COLORADO COLLEGE ARCHIVES 1989 ORAL HISTORY TAPE INDEX R-62

CARLE, GERALD C., 1923- Colorado College asst. football coach, head basketball and baseball coach, 1948-1951 Colorado College head football coach and Director of Athletics, 1957-82 Colorado College head football coach, 1982-1989 Professor of Physical Education, 1961-1990

Tape 1, side 1

How Carle came to CC in 1948 - Had just graduated from Northwestern University - Juan Reid primarily responsible for first contact with CC - Reid was member of NCAA basketball selection committee, as was Dutch Lomborg, Carle's basketball coach at Northwestern University - Committee was involved in a flap over BYU playing on Sunday -Reid mentioned to Lomborg that CC was looking for an assistant football coach and head basketball coach, and Dutch mentioned Carle's name - Reid brought Carle out for an interview in July and offered the job to him

First impressions of team and CC facilities upon arrival - Had told his wife how green and gorgeous Colorado Springs was - Drove from Chicago across dry prairies and finally saw green oasis when they reached Colorado Springs - Had never been around a small college setting, and was so thrilled to be a part of it that he never evaluated the facilities - Washburn Field had a nice stadium that seated 6000-6500 - Young football players were also impressive - Everything was a learning process for Carle -Quite a few World War Two veterans on CC team - Roy Lilja and Rock Lundborg had played football with Carle at University of Minnesota before the war: they were as old as he was - Bob Pringle, Guy Carsons as old or older than Carle

Allison Binns style as football coach - Tough disciplinarian; only way to do it was his way - astute coach, fostered innovation - Binns attracted attention of Frank Leahy from Notre Dame, who brought his coaching clinic to CC for two summers - 125 coaches came from all over the country - Binns only at CC three years - Second year won Rocky Mountain Conference: 6-3 record - Third year record 9-1, lost only to CSU - Players remember Binns at reunions - Binns and Carle were the only two on football coaching staff - Players played both offense and defense in those days: no platoon system - About 40 went out for football - Freshmen were not eligible for varsity, so there were some partimers who assisted with Freshman team - Ronny Ivans, Bill Story, --- Duggan

Basketball and Cossitt Hall - Carle followed the footsteps of Reid, who had coached basketball in 1947-48 - Played at City Auditorium, but practiced at Cossitt Hall - CC was part of double header, played after high school game - Sometimes due to schedule conflicts had to play at Cossitt Hall - Smaller than regulation size - This not unusual for gyms in those days - Cossitt Hall description: - east and west stands were balcony stands, with permanent seats for 300 - Sometimes put bleachers on the floor - Circle drive and small parking area in front of building - Offices were in east side of building to right of entry - Main office was where secretary sat and athletic director - Little office in back with window overlooking gym was head football coach's office - One big office was shared by hockey coach (Thompson) and basketball and baseball coach (Carle) - This was all the staff they had - All other sports handled parttime by faculty members - Only one locker room in Cossitt, downstairs at ground level: used by all sports - Football was over before basketball started, etc. - Physical education locker room was above on ground level of gymnasium - Cossitt had three levels: upper level for offices, display area for trophies, dining hall - Lower gymnasium level had classroom off to left, and at end of hall was PE locker room, used later for swimming pool locker room - Lowest level was athlete's locker room, Roosevelt Collins training room and equipment storage area - When built in 1915, Cossitt was considered best facility in the Rocikes - Classroom off gymnasium was used later by ROTC - Had full walk-in vault

Sports financing prior to 1951 - Hockey fees were collected at Broadmoor rink - Basketball charged admission, even at City Auditorium - A guy named Bill Page, who worked for Colorado Springs National Bank, handled most of cashier details; was still doing it in 1957 - Football was the other campus revenue sport - Washburn Field only field in the city: it was also used by Colorado Springs High School and St. Mary's High - It was far to drive to other games in the state, and there was no television, so games at CC drew crowds of 6000 plus - CC was the number one focus in the community - CC more prominent in athletics in those days - Concession stands were run by Joe Reich of Village Inn

Carle's recall to Marines during Korean War - Recalled in 1951, but Marines let him finish basketball season before he left - Two and one half years in the Marines - He then went to Iowa State as one of assistant football coaches - Allison Binns resigned from CC in 1951, so Bill Heiss was brought in as football coach and Red Eastlack became basketball coach

Carle's return to CC in 1957 as Athletics Director and head football coach - Had been fired at Iowa State because they couldn't win - Got call from Lew Worner, then dean of the College - Carle jumped at chance to be considered for Athletics Director job - Announcement came through just before Christmas of his acceptance - Arrived January 15, 1957 - Went through orientation period, with Juan Reid especially helpful - First hullabaloo was with eligibility rules on NCAA hockey - CC won championship that year - Eligibility of two Michigan U players questioned - Otis Barnes was faculty representative to NCAA - The issue raised a stink in the national press

Tape 1, side 2

- Difficult to handle for a new Athletic Director - Reid ran all the NCAA tourneys for many years - When fuss was over, Michigan didn't play CC for a couple of years - Not as many sports in those days, so Carle's job was much less demanding - Secretary was the "boss" and really knew the ropes - All coaches were close and helped each other out - More camaraderie - Could make decision without running it through every committee on campus - Athletic Department was separate entity in those days - Did not get funds from regular college budget - Had to live on income from gate receipts and assessment of student fees of about $10-12 per student - Department kept its own books - With rising costs and shrinking gate fees, Athletic Department finally went under regular college budget (Carle can't remember what year) - Athletics Board chairman was faculty member - Athletics Board included Board of Trustees members, represented by Bob Burkhardt, Athletics Director, President - Didn't come under faculty scrutiny exactly as they do now: Athletics Board ran athletics program, and Carle had to answer to them

President Benezet's role in athletics policy changes - Structure of support of athletics came not from college but from Colorado College Association, a downtown support group that raised funds both for football and basketball scholarships - El Pomar Foundation supported hockey scholarships - Russ de Fries, Joel Webb, Bob Burkhardt, were core of group - Had auto raffle to pay for training table -Particularly active in hockey program - When Benezet came, he was in Kansas City on his way here and read in paper that local booster group was presenting CC hockey coach with new station wagon to honor his success -Benezet very upset by this: didn't want to run this kind of a college - NCAA was also getting stronger and setting down new rules at this time - Benezet severed the relationships between the college and the Colorado College Association about 1957 - College then instituted a program to provide scholarships to whole hockey team, funded by El Pomar - Jeff Sauer was one of first recipients - Got tuition, room, board and $15 a month to spend - This all happened as male enrollment took off, men who were able to pay their own way - Up to that time athletic scholarships were really to support the presence of men in a female dominant campus enrollment - About the same time as the full hockey scholarship program, the college eliminated tuition waiver scholarships for football and basketball - Image of what we were to be approached what NCAA Division Three image would later be: aid based on need

Football: pullout from the Rocky Mountain Conference - Above changes hurt football and CC could no longer compete in Rocky Mountain Conference - After CC pulled out circa 1965, scheduling became a problem - Small church-related colleges in Nebraska dn Kansas were logical people to contact - We scheduled Doane, Hastings, Nebraska Wesleyan, Concordia, etc. - This was the time we stopped competing with any Colorado school except the School of Mines, based on our traditional long rivalry with them - When Worner became president, we ceased playing Mines for 8-9 years because it was no longer a rivalry - Someone is going to have to take a hard look at this problem again

Hockey - There were changes in NCAA rules about the use of Canadian players - Benezet was a firm believer in the Olympic movement: felt hockey scholarships should be given to American players - This hurt CC program - Only later did NCAA take stiffer look at eligibility of Canadians and limit numbers - CC brought in seven scholarship players a year for a total of 22 full scholarships - Benezet wanted a percentage to be American: this was when Jeff Sauer, John Simus, Ken Hanson came to CC - Denver, North Dakota, Michigan schools were mostly Canadians, but we became 80-90% Americans - New NCAA rules had an impact on our program - With this change in philosophy we had to struggle to regain some of the prestige we had lost

Effects of expansion of sports programs - As number of sports grew, it became more difficult to handle both jobs of Athletic Director and football coach - Before arrival of women's sports job wasn't so bad -El Pomar sports center built with no thought that women would ever need to use building - Title IX requirements had not yet arrived - Betty Young and Lois Handley thrilled to have Cossitt Hall for women's physical education - Big hew and cry suddenly for dressing rooms for women and offices for women's sports coaches -Luckily space existed in El Pomar to expand department - Had to split time on basketball court - It got to point where football was secondary to Carle and administration was primary

Swimming Pool (1964) and Ice Rink (1966) and El Pomar (1970) - Gerald Schlessman contributed to make pool a reality, and initiated the idea with Lew Worner - Carle was not in on initial negotiations with high-level staff - At that time there was no thought of a sports center per se - Temporary locker room for new swimming pool was in Cossitt - About same time Ed Honnen got involved with situating ice rink - First rink had no walls, was very cold - There were some thoughts about extending to the west eventually - Carle worked closely with and sometimes battled architects for proposed sports center - Juan Reid on committee too - El Pomar Sports Center dedicated 1970 - Hindsight would have dictated design changes - Washburn Field, tennis courts, Stewart Field redesigned at same time - Football field moved to north - West stands came down to make room for tennis courts - New press box built on east side - One problem of building was foundation on Pierre Shale - Posed challenge to architect - Football locker room has crack in floor, not serious

Title IX and growth of women's sports - Sit-in demanded women's locker room in El Pomar: Carle blocked this out of his mind - Good cooperation in college effort to incorporate women's sports - So lucky that extra space existed in El Pomar to satisfy needs - Support given by administration to look for people to run women's sports - Title IX required that equality had to be shown in women's sports (i.e. Division I hockey required a female Division I sport) - Dollars and cents dictated that women's soccer rather than women's basketball would be this sport

Tape 2, Side 1

- Decision not too tough: Steve Paul had already organized women's soccer on a club basis - Laura Golden already had basketball going - Already had women's swimming, ski team, tennis, and some women's track, which never became extensive - When NCAA demanded equitable women's sport, Dick Taber was already Athletic Director - Soccer needed fewer scholarships and travel, and opportunity for success seemed more likely than basketball - Success of women's soccer is self-evident - Biggest problem with so many sports is sharing of facilities, such as when teams would dine

Intramurals - Scheduling problem did not give much time to intramurals - Intramurals grew greatly in 1970's and 1980's - In 1948 had teams in softball, basketball and track, with faculty involved; also swimming scheduled at YMCA - Intramural hockey then was ice-carnival weekend - New facilities promoted more interest in intramurals - Biggest intramural growth has been in men's, women's and club ice hockey - Ted Castaneda has done tremendous job with intramural program

Effects of Block Plan on football - Carle and Athletic Department were opposed to Block Plan at the beginning - Question: How could athletics function on Block Plan? - Lew Worner had to come over and persuade Athletic Department to support plan - Carle now thinks Block Plan is best thing that has happened to CC in years, though it does pose some problems with scheduling and travel commitments - Money is a factor - If you bus, you must miss some school - Carle has left kids home from football trips at times because they needed to be in class - At first made an effort to travel during block break, but when kids have to prepare for tests at end of block, it is very difficult to concentrate on sufficient football practice - Often practiced at night on Wednesdays - Had to leave on Thursday to travel - Finally decided it is better to play at home on block break - More practice time and better rested players - Only disadvantage: didn't draw spectators - Any new coach has a temporary problem adjusting to the block system

Memorable football seasons and players - All players are so different it is difficult to say - During the 1960's everyone had long hair: Carle ordered haircuts but did not have the revolt other schools had - Drug culture years were stressful: urgency by team to set high standards - You tend to remember tough seasons over winning ones - Does remember individuals over the years, Steve Sabol for example - Sabol was not just one man advertising agency for himself as some thought - Rather, promoted CC football - A great player, last Rocky Mountain Conference all- conference fullback selection - Nationally ranked among top 3 or 4 punters; learned on his own - If you surround yourself with good people, you can win - The 1970's were a period of great kids - Randy Bobier, Bruce Kolbezen, Ernie Jones, Ed Smith, Terry Hoadley, Darryl Crawford, Bob Hall, Dave Hall, Gary Linsin - When fund raising for Carle weight room was underway, these young men took hold of that project along with George Lyon and made it a reality - Bob Blaik, Jr., and Dean Ledger worked endless hours too - Games Carle remembers well - Adams State, with 8-0 record, came over expecting to win RMC championship about 1961-62 - Adams state had invited everyone to victory celebration at Broadmoor - But CC beat them 48-7 and dashed their hopes - Our players Chuck Herring, Gary Richardson, Tony Salito really got after them - Also remembers 1975 playoff game against Milsaps - Great game, a shame either team had to lose - Even 1989's unsuccessful team made him as proud as of any group, because they didn't quit - You always want to win, but when everything is based on win or lose, that builds some problems with individuals and oneself - Give it your best shot, and you can hold your head high, win or lose - The only guy you can never fool is yourself

Thoughts on his career - Carle doesn't feel he is a record holder with 33 years in one job - Not everyone has this opportunity - Tenure and school philosophy of sports have helped - Would like to feel that his contributions to these young men certainly could have been experienced with anybody else, but "as long as I felt I could give a contribution, it wasn't just a job" - When it became just a job, it was time for someone else to take over - Loved coaching football best; too much else to do as Athletic Directorship crowded in on that - Also felt that President Riley ought to have his own man as Athletic Director - Wrote to Worner prior to Riley's arrival and asked that he be relieved as Athletic Director

Retirement - Has asked to coach golf next year - Feels golf will fill the void of leaving the football job - Summary of career: "If I had my choice of any place in America, I would pick CC; the people and players are wonderful. I never had a job, was just doing something I loved to do. I have been the luckiest individual of any coach any place."