69 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 70 from the House them but Mr. Subramanian Swamy has Swamy was what the world will hereafter brought delinquency to the proceedings of this remember is that this Parliament was bold House in the past and we should also not enough, when it came to the protection of the forget his very behaviour here on the day when privileges and rights of this House, it took he marked his attendance last and when the firm action and put down, for all times, such Obituary was being read out by yourself, how, machinations which would destroy the fabric the House knows it, he raised a point of order of the parliamentary institutions in our and ran away. Is this the way for which he eo"untry. wants protection? Sir, if we want protection we must also know how to obey and how to Sir, I support the Motion. listen to the rulings and submit to the dignity SHRI KALI MUKHERJEE (West Bengal): of this House. And the same thing applies to It is a shame that of all persons Mr. Krishan the proceedings which have been initiated Kant has taken the brief of Mr. Swamy's case thereafter. He had ample opportunity to come, and his gang. he had ample opportunity to justify, and if he felt at that time, when he entered the House MR. CHAIRMAN: The House stands last, that he needed protection, I am sure, he adjourned till 2.20 P.M. could have come to you and said, "Mr. Chairman, I want your protection; I have come The House then adjourned tor into this House and I want your protection". I lunch at twenty-two minutes past am sure, Sir, no protection would have been one of the clock. denied to him. But, Sir, he d;d not. He only insulted the House and ran out of the House. The House reassembled after lunch at twenty-two minutes past two of the clock, the And what is his bravado? Mr. Subramanian Vice-Chairman (Shri Lokanath Misra) in the Swamy's bravado is very simple. He wants a Chair. name by doing wrong things because sometimes you believe that when you do a MOTION RE-EXPULSION OF SHRI wrong thing you get publicity. SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY FROM THE HOUSE—Contd. SHRI J AG AN NATH BHARDWAJ: Money also. SHRI SANAT KUMAR RAHA (West Bengal): Sir, I rise to oppose the amendment DR. M. R. VYAS: He might feel that his to this motion by our colleague, Shri Krishan bravado is paying him dividends. But I think Kant and I support the main motion moved the only dividend he is getting is that in the by Shri Kamlapati Tripathi, the Minister of history of Parliament he will go down as Railways and the Leader of the House. ''Swamy versus Parliament" and as "Swamy who was expelled by the unanimous vote of Sir, while opposing the amendment to this this House." This is how he is going to get motion, I would like to place before ihis into the records. We have, in the past, records House that this House has got the supreme of people who had challenged the authority to discipline its Members. It is not a Constitution, people who had challenged question of Mr. Subramanian Swamy or Parliament, and they have gone into the anyone on this side or that side. The principle records as Kesa-vananda Bharati versus so should be that this august House must and so or Golaknath versus so and so. We do exercise its supreme power and establish its not know who Kesavananda Bharati was or authority to discipline its Members. It would who Golaknath was the world will also forget have been the best and the happiest day if the what Mr. Subramanian Committee were not to recommend. Mr. Subramanian Swamy's expulsion; it would have been the best day if the charges against him, those complaints and grie-

71 Re expulsion of [RAJYA SABHA] Shri Subramanian Swamy 72 from the House [Shri Sanat Kumar Raha] gressman nor a man of the left, but a typical varices about violating the discipline of independent opportunist. Whenever it is to the House, had been properly and his advantage, he takes the garb of the left adequately met by Mr. Subramanian and again when an opportunity to his Swamy, our colleague; then, this House advantage comes, he takes the garb of ultra- would have been very much happy to right. have a settlement between the parties, Sir, we should not forget the so-called 'total the complainant and the accused. I revolution' under the leadership of Jayaprakash would also like to say that Mr. Swamy Narayan. We should not forget all these things. did not take any opportunity to assert As a multi-class—based organisation, and his position, to defend his case and to Society we have, we sometimes forget our appear personally despite repeated in class relations also. So the problem is there. structions and appeals to him to come How can we have our own direction correct in before the Committee and establish politics? Such things have occurred and will his case. It is also a fact that he occur again in future in the field of politics. So wrote big letters to the Secretary- I think the House should exercise 'its proper General of the House. From those let authority to discipline its Members, ters, we do not find that he categori irrespective of any personality. Now, Krishan cally challenged those charges against Kant and Tyagiji, a Jan Sangh leader and an him, especially charges of his being ex-Congress leader, both are moving an involved in anti-India campaigns amendment to the Motion of the Leader of the abroad as well as inside the country. House. Sir, it is true that science or history is no respector of any person or any so- SHRI OMPRAKASH TYAGI: What about called dignity of a personality. It is CPI and Congress? more so when political science is such SHRI SANAT KUMAR RAHA: You will a cruel thing to human behaviour that have your chance to speak against the CPI. Sir, political people are always self-expos when I go through the main Motion, I do not ed in the field of politics. So it is see whether Krishan Kant's amendment is sub- amusing for me to note that today stantive or not. The Motion says: Krishan Kant, previously a very radi cal speaker in the Congress benches, ..Rajya Sabha accept the findings of the has taken the brief in defence of Jan Committee that the conduct of Shri Swamy is Sangh ___ derogatory to the dignity of the House and its members, and inconsistent with the standards SHRI SARDAR AMJAD ALI (West which the House expects from its members..." Bengal): Say "he was in the Congress". SHRI SANAT KUMAR RAHA: Yes. he There are eight charges against him. But was a leader in the Congress, and sometimes Krishan Kant's amendment refers only to three he was speaking so radically that when I came charges, mainly charge No. 3. It is the opinion to the House first in 1972, I was, to speak the of Krishan Kant "that ground No. (3) in the said truth, very much interested in listening to his report for the expulsion of Shri Subramanian speeches. He spoke radically and was more Swamy does not warrant any action against him ultra-left than the CPI (M). But according to and directs that Shri Subramanian Swamy be Marxism, sometimes ultra-left and ultra-right present in the House on the first day of the next have their common ground of reaction. This session to explain his position regarding has been proved. So I say that science or grounds Nos I and 2 contained in the Report." history is no respecter of anybody. So this This is a tepid defence, rather a lukewarm science in respect of this House, of the Indian defence^ Congress politics or of the Indian left politics, has not respected anybody. Krishan Kant himself has been exposed before this House. Though he was in the Congress, today he is neither a Con- 73 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 74 from the House Instead of expressing any repen-tence, he and asks in defence: Please give me these is putting up a tepid defence. The Committee papers. Which are those papers? He has asked has already decided that these charges are for so many papers such as London Times, of technical nature, they are not substantial Guardian, Economist, New York Times, enough and should not be taken seriously. At Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Denver its seventh meeting held on November 12, Post, India Abroad, Toronto Star and Wash- 1976, the Committee considered and ington Star. All these are interested in the adopted the report. The Committee had work of destabilisation. Not only earlier examined all the materials destabilisation, but they propagate the theory including the documents placed before it. of Dr. Kissinger. What do these papers say? The Committee was of the view that in They say that if Mahatma Gandhi were coming to its conclusion, it was not so much alive, he would have been in the prisons of concerned with the abstract technical and Indira Gandhi. This is what they have said. legal niceties. The Committee was concern- All these media including the Public ed with the work and conduct of Shri Swamy, Broadcasting System of USA are the friends whether he has acted in a manner worthy of of the socalled friends of India Society. So a Member of Rajya Sabha and whether his many organisations have been referred to behaviour was derogatory to the dignity of the by him. But we" need not refer to all those House and its members, and inconsistent with things now. Shri Subramanian Swamy has said the standards which the House expects from "Please give me the papers which have its members. The primary reason for the published my speeches and interviews, etc.". Committee to come to its conclusion to expel He has said that these are the papers with this type of a Member was that he was which he worked. He has worked with politically against India. He was against the these papers which were acting as the enemy of growth and development of the country. He India. Now, it is also clear that Shri acted in collaboration with J.P. inside the Subramanian Swamy took the help of the country and outside with those media which papers abroad to propagate against India. day in and day out were doing anti-India propaganda. These are the charges. Taking all these into consideration, the amendment Sir, this way, J think, our colleague, Shri moved by Shri Krishan Kant is not at all justi- Subramanian Swamy, worked day and night. fied. I would, therefore, ask the House These people also boycotted the House and I to reject his amendment and accept the total think in all the spheres of parliamentary life, report with all its recommendations. in his parliamentary life in particular, he was interested in denigrating the Indian I am happy that the Committee took a parliamentary system by calling it a captive correct view after considering the political Parliament and so on. By saying so, he has aspect. Shri swamy was leading an anti-India denigrated the position of the House and he has campaign inside the country in the company denigrated the position of the Members of this of those people who wanted to destabilise the House and he has denigrated the constituencies system of democracy in India. This is a great which elected the Members of this Parliament. political stigma against any person. I think So, these are the charges against him and I think these reactionary forces should be checked all these technicalities and all these niceties and and should be resisted by the transformative all these abstract things need not be taken into forces which are working for the democratic consideration. Parliamentary life is the public advancement of the country. life of a person and parliamentary life is the life of a political career, career not for the Shri Swamy also took a typical stant sake of careerism, but for the sake of perform- because after propagating so nany things ing certain tasks. We have got some against Jndia, he comes

75 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] shri Subramanian Swamy 76 from the House [Shri Sanat Kumar Raha] Sir, I heard the speech of Mr. Krishan Kant tasks to perform and we have come here to while moving his amendment and, in fact, he serve the people and we have come here as tried to give a political twist to the whole Members of Parliament to achieve certain issue.. He was trying to bring in personalities objects and aims by establishing the and issues which are not directly connected supremacy of Parliament and by establishing with the Motion that has been moved by the the supremacy of the Members of Parliament Leader of the House. Sir, I also went through and so on. So, Sir, steps taken this is only by the minutes and the proceedings of the way of giving instructions to the other Committee as given in the document. And it is Members of Parliament and it is not so much a unanimous report. I think the Committee for the punishment of this Member, it is only reflects the character of the House. The Com- for the future discipline of a country that such mittee has also had the benefit of the presence an act of expulsion becomes necessary. and also the participation by an eminent jurist With these words, Sir, I support the Motion like Daphtaryji. Only one member chose to moved by the Leader of the House and I resign. The reasons are not evident to... support the stand that he should be expelled AN HON. MEMBER; After the report from the House. Thank you. was finalised. SHRI V. B. RAJU (Andhra Pradesh) : Sir, I stand to oppose the amendment and, at the SHRI V. B. RAJU: Whether these reasons same time, support the Motion. are personal reasons, private reasons, political reasons or what they are we do not know. But SHRI SARDAR AMJAD ALI: Mr. Raju, the member should have anticipated, while will you kindly move towards the mike so giving his acceptance to be a member of the that we can hear you properly? committee that it was really an un-pleasent job SHRI, V. B. RAJU: Sir, it is just about to go into the behaviour and conduct of one of twenty-five years ago that in the other House, our colleagues. No doubt, democratic and the then Prime Minister, Shri Jawaharlal parliamentary institutions survive only by Nehru, had to move a similar motion, in the such sacrifices that we make or we are capable famous "Mudgal Case" and, today, Sir, the of making, even to take action against our own Leader of this House, Shri Kamlapati kith and kin if they go actually against the Tripathi, has moved a Motion, accepting the interests of the nation and against democracy. recommendations of the Committee for the expulsion of Shri Subramanian Swamy. So, let me first congratulate the committee for its good work and for bringing about a In the course of a generation, in a period of unanimous report. 25 years, it was, not necessary for the Members of either House to be seized of such Mr. Krishan Kant tried to lay too much a matter. In fact, the Indian Parliament has emphasis and tried to give a political twist to demonstrated through its functioning its health the third charge or whatever the third item is and its vigour and the Members have shown among the charges, namely, about the tremendous wisdom and responsibility. thinking in the Communist ranks and what to Though it is an unpleasant job, I think the do and what not to do. He tried to argue if Committee has done a signal service for the there is an exposition of a particular preservation of the democratic institutions in machination of a particular party and it is not this country by making a recommendation tantamount to anti-Government propaganda which might be considered unpleasanl by or anti-India propaganda. He tried to argue some friends in this House. like a lawyer or advocate in a criminal court. These things actually do not raise the level of the debate and 77 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 78 from the House cannot take us nearer the facts and truth'. Sir, been different. The moment India was taken the very idea which appears to be suggestive out of the British Empire, it collapsed like a can come only from a criminal mind, and not pack of cards and a big part was taken out from any other mind. If he had such from the imperialistic structure. When the knowledge of things, he should have British imperialism collapsed, French Imperia- addressed the Leader of the House and the lism, Dutch Imperialism, Belgian Imperialism Prime Minister or the Chair confidentially and Protuguese Imperialism collapsed. That is that such a thought is being the contribution that the people of India made actually*"generated or entertained or nurtured through their sacrifices. Pandit Jawaharlal in the CPI ranks. And by this he would have Nehru worked so hard. If Mahatma Gandhi done a signal service. It is not necessary that was the father of Indian nationalism and he should go out and do these things. Let us independent India, Jawaharlal Nehru built not be too legalistic, that is to say, try to take democratic India. Panditji constructed brick by shelter under certain supposed omissions and brick and consolidated the gains of all these things. It is not that. We are not independence and gave us a democracy which jurists. It is not a court. Parliament is xhe has taken roots in this country. Now, highest and the supreme political institution. Parliament is the apex institution. It is a symbol of our unity. Anybody who makes any Now, does Mr. Krishan Kant realise this effort te- denigrade its image and reduce its point? I used to listen to his speeches when respect in the minds of the people of this he was sitting on this side. And as Mr. Raha country is doing a lot of disservice to the said, he is so intelligent that he can argue country. Except this Parliament, what is it that both the sides. He is eminently intelligent, actually holds this country together? Elections and .. . to Parliament give scope to the citizens of this AN HON. MEMBER: A good lawyer. country to come into contact with the national aspirations and to articulate their national SHRI V. B. RAJU: Not a lawyer. I do not aspirations. We are all interested in preserving want to insult the legal profession. Mr. Raha the dignity, supremacy and sovereignty of this gave us an inkling that he can argue the Parliament. The other day we passed the extreme left and he can argue the extreme Constitution Amendment Bill. What was the left. I can submit, Sir, before you that in this philosophy behind those amendments? It was country we have rightists and we have the only to educate those,, who refused to leftists. But equally effective there are recognise the fact even though they were opportunists. Now, the country's predicament educated and to remind them that Parliament is because of such persons, these was supreme and sovereign. This is in opportunists. We can understand and we continuation of that. Whether it is know where the leftists are and where the Subramanian Swamy or V. B. Raju, it matters rightists are. In fact, the Congress Party has little. We are all small flies. Sometimes, we its radical approach. It does not say so in an may arrogate too much of importance to apologetic manner. It does not feel shy about ourselves. As Pandit Nehru put it, we are all it. Therefore, the view of Mr. Krishan Kant is small people but others call us great. How not in keeping with the dignity of this House. have we become great? Events were taking India's independence is really a milestone for place. Our names were associated with those humanity. India's Independence has ended events and our names came in history. I do not imperialistic hegemony in this world. If India like that Shri Krishan Kant's name should be had not become free in the manner it did and associated with the expulsion of Subramanian would not have left any impact on other Swamy though he has a brief for him. Let empires, the history would 9ve him aspire for

79 He expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] shri Subramanian Swamy 80 from the House [Shri V. B. Raju] ing what we are doing here. They carry some big event. Let us not reduce or bring the impression with them. Officers are down the level of debate as though we here, Members are here. It is reported in the have some spite against Mr. Swamy. I Press. Of course, in our country, it is not recall an event— I think Shastri Ji televised but in some countries, it is televised might be present that day—in which he also. It is necessary that the citizen, from a was actually interfering in the proceedings child to an old man, should know what of the House like a spoilt child. I told him: exactly this political institution is going to Mr. Subramanian Swamy, you are very do for them because Parliament is the intelligent. I appreciate your intelligence. symbol of unity, Parliament is the only Intelligence is not enough. You should have instrument, I should say, for our growth, for wisdom. I do not want to quote any names. our progress. So. that is what we are One of the leaders of Jana Sangh patted him on worried about and not about anything else. the back saying: You are helping our party Sir, if a Member draws the DA and TA in a because you are creating trouble. Wh;never we fradulent way, does Mr. Krishan Kant used to meet, we were very friendly. There is actually support it or oppose it? Does he no animosity between us. There is no support.. . necessity for that. After all. is the Congress majority affected in any way SHRI BANARSI DAS; Were y™ present by Subramanian Swamy's presence in the here when Mr. Krishan Kant was speaking? House? Can he maVe any impact by his You are trying to malign him ... presence here? It is not the point. Therefore, Sir, lef me come to the Committee's SHRI V. B. RAJU: I am not maligning Report. It is a unanimous Report. We need him. not go into so many details. Why did we SHRI BANARSI DAS: He only said let appoint the Committee? We expect the him be given an opportunity. Committee to go into the details and help us. And the Committee is appointed by us, and SHRI V. B. RAJU: I am not maligning eminent people are there in that him. Mr. Krishan Kant can defend himself. Committee. Let us not do any disservice You need not worry about him. He can to the Committee. defend himself. As a matter of fact, if you can defend yourself, it is much more. My Sir. we should not forget, apart from point is this. We are talking about these politics, that Parliament does not mean the things lightly. sandstone, this architecture. Parliament means the Members' conduct, behaviour, SHRI pM MEHTA: On a point of order. deliberations, discussions and conclusions. Sir. An opportunity was given to him to That is Parliament. We had a very, eminent appear before the Committee. And even poet in Telugu. Not now but some 60 years today Shri Omprakash Tyagi and Mr. ago he said this. Probably, Sir, you might be Krishan Kant could have brought him here knowing this because you come from our and we would have heard him, Sir. neighbouring State, He said: "Desamante mattikaadoyi, SHRI V. B. RAJU: Sir, certain Members get letters from Mr. Subramanian Swamy. Desamante manushuloyi Are they abettors or what are they? You have provoked me and I was not prepared to Desam (nation) means men and nol the land. mention that. Sir, if a small mention ig made So, Parliament does no1 mean the structure we about a Minister*—we have got cases see. We are Parliament. See the children are here—even if a little' suspicion is there, there in the gallery. They are watch- commissions were appointed and they had to go out of their

81 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swaiyuj 82 from the House political life even. Sir, what about which actually has been built on our own election cases? Because of sacrifices. others' mistake , when I lose my election, I am away from political life. Sir, can he draw money? I do not want to lay Such is actually the sanctity of our any other charge. This is enough. I do not want democracy. We shall not belittle to go into any other charges. If it is proved— ourselves. Is it necessary for Mr. and it is proved—that he has fraudulently drawn Subramanian Swamy to go and make T.A. and D.A. by not actually being eligible for some noise in Washington, in New it, what happens? York and in London? Sir, what is that procession? On January 25, 1976, Then, the passport question is there. A notice he along with Dr. Jagjit Singh was issued, which he refused to take, for Chauhan and Charan Singh Panchi— returning the passport. Now, what is the who is Charan Singh Panchi? A Sikh use of telling our youth in the streets who Homeland activist. Does the Jana go wrong sometimes when we behave like that, Sangh support him? Buta Beg, when a person of responsibility belonging to an undesirable Pakistani contact the law-making institution behaves like and Mary Tylor, an extremist Com- that? Can this House accept such a man munist of U.K., and who was deported from who has no respect for these things? He India, staged an anti-India demonstration at the actually wants to behave in a stealthy way. Hyde Park, London. Is it a correct thing? Now what are the arguments from the supporters of Mr. Subramanian Swamy SHRI OM MEHTA: There are and others? Please do not bring in photographs. politics, whether Congress Party or Jan Sangh. My point is this. I always want to SHRI V. B. RAJU; Sir, if I have to narrate all take a fair idea. I do not have any time to the things. I will take a lot more time and that give room for narrow prejudices. I am will not be fair enough because there are many more interested and equally interested as speakers. The question is that whatever anti- other friends are to uphold democratic values India propaganda he has done, there has been a and the opposition has bean criticising the narration before the Committee and the Congress. He says that we are killing evidence has been submitted and the democracy and this is a captive Parliament. Committee , has gone through it and unless it What greater insult do you want except that he is actually disproved, this House cannot take it is condemning it, that it is a captive that it is wrong. That is one thing. Parliament and condemning all of us? And, what about the Congress Party and its Now why did he not appear before the Members? He has said that they are Committee? Why did he not appear? Why this greasing their palms and many people are gimmicks, this so-called stunt being played? Is waiting before their houses. People who this House for playing stunts? I was present read it, what impression will they get here and the Chair was reading a Condolence when you actually want good relations Motion. Suddenly he comes on a point of between Parties? After all, in a democracj' of order. Such our type there are two fundamentals. The a great country. Is it its polity? Can it be built opposition should recognise that it is the on such gimmicks? Is it bravado? And we majority party which rules and that they want to touch the headlines because of our should accept the majority decisions and narrow ambition. I should call it mean similarly the majority party tries to ambition for being caught by the headlines of consult the minority in opposition before the press, public, press outside and gallery and taking any decision and gives them ar we try to destroy the foundations of a polity 83 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 84 from the House [Shri V. B. Raju] opportunity. These are the two fundamentals.

Sir, as Pandi+ji put it, democracy is a sovereignty of discussion. Only through discussion the great and big issues are being resolved here. Sir, I would only say and I would appeal to Members in the opposition to view this from the angle of preserving and maintaining the dignity of the House and not actually bring in party-politics or any extraneous matters. Thank you. Sir.

SHRI OM MEHTA; Sir, on a point of order I would like to say that this is not a decision of the Party. This is the decision of the Committee which was appointed by the House.

SHRI OMPRAKASH TYAGI; AH right, House.

85 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Submmanian Swamy 86 from the House

87 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] shri Sfubramanion Swamy 88 from the House

"Irequest you to inform the Committee that I would like to accept r.heir invitation to be heard in person on a convenient date. I may wish to bring my counsel with me, and therefore I am writing a / separate letter to the Chairman of rthe House to request his permission.

However it will not be possible for me to prepare my comments and views about the allegations of my "objectionable" activities with the very short notice given to me. Cer- tainly it is physically impossible to assemble and document evidence before October 10, 1976, especially because of four principal reasons:" j

'"I would in conclusion state that this is not a reply to the statement of particular sent by you, but a letter to stare that I accept the Committee's invitation to appear in person, and be heard in person on a suitable date. But to make such an appearance productive, I should be allowed adequate time to assemble the evidence and documents."

"I seek your protection as Chairman of SHRI MOHAMMAD YUNUS Rajya Sabha to see that by rule 266 I have SALEEM (Andhra Pradesh); No, no, the uninterrupted access to the Parliament letters should be sent to the Chairman and Building. Since this privilege motion is not to Shri Om Mehta. against Mr. Om Mehta, who is also the Home Minister of State, I have every ap- prehension that he will use the powers of arbitrary arrest to block my free access to the Parliament rendering it impossible for me to be physically present in the House."

89 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subravianian Swamy 90 from the House

91 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 92 from the House

"Of course, if there are any issues raised in the House that you think require my presence, I shall be happy to attend. But you will appreciate that then I would require your protection under Rule 266 to be provided free access to Parliament to physically comply with your intimation."

93 &e expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Submmanian Swamy 94 from the House

DR. V. P. DUTT (Nominated); Sir, on a point of order.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (Shri I.oka-nath Misra): No, no.

DR. V. P. DUTT: Is it a Government Committee's Report or a Parliamentary Comittee's Report?

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI LOKANATH MISRA): Let him finish. Let him not take the plea that there were interruptions and therefore he could not finish.

95 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 96 from the House

"The country can do without the Opposition; they are irrelevant to the history of India."

"Right wing and reactionary forces are very much there. Some of them have gone underground. The fact is that the snake of reaction has. been caught but not killed."

97 -Re expulsion of [15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 98 from the House

99 He expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] shri Subramanian Swamy 100 from the "House

[Mr. Chairman In the Chair] SHRI SARDAR AMJAD ALI: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the Motion moved by the hon. Leader of the House and Minister Pandit Kamlapati Tripathi and at the same time I oppose the amendment to the Motion moved by my other two colleagues, Shri Krishan Kant and Shri Omprakash Tyagi. Sir, at this point of time, while I support' the Motion moved by the Leader of the House, I remember the saying that perhaps political life is a life where you get every time a strange bed partner. I say this because we know that a few sessions earlier we had a rule in this House to the effect that while putting questions a Member's name could be clubbed with the names of other Members and when the question list comes in the printed form we have seen of ten. questions in the names of Shri Chandra Sekhar, Shri Krishan Kant, Shri A. G. Kulkarni, Shri Bhupesh Gupta and Dr. Z. A. Ahmad— all clubbed together. But, as I said, Sir, in politics perhaps pou have gof: to see strange bed fellows and according to the changing times we find that 101 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 102 from the House Mr. Krishan Kant's name is clubbed with that which will have to give permission to a of Mr. O. P. Tyagi who is a member of the Member of this House to come here as long Jana Sangh and it is really strange that my as he continues to be a Mem ber. As long as honourable colleague, Shri Krishan Kant, he is a Member, he is entitled to come here comes up with the anti-CPI stand in order to and I do not understand what sort of a plea defend Shri Subramanian Swamy. It is these people are making. I do not agree with nothing strange. Sir, but it is understandable. them in the sense that so long as I am a Member of this House, this House has no Sir, it is really a unique type of motion right to give me permission to come here which is there in the House today perhaps unless I am expelled or suspended for a since the birth of the Rajya Sabha. It is particular period of time. The House has not surely an unpleasant task that we are doing suspended him nor has it, till this very mo- at the moment and, definitely, Sir, in ment, expelled Shri Subramanian Swamy. his personal life, I believe, Shri Kamla-pati Therefore, the question of allowing him to Tripathi would not have liked to do such a come here and present himself does not arise. thing. But, when the question of the dignity of the House comes up against a very The second question which Mr. Tyagi serious challenge and when the raised was this: "Why not the Attorney- responsibility as a Member of this House General come here and explain the comes heavily on a person, he cannot find legal position?". I would only reply to any alternative but to do the duty which he is this that on this the Constitution is very expected to do in keeping with the clear. Article 88 says that it gives the normal decency and the normal etiquette right to the Attorney-General to come to and under the normal rules to be observed in the floor of Parliament and explain the the House and to which the Members are position in regard to a point of law. Well, if used. It is really unpleasant for us to he feels so, if he feels that the Attorney- adopt a motion against a colleague of ours General will have to come here and explain with whom we had to work for about two the position, then Mr. Subramanian years or so. But then it is not a Question of Swamy—I do not know where his hide-out personal relationship that matters and is>—can make a position to the Attorney- it is not a question of emotional attachment General or to the Leader of the House or to that should weigh with us in this. But it is a the Law Minister or the Prime Minister statin question of parliamentary decency, o that the legal position will have to be parliamentary etiquette, the dignity and explained and, therefore, the Attorney- honour, and the rights and privileges of the General must come to the House and explain Members of this House or the other House the legal position. But he has not asked for which is involved in this now. That is why that also. Then, Sir, there are certain we have to adopt this Motion today. other things which my friends have raised. I am not going in detail into Sir. I have to reply to two or three questions them. But the charges are very serious. which my honourable colleague, Shri Tyagi, raised in support of the amendment. His first Sir, there are many charges levelled question is this—it is in the amendment against Mr. Swamy. First of all, there is a itself: "Why not allow Shri Subramanian charge with regard to the violation of the Swamy to come here and explain his Passport Act. I think the previous speaker conduct?". I do not know what he is saying from our side has not made any observation and I do not understand what these two on that'. Is it fair on the part of a Member of honourable Members are pleading for. Well, Parliament to travel on the basis.of a it is not the House document which he knows has been cancelled or impounded or suspended 103 Re exputei071 of [ RAJYA SABHA ] shri Subramanian Swamy 104 from the House [Shri Sardar Amjad Ali] impounding of the passport or not, for a period of time? If he does that thing, is it will come to the irresistible conclusion fair on his part to do so? The question might that Mr. Swamy had knowledge come in that Mr. Swamy had no knowledge about the impounding or temporary about

Sir, this is the charge about the violation of reentry sitting because of the decision of my Passport Act against Mr. Subramanian party, then is it fair to draw the T.A.? That is Swamy. In my own humble way, I have tried the question. to establish that Mr. Subramanian Swamy had the knowledge that his passport had been temporarily suspended, that he had no right to travel on the basis of that passport and that he was asked to surrender that passport to the nearest Embassy. He did not do that. Is it expected of a Member of Parliament? He had thousand and one ways to come to his own country and to present his case to the Ambassador or High Commissioner or some other officer in the Embassy. He did not do that. He made an appearance in this House on the 10th of August. His intention was something else. If that be so, I believe that the Committee has very rightly come to the conclusion that the charges of violation of the Passport Act are not something which can be SHRI SARDAR AMJAD ALI: This is a overlooked. This sort of behaviour is not very serious matter. It has to be taken note of. regarded to be of the standard a Member of Actually, it has become a habit with some of Parliament. Therefore, it has got to be taken the opposition members that outside they note of by this House. That is why this show to the country and the people that they recommendation is there. are boycotting the sittings of the House. But we find their signatures on the register, is it not unfair 0n their part? Is it not contrary to what they state at the time of their onward The second charg is about T.A. and D.A. journey to Delhi? Subsequently, they fail to My colleague, Mr. Raju, has dealt with it. I attend the sittings. That has got to be settled in would like to touch only one small point. I am order to decide what the demeanour of a not going into the question as to whether the Member of Parliament should be. Therefore, signatures were forged or not. But it is a fact Sir, from this point of vie'w, in my view, the that Mr. Subramanian Swamy in his letter to Committee has rightly come to the conclusion Mr. Ganguly or to you or to some officer of that without attending the Session, without the Rajya Sabha Secretariat, has admitted that attending the sittings, if any Member draws it was his party which had taken the decision TA or DA, it is unbecoming of a Member of to boycott that session. It is also a fact that he this House. Therefore, that has got to be taken has drawn T.A. and D.A. for the 93rd and into consideration and a decision will have to 97th Session. During the 97th Session, four be arrived at. days are in question. Why do you take D.A.? Why do you draw T.A.? I am not disputing Sir, the third charge, according to my that any Member, even though he may not colleague, Shri Krishan Kant, does not attend the House, is entitled to draw his D.A. warrant the expulsion of a Member. Mr. Let me deal with the matter of T.A.? What do chairman, sir, the day I entered the House, I we write in our T.A. bill? We write "To attend was very young and had an idea that here are the parliamentary sitting." If I do not attend the chosen few from amongst the 600 million the parlia- people of this country who are gems, who are the wisest, who are intelligent, honest, sincere and everything, an above all their patriotism cannot be challenged. But the charge 107 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] shri Subramanian Stoamy 108 from the House [Shri Sardar Amjad Ali] against Mr. country is an institution. Therefore, it Swamy as has been placed by the may be that you have some sort of Parliamentary Affairs Minister before the grievance or grouse against a particular Committee, is really surprising. Sir, I do person but you cannot denigrate the not know if any other individual outside post of Prime Minister the way in which this House, any ordinary citizen of this Mr. Swamy, our colleague in the country had taken such a stand which House has denigrated in London in, a Mr. Swamy had taken in countries abroad, television interview. He says; Mrs. Mr. Om Mehta's Department would Gandhi had practically liquidated nave framed charges of treason against parliamentary democracy and now she him or not. But, probably, because we is ruling autocratically after having are some s°rt of supernatural elements, assumed all powers. 1 do not know, Sir, we are some kind of superhuman beings what to reply. I believe it is the known by the name of Members of country which will give a reply as to Parliament, and allowed to make this whether the Prime Minister of this sort of attack against our own country has gone autocratic. The motherland in countries uoroad. Is it people, I believe, will reply to those fair on the part of a Member of who are trying to denigrate ithe Parliament, in league with a person who office of the Prime Minister, the has been expelled from the country institution of Prime Minister. They because of her anti-India activities, to will actually be replied to in the near demonstrate against the country on a future by the people of this country. foreign soil? Then, Sir, 1 would say that these are the charges against Shri Swamy which we SHRI OMPRAKASH TYAGI; It is not have) to take into consideration in coming against the country. It is against ihe to a conclusion as to whether this sort of Government. conduct is unbecoming of a Mem- ' ber of Parliament and whether this Parliament SHRI SARDAR AMJAD ALI: It is expects any of its Members t0 behave in anti-India demonstration and not anti- this fashion whether inside the House Government demonstration. I do not or outside the House and whether inside know whether by anti-India we mean anti- the country or outside the country. Government. Government may come and go but India remains. Well, if anybody, on a foreign soil takes along Now, Sir, Mr. Swamy has made certain with him some people who have been other allegations against the Parliamentary expelled for their anti-national activities institution and against the Members of and joins hands with him and comes out Parliament and others. Now, let us go on with a demonstration, how do you view it? searching as to whether any insinuation or Is it~the role of a Member of Parliament? any type, of comment which is derogatory May I very humbly ask my hon. friend, to Parliament and Parliamentary ~"insti- Shri Tyagi, one thing? In your personal tutions should be treated as a misde- thinking, in your own private thinking, do meanour on the part of a Member or is it a you indulge in this sort of activities? breach of privilege committed by a I do not know whether vou agree with it or Member. Here, Sir, I would like t0 quote not. , Well, any Member of Parliament has from Erskine May's Parliamentary every right to criticise Mr. Om Mehta or Practice, whejre May says at page 117, of for that matter Shrimati Indira Gandhi. the 17th Edition: "In 1701 the House of If they want to criticise anybody, ?lse, let Commons resolved that to print or publish them do it. But, Sir, earlier also I have any books or libels reflecting on the pro- taken this stand in this House and today ceedings of the House is a high violation also while participating in this debate I of the rights and privileges of the House uphold that stand that the post °* Prime and indignities offered bf Minister of this 109 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Submmanian Swamy 110 from the House fore Houses by words spoken or re- House, and even though the occasion ig cognised to be reflecting on its the first of its kind, this House should character or proceedings have been unanimously join the Leadei of the constantly punished by both 'the Lords House in accepting the Motion that he and Commons upon the principle that has moved. such acts tend to obstruct the Houses in the performance of fh'elr functions by Thank you, Sir. 4 p. diminishing the respect due to them." Now, as far as our Constitution is concerned, the rights and privileges of this House or the other House have got to be established, in a way, according to the provisions of article 105. Following the rights and privileges of the House ^of Commons and the House of Lords which are also the rights and privileges of this House, if there is a libellous matter printed or spoken, it should be regarded as a breach of privilege of the House. Now, Sir. what did Mr. Swamy do in order to follow this principle? Mr. Swamy in the Satya-wani "Voice of Truth", dated the 12th June, 1976, a Friends of India Society publication, in an article "Resistance Growing to Mrs. Gandhi" said; "In the last three months the law passed by our captive Parliament with only 33 per cent of the Members of Parliament attending highlights the crisis". This Parliament in the estimation of a Member of this House is a captive Parliament. Is it not an indignity, is it not an insult to the whole House or to the individual Members here, according to your rights and privileges, as enshrined in the Constitution and as enshrined in the various practices and procedures in the Parliamentary set-up of the House of Commons and the House of Lords? If that be so, Sir, it is a serious thing and that has got to be taken into consideration for recommending the expulsion of such a Member who does not have any respect for the House, for the Parliamentary institutions, for the institution of the Prime Minister of the country and who denigrates the country itself in the estimation of foreigners abroad, If this is so, it is a serious thing and, although it is an unpleasant job, I believe, Sir, that in order to maintain the dignity and honour of this august

111 Re expulsion oj [ RAJYA SABHA ] shri Subramanian Swarny 112 from the House

MR. CHAIRMAN: Why don't you keep quite? SHRI KAMESHWAR SINGH: They say that they are| not allowed to speak. MR. CHAIRMAN: He is speaking in low tone; he is allowed to speak. I am here. Why are you disturbing unnecessarily? Why are you doing it? Let him speak

113 Re expulsion of [15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramaman Swamy 114 from the House

"That Country can do without the Opposition. They are irrelevant to the history of India."

"Every kind of Opposition criticism is a threat to the Government. And by implication to the nation, this is the type 0f mind which leads to totalitarian regimes."

115 Re expulsion of [RAJYA SABHA ] shri Subramanian Swamy 1l6 from the House

"The Chairman informed the Committee that Shri Bhanu Pratap Singh vide his letter dated £tth Nov- ember addressed to the Rajya Sabha, has resigned his membership of the Committee with effect from the l°th November. He also placed before the Committee a letter...."

"Mr. Mehta's claim that a letter dated April 8, 1976 was sent to my "Washington Address" is amusing. I have no "Washington address" and I was not in Washington (on April 8 or thereafter)." He has also said: 117 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 118 from the House

"I was abroad, the Government had in its knowledge three addresses .notified by me: (1) My brother-in-law's address abroad, (2) My New Delhi residential address, (3) Rajya Sabha."

119 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 120 from the House

121 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 122 from the House

"The Committee came to the con- clusion that his conduct is derogatory to the dignity of the House, its Members and inconsistent with the stadnards which the House is entitled to expect of its Members, and Mr. Swamy has no right to continue as a Member of the House."

123 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Steamy 124 from the House

125 fle expulsion of [15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Svoamy 126 from the House

The will to resist the temptations has gradually eroded especially because of Mrs. Gandhi's preference for mediocre but loyal persons. Consequently, most of her party M.Ps. have become vulnerable and are willing to put up with anything as long as they enjoy power. .

127 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 128 from the House

SHRI VISWANATHA MENON (Kerala); Sir, I approach ffiis problem from a political point of view. So far as the sanctity of parliamentary democracy and other things are concerned, I have no objection to all those things. But the double standard that has been adopted about MPs is a problem which is to be considered.

Sir, about the Tulmohan Ram case, it was said that it is pending. The Home Minister, Mr. Om Mehta, has said...

SHRI SARDAR AMJAD ALI: Sir, on a point of order. SHRI VISHWANATHA MENON: No. You need not say anything. Mr. Om Mehta has already mentioned that.

SHRI SARDAR AMJAD ALI: Sir, my point is this; I do not want to counter what the honourable Member from the Opposition says. But * want to know whether it is fair to mention the name of a Member of the other House when it is the categorical opinion and when it is also mentioned in the Rules that a Member who belongs to the other House cannot be mentioned here unless the Member, willing to take his name, takes the permission of the Speaker. I do not want to shield anybody. But, Sir, repeatedly the name of a person is mentioned here who is not a Member here. I want protection for that Member, Sir. SHRI VISWANATHA MENON: All right. I will not mention that name. But I will say. a person who belongs to the other House

SARDAR AMJAD ALI: He is still a Member. 129 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 130 from the House SHRI VISWANATHA MENON: Sir, iminal SHRI VISWANATHA MENON: Mr. action has been taken against him and when Amjad Ali, you are making all allegations his name was mention-ed; the honourable which cannot be taken to a court of law. You Minister of State in the Ministry of Home can arrest everybody under the MISA. But, Affairs, got up and said: "His case is pending tomorrow, Mr. Amjad Ali can be arrested in a court and so, you cannot say anything.'' because of the anti-Siddhartha Shankar Ray May I ask the honourable Minister who is group. You can be arrested. Don't think that championing his case: What is the case about you are safe. All those persons as I said on a Mr. Subramanian Swamy? Is there a case previous occasion, who had voted for Mr. pending against him with regard to his Ram Dhan, must be be careful. You all be passport? Is there a case pending against him careful. This is what is actually happening in about his so-called anti-national activities? the country. Can you challenge it? Now I am Why this double standard? If you want to fight speaking here. I am not sure; tomorrow, I may it politically, fight it politically. But you want be in the Tihar jail. This is the position in the to depend to certain rules and try to find somc country and when somebody goes out and excuses. I thought Mr. Amjad Ali would rise says this, is it anti-national? Nothing. We to the occasion and answer me politically. have not said anything against India. We are What is the situation in the country, Sir, now? Indians and we want this misrule of Mrs. We eannot utter anything in this country. Indira Gandhi's Government to be stopped. When we say anything, it will become anti- We can say it here and we must have the right national. We are not against India and we are to say it outside and we must have the right to not against the good policies of the say it abroad. You are having this anti- Government also. But when we criticise the national constitutional amendment also. What Government, when we criticise the policies of things are you going to do, I do not know. the Congress Party, you call us anti-national and you put us in jail because you have got the Now, the Congress is not evein a MISA with you. Even with regard to your democratic party. You have postpon own party members, how many of them are ed your own organizational elections. safe? If you say something, you will also be in You have postponed the elections jn jail- Is it not happening in West Bengal now? this country. Then, autocratic rule has come. We have got every right to say SHRI BANARSI DAS: In Gujarat also. that ____ SHRI VISWANATHA MENON: What SHRI MOHAMMAD YUNUS happened in Bengal? Some MLAs. some SALEEM; Please talk of your own Congress MLAs, are in jail under MISA and party ------you are safe because of Mr. Siddhartha (Interruptions). Shankar Ray.... (Interruptions). SHRI VISWANATHA MENON; I will come to that. SHRI SARDAR AMJAD ALI: That our party affair ------Mr. Subramanian Swamy attacked the Congress Government in his speech Press [Interruptions). censorship has been brought in this country. AN HON. MEMBER: Mr. Chandra He said all these things. What is wrong in Shekhar, Mr. Dharia ______that? When 1 opposed the Resolotion brought by Mr. Om Mehta, I said one thing: To cover (Interruptions). up his failure as Home Minister he has 983 RS—5 brought this Resolution as Parliamentary Affairs Minister. Now, Mr. Om Mehta gets a consolation prize. After 131 Re expulsion of [RAJYASABHA] Shri Subramanian Swamy 132 from the House LShri Viswanatha Menonj not, the Chairman will decide. Sir, the point is that I want to impress upon this particular... some time, with your majority you will pass (Interruptions). that Resolution and he will get consolation that although be could not arrest Mr. MR. CHAIRMAN: Please don't reply-to Subramanian Swamy he will get a chance to them. expel him from this House. SHRI VISWANATHA MENON: We have Four days' D.A. Mr. "Swamy has claimed. got our own differences of opinion. But He will explain that. Why didn't you hear according to us, repression is not the answer him? About the passport case, let the court for an ideology. Ideology has to be fought decide his Parliamentary career. You are not with ideology, not by repression—by prepared for all these things. You want to expelling a Member. By doing that you are finish. I am not surprised, because when the not going to finish an ideology. That ideology capitalists lose their case, when the capitalists will go underground. Mr. Om Mehta could want to control the country, they will even not arrest him. So he is expelling him. Is it finish the Parliamentary system. That is what not the fact? you are doing. MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Menon, it is not A big allegation has been put in the paper correct. It is the H^use which has to decide about the CPI trying to kill Indira Gandhi. whether to expel him or not. It is not Mr. Om Now, Mr. Subramanian Swamy may have or Mehta. You must know that. may not have said that. J am not questioning SHRI VISWANATHA MENON; My that. But what is wrong in that? So many humble submission is that not a single wrong things were propagated in socialist Congressman is going to vote against that. countries about my party— on the television, (Interruptions) When you come to brasstacks, in speeches and so on—calling the CPM as the party which controls the Government reactionary, anti-revolutionary, and what are decides. Is it not a fact? That is why, when i names they were calling... (Interruptions). If speak about Mr. Om Mehta, please don't take Mr. Subramanian Swamy has said something that it is personal. When I say Om Mehta, it about the CPI, why so much vendetta? CPI is means the Government because he is the not India. Indira is not India. Mr. Borooah Home Minister. may say that India is Indira or Indira is India. But we do not consider this like that... Coming to the other thing, I have only one (Interruptions) point which I want to stress. Here, in this country, the opposition . has to function. I have not much time. Please hear me. According to Congress President Borooah, the MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude. opposition has become irrelevant. Is this the SHRI VISWANATHA MENON: I have attitude-to be taken by a Congress President? told you one fact that in this particular issue You want democracy in this country. You you are tackling it on a political basis, always say that yours is the grea I test political vendetta against a Member. I do not democracy in the world. Agreed. But agree with Mr. Swamy's political ideology. democracy means the role of the opposition. Our party, the Communist Party (Marxist), is You are not giving us any-chance to go and opposed to many of the policies of the Jana propagate our opinion. (Interruptions) Mr. Sangh and R'.S.S. We fight... Kesri, you have been quoted here by Mr Krishan Kant. I do not want to quote you. SHRI MOHAMMAD YUNUS SA-LEEM: These are beside the point. (Interruptions). My point is that we look at this issue from a political point of view Can the SHRI VISWANATHA MENON: Whether opposition function in this country? Can the these are beside the point, or opposition oppose the party in power? That is the question. M. Swamy has not attacked India He has not said anything against India. 133 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 134 from the House

He has attacked the Indian Government. Government is run by a political party and we do not consider India as Indira or Indira as India. I want to make it clear. Therefore, on this particular issue, my party is supporting the amendment moved by Mr. Krishan Kant. Thank you, Sir.

135 Re ezPufc of [ RAJYA SABHA] shri Subramanian Swamy 136 from the House

137 Re expulsion of [15 NOV.1976] Shri Subramanian Swamy 138 from the House

139 139 Re expulsion Re expulsion of of [RAJYASABHA] ShriSuoramanianSuamy 140 from the House

[Shri Jagjit Singh Anand] note of dissent, I would write a letter that I coming to the House. He was going towards would be going to such and such a place and the Register. I did not recognise him for would not be able to attend the meeting for some time because his hair was the rest of the day, and I would give my extraordinarily short-cropped and I, having been opinion on the matter before that Committee. underground so many tjmes, immediately In that very letter, I would indicate my realised that this man had done so in order to difference. But, Mr. Bhanu Pratap Singh ran change Lis visage. Then I came to the House away because he was pressurised by others and sat here. When your honour came here, I and he did not give a note of dissent, because stood up in reverence to you. And while you he had no case. were making an obituary reference and while we all were remembering Mr. Niranjan SHRI OMPRAKASH TYAGI: Have yoti Singh Talib, Mr. Swamy came—this is his seen that letter? seat— and took his seat, just there, he did not even come here, he did not even come to his SHRI JAGJIT SINGH ANAND: You were seat, and from there he shouted "On a point given the opportunity to quote; he was also of order". I pointed out to him, whispering given the opportunity to quote. Sir, when Mr. loudly, that an obituary reference was Tyagi was speaking, he was asked by Mr. being made anPakistan, and afterwards, "I think theie is every possibility that a neither the keys nor Mr. Chauhan were to be situation like Gujarat may be created in found. They completely disappeared from .the Delhi, so what I see in the future is more scene. The sec?nd time when he appeared and more mobilisation by the people until was, when the emergency was declared. I was the government just gets suffocated by it." in Britain then. He went to the BBC. They never allowed me to go to their establishment, Now, Sir, they planned to suffocate the though- I was a Member of Parliament there, Government. They planned to surround the the only Member of Parliament from India. house of the Prime Minister. They called They went to Britain and said In the BBC that upon the Military and the Police to revolt this Indira Government will be thrown out if and then, this has proved to be a damn the Americans and the Britishers stopped squib and a whimper. He could. not stage a giving aid Gujarat in Bihar. He and his leader had to run away. Now, he is 143 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 144 from the House I Shri Jagjit Singh AnandJ good company. Shri Subramania-ri Swamy not only accused us, that the CPI wanted to trying to stage a Gujarat in Washington assassinate Prime Minister. When Shri through the Washington Star. See the great Swamy repeated the filthy line once again, he warrior. He is trying to stage a Gujarat and ad held the Pmr.,5 Minister responsible for the create suffocation here. That is not the end of murder of Shri L. N. Mishra. the late Railway it. Much is being made of at what stage he Minister. There is-a tactics in this method of abscondea, where did he go and so on. He is functioning. You pilloried the Father of the on record as having said this: Nation. You said 'He is a traitor; he is trying "A member of India's upper house of to give covering to the traitors of the country, Parliament, Swamy, said a warrant is out for the Muslims'. You create an atmosphere of his arrest. He has been underground since hatred and then you shoot the Father of the June, when police phoned him at 4.30 a.m., Nation. Similarly, first of all, you tried to run told him they were coming to arrest him and down Shri L. N. Mishra that he is corrupt, he suggested 'it would be hotter if you're not is this and that Then, you got him murdered. home'. The courtesy was the result of his Bu* you openly charge in the Motherland and work in Parliament on behalf of police you repeat the same charge for months forces." together after the death of Mr. L. N. Mishra, It has been established that Mr. L. N Mishra died almost a pauper. Mr. L. N. Mishra was First of all, he was not here on the 26'th of not a corrupt man But this charge is repeated June, 1975. He made out a false story to for months together after his death Therefore, demoralise the Police forces, to continue the when Shri Swamy gays that the CPI was out act of subversion, that the Police obliged him to assassinate the Prime Minister, the Prime because he fought for the Police in this House. Minister knows better. The Prime Minister has Sir, he and I came together to this House in repeatedly pointed out which ore the hands 1974. There was not one singly word in his directed against her. Then, Sir, because there entire speeches in Parliament which was is Mot much time I will only take care of Shri spoken in defence of the Police. This is a Vishwanatha Menon. The great Shri white lie and this is the sort of destructive Viswanatha Menon is on record saying that tactics which they tried to apply here and ideology should be fought by ideology. Yes, badly failed. this is how they are fighting ideology by My worthy friend, Mr. Kriahan Kant, is not ideology by joining the band wagon of J.P., by here. He started his inuendo against Mr, throwing away the red flag, and still they Bhupesh Gupta by saying that he got included claim to be Communists. This is the way they ground No. (3). He was supported in this by fight Ideology by defending the anti-national Mr. Tyagi. Why do they bring in political activities of these reactionary forces and factors. They bring in because they do not fascist forces Sir, I have been abroad many a have a case. They can rely only on destructive time. When you are abroad there is a sense of tactics. Shri Subramanian Swamy made a responsibility, there is a sense of duty to the statement that the OPI wanted to assassinate nation, there is a sen3e of image of the the Prime Minister. We know how a thief, country. If a person when he is being pursued and given a hot cannot perceive that sense, he does chase, in order to confuse the chasers, cries not deserve to go abroad. I can only 'thief and points to another person. This game say that these CPM friends have was being played by Shri Subramanian Swamy We are in 145 Ke expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 146 from the House joined hands to defend the civil liberties of ihis side, I feel like pointing out or.iy one the reactionary and fascist forces ,and still fact. Ihe issue before the House is straight and they talk of fighting ideology. What have simple. The Committee has placed before us they done to tight ideology, in what way have the report in which there are three charges. they done it? The first charge is that Shri Subramanian Swamy has joined hands with anti-Indian In the end, 1 would say that the name of forces in other countries. The second is that Shri Bhupesh Gupta was brought W, Shri he, being a Member of Parliament, a Bhupesh Gupta is one of the most senior responsible person, has knowingly u-jed a members of the House. 1 would not be wrong passport which was not valid. Then. he has in saying that probably he has the longest drawn T.A. and D.A when he did not attend record of being the Member of this House. He the House. These are simple facts. Sir, so is the leader of the largest Opposition group in many hon. Members have already said that the House. If there is any Committee the Committee was composed of senior constituted, I must say, the Government acted members of this Parliament, where Mr. properly in appointing Members on the Daghtary was a member, Mr. Bhupesn Gupta Committee. In this case too, the Committee was a member. This Committee has which was. constituted was high powered, composed of the besl names of this House. It unanimously passed this report. Mr. Bhanu represented all elements, and therefore, Shri Pratap Singh resigned because he wanted to Daphtary's name was there, Shri Bhupesh find a way out. He could not sa"y 'no' to the Gupta's name was there and the names of conclusions of the Committee. He had no eminent legal luminaries from those benches basis, but he did not want to sign the Report. were there. Therefore, the best way he discovered was to resign. Now in the same position are many of Therefore, I or:]y wish to submit that Shri ihe Opposition friends, who spoke at length. Swamy has no case. These gentlemen have who brought in politics into the discussion, no case. If Shri Swamy wanted to come to the because on the face of it, taking the facts into House and make the representation, there consideration, taking the country into were ample chances for him. But he has consideration, they cannot counter them. shown himself to be a person who indulges in Therefore, Mr. Viswanatha Mencn, Mr. anti-national activities abroad and anti- Krishan Kant and Mr. Tyagi brought in the country activities all round. I am very sorry, I political factors into consideration. Sir, I must have known him intimately.* He was sitting say that all the political factors which they beside me here. He is a brilliant man but have brought into consideration are fallen in wrong hands, fallen in bad company. absolutely irrelevant to the issue today. The Under the present circumstances, to retain first factor is that they said, "He has not him with all his conduct will be an aspersion indulged in anti-Indian activities. His en oarliamentary democracy itself, will he utterances are only anti-Government." Sir, let doing a disservice to Parliament it pelf. us examine. What were the forces that Therefore, T associate my3elf with the welcomed Mr. Subramanian Swamy. the Motion moved by Shri Kamlapati Tripathi. forces that gave him facilities and sumptuous hospitality in other countries? Were they the SHRI R. NARASIMHA REDDY fAndhra sympathisers of the Jana Sangh? Had they Pradesh): Mr. Chairman, Sir, having heard so any common purpose with the Jana Sangh? roany speeches from the Oppotftlon rifle and They were all anti-Indian force* also from 147 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 148 from the House [Shri R. Narasimna Keaayj You know the why, a Member of Parliament, when / he history of all those forces. Why did they knows that his passport is impounded, welcome him? Why did they give him all these using an impounded passport is benea-.h sumptuous facilities? To use Mr. Subramanian the dignity of an honourable Member of Swamy in their nefarious anti-Indian, Parliament. Then, without attending the House, knowing fully well that he has not imperialist game, and Mr. Subramanian attended the House, he draws TA and DA. Swamy, the Professor, with all his intelligence To (his low extent :f we descend, what let himself become a tool in the hands of anti- becomes of the dignity of Parliament? Indian forces. That is the main charge. He became a tool in their hands—with what Therefore, Sir, these are the three simple consideration We do net know—and played issues on which we have to decide, their game. witnout bringing in the political issues Sir, I ask the hon. Members of the into consideration—and the Committee Opposition: When he said "captive wisely have not gone into the political Parliament", do you mean to say that this aspect of them at all. insinuation was not against this august House, Parliament? Is it a criticism against the Every body has got right to speak, but Government? Is it not a criticism against you what he has done, whether it becomes a and me, is it not a criticism against the entire Member of Parliament, whether it is in House that this is a "captive Parliament"? And tune with the dignity of the House is the can this Parliament tolerate such statements? consideration. Sir, it is not in tune with So, the issue before this House is what Mr. the dignity of the House and it is very Subramanian Swamy has done and whether it right that this Motion has been moved by is in consonance with the dignity and decorum the Leader of the House. This action of the House or not. If it is in consonance, we should be taken if the sovereign do not take action but if we honestly feel that it Parliament's dignity has to be maintained. derogates, it degrades, it takes away the dignity I support the Motion. and status of this House—Parliament —and as a Member of this honour*-able House he MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Yunus Saleem. should not have said it, then we must take Please be brief. against him. (Time-beV. rings) SHRI MOHAMMAD YUNUS SAL- Sir, when he says "captive Parliament", EEM: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support when he speaks derogatdrily about the the Motion which has been moved by the Members—ycu will know what he has said if hon. Leader of the House. you read the whole thing. Even if an ordinary person who visits foreign countries utters these Sir, much has been said for and against sentences, it is derogatory. But an honourable the merits of the issue. 1 would take the Member of Parliament utters these things. We, time of this house only to highlight one or Members of Parliament do not only have two important legal aspects which, to my weighty privileges. In consonance with the mind, have not received due consideration weighty privileges, as a. - balance against these of the hon. Members of the House. Sir, in weighty privileges, we have weighty duties and the proceedings of the Committee, dated weighty responsibilities a^o. That is the 2nd September, I find a paragraph—it is paragraph No. 5—wherein it has been observed: "That the Rules of Procedure of the Rajya Sabha that were followed by Select Committees might 149 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 150 from the House generally be observed in the matter of tary-General, that on these issues the matter deliberations of the Committee." So, Sir> the has been referred to the Committee. Sir, it is procedure which was adopted in holding this now a simple question. Whether this House inquiry by the Committee was that of a Select has got the power, the jurisdiction, to hold an Committee. When a report by a Select in-quiry regarding the conduct of a Member; Committee is received in the House for or not. If 'yes', then this House by a resolution discussion, I very respectfully submit, the of this House, rightly referred this matter to a scope of the debate is very limited. Sir, I read Committee. The Committee, on its part, held out Rule 94 of the Rules of Procedure: an inquiry, gave several opportunities to Shri Subramanian Swamy to appear before the "94. The debate on a motion that the Bill as Committee—several letters were addressed to reported by the Select Committee of the him—but he did not care to appear before it. Council, or the Joint Committee of the What is the alternative left to the Committee? Houses, as the case may be, be taken into con- Either to postpone the proceeding, or to sideration shall be confined to consideration of proceed with the evidence. Whatever the report of the Committee and the matters evidence was made available to the referred to in that report or any alternative sug- Committee, was considered. According to the gestions consistent with the princi-' pies of Evidence Act, if an evidence which could be the Bill." produced by a party in support of his case is not produced, the presumption is that, had it been produced, it would have gone against Sir, what I suggest before this "honourable him. House is that the report of the Committee is before the House, so the scope of the debate should be limited to discuss as to whether the Certain charges were made and reference of recommendation of the Committee is certain press reports and documentary supported by some evidence or not. Sir, the evidence was given in the letter addressed to law is well settled. This proceeding is in a Mr. Subramanian Swamy by the Secretary- way quasi-judicial proceeding. Therefore, General. Sir, it was very easy for Mr. Subra- certain legal principles have got to be manian Swamy to produce the papers and say: followed. Even the Supreme Court and the "This is wrong. I have not said it. I have Privy Council" are unanimous on this issue, contradicted these reports appearing in that when any tribunal or any court holds an foreign papers." Sir, he has not chosen to do inquiry, the question whether the evidence so. Therefore, what I submit is that the legal before that court or tribunal was sufficient or presumption is against him. So, whatever not to come to that particular conclusion, is report has been submitted by the Select not within the jurisdiction of the appellate Committee, is to be considered, and their is no court to interfere in the finding of the low.er ground whatsoever to differ from that report. court. Sir. nobody has said in this House that No case has been made out by any honourable there was no evidence at all to support the Member of the Opposition saying that there recommendation of the Committee, was no evidence to prove the charges. Shri insufficiency of the evidence. I have gone Swamy's passport war impounded. Now, the through the entire proceedings. I have read the moment this was brought to Shri Subramanian letters addressed by Mr. Subramanian Swamy Swamy's notice, he need not have waited, he to the Committee. Sir. nowhere has he denied should have immediately gone to the High the charges which were communicated to him Commissioner or the Ambas-sader and asked through the letter of the Secre- that "I hear from diffe-I rent sources that my passport has been 151 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 152 from the House [Shri Mohammad Yunus SaleemJ of the House (qj; of conduct mate, coming the character of an officer and a gentleman (r); impounded". He could talk to the External and of con tempts, libels and other offences Affairs Minister on trunk telephone. Wifiin committed against the House itself three minutes the telephone is available from U.K. and U.S.A. He could contact the Home Minister and could verify whether the passport was impounded or not. He knew it Realising the TA/DA without aUe, ing the House is tantamount to a misappropriation of was impounded, and in spite of that, he public funds, money which he is not entitled misused it. to receive; he has fraudulently received it. It is a penal offence. One could be prosecuted Regarding the realisation of TA/DA, this is and sentenced to imprisionment for such a a very serious matter. In the Lobby, a register charge under the Penal Code is maintained. When we come, we are expected to sign it in order to show that we are present. I have gone through the In view of this, It Is but proper that this proceedings. The Committee was so much House may unanimously agree and adopt the careful about it. Either the signatures were Report of the Committee signed by him or somebody else signed on his behalf. The signatures were sent to the Examiner of Questioned Documents to find out whether the admitted signatures tallied Sir, one point I would like to make before I sit with the disputed ones. The report is that they down. It has been repeatedly said by the are false signatures. Members of the Opposition that since Mr. Om Mehta has moved the Resolution asking this* House to hold an Inquiry into the In the Report of the Committee reference conduct of Mr. Subramanian Swamy, he to May has been made. 1 will read out only a should not have been a member of the few lines from May to add to it. Committee because he will be a judge himself. Their objection is misconceived. I base "The purpose of expulsion is not so much my contention in this way. It is the disciplinary as remedial, not so much to privilege of a Member of this House to punisH Members as to rid the House of lodge a complaint against the conduct persons who are unfit for membership. It may of another Member before this house. justly be regarded as an example of the Suppose I lodge a complaint Houses' power to regulate its 'own against one of my colleagues a constitution. But it is more convenient to treat Member and the matter is placed before it among the methods of the punishment at the House. Shall I walk out? Will I riot the disposal of the House. be remitted to take part in the deliberations. Can't I excercise my right of voting simply "Members have been, expelled as being in because I am the complainant? It is not the open rebellion (g): as having been guilty of way; It is not thai the complainant becomes forgery (h); of perjury (i); of frauds and a judge. It is a question of the integrity, breaches of trust (k); of misappropriation of prestige and decorum 0f this House. Every public money CI); of conspiracy to defraud Member is entitled to complain against (m); of fraudulent conversion of property (a); the conduct of another Member, sit here of corruption in the administration of justice and convince the other Members by his (o), or in public offices (p); or in the deliberations and arguments that whatever execution of their duties as Members complaint has been lodged against that Member is justified. He can take part in the deliberations. The allegation. 153 Re expulsion of [15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 154 from the House that because he is the complainant and therefore he cannot sit in that Com- mittee, is misconceived.

Therefore, I support the Report of the Committee and request that it should be adopted unanimously. 155 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 156 from the House

157 fte expulsion of [15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 158 from the House

159 Re expulsion of [ RAJYA SABHA ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 160 from the House

161 Re expulsion of [ 15 NOV. 1976 ] Shri Subramanian Swamy 162 from the House Shri Subramanian Swamy be expelled from the House.' substitute the following;

'is of the opinion that ground No. (3) in the said report for the expulsion of Shri Subramanian Swamy does not warrant any action against him and directs that Shri Subramanian' Swamy be present in the House on the first day of the next session to explain his position regarding grounds Nos. 1 and 2 contained in the Report.' "

The Motion was negatived. SHRI KRISHAN KANT: Sir, we walk out as a protest.

(At this stage, some hon. Members left the Chamber), SHRI OM MEHTA: Sir, you must note that after the amendment has been voted, they have followed Mr. Subramanian Swamy. MR. CHAIRMAN: I shall put the motion to vote. The question is: "This House, having considered the report of the Committee appointed in pursuance of the Motion adopted by it at its sitting held on September 2, 1976, to investigate the conduct and activities of Shri Subramanian' Swamy, Member, Rajya Sabha, accepts tne findings of the Committee that the conduct of Shri Swamy is derogatory to the dignity of the House and its members, and inconsistent with the standards which the House expects from its members and resolves that Shri MR. CHAIRMAN: I shall put the Subramaniaa Swamy be expelled from the amendment of Shri Krishan Kant and Shri O. House." P. Tyagi to vote. The motion was adopted. The question ist SHRI OM MKHiTA: Adopted unani- In the Motion in line 5—9— for the words mously. 'accepts the findings of the Committee that MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. the conduct of Shri Swamy is derogatory to the dignity of the House and its members, and inconsistent with the standards which the House expects from its members and resolves that 983 RS—6