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Transcript of Today's Hearing Will Be Placed on the Committee's Website When It Becomes Available REPORT ON PROCEEDINGS BEFORE STANDING COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL ISSUES REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE REFORM BILL 2019 UNCORRECTED At Macquarie Room, Parliament House, Sydney on Wednesday, 14 August 2019 The Committee met at 9:45 PRESENT The Hon. Shayne Mallard (Chair) The Hon. Niall Blair The Hon. Abigail Boyd The Hon. Greg Donnelly The Hon. Rose Jackson The Hon. Trevor Khan The Hon. Natasha Maclaren-Jones Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile UNCORRECTED Wednesday, 14 August 2019 Legislative Council Page 1 The CHAIR: Good morning. Welcome to the Social Issues Committee inquiry into the Reproductive Health Care Reform Bill 2019. I am Shayne Mallard, the Chair of the Social Issues Committee. I will read out a statement of some of the rules of the meeting. Before I commence, I would like to acknowledge the Gadigal People who are the traditional custodians of this land. I would also like to pay respect to the elders past and present of the Eora nation and extend that respect to other Aboriginals present or viewing these hearings today. I welcome everyone to the hearing. We will hear today from panels of witnesses representing many churches, pro-life groups and finally two panels of legal experts. Tomorrow we will hear from panels of pro-choice groups, medical groups and others representing organisations and individual perspectives. I thank all witnesses for their flexibility in making themselves available at short notice. The purpose of this inquiry is to assist the members of the Legislative Council with more information both from experts and the general community on the implications of the Reproductive Health Care Reform Bill 2019. This Committee has held similar short inquiries on bills prior to considering them in the House, and we have adopted the same approach for this bill as for previous inquiries into bills. On Tuesday, 20 August the members of the Legislative Council will begin debating the bill, and in doing this they will be assisted by the evidence gathered at these hearings, and the report that will be tabled next week. I would like to thank the thousands of people who have made submissions to this Committee since Friday. All members of this Committee acknowledge that there are very strong views in the community about this bill. As with other inquiries into bills that this and other Committees have conducted, it will not be possible to acknowledge all submissions made. We hope to make available on Parliament's website certain submissions prior to the debate on the bill in the Legislative Council next week. Before we commence, I would like to make some brief comments about the procedures for today's hearing. Today's hearing is open to the public and is being broadcast live via the Parliament's website. A transcript of today's hearing will be placed on the Committee's website when it becomes available. In accordance with the broadcasting guidelines, while members of the media may film or record committee members and witnesses, people in the public gallery should not be the primary focus of any filming or photography. It is important to remember that parliamentary privilege does not apply to what witnesses may say outside of their evidence at the hearing and so I urge witnesses to be careful about any comments they may make to the media or to others after they complete their evidence as such comments would not be protected by parliamentary privilege if another person decided to take an action for defamation. The guidelines for the broadcast of proceedings are available from the secretariat. Due to the short timeframe of the inquiry, there will be no questions taken on notice today. I remind everyone here today that committee hearings are not intended to provide a forum for people to make adverse reflections about others under the protection of parliamentary privilege. Therefore, I request that witnesses focus on the issues raised by the inquiry's terms of reference and avoid naming individuals unnecessarily. Witnesses are advised that any messages should be delivered to Committee members through the Committee staff. To aid the audibility of this hearing, I remind both Committee members and witnesses to speak into the microphones. The room is fitted with induction loops compatible with hearing aid systems that have tele-coil receivers. In addition, several seats have been reserved near the loudspeakers for persons in the public gallery who have hearing difficulties. I ask everyone to turn their mobile phones to silent. I want to make a comment about order in the Committee room. I welcome the large attendance in the public gallery before swearing in our first panel of witnesses, I wish to say a few words to the many of you in the public galleries who have come today to watch proceedings. I would like to welcome you and hope you find today's hearing informative. I know this bill and the issues it deals with is extremely important to all of us here. You may have very strong feelings about statements that either witnesses and committee members make during this hearing. Whatever you think about what is said, though, you need to watch this hearing in silence. Absolutely no applause, jeering or any other gestures will be permitted. Members of the public are also not to display signs or banners. As each witness leaves the hearing, you need to let them leave the room and the building without interference. Also, no photographs or filming are permitted, apart from media photographers authorised to do so; no mobile phone photographs are allowed. I want to emphasise as the Chair of the inquiry that if there is disregard for these hearing rules I will not hesitate to ask people to leave the gallery or temporarily adjourn the hearings. Throughout this hearing please follow any instructions by officers of the committee. Thank you all for you co-operation so we can all hear the evidence given today respectfully. SOCIAL ISSUES COMMITTEE UNCORRECTED Wednesday, 14 August 2019 Legislative Council Page 2 Before I swear in the witnesses, I ask Committee members if there are any issues they want to declare to the inquiry. The Hon. TREVOR KHAN: For the benefit of witnesses, I make a declaration that I am a member of the working group that drew the Reproductive Health Care Reform Bill 2019, introduced into the Legislative Assembly. SOCIAL ISSUES COMMITTEE UNCORRECTED Wednesday, 14 August 2019 Legislative Council Page 3 BISHOP DANIEL, Bishop for the Coptic Orthodox Church, Diocese of Sydney, Queensland and Northern Territory, sworn and examined ANTHONY FISHER, Catholic Archbishop of Sydney, sworn and examined NOCHUM SCHAPIRO, President, Rabbinical Council of Australia, affirmed and examined The CHAIR: I invite you to view, starting with Bishop Daniel to make an opening statement of up to five minutes to the Committee? Bishop DANIEL: To the Hon. Shayne Mallard, MLC, and members of the Standing Committee on Social Issues, upper House of the New South Wales Parliament, Australia. I would like to thank Australia, the country for all, for hosting the Coptic Orthodox Church seculars and citizens since the 1960s, because this year we celebrate the golden jubilee of the Coptic Orthodox Church in Australia. I am happy to provide attachment 1 about the Coptic Orthodox Church. I would like to thank the Committee for giving me the opportunity to attend today to contribute to the Reproductive Health Care Reform Bill 2019. Rushing this matter is questionable and can only be interpreted as an opportunity to minimise public debate. I am disappointed that such a significant public-interest matter is potentially going to pass through Parliament in just a couple of weeks without adequate time afforded to this highly important issue, which has caused so much public division and anger. As Bishop of the Coptic Orthodox Church dioceses for Sydney and affiliated regions in New South Wales, Queensland and the Northern Territory, I represent a congregation of more than 70,000 people who have not been offered enough time to digest and understand how this bill will affect them, even according to our culture. My objection to this bill has been detailed in an open letter from Christian and Muslim religious leaders dated 3 August 2019, which was sent to Legislative Assembly members. This is attachment 2. On Sunday 11 August 2019 I attended a meeting with religious leaders from many denominations to discuss our response to this rushed bill. I am happy to give you a copy about the actions that we took as church leaders. This is attachment 3. In our meeting on 11 August we resolved that we would ask the Committee to postpone voting on the bill for a period of six months to allow an adequate consultative process to take place. We also resolved other actions written in the minutes. I remind you and the Committee that Queensland has taken more than two years to consult with the public, allowing stakeholders to participate, yet New South Wales Parliament wants to rush this process in two weeks. Again, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I pray that you will take our concerns into your consideration. Archbishop FISHER: Chair and members, thank you for the opportunity to address the Committee this morning. If a civilisation is to be judged by how it treats the weakest, the passage of the extreme abortion bill through the other House last week was truly a low point for ours. The way the bill was introduced and rushed through the Legislative Assembly, and this Legislative Council inquiry curtailed, with almost no opportunity for community engagement, will only add to cynicism about Government today.
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