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Transcript of Today's Hearing Will Be Placed on the Committee's Website When It Becomes Available REPORT ON PROCEEDINGS BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE IMPACT OF TECHNOLOGICAL AND OTHER CHANGE ON THE FUTURE OF WORK AND WORKERS IN NEW SOUTH WALES CORRECTED At Macquarie Room, Parliament House, Sydney on Monday 19 April 2021 The Committee met at 9:45. PRESENT The Hon. Daniel Mookey (Chair) The Hon. Mark Banasiak (Deputy Chair) The Hon. Greg Donnelly The Hon. Wes Fang The Hon. Courtney Houssos The Hon. Adam Searle PRESENT VIA VIDEOCONFERENCE Ms Abigail Boyd The Hon. Shayne Mallard Monday, 19 April 2021 Legislative Council - CORRECTED Page 1 The CHAIR: Welcome to the fifth hearing of the Select Committee on the impact of technological and other change on the future of work and workers in New South Wales. Before I commence I would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people, who are the traditional custodians of this land. I would also like to pay respect to the Elders past, present and emerging of the Eora Nation and extend that respect to other Aboriginals present. Today we will begin by hearing evidence from the Woolworths Group; the Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees Association; NSW Farmers; and Uber. Later in the afternoon we will hear representatives of the University of Sydney, Australian Women's Working Futures and the Queensland University of Technology's Centre for Decent Work & Industry. Before we commence I would like to make some brief comments about the procedures for today's hearing. Today's hearing is being broadcast live via the Parliament's website. A transcript of today's hearing will be placed on the Committee's website when it becomes available. In accordance with broadcasting guidelines, media representatives are reminded that they must take responsibility for what they publish about the Committee's proceedings. While parliamentary privilege applies to witnesses giving evidence today, it does not apply to what witnesses say outside of their evidence at the hearing. I therefore urge witnesses to be careful about comments they may make to the media or to others after they complete their evidence. Committee hearings are not intended to provide a forum for people to make adverse reflections about others under the protection of parliamentary privilege. In that regard, it is important that witnesses focus on the issues raised by the inquiry's terms of reference and avoid naming individuals unnecessarily. All witnesses have a right to procedural fairness according to the procedural fairness resolution adopted by the House in 2018. If witnesses are unable to answer a question today and want more time to respond, they can take a question on notice. Written answers to questions taken on notice are to be provided within 21 days of the receipt of the transcript. If witnesses wish to hand up documents, they should do so through the Committee staff. In terms of the audibility of the hearing today, I remind both Committee members and witnesses to speak into their microphone. For those with hearing difficulties who are present in the room today, please note that the room is fitted with induction loops compatible with hearing aid systems that have telecoil receivers. Finally, I ask that everyone please turn their mobile phone to silent for the duration of the hearing. SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE IMPACT OF TECHNOLOGICAL AND OTHER CHANGE ON THE FUTURE OF WORK AND WORKERS IN NEW SOUTH WALES Monday, 19 April 2021 Legislative Council - CORRECTED Page 2 CARMEL PELUNSKY, Director, Talent and Future of Work, Woolworths Group, affirmed and examined JESSICA DIGBY, Workplace Relations Partner, Woolworths Group, affirmed and examined RACHEL ELLIOTT, Head of Government Relations – Retail, Woolworths Group, affirmed and examined TOM WINDEYER, General Manager, Last Mile, WooliesX, affirmed and examined CRAIG ADAMS, General Manager, National Operations, Woolworths Group, affirmed and examined The CHAIR: I welcome our first witnesses, from the Woolworths Group. Firstly, I acknowledge that many people have travelled from Melbourne and we very much appreciate the time you have taken. I invite a representative of the panel to make an opening statement, if they so choose. Ms PELUNSKY: Thank you, Mr Chair. The Woolworths Group does welcome the opportunity to participate in the hearing today. I am Carmel Pelunsky, Director, Talent and Future of Work for the Woolworths Group. Joining me is Tom Windeyer, General Manager, Last Mile with WooliesX; Craig Adams, General Manager, National Operations, Ops Ex and Customer Experience for Primary Connect, our recently rebranded supply chain business; Jessica Digby, Workplace Relations Partner; and Rachel Elliott, Head of Government Relations for retail. If I may, I will start with some background on the Woolworths Group. Woolworths was founded in December 1924, and after 96 years of operation the group is Australia's largest private sector employer, with over 200,000 team members working across more than 3,700 stores and representing our four major retail brands—Woolworths supermarkets and Metro stores, Dan Murphy's and BWS liquor outlets, and Big W. The group's annual wage bill in Australia is close to $8 billion. Last year, Woolworths paid $688 million tax, equivalent to an effective annual tax rate of 30 per cent. We are proud of the role we play as a large employer, particularly for younger people who often start their working life within one of our stores. We also recognise that our size and scale as an employer comes with responsibilities and obligations on issues such as the future of work. Our team members are critical to our success and we strive to create an inclusive culture that supports, values and develops them. New South Wales is our home State, where we opened our very first store in 1924 in the Pitt Street arcade. Today in New South Wales we have more than 800 retail sites, five distribution centres and employee more than 60,000 team members, supporting more than $2 billion in wages. Woolworths has more than $3.7 billion property development investment over the next five years and New South Wales represents the largest area of investment, with more than $2.3 billion in projects scheduled creating 7,500 ongoing jobs. Around the globe, with Australia being no exception, retail is changing at the fastest pace we have seen in many decades. What our people do in 10 years' time will almost certainly be different from now. COVID has not created this trend, but it has most certainly accelerated what was already underway. Technological advances in automation, artificial intelligence [AI] and digital are transforming core retail processes, driving our industry forward and helping us to do a better job of meeting the changing needs of our customers. They also change the fundamental nature of the day-to-day work many of our team do, and over time we know that our team members will do fewer manual and repetitive tasks and more work that requires judgement, creativity and interpersonal skill. That is an exciting prospect on many levels, but we appreciate that it also creates uncertainty. In wanting to lead on this transition to a new way of working, we equally want to ensure that no team member is left behind by the wave of change that we are all inevitably riding. That is why, at the beginning of February this year, Woolworths announced plans to invest $50 million over the next three years to help equip our team with new skills and capabilities for the retail industry of the future. The Future of Work Fund will help us upskill, reskill and redeploy team members impacted by industry disruption and technological change. It will also underpin the launch of an online learning platform to offer team members easily accessible training, apprenticeship and mentoring support across Australia. We estimate it will fund access to training and reskilling for around 60,000 team members over three years. The spectre of technological change is often met with pessimism. The advent of self-service check-outs is a good example. When we first introduced them, many predicted it would lead to a major decline in employment in our stores—but that has not happened. When we completed the self-service in 2009 we employed 113,000 people in our Australian supermarkets. Today, we employ 140,000 and continue to grow. Indeed, the fastest-growing role in our business is that of the online personal shopper. At Christmas we had 25,000 of them hand-picking for our customers. Sometimes we forget that countries with the most automation—like Japan, for example—can enjoy some of the lowest rates of unemployment. SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE IMPACT OF TECHNOLOGICAL AND OTHER CHANGE ON THE FUTURE OF WORK AND WORKERS IN NEW SOUTH WALES Monday, 19 April 2021 Legislative Council - CORRECTED Page 3 Since we opened our first store in Sydney in 1924 Woolworths has offered employment opportunities to more than a million Australians. While much has changed in our business since the 1920s—indeed, throughout our 96-year history—we have provided rich work and career opportunities through countless waves of technological change. However, one thing has remained constant: People will be at the heart of our endeavour throughout. As we approach our centenary, the Future of Work Fund will help in setting us on the path to employ a million more Australians in the many years to come. Woolworths Group appreciates the opportunity to contribute to the Committee's work. We very much intend to play a constructive role in future deliberations designed to strengthen the policy architecture around this topic, starting with the actions we ourselves can take. At the outset, I note that we have attempted to bring a representative group before the Committee today and we will attempt to answer questions where we can.
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