Third Series1R.43 Monday, April 6, 1964 Chaitra 17, 1886 (Saka)

/2.6$%+$ '(%$7(6

Seventh Session Third/RN6DEKD 



/2.6$%+$6(&5(7$5,$7 New Delhi CONTENTS

No. 43 Monday, April 6, 1964/Chaitra 17, 1886 (Saka) COLUMNS Oral Answers to Questions- * Starred Questions Nos. 904, 905, 907 and 909 to 911. 9343-77 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 908 and 912 to 922. 9377-84 Unstarred Questions Nos. 1862 to 1881, 1883 to 1885 and 1887 to 1889 9384-9401 Obituary reference 9401 Re : Motion for Adjournment---- Reported ambush of Indian border patrol by Pakistan army. 9401-06 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance- Firing by Ceylon Naval launch guards at Indian fishing boat 9406- 08 Papers laid on the Table .9408,9409-10 R~ : Calling Attention Notice 9408 Presentation of petition . 9410 Assassination of Bhutanese Prime Minister 9410-11 Demands for Grants 9410,9412-9564 Ministry of Works, Housing and Rehabilitation 94 10,9412-9551 Shri C. K. Bhattacharyya 9412-19 Shrimati Renu Chakravartty 94 19-35 Shri P. S. Naskar 9436-44 Shri Basumatari 9445- 51 Shri Onkar Lal Bem'a Shri P. N. Kayal Shri Bagri. Shrimati Renuka Blrkataki Shri BishanchandeT Seth . Shri A. T. Sarma . Shri N. C. Chatterjee 9490--950 5 Dr. Ranen Sen 950 5-Ii Shri Yashpal Singh 95 1l--19 Shri 1\\ehr Chand Khanna 95 19-44 Ministry of Community Development and Cooperation

Shri Bishwanath Roy Shri Kapur Singh. ------.-.-.. ---.---- • The sign + marked above the name of a Member indicates that the Question was actually asked on the floor of the House by that Member. 112(Ai) LSD-I. LOK SABHA DEBATES

9343 9344 LOK SABRA ~ q,n ('ll ~ ~ Monday. AprH 6, 1964/Chdtl'a 17, ~ ~ ~~~~ (Saka) ~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~~ The Lok Sabha met at Elt'v('n of :he Clock. ~ iifT: llirt if 9;fI]'7, ~ (f If I MR. SPEAKER in the Chair"1 ~ g9;fT ~ ~ ",,'ri\: ~~ ""f ~ ;;(ff ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ~ I 9;fT1f ~ ~ ~ ~~ 'i'f'mr '1ft Standard Notation for A.I.R. ... 111' 111' 0; ... ~~ ~ ~ ;;(ff f1!"i'f'('l'f a, ';;'f;f ~ n:"" ~ ;;(ff l1:mf ~ ~ 1!lT ';'904. Shri Yashpal Singh: Will the \lfs'ii' ;;ifT fl1'<'l'iff ~ I ","if ~ Minister of information and Broad- m casting be pleased to refer to the 'ilffi ~ i'i'f I1f 9;fl'T ~ l1:rq ~ ~ reply given to Starred Question No. 0; ... ~ '/;T'T ~ ~ crT m;w ~ 162 the .26th November, 1963 and on ifm--r '1'T f.flfiT'i'f'ol ~ ~ I ~ ~ .tatc: 'f'1l1 ~ ~ ~ 'i'f'TlT 'fiTfmr ~ ~ f I ~ whether the question of 3dopt- ~ ~ ~ ~ ing a standard notation for use in

The Deputy ~ in the Minis- ~ f'f.' or) ~ India Shri Kapur Silll'h: Are Govern- Radio. The Committee met on the ment aware that improvisational 12th March, 1964 at New Delhi and its spontaniety is the most peculiar recommendations are receivin2 the characteristic of Indian music to consideration of (he Government. which national strait acket is the greatest enemy; if so, do they pro- 'll ~ ~ : ~ ~ ~ w: POSe to drop this proposal of notation ~ ~ m mw. ~ ~ ~ "iT f ... ~ I together! ~ ",:'t{ ~ it ~ ~ I ~ Shri Sham Nath: It is not proposed to drop it. We are cornidering the ;;n;;.rr ~ ~ ~ ~ 'foT ~ r'li" proposal, and the purpose of the "I"Ii' ~

have a standard notation which might Queen Mary's Technical School, facilitate the work of AIR, and which Kirkee, and one soldier in the Daya- may also be easily understood and nand Polytechnic, Jullundur, a Gov- appreciated in foreign countries. ernment recognised training institu- t'on. WTD ~ tnI' : ~ ;;rT q'lTr Shrimati Sav!tri Nigam: As the ~ ~ 1'IRro- 'f>T ~ ~ 'Tor ~ gt. hon. Defence Minister and the Deputy ~ ~ ~ it ~ ~ m,¥ Minister are both sympathetic to this problem, I would like to lmow whe- ~ ~ ;ro ~ ~ 'Il'Cl' 'R ~ "1'1' ther the Ministry has drawn up or in- f'flIT 'IT f'F fqrt;m :n;;rT ~ ~ ~ lends to draw up a defl.nite plan for ~ ~~~~~~ 'Ai'?: lhe education and rehabilitation of j hl'se disabled soldiers. ~ ~ 'l'1: 'f>1{ ~~ lfT.l"',: :n ~ 'if<;.rT ? Shri D. R. Chavan: So far as the 'frf0' c:i[Jcational facilities are concerned. ~ ~ rT'f. ~ 't;t provi"ion already exists for vocational 'iDel technical training for 100 disabled lfifur If.T ':1 rt""!, ~ rnr 'f>T ififur it ex-servicemen at the Queen Mary'" ~ fl(r'if ~ 't. ~ <1'tlT ~ ,q. I Technical School, and a stip('nd of ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ q;: If''r: f'f7l no right to transfer that question from that dQY, Under Rule ~ questions ~ " ~ ~ ~~ 'flitf", ~ wrr'l: it. which have not been disallowed muat ~ 'I\1;;r) ~ if; ~ ~

ther the fact that there are very few wagons point, and as far as coke is workers who have been sh:>wn on concerned; from manufacture to load- the record as being workers working mg-a system for abolition has been there for more than 12 months is not eVOlved. I may submit for the in- a clear indication that actually this iOl'mation of the hon. Member that contraet syskm continues and that (I out of 227 collieries where this sys- majority of these people have not tem prevailed, 120 collieries have abo- been made permanent? lished this system before the date when thc agreement came into opera- Shri R. K. Malviya: From the ',ion, that is, 30th September 1962, 83 figures that I have read out it is very collieries after this date, and only 24 clear that the workers have not been collieries remain where contract sys- made permanent, although a direction tem has not been abolished. We have has been issued to all the employing written to the employers' organisa_ collieries and their organisations that tions to see that this system is abolish- it should be left to the workers them- f'd from those collierie. also. selves if they want to continue for more than 12 months and they should '1'1 f!N11f sm'R : "0 'fiTfwn:'hr il be allowed to do 80 without any re&- triction. ~~~~~~ .rlJT ~ ~ -,,'l;q X0 rn: ~ ~ The Minister of Labour and Em- ployment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): I i;' itrrr ~ qn: lfg: .rit, ~ ~ ~ been proceeded with satisfactorily, may f'fi ~ 'A'l'rT Of(ffl'rll, R~ ifT lfilif,lfr I know what steps Government pro- pose to take to see that this bipartite ~ l:l'l:! l:!CT ~ iTlfT &, ~ t;lfNc: i ~ agreement is implemented? May I fi ~ it ~ ;:;jffr ~ I ~ also know what machinery has been ~ ~ set up by the Government to see that lii:! mf fif, 1fTfWf ::r ~ I with regard to the abolition of con- tract system in the collieries them- ~~~ ~ selves, that is, SO far as production of coal is concerned, from raising of '1>l{ liT ~ ~ ~ 11l1"T ~ ~ coal from the colliery to the loading in lim ~~ ifi'UIT ~ ? 9355 Oral Answers CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) Oral Answer;; 9356

~ ~ f/fiO ~ ~ iFT"I'(r differential treatment meted! out to them from the rest of the workers at ~ ~ it ~ ~ m ;;iT ~ CI1ii" the work site was abolished. Every qT

Shri R. K. Malvi),a: Yes, Sir. So Shri R. K. Maln,.a: It is very far as labour organisations are con- clear. The position is that those who cerned, all the Central organisations want to become permanent will be are unanimous Wilh regard to the made permanent. Now it is tor the abolition of this system. This has gol workers and also tor my han. friend I wo parts---

"U on a Question being called it is not asked or the member in IIlf ~ "ffi'r iw : "-1M,!:, ~ 1I5 whose name it stands is absent, J(r;;'l'T til ~ for. ~ J(T ~ 'RT1tl the Speaker may, at the request l'Tltl' %'I1tT ~~ 'fl"1: ~ ~ of any member, direct that the ;r answer to it be given." ;, or.T{ fCf'l:T'cT '1'F.!' ~~ ~ 7 ~ ~ i.'TT '3"'f '{:T 'I1tT J( mltT &;q-)"I: ;q-l(l: Mr. Speaker: Not at that time but crr.r after we have completed the list. ,,"Cfr

The Minister of Defence (Shri *tot. ...n ~ <=mI' iw Y. B. Chavan): I do not think we have taken any objection to the 'flfr srf\'mlT if'll' ~ '.f'ff.t 't'l' <[.'1'T development , ~ f'f. ...n ~ ~ iw : ~ it ( or. ) 'f'fmr

'r. fori'r ~ w:r ;'£"1' w. ..n ~ fori'r 0 ~ >.iff ~ : ~ ~R~ ~ ~ cr\: ~ "3"1'Tli f:r.n: ~ ? 'f.11 ~ !f>11 ~~ ffT ~ ~ .

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Shri Tyagi: ], it in occupied Kash- 11ft ~ ~ : ~ ~ tnir'! "fllCIT ~ r 011 m

Mr. Speaker: Order, order. - 11ft ~ ~ ~ : ~ ifffClJ ~~ I ~ 'ffii lit !fIlJ ~ ~ m if 11ft ..: ~ 'fT.f !If"l1T if"1f

~ ~~~ ll'\:lfrn Shri Y. B. Chavan: Yes, Sir. We will try to ascertain the information. !If"l1T "IT ~ ~ ~ :aori !lfT"Tr<: If"\: ~ ~ O1error ~ ~ ~ I !If

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( b) if so, the steps taken by Gov- ernment to further strengthen our Shri Harish Chandra Malhur: ~ ddence along the border to meet any hon. Minister has stated that he does ('ventuality? not knc\'I the purpose-naturally- b,tt has he any indication of ~ The Deputy Minister In the Minis- 0,:]-\('1' activ.ities. particularly in Jammil try of Defence (Shrl D. R. Chavan): and Kashmir. of espoinage and (a) Yes, Sir. various ot her activities? Can he link them wi til the overall activities (b) All possible steps are being there? taken to strengthen our defence. along the border. In this connection, Shri Y. n. Chavan: Particularly the attention is invited to the statement sa botagl' ~ vity and the raids can laid on the Table of the House in be linl:ed tiP with these, reply to Starred Question No. 262 answered on 24th February, 1964. Shri A. P. Jain: May know whether ,ny effort was made to find Shri D. C. Sharma: Is the hon. out why these roads have been con- Minister aware of the statement made structed and if so, what type of efforts by the Chinese Defence Minister that were made and "'i1h what result? formerly the Chinese soldiers out- numbered the Indian soldiers by 3: 1 and that if any engagement takes Shri Y. B. Cbavan: It is not right place in future they will be 5: 1 and, to Si,y wh ~ efforts we made in order to get this information, and to disclose if so, has the Government made any this information. arrangements to see to it that they are not so much outnumbered?

'" ~~ """" : f1fJl' ~ it The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. 'llfirnrT.,. .,. ~ it ;;rmft ~ ~ Chavan) : These are some of the threatening statements made by them. qT ~ or.rr <'f)- ~ IPfI' ~ ~ q- Certainly, what they can do dependJ Orat Answers CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) Ora! AmwcTs

upon the logical support of their Shr! "'em Barlla: May I submit why whole position; it is not a question of have put this question? It is a very arithmetic, namely whether it is 5: 1 important question. or 7: 1. It is a frightening posture; !\Ir. Speaker: The hon. Member may certainly, we have taken note of the resume his seat. I shall listen to him statements made on their behalf. afterwards. I have called Shl'i Kapur Shrl D. C. Sharma: Are Govern- Singh now. ment aware of the fact that though Shri Kapur Singh: May I know according to the Colombo proposals whether it is true that for all practi- the Chinese had to withdraw 20 km. caJ purposes Aksai Chin and our other from the actual line of control, they occupied areas are now an integral have built up 9 military posts in addi- part of the Chinese empire such al tion to' the stone markings in the area we cannot reclaim without defeatinl west of Ladakh, and if so, are Govern- China in an all-out war, and if so, ment taking any action about that? whether Government propose to tell Shri Y. B. Chavan: We have sent the country this truth and state ot our protest about it. affairs? Mr. Speaker: That again is ('overed Shri Shinkre: Are Government at by the earlier ~ Jeast sure that next time if at all anything happens, we shall not have The Prime Minister and Minister of to face this propor! ion of 3 : I? External Affairs and Minister of Atomlr Energy (Shr! Jawaharlal Shri Y. B. Chavan: I think that Nehru) : It is rather difficult for me our last experiences of the NEFA to answer this question that Aksai campaign have been very properly Chin is part of 1he Chinese empire. anaJysed, and certain lessons drawn Aksai Chin is certainly occupied by to which I had made a reference in China at the present moment. As to the statement that I had made in thi! what its fate will be in the future, House Jast year. On that basis, cer- I cannot say. tainly. some steps are being taken. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Who." Shri Hem Barua: May I know empire? whether Government are aware of the Shri : Chine." fact that Pakistan has successfully empire. convinced the Western quarters to the effect that all that China wants today Shri Hari Vishllll Kamath: That j, is a formal recognition by India of ancient history. the Aksai Chin area as an integral part of China, and if that is done, Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I think China does not propose to go to war those words were used by the hon. against India? It so, may I know Member Shri Kapur Singh. whether it is a fact that our Prime I cannol say what the future will Minister has conveyed his willingness bring. But we intend to try our best to settle our dispute with China on to g('t back all the tNritory that i, this proposal? If hE' has already done supposed to bl' ours. that, then the question of defence preparations does not come in. Shri Kashi Ram Gupta: How can it be 'supposed to -be'? It is ours. Mr. Speaker: But we are concerned with this question only now. S'lo <:TIl ~ ,,,'tfPr-.r "'TW; Shri Hem Barua: It is a very impor- ;. i1''' "l'-ff ~ 1; : tant question. Shri Surendranath Dwiyedy: Is it Mr. Speaker: Shri Kapur Singh. not a fact that in recent months the Ora! Answers APRIL 6, 1964 Ora! Answers

Chinese have further fortified the done, China does not propose to go occupied region of Ladakh, and if so, to war against India; if so, may I what concrete steps have we taken to know whether it is a fact that our strengthen our defences on that side Prime Minister has conveyed to of the border? China, through Mrs. Bandaranaike, that India is ready to negotiate with Shri Y. B. Chavan: Particularly on China on the basis of this proposal? the Ladakh side. we art:! taking the I just wanted to know that. same st.eps as we are taking on the N ~ side. We are giving the neces- Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: do not sary logistic support to our troop;, know what the Western Powers or which arc stationed tht:!re and giving what the Colombo Powers have com- further training to the troops. Thesc municated to China or other people. are the two impor'Jant matters. I think About that, I have no information. tha t necessary steps have been taken Our position is that if the Colombo particularly in these two directions. proposals arc accepted by the Chinese Shri Sureadranath Dwivedy: Have Government, we are prepared to we any information as to whether negotiate with them. What will hap- t'ley have fortified their position? pen after negotiation is another matter. Shrimati Savitri Nigam: May know the date of the ~ and Shri Hem Barua: Negotiation on whether any reply has been received? what basis? May I also know whether Govern- ment have informed the Colombo Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: We nego- powers and other allied powers tiate with them, on no basis, on the regarding thi ....; new and provocati\'l' whole question of what our cl:lim is. act of China'.' Shri Hem Barua: The criticism is Shrl Y. B. Chavaa: I have not got that China wants negotiation or settle- the date of ih" protest t ha I was lodg- ment of the problem on the basis of ed, but .in fact it was lodged. our handing over Aksai Chin to China. Shrimati Savitri Nigam: The other That is the basis, and I want to know part of the question has not bl'('n the Prime Minister's reaction to this. answered, wh "th:'r the allied power" have been inflrmed ~ tJ,is un- Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I do not friendly and mo t provocative ,Ict of understand his asking my reaction to China. a hypothetical question that may arise. So far as Aksai Chin is con- Shri Y. B. Chavan: Yes. cerned, we consider it to be, and it Shri Hem Barna: My question is is our territory. So, we claim it. As related to a \. "1', pertinent fact, the hon. Member might know, we mean th" he"dli:les in the news- have proposed that this matter of the papers. Sino-Indian conflict can be referred to the Hague Court, or to arbitration, Mr. Speaker: That is too wide " which they have not accepted. For question. the rest, we claim all our territory back. Shri Hem Barua: I want to Know whether Government arc aware of Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Then do the fact ~ Pakigtan, and tlH' not attend the Bandung-type C'onfer- C{,lombo Powers also, have tried to ence at Jakarta. convince Western circles of the fact that all that China wants today is a Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: What about formal recognition by India of the Jakarta? fact that Aksai Chin area is an inte- gral part of China, and if that i! Mr. Speaker: Order, order. Ora! Answers CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) Ora! Answers 9368

Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: He is Mr. Speaker: Order, order. In this replying. Why should we attend the manner, it cannot be carried on. conferene .. at Jakarta? Shri Hem Barua: What is he going Mr. Speaker: That is a different to do? thing altogether. Mr. Speaker: He has answered it. Shri Hari Vishnu Karnath: It is Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I cannot linked up with that. guarantee anything that may happen Mr. Speaker: No, no .. in future or we may have to do. But our purpose is to regain the ground Shri I1ari Vishnu Karnath: Why that we have lost. should we talk with China when our Shri Ranga: Why do we go and position is so clear? May I submit that China is flagrantly violating the attend the conference? (lln!erruption). Colombo proposals, and now we are Mr. Speaker: Order, order. going to shake hands with China? Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: May I say, Mr. Speaker: I did not identify him. really do not see what that has got He cannot put this question In this to do with our attending the Jakarta manner· Conference.

Shrl Ranga: Now that it is admit- Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: You go ted that China's build-up is grow- and shakp hands with Chou En-Iai? ing-but at the same time, Govern- Shri Ranga: They arc our enemies. ment has not given us any details at all as to their' awareness of the various Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Shake kinds of build-up that are going on hands with the blood-stained hands of On the other side-may we have the Ch'ou En-lai? (Interruption). assurance that our build-up is being developed with the definite objective Mr. Speaker: Order, order. It can- of regaining the ground that has been nol bp thrashed out like this here. lost to China. and if that is so, why There might be differences of opinion. is it that Government is in the mean- Shri Ranga: I do not want to talk while trying to take part in this con- about unpatriotic activities, but this is ference where China also is being a hopeless policy-of going and shak- invited? ing hands with those people in ~ Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I can give an assurance that our build-up is Mr. Speaker: Order, order. Shri growing, that our defence potential is Yadav. growing, no doubt about that. Silri Ranga: Whal is this thing you Shrl Rall&"a: With the definite pur- are doing? pose of recapturing our own ground?

Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The pur- I!olT ~ m ~ : SI'!:lT'I ;fifi if pose is to gain our territory, to be ~ if; ~~ ~ om: it ~ able to face Chinese aggression and ~ f

>;f' ~~ 'm"' : 'f1:I'r «Wif The House has only 3 days back ~ 'liT i!fq',f ~ l);qrq, f'l"IITtT passed a unanimous resolution for enlisting worM opinion regarding this ~ mr ~ "Iff ~ flfO!'T ~ ~ matter, and all possible steps will be 'I €. f, ~ if '"iff ~ ~ lfRl qT wft, taken in that direction. This would be more advantageous, as a formal ~ ~ ':3'if ~ ~ 'fT'ifl q'T q trf ~ rc'ference t.o the United Nations might W ~ Cfif; ~ ~ ~ ~ ':3''1' involve legal complexities. More- ~ 'lftq ~ ~ ~~ efT;"!" over, the Government hope that the mat tel' can be discussed fruitfully at ~ ~ ~ ~ ? thc forthcoming meeting of the Home Ministers of India and Pakistan on the Shri Y. B. Chavan: I have said that 7th April. I might also add that there they have got more regiments on the is no such thing as human rights border than there were in September- charter. There is a universal declara- October. 1962. ~ have certainly taken note of this. We have also tion of human rights which does ·nol taken note of their preparation by way impose any leg.al obligation 'in mem- bers to abidp by thesE' articles of stocking more ammunition, etc., that they are constructing and strengthening their roads, etc. We Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Is it a hayc certainly taken note of these fact that Pakistan, by ceaseless and things so as to help us to make our \'\at.antly false propaganda, has own preparations. poisonrd the minds of the member States of the United Nations against Shri Tyagi: May I take it that there India, pulting India in the dock, as it has been no change in our policy were, and is it a fact that Government with regard to the Colombo proposals has woefully failed to realise that the since thE' time Wt· had agreed to talk 1ruth is not so obvious to everyone, in the initial stages on our conditions? and what steps, therefore, are being Ma\" I take it that there has been t"ken by Government to propagate no change in the stand, where we the truth in advance of Pakistani lie. stood, a year before? and also to counteract Pakistani pre- Shri Jawaharlal !IIehru: There has paganda effectively in the United been no change with regard to it. Nations "nd in the world?

Treatment Meted Ollt to Minority Commullities in East Pakistan Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: This haa been discussed many times-that we "911. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Will are taking all steps the Prime ~ be pleased to state:

(a) whelhcr G'.)vernment propose to An Hon. Member: What are thou inscribe on the agenda for the next steps? session of the United Nations General Assembly the question of barbarous persecu lion of minorities in East Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: wi!l Pakistan verging on genocide, Ii gross tell you. violation of the Human Righh Charter by the Government of Pakistan; and Shri Ranga: Sending round a num- ber of emissaries. (b) if not, lhe reasons therefor?

The Minister of State in the MiDl.s- Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: The try of External Mairs (Shrlmati steps are that the truth is brought to Lakshmi Menon): (a) and (b). No, the notice of all those countries which Sir. 113vc been subjected to this Ora! Answers CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) 937 1 Ora! Answers 9372 Shrl Harl Vislmu Kamath: Too late National Assembly at Rawalpindi he. and too little. been saying that the discussion will be centred only round the question of Shrimati Lakshmj Menon: . . . and communal disturbances in India and a number of pamphlets, giving the nothing else? true situation, are sent, and broad- casts ... The Prime Minister ad Minister of External Affairs and MinIster of Shri Ranga: Parliamentary delega- Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal tion also, as a sop. Nehru): As far as I know, there haa Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: I do not been no detailed agenda drawn up think that the hon. Member wants to yet to consider this as the first item hear what I say. in the programme. But broadly, the agenda is, troubles that have occur- Shri Swell: Not the hon. Member red in East Pakistan and in India, and alone. We are here to listen I ~ will be considered along with Shrimati Lakshmi Me.OIl: The other matters associated with them. necessary literature is put out and May I just say one word not in our Press Attaches in the various relation to this particular question, ~ give out the truth about the but the previous question? Hon. situation in India and our cause. By Members will realise that there are these steps, we are able to influence a large number of correspondents of many countries. To say that ..... e have foreign newspapers here and public been sleeping over it and we are opinion is formed in other countries giving the lead away to other coun- by their messages and by what they tries, to Pakistan, to do all the pro- send, because the messages that we paganda is not correct. may send or that Pakistan may send are considered to be not very unbias- Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Is the sed, etc. It is what these people say, Government fully satisfied that all who carry out propaganda for us or our missions abroad, who liTe relt- against us or whatever it may be, that ponsible for informing and enlighten- has some effect and not so much the ing the Governments and peoples of pamphlets that we may issue. We those countries with regard to India issue pamphlets. Our people fO are headed and manned by people abroad to meet Governments and who are hundred per cent loyal to Government representatives and India, without any iota of extra- pressmen in other countries. But territorial loyalty to Pakistan or principally, it is the foreign corres- China, and if the answer be In the pondents who are in large numbers negative. what ~ are Govern- here, who ~ their ~ of ment taking to rectify the ~ what they see, that have some efl'ect Shrlmatl Lakshmi Menon: All our on other countries. officers are hundred per cent loyal to our country. Shri Bar! Vishnu Kamath: It con- firms the question that I asked that Shrl Bari Vi!lbnu Kamath: Ques- our missions abroad are not efficiently tion. Some are not. manned and our press is not efficient according to him. Shri Tridib Chaudhnrl: The hon. Minister has just stated that this Dr. L. M. Slnghvl: May I know question may be fruitfully discussed whether the Government have ascer- in the coming Home ~ con- tained the factors whiCh are responsi- ference. May I know in this connec- ble for the inadequacy of our foreign tion whether there ~ been any publicity in recent months and agreed agenda for the Home Ministers' whether the Government is in a posi- conference, specially in view of the tion to give the reasons for not using fact that the Leader of the Pakistan this violation of human rights before 112(AI) LSD-2. 9373 Oral Answers APRIL 6, 1964 Oral Answers 9374 the international forum as a propa- 11ft ~ ~ ~ ~ ganda move against Pakistan? : ~~~~~~~ I Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I would submit that there has been no inade- P.olT ~ ~~ li'.f' 'fir ~~ quacy of our foreign publicity. That is the first thing I would like to sub- ~ I l'f', <: ~~ ~ <1''<; ~ I li' ~ mit to this House. It has been rather ~ ~ ~ ~ ,A, ".r '1" m efficient, especially in the last two or ~ three months. I Shri Hari Vishllu Kamath: Not at Shrt Basumatar1: May I dr.aw the all. attention of the Prime Minister to the Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Of course, news which appeared in the papers a everything can be improved and hon. few days ago to the effect that when Members may think that it is inade- the Parliamentary Secretary to the quate. But my personal opinion iJI Ministry of External Affairs in the that it has been rather good in the Pakistan National Assembly was put last three months or so. Regardina the question as to what was the main what the hon. Member thinks 1n item on the agenda for discussion in regard to human rights, etc., it is not the forthcoming Home Ministers' Con- such an easy thing. ference where the stated categorically t.hat the main and foremost item wa3 Shri Vishnu Kamath: But Hari the stoppage of eviction of Muslims human rights are very precious. from Assam and Tripura. May I know Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Even in re- whether it is a fact; if so. what action gard to that, what I said applies. That will be taken by the Government in is, what the foreign correspondents this regard? here say carries more weight than what accordinr, to them a biassed per- Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: That mirht 90nality might say. be ihe opinion of Pakistan, Sir; but that is not the main item on tbe ~ ~~ mro : ~ ~ agenda. Certainly, if they insist, that will be put on the agenda and that mfll' ~ ~ ~ 'i 0 <'fT19 ro:s '" will be discussed. ~~ ~~~ srf;m:r ;r, ~ ~ " f

Shri Nath Pai: We did not hear Shri Harl.

·9l!. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the Production of Simulators Prime Minister be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that French ·914. Shri Ram Harkh Yadav: Will and German television teams had gone the Minister of Defence be piP.3.sed to Garo Hills to record the sufferings to state: of Christian refugees from East Pak- (a) whether the l.A.F. Technicians istan in that area; and have collabOT.ated to produce simula- (b) if so, the steps taken by Gov- tors in the country; ernment to see that they do not coilcct (b) if so, whether the India-made any material to be used for propa- !timulatOTs have been given trial and landa aeainst India! found IUccessfdl; and 9379 Written AnswE!Ts CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) Written Answers 9380

(c) the i1pproximate cost Ex-I.N.A. Pel'8ODllel !imulator? r Shrl Bar! Vishnu Kunath: The Minister of Defence (Shrl Y. B. -916. i. Shri Bhagwat Jha Aza.: Cha"an): (a) No, Sir. Shrimati Savitr! Nigam:

(t) and (c). Do not arise. Will the Minister ot Detenee be pleased to refer to the reply given to NatioDalisation of Shops in Starred Question No. 606 on the 16th Burma December, 1963 and state: r SlIri Nath Pai: (a) how mUQh of the earmarked I ~ P. C. Borooah: sum at Rs. 30 lakhs for fUll'ther re- I Shri Bishwanath Roy: liet to ex-INA ,personnel haa been -915 J Shri P. R. Chakraverti: paid; '") Shri Rishang Keishing: I Slori ~ Vir Shastri: (b) the number of ex-INA person- Silri R. Parua: nel or their widows who have receiv- l SlIri D. C Sharma: ed the relief so tar; and Will the Prime Minister be pleased (c) how many more are eligible? to state: (a) whether the Burmese Govern- The Minister of Detence (Shri Y. B. ment have recently nationalised all Chavan): (a) Rs. 4.08 lakhs approxi- private owned wholesale shops, ware- mately, up to the 15th March, 1964. houses, stores and brokers establish- ments in Burma, including those be- (b) 3,lOO ~ personnel Or theI.r longing to the Indian; families have been paid the relief. (b) if so, the total estimated assets (e) About 10,:500. or the ,Indian entrepreneurslbusmess- men nationalised by BUTIlla; and Migrants from Indian Enclaves ill (c) the steps being taken to settle East Pakistaa the transfer or assets referred to above? _ Shri Yashpal Singh: 917. L Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: The Deputy Minister in the MInis- Will the Prime Minister be pleased try ot External Affairs (Shri Dlnesb state: Singh): (a) Some categories of (a) whether it is a tact that a large shops in the Rangoon Municipal area number of people residing in Indian engaged in certain commodity distri- enclaves of Ea'st Pakistan have mig- bution have been nationalised. rated to West Bengal; (a) The number of Indian /JIops (b) if so, the reasolls therefor; and taken over by the Burmese Govern- ment is estimated to be about fifteen (e) the action taken by Government hundred. A very rough unofficial es- in the matter? timate would put the assets nationaliz- ed at over 5 crores. The MInister of State In the Minis- (c) Equitable compensation hIlS try of External Affairs (ShrJmati been promised but no special facili- Lakshmi MenoB): (a) and (b). Yes ties for transfer of assets to India hav" Sir, we are aware that over 6,000 per- been announced by the Government sons have crossed the border into of Burma. This general issue is engag- India from the Indian enclaves i' ing the attention of the Government East Pakistan due to insecurity of ille of India. and proPfillV. Written Answers APRIL 6, 1964 Written Answers

(c) A finn protest has been addres- IIIlSed to look into this and to LOn- sed to the East Pakistan Govern- suit his Goverrunent. ment at the State level. (b) The reaction of the Government of Pakistan to our proposal is awailed. Joint Survey of Tripun-East Pakistan Border Talks with Hostile Nagas r Shri D. C. Sharma: I Shri Onkar Lal Berwa: r Shri P. C. Borooah: I Shri Kachhavaiya: I Sliri Nath Pai: I Shri Vishram Prasad: <919) Shri P. R. Chakraverti: *918. '\ Shri B. P. Yadava: I Sllri Shree Narayan Das: I Shri Bishanchander Seth: I Sbri Swell: I Shri Dhaon: L Shri Hem Barua: I Shri D. D. Mantri: Will the Prime Minister be pleasc'd L Shri Basumatari: "J state:

Will the Prime Minister be pleilsed (a) whether Government was COII- (0 state: su 1ted 011 the issue of setting up .l Curnrnittee for peace talks with ,he !\faga rebels uy the Nagaland Gov- (a) whether Government of India Cfl1ment; have renewed their proposal to PakiS- tan for joint inspection of a disputeu a,ea on the Tripura-East Paki.;tan (b) if so, whether the Central Gov- berder whieh is being populated by ernmen t acoorxl.ed thei.r approval ~ Pakistanis in violation of the i ~ Indo-Pakistan Stanustill Agreement; and (e) wheth,'!' the Central Govern· ment would be associated with Liles<' parleys with Naga rebels; and (b) if so, the reaction of the Gov- (d) if so, how? ~ of Pakistan thereto? The Minister of State in the Minis- try of E;deBal AJlairs (Shrimali Lakshmi Menon): (a) and (b). The The Minister of State in the Minis- rlecision was taken by the legislat.yc try of External Mairs (Shrimati ,mct the Government of Nagaland on Lakshmi Menon): (a) Yes, Sir. More their own. recently, the proposal for a joint ins- pection of the area on the uppel Tf.·aches or the Fenny river where (c) and (d). The Government of Pakistan has raise-d a dispute, WaR Inclia's view is that it is fOr t:1e formally made to East Pakistan in a Nagas themselves to settle any diffe- communic.ation addressed by the rences between themselves. It, how- Tfipura Government (0 the Govern- ever, the Government of Nagal,md ment of East Pakistan on 15th Janu- d';sire the Government of India t() ary. 1964. On 17th March, 1964, the take any action, the Government of Commonwealth Secretary personaliy India would be glad to be of help. re(1uested the Pakistan High Corr,- m:ssioner in New DeLhi to try and Pensions and Gratuity oersuade the Government of Ea:;t Pakistan to agree to a joint inspec- r Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: tion ot this area. The High I Shrl Kapur Singh: ~ for Pakistan pro- "920. ~ Shrl P. K. Gliosh: 93 83 Written Answers CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) Written Answers 9384

~ Y. N. SiDgha: U.N. OIt!Jervera l Sbrl P C. Borooah: .9U. Shri P. C. 8Orooah: Will the Will the Minister of Defence be Prime Minister be pleased to state: pleased to state: (a) whether on a request by Gov- (a) whether an upward revision ot (.n,ment the number of U.N. obser- pensions or gratuity admissible to velS in Kashmir has been increased; heIrs of our DefenCe personnel killed and in action IS contemplated; and (b) if so, to what extent? (b) it so, the broad features there- The Minister of State In the Minill- of,' try of External Main (Shrimatl The MInister of Deteace (Shri Y. B. Lakshmi Menon): (a) and (bJ. The Chavan): (a) No concrete proposal, number of U.N. Observers has recent- for upward revisiolls of pensions or ly been increased. This increase has gratuity admissible to heirs of De- not been made at Government's fence Services personnel killed in rEquest. action are at present under examina- ~ with Government. The rates ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ of Special Family Pension in respect uf Service personnel below Officer ~~ 'itT ~ ~~ ro l':mk were increased last yellr wIth ~~ 'lifi ~~ ~ ~ FIT effect from 1st April, 1961. rn f.. : (b) Does not arise. ( 'F) fID"i"'l1 if ~ ..,..,.,. fu;: "'I ~ Qfrfp:rfa

(b) when such delegations 1'I'ili be' Sl'fcmtT ~ (o..ft ~~ sent; and ~ : (

(b) One delegation is likely to leave ~ India by the middle of this month. ~ 'IT ~ ~ : 'f!n (c) Countries in West Asia and North Africa. ~ ~ 1t'lit ~~~ 'ltV Written AnstDl!7's APRIL 6, 1964 Written Answers

~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ 404 840 t t, ..------~ ~ 1fmr t EIlJT'i\'T7..q1f) ~ IadiaDs .. South Africa ~ ~~~ 'I"R" qcrrw Shri P. R. Chakraverti: 111ft ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 1fi ~ it { Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: ~ fir i 'Itt {\" lfTt(f t I - 1866. Shri Maheswar Naik: Shri p. C. Borooah: Employ_ 01 A.LK. Cuttack 1864. Shri Ramachandra Ulaka: Will the Prime MIalster be pleased Will the Minister of InIormatloa ..d to state: Broadcasting be pleased to state the (a) whether reports have bf>en re- number of staff artistes and other em- ceived about the number of persons ployees of the All India Radio station ot Indian origin affected by the work- at Cuttack (Orissa) belonging to Sche- ing of apartheid laws in South Atrica; duled Castes and Scheduled Tnbea &s on the 31st January, 1964? (b) the details of hardships inflicted The Minister of ParHamentary on them; and Affaira (Shrl Satya Narayan SiDha): Twenty-three. (c) whether they have sought the advice and assistance of the Govern. Womea Registered with Orissa :lID- ment of India? 107D1ent Exchaages The Prime Minister, Mlaister of !'!x- 1865. Shri Ramachandra Ulaka: ternal Affairs and MiIlister of Atomic Will the Minister of Labour aad Em- Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehrll): ployment be pleased to state: (a) The entire Asian populahon of (a) the number of women candi- South Mrica, (4,77,000) most of whom dates (both graduates and non-gradu- are of Indian origin is affected by the ates) who have been registered in Apartheid Laws of the Government various Employment Eltchanges in of South Africa; Orissa as on the 31st December, 1963; and (b) The policy of Apartheid has (b) the number out of been evolved to separate racial groups them pro- in !!Very conceivable field viz. com- vided with employment assistance mercial, educational, social, economic, during the year ending the lIst December, 1963? political, residential, etc. The appli- cation of this policy caused the peuple The Deputy MiDlster .. the Mhds- of Indian origin, along with ~ non- tr)' of Labour and Employmeat and Europeans in South Africa, untold for Planalnc (Shrl c. B. PattabhJ misery, suffering and humiliati?n. In Baman): (a) and (b). every field of their eltistence. Eco- 9387 Written Answers CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) Written Answers 9388 llomically, the greatest tragedy of the Ic:,,,, patrol on the frontier between people of Indian ongm, many of India and Nepal on the 22nd Tanuary, whom were engaged in trade in South Two of them were released and ~ Africa, has been that they have been other two detained. Two more Indians Upl'Ooted from their business centres were arrested by the Nepalese on the and dwelling places, wluch they had morning of the 23rd January. It occupied for many years. They have appears that, while these two were thus suffered severe loss. being taken away by the Nepalese (eJ The people of Indian origin liv- patrol, a number of Indians went to iug in South Africa have completely their rescue and, during the lcuftle, iden tilied themselves with their other the patrol opened fire causing the affected compatriots in the fiiht death of one person and injul'ies to against apartheid. They are unable to others. One of the injured persons seek specific advice or assistance but died later. the Government of India hal taken No trace has been found of the a leading part in fighting South Nepalese patrol whose members are Africa's racial policies in ~ interna- also believed to be dead. tional forum. This has given them considerable support 'in their struaile. A Joint Enquiry was held into this lllcident by Representatives of the Two IndiallS Killed i.a Nepal Governments of India and Nepal and their report is under consideration by Shri D. C. Sharma: the two Governments. bhri Yogendra Jha: rShri Bibhuti Mishra: Shri Vishwa Nath Pandey: Col. Commanding of Jat Regiment Shri Hem Barua: I 1868. Dr. L. M. Singhvi: Will the 1867. ~ Shri M. Rampure: Minister of Defence be pleased to Shri Ram Harkh Yadav: I 'tale: I Shri Koya: Shrimati Maimoona Sultan: I (a) whether a former Defence Shri Yashpal Singh: Min'ister continues to be aesociated l Shri Himmatsinhji: with the Armed Forces as a Colonel Commanding or patron of the Jat Will the Prime Minister be pleased Regiment; and to state: (b) if so, the position of such 8 (a) whether it is a fact that two Colonel Commanding or patron and Indian Nationals were killed in an in- how he is appointed? cident which took place near Bahaisa- lotan on the 24th January, 1964 in The Minister of Defence (Sbri Y. B. Nepal; and Chavaa): (a) No, Sir.

(b) if so, the details of the inci- (b) Does not arise in view of (a) dent and the action taken in the above. Under existing rules. only matter? serving or retired Army Officers are eligible for appointment as Colonell The Prime Minister, MinlM"r of Colonel Commandant of a Regimentl External Affairs and Minister of AtCl- Corps. Rulers of erstwhile Indian mie Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): States and civilian gentlemen holding (a) Two Indians were killed as the honorary ranks of Colonel and above result of an incident which took place in the Army are associated as Hono- at a place near Bahainsalotan on the rary ColonellHonorary Colonel Com- 23rd January, 1964. mandant of RegimentlCorps of their choice aUd those holding honorary (b) According to our information, ranks of Lt. Col. and below are asso- four Indians were arrested by a Nepa- ciated as Honorary Officer;w. I Written Answers APRIL 6, 1964 Written Answers 9390

Ground-to-Alr CommIlDieaU•• ~ 'lI'T, ~ I 1869 f Shri D. C. Sharma: . \. Shri Vishwa Nath Pandey: (if) ~ ~ ~ 'fT ~ it 'tI'flf ~~ ~ ~ if:T ~ flf"q· Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to state:

(c) When it is proposed to be sup- (a) the number of officers from the plied to our Defence Forces? D2fence Services sent abroad for ll'

The Minister of DefeDce Production I h) the names of the countries to in the Ministry of DefeDce (Shri which they were sent? Raghuramaiah) : (a) Yes, Sir. The Minister of Defence (8hr! y, B. (b) and (c). It would not be in Chavan): (a) 21. the public interest to divulge details. (b) Canada, Malaya, U.K. and U.S.A. ~~~~ Body Buildbag of Trucks ~~ >.ifT Sfll'irn ~ mro : 'WT 1872. 8hri S. M. Banerjee: Will Sfftmn 111fT ~ r to state: (>r) ~ it $rr ~ ~ ~ (a) whether it is a fact that his Mll1istry has given contracts to ~ ~ m ~ i<.'l' ij; 11!:lT i:,' ~ private firms in Delhi for body build- +f-*TT;: fr:r.rr l'ilff \!ff, 'f

  • .ifT ~ Supplis and Disposals and not by the '"'l(f1IT) : ( "':) ;;f[, 'lit I Ministry ot Defence. Some of theM 9391 Written Answers CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) Written Answers 9392

    contracts were with private ftnns in Ordnance Depot and E.M.E. Work- Delhi. shops.

    (b) and (c). A very large number (c) No, Sir. of TMB chassis were procured after the onset of the Emere:ency and these Plan Publicity had to be filted urgently with bodies to Defence specifications. Recourse 1874. Shri H. C. Soy: Wili lhe had, therefore, to be taken to what- MlOistry of Information ami Broad- ever source could build bodies. EME castinl:' be pleased to state: workshops have also been entrusted ~ whether any steps have been with the work of body building. taken to popularise the five year plans There was no surplus labour available in tribal industrial ree;ions of Bihar, in these workshops. Ol'issa, West Bengal ana Madhya TL" OrdnanCe Factories are :tully l'rade,h through the media of tribal engaged in lhe manufacture of com- 'U!lgs and drama and their folk art; plete vehicles, both Nissan and and SIJaktiman, and are planning increas- ( b) if so, the details thereof? ed prod uction of these two types of \·"hieles. They do not have spare The Deputy Minister in the 1\1inis- capacity for building bodies on TMB try of Information aDd BroadcastiJll:' chassis. \Sht, Sham Nath): (a) and (b). On ",count of the multiplicity of Professio. Tax in Delhi Ca.tt. tnbal dialects and the lack of scripts 1873. Shri S. M. Banerjet': Will the 111 those dialects, it has not yet been Minister of DefenCe be pleased to pOoSlble to anange separate publicity state: programmes through tribal dialects. Nonetheless. the tribal and industrial (a) whether it is a fact that autho- areas in question are covered along rities of Military Hospital, Delhi Cantt. with the other areas, by the general have again started the recovery of programmes of our Field Publicity Profession Tax from the industrial Organisation given in the major re- employees w.e.f. 1st March, 1964; gional languages. No separate statis- (b) whether such tax is also beine tics are maintained in respect of the programmes arranged for the tribal! ~ from other trade employees of the EME workshop and ordnance indu,rtial areas as distiniuished from depot; and the other areas 'in the same State. (c) if so, whether Government pro- pOse to refUnd the same and issue If"'" ~ llil ~ ~ orders for the stoppage of further re- ~ ~ ~ ~ covery? I5ff : ~ ll'W

    ~ ) ifln tm'IlI' ~ q 't1T (b) whether there is likely to be ~ slash and if so, to what ~ ~ ifi1 'fit There is no such thing as an agreed ~ mt tT': ~ lfi'r mm ~ ~ ort ~ continuing level of assistance. f'fi "if ~ l1f<'f1{,;;rT"{T if ~ ~ .. (c) It will not be in the public in- ~ mm a\TT cr'fi if; f<'fQ; ~ ;;r.r ct

    Foreiga Military Aid The Prime MInlster. MInister of External A1laira and MlaIater of 1876. Shri p. C. Borooah: Will the Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Mwister of Defence be pleased to Nehru): (a) to (c). Yes, Sir, we state: have seen the news item and It ill likely that these written declaratlona (a) how American and British mili- are being taken from the migrantl tary aid to India durin2 1964-65 is who are compelled to leave their likely to compare with that received hearths and homes in East Pakistan. in 1963-64 according to the commit- We have no official information as ITh!nl. ai they stand at present; these declarations are being taken by 9395 Written Answers CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) W 'tt A "en nswers 9396

    the local authorities in East Pamtan Nations was, after she had re3igned before the migrants enter India. the Governorship of Maharashtra (d) We have fonnally and re- apPOinted as an Officer on Speciai peatedly represented to the Govern- Duty in the Ministry of External ment of Pakistan to discharge its full Affairs; responsibility towards its minority (b) if so, the reasons therefor; communities so that they may liYe in peace ana harmony. (e) whether she was paid a salary; and EmergellCy Commissioa (d) If so, how much per mensem? 1878. Shri Onkar Lal Berwa: Will the Minister of Defence be pleaaed to The Prime Minister Minister of state: Ederul Mairs and Minister 01 (a) whether it is a fact that lome Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) Yes. persons who had applied for the Emergency Commission prior to 31st (b) On her appointment as Leader December, 1963 were not called for of the Indian Delegation to the 18th interview on the ground that they Session of the General Assembly of were over age although thej" had the the United Nations, Shrimati Vijay requisite age limit at the time of applying; Lakshmi Pandit relinquished charge of the office of the Governor of Maha- (b) the number Of such person.; rashtra. During her absence, Mr. Justice Chainani, Chief Justice of (e) whether any representations the Bombay High Court, was appoint- have been received from them; and to discharge the functions of the Governor of Maharashtra. For the (d) if so, the action taken thereon? duration of her deputation to the The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. United Nations General Assembly as Chavan): (a) No, Sir. Eligibility of the Leader of the Indian Delegation, a candidate for .grant of Emergency Shrimati Pandit was appointed an Commission, in so far as age is con- 'Officer on Special Duty' in the cerned, is determined with reference Ministry of External Affairs. to the date of submission of his ap- (e) Yes. plication. Although the maximum age limit for grant of Emergency (d) All Officer on Special Duty m Commission was reduced from 30 to the Ministry Of External Affairs, she 27 years with effect from 1-1-1964, was ,allowed to draw &s. 4,000 per those candidates who applied prior to month as her salary as against 1-1-1964 were not affected by this re- &s. ~ per month which she was duction in age limit. drawing as Governor ot Maharashtra.

    (b) to (d). Do not arise. Production Bonus

    Leader of the lndilLll Dele&,atJoll )880. Shri S. M. Banerjee: Will the to U.N.O. Minister of Defeaee be pleased to ~ 1879. Shri Bar! Vi!!Ihnu Iama!h: (a) whether it is a fact that a deci- Will the Prime Mini!lter be pleased to sion to pay production bonus to the refer to the reply given to Unstar- workers of the Maintenance and red Question No. 241 on the 17th Repairs Section of Ordnance Factories February\ 1964 and state: has since been taken; (a) whether the leader of the (b) it so, the details ot those orders; Indian delegation to the United and 9397 Written Answers APRIL 6. 1964 Written Answers

    (c) the number of worker. to be ~~ tf!lfT ~ ~ ;m1Q11f covered by the scheme? m ~ : (;r.) OTr, f,T The Miaister of Defence Produc- tion ia the Ministry of Defence (Sbri (

    (b) and )c). Do not arise. (b) A provision of Rs. 2.5 lakhs hos been made in the budget for 1964-65. ~~ ~~ ~~ IlI'R 'I'll!:"( ~ ~~ ~ ~ : 'PIT . .,-n ~~ ~ ~ lfm:vf ll'iir ¥'IT (;r. ) ;rr iT fq; 'f.T ~ f'f:

    ~ llft ~ ~~~ Correspondents of the A.I.R. ~~ of.! '.ft' ~ ,,:T ;fG"f 9r:;0- r Shri Mahesh Dutta Misra: 1111111. ~ Shri Parashar: ,r:; 0 ~ i!'rc<:: l{ij;'f.fF ~ of.! LShri J. P. Jyotishi: ' t( iis 'n ~ ~ ~ ;;nm Will the Minister of Information and Broadcasting be pleased to state:

    'll{ ~ ~ q'lW'fl.l if \JIl-q.,ft (a) the number of correspondents and staff reporters working at pre- (Nf ~~~ ~ ~ sent in the News Services Division ~ ('F) RR'r ih:rn ~ ~ I'fTn and the Regional News Units of the l{if;frrc ~ 'liT 'tJ:' TT (';fC17: @) A.I.R.; ~ ~~ ~R ~~ TT'

    (b) the stand taken by the Indian (a) whether a plan for combining delegation? farming and fighting on our country's border is being worked out; and The Prime Minister, Mbalster of Edemal Affairs and Minister of (b) if so, the details thereof? Atomic Eaergy (Shri Jawabarlal Nehru): (a) and (b). There were in all 86 items on the adopted agenda at The Minister of Defence (Shrl Y. B. the 18th session of the U.N_ General Chavall): (a) and (b). Under the Lok Assembly. A copy ot the Agenda is Sahayak Sena scheme, farmers and placed on the Table of the House. other residents of border areas are [Placed in Library. See No. LT-2647/ given elementary military training on 64]. The Session lasted for about a purely voluntary basis in 15-day three months and there was consider- camps. The purpose of this training able discussion on many of the items. is to help the residents to organise An exhaustive report of the Indian self..ctefence. and not, as such, to Delegation on this session is under participate in actual warfare with regular units. preparation and, as in the past, print- ed copies of the report will be sup- Government have also sponsored a pIipd shortly to the Parliament Lib- civilian rifle training scheme for rary. private citizens all over India. This Re. Motion APRIL, 8, 1984 for Adjournment 9402 too is on a voluntary basis to give Shri Y. B. Chavan: I merely wanted training in the use of simple fire- to give the information that thil new. arms. report is incorrect. Shrimati Renu Chakravartt,. (Bar- rackpore): Sir, may I make a submis- 1!.OO hn. sion to you? On another occasion, in reply my calling attention notice OBITUARY REFERENCE to on the reported landing of a helicop- Mr. Speaker: I have to inform the ted in West Bengal, the Defence Minis- House of the sad demise of Shri ter pointed out that it was a complete Sarabhai Nemchand Haji, who pas- fabrication. Why can this not be de- sed away at Bulsar on the 4th April, nied on the floor of the House? Why 1964, at the age of 74. Shri Haji was can't this sensational news given by a Member of the Central Legislative the press be openly contradicted on Assembly during the years 1926 to the floor of the House in the first ins- 1930. tance? We deeply mourn the loss of this Shri Y. B. Chavan: On the first friend and I am sure the House will opportunity I have done so. join me in conveying our condolences Mr. Speaker: If there is no truth in to the bereaved family. tha t report, then no question arises for The House may kindly stand in the adjournment motion. silence for a short while to express Shri Nath Pai (Rajapur): Sir, on a its sorrow. point of order. You called upon a member to move for leave and he The Members then stood in silence moves the House for leave. It hal for a short while been opposed. Now the next inevi- table step for yOU is to find out from the House ... l!.O2 hn. Mr. Speaker: Meanwhile, if facts come to my knowledge that there is RE. MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT no foundation or truth in the report, REPORTED AMBUSH OF INDIAN BORDER then I need not wait for the Member PATROL BY PAKISTAN ARMY to ask for the leave of the House, be- cause then there would be no justifica- Mr. Speaker: I have received notice tion for an adjournment motion be- of an adjournment motion by Shri cause the news item is not true. Kamath about the reported ambush of Indian border patrol by Pakistan Shri Nath Pal: I am in your hands, army near Moel village on the cease- Sir, but I thought perhaps . fire line near Jammu. He may ask Mr. Speaker: No, it falls through. for the leave of the House. There is no question of any adjourn- Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath (Hosh- ment motion then. angabad): I under rule ... you will Shri H. N. MukerJee (Calcutta kindly pardon me for not men- Central): You have always ruled, and tioning the correct rule ... under the very rightly if I may say tlO, that requisite rule for leave of the House adjournment motions are in the to move the adjournment motion stan- nature of a censure on Government. ding in my name. This adjournment motion, I take it, The MlnJster of Defence (Shri Y. B. was based on certain information Chavan) 1'ose- received from whatever sources it mgiht be, and the information was Mr. Speaker: Is he objecUnI to itT considered by the Member concerned Re. MotiOn CHAlll'RA 1'1, 1888 (SAlCA) fm' Ad;ot/oTT&ment 9404 serious enough to bring up an ad- Dri Y. B. Chavan: What I said is journment motion in Clrder to ccmlUre this. News has appeared in the .prea the Government. There is a repre- that Pakistani troops fired on an sentative of Government, for good Indian border patrol and killed two reason or bad reason, getting up to men near village Moel, 15 miles west say that it is based on entirely incor- ot Jammu, on the night of Thurscia7. rect information. We have a right to the 2nd April. This news is incor- find out on the basis of an examina. rect. tion of the facts in the possession of Shri Kamath and Shri Chavan before Shri Barl Vishnu Kamath: On a we come to a decision .. (Interrup- point of order, Sir. tion). Mr. Speaker: Order, order. There is Shrl Rarl Vishnu Kamath: On a one grievance at least that I might" point of clarification. express. Before calling ""pon the hon. Member to ask for leave, I must Mr. Speaker: In that case 1 will hsve that information. I informed allow a 'calling-attention notice' 10 the hon. Minister of Parliamentary that the Government might give all Affairs and he ought to have conveyed the facts .... (Interruption). this to me so that I might not have put myself in that position. But I Shrl SureJldranath Dwlvedy (Ken- was not given that information. As drapara): On a point of order, Sir. soon as ihis information was received Mr. Speaker: Order, order. If the by the hon. Minister, he ought to basis falls through, we cannot pro- have sent the infOJ'Illation to me that ceed with it .... (Interruption). it was incorrect so that I w0\11d DDt have called upon the han. Member. Shrl Rem Barua: (Gauhati): May to ask for leave. I submit...... Shrl Y. B. Chavan: I was in the MI'. Speaker: Would he not hear House to answer questions. I' ~ me? the information just now. Shri Hem Barua: You have been Shrl ·Ranp (Chittoor): Mr. Speaker,. repeating one thing, namely, that the Sir, 'incorrect' is a queer word. It .. basis has fallen through, but where not completely correct; therefore, It do you get the information from that is incorrect. Is there no basis at all the basis of this adjournment motion or is it entirely false? Was there JlO is wrong? Nobody has denied it .... such incident? We must have tlrat «Interru.ption) . cleared. Shri Surendranath Dwlved1: He Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: On a nid thot there is no basis about what point of order, Sir. I would invite Shrimati Renu Chakravartty refer- your attention to rule 60, sub-rule red. But has he said about this (1), the stage at which the Member Is 'Particular adjournment motion that called upon by the Speaker to uk the facts stated are not true and are for leave. It saY8:- without any basis? Has he stated thaU "The Speaker, it he gives con- Shrl TJ'aJi: Yes. sent under rule 56 and holds that the matter proposed to be dis- Shri BarI Vishnu KamaOI: In regard cussed is in order, shall, after to thllt. the questions and before the lilt Shri Rem Baraa: May I submit .... of business is entered upon, call the member concerned who shan Mr. Speaker: Order, order. rise in his place". 112 (Ai) LSD-3. APRIL 6, 19M. Calling· Attention 9406 to Matter 01 Urgent Public Importance ,: [Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath] I have done it.- Mr. Speaker: It he says that it Is incorrect, what shall I conclude from !'ap.d ask for leave to move the it? Can he give any further iDfor- adjournment of the House:" mation? 'l'hen, sub-.rule (2) says:- Sbri Y. B. Cbayu: No such incident objection to leave being "It took place . . . (Interruption) granted is taken, the Speaker shan request those members Mr. Speaker: No such, incident took who are in favour of leave being place. granted to rise ·in· their places". Now, 1IIe have reached. this stage. At Sui Y. B. Cbav.. : . . where this particular stage the hon. IoIim.- two men were killed. ter eets uP and says that it is incor- Mr. Speaker: Shri Sezhiyan. rect. That means, it may be exac- aerated; instead ot two, one hss been Sui Bari Vishau Kamath: He is Idlled; or, there has beeft firing and still on his legs, sir. there have been no casualties. Is he prepared to inform us that this news Shrl Y. B. Chavan: No incident took ia- false and not merely incorrect? place on 2nd April where two men "Incorrect' is a misleading word. It were killed. It is false then you may, in your dis- Shri Kari Vishnu Kamath: May be, cretion, take a decision; but if it ill 1st ~ 'PIlrtly correct, there is a basis for the adjournment motion being moved and Sui Y. B. CbaVaJl: No. I shall ask for leave of the House ... I Mr. Speaker: Then, he will give. have asked. another notice. Shri Sezhiyan. Mr. Speaker: An adjournment 1DOtion can only be discussed after the facts are admitted, proved or esta- 12.10 bra. blished. Unless the facts are admit- CALLING ATl'ENTION TO MATI'ER 1ed or proved, there·cannot be any OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE discussion on that. So far as the stage that I had called upon the han. Mem- FIRING BY CEYLON NAVAL LAUNCH ber to ask for leave is concerned, it ill GUARDS AT AN INDIAN FISHllUl BOAT at any stage that we can just stop Shrl Sezhiyan (Perambalur): I call there. These are the rulings in the the attention of the Prime Minister Bouse of Commons and I can quote to the following matter of urgent many of them. At . any stage if the public importance and I request that basis falls through, we cannot proceed he may make a statement ~ with it. Even if leave had been .ranted and we had come to know of The reported ftring by the Ceylon the facts, we could stop it there and, .... naval launch guards at aD there was no use going with it any Indian fishing boat on the further. Therefore, that cannot be 20th March, 1964. the plea. 'l'be DepltJ' Mlal8tier. I. the MIaIa- Now, he has said that it is ~ try of External Mairs (Shri DIn_ recto That means that there was no Slarb) : According to the report ambush and these two persons of ours received from the Government of u.at have died . Madras, the particulars of the inci- 8hrt Hart Vishnu Kamath: He has dent according to . the preliminary ..DOt said ..11 that. repbrt received by the Superl1"\ten- 940 1 Caning Attention. CHAl'l'R.A. 17. 1888 (SAKA) Re. Calling 940 8 __ to Matter 01 Urgent Attentton Natice Public Importance dent of Police, Ramanathapuram. iI House. Papers to be laid on the as follows:- Table. About 4:00 P.M. '>n the 20th of ~ ~ ~~ March, 1964 six fishermen who were fishing in the Sea ~~ ~~ about 20 miles north-west of 11ft "fI ~ it; am: if Q;1Ii 1IiTf"",, • the Rameswaram .hore were ~ 1fm;r tim 'IT I fired at by Ceylon· Govern- ment officials who came there ~~~ ~ ij= tt in a launch. One of the six : m fishermen, Arulanandam, re- ~~~~ ceived two bullet wounds, one in the stomach and one on the left thigh, and has been taken PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE to Rameswaram ~ A1'INUAL R~ OF NATIONAL MINERAL 2. The Government of India have DEvELoPMENT CORPORATION LIMITED, learnt of the incident with concern, NEW DELHI FOR 1962-63 AND ITS and have taken up this matter with REvIEw BY THE GOVERNMENT the Ceylon Government. The MiDiater 01 !JteeI, MlDes IIIId Heavy ~ (Shrl C. Sabra- Shri Sezb.iyan: May I know whe- maniam): I beg to l.. y on- the Table ther the fisherman were will within a copy each of the following papers: the territorial limits of Indian (i) Annual Report of the Na- waters and whether the firing tional Mineral Development was done without any provoca'.ion Corporation Limited, .New and I would like to know what steps Delhi, for the J 'ear 1962-83 have the Government taken to lodge along with the Audited Ac- a protest and get the damages, if counts and the comments' any. from the Ceylon Government ot the Comptrollt'r and· Audi- to the affected persons? tor General thereon. under sub-section (1) of Section Shrt Dinesb Sl.a&'h: I read out the 619A of the Companies Act; facts that We have received from the ~ of Madras. They are (ii) Review ,by the Government looking into the matter more care- on the working of the above fully to find out the exact location. Company. where this incident took place and whether it was within our territorial [Placed in Librarll. See No. LT- waters or not. All these facts have 2637/64]. to be ascertained first :before We can take anyt further action. RE. CALLING ATTENTION NOTICE Mr. Speaker: Papers to be laid on the Table. Shri Hem Baraa: Sir, I have given a CalMng Attentil?D notice on the as- Shrl SeU1,...: I want to know sassination of Mr. Jigme Dorji.,.. I whether any casualty hall since been have not got any information abl)ut reported. He said that one man is in that. hospital Mr. Speaker: I will send the· mfor- Mr. ~ The matter is l'ein, mation to him. He should ~ pursued. It further facta are re- his seat. . ceived, they might be given to the 9409 APRIL 6, 1964 ~ of Butanese 941 0 Prime Minister PA_'ERS LAID ON THE TABLE- mati Tarkeshwari Sinha, I beg to IllY contd. on the Table a copy of the Defence of India (Sixth Amendment) Rules. SEVEN STATEMENTS SHOWING ACTION 1964 published in Notification No. TAKEN BY GOVERNMENT ON ASSURAN- G. S. R. 477 dated the 17th March, CES, PROMISES AND UNDERTAKINGS GIVEN 1964, under section 41 of the Defence BY MINISTERS DURING VARIOUS SESSIONS India Act. 1962. rPLaced in Lib,'C1TlI. OF THIRD LOK SABRA See No. 2645/64] The Minister of Parliamentary Affairs (Shri Satya Narayan Siuha): I beg to lay on the Table the follow- ing statE-ments showing the action PRESENTATION OF PETITION taken by thl' Government on varIOus assurances, promises aiJ.d under- Shri Ranga: I beg to present a ~ tJkings pven by Ministers durint'. the fion signed by a petitioner relating to various ~ of Third Lok the Constitution (Seventeenth Amend- S"bha:- ment) Bill, 196:1, as reporle'd by the Joint Committee. (i) Sl"\.c;)wnl No. I-Seventh SCS,;W:I, 1964. lP/tleed in Lh"!l)'!I. Sec No. LT-2638/64]. 12,13 hrs, (ii) Suppl"mentary Statement No. IlL-Sixth Session, 1963. DEMANDS FOR GRANTS--Contd, IPhced ill Library. Sec No. LT -2639/64]. MINISTRY OF WonKS, HOUSING AND (iii) Supplement"ry Statement No. REHADTLIT ATION-Contd. V.-Fifth Sl'ssion, 1963. :ifr. SJ)P.akpr: We now fake up fur- rPlaeed in Librar'l See No. ther discw:sion On the Dl'mands for 1,T -2640/64j, Grants '''''ler Illp ('ontrnl of the' Min- (iv) ~ SI"tl'ment ",,0. istr:, of ',Vorks, Housing and Reha- IX.-f'oul'th . Sl's::ion, 1963. biiibtion. :1 hqurs and 50 mi!lUil's IP/·I('.'d '" Libr(/)'!j. S"" No, n'main. Shri C. K. BhnttacharY')'a LT-2b4l/G4J. to continue his sp('l'ch.

    (\') Snppiemcntary Statement No. Shri Kapur Singh (Ludhiana): XII.-Third S{'ssion, 1962-53. When is the Minister going fo re- I Plncrd in Liorary. Sec No. ply? LT-2G42/64I. Mr. Speaker: After three hours. (vi) Supplcl1)pnUry Statement No, Shri Kapur Singh: You said 3 XV.-Sl'('tilld Se"sion, 1962. hours and 50 minute. or 3 hours and IP/aced in LibrrtrJl. See No. 15 minutes, LT-2643/64]. Mr. Speaker: 3 hours and 50 (vii) Stlppkm(,,,tary Stal<'mcnt No. minutes. XVllI-First Session, 1962. [Plared in Library, See No. LT -2644/64]. 12.14 hI'S. ASSASSINA TJON OF BHUT ANESE PRIME MINISTER DEFEc'ICE Qt' INDIA (SIXTH AMENDMENT) RULES, 1964 The Prime Minister and Minister of External Affairs and Minister of Ato- Th" ~ ";'inister in the ~ mic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): try of Labaur and Employment (Shri Sir, I think, you have received sc·ve- R. K. Malviya): On behalf of Shri- 9411 ~ of CHAITRA 17 1886 (SAKA) Bhutanese Prime ' 941 2 Minister ral calling attention notices about the U.16 ~ assassination of Mr. Jigme Dor,i. . DEMANDS FOR GRAKTS-contd. Shri Hem Barua (Gauhati): That was my Calling Attention Notice. MINISTRY OF WORK';, HOUSING AND Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I do nut REHABILITA nON-Contd. know whether we profit by discussing ~ The HOUse Will now this matter. It is a matter wh,ch we ~~ ,(urther discussion and voting have h('ard with great grief and were On the Dl'mands for Grants under the atunned by it. He was not only an control of the Ministry of Works, eminent. stalesman of Bhutan but a Huusmg and Rehabilitation. friend Of ours in many ways and the Budden news has caused us great Shri C. K. Bhattacharyya may no\\' erid. I can say no more. I cunnot continue his speech. give you any mar" facts. Wi' do not Shl'j C. K. Bh.'lttacharyya (Rai- know anything marl'. We ~ g('t ganj): Today, rehabilitatiOn looms somc more facts pcrhaps but at pre- large be for" our e,'CIt. Therefore, sent t hat is all We know about it. that part of the Ministry's work oc- cupies our attention more than the lilT ~ ~ : 'fIl'1 'I1"fT 'if1- Mr. Speaker: If that is the desire. cial peace, honour and ~ shall ask the Members to stand in I may go further and say tnat this ~ fOr a short while time what Pakistan is doing is a de- (The Members then stood m slIen.ce claration of a total war on the minor- fOT a shoTt while). Ities in East Bengal. In the previous three exoduses that took place, only Demands APRIL 6, 111114 flJ1' Gran&; 9414 [Shri C. K. Bhattacliarya]. the Hindu minorities were affected, statement in the Security Council oa but this time, the Hllldus, the Chris- Marclb. 17th, on Kashmir, drew: the tiana and the Buddhists, in fact, all the attention Uf the Security Councll to ,non-Muslim minorities of Pakistan this aspect of the present clitIlcultles of are aftected and uprooted and are India, and, said: being pushed out. This is a total war, and our &rr8il\gements should be on a "Members of the Security war footin·g. That is my request to Cowu:il are even now witnesaina the hon. Minister and he may kindly the large exodus of minorities give his attention to this. from East Pakistan into Inwa. It is only with the flight, ~ of When the TiJbetans were ousted by the Christian minori ties of East the Chinese, India offered them a hos- Pakistan, that the Western cbun- pitable home. When ~ East PaldI- tries are nOW -becoming aware of tan minorities are going to be entirely the tragedy that is beinc enacted ousted by the Pakistan GovernmP.'l1t. there. A reign of terror for the India has again to olfer a hospitable minorities has been let loose in shelter' t() . them. That is ()ur duty. East Pakistan which the Govern- That is a duty which it is not merely ment of Pakistan is either unable a human obligation, but !.here is an or unwilling to controL Acts of additional obligation under which this violence, deprivation of property, should be done, for these are the peo- assault on women, etc., have be- ple wh'o fought with Us f()r the Inde- come the order of the day in East pendence of India. Pakistan. There is a daily influx of over 3,000 refugees who are In fact, East Pakistan has been a flee;ng Pakistan becaUSe of cal- fertile grollllld for producing revolu- culated persecution and contmued tionaries who fought and sacrificed insecurity as regards their lite and themselves from generation t.> genera- property. This, of course, is not a tion so that India mig'ht be fl'ee. If matter before the. Council. We the j'ails could ~ their tale, if the realise that, but India is faced Andaman Islands Cbuld reveal their with the prospect of hundreds and tale, what they did and what they thousands 'of refugees pouring into sacriflced and what their families had India from East Pakistan.. The suffered from generation and genera- Government a.nd people or India tion could be recorded, are directing their relKlurces and Then, again, theysacriflced them- energies towards meeting this tre- selves further when the question of· mendous human problem and are Independence was staked against Par- undertaking measures for rehabili- tition. They accepted that sacriflce tation and resettlement of this un- for 1lb.emselves so that India might fortunate people fteeiJig from per- have a free government aDd India secution by Pakistan. :My Govern- might be a free country. So, that ment believe that ftrst things mUst obligati'on a180 rests on us, and we came ftrst. The dimensions of the must see that that obligation is dis- problem are assuming more and charged. more &targering proportions f!'I1f!ry day and are a lIOuree \)f Only a few days back, this House grave concern to my Govern- paslll!d a resolution to the effect that mftlt.... world opinion should be made awake ·to its duty to the oppressed mlnllrltle. Thls was what our Ambanador stated of Pakistan. In fact, world opinion In the Security Council, drawinlJ' the h.s already been drawn to this matter. attention at .that world orpnlsatlon to' OUr Ambassador In Washington, Shrl the colossal tragedy that is now beIDa B, N. Cbakravarty. while making • enacted In PaldItd.. DemandS CHAlTRA 17, ~ (SAKA) 107' Grants _ 9416 . I In ~ this ~ Ambassa- session ot all that the non-KUIHm. the had got. dor Chakravarty did not o)verstate population in East· Pakistan he facts, but I should Bay that rather ~ idea was injected tn1:o their Dtiruf8 Minis- that understated them, because the when Pakistan was crested, and that·- we_ ter ~ Reha·bilitation here states idea is bearing :fruit now, and the are be1Jqf the influx from Pakistan is ot the result that these people the order of 5000 per day, whereas thrown out. figure given in Ambassador Chakra- is mer 3000 per day. wish to repeat that these minOTf- varty'S statement I tbe he had not the latest figures ties in Pakistan are now beyond Perhaps, outIa.... him, and ~ was why he haa pale of law, they are virtual with of the given a lower ftrure. and, as r find from the report by the West Bengal and statement sent The MiRlster 01 Works, 1IoDSiD« 1:0 the Centrlll Govern- . (Sbi1 Mehr ChaDd Government Rehabilitation ment, published in the newspapers han. friend is quite KhI.llDll): My this morning, they are !n the position right. . there. of slaves. No one can stay who These are the prOUd people C. K. 8hattacharyya: . In any How Shri brought independence to India. case of the East Pakistan 'Case, the expect that they can stay there is already before the can we minorities these persecutions and suppres- Council, and if they want, under even Security sil)n, when the honour of not may take cognisance of it. we they women is safe? That position ~ to . I am have to consider now, and We When I deal with this aspect, the with. suitable measures to meet remin'CIed of a talk 1II1at I had take situation. Gandhiji while Ite was in Noakhali. people were fleeing Noakhali The I feel this is a challenge by Pakil- oppression. I met Gandhiji at pro- under tan thrown to humanity. In all and we had a talk on this that .srirampur, priety, it shOU:!d lit! judged in of the matter. Gandhijl saia rA. IISpe'Ct way. It is not merely a questibn a land of gold. Why are the 'This is exodus, it is not merely a questiaa going out? Just ask them to people for In.dd.a to tackle. They are trans- stop this exod·us.'. I told lawe stay and gressing eM laws, including the ''Ibis exodus can be ~ .Gandhlji of humanity, and that is the position in a minute'. He asked me 'How?'. and which the which has arisen now, I said: "If you can persuade to !Ihould be faced now. leaders 01 the people here to talk the local people in the .ame language we see are In the twentieth century, in which you and Pandit Nehru befoI'e this ~ colossal traCedy enacted talking to the Hindus I)f Bihar, wi,", He us. and we are almost helpless will stop immediately:' At timeB exodus or nesses of whllt is happeni.ng. it. He was takin·g his glass mind: heard the question arises in my juice. He sank back in the of :fruit where is tbe streng1h because and gave an answer which can pillow, w:h.icb Pa.kistan. :feels that she feel that he thought it next made me -throw this cl!aUenge to humanity? to impossible. That was the situation of questions. I and the That is the question when he was In NoakhalJ, the IIirength that 'it ~ not improved. s.tlter, it believe situation has lies in the support that it recet.,.. worsened during the last 17 years. fram bas from Britain and USA., more than f!rom Briotaln. rn. fact, when pt'opaganda for Pakis- USA en in East Bengal, tan was carried Pakistan bas got umaments worth slogan was that if Paklltan was the DIIOire than. RB. 3,000 crores from USA. the majority communIty ~ established, Fifty per ceIIJIt 01 its annuM people of East Benpl would pi poll- 9417 Dem.ands APRIL 6, 1964 fOT GT:tan upheld by fund,' supplied from GSA. has created in their own territ(>fY In From tha. posltiOl: of strength, it dealing with the minorIties. feels it can throw a chalknge to humanity and do whatever it likes I do not know what is the conse- with its minorities, no matter what- quence of tJhe entire cond',]c! of whal th<:y dOlng now, but what we eVl'r th" sutrl'ring and wna\pver the are should d0 is to tell our migrutlOn reactions. ThJ<: i, why th,,}, have ~ thC'f{' to make migratlOll ccr- thrown th:s gauntipt in the fare or humanity. !I11cateos as easily available to ttle p"uplp as pos,iblp, and not to stand by any rou:in{' or oftic ial difficult 'es When I speak about the' "pp",,1 to ',d,i['h they rna\' bl' l'"t tn that we should make to Lhe world, at times I feel whether there ;hould I shall refC!' to the conference that not be an appeal to the USA itself. It WP arC' goinr: to h3\,('. I am afraid the is a tragedy in history that '3 State ,lroposal P"k:stan will put before the which gave to the world some of ~ ~ will be that each side will grea!cst humanitarians, should re- take back its populatiO'fl. That will main mute witnes"", to this colossal bp a trap into which we should not human tradegy. Not only witness- step in. It will mean that India will es; I migh.t go further and sal', Lhey have to takt' back the infilrators who have become a conniving and con- hwe been pushed out, and it will senting party to the perpetration of mean that we shall have to ask the this crime by Pakistan. Somehow, refugees who have fled tram Pak!s- they seem to be lost to the idealism tani harrat' to go back to Pakistan that brought them to exL,tcnce. If which they wil! never do. This will for a time it was revived during be a trap about which our Govern- President Kennedy's rule, it must be ment should take care from now. We fading out now, and they are sitting ~ nnt get into this trap. If there ther.. as completely helpless witness- is !lny proposal from Pakistan for a es to what Pakistan is doing. May I compromise, the first demand we (pll them that they have a respon- should make is that they must change !rlbiUty, moral and otherwise, tor their Constitution. They must not what is happening in Pakistan? I have a Constitution in which the would tell them further that they minorities wil! be in a position of have a responsibility, moral and slaves and one section of the people otherwise, to the uprooted people professing a particular religion will ..... ho are suf'l'ering und€'r the p€'rsecu- have a dominating voice all the time tion by Pakistan, and who have over the other section which does not come a,way to India. Look at the profess that religion. That demand, hell that Pakistan has ~ The the Government should make in the people ooming to DaC<'a In ordt'r to very beginning, 50 that the things could be cleared up for future discus- ~ mll!TatiOn certificates ar(, being murdered. I picked. up the reports sion. If Pakistan does not agree to that, I believe the conference should from ~ yest.erday and the dav before yesterday: two person! be disbanded the very day it meets. w'ho camp to Da('ca for h.lgl-atlon cer- +ifica1('s have bf'er murdered. An- I would requc>st th" han. Minister to othcr ~ who camp with his wire note this· in taking back those people, to Dacca and who was going to Jal- we must remember that they are our '\)alguri wit!h a ~ cprtitkal,. human treasures, and they should be 1N,q murdered in the train, 3nd there accorded treatment on that basis. An 9419 V"rlI nels CHiLTTI_\ 17, 1!lo5 (SilKA) for Grants <}4 20

    integrated scheme might be framed ance and low-cost housing, etc., which for resettling them. are equally very important subjects of this Ministry. I shall touch only one 'So fa r as the journey that is being point which I think will be impmging per/armed by the people coming from a little bit on this Ministry and a little there, I believe future historians will bit On the Ministry of External m3kl' an epic out of that. This epic Affairs, but by and large, I shall take j01L ney that they are performing, the up questions with which this Ministry crul'es of people. the masses of popula- deab. tiJ.], fleeing from the tyrannical State, is in o"der to preserve not their lives, not their ploperty-lhcy have left Tni:; IIou_,,, Ii"s been moved to its them there-but in order to preserve depth .... regardIng the WOlnen who their c:dt ural Hnd social l:ntity. That ~ c faced or are in danger of facing is the ~ th'ng that (''>mes out rrLI;c.:;talion and even worse in ~ from Wh31 is l'_appening in Pakistan, tan, Being a women myself, nQturat- and we who arlo looking at them, let io' I feel wry deeply about It. I can us deal with this proolem wIth all rc('oJlp,", the pa"ions that mark.;d Our the considf'ration that it ~ :;peeches here. Sometimes, our friends have spoken out of deep emotion in Shrinl.lti Renu Chakravarti,. (Bar- this House. I have seen the passiolJ rackpore): Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I ",us,:d HI NO:lkhnli, when I was one hegin, rna, I make a submission to or t!;o:;e who went into the villages ill you' We" are goi!lg to hilVe 3 hours Augusl, 1947, and I have seen what !!O minut,·s for this debate today. I happened in Lhose days. What I do request that the tIme may be extend- want '0 impress now upon this House ed by an hour; you have at course tll<" '5. it is no use, when we have a de- discrctioa to extend it; I say this be- ~ on this Ministry's Demands, just cause there arc two very important to relate those terrible stories, be- aspects: one is the new exodus and cause we do not want to bring fur- the the other is the old one. Then ther sufferings on those women by thert' is the question of housing and just recapturing those: stories. What w.lrks. So. we do hope that a little I would like to say is this, mar" espe- more time should be given to this. cially when the Home Ministers are going to have discussions. I hope this Now, Sir, we as we participate in conference will have some fruitful this debate, we can almost hear re- results. and that it may also result in sounding in this House the cry of the having a group of social workers. es- thousands at destitute persons, terror- pecially women, who may be permit- striken and helpless people, who are ted to go to the border areas and to coming into our country owing to the other an'Ol' where women have been atrocities which have been committed Jost,-'I11aybp they have been abducted on them in Pakistan. The\, are com- or maybe they are kept back-and ing to West Bengal in ~ possible those who are facfng difficulties. I way: by foot, by train and through remembE"r when we came to this our border stations-from Bonapole, House we heard the excellent work into Gede. into Darshan, SO,GOO have whiCh was being aone hy such a body come. trcklting over thf' hills, facing when, in West Bl'ngal, such a situation the most terrible oppression from had arisen, and it was at that time North Mymensingh, into the Garo that Shri 'Swaran Singh. used to ans- Hills, into Tripura, fleeing from the wer this quc'stion, It rna,. be that tea gardens of Sylhet, which borders such an institution or body may bE' Tripura. This is the background in set up after we have had our discus- which we are discussing thisMlnis- sions at the ministerial level with our try's demands, and it is only 'hatural Pakistan counterparts in Pakistan, that we shall this year not give much either under this Ministry or even un- time to subjects such as slum clear- der the Minister without Portfolio. ~

    [Shrimati R,enu Chakravartty] Since we do not discuss' those De- Cd ,alely towards' providing reb.';' mands, I, have raised it uncler thll , bilitation alamance to them. To Ministry's Demands. achieve this, it was considered' necessary that the present size of That is what I wish to say about the the problem sliouid not be allow- 'women whose suftering know no ed to grow indeftniteIy- bounds and whose sufterings naturally ~ an echo in every heart. Besides as if it rested UpOn us to see whether 'that, I shall also deal with the ques- it will grow indefinitely or not- tion as to why it is that, without mini- ,mising the gravity and the depth or the "and that a date-line should be breadth of the problem, such a prob- fixed after which fresh migrants Jem has arisen, and what has been should not be entitled to receive responsible for the sufferings both of relief and rehabilitation assist- the old migrants and the new migran- ance." ts. 1 am going to divide my speech into two parts: those who have come I also want to quote the blue-book before 17 years and those who are which was circulated to us by the 'cOming now and those who win be West Bengal Government in 1956: 'coming in the near future. What has been responsible fOr the facl tlJIIt "These conclusions of the Reha- even today, the West Bengal Goveln- bilitation Ministers were diseussed m!!nt has to say that 50 per cent of in the Parliament and subjected those who came to West Bengal to to criticisms before any steps had get a certain amount of rehabilitation actually been taken by the Gov- have not been rehabilitated? I would ernment after mature considera- like this House to consider not only tion." what the Minister has done but what So, they have dragged us into this and we have done. We have often felt we must think what we have done. It Dnd I myself have often felt that we further says: have not been able to explain to this House why it is that such a situation has arisen. "Such migration should not be linked up with the question of giving relief and rehabilitation Firstly, I say that there has been benefits to him. It has been sug- refusal of the Government to under- gested in some quarters that at stand the political problem which has the time of partition a sort of an been posed before the minorities in undertaking was given to the East Pakistan-the constant squeezing out Pakistan people that the Indian and the constant hatred which has Union 'would come to their rescue been sown against India. Yet, what their distress. It is not clear is OUr Government's attitude towarda in as to when such an undertaking wu this? What happened in 1957? There given and by whom." was a conference of Rehabilitation Ministers on 31st October, 1957. Let me quote: Sir, I could have read out the whole speech' of 'the Prime Minister when he introduced in this BOUie the Nehru- "It was unanimously felt that Liaquat Pact. I will just read out One the existing resources of the coun- sentence: try would have to be stretched to the utmost before the 'di8placed "So far alf the ref1qees are con·· 'persons could be rehabilitated. cerned, the Government of InctJa It was, therefore, in the interest has undertaken unlimited respoll- of the existing' displaced persona sibiUtJel, for their welfare." "that available resources be direct- That sentence is. there. Dimancu CBAlTRA. 17, 1886 94Z3 (SAKA) 94241 In 1962, during the budget debate the problem, it is wrong to say that which was taking place in the back- anybody who comes and stays in West ground of the Rajsbahi riots and when Bengal is not eligible for any relief. Berubari was on the point of beJnC 1 want this House to consider this . divided., when we were raising this My cousins, my relations are comlJw question about the people who will ~ Can I ask them to go to be coming across, Shri Mehr Chand Mana camp, whi.c:h is a hell? It was Khanna laid: that we must be care- created for 6,000 or 10,000 people who ful to see that we give assistance only I:an be eamped there. 'but 40,000 people on production of proper migration have been sent there. I cannot ask certificates and it was laid down that them to go there. That is why 75 per no migration certificate should be giv- cent of those who have come across 4!Jl to anybody who did not sign "that stay in West Bengal, whether you Jive "I will not ask for rehabilitation as- help or not. We are a poo':" people. sistance". These are the things which Our per capita income is the lowest. hurt us today. But still, WE' say, you cannot force us to ·send our relations and friends' to I know today people understand it Mana camp. They will stay ;'lIth us. much better. They appreciate the If we have one piece of bread. they sufferings of the East Pakistan refu- will share it with us. So, when our gees in West Bengal more." But I relations come across, can we not ask wlluld like that this House should also the Government, "Will you not help review its past and see what it has us, so that the children can go dOI'!e and how we hav!' shut the bor- to school? Will you not give us ders. Not only that. Let us review ~ Will you not help us that decision of the Rehabilitation in some way?" Can we not -ask that? Ministers' conference regarding the Yet, We find that the fact is that date-line. Most of us are not respon- '711 sible for it. But certainly a large part per cent remain in West Bengal. ·of the House is responsible for it. Even the majority party, the Con- According to that date-line, those who gress Party to which my friend., Shri have come across as a result of the Chaplakanta Bhattacharyya be,lon... Rajshahi and Gopalpur riots and have said openly that anybody who ~ who have come from the Beru- stays in West Bengal will not get one bari enclaves fall in that category pie of rehabilitati.on assistance. I do where no assistance can be Iliven to not take the position that you must them. So, I demand that there shoulcI stay in West Bengal nor do I t.akp thp be a revocation of that date-line and position that you cannot stay In West -all those who have suffered because Bengal. But we have made this pro- of the policy of squeezing out of mino- mise that we shall share everything rities of Pakistan must receive our that we have. Today every family in belp and assistance to the best of our West Bengal is burdened with friends abilities. and relations who are corning across and we cannot In all conscience send Even today, what il the number who them to Mana. We know that Dan- bave come acrOlS? The numbers are dakaranya will not ,be able to cope up fairly large. In 17 years, 32 lakhs with nus huge problem. With our came, out of which 28 lakhs stayed in experience of its past performance, West Bengal. Regarding the new we are not VVy confident of it. SO- exodus on 13th March, the ftgure you must help us. You must change given by! the Minister for Rehabilita- yOur decision aDd this is a polley tion in West Beneal was 47,000. On decision which \hie House must take. the 24th March, the figures had gone up to 71,000. Now it might be any- What is thi! situation in Dandak· where round about Ii lakhl. We aranya? Originally, the Cabinet Sub- should be prepared for more than :& ~ on RehabioUtation said fa or 21 lakhl. It that is the depth of 1957 that 20 lakhs of refu,ees and 2. Demands APRIL 6, 1964 for Grants

    [Shrimati R~ Chakravartty] lakhs of adivasis will be rehabilitated I{.eport.s and I tind after going to· there. In 1958, the committee reduc- Dandakaranya that everything that ed it to 2 lakhs for the time being. w:\s said in 1958-59 • til I remains true. In ]960, it was further cut down to We' pointed out that one of the main 50,000. What is the actual number and major requirements, the king-pin rehabi,itated thprc" It is 6300. Out for the success of this, will he the of that there are about ],100 in the question of water. When I was look- transit camps and work site. ThE: ing through thl' report given by the number may be a little bit this side hon. Minister I Ie:t very sad. This or that ~ I know that great diffi- QIH'ollOll of fl'h'lbilitation is raising culties ha\'c nopped up. Even today til£' teeling" emotions and sentiments there are great difficu;ti.e,. I would of th" entire nah:m. But what is there beg of the House and the Minister tr, in th,' rpport' Nothing at all. Was realise that this is II. project which is he· not pII'paring it in :he months of mC'ant mainly for agriculturists. .ranuary. February and March? We Without any thought, We arf' spnding find nothing at all in the report about to Dand"karanya everybody, whether this problem. We have a little bit they are ~ or not. Of about Dandakarany" schemf'. But course. We know that there was " there the position of watcr supply is ~ percentagc which was marked tht' main problpm. The water goes for ~ ~ their r,,- down belm.. · the slIrfacf' "ery quickly. habilitation has heen very bad. Evell WI' -aid that the Committee cOllsider- lone women and children have been ('d that 0'1 the Rvailability of water sent there. What shall they do there? for drinking as well as for irrigation So. there has been no thought. rjppends the su('cess Of the whole ~ We wert' shown tube wells Even among those who are agricul- which had been proposed to be irstaI- turists, what is the position? The Jed in the area but which had to be amount of ready agricultural land abandoned due to water strata not which can be distributed i, about being reached even after going deep 4,000 to 5,000 acres. That means, at ~ hnrd rock. Even where water the rate of ] 0 acres per family, it is struck the level of water falls some- comes to 400 fam1lies. Now, if We are times. It is apprehended that there to get another 20 lakh acres. out of would b" an arute shortage of drinking which 15 lakhs will be cultivable from water in the area. Madhya Pradesh, another 2000 can be rehabilitated. If that is the position, Thoe Deputy Minister in the Minis- what shall we do with these 40,000 try of Works, Housing and Rehabilita- people who have ('orne and many more tion (Shri P. S. Naskarl: This ~ the who are being sent there? position 0( Mana Camp?

    ~ ~ l}ave come forward Shrimati Renu Chakravartt,,: I am to help us and we are grateful to ta'king about Dandakaranya. I do not them. I have tried to cull out the know why the hon. Deputy Minister figures: Maharashtra 10,000, Champa- wants to disturb me. I will come to ran 1,000, Andhra 500 and so on. But Mana Camp also. I think we should all this will nOt. be enough for 1.60 hoth be interested in the same thing. Iakhs that have already come and 2 This is a national problem. But I am or ~ lakhs for whom we should be ~ when the ~ comes from the prf"pared. We must be prepared to Treasury Benches they wi,JI look upon receive them and not put them to the it as a petty, smalJ thing and talk in suffering to wh1ch we have put the that manner. people in Mana. Thanks to the Esti- mates Committee. I wa. looking I was, Sir, on the question of water through our Estimates Committee in these places. We went to Umarkote. 9427 CHAITRA 17, IB86 (SAKA)

    There was a sugge5tion for a new no communication system. wanted -dam.. That was, in 1958. Today we to go there in order to distribute are In 1964. Has that dam come up? some clothes to the refugees who were In Paralkote we were told that some gomg there. I was told that it would ·other irrigation scheme was coming be difficult unless the Government up. Has it come up? Even in regard gave me a transport, because they to tube wl'lls, We want to know how were dispersed there all over the !-dr those tube wells have been able place . . to reach the surface of water. The Minister of Works, Housing and Rehabilitation (Shri Mehr Chand I have read about Mana Camp. I Khanna): Who told you that? h0"f not been there. But many peo- pi" have ::one to Mana Camp and 1 do S:iI'imati Renu Chakravartty: if you n'ot ~ what they S1Y about it. I know that today it is 107 degrees can help I will be very thankful. 'We have collected a lot of clothes for the tilGC in the shade. Nothing has changed between 1958 and 1964. Those refugees. I know it is a very very long route from Mana, then to Konda- barracks 8]'f' ,,(ill (he]'e. Water is gaon, ~ to Paralkote, Umarkote and ,rarc,. the,.". W p Bengalis com" from a lanj of wat,'r. Unless we bathe on to Malkangiri. It is a very very dail:' and use a lot of water we can- wide-spread Brea. There is no com- not live. Madhya Pradesh is good munication system. The roads arc not .'ret ·enough to give U,; a littie shelter, but huilt. So, there is no water, no our so1l1 fecls parched. Even for irrigBtion facilities and there is no drinking water ther" is great niffi- goou communication system. ~ What about (reatment? There Then there is the question of deve- is ~ little arrangement for treat- men!. 1\;s only now, after Shri lopment of industries. I' am happy N",k:H went there, that a littl .. bit is lint at least in Koraput we will be "being done in that respecl. We have h:wing the MIG factory. I am glad got to do these things nnd we cannot. that thc Railways are cominr, up and Rllow the life of hell to l'ontinu(' in We' wil1 be able ta enrage more and more people there. OthNwise, I feel ManrL frightened 3.S to what will be the TherC' arC' two other transit camps. future or those persons. 'They should have come up parlier. One' i· ":lllcd the Kurun Camp. Even Above 3.1:, I appeal to thi,; House when w" went there we were t.old to make the Dandakaranya Authority 'Ihat this camp would be coming up. powerfUl enough so that the Chainnan It has only just been finished. has absolutely emergency powers to do what he wants. so that he will be My point is, is Dandakaranya cap- directly answerable and there will be 'able of answer;,ng the problem? Is it no dual authority. 'capab!e of taking in and rehabilitating these thousands of unfortunate peo-' Then I ('orne to the question of pIp? I have gon(' into the question Wesl Bengal. Rehabilitation in West very carefully. My opinion is, with Bengal i; one long story of pain and the rate at which we are progrc"ing, frustration, I know my hon. friend, I\';th the r:'te at which we ~ reclaim- tn> Minister, will be ~ with me JOg lnnd, with the rate at wh;"h we as he usually is in every debate. ar"

    There is the enbre question at Let Us take up the question of squatters in private houses. I do not squatters colonies. Figures h3ve been want to trouble the han. Minister with given about regu'ari"ation. TIley say the amount of letters I have written. that l4S ha,,:, ~ llcceptcd for regu- For the 10.;t three ,'ears I hove been l:p"!s;,)lir)D ~ .-1 h':1\'e been ~ f.:1r writing innumerable letters. Th('re r,,,ulcirised. B:·· Dec('mbcr, ~ they are squatters in pcivate hou3cs, m S3y thf'y will fully Tf'gularise 12G and Mus:im houses and in Hindu houses. partially 80. This will 'oak like very We are told that un :ess they go to the ,ood ~ hayi!' g b"cn made ;n Competent Authority', Court and get the malt,'r of rcgu1arisati,.,n. But what a cerWlole they will nol be permff- is tin' rp"ulariC:l1ion ~ bas bCL'11 ted to take "ny r"h:lb'li(iltion. To me. done" Arpan patras have b('en given Sir. c ['Icfugee is a refugee. a man who which have no ~~ validity Even needs ,h,](,·r. Th" house-owner mu;t tlwt ha; not be en giYen for all. The get back h:s house. Tili" is the posi- lanr! ha, not bN'n properly plotted tioel. I would bcr( or the han. Mini,,- out. The ~ nf cc,mpensatilJn ter to take a policy decision in thice has been so calculated that thn' are ~~ F.vpn in case:. where there un: b1e 10 pay. The compensa'.ion has are C.A. Court', cf'rtiticntc-I have got been cum'.llative with the result that ~ with me-the West Bmgal they are unable to pay. In Baranagar, Govr'rIlmcnt says that land acquisition which is my constj,tuency, On the cannot be- m8de. When I ask why the Barrarkpore Trunk ~ arc hundreds lund acquisition cannot '''' made. J of squatters. In the Ma'ik colony sometimes get ~ letter from the Min- people hav" been residing there since ister saycng that they cannot agree 1949 and still no development bas han:, rai:;;ng of th" Jand ceil- taken place there. Now, development mg. In these areas you cannot has come under a separate cntegory. get 'and at the ceiling fixed. There- There the progress is not very eDod fore. please rai'e the limit so that even according to the figures. Pro- we may be ablp to get the land. The gres, in the case of Of'v(':opment Ministpr say, that money is not the fhows that it is only 24 urban ~ problem. If money is not th0 problC'm 151 total taken for nevclopmcnt. Out let llS ~ ~ ~ and ~ P10 or J 05 squatte;'s' colonies on' " f> lann. Let liS solve thi, TPsiduary squatters' colonies have been taken p'ob'pm of those who are in ~ for development. Even in Malik colonies. Let ~ not stand on techni- colony I find that ,i.nce 1949 the deve- calities. lopment plan ha., been prepared by ~ 943 1 CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for Gmnts 9432 the West Bengal Government, the to them? Take the Titagarh Mahila same has already been sent to the camp, on which I wrote a Jetter. Our Ministry of Rehabilitation for approval Minister forcibly closed down all re- and the approval was given in Nov- habilitation In West Bengal. He said ember, 1961 but I regret to say that one ~ day that all camps would up LI1 now no development work has be clcscc1; we arc not going to have been t"-ken up there-water, electri- anything more to do with it; you can city, bV:ltOI'Y urrangcmcnt, nothing. take six months to go to Dandaka- It is hell if you were to go to that ranya. So, some people took those ~ These ~ colonies are six months to go to Dandakaranya and festering sores. tho. e miserable people are still wait- ing in the transit camps; some Of them were rehab;.litated and some are still 13.00 brs. in the transit camps,

    [MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER in the Chair] We WefL' told that the lone women's camp, which are permanent liabilities, I would like tl1e hon. Minkter to have been given over to the Educa- see what the han. Minister of West tion Departmen t. So, I - -, wrote a Bengill had to say about Balyganj Jetter to Dr. Shrima lj on the 7th squatter's colony. She say,;, out of August 1962 and I received a reply 58 ~ colonies only 11 have from him in August 1963-iust a little been declared to have been legalised over a year for a letter to be ans- and out of that only in 6 some work ,,:ered. Prior tD that, J received an ~~ ~ Tilen .shf' s.J.ys "in ~ from the West Bengal Govern- this matter I myself have become ment. Do you know what thpy said? imp:,titnt". If the Minister her- They arc '.till living in tents. Now self ~ impati('nt then you for fifteen years they have been liv- cun ~~ nur p1i,ght. We have ing. whether it ;(; raining heavily or to ~ v.. ~ haVl' no ~ it is very hot, 5, 6 or 7 h\lnd'ed to- excepting that of persuasion Rnd f!pthpr ~ (pnts. Most of them are ~ a little quarrel Witll till' ~ livin" in barracks. Do you know Mini,ter; beyond that, we hm'c no thnt th,,\· have no mr'OTIS Of liveli- powers. So, how impatient we have hood? They are getting very small to become? Think of the despf'ration ration.e, hard!\' anything to talk about. of those peo!';" who h

    lShrimati Renu Chakravartty] rary, stii! people weep. What about tions because I did not like the way the condition of these poor lone that the hon. Minister tried to poise women who have lost their husbands the Assam Government versus the and others permanently? When they member who happen» to come from came here after partition, their child- West Bengal, knowing the history of ren were young but noW they have the strained relations that took place . grown up into boys and girls; yet, no between Bengalis and Assamese at arrangement has been made for their one peri·od. But I would urge that rehabilitation. There is no plot for the 80.000 people who have come from them. because' thl're is no acquisitIOn North Mimcnsing into Garo Hills, they or land. and acquisition of land can- arc part of the Indian nation. they are not be made because you rclue to as much part of Assam as they are raise the ceiling on land. This is the of Bengal.·' 1 know they arc . very position. interior area,. there are diffie-ulties in opening up communications, but they One more wOl'd and I will finish. must be kept there, they must be hf'lp- and that is on the questio:1 of loans. "d, I would also urge that some sort Ag-ain and again, we have raised this of authority be set UP. because 80,000 question. Loan; have 'been given in is not a small numbcr, I read some- smaL bits, driblets, in the earlier where that 1,000 peoplc have. been period later on, they are given toge- sent to Dandakaranya; I say it is a ther, And ",hat is th£' house-building wroClI'( thing to send them there, ~ The maximum for the last five years 'has been RS.,l.250 For contri- buto"y loans. the limit has been a little Shri Mehr Chand Khanlla: We have higher, Th;, is thf' pitiab'e plight of sent nobody from Garo Hi, I, to Danda- the> E',st P"kist'ln refllgees who have ltaranya. left ever,·thin,C: h"hind in Pakistan. We havI' got nn compensation, We are not ;'"ising this question al'"ain and agoin just for fun, , We hav£, got no Shrimati Rcnu Chakravartly: I saw ~ 31: our prDperties were ~ picture-s ()f ~ Ollf left behind, Either, give Us compen- in papers. satioCl from the coft'ers of the Govern- ment or v(lU ~ bC' prepnn'd to write oil' these loans, We have oeen Shri Mt"hr C!Ja.d Khannr: Thut is pursuing it and w(' have been receiv- nol correct, ing letters, In last. December I have rec"ived a letter from the hon. Minis- tpr ~ ng that "we Gre considering it. WE' w;u;t to make an announcement Shrimati Rcnu Chakravartiy: I am won". But I read in the' papers that ~ because I do not want that. Be- again wE' are waiting for an eva!ua- r.a use they are accustomed to the p.n- tion of the depth of the problem, of vironmcnls of the' hills. beautiful the extC'1t of the financial implica- luscious background of Assam, Cachar tions. Po'si!;>I:;. the Minu-ter may and East Mirnensing area. I would have a very good announcement t.o like them to continue to be there wi'h make that WP 8rf' now writing of!' all their hills and surroundings, With all the loans given to the refugees all the sympathy of the Assam Gov- coming from East Pakistan.. This is ernment. Assamf'se and Bengalis and one of the immedj,ate thinr;s that you the people of the entire nation we will have ~ do. shOUld set up an authority there so that these interior places. from which Regarding Assam and Garo Hills. I Delhi is far away, are developed by "do not want to raise any oth!'r ques- that independent authority. '9435 Demands CHAITRA 17, 1686 (SAKA) frrr Grants 9436

    Lastly I would urge that there Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: We should be a separate Ministry of could not touch Upon the question of Rehabilitation. The closing down of slum clearance and low cost hous- the> Ministry was a wrong thing and ing. What can we do? I think if the Minister, Shri Khanna, has thF vision and the broadness of Shrl Hari Vishnu Kamath: You may mind, he will admit the mistake of extend it by an hour. having forcibly closed down the Min- istry and he will admit that it is Mr. Deputy-Speaker: What does the necessary to have a separate Minis- Government spokesman say? try of Rehabilitation together with a ~ a non-official b-ody, to help Some Ron. Members: Agreed. him in order to make this problem a rcally national problem, not a pro- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: will call blem with petty outlook but a pro- h:m at 4 o'clock. blem which will be able to solve this huge human SUffering which is Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: At torhy in the throes of agony, the 4.30. looking aft!'r of which at present is -partly under the External Affairs Mr. lleputy-Speaker: How long will the han. Minister take? M'n'slry. partly under the Ministry of Rehabilitation and, may be. partly Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: At least under the Minister without Portfolio, an hour if not more. so that. we can go to the help and succour of thosp hundreds of unfortu- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The Minister nate ,'sters and mothers of ours, who, will be called at 4 o'clock. 8hri we hear. are being molested when Naskar. they try to come here from Pakistan and for whom We are not able to do anything. Shri P. S. Naskar: Mr. Deputy- Speaker, Sir, from Saturday til! now all the han. Members who spoke in These are some of the concrete pro- this debate on the Demands of my posals which I want this House to Ministry spoke for 99 per cent of the consider. time on the question of the new influx of migrants from East Pakistan and Shri Rarl Vishnu Kamath: When the action taken by Government to do you ~ to call the han. Min- give relief and rehabilitation to these ister for reply? unfortunate people. Due to commu- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: At 3 o'clock. nal disturbances in East Pakistan in January 1964 the minority community Shri Rari Vishnu Kamath: An han. felt insecure in East Pakistan. As a colleague made a request that the result of that the minority commu- time may be extended and the nity started migr"ting into India. Speaker said. if I heard him aright, that he would consider it favourably. The migrants came into three 'I'he debate may be extended by one States, that is, West Bengal, Assam bour. It is up to you. He had and Tripura, but most of the migrants agreed I believe. came to West Bengal. Up to date Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The time over two lakh migrants have come table is ...... into India from East Pakistan. About 1,33,000 persons have so far come into Shrl Rari Vishnu Kamath: We can West Bengal, about 85,000 in Assam 'sit longer tomorrow or the day after. and about 22,000 into Tripura. The Government of India relaxed the An Ron. Member: It can be ad- rules regarding the issue of migra- ~ tion certificates and I am told that 112(Ai) LSD-4. for Grants 9437 Demands APRIL 6, 1964 [Shri P. S. Naskar] there is no difficulty in getting a mi- Some hon. Members including gration certificate in Dacca. Not only Shrimati Renu Chakravartty who that, th(' ~ of India has spoke just now made comments about also accepted giving relief and reha- the conditions prevailing at the Mana bilitation not only to people who are transit centre at Ralpur. I have been coming with migration certificates but to that place several times in the last also to those wIn are coming without two months. I can make a categorical documents. But the peopie who come statement in this House that every- without migration cNtificates or with- thing that is humanly possible to out any travel documents should be make arrangements for recelvmg certified by the respective State Gov- thousands of people is being done in ernments as having come on Or after the shortest possible time. the 1st January, 1964. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty spoke As regards the question of relief about the water difficulty. It is a arrangements that have been made by fact that these people are coming the Government of India, as migrants from the land of rivers. But in Mana come to West Bengal at different we have made all possible arrange- points of the border. the West Bengal ments to give drinking water. Not Government have arranged to receive only that, water is there in a big them. As the We,t Bengal Govern- tank at Kurud for bathing purposes. ment says that there is no scope for I have not heard of any instance their rehabilitation in West Bengal, where even a child has ~ of thirst they are taken outside the State. For for want of water. the present we are taking them to the Mana transit centre at Raipur. They ShrlmaU Renu Chakravartty: I are inoculated and vaccinated at the hope, not. border. As you know, these unfor- tunate people are coming without any Shri P. S. Naskar: I have not heard. belongings, sometimes with very little have been there so many times. clothes on. Clothes are given to I have checked. I have gone from them at the border; utensils are given; camp to camp, from family to family mats are given; all other facilities and have enquired even of doctors. are given. Then they are taken by a whether anybody died of thirst. But special train to the transit camp at there was no report of any death Mana, Raipur. from thirst.

    The same thing is in Assam. The Dr. Ranen Sen (Calcutta East): migrants who have come there num- What a wonderful argument you are· ber about 85,000. My senior colleague givingl recently visited Garo Hills and had a Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: No- discussion with the Assam Govern- body has said that they are dying of ment about relief and rehabilitation thirst. of those unfortunate people. Certain arrangements have been made and Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Why are my senior colleague will give the you agitated? We never interrupted. details. We are quite satisfied with Let him speak. He also comes from the arrangements made by the Assam Bengal. Government. Shri Basumatari (Goalpara): They As regards Tripura, people are know it. looked after there. But it has been decided that people who come to Tri- Shri r, S, Naskar: These people are pura will be taken out of Tripura to taken to Mana which is a temporarT camps in Bihar. transit centre. Shrimati Chak- . 9439 Dem.un.d.. ' CHAITHA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for ~ ravnrtty thinks that these thou- rations. Small, little shops have been 81nds of people who are being taken opened by the refugees themselves. to ~ tran..,it centre are meant for Certain people think that if these Dandakaranya. I want to tell her storics arc carried that Mana is horri- that it is not so. We want to usc this ble and all that, these unfortunate Mana transit camp for receiving the people will go back to West BengaL people, screening them, categorising It that is the reason why certain peo- them and not only for sending them ple are saying this, I would beg 01 to the rehabilitation sites in Danda- them not to do so in the best interest karanya but also various other reha- of these unfortunate people. Let bilitation sites in different States that them not be victims of any party that have been very kind enough to some people want them to be. accommodate these unfortunate peo- ple. Shrimati Renu Cltakravartty: Ask Jngantar not to do it. Shri P. S. Naskar: It is a fact that Recently I heard and I also read in f'verything that is best could not be some newspapers that conditions at done at the Mana transit camp. I Mana are horrible, that cholera has admit that. broken out and all that. On hearing this news I flew to Nagpur, overnight, Shrimatl Renu Chakravartty: went by car to Raipur, driving the Seeond best. whole night, and reached there early m the morning. I took a specialist Shri P. S. Naskar: But what has from the Health Ministry here. That been done is remarkable, Through specialist investigated each case of you, Sir, I want to pay tribute to the death as also the sanitary conditions officials, the doctors of the Dandakar- there. He was of the opinion that it any3 Development Authority and the was not a case of cholera but of local officials of the Madhya Pra- gastro-enteritis. The reason is that desh Government at Raipur for the these unfortunate people had to pass medical assistance and other help through the affected area in East that the Madhya Pradesh Gov- Pakistan and for want of food and ernment has given. I want to praise water their physical condition was the services of the Dandakaranya luch that they were dehydrated and Development Authority. They are were suffering from mal-nutrition, working round the clock. From II So, they came in a very deplorable worker to the highest officer, every- condition and here they are having one is working round the clock at the effect of that. But there are not Mana transit camp to give of the very many cases of death from gastro_ best that he can. enteritis and it is quite natural under such circumstances. I can assure the Now, Sir, some Members have men- HOuse that every possible medical tioned about what arrangements have arrangement has been made and pre- been made or will be made about caution has been taken. For people theSe people who are staying behind suffering from mal-nutrition, a nutri- in West Bengal. We had a discussion tion centre has been opened to give with the Chief Minister of West them multi-vitamin tablets and all Bengal. The refugee problem is • sorts of medicines. That has been national problem and it is not a pro- arranged. Every possible care is blem for West Bengal only. It is taken to see that water is not pollut- gratifying to know that the various ed Bnd enough chlorine is added to State Governments have come for- drinking'·water. I am giving these ward to take these unfortunate dis- details just to remove from the hon, placed persons and rehabilitate them Members' minds any idea that they In their respective States. So far. may have that conditions in Mana upto HllI8, about 32 lakhs of refugees camp are horrible. People are given came in West Bengal-the refugee. 9441 Demand8 APRIL 6, 1964 fOT Grants 9447.

    [Shri P. S. Naskar] Shrl P. S. Naskar: What makes you who have been settled in West Ben- think that any rehabilitation outside gal. The density of population in West Bengal is in Dandakaranya only, We,t B('ngal is very high. The hon. We never say that. We never say that Ivlembers know it. Mrs. Renu the purpose of moving them to vari- Chakra\'arttv knows it. The paucity ous transit camps is only for Danda- of bnd is ,{Iso there in West Bengal. karanya. It is not so. It is, therefore, not possible to reha- bilitate these new migrants in West Shrimati Renu Cbakravartty: Where Bengal alone. Upto March 31, 1964, will these unfortunate people go? about 1,33,000 persons have crossed th," borders and come into West Ben- Shri P. S. Naskar: Various State gal. Out of these, about 57,000 per- Governments are having rehabilita- sons have so far been taken out of tIOn schemes. I agree that Danda- West ~ to the various transit k a Pradesh Gov- ernments are releasing more fallow Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Give land to the Dandakaranya Authority, them stipends.

    Shri P. S. Naskar: The West Ben- About the irrigation scheme that gal Government is of the opinion that Mrs. Renu Chakravartty mentioned, for the D.P. students more educational we have asked the Dandakaranya Au- institutions should be established and thority to give the top-most priority wherever necessary assistance should for the implementation of this irriga- be given to the students. The pres- tion scheme, big or small. sure on the hospitals is also increas- ing and, therefore, some arrangements During the discussion on Saturday, should be made to augment the capa- some hon. Members mentioned that city of the existing hospitals. They the interests of the tribals in the Dan- feel that more medical facilities and dakaralJya area are not being pro- sanitary facilities should be given to perly safeguarded. But the fact is not them. It will also be necessary to set so. The interests of the ~ in the up industries in West Bengal to absorb Dandakaranya area are well-protect- those who will not move out of W<'st ed. I will give you a few facts. I will Bengal. But the fact remains that tell you what is being done for the the question of giving employment to landless tribals who are resettled in the eJuc":,l'd middle-class people is very diffkult in West Bengal. As it the Dandakaranya area. In the is today, there is not much sC!:ope to Dandakaranaya area, ~ medi- give pmpJoyment to the educated cal facility is given to the D. P. reset- middle-class people. tlers there is also giVen to the tribal people of the area. Not only that. 25 Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Can per cent of the land that is reclaimed :you give in Dandakaranya? in Dandakaranya is eannarked or Demands 9443 CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for Grants 9444

    given ,to the landless tribals of I do not want to take much time of the area and it is the State the House. I only want (0 say one Government that distributes. On top thing more. I am very grateful to this at it, every Adivasi family ip given hon. House for so much interest that Hs. 1300 as an outright grant ,for the has been shown about tl''?se unIurtu- house building and agricultLlral pur- nate people Who are co.l:illg due to poses. Again, about Rs. 200 and Rs. reasons beyond their control and I am 500 arc given for bundir:g and for quite sure that this h::m. House will other amenities. All these facilities give advice and const:uctive sugges- are given to the tribal families as an tions to the Government and the Gov- outright grant. I am lJliite sure that ernment will give due consideration the interests of the trib313 in the Dan- to alI of them. Last or an, I would dakaranaya area are well :ooked after request the friends opposite that let by the Dandakaranaya ~ us not bring politics ;n t!lis problem of relief and rehabilitDtlOn of these Now, a little while ago, some men- unfortunate brothers an.:! sisters. tion has been made, """n by Mrs. Reau Chakravartty, ~ the develop- Shri P. R. Chakraverti: (Dhanbad); ment work has not ~ done in West I want to put one question. Beng"!. She mentionc'd about the squatters colony and ail t:,at. All that Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Not now. You foems a part of the rni..!uaJ'y work to can ask him in the end. be done in West Beng"1 Thir Minis- Shri P. R. Chakraverti: Only one t7 did not ever shut ~ eyes to that. We never ":lid that e'lerything that ~ What special relief benefits will be made available to the refugees has to be done so far 33 tl':e rehabili- tation work in West Bengal is con- who are now staying behind in West cernl'd has bel'n done. We did not say Bengal? that at any time. Roundabout 1960- 61, about the residuary work, in the Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Sir, I had various States, in the eastprn zone, a discussion with the Chief Minister it was all worked out. The funds al- of West Bengal this rr.o,· .. h1g-1 have lottl?d to the various St.te Govern- had a discussion with him before- ments and the departments of the va- and also with the Rehabilitation Mi- rious State Governments had been nister of West Bengal. Pu" the rea- assessed. In 1960-61, H.e residuary sons advanced by my colleague, the work that had yet to be done in West West Bengal Government is of the Bengal had been asse3S

    [Shri Mohammed Elialj men of profession who will not find they were treated in Pakistan. Th_ anything in Dandaltaranaya? relugees are all tribal people. About 42,OO{) Of them are Christians while the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He will reply rest ot them are followers o! primitive in the end. rehgion and also other religionL These tribals comprise of the Dalu.s. Shri P. S. Naskar: They will look the Garos, the Bonais and the Koches. alter themselves. They are very simple people. They told us of the miseries that they were Shri Basumatari: At the outset, I subjected to in Pakistan. They told us must thank the hon. Minister in charge that not only were their properties of reliet alld rehabilitation, who visit- looted, but even their children were ed our State also the other day and treated very shabbily. Not only were gave all facilities and also promised the properties looted and they were all facilities to the State Government treated very badly at this time, but to do relief work 1n the State. that was the nature of thp treatment meted out to them ever since Pakis- tan'!: inception. So, it was very diffi- I had also t!1e privilege or accom- cult for them to ~ on in Pakistan. panying the Christian missionanes from America and other countries who had corne to visit Garo Hills along with They told uS that unless the Consti- one missionary from our own Slate. tution of Pakistan was amended, peo- The purpose of the visit was (0 ar- ple belonging to other religions could range for rplief and rehabilitation in not remain there. They openly say the Garo Hills. It is quito well known that "nless a person converts himself outside India that the Lddstanis wen' to I;:lam. he cannot get all these faci- not commill;ng atrocities only against lities such as service uncleI' the Gov- the Hindus but ihpy were committing ernmen t and so on. atrocities against the Christians, Bud- ~ and people of other religious They also told us what a miserable denominations as well. In view of this time thev had when the harvest time propaganda, some of them had come used to ·come. It was very difficult from America others Crom England, for them to retain the fruits of the just to see things for themselves. harvest, because the Muslims would enter their housf', take the paddy, take I am glad that they collected toge- the cattle and take away all their be- the:- all the Christians belonging to longings. This was how their property different denominations and came to was looted for a long time since tlu> conclusion that they should help Pakistan's inception. I would suggest these unfortunate refugees in variou9 that this question must be taken up in ways. At the same time, they were the UNO or in other quarters, that also conscious of the fact that they Pakistan should change its Constitu- Ihould not take any advantage of their tion. Unless their Constitution is misery and try to convert them. There- changed, there Is no use ot talking fore, they came to the conclusion in of secularism here. There is no use their conference that any help given of talking of secularism in our coun- from any quarter should go through try unless it is followed in other coun- the National Christian Council to the tries. We should not allow this state Government. of aft'airs where these minorities are treated in this fashion.

    After visiting these refugees camp about nine or twelve in number, we They narrated to us the storiel of had talk with the refugees IllI to how how In their presence, mothers ..... 9447 DemaRds CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for Grants 9448

    molested, women were molested, and provide all the relief to these refugeea 8i&ters were molested. Not only did as soon as they come, Yet they are these things happen at the time of the doing all that is possible. I must thank riots in Pakistan, but while they were our Government of Assam that they fleeing Pakistan and they were on the have constituted many relief com- road, all their ,belongings were taken mittees, and women's committees and away from them. I have seen some other committees to help these refu- of them with my own eyes. They had gees with clothes, food and other 110 clothes and they had no belongings. things, If these refugees have been "nley were surprised at the shelter that shifted from one camp to another, it they got from India. They told us is because of this reason, In the Garo that they did not expect that such Hills, about 85,000 persons have come nice help could be obtained from the from Pakistan and they are all flocked Government here, but when they found together in different camps, The rO'lds here the kind help and the kind treat- leading to these camps are very bad. ment !rom the Government of Assam Government thought that it might not or from other officers, they were very be possible to do relief work there Jflad. during the monsoon. So, these refu- gees have been shifted to Matia, which ~ about 135 miles from the Garo Hills, This problem of the refugees is not the Dalu and other camps. I had been merely a refugee problem but it is a to this camp also, I find that the land humanitarian problem, and, therefore. available there is very ,maiL Al- we must tackle this problem as a hu- though ~ people are very hefty manitarian spirit. I am very glad and aTe having a fine health, yet, they that Parliament has takcn it up as a cannot take to cultivation, At the same national problem and not II problem time, I find that they have, brought which is confined only to West Bengal thatches and they have' ("lit the bam- and Assam. If, apart from the other boos themselves and constructed their Statl's, West Bengal and Assam are own houses within a few days and also tackling this problem, it is because they are ~ as if they nrc in their they think it their dnty to help homes, I am very glad to see them them, because most of the tribals quite homely there, But (,'lough land and most at the Bengalis have is not available there to he given to the same culture and manners as them for cultivation. So, the problem the people residing in their own is to see that lanc:i. arE" made available States. But actually, it is not to them outside, merely a question of the same culture and manners, but it is a qu('stion con- cerning the whole of India. I am very Shrimatl Renu Chakravartty was glad that this House has treated it as suggesting that these tribals should a national problem and our Govern- not be taken outside Assam. I had ment are also trying to solve the also suggested to my Chief Minister problem in that light. that they should not be taken out of Assam, The Chief Minister discussed I have listened to the speech made the matter with the members of the by my hon. friend Shrimati Renu District Council of the Garo Hills, and 'Chakravartty, and she had criticised they are also willing to accommo- certain things. I would submit that date those people there. So, I would this is not the time for eriticislng the request the han, Minister concerned Ministry of finding fault with the to find out lands in the Garo Hills and Ministry' in regard to this matter. It is also outside the Garo Hills, that is the a very difficult problem which they plains area of Assam; by 'plains' area, are facing, and it is a humanitarian I mean the tribal 'plains' area, I have problem which they are tackling. It b been telling nil the time that there ia not possible for them straightway to no land outside, except the plaina area 9449 Demands APlUL 6, 1964 for Grants

    [Shri Basumatari] w,hich is att':"acting the immigrants so molestation of women and driving oul far from Pakistan, of the m.norities, in spite of our civi- He:e, I must point out that Assam lised behaviour, after all these atroci- is not merely facing this refugee pro- ties it is not enough to say we will blem, but is facing from time to time consider about it. ,We must consider' the problem of land invasion by infil- how to solve the p:oblems that are· trants. If the problem of land inva- there, sion by the Muslim infiltrants We should not be misled by them. from Pakistan is added on to Not only this time, but every time we this refugee problem now with the talk of the eviction of the infiltrators exodus of those unfortunate people Bhutto says that India is acting bru: who have mIgrated, you can well ima tally, driving out the Indian Muslims. gine what an amount of ~ ~ would be f&cing. Ass:lm is a very poor While partition took place-you were and sm3li State, and it is not at all also in the Con:tituent ~ possible for that State to look after we opposed the grouping because we these refugees, unless the Centre also knew the attitude of Ollr !lluslrm bre- come forw3rd to help them. Th,'re- thren. N"w it has beCl,mC' worse than. fore, I would request that the Cent:'e group;ng. I ha',e given the H.)u,e de- should come forward to provide what- bils of the Muslim pc.'pulalion in ever assistance is needed to rehabili- Assam many a time. In 1911 it was tate tht'm. I am ve:'y glad that my only 5,21,471, but in 196, it was 27,5';, Chief Ministec told me that while our ~ You can well imagir>e how this Minister concf'rnpd at the Centre vis't- could have happened. I would not ed that area, he was also very symp3- have said this, but I cannot help the:ic towards the tribals, in regard speaking fro'n my hcact. We know to this matter. how they behaved during the time of Now, the very big question is that Chinese attack, and d'lring the inci- there is an apprehension about the re- dent of thc holi relic theft in Kash- sult of the discussions between the mir, It is a very sad thing. I have Home Ministers of Pakistan and India. been telling the House abollt it all the Only this moening, I had put a ques- time, whenever I have had occ:lsion, tion to OUr Prime ~ about the and I do not want to repeat it now, statement made by the Parliamentary After all this brutal behaviour on the Secretary to the Minister of External part of ~ we arc told that Affairs of Pakistan in answer they are helpless, I req uest the House to a question put in the National not to minimise the ~ in such a Assembly of Pakistan; where Parlia- way, because nobody can cite an exa- mentary ~ had categorioally mple of brutal behaviour on the part stated that 'Our first and foremost of the Indian people towards the mino- question is to stop the eviction of the rities, Muslims from Assam, Bengal and Tri- pura.' What does he mean by saying The other day, in the Consultative- that there is eviction of Muslims from Committee meeting, Shri Badrudduja India? We are not evicting even a was saying: why are yOU talking of single Indian Muslim; we are evicting the killings in Pakistan; look at the only the foreigners, The whole trou- thoU5ands and thousands of Muslims ble arises because they mix up foreign killed in Calcutta. I do not know Muslims with Indian Muslims, So, where thousands and ~ were I put a question to the Prime killed in India, while in Pakistan we Minister, Of course, he did not reply do not know the actual nl'mber of tully. He only said: We shall see to people killed, If this is the attitude ft. Onlv by seeing to it the problem that Is taken, we do not understand will not be solved. After all ~ for whom the word "secularism". CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for Grants 945 I Demands 945:1

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    ~ fq'lff1f ;;-ro 1 ~ whatever they are doing is complete G"tm;fi ;rn;ft ~ ~ I tnR ~ and full, but they are ~ After all, India is a poor country. A poor if; r -:;p:f'RJ' 'fT ;; "ffift 'f>T -:;p:f'RJ' 'fT iff, country can do everything in a poor "{9fu'n: ~ T;, ~~ '17' f"l'm- i'rf'f7i1 way. So, I appeal to the refugees to mor ll'\tlTTf it ".'T.tt 'Pl7 ~ ~ t i;ffi be a bit patient. They must know that they have got to go through a ~ ~ r;ror T<: '!IT ;:rnn ~ Rir. the actual suffering of one crore of ~ "'" ~ ~ ;r@ f'PT lrIT I 41- Hindus in East Pakistan. I have ask- ed some han. Members of this House ~ ~ ~ ~ il 'f,"1¢lrr fif.' iPfT'U who come from the southern part of mtR' ~ ~ i;ffi r.m'{ '3"1 India, and they do not feel so much, m"Tr>if ~ .tt ;:rnn !T;R ~ I ~ not to talk of the average man. I am really sorry for this. ~ miic ~ .tt ;:rnn ~ mr;; Sir, we should know that men and ~ I ~ fif7lJllT if.'l1' fiw:rr 0fl17 I children are being butchered on a mass scale in Pakistan. Women, old or il r;r. ifT('f it'iT ~ I ~ m 'Ii young. are being forcibly married- '0, ~ m<1 U ~ ~ ~ what they, cal! nikaa. Wives are being '3';; ~ 1.f"I:'f.'IU ~ '0T f'f."TT'IT married before the eyes of their hus- bands and after the marriage cere- ~~~~~ mony the husbands are being killed. ~ \if ~ 'hOi 'h'T f'fi1T7ii .tt vrrr There are many instances like that (Interruption). The other day, Sir, a ~ '3';; ~ 'K ~ it U "Itt m"'" young girl wrote to her father in fTif ~ 'l>1 ~ if.'<: ~ ready been married and I am going to ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ be married; please do something about lflfff;" it gm fif.' it soon". A daughter wrote to her f;:;rlJ 11f.'[if 'h'T ~ .tt ~ ~ father, who escaped to India, like this. ~ if.'<: ;;ft "fT!l' ~ 11<: 'lfmf if 'if ~ ~ W 'if "I"'" their girls during the Hitler regime. ~~~~~ Unfortunately due, perhaps, to the weakness of the publicity machinery 'm '1ft ~ U ~ ~ ~~ of this Government the real picture ~~ m ~~ ~ 'I'IT t m<: ~ has not been brought before the eyes of the world. All this reminds one ~ ~ liift ~ qh: ~ ~ mil about the state of affairs that existed it ~R

    [Shri P. N. Kayal] Indian history is a witness. Old Indian What did Bhutto, the Foreign Minis- rulers, particularly Hmdu rulers of ter of Pakistan, say the other day? India, had always failed to assess the He said that the disturbances in Pakis- real danger of the then nation and tan- that is, killing of Hindus and thus fell victims to the foreign aggres- nikaa of Hindu girls and women mar- sors. This is perhaps the character of ried or unmarried-will go on till Indian soil. Naturally, today also, Pakistan can conquer Kashmir. We perhaps, we arc not conscious about it know that the Pathan dictator htill so much. Today what is happening forcibly occupies a part of Jammu and in India is nothing but a Khan-Khanna Kashmir. What should we think of game. Ayub Khan of Pakistan playing Bhutto's statement? Do we find any with the lives of Hindus on the other logic in his statement? Could we get side and our Mehr Chand Khanna a coconut from a mango tree? We trying to give them some huts and can expect only a mango from a tents either in the aran!/a-Dandaka- mango tree. Therefore, what actual- ranya-or in the desert where we do ly Bhutto means when he says that by not find water. Therefore, is this a killing Hindus he can conquer Kash- real picture of the sufferings of the mir? Can we liberate the forcibly refugees or should we take it as a occupied territory of Jammu and Khan-Khanna competition? How Kashmir from the hand of Pakistan? m,ny can Ayub Khan kill and how Can we liberate the Hindu race or many can Mehr Chand Khanna pro- religion in the sub-continent by kil- ·tect or give shelter to. May I ask, ling the six crores of Muslims in should the Indian natiori remain in India? slumber on the face of such a danger? No, definitely not. So it comes to Should we cal! it a mere problem or this that Bhutto can kill the Hindus a danger': Let us recall what were only to wipe out the Hindu race from the developments that took place in the eastern part of the earth and that Pakistan and in India after the inde- can be the only meaning of what !1e pendence. has said. In Pakistan a Pathan dictator ap- I am sure we are going to defend pears. There appears to be no food Kashmir if Pakistan attacks Kashmir. .or freedom in Pakistan since then. We cannot make a gift of it to Pakis- An Islamic Republic is born. Non- tan. I am sure we are not going to Muslims are persecuted constantly give him Kashmir. Then what hap.. and are destined to be ann ihilated pens? After killing the Hindus in through a slow process of deprivation Pakistan, if Bhutto does not get Kash- of trade and livelihood opportunities mir, he will start killing the Hindus and at least the Hindu-massacare be- of India. What does he mean? gins for no reason whatsoever. That The Pathan dictator is now after Pathan dictator recognises only the conscription in his country. There- Pathans and he is now after wiping fore, today it is not only a mere prob- out the non-Pathans in East Pakistan. lem of rehabilitation of some refugees. He docs not spare even the Bengali Today it is the question of survival of Muslims. He says that Pathan's lan- Hindus or Hinduism in India. That ia guage should be the only language in our danger. Pakistan, and thus the Path an dicta- tor carries on. And, now he appear. In my country we have got a leader with the idea of "conscription" in who is the symbol of democracy and Pakistan. What is this grand idea locialism, who is the symbol of huma- for? How many of the Indian nation nity, who is the symbol of glory to appreciate the gravity of the danger India. In the world arena today he emanating from the appearance of has given enough after independence. ·such a Pathan dictator in a neighbour- Therefore, still we have the Muslim ing 'State? private law in India. But today tu. Demands CHAITRA 17, 1686 (SAKA) for GTilnts 9468 duty is much more onerous. He is m;;r 'If'l'r.ff ~ ~ ~ ~ called upon to keep his promise to 'fiT liberate the forcibly occupied part ot ~ ~ ~ I ~ if; ai"I<: il ~ ~ fl' Jammu and Kashmir from the hand of 'fi'If il' 'fi'If ~ ~~ ~ ~ 'lIT;;rrrr ~ I ter activities of Chou En-Iai's counter- part. Also, so tar our leader has res- m;;r ~ ~ 'Wf 'Pf ~ ~ ;;rr trained hi, nse11 in his behavour to- wards Pak..stan because he wanted to ~ ~ I i1'P: ~ ~ ~ ;;rrrr \'fr avoid any \ommunal fury in the coun- ff?f Let us fint! out ways and means to bring them safe here. In doing so, if q;: ~R ;;ft ;;rrcfT ~ "IfR ~ ciT ;;m ~R r4 ~ ~~~~~ ~ if ~ "" ~ 'iff

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    [·.ft ~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ i I 'ifl <'I'll]' WT 'iff 'IlT ~ If( ~ ;w1fT'f ~ if ~ I f;;f(1;f't ~ q'Hl' ~ fl!llt ~ ~ ~ ~~ mnti'r P: ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ifi1 ~ ~ ;fl!lr' ~ I Shrimati Renuka Barkataki (Bar- ~ ffi q'fq' ~ ~ ~ ~ peta): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, r rise to support the Demands for ~ ;;rl q'fq' ~ ~ <'I'm ~ ID'f{ ~ Grants of the Ministry of Works, ~ ~ ffi ~ ~ I 'nf'f.'rnif '1T'1T Housing and Rehabilitation. If neces- ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ sary and if possible, we are ready to T flRlft tration that the report reveals. I am not going into the details of the Works iR "I"f.'l'T i!r1, ~ ~ ~ ~ '3'i'*f and HouRing Department, but I want f'" ,,7ft if ~ ~ Wlf<'llfa' money the Ministry may spend to ful- If.T ~ ~ iIT: 'P: F?l' ~ tion mar the results, The report of if; ~ ~ 'li'r{ ~ 'if)

    Accounts Committee deserve con,ra- crores as loan had been drawn by tulntion for the admirable headin, State Governments upto 31st "Loss in transit", and thil is what the March, 1962. Data compiled by Committee say: the Mbistry in September, 1962 showea that out of 91,256 houses "In FeBruary, 1957, a Public which were built under the ~ Divisional Officer of the scheme and were ready for occu- Manipur Administration entered pation in all respects, ~ many as mto a contract for repacking, in 14,660 houses (representing 16 per bundles of 2 cwt. about 365 tons cent of the total) had been tem- of . corrugated iron sheets import- porarily di,verted for use by ineli- ed from Australia in bundles of gible persons (i.e, persons other about one ton each and for.. load- than industrial workers with an ing them in railway wagon at a income of Rs. 3.50 or below per rate of Rs. 50 per ton inclusive pf month). Besides, another 11,459 insurance charges. In the written houses (over 12 per cent of the agreement with the contractor, ~ were lying vacant. however, the fact that the accept- ed rate was inclusive of insur- The percentage of houses not ance charges was omitted through ut ilised for allotment to the eligi- oversiiht. ble p('rsons was particularly high in Bihar (42 per cent), Uttar Pra- On receipt of the materials at desh (38 per ('('ntl, West Bengal the destination, a shortage of 6.75 (37 per cent) and Andhra Pradesh tons (together with 585 numbers (34 per cent). of cover sheets) was noticed. Be- sides, one wagon containing 19 tons did not reach the destination. It had also been reported that The contractor claimed Rs. 18,278 the ~ rent was not reco- on account of the work done by vered from the ineligible persons him. The Administration, how- in certain States. In Uttar Pra- ever, preferred a counter-claim of desh, the economic rent was :lot Rs. 23,398 against the contractor recovered from ineligible occu- on account of transit shortages pants till November, 1959 when and compensabon for failure to orders were issued for recovery at repack the sheets in smaller the enhanced rates. Even there- boundles of 2 cwt. each. The claim after, more than 4,000 allottees of the contractor was ultimately paid subsidized rents instead of settled by arbitration in July, the enhanced rents ovpr the period 1960 for Rs. 10,967." 1959 to 1961. In Assam, rent amounting to Rs. 92,000 approxi- So far as the ~ Department mately in respect of the period is concerned, I am very much impres- upto June, 1962 had not been re- lied by the pictures of the magniftcen t covered from the ineligible occu- IlUildings which the Ministry has sup- pants." Illied to us. And I understand that one of them is meant for us also. But So far as the Rehabilitation Depart- so far as the subsidised industrial mont i, concerned, it is also not 'in a housing scheme is concerned, I feel good state. There are so many ano- that the procedure followed by the malies, in the disposals of evacuee pro- Ministry has proved to be a failure. pertl!'s, maintenance of records, in- I shall refer to another example. The complete property registers, defective Public Accounts Committee say on accounts of sale proceeds, defective page 56 of the Twenty-fourth Report: implementation of training schemes and other projects. Here too I am "A total amount of Rs. 17.21 giving you an example of the kind crores as subsidy and Rs. 21.M of costly mistakes committed by this 9477 Dema"ds APlUL ' 11,11104 ~

    [Shrimati Renuka Barkataki] Department. This is in case of a of the officsrs in this Ministry are per- acheme for setting up a production- sons who have been found unfit for cum-training centre. This is what the any other Ministries, and that they Public Accounts Committee say about have been appointed in this Ministry it on page 65 of their Report: as a result of political pressure. If that is true,. it is high time for the "In February, 1956, the Minis- Minister to take note of it, and iee try of Rehabilitation sanctioned a that officers who are scheme for the setting up of a pro- totype training-cum-productlon Shrl Tyagl (Dehra Dun): I hope centre lit Kamarhatty, near Cal- this remark is not attributed te the cutta, on an estimated non-recur- Public Accounts Committee. ring expenditure of Rs. 2' 32 laklui lind a recurring expenditure of Shrimati Renuka Barkataki: No, it Rs, 3' 68 lakhs per annum. The i. not. One of my friends said it, ICheme envisaged: and I am subject to correction.

    (i) the training and lib sorption m Shri Tyagi: I am not your friend! the Centre of a total of 140 Shrimati Renuka Barkataki: am displaced persons III the not saying that he said it, manufacture of bamboo pro- ducts, and The Minister of Works, Housing and (ii) the marketing of the product. Rehabilitation (Shri Mehr Chand of the Centre, the sale pro- Khanna): I can assure her that no ceeds of which were estimat- appointment in my Ministry has been ed at Rs, 480 lakhs per annum, made on a political basis, If she brings any particular name to my The training centre was set up in notice, I am prepared to look into it. October, 1957 and 110 trainees were We both belong to the same political recruited in July, 1958, 20 of them party, left durnig the training period. Out of the remaining 90 trainees, only 59 Shrimati Renuka Barkataki: That is were absorbed in the Centre after very good if it is not done on a poli- completion of the training, tical basis,

    The total expenditure incurred up to An hOD. Member: What about in- J;;muary, 11162 ~ Rs, 12' 55 lakhs, of efficiency, thos(' who are rejected out- which the non-recurring expenditure side? was R<; 3' 02 lakhs and the recurring expenditure, Ri, 9' 53 lakhs, Shrimati Rcnuka Barkataki: I would like to suggest that the Govern- The total sales from the Centre dur- ment of India should create a separate ing the period 195B-59 to 1961-62 Ministry for Relief and Rehabilitation amounted to Rs, 1 '79 lakhs only. to speed up the work,

    The Centre was halldcd over to the About officers also, I must say a few West Bengal Government with effect words. It is a fact that disciplinary from 1st April, 1962." action was initiated against dcfaultin, officers who were guilty of 3erious This shows that it is high time to irregularities, reorganise this Ministry on a proper footing so as that it may deal effec- "During the period June, 1957 tively with the r!'fugee problem, I to December, 1960 the Chief Tech- am told by one of mv friends-I do nical Examiner's half-yearlY re- not know how it i3 true-that some ports included 98 major cases of 9479 Demands CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for Grants' 9480 overpayment involving about placed on the Table of the Hou. Rs. 10 lakhs in all, due to sub- there is...... (InterTUption) . • tandard execution of works. In 70 of these cases involving Rs. 6 An Hon. Member: She is not yield- lakhs, disciplinary action was not ing ... (Interruption). considered necessary against the officers responsible even though Mr. Deputy-Speaker: She is not the overpayments were admitted yielding. by the Department as in the opi- Shri Morarka: She has yielded. It nion of the Department, no mala was a ruling given by the hon. fides had been established against the officers concerned." Speaker that the House cannot refer to the Audit Report til! the report i. This, agin, is from the Public Ac- examined by the PAC; but once the counts Committee's report. report is examined by the PAC and that report is placed on the Table of An Hon, Member: What do you say the House, the House has a right, sa now, Mr. Chairman? a matter of fact, a duty to refer to that report. Shri Tyagi: I do not know to what Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I have alloW'- ·extent the P.A.C. report can be refer- .!'ed to . ed her to do that. Shri Surendranath Dwivedy: Shri Some Hon. Members: Why not? Tyagi knows that he only wanted to {Interruptions) . save the han. Minister. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is placed Shrimati Renuka Barkll.taki: It is 'on the Table of the House. very disturbing to note that even cales initiated in 1960 are still pending with Shri Morarka (Jhunjhunu): If you the Department. Another surprising want to keep them private, why do thing is that a District Rent and you lay them on the Table? (Inter- Managing Officer who ~ an agree- ruptions). It is surprising that the ment ignoring the Ministry's orders Chairman of the PAC is making a in April 1959 resulting in a net loss sttement like this. of Rs. 8,500 had rf'signed from ser- vice and the Department could not Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath (Hoshan- take anv action agdinst him. Thele ~ : The Chairman doe3 not are all things we hBife learnt from the 'lmow it. How comes Buch ignorance? PAC R~ We did not knoW' of them before the PAC submitted ttl Shri Tyagi: It refers to two years Report; only no", we have come to ago; it refers to 1961-62. Therefore I know of them. am saying this. So far as the relief and rehabilita- Mr. Deputy.Speaker: The hon. tion part is concerned, the vast num- Member may go on with her speech. ber of refugee.. from East Pakistan have created 11 problem for us. ~ Shrimati Renuka Barkaiaki: It is tan is making India look very foolit!h the ~ report . (Interrup- by dumping all the non-Muslim non) . minorities in India while being .e- cure in the thought that there will be Shri R. S. Pandey (Guna): The no large-scalf! refugee movement ~ attention of Shri Tyagi is drawn . India to Pakistan. In retrospect It would appear that India hal commJt- Shri Morarka: I want to make a ted a fa tal mistake by aeceptin, pIIrtl. ,.ubmission. When an Audit Report is tion with a pre-condition 01 exdlangll Demands APRIL 6, 1964 for Grants

    [Shrimati Renuka Barkataki] of population, a proposition to which ternal publicity has totally failed to at that time Mr. Jinnah had reconcil- draw the attention of the world ed himself. I know very well that nations to Pakistan's cynical disregard ~ stOOd in India's way of accept- for human values and India's humani- mg that pre-conditiOn of exchange of tarian apprach to this human population was India's faith in se- problem. . . . (Interruption.) cularism. But the price which India has been paying for this faith for long has become exorbitant and Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The han. lately it has proved to be or has Member's time is up. become beyond our limit. Anyway, India is in honOur and by Constitution Shri Tyagi: She will yield to bound to safeguard secularism and younger friends, not to yOu. owes it to herself to give protection to these religious minorities, specially the vast number of Muslims in India. Shrimati Renuka Barkataki: So But the point is that India's high prin_ many people disturbed me. ciple and faith in secularism are being made d!'vilish use of by Pakistan. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The time is Pakistan has found it very convenient up. to push OUt its non-Mml!m minorities without any fear of large-scale retalia- Shrimati Renuka Barkataki: We tion from this country. This is the are not only facing the problem of re- basis on which Pakistan is playing fugees from East Pakistan, we are its wicked game, a game of one-'way also facing the problem of Indian re- tramc. fugees from Ceylon, Burma, Zanzi- bar-practically from all over the globe. Indian refugees are coming What is more, Pakistan is not only to India. Unless we take up this pro- dumping her non-Muslims minorities blem at the international level, I do On India but is al.o dumping her not think it wilI be possible for the Muslim nationals in India with a Government of India to solVe thill view to undermining the political problem. It seems that the Govern- lecurity of this country. As a result ment of India feels a little hesitant or of this one-way traffic while Pakistan has greatly reduced its population helpless to raise this issue in the United Nations. I know, why the lind financil burden, India's popula- tion has swollen and her expenditure Government of India is feeling help- on rehabilitation has snowballed. less. The United Nations is a power- About 9 million persons had migrated ful forum to create international public opinion and to seek sympathy to this country in the wake of parti- tiOn and another wave of a few and support, but we have the bitter. experience of the Kashmir issue. In ~ is coming after the recent communal riots in Pakistan. India this world organisation with the cur- rents and cross-currents of world has spent about Rs. 50 crores on rehabilitation work; as against that power politics we have seen that Pakistan hilS spent about Rs. 40 sometimes the victims and the aggrie- crores on rehabilitation work. But ved are put at par with the aggressor. whatever we have spent, whatever We have seen that in this world or- labour or pain we have taken out- ganlSlltiOIl6 that reflect pubEc opinion side India. nobody knows how India dOn to got justice. But We cannot Is facing this problem. I must say leave the matter there ...... {Inter- that the External Affairs Mini .. trv ruption). We must invite international which is primarily responsible for ex'- or ganisations that reflect public opi- Demands CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for Grants nion to come and see the situation in +f,R ~ ~ ~ q."T lIT'; '",WT m<: India as well as in Pakistan, ~ g-tn I ;;rIOf ~ ir ~ ~ I have to give up some of my points ,,,'IT'IT ~ ;fiTf;;r iT ;;rflii +rmr+r T "f because of the disturbances, But I m lTir ~ I ~ <1'1 ~ ~~ offer my thanks and congratulations .iT lfTiT'fT ~ I m'f>"f ~ 'l>fRt ~ f'l> ~ to Shri Mehr Chand Khanna, our Minister, who at this late stage of his ~ ~ ~ 'f.f ~ ~ life takes SO much pains for the relief 'Tll'r(fl GTf;r,QFi ~ tt ur-frrr l1titlTT I and rehabilitation of refugees, He ~ ~ ~ 1'fo/lT realises the stUferings of the refugees f'f. '1ff1 ~ '3f1f'Ti9' ~ mGT ;r. f.".f'lll' '" of: "r:r 'FT Wf"1': ~ I fB'fl!;:;:{ ~ Ofr ,,1 ~ ';fT e- ~ ~ ~ ~ I m:if \\1'fT ~ >'1"1 it ll'f: onr'fT ~ m ~ ~~ 'f.f (ffT'P Qr ~ ,-;'''f lTIfT ~ I t f'f7 n;T 'if'hr tt if ~ (fiT m iTlfT r I Cf(lf ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ i:'li[ 'r. ~~ mor m';: ~ it ~ m WfV-T ~~~ ~ ~R f7.'fll'Oftor ~ >rf'T ~ ~ I ~ ~ '!ft, ,,-,[: f'f> ~ ~~ m, +r'li"f'1T.ri 'P ~ '1 ~ ~ I ;;ri-;: ~ 1'q;fCl' fmt r ~ ~ ;o;:ffi ~~ ~ ~ ~ OfT if., >f1 'l>T >f'{fn QlrrT, ~ ~ 15fT ~ '!f;J' ~ : i!t ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ;:::r':j0lT 'l>T mT '!IT< ~ ~ ,",'1' if, jilT 'fit if ~ 'ifrvm ~ I i"t<:T ~ WRfT I ~ lY'SIT iT iI'g'l TT;ft ~ ~~~~~ I ~~ '(G'T if, ij'foq- i!t mq if, [f"'J '1-;'1' iT 'f:'(!'fT ~ ~ it ~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ 'ifTii:fIT R P-:; ~ !g'';fr ~ if; 'rF[

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    taking their bath in the tanks. So, So, my State is trying to Improve they want tanks. But tanks, accord- their condition, but how to do it Ing to our sanitary regulations there, without financial aid? There is pro- cannot be allowed to be constructed in vision for improvement of the tribal this area at this stage. In addition to people in the Budget. I request the that, they want fish. If they have Ministry to enhance the contribution tanks, they can have fisheries also. to my State, and assist my State That is the only pOint, but there is no financially, SO that it will be in a posi- water scarcity at all. If my friend tion to face these diftl.culties. wants that they should be provided with tanks for bathing purposes and Shri N. C. Chatterjee (Burdwan): fisheries, they may have them, but I feel it my duty to administer a note from the pnint of view of health, it of caution to the members of the is quite objectionable and not at all Government and the hon. Members permissible, because these tanks are of this House that ther are serious sources of communicable infectioUs misgivings in the minds of the people diseases. So, I request the hon. of West Bengal, particularly the re- Member to correct her opinion. cent migrants who have come from East Pakistan, as to what is going to The State is facing a difficult pro- happen as a result of the meeting of blem in rehabilitating the refugees. the Home Ministers of India and My State is noted for poverty. About Pakistan one third of the population consists of the tribal people. They do not know You remember We had the very what civilisation is. So, my State has unhappy experience of a similar meet_ to do many things for them, to im- ing which ended in the India-Pakis- proVe their condition, but our finan- tan pact which is called the Nehru- cial resources are limited. It is • Liaqat Pact. At that time, one ot purely agricultural State, it is lagging the greatest sons of Bengal, and one in industry. There is no big' source of the greatest sons of India, protest- of income in our State. We are fac- ed. Of course, he was then a Mem- ing these difficulties. And as for the ber of the Nehru Cabinet. He was refugees, simply providing them resi- Dr. Shyama Prasad Mukerjee. In dence or accommodation will not spite of his protest, the Nehru-Iiaqat 88tisfy them. They must be given Pact was entered into. We, as a se- employment. For that industrips must cular State, kept our word of honour. be started. In this connection, I We implemented the pact, and we draw the attention of the Ministry to did not want to torture or drive out a scheme submitted by our belived of India one single loyal Indian Mus- Chief Minister to ~ industries lim, and we kept our word. in Orissa, and give these refugees em- Shri Shiakre' (Marmagoa): Nei- ployment. I request the Minister to ther loyal nor disloyal. consider that scheme favourably and grant substantial funds to meet the Shri N. C. Chatterjee: But what expenses for the benefit of the re- happened? It was implemented uni- fugees. ' laterally. I remember that Shri Lal In addition to that, we provide the Bahadur Shastri said the other day refugees with modern amenities, but that he did not remember the figures. what about the fate of our own I can give you the figures. people. In the Dandakaranya project, all the refugees have been provided 15.15 hrs. with moderate amenities but the In- [SHRI KHADILKAR in the Chair] habitants of that area have been de- prived 01 existing facilities. That is Dr. B. C. Roy told me that as a re- another problem to be solved. sult of the Nehru-Liqat Pact, out of '9497 Demands APRIL 6, 1964 fCY/' Grants 9498

    [Shri N. C. Chatterjee] the nine lakhs of Muslims who had persecution and no relief so far as the left West Bengal for East Pakistan, minorities are concerned. eight lakhs came back, and they were all rehabilitated properly. I have told this Houae, and I ought to tell you now that consciously, deli- Shri Basumatari: You have got the berately, they have planned this kind census? of minority baiting, in order to scotch and kill the democratic movement. Shri N. C. Chattf'rjee: And they There has been a growing movement were rehabilitated at Government ex- for the establishment of a popular pense. Government, in order to oust Presl- dent AyuJb's totalitarian regime, and Now, what Is the picture on the that is why President Ayub and hil other side? It is a c!ory of grievous henchmen consciously, and eliberete- disappointment. Unfortunately, Pakis- ly started this game-call it genocide. tan did not implement the pact. There religious genocide Or communal geno- was regular torture and progressive cide-in order to divert attention and persecution of the miorities, and I do in order to thwart that movement. not think Shri Guha at all exaggera- ted when he said that deliberately, in I am happy to say that distinguished a planned manner, the Pakistan Gov- editors among East Bengal Muslims ernment has been treating the miori- who were running important papers, ties as Jimmies. You know that both immediately the Khulna carnage was Hindus and Christians have been started. wrote stron!! editorials con- treated as pawns in the political ~ this kind of minority baiting, game. and they said it wou)d lead to dis- aster both for India and Pakistan, it Actually, I resent the expression would bring no good to Pakistan and "communal disturbances" with refe- would ruin both the countries. And rence to East Pakistan. There are no what has happened to them, you must communal disturbances. It is a mis- have read in the papers. In the lalt nomer. Actually. what has happened three days, each one of them has been is something like a communal or a subjected to forfeiture or impusition religious genocide. I happened to be of special security to the extent ot a member of the International Com- Rs. 26.000 or Rs. 30,000, which means mission appointed by the International those papers have been l!omlJletely Commission of jurists to enquire into gagged. the reported genocide in Tibet, and along with the other eight members I would request Shri Nanda :Iud the who came from di1l'rent countries, Government that ':f the" want really Judges. Chief Justices. members of the reliet and rehabilitation' for the tor- Supreme Court, Prime Ministers and tured and persecuted mioritics, the others, I had signed that report con- first condition preeedent to the talks victing China of deliberate religious should be the implementation of the genocide. That is exactly the plan first clause of the Nehru-Liaquat whiCh Pakistan has launched all this Pact. We have never ~ time. that pact. I think Shri Tl'idib Kumar Chlludhuri read it out. That Therefore, our people are rather Pact said: apprehensive, but I hope, I wish and I pray that Shri Nanda will have, this "In respect ot migrants from time, a more realistic approach, and East Benglll, West Bengal, Assam will see that it does not end In • and Tripura, where communal dis- . pact which Wlill be again unilaterally turbanceshave recently occurred, ~ and will lead to more it is agreed between the two Gov- '9499 CHAITRA 17, 1888 (SAKA) 9500

    -ernments of India and Pakistan guished Muslim leaders, who can be iirst trusted, both men and women, I knoll' that there are Muslim leaders iD "there shall be complete freedom India who are willin/l: to eo to East and protection in transit." Pakistan for the purpose of rescue. They are ashamed of this conduct of ~ they have violatl'd it. Pakistan; they say it is un-Islamic, it I told you On Friday ~ wh!lt I saw, is inhuman; it is barbarous and we standing at ~ Petropo\e railway train. must do our duty by India in this "I'hey are doing it. I ~ you that crises and show loyalty to India. hundreds of young girl5 and women Nothing has been done. I think this have been taken oul from thl' rli:I- way station and they were not allowed is the first ~ that should be taken up, to come over. This plea that there were no migration papers was entire- We take particular ~ in these ]y un rounded, because thp. father and distressing days to condemn Pakistan the old mother are al10wed to come Government. But what is our Gov- without any passport. but t!1e yOU:1g ernment doing? What has our Gove- giri is dra!(ged down from the train rnment done? Cannot our Govern- and kept back. Tuda:;'s news is ment ~ for these migrant trains worse. The railway staff in East to come under the Joint auspicps of Pakistan has struck work and they officers of two Governments? I have are not allowing any train to come requested both Shri Shastri and Shri from Benapo1e, which is the la't sta- Nanda to do something. 1 am asking tion in Pakistan, to Petropole which is Shri Khanna also to consider thlt. the first station on ~ Tndian ')order. Pra"tical1y, in the first clause of the But that does not !natter. They can Nehru-Liaquat agreement, under the possibly walk down ~ distance, but joint auspices of the two Govern- what I demand, as th(' ~~ conJit.ion ments, they ensured safe tnnsit; precendent to the Nanda-Habibullah whenever any Mussalman wants to go talks is that there mu">! he sare tran- away to Pakistan from India, our 'Sit of these ~ Secondly, Government feels it a sacred duty and there shall be no molestation of the sees to it that he gets safe transit to young girls or women, which has com- the Pakistan border, Why should peletely shattered our people. We we not demand that OUr officers should ean not stand this. accompany theSe trains and see that they are not subjected to this kind I have given you the figures; over of molestation or ravishing of women? '20,000 have been killed; Shri I am sorry to say that our ,Govern- Guha said in Parliament that over ment has miserably failed in its duty, 20,000 have been kil1c,i in East Bm- in pulling up our OWn officers in the gal. We do not mind that, but what office of the Indian Deputy High has pained us more, ~ us Commissioner, Dacca. Systemati- more, not merely Ben,galiJ but all cally, thousands of mi£rants were sections of Indians what has shocked queuing up at the office, and they are India, is this. ~ 6,500 girls have being subjected to illegal gratification been abducted or kidnapped and there and also ill-treatment and misb2ha- is no trace of them. The Irst thing viour at the hands of our officers, should be that they should The reports from Pakistan are heart- be rescued, The first thing that rendering. I have forwarded "orne re- Shri Nanda and Shri Habibullah ports to the Minister, but up till now should discuss is, how to r(,scue thpse nothing has happened. Shri N3nda unfortunate girls. I apoToarhl'd Shri wrote to me day before yesterday Nanda. He said, "I will utilise the that the Deouty HiJ:h Commission .. r lnternational Red Cross." That has has completely denied the correctness not been done. Then Shri Nanda of these charges. This denial. we do thought of sending down some distin- not accept. Shri Shastri told me a diffe- 112 (al) ~ 9501 APRIL 6, 19M ~

    [Shri N. C. Chatterjee J rent story. He said, "I asked the members of the minority com- High Commis3ioner in India to go munity are queuing up at the Visa down to Dacca and he went down and Migration Office." took some action. Therafter there has been some improvement." But I Cannot our Government stop this? have got today letters; some of my Can we not stop this? I ought to tell friends have also got letters; these you that Shri Khanna should ~ letters are in ~ Fortunately, down-I am appealing to him to do> they were not censored. I sal! read ~ the border areas, the Indo- one letter which I haVe received; it Pakistan border. He will be amazed is dated Chaitra 7. that is. 27th March to find that infiltration is going on It is from a prominent citizen of East daily, on the West Bengal border from Pakistan, who is still a Pakistani citi- Pakistan. Hundreds of them are com- zen; he does not want to migrate to ing every day. It is going on in Assam India, he says: also. I had the privilege to be ele- cted as the P fesident of the Karim- ··Sir, ganj Convention which took place at I am sending yOU my thanks for Karimg:mj-Caehar border, after strongly ~ in the Lok Tukergram ·fell and was illegaly cap- Sabha the indifYercn"e and cruel tured by Pakistan. All parties ot !behaviour of tht officers in the Assam invited me. Shri Chaudhun Office of the Indian Deputy High W3S there, and Shri Kamath wall Comm;ssioner at Dacca. I am there. We toured the Caehar-Pakis- reliably infromed that the cor- tan border. I came back and reported ruption, graft and the iII-treat- to Shri Shastri on that. Our report ment are still continuing at the was that about a million Pakistanis Indian Visa-Migraion Office nt have infiltrated into Assam and we re- Da:ca. The clerks of that ~ ques:ed the Government to do some are regularly seeing every even- thing about it. But nothine: was done, ing, approved Or unapproved visa and the result is now many more have agents in the hotels as they used come. and it is alleged that some of to do before. They supp!y visa them were coming under the auspices and migration application forms of very big men, high up in Govern- after receiving some money and mental authority Or pOSItion. Even extract money for ex- today, when We are ~ pediting the issue of visa Pakistan, the Infiltration into lnuia etc. The approved visa agents are is going on. Unfortunately, my o!d all known to the Visa Officer or class-fellow. Lord Radcliffe. when he the clerks. Although they ~ gave the Radcliffe Award. made the long to the minority commur..ity border area a Muslin· mnjority area_ here, yet they are ill-treating We do not want the Muslims to g3. the fellow members of the ~ But I want the border to be streng- community. Moreover, it is very thened. I appeal to Shri Khanna t() difficult to go to Dacca and secure see that this infiltration is stopped visa. etc. It is almost impossible somehow. Otherwise, rehahilitation to get admission into the office. should be done in the area. I do not If anybody enters into the offie", at all agree with my Chief Mi::Jiste:-, the clerks harass him unneces- Shri , the Chief larily. For passport appiieations Miniser of West Bngal. He is entire- they fix a date after a long in- ly wrong. I led that delegation of terval and things are expedited all parties to the three Ministers, if money is paid. Regarding ap- when they carne to Ca!cutta-Silri plications for migration, dates are Nanda, Shri Krishnamachari and Shrl given after two or three monthl. Khanna. All of them were th"re Even now daily thousands of and We had frank discU53iom for two CHAITRA 1'1, 1886 (SAKA) 950 4 hours and a half. Shrl Sen, the Chi"! budget was placed bef-'re ~ H;:use. Minister of West Bengal, said t1at They realised that not only thousands West Bengal has reached saturation but mass immigration is bound to take point and that no refugees can pcs- place. Waves of immigrants will fibly be resettled there. Everybody pour into India. But when the hudget kept quiet. I am publicly, on behalf was placed one month later, on tho of my people, ~~ my gratItu- 29th Feburuary, there was no trace of de to the othl!r States, ~ any indication of the responsibility Orissa, MadhyG Pradesh, Maharashtra, of the Government of India for Assam and other States. for com:ng making any provision for rehJbilita- forward and helping the Jefugees and tion of these new migrants, and we allotting land for making rehubiiita- were disappointed. tion possible. But it is not correct, It is also correct that this infiltra- that there cannot be any resettlement tion which is going on must stop. at all in ~ Bengal. I have go! There arc pEople going from West her" in my hand a pamphlet entitled Bengal to Pakistan and coming back A Scheme of Refu.gee Rehabilitation agilin. I do not know; it seems the in ~ SlLwlcrha:1s by S;;tish Chan- border is a smugglers' paradise bet- dra Das Gupta. I will send it on te ween Pe:rapole and Benapole. I was Mr. Khanna. If there is any real dis- told that both Hindus and Muslims ciple of Mahatma Gandhi next to are carrying on this trade. Some:hing Acharaya Vinobha Bhave it is Shri should be don'2 to check it. The best Satish Chandra Das GuptA. H" was way to check it is to build up our the companion of M3hatma Ga"dhi own bocder force, not merely the offi- throughout his Noakhali tour and cal force, but our own frontier guard. spent days with him when he was ilt We have suggested that and it should Srirampur. He has written this. All be taken uP. the figures are here. He is not a m:.n to exaggerate; he is not bringing I am also suggesting that Mr. Khan- na should go down to the Mana camp. politics into this thhg. He says, in Sunderbans yOU can easily settle I am told Mr. Naskar was there. 30.000 or 40,000 families. I am not 8hrl Mehr Chand Kbanna.: I had saying that West Bengal lan a!),c .. ~ been there 15 days ago. all the millions who are coming. We 8hri N. C. Chatterjee: I am not say- do not know how many mill'ons J'('ore ing there is choldera there; I do not will come. But I think Mr. C.HI:- want to say anything which is incor- dhuri's figure is only moderat!::. He rect: Bu t the report is that the con- said 2 milions would be comhg in di:tion there is very bad. There i. the immediate future. Blu what bas absolutely no provision for water: our Government done? Drinking water comes from Raipur which is 6 to 6 miles away. On the 29th January at Govern- 8hri P. 8. Naskar: There are al- ment House in Calcutta, ~ '1'. T. ready tube-wells and we are sinking Krishnamac-hari, the Fina"'!'p M:J;.s. more tube-wells. ter, Mr Nanda, thp Home Minister and Mr. Khanna met us. AI! the 8hrl N. C. Chatterjee: I am told poli:ical parties of Bengal were uni- that the population there is already ted. We demanded: Kmd],· ~ a 50,000. Mr. Gupta, who is the man in poley of open door; remove charge of Dandakaranya project, is all restrictions and arranl! hr rpha- also looking after the transit camp at bilitation: accept it as a national lia- Mana and he has reported that the bility. Mr. Nanda, after due position is very serious. He has deliberation gave us the word that asked the West Bengal GovernmEnt to he would relax, becaus he is stop sending any further migrants s:.tisfied that they ca'lnc.t prlssibly from East Pakistan. That is what has stay on. On the 29th February, the come out in the press. I do not know. APRIL 6, IBM 950 6

    [Shri N. C. Chatterjee] Mr. Khanna and Mr. Naskar ought to agreed to sit with the Government of know better. Mr. Gupta is a res- India to discuss all these problem& ponsible officer, head of the adminis- trat' on in Dlndllkaranya, who is also Here we are confronted with the in charge of this camp and he is question of rehabilitation. There- fore, I want to say a few words in saying "Don't send more; ,t cannot this respect. I will not say that all cope with it." So, something should the refugees that are coming today be done. into India can he rehabilitated in I wind up by saying these words. West Ikngal. All of them cannot be Whatever may be the Nanda-Habi- rehabilitated in ASS3m or Tripura bullah arrangement, hundreds of also. But the first point I want to thousands are going to come. You say is that the plea put forward by· can..-::'Dt stop that. Let us not be under the West Beng1l Government as well a delusion. Let us not deceive our as the Government of India that West selves. Let u, not In under a B-2ngal has reached the saturaf on false notion. They are bound to 'Point-this partic;.:lar thEory ~ come. Today I demand that there ced by the Government of West should be a Cabinet Minister in full Bengal and accepted by the Govern- charge of rehabilitation. The pre- m('nt of India without any proper S'l!nt arrangement would not do. It checking up is a very regrettable is a colossal problem. All your plan- affair. A few years ago ~ West ning will go down; all your develop- Bengal Government came forward ment work will be. stultified; you with this theory and this th£'ory was cannot possibly carry on your contested not only by the leftist par- administration if you cannot cope ties in West Bengal, but by many with this rehabilitation problem of Congressmen also. Today again this all these thousands and thousands who theory is being advanced. are d:dy pouring in and who will What is happening today in Pet- continue to !lour in. Therefore, I rap ale or any other area where these am suggesting this. If my friend Mr. migrants are coming? They are imme- Khanna can be placed in charge of diately whisked away to other parts rEhabilitation alone and be relived of of India. They are not kept there even all other responsibilities, .l do not for 7 days. This is being done even mind. Let that be done. Let one when it is known to the GovernmE!llt Cab net Minister with full powers be of India and Government of 'Nest placed in complete charge of rehabi- Bengal that arrangements are JRcking libtion. Otherwise, this tortured and in Mana camp, in Dandakaranya and pzrsecuted humanity will not be other places wh'2re they are slnt. t>roperly looked after and we shall Cannot the West Bengal Government not discharge our national obliga- be made to set U!l certain camps for tion properly. a few days (ven, So that in the Dr. Ranen Sen (Calcutta East): Sir, meantime proper arrangements can be I do not want to say anything that made elsewhere and the refugees may puts difficulty in the work of rehabi- be taken there? N a such attempt is litation carried on by the Government being mad'2 either bv the Government of India. Nor do I want to say any- of India or by the West Bengal Gov- thing that will ere a le difficulties in ernment. the work of the Government of India Shri N. C. Chatterjee has refErred to bring S'l!nse to the Pakistan Gov- to a (' .. rtain scheme g:ven by Shrl ernment. I think the step taken by Satish Chandra Das Gupta. We have the Government of .India to bring also seen that scheme. Maybe that sense to the Pak'stan Govrrnment the scheme may not be acceptable is a welcome sign and at least under cent per cent, but at least a part of pressure the Pakistan Government has that scheme can be implemented and 9507 Demllnds CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for Granu

    these poor refugees can be- settled were established in Or:ssa. in B-e1:ia accordingly. New industries arc and other places. Thousands of re- cropping up in Orissa and Madhya fugees were takEn there. Shri Khanna Pradesh with the help of the Gov- and also Shri Naskar knows about it. "ernment of India to resettle the re- All of us know about it. But, sir, fugees. It is a welcome affair. We not only for man ths but for years to- arc also grateful to those Governments gether those refugees were ~ there for making arrangements to receive with the result that they ultimately these refugees. Land may not be deSErted those camps. These are available in West Bengal. But in- historical facts. Nobody can deny d ustries can be sta rted in West them. .1 want to say here that those Bengal under thoc aegis of the Gov- camps shOUld be merely likfl transit ernment of India. What is wrong in camps. In the meal' time the Govern- th3t? Where is the difficulty in mEnt of India must make arrange- .tarting industries there? How ~ ments. Can we not accommodate two land is required to set up factor:Es, to mill on or five million people? Is it ~ indu3tcial estates in West Bengal? impossible for a country like India I want a clear answer from the hon. where we have more than 44 crores Minister about this. of people. If it is a national problem, if we say that this thing should be Shri Naskar was speaking about the treated on a war footing, it is high conditions in Mana Camp. It is a time that the Government of Ind'a fact that for the last 15 days or three and the Government of :West Bengal wreks conditionR have improved- change their attitude. I am very sorry thanks" to Shri Khanna, thanks to to say that so far the treatment that Shri Naskar. But nobody can deny these West Bengal refugees has fleen that even today dea :hs are taking getting has beEn very shabby. place here. Deaths of young chll,lre;l are taking place here. I have got I will cite certain examples. Let it from the offiCErs of the Government Us take up th(! old problem. From old of West B-2ngal who have accompanied records we will come to know what these refugee trains to those areas. has been the affairs. Shrimati Renu People coming from East Bengal r,re Chakravartty this morning spoke all of a suddln put in an area where about the conditions of refugees who th ... re are not even enough tents to are in the squatt'2rs' colon"es. Those accommodate everYbody. That is a colonies are still undeV( loped. It is fact. Recently some members of the also a fact tha t in most of the colonies WEst Bengal ~ Council and the people have not got the land. Assembly had been there. They is- It is also a fact that compensation IS sued a statement. They have said 1:t2ing extracted from those poor rE- that proper arrangement is still lack- fugees. Compensation amounting to ing. The GovernmEnt of India should Rs. 3000 and Rs. 4000 is being extra- take up this issue immediately. It is ted from them. Either they pay the 81so a hct that the Dandakaranva 'compensation or they are made to Authorities have stated that they do qu"t. The people Who have settled 1I0t have any arrangements and these there for the last 13 years to 14 years p,opl'e in their thousands should not are poor people. ThEY are not in a be sent there immediately. positiOn to pay Rs. 3000 and Rs. 4000 as compensation to the landlords. Therefore, they are not able to t;et In th's connection, I want to state the land. Ceremonies of giving arpan that It Is a welcome sign that in ~ are mere ceremones. The:e- ~ in Bihar and in Orissa camps fore" ~ I say is a complete change are ~ set up to ~ in attitude is called for. '.hese refugee', It is a good thing. But I am afra'd of one thing" in tne Sir. I want to m,ke a few BUl/- years 1949, 1950 and 1951 such: cami's gestion.. Before that, 1 want 950 9 APRIL 6, 19M 9S IO

    [Dr. Ranen Sen] to lay a word about the resi- wrote to the Defence Mlnutr1. I duary problem. Year after year, wrote to the M.niltry here and I for the last few years, the Ministry of wrote to the Department of Rehabl- Works, Housing and Rehabilitation haa liotation in West Bengal. Nobod1 been writing about this residuary pro- listens to that. This is the result of blem. In a private interview also the the policy which is barren, which il Minister said that the West Bengal inhuman, which is unhealthy and Government has decid-ed that only whicb is indecent. Therefore, I 81Y re5iduary problems remain and that the that proper efforts should be made to was prepared to pay them Rs.: 22 rehabilitate as many refugees u crores or so. Now, it has bEen pro- possible in West Bengal through in- ved by this statement of the Presi- dustries. dent of the Bengal Prov:ncial Con- Secondly, the old refugees should be gress Commi ltee that the problem properly rehabiIitlted, Money should was not residuary, it was enormous. be given to this Refugee Rehabili- He even admits in th'e statement-a tation Department. This Ministry belated statement-that after ten or should get more money. We speak fifecn yc.ars only 50 per cent of re- in the Parliament and say that this fugees in West Bengal have got some is a national problem and then we sort of rehabilitation and there too shirk our res!lansibJity. it is nothing the rehabilitaian wo,k has not beEn but shedding crocodile tears. There- ~ While looking at the new fore, more money should be given migrants, can we ~ the old poor and, as m:my oth?r hO:l. MEmbers sufferers. TherEfore, Sir. I say that have said, a separate Ministry shrw!d this attitude should also be changed. exist for this work and it should not be bgged on to the Works. Housing The way in which the ~ Ministry. There is no relation bet- of Refugees in West Bengal and the ween these two. Minis'ry of Works, Housing and Re- Thirdly, the Dandakaranya authori- habilitation in the Government of ties should be given more powers. The India and also the Ministry of Re- old quarrels should be completely re- ~ of the Government of solved and rrl1loved. The Danda- West Bengal have been work'ng has karanya authorities should be aSK!'d resulted in a S'eries of clashes and to eshiblish villages near about the quarrels between the local people and Dandakaranya area. It should not the rEfugees in many places. I ''fiJI be that on.e village is created. tireD give you one example. Nearly 25 for fifty miles there is no village, years back, during the war, a certain after that there Is one village and sO plot of land was taken by the military on. That way there cannot be from poor middle class people in Toly- any .ocial life for the people who gunge, Clacutta. Alter the war the mili- are settled there. tary left the area. That area wu occu- Fourthly, there should be B proper pied by ~ refug{!('s in the Toly- gunge area In my constituency. Those screEning before send'ng p'eople t. poor refuq'ees are not getting any re- Dandakaranya. Middle class anel pro- habilitation. As a result of that the fessional people should not be sent poor middle class owners are not to Dandakaranya, What would they getting bark their land and tlJere is do there? Therefore, a proper ,creell- ing should be done. perpetual quarrel between ~~ two section!, Both are poor. I approllched Lastly. there are some old scbemes the refugees and asked them to quit. and some new schemes are gomg to They say that they have not gilt any be formulated. They should be pro- rehabilitation, no alternative arran,e- perly developed So that without delay, ment has been mads for them. I not in that old manner but in a '95 II C'JIAlTRA 11, lase (SAKAl

    -complt!tely new manner, prope.r re- ~ it ~ ~ ~ ~ habilitatiOn schemes are evolved an!! -n they are Pllt into effect. Iflli ' 11 ~ m ~ 'liT11 ~ ~ if; 'wise therE) will again be calamity In India, in the State of West Bengal ~ ~ \3"f'l>1 ;;rnQr ~ Cfi{ and other Staes. This is the real ~ lfoTGtfto think over the matter seriously. Illf'f:l' l!>1 ~R -n 'l'itT ~ a-I ~ fifi« ~ ij- fif'l'f17r fll ~ ~ ;;rl f ~ m£'fo'il it ~ ~ ~ ~ El:1 ~ \fl: crg(!' 'If'<<0 'f11 ~ ~ ~ ~ .n-< 'to;n1.rhr if; ~ it ~ lIT11't ~ 'f¢1fr f'f ~ ilTa' 'ifT'f it; f;rfq f'f>'liT ilm 'filf 'f.CI' it ~ If ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ i!?r ~ ~ ~ ~ wn: 'Wl' if; e:c 'i'? ;;r:ifif I ¢Il Iller ~ ;fT ~ 95 13 Demands .APRIL e. 11164

    [>.it ~~ fur] ~ ~ tll'FI' ~ ~ 1 'fitiiij it, '3'"fiV ~ m;rcn ~ , m",,'i f;;r:i ~ ~ ~ , fu,'fj ~ ~ ~ I {l1"ifi[ ~~ ;n•..• , ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ fof;liT tT'iT t ~ ~ q<: ~ ;;-@ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 'fifR ~ ffi ~ CHAITRA IT. 1888 (SAKA) fa., Graftt.

    ~~~ I ~~ ~ ~ o.ft ~ mil' ~ ~ ttTif ~ if m'i ~ ~ 'l}r. ~ ~~ "-'1T ~ If'Ift<:r ~ 1S11' • ..-r't ~ ~ ~ m ~ ~ ~ fuf" ~ it ~ rior ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ;;:"Till ~ f'17 l11r ~~~~~ I ~ : Wi'.fr "iIifT 'lIT msiCi ~ ~ ~ 'f"lif: ~ ttrit it ~ ;;r1f"tOf ~ mitt ~~ ~ fq1iqTo ~ fOj; ~ ~~ tctPl ilt ofi I ~ ,,;:; t ~ fGOfitJ; frc ~ ~ if, ;ff,f ~ ;r@ ~ ~ I ;;j'" ~ ~ ~ ~~~ I Cfr<1T ~ ",,,,r, ~~ ~ q; f'f'lIT "'lit I ~ if ~~ ll1r '17fT' I!fT f'17 f;;rn ~ "I'Ol t!m'T : it mtrm mti9' it; '!'To Wilif ~ ~ ;;:m l1'!1if it; ~ ~~ irMn: ~ ~ G'<''fi ~ 0i7Br 'itfR ~ ilt ~ I ~~ 1 iffil6' ~ ~~ lIT GifT 'I7T i\: ~ I GlfnarOf T ID'f'fT 1ff ~ ~ ~ t, '3W!>'r ~ frrmrrr 'lim I crl1T iT m iiR1mTT ~ ~ """ wr<: m'1;r ~ trtf",T ~ ~ Hr ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <'!'irii ~ if@ ;fr ~ a.r a-

    II('( ~ ~ ~ if ~ I \iil'liT biggest refugee problem in history. My Government has so far sper.t ;r,lI' 'lOf,! *n: ~ I crFl' ~ ~ ~~ nearly 410 crores on their rehabilita- 'Pi ~ 'if;i::lif !!if ;rill' ~ I :or;r ~ 'ifOI'1 tion. ~ m ~ "I'1Ta- ~ if1"l'r ~ crp at As far as the Budget for the next ~ ~ 1I'

    Shri Mehr Chand KhaIma: What we did was-and I accept tull r

    Shri Basumatarl: What a shame! best of motives and intentions, per- haps we have to reverse the hands of Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: Then, the clock. with a view to take the thing to a logical conclusion, a conterence was About th's new wave of oppression held in Dacca. The then Mioncritie9 that has started ion East Pakistan, U Minister was Shri C. C. Biswas, He, has been mentioned by Shri Nirmal the Home Minister of West Bengal, the Chandra Chatterjee, three Ministers late Shri KaJipada Mukerjee and I went to Calcutta and I happened 10 bl! attended that Conference. There the QI.1e of them, After discussing the Government of Pakistan told U3 that matter w:th the State Ministers and a th9y promised t? infuse a smse of large number of ~ at security among was the., the Rehabilitation wh? only come with migration certi- MinistPr and he was assisted by two ficates, A dec' sian has been taken a"d ~ M'nisters. Shr! Tarunkanti that ~ is ~ implemented Ghosh and Shri Purbi Mukerjee. We and it is this that any person who hok a further df'Cision that as West comes from East Pakistan into Indil, Beng11 had reached a saturation point whether he comes into the Garo Hills and so was the case with th!, eastpm of Assam. whether he comes into Tri- St1t es. if we really m£'ant to rehabi- pura or whether he comes through the I'tate thf' displaced persons who had opf'n border of We..st Bongal, if it Is already come-at that time the num- certified that he has ('orne to India bnr in camps W:lS over 3 lakhs in West on or after the 1st J2I11U'lry, 1964, he B9ngal-we 5hould put a further curb will be entitled to rel;ef and rehabi- or restriction on the issue of the ~ litation benefit, ratiO>1 ~ We did it. We d'd it. because we wanted the minori- Shr! Bar! Vishnn Kamath: Cf'rtifif' the formalities was ct'iti('i'''d in West B€'npnl where and pcrhapg it win be ~ thnt T th!'rl ~ my office. Bnt I can AS- n gre,t m3jority of thE' nc"sons who sure the ~ that we did all tha.t hay£, come from ~ ~ into with the best of intent'ons and wit}> India have come without ~ th" b".t of mntivf's. Ag I said, to certificatps, So. that is not thp point. tu,." back into the pages Of history, The point ~ beforp Us is that I fpel, after thesp six years, that c!'rhin unfortunate cc.... dition.q have though we took that step with the been created. I do not want to go APRIL 8, 19M fOT Grant.. 9 [Shri Mehr Chand Khanna) into the basis of those unfortunate Now, here is something very startl- conditions. They are for the Home ing. I was told by some of the foreign Min sters of India and Pakistan to correspondents here 'You are very disCuss. examine and look into. But unkind to the Muslims here l the in- one thing is very obvious to me th)t filtrators here); you are sending them all this that has happcned-I am not back; yOU have hardly any rclugee saying so ~ I am only repeat- problem in the State.'. Now, they ing what h)s been told to me-:s the have gooe there, and seen things for result of del berate policy of the themselves and they have written a Pakistan Government that the mino- large number of articles. rities should be thrown out or squeez- ed out of East Pakistan. But here is something which I w'sh to place before the House, which hJ5 Shrl lIari Vishnu Kamath: Shame. not b2en said by me Or even by a member of the minority community Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: I am not from East Pakistan, whether Hindu, saying so. becJu'e I !m:)w nothing Chrisfan or Buddhist. This is the about :t; I have not been there. Easter bnadcast made by the Archbi- shop of Dacca. Slui Hari Vishnu Kamath: But my IIDn. friend has b('en there. Shri A. C. Guha (Barasat): Broad- cast from where? Shrl Ml'hr Chand Khanna: I have not been there. I h3ve only bcpn t? Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: I am the ~ I am coming to th1t point. sorry; it is not a broadcast; anyhow, My han. frictld may bear with me I am not sure about it. It is the Easter for a few ~ Message dated the 29th March. 191:54, given by Rev. Lawrence, Archbis'lop When I went' to the Garo Hills Rnd of Dacca. I am reading it out for the I saw a large number of refugees information of the House. there, I talked to them, and ~ of them told me these th·ngs. A very Shrlmatl Renu Chakravartty: It respected padiri told me that "We has come in the papers already. were told six months ago that 'You may sow the' harvest, but you shall Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: Whut my never be allowed to reap it'." I have hon. friend has said is such that on my right side a colleague of mine nothing of it has come in the papers, who three or four months ago came and she has said everything orIgInal and told me that this was what he had and new! In fact, I have ~ near- heard about the happenings in East ing al\ that story far the last ten Pakistan. Even then one may ~ years, and there is nothing new tnat or may not accept ~ face value the she has said. shtement of these unfortunate people who have told me that there is a deli- Shri Alvares (Panjlm): It is not berate policy of throwing out the startling because it has come in minorities from East Pakistan. But I want to refer to one thing. the papers already.

    Shl"i Hari Vishnu Kamath: When ~ Mehr Chand Khanna: The re- my han. friend had heard I"ke that levant passage which I am going to from t.is colleague, did he convey it read out has not come in the news- to the Prime Minister at that time? papers. Shri Mehr Chand Khanna It wa3 Some Hon, Members: All right, the only a mcmth or so when I went to hon. Minister may go ahead with th& Assam. quotation. 9527 CHAlTRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for Granu

    Sbri Mebr ChaDd Kba.DDa: The But one thing is obvious namely that Archbishop says: what the poor tribals told me-and they are very honest people-in the "Per'haps never bas there been Gar:! Hills has ~ repeated by no 10 much real physical and mental less an authority than the Arcllbisltbp suffering in this Archdiocese as of Dacca who lives in Pakistan and during lhe past month or two .... who should be fully conversant with They have been the vic' ims of har- the conditions there. a3sment, of menIal affiicti:m, of physical mistreatment. ... It is stated, and I think very earnest- --he was referring to the minorities ly, that those who want to come out, there, namely the Christians. Then, even under the Nehru-Liaquat Pact he says: have the free right to ~ away.

    ·"Their homes have been violat- Bu ~ that is not all that the Pakistan ed, ;heir sec uri 'y Of body and G:lvernment has done. Let me inform peace of mind lost. Conditions the House of one or two more things were so bad that the Christians, as to the way the minorities are being almost 30,000 of them, fled from treated there. I am quoting from The their, homes into India, leaving Amrih Bazar Pa!rika dated the 18th behind all their ear:hly posses- February, 1964, but I have got the sions. Some lost their lives; othnn official papers too. They promulgated were wounded; some are still an ordinance, Ih, ordinance t:l be under treatment in hospitals and known as the East Pakistan Disturbed camps.". Persons Rehabilitation Ordinance, 1964.. I would like the House to know what Now comes the real portion of the is being done under the Ordinance. message which I want to place before The paper says: the House. The Archbishop says: "The Ordinance also lays down ''It has been a sad experience f:!r that no deed of transfer Of the these ~ a time of real immovable property by a member sorrow.... But I was aware of the of the minority community will be danger long ago.... deemed to be valid and legal un- less it had been made with the He says: prior permission of the Deputy ''Not all of you are aware of Commissioner.... these happenings. But I wa, aware of the danger long ago, and Under the Nehru-Liaquat Pact, a I warned the Governmenl .." member of the minority community, whether in this country or in that -that reference ia to the GovernmeDt country, had the unrestricted right to Of Pakistan- dispose of his property. But, ~ " ...of what was likely to hap- ing t:l fue displaced persons whom I pen if strict measures were not have met in Mana and talked to, they taken to stop these injustices. said that previously they used to get Unfortunately, my warnings were ~ out of their property, but not heeded. I have spf'nt a great now they had been debarred under deal of time during these months this ordinance from doing anything. in the border area. trying to keep One or two more things also have our people from going away. YOII would n:lt believe that such things come to my n:ltice, and I feel it a part could happen in such a short of mY duty to take the House into time .... confidence in ~ to ~ Very recently. accordin£( to our information, I do not wont to make IIny .,ommen- Instl'uc'ion. had been issued by the tary on what the Archbishop has said. Government of East Pakistan for the APRIL 8, 111M 9S30

    [Shri !dehr Chand Khanna] .freezing of all provident fund dues of Shrlmatl Benu Chakranrtt,.: ThQ primary school teachers belonging to will not be rehabilitated at all, that a the minority community. If they want all. to come over to India, they cannot now Dr. Ranen Sea: They have not been realise or collect their provident funds. rehabilitated. There is one more thing in this con- nection. According to secret instruc- Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: Forty-two tions-it is very difficult for me to laldJs of displaced persons have come au'henticato these but my information from East Pakistan. I am talking of is also ~ and reliable-issued to East Pakistan. More than 32 lakhl the district officials, members of the are in West Bengal. Two-thirds of the minClritv community are not permitted lands have remained in East ~ to sell 'their movable properties also, In the truncated Stab of West Bengal. Immov3bl, property you cannot sell over and above their own population, withou' the permis,ion of the district they have got nearly 30 to 35 lakhs authoritios; movable property you can- of displaced persons already. The pro- not bring; provident funds are frozen, blem is of rehabilitation. When we are to be Ipft there. So, under these accep' it as a national problem. it iSi conditiJns. if 1 am asked thn question our dutv to sne that thf'Y are rrhabili- what I prnpose to do as the Rehabilita- tated. WI,y should it bother S'hrimati tion Minister, my only reply will be Renu Chakravartty, or for the mat'er this: I may have defaulted in the of that, Dr. Ranen Sen, whv should pas', I may not have stood by them thev ins;t a matter for me to decide colleague who has spent ~ not flhe:her a displaced person should days, but nights, he has looked in'o 'Ie rehabilitated in West Bengal, or the problems of these unfortunate peo- wh"her I should take him to Madhya ple. Pradesh, Orissa Or Maharashtra. That may be a matter for my friends oppo- Shrl Hart Vishnu Kamath: Nights ~ with the Chief Minister of West and days, not merely nights. ~ I do not come into that pic- 8hri Mebr Chand Khanna: Nights ure at all. and days. He has taken charge of the Mana camp. I have given him My posi'ion today Is that if we are ~ of the Dandakaranya Autho- ping to trf'at thi); problem as a rity. I have told him that any work n'ltinml problem and all the State !he wants to do in West Bengal, he iSi ~ are corning to my help, fully pntitled to do, and he shall have and if the West Bengal Government my full support and co-operation in feel, and do feel very rightly, that that matter. He has been there. What ·thpy rearhnd the ~ point long do they say? 19o, I cannot ask the State Govern- ment to ~ the displaced per- Sbrhnatl. Renu Chakravartty: Make ·.ons in that State. him the Minister. Demands CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) 1m- Gronts ~

    Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: The only Shri Dinen Bhattacharya (Seram- demand that they Ihave made is that pore): That is because you are sayin, camps should be opened in West Ben- something absurd . .ial. That is all. Shrimatl Renu Chakravartty: He Dr. RaDen Sen: No, no. makes a hullabalOO.

    Shrimati Rena Chakravartty: We Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: He is read- have not asked for that. If those who ing from Amrit Bazar Patri/ca but has have come to West Bengal and are not seen this statement. staying there, want some assistance, you should give it. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: No, no. They have said t!hree things: firstly, Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Yester- conditions in Mana camp are not very day, I was told that if I did not give good; secondly Shri Mehr Chand in, as Shri Kamath did not give in, I Khanna should resign. (Interruptions) had the right- . Do not get excited. Thirdly, camps :should be opened in West Bengal. Shrl Hari Vishnu Kamath: I gave in Why? Because some ot my triend! once or twice. He forgets. wish to repeat the same old story. Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: I have Shrimati Rena Chakravartty: This not seen that scheme. I want to make js the petty outlook of Shri Khanna, it absolutely clear. Sclhemes are to not a national outlook. You have no be formulated by the ~ Govern- big iIleart. You always bring in party ments and not by the Government of politics. India. That is the first point. Theil, Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: I am not they have to decide about the suit- interested in Bengal politics. My abili ty of lands and all that. I do Deputy Minister may be, he cornell not do so. Hundred per cent financs from that State. I am a S'ateless man, are provided by the Government of with no language, nothing to fall back India and not by the State Govern- upon. My province has remained on ment. As regards the Sunderbans, I the other side of River Indus, and had not gone into the details of thla bere I am. scheme, but I can tell the House from my own experience that we formulated Shri H. N. Mukerjee (Calcutta Cen- a scheme called tlhe Herobhanga tral): Why does the Minister brush scheme. I think Shri Chatterjee will aside the suggestion ot a veteran bear me out, though he cannot agree Gandhiist like Shri Satish Chandra with me. We formulated the Hero- Dasgupta that a million people can be bhanga scheme. I went there myself. settled in West Bengal in the Sunder- That scheme was formulated. That bans area and in the northern districts? scheme cost us many lakhs at rupees. It Is not we alone. Please do not make It was done during the time at t!he us the target of your political attack. late Dr. B. C. Roy. But in spite of the It has nothing to do with your job. lakhs and lakhs at rupees that we Please try to do something to help spent on ihI hope the Chairman of :them. the PAC will not take notice of it, and my hon. lady friend from Assam will Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: I am not throw it at my face-what hap.- grateful to Shri H. N. Mukerjee for pened after three years was that 1Jhis baving reminded me about the obser- area was found to be full of creeks; vations made by Shri Satish Chandra the soil Is below the sea-level and the Das Gupta. I have not been told any- creeks have to be plugged. Even with thing about It. (Interruption). This five years' monsoon. thn salinity of the running 'COmmentary Is going anI soil cannot be washed away. 1l!(Al)I.SD-7. 9533 Al"RlL 8, 1984

    ~ Bon. Member: Why did you cor- rect it? thing I have done in my own Minis- try. We have appointed a very senior Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Because officer in charge of rehabilitation. We I made a mistake. I am not going to have strengthened the rehabilitation make another mistake even if he wants department. We are appointing liai- me to do so. son officers between the Government Shri A. C. Guha: Before that scheme of India and the State Governments. was taken up, I think that there was I am even thinking that if circum- an insistent demand from that side of stances warrant, we may have to re- the House for taking up that scheme. slart our branch secretariat in Cal- cutta. Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: I was new to Bengal. I succumbed to that One thing more I might say as well, pressure, ljttle realising .... kn'lw the feelings of the House and their desire for the relief and rehabili- Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Shri tation of these unfortunate victims of Guha has changed: he was in tears a communal frenzy; if in the near future, little while ago. we come to the conc!usinn that there is no possibility of this exodus going Dr. Ranen Sen: They were crocodile down, I assure the House that I would tears! be the first to g:J to the Prime Minis- ter of India and tell him tha t ~ time Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: I have has come when a s<'parate Rehabilita- yery little lime left. So, I would like tion Ministry should be created. (In- tc go to the basic things. Firstly. I terruptions) . agree that this is a new problem whkh has been thrust upon us, and Shri C. K. Rhattacharyya: Why not though the magnitude and Ihe size of tell him now' the problem is not known and is de- pendent completely upon the mercy of Shri Mehr Chand KJlanna: You Pakistan, this problem has to be dealt know the rC'3sons. (Interruptions). with on an emergency basis. We have Before I go to th" residuary problem, taken a few steps and I would like to I would like to make certain observa- enumerate them. The first step is that lions. I feel that in the past the I have requested the State Govern- history has repeated, and the exodus ments that a senior Minister Should of the minorities from East Pakistan be put in charge of rehabilitation. is an unending problem-the first spurt, the second spurt, the An Bon. Member: He has already third spurt and the fourth been put. spurt. In spite of all that,' I wisl,l to appeal to the Home Minister '1f Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: I have Pakistan who is coming here tomor- leen; I have gone there. I have met row-I and he both come from the a large number of Chief Ministers. A same place. senior Minister should be put in charge of rehabilitation and some Chief Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: That Ministers themselves have agreed to is the reason. take over tfue rehabilitation portfolio. Another thing that we have done is Shrl Ban Vl9hnu Kamath: It will that a senior officer should be put in be helpful. sole charge of the rehabilitation work. Thirdly, we have told the State Gov- Shrl Mebr ()hand Khanna: You ap- ernments that the relief and rehabili- peal even to the foreilnl countriu ,atioD departments tn their States When I appeal to a ~ of mine. should be strengthened. The same you ·are gettln&: excited. Demands CHAl'I'RA 17, 1886 (SAKA) 10T Grant!

    liml Had Vishau Kamatb: I said, it this country and give them equal wUl be helpful. rights, if we can shoot people in Jam- shedpur, Rourkela and in th'o! streeta Shl1i Mehr Chand Khanna: It should of Calcutta to conserve our secular be helpful. Mr. Habibullah Khan is a aspect, this little thing does not worry Pathan and he CDInes from the North- us. But what worries us is this. If West Frontier Province. He is one of we are in a position to create a sense those persons who has sacrificed a lot of security amongst the rniru>rities in the emancipation of the motherland. hCl't--they can even reach the highest 1 have not seen him.... office of the ,State-I expect from my tWD Path an colleagues-whether I ap- Shrimatl Renu Chakravartty: Like peal to them in the name of the Gen. Ayub Khan, hl' is also a Pathan. Patnan code of honour 0iI' not- I certainly wish to tell them that a Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Gen. st" f" of affairs like that might have Ayub Khan, is also from the same not very desirable repercussions. We part of the country that come from. I want to avoid that. We do not want those repercussions. But there are Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: But men like Shri Bishanchander Seth, Badshah Khan is not of your type. Shri Bade and others in this House Shri Mt'hr Chand Khanna: The who do not agree with me, who do not Minister of Parliamentary Affairs says agree with my line of approach. I am in good company! Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: They. Shri C. K. Bhattacharyya: If the Pakistani frit'nds are not your may interrupt the hon. Minister. coll(·agues. From the floor of the House, some time back he made an appeal to Gen. Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: I have Ayub Khan's Path an code of honour. read the resolution of the Hindu Maha- Will he say what reply he has got' sabha this morning. to that appeal to the Path an code of honour? The reply has come in the Shrl P. Venkatasubbalah (Adoni): form of this fourth exodus. (Interrup- tions). Does Shri Badrudduja agree with you?

    S1:rl Mehr Chand Khanna: He will Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: If the never agree with me. He will agree mood of the House is that no appeal with me when it suits him. should be made to the Government of Pakistan, certainly I will stop it Shri Bade (Khargone): I do not there. But my only feeling is that agrp., with you. When in East Pakis- the conference which is going to tan thousands of Hindus are being be held tomorrow should succeed. massacred you are sitting silent here and the Members are shedding tears When we have 4! to 5 crores of Muslims in this country, when the here. Muslim population in this country is more than the total· population of Shrl Mehr Chand Khanua: I have East Pakistan or for the matter of every sympathy for them. I know that, of West Pakistan or nearly 50 what killing and shooting is. I have per cent of the two put together, ours seen innocent people killed and shot is a secular State and to us the ques- before these unfortunate eyes. I have tion of a few thousands of infiltrants told yOU as a Rehabilitation Minister here or there is not a very important that this Government or this Ministry question .. The Government of Pakis- shall not be found wanting in giving tan must realise that if we can give thein relief and rehabilitation. 1 lecurity to 5 ·crores of Muslim. in have said so before and I repeat it. 9537 Demands APRIL 6, 19640 for Grants

    [Shri Mehr Chand Khanna] ter and myself. The former Finance I just want to take five or ten Minister, Shri Morarji Desai was also minutes on the residuary problem. there. It is all recorded. Schemes to The residuary problem of West Ben- the extent of Rs. 8 crores and odd ,al is not denied. have already been sanctioned. Sche- mes to the extent of Rs. 15 crores still Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: It is IItill remain to be sanctioned. I told the residuary? Rehabilitation Minister, Shrimati Ava Maiti only a few days ago to send up Shri Mehr ChaDd Khanna: Do you these schemes because we want to know the meaning of the word "resi- sanction them. After the schemes are duary". sent up, sanctioned and implemented, I am certain that there shall be no problem, either residuary or partially Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Please rehabilitated, in West Bengal. Till educate us. these schemes are sanctioned this problem is there. Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Certain- ly I can. "Residuary" is residuary. If we assess the entire problem, Now, the hon. lady Member made what remains to be tackled is called a reference to the non-payment of ·the residuary problem. You may call compensation to the displaced persona it a t)rn'.';c·m of partially rehabilitated. who have come from East Pakistan By whatever name you may call it, into India. She also reminded me we accept that there is a problem. I about my promise in regard to the also accept the statement made by remission of loans. Sir, the position one of our eminent Congress leaders. stated by her is entirely correct. To say that he has done it after ten The same was mentioned by Shri or twelve years, I thi.nk, is perversion Guha, one of the best friends of the of truth. For seven ) ears when I Ministry and the refugees, who takes stayed in Calcutta and even after that, always a rational and practical view I have received admirable help from of things. He has been impressing that great gentleman. He IS a Mem- upon us this, and very rightly. The ber of this House. What he has said position is, as far as displaced persons is correct. I dO not deny it as a Reha- from West Pakistan are concerned, we bilitation Minister. But, Sir, the as- have given them compensation for the pect of the matter is that this prob- properties left in West Pakistan. lem of partially rehabilitated or resi- There is the contribution from the duary problem, as was indicated by Government of India as well as large my colleague, was assessed with the evacuee interests, left by the Muslims Chief Minister of West Bengal, the here. There is no such thing as eva- late Dr. B. C. Roy. We assessed it cuee Muslim interests in West Bengal; two or three years ago when Dr. B. C. Shri Bhadrudduja would bear me out, Roy was alive. In terms of money as also Shri Elias. There is no eva- the assessment was Rs. 23 crores. cuee property there.

    Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: We have got a letter from the Govern- It is accepted that when the loans were given in the beginning they ment of West Bengal saying that it is Ra. 60 crores. were given in driblets. It is also ac- cepted that though the loans given t. the displaced persons of West Pakis- Shri Mehr Chand KhaJUla: You can tan were adjusted as public dues no go on quoting the West Bengal Gov- remission has been made there, as we ernment when it suits you. That is had no evacuee property there. ~ always the case with you. It was as- matter was placed before the Cabinet, sessed between the Chief Minister of it has been before the Finance Minis- West Bengal, the present Chief MinIs- try and it has been accepted that 109.1111 CHAITRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) Jor Grant, 9539 Demands

    should be remitted to the displaced dred per cent responsibility of loan. persons from East Pakistan who have will be that of the Government of settled either in West Bengal, Bihar, lIldia. Then, we have excluded cer- Orissa, 1 .P. or Assam. I will give you tain categories like RERB loans, bi, the gist of the decision that we have businesB loans and RFA loans. taken. 1 might tell the House thllt the financial implications of this deci- Shrimati ReBU Chakravar1tJ: Ax. lion are likely to be anything like you including RBRB loans? Rs. 50 crores, if not more. The total amount of loans given right from the ShrI Mehr Chand KhaDBa: Co beginnin.5 up till today is Rs. 80 crores you reasonably expect RBRM loans to in the ,-,astern region. We have not be inclUded? That is excluded; sO also been ~ to collect the data, and that RFA loans and big business loan•. i. one leaSOn why we delayed tha Yet, the impact of the remission will ~ of the decision. be more than Rs. 50 crores.

    Shrt B:art Vishnu Kamath: Includ- We are issuing instructions to the ing inter ~ State Government. on the followin, lines. The remission proceedinp will Shrt IIlehr Chand JDwma: I am .tart only when the complete 101iJl eoming 10 that. I will give you all burden of a family had been worked that. It will be anything like RI. 110 Gut and known; in other ?"ords, indi- arorllll, if not more. vidual loan accounts are to be prepar- ed and considered on the basis 01 tbI I am making a categorical statement above formula. We have given full an behaH of the Government of IndiL authority to the State Government.. The decision that is taken is this: (1) that loans advanced to the displaced Secondly, each case should be pro- persons from East Pakistan will be Hued by the district authority and far remitted up to the extent of RI. 1,000 this purpose the Finance Department. in each case; (2) that if after remi5-. of the State Governments will la}, .Ion 'as stated above, there Is any down the drilL A co-ordinated state- balance left, the amount in excess of ment should be furnished to the Cenu- BII. 2,000 will also be remitted. WIle- al Government showing the amount re- Iller we have given a loan of RI. 3,000 mitted during that particular quarter. or 4,000 or 5,000, whatever the amount This Is necessary in order to make a JIlay be, no refugee shall be asked to countervailing provision in the rev.. pay back more than RI. 2,000. J Due budget of the Government at thmk that will be within his paying India against which the loans wiIoI capacity. No.3, fOr the information bave to be adjusted. .f Shri Kamath .... It will be IeeD Utat the real a.G Shrl Bari Vishnu Kamath: What II honest intention is that the residuar1 that? problem and the problem of partially rehabilitated in the State Of ~ Shri Mehr Chand KhanDa: •••• DO Bengal should be liquidated velf interest would be charied on the soon. For that we are making a amounts remitted. provision of Rs. 115 aores. Again, loans which have been given in drl- Shrt Bar! Vishnu Kamath: Some- blets or loans which go beyond a cer- ihing at least. tain ceiling are both to be remitted and scaled down and the impact of l' Shrt Mehr Chand Khanna: No, 4, will be more than Rs. 50 crorCL With the State Government will be absolved these two decisions I am more tho Clf the responsibility to share any por- confident and certain that the p:oblelJl tion of the loss on loans; that Is, hun- .. the partian)" rehabilitated in tla 9541 APRIL 8, 19M 9542 [Shri Mehr Chand Khanna] eastern region will be completely re- Slui Mehr ChaDd Khanna: He iI aD 8Olved. old friend of mine. May I take the House and you, Sir, into confidence Shrimati ReIW Chakravartty: today? When I came to India and I Rs. 15 crores will not do. had no shelter, this great man gave me shelter for two years. I will alwayw Sbrl !Wehr Chand KhaD.Ila: I know, remain grateful to him. Whatever he you will issue a statement today or may say. about it, I know, in his heart tomorrow that the Government of of hearts he has a tremendous amount India has done nothing. The moment of affection for me. you start appreciating our good acts, the world will come to an end.

    Shrimati Bena Chakravartt,.: I have ~~~ ~~ .aid that Rs. 15 crores is very little ~~ I IImount. That is all I am saying. Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: He hal Shrf Mebr Chand Khanna: I thought to justify his existence on the other the han. lady Member who spoke side; otherwise, Shri Nath Pai and 15 minutes ago about compensation others will start ~ him. 86, and remission of loan will at least never mind. have a word of praise for us; but I am asking for the moon. I assure you, Sir, I am asking for the moon. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Shri That is my experience of this han. Nath Pai is too good to suspect any- lady for the last 15 years. I have no body without sufficient causl'. I(l'ouse. I still have great regard for her. She writes to me a bunch of letters. Whenever she writes, I writt" Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: These two back to her. I try my level best .... points were made by him. I have taken a large number of measures to see Shrimati Bena Chakravartty: Thn'e that We eradicate corruption. I do not years you have .... want to go into them one by one be- cause my time is already up. Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: But I know one thing for certain, namely. that her's is a case of beating the Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Up to sands or blowing the air. as far as this 5.30. feld is concerned, nothing will grow. Th"t is my honest feeling. Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: Not that. Shri Barl Vishnu Kamath: Why My timp is up to 5 o'clock. bring in the poor moon' Why do you ask for the moon1 Shrl Harl Vishnu Kamath: I am Jure, Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: You are you I'xtended the time. ls it not? He a mischievous man, I am not. I have can go on for the whole day. taken nearly an hour; I was given only 50 minutes. Shri Kamath yes- Shrl Mehr Chand Khanna: We have terday made two points about thl' also taken certain measures ~ brIng CPWD one about corruption and thl' down the cost. I wish to tell you that other ~ high cost. within the next two or three days I shaH circulate a note to all the Mem- Shrl Kapar Slngb (Ludhiana): He bers of Parliament indicating the s1;ep. paid a tribute to you also. that we have taken both in the matte-r 9543 Demands CHAlTRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) for Grants 9S44

    .of eradication of corru,ption fr:>m the Sbri Mehr Chand. Khanna: AJJ far u ~ as I said last ~ if you resources are concerned, though we ~ for 100 per cent slltisfaction, no· have spent up till now more than bodT can gi.ve you. Rs. 400 crores and we have given a large sum of money in the Sbri Bart Visluau Kamath: \K) pel' payment of compensation, there is cent. a further provision of Rs. 50 crores that we are going to Shri Mehr Chand. KhaDaa: I am make. The resources will be internal ,satdsfied more than 90, 50 or 80 ~ far as I am concerned, we have per cent-it ,is a question of received no help from anv org:misa- oompa:rative degree-that this De- tion from outside India in combating partment has pulled up and is this big problem. I have no intention doing extremely well I admit, we of doing that. But I shall bring tOte do make mistakes. We may have suggestion of the hon. Member to the made a mistake in the Lodi House. I notice {}f the Prime Minister-that might even' make a mistake in the this is his wish-that an appeal should construction of the Constitution House; be made on an all-India or world but one thing I can assure my hon. basLs. friend and that is that the plaque will be there and in that plaque or what- ever it is called-he has written to me, Shrl Harl Vishnu Kamath: Please I have answered questions; he has also say you agree with me. That is written to the Prime Minister of India all. and I have sent him a reply, but as be has mentioned it in the open 'IT 101T'" ~ : mr

    Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: On a point of information, Sir. It is not a "" Wf ~ qm ( uq;f'!ft) question but only a point of informa- ~~~~~ ~~ tion. May I know whether the Minis- ter proposes to issue an appeal, in ~ ~~ I ~~ I connection with the rehabilitation o'f these lakhs and millions of ~ coming from East Pakistan for raising Mr. Deputy.Speaker: Order, order. resources at home and abroad to all May I know which of the cut 'llotiona organisations, governmental and non- are to be put separately? goverrunental, official and non-official, philanthropic institutions both in India 'l'T ~ In" : ~ and abroad for resources to rehabilitate these unfortunate retugeei! ~~~~~~ 954S Demandl APRIL 8, 1964 fOT Grants 9546

    Shrl Harl Vishnu Kamath: No no. "It ~ : ~ ~ ~ The cut motion was not given on that .-rc q"{ ~ <'frlr ~ ~ ~ gq; ~~ date. Later on, when it was brought 1l'ifr ~~ T

    Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I haft ~ ,hrl Harl Vishnu Kamath: What caD nounced it to the House which of th. I do? They might have been D.i.slaid. CUt motions are moved according to slips received. It there was any mi... Mr. Deputy-Speaker: i[ am ve1'7 take, you couV! have brought it to my .orry. notice. I am sorry I cannot do it at th:s stage. Shall I put all of them to- Shri Harl Vildma l[amttb: You gether? Ibould not be &0 mechanical Shrlmati Renu Chakravartty: CIrt motion No. 28 may be put separatel,. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That Will not tlven on the Table or moved. I am Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The Quelt1Ol1 lOrry. I have no information. is:

    Shrl Hari Vishnu Kamatb: But I "That the Demand under the ,ave it to them. The Speaker has Head Expenditure on displaced allowed thig in a previous case in the persons be reduced by R~ 100. case of Prof. Ranga. I do not remem- ber whiCh Ministry it Will. (Failure to make arrangement for resettlemen of the refugees comiDJ to India from East Pakistan)". Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That wu before the discussion. The Lok Sabha divide4. 9547 Demands CHAlTRA 17. 1888 (SAKA) fOT Grant!

    DivisioD No. IS) AYES

    Alvarel, Shri Xachhavaiya. Shrl Nair. Shri Vamdena Bade. Shri Kamath. Shri Had Vilhnu Nath Pai, Shri Sagri . Shri ~ Singh. Shri C'lnl;.arlal Berwa, Shri Bhattacharya, Shri Dinm Knohen, Shri Ranga, Shri Chakrllvartty. Slu.lolOiti Reo. Lahri Singh. Shri Singhyi. Vr. L. M. Deo, Shri P. K. Lalit S .. n. Shr; Swamy, Shri Sbivamurthi Dwivedy. Shri Surendranatk Mehta. Shri Jalh .. n. Utiya. Shri Elia", Shri Muhammed Muteriee. Shri H. N. Yada. ,shri Rim S ...ak Gupta, Shri Indrajit Murmu, Shri Subr YIOpal Slnab, Sbd ]ha. Shri Yoa_ndra NOES

    Atkamma Dni, Shrimad Kamble. Shri Ram S ..leup, Slut Aba, Shri Joachim Kayal. Shri P.N. lUDe. Shri An.y. Dr. M.S. Khanna. Shri M.hr CIwId RIO. Dr. K. L.1 Babunoth Sinlh. SIu( Kri.hna. Shri M. R. Ro,. Shri Bi.h.. _b Balmiki. Shri La,br. Shri N. R. Saba. Dr. S. K. Baaappa. Shri Lonikar. Shri Somanta. Shri S. C. •••umatuf. Sbrl Mandai, Shri YIID\III& PnaacI Sarm.. Shri A. T • Bam, Shri Mantri. Shri Satyabhaml Devi. Shrimati Bhanja Deo. Shri L.R. Marandi. Shri Shinkere. Shri M. P. Bah"acharyya. Shri C.IC. Mehrotra. Shri Bnl BIhaI IIhree Narayan Daa. Shrl Brahm prataah. Shri Mina. Shri Bakar Ali ShJomkumari Devi .SIutIlUli Bnjethwar Pra.. d. Sbri Miahn. Shri Bibhuti 5iddananilPP.. Shri Btii Raj Sinlh. Shri Mi.... Shri Shyam Dhu Siddiah, Shri ~ Shri P.R. Mohanty. 5hri G. 5idheabw.. Proaad. ShIIiI Chanda. Shrtmat I,ollna Morarb. ShrI, Singh. Shri K. K. Cbandrabban Sinah, Shri More. Shri K. L. Sin,h. Shri R. P. Chaudhry. Shri C.L. Mokane. Shri Singh.. Shri G. K. Chavda. Shrimatl Mukerjee. Shrima.i Sbarda Sinha, Sbirrnati Tod:ooInoui D ... Shri B.K. Munmi, Shrj Daaid SonavarJr. Shri Du.ShriN.T. Murthy. Shri B. S. Subbaraman. Shri Co Da.. Shri C. Muthiah. Shri Tontia. Shri Ramelh_ Deo Bhan;. Shrl P.e. Nait. Shri D. J. Thimmltiah. Shri Deahmukh. Shri B. D. Nashr. Shri P.s. Ti... ..,.. Shri D.N. Deahumukh. Shr; SIU.aJIIt_ i. OOZ&. Shri Tonabi. Shri De" Shri S. K. Pande,. Shri R. S. Tula Ram. Shrl Diahe. Shri Pant, Shri K. C. Uike" Shri

    Dubey, Shri R.Q. Parasbar I Shri Ulaka. Shri Pirodi•• Shri Pltel, Shri P. R. Upadha,a. Shri Shift DvW Goba. Shri A. Co PatU. Shri D. S. Vai,hy•• Shri M.B. Himalllngka. Shri PatU. Shri T.A. Val";.ShrI Jadhav. Sbrj M.L. Rai. Shrimlti Sahodnbol Vtnbtasubbaiah, Shri •. Jadhav. Shri Tulohl48 Ra;u, Shri D. B. Wadi.a, Shri Jcnl, Shri aam, Shri T. "adaT. Shri N. P. J,otiahl. Shri J. P. Ram Subhall Singh. Da. Yadu'. Sbri RaJI) ~

    Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The result of The cut fI&Otions WeTe put aad "0-- the division iI: tived.

    Ayes 28; Noel 102. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: NoW' I ... The motiO!l IDIU negatived. put the remaining cut motion'.

    Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Now I shall All the othe1' cut motions tDer. "... put cut motioza 63 and 64 to the House. and negatived. APRIL 6, 1964 9S$O Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question whiCh will cOme in coursil of pay- Ja: ment durin, the year ending the ''That the respective sums not 31st day of March, 1965, in respect exceeding the amunts shown in the of 'Stationery and Printing'." fourth column of the order paper be granted io the President, to DEMAND No. 93-ExPENlIITURE OK complete the sums necessary to DIsPLACED PuSONS defray the charges that will come "That a 6um not exceed.Ulg in course of payment during the Rs. 7,74,85,000 be granted to the year ending the 31st day of March President to complete the sum ne- 1965, in respect of the heads of cessary to defray the charges demands entered in the second which will come in course of pay- column thereof against Demand. ment during the year ending the Nos. 90 to 94 and loll to 143 relat- 31st day of March, 1965, in respect ing to the Ministry of Works, of 'Expenditure on Displaced Housing and Rehabilitation." Persons',"

    The motion was adopted. DEMAND No. 94-OTm:R REVENUE Ex- PENDITURE OF THE MINISTRY OF (The Motions of Demands faT GTants WORltS, HOUSING AND REHABrLrrATIOIf which weTe adopted by the HOII.

    .DEMIND No. 143-<>THER CAPITAL OUT- President to complete the sum ne- LAY OF THE MlNIBTRY OF WORKS, cessary to detray the charges HGUSING .urn REHABILITATION which will come in course of pay- ment during the year ending the "That a ,urn not exceedin, 31st day of March. 1965. in restlect of 'Community Development Pro- RI. 7.90.12.000 be granted to the jects. Natiooal Extension Service President to complete the sum ne- Cooperation'." cessary to defray the charges and whiCh will cOme in course of pay- ment during the year ending DEMAND No. llZ--CAPITAL OUTLAY OF the 31st day of March, 1965. in THE N!INISTRY OF COMMUNITY Dzvz- respect of 'Other Capital Outlay LOPMENT AND COOPERATION of the Ministry of Works, Housing and Rehabilitation·... Mr. Deputy-Si-ker: Motion mov- ed: IUB hn. "That a sum not exceeding Rs. 12,83,000 be granted to the MIlfI8TRY OF CoMMUlfITY Di:vzLOP- President to complete the sum ne- MENT AND CO-OPERATIOI( cessary to defray the charges which wilJ come in course of pay- :\Ir. ~ Now we take ment during the year mding the' 4p the discussion on the Demands for 31st day of March, 1965, in re,pect Grants under the control of the Minis- of 'Capital Outlay Of the Ministry try of Community Development and of Community Development and Co-operation. Co-operation·...

    DEMAND No. I-MINISTRY OF COMMU- Members who want to move their NITY DEvELOPMENT AND CO-OPERA- cut motions will pleaSe send their nON. chits to the Table in ten minutes.

    Mr. Deputy-Speaker: MaLon mov- ~ 'lft ~ ~ (Mw ): ;aqr- ~ ~ ~ ~ qp- 'That a sum not exceeding ~~ ~ ~ ~ I1i':1T ~ if ~ ~ lIT f'fmf lopment and Co-operation·... if; 'fT+f q< 'fiTlf ~ ~ 't, ;a;:r if if ffr ~ 1fT m<:;:r 'fi1t ~ ~ DEMAND No. 2--COMMUNlTY D!:vJ:- ~ ~ ;;ft ~ ~ if; ~~ ~ I LOPMENT PROJECTS NATIONAL Ex- 'l'ENSION SERVICE ~ CO-OPERATION ~ mm ~ m<: artt ri<:m ~ lJilf ~~ ~ ~ ~~ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion mov- ~~ ~~~~~~ oed: ~ mq rm:, ~~~~ ...m!f;l1' l1iif r,lt it 'I!'TtEf iT;;r;;m if; c; 0 lIfmm ~ '"!'hat a sum not exceeding Re. 5,22,90,000 be (ranted to the ifi''T ~ ifi'T ~ ~ ~ Demanda 10f' Grantl

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I ~ 8"f' W it ~ fir.it qo)'?: G'<: trqT I tN" t flf. m it ;;rr( ~ iii e'i1: ~ 'fiT ~~ ~ 'f(f l IqT-;m:T !f,J ~ f'fliT vmIT ~ ~ ~ ~ it oiT"f.t 'f.T ;;ft if,T1i 'IT ~ WT1i «'ifT1I'T it \ft ~ '"1m t, ~ ~ if ff'I'Ii ~ q ~ fif,lfT I ~ C!f't'If :a;f.i; mr ~ ~ ott ron it tv ~ ijr 'R!' iJ'l>' ~ ~~ ~~~ I ~~~ ~ m ~ flI; ~ 'Efq- ~ !fiT If.T1f ~ «·rfOJ ~ ;;mil{ , t ~ 'Eflf if; ~ !f.Tm 'I111T lV f'qmtr if; f.,ro; ~ rrrr ~ T1J

    fl1<:rn I ;U ~ m,f'f "'I' ~ lfo1: ~ Wl'J"l: if; 'f>T7t'fl+i ~ "iT ~ 73"'l

    ~ if; m- li' ~ 't Wi'lT ~~~~~~ q<; mm ~ I ~ ~ ~ if; ij'f"cT'fT ~ it ~ 1f;lf ~ ~ ~ I ~ it. ~~ 'fi'T ~ ~ it ~ ~ lfi1 ~ if; 'IT'll' qT 'An: ~ mr mft cnrrt ~ ~ I TI'I' ~

    ['-ft ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ -;;;r tn: Ifi1lr \if!m "'" ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ if; ~ 'fm" ~~ "') ~~ ~~ Ifi¥T ~ if; llll(?fT Ifi1' ~ ~ q "{)I!iin' «-;;;r l!i1 Ci1:'f. ~ ~ If.IlI' ~ ~ ~ ~~ I mr ~ if; ~ 1l ;;@ ~ ~ fqrnr ",1 ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If< m\if ll5 snI'fo'r ~ ~ ~ &ifF \m if srfi'f ~ &I 1l ~~~~ ~ ~ l2if1 ~ ;Ir< ~ tn: ~ ~ Wn ;IT<: ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~Rt ~ a) f ';!i'ifll ~ if mim it 'fT(:f ~ I if; f1il1J; ;;@ (1'1 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ &flf. ~ <'fAA :T.ft lITCI'1T ~ ~ "IflCfifT G'if ;;W 1 G"f.t ~ if.\" ifi"T ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ 1 i'{ ~ if; ~ .m: ;;r;m 1R" ~ T ~ ~ ~~~~~ ~~ 'I'ffl ~ ~ II1't .m ~ l¢t "{'fiT ~ ~ ~ t, ~ 'filillf;;rn fit "tI1r. ~ iI"rn ~ ~ ~ ~ q nr ~ ~ iii ~ ~ ~ ~ "It Demand.r 9559 CHAlTRA 17, 1886 (SAKA) 9560

    ~ t 1 ~ ~ ~ ~ f.f arT qf1r ~ ~ iii<: t ~ ~ m{ ~ srfufilff.T ~ ~ iii< f<{ll T ;;rrit I" qrtf it ~ fm ~ ~ it ~ ~ ~ 1!f ~ ~ lIllT mr ~ 3tfafilff.T, ~ cf ~ fOl'T elq org-a ~ IJfr.r ~~ ~ Shri Sivamurthi Swamy (Koppal): ~ ~ ~ if ~ ~ ~ ,.-aifT ~ I beg to move: ~ ~ ~ f,llTU ef.n1 ~ ~ OfTf<{i en;: \RTif Development and Co-operation be reduced by Rs. 100." Iii<: ~ ~ 1 \3ij" '-11f <{il ~ ~ it ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 1 \3if [N eed to liberalise the policy for giv- ..n"lf1fiT Tli'J!\1f it ~ T 5Tl!Tij" f<{il!T I'fl!T ~ li([ ~ ~ ~ "f'fi ~R flfifm ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \3';; ilil lIi'ii <{ir 5T..ml' ilil< ij.<;frw:r' Wfq- it WcMcr ~ \3Q'ifT ~ ~ f;;ra;;r f

    [Shri P. K.. 000] It is clear frOm this that the commu- ''That the demand under the nity development and the co-operative head Capital Outlay of the Minis- movement in this country, under the" try of Community Development present dispensation, have been made and Cooperation be reduced by as hand-maidens of democratic socia- Rs. 100." lism.

    [Need to tronsfer sub;ect, relating to Without saying something about the agT'.:ultural imPTovement and re- basic character Of Democratic Socia- search to the Ministry of Food and lism, therefore, it is not possible pro- Agriculture. (ll)] perly to appreciate the Report which has been presented by this Ministry before the House. "That the demand under the head Capital Outlay of the Millis- try of Community Development Democratic Socialism is not, strict- and Cooperation be reduced by ly, a logical concept. As I said on an Rs. 100." earlier occasion in my speech on the Railway Budget, Democratic Socia_ lism is. fried snowballs. It belongs to {Unsatisfactory condition of agricul- the realm of a logic which is not com- tural finance and marketing and con- monly appreciated by the average tribution to National Cooperative citizen. There are two systems of Development and Warehousing logic prevalent. One is the Aristote- Board. (12)] lian logic and the other is paradoxical logic. Democratic Sociali,m belongs Shrl Yashpal Singh: I beg to move: to the realm of paradoxical logic and not to that of Aristotelian logic. ''That the demand under the Aristotelian logic, as the hon. Mem- head Ministry of Community bers know. is grounded in the simple Development and Cooperation be Principle of Identity which saYS that reduced by Rs. 100." A is A. Arristotle himself. in his 'Metaphysics', has said that "it is im- ~ for the same thing. at the ,[Need to lower the rates of interest same 'time to belong to and not to charged by Cooperative Banks from belong to the same thing." But th!' farmers. (15)] basic postulate of the other loltic. tc which this shibboleth of Democrati, Shrl Kapur Singh: Mr. Deputy- Socialism belongs. namely, paradOx! Speaker, Sir, here I have this Report cal logic, is as follows: of the Ministry of Community Deve- lopment and Co-operation for the year "A is not-A. A and not-A do 1963-64 which we are now discussing not exclude each other as preeii- on the floor of this House. Chapter cates of VI, page 34 of this report contains the X." remark:

    The basic principle of thiq logic hal "If democratic socialism is to been first defined by the ancient be realised, its base will have to Chinese philosopher, Chuang-Tzu. He be the rural sector. Panchayatl explains the bnsic postulate of thl. Raj, Sahakari Samaj and Samu- logic in these words: 'hak Vikas are the pillars upon which rural sector has to resusci- "That which is one Is one. Thlt tate Itself." which is not-one is alao one." De"a,1flI CHA.I'I'RA 17, 18811 (SAltA) 9S64

    I lave takea thll quotation from the it Is the Marxist msytique. (IntlTTUp- jat;Tw Boou 01 the EClst-Volwne ~ tion). 1 have not been able 'e follow pwbliahe. in Oxllrcl, plie 120. the interruptar. If the hOIl. Member will identify himseU 1 lIliiht be able This paradoxical ~ Mr. Deputy- to answer him. Speiker, has been dominant from an- Clent times in Chinese as well as In Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hoD. HinJu thought, and in modern times, Member may continue tOU'lcrrow. Hegel and Marx have made it popular in their systems of metap1.ysics as 17.30 hrs. well as ~ philosophy.

    Democratic soclallsm, therefore, U lI'he Lok Sabha then adj01lTnlId till file Chinese puzzle. It is the Hindu Eleven of the clock on Tuesdall, April miracle of 'identity in diversity' and 7, 1964/Chaitra 18, 1886 (Saka).