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CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 138 Ï NUMBER 152 Ï 2nd SESSION Ï 37th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Thursday, November 6, 2003 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) All parliamentary publications are available on the ``Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire´´ at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 9229 HOUSE OF COMMONS Thursday, November 6, 2003 The House met at 10 a.m. First, let me deal with the suggestion that my ruling should lay out the options before the House in this matter. As hon. members know, Prayers the role of the Speaker in matters of privilege is well defined in House of Commons Procedure and Practice at page 122, which states: Ï (1000) The function of the Speaker is limited to deciding whether the matter is of such a [English] character as to entitle the Member who has raised the question to move a motion which will have priority over Orders of the Day; that is, in the Speaker's opinion, PRIVILEGE there is a prima facie question of privilege. If there is, the House must take the matter into immediate consideration. FORMER PRIVACY COMMISSIONER The Speaker: I am now prepared to rule on the question of The Speaker's ruling does not extend to deciding whether a breach of privilege privilege raised by the hon. member for Scarborough—Rouge River has in fact been committed—a question which can be decided by the House itself. on November 4, 2003 concerning the conduct of Mr. George Radwanski before the Standing Committee on Government Opera- It is clear to me that the Speaker's role in matters of privilege and tions and Estimates. contempt is well established in our practice. In my view, it is not the role of the Speaker to suggest how the House may wish to deal with [Translation] a question of privilege or a case of contempt, always assuming that I would like to thank the hon. member for Scarborough—Rouge the House has decided that it is faced with such an offence. The River for having raised an issue which is of importance to all ruling will therefore deal only on whether or not the Chair has found members and to the institution of the House of Commons. I would a prima facie case of contempt. also like to thank the hon. member for New Westminster— Coquitlam—Burnaby, the right hon. member for Calgary Centre Secondly, it has been suggested that the ruling lay down and the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre for their interventions. guidelines for individuals appearing before committees of this [English] House. However tempting the invitation, the Speaker cannot presume to articulate the expectations that committees have of the On November 5, 2003, the hon. government House leader rose in witnesses who come before them. Suffice it to say that I believe all the House to contribute to the discussion. Acknowledging the hon. members will agree with me when I say simply that committees seriousness of this matter and the importance of the ruling of the of the House and, by extension, the House of Commons itself, must Chair in this case, the hon. House leader called on the Speaker to be able to depend on the testimony they receive, whether from public render a ruling which would also provide two statements. To use his officials or private citizens. This testimony must be truthful and own words, the House leader looked to the ruling, first: complete. When this proves not to be the case, a grave situation ...to make it clear to every citizen who may come before a committee of the House results, a situation that cannot be treated lightly. the responsibilities that he or she has...and the consequences that may follow from a failure... to uphold those responsibilities... In the situation before us, I have carefully read the ninth report of And secondly: the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates tabled in the House. The committee's report sets out the testimony of ...to provide the House with an outline of its options should [the Chair] find a prima facie case of contempt... Mr. George Radwanski, the former privacy commissioner, that it found misleading and concludes that, in its view, the former privacy [Translation] commissioner should be found in contempt of the House. The report The hon. government House leader went on to discuss various reviews the conflicts in the testimony and, it seems to me, draws its issues surrounding the possible summoning of a private citizen to the conclusions in a manner that seems reasonable in the circumstances. Bar of the House. I wish to thank the hon. government House leader for his intervention. Accordingly, I conclude that the matters set out in the ninth report [English] of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates are sufficient to support a prima facie finding of a breach Before rendering my decision, I want to address the two requests of the privileges of this House. I therefore invite the hon. member for he has made to the Chair. Scarborough—Rouge River to move his motion. 9230 COMMONS DEBATES November 6, 2003 Speaker's Ruling Ï (1005) or can allow the House to conclude this matter in a way that respects Mr. Reg Alcock (Winnipeg South, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have and upholds the privileges of the House and the traditions of the some additional information on this matter that just arrived in my House. office this morning. I wish to share it with the House. I, on behalf of all members of the House, was prepared today to I have a letter addressed to myself from Mr. George Radwanski in move a motion, which procedurally would happen now, that would which he says the following: have summoned Mr. Radwanski to the House to conclude this I am writing to apologize to you and your Committee, and through you to procedure. I mention this so that the record will show that this is Parliament as a whole, for mistakes that were made during my tenure as Privacy what should happen or would happen. The fact that we have not Commissioner of Canada. done this in some 90 years may well be enough reason for putting it It was never my wish to show any disrespect whatsoever for Parliament or any of on record so that we are all aware of how it may be done in the future the members. I have, on the contrary, the greatest respect for Parliament—not only for the institution, but for the individuals who comprise it. I have been a close in the unfortunate circumstance where it might have to happen. observer of politics and government my whole adult life, and I know well the importance and the challenges of what Parliamentarians do. Mr. Radwanski's letter, in my view, and hopefully in our view, I apologize sincerely and without reservation for anything and everything that allows us to put on record what we might well have had to do using may have given you and your colleagues cause to believe that I misled your the Bar of the House right here. We wish to do the right thing and we Committee or showed insufficient respect. wish to do the right thing for Canadians in their House. I also want to take this opportunity to apologize, through you, to Parliament and to all Canadians for any errors in judgment with regard to administrative and financial matters. I deeply regret that these matters disappointed and offended so Mr. Radwanski's communication this morning I hope will be taken many people, including Members of Parliament, on whose behalf I was seeking to as good judgment on his part and that the matters raised by the work to the very best of my abilities. committee had foundation. Clearly, in hindsight, there are things I wish I had done differently during my tenure as Privacy Commissioner. These past months have been a period of intense reflection, during which I have assessed the events of the past three years and sought Therefore I will not move the motion that I had drafted and the advice of others in order to fully learn from mistakes that were made and be able submitted to the Speaker. I ask colleagues in the House now to agree to do better in the future. that this matter of privilege and the alleged contempt be concluded You may also be assured that I have already paid very dearly over these past four now and that we return to House business. months for any and all errors in judgment I made in the exercise of my duties. There is no aspect of my life that hasn't suffered enormous, perhaps irreparable, blows. Ï (1015) It is very much my wish to be able to put these matters behind me—with some very painful lessons learned—to restore some semblance of normalcy in my life, and Mr. Ken Epp (Elk Island, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I to continue trying as a private citizen to make a positive contribution in whatever am somewhat distressed about this. I believe that if any individual ways may remain open to me. were to commit perjury in one of the courts in our country, it is not Yours sincerely, very likely that the judge would say that since they were sorry, it was George Radwanski. okay, and they should just carry on because it really did not matter. I wish to table this letter, Mr. Speaker. That would not happen. Ï (1010) Perjury in court is a serious matter.