NEW FOREST DISTRICT COUNCIL INFORMAL MEMBERS MEETING TO DISCUSS TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ISSUES IN HYTHE & DIBDEN
Tuesday 15 November 2010, 10:00 am, Committee Rm 4, Appletree Court, Lyndhurst
Notes
Present: County Cllr Brian Dash HCC (Meeting Chairman) Sean Spencer Hythe and Dibden Parish Council Cllr Stan Wade NFDC & Parish Cllr Chris Harrison NFDC & Parish Cllr Maureen Robinson NFDC & Parish Cllr Malcolm Wade NFDC & Parish Cllr Alexis McEvoy HCC & NFDC Nick Hunt NFDC Clive Olczyk NFDC Hilary Ward NFDC
1 Introductions / Apologies: Cllr Maureen Mclean, David Shimpe and Paul Garrod.
2 2010/11 Traffic Management Programme
Overview – Developer funding allocated and available as referred to below. HCC’s traffic management allocation for 2011/12 fully committed and 2012/13 allocation partly committed.
i. DIBDEN PURLIEU: Roman Road North, on-road cycle route and improved uncontrolled crossing to assist cyclists crossing Beaulieu Road near the Heath roundabout. Nick Hunt said the developer’s contribution had been agreed and the concept drawing had been checked by an independent safety auditor and found to be acceptable. The part of the route along Roman Road South has been subject to traffic calming by HCC which has reduced the speeds along the road. Cllr Dash said the County are adjusting the build outs to accommodate cyclists by introducing slopes over the build outs for the cyclists to ride out them. Nick Hunt said this was very welcome. Regarding the route Nick stated the main difficulty from an engineers point of view is the crossing point at Beaulieu Road, the important factor here is good intervisibility. To assist this some cutting back of the vegetation is required. Cllr Robinson said the houses bordering the vegetation may complain about this. Clive Olczyk said it would not be a total cut back, just enough to enhance visibility for the cyclists. Full support was given to the scheme.
Action: NH asked HW to distribute the speed data for Roman Road South to those present and to put a link in the notes to the drawing on the website.
ii. (Reserve Scheme) HYTHE: Amend existing “no cycling” restrictions (The Hampshire (Hythe, Traffic Management) Order 1960) in the High Street Precinct. Nick Hunt said a lesser restriction, where cyclists have to dismount in the High Street, may be appropriate which would allow cyclists to access the cycle stands outside Waitrose. Cllr Robinson said this would lead to conflict between cyclists and pedestrians. Nick Hunt stated the Department for Transport doesn’t have an issue with cyclists and pedestrians mixing. Regarding the cycle stands Nick said he thought they were provided by Waitrose. Cllr Robinson said she also had an issue with the cycle racks and had approached Waitrose with a view to removing one to allow better access for disabled people. Cllr McEvoy pointed out that Waitrose would be unlikely to move the stands as it is good for their business to keep them where they are. Nick Hunt asked who owns the land; Sean Spencer said he would find out and let the meeting know. Cllr Dash said would it be possible to move the cycle stands within the current scheme. Nick Hunt said he would ask an officer to take a look at this. All agreed this is a high priority for next years programme.
Action: Sean Spence to find out who owns the land outside Waitrose where the cycle stands are located. Nick Hunt to seek to include the scheme in next year’s traffic management programme.
iii. (Reserve Scheme) HYTHE: South Street to Wild Ground Schools cycle route (via Hobart Drive, Knightwood Road, Ladycross Road, Dukeswood Drive, Heatherstone Avenue, Armitage Avenue). The proposal has been formally agreed in principle by HCC & NFDC following consultation with the Parish and others. A small amount of developers’ contributions have been allocated and HCC are likely to agree for the scheme to be included in the Local Sustainable Transport Fund bid. If HCC’s bid is approved the aim is for the scheme to be implemented within 3 years. HCC/NFDC/Parish Officers have walked the route and identified some issues but these are not felt likely to prevent the schemes implementation. Nick Hunt said there are two key points which are off road; firstly the link between South Street and Park Close and secondly at the crossing point at Butts Bridge Hill to link Ladycross Road and Dukeswood Drive. Members confirmed their support for this scheme.
3 Request for waiting restrictions; Nick Hunt outlined the difficulties the Transportation Section is facing. Next year he has to cut his staff budget by 8% which will mean the amount of schemes the Section can complete will have to be reduced. In reality the Section will be able to complete approximately 20 schemes across the whole District; 10 of these will be cycle schemes and 10 traffic management schemes. Nick therefore suggested the members choose either the waiting restrictions or the 20mph and no cycling schemes in Hythe Centre. Nick recommended the waiting restrictions be deferred and put as a reserve scheme on next year’s list.
Cllr Dash said the schemes listed are the ones which the members receive a large amount of complaints, in particular, Ashford Crescent. Cllr Robinson said people will come to members and we will then pass them onto NFDC. She said the 20mph and no cycling restrictions are important. Yellow lines tend to feed its self and only affect one or two individuals. She believed Ashford Crescent and the Catholic Church need something doing. Cllr Robinson asked if the Sorrell Centre and the Catholic Church can do anything themselves to encourage alternate parking.
Nick Hunt stated if the members can provide evidence, NFDC could write to the organisation asking them what action they had taken to encourage alternate parking before yellow lines are implemented.
Cllr S Wade said there is a real problem in Dibden Purlieu with parked cars on the Beaulieu Road. Further is the fact the car park in Dibden Purlieu may go to housing creating further car parking problems. Cllr Dash said if this does represent a safety problem then something needs to be done. Cllr S Wade said pulling out of Mansell Close onto Beaulieu Road was extremely difficult. Cllr Dash said we should ask HCC to see if there is a safety issue on Beaulieu Road. Nick Hunt asked Hilary Ward to look at the accident record for the site.
Cllr S Wade said West Street caused difficulties when Social Services hold a meeting which clashes with another meeting, you can get up to 50 cars parked down West Street. Nick Hunt said if the road is ‘wilfully obstructed’ then the police should be called.
Cllr Dash said the Parish Council is very good and would they be willing to contact the organisations such as the Catholic Centre and the Sorrell Centre. Sean Spence agreed to this action.
Proposal: to put the waiting restrictions in next years TM programme as a reserve scheme – members agreed.
Action: Parish Council to contact the organisations mentioned with regard to encouraging alternative parking.
Hilary Ward to investigate the accident record on Beaulieu Road, with a view to approaching HCC for a safety investigation.
4 Update on SID / SLR speed awareness / casualty reduction project. Hilary Ward gave a presentation on the operation of SID (speed indicator device) and SLR (Speed limit recorder). This included figures showing recorded injury accidents which show that there is a declining trend in the numbers over the past 10 years. The subject of pony collars was discussed which provide reflective illumination at night and contribute to reduced night time animal accidents. In view of the dangers of driving in the Forest at night i.e. the difficulty in seeing animals without collars, it was decided those present should write to the Verderers to encourage and support the use of collars on the forest ponies; Hilary Ward to draft a letter, for Cllr Dash and Cllr McEvoy’s signatures. Hilary explained the New Forest Safer Roads Group had initially been formed to target animal accidents on the Forest Roads. She explained the difference the SIDs and SLRs; and the use of the Speed Data Recorder (SDR). She invited requests for any SID or SLR deployments for roads which the Councillors believed speeding was an issue. Nick Hunt stated New Milton Town Council (NMTC) had purchased their own SLR which Hilary deployed using the NFDC contractor who then billed NMTC direct. This partnership arrangement has proved to be successful; and allows the Town Council to target lower priority roads which residents believe have a speeding problem but that the District would treat as a low priority. Cllr McEvoy asked if the permanent vehicle activated signs on the A326 at Marchwood are effective. Nick Hunt explained that these would be monitored by HCC. Cllr Dash asked for the slides to be made available to those present together with a copy of the accident data for Hythe and Dibden Purlieu.
Action: Hilary Ward to draft a letter to the Verderers and to provide a copy of the presentation / accident plot for the Parish.
5 Request for 20 mph limit in The Marsh and adjacent roads. Speed data appears to meet Department for Transport Guidelines. Hilary Ward explained where the SDRs had been deployed:
Prospect Place near the junction with Jones Lane School Road just south of the level crossing New Street near the Fire Station St John’s Street near the junction with South Street
Nick Hunt said HCC require further investigation and an outline proposal needs to be prepared for HCC’s Traffic Officers to consider. Those present suggested data needs to be obtained for West Street near the Marine Park and also for Shore Road near the old RAF base. Cllr Robinson said she believed some roads were very suitable for this scheme but Jones Lane was not one of them. Those present agreed further investigation of a 20 mph limit for Hythe centre was appropriate for its inclusion in the 2012/13 programme.
Action: Hilary Ward to undertake further SDR deployments as agreed.
6 Traffic congestion around the bus terminus and taxi rank at the pier head (David Shimpe) Some allegations had been reported about the behaviour of taxi drivers and bus drivers. Nick Hunt said any complaints regarding the bus drivers should be passed to the Bus Company who is very keen to ensure driver behaviour is proper. With regards to the taxi drivers any complaints should be passed to Paul Weston (NFDC). Cllr Stan Wade said since the buses had moved onto the roadside for dropping off and collecting passengers it causes significant congestion when two buses turn up together. Cllr Malcolm Wade said we should look at the strategic view; what do we want to achieve for the town and not how to deal with each problem as separate items. Cllr Robinson said it would be helpful to reduce the number of taxis who wait at the taxi rank to free up space for others. Cllr Stan Wade said it was not just the congestion issue but the noise and air pollution which this causes. Nick Hunt said due to the location of Hythe on the waterside pollution would not be a significant problem as air pollutants would most likely be blown out over the water. Cllr McEvoy said the ferry had not been mentioned which is the reason the site is called a transport hub. In view of the ferry’s set timetable could a solution not be found to accommodate all transport modes? Cllr Stan Wade said he believed the land owned by General Estates, previously used by the buses, is key to achieving a solution. Further, could the taxi drivers not have a holding area elsewhere and be called forward once there is space at the hub. Nick Hunt said would it be helpful if a meeting was arranged between HCC, NFDC, Parish members, Paul Weston and a Bus Company representative; those present agreed a meeting would prove useful. Nick Hunt asked members to note the bid for the Local Sustainable Transport Fund for this area.
Action: Meeting to be arranged by NFDC as described to discuss the transport hub. NH to check who is the best person to report allegations of poor behaviour by drivers bus drivers to and advise David Shimpe.
POST MEETING NOTE:- Re. item 3 of agenda - request for white centre lines at the bend in Hollybank Road. This was included in the issues to be discussed in item 3 but as this is not a waiting restriction suggestion as most of the issues in this item it has since been investigated. Injury accident records show none at this location, however it is felt that although the road is quite narrow and drivers should drive accordingly the addition of a centre warning line would help to raise awareness of the approach to the bend, particularly as it is on the brow of a hill. Similar centre warning lining exists in Butts Ash Lane and on the approach to junctions off Hollybank Road. The lining work will therefore be included in the next lining works order to be arranged. Action CO to ensure work is ordered