Professor Dame Julia Higgins Interviewed by Dr Thomas Lean
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NATIONAL LIFE STORIES AN ORAL HISTORY OF BRITISH SCIENCE Professor Dame Julia Higgins Interviewed by Dr Thomas Lean C1379/55 © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk IMPORTANT This interview and transcript is accessible via http://sounds.bl.uk . © The British Library. Please refer to the Oral History curators at the British Library prior to any publication or broadcast from this document. Oral History The British Library 96 Euston Road London NW1 2DB United Kingdom +44 (0)20 7412 7404 [email protected] Every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of this transcript, however no transcript is an exact translation of the spoken word, and this document is intended to be a guide to the original recording, not replace it. Should you find any errors please inform the Oral History curators. © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk The British Library National Life Stories Interview Summary Sheet Title Page Ref no: C1379/55 Collection title: An Oral History of British Science Interviewee’s Higgins Title: Professor Dame surname: Interviewee’s Julia Sex: Female forename: Occupation: Polymer scientist, Date and place of 1 July 1942, London physicist. birth: Mother’s occupation: Teacher Father’s occupation: Civil Servant Dates of recording, Compact flash cards used, tracks (from – to): 6 July 2011 [track 1]; 3 August 2011 [tracks 2 & 3], 5 August 2011 [track 4], 9 August 2011 [tracks 5 & 6], 15 September 2011 [track 7], 18 October 2011 [track 8], 6 December 2011 [track 9] Location of interview: The British Library [Tracks 1, 4, 7, 8, 9]; Imperial College, class room [tracks 2 & 3]; Imperial College interviewee’s office [Tracks 5 & 6] Name of interviewer: Dr Thomas Lean Type of recorder: Marantz PMD661 on SD card Recording format : WAV 24 bit 48 kHz Total no. of tracks 9 Mono or stereo: Stereo Total Duration: 10 hrs. 03 min. 43 sec. Additional material: Copyright/Clearance: Copyright to British Library. Interview Open, except for the following sections, which are closed for 30 years until April 2042: Track 2 [between 11:39-12:32], and track 8 [between 1:01:32-1:02:54 and 1:03:49]. Interviewer’s comments: © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Julia Higgins Page 1 C1379/55 Track 1 [Track 1] Could you introduce yourself, please, Julia. Yes. My name is Julia Higgins. I’m currently a retired professor at Imperial College. I worked most of my academic life at Imperial College London in the department of chemical engineering. Having started life, and we’ll no doubt go back to this, doing physics at Oxford and going through chemistry departments in Manchester, and the research reactor in Grenoble, as well as teaching for a couple of years. So all of those perhaps we need to touch on at some point. I was born in Surbiton, [laughs] which is not the most exciting place to be born in, and spent my formative years in New Malden, Surrey, which is I consider one of the most boring suburbs of Surrey that there is. I was born of a civil servant, my father was a civil servant, and my mother had been a teacher, but she gave up teaching when she had a family and she never went back. So I never experienced her as a teacher. But I think their respective backgrounds made them passionately interested in education for their children, so from one of the earliest anecdotes that I was told was that when I was born my father – and I was the eldest, said looking at me as a scrawling infant, if she wants to go to university, she will. Now he had not been able to go to university because there weren’t funds, he’d had to go out to work at 18. So that was the point he was making. [01:28] So his father, just very briefly, was an interesting guy because he was born in India. His – so my father’s grandfather was a sergeant in the Indian Army, his father was born in India and came back when he was a young teenager, virtually without education, so he was a self-made man, and I suspect therefore didn’t particularly value university education, although they sent my father to a very good school. So he worked, when he left school he worked very briefly for the Greater London Council, and then for the whole of the rest of his career for New Scotland Yard as a civil servant in New Scotland Yard, which always seemed quite a romantic background for us. And he finished up as assistant secretary I think, second – 2IC the civil service in Scotland Yard. So he actually took himself all the way to the top. I’ve often wondered if he could have gone to university where he would have got to, because he © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Julia Higgins Page 2 C1379/55 Track 1 would have started half way up, but he had a very successful career. And my mother was a teacher, her father was an Irishman from an Irish farm, who came to London to make his fortune, and worked all his life in retail, sort of department store type working. Although he probably always hankered after horses and farms. Erm … When were you actually born? Pardon? When were you actually born? Ah, 1942, right in the middle of World War II. Of course, I don’t remember much about that, although one of my very earliest memories was of air raid sirens, and I must have been about two years old at the time. I can remember air raid sirens, and everybody being frightened, and so therefore I was frightened. And I can remember, I’ve a clear memory of going to bed in a shelter, which was the sort of shelter you have in your living room, so I suppose it was just some sort of metal cage into which we crawled to go to sleep. And I can remember my sister in a carrycot, and myself crawling in there to go in to sleep. And I think that’s real memory. Nobody’s told me about it, and I just have this vivid picture of it. So I can just about remember flags out of the window for probably VE day, but I’m not sure which. And then bomb sites all over London, because, you know, even in the suburbs where I lived, one of one’s earliest memories is of bomb sites and of prefabricated houses, you know, it’s sort of part of it. So I went to school, we were a Catholic family, I’m still a Catholic, and I went to Catholic prep school, and then just jumping ahead, passed the Eleven Plus and went to a girls’ convent grammar school. I had in the mean time, a sister who’s two years’ younger than me who became a maths teacher, a very successful maths teacher. A brother who became an architect, and is currently, for example, master of the carpenters’ guild. So very – again, very successful in his career. And a younger brother who has worked all his life with computing, he works, currently works for Logica. He worked quite a long time in – he’s always been an international, the computing that goes with international banking. So he worked for Midland Bank. [05:15] © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Julia Higgins Page 3 C1379/55 Track 1 So that’s a rough picture of the family. You raised quite a few things I’d like to go back to actually if I may. Okay, right. I thought I’d just sketch a few things there. It’s give me lots to ask questions about. Do you want to go back now? Yes, actually. Yes, go ahead. Your father, what’s his name? George Stretton Downs. Could you describe him to me? My father? Yes, he was a rather good-looking guy, with dark hair, brown eyes, fairly dark skin. I take after him in skin colouring and hair colouring quite a lot. Highly intelligent. What he studied at school, because that’s what you did, was classics and Greek Latin ancient history, and would, had he gone to university, would have studied law. But my impression of him, and all the conversations we had, is had be been to a school where he was taught science, he might well have been a very successful scientist. He was a very logical person. But he was never – I mean essentially science didn’t even appear over the horizon, so he didn’t do science at all. My mother as a teacher specialised in nature study, so if you like there was a certain amount of science there. But neither of them had had any background and they produced, in science, they produced one daughter who’s a scientist, one daughter who’s a mathematician, one son who’s an architect, and one son who also read physics and then became a computing expert. So everybody they produced was highly on the © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Julia Higgins Page 4 C1379/55 Track 1 scientific numerical side. And I – that’s one of the reasons why I suspect the genes were there, and that my father could have been a scientist, although, you know, he never was given – he certainly wasn’t going round regretting it, but I think with hindsight it would have been interesting had he been introduced to science.