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José María Aznar Interviews Interview with Aznar in Onda Cero on the occasion of the publication of ‘Memorias I’, 27.11.2012 “There are some rules in our Constitution and those rules must be complied with and respected. You can consider the amendment of the Constitution but following the rules, nothing but the rules”. Carlos Herrera (CH): Dear president Aznar, good morning. José María Aznar (JMA): Good morning to you, Carlos CH: You are today all over the media. You memoirs have raised a lot of attention. JMA: I am very pleased. People are very kind and so are the media. CH: The first volume of memoirs, let’s say, it’s the most entertaining to write. JMA: I will tell you when I write the second one, because I don’t know yet. But to be honest, writing this book has been a wonderful experience. Books always take a lot of work; you have to devote time to them, but it always pays off. When I write the second one I will be able to honestly answer your question. CH: Specialists on memoirs writing say that one must never start by writing the beginning but that one must write a chapter that it is especially interesting. You have done that as a prologue, and you have done it with two of your most difficult decisions of your political life. The first one, retiring from politics after eight years of government. And secondly, nominating as successor the person you thought was best suited for the position. Let’s remember that this decision it’s not formally a handpick. That is, you propose and the party chooses. For what I know the party mainly falls for the secretary general of the party at the moment. Let’s address these two decisions. The first one, retiring from government, something which by the way I thought you would never do, why did you do it? JMA: By sheer conviction. I believe that a period of eight years; and if legislatures where to last five years, it would have been ten years , that is ten years , two terms as head of government I think are enough. I believe that, theoretically, strengthens the country institutions. I think countries are stronger when its institutions are better. I think countries get complicated when institutions are weak or when they are damaged. Thus, contributing to institutional strengthening is one of the most important duties of a politician Secondly, it seems to me that , after a few years in government , probably, what happens it is that you tend to be a hindrance rather than an active engine, an engine of reforms. And therefore that should be avoided, thinking that there might be other and better people. The feeling that you are somehow inevitable… But the world can still move around perfectly without you. What is needed is for other people to interpret an idea, a policy. But that decision was taken in a moment of vital fulfillment. My life was fulfilled at that time. 51 years old, with political experience, enjoying political success, with good prospects for a third reelection; it’s a decision hard to stick to. ‘Memorias I’.‐ Interview in Onda Cero 1 José María Aznar Interviews The second part is that I had to choose from a group of people perfectly capable of taking care of the issue, and moreover, with plenty of guarantees. And there is the part in which you keep asking yourself: Is it going to work? Is this the right decision? These are the questions any responsible person must ask himself. And this is one of the most important decisions I have ever taken. CH: What made you think, firstly, that Rodrigo Rato was a good candidate to succeed you, and then rectify that decision and conclude that he was not the right one? JMA: I think that Rodrigo Rato was considered, at that time, as the natural successor, let’s put it that way. He was the person with more political weight and with the biggest political projection for the future. And , moreover, he had centered his political actions in very effective parliamentary terms , and also he had been a decisive subject and actor in the achievement of the great objective and success of Spain , which was to become a member an Eurozone member from the very beginning. And he was responsible for the best years the Spanish economy enjoyed in decades. Thus, he was the best candidate. At the time I still believed in the idea of the natural successor. And I spoke with him about it, but he turned me down twice. So I had to look for other people. And why did he turn down my offer? Well, that is a decision only Rodrigo Rato knows. I did not want to break the party’s hierarchy. I believe that is very important. The People’s Party was back then a well structured party and still is. A party with very clear lines and endowed with very vocal leaderships vis‐à‐vis the militants. And Rodrigo Rato did not fulfill those requirements. It wasn’t meant to be and there were other worthy candidates. CH: But there was a moment in which Rodrigo Rato said “I reconsider what I have said to you and I think that I would accept that position if you offer it to me”. JMA: Yes. But the the circumstances at that time had already changed. At that time I thought that I ought to pick a person who provides more advantages than disadvantages. And when Rodrigo Rato reconsidered his decision, I thought that Mariano Rajoy provides more advantages than Rodrigo Rato. CH: Yesterday, Rato attended the presentation of your memoirs and sat at the front row. JMA: Yes, and I thank him very much for coming. CH: Did he comment something to you about this passage? JMA: No, not at all. CH: It seems that only a distant relationship remained between you JMA: Well, we had been friends were for 25 years, and as I explain in the book, our parents were friends, we were friends, our families were friends and we had a very close relationship. But this things happen. But not from me. I was not disappointed. I had to make a decision, I had to make a proposal and I behaved conscientiously, thinking it was in Spain’s best interest. If today you check the newspapers of that time, they say I made the right decision. If I go to the media today, the situation is a bit more complicated. ‘Memorias I’.‐ Interview in Onda Cero 2 José María Aznar Interviews CH: You say that you have tried to avoid the anecdotal in your book. Are you more categorical than anecdotical? If you slip one, maybe is not that much of an anecdote. You were flying behind the King´s plane to a summit or a meeting. JMA: As a matter of fact I was flying ahead of the King’s plane, not behind. The Ibero‐ American Summit is the only moment in which the Spanish Prime Minister and the King of Spain coincide abroad. And therefore, protocol mandates that the Prime Minister must arrive first and welcome the King. Thus , the Prime Minister’s plan flies ahead, whereas the King’s plane goes behind. When the incident you were about to mention occurred, we stayed behind due to technical difficulties and the King arrived first. CH: Your plane was leaking oil and you called the King’s plane and you tell the Head of State, “If something happens, I left here a blue notebook with the name of the person which I believe should be the one to carry this thing through”. Did you really believe your blue notebook could withstand a major plane crash? JMA: Why not? I believed the forced landing would eventually not take place. And secondly, I believe that interesting lost notebooks, if you look for them carefully, can always be found. CH: Do you keep those notebooks? JMA: Yes, yes. Of course I keep them; I have lots of blue notebooks. CH: And how did you write down “I want Mariano Rajoy to be my successor”? JMA: One page of the notebook had a name written on it, as simple as that. CH: You describe no melancholy in these memoirs. I mean, you have fond memories of your journey through regional politics even though sometimes regional committees did not greet you with the enthusiasm you expected. Is this true? JMA: No. There is no melancholy. Because melancholy leads nowhere. I have fond memories which become fonder with the passage of time. Bear in mind that, this kind of books, particularly in the situation I had to live through, are usually written in the first year after leaving government. But I haven’t. I have taken eight years to write this book. There can be no place for melancholy. On the contrary, there is room for good memories, and looking at things from a distance gives you more perspective and helps you to get to the point. There is no point in looking back, I am very “Churchillian” on this matter. Don’t look back, look ahead, do not become entangled in the little things, always have great goals and ambitions to accomplish in the future. CH: These memoirs are more rational than passionate. With this I mean that you don’t settle scores with anyone, you don’t talk negatively about anyone. Of course this causes some disappointment because you don’t even mention Felipe Gonzalez.

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