7 Aug 1996 Ministerial Statement 2083

WEDNESDAY, 7 AUGUST 1996 take all possible action to expedite their implementation and resist all calls for the control measures to be watered down or abandoned. Mr SPEAKER (Hon. N. J. Turner, Nicklin) read prayers and took the chair at 9.30 a.m. Gun Control Laws From Mr McElligott (10 signatories) PETITIONS requesting the House to implement the The Clerk announced the receipt of the agreement for national uniform gun laws to its following petitions— fullest extent in passing new legislation without watering down the new gun control laws.

Gun Control Laws Noise Barriers, Pacific Highway From Mr Campbell (1,743 signatories) requesting the House to provide (a) practical From Ms Spence (59 signatories) gun legislation that recognises those with requesting the House to instruct the Transport legitimate reasons to possess firearms, (b) Minister to engage in meaningful discussions increased resources and support for people with residents who will face increased noise with mental illness, (c) increased restrictions on and air pollution as a result of the freeway violence in movies, videos, games and widening. Furthermore the residents request Internet, (d) criminal justice system with that the Government construct the promised appropriate sentencing, compensation for noise abatement fences without further delay. victims, and rehabilitation for offenders, (e) preventative education in schools and Compulsory Third-party Insurance community and (f) increased media Premiums accountability—with balanced reporting of violence. From Mrs Woodgate (15 signatories) requesting the House to repeal the increase to compulsory third-party insurance premiums. State and Local Government Petitions received. Referendums

From Mr Gilmore (5 signatories) PAPER requesting the House to enact a legislation provision, subsequently to be entrenched in The following paper was laid on the the Constitution of Queensland, whereby a table— designated number of petitioners, in an Attorney-General and Minister for Justice (Mr approved manner and within a set time span, Beanland)— shall require the elected Parliament of Report of the Queensland Law Reform Queensland or, in the case of a local Society entitled "Assisted and Substituted government the elected council concerned, to Decisions" (Volumes 1, 2, 3). hold a State or local government referendum as applicable, whereby citizens may assent or dissent to any existing law or regulation, or MINISTERIAL STATEMENT proposed law or regulation, the decision of the Queensland Constitution majority of those voting in such a referendum Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers being binding on the elected Government Paradise—Premier) (9.34 a.m.), by leave: I concerned. need to correct another disgracefully biased report that appeared today in the Labor Penalties and Sentences Party's official mouthpiece, the Courier-Mail. Today the Opposition "coalition", the Courier- From Mr Laming (1,828 signatories) Mail and the Labor Party, sinks to new depths requesting the House give longer sentences to by elevating the opinion of one person, whose criminals. views happen to suit its clear political purpose, to the status of fact, while it skates over and summarily dismisses several contrary Gun Control Laws interpretations on a constitutional issue from a From Mr Laming (18 signatories) range of official Government legal advisers, requesting the House to demonstrate its firm and a pre-eminent international expert. Rarely support for uniform national gun laws and to have I seen such a disgracefully biased beat- 2084 Ministerial Statement 7 Aug 1996 up, even by the masters of the biased political "Exceptionally, statements, including beat-up, the Courier-Mail. statements on future business, have Mr Welford interjected. been permitted by the Speaker, in urgent circumstances and with the leave of the Mr BORBIDGE: The honourable House . . ." member knows all about it. How did he know that the Courier-Mail approached us? The I made my ruling before. Obviously the member knows all about it. honourable member for Ashgrove was distracted and did not hear me when I ruled Mr Welford interjected. the previous point of order out of order Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the because the Premier was actually referring to member for Everton under Standing Order the article and not to the Bill. I now call the 123A. Premier. Mr BORBIDGE: The issue concerns Mr BORBIDGE: This solitary opinion whether or not a section of the Queensland was then elevated to the rank of fact for the Constitution is entrenched. A local academic rest of the report. The facts are these—and it constitutional lawyer—— is a disgrace that I have to stand in this House Mr MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of and state them, because they should have order. I draw attention to the fact that the been there for all to read in the Courier-Mail Premier is talking about legislation before the this morning—the element of the Constitution House. referred to was, in the opinion of the Electoral and Administrative Review Commission in its Mr BORBIDGE: No, I am not. report on the Queensland Constitution Mr MACKENROTH: Yes, he is. published in August 1993, not validly entrenched. This was not a sudden conclusion Mr SPEAKER: Order! I rule that the by EARC. When the commission reported on Premier is referring to the article in the Courier- the Electoral Act in 1991 it in fact attached an Mail and not to the actual Bill. opinion from the Crown Solicitor indicating that Mr BORBIDGE: Yesterday a local section 14 of the Constitution was not properly academic constitutional lawyer suggested to entrenched by section 53. the Courier-Mail that the element of the For the information of honourable Constitution was properly entrenched and that members, I quote from that advice, which was the effect of legislative action by the readily available to the Courier-Mail— Government was so wrong in law that it would lead to the invalidation of that legislative "Section 14 of the Constitution Act action. 1867-1988, insofar as it purports to entrench the power of appointment of Mr FOURAS: I rise to a point of order. public servants in the Executive Council is Mr BORBIDGE: Does the honourable ineffective to achieve its object, the member not want me to reply to the Courier- reason being that it is not a law Mail? 'respecting the Constitution powers and Mr FOURAS: My point of order is that procedures of the Legislature' within the the Premier is now talking about matters that meaning of section 5 of the Colonial Laws are currently before the House. It has always Validity Act 1865." been the practice in this House to rule that out The Crown Solicitor advised that the proper of order. Are we to now presume that procedure for the resolution of the matter was members can talk about matters before the for the Government to seek a declaration from House? the Supreme Court. In the 1993 EARC report Honourable members interjected. on the Constitution, there was actually a thinly veiled criticism of the then Government for not Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am listening to addressing that situation. EARC stated— the point of order. "Nothing has been done to resolve Mr FOURAS: The practice in this House the uncertainty." has been that, when legislation is before the House, members cannot debate aspects of The advice was again referred to in the that legislation. The Premier would be 1993 report on the Constitution. However, we debating one aspect of that legislation and it is were not content to rest on that advice. We totally out of order. sought further advice from the Crown Solicitor, the Solicitor General, and Professor John Mr SPEAKER: Order! Erskine May, Finnis, the acknowledged international page 298, states— constitutional law expert who has been 7 Aug 1996 Ministerial Statement 2085 retained for many years by Governments from the Commonwealth Budget, which will be both sides of politics. brought down on 20 August. The unanimous advice given to the The former Labor Government did the Government—unanimous advice—was that people of Queensland no favours with its section 14 was not validly entrenched and Budget blow-out and, unfortunately, the new could be repealed by an ordinary Act of the coalition Governments here and in Canberra Parliament, by definition, without the need for have been left to pick up the pieces. The a referendum. In fact, Professor John Finniss State Budget will be followed by Estimates said section 53 was a nullity as far as its ability committee hearings, which will commence on to entrench section 14 was concerned; that it 17 September and conclude on 26 was "completely ineffective" whether or not September. any Bill had been passed or presented relative It is proposed to bring down the 1997-98 to section 14. Budget in May 1997, therefore returning to a While the call from the Courier-Mail to my May Budget cycle. This will give departments a office to address this issue came early better basis for planning for the coming year yesterday evening, within a very short time and give business and the public generally a that newspaper had the core of the above clear, early indication of the Government's available to it. There is, of course, some irony plans. In this way the Queensland in the fact that the man responsible for some Government has taken the responsible of the most disgraceful so-called reportage on approach to the Budget process. We were not certain matters in recent days was, in fact, the prepared to doctor up some half-baked chairman of EARC at the time of the 1993 statement in May when we faced severe cuts report on the Constitution. He would have in our funding from the Commonwealth been keenly aware of the substance of the Government. Our decision has been arguments in relation to the State's ability to recognised by most in the business seek redress before the courts or simply via community as a responsible action. legislation without the need of a referendum. I also feel the need to respond to the This, by the way, was clearly outlined by me in misinformed comments by Dr Neal Ryan, a a recent speech to this House. Perhaps that is lecturer in public policy at the Queensland why we saw some pinch-hitters brought in. I University of Technology. His comments in again say that this is one of the most today's Courier-Mail make me seriously doubt disgraceful of all the many beat-ups the some of the standards held by our academic Courier-Mail perpetrates now almost daily. community. What surprised me is that at no I table for the information of honourable time did Dr Ryan actually contact me or the members, and for the Courier-Mail, relevant Treasury to get the real picture. What also EARC reports. surprised me is that someone who has pretensions to comment on economic matters became so confused between three different MINISTERIAL STATEMENT accounting systems. The fact is: I felt I had seen Dr Ryan's comments before, and then I State Budget realised where—I had seen them in Hon. J. M. SHELDON (Caloundra— Opposition press releases. In fact, Dr Ryan's Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for comments seemed a direct lift from Mr The Arts) (9.42 a.m.), by leave: The change in Beattie's press release. One could quote it ad Government, both State and Federally, this infinitum. year has impacted on the normal timing of the Mr Beattie: Oh! State Budget. In lieu of a May Budget, it was Mrs SHELDON: Let me point out some proposed to have a May economic statement. of the facts for Dr Ryan and the Labor Party. I This plan was cancelled when it became clear know that Pete does not understand this, but I that the Commonwealth intended to will try to help him. There are three major substantially cut funding to the States. systems for evaluating State Government Because of uncertainty regarding the size and finances: the cash accounting system, which nature of the cuts, a May economic statement the Government currently reports on; the was not feasible. Government financial statistics, which the ABS Cabinet has decided that the Queensland uses; and the accrual accounting system, State Budget will be presented to Parliament which most Governments, including ours, are on Tuesday, 10 September. This date will now moving towards. enable the Government to give adequate Unfortunately, Dr Ryan became confused consideration in the Budget to the impact of and tried to compare GFS figures with accrual 2086 Ministerial Statement 7 Aug 1996 accounting figures. Had he asked for Queensland Government faces an underlying information, the Treasury could have provided deficit of $185m for 1995-96 and $240m in him with the facts. The facts are that Dr Vince 1996-97. The fact is that the Queensland FitzGerald's Commission of Audit investigation Government has already copped $190m in into the State's finances used both the current cuts from the Commonwealth Government, cash accounting system and the accrual with more cuts expected on 20 August—and it accounting system. His audit showed that, is our understanding that it is not going to fund under either system, the Queensland the Building Better Cities program—and that Government faced an underlying Budget will bring up the figure to $240m. Even Mr deficit left by Labor's excesses. Under the Hamill could add up that much. The fact is that cash accounting system, the deficit for the we face a very tough Budget process, thanks 1996-97 financial year is $240m. Under to Labor's spending spree and Canberra's accrual accounting, which takes in such items cuts. as depreciation, the Queensland Government Finally, Dr Ryan again raised the capital faces a deficit of $337m. Either way, the facts works freeze, and again he was wrong, as the state that, in no uncertain terms, the Premier showed yesterday. As the Premier Queensland Government faces a Budget stated, the coalition Government has spent deficit left to us by the economic $90m more in capital works in the June mismanagement of the Labor Party. quarter this year than Labor did in the June Mr Hamill interjected. quarter last year. So much for Labor's so- Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for called freeze! This was printed in the Courier- Ipswich! Mail a week ago and repeated by me at the infrastructure conference last Thursday. Mrs SHELDON: Mr Speaker, I am just Perhaps Dr Ryan does not read the paper he trying to educate them. It is a tough task. writes for. I suggest that the next time Dr Ryan Where Dr Ryan and the Labor Party try to wants to go public, he should check his facts confuse the people of Queensland is by instead of just relying on media releases by Mr including the $1.2 billion March quarter Loan Peter Beattie. Council allocation surplus. "Look at the figures"—Dr Ryan and the Labor Party scream—"There is a surplus of $1.2 billion MINISTERIAL STATEMENT dollars." It is those claims which highlight why it Aboriginal and Torres Strait Overview is very obvious Dr Ryan is an academic and Committee why the Labor Party is in Opposition. Hon. K. R. LINGARD (Beaudesert— Let me point out the facts. That $1.2 Minister for Families, Youth and Community billion "surplus" in the March quarter is made Care) (9.50 a.m.), by leave: Yesterday, I met up of—and I suggest that Peter listen to with Mr John Ramsamy and Mr Jacob George this—$750m in superannuation provisions of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander which cannot be touched unless Mr Beattie Overview Committee to formally receive a copy and Dr Ryan want us to follow the road of of their first independent report to the Bannon and Cain and have unfounded and Queensland Government, titled "An Agenda unfunded superannuation liabilities—and I for Action". I will table that report at the end of suppose they do not mind raiding people's this statement. I bring the attention of all superannuation funds; that is what Dr Ryan members to this magnificent report, and in and Mr Beattie are suggesting—$370m in particular to its front cover, which was carryover funds, which are already allocated to designed by Mr Brian Docherty who recently capital expenditure but had not been spent at died in custody at the Townsville Correctional the end of the March quarter; and about Centre. $100m in trust funds, again tied money which cannot be used by the Government. The report is current to 1 January 1996— covering the period of office of the previous There is no mysterious billion-dollar Labor regime—and contains some startling surplus available to the State Government to commentary about the performance of the spend. There is no secret slush fund. I wish for previous Government, its relations with the the people of Queensland that there was, but Overview Committee and its commitment to Labor made sure that there was not. progressing the Deaths in Custody Mr Elder interjected. recommendations. One need only turn to Mrs SHELDON: It will all be revealed in page 4 of the report, which states— the Budget, my friend, if he can understand "In 1993, a small report from the what he is reading. The facts are that the Overview Committee was included in the 7 Aug 1996 Ministerial Statement 2087

Queensland Government Progress Report Government's Minister for Aboriginal and to December 1993. The members of the Torres Strait Islander Affairs. Overview Committee were unanimously A number of the committee's unhappy with that reporting. We did not recommendations have been significantly believe it to be as critical of the progressed since the coalition came to Queensland Government implementation Government. We will continue to work closely record as we would have liked and it did with the committee and the Aboriginal and not give an open and detailed account of Islander community to ensure, in the what was occurring." committee's words, that "meaningful rather On page 6 the committee states that it than apparent implementation of the was "kept on a very short lead" and recommendations" is carried out. relationships with the department were "extremely poor". Two members resigned from MINISTERIAL STATEMENT the committee in frustration. At page 5 the report states that there was frustration "at the Financial Viability of Queensland pace of implementation of the Racing recommendations in Queensland and the Hon. T. R. COOPER (Crows Nest— seeming disinterest in some government Minister for Police and Corrective Services and quarters". Minister for Racing) (9.54 a.m.), by leave: In Again on page 6, the committee refers to the statement I made to Parliament in April, I the Goss Government's alleged reform outlined the appalling financial situation in the agenda, stating that "the change promised racing industry which I inherited from the was not the change delivered". It goes on— previous Government. I found that not only did the previous Government leave the industry "We . . . believe that much more demoralised and dispirited, but it also left the could have been achieved in the three industry utterly depleted financially—and that years since our appointment (in goes across all departments and portfolios. 1992) had the Queensland Government . . . been fully committed to In the 1995-96 financial year, the previous implementation. " Government overcommitted the Racing Development Fund by $6.5m and this has On page 8 the Labor Government's reform resulted in a severe rundown in fund reserves. record is again challenged. The report states— The $11m reserve with which the fund began "The Queensland Government the 1995-96 financial year has, as a result, defines 'implemented' to mean that a been reduced to just $4m. Given the recommendation is translated into requirement that the RDF keep a minimum of statutory form, be it into Acts of the $1m on account, the effective operational Parliament, subordinate legislation or fund is reduced to a meagre $3m. policy/procedures/operations manuals. As I table a document outlining the status of of December 1994, the Queensland the RDF. This document clearly shows that Government claimed to have advances and recurrent expenditure approved implemented or partly implemented 258 by the previous Government is only marginally of the 280 recommendations endorsed." below the estimated income of the fund for the next 12 months. What this document does At page 15 the committee refers to unspent not show is that no allowance has yet been moneys. The State Budget of 1992-93 made for any advances to thoroughbred clubs promised $10.5m over three years to for the next 12 months, and there are still implement Deaths in Custody applications totalling $11m unfunded from last recommendations. Was the promised money year. The document also fails to record that, spent? The Overview Committee says, "Of the without the shuffling of principal repayments of $10.5m allocated . . . about $5m was the racing industry debt by the previous unspent." Government, the RDF would be another I table the report for the information of the $6.5m worse off! House. In doing so, I wish to give appropriate As a result, and despite applications recognition to the 18 months of effort put in by totalling $11.4m, this Government has been the committee. I appreciate the committee's forced to consider only applications directly comments that it has had a number of involving safety for the 1995-96 RDF round. I meaningful discussions with myself, the have been able to approve funding of only Minister for Police, and the Attorney-General, $519,000 for thoroughbred race clubs to whereas it had only met once with the former address urgent safety issues. The 2088 Ministerial Statement 7 Aug 1996

Government has also moved quickly to of greatest importance to the people of arrange funding of $250,000 for the Queensland, as is the more specific issue of Greyhound Racing Authority to allow it to deal public drunkenness. I am in a position to with the neglected facilities existing at many advise the House that the coalition has now greyhound race club venues. committed an additional $2.3m to its Furthermore, the Government has campaign against alcohol and drug abuse. recently announced grants totalling $1.75m to Consistent with the coalition's approach to partially fund the operating costs of control health, the package will focus not on policy bodies. This has allowed those control bodies development or administration but on clinical to reduce levies to their individual clubs which services, counselling and education and the will assist their future financial viability. hands-on business of detoxification. However, as a result of the appalling I am pleased to say that the coalition's mismanagement of the last Government, commitment to provincial and western many legitimate, worthwhile and even urgent Queensland is also reflected in the package, projects may have to be deferred indefinitely. as is a recognition of Brisbane's most valued The Government also faces the major detoxification and rehabilitation centres. The unresolved issue of the ongoing viability of the package also confirms that this Government's Albion Park venue, and this matter will further approach to Aboriginal and Torres Strait hamper our flexibility to address much-needed Islander health is based on action and the industry infrastructure development. delivery of actual services. In consultation with the control body Almost every major centre in Queensland boards, the Government is continuing to will benefit from the package. Townsville, examine options for fulfilling its election Rockhampton and Logan will receive commitments as early as possible. However, it additional detoxification services or capacity. is evident that the legacy of the previous Additional alcohol treatment workers will be administration will severely restrict efforts for appointed in Mount Isa, Mackay, the Gold immediate implementation of these important Coast and the Darling Downs. Clinical and initiatives. A high priority has been given to community nursing staff will be appointed in looking at the option of phasing in of these Longreach, Bundaberg, Roma and the Gold commitments as soon as possible, but it is Coast. Logan will receive a clinical psychologist clear that priority will again have to be given to and the Sunshine Coast and Caboolture will projects directly related to safety. benefit from enhanced treatment services. The Government is considering ways of These initiatives represent a small proportion improving the management of the industry of what will be provided under the package, with a view to greater efficiency and with agreements to date totalling $714,000. accountability. We are looking at ways of Of concern to many has been the funding giving regions greater responsibility in and future of the Lucinda Rehabilitation prioritising and funding projects at the local Centre for Women. I am pleased to say that, level. We will be seeking industry views via the in addition to securing its current funding, the Office of Racing to consider whether a change coalition will provide an additional $64,000 to in the role of the fund is necessary to more the Lucinda Centre for its upgrade. Subject to accurately reflect contemporary industry issues negotiations under way, this grant will be one and priorities. A high priority will be given to of a number in the metropolitan area. These encouraging the control bodies to operate should include enhancements to the Salvation more efficiently and effectively by improving Army's Moonya facility, the South Brisbane their consultative processes with clubs and detoxification service and the Haven Hostel of regional association committees. The reality is the Society of Saint Vincent de Paul. that fierce competition for the gambling dollar Improved alcohol and drug services to the is spreading the pool ever more thinly and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander situation is going to need exceptional communities was a firm commitment of the management and an acceptance of change coalition in Opposition. Now in Government, I which cannot be avoided. am pleased to advise the House of the coalition's first delivery on this commitment. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander programs will be appointed. Program officers will be Drug and Alcohol Abuse app oin ted in Cai rns an d Hon. M. J. HORAN (Toowoomba Rockhampton/Gladstone as part of two South—Minister for Health) (9.57 a.m.), by $100,000 agreements now signed. This leave: The issue of drug and alcohol abuse is package is of such importance to the health 7 Aug 1996 Ministerial Statement 2089 and wellbeing of so many Queenslanders that industry rivalling that of southern States. I am I have guaranteed its funding into the 1997-98 pleased to announce today that it is this financial year. I have further directed my confidence that has motivated discussions department to prepare a detailed, long-term between industry representatives and me plan to continue the fight against alcohol and which may see Brisbane bidding to host the drug abuse well into the new century. 2004 Wine Australia exhibition.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Wine Australia '96 Wet Tropics Management Authority Hon. B. W. DAVIDSON (Noosa— Board; Dr L. Clark Minister for Tourism, Small Business and Hon. B. G. LITTLEPROUD (Western Industry) (10 a.m.), by leave: I wish to inform Downs—Minister for Environment) the House of an historic Queensland success (10.02 a.m.), by leave: Yesterday in this story. In June of this year, 11 Queensland House the honourable member for Everton wine makers made history when they, with the referred to a letter that I wrote to a member of assistance of the Government, united for the the board of the Wet Tropics Management first time to promote Queensland and its wine Authority. For some strange reason, the name industry. This historic initiative took place at the of the recipient was not mentioned by the country's largest wine exhibition, Wine member for Everton, but presumably it is his Australia '96, held in Sydney. I use the word comrade the failed former member for Barron "historic" as I believe that this united approach River, Dr Lesley Clark, as she was interviewed was the catalyst that will see the wine industry on ABC Radio this morning. become one of Queensland's fastest growing industries. The honourable member suggested that I was intimidating Dr Clark because I wrote a When the wine makers ventured to letter to her stating— Sydney to be a part of the Wine Australia exhibition their intention was to promote both "I felt it would be appropriate for me Queensland and the State's wine industry, to appraise you of the Government's and they hoped that it would bring some views and policies so that, as our financial returns. I am pleased to say that representative, our views are reflected in Queensland's participation in the Wine your discussions." Australia exhibition was an overwhelming I concluded the letter by stating— success, bringing with it returns well beyond "As the State representative, I would expectations. In fact, in the next 12 months, hope you would take these comments these returns are expected to add up to half a into consideration and reflect the views of million dollars in sales, almost two-thirds of the State Government in your which will be made to overseas markets, more deliberations on the Draft Wet Tropics particularly, the United States, the United Management Plan." Kingdom, Europe and the Asia Pacific. Furthermore, these sales, if achieved, will see Bearing in mind that Dr Clark was a member of Queensland's wine industry boosted by 10 per the previous Government and appointed by it cent on its current earnings. after losing her seat, I believe it was entirely appropriate for me as a Minister in the new The boost to the wine industry brought Government to give her this advice. Dr Clark about by this exposure at the Sydney and the member for Everton talk about the exhibition is also expected to bring with it independence of the Wet Tropics significant returns for the wine region's Management Authority. The Labor Party was flourishing tourism industry. Queensland, not thinking of independence when it proudly, has achieved great heights at the appointed one of its own, Dr Clark, as a Wine Australia '96 exhibition, and this member of the board. Government is working to ensure that this growth is continued into the future. In fact, I I now refer to a review of the Wet Tropics am so committed to developing this industry Management Authority undertaken by the that I have already met with many of the Public Sector Management Commission—a State's wine industry representatives to ensure review established by the former Labor an even stronger Queensland presence at Government. The findings of that review Wine Australia '98 in Melbourne. Queensland state— is going to see considerable growth in its wine "Government policy development industry in the next few years, a growth that I has to be dynamic to deal with emerging am confident will see Queensland's wine issues. It is important that the Authority be 2090 Ministerial Statement 7 Aug 1996

aware of existing and emerging State and (10.06 a.m.), by leave: I wish to inform the Commonwealth policies that are likely to House of a new and important health and affect its programs and priorities." safety initiative for the building and It goes on to say that the authority has policy construction industry titled Construction Safety responsibilities in four areas: advice to its 2000, which I launched on 15 July. The ministerial council on World Heritage issues; Construction Safety 2000 strategy of health observance of policies created by the State and safety initiatives for the building and Government; and adherence to State financial construction industry is all about achieving and administrative policy and relevant safer, healthier and more productive Commonwealth policies. The review actually workplaces. recommended that— The building and construction industry is a "The Executive Director of the vital part of Queensland. It is quite literally Authority implement procedures to ensure building our future and, like much of the Board is routinely briefed on current Queensland business, is dominated by self- and emerging Government policies." employed people and small-business operations. However, the construction industry It also recommended as follows— has the worst safety record in Queensland, "Where the Authority wishes to with direct losses amounting to $9.4m in 1994- amend, or depart from, State policies as 95. Add to this the social costs, and I am sure they relate to the Wet Tropics Area, and that honourable members on both sides would the matter is not able to be resolved by agree with me that changes are needed. I am negotiation or by a decision of the sure that the industry would like to lose its Queensland Cabinet, the Authority refers No. 1 ranking, and I believe that the the issue to the Ministerial Council for Construction Safety 2000 strategy will help it to resolution." do just that. I remind the House that I am the chairman of The new workplace health and safety that ministerial council. The process that the advisory standards and changes to workplace board has adopted for finalisation of the Wet health and safety regulations are at the heart Tropics Management Plan itself shows of this strategy. New industry-oriented dependence on the Government, noting that standards will serve to protect health and the final draft will go to the Wet Tropics safety while ensuring that industry has the Ministerial Council, which may "approve or flexibility to get on with building business. seek further changes" before Government Government and industry have worked consultation and forwarding to Cabinet. The together to develop standards that meet the board also agrees that, while Cabinet approval special needs of the various sectors of the is not required under the Act, "an important industry, and also meet the broader document of this nature including subordinate community's expectation that health and legislation would normally receive Cabinet safety at all Queensland's workplaces must scrutiny". continue to improve. The review also notes that the Minister for The Construction Safety 2000 strategy is Environment is responsible for the Wet Tropics a good example of what can be achieved World Heritage Protection and Management when everyone in the industry pulls together. Act 1993, and thus is also responsible, within Archaic, inflexible and unworkable regulation the State Government, for the authority which has been replaced by new advisory standards is set up under the same State Act. I certainly and a few regulations. We have reduced and will not walk away from my responsibilities in simplified the huge volume of standards and this regard or pass the buck under the guise of presented them in a way that is useful to giving independence, as the Labor industry. A specially developed Construction Government has in the past. Dr Clark is not Kit which includes copies of the key standards correct in her statement. The facts I have and summaries of other legislation relevant to highlighted show that, as a member of the the construction industry has been produced. Wet Tropics Management Authority Board, In conjunction with industry safety specialists, she must have regard for Government policy. the Division of Workplace Health and Safety will run training seminars for builders and subcontractors. My department is working MINISTERIAL STATEMENT closely with industry organisations to help these associations help their members. The Construction Safety 2000 same approach applies to the various unions Hon. S. SANTORO (Clayfield—Minister and trades whose associations have for Training and Industrial Relations) contributed to these standards that address 7 Aug 1996 Ministerial Statement 2091 roofing, scaffolding and earthmoving, to name Heads. Existing and potential suppliers of a few. goods and services to the State Government A great deal of work has gone into the should be cautious when approached by development of the strategy. I would like to telephone callers seeking their quality place on record my sincere thanks to all those assurance status. Scores of business people who have worked so hard to bring this about. in Brisbane, on the Gold Coast and elsewhere In particular, I want to thank the chairpersons in Queensland are complaining about being and members of the Building Industry billed hundreds of dollars for unauthorised Committee, the Engineering, Construction and listings in registers of quality assured Utility Services Industry Committee and the companies. The clever cons use telephone working groups associated with both and direct mail techniques. There have been committees. The industry employer cases of unsolicited bills for hundreds of associations and the unions must be dollars arriving among the thousands of pieces particularly complimented for working so well of correspondence that small-business people together on this issue. Thanks must also go to must handle month in and month out. health and safety experts, other professionals Basically, there are two scams. In one of in the field and the staff of the Division of these scams, telephone callers offer Workplace Health and Safety. Real gains in businesses, for a fee, listings on registers of workplace health and safety will be made quality-assured companies. The offers are when each and every building and further sweetened with the promise of a QA construction workplace makes a conscious certificate. These bogus certificates are not commitment to health and safety and follows it worth the paper they are written on. Sadly, this up with action. Construction Safety 2000 is all has come as quite a shock to some suppliers about giving industry the tools to do just that. who have unwittingly submitted the bogus certificates when tendering for Government MINISTERIAL STATEMENT work, only to be told that the certificates are worthless. Sometimes businesses contacted Quality Assurance Scams by these firms have been led to believe that Hon. R. T. CONNOR (Nerang— the callers represent the Government, but this Minister for Public Works and Housing) is certainly not the case. In one instance, a (10.08 a.m.), by leave: My department has sales representative from one of these firms responded to legitimate concerns raised by falsely used the name of an officer from my many business operators and has drawn my department to solicit a payment of $395 for attention to the unscrupulous tactics of some inclusion of the supplier's QA details in a producers of registers of quality-assured directory. In the second scam, a direct-mail companies. What occurs is nothing short of a technique has been used in the form of blatant con, aimed at extracting dollars from unsolicited invoices in the mail describing the businesses which have gone to considerable charge as an application fee to assist time and expense to become quality assured. businesses with their quality assurance. More than 350 complaints of quality I am warning the peddlers of these tactics assurance con men trying to rip off aimed at fleecing businesses of hard-earned unsuspecting businesses have inundated dollars that my department has been Queensland Government agencies in recent instructed to take all necessary action to stop months. It is staggering that the problem could the activities of firms preying on existing have grown to such an extent, and there are quality-assured companies and those too many cases of companies getting caught. intending to become quality assured. Legal The magnitude of the problem has become advice is being sought concerning action that apparent only after piecing together the jigsaw may be taken against these firms. Further, the of complaints to the Quality Assurance Unit regional director of the Australian Consumer within my department, Consumer Affairs, the and Competition Commission has been Department of Tourism, Small Business and alerted and is only too willing to assist in Industry and the State Purchasing Council stamping out these practices. What should be secretariat. clearly understood is that the Government My department alone has received does not endorse or promote commercial around 200 written and verbal complaints in purchasing directories or indexes or quality the past six months, and is currently averaging assurance registers. Quality-assured suppliers two to three complaints a week. The to the Government are listed free of charge in complaints have come from as far west as an official register compiled by the Quality Mount Isa, north to Cairns and south to Tweed Assessment Unit of my department. 2092 Notices of Motion 7 Aug 1996

OVERSEAS VISIT which, in fact, has come crashing Report down; Mr ARDILL (Archerfield) (10.12 a.m.): I (8) promising not to sell off the family submit a report on my overseas trip, recently silver—but Suncorp and QIDC are concluded. May I say just a few words? There being sold; is much to be gained by encouraging (9) promising that the public service members of Parliament to travel to countries could 'relax' because there would be with a similar socioeconomic situation to no purge—but a $300m purge is Australia. While we need to continue our trade taking place"—— delegations to our trading partners, overseas Mr Borbidge interjected. travel should not be restricted to that purpose, Mr BEATTIE: The Premier wants to eliminating the possibility of learning from countries with a similar past and culture to our attack the Courier-Mail again, does he? I will beginnings. I trust that members will receive continue— the suggestions I have made in this report in "(10) promising freedom of information the spirit in which they are put forward. would be made easier—but this Government has put up new barriers to hide the truth of what it is NOTICES OF MOTION conspiring to do; and Government's Broken Promises calls on Premier Borbidge and Treasurer Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central—Leader Sheldon to ensure that promises be kept of the Opposition) (10.13 a.m.): I give notice in line with the Contract with Queensland that I shall move— made by the Premier on 3 July 1995." "That this Parliament condemns the broken promises of the minority Coalition Yarrabah Hospital Government and its betrayal of the Mrs EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha) people of Queensland in breaking its (10.15 a.m.): I give notice that I shall move— election promises, including— "(1) That this House condemns the (1) promising not to remove common Health Minister for— law rights under the Workers' Compensation scheme which it has (a) failing to adequately answer a now done; question in this House about the deep concerns raised by health (2) promising not to privatise school workers that hundreds of sick cleaning—now more than 5,000 people including children were people will be jobless by Christmas; denied proper treatment at the (3) promising not to cut the budget of Yarrabah Hospital over the the Department of the Environment weekend in the face of a severe where 100 people have already lost flu epidemic; their jobs; (b) subsequently dismissing (4) promising to immediately increase concerns of local people who police numbers—but July's intake of had been turned away from 40 recruits at the Police Academy Yarrabah Hospital without proper was cancelled; medications because the Cairns Base Hospital had run out of (5) promising 80 new police would panadol supplies, describing the emerge from a new academy in situation as a beat-up despite Townsville in the first year of confirmation of the crisis by the Government—but not one new Cairns District Health Service officer will emerge to pound the beat; reported in the Cairns Post on 6 (6) promising not to introduce new or August 1996; increased taxes and charges—but (c) failing to deliver the very basic of compulsory third party insurance rose health services to local by a whopping $66; communities in regional (7) promising to save the extremely rare Queensland as a result of mahogany glider as part of a $16m decisions taken by the Minister Federal/State plan to protect its to reduce funding to community dwindling patch of rainforest home health designed to provide 7 Aug 1996 Private Members' Statements 2093

health care close to where And that this House urges all patriotic people actually live; Queenslanders to attend the 'welcome (d) failing to instruct the Cairns home' parades planned in Brisbane and District Health Service to on the Gold Coast." immediately resolve the shortfall Mr SPEAKER: Order! Does the by purchasing emergency member wish to congratulate also the Minister supplies of panadol from local for Sport? suppliers or pharmacists; and (2) calls on Mr Horan to explain to the PRIVATE MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Parliament why he allowed this Performance of Government health crisis at Yarrabah to continue for over three days; and asks him to Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central—Leader apologise to health workers, doctors of the Opposition) (10.18 a.m.): I rise today to and patients caught in the middle of raise concerns about the arrogance of this this disgraceful example of Government in ignoring the wishes of this bureaucratic red tape." Parliament. On 1 May, Parliament called on the Government, in a resolution passed by this House, to immediately establish an Higher Education independent authority to fully investigate Mr BREDHAUER (Cook) (10.16 a.m.): I accusations of paedophilia in this State. I give notice that I shall move— gather that there is a draft Bill somewhere, but there has been no action. The Bill has not "That this House notes today's been introduced into the Parliament. The national day of action by the higher Government has not taken immediate action education sector, including students, staff as required by the Parliament. and lecturers from all Queensland Universities to protest against funding cuts Secondly, on 25 July, the Parliament by the Federal Government and required the Premier to set a by-election date in Lytton as soon as possible to reinstate That this Parliament supports the representation for the voters of Lytton in this campaign and calls on the Federal Parliament. Again, the Government has failed Government to honour its election in its duty to democracy. No date has been set promise not to cut funding for higher for the Lytton by-election. The Government education." has flagrantly thumbed its nose at this Parliament. The people's House has been ignored. Olympic Athletes Last night, Parliament called on the Mr CAMPBELL (Bundaberg) Government to reverse its decision on (10.17 a.m.): I give notice that I shall move— privatising school cleaning. Parliament called "That this House congratulates our on the Government to honour its promise not Australian Olympic athletes on their to contract out school cleaning. Its plan was magnificent performances at the Atlanta for more than 5,000 Queenslanders to join the Olympic Games and on winning the most dole queue two weeks before Christmas. medals ever in the history of our nation's Many of those cleaners demonstrated their participation in the Olympics and that we concern by travelling to Parliament last night to congratulate all of our Queensland-based listen in the gallery to the debate. All we had athletes on their sportsmanship and from the Minister today was that he tried to achievements, especially our medal describe them as a rent-a-mob. He has winners— insulted every cleaner in this State. What a Kieren Perkins, Susie O'Neill, Cathy disgrace he is! Freeman, Samantha Riley, Daniel The Government can find $200m to Kowalski, Katrin Borchert, Anna abolish a tollway in the Treasurer's own Wood, Baeden Choppy, Tanya electorate and $70m to play on the share Harding, Joyce Lester, Carolyn market to buy Metway shares, but it cannot Crudington, Frankie McRae, Haylea find enough money to employ 5,000 cleaners. Petrie, Jenny Whittle, Nicole What is the Government going to do? Is it Stevenson, Renita Farrell, Clover going to follow the wishes of this Parliament, Maitland, Jennifer Morris, Kim or is it going to treat Parliament with contempt Cooper, Sandy Brondello and Clint and ignore the people's House? That is the Robinson question the Government needs to answer, 2094 Private Members' Statements 7 Aug 1996 and it needs to answer this question also: Budget Surplus when is it going to follow the wishes of this Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich) Parliament? (10.22 a.m.): I had a sense of deja vu this Time expired. morning when I listened to the Premier and the Treasurer in this place. I remember well Toowoomba Hospital the days when Liberal and National Party politicians came into this Chamber and vilified Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North) critics of the Government and smeared and (10.20 a.m.): The Health Minister, Mike Horan, tried to denigrate them when they had the recently announced $155,100 in funding to temerity to raise issues of public concern. The provide extra equipment to assist the Toowoomba Hospital to reduce its waiting Premier did it this morning with his attack upon the Courier-Mail, and the Treasurer did it in her times for elective surgery. This additional funding backs up the coalition Government's attempt to denigrate the independent analysis promise to the people of Toowoomba and produced by Dr Neal Ryan of the QUT, which I surrounding districts to reduce unacceptable table. That puts the lie to the repeated claims waiting times for elective surgery. The by the Premier and the Treasurer that there additional equipment approved for the was a financial crisis in Queensland. Toowoomba Hospital includes a surgical The arrogance of the Treasurer is there admission unit, the replacement of surgical for all to see. She tried to link Dr Ryan and the equipment and theatre equipment for the day ALP. She should have gone a bit further. She surgery unit. This is just the start of more good should have mentioned the fact that the news for the Toowoomba Hospital, with further figures that Dr Ryan was using were Treasury announcements to be made in relation to figures. Maybe she should have linked the accident and emergency, intensive care and Treasury, Dr Ryan and the ALP. The Treasurer medical imaging. This new equipment will might also have referred to the fact that the allow better utilisation of the day surgery unit at the hospital. figures that Dr Ryan was using were published by the Commonwealth Treasury. Maybe they It was an absolute disgrace that the day are part of the conspiracy—although, of surgery unit, opened in 1992 by the previous course, the Premier confirmed the Labor Government, had never been fully Commonwealth figures when he utilised due to a lack of funds and very poor acknowledged that there would be a massive planning. The funding for new equipment is underlying Budget surplus of as much as $1 part of a $1m package allocated under the billion. He said words to that effect a few Statewide Surgery on Time plan launched weeks ago in the Parliament. Maybe the recently by the Health Minister. The extra funds will enable Queensland's 10 major Treasurer should have gone a bit further and public hospitals to gear up for a major assault linked in her Under Treasurer, Dr McTaggart, on waiting times. The coalition Government is who told members of the Parliament on providing the action plan, setting the targets, Monday that there would be a $5m surplus in training the staff and delivering the extra the Budget at the end of last financial year. equipment needed for Queensland's public Maybe the Treasurer should have linked hospitals to make major inroads into elective herself into the same conspiracy, because she surgery waiting times. has been forecasting a Budget surplus for the A waiting list audit at 30 November 1995 end of 1995-96. of Queensland's 10 major public hospitals This Treasurer is clearly not up to the job. revealed that 43 per cent of Category 1 She continually puts politics ahead of good patients, or 492, had waited more than the financial management. She continually puts maximum recommended 30 days, and that her own interests ahead of the interests of approximately 24 per cent of Category 2 Queensland. She did it with the motorway. patients—in excess of 5,000—had waited She can find money for that, but she cannot more than the recommended 12 months. By find money for school cleaners. There is no 31 December this year, this Government aims financial crisis. There is no underlying Budget to have more than 90 per cent of the urgent deficit. All the indicators show quite clearly that Category 1 patients treated within the clinically Queensland is in a sound financial position. appropriate 30 days. As Surgery on Time This Government is putting politics ahead of progresses it will ensure that we reduce the the public interest—a Government that is waiting times across all elective surgery trying to mislead the people of Queensland. operations carried out in Queensland's public hospitals. Time expired. 7 Aug 1996 Private Members' Statements 2095

Sunshine Motorway members stopped dumping on the Sunshine Miss SIMPSON (Maroochydore) Coast, which had the right to have that (10.24 a.m.): How many times do members election commitment fulfilled in the way that it have to hear the Leader of the Opposition has been. telling whoppers about the Sunshine Time expired. Motorway? Opposition members interjected. Crime, Logan City Miss SIMPSON: I ask Opposition Mr BARTON (Waterford) (10.26 a.m.): I members to listen to this. The Sunshine rise to advise this Parliament about a most Motorway is not in Treasurer Joan Sheldon's serious problem, that is, the alarming increase electorate. It is not in the Treasurer's in crime in the Logan City region for the period electorate! 1 January to 30 June this year. There are Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. I increases in break and enters to private find those comments offensive and untrue. I dwellings as high as 77.1 per cent. This is an seek for them to be withdrawn. indication of a broken promise by this Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point Government, particularly the current Minister of order. I call the member for Maroochydore. for Police, to significantly increase police numbers to the Logan/Beenleigh region and Miss SIMPSON: The Leader of the the failure of this Government to address Opposition does not know the Sunshine crime and police numbers in an overall way. Coast. The Sunshine Motorway is not in the This has led police in that region to leak Treasurer's electorate. information to the media and Labor members Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. of this House. And what a sorry tale it is: The member has insinuated that I have been increases in break and enters to dwelling misrepresenting the position in relation to the houses of an average 36.2 per cent over the tollway and said that I have been telling whole area. That represents an additional 675 whoppers. I seek for that to be withdrawn. families who have had their homes invaded during that period. A total of over 2,500 Mr SPEAKER: Order! It is trivial, but in families in that area have had their homes order for the member to continue her speech broken into. In Logan central, that increase is she will withdraw the remarks that the Leader 77.1 per cent, in Browns Plains it is 52.2 per of the Opposition finds offensive. cent, and in Jimboomba 42 per cent. Miss SIMPSON: I withdraw that. The Before the election, this Minister promised Leader of the Opposition does not know the that there would be an immediate significant Sunshine Coast. He is misleading the increase in police numbers in the Parliament and the people of Queensland. Logan/Beenleigh region. But how many? I will The Sunshine Motorway is not in Joan tell members how many. There have been Sheldon's electorate. The tolls are not in Joan absolutely none! What does this Minister say Sheldon's electorate. I have listened to about it? He says, "It is not up to me. It is the members from the other side of the House commissioner's decision. I provide only the telling whoppers about this particular matter. overall police numbers." That was said in a How many times do I have to tell them? It is letter to me at the same time as the Minister not in Joan Sheldon's electorate. It is in the allowed the July intake of 40 police recruits to electorates of other Sunshine Coast members: be cut. This compares to the Labor the honourable member for Mooloolah, myself Government's period of office, when there was and Bruce Davidson—although there were no almost a doubling of police numbers in that tolls in Bruce Davidson's electorate. region and a new Logan Central Police Station That was an election promise of the was—— coalition. We delivered. Members opposite Time expired. said that they would deliver it—they did not. They lied. Also, the audit said that it cost $4m, not $200m. The former Government left Aurukun Road Death behind a $185m debt. According to the audit, Mrs WILSON (Mulgrave) (10.28 a.m.): I it cost $4m. The former Government has wish to advise the House of an incident at misled the people of Queensland. The Aurukun on 25 July this year, which resulted in motorway is not in Joan Sheldon's electorate. the death of a young Aboriginal girl after she I thank the coalition, the Treasurer and commandeered a four-wheel-drive vehicle the Transport Minister for delivering on their owned by a local community organisation. This promise. It is about time that Opposition incident has received some media coverage in 2096 Questions Without Notice 7 Aug 1996

Cairns which, intentionally or otherwise, has reports and independent economists show wrongly implied some lack of responsibility on that this State has an underlying Budget the part of two staff members of the surplus and that therefore there is no need for Department of Families, Youth and cuts to the Education Department budget. I Community Care. These are the facts. ask: will he obey the decision of this On Thursday, 25 July, at about 3 p.m., Parliament last night that the Government two female employees from the department should reverse its decision to privatise school and one member of the Woya Min community cleaning? organisation at Aurukun were required to Mr QUINN: The member clearly transport a young offender to the airstrip for confuses an underlying deficit of $185m, onward transportation to an outreach centre. which the Commission of Audit has found and The four-wheel-drive vehicle to be used for this about which the Treasury has also provided purpose belonged to the Woya Min advice that is correct—— community. While the staff members and the Mr Borbidge: $240m this year. community organisation member were at the council office at Aurukun, they were Mr QUINN: Yes, the deficit will grow to approached by 18-year-old Ruth Wolmby, an $240m this year, with a cash surplus of $5m. Aboriginal girl who was seeking assistance in As I pointed out in the debate last night, one relation to a problem she had with the Social person in this House who sits on the other side Security Department. The girl's request for of the Chamber has for the past three years transport was granted. It was necessary to been an expert in disguising underlying deficits detour to the young offender's home to allow by using a series of one-off cash payments. him to collect clean clothes before proceeding Mr De LACY: I rise to a point of order. to the airstrip. The young lad was The Minister said something similar last night accompanied into the house by one of the also. It is wrong. It is fallacious. It is offensive. I staff members while the other staff member never disguised anything at all. When we waited beside the vehicle. The community brought down Budgets we always did so to worker was sitting "half in, half out" of the rear uniform presentation standards. My challenge seat of the vehicle during this time. to the Government is to make sure that it does Without any warning whatsoever, the 18- that this year and that it does not start fiddling year-old girl who had asked for a lift jumped the figures as Mrs Sheldon has been doing in into the driver's seat and sped off. I the House for the past six months. understand the community worker was thrown from the vehicle shortly after it was Mr SPEAKER: Order! I heard nothing commandeered. The vehicle travelled at offensive mentioned about the honourable excessive speed for some distance before it member. I rule that there is no point of order. overturned on a bend within sight of the staff Mr QUINN: I think the guilty party member and the community worker. identified himself. Last night this House—— Unfortunately, the girl died from severe head Mr Purcell interjected. injuries as a result of the crash. Although this incident was tragic by its Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the very nature, I emphasise the fact that neither member for Bulimba under Standing Order the staff from the department nor the 123A. community workers should be apportioned any Mr QUINN: As everyone knows, last blame for the death of the girl. The girl's action night this House passed a resolution calling was totally unexpected and there was nothing upon the Government to reverse its decision. I in her demeanour prior to the crash that would have indicated that I will consider that request. suggest anything other than her desire to hitch A number of competing interests are involved. a lift to the nearest telephone box—a request I have also indicated that, through the efficient willingly granted by the other occupants of the saving of $50m by contracting out school vehicle. Needless to say, both staff members cleaners, we intend to plough money back into have suffered emotionally as a result of this schools and back into classrooms. If we incident, which has not been helped by certain cannot provide the funding through that media implications. avenue, then we have to look at other Time expired. avenues of acquiring or identifying $53m, because over 80 per cent of the Department QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE of Education's budget relates to salaries and wages. Therefore, as was indicated in 1993 by School Cleaners the then Treasurer, Mr De Lacy, the only Mr BEATTIE (10.30 a.m.): I remind the options available to the Government at this Minister for Education that official Government time—as they were in 1993—are to look at 7 Aug 1996 Questions Without Notice 2097 school rationalisation and a reduction in program exists until the Budget is brought teacher numbers. Those are the only options. down in September. Nothing has changed. They were the options in 1993 as the then We will deal with the issue. We have been Treasurer discovered, and they are the only running the program since February and we options available to us at present. are continuing with that program. I will be weighing up those options. I believe that school rationalisation and a Public Service Appointments by Labor reduction in teacher numbers are more Government unpalatable than the efficient provision of cleaning services in schools. Since this is a Mr SPRINGBORG: I refer the Premier budgetary issue and it is being considered in to recent criticism of the Government over the the budgetary process, the Parliament itself administration of the public service. I ask: can will have the opportunity to decide whether I the Premier outline to the House any curious have made the correct decision when the public service arrangements entered into by Budget is brought down. the previous Government? Mr BORBIDGE: It would take too much time for me to answer the question in detail, Asbestos in Government Buildings but I thank the honourable member for Mr BEATTIE: In directing a question to Warwick for his question. It is fair to say that the Minister for Public Works and Housing, I over recent weeks we have seen a great deal table a letter from Q-Build that states that from the Labor Party and its coalition partners, there is no funding available for the removal of the Courier-Mail, in respect of criticism of the asbestos from Government buildings. I ask: Government in regard to public service can he give a guarantee that no person's matters. We have had this incredible holier- health, particularly that of school children, than-thou approach from honourable hospital patients and staff, is in danger as a members opposite. I believe that it is result of this cost-cutting measure? I also table important and timely to remind the House of photographs of asbestos in a Queensland some of the curious arrangements entered school. into by the previous Government. Also, I have Mr CONNOR: Quite rightly, I am the opportunity today to enlighten the responsible for the asbestos material program. Parliament about another appointment that It was an ongoing problem that we inherited we have uncovered which can only be from the previous Government. described as spectacular. Surprise, surprise! It happened in the Department of Health. Opposition members interjected. Mrs Sheldon: Who was the Minister Mr CONNOR: Are Opposition members then? saying that the Government manufactured that problem in the last six months? Mr BORBIDGE: I understand that the Minister was either the Leader of the We inherited that problem and we are Opposition or the Deputy Leader of the dealing with it. The funding level is exactly the Opposition, or one of the other three, four or same. We have continued the program until five Health Ministers who were in place while the Budget in September in exactly the same Labor was in office. No doubt the guilty party manner as occurred before. will own up to the Parliament a little later. The Leader of the Opposition, in common Firstly, we had the shabby deal that saw Mr with everyone else in Queensland, including Ross Rolfe appointed to a CEO position the me, will have to wait for the Budget to see day prior to the Mundingburra by-election. I exactly what funding we receive. We have that remind the House that the selection process responsibility. We will continue to deal with that associated with that particular appointment issue in a workmanlike manner. A total of was, to say the least, unusual. It was signed approximately 31,000 Government buildings off by the then Premier in advice to Executive are required to be checked under this process. Council on 29 January, which was two days We are going through that process. The prior to the selection panel—which included necessary actions, such as removals, will the member for Waterford, the former Minister occur. for Environment—agreeing to the Mr Beattie: But there's no money. appointment. Mr CONNOR: We have not moved An Opposition member interjected. away from anything. There is money allocated. Mr BORBIDGE: No, I am just building We have not taken any away. The money is up. Then we had Dick Persson, Jacki Byrne there; the program is there. I just said that the and Craig Emerson—quite a rogues' gallery. 2098 Questions Without Notice 7 Aug 1996

Now we have the story of Jude. I think that this available to the former Health Minister, Mr story will be absolutely fascinating to Beattie, stated— honourable members on both sides of the "At the outset I have to say that the House. I would like to acquaint the House with legal status of this curious agreement is the curious, to say the least, circumstances unclear." surrounding one Ms Jude Abbs, former employee of Queensland Health. It goes on to state— I have to admit that I am not totally up to "It does not appear to fall into any of speed with the factional arrangements that the three categories of arrangement apply within the Labor Party, but I am told that contemplated by the PSME Act as Ms Abbs is a key player within the Labor Party. applicable to SES officers"— I am advised that when Labor came to power and that— she was to be rewarded for service with a job "It does not hang-off the PSME Act." in the public service. So what we had was a new category created Government members interjected. so that the Labor Party could park Ms Abbs at Mr BORBIDGE: Opposition members the University of Queensland on $104,000 a will hear all about it. Don't they squeal when year with her Government car while her they get touchy! Their duplicity knows no entitlements continued to accrue. I suggest bounds. that is a pretty good deal. The only problem for Ms Abbs was that That advice provided to the Health Ministers and key staff used to change so Department, which would have been available often within the Health portfolio that people to the former Health Minister, the current such as Ms Abbs often found themselves in Leader of the Opposition, said that it was and out of favour. That proved to be the case "curious" and that it did not fall into any of the at about the time the member for Kallangur three categories of arrangement. So the Labor served his stint as Health Minister. He teamed Party created a special arrangement for a up with Mr Persson to get rid of Ms Abbs. special mate. It was another Labor deal; However, they could not get rid of a comrade another effort to park a Labor mate—a Labor altogether. They could not risk cross-factional mate who had run foul of the factions, a Labor support. People such as Ms Abbs have to be mate who had to be got rid of but in such a retained in some form. The Labor Party has to way that she was accommodated. The Labor protect all their taxpayer benefits and it has to Party did not worry about the consequences; it park them. did not worry about whether it was really legitimate. It just made it happen. The Labor The Labor Party wanted to get rid of Ms Party did not worry about propriety. Abbs, so it came up with what can only be described as a pretty good rort, which is That was the way in which Labor handled applied when people are "in" with honourable the public service. That was its form. That is members opposite. What was cooked up by why so many legitimate public servants were the Labor Party? It has now come to light that fed up with Labor and voted it out of office. It Ms Abbs was to enjoy a most unusual also shows why so much of the rubbish and arrangement, which would see her retain her the nonsense that has been coming from full salary package of $104,000 a year, her honourable members opposite deserves to be taxpayer-funded car and other benefits while treated with absolute and total contempt. At she went to university. She was seconded to the time, the Leader of the Opposition was the University of Queensland for two years. So Health Minister. He was happy to have this a special agreement was prepared to look person parked at the University of Queensland after her. It said that Ms Abbs would retain all on $104,000, with a car and all her benefits the rights and privileges of a permanent public accruing. It was okay. servant, she would retain appointment to her Mr Carroll interjected. substantive position, she would continue to Mr BORBIDGE: The honourable accrue all entitlements during her period of member makes a very valid observation about secondment and she would continue to the way in which the previous Government receive remuneration available to her wasted and squandered taxpayers' funds to substantive position during her term of look after its Labor mates. secondment. I am advised that legal advice available to the former Health Minister—the now Leader of Mr D. Quick the Opposition—should have set the bells Mr ELDER: I refer the Premier to—as he ringing. What was that advice? The advice puts it—"curious" appointments and the 7 Aug 1996 Questions Without Notice 2099 appointment of senior National Party figure listed a total of 30 important initiatives taken Dennis Quick to a senior position on $80,000 by the coalition Government in just six months. a year, a car and perks, in the Premier's Each of those initiatives has a direct impact Townsville office, and I ask: will the Premier upon the provision of infrastructure. They investigate the allegations circulating widely in include Queensland's first privatisation, an Townsville that Mr Quick continues to operate eight-lane super highway, secure power in the his private consultancy business from and north, a $162m return for the gas pipeline, cut- using the resources of the Office of the price gas in Gladstone and Rockhampton, an Premier that he established in Townsville? airport rail link worth $100m and a big new Mr BORBIDGE: That question is on a banking and insurance company based here par with most of the allegations that the in Queensland. Those are just some of the member makes in this place. I have no doubt big, new projects that this Government has that it will be proved wrong. brought forth in five months which the Labor Government, when it was in power, could not The other point that I make is that Mr bring forth in six years. Certainly, some of Quick is not employed by the Department of those projects sat and gathered dust. One the Premier and Cabinet; his was a ministerial only has to look at the Metway rescue, which appointment. this State Government performed. Labor gave Metway up for dead. Indeed, ironically, the Government Spending on shadow Treasurer gave Labor's eulogy for Infrastructure Metway in this House while the coalition was working at top speed on its rescue. Mr CARROLL: I refer the Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for The Arts to However, while we have been breathing life into these important projects, we have also a National/Liberal coalition Government policy produced the first part of a comprehensive, of increasing spending on infrastructure and long-term plan for infrastructure in concerns that the previous Labor Government did not do enough to promote spending on Queensland. Of course, the first part of that infrastructure, and I ask: is the Deputy Premier plan was the Commission of Audit, which and Treasurer able to quantify Queensland's identified private sector sources for funding. It recent performance in this area? also identified and prioritised infrastructure needs. It identified opportunities to accelerate Mrs SHELDON: I thank the honourable the process through privatisation and it gave member for his question. It was very obvious an authoritative balance sheet for Queensland that, in relation to the provision of in cash and accrual terms. infrastructure, Labor left us with a mess. However, the top priority of the coalition is Despite our early success, we still have a ensuring a balanced Budget, and it will deliver big job to do because we have to handle it. Certainly, infrastructure rates a very close Labor's legacy. On any independent measure, second on its list of priorities. the Labor Government allowed the State to fall very far behind in this crucial area. I would Mr Hamill interjected. like to refer members to the Bureau of Industry Mrs SHELDON: We will give the Economics International Benchmarking previous Government's figures in exactly the Overview 1995, and the shadow Treasurer same way as the former Treasurer did. It is the might like to listen to this. He would not read it, same Budget format. We have the former but it is called the Bureau of Industry Treasurer's word that everything was perfectly Economics International Benchmarking aboveboard in the last Budget. It will be Overview 1995, and it says some interesting exactly as he said in this Budget. things about the infrastructure provided by the former Government. This study was quoted by For a decade now, Queensland has had Brisbane economist Michael Knox in his recent a strong population growth. Under Labor, analysis of the State economic strategy. The Queensland's ability to provide infrastructure Bureau of Industry Economics report included fell behind. That is why we have power a State infrastructure scorecard, which I will blackouts and the south-east coast road is an outline for the Opposition. It stated that in the absolute traffic gridlock—because the former early nineties Queensland had the highest Government would not make the decisions. productivity performance in infrastructure On Thursday in Brisbane I addressed a provision of any Australian State but that by conference on infrastructure. Apart from 1994, along with New South Wales, initiatives such as removing stamp duty from Queensland had deteriorated from one of the home refinancing and solving the capital cheapest providers of infrastructure services to needs of Suncorp at no cost to the taxpayer, I one of the most expensive providers of 2100 Questions Without Notice 7 Aug 1996 infrastructure services. Throughout that period, Mr Stoneman: No motor car, either. the State which had the smallest Mr BORBIDGE: I am advised that there improvements both in productivity and price is no motor car as part of the package. performance was Queensland. This is the legacy that the Opposition left The other point I will make very clear to to the people of Queensland, as stated in honourable members opposite is that if they those facts. This is the legacy that we have to want to start asking questions about staff, I will face and solve in our Budget in September, start providing the correct information. If and we will deliver. members opposite want to get down in the gutter, there is a lot I could say. However, I will leave it at this: when we came to power, every School Cleaners staff member in my ministerial office took a Mr BREDHAUER: I refer the Minister for lower salary than that which applied under the Education to the decision of the Parliament previous Labor Government. Some of them calling on the Government to overturn the have accepted thousands and thousands of Minister's callous plan to privatise school dollars less than their predecessors were paid cleaning and sack 5,000 school cleaners, and when Labor was in office. We have this to his statement last Friday that there would shabby little effort by the Deputy Leader of the be no savings in the cleaning budget in the Opposition about this plum $80,000 job in the first year to pay for redundancies. I also refer public service, but Mr Quick is an AO6 and to the Minister's threat this morning to sack up earns $45,000. to 1,000 teachers as a result of the Mr ELDER: I rise to a point of order. All I Parliament's vote. I ask: if the Government asked was: will the Premier investigate the can find $200m for the Treasurer to scrap the allegations? That is all the Premier has to do: Sunshine Motorway toll in her own backyard investigate the allegations. and $85m for a share market splurge with Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point taxpayers' money to buy Metway Bank, why of order. can it not find the money to keep the jobs of school cleaners without resorting to threats to sack school teachers and close schools? Employment Mr QUINN: We have said it time and Mr HAMILL: I refer the Treasurer to the time again, and still we cannot get through to continuing deterioration in Queensland's the people on the other side. In fact, this year employment outlook as revealed by the we are facing an underlying deficit of $185m massive 7.7 per cent decline in job which will increase to $240m. What we do with advertisements in July as identified by the ANZ regard to school cleaners, what we do with Bank. Incidentally, that is the worst result in regard to employing more teachers, what we mainland Australia. Now that the Treasurer do with regard to opening more schools, and has seen the chilling results of her freeze on so on, will be there for everyone to see when capital works, the results of her scrapping of the Budget is brought down on 10 September. the $745m Accelerated Capital Works Program of the former Government and her Mr D. Quick deliberate and irresponsible campaign to undermine confidence in the Queensland Mr MITCHELL: I refer the Premier to economy, I ask: will the Treasurer stop sacking claims by the Opposition that Mr Dennis Quick workers and reinstate the employment is employed in the Premier's Townsville office generating programs of the former Labor on an $80,000 salary. Could the Premier Government? inform the House of the facts? Mr BORBIDGE: I have been advised of Mrs SHELDON: Unfortunately, the further information in respect of Mr Dennis honourable member does not realise that the Quick. I would again make the comment that problems we face in Queensland today are this just shows how low the Opposition will go. the legacy of six years of Labor. That is the Opposition members get up here under real basis. May I say to the member that the parliamentary privilege and talk about this reason that we have this unemployment rate plum, $80,000-plus public service position. is that the former Government did not set an The facts are these: Mr Quick is on the economic basis for this State on which it could ministerial staff establishment, not progress and improve. It has already been departmental. Is he being paid $80,000 a proved to members opposite this week—— year? The classification for Mr Quick is AO6. Ms Bligh: You're going to sack 5,000 His salary is about $45,000 per year. more. 7 Aug 1996 Questions Without Notice 2101

Mrs SHELDON: The Opposition asked have to cop that. It is unparliamentary and the question, and I am answering it. The untrue, as the Minister knows, and I ask for it honourable member should sit back and to be withdrawn. listen. The honourable member can hear all Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable about it. Who is asking the question—Mr member finds the remarks offensive and asks Hamill or the other member over there, for a withdrawal. whoever she is? May I also say that the reason that the Mr HORAN: I am happy to withdraw it. Opposition is stating that there is a freeze on The member for Mount Coot-tha and capital works in this State has been proven to Opposition spokesperson on Health started off be wrong. In the June quarter—— talking about the privatisation of hospitals. Mr Hamill: By whom? That myth was debunked in the 1995 election, when the Government was virtually thrown out Mrs SHELDON: The independent of office after it ran a disgraceful campaign figures show that in the June quarter this around the State saying that the coalition Government spent $100m more on public would sell off hospitals. I do not know how infrastructure than Labor did last year. Those many times we have to tell members opposite are the facts that the member does not want that we are not privatising Queensland's public to face up to. The fact that the Labor Party left hospitals, of which there are about 140. I do an underlying deficit of $185m in the Budget, not know which part of "no" it is that members and what would be a real deficit of $240m, opposite do not understand. does not give the people in the community a lot of confidence. Mrs EDMOND: I rise to a point of order. Mr Speaker, the Minister is misrepresenting However, I would like to say that this State my remarks. I just repeated the comments by is financially sound. We have $51 billion in the Treasurer, the Minister for Development, assets. Our problem is recurrent expenditure Mr Slack, and the Commission of Audit. which people want on service delivery in health and education. Much of the problem is due to Mr SLACK: I rise to a point of order. Mr the former Minister, the member for Brisbane Speaker, I take exception to what the lady Central, who blew his budget by—was it said, because at no stage did I say that we $70m? He blew his recurrent budget by $70m. were selling off Queensland's hospitals. As the Minister for Health has often said, he Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point also blew his capital budget by $1.2 billion. of order. That is his economic management! Labor should take the blame for the legacy that it left Mrs EDMOND: I rise to a point of order. the people of this State. Mr Speaker, I point out to the Minister that I am the member for Mount Coot-tha, and he made those remarks at a breakfast speech Privatisation of Health Services lauding the privatisation of hospitals. Mr J. N. GOSS: I ask the Minister for Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point Health: would he please inform the House—— of order. I call the Minister. For about the one Honourable members interjected. hundredth time, I am calling for order. If Mr SPEAKER: Order! I would like to honourable members cannot understand that, hear the question, as I am sure Hansard I have a method of getting it through to them. would. Honourable members have had a good Mr HORAN: Even after the disgraceful enough go. We will have some order. campaign of members opposite in 1995 over Mr J. N. GOSS: Would the Minister which the Queensland people almost threw please inform the House of the previous Labor them out of office, recently the new Opposition Government's policy on privatising hospitals spokesperson raised the issue of whether and health services in this State? services such as laundry, cleaning and pathology would be privatised. Firstly, let us Mr HORAN: Interestingly, we heard the look at the policy of members opposite that Opposition Health spokesperson mouthing off was developed in 1994. That policy states— around the State about the so-called privatising of hospitals. If ever a member of ". . . both Queensland Health and the this Parliament has been noted for hypocrisy private health sector have begun to and stupidity, it is the member for Mount Coot- examine how they can best utilise the tha. First of all—— new opportunities for collaboration now available." Mrs EDMOND: I rise to a point of order. Mr Speaker, I beg your indulgence. I do not I will move on. It further states— 2102 Questions Without Notice 7 Aug 1996

"This policy position is intended to hotel services and opportunities exist for support private sector interest in the further involvement." provision of hospital services, including Let us take just a brief snapshot of the infrastructure and support services in a privatisation that occurred under the former variety of ways. Government. I will go through a limited . . . number of examples, say, 19 hospitals, of Existing longstanding arrangements partial or total privatisation in the State under include private sector construction of the former Labor Government. At the Princess hospitals and provision of private sector Alexandra Hospital, pathology, radiology, services in public hospitals." lithotripsy, laser procedures, brachytherapy, neuroradiological surgery and cardiac mapping Further on it states— were privatised. At the Royal Brisbane "The private sector already Hospital, cleaning, lithotripsy, discograms, participates in provision of some video defecograms and ELCB testing were infrastructure support such as hospital privatised. At the Nambour Hospital, laundry hotel services and opportunities exist for and radiology were privatised. At the Cairns further involvement." Hospital, medical imaging, ophthalmology, I will quote the official policy of the previous cleaning, laundry and gardening. The last Government about the public/private example is good. The Opposition relationship. It states— spokesperson has said that the only thing left to be privatised would be gardening. Under "Preferred provider/contractual the Labor Government, gardening services at arrangements between public and private the Cairns Hospital were privatised. hospitals for the treatment of groups of At the Gold Coast Hospital, laundry, public patients, may be considered where security, cleaning, pathology, neonatal there is an imbalance of certain hospital intensive care, nuclear medicine, cerebral services at a local level including specialist angiograms coronary angiograms and services and highly specialised lithotripsy were privatised. At the Toowoomba technology. Hospital, radiography, pathology and The development of joint"—— community health were privatised. The Mrs Edmond: That's collaboration, privatisation of the gardening bobs up again at that's not selling them off. the Redlands Hospital. At the Redlands Hospital, gardening and medical imaging were Mr HORAN: That is exactly what it is. privatised. At the Mackay Hospital, palliative Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the care was privatised. At the Caboolture member for Mount Coot-tha under Standing Hospital, laundry, specialist radiology, security Order 123A. and engineering services were privatised. At Mr HORAN: Further on it states— the Townsville Hospital, nuclear medicine, some mammography tests, biomedical "The development of joint services, orthotics and laundry were privatised. infrastructure and the joint use of existing At the Prince Charles Hospital, radiology was infrastructure will be encouraged. Some privatised. I will address radiology in a minute, examples of opportunities in this area because under the previous Government a include support services such as laundry, special conference was held last year to cleaning and security facilities and examine ways of privatising the radiology services." services within Queensland hospitals. Two I will go on to address the glossy document experts, one from New South Wales and one members opposite produced containing the from South Australia, were brought to that Queensland Health policy for 1994—and conference. printed in the corporate colours. It contains At the Ipswich Hospital, laundry and some key points. It states— nuclear medicine were privatised. At the "This Policy is intended to support Wolston Park Hospital, cleaning was private sector interest in the provision of privatised. At the Logan Hospital, parts of hospital services, including infrastructure radiology were privatised. At Kilcoy Hospital, and support services in a variety of ways." laundry was privatised. At Baillie Henderson, Another key point states— pathology and medical imaging were privatised. At the Wynnum Hospital, gardening "The private sector already bobs up again. Gardening, medical imaging participates in provision of some and the after-hours medical service were infrastructure support such as hospital privatised. At the Oakey Hospital, 7 Aug 1996 Questions Without Notice 2103 physiotherapy was privatised. At the Victorian Parliament. I ask all members to Beaudesert Hospital, biomedical engineering acknowledge them. was privatised. Those are just some of the Honourable members: Hear, hear! services that were privatised or out-sourced under the previous Government, and no doubt Mr SPEAKER: Members might care to for very practical reasons. We have continued think about the fact that, as members of that policy. Every time the Opposition another Chamber, they will return to Victoria spokesperson denigrates the privatisation of and advise people there on the behaviour of services in Queensland, she pays a great members of the Queensland Parliament. disservice to the most historical service of all, the Mater public services—the Mater Mothers', QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE the Mater Children's and the Mater Public, and also the services that are out-sourced in Mr R. Grenning palliative care to the Mount Olivet Hospital. Mr BARTON: I refer the Minister for I referred to a conference held last year. I Police and Corrective Services to his assertion have before me all of the various slides that in the Courier-Mail that his principal policy were shown. This conference was run by the adviser, Mr Russell Grenning, had resigned Brisbane North Regional Health Authority. It due to ill health brought on partly by what the was a conference based upon ways to Minister and Mr Grenning's doctor allege was privatise radiology services. We also heard the disgraceful and discriminatory persecution by Deputy Leader of the Opposition and the the Labor Government. I refer also to the fact former Health Minister say last year that his that, despite the fact that Mr Grenning had been a media adviser to disgraced National Government had no problem with the private Party Minister Russ Hinze, he worked for the sector providing a limited amount of work for Labor Government until May 1992, when his the public sector. So what is the Opposition job disappeared. Mr Grenning was asked to spokesperson about when she says that contact the staff placement unit to discuss his services are going to be privatised? Is she future, but he had gone on sick leave on 21 frightened that we will do the same as former Government members did; that radiologists will April 1992 and did not make any further not be provided at a particular place? We will contact with the unit until it was decided on provide radiologists. We will provide a service medical advice that he should be given a to the people. $300,000 lump sum payment in the second half of 1994 for being permanently disabled— Mrs EDMOND: I rise to a point of order. in other words, he could never work again. I Mr Speaker, the Minister has asked me a ask: is the taxpayer likely to have to pay out question. My answer is that I am frightened any further money now that Mr Grenning has about in-patient ambulatory care and all of the been forced to leave another job on the public things listed in the FitzGerald report. payroll? Could any part of his ill health have Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point arisen in the job he occupied last year with the of order. Would the Minister conclude his Timber Board? answer? Mr COOPER: I guess I had to expect Mr HORAN: In conclusion—what we will this sort of question from the member. He do is continue to provide the good, free public purports to be an honourable and reasonable hospital services that we have already started person, even though he and other Opposition providing. We will continue to reopen wards members like to get up in this place and attack and we will make sure that when people go people on a personal basis—people who they into our hospitals, unlike when they went into know very well cannot defend themselves. The those of members opposite, they will have honourable member uses this place as a accessible and quality services. coward's castle. What sort of people are members opposite, especially the honourable Debate interrupted. member concerned, who should know better? He even likes to bring my daughters into what he tries to make out is disrepute in this place. DISTINGUISHED VISITORS How low will the honourable member go? He Mr SPEAKER: Order! Before I call the could easily get under a snake's belly. He is a honourable member for Waterford, I wish to disgraceful person who loves to attack people advise the Chamber that in the public gallery on a personal basis. He is one great big fat we have a group of Victorian parliamentarians coward. led by the Honourable Mr Strong on behalf of Mr Grenning has a hell of a lot more the Economic Development Committee of the ability and decency than the honourable 2104 Questions Without Notice 7 Aug 1996 member ever purports to have had. It is wrong place when he knows very well that Mr to raise these sorts of matters about anyone. Grenning cannot defend himself is nothing The honourable member knows darned well short of disgraceful and cowardly. that the man has been ill in the past. If the Mr Grenning has my deepest respect. I honourable member had any compassion at sincerely wish him a very speedy recovery. We all, he would realise that one tries to give know that he certainly has been under these people a go, and if the pressure and enormous stress. He is a brilliant person. He stress gets to them in a certain way, then they has worked for many Ministers, be they Labor do the right thing. Mr Grenning was not forced Ministers, Liberal Ministers or National out. He took the honourable course because Ministers. Good luck to them, because they he was ill. Does the honourable member not got the benefit of a brilliant mind. I hope believe it is possible for people to get ill? I sincerely that Mr Grenning will be able to get inform him that it is. If people do become sick, back into business again using his enormous normally others have a bit of compassion for talents and not have to put up with the sort of them. Of course, the honourable member has filth that the honourable member seeks to no compassion for anyone. raise about people who cannot defend Let us recall the way the Labor Party themselves. treated people when it came to Government in 1989. Let us recall the disgraceful treatment of thousands and thousands of decent public Townsville servants. Members opposite are belly-aching Mr TANTI: I refer the Premier to the about a few of their cronies now, but back criticism by some Labor Party members then they sent decent, honourable people to representing Townsville-based electorates of the Gulags. They were forced day after day the State Government's decision to place two after day to sit in a room with no telephone peak load power stations in the Townsville and look at the walls. Some of those public area and criticism by the Opposition Leader of servants did not have the courage to tell their the north Queensland office of the Premier in families what the then Government was doing Townsville, and I ask: can the Premier advise to them. Families broke up and children were what community and industry reaction has deeply affected because of the treatment been to these developments? handed out by the former Government. We do Mr BORBIDGE: I thank the honourable not hear a lot about that now, but members member for his question. opposite can cop it. We will keep bringing it up to remind people of the way they treated Mr Elder interjected. people when they came to Government. Most Mr BORBIDGE: The honourable members opposite are aware of how the then member should take a valium and calm down Government treated those people. It was a bit. nothing short of disgraceful. That treatment Mr Elder: I can't get any; they've run was handed out to people who had no political out. affiliations whatsoever. They were decent, honest public servants. Public servants right Mr BORBIDGE: I will arrange as much across-the-board, including school teachers, as the honourable member needs, and he were treated in a disgraceful manner by the needs a fair bit! former Labor Government. It forced them out The honourable member for of a job. We have never forgotten that poor Mundingburra is, of course, a great champion treatment. and advocate for his electorate. Unfortunately, The honourable member is also well that does not extend across the House. aware that the case of Mr Grenning is before Mr Smith interjected. the Human Rights Commission. I have no Mr BORBIDGE: The honourable knowledge of the honourable member's claims member for Townsville awakens from his in relation to money, but what I do know is that slumber! I thought he had retired. I treat Mr Grenning with the greatest respect. He is a far more decent person than the Mr Lingard: I thought he sold his honourable member will ever be. Mr Grenning house. would not level this type of attack at someone Mr BORBIDGE: I know that he sold his such as the honourable member. I am aware house! That was the longest speech the that the honourable member knows Mr honourable member has made in 12 months. Grenning, and I know that Mr Grenning The reaction in Townsville to the respects the honourable member. For the Government's decision to locate two power honourable member to raise this matter in this stations there has been one of very strong 7 Aug 1996 Questions Without Notice 2105 support. I am disappointed that the shadow I draw the attention of the Leader of the Minister, Mr McGrady, has been critical of the Opposition to the comment that the north decision. I noted from the Townsville Bulletin Queensland office of the Premier is working of 31 July that the member for Townsville, Mr well—the north Queensland office, the Smith— establishment of which was opposed by the ". . . said he was surprised that two peak Leader of the Opposition; the north stations would be built in Townsville and Queensland office which, today, was subject was disappointed a coal-fired station had to absolutely scurrilous and untrue allegations not been adopted, given the potential by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. We problems the area may face . . ." know what the people of Townsville think. They do not think much of him, and they do Mr Smith went on to further criticise the not think much of the Labor Party. decision. Mr Johnson: The railway workers I have to report to the House that the learned, anyway. community response to the Government's decision to provide peak load power in Mr BORBIDGE: My colleague the Townsville which has the capacity to be Minister for Transport reminds me that he has upgraded to base load has been to been spending a fair bit of time with the overwhelmingly endorse the Government's railway workers in Townsville—unlike his Labor decision. My Parliamentary Secretary, Mark predecessors. We certainly appreciate the Stoneman, has received correspondence from support of those railway workers. Townsville Enterprise Limited which I think I am further advised of comments made should be read into Hansard. It is a letter from last Friday by the chief officer of NORQEB, Mr Professor Edward Scott, the chairman, and it Graham Anderson, at the AES Transpower states— launch in Townsville. Mr Anderson has had 40 "Dear Mark years in the power industry in Victoria, New South Wales and, more recently, in Townsville. Yesterday was truly a significant day He described the Queensland Government's in the history of Townsville and North decision as the best ever decision by any Queensland. Government in his time in the industry. We On behalf of both Townsville welcome that sort of support. Obviously, it was Enterprise Limited and myself personally, too much to expect that Labor members I want to place on record appreciation of opposite, particularly the member for the determination and commitment which Townsville and Labor Party members allegedly you showed in supporting our claim for representing Townsville, would support such a base load power in the Townsville Region. major economic development initiative which The announcement yesterday of a this Government has been able to provide. potential base load of 441MW in the medium term gas fired opens up Coachtrans Australia tremendous opportunities for further value-added industry in our Region. Mr PURCELL: I refer the Transport Of particular note is the speed with Minister to a letter sent by the Transport which the Government carried through on Workers Union to the compliance unit within determining strategies for solving the the department on 3 July this year, and I ask: State's power needs. can the Minister confirm that Coachtrans Australia has been forcing employees to work Although we have worked for almost in excess of 12 to 16 hours a day for periods two years in gathering background data up to 14 days straight? Can he confirm that for the former Government, your the former owner of Coachtrans Australia is Government responded positively within the member for Albert and that the Transport three months . . . Workers Union is pursuing that member for Again our sincere appreciation. There non-payment of up to $25,000 in wages for is no doubt the North Queensland Office Coachtrans employees while under his of the Premier is working well. management? What action will the Minister We look forward to continuing our take to ensure the full payment of wages positive relationship with you. owing to Coachtrans employees by the member and that his staff will no longer be Best regards. forced to work dangerously long hours? Yours sincerely Mr JOHNSON: The honourable Ted Scott." member has asked a very in-depth question. I 2106 Questions Without Notice 7 Aug 1996 do not have all the details with which to "He is aware that, under his direction, provide an answer. However, I will say this a new Finance and Administration much. If the member wants to launch a Manager was appointed to a permanent personal attack on the member for Albert, he position on Tuesday, 25 June 1996. That should go ahead. The member is in a position person gave up a high-paying position to defend himself. But I will defend him here and relocated to Brisbane from the Gold today. The situation is that the member for Coast. Just two days later, the Minister Albert is the former owner of Coachtrans. It abolished the QSBC." was a family company. He had other partners I was very much aware of that person and that in that operation. The member for Albert, Bill position that was agreed to by me. However, I Baumann, is a very well-respected did not want to make statements about that businessman. He is a man of great credibility. I yesterday, because I did not have the do not believe that he should have been put background on the case or the information down in the fashion that he has been put that I needed to enlighten this House as to down in this Parliament this morning. If there why I had to appoint that accounting are some technicalities in relation to the manager. Transport Workers Union, I will certainly follow up the allegations the honourable member is Soon after being appointed as a Minister, making. But if he wants to slander the I thought I would take a look around my member for Albert, his company, and his good department and have a look at some of its family name—he picked on the wrong bloke, operations. As the former Minister and Deputy because I will keep taking it up to him all day. Leader of the Opposition would know, the QSBC was under his portfolio in DBIRD. I I will follow on from what my colleague the came across an interesting piece of paper that Minister for Police and Corrective Services and had some quite funny information on it. It Minister for Racing has said. If these are to be referred to the appointment of an Accounting the tactics of members opposite, we will and Administration Manager and stated— certainly expose to the general public of Queensland what they are about. That is a "Following the unfavourable audit shameful thing to do to anybody. If they want report received by the QSBC the contract to address an issue like that with me or my of the Accounting and Administration department, we will certainly take it up. But if Manager was not renewed. This has they are in the business of slandering people, necessitated a need to appoint a I am certainly not party to that, this permanent Manager for this area. The Government is not party to that, and we on position description has been reviewed this side of the House do not condone that and the position will be advertised on type of behaviour. February 24, 1996. In the meantime the Acting Manager, Accounting and Administration, together with the Acting Queensland Small Business General Manager are ensuring that the Corporation QSBC meets all compliance Mr BAUMANN: I ask the Minister for requirements." Tourism, Small Business and Industry to I thought I would go to the Auditor- outline the progress of the Queensland Small General's report and have a look at what the Business Corporation's transition team and, in Auditor-General had to say about the QSBC particular, the status of the Accounting and under the then Minister for DBIRD, the Deputy Administration Manager. I also ask the Leader of the Opposition. The 1994 audit Minister: is there any foundation to the revealed a marked departure from good comments made yesterday in the House by accounting and financial control, which the Deputy Leader of the Opposition— resulted in a substantial number of items intellectual giant and "Minister for Mouth"—in being raised relating to operational regard to this subject? deficiencies. These included: inadequate Mr DAVIDSON: I thank the member for control over the receipting and banking of Albert very much for that question. Being a collections; inappropriate delays in recording businessman like me, he has a real concern expenditure in the general ledger; inadequate that Government goes about its business in procedures in respect to reconciliation the most efficient and professional way. In this between the general ledger and subsidiary House yesterday, the member for Capalaba, accounting records relating to salaries, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, asked inventories, sundry debtors, non-current me a question about the Queensland Small assets, cash advances, accounts and Business Corporation, part of which stated— Government grants received; failure by the 7 Aug 1996 Superannuation Legislation Amendment Bill 2107 board to seek ministerial approval—under the The Arts) (11.31 a.m.), by leave, without former Minister—for the 1994-95 Budget as notice: I move— required under the constituting legislation; a "That leave be granted to bring in a lack of detailed monitoring of the level of Bill for an Act to amend certain Acts about actual expenditure against Budget forecasts superannuation." throughout the year; and discrepancies between the general ledger and various Motion agreed to. control accounts, including sundry debtors and credits. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition was the relevant Minister at that time. First Reading I did a bit more work on this in March. Mr Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and Stewart, the chairperson of the Queensland Bill, on motion of Mrs Sheldon, read a first Small Business Corporation, was written to on time. 23 October 1995 by Mr Rollason, the Auditor- General. That letter stated— "The audit brought to light a Second Reading significant number of issues which have Hon. J. M. SHELDON (Caloundra— been discussed fully with the General Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for Manager and of which details are given in The Arts) (11.32 a.m.): I move— the attachment to this letter." "That the Bill be now read a second I will table this letter. In short, it says— time." "In view of the wide ranging nature of The purpose of the Bill is to amend the matters raised by audit, I have superannuation legislation to ensure that advised both the Treasurer and the superannuation benefits of certain Minister for Business, Industry and Government employees are not affected by Regional Development of the audit restructuring of industrial awards. The Q Super outcome." and State Super schemes are multiple of I table that letter dated 23 October. salary superannuation schemes, with benefits What did the Minister, Mr Hayward, do increasing by promotional and general after receiving the 1994-95 report for which he productivity rises. Under industrial agreements was responsible? He decided to organise negotiated for a number of Department of some consultants to prepare a report. The Transport employees between 1993 and preparation of that report continued for about 1995, an aggregated salary became payable. three, four or five months. When we were The new aggregated salary rolled appointed to Government in February, nothing together the original base salary, a productivity at all had been done to correct the increase and certain allowances. The Q Super deficiencies that the Auditor-General had and State Service superannuation schemes found in the department while Mr Hayward do not ordinarily include these allowances in was Minister. As a matter of urgency, in salary for the purpose of determining the level response to letters and correspondence that I of superannuation entitlement. However, the received from the Acting Manager of the aggregation of wages has meant that salary Queensland Small Business Corporation and for superannuation purposes for 61 the chairman of the board, I approved the employees has automatically included appointment of the financial accounting previous allowances, with superannuable manager. salary increased by up to 85 per cent. In Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time for contrast, take home pay, apart from the questions has now expired. I call the Deputy productivity increase, was barely altered. Premier and Treasurer. Investigations indicate that the salary Mr Elder interjected. restructure caused an immediate accidental Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for increase in the value of superannuation Capalaba will withdraw that remark. entitlements of nearly $1.2m over and above Mr ELDER: I withdraw. the productivity increase. Individual benefit increases vary according to salary and fund membership. These benefit increases of up to SUPERANNUATION LEGISLATION $115,000 were never intended and are not AMENDMENT BILL able to be funded within the Department of Hon. J. M. SHELDON (Caloundra— Transport, nor is it equitable that a few Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for scheme members receive windfall gains. 2108 Consumer Credit Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996

Consequently, it is proposed to amend (11.36 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I the superannuation legislation to ensure that move— the salary restructuring negotiated for sections "That leave be granted to bring in a of the marine operations area has no effect on Bill for an Act to amend legislation about past superannuation entitlements. Past dollar consumer credit." benefits will be increased by the expected productivity increase, but the increase resulting Motion agreed to. from the aggregation of allowances will apply only to future benefits for which the First Reading department and members will be contributing. The Bill allows the recovery of overpaid Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and benefits, should this occur. Bill, on motion of Mr Beanland, read a first Where a change to superannuation time. benefits is unintended, Commonwealth superannuation legislation allows correction Second Reading where the correction is solely for the purpose of rectifying an error in the granting of an Hon. D. E. BEANLAND (Indooroopilly— increase. The proposed amendment is Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) consistent with the Commonwealth (11.37 a.m.): I move— Government legislation. "That the Bill be now read a second This is the second case in recent times time." where a restructure of conditions of This Bill places the finishing touches to employment has had a significant, the package of reforms in the area of retrospective and unintended impact on consumer credit which began with the superannuable benefits. A similar amendment passage of the Consumer Credit (Queensland) was made by the previous Government to Act 1994 in September of that year. The maintain superannuation benefits in 1995. A Consumer Credit (Queensland) Act contains, third case is currently under investigation. as an appendix, the Consumer Credit Whilst the large increases in benefits are of (Queensland) Code. That code forms the concern to the Government, there have also basis of a national scheme of new consumer been instances where salary restructuring has credit laws. It resulted from a formal reduced members' benefits, which is clearly agreement, called the Uniform Consumer not acceptable. In view of the continued Credit Laws Agreement 1993, which was restructuring of conditions of employment in entered into by the Governments of all the Queensland public sector, it is also Australian States and Territories. proposed to insert a restricted power for the The agreement provided that legislation Governor in Council to make corrections to enacting the uniform consumer credit laws, benefits if such instances occur in the future. known as the Consumer Credit Code, would The use of the power is restricted to the be initially introduced into the Queensland situation where the Governor in Council is Parliament. Upon passage of the code in satisfied both that the superannuation effects Queensland, each State and Territory then of an award change were unintended and that became obliged either to pass legislation the change should not proceed. applying the code to its own jurisdiction, or to There is obviously a need to have a pass alternative consistent legislation. power which can be quickly used rather than overpaying benefits and attempting to recover In accordance with the Uniform Consumer Credit Laws Agreement, both Territories and the overpayment after legislation is passed. As all of the States, except for Tasmania and the power is regulatory in nature, it is subject to disallowance by the Legislative Assembly, Western Australia, have now passed the and as indicated earlier, the power might necessary application of laws legislation for the equally be applied to protect benefits for code. At the time of its passage by this House employees. I commend the Bill to the House. in 1994, it was believed that the code would come into effect throughout Australia in the Debate, on motion of Mr Hamill, last quarter of 1995. This ultimately proved adjourned. unachievable. However, on 27 June this year, a proclamation was made by the Deputy CONSUMER CREDIT LEGISLATION Governor fixing 1 November 1996 as the AMENDMENT BILL commencement date for the code. Hon. D. E. BEANLAND (Indooroopilly— The broad purpose of this Bill is to put in Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) place the necessary administrative 7 Aug 1996 Consumer Credit Legislation Amendment Bill 2109 arrangements for the code prior to its prohibited person is not entitled to payment of commencement. The Bill repeals those parts any amount under that credit contract. Any of the Credit Act 1987 which contain provisions payment made to the credit provider is relating to the Consumer Credit Fund, the recoverable as a debt. The Bill introduces negative licensing of credit providers, the substantial penalties for contravention. For investigative and enforcement powers of example, for a breach of a conduct deed, or departmental officers and various other for a failure to comply with a court order matters to do with the administration of the restraining unjust conduct, the court may Credit Act. New provisions covering these impose a penalty of 500 penalty units. matters have been inserted into the Consumer A large part of the Bill contains Credit (Queensland) Act 1994 and will apply to investigative and enforcement powers for the both that Act as well as the Credit Act 1987. monitoring and enforcement of the Credit Act Turning to the specific provisions of the 1987 and the Consumer Credit (Queensland) Bill, honourable members will note that this Bill Act 1994. Most of the powers are given to continues the negative licensing of credit those persons appointed as inspectors by the providers in Queensland after the chief executive of the department. The Bill commencement of the code. The Bill grants these inspectors powers of entry, recognises the District Court as the appropriate search, inspection and seizure. Other powers forum for the enforcement of the negative conferred by the Bill include the power to licensing system. Under this system, there is require a person to state the person's name no need for a credit provider to obtain a and address and, subject to appropriate licence before commencing business. limitations, power to require production of documents relating to a credit business or to If a credit provider engages in unjust require a person to give information about an conduct, the chief executive of the relevant offence against a consumer credit law. department has a number of options. The chief executive can request the credit provider Under the Credit Act 1987, credit to execute a conduct deed, under which the providers who breach certain provisions of that credit provider agrees to desist from the unjust Act automatically lose the credit charges under conduct and, where necessary, rectify the the contracts affected by the breach and must consequences of its past conduct. The chief apply to the court for reinstatement of those executive may apply to the court for an order charges. These applications are known as civil enforcing compliance with the deed. penalty applications. When a civil penalty Alternatively, the chief executive may make an application is made, the court has a discretion application to the court for an order to prevent as to whether to restore all, or part, or none of the credit provider from engaging in the unjust the credit charges in issue. conduct. The court will make such an order if In 1994, the Credit Act was amended to satisfied that the credit provider has repeatedly establish the Consumer Credit Fund and to engaged in unjust conduct. give the court power, in certain circumstances, to order a credit provider involved in a civil Under the negative licensing system penalty application to pay an amount into the established by the Bill, the chief executive may fund. The Consumer Credit (Queensland) also apply to the court for a prohibition order. Code does not provide for automatic forfeiture A prohibition order either prohibits a person of credit charges. However, in the event of a from providing consumer credit, or restricts the breach of a key requirement of the code, a way a person may provide consumer credit. credit provider faces a substantial penalty. The The Bill sets out the various matters which code requires a civil penalty imposed by a must be considered by the court when court to be paid, in certain circumstances, to a deciding whether to make a prohibition order. statutory fund established for such a purpose. This includes such matters as whether the This Bill repeals those parts of the Credit Act credit provider has been convicted of an which relate to the Consumer Credit Fund and offence against a consumer credit law, has establishes the fund under the Consumer repeatedly engaged in unjust conduct, or has Credit (Queensland) Act. However, it also contravened a conduct deed which the credit makes it clear that the fund is a continuation provider has executed. of the fund previously established under the The Bill contains a new provision which Credit Act. The fund will be able to receive does not appear in the existing negative payments awarded by the courts in respect of licensing scheme under the Credit Act. If a civil penalty applications under both the Credit person provides consumer credit in Act 1987 and the Consumer Credit contravention of a prohibition order, the (Queensland) Code. 2110 Credit (Rural Finance) Bill 7 Aug 1996

The Bill provides that the Minister may This Bill has its origins in section 116 of approve payments from the fund for financial the Credit Act 1987. Section 116 of the Credit counselling services to consumers, legal Act allows farmers to apply to a court for a advice to consumers on consumer credit and moratorium of up to 12 months against the anything which improves knowledge about repossession of farm machinery by a consumer credit. It also grants the chief mortgagee under a mortgage regulated by the executive a discretion to approve payments Act. The court will order a moratorium if the from the fund for certain specified purposes. farmer has a reasonable prospect of being Finally, the Bill contains a number of able to satisfy the default within a period of 12 clauses amending the Credit Act in order to months. I have been informed that this clarify the application of that Act to credit particular section of the Credit Act has been contracts after the commencement of the useful for Queensland farmers. code. Although the Credit Act will not be On a number of occasions, credit repealed, its importance will diminish more and providers have tried to seize farming more over time. The Bill also contains some equipment on the very eve of harvest, when necessary amendments to the Hire-Purchase the farmer's need for the equipment has been Act 1959 and the Bills of Sale and Other greatest. Farmers have been able to stave off Instruments Act 1955. the threatened repossession by the financier This Bill establishes a practical and cost- by invoking the provisions of section 116. effective framework for the administration of However, once the Consumer Credit the new consumer credit laws. I commend the (Queensland) Code commences on 1 Bill to the House. November, farmers entering into new credit contracts for the purchase of farming Debate, on motion of Ms Spence, equipment will not come within the ambit of adjourned. the code. Farming these days is a business, and as CREDIT (RURAL FINANCE) BILL the code will only apply to credit provided for a personal, domestic or household purpose, Hon. D. E. BEANLAND (Indooroopilly— credit extended to a farmer for the purchase of Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) farming equipment will be outside its scope. (11.44 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I Without specific legislation, an increasing move— number of farmers will not be able to apply to "That leave be granted to bring in a a court for a moratorium against the Bill for an Act to give some protection to repossession of their farming equipment. farmers against the enforcement of Queensland, however, has noted the mortgages over equipment used for concerns of the rural community. The farming." moratorium provisions given to farmers by Motion agreed to. section 116 of the Credit Act will be continued as far as possible by this Bill which will come into effect at the same time as the code. First Reading Turning to the specific provisions of the Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and Bill, honourable members will note that the Bill Bill, on motion of Mr Beanland, read a first requires every mortgagee that has a right time. under a mortgage over farm equipment to take possession of, or sell, the equipment to give a default notice to the mortgagor prior to Second Reading exercising that right. The default notice must Hon. D. E. BEANLAND (Indooroopilly— include a statement that the mortgagee Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) intends to take possession of, or sell, the (11.45 a.m.): I move— equipment on or after a stated date. This date must be at least 30 days after the day the "That the Bill be now read a second notice is given to the mortgagor. time." The requirement that the mortgagee give The purpose of this Bill is to provide some the mortgagor a default notice applies in protection for Queensland farmers against the almost every case, although there are some repossession of their farm equipment by limited exceptions provided for in the Bill. mortgagees. The Credit Act 1987 regulates These exceptions include occasions where the credit provided to farmers for the acquisition of mortgagee reasonably believes the mortgagor their farm machinery. has removed or disposed of the equipment in 7 Aug 1996 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 2111 contravention of the mortgage, or where it is Governments can do little about. However, this necessary for the mortgagee to take Bill should prove a useful tool for the rural possession urgently to protect the equipment. community by giving embattled farmers some The only other exceptions are where the relief when it is most needed and an mortgagee reasonably believes it was induced opportunity to pursue their livelihoods. I by fraud by the mortgagor to enter into the commend the Bill to the House. mortgage, where the mortgagee has Debate, on motion of Ms Spence, unsuccessfully made all reasonable attempts adjourned. to find the mortgagor, or where a court has ordered that the mortgagee may take possession of the equipment without issuing a HEALTH LEGISLATION AMENDMENT default notice. The onus, however, is always BILL on the mortgagee to prove it does not have to Hon. M. J. HORAN (Toowoomba give a default notice because it falls within one South—Minister for Health) (11.50 a.m.), by of the exceptions. leave, without notice: I move— Once the mortgagor has received a "That leave be granted to bring in a default notice, or if the mortgagor believes that Bill for an Act to amend certain Acts the mortgagee may exercise a right under the administered by the Minister for Health, mortgage to take possession of, or sell, the and for other purposes." equipment then the mortgagor has standing to apply to the court for a relieving order. Once Motion agreed to. the mortgagee receives notice of the application, a mortgagor's farm machinery will First Reading be protected until the court orders otherwise or the application by the mortgagor is withdrawn Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and or dismissed. Bill, on motion of Mr Horan, read a first time. When considering the application for the relieving order, the court must consider Second Reading whether the mortgagor has a reasonable Hon. M. J. HORAN (Toowoomba prospect of being able to remedy the default South—Minister for Health) (11.51 a.m.): I within a period of one year. The court must move— also consider other matters, including how necessary the equipment is to the mortgagor "That the Bill be now read a second in carrying out his or her farming business. If time." satisfied on these matters, the court may Putting the patient first means quality make a relieving order protecting a health service by qualified professionals. This mortgagee's farm equipment for up to one Assembly has ensured that quality through a year. set of important Acts, which are the health Substantial penalties are provided for in professional registration Acts. The purpose of the Bill because a breach of its provisions this Bill is to amend five of these Acts and to could cause severe hardship to a farmer. In make a machinery amendment to the Statute addition, it is an offence to contract out of the Law Revision Act 1995. The amendment of Bill, or to try to modify its effect, and any such these Acts will ensure that they remain provision in a document is void. As the Bill effective in guaranteeing that the patient continues the effect of section 116 of the comes first. Although this is a mechanical Bill, Credit Act 1987, it will apply only to individual it is an important Bill. The Acts it amends are farmers, not corporate farmers. the machinery which ensures that Queensland patients have access to quality professional Finally, it should be noted that the service and, to ensure this, it is important that provisions of this Bill will complement section the machinery is constantly fine tuned, as it is 30 of the Hire-Purchase Act 1959. This by this Bill. provision of the Hire-Purchase Act allows a farmer who hires farming goods under a hire- I will deal with amendments of substance purchase agreement to apply to a court for a in the order they appear in the Bill. The moratorium of up to 12 months against definition of "dental company" in the Dental repossession of the goods by the owner. Act is amended so that dental companies incorporated anywhere in Australia and I am pleased that Queensland, alone of providing dental services in Queensland are the Credit Act jurisdictions, is continuing to subject to the provisions of the Act. The protect the interests of farmers in this way. definition "dangerous drug" in the Health Act is Farmers face so many problems which omitted and a new definition "controlled drug" 2112 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 is inserted to ensure consistency in are subject to the provisions of the Act. A terminology with the Standard for the Uniform significant amendment to the Medical Act Scheduling of Drugs and Poisons published by relates to the appointment of the President of the Commonwealth. The definition "drug the Medical Board of Queensland. The Act dependant person" is expanded to include currently provides that the Chief Health Officer, poisons to take into account that certain drugs Department of Health, is ex officio president such as heroin are now scheduled as poisons and a member of the Medical Board. The dual under the Act. role of Chief Health Officer and President of Further amendments to the Health Act the Medical Board raises potential conflict of relate to the use of lead in paint. Provisions interest issues and may compromise the dealing with paint are omitted and a new Medical Board's independence from the Division 3A is inserted. New provisions require department. The Act is therefore to be those manufacturing, selling, supplying or amended to provide that the president be a using paint to comply with Appendix P of the medical practitioner member of the board Standard for the Uniform Scheduling of Drugs appointed by the Governor in Council. and Poisons. Appendix P contains model However, so that the link between the provisions relating to the use of lead in paint department and the board is maintained, the and to the packaging and labelling of paint. It Act will continue to provide that the Chief has been adopted by most other Australian Health Officer be an ex officio member of the States and Territories. New provisions also board. allow departmental officers to take samples of The other significant amendments to the paint from premises for examination or Medical Act are to the savings and transitional analysis for the purpose of monitoring provisions in Part 13. The first of these clarifies compliance with Appendix P. Enforcement that the transitional arrangements in section provisions allow the Chief Health Officer to give 88 apply to medical specialists as well as a notice requiring a contravention of Appendix medical practitioners. The amendment is to P to be rectified with a penalty for non- commence retrospectively so that medical compliance with such notice. specialists who were registered under repealed The other significant amendments to the provisions of the Act have continuity of Health Act relate to pest control operators. registration. Secondly, a new section 88A is New provisions are inserted prohibiting inserted which validates the registration of unlicensed pest control operators from using certain medical specialists and provides that pesticides other than in the presence, and those specialists are also taken to have been under the personal supervision, of a licensee. registered as medical practitioners. The These provisions replace the current offence section is necessary to remove doubts as to provision in section 131(K)(2) to overcome the validity of the registration of these difficulties in its interpretation and practitioners as the Medical Board only enforcement. In addition, new provisions registered these practitioners as specialists, prohibit a licensed pest control operator from whereas the Act requires registration both as a permitting persons under 18 years from using, medical practitioner and a specialist. as well as preparing, pesticides for use in The Bill contains a considerable number connection with a licensee's activities. of amendments to the Nursing Act. The majority of these amendments are necessary The major amendment to the Hospitals to correct deficiencies and inconsistencies Foundations Act is the omission of the identified by the Queensland Nursing Council definition "the associated hospital" and the in administering the Act. Amendments to the insertion of the definition "associated hospital". Act will allow members of the council to The effect of the amendment will be that a participate in council meetings by telephone or body corporate constituting a hospital other forms of communication. A new section foundation will be able to pursue its objects 16A provides a means by which the council with more than one hospital. The amendment may pass a resolution without conducting a provides scope for smaller hospitals to be covered by a single foundation, but is not meeting. However, this section is intended to intended to be used as a means by which be used only in exceptional circumstances existing foundations could be forced to where it is impractical for a resolution to be amalgamate. passed at a meeting. Further amendments allow council members and other persons The definition of "medical company" in entitled under the Act to be paid fees and the Medical Act is amended so that medical allowances to waive payment of the same. companies incorporated anywhere in Australia This is to overcome complications in relation to and providing medical services in Queensland public sector employees who are ineligible 7 Aug 1996 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 2113 under Government policy to retain fees paid to provide that, upon suspension of a nurse, the them under the Act. council must investigate the matter and either The provisions of the Act dealing with the lift the suspension or refer a charge against register and roll are amended in two respects. the nurse to the Professional Conduct Firstly, to address privacy concerns a provision Committee alleging a contravention of the is inserted whereby a by-law may prescribe code of conduct. Complementary what personal particulars concerning nurses in amendments are made to the Act which the register or roll may not be inspected by the trigger the investigative powers in the Act in public. Secondly, a new provision formalises these circumstances. the council's existing practice of providing The Act is to be amended to allow the information from the register or roll to the council to cancel or suspend the registration or Australian Nursing Council Incorporated for enrolment of a nurse whose registration or recording in a national database. enrolment has been cancelled or suspended A significant amendment to the Nursing under a law of a foreign country. Amendments Act relates to registration requirements. to the Act also remove the requirement in Currently, the Act entitles a person to be certain circumstances for items such as licence registered as a nurse if the person has the certificates and badges to be surrendered to necessary educational qualifications and the council when a nurse's registration is satisfies health and English language cancelled. The enforcement of this provision requirements. These registration requirements by the council in these circumstances has have been shown to be deficient where proved to be impractical and of no public persons possess the qualifications for benefit. The provisions of the Act dealing with registration but have practised whilst restoration of registration following non- unregistered and where persons were payment of the annual licence fee are to be deregistered under the repealed Nursing Act amended to remove the time limitation for the 1976. If such persons apply for registration payment of the restoration fee. The recency of and satisfy the current registration practice requirements for restoration of requirements, the council must re-register the registration make it immaterial when this fee is person even if the person's prior conduct may paid. The provisions are also reworked to indicate the person is not competent or fit to ensure consistency with section 75 of the Act, practise nursing. I am sure members will agree which deals with renewal of annual licence that, in the interests of public health and certificates. safety, a mechanism is needed so that the Amendments to the Act will increase, from council has discretion as to whether such 8 to 16, the number of members on the panel persons should be registered. from which the Professional Conduct To achieve this, a new section 54(2A) Committee is drawn. A larger panel is needed extends the qualifications for registration as a so that sufficient persons are available for the nurse to include a requirement that a person committee to be constituted to deal with its must satisfy the council that the person is increasing caseload. The Act is also to be competent and fit to practise nursing. This will amended to clarify the powers of the chairman allow the council to take into account a range of the Professional Conduct Committee in of factors, such as whether the applicant has relation to preliminary or directions hearings. engaged in any inappropriate conduct whilst The final amendment of substance to the practising nursing or has committed any Nursing Act is to specify a time period within offence which may reflect upon the person's which prosecutions under the Act must be competence or fitness to practise nursing. commenced. Similar amendments are made to sections Finally, I draw the attention of honourable 72(1) and 74(6) so that the same requirement members to a number of machinery will apply in relation to persons seeking to amendments which ensure the legislation is have their registration restored under those up to date and up to standard. These include provisions. the repeal of redundant provisions, a Further amendments to the Act deal with reworking of definitions and the repeal or the council suspending a nurse because of insertion of various terms to ensure the nurse's conduct. The Act currently does consistency in terminology throughout the not provide a mechanism enabling the Acts. I commend the Bill to the House. Professional Conduct Committee to adjudicate Debate, on motion of Mrs Edmond, on the alleged misconduct. The amendments adjourned. 2114 Queensland Tourist and Travel Corporation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996

QUEENSLAND TOURIST AND TRAVEL management framework that enhances the CORPORATION AMENDMENT BILL depth and diversity of expertise available to Hon. B. W. DAVIDSON (Noosa— it—an essential ingredient if the QTTC is to Minister for Tourism, Small Business and effectively service the Queensland tourism Industry) (12 noon), by leave, without notice: I industry up to and beyond 2000. move— The new requirement for consideration to "That leave be granted to bring in a be given to board appointees' business and Bill for an Act to amend the Queensland financial management expertise will ensure Tourist and Travel Corporation Act 1979, that the decisions of the board reflect the and for other purposes." nature of the issues confronting the industry, and that the strategies it formulates Motion agreed to. adequately address the many issues facing both the small tourism operator and the larger First Reading corporate investor. Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and In today's competitive business Bill, on motion of Mr Davidson, read a first environment there is no room for time. complacency, and the tourism industry is no different. By limiting the tenure of board members to six consecutive years, the industry Second Reading can be assured that this Government has Hon. B. W. DAVIDSON (Noosa— moved to ensure that the management of the Minister for Tourism, Small Business and QTTC remains alert to the needs of the Industry) (12.01 p.m.): I move— industry. In amending the QTTC Act to provide the corporation with the managerial direction "That the Bill be now read a second required to take it and the Queensland tourism time." industry into the next century, I am also taking Today, I am introducing amendments the opportunity to remove some of the Act's which will restructure the membership of the obsolete provisions. Following the sale of the Queensland Tourist and Travel Corporation— Australian Travel and Leisure Automated QTTC—remove some of the obsolete System (ATLAS), and with the QTTC's primary provisions of the QTTC Act 1979 and extend focus now on marketing and promoting the termination date of the Indy Car Grand Queensland, there is no longer a requirement Prix Act 1990. for the corporation to maintain a number of Tourism is one of the State's fastest separate funds. growing export industries. In 1995, As I stated earlier, this Bill also provides Queensland tourism generated $7.7 billion in for the extension of the termination date of the expenditure, or around 10 per cent of Indy Car Grand Prix Act 1990 from 31 Queensland's gross State product. An December 1996 to 31 December 2000. The estimated 122,000 people were employed in agreement between the event promoter, the tourism jobs in 1994, the equivalent of 8.5 per Gold Coast Motor Events Co, and the world cent of the total work force. sanctioning body for indy car racing, Tourism markets are becoming Championship Auto Racing Teams Inc. increasingly competitive, both internationally (CART), provides for the event to be staged in and domestically. Tourism businesses in 1997 and 1998, with a further option for 1999 Queensland need to continually increase their and 2000. performance and profitability in order to The amendment to the Act reflects the prosper in this increasingly competitive market. provisions of the agreement with CART and The QTTC is the State's primary agency for this Government's decision to continue marketing, promoting, wholesaling and financial support to the event which, in 1996, retailing Queensland's tourism assets. To injected an estimated $35m into the State's effectively compete both within Australia and economy and helped maintain 591 overseas, the QTTC needs a board of Queensland jobs. management whose experience and expertise The amendments I introduce to the match the diversity of Queensland's tourism House today will ensure that the Queensland product and which effectively positions the tourism industry is served by a Tourist and corporation to meet head on the challenges Travel Corporation that is well managed and confronting tourism in Queensland. appropriately focused, with a vision that is in By increasing the number of members on tune with the needs of the industry and the the board, the QTTC will be provided with a challenges of the future. They also ensure that 7 Aug 1996 Sports Drug Testing Bill 2115 the Gold Coast Indy Car Australia Carnival is It is important that those elite athletes retained as the State's foremost tourism representing Queensland or receiving State promotion vehicle and one of Australia's major Government financial assistance, and who annual events. might ultimately aspire to represent Australia in Debate, on motion of Mrs Bird, adjourned. sporting competition, reject the use of performance enhancing drugs in Queensland competition. It is expected that this Bill will SPORTS DRUG TESTING BILL actively discourage the use of performance Hon. M. D. VEIVERS (Southport— enhancing drugs in sport throughout Minister for Emergency Services and Minister Queensland. As a result, younger competitors for Sport) (12.05 p.m.), by leave, without will be encouraged to emulate drug-free role notice: I move— models from amongst the State's elite competitors. "That leave be granted to bring in a Bill for an Act to enable the Australian Though public support for the Sports Drug Agency to carry out sports maintenance of drug-free sporting competition drug testing on State competitors, and for is widespread in Queensland and was clearly related purposes." expressed by all key State sporting bodies Motion agreed to. during extensive consultation by the Government, any form of mandatory drug testing has the potential to infringe individual First Reading rights and liberties. This Government has Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and ensured that the legislation affords the best Bill, on motion of Mr Veivers, read a first time. protection possible for these rights and liberties. For instance, the Australian Sports Drug Agency is the only agency authorised to Second Reading conduct drug testing and sampling, and is Hon. M. D. VEIVERS (Southport— required to discharge these functions in a Minister for Emergency Services and Minister secure and confidential manner using only for Sport) (12.06 p.m.): I move— accredited laboratories. "That the Bill be now read a second Severe penalties have been included in time." the legislation to ensure that information relating to a positive drug test result by a An earlier version of this Bill was competitor or the failure of a competitor to introduced to the House on 5 September supply a sample for testing when requested by 1995, and it lapsed with the change of Australian Sports Drug Agency is not disclosed Government. Minor changes to the Bill which to unauthorised persons. The only people who were to be incorporated during the Committee will be authorised to see such information are stage have been included in the Bill which is officers of Australian Sports Drug Agency and now before the House. This is a Bill which its related laboratories, and authorised officers demonstrates the Queensland Government's of the Office of Sport and Recreation. commitment to the fair pursuit of sporting excellence and drug-free sport in this State. In addition, the Australian Sports Drug The Australian Sports Drug Agency was Agency may only conduct testing for the established by the Commonwealth purpose of ascertaining whether a competitor Government to ensure fair play in national- has used a performance enhancing drug. A level sporting competition. The agency positive test result or failure to supply a test conducts independent drug sampling and sample does not imply any civil or criminal testing of athletes at the national level of liability on a competitor, and opportunities to competition, but does not have jurisdiction show reasonable cause for such a result are over Queensland athletes competing at State provided by the legislation. In addition, level. This Bill allows for this important next competitors may appeal an Australian Sports step to be taken, whereby a drug sampling Drug Agency decision to the Commonwealth and testing program can be established in Administrative Appeals Tribunal. Queensland, at very little cost, to discourage This legislation does not herald any drug use by State competitors and protect the attempt by this Government to introduce State Government's financial investment in widespread drug testing for the people of all sport. This goal is principally achieved by the ages throughout Queensland who play sport extension of the Australian Sports Drug for recreational and social reasons. However, it Agency program to include Queensland's elite would be naive to think that the pressure to athletes. use performance enhancing drugs does not 2116 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 exist in younger age groups competing at the Register of Notifiable Events. The Australian State representative level. For this reason, the Sports Drug Agency must then notify the legislation provides for the testing of persons competitor concerned, the chief executive under 18 years of age. However, this only officer of any State agency which had concerns elite State representatives, and then previously supplied financial support to that only with parental or guardian consent and competitor, and the head of the sporting supervision. organisation to which the competitor This Government does not seek to belonged. establish itself as the judicial body This Bill will enable the Australian Sports administering the penalties appropriate for Drug Agency to implement a Queensland drug competitors who use drugs in sport. The testing program which complements the legislation requires the Australian Sports Drug national drug testing program, thereby Agency to make all decisions concerning discouraging the use of performance- which athletes are selected for testing, and enhancing drugs by elite-level athletes in this subject to Commonwealth regulations, the State. The Bill represents the best opportunity manner and time in which samples are to be to advance the spirit of fair and drug-free collected and tested. competition in line with this Government's commitment to the development of sport at all After the sample has been tested, the levels throughout this State. agency must decide whether a test result is valid or invalid. If a competitor returns a I commend the Bill to the House. positive test result, the Australian Sports Drug Debate, on motion of Mr Elder, Agency must inform the competitor of a adjourned. positive test result and invite the competitor to submit any information regarding the positive test result. After considering this, the agency JUVENILE JUSTICE LEGISLATION must decide upon the validity of the test result. AMENDMENT BILL This provides another safeguard to ensure Resumption of Committee that athletes must be informed and may provide reasonable explanations about the Debate resumed from 6 August (see testing process or results. p. 2064) on clause 7— The Australian Sports Drug Agency is also Mr BEANLAND (12.15 p.m.): When we reported progress last evening, the member responsible for entering the names of those for Yeronga had raised questions in relation to competitors who fail to provide a sample the transfer of juvenile detention centres from without adequate explanation, or return a the Department of Families to the Corrective positive drug test result without adequate Services Commission. I want to state quite explanation, into a Register of Notifiable clearly that there will be appropriate training Events. Subsequent to such an entry being courses. I want to go through a few issues that made, the Australian Sports Drug Agency will have alarmed me regarding the current advise the competitor concerned, the chief arrangements, which have been in place for executive officer of any State agency which some time. supplies financial support to that competitor, and the head of the sporting organisation to Some time ago, there had been a large which the competitor belongs. number of escapes and all sorts of other problems in relation to the running of these At this point I would stress that the centres. In 1994-95 the Queensland Government is not in any way involved in any Corrective Services Commission was subsequent decisions to suspend or otherwise requested by the former Department of Family prevent the competitor concerned from Services and Aboriginal and Islander Affairs to participating in their chosen sport. Any provide urgent assistance to the youth decision of this nature is made by the sporting detention centres in south-east Queensland organisation to which the competitor belongs. as a consequence of an increase in the However, the very nature and intent of this number of escapes and other major reportable legislation makes clear the Government's incidents, including assaults. In 1994-95 there position on the use of drugs in sport. were 107 escapes—31 from the Sir Leslie Upon the conclusion of a period of Wilson Centre, 74 from John Oxley and four suspension, or where the Commonwealth from the Cleveland centre at Townsville. In Administrative Appeals Tribunal overturns a 1995-96 there have been five escapes in total decision of the Australian Sports Drug Agency, and two separate escapes from the juvenile the competitor's name is deleted from the courts complex on Coronation Drive. 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2117

I mentioned yesterday how the former have been put in place in these centres. I Government even went to the lengths of highlighted this some time ago when I was calling in ASIO, the spy agency. I am not sure sitting on the Opposition side of the Chamber exactly what that was meant to achieve. Back and wearing a different hat. on 25 February 1995, a report was provided to We are all aware of the range of escapes. the former Government in relation to some of Back on 13 December 1994—how well I these problems. It was commissioned by the remember it—it was reported that the then then Department of Family Services in Family Services Minister stated that the State's December 1994 and it was carried out by the most dangerous juvenile criminals could be Queensland Corrective Services Commission. isolated in special gaols under a proposed The report was commissioned because of the revamp of the juvenile justice system. The exceedingly high number of escapes and then Minister admitted that the State's juvenile problems in youth detention centres and the justice laws were flawed. She also warned that situation that flowed from them, including the society was producing children with depths of inappropriate management programs then in criminality not seen before. From 16 October place under the auspices of the then Family to 13 December 1994, 13 inmates had fled Services Department. the Sir Leslie Wilson Centre in suburban The Queensland Corrective Services Windsor and the John Oxley Centre at Wacol. Commission found that, as at December I went a little further and checked out 1994,FamilyServiceshadno comprehensive— what was actually taking place at some of I repeat "no comprehensive"—training these detention centres. I mentioned program for any staff associated with juvenile yesterday the need for putting in place detention centres. The Corrective Services rehabilitation programs. I became even more Commission determined during this alarmed to find that children were going before assessment that an assessment be the Childrens Court and the good judge was undertaken between December 1994 and the asking them questions about whether they end of January 1995. As I mentioned, the were at school—whether they were learning assessment was commissioned by Family something—and the answer inevitably came Services because of the exceedingly high back, "No." This applies particularly to juvenile number of escapes. The Queensland offenders who are held in custody on remand. Corrective Services Commission undertook I do not know why that occurs. There is some development of a comprehensive training sort of story about their being there only for a program package and recommended its short period. I put it to the Committee that if immediate implementation, which included the these youths are detained for three or four involvement of the Corrective Services months—and perhaps longer in some Commission Staff Development Centre. Part cases—then that is not a particularly short of the training took place, but it stopped under period, and they should at least be the previous Government. I am not sure of the undertaking courses such as personal reason for that. It could have been a lack of development, education and so on. There is a funds; it could have been a policy decision, whole range of things. Those children have but I am not familiar with the reason. At the not been going to school. I am not making this same time, the number of staff in the up. This is what those children have been detention centres was increased to cope with saying to the judge time after time. There are the security problems and the consequences grave problems with the current system. of the Westbrook riots in 1995. These staff were not trained. I believe that the Corrective Services Commission is in a position to handle this It is Queensland Corrective Services matter and cope with it appropriately by Commission policy to put all of its staff through putting in place the various programs that induction courses, and casual staff have to do need to be in place. Yesterday in this courses as well. Full-time permanent staff Chamber I mentioned a range of programs. I have to undertake up to nine weeks of full- will go through them again. The programs will time training courses, which was simply not include personal development, education, occurring under the former Family Services vocational training, recreational training, Department. Permanent staff perform different substance abuse programs, sexual abuse duties from casual staff—we all know programs, anger management programs, that—and they therefore require intensive important cultural programs and development training. I want to say to the Committee that I of a work ethos. A separate directorate or am appalled—and I am not trying to have a division will certainly be set up. One issue go at anyone here—at the lack of training that raised was that people can be transferred. has taken place and the lack of programs that People get transferred now. The point is that, 2118 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 if they do go into that sector, first of all they will on the second reading of the Bill. I am be subject to the appropriate training courses vehemently opposed to putting young people that are put in place—no matter where they in detention centres under the Queensland come from. There is nothing to say that Corrective Services Commission. I want to people cannot go from Corrective Services make a few points about the QCS report which now, if they wanted to—— was brought down during my short time as Mr Foley: It is not done as a matter of Minister. Many of the recommendations practice. contained therein were being implemented and things were improving. In August last Mr BEANLAND: I would not think it is year, I took a package to Cabinet and done as a matter of practice. I hope it is not. I announced the establishment of the new John am sure that it will not be a matter of practice Oxley Youth Detention Centre. I am sure that in the future. no member of this Assembly would want the As I understand it, no checks are carried kids in detention centres to be unsafe. They out on the current supervisors of those centres would have been very safe in the new John when they become part of Corrective Services. Oxley Youth Detention Centre. We were Not only will they have to go through a hurrying the construction of that facility to get program of training and so forth, but there will them out of the Sir Leslie Wilson Youth also be checks on a range of matters, such as Detention Centre at Wilston, which is not a whether they have a criminal history, whether very nice place for kids to be. We had taken they are appropriate people, and so on. As I on board those very good recommendations understand it, that is not happening at the from the QCS, and they were being moment. At the end of the day, a number of implemented. New personnel had been measures will be put in place, including appointed there, and things were going well. employing people who have experience in The Attorney mentioned schooling for working with young offenders. The those children. During my visits to the John Queensland Corrective Services Commission Oxley and Sir Leslie Wilson Youth Detention will be putting in place appropriate training Centres, we were looking at having those courses, appropriate checks and, most children attend school 52 weeks a year. I am importantly, programs so that we can start somewhat surprised to hear the Attorney say making some progress in relation to that those kids were not getting schooling. I rehabilitating young offenders while ensuring deny that. I do not know how he could say that the number of break-outs is reduced. that. I understand he was quoting Judge I mentioned yesterday that a number of McGuire. Those kids were getting schooling. young offenders have broken out of detention As I said, we were looking at having them centres and then committed some very grave attend school for 52 weeks a year. The people offences such as murder. I am sure that does at the detention centres were happy about not please anyone in this Chamber. We must that. We, as a Government, were happy about ensure that there is adequate security in it. detention centres. There is no other way to do I take on board what the Attorney said this, unless we go to the enormous expense about the expertise of Queensland Corrective of setting up some sort of arrangement within Services. However, nobody in this Chamber Family Services. The system would have to be should forget that we are talking about far superior to what it is at the moment, juveniles. Juvenile offenders must be treated because it is extremely lacking. All the differently from adult offenders. As I said evidence, reports and material available during the debate on the second reading of confirm that. I believe that using the expertise the Bill, members of the National Party agreed of those people who are currently in the with that recommendation from the Kennedy system will work out to be a satisfactory report years ago. I do not know what has arrangement. Yesterday I indicated that if, at happened to change their minds. It is a bad the end of the day, we find that this is decision. I urge all members to vote against unsatisfactory and there are some problems, this clause. It is not good to merge young we can come back. We will certainly be back in people who are at fault with hardened 12 months to make amendments to this criminals. I am totally opposed to that. When legislation. I commend this clause to the we get back into Government we will be taking Committee. I believe that it will produce for steps as a matter of urgency to have those everyone, particularly the juvenile offender, a kids put back into detention centres. I ask the far superior outcome than the current system. Government: what is happening about the Mrs WOODGATE: This is one section closure of the Sir Leslie Wilson Youth of the Bill that I spoke about during the debate Detention Centre? What is happening about 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2119 the John Oxley Youth Detention Centre? It is a believe that the process put in place is good, safe place for young offenders. That is appropriate. We have indicated clearly that where they should be—looked after by the written instructions would allow for some Families, Youth and Community Care Ministry, degree of flexibility in relation to positions not Corrective Services. across-the-board. It does not simply relate to Mr BEANLAND: There will not be a one person deciding off the cuff to make merging of juvenile offenders with hardened those decisions. Those decisions will be made criminals. I spoke about that some moments at the written direction of the responsible ago. I certainly quoted Judge McGuire in Minister. This occurs in a number of relation to schooling. I am appalled about it, departments already. Because of the way in and I accept that the honourable member is, which this legislation operates administratively too. Nevertheless, it has happened, and it is across a number of departments it would be stated in material provided by Judge McGuire. very inefficient indeed, and there would be The court transcripts state that the young quite a lot of amendments forthcoming on a offenders who are on remand have not been regular basis, if there were an attempt to cope receiving schooling, and some of them have with and cater for what the member is been there for three or four months. There is suggesting. nothing that I can do about that at the The member for Kurwongbah seemed to moment. It is a fact of life that that has been indicate that some centres might be closed. happening. I am appalled by it. It has been That is not the case at all. In fact, the happening in recent months. This does not go Government is looking at the establishment of back two years. I do not want to suggest in some new juvenile detention centres to cater any way that it does. It is happening this year. for juveniles with offending behaviour. Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I am a little Mr FOLEY: With regard to the disappointed—given that the Committee has Attorney's answer to the questions raised by been adjourned for several hours—that, in the the member for Gladstone, I ask: what extra fairly fulsome and considered answer that the financial provision is being made for the Attorney has given to points raised in respect training courses and the other programs to of this clause, he has not dealt with the which reference has been made by the questions that were asked by me in opening Attorney-General in his speech? It is the debate on this clause. This goes to a very elementary that, if these extra resources are to important and very fundamental point which be provided, then the Assembly is entitled to the Attorney knows I feel very deeply about. I be informed, and, indeed, to be informed now refer to the relationship between the Executive and not simply have it swept away as yet and the people's House of Queensland. another item to be considered in the Budget. That is the first matter to which I ask the Just to remind him, the question that I Attorney to respond so that the Committee asked the Attorney related to the delegation can test whether there is any substance to the powers, which are also contained in this intimation by the Government that further clause, separate from the power to merge training programs and other educational youth detention centres into Corrective programs will be provided. Services. I referred to the answer that the Attorney gave during a public hearing The second issue to which I ask the regarding the reason that these very broad Attorney-General to respond relates to the delegation powers were required—albeit process to be followed in the review of this delegation powers with some fetter—in that matter. The Attorney indicated that within 12 because the powers would need to be used months he would be willing to have this matter over three departments and a commission reviewed. I take it that that is part of the overall and over employees based around the State, review of the Juvenile Justice Act. I invite the they needed flexibility. My question was and Attorney-General to make it clear that this will remains: does the Attorney believe that be an open review, not an internal administrative convenience is sufficient reason departmental review. In particular, I ask the for the non-observance of the basic Attorney to clarify with respect to this review fundamental legislative principles enshrined in whether he will permit relevant community the Legislative Standards Act 1992? If not, bodies such as the Youth Advocacy Centre why will he not introduce an amendment to and the Youth Affairs Network to participate in require that the directions be exercised only by that review—not merely to make submissions way of regulation? to the Government, but to participate in a working party to conduct the review. The Mr BEANLAND: I have gone through reason I press the Attorney-General for that this matter a number of times. I said that I assurance is that it is all very well for the 2120 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996

Attorney to say that these matters will be programs within the Education Department, reviewed in a year's time but, if this is simply to which has nothing to do the Corrective be done behind closed doors within the Services Commission. I understand that department, it gives very little comfort to the sufficient funds will be made available in the many people in the community, including Education Department and other departments those working with youth, who are very to ensure that appropriate rehabilitation concerned about the provisions of this Bill and programs—and I presume that that is what the are very concerned in particular about this member is referring to when he refers to clause, which enables prison authorities. juvenile centres—are put in place. There is no I ask the Attorney to inform the point in continuing the current programs, which Committee, firstly, as to the budgetary are clearly inadequate, inappropriate and, in provision for the extra resources of which he many cases, nonexistent. There is no point in speaks and, secondly, to give an assurance to Corrective Services putting up a list of the Committee that the review will be an open wonderful programs if funding is not made review and that relevant community bodies available. We cannot continue to allow such as the Youth Advocacy Centre and the offenders to escape, to commit offences, to Youth Affairs Network of Queensland will have be picked up again, to be put back inside, to the opportunity to participate in the working break out and to commit more offences. That party for that review. vicious circle just goes round and round. Quite clearly, one has to look at those situations and Mr BEANLAND: In my second-reading address them. I know that they will be speech I indicated that a review would be addressed by this Government. conducted; it is not something that I mentioned to the member for Yeronga just Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I want to revisit yesterday or the day before. We have not very briefly the answer that the Attorney gave decided in what format the review of legislation to my earlier question. I can assume from the will take place. We have already received a answer given by the Attorney that the answer number of submissions about that review, and to my question is "Yes", that the Attorney I would not want to be committed to one type does believe that administrative convenience of review when other people in the community is sufficient reason for the non-observance of might want to be involved in a different type of the fundamental legislative principle that review. Certainly, there will be widespread requires legislation to pay due regard to the community involvement in any review. There is institution of Parliament. If the Attorney's no point in having a 36-hour review of this answer to that question is "No", that he does legislation. If we are to have a review, the not believe it is sufficient reason, then I ask legislation must be reviewed widely. At the again: why will he not turn those directions into moment I am not at liberty to suggest who will regulations as sought by the Scrutiny of be the parties involved in that review. Many Legislation Committee, which would turn this groups throughout Queensland are interested section into one in which the fundamental in this matter; we should not pick out just one legislative principle is observed? or two. Question—That clause 7, as read, stand I indicated before that we will be part of the Bill—put; and the Committee examining numbers in relation to existing divided— detention centres and new detention centres. AYES, 41—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, The point made by the member for Yeronga Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, FitzGerald, Gamin, related to the questions asked by the member Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, for Gladstone. I think that I went through those Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, in detail. I am not at liberty to say exactly what McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, the funding will be, because that will be a Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, budgetary matter. However, certainly, as I Stoneman, Turner, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, Wilson, Woolmer Tellers: Springborg, Carroll understand it, allowance has been made for significant funding for the programs which the NOES, 40—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Corrective Services Commission—— Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, De Lacy, Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Goss W. K., Mr Foley: So it will be increasing funds Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, McElligott, McGrady, to juvenile detention centres? Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, Mr BEANLAND: I understand that Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, Rose, increased funding will be provided to the Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Roberts, Sullivan T. B. Corrective Services Commission for juvenile detention centres and the programs. It is no Pairs: Stephan, D'Arcy; Tanti, Gibbs; Elliott, use providing funding just for the centres, Livingstone. because some of the work is dealt with by Resolved in the affirmative. 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2121

Clause 8— There are two provisos with respect to the Mr RADKE (12.46 p.m.): In relation to power of arrest of juveniles. The first proviso is clause 8—fingerprints and palm prints—the that, under section 54 of the Criminal Code, a courts have held that statutory provisions for person under the age of 10 years is not the taking of fingerprints from persons in criminally responsible for an act or omission custody are an extension of the power that and subsequently cannot be charged before a already exists under common law. The power court for the offence. The second proviso on of police to fingerprint juveniles has been the arrest of juveniles comes from the current based upon the arrest of a juvenile for an Juvenile Justice Act 1992. offence as opposed to proceeding by way of The power of arrest of juveniles and, summons where there is no power to therefore, the power to fingerprint, exists under fingerprint. the Juvenile Justice Act 1992. Section 20 of Fingerprinting is used for the purpose of that Act allows police to arrest a juvenile if they identification of persons charged with believe on reasonable grounds that arrest is offences. However, it is possible that it is also necessary in order to prevent a continuation or used for possible identification of dead repetition of the offence or a continuation of persons who may not be identifiable in any another offence or to prevent the other reliable manner. The right of the Crown concealment, loss or destruction of evidence to cause fingerprinting to take place can be relating to the offence in question. divided into two categories: firstly, upon arrest Additionally, police may arrest if they have for an offence for which fingerprinting is lawful; reasonable grounds to suspect that the and secondly, upon a sentence of a term of juvenile is unlikely to appear before the imprisonment or lawful detention in custody in Childrens Court in response to a summons or a prison. an attendance notice. The lawful fingerprinting of arrested Section 21 of the Juvenile Justice Act persons is covered by more than one piece of states that, subject to the police power of legislation. One of those statutes is the discretion with respect to arrest, proceedings Gaming Act 1850. Section 10 of that Act against a juvenile must be started by way of provides that police may fingerprint for complaint and summons or by an attendance identification purposes any person arrested notice. and charged with an offence under the Act. The term "any person" refers to both adults, Under section 46 of the Corrective Service who are at least 18 years of age at the time of Act, an officer of the Corrective Services the offence, and children who have not Commission may fingerprint any person who attained 18 years of age at the material time. has lawfully been placed into prison custody Whilst police have the legal ability to arrest by a court; the purpose of such fingerprinting adults with a warrant, they do have the being identification and the compiling of discretion to proceed by way of complaint and records. Once again, the term "any person" summons. However, with respect to the arrest includes both adults and juveniles. of children, the existing provisions of the The abovementioned Acts containing Juvenile Justice Act 1992 are to prevail. provisions for the taking of fingerprints from a The 1899 Criminal Code gives authority person arrested for a relevant offence also for police to take fingerprints of any person contain a subsequent provision that the arrested for an offence that is punishable on fingerprints are to be destroyed if a verdict of indictment pursuant to the Criminal Code not guilty is returned. In some instances, the under section 43 of the Vagrants, Gaming and person involved has the right to be present Other Offence Act 1931. "Indictment" means when the destruction takes place. In Hass v. that the charge is to be heard before a judge The Queen, which was heard by the New and jury. Section 43(2) of the Vagrants, South Wales Court of Criminal Appeal in 1972, Gaming and Other Offences Act also allowed the court held that, under common law, a magistrate or judge to order that a convicted examinations of the kind referred to in section person in relation to stock offences be 353A of the Crimes Act 1900, which included fingerprinted. That aspect allowed for a person fingerprinting, were not unlawful if they were to be fingerprinted when he or she had been taken with the consent of the person in proceeded against by way of complaint and custody. The court also held that statutes summons. Section 43 of the Vagrants, allowing the taking of particulars such as Gaming and Other Offences Act 1931 allows fingerprinting for the purpose of identifying the police to take the fingerprints of any person person is designed to reinforce powers who has been arrested on any charge under available at common law in relation to the the Act. apprehension and subsequent related 2122 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 treatment of offenders. In Carr v. The Queen, Obviously what was of concern to the which was heard by the High Court in 1973, it Scrutiny of Legislation Committee was that a was held by the justices that, at common law, situation could possibly arise where, in relation it was lawful to ask a person in custody to to some of the less serious offences, police provide fingerprints and, with his consent, to officers could act in accordance with the take those fingerprints. provisions of the Bill as they stood before this Under the statutes to which I have amendment was moved. Therefore, the referred, the rationale for fingerprinting is for amendment proposed by the Minister is identification of the person in custody to eminently sensible, it is reasonable and it will ensure if possible that the person is not using ensure that the Act will work more efficiently an assumed name. Prior to 1992, the legal than it would have before this amendment power to fingerprint juvenile offenders whilst was moved. they were under arrest was tempered by a There are some very sensible reasons for policy on the part of the police department and good purpose in fingerprinting procedures that children under 14 years of age should not if, in fact, those procedures are used by the be fingerprinted. police with a reasonable amount of caution. Proposed new section 10, which provides As the previous speaker has said, the that police may apply to a Childrens Court proposed amendment will alleviate the magistrate for an order to fingerprint a juvenile problem of juveniles spending time in the who has been charged with an arrest offence watch-house or being put in circumstances under an Act without being arrested and taken that, as parents, none of us would wish to see into custody, is similar to the provision under our children in if they are faced with a minor section 43(2) of the Vagrants, Gaming and charge. Therefore, I take this opportunity to Other Offences Act 1931. This later section thank the Minister for reconsidering this allows a magistrate to order the fingerprinting matter. of a person upon conviction in relation to stock The public hearing held by the Scrutiny of matters under the Criminal Code when that Legislation Committee was very worthwhile. I person has appeared before the court on know it can be an inconvenience for the summons and has not previously been Minister, not that Ministers are compelled to fingerprinted in relation to the matter at hand. attend. As the Minister responsible for the In conclusion, there always has been a carriage of this Act, I applaud him for lawful power on the part of police to take the attending the meeting and outlining various fingerprints of arrested persons on charges things to the committee. In fact, he ironed out where fingerprints may be taken—offences quite a few of the concerns the committee had such as those under the Vagrants, Gaming outlined in its first Alert Digest, and we had and Other Offences Act, the Criminal Code some things wrong. and the Gaming Act. The same applies to The bottom line is that the committee has juveniles above the age of criminal a fairly short period in which to examine Bills. It responsibility. However, it has been the is a bit like running a weekly newspaper—we practice of the police department in the have to try to get the Alert Digest into the past—before 1992—that children under the House by 10 o'clock on Tuesday morning, and age of 14 be not fingerprinted even if they we have a very limited amount of time to do were arrested. The distinction between being that in. It is not an easy task. In other States, arrested and being summonsed is that fingerprinting is for the purpose of identification committees have all the time that it takes for and, if a person is being proceeded against by the Upper House to examine and pass Bills. way of summons, the identification is Mr Hollis: We don't have an Upper presumed to have already been established. House. Therefore, I commend the Attorney-General Mr ELLIOTT: We do not have an Upper for introducing legislation which will reduce the House, that is correct. Being a unicameral time juveniles are to be held in a watch-house system, I guess the nearest thing that we just to obtain fingerprints. have to a House of review is the Scrutiny of Mr ELLIOTT: In speaking briefly to Legislation Committee. Therefore, it is clause 8, on my own behalf and that of the important that the committee does its job Scrutiny of Legislation Committee, I thank the diligently and that it hangs its political hats Minister. Today he has indicated he will move outside the door. I have been a little a very good amendment which I believe is disappointed that some honourable members eminently sensible. I will not rise to speak on who are not on the committee have clause 61, because it is basically about the endeavoured to use Scrutiny of Legislation same thing; I will speak only to this clause. Committee members for agendas and 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2123 purposes for their own. It is most important fingerprinting of children, which is very much in that the committee gets on with its job, and the best interests of the children of this State. that it does so without fear or favour and I wish to address proposed new section without political influence from either side. I 10A(3), which goes to the circumstances thank the Minister for his support of the under which identifying information, which in process, because it is important that the public this proposed new section I presume to be has confidence that the Scrutiny of Legislation fingerprints, will be admissible in a court if not Committee will act without fear or favour, that it taken in accordance with subsection (2). Under will scrutinise legislation and that it will do so what circumstances would the Attorney- properly. General envisage it possible for one of the Mr BEANLAND: I move the following people outlined in proposed new amendment— subparagraphs (2)(a) to (e) not to be available "At page 15, line 10, after 'Acts'— to witness the taking of fingerprints? For example, I subparagraph (d) states— insert— "a justice of the peace other than— 'that is an arrest offence'." (i) a justice of the peace who is a This limits the courts' power to order prints member of the Queensland Police to be taken to an arrest offence. Service; or Mr FOLEY: The Opposition welcomes (ii) a justice of the peace this amendment. As I indicated to the (commissioner for declarations) . . ." Committee yesterday, this is a significant backdown by the Government after sustained Under the new legislation, we are probably attack from the Opposition and from talking about a Justice of the Peace (Qualified) community groups. Nonetheless, I commend or a Justice of the Peace (Magistrates Court). the Attorney-General for his willingness to It seems unlikely to me that there would be make this backdown. too many circumstances in which a person holding either of those honourable offices Throughout the course of the public would not be available to the police in a very debate and the debate in this Chamber, the short time in order to witness the taking of Opposition has been very concerned that the fingerprints. fingerprinting and palm printing provisions proposed by the Government went too far. Mr Nunn interjected. The Opposition was joined in that concern by Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I take the a wide range of community groups. The interjection from my learned colleague from concern was that police would be given Hervey Bay; there is one up every tree these powers to fingerprint and palm print children in days. It seems to me that these people would circumstances where police did not have that be available to assist in such cases. The power even with respect to adults. That would Sports Drug Testing Bill introduced into the be an absurd state of affairs. House this morning by the Minister for Sport Concern was also expressed that, in its contains greater protections for juvenile original form, this clause would enable children athletes with respect to providing samples for to be fingerprinted for a wide range of trivial the drug testing agency than are afforded to circumstances where no responsible criminal juvenile offenders with respect to their justice system should contemplate that that providing fingerprints. That is one of the issues should be the case. Accordingly, the insertion that I would like the Minister to consider. of this amendment winds back that The next issue that I wish to deal with fingerprinting and palm printing power in line briefly is the possible lack of any prohibition on with the attack which has been made by the a victim who may participate in a community Opposition and by community groups. It is a conference from disclosing information that he victory for commonsense over what was an or she has learned in the conference. There absurdly wide provision. are proposed new sections in the Bill which Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.30 p.m. prevent police officers from disclosing information, and there is a proposed new Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: In a sense, section which prevents the convenor from clause 8 of this Bill is that which will do all of disclosing information. However, there does the damage. Some of that damage has been not seem to be any provision that requires the prevented by the Attorney-General's victim participating in the community movement of a subsequent amendment. conference not to disclose information about Once again, I wish to express my gratitude to that conference. The victim, at the victim's him for the amendment in relation to the request, is able to participate in such a 2124 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 conference. I would like some information from case that would have stood up in court. We the Attorney-General in relation to that issue. are going to involve police in hundreds of As has been pointed out, in a small additional court cases each week. community, if a child is participating in a If the Attorney-General thinks that his community conference and the victim policy objective will be achieved, that is, participates also and is not bound by convincing the public that by making these confidentiality, the release of information to cautions disclosable they will no longer the community generally could have a represent a slap on the wrist, and if the detrimental effect on a child. Attorney-General thinks that that will be I am also a little concerned about achieved, I ask: what will be achieved when proposed new section 18H(2), which states police, unable to make a case that will stand that a police officer may require a child to up in court in respect of a child who is not attend a conference. I would have thought admitting guilt, have to let that child go? that a conference would be more likely to have The Attorney-General was fond of quoting a successful outcome if the child involved Judge McGuire, the President of the Childrens attended voluntarily or entered into the Court, in his contributions in this debate. In his process with goodwill. Given that some reports, Judge McGuire also indicated that the sanctions apply if the child does not turn up, in majority of juvenile cases are decided on this instance the rights of the child may not be confessions. In other words, the majority of receiving proper attention. juvenile offenders, even those going to court, Having dealt with a couple of minor are currently pleading guilty. If that is the case, points, I wish to turn now to the substance of and if we are going to have many thousands my speech in the second-reading debate, that more cases annually in which children do not is, the issue of disclosable cautions and admit guilt simply to avoid the heinous disclosable community conference proposition that they might get a criminal agreements. I reiterate that the Government's record without due process, members legislation will mean that a child can acquire a opposite will be in for a bit of a shock. They criminal record without the full protections of should be starting to lobby the Treasurer for the criminal system. I will give honourable an amount akin to $200m a year to put into members an example. A comparable scenario the Childrens Court system. to that of a caution being issued by a police officer to a child who admits to an offence and Finally, the Attorney-General has which is disclosed in a court would be that of defended this proposed new section by quoting Judge McGuire and saying that Judge an adult offender who admits his guilt to an McGuire says that these provisions are offence to a police officer and who is taken essential. However, Judge McGuire has made forthwith by the police officer to a place of many other requests of the Attorney-General imprisonment without the benefit of going that the Attorney has not carried out. The through the court system. We do not want Attorney-General should tell us why he has children acquiring criminal records by virtue of decided that this request of the President of a decision of a police officer. Any number of the Childrens Court is the one that he will run people in this State, be they adult or juvenile, with; he has decided not to run with others. have been verballed. It is my very strong belief that the proposed new sections that provide These provisions will have a contrary effect to for disclosable cautions and disclosable that claimed. For the Attorney-General to community conference agreements will have posture publicly and say that he has done—— precisely the opposite effect intended by Time expired. Government members. Mr SCHWARTEN: As was pointed out There is plenty of evidence to suggest by the shadow Attorney-General, the that people dealing with young offenders and amendment which has been moved by the children through welfare groups will advise Attorney-General is acceptable to the children to protect their rights and not to admit Opposition. I have to say that this was one of to any offence. That means that police officers my major concerns with the original Bill, and I will be required to compile cases against believe that it highlights the weakness of children whom they may arrest or charge in rushing into cobbling together legislation in relation to certain offences in order to try to get order to satisfy the notion of grandstand a conviction in the courts. I believe that a large politics. As I pointed out during the second- number of children who have been cautioned reading debate, it is all too frequently far too by police officers in this State for indictable easy for members of Parliament to be lured offences could never have been found guilty, into the view that quick-fix measures work and because the police could never have made a that it is simply a matter of toughening up the 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2125 criminal provisions or upping the ante in that Mr Foley: It is a slap in the face for regard without any consequent problems. I victims, isn't it? believe that this particular clause did just that: Mr SCHWARTEN: It is a slap in the it satisfied certain people that they were face for victims. I am reminded that the getting tough on crime; it lulled the public into shadow Attorney-General met with the victims a false sense of security that if we got tough of crime in Rockhampton recently. They are on kids, somehow juvenile crime would particularly interested in this provision. They disappear as a result. highlighted a number of cases in which I am delighted that commonsense has conferencing has worked to the victim's benefit prevailed. I would have to say that the in resolving what otherwise could have been Opposition in this case has done its job very, some fairly messy court proceedings. To a very well, in that had the Opposition not person who was there that day, they all strenuously opposed these provisions, then indicated their support for continuing the we would have had a Bill become law in this funding level provided by our Government for State that quite obviously did not have victim/offender conferencing. I hope that the community support and was wrong in law. I Attorney will resile from his intentions to cut might also say that it proves the worth of the that budget. Scrutiny of Legislation Committee which, as the member for Cunningham correctly pointed I have received many letters from people out, has been entrusted with the scrutiny of who are associated with this field. The Central legislation. Its role is akin to that of Upper Queensland University in particular has a Houses—not that I have ever subscribed to number of people who have been trained in Upper Houses. I have always regarded them the field. They are particularly concerned as a place where billiards is played and brandy about this matter. I am sure that the Attorney is drunk, and if one is good at both of them has seen through his clippings a number of one is probably a good member of an Upper letters to the editor regarding this issue. In House. I have never seen any evidence that conclusion, I make the point that it is pointless would indicate otherwise. But I do believe that our passing legislation such as this, the the Scrutiny of Legislation Committee has linchpin of which is victim/offender done a wonderful job in this regard. conferencing, if we are going to remove the access that victims have to that particular I seek the indulgence of the Committee. I service. do not intend to speak any further during the Committee stage, but I want to highlight As I said at the outset, the Opposition will another point relating to a later clause which I be supporting this amendment. believe is of some concern. Mr Chairman, with Commonsense has prevailed. I hope that the your indulgence, I refer to clause 43, which is Attorney will not continue to wander around the victim/offender conferencing provision. I this State talking tough and promising all mentioned in my contribution to the second- manner of measures that will make a better reading debate that that was all well and life for us all, because the fact is that this good. Yesterday in this Chamber the Attorney legislation will not do it. But at least now there held up a document which proved that I will be less of a detrimental effect on the support this concept, and I certainly do. The majority of juveniles in this State. current Attorney cannot claim any credit Mr BEANLAND: I want to respond to a whatsoever for this particular provision, as it couple of points very quickly. As to the was our Government which brought it in. presence of another person when an Nevertheless, I do support it and I have seen identifying particular is taken, and I think that a lot of evidence of how it works. was referred to under 10A(2)—there is a range What the Attorney has not told the of people who may attend with the offender, in Parliament is that, in the central Queensland particular a parent or an adult nominated by region for one, the conferencing budget is to the child. be cut by half. If the success of this legislation Mr J. H. Sullivan: That wasn't the rests in some way or another on the question. effectiveness of victim/offender conferencing, then we may as well not pass it. If funding is to Mr BEANLAND: I understood that was be eroded, in the case of central Queensland the member's question. In addition, certain it will mean that places such as Gladstone, categories of JP may attend. Emerald and Blackwater will not receive the Mr J. H. Sullivan interjected. level of support that they currently enjoy, because the trained counsellors in this field will Mr BEANLAND: That is the way I not be able to travel. understood it to be. 2126 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996

The other matter is conferencing. There whereby it can be made aware of cautions in are various confidentiality provisions within the subsequent cases in order to pass appropriate juvenile justice legislation which I have sentences. If that does not make the use of a mentioned previously, and they relate to caution akin to a finding of guilt, then I do not clauses 62 and 266, which impose know what does. I restate that this is a most confidentiality provisions on all parties reprehensible part of this Bill. That view is participating in conferences, including the shared by people working in the Youth victim. Advocacy Centre. It is shared by Brother Bill A number of other points were raised in Firman from BoysTown, if I understand him relation to the inadmissibility of evidence or correctly. As a result, children will be advised material presented at conferences. Such by their support agencies and the children's material will be inadmissible. If the conference telegraph network not to admit to the falls over for any reason, if it does not reach commission of any offence. That is going to tie agreement—and that is quite likely in some up the Attorney-General's Department, the cases—then the material admitted at that courts, the Police Service and the Juvenile Aid conference is inadmissible at any court Bureau in an enormous amount of effort in proceedings or any cautioning or anything else preparing cases to go before the courts for that might flow after that conference has fallen these matters. It will mean that when crime over. Reference was made also to cautions. statistics are presented to this Parliament in Cautions will not be treated as findings of guilt the future, there will be a huge increase in but will go before the court. I have gone into unsolved crime simply because children will that in some detail. not put up their hands and admit to crimes; they will take their chances that the police can I believe that the member referred to make a case to get them convicted in the section 10A(3) being used where a child does courts. It is a waste of time and money, and it not want a person listed in 10A(2) present does nothing to assist in the solving of crime in when the prints are taken. The point is that this State. I once again implore the Attorney to 10A(3) may be used in that particular case. It consider it now or to give this Committee an states— assurance that he will give it very deep "Subsection (1) does not apply if"— consideration a lot sooner than the 12 months and it lists a whole stack of matters that are that he is suggesting. covered, which seems to me to be Mr BEANLAND: I go back to the point I appropriate. made before. A child may not want someone Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I thank the there. This is covered in section 10A(2). The Attorney for his assurances in relation to court could then act under section 10A(3). The confidentiality requirements on victims who child might want somebody else there—a might attend a community conference. The friend or someone else who is not covered by point that I was making in relation to 10A(3) is that section. The legislation states that the very fact that it exists. Section 10A(2) "Subsection (1) does not apply if . . . the provides for the attendance at the prosecution satisfies the court", and so on. We fingerprinting of a child—and remember that are trying to give the discretion to the child. I we are talking about children—of a justice of understand that what is being said is that we the peace who is not a member of the police want to insist that the child does not have force but who actually holds the warrant of JP these sorts of discretions with court approval. I (Qualified) or JP (Magistrates Court). It seems do not particularly agree with that. I am not to me that that ought to be something which trying to be difficult about it. As much as any police station in this State could arrange possible I am trying to give the discretion to with great expedition. I would be most the child. surprised if such a protection were not Amendment agreed to. available to a child within a very short time at Clause 8, as amended, agreed to. any police station in this State. It seems to me that subsection (3) provides a circumstance in Clauses 9 and 10, as read, agreed to. which police officers may simply place Clause 11— requesting the presence of a JP into the too- Mr FOLEY (2.55 p.m.): The Opposition hard basket and take their chances with the opposes this clause, which changes the law court later. I wonder about the purpose of that. regarding police cautions of children. In short, I must take a contrary view to that of the it makes a police caution part of the criminal Attorney in relation to cautions not being history of a young offender. The superficial findings of guilt. The Childrens Court has attractiveness of such a proposal is that it asked the Attorney to provide information enables the court better to know the details of 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2127 the background of the child. However, recent public hearings on this issue, there is a weighed against that is a very compelling great concern that allowing the use of cautions consideration, namely, that the police caution as previous criminal history will create many loses its usefulness as a means of diverting a problems. Fundamentally, it represents an young person from the criminal justice system. infringement of young people's rights before The Criminal Justice Commission was the law. As the shadow Minister said, the most concerned about this provision. In its caution process takes place outside any due submission to the Attorney-General, it said legal process. A child may often have that the proposals constitute a significant admitted to guilt on a caution just to get out of change to the operation of the juvenile justice a situation. In fact, 80 per cent to 85 per cent system. It went on to say that the proposals of young people who have been cautioned would potentially have the negative never come before the courts at all. criminalising effect on the child that Let us revisit the 1992 Act. Let us diversionary practices such as cautions are consider what is being changed and whether designed to avoid. What we have here is any rationale exists for those changes. The wrong in principle for those reasons. It is 1992 Act allows for a caution to be disclosed contrary to the interests of justice. It is also, to a police officer who is considering however, bad in practice, because the cautioning a child. Concern has been evidence from those who are practising in this expressed. I believe that sometimes the sector is that this will clog up the courts. Why? concern of members opposite is genuine but Because legal practitioners will advise children at other times it is wickedly mischievous; not to accept a caution—to contest the matter. however, some members could be genuinely That is not in the interests of the efficient and concerned. The concern is that young people effective administration of justice. go before the courts after being cautioned time and time again. What does that situation One does not need to take my word for it. indicate? Of course, it indicates that police One needs only to look at the evidence officers are using cautions inappropriately. It presented to the Scrutiny of Legislation could also indicate that police officers are Committee by bodies such as the Logan unable or unwilling to find evidence to take Youth Legal Service, the Youth Advocacy before the court. That is the point. We ought Centre and—as the member for Caboolture to be talking about the legal rights of people in said—Brother Firman from BoysTown. This is society. That is the point that members counterproductive from a practical point of opposite are forgetting. If police officers view. From the point of view of the principles of cannot find evidence that would stand up in a justice, it is wrong headed. It is, after all, a court, of course, they will not charge the matter within the discretion of the police as to juvenile. However, the rhetoric of members whether or not they wish to caution. If they do, opposite suggests that young offenders have then it can be, in an appropriate case, a very been cautioned 30 or 40 times. I believe that useful way of giving a young person an the changes are inappropriate and that opportunity to put his misconduct behind him disclosure is totally inappropriate. and to start with a clean slate. That is the traditional object of it. This clause removes I will read from the submission to the section 18 in the principal Act which deals with Scrutiny of Legislation Committee from the the confidentiality of cautions. Youth Affairs Network of Queensland. Although Mr Beanland says that he consulted I foreshadow amendments numbered five widely with the community in relation to this and six, which have been circulated in my legislation, that is the sort of group that Mr name, to clause 41, which also deal with this Beanland has said that he did not have time problem. Accordingly, I urge all honourable to consult. I know that the shadow Minister members to oppose clause 11. mentioned other groups in the community. Mr FOURAS: As I said in the debate on The submission from the Youth Affairs the second reading of the Bill, this section in Network of Queensland states— relation to cautions caused me the most "The issue of a caution takes place concern when I was reading the Bill. As I also outside any due legal process. A child said previously, there is no doubt in my mind issued with a caution will often have that substantially the 1992 Juvenile Justice Act admitted guilt in regard to an offence is still in place following these amendments. without any prior legal advice or But there are a number of amendments that information. Whether a child is guilty or do not really address the problems that innocent of the offence, there is an juveniles have when they come into contact enticement to admit guilt. The enticement with the courts. As many people said at the is in knowing (and often being told by 2128 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996

police officers) that with an admission of meek offender or the meek child who happens guilt (in regard to certain offences) the to be standing near where a police officer child will be issued with a caution, as thinks an offence has been committed will be opposed to stating their innocence and more likely to receive a caution than the more having to go through the court system. strident, more robust child who would be The issue of cautions is an example unwilling to go along with that process. of the juvenile justice system diverting a Consequently, those people will build up a child's entry into the juvenile justice record of cautions to a much greater extent system. It is one which has been effective than will other children. What is the in diverting large numbers of young consequence of that once the Attorney- people cautioned who then do not re- General has his way and the inadmissibility of enter the juvenile justice system. This is those cautions is taken away? The an extremely cost effective method of consequence will be that the meek child, the diverting young people from the system compliant child, the obliging child will have a and any proposal to water this down record that is as long as your arm put before should not be tolerated." the sentencing tribunal, and the robust child, the naughty child, is not going to have such a As was said earlier by the member for record put before the sentencing tribunal. So Caboolture, and that is the same as the that will disadvantage those who are willing to advice given to me by lawyers who are working go along with the system of criminal justice. with young people, those young people will The consequence of that is appalling. By that now say, "I am sorry. I am not going to cop a system we will be penalising the ones who caution. I am going to go to court. I will argue least ought to be penalised. Worse than that, my case before the court." Court standards we will not be treating like cases alike. Thereby place a different level of responsibility on we will be violating the most basic principle of children 10 years old to 16 years old from that justice. that is placed on an adult. That will fall particularly heavily on I agree with the shadow Minister. This is Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children. the worst aspect of this legislation. As I said The phenomenon of gratuitous concurrence is before, the problem would be better solved by well known and is known to the law. Judicial making sure that the police understand that notice was taken of it not very long ago by the they have the authority to be told whether a Court of Appeal in Queensland. The fact that child has had previous cautions. If police many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders officers must caution again, or even again and are happy to concur with what somebody tells again, it may reflect their unwillingness to go them they did, simply by virtue of the fact that through the court process, or it could indicate that is a cultural trait, will mean that people that that process would be inappropriate from that particular group are going to have a because the officers cannot obtain the bank of cautions built up against them to a necessary evidence. I urge the Parliament to much greater extent than people from other throw out this most wicked clause in this groups in the community. Again we will not be amending legislation. treating like cases alike. Again, we will be Mr WELLS: The problem with this building up a quasi-criminal record on a group clause is that it violates the most fundamental of people, and building it up differentially. principle of justice, that is, that like cases The extension of this point, of course, is should be treated alike. If we consider what is that when it comes before the sentencing involved in a caution, we see that section tribunal and the sentencing tribunal makes a 13(1) of the 1992 legislation states— decision on it, the sentencing tribunal will be "A police officer may administer a making a decision on what is essentially an caution to a child for an offence only if the administrative act. Everybody is familiar with child— the fact that, after a jury has brought down a (a) admits committing the offence verdict or after the magistrate has made a to the police officer; and finding, the magistrate or judge consults the criminal record of the person who has (b) consents to be cautioned." committed the offence. However, that criminal This means that the people who will be record is always a criminal record of offences cautioned will not be all of a kind. They will not that have been found by a court to have been be peas in a pod. They will be those people committed. In this clause, in the case of a who are more inclined than others to admit child who has no criminal record, we are that they have committed an offence and substituting the hearing of the criminal record agree to be cautioned. Subsequently, the for a hearing of cautions that have been 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2129 administered by a police officer. Those are Mr BEANLAND: Very briefly, the cautions administered by a police officer, not member is speaking to a different clause, by a court. That is not a judicial act; it is an act because what he said relates really to clauses of the Executive arm of Government. 18M, 18N and 18O, which have already been Consequently, when we remove the passed by this Chamber. This is a inadmissibility of cautions, we will be importing consequential amendment for what is done into our law a provision whereby an Executive consequently to the passing of those clauses. act can be part of what is effectively the I think that I have previously covered the criminal record of a person before a judicial points that have been raised in some detail officer. In other words, we will be violating the and at great length. principle of the separation of powers. Question—That clause 11, as read, The doctrine of the separation of powers stand part of the Bill, put; and the Committee is extremely important. Over the past six years divided— of the Labor Government, that has been a AYES, 41—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, doctrine to which this Parliament has adhered Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, FitzGerald, Gamin, as rigidly as human frailty allows. Now we are Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, throwing it away by putting a person's liberty in Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, a judicial tribunal at risk by virtue of a mere McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, administrative act by the Executive arm of Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stoneman, Turner, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, Government. Honourable members should Wilson, Woolmer Tellers: Springborg, Carroll remember that the police force is part of the Executive arm of Government. NOES, 40—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, De Lacy, I make another point about how this law Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Goss W. K., falls differentially upon children and adults. Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, McElligott, McGrady, Again, we are not treating like cases alike Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, because here what we are doing is providing a Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, Rose, system in which there is less protection of law Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Sullivan T. B., Roberts for children accused of committing offences than there is for adults accused of committing Pairs: Stephan, D'Arcy; Tanti, Gibbs; Elliott, offences. When an adult goes before a court Livingstone with no criminal record, that adult will have no Resolved in the affirmative. criminal record read out to the judge when the Clause 12, as read, agreed to. verdict of guilty is brought in and the time comes for sentence. When a child goes Mr WELLS: I rise to a point of order. In before a sentencing tribunal without a criminal the Attorney-General's reply to the comments record, something will be read to the court that that were made during the debate on the last will prejudice that child's condition. clause, he said that he thought those comments related to clause 18M, or some I put it to this Chamber that the very first other clause, rather than the clause that was time a child without a criminal record is before him and so he did not feel the need to sentenced to confinement—to loss of respond. In fact, we were debating clause 11 liberty—after such a record of cautions is read of the Bill, which had the effect of repealing out, I expect that there will be a complaint to section 18 of the Act. When the Attorney- the international authorities and I expect that General understands that, he might realise that will be the basis of it. It will be based on a that his response was inappropriate and, very simple principle—the fundamental therefore, he might wish to actually respond to principle of justice—that like cases ought to be the points that were made by speakers to the treated alike. The argument will be that clause. I wonder whether there is any children have less protection of the law than procedure whereby the Attorney-General could adults, that some children have less protection have the opportunity to actually respond to of the law than other children, and that this those matters to which, by virtue of the fact lack of protection of the law is a lack of that he did not understand what was going on, protection which falls particularly harshly on he did not respond. original Australians. For all of those reasons, I The CHAIRMAN: There is no point of urge the Chamber and I urge the Attorney- order. General to reconsider. The Attorney-General is violating the most basic, most fundamental Clause 13— provision of justice with this provision—the Mr FOLEY (3.20 p.m.): I move the principle that like cases must be treated alike. following amendment— 2130 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996

"At page 32, lines 11 to 13— This is another example of an attempt to solve omit." a problem by an extension of police power outside the framework of the systematic review This proposed amendment relates to the of police powers in which the Criminal Justice power of arrest. The clause that is before the Commission and other bodies have invested Chamber has the effect of significantly so much energy. extending the police power of arrest with respect to juveniles. The effect of the A couple of weeks ago the honourable amendment that I have moved is to ensure member for Thuringowa made a powerful that that power is confined appropriately. In speech in which he demonstrated very clearly short, the existing power under section that any suggestion by police that they lack 20(1)(b) of the Act relating to a power to arrest adequate power to arrest juveniles and bring a child for a life offence is being proposed by them before the court is a nonsense. The the Government to be extended to a power to current provisions of sections 20 and 21 of the arrest for a serious offence. That includes a Juvenile Justice Act enable police to use the wide range of offences, including offences for power of arrest where a complaint and which the maximum penalty is 14 years' summons or an attendance notice are unable imprisonment. to result in the child being brought before the court. The Queensland Council for Civil The overall effect of the Government's Liberties has raised concerns about this matter clause is to erode the principles set out in and its concerns are well placed. In the course sections 20 and 21 of the Juvenile Justice Act. of debate yesterday, the Government made Put simply, those principles are that the power much of the views of the Queensland Council of arrest should be used sparingly. It should for Civil Liberties. I hope that Government not be used where there are other means of members' new-found enthusiasm for the civil bringing a child before the court, namely, by libertarian prospective will move their hearts way of complaint and summons or an today. attendance notice. One might think that that is plain In short, I urge honourable members to commonsense and that this Government accept the amendment put forward by the should not tamper with it. However, this clause Opposition. This will ensure that there are is an attempt by the Government to be seen adequate police powers in place, but that those powers are not extended beyond that to be doing something tough; whereas, in fact, which is reasonably necessary to achieve the the proposal from the Government is simply proper objectives of juvenile justice. an extension of police powers which is quite unwarranted and which is out of step with the Mr BEANLAND: I have covered this systematic review of police powers point on a number of occasions. From contemplated by the Criminal Justice memory, we are changing the word "life" to Commission and in respect of which "serious offence". Clause 13 allows section 20 thousands of Queenslanders have made to be extended to serious offences, that is, submissions, both to the Criminal Justice those which, if committed by an adult, would Commission and to the Parliamentary Criminal be punishable by 14 years' imprisonment or Justice Committee. more. I accept that the clause extends the The whole point of the Criminal Justice range of offences slightly, but not widely. We Commission conducting that review, as are still talking about the most serious recommended in the Fitzgerald report, was offences within the statute book. that there should be some rationality in the Of course, the Juvenile Justice Act has a way police powers are articulated. For far too number of provisions relating to young people long police powers in Queensland have been that are different from those in other a hotchpotch. They are beyond the legislation. Section 21 of the Act is headed comprehension of most police officers and "Restriction on arrest of child", and it requires most citizens, who would be required to know that police use an alternative to arrest unless a huge array of statutes to know in what conditions in section 20 are met, and so on. circumstances various powers of arrest can be Of course, as I mentioned previously, this is exercised. The whole idea of police powers one of a number of clauses that has been reform was to enable police officers and strongly recommended by the President of the citizens to know where they stand. Childrens Court; it has not simply been pulled In the past, in various pieces of legislation out of the basket. Far from it. A lot of thought that have been brought before the Parliament has gone into it. We are talking about serious there has been a piecemeal grab for power in offences that involve 14 years' imprisonment respect of various aspects of administration. or more. 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2131

Mr FOURAS: I rise to speak on the commission of another offence; amendment to section 20 of the Act, which or regards as lawful the arrest of a child whom a (b) to prevent concealment, loss or police officer believes on reasonable grounds destruction of evidence relating to be an adult. We have been told that this to the offence." change is made to protect the actions of police officers acting on a reasonable but Subsection (3) goes on to say— mistaken belief that a child is an adult. "Despite section 21 (Restriction on I will become somewhat boring in my arrest of child), a police officer may arrest arguments, because again I argue that the a child if the arresting police officer 1992 Juvenile Justice Act does not in any way believes on reasonable grounds that the restrict police officers from doing their job. This child is unlikely to appear before the issue obviously relates to the new section 10A Childrens Court in response to a or the old section 36, in relation to having complaint and summons or an another person present during a police attendance notice." interview. However, new section 10A—the old The Attorney-General should go over to section 36—states that if the police are able to the National Party and forget that he was ever show that "there was proper and sufficient a Liberal; he should go and join the rednecks reason for the absence of a person mentioned of society, because he is behaving like the in subsection (2)" at the time the statement worst of them. The Attorney-General argued was made or given and the court considers before that the Juvenile Justice Act of 1992 that, in the particular circumstances, the restricts the ability of police to do their job. The statement should be admitted into evidence, Attorney-General is not listening; it is useless then a statement made in the absence of an for me to take further part in the debate on the adult can be accepted by the court. clauses in this Bill. The Attorney-General's Therefore, the clause does not have the previous statement that these sections restrict limitations that we have been arguing about. If police from doing their job is wrong. It is it appears to a court that a person is a minor, disgraceful for an Attorney-General to the case should be transferred to the misrepresent an Act for political purposes. It appropriate jurisdiction—and that is what will result in horrendous social consequences would happen. More than that, the police for young people. should actually be telling young people that if Mr BEANLAND: I am not going to reply they are aged between 10 and 16 years of to the abuse that I just copped; I will just let it age and they want the protection of section 36 pass by, because I am used to hearing it. I will of the Act, they should state their age. They just move on. The legislation has been altered would then be entitled to have present any of to protect a police officer who, acting on the people listed in the legislation. reasonable grounds, believes that a person is Again in this place amendments are an adult. That position was not resolved by being argued for that will remove the rights existing section 36. I know what the member and fundamental safeguards of young people. for Ashgrove is talking about, but the position This legislation is being changed to remove has not been resolved. The Government is those rights based on the false rationale that responding to the fact that prosecutions have the existing legislation is not working. I have been thrown out owing to the current situation. said ad nauseam in this place that, properly interpreted and administered, there is nothing Question—That the words proposed to wrong with the existing Act. be omitted stand part of the clause—put; and the Committee divided— While I am on my feet I will also address AYES, 41—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, clause 13 in relation to the Attorney-General's Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, comment that it was unfortunate that sections Gamin, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, 20 and 21 significantly restrict police powers. Hegarty, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Section 22(2) states— Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, "Despite sections 10 (Police officer to Quinn, Radke, Rowell, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, consider alternatives to proceeding Stoneman, Turner, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, against child) and 21 (Restriction on arrest Wilson, Woolmer Tellers: Springborg, Carroll of child), a police officer may arrest a child NOES, 40—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, if the police officer believes on reasonable Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, De Lacy, grounds that arrest is necessary— Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, McElligott, McGrady, (a) to prevent a continuation or a Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, repetition of the offence or the Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, Rose, 2132 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996

Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, cautions and community conference Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Roberts, Sullivan T. B. agreements admissible as part of a person's Pairs: Stephan, D'Arcy; Tanti, Gibbs; Santoro, criminal history", and I refer him to proposed Livingstone new subsections 114A(1) and (2), which clearly Resolved in the affirmative. state that these admissible cautions and admissible community conference agreements Clause 13, as read, agreed to. become part of a person's criminal history. Clauses 14 to 40, as read, agreed to. I make the point again: these are Clause 41— becoming part of the person's criminal history Mr FOLEY (3.40 p.m.): I move the without the due processes of the law applying following amendments— to their application. This is not a position in which the children of this State ought to be put "At page 45, line 27, 'cautions and'— by any Government of this State. I think it is omit. contrary to any number of international "At page 45, lines 29 and 30 and agreements. I urge the Attorney once again to page 46, lines 1 and 2— capitulate on this issue and to remove from this Bill any suggestion that cautions or omit." community conference agreements that are These amendments relate also to the made without the due process of the law will admissibility of cautions and are consequential ever be considered as part of a child's criminal to the Opposition's opposition to clause 11. history. Honourable members interjected. Amendments negatived. The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is too Clause 41, as read, agreed to. much audible conversation in the Chamber. Clauses 42 to 44, as read, agreed to. Mr FOLEY: I indicate that, as the Clause 45— Opposition has already divided on the question of the admissibility of cautions, we Mr FOLEY (3.44 p.m.): I move the shall not divide again on these clauses. following amendments— However, we are opposed to them. I thank the "At page 50, line 24— honourable member for Murrumba for correcting the legal misapprehension of the omit, insert— Attorney-General about the significance of the 'a period not more than 14 years'. previous debate that we had with respect to At page 50, after line 24— clause 11. I strongly urge the Honourable the Attorney-General to check his legal advice in insert— future. It may be that the Honourable the '(5) Section 121(3)— Attorney-General is unaware as to whether the insert— Criminal Code has been repealed or not, but he should not make light of the Opposition's '(c) a period up to and including the amendments lest he find himself in even maximum of life, if the offence is further embarrassment, such as that which murder.'." was revealed by the honourable member for It is said sometimes that hard cases make Murrumba. We adhere to the view that the bad law. The clause before the Parliament, admissibility of cautions is a wrong move, and clause 45, amends section 121 of the principal the Opposition is opposed to it. Act, which deals with sentence orders in the Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I wish to briefly case of serious offences. Under the scheme of enter into the debate on this clause, because I the current Act, the maximum penalty that can think it is worth while pointing out to the be imposed in respect of a period of years of Attorney-General that he has, during the detention is set out in section 121(3)(b) and is Committee stage, made statements that are 14 years. The amending Bill brought before incorrect. The Attorney-General would be the Parliament by the Attorney-General seeks aware, as is everybody else, that I have been to increase the maximum sentences available. pursuing the issue of the admissibility of However, it does so across a wide range of certain cautions into evidence in subsequent offences and allows for the penalty of life court cases. The Attorney-General has said, I imprisonment to be imposed in circumstances think on at least two occasions, that these do where an adult could be sentenced to life not become part of the criminal record. I refer imprisonment. the Attorney-General to the heading that is Several points need to be made. Firstly, being inserted under this clause, "Particular there should be common ground amongst 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2133

Government and Opposition members that it the social development of that person and his is appropriate that the sentencing framework or her ability to socialise, create networks of for juveniles should be different from that friends, and whatever. Unfortunately, the which applies in the case of adults. That is a rationale here is about being seen to be necessary consequence of having a different tough, rather than considering the set of principles governing juvenile justice as consequences of this legislation. I support the opposed to adult justice. We have seen in shadow Attorney-General's amendment and recent times horrific cases, including the ask the Attorney-General and the Parliament dreadful murder at Maryborough, in which the to give it full consideration. sentencing judge indicated that had a greater Mr BEANLAND: I have explained our period of imprisonment been available then he concern about this section in relation to would have been disposed to order that murder and other heinous and violent crimes. greater period. The amendment moved by the Unfortunately, more and more of these crimes Opposition is responsive to that concern where are being committed by young juvenile the offence is murder, and the second offenders. That is indeed sad. I can imagine amendment provides for that, but it limits it in the attack that would be made upon us if we a way which is not done in the case of the did not allow this section to apply to cases Government's clause, because the such as rape and other heinous and violent Government's clause makes bad law out of a crimes. There are two criteria involved in this. hard case. The Government's amendment First of all, the crime must be violent and, would allow for life imprisonment for juveniles secondly, it must be a heinous crime. That is in a wide range of offences which attract the at the discretion of the courts. There is nothing maximum penalty of life, including robbery and mandatory about it. Because violent crimes burglary. are being committed by young people within Nowhere in this Bill is it plainer that there the community, it is only appropriate that this is no framework for an attack upon the causes should apply to them. of crime than in this clause. What we see here I accept what the member for Yeronga is an attempt by the Government to be seen said about situations involving murder. I to be tough by increasing the maximum considered that, too. However, I was also sentences. All of the evidence indicates that confronted with the dilemma of what happens the mere increase in maximum sentences in in the case of other very brutal crimes when a this area will not produce the greater deterrent court rules that the crime was both heinous effect which is sought, and the breadth of the and violent and that a penalty of life extension of the sentencing power is one imprisonment should be imposed. To be fair, I which is resisted by the Opposition. admit that there may not be many situations The Opposition has taken on board the such as that. I hope there are not many observations of the honourable Justice juveniles—if any—who are convicted under Williams, former Chair of the Law Reform this provision. This is not being done to make Commission. Justice Williams is a highly us look strong to members of the respected Supreme Court judge and a very community—as though we are going to create experienced law reformer. The amendments something new. It is being done in view of the moved to this clause by the Opposition reflect problems with which the community is faced, and are consistent with the observations made to meet with changing circumstances, and to publicly in the court by His Honour. I urge all keep up with other changes within our society. honourable members to support the Mr FOLEY: This clause, as advanced by amendments moved by the Opposition in the Government, takes the law backwards. respect of this clause. Prior to the introduction of the Juvenile Justice Mr FOURAS: I believe that, in many Act 1992, the Court of Criminal Appeal ways, this approach towards life sentences for expressed its view that it is in general juveniles, in terms of its consequences for the undesirable to have indeterminate sentences community and the young people themselves, for juveniles. That view was expressed at a could well prove to be short-sighted and, in time when the law provided that juveniles who some instances, quite disastrous. I cite the committed offences for which the maximum example of a 15-year-old who could be given penalty for an adult would be life imprisonment a 14-year sentence. That is a very long period. could be detained at Her Majesty's pleasure. It is a lifetime. There could be severe effects One of the greatest problems over the last 25 from institutionalising a young person of that years in the juvenile justice system related to age for anything like 14 years. For instance, it those offenders who were detained at Her would be very difficult to fit that young person Majesty's pleasure. It was difficult for the back into the community. It would also affect authorities to determine what was then the 2134 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 appropriate length of time that those people Clause 45, as read, agreed to. should spend in detention. Clauses 46 to 60, as read, agreed to. In my earlier remarks, I spoke of the Clause 61— Government's clauses catching persons for offences well beyond murder, including Mr BEANLAND (4.02 p.m.): I move the robbery. I referred to burglary in circumstances following amendment— where there is also the commission of "At page 57, line 18, after 'Acts'— violence, such as might occur during the insert— burglary of a house in the night-time, as that is a necessary element within the provisions of 'that is an arrest offence'." section 121 subsection (3)(b). It is all too easy Amendment agreed to. for the Government to argue that greater Clause 61, as amended, agreed to. maximum penalties of this kind should be imposed. It is much harder for the Clause 62, as read, agreed to. Government to attack the causes of crime Clause 63— and, thereby, to combat crime in our suburbs Mr FOLEY (4.03 p.m.): I move the and throughout the regions of Queensland. following amendment— The proposals from the Government "At page 59, line 23, 'balance of extend life imprisonment across a wide range probabilities'— of circumstances. They extend it well beyond the offence of murder and well beyond the omit, insert— circumstance to which Mr Justice Williams 'basis of proof beyond a reasonable referred in that case which attracted such doubt'." infamy. Accordingly, I ask honourable This clause relates to the orders that a members to accept the Opposition's court may make against the parents of an amendment. I do so in the interests of justice offender to pay compensation. The and in the interests of ensuring that we have a Government has done a foolish thing. It has juvenile justice system which stands up to sought to change the standard of proof criticism. required in a criminal matter from proof The Criminal Justice Commission, in its beyond a reasonable doubt to the balance of submissions to the Attorney-General, has probabilities. In doing so, it has offended been particularly critical of the proposal for life against basic principles involved in the criminal sentences. The CJC recorded its view as being law, namely, that the criminal law standard of opposed to the proposal that a life sentence proof is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. be a sentencing option for juvenile offenders. I The provisions for making orders for ask honourable members to consider this compensation in respect of parents appeared matter carefully before extending the criminal in the 1992 legislation. It is a little used law so broadly. provision, but it is one that exists nonetheless. Question—That the words proposed to That provision gives power to the court to be omitted stand part of the clause—put; and make such an order when it is satisfied the Committee divided— beyond a reasonable doubt. Clause 63 AYES, 41—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, amends section 198 of the principal Act. Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Section 198 of that Act relates to a show Gamin, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, cause hearing. It is part of Division 11—Orders Hegarty, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, against parent. The Government proposes to Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, insert a provision that the court is to make its Quinn, Radke, Rowell, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, decision on the balance of probabilities. The Stoneman, Turner, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, amendment moved by the Opposition Wilson, Woolmer Tellers: Springborg, Carroll changes that to the basis of proof beyond a NOES, 40—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, reasonable doubt. It does so because that is Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, De Lacy, the proper standard that should apply in a Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Goss W. K., criminal proceeding. Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, McElligott, McGrady, Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, By way of completeness, I note that the Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, Rose, earlier provisions in clause 62 characterise this Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, as a civil proceeding in a new subsection (5A) Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Roberts, Sullivan T. B. to section 197, but the essence of this is, of Pairs: Stephan, D'Arcy; Gibbs, Tanti; course, that we are dealing with criminal Livingstone, Santoro. proceedings. The earlier amendment is Resolved in the affirmative. intended to be consistent with what the 7 Aug 1996 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 2135

Government urges in respect of clause 63, respect of the compensation order. namely, that the decision be made on the Accordingly, I urge all honourable members to balance of probabilities. support the amendment moved by the This clause goes to the question of how Opposition. parents are to be encouraged to accept Mr BEANLAND: I have just a few points responsibilities on behalf of their children. The in reply. I accept that there could be some Opposition says that one does a lot more concern about the alterations to the provisions good by providing support and assistance to for parental liability. I notice that it has been parents than by using the big stick of a recognised in the Alert Digest that, in fact, that compensation order. The Opposition argues is a matter for Parliament. Obviously, there are that the Government would be much better divergent views on the issue. I say that, placed by putting its energies into support for contrary to what was stated by the CJC, the parents and to giving to those parents who are proposals are not ill-advised or dangerous; encountering difficulties with their youngsters they are well thought out and well intentioned. access to counselling support services and They rely on the judgment of the court in each social services that can assist them. individual case, and I emphasise that. If, however, the Government believes that This is not a new concept by any means. there should be an order made by the court In fact, it goes back to about 1908 when the against parents by way of compensation, then United Kingdom's Children's Act stated that a the basic principles of fairness require that it court must impose liability for damages on the should be done on the basis of proof beyond parents of children under 14 years and that it reasonable doubt. These provisions put must impose that liability on those parents forward by the Government have been much unless it could be shown that the parents criticised. The provisions have been criticised encouraged the offence by neglect. both on the grounds of the legal principle The proposed changes to the legislation involved and also on the grounds that they are will give compensation to victims; otherwise no not an effective way of dealing with the orders will be made and the victims will responsibility of parents. In its submission to continue to miss out. To date under the the Attorney-General, the Criminal Justice current regime, no orders have been made Commission stated— and, through this amendment to the "The CJC has grave concerns about legislation, this is the only opportunity by which the proposal to change the standard of victims will be able to receive compensation. I proof required before an order for think that it is time that victims were given compensation can be made against the some consideration. parents of juvenile offenders. This Not only that, in his annual report for proposal conflicts with the accepted 1994-95, the President of the Childrens Court principle that the standard of proof in went to great length to talk about crime criminal proceedings is beyond a prevention beginning at home. The report reasonable doubt." stated— We have heard much huffing and puffing "Parents have the most powerful from the Government about its desire to make influence on their children's development. parents responsible and its desire to use the While most parents carry out their big stick of court orders to do so. There is no parental responsibilities adequately, there doubt that if this clause were to pass into law is nevertheless a significant number of in the way in which the Government has parents who fall short of the duty cast on advocated, then it would be much easier for a them to ensure that their children court to make those orders against parents. understand the difference between right However, in the view of the Opposition, that and wrong and grow into adulthood as would be an erroneous approach—one that responsible law-abiding citizens. When does not respect the proper basis of the effective family control is lacking, children criminal law and one that does not show are more prone to errant behaviour. proper respect for the rights of parents. When children offend, the law has a part Indeed, it is a curious thing that at the to play in reminding parents of their very time at which the Government is saying to responsibilities." parents that they should assert their authority The legislation also contains a number of with respect to their children, the Government clauses to cover the parents' liability, such as is taking away from parents certain rights, clauses relating to determining the amount to namely, the right to have it proved beyond be paid by parents by way of compensation in reasonable doubt that they are liable in that the court must have regard to the parents' 2136 Juvenile Justice Legislation Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 capacity to pay the amount, which must amendments brought forward by the Attorney- include an assessment of the effect that any General under clause 72, for children who are order would have on the parents' capacity to given a period of detention and then provide for dependants. So we are not doing transferred to an adult prison to be treated away totally with any protections so that it will less favourably than an adult given the same be open slather for the courts. period of detention. This matter was brought The current legislation contains no to the committee's attention by a compensation figure; nevertheless, it has not representative of the Legal Aid service. I had any compensation orders made under it. mention that to the Attorney-General because We are endeavouring to ensure that orders the point was raised after he had left the can be made in circumstances in which the hearing. court views it appropriate. At the end of the Simply put, if a 16-year-old child and a 17- day, the victims—which I have not heard year-old—for the purposes of the criminal members, except those on this side, talk justice system—adult offend in company, the about very much—at least get some child will be dealt with through the Childrens compensation out of this exercise. Currently, Court and the 17-year-old will be dealt with, I under the juvenile justice legislation the victims presume, through the District Court or get nothing at all. The courts have not seen fit Supreme Court. The ability of the Childrens to ensure that penalties are made so that Court to reduce the sentence given goes to victims receive some benefit. only half the sentence. If each offender was This clause has not been drafted hastily. sentenced to seven years, the child would be In fact, although we have tried to go down a allowed to leave detention only after serving fairly difficult path, we have come up with a three and a half years, in the interim having reasonable, appropriate approach so that transferred to an adult facility. However, the parents have their rights and duties intact and court could order that the 17-year-old serve a the courts have the discretion, after period of imprisonment—as it would be for that considering all of the circumstances, and the person—of something less than three and a victims have some chance of receiving some half years. I believe that there is a possibility type of compensation. that a child could be disadvantaged by this provision. I understand that the provision Question—That the words proposed to exists in the current legislation and is just be omitted stand part of the clause, put; and being carried on, but I wanted to bring it to the the Committee divided— attention of the Attorney-General for a later AYES, 40—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, time. Cooper, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, Mr BEANLAND: I was aware of that Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, provision before it was mentioned at the McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, meeting. Nevertheless, it is one of the Rowell, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stoneman, Turner, provisions which we will certainly be reviewing Veivers, Warwick, Watson, Wilson, Woolmer Tellers: in 12 months' time. I give that undertaking. Springborg, Carroll Clause 72, as read, agreed to. NOES, 41—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, Cunningham, Clauses 73 to 88, as read, agreed to. De Lacy, Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Goss Clause 89— W. K., Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, McElligott, McGrady, Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, Mr FOLEY (4.26 p.m.): Clauses 89 to Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, Rose, 103 deal with an amendment of the Corrective Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, Services (Administration) Act. This is the Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Roberts, Sullivan T. B. legislative machinery that enables the highly Pairs: Stephan, D'Arcy; Tanti, Gibbs; Santoro, undesirable outcome that the Queensland Livingstone. Corrective Services Commission would be able Resolved in the negative. to run juvenile detention centres. The Clause 63, as amended, agreed to. Opposition has already expressed its strong opposition to this by dividing on clause 7, so Clauses 64 to 71, as read, agreed to. we will not divide on the clauses relevant to Clause 72— this part of the Bill. However, for the sake of Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (4.23 p.m.): In the the record I note that the Opposition is firmly public hearings conducted by the Scrutiny of opposed to clauses 89 to 103 in so far as they Legislation Committee, it came to my attention allow prison authorities to run juvenile that there was provision in the existing Act, detention centres. which was being continued by the Clause 89, as read, agreed to. 7 Aug 1996 Financial Intermediaries Bill 2137

Clauses 90 to 98, as read, agreed to. It is very pleasing to see the Parliament Clause 99— rebuff the Government's proposal with respect to making orders against parents on the Mr BEANLAND(4.26 p.m.): I move— balance of probabilities. To that extent the Bill "At page 76, lines 8 and 10, after has been improved and I welcome the support 'commission officer'— of the honourable member for Gladstone in insert— the division in relation to that proposal. However, it does remain a grossly defective Bill ', or anyone else under an as a whole, notwithstanding the major arrangement with the commission,'. advances that the Opposition has been able At page 76, after line 11— to make with respect to the fingerprinting and insert— palm printing provisions, and also with respect to orders made against parents. Those two ' '(4) Amounts in a prisoners or Opposition victories are welcome and have detainees trust fund to the credit of a come about only after sustained attack from prisoner or detainee— the Opposition and community groups. (a) may be spent by the prisoner or However, those Opposition victories—as detainee, with the commission's welcome as they are—do not detract from the consent; and essential weakness in the Bill as a whole. (b) must be paid to the public Amendments agreed to. trustee, if the public trustee is Clause 99, as amended, agreed to. managing the prisoner's or Clauses 100 to 108, as read, agreed to. detainee's estate and the public trustee requests the payment; Schedules 1 to 3, as read, agreed to. and Bill reported, with amendments. (c) must be paid to the prisoner or detainee on being discharged or Third Reading being released on parole or under an immediate or fixed Hon. D. E. BEANLAND (Indooroopilly— release order under the Juvenile Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) Justice Act 1992.'.'." (4.34 p.m.), by leave: I move— The purpose of these amendments is to "That the Bill be now read a third ensure that money received under the time" arrangement with the commission can be put Question put; and the House divided— in a prisoner's or detainee's trust fund if it is AYES, 41—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, needed for work release or similar schemes. It Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, allows the commission a discretion to spend Gamin, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, moneys in a trust fund. It also ensures Hegarty, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Laming, Lester, payment to the Public Trustee or to the Lingard, Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, prisoner or detainee on release. The Perrett, Quinn, Radke, Rowell, Sheldon, Simpson, amendment ensures that moneys are handled Slack, Stoneman, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, Wilson, appropriately. Woolmer Tellers: Springborg, Carroll NOES, 40—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Mr FOLEY: The Opposition will not Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, De Lacy, oppose these provisions, which are machinery Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Goss W. K., in nature. However, the Attorney-General Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, McElligott, McGrady, appears to have had a memory lapse in Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, respect of victims of crime in relation to his Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, Rose, earlier claim that the Opposition had not Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, referred to them. On the contrary, earlier in the Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Roberts, Sullivan T. B. Committee stages the Opposition pressed the Pairs: Stephan, D'Arcy; Gibbs, Tanti; Attorney-General repeatedly as to what he Livingstone, Santoro. proposed to do for victims of crime. Ultimately, Resolved in the affirmative. the Attorney-General simply refused to answer whether or not he would honour the promise he made prior to the last election to provide an FINANCIAL INTERMEDIARIES BILL extra $1m to the victims of crime. Accordingly, Second Reading I ask the honourable member to take on board the Opposition's concerns about victims Debate resumed from 10 July (see of crime. p. 1466). 2138 Financial Intermediaries Bill 7 Aug 1996

Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich) Dr WATSON (Moggill) (4.42 p.m.): Mr (4.38 p.m.): The existing legislation which Speaker—— governs the activities of cooperative housing Mr Hamill: A pregnant pause. societies is certainly considered very prescriptive by present-day standards. Dr WATSON: I was expecting the Although that legislation has served its honourable member to speak for a little purpose, having been enacted back in 1958, it longer. has certainly now passed its use-by date. Mr Hamill: I promised that I would be On 20 October last year, the then brief. Treasurer in the Goss Labor Government, the Dr WATSON: Yes. I assure the member Honourable Keith De Lacy, introduced his for Ipswich that I am exceptionally grateful for Financial Intermediaries Bill, which was his being so quick. designed to strip away anachronistic provisions As the Deputy Premier and Treasurer which had governed the operations of those outlined in the second-reading speech, the housing societies and to take them out of the primary objective of the Bill is the introduction straitjacket of measures which were the of a system of prudential supervision for hallmark of that older legislative regime. The cooperative housing societies, including Bill which the Honourable Keith De Lacy terminating building societies and a general introduced is in a great many particulars cooperative society, the Cairns Cooperative identical to the one that is now before the Weekly Penny Savings Bank Limited, which House for its consideration. The Bill covers not operates as a financial intermediary. only the activities of cooperative housing societies but also terminating building Cooperative housing societies were societies. established by legislation in 1958. The societies borrow from the banks for the The key feature of the proposal last year purpose of lending funds to members for the and this proposal from the Treasurer is that a purchase of residential property. The business new system for the prudential supervision of of the cooperative housing societies has those societies will be constituted and they will grown significantly in recent times. Until the fall within the purview of the operations of the late 1980s the normal allocation of funds from Queensland Office of Financial Supervision. the banks to the cooperative housing societies Obviously, this is an initiative which is directly in was around $2m. Since then requests to the line with the policy of the former Labor banks have been regularly as high as $5m. Government and, of course, the Opposition Therefore, there is a need to ensure that strongly supports it. these financial institutions are administered in With the change of Government early this a manner similar to other financial institutions. year, the De Lacy Bill lapsed, but the As members would be aware, 1 July 1992 Treasurer has picked up in this Bill the vast marked the commencement of a system of majority of the provisions that appeared in its nationally uniform prudential supervision of predecessor. However, there is a number of building societies and credit unions. The minor departures. I say "minor" departures Financial Institutions Scheme is based on an because, although there has been a agreement between all States and Territories, significant renumbering of clauses in the Bill, providing a uniform, flexible and responsible the substantive part of the Bill, in terms of the approach to the regulation of these industries. verbiage, anyway, is exactly the same. We The Financial Institutions Scheme is now well see this Bill as virtually indistinguishable from into its fourth year, and there is no doubt that that Bill which embodied our proposals when it has been an outstanding success. The we were in Government, and we are pleased cooperative housing societies have been to support its passage. seeking similar changes to the regulations The Government has sought to finetune within their industry. certain provisions. A couple of new clauses The Queensland Office of Financial have been added and a couple of old ones Supervision has been administering the removed, but they do not in any way detract existing legislation affecting cooperative from the quality of the legislation which had housing societies and terminating building been proposed previously. I always believe in societies since 1 July 1995. This arrangement giving credit where it is due. These minor has been in place while new legislation to changes enhance the Bill, and the Opposition regulate these societies was developed. The supports them as well. Consequently, we Financial Intermediaries Bill replaces very welcome the passage of this legislation prescriptive legislation governing the activities through the House this afternoon. of cooperative housing societies, which 7 Aug 1996 Financial Intermediaries Bill 2139 commenced in 1958. The old legislation to the same financial requirements as other cannot, and does not, reflect the new financial institutions. prudentially based supervisory systems which In addition, this legislation will incorporate have been, or are in the process of being, the general society, the Cairns Cooperative introduced in relation to building societies, Weekly Penny Savings Bank Limited, under credit unions and friendly societies. the supervision of QOFS. This society has The existing legislation was developed for been administered by the Department of the environment in the 1950s. As members Consumer Affairs but there is a need to would be aware, the financial environment of ensure that the society is subject to the same the 1990s is considerably different, and the prudential financial supervision. The board of old legislation has become less relevant. the Queensland Office of Financial Today's financial markets require regulations Supervision is empowered to institute and suited to the dynamic nature of the industry. develop the various prudential and other The cooperative housing society industry has standards which are to be implemented in the sought more and broader powers than it supervision of all societies. QOFS has the presently has. This legislation broadens the appropriate technical expertise to continue to scope of the societies' operations by allowing supervise the cooperative housing societies, voluntary amalgamations. It is expected that and this legislation empowers it to do so. within 12 months the 670 cooperative housing There has been extensive consultation societies operating in Queensland today will with industry participants in relation to the amalgamate so that there will be fewer than content of the prudential and other standards 100 societies. This industry rationalisation will which will be implemented in the supervision of reduce cost and create benefits for the societies by QOFS. The Financial industry. Furthermore, the simplification of the Intermediaries Bill has the support of industry lending operations and the extension of their participants. This legislation, which draws on lending powers means that this source of the Financial Institutions Code, will ensure that borrowing for the purpose of buying and/or the cooperative housing societies, the building residential premises will be easier for terminating building societies and the Cairns consumers to understand and more relevant Cooperative Weekly Penny Savings Bank to their borrowing requirements. Limited will be subject to a modern system of To own one's home has long been the financial management that will enable these Australian dream. In Queensland, of the total institutions to participate in the dynamic number of households surveyed by the financial environment of the 1990s. I support Australian Housing Survey in 1994, 39 per the Bill. cent were owners, 28 per cent were Mr CAMPBELL (Bundaberg) purchasers, 32 per cent were renters and 1 (4.47 p.m.): I have listened with interest to the per cent lived rent free. With some 67 per cent two previous speeches. I know that all of the State owning or purchasing their own members support the operations of QOFS. It home, the dream of owning one's home is still has worked well for all types of non-bank very relevant in Queensland today. Therefore, financial organisations. It was established it is important that the Government through because organisations such as cooperative this legislation ensures that cooperative building societies, building societies housing societies as a source of finance for themselves and other non-bank financial residential premises is prudentially supervised. institutions must be subject to greater Although the new powers in the Financial compliance and accountability requirements. Intermediaries Bill do not encompass the That is a positive step, because we have to entire spectrum of increases sought by the protect the public. However, this all comes at a industry, there is scope provided in the cost. In some cases, we have forgotten certain legislation for the industry to adopt new groups whose needs should be considered— products through the promulgation of groups which now cannot operate under any appropriate prudential and other standards so Act in Queensland and possibly Australia. that, over a period, societies may be able to One such group which was brought to my broaden their product range and better service attention by the member for Redcliffe is the their clients. Since 1 July 1985 there has been Redcliffe City Council Employees Distress no provision for the establishment of additional Fund. It was a small fund which now has had terminating building societies. As a result, the to be wound up. Those people wanted to look existing building societies are winding down after each other in a small cooperative saving their operations as loans are paid out. It is group, but such groups must now be important that these societies are also subject supervised by QOFS. The cost of 2140 Financial Intermediaries Bill 7 Aug 1996 implementing the various requirements is so thing in the community cannot fit in anywhere. high that we have in effect said to the little It is a great pity that we have forgotten those people, "You're out. You're gone." The system types of people. does not cater for these types of Hon. J. M. SHELDON (Caloundra— organisations. They cannot even operate Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for under the Corporations Act. So we have just The Arts) (4.53 p.m.), in reply: I thank had to say, "We do not want these types of members on both sides of the House for their groups to exist any longer." contributions and support of the Bill. As stated The friendly societies also operated small by the shadow Treasurer, this was legislation groups. I believe that some Gin Gin of the former Government. We have modified pensioners had a funeral fund, as did some it in order to make some minor additions that Bundaberg pensioners. In both of those cases make it a better Bill. It is a good Bill. I believe the cost of administration through QOFS was its purpose is important. I thank members for so great that those groups had to go out of their support. existence. When we propose legislation which Motion agreed to. imposes higher standards of compliance and accountability, we have to make certain that we do not forget the smaller groups which Committee want to be able to do their own thing. Hon. J. M. Sheldon (Caloundra—Deputy I believe that many current Government Premier, Treasurer and Minister for The Arts) in policies, particularly those relating to social charge of the Bill. security and social justice, came into existence Clauses 1 to 7, as read, agreed to. when members of various funds—providence Clause 8— funds and things like that—were prepared to band together and help each other in some Mr CAMPBELL (4.54 p.m.): I asked a kind of welfare way. In many cases the question, but I do not know whether the Government has taken over that function. Minister is able to provide a reply. It was What concerns me is that, unfortunately, there difficult to choose a clause within which to is nowhere for those small groups to go. It raise this matter. However, I believe that I can really has become too costly for many of those ask this question in relation to the clause small savings-type groups, and even small dealing with the functions of the QOFS board. housing cooperatives. I believe that we are How or where does the Treasurer believe we taking them out of existence simply because can start looking after those small groups that of the great costs involved. In other words, a really do not fit into QOFS? How could we group must be a certain size before it can have different types of reporting standards afford to meet all the requirements that are which would allow those small groups to being imposed on various organisations. We operate within some kind of framework? I ask should consider the small groups. the Treasurer to give consideration to this issue so that, under the incorporations It is great that, in the preparation of this legislation or some type of amendment to this Bill, there was consultation with the Act, we may be able to look after small groups Department of Justice, the Australian Financial of people who just want to save together. It is Institutions Commission, QOFS, industry very difficult for those welfare groups to fit in associations, major providers of funds for anywhere. industry, as well as within Treasury. The problem is that we have forgotten the Mrs SHELDON: As I understand it, it is pensioners' groups and the workers' groups very difficult for small groups to operate who want to set up little funds. Although we financially within the financial market spectrum want better legislation and tighter compliance without this sort of supervision. Indeed, while and accountability, we should not lose sight of this Bill lay on the table of the House, certain the battlers and the ordinary people whom we groups came to me with their concerns. I am represent. sure that they also approached the former Treasurer. I appreciate their position. I will I welcome this Bill. I know that it must be certainly find out whether there is any passed. I realise that it will serve a very good possibility of any such organisational grouping purpose for those groups which it is supposed and get back to the honourable member. My to support. I also understand that it will protect understanding is, however, that it is going to the public. However, I just wanted to raise the be very difficult to do such a thing. The point that, in many cases, we impose all these financial requirements are such these days, extra administration costs and, as a result, and the degree of accountability for individuals those groups that just want to do their own or anyone collecting public money is such, that 7 Aug 1996 Financial Administration and Audit Amendment Bill 2141 it is very difficult for any of those smaller that were being realised by staff at the hospital organisations to operate without a liability to in Mount Isa. Those staff members had themselves. This is the major problem. requested that the hospital retain the However, the point that the honourable proceeds of a sale—I think it was a jumble member raised is correct. The legislation does sale. Absolute authority from the Treasurer seem to exclude small interest groups from was required for the hospital to retain the being able to so operate. proceeds of those sales. I hope that the I have been informed by my officers that provisions of this Bill will overcome that the only Act under which these associations problem, and free up in a sensible manner the would fit is the Associations Incorporation Act, operations of departments in being able to which is controlled by the Attorney. Under that retain the proceeds from such asset sales. Act, those organisations would not be able to A very sensible amendment is put forward pass on benefits to their members. So the Act in the legislation which enables departments would have to be amended to be able to and statutory bodies to bank with financial incorporate them. This is something that the institutions other than banks. At a time when member could possibly take up with the enormous reform is taking place within the Attorney. I would certainly be happy to discuss financial institutions sector—with the Wallis with the member and the Attorney whether committee yet to report there is no doubt that some provision could be made for those even more substantial changes are in the groups. However, I believe that there are offing—we need to free up the capacity of some difficulties. departments and other public authorities in Mr CAMPBELL: I thank the Minister relation to their banking practices. The existing very much for that. arrangements may have been all well and good while the banking sector was so well Clause 8, as read, agreed to. defined—some would even say Clauses 9 to 265 and Schedules 1 to 4, circumscribed—by legislation of the past, but as read, agreed to. given the probable findings of the Wallis Bill reported, without amendment. review and other reviews of the financial and banking sector, those traditional demarcation lines between banks and other financial Third Reading institutions may well disappear. Given that we Bill, on motion of Mrs Sheldon, by leave, are moving to a new financial environment, it read a third time. makes no good sense to have departments needlessly hamstrung in that way. An important point, and probably the FINANCIAL ADMINISTRATION AND most significant element of this Bill—and it is AUDIT AMENDMENT BILL one that the Opposition supports; indeed it is Second Reading in line with commitments that we made while Debate resumed from 10 July (see in Government in relation to the reporting of p. 1467). the public accounts—is the embracing of accrual accounting as a means of reaching an Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich) (5 p.m.): enhanced standard of financial accounting. The financial administration and audit The new Australian Accounting Standard amendments are, collectively, technical in Financial Reporting by Governments is a nature. The importance of them is to enhance standard that the Government is embracing, the reporting process on public entities so that and the Opposition supports that. Certainly, not only the Parliament but also the public as that will be a development in relation to the a whole can better appreciate the keeping of public accounts that will be management of the assets and funds of the adopted, but not without a considerable public sector. There are a number of amount of concern and difficulty on the part of amendments. Some relate to providing an departments. I will come to that in a short enhanced arrangement for the retention of while. revenue that is generated by departments through the sale of assets other than land and I find disturbing it that, in a move to buildings. This has been a somewhat achieve an enhanced level of accountability contentious issue for line departments for and an enhanced standard in relation to some time. financial reporting, at the first opportunity that this Government has had to try to embrace Indeed, it was only a few weeks ago that this higher standard, it has sought to use it as my colleague the Honourable Tony McGrady a weapon. It has sought to misrepresent the spoke of this very problem in relation to assets information that has been derived through the 2142 Financial Administration and Audit Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 adoption of accrual accounting standards in of QUT. The article asserts that all of the the recently published Commission of Audit claims in relation to Budget deficits in report by Dr Vince FitzGerald. Let us be very Queensland, which Dr Ryan has described as clear: despite the tactics that have been being mythical, are really not about economic employed by the Treasurer, the Premier and reporting, and not about providing factual other Ministers—tactics that involve going into information to the community, but rather a the community and denigrating the financial political ploy, a ploy on behalf of the incoming performance of Queensland—the facts are coalition Government that knew in its heart irrefutable that Queensland has had and has that it could not meet the myriad financial enjoyed very sound financial management. commitments that it was entering into in secret The Budget sector has been in a very sound and other deals in the lead-up to the State position, and was kept in a very sound position election last year. In his article, Dr Ryan during the six years that we occupied the commented on the impossibility of delivering Treasury benches as the Labor Government. on all of that election baggage and delivering It was not a case of our trumpeting our a balanced Budget. Trying to push the achievements; it was recognised by every argument that Queensland was facing some agency inside Queensland, outside financial crisis was all about building up a Queensland in the rest of Australia and by the political strategy that, as the forthcoming State international credit rating agencies as well. Budget approaches, would allow the coalition Under Labor, Queensland had an enviable to throw overboard a lot of the electoral financial position, which was a wonderful baggage and solemn promises made to the legacy for an incoming Government. people of Queensland in July last year. We will Mr Lingard: What about pre-'89. see what happens when the Budget is brought down, but I cannot help but suspect Mr HAMILL: I did not quite hear the that the argument put forward by Dr Ryan has interjection when it is first made by the a lot of merit. honourable the Minister for Family Services, Indeed, it is heartening to hear but I am happy to take it. As I have said and commentators such as Dr Ryan and others. as I continue to say, I always give credit where This morning, the Treasurer put great store in credit is due. For many years, Queensland has the comments of Mr Michael Knox, who is an been recognised as having very sound economist with Morgan Stockbroking. That is economic management, both under the the same Michael Knox who, only a few weeks former Labor administration and under its ago, was trumpeting Queensland's budgetary predecessors. I do not resile from that view but position as being the envy of the rest of the what does upset me—— country and that, according to him, it was Mr Lingard: How were we pre-'89? massively—and I say "massively"—over $1 billion in surplus. Those comments flew in the Mr HAMILL: I take that further face of those oft-repeated claims by the interjection by suggesting that the honourable Treasurer and the Premier that Queensland Minister has recourse to Hansard. The point was facing some sort of financial crisis, or that I was making was that the fiscal facing some sort of—as Mr Knox would have it administration of Queensland has been very and the opinion with which I agree—mythical sound for a long time. That sound financial deficit. administration was a hallmark of the previous Labor Government, as I have stated. It is So how could it be that opinions are so at disappointing in the extreme that this coalition variance in relation to the financial position of Government cannot face up to the facts—or the State? It comes back to the way in which will not face up to the facts—that that high the accounts are kept and the way in which standard of financial administration was a some commentators, or some politicians on hallmark of the Labor Government that the Treasury benches, selectively take from preceded the coalition's coming to office. I do different methods of accounting bits of not think it is too much to ask for the facts to information which they then wish to try to be fairly reported in relation to Queensland's fabricate as the reality of Queensland's economy and Queensland's Budget. What financial accounts. I expect that, when the does the Government have to lose by Budget is brought down this year—and the acknowledging the fact that it inherited a Treasurer may care to confirm this—we will see Budget that was in surplus, a Budget that was the Budget papers presented in the traditional sound, a Budget that was on track? fashion on a cash basis. It will be a very interesting basis upon which we can compare I refer to an article that appeared in this the 1996-97 State Budget with the 1995-96 morning's Courier-Mail written by Dr Neal Ryan State Budget and so on back over the years. 7 Aug 1996 Financial Administration and Audit Amendment Bill 2143

It is important that everyone understands minor capital items because effectively a the features of a cash accounting basis for storehouse had been built up. That gives a Budget reporting. As I said, it has been the very misleading impression of the rate at which traditional means by which Governments have the organisation is using resources. Indeed, reported their finances to the public. That cash accounting really does not tell us about really is the strength of cash accounting: it that. That is another good reason why the provides a financial statement. It is all about move towards accrual accounting is receipts and outlays. appropriate. It is all about enabling us to Dr Watson: Cash receipts. gauge the performance of the organisation. Of course, on the other side of the coin, Mr HAMILL: Yes, cash receipts. I was under a cash accounting system we certainly going to point out that it is about when that would not know if, for example, the cash is received and when those outlays are organisation using a cash accounting system made. So it is about cash flow in and out. In is actually incurring liabilities, or certainly terms of the presentation of a financial incurring liabilities into the future. Again, if we statement, that is fine. wish to learn more about the performance of This Bill is about enhancing the quality of the organisation, that is an important issue. In the information that is available to the public this State we have public accounts that are and to the Parliament in relation to the presented on a cash basis and, over time, we Budget. If one wants to try to get one's head can use that to compare like with like. around the performance of public sector In relation to the Queensland organisations—or, for that matter, any Consolidated Fund, which reports on a cash organisation—if one wishes to rely simply upon basis, it was stated by the former Treasurer, a cash accounting system, a number of the Honourable Keith De Lacy, that the problems are identified. For example, under a Consolidated Fund was projected to have a set of accounts which have been kept surplus for 1995-96 in the order of $2m to according to the traditional cash accounting $3m. In February—and I think that it may have basis, there is no item relating to the even been in March—the incoming Treasurer depreciation of capital assets. If we are going announced with much fanfare that there were to build a new school, then the Budget papers going to be a lot of things done to tighten up will show in the outlays a certain amount of the Budget and so on to make sure that the money that has been expended in that 12- public accounts in Queensland were restored month period on the acquisition of, or the to good order through careful management. development of, that asset. In subsequent But surprise, surprise, there was going to be a years, we might see in the Budget an item $2m to $3m surplus in the Consolidated Fund indicating an amount of money being for 1995-96. I understand that on Monday at a expended on maintenance. That does not tell meeting at which I could not attend—but it us whether that expense on maintenance was was attended by a number of members, I timely or whether that expense on suspect, from both sides—when questioned maintenance was adequate to ensure that by my colleague the member for Bulimba, that capital asset is being maintained in a Under Treasurer Dr McTaggart revealed the fashion that will ensure that it can be used into fact that the cash surplus and the the future. Consolidated Fund for 1995-96 was going to A similar situation exists in relation to be in excess of $2m to $3m. That had been inventories. For example, as was often the projected by both the former Treasurer and case before a more enlightened attitude was the present Treasurer. adopted, certainly under the former Mrs SHELDON: I rise to a point of Government, in relation to unexpended funds order. The Under Treasurer, Dr McTaggart, in Government departments, towards the end was not at that meeting. of a financial year it was customary for Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Laming): Government departments to go on a spending There is no point of order. splurge—and I refer to the days of typewriters, ribbons and reams of paper—so that at the Mrs SHELDON: I would just like that end of the year there was no unexpended corrected for the record. balance. Therefore, Treasury could not claw it Mr HAMILL: I was going to say that I back. Of course, it meant a tremendous waste was told his comment was that it was a $5m in public resources. It also meant that, surplus. If Dr McTaggart was not at the although the outlays certainly existed, for the meeting, then I accept the information subsequent 12 months no similar outlays were provided by the Treasurer. If she would like to made for those particular consumables or provide us with the information herself, we 2144 Financial Administration and Audit Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 would welcome that, too. Certainly, my into a Budget surplus for 1995-96. That must information is that, contrary to the claims that be the funniest sort of deficit one could ever have been made from time to time by this find—it is a deficit which is positive; it is a Treasurer about deficits, underlying deficits deficit which is really a surplus. and goodness knows what else, the Mr Campbell: A deficit you have when Consolidated Fund—which I might say on the you are not having a deficit. latest figures that have been published, which were figures published by the Treasurer's own Mr HAMILL: A Clayton's deficit or, as I department, issued by the Treasurer in the have suggested in this place, it is the cult of Queensland Economic Review, and which are the underlying deficit which cultists such as the cumulative figures of the financial year to the member for Moggill were happy to promote in end of March—was showing a $211m surplus. the community. Those sorts of actions are Although I have no doubt that in the really quite irresponsible because everybody— subsequent three months the Treasurer was both in Queensland and elsewhere—knows more than able to run down that cash that Queensland was a paragon of financial balance, I am certainly convinced that we responsibility and that that was certainly the would have ended the 1995-96 financial year hallmark of the former Labor Government. with a surplus in the Consolidated Fund. Quite frankly, people in the community really do not take too seriously the misleading claims We have heard a lot from the Treasurer that the Government has peddled so about the Consolidated Fund. The comments assiduously since coming into office in that have been made are about underlying February regarding the state of the deficits and, perhaps even more Queensland Budget. extraordinarily, about what sort of underlying deficits there might be in future budgetary Let us look at the underlying deficit years. Any Government worth its salt should argument. I suggest to the House that this is be able to deal with future financial years. really about looking at the Budget on a cash Certainly, spending decisions which have been basis. The underlying deficit is about cash taken—and I assume that over the last five accounting reporting. The Treasurer seemed months that the coalition has occupied the to suggest that, in a way, it was an outrage Treasury benches it has taken some that because there was a $51m cash balance decisions—impact on the Forward Estimates. in the Consolidated Fund at the beginning of The point is this that while the 1995-96 the 1995-96 financial year, and because those financial year was shared by the former funds were able to be expended, somehow that constituted a degree of financial Government and this Government, and irresponsibility. obviously decisions that were taken prior to February and decisions that have been taken Most households would understand the post-February have a bearing on the outcome point very well. If people have money in the in that financial year, I suggest that the bank and they use that money not for outcomes in the state of the 1996-97 Budget recurrent purposes that they have to continue can all be owned by the coalition Government. to shell out for—for example, if they involve Therefore, we can get away from the sort of themselves in some financial commitment nonsense that has been peddled that all which requires ongoing financing—but to alleged financial problems are somehow acquire a capital asset, what is wrong with attributable to the initiatives of the former that? In fact, is that not the way that most Labor Government. Six months in office is households run? People save up to acquire probably about one-fifth of the Government's important assets. In so doing, certainly they term in office if it runs the full term of this add to their quality of life and their worth. Parliament. In that time surely the The Treasurer poured scorn at what she Government will have enough gumption and described as an $85m, one-off corporatisation nous to take up the reins of financial payment in the electricity industry. She said management. It is the Government's Budget that, because that was in the public accounts, now. All the talk about underlying deficits and it was a case of using one-off cash receipts so on relates to the Government's Budget. which could not be repeated and therefore The Government has the responsibility of constituted an underlying deficit for the bringing in a sound Budget. We balanced our Budget. It is a fact that in the last couple of Budget; we expect the Government to do years dividends from electricity utilities have likewise. increased substantially, as have their However, over a period the Treasurer has community service obligations, which is the made a range of claims about an alleged other side of the account. As the FitzGerald underlying deficit which obviously translated Commission of Audit made abundantly clear, 7 Aug 1996 Financial Administration and Audit Amendment Bill 2145 there is nothing to indicate that these higher suggest—to try to discount that surplus on the dividends cannot continue into future years. basis that a very large part of it, indeed most Indeed, there could be quite a considerable of it, is made up of superannuation, it is about return to the State through the activities of the the net increase in superannuation. If one electricity utilities. takes the net increase in superannuation On the issue of moneys that were payments away, there is still an underlying transferred from the Commonwealth drought surplus of over half a billion dollars in the assistance funds to farmers and the Queensland Budget. It is all there, and the repayment of loans which had been granted in Treasurer knows that only too well. Indeed, not earlier years from the Consolidated Fund for only does the Queensland Treasurer know rural adjustment assistance—the Treasurer that only too well; the Federal Treasurer also was forced to admit that those transfers were knows that only too well. legitimate budget practices. If one looks at In the publications produced at around every publication issued by the Treasury, any the time of the Premiers Conference, in independent analyst and, indeed, the particular the National Fiscal Outlook Commonwealth, as I suggested this morning, document released by the Commonwealth one finds that Federal Treasurer Costello, Treasury, there were projections of the Prime Minister Howard, the Federal Treasury, underlying surplus in the Queensland Budget the State Treasury, the Queensland Under not only for 1995-96 but also for 1996-97, Treasurer, the Treasurer herself, the Premier, 1997-98 and so on. The figures in that the ALP and the Treasurer's new whipping document were expressed as a percentage of boy, Dr Neal Ryan of QUT, have formed some gross State product and, in every case, it was sort of cabal to undermine public confidence in projected that there was an underlying surplus the coalition Government and the way in which in the Queensland accounts. it has sought to promote or outline the As Queensland has been consistently financial state of Queensland. piling up surpluses, we have found that other Mr T. B. Sullivan: And somehow we're Governments around the country have sought all supposed to have got to the Courier-Mail. to take a leaf out of our book. If we look at the Mr HAMILL: That is right. I should have National Fiscal Outlook documents, we see mentioned that the Courier-Mail is in on it, too. that over the past few years a number of other It is really getting to the point where all the State and Territory Governments have world is wrong except me—"me" being the followed Queensland's lead in that they have Treasurer, in that case. That really brings the moved away from underlying deficits and into Treasurer's credibility into question. underlying surpluses. It was gratifying for the Premier at least to acknowledge what we as Moving away from the cash basis on an Opposition have been saying in relation to which the Consolidated Fund is kept—there this myth about underlying Budget deficits and has been a movement among Governments to see him support what we have been saying. across Australia to try to improve the reporting standards of the public sector. In about 1991 On 11 July in the Parliament, the Premier general agreement was reached by Australian was asked specifically about the National Governments—State and Federal—as to the Fiscal Outlook document and the underlying format for the presentation of the public surplus revealed in the published figures— accounts. When we look at the public figures which had been supplied to the accounts of Queensland expressed in that Commonwealth Treasury no doubt by Mrs fashion, again we find that there is absolutely Sheldon's department. The Premier stated no support whatsoever for the Treasurer's that the "estimated NFO"—that is, National quite spurious claims that the Queensland Fiscal Outlook—"surplus is lower than the likely Budget she inherited had an underlying deficit. actual result". That means that the underlying Indeed, the position is quite the contrary. surplus in the National Fiscal Outlook A number of presentations of accounts document was, as the Premier suggested, have been made under the GFS system. compiled on the basis of very conservative Again, they are presentations which the projections. That has been the feature of Treasurer has published in the Queensland those publications. Economic Review, the next edition of which I Year after year, Treasurer De Lacy would am eagerly awaiting because the last one repeatedly bring down a conservative showed that there was a surplus to the end of projection of underlying Budget surplus and, March of over $1,042m—over $1 billion—for by the end of the financial year, we would the general Government sector. Whilst the generally find that the actual underlying Treasurer has sought—deceptively, I surplus in the Budget was greater than the 2146 Financial Administration and Audit Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 projection. Surprise, surprise, on 11 July in this have the situation I was outlining earlier on in Parliament, Premier Borbidge confirmed that which we can run up inventories in one year, that would be the case again for Queensland with that showing as simply an outlay in the in 1995-96. I suggest that there is no Budget papers, and then run down the underlying deficit in any of that. I know that inventories in the following year, with nothing must be very dispiriting for those who are showing in the Budget papers. The adoption trying to push the line that the Queensland of accrual accounting has been a feature of Budget is somehow in crisis, but the facts governmental financial management practice speak for themselves. The facts are that the in Australia over the past 15 years. It was claims the Government has been peddling made mandatory for Commonwealth statutory across the State have no credibility authorities as far back as 1983. whatsoever. Members opposite inherited the The decisions made by Governments in best Budget in the country and the best more recent years to adopt the system in the financial legacy that could be left by any near future is a position which I note that this Government to its successor. I believe the Government endorses and that we endorsed Government has a responsibility to get on with in Government as well. However, as I alluded the job and to stop trying to cast around and to a little earlier, to think that the transition to find scapegoats for its own financial ineptitude. accrual accounting will be easy would be to Where are we at with respect to accrual delude us all. There is a number of significant accounting? The point is this: there has been problems. I remember quite vividly the a desire on the part of Governments to further transition of accounting from a cash basis to enhance the financial reporting of Government an accrual basis in relation to some institutions and, as I said earlier on in my Queensland public enterprises. When I was comments, to allow for the public and the Transport Minister, it was the ports and the Parliament to gain a greater appreciation of railways. I know that the present Transport the performance of those public sector Minister, the honourable member for Gregory, organisations. Accrual accounting practices really had trouble getting his mind around that allow us to achieve some of those goals. issue at the time those financial reports were Under accrual accounting, we simply do not presented for the first time on an accrual just have a financial statement as such. We basis. will have a profit and loss statement and a Commissioner FitzGerald spends statement of assets and liabilities. As I said, considerable time stating quite clearly the the first attempt to try to do that with respect to problems in relation to obtaining valuations of Queensland's public sector was in the recent assets. I refer to page 92 of chapter 4 of the Commission of Audit report, which contained Commission of Audit report. As to the assets tabulations of the assets of the State. identified by the Commission of Audit—those Commissioner FitzGerald made the point values are important in arriving at a figure in that the critical issue was about maintaining the accounts for depreciation. Commissioner the value of the assets and the net worth of FitzGerald gave a figure of the order of $1.1 the State. In fact, Commissioner FitzGerald's billion. The basis of that estimate for report commented very favourably on depreciation was the estimate of the value of Queensland's net worth. Some $51 billion was the assets. We should treat this matter with the figure the Commission of Audit estimated considerable caution for, as Commissioner as being the net worth of Queensland. In the FitzGerald stated at page 92— report, there is a further favourable comment "It should be noted that the values of as to how that compares with other States. property, plant and equipment have been New South Wales was the case in point. It was largely estimated for the Commission's stated that, if we look at the assets of purposes." Queensland and apportion them across our State's population, as a group we were rather It goes on to say— wealthy; we have a lot of assets. The "The Commission was advised that it important objective for the Government is to was intended that the transitional continue to add to the net worth of the State. arrangements for the reporting of How does the accrual accounting system property, plant and equipment and the differ from the systems to which we have associated depreciation will remain become accustomed over so many years? transitional until the valuation program is The difference is that, instead of just looking at finalised in 1997." cash in and cash out, it looks at revenue and Again, I caution this Government regarding outlays. We recognise when revenues accrue the way in which it runs around with the figures and when outlays are incurred. We do not that are reported in FitzGerald—holding them 7 Aug 1996 Financial Administration and Audit Amendment Bill 2147 up as if they were handed down etched in are not funded for non-cash expenses stone; almost as if they were commandments (that is, they are funded for capital handed down from heaven—that the figures expenditure rather than for depreciation being used here are estimates and estimates expense) will result in their showing only. That is particularly important in relation to financial deficits. This may then give the the value of the land and other assets of erroneous impression that these Government departments. organisations have been failing to live I share the experience with the within their means, rather than being Government. It was difficult in the extreme in merely a reflection of their funding undertaking the asset valuation process in arrangements." relation to Queensland Rail and our ports. For The problem being alluded to by Mr Shand in example, how does one place a value on a that article has been exemplified on a number shipping channel? Valuers will spend not days of occasions now in the careless way in which but weeks or even months arguing the toss on the Treasurer has latched onto a figure out of that process. Yet that is the very process that the Commission of Audit report and tried to the Government has to go through if it is going pretend that it is the same sort of problem that to fully embrace accrual accounting: the she miraculously was able to identify when she valuation of the assets. What value do we put got the keys to the Treasury back in February. on Parliament House? In fact, they are quite different measures. Dr Watson: Depends on who's Whereas the underlying deficit argument, as speaking. we know, is a myth, it has been quite wrong and deliberately misleading to equate the two, Mr HAMILL: I know that we are running and it is an approach which does this at a premium now. But in terms of what is a Government no credit. unique structure, what is its value? Is it its market value? Is it the market value for an As I said before, accrual accounting inner-city lot with good views of the river and a provides a mechanism for the better reporting prime redevelopment site, or does it have little of the Government's aggregate assets and market value because I would assume that, liabilities, in other words, our worth. Of course, unlike the fate of the building that used to that was the major point to be derived from stand on the opposite corner, which was the FitzGerald report. The issue that the demolished in the middle of the night—— Opposition is particularly concerned about in FitzGerald, though, comes a little later on in Mr Mackenroth: Who did that? the report when we get to the consolidated Mr HAMILL: Who did that? That operating statements and the consolidated occurred under a former coalition Government. statement for general Government, where I trust that the same fate will not be meted out figures that were included in the statement of to this structure. assets and liabilities on page 100 of the Mr Mackenroth: The Liberals were out FitzGerald report did not seem to be available there. for the tables that appeared on page 105 and, looking further on—because there is actually a Mr HAMILL: They were out there as note on page 105 of the FitzGerald report well. But that is the point: this whole question referring to note 22d, which appears in the of accrual accounting and its adoption rests appendix of the report—page 117, relating to very heavily upon the value which we accord public enterprise income and payments. to our assets. These are estimates only in the FitzGerald commission report and, as such, The objection we have here is that are highly contentious. Therefore, as the whereas the retained profits—the retained valuations are highly contentious, so must be earnings, if you like—of the public trading the figure that is put in the report in relation to enterprises of the State have been included depreciation. by FitzGerald and his colleagues in that statement in which they arrived at a net worth The point of the transition from different of some $51 billion, they did not include them accounting systems was eloquently put in an in the tables on page 117 and page 105. We article that appeared in a publication from see that as a major oversight, because we John Forster and John Wanna titled know for a fact that in 1994-95 the figure Budgetary Management and Control: The which was stated in this report as not being Public Sector in Australasia. An article in that available was $350m—quite a considerable book written by David Shand outlines the sum. That sum being repeated in 1995-96, it problem quite well. Shand writes— would certainly put the much-spoken-of deficit ". . . it is often argued that enforcing figure which the Treasurer has latched onto in accrual accounting on organisations which quite a different light, because that deficit 2148 Financial Administration and Audit Amendment Bill 7 Aug 1996 figure that the Treasurer took such glee in despite the fact that there are a number of finding in the FitzGerald Commission of Audit advantages to accrual accounting over cash- would have actually come out as a surplus. based accounting with respect to the The failure of the Commission of Audit to monitoring of performance, Shand makes the include those figures gave an imperfect and point that cash flows are important for indeed incomplete picture of the performance enterprises in both the public and private of Queensland's public sector in terms of the sectors. That point should not be lost on this change in our net worth. I know that it was House. Private sector organisations watch their suggested in a press release that these were cash flows, as do public sector organisations. earnings which were not available to the rest If we want to get a true and perhaps more of Government; therefore, they should not be comprehensive picture not only of the financial included in those statements. Quite frankly, accounts but the overall performance of that argument does not hold water, because organisations, then accounts on a cash basis as the Treasurer knows—because she is one and accounts on an accrual basis both have of the shareholding Ministers under the their place. Both are useful. Together they can Government Owned Corporations Act—under deliver us with quite a lot of information that Act it is quite possible for the shareholding regarding the performance and, indeed, the financial position of the entity in question. Minister to take 100 per cent of the profits from those bodies and make that 100 per cent All this Opposition asks is that the a dividend back into the Budget accounts. So Government compares like with like; that we it is quite wrong to assert, as the Treasurer have an end to the sort of nonsense which has, that those figures should not be included does the Government no good and because allegedly they would not be available Queensland a lot of harm in trying to talk down to Government. what has been a superb budgetary and fiscal performance in this State. It is about time that I believe that the Commission of Audit the Government desisted from the dishonesty report has been used in a cynical way by the and the misleading course that it has adopted Treasurer and members of this coalition. The by trying to denigrate Queensland's financial measure of performance has been used to try position—certainly its Budget position—for to give comfort to those who would try to what can only be seen as short-term and promote the false and misleading claim of an political ends. It does the Treasurer no credit underlying Budget deficit—one which has no to make her political agenda her No. 1 priority credibility whatsoever. As I have said, they and the role and responsibilities of the have not been dealing with the same Treasurer, as the custodian of the financial measures. But in terms of the whole of the position of our State, a very poor second. FitzGerald Commission of Audit report, we have heard precious little from this Treasurer The Government's persistent attempts to and this Government in relation to FitzGerald's portray the budgetary position inherited from findings regarding the performance of our Labor as one of crisis not only show a lack of education, health and community service integrity on the part of the National and Liberal sectors—basically because the message that Parties but also, I suggest, it is a betrayal of all was contained in the Commission of Audit Queenslanders, who deserve responsible and report was not the one that the Government economic leadership from the Government wanted to hear. and deserve to be presented with the facts, not fiction, when it comes to their funds, The message in the FitzGerald taxpayers' funds, Government funds—whether Commission of Audit report in relation to the it be in the Consolidated Fund, the Trust and performance of Queensland public sector Special Funds or, indeed, our important public entities was that they are performing very sector enterprises. The Opposition has well—indeed, taken as a group, probably pleasure in supporting the Bill. performing at the forefront of public sector entities in this country. Let us hope that, with Dr WATSON (Moggill) (5.53 p.m.): It the implementation of accrual accounting gives me pleasure to rise to support the across the Queensland public sector, we will Financial Administration and Audit indeed enter into a new era of accountability Amendment Bill. After listening to the shadow and that, for this coalition Government, there Treasurer, the member for Ipswich, I must may be a dawning of an era of honesty in reflect on something he said about the value relation to Queensland's public accounts. of this place. As somebody who has known him for a long time, I believe that, by his latest In the article to which I have already contribution, he devalued his own referred, that is, the article written by David considerable talent as well as the worth of this Shand, there was considerable discussion that institution. 7 Aug 1996 Office of Local Government Commissioner 2149

Mr Hamill: I thought you were a nice period of reporting. One must look at the little secretary. changes in retained earnings. Dr WATSON: I generally am. I was When we consider the retained earnings disappointed in what the member said. at the end of the previous year—I think it was There are a number of provisions in this 1994-95—which the member tabled and the Bill that I could address. I will try to keep my retained earnings that will be available once remarks brief. As the member for Ipswich the final figures for 1995-96 are available, we suggested, one issue that needs to be will find that the accumulated funds will have addressed is the implementation of accrual fallen. In fact, the Commission of Audit has accounting in the external reporting by probably underestimated the deterioration from 1994-95 to 1995-96 rather than Government entities. This is required by AAS overestimated it. When we get the complete 29 of the Australian Accounting Standards. In figures, I think we will find that there has been common with the former Government, this an underestimation in the deterioration of our Government is intending to implement that by financial position. the end of the financial year. The second thing which I believe is It is a bit unfortunate that, in discussing unfortunate, and which the member accrual accounting, the member for Ipswich demonstrated in his analysis of the demonstrated quite clearly that he does not Commission of Audit, was that he failed to understand it. It is also disappointing that he acknowledge that in those documents was an indicated that he does not really understand attempt to reconcile the accrual accounting the central thrust of what was in the and the cash accounting depictions of the Commission of Audit. Let me explain one or state of Queensland's financial entities. The two of those points. The issue of cash versus important point is that it does not matter accrual accounting is not simply one of putting whether one compares 1994-95 and 1995-96 a different picture on the state of an entity, under a cash system—where one is looking at such as the State of Queensland or the recurrent expenditure, current cash Government of Queensland. It really requires expenditure and recurrent cash revenue—or a shift in the way one thinks about the issue. whether one looks at the estimates that were A cash accounting concept certainly does made. The estimates were made on an measure cash receipts and cash outlays in a accrual accounting basis for 1994-95 and particular financial period. The accrual 1995-96. It does not matter under which accounting concept requires one to shift one's system one compares them because, under focus slightly. It is like a paradigm shift. It both of them, there is a deterioration in the certainly looks at revenue and expenditure in a financial position of the State. That is what the particular period. That may or may not be Commission of Audit shows. It is that cash. Also, very importantly, it looks at the issue—the deterioration between 1994-95 and changes in assets and liabilities during a 1995-96—which the Commission of Audit particular financial period. That is something picked up. That is the issue about which it said that cash accounting does not do. that if we extrapolate it and do nothing about Mr Hamill: I said that. it, we will find ourselves in a significantly worse position. It does not matter which one we use, Dr WATSON: The member the deterioration is still there. It just so misunderstood it. happens that accrual accounting shows it up Mr Hamill: No, I didn't. more easily because it is a more complete reporting of assets and liabilities as well as Dr WATSON: The member expenditure and revenue. misunderstood it. Debate, on motion of Dr Watson, Mr Hamill: I made that point. adjourned. Dr WATSON: The member did not actually make that point. He misunderstood it. OFFICE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT He demonstrated the fact that he did not COMMISSIONER understand it when he referred to the Commission of Audit's failure to include Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH retained earnings in a particular area. (Chatsworth) (6 p.m.): I move— Retained earnings are the accumulation of "(1) That the Parliamentary Legal profits and losses from past periods which Constitutional and Administrative Review have not been appropriated in the form of Committee review the Office of Local dividends to shareholders. Those retained Government Commissioner and report to earnings do not apply to a particular financial the Parliament on— 2150 Office of Local Government Commissioner 7 Aug 1996

(a) if the Office of Local of the National Party. They were quoting from Government Commissioner the Fitzgerald report. In another dissenting should be continued; report, they recommended— (b) if the Office of Local "That a Local Government Government Commissioner is Commissioner be appointed . . ." continued, the scope and role of In its report, EARC recommended— that office; "a permanent Local Authorities (c) if the Office of Local Boundaries Commission be established to Government Commissioner is examine external boundary matters;" not continued, what In making that recommendation, EARC independent process should be quoted the National Party of Australia's put in place to review external submission, which supported the concept of a and internal Local Government local authorities boundaries commission. In his boundaries; submission, the secretary of the National Party And that the Committee be required to of Australia (Queensland), Ken Crooke, report to the Parliament by 30 November, stated— 1996. "The NPAQ supports the (2) That the Government take no establishment of a permanent Local action to abolish or change the Office of Authorities Boundaries Commission to Local Government Commissioner until the examine boundary matters and to review Parliament has considered this report." the recommendations on boundary The subject matter of tonight's motion is changes and amalgamations put forward another broken promise of the Liberal/National by the Commission." Party minority Government. On 6 March this So the National Party supported the year, in answer to a question from a establishment of an independent process. representative of the Cambooya Shire Council Mrs McCauley interjected. at the Darling Downs Local Government Mr MACKENROTH: No, the Minister is Association meeting, the Minister for Local going to sack the person who is conducting Government stated— the independent process. "Our policy was to review the Office The Minister told the Darling Downs of Local Government Commissioner and meeting that she would review that office we will be doing that." before she took any action, but that is not Yet only two weeks ago, the Minister for Local what happened. To find out what happened Government told the Local Government we need to turn to the Gold Coast Bulletin of Commissioner that he should wind up his 25 July. An article states— operations. In fact, she has sacked him "A furious Premier Rob Borbidge without conducting any review or informing the yesterday bluntly told Mr Hoffman"— Parliament or anybody else of what process is to be put into place. I will talk a little about that the Local Government Commissioner— later. "to butt out of the de-amalgamation Firstly, we need to look back into history to referendum controversy. see how Queensland came to have an Office . . . of Local Government Commissioner. If we turn Mr Borbidge said he was 'appalled' to one of the dissenting reports of the by Mr Hoffman's actions. Parliamentary Committee of EARC, we find He said it was not the job of the that two members of that committee stated— commissioner to pre-empt . . ." ". . . the most important aspect of Mr Within two hours of that article appearing in Fitzgerald's recommendations. That the paper, the Minister called the Local is—the removal of electoral boundary Government Commissioner into her office and changes and processes from the political told him that he must wind up the work arena. Responsibility would be given to an because he was being sacked. That is the independent and publicly accountable scenario of what happened. That was reported body. This recommendation underpins further in the Gold Coast Bulletin on the the very basis of the whole review following Saturday. process." In Parliament on 25 July, in answer to a That dissenting report was submitted by Mr question from me, the Minister for Local Stoneman and Mr FitzGerald—both members Government stated— 7 Aug 1996 Office of Local Government Commissioner 2151

"The latest case of this, when he arrangement statements were also recommended changes"— available within this timeframe." she is referring to Greg Hoffman, the Local Not only do we have the Act asking for those Government Commissioner— statements but also we have a direction from "to the internal boundaries in the event of the department to the Local Government a referendum result which Commissioner to prepare those statements, deamalgamates the Gold Coast/Albert asking if those statements can be ready by 28 council, was less than helpful to the whole June. I table that letter for the information of process." honourable members, because that is what the Local Government Commissioner acted In fact, the Minister is saying that he should upon. not have done that. Mrs McCauley: Nobody is quibbling Mrs McCauley: I didn't say that. with that. Mr MACKENROTH: That is what the Mr MACKENROTH: The Minister Minister is saying. That is what Mr Borbidge promised that a review would be conducted said when he said that Mr Hoffman should into the Office of Local Government butt out of the process. Commissioner, yet she has told him to finish If we turn to the Local Government up before that review is carried out. Amendment Act, which the Minister for Local The motion that I have moved seeks a Government put through this Parliament parliamentary review of that commissioner's earlier this year, section 137ZH(1) states— office. It is not saying that it should stay in "For the referendum for the affected place, but it is saying that it should stay there area, the commissioner must prepare"— until such time as that review is done. That and I stress "must"— review would be done by the Legal, "an assessment . . . of the electoral Constitutional and Administrative Review arrangements the commissioner Committee, the committee that replaced the considers are likely to be put in place Parliamentary Committee for Electoral and under a reinstatement regulation." Administrative Review. It is its role to do that. Once that review is complete—and we have In other words, if the referendum was passed, asked for it to report back this year, so the what would be the arrangements and what report should be completed by 30 would be the boundaries that could be put in November—then the Parliament can decide place? It is even worse than that. Here we on the independent process that should have the Premier criticising the Local continue. It is most important that an Government Commissioner for having taken independent process exists. an action. We have the Local Government Minister doing the same thing in the I will quote Councillor Jim Pennell, the Parliament—criticising him for taking an action. President of the Local Government Why did he take that action? The Act required Association of Queensland. He stated— him to do so. "This issue of independence of local On 11 June 1996, the Minister's own government is a very significant matter department wrote to the Local Government that goes to the heart of local democracy. Commissioner. That letter, which I will table, . . . states— After four years, it is appropriate to "I would refer to section 137ZH of the review the operations of the Local Local Government Act 1993 dealing with Government Commission." the preparation of an electoral That is not a problem, because the arrangements statement by your office. In recommendation was that it should be this respect, an electoral arrangements reviewed within five years. We do not dispute statement will need to be prepared for that. Mr Pennell continues— those areas where a referendum will be conducted—Gold Coast, Burnett and "but it needs to be a public review run Warwick. through a parliamentary committee." It is understood the independent Only this week, the President of the persons appointed to prepare the Western Queensland Local Government explanatory statements are looking to Association, Dougald Davidson, supported an have them finalised by 28 June 1996. It independent process being carried out. would be of advantage if the electoral Mrs McCauley: I wonder why. 2152 Office of Local Government Commissioner 7 Aug 1996

Mr MACKENROTH: We know that Mr This Premier is hell-bent on the rule of Davidson is not a member of my political party. Cabinet rather than the rule of law. He has I am not quoting people who are members of attacked the Local Government Commissioner the Labor Party. Those people may support for doing his duty according to law, because other parties. We will leave others to work that this Premier has a blind spot when it comes to out. independent people doing their duty according This week EDROC chairman, Councillor to the rule of law. This Premier has made the Peter Taylor, supported not only an same attack upon the Parliamentary Counsel, independent review process being put in place Mr John Leahy, whose adherence to the but also an independent review of the Office fundamental legislative principles under the of Local Government Commissioner. That is Legislative Standards Act has brought him the what we should do. We are not saying that the criticism of the Premier—again simply for doing Office of Local Government Commissioner as his duty according to law. It is that inability of it stands should exist forever. Things do an arrogant National Party Premier to see the change. However, we need to have a importance to public policy of independent parliamentary committee examine that office, persons doing their duty according to law that and that parliamentary committee can make is so important in this debate. recommendations which can be debated in In exactly the same way, the Premier has this House. The Government should not sack failed to see his own duties according to law that person because he has made decisions are pursuant to the Native Title Act to with which the Government does not agree negotiate in good faith. Again, it is a legal duty and not tell the people of Queensland what it on the Government of Queensland to will put in place to replace that office. negotiate in good faith in accordance with the provisions of the Native Title Act. Far from Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga) complying with that duty, we saw an arrogant, (6.10 p.m.): I second the motion moved by the overbearing Premier attacking the provisions member for Chatsworth. This is a classic case in which good policy requires the protection of of the Act and seeking to use a legislative an all-party parliamentary committee rather bludgeon to override it. Equally, we see an than destruction by an arrogant Government attack by the Premier upon others who do intent on the rule of Cabinet rather than the their legal duty according to law, such as the rule of law. Director of Public Prosecutions, who is charged under the Director of Public Prosecutions Act The position of Local Government with conducting prosecutions independently. Commissioner was contemplated as a result of He has been attacked, too, as one of the a lengthy process by an independent people who is, according to the Premier, ill- commission, namely, the Electoral and informed or politically motivated. Yet that Administrative Review Commission, which was officer is simply doing his duty according to law then reviewed by an all-party parliamentary under the Director of Public Prosecutions Act. committee, namely, the Parliamentary The Chair of the Criminal Justice Commission Electoral and Administrative Review raised similar concerns about the need for Committee, of which at the time I had the independence in public life. He was attacked honour to be the Chair. That position is most as one of the people who was ill-informed or important if local government boundaries in politically motivated. the twentieth century and the twenty-first This is a classic case in which the century are to reflect the needs of modern Government of the day and, in particular, the times and not simply the needs of the days of Premier of the day, is willing to use political the gold rushes when many of the local power to stifle independent office bearers government boundaries were created. willing to do their duty according to law. It is no As the member for Chatsworth has surprise that the Premier has introduced a observed, this is a case in which the Premier Public Service Bill into this House which is has savagely criticised the Local Government designed to put the fear of instant dismissal Commissioner simply for doing his duty into each one of them. He is hell-bent on according to law. The Honourable the member crushing independence and on crushing those for Chatsworth has tabled the letter of 11 June people who are carrying out their duties 1996, which sets out the relevant provisions of according to law. The Premier has done it with section 137ZH of the Local Government Act the Local Government Commissioner, and and establishes that Mr Hoffmann was doing that is why it is so important to support the his duty according to law. It is that which has motion. raised the ire of the Government. Time expired. 7 Aug 1996 Office of Local Government Commissioner 2153

Mr SPRINGBORG (Warwick) our own destiny, was taken away from (6.15 p.m.): There is absolutely no question of us—once something happens, it is silly to go this being an attack on the independence of back to the way it was." That is the way the local government in this State. Our people of the area voted and that is why they Government believes very much in the voted the right way. I understand that, over independence of local government, and has the last six months of the former Government, always felt that way. It is very interesting to the honourable member for Chatsworth, Mr consider that those opposite, who now believe Mackenroth, hardly spoke to the Local in all-party parliamentary committees, were so Government Commissioner. loath to adopt such a process when they were Mr MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of in Government only six short months ago. It is order. That was claimed in the Parliament last this Government's responsibility—it is the week and that is untrue. I ask for it to be elected Government of this State—to put in withdrawn. place the processes and the policies which it believes are right for the State of Queensland. Mr SPEAKER: The honourable member asks for a withdrawal. We are not arguing that there is not a role for an independent Local Government Mr SPRINGBORG: I withdraw that. I Commissioner; we are arguing that there is no was led to believe that there was certainly a need for a full-time Local Government less than cordial relationship. Commissioner, which is what we have at the Mr MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of moment. When the coalition was in order. That is untrue. In the last six months Opposition, it always flagged its intention to that I was the Minister, I met with the Local review that position. The Minister has done Government Commissioner a number of times that. She has made her decision. and I spoke to him on a number of occasions. Mr Mackenroth: You are sacking him. That is untrue and I ask for it to be withdrawn. Mr SPRINGBORG: The Minister has Mr SPEAKER: The member is asking made her decision. Of course, she reviews the for it to be withdrawn. matter. I say to the honourable member for Mr SPRINGBORG: I withdraw. If we Chatsworth that that is the process. She sat look at the commissioner's decisions, we find down, she looked at the arguments for and that some of them are very curious. In the against, and she made a decision. I dare say past in this House, the honourable member for that she has made the right decision. I believe Thuringowa certainly advocated the that the process that she will put in place, amalgamation of the Thuringowa and about which members opposite will know Townsville councils. When one considers a shortly, will justify what the Minister has done. number of issues, one realises that that was a It is fair to say that the independent Local political move. I also understand that there Government Commissioner has probably not were certain machinations behind the scenes. lived up to the expectations of many people Recently, I visited New Zealand. That when legislation was passed in this House country has undertaken local government some time ago to facilitate the establishment reform, and it is very much looking at the of that particular office. Throughout the State, future of the position of its Local Government a number of examples demonstrate that the Commissioner. It is believed in that country Local Government Commissioner, when that the task of the Local Government drawing up boundaries and amalgamating Commissioner may be better achieved by certain shires, may have erred in his judgment. another process, perhaps a part-time process, I refer to one such example in my electorate, which is somewhat less expensive. We in this the Allora Shire. It was never really a part of House advocated the establishment of the the process, but the Local Government Office of Local Government Commissioner. Commissioner decided to include Allora with Certainly, in hindsight people's expectations the Warwick Shire. I admit that, a few have not been realised. The Office of the weekends ago, the people of that area voted Local Government Commissioner is a very the right way, because once something has expensive office to fund. The Government happened, one cannot turn back the clock. It believes that exactly the same process can be is as simple as that. In Allora, there was a 57 achieved independently—a process which will per cent vote for deamalgamation; it was 40 be worked out in consultation with local per cent in Rosenthal. Many people said to government—which is going to be far less me, "As much as we resisted and as much as expensive and which is going to achieve the we did not like what happened—that we felt need for ongoing boundary review in this State that our independence, our ability to decide but on a needs basis. That is very important 2154 Office of Local Government Commissioner 7 Aug 1996 and is something that many people in why, before ditching a credible mechanism—a Queensland would certainly support. mechanism that has independence—the I believe that the Minister has made the Government should actually do some proper right decision. It is the prerogative of any community opinion canvassing and consult Government to legislate and to enact its local communities. This decision is being policies. Certainly, that is what this made on the basis of a gut reaction from Government has done. people who are offended by the outcomes of a proper process. If Government members Time expired. were smart and true to the concerns that they Mr WELFORD (Everton) (6.20 p.m.): In raised about the EARC process, they would this proposal by the Government to gut or apply the principles to their own process that garrotte the Local Government Commissioner, they said should have applied to EARC, I detect the sinister hand of a bygone era namely, better community consultation. All weaving a tangled web to dispatch that the motion proposes is that this independent agents such as the Local Parliament, as the supreme body responsible Government Commissioner to the history for making decisions about institutions of this books. In addition, when this move is looked kind through the laws that we make, gives the at in the context of the Public Service Bill, one community and those with expertise the can see that this Government is undermining opportunity to input to a committee of our the independence of a range of State Parliament the information necessary to make institutions which are designed to provide an a proper decision about this, rather than independent oversight of units of public running off half-cocked and beheading an administration. institution whose decisions the Government The proposition that the Opposition is simply happened not to like. putting forward tonight is an eminently As I have mentioned, there are a number sensible one. All we are saying to the of reasons for strongly supporting the Government is: do not make decisions in a decisions of the original EARC and vacuum; do not make decisions on the run; Commissioner Hoffman. For example, on a make decisions on the basis of the best regional planning basis alone, taking account possible information available to this of the environmental impacts of local planning Parliament. decisions, it is absolutely imperative that the A Government member interjected. external boundaries of local government throughout the State are not seen as fixed in Mr WELFORD: As it was with the concrete and the private fiefdoms of individual Electoral and Administrative Review councillors. They should be seen as fluid, Committee—of which the interjecting member relevant to catchments and relevant to was also a part—and as it would be with the environmental considerations. These current parliamentary committee, that would boundaries will change over time as the give the opportunity to canvass public opinion population of the State fluctuates in the and views, and properly research the issue of various regions. The impact on regional how external and internal boundaries of local environments has to be considered. If these governments throughout the State should be things are to be taken seriously from the point adjusted. of view of planning on a State basis, then this There are arguments both ways. We have Parliament and the Government of the heard arguments from the Government, weak day—whichever it might be—must have it as they may be, about what is wrong with the within their powers to provide a mechanism Local Government Commissioner. So far, the that properly researches those issues and strongest argument it has is that it did not like ensures that external boundaries are not the outcomes. It did not like his decisions, but regarded as something that cannot be never once did it have all the information that reviewed and changed. was available to the Local Government Another reason why this decision is pre- Commissioner and his office. When the emptory is that no alternative mechanism is Government formed its views, it did not have being put in place. Until we research the the information that was available to the alternatives, we should not rush ahead. original EARC when it formed its views about internal and external local government Time expired. boundaries. Mr STONEMAN (Burdekin) (6.25 p.m.): Of course these issues raise concerns at I rise to support the Minister, because what the local level; of course they are important to she is doing is absolutely correct and local communities. That is precisely the reason reasonable, and does not take away from the 7 Aug 1996 Office of Local Government Commissioner 2155 independence or the propriety of the operation Mr SPEAKER: The honourable at all. This system is embedded in National member finds some remark untrue and Party philosophy. As the member for Warwick offensive. Would the honourable member said, it is part of our plank and philosophy. withdraw? It is always interesting that honourable Mr STONEMAN: I am not sure which members opposite come up with selective remark he refers to, but in deference to you, quotes from the famous dissenting report of Mr Speaker, of course I will withdraw. However, the committee of which I was proud to be a I would be delighted to show the Chamber Mr member. One of the things they overlook is Sherman's absolute rebuttal of Mr Foley's that at every stage I have consistently made arrogant attempts to change an agenda. the point that I believe that, although Mr The cost of running the Office of Local Hoffman might be a good officer, he is not the Government Commissioner is interesting. appropriate person to be the Commissioner for Indeed, I think it has gone beyond reasonable Local Government. I have made that point to bounds. One has to question some of the him directly, on a number of occasions I have costs that the commissioner himself incurred. I made that point in this Chamber, and I make it have a number of accounts here, including again. However, that is not to say that that for a banquet at Conrad Jupiters Hotel everything he did was wrong or that everything totalling $999.70. Rosemont chardonnay he contemplated was—— seems to be the go down there! I have an Mr Mackenroth: This motion does not account from the Trade Winds in Cairns deal with the individual, it deals with the role. totalling $1,120. In these instances, why does one need to go to the extreme by going to the Mr STONEMAN: We are talking about most expensive places? Maybe the the role. The point I make is that in my view—it commissioner needs to meet, wine and dine. has always been my view—the commissioner However, the account that intrigues me comes should most appropriately be chosen from from the historic Cecil Hotel in north Ipswich. among elected members of local Mr Hoffman booked that hotel for 40 to 50 government—people who have experience in guests but only 18 turned up. representing the community. I have never walked away from that view and I never will. Mr FOLEY: I rise to a point of order. The experiences in New Zealand, Victoria and This attack on Mr Hoffman is not relevant to New South Wales are the same. Although Mr the matters in the motion before—— Hoffman was, no doubt, a good servant of Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of local government, he was a bureaucrat from order. local government. I believe he did not have Mr STONEMAN: I am talking about the the necessary broadness of view. management of the Office of Local I was very interested to hear the Government Commissioner. He spent $827 at honourable member for Yeronga talk about that function in Ipswich. If the attention to the arrogance of Premier Borbidge. Who can detail of the commissioner is such that the ever forget the arrogance of Wayne Goss, honourable members opposite are so when he appointed the EARC commissioners supportive of him, they are supportive of this prior to the appointment of the EARC largess in expenditure as well. Parliamentary Committee because he wanted, Time expired. in his arrogant way, to put his buddies in Mrs CUNNINGHAM (Gladstone) before we, as members of that committee, (6.30 p.m.): I noticed that one of the earlier had the opportunity to look at the speakers quoted from the PEARC report. I, appointments in due process? His arrogance too, wish to quote from that report has been surpassed only by Mr Foley himself when, as chairman of the committee, he tried At 6.37, it states— to cook the books. If the honourable member "The Committee believes an wants to take a point of order, I would be independent body like the LABC with delighted because tomorrow, for the benefit of initiating power could enhance the House, I will table Mr Sherman's rebuttal of Queensland local government Mr Foley's attempts to change the meaning of administration." replies that were given to queries I raised. I Further on, it states— would be delighted to do that. "The Committee has taken particular Mr FOLEY: I rise to a point of order. I note of the submissions to it regarding find the member's previous remark offensive whether or not the LABC should be a and untrue. I ask that it be withdrawn. permanent body. The Committee accepts 2156 Office of Local Government Commissioner 7 Aug 1996

that because little assessment of boundary reviews. I have been personally boundaries has occurred during the last involved in that situation. They create a great six decades, there is at this stage a need deal of insecurity and tension within local for a permanent full-time body to authorities, not only for the elected councillors undertake that assessment. Once a but also for the community and employees of comprehensive assessment has been local authority areas. My request for the performed, however, it may be preferable deferral of this motion was based on the fact that future changes to boundaries be a that the Minister had indicated that she was function of the Department of Housing intending to state her intentions for the future and Local Government. Alternatively, it with respect to the boundaries commission. I may be the case that such functions felt it was better to hear her proposals and to should remain with an LABC, but perhaps perhaps save a lot of heartburn for local a part-time LABC." authorities, particularly if her proposals were Then it mentions that a review should occur appropriate and achieved all of the goals after no later than five years. stated in the National Party document— independence, separation from Executive I spoke to the Minister about the issue Government and so on. concerning the local government boundary commissioner when it found its way into the As I said, if the Minister's proposal is media recently. I wished to know for my own acceptable, it will save a lot of grief. If it is not clarification what the current Government's acceptable, the motion of the Leader of attitude was towards boundary review. The Opposition Business will remain on the list to Minister provided me with a document which be brought forward later. However, the Leader states— of Opposition Business deferred on that issue. The member for Everton said, "Don't make "The NPAQ submits, that the decisions in a vacuum." That is precisely the appropriate body should be one point that I make. It would be good to see independent of executive government what the Minister proposes for the Local which deals with the local authority Authority Boundaries Commission and to then electoral matters and local authority make a decision on this motion. We have to boundaries (internal and external), drawn look at things such as the cost to Government from a concise but representative base and the community, because the community chaired by a person with wide but practical pays the bill. We have to look at the knowledge of local government and its effectiveness and independence of the body. I responsibilities." will not be supporting the motion tonight. I I and many people in local government would believe it would have been preferable to see not argue with that statement. The document what the Minister was proposing and to then goes on to say that the LABC is the bring forward the motion. appropriate body which should carry out those Mr Mackenroth: You didn't ask me to functions and that it should be totally defer the motion. You told me that you weren't independent. On that basis, I found it very going to support it because you wanted to find difficult to question the current Minister's out what they were going to do. You did not attitude towards boundary reviews. ask me to defer the motion. When it was foreshadowed that the Mrs CUNNINGHAM: I asked the motion was to be debated tonight, I spoke honourable member whether there was room with the Leader of Opposition Business to wait and see what the Minister was regarding his proposal and asked whether proposing. there was any room to defer the motion until we knew what the current Minister for Local Time expired. Government proposed for the Local Ms BLIGH (South Brisbane) (6.36 p.m.): Authorities Boundaries Commission. A lot has I rise tonight to support this motion and to been said in the newspaper about the fact express my unequivocal support for the that the Minister has given the current parliamentary committee system, which has boundaries commissioner a set time frame in an invaluable role to play in providing scrutiny which to finish his work. I do not know the and transparency of Executive decision detail of that. I have not queried the issue in making. Any failure to support this motion any great detail and have not heard anything tonight reflects a lack of confidence in the role other than what has been said in the debate of these committees. tonight. The Westminster system is based on However, I know the level of grief afforded accountability and checks and balances and to local authorities by internal and external on the adequate exposure, review and 7 Aug 1996 Office of Local Government Commissioner 2157 discussion of issues such as that which is council amalgamation, Lex Bell. This recent before the House tonight, which strike at the fracas is a clear echo of the debacle created in core of the democratic process and the this Chamber when the Premier dumped his separation of powers. Once more, this own Local Government Minister during the Government has revealed itself to be corrupt, introduction of deamalgamation legislation— incompetent and malicious—all within a single again, to satisfy the demands of Lex Bell. decision. It is corrupt because the decision to Putting internal National Party disputes to abolish the independent role of the Local one side for a moment—this House should Government Commissioner carves the heart concentrate on protecting due process, on out of a key outcome of the Fitzgerald and utilising the committee system introduced by EARC reforms. the Labor Government and carefully Mr LESTER: I rise to a point of order. considering the independent role of the Local Mr Speaker, I am part of this Government, Government Commissioner without the and I am certainly not corrupt. I take great dominance of the Executive branch. offence to the member's comment. Consideration of the future of this office and Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point the attacks on the Local Government of order. Commissioner are not occurring in a vacuum. This is not the only tinkering with the system Ms BLIGH: Nice try! that is going on. If it was, we might not be so It seeks to impose the power of the alarmed. It is grave indeed that this House is Executive on the statutory framework of considering this matter in the current Queensland. In the absence of independent environment. At a time when the Premier's officers, panels will be selected to draw up intentions in relation to every independent local government boundaries for each set of office in Queensland is being questioned the circumstances. Of course the Government will length and breadth of this State, at a time pick the panels. We all know its track record in when the Premier is under fire for seeking this regard. Will Lex Bell get a position on one further powers over statutory bodies and of these panels? tribunals, we find ourselves contemplating the possibility that the Office of Local Government The Premier is incompetent because in Commissioner will be abolished because the his attack on the present incumbent in the Premier does not like the present incumbent. Office of Local Government Commissioner, Mr What type of signal is the Premier sending to Greg Hoffmann, he displayed a breathtaking every other independent judicial and quasi ignorance of his Government's own Local judicial officer in Queensland? When we Government Amendment Act, an Act which consider his ignorant and vicious attack on Mr requires the commissioner under law to do Hoffman, what faith can we have when he exactly what the Premier said that he should says, "Trust me. I don't intend to abuse these not do, that is, provide a draft set of powers."? We can have the same faith that boundaries to electors before the referendum. school cleaners had in the word of the Did the Premier read this legislation before he Education Minister! signed it off in Cabinet? It may be that some changes to this office The Government is malicious because the are necessary, but if this Government is so Premier chose to publicly attack the confident that its decision is right, it should commissioner, making ill-founded and possibly have the confidence to expose that decision defamatory accusations in a vicious attempt to to an all-party committee of this Parliament. confuse electors on the Gold Coast and the The moves to abolish this office are motivated general public as to the motives behind the by malice, they are marred by incompetence commissioner's implementation of the and underpinned by an intent to corrupt public Premier's own legislation. It is clear that the administration. This Parliament should rise up Premier has confused the statutory position against these moves and demand the right to and the present incumbent with the office scrutinise through its all-party committee any itself. proposals regarding the future of the Local The member for Warwick also fell into this Government Commissioner. I urge members trap tonight. He stated that he did not like to support the motion. some of the boundaries drawn up in his own Hon. D. E. McCAULEY (Callide— area and so thought that was the basis on Minister for Local Government and Planning) which the office should be abolished. The (6.40 p.m.): I urge the House to reject Mr sordid reality to this whole sorry business is Mackenroth's call for this matter to be referred that the Premier is at the behest of the former to the Legal, Constitutional and Administrative Gold Coast Mayor and chief opponent of the Review Committee, because that would be 2158 Office of Local Government Commissioner 7 Aug 1996 dragging councils back down a track that they So we have no argument with the Opposition went down at the hands of the Labor in regard to an independent process. That is Government, which imposed a long period of what everybody, including Dougald Davidson, uncertainty and trauma on local government. is saying. We are committed to an The member is proposing to repeat that very independent process. We must be. I am not a process. That is not acceptable. Councils have masochist. I do not want to be involved in local been down this track. What they need now is government boundary changes. I have no a settling down process; they do not need to desire to interfere at all. I am now on the be stirred up. What the member is proposing record as stating that very clearly. would simply be stirring them up, and that is The reason for not allowing the Local not acceptable. We all know the agenda that Government Commissioner to complete his the previous Labor Government had for local term, which expires in the middle of next year, government. Its sympathy for and is a financial one. Queensland cannot afford understanding of local government was not $1.4m to run an office that could be run much, exactly renowned. I believe that this proposal much cheaper. We cannot afford a would be the wrong thing to do. commissioner who goes around holding There have been a few misconceptions banquets for $1,100 at Jupiters Casino or bandied about tonight. The shadow Minister whatever it is. He holds team-building claimed that when we all came back from workshops for his staff at a cost of nearly holidays the Local Government Commissioner $8,000. We do not need that. We need a very would be gone. The member would surely be simple process that keeps costs to a minimum aware that the only way that the position of and achieves the same end. We do not need Local Government Commissioner can be to have someone who is spending $1.4m a abolished is through amendments to year and whose work—— legislation in this House. This whole matter has to come back before the Parliament; it is not Mr Stoneman: The New Zealand commissioner just had a secretary and worked something that can be done overnight. from a little, dingy office and did a marvellous To set the record straight, I have to put it job. to the Opposition—although I do not expect the shadow Minister will believe it—that I had Mrs McCAULEY: Yes. The work is no direction from the Premier on this matter at diminishing. I believe that the commissioner's all. In fact, it is rather insulting that the office is overstaffed. I believe that there is no member thought that I did. He is probably one longer a need for a full-time commissioner. of those who thought that I had a direction to The work in hand is the internal boundaries of sack my director-general as well. I have to tell some 39 councils and 10 external boundary the member that I had no direction from the reviews, but the work is certainly diminishing. It Premier on this matter. I am quite happy to is now time to look at some method whereby acknowledge the correctness of what Mr we can have a process in train that does not Hoffman did on the Gold Coast in relation to need a full-time commissioner who runs the boundaries. We enacted the amendments around the countryside running up bills. I concerning the referendum and reiterate our commitment to the independent deamalgamation process. I am well aware of process. All existing provisions in the Local that. What I did say was that it was singularly Government Act dealing with the issues of unhelpful, and that was certainly true. references, their independent assessment and public advertising of the proposed changes will Let me state very, very clearly that we are remain. I will be discussing the legislative committed to an independent process. Twice changes necessary for part-time operation in the House already the National Party's shortly with the—— submission to EARC on this matter has been outlined, but it bears reading again by me. Time expired. The National Party submitted that— Mr SCHWARTEN (Rockhampton) ". . . the appropriate body should be one (6.45 p.m.): One must ask the obvious independent of executive government question: what are these people frightened which deals with the local authority of? Why are they frightened of having this electoral matters and local authority matter reviewed by their peers in this place? boundaries (internal and external), drawn What is so wrong with honouring their promise from a concise but representative base to the people of Queensland, undertaking a chaired by a person with wide and review and having it carried out by the practical knowledge of local government members of this place? Do they not have faith and its responsibilities." in the committee process? Clearly not! 7 Aug 1996 Office of Local Government Commissioner 2159

The reality is that the Premier, Mr confidence in the post-Fitzgerald era by Borbidge, let the cat out of the bag in the Gold providing a transparent, independent, Coast Bulletin on Thursday, 25 July 1996, accountable and methodical process for when he said that— the review of Local Government external ". . . Mr Hoffman was 'massively out of and internal boundaries." step' and had redrawn the boundaries That is what this Government is running a without any reference to the million miles away from at a million miles an Government." hour. Members opposite are running from that If that isn't a blast from the past, I would like to concept as quick as their legs will carry them. know what it is! We are back to the days when As the Opposition spokesperson pointed out, Joh domineered with a gerrymander in this the fact is that this review would be State and drew lines over maps to make sure undertaken by the Government's peers in this that Labor voters were not effectively place, but it is even frightened of that process. represented by way of one vote, one value. I now want to draw the attention of the Those are the times that this Government House to the remarks of the member for wants to get back to. This is an underhanded Gladstone. I must say that I was very surprised and sneaky way of moving away from an to hear her say that she supported what the independent process of determining what the Government is doing, because clearly her local boundaries should be. I heard the Minister shire council did not do so back in 1991. It say, "Trust us on this one. I have said it twice supported— in the House." Tell that to the school cleaners "A permanent boundaries whom this Government told about half a Commission (being established) to dozen times that it was not going to sack arbitrate on all future boundary matters." them. This Government is as free of the truth as a snake is of hips, and everyone in this It also supported— State now knows it. "The permanent boundaries I want to draw attention to the fact that we Commission (being charged) with are not alone in our views on this matter. Let investigating any requests for us analyse what grave crime the commissioner amalgamation or boundary change which committed. As I understand it, under section is sought by . . ." 137 of the Act he had to do what he did. Mr What has changed since 1991 that will now Borbidge did not like the fact that the allow Government members to get their commissioner was acting lawfully and had to grubby little hands—and that is what they want provide the report that he did, and was indeed to do—on local government boundaries, defer requested by letter on 11 June 1996 to do just to their mates and appoint one of their mates that. No, that is not good enough. That is to be the commissioner, just as they did in the reason enough to dismiss the man—simply old days? This is a blast from the past. because he did not act, as Mr Borbidge said, Members opposite just cannot help in the interests of the Government. Nowhere in themselves. It is as though the last six years of the Act does it suggest that that should be the Labor Government, of accountability—— case. Nowhere in the Act does it say that the Time expired. Government has the final say, and quite clearly that was not the intention of EARC. We Ms WARWICK (Barron River) do not want to go back to those shabby, (6.50 p.m.): May I say at the outset that many shoddy, crooked old days when those people in my area of Cairns were less than opposite ran the Government of this State. pleased with the manner in which the Office of That was the reason the Act was drafted in Local Government Commissioner carried out that manner. the amalgamation process between the shires of Mulgrave and Cairns. The process made a The Cairns City Council, the Noosa Shire complete mockery of the idea of public Council and the Institute of Municipal consultation. There has been a great deal of Management of Queensland have protested misleading information put out by the Labor long and hard about this move by the Party on the future of the Office of Local Government, and they would support the Government Commissioner. motion before the House. On this issue, the Noosa Mayor, Mr Noel Playford, has stated The shadow Local Government that— spokesman, Mr Mackenroth, in claiming that the office will lose its independence, is being ". . . while the Commission does not mischievous. He knows that the Minister's always make popular recommendations it proposal to introduce legislation to convert the has done much to restore public office from a full-time to a part-time basis is 2160 Office of Local Government Commissioner 7 Aug 1996 exactly what is needed. The workload of the time, will save the taxpayers of this State current full-time commissioner and his staff will hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. shortly be greatly reduced. It makes plain For Mr Mackenroth to call for a review to economic sense to replace his costly office be undertaken by the Legal, Constitutional with a commissioner who would operate on a and Administrative Review Committee is really part-time basis when and where needed. the height of hypocrisy. He knows that there is Whereas I totally support the role of absolutely no reason for the Office of Local parliamentary committees, I strongly reject Mr Government Commissioner to continue in its Mackenroth's call for the Legal, Constitutional present form. The independence of the Office and Administrative Review Committee to of Local Government Commissioner will be examine the Office of Local Government maintained. The only change will be that the Commissioner. There is absolutely no need for office will be run on a part-time basis. As I such a review. What Mr Mackenroth is calling have said, this change will save for would be a complete waste of public funds. Queenslanders hundreds of thousands of Indeed, if Mr Mackenroth was still sitting on dollars every year. There are many highly this side of the House, there is little doubt that experienced professionals with vast he would be foreshadowing the same experience in local government who can be changes to the Office of Local Government called upon as needed to perform all the Commissioner as we are. The coalition has necessary duties of Local Government never made any secret of the fact that we Commissioner. They will operate with complete would review the Office of Local Government independence, as they should. It is the Commissioner. Our review has nothing to do intention of this Government that all existing with independence but everything to do with provisions in the Local Government Act with improved efficiency and cost saving, to which respect to the issue of references, their this Government is committed—unlike independent assessment and public members on the other side of the House. advertising of the proposed changes will When the current commissioner was remain. directly appointed more than four years ago by The Minister will shortly be discussing with the then member for Lytton, Mr Tom Burns, the Local Government Association the his term was for five years. It was not a legislative changes necessary for the part-time permanent appointment. That five-year term operation of the Office of Local Government expires next July. Most of the work that the Commissioner. We do not envisage that there commissioner was asked to undertake has will be any problems. The Minister has asked now been completed. The Government has the commissioner to complete the priority spoken to the commissioner and asked him to electoral review work that he has on hand. undertake a number of reviews as a priority. This will be progressed in accordance with the The completion of those reviews will allow the current law. The Minister is also looking to smooth operation of the local government bring into Parliament in the next few months elections next March. The commissioner has legislation which will lay out an interim and less been asked to undertake this work because costly process for independently dealing with any boundary changes and other electoral further external boundary changes. arrangements need to be approved by the Time expired. Governor in Council before the end of October. This is to keep in line with the joint Question—That the motion be agreed role agreement with the Commonwealth. to—put; and the House divided— AYES, 40—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Once these priority reviews as well as Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, De Lacy, several outstanding external boundary reviews Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Goss W. K., are completed, the fact is that the workload for Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, McElligott, McGrady, the commissioner and his staff of 11 will be Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, very much reduced. That is the sole reason for Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, Rose, the changes to the office that have been Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, foreshadowed. The office has been costing Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Roberts, Sullivan T. B. Queenslanders around $1.5m every year. NOES, 41—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, With most of the work that the commissioner Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, was asked to do now completed, there is Gamin, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, simply no reason for that large and expensive Hegarty, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Laming, Lester, office to be maintained. The changes that the Lingard, Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, coalition wishes to make will maintain the full Perrett, Quinn, Radke, Rowell, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stoneman, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, Wilson, independence of the office but, at the same Woolmer Tellers: Springborg, Carroll 7 Aug 1996 Adjournment 2161

Pairs: Stephan, D'Arcy; Gibbs, Tanti; Members present should not just take my Livingstone, Santoro. word for it. They should listen to what people Resolved in the negative. who rely on community health funding have to say about their future under the coalition in Queensland. It is all over the media in far- ADJOURNMENT north Queensland, including the Cairns Post, Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer—Leader of which is why I cannot believe Mr Horan's Government Business) (7 p.m.): I move— response to this issue. Mr Horan's answer to a question from the shadow Minister for Health "That the House do now adjourn." on this very serious health crisis up north was the most aggressive and uncaring answer from a Minister that I have heard for a long Health Care, Hervey Bay Electorate time. He should be forced to apologise. It Mr NUNN (Hervey Bay) (7.02 p.m.): I should not be too long before the media and wish to draw members' attention to a serious others wake up to the fact that this is the sort health issue in my electorate. Indeed, based of strategy used by a defensive and weak on recent disturbing events reported in the Health Minister—someone who is rather afraid local press about treatment at the Hervey Bay to actually stand up in this place and tell us Hospital, concerns continue to grow. With this what he has been doing for the past six in mind, I call on the Health Minister to think months. I know for a fact that some of Mr carefully about his recent decision in relation to Horan's most senior officers are contemplating the Bayhaven Nursing Home, which he that course of action already. approved on 28 May 1996. That is contained I return now to my specific electorate in this ministerial submission which I have community health needs. Mr Horan must be here. I call on the Health Minister, Mr Horan, to prepared to give a guarantee that the State redirect funds received as a result of the Government will come up with extra funds for imminent sale of the old Hervey Bay Hospital Hervey Bay if the coalition wants to keep this back into improving health standards in the nursing home open, because the facility is in Hervey Bay/Maryborough region. need of major redevelopment to bring it into I would also like some assurances from line with Commonwealth outcome standards. the Minister in relation to the future of staff of Of course, those standards might well be the nursing home as a consequence of the sacrificed in favour of the cost-shifting and sale of the old Hervey Bay Hospital. Staff and cost-cutting measures being undertaken by residents of the Bayhaven Nursing Home the Howard Government with respect to could be adversely affected by this sale as any transferring aged care responsibilities to the potential buyer could decide to develop the States in full. It is a ludicrous situation in which site for an alternative purpose. I believe that a patient cannot get a Panadol under the this is all the more reason for Mr Horan to give "Back to Basics" health system Mike Horan- this House a firm commitment that he will give style. It is a do-it-yourself health system, the back to this community the expected revenue likes of which we have not seen since the to be gained from the sale of the old Hervey Nationals were booted out of office in 1989. Bay Hospital, which is estimated at around I would like to mention how that sort of $5.5m. crisis is certain to continue as a result of the Given the Minister's cutbacks to director-general's latest memorandum to all community health services generally across district health managers regarding budgets. In the Health portfolio, with cuts to non- that memo authored by the director-general Government community health service on the subject of budgets, Mr Stable states— providers as just one example, I ask Mr Horan "Continued minimisation of staffing to put his ideological and ignorant prejudices levels and rigorous scrutiny of staff aside in relation to community health and start approvals is absolutely essential." giving back support services to people living in That is clearly a regime that is more interested local communities. I know that he will deny in staff cuts than it is in an efficient and service this, just as his media office has denied delivery driven health system. I am all for virtually every health story put to them for health systems that stay within budget, but comment, but the truth is that community commonsense would tell all honourable health funding has been cut according to members that that is not always an achievable Gaye Hollingsworth from the Yarrabah objective due to the very nature of health care. community, who spoke out in total desperation Doctors and nurses and other health on ABC Radio in Cairns this morning. professionals need to be able to make sound 2162 Adjournment 7 Aug 1996 clinical judgements about treatments for Ambulance Station. The current Redlands patients at all times and not have to Ambulance Committee is headed by a local compromise their professional practices for the long-time resident of the area, Mr Joe Abeya, sake of a directive like this. Quite frankly, a prominent citizen whose family has been in people want the best treatment: they do not the area for generations and who well want the dollar dazzler special or the half-price remembers the support the local community option with respect to their health needs. The gave to raising funds for the Cleveland station community at large understands that. years ago. Regrettably, after a taxation Unfortunately for Queenslanders, Mr ruling in 1994, donations to the Ambulance Horan has milked this issue for all the cheap Service and local ambulance committees are political points he could over the years. Now, no longer tax deductible. Not surprisingly, to save his own neck, he is trying to impose a donations to the Ambulance Service and local budget regime that is unworkable. He is not committees have declined since that decision interested in reining in red tape and and it has declined by more than two-thirds to bureaucracy. His obsession with exaggerating around only $500m Statewide in the past budget overruns under Labor is one of the financial year. I would encourage the Minister most transparent political stunts ever dreamed for Emergency Services to pursue the review up. That memorandum from his director- of the private binding rule currently before the general just goes to show that it will not be Deputy Commissioner of Taxation to reverse long before all his chickens come home to this anomaly. roost. Further, the Director-General of Health It is ironic that a tax deduction is still informed district managers— allowable for donations to hospitals, yet I am ". . . a monthly limit will be placed on your sure that ambulance services are just as expenditure and you will be unable to important. The Queensland Ambulance draw cheques once this limit is reached." Service is in the business of providing vital life- saving services, and I am sure it should not be In other words, "You will get what we've got relegated to a second-rate position behind money for. Come the middle of the month, hospitals. you're done. You can die in peace." In other words, even if a hospital runs out of Panadol, I will be playing my part in the Redlands it will not be allowed to fix the problem locally. Ambulance Committee by encouraging the Minister to accelerate the funding for this Time expired. particular centre from the long-term budget, where it is currently, to the Budget for the Redland Bay Ambulance Committee 1997-98 financial year. Obviously, in the current financial situation, it would be Mr HEGARTY (Redlands) (7.07 p.m.): I unrealistic to expect funding for this service in would like to bring to the attention of the this current Budget, but I certainly hope the House the fine efforts being made by the Minister will look favourably on the efforts this residents of Redland Bay in the formation of committee is making in raising funds to equip an ambulance committee to pursue the the centre when it actually comes to fruition in establishment of an ambulance station in their order to provide the extra services and local area. Currently, residents are serviced by equipment that communities expect as part of the Cleveland Ambulance Centre, which is the normal service provided by an ambulance shortly to be relocated within the Cleveland centre. I am sure that the Minister, as he has area. However, because of distance and the shown so far in his role as Minister over the growing population in the Redland Bay area, past six months, will consider favourably the the need exists to establish another effort being made by the local community. I ambulance centre locally. have no doubt that he will be considerate of A site has been identified for some time those efforts and provide those funds as soon on council-owned land at School of Arts Road, as is humanly possible. which will be geographically advantageous to The Redlands community is very close- the Redland Bay/Victoria Point area, as well as knit and the people in the community are very to the newly developing bayside estate at conscious of the need to look after Mount Cotton. The Redlands community is no themselves. It was for that reason that they stranger to raising funds for much-needed formed that local ambulance committee. community facilities. Several decades ago, the However, these days it would be beyond the community identified the need for the first expectations of any local group to provide the ambulance station in the Redland Shire and hundreds of thousands of dollars to construct within a few weeks had raised the necessary the station or perhaps acquire the land if it is funds to establish the first Cleveland not owned currently by the State Government. 7 Aug 1996 Adjournment 2163

Therefore, I urge the Minister to give commitment to the development of best favourable consideration to assist that funding practice in the use of modern information as soon as it is humanly possible. technology solutions. There are 20 Queensland users of Praxa systems and 60 users throughout the eastern Australian States and Burnett Shire Council New Zealand. Praxa also serves 430 local governments throughout Australia under a third Mr SCHWARTEN (Rockhampton) party software supply agreement. Board (7.11 p.m.): A fortnight ago to the night I stood meetings are held 2 or 3 times per year on in this place and raised allegations that had rotation in the States of Queensland, New been passed on to me by various residents in South Wales, Victoria, and Tasmania and New the Burnett Shire. In that speech, firstly, I Zealand. As authorised by Council decision at a called on the Minister to conduct an inquiry General Meeting, council representatives into the matter and, secondly, I stated that if attended their first board meeting in Tasmania. the matters raised were proved to be incorrect, Council notes that advance purchase I would correct the record. I referred the matter arrangements allows Council to travel interstate and to New Zealand for a cheaper cost than to the Minister, who has advised me that she travelling to Cairns or Townsville. The returns has had a look at this matter and that she to Council lie in cheaper software, appropriate believes the Burnett Shire Council has no case solutions and knowledge of the systems. to answer. I find the Minister to be a person of References Council Minutes—Membership integrity and honour. I take her at her word of Board that that is indeed the case. However, I have been provided with documentation by the Council Minutes—Authorisation to attend meeting Burnett Shire Council which answers most of the allegations. The council faxed them to me 1.5 Costs the next day. For accuracy, I seek leave to As noted above, all attendances were have that documentation included in Hansard. authorised by Council decision and costs were provided in the 1995/1996 Council budget. Leave granted. These allocations flow from the Council's 1. The misuse of ratepayers funds corporate plan and operational plan where 1.1 Council Cars development of "best practice" and staff development are recognised strategies for the The employment agreement between council Council to meet its mission of serving the and senior employees allows for private use of needs of the community. vehicles. The use is covered by either a performance based employment agreement or a References Corporate Plan Extracts "pay for use" arrangement. Operational Plan 1995/1996 References Council Minutes—Adoption of Extracts Policy (Vehicles) 1.6 Council Receptions 1.2 Golf Trips The 1995/96 Council Budget allocated $10,000 There have been no golf trips to Sanctuary for Council receptions. This allowed Council to Cove—any such suggestion is a complete sponsor a partners lunch during the 1995 LGAQ fabrication. Annual Conference held in Bundaberg at a cost 1.3 Sanctuary Cove of $6000. The remaining $4,000 was used for the costs of a function hosting a visit by the Council recently authorised at a General "Endeavour Replica" ($1500), the Chairman's Meeting and as provided for in the adopted annual Christmas Function ($2000), and the budget of Council attendance by staff members official opening of the Moore Park Hall ($500). at a Praxa (a Computer Software Solutions Company) Australian Users Group meeting and The Christmas function is a traditional end of management forum. This council formed the year event where the Mayor and his Council Queensland Branch of the Praxa users group thank media, industry, government, senior staff back in the mid 1980s and has presented and neighbouring Council representatives for papers at this meeting attended by users from the cooperation and work of the past year. The the Eastern Australian states and New Zealand. event was held in the Shire—a logical site—and References Council Minutes—Authorisation costs were kept to a minimum by accepting the to attend conference Mayor's offer to have a Bar B Q dinner at his farm. Council employees did assist in preparing 1.4 Tasmania for and removing items after the event. Costs Earlier this year, and as authorised by Council for that time were booked to the above budget decision at a General Meeting, council allocation. accepted an offer from Praxa to join the Local References Council Budget—Executive Authorities Solutions Advisory Board (LASAB). Services Council has been selected as one (1) of the two (2) Queensland members of the Board. This is 2. Material Personal Interests—Elected achieved by invitation only and requires a Members 2164 Adjournment 7 Aug 1996

2.1 Crs. Hazenberg and Doyle Maryborough. The company is recognised as a Please refer to the attached details of the "case" professional and reputable firm providing such and the response received from legal advisers services in the local area. Building purchases for the Queensland Local Government were made at amounts less than the valuation Association—Stephen Fynes-Clinton of King & advice received while sales were made at Co., Solicitors. The response dismisses any amounts equal to the valuation advices suggestion that a material personal interest received. The adult son of the Mayor, a exists in this case. resident of Bundaberg, is an employee of that firm, working as one of several qualified valuers While the decision to purchase land and build that operate for the firm in the local area. the Chambers/Office at Bargara was not unanimous, it was a clear majority decision of References Local Government the Council and followed a report from the Commissioner Report Extracts Council committee investigating same. The Council Minutes—Sale of purchase could not be undertaken by Council existing buildings. until it was endorsed by Council and the 4.2 Legal Action—past allegations Council Meeting minutes indicate that all Councillors were present at that meeting. A council is a legal entity and has the power to protect its own interests, including its good It is difficult to comprehend how a Council name. Criticism that lacks any supporting would operate if an elected member, being a evidence at all or is based on fabrications and landowner in the Shire, could not propose or untruths is most likely to be investigated by vote on Council decisions. council, its management or its legal adviser. References E Mail message—Details of Appropriate action, including solicitor's letters case (MPI) will be taken to protect Council's interests. E-mail message—Legal Opinion Examples of such letters are enclosed. Council Minutes—Decision to References Sample letter from council's purchase land at Bargara solicitor 3. Staff Misconduct Mr Slack: Are you going to apologise to them? 3.1 Planning & Environment Court Appeal It can only be assumed that the persons making Mr SCHWARTEN: I am pleased that the "very serious" allegations to Mr. Schwarten the Minister has chosen to enter the debate. were present at the Court appeal hearing as No, I do not intend to apologise to them at all. there can be no credibility for any source of the On a number of occasions, I said that I have allegations if that source was not present. The referred allegations. If my friend was doing his legal system has the power and authority to job and talking to those constituents, they deal with the issues alleged to have occurred. A would not have come to me in the first place. I copy of the reasons for the judgement decision will give him the drum: the people of that area are attached to clarify any misunderstanding of call him slack by name, slack by nature. My the judge's comments. It is noted that the friend is on the beak. I have had a lot of appeal was dismissed. people—— References Reasons for judgement— Appeal xxx of 1996 July, 1996) Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will refer to the Minister as "the Honourable 4. Other Matters Minister", not "my friend". 4.1 Council Offices Mr SCHWARTEN: That is clearly not The existing ex-Gooburrum and ex-Woongarra the case, anyway. Obviously, it was a trifle buildings are both individually and collectively, unsuited to the needs of Burnett Shire. Burnett sarcastic of me. If the Honourable Minister was Shire is different to either of the two previous doing his job, I would not have been councils. contacted in the first place about the Moneys Creek situation over which the Minister The reference to Local Government Commissioner Hoffman is incorrect. The effectively closed the door in his constituents commissioner reported on various references to faces. So the Minister should not preach to office accommodations that were raised during me about apologies. his investigation process and quite correctly I make it clear that the allegations that concluded that the decision on an office for were made were not my allegations; they were Burnett Shire was a decision for Burnett Shire made by the Honourable Minister's alone. As shown in the meeting minutes, the Council decisions to sell the buildings were not constituents and ratepayers in the Burnett "split-votes". Shire. They were not my allegations. During my speech, I was at pains to make that very As the Council has no qualified valuers on its staff, valuations for any building purchase or clear. I also point out that a headline in the sale undertaken by the council were undertaken Bundaberg News-Mail indicated that I had by Maddern Valuations of Bundaberg and retracted those statements. I again say that 7 Aug 1996 Adjournment 2165 that is not the case; I have never retracted tumbling from the mouths of Opposition those statements as they were not my members concerning the dumping of the tolls statements to retract. I have said time and from the Sunshine Motorway, I thought that it time again that in all fairness I believe that the was time to join the member for Maroochydore people—and since I have been in this place, I and put the record straight once and for all. do not know of any member of Parliament The genesis of this saga goes back to the who has actually put the contrary view into mid 1980s when a private group planned to Hansard so that people can make up their build a toll bridge across the Maroochy River. own minds—who have made those allegations The concept was taken over by the should put up or shut up. The fact of the Government of the day and extended into a matter is that the document that the council motorway south through Maroochydore and has supplied is now privileged in the same way Mooloolaba and then out to the Bruce as those allegations are privileged. It is up to Highway with three proposed toll booths. That the people to make up their own minds about road was to be a suburban bypass road, it. I say to the member opposite that I would similar to the Gaven Way on the Gold Coast, not get too carried away—— which never was nor was ever intended to be Mr SLACK: I rise to a point of order. The a toll road. honourable member made allegations within Local reaction was predictable outrage. that statement that, for argument's sake, I However, the Sunshine Coast required a regularly visited the shire chairman's bypass to the series of congested local roads residence. As far as I am aware, I have never along the beachfront. In fact, the Sunshine visited his residence. I do not even know Coast does not have any other north-south where it is. That is the sort of smut that this main road through Mooloolaba. To his credit, fellow dealt with when he brought forward Mike Ahern eventually recognised the those allegations. The member should unfairness of the situation and rescinded all apologise to me. I ask that he withdraw that but the bridge toll and dismantled the statement. The member should also apologise Mooloolaba toll plazas. The Labor Opposition to this Parliament for bringing forward those of the day fiercely attacked the whole toll road types of unsubstantiated allegations. concept, claiming it to be a rort. In fact, prior to Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Honourable the 1989 election, a letter signed by the Minister has asked for a withdrawal of that honourable member for Logan went out to the remark. residents of Cooroora, who are now basically Mr SCHWARTEN: I will withdraw situated in the Noosa electorate, promising to whatever remark the Minister found offensive. abolish the tolls. At the 1989 election, the ALP If he prefers, I can get a statutory declaration candidate won Cooroora and at the same to say that the Minister has been to that election the ALP came to power. particular residence. I will do that. I did not say However, in early 1990 the Labor that the Minister had been to that residence Government broke that promise and rebuilt regularly; I said that it was used for National the two disbanded plazas—which were, Party fundraisers. I suppose the Minister is incidentally, located in Mike Ahern's then going to deny that. Landsborough electorate—and lifted the Mr Slack: I don't know. I really don't. bridge toll leading to their Labor-held electorate of Cooroora. Talk about pork- Mr SCHWARTEN: The Minister has barrelling! Community outrage again ensued, never been to the house in question? and so it should have, resulting in the Mr Slack: As far as I am aware, I have formation of Toll Busters, who actually never been to the house. I cannot recall that. occupied a part of the motorway land for some Mr SCHWARTEN: Let us see whether months to arrest an attempt by the that is the case. In common with some of his Queensland ALP Government to cut off a toll- mates, the Minister may have a poor memory. avoiding manoeuvre. Toll Busters became the I am quite prepared to get that statutory visible, audible focal point representing the declaration. To tell the truth, I was not views of the vast majority of the Sunshine interested in it. Coasters. Time expired. The Labor Government's blatant broken promise on the tolls also made it impossible to travel from Kawana to Mooloolaba or to Sunshine Motorway Buderim, which are contiguous suburbs, Mr LAMING (Mooloolah) (7.16 p.m.): without using the toll road. However, a toll Owing to the incredible amount of rubbish plaza itself could be avoided by use of devious 2166 Adjournment 7 Aug 1996 loops and tortuous U-turns on surrounding ignorant of the facts or have set out to mislead local council roads. That caused massive the Parliament. I table a map which shows confusion and congestion on those minor that the motorway and the electorate of roads. Caloundra are a mile apart. I can assure the House that the vast The abolition of tolls on the Sunshine majority of residents remained steadfastly Motorway was never a vote-buying exercise, furious at the situation on account of the fact but the rectification of a grave political that, firstly, it was a blatant broken election miscalculation made by Labor in 1990. promise; secondly, parts of the road existed Time expired. previously; thirdly, free community access between home, work and school had been denied; and, fourthly, such a within-the-region Maddern Valuation Services road was not a luxury but a necessity and Mr DOLLIN (Maryborough) (7.22 p.m.): I should have been free as such roads were in make reference to a speech delivered in this other areas which had been funded by the House on 23 July by the member for Gympie, usual existing impositions on motorists of Mr Stephan, in which he set out to whitewash Federal fuel excise and State registration fees, various shonky and dubious valuations at which Sunshine Coasters pay the same as Aldershot and Hervey Bay conducted by other Queenslanders. Maddern Valuation Services. The honourable member for Mount The valuations are shonky because they Gravatt is on record in this House as claiming were jacked up or down to suit certain deals that the abolition of these detested tolls was a and financing and in no way represented an hasty and ill-considered decision. Let me put even-handed, honest, true valuation of worth. the record straight: since prior to the 1992 Just three dubious valuations almost cost election, the abolition of the tolls on this Hervey Bay City Council ratepayers $1.2m. motorway has been clearly stated National One has to wonder how much such inaccurate Party and Liberal Party policy. Operating valuations have cost Hervey Bay ratepayers losses of the motorway company had pushed over the years. As a Hervey Bay ratepayer, the ever-increasing debt to nearly $200m. this is a matter I intend to pursue. That silly Labor Government-inspired situation The member for Gympie has incorrectly had already required massive subsidies from stated that I relied on the press to provide me other areas to avoid a financial disaster. with the evidence of Maddern's dubious In an endeavour to solve the impasse, valuations. In fact, I obtained the valuer's two years ago while I was in Opposition I name, Maddern Valuation Services, and most brokered an offer from a leading petroleum of my proof of the conflicting valuations from company to lease an appropriate site on the the Hervey Bay City Council under freedom of motorway for a state-of-the-art service station, information provisions after the council refused including a major fast food company and to supply me with the relevant information probably Australia's first drive-through bank. concerning valuations that plainly prove that That was to be on the condition that the tolls council ratepayers came close to losing were removed. Successive Transport Ministers $1.2m. I have tabled all of those documents in rejected that proposal with no detailed the House. explanation. At this very moment, other A statutory declaration, declared by a service station proposals are being journalist of the Hervey Bay Independent investigated. newspaper, states— The Maroochy Shire Council had also "I, DIETER ERNST (ERNIE) PAUSSA been adamantly opposed to the tolls on the of 405 Esplanade Torquay, in the State of motorway right from the beginning. It Queensland, do solemnly and sincerely commissioned a report which indicated the declare that, considerable social and economic cost to the shire from tolls on our internal roads. This is I make this declaration in response to not to say that Caloundra councillors were not a speech in the Queensland Parliament also vehemently opposed to these tolls of on July 23, 1996, by the Member for vengeance, but none of the Sunshine Gympie Mr Len Stephan regarding a Motorway is in Caloundra City or the electorate Maryborough businessman, Mr Lloyd of Caloundra. The honourable members for Maddern. Bulimba and Whitsunday, who referred to the In that speech, according to the motorway as being in Mrs Sheldon's Hansard record, Mr Stephan makes a electorate, should take note. They are either number of comments and assertions 7 Aug 1996 Adjournment 2167

which I believe to be incorrect in both fact issue and I have certainly instructed that and substance and which impugn my none of the people in my department use professional integrity as a journalist and him again.' the reputation of the Hervey Bay I declare that Mr Chambers made Independent newspaper. this comment in a tape recorded interview Hansard records Mr Stephan as with myself and in the presence of the saying that the Hervey Bay Independent Mayor of Hervey Bay, Councillor Fred reported on valuations 'conducted by Mr Kleinschmidt. The reported quote is a Maddern' which were subsequently the direct transcript from that tape recording. subject of revaluations. Since that article appeared, at least As the journalist who wrote the two two Hervey Bay City Councillors have in reports I declare that I did not name Mr open committee and council questioned Maddern in either of the reports nor Council's continued dealings with the firm identify him in any way. I did not even of valuers at the centre of the reports and know that Mr Maddern was the valuer Council policy on engaging valuers, the concerned until some time after my first most recent occasion being last week's report. Neither myself nor the newspaper ordinary meeting where the matter was wish Mr Maddern any harm and have the subject of a question on notice. therefore been scrupulous in maintaining At no time at any of those meetings his anonymity, even after he was named where Mr Chambers and myself have in the Parliament as the valuer been present has he refuted the report in concerned. the Hervey Bay Independent or resiled Hansard further records Mr Stephan from the comments attributed to him. as saying that: Neither has he made any representations 'However, the member quoted, again to myself or the newspaper regarding the from the Hervey Bay Independent, a story reports. about another Maddern valuation done I make this solemn declaration for the purchase of a former rail corridor conscientiously believing the same to from the Hervey Bay City Council. It be true, and by virtue of the reported that as a result of the provisions of the Oaths Act 1867- undervaluation the acting CEO of the 1988. council, Bob Chambers, would no longer Taken and declared by me at Hervey Bay deal with Mr Maddern and had instructed this 31st day of July." his staff to refuse Mr Maddern any future business. Mr Maddern approached Mr This statutory declaration discredits most if Chambers, who had been angered over not all that the honourable member for the article because he had been Gympie had to say on behalf of Maddern misquoted. What Mr Chambers had Valuation Services. actually said was that the job would be Time expired. offered to another firm, because Mr Maddern had already been engaged for the prospective purchaser and obviously Cattle Industry could not act for the buyer and purchaser Mr MITCHELL (Charters Towers) alike. Mr Maddern has been employed by (7.28 p.m.): For the past six years, most of the the council again—the same council northern and central cattle producing areas reported to maintain that it would never have been devastated by drought and today deal with him again. This fact was as much as 24 per cent remains so. A revealed by the member himself.' shortage of pasture and water has meant tens The article referred to by Mr Stephan of thousands of sheep and cattle have had to appeared in the Hervey Bay Independent be sold or sent to agistment. The export on January 25, 1996, and was based on market for live cattle to Asia has thus been a an interview with the then acting CEO Bob boon to stock owners who have not been able Chambers. to get their stock to the quality demanded by saleyard operators and abattoirs. The live In the article, Mr Chambers is cattle export trade has grown rapidly from reported as saying in direct quotation about 100,000 head exported four years ago marks: to 500,000 head from north Australia in 1995. 'I don't use that valuer and I haven't Indonesia is the major market, taking around had discussions with him since this last 45 per cent of the trade, with the Philippines 2168 Adjournment 7 Aug 1996 taking about 40 per cent and the balance the bulk of carting was done by Northern going to Brunei and Malaysia. Territory operators from Cloncurry to Darwin. Around 65 per cent of cattle currently The advantage of shipping live cattle from going to South East Asia are drawn from Karumba in preference to Darwin is Queensland, with the bulk of them currently appreciated by the Indonesians and north going through the port of Darwin. Trade is Queensland cattle producers. Cattle destined expected to increase by a further 200,000 for South East Asia from central and north Queensland will suffer less stress and chance head to more than 700,000 head over the of bruising and injury on the shorter road trip to next two years, an increase in value of Karumba than would be the case if they were approximately $70m. A large percentage of transported to Darwin. Sea transport is that increase will be from north Queensland, preferred by the cattle industry as the cattle do thanks to the initiatives taken in recent months not get as damaged on the boats as they do by the coalition Government. Cattle producers in road transport vehicles. While the shipping in central and north Queensland have warmly distance is longer from Karumba than from welcomed the decision the Government Darwin, the advantage of Karumba is that announced in June to undertake major cattle spend a longer time on the ships, which development works for the Port of Karumba to have been described as floating feedlots. take advantage of this pending boost in the live cattle trade. The Government is spending South East Asian countries are also $3.5m to dredge a shipping channel so that working towards increasing their trade with the large cattle ships can use Karumba Port, a north Queensland, as there appear to be five move favoured in particular by the new cattle ships coming on stream for this Indonesians. The development of Karumba is trade in the near future. Honourable members also seen by this Government and may well ask why the growing demand from Queensland cattle producers as a priority if our South East Asia for cattle from central and producers are to have access to their fair north Queensland. I am told that South East share of the booming Indonesian market for Asian countries favour the high content Bos live cattle export. Indicus type cattle typically bred in north Queensland. Our central and north The Government has also made a Queensland cattle are preferred because they commitment to road, bridge and port are regarded as being of higher quality. infrastructure to improve access to Karumba Time expired. Port by cattle road trains. Local transport operators will also benefit greatly by more Motion agreed to. cartage inside Queensland, where previously The House adjourned at 7.30 p.m.