Thomas Sung Oral History Interview
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Interviewee: Thomas Sung Interviewers: Anne Chao; Patricia Wong Date/Time of Interview: October 11, 2018 Transcribed by: Priscilla Li, Taylor Ginter (11/2/2018) Audio Track Time: 02:02:00 Edited by: Anne Chao Background: Thomas Sung was born in Shanghai in 1935. He lived in Chongqing during the Resist Japan war, and moved to Hong Kong in 1948. His family briefly stayed in Brazil and eventually immigrated to the United States in 1952. He earned a bachelor and a master’s degree in agricultural economics in 1959 and continued his study in accounting and finance for two years at the University of Florida. While attending the University, he managed his family’s ranch until 1961 when he moved to New York. He worked with several large corporations as an economic and financial analyst while attending law school at night and began his legal career in 1965 after graduating from Brooklyn Law School. His practice was largely concentrated in immigration and general law. In 1984, he founded the Abacus Federal Savings Bank which also owns Abacus Insurance Agency Corp and Abacus International Capital Corp. In his career as an attorney and banker, he devoted countless hours to pro bono work for the Chinese community. The mission of the Bank is to also serve the community. In 2012, the Bank was unfortunately indicted by New York County District Attorney’s office on various charges relating to mortgage fraud. The Bank survived the indictment; after 5 months of trial, the Bank was totally vindicated. The documentary film, “Abacus: Small Enough to Jail,” captured vividly the legal proceedings. The film received many awards including Oscar nomination, Emmy Award and Silver Gavel Award by the American Bar Association, etc. Setting: The interview took place in the conference room of Abacus Savings Bank, the interviewers were Anne Chao and Patricia Wong. Key: TS: Tom Sung AC: Anne Chao PW: Patricia Wong —: speech cuts off; abrupt stop …: speech trails off; pause Italics: emphasis (?): preceding word may not be accurate [Brackets]: actions [laughs, sighs, etc.] Interview transcript: AC: Good morning Mr. Sung. [TS: Yes. Good morning.] Thank you so much for allowing us to interview you. I’m Anne Chao and my partner is Patricia Wong and we’re from the Houston Asian American Archive. And today is October 11th, Thursday, 2018. Uh we’d like to start the interview by maybe asking if you can tell us where you were born and a little bit about your childhood. TS: Okay. First of all, let me thank you for coming. We appreciate your making this long trip. Uh I was born in Shanghai in 1935. Uh when - uh two years after I was born, uh as you - if you - you may not be old enough to go back to, to that period of time, that was the beginning of the Japanese war. So uh we moved to Chongqing, my family, my father, myself moved to Chongqing. And there I was there for at least 8 years, 8 ½ years, during the 8 years fighting against the Japanese during the war. And after war uh then uh the country was of course then was in several states. Uh the nationalists were in war with the communists, the current, current government. And we moved out of China in 1948 to Hong Kong. In Hong Kong, I s- remember I studied junior high school for two years. It was a tough time ‘cause Cantonese is different than the language that I learned which is uh Szechuan and also Guoyu. Uh and then of course my native, uh I mean not native in the sense - my parents are from Suzhou, so they speak the uh Shanghai dialect more or less. So they took a long period of uh somewhat difficult learning and we learned Cantonese. And then the Korean War started so we were fearful that the war might affect Hong Kong so we hurriedly - uh when I say we I mean my family, my father, mother and my siblings, uh went to uh - uh came to United States, we find out that we couldn’t stay and for good - for a reason which we can go into, at the time it was a tail end of the Asian Pacific Exclusion Act, uh otherwise known as Warren-McCarran Act, which only allow like 105 Chinese per year. Uh so everybody uh who comes over to this country from that area, China of course is the target area, would be considered potential immigrants so we couldn’t stay. So then uh we went to Brazil and in Brazil I uh stayed for approximately six months. Uh maybe a little bit more, uh didn’t go to school or anything like that. Just acquire our uh residence in Brazil. And as a result of acquiring the permanent residence status in Brazil, we were then able to obtain non-immigrant visa because we now have a place to return, tentatively speaking from the immigration law point of view. So then uh, then we came into the United States as a student. My uh my, my sisters and uh two brothers came as a - uh one brother came in as a student. Then uh of course uh when we came in here, the immigration and in those days, it’s called the immigration service, the naturalization service uh consider us a potential immigrant, or a non bona fide non-immigrant. So we were detained and I was uh - I recall I was on Ellis Island approximately three months. I go through hearing. Ellis Island now today is a very interesting historical place now for people to visit and I even have uh my, my family's name in the roster of people on the Ellis Island. So that was a pretty interesting story. Shall I continue? AC: Well going back a little bit uh when you were in Chongqing, what was your father’s profession and how many siblings do you have? TS: Okay sure. Uh my father uh yeah, my father had a very interesting childhood. Uh I don’t know if you want to hear all about that. Uh but anyway to answer your question directly, he was in the bristle business. Bristle business is the hog hair. Hog hair is you know is part of the hog. Hog is pig, right? We - here we refer to as hog. [laughs] And that strip of hair in the back is long, and stiff. Right? And that hair is utilized for brushes, uh for uh for paint brushes and so forth. Uh so he was in that business at one time, he was the largest white bristle manufacturer in Chongqing. So that was essentially what he’s - his business was. Zhuzong [豬鬃]we call it. AC: Zhuzong [豬鬃]. I remember I think Vera mentioned uh when we were together in Houston that he was an orphan? TS: Yes so- AC: Do you want to tell a little bit about your father’s story? TS: Sure I, I, I, I’d be happy to. My father always uh - I always love to hear my father’s uh story. Uh as against, I mean not against - uh different from my other siblings. I was the next youngest for 8 years period, I was the youngest one right so [laughs] Chinese family favors the oldest one, no question about that. And uh sometimes the youngest one also gets a little bit more attention. So my father tells me the story. Uh he was a, he, he was - his father died when he was three. And his mother of course, uh my, my grandmother, real grandmother was uh not able to raise him uh did not, could not afford it. So gave him to uh the uncle, his uncle, for uh to - as a son. Chinese have that practice. Right? If you couldn't raise your son, you give it to your relative to raise the son. Well that’d be quite normal, you would say what’s bad about that? Right, your uncle did not have a son, and you get the son from your brother who died. And that’d be fine, except the, the, the uncle - my father’s uncle’s wife is uh is from the uh from brothels. Not a good uh reputable place. When my grandfather, real grandfather was alive, because, he and his brother - very similar in terms of voice, in terms of look. And my, my grandfather, I was told by my father would always uh come home and sometimes mistaken by the by the, by the, by the wife of my you know [inaudible]. Thought maybe it was him and he would be always very angry because he looked down upon… and, and, and, so there was that hard feeling in, in, in the family about, about each other. So when, when my grandfather died and my father was given to him to raise as the - his son, the, the so called grandmother who had no children, uh then saw - took revenge on him. On my father. And they also adopted a daughter, uh that’s my uh you know my father’s uncle also adopt a daughter. But the daughter had no relationship with the family right no blood relationship, but was treated very favorably, so to say. And then uh the description was to me was, uh the you know the Chinese wear the qipao. Qipao is Chinese gown. The woman’s clothes, you know qipao is on one side. And the man clothes are on the other side right.