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Interview No. 282 University of Texas at El Paso ScholarWorks@UTEP Combined Interviews Institute of Oral History 12-1976 Interview no. 282 George E. Barnhart Follow this and additional works at: https://scholarworks.utep.edu/interviews Part of the Oral History Commons, and the Social and Behavioral Sciences Commons Recommended Citation Interview with George E. Barnhart by Carlos Tapia, 1976, "Interview no. 282," Institute of Oral History, University of Texas at El Paso. This Article is brought to you for free and open access by the Institute of Oral History at ScholarWorks@UTEP. It has been accepted for inclusion in Combined Interviews by an authorized administrator of ScholarWorks@UTEP. For more information, please contact [email protected]. UNIVERSITYOFTEXAS AT EL PASC INSTITUTEOFOR.AL HISTORY II.ITERVIEIdEE: GeorqeE. Barnhart INTERVIEI.IER: CarlosTaPia PROJECT: Class proiect DATEOF II'ITERVIEI'I: DecemberI 976 TERI''6OF USE: Unrestricted TAPENO.: 282 T:IAI'ISCRIPTI.iO.: 282 TRAIISCRISER: DATETRA|'ISCRIBED: BIOGRAPHICALSYiiOPSIS OF INTERVIEI'IEE: 01d-time E] Pasoresident. SUI{I}trRYOF I|'ITER\IIEI,I: j I ett and BioqraPhy;the MexicanRevol ution; Prohbi tion ; J'imGi JudgeRoy Bean' John|.lesleY Hardin; tf," O.pt.ssion; Worldl'lar II; 50 minutes I4 pages 'interview { Oral History with Mr- GeorgeE. Barnhart, interviewedby Carlos Tapia in December1976" ) T: Mr. Barnhar{wherewere you born and when? B: hlestBends, Okl ahoma. T: Whatwas the date? B: We]l, it's supposedto be February24, 1896. Theydidn't keepany records back in themdays. I had to checkback and I got two or three different [dates, but] that's the one I usedto look for a job. T: Whatwas your father's occupation? B: We'll,originally he wasa rancher,but then later on he wasa telegraph operator--railroad. T: Wheredid you growup, Mr. Barnhart? B: All over Texas,pdrt of NewlGxico. T: Youmentioned that your father madefrequent trips into M6xicowhen you werea child. B: Well, he spenta lot of time in Mdxico. T: Wheredid you attend schooland howlong did you stay in school? B: I^Jell,vle were on the moveall the time. I wasborn in the Indian Temitory, Oklahoma.Now, originally rry folks werefrom downaround Austin and SanAntonio, and then my grandfatherwent down into the Big Bend,ranching down there. Fromthere my father went up to Oklahoma, and that's whereI wasborn. Theywas married up there and he wentback to lvldxicoagain. Originally he wasdown there in Chihuahuastate, but for a time he wentdown into Sonora,Hermos'ill0. I don't remembertoo muchabout him whenI waslittle. He opentmuch of his time downthere. Later on, why, we moveddown into SouthTexas. I went to school down there for a little whi'le, then he wentback to workon the railroad; and from then on, we wasjust on the noveall the time, practica'lly. Welived BARNHART Page2 in Alpine morethan any other place. we lived in Marfa, [and] from then on we lived in various little pumpstations up anddown the road. Theschooling I got, mostly I got it at home. T: So you're mostly self-educated,then? B: [^lell,my mother was an ex-schoolteacher,and she give meless6ns. And I reada wholelot. T: Yeah, I see by the booksyou haue. B: Yes,we1l, whenI waslittle, a real small kid, I read Victor Hugo,s Les Miserablesthrough and through--I guessthree or four times, just like that. But then as far as schooling,I got up to maybethe fourth or fifth,-grade, andthat was it. T: Couldyou tell meabout your occupations,the jobs you'veheld? B: Well, my father traded fcr a little rinch up in NewMexico, Cloudcroft; Eightnil&e Canyon,north of JamesCanyon. And he took meuupthere with him to look after it, after he traded for it. Andthen later on, why, for a little while the family wasup there, but they all left. I stayed up there on the ranchby myselfuntil I got a job in town for a while, firing the townlighting plant. Andwell, that playedout, andmy father traded the ranch out for d don't rememberwhat, and I cometo El Paso lookingfor a job. Whatyear was that? .19.|6, 0h, I cometo El Pasoin I guess. So you musthave seen part of the MexicanRevolution. Yes, I seenquite a bit of it. Whatcan you tell meabout it, its effects here in El Paso? l,,lell,like I told_'youbefore, I mamiedinto a family that wasmixed up BARNHART Page3 in the Revolution. T: Youmentioned something about Pascual 0rozco, I believe? B: Pascual0rozco was a close friend of my father whenboth of themwere young,down in Chihuahuastate--principally down in 0jinagaand clear down to Parral. T: Canyou tell meany interesting stories your father might havetold you aboutPascual ? B: He told mea wholelot. (Laughter) Ooyou want'it? T: Sure. B: He was in with Pascualand somemore of themover on the other side. Theygot to the point to wherethe Mexicangovernment wanted them pretty bad, but they couldn't get them. T: Youmentioned something about the deathof Pascual0rozco. B: Pascual0rozco was killed on this side, down[on] the border, belowhere. T: By whomwas he killed? He wasa prisoner over here, and he just walkedout. Theywasnlt keeping too close a watchover him. He and someof his followers just walkedoff one day and took off downhere--got to El Pasoand took downthe river. Now,that's the story I got on it. I readhalf a dozenstories, but I'm talking aboutthe wayI got it at the time. Therewas some ranchers down there, Americanranchers, that had someinterests over in lvlSxicoand were friends of Pascual. Now,he wentdown to the ranchlooking for horses, but the rancherwasn't there; he wasin Sierra Blanca,I believe, but I'm not sure. It's beenso long ago. Thecow punchers down there thought they wasa bunchof raiders, horse;thieves,[so] they started to fight and killed them. Andwhen the headman,i the owner,got back, he took it pretty BARNHART Page4 hard, so I understand. Itl-wasa goodfriend of his, his best friend, that they killed. That's the story we got. T: hlasthere a lot of raiding doneby the Mexicansin Texasdown along the Big Bend? Youtold meyou lived there. Irlerethere a lot of Mexican raids into Texasto steil horses? B: 0h, yes, there wasraidsioh, boyi After the Revolutionstarted, Ves, there was. I wasjust a little kid at the time, of course--ayoung teenager--butI can rememberthe raiding up there. I rememberone t{,me in particular, they raidedup within a fewmiles of Alpine, andthe youngfederal officer was downtrying to raise a posse to go after them. I iure wantEilto go, but I wasa little kid. T: Wasthere any raids doneby Americansinto Mdxico? B: Into Fl6xico?t^lell, that part, I donlt know. Maybethere was, I don't know. It waspretty wild over on the other side, anddown there in 0jinaga, that was pretty roughback in themdays; and they comeacross on the raids. As far as raidingdonefromthis side, I don't think so. 0f course, there vvassome of that donebefore the Revolutionbroke loose; but after the Revolution...therewas times whenthey crossedover from this side into Mdxico,but I can't rememberthe details. Doyou rememberVil'la whenhe cameinto Judrez? !'lell, I didn't meethim personallyof anythinglike that, [but] sure, I definitely knewabout it. T: Did you ever cross into Judrezwhile Villa wasthere? B: No, I stayedout of JuSrezwhile Villa wasthere. T: Doyou recall the raid on Columbus? B: 0h, yes; definitely. BARNHART Page 5 T: trlhatwere your feelings about it, or the generalpopu'lar feeling? B: [,lell, I can't quite recall. I believe I wasin NewMexfco when that raid took place, and there wasquite a lot of excitementabout it. Short of that, I don't recall. T: Doyou rememberthe l9'18Span'ish Flu epidemicthat occurredhere fn El Paso? B: Well,very dimly. I can't recall muchabout it. I knowit wasbad. That is aboutas far backas I can recall. T. Howabout World War I? Doyou reca11anything that happenedduring WorldHar I? D. Well, it's so far back,it's hardto recall. t. Doyou recall Prohibition? Youtold mesome stories aboutProhib'ition here in El Paso,when they bannedliquor here in the U.S. Youtold me there wasa lot of smugg'lingfrom M6xicohere. B: 0h, yes, there was. Therewas lots of smuggling,fights, l_un{ battles downalong the river. I can't rememberthe names,Fr{ the worst fight I ever rememberLnu{, someof the boyswas close relatives of some of the higher-upsdown at the'couithouse,andfone of themZwaskilled. Oneof my friends wasin that bunch,and he told meafterwards that he wasneverin sucha t'ight place 'in his I ife. He hadbeen through World l,larI, andhe hadn't seenanything like that downthere. Theywas all aroundthem, and it seemedthat they wasshooting at themfrom three or four feet awaysometimes. They managed to get out, and then they got bawledout goodfor leaving the deadone there. T: Youtold mesomething about a sheriff namedJim G'illett, I believe. B: lrlell, Jim Gillett wasa townmarshall here at one time. Himand my BARNI-IART Page 5 father comefrom the samepart of the countrydown there in Austin, San Antonio- Jim Gillett ioined the TexasRangers and later on left themto work for the railroad. I believe he left there and cameto El Pasoto take over as townmarshall. Andwhen I remembenhim, he wasan old... getting alongin years, a fairly o1dman then downat Marfa. And,well, he wasa big shot in a bankdown there, /TromTa big ranchfamily. My father wasagent there with the railroad. Sometimesthey'd get together andtalk for old times. That's the wayI got to knowhim by sight; I was a little kid. T. t. Youtold methat he wascredited with tamingEl Paso. B: l,'|el'|,that's what they said.
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