Art andResponsibility Art A Conversation aboutHistory, nta,they blame Instead, front thecriticismsaimedatfilm. isthatfew directlycon- what issurprising there arealsothosewhodefend lence andcateringtoauthority. Ofcourse, criticizingthemovie forpraisingvio- articles side ofChina.Many peoplehave written has attractedcensurebothinsideandout- im initsdesire toappealamassaudi- film, thattheaveragea truism entertainment raise suchstrongfeelingsofantipathy? Itis thatisboundto with athematicideology why didyouchooseascript tainment film, “Ifyou’redirector: onlyproducing anenter- butatthe around andaimednotatcritics, ideology?” why doyoukeep criticizingits ment film, view howarewe toevaluate andcritically artist, asan andhistrajectory todate, of work nity.4 Withinthecontextofhisentirebody prominent roleintheChinesefilmcommu- ZhangYimouhasalsoassumeda stature, of mostrecentlyfollowingtherelease China, ized anddebateddomesticallywithin lion- criticized, hasbeenbanned, His work acclaiminternationally.achieved artistic tion” filmmakers, The film Is HU PING:ANAHISTORICALFANTASY TWO OPENINGINTERPRETATIONS: two mainlandChinesedirectors Sharon Hom: BY SHARON HOMANDHUPING Viewing Cultural Review eeyrsod “ merely respond, and to refutecriticismofthefilm’s theme, andpoliticalinclinations. ology sonably focusingonthefilm’s thematicide- activists? ashumanrights relevant toourwork of art are debatesaboutafilmorany work Hero Hero nfc,thisquestionshouldbeturned In fact, The film’s make defenders noattempt Hero . merely entertainment? 3 Hero In additiontohisinternational ? Whoisthis“we”? Why andhow Hero directedby ZhangYimou, , One ofChina’s Genera- “Fifth 1 Hero : Zhang Yimouisoneof Hero is justanentertain- ’s criticsforunrea- 2 Hero who have but , film aboutalmostanything. Why chose right back:“You canmake acommercial money. Thisdefensecanalsobeasked merely acommercialfilmaimedatmaking that ZhangYimoufilmed itisatacitconfirmation that claimismade, commercialsuccess.If such anenormous target audience.Thethemeespousedby theme thatmightoffendthevaluesofits willassiduouslyavoid any topicor ence, public sensibilitiesasthosein would notcontaindetailssooffensiveto and the valuesofmassaudience, entirelyto the vastmajoritywouldconform and novels thatwouldmake films, terrific the Three Kingdoms the Three by The historicalvisionandvaluesespoused On theahistoricalfictionofHero tance oftheauthorities, andassis- andwithoutthesupport tance, andassis- would withholdtheirsupport authorities wouldbelesstolerantand the hadbeenchosen, a differentstory money. Thedefense mightbemadethatif director hadmoreinmindthanmaking inevitably leadsonetosuspectthatthe Hero Hero but amoralityplay. film, producing was notanentertainment thissuggeststhatwhathewas ues, rance. Ifheknowinglyviolatedtheseval- hewas actinginigno- the valuesofothers, im.Tefrtkn,suchas kind, films. Thefirst three typesofhistoricalfictionor thereare Generallyspeaking, ative efforts. otherwise itwouldbetray thedirector’s cre- tion thatitmustbeconvincingly realistic, at thefilm:Itisespeciallybecauseitfic- be taken soliterally? sowhy shouldit isfictional, that thestory severe criticism.Thefilm’s say defenders authorities. fact thatZhangYimouchose provocative thethemeof If ZhangYimoufailedtoconsiderhow and standardsofChineseorforeigners. tothevalues mentality; itdoesnotconform aswell humanrights astomodern thought, son. togenuinefeelingsandrea- but conforms andevents, kind usesfictionalcharacters andevents. Thesecond of realpersons Hero Defenders of Defenders htqeto,to canbethrownback too, That question, ? There are many Chinese martial arts ? Therearemany Chinesemartial Hero is anaffronttotraditionalscholarly have bothbeensubjectedto ’s fictionisofadifferent typethan Hero isaspiced-upversion , also say thatitis Hero Hero Hero Romance of Hero would notbe to pleasethe would beto Hero . The Kaige’s film Anyone watches ino h i meo,whichis tion oftheQinEmperor, the matteristhatattemptedassassina- of itselfisfictional.Thecrux but thestory director hasmadeapointofemphasizing), against arealhistoricalbackdrop(asthe takes place either ofthese.Itsstory itr.Frta esn China’s has history history. For thatreason, fear it;whatthey dread isthejudgmentof sothey donot people donotbelieve inHell, evil context ofrighteousness.” InChina, “Offering praiseandcriticismwith inthe other isitsstressonmoraljudgment, withoutfearorfavor,” the “Writing thetruth, features: oneisaninsistenceonfact, teachings; we relyonhistory. through history. relyonreligious Others through religionisofferedtoChinese meaning oflife.Whatisofferedtoothers moral standardsandstillsearchforthe butthey have gion oratranscendentfaith, people. Chinesepeoplelackgenuinereli- isthereligionofChinese History mustbeheldinreverence History the (from circulating formorethan2,000years attempt againsttheQinEmperorhasbeen himself.Themyth oftheassassination artist butthevaluesof before usisnothistory, laidout andtherevised history history, usingone’s ownvaluestochange in effect, is, tions canbeprojected.“Revising” history through whichhisvalueinclina- tional work and sensibilitytocreateanahistoricalfic- fromhistoricalreality feels obligedtodepart he fulfill thevaluesheneedstoexpress, cannot even withfictionalelements, bilities, mance withhistoricalfactorsensi- inconfor- he feelsthatproducingawork faction withhistoricalrealityissostrongthat and standards.Whenthecreator’s dissatis- real events have violatedtheauthor’s values andindicatesthat satisfaction withhistory, typically expressesitscreator’s extremedis- itisactuallyahistorical. not historical, emotional orhistoricalreality. Not onlyisit toeither doesnotconform main storyline, past serve thepresent. past serve ahistorical fictioninattemptingtomake the immediately aware ofthedirector’s useof Emperor andhissocialinfluencewillbe ity withthevariousdepictionsofQin of therelevant historicalfactsandafamiliar- Chinese history hasatleasttwospecial Chinese history An artistic fiction that counters history fictionthatcounters An artistic Annals ofthe Warring States The Emperorandthe Assassin Hero with anunderstanding to Chen Hero ’s ).

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SHARON HOM: The visual beauty of Hero echoes Zhang EMBEDDED SUBVERSION Yimou’s signature use of color palettes to paint his lush cinematic images. Like Red Despite my past interest in the work of Sorghum, Ju Do or Raise the Red Lantern, Zhang Yimou, I was actually not very inter- Hero runs the risk of domesticating the vio- ested in seeing Hero when it was released lence depicted, romanticizing each version in the U.S. But your excellent essay about of the truth, or clothing deadly power with Hero, which first appeared in Beijing awesome beauty. There are the billowing Spring, raised interesting questions for me colors of oceans of silk—deadly red swirls, about the role of art, history, and ethical white swirls wielded by Maggie Cheung—so obligation. Your essay has outlined clearly powerful that she does not even need a the various debates on the film. These sword to stop the rain of steel tipped debates have played out essentially along arrows. There is the last image of the the fault lines of whether it is a Chinese lovers—two white figures, bound in life, apology or defense of fascism or violent bound in death, on a desolate barren plain authoritarianism; whether it is merely of earth. And there is the cavernous hall of Director Zhang Yimou: creative quandary. entertainment, a commercial box office power where the Emperor sits amidst stun- Photo: Reuters movie, beautiful art or a sell-out by Zhang ning columns of green silk filled with dan- Yimou to the Chinese regime. These gerous invisible winds. debates tend to fall into polar arguments The different versions filmed in domi- been obliged to bear the function of moral and positions, taking as their starting point nating tints of red, blue, white and green lit- judgment. the filmmaker’s intent. erally color the truth asserted, signaling the In the post-authoritarian era, rulers have To frame or introduce this exchange on different paths ending in deadly choices. had to use the old methods of weaving and Hero, I want to suggest a few questions and Each time the “story” is retold, or to use constructing their portion of history, while themes about history, interpretation, and political reference, each time the story and at the same time beginning to encourage a the relationship between art and its chal- the characters are rehabilitated, their cynicism toward history, and to the best of lenges for the audience, viewer or reader. “true” natures are flipped, reversed or their ability dissipating the reverence with What is interesting is the possibility of a undermined. But in each version, the char- which Chinese people hold history. Movies subversive reading of Hero, one that may or acters are faced with a choice—a choice such as those released a few years ago may not have been consciously planted in that has momentous consequences. about the Qing Dynasty rulers, and Hero the film by Zhang Yimou, though I want to more recently pay subtle tribute to autoc- suggest that a subversive message is The possibility and racy; anyone who criticizes them is coded in the structure of the film. There is challenged subversive choice reminded that they are only entertainment also an interesting sidestepped question: Hero can also be seen as raising the chal- and not meant to represent reality. It is what do these debates and the way they lenges and possibilities of multiple truths comparable to someone who berates are carried out reveal about the possibility and the complex issues of ethical invest- another while pretending to be drunk. for democratic discursive space inside ments in different narratives, each claiming Because he is sober, he is aware that his China and in the overseas Chinese dias- to convey the “truth” of the road to the behavior is inappropriate, but if you attempt pora communities? aborted assassination of a tyrant. Is Zhang to reason with him, he will lurch back into Yimou embedding the real question the film his drunk act and make it look as if you’re Multiple simultaneous histories is exploring in the space between the differ- raising a fuss over nothing. Depriving his- A nation has a history, or more accurately, ent versions? Does the “message” and sig- tory of its sacred character is a means of every nation has contested histories writ- nificance of Hero lie perhaps not in the making people “live in the present,” so that ten and rewritten by those who aim to obvious or surprising ending of each ver- current values become the only yardstick of rewrite the past in order to control the pres- sion, but in the space of choice that exists existence; in this way, it serves those in ent and shape the future. Film, perhaps like between each version, in the space of inter- power and works against their opponents all art, is culturally and historically situated pretative choice between artists and view- and the general public—in other words, and marked by these struggles, and there- ers? benefiting the evil and harming the good. fore debates about a particular film should Why authoritarianism and violence tri- For Chinese, with our lack of religion, if not be only carried out only within the iso- umphs is perhaps not due solely to the vic- history is deprived of its sacred character, lated frame of a single film. Each human tory of brute military force, or the seduction what is there that remains sacred? If the being also has a history, which often under- of militarism, or the power of spectacle. Chinese people lose what is sacred in their goes the revisionist process of autobiogra- Does it matter that that Zhang Yimou has lives, what kind of life is that? phy or memoir. Each artist also has his or “violated” history because of the gap For that reason, as Chinese we must her artistic trajectory, mapped by a body of between Hero’s story and facts as show reverence for history. work, each work in dialogue or even tension enshrined in established history? It might with previous work. matter if Hero were presented as documen- Party. Thesubversive potential of appropriation by theChineseCommunist cisms ofitsahistoricityorin ments posedinitsdefenseorthecriti- watched points ofviews. Afriendof minefirst cles commentingonthemovie fromother go beyond that.There have beenotherarti- and didn’t really main ideabehindthefilm, ing toonlyfocusontheanalysisof was reallytry- range ofopinions.Myarticle Hu Ping(HP): subversive readingof perhapsthemost day andhealingprocess, June 4thstilldemandapublicjudgment about accountability andsilencedtruths wherethe where thereisgrowingunrest, endure. thatallowstyranny to by theEmperor, orthepropagandaoffered Tianxia ideology, the embrace atthecostofone’s ownlife, to tion thatthereisachoicetoaccept, of film. Thesubversive reading/interpretation asafeature butitisshotasfiction, tary, poem.” Themovie ofa reach theultimateinterpretation ancient Chinesesaying: “You cannever and explainitinvariousways. Thereisan fromdifferentviewpoints any pieceofart NOW ACONVERSATION for heroismagainstallodds. thepossibility and yetpowerful—carrying depends uponeachoneofus—nameless andthattheabilityoftyranny toendure ble, choiceisstillpossi- control ofpropaganda, powerful andthe andseductiveideology gestion isthateven inthefaceofa sions. Perhaps themostsubversive sug- space ofchoicebetween thedifferentver- butinthe ofthetruth, color-coded version element embeddedin choose nottodoso?Thatisthesubversive to topplehim.Thequestioniswhy doeshe individual whoholdsinhishandthepower becauseofthechoicemadeby an survives gized fractured“history,” tyrant thebrutal the mission.InZhangYimou’s mytholo- outorabort the individualchoicetocarry thenisfacedwith within strikingdistance, Nameless haspaidtheheavy pricetoget when in thatultimatemomentofchoice, after hesaw thefilminatheater hedevel- But the opinionsIexpressedinmy article. Hero In thecontextofpresent-day China, lies notinresolutionoftheargu- Hero nvdo andheagreedwith on video, It’s always possibletoview Hero Hero Hero can provoke awide —the sugges- lies notineach Hero lies cism of anticipated thattherewouldbealotofcriti- remember this. the sameway. It’s forusto important very it the audienceinChinawouldunderstand lnfie,the princeregentdidnotretali- plan failed, andhow afterthe nate theprinceregent, how Wang Jingwei was planningtoassassi- at theendofQingDynastyabout a story assassination plantoZhao.There was also herevealed thewhole kill him.Instead, was agoodgentleman anddecidednotto herealizedthatZhao fully readingbooks, atZhao’sarrived homeandsaw himpeace- assassination attempt.Whentheassassin Autumn Period whowas thetargetofan named ZhaoDunduringtheSpringand therewas aperson history. For example, ries involving assassinationsinChinese Qin Emperor? demonstrate thistalentby beautifyingthe ber ofmeans.Why didyouchooseto talentthroughany num- show yourartistic answer thequestionIraise:You could hestilldidnot beautiful scenery. However, fromits lasting impressionofthefilmapart little insisted thatmostpeoplewouldcarry is tomake peoplefeelgood.Healso qualityofamovie said themostimportant serioustopicasitsmainsubject.He heavy, a explained thatamovie couldnotcarry pointofview.the movie fromanartistic He understood understood Leung ble China.” Asanactorinthefilm, forasta- down onJune4thwas necessary “Thecrack- after themovie was released, actually saidinapressconferenceright the HongKong actorTony LeungChiu-wai Anotherexampleisthat at MaoZedong. the QinEmperorhasgoneforever,” tohint “Thetimeof peopleusedtheslogan, 1976, during China’s movement in AprilFifth self as“MarxplusQinShihuang.” Infact, bol oftyranny. tohim- MaoZedongreferred Emperor hasbeenbecomeapowerful sym- theQin China, agree withme.Inmodern I’mprettysurethatmany would other hand, in Chinawouldshareyourview. Onthe But I’mafraidthatfew ofthefilm’s viewers view ofthemovie fromadifferentangle. from theaestheticviewpoint. toevaluate themoviefilm thathepreferred effectofthe so impressedby theartistic Hetoldmehewasoped adifferentfeeling. hn io,asthemovie’s director,Zhang Yimou, There have been many interestingsto- Now youhave presentedmewithyour Hero Hero andhebasicallydefended , nti a,andmostof in thisway, and negativefloodofcriticismthat film didnotraisethekindofhugedebate this lonelysoul.AsfarasIknow, tortured, Emperor somewhat sympatheticallyasa the butalsoportrays in historicalfact, Emperor. tobebettergrounded Itappears an attempttoassassinatetheQin of individualstochangetheirworldviews. change isimpossiblewithoutthecapacity andsocial human dignityandpotential, which issocialchangefortheprotectionof thegoalof engage inhumanrightswork, we static orcannotchange.Afterall, ofthefilmis pretation orunderstanding itdoesn’t meanthatinter- sage Isuggest, handful ofpeopleseethesubversive mes- ception. Soeven ifinallofChinaonlya raising thepossibilityofachangeinper- thus son toseethesamefilmdifferently, andforthesameper- same filmdifferently, ing thatit’s possibleforpeopletosee the and promotenationalism.I’malsosuggest- provide implicitjustificationforJune4th nese government’s politicizeduseofitto even re-appropriatingthefilmfromChi- transcends even thefilmmaker’s intent, onethat readingofthefilm, versive ity. WhatIamsuggestingisapossible sub- the Beijingregimetomaintainsocialstabil- by present-day politicalimperativeasserted ofthefilmthatrelatesittoa interpretation Sharon Hom(SH): tfl rltrtr,isn’t therethedangerof it filmorliterature, be ofart, and feelsrigorouslyaboutworks butacriticasanyone whothinks scholars, such asculturalcriticsoracademics and critics andImeannotjustformal critics, Ifwework. thinkcriticallyaboutthe roleof the messagesorvisionsembedded intheir they forms createand between theartistic explorethetension writer Wang Shuo, something aboutwhy youthinkthisistrue? inside andoutsideChina.Canyousay has engenderedintheChinesecommunity ject of We can’t get away withsaying thatthesub- but gave itup.Howcanthisbeexplained? outtheassassination tocarry opportunity saying thattheassassinwas giventhe by ofhistory a scriptthatviolatedthetruth Emperor. Heeven madeapointofselecting oftheQin but ZhangYimouchosethestory such dramaticstoriesinChinesehistory, ate againstWang Jingwei. Therearelotsof Chen Kaigealsomadeamovie about lo ayCieeatss suchasthe many Chineseartists, Also, Hero is not important. is notimportant. I’m notrejectingan Hero

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using criticism to limit the artistic space for unauthorized duplication. The walls of the Revolution concentrated the full force of Chi- artists? What are we suggesting is the role Great Hall of the People were hung with nese Communist Party tyranny. The Cultural of art if we ask artists to bear moral, ethi- posters proclaiming, “March Hero toward Revolution is still a forbidden subject in cal and political responsibility? What are the Oscars!” Chinese television presented China today, and it’s not easy to touch on it, the human rights implications of this? Hero during prime time, and all of the other even though the official line has become movies had to make way for it. This kind of critical of that period. If Zhang really wants HP: I’ve heard of Chen’s movie, but I’ve dominance can only be imposed by the gov- to make a film about the Cultural Revolu- never had a chance to see it. I’ve watched ernment, and only in China. Zhang Yimou tion, it’s quite possible that he could obtain Hero twice. I think that Zhang Yimou him- knew that very well, and the price he paid a government permit now that he’s gained self didn’t really take the subject and the for this dominance was compromise. more and more trust from the government main idea of the movie seriously. He was Maybe he thought that compromise in the past few years. He produced China’s mainly seeking to express the beauty of wasn’t that important, and that the audi- closing ceremony for the Athens Olympics, visual art. He put a lot of effort into it, and ence wouldn’t care about the issues where as well as directing the promotional film for really did impress his audience. Zhang he compromised. He might have believed the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Zhang Yimou has always wanted to make a big-scale that the audience would only be watching was well aware that many excellent artists movie like those produced in Hollywood, the film for entertainment and for the aes- before him had been left out in the cold and with a cast of thousands, a major master- thetic experience. Last year, when Zhang had never been able to put their talents to piece. However, these kinds of movies Yimou told Reader’s Digest, “There is no use because they didn’t obey the govern- require the involvement of a lot of people, such thing as one hundred percent freedom ment. Zhang took that as a lesson and con- and can only be produced openly. In in art,” he was basically admitting that he centrated on expressing his talent through China, there have been some small didn’t have creative freedom. He also made the pure artistry of composition and color. movies touching on social problem that a point of adding, “In China’s current social were basically put together by one person. climate, an artist needs to preserve his sin- SH: I agree that Zhang Yimou making a Such movies don’t need much in the way gle spark and maintain his creative mental- promo for the Olympics is deeply disturb- of funding or human resources, so the ity.” This is suggesting the need to avoid ing, especially from our human rights point directors have a lot more freedom. Produc- offending the government. You will lose of view. The nationalism invoked by the ing a major film in China requires permits your opportunity if you do so. An artist has Olympics makes it much more complex and from the government. to compromise with the government in challenging for HRIC as a Chinese interna- I think Zhang could defend himself by order to protect himself. tional NGO to develop effective Olympics- saying, “Hey, all you writers need to start related advocacy. What you’re also with is a pen and a sheet of paper, and you SH: I agree with your points that there are suggesting is that Zhang Yimou may have can create any work you like. You can hide economic and political constraints and wanted to build up the government’s trust your work in a mountain cave, or send it demands upon a filmmaker to be able to in him so he could eventually produce a abroad for publication, or post it on the realize his or her vision and creative visions, film on the Cultural Revolution. But he actu- Internet if that’s the only way to get it pub- and that these affect the production and ally has already made a Cultural Revolution lished right away. But I’m a movie director. I distribution of their work. But I think it would film—To Live (1994)—which I think is a can’t present a battle on a piece of paper. I not be completely fair to consider the powerful depiction of the tragic costs on a have to express my artistic thoughts and responses Zhang Yimou or any artist gives daily human level. As the film critic Rey my aesthetic goals through the shooting of in a public Chinese magazine interview as Chow pointed out, the film is rich with sub- a film. I have to get a government permit; I fully reflecting his intent. And you point out versive messages and criticism of the suf- have to compromise and choose a subject yourself that he is saying that artists are fering and abuses endured by those who that the government can accept so they’ll constrained and need to make compro- survived, those who did not survive and give us the green light.” But these aren’t mises in order to create inside China. But those who may have chosen not to survive, the days of the Cultural Revolution any all this is still focusing on what Zhang to continue to live. To Live was beautifully more. The Chinese government is more tol- Yimou intended or how the Chinese govern- suffused with the quiet dignity of ordinary erant now than it was before. It’s even pos- ment politicized and used and promoted the people as opposed to the lush visual sible to satirize social problems in a film for its own purposes. Is this the whole beauty of his other films. So it may not be a roundabout way without getting into a lot of universe of possible interpretation for the simple matter of compromises made, but a trouble. Why doesn’t Zhang wanted to con- film? Isn’t it possible that Hero is like the constant negotiation of the limits of living tribute his effort in this direction? Trojan Horse of the ancient Greeks, carrying under a system of censorship and control. As a matter of fact, Zhang Yimou’s Hero a whole internal subversive force that is is quite unusual in the amount of support it ironically welcomed in by those completely HP: I have different opinion from you on received from the Chinese government dur- unaware of its full contents? this. I believe that few people in China ing production. The premier of Hero was would view the movie from the same per- held in the Great Hall of the People. Every- HP: Zhang Yimou once said that he wanted spective as you. The majority would be one who attended the showing was very much to make movies about the Cul- caught up in the movie’s main subject mat- searched for video equipment to prevent tural Revolution. As we all know, the Cultural ter. The Chinese government was also con- modern China. modern become themostpopularmovie directorin and istheultimatereasonwhy Zhanghas the Chinesegovernmentmostwelcomes, side ofacage.Thisisthekindattitude no differencebetween theinsideandout- thatthere’s free societyanddictatorship, there’s nosubstantivedifferencebetween that hedoesapprove of. there isnogovernmentorsystemonearth long asZhangindicatesthatultimately butthat’s allrightas really approve ofit, ment knowsthatZhangYimoudoesn’t Chinese government.Thegovern- This kindofcynicalattitudepleasesthe butalso western countries. government, hewas criticizingnotonlytheChinese art, thing asonehundredpercentfreedomin Yimou complainedthatthereisnosuch detail I’d like tobringuphere—whenZhang aesthetics ofthefilm.There’s another pay lessattentiontothesubjectthan really like that ZhangYimouhasmadehedidn’t notthewords. his voice, that theaudiencewouldmainlybeenjoying rationalizing he wouldgoaheadandsingit, stage by Mao,” singing“LongliveChairman on but foundouthecouldonlyperform someone happenedtohave agoodvoice, if For example, only concentrateonart. inspired many toignorepoliticsand others andthis operas, roles intherevolutionary ofwomen’sthe perspective rights. from offer agreatrangeofinterpretation sothey intheoperaswereters women, too.Mostoftheleadcharac- ferent ways, operas indif- can lookattherevolutionary merit.People these songshave realartistic alotof andthefactis, they knowbest, becausethosearethetunes singing them, operas duringgroupsing-alongs.They enjoy dents enjoy singingtunesfromJiang’s ten by theotherthree.Evensomedissi- writ- Nobodyreadsanyyears. ofthearticles forty afternearly operas thathave survived it’sever, onlyJiangQing’s revolutionary most loathedby theChinesepeople.How- JiangQingwas theone tural Revolution, ofthe“GangFour”bers duringtheCul- me giveyouanexample:amongthemem- andnon-subversiveharmless tothem.Let fident thatthismovie wouldbecompletely fcus,we ZhangYimou. understand Of course, Zhang Yimou’s attitudesuggeststhat It’s clearfromanumberofcomments becamefamousfortheir Some artists Hero ’s subject.Hewanted usto back totheCulturalRevolution again. government willbecome.Soonwe’ll be themoredictatoriala are, pendent artists will demandofthem.Andthelessinde- thehigherpricegovernment ment, in thecompetitiontopleasegovern- Zhang’s strategy. whojoin Themoreartists decidetomimic a tragedyifallotherartists go towaste. Theproblemisthatitwouldbe talentsto tion. Hedoesn’t want hisartistic ambi- order togivefullplay tohisartistic He compromisedwiththegovernmentin ment hasexploited context. Idon’t disagreethatthegovern- you have ofChina’s andcultural history byand informed thedeepunderstanding andthegovernmentshapedby of theartist our analysis.You’re focusingontheintent andfocusof diverging onistheframework about thesameissue.Whatwe’re really SH: about whetherthis diminishesthevalueof racismandsoon.The debate fascism, orlegitimatetheforcesoftyranny,support made compromisesortaken positionsthat tent orintheprocessofcreationhave whoeitherinthecon- andcomposers ers writ- ofanumbergreatfilmmakers, work andinthe we’ve seeninmany contexts, Ithinkthat’s anissue expression, artistic human rightsviolationsworldwide. does notchangethisfactofpervasive government views thisasgoodforthem range ofabuses.ThefactthattheChinese differ inthedegreesofegregiousnessand but intheworld, country tions existinevery straints. Thisiswhy humanrightsviola- which individualsarenotfacedwithcon- freesocietyin hasatruly that nocountry description of thestateworld— true butasanunfortunately necessarily cynical, freedominwestern countriesas artistic tem ofcontrol? encoded inthecontextofthiskindsys- tant toaskwhatkindsofmessagesmay be suggesting isthatitmay bejustasimpor- ocratic andopensociety. WhatIam andforadem- forart ent voicesnecessary the costwillbeanerosionofindepend- ment andnever says “no”tocompromise, wagon topleaseanauthoritariangovern- China orinany systemjumpsontheband- in oreveryone also agreethatifartists Yimou’s complicityandcompromises. I On yourpointaboutcontentversus I alsodon’t seecriticismofthelack I don’t thinkwe have differentopinions Hero , in part withZhang inpart , HP: human rightswork. Both questionspresentimplicationsfor question. thoughrelated, tant butseparate, isanimpor- the ethicalintegrityofartist theaudienceorreader.viewer, Ithink choiceimposedonthe of interpretative which have todowiththeethicalobligation really addressthequestionsI’mposing, inany casedoesnot isongoing, their work gard themovie’s subjectmatter andtheme That’s why Zhanghasurgedpeopleto disre- doing in butthat’s notwhat ZhangYimouwas this, strongly. have done Many Chineseartists while actuallycriticizingthegovernment tothegovernment lookharmless work ismerelypretendingtomake his artist able tofollowit.We couldassume that an few intheaudiencewillbe this symbol, is madetopresentadifferentmeaningfor Chinese consciousness.Evenifanattempt become asymbolthat’s hard-wiredintothe over ofathousandyears thecourse other subjectmatter. TheQinEmpirehas so muchcriticismifhehadselectedsome Yimou isthathewouldn’t have comeunder youwon’t discover hissubversion. symbols, subversive. Butifyoucan’t his understand andIbelieve thesethoughtsarequite well, to. Wang Shuopackagedhisthoughtsvery –even manyvors Chinesemay notbeable would beabletoextractthesesubtlefla- intranslation.Idon’ters thinkforeigners butIdoubtthey’d appealtoforeign- China, blasphemy. popularin Hisbooksarevery themintoakindof daily triflesandturning tochatterabout use seriouspoliticalterms Shuo isagreatwriterinChina.Hisfigures ual’s experience andhabits.Wang personal reallydependsonanindivid- ofart work thehiddenmeaningofa Understanding knows he’s criticizingtheCommunist Party. thereaderimmediately role inhisstory, when awritergivestheEmperornegative So automatically relatesittoMaoZedong. he abouttheQinEmperor, reads astory those symbols.WhenamainlandChinese background youengageinunderstanding butalsofromthedifferent point ofview, opinion comesnotonlyfromadifferent Yournism formorethanfiftyyears. different giventhatthey have livedunderCommu- art, of standing thehiddenmeaningofawork ence iscapableofidentifyingandunder- What I’m trying tosay aboutZhang What I’mtrying culy Ibelieve thattheChineseaudi- Actually, Hero . Heactuallydidtheopposite.

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and only pay attention to the art. He knew can see that shifts in perception, language demonstrations in South Korea. First of all, very well that what he had done was wrong, and attitudes are not only possible in China, the South Korean government clearly stated and that he was not on solid ground. but are actually happening. that it opposed Japan joining the Security Council, and some Korean citizens took to SH: You point out, and I agree, that growing HP: There have been many novels and the streets the express the same view, up a controlled society trains people to movies about China’s ancient empires in since they hate Japan. But the Chinese gov- “read between the lines” for implicit mes- recent years. Two years ago it was Kang Xi, ernment never said it opposed Japan joining sages, often messages that may under- now it’s Han Wu Di. This all started happen- the UN Security Council. The Chinese mine the explicit ones. So the question is ing in the 1990s. These kinds of movies people should have immediately demanded still, why would the majority of viewers in wouldn’t have been so readily accepted in that the government take a clear-cut stand China not see the subversive potential in the 1980s, since people at that time were on this issue, since this is a diplomatic Hero? What is the role of ideological control still climbing out from under the shadow of issue and the ordinary Chinese have no in shaping how and what people see, and in the Cultural Revolution and would have right to vote in the UN. At least they should creating the gaps between what people see viewed such works negatively or critically. It have written open letters to the government, and what they feel they can express pub- was only in the 1990s that praising power asking government to represent their views. licly? Or the more important question— gained popularity. Hero is part of this trend. Strangely, they didn’t do this. even if the majority did NOT see a possible I think we should remember that to a great The matter of Diaoyutai Island is also subversive interpretation on first viewing, extent, there is no alternative voice in quite strange. There’s an island called Du what are the possibilities for seeing it dif- China, and that it is only through debate Island that’s under dispute between Japan ferently when viewing it again? and discussion of different opinions that and Korea. Last month, a Japan reconnais- There are at least three quick examples we can form a real mainstream view. If the sance plane few over the island, and the that suggest that fundamental changes in majority of people only hear one side, that Korean government immediately sent four social perceptions are possible or underway. viewpoint will become the majority voice of fighter planes to intercept it and force it to First, we can see the dual responses to the people. The Chinese Communist Party leave. Chinese who believe Diaoyutai Island patriotism and nationalism in the Chinese knows this well, and that’s why they’ve belongs to China should call on the govern- government’s handling of the recent anti- always maintained tight control over the ment to maintain its sovereignty by protect- Japanese protests that the government people. At the same time, the Chinese ing the island. Yet we’ve never seen any first exploited then shifted to take control people are also well aware of this. You can reaction from the Chinese government of these sentiments. At the same time, try to ask an ordinary Chinese an incisive when the Japanese carry out activities on there are already forces within China that question on the street, and I’m sure he will the island. Instead of protesting to the Chi- are challenging the government’s dominant not dare to answer it. nese government, you just have some Chi- definition and invocation of a patriotism I’ll give you an example. Two years ago, nese taking a boat to the island that does not allow criticism. As China a philosophy professor from New York Uni- themselves. Clearly, the Chinese know they becomes increasingly integrated into the versity visited Peking University. The stu- can’t make any demands of their govern- global economy and international commu- dents were very familiar with the professor’s ment, and for that reason Chinese demon- nity, what kind of nation will China be in the work, and they asked him lots of questions. strations and protests are very different twenty first century? How will we define But the students immediately went silent from real ones. They’re not logical and “Chinese”? Secondly, for thousands of when the professor asked them about don’t really stem from patriotism or nation- years it could be said that Chinese culture schoolmates who had been arrested by the alism, unlike those of the Koreans, who are reflected a very clear and negative social government. The students knew this was a expressing their true feelings. view of women, but this view is now under- problematic topic. They would admit on one Chinese do a lot of play-acting. Some- going change—slow and uneven, but hand that freedom and democracy are times we say one thing, sometimes some- change nonetheless. Chinese women good, but on the another hand they would thing completely different. We all have our themselves are demanding and creating tell you that this was not yet the right time own considerations and purposes that are these changes. for China. They used this as a rationaliza- clear in our own minds. It is very important Thirdly, the concept of human rights has tion. They knew clearly what they could or to understand this. Once you do, you will been developing within the international could not ask, what they could or could not realize that it is meaningless to carry out a community and within China. There are do and even what they could or could not public opinion survey in China today. Just many debates on China’s politics, economy think. They were conscious of a line it was think about it: if you were a Chinese in and human rights in international settings dangerous to cross. We can easily find out China, would you express your true feelings such as the UN, and human right conditions that the students are not as open as they for a survey? in China have improved in some respects, claim by casually asking them some sensi- while there are still many serious problems tive questions. SH: I completely agree with you. A recent and violations. I think the Chinese govern- Another example is the recent demon- report by a Chinese scholar on the develop- ment, Chinese GONGOs and NGOs have strations in China against Japan becoming ment of the Internet in China concluded also become more sophisticated in using a permanent member of UN Security Coun- that based upon opinion surveys, Chinese human rights concepts and language. So we cil. They were quite different from the people today feel they’re freer to express

The National Ballet of China rehearses ZhangYimou’sThe NationalBallet ofChinarehearses “Raisethe RedLantern.” Photo:AFP/GettyImages HP: issues. and accesstoinformation wework dotoraisefreedomofexpression thehumanrights China andundermines andcontrolin whole systemofcensorship civil societyinChina.Thisignoresthe and thatthereisagrowingindependent people things arenotthatbadforordinary theview that assupporting this report have pointedto many western observers of thiskindresearchisproblematic.But thevalidityandreliability society like China, soliciting reliableandfrankopinionsina methodological andpoliticalchallengesof their opinionsthanbefore.Giventhe better thantheAmericanDemocraticParty isany that theChineseCommunistParty percent satisfactionlevel. There’s noway difficulttoreceiveeven a50 would bevery zines dislike theAmericangovernment—it that many andmaga- Americannewspapers cans andBritons.It’s ridiculous!We know confidence oftheirgovernmentthanAmeri- China showingthattheChinesehave more in outasurvey fessor herewhocarried You’re right.Ihave afriendwho’s apro- change people’s perceptions.Istillthink gesting thatthekey questionishowto That’sperceptions ofothers. why I’msug- would beabletoinfluencetheviews and you free tospeakbackhomeinChina, were andthatifyouorothers are powerful, Iagreethatwords human rightsworkers. SH: why they don’t dareletusgoback. andthat‘s alsoknowsit, Communist Party byand changeothers theirwords.The commentator knowsthatthey caninfluence public Chinese wouldtake my side.Every I’msurethat90percentofthe one month, China andspeaktotheChinesepeoplefor ifIhadachancetogoback nist Party, theCommu- percent ofallChinesesupport today showingthat90 outasurvey carries we Evenifsomeone caninfluenceothers. because forustospeakup, important very What theyfeariswhatwe’re truly It’s doing. ment doesn’t believe any ofthesesurveys. theChinesegovern- its people?Actually, a 70or80percentconfidencelevel from sohowcoulditreceive or RepublicanParty, That’s andchallengeforusas thework itr,thepresentandfuture. history, own. That’s hasthepower toaffect why art ittakes onalifeofits child—once created, butthefilmislike a Yimou createdafilm, himself.Zhang oreven theartist Party whetherit’s theCommunist ofart, work nobody cantotallycontrolthemeaningofa choices arepresentedastooeither-or— thatsometimesthe though, made? Ithink, position? Whatarethecompromisesbeing fromamore independent“outside” work orto programs ofexchangeandtraining, lic accountability?To in-country support transparencyandpub- stronger monitoring, ortopushfor mutual understanding, and nese governmenttobuilduptrust toengageindialoguewiththeChi- actors: thebusinesscommunityandother ments, govern- are alsochoicesfacingactivists, SH: HP: leave anything tohistory. becausethey’re notallowed to like fools, and refusetocompromiseenduplooking ntehmnrgt okw o there weIn thehumanrightswork do, So those who persist intheirideals So thosewhopersist

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that actually it’s helpful to have different beyond the question of compromise or SH: The fact is, no matter how hard the gov- strategies in progress simultaneously so insistence. They don’t need the govern- ernment tries, it can never maintain com- they can create overlapping ripples of ment’s permission to do what they do, and plete control. That’s why we have the expanded political space. At the same this makes their lives easier and their con- opportunity to make a difference. time, I think the test for any strategy, sepa- sciences more at peace. But there will rately or in conjunction with other never be many such people. The majority HP: It often seems that dissidents are approaches, should be whether this work will always be swaying between various lonely voices in the wilderness. But as contributes to supporting independent degrees of compromise. Vaclav Havel observed, they are still useful. voices and expanding and legitimating When the time is ripe, one ordinary person greater civil space inside China. SH: I agree with you. It’s up to each person, can disarm a whole division, and one last each nameless person, to do whatever he blow can make the dictatorship crumble. HP: This is not a choice only for an artist, or she can to gradually expand the space I’ve said before that when a dictatorship is but for every citizen: whether or not to for everyone. in power, people can’t imagine how it could maintain your principles; to what degree ever collapse. But once the dictatorship you maintain them; if you feel a need to HP: Here’s another example. In 1989 the has collapsed, people wonder how it ever compromise, how far will you go. It’s not Hungarian government officially announced lasted so long. easy to measure these questions. Some- the rehabilitation of the 1957 uprising, but The dictatorship in communist coun- times we have to make comparisons many Hungarians knew this had happened tries is really as flimsy as a spider web. between similar situations before we can years ago. The newspapers and magazines Everybody knows this, yet no one dares to reach a conclusion. For example, a certain didn’t report anything about it until 1989, poke a finger through it. But the day will choice may not look that bad, but it would but the people themselves spread the truth arrive when everyone says “no” at the be very bad if everybody made the same across their dining tables. In the case of same time, and everyone will find out that choice. On the other hand, we can say that China, we can see that at first the govern- they all are thinking the same way. being a dissident is another kind of choice, ment deprived the Chinese people of news but one that does not benefit one’s per- and facts and kept people ignorant on many Translated by Wang Ai and Stacy Mosher sonal interests. important issues, but after a time, the 1. The term generally refers to the group of people themselves no longer wanted to find young filmmakers who graduated from the SH: We’ve made our way back to June 4th out the truth. This can be seen in many Chi- Beijing Film Institute in 1982. It includes and the way the Chinese government only nese scholars overseas. They have access Chen Kaige, Tian Zhuanghuang, Zhang Jun- allows one version, their version, of what to all kinds of information and read what- zhao and Wu Ziniu. happened and why. But no matter how hard ever they want, but they prefer to remain in 2. The other is Chen Kaige, director of Yellow they try, and despite the passage of almost ignorance. They close their eyes to the truth Earth (1984) and The Big Parade (1985), both 16 years now, there are still courageous about China because they knew this knowl- films shot by Zhang Yimou, and an allegory voices like those of Ding Zilin, Dr. Jiang edge would make them uncomfortable. celebrating the transcendental power of art, Yanyong and others calling for a full Life on a String (1992). accounting. No matter how brutally the gov- SH: Actually, no matter how hard they try, 3. Beginning with Red Sorghum (1988), which ernment suppresses these voices, people they can’t maintain complete control. This won the Golden Bear Award at the Berlin Film Festival, Zhang Yimou’s subsequent films all will not forget what they witnessed, or the is why we have the opportunity to make a received international artistic recognition. Ju loved ones they lost. Although ordinary Chi- difference. The choice exists to reject the Dou (1990) won the Luis Bunnuel Award at nese people don’t dare to speak out, there ideological rationales offered by those in Cannes and the Golden Hugo Award for Best are still choices for them to make, other- power as a justification for maintaining Film at Chicago, and was the first Chinese wise with the passage of time there’s the their power, to say “no” to the human suf- film nominated for an Oscar (for Best foreign danger of historical amnesia. fering and sacrifices demanded. Film). Raise High the Red Lantern (1991) received five prizes at the Venice Film Festi- HP: Mainland Chinese do have some HP: That’s right. When they said they don’t val, including the Silver Lion Award. Zhang’s choices, actually, but the range of choices know, they already know. They say they work has been nominated three times for an is very limited, and there is a higher price don’t know because they dare not face the Academy Award (Ju Dou, 1989; Raise the Red extracted for alternatives. That’s why the truth. It’s like a child that’s afraid to look at Lantern, 1991; Hero, 2002). 4. For example, Zhang Yimou served as one of majority prefers to obey the government. All a dead body. They want to avoid the truth, the judges for the 1993 prestigious Berlin the same, the actual space in China is not because they know once they look at it, Film Festival and he is the subject of the first all that tiny. People could do a little more, their consciences will no longer be at foreign documentary on a Chinese filmmaker speak a little more and in that way enlarge peace. That’s why we will always need (made by BBC). He was elected one of the the space. If everyone is willing to do a lit- people who bravely speak up and others vice presidents for the newly formed main- tle more and say a little more, the risk will who bravely listen. Dr. Jiang is a great land filmmakers association. Xinhua Over- gradually decrease. In a sense, life for model. His story tells us that it’s not that seas News Service, January 17, 1993. people such as Ding Zilin and other dissi- easy for the government to always be in dents is easier and simpler. They’ve gone control.