Soviet Jewish Oral History Project Western Reserve Historical Society Interviewee: Konstantin Pavolotsky Interviewer: Whitney Stalnaker Date of interview: July 2, 2015 Location of interview: 6028 Mayfield Rd #8, Mayfield Heights, OH

Whitney Stalnaker: Today is July 2, 2015. My name is Whitney Stalnaker. I’m here with Konstantin Pavolotsky. We are here in his office at Mayfield Heights. First of all I do want to thank you again for agreeing to meet with me. First we’re going to start with a pretty easy question, could you just introduce yourself?

Konstantin Pavolotsky: Konstantin Pavolotsky. General things I work in Mayfield Heights, I reside in Cleveland since 1996 and in the United States since 1990.

WS: Okay great. Can you tell me a little bit about your family here?

KP: I have a wife, Larisa, and my son Felix. He is 28 years old. He is a Kent State University student.

WS: Wonderful. Does your wife work here or…?

KP: Yeah she works with me. She is the manager for the office. She is an accountant by education. She works with me since I was opening my practice.

WS: Where did you go to school?

KP: I graduated from dental school. It was a dental school in Moscow, which was then the capital of the Soviet Union. I graduated in 1986. In the United States I graduated dental school from Indiana University School of dentistry class of 1995.

WS: I would like to talk a little bit about your life pre-immigration. Could you describe what your life was like before you decided to immigrate?

KP: After I graduated dental school in 86’ I had a residency in Rostov which is a city on the river Don in the South of Russia for one year. My son was born by the way in this place. After one year of residency I moved to Odessa. In Odessa I worked in a government dental office. It was a government dental office because there was no private dentistry at the time in the former Soviet Union. We decided to move. We had thought about it pretty much since graduation of dental school. My wife supported me one hundred percent. We fulfilled our dream in 89 when we left Soviet Union in November.

WS: You said that you thought about it right around graduation. Had this been

1 something you had thought about in the years prior to that as well?

KP: Yes. You know it was several influence. Several sources, you know. First of all it was tough to say, but you always have this thing on your mind. You think it’s not achievable, but you always work towards it. One of them was to move to the States. My hometown of Odessa is pretty much multicultural. It is not uniform like whole Soviet Union. So we had some source of information from people who immigrated before, because Odessa is a very famous city for immigration. Thousands of people immigrated in the 1870- something. [Interview Interrupted] Because we have some idea about how some people doing, because even part of my family immigrated in 1927, so we have not much connection, it was pretty much lost after Second World War. But, we have some ideas and some relatives in the United States and they are doing fine. In my family, my grandfather listened to lots of Western Radio from America. Its influence was [helping me to] understanding what was going on in my home country. There were several sources; it was several bricks that built my wish to move. I knew for a long time, much earlier than graduation from dental school. Only after Gorbachev came into power in Soviet Union in 1985 did we realize it could be technically possible. Before it was not easy and we were too young. Our family situation with our parents, my mother died when I was 10 years old and my father was married second time. I could not convince my family to move together. We decided finally that we’re going to do it alone, me, my wife, and my son who was three years old when we came to the States. What made us come was family history, information about west, realization of the bleak… let’s say we don’t see any future to stay live our home country. We realized with our skills, with our knowledge, and our profession we cannot fulfil ourselves in the country. Lots of influence from our nationality too, you know Jews doesn’t have the same opportunities, even when I graduated dental school I knew that it was only 5% of Jews were allowed to be accepted to dental school officially and I was very lucky to be accepted. Even when I graduated, I realized I could fulfil myself much much more working in another country. I did not feel sorry for a single second for my decision.

WS: You mentioned that it was kind of difficult to obtain opportunities being of the Jewish faith. Did you feel connected to your Jewish faith growing up?

KP: Religiously not as much. But, my family, for example, my grandmother and grandfather celebrated Jewish holidays. They speak to each other only in Yiddish. With other people they spoke Russian. Between them and with my father they spoke only in Yiddish. Maybe some of the reason was they don’t want to hear, or they don’t need to hear what’s going on in their conversations. But, because I studied German in school as a foreign language I started to understand what they were talking about. But, I remember from childhood we always celebrated Jewish holidays at home. Thanks to my grandfather and grandmother because my father was not involved as much. We would celebrate together, but not in our apartment (but in Grandfather and Grandmother’s apartment). Though we would have the matzos as food at home. My Jewish identity was formed grossly by both my grandmother and grandfather who always tried to explain me

2 or bring me the realities that I am a Jew. But, my grandfather and grandmother did not attend, for example, temple. In Odessa there was one little synagogue. But they send me, and I remember going with him to buy matzos and I talked to the Rabbi. But I did not attempt to join temple as a member. Because it was not really… I don’t say it was illegal, you can do it. But, you can have a lot of problems if they know you go to temple on a regular basis. That’s why there were not as many young people in attendance, but when I went to Moscow for dental school I go to Moscow synagogue several times during the holidays. There were tons of people and it was really feeling of the holiday, and happiness around. I’ll never forget that. That was between 81 and 86 when I was a dental student. It was a different environment because the temple was located in the center of Moscow and thousands of people came to celebrate. It made me understand more about being a Jew than I knew in Odessa. But, in Odessa it was a different story. There was a large Jewish population there. There all my friends were Jews. My wife is a Jew. We pretty much wanted to be with each other. Even when it isn’t religious and how you should be a Jew. There is a difference between religion and nationality. You can be a Jew, but it doesn’t mean you need to go to temple. You don’t need to celebrate holidays of the United States and Israel. You realize you are a Jew, you are different. Plus, thanks to the government and the people around you, they maintain this feeling pretty strong. This feeling of being different, unfortunately. I talk about anti-Semitism at the government level and the anti-Semitism at the basic level which is very strong. I will remember this for a long time. And all together I think this answers what you asked me.

WS: Absolutely. So did the government’s anti-Semitism play a role in your wish to ultimately…

KP: A lot. I realized even with changes in the Soviet government we cannot predict if Ukraine can be different. I am originally from Ukraine because Odessa is in Ukraine, not in Russia. We realized this deep feeling of dislike for the Jews; unfortunately, it is constant in the country after years to come. Even officially, for example, in Russia or Ukraine anti-Semitism does not exist, and I don’t think in a basic way it will continue to blossom. That’s why again our prediction was pretty much right. Officially it is not there, but unofficially it is pretty strong and I don’t think it is going to change until all Jews will leave the country, which I personally think will happen.

WS: Right, right. Because of this did you or family experience, you mentioned how difficult it was to get into dental school. Did you and your family experience additional difficulties growing up, due to this?

KP: I can say it was difficult in a global level. For example, there were different episodes when you’re going around you can create a whole picture. In my family my mother was a medical doctor and she wanted to defend her thesis. They take lots of effort in order to do it because she needed to do it not from Odessa, she was going to move somewhere to some small place in Russia where she was allowed to defend her thesis and have her PhD and medical doctor at the same time. It took lots of work and knowledge to do it. I

3 think her disease, she died of cancer of the stomach at 37 years old, I blame it significantly on her difficulties in her education. My grandfather was a professor in medical school. During an anti-Semitic campaign when all Jews were pretty much kicked out of dental school in Odessa as teachers he needed to move to end of Russia, you know far far into the East. Odessa is in the east of Ukraine. It is an eleven hour flight to the city of Vladivostok, which is near Japan. If you see the map you see that he needed to completely move out of town. In America it is free. You can be accepted, you are free to move. He must move from Odessa because he was kicked out of medical school as a teaching professor. My uncle moved to him. His wife stayed in Odessa and he moved to different part of country which is really big distance in order to continue to be teaching in medical school. My uncle, my mother’s brother moved with him. It’s pretty strong episode. My uncle was not accepted to dental school in Odessa because he was a Jew. All the local governments said nobody who is a Jew will be accepted into medical and dental school. It was zero. It’s pretty much why I was only accepted in Moscow. In Odessa I had no way to do it. My first time I applied to medical school was city of Tashkent, which is the capital of Uzbekistan, really far from civilization. To be accepted as a Jew, I was not accepted. I was explained it was because of the reason my nationality not my knowledge and my skills. You can only apply at one school at one time. It is not like in States where you can apply to several schools at the same time. Literally, one year I needed to work in a factory as a labor worker in order to wait for one more chance to be accepted. Because if I will fail a second time I needed to go into the [military] service. One more episode from when I was seven year old. My mother wanted my sister and I to change our last name. Originally my last name was Yittelmacher [sp], not Pavolotsky. Now Yittelmacher was the last name of my father. My mother she was sick and she realized she will lose her battle with cancer and she convinced my father to switch my last name from Yittelmacher to Pavolotsky because it doesn’t sound too Jewish. It’s exactly what she said. [Unintelligible] But, I was seven or eight, maybe nine years old and my mother died when I was ten. Obviously at that time it was tough to explain what was going on. I remember this conversation very clearly because it was something about my classmates and they make fun of me because all of a sudden I switched my last name. But mother, I cannot say it was her last wish. But, at the same time, I consider how it is. She wanted me to switch last names from my father. And I switched my last name from Yittelmacher to Pavolotsky. I have a relative in the United States with the last name Yittelman. They cut the last name because it was too long. If you take episodes from each of us all around pretty much you understand what is going on. If it’s major, yeah I think it’s major. Nobody wasn’t breathing, nobody was refusnik or dissident or fighter with Soviet government. We did not do mental cleaning, there was nothing like that. There was not active resistance to Soviet system. We really felt discrimination. It is how I see it. I’m not talking about the war or even the time before that. If you for example asked me about my wife’s family, her grandfather was killed in 1937 by the KGB, because they blame him as a German spy. In reality he was director of little German school and he knew German language simply because he knew Yiddish, because Yiddish and German are very close. They blame him as a spy. Why? Because he speak Hebrew and German and they kill him in 1937. His wife left with four kids and they were killed by

4 Germans at the beginning of the Second World War in Ukraine. Ukraine collaborators did it. Only my mother in law survived because she was sent to Odessa to their relatives for summer break. Because of that she survived and the whole family was killed because they were Jews not because they were Soviet citizens. But it is a war, but we are talking about peace time. Each of our family members experience was I think pretty negative. I think it is a religious nationality whatever you call it.

WS: Because of these experiences, or because some other reason did you have any other family members besides yourself who really had such a strong desire to immigrate?

KP: Oh yeah everybody really wanted to go. Everybody knew. My sister lives in Indianapolis, Indiana, and she is a dental hygienist. She immigrated two years after me, it was 92’ and she moved with her husband and the family settled at Indianapolis in Indiana. Where we settled there originally. Our sponsor was Jewish Federation of Indianapolis. That’s why we settled there. They accepted us as a sponsor and that’s how we came to the United States. Because we didn’t know our relatives in the United States. The American relatives they get together much later. At the beginning I didn’t know. I knew they exist but I didn’t know where. [Unintelligible]I don’t have a relationship with them. At the beginning I was settled there. My sister came and parents of my wife, both came to States. They came pretty much at the same time, ‘92 or ’93 they came to America. My father in law is still alive to today and is in Cleveland, but my mother in law unfortunately died five years ago. But, thanks to States they extend her life because she has a big heart problem. Thanks to surgery that was performed here in Cleveland she survived ten more years of her life. [Unintelligible]

WS: When you did immigrate, could you describe your experience?

KP: It was pretty much big culture shock because we were settled in Indianapolis which didn’t have any big Russian speaking community there. We settled in a very nice apartment in a very nice place in Indianapolis. In the beginning it was sort of slow time because were assigned a volunteer by the Jewish Federation. For some reason they didn’t connect with us for approximately two weeks. Literally, we spent two weeks in the apartment alone, me and my wife and my son. You know first couple of days we kind of relaxed after trip, because we go from Europe time like… You know, but after that [Telephone rings] it was a little bit lonely because nobody calls us, nobody came to bring us an idea of what’s going on. I go to the Federation and they found me the paper. There was some mash up. Finally the volunteer came and we started to talk because we didn’t speak English very well at the beginning. I didn’t study English at all I studied German. My wife had a couple of words. It was a little bit rough. We were fine with food because they bought us food. It was a furnished apartment. It was nice, two bedroom, much better than home. One bedroom apartment for five people in Odessa and it was pretty tight. We really enjoyed the freedom of our living space. But, it was pretty interesting time. I cannot say it was a difficult time because we don’t need money at that time you

5 know because they helped us financially and they rented an apartment for us. The first few weeks were rough because there was no communication. Since we were assigned to the college and we started to study English and moved a little bit.

WS: Prior to your arrival in the States you mentioned that you made the definite decision to immigrate and then ultimately started the process. Did it seem like it took a long time to get the permission?

KP: Of course we needed to have invitation to move. Because when you want to move to the United States at that time it was not official agreement between the Soviet Union and the United States. All immigration coming through Israel, let’s say that. In order to get permission to leave Soviet Union you must have an invitation from Israel in order to move from Soviet Union. During this process you must deny your citizenship. Wise people who came to United States got status of refugee from US immigration service. We were people without passport because we don’t have any citizenship. The Soviet government denied our citizenship from us. They took it out. We even pay for it, they have a special tax for it. In order to do that you need to get an invitation from Israel, I got invitation thanks to my aunt. She lives in Cleveland even until today in Lyndhurst. She helped us to get this invitation. This invitation I think they were made just from Jewish Federation. They were mailed from Israel because they cannot mail from States. As soon as you get this invitation you need to go to local, let’s say, immigration office in Odessa at which you need to apply with lots of papers. Bring lots of papers with you. In order to apply for permission to leave the Soviet Union, we applied for it somewhere in June in ‘89. How soon we get permission it was approximately three and a half months. I don’t think it was a problem. Because you know we’re not working in any secret lab and not in a military factory. Nothing like that, it was two young people with a kid. At that time under Gorbachev rule they do not give people a hard time to leave. If you want to leave it only took papers and only time. It take a while because simply, In Odessa it was lots of people who want to leave. There were no computers at that time, nothing like that, it was manually. We got permission somewhere in September, end of September 89. Before you want to leave you must go to Moscow in order to get stamps from two embassies. No three, one of them, number one, was not the embassy at that time, but it was the consulate of Israel on the premises of the Embassy of Netherlands. Second stamp you need to get in the Embassy of Czechoslovakia, because our trip was from Odessa through Bratislava. Bratislava to Austria, so third stamp needs to be done in Embassy of Austria, because you need to go through two countries, Austria and Czechoslovakia. I got all the stamps and they were all put on visa. It’s a leaving visa not an entry visa. Down by Odessa immigration service there was just one I.D. [unintelligible]. I just stopped to explain it, just three little pieces of paper. Only by signature of Odessa immigration service, that’s what you need. [Unintelligible] You need to have some stamps before you actually leave. We left our country on a bus. We drive from Odessa to Western border of Ukraine city of Uzhhorod. We crossed from Uzhhorod to Bratislava in Czechoslovakia. Then from there we take train to Vienna. Vienna was settled for two weeks approximately, when we have our first interview in US

6 immigration. Before that, was Israeli immigration because we declared our wish to go not to Israel, but to the United States. That was how the system worked at that time. There was this Jewish immigration service, there we declare and we write applications that we will move to United States not to Israel. I really wanted to go to United States. In Israel I have no friends no relatives no nobody. In America at that time some of my friends have already immigrated, which is pretty much why I wanted it even more. We apply for US visa. We stayed in Vienna for two weeks. After two weeks in December ‘89 we left Odessa, we left Odessa November 17th. On December 13th we already move to Vienna. It was not only us; there were hundreds, thousands of people at the same time. Then we moved to Italy. In Italy we live for approximately five months before we get entry to the United States. The reason why it was so long because it was peak of immigration at that time, immigration rules changed exactly when we left country. Lucky for us, because it was straight agreement between US and Soviet government that you don’t need to move any more into Europe, you can apply for a US visa while living in the former Soviet Union and you can directly go to the States. But at that time, because the changing of the rules it was a big amount of Russian speaking immigrants, there were approximately more than twenty five thousand in Italy. It was lots of people there. It takes long in order to get appointments with American consulate in Rome, because we need to go through interview, we need to go through medical exams, including x-rays, everything. All three of us needed it, me, my son, my wife. And because of so many people it takes for a while, that’s why we were stuck in Italy for so long. We came on December 13th and we left on April 4th. That was the date we left Italy. In Italy we don’t have any papers besides again the same visa. We didn’t have any papers from Italian government. The whole system was building so that most immigration comes through Italy. That’s where people got permission to move to United States. From Austria you could move to Israel if you wanted. But if you want to go to the United States or Canada or Australia, you need to go to Italy and your immigration procedure… I cannot complain because Italy is a great country, but lots of people live together and we could not afford a decent apartment there. We shared apartment, it was several families, from that standpoint it was tough. But that’s why it takes a while; the whole immigration procedure takes for a while. But, I don’t think it was artificially extended. At that time we knew it was some difficulty with finance from US congress in order to transfer us from Italy to the United States, so some people were stuck there for a while because of financial difficulties. They think it’s Lautenberg, a congressman from New Jersey who died recently unfortunately, who on the floor voting in order to provide additional finance to move us as fast as possible. It was under pressure from Italy because Italy hosted soccer championship in 1990 and they asked American government to bring as much as fast people to States without delay. Lautenberg pushed through congress the advanced money, and that’s how the machine started to work faster. At that time in April lots of people moved to the States. I remember it very clearly, I remember we lived in a small Italian city with tons of Russian immigrants and you see it shrinking. I remember it was exactly end of March beginning of April.

WS: Could you talk a little more about your time in Italy? First of all was it a longer

7 stay…?

KP: It was longer than we expected. For example, our friends who live in Cleveland now who were very close, they were in Italy for a month and a half. They were approximately our age with the same age of kid. We knew that, usually it’s faster. They left Odessa much earlier than we did. They went during summer time in Italy. We went during winter time. It was three families who shared a two bedroom apartment. We lived very close to the sea so it was perfect for summer. But during the winter it was a little cold because all the Italian apartments are made from like [unintelligible]. You know, it’s not carpeted. It’s all ceramic. If you drop something, if you drop [unintelligible] on the floor forget about it, it’s broken. Sometimes it was so cold and windy. Not so cold as it is in Cleveland, but windy, let’s say that. During that time I work as a cleaner of windows. I clean windows in bars and restaurants and bars. Because I did pretty good job from my standpoint they even start to allow me to clean their basements. I’m talking about businesses. One store was a cheese store. One of my partners was a professor of mathematics. He’s now a professor at William and Mary university. In the math department, one of the best in the world by the way, he was a professor of mathematics and I was a dentist. It was a pretty good couple for cleaning. Even before our leaving of Italy we even got a referral to clean apartments from private citizens after remodelling. In Italy people who do remodelling do not clean junk after they are finished. They hired other people, and we helped a couple of families by clean out their apartments. They were very surprised when we tell them he was mathematician and I was dentist. But, it was fun and I really fell in love with that little village. I have been there approximately four times since I immigrated because I feel some personal attachment to it. People were very nice who knew who we are and where we were from. My impression of Italy was very positive. That’s pretty much what I did. My wife stayed with my son because he was three years old. She could not move too much because of little kid. I killed time by working. I know it’s not like I was able to do anything else. I didn’t have a car or any money to travel. I killed time by working. I saw Rome very well. I would walk all day around, especially big tourist attractions. I feel very comfortable there because I know the town.

WS: After that I know that you mentioned that you first settled in Indianapolis. But what led you to choose Cleveland after that?

KP: Only one reason. When I graduated dental school I knew I needed to move somewhere because I want to build practice, based on a Russian speaking clientele. That was originally what I thought when I graduated. Now it’s not exactly the case. At the beginning I thought if I could start to work, better if the community is going to support me. Many Russian patients want to be treated by Russian speaking dentists and doctors. It is a big advantage to have at the beginning. When I graduated dental school I started to look around and my aunt lives in Cleveland and she suggests me to move. My friend, who is a dentist now, Dr. Ken who works on Mayfield Rd. He graduated from dental school at Case Western. He wants to specialize in orthodontics. I met with him in

8 Indianapolis because he has interview in dental school in Indiana to be accepted to orthodontic program. Eventually he graduated in Buffalo, but he suggested me to go also. A couple of guys I know moved from Cleveland to Indianapolis for business reasons. They also suggest to me to move to Cleveland. They said there is a pretty big community and not so many Russian speaking dentists there. It is pretty much all three sources coming together, so I said why not, and this is why I’m here.

WS: Just for clarification, how old were you when you came to Cleveland?

KP: I was born in 1964, I am 51 years old. I came to Cleveland in 96. I was 32 years old.

WS: I know you had been living in the States for a while before you came to Cleveland.

KP: Six years before.

WS: Right. Was there any sort of adjustment process to life in Cleveland?

KP: Cleveland was more I think at that time a more sophisticated town compared with Indianapolis, which at that time was a little bit boring. Now it is much advanced, they build a lot; it is more multicultural than before. I’ll still live in Indianapolis; if I see any future there I would stay there. I really consider it my hometown in America. And I was accepted very well here; I really like it with my work here, with my co-workers who helped me a lot. My experience with Indianapolis is strongly positive. I was really happy there. The reason to move was not because it was bad, but because I don’t see future as a dentist there. The city was oversaturated with dentists, but I don’t have the big community at that time. I realized it would be easier for me to start somewhere else. Cleveland has two advantages. I think it is more sophisticated all around, it is a larger city, it is an older city than Indianapolis. It is more multicultural. There are people with many more nationalities here. It is a strong immigration center. Not like New York or Chicago, but I can say it is completely different than Indianapolis. Number three it is a big Russian speaking community, Russian and Ukrainian, and because I speak both languages it has really helped me to start. I feel very comfortable living here, I am pretty happy. All of my thoughts about Cleveland came true when I planned my move. Sometimes you move and you are unhappy, that is not my case. I realize it, but what I met here was pretty much very close to what I expected.

WS: What about your family? How was their adjustment?

KP: Not maybe as easy as mine. My wife was happy with her work. She worked in an office with a very nice couple, the owner of a business, and my wife worked with them for six years. She was very happy with her work. So obviously for her it was a disappointment because it’s not easy to work with your husband. Now we work together every day, every minute. Dental office is pretty stressful environment to work in, not only as a patient, and as a doctor. When you work with your wife it is always challenging.

9 From that standpoint it is time for an adjustment. My son goes to school in Mayfield Heights. It is a necessary adjustment for him; I think for them it was more difficult than for me. For me it was pretty straightforward, even though I did not open practice from scratch. First I was associate then I work in justice center, I work in prison as a dentist. A good paying work and I accepted it. I was happy to work there for more than a year. I rented space from another doctor; I went through several offices before I decided to rent my own. It was pretty close. I moved to Cleveland in ‘96, and I opened practice in ‘98. I was busy all the time and my transition was smooth. Plus, culturally I feel much better. I needed to get lots of friends which I didn’t have in Indianapolis. In Indiana there were not many people I connect with. There were not very many of them, number one, and number two, I was so busy being a dental student. It was completely consuming me 24/7. But, after I graduated I want to communicate I want to have a good time, party blah blah blah. Cleveland was much more settled for that than Indianapolis.

WS: Yes, yes. Just sort of going back to the Jewish aspect, did you find that you, your identity with the Jewish faith got stronger when you came here?

KP: Yes, thanks to the Jewish Federation of Indianapolis they really kind of involved us [Telephone rings] in Jewish life at the beginning. We was being member of reformist temple in Indianapolis. We have several trips through synagogue in Indianapolis. They showed us how to celebrate Jewish holidays. My son at the beginning was accepted to Jewish academy in Indianapolis, a pretty expensive school. He was taught free for almost six months. We couldn’t afford it later because unfortunately, it was a very expensive school. He was there at the beginning and really gained a lot of Jewish life. I cannot say when I was a dental student I had any big Jewish role. There were no other Jewish students in my class at Indiana. When I came they even arranged wedding ceremony for twenty or thirty Russian speaking couples. They made a Jewish ceremony because nobody had a Jewish wedding. This was how it should be. It was civil, but not religious. It was done, it was reflecting the media in Indianapolis. They showed it on TV. It was fun, and so this make us feel very good.

WS: Absolutely. Did you participate in any activities socially, be they with the Jewish groups of Cleveland or otherwise when you all settled here?

KP: When we moved to Cleveland we were members of the temple located on Lander Rd. Even now I am a member of that temple. I attend during holidays. I cannot say I attend every Shabbat. That is not true. But, especially on Yom Kippur in the memory of my mother and my father, who unfortunately passed away. He passed away unfortunately, when we came to States in 1993. He was young, he was 57 years old. I really miss them both. That is why I go to Yom Kippur until today. I go to the temple religiously about that. After several years of my practice there were some feelings that I need to be more active in the life of the Jewish Federation. I know it exists, I am by no means dependent on that. [Unintelligible] patients with me. I don’t have any business relations with them. It was coming time in your life when you realize you got a lot from

10 Jewish community in the States when you were settled. You were under their influence to use government. They allowed us to come here and they support us for several months. I think I need to return something back. It is why I want to participate in Jewish life much more. I talked to my friend [Unintelligible] who is involved in Jewish Federation much more than me. I asked him if I could be any help, if you can refer me, I can do whatever is necessary. He referred me to overseas committee, of which I am a member. I am now on this committee that does things and supports Jewish life in St. Petersburg Russia. I am not originally from there, I am from Odessa, it’s a little bit different, but it doesn’t matter. I started to attend the meetings and they promote me to overseas committee, which is connected to Israel and not only with Russia. I do my best. I am really involved in fundraising, because I don’t have any problems to call Russian speaking Jews in Cleveland and asking them for donations to the Jewish Federation in Cleveland. That is what they wanted me to do, and I do it. Successful or not is a different story, but I think I do a pretty good job. I think I have increased donations to the Federation from Russian speaking immigrants when I participated.

WS: One more question about the adjustment. You mentioned that your son was relatively young when you all came…

KP: Three years old.

WS: Right. So what was the adjustment like for him, being so young?

KP: Well kids are rough. They don’t have any flexibility like adults, they don’t understand, you speak English and they don’t understand and they start to be stupid or retarded. At first he comes home and cries a lot because nobody wants to play with him. Nobody understands him. It was rough for him. It takes approximately a month, month and a half before you start talking to everyone else. He memorized language not like adults. He is like tape recorder. After that it is much smoother. For kids it is tough at the beginning, but much smoother later. For adults it is completely flip flopped. From the beginning you have culture shock. It is unbelievable. Shopping centers are unbelievable. TV shows are unbelievable, people are unbelievable, everything is unbelievable. People are unbelievable, the dress. Everybody smiles. But, after that you start to go to look for job, languages, this is a problem because not everybody is ready for it. Not everybody is able to handle that. Not everybody can be patient enough, blah blah blah, especially if you go to study like me and you need to borrow tons of money to go to school and compete with kids who have a very good level of education. To be accepted to dental school you must have a degree. It was tough, it was obviously tough. It’s how it should be, it’s how immigration should be. I strongly believe America is an excellent country for immigrants. If you really want to achieve something you can push. If you are not lazy, you can achieve a lot. I think my example is a very good reflection of that. For the kid it was rough, now obviously it is no problem. He was talking about one major, now he is thinking about another major. At home it was five years to get a degree and that is it. Here has much more freedom, that’s why I think he takes a little bit longer than

11 expected to graduate, but whatever makes him happy. He wants to do sports production, and that’s what he’s doing at Kent State School of Journalism, so be it.

WS: Now would you mind just describing your achievements since coming here? They can be professional, family, anything.

KP: Achievements is a big word for it. I did what I should do. Obviously, I’m lucky to be on the level I have right now. For me major dream when I came to States is returning to my family specialty, to be a dentist. I remember when I came to the dental school for the first time in the library in Indiana I saw the plaque that was donated by Cuban students who graduated dental school at Indianapolis, Indiana. Thanks to everyone at school to fulfil our dream to come back to our speciality, because they were dentists in Cuba, in that state. It is exactly what I will keep on my head for the rest of my life. It is exactly what I wanted to achieve. I wanted to be a dentist in America. This I achieved pretty early, I graduated in 1995, after I came to States five years before almost without language. It was lots of work, but I did it. My diploma is right there. It is my major accomplishment. From another standpoint, I raised my son. You’re a man if you have a job, and you raise your son, and you put [unintelligible]. I put some [unintelligible] in my home. What kind of children. I graduated dental school, family fine, everybody healthy living in our home of our dreams. This is what makes me happy. Pretty much is all I need. Because of that all around it’s coming all together. I am able to travel because my biggest kind of dream was to travel. It was impossible in the Soviet Union; you cannot travel wherever you want. Here my major fun is travel, having a chance to go somewhere, I will. We have done much travel and we enjoy it a lot. My sister lives not far from me; it is a five hour drive. Unfortunately my parents aren’t alive, but that’s life. If my father had moved to States with me, he would be alive today, I strongly believe this. But it didn’t happen. This was not achievable by me. I feel bad until today. I blame myself for not pushing enough. He was married to a different woman than my mother, it was a different family situation. There was nothing I could do. But, all around we’re doing fine, I feel very good.

WS: How would you identify yourself today?

KP: I am a Russian speaking Jew. This is pretty much the best description that could be. It’s not like I came to States and completely forget who I am, and I will forget that I am from Russia. Some people do it, some people like it. I don’t understand it. We came not from the horrible country; we came from a country with lots of culture, lots of tradition, and lots of history. The problem was the system, the communist government; it’s nothing to do with the people. People can believe this like it was in Germany under Hitler, like Russia under Putin unfortunately, it is brainwash work. But, it is not whole country, it became now, but, it was at that time. The people in that country have very rich traditions. Why I came, obviously I wanted to be successful in America. I am a citizen since 1995, and I am better in this country, but it’s not like I’m going to forget where I’m coming from. I speak Russian with my wife at home; I speak Russian and Ukrainian with

12 my patients. I visit my hometown several times, by the way last time it was months ago that I’d been in Odessa. I have a cousin there who is 50 years old. We had a celebration when I visited there. My parents are buried there, and I go to the Jewish cemetery there. We visit our hometown several times. I will never forget where I came from. I will never forget my cultural background and I very comfortable with that. In America it is a melting pot, there is not contradiction because of that. I can be a patriotic, law-abiding, American citizen, which I am, and consider myself right now. At the same time you can be Russian speaking and my Jewish identity in the first place. The best description is Russian speaking Jew. Again, I am new citizen since 1995. I’m very proud of it, it is the only citizenship I have, and I will never have any other. I have no intention to go back. I think that is a good description. Or you can say Russian speaking Jewish American. Maybe it’s even better, because it’s what it is.

WS: Alright. I believe that brings us to the end of the interview unless there is anything else you would like to add.

KP: I think you asked me everything and I described it as best as I can. Community is pretty big. It will (the story) continue in second and third generation. First immigrants came to Cleveland early 1970s. It would be interesting to talk to the people who came here in the 1970s. I am relatively fresh even though it is 25 years here. It is a good historical project, because it is a good chunk. A good community of people who came here, plus Cleveland is a big immigration center. Maybe not now, but beginning of 70s there was a big influence from the Jewish Federation of Cleveland from the government in order to facilitate Jewish immigration from the Soviet Union. They’re always accepting immigrants, early 70s, mid 70s, late 70s, 1980s.

WS: Absolutely. Thank you so much for participating.

KP: My pleasure.

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