1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4131

IN SENATE. The resolution was read, as follows: .ResolvecL, That the Secretary of the Senate :fu.rniah to the Senate in writing a re­ port showing the number, names, and salaries or compensation of all persons em­ FRIDAY, June 4, 1880. ployed in or about or in charge of the Senate library from June 1, 1879 to June 1, 1880, and the term of service or employment of e:wh person. The Senate met at eleven o'clock a. m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Mr. COCKRELL. I ask that the resolution be passed now. It is Rev.J.J.BULLocK,D.D. simply a matter of form. The J ou.rnal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. Mr. VOORHEES. Yes, let it be agreed to. REPORTS OF COMMTITEES. Mr. HILL, of Georgilli. We do not want to delay the matter. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there is no objection the Chair Mr. WITHERS, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was will put the question on agreeing to the resolution submitted by the referred the bill (S. No. 1521) granting a pension to David W. Combs, Senator from Missouri, [Mr. COCKRELL.] reported it without amendment, and submitted a report thereon ; The resolution was ·agreed to. which was ordered to be printed. Mr. CALL, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was referred BILL INTRODUCED. the petition of Cecil Clay, praying to be allowed an increase of pen­ Mr. BROWN asked, and by unanimous consent obtained, leave~ sion, submitted a report thereon, accompanied by a bill (S. No. 1815) introduce a bill (S. No. 1816) to authorize the Secretary of War to d~ granting a pension to Cecil Clay. liver to the governor of the State of Georgia, as a loan, one hundred The bill wa.a read twice by its title, and the report was ordered to and fifty stand of light breech-loading rifles, with equipments there­ be printed. for, for the use of the Middle Georgia Military and Agricultural Col­ Mr. WILLIAMS, from the Committee on Indian Affairs, to whom lege, at Milledgeville, Georgia; which was read twice by its title, and was referred the bill (S. No. 648) to enforce the ninth article of a referred to the Committee on Military Affairs. treaty made and concluded by and between the Government of the .ADDITIONAL POST-ROUTE BILL. United States and the Cherokee Nation of Indians on the 19th day of Jnly, A. D. 1866, and proclaimed by the President of the United Mr. MAXEY. The bill (S. No. 1771) to establish a post-route in States on the 11th day of August, A. D. 1866, reported it with an Missouri is pending before the Committee on Post-Offices and Post­ amendment. Roads. I desire to report that bill some day this week and put it on Mr. KIRKWOOD, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was its passage. I give this notice in order that Senators who are inter­ ested in having routes established may give the proper information referred the bill (H. R. No. 2407) granting a pension ~o Belinda Cortis, reported it with an amendment, and submitted a report thereon; to the committee so that their amendments may be appended to the whioh was ordered to be printed. bill. THORNTON SMITH. SENATE LIBRARY. Mr. WALLACE. Several days since I introduced a resolution ask­ Mr. VOORHEES. On the 2d of April a resolution was passed by ing the recall of the bill (S. No. 562) granting an in.crease of pension the Senate directing the Committee on the Library "to inquire into to Thornton Smith from the Honse of Representatives. It was sent the condition of the Senate library, and the force which has boon in there by error. I now move to reconsider the vote on the final pa-a­ charge of the same for the past six years and now, and whether any sage of the bill. increase of force is necessary, and if so, to what extent; and to re­ The PRESIDENT p1·0 tempore. The motion to reconsider will be port to the Senate the result of their investigation." The committee entered. have had that resolution under consideration, and having made a full ELECTION INVESTIGATION. examination, report that the Senate library is composed of four Mr. WALLACE. I call up the resolution I introduced on Tuesday rooms and of from twenty to twenty-five thousand volumes. There last, and ask that it may be considered. are nineteen thousand volumes in those four rooms, besides the reserve The PRESIDENT pro tempo1·e. The Senator from Pennsylvania in the basement. There is but one person in charge of the library; asks unanimous consent for the consideration of a resolution sub­ while in the House library there are a librarian, two assistants, and mitted by him, which will be read for information. two messengers, making a force of five for about the same work. The Chief Clerk read the following resolution, submitted by Mr. After a personal examination myself, going through the building WALLACE on the 1st instant : and examining its situation, I feel impelled by a sense of duty to re­ Buol-Pea, That the select committee to inquire into alleged frauds in the late elec­ port that the Senate librarian needs an assistant. On that subject tions be continued, with power to report at the next session of the Senate, and to I ask the Secretary to read a letter which at my request the libra­ file the reP?rts of th:e majority and minoi;ity in the c;>ffice of ~he Secretary of the Senate dunng vacation, when the same with the testimony taken shall be printed rian addressed to me on this subject. and the said committee shall have authority to sit during the recess of the Senate' The Chief Clerk read as follows: and shall possess during said recess all the powers and authority heretofore con~ UNITED STATES SENATE LIBRARY, ferred on it. Washington, June 3, 1880. The PRESIDENT pro temp01·e. Is there objection to the present DEAR Sm: In reply to your inquiry in regard to the fo~ce employed in the Sen­ com1ideration of the resolution Y ate library during the last six years I would state that it consisted of one librarian and.one lo.borer. Mr. INGALLS. There are two members of that committee, the The Senate library is now composed of four rooms, and contains about nineteen Senator from New Hampshire [Mr. .BLAIR] and the Senator from thousand volumes, not including the reserve which is kept in the file-room in the Massachusetts, [Mr. HOAR,] absent. I understood the Senator from basement of the Capitol In order to a proper disposition of the constantly in· Pennsylvania. the other day to say that this resolution met with their crea.sing number of books published by authority of Congress an additional room should be provided. During my incumbency, about thirteen months, over twenty­ approbation. If that is the case, of course I have no right to object. fivehundred volumes have been received and placed upon the shelves and a proper I asked that the resolution might lie over the other day, not know­ distribution made to the committee-rooms. ing whether it would be agreeable to the minority of the committee; The only assistance I have had and now get is the laborer assigned to the rooms. • The rapid growth of the library and the increased demands made upon it render but understanding from the Senator that it is, I have no objection to it essential, in order to meet the calls made upon it promptly and satisfactorily, the consideration of the resolution. that an assistant be granted. Mr. WALLACE. The reason for the continuance of the committee Respectfully, is that the minority have not completed the exr.mination of certain P. J. PIERCE, Librarian Unit,ecJ, States Senate. witnesses who are now before them, and it is desired that the com­ Hon. D. W. VoorumEs, mittee may be continued. I submitted this resolution in the terms Ohairmn,n Joint Oommittee on Lil>rary. in which it is now to both the Senator from Massachusetts and the Mr. VOORHEES. It is proper for me to state that the Senator Senator from New Hampshire, and it met their approbation. from Vermont [Mr. EDMU:NDS] differs in opinion with the majority The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the considera­ tion of the resolution Y The Chair h~rs none, and it is berore the of the committee on this subject, and is opposed to granting this as­ Senate. The question is on agreeing to the resolution. sistaince. I regret that I feel it my duty to call up the subject while The resolution was agreed to. he is absent, but I think he would throw no further light on the sub­ ject tbain is thrown on it by the statement of the librarian himself, POSTAL CONTRACTS OF BENJAMIN HOLL.ADAY. assisted by my own personal knowledge. I hope that the resolution :Mr. DAVIS, of West Virginia. I ask to have passed a resolution of offered by the Senator from Georgia, [Mr. HILL,] and I believe once inquiry, which is on the table, in reference to the Holladay claim. adopted, but on which the Senator from Missouri [Mr. COCKRELL] '!'he PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the consid­ entered a motion to reconsider, and which authorizes the Secretary eration of the resolution Y The Chair hears none, and the resolution of the Senate to appoint an assistant librarian, may now be adopted will be reported. finally by the Senate. . The Chief Clerk read the following resolution, submitted by Mr. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The report can only be considered DAVIS, of West Virginia, June 1, 1880: now by unanimous consent. .Resolved,, That the Postmaster-~neral be, and hereby is, directed to furnish to Mr. COCKRELL. Let the report lie over; it is not in writing; the Senate copies of any and all contract.

him, aside from the loss of his stock, by the injury snst.ained by the corn and de­ This is the amount named in the bill tention of the train. By reason of these losses Mr. Warren was reduced from a. Although the evidence in this case was, to use the lan,gnage of the Commissioner condition of independence, his profitable business was broken up, and he was forced in his report, '' clear and positive," the claim of 'V arren for consequential damages to take service at a small salary. was wholly disallowed, and only that for actual loss incurred nearly nine years ago The treaty between the United States and the Kiowa and Comanche tribes of taken into account. Indians, proclaimedA.ngnst 25, 1868, decla!lied that- "The claim has also been favorably reported upon four times by the Committee "If bad men among the Indians shall commit a wrong or depredation upon the on Indian Affairs of the Honse of Representatives, as shown by the printed repom person or property of any one, white, blook, or Indians, subject to the authority of of that body, but further action was never obtained, owing to adjournment before the United States and at peace therewith, the tribes herein named solemnly a,,.uree it could be reached. that they will, on proof made to their agent and notice by him, deliver up the wrong­ The committee also submit various other papers which throw light on the sub­ doer to the United States, to be tried and punished according to its laws, and in ject. case they willfnlly refuse so to do the person injured shall be reimbursed for his lo;is from the annuities or other moneys due or to become due to them under this The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered or other treaties made with the United States. And the President, on advising to be engrossed for a third reading, read the third time, and pa.ssed. with the Commissioner of Indian .Affairs. shall prescribe such rnles and regulations for ascertaining damages under the provisions of this article, as in his judgment JOHN ADAMS AND OTHERS. may be proper; but no enoh damages shall be adjusted anAdJk~ until thoroughly Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. I move to postpone all orders prior exrunined and passed upon by the Commissioner of Indian · and the Secretary to order of business No. 356, for the purpose of taking up Senate bill of the Interior; and no one sustaining loss while violating, or because of his vio­ lating, the provisions of this treaty or the laws of the United States, shall be re­ No.89. imbursed therefor." Mr. DAVIS, of West Virginia. What bill is thatf ' Precisely the same provision is contained in the treaty between the United Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. It is a bill for the relief of John States and the Cheyenne and .Arapahoe tribes of Indians, concluded October 28, Adams, William B. Clift, and others. 1867. The proof of Mr. Warren's claim under the rules and regulations prescribed is The PRESIDENT pro tenipore. The question is on the motion of of the most complete and ample description, and after examination the Secretary the Senator from Wisconsin, to postpone all orders prior to order of of the Interior allowed it to an amount, with subsequent accrued interest, corre­ business No. 356. · sponding to that named in this bill, and recommended its payment. The Indians charged with the robberies admitted them fully, and made partial restitution by The motion was agreed to. returning a number of the animals taken, but in a broken-down condition, and a The PRESIDENT pro tcmpore. Will theSenateproceed to thecon­ few others stolen from other sources and subsequently reclaimed from Warren by sideration of the bill named by the Senator from Wisconsin 7 their true owners. A.llowance for their value was duly made in the examination The motion was agreed to ; and the Senate, as in Committee of the of the claim by the Interior Department. Besides the punishment of the Kiowas as above cited, twenty of the Cheyennes, for complicity in that and other crimes, Whole, proceeded to consider the bill (S. No. 89) for the relief of John were arrested and confined at Fort Marion, Florida, until 1878. None of these Adams, William B. Clift, David Dunseath, William Killinger, J. F. captives were voluntarily surrendered by their tribes under the treaties, nor were Scott, administrator of the estate of Obediah Scott, decea.aed, Davis any others either captured or surrendered, nor was any further restitution made C. Peak, Charles Linderman, James Linnane, Patrick Carey, John for the loss. The committee therefore recommend the passage of the bill. McMahon, and James Gorman, administrator of the estate of Patrick Gorman, deceased. Mr. PENDLETON. Under the statements made in the report I The bill was reported from the Committee on Claims with amend­ think there can be no doubt in the mind of any Senator as to the ments. liability of these Indians to make good out of their annuities the The first amendment was, in line 5, after the word "persons," to losses that have been sustained by Mr. Warren. The claims were pre­ insert ''or their legal representatives ; " so as to read: sented to the Department and very closely scrutinized, in. accordance That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized to pay, out with the provisions of the treaty which have just been read. In of any money in the Treasury not othe1·wise appropriated, to the followin~ per­ order that the Senate may understand the rigid rule applied in scaling sons, or their legal representatives, the following sums in full for sernces in the this claim, I ask that the Secretary may read a portion of the supple­ United States naval service during the late war. mental report in this case which was made on the 28th day of May, The amendment was agreed to. 1880, which will give to the Senate the information as to the mode The next amendment was, in. line 19, before "Peak," to strike out by which the amount ascertained in. the bill has been reached by the "C ; " so as to read "Davis Peak." Department of the Interior under the regulations adopted by the Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. Davis Peak is the name of the President in conformity with the provisions of the treaty. man. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. What portion does the Senator wish The PRESIDENT pro tcmpore. That is a clerical amendment, which to have read f will be made, if there be no objection. Mr. PENDLETON. I wish to have the supplemental report read The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the amend­ which I send to the desk. ments were concurred in. The PRESIDENT pro tenip<>re. The whole supplemental report f The bill waa ordered to be engrossed for a third reading, read the Mr. PENDLETON. No, the first page of it. The statements from third time, and passed. the Interior Department fortifying the conclusions of the committee The title was amended by striking out the letter '' C" between are appended to the report, but I do not ask that they shall be read "Davis" and "Peak." unless some Senator asks that that be done. The Chief Clerk read the following supplemental report, submitted NAVAL SOLICITOR AND JUDGE-ADVOCATE-GENERAL. by Mr. PENDLETON from the Committee on Indian Affairs May 28, 1880: Mr. McPHERSON. I move to postpone all orders prior to order ot On P.~~es 5 and 6 of the report of the Committee on Indian .A.ft'a.irs u:pon bill S. No. business No. 753, in ~der to proceed to the consideration of Honse 1254 wi.u be found an itemized statement of the loss alleged by claimant t-0 have bill No. 2788. been inflicted by the Comanche and Kiowa Indians, amounting to $29, 732.50. The motion was agreed to. On page 6 of the report there is an itemized statement of the loss alleged to have been mfilcted by the Cheyenne Indians, making an aggregate of $10,352.50. The PRESIDENT pro ternpore. Will the Senate proceed to the con­ On the 30th of April, 1874, the House of Representatives, by resolution, called sideration of the bill 'I upon the Secretary of the Interior for a list of all claims for losses through depre­ The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the dations committed. by Indiana presented to the Department for ten years past. Whole, proceeded to consider the bill (H. R. No. 2788) to authorize In answer to that resolution the Secretary of the Interior, in a letter dated .Jan­ uary 9, 1875, found in Executive Document No. 65, Forty-fifth Congress, second the President to appoint an officer of the Navy or the .Marine Qorps session, transmitted a list of such claims, with t.he action of the Department thereon to perform the duties of solicitor and judge-advocate-general, &c., where action had been taken. and to fix the rank and pay of such officer. · By reference to pages 34 and 35 of that document, (No. 138,) it will be found that Mr. COCKRELL. Is there a. report with this bill 'I the claim of Henry Warren against the Comanches and Kiowas for $29, 732.50 was allowed for $11,852.50, and his claim against the Cheyennes for 10,352.50 was al­ The PRESIDENT p1·0 tempore. There is no report, as the Chair is lowed for e4,015. informed. By reference to the report of the Commissioner of Indian .Affairs, Edward P. Mr. McPHERSON. I will say to the Senator that there is a letter Smith, upon this case, it will befonnd that the amount a.warded was reached in from -the Secretary of the Navy on the whole question, and I ask per­ this way: mission to have the letter read, if the Sena.tor from Missouri desires. Claim against Comanches and Kiowas .•••••..••. ------·--··------$'29, 732 50 Reject amount claimed for damages by detention, loss of busi- Mr. COCKRELL. I desire to hear it. ness, &c .•.•.•.• - .. - .....••...... ••• - •.•• -• . . . . • • • • • . . . . . $15, 000 00 The PRESIDENT pro tenipore. The amendment of the committee Deduct for stock recovered . -- .. --- .•••.•...•.•...... __ .. . 2, 880 00 will first be reported. 17, 880 00 The CHIEF CLERK. In line 4, after the word "appoint," the Com­ Leaving amount awarded .•••••..•••• ------·-·----·----- 11, 852 50 mittee on Naval Affairs propose to insert "£01 the term of four years." By report of the same Commissioner it will be found that the amount awarded in The amendment waa agreed to. the Cheyenne claim was reached as follows: The PRESIDE~ p1·0 ternp~re. The paper will be read, if there be A.mount of loss cla.imed ..•... -----· ...••. -----·- ••..•...... •..•••••.. __ $10, 352 00 no objection. The Chief Clerk read as follows: A.mount allowed for stock driven off and killed (page 6 of report)...... 4, 375 00 NAVY DEPARTMIDIT, For loss of corn and general damage ...•... ------· .•.••. _... 608 00 Washington, Jam:uary 7, 1880. Sm: I have the honor to inclose herewith Honse bill No. 2788, which was intro­ Making total of•••••••••••• •••o•o •• U • •••• •• • •••• o o oo o oO o o •••• ""' 4, 975 00 duced at my request by Mr. WBITI'HO!Th"E, chairman of the Committee on Naval Deduct for stock recovered .... ••••.• ______..•••• ------·· ...••••••• __ 960 oo Affairs of the H"<>use, and to ask that a similar bill may be introduced in the Sen­ ate. Leaving amount awarded ...... - ...... ------···.:.. 4, 015 00 In anticipation of such introduction I take the liberty of expressing my views on the subject as follows: ' The amount of award in Comanche and Kiowa claim ...•.... _..• _..... 11, 852 50 This bill (H. R. No. 2788) proposes to authorize the President to appoint, by and A.nd amount allowed on Cheyenne claim············-··-··--·------··- 4, 015 00 with the advice and e<>nsent of the Senate, from the officers of the Navy or the Marine Corps, a judge-advocate-general of the Navy, with the rank, pay, and Makingtotal of ••••••..••••••••••.••..••.•.••••.••••••.•...•...•. 15,867 50 allowances of a captam in the Navy, or a colonel in the .Marine Corps, as the case 4134 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 4, may be; that the offico of the judp;e-arlvocate-general shall be in tho Navy Depart­ courts-martial 'I I happen to be personally acquainted with a lieuten­ ment, where he shall, under the direction of 1.he Secretary of the Navy, receive, revise, and have recorded the proceedings of all courts-martial, courts of inquiry, ant in the Navy who has been so detailed. and boards for the examination of officers for retirement and ~motion in the M.r. McPHERSON. The Senator from Delaware cites the case of Navy and Marine Corps, and examine all questions of law, regulations, and prac­ an officer low down on the list who receives a very small compensa­ tice a.rising therein, and report the same with recommendations to the Secretary; tion. If such an officer were chosen for this place I admit the bill and also examine matters generally involving questions of law or regulations, and would increa-se his pay; but if that officer is competent to perform claims presented to theNavy Department for investig~on, and submit reports and recommendations thereon for the information and action of the Secretary of the the duty which would devolve on an officer of this character, I think he should be entitled to some additional pay for that service; and N~ object of this bill is to provide for the appointlllent by authority of law of a the bill does not increase the pay one-half of what it would be neces­ competent officer of the Navy or Marine Corps to discbar~e t.he important duties of judge-advocate-general of the Navy as well as tho duties which were formerly sary to allow in case a person was taken from civil life. We have performed by the naval solicitor. But it is not proposed to revive the office of officers entirely competent to perform this service; in fact they have naval solicitor, which, as it existed in connection with the Department of Justice been performing this service and have been receiving no additional up to the year 1878, when it wa.s abolished, was not suited to the requirements of pay. I think they are entitled to additional pay; and I know of no the military or naval service. Tho necessity of having an officer familiar with the practice of courts-martial, way in which economy can be carried into practice more than by the rules, regulations, and co.stoms of the Navy, of practical experience in the taking an officer from the .Marine Corps or Navy, wherever he may naval service, and with proper legal attainments to discharge the duties of judge­ be found, who is fully competent to perform these duties. The pay the advocate-general, has been recognized by preceding administrations of this Depart­ bill proposes to give is as little as could be given to an officer of this me:i;it ~ and in the absence of a provision of law for that office such as is contem­ plaooa. by this bill the difficulty has been partially met by the temporary detail responsibility. of a suitable officer by the Secretary of the Navy to act in that capacity. M.r. JONES, of Florida. I have had occasion to look into this sub­ In view of the changes to which such office is subjected by these temporary ject a little; and I am very well convinced that there is a great assignments, it is important and necessary to the best interests of this branch of necessity for an officer of this rank in the Navy Department at the the public service that Congress should fix a status for such officer by a provision for said oifice for the Navy analogoo.s to that which has long been established in present time, a man who can bring to that position something beyond the Army. There can be no question as to the propriety of such a measure as is the average ability; and some diecretion ought to be given to the presented in this bill, and the necessity for such an officer to systematize the de­ Secretary of the Navy to make a proper selection. It is not every tails of administration of law andj0$tice in the Navy is regarded as equally urgent with that of a similar position already established for the military service under man who can fill this position. On the Naval Committee we have the War Department. Public business of the same character devolvin~ upon the occasion every week to refer matters to the Department for its opinion; War Department is discharged by an officer of the Army under the direction of and it requires some skill on the part of the incumbent of that office the Secretary of War, who bolds the position of Judge-Advocate-General, with the and experience to enable him to discharge his duties. Our commit­ rank and pay of a higher relative ~rade than that proposed by this bill for the officer who may be appointed to discharge similar duties as jo.dge-advocate-gen­ tee find constant occasion to call on the Department in regard to ap­ eral of the Navy, under the direction of the Secretary of .the Navy. plications, through which we have to spell our way if we can, looking The peculiar nature of the duties pertaining to that office in tile Navy Depart­ into the merits of applications for restoration to the naval service ment requires of the officer appointed to it an acquaintance with the practical ap­ and involving nice questions of law; and we have not the time to go plication of the law and regulations to the rank, grades, ratings, &c., of the various classes of officers and enlisted men of the naval .service, and renders it eminently into all those things. It is necessary that there should be an officer proper and advisable that provision be thus made for the appointment of saoh an there to prepare the cases and send them to the committee with the officer to aid the Secretary in transacting this branch of the public business de­ opinion of the Department in regard to them, so that we may act in­ volving upon the Department, and to which he, in the midst of other varied and telligently. important duties, cannot be expected to give the attention that its importance de­ mands. If the Secretary of the Navy can :find in the Marine Corps an offi­ Impressed with the necessity of the proposed legislation in relation to the office cer of sufficient capacity to fill this place properly, I am for one will­ of judge-advocate-general of th'e Navy, I respectfully com.mend the provisions ing that he shall do it. If not, he can go to the Navy list. If yon of the bill iR its present form to the favorable consideration of the Uommittee on go outside of the Navy and Marine Corps and go to civil life, you Naval Affairs, and earnestly recommend its passage by Congress. Very respectfully, would have to provide for the officer a distinct salary of four or five R. W. THOMPSON, thousand dollars a year. The little increase that would be required Hon. J. R. M cPHERSON, Secretmry of the Navy. in this case would not be much considering the great advantages re­ Ohairman of the Oommittee on Nava}, .Affairs, sulting from the appointment. United St.ates Senate. I would add, moreover, that this bill has impressed itself on the The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the amend­ House, and they have pa8Sed the bill that has been recommended by ment was concurred in. the Naval Committee of the Senate. Mr. KERNAN. I desire to understand this bill. As I understand The amendment was ordered to be engrossed, and the bill to be now there can be assigned to the duties of this office a captain ofthe read a third time. Navy. He would be familiar with the proceedings of courts-martial, The bill was read the third time, and passed. and receive the same pay he now gets ; but this bill allows also an officer to be taken from the Marine Corps. I have been told that the P. P. POWELL. officer now doing the duty gets $2,200, and this bill would allow Mr. BURNSIDE I move to lay aside all prior orders with a view 1,800 more. It is thus adding $1,800 to the expense for which the of taking up order of business No. 404, being Honse bill No. 4439. business can be done by assigning a captain in the Navy. I ask the The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Rhode Island Senator from New Jersey if I am right in that viewf moves to postpone all orders prior to order of business No. 404. Mr. McPHERSON. I understand that undet- this proposed statute The motion was agreed to.. the Secretary of the Navy can appoint an officer of the Navy or Ma­ The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Rhode Island rine Corps to this position. At present the Secretary assigns some now moves that the Senate proceed to the consideration of House bill one to this duty as if it were simply a clerkship in the Department No. 4439. under the Secretary of the Navy. Prior to the act of June 19, 1878, The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, a-a in Committee of the he had an officer called a naval solicitor, but the appropriation bill Whole, proceeded to consider the bill (H. R. No. 4439) to remove the of that year failed to make an appropriation for the payment of that disabilities of Sergeant P. P. Powell, Sixth Regiment United States officer, and ill fact the office was abolished by the appropriation bill Cavalry. of that year. The preamble recites that Sergeant P. P. Powell, Sixth Regiment The purpose of this bill is to allow the Secretary to take an officer United States Cavalry, has served faithfully as a private soldier and of the Marine Corps or of the Navy for the position of naval judge­ non-commissioned officer in the Army of the United States since Oc­ advocate-general, and there can be found in both the Marine Corps tober Z'l, 1875, and that he is debarred from all hope of promotion by and the Navy officers who are entirely competent to perform this the provision.a of section 1218 of the Revised Statutes, therefore the service that is required by the Secretary of the Navy. It authorizes bill removes his disabilities under that section. him to detail an officer for that purpose. It makes that officer a bu­ The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered reau officer in the same sense as the heads of the other bureaus of the to a third reading, read the third time, and passed. Navy Department are to-day. For instance, the head of the Bureau of Equipment and Recruiting, the head of the Bureau of Ordnance, · W. F. NELSON. and the heads of the other bureaus are taken from the body of the M.r. SAULSBURY. I deiire to call up Senate bill No. 281, order of Navy. This officer is to be taken in the same way, and serve in that business No. 309. capacity for a term of four years, at which time he goes back again The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Delaware moves into his corps and takes the same rank he held when he was appointed to postpone all orders prior to order of business No. 309. to this position. The motion was agreed to. The pay proposed here is the pay of colonel in the Marine Corps or The PRESIDENT p1·0 tempore. The Senator from Delaware now of a captain in the Na.vy. If a colonel in the Marine Corps is taken moves to proceed to the consideration of Senate bill No. 281. it will not increase his pay one single dollar; it will not add to the The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the expense of the Department as it would if you took a man from civil Whole, proceeded to consider the bill (S. No. 281) for the relief of life with a salary, I suppose, of $4,000 or $5,000 a yea.r, and you would Emma G. Nelson, executrix, and Aaron H. Nelson, execut or, of the es­ not secure the necessary talent at a much less sum. There are in the tate of W. F. Nelson, deceased. It proposes to pay to Emma G. Nel­ Navy and Marine Corps officers well fitted for this service. Let one son, executrix, and Aaron H. Nelson, executor, of the estate of W. F. of them be appointed for this limited term, and at the end of four Nelson, deceased, late chaplain United States Army, $500.26, in full yea:BS he goes back again into the ranks. payment for rent of quarters hired by him while stationed at Wash­ M.r. SAULSBURY. Is it not now in the power of the Secretary of ington Park United States general hospital, Cincinnati, Ohio, between the Navy to detail officers to act as judge-advocates before naval the 9th of April, 1864, and the 2 th of July, 1865. 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 41:35

The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered dred and sixty-one and seventy-one hundredths" be inserted in lieu t~ereof, so that the bill will merely authorize the sale of the land which was authonzed to be sold to be engrossed for a third reading, read the third time, and passed. by the act of June 10, 1872. Ol\IAHA INDIAN RESERVATION. I am of the opinion that snob a bill as tho one under consideration, amended as above suggested, should be passed. Mr. SAUNDERS. I move to laid aside all orders prior to order of The lett.er of Senator SAUNDERS and inclosure are herewith returned. business No. 188, whioh is Senate bill No. 1136. Very respectfully, your obedient servant, Mr. CALL. I ask the Senate not to agree to the motion of my R. E. TROWBRIDGE, friend from Nebraska to take up that bill, owing to the fact thatthere Oommissioner. is upon the Calendar of the Senate a House bill of very great impor­ The honorable the SECRETARY OF THE lX-fERIOR. tance to the people of my State which has been pending here for a Mr. COCKRELL. Why was not the bill amended as recommended long time, and whioh will take but a very few minutes to paes. in the letter? Mr. SAUNDERS. I will state to the Senator from Florida that this Mr. SAUNDERS. The proposition I make to the Senate is to change bill has been considered in the Senate and was laid aside informally. the figures a.a suggested. I offer that amendment. With that amend­ Mr. CALL. If the bill will take no time I shall not interpose. ment the Department recommend it. In place of 50,000 acres the Mr. SAUNDERS. It can be passed in five minutes. amount should be 49,461.71. That is the recommendation of the In­ Mr. CALL. Very well. terior Department. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the motion of Mr. COCKRELL. Why not insert in the bill the amendment rec­ tho Senator from Nebraska, to postpone all orders prior to order of ommended by the Secretary f He says that the land should be business No. 188. offered for sale under the former act. Let that be put in, and then The motion wa.s agreed to. there will be no trouble about it. The PRESIDENT pro tem.pore. The Senator from Nebraska now Mr. SAUNDERS. They state some changes which should be made moves to take up for consideration Senate bill No. 1136. in the other bill, and approve of the changes. They only ask that The motion was agreed to ; and the Senate, as in Committee of the this chango shall be made in the figures in the amount to be surveyed Whole, resumed the consideration of the bill (S. No.1136) to provide under this bill. That is all they ask, and that is the amendment I for the sale of a portion of the reservation of the Omaha tribe of In­ present to the Senate, that the amount be changed from fifty thousand dians. acres to conform to what the Interior Department have recommended, Mr. COCKRELL. I should like to hear some explanation of this 49,461.71 acres. That has already been surveyed. With that amend­ bill. There are some wonderfulfeatures in it. Here is a proposition ment they recommend the passage of the bill. to sell a whole Indian reservation for cash in one body. Mr. KIRKWOOD. I should be glad to have the Senator from Ne­ Mr. SAUNDERS. The bill was before the Senate some time ago, braska explain the necessity or the propriety of offering this land for and was laid aside at the time because one Senator rose and wanted sale in one body Y to know what the Indian Department said about it. I have letters Mr. SAUNDERS. It is offered to be sold in either way. It can be from the Seoretary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian sold in smaller tracts or can be sold in one body-- Affairs stating that this bill is proper and ought to be passed with Mr. McDONALD. Fifty thousand acres in one body Y one amendment, which I will state. The bill provides fQr a survey Mr. KIRKWOOD. I cannot give my consent to such a proposition. and sale of fifty thousand acres. There was a bill passed some eight Mr. SAUNDERS. Let me state the reason for. it. A bill was passed years ago authorizing the sale of this land, and only about three some seven or eight years ago authorizing it to be sold in smaller hundred a-Otes of land were sold under it. The Secretary now recom­ tracts, but people would not go and settle around the Indians when mends that we deduct that from this bill Ro that the survey may they could get lands as cheap or cheaper off a distance from them. stand as it is, 49,461.71 acres instead of fifty thousand acres. With The object now js that we may ~et, if possible, persons to emigrate this amendment the Secretary recommends the passage of the bill in colonies and go and make their own settlements where they will Mr. ALLISON. I ask the Senator from Nebraska to have the letter not be isolated from society. The land was offered at that time and of the Secretary of the Interior approving this mode of sale sent up only three hundred acres were sold at the very same figures we put and read at the desk. in this bill now, because people would not go there and settle; they Mr. McDONALD. What committee does this bill come from! ·would not buy at two dollars and a half an acre as a matter of specu­ Mr. SAUNDERS. The Committee on Indian Affairs. Here are the lation, and they would not to-day; but if they could settle on it letters that came from the Interior Department, and I send them to together they would. the desk and ask that they be read. We put into this bill first that it may be taken up in smaller tracts The Chief Clerk read as follows: if the people desire to do so, but if they do not, then it can be sold DEPARTME~T OF THE h~RIOR, Washington, April 5, 1880. as a body so that the land can be settled and the money put out on Sm: I have the honor to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated March 8, 1880, interest for the Indians. The Indians want the land sold. We know inclosing S. No. 1136, " to provide for tlle sale of a portion of the reservation of the that these Indians now are taking an advance step in civilization. Omaha tribe of Indians," and requesting the views of this Department as to its They are raising large crops of wheat and corn, and they want this money put out at interest so that they can have the interest to use pa:::Cfo~ed please :find letters from the Commissioner of Indian .A..ffil.irs, (dat.ed the 2d instant,) to whom the subject was referred. The Department concurs in the in improving their farms. They are very desirous to have the land views of the Commissioner on the bill in question. sold. They even would have it sold at a lower figure than this bill Very respectfully, names if it cannot be sold at that. But it is limited here to $2.50 an C. SCHURZ, SecretarrJ. acre on an average. The only reason for this is just what I have Hon. A. SAUI\l>ER.S, United States Senate. stated to the Senate, that if they cannot sell it in smaller' tracts, they want to have a colonv take it and settle it up. It is av ry large tract DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, of country without any settlements, and we want it settled and the OFFICE OF INDIAN AFFAlllS, Indians want the land sold and want the money on interest. Washington, April 2, 1880. Mr. ALLISON. Mr. President, I think there ought to be an amend­ Sm: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt, by your reference, of a letter ment. In lines 30 and 31 I move to strike out the words "for separate dated the 8th ultimo from Hon. A. SAUNDERS, United States Senate, in which he incloses Senate bill No. 1136, providing for the sale of a. portion of the Omaha Jn. tracts/' This bill provides that if this land shall be sold in separate dian reservation in Nebraska., and requests the opinion of the Department as to the tracts it shall not be sold at less than the aggregate appraised value propriety of its passage. nor less than $1.25 an acre. I think if it is sold in a body it ought In rep1y, I have to state that the provisions of this bill are the same, with one or to bring at least $1.25 an acre, as I am told that a railway is about to two inconsiderable exceptions, as that portion of the act of Congress approved June 10, 1872, (17 Statutes, page 391,) which relates to the Omaha Indians. be built in the neighborhood of this reservation, and possibly across The bill contains the following sentence, commencing on line 20 and ending on this fifty thousand acres of land in a very short time, and I think it line 26, which is not found in the act, viz : "In making offers for the entire body will be easy to get at least $1.25 an acre for it if it should be sold in they may be made either for all cash in hand or with time as a condition ; that is, a lump of tifty thousand acres. a proposition may be received to purchase the whole tract and to pay one-sixth part at the time of purchase, and the balance in five equal annual payments, the Mr. DAVIS, of Illinois. I am utterly opposed to selling in a single deferred p,ayments to bear interest at the rate of 6 per cent., which shall be paid body fifty thousand acres of land. Who can buy fifty thousand acres annually. • In lines 31 and 32 of the bill the words "agp-egate appraised •alne of of land but a rich man T Plenty of people can buy a quarter section the same " are inserted in lieu of the "appraised value of such tract; " and the fol. of land, but very few people can buy fifty thousand acres of land. lowing clause, after the words "twenty-five cents per acre," is in the act but not in the bill, viz: "Or for the entire tract which shall be less than the aggregate ap· Nobody will buy this fifty thousand acres of land unless he is a spec­ praised value of the same, nor less than $l.25 par acre." ulator and wants to sell to individuals who may purchase forty, The proceede of the sale of the land were, by the provisions of the act, to be eighty, or one hundred and sixty acres. I think the policy wrong placed to the credit of the Indians on the books of the Treasury and bear interest entirely. Besides that, the Indians will not realize as much for it if at the rate of 5 per cent. p er annum. The bill reduces the interest to 4 per cent. it is soid in a body as if it were sold in quarter sections. pe~~;:dmg of the last proviso in the first section of the bill is a little different Mr. SAUNDERS. The Senator is very much mistaken; he has not from the corresponding proviso in the act, but both are substantially the same. read the bill carefully. The same amount is to be paid in the one These proposed changes in the old law appear to be proper and n ecessary. The lands in question were sm·veyed m 1866 and 1867, and I am not now awaro case as in the other. Elf any reason for resurveying them, bnt as the bill merely authorizes the Secre­ Mr. DAVIS, of Illinois. If this tract is divided into forty, eighty, tary of the Interior to cause the lands "to be surveyed if necessary," I see no ob· and one-hundred-and-sixty acre parcels &nd it is known that there jection to it on thi8 account. is t railroad going within the vicinity it will bring double a dollar The portion of the Omaha reservation which was set off to be sold under the act of June 10, 1872, contained 49, 762.43 acres, and only 300.72 acres thereof were sold. and a quarter an acre. The Government when it grants lands to :I therefore respeotfullyrecommend that theword.s "fifty thousand "in the seventh railr ads sells those which it reserves at two and a half dollars an aection of the bill be stricken out. and the words ' ' forty.nine thousand fonr bun. acre- - 4136 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 4,

Mr. SAUNDERS. Right there let me say it must bring a dollar upon that reservation, and those settlements run along that part of and a. half an acre. The land cannot be sold for less than a dollar the tract which is occupied by the Otoe Indians themselves. and a. quarter and the n.vera.ge must be the appraisement, two dol­ Mr. SAUNDERS. I do not know how one can go on a reservation lars and a half an acre. and become a homesteader ; we prevent that by law. It can only be Mr. DAVIS, of Illinois. I do not want any one person to have a by an application of some kind that it could be done. No man has a chance to get hold of fifty thousand acres of land. right to go on a reserve and settle; and consequently it cannot be Mr. INGALLS. The policy of the Government with reference to sold to an actual settler. the public domain is too well established by an unbroken series of Mr. PADDOCK. The law under which the Otoe reservation was precedents, now running through many years, to admit such a de­ disposed of required that it should be turned over by the Indian Office parture as is proposed by this bill. In every other measure of this to the General Land Office, and the local land officers were authorized kind that has been before the Senate since I have been a. member it to sell it to actual settlers only who should make a filing upon the has uniformly been provided that where Indian reservations a.re to particular tract that they proposed to settle on, and a probationary be relinquished, surveyed, and sold the land should be disposed o:C to period of six months was allowed to them in which to perfect their actual settlers under the homestead or pre-emption laws in tracts of filing and make their first payment. I think such a practice as that is a one hundred and sixty acres each. very safe one and a very correct one. I am very anxious for the sale of This reservation lies in the most fertile and most densely populated this reservation. I think it to be a very important matter, but I de­ portion of Nebraska. If it is not already, it is certain to be in the sire to have it done in such a way as will be most conducive to the immediate future, immensely valuable; and to permit of its disposition interests of the settlers of the State and of the Indians M well. under terms that will allow the whole tract to go into the possession of Mr. SAUNDERS. I fully agree with my colleague on the principle a· single person or corporation would be a violent departure from the he alludes to. well-recognized and long-established policy of the Government. Mr. KERNAN. I do not think we are able to act on this bill in­ I did not concur with this bill when it was before the committee. telligently; and if I can have the assent of the gentleman in charge, I shall oppose it in every form so long as it is before the Senate in I move that the bill be recommitted to the Committee on Indian its present position, and I trust the Senator from Nebraska will strike Affairs that they may examine it further and make a report. out this obnoxious provision and allow the land to be sold (because Mr. McDONALD. I think that it had better be referred to the I think it ought to be sold for the benefit of the Indians and the Committee on Public Lands. whites) in accordance with the terms that have been employed in Mr. KERNAN. Very wen. regard to the sale of all other Indian reservations. If he will make The PRESIDING OFFICER,(Mr.FERRY in the chair.) It is moved that amAndment, I will consent to it. If he insists upon the passage that the bill be referred to the Committee on Public Lands. of the bill in its present form, I shall move that it be recommitted to Mr. PADDOCK. I hope the bill will not be recommitted. It strikes the Committee on Indian Affairs. me it can be amended very readily in the Senate. Mr. SAUNDERS. I am not tenacious, I will say, in regard to this Mr. SAUNDERS. I am willing to strike out all that part of the provision. I want the land sold; that is, I know the Indians want bill which alludes to the sale of the land in one body, and there is it sold. I thought this bill met with the approbation of every mem­ certainly no objection to any other part ; there has been none in com­ ber of the Committee on Indian Affairs. I see now that I was mis­ mittee; tB.ere has been none here expressed. I am willing to strike taken in that. I am tiorry that I have presented the bill as one which out that part providing for the sale of it in one body. If the Sena­ came from the committee unanimously, as I thought, with a recom­ tor from New York will withdraw his motion, I will move ~at amend­ mendation that it pass in that form; but I suppose some change has ment. come over the minds of some of the Senators on this subject, and Mr. KERNAN. I withdraw it. probably for the better. I do not care about that. Mr. SAUNDERS. I move to strike out all that part which alludes The bill provides : to the sale of the land in one body. After the surve:y and appraisement of said lands as herein provided, the Sec­ Mr. INGALLS. The Senator from Nebraska undoubtedly means retary of the Interior shall be, and hereby is, authorized to offer the same for sale well; but the bill cannot be amended in that way. That is alto­ for cash in hand; and sealed proposals, duly invited by public advertisements, gether too indefinite. The Senator from Nebraska must indicate the shall be received for the same for tracts not exceeding one hundred and sixty acres. lines and words and language he desires to omit from the bill, so that each, and also for the entire body offered. we can ascertain what shape it will be in after his amendment has If it be the mind of the Senate to strike out these laat words, I do been agreed to. not care to retain them. I want simply a bill passed that will give Mr. SAUNDERS. In line 20 of section 1 begins this clause: an opportunity to sell these lands, so that they may be improved. And also for the entire body offered. In making offers for the entire body they The Indians want the money, and the people want the land; and the may be made either for all cash in hand or with time as a condition; that is, a. terms of the uill are such that no possible advantage can be taken of proposition may be received to purchase the whole tract and to pay one-sixth part at the time of purchase, and the balance in five equal annual payments, the de­ the Indians as to the value of the land. Appraisers are to be sworn ferred payments to bear interest at the rate of 6 per cent., which shall be paid an­ before they act on this matter; they are to give their opinion as to nually. The Secretary of the Interior shall be, and hereby is, authorized to accept the value of the land, but it is not to be sold for less, on the average, ~:J~J'~:1~~~ :~:tefu~h:Z-~~r~~t~~ ~f~~~!~.for separate tracts, whichever than 2.50 an acre. I care very little a.boat this myself, for I had hoped a settlement I move to strike out all that, and also- might be made in some other way; still I think it can be made in Provided, That no bid for separate tra-0ts shall be accepted which may be less this way quicker than in any other. I am willing, however, to yield than the aggregate appraised value of the same, nor less than 1.25 per acre. something to satisfy gentlemen who think possibly this land may I move to strike out all after the word "ea-0h," in line 20, down to fall into the hands of one individual under this bill. I have no fear and including the word " acre," in line 33. of it myself; but because they fear it I am willing to strike out the Mr. McDONALD. I move that the bill and pending amendments provision as to selling in an entire body and provide that bids shall be referred to the Committee on Public Lands. be received for tracts not exceeding one hundred and sixty acres. Mr. INGALLS. This bill did not emanate from the Committee on We are willing to try it at that, and if it does not succeed we can only Public Lands, and I think if the Senator from Indiana will deliberate come back to Congress at some other time and ask for an amended for one moment he will not be willing to take this bill away from the bill. I am willing myself to strike out the words " and also for the Committee on Indian Affairs and submit it to another committee. entire body offered," and leave only the provision that bids shall be Mr. McDONALD. I will modify my motion. I move to recommit received for tracts not exceeding one hundred and sixty acres. the bill to the Committee on Indian Affairs. Mr. INGALLS. Will the Senator indicate the portion he desires Mr. BOOTH. I shall vote for this motion. I am very unwilling to to have stricken out Y see the general policy of this Government in regard to the public Mr. SAUNDERS. On page 2, line 20, the words "and also for the lands violated in any degree, and to do so in my mind would require entire body offered." Let those words be stricken out. an overriding necessity. I think the true policy that should be Mr. PADDOCK. I shouldliketoinquire of my colleague if there is adopted in this bill would be that the Government of the United any provision in the bill requiring that the sales of separate tracts or States should buy this land at what it is worth, and then offer it to small tracts shall be to actual settlers. I have not had an opportunity actual settlers under the pre-emption law, and I know of no other way to examine the bill latterly ; but it is my impression that the princi­ in which the rights of settlers can be so well established and the ple which has obtained more recently in the disposition of Indian rights of the Indians also. In fact, I know of no other way in which reservations, notably in the case of the Otoe reservation in the south­ it can be done at all, and I hope the Committee on I~dian Affairs will ern part of our State, should be applied to this bill; that is, if the embody this suggestion in the bill they shall report. land is to be sold, and certainly it ought to be sold for the benefit of The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Indiana moves the Indians and the State as well. If it is to be sold, I think the pre­ that the bill and all pendin!f amendments be recommitted to the Com­ emptive principle or something kindred to it should be adopted in mittee on Indian Affairs. regard to the land. Mr. COCKRELL. I hope' the motion of the Senator from Indiana Mr. SAUNDERS. I will state to my colleague that there is no such will prevail, and I now destre to call the attention of the committee, provision. There are few people who want to go and settle near these when this bill shall be recommitted, to 1.h~ law of June 10, 1872. There Indians. is an act for the relief of certain tribes of Indians in the northern super­ Mr. PAD DOCK. I desire to state in reference to the Otoe reserva­ intendency: that act is in full force, and why this exceptional legis­ tion, the sale of a part of which was authorized by an act passed a lation Y That act has not ceased to exist. The Secretary of the In- · few years ago, that in the caae of that reservation, a part of which terior recommends that this bill shall be made to conform to that act is in my own county, the best settled district of the county now is which is now a law. 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4137

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the motion to The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the amend­ recommit the bill, with the pending amendments, to the Committee ment was concurred in. on Indian Affairs. The bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading, read the The motion was agreed to. third time, and passed. SAMUEL I. GUSTrn. PRISCILLA WATSON. Mr. SLATER. I move to lay aside all orders prior to order of busi­ Mr. HILL, of Georgia. I move to postpone all prior orders and take ness No. 509, being Senate bill No. 452. up order of business No. 285, being Senate bill No. 549. The PRESIDENT pro ternpore. The Senator from Oregon moves to The PRESIDEN'l' pro tempo1·e. The Senator from Georgia moves to postpone all orders prior to order of business No. 509. postpone all orders prior to order of business No. 285. The motion was agreed to. The motion was agreed to. The PRESIDENT p1·0 ternpore. The Senator from Oregon now The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Georgia now moves moves that the Senate proceed to the consideration of Senate bill that the Senate proceed to the consideration of Senate bill No. 549. No. 452. The motion was agreed to; and the bill (S. No. 549) for the relief of The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, aa in Committee of the Samuel I. Gustin was considered as in Committee of the Whole. Whole, proceeded to consider the bill (S. No. 452) for the relief of The bill was read. Priscilla Watson. It authorizes Priscilla Watson, at any time within Mr. COCKRELL. The Committee on Claims report an amendment one year from and after the date at which the body of the land em­ in the nature of a substitute. braced in the Fort Dalles military re8ervation in Oregon shall be The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment will be reported. offered for sale pursuant to the act of Congress of March 3, 1877, to The CHIEF CLERK. It is proposed to strike out all after the enact­ become the purchaser of that portion of the land embraced within ing clause and to insert : the limits of the reservation upon which she ha:s made improvements, That the Seretary of the Treasury be, and he fa hereby, authorized and directed in consequence of an error of survey, and believing the same to be to pay to S. I. Gustin the sum of $lil29 for supplies furnished by him under con­ outside of the reservation and within the limits of her own land, at tract made with Government officia. s to the Army of the United States. such a price as the register and receiver of the land district within Mr. ALLISON. What was the amount of the original bill T I did which the land is situated shall determine, subject to the approval of not qnito catch that. the Commissioner of the General Land Office. Mr. HILL, of Georgia. Sixty-nine thousand dollars. The amend­ The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered ment only proposes to allow $1,129. to be engrossed for a third reading, read the third time, and passed. Mr. ALLISON. A great falling off. Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. There were two bills for the relief SETTLERS IN FbRT KEARNEY RESERVATION. of Mr. Gustin pending in this body. This bill for $6~,000 was by mis­ Mr. PADDOCK. I ask the Senate to proceed to the consideration take considered by the committee in the first place, and we discovered of Senate bill No.1608, order of business No. 567. This is a local bill, that that was not the bill that was really referred to us but a bill pro­ which will take but a moment, I think. viding for the payment of $1,100. For that reason, the sixty-nine­ The PRESIDENT pro ternpore. The Senator from Nebraska moves thousand-dollar bill being the bill before us, we moved to amend by that all orders prior to order of business No. 567 be postponed. striking out all after the enacting clause and inserting the bill which The motion was agreed to. was intended to be referred to as, the bill for the payment of the The PRESIDENT pro tenip01·e. The Senator from Nebraska now smaller sum. moves to proceed to the consideration of Senate bill No. 1608. The PRESIDENT p1·0 tenipore. The question is on the amendment The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the reported by the Committee on Claims. Whole, proceeded to consider the bill (S. No. 1608) for the relief of The amendment was agreed to. certain settlers within the late Fort Kearney military reservation in The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the amend- Nebraska. ment was concurred in. • It proposes to confirm the homestead entries numbered 7182, 7226, The bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading, read the 7233, 7587, 7920 and 7921, made at Grand Island, Nebraaka, under the third time, and passed. act of Congress of July 21, 1876, by Morgan T. Martin, Samuel H. McNutt, Ml.an D. Randall, John J. Brown, Joseph B. Long, and Mat­ GEORGE G. SNYDER. thew 0. Riley, as actual settlers, in section 36, township 9 north, of Mr. FERRY. I move the postponement of all present orders for range 15 west, and section 36, township 9 north, of .range 13 west, the purpose of taking up Senate bill No. 1352, being order of business within the late Fort Kearney military reservation; but the State of No. 346. Nebraska is, by legislative act, to assent thereto, and thereafter the The PRESIDENT _pi·o tempore. The Senator from Michigan moves State shall be entitled to select other lands of equal area for school to postpone all orders prior to order of business No. 346. purposes as indemnity for the lands embra-0ed in these entries, in like The motion was agreed to. manner as by existing law may be done in cases where lands in sections The PRESIDENT pro tenip01·e. The Senator from Michigan now 16 and 36, appropriated for schools in Nebraska, have been sold or moves that the Senate proceed to the consideration of Senate bill No. otherwise disposed of by any act of Congress. 1352. Mr. COCKRELL. Is there a report Y The motion was a.greed to; and the bill (S. No. 1352) for the relief The PRESIDENT pro tempore. There is no report. of George G. Snyder was considered as in Committee of the Whole. Mr. COCKRELL. I should like to hear an explanation. The bill wa.s rnported from the Committee on Public Lands with Mr._PAD DOCK. There is no report, but there is a letter from the an amendment, which was, in line 9, after the word "therefor," to Commissioner of the General Land Office recommending the passage strike out "and that the State hereafter to be erected out of said Ter­ of the bill. It is simply authorizing the State to take other lands in ritory shall be entitled to receive other lands in equal amount in lieu lieu of these lands which were settled upon. thereof," and to insert in lieu thereof " and thereupon other lands Mr. COCKRELL. Let the Commissioner's letter be read. in equal amount in lieu thereof shall be selected under the direction Mr. PADDOCK. I send the letter to the Clerk's desk. of the Secretary of the Interior for the uses and purposes expressed The Chief Clerk read as follows: in said section 15 of the act of Congress approved September 9, 1850 ;" DEP.ARTME:h""T OF THE INTERIOR, GENERAL LAND OFFICE, so as to make the bill read: Washingt.on, D. C., March 31, 1880. That the said George G. Snyder be, and he hereby is, authorized to enter the Sm: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt, by reference from you, of alet­ ea.st half of northwest quarter and west half of northeast quarter of section 16, terfromF. M.Davis, oommissionerof public lands for the StateofNebraska, datled township 2 south, range 4 ea.st, Utah Territory, as a homest1md, under the provis­ Lincoln, Nebraska, the 22d instant, relative to the sixteenth and thirty-sixth sec­ ions of the homestead law; and upon showing fnll compliance with the provisions tions within the limits of what was formerly know as the Fort Kearney military of said law the said Snyder shall be entitled to have and receive a patent therefor, reservation. and thereupon other lands in equal amount in lien thereof shall be selected under It appears that at the date of the survey of said reservation there were settlers the direction of the Secretary of the Interior for the uses and purposes expressed upon certain tracts in the sixteenth and thirty-sixth section who after survey made in said section 15 of the act of Congress approved September 9, 1850. homestead entries for the tracts so occupied. That sa.id entries were held for can­ cellation for the reason that said section inured to the State at date of surrey, Mr. DAVIS, of Illinois. Is there any report in this case Y under the a-Ot of Congress of April 19, 1864, for common schools, excepting such Mr. PAD DOCK. There is no written report. Snyder went upon tracts as may have been occupied by settlers, with a view to pre-emption prior to survey, and that for any tracts so excepted the State will be entitled to select an unsurveyed lands. Afterward when they were surveyed it was dis­ equal quantity a.s indemnity, and said parties were advised that they mUBt look to covered that Snyder was upon a school section. He might have se­ the State, the owner of the 1e~l title, for relief. lected other land, but he was misled by the local land officers and The question is now asked: Cannot the State relinquish its claim to the land abandoned his claim. This bill is to enable Snyder to retain the occupied by said homesteaders and be permitted to select indemnity for tl10 lands so relinquished without further authority through an act of Congress 1 quarter section upon which he located originally before the land was In reply I have to state that the act of Congress approved February 26, 1859, surveyed. It is a very proper and equitable bill. It is proper and entitled ".An act to anthorizesettlers upon sixteenth and thirt;v·sixth sections who right that the Territory should select other land in lieu of it. It cer­ settled before the surveys of the public lands to pre-empt their settlements," pro­ tainly would be a very wrong principle that Snyder, who had made vides "that where settlements with a. view to pre-emption have been made before the survey of the lands in the field which shall be found to have been made on valuable improvements in view of the law as it then stood, should be sections 16 or 36, said sections shall be subject to the pre.emption claim of snch set­ compelled.to lose them and take other lands further away, perhaps tler, and if they or either of them shall have been or shall be reserved or pled)Zed nothing like so valuable as those he first settled on. · for the nae of schools or colleges in the State or . Territory in which the lands lie, The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the amendment other lands of like quantity are hereby appropriated in lieu of such a.s may be pat­ ented by pre-emption." * * * reported by the Committee on Public Lands _ It will be observed that provision is made for indemnity only where lands have The amendment was agreed to. boon lost to the State by reason of settlements with a view to pre-emption. ~ o pro- 4138 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 4, vision being made in ca.se of settlement.it with a view of secliring title under the that what he had agreed for each individual wagon should be charged homestead laws, the State will not be permi tt.ed to select indemnity for the lands covered by said homestead entries without the authority of Congress to that end. and that the balance should go to his credit in the settlement of bis :Mr. Davis's letter is herewith inclosed. account. That is what we propose here. Very respectfully, ~· DAVIS, of West Virginia. I once inquired into this case in J. A. WILLIAMSON, looking up the question of the distribution of arms, and my recollec­ Commissioner. Hon. A. s. PADDOCK, tion is that from some cause or other since the war a large amount of Unit.ea Stat.es Senate. arms was given upon the requisition of some one of the governors of South Carolina, an°: they were sent to New York and actually sold, The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered and the money applied for some purpose that was not very creditable to be engrossed for a third reading, read the third time, and passed. as I remember, having looked into it. ' ARMS ACCOUNT WITH SOUTH CAROLINA. Mr. BUTLER. There can be no doubt of that fact. They were Mr. BUTLER. I ask the Senate to postpone all prior orders and sold, and the State never got the benefit of it. proceed to the C(lnsideration of Senate bill No. 1135, order of business Mr. HAMPTON. I have some papers bearing upon the matter. No. 471. ~·KIRKWOOD. I have ~mt. a single. word fnrt~er .to say. In The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from South Carolina looki_ng at t~e langua:ge ?f this bill .there is no question m my mind moves to postpone all orders prior to order of business No. 471. that if the bill passes it wipes out entirely whatever is charged aO'ainst The motion was agreed to. the State. There may be good cause for doing so but that is the The PRESIDENT p1·0 tempore. The Senator from South Carolina effect of the bill. '. now moves that the Senate proceed to the consideration of Sen:i.t-e Mr. HAMPTON. It is left to the discretion of the Secretary of bill No. 113il. War. The motion was agreed to ; and the Senate, as in Committee of the ~he bill .was reported t~ the _Senate, ordered to be engrossed for a Whole, proceeded to the consideration of the bill (S. No. 1135) au­ third reading, read t he third time, and passed. thorizing the Secretary of War to adjust and settle the account for REFUNDING OF TAX TO CITIZENS OF LYNCHBURGH. arms between the State of South Carolina and the Government of the United States. It authorizes the Secretary of War to adjust the Mr. JOHNSTON. I move that all orders prior to order of business account for arms between the State of South Carolina and the Gov­ No. 512 be postponed in order to consider Hoose bill No. 2797. ernment of the United States, and balance the same by so reducing The PRESIDENT pro ternpore. The Senator from Virginia moves the overcharge made against the State in 1869, under the act approved to postpone all orders prior to order of business No. 512. April 23, 1808, and the several acts amendatory thereof, as that the The motion was agreed to. amounts paid on that account by the State for the ten years last past The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Virginia now be taken in full satisfaction of the same. moves to proceed to the considemtion of House bill No. 2797. Mr. KIRKWOOD. Is there a. report in that case t The motion was agreed to; and the bill (H. R. No. 2797) for the The PRESIDENT pro temp01·e. 'rhere is. relief of certain citizens of Lynchborgb, Virginia, and refunding to Mr. KIRKWOOD. I do not understand the bill, and I ask that the them taxes improperly collected from them on manufactured tobacco report be read. was considered as in Committee of the Whole. ' The Chief Clerk read the following report, submitted by Mr. HAMP­ Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. I see that there is o. report in this TON March 30, 1880 : case. I ask that it be read. The Committee on Milita1·y Affairs, to whom was referred the bill (S. No. 1135) The Chief Clerk read the following report, submitted by Mr. BA YARD "authorizing the Secretary of W a.r to adjust and settle account.it for arms with the April 13, 1880 : State of South Carolina," "beg leave to report: That it appears from the papers in the case that Governor Scott, in 1869, sent the The Committee on Finance, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. No. 2797) for adjutant and inspector general of the State, F. J. Moses, jr., to Washington, "t.o ~e relief of certain citizens of Lynchburgh, Virginia, and refunding to them taxes make requisition upon the United States Government for the quota of arms dne improperly collected from them on manufactured tobacco, having had the same .this State, 11.nd to receive and receipt for the same; " that in pursuance of the order under con~i~eration, su~mit the following report: of Governor Scott, Moses made a requisition and was notified by Colonel T. J. :rh.e petitioners we~ licensed mann!acturers of tob!!-cco, resident in Lynchburgh, Treadwell, in charge of the Ordnance Office, th'lt there was due to the State on Virgrma, and had earned on that busmess for some time previous to May, 1868. account of the quota. the swn of $8, 798.78. Upon receipt of this information Moses Lynchburghis a. well-known center of tobacco manufacture, and the attention wrote to General Dyer, Chief of Ordnance, that " the number of arms embraced in of the revenue officials of the United States Government is especially drawn to the such quota would be entirely inadequate to the purposes for which the arms are transactions of that locality. desired by the governor," and he asked that ten thousand Springfield musket.it.and In 1868 there was a tax of thirty-two cents per pound upon the m:mufacturo in .the like number of sets of infantry accouterments should be issued to the State. which these parties were engaged. By law this tax was to be assessed upon and paid by the ruanufactnrer; but a. practice grew up that attained the force of cus­ 'lh1::!::1su;~~:'is~:~a~oved by the Secretary of War, Hon. .Tohn A. Rawlins, and tom to allow a. sale of tobacco by the ~anufacturer unassessed, ancl, with the as­ The State was charged for these arms 124,000. Since that time the State has sent of the Uruted States assessor, a delivery of the tobacco with the tax nnpaiu been credited with the amount of her annual quota, reducing the balance still due to the vendee, who assumed the payment of the tax in his contract and who was to le0,596.08. then assessed and the tax collected from him. ' : In view of the fact that the act of April 23, 1808, provides for an annual distribu· Conspicuous among; the tobacco manufacturers at Lynchburgh was one Seisfield, ti.on of arms to the several States, and m consideration of the circumstances attend­ wp.owas al~ays-until~u;i~~st, 1868-regarded as a man of excellent cbar:ict.era.nd ing the extra-0rdinary requisition of Governor Scott, by which the State has boon high pecumary responsibility. He was not only a manufactnrer of tobacco him­ deprived of her quota of arms during the last eleven years, and will be for twenty self, but an extensive dealer in the article; and these fa-0ts were well known to the 'years to come, it seems but an act of equity that she should be relieved from the United States revenue officials and to the public. It was a usual and customary debt charged against her by the General Government. Your committee therefore thing for Seisfield, himself a manufacturer, to buy tobacco frf>m other manufact­ recommend the passage of the accompanying bill. urers, who sold and delivered the same to him without any precedent asse.<1 ment or payment of tax, which was afterward assessed to him· although it was known Mr. KIRKWOOD. I do not understand the equity of that. If I to the Government officials that he was not the manufacturer, but the purchaser of the toba-0co in question. understand it, in 1869 the State received a much larger quantity of Such was the condition of business under the supervision and approval of the arms than she was entitled to, and by reason of that receipt of a United States Treasury officials, and in tho month of May, 1868, the petitioners larger quantity than she was entitled to she has not received since sold -.nd delivered to Seisfield, nna.ssessed and ta.x unpaid, the tobacco for which taxes were snbsequentlyexacted from them, and after such sale and dAlivery both her annual quota. being well known to the United States officials, the legal tax was assessed' upon Mr. BUTLER. She has not received one since. Seisfield, who was then the owner, iand was also a manufacturer,) by the United Mr. KIRKWOOD. The annual quota has not yet made up the States assessor, Wood, and the tax list delivered t-0 Pendleton the collector. But extra amount that she received at that particular time. The propo­ the collect.or had the statute before him, and declined to receive1 these particular assessments made against Seisfield, on the express ground that he was not the aition now is to wipe out the balance standing against her and let manufacturer thereof, but that the petitioners were. His objection was made the new distribution commence from this time. known to Seisfield and to the petitioners, and the question was referretl to the Mr. BUTLER. I do not know whether it will result in wiping it Com.missioner of Internal Revenne at Washington, and the result was an order to

This was the case all over the Union, and many instances of great hardship and mine. I have attempted in a manifest case of error and mistake, irremediable wrong resulted. In Virginia, excluded in 1868 frOm representation where a man was included in a business with which he had no rela­ in Congress, the hardships of this nature were necessarily greater and more fre­ tion whatever, to go to the courts and endeavor to have the assess­ quent. The power of assessment wa~ thus uncontrollable; the power of collection was ment and collection stayed, to have it enjoined until the circumstances summary and unavoidable, and in the cases of these petitioners it was promptly could be examined into; and the courts would·say: "We are power­ executed, and their houses and lands were immediately levied upon and threat­ less, for here stands a statute of the United States which forbids the ened with forced and speedy sale at prices ruinous to the debtor. It may be said there was " a. compromise " and an abatement of the amount of issue of injunctive process by any court to delay an assessment." tax at first demanded under the new and totally unexpected assessment, but to These parties were wholly in the hands of the collection officers, this committee it seems to have been a partial release and mitigation of a very and by them they were misled; by them they were wronged. It is harsh and inequitable collection. a question appealing to the equitable sense of Congress. It is a case If the legality of the tax had been in doubt, then a :payment in accord and satis­ faction would have been in settlement and a compromise; but the legality was not where a man has striven fairly and steadily to pay his tax, and where disputed, the facts were all well known and admitted by both parties, anuon what there never ha.a been a suggestion that he meant to evade the honest grounds the amount of tax at first assessed and demanded was reduced does not payment of any tax, but by the acts of the officers of the United appear. But the present application is not to readjust a settlement once made of States he has been put in such a position that he could not compel legal rights, but an appeal to the equitable power in Congress, ez cequo et bono, to restore moneys which the harsh letter of the law made payable, but which the the assessment and coU..ction of the tax upon himself, but which they circumstances of the case, as stated, call upon Congress to restore. chose voluntarily and without his request to put upon his vendee. In tbe present case the good faith and honesty orthe petitioners is fully attested Then it becomes a question whether the Government through its by he depositions of the United States revenue aa-ents, who made a thorough ex­ agents having induced the man to occupy a position which, if it had amination of the facts at the time. They have paid all taxes duly assessed to them, and would havo promptly :paid the taxes in question if the action of the officers of been a case between private parties, there would not be a word of the Government had not vlrtually prevented them, as we have above stat.ed. question-- For these reasons your committee recommend the passage of House bill No. 2797. The PRESIDENT pro tern.pore. The morning hour having ex­ Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. I desire to inquire if this claim has pired-- been submitted to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, and whether Mr. BA.YARD. I will ask the Senate to allow this matter to be or not he has made any report upon the claim, whether or not he rec­ concluded. I hope it will not take long. ommends this legislation. Mr. HARRIS. If there be unanimous consent that the regolar Mr. BAYARD. There were very voluminous communications from order be laid aside informally-- the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. This report was the result Mr. BA.YARD. Let it be informallylaid aside; thatis all I ask. of a very long examination and a great deal of debate in the commit­ Mr. HARRIS. If it be made subject to call, I would have no ob­ tee. The papers in the case are very voluminous. In the report which jection to a contination of this bill to its conclusion, unless it shall was drawn by me under the direction of the committee I have en­ stretch out to an undue amount of time. deavored to give all the points and to give the judgment that wear­ The PRESIDENT pro tempo1·e. The Senator from Delaware asks rived at upon those points. There is not, I think, a doubtful fact unanimous consent that the pending order may be laid aside inform­ stated in the report upon which our conclusions are predicated. ally, subject to call, for the purpose of continuing the consideration There is no doubt that the practice of assessing manufactured to­ of this bill. bacco to the vendee, instead of the manufacturer, was permitted con­ Mr. INGALLS. Not to be affected by an adjournment. stantly at that center of tobacco manufacture. That fact is not denied Mr. BA.YA.RD. No. but admitted by the letters of the Department. The PRESIDENT p1·0 tenipore. Is there objection Y The Chair bears Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. That was not in accordance with none, and it is so ordered. The Senator from Delaware will proceed. law. Mr. KIRKWOOD. Will the Senator allow me to interrupt him Mr. BA.YARD. Let me go a little further, and then I will answer very briefly Y any question the Senator chooses 'o put. The assessments in this Mr. BAY ARD. Certainly. particular case were made in accordance with the custom of the De­ Mr. KffiKWOOD. I understand that after this irregular or illegal partment there. Finally, when a question was raised by the collector mode of assessment had been continued forf!ome timeitwas brought as to whether he should receive assessments made to parties who he to the notice of the Commissioner, and that he assented to iU knew were not the manufacturers but were the vendees of the manu­ Mr. BAYARD. He did not check it; on the contrary, be told the facturers, he demurred to receiving such collection lists from the as­ collector to go on. sessor and he applied to headquarters to know what he should do and Mr. KffiKWOOD. Did he then say that that should apply to what whether he should or should not accept those collection lists and pro­ had been done already, but should not be done again Y ceed in the collection of the taxes from the parties to whom the taxes Mr. BAYARD. He did not make any such general declaration. bad been assessed by the assessor. This led to a long correspondence, Mr. WITHERS. His full assent was given to the arrangement. all of which we have had before us, which is in existence now in the Mr. BA.YARD. The Senator from Wisconsin [Mr. CAMERON] rose committee-room, and can be sent for should the Senate desire to in­ to aak me a question and I requested him to let me get through with spect it. The answer came to that from the Commissioner of Inter­ my statement. I will merely say that I shall be glad to answer any nal Revenue, " Go on with the collection according to the assessment question that the Senator desires to ask. which you have received." He went on, accepting that aasessment as Mr. CA.MERON, of Wisconsin. The Senator from Delaware stated the proper one. The fact was made known to the original manufact­ that a practice had grown up in that particular locality, and perhaps urers as well a-s to the vendees that the collector WM acting, aft.er no­ in other localities, which I understood was contrary to the statute, tice to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, under his permission, which is that the party who should have been assessed was not as­ or under bis orders. sessed, but the vendee or some other party. Thi&waa the state of affairs in the month of May, 1868. The man­ Mr. BA.YARD. The vendee. ufacturers of the tobacco, the parties who were under law liable for Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. It is conceded that that was not in the tax and liable to be assessed, were therefore made fully aware accordance with the law. that after they had sold the tobacco their tobacco had been assessed to Mr. BA.YA.RD. That is so; but I say it was tolerated by the De­ their vendees and not to themselves, and that the officers of the Gov­ partment. They had done it so often that their officers naturally ernment had been ordered to proceed and enforce that assessment followed it, and in this case it waa done by the assessors. The list.e upon those persons. So they staid until the following August. were handed to the collector, they were returned to the Commission~r Then the vendee who had been selected by the Government officers of Internal Revenue under the collector's demurrer, and the Commis­ as the person to be charged with this tax (without the connivance, sioner told him to go on with those lists although he knew they were without the knowledge of the parties now sought to be relieved, the made out in violation of law. original manufacturers) was discovered to be in default. He ran Mr. MORRILL. It is very rare that I have occasion to differ with away, in consequence of his own fraud, and by collusion with the the Committee on Finance on a claim that has been reported favora­ Government storekeepers. Then they turned around and made a bly or adversely from it, but I do not think that this claim has been second assessment upon the parties who originally bad been liable subjected to the usual scrutiny of that committee. The facts pre­ for the tax, but who had been kept lulled, as this report truly says sented by the chairman of the Committee on Finance I believe are into a false security on this subject. They then turned upon them very much as he has stated, but he does not bring out in such strong and said, "We now will assess yon in August for the taxes we should light aa I think should be done the fact that this is an old, stale claim, have assessed against you in May, but which we did assess to another brought here a dozen years after the transaction, after a compromise person, and having given you rea.son to suppose that yon were not has been made by the DP.partment and a settlement with the Govern­ liable for it we now call on yon to pay it." ment at a much les~ sum than the original amount of taxes due upon Those are the facts, ascertained by a long correspondence, in regard the tobacco ; nor does he bring the fact out that is suggested by the to which there is no doubt. The strict letter of the law would have Commissioner of In ternalReTenue of a suspicion of fraud on the part of enforced the assessment thereon when made. The agents of the Gov­ the revenue officer, and a collusion possibly with the parties concerned. ernment did not execute that law, but they assessed these taxes to Mr. WITHERS. With what pa1·ties, I will a.sk Y To what parties other than the persons to whom they should have been assessed and concerned does the Sena.tor refer 7 who had no control over that assessment. Mr. MORRILL. The party who ran away. The Senator perhaps may have had knowledge himself in his own Mr. WITHERS. Not the manufacturers. State and in his own profession as I in mine that wherever there was 1\Ir. BA.YARD. Not the parties mentioned in the bill. an irre~ar and inaccurate and erroneous assessment the courts were Mr. MORRILL. But I do unaerstand that there is a very strong not at liberty to relieve from it. Probably the experience of all who suspicion on the part of the Government officers here of fraud of their hear me, who are engaged in the legal profession, would accord with man intrusted with the collection of this revenue. 4140 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. Jmm 4,

Mr. JOHNSTON. Not with the collusion, however, of any of these The message also announced that the Honse had passed the bill parties. (S. No. 194) to provide for the disposal of the Fort Harker military Mr. WITHERS. These parties had no connection with it. reservation, with amendments in which it requested the concurrence Mr. MORRILL. These parties knew the law. They knew that of the Senate. they were violating the law as much as the officer himself. The Gov­ The message further announced that the Honse had passed the fol­ ernment cannot condone the offense either of the parties themselves lowing bill andjointresolution; in which it requested the concurrence or of the officers. of the Senate : The report of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue would show, A bill (H. R. No. 3151) for the relief of Francis W. Maxwell; and if it were read, the amount of tax levied. I do not ask to consu~e A joint resolution (H. R. No. 316) granting the use of artillery, mus­ the time by its reading, nor do I expect to prevent the passage of this kets, and tents at the soldiers' reunion at Decatur, Illinois. bill · but I desire that the fact shall be known. The amount of tax The message also announced that the Honse bad non-concurred in that was levied was something like $41,000, I think. the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. No. 6237) making Mr. BAYARD. Forty thousand dollars, about. appropriations for the construction, repair, completion, and preserva­ M,r. MORRILL. A compromise was effected at $25,000. lJnder tion of certain works on rivers and harbors, and for other pnrposea. these circumstances I think it would be wrong for Congress to mter­ ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. fere. Mr. WITHERS. Will the Senator state the circumstances under The message further announced that the Speaker of the House had which the compromise was made Y signed the enrolled bill (H. R. No. 3966) to carry into effect the reso­ Mr. MORR.ILL. The Senator from Virginia may state such cir­ lution of Congress adopted on the 29th day of October, 1781, in regard cumstances as he chooses. I state them according to the representa­ to a monumental column at Yorktown, Virginia, and for other pur­ tions made to the Committee on Finance. poses; and it was thereupon signed by the President pro tempore. Under these circumstances I think it would establish a very wrong CLAIMS AGAINST THE DISTRIC'I\ precedent for us to take up cases that have been compromised by the Mr. HARRIS. Mr. President- officers of the Government. It would give us an endless amount of The PRESIDENT p1·0 tern.pore. The Senate resumes the considera­ duty. If there is not to be an end of these settlements on the part tion of the unfinished business, which is House bill No. 2328, the Dis­ of the Government, either by the Secretary of the Treasury or by th:e trict of Columbia claims bill. Did the Senator from Tennessee ad­ Commissioner of Internal Revenue, there is to be no end of our busi­ dress the Chair 7 ness here. It strikes me that this is emphatically a case that ought Mr. HARRIS. I addressed the Chair for the purpose of calling up not to receive the sanction of the Senate. the unfinished business which the Chair has already laid before the The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered Senate. to a third reading, and it was read the third time. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. That comes up without a call by a. The PRESIDENT pro tenipore. Shall the bill pass 7 Senator. Mr. MORRILL. I must ask for the yeas and nays on the passage Mr. HARRIS. The Senator from Indiana [Mr. VOORHEES] desires of the bill, because I desire to record my vote against it. . to proceed this morning. If, by unanimous consent, the considera­ The yeas and nays were ordered, and the Secretary called the roll. tion of this bill can be laid aside informally to be taken up on call, Mr.PADDOCK. I wish to announce that the Senator from Iowa [Mr. and not be prejudiced by an adjournment if an adjournment should ALLISON] is paired with the Senator from Tennessee, [Mr. BAILEY.] take place, I have no objection to that arrangement. It was par­ The result was announced-yeas 33, nays 10 ; as follows : tially so agreed yesterday evening, and I t4erefore announce it to the YEAS--33. Senate. Bayard, Groome, McDonald, Va.nee, Mr. SAULSBURY. I gave notice yesterday that I should immedi­ Beck, Harris, Maxey, Voorhees, ately at the conclusion of the morning hour to-day ask to take up the Brown, Hereford, Morgan, Walker, Butler, Hill of Georgia, Pendleton, Wallace, resolutions in reference to the seat of the Senator from Louisiana. As Ca.JI, Pryor, Willi.a.ms, 'I understand the Senator from Indiana [Mr. VOORHEES] has given Coke, Ransom, Withers. notice that he desires to speak to-day I shall not call up the resolu­ Davis of W. Va., ~=nJones of Florida, Saulsbury, tions now, but at the conclusion of his speech I shall ask to take them Eaton, Kernan, Slater, Farley, Kirkwood, Thurman, up so that gentleman who desire to make speeches upon the subject m~y have an opportunity to do so. In deferring action upon the NAYS-10. resolutions we have waited some ten days, and one Senator, the Sena­ .Anthony, Cameron of Wis., Morrill, Windom. :Baldwin, Ferry, _ Platt, tor from New York, [Mr.KERNAN,] was on the floor for the purpose of Burnside, McMillan, Rollins, addressing the Senate at the time the resolutions were laid aside for A:BSENT-33. other business. Mr. HARRIS. I very much hope the Senator from Delaware will .Allison, Conkling, Hoar, Randolph, Bailey, Davis of Illinois, Jonas, Saunders, not insist upon proceeding to the consideration of t he Louisiana reso­ Blaine, Dawes, Jones of "Nevada, Sharon, lutions until the bill that I have mentioned is considered. It ought Blair, Edmunds, Kellogg, Teller, not to take more than an hour to dispose of the bill which is now under :Booth, Garland, Lamar, Vest, consideration, and I shall certainly resist any effort displace it for :Bruce, Grover, Logan, Wbyre. to Cameron of Pa.., Hamlin, :McX>herson, the purpose of making speeches in the Kellogg ca.se or in any ot~er Carpenter, Hampton, Paddock, case. Cockrell, Hill of Colorado, Plumb, Mr. ROLLINS. I supposed it was understood that the Kellogg So the bill wa.s passed. case was not to come up during the present week, at any rate not MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE. until the return of Senators who are delegates at Chicago. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair will state what is the A message from the House of Representatives, by Mr. T. F ..KING, matter before the Senate. The Senator from Tennessee [Mr. HARR.rs] one of its clerks, announced that the House had concurred m the a-aks unanimous consent that the pending order may be laid aside in­ amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. No. 3347) to authorize formally without being prejudiced by an adjournment, in order to the Secretary of War to furnish four pieces of condemned ordnance permit the Senator from Indiana [Mr. VOORHEES] to address the Sen­ for the soldiers' monument at Marietta, Ohio. ate upon the question which he has indicated. Is there objection T The message also announced that the House had conc~ed ~ some Mr. WINDOM. I do not desire to interpose any objection, but wish and non-concurred in other amendments of the Senate LO the bill (H. to give my consent to the arrangement, with the notice, and if possi­ R. No. 6036) making appropriations for the service of the Post-Office ble the understanding on the part of the Senate, that at some con­ Department for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1881, and for other venient time before the close of the session I may have an opportunity purposes, a.nd had concu~ed in. the .seventh amendment of the Sen­ to address the Senate also upon the subject on which the Senator from ate, with an amendment m which it requested the concurrence of Indiana. now proposes to speak. the Senate. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the agree­ The message further announced that the House had concurred in ment 7 The Chair hears none. The pending order is informally laid the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. No. 2440) to author­ a.side and now the Senator from Indiana asks to consider-- ize the Secretary of War to transfer to the Fairmount Park Art Ass?­ Mr: VOORHEES. I ask to consider the report which has been ciation thirty condemned or captured bronze cannon, to be used m made from the select committee to investigate the cause of the emi­ the erection of an equestrian statue to the late Major-General George gration of negroes from the Southern to the Northern States. Gordon Meade, with amendments in which it requested the concnr­ The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is so agreed. rence of the Senate. The message also announced that the House had concurred in the RIVER AND HARBOR BILL. report of the committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the The Senate proceeded to ~o~ider its amendment~ to the 1?ill (H. two Houses on the joint resolution (S. R. No. 19) to p~ovide for the R. No. 6237) making appropriat10~s for the con~ruction, repair, com­ publication and distribution of a supplement to the Revised Statutes. pletion, and preservation of certam works on rivers and harbors, and The message further announced that the Honse bad passed the joint for other purposes. resolution (S. R. No.117) authorizing the Secretary of Wa:r to loan to On motion of Mr. RANSOM, it was the governor of North Carolina one hundred and forty-five tents for Resolved That the Senate insist upon its amendments to the said bill disagreed the use of the State Guards, to enable them to participate in the cen­ .to by the House of Representatives, and ask a conference with the House on the tennial celebration at King's Mountain in October next. disagreeing votes of the two Houses thereon. 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN.ATE. 4141

By unanimous consent, it was them. But in seeking the origin of the negro exodus I am not con­ Ordered, That the committee on the part of the Senate be appointed by the Pres­ fined to the republican papers and postmasters of Indiana. ';I'here is ident pro tempore. high authority in this body for the assertion that it was conceived in The PHESIDENT pro tempore appointed Mr. RANSOM, Mr. HERE­ the brain of a northern white man and not in that of a southern FORD, and Mr. McMILLAN. black man. El\IIGRATION OF NEGROES TO NORTHERN STATES. Sir, I have known the Senator from Minnesota [Mr. WINDOM] many years, and I hold him in the most perfect respect and esteem. In as­ Mr. VOORHEES. Mr. President, on the 15th day of December last signing to him, therefore, the principal authorship of the colored I had the honor to introduce into this body the following resolution, exodus, with all its consequences, he will understand that I do so in which was afterward adopted: the spirit of absolute personal good-will and friendship. On the 16th Whereas large numbers of negroes from the Sonthern States, and especially of January, 1879, he introduced into this body the following resolu­ from the State of North Carolina., are emigrating to the Northern States, and espe­ cially t.o the State of Indiana; and tion: Whereas it is cnrrently alleged that they are induced to do so by the nnjnst and .Resolved, That with a view to the peaceful adjustment of all qnestions relating cruel conduct or their white fellow-citizens toward them in the South : Therefore, to suffrage, to the effective enforcement of oonstitntional and natural rights, and B e it resolved, Tb at a committee of five members of this body be appointed by its to the promotion of the best interests of the whole country, by the elimination of presiding officer, whose dnty it shall be to investigate the causes which have led sectionalism from politics, a committeo of seven Senators be appointed by the to the aforesaid emigration and to report the same to the Senate; and said commit­ Chair, and charged with the duty of inqniring as to the expediency and practica­ tee shall have power to send for persons and papers, compel the attendance of wit­ bility of encouraging and promoting by all jnst and proper methOds the partial nesses, and to sit at any time. migration of colored persons from those Stat.es and congressional districts where they are not allowed to freely and peacefnlly exercise and enjoy their constitu­ A tone of bitter assault upon me as the author of the proposed in­ tional rights as American citizens into snch St.ates as may desire t-0 receive them vestigation soon pervaded the republican press of the country. It and will protect them in said riahts, or into such Territ-ory or Territories of the was assumed that I was solely responsible for it, and thereupon it United States as may be providecl for their use and occnpation; and if said com­ and its author were denounced accordingly. It seems strange in mittee shall deem such mi!!Tation expedient and practicable that they report by bill or otherwise what in tiieir judgment is the most effective method of aocom· view of this fact to find that every republican Senator present and plishing that object; and that said committee have leave to sit during the recess. voting, except one, voted for the resolution on its passage, and on a call of the ayes and noes. I do not ree!:Lll this circumstance in order Here was a direct proposition for an investigating committee, to to shield my head from hostile blows, but simply to illustrate what be composed of seven Senators, with a view of encouraging and pro­ degreo of fairness may be expected in tho political warfare of the moting the migration of colored persons into the Northern States and republican party. I shrink from no responsibility on this subject. I Territories. It was the first ever made in either branch of Congress, embrace all the consequences of the course I have pursued, and I have and was regarded at the time as a harmless novelty. On the 7th of a right to expect others to respond to the same rule of conduct. February, less than a; month later, however, the Senator from Min­ It has been assumed also by a partisan press, overlooking the atti­ nesota addressed the Senate in support of his resolution, making a tude of republican Senators, that the investigation contemplated by very elaborate and carefully prepared speech. In this remarkable the resolution, and which is now concluded, was not only a novel, speech he deplored what he styled the shameful failure of the Gov­ but a most unwarranted proceeding, and called for the general con­ ernment to vindicate our citizenship within our own borders, and as­ demnation of the public. Is this assumption true 'I On the contrary, suming that the negro was deprived of his constitutional rights in there have been many investigations since the close of the war into the Southern States advised him to go elsewhere. A new Canaan, the alleged condition of the colored race in the Southern States. in the rich language of the Bible, was proclaimed by the Senator from They have been on a scale so extensive that the one now under con­ Minnesota to the fervid imagination of the negroes if they would sideration is dwarfed in the comparison. But as they were organized arise and leave their present habitations. A Moses was also prom­ in the interest of the republican party, and so conducted as to insure ised them in express words by the Senator to lead them by thousands political capital for that party in the Northern States, it wonld be to the new Canaan which he described. He lures them into his unreasonable to expect them to receive anything but plauditiS and scheme by saying that the privilege of taking from forty to eighty praise from party organs and party leaders. The present investiga­ acres of good land should be extended to millions of colored people, tion is the first departure from that rule, and it has been :fiercely re­ and that they should have their land in a locality suited to their sented as an innovation, a democratic innovation, upon the monopoly wants. As to the expense of such a movement the Senator traa.ts it of the republican party, an infringement of an old patent for the lightly. He says: manufacture of southern outrages, and for the construction of an If it should cost a few millions to provide the territory for them, who would weigh that fact in the balance against a solution of the most perplexing and dan­ exciting, sensational, harrowing campaign document on the approach gerons problem that mena-ces onr future as a nation, the performance of partial of an important election. I think I may concede that the republican but tardy jnstice to a race, and the permane~ pacification of the country¥ party has a right to complain that one of its immemorial customs Again, the Senator exclaims : and most sacred privileges, the privilege of deceiving the public mind, Let it be understood that snch a place is ready for them, and the bishops and has been greatly interfered with during the session of Congress now miniswrs of their varions churches will head the exodus to the promised land, with drawing to a close. An investigation has ta.ken place into the alleged sengs of praise and devout thanksgiving to God for this mighty deliverance. Do causes of the discontent and the migratory movements of the negro yon say they are too poor to pay the expenses of the proposedjonrney 1 Doubtless the great majority are so, bnt the enterprising, the intelligent, and the ambitions race in the South, during which both parties and both races have will find some means of getting there; and shoUld any difficulty occur at this point, been fully and equally examined and heard. the patriotism and philanthropy of the people may be confidently relied upon to Sir, there has been much inquiry and speculation in the public org;anize and provide the needed funds. mind as to the real origin of what has come to be styled the exodus It will be seen from this passage of the Senator's speech of Febru­ of the negroes from their southern homes. All party or northern re­ ary 7, 1879, that he not only proposed a select committee to encour­ sponsibility for it has beenmoststrenuously denied. It has been vehe­ age the exodus of the negro, but that he likewise suggested the very mently insisted that no suggestion from any political quarter, or in­ plan by which it could be best promoted. Ho U.eclared that "the deed from any quarter whatever, was ever made to the negro on the patriotism and philanthropy of the people,'' meaning of course the subject; that the thought to migrate originated entirely within him­ people of the North, "could be confidently relied on to organize and self, inspired by a sense of intolerable oppression and injustice. There provide the needed funds." This was the first suggestion, as far as I a.re abundant facts of record which show this to be not true. I here know, of the organization of emigrant aid societies which sprung up ' assert that the first dawning of the idea of a negro exodus into the so rapidly almost immediately afterward. "Organize and provide Northern States and Territories, the first conception and the first the needed funds.I" These are the words of the Senator from Minne­ announcement of such a purpose, occurred in the North, and was orig­ sota, spoken with reference to the action of the Northern people iJ:! inated by leaders of the republican party. I assert that it was a their efforts to promote the negro exodus from the Southern to the lesson taught to the negro, not by his sufferings or misfortunes in the Northern States, and they were acted upon at various points with­ South, but by political partisan leaders in the North. I shall not out delay. The voice of the Sena.tor was heeded, as it ought to be, dwell on the well-known and well-proven fact that as early as the by his party followers. His counsels were accepted by his party as­ autumn of 1878 republican newspapers in Indiana, edited by repub­ sociates, both white and black, and societies were at once organized lican Federal officials, were openly and systematically engaged in en­ to " provide the needed funds." One was formed in this city and one couraging negroes to come and settle in that State, avowedly for in Saint Louis. It is a circumstance to be noted and remembered political ends. A democratic State ticket had just been elected by that between Washington City and Saint Louis the only other emi­ 13,000 majority, a democratic Legislature by a majority still larger, grant aid societies were established in Indiana. Captain 0. S. B. and the camp of the republica.n party was desolate, its colors were in Wall, a republican, a colored man, and president of the emigI."ant the dust, its haughty pride was broken, and it cried out piteously aid society at this place, testified on the point in question as fol­ for the negro to come, and to come in large numbers, to its aid. Pas­ lows: sionate appeals were made editorially, and circulars were printed of Question. Where was this emigrant a.id society organized of which yon are the the most enticing character for distribution in the South. The Ban­ president¥ ner, a very prominent republican paper, published at Greencastle, Answer. A.t the house of Mr. A.dams, the secretary. Indiana, and edited by Mr. Langsdale, the postmaster at that large Q. Where was that 9 A.. At the corner of Fourteenth and V street;i. and important town, appears to have been selected to do most of this Q. In this city¥ work, while the whole republican press of the State and all the lead­ A. Yes, sir. ers of that party stood by either in silent or outspoken approval of Q. Is this the parent society, or are there branches of this emigrant aid society 1 its course. Not a whisper bad been beard from the negroes themselves A. This is the parent society and the only one. Q. You mean there are no branches~ -0n this subject up to that time. The thought of emigrating in large A. None that I know of. There are no auxiliaries that I know of exceptin$, in bodies from theit homes in. the South had not until then occurred to this sense, that we were organized first and that others which were organized aner- 4142 CONG~ESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. ward showed a. deference to us, being first or~an.ized and being located at the na.­ Q. Did you live there in 1872 9 ~~~~ capital. We have never given authority to any other society in any other A. I lived there in 1872. I was there from 1863 to 1873, ten years. I went there as an officer of the Army. I became identified with the int.erests of the colored Q. Are there any other similar societies, to your knowledge, tn the United States 7 people in that way, and am now, and eXJ>ect to be for some time t.o come. A. I learn by the papers and by hearsay that there are a. number of them. Q. State where they a.re, as far as you know. In point of fact General Conway is recognized as one of the most A. There a.re one or two in Kansas, I have heard. * * * Then I have read or prominent men in the country connected with the agitation and pro­ heard, I do not know which, that there were some in Indiana. and some in Penn­ motion of negro emigration. When before the committee he stated sylvania, N11w York, and other places which I cannot now recall. I have heard this in a general sort of way. that he was then on his way" to New Mexico to pioneer for about Q. There are several in IJldiana, you say ~ one hundred thousand of these people who are coming out of the A. I have heard so or read so, or both. South this spring and summer, with means to buy land in their own Q. Where a.re those located that are in Indiana. 7 behalf." Bearing General Conway's conspicuous position on this sub­ A. I think I have heard there is an organization at Greencastle. I understand there is one at Indianapolis. I think I have read of another at some other place ject in mind, let us next see what his movements were almost imme­ in Indiana., but as to that I will not undertake to be explicit. diately upon the delivery of the speech of February 7, 1879, by the This republioan witness, a. zealons friend of the exodus and of his Senator from Minnesota. Within less than a. month afterward Gen­ party, here proves as plainly as human testimony can prove any eral Conway reached this city for cons~tation with the leaders of fact that there were two and perhaps three emigrant aid societies the republican party in regard to the negro exodus. He states in his organized in Indiana to encourage negro emigration to that State, testimony that he especially consulted the late Senator Chandler, and to provide the needed funds. One was at lndianauolis, one at who was at that time the very able chairman of the republican na­ Greencastle, and the other most likely, though not so stated by the tionR.l committee. No one will dispute that Mr. Chandler: when alive, witness, at Terre Haute. These societies were secret so fa,r as the and in that position, dictated and shaped the policy and political man­ general public was concerned. Their existence was unknown except agement of his party more than any other man in it. General Con­ to those connected with them until the present investigation exposed way says that he warmly and enthusiastically embra.ced the exodus them. The great body of the people of Indiana did not know that movement, thus giving it the full and cordial approval and support secret organizations were at work in their midst, pursuant to the of the official head of the republican party. Thus equipped and suggestion of the Senator from Minnesota, to induce negroes in large strengthened in his faith and i>urposes General Conway tells us that numbers to come into the State, and to provide means for the trans­ he started Sooth by way of t he West. Let it be remembered that portation of such as were paupers. It was at first a hidden conspir­ this waa in March, 1879, at least six months before negroes com­ acy, so far as Indiana was concerned, to stock the State with a menced to arrive in Indiana, and then the following testimony of the worthless black population. The cons pirators.,...-()f course I do not General's before the committee becomes luminous with meaning: use that word in connection with the Senator from Minnesota-moved Question. You visit.ad Indiana on that trip, did you not7 about for a time in the dark and fancied themselves secure from ex­ Answer. I stopped a.t Indianapolis on my way. Q. You made some pleasant acquaint.'Ulces there, I hope'I posure. That the object of the conspiracy wa._R to assist the repub­ A. I did, sir. lican party and to secure its ascendency in Indiana, if possible, is a Q. Whom did yon meet 9 matter of the clearest demonstration under the proof. A.. A number of the citizens; I knew some parties there; and some whom I did Mr. WINDOM. Would it interrupt the Senator if! should ask him not know I made the acquaintance of while I was there. Q. How Ion~ did yon remain there~ where those secret societies were organized, and what class of people A. I think tn.ree Clays. composed them °I Q. During that time you saw Mr. Martindale, the editor of the Journal¥ Mr. VOORHEES. The Senatoroan answer that from the evidence, A. I believe I did. Q. You saw Mr. New. the chairman of the republican State committee 9 just as well as I can. A. I saw Mr. New; I didn't know whether he was the chairman of the repub- Mr. WINDOM. I should like to have the Senator answer. lican State committee or not. · Mr. VOORHEES. I will discuss that with the Senator at another Q. Did you know Colonel Dudley 'l time. A. The name ia familiar to me, but I do not remember meeting him. Q. Do you know Colonel Holloway, the postmaster I Mr. WINDOM. I will state here, then, that there was no such thing A. Yes, sir. in the proof. Q. Do you know Colonel Straight, a candidate for governor there 1 Mr. VOORHEES. I say there was, and I will show there was by A. No, sir; I knew him by name, but not personally. the proof. Q. Well, General Conway, you know we have a. prying curiosity in this com. mittee. I want to know of you now why you staid there these three days 1 Mr. WINDOM. Then it stands between the Sena.tor's assertion ::i.nd A. Well, sir, I waa tired, and the journey was a tiresome one, and Indianapolis mine. is a. pleasant city, and I wished to see what could be done regarding these labor­ Mr. VOORHEES. It does net stand upon our say-so, for I shall ers, as to getting employnumt for them, and I thought these gentlemen would show it by the evidence here, and will submit it to the country, in know about that as well a~ anybody I could find. Q. Did you meet with reasonable encouragement 1 the clearest possible manner. A. Yes, sir; a. good deal of it. I waa told, and information came in there, that Mr. WINDOM. I feel myself at liberty to ask leave of the Sena­ five or ten thousand could find employment in Indiana. tor to correct him at that point, when, although speaking respect­ Q. Was that the opinion of these gentlemen 7 fully of myself, he says that there was a secret conspiracy of which A. Yes, sir; I think it was. I also met two or three Quakers there, and one of them said he had been through tho State, and he showed me a long list of names. I was a part. of farmers who would give them employment. Mr. VOORHEES. I said the Senator was not a part, distinctly. Q. Then it was not disguised between you and these gentl0111en that it would b& Mr. WINDOM. I deny that there was any conspiracy of any kind, of political advantage to the State, as well as to these' negroes themselves, to bring them there, waa it 1 or that the proof shows there waa any secret society in Indiana. to A. Not at all, sir; I so regarded it, and I think so still. encourage a. single colored man to come into that State. Q. And so did they I Mr. VOORHEES. If the Senator thinks he can inject that sort of A. Yes, sir. a denial into my speech, we shall see about that hereafter. If he will Q. From your party st.and-point, you think it is tlesirable to carry Indiana for the republicans 7 sit and listen until I get through, if I do nvt demonstrate to him the A. Undoubtedly so, sir. truth of what I have said, and to the satisfaction of every man of every Q. And they looked upon it in the same light, did they 7 color and of every shade of politics, I will agree that what I say to­ A. I think they would be great fools if they did not; I think they did. day goes for naught. Q. You spoke of going to Saint Louis and Iri.dianapolis, and then returning here t A. I returned to Indianapolis. Mr. WINDOM. I shall certainly listen with great- Q. Where from 7 Mr. VOORHEES. I decline to yield. The Senator knows that this A. I returned from Kansas to Quincy, Illinois, and to Chicago, a.nd then canie- is not the kind of a speech which is usua-lly interrupted. ba<}k to Indiaoopolls. . The PRESIDING OFFICER, (Mr. GROOME in the chair.) The Sen­ Q. How long were you there the second time 1 A. Aboota.-day. ator from Indiana declines to yield, and cannot be interrupted with­ Q. Did you meet some of the same gentlemen 'l out his consent. A. Yes, sir. Mr. VOORHEES. Other results, however, besides the formation Q. Did you find the negroes arriving at Saint Louis when you got there 7 of secret emigrant aid societies immediately followed the speech A. Yes, sir; they were arriving before I started. Q. And you tried to divert them to Indiana. 7 of the Senator from Minnesota.. In the course of that speech the A. Yes, sir; I told the com.mitt.ea I thought it advisable not to send any mor& Senator quoted from and complimented Rev. General Thomas W. to Kansas-that manv of them were wanted" in Indiana., Illinois, and other States, Conway, who seems from his mixed title to have handled the weap­ and I thought it would be better for them to go there. ons of both spiritual and temporal warfare. A.nd who is General Q. Did you report to these gentlemen in Indianapolis that/ou had met and en­ couraged these people to come to Indiana.; in other words, di yon inform them of Conway 'f The Sena.tor, not content with quoting him as high au­ what you said to that committee at Saint Louis 7 thority here in the Senate, called him aa a witness before the exodus A. I think I did give them a. general idea of what I had done. committee. We there learned the history of his connection with the Q. Then ~d yo~ return further east-come ba.ck here 7 affairs of the negro race. I read from his testimony before the com­ A. Yes, sir; I did. mittee: Sir, it has been iterated and reiterated until the very air is weary Question. Will you please state what your connection has been with the educa­ of the falsehood that no proof has been made before the committee in­ tion of the colored race, or your opportunities for knowing its condition generally 1 culpating the leaders of the republican party of Indiana. as conspira­ Answer. I was commissioner of the Freedmen's Bureau by appointment of the President. I was superintendent for the Department of the Gulf, under General tors to overthrow the democratic ma.jority in that State by an impor­ Banks, in 1864; and when the bureau waa organized in 1865 I was appointed com­ tation of negro voters. Men have been hung and justly hung on evi­ missioner for Louisiana, and also Alabama. until General Swayne was appointed dence far less conclusive of crime than is here submitted against the for that State; then I remained commissioner for Louisiana. until 1866. Subse­ most prominent men of the republican party of Indiana, implicating. quently I was State superintendent of education for that State. Q. For how long a time 9 · them in an attempt to rescue their broken political _fortunes by colo­ A. For five years; up to 18i2. nizing the African element of the South. I challenge and defy con- 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4143 tradiction on this · point. I have no desir~ to assail anybo_dr ; very A I encouraged aa many of them to go there as I could-first, because I believed they could get good wages, and second, to help out the republican cause and raise far from it · but General Conway i~ the peer m character, position, and the negro to a higher civilization. I think he is a good republican and a good loyal influence~ the republican party of a?y ma~ ii;t Indiana mentioned citizen, and should be allowed to vote.; therefore I have not liked the iaea to ex­ by him in ~is testimony, ?r. me~ by him while m that ~tate on the clude politics from the exodus. I think the negro ought to go where he can do the exodus busrness. I do no lllJUStice to Mr. New, Mr. Martmdale, Col?­ most fr~! for himself and the republi~~ party. Q. 'tit been something of a failure rather-your trying to get them to go nel Dudley, Colonel Holloway, or General Straigh~, or any on~ else, m to Indiana.! . making this statement. Yet General c.~mway, with no possible !110- A. Yes, sir; I think so. I have ~en desirous to see a good many of them go~ tive to injure his brethren, but rather with a. strong motive to shield there. I wanted to see the democrats beaten, and I wanted the negroes to go m them, swears directly and explicitly that he hal~d three days at I!1- there and help do it. Q. How many voters do you suppose have gone in there! dianapolis on his trip South to aid the exodus m ord~r to.ascertain A. If all had gone whom I ad.vised to go there would have been fifteen or twenty what encourauement, if any, there was for negro enngration to In­ thousand. diana · that hethere met the chairman of the republican State central Must I pause to dwell upon and enforce the conclusive character committee the editor of the recognized State organ of the republican of such testimony as this T Who now .will pra~e of the absen.c~ of party, the' postmaster of the city of Indianapolis, and many others, proof that the emigration of negroes mto Indiana was a political and that be was assured by them thatfrom five to ten thousandnegroes scheme known, planned, fostered, and carried on by.the leader~ of the could find employment in that State. republican party t General ponway ~as not my. witness; he is a. re­ The numbers here spoken of were to be voters, not encumbered publican of stalwart proportions, a prime mover m the exodus agita­ by wemen and children, for when Ge~eral Conwa3'.' was asked. whetb~r tion, following closely in the wake of ~he speecl~ ~f the ~en a tor from the gentlemen with whom he was m consultation at Indian~~olis Minnesota. Ont of the mouths of their own political friends and as­ understood that the emigration of the negroes was to be of political sociates the now revealed conspirators against the right, the sover­ ad vantage to the State, and for the purpose of carrying the State _for eign right of the people of Indiana to govern themselves without the the republicans, he answered that they under~tood the whole ~h.mg assistance of imported pauper negroes, stand naked and condemned. and gave it great encouragement. Thus ~gam assured of polit!cal What answer has been made or can be made 'f General Conway says co-operation. in his efforts, General Conway .l?urney~d OJ:?-fJ;om Indian­ that the plan so far as Indiana is concerned has been a fai~ure ; he apolis to Saint Louis and thence to Kansas City. His mission to those says he wanted enough negroes there to defeat the democratic party; cities was a most natural one in the light of his stay at Indianapolis. he wanted and advised that fifteen or twenty thousand should be He says that he found neg~oes arriving there fro~ th:e South, and colonized in that great State, and in the absence of something like tried to divert them to Indiana. Of course he did; it was so ar­ that number he concedes that his missionary labors for the republican ranged so stipulated in secret political conclave. Conway's move­ party in the matter of negro importation has not been a success. The ments ~nd labors were the result of no vague, uncertain, ill-defined failure of this unworthy undertaking, however, is not due to •any plan of action. He moved from the national headquarters. of th.e want of zeal or unscrupulous industry on the part of its authors. It republican party in this city to the headquart.ers of that party m Indi­ has failed as a political conspiracy because it has been exposed by ~n ana and from there under instructions to Missouri and Kansas. He honest, active, aggressive investigation. It was only dangerous while eve~ returned to Indianapolis to report his proceedings further west. it was comparatively in the dark. ~ scheme so ~atur~l and n.ef~ He testifies that on his return east he stopped over and reported to rions perishes when dragged to the light of day. Those engaged m it his friends in Indianapolis that he had met and encouraged emigrat­ are crippled and rendered P?Werless by th~ scorn a..ndcontempt of the ing negroes to come to Indiana, thus putting the~ i1;1 entire P?S~es­ public as soon as they are disclosed by reliable ev1de;11ce. . sion of every detail of this scheme of colored colomzation for political But leaving at this point the overwhelming, crashmg testimony of purposes. He had advised with the leading men of Kansas, and it General Conway, I proceed to other facts which es~ablish the exist­ had been agreed that the heavy stream o~ coloreC!- emigration sh.ould ence of an infamous political plot to subvert the will of the people be diverted, if possible, from ~hat s.t~te mto I!ld1ana, and ~ll this ~e of Indiana by the procurement of an objectionable negro population. faithfully commnnica~d to his political coa~Jntors at Indiana.polis. Hear him, in the followmg passage of refreshrng frankness : Among the earliest witnesses called before the committee was H. W. Mendenhall, of Wayne County, Indiana, and now in ~~vernme!1t em­ Question. Recurring to the point whom did yon principally see a~ Indianapolis f ployment in this city. He was a member of the or1gmal e~grant Answer. I saw a number of gen4emen there who were m~z:este?- m the D?l!'~r­ some who were purely philanthropic, and some who were distingm.shed politicians. aid society founded in this city, and was placed on the COfD:mI~tee to Q Name some of those distinguished politicians. audit its accounts. It was understood that he had made a significant A.. I do not think I could name any except those whom you mentioned-MesBrs. speech at the first or second meeting of the society, and the follow­ New and Martindale, and others. Q. They knew what your purposes were i . ing is a portion of his testimony when called before the exodus com­ A . Yes, sir; distinctly, sir ; and the whole co~~y knew it. . . mittee: Q. And as 3;10U unde!'stoo?- th~m, ~ey wei:e willing to co-operate with you m Question. Have you ever been in the South! turning a portion of this emigration mto Ind1ana.1 Answer. No,sir. A. Yes, sir. . Q . .And you knew nothing of the condition of the people there 1 Q. With whom did yon principally talk in Kansas upon this subJect 1 A. No, sir; except what is a pa!t of the history of the country. A. I talked with a great many eyerywhere I went. There we~ probably fifteen Q. That is, what yon have read m the newspapers! . thousand people at Lawrence, where I made a speech on the subJect, and that at- A. I havo read something in the newspapers, and I generally read and bellev& tracted a good deal of atteation to me. . . . what I see in a. newspaper, if it is a republican newspaper. Q . .cl.part from that, did yon talk with proIDlDent ~en, there about tbe desira­ Q. What kind of a newspaper did you read it in 1 bility of diverting a portion of these people from theu State to other Northern A. I only take the best papers. , and Western States 'I Q. Do you read any democratic paper ~ . A. Yes, sir; I talked to Governor St. Jo~ , ReY. Mr: Munjoe, and others. A. I do not know that I do particularly, but I have seen some things from th& Q. The sentiment in Kansas among promment men like Governor St. John was Southern Okalona States. that there was somo dread they would get more of these people than was g<;><>d for Q. But you believe all that you read in a republican paper! the State or the colored people, and one feature of the plan was then to divert a A. Yes, sir; I think I would. good deal of it elsewhere 1 Q. Then yon read something in these newspapers to the effect that the negroes A. Yes, sir; that was the sentiment. · were in bad condi'tion ! Q. When you came back to h1dianapolis, did yon make known to Mr. N ew and A. Yes, sir; I think the report I read was in a republican paper. . Mr. Martindale that yon bad conversed with prominent men in Kansas, and that Q. Didn't yon state in your speech that the negroes would do better by ~omg to. an effort would be ma.de to divert some of these people to Indiana 1 Indiana? • A. I believo I did. I desire just here t:> make this farther statement: In regard .A. No, sir. . . to tho inquiries ma.de of me aa to whether I ha?- any ~olitical objec~s in vie~ in Q. What inducement did you state would be held out to them m Indiana! connection with Indiana, or any other State, I WISh to mterpolate this: I believe A. None. that the negro is a useful man; that be is !'1' ~aw-abiding man, naturally; and I deem Q. Did yon say anything on the subject 1 it a great wrong t.o him to express the opllllon that he would be a detriment to any A. I had never seen or beard at that time anything about people·coming from Northern Stat.e. He serred us faithfully in the war, as he had previously worked the South to Indiana. faithfully in time of peace. There are fewer dependents, and pauper~, and vaga. Q. Did JOU say anything about it yourself in your speech ~ bonds, in proportion t.o thei.: numbe~. among the!ll than among the ~bites. .I ha~e A. Yes, sir ; I did. had as much to do with their education and their care as any white man m this Q. What did yon say 1 country and I have O'enerally found them willing t.o work ; willing to abide by the A. I will tell you exactly; or rather ¢ve you the substance, as I cannot tell the to laws e.:en thouuh they are op:pressivt\; willing go to school and get an educa­ language precisely. I stated that their persecution was as much as ~ey could tion to whate>e; extent is possible. I should not hesitate t.o advise any community bear and that if Indiana could ofter inducements to these people I felt like a great to welcome them or hesitate to advise them t.o go to any community or :my State, number of them would go there; and I stick right there now. . . Indiana included'. Of course the.r vote the republican ticket ; I am very gfad they Q. Didn't yon state in your speech that as these negroes were gomg to eIDJgrate do· I hope they al ways will· I haYe , and I al ways expect to. To whatever part of you would like to have a large number of them come to Indiana 1 the country they may go, I hope they will conti.D.ue to vote the republican ticket, 0 A. Yes, sir; I knew that a. great number of them, if not all, v.oted. the repnb· because it is in the interests of their race, and in the interests of the country at lican ticket. and I would like amazinirly to see them come there, JUSt the same l!-S large-in the interests of a higher civilization.. Hence I have no hesitation ~say­ yon to see the Irish coming in there because they generally vote the democratic ing that I should advise tlie negro to go to Indiana, both on the ground of hi.s use­ ticket. fulness and bis merit.5. Q. You were in favor of their going there to vote 1 Q. Both a-s a laborer and as a Yoter 7 A. Yes, sir; I was. A. Yes, sir. And still further, when this most conspicuous and active evangelist Here we find a representative man of the republican party of In­ of the exodus was under examination by the Senator from Minnesota, diana, holding office under the present Administration, striking o.u~ at he testified in regard to the plot against the people of Indiana. in the once at the earliest possible moment for political a.;~~';JS j~~~usiness over the lines of road; and that was the only way in A. Yes, sir. G~~~!l~~~:rr~Wa1Jt!'.? know what it wonld cost to send these people t,o Q. Do you think you were instrumental in getting them to go over that road 1 A. I hoped to be so. A. Yes, sir. Q. I mean did you get them to go, or did Reynolds get them 7 Q. W:i.s that before or after this lot was sent 7 '.A.. Well, sir, I was talking to Perry and others to go over that road, and Rey­ A. It was before. nolds did not seem to care which wa.y they went. I tried to influence them to go Q. Did you tell him 7 over tba.t road, and they went. A. Yes, sir; I gave him the rate. Q. Mr. Morris, what number of tickets did he fa.rnish you 7 Q. Did he make a memorandum of it¥ A. He did not furnish me the tickets; he furnished me the numbers of twenty- A. No, sir; I think not. aeven full tickets. Q. Did the conversation between you stop there7 Q. Where did he get those tickets 1 ant·ailf ~!t~; we talked on in a general way aa to the number that were coming, A. He purchased them there at the Union depot. Q. He bought them ¥ Q. What did he say 7 A. Yes, sir. !!si:~~~ ~e~~~~~~uft~t had gone out, and how many would come. Q. With his own money 1 n!t A. I do not know, sir, whero the money came from. I saw him at the window, and afterward be came and gave me the numbers. The clerk of the State central committee of the republican party of Q. He is the railroad transfer mail agent there, is he not 7 Indiana is here discovered making special inquiries of a railroad pas­ A. Yes, sir. senger agent as to the cost of sending negroes from Indianapolis to Q. Employed under the Government 1 Greencastle and to Terre Haute. It was no casual or accidental A. Yes, sir. Q. And you don't know whether he was buying those tickets with his own money meeting between Morris and Horton, as men meet on the street. Mor­ -or somebody else's 1 ris says he " came down and inquired of me how much it would cost A. No, sir. to send these people to Greencastle and Terre Haute." A general talk Here we witness the local mail agent at Indianapolis, an office­ on the subject ensued; the number already arrived and the probable holder, and of course a republican, engaged in buying tickets for the number yet to come were discussed. Will it be presumed that Hor­ transportation of the constantly arriving colored voters to different ton was doing all this on individual account f On the contrary, when parts of the State. Twenty-seven tickets, which Morris sa.w him pur­ General Conway's testimony is remembered, implicating lli. New, the chase at that time from Indianapolis to Greencastle, wonld cost about chairman of the republican State central committee, the inference is $42. Who furnished Reynolds with that money Y It is not pretended irresistible that the clerk of his committee was acting under his in­ that it was his own. Where did he get it Y But before answering that structions in ascertaining how much money was likely to be needed question I will read a portion of the testimony of Thomas P. Mills re­ in locating these people after their arrival at Indianapolis in the close lating to another transaction similar to that described by Morris. or doubtful democratic counties of the State. In the light of all the His testimony on that point is as follows: proof no candid mind can doubt that Reynolds, the mail-carrier, re­ Question. Is there any other financial transaction in reference to this matter with lied upon the republican State central committee for the means to which you are acquainted 1 carry outtheworkhe wa.sinstructed to do; and there is just aslittle Answer. Yes, sir. There was money raised to send them to Greencastle. doubt that the prompt response to the demand for 625, transporta­ Q. Do you know how much¥ · tion funds, came from the same source. bu!in!s~~n ' t know exactly how many went, but I know it was a grand day in tho What next, however, do we find as evidence of a political scheme Q. It was a pretty good day in the business 'I to colonizenegroesin Indiana.in the interest of therepublicanpartyf A. Yes, sir. .Almost every Federal official in the State has taken an active interest Q. Do you know who raised that money to take them to Greencastle 1 in it. The Post-Office Department and the postal service generally A. Well, I went down to see in reference to it, because, as Mr. Morris has told you, we wanted to get the number of the tickets, and I heard there was quite a seem to have been placed at its disposal. This was most natural. number of them down there, and I went to see how mauy of them there were and That Department has agents on every railroad and officials at almost where they were going. I went down there and saw about it, and I spoke to Mr. every station in the United States. Its means for promoting and facil­ Reynolds a.bout it. Q. What occurred Qetween you and Reynolds 9 itating an immigration like the one under consideration are vast and A. He reached me the tickets and I tookthen·1mbers; and I asked if they wero widespread, and they have not been idle in this instance. The post­ fixed, and he said: "I have sent a man up town to get the money and fix them." master at Indianapolis, Colonel William R. Holloway, one of the most Q. Do you remember how many tickets there were 1 efficient republicans in the State, put his hand to the work. A colored A. There were from fifty to seventy-five. Q. Are you personally acquainted with Mr. Reynolds'I man by the name of A. W. Heath, from Lenoir County, North Caro­ A. Yes, sir. lina, reached Indianapolis, and after sojourning there a few days was Q. What position does he hold~ seized with a desire to visit Greencastle. When he arrived at Green­ A. He is mail agent. castle he met Moses T. LeFman, the sheriff of the county, and in Q. Where1 A. At the Union depot at Indianapolis. speaking of the kindness extended to him told Lewman that he had Q. If you understand it, what is his duty¥ To see that the mail is transferred come over in the mail-car free of charge. This was a criminal viola­ from the depot to the office, and from the office to the depot t tion of law on the part of the mail agent in that car, but it appears A. Yes, sir. that Heath had.equipped himself before starting with high authority Q. It is a verv important office, then? A. Yes, sir; '.I believe so. for all his movements. Colonel Holloway had given him two small Q. Is it an office of appointment by the Government or by the postmaster! slips of paper full of meaning. They will be found on page 189 of A. Yes, sir; I think it is by appointment from the Government. the first volume of the evidence. On one was written, "Union depot. X-260 •

4146 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 4,.

~ail office, Reynolds." This was a direction to the negro, who could traveling expenses to Saint Louis and other distant points, but also both read and write, to call on Reynolds at the mail office in the who contributed to assist in defraying his telegraphic correspondence. Union depot for a start. On the other paper was written the fol­ Whatever may be his zeal and energy in the cause, he was not doing lowing: all this himself. Postmaster Langsdale, and Mr. Clay, colored, at Greencastle, Putnam County, But there is still another exploit of Walker's which calls for passing on the Terre Haute Railroad. Private. Tell these gentlemen more si.re coming. attention. He obtained leave of absence to attend a colored conven­ And on the back of this paper is written, in a well-known hand, tion, during the summer of 1879, at Nashville, Tennessee. Upon his "Holloway, P. M." Heath was thus commended by Ho11oway, post­ return he issued his circular, not for publication in the newspapers, master, to his brother postmaster, Langsdale, and to Mr. Cfay, a col­ but for distribution in quarters where they "would do the most ored preacher, engaged in sending false and sensational circulars to good." As it has, however, been widely published during the prog­ the South to induce colored emigration to Indiana. Heath was also ress of this investigation, I will not read it here in fnll. In it he instructed to tell Langsdale and Clay that more were coming, .and announced that he had demands from different localities in Indiana. thewbole thingwas then marked "private." "Tell these gentlemen for the presence of eighteen hundred negro families in the State. He more are coming." Yes; more were coming, and Colonel Holloway cried to the negro population of the South to come-6ome one, come and all his prominent political associates at Indianapolis not only all; that the laborers were few in Indiana and the harvest was great. knew the fact, as he here states, but they were engaged in bringing Eighteen hundred families ! Whether W a.Iker exaggerated the num­ them. Do these papers, given by Holloway to the negro, Heath, ap­ ber he was to look after or not, this statement shows on what a vast pear to have emanated from one who was ignorant of the colored sen.le he understood the importation to have been arranged by t.bose emigration to Indiana or opposed to its success Y The very reverse is above him. It was no light shower that Walker had been taurrht to­ true. They prove conclusively that there was a plan armnged, a con­ expect. He anticipated a flood. He was jubilant at the prgspect spiracy organized, whose future operations were known to the writer, for the republican party. Paul K. McCoskey, a republican and one and that he was engaged with others in laboring to advance the cause. of the oldest, most reliable, and respected citizens of Terre Haute They show that Langsdale, in his open and shameless avowal in his speaking of Walker in his testimony before the committee, says: ' paper that negro colonization was necessary and proper in order to A day or two after he came back from that convention down South he saw me defeat the democratic party in Indiana, had the full confidence and and ran over to meet me on the street. He seemed to be in a >ery izood way and zealous co-operation of the most prominent leaders of his party. In­ I think he had liquor in him. I asked him what was the matter, and he said he had made a good thing out of his trip. He said he had made arrangements to turn. stead of their condemnation, he received confidential words of warm the negro emigrants into Indiana so as to get 1ien thousand in there and carry the­ encouragement. "Private. Tell those gentlemen more are coming." State. Let these w::i.tchwords of a nefarious conspiracy to outrage the peo­ ple of Indiana, debauch her ballot-box, and degrade her laboring Walker states in the letter I havejustquoted thathe was going to Saint Louis to turn the ne~ro emigrants into Indiana, and yet, when men and women by an association with the' pauper blacks of the Mccoskey swears that he told him he had been in the same business South, be remembered whenever that conspira-0y is denied. The exactly at Nashville, the truth of McCoskey's statement, I see, has secrets of such plots as this are always kept with the utmost care, been questioned. Walker convicts himself ::i.bsolutely, and beyond a but here and there a fact or a circumstance will escape concealment, word of doubt, by his letter to Adams of the same thing testified to in the light of which everything is at once made clear. by McCoskey, and his tongue being a little loosened he imparted to­ But to proceed. At the fair and beautiful city of Terre Haute, my his republican friend that it would enable them to carry the State. own home, my neighbors and friends are blessed with a United States Mr. McCoskey needs no corroboration where he is known. If he did mail agent whose duties are the same as those performed by Rey­ he would have it most amply in the letter of Walker to Adams. Ile nolds at Indianapolis. He transfers the mail between the post-office would also have it in the testimony of Charles H. Stoddarcl, another and depot. He has found it consistent with his Government duties republican citizen of Terre Haute, who made the following statement and with the instructions of his superiors to engage very extensively on this point before the committee: in the business of negro importation into Vigo and surrounding coun­ ties. Being of that race himself, be has been used as a decoy to induce Question. Do yon know Paul McCoskey, who was examined here as a witness from Terre Haute 7 others in large numbers to light down in that part of Indiana. The pos­ Answer. I do, sir. tal se),'Vice appears to have received gener::i.l orders on this subject Q. State whether yon were present when Mr. Mccoskey and Mr. Walker, the throughout the State. Early in the investigation we overtook Walker, colored mail agent at Terre Haute, who carries the mail from the post-office to the the Terre Haute mail agent, working with a zeal which blinded him to depot, had a conversation on the subject of the Nashville convention of colored people and also on the subject of bringing negroes into the State of Indiana. for po­ the truth, and showed him so intent on the scheme that he cared but litical purposes. little for the correctness of his representations. On page 92 of the A. I did hear a conversation in r egard to something on that question. first part of the printed testimony will be found three letters from Q. Just state what it was that yon heard. him, obtained in the examination of Captain Wall, the president of A. Coming np Main street going west Mr. Walker called to Mr. Mccoskey, and I wished to see him myself, and came np about the same time ; he was a little be­ the Washington Emigrant Aid Society. fore me, and I waited; and he spoke about the Nashville convention being a good In one of these letters, addressed to Mr. Ad::i.ms, former secretary one. of the society, and written in November last, WvJker holds out be­ Q. Who spoke of that 1 wildering inducements to the colored emigrant. He makes and re­ A. Mr. Walker, the mail agent, spoke of it. Q. Yes? peats the statement that "there never was such a demand for farm­ A. And sai.d that he bad made arrangements to bring some colored men into the hands and laborers of a,ll classes" as prevailed at that time in Indiana. State, and he also stated the number, but I ha.ve forgotten how many thousands h~ He says that farmers were paying from $15 to $20 per month and said. board. Speaking of the great coal mines of Western Indiana, he says Q. It was thousands, was it1 A. Yes; from ten to twelve thousand, I think, (I conldnot say the exact num that within the last few days, prior to writing this letter, he had re­ ber,) to carry the State at the election. ceived applications for at least five hundred miners, and that at one Q. For what party1 mine alone, at that time, two hundred men could get work. The A. The republican. Q. What further conversation took place between them 7 miner, he said, could make from $2.50 to $4 per day. With an en­ A. That was about all the conversation that took pla-0e, I believe, :is near as I ticing reference to the equality of -the races in the schools of Indiana can remember. this letter concludes. * * * * • * .. In another brief note Walker makes the following important state­ 0. Mr. Stoddard, what are your politics 9 ment: A. I am a republican, sir. I am going to Saint Louis, Missouri, which is one hundred and sixty-five miles It is only necessary to add, so far as W a.Iker is concerned, that with from here, and make arrangements to get refugees to come this way, but this is a all his conduct fully known he is still in office and enjoys in a high private matter. degree the favor and confidence of the leaders of his party ; that he Under the laws and regufations of the postal service a United has received no word of rebuke or condemnation for his course, either­ States mail agent has no right to leave his post of duty without offi-_ from the Republican press of Terre Haute or of any place else, but, cial leave granted. I presume Walker had no difficulty in obtaining on the contrary, has been warmly defended in everything he has done such leave when he made known the object of his errand. Whether or tried to do. carrying the mail from day to day, and almost from hour to hour, at Allow me to turn now to another objective point of negro importa.­ Terre Haute, or absent in Saint Louis arranging for negroes "to come tion into Indiana. The county of Shelby is held in high apprecia­ this way," be was still in the employ of a republican administration, tion by the democratic party of the State because of her reliable dem­ and under pay out of the public Treasury. ocratic majority, and for the same reason she is an object of hatred The third of these epistles from Walker reads as follows: and evil machinations on the part of the leaders of the republican TERRE HAUTE, INDIANA, January 5, 1880. party. As a consequence of this a column of colored importation was MY DEAR Sm: I am directed to write yon concernin~ the colored refugees leav­ headed across her borders. In the language of Pharisaical republi­ ing Washington for Indiana. I was directed by Mr. Perry to write you. Now, can cant she was to be redeemed and her civilization raised to a wliat I want is this: The first time you have llnY"Of those people on hand, and want­ higher plane. To show that the villainous plot was fully understood ing to come to this State, please send me about fifteen families. I have places for them as soon as they can get here ; and if such should be the case, telegraph me at by the leading men of the republican party in Shelby County I have my expense what day they will leave Washington for Terre Haute. simply to read from the testimony of Scott Ray, esq., one of the Please oblige yours, &o., most gifted and respected men of the State, on page 3:22 of part 1 J. H. W .ALKER, of the evidence. His testimony is aa follows: Terre Haute, Indiana. Captain WALL. Question. Mr. Ray, have you ever had any conversation with or heard him say 'anythin~ about this matter-I mean the chairman of the republican county com­ It would be curious to ascertain who furnished not only Walker's mittee of Shelby County1 •

1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4147

.Answer. Yes, sir; I had a conversation with Captain Byers. He has been the Q. Are you a republican 1 · chainnan of the republican county committee until within the last few days. A. Yes, sir; I am. . Q. What is his name 'I Q . .And you thought if you could get twenty thousand "bucks" you would slay A. Captain Henry S. Byers. us¥ Q. You say be has been, up to within a few days, the chairman of the republican A. I thought we would get away with you everlastingly. county committee¥ Q. Have you mixed with them much since they camenere 1 A. Yes, sir. A. The colored fblks ~ Q. State what conversation you had with him on the subject. Q. Yes. A. I had a conversation with him that day, which I reduced afterward to writing A. No, sir; except at the depot. We have one office near the depot, and when that same evening. a izans. was coming in I would go down there a.nd see them. Q. Have you it with you ¥ Q . .H.ave they come in as fast as you desired 7 A. I believe I have. A. They have not come in as I wanted them to. Q. Will you please produce it 'I Q. There have been rather more women and children than you wanted 7 f'.rhe witness produced a :paper.] A. Yes, sir; they have rather overdone the thing in the women and children. The CHAIRllAN. If you wish it, you can give it to the committee in the form as Q. Have you noticed, Mr. Mills, whether any considerable party of them have to you have it there. Was he at that time the chairman of the county republican be taken care of by charity 7 • committee'I A. Well, I could not t.ell yon, Mr. Senator. I have not been at their hea.dqu:.u- The WITh""ESB. I think they had appointed his successor on the Friday previous, ters much. and this was on the following Sunday evening. Q. Have yon been called upon to contribute to their support 9 Q. Cap ta.in Byers is a man of character and respectability, is he not 9 A. Not largely. A. Yes; he is one of the leading republicans of our county, and very generally Q. Were :you raised on a farm as well as your partner 1 esteem Ad . A . Yes, SU". Q. Wha.t is his age 1 Q. Of course you think these twenty thousand "bucks" could be scattered A. I suppose thirty-eight years. around and get employment throughout the State 1 Q. Did lrn ever hold any official position in your county¥ A. Y cs, sir; I thought we could get employment for them if we scattered them A. ~ o, sir; not in our county. prettv thin. Q. It is rather difficult for a republican to hold office in your county, is it not 'I Q. You mean in close counties 7 A. Yes, sir; our county is pretty solidly democratic. A. Yes, sir; in close counties and where there are cheap lands. Q. Now, will you please read that paper ¥ Q. Then you mean to scatter them in close counties where there are cheap lands! The witness read the paper, as follows: A. ;es, sir. "I bad a conversation with Captain Henry S. Byers, ex.chairman of the repub­ lican central committee of Shelby County, Indiana. on Sunday night, .January 25, Q. You are pretJ;y well read, Mr. Mills, in the newspapers of the State 1 1880, in the city of Shelbyville, in the presence of Edward Small and George M. A. Yes, sir; I read them pretty generally. Goulding, two of the leading merchants of the city, in which Mr. Byers said: Q. Now, will you tell this committee whether you have ever seen an article in ' There is no disguising the fact, Ray, the exodus movement of the colored men to f, republican newspaper opposing or condemning this movement of the negroes Y Indiana is a political movementof the republican party, as I know it to be a fact. A. I have not. We intend to carry Indiana with the aid of the negro vote, and if the republican Q. Do you read the democratic papers, too 1 11arty had taken my advice six years ago they woiild have set the movement on A. Yes, sir; and they everlastingly go for it. toot and brought them here long ago. 'Ve intend to bring eight thousand of them Q. Then I am to understand that the republican papers approve of it 9 into the State in time for them to vote this fall, and wiir place them in the close A. I should think they did, from their tone. congressional districts and into the close counties of Indiana. While it is rather * * • * * * expensive, it is cheaper for the party than to be compelled to buy votes on the day Q. You say, so far as yon know, you think your views are substantially shared in of election, as we have always had to do.' I asked him if he was in a position to by the republicans of your State. know whether it was an organized effort on the pa.rt of the republican managers to A .. I think they are as individuals. bring them into the State for political purposes, and he said he was, and then pro­ * * * * duced a letter with the heading of the republican Stat.e central committee printed Q. Did you ever talk with Mr. Martindale about this matter 1 npon it, but refused to read its contents. I asked him if he had contributed any A. Yes, sir; several times. money for the purpose of bringing the negroes who had lately come into Shelby Q. His pa.per is not disauproving of the movement! County, and he replied: 'Yes; I contributed all I was able to contribute.' Mr. A. No, sir. - .Byers for several years has been one of the leading republicans in Shelby County, Q. Rather encouraging it, is he not 7 and for several years has been its chairman." A. Yes, sir; I should say he was. Q. Who was that made in the presence of, what parties 'l A. Mr. George W. Goulding, a leading clothing merchant in our tmvn, ruJ.d Mr. Q. He has always announced that there was plenty of room in Indiana. for ne- Edward Small. groes 7 ' Q. What is Small's occupation ¥ A. Yes, sir. A. He is a confectioner, and sells newspapers and cigars, and has been there for Q. That they could get employment 1 a number of years. Both of them are men of high character and standing. A. Yes, sir. Q . .And that there wer~ good times there 1 ~· Yon say that Captain Byers produced a paper with the State centra.f commit· tees printed heading on it 7 A. Yes, sir. A. Yes, sir. Q . .And that they ought to get out of Egypt 7 Q. How much of the letter did you see¥ A. Yes, sir. A. No more than the heading. When I asked him if he was in a position to Thomas P. Mills is a man of as much character and respectability know whether this was a republican movement or not, he :pulled the letter out and as any examined by the committee, and that he revealed the true showed it to me, but he did not let me see the contents of it. Q. But he was thereby making the impression upon you that he was in commu­ purposes of his party associates is conclusively proven, not only by nication with headquarters upon this subject~ his own testimony, but also by all the powerful corroborating facts A. That was the impression I thought he intended to convey. brought to light in the course of the investigation. John C. New, the chairman of the republican State central committee, indorses him When it is reflected that Captain Byers and Mr. Goulding and Mr. aa a consistent republican for the last twenty-five or thirty years, and Small could all have been called by the minority of the committee in point of fact corroborates his testimony. While Mr. New was seek­ to contradict Mr. Ray, and that such a call was not made, it is at ing to deny the political motives of the negro emigration to Indiana, once evident that no contradiction was possible. The truth of his the following examination took place: , statement stands confessed by those most deeply interested in throw­ Question. Has it not been something like this : that you must steer clear of it as ing discredit upon it if they could do so. This is a well-known rule a political issue, but if these people wanted to come, to let them come 1 of law, and it never applied with greater force than in this instance. Answer. We certainly never intended to set up a barrier on the border of the Sir, in view of this long mountain range of evidence, convicting at State against whites or blacks or anybody else who seek to better their condition by every turn and development the republican party managers in In­ coming into the State. We have a large and prosperous State, demanding develop­ ment, and all of us are anxious that the State should be developed, and everything diana and elsewhere of a detestable political plot to obtain political that tends to promote its material wealth we are anxious to encourage. victory by imported voters, the frank and truthful testimony of Q. Did you think that it would tend to the material wealth of the State to en­ Thomas P ..Mills, of Indianapolis, becomes simply a very natural and courage these people to come into it, taking all the circumstances under which harmonious feature of a case already made out. His testimony is they come ? A. I think that an influx of labor upon our farms and into our workshops would found on page 201, part 1, of the printed evidence: certainly tend to the material prosperity of the State. TnoMAS P. Mn.LS sworn and examined. Q. Well, I am trying to get at the fact whether you thought that an influx of By the CHAIRMAN: this kind of labor-these people from North Carolina, coming in the condition that they are in, and as they do come into our State-would be to the material advanf;. Question. Where do you reside 7 age of the State. If so, just say so . .Answer. Indianapolis. A. If these people come-or rather, I would say, that the trouble with this popu­ Q. What do you do there 9 lation coming there, as has been reported to me, and as I have found by the investi­ A. Mr. Morris and I are partners in the real-estate and railroading business, &c., gation I have made upon the subject, is that about 90 per cent. of the influx has and dealing in western lands. been women and children. In that proportion I do not think it would add to the Q. What do you know about the immigration of negroes into Indianapolis and material wealth of the State. If they were operatives, if the proportion was as one­ Indiana.¥ half or one-third operatives, then I think it would add to the material prosperity A. I don't know as I know much about it. I know there have been a good many of the Stat.a. If, however, the percentage is as reported to me, and as the investi­ people go there. I gation that I have made upon it tends to show, 90 per cent. women and children, Q. Howmany 7 and they not operatives, then I think it is not to the material interest of the State A. I could not tell you. After they once pass there I lose sight of them. to come; that 18, not in that proportion. Q. Have you taken some interest in this matter 7 Q. In other words, withoutadoptingMills's language, therearetoomanywomen A. Yes, sir. and children coming; there onght to be more men and fewer women and children, Q. Yon have been in favor of emigration 1 you think 'I A. Yes, sir; I was very much in favor of it. I told the boys when they first came A . I mean that if they were producers, as these women and children are not, there that we wanted twenty thousand "bucks,'' buck n.l.ggers, in Indiana this looking at it as a matter of political economy, I do. Tu that the stand-point from year. which you ask me the question 7 Q. You mean to say that yon wanted twenty thousand men 1 Q. Yes; but I am not asking you reasons. I want to know if in point of fact A. Yes, sir. there were more men and fewer women and children it would help the State to Q. You had no use for women~ have them come into it, in your opinion 7 A. No, sir; we had no special use for them. A. Yes, sir; I think it would; I have no doubt that it would. Q. You had no idea of labor connected with this matter 1 Q. But as it is, with so few men and so many more women and children, yon A. No, sir; I had no idea of labor. I was looking for votes. have your doubts 7 Q. You wanted these twenty thousand "bucks" to vot.e 1 A. I do not think it would be for the material wealth of the State to have them A. I wanted !:hem to vote, of course. come in that proportion. They are consumers rather than producers. •

.4148 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 4,

Q. You would be disp'lsed, then, to advise them to stop coming in the way in many of them not employed at all, objects of daily charity, and others which they aro coming 1 A. I am Joaking at it from.an Indiana stand-point. obtaining a precarious subsistence from temporary and uncertain en­ Q. 0, yes; we are all looking at it from an In~iana stand-point; as an Indhni!W, gagements. Mr. New says that if the proportion between the males I ask you whether, if these people who are commg were to change the proportion and females was changed, so that negro men constituted the influx a little, you would advise t~em to come on 1 . . . . . of which he speaks upon our farms and into our workshops, he would A. Answering the question a.a you ask n, as a citizen of Ind1w::t, from that stand-µoint I say yes. encourage them to come. The testimony of farmers and mechanics Q. Yon may answer as yon choose; I am not cutting out the 'lIIBwers for yon. is voluminous and overwhelming on this point in the printed evidence, I simply want to get at your views. Yon are a representative man in your ~arty, andit is all one way. It is a book within itself, and I cannot readit and I want your views· so I will repeat the question, whether in the proportion m here. It condemns in every line, page, and chapter, furnished by re­ which these people are 'coming you would advise against it, and if that proportion publicans in greater numbers than by democrats, and with equal were adjusted so that there were more ~en and fewer women. and child_ren yon would advise them to come, for the material wealth and prospenty of Indiana 7 emph:\sis, the position of the cha.irman of the State central republican ~Yes, sir. committee of Indiana. Here is ttie same complaint made by Mills of not enough men in There is no dem::r.nd for the labor of the negro in Indiana, and every the movement and too many women. Here is an indorsement of intelligent person in that State knows it. There is no call for his negro emiO'ration to Indiana on the condition that the men will come assistance to develop the future of the State; no outcry for his in:fiux and the w~men remain away. It is true that Mr. New a-ssigns as a upon our farms or into our workshops, and on that issue I qm willing reason for approving such a masculine emigration that it would im­ to be judged by the people whom I represent when they next approach prove the material prosperity of the State. Doubtless, however, he the ballot-box. It is not an issue ma.de by me. It is made by the chair­ and his party colaborers are fully persuaded that the surest way to man of the republican State central committee of Indiana, and ac­ achieve that material prosperity is to overcome the democratic ma­ cepted by the gallant and faithful democracy. The people of Indiana jority in Indiana, and as the most certain means to that end the pres­ will make answer that it waa a libel on them to declare that they ence at the ballot-box of that State of the black male population of were calling upon the p!tuper Africans of the South, or on any other the South is extremely desirable. element of that race, to come to Indiana, to swarm upon her farms, Sir, I might appropriately pause hei:e to show ~om the proof that to raid her workshops, in order to develop her resources and to in­ outside of Mr. New and a. few controlling republican leaders nobody crease her material wealth. And in that answer will be found a, ver­ of any party in Indiana believes or pretends to believe that a. negro dict upon the evidence that a political conspiracy, and not the wishes emiO':ttion and settlement there, either of men, women, or children, of her citizens, ha.a inflicted upon Indiana the attempted outrage and sep~·ately or all c~mbined, would advance the m::"terial wealth, pros­ pollution which she has undergone. It will be a verdict which will perity, and well· bemg of that great and progressive Commonwealth. relieve the people of Indiana of the odium of hn.ving in any way so­ The evidence on this point before the committee came from every licited the headlong, senseless, and most unn::i.tnral moYement of the shade of party politics, and the laboring-man of the republican party blacks into their midst. and the representative man of the greenback labor pa.rty were as But, turning from Indiana to the other end of the line of exodus emphatic in their denial of Mr. New's statement as the most pro­ operations..t let us have a little closer look, in the light of the evidence, nounced democrat in the State. Mr. New says: at North U'l.rolina than we have yet taken. If Indiana did not in­ vite the negro, I !1m prepared to show by the proof that still less, if We have a large and prosperous State, demanding development, and all of us are possible, did North Carolina drive him away. I am prepared to show anxious that the Sr.ate should be developed., and everything that tends to promote its material wealth we are anxious to encourage. by an unbroken chain of testimony, in which there is neither conflict nor contradiction, that there is not one single right or privilege ever He and his fellow-managers of politics affect to believe that this known to a citizen of the United States which is not now enjoyed, "material wealth" would be promoted by a voting, not a non-voting, without the slightest molestation, let, or hinderance, by the negro of black populo,tion in the State; by a male, not a female, population of North Carolina. Instead of being denied the natural rights of man, that race; by an adult male population, entitled to wield the ballot, instead of being defrauded, oppressed, and discriminated against in not by women and children, denied as yet the elective fra,nchise. all his efforts in the great eternal race of life, liberty, and the pur­ This opinion is not shared in Indiana beyond the narrow circle of the suit of happiness, the negro of North Carolina has been nurtured and republican State central committee, the Federal office-holders, and a cared for with a kindness on the part of his white fellow-citizens few shallow folks who think that anything, even the ruin of the State, hitherto unknown in the history of the human race under similar cir­ is justifiable in order to defeat the democratic party. . . cumstances. He has not been thrust out into colder and harsher IndianR> is indeed a large and prosperous State, and is susceptible climes from his warm !1nd ancient home1 '1>nd +,he testimony before of still greater development; but she prefers to rely in the future the committee so completely exploded that calumny that not the upon the same agencies which have pressed her forward so ra.pidly slightest effort was finally made to sustain it. and so grandly in the past. In a galaxy of thirty-eight States she The Senator from North Carolina, [Mr. VANCE,] my colleague on stands in many respects the fourth, and in all respects, taken together, the committee, made Ro call upon the negroes themselves of his State the fifth State in this mighty Union. When New York, Pennsylvania, to describe before the country and before tho civilized world the Ohio, and Illinois have been named, Indiana answers next on the manner in which they were treated in that proud, historic Common­ roll-call of American States. Her railroad development is the mar­ wealth. Their response was absolutely imposing. Their stron~ and vel of modern progress, and her school system surpasses that of any mq,sterful testimony will not be lost; it will not perish. It will be other known Commonwealth of equal population. Her lands, her fom1d by the historian of the future and cited as an evidence that timber, and her minenl resources constitute her an empire of p_h.ys­ the truth may exist in the broad light of the sun and yet be obscured ical wealth. Her people, too, are a strong race, the next generation by the dark a.nd b:i,leful vapors of pa.rty hatred. I will read no evi­ immediately descended from the brave, de-rnted, and aggressive pio­ dence in regard to North Carolina, so cruelly impeached by the exodus, tlleers who a little while a~o subdued the wilderness, :md nearly all except such as was given by her colored citizens. It is difficult to .of whom now sleep in their honored graves. select, where the abundance is so grea.t, but I will submit first an · The laws of Indiana a.re liberal, just, and equal. The decisions of extractfrom the t,estimonyof Charles N. Otey, whom I have already 'her hiO'hest court are qnot.ed as authority at Westminster, and the mentioned, rut educated colored m:m, and a native of North Carolina. names~of her jurists are mentioned with respect H.t .every English­ Hes-'l.ys: spe:i.king court in the world. She has been a State the brief space of In North CaMlina the most kindly relations exist between the white and colored sixty-four years, but in that time she has swept far up to the front people. At the la.a'; celebration of the day of the emancipation proclamation the in every depa.rtment of thought and action. She h!18 ou~s.trippedher whites, all of whom had owned slaves, paid three-fourths of the expenses neces­ elder sisters, seated· on the eastern seaboard, as a. swift-sa1lmg modern sary for making it a success. They not only did this in Raleigh, but in other places -vessel on the ocean would pass an ancient craft built in the infancy where the d<\y was celebrated. '.the colored people as a mass are more intelligent than in any other State in the of n::i.vigation. In all her bright career, however, Indiana has not South. They always had more opportunities for acquiring an euucation. There .depended for anything upon the negro, either as a slave or as a freed­ arc at least five schools in the Stilte where they can get a scholastic education, and IDan, and she does not propose' to do so now. She has as much kind­ :i.lmost every town has a graded school. -ness, as much shelter and protection under t~e ~aw for the blue~ man They have what no other State in the South possesses-11.n asylum for the deaf, dumb, and blind. A democratic Legislature has !ippropriate~ money f?r the eree· .and for his household who seek a. home w1thm her borders m the tion of an insane a ylum; at present the colored rnsane are m the wh1to asylum, ordinary and natural way of moving from one place to another ru:i than which there is no finer in this country. she has for people of any other color; but when a rush is made to con­ The free schools are open for all, 'Uld coiored teachers are al ways employed in preference to w bites. I vert her into a mere miserable colony for colored voters for political There are nuwbers of colored lawyers who have made a name at the bar; doctors ends under the pretense of aiding the development of her material who have successful µractice; farmers who own their farms and ca.rry their own wealth, she will resent and resist the base defilement and inflict pun­ cotton to market. Why, RaleiP'h, a oity of alJ?u~ thirteen thousq,ud inhabitants, ishment on all who have conspired against her honor and good fame. half whose population is colored, h'!.S grown within th past five years to such extent that I could scarcely recognize my nati".e city.. There are. more color~d .~ l\Ir. :New, in speaking of the coming of the male negro into Indiana, people who own their own houses than there are m the mty of Washington. Thell' says: beautiful cottages are to be seen everywhere. . . . I think that an inftux of labor upon our farms and into our workshops would As I beheld this sight I saicl to myself, why does not the enngration begm at cert:Mnly tend to tfie material prosperity of the State. Washington ~ In one word I say that the cause. of the exodus from .N:orth C~lina can be found Every witness examined, except republican office-holders and pol­ in the purses of the men who furnished Perry and Williams with the meru;is. iticians, testified that such an influx would be the abomination of In my opinion, the time will come when those who have encouraged this move­ the people of the State ; that the supply of laborers was greater far ment will repent in sackcloth and ashes. In my humble jud!rnlent, in December, 1880, many colored mell who are now than the demand, and had been for many years, especially since 1873; feasting on the lamb in Indiana will be begging for money to pay their way back and that the negroes already imported there had fallen on hard lines, to old North Carolina. 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4149

Allother colored man of a different type, W.W. Arrington, of Nash Q. What could an industrious colored man down there with a mule, &c., make in a.year'! County, North Carolina, was examined by the Senator from that State. A. I do not know as I could answer that question definitely. I wiU say this, The impression made by him on the committee will not soon be for­ that they make as much there as their white neighbors do, and I have oeen more gotteµ. A splendid specimen of his race, physically as well as in other surprised to notice this fall where white men who own land have been compelled respects, he quietly spoke as follows: to sell e•ery lock of cotton to pay their debts, when I knew seve¥U instances where colored men have taken their cotton to market and brought it back home before Question. Can you give us a statement of the condition of the colored people they would sell it. in your section 1 Q. They were not compelled to sell their cotton 7 Answer. In the northern part of the county, where I live, they are in a good con­ A. No, sir; they were not compelled to sell it. dition and many own land.. It is ra.tber thickly settled, and mostly with colored Q. And thoy refused to sell it at the prices offered'! peopl~. Only once in a while you will come a<:ross a white man; but the colored .A.. Yes, sir; because they did not need the money. people own the country through there. Q. Will you explain what you know of the renting system, and whether there is Q. How much do they own 1 any disadvantage to the colored people in renting larid over the same disadvant­ A. There are four or :five thousand acres right in my own county owned by them. ages oxperienced by the whites'! Q. How much is owned by them in Nash County W A. There can be no disadvantages to the colored people tha.t will not apply to · A. I reckon twenty thousand acres; all of that. the whites of the same class. Q. How is it distributed 'I How much was to a man f A. I think the smallest farm I know is seventy acres, and from that up to a The spectacle of a State agricultural fair held under the auspices thousand. of the colored people and addressed from the same stand by Mr. Q. Does any colored man there own a. thousand acres 1 O'Hara and Governor Jarvis, the democratic governor of the State, A. Yes, sir; one. Q. Who is it1 is not quite in harmony with the theory that the Ku Klux rages in A. That is myself. North Carolina, and that the black man is hiding in her swamps or Q. Were you formerly a slave 'I fleeing from her borders for safety. A. Yes, sir. I belonged to A.H. Arrington. Mr. O'Hara was the republican candidate for Congress in his dis­ Q. Baldi~ A. Yes, sir; and a perfect gentleman, if there ever waa one. trict at the la. Q. What chances have you to teach and learn your children W A. We have good chances now. I am one of the school trustees in my township. and when we :fight them they count us out. Now, in my own county the repub­ And we have a treasurer, and the money is paid out by the township. licans had the appointment of commissioners, and because I opposed a certain white Q. How long do your schools run 7 man who ran for sheriff his friends made a combination and counted me out. That A. About four months. was the rea.son why Mr. Kitchen went on his bond, and the result was to give us a Q. Is there a good attendance of the children i democratic sheriff on the republican ticket and to count me out in consequence of A. Yes, sir; I believe ours has an attendance of seventy-nine. this combination. Q. That is your township 7 Behold.here the love of the white republican of the S'luth for his A. Yes, sir; the one I am trustee for. black brother! This is an interesting theme for reflection. What a. Will any man fit to be out of an insane asylum or a. penitentiary generous division of political rights the white republican makes with contend that the State in which this witness resides, and from which his colored cola.borer 1 He concedes to the negro the right to vote, he was summoned here to testify, is an unjust and cruel one in its and takes for his own share the right to hold the offices. The negro policy toward the coloredrace7 A -system of laws by virtue of which has at last opened wide his eyes to the fact that this arrangement is a man just emerged from penniless bondage can speedily become one admirable for one side but not so good for the other; that while the of the large land-owners of the State, and one of the trust.ees of her white republican has political turkey the African is compelled to put public schools, cannot be aasailed as a system of oppression to him up with political buzzard, and he is disposed to resent the injustice. or to hls people. · Question. You mean that they want to keep all the offices 'I Another colored witness, of great intelligence and fairness, was Answer. Yes, sir- James E. O'Hara, of Halifax County, North Carolina. The oppor­ Exclaims Mr. O'Hara- tunities of his race may be judged from the following question and and when we say to them that they must divi<'fe, they say, "Holt! on;" and when answer: we :fight them they count us out. , Question. State what ~ositions you have held in North Carolina. Of course they do. The art of counting out by the leaders of the Answer. I have been five years chairman of the board of county commissioners republican party has been brought to perfection; it has become one of Halifax County, engrossing clerk of the constitutional convention in 1868, and of the branches of skilled la.bor; and to keep themselves in constdnt member of the constitutional convention in 1875, and I was in the last election nom­ inated as elector on the presidential ticket, and nominated for Congress from the practice they count out a colored candidate for office whenever he is second district. in their way or will not do their unclean work. Well may l\Ir. O'Hara. In regard to the general condition of his people and their owner­ say: That the colored republicans of the South have more to fear from the white re­ ship of land in North Carolina, Mr. O'Hara testified as follows: publicans than from the democrats. Question. Well, now, considering the black people as a general rnie as laborers Speaking of the edncationaJ and benevolent institutions for the without land, what is their condition as a cla-ss, and what proportion of freedom do they enjoy with the white laborers 7 colored people of North Carolina, Mr. O'Hara paid the following tribute Answer. They are in equally as good a condition. If the committee will allow me, to the wisdom and high Christian conduct of that State : I will show how that thing is. A great deal of this talk about the negro is errone­ Question. Has not your State appropriated money for the establishment of a ous, because his condition is largely a. local matter. Not Ion~ ago wo had a State normal school for the education of' teachers i fair in North Carolina held by the colored people, and in speaKing I followed Gov­ Answer. Wehadanormalschoolatonetime. Itwasatfirstonlytemporary, bntI ernor Jarvis. who made the opening address, and I stated in that address that the think our Legislature has made it permanent. As we advance and get a little more prosperity of the colored people could not be very well seen at that fair, while it money we will have more schools of all kinds. was one of the most creditable that had ever been held, and was acknowledged to Q. Ilas not the State also provided asylums for the unfortunate of your race i be such by the press of the country. I mentioned one fact in my own county, A. Yes, sir; the same facilities are offered the black and white alike in that re­ where the colored people have acquired thirteen tliousand a-0res of land. That state­ spect. Wo have a deaf and dumb school for the colored people, under the same ment was doubted. One of our papers, the Roanoke News, doubted this statement. rules and government as that for white people ; they aro taught, fed, and clothed of mine, and in order to be more certain I went to tho records of the county and under the same system as the whites. In fact, it is not very long ago since I went referred back a year. I took the records for 1878 instead of 1879, and the record through both institutions-the one on one aide of our city, the other on the other• . showed th.at the colored people of that county had 16,601 acres in fee-simple title, They havo the same kind of provisions, meats, vegetables, and fruits ; the same and in proportion that is equally true for the counties of Warren, Nash, and Lenoir. bedding and furniture, carpets, pianos, &e., all the same in both institutions, with· Q. You m.ean_they have lands in the sam~ proportion in each county 1 out any discrimination at all. A. Yes, sir; m each county. I suppose it would be no exaggeration to say that Q. \Vhat provision has been made for t-he insane 7 in my county, which is the next largest negro county in the State-Eduecombe is A. Owing to the crowded condition of our present insane asylum, it has been the largest-the colored people own there in Yee-simple title twenty thoifsand acres found necessary to build two others; one for the whites at Morgantown, and one. of land. at Greensborough, in what is called the" neirro belt," exclusively for colored peo-~ * pie-an institnt10n that will compare favorably with instit~ti~ns of the sam~ kind\ Q. What is the condition of the land in your county'! in any part of that country; as good as the one they are building for the whites at Ia!ia~~rJ~~-t~it°:!~ good as any other in the Stat.a. It is what we call swamp Morgantown. . Q. It is not aa large~ 4150 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 4,

A. No, it is nut as large; it is not necessary that it should be as large, because Q. Did any of them advise you to stay 7 our percentage of insane is not as large as it is among whites ; and the negro pop­ A. Yes, sir; they said they did not blame you immigrants for wanting to go ulation is only one.third that of the whites. home, but said, laou try and stay until after the presidential elec:J on, and then we The samo advantages in the public schools for colored people a.a for ~~!~!::.best or you to go home ; and I said all right, and I went on my way and white; a normal school for the education of their teachers; a sep­ 'arate school for the education of their deaf and dumb; and a separate How sweet and precious was the love for the negro of tho who asylum for their insane, furnished, provisioned, and conducted the advised Green Ruffin and "you immigrants" to "try and stay. until same as those for the white race, proclaim in trumpet tones the honor, after the presidential election," and then to go home ! He describes the dignity, and the good faith of the old North State, and overwhelm his experience at Indianapolis : her slanderers with confusion. Question. Did you find much demand there for work 1 Answer. There was mighty few people th'3re were looking for workmen. W:Mey Lowrey, a coJored man, living in Kinston, Lenoir County, Q. Were there a few or many who were looking for work 1 . North Carolina, the owner of real estate yielding him a rent of be­ A. There were a great many of them looking for work, for there are plenty of ·tween four and five hundred dollars a year, a republican in politics, people there as bad off as we were. as were all the colored men called before the committee from that Q. How much wages were you to get out there~ A. Fifteen dollars a month on a farm, and house to live in, firewood furnished, State, testified that he had for eight years been county commissioner and a cow and calf to milk extra for each family. of Lenoir County; t.hat the duties of his office embraced the selec­ Q. Did you find any truth in such statements ~ tion of jurors for the courts, the. construction and repair of roads and A. None at all, sir. bridges, the support of the poor-house, and the valuation of property Then with his face towards his old kindly home, and this far on for the assessment of taxes. He declared that no discrimination the way, he makes a most instructive and pathetic revelation : whatever existed against the colored people in the selection of jurors, Question. Are you on your way back to North Carolina.1 that they got their fair proportion in the jury box, and were treated Answer. Yes, sir. as fairly as white people in the courts. In regard to the schools and Q. Do you expect to stay there 7 A. I 'm aiming to get back home and die there. the state of feeling between the two races he made the following Q. You are going to stay when you get there 1 statement: A. I am going to stay right at home and advise all the rest to stay. Question. I want to ask you something about the education of the colored peo- Q. What kind of advice are you going to gi>e them 7 ~:-;~bout their children. What chances have they in your county to educafo A. I am going to t~ll them, "You have got a home, and you stay there;•• for it's an abomination to go where you have got none. Answer. I think we have good schools going on, and had them all the time. Q. You speak in the church at home sometimes, don't you f Q. As good as the whites ~ A. Yes, sir; sometimes in the prayer-meetings and round about. A. I reckon they are. Q. Do you expect to speak to them about this thing 1 Q. And a-s many of them 1 A. Yes, sir; if I live I expect to tell them about these things. . A. We have a great deal more in our schools. Q. You think it is a great outrage on your race 7 Q. You have more schools than the whites 7 A. Yes, sir; it is a. re!!ular a bommation. A. Not more schools, but more children in them. We have a good school that Q. You belonged tofu. Ruffin, who was once in Congress, did you notf runs five or six months in the year. A. Yes, sir. Q. That is a free school ~ Q. How have you been treated since the war down there f A. Yes, sir. A. As good as I want to be. Nobody bas ever bothered me, and when I worked Q. What are the chances for the higher education of your children ¥ Are there for them they paid me. nny college~ for colored people in reach of your town 'I Q. D!d you vote down there f A. None m our county. A. Yes, sir; at every election. I have never missed any one that I know of. Q. I mean in your end of the State. Are there any schools for the education of Q. What ticket did you vote ¥ teachers 'I A. The republican tieket. A. Yes, sir. Q. Did anybody ever keep you from voting it i Q. And a very fine school at Greensborough, where the colored people are edu­ A. No, sir. cated in the higher branches free 'I Q. Did you go to court during court week 7 A. Yes, sir. A. Yes, sir: I go to see how court goes on and the cases there. b~~~hat is the state of feeling in that section between the whites and the Q. Did you live there on the old pla.Iltation ~ A. Yes, sir; I have a piece of ground there yet. A. I think it is very friendly. Q. Do you rent it f Q. You have no disturbances on public days, such as election days 'I A. Yes, sir; I rent from a landholder. A. No, sir; I believe everybody votes to suit himself. Q. What sort of terms do you get 1 Q. What are yonr politics ~ A. Well, sir, if you tend the lands and they furnish the teams and all the uten- A. I am a republican. sils and seed, and 1 do the labor and board myself, I get a half. Q. Do you vote that ticket every time 1 Q. Do you make a living for yourself and family in tilat way ~ · A. Yes, sir. . A. Yes, sir. Q. When you heard of those big wages yon thought you could do better out there Sir, I might stand here days instead of hours, piling one statement than at homo7 on top of another, made by colored witnesses: all of the same pur­ A. Yes, sir; it's a man's duty t-0 do better if he can, but if you don't like it, why port, and all utterly disproving every charge of unfair or unjust treat­ then don't take up with it. ment on the part of the whites toward the blacks of Korth Carolina. Q. You don't like it, and you are going back 1 John 0. Kelley, a slave at the close of the war, now the proprietor A. Yes, sir. of all the livery business and omnibus lines in Raleigh; Napoleon coidy.ow many of your people out there would go back from Indiana if they Higgins, a farmer with four hundred and eighty-five acres of good A. I know of two families, and I think they have somethinu of the rise of eight land for cotton, which he has worked and paid for since the war; or ten children, who asked me to do something to get them baOk, and I said I would • Lewis H. Fisher, formerly a slave, now a merchant at Kinston, North domylilest. Q. Are you going to try to get them back W .Carolina, and the owner of farming lands and town lots besides his A. Yes, sir. merchandise; Ellis Dickson, a mechanic from Greene County, a mill­ Q. How did you get back 7 wright by trade, employing from ten to eighteen workmen, both black A. I bad worked and got 7 that I sa.ved; and the man that I was with wrote for money, and they sent him $35, and he lent me seven, and, with the seven I had it and white under him; Hilliard Ellis, a farmer with upward of two brought me here; and when I got here I had nothing to eat, but I was this nigh hundred acres of productive land in Wilson county; all these, and home. ID!j.IlY others of the colored race, and republicans in politics, bear the "And when I got here I had nothing to eat, but I was this nigh flame unqualified testimony to the equality of the two races before home." What commentary on the calumnies in circulation to the the law, and to their equal protection in all the callings and pursuits a -Of life. In the face of proof like this who will care for the driveling, effec~ that ~be old ma:n and his race have no.security, pea-ce, or com­ fort ID their homes ID the South l Struggling back, reaching here mercenary talk of Perry, Williams, and other hired agents, flitting without money to go farther, and without food, he derived a strong to and fro between Washington and Indianapolis with the money of compensation in the thought that he " was this nigh home." Do you the republican leaders of Indiana in their pockets Y Even Perry him­ think, Mr. President, that such a home thus sought was environed self recanted before the committee and admitted that the negro emi­ by midnight terrors, daily alarms, and the fierce animosities and race gration to Indiana was a fraud, induced by svstematic falsehood, and conflicts retailed by republican politicians to the northern mind? To declared, speaking as a negro : · suppose so would be to burlesque human nature and outrage com­ I wrote to the old gentleman, Bergen, that if I owned a lot in Indiana. and ~me in hell, I would rent out the one in Indiana and live in hell before I would live mon sense. there. Sir, the committee was charged by the resolution of the Senate to P.erry, how~ver, was not .the only North. Carolina negro who ex­ investigate the ca!lses which led to the emigration of negroes from perienced a v10lent conversion on the subJect of a new Canaan in the Southern to the Northern States, and more especially from the Indiana for the colored race. We saw Mingo Simmons hobbling back State of North Carolina to the State of Indiana. I have thus far on frozen feet from the corn-fields of prominent republicans in Put­ discussed the proof relating to the movement between t.be two Stat.es n'.l'm County, Indiana,. without a cent in his pocket, seeking again named. The absence of every other motive than a political one for his comfortable home m Greene County, North Carolina. We heard the transportation of negroes from North Carolina .to In

At this point, however, another branch of the investigation claims and Y.-anted to make u_p $12.80, I believe ; that was what he spoke of, and if w& Qlome attention. Leaving Indiana and North Carolina. to stand as didn't have it we could not get the benefit of the land; so about six of UB made up over $12 and sent it to him ; we put it in the post-office on Monday morning and sent placed by the evidence on this great subject, the committee, at the it on. .And when we got there-well, I axed him about the Ianii, and he could not request of its able and courteous minority, called witnesses from give any account of tlie land he had bought at all. Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Kansas. The evidence Q. That was the delegate you sent up there, was it Y A. Y~, sir. from these States was far more conflicting, touching the causes of Q. What is his name 'l negro emigration, than that which related to North Carolina. The A. H enry Tanner. committee found here and there the traces and the memories of Q. Well, goon and tell us what you did when you got there. former troubles, growing out of the suddenly reversed relations of A. They had no houses for us. They had one house there, and every one of us had to get in that one house. We was all lyin' round there in a jam, and wa.s in the t wo races by the results of the war and the radical reconstruc­ an awful fix there; my mother-in-law was sick. tion legislation which followed. The testimony taken in former in­ Q. Did you have your mother-in-law with you besides your wife and two chil· vestigations was to some extent overhauled and reproduced by black dren ~ and white political agitators who appeared as witnesses. It was ad­ A. Yes; and she was old and sick and I got dishearted. .And I went round there and tried to r ent houses around town, and every time I wa.s goin' to rent a holl86 mitted on all hands, however, that no disturbances, riots, or violence the white people wanted to sell; they didn't want to rent. Well, we didn't know -0f political origin now existed in the Southwest or had existed for a what to do; we was lyin' there all in a huddle and my mother-in-law she died. number of years in that section of the country. Q. Your mother.in-law died there 9 It appears conclusively from the evidence that whatever injustice A. Yes r and after she died I jus' got dishearted and said I was going back to Louisiana. or brutality has been intlicted on the colored man in the past, arising Q. She had never been in such a climat.e before and it wa.s colder than where aha from the ambitious and plundering machinations of the northern hacl livecl 1 carpet-bagger on the one hand and the resentful spirit of lawless A. 0 , yes, and me too. people in the South on the other, such a condition of thin.gs has Q. It was colder to you, too 1 A. Yes; I couldn't keep warm; and I got talkin' to 'em- thewhit.e men there-­ totally disappeared and can no longer be found anywhere. In Lou­ and I axed 'em how much money could a man make here in a year. Some of 'em isiana, it is true, an attempt was made to show that a state of inse­ told me.he 00~4 make a. hundred and fifty dollars; and they axed me how much ery man I talked to. "Then I'm ~wine back to Louisiana," I said; been met by the testimony of the most substantial men of both colors and of both political parties in that State. From the parishes of ~~m~l~a~~~Y,:(~~~a:a~~~rLi~i~~~!?rk;~:fd· ~afe ~~ll~ , ~~1 ·:.n~: oldh::fi1: log for six months. I say, '' Wba.t for 1" They say, '' 0, the fellers there will kill Caddo, Bossier, and Natchitoches, the parishes principally assailed, you." Then I say, "I'm gwine back." "No, you had better stay here and buy -came sober, industrious men, without regard to their color or their land here," they told me, and I said, " ~o, I can't stay here, I don't likothis coun­ politics, and rebutted every calumny sought to be fastened upon their try; I don't like it at all; I'm gwine back where I can raise cotton, in the cotton localities. Of the negroes themselves, several were examined who country where I was raised, and am used to, and I always had a good deal ; I'm had shared in the Kansas delusion and who had returned again to gwine back." their old homes. As the experience of one was substantially the ex­ This man lost his money and property by his trip to Kansas, but perience of the others, I will submit the testimony of Henderson feels that be can makA it all up again on the plantation at home. At Alexander, a thrifty and respectable colored man, living in the parish another point in his testimony he says: of Bossier: Question. How did the other colored people, so far as you talked with them, like the country up there ~ Question. Now, if you thought you would better your condition by going to Answer. I tell you the truth; them colored people in talkin' t-0 me (some of 'em) Kansas tell us why and all about it. sajd they wanted to get back, but they had nothing to get back with, they didn't have .Answer. Well, I always heard talk of Kansas as being a good place to go to, and no means to get back. I said to me and myself. "Now, I have got a little money • T always 'eluded I woulii go there, I heard so much talk of it; they said it was a and I had better get back when I can get back;" and that's what I told 'em. One _good vlace, a good country, and I 'eluded to go there, toJ. old gentleman wanted me then-he axed me how I wa.s going to get back to Lou· Q. Yes; wlia.t family ha.Ye yon 1 isiana. "Well," I said, "I am going to take a train and go back so as to get back A. Wife and children. in time to make part of a crop, and make up my money Thad spent." I 'clmledI Q. How many children 7 would go back in my wagon tirst., me and another man, Wash ·walker; I knowed A. Two. I couldn't get back in time to make a crop, but I knowed I would get back to make Q. How much stuff had yon when yon went to Kansas 7 four bales of cott<>n, and that would be more'n I could mako in Kansas, because A. I had a good lot of sheep-twenty head of sheep, and about twenty head of cott-0n sells for ten cents, and that will be $200 . ..cattle and two mules and a wagon. Q. Had you any money 7 He further testifies to the full enjoyment of all his political iights A. Yes, sir. in Louisiana, his rights of property, personal security, educational Q. How much money had you 1 and church privileges. Others like him tell the same story, and it is A. About$750. Q. About 750 in cash 1 impossible to believe that the colored people of Louisiana are treated A. Yes, sir; just about that. by their white fellow-citizens with cruelty and outrage when such Q. Who gave you these glowing accounts about Kansas, a!! to its being such a facts are related by the laboring colored men themselves. To show _good country 1 A. Well, papers came from Kansas; then we 'eluded we would make up some still further that neither the laws, nor the social customs, nor the money and send a man there-a delegate they called him- and we sent a man political prejudices of the white people of that State operate inju­ there. and he writ back it was a fine country. riously to the advancement of the negro, I will read the following Q. Yes. extract from the testimony of Gilbert Myers, a colored planter of A . .And for all to come on; it was a good country to live in, a good, law-abiding -country, and all. Caddo Parish : Q. Yes. Question. Mr. Myers, where do you live7 A . .And me and a good lot of us then held a meeting to make up some money to .An.swer. In the Stat.e of Louisiana. support that man. .And he kept on writing letters, and they was read to us-I am Q. Whereabouts in Louisiana¥ not a reading man-about the country that it was so fine, and so I went on, and it A . Caddo Parish. didn't suit me nohow. Q. On what plantation ~ Q. Tell me first how you went. Did you go by boat! A. A place of my own. A . No; on the steam-cars. Q. You live upon a place that you own 7 Q. Where did yon take the cars 1 A. Yes, sir. A. I took the cars at Shreveport, me and my family. Q. How long have you lived there7 Q. Where did you strike Kansas, at Parsons 7 A. I have been living on the place, sir, ten years last Christmas; but I have A. We struck Texarkana, Cherry Valley, Independence, and Montgomery only owned it-it has been six years since I bought that place. .County, Kansas. Q . ..Are you a native of J,ouisiana 'I Q. How many were in the party that went with you 1 A. No; sir; I was bred and born and raised in Georgia. A . Little and big, children and all, about eighty head. Q. How long has it been since you came to Louisiana~ Q • .And you landed there with 750 ; or how much had you when you got there 7 A. I came to Louisiana the first year of tho war. A. Not that much after I got there. Q . .And on the place where you ba.ve lived ten years 7 Q. How much had you when you got there~ A. Yes, sir; I have lived ten years on that place. A. I bad $650 and a little over. Q. How far is it from Shreveport~ Q. Did you take your team with yon 9 A . We call it twenty.one miles. A. Yes, sir; I took my team with me. Q. How much real estate have yon, Mr. Myers 1 Q. .And yon landed with $650 in your pocket and a pair of mules and a wagon 9 A. I ba.ve between five and six.hundred acres of land, six head of mules, one lit­ A . I had a little more money than that when I got there; I had that much, I tle old chunk of a pony, about seventy-fi\e head of cattle, and I reckon seventy­ Jrnow. fivo to eighty head of hogs; somewheres close to that. Q. When. did you reach there 1 Q. When rud yon buy five or six hundred acres of land in Caddo Parish~ A. About Christmas or a littlo afterward. A. I bought by my first purchase fiye year3 ago two hundred; and eighty acres; Q. This last Christmas 9 that was my first purchase. Last June I boaghtonehundredandsixtyacresmore. A. Yea. Last January pa.st I bought one hundred and twelve acres more. Q. What did yon do when yon got there¥ Q. How much does that land stand you per acre 7 A . Well, I got there, and the man we sent there, he writbefore we left Louisiana, A. For the first purchase of two hundred and eighty acres I paid $10 an a-0re;. 4152 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN.ATE. JUNE 4, for the second purchase I paid $5 an acre ; and the la.st purchase of one hundred mony of an honest, upright negro, one who is entitled to speak of the and twelve acres I paid $3 an acre for it, sir. condition and the treatment of himself and his race. Q. What kind of land is it; cotton land 9 A. Yes, sir, cotton land; the hill land and a little on the creek bottom, &c. Louis Stubblefield (colored) sworn and examined. Q. You cultivate cotton 9 By the CHA.IIWAX: A. Yes. Question. Where do you live, Mr. Stubblefield t Q. And hire help 9 Answer. In Bolivar County, Mississippi. A. No, sir, I don't hire no help; I work my own children. Q. How long have you lived there 'I Q. What help have you in that way~ . A. I have live there for fourteen years, sir. A. I have got a good many children; Ihavetwosonslivingwithme, both grown, Q. Where were you born 9 and their families, and the balance of them; the younger part of them are females. A. In Alabama., sir; in Wilcox Count:v, .A.fabama. Q. Were you a free man before the war 9 Q. What do you follow for a. living, Mr. Stubblefield t A. No sir; I never wa-s free till the. 'mancipation. A. Farming, sir, is my occupation. Q. Did you have anything in the way of property when the war closed 7 Q. Do you hold any position or office in your county 'I A. No, sir; I didn't have two bits to save my life. A. Yes, sir; I have a. position. Q. And you have accumulated enough to get five or six hundred acres of land Q. What is it Y and horses, and nearly one hundred head of cattle, &c. 9 A. I am a. member of the board of supervisors in my county. A. Yes, sir. Q. How long have you hel.d that position 1 Q. Could any other sober, industrious, intelligent colored man do the same if he A. For the last eight years, and turned into nine. were to try as hard as yon have7 Q. State, Mr. Stubl>lefield, whether you have been able to acquire some property A. Yes. There is a good many in my neighborhood right around me; there is since the war. a colored settlement around me doing very well. They have bought land and paid A. Ye-s, sir; I have been able to gather in some little property. for it. Q . .A.bout how much 'I Q. How many of your neighbors have bought laud and paid for it9 A. I am to-day in possession of one hundred and sixty aores of very good land, A. Right in my own neighborhood some dozen of us right around within five or and also nine head of horses and mules, 'twixt thirty-five and forty head of cattle, six miles square have. betwee~ fifty and sixty head of hogs-is about the property that I own myself and Sir, a country in which a man who was a destitute slave fifteen or my family. Q. Did you own anything at the close of the war 'I sixteen years ago, and who now owns a well-stocked plantation of be­ A. No, sir; nothing whatever. tween :five and six hundred acres, cannot be malignant or unfriendly Q. Wero you a. free man before the war 'I in its policy of government toward him and his race. A. No sir; I was a. sla"\'"e before the war. I might, if time permitted, dwell on the testimony of Abner Hall, Q. And this property you have acquired since you got your freedom, and after- the war closed 'I R. L. Faulkner, and other excellent colored men, who have long been A. Yes, sir; I have gained it all since 1870. school directors in their various parishes, and who state in explicit Q. Where did you live in Mississippi before you went to Bolivar County I terms that there is no denial whatever to the children of colored folks A. I lived in Yazoo County. of any of the rights or advantages which the children of white folks Q. And you were born in Alabama 9 A. Yes, sir; I was born in Alabama, but I just consider that I was raised in­ enjoy in the schools. Yazoo County Mississippi; for I left Alabama when I wa.s only five years old, I might also dwell at length on the testimony of many of the fore­ and I am now m1 my fifty.third year. With the exception of the five years in Ala.. most and most intelligent men of the white race, of both political par­ bama I have been in Mississippi, a.nd for fourteen years I have been in Bolivar­ ties from Louisiana, showing that neither in the laws themselves nor County. I came there right after the close of the war. Q. In carrying on your farming, do you hire any help 7 in the mode of their execution is there any discrimination against the A. Yes, sir; I have hired help. colored people of that State. I must, however, content myself with Q. How much do laborers' wages a.mount to down there-what do you pay 'I earnestly commending their published evidence to a candid, reading A. The general waues range from 12 to $15 a month and boa.rd in addition. Q. Is there any diftfculty in laboring people down there getting employment 9 public. A. No, sir. When the State of Mississippi was reached it was supposed by many Q. It's the other way, isn't it 'l that a condition of affairs between the two races would be revealed A. Yes, air; the great trouble is they can get more employment than you can the slightest word of which would harrow up the souls of northern em_ploy them. people and furnish material for an entire political campaign. Some Q. You mean there is greater demand for labor than supply of it 9 strange developments did indeed take place before the committee, A. Yes, sir. * * * * * * not in the quality or the quantity of the evidence, for everything Q. :Mr. Stubblefield, is there any political trouble down there in Bolivar County, was as usual the flimsiest hearsay, nor in its novelty, for it was all Mississippi, now 'l A. Not with us; I am happy to say that we got along as weH as could be ex- a tale that had been told a thousand times before, but in the charac­ pected. ter of the witnesses and in their attitude toward the people and tbe Q. What ticket do you vote 'I interests of that State. The principal and leading witness in mak­ A. I vote the republican ticket, sir. ing an assault on Mississippi was a very remarkable character by the Q. You are not molested in voting it 'I A. Not at all, sir; I advocate my rights, and speak my political opinions us boldly name of R. B. Avery, a white man, now living at Bay Saint Louis. as anybody. His testimony will be found commencing on page 255 of part 2 of the Q. And you have held office for seven or eight years 'I published evidence. It appears that he went to Mississippi in 1865, A. Yes; going on nine years-my fifth term on the board of supervisors; I have either from Illinois or Indiana, a most violent and active democrat. served eight years, and turned into nine since .Tanuary laat. Q. Why don't others do as well as you do if there is plenty of employment for He declares that he made red-hot democratic speeches as soon as he all who will work 'I landed in Mississippi; that he was bitterly opposed to the whole plan A. Well, others, I suppose. probably ha.ve not taken the same stand I havo taken. of reconstruction; that he denounced negro suffrage, and still de­ I have always tliought that I must look to myself and work myself up, and so I nounces it, except as limited by education; that he ran for the Sfate have never waited a moment for any person to pick me up and carry me and make· something outen me; I have always thought it was my duty to make something of senate on these principles in 1868; that for the same reasons he op­ myself and respect myself, and I thought 1: would then be respected by respecta.ble­ posed with all his strength the adoption of the new constitution of peraons. Mississippi in 18fi9; that he became very angry with his party because Q. Are there other people of your race around yon who have got along a.a well as in 1869 it took up Judge Louis Dent, the brother-in-law of General youhave'I A. Yes, sir. Grant, as its candidate for governor; that he made a canvass in that Q. Any considerable number 'I campaign and voted for Dent, but "honestly went into it to defeat A. Yes, sir. There is a. section there in my immediate neig_hborhood, about;. the Dent ticket;" that while pretending to support Dent he put the four miles throughout, tha.twas taken up on a. little stream there .Known as Bayou "knife nnder his :fifth rib every time;" that he took this course be­ Fabayos, where the colored people own all the land with the exception of two lots of seventy-five acres in one and a hundred in another, and I am agent of these two cause he conceived that the democratic platform was no better on lots to sell. the subject of reconstruction and negro suffrage than that of the re­ * publican party, and further, that he was opposed to a northern car­ Q. :Mr. Stubblefield, how is it abont opportunities for schooling your children. in your country 'I · pet-bagger fo! office, although one ?Unself; that he voted for Greeley A. Well, sir, our people in .Bolivar has the same chance that the whites does in 1872, remamed a democrat until 1873, then helped to elect Ames for schoolin~ their children; there is no exception made in the schools at all. governor, moved from Eastport to Bay Saint Louis in 1874, com­ Q. The scnools are kept up by the taxation of tho people, are they 'I menced the publication of a republican newspaper, and in April, 1877, A. Yes, sir. Q. Where the colored ma.n has property he pays the school taxes the same as. was appointed to the lucrative position of agent of the southern the white man does 'I claims commission under the last one of Grant's administrations. A. Yes, sir; itis all equal as to that. Sir, if this man does not possess a record sufficient to qualify him Q. And all share alike in the privileges of the schools 'l as one of the stereotyped witnesses on the subject of southern out­ A. Yes, sir; that portion of the business has been paasing through my hands rages, I am at a loss to know what further degree he could possibly for the last eight yea.rs; I am identified with that sort of work. take. · Eight years a Bourbon democrat, as he styles himself, dis­ Here we have the statement of a colored man from the very heart gusted with his party for being too conservative; then seven years a of that portion of Mississippi where the greatest wrongs to his race persecuting republican, winding up as an agent to travel through the are alleged to exist. He was raised in the county of Yazoo, and now South in the examination of war claims, owned, as be states, by re­ lives in the county of Bolivar, composing part of the district repre­ publicans, and to be presented to a republican board of southern sented by General CHALMERS in the other branch of Congress. Start­ claims commissioners, composed of Messrs. Aldis, Ferris, and Howell ; ing but a few years ago, an emancipated slave, with nothing to aid with such rare qualifications as these how reliable must be his recital him except his own industry and a. fair chance under the laws, ho of facts, and how candid and unprejudiced his opinions on the situa­ appeared before the committee a self-possessed, intelligent, and com­ tion of affairs in the South! And yet on his testimony, and the testi­ paratively wealthy man. Voting the republican ticket without the mony of others no more entitled to consideration, it is sought to slightest molestation, he has also held one of the most important blacken the reputation of communities ancl States. Allow me, in refu­ offices in his county during the last eight or nine years. The school tation of the calumnies heaped upon Mississippi, to submit the testi- laws, and in fact the whole system of laws, have been equal and just ~ i880. CONGRESSIONAL .RECORD-SENATE. 4153 to him and to his people. Nor is his condition an exceptional one; crowd of them out there, sitting on some old trucks and standing around there. I. heard one of these, who was evidently a woman, saying, "I am not going to tell he describes whole communities of colored people as prosperous a.a this story any longer; it is all wrong, and it does not do a hit of good; there is no­ himself. body cares for us here; here we are, sitting on these old trucks, and may stay here Sir, one such witness as Lewis Stubblefield is a vindication of the till we starve to death, and nobody would care; yon know very well ~hat nobody policy of Mississippi toward the colored people. His testimony con­ ill-treated us down there, and I am not going to tell this story any longer." Q. Who was she talking to7 sists not merely in his words, but also in himself. He is a great fact A. Her husband, I judged; from the style of her conversation. which could not have existed in hit:i prosperous condition and honor­ Q. What did he say 9 able station but for the protection of equal and just laws. The fact A. Nothing. I think they started back home the next day. that such a man, situated as he is, comes here from that region of Q. Have a considerable number gone back home~ A. Yes, sir; a great many. They are applying at the railroad offices there every· Mississippi is in itself a proclamation to the world that the people of day to :find out how much it will cost. his race have not been denied their equal right with the white race to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Again, Mr. Stanton, in speaking of the delusion of the negroes in The condition of the two races in Mississippi in their kindly rela­ their rush for Kansas, described the following instrument of fraud,. tions with each other at this time was also most clearly shown in the one of. thousands similar in kind which I have no doubt were scat­ comprehensive testimony of Colonel Yerger, the superintendent of tered among the more ignorant classes of the colored race in the education for Bolivar County. It is to be found on page 506 of part South: 3 of the printed evidence, and will amply repay a careful reading. Question. Do you know anything about any pictures, chromos, or anything of There was yet another circumstance which, however slight in itself, that sort being sent down South by .a.nybody 9 Answer. Yes, sir; I saw one pioture, I think, last July or August, possibly Sep­ spoke volumes in refutation of the charges of cruelty and oppression tember; I would not say exactly what month it was. I saw a chromo perhaps the inflicted by the w bites upon the blacks in that or any other part of size of that atlas, perhaps not as wide; it had a nice little cottage-hom1e, a one·story Mississippi. There came before the committee one Philip Brookings, house, with a porch and awning in front, situated on one of our green mounds in­ a black man who had made a pilgrimage to Kansas and was on his Kansa.s; in front of the house stood a mule, harnessed to a cart; an old gentleman and lady, colored, were standing on· the porch, aud little children were playing way home. His testimony is on page 107, part 3, of the evidence: about in the shadow of four or five green trees. And the man that showed me that Question. Mr. Brookings, tell us where you live. picture said that that was what got him here-forty a-0res, and a mule and cart, and. Answer. I live in the State of Mississippi, in Yazoo City, Ya.zoo Coa.nty. the like of that. Q. Where was he from 1 ~. r~:!: ~:~ fu'Il:~!:s~:~fb~~ts=~~~th~.me time past 7 A. From Mississippi. Q. You have come here from Kansas i Q. What pa.rt of Mississippi 7 A. Yes, sir. A. I could not tell you. I saw so many of these people that I do not remember Q. Have you a wife and children 1 all the particulars concerning each one, and I did not then suppose that I would A. I have no children ; I have a wife. ever be asked down here to tell about it. Q. Where is your wife ~ Q. When these colored people got to Kansas, did they find that farm ready for A. I think she is at home by this time. them, that neat little cottage, and that mule and ca.rt, and those green trees and. Q. Where do you call •'home 7" things7 . A. Mississippi. A. No, sir.. Q. What is the county town of Yazoo County 7 Q. Did the man that showed you that picture go back 1 A. Yazoo City. A. Yes, sir; he went back, very indignant. Q. How long have you lived down there 7 Q. He expressed himself as being disgusted 7 A. All my life, except the last three months~ A. Yes, sir. I have known men, when they came there and found there was. Q. Were you born there 7 nothing for them, to go ba-0k the next day. They would go to the barra-0ks, take A. Yes, ail'. a look at the condition of things there, and turn a.round and go home. He then proceeds in a vein of humor and pathos to give a lengthy To those who could read circulars filled with sensational false­ account of his delusive jorirney to Kansas, his ha.rd, suffering ex­ hoods were sent, while to others were given glowing pictures of easy perience w bile there, and his determination to return home to Yazoo. and plentiful homes on the prairies of Kansas. A more stupendous· The spectacle of a negro fleeing from want and exposure in Kansas imposition than the entire exodus scheme, whether relating to Kan­ to the plenty and protection of Yazoo, Mississippi, conveys a most sas, to Indiana, or to any other State or Territory, was never prac­ instructive lesson on the subject of the exodus. ticed by unscrupulous adventurers on a credulous, ignorant people. Question. And now yon believe, if you go back home and take care of yourself, It is a fro.ud of vast proportions, and is not mitigated by a single you will get plenty of work to do while there 1 feature of merit. By the laws of his physical being the South is the Answer. I do not believe it, I know it. Q. What pay can you get for work in Yazoo County 'I natural and beneficent home ot; the negro. He is the offspring of A. Fifteen dollars a month and my board, regular. warm lands, and prospers under the vertical rays of hot suns. Cot­ Q. Do you have to go and hunt around much to get work down there 'I ton-fields, rice-swamps, and sugar plantations are sources of more A. No, sir; if somebody knows that you want to be hired you can just sit still remunerative employment to him than can be obtained by any other­ and hire yourself. Q. You a.re not afraid to go back down there, then7 laboring class to-day in the world. A. Not a bit; no more than I am afraid to go and get a drink of water. The colored race in the South also holds a guarantee for fair and * * • * * * liberal treatment in the necessities of the southern planter. The Q. What are you going to say to the people down there about going to Kansas 1 employer is restrained by self-interest, if by no higher or better mo­ A. If I see any of them that wauts to break up and go to Kansas ram going to tive, from dealing unjustly with the laborer on whom all his produc­ use the best means in my power to coax them off from that notion ; I will tell them that they mi~ht as well be in the middle of the Mississippi River when they could tions depend. The negro is a free man; he knows that fact, and he rg~:a~: ~~~~e ~t~ll them it will be a. race which they will do first, starve will not remain with an employer who defrauds or inflicts cruelty lo upon him. In the mean time education is going on; the children are Will any sane man pretend to believe that the country to which improving on their parents; the industrious, as I have shown, are­ this negro was hastening, the place of his birth, where he' had always acquiriag an interest in the soil ; the two races are growing more lived, where he could get constant work at $15 a month and board, and more useful and necessary to each other ; the traces of slavery and where he had no more fear to return than he had" to go and get and the rancors of the reconstruction period have almost entirely a drink of water"-will any sane man, I repeat, pretend to believe disappeared, and all that is requisite for continued and increasing­ that such a country was, or ever had been, a region of terror to Philip peace, prosperity, and happiness throughout the South is for natural Brookings or to his race 'I Such a supposition would simply be a libel causes to be left to dictate the results of the future, and for meddle­ on common. sense and a contradiction of every instinct of human na­ some schemers to let the people of both ra-0es alone. ture. Mr. WINDOM. Mr. President, it is not my purpose to interfere Sir, the causes of negro emigration from the Southern to the North­ with the wishes of the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. HARRIS] this­ ern States are not to be found in the treatment received by the col­ afternoon, and I shall not address the Senate upon the subject on ored people at the hands of the white race. The movement to Kansas which the Senator from Indiana [Mr. VOORHEES] has spoken, but I was inspired by different causes. One undoubtedly was to reduce the hope to before the close of the session. The evidence taken by the basis of representation in the South and increase it at the North un­ committee was not printed so that I was able to obtain a copy of it-­ der the approaching census. Another motive for inducing this trans­ until the day before yesterday, and I have not had an opportunity fer of population was to revive sectional agitation and bitterness by to read it. '.fbere is one point, however, to which I do wish to refer impressing the northern mind with a fresh horror on the subject of at this. time, as I think it illustrates very fully the character of this· supposed southern outrages. Agencies, amply endowed with means, whole investigation, and of this very labored and elaborate effort to have been established at various points to accomplish this object, and which we have just listened. to that end the1m agencies, and notably the one at Saint Louis and· The committee made a desperate effort to convict the republican the one at Topeka, Kansat:1, have engaged largely in the manufacture State central committee of Indiana of having induced the emigration­ of false testimony of a hearsay and wholly unreliable character. The to go into that State for political purposes, and the Senator from In­ evidence conclusively shows that the recitals of wrongs and injuries diana has to-day occupied nearly half an hour in trying to prove that by the so-called refugees were made under instructions and manu­ factJ and particularly the fact that said committee Lad sent a certain factured to order. In the testimony of H. H. Stanton, of Topeka, large sum of money, amounting to $600, to the agent of the Balti­ Kansas, the following disclosure on that point was made: more and Ohio Railroad in this city to pay the transportation of col­ Question. Did they tell you that they themselves were badly treated, or did they ored emigrants to Indiana. I was not willing to believe that the only tell you that they had heard of others who had been badly treated 9 honorable Senator wished to state what was not true. I know he­ Answer. Nobody could be found that had been badly treated themselves. I have did not in.tend to do so. I was not willing to believe that he wished noticed that particularly. I was considerably amused one day at a conversation that I overheard. Between my laundry and ice-house ai.d the high fence in the to mislead his own constituents 01; the country; and therefore I arose rear of my hotel there is a little vacant space. I happened to be out in the back and asked permission to interrupt him for the purpose of stating what yard, when I heard a. couple of these colored people talking; . there waa quite a was the fact with reference to the $600 which he says the republican· 4154 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE., JUNE 4,

committee of Indiana sent here in order to import some two or three able to bring that number of witnesses before the committee that we hundred colored people into Indiana. The Chair and the Senate wit­ desired to make this investigation thorough and full. I repeat what nessed the excitement of the honorable Senator when I tried to cor­ I said, that the fact is that there never has been any formal denial rect him upon that point, and his determination that no word of mine of our right to bring them ; there has simply been the fa.ct that there should be thrust into that part of his speech. I now desire to read was no room for them, no time to examine them, and finally by the the affidavit of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad agent upon that large number of witnesses summoned by the majority, no money to point: pay for any more1 and consequently we were not able to get them. I know, as has been read by the honorable Senator to-day, there W .ASHl~GTO~, District of Columbia, ss: have been colored men brought here from several States who have Georue S. Koontz, of Washington, District of Columbia, general agent of the sworn that their condition was happy and prosperous. Wherever a. Baltim~re and Ohio Railroad Company, being duly sworn, deposes and says: colored man could be found who had made a little money in the On the 3d day of December, 1879, tbere was a large lot of colored persons here who South, who had a few hundred acres of land, and who was happy and had come from North Carolina to Washington en route to Indianapolis, Indiana. They had been in the depot of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Company for sev­ contented, he had a very good chance to be brought before the com­ eral ua~ys . I called on a colored man, S. L. Peny, who bad them in charge, and mittee to swear to it. That is all I want to say to-day. I will review urged him to do something to ha•e them forwarded from Washin_gton. He said to the testimony in a few days, when I will endeavor to show some of me tbat if he coulu get word to Professors Bagby, Brayles, and Elbert, at Indian­ the real causes of the exodus . .a polis, they would deposit the money to pay their fare from Washington to InJian­ .apoUs. I suggested that; be should telegraph them. He said he had no money, and Mr. EATON. Does my friend remember that several weeks ago I asked me to telegraph for him. At bis dictation I prepared and sent our agen.t at made a report from the Committee on Appropriations, a resolution Indianapolis a telegram, of which the following is a. copy: adding $15,000 to the contingent fund, for the very reason that the W .ASIIINGTOX, D. C., December 3, 1879. contingent fund of the Senate was exhausted, and that the money 'To W. J3. TIN?\'EY, was required to pay witnesses for this very committee and other com­ Agent Baltimore and Ohio llailroad, Indianapolis, Indiana: mittees, and it was la.id upon the table and held over day after day Call on Professors ·Bagby, Brayles, and Elbert, and say that S. L. Peny and Will­ until there could be a long letter printed from the Secretary of the iams want them to deposit with you $600, for a party they have here from the .Soutb for Indianapolis. .Answer. Senate, at the instance of my honorable friend the Senator from Ver­ GEO. S. KOONTZ, mont, [Mr. EDMUNDS f] I just wish to say that to show the honor­ General Agent Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Oompany. able Senator from Minnesota [Mr. WTh"DOM] that if there was any Koontz goes on to swear: lack of money it did not come from the democratic members of the Senate. To this dispatch I recefred no response. In a. few days afterward tbe fares of this party were paid by Alr. Wall, a colored man, of Washington, District of Co­ Mr. WINDOM. I am aware that the democratic members of the lumbia. The greater part of this money was paid in pennies, in three, five, and Senate never denied the money. ten cent pieces, done up in packages of from fifty cents to $5. Wall informed Mr. EATON. We did not desire to deny it, either. me that the sum of money was made up from contributions by Sanday schools, Mr. WINDOM. I do not think they did; but when we came to churches, and other organizations, as well as from charitable persons. No part of this money, to my knowledge, came from Indianapolis. No money.to my knowl­ consider whom we should send for we were informed that the money ·edge ever came from Indianapolis, or elsewhere outside of Washington City, to was gone; the Sergeant-at-Arms so informed me, and I certainly did ;pay transportation of these people. not desire that we should have our witnesses brought here to peddle GEO. S. KOONTZ. their certificates on the streetfl'and consequently wa did not summon Sub cribetl and sworn to before me this 4t;b day of .Tune, A. D. 1880. them. I do not say this for the purpose of excusing the character of R. B. NIXON, this testimony. When I come to examine it, as I shall within a day Notary Public. or two, I think it will be found that notwithstanding we summoned During the investigltion a request was made to have Mr. Koontz outside of this town but nineteen of the one hundred and fifty-five brought before the committee; and it was understood that he should witnesses, there is a. very good cause shown for this exodus which I be examined. I think the statement was then and there made as to will present to the Senate and to the country as soon as there is a what be would swear to on this subject. I know that when the report favorable opportunity. was agreed to be made the other day I stated that I desired to have Mr. PENDLETON. Mr. President, I desire to ask the Senator from Mr. Koontz sworn., a.nd it was understood that his affidavit might be :Minnesota whether or not any single witness has not been brought included in the testimony. here whom he desired to subpmna by reason of an absence of funds Now, I will not assert that the honorable Senator knew the char­ or want of funds to bring him V acter of that affidavit when he was spending half an hour before the Mr. WINDOM. I have had letters from hundreds of people stating Senate trying to prove to the country that the republican committee important testimony that could be given, who have not been sum­ -0f Indiana had forwarded $600 here for that purpose; and yet I was moned simply because of the enormous expense incurred. very much surprised when that good-hearted Senator-for we all con­ Mr. PENDLETON. I am not asking the Senator whether he has -

i880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4155

Mr. WINDOM. I find no fault with that. I agreed that the re­ Mr. WINDOM. Not by any manner of means; but we had urgent port should be made without a meeting. It was not that of which I request.a for more than twenty-- resident, what I said before, that Mr. PENDLETON. No, sir. the witnesses who were here were paid by sharpers who had to-­ Mr. WINDOM. I have intimated no such thing. I have simply Mr. PENDLETON. No, sir; no, sir. -said that the majority of the committee flooded the committee-room Mr. WINDOM. Will the Senator allow me to answer'/ with their witnesses, and thereby crowded us out until the money was Mr. PENDLETON. I deny the proposition that any witness who ,gone-not intentionally crowded us out, but in effect crowded us out wa-s brought here was paid by sharpers. until the money was gone and there was no opportunity for us. Mr. WINDOM. I do not know what the Senator calls them; but Mr. PENDLETON. I desire to ask the Senator from Minnesota he asked me a question and I hope he will allow me to answer. whether on the other hand it was not notorious that the committee­ Mr. PENDLETON. Certainly. room was crowded day after day, and week after week, by gentlemen Mr. WINDOM. I say it is a fact that a large number of witnesses who were there either under the subpcena or by the invitation of the had to peddle their certificates and have them shaved. minority; whether they were not there sitting in that committee­ Mr. PENDLETON. That is another question. The Senator said room. I ask the Senator whether I cannot name half-a-dozen or a the witnesses who were brought here were paid by sharpers. I say -dozen men, notably this same gentleman of whom he speaks, Mr. that not a single certificate of a witness need to have been peddled Burch, and another person whose name has escaped me for the mo­ upon the streets of this city to be shaved by sharpers, not because I ment, whose name I am sure he will remember, who were there for say there was al ways money at the very moment to pay them, as there several weeks in attendance without the lea~t possibility of their ought to have been, and as the Senator with myself was willing that being called to give their testimony'? there should have been, but because we could not always get through Mr. WINDOM. There were a few witnesses there on our behalf the Senate a resolution authorizing the payment. But the suggestion who remained several days and weeks. that any witnesses who came here to attend upon this committee were Mr. PENDLETON. ''Several days" was not several weeks ! paid by sharpers, or paid in any interest of that kind, I beg leave to say Mr. WINDOM. I said "weeks." to the Senator, is a suggestion that·is entirely without foundation. Mr. PENDLETON. If several witnesses of the minority were there Mr. WINDOM. The Senator .finds a good deal of fault with the several days and weeks, how can the Senator know that the majority word "sharper," and I will not use it. I simply say that a largeflum­ of the committee crowded the room so that the witnesses whom he ber of witnesses were compelled to have their certificates shaved. desired could not find opportunity Y They could not get the money from the contingent fund of the Senate. Mr. WINDOM. I simply say this, that out of the one hundred and Mr. PENDLETON. The Senator knows as well a.a I do that the fifty-five witnesses summoned, but nineteen were summoned by us majority and the minority of the committee were willing instant! outside of this city. to correct that difficulty, but the expense had exceeded for the mo­ Mr. PENDLETON. But still our committee-room was small, and ment the contingent fund of the Senate, and these men could not nineteen being there all the time would crow(l it very much. wait, and did not wait; and yet he and I both aided, as far a.s we Afr. WINDOM. The Senate will see readily that nineteen could not could, to supply the deficiency. -0rowd it as much as the difference between nineteen and one hundred Mr. WINDO:;\f. Certainly; but the money was not here to pay the and fifty-five could. witnesses. Mr. PENDLETON. Nineteen all the time would crowd it much Mr. PENDLETON. The money was not here; but I again come more that one hundred and fifty-five spread over two or three months. back to the Senator and ask him whether he can stand before the Mr. WINDOM. I have not said that they were all there. I have Senate and say that any single witness that he desired to have brought :Said some few witnesses remained two or three weeks. I repeat, here for the purpose of giving testimony in this case was not brought that so far as the examination of witnesses was concerned, so far as because there was not the money to pay him 'I a. response to requests to summon them was concerned, I make no Mr. WINDOM. I repeat what I said before, that a very large num­ compl:lint; but I do say, and I repeat, that the witnesses who were ber were not asked for, for the reason that there was no time to ex­ .summoned were brought here by the Sergeant-at-Arms scouring the amine them on account of the crowd of witnesses brought here by country, and whereverhecould:findaman whowouldsweartherewas the majority, and because the minority were not willing to send for nothing in the exodus he would bring him, and by reason of the large witnesses until the money wa~ provided for to pay them. number of such witnesses called we were unable to get our chance. Mr. PENDLETON. On the contrary, it bas been three weeks since Mr. PENDLETON. Witnesses were brought in by the Sergeant-at­ we examined a single witness in that committee, and we have been Arms, and he was the proper eustodian of the process of the Senate ready to examine any witnesses that might be produced since that to bring them here. He was the person who was in trusted, either by time. himself or his deputies, with the service of the subpcena'3, the process Mr. HARRIS. Mr. President, I feel constrained to call for the reg­ of the Senate ; and ho brought the witnesses here, and he brought ular order. Having yielded to the Senator from Indiana, I felt bound -every witness that you had here, except the volunteers, who may have to yield to the Senator from Minnesota; but I did not feel justified come in eome other way. or at liberty to yield further. Mr. WINDOM. I said that the Sergeant-at-Arms, as I was informed The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Tennessee de­ and believed, and the Senator has not denied that, brought them here mands the consideration of the regular order. -on blank sabpamas that he was sent out with to huut up witnesses. Mr. VOORHEES. I hope the Senator will allow me to make a Mr. PENDLETO~. I do not know whether he brought them on single statement which will not lead to any discussion between the blank subpoona-s. If he did, it was only that there might not be Senator from Minnesota. and myself. I desire to say that my relations brought here a mass of witnesses whose testimony we did not know have been very cordial and kind with the Senator from Minnesota wonlcl be valuable, and thus we saved in that way in the expenses duxing this examination; and if in tho excitement of speaking-for of the committee. !must say-andlmake the reruarkin the kindest that was all I was conscious of-I betrayed any irritation toward him ~nd most proper spirit in the world-that the whole suggestion that now or in what I said when I was making my speech it was quite un­ there has not been the fairest possible examination by this committee, intentional. tllat it has been more elaborate, more expensive, or taken up more In regard to the affidavit of ~fr. Koontz let me say that Mr. Koontz time, or consumed more money than was necessary, I think is errtirely is the railroad agent at the Baltimore and Ohio depot here, and he unwa.rranted as it comes from the gentlemen on the other side. was about the committee-room from the first to the last, and why he Mr. WINDOM. There is one point I wish to call the Senator's was not examined I do not know. I know that it was no fault or attention to especially, that the minority of the committee did not, purpose of the Senator from Minnesota or bis associate, the Senator according to ruy recollection, summon one witness from the State of from New Hampshire; but he was not examined, and the other day­ North Carolina. I am sore the Senator will pardon me for the liberty I take-the other Mr. PENDLETON. Then, was it because you had no witnesses to day talking to him about the report he said he had desired to get Mr. bring from that State ' Koontz's statement on the subject of that transportation to Indian- 4156 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 4,

apolis, and as it was too late to call the committee together again he R. No. 6325) making appropriations to supply deficiencies in the suggested an affidavit. I told him to get it; I would not object to it appropriations for the :fiscal year ending June 30, 1880, and for prior at all. And to-day is the first time I have ever heard a word of Mr. years, and for those certified as due by the accounting officers of the Koontz's affidavit. I never saw it. At the same time I do not think Treasury in accordance with section 4 of the act of Jone 14, 1878, it materially changes the weight of the statement which I made based heretofore paid from permanent appropriations, and for other pur­ on the testimony of Tinney, Morris, and one or two others. That, poses; which were referred to the Committee on Appropriations, and however, is a matter of argument. . ordered to be printed. Now, in regard to the spirit in which this investigation took place, 1'1Ir. JONAS submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by I know that I tried to be fair ; and I think the record will bear me him to the bill (S. No. 1771) to establish a post-route in Missouri; out. There were, I think, one hundred and :fifty-nine witnesses ex­ which was referred to the Committee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads, amined. Of these fifty.four were democrats and ninety-four were and ordered to be printed. republicans; and fifty were negroes out of the one hundred and :fifty­ HOUSE BILLS REFERRED. nine. Ninety-four were republicans, :fifty-four democrats, and two or three .greenback friends, and others of less prominent political The following bill and joint resolution received from the House of affiliations. I think that was a pretty" fair divide." I have no don bt Representatives were severally read twice by their titles, :\nd r.eferred that if the session were to last longer and we had not been so crowded to the Committee on Military Affairs: the Senator from Minnesota would have desired to take more testi­ A bill (H. R. No. 3151) for the relief of Francis W. Maxwell; and mony. There were circumstances connected with my own family A joint resolution (H. R. No. 316) granting the use of artillery, matters last winter calling me to Indiana which took me away for muskets, and tents at the soldiers' reunion at Decatur, illinois. some time, and toward the last there was a rush of hard work before POST-OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL. the committee; but I must say in all kindness to the Senator from Minnesota that this is the first time I ever knew a lawyer to decline The Senate proceeded to consider thA action of the House of Repre­ calling witnesses because the other side had a great many in attend­ sentatives on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. No. ance. This is the first time I have ever known anything of that 6036) making appropriations for the service of the Post-Office Depart­ kind. ment for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1881, and for other purposes> In regard to the expense of this committee a single word. We have disagreed to by the Honse of Representatives. spent some money, I think in the neighborhood of $30,000. I was a On motion of Mr. BOOTH, it was member of an investigating committee within the last ten years Resolved, That the Senate insist upon its amendments to the said bill disagreed which went to the South, traveled over the country; and an inspec­ t-0 by the House of Representatives, and disagree to the amendment of the House to­ the seventh amendment of the Senate, and ask a conference with the House on the tion of the records will show that $89,000 was expended in that exam­ disagreeing Yotes of the two Houses thereon. ination. The Senator from South Caro~na [Mr. HAMPTON] suggests to me that it was 95,000. I thought I was correct; but perhaps he By unanimous consent, it was is. At any rate it was a very large sum, and I do not know of any­ Ordered, Tha.t the committee on the part of the Senate be appointed by the Pres­ thing that grew out of that republican investigation except some ident pro tempore. political capital. I am willing to submit this examination in all its The PRESIDENT pro tempore appointed Mr. WALLACE, l\Ir. BECK, bearings, as to the expense, as to the spirit in which it has been con­ and Mr. BOOTH. ducted, as to the number of witnesses called by the republican minor­ CLAIMS AGA.I:NST THE DISTRICT. ity, to a comparison for fairness with any investigation that ever took Mr. HARRIS. I insist now on the regular order. ~~ . The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, proceeded to consider That, I believe, is all I desire to say. the bill (H. R. No. 2328) to provide for the settlement of all outstand­ DRONZE CANNO:N FOR :MEADE STATUE. ing claims against the District of Columbia, and conferring j orisdic­ The PRESIDENT pro tcrnpore. The consideration of the regular tion on the Court of Claims to hear the same, and for other purposes. order is resumed, being House bill No. 2328. Before the reading of The bill was reported from the Committee on the District of Co­ the bill commences the Chair will lay before the Senate a message lumbia. with amendments. from the House of Representatives and call the attention of the Sen­ The first amendment was in section 1, line 6, after the word ''con­ ator from Rhode Island [Mr. BURNSIDE] to it. tracts," to strike out the following words: The Chief Clerk read as follows: And not barred by any act of Congress or failure to comply with the requirements of any act of Congress, including certificates of auditor and of boa.rd of audit, L'i TilE HOUSE OF REPI1ESEXTATl'/KS, sewer certificates, sewer taxes, measurements, covered by contracts made since June 4, 1880. February 21, 1871: Provided, That said Court of Claims shall not take jurisdiction Resolved, That the House concur in the amendments of the Senate to the bill of any ciaim against the District of Columbia. which was not presented to the (H. R. No. 2440) to authorize the Secretary of War to transfer to the Fairmount board of audit under the provisions of the act of June20, 1874, and of March 3, 1875, Park Art Association eighty condemned or captured bronze cannon, to be used in excepting such claims as have arisen out of contracts made by the District com· · the erection of an equestrian statue to the late Major-General George Gordon missioners since the pa.ssa.ge of the said act of June 20, 1874. :Meade, with amendments, as follows: In line 3 of the bill strike out the word "or." And in lieu thereof to insert : Amend the title so as to read as follows: "An act to authorize the Secretary of Made by the late board of publio works, and extensions thereof made by the War to transfer to the Fairmount Park Art Association thirty condemnetl bronze commissioners of the District of Columbia, and such claims as bave arisen out of cannon, to be used in the erection of an equestrian statue to the late Major.Gen· contracts made by the district commissioners smce the passage of the act of June era! George Gordon Meade." 20, 1874; and all certificates of the auditor of said board of public works, all certifi· cates issued by the board of audit, all certificates issued by the auditor a:::id comp· Mr. BURNSIDE. I move that the Senate concur in the amend­ troller of the District of Columbia, all sewer certificates, all sewer t:ues not here­ ments of the House of Representatives to the amendments of the tofore converted into 3.65 bondti, all measurements made by the engineers of said Senate. District of work done under contracts made since February 21, 1871, for which no certifica.tes have been issued to ancl receivecl by the contractor or his assi_gnee, all The motion was agreed to. claims based upon contracts made by the board of public works for whicn no evi· SENATE LIBRARY. dence of indebtedness has been issued. The PRESIDENT pro tenipore laid before the Senate a communica­ Mr. HARRIS. Before action is taken upon the amendment, I a.m tion from the Secretary of the Senate, transmitting, in reply to a reso­ instructed by the Committee on the District of Columbia to move to lution of the Senate of this day, the number, names, and salaries of trike out, in line 25, after the word "works," the language "all cer­ employes of the Senate library; which, on motion of l\'Ir. COCKRELL, tificates issued by the board of audit." was ordered to lie on the table and be printed. The committee instruct me to move to strike those words out of the amendment for this reason : There was a large amount of indebted­ REPORT OF A CO:\L'1ITTEE. ness at the time that the board of public works and the territorial Mr. PLATT, from the Committee on Pensions. to whom was referred government of the District of Columbia were abe>lished, amounting the bill (S. No. 365) for the relief of Hardie Hogan Helper, reported to $15,000,000 or $16,000,000. The board of audit was created. It has it with an amendment, and submitted a report thereon; which was audited about fourteen and a half million dollars of indebtedness, ordered to be printed. has issued certificates to the extent of thirteen million five hundred BILL INTRODUCED. and forty-three thousand and some odd dollars; their certificates have Mr. BAILEY asked, and by unanimous consent obtained, leave to been furn.led in the 3.65 bonds. The committee entertain .the opin­ introduce a bill (S. No. 1817) for the relief of William G. Ford, admin­ ion that it is improper to send the holders of these certificates that istrator of John G. Robinson, deceased; which was read twice by its are yet outstanding, amounting to about $758,000, to the Court of title, and referred to the Committee on Claims. Claims, but propose to fund their certificates in 3.65 bonds. I therefore move to strike out, in line 25, "a,U certificates issuecl by Al\:IE:NDMENTS TO BILLS. the board of audit;" and I have prepared an amendment as an addi­ Mr. VOORHEES, Mr. BAILEY, Mr. HEREFORD, and Mr.KERNAN tional section to the bill authorizing the sinking-fund commissioner submitted amendments intended to be proposed by them respectively to fund the outstanding certificates of the boa.rd of audit. to the bill (H. R. No. 6266) making appropriations for sundry civil The PRESIDING OFFICER, (Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin, in the expenses of the Government for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1881, chair.) The question i1:1 on the amendment of the Senator from Ten­ and for other purposes; which were referred to the Committee on nessee [Mr. HARRIS] to the amendment reported from the Committee Appropriations, and ordered to be printed. ·on the District of Columbia.. Mr. PLATT, Mr. KERNAN, and Mr. PADDOCK submitted amend­ Mr. McMILLAN. Mr. President, I do not rise at this time to speak ments intended to be proposed by them respectively to the bill (H. directly with reference to the amendment proposed by the Senator 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4157 from Tennessee, but rather to call the attention of the Senate to this I call the attention of the Senate, however, to the amendment re­ bill. I regret that as a member of the Committee on the District of ported from the Committee on the District of Columbia. The bill as Columbia I was unable to agree with the committee in reporting the it came from the Honse provided : bill. I think it is wrong from its enacting clause to the last word, That the jurisdiction of the Court of Claims is hereby extended to, and it shall I have exclusive original, legal, and equitable jurisdiction of, all claims now existing ·and to no part of it can assent. against the District of Columbia, arising out of contracts, and not barred by any This bill deals with claims against the District of Columbia. The.v act of Congress or failure to comply witli the requirements of any act of Congress, arise out of transactions which occurred long since, connected with including certificates of auditor and of board of audit, sewer certificates, sewer which were innumerable irregularities, to characterize them in the taxes, measurements, covered by contra<:ts made since February 21, 1871: Pro­ mildest terms. The bill deals with claims which have been out­ vided, That said Court of Claims shall not take jurisdiction of any claim against the District of Columbia. which was not presented t.o the board of audit under the standing for a long time ; many·of them have no basis in equity ; provisions of the act of June 20, 1874, and of March 3, 1875, excepting such cmims many of them have originated in illegalities; and large proportions as have arisen out of contracts made by the District commissioners since the of them are in the hands of persons who have no other claim than passage of the said act of June 20, 1874. that thev purchased them, perhaps for an inadequate sum of money. That part of the bill the Committee on the District of Columbia The bill removes all the statutes of limitations which have run propose to strike out and to amend the section by inserting in lieu of -against. all these stale claims. It revives all these claims which have it what has been read. You will observe that the effect of striking been fioat.ing about in the community, which have been the subject out this provision is expressly to relieve all these contracts from any of barter, and which have been dealt in by, I may correctly say, bar of the statute which has run against them. sharpers; so that the claims have been transferred for considerations I have nothing further to say upon this question. I think the bill which have been but trifling in their character, owing to the nature is one that will be very bad in its operation. I call the attention of -0f the claims themselves. the Senate to it, and I shall not trouble myself further than at this Mr. JONES, of Florida. May I ask the Senator a question for in­ time to present the matter as it suggests itself to me. To all these formation' amendments to the bill and to the bill itself I am opposed, and I shall Mr. McMILLAN. Yes, sir. vote against them. Mr. JONES, of Florida. What is the amount of the aggregate of Mr. HARRIS. Mr. President, I was aware that the Sena.tor from these claims' Minnesota [Mr. McMILLAN] was opposed to the bill. He chances Mr. McMILLAN. I cannot approximate the amount, because it is to be the only member of the Committee on the District of Columbia, indefinite. I cannot give the Senator information on that subject. however, who is opposed to it. I do not think the reasons that moved Mr. INGALLS. The amounts are just as well ascertained as the the Senator are altogether satisfactory, and indeed to me they are simplest proposition in mathematics. not satisfactory at all. . Mr. McMILLAN. Then the Senator from Kansas can give the Sen­ The bill settles nothing except to give the Court of Claims juris­ .ator from Florida the information he desires. diction in respect to all claims based upon contracts made by the Mr. President, not only does the bill propose to do what I have board of public works and the commissioners of the District of Co­ stated, but it proposes to transfer from a jurisdiction which already lumbia. It is not fair to presume that any recovery can or will be exists rights of action to a tribunal which has no jurisdiction what­ had unless the claim can be shown by competent testimony to be just. ever of cases of this kind. The courts of the District of Columbia But the Senator complains that a particular court is given jurisdic­ are regularly organized; they are courts that are administered by the tion, and he wants to know the reason for it. I will state the reason. judiciary of this District. The laws that govern them are laws well The dockets of the supreme court of the District of Columbia are known to the Senate and to the profession of the law. If the suitors to-day so crowded that if you were to bring a suit there to-day there who hold these claims have any cause of action, they can go into the is not a remote probability that you would get a trial in two or three ~ourts of the District of Columbia and have justice administered to years. These people have been long delayed. These claims, as the them, at law or in equity. Senator remarks, are becoming somewhat hoary with age. They We have recently added to the judges of the supreme court of the originated from 1871to1874, and possibly some of them subsequent District a number sufficient to meet all the wants of the administra­ to 187 4. The Court of Claims happens to have a. docket bare of cases; tion of justice here. Why do these parties not go into the tribunals it is ready to hear and determine these cases at once, and may dis­ of justice already provided, where the laws of contracts can be ad­ pose-of them very promptly if the jurisdiction is given to that court. ministered, where juries of their countrymen can pass upon questions There is no reason why that court should not have the jurisdiction of fact Y Why remove all these things from the courts of law in this to hear and determine these claims as well as the suoreme court of District and transfer them to a court of limited jurisdiction, a court the District of Columbia that I can see or that any member of the established by the statutes of the United States for the single pur­ committee except the honorable Senator from Minnesota could see. pose of determining claims against the Government of the United As to the statute of limitations, I suppose that in a great majority States in the hands of her citizens! of the cases, if not, indeed, in all of them, if the statute of limitations The Court of Claims wa-s established in order that a citizen of the were pleaded it would be a bar to action in these cases ; yet it would Government of the United States might ~o into it· and establish a be not only unjust and improper, but a gross wrong under the cir­ -claim against the General Government which was not otherwise sub­ cumstances, in my judgment, for the Government to rely upon the ject to action. That tribunal wa-s provided for that purpose. These statute of limitations in rehpect to these claims. When the terri­ citizens of the District of Columbia, with all the rights existing here, torial government was abolished in 1874, the very act that abolished to which I have referred, not content to embrace the privilege of the it created a board of audit and gave that board jurisdiction to sit .administration of the law in the regular tribunals, come in now and upon and audit all of these claims and to issue its certificates for the by this meru:inre ask the Oongress of the United States to remove all claims that it allowed, and those certificates were to be converted or the statutes of Jimitation which have run against their stale claims, funded into 3.65 bonds. To the extent of thirteen a.nd three-quarter and to give them a right of action in the Court of Claims where no million dollars they did audit, they did issue certificates, and they question of fact can be examined by a jury, where witnesses are ex­ were funded into 3.65 bonds. There are outstanding to-day $758,000 amined by deposition, and where the opportunities for investigation of the certificates of the board of audit. There are other claims that are not to be compared with those in the tribunals already in exist­ the board of audit did not determine, did not audit, that are still ence in this District. outstanding, claims that were :filed before them, but which they 4ad Not only does the bill do this, but it provides for the issuance of a no time to audit. The board was abolished by the act of 1876, before large number of 3.65 bonds to pay any judgment which may in any they could audit them, and from the very day the board of audit was event be rendered in faV'Or of these persons, and it provides that they abolished down to this day there has not been a session of Congress shall be compelled to take those bonds in payment of their judgments. that has not had a bill pending in one or in both Houses of Congress Perhaps the suitors may be very glad to take the amounts of their providing a means of settling these claims. So far as the introduc­ judgments in such bonds, but it would not seem to be a very proper tion and the constant nrgin~ and the passage in the one Honse or the way for the Government of the United States to pass a compulsory law other of bills session by session goes the claimants have been induced compelling these suitors to take these bonds in the payment of their to believe that Congress would provide a simple and easy method of judgments, if the Government can do so. adjusting these claims. Mr. JONES, of Florida. I should like to ask the Senator a ques­ I can see no }lossible harm that can result to the District of Colum­ tion. These parties, the Senator says, have a remedy in the courts bia, to the Government of the United States, or to any one by giving of the District of Columbia. to the Court of Claims jurisdiction to examine and determine whether Mr. McMILLAN. Wherever their action is not barred they have these claims are just or unjust, and where they find them just to de­ their remedy in the courts of the District of Columbia. termine the amount of them, and then let them be funded, as kindred· Mr. JONES, of Florida. Are not these claims against the United claims have been funded, in the 3.65 bonds. That is the object of Sta.test this bill. Mr. McMILLAN. No, sir; they are not claims against the United Mr. KIRKWOOD. I should like to ask the Senator from Tennessee .States; they are claims against the District of Columbia. I am not if there has been any obstacle in the way of holders of these claims very familiar with the claims which are in existence now. I only bringing snits in the ordinary courts of the District of Columbia since know that large amounts of them have passed from the hands of the the abolition of the board of audit T original claimants; that they have been bought up for very trifling Mr. HARRIS. None whatever. sums, and are in1the hands of assignees; and the bill provides that Mr. KIRKWOOD. If they have lain upon their rights, then, from suit may be brought in the name of the original claimant or his as­ the abolition of the board of audit until now, and in this way have signee. I am not able at this time to give specific information with become barred, what ground is there for their coming in and asking reference to these classes of claims. for this relief 7 4158 OONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 4,

Mr. HARRIS. The only excuse is that by the introduction of bills tificates that bear the signature and imprimatur of the Government and by the passage of bills in the one Honse or the other, but which there were issued $14,501,476.15. At the time when that arbitrary and have never chanced to become a law ·by passing both Houses in the despotic prohibition was imposed by Congress there had been funded same Congress, Congress has constantly held out the hope to them of into these bonds 13,743,250, leaving outstanding of certificates of an easier method of adjusting their claims than by litigating them in precisely the same character and validity as those that had been the supreme court of the District of Columbia, whose dockets have funded $758,226.15. There they have remained up to this day; they been so crowded that they could have no hope of obtaining a hearing have so remained by act of Congress; and the Senator from Minne­ in that courb for two or three years from the time of bringing their sota says that it is wrong to remove the burden of limitation. We suits. have ourselves postponed these claims, we have prevented their pay­ Mr. KIRKWOOD. And yet those persons have waited how many ment, prevented their recognition, prevented them from drawing in­ yearsf terest ; and then the Senator from Minnesota comes in here and says Mr. HARRIS. The board of audit was abolished in 1876. they are outlawed and they ought not again to be allowed recogni­ Mr. KIRKWOOD. Four years ago. It looks to me to be a rather tion in the courts or anywhere else. slim ground upon which to remove the bar of the statutes of limita­ How the Senator from Minnesota, who is a lawyer and has a judicial tion. mind, can justify himself by making that argument before the Sen­ Mr. PLATT. May I ask the chairman of the committee the ques­ ate is past my comprehension. There never has been an intimation tion which was asked of the Senator from Minnesota, what is the that those outstanding certificates, $758,226.15, were uot absolutely approximate a.mount of the claims 'I valid, binding, and satisfactory in their proof aml in their authentica­ .Mr. HARRIS. The probable amount of the outstanding claims I tion; but of the $13,700,000 of bonds that have been issued iu behalf should say would approximate a million and a quarter dollars. As to of the Distrjct authorities that have been countersigned by the United what proportion of that amount can be shown to be just, it is impos­ States Government, to which the faith of the Government has been sible for the committee to tell; but that is about the aggregate pledged for the payment of a sinking fund and of interest, between amount of outstanding claims, in gross. eight and nine million dollars are to-day registered in the Treasury The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the amendment of the United States, and are held in trust all over this country as of the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. HARrus] to the amendment re­ deposits for the protection of holders of insurance, for savings pur­ ported from the Committee on the District of Columbia. poses, and in various trust companies. Between eight and nine mill­ Mr. KIRKWOOD. That includes striking out so much as removes ions are registered and are held, and the interest is paid by the United the bar of the statute of limitations, I understand. States Treaaury every year exactly the same as on 4 and 5 per cent. Mr. HARRIS. No, sir. The amendment I propose to the amend­ bonds of the United States. ment is in line 25, after the word "works/' to strike out "all certifi­ What is asked in this case is simply that the prohibition that was cates issued by the board of audit." The reason why I make that placed without reason and without warrant upon the funding of this proposition is that all the certificates issued by the board of audit ascertained amount of indebtedness shall be removed, and that all have been funded in 3.65 bonds except these that are outstanding, classes of creditors who occupy the same position shall have exactly and the committee could see no reason why the holders of this little the same rights and the same remedies. If there is anything unjust balance of board of audit certificates should be driven tO go into court in that or anything wrong in that I should like to have the Senator upon those certificates when thirteen and three-quarter million dol­ from Minnesota. or some one else point it out. It is idle to talk about lars of exactly the same character of paper has already been funded the irregularity and wrong-doings of the District government. Here in 3.65 bonds. is an ascertained, defined, authenticated amount of actual indebted­ Mr. KIRKWOOD. Why were not bonds issued for those certifi­ ness that has been recognized for the last six or eight years. cates f Mr. SAULSBURY. Will the Senat.orfromKansas allow me to ask, ~fr. HARRIS. They had not been funded in 1876 when the board for information, if these certificates are in the hands of the original of audit was abolished, and when the further issue of 3.G5 bonds was holders or are they in the hands of persons who have bought them up prohibited by the joint resolution which abolished the board of audit. at a considerable discount T I want to know, as I have no informa­ They could not be funded since that time, because the board of audit tion on that subject. was abolished. Mr. INGALLS. Well, Mr. President, I am bound to say to the Sen­ I Mr. KIRKWOOD. I am wholly ignorant about this matter. Is ator from Delaware that I have heard that question many times asked, the Senator aware whether there were allegations of fraud in regard and that I do not really know anything about it. I do not know to the action of the board of audit Y whether they are in the bands of the persons to whom they were orig­ Mr. HARRIS. I am not aware of any allegation of fraud or any inally issued or whether they have been assigned from time to time suspicion of fraud in respect to the board of audit. I have heard no and are now held by second or third parties. But will the Senator such allegation, and I am wholly ignorant if there be any such sus­ from Delaware allow me in response to ask him, supposing they had picion. passed by indefinite assignment and transfer from hand to hand nntil Mr. INGALLS. In response to the inquiry of the Senator from they were indefinitely removed from the persons to whom they had Iowa, I beg to say that he haa evidently confounded the board of been sued, how does that affect the obligation of the Government to audit with the board of public works. recognize them, the same as it recognizes the $13,000,000 that have Mr. KIRKWOOD. I do not know anything about any of them. been funded Y Mr. INGALLS. The certificates that were issued by the board of Mr. SAULSBURY. I do not know that their simple transfer would audit, to which the Senator from Tennessee has referred, were not of itself lessen the obligation of the Government to pay them; but if onlv examined and allowed by the District authorities, but they have there had been in the auditing of the securities any fraud or imposi­ also been examined and allowed under authority of law by the First tion upon the Government, then when we came to adjust them in the Auditor and the First Comptroller of the United States Treasury, and hands of an assignee perhaps we might inquire into the original bear their signatures to-day. · validity of tho security. I have a vague impression that something I wish to say a single word. in response to whait the Senator from of that kind was developed at the time to which the Senator refers, Minnesota [Mr. McMILLAN] said. He bears the reputation of being when a large class of these securities were funded, and that the fund­ a just man; he is a lawyer by profession, andhas adorned the bench ing had taken place before that question was prominently brought or the State which he represents ; and yet I venture to say that if to our attention. Still it has been some years since, and I would not under his jurisdiction any private debtor had endeavored to act to­ speak definitely on that point. I have the impression resting on my ward his creditors as he asks this District and the United State!! Gov­ mind that at the time the funding process was going on and when it ernment to act toward these creditors he would have done all in his was stopped as the Senator from Kansas says there had been discov­ power to have thrown them into involuntary bankruptcy and to have eries that a portion of these certificates were thought to have been in their effects disposed of under the hammer of the marshal within some way not exactly fairly issued ; a portion of them had been ninety days. funded, and because of the discovery of that fact the funding system There has been a great deal said about the doings of the board of was stopped. public works in this District. -A vast amount of scandal and a vast Mr. KERNAN. Allow me to make a remark. I was a new mem­ amount of unjustifiable stigma has been cast upon .the authorities ber here when we stopped the funding of these certificates into 3.65 who had charge of the improvements made while that board existed. bonds. At that time it was urged that there were certificates of the I am not the advocate, nor the apologist, nor the defender of Mr. board of public works out that were fraudulent, and it waa asked that Shepherd or anybody else. The expenditures that were made here we should stop the funding because if these fraudulent certificates may have been extravagant; they may have imposed a burden that were funded into negotiable bonds they would pass into the hands of the people were ill-qualified to bear; but I say that there is no city bona fide holders, and of course they would recover notwithstanding in the world in my judgment where there is so much to show for the the fraud. money that has been expended as is visible here in the city of Wash­ I do not think there was anything said as to its not being right to ington; and the time will come when the people of this District will send the holder of the certificate, whether he wa-s the original holder appreciate that better than they do now. or a transferee, into court to see if he could not recover. In 1876, when the great cyclone struck Congress in regard to reform While the discussion about stopping the funding was going on, a not only here but everywhere else, action on the funding of these cer­ citizen, who then gave me his ea.rd, came down from the galleries tifica.tes into bonds was suspended by direct act of Congress. A pro­ and handed me a small certificate issued, as I inferred, by this board hibition was placed upon the funding of the certificates that had not of public works for the taking of some property or injury done to only been audited by the District authorities but that had been audited some property of his here, and he said to me that that property was by the authorities of the United States Government. Of those cer- never taken; the certificate came to him accidentally as the owner, 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4159 he believing that somebody else had put in a claim and had the cer­ can say, I think, that if the action of the Government deprived these tificate issued, but he had received notice to go for it and get it, and men of any right they bad of recovery, if the Government interposed he did g.o. I rnmember that I suggested that case in private to Mr. any bar that prevented them going into court and bringing their suits, Sherman, who was then a Senator, who was interested in the matter, then the bar that has grown up in that way ~hould be removed. But as a reason why we ought to put a stop to the issue of negotiable cer­ here you say these men stood by in the hope that Congress would pay tificates which might get into the hands of bona fide holders, and hence them ; they failed to go into the courts to submit their claims to­ be recoverable, when the original holder or his assignee if they were adjudication, and now they come in and ask that the bar which has not negotiable could not recover. grown up by their own negligence shall be removed, and that their Mr. KIRKWOOD. Of course, Mr.President, with what little knowl­ cases shall be tried in a court in which a jury cannot be organized to edge of law I have I should have to agree with the Sena.tor from determine whether the claim is a just one or not. Kansas that if these claims are valid, honest claims in the ba.nds of Mr. BUTLER. May I ask the honorable Senator does it not come an assignee, they are to be paid as well as if they were in the hands within his knowledge that the bar of the statute has been very fre­ of the orin'inal holder; but when these gentlemen come here and ask quently removed by Congress Y us to tak~ out of their way a bar that has grown up by their own Mr. KIRKWOOD. Against the Government itself for various rea­ negligence, and which~ if it be not rem~ved, prevents them from en­ sons, and we are in the habit of doing it, and we very often do a great tering into "the promised land," then it seems to me we have the deal of wron(J' in doing it. right to impose such reasonable, equitable conditions as we may see Mr. BUTLER. Since I have been in the Senate, I remember several fit. Now I cannot yet learn that there bas been anything in the way instances where it has been done. at any time of the bolder of these obligations of any one of these Mr. KIRKWOOD. I think we very often do a gre21t wrong in re­ varieties, from prosecuting his claim in the ordinary w~1 y i o tho conrts moving-it. of justice, just precisely as a citizen of :my other town in the United Mr. BUTLER. Just exactly why these people have not availed States would prosecute a claim, unpa.id, against the mnnicipal au­ themselves of the right to bring their actions, I do not know. thorities of that town. If it were true that action by Congress had Mr. KIRKWOOD. While I am up, I will call attention to another prevented the prosecution of these claims in court; if it were true provision of this bill. Let me repeat again that I am in total igno­ that by the action of Congress these men had been prevented and rance about this whole thing; I know nothing about it. I heard the kept out of court, then it certainly would be very unjust to allow a rumors about corruption here years ago, and I gave them perhaps as. bar of limitation that bad grown up by reason of that condition of much credit as they were entitled to. It was an era when the ma.k­ things to operate against them. But if, instead of pursuing the or­ ing of charges appeared to be a regularly organized industry in the dinary mode of recovery open to all citizens in all places, the courts country. of the country, they voluntarily stood by and saw that remedy that But I find this provision on page 5, commencing at line 8 of sec­ everybody else had depart away from them; if instead of taking that tion 4: course which is the course that all men have to take in procuring a And povidedfurtlt.er, That in the trial of such cases no person shall be exclu.ded settlement of their claims, by their own neglect, by their own laches, as a witness becau.se he or she is a party to or interested in the same. by their ·preference to submit these things to the investigation of Is that the existing law in the District in all cases. Congress instead of submitting them to a court and jury-if by rea­ Mr. HARRIS. I am inclined to think it is. Is it not the law in son of that a bar has grown up, then I have very serious doubts the Federal courts everywhere Y whether it is wise for us to remove it. Mr. KIRKWOOD. I am not able to say. I supposed from finding_ Mr. INGALLS. Will the Senator allow me one moment i this provision in the bill that.it was changing the existing law, be­ Mr. KIRKWOOD. Certainly. cause if it were not there would be no necessity for it here. It seemed Mr. INGALLS. Take the holders of the certificates amounting to to me a little strange, in addition, that after taking away the bar of $758,000 that have not been funded, what object would they have in the statute of limitations we should then take a.way the right of the going into any court for the purpose of establishing their claim 41 District to be heard before a jury, and then should give to the parties. They have already been fully recognized in the method pointed out a right that they do not have now of testifying in their own behalf by Congress. Congress had passed a law agreeing that the holders when the District cannot testify in its behalf. Whether that is the of these claims should have them funded at a certain period. Con­ law or not I do not know. The Senator from Minnesota [Mr. McMIL­ gress imposed a prohibition upon further funding, leaving this balance LAN] can tell, perhaps. That is all I have to say about the case. outstanding. What should they go into court for¥ What was there Mr. JONES, of Florida. I do not think that is the law in the Court;. to be determined V The amount due was already ascertained. of Claims. I think in the Federal courts, in controversies between Mr. KIRKWOOD. I will try to answer. Just precisely the same citizens of different States, the law is that either party can testify, as would the holder of one of these 3.65 bonds which had become due all objections to his competency being removed, the objections going but the principal and interest of which was unpaid-the amount that to credibility; but I do not think that that rule prevails in the Court is ascertained. It is the non-paymentthatgives the right of action­ of Claims in a suit instituted by a citizen against the Government the non-payment according to the terms of the contra.ct. because the reason of the thing, it can be readily seen, would not ap­ Mr. INGALLS. The Senator does not seem to appreciate that Con­ ply. In the other cases both parties can testify; but in the case of gress took this whole matter in hand. Congress, finding that the the Government there would be a party only on one side competent District authorities were involved beyond their power to adjust and to testify. pay, assumed practically this entire amount of indebtedness, and in­ Mr. KIRKWOOD. I supposed I waa right about that. That leaves asmuch as it could not be liquidated at once by taxation, said it the cases just precisely this way: We are asked to go forward here should be satisfied by the issue of a 3.65 bond in the name of the Dis­ and remove in behalf of these men a bar of the statute of limitations. trict that was to be indorsed by th~ Government, interest and sink­ that has grown up by their own laches. We are asked to trall8fer ing fund payable by the Government. the trial of the cases, that bar being removed, to a court in which a Mr. KIRKWOOD. I understand that. jury cannot be organized. And then we are further asked to give to Mr. INGALLS. What is there to be ascertained 41 What is there these parties a privilege they do not have as against the General Gov­ to go into court about Y Congress has assumed the entire authority ernment to which we seek to assimilate these claims, by giving to over the whole subject. the claimant here a. right to testify in his own behalf when the ad­ Mr. KIRKWOOD. But that did not deprive the men who held versary party cannot testify in its behalf. these certificates of their right of action against the District of Co­ Mr. BUTLER. I confess I am not informed as to that rule of evi­ lumbia in the courts of the District, and if they had brought their dence in the District, but I have just been informed by the Senator actions and had recovered judgments upon them, then the same mode from Louisiana [Mr. JONAS] that in the Federal courts all over the of satisfying those judgments was open to the men in whose favor United States that is the rule of evidence. those judgments had been rendered as would be open to the bolder of Mr. KIRKWOOD. Yes, as between individuals; but the Govern- a judgment against the town in which the Sena.tor lives-a writ of ment does not allow that rule, as I understand, against itself. mandamus from the court to compel payment. Mr. HARRIS. The claim is against a corporation in this case. There is nothing that has been stated thus far to distinguish this Mr. KIRKWOOD. It cannot testify. class of cases from the cases against any city anywhere. Take the Mr. JONAS. The Senator will permit me to suggest that in every city in which I live. A person has made a con tract with it on which suit where a public corporation is a party, where the Government is he claims that a sum of money is due him, and the authorities will not a party, or a State is a party, the opposite party cannot necessarily pay it. That is the substance of what is alleged here. What is the testify in his .own behalf; but in the Federal courts any citizen can remedy'i testify in his own behalf, whether testifying against the interests of Mr. HARRIS. Allow me to ask the Senator a question. If he is a public corporation or not. satisfied that a claim!!int having a just and honest claim against the .Mr. INGALLS. Not only in civil, bat criminal cases also. It is the District of Columbia. has, hoping from year to year that Congress uniform tendency of the law everywhere. would provide means for adjusting it, failed to bring suit when he Mr. KIRKWOOD. Why is this put in here then Y had a right to bring it until the statute has made a bar, is the Sena­ Mr. INGALLS. The bill came here from the House. I do not tor prepared to avail himself of the bar of the statute of limitations know why it was put in. · and turn the man away' Mr. McMILLAN. The rule is I think that the United States courts Mr. KIRKWOOD. That brings up the whole question of the health­ will follow the practice in the State courts in which the United iness or unhealthiness of the doctrine of limitation, and the wisdom States court is held; and if sitting in a State where the parties are of the world for a great many years has held that our limitation laws not permitted. to be witnesses the United States court observes th& are healthy laws. It holds so yet. I will say as readily as any man State practice. 4160 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 4,

Mr. JONES, of Florida. I think there is a special act of Congress just olaim against the District. If they have one, it should be paid;

Mr. HARRIS. Seven hundred and fifty-eight thousand and some and becomes a law the claimant will go into the Court of Claims odd hundred dollars. under it or not at his own election. We give him the right to do so, Mr. ALLISON. Let me see if I understand the character of the and if he declines to do so I am sure that neither I n.or any authority certificates. Are they certificates issued by the board of audit f of the District of Columbia w:ill complain of him for standing out Mr. HARRIS. Regularly issued by the boa.rd of audit, not funded. and allowing the Senator from Minnesota to plead the statute of lim­ Mr. ALLISON. Not funded into 3.65 bonds! itations on him. Mr. HARRIS. Not funded. They had not been funded when the Mr. McMILLAN. Does the Senator claim that Congress can au­ joint resolution of 1876 abolished the board and forbade the further thorize a judgment in any court and then say that it shall be paid in issuance of 3.65 bonds. anything but money Y If he does, then I want to find the constitu­ Mr. McMILLAN. I shall not call for the yeas and nays on this tional authority for a.ny such provision. amendment, but I desire to note my own objection to it, and I ask Mr. HARRIS. The Senator from Minnesota wants to find authority for a vote upon it. for a great many things in respect to this bill for which I have no Mr. COCKRELL. Let the amendment be reported again. disposition to find the authorities for him. Mr. HARRIS. The amendment is a page and a half of manuscript, Mr. McMILLAN. I think the Senator does feel indisposed to fur­ and if the Senator will allow me I can perhaps explain it in less time nish the authority for many provisions in this bill, and I think it than it would take to read the amendment. The amendment simply would be very difficult for him to do it. The question I propose to authorizes the i3suance of 3.65 bonds bearing the same date, the same the Senator is one of law, and is one to which I should be gla.d to rate of interest, payable at the same time and place as the other 3.65 have an answer. bonds, for the purpose of redeeming the outstanding certificates of Mr. HARRIS. The Senator is a member of the committee and has the board of audit. Thirteen and three-quarter million dollars of had all the opportunities that every other member of the committee such certificates have been funded in the 3.65 bonds, and the com­ has ha.d to investigate and satisfy himself about these questions of mittee can see no reason why the $758,000 of outstanding certificates law. I should be very happy to give the fullest information in my shall not also be funded in the same character of bonds. power to any Senator who sought information because he wanted it, Mr. COCKRELL. Then, why was that not reported by the com­ but where he captiously seeks it I have no disposition to give it. mittee, or is this amendment from the committee Y Mr. McMILLAN. I asked for information for myself and for the Mr. HARRIS. This is an amendment of the committee. Senate, and I presumed that the Senator, as the organ of the commit­ ~· Mr. PLATT. We have been told here that when this funding tee, would be prepared to give it. I think the question is rather a ceased the statement was made that some of these claims were fraud­ difficult one for the Senator to answer in the affirmative, and I shall ulent. If they were fraudulent then, there must be fraudulent claims not press it. However, before I take my seat I will offer, as the ~mend- now. I know nothing as to whether the claims are fraudulent or . ments of the committee are through-- not ; but onght there not to be some provision to determine before The PRESIDING OFFICER. They are not disposed of yet. 3.65 bonds are issued for these certificates whether they are open to Mr. McMILLAN. Then I will wait. . that objection Y The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the amendment of Mr. HARRIS. I know of no evidence of any fraud, real or sus­ the Senator from Tennei;.see, [Mr. HARRIS.] pected, in respect to any certificate issued by the board of audit. The amendment was agreed to. The board of audit was composed of the First and Second Comptrol­ Mr. HARRlS. The amendment just agreed to will stn.nd as section lers of the Treasury of the United States. These certificates had the 9 in the bill. approval not only of that board, but of the commissioners and audit­ Mr. ALLISON. In section 6, line 23, I move to strike out all after ing officers of the Di.strict of Columbia. We have already funded the word" payable" down to and including "1874," in line 30, in the thirteen and three-quarter million dollars of these certificates. There following words: are outstanding only $758,000 of them. The question is will you fund And the gross amount of such bonds heretofore and hereafter issued shall not those as you have funded the others, or will you send the holders of exceed in tlie aggregate $15,000,000: P·rovidea, The bonds issued by authority of these certificates into court to readjudicate the matter and reinvesti­ this act shall be of no more binding force, as to their payment, on the Government gate it and redetermine it 'i The committee thought it was not only of the United States than the 3.65 bonds issued under authority of the act of .June wise but just and proper to allow these certificates to be funded. 20, 1874. Mr. PLATT. I never supposed that there was any charge of fraud w: have just adopted an amendment which provides that over which reached the officers of the Treasury, and, indeed, I know very $700,000 of the certificates of the board of audit shall be converted into little about the charge except as Senators have stated here that the 3.65 bonds without further action on the part of the Court of Claims. charge was made at the time the funding was stopped. For one, I The total amount of these bonds I think in round numbers now is think it would be very much better to allow these claims to be adju­ $14,000,000. dicated in the Court of Claims with the other claims which parties Mr. INGALLS. Thirteen millions seven hundred and forty· three have against the Di.s~ict. thousand dollars. Mr. HARRIS. I will state to the Senator from Connecticut, as the Mr. ALLISON. I thank the Senator from Kansas for his accurate Senator may not remember the explanation which I made on the very information. :first amendment I offered, that the certificates of the board of audit Mr. HARRIS. The outstanding bonds at this time amount to were classified among those claims that were to go to the Court of $13,594,900, but the amount of bonds actually issued under the act of Claims in the House bill. The first amendment that I offered was to 1847 is $13,743,250. strike them out of that classification, giving notice to the Senate at Mr. ALLISON. We have provided for their redemption on the as­ that time that I had prepared an amendment authorizing the sinking­ sumption that the amount outstanding is thirteen million and a half fund commissioner, who is the Treasurer of the United States, to fund dollars; of course a portion of them has been redeemed under the those outstanding certificates of the board of audit . by the issue of authority to create a sinking fund. We have just provided for $750,000 3.65 bonds. It is for the Senate to determine whether those certifi­ · more; so that the total amount of these bonds now is $14,250,000. cates shall be funded, or whether the balance of the certificates shall The bill limits the total issue to 15,000,000. Unless I am very much be sent to the Court of Claims. I shall ask the Senate to reconsider mistaken, and I have not had time carefully to examine this bill, I the t'rst amendment that was adopted, striking them from the class think I make a low estimate when I say it will require 3,000,000 to of claims to be sent to the Court of Claims, if the Senate fails to comply with these provisions. adopt this amendment authorizing the funding of the certificates in Mr. HARRIS. If the Senator will allow me, of course I cannot the 3.U[i bonds. It is for the Senate to determine which they will do. assume to be accurate, but the best information that the committee We have already funded $13,750,000, or thereabout. could obtain estimates the outstanding claims at about a million and Mr. COCKRELL. Why were not these funded Y a quarter ol dollars. Mr. HARRIS. Because before they could be funded the joint res­ Mr.ALLISON. Verywell. I remember when the joint committee olution of 1876 abolished the board of audit and prohibited the further of the two Houses made the investigation in 1874 of which the dis­ issue of 3.65 bonds. That is the reason why they could not be funded. tinguished Senator from Ohio [Mr. THU~] was primal chief we Mr. McMILLAN. May I ask the Sena.tor from Tennessee, in order were told that all the claims that could possibly be funded into 3.65 to avoid the consumption of time in reading the amendment, whether bonds wou).d be about $8,000,000, or, perhaps, $9,000,000. the amendment requires the claimants obtaining judgment to receive Mr. THURMAN. That is my recollection, between eight and nine payment of their judgments in 3.6~ bonds, whether it is compulsory millions. in that view T Mr. ALLISON. These claims were referred to the board of audit; Mr. HARRIS. I did not catch the question of the Senator. they amounted to thirteen millions and more, and a vast number of Mr. McMILLAN. I ask whether the amendment now proposed claims are still pending, a.a we all know, with reference to these old compels by its terms the claimant.a obtaining judgment in the Court questions arising out of contracts. of Claims to receive these bonds in payment of their judgments J Mr. HARRIS. I have no objection to striking out the Hmit; I think Mr. HARRIS. The bill requires that every judgment rendered by it perhaps proper to do so; but I do not think the claims.will ex­ the Court of Claims under the authority given by the bill shall be .ceed it. paid in 3.65 bonds. Mr. ALLISON. I think it is not only proper that we should do so, Mr. McMILLAN. I should like, then, to ask the Senator by what but I think it essential that we should do so, because this proceeding authority Congress can pass a law of that kind, requiring a suitor in is based upon the idea that the persons who have claims against the one of the courts to take pay for a judgment in money in the bonds government of the District of Columbia shall stand in no better re- of the United States 'I lation to the District than those who had their claims audited in 187 4 Mr. HARRIS. My answer to the Senator is, that if this bill passes . and received 3.65 bonds when those bonds were only worth sixty-five 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4163 cents on the dollar, and they have now advanced to the value of committee, the Senator from Iowa, and by others. What was that ninety-four or ninety-five cents on the dollar. If judgments are ren­ reason! It was because the board of public works had, as the testi­ dered against the District of Columbia these people ought to be re­ mony before that committee abundantly showed, allowed 20 per cent. quired to receive their pay in these 3.65 bonds, but if we limit the in addition to the fair cash value of the work to be done because of amount of the issue o .65 bonds all those who cannot take them the medium of payment that the contractors would be compelled to under the limit of 15,000,000 will at once present their claims here receive. There were all sorts of paper certificates issued by the Dis­ for payment in money, as we pay the judgments of the Court of trict territorial government before it was abolished by the act of Claims in money. So much, then, for striking out the limitation of 1874, and those certificates-yellow, red, green, blue-were at such the total issue to $15,000,000, to which I understand the Senator from a discount that the board of public works, in letting its contracts, Tennessee to agree. allowed 20 per cent. additional because of the depreciated currency, Mr. HARRIS. I have no objection to it, sir. if yon can call it currency, or evidences of indebtedness in which Mr. .ALLISON. Now, a word in regard to the proviso which I pro­ contractors would be paid. That is the reason why they were com­ pose to strike from the bill. Why is it that in every bill that comes pelled to take the 3.65 bonds. here having reference to these 3.65 bonds there must be cast over That committee did not suppose that the 3.65 bonds would be at them a shadow and a shade looking to their repudiation or an inter­ par at once, but they said it was not unfair to those contractors who ference in some manner by legislation hereafter f The Government had received 20 per cent. more than the fair cash value of the work of the United States under the law of 1874 is pledged absoluteJy, its they were to do to provide that they should be paid in 3.65 bonds if faith is pledged, that either by appropriations or by taxation imposed they saw fit to take them. They were not required to take them; the by Congress upon the property of this District the interest upon these option waa given to them to take them or to bring suit against the bonds shall be paid and a sinking fund .shall be created for the pay­ District and recover judgments, and get their money when they could. ment of the principal at maturity. We find a proviso here endeavor­ The reason which induced that committee to recommend to Congress ing to cast a shadow upon these bonds which may have been issued and which induced Congress to pMs the bill giving to the contractors and the bonds to be hereafter issued. The bill provides that these the option to take 3.65 bonds or to sue the District, recover judg­ bonds shall be issued under the act of 1874, whatever that act is, and ments, and obtain satisfaction when they could, has no existence let it stand in that way without the proviso. The proviso adds noth­ whatever in reference to contracts made since the passage of the act ing to, and takes nothing from it in fact, except to cast some shade of 1874. Since the passage of that act there has been no expectation upon the validity of these bonds. If they are to be paid, and if we on the part of any contrarctor that he was to receive payment in de­ are to issue more of them so that the amount may reach to $20,000,000, preciated evidences of debt. as it probably will, inasmuch as the Government of the United States Therefore, Mr. President, there is no reason for saying, as I under­ is pledged to pay the interest upon them and to provide a sinking stand this bill to say, if I have not been mistaken in my cursory read­ fund for the payment of the principal, let us not ca.at a shadow over ing of it, in positive and mandatory language that the payment of them. Therefore I move to strike out the words I have indicated. contracts made, for instance, in the year 1880, shall be in 3.65 bonds The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the amendment instead of in money. I do not see how you can do it. I do not see of the Senator from Iowa. how you can compel a man to take payment in 3.65 bonds if he has Mr. THURMAN. Let it be reported. a valid claim against the District, nor do I quite understand, although The Chief Clerk read the amendment of Mr. ALLISON. it may be right, (I do not say that it is wrong,) why it is that the Mr. THURMAN. I suppose that the object of my friend from Iowa Court of Claims is to have exclusive jurisdiction of all these various in removing the limitation of 15,000,00U is to make any judgments claims agajnst the District. that may be recovered payable in 3.65 bonds. Mr. HARRIS. Will the Senator from Ohio allow me to call his Mr. ALLISON. That is what the bill provides. attention to the language of the section T If he will look at it crit­ Mr. THURMAN. Where does the bill provide that Y ically he will find that the section he is criticising provides for giv­ Mr . .ALLISON. The bill provides in section 6 that- ing the Court of Claims jurisdiction of claims based on contra-cts The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized to demand of the sinking. made by the board of public works and extensions of those contracts fund commissioner of the District of Columbia. so many of the 3.65 bonds author· made by the District of Columbia. ized by act of Congress approved .June 20, 1874, and acts &IDJlndatory thereof, as Mr. THURMAN. It goes beyond that, undoubtedly. may be necessary for the payment of the judgments ; and said sinking.fund com· missioner is hereby directed to issue and deliver to the Secretary of the Treasury Mr. .ALLISON. It goes clearly beyond that. the amount of 3.65 bonds required to satisfy the judgments; which bonds shall be Mr. THURMAN. The language is: received by said claimants at par in payment of such judgments, and shall bear All claims now existing against the District of Columbia arising out of contra-Ots date, &c. made by the late board of public works- Mr. McMILLAN. That is the provision about which I inquired as That iR clear enough- to its constitutionality. and extensions thereof made by the commissioners of the District of Columbia. Mr. THURMAN. I have not been in the Senate since the consid­ That we all understand perfectly well, because in the act of 1874 eration of this bill was commenced, and I ought to be rather diffident there was a provision for carrying out contracts that were already about speaking upon it, because I had not read it until within the made and which were valid contracts and which had not been com­ last few minutes, and I have not completed the reading of it yet; but pletely executed. That is covered by the provision "extensions there is one difficulty in my mind about voting for the amendment thereof made by the commissioners of the District of Columbia; " offered by the Senator from Iowa; in fact, there is a difficulty I find but then comes this sweeping clause, coming down to this very date: as far as I have read in this whole bill. In the first place, in the first And such claims as have arisen out of contracts made by the District com.mis, section it provides : · sioners since the passage of the act of .June 20, 1874. That the Jurisdiction of the Court of Claims is hereby extended to, and it shall That includes contracts made upon this very day upon which I am have exclusive- . speaking. Mark that word, "exclusive"- Mr. President, I am not prepared to give advice upon this bill now, original, legal, and equitable jurisdiction of, all claims now existing against the although this subject is one that I was once very familiar with, and District of Columbia., arising out of contracts made by the late board of public upon which I performed more labor than I hope ever to be required works, and extensions thereof made by the commissioners of·the District of Co. to perform again. The Senat.or from Iowa is perfectly correct ; there lumbia, and such claims as have arisen out of contracts made by the Dil!trict com· never was either through mistake, or design, such an imposition prac­ missioners since the passage of the act of .June 20, 1874; and all certificates of the auditor of said board of public works, all certificates issued. by the board of audit, ticed upon a committee in the world as was practiced upon us. W & all certificates issued by the auditor and comptroller of the District of Columbia., had the official statements that the claims that would be converted into all sewer certificates, all sewer taxes not heretofore converted into 3.65 bonds, all 3.65 bonds would not rea-ch $9,000,000. They have reached $13,000,000, measurements made by the engineers of said District of work done under con.tracts ! made since February 21, 1871, for which no certificates have been issued to and re­ and now we are to have a further extension We thought we guarded: ceived by the contractor or his assignee, all claims based upon contracts made by that law as well as it could possibly bo guarded against the comple­ the board of public works for which no evidence of indebtedness has been issued. tion of any illegal contracts. We put in words that, ·in my judg­ The first thing to which I wish to call the attention of the Senate ment, are as significant and clear and precise as any words in th& is, that if this amendment has been adopted, and I inquire if it has English language to prevent the extension or continuance of illegal been-- contracts. How we have been disappointed this bill shows. Mr. McMILLAN. All the amendments of the committee have been Mr. President, I do not wish to discuss a bill, much less to criticis& adopted. a bill with which I am so little familiar as I am with this bill and Mr. THURMAN. Then it applies to all claims that have arisen out which has received the sanction of the House of Representatives and of contracts made by the District commissioners since the passage of the sanction of the very able Committee on the District of Columbia the act of June 20, 1874. of this body, but I would like to look into it further, and I therefore The investigating committee, of which the Senator from Iowa was move that the Senate proceed to the consideration of executive bus­ chairman and I was a member, and which sat for two or three months, iness. and sat during the sessions of the Senate daily, and performed one The motion was agreed to. of the most disagreeable and onerous duties that has ever devolved WILLIAM W. BREWER. on me, reported in favor of paying claimants or giving them the op­ Mr. BAILEY. Before the doors are closed, I ask that House bill tion-that is what it was-of receiving payment of tbeir claims in No. 5053 be taken up and passed. It will have to go back to the House 3.65 bonds. The reason for that was stated, I think, in the report of for action on an amendment. It is recommended by the Committee the committee. It certainly was stated again and again in the de­ on Finance, and I ask that it betaken up and a-cted on. ltis simply bate on that bill; it was very clearly stated by the chairman of that the case of a lost check, the bill directing the issue of another upon 4164 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JUNE 4;

the execution of a bond in accordance with the usual form. The use of the State Guards, to enable them to participate in the centen­ chairman of the committee has the bill in his hand. It is order of nial celebration at King's Mountain in October next, was taken from business No. 545. the Speaker's table and read a first and second time. By unanimous consent, the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, The joint resolution, which was read, authorizes the Secretary of proceeded to consider the bill (H. R. No. 5053) granting relief to Will­ War, upon the request of the governor of Ntsth Carolina, to furnish iam Turman, guardian of William W. Brewer. It proposes to direct to the State Guards of North Carolina one 'hundred and twenty A the Secretary of the Interior to issue a duplicate of checkNo.144989, tents and twenty-five wall tents, with the necessary poles and pins, drawn by D. T. Boynton, pension· agent, dated October 13, 1879, for if so many can be spared from the service, provided the same be 1,646.83, in favor of William Tarman, guardian of William W. Brewer, taken without expense to the Government, to enable the said State the check having been lost in the mails. Guards to attend and participate in the centennial celebration of the The bill was reported from the Committee on Finance with an battle of King's Mountain in October, 1880, provided the governor amendment to add the following proviso: of said State shall receipt for and return the same at the close of Provided, Tha.t said William Turman shall first execute a bond with good and said celebration. sufficient security, to be approved by the Secretary of the Treasury, to hold the The joint resolution was ordered to a third reading; and it was United States ha.Tinless against the double payment of said check. accordingly read the third time, and passed. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. SCALES moved to reconsider the vote by which the joint res­ The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the amend­ olution was passed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be ment wa~ concurred in. laid on the table. The amendment was ordered to be engrossed, and the bill to be The latter motion was agreed to. read a third time. SOLDIERS' l\IONUME~T, MARIETTA, omo. The bill was read the third time, and passed. On motion of Mr. WARNER, by unanimous consent, the Senate EXECUTIVE SESSION. amendments to the bill (H. R. No. 3347) to authorize the Secretary of The Senate proceeded to the consideration of executive business. War to furnish four pieces of condemned ordnance for the soldiers' .After six minutes spent in executive session, the doors were reopened; monument at Marietta, Ohio, were taken from the Speaker's table .and (at seven o'clock p. m.) the Senate adjourned. and read, as follows: .After the word" of," where it occurs the second time in said bill, insert" cast­ iron; " and amend the title so as to read: "AD act to authorize the Secretary of War to furnish four pieces of cast-iron condemned ordnance for the soldiers' mon­ ument at Marietta, Ohio." HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Mr. WARNER. I move to concur in those amendments of the Senate. FRIDAY, Jwne 4, 1880. The amendments were concurred in. The House met at eleven o'clock a. m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. Mr. WARNER moved to reconsider the vote by which the amend­ W.P.liARRisoN,D.D. ments were concurred in; and also moved that the motion to recon­ The Journal of yesterday was read and approved. sider be laid on the table. ~he latter motion was agreed to. SOLDIERS' REUNION, DECATUR, ILLINOIS. MONUMENT TO GENERAL MEADE. Mr. CANNON, of Illinois, by unanimous consent, introduced a joint Tesolution (H. R. No. 316) authoi:izing the Secretary of War to de­ On motion of Mr. JOHNSTON, by unanimous consent, the amend­ liver arms, artillery, and tents to the soldiers' reunion at Decatur, ments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. No. 2440) to authorize the Sec­ Illinois ; which was read a first and second time. retary of War to t,.-ansfer to Fairmount Park Art Association thirty The joint resolution, which was read, authorizes the Secretary of condemned or captured bronze cannon to be used in the erection of War to send for use at the soldiers' reunion at Decatur, Illinois, one an equestrian statue to the late Major-General George Gordon Meade light battery and equipments, six hundred stand of arms and accouter­ were taken from the Speaker's table and read, as follows : ments, and :fi.ve hundred tents, if not incompatible with public inter­ In line 4, strike out the word "captured," and amend the title by striking out est, to be used at a reunion of the soldiers of Illinois to be held at the word "captured." Decatur, Illinois, during the fall of 1880, the Secretary of War first Mr. JOHNSTON. I move to concur in the amendments of the · taking a suitable bond for the return of said artillery, arms, and tents, Senate. free of cost to the Government, in as good ord'er as when received, The SPEAKER. Perhaps it will make no difference, but the word ordinary wear and tear excepted ; also that he deliver for use of said "or" should go out with the word" captured." It means, of course, light battery during said reunion blank cartridges at the actual cost condemned bronze cannon; but as it now stands, with the Senate of the same. amendment, it reads" condemned or bronze cannon.'' Any amend­ The joint resolution was ordered to be engrossed and read a third ment in the House would necessitate the bill going back to the Sen­ time ; and being engrossed, it was accordingly read the third time, ate, however. and passed. Mr. JOHNSTON. The word "or" undoubtedly should go out with Mr. CANNON, of Illinois, moved to reconsider the vote by which the word "captured." the joint resolution was passed ; and also moved that the motion to Mr. VOORHIS. I move, then, to strike out the word "or." reconsider be laid on the table. Mr. SPARKS. There is no doubt about it. The latter motion was agreed to. Mr. ROBESON. I do not think we have any bronze cannon except those which are condemned. CONDEMNED CANNON FOR MONUMENTS. Mr. BRAGG. We have not any which are condemned. The SPEAKER. The Chair desires to state there is great pressure Mr. ROBESON. We have not any bronze cannon in use. for recognition in reference to bills of a like character, and also in M.r. SPARKS. The word ''or" should be stricken out. reference to the donation of condemned cannon for the erection of Mr. BRAGG. The Senate struck out the word "captured" to com­ monuments to distinguished citizens of the country. If the House pel them to take condemned cannon instead of serviceable guns. will give its consent the Chair wil~ recognize gentlemen having such The SPEAKER. It is undoubtedly a clerical error; buttheHouse bills in charge. might correct it, and any amendment in the Honse will send the bill Mr. SCALES. I hope that will be done. back to the Senate. What is the wish of the gentleman from Vir­ The SPEAKER. The Chair hears no objection, and gentlemen hav­ ginia Y ing such bills will be recognized by the Chair in their order. Mr. SPARKS. If the language is allowed to stand as it is it would Mr. ROBINSON. I wish to say in regard to bills donating con­ grant any cannon, condemned cannon or bronze cannon. ·demned cannon, this unanimous consent does not apply to that class Mr. JOHNSTON. I move to concur in the Senate amendments. lately sent to the Committee on Military Affairs. Mr. MCMILLIN. I wish to make an inquiry whether the effect of The SPEAKER. The Chair is not able to answer in reference to the bill will not be to authorize the turning over of bronze cannon, that point. whether condemned or uncondemned 7 Mr. ROBINSON. During the absence of the Speaker from the The SPEAKER. It seems so. House and after consideration the whole matter was recommitted to Mr. McMILLIN. I ask for a division, then, on the vote just taken the Committee on Military Affairs. agreeing to those amendments of the Senate. We are about to give The SPEAKER. That bill is not in the House. efficient cannon for monument purposes. We ought to restrict the Mr. SPARKS. That bill bas not yet been reported back to the donation to condemned cannon. Such has been the practice hereto­ House. fore and I do not think we should depart from it. I hope the gentle­ The SPEAKER. It can only be reached, then, by unanimous con­ man in charge of the bill will consent to such an amendment. sent, discharging that committee from its further consideration. Mr. JOHNSTON. I move, then, Mr. Speaker, to concur in the Sen­ Mr. SPARKS. It was recommitted to the committee with amend­ ate amendments, with an amendment striking out the word "or" in ments. the body of the bill and in the title. KING'S MOUNTAIN CENTENNIAL CELEBRATION. Mr. McMILLIN. That will have the effect to restrict it. On motion of Mr. SCALES, by unanimous consent, Senate joint The amendment was agreed to; and then the Senate amendments, resolution No.117, authorizing the Secretary of War todelivertothe as amended, were concurred in. governor of North Carolina one hundred and forty-five tents for the Mr. JOHNSTON moved to reconsider the vote by which the amend-