Vol. 812 Tuesday No. 5 18 May 2021

PARLIAMENTARYDEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT

ORDEROFBUSINESS

Questions Right-to-Work Checks for UK Nationals...... 431 Electricity Supplies from Europe ...... 433 Railway Industry Association Report ...... 436 Size of the House of Lords ...... 440 Osimertinib Cancer Treatment Private Notice Question...... 443 Skills and Post-16 Education Bill [HL] First Reading ...... 447 Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Steps and Local Authority Enforcement Powers) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021 Motion to Approve...... 448 Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Cash Searches: Code of Practice) Order 2021 Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Investigative Powers of Prosecutors: Code of Practice) Order 2021 Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Investigations: Code of Practice) Order 2021 Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Recovery of Listed Assets: Code of Practice) Regulations 2021 Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Search, Seizure and Detention of Property: Code of Practice) (Northern Ireland) Order 2021 Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) Order 2021 Motions to Approve ...... 448 Anti-Semitic Attacks Commons Urgent Question ...... 449 Covid-19 Update Statement ...... 453 Queen’s Speech Debate (5th Day)...... 467

Grand Committee Trade and Official Controls (Transitional Arrangements for Prior Notifications) (Amendment) Regulations 2021 Considered in Grand Committee ...... GC 39 Plant Health etc. (Miscellaneous Fees) (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2021 Considered in Grand Committee ...... GC 52 Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Extension of the Relevant Period) Regulations 2021 Considered in Grand Committee ...... GC 53 Warm Home Discount (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2021 Considered in Grand Committee ...... GC 66 Electricity Trading (Development of Technical Procedures) (Day-Ahead Market Timeframe) Regulations 2021 Considered in Grand Committee...... GC 77 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2021-05-18

In Hybrid sittings, [V] after a Member’s name indicates that they contributed by video call.

The following abbreviations are used to show a Member’s party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Ind UU Independent Ulster Unionist Lab Labour Lab Co-op Labour and Co-operative Party LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party

No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2021, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 431 Arrangement of Business[18 MAY 2021] Right-to-Work Checks for UK Nationals 432

House of Lords not been changed in this regard, and we made it clear that we would revert to the full checking regime in line Tuesday 18 May 2021 with the lifting of social distancing measures. But I hope that my noble friend is encouraged by the moves Noon we intend to make going forward. The House met in a hybrid proceeding. Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]: If the temporary measure Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Birmingham. has been successful and there is no need for return to physical right-to-work checks, why not continue with Arrangement of Business the temporary measure? We do not really seem to have Announcement had an answer to that question.

12.06 pm Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con): The answer is The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith): My actually quite clear: we need to check the security of Lords, the Hybrid Sitting of the House will now what might go forward. We are undertaking a review begin. Some Members are here in the Chamber, others of the value of using specialist technology, including are participating remotely, but all Members will be identity document validation, in supporting the system treated equally.I ask Members to respect social distancing, of digital right-to-work checks to include UK and and if the capacity of the Chamber is exceeded, I will Irish citizens, as they are not in scope of the Home immediately adjourn the House. Office online checking services. Oral Questions will now commence. Please can those asking supplementary questions keep them no Lord Paddick (LD) [V]: My Lords, not only are the longer than 30 seconds and confined to two points? I Government insisting on in-person physical right-to-work ask that Ministers are also brief in their answers. checks but some parents say they are being asked by schools to produce passports to prove their child’s Right-to-Work Checks for UK Nationals right to education as a result of the UK’s departure from the European Union. Can the Minister confirm Question whether the Home Office is requiring schools to do 12.07 pm this and, if so, on what legal basis? If it is not, will the Minister take urgent steps to stop this practice? Asked by Lord Lucas To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con): Well, I am they have to end online right-to-work checks for very grateful to the noble Lord for a heads-up this United Kingdom nationals. morning, and it is important to say to him that Brexit has not changed the rights of foreign nationals to The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams access schools. State schools do not have a role in of Trafford) (Con): My Lords, from 21 June, right-to-work policing the immigration system. Independent schools, checks will revert from the Covid-19-adjusted measures with sponsor licences, do have an explicit duty to have to face-to-face physical document checks for those documents proving the right to stay in the UK. I do who cannot use the Home Office online checking not know the details of the noble Lord’s case, but I service. We are currently evaluating the potential for would be most grateful to have some further detail, introducing specialist technology, including identity and perhaps we can discuss it further. document validation technology, into the right-to-work checking service. This would provide a permanent Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con) [V]: My Lords, digital option for those unable to use the online checking following the move to more distanced right-to-work service. checks during the coronavirus pandemic via video link, in operation to 21 June 2021, can the Minister Lord Lucas (Con) [V]: My Lords, I thank my noble comment on what measures were taken to check against friend for what has the feeling of being, perhaps, an fraud and abuse of this process? What were the findings? encouraging Answer. The online verification of right to work during Covid has been a huge success for the Home Office. The system works really well; no one I Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con): Well, my noble have spoken to is aware of any serious issues. It avoids friend asks the absolutely crucial question. We need frauds; it is much more efficient and effective for security measures in place to ensure that the system is companies; and it really promotes remote working, robust. What we have had in place as a temporary helping people in unemployment blackspots get jobs measure will, I am sure, be evaluated in due course. many miles away. What is the reason for junking it? But she goes right to the heart of what we need when Who benefits? I really do not understand. we progress towards more regular online checking.

Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con): Well, I am Baroness Ludford (LD) [V]: My Lords, it has been glad my noble friend feels he got a positive Answer reported that EU nationals arriving here who were because, in fact, employers have been very positive believed to be seeking work were immediately detained about the temporary measures we have put in place. It in places such as Yarl’s Wood and deported. Apparently, is not about “junking it”; it is about the fact that it has this has stopped, but what sort of example does the been a temporary measure. Obviously, legislation has Minister think it sets for the treatment of British 433 Right-to-Work Checks for UK Nationals[LORDS] Electricity Supplies from Europe 434

[BARONESS LUDFORD] Lord Howell of Guildford (Con) [V]: My Lords, I citizens in the EU? Secondly, EU nationals who have declare my interests as in the register. Does my noble been British citizens for decades are getting letters friend accept that these electricity connectors, to and telling them they risk losing rights to work, healthcare from the continent, play a vital triple role, in smoothing and benefits unless they apply for settled status in the and increasing the reliability of our electricity supply— next six weeks. But they do not need this. Why are the which is mostly low-carbon sourced—through the Home Office records so poor? connectors when the wind drops or stops, in cutting our inflated energy bills and in exporting our electricity surpluses overseas when wind and solar produce too Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con): My Lords, much for our immediate needs? What are the plans for EU citizens who have applied to the EU settlement further expansion of these links, both with continental scheme should not be detained in Yarl’s Wood unless Europe and elsewhere? Is the North Sea-Norway link there is some exception such as, for example, criminality. progressing, and what about the link, which will be the In terms of people getting letters, I am sure the reminders longest of its kind in the world, with Iceland? are helpful; they are not intended to be hostile in nature. Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): I agree entirely with the noble Lord, who speaks with The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith): My great authority on this matter. The Iceland link is, I Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked think, no longer going ahead, but I can confirm, as I and we now move to the next question. said in an earlier answer, that we have 18 gigawatts of interconnected power provided for within the energy White Paper. It does indeed play a vital role in supporting a flexible decarbonising system, by rapidly responding Electricity Supplies from Europe to changes in demand and supply. Interconnection Question supports the integration of low-carbon generation in the UK to meet our net-zero goal. It also provides 12.13 pm competition in the energy sector that will reduce prices and lead to lower energy bills. Asked by Lord West of Spithead Viscount Waverley (CB): My Lords, reliability is of Toask Her Majesty’sGovernment what proportion course an imperative. However, is the Minister able to of electricity supply to the United Kingdom is give an assurance about Russia, which was deemed by provided from continental Europe. the Government to be “the enemy” in their recent integrated policy review? Given that a major UK Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): From company is a funder of the Nord Stream 2 gas project, provisional data, net imports from continental Europe— with the promoters emphasising that not just Germany the Netherlands, Belgium and France—provided 5.6% of but western Europe will be a beneficiary of the gas UK electricity supply in 2020. Final data for 2020 will from Russia, it would be inextricable that the gas from be published at the end of July. the original source would find its way to our shores. Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): There Lord West of Spithead (Lab): My Lords, I thank the can be no normalisation of our bilateral relationship Minister for her Answer. Threats to provision of power until Russia stops its irresponsible and destabilising to Jersey have highlighted the issue of UK reliance on activity. The UK imported less than 3% of its gas in overseas power supplies. Currently, I think we have 2020. The Government remain concerned about the four interconnectors and the number is going up by impact Nord Stream 2 will have on European energy about 10 or even 12. Does the Minister agree that it is security, and particularly on the interests of Ukraine. highly dangerous for our nation to be reliant on power sources beyond our shores, and contrary to government Lord Rooker (Lab) [V]: Can the Minister update us policy on resilience and sovereignty? Rapid completion on the interconnector application by AQUIND Ltd, of major new nuclear reactors, plus advanced modular owned by two Russian Tory party donors? One of reactors, would seem to be the answer to ensuring them, Alexander Temerko, once said he owned enough sufficient UK provision of zero-carbon electrical power. Tory MPs to dislodge a UK Prime Minister? The two owners control less than 50%; who owns the rest? Can she confirm that everybody on Portsmouth City Council Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): is totally opposed to the proposed cable route through Interconnectors form an important part of our energy the city, and that even now it is better for this decision mix, but most of the power consumed in this country to be made locally rather than by Ministers? is still domestically produced. The noble Lord will know that the White Paper mentioned an ambition to Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): I am have 18 gigawatts of power through interconnection. indeed aware of the issues surrounding the AQUIND In The Ten Point Plan for a Green Industrial Revolution, interconnector, as the noble Lord outlined. AQUIND reiterated in the energy White Paper, the Government has made an application for development consent. All confirmed their commitment to developing large, small applications for development consent are dealt with and advanced nuclear projects, and an advanced nuclear by the department in line with government propriety fund of up to £385 million was proposed to invest in guidelines. We do not comment on projects that are the next generation of nuclear. currently in the planning process. 435 Electricity Supplies from Europe[18 MAY 2021] Railway Industry Association Report 436

Lord Taylor of Goss Moor (LD) [V]: Over the last Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): We year there have been significant issues with electricity have a strong pipeline of interconnectors. We have supply, not least because a number of power stations 3.8 gigawatts in construction to Norway, Denmark have either been down or under repair, and we have and France, and the completion of these projects will not yet got the new generation online that has been result in 9.8 gigawatts of interconnector capacity for long talked about. That makes the interconnectors Great Britain by 2023. A further 6.1 gigawatts are in particularly important, but in Northern Ireland, of development to Ireland, France, Germany and Norway. course, they are fully integrated with the rest of the We have no capacity in the UK at present to build Irish electricity system. The Trade and Cooperation HVDC cables, but we have the capacity to build the Agreement that governs all this will run out in 2026. medium voltage cables that service the offshore wind Are the Government actively in discussion with European farms. counterparts on its successor? The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith): I call Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): I the noble Baroness, Lady Goudie. No? In that case, I can confirm that the Government are in discussions call the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey of Didcot. on its successor. We are in fact planning another interconnector between Ireland and the UK. As the Lord Vaizey of Didcot (Con): I am very grateful for noble Lord knows, the island of Ireland is counted as the opportunity to opine on this important issue. Can one electricity market, and I can update him on further the Minister confirm that the French are in fact building discussions as and when they happen. one of our nuclear reactors? Has the recent dispute led the Government to review that situation? Lord Grantchester (Lab): I follow up on the questioning from my noble friend Lord Rooker, as conflicts of Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): The interest have obviously been a large part of public French are indeed building at Hinkley Point, and we debate recently.Can the Minister confirm which Minister are still in discussions with them on the project to will sign off the final decision on the AQUIND cable, build Sizewell C. I am not aware of any interruptions that Ministers in the department have no involvement in those negotiations. and that the Government will nominate who has any Lord Moylan (Con): My Lords, what many Members role in any stage of the adjudication process? Will the want to hear is an assurance from the Government final sign-off be undertaken by Ofgem? that reducing dependence on the import of French Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): The electricity will be a strategic priority for the Government application has been examined by the planning in the face of the threats that we know they are likely inspectorate; the examining authority is currently writing to issue—they have a track record—when it comes to its report, which will contain its conclusions and renewing and renegotiating the Trade and Co-operation recommendations to the Secretary of State. Once he Agreement. If my noble friend cannot give that assurance has received this report, the Secretary of State will today, which I understand, will she at least promise to have three months in which to take his decision. No take it back to Ministers, so that we can have a clear other Ministers are involved in this decision-making policy that defends the national interest? process. Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): The Lord Hannan of Kingsclere (Con): My Lords, UK has an extremely strong domestic energy supply—our interconnectors play an important role in reducing homegrown mix of energy sources means there is no costs, but Britain is not at risk of an energy embargo. chance of the lights going out. The UK has a target to We are close to self-sufficiency, we will be closer when build 40 gigawatts of offshore wind by 2030 and our hydrogen comes on tap and, in a real emergency, we ambition for at least 18 gigawatts of interconnection are sitting on 300 years’ supply of coal. Will the by the same date will support our energy requirements Minister confirm, none the less, that threatening an in this country. I will of course take my noble friend’s embargo is not the act of a friend, but rather that of concerns back to the department. an antagonistic state, such as Putin’s Russia? The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith): My Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked, Undoubtedly, emotions ran high following the and we now move to the third Oral Question. introduction of the new licensing regime in Jersey, but we believe that the measures that Jersey has put on its Railway Industry Association Report fishing licences are entirely consistent with implementing Question access under the Trade and Co-operation Agreement. 12.25 pm Our strong and healthy reciprocal energy relationships with neighbouring countries have been based on good Asked by Lord Faulkner of Worcester will for many years; it is in the mutual interest of all Toask Her Majesty’sGovernment what assessment parties that we continue to uphold these positive they have made of the report by the Railway Industry relationships. Association Why Rail Electrification?, published on 22 April. Lord Wigley (PC) [V]: My Lords, will the Minister tell the House the anticipated timescale for more Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]: My Lords, I interconnectors between Britain and Ireland? Does beg leave to ask the Question in my name on the Order the UK have any plans to set up a domestic cable Paper and remind the House of my railway interests as manufacturing capability? declared in the register. 437 Railway Industry Association Report[LORDS] Railway Industry Association Report 438

TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department I never tire of saying, the Green Party has been saying for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con): My this for 30 or 40 years. Why have the Government not Lords, the Government welcome this report and agree taken this as a matter of urgency and done it much that further electrification is required to decarbonise faster? the railway, alongside the deployment of hydrogen and battery trains on some lines. In the last three years, we Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): I take this opportunity have completed almost 700 miles of electrification in to remind the House that the Green Party is against England and Wales, and we will continue to do more. HS2, a position which I remain a little confused by. The noble Baroness is quite right that now is the Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]: My Lords, I opportunity to put our shoulder to the wheel and to welcome that Answer. The Railway Industry Association electrify our railways as quickly as we can. That is why report is indeed excellent and the case it makes for a we will be setting out a rolling programme in the rolling programme of electrification is unanswerable. forthcoming RNEP, and why we take great heed of Can the Minister confirm that the Government are what was written by the Network Rail-led traction committed to decarbonising the railway by no later decarbonisation network strategy.That is not government than 2050? If so, do they accept that the most effective policy, but there are some very important conclusions and beneficial way to deliver that is a steady, stable which we are looking at, and we will be putting them stream of electrification of between 400 and 500 kilometres in the transport decarbonisation plan. each year? Will she and her ministerial colleagues in the DfT do their utmost to resist the Treasury’s efforts Lord Young of Cookham (Con): My Lords, the again to kick this into the long grass and water it all report mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, down by putting it off into the spending review? makes a compelling case for accelerating the electrification programme so that we can hit our carbon commitments, Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): The Government’s but it says very little about the industry’s capacity to plans for decarbonising all forms of transport will be deliver, which historically has been disappointing. Can set out in the transport decarbonisation plan, which my noble friend ensure that if the recommendations will be published shortly, but the noble Lord is quite are accepted, we have the technical skills and know-how right that the best way to make the most effective use to deliver, on budget and on time, and that any of the supply chain is to have a rolling programme. reorganisation of Network Rail will not impede progress? That is why electrification projects are included in the Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): My noble friend rail network enhancements pipeline, which was last is quite right. Indeed, the Rail Industry Association published in October 2019 and will be updated in the report in 2019 set out that one of the root causes of near future. I take his point about the Treasury, but it the challenges of electrification was the 20-year hiatus is also the case that we must be prudent and stay that had previously occurred in the electrification within the funding envelope that we have available. projects, which led to a loss of specialist knowledge. Lord Snape (Lab): The Minister will be familiar But we are looking at the supply side of this to bring with the east-west railway line connecting our two forward the rolling programme of electrification; I main varsity towns. She will also be familiar with the specifically point my noble friend to the Traction fact that the design was for a fully electrified line, since Decarbonisation Network Strategy, which has a lot of when the Government have changed that to a non- information about the supply side. We are confident electrified line, with electrical specification left for the that, if we have the right programme in place, we can future and the line being built by a private sector not only use the existing supply-side skills and expertise company. Are we really going to decarbonise our but grow them for the future. transport system by adopting this temporary and, in Baroness Randerson (LD): Does the Minister agree the view of many of us, expensive alternative, rather that all the options in this report are better than diesel than going ahead with building the line as it was trains, which are just as bad as diesel cars for the originally designed? environment and health? Can she therefore explain why the Government have fixed 2030 as the year to Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): I reassure the phase out all diesel cars while they are still promoting noble Lord that it is our aim to deliver a net-zero hybrid trains, which are of course simply diesel trains carbon railway. East West Rail is a very important for large parts of their journey? part of the development of the Ox-Cam Arc, which will support housing and jobs. Any decision to grant Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): The noble Baroness development consent for the project will need to will be well aware that decarbonisation of different demonstrate that it would not have a material impact modes has to happen at different speeds. For example, on the ability of the Government to meet their carbon the reality on the railway network is that freight is a reduction targets. However, EWR Co, the company challenge, because it takes much higher levels of energy responsible for it, continues to examine decarbonisation to pull freight cars along. Therefore, it is right that we options, including full electrification along the whole look at each mode and try to decarbonise them as route, as well as various options for partial electrification quickly as we can, and that is what we will set out in using battery or electric hybrid rolling stock and other our transport decarbonisation plan. sustainable rolling stock options. Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con): Does my Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP): There is noble friend agree that had there been some diesel nothing really new in this review because, of course, trains operating on the east coast main line, there electrification has always been a cleaner option and, as would have been a greater number of trains operating, 439 Railway Industry Association Report[18 MAY 2021] Size of the House of Lords 440 given the recent problems with the cracks? The electric Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): I know that my trains can operate from any power source; which honourable friend in the other place will be very power source do the Government intend to use for grateful for the suggestions of the noble Lord about electric trains? some of these quick wins—the fairly small, low-cost, infill electrification schemes that he refers to. We will Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): I am not sure that of course look at these schemes, and they would be I entirely understand that question. The electric trains developed through the RNEP process. will use the power sources available. Decarbonisation of the power network is, of course, very important The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith): My and a huge amount of work has already been done to Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked. decarbonise power generation. Therefore, when we combine decarbonising not only power generation but the transport system as a whole, we will reach our Size of the House of Lords target of net zero by 2050. Question

Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB) [V]: Why Rail 12.36 pm Electrification? rightly claims that electricity is the Asked by Lord Young of Cookham cleanest and most efficient power source for UK railways, but electricity itself must be cleanly produced. It cannot To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans be stored and requires the use of energy to convert it they have to respond to the latest report of the Lord to other potential energy. There are other linked Speaker’s committee on the size of the House. components to the use and distribution of power; does the Minister agree that tackling each of these in parallel The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) is essential in meeting the target of net-zero emissions (Con): My Lords, the Government have of course by 2050? noted the committee’s latest report. However, given retirements and other departures, some new Members Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): I agree, and I refer are essential to keep the expertise and outlook of the the noble Lord to the answer to my noble friend’s Lords fresh. This will ensure that the House of Lords question just now. But I also point out that this is not continues to fulfil its role in scrutinising and revising just about electricity and electrification; there is huge legislation while respecting the primacy of the Commons. potential for hydrogen in the mix. The Government are very clear that we should invest in various new Lord Young of Cookham (Con): My Lords, good technologies. Indeed, we have now invested up to progress was made in the last Parliament in reducing £3 million on various alternatives to straightforward the high numbers in your Lordships’ House by a rail electrification. On hydrogen, for example, we have combination of increased retirements by your Lordships invested £750,000 in HydroFLEX, the UK’s first and restraint by Theresa May. But the incentive for hydrogen-powered train. These trains may be particularly your Lordships to play their part is diminished if the useful for freight in the future. Prime Minister does not play his. Will my noble friend encourage the Leader of the House to persuade the Prime Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]: In light of the Government’s Minister to do what the Burns committee recommended commitment to decarbonisation, when will the Great —namely, to engage positively with the House—so Western main line into Bristol Temple Meads and that we can continue to make progress towards our from Cardiff to Swansea and Didcot to Oxford now target of 600? be electrified? What will be the additional costs of now doing so at a later date, arising from the earlier Lord True (Con): The Government always seek to decision to defer electrification of these key parts of engage positively with the House; the House does not the Great Western main line? necessarily always engage positively with the Government. The Government did not accept the cap when it was Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): The Great Western proposed to come in by 2027 in the first report, and electrification programme is now substantially complete. they do not accept it in the latest report, when it is due However, I recognise that some parts of the network by 2024. will still need to be electrified. As with all projects within the rail system, each one is looked at from the Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab): My Lords, I think bottom up, and analysis is undertaken and development the House has been freshened up rather enough, and work done. If it meets value for money and is affordable, we hope that the Government might pause for a little it will go into the RNEP system and therefore be done time. Have the Government now set themselves against in due course. substantive reform of the House? If they have, why not at least engage with your Lordships’ House to see Lord Bradshaw (LD) [V]: When the Minister’scolleague what incremental change could be agreed? Chris Heaton-Harris met the Rail All-Party Group, he was presented with a package costing less than Lord True (Con): My Lords, as the noble Lord £100 million which would enable 2 million train miles knows, there have been a number of changes in your a year to be hauled by existing electric locomotives Lordships’ House over recent years. The Government instead of diesel—the equivalent of decarbonising have made their position clear: we are committed to 80 to 100 million HGV miles a year. Has any progress looking at the role of the House of Lords, but we do been made with this? not want to do so in a piecemeal way. 441 Size of the House of Lords [LORDS] Size of the House of Lords 442

Lord Tyler (LD) [V]: My Lords, I strongly endorse Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab) [V]: My Lords, I the views of the noble Lords, Lord Young and Lord Hunt, am sorry not to be present, but I am off to get my and indeed those of the Lord Speaker. Is it not now second jab after this Question. I return to the quite obvious that Mr Johnson is seeking to deliberately damage inadequate answer that the Minister gave to the noble the reputation of the House to reduce our influence? Lord, Lord Young of Cookham. He referred to the Will the Government now accept the recommendations Burns report but did not accept its recommendations. of the Burns committee, and the view of the large The Burns report has the interests of the House at majority of the House, and take the lead in legislating heart; clearly,the Government do not. When the Minister to end the 20 year-old temporary hereditary Peers mentioned refreshing the House, what he really means by-election anomaly? This is way past its sell-by date. is refreshing the Conservative Benches. Since the first Burns report was published in 2017, we have seen an Lord True (Con): No, my Lords, for the reason I overall decrease in the number on the Official Opposition have just given. The noble Lord speaks with the strength Benches of 16 Peers and an overall increase on the of 86 Liberal Democrat Peers behind him. At the rate Conservative Benches of 20 Peers. This House works of retirement we have seen recently, it would be some best when we work as a team to examine legislation. time in the 2060s before their representation was reduced That does not seem to be the Government’sunderstanding. to that awarded to them by the British people in the House of Commons in 2019. Maybe there is another Lord True (Con): My Lords, I agree with the noble aspect of your Lordships’ composition that might be Baroness that the role of the Official Opposition is examined. extremely important, and new Peers have been appointed —the Prime Minister has nominated people to the Lord Strathclyde (Con): My Lords, I really hope Labour Party Benches. Indeed, I had the great privilege that the Government have not lost their enthusiasm of hearing the maiden speech from the noble Baroness, for proper reform of this House but, given that over Lady Merron, only last week. the last 20 years there have been a tiny number of Divisions of over 600, I cannot really see what the Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD) [V]: My Lords, may I problem of numbers actually is. Being a practical follow the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith? person, has my noble friend considered the relevance The Labour Party acted with great restraint in the first of asking the noble Lord, Lord Burns, and his committee 11 years after the 1999 reforms. It was six years before to look again at the whole subject of age limits in this there were more Labour Peers than Conservative, and House, as so many other professions are legislated at the end of the Labour Government there were only with age limits? 26 more Labour Peers than Conservatives. We now Lord True (Con): My Lords, of course I was struck have 83 more Conservative Peers than Labour, almost by what my noble friend said in the debate on the as many as there are all other party Peers. Do the gracious Speech last week and some of the striking Government intend to respect the convention that no figures he gave then. Having said that the Government group should have a majority in this House or do they are not looking for piecemeal change, I will not follow intend to carry on appointing more until they approach him directly, but it is of course a fact that somewhere an overall majority? above 110 Members of your Lordships’ House are over 80. Lord True (Con): My Lords, the Conservative Party has only about 33% of the seats in the Lords, which Baroness Hayman (CB): My Lords, the Minister obviously is way short of its share of the vote. This has repeated the Government’s desire not to have House has always benefited from negotiation and piecemeal reform, but does he not accept that the only balance. However, there is a fundamental principle of progress that has been made in your Lordships’ House our constitution that the Queen’s Government must has been through piecemeal reform? Can he think very be enabled to carry on, and everybody watches very seriously about the report’s recommendation about closely the relationship between this House and the the worrying blurring that has happened between the House of Commons. process for appointing Cross-Bench Peers and party- political Peers? Will he also accept the recommendation Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (Non-Afl): My Lords, that the House of Lords Appointments Commission I refer to my registered interests. I wonder whether it is should regain its control of this process, and perhaps time to take advice from Albert Einstein, who said, consider the view—which I share with the noble Lord, “If I had an hour to solve a problem, I would spend Lord Strathclyde—that that commission should be 55 minutes thinking about the problem and five minutes put on a statutory basis? thinking about the solution.” As we are about to enter a period where I think the United Kingdom will Lord True (Con): My Lords, as the noble Baroness reflect on its constitutional arrangements as a whole, rightly says, the Appointments Commission has an it may in that context be appropriate to look at the important role. However, I cannot agree that there has function of the House of Lords, and then its composition not been progress in reforming your Lordships’ House. and size may well flow from those conclusions quite I seem to recall a very dramatic reform of your Lordships’ naturally. House in 1999—which, considering the age of your Lordships’House,isrelativelyrecent.Substantialproposals Lord True (Con): I agree with the noble Baroness were also put forward in the 2010 Parliament which that function and role are of substantial importance; failed to make progress because the Labour Party too often all aspects of this question fail to be considered would not agree to a programme Motion. together. 443 Size of the House of Lords[18 MAY 2021] Osimertinib Cancer Treatment 444

Lord Norton of Louth (Con) [V]: Do the Government discretion with no delays. The UK Government are agree or not agree with the Motion passed by this committed to supporting parity of access to medicines House on 5 December 2016 that steps should be taken across all parts of the UK. to reduce the size of the House? Lord True (Con): My Lords, the Government always Lord Moylan (Con): My Lords,people will be reassured respectfully note Motions passed by your Lordships’ to hear that but the fact of the matter is, surely, that House. However, I believe I have answered that in the use of this drug for early treatment of lung cancer saying that the Government’s view is that this House remains subject to the approval of the EMA and needs refreshing. access at the moment is available on application by clinicians on an individual-case basis, which is not the Baroness Prashar (CB) [V]: I agree with the noble same ease of access as exists in the rest of the UK. Baroness,Lady Stuart, that we need to look at the function While it may be of some assurance that the EMA is and the purpose of the House and not concentrate just expected to approve the drug’s use for early treatment on its size. This constant concentration on the size of in the near future, that remains wholly outside the the House detracts from the real purpose of what Government’s control. What does that say about the the House can do. I agree with the noble Baroness, integrity of our National Health Service and for how Lady Hayman, that we need to put the House of Lords long can this situation go on? Appointments Commission on a statutory basis and look at the role that the House can play in post-legislative Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, we estimate that scrutiny. there are currently just eight patients in Northern Ireland who would benefit from the expanded use of Lord True (Con): My Lords, I am glad that the Tagrisso for early-stage disease. Perhaps I may reassure noble Baroness was able to intervene, and, as I replied my noble friend that they will all have the same access to the noble Baroness, Lady Stuart, I agree that the as in the rest of the United Kingdom without any broader role needs to be considered. I can only repeat delay or restraint on that access. that, yes, the House of Lords Appointments Commission has an important role. However, I will go no further than that. Baroness Thornton (Lab): My Lords, we should all wholeheartedly welcome the news of the agreement to The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith): The enable early access to Osimertinib for early-stage lung time allowed for this Question has elapsed. cancer patients in England and I absolutely recognise that it is also available to patients in Northern Ireland. 12.47 pm However, early diagnosis is as important as access to treatment. It is therefore deeply concerning that the Sitting suspended. number of people in England and, presumably, across the UK being seen by a specialist for suspected cancer, Arrangement of Business following urgent referral from their GP, has dropped Announcement dramatically. What steps are the Government taking to bring those waiting lists down? We certainly cannot 1 pm wait for a reorganisation of the NHS, as proposed The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) this year. Does the noble Lord acknowledge that (LD): My Lords, the Hybrid Sitting of the House will reorganisations tend to have a chilling effect on the now resume and I ask Members to respect social recovery of our NHS? distancing. Lord Bethell (Con): The noble Baroness is entirely Osimertinib Cancer Treatment right to be concerned about the backlog of oncological Private Notice Question diagnostics. It is of grave concern to all of us. That is why the NHS has massively prioritised the tests she 1 pm described. Weare working extremely hard to get through Asked by Lord Moylan the backlog. GPs are extremely focused on identifying those most at risk and those who are late for their tests To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether are being followed up with great energy and endeavour. Osimertinib (Tagrisso), a cancer treatment drug I pay tribute particularly to the role of NHS D, which recently approved by the Medical and Healthcare is using the kind of data gains that we made during the products Regulatory Agency, will be available to pandemic to mobilise all the technology we can to get residents of Northern Ireland (1) on the same timescale, the right people into tests at the right time. and (2) with the same ease of access, as in the rest of the United Kingdom. Baroness Jolly (LD): I am really pleased that this TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department drug can now be used as I understand that it is of Health and Social Care (Lord Bethell) (Con): My something of a wonder drug. That is good news. Are Lords, the innovative lung cancer drug Tagrisso has there any other drugs that might fall foul of the recently had its licence expanded to include patients Northern Ireland protocol? Will the Minister update with early-stage lung cancer through Project Orbis. I the House on the current problems in Northern Ireland am pleased to confirm that Tagrisso is currently available with over-the-counter medicines such as Strepsils and to all patients, including in Northern Ireland, at clinical others that appear to have fallen foul of the protocol? 445 Osimertinib Cancer Treatment[LORDS] Osimertinib Cancer Treatment 446

Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I am not aware of a Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP): My Lords, Northern Strepsil shortage in Northern Ireland but I would be Ireland is subject to EU law when it comes to the glad to write to the noble Baroness if I have any single market for goods and medicines because there is information. a grace period until 31 December 2021. After that, say representatives of the pharmaceutical industry, the Lord Patel (CB) [V]: My Lords, can the Minister supply of 98% of medicines from Great Britain to confirm that the Northern Ireland protocol runs the risk Northern Ireland is at risk of being discontinued. of medicines not being available, that there will be That is a truly outrageous and scandalous situation. divergence in the availability of medicines—and, The effects are already being felt. Can the Minister importantly, medical devices—because the approval confirm that the Government will take whatever steps process might be different, and that the Government are necessary in terms of the protocol to guarantee the are due to report in six months on the effect of that continued supply of medicines to Northern Ireland divergence? from Great Britain without any further regulation Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, we are watchful of being required? the concerns to which the noble Lord refers but it is Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I have met with our hope and aspiration that there will not be the kind industry on this matter for the past 18 months. I am of delays or trouble that he explained. The Northern afraid that the message I get from it is not of the Ireland protocol means that Northern Ireland will stay alarmist kind that the noble Lord described—quite aligned with EU rules, particularly for this kind of specific the opposite. I pay tribute to the industry for its cancer medicine, but that does not mean that there need enormously collaborative sense of partnership and I to be any delays. However, we are watching the situation really do not believe that there is any threat of the kind carefully and the report that he described will give a that the noble Lord described. full account of the problems, if there are any. Lord Lansley (Con): Can my noble friend, in this Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD) [V]: Speaking from instance at least, explain the divergence between the Aberdeenshire, I know that drug approval can differ MHRA and the European Medicines Agency? On between Scotland and England. Now that we have left 22 April, the EMA’s Committee for Medicinal Products the EU, is it not inevitable that there will be differences for Human Use gave a positive opinion under an in drug approval and timings from time to time? What accelerated assessment, but the EMA has not yet are the Government doing, having signed the agreement, given the new indication of marketing authorisation. to opt out of the EMA and negotiate an arrangement What is the potential gap between MHRA authorisation that minimises disruption but does not pretend that it and EMA authorisation? cannot happen because that is what they signed up for? Lord Bethell (Con): My noble friend is, as ever, all Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, there will be an over the detail. It is my understanding that the gap is a occasional moment when there are slight differences matter of weeks rather than there being any clinical between the EMA and MHRA; we are not anticipating divergence in assessment of the evidence. However, I them to be huge and, in this case, we are anticipating am afraid to say that I would have to leave it to the them to be a matter of weeks while one approval does EMA to think for itself on that. not quite overlap with another. The UK Government and the MHRA are working closely with the Northern Lord Rogan (UUP): My Lords, the noble Baroness, Ireland Executive and all relevant stakeholders to Lady Thornton, rightly mentioned waiting lists.According ensure that the supply of medicines to all UK patients, to the most recent statistics, 9% of the population in including those in Northern Ireland, remains smooth, England are on hospital waiting lists—the highest seamless and efficient. figure since records began in 2007. In Northern Ireland, the figure is 23% of the population, by far the highest Lord Cormack (Con): My Lords, I thank my noble proportion in the four home nations. The drug that we friend for his calm and reassuring Answer, but does he are discussing has been widely used in Northern Ireland accept that the real problem is the one pointed to to treat mid and late-stage lung cancer until now. by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, namely, that Cancer patients in Northern Ireland now feel that they of waiting lists? Can we perhaps devise some sort of are being placed at greater risk than cancer patients Nightingale solution to bring forward and have people elsewhere in the United Kingdom. Will the Minister seen in a special place or special places? The real confirm that the supply problems that Northern Ireland danger is that people will be diagnosed too late, and is facing would not exist if the United Kingdom then, whatever the drugs, they will die. Government had not agreed to the European Medicines Agency having jurisdiction in Northern Ireland? Lord Bethell (Con): I endorse my noble friend’s recommendations. He is entirely right that the old Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I do not agree with method of diagnostics, which relied a lot on patients either the basis or detail of the noble Lord’s assertion. attending diagnostic appointments in hospital, feels There is absolutely no delay or problem of access for very out of date after the pandemic. I note the review this drug. He is entirely right to say that Tagrisso is on diagnostics by Professor Sir Mike Richards, which currently offered to patients across the UK, including recommended community hubs, and has a huge amount Northern Ireland, for mid and late-stage disease and it of support within the NHS. We need to build up our will now be offered to patients across the UK, including diagnostic capability, bring it closer to where people Northern Ireland, on exactly the same terms for early-stage live and make it more approachable so that people get disease. early interventions. 447 Osimertinib Cancer Treatment[18 MAY 2021] Misue of Drugs Act 1971 Order 2021 448

Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl): My Lords, I fear what Health Protection (Coronavirus, seems to be a certain complacency in the Department Restrictions) (Steps and Local Authority of Health about what will happen in Northern Ireland from next January, when Brussels takes control of Enforcement Powers) (England) medicines coming into Northern Ireland. How can a (Amendment) Regulations 2021 Conservative and Unionist Party accept that our National Motion to Approve Health Service will now be separated out, whatever the good will that my noble friend might express about 1.14 pm making sure this does not happen? Moved by Lord Bethell Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I reject the accusation That the Regulations laid before the House on of complacency. We have worked unbelievably hard 9 April be approved. with Northern Irish stakeholders, the pharmaceutical industry and EU colleagues to ensure the smooth Relevant documents: 52nd Report from the Secondary running of the supply of medicines in Northern Ireland. Legislation Scrutiny Committee, Session 2019-21, The facts speak for themselves: so far, they have run and 48th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory extremely smoothly indeed. I reassure the noble Baroness Instruments, Session 2019-21 (special attention drawn that the UK Government are committed to parity of to the instrument). Considered in Grand Committee access to medicines across the UK, including Northern on 17 May. Ireland. Despite different approval routes, we have ensured that all patients have access to medicines at Motion agreed. the same time, and we will maintain that commitment.

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]:My Lords, will the Minister commit to meet the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Cash pharmaceutical industry, otherwise known as PAGB, Searches: Code of Practice) Order 2021 which I met several weeks ago and which told me about problems that could ensue from 1 January next year in relation to the availability of over-the-counter Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Investigative medicines in Northern Ireland, due to the requirements Powers of Prosecutors: Code of Practice) of the protocol? Will the Minister undertake to meet this organisation to ensure that there are immediate Order 2021 discussions between the UK and the EU to resolve any ongoing difficulties and impediments? Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 Lord Bethell (Con): I note the point made by the (Investigations: Code of Practice) noble Baroness. As I mentioned in relation to the Order 2021 point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, on this issue, it is not one that I am not aware of, but I would be pleased to meet with the party she described in order to understand it better. Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Recovery of Listed Assets: Code of Practice) The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) Regulations 2021 (LD): My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked and indeed answered. Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Search, Skills and Post-16 Education Bill [HL] Seizure and Detention of Property: Code First Reading of Practice) (Northern Ireland) Order 2021

1.13 pm Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) A Bill to make provision about local skills improvement plans; to make provision relating to further education; Order 2021 to make provision about functions of the Institute for Motions to Approve Apprenticeships and Technical Education and relating to technical education qualifications; to make provision 1.15 pm about student finance and fees; to make provision about assessments by the Office for Students; to make provision Moved by Baroness Williams of Trafford about the funding of certain post-16 education or training providers; and for connected purposes. That the draft Orders and Regulations laid before the House on 22 and 25 March be approved. Considered The Bill was introduced by Baroness Penn (on behalf of in Grand Committee on 17 May. Baroness Berridge), read a first time and ordered to be printed. Motions agreed. 449 Anti-Semitic Attacks [LORDS] Anti-Semitic Attacks 450

Anti-Semitic Attacks outcome of a planning inquiry. Some of the opposition Commons Urgent Question to it has only served to make the case for why it is needed. Today, the Government and, I hope, the whole The following Answer to an Urgent Question was given House send a clear message of support and reassurance in the House of Commons on Monday 17 May. to our Jewish friends and neighbours. We seek a society where the UK’s largest established religions can live “No one could fail to be appalled by the disgraceful safely and freely, and can prosper, as an essential part scenes of anti-Semitic abuse directed at members of of a nation that is confident in its diversity but ultimately the Jewish community in the past week. In Chigwell, strong in its unity.” Rabbi Rafi Goodwin was hospitalised after being attacked outside his synagogue. In London, activists drove 1.16 pm through Golders Green and Finchley, both areas with large Jewish populations,apparently shouting anti-Semitic Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab): My Jewish abuse through a megaphone. These are intimidatory, 97 year-old aunt Rose lives in St John’s Wood. I never racist and extremely serious crimes. The police have imagined I would see such scenes on her street. As since made four arrests for racially aggravated public Simon Wiesenthal said, order offences and have placed extra patrols in the “For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing.” St John’s Wood and Golders Green areas. And Pastor Niemöller wrote: During Shavuot, as always, we stand with our Jewish “First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because friends and neighbours, who have sadly been subjected I was not a Jew.” to a deeply disturbing upsurge in anti-Semitism in Does the Minister agree that each and every one of us recent years, particularly on social media. Like all must stand up to, and speak out against, what we saw forms of racism, anti-Semitism has no place in our at the weekend? society. A lot of young British Jews are discovering for the first time that their friends do not understand anti-Semitism, cannot recognise it and do not care The Minister of State, Home Office and Ministry that they are spreading it. British Jews are not responsible of Housing, Communities and Local Government for the actions of a Government thousands of miles (Lord Greenhalgh) (Con): I completely agree that we away but are made to feel as if they are. They see their must stand in solidarity with British Jews. The events friends post social media content that glorifies Hamas—an we saw in the past week were abhorrent and I am illegal terrorist organisation, whose charter calls for pleased the police acted swiftly to arrest four individuals every Jew in the world to be killed. Today, the world for that offence of driving up and down Finchley Road. celebrates International Day Against Homophobia, Equally, there was the violent attack on Rabbi Rafi Transphobia and Biphobia. Under Hamas, people are Goodwin in Chigwell, and I am pleased to say that the murdered for being gay. latest news is that the police have arrested two individuals concerning that incident. Every time the virus of anti-Semitism re-enters our society, it masks itself as social justice, selling itself as speaking truth to power. This Government are taking Baroness Ludford (LD) [V]: My Lords, it is poignant robust action to root it out. We are leading the way as that today’s exchange on anti-Semitism coincides with the first Government to adopt the International Holocaust the important Jewish festival of Shavuot, which has Remembrance Alliance definition of anti-Semitism kept some of our colleagues away from this debate. and calling on others to do the same. As a result, One of the examples that accompanies the International nearly three-quarters of local councils have adopted Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of anti- it. I have written to councils and universities that are Semitism, is still dragging their feet. They will shortly be named “Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of and shamed if they fail to act. All Members of Parliament, Israel.” bar one, have signed up to it. Can the Minister tell the House what steps the We are also doing our utmost to keep the Jewish Government are taking to ensure that all public and community safe through the £65 million protective private bodies adopt not only the definition but also security grant to protect Jewish schools, synagogues the examples? Can the Government stress at every and community buildings. We are working closely opportunity that the supposedly pro-Palestinian with the Community Security Trust to ensure that demonstrations of recent days have actually been pro- victims can come forward and report attacks to the Hamas, and not in support of the Palestinian people? police. We recognise that education is one of the most Lord Greenhalgh (Con): My Lords, this Government powerful tools we have for tackling anti-Semitism. We are very proud of the fact that they were the first are proud to back the work of the Holocaust Educational adopters of the International Holocaust Remembrance Trust and the Anne Frank Trust, among others, to Alliance definition, and we are working very hard to ensure that we challenge prejudice from an early age. ensure that that is fully embedded across our universities With the last Holocaust survivors leaving us, we are and local councils and, of course, every single Member also ensuring that future generations never forget where of Parliament, bar one, has also signed up to that hatred can lead through—I hope—a new world-class definition. It is important that we take that forward Holocaust memorial and learning centre next to the and we will continue to work very hard to ensure that Palace of Westminster. It is currently awaiting the we tackle anti-Semitism wherever we see it. 451 Anti-Semitic Attacks [18 MAY 2021] Anti-Semitic Attacks 452

Lord Pickles (Con) [V]:My Lords, I draw attention absolutely and ensure that we take these forms of to my entry in the register of interests. The Jew haters anti-Semitism away from both the internet and the and the women-despising thugs who threatened murder streets of our big cities. and sexual violence on our streets brought great shame to our nation. At the first chance, they exposed the Lord Triesman (Lab) [V]: Just a couple of days ago thin veneer between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. and less than half a mile from my home, a motor Does my noble friend share my sadness that many of convoy with loudhailers passed by calling for Jews to the car convoys of violence came from my native city be killed and our daughters raped. I know that there of Bradford, a city that has a proud record of co-operation has been a quick response from political leaders and between communities, not least through the Near the police, although I must say to what effect I do not Neighbours programme? Does he agree that we cannot yet know. I abhor Islamophobia and anti-Semitism. allow the men of violence to define the relationship No decent safe society can live with either. I have between communities? Will he commit to measures never come across a Jewish group calling for the death that combine strict policing and a strong social cohesion? or rape of Muslims. If I did, it would find me an We must, as a priority, remove fear from our streets. outspoken enemy.What discussions have the Government held with the many law-abiding Muslim groups to Lord Greenhalgh (Con): My noble friend, with his encourage public expression of their anger and repudiation experience as a leader of Bradford, is absolutely right. of the hatred of Jews? What concrete additional help We need to combine that strict policing, where we do can be given to the Community Security Trust to more than engage and the police act to ensure that we enhance community protection? take the hate off our streets and online wherever it occurs, with an equally strong and robust approach Lord Greenhalgh (Con): My Lords, we continue to to social cohesion. In fact, Bradford pioneered the have our cross-government working groups to tackle Near Neighbours programme, which brings different both anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim sentiments. We communities,such as the Muslim and Jewish communities, continue to work with a number of stakeholders to closer together. We can learn from that. address those challenges. We also provide substantial support to the Community Security Trust. It is £14 million The Lord Bishop of Manchester [V]: Is the Minister this year, but it has been £65 million to date. We will aware that the Union of Jewish Students has raised continue to support what those groups do, but they serious concerns that Jewish students and societies are also provide important support for other minority and now being targeted with really quite disgusting anti-Semitic faith communities. abuse due to the conflict in the Middle East? Will he reassure Jewish students that the Government will The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) clamp down on all forms of campus anti-Semitism (LD): The noble Lord, Lord Polak, has withdrawn, so and encourage all universities not just to adopt but to I call the noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew. implement the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism? Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB): The remarks by the Lord Greenhalgh (Con): My Lords, we are aware of noble Lord, Lord Greenhalgh, about the speedy action this tension. The Community Security Trust has reported by the police were extremely welcome. For the sake of a massive spike in anti-Semitic incidents, but equally, Holocaust survivors, such as my beloved sister, and Tell MAMA has seen a similar increase in anti-Muslim the whole of the community, can we ensure that once incidents of 420% in the past week. We are funding the prosecutions are brought, they are brought quickly Union of Jewish Students to do precisely that: to and not delayed? Will the Government call on the tackle these issues.Wewant to see the full implementation, Director of Public Prosecutions to account to the not just the adoption, of the IHRA definition of Government for the speedy way in which these cases anti-Semitism. should be processed?

Lord Pannick (CB): The Jewish community will be Lord Greenhalgh (Con): My Lords, I cannot talk very grateful to the Minister for what he said today. about specific cases, but equally, justice delayed is He knows that anti-Semitism is not confined to appalling justice denied. We need to see swift and sure justice in attacks on a rabbi in Chigwell and threats to Jewish these matters. women in north London. The IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, to which the Minister referred a few Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale (Lab): My Lords, moments ago, gives as an example applying double does the Minister understand that while all decent people standards by requiring the State of Israel to behave in in the United Kingdom disapprove of anti-Semitism a way not expected of any other democratic nation. and find it abhorrent, there is particular resonance for Does the Minister accept that there have been many the Jewish community in what was happening on the examples of those double standards in the past week, streets of London just a few days ago? In the 1930s, particularly by broadcasters, and that this more subtle that is exactly the kind of thing that proved to be a form of anti-Semitism contributes to an atmosphere precursor to a Holocaust. Does the Minister agree in which the cruder forms breed? that it behoves all of us, not just the police and the judiciary, but those of us in this and the other House Lord Greenhalgh (Con): My Lords,my right honourable and journalists, to take the utmost caution in the friend in the other House talked about how sometimes language we use to describe events in the Middle East anti-Zionism is a subtler form of anti-Semitism. We just now so that we do not inadvertently inflame the need to root out even those most subtle of forms fires of anti-Semitism? 453 Anti-Semitic Attacks [LORDS] Covid-19 Update 454

Lord Greenhalgh (Con): My Lords, I completely centres, as well as extending opening hours and capacity agree with those sentiments. We need to react and at our existing sites. In Bolton, we have quadrupled enforce robustly, but equally to find the right tone to the rate of vaccination. Wecarried out 6,200 vaccinations cover these sorts of events. over this weekend, and it is brilliant to see so many people from the most vulnerable groups coming forward The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) to get the protection, whether it is their first or second (LD): My Lords, I apologise to the noble Baroness, jab. Lady Eaton, but the time has now elapsed for this All in all, this is the biggest surge of resources into Question. any specific local area that we have seen during the pandemic so far. It has been co-ordinated by Dr Jenny Covid-19 Update Harries, the chief executive of the new UK Health Statement Security Agency, drawing on all the health capabilities, locally and nationally, that we have built in the past The following statement was made in the House of year. I thank everyone who is working so hard to make Commons on Monday 17 May. it happen, including everyone at the two local authorities; “With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to the rapid response team; all the volunteers, including make a statement on coronavirus. Since January last those from St John Ambulance; and, most importantly, year, and especially since 8 December, when the world’s the people of Bolton and Blackburn for the community first clinically authorised coronavirus vaccine was given spirit that they are showing. in Coventry Hospital, we have been engaged—all of It has been really heartening, as I am sure the whole us—in a race between the virus and the vaccine. As a House will agree, to see the videos published over the nation, we have taken some huge strides forward and weekend of people queuing up to get the jab. I say to we can make careful further progress today, and we anyone who feels hesitant about getting the vaccine, must remain vigilant. not just in Bolton or Blackburn, but right across the I can report to the House that there are now fewer country: just look at what is happening at the Royal than 1,000 people in hospital in the United Kingdom Bolton Hospital. The majority of people in hospital with coronavirus, and the average number of daily with coronavirus were eligible for the jab but had deaths is now nine. This progress means we are able to chosen not yet to have it and have ended up in hospital— take step 3 in our road map today, carefully easing some of them in intensive care. Vaccines save lives. some of the restrictions that we have all endured. They protect you, they protect your loved ones and People have missed the things that make life worth they will help us all get out of this pandemic. living, businesses have endured hardship, and everybody This is not just about Bolton and Blackburn. There has made sacrifices. While we can take this step today, are now 86 local authority areas where there are five or we must be humble in the face of this virus. We have more confirmed cases. The next biggest case of concern all learned over the past year that, in a pandemic, we is Bedford, where we are surging testing. I urge everybody must look not just at where we are today, but where in Bedford to exercise caution and engage in testing the evidence shows we may be in weeks and months where it is available. down the track. The vaccination programme can give us confidence, but we must be alert to new variants I also want to tell the House the latest scientific that could jeopardise the advances that we have made. assessment of this variant. The early evidence suggests that B16172 is more transmissible than the previously Today, I would like to update the House on the dominant B1117 variant. We do not yet know to what work we are doing to tackle variants of concern—in extent it is more transmissible. While we do not have particular, variant B16172, which is the variant of the complete picture of the impact of the vaccine, the concern first identified in India—so that we can protect early laboratory data from Oxford University corroborates the progress that we have worked so hard to achieve. the provisional evidence from the Royal Bolton Hospital There are now 2,323 confirmed cases of B16172 in the and the initial observational data from India that UK; 483 of these cases have been seen in Bolton and vaccines are effective against the variant. This, of Blackburn with Darwen, where it is now the dominant course, is reassuring, but the higher transmission poses strain. Cases there have doubled in the last week and a real risk. are rising in all age groups. In Blackburn, hospitalisations are stable, with eight people currently in hospital with All this supports our overriding strategy, which is Covid. In Bolton, 19 people are now in hospital with gradually and cautiously to replace the restrictions on coronavirus, the majority of whom are eligible for a freedom with the protections from the vaccines. The vaccine but have not yet had one. That shows that the data suggests that the vaccine has already saved more new variant is not tending to penetrate into older than 12,000 lives and prevented more than 33,000 vaccinated groups, and underlines again the importance people from being hospitalised, and we are protecting of getting the jab—especially, but not only, among the people at a very rapid pace.Last week was the biggest week vulnerable age groups. of vaccinations since the end of March. Some 36 million In Bolton and Blackburn, we have taken the approach people have now had a first dose, and yesterday we that worked in south London against the South African reached the milestone of 20 million people across the variant. We have surged in our rapid response team: UK having had their second dose. 100 people so far, who visited approximately 35,000 I am delighted to see the figures released by YouGov people this weekend to distribute and collect tests. We today,which show that the UK has the highest vaccination have installed six new testing units, brought in more enthusiasm in the world, with 90% of people saying that than 50 new vaccinators and set up two new vaccination they have had or will have the jab. This was no accident. 455 Covid-19 Update [18 MAY 2021] Covid-19 Update 456

We began planning the campaign for vaccine uptake a The Covid variant first detected in India looks as year ago. I thank the huge range of people involved though it has now seeded in 86 areas and is set to in promoting the benefits of vaccination, from Her become the dominant strain in the UK within the next Majesty the Queen to Sir Elton John, Harry Redknapp, few days or weeks. Indeed, many experts think that it Lenny Henry, Holly Willoughby, Lydia West and many, was a mistake for the Government to go ahead with many others. Our campaign has been based on positivity the easing of lockdown restrictions implemented yesterday. and science, and I am grateful to everybody who has I suppose that there must be increasing doubt about played their part. whether the further lifting of lockdown measures will I can confirm that from tomorrow we will be inviting be able to go ahead as planned next month. I will not people aged 37 to come forward, before expanding this ask the Minister to give any definitive answers on that further later in the week. It has been brilliant to see people’s because I absolutely accept that uncertainty is the enthusiasm when they have been invited to come forward, name of the game. However, I quote one of the four and we want to make it as easy as possible for them to tests that the Government set out for proceeding with show that they have had the protection the vaccine the road map out of lockdown, which is if provides. I am delighted to say that, as of today, “our assessment of the risks is not fundamentally changed by new people can demonstrate whether they have had their Variants of Concern”— jab, quickly and simply, through the NHS app. in other words, if there are new variants of concern, Since January, we have been following a dosing that may be the issue. Is this still the case? interval of 12 weeks for second doses. Because of the extra protection people get from the second dose, The Royal Statistical Society, which promotes the particularly among those most likely to end up in proper use of data, is concerned that the Government hospital or dying, it is incredibly important that everyone have failed to publish the information justifying their comes forward for that second dose at the right moment. decision that stage 3 of lockdown easing should go The approach we have taken aims to give the most ahead because the new variant threat has been met. vulnerable the strongest possible protection against Will the Government publish the framework for that this virus. Since January, that has meant getting the decision and the data that fed into it so that people can first dose to as many people as possible, as quickly as be assured that the facts justify the policy? Can the possible. The research shows that this approach has Minister confirm reports in the Times that officials saved about 12,000 lives. have drawn up plans for local lockdowns modelled on Now, it is important to accelerate the second doses the tier 4 restrictions introduced last year, and that, for all those most vulnerable to ending up in hospital under these measures, people will be advised to stay at or dying. Our vaccination strategy for all parts of the home and non-essential shops and hospitality will be UK, including the areas of surge vaccination, will closed, if the new strain is not brought under control? therefore stick by the clinical advice set out by the On Bolton and Bedford, I regret to say this, but it Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation: seemed that the Secretary of State reverted to a blame first, prioritise anyone over 50 who has not yet been game yesterday, perhaps to deflect from the fact that vaccinated; next, second doses to those over 50 are the Government did not do enough to protect us from vital—that will now be done on a schedule of eight this new variant. He said that people infected by the weeks; and then, follow the cohorts in priority order, new variant in hospitals in Bolton had refused or not and the age groups as we open them. This clinically taken up the vaccine and had chosen not to take the approved approach is the best way to save the most jab. I felt that was very unfair. lives, rather than jumping ahead with first doses for younger people. Although the JCVI of course keeps My honourable friend the MP for Bolton, Yasmin this under constant review, we are clear that its advice Qureshi, says that the vaccine is not easily accessible to is the best way to protect those most in need of some of the poorer and BAME communities in Bolton: protection and so save as many lives as we can. The for example, some people have to take three buses to NHS will be reiterating this advice to all vaccination get to the vaccine centre in the centre of the town. If centres and all directors of public health, and I am you are not mobile and do not have flexibility in your very grateful to everyone, in the NHS, local authorities working hours, or are a key worker and have caring and in the whole system supporting this vaccination responsibilities in a multigenerational household, you programme, for following it. are not refusing the vaccine if you cannot get to it. Today’s opening and step 3 marks an important Turning to Bedford, the Secretary of State, step on our road to recovery. We must proceed with Matt Hancock, has said that Bedford is now to be among caution and care, and bear down on the virus, in the areas given surge testing, as the borough recorded whatever form it attacks us, so that in this race between the second highest rates of Covid-19 infection in the the vaccine and the virus, our humanity, science, and country, and that cases were doubling every five days. ingenuity will prevail. I commend this Statement to This comes after the MP, the mayor and the health the House.” chiefs all called on the Government to act quickly to prevent further spread of the variant in Bedford. For days they have felt ignored. They have felt that the 1.27 pm Government wanted to recognise the new variant as a Baroness Thornton (Lab): My Lords, I thank the northern problem, which clearly is not the case because Minister for being here to take this Statement. We it is in Bedford. My honourable friend Mohammad keep meeting like this; it is over a year now. I wonder Yasin MP said that, after a fair bit of dither and delay, whether our relationship needs to move on. he welcomes surge testing in Bedford. 457 Covid-19 Update [LORDS] Covid-19 Update 458

[BARONESS THORNTON] and trace data? Can the Minister place on the record Can the Minister tell us whether it is true that that data and the raw data which made him, and the Bedford has no access to the Pfizer vaccine at the Secretary of State, say that India’s positivity rate was moment? This must limit a comprehensive vaccine three times higher? campaign in that town; you cannot do a comprehensive Another area of concern is people entering the UK vaccine campaign, especially if you are dealing with being huddled together at the border with people the under-40s, if you do not have two or three of the entering from red-list countries. One needs only to vaccines that are available. I am aware also that reports look at the significant Twitter feeds from yesterday of of many people choosing to delay their jab were about people arriving from green or amber countries, who concerns over side effects and whether they would be were spending up to four hours in queues to get over available for work or might struggle to manage their the UK border and having to stand next to and mingle responsibilities. So the Government must give resourcing with people entering from red-list countries. Heathrow and support on these issues and improve the flexibility, and Manchester Airports were responding that, despite information and understanding at a local level. asking the Government for more border staff to deal The Minister is also aware that achieving the truly with the issue, none had been forthcoming. remarkable vaccine take-up among adults will still This was planned. We knew that international travel leave 20% of the wider population—our children— was allowed and the Government knew that the traffic- unvaccinated, meaning of course that the virus can light system was being introduced, so why have the still spread. So can he update the House on any plans Government not carried out the wishes of the airport to vaccinate the under-18s? It also remains unclear for operators to ensure that more border staff and more how long vaccines prevent Covid-19. Initial studies guidance are available to segregate those entering from suggest that it may be six months, or possibly longer. red-list countries? This is a clear public health crisis at Well, those who were vaccinated in December are our border, and the Government have not, to date, rapidly approaching that. So we need to know whether solved it. So, as a matter of urgency, when will this there will be declining protection from Covid and public health breach right at our borders be solved? what assessment the Minister has made of this risk. Can he update the House on plans to roll out booster Finally, as variants of concern continue to enter the shots this autumn? country and replicate at speed, “isolate, isolate, isolate” becomes vital. Yesterday, the Secretary of State in Finally, at this critical time when we need to work another place indicated to Munira Wilson MP that internationally, why are we the only G7 nation cutting the Government were worried that isolation might not our aid budget? How can the Government defend be as robust as required, and that some pilots were cutting our contribution to vital science and research taking place. Can the Minister outline where they are, projects? Given the Government’s total silence on what the parameters of the pilots are and when the President Biden’s support for the temporary lifting of results will be made public? Also, overwhelming evidence patent protections to increase vaccine production, should now shows that people on lower salaries must be paid we assume that the British Government do not agree their full wages and given support to ensure that they with the President? can comply with full isolation requirements. Will the Government now look at this as a matter of urgency? Lord Scriven (LD): My Lords, I too thank the Minister for coming before the House to deal with this Statement, and also for his work ethic in dealing with TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department Covid-19 over the last 14 months. of Health and Social Care (Lord Bethell) (Con): My From these Benches, we have always said that we Lords, I am enormously grateful for the very detailed will support whatever is proportionate and follows and thorough questions from the noble Baroness and evidence to keep people safe. The more that you delve the noble Lord, and I am also appreciative of and into the Government’s reason for not including India touched by their kind comments. on the red list at the same time as Pakistan and The noble Baroness asked about the Indian variant Bangladesh, the more it feels like a big ball of candyfloss and the uptake of the vaccines. I reassure her that we that initially seems tempting but disintegrates on touch. are doing absolutely everything that we can to ensure Yesterday, both the Minister and the Secretary of that there is a thorough uptake of the vaccine among State said that India was not put on the red list at the all communities. She spoke touchingly about the feeling same time as Pakistan and Bangladesh because of the of blame associated with those in hospital who people positivity rate. hear have not taken the vaccine. I hear her comments, Looking at the figures for the two weeks before but there is no attribution of blame meant in this. It is Bangladesh and Pakistan were put on the red list, the a simple statement of fact that if you do not take the positivity rate for India was 5.1%. For Pakistan, it was vaccine that is offered to you, or if you do not take two slightly higher at 6.2%, yet for Bangladesh it was lower, doses, and you then expose yourself to the virus, that at 3.7%. The same data—the Government’s test and is putting yourself in substantial danger, and it is a trace data—shows that in the same two-week period, clinical observation that many of those who have 50% of all new variants entering the UK, including ended up in hospital with severe disease are those who those of concern, were from India: the largest country have not had the vaccine, even though they may have by far. Therefore, variants of concern and positivity been offered it. rates show India to be on a par with, or ahead of, The noble Baroness asked about accessibility. She is Bangladesh and Pakistan. So what data were the entirely right that there are some people to whom we Government actually using, if it was not their own test as a healthcare system have not made ourselves accessible 459 Covid-19 Update [18 MAY 2021] Covid-19 Update 460 enough. During this pandemic we have moved on I cannot immediately recognise from the Bench the from using the phrase “hard to reach” and we now data the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, gave on the India think of it in terms of people who find us “hard to VoCs. I wonder whether it was data that emerged after access”. She makes a perfectly reasonable observation we made the decisions, because a lot of the sequencing in that respect, but I reassure her that we have absolutely data is retrospective; it takes between a week and bent over backwards to do everything we can to put 10 days to emerge from the Sanger Institute. That is the vaccine in front of all groups in the country, one of the difficulties in making these decisions, which particularly those in areas such as Bolton, which we sometimes seem so clear-cut in retrospect. When you recognise have in the past been places where we have have the data available to you on the day, the decisions not got our message across. are not necessarily quite so apparent. I do not really recognise the criticisms the noble Lord I personally am hugely touched by the videos I have makes of the red list system. The red list system we seen of people now queueing to have the vaccine. I have in the UK is an incredibly important shield and is applaud all community leaders and those who work proving extremely effective. Segregation is unbelievably with communities in Bolton, who have clearly mobilised difficult during travel. It is very difficult to segregate a huge amount of public sentiment behind the vaccine amber list and red list passengers on a plane, train or programme. We are seeing a transformation in the ferry. Within an airport it is very difficult to segregate penetration rates among some very important people, because of the physical proximity. That is why communities. travelling is dangerous, why we tell people not to travel There is more that we can do. I am open to any and why, when people do travel, we tell them to isolate. suggestions from noble Lords on how we can do Travelling is dangerous, and that is not news to us or better, but I would like to reassure noble Lords that we to the people who get on those planes in the first place. have strained every sinew in trying to achieve vaccine The ultimate sanction here is that, particularly as we equity across all groups in the country. That is true not go into the summer, we tell people: travelling is not for only in Bolton but in Bedford, and I am disturbed to this year. Please stay in this country. hear that people in Bedford feel they may have somehow On the isolation pilots the noble Lord referred to, been overlooked. I do not believe that is the view of the we are running a large amount of work on pilots for Vicky Head in Bedford, the DPH, and we have worked isolation generally. If he would like to write to me extremely closely with her. I assure the noble Baroness about the particular pilots he was referring to, I will be that cluster 2, linked to 12 cases in Bedford, was glad to give him an update. I am afraid I am not quite targeted immediately. An MTU went to the community clear at this stage which ones he is referring to. on 8 May, and two community sites were opened up on 10 May. We have absolutely prioritised Bedford, as The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) we have Sefton, Leicester,Nottingham and London—all (LD): My Lords, we now come to the 30 minutes areas where clusters have broken out. There is absolutely allocated for Back-Bench questions. We do not have no question of prioritising one area over another. On that many Back-Bench questioners, but it is still quite the availability of the Pfizer vaccine in Bedford, that is good discipline if people keep their questions and news to me. I will be glad to look into that and to write answers as brief and relevant as possible. to the noble Baroness accordingly. 1.45 pm On children, as noble Lords will be aware, this is an area in which some of the vaccine companies are Lord Popat (Con) [V]: My Lords, I thank my noble making considerable progress in their clinical trials. friend the Minister for his repeat of the Statement. It None is categoric yet. It is too early to have agreed policy is indeed welcome news for people and the economy in this area, but the noble Baroness makes a very good that we are able to move to step 3 in our road map. point. Opening up the Covid vaccine, as we have with However, as the Health Secretary said, the flu vaccine, means that not only are children with “we must be humble in the face of this virus.”—[Official Report, some kind of vulnerability, particularly to long Covid, Commons, 17/5/21; col. 424.] put into a safe place but that the transmissibility of While the UK has had the highest vaccination enthusiasm that important age group can be reduced. in the world, does the Minister agree that it is deeply worrying that many people eligible for a vaccine, I am afraid we cannot know for certain the long-term particularly among vulnerable age groups, have still effect of the vaccine until time has passed, but the not had one? This was seen in Bolton, where the CMO’s view is that the indications on the body’s majority of the 19 patients admitted to hospital with immune system are extremely strong. At this moment the new Indian variant, especially people from ethnic- it seems the vaccine is working, and our confidence is minority communities, have not had a vaccine. What at a reasonably high point, but we remain vigilant. further support can the Government give to promote VoCs could emerge that either reduce the effectiveness the better uptake of vaccines among ethnic minorities? of the vaccine or, for instance, effect some kind of decline in protection from the vaccine. That is why we Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, my noble friend have put in place contingent plans for boosters in the refers to humility and he is right: we have all had to autumn. Those boosters might be of the existing suite develop a stronger sense of humility in the face of this of vaccines that are proving extremely effective. We awful virus and this dreadful pandemic. It has taught are also looking for VoC vaccines that may be used to us that, despite all our 21st-century healthcare systems, supplement the range of immune responses so that they we are all vulnerable to its awful effects. His words are cover any new mutations or variants that may emerge. absolutely spot on. I repeat the statistic that 69.4% of 461 Covid-19 Update [LORDS] Covid-19 Update 462

[LORD BETHELL] measures in schools has been enormously effective. adults across the UK have had the vaccine, because One of the remarkable aspects of the infection rate so the overall story of the vaccine rollout has been one of far is that transmission levels among school-aged children incredible participation by the British public. Not only have not increased in the way that SAGE and others, have I never been involved in anything quite so successful including myself, once feared. We should take a “glass in my life but there are very few national projects half-full” moment to applaud that fact. I reassure the anywhere in the world that have been as successful. I noble Lord that we will absolutely make these decisions really applaud all communities in every part of Britain on the data. Space has been put in between the steps for the way in which they have stepped up to the vaccine. for exactly that reason, and we are not going to rush it. My noble friend is right that there are some communities in which those levels are not as high as they should be. Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD) [V]: My Lords, That has led to higher transmission among younger could the Minister outline the Government’s plans for people, and in a few cases that has led to severe disease test and trace as lockdown is lifted, particularly in among older people who, frankly, should have taken areas such as Bolton and Bedford where surge testing their vaccine. I urge everyone to step up to their is currently being deployed? With former centrally opportunity. based Public Health England staff being disbanded and senior civil servants returning to their own posts, Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB): As the Minister, what financial resources are being passed to the local who has worked tirelessly during Covid, knows only resilience teams, run by local directors of public health, too well, an outbreak anywhere can become an outbreak to operate test and trace, which will be so critical to everywhere. Can he tell us how the UK plans to controlling the spread of the virus alongside the vaccine increase vaccine distribution globally through COVAX rollout? to control the pandemic and decrease the risk of further variants arising in countries with high rates of Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, the outbreak in infection, particularly as the risk of vaccine-resistant Bolton,Bedford,Londonandelsewherehasdemonstrated, variants will remain high for at least a decade? if that were needed, the paramount importance of keeping resources for test and trace at a critical level, Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, the Tedros principle and that is what we have done. Since the national of us being safe only when we are all safe remains the infection rate is lower, there is a much greater emphasis most profound insight. The noble Baroness is entirely on the kind of surge activity and outbreak management right: we must do more to try to help those in the that the noble Baroness describes. Sequencing has developing world. The frustrating truth is that the world proved to be an essential part of that process, and we simply does not have enough capacity for the manufacture have brought sequencing from the back of the laboratory of these very complex and tricky substances. We are to the front line of test and trace operation. Every straining every sinew to try to deliver the 9 billion single positive case is now treated as though it were a vaccines we need to deliver worldwide vaccination, but VOC, with the same amount of tracing and sequencing the rate of manufacturing is not as high as any of us that a VOC would have had a few weeks ago. We have would like. I take my hat off in particular to AstraZeneca, the full operation on standby. Should another wave of which has provided licences for the vaccine worldwide infections arrive, as it may well do with the relaxing of on a no-profit basis, but I also pay tribute to the other social distancing, we have the systems in place to be vaccine companies, which, despite what one might read able to deal with it. in the press, are trying all they can to set up manufacturing sites all around the world. Progress is being made. Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con): My Lords, I Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab): My Lords, I too declare my interest as Deputy Colonel Commandant salute AstraZeneca for its noble efforts. However, I of the Brigade of Gurkhas. The Indian variant is would like to take the Minister back to the SAGE spreading not just across the United Kingdom but meeting of 13 May, when the Government were warned: across the north Indian plains and into Nepal, a “In the areas where numbers of infections are increasing country ill-equipped to deal with such a pandemic. rapidly … an even faster increase can be expected if measures are Given the speed of response and support offered to relaxed”. India, I simply ask my noble friend whether the The Government went ahead with relaxing the measures Government will respond positively to Nepal’s request yesterday. I know that Mr Dominic Cummings can for 2 million doses of vaccine. perhaps not be regarded as the most reliable of commentators, but was he not right to say that fast, Lord Bethell (Con): I am grateful for the briefing on hard and effective action is the best policy for the Nepal I had earlier from my noble friend. The scenes economy, as opposed to always delaying taking decisive that we have seen in north-west India are heart-breaking. action? When it comes to the next stage, can we be Nepal is such a good example of the kind of country reassured that the decision will not be taken until the that the global community needs to surround and evidence in June is fully assessed and evaluated? support with vaccine technology that, frankly, is for G7-style countries to help to provide to developing Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I am a big supporter countries. I take my noble friend’s point completely on of the “fast and hard”principle.In our response in Bolton, board. I do not have immediately to hand the statistics Bedford, London and elsewhere, we have demonstrated about what Britain is doing for Nepal on the vaccine that principle in our handling of the Indian variant. I front, but I will be glad to write to him with any data point out that the use of testing and social distancing that I can put together. 463 Covid-19 Update [18 MAY 2021] Covid-19 Update 464

Baroness Bull (CB): My Lords, I declare my interests cause of this dangerous Indian variant—I am sure that as set out in the register. With the move to stage 3 of at some point the Government will have to answer the road map, university students can now return to fully to Parliament—and that it is not true, even as a campus. Most of them are too young to have received clinical assessment, despite the media repeatedly and vaccines so students around the country will form a consistently suggesting this,that the uptake of vaccinations significant cohort of young people undertaking regular is the responsibility of certain communities. The Minister and frequent testing as a matter of course. What will appreciate the likely and even inevitable consequences consideration has been given to the benefits of sustaining of rising Islamophobia and hate crimes, as has been PCR testing and sequencing at scale in universities as reported by Tell MAMA. What are the Government a way of rapidly identifying and understanding new going to do to monitor and support local communities variants? Will the Government consider providing funding to ensure that they do not face such consequences? Also, to support that in future? echoing the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, what plans and resources are in place to monitor and support compliance Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I pay tribute to the as we enter the next phase of the road map? vice-chancellors and to the universities and colleges of Britain for the way in which they have embraced campus Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I have to be honest testing. It has been a salutary lesson in what can be with the noble Baroness: I am not sure it is helpful to try done, and it has helped to keep infection rates down to connect healthcare policy decisions with a commentary on campuses where there has been a small number of on hate crime. The people who have not stepped up to returning students to date. That is done mainly through the vaccine come from a very wide variety of communities; LFD testing. Positive tests then have a complementary it is not one single community that has been singled out. PCR test, and the PCR test is automatically sequenced We are talking about everyone from migrant workers if it is positive. The combination of LFD, PCR and in the apple yards of Herefordshire, to hard-working sequencing is the right one for keeping infection rates off-book sweat-shop labourers in east Leicestershire. In down, but we tweak the formula as and when best between there are people from manydifferent communities advice comes in. who have not taken advantage of the vaccine opportunity. We are working really closely at NHS level to reassure Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]: My Lords, the pandemic has community leaders and individuals concerned that the hit the low-paid and the poor the hardest. The vaccine is safe and will provide protection. That is the Government need to commit to a road map to a better right conversation to have. post-Covid society so I invite them to make two pledges. First, at the very least, they need to reduce the NHS Lord Bradshaw (LD) [V]: The bus industry has waiting lists in England from the present 4.95 million cleaned up its buses and introduced lots of ventilation, to 2.5 million, which was the case in 2010. Will the and people are wearing masks. Is there any hope that Minister pledge to do exactly that by the end of this the amount of social distancing on buses will be Parliament or even sooner? If not, why not? Secondly, reduced in the near future, because there is a lot of the poorest 10% of households pay 47.6% of their unused capacity? income in direct and indirect taxes, compared with 33.5% for the richest 10% of households. This condemns Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I pay tribute to the bus millions of people to poor food, housing and health, industry.Many noble Lords will remember those terrible which is a key reason for deaths during this pandemic. stories at the beginning of the pandemic about bus Will the Government pledge to eliminate that injustice drivers having an extremely high incidence of severe by the end of this Parliament? disease and even death. But the noble Lord should have hope as there is a really good reason why the buses Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I recognise some of will one day be full, and that is the vaccine. The vaccine the noble Lord’s insights. It is undoubtedly true that gives us all hope that the kind of life we once had can the low-paid and the poor have been hardest hit by be revisited, although we have to take some time to Covid, both by the infection rates themselves and by ensure that the vaccines are working as well as they the lockdown. That is a frustrating truth that is completely should. We have to ensure that booster shots, if needed, recognised and acknowledged by the Government. It are delivered. We have to ensure that the vaccine cuts is also true that the low-paid and the poor have health through to all communities and that hygiene—the inequalities that have themselves made people more social distancing, handwashing and other personal vulnerable to sickness, both from Covid and from the hygiene disciplines which are going to be a long-term non-Covid diseases that have been exacerbated by commitment by the entire nation—is truly imbedded limited access to some parts of the NHS. We are in everyone’s habits. absolutely committed to reducing NHS waiting lists—that is an incredibly important part of the “build back better” Baroness Verma (Con): My Lords, I thank my noble mantra—but we need to do more to bring a degree of friend for the Statement repeat and congratulate him levelling up to all parts of society in order to address on the work he has been doing over the last many the symptoms that the noble Lord rightly describes. months. Does he agree that the public health messaging, which has been very good in all communities, should Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl): My Lords, I welcome continue because we are going to get many other the remarkable progress of the uptake of the vaccine forms of variant? As the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, in all communities, and I thank the Minister for coming says, this is going to be an ongoing issue, probably for to us with this Statement. However, I am sure he will a number of years, and continuous messaging will be understand that serious questions remain about the key. Will he also tell me, given the recent new variant, Government’s decision not to red-list being a direct what conversations he is having with counterparts 465 Covid-19 Update [LORDS] Covid-19 Update 466

[BARONESS VERMA] go to all those who have made this step to normality from the countries concerned to see how that variant possible, particularly my noble friend. However, like is reacting, what is happening there and whether it is others, I have concerns about the entry arrangements reproducing rapidly or slowly, so that better informed at airports. While I fully understand the difficulties of decisions can be made in our own country? segregation and that international travel should be strongly discouraged, does he agree that more should Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I am extremely be done to prevent passengers arriving from red, amber grateful to my noble friend for her insight. She is and green countries mixing—particularly at airport entirely right; this awful pandemic does have a silver border entry points with those from red countries, lining, which is that it can be an inflection point for a where, as he has just said, there is obviously a high complete transformation in our public health messaging. degree of infection? The work we are doing on communicating the threat of the variants is one example of that. The next front Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, I enjoyed the line will be the flu jab rollout in the autumn, where contemporary dance at Sadler’s Wells, which really take-up rates have been okay but not great. I hope lifted my heart, but I rather wish I had been at Saracens that, when the flu jab campaign begins this autumn, a for that thumping victory and to see my favourite completely different generation and spread of people team doing so well after a difficult year. I very clearly will step up to that opportunity. We are working hear the concerns of noble Lords about social mixing extremely hard to use the public mood and sentiment of amber and red route passengers at airports, and behind preventive medicine to full effect to ensure that one reads about it in the papers. I reassure noble Lords the flu jab works,that therefore a much smaller proportion that the amount of segregation in place in the airports of the population will transmit flu, and that deaths is the focus of both Border Force and the Home Office. and severe disease from flu will be reduced. That can We are absolutely doing our best. We are looking at be the legacy of this awful pandemic. red list terminals, but the practicalities of that when there is a relatively low level of flights are very challenging Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB) [V]: My Lords, indeed. I reiterate my point that if you are travelling I welcome the vigilant focus described in this Statement you are putting yourself at risk, and there is no way we that has been adopted by the Government, and that can pretend otherwise. If you are travelling, you should the response is being co-ordinated through the UK isolate yourself for a substantial amount of time when Health Security Agency. Could the Minister explain you touch down in the UK. This question of mingling how England is working with the other three countries in airports is, to some extent, a red herring. in the UK to ensure that a proactive approach is taken to the new virus variant, that the uptake of vaccines Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]: My increases, that the monitoring of transmission continues, Lords, it is clear that the B16172 variant of SARS-CoV-2 and to enable early intervention should the number of is now established in the community, but that only cases increase? In particular,what data are the Government highlights the need to keep out further variants of collecting on the number of people in quarantine concern that will inevitably arise around the world as hotels testing positive for coronavirus and how many the coronavirus runs rampant. Following the question people have absconded from quarantine? Would the of the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins of Tavistock, Government consider adopting a process similar to can the Minister reassure me about the security the electronic tagging undertaken in South Korea, arrangements in quarantine facilities given the number to more accurately monitor the movement of people of cases of transmission in New Zealand and Australia, in and out of the country at its borders? who have long practised quarantine? How often are staff being tested? Are they being paid in ways that Lord Bethell (Con): I am enormously grateful to the mean they do not have to take other jobs, particularly noble Baroness for that creative and thoughtful question. jobs where they may have contact with large numbers The good news is that the number of absconding of people?Areventilationsystemsbeingcheckedregularly? residents from managed quarantine is minimal; it can be counted on one hand and many of them have been Lord Bethell (Con): My Lords, the noble Baroness retrieved. The bad news is that the positivity rate in is entirely right to cite the examples of Australia and managed quarantine is far too high. I do not have the New Zealand and the challenges they have had with precise number in front of me and do not want to staff manning managed quarantine facilities. I am guess at it, but it is clearly true that far too many extremely grateful to officials from both Australia and people are getting on planes when they are infected New Zealand for the very thorough briefings we had and far too many people are catching the disease on when we set up our managed quarantine facilities. We their travels. When we think of how to manage any totally took on board their profound insight on that vaccine-evading and highly transmissible variants, we area and that was the number one thing they told us to have to look to the red list for secure protection for get right. We focused on it, we have invested in it, and this country. She asked another question I cannot that has worked well to date. remember, but I will be glad to write to her about it. The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con): My Lords, Lord Randall of Uxbridge (Con) [V]: I was genuinely all questions have been asked and answered. excited to be able to attend a Saracens rugby match last night, and I notice from my noble friend’s Twitter 2.10 pm feed that he too was out last night enjoying a thoroughly well-deserved visit to Sadler’s Wells. My sincere thanks Sitting suspended. 467 Arrangement of Business [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 468

Arrangement of Business judge and courtroom available, with no limit on sitting Announcement days this year. We will learn from our experience with remote hearings and seek to retain them where appropriate. 2.17 pm These measures will enable us to deliver swifter outcomes The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con): My Lords, for victims who might otherwise see their cases delayed. the Hybrid Sitting of the House will now resume. I ask We know the old adage: justice delayed is justice Members to respect social distancing. denied. We do not want to see justice denied to anyone, so we will work hard to speed up the justice system, as it emerges from the pandemic. Queen’s Speech However, our commitment to delivering justice for Debate (5th Day) victims does not end at trial, and it certainly does not 2.17 pm begin there. Wewant to ensure that victims are supported and their rights recognised at every stage of the criminal Moved on Tuesday 11 May by Lord Bates justice system. During the last Session, we published a That an humble Address be presented to Her revised victims’ code, which set out the rights to which Majesty as follows: victims are entitled. We will now go further: we will work to ensure both the standard and the availability “Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty’s of victims’ rights, beginning with a consultation on a most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual ground-breaking victims’ Bill that will enshrine the and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave new code in legislation. to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses We are acutely aware that crimes such as domestic of Parliament”. abuse, rape and sexual violence, which disproportionately affect women and girls, shatter not only the lives of the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry victims but also those of their families. The whole of Justice (Lord Wolfson of Tredegar) (Con): My Lords, country was shaken earlier this year by the death of it is a privilege and pleasure to open this fifth day of Sarah Everard, which was a harrowing reminder of debate on Her Majesty’s most gracious Speech. Today’s the violence to which many—far too many—women debate on justice, home affairs and cultural issues will and girls in our society are subjected. As such, in allow us to explore some of the key themes that Her addition to the landmark Domestic Abuse Act passed Majesty expounded in her Speech last week. Many of last Session, we will continue to make supporting victims these matters are central to a well-functioning society, and survivors of these crimes a priority. We will publish including the recovery of our justice system in the the end-to-end rape review action plan, working to wake of the Covid-19 pandemic; the prevention of ensure that, at each stage of our justice system, from violent crime and the delivery of justice for victims; reporting and investigation to trial and sentence, rape the basis and operation of our constitutional settlement; cases are considered with the diligence and gravity the way that our immigration and asylum systems that they deserve. work in practice; and how the United Kingdom will We will publish a new tackling violence against respond to digital and technological developments, women and girls strategy and a domestic abuse strategy, including online safety and the security of our which will work in tandem to drive real change in this communications. Given the wealth of experience on area. We received 180,000 responses to our call for all sides of the House, my noble friend Lady Williams evidence to inform these strategies. The views of victims, of Trafford and I look forward to hearing the contributions survivors and the public will be at the heart of our that will be made by noble Lords in today’s debate. approach. We will also review our national statement The last year was like none in recent memory and of expectations, to ensure that police and crime has been difficult for everyone. None the less, this commissioners approach these crimes in a collaborative Government have remained steadfast in responding to and robust way. the Covid-19 crisis. The pandemic affected all areas of This approach reflects our wider strategy.The Police, life, both private and public, and the justice system is Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, which has been no exception. The past year has been particularly held over from last Session, will further our commitment challenging for our courts and tribunals, so I first, and to being tough on crime and its perpetrators. We will importantly, want to express my gratitude to those give our police more powers to tackle crime, we will working across the justice system, whose efforts over protect our emergency workers and increase sentences the last year meant that the wheels of justice never for those who would harm them, and we will establish stopped turning. They are now turning faster: almost a new, smarter approach to sentencing that sees our all jurisdictions are now completing cases at pre-pandemic most dangerous criminals spend longer in prison. levels. I am aware that there has been a lot of discourse However, we are aware that there is much further to about the public order provisions in this Bill, much of go—so, as we begin a new Session and social distancing which is based on a misunderstanding of what the restrictions ease, one of our top priorities will be to provisions actually do and the genesis of the legislation. accelerate the work already taking place to address the These measures have been portrayed by some as effects of the pandemic on courts and tribunals, and draconian and a dismantling of our civil liberties; this we will also use this opportunity to secure further is both misinformed and wrong. The right to protest is improvements for our justice system. As such, we will a fundamental and important freedom—but so is implement measures to ensure that the Crown Courts the right to go about your business unhindered. are running to their maximum capacity, using every These provisions allow police to take a more proactive 469 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 470

[LORD WOLFSON OF TREDEGAR] Cicero’smaxim, “Salus populi suprema lex esto”—your approach in managing disproportionately disruptive Lordships will of course require no translation—remains protests, which place an unnecessary burden upon our absolutely true. The safety and security of the people citizens. of this country must be, and will be, the primary concern It is that sense of balance that permeates a lot of of this Government. We live increasingly in an online the work which this Government plan to deliver over world, as the television screens above me show, so we the next Session, and nowhere is this more apparent also want to ensure that the United Kingdom is the than in relation to our work on the constitution and safest place to be online as well as offline. judicial review. That is why we will deliver on our manifesto I am sure everyone will agree that our uncodified—I commitment to introduce an online safety Bill to set a did not say unwritten— constitution is something to global standard for safety online. It will include the be both celebrated and preserved. That includes examining most comprehensive approach yet to online regulation, the fine and critical balance between the Executive, the requiring platforms and search engines contained within judiciary and the legislature. its scope to tackle illegal content and protect our That is why we plan to introduce a judicial review young people from harmful material. and courts Bill, which will not only introduce many of Major platforms will also be required to set out, the court recovery measures I mentioned earlier, but with clarity, their own terms and conditions about will work to restore the balance between our institutions legal but harmful content for adults, and to enforce of state. We want to protect the judiciary from being these rules consistently and transparently. unnecessarily pulled into political matters. Let me be clear and unambiguous: this is not about abolishing The Bill will also enshrine in law safeguards for free judicial review. We will ensure the integrity of the speech. We will use this opportunity to defend freedom judicial review process. But the idea, put about by of expression and promote the valuable role of a some who should know better, that the judicial review free press that now exists online as much as it does in process cannot be improved or that it must remain a newsprint. This will allow us to usher in a new era of no-go area for government is false. Public law is too accountability for technology giants, and to protect important to be left only to public lawyers. our children, ensuring that future generations have a healthy relationship with the internet. We are still considering the submissions made to the recent consultation, which itself built on the work We are also aware of the importance of ensuring by the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, and his team, and the long-term security and resilience of our considered further areas for reform. We expect to telecommunications network. The Telecommunications increase the flexibility provided to judges by ensuring, (Security) Bill will create one of the most rigorous among other things, that more flexible and effective telecommunication security regimes in the world. It remedies are available, and to review the merits of the will protect and future-proof our networks as technologies Supreme Court’s decision in Cart. grow and evolve, shielding our critical national Our desire to ensure that our society’s vital systems infrastructure both now and in the future. It will allow function as fairly and as effectively as possible extends us to manage the risks posed by high-risk vendors. to our plans for the borders Bill that we will introduce. We will also ensure that the national This will implement the most significant overhaul of telecommunications system flourishes. Wewill introduce our immigration and asylum systems for decades. a second Bill, the product security and telecommunications At the heart of this Bill is a simple principle: fairness. infrastructure Bill, to allow us to deliver on our Presently, we have a generous asylum system that connectivity ambitions by making sure that offers protection to the most vulnerable people around telecommunications equipment can be installed, shared the world through defined safe and legal routes. But and upgraded as quickly and efficiently as possible, this system is collapsing under the pressure of parallel, and by assuring consumers that the smart devices that often extremely dangerous, illegal routes to asylum, we all now bring into our homes—the so-called the facilitated by criminals smuggling people into the UK. internet of things—are secure. This legislation will We believe that access to our asylum system should underline the UK’s continued global leadership on be based on need and not on the ability to pay people cybersecurity and allow consumer-connected technology smugglers. When people are dying, as they are, we to continue to grow. have a duty to act. The Border Force already has a We also have to look at the threat posed to us by range of powers and capabilities to deal with maritime hostile activities from other states—a threat that is threats, but we will use this legislative opportunity to ever-growing, diversifying and evolving. Unlike terrorists, strengthen them further. We will introduce new powers who rely on grabbing the public’s attention, this sort of to target the increasing use of vessels by criminal hostile activity operates in the shadows and remains gangs to facilitate illegal entry to the UK. hidden. Although these acts fall short of open conflict, Over and above that, our ability to enforce immigration the consequences for our democracy, economic security laws, passed by and with the authority of Parliament, and prosperity are real. To address this threat, we will is being impeded, contributing to a downward trend in introduce a counter state threats Bill, which will modernise the number of people,including foreign national offenders, our existing counter-espionage laws to reflect the modern being removed from the UK. Our Bill will enable us to threat and introduce modern legislative standards. It remove more easily those with no right to be here. Our will create new offences, tools and powers to detect, time and resources should be directed to protecting disrupt and deter hostile activity in and targeted at the and supporting those in genuine need of asylum, and United Kingdom. We will do this through reform of to reclaim control of our borders. the Official Secrets Acts 1911, 1920 and 1939, as well 471 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 472 as the Official Secrets Act 1989, and the creation of a vulnerable—and that was even before the pandemic foreign influence registration scheme.The Home Secretary began. Half of all courts in England and Wales were has published a public consultation on our proposals closed between 2010 and 2019; today there are 27,000 in this area, and the response to that consultation will fewer court sitting days than in 2016. The Crown help us shape the tools and powers at our disposal to Court backlog, now more than 57,000 cases, has increased make sure that they balance the protection of national from 39,000 before the pandemic. Rape prosecutions security with the important rights and values that we are at an all-time low. Victims are being told to wait up all enjoy in the United Kingdom. to four years to get their day in court, which of course Lastly, we will introduce two new Bills to support leads many to drop out of the system. Convictions for the voluntary sector by reducing unnecessary bureaucracy rape, robbery, theft, criminal damage and arson, drug for charities, and to unlock additional funds for good offences and fraud have fallen to a 10-year low. causes. The first is a charities Bill. Charities occupy a The Labour Party has called for the rapid extension special place in our society, and the law should both of Nightingale courts and war juries of seven jurors, protect and regulate them. The reforms that we introduce in an attempt to reduce the backlog, but the Government will remove or replace inappropriate and unnecessary have not accepted our proposals. Beyond the pandemic, burdens while safeguarding the public interest in ensuring we need to increase sitting days to clear the backlog, that charities are properly run, so that charities will provide greater support for legal aid, embrace technology have more time and more resources to spend on their where it works and restore victims’ faith in the justice charitable objectives. system. The second of these Bills is the Dormant Assets Bill. On judicial review and the courts Bill, the Government The dormant assets scheme has already released propose to introduce reforms to judicial review to, as £745 million, including £150 million for Covid relief they see it, protect the judiciary from being drawn into last year. Expanding the scheme using this Bill has the political questions. The Government are unhappy that potential to unlock a further £880 million over the their own panel has not advocated the widespread coming years. changes that they wanted, so they have announced These measures, as outlined in Her Majesty’s gracious further consultations on various aspects of judicial Speech, will set a clear direction for the future of our review to get a different answer. I have a specific country. By implementing them, we will ensure that question for the Minister. Why have the Government we are a country where swift justice is delivered to announced a further consultation on the use of ouster victims and meted out to perpetrators of crime, and clauses, when their own review explicitly said not to do that victims’ rights are respected and enshrined in the this? The Labour Party believes that judicial review is law of the land. We will ensure that our police, judges a key part of our constitution since it gives members and border officials have the powers necessary to secure of the public and organisations a legal forum to challenge our society and protect our citizens. We will ensure that the Government and public bodies when they act when they are online, as well as offline, our citizens are unlawfully. protected, and that our systems are robust and secure. In the wake of a life-altering pandemic, and a year of On the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, prolonged difficulty and disruption, we will ensure which is a carryover Bill, the Government say that this that our country has all the resources needed to build legislation will increase sentences for the most serious back better, stronger and safer. Over the coming weeks and violent offenders and ensure the timely administration and months, I look forward to discussion, discourse of justice. This is a large Bill which is poorly thought and debate, with your Lordships and with others through. It is a mess and could lead to unintended outside this House, about the many measures which it consequences; for example, we could have harsher has been my privilege to outline today. penalties for damaging a statue than for attacking a woman. In recent months and years, the Labour Party has worked constructively with the Government to, 2.34 pm for example, increase maximum sentences for front-line Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab): My Lords, I workers and increase sentences for terrorists. We would thank the Minister for introducing today’s debate. It is like a similar constructive approach to this Bill, and a privilege for me to respond and open for the Opposition. call on the Government to drop their poorly thought-out I remind the House that I sit as a magistrate in proposals and focus their legislation on tackling violence London. against women and girls. Why not use this Bill, as well I look forward to the contribution of the noble as the victims Bill, to enact a more comprehensive Baroness, Lady Fleet, who brings unparalleled experience strategy to protect women and girls? Indeed, yesterday in the arts, particularly music. I look forward to her the Labour Party published a “green paper” with a maiden speech, and I also look forward to that of the number of suggested policy proposals to end violence noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook. She has a background against women and girls, which could be adopted as a former MP and in local government, and I note through this and Home Office legislation. that she went to the same university as my daughter, Having said that, we believe there are good and which is no doubt a good omen. important parts of this Bill. Some of those have come I shall speak on the justice-related Bills and refer from Labour MPs: Stephanie Peacock on dangerous briefly to the DCMS Bills, and my noble friend driving, Holly Lynch and Chris Bryant on protecting Lord Kennedy will speak on the Home Office Bills. By the protectors, John Spellar on reform of the DBS way of background, a decade of cuts by the Conservative system and Sarah Champion on sexual abuse by people Government has left our justice system weak and in a position of trust—all this as well as reforms taken 473 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 474

[LORD PONSONBY OF SHULBREDE] failed our children. Online crimes are proliferating, from the Lammy Review.Webelieve that the Government and people’s rights online remain confused and unclear. are undermining the parts of the Bill that we support The Government’s decision to water down its legislative through unnecessarily draconian measures on free proposals and hold back on criminal sanctions for expression and the right to protest. There is no evidence company executives will continue to put children and that I have seen that these more severe measures will others at risk. do anything to reduce reoffending. The Minister said This will be a complex piece of legislation, and it that many of the protests are misinformed, and I hope will be one of the most important in recent years. that he is right; we will look forward to exploring that Although Ofcom has been named as the regulator, it is when we come to the legislation. far from clear that it will have the powers or resources I move on to the victims Bill. It has been a long wait needed to address the issues that it will face. The noble for this Bill, which was first announced in the 2016 Lord gave a good example of disinformation. We see it gracious Speech. In fact, Keir Starmer, when he first on an almost daily basis—in fact we see disinformation became an MP in 2015, introduced a Private Member’s being spread about, for example, vaccines and their Bill, co-drafted with the Victims’ Commissioner for use literally daily. That is another reason why this London, which in many ways underpins this Bill. legislation is so important. Speaking as a magistrate who sits in both adult and Keeping children safe is the most important task we youth jurisdictions in London, I rarely see a victim in have. If children were being abused and put at risk in court, and it is also relatively unusual to have a victim the same way offline as they are online, people would impact statement read out in court—although I rightly go to jail. Criminal sanction for senior executives acknowledge that this has improved in recent years. is the most direct way to get large corporations to take There are many things that we can do to improve their responsibilities seriously. the legal rights and the experience of victims, both We routinely co-operate across parties to amend inside and outside court. I look forward to working legislation in this House. Sometimes the Government constructively with the Government to enshrine victims’ say that they welcome this approach. I hope that we rights in legislation and protect those who suffer persistent can continue to co-operate with all corners of the anti-social behaviour. House to improve this legislation. I will briefly refer to the four DCMS Bills. The charities Bill will introduce a range of Law Commission recommendations. We support this Bill; we will be 2.45 pm focusing on the issues of governance and transparency Lord Paddick (LD) [V]: My Lords, I first pay tribute and on ensuring that they are not watered down to her Majesty the Queen as we enter her Platinum through the Bill. Jubilee year. Her example of a lifetime of public service With regard to the Dormant Assets Bill, the Minister at the highest level is extraordinary. I am also greatly said that he hoped to get £880 million by unlocking looking forward to the maiden speeches of the noble further assets. We support that and look forward to Baronesses, Lady Fullbrook and Lady Fleet—the first working with the Minister on it. of many valuable contributions to this House, I am sure. Next is the product security and telecommunications As we consider the home affairs, justice and culture infrastructure Bill. As the Opposition, we would be aspects of the Queen’s Speech, I remind the House of concerned about reforms to the electronic communications the comments of my noble friend Lord Newby, who code. There is a lot of detail in this Bill, and we will said last week: wait to see it before we consider our approach. “The Queen’s Speech contains many Bills of second-order The Telecommunications (Security) Bill is a carryover importance but none offering fundamental change”.—[Official Bill. While there were some amendments in the Commons, Report, 11/5/21; col. 16] we agree with its general thrust. I would go further. The Government seem to be Finally, I want to talk about the online safety Bill. continuing along the same path, following policies The Minister used some expansive language in talking where the broadsheet analysis of the right-wing tabloid about this Bill: he spoke of setting global standards to headline shows the negative unintended consequences which other countries could aspire. However, nobody of government policy. knows better than the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, One of our strongest sectors is culture, yet the only and the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, the great strength legislation in that space is the online safety Bill, which of feeling in this House on the slowness of the introduction is an inadequate reaction to protecting children and of the Bill. During the passage of the Domestic Abuse other vulnerable internet users who are being exposed Act and many other bits of legislation there has been to things online that they would be protected from in constant frustration at the fact that we are not getting the physical world. Meanwhile, there is nothing to on with this Bill. We understand that there will be encourage or facilitate our musicians and performers, pre-legislative scrutiny by both Houses, and that the who are facing the disastrous twin impacts on their intention is to enact a statutory duty of care, to be livelihood of a global pandemic and restrictions on enforced by Ofcom that would require companies to their ability to tour in the European Union. prevent the spread of illegal content and activity online. We on these Benches believe in freedom and fair The Bill is presented as a once-in-a-generation play—what some might call traditional British values. opportunity for legislation, and the Government’sthinking That includes the freedom to succeed no matter who you appears to be a continuation of the self-regulatory are or what your background or backstory is, and the approach that we have seen to date. This approach has freedom of the individual from unnecessary interference 475 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 476 by government. Yet this Conservative Government Placing further restrictions on protests might seem seek to unfairly discriminate, further marginalising reasonable in the light of the Extinction Rebellion protests minorities and the poor, further limiting challenges to last year. I know from years of experience as an advanced government overreach, and pursuing populist policies public order-trained senior police officer that it takes where the evidence clearly shows that they do not several degrees of magnitude more police officers to work. This is a Queen’s Speech of promising headlines enforce a ban on a demonstration than it does to work with unintended negative consequences. with organisers to ensure compliance with conditions. Proposals to ensure that speakers are not “no- Outside London, the majority of police leaders consulted platformed” in universities make it more likely those by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary said with radical views—ones that need to be heard, challenged that it was not a lack of legislation but a lack of police and debated—are not invited in the first place. The resources that was the limiting factor in policing protests. electoral integrity Bill is a solution in search of a What are the consequences? Following the tragic non-existent problem, and is likely to disproportionately case of Sarah Everard, the Mayor of London claimed disfranchise the poor and ethnic minorities. that women and girls were not safe on the streets of Whether through the extension of treason offences, London. The commissioner of the Met barely qualified or longer and longer prison sentences for existing that statement last week, when she said that the streets offences, not only are the Government pursuing a were policy that has proved to be ineffective in deterring “not safe for everyone all of the time.” criminals, they are adding to overcrowding in prisons, The streets of London are not safe because police making rehabilitation more difficult and radicalisation officers are increasingly being withdrawn from their easier. Sedition has its roots in the perceived unfairness beats to enforce bans on demonstrations and because of society, and draconian punishment is one of those they are targeting stop and search on black people, unfairnesses. looking for drugs. You are eight times more likely to In their immigration proposals, the Government be stopped and searched for drugs if you are black, seek to penalise legitimate asylum seekers, contrary to but no more likely than white people to be found with our international obligations on refugee resettlement. drugs. The overwhelming majority of stop searches This is not because they do not have a valid and lawful are for drugs, not for knives. No wonder the black right to seek sanctuary in the UK, but because they community still feels “overpoliced and underprotected”, arrive here by what the Government consider the as a black clergyman told the Macpherson inquiry wrong route. For the majority of those desperate into the tragic death of Stephen Lawrence. enough to put their lives at risk by crossing the channel, We all want the freedom to be able to walk our there is no alternative safe and legal route to take. streets in safety and for our women friends and family There is currently no way for those being bombed in to walk safely down any street at any time. For this to Syria by their own President, or those caught between happen, we must restore a visible policing presence, as warring factions in Yemen, to claim asylum within the National Police Chiefs’ Council said yesterday. We their own country. All UK resettlement schemes are do not want even more of our police officers sitting in currently closed, with no plans or timetable for reopening police vans, ready to enforce a ban on a peaceful protest them, nor for establishing new ones. —which is the likely consequence of the Government’s Instead of first establishing or re-establishing proposals. We do not want our police officers wasting resettlement schemes and setting targets for the number their time stopping and searching innocent people in of asylum seekers to whom the UK will give sanctuary, the vain hope of finding a small quantity of drugs. We the Government are spending millions of pounds on want violent criminals to be in fear of the police, not barbed wire and enforcement patrols on the French for women and girls to be in fear of men. coast. They are forcing legitimate asylum seekers into Fair play is not just about protecting the most the hands of people traffickers—the only people who vulnerable. It is part of what makes us proud to be British. know how to get around the increased security measures. Fair play is not just about ensuring lawful protest and One people smuggler, quoted by the Guardian, said: that black people feel welcomed and protected. It is “We thank your government for our full pockets.” about focusing scarce police resources on ensuring everyone’s freedom to walk the streets in safety.Freedom If you say to voters in the red or blue wall, “Look at and fair play are what make our country great. This these illegal immigrants crossing the channel”, you Government’s proposals are in danger of undermining encourage xenophobia. If you say, “This is the only that greatness. way these desperate people, who are not safe in their own country, can seek sanctuary here”, you encourage understanding. It is a choice, and the Conservative 2.55 pm Government, through their immigration proposals, Lord Green of Deddington (CB) [V]: My Lords, I are choosing the former. shall focus not on asylum but on immigration. I In the year of the 40th anniversary of the Brixton declare a non-financial interest as president of Migration riots, this Conservative Government choose to ignore Watch UK. the recommendations of the Scarman report and instead Noble Lords may have seen a recent article in the condone enforcing the law over maintenance of the Times by the noble Lord, Lord Hague. He referred to Queen’s peace, as we saw at the Clapham Common extraordinary events in France, where two groups of vigil. At the same time, they fail to address the unfairness, retired military officers have declared that their country discrimination and waste of scarce police resources on is disintegrating—yes, disintegrating. A subsequent disproportionate stop and search. opinion poll found that nearly three-quarters of the 477 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 478

[LORD GREEN OF DEDDINGTON] Government have met less than half the commitments. French public agreed. The main theme of the article The concordat published last year does not appear to by the noble Lord, Lord Hague—with which I entirely have been progressed. Then there was that shocking agree—was the vital importance of a shared national announcement of 500 new prison places for women, identity. His view is that its promotion in the UK has totally at odds with the strategy’s direction to reduce become a matter of urgency. the number of women in prison. What evidence is it I have three important points to add. First, this will based on, and why is the designated £150 million not not be possible unless and until immigration is sharply being spent on women’s centres and implementing the reduced. For the time being, the public believe the concordat? Government’s claims that they are taking measures for The Government have pledged to give every child this purpose. For reasons I have set out elsewhere, the the best start in life. I am a big proponent of prioritising Government will fail in this matter. the early years. But, related to today’s subject, I would Secondly, recent work has shown that high migration, say that if one of the justifications for the new prison combined with the higher birth rates in some immigrant places is to allow children to stay overnight with their communities—and a generally younger age structure—are mothers, this seems a strange way to implement the driving major changes across the UK. We now find Farmer review findings. It would be far better if those that about a third of all children born in England and mothers who do not need to be in prison were supported Wales have at least one foreign-born parent. In both in the community with their children. Again, why are primary and secondary state schools in England, around policy proposals seemingly ignoring evidence and one-third of all pupils are from an ethnic minority expertise? background. In the population of Great Britain, the Perhaps that is a good segue into the Police, Crime, share of ethnic minorities, including other Europeans, Sentencing and Courts Bill. In our scrutiny, we will need has nearly doubled to 21% in just 20 years. In more to ask whether it is supported by the evidence available recent years, more the 90% of our population increase and reflects a clear strategy and ethos that can be has been due to immigration. justified ethically.While I welcome certain proposals, such Thirdly, there can be no doubt that the whole nature as diversion and community cautions and empowering of our society is changing very rapidly and at an problem-solving courts, other aspects raise serious accelerating pace. Meanwhile, the public are instinctively concerns. For example, the use of life sentences for aware of this and are, albeit privately, very concerned. younger offenders seems to undermine any chance of A recent YouGov tracking poll found that nearly reform and redemption. The measures relating to longer 60% say that immigration has been too high during sentences seem to ignore the fact that decades of the past decade. That is about 30 million adults. lengthening sentences have done nothing to improve That is enough about numbers. I am sure that the outcomes for offenders or prevent cycles of reoffending. noble Baroness, Lady Casey, will be a valuable addition Yet the myth is perpetuated that longer sentences will to this House. She put it very well in her report of provide greater public protection. Rather than policies December 2016: being driven by evidence, it seems that they are driven “It is not racist to say that the pace of change from immigration by populist views and some headline cases. Furthermore, in recent years has been too much for some communities.” there is a woefully little focus on rehabilitation and People are understandably uncomfortable when the what happens during someone’s sentence. Thus, victims character and make-up of a town change out of all and communities, as well as offenders, are poorly served, recognition in five or 10 years. and longer sentences will only put more pressure on In calling for a sharp and sustained reduction in net our overcrowded prisons. It is also troubling that after migration, I am conscious that I shall be strongly all that has transpired in recent years, little attention is opposed by those who profit from immigration, whether paid to racial disparities in the criminal justice system. politically or economically. My answer is clear: these We did good work in this House on domestic abuse are vital issues for the future of our country. Having with the Act. Yet a number of issues remain, not least been appointed to your Lordships’ House for my work the vulnerability of migrant victims. The pilot project in this area, I think it no less than my duty to speak for must be closely watched. I look forward to the publication those who have entirely valid concerns which our of the violence against women and girls strategy, and, political system is simply not addressing. once again, I commend Australia’sframework for primary prevention. I would also welcome greater consideration 2.59 pm of the contributions of faith groups in the future VAWG strategy. The Lord Bishop of Gloucester [V]: My Lords, I too look forward to the maiden speeches of the noble I want to end by commenting on the draft online Baroness, Lady Fullbrook and Lady Fleet. In my few safety Bill. Within the commendable commitments to minutes, I shall briefly mention women in the criminal safety, there is still work to do. From my conversations justice system, the Police, Crime Sentencing and Courts with young people around physical appearance and Bill, violence against women and girls and the online self-worth, I urge the Government to encourage more safety Bill. I refer to my interests in the register, as diverse representation in advertising and to ban, or at Anglican bishop to prisons. least restrict, the use of altered images. I begin by asking: when will we see a renewed I must close. I will finish by encouraging the timetable for the 2018 female offender strategy? While Government to ensure that future legislation is based I welcome the implementation of some of the deliverables, on evidence and research and underpinned by a clear analysis by the Prison Reform Trust shows that the ethos of the flourishing of all people. 479 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 480

3.03 pm Bill and introducing new powers to tackle unauthorised Traveller camps while empowering the courts to tackle Baroness Fullbrook (Con) (Maiden Speech): My crime and ensuring a fair justice system. It is clear to Lords, it is the greatest honour and privilege to address me that this Bill contains several important measures your Lordships for the first time. I have received such a to support the delivery of those commitments. I would warm welcome and so much helpful advice from all like to mention some specific elements of the Bill. sides of this House. I thank noble Lords. In particular, I thank Black Rod and the doorkeepers, who have Experience has taught me that unauthorised answered all my questions with knowledge and cheerful encampments create significant challenges for local courtesy. I must also offer my thanks and gratitude to authorities and cause distress and misery to those who both my supporters—my noble friends Lord Trimble live nearby. Unfortunately, as I have found all too and Lord Arbuthnot. I was the council leader in the often, current law enforcement provisions are simply constituency of my noble friend Lord Arbuthnot when inadequate to deal with the scale of the disruption he was a Member of the other place. His guidance, these invasions have caused. Therefore, I support the intellect and good humour saw us take on many issues measures to create the criminal offence of residing in a together. My noble friend Lord Trimble is an inspiration vehicle on land without permission. A person guilty of of mine. this offence will be liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months or a fine not As a Glasgow-born descendant of Ulster Scots exceeding level 4 on the standard scale—currently with strong ties in both Scotland and Northern Ireland, £2,500—or both. I was seen by my company as ideal to be sent to Belfast for my first ever audit assignment—my first ever proper If we are to look after our communities, we must job—as a young woman in the 1980s. That assignment ensure that the police are provided with sufficient lasted for two years during the hunger strikes and the powers to effectively and efficiently enforce against a Troubles, and I saw the devastation brought to all range of harms caused by unauthorised camps. I people of Northern Ireland during my time there. I believe this new offence and strengthened police powers went on to spend over 20 years in senior management will also deter the setting up of unauthorised camps in roles with several international blue-chip companies, the first place. As we emerge from this tragic pandemic, working mainly in Europe and Africa and, latterly, in it is right that the Government seek to lead with a the Middle East. programme that does just that. I thank noble Lords again for their kind welcome to But back home, having never considered elective this House, and I look forward to working with all politics, I experienced first-hand the fear, misery and noble Lords for the good of the country. devastating impact that illegal encampments have on the lives of law-abiding people. But what truly astounded me is that local victims of this criminal behaviour 3.08 pm came second to the lawbreakers by a long way. This Lord Pickles (Con) [V]: My Lords, it is a great experience dramatically changed the direction of my pleasure to follow my noble friend Lady Fullbrook. life, as I put myself forward and was elected as a We have been friends for many years, since long before councillor to Hart District Council in Hampshire. her distinguished career as a councillor, council leader Within a year, I was leading the council. and Member of the other place. She led her council Before entering the other place in 2010, I was for with great style, committed to producing quality services several years the first executive director of Women2Win, at an affordable price. That commitment to public working alongside my new Whip, as well as my noble service was further evidenced by her time in the other friend Lady Jenkin of Kennington and the former place. Her full title refers to Dogmersfield, which is Prime Minister, the right honourable Theresa May. By Anglo-Saxon for a field of waterlilies—a fitting title the time I had stepped down, we had seen Conservative for a noble Baroness. women MPs triple in number, not through quotas or I would like to say a few brief words in support of women-only shortlists, which I totally oppose, but the election Bill. Many of the measures are based on through support, advice and training so that good, recommendations that I made to the Government a able women could navigate the political world—for few years back. Voter fraud is, by its very nature, covert women to contribute to their fullest. Many of those and difficult to prove. A system that relies on trust is Women2Win alumni are still serving proudly in the vulnerable to manipulation. We have ignored those other place. concerned with the administration of elections, and I was the first female to represent the constituency overseas observers, for too long. Now is the time to of South Ribble in Lancashire. But through my passion make our ballot boxes safe. for law and order I was drawn to the home affairs The most important provision is on postal votes: brief, and I was fortunate to serve on the Home Affairs banning party campaigners from handling postal votes Select Committee for five years in the other place, with altogether; stopping the practice of “harvesting” by a personal focus on policing, counterterrorism and the limiting the number of postal votes that one person trade in narcotics. Given my experience of local may hand in on behalf of another; extending the secrecy government and on the Home Affairs Select Committee, provisions that currently protect voting in polling stations I would like to take this opportunity to state my to absent voting, so that it will be an offence for anyone support for the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts to attempt to find out who a postal voter has chosen to Bill outlined in Her Majesty’s most gracious Speech. vote for; and requiring those registered for a postal This Government are committed to protecting and vote to reaffirm their identities by reapplying for a empowering our police by passing the police protection postal vote every three years. Postal voting will remain 481 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 482

[LORD PICKLES] which will either not be implementable, and therefore on demand but require renewal every three years. The ineffective, or will cause the exact opposite of the total number of people for whom someone can act as problem that they were trying to resolve. I hope we a proxy would be limited to four, regardless of their will be able to deal with this in your Lordships’ House relationship. effectively, amending those parts relating to public There seems to be opposition verging on hysteria to order. the sensible provision of voter ID, which would bring I want to concentrate, in the short time available, on the United Kingdom in line with other democracies. the issue of immigration. The Minister referred to In this respect, the Government have moved further border officials having the resources. Tell that to the than I recommended by insisting on photo ID. I am people, in the limited numbers that are currently allowed relaxed about this for two reasons. First, the number in, coming through Heathrow. Either the decision by of people possessing photo ID has increased since my the Home Secretary is because of incompetence or report. The pandemic has given that a push. Secondly, indifference or intent. It has to be one of those three, the Government have shown flexibility about what and if it is intent, then the lack of application of photo IDs are permissible. We are no longer restricted resources is causing not only major hold-ups but, in to passports and driving licences, but a much wider doing that, causing the likelihood of a greater spread selection—including various concessionary travel passes, of infection. If we cannot get that right in the months work pass cards, Ministry of Defence cards and blue ahead, how on earth are we going to deal with the badge parking permits, and even my OAP bus pass— complex piece of legislation that creates two tiers of would qualify. The result is that 98% of the voting asylum seekers, in circumstances where we claim that population has a form of ID that would qualify. That we can send people back to countries that will not figure, for ethnic minorities, goes up a further percentage have them and were not aware of their presence in the point to 99%. The Electoral Commission and the first place? Having pulled out of Europol, no longer OSCE support the measure; both organisations have having the European arrest warrant, having disengaged warned about Britain’s vulnerability to voter fraud for effectively from working on organised crime across years. Neither organisation would support voter borders and detached ourselves as an island, it ill suppression. becomes the Government to then say that we are I agree with the Labour Minister’s assessment going to find ways of returning people to countries introducing this same measure for Northern Ireland that will not have them. in 2003: “The measures will tackle electoral abuse effectively without We need a much more sophisticated approach. In disadvantaging honest voters.”—[Official Report, Commons, 10/7/01; the year leading up to the pandemic, 32,000 people col. 739.] were turned away because of the measures that were I also agree with the Labour official on the introduction taken in 2003 to put immigration and security officials of photo ID for Labour Party elections when he said, on European soil, enabling us to turn people back not “It is rare members have no form of ID.” just on Eurostar but at the border itself so they did not The Bill contains sensible measures that will make our actually reach Britain. More of that effective work, ballot boxes safe. across countries, tackling the criminals that the Minister quite rightly referred to in his speech, would be the way forward. I hope we will be able to do that in a way 3.13 pm that, in reference to the speech by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett (Lab): My Lords, I congratulate the Lord Green, does not counterweight the decision to noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, on her maiden speech welcome Hong Kong residents—27,000 to begin with, and look forward to clashing with her over the years but possibly half a million over the five years ahead—by to come.I look forward to the noble Baroness, Lady Fleet, making it impossible for other people to make their making her maiden speech today. way to this country and claim their international The right honourable Member for Haltemprice and rights. That would be a great disservice to the name of Howden, speaking on the Queen’s Speech, said that he our country as well as, by the way, to those we are was concerned about an welcoming from Hong Kong. “illiberal solution in pursuit of a non-existent problem.” In essence, there is a great deal we can do in this He was talking about the Bill to which the noble Lord, Queen’s Speech that will be extremely welcome out Lord Pickles, has just referred, but he might have been there—the victims Bill is an obvious one, and the talking about several elements of other Bills as well. online safety Bill is another. But let us also be clear As with so much, there are elements of each of the that, if we do not get the measures right, instead of the pieces of legislation that have been put forward in this bluster and frippery that substitutes for clear thinking Session of Parliament with which you can agree; other and positive action, then we will let people down. In parts lead to very grave concerns. making it possible to take practical measures, we build Very briefly,I will mention the Police,Crime,Sentencing trust. When we tell people—as I know from my time in and Courts Bill. I have got no problem dealing with Government—that we are going to do something that anarcho-syndicalists who misuse and abuse the privilege in our hearts we know is impossible, we lose their of freedom to encourage others to do things they trust. While the Government are riding high at the would never otherwise have done. I think we need, moment, in a few years’ time some of the measures however, to be absolutely sure that we do not put the that have been outlined in the Queen’s Speech will police in an impossible position, where they are making catch up with them, and people will realise that they impossible judgments based on changes in the law, have been misled. 483 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 484

3.19 pm Will she listen to the words of the noble Lord, Lord Bichard, last week that the cuts are “misguided Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]: I and ill judged”? join in congratulating the noble Baroness,Lady Fullbrook, Finally, among the most successful drivers of our on her maiden speech. world-beating creative sector are our PSBs, in particular The Government say they want to build back better— the BBC. PSBs held us together during the pandemic, an aim we share, as we do levelling up—but I have a providing news that people could trust and, in the case major concern, already mentioned by my noble friend of the BBC, essential support for home schooling. Lord Paddick. There is a deafening silence about the What the PSBs need is prominence extended to all creative and cultural sector, whose contribution to the digital TV platforms. What they do not need is an economy was £111.7 billion pre pandemic. Its huge underfunded BBC and a privatised Channel 4. This is contribution to well-being is not so easily demonstrated a world-leading sector that we have. Global Britain through figures, but we all know it to be true. It is a needs it—so support it, do not unravel it. Culture, sector whose very nature is about levelling—about the creativity and our public service broadcasters will be communality of humanity—and it is a sector for which central to getting us through this next period, both the Covid has been nothing less than catastrophic. While recovery and the renewal. the Government have been generous with their rescue packages, there is much that has left a terrible legacy. 3.23 pm Lord Hope of Craighead (CB) [V]: My Lords, there First, there is the effect on individuals. The vast are two sentences in the gracious Speech on which I majority of cultural workers are self-employed; they should like to comment. The first is: are the ones who fell through the gap and who have “Legislation will be introduced to … restore the balance of largely found themselves ineligible for the support on power between the executive, legislature and the courts.” offer. This has led to a damaging migration of people The second is: from the creative workforce. The Government’s skills “Measures will be brought forward to establish a fairer immigration agenda must recognise this and, in particular, that system.” those hardest hit have been from lower-income, diverse The first I understand to be a reference to proposals in and disabled communities. Does the Minister not agree the Government’s response to the Independent Review that addressing this is an essential part of levelling up? of Administrative Law under the chairmanship of the Secondly, live events were inevitably particularly noble Lord, Lord Faulks. The second is a reference to affected. Help is at hand—introduce a Government- the proposals in the Government’s New Plan for backed insurance scheme, as has been done for TV and Immigration. film. But the Secretary of State has provided a positively Both of these documents were issued by the Catch-22 response to this request: no support until Government in March. They were both put out for live events are possible again and it becomes clear, consultation, but the consultation period in each case which it will, that they cannot happen because of was only six weeks. Given that this period included the insurance market failure. This is too late. Live events Easter bank holiday weekend, this surely was far too involve planning; it is not a matter of switch on, switch short to allow sufficient time for all those affected or off. Does the noble Baroness not agree that an indemnity interested to comment in detail on these far-reaching insurance scheme should be put in place right now? It proposals—and, of course, the time allowed today is is not expenditure but investment. far too short, too. I do hope that time will be found for this House to debate them fully before the legislation Then there is the major problem faced over touring. is introduced. In the meantime, I will make the following Here, the restrictions of Covid have been exacerbated points. by the fact that the creative sector was dealt a no-deal First, with regard to any reform of judicial review, Brexit. Can the Minister report on progress towards it is important to note that most of these proposals achieving a bespoke visa waiver agreement with the can apply to England and Wales only. I leave it to EU and bilateral agreements with member states that others more familiar with that system than I am to do not offer cultural exemptions? comment, but Scotland has its own system of judicial Returning to skills, the acquiring of a skill begins at review, which is devolved. On the whole, Scotland has school, but successive Conservative Governments been able to align itself fairly closely with the system consistently and persistently undervalue and undermine in England, but it may not be willing to do that if the arts education, first via the EBacc, then via proposals reforms are pressed too far. That could lead to forum to scrap the performing arts BTEC, and now HE and shopping, as I was able to do under the then current the announcement that there is to be a 50% funding rules when I was still in practice to successfully challenge cut to arts subjects. “STEM not STEAM” has been the Government’s policy on aviation in Scotland. It the mantra—totally ignoring the fact that there should should also be noted that the justification for the not be a choice between arts and science: they are abolition of the so-called Cart reviews, which is symbiotic. The success of the iPhone is as much about questionable in England and Wales, is even more so on the design genius of the UK’s own Sir Jonathan Ive as the figures that relate to Scotland. the tech genius of Steve Jobs, yet this Government say Secondly, on the New Plan for Immigration, there is that arts subjects are not strategic priorities. This is the much to be concerned about. The new two-tier system same Government whose industrial strategy prizes that is proposed appears to be based on discriminating the creative industries as a “priority sector”. This is against asylum seekers depending on how they arrived baffling. Can the Minister explain the disconnect? in the UK. Those who use irregular routes of entry, 485 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 486

[LORD HOPE OF CRAIGHEAD] are being told that those who brutally murdered our involving passage through a third country, will be loved ones may never have to face the possibility of a considered to be inadmissible. This seems to run counter criminal conviction or imprisonment. After the release to the overriding objective of the reforms, which we of the report into what was termed the Ballymurphy are told is fairness and access to asylum based on need. massacre—I offer my genuine condolences to those For most asylum seekers, unauthorised entry is the only families—I received a text which included photographs means they have of entering the UK, as the noble of 30 innocent victims of IRA terrorism with these Lord, Lord Pannick, pointed out. Further, the fact words: “Where is our truth and justice?” The answer that no successor agreement to the Dublin III regulation is, they have received none. There has been no justice has been developed means that there are currently no for the families of Teebane,where 14 innocent construction safe and legal routes for unaccompanied asylum-seeking workers were blown up. Eight were murdered and the children to enter the UK from the EU—so they too rest still bear serious injuries. On that unforgettable will be discriminated against under the proposed two-tier night, I personally walked among the dead and assisted system. I find myself in full agreement with the noble the injured into the ambulances. What about justice Lord, Lord Blunkett, that a more sophisticated approach for the massacres of Kingsmill, Enniskillen, Warrenpoint is needed to deal with these problems. and so on? Yet no Sinn Féin leader has been ordered There is also an absence of detail in the plan about to any dispatch box to unreservedly apologise for their how the Government would secure a returns agreement evil deeds; nor have they offered to go and look the with the safe country through which those who have innocent families of their victims in the eye and tell used an irregular route will have passed, or how they them why their loved ones had to die, as Mary Lou will be protected when they get there. The proposal to McDonald asked our Prime Minister to do. There is remove support from those who arrived by an irregular one law for them and another for everybody else. route but cannot be returned is also very worrying. As for Ballymurphy,I note that no one has mentioned For them, that would mean destitution. Are we turning that, prior to those killings, seven British soldiers were our back on our treaty obligations once again? murdered by the IRA, when it is widely accepted that Gerry Adams was the so-called officer commanding. I 3.27 pm will read out their names lest we forget their sacrifice: Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP): British soldier George Hamilton, aged 21; Stephen My Lords, I refer to my entry in the register of Members’ McGuire, 20; Alan Buckley, 22; Eustace Hanley, 20; interests. In the gracious Speech, the Government George Lee, 22; James Jones, 18; and Brian Thomas. have promised measures to ban conversion therapy. They were all murdered in Ballymurphy by IRA gunmen. No one should seek to justify dangerous medical or I acknowledge that the pain and heartache experienced other practices that are abhorrent, coercive or humiliating right across the community is the same but I will not in the name of so-called conversion therapy,but freedom allow Irish Republicans to equate British soldiers with to carry out legitimate religious activities, such as terrorists. Neither will I allow to go unchallenged the preaching the gospel, prayer and pastoral support, vexatious claims against veteran soldiers or police officers must not be hindered or criminalised. People have a simply for the promotion of anti-British propaganda. right to seek spiritual counsel, and threatening preachers Successive Governments sent our young soldiers out who fulfil their God-given duty is a serious denial of for the purpose of protecting the community and religious freedom. Indeed, the coverage of this issue is preserving law and order, but every terrorist went out quite prejudiced against biblical Christianity. with lust for blood, deliberately aiming to leave some Preachers who faithfully expound God’s word and home in grief or a child fatherless. Justice demands that call people to repentance and salvation—will the the legacy of our past in Northern Ireland is tackled, Government’s proposed legislation limit or criminalise but to rely on some supposed truth-telling exercise is them? I note that the Education Secretary in the other totally unacceptable. Remember that Gerry Adams place has heralded the Queen’s Speech as a “milestone still denies that he was ever in the IRA. My appeal to moment” and that universities could be fined if they this House is that justice is not for the chosen few, nor fail to protect free speech on campus. But recently a for those who shout the loudest, but for all. 71 year-old pastor was forcibly pulled down from the steps on which he was standing in west London and 3.32 pm led away with his hands cuffed behind his back for Lord Dobbs (Con): My Lords, we heard a beautifully exercising his religious liberty to preach. He suffered balanced maiden speech by my noble friend some injury to his wrists and elbow.Recently, Blackpool Lady Fullbrook. I congratulate her and look forward Council banned adverts from the Lancashire Festival to more. of Hope and it took a court’s intervention to overturn The gracious Speech commits the Government to that decision. Also, the Robertson Trust terminated a addressing “racial and ethnic disparities”. Bravo! Britain contract to rent its premises to Stirling Free Church and is not an outrageously racist society. My own personal ordered it to leave. There is open hostility to the Christian life has been overwhelmingly enriched and indeed belief in marriage. It makes me wonder: are we losing transformed by the opportunity to embrace friends and our religious liberties here in the United Kingdom? I loved ones of a different colour and culture. I am not challenge this Government to reaffirm their commitment an exception; that applies to millions. I am not making to freedom of speech and religious belief. an argument to sit back and be self-satisfied but an In the gracious Speech the Government promised argument for balance, context, and for looking for the to increase sentences for the most serious and violent abundant good in society and building on it, not offenders, yet many in Northern Ireland fear that we pretending that things are worse than they are and 487 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 488 exploiting ignorance. Yet, sadly, we live in a post-truth noble Lord, Lord Faulks, will shortly speak to the world of fabricated hatreds, such as the anti-vaxxers, House and I look forward to hearing what he has to who deliberately and despicably target non-white say. The report made no suggestion, as far as I could communities, trying to weaponise Covid. Black lives identify, that there was any lack of balance that needed matter—of course they do—along with Asian and to be addressed, saying: Chinese lives, and Jewish lives. Yes, our commitment “Judicial review is considered an essential ingredient of the must include the fight against anti-Semitism, too. rule of law … an essential element of access to justice, which is a Even the vocabulary of racism has been weaponised: constitutional right” a violence of language used to intimidate and browbeat and: ordinary, sensible people into assuming that they must “On balance, little significant advantage would be obtained by be wrong. Even Tony Blair says that he no longer statutory codification, as the grounds for review are well established knows what he is allowed to say and think. Although and accessibly stated in the leading textbooks”. why do we still refer to minorities? Is that the right I have the privilege to be editor of one of them. In word? Does it imply that anyone who is not white is their response to that report in March of this year the somehow a little juvenile or less equal? Perhaps we Government said: need to look at things like that. “This does not mean we think there needs to be a radical We have been making a right modern mess of some restructuring of Judicial Review at this point. Rather, there are of this, allowing zealots to take hold of the argument aspects of the current system and the doctrine applied by the and to throttle common sense to death like some courts where it would be useful for Parliament to intervene and clarify how Judicial Review should give effect to statute.” modern-day thought police. We, the sensible, decent majority,need the confidence and sometimes the courage If there is no clear case for intervention, I strongly to remember that we stand on the shoulders of giants urge the Government to think again before intervening. such as William Wilberforce, who was wise enough to Judicial review was uniquely crafted—not by denounce those who turn a blind eye to unpleasant government and not in the first instance by Parliament, reality: but by the judiciary—to achieve and preserve the “You may choose to look the other way but you can never say proper balance of power between the different arms of again that you did not know.” government. If there is a need for fine-tuning, it is better There is only one certain way to defeat racism—by that this is left to the judiciary to remedy rather than levelling up, offering everyone equal opportunity, where legislation. In saying this, I do not refer to the procedural colour is no longer used as an insult or an excuse. We amendments recommended by the Faulks committee; must find the language, means, schools, jobs, inspiration those I would warmly welcome in the majority of cases. and innovation to bring our communities together, to extend an open hand rather than the clenched fist. We must change the dialogue. 3.40 pm Nearly 60 years ago, another giant, Martin Luther Baroness Drake (Lab) [V]: My Lords,the Government’s King, caused the world to hold its breath. Sixty years legislative programme is inseparable from a well- ago—but we all remember it, do we not?—he said: functioning courts system. In its report, COVID-19 “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in and the Courts, the Constitution Committee, on which a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” I sit, applauded the monumental effort by all those working in the courts to maintain a functioning justice It was a proposition he gave his life for: a proposition—a system during the pandemic. But recognition of those dream—that was worth dying for then, just as it is worth heroic efforts cannot obscure the scale of the challenge a new generation living by today. Levelling up, not that courts in England and Wales face. Court funding tearing apart: I embrace that prospect—I cannot wait. fell by 21% over the preceding decade, the courts modernisation programme struggled to deliver, and 3.36 pm legal aid cuts increased litigants in person. Therefore, when Covid-19 suddenly rendered courts reliant on Lord Woolf (CB) [V]: One of the proposals included remote technology,those very vulnerabilities exacerbated in the gracious Speech is the statement that legislation the devastating impact of the pandemic, and the need for will be introduced to more investment in the justice system was laid bare. “restore the balance of power between the executive, legislature and the courts”. The Lord Chief Justice described the rapid adoption The suggestion is that certain decisions of the courts of new technology during the pandemic as on applications for judicial review are responsible for “the biggest pilot project that the justice system has ever seen” this alleged lack of balance. Having been personally and said that the shift to remote hearings provided an involved in judicial review since its inception, I question opportunity to whether this alleged lack of balance of power exists. I “take the best of this new way of working to improve access to furthermore suggest that legislation, far from restoring justice”, the balance of power, could create a lack of balance but the information to support improvements to the which at present does not exist. courts service was “just not available”. The pandemic I can state this with added confidence because the shone a light on the absence of quality data. An Government set up an independent review of opportunity to capture users’ experience in that “biggest administrative law,chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, pilot project” has been lost—yet without adequate which as recently as March of this year published its data, the fundamental questions about the operation report which set out its conclusions. I note that the of our justice system remain unanswered. 489 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 490

[BARONESS DRAKE] It may be that these reversals were a factor in the The sudden move to remote hearings during the Government’s decision to set up the independent review. pandemic has been uneven in its impact. Senior courts They convened a panel, which I was invited to chair. and those dealing with commercial cases adapted relatively The terms of reference were broad; the timescale well. The lower courts, particularly those dealing with short. Having received an enormous amount of very criminal and family cases, have had a much more high-quality material, the panel was not ultimately difficult time. convinced that judicial review needed radical reform. The evidence reveals the practical challenges facing We set out our reasons, probably at too much length. ordinary people in virtual hearings, including—among While some of the panel, including me, preferred the other things—limited broadband access; phones or decision of the strong Divisional Court to that of the iPads shared between users in a household; no private Supreme Court in the prorogation case, we considered space; a dependency on pay-as-you-go phones and that it was very much a one-off and an unreliable basis expensive data packages; sensory impairments; and on which to conclude that there was something structurally limited digital literacy. Yes, they may use email, but awry with judicial review, which is a vital ingredient in electronic document management may prove impossible the rule of law. for many lay users. Remote hearings can make it However,we did accept that it was perfectly legitimate difficult for lawyers and their clients to communicate, constitutionally for the Government—any Government frustrate users if they cannot see or understand what is —to legislate to reverse particular court decisions, going on, and undermine litigants’ ability to engage. whether they were the result of judicial reviews or,indeed, On the other hand, there was clearly evidence that in any other context. Wespecifically pointed out two areas court users with special requirements have benefited which we thought were ripe for reform and would from remote proceedings. need legislation, and they both involved reversing The backlog of cases, which predated the pandemic, decisions of the Supreme Court. The Government has reached record levels, undermining access to justice have accepted our recommendations, and some of the and public confidence in the justice system. In the judges involved in the decisions have graciously criminal courts, the backlog now exceeds 530,000. The acknowledged that they did perhaps need revisiting. prison population fell by 6%; those in prison awaiting The question remains: will the Government go further? trial increased by 28%. Litigants and victims wait longer I understand why the Government are concerned for justice. Unsentenced children in custody grew in about judicial review.In his Reith lectures, Lord Sumption number. More than half of children and young people memorably described “law’s expanding empire”. But in custody and 87% of children on remand in London as we conclude in our report, it is inevitable that the were from black and minority ethnic backgrounds. relationship between the judiciary, the Executive and In family courts, the backlog exceeds 10,000. As Parliament will from time to time give rise to tensions, the public advisory group of the Family Justice Board and a degree of conflict shows that the checks and observed: balances in our constitution are working well. We “For children who remain stuck in the middle of the court must trust our judges to identify cases which are—to system, the detriment to them is immeasurable.” use the words of a Court of Appeal judge—using The Government have committed to modernising judicial review as “politics by another means”. the justice system and improving the experience of A theme which we also hope emerges from our court users, but what targets are being set and resources report is that the issue should not be characterised as allocated to reduce the backlog of cases? What is the merely a conversation between the Executive and the time limit for the collection of key data points across judiciary. We emphasise the importance of Parliament. all court services—physical and digital—needed to If legislation is clear, there is little scope for judicial assess the vulnerability of court users? review.But while Governments continue to use framework Bills and Parliament does not prevent them doing so, 3.45 pm it cannot be altogether surprising that government decisions are challenged in the courts. Lord Faulks (Non-Afl): My Lords, as a number of noble Lords have said, the gracious Speech referred to I briefly mention one other constitutional principle: the possibility of restoring balance in the constitution. free speech. The online safety Bill, as it is now called, It is well known that the constitution is not always is an exciting and unprecedented piece of legislation. easy to identify. In fact, one of my revered colleagues Our newspapers are mostly regulated—I declare an on your Lordships’ Constitution Committee—the noble interest as the chair of IPSO—and it is time that social Lord, Lord Hennessy—says that he has spent his media, where most people gather their news and other lifetime looking for it. information, should also be regulated to protect the The combination of Brexit, a minority Government, vulnerable and safeguard the integrity of the news- division in the Conservative Party on the approach to gathering process. This legislation is to be the subject Brexit and the rigidity of the Fixed-term Parliaments of pre-legislative scrutiny and no doubt will be closely Act amounted to a constitutional crisis. The purported scrutinised by both Houses. However, the Secretary of Prorogation of Parliament by the Prime Minister resulted State, Oliver Dowden, was right when he said last in a decision by the Supreme Court that he had acted week that it was vital that the Bill did not compromise unlawfully and that Parliament should return. This freedom of the press, whether in print or online. was the second occasion on which Brexit had caused I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook— the Government to lose a major constitutional case who is not now in her place—on her excellent maiden before the Supreme Court. speech. I also mention a maiden speech made last 491 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 492 week by the noble Lord, Lord Lebedev. He said that, At the same time, we must stop blaming the victims coming from Russia, he did not take freedom of and make it easier to recover losses. The banks’voluntary speech or the rule of law for granted. Neither should we. code has failed and should now be replaced with a compulsory code, under which the bank that received 3.50 pm and processed the stolen money has to refund the loss Lord Vaux of Harrowden (CB) [V]: My Lords, I will automatically.Policing of fraud is critically underfunded. talk about fraud, which is one of the great scourges of Training and resources are urgently needed so that modern life but was largely ignored in the gracious scammers actually face some risk of being caught and Speech. More than 822,000 frauds were reported to prosecuted. Action Fraud in 2019-20, totalling £2.3 billion, but Fraud has become an epidemic that is wrecking only a fraction of frauds are reported. It is estimated lives. It must be made a much more urgent priority. that the real number is around five times that. That is seven frauds every minute, and accounts for more than 3.54 pm a third of all crime in England and Wales. These numbers Lord Thomas of Gresford (LD) [V]: My Lords, the represent people losing their life savings, their pensions, noble and learned Lords, Lord Woolf and Lord Hope, their house deposits. It is not just about money; being the quoted the Government’s expressed desire to victim of a scam is deeply traumatic and wrecks lives. “restore the balance … between the executive, legislature and the Why has fraud become so commonplace? There are courts.” two reasons: it is easy and it is low risk. Why is fraud It is also a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, easy? It is because so many businesses profit from with whom I largely agree on this topic. It is misleading facilitating it and have little or no incentive to stop it. I to talk in terms of balance rather than of function. In will give a few examples. Search engines and social our constitution, the legislature makes the laws, the media platforms take money to advertise fake pension courts interpret and apply them in specific situations and investment sites, fake online shopping sites, fake and, in theory,the Government obey them. The problem holiday letting sites and so on. To add insult to injury, arises when the Government do not wish to obey the they then make more money from the regulators. The laws that Parliament or the common law have created FCA apparently paid £600,000 last year to post warnings and seek to reject courts’ interpretation of them. on Google. It is not a question of balance. In a judicial review, Web-hosting platforms are paid to host the scam the scales of justice do not weigh the interests of the websites. Telecom providers are paid for the calls and Executive against the strictures of the law. The concept texts that plague us, and make things worse by failing to of the scales of justice in a court setting is that, where prevent false caller IDs. The banks are also facilitating an individual or organisation seeks judicial review of a frauds. All that stolen money has to be received government decision, the judge’s duty is to apply the somewhere, and most is processed through UK bank law without favour to either side. If the Government’s accounts. Instant payments allow the stolen money to purpose in introducing a judicial review Bill is to carry be whisked away through multiple accounts and overseas out the recommendations of the committee of the before the victim has even realised that they are a noble Lord, Lord Faulks, it will be unexceptional. No victim. doubt we can argue about the details of the two main Why is fraud low risk? The statistics speak for areas he recommends. If, on the other hand, the themselves: fewer than one in 13 reported frauds is Government pursue the aims outlined in the Lord actually investigated and less than 4% lead to a Chancellor’sstatement setting out the further consultation prosecution. Anyone who has dealt with the laughably to make areas of policy non-judiciable, that is an named Action Fraud will understand why that is. entirely different matter. The noble Lord’s committee I welcome the fact that the Government have at last would not support it, as he has made abundantly clear. agreed that the online safety Bill will cover user-generated Ouster clauses are not effective because the courts frauds, but they have chosen—it is a choice—to exclude assume that Parliament does not intend to give licence most types of economic crime from the Bill, including to a Government or to a Minister to break the law. frauds arising from fake adverts. It is perverse that the Mr Brandon Lewis, the Secretary of State for Northern tech companies will be responsible for scammers’ social Ireland, attempted to introduce clauses that expressly media posts but not for the adverts they are actually involved the Government in illegality by breaking the paid to publish. Northern Ireland protocol. This episode demonstrated The Government say that they will publish a fraud that Parliament will not stand for it. The attempt was action plan, but only after the 2021 spending review, defeated overwhelmingly by all parties, including former and that DCMS will consult on online advertising, but Prime Minister Theresa May and responsible and only starting later this year. This is not good enough. experienced Members on the Government Benches in Every day that passes without action means more than this House. 10,000 more frauds, more than £6 million more stolen, I suppose it would be possible for the Government and more people losing their life savings and having their to introduce into a Bill or statutory instrument a lives wrecked. We must push the risk of fraud back on clause that reads, “On questions of policy, a Minister to those facilitating it. The big tech companies, telecoms can do what he likes”—or,to put it rather more formally, companies and the banks, with all their resources and “A decision by a Minister under this Act shall not be know-how, could easily find ways to make life harder set aside or voided by reason of illegality”. I very for the fraudsters, but they have proved that they will much doubt whether such a clause in its naked simplicity not do it voluntarily, so the time has come to create a would get past a competent Attorney-General, never real financial stick to encourage them. mind Parliament itself. 493 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 494

[LORD THOMAS OF GRESFORD] paperwork was swept away, and a new and welcome The Government can huff and puff when they lose freedom ruled for creative artists. Touring is the lifeblood a case, but that does not change the reality that they for creative artists—musicians in particular—and it function within the rule of law as interpreted by the seems to be purely a question of whether the will exists courts. As for the courts themselves, their decision in a to create a mutually beneficial arrangement. Particularly particular case may have implications for the policy in light of the welcome news that quarantine requirements that the Executive wish to implement, but it is well may imminently be waived for fully vaccinated UK understood that the system of judicial review does not citizens going to the EU, I join others in urging Ministers permit a judge to substitute his own views or his own please to sort this problem out with the utmost urgency. decision on the issue. All he or she can do is quash the Finally, I strongly support the tribute to Her Majesty decision that has been made and invite the decision-maker by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick. For some time, to think again. As for ousting the jurisdiction of the I was honoured to be Treasurer of Her Majesty’s court, you can sum it up in seven words: “If it is Household, for which she kindly gave me four-and-a-half illegal, it is justiciable.” yards of British cloth, which my wife had made into this suit that I now proudly wear for the debate on the 3.58 pm gracious Speech. Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con): My Lords, I draw 4.03 pm attention to my entry in the register, in particular as a partner in the international commercial law firm DAC Baroness Jay of Paddington (Lab) [V]: My Lords, I Beachcroft, and as chairman of its financial services congratulate the noble Lord on his special suit and the division. two noble Baronesses who will make their maiden I warmly welcome the Queen’s Speech and, in speeches. particular, the atmosphere of renewed positivity and This past year has certainly thrown up a whole optimism in which our debate is taking place. Let us range of important issues for both Parliament and hope it does indeed prove to be the solid foundation government to confront. I am privileged to be a member for our nation building back better as we bounce back of your Lordships’ Select Committee looking at life from the Covid-19 pandemic. A mass of criminal justice after Covid and some of the long-term problems that reform is adumbrated in the Speech, and I think we all we have to deal with, not necessarily through legislation. confidently foresee some lively debates on matters Noble Lords will be aware of our recently published including sentencing, online safety and immigration. report on the pandemic and the internet, which concluded In contrast, the Speech is understandably quite that internet use over the past year had accelerated by light on civil justice issues. We are, however, witnessing a decade the changes in that world and exposed alarming the creation of numerous obligations and rights. We inequalities in the digital society. It also exposed a lot must therefore be mindful of the need to ensure that of the problems with online life that have already been those do not spawn mass litigation in the civil justice referred to in this debate. sphere. The compensation culture—blame and claim— One perhaps less immediately obvious topic on which insidiously undermines civility within our society and the Select Committee has received powerful written is not in any sense a victimless activity. Someone has evidence but has not discussed concerns the sensitive to pay for every settlement, not just the compensation questions about how we care for the dying and our that goes to the complainant but the full legal costs. It choices at the end of life. The tragedy of the daily death is an all-too-common characteristic of claims inspired tolls reported on the evening news and the extraordinarily by claims farmers that the lawyers earn more from sad stories about bereavement in lockdown seem to have cases than the claimants do. Might the Government crystallisedandstimulatedanewinterest—adetermination therefore issue a call for clarity on the use of alternative that we must make changes for the better. These issues dispute resolution to help avoid legal costs exceeding bring together the legal, ethical and medical dilemmas damages, which is the catnip for claims farmer activity that we in this House have often debated. and which we have all been trying to avoid? However,I am convinced that there is now an appetite I do not intend to focus unduly upon the recent for a more open, evidence-based approach. Somehow, indication on restricting the small claims limit rise for the pandemic has enabled us to talk about death in a employer’s liability and public liability injury claims to waythat reduces superstition and taboos.The organisation just £1,500. We should entirely support restraint in Compassion in Dying reports that calls to its information employer’s liability claims where it is important that helpline have increased by almost 50% in the past year the rights of employees are protected. I would, however, and that the number of people making so-called living urge everyone to be mindful of the possible unintended wills—that is, refusing treatment in certain circumstances consequences of the injury limit for public liability —has soared by 160%. claims, where claims farmers forage for rich pickings—no Weare all, of course,acutely aware that the coronavirus doubt all the more so, post whiplash reform. has put unprecedented burdens on our healthcare We are also discussing cultural matters and it is a professionals and their resources. At the beginning of matter of considerable regret for many of us that there the pandemic, there were disturbing stories about was no mention in the Queen’s Speech of reciprocal, inappropriate rationing of intensive care and “do not visa-free travel and work for UK and EU performers resuscitate” decisions being made without proper and their crews. It was a great achievement—in no consultation. That was troubling but it prompted open small part UK led—when the old era of complicated and honest discussion which has, in turn, produced ledgers, carnets and other expensive and time-consuming useful developments led by the Care Quality Commission. 495 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 496

It reported earlier this year and there is now, for testing capacity was radically expanded in 2020, there example, a new ministerial oversight group established must surely now be scope to permit UK citizens, say, to improve the use of “do not resuscitate” decisions. one set of NHS tests per year for travelling purposes. In our new post-pandemic world, we must also respect The overall effect of the present arrangement is that those people who want neither resuscitation nor the UK loses its most lucrative domestic travellers to intervention but whose preferred choice at the end of overseas holidays and gets hardly any inbound tourists life may be a medically assisted death—still, of course, to make up for them. The potential inbound tourism illegal here. Over the past year, the situation in which revenue from green-list countries—the only countries those who want to exercise that choice are forced to whose residents can credibly visit the UK—amounts travel to Switzerland has become even more intolerable. to just 3% of the UK’s normal inbound tourism revenue. Outsourcing this emotionally and practically difficult The Government could boost that figure and support option to another country has always been regrettable the half a million—or more—people in the UK whose and unethical. Today, Covid restrictions have made it jobs directly rely on inbound tourism revenue. They almost impossible. We must now look again at our could allow fully vaccinated people from the UK’s main own law and its cruel blanket ban, which has led to an tourism markets, such as the USA, to come to the UK increasing number of reports of desperate suicides by without having to quarantine, and they could also dying people. provide targeted support for businesses reliant on It is therefore extremely helpful that the Health inbound tourism to protect jobs in this sector. Secretary has now asked the ONS to look at those The industry also needs the Chancellor’s £1.6 billion reports and examine the statistics on suicide among business rate support, promised in March for the most the terminally ill. Mr Hancock has committed himself severely impacted businesses that have not been eligible to ensuring that, in general, good factual evidence is for other rates relief. Coach operators, tour operators available for future parliamentary debate on assisted and English language schools are desperate for this dying. In this House, we will have that opportunity support, but there is still no word from the Government when the Private Member’s Bill of the noble Baroness, on which businesses are eligible or how they can apply. Lady Meacher, on this subject is introduced. She is The Queen’s Speech is always the product of speaking almost next in this debate and I look forward negotiations within government, with Ministers and to her contribution and, most importantly, to her Bill. departments vying for a slot, but without a Cabinet Noble Lords will remember that five years ago, we Minister for tourism this sector misses out time and supported the proposal of my noble and learned friend again. This year, of all years, surely the Queen’s Speech Lord Falconer on assisted dying and I very much hope should have included a tourism Bill. The fact that that we will support this similar Bill. The pandemic there was no mention whatever of tourism is a bitter experience has created the circumstances for safe, disappointment but, sadly, not a surprise. compassionate legislation to give dying people the right to choose the death they want for themselves. 4.12 pm 4.08 pm Baroness Manningham-Buller (CB) [V]: My Lords, I Baroness Doocey (LD) [V]: My Lords, tourism has swapped my slot with my noble friend Lady Meacher, been the sector most affected by Covid-19 and it will at her request. be the last industry to reopen. One in 10 jobs depends In the gracious Speech, Her Majesty the Queen on it, yet there was no mention of tourism in the referred to Queen’s Speech or the accompanying 163-page policy “measures to increase the safety and security of … citizens”. briefing, and there were no Bills that directly support I pick for comment from that broad aspiration the the UK’s tourism industry. It has been taken for proposed legislation to make it easier to counter threats granted as a national cash cow for years but government to this country from other states: the counter-state policy is now slaughtering the UK’s £31 billion inbound threats Bill, to which the Minister referred at the tourism sector because the new traffic light system beginning of this debate. We do not yet have a Bill, favours people leaving the UK to holiday abroad while although we can get a reasonable sense of it from the doing nothing to encourage tourists to come here. Home Office consultation. The Minister described With many people working from home and businesses the aims of the legislation and—for once, despite the allowing more flexible working, UK residents will be concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, that able to travel to amber countries and then self-isolate Cross-Benchers always disagree with the Government—I on their return while working from home. In contrast, wish to reinforce what the Minister said in his opening people in amber countries who want to travel to the remarks: modern tools and powers are needed to detect, UK for a holiday will have to remain in their hotel for prevent and respond to threats from states whose aim 10 days, meaning that there is no point at all in is to undermine the safety and interests of the UK. coming. In thinking about what I wanted to say at this very The Government’s present position also risks making preliminary stage, I reflected that in my dozen or so overseas travel the preserve of the wealthy. The cost of years in your Lordships’ House I have rarely spoken a Covid test for people travelling even to a green-list about hostile state activity, despite many years of country is £150 per person, vastly increasing the cost experience of trying to counter it, mainly in the Cold of a family holiday.Travel to an amber country involves War. The fault is mine; my excuse is that successive £450-worth of tests per person. Meanwhile, there is a Governments have not had the appetite to tackle the baffling range of potential test providers all making a problem, rather preferring to rely on creaky legislation pretty penny from the process. Given that the UK’s from the last century designed to deal with German 497 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 498

[BARONESS MANNINGHAM-BULLER] scrutiny of the Bill, we must ensure that this exemption espionage in the run-up to the First World War and is both watertight and practical so that news publishers Nazi espionage in the run-up to the Second World War. are not subject to any form of statutory control, and The Government moved to fill some of the legislative that there is no scope for the platforms to censor gap in the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security legitimate content. We have the opportunity with this Act 2019, but then recognised that more was needed. I legislation to lead the world in ensuring proper regulation strongly welcome their intention to legislate, and I of news content on the internet, and to show how that look forward to seeing what the Bill says. can be reconciled with protecting free speech and freedom Why do we need it, and what are we talking about of expression. It is an opportunity we should seize. in 2021? I start with what we are not talking about. As Although the online safety legislation will go some a young intelligence officer, I remember interviewing a way to help support independent, trusted journalism, Russian intelligence officer who was distressed to discover the measures to be contained in the health and care that the papers in his carefully chosen dead letter Bill relating to a complete online ban on advertising of box—a hollowed-out tree in which his agent was going HFSS products regrettably point in the other direction, to stow top-secret documents—had been eaten by and I shall not support them. Of course obesity is a squirrels. That is not what we are talking about any real problem, but there really is no credible evidence more; we are talking about activity at scale—industrial, that this ban will be an effective solution. In this House, economic and academic espionage, and cyberattacks we are always guided by evidence; let us see and to steal our secrets, distort data, spread lies, amplify scrutinise it. disinformation, and, as I hope is of particular concern to this House, to interfere with and undermine democratic Advertising bans are objectionable because of the process. interference with freedom of expression, but they are even more objectionable where no compelling case can I look forward to the scrutiny of this overdue be made for them. They appease lobby groups but legislation. I do not anticipate that it will have an easy rarely have real impact. In effect, the Government’s passage, as it is a complex subject, but we need a law case is that a ban might reduce calorie consumption that is balanced and proportionate, recognising the among children by one-third of a Smartie each day—fine. public interest while allowing us to better defend ourselves But at the same time, the TV ban will take around against covert attacks, of which the scale and cost of £200 million out of the UK TV market each year, as the damage are not well understood. well as revenue from UK publishers, at a time when broadcasters face huge challenges from the market 4.16 pm disruption caused by other platforms. I declare my interest as vice-chairman of the ITV APPG. Lord Black of Brentwood (Con) [V]: My Lords, I am deeply saddened that I am not following on from my This will directly impact employment in the creative noble friend Lady Fleet, whose maiden speech we were industries when we should be investing in them as part much looking forward to. That she has been unable to of our drive towards global Britain. There is no evidence speak is clearly the result of an administrative glitch that this measure will help tackle obesity, but it will and, for my part, I think the treatment of a new gravely damage the media. colleague in this way is unforgivable. I wish to say a We have not yet seen the detail of the Bill, but I urge word or two about the impact of the measures outlined the Government to think again about how they approach in the gracious Speech on the media and, in doing so, this issue, in particular to see whether there is a declare my interests as deputy chairman of the Telegraph self-regulatory and more proportionate response in Media Group, and note my other interests as set out in place of the blunderbuss of statute brought forward the register. with no evidence. One thing the pandemic has certainly taught us is Finally, I mention one thing not in the gracious the need for reliable, verifiable news from trusted sources Speech: legislation to give the Digital Markets Unit of information. But while the need for trusted journalism statutory powers to underpin a code of conduct to has never been greater, the threats to it are becoming ensure fair trading, open choices, trust and transparency existential as the revenues which fund it evaporate. More in digital advertising and, above all, to compel tech than 260 local newspapers have disappeared since companies to pay for the content they carry. 2005 and, in the past year alone, there have been more than 2,000 job cuts across the media in the UK. The Reform is long overdue. It is now more than two situation is grave, particularly for the local and regional years since both the Cairncross Review and the Treasury’s press, which are now in real peril. Furman review recommended radical change to ensure How do the measures outlined in the gracious the future of quality journalism, and nearly a year Speech help? The online safety Bill is welcome. It since the CMA’s excellent report on the issue was starts a journey of levelling up, if you will forgive me published. They all reached the same conclusion: change adapting the phrase; that is, levelling up the essential must come, and soon, if we are to save the free press. duties and responsibilities of the platforms to those to There has been progress, including the establishment which traditional publishers have long been subject, of the Digital Markets Unit within the CMA, but it is both in terms of legislation and regulation. The draft not enough. Bill includes a robust and comprehensive exemption We need a competition Bill as soon as possible to for news publishers from its framework of statutory give the DMU the statutory powers it needs to tackle regulation, as my noble friend Lord Wolfson said the platforms. It is an opportunity for the UK to show earlier. That is absolutely right. During pre-legislative it is leading the world in dealing with a problem— 499 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 500

Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con): I remind my noble The courts are out of sync with other parts of the friend of the four-minute advisory speaking time. justice system. The CPS continues to use the national register,and the new flagship Police Approved Interpreter Lord Black of Brentwood (Con) [V]: My Lords, the and Translator scheme has blazed a trail for high UK’s media is in jeopardy. Time is not on our side. Let standards. It respects all parties and, combined with us make sure that the legislation we pass this Session the register, could be a really effective model for the helps and does not hinder. courts too. We could get all this right very easily. Part 12 of the 4.22 pm Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill provides for Baroness Coussins (CB): My Lords, in declaring my British Sign Language interpreters to assist jurors. I interest as vice-president of the Chartered Institute of suggest just adding a new, simple clause to provide for Linguists, I highlight an opportunity to improve the spoken-word interpreters to be appointed only from criminal justice system for the benefit of victims and the national register in order to raise standards, improve their families, witnesses, defendants, court officials justice and save public money. It is ironic that one and jurors that would enhance the quality of justice clause in the Bill creates a new offence for a BSL and save public money. I hope that impressive list of interpreter intentionally or otherwise to influence the benefits has grabbed the attention of the noble Lord, jury. I contend that to continue to allow incompetent, Lord Wolfson. unqualified spoken-word interpreters in our courts is The issue is the provision of interpreters in our courts itself, by default, a serious way of influencing the and tribunals. The opportunity is to insert a simple outcome of proceedings in the most negative way amendment to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts possible. I hope the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, even Bill. In a nutshell, the problem is that the chaotic though he will not reply to this debate, will indicate system used by the MoJ and the Courts & Tribunals that he is willing to meet me to discuss my proposal. Service allows far too many cases of unqualified or underqualified, inexperienced pseudo-interpreters to 4.26 pm do such a bad job that, quite apart from damaging the reputation of properly qualified linguists, it can cause Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab) [V]: My Lords, mayhem in the courts, resulting in miscarriages of justice, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, on adjourned hearings, defendants remaining in custody and her maiden speech and very much regret that we have an undermining of trust in an important public service. not been able to hear from the noble Baroness, Lady Fleet. I hope she will be able to address the House before The notorious case of Iqbal Begum led to the too long. establishment of the National Register of Public Service Interpreters in the early 1990s. The Court of Appeal Culture is listed as one of today’s subjects for had quashed a conviction for murder against a woman debate, but the gracious Speech makes no reference to when it was realised that the interpreter at her original it. Of course, there is important legislation—notably trial had not known the difference between murder the online safety Bill—coming from the department and manslaughter and, though fluent in English and with “Culture” in its title, but culture in the wider sense, Gujarati, could not speak Punjabi, the language of the including the arts, once again has no place in the accused. In another case the defendant was accused of Government’s programme. perverting the course of justice, which the so-called I return to funding for higher education and how it interpreter managed to translate as, “You are accused will affect the future of our hugely successful creative of being a pervert”. In another, the interpreter’s English industries. In doing so, I remind the House of my was so poor that he could not distinguish between a interest as a deputy chair of the Royal Shakespeare marital partner and a business partner, which led to Company and a trustee of the Artis Foundation. the judge assuming the defendant was being evasive. The Government propose that funding to higher The national register is an independent, non-profit education courses in the C1 price group, including music, organisation whose purpose is to safeguard and regulate dance, drama and other performing arts, art and design the quality and professionalism of interpreters. and media studies, should be significantly reduced Registration depends on stringent criteria for training, because they are not among the Government’s “strategic qualifications and experience. There is a code of priorities”. This proposal is wrong-headed in so many professional conduct and a disciplinary procedure ways that it is hard to know where to begin. The fact uninfluenced by any political or commercial interest. that the proposed reduction per student is not huge in In 2011, however, the MoJ outsourced interpreting cash terms is irrelevant. The wrong-headedness, so ably to reduce costs. Reduced pay and conditions for identified last week by the noble Lord, Lord Bichard, interpreters resulted in an exodus of the properly resides in the attitude behind the decision. If followed qualified ones and an influx of the unqualified. The through, this proposal will reinforce the message that MoJ list is not a patch on the national register. You schools, parents and students themselves are already can get on to this list just by having a GCSE pass or a getting, because of the narrowing of the national low-level two-week foundation course, or just by being curriculum, that these subjects are of less value, in bilingual, even if you have never set foot in a court every sense, than others. before. The list is outsourced to a private company The Government supported the recent decision of and, despite the MoJ’s claim that compliance with the Russell group of universities to abandon its facilitating targets has been high, the increase in aborted hearings subjects list, which by excluding arts subjects had such and general dissatisfaction among lawyers and clients a damaging impact on their status. Now the Government alike tell a different story. seem to be facing in the other direction. Why? 501 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 502

[BARONESS MCINTOSH OF HUDNALL] data governance, increasing public trust in the sharing Furthermore, the proposal is likely to widen existing and use of data and the work started by the Open inequalities in higher education, decreasing participation Data Institute in creating trustworthy mechanisms rates among students with disabilities and from such as data institutions and trusts. lower socioeconomic groups. The Office for Students Another priority is consultation document makes that clear. How can it “Keeping the UK safe and secure online”. be in line with the Government’s levelling-up agenda to cut funding to the courses most successful in attracting Amen to that, and to the secure-by-design consumer such students? protection measures now promised to meet the challenges of internet security, but the draft online safety Bill now Finally,the proposal is incomprehensible when viewed before us is not yet fit for purpose. Protection should in the light of what the Government have done for the be risk-based, not platform-based. In particular, there cultural sector over the past year, which has been is the exclusion of commercial pornography where there generous and life-saving. More than £1.5 billion has is no user-generated content and the societal harms been invested in supporting arts organisations through caused by, for instance, fake news—misinformation—so the Culture Recovery Fund, and yet more through the clearly described in the report of the Democracy and Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme. Despite some Digital Technologies Select Committee of the noble problems, which have been mentioned already, such as Lord, Lord Puttnam. Educational and news platforms the continuing impasse over the provision of cancellation are excluded in total. In addition, there are no group insurance for live events, these interventions were actions, no focus on the issues surrounding anonymity— enlightened and I gladly acknowledge their significance, ″know your user”—no reference to economic harms, but what is the point of spending all that money on no focus on enhanced PSHE or the promised media protecting our cultural infrastructure while simultaneously literacy strategy, and little clarity on the issue of the signalling that the skills needed to create the work that algorithmic pushing of content. Where is the commitment they present, for which the UK is celebrated throughout to working with the IWF? the world, are not worth acquiring? Who do the Government think will be leading these organisations On the question of and keeping them alive in future if not students from “Building a tech-savvy nation”. the very programmes that the Government are now I welcome a greater focus on FE, the jobs and skills seeking to sideline through underfunding? This is bad White Paper and the new Bill, but the pace, scale and politics, bad economics and, above all, bad education. ambition of government action does not match the I hope the Minister will encourage her colleagues at challenge facing many people working in the UK. I the Department for Education to think again. welcome the work of the local digital skills partnerships, but they are massively underresourced. Broader digital 4.31 pm literacy is crucial, as the AI road map pointed out. Lord Clement-Jones (LD): My Lords, I join in With regard to congratulating the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, “Fuelling a new era of startups and scaleups” on her maiden speech. and It has been clear during the pandemic that we are “Unleashing the transformational power of tech and AI”, increasingly dependent on digital technology and online solutions, but what is the reality in the digital economy catapults should become more effective institutions as of the Government’s levelling-up agenda? How are we a critical part of our innovation strategy. I welcome mitigating digital online harms and digital exclusion? the commitment to producing a national AI strategy When we look at the risks and opportunities in adopting later this year, but it should contain key elements, such new technology, are we adopting the right values? The as the development of approaches to AI audit, compliance, DDCMS Secretary of State, Oliver Dowden, has recently and risk and impact assessment, and proposals to set out 10 tech priorities. Some of them are reflected in regulate high-risk applications such as live facial the Queen’s Speech but many do not yet measure up. recognition and deepfakes. I welcome the priority to Two of them are “Leading the global conversation on tech” “Rolling out world-class digital infrastructure nationwide” and the recent G7 digital communique, but we need to and go beyond principles in establishing international AI “Levelling up digital prosperity across the UK”. governance standards and solutions and agree on a We were originally promised spending of £5 billion by digital services tax. 2025, yet only a fraction of this, £1.2 billion, will have In closing, there are a number of major omissions been spent by then. Digital exclusion and data poverty in the Queen’s Speech. Where is the commitment to set have become acute during the pandemic. It is estimated up a new digital markets unit, to develop our own that 1.8 million children have not had adequate digital sovereign data capability and to tackle the gig economy access. It is not just about broadband being available; in the many services run through digital applications? it is about it being affordable, and about devices being This last should be a major priority, and it is a gaping available. hole in the Queen’s Speech. “Unlocking the power of data” is another priority. Yes to this, and to 4.35 pm “Championing free and fair digital trade”, so I welcome today’s response to the national data Baroness Bull (CB): My Lords, I join others in strategy and the national data strategy forum, but this congratulating the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, must go hand in hand with a strong commitment to on her maiden speech. 503 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 504

It is a privilege to contribute to this debate, yet once legal but harmful content, but is not elucidated. I foresee again we are obliged to come at the subject of culture endless court time devoted to determining whether my somewhat obliquely, focusing on those areas where it sensibilities are more ordinary than the next person’s. ought to be but is not. Much is made in this gracious The online safety Bill has been a long time coming Speech, as in the last, about the UK becoming a global and, as our lives have moved increasingly online, the science superpower, a world-leading R&D environment need for a regime that balances freedom of expression with innovation central to tackling major challenges. with the protection of rights has become more acute. I We are told that the Advanced Research & Invention look forward to working together across the House to Agency will support the creation of ground-breaking ensure that the Bill effectively meets those twin aims. technology with the potential to produce transformational benefits to our economy and society. 4.39 pm However, the central role of the arts, humanities and creative industries in delivering that vision is ignored. Lord Moynihan (Con): My Lords, this debate includes We know that research in these disciplines is not the work of the DCMS and thus enables us to focus currently eligible for R&D tax relief, and I urge the on sport, recreation and an active lifestyle. I declare Government to remedy that in their planned diversification my interests as set out in the register. of R&D funding. A unified definition of R&D that I have constructed a 10-point plan to focus attention valued arts, humanities and social science alongside on what I hope will be cross-party support for action the scientific and technical would not only support to promote these objectives. First is the formation of a legitimate research in the creative industries but ensure new office for health promotion, mandated to drive that technological solutions were informed by cultural improvement in the nation’s health, tackle obesity and and behavioural insights, making adoption more likely, improve mental health—not least that of the 1.5 million and it would encourage knowledge exchange across children predicted by the Royal College of Psychiatrists disciplines, where innovation is most likely to occur. to need new or additional mental health support as a result of the pandemic. There is a major opportunity In this context, the proposed cuts to funding for for a new start, leading to policy formulation for an arts courses make no sense. Not only would they impact active lifestyle at the heart of government. talent pipelines and deepen inequalities in the creative sector, they would impact on the wider innovation Second is an education recovery plan, ensuring that ecosystem, because other industrial sectors rely on no child is left behind as a result of the education and a flow of creative workers to imagine, design and extracurricular activities that they may have missed communicate new concepts. Cutting arts subjects at a out on during lockdown. This is against a background time when we are nailing our colours to the mast of where almost 70% of parents have said that their innovation is,sadly,further evidence that this Government children were less active during lockdown—and 10% have consider arts education as “nice to have” and fail to said that their children had been completely inactive. understand the role of arts graduates in the innovation The creeping scholarisation of childhood continues to ecosystem. The Secretary of State for Education made erode free play at school and home in favour of that clear last week when he wrote: academic, sporting and cultural activities. “The record number of people taking up science and engineering Third is laws to modernise the planning system, demonstrates that many are already starting to pivot away from which plays a crucial role in providing access to high- dead-end courses that leave young people with nothing but debt.” quality facilities so that everyone can play sport and What is in the Speech is the long-awaited online be physically active. In this Bill, there is the opportunity safety Bill. A key concern will be to ensure that the Bill to put that mantra into practice. effectively balances freedom of expression with protection Fourth is legislation to set binding environmental for users’ rights online. In that regard, I will be interested targets.Despite its ability to entertain and promote health, to understand what is meant by a new protection for sport can also degrade the environment. To remedy this, “content of democratic importance”. we can turn sport and recreation into a positive force for environmental change by adopting sustainable practices. The Explanatory Notes say this refers to government policies and political parties, but it raises questions Fifthly, the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts about how that would impact the freedom of individuals Bill is an important measure for all of us who have to initiate online debate or campaign on topics that long campaigned for an extension in the position of are not “live political issues”—a quote from the trust provisions to capture those who lead activities in Government’s press release—but, rather, issues that sporting and religious settings. The noble Baroness, voters believe current policies overlook. Lady Grey-Thompson, is not only an outstanding sportsperson but a true campaigner who achieved this I am equally curious about the definition of “harmful change. Now, at last, the loophole in the law that content” as that which will have, or indirectly have, meant that some adults who held a position of power “a significant adverse physical or psychological impact on an over a young person, including sports coaches, could adult of ordinary sensibilities.” abuse that power will be remedied. The Bill adds that this ordinary adult should be assumed Sixthly, during Covid, there have been a range of to have any combination of characteristics, but does welcome DCMS funding measures to support sports not say if they are the protected characteristics of the and clubs, including a £300 million sports recovery Equality Act 2010. If they are, how will the Bill protect package to support major spectator sports in England. from harms related to body image, weight or appearance, We will have the opportunity to assess how effective all given that those characteristics are not covered by that these measures that are focused on sport have been Act? This threshold is central to the Bill’s powers over and whether they have achieved their stated objectives. 505 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 506

[LORD MOYNIHAN] Much of the proposed legislation is designed to fight Seventhly,the online safety Bill will establish a welcome political proxy wars,rather than trying to improve people’s duty of care to ensure the safety of users online. Sport lives and create a better future, which is probably what has led the way. The recent boycott of social media by the Government’s job is. For example, the electoral English football, supported by other sports and integrity Bill is an excuse to make it harder for people— international governing bodies of sport, sends a clear particular people, not just any old people—to vote, signal that social media companies must be held to while giving the Conservative Party more power in an account for protecting their users. attempt to extend the life of this Government, possibly Eighthly, Tracey Crouch MP is one of the very for decades. brightest and most knowledgeable Sports Ministers of The Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill seeks her generation. Her fan-led review of football comes to put financial penalties on universities and student on the back of the Prime Minister’s commitment that unions for not wanting to listen to speakers with government would do whatever it takes to tackle the fundamentally stupid ideas. I do not understand it, problem of sports governance. There will be forensic and it gets a bit confusing when the Government, consideration of ownership models,governance,financing apparently so concerned about free speech, are also and ensuring that supporters play an integral part in bringing in a Bill designed to criminalise and ban free the running of football, combined with all-party calls speech and the right to protest—because protest is free for a football regulator. speech. As such, we are being asked to crack down on Ninthly, the levelling-up White Paper will, I hope, free speech in one Bill but to force people to listen to lead to legislation to provide the opportunity for access speakers whom they fundamentally disagree with in to modern, built-for-purpose sports and recreation another. It will be very interesting to see, over time, facilities, which should be central to this goal—for, as just how this plays out in court and how these two Danny Kruger MP said in his maiden speech, social pieces of legislation interact. infrastructure should be treated as seriously as economic Next up on the nasty list are the Government’s infrastructure. plans to make it harder for people to claim asylum and Tenthly, the Professional Qualifications Bill offers refuge, which are horrendous and plain cruel at a time backing to ensure that regulators share information of such global instability—much of which we have caused with counterparts to support them, as professionals —especially because global migration will increase. move between jurisdictions—a key concern of sports We will carry on trashing the planet and will make coaches, British mountaineers and ski instructors looking huge areas uninhabitable, and, as we continue to sell to continue work in the Alps. Couple that to the need weapons to tyrant regimes and war criminals, there will to reform modern-day ticket touting in the secondary be more political instability in all sorts of countries. online ticket market through the online safety Bill, We are responsible for a huge number of the people who and end on consideration of the recommendations of come to this country seeking refuge, and we should accept your Lordships’ National Plan for Sport and Recreation that and that it is our duty to make them welcome. Committee, when completed in 2022. There are some important pieces of legislation tucked This is a 10-point action plan—for it not just culture into the Speech, but I feel that those are the ones that for which the DCMS is responsible. will fall through the cracks and that we will probably not get around to. This is very distressing because it 4.43 pm will be the most regressive laws that come through and Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP): My Lords, I that the Government support. This is really appealing welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, and I to the darkest parts of human nature and it is not hope that she enjoys her time in the House as much as good for our collective psyche, not just here in the I do. I listened with great interest to the Minister, who House but in the wider society. As such, I promise you delivered, in his usual emollient way, all these incredibly strong and relentless opposition. nasty pieces of legislation that the Government are bringing in. Although I will try to stay coherent as I 4.48 pm speak, I am actually spitting with fury, so I ask for that to be taken into account. Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]: My Lords, We have to understand that there are a lot of Bills I join others in congratulating the noble Baroness, in this Queen’s Speech, and, given that this is the third Lady Fullbrook, on her maiden speech. I start by Speech of the Prime Minister in two years and that echoing the pleas of my noble friend Lady McIntosh most of the legislation that he has announced has not and the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, for more attention actually happened—sometimes it is on its third, fourth to be paid to culture and media issues in these debates. or even fifth iteration—I am staggered that there are I hope that the good points made already by many so many Bills in it. Again and again, the really important noble Lords around the House will be picked up by stuff, like the Environment Bill, gets put off, which will DCMS. I declare an interest as a member of the be very embarrassing when we come to COP 26. Communications and Digital Committee of your However, of course, the Government always find Lordships’House.However,what follows are my thoughts time for the really nasty bits of legislation, like the spy on the online safety Bill, prefaced in the gracious cops Bill and the overseas operations Bill. I worry Speech. about this trend of the Government, which is why I In Our Digital Future, published yesterday,the Labour have chosen to speak today, on the topics of crime and Party made it clear that we want empowered citizens justice and home affairs, because this is where the who do not merely have access to the internet but are Government do some of their worst work. equipped with the skills and tools to make the most of 507 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 508 technology and who are protected from those who use legislation and policy. It is all about strengthening the it to cause harm. The online safety Bill shares these already overmighty Executive. In four minutes, I shall aspirations, and, in so doing, reverses the history of try to give four examples. international internet technology governance, based First, there is judicial review, reviewed in an excellent as it is on a 1990s presumption that this would be best report by the committee chaired very ably and left to companies and technologies, which had little knowledgeably by the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, which legal ability to govern the things that people did on the the Government clearly intended should come up with platforms. severe curtailment of judicial review. It did not. In a Thankfully, democratic Governments have begun, courteous letter to me, the Lord Chancellor rather gave at last, to appreciate the extent of the harms that arise the game away. Having commended the committee for for citizens and businesses due to a loosely governed its empirical evidence, he said, “However, we feel that internet and its patchy adherence to human rights. In the analysis in the report supports consideration of that spirit, I welcome the draft online safety Bill. The additional policy options to more fully address the Government have got a lot right, particularly the issues they identified.” In other words, “We’re from adoption of the duty-of-care approach, the focus on the Government and we are here to help you by protecting systemic measures and the roles to be played by Ofcom, you, the judiciary, from yourselves and ensuring that the DMU and the ICO. However, there are some gaps you don’t do any more protecting of the people.” and concerns which have been referenced already, In all their arguments on this, the Government fail including the very long lead time before the Bill will to recognise that in a system where the Government so actually reach the statute book, democratic accountability often control the Commons with a large majority, it is and a worry that the Bill underplays the current dangers particularly important that the courts can insist on to children and vulnerable users. adherence to the law and, when rights are threatened, However, the welcome pre-legislative scrutiny will to see that there has been proper decision-making, and help sort out these issues. I hope it will focus on the that what is proposed or done is clearly and explicitly following points. The internet gives everyone a voice—a within the intentions set out by Parliament. really important point—but the resulting cacophony The second example is the sentencing legislation can mean that minority voices are lost in their entirety. that began in the previous Session. It gives the Home Forms of expression which in the past were tolerable, Secretary power to extend a prison sentence indefinitely even if they offended, are amplified to the point where on the basis of matters which have not been tested in action may be required to moderate volume and identity. court, subject only to whether the prisoner can prove a But that brings real threats to freedom of expression negative to the Parole Board—that he is not dangerous and to quality journalism. How can these tensions be and did not commit offences for which he has never resolved? What content should be treated as illegal been tried. Serious issues of public safety are involved—I and who decides what should be treated as illegal but recognise that—but I do not see that we can leave the harmful? If there are forms of activity that were lawful Bill in its present form without crossing a boundary in the past but should now be made unlawful, surely between the role of the Executive and the role of the Parliament needs to set these new laws, lead and give judiciary. clarity. If platforms are to determine their community Thirdly, the Prime Minister is appointing lots of standards,what role should be played by the regulator—or new Peers. This is not an attack on the noble Baroness regulators—and will it have the resources and the whose maiden speech we heard earlier, but the overall powers it needs across the piece? effect of what the Prime Minister is doing is to block Online platforms have a responsibility to protect the means by which this House has agreed, voluntarily, users against fraudulent and scam content as well as to reduce its own size. I was a member of the group other harms. The Bill needs to rise to the broader which advocated for the proposals. Failure to tackle challenge to democracy posed by digital technology the growing size of an unelected House undermines itself, and we will need systems of regulation that the reputation that the good work of so many Peers protect that. As the Bill recognises, the platforms are a would otherwise earn. I think the Government like big part of the solution to online harms. They hold the having a second Chamber whose legitimacy they can technical expertise, the resources and the access to easily challenge, rather than a reformed House, which clean up online spaces, but they do not have the would be more widely seen as an appropriate body to legitimacy to make decisions about what constitutes a hold the Executive to account. free society and they should not be asked to do so My fourth example is in today’s other area: culture. without appropriate democratic oversight by Parliament. I declare an interest as being involved in a number of 4.51 pm heritage charities that have benefited, or need help to survive, from the recovery fund. I am worried by all Lord Beith (LD): I congratulate the noble Baroness, the briefings from DDCMS that board-level appointments Lady Fullbrook, and the many distinguished speakers in national cultural institutions need to be the subject in this debate who fastened on the Government’s of closer ministerial attention to ensure that various words that legislation will be introduced to restore the areas and views are better represented. As a northerner— balance of power between the Executive, the legislature you cannot live further north in England than I do—I and the courts. might welcome that, but not if it becomes more use of Try as I may, I cannot find anything in the gracious ministerial patronage to enforce politicians’ prejudices Speech which restores the balance by correcting or on highly valued institutions of precious national reducing the ever-growing power of the Executive. importance or just another version of patronage and I can find plenty of examples of the opposite, in both jobs for the boys. 509 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 510

[LORD BEITH] end-of-life care, doctors’ views are shifting in support Ministers like power, and invariably want more of of assisted dying. Two years ago, the Royal College of it. Legislating by decree and press conference during Physicians dropped its long-standing opposition to the Covid-19 crisis has given them even more of a assisted dying and the British Medical Association is taste for it. Our job is to do our best to restore the poised to do the same later this year. In a survey of balance by defending the rule of law and restoring and nearly 30,000 doctors the BMA found that 50% of its deepening parliamentary accountability. members supported a change in the law, compared to 39% against. This progress is fast spreading across the 4.55 pm English-speaking world and in predominantly Catholic countries closer to home. As more and more countries The Earl of Arran (Con): My Lords, it is now more legislate, we gain more and more evidence that assisted than 15 years since I sat on a Select Committee in your dying can be legislated for safely and with huge popular Lordships’ House. It was established to look at draft support, giving dying people the right to choose how legislation on assisted dying for the terminally ill. As a they end their lives. committee, we had the privilege of travelling to the I say very simply: we did not ask to come into this Netherlands, Dignitas in Switzerland and Oregon, world; might we now be allowed to say how we would which then stood as the only state in the USA to have wish to depart from it? legalised this practice. We were led with great distinction by my noble and 5 pm learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern as chairman and the 10 other distinguished members included the Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]: My Lords, I wish to noble Baroness, Lady Jay, and the noble Baroness, move to issues of modern slavery. I declare an interest Lady Finlay, who is in the Chair today. as co-chair of the All-Party Group on Human Trafficking and Modern Slavery and as a vice-chair of the Human Weheard in Oregon that the practice there was working Trafficking Foundation. well and had been integrated into palliative and hospice The Government are rightly proud of the Modern care systems, and its safeguards were protecting against Slavery Act 2015, which is a splendid piece of legislation, anypossible abuse.Regrettably,in 2006 this House declined but it urgently requires further implementation. The to support a new law based on Oregon’s experience, position that we hold as innovators in dealing with although it did lend its support to similar proposals in modern slavery across the world is slipping. I will refer 2014 and 2015, only for the Bill to fall due to lack of to several parts of the Frank Field review of the Act, time after three full days of debate, including two full of which I was a member. The most important gap is days of consideration in Committee. As a House, we in the supply chain. Much of the transparency of gave our support to tightly safeguarded legislation—that supply chain legislation—Section 54—requires it to be is, two doctors independent of one another would mandatory for the large companies to report effectively have to assess a person’s mental capacity and prognosis, on their supply chain situation. Serious penalties are and the entire process would be overseen by a High being discussed, but so far there has been no commitment Court judge. These were, and continue to be, the most by the Government and no action. They must act on safeguarded and conservative proposals anywhere in the proposal for an enforcement body. The Home the world. They were supported by your Lordships’ Office should look across the Atlantic to see how the House and by more than 80% of the British public. USA is now dealing with hot goods and the measures It is now more than five years since we have had a that it has in place to stop the importation of goods or substantive debate on this issue and public demand for produce obtained by forced labour. The Government changing the law has not subsided. Nor, indeed, has must make the legislation effective to ensure that international progress.Oregon’sexample has been followed goods and produce provided by forced labour overseas by 10 additional American states, with New Mexico are stopped before they enter the country. becoming the 11th jurisdiction in the USA to permit The guardian provision for trafficked children is assisted dying earlier this year. Altogether,over 70 million excellent, but pilot schemes are no longer necessary; it Americans live in states where assisted dying is permitted. should now be rolled out across the country. It extends Tasmania this year became the third Australian state only to the age of 18, although the review gave good to do so. New Zealand held a referendum on assisted reasons to provide support up to 21 or even 25. There dying last year, which passed with an overwhelming is concern about the position of very vulnerable teenagers majority. In Europe, too, the Low Countries and transitioning into adulthood without appropriate Switzerland have long permitted euthanasia and assisted support. There is a real risk of those young people dying. They are being joined by Spain and Portugal, being re-trafficked. According to Safe Passage, there whose Parliaments have approved new laws in the past are 10,000 unaccompanied refugee children in Europe. few months. Important court judgments are likely to They are in danger of abuse and of being trafficked. The lead to similar legislation in Austria and Germany. UK has brought in a considerable number of children, Even closer to home, Ireland is currently debating which is admirable but not sufficient. Since Brexit, as assisted dying; a vote in the Dáil passed the Dying the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, with Dignity Bill in October. In Scotland, too, Holyrood said earlier, Dublin III is no longer applying, and under will tackle this issue again in the near future and looks current and intended immigration rules it is estimated likely to succeed in legislating for assisted dying. that 95% of children may not qualify to be admitted. Perhaps influenced by the growing clamour for law The proposal to penalise children who enter the change and the mighty evidence that assisted dying can country illegally is entirely contrary to the Government’s be introduced safely and fully integrated into modern welfare commitment towards children. Compensation 511 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 512 for victims, and reparation orders, appear to have made apply to IRA/Sinn Féin and loyalist terrorists. It is not no progress. There remains a considerable lack of often that all the Province’s political parties come support after victims have received a positive NRM together to agree on something, but they are united in decision, only partly filled by the wonderful work of their hostility to this news. Concerns were shared by NGOs.This places victims in danger of being re-trafficked victims’ groups right across Northern Ireland. What and leads to non-effective prosecutions where the main the Government were proposing was an amnesty that witness—the victim—cannot be found. would have treated police officers and members of the Finally, the dramatic cut in overseas aid has had a UK Armed Forces in precisely the same manner as the devastating effect on modern slavery projects. This terrorists who were seeking to murder them. It is should be a matter of great concern to the Home appalling; it is unacceptable. Those who suffered loss Office. The Government have, in the past, been generous want justice and they should receive it if we are to in supporting the setting up, with the USA, of the address the legacy of the past. Global Fund to End Modern Slavery in 2017. The I am sorry to say that the Prime Minister’s dereliction impact of the cut in funding is to reduce the current of duty last week in the way he treated the families of year’s expected funding from an estimated £7.6 million those killed in Ballymurphy half a century ago does to £1.1 million. Among its effects is the cancellation of not augur well. His predecessor David Cameron may initiatives in Bangladesh with the IOM to stop forced not be winning many friends at the moment but his labour in unregulated clothing factories, which adversely Oral Statement delivered in another place on the day affects 10,000 victims, including 1,000 children under 14, of the Bloody Sunday report was published in 2010 and a project in India to help 8,000 children in Mumbai. and gained him a huge number of admirers.Mr Cameron’s As chair of the National Commission on Forced Marriage, apology to the Bloody Sunday families was sincere, honest I remind the House that forced marriage is an aspect and offered in full public view. In contrast, Boris of modern slavery. Johnson’s words to the Ballymurphy families were conveyed in what amounted to a circular email to 5.04 pm their solicitor a full 48 hours after the report was published. Lord Rogan (UUP): My Lords, I first congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, on her maiden Victims on all sides deserve to be treated with respect speech. I am especially pleased to welcome such a fine and dignity.The Prime Minister’s—I would say—tactless Ulster Scots lady into your Lordships’ House. behaviour was entirely the opposite. Legacy issues have bedevilled Northern Ireland for far too long and The pandemic has had a detrimental impact on the the Government must finally show responsible leadership Government’s so-called levelling-up agenda. Indeed, to allow us to move forward. following the gracious Speech, the Government admitted that a levelling-up White Paper will appear only at some point later this year. Meanwhile, by breaking his 5.09 pm cast iron promise not to place a post-Brexit regulatory Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]: My Lords, border in the Irish Sea, the Prime Minister made a the new plan for immigration will, we are told, increase conscious decision to level down Northern Ireland by the asylum system’s “fairness and efficacy”. Wecertainly making it more difficult for businesses there to compete need more fairness and efficacy, but the Law Society and denying local shoppers access to many goods. I and refugee and human rights groups warn that this cannot overstate the sense of betrayal felt in the Province plan spells the opposite, with over the Prime Minister’s actions and the Government’s “dire consequences for children and young people”, refusal to fully acknowledge the ever-growing list of problems that the sea border has created. according to the Children’s Society. The subject we are dealing with today is culture. In I can do no better than to cite the UNHCR’s the year of Northern Ireland’s centenary, I am sorry to devastating critique. This say that Boris Johnson has chosen to undermine our “discriminatory two-tiered approach … will undermine the 1951 British culture. He has placed on us a position where Convention and international protection system, not just in the UK, but globally.” we must follow rules set by the European Union, over which the United Kingdom Government, Northern A commitment to resettlement and improved safe and Ireland Assembly and local voters have absolutely no legal pathways, which are urgently needed but for say. It is the greatest diminution of British sovereignty which there is no detail, cannot, since a previous Conservative Government signed the “substitute for or absolve a State of its obligations towards Anglo-Irish agreement 36 years ago. That should not persons seeking asylum at its borders”. rest easy with Her Majesty’s Government, nor indeed The inferior temporary protection status offered to with those who support them in the Lobbies of your irregular entrants who stay in the UK is incompatible Lordships’ House. with international refugee law. We are told that the There are two references to victims in this gracious “human consequences …will be very serious’. Speech, one being how the Government intend to The UNHCR has offered to work with the Government “address the legacy of the past” “to adopt a more sensible, humane and legally sound” in Northern Ireland. On the eve of the English local approach. Could the Minister tell us the Government’s elections,the Government advised twofriendly newspapers response to this offer, how their plan will work, that they would ban future Troubles-related prosecutions given the reported refusal of all EU countries to against soldiers and police officers. What was less co-operate, and what are the plans to open up safe prominent in this briefing was that these rules also routes? 513 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 514

[BARONESS LISTER OF BURTERSETT] Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]: I am just More positive is the commitment to correct what is finishing. described as The forthcoming levelling up White Paper must “historical anomalies in British Nationality law which have long address these issues if it is to offer any hope to the prevented individuals from gaining British citizenship or registering millions who are struggling to stay afloat. for citizenship, through no fault of their own.” This is a real injustice suffered by the children of British Overseas Territory citizens of a certain age, 5.14 pm denied citizenship simply because their parents were not married. It should have been rectified years ago. Lord Dholakia (LD): My Lords, I make no apologies for drawing the attention of the House yet again to the With regard to registering for citizenship, there has state of our prisons. The United Kingdom continues been a long-standing concern across the House about to have the highest rate of imprisonment in western the barriers faced by children who were born or have Europe. In England and Wales, there are 131 prisoners grown up in the UK who have to register their entitlement for every 100,000 people in the general population, to citizenship because of their parents’ immigration compared with 90 in Spain and 69 in Germany. status. In February, the Court of Appeal ruled that the exorbitant fee is unlawful because it was set without Sentence lengths have greatly increased in recent consideration of the best interests of the child. Can the years. The average sentence for an indictable offence is Minister assure us that the consequent Section 55 best now 58 months, which is more than two years longer interests assessment will be published, and say when? than in 2008. Mandatory life-sentenced prisoners now spend on average 18 years in custody compared with This shameful policy reflects the failure to put 13 years in 2001. children’s best interests at the heart of policy-making. Twice during the Queen’s Speech debate, ministerial We still send large numbers of people to prison for responses have ignored calls for a Cabinet-level Minister short periods: 47% of those entering prison under for children. I trust this will not happen today. Among sentence are imprisoned for six months or less.Community other things, such a Minister would help to ensure that sentences are significantly more effective than short children are treated as a priority for the levelling-up prison sentences in reducing reoffending among agenda. comparable offenders, yet the use of community sentences has halved in the past decade. As a result of the higher Given the prominence of that agenda, it is use of custody, most of our prisons are overcrowded: incomprehensible, as the Joseph Rowntree Foundation 80 out of 121 currently hold more prisoners than their has commented, that there is no sign of the employment certified “normal” population. Bill, which we were promised would protect and enhance workers’ rights. The Government have responded that Safety in prison has deteriorated over the past the Bill will be introduced when the time is right. But decade, during which the number of deaths in prisons surely,if we are to “build back better”from the pandemic, has risen by over 50%. For every 1,000 prisoners, there this parliamentary Session is exactly the right time: the were 741 incidents of self-harm in the period 2010-2020, right time to address endemic insecurity, especially compared with 282 in 2014. Over half of British among the lower paid; the right time to introduce promised prisons have found it more difficult to provide resettlement leave, which needs to be paid, for around 5 million support to help prisoners avoid reoffending on release. informal carers who juggle paid work and care and Over the past 10 years, there has been a marked who have borne such a heavy burden during the pandemic; decline in prison inspectorate ratings of our prisons and the right time to reform shared parental leave, so for purposeful activities and resettlement. as to ensure greater paternal involvement, as mothers Covid-19 has caused particularly acute problems have paid the price during the pandemic due to increased for the prison system. During lockdown, the vast childcare responsibilities. When will the responses to majority of prisoners have spent 23 hours or more out the long-standing consultations on both carers’ and of every 24 in their cells—2,000 of them in conditions parental leave finally be published? that amount to solitary confinement. But even before The briefing note on the speech includes a welcome lockdown it was clear that purposeful activity in our acknowledgement that levelling up involves living prisons had suffered a marked decline in recent years. standards. This means that it must address poverty The latest projections predict a prison population and in particular child poverty, which is worsening in of over 98,000 by 2026. The Government have announced terms of both numbers and depth. We need investment plans for a significant programme of prison building. in what the Biden Administration term the “human Despite this, last year’s report from the Public Accounts infrastructure” of financial support. At a minimum, Committee, Improving the Prison Estate, estimated the Government should now commit to maintaining that the demand for prison places could outstrip supply the £20 UC uplift and its extension to legacy and by the next financial year. We all know that prison related benefits, and to improving support for children, building programmes take time to deliver additional given the mounting evidence of how families with places, and this one will be no exception. children have suffered disproportionately over the past Against this background, the Government are year. The forthcoming levelling up White Paper must introducing the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts address these issues— Bill, which contains a raft of provisions for lengthening sentencing further, including measures to ensure that Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con): My Lords, I most offenders serve lengthy minimum sentences and remind noble Lords that the advisory time limit for to increase the time served under discretionary life this debate is four minutes. sentences. The Government estimate that these measures 515 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 516 will increase the prison population by a further 700—the Courts Bill coming before your Lordships’ House, in population of a medium-sized prison—by 2028. The particular the elements of the Bill which balance the Government’s impact assessment of this acknowledges rights of protestors with the rights of others to go that there is little evidence that these measures will about their business unhindered. It will enable the deter offenders or reduce the level of crime. police to better manage the highly disruptive protests I have one simple question for the Minister: will the of which we have witnessed and tolerated far too Government adopt a policy objective of reducing, or many of late in the vicinity of Parliament, with the preferably ending, overcrowding in our prison system, accompanying criminal damage to our monuments. with clear target dates? It is a question that can be The Bill contains many new and welcome aspects. I answered with a yes or a no. If the Government were support it, as I do the draft victims’ Bill which at long prepared to adopt a clear objective along these lines, last acknowledges the current shortcomings in our they would gain the support of noble Lords in all responsibilities to the most important people in the parts of this House. whole of the criminal justice system—the victim. Tucked away in the gracious Speech is a sentence I have no doubt that there will be much debate which will require lots of attention in coming months: around these Bills. I look forward to lending them my “Measures will be brought forward to address racial and support and, in particular, our very deserving police ethnic disparities”. service. Nowhere are these disparities more obvious than in prison sentences. I see that my time is up, but I intend 5.22 pm to take this matter up in future debates, and I will Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab) [V]: My Lords, on write formally to the Minister on this issue. 17 September 2019, I attended the first day of an historic sitting of our Supreme Court. It was subsequently 5.19 pm to rule unanimously—as I had repeatedly warned and Lord Davies of Gower (Con): My Lords, I shall keep argued—that the Government’s prorogation of this this contribution brief and to the point. Your Lordships Parliament was a grave and unlawful abuse of power. will not be surprised to learn that, as a former As I walked out into the lunchtime sun, with just Metropolitan police officer, I shall confine my remarks one young female colleague, we were the target of a to policing. noisy, at times abusive, and even racist demonstration. Noble Lords may remember the mood. Despite a This past year or so has seen probably one of the counterdemonstration, there was a negligible police most challenging times for British policing. Tasked presence; however,neither group surged. It was unpleasant, with ensuring that people remain safe during the pandemic but I was unafraid for my safety and would never have and act within the law, policing has often met with dreamed of making a complaint. Nor did I hear a derision and contempt—not only from certain elements complaint from anyone associated with government— in our society but, I regret to say, from politicians at all quite the contrary. I do not believe that the streets levels. That was particularly evident immediately after outside Parliament or our higher courts should be the Sarah Everard vigil which, as your Lordships will islands of tranquillity, nor that I should be protected recall, took place on Clapham Common on Saturday from offence, let alone dissent. I fear that this Government 13 March. Her Majesty’s Inspectorate report says that display a thinner skin. “what began as a quiet, sombre affair, with a minute’s silence for Ms Everard at 6 pm became a rally, complete with microphones, a The Minister is a commercial lawyer of considerable public address system, placards and a dense crowd. Police made distinction. I am merely one of the public lawyers nine arrests as they moved to disperse the crowd. Photographs whom he mentioned in his opening remarks. Indeed, I and video footage of the scenes, including police officers detaining am one of the activist lawyers to whom his colleague, people, were widely circulated on social media and published in the Home Secretary,often refers disparagingly.However, the media.” I hope he will agree that I have always tried to disagree My word, the main news channels had a field day. They with him kindly and well. were rapidly supported by politicians, keen to get on the In my view, the best way of protecting free speech critical bandwagon. I made a note of them, but there and democratic dissent is to show and not tell. These were far too many to recall here in a four-minute speech. values cannot be imposed, like some kind of one-way The inspectorate concluded: system, with the stroke of the town planner or a “When the decision to move to enforcement was made, our parliamentary draughtsman’spen. Freedom of expression, review found nothing to suggest that officers acted inappropriately liberty and equality under the law constitute the ultimate or in a heavy-handed manner. In fact, we found evidence of two-way street. I urge the Government to recognise patience and professionalism during engagement prior to, during and after arrest … Our inspection has led us to conclude that this and not continue to prosecute a culture war in police officers at Clapham Common worked, in sometimes challenging which there is one law for some—especially the Executive. circumstances, to maintain public safety and keep the peace. For many public lawyers and vulnerable people, Unlike the public, who chose to be there, the police were there including the desperate refugees some of us spend our because they serve to keep us safe.” lives representing, attempts to clip the wings of judicial Sadly, none of the critics had the courage to come review look nothing short of retribution for the forward in light of the findings to withdraw or apologise prorogation case of 2019 to which I have referred. It is for their remarks. like losing 11-nil in the FA Cup final and coming for We parliamentarians task the police to ensure our the referee with a baseball bat. Attempts in the Police, safety during this pandemic. As politicians, the very least Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill to curtail peaceful we can do is to offer our support in these challenging times. but noisy and impactful protest by law seem like a I look forward to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and response to the growing international recognition of 517 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 518

[BARONESS CHAKRABARTI] 5.30 pm the Black Lives Matter and Extinction Rebellion Lord Ramsbotham (CB) [V]: My Lords, I must movements that will just as easily be used against admit to being disappointed that the gracious Speech vigils such as that for Sarah Everard. It is an illiberal did not include details of the criminal justice catch-up dog whistle at a time when the Government should be and recovery plan, for which the Ministry of Justice is attempting greater post-pandemic unity and equality—the responsible, because one of the main effects of the rule of law, not more divide and rule. Covid pandemic is that virtually all rehabilitation An essential government free speech czar for universities work with prisoners has ceased. Coming on top of is an oxymoron indeed, not least when these institutions Chris Grayling’s disastrous transforming rehabilitation are bound by Article 10 of the human rights convention programme that virtually destroyed our world-class —our first amendment if you like—and subject to probation service, that means that there is a great deal judicial review. Perhaps the Government would do of catching up and recovering to be done, as the better not to threaten such protections and demonstrate Minister admitted in his introduction. the tolerance and civility that they demand of others. For the last 26 and a half years, I have advised 5.26 pm successive Home Secretaries and Justice Secretaries that if they did not introduce a strategy for imprisonment, The Lord Bishop of Oxford [V]: My Lords, it is a coupled with the management structure common in privilege to take part in this debate, to follow the noble every business, hospital or school, in which named Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, and to welcome the noble people are made responsible and accountable for certain Baroness, Lady Fullbrook—I thank her for her maiden functions within that business, hospital or school, speech. I warmly welcome the online safety Bill, referenced sustained improvement would not happen, which it in the most gracious Address. I declare my interest as a has not. In the case of prisons, I have advocated that board member for the Centre for Data Ethics and directors should be appointed for every type of prison Innovation. and certain types of prisoners, such as lifers, sex It is my view that the online safety Bill represents a offenders, foreign nationals, the elderly and those serving major step forward in preventing harm to children, indeterminate sentences. Directors would be responsible vulnerable adults and our wider society. The Bill places and accountable to the Secretary of State through a a robust duty of care on content-sharing platforms chain of subordinates, starting with the Minister for and creates a major new regulator by extending the Prisons and going down through the Director General remit of Ofcom. Those designing the Bill have listened of Prisons to individual prison governors, who would carefully and have risen to the challenge of scoping a be responsible and accountable to the director of their regulatory framework for new and rapidly changing type of prison. I now advise the Secretary of State for technologies. The internet is used by over 90% of Justice that without introducing such a management adults in the United Kingdom. There are many benefits structure, he will not be able to catch up on, let alone to that use, as we have seen during the pandemic, but recover, all that has been lost. It is essential that also great potential for harm. As the memorandum prisons and probation are included in the Government’s from DCMS indicates very clearly, this landmark job creation plans mentioned in the gracious Speech. regulation will end the era of self-regulation. The Bill is likely to prove a key benchmark, not only for the United 5.34 pm Kingdom, but for governments around the world. The technology is evolving rapidly,and the Bill provides Lord Foster of Bath (LD) [V]: My Lords, I too flexible mechanisms for responding to new developments congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, on through the evolution of codes of practice and the powers her maiden speech, and I refer to my interests in the given to the Secretary of State. The extra time given to register. develop the Bill has been well used; however,the legislation As other noble Lords have said, the draft online and frameworks are needed very urgently as other safety Bill is an important part of the Government’s noble Lords have said. Will the Government set out legislative programme, but I am extremely concerned their assessment of the timescale, from the publication that in its latest iteration there is no mention of of the Bill to the date when the regime will be working? gambling, despite earlier intentions. Two years ago, Are there ways to accelerate this, including a request the online harms White Paper made numerous references from the Government now to Ofcom, asking it to to gambling, which it described as an example of prepare to receive powers under the online safety Bill. “designed addiction” and as demonstrating a Will the Government please clarify what has happened “fragmented regulatory environment which is insufficient to meet about their intention to deal with the vital questions of the full breadth of the challenges we face”— age verification and access to pornography sites, which challenges which the draft online safety Bill was partially seem not to have been included, as I thought was seeking to rectify. But now, it appears, gambling is to promised? Finally, will they clarify the ongoing role of be omitted from the Bill. When she winds up, will the Parliament in further improving the legislation offered Minister confirm that this is the case and explain why? and in the SI-making process, where the Secretary of This absence is extremely worrying, since the Bill State seems to have the initiative? could provide a vehicle to address many of the growing The Bill will make a very substantial contribution in concerns about online gambling. translating the deep values of our society, the worth of I chair Peers for Gambling Reform, a group of over each individual, public responsibility and care for 150 Members of your Lordships’ House pressing for children into the online world, and I look forward to it the reforms recommended in the Select Committee becoming law. report on gambling. Those reforms range from curbs 519 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 520 on sports sponsorship and advertising to the introduction a full-scale APPG. I took a close interest in the Dennis of a mandatory levy to fund research, education and Hutchings case, and I declare an interest because I treatment, and from establishing a gambling ombudsman have met him a number of times and know him well. to classifying loot boxes as gambling and so regulating As noble Lords will probably recall, Dennis Hutchings them accordingly. Of course, we also need measures to was serving in Northern Ireland in County Tyrone in tackle illegal gambling, the advertising of legal gambling 1974 and was part of a patrol that resulted in the companies on illegal websites and the use of drones killing of one John Pat Cunningham. The case was filming sports events to give their owners an unfair fully investigated at the time; there was absolutely no gambling advantage. question of any of the soldiers on patrol being These and other reforms are urgently needed. Two charged, and they were told to get on with their million people are affected by gambling-related harm; military careers. over 60,000 children are problem gamblers; and, on average, sadly, there is one gambling-related suicide Fast-forward to 2010 and the Historical Enquiries every day. But online gambling is a particular cause Team, when these soldiers were investigated again, for concern. Smartphones enable 24/7 unsupervised including Dennis Hutchings. He was told once again gambling. Yet, in comparison to land-based gambling, that there was no case to answer, that his case had been it is far less regulated. After all, the key legislation was thoroughly investigated, and that he should get on enacted before the first iPhone was launched in 2007. with his retirement and enjoy the rest of his life. For example, there are limits on stakes and prizes for Eight years afterwards, in 2018, he was arrested in a land-based games but not for those available on the dawn raid and has been charged with murder. internet, where over 40% of all gambling now takes place. Obviously, that case is sub judice, but I can refer in The Government’s gambling review is of course detail to the Joe McCann case and the two members of welcome, but it looks increasingly as though the the Parachute Regiment, Soldiers A and C. This case Government are shying away from taking action. Unless involved a notorious and wicked IRA killer. Soldiers available legislative opportunities, such as the online A and C were charged with murder. The case was safety Bill, are used, it could be many years before the expected to last at least six weeks. As noble Lords will Government deliver on their promise to tackle gambling- know, the case folded after a matter of days when the related harm. After all, the last major gambling review judge ruled that evidence gleaned from the original began in 1999, but it took a further eight years before investigation and from the HET was not admissible. new legislation was enacted. Given the scale of current We now know that the former deputy head of the gambling problems, we simply cannot afford to wait HET actually recommended that there should be no another eight years. prosecution because no new evidence was available. Even gambling operators believe the online safety Frankly, it is staggering that this case went ahead. Bill should be used, for example, to crack down on I am very concerned, because we are told that there unregulated gambling operators. But some reforms are more than 200 cases in the pipeline involving veterans can be made without new legislation, yet even in such in Northern Ireland and that a number of them will go cases, there is evidence that the Government are not to prosecution quite soon. We know about the soldiers pushing ahead as quickly as possible. For instance, the who have been charged as a consequence of involvement Gambling Commission is using its existing powers to in the Bloody Sunday killings and the recent Ballymurphy consider affordability—how to ensure that all gambling inquest. I am concerned that no one has mentioned operators use a common system of checks to ensure the impact on the lives of these soldiers and the fact that customers can afford to gamble at the level they that very few of these prosecutions will probably now choose. But newspaper reports now suggest that the have much chance of succeeding. Government want to take this responsibility away This leads me to the commitment in the Queen’sSpeech from the Gambling Commission and incorporate it on Northern Ireland veterans.The details are fairly sketchy, into a wider gambling review, which will lead to but HMG have made it clear that they are looking at unnecessary delay. Can the Minister confirm this and, some form of amnesty or truth and reconciliation again, explain why this much-needed reform should be commission. I am very nervous about this, because it delayed? would certainly imply at first instance some form of Reforms to gambling are urgently needed, and the equivalence between soldiers and police officers doing Government must not delay. their duty and those terrorists who had one sole aim in life: to go out there to maim and kill. Indeed, the noble 5.38 pm Lord, Lord Rogan, and in particular the noble Lord, Lord Bellingham (Con): My Lords, it is a pleasure Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown, in his to follow the noble Lord, Lord Foster,and I congratulate typically passionate way, pointed out that these soldiers the two noble Baronesses on their superb maiden and police officers had no alternative: they were doing speeches, which were a delight to listen to. their duty, whereas terrorists did have an option. I welcome the overall thrust of the Queen’s Speech, I suggest to the Minister that there is a way forward and I thought the Minister was extremely impressive that does not involve new legislation. In future, the in laying out for the House exactly what the programme Attorney-General should sign off all future prosecutions. entails. I want to concentrate on that part of the Speech There should be an override for the UK AG in terms that referenced Northern Ireland veterans. I would of national security, so that every single case, be it like to give it a cautious welcome, with some concerns. terrorists who killed or soldiers involved in killings, When I was in the other place, I was the founder of the would have to be signed off by the Attorney-General. all-party veterans’support group, which has now become Victims would know that these cases would not go 521 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 522

[LORD BELLINGHAM] 5.47 pm uninvestigated and soldiers, veterans and police officers would be able to sleep at night knowing that unless Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick (CB): My Lords, the there was compelling new evidence they would not be noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, began this debate by saying prosecuted. that the wheels of justice never stop turning. I remind the House that in the last gracious Speech in December 5.43 pm 2019, we had the promise of a royal commission on the criminal justice system. Subsequently, there were Lord Smith of Finsbury (Non-Afl) [V]: My Lords, I five Questions in this House, and every single time begin by reminding the House of my interests as there was evasion from the Ministry of Justice, which master of Pembroke College, Cambridge, and chair of said that the purposes of the royal commission were the Art Fund. Before I turn to issues of culture, I want still under consideration. Now it has been abandoned, to record my serious disappointment at one item in the unless the Minister can tell us in his reply that it will be gracious Speech: the decision to undertake a period of coming back. That is a massive disappointment to all further consultation before bringing in legislation to of us who have been concerned about the reality of ban conversion therapy for LGBT+ people. I have to justice for those who feel that miscarriage rather than ask the Government: what on earth is there to consult fairness is the normal experience. about? Conversion therapy is wrong. It is deeply damaging This gracious Speech rightly and understandably to those it is imposed on. It should be banned as prioritises victims, and everybody will have sympathy rapidly as possible. This is an unacceptable delay and, and understanding for that. But there is very little worse, it might be a way of smuggling in exceptions to understanding of the needs of those who are in prison a ban. The legislation should be brought forward now or who may face prison and where miscarriages without exceptions now. of justice are normative. I identify myself wholeheartedly I want mainly to address issues of culture, especially with the brilliant speeches of the noble Lords, the Government’s rather obvious decision that culture Lord Dholakia and Lord Paddick, who both identified war is their thing. They are at it with universities, the treatment of prisoners. A junior Minister in the flagging up in the gracious Speech the imposition of a Ministry of Justice—Alex Chalk MP in another place— duty to promote free speech, with an enforcer appointed issued a statement just the other day saying that prison by government. I am all in favour of free speech, especially leaders should not refer to people in prison as “inmates” in universities, where education is surely enhanced by or “residents”; they must be referred to harshly as the expression and contest of ideas and opinions, “prisoners” so that they can experience the reality of examined, tested and challenged as appropriate. But their vileness and crimes. This is not a right and the last thing we need is the Government deciding responsible attitude to take towards those who must what free speech should be allowed and what should not. deserve dignity and human rights. The Government Every bit as worrying, however, is what appears should not be playing to the agenda of the Daily now to be a government-directed imposition of their Express, Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph in seeking to version of correctness on our national museums and constantly push up sentences and to make prisons galleries. We have seen it in the recent decision not to harder and harsher. renew a distinguished academic’s term of office as There are those who would respond by saying, “So trustee of the Royal Museums Greenwich simply because you are on the side of prisoners and the vile?” Well, let his work focused on issues of decolonisation. We have me cite the example of one young man who came to seen it also in the letter sent by the Secretary of State a see me just three weeks ago. A young man by the name few months ago to museums and others telling them of Brandon, 24 years of age, was falsely accused and that they should not explore issues of contested heritage held on remand for 11 months in 2020, during which with a critical eye. The Government are trying to tell he was held in his cell for 23 hours and 45 minutes of museums what they can and cannot do. This really is every single day. When the charges against him were not on. There is a very precious thing called the subsequently proved to be false, there was no apology, arm’s-length principle, which is supposed to define the no compensation and no support. He was crushed as relationship between government and museums. The an individual and released with no recognition of the Government are tearing this principle apart. injustice done to him simply because police officers Our national museums and galleries are the great decided that he was to be a target. He now desperately storehouses of our nation’s culture, history, science needs support and help. and wisdom. They contain the things of beauty that we have collected over generations. They reflect our We see today in the newspapers the wonderful story nation’s identity in all its complexity, diversity and glory. of the brilliant law firm Hogan Lovells, which spent It is vital that this complexity, diversity and glory are eight years fighting for compensation for two black men displayed and explained to the public in the best and in North Carolina who have just received $75 million most effective way, and the people who know best how as a consequence of falsified convictions 31 years ago to do that are the curators and directors of those when both men were teenagers sent to prison on an museums. The last people to know how to do it are inappropriate, inaccurate and non-just basis. This is Governments and politicians. I say this in all earnestness the largest-ever payout in American criminal justice to the Government, as a former Secretary of State: I and the case was pursued entirely pro bono by the would not have dreamed of trying to tell museums international law firm. what they could display and what they could not, or In the UK, we do not have a system whereby the what they could say about it and what they could not. Criminal Cases Review Commission brings forward The Government, quite simply, must get out of the way. such cases with any speed or determination. We simply 523 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 524 allow those who are in prison to falter and fail. I have children are taken away from her and put into care; in my hand just one week’s worth of letters from she loses her accommodation because the contract is prisoners telling me of issues of injustice and miscarriage terminated and she is evicted; and of course in prison, in their cases. One man in particular, whose mother as I have mentioned, she is not able to avail herself of and aunt died as a result of the coronavirus, as a much in the way of support. Women in prison have usually consequence sought to ask the prison if he could been the victims of domestic violence, child abuse and watch his mother’s funeral on YouTube. He was denied all those things that we know often lead to people the opportunity to see his mother buried. That is not committing offences at the behest of controlling men. fairness and justice, treating prisoners with dignity or It saddened me that, when the Attorney-General a recognition of their human rights. was asked on “Woman’s Hour” why we were creating We therefore urgently need a royal commission and 500 new places for women when the majority of women for it to recognise that, yes, there are victims but there do not commit violent or serious offences, the response are also people whom injustice has locked away for was that 50,000 new police officers were being created too long. so that there would be many more arrests and therefore there was a need for many more prison places. That 5.51 pm does not seem like a very imaginative way of dealing Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab): My Lords, I with criminal justice or preventing crime. welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook. As a I turn to the other Bill that is an absolute travesty, woman of Glasgow heritage, that alone should the asylum reforms, which my noble friend Lord Blunkett undoubtedly make her a great asset to this House. made the arguments about very clearly. It is a shameful It is hard to select which pieces of the Government’s rejection of our obligations in international law. It legislative programme are the most dispiriting, but let should be remembered by everyone in this House—we me start with the Lord Chancellor’s plan to ratchet up are the last generation that really remembers this stuff; sentences of imprisonment. This is mere populist I remember my father, having coming back from the posturing. It has already been mentioned—I mention Second World War,telling us stories of the horrors—that it again because it is about wider Europe—that we the reason why the 1951 refugee convention was created have the highest prison population in Europe, surpassed was the problems that many had in getting out of Nazi only by Russia and Turkey. We are not talking just Germany and away from persecution. The drafters of about western Europe but about the wider Europe of the convention made it very clear— members of the Council of Europe. We are up there at the top of the league table, and it should be no source Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con): I remind the of pride to us. noble Baroness of the time. I was rather saddened by the Minister’s woeful slogan, “Tough on crime, tough on the perpetrators of Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab): Sorry. They crime”. I know that he seemed proud of it. However, made it clear that we have to treat a person as a while it may be a little jibe at the Labour aphorism, refugee, not simply according to the way in which they “Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime”, made their way to another country. the difference between a slogan and an aphorism, I agree with my noble friend Lord Smith: we cannot which is why I choose the word “aphorism”, is that delay the business of dealing with the persecution and there is a nugget of truth in an aphorism. The truth in misery faced by homosexual people in conversion that aphorism about having to deal with and look to therapy. That is a promise that was made, and I hope the causes of crime is because there one has a real the Government stick to it. This is not about a failure sophisticated project on trying to drive down crime. to protect religion; it is about preventing people from At the moment, our prisons are crammed full, with being treated horribly—exorcised and so on—in ways there being virtually no skills training, rehabilitation that are inhumane and do not recognise their essential or education. Yet the level of illiteracy is high among sexuality and humanity. Please proceed with that Bill. our prison population. It means, therefore, that their 5.57 pm ability to survive in society is harder. There are no anger management courses. It is truly abysmal that there is Lord McNally (LD): My Lords, I add my such an absence of courses to address drug addiction, congratulations to the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook. alcohol addiction and misogyny, which is the backdrop Maiden speeches are never easy,and in these circumstances to so much crime against women. Wealso have a depleted they are very difficult indeed. probation service, as was described by the noble Lord, As a number of people have said, the gracious Lord Ramsbotham. Probation officers are so hard-pressed Speech foreshadows the internet safety Bill, which is that they have no capacity to carry out the risk assessments intended to address some of the real harms inflicted that are key to the prevention of reoffending. on society, particularly on the young and the vulnerable, My great friend, the right reverend Prelate the by the abuses and misuses that have become apparent Bishop of Gloucester, spoke of women in the criminal over the nearly two decades since the Communications justice system, about which I, too, am concerned. In Act 2003. 2018, 62% of women in prison were serving sentences I welcome the promised pre-legislative scrutiny. The of less than six months. Since then, it is believed that Bill is large, complex and comprehensive but far from that figure has increased. We have the extraordinary oven-ready. I hope, for example, that we will take business of women being in prison, the vast majority evidence from the NSPCC about its concerns that the of whom are serving sentences of under six months. draft online safety Bill leaves out of scope a large number Think about the consequences of that. A woman’s of commercial pornography sites that have the potential 525 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 526

[LORD MCNALLY] made earlier by the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti. to cause harm to children. My noble friend Lord Foster For now, I want briefly to lay it alongside my experience has referred to the absence of gambling reform; the of 12 months of rapidly changing coronavirus regulations. noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, drew attention in his On many occasions, the precise boundaries between report to the absence of any attempts to curtail harm regulations—matters that police can enforce—and to our democracy; and the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, guidance, to which they can only direct our attention, mentioned scams and fraud, so there is much for the have been seriously blurred. Meanwhile, ministerial Select Committee to consider. statements have put pressure on our police to issue Over the coming year, we will have the opportunity fixed penalty notices, but the Crown Prosecution Service to produce legislation that is genuinely world-leading is quite clear that an adequate chain of evidence will in bringing the internet within the rule of law, but be almost impossible to achieve. much will depend on how Ofcom perceives its role. I fear that the nine Peelian principles, which have When Ofcom was first mooted as a regulator,I remember shaped UK policing since 1829, are being eroded. Behind it being said that “Murdoch’s lawyers will eat them for those principles, carved out in the years immediately breakfast.” That has not been the case, thanks in part after the Manchester Peterloo massacre of 1819, lies to the amendment to its powers proposed by the noble the central tenet that the power and authority of our Lord, Lord Puttnam, during the passage of the 2003 Act, police come from the consent of the public, not the power which gave Ofcom a hierarchy of responsibilities, the of the state. The will of the people cannot be collapsed first of which was to protect the interests of citizens. It into the ambitions and policies of the Government of is that hierarchy of duties that gives Ofcom the power the day, no matter what mandate or majority it may and flexibility to intervene where broader public interest hold in the lower House of this Parliament. Our police issues are involved. It will be Parliament’s job to must never be turned from agents of the public into ensure that Ofcom retains those powers and that flexibility agents of the state, let alone the enforcers of mere in the new regulatory landscape that we will be mapping ministerial policy.I look forward to some robust debates out in the Bill. in this House during the forthcoming Session. Another success of the 2003 legislation was the I turn briefly to two other matters. Several weeks carving out of the rights and responsibilities of our ago, the noble Lord, Lord Greenhalgh, the Minister public service broadcasters. Among those responsibilities for Housing, assured me that he would arrange for was to provide access to the work of the independent national representatives of those living in unsafe apartment production companies. The result has been to see what buildings to meet not only himself and his staff, as was a cottage industry develop into a worldwide success they have been doing, but representatives of Her Majesty’s story, employing some 75,000 people and attracting Treasury.I know that the noble Lord has made strenuous upwards of £3 billion a year in inward investment. efforts to fulfil that promise; meetings have been arranged There is a very real danger that the very successful but then postponed or cancelled due to the Treasury ecology of our media industries could be irreparably not being available. It is simply not good enough for a damaged by financial interests and ideological vandalism. major department to delay and obfuscate in this way. I It is essential that the new broadcasting settlement would be extremely grateful for reassurances, either in recognises, as did the 2003 Act, the need to protect this debate or in writing straight after, that this matter prominence and other benefits in return for the unique will be promptly rectified. contribution to our culture, creative industries and regional and national identities which the BBC, ITV, Finally,I am grateful that legislation to ban conversion Channel 4 and Channel 5 provide. therapy is now under consideration. I share that sense of urgency of the noble Lord, Lord Smith, and the As the noble Lord, Lord Smith, said, we are in a noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, who both spoke in the culture war between old values, which have helped last few minutes, and pray that the necessary consultation shape our liberal democracies over the last 100 years, will be focused and time-limited. The General Synod and the challenges to those values thrown up by the of the Church of England passed a motion to outlaw new technologies. It is the responsibility of Parliament such therapy several years ago, and by massive majorities, now to make sure that we are in a good place to win including my right reverend friends on these Benches. that war. However, I fear that too much emphasis may be placed 6.01 pm on the methods such so-called therapies employ. Good criminal law concentrates on the impact on the victim; The Lord Bishop of Manchester [V]:My Lords, I scrutiny as to the traumatic impact of the particular thank the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, whose techniques used by perpetrators is far better entrusted wisdom I look forward to hearing more often, for an to the courts, which can carefully weigh up the evidence excellent maiden speech. I also refer to my interests, in each case, rather than make it central to the legislation. stated in the register, in policing and housing. I look forward to our debates throughout what will A number of Bills mentioned in the gracious Speech be my first full Session as a Member of this House. will require our police to enforce new laws and regulations. We have already seen considerable disquiet expressed regarding what might amount to a very significant 6.05 pm reduction in the ability of the public to engage in Lord Bird (CB): It is wonderful to be able to talk peaceful political protest, particularly where such protests about justice, home affairs and culture. Based on my directly or indirectly impact on others. I will reserve own experience, if you want to sort out justice and all more detailed comments on this Bill for when it reaches the problems of people who end up in the justice your Lordships’House,although I note the wise comments system—often people from poverty and need, people 527 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 528 who have a predictable road to failure from the very most excellent maiden speech. It seems that our arms beginning—you do not sort it out through courts, will be closely linked in various provisions of the probation and all those things. You give them something upcoming police and criminal justice Bill. to do. I will concentrate my remarks on the criminal justice My own pathway out of wrongdoing was to become area. It is imperative that at all times we ensure that involved in culture. I became a posh geezer because I legislation in this field aligns closely with the legitimate started to go to art galleries and read books. As I have expectations of society to be properly protected and told this House exhaustively over the last four or five for the police to be given the authority to deliver years, I learnt to read at the age of 16 in a boys’ prison, common-sense, pragmatic solutions supported, in in a library supported by the local authority. We know large part, by the general public. As my noble friend that local authorities support 3,000 libraries in England Lord Davies of Gower said, we are extremely fortunate and 350 museums. to be served by highly trained, dedicated police officers In my humble opinion, if you want to change who operate under tremendous pressure and, in these something, you have to change it tangentially. If you days, under a quite extraordinary level of scrutiny. go on looking after the poor by simply giving them The role of the police and the breadth of the areas in money—not giving them an opportunity to move on, which they are now obliged to become involved often social mobility or the chance to read, write and learn puts them in the unenviable position of having to act all the skills necessary to get out of poverty—you end as umpires in very delicate fields which were previously up with this almost arithmetical, dead, dry belief in not their preserve, but the public expect be protected, what justice is. Justice is often something that happens whether at home or online. because you have given somebody the chance of some At home, burglary has an exceptionally low clear-up education, some social training, some culture and rate: I understand it is in the order of 3% or thereabouts, some arts along the way. and it would be a matter of huge regret if the impression I declare my interest not just in that I used this were to be given that this was not a high priority. cultural system to become who I am today but in that I Similarly, there is a perception developing that certain am a VP of the Local Government Association—I crimes are now just tolerated and treated more as an think we are all VPs of the LGA; there seem to be a irritating part of modern life, rather than as the fraud, load of them. I am fascinated by the fact that we have intimidation and theft they really are. I am talking an industry that is bigger than the automobile or now about crimes that are delivered through online, aerospace industries, oil and gas or life sciences. It is digital means. I do not think they should be referred to called the cultural industry and it brings in circa as digital crimes; they are not, they are fraud or theft £111 billion a year. That is where we need to spend our that happen to be delivered through a digital medium, money. Pre-Covid, it was growing faster than any be it automated text messages, automated voicemails, other industry in the United Kingdom. emails or other methods of communication. What is so beautiful about culture, the arts and As I was writing this speech, two text messages sport is that they create social mobility. We know it is came through to my device purporting to be from not fashionable to like social mobility, largely among high-street banks advising of suspect transactions. people who have social mobility. However, I assure Other members of my family at the same time, and other noble Lords that if you do not have social mobility, friends I checked, had received the identical approach what you need is social mobility—then you can say, “I for theft, essentially. I think there has to be a change of don’t like social mobility, because I’m now socially mindset around this. There must be hundreds of millions mobile.” Is that not brilliant? of such attempts at fraud happening every year in the I want the House to recognise the role of local UK alone. I fully agree with the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, authorities. They are the bedrock— they are the libraries that we should not tolerate this level of attempted and, and galleries. They are providing the necessary services no doubt, successful fraud. He is very much more of a that grow this enormous tree in the United Kingdom technical and industry expert than I am, certainly, and called the creative industries. very much of that activity may well originate from overseas, but this is a technologically enabled crime 6.10 pm and I believe it is time that the UK authorities and their agencies took a more aggressive, technologically Viscount Goschen (Con): My Lords, what a pleasure enabled approach to prosecute, disrupt and close down it is to follow the great oratory of the noble Lord, these gangs. I noted what the noble Lord said about Lord Bird, who I have not had the pleasure of hearing the role of the banks in all this, and that is certainly an in person in this Chamber before. I think we are all area where I would favour closer attention. Of course, very much looking forward to hearing more of that in I welcome the work of the National Fraud Intelligence person, rather than down a video link. On the subject Bureau and Action Fraud, but it is clear that an in question today, I was really struck by the level of epidemic of digitally enabled fraud is under way and a ambition and scale in the scope of the legislative new approach is required. agenda outlined in the gracious Speech—it certainly is a packed programme, as the late Mr Ronnie Barker Finally, before I close I want to comment on the might have said. Despite the breadth of the subject provisions of the reintroduced Police, Crime, Sentencing matter, I find myself following pretty closely in the and Courts Bill. It is very clearly wrong for groups of footsteps of my noble friend Lady Fullbrook and, people to be able to commit trespass with vehicles, to indeed, of the noble Lord, Lord Vaux of Harrowden. drive on to land they do not own and do not have I compliment my noble friend Lady Fullbrook on her permission to be on, to set up camp, with associated 529 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 530

[VISCOUNT GOSCHEN] However,what makes this task so much more difficult very often serious criminal behaviour, doing what they than it needs to be are the bad decisions taken year by want, disrupting the life of the law-abiding majority year by the coalition Government to dramatically cut and sheltering behind the knowledge that legal powers the money the police had and that local authorities do not exist to deliver a swift resolution. If ever there have. Of course, the present Government have changed was one, this is a classic area where the public are their view as far as the police are concerned, but I have bewildered that these powers do not currently exist. to end by saying that one can see the damage those The Bill would correct this and give the police the early decisions did every day. powers they need to restore the peace, which would be a clear win for common sense and for justice. 6.19 pm Baroness Harris of Richmond (LD) [V]: My Lords, I 6.15 pm too congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, Lord Bach (Lab) [V]: My Lords, I first congratulate on her maiden speech. I was sorry to see the gracious the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, on an excellent Speech did not mention anything about the health and maiden speech and, secondly, it is always a pleasure to well-being of injured police officers, especially as the follow the noble Viscount. Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill is being This is the first time in five years I have not had to considered by Parliament at the moment and was declare an interest when addressing the House. I stood touched on in the gracious Speech. For many years I down as Police and Crime Commissioner for Leicestershire was a trustee of the Police Rehabilitation Centre at and Rutland only last week, and from now I look Flint House in Oxfordshire, following which I was forward to once again playing a slightly greater role in invited to become president of the Police Treatment the House’s debates, not least on the Police, Crime, Centres, which are in Harrogate and Auchterarder in Sentencing and Courts Bill, which I suspect will take Perthshire. So, I declare that interest and also my up quite a lot of time later this year. other interests as set out in the register. Given the recent publication of the Home Office’s The PTCs are a two-centre police charity, founded first report into police and crime commissioners, and, 120 years ago, delivering first-class treatment to police of course, in the context of the gracious Speech, I officers and retired officers who have been injured on want to speak a little about my experience as a police or off duty, or who need special support. Attendance and crime commissioner—perhaps setting out a few on the psychological well-being programme alone has early thoughts on leaving the role. increased 87% in five years—an indication of the PCCs, police and crime commissioners, are now an increasing need for such support as our police officers established part of the policing scene: after all, they have face ever more serious and traumatic incidents. The existed for eight and a half years and have been through PTCs cost about £5 million each year to run, and three sets of elections. Their role is probably not what 90% of those costs come from individual officer donations. the noble Lord, Lord Wasserman, had in mind when The rest of the money comes from commercial activities he persuaded the then leader of the Opposition, run by the charity and fundraising. Of course, it has David Cameron, to introduce them. However, they been extremely difficult this year. Some forces also clearly play a significant role in every police force area. give us grants, and I would particularly like to mention On the whole, PCCs have shown moderation and the Police Service of Northern Ireland, which gives good sense whatever political party—or none—they large grants to us every year, again from its own belong to. The Home Office and the police have always officers. However, we estimate we have lost income of been concerned that this would not be the case.Thankfully around £400,000 since 2020 to date. we now have an association that is worthy of the The Government do not give any grants or provide name. It is now well lead and provides an excellent any financial support to the PTCs, unlike that which is service to all its members. However, I have concerns given in huge amounts to the military charities, running that now, for the first time, there are no independent into tens of millions each year; nor does the NHS give PCCs and one party has many more police and crime us any money, unlike that given to Combat Stress or commissioners than the other. There may be something Help for Heroes. Yet we save it considerable amounts of an outbreak of party-political grandstanding. I of money by providing treatment that it would otherwise hope noble Lords agree that that would be a grave have to provide for these officers. Independent reports mistake. It would put the police in obvious difficulties by Robert Gordon University on the efficacy of the as they are, of course, politically neutral, and members PTCs, in 2017 and 2019, suggested that they delivered of the public—to put it mildly—would not like it. a cost benefit of £3.80 for every £1 spent, in terms of value While it is obviously the principal role of a police back to taxpayers, which translated into a saving for and crime commissioner to hold the chief constable in forces and taxpayers of over £16.7 million. In 2019, we their force to account and to ensure that the force is treated 3,777 police patients, of whom 2,935 were efficient, effective and legitimate, there are other major serving officers and others were retirees or day patients. roles that PCCs must treat as seriously. There is the Our excellent CEO, Patrick Cairns MBE, a requirement to protect all from harm, to make people former senior army officer, has commented that from feel secure and to care for victims of crime. This his personal experience, and speaking to thousands of exciting and crucial responsibility can be done only in police patients every year, he believes we deliver career-, partnership with other public bodies: the police, local relationship- and life-saving treatment. Some officers authorities, probation and the health services—not who contemplated taking their own lives have been least the mental health services. Partnership is great helped so successfully that they have credited their and it is our best hope. stay as a turning point in their battle, after suffering 531 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 532 extreme psychological trauma. Officers and patients to take a legal route to the UK. In effect, we are who are entitled to treatment come from all over the saying, “There is no legal route for you and you have United Kingdom. The demand for support from the to take your chances on the back of lorries or in centres increases every year, with a 7% increase in unsafe boats and dinghies”—something the Government attendance from 2018-19 alone. The Government should have been anxious to prevent. The way to prevent it is be putting regular funding into the PTCs, so I hope by opening the doors again to safe and legal routes. the Minister will recognise that this is an exceptional That has been put very clearly by a British writer born charity which enables the return of more police officers to Somali parents in Kenya called Warsan Shire, who to the front line as a result of the intervention and reached the UK at the age of one. She wrote that support given. I hope she will take this proposal back “no one puts their children in a boat to the Secretary of State for consideration. unless the water is safer than the land”. That seems a clear summary of what we should be 6.23 pm about as a country. Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]: My Lords, I congratulate the I turn briefly to the internet safety Bill and related noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, on her maiden speech. measures. It is ironic that at a time when the future of It is always a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, local and national newspapers is in doubt, many are Lady Harris. I want to say something about refugee struggling to survive because online giants such as policy and add a few words, perhaps at the end, about Google and Facebook are paying nothing for news the press and electronic media and, if time allows, a content. It is the social media or online platforms that little bit about delays in the courts. should pay news providers for the news. In 2019, I hope when we get the borders Bill that, as a result Google and Facebook took 80% of the £14 billion of the consultation going on, it will be much improved spent on digital advertising, and national and local compared with the policy statement of last March. news titles took only 4%. The Australian Government My first point is that the Government propose to have shown the way to do it; we should do likewise. discriminate on the basis of how people make their journey to find safety. I believe firmly that the method 6.27 pm of travel should not determine the right to asylum. I further believe that such discrimination would be illegal Baroness Verma (Con): My Lords, I congratulate and a breach of the 1951 Geneva Convention. I am my noble friend Lady Fullbrook on her wonderful assured that this is so by many people, NGOs and the maiden speech today, and my Front-Bench colleagues United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. In on the way they have introduced this debate. any case, the policy would be unworkable. Is there any I will focus on—and make a plea to my Front Bench reason to think that European countries would accept that in bringing these Bills forward they look at—knife the return of asylum seekers who, according our crime. I had a failed attempt to bring a Private Member’s Government, have travelled here by the wrong route? Bill to look at knife crime monitoring; it did not get Can we see the French Government accepting people into the ballot. I hope that I can use these Bills to ask who have come over here on dinghies or in the back of the Government to consider making sure that those a lorry? I do not think so. If that policy—which our who have gone to prison and have been released and Government want—was adopted by all countries, the those who have been cautioned for carrying a knife are accident of geography would mean that Greece, Italy, monitored for at least six months after they have been and Malta would have had to accept thousands, indeed released or cautioned—I think we will get cross-party millions, of people who reached those countries for safety. support. I say this on behalf of all those families whose Obviously, we in this country cannot take all refugees. children have been murdered because of knife crime. I argue, however, that we should take our share of I bring this to the House after speaking to a mother responsibility along with other European countries. who lost her 16 year-old son because he was in the The Government have closed the two main routes for wrong place at the wrong time. A person who had child refugees in Europe, both under my amendment been released from prison and was carrying a knife—he to the 2016 Act and by not seeking to negotiate the had been in prison for knife crime—decided to stab continuation of the family reunion provisions of the this 16 year-old in the heart, and he died. That mother Dublin treaty, which expired at the end of December and her bravery in trying to find support for not just when we left the EU. It is important that the Government herself but other families has moved me to plead with ensure that there are safe routes to the UK for refugees. my Front Bench to have a look at this. Of course, the Government are right in wanting to I do not know how it would work; I am sure that undermine the traffickers, who cause so much misery the clever people that work with Ministers will be able and so many deaths on the seas. It is the absence of to find a route. I hope it will not be a huge cost on safe routes that ensure that the traffickers are kept in resource. However, we owe it to the victims and their business—it is a godsend to them. Clearly, we need families to be able to assure them that people who safe routes for refugees to come into the UK. have committed a crime are at least watched to ensure Secondly, we should give priority to the family that they get the support that they sometimes need, or reunion rights for refugees. What could be a more that the public are protected from another incident fundamental right than the family reunion of people like the one that this lady in Leicester experienced. I who have fled danger in their country? am from Leicester, and Leicester has a high rate of Thirdly, what is to happen to the child refugees who knife crime. So I plead on behalf of all the families are now in northern France or on the Greek islands? undergoing this kind of experience. This lady herself We cannot just say no to them and say that they have has reached out to other parents to see how she could 533 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 534

[BARONESS VERMA] the payment of winnings before payment of operating support them. We should not, however, let people costs, is now a little over £14 billion a year. It might undertake this support among themselves without have risen over lockdown; we shall see. providing support ourselves. That is my plea. Fundamental changes are needed and they will I was not going to touch on this, but having listened have to be enforced. Some changes certainly require to a few other speeches I will finish with a few comments primary legislation. Many important and necessary on migrants. Most migrants do not make the dangerous changes do not, as the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said. journey because they want to. Nobody would want to The Gambling Commission has extensive powers and leave their families behind and come across dangerous it can be required to use them. It is able to control or waters. The Home Secretary is absolutely right to say that prohibit the use of so-called VIP schemes and is we need to deal with this issue. However, I firmly believe beginning to develop provisions based on the difficult that we keep looking at this the wrong way round. Let but important concept of affordability. The 2005 Act us help the countries build their own infrastructures so itself provides machinery enabling the imposition of a that people feel safe to live in their homes in their own statutory levy that could fund research and treatment. countries. That applies to economic migrants. Where Inexplicably, that has not happened yet. there is war and risk to life, the argument is very Primary legislation will probably be required to different. I hope, however, that in the 21st century we create a gambling ombudsman. This is essential. The look at the levelling-up agenda not just in the context ombudsman will have powers to call for documents of the UK. Covid has taught all of us that we are only and information that will bring to light any improper as safe as everyone else is, so we have to help level up exploitation of problem gamblers. The operators will not just in our own country but globally. then be very strongly motivated to act appropriately. To my mind, it is a little troubling that it seems the 6.32 pm online safety Bill will have nothing at all to say about Lord Trevethin and Oaksey (CB) [V]: My Lords, it is gambling. Like the noble Lord, Lord Foster, I hope a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness. I had the that the Minister might be able to address that omission privilege of being on the Select Committee on the in her closing remarks. Social and Economic Impact of the Gambling Industry, which reported in July 2020. I draw attention to my 6.36 pm declaration of interests in that report, in particular to my work as a barrister in the field of claims by Baroness Stowell of Beeston (Non-Afl): My Lords, problem gamblers against gambling operators. I also it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord. I congratulate sit on the executive committee of Peers for Gambling the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, on her maiden Reform. I pay tribute to the work of the noble Lord, speech, and I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson Lord Foster of Bath, as the chair of that body. What I of Tredegar, because this is the first debate I have will say now is a coda to the powerful speech that he spoken in since he joined your Lordships’ House and made a couple of hours ago. has been sitting on the Front Bench. I will focus my The Select Committee report—and, for that matter, remarks on the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, just about everyone who has considered gambling in and the contentious measures in it about protests and the online age—identifies the scale of the problem that demonstrations. I support the Bill and those measures, we now face. The liberalisation of the statutory regime although I regret that they are necessary.I will explain why. that occurred when the Gambling Act 2005 came into Over the past five years, we have experienced a force went too far, even at that point, but in any case series of shocking political events that have exposed online gambling was at an embryonic stage then. how divided our society has become. For me, the most Some noble Lords, but probably not all, may know graphic illustration of that division was the demonstrations that it is now possible to turn one’s smartphone into a and protests in April 2019 that brought parts of central casino within seconds and gamble on virtual slot London to a standstill for several days. To be clear, I machines, poker tables, roulette tables, whatever takes am talking not about the subject of the protesters’ one’s fancy. The only limit, in practice, to the amount demonstrations but about how they went about their that you can wager is the amount that you are able to protest. deposit by debit card. You can play multiple tables or Until then, I think most of us assumed that it was machines. The speed of play is far quicker than anything not possible for people, in the name of any cause, available in the physical world. The games are artfully however noble or important, to block other people’s designed. Most people can resist the temptation and rights of way and to get away with it. The inconvenience gamble safely and enjoyably—and the liberty to do so and cost of the disruption that the protest caused was must be protected—but many cannot. It is not an easy reason enough to be angry, as was the inertia of the thing to measure, but one not implausible estimate is police in the face of such disruption. But what dismayed that there are 2 million problem gamblers in the UK. me was the realisation that common consensus among Realism is required, it seems to me. It is unrealistic law-abiding people was breaking down—the common and unfair, really, to expect gambling operators to consensus that nothing justifies one group of citizens take effective steps to minimise problem gambling. wilfully and deliberately obstructing other law-abiding There is an obvious conflict, which can be briefly people from going about their business. expressed as, “The bigger the problem, the bigger the One thing that has always united the vast majority profit on the bottom line”. The stakes are high for the of us, regardless of our differences, is what is acceptable operators. Gross gambling yield in the UK, which is behaviour in public, including when it comes to how defined as the amount retained by the industry after we protest and demonstrate in support of things we 535 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 536 believe in or are against. My regret is that we now have There is too the incalculable, central importance of to legislate to make something that never used to be in innovation and creativity of design, as the noble Lord, doubt undeniable in law. Lord Bichard, discussed in his excellent speech last Of course, one thing that is still uncertain is whether week. This has also been mentioned by other noble there will be prosecutions or convictions in the light of Lords today.Design is both the bridge and glue between this legislation. Only a month ago, a jury acquitted the arts and sciences. It gets no mention in the build protesters who had caused criminal damage to private back better plan. I raised a concern about design in property, even though the judge directed the jury that education in an Oral Question on industrial strategy there was no defence in law for their actions. I would on 26 April. The noble Lord, Lord Callanan, replied, welcome the Minister’s reaction to that. “design and innovation are going to be key and crucial”.—[Official That brings me back to what has caused this fracture Report, 26/4/21; col. 2065.] in society and why I believe that Parliament has no I agree. If so, there should be greater opportunities to choice but to act. As hard as it may be for some noble study art and design in schools and beyond, not fewer. Lords—and Members in the other place—to accept, This is a strategic priority. the political realignment we are seeing in Britain is in We still need a government-backed Covid insurance part because many voters cannot be sure that people for live events, even at this stage, in mid-May. Festivals such as parliamentarians and political and social are still being cancelled. Hundreds will be cancelled campaigners, who may have different views, stand for without insurance. This will continue beyond the summer, and share the same belief in upholding common standards for events both large and small. In response to my of behaviour which unite all law-abiding people. As Oral Question on 27 April the noble Baroness, regrettable as this legislation may be, it is necessary Lady Barran, said, because these same citizens need us—Parliament—to “we need to be absolutely confident that any scheme would result stand up for them and what unites us with them. in an increase in activity”.—[Official Report, 27/4/21; col. 2146.] The gracious Speech said that the Government will With respect, is that not why we need insurance, legislate to because of the uncertainty which may yet persist? It is “level up opportunities across all parts of the United Kingdom”. required until some form of commercial insurance can I believe that all sides of this House support this goal be made available. This is what Governments are for. but, if we really want to achieve it, we should keep in mind I raise again, as I did last year, the concern over that the inequality and unfairness that people feel is not whether new planning laws, which will encourage only about lack of economic opportunities.It is also about housebuilding and allow freer rein to developers, will the erosion of standards which all of us must uphold if also lead to the closure of community and arts buildings we are all to have an equal opportunity to succeed. and spaces, including studio spaces, arts centres, theatres and music venues, as well as discouraging new spaces. 6.41 pm We need to keep an eye on this. The Earl of Clancarty (CB): My Lords, I too With the continuing destructive effects of Brexit, congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, on the performing arts urgently need a bespoke visa waiver her maiden speech. agreement, additional to the TCA, to be negotiated by It is no surprise that there was no mention of the the noble Lord, Lord Frost, alongside much else that arts and creative industries in the Queen’s Speech, yet I needs to be resolved, including work permits, cabotage wonder if we have not reached a critical juncture in and carnets. These are not teething problems but a their future. This is not just about Covid and the effects direct result of us leaving the single market. The Carry it has had on the arts. Organisations are struggling, on Touring campaign has its online summit on these and many freelancers have still not received any support, concerns on Thursday, and I hope that many Members, despite the welcome—if necessary—recovery fund. This especially Ministers, will attend that important event. is also about the longer-term effects of Brexit, alongside the Government’s stance on the future of skills in this Finally, as recommended in a new report by the country. Writers All-Party Parliamentary Group, we need a creators’ council, whereby many of these concerns can The Government should urgently reconsider the be directly communicated by artists, including freelancers, proposed 50% cut to the funding of higher education to government. This is an excellent idea which has courses in arts subjects. This would be not only disastrous growing support, and I hope that the Government in its own right but destructive in ways the Government take note. may not yet fully appreciate. The arts sector has been unanimous in its condemnation. Andrew Lloyd-Webber 6.46 pm has rightly called the proposals “idiotic and short-sighted”. They are so for a number of reasons, not least because, Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]: My as a society, we should not have to make a choice Lords, in response to the gracious Speech, I shall very between science and technology on the one hand and briefly look at some issues concerning the police. I the arts on the other. As the Incorporated Society of know only too well that policing is an area of public Musicians says in its helpful briefing, it is “a false service that is rarely absent from the headlines; whether dichotomy”. To say that such courses lead to dead-end it be in reality or depicted on film or television, people jobs, as Gavin Williamson put it last week, is quite will have their own perception of what policing is simply wrong. Apart from anything else, the arts really like in the real world. I am often asked whether and creative industries are of great financial worth to “The Sweeney”, “The Bill” or “Line of Duty” are true this country. They are—and should be—considered a to life. I can put your Lordships’ minds at rest: murders significant aspect of its future. do not get solved in an hour and junior officers, as 537 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 538

[LORD MACKENZIE OF FRAMWELLGATE] wanted to cover user-generated pornography, but much much as they would like to, do not arrest senior officers, work had already been completed on the planned handcuff them and march them to the cells through DEA protections, which could have been in place for the office past all their colleagues. It may be good for the last 18 months. ratings, but it is not the real world. This new Bill must deliver, as a minimum, all the It is sometimes said that a country is judged by how Digital Economy Act’s child-protection measures—yet it treats its prisoners. I believe that it is also judged by it leaves unmentioned pornography or age verification. the way in which the police treat the public. In the UK, Can the Minister assure the House, first, that the clear thank goodness, we are policed by consent. This is and unambiguous research showing considerable harms demonstrated—to the astonishment of visitors—by the to children of easy access to pornography will be given fact that in Britain the police are largely unarmed, paramount consideration in this legislation; and, secondly, apart from a baton and sometimes an unlethal taser. that cyber-libertarian ideology, which holds that internet In my days on the beat, other than in large metropolitan regulation is impossible, unworkable and unwanted, areas perhaps, police officers lived in the areas that will not hold sway? they policed; we lived in police houses in villages and Secondly, will the Government’s legislation to ban towns, and local people knew who we were and where conversion therapy extend beyond uncontrovertibly we were. There was often an office attached to the cruel and coercive efforts to change someone’s sexuality house, and we would get to know the locals, particularly or gender, risking criminalising faith leaders, parents the villains. There were no computers then, of course, and friends approached by those who are ambivalent few cars and a paper-based intelligence system, provided and confused, say,about same-sex attraction? In Victoria, by an excellent relationship with law-abiding members Australia, it is illegal to engage in prayer that does not of the community, who often tipped us off. It was affirm same-sex attraction. Yet, ironically, this epitomised by that excellent TV programme a few discriminates against gay Christians who, for deeply years ago, “Heartbeat”, which many of your Lordships held faith-based and other personal reasons, want to will have seen. remain celibate but are, in a cruel twist of coercive Before I am reduced to tears, I shall explain the liberalism, denied support to uphold a freely made point that I am leading to. Policing is not about being decision. Ed Shaw, pastor of Bristol’s Emmanuel City an occupying army exercising force; it is about citizens Centre church describes how the only people exerting in uniform acting on behalf of the community to keep unwelcome pressure on him to change his beliefs and order. I appreciate that society has changed, but I hope behaviour have been that our values have not. We need to get back to “gay Christians who have rejected orthodox church teaching—and community policing where possible, but that requires the wider culture that thinks I am crazy to embrace it.” feet on the ground, visibility and, most of all, approachability. I therefore welcome the previous Thirdly,as a co-founder of the Family Hubs Network, commitment to recruit 20,000 more officers. When I welcome the Government’s commitment both to will that undertaking be completed? In modern Britain, ensure that children have the best start in life, including police officers should also be representative, so could by rolling out family hubs, and to address lost learning the Minister also comment on whether ethnic or racial during the pandemic so that every child’s education minorities are applying to join in sufficient numbers? enables them to fulfil their potential. Speaking as an officer of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Finally, as a training instructor I used to jokingly 22q11 Syndrome, the second most common genetic tell recruits that our customers were always wrong—but syndrome after Down’s,I ask the Minister how educational seriously, unlike in many other organisations, serious catch-up will be achieved where learning difficulties complaints are quite rightly dealt with independently. associated with genetic conditions such as 22q make “Who polices the police?” is an important question. It this far more difficult? is essential that such matters are seen to be dealt with fairly and appropriately, and above all speedily, for the Finally, I welcome the integrating imperative of the benefit of the complainant and of the officer involved. health and care Bill. However, integration cannot mean Some of those investigations can drag on for years to overmedicalisation. If hospitals become the default the detriment of the complainant and the police officer hub for integrated care systems,this could make integrated concerned. In the interests of fairness and justice, can services less, not more, available to those who struggle the Minister assure the House that the Home Office most to travel, such as those on low incomes and those will try to ensure a far quicker turnaround in the with significant childcare responsibilities. Hospitals complaints procedure? are not best placed to deliver social provision with significant health implications, such as family support. In Essex, local family hubs enable prevention by integrating 6.49 pm paediatric health with all the other support families Lord Farmer (Con) [V]: My Lords, I join other need to thrive. noble Lords in congratulating my noble friend Parenting impacts greatly on children’s health and Lady Fullbrook on her fine maiden speech. is a recognised public health issue; well-functioning I will touch on four areas in her Majesty’s gracious couple relationships are associated with many health Speech. First, I share others’ reservations about the gains for adults and help to make families safe, stable online safety Bill repealing Part 3 of the Digital Economy and caring for children. In summary, to be effective for Act: despite its limitations, this would have prevented people rather than systems, integration needs to include children inadvertently seeing online pornography on local support for good-quality relationships and nurture commercial sites. I understand that the Government these health assets. 539 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 540

6.54 pm regulator, Andy Burnham, the noble Lord, Lord King of Lothbury, and Gary Neville. I conclude with a Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]: My Lords, I flavour of what they say: will speak briefly about a DCMS issue that I hope will “Clubs take excessive financial risks to achieve promotion, lead to legislation in the current Session but was not in particularly incurring huge salary commitments. Relegation leaves the Queen’s Speech: the outcome arising from the clubs with parachute payments that temporarily meet unsustainable Government’s decision to establish a fan-based review wages. Competing clubs consequently have to match such wages, of football, chaired by Tracey Crouch MP. Noble creating an inflationary spiral … Stadiums have been sold off for Lords will remember that this was prompted by the commercial exploitation, fit and proper person tests are carried furious reaction of supporters to the monstrous plan out in a weak and inconsistent fashion, fans, the lifeblood of the by the six wealthiest clubs—the majority of them game, feel let down and neglected.” foreign-owned—to break away from the FA Premier This has not changed. League to form the European Super League. 6.59 pm That episode demonstrated the inability of the English game to reform itself. It has been given plenty of Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl): My Lords, I opportunities to do so over the past 30 years, with confess that I felt a frisson of excitement at seeing the numerous reviews of the governance of the Football long-awaited Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Association, and inquiries into racism, hooliganism Bill in the gracious Speech. At last, free speech is on and so much more, but little has happened. The power the agenda. The Bill is a valiant attempt by the balance within the game is flawed, and there is chronic Government to counter the chilling effect of censorship financial disparity and deep-seated unsustainability, on campus and to strengthen the legal duty to uphold with clubs driven out of business and much-loved open debate—hurrah for that. I have some reservations. community assets destroyed, as greedy owners have Will it lead to an overly litigious framework that been allowed to profit from the sale of stadiums, with interferes in institutional autonomy? Can you really supporters ignored or treated with contempt. use fines and threats to guard academic freedom? I am always nervous of outsourcing political battles to lawyers, The European Super League was the latest attempt especially when the problem is less procedural and to concentrate wealth and power in the hands of a more cultural. small number of owners regardless of the disastrous effect on the remaining clubs, but there have been To those who insist that free speech on campus is others, such as Project Big Picture and the proposed hyped-up reactionary scaremongering, tell that the expansion of the UEFA Champions League. In the Lisa Keogh, a law student at Abertay University, facing face of all this, the organisation which is supposed to a career-threatening disciplinary action for discrimination be the governing body of English football, the FA, has for merely arguing biological facts about men and appeared weak and divided, its credibility shot to testosterone and women and vaginas in a seminar on pieces. Vested interests have prevented football speaking feminism. Or say it is exaggerated to the teacher with a united voice. training student at Manchester Metropolitan University who has been threatened with a formal fitness-to-practise I mentioned the succession of reviews that have panel after raising the disgraceful lack of educational attempted to solve these issues. I declare an interest as solidarity shown to the Batley Grammar School teacher I served as vice-chairman of the Football Task Force suspended and forced into hiding, and branded 22 years ago. We attempted to tackle the issues which Islamophobic, for showing a cartoon of the prophet alienated supporters, such as hyperinflating ticket prices Muhammad in a lesson on religious tolerance. and exorbitant prices for merchandise, as clubs declared Campus cancel culture is a real and present danger, themselves businesses and made fortunes for their but I have chosen to speak today because if the shareholder chairmen by floating on the stock market. Government posit themselves as a champion of free The Football Task Force published two reports which speech on campus, I am worried that aspects of two of were broadly accepted, on racism and disabled access, the Bills listed here seriously threaten free expression but the third and final commercial report, which addressed off campus. The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts issues ranging from replica shirts and ticket pricing to Bill gives the police enormous new powers over public the involvement of PLCs in the game, and aimed to space and threatens, I would say, the very purpose of deliver a fair deal for supporters, was strongly opposed protest. It is most likely playing on the popular irritation by the Football Association, the Premier League and with the undoubtedly anti-social, nihilistic and the Football League. In that final report, the majority misanthropic tactics of groups such as Extinction of us made it clear that if football could not reform Rebellion. It focuses on the noisy and disruptive process itself, the Government should legislate and introduce that may cause distress and may inconvenience public statutory regulation. services. In other words, the police could stop any Therefore, I welcome the inclusion, in the terms of protest if assessed as a risk of being too noisy or reference of Tracey Crouch’s review, an assessment of disruptive. The police already have an armoury of the need for an independent football regulator charged draconian powers that frankly, it seems to me, they fail with implementing regulation and compliance, backed to enforce consistently. Is it because of a seemingly by legislation. I am sure that one of the documents that more politicised or partisan police force, or is it confusion she will study will be Manifesto for Change, published about when or how to intervene? The police do not six months ago by a distinguished group that includes need more laws, but better leadership. What the public the former chairman of the FA, David Bernstein, former need is the freedom to demonstrate dissent—from Sports Minister Helen Grant MP, who is promoting a Black Lives Matter supporters to anti-lockdown Private Member’s Bill in the Commons to establish a demonstrators—however unpopular their cause to some. 541 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 542

[BARONESS FOX OF BUCKLEY] I have a quick question for the Minister. If 20,000 Parts of the online safety Bill have united civil football fans can sing “Abide with me” at Wembley, libertarians across left and right, described as why can a socially distanced choir still not sing together? “a frightening and historic attack on freedom of speech.” If, indeed, real value is given to what creativity has The Bill imposes a duty of care on big tech providers brought to this country—not just financially but socially to remove content that is lawful for adults but said to and aesthetically—surely we ought to be securing its be harmful—harmful not in the JS Mill sense, or future by investing in the opportunities and training meaning physical harm, but using concepts stolen that we give to succeeding generations. Yet we seem to straight from the campus safe space canceller’splaybook. be doing quite the reverse. First, disastrously, the arts Harmful is anything assessed as risking came off the national curriculum and, while hubs do a “a significant adverse … psychological impact on an adult of certain amount for music, once again many fall through ordinary sensibilities” the system. Now we are told that there is to be a —whatever that is. This vague and subjective diktat 50% cut in higher education for arts subjects. What are will inevitably mean Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, we to make of that? What do the Government think Instagram being empowered to double down on removing that says about their priorities, in particular for the controversial or offensive views even quicker, and invites less privileged—those who come from disadvantaged platforms to snoop on users more routinely. All of this backgrounds and who we are keen to see level up? is to be enforced by Ofcom, the state regulator that My noble friend Lord Bird potently made my point: this year enlarged the number of protected characteristics, social cohesion improves when people are given the in its hate speech guidance for broadcasters, from four creative means of self-expression. The number of children to 48—a catch-all so large that many speeches in this and young adults who find their way into music, art or place would fall foul of it—creating ever more people who dance because of enlightened exposure at a tender age say they are a victim. That same Ofcom has shamefully is remarkable. Whether it is the London Symphony elided gender critical feminism with transphobic hate Orchestra, a string quartet or Radiohead, the ability speech too often. The Bill also gives Ofcom the power to learn an instrument or read music at school had led to police disinformation or misinformation. That should to our having the musicians and composers who have at least give us some pause, if not chill us. In a brought this country worldwide admiration and income. democratic society, citizens should be free to make up So what of these artists? Frankly, the post-Brexit their own mind whether they trust what they read, agreement, or lack of agreement, on touring is disastrous. sources and so on. We are told that the DCMS is in consultation with The Government boast that the online safety Bill representatives of our cultural organisations, and that will make the UK the safest place to go online. The advice will be offered on how to deal with visas and danger instead is that it makes the UK a world leader work permits for the 27 countries involved. However, in monitoring and sanitising dangerous views online. I that is shutting the stable door after the horses have have heard many eloquent and passionate speeches bolted. We were assured by the Prime Minister that from my noble friends here, opposing laws used to the problem would be sorted, and recent legal scrutiny criminalise protest and free speech, but usually they commissioned by the Incorporated Society of Musicians are talking about other countries, such as Hong Kong suggests that it could and should have been. In fact, no and Zimbabwe. I hope to hear equally compelling visible progress has been made at all. Oliver Dowden’s opposition closer to home, and that the Government statement to the Culture Select Committee last week will resolve their split personality approach. Are they did not, I am afraid, encourage me that we were about free speech champions or world-beating censors? to see any significant change. The rules still vary from country to country. Some only allow up to 14 days’ 7.04 pm stay and we still have no prospect of a solution to the Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]: My Lords, road haulage problem. The Government seem to be congratulations to the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, paralysed, unable or unwilling to help. on a fine maiden speech. I am sorry that we will have I believe, and have been assured, that the truth is to wait for that of the noble Baroness, Lady Fleet. that the EU wanted this vital exchange of ideas and Congratulations too to the Chancellor on the initial performances much more than our Government did, financial interventions he made to try to keep business or do. Let me put it another way: in order to preserve and the arts still standing, but there is pitifully little in the Government’s absolute obsession with their the Queen’s Speech on that desperately challenged immigration red lines,the creative industries and musicians creative industries—in particular music, in which I in particular were sold down the river—a river flowing declare my interest as listed in the register. now towards the open sea where they will doubtless The decision to concentrate the Chancellor’sresources meet the fishermen who feel that they too were sold on existing and proven organisation— understandable unfulfilled promises. in many ways—has left many individuals to fall through the support net. I of course accept that one cannot The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con): The noble please all of the people all of the time but, sadly, a Baroness, Lady Newlove, has withdrawn. I call the confluence of government policies means that we now noble Lord, Lord Mann. have a profoundly worrying outlook for the creative industries, despite the fact that the Government are 7.09 pm always at great pains to point out that they value and Lord Mann (Non-Afl): My Lords, I am enthused by acknowledge the billions of pounds that these industries the fact that the online safety Bill will have pre-legislative generate for the Exchequer. scrutiny. Indeed, I am so enthused that, if the Whips 543 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 544 are listening carefully, I am prepared to offer my arguing over what is and is not acceptable after children services to sit on such a Joint Committee. One of the have suffered harm, and instead seek to tackle risks reasons for that is because I see a weakness in the Bill, inherent in the technology they are offered and make not in its wording but in its structure. It is missing it safe from the get-go. enabling powers to allow civil society to take action Less welcome is the change of language from the over online hatred. It has often been posed that we promised “duty of care” to a list of “duties of care”. need the police to do this or that. Frankly, that is a It is the expectation of parents, teachers and children logistical nonsense when it comes to online abuse and up and down the country that the Bill will introduce a hatred. duty that, both philosophically and legally, requires I cite the example of football. If the perpetrators of the tech sector to think first before it puts its products the racist and other abuse that footballers receive had and services in the hands of children. While specific to have their identity provided by law,the banning orders duties can improve the safety, transparency and fairness that football could bring in would be a far heavier of digital products, it is dangerous to set a path in sanction, in terms of their impact on the behaviour of which each special interest or expert group fights to many individuals, than the fines the courts could include or omit every potential risk. Risks are apply. The football banning orders legislation of, I interconnected and cumulative; they impact on different think, 1989 could be tweaked to add the concept of users in different ways; and they can expand and online harm so that, where there is a criminal conviction contract across different services and across time. We for football-related online crime, a football banning have been promised an end to the “Move fast and order for six to 10 years could be immediately added. break things” culture of the sector, and the Bill must That would have a huge impact on the behaviour of introduce a duty to care as a matter of principle, not a football supporters, both spectators and those online. laundry list of pre-circumscribed duties. Sky television and others, using their own civic powers, could well be persuaded to join in by removing the ability As drafted, the Bill spends the bulk of its pages on of the online abusers even to watch from a distance the rules that pertain to content. This undermines the football that they would be banned from attending. stated ambition to tackle risk at a systemic level, as it That is one example of how civil society could assist. leaves only cursory mention of the algorithms, On the issue of football, I am hearing a lot of talk functionalities and operating practices that drive user from politicians about how, with the European Super experience. No doubt we will revisit this, but before we League, we could potentially emulate Germany.I spend lose ourselves down the rabbit hole of how to police a lot of time working with German football and have content and who owns the truth, we must first ask done for many years. I fully understand the tripartism whether companies are responsible for recommendations that has been in Germany post-war, but it is not as that they monetise. What is the legal status of a simple as people think. People think that there is a company’s published terms and community rules? What 50+1 procedure in German football. If we take the 18 oversight does the regulator need to identify manipulative clubs of the Bundesliga, Volkswagen owns Wolfsburg, nudges, dark patterns or unfair practices? Or—my Leverkusen is owned by Bayer, and Red Bull owns own personal favourite—if a company can confidently Leipzig. Hoffenheim has a wealthy individual who has identify a 14 year-old child to target them with a put in a vast amount of money. That has not been fan Home Office awareness campaign on child abuse, should ownership. Bayern Munich is the classic example: every they simultaneously be able to recommend to the same major German multinational is on its board. That is 14 year-old self-harm content or extreme diets, or where the key decisions are made, not on the supervisory enable adults to direct message them with pornographic board. That is an illusion that some, in particular in material? If the Bill does not take a systemic approach the other House, are running on at the moment. to curbing what have become industry norms, then children will continue to suffer the lack of what in It would be far better to give powers by law to every other industry is simply the price of doing football supporters—I would deem the best definitions business. to be in the football banning orders legislation, which gives definitions; I would use season ticket holders as We have many months to scrutinise every line of the the empowerment group—to allow 75% of football Bill’s 145 pages, but some things cannot wait. Like the season ticket holders in a particular club to veto new right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford, I believe competitions the club goes into, shifts in location and that the Government must ask regulators to bring changes in the registered colour of the club. That forward minimum standards and codes of practice on would give fans what they want. I am sure that could urgent matters such as age assurance, safety by design, be tagged on to some legislation during this Session. child impact assessments and algorithmic oversight, with the stated intention that they will be absorbed 7.14 pm into the Bill, just as they are planning for guidance for video-sharing platforms. We need this Bill badly, but it Baroness Kidron (CB) [V]: My Lords, I draw the is cruel to make children wait years for protections attention of the House to my interests, particularly as they could have now. chair of 5Rights Foundation and deputy chair of the APPG on Digital Regulation and Responsibility. Like There are some startling omissions, some unwelcome others, I welcome the long anticipated online safety exceptions and some shifts in emphasis that we must Bill and the provisions it will make for children. The contest, but ultimately the biggest work of Parliament change in the Bill’s name from “online harms” to will be to ensure the Bill’s enforceability. The current “online safety” reflects the journey the Bill has been matrix of duties and responsibilities of the regulator on, and the widespread acceptance that we must stop are neither fully independent nor properly enforceable, 545 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 546

[BARONESS KIDRON] It is so much more complicated than anything that has and this must change. I understand that there are ever been done to regulate content. Regulating broadcast pressures from all sides, but the UK delivering systemic and radio content has been relatively simple up to change on behalf of UK children that will, over time, now. As the impassioned speech of the noble Baroness, become the new normal for children the world over is Lady Fox, made clear, there will be some extremely a great prize, and it is my sincere wish that that is the complicated and grey areas. prize Her Majesty’s Government have in their sights. Nevertheless, we should not resile from applauding the Government’s ambition to introduce what, in very 7.18 pm simple terms, I think we all want: clear terms and Lord Vaizey of Didcot (Con): My Lords, it is a great conditions for the people who use these platforms and pleasure to take part in this important debate and I clear protection when they are assaulted and attacked begin by congratulating my old friend and now noble on them. To be assaulted, attacked and taken down is friend Lady Fullbrook on her excellent maiden speech—I very different from people expressing their views in an know she will make a fantastic contribution to your open society. It is quite right that protections are put Lordships’ House. I also refer to my entry in the register in place by the platforms and that government and of Members’ interests. My speech will be in two parts. civic society have a role in policing how the platforms In the first one minute and 40 seconds, I intend to go about that. cover culture, and let me say how grateful I am to the Those are my two simple points, and I apologise for Government for the support they have given culture going 17 seconds over my allotted slot. during the pandemic, including the £1.57 billion they have invested in our many cultural institutions and, indeed, for taking a wider definition of a cultural 7.22 pm institution, such as a music venue—something that I Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB): My Lords, I join in have long supported. thecongratulationstothenobleBaroness,LadyFullbrook, I have followed with interest my good friend the on her excellent maiden speech. With her wide Secretary of State’s comments on the anti-woke crusade experience, she will clearly be an asset to your Lordships’ that he and the Government have embarked on. I House. noticed his interesting article in the Sunday Telegraph, For a time I was privileged to be the president of which provoked some thoughts in my head about the Howard League for Penal Reform. That and other levelling up. I think he made a valid point about experience, including my 50 or so years as a criminal having more and varied trustees of museums, but my lawyer, have left me completely unpersuaded that sincere yearning is that he and our cultural institutions increasing sentences and the population of prisons in use the lessons of the pandemic to really lean in—if I general, and filling an ever more challenged prison can use that colloquial expression—to digital. Digital estate, achieves any public good whatever. is no longer an add-on, and the opportunities for our When I was in another place in the 1980s, many of cultural institutions to provide fantastic, in-depth content us were horrified that the prison population had passed for a wide variety of audiences, not just in the UK but 35,000. That horror attracted people in all parties at all across the world, are almost infinite. The UK has a the time. It has now more than doubled, without any huge opportunity to take a lead here, because very few, obvious sign of the country facing less crime, whether if any, cultural institutions around the globe have serious or not. Is the United Kingdom a better place seized this opportunity. because there are now more than 80,000 people in That is my one ask of the Government on the prison? I confidently say no, and there is no intellectual culture front, although I note the excellent remarks basis for saying that it is. made by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley,which resonated I urge Her Majesty’s Government to focus not on because of his enormous, high-tech microphone, both building more prison cells but on creating more and about touring in Europe, which really needs to be constructive opportunities for offenders to achieve a sorted out—we have gone backwards to the situation lawful life without serving time. I commend strongly that still exists with touring in the USA—and about the work already done by the right reverend Prelate the bizarre attack on the arts and humanities in schools the Bishop of Gloucester, who spoke very eloquently and universities. in that regard. Having run 16 seconds over my allotted time on I will add something that I and the noble Lord, culture, I now turn to technology and note the online Lord Ponsonby, agree on—that young offenders should safety Bill, which is due to come to this House. The be able to graduate out of their criminal records. We Government have already received an offer they can heard a wonderful speech earlier from the noble Lord, barely refuse: to have the noble Lord, Lord Mann, on Lord Bird, who has been able to reach your Lordships’ their pre-legislative scrutiny committee. They may well House, which I suppose is some height of achievement, take up that offer, if only to keep the noble Baroness, despite having had a record as a youngster. But most Lady Kidron, from scrutinising the Bill in the way she youngsters do not reach your Lordships’ House. They has scrutinised previous legislation. cannot even get a job because when they apply for a It is quite clear from the remarks made during this job—for example, in the public sector—their old prison debate that this Bill will receive a great deal of expert record is available to those who wish to employ them. attention, not least in your Lordships’House. I say simply Should that really happen to a 30 year-old found that this is novel, new legislation in which the Government guilty of possessing cannabis when he or she was 15 or are attempting—quite rightly, in my view—to put in 16? I think not and I am astonished that the Government place a regulatory structure that is very much needed. have ignored this device over a long period. 547 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 548

I turn next to treason, which has not yet been being recalled. To those who have not read the Prison mentioned in this debate, but does arise from the Reform Trust report No Life, No Freedom, No Future, gracious Speech. The Government wish to restore the recently published with a foreword by myself, I say law of treason in some amended form. It has not been please do so. used since the conviction in 1946 of William Joyce— My last headline point on crime is to deplore, along Lord Haw-Haw, as he was known, although he was with the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, and many others not a Member of your Lordships’ House. The motive here, the Government’s almost invariable reaction to for reintroducing treason is completely oblique and any public concern about some offence, which is to disreputable and the Government must recognise this. increase the statutory maximum. They often introduce It is to avoid—to circumvent—the necessity of proving a statutory minimum and then what follows is always a specific crime or criminal intent by foreign terrorist inflation; the sentences and the prisons get ever more fighters, such as the likes of Shamima Begum. overcrowded, with all the problems that that creates. I regard as extremely serious and reprehensible the The result of all that is ever less opportunity for decisions and actions of British people who become rehabilitation. In the longer term, these longer sentences foreignterroristfighters.ThenobleBaroness,LadyStowell, will produce more crime, not less. What a crazy system mentioned a somewhat eccentric jury decision. It will that is. be nothing compared with a jury faced with the option I will say a word or two on the proposed rebalancing of convicting someone for treason who has been a of the relationship between legislature, Executive and foreign terrorist fighter. Indeed, I have heard it said—I the judiciary. Although as a retired judge I am of may even have said it myself to juries over the years—that course jealous of the judiciary’s role and independence, the most democratic thing most jurors ever do is I take a rather less jaundiced view of the Government’s serving on a jury. They are not going to let it happen in proposals following the Faulks report than some of cases like that. your Lordships who spoke earlier in this debate and As a coda I will add this: both the noble Lord the last Thursday. It seems somewhat absurd to regard the Minister who opened this debate and the noble Baroness setting up of that review and the response to it as a the Minister who will close it are very good listeners. I power grab and revenge for Miller 2. Surely everybody think we should listen to them. During the past year accepts, as I certainly do, the two specific legislative we have had the luxury of voting in huge numbers proposals of the noble Lord, Lord Faulks: to reverse against everything, but we have seen the mandate the Cart—I am afraid I was one of the seven unanimously Government have. I urge your Lordships that we making that mistake, as shown by what has happened should now be responsible and go for the art of the since—and to introduce suspended quashing orders, possible, not the luck of the improbable. which are such a good idea because it is the inflexibility of judicial review that has proved a real problem over the years. The basic position has long been that if any 7.27 pm impugned decision is found unlawful for whatever Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood (CB): My reason, then it is to be regarded as a nullity—nothing done Lords, it is always good to follow my noble friend under it has any effect. That has caused real problems. Lord Carlile, even though it does generally make me I find nothing intrinsically objectionable in the sort feel boringly understated. Before touching on judicial of proposals that the Government are now contemplating reviews, as I hope to have time to do, I want to say a in this consultation process, for things such as prospective- little about the proposed penal legislation. I have time only overrulings, but that, alas, is for another day. for only one or two headline points, really. First, on the question of terrorist offenders, let me 7.33 pm say this: I recognise that they pose particular problems. Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (LD): My Lords, Unlike all other categories of offender, terrorists are I too congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, driven ideologically; their very purpose in life is to on her eloquent maiden speech, and look forward to commit murder and mayhem and on entering prison future debates with her. In winding up this wide-ranging their sole wish is to be discharged so that they can and challenging debate, I will concentrate on the resume those activities. They have absolutely no intention proposals on justice, with some points on home affairs, of being reformed or rehabilitated so their tendency is although I will not try to add to what my noble friends to feign reform, and we have seen an appalling illustration Lord Paddick, Lady Bonham-Carter and Lord Clement- of that recently. In their case, therefore, life sentences Jones said on culture and digital media, and their and indeterminate sentences seem to be altogether great importance to our well-being and economy. more acceptable and logical than in the case of other Summarising the philosophy of our response to offenders. the Government’s proposals, today’s speeches from That said, like others, I say that the UK imposes far these Benches have been marked by a commitment to too many indeterminate and long sentences overall. security and safety through freedom, the rule of law We impose more indeterminate sentences than all the and compassion. As a society, we are more secure and other countries of the Council of Europe put together. safer if we respond to crime with a strong emphasis on The most egregious of these, as I have said many times prevention, real support for victims and the reform in this Chamber, are the IPP sentences. That scheme and rehabilitation of offenders. We are better governed was abolished and discredited in 2012 and yet there if the Government are accountable in the courts for are still nearly 2,000 people detained under it, almost unlawful action; we are protected from abuse of power every one of whom is years beyond their tariff terms, by our right to protest—witness Myanmar, Hong Kong and ever larger numbers of those released are now and many others. 549 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 550

[LORD MARKS OF HENLEY-ON-THAMES] However,the Bill now proposed is limited to introducing This approach is at the heart of the widely applauded suspended quashing orders and to ending Cart JRs in Domestic Abuse Act, and the draft victims Bill, ably which the High Court reviews Upper Tribunal decisions. introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, I agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown has the potential for a similar achievement. We have of Eaton-under-Heywood, that suspending quashing long campaigned for the victims’ code to be given the orders will sensibly allow time for government to full force of law,and we are heartened by the commitment correct irregularities before implementing decisions, to address violence against women and girls. rather than quashing them immediately. My original However, we do not approach the Police, Crime, reaction to the proposal to reverse the Cart decision Sentencing and Courts Bill with the same confidence. was sympathetic, but I now rather doubt that the Hostile reaction to date has largely focused on the Government’s evidence on this stands up, so I look proposed restrictions of the right to protest. Even the forward to debating the issue further in due course. language of the government briefing has sinister overtones: However, our greater concern, persuasively expressed “Balancing the rights of protesters with the rights of others to by the noble and learned Lords, Lord Hope and go about their business unhindered, by enabling the police to Lord Woolf, my noble friends Lord Thomas of Gresford better manage highly disruptive protests.” and Lord Beith and the noble Baroness,Lady Chakrabarti, The danger is that passivity and compliance may be is that the language of the Queen’s Speech heralds a encouraged by a disciplinarian Government at the far wider reform of judicial review. The noble Lord, expense of legitimate, if noisy, protest against injustice Lord Faulks, and his distinguished panel carried out a or abuse of power.The noble Baroness,Lady Chakrabarti, thorough and principled review of administrative law forcefully supported this position. At best, the Bill is and effectively found that, in general, our system does an overreaction to occasional unacceptable behaviour not need radical overhaul, as the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, by protestors, which is probably illegal at present confirmed today. An attack on JR would threaten the anyway—a point also made by the noble Baroness, rule of law and would be an unacceptable political Lady Fox of Buckley. response to a mistaken criticism of alleged judicial In the Bill, the Government’s consistent emphasis overreach, largely fuelled by the Government’s reaction on the so-called tough crackdown, longer sentences to the Miller decisions. and increased police powers never falters. But there is On the proposed sovereign borders Bill, making nothing in the Bill to improve our national performance asylum claims inadmissible for illegal entrants sounds, in preventing crime or on reform, rehabilitation and at first blush, justifiable. It is not. This proposal ignores reducing reoffending, except for a dubious commitment the fact that many who run untold risks, sustain all to a new form of secure schools, which is unsupported manner of hardship and finally manage to find their by solid evidence or the necessary resources. There is way here, albeit illegally, have had no possible means also nothing to address the de facto discrimination of securing the visas that they would have required to against black and ethnic minorities, particularly young enter legally.Without a workable and humane proposal men. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Gloucester for safe and legal methods of entry, as called for by the made these points eloquently, and my noble friends noble Lord, Lord Dubs, this proposal would erect a Lord Dholakia and Lord Paddick, the noble Lords, barred gate against many who deserve our compassion Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick and Lord Carlile of and our welcome. We have a long tradition of offering Berriew, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of sanctuary to the persecuted and to refugees. We are The Shaws, all spoke of the inhumanity and overcrowding not talking only of justifiably outlawing people-smugglers of our prisons and the disgraceful state they are in. but of making the grant of asylum dependent on The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, also spoke of the authorised legal entry. On this issue, I strongly agree desecration of our probation services. A number of with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, the noble noble Lords mentioned the welcome commitment to a Lord, Lord Blunkett, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones police covenant report on police welfare, including my of Moulsecoomb, whose passion on it I share. noble friend Lady Harris, who spoke of police treatment As we witness the horrifying rise in anti-Semitism centres. here and abroad, we should remember that welcoming We wanted a commitment from the Government the oppressed demonstrates our civilisation and our for a strong and wide-ranging anti-fraud measure to compassion. By shutting our doors to the oppressed attack online fraud and scamming, as recommended we side with their oppressors. I would add that, for all by the Government’s economic crime plan in 2019. the elegance of his language and his clearly good The noble Lord, Lord Vaux of Harrowden, concentrated intentions, we profoundly disagree with the approach on this point, and it was covered by my noble friend of the noble Lord, Lord Green of Deddington, to Lord McNally and the noble Viscount, Lord Goschen. immigration and changes in the ethnic make-up of As the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, said, the limited U-turn our society, which we believe do not weaken this nation on this issue in the online safety Bill goes nowhere but enrich and enhance it, just as the noble Lord, near tackling this scourge of contemporary life—an Lord Dobbs, described. epidemic, as the noble Viscount called it. The Government’s plans for reform of the Mental Turning to the judicial review Bill, the Queen’s Health Act are welcome, particularly the proposals to Speech promises to reform the process of mental health detention, to deal “strengthen and renew democracy and the constitution”, more humanely with autistic people and to improve and promises legislation to the management of offenders with mental disorders. “restore the balance of power between the executive, legislature This is all in line with concerns long expressed from all and the courts.” around this House. 551 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 552

Finally, I add to what the noble and learned Lord, every night on my way home. As a kid from a council Lord Garnier, said last Wednesday on the subject of estate, not only have I attended concerts there but I criminalising coercive and controlling behaviour by have played there many times. That was thanks to a charlatan counsellors or so-called psychotherapists wonderful teacher at a school I went to, Franz Busuttil. who peddle their services to take over the lives of I agree with the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, when troubled young people, implant false memories of abuse he draws attention to the plight of freelancers. This is by parents and families during childhood and create a a group of people who have not been looked after at dependence on themselves, alienating these vulnerable all in the pandemic, and lots of them have now gone young adults from their parents and families in a into other areas of work. We run the risk that they will damaging cycle of coercive control over their lives. never be able to return to their professions, in which The noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, highlighted case we, the country and our economy will lose. It many years of parliamentary endeavour on this subject, really is not good. Noble Lords’ contributions about thwarted not by principle but by the “wrong Bill” the insurance cover for live events are also something argument—an argument that we should abhor. We that the Government need to listen to. also want to see a professional register that would support genuine professionals and their status, and I was interested to hear the comments from the encourage potential clients to seek help only from noble Lord, Lord Pickles. He spoke about proposals properly registered professionals. This is, perhaps, a for postal and proxy voting. I am afraid that I take the small issue, but it is one on which this House has a view of my noble friend Lord Blunkett on these matters. great contribution to make. The Government should I would be a bit more convinced of the intention of be in no doubt that many, throughout the House, feel the Government if I had heard what we are going to strongly on these issues. This will give rise to amendments do about the 8 million people who are not on the to the proposed legislation, and will not go away. register, but there has not been a word about them. I want to hear how the people in our country who do 7.43 pm not have a vote are going to get one, so when that Bill Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op): My Lords, comes here we are going to look carefully at that issue. this has been an excellent debate, one that has included The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, many speeches that are thoughtful, inquisitive and carried over from the last Session, contains provisions questioning of the Government. I congratulate the that the Labour Party not only supports but has noble Baroness, Lady Fullbrook, on her excellent maiden campaigned for. That includes the police covenant—but speech. She speaks with experience of the other place the covenant must mean a real step change in support and of local government and I look forward to future and protection for police officers—and the increase in debate with her. In a debate that addresses the safety sentences for assaults on emergency workers. Wesupport and security of our nation and its citizens, I pay the measures in the Bill on causing death by dangerous tribute to the police, the other emergency services and driving and on the extension of protection for young all those who keep us safe in their many jobs and roles people under the age of 18 against those who want to in these vital areas of work. have sexual relations with them. We will want to In my contribution, I intend not only to look at explore how we can widen the scope to maximise the home affairs matters but to refer to contributions that protections for young people.Wewelcome other elements, noble Lords have made on a number of other issues such as the recognition that the remand of children today. The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, rightly drew must be used as a last resort and the reform of the attention to the lack of support for artists and musicians, criminal records disclosure regime. However, there are and the failure to get them proper access to the European elements of the Bill in respect of protest and the Union. That is damaging for our economy and for a Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities that we have sector that brings billions of pounds into the UK. considerable concerns about, and we will seek to examine I agree with every word of the contributions by the them fully and possibly amend them when we debate noble Baronesses, Lady Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury them in the House. and Lady Bull, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh of On the counter-state threats Bill, we on these Benches Hudnall. We have wonderful arts and cultural offerings want to see measures in place that give our law here in the UK. I am proud that, when I was a young enforcement and scrutiny agencies the tools that they councillor in 1986, my first vote on Southwark Council need to keep us safe. I agree with the noble Baroness, was to end the ridiculous dispute with Sam Wanamaker Lady Manningham-Buller, that we need laws that are and get the Globe Theatre built. Anyone who knows balanced and fit for purpose in order to combat the the Bankside area knows that it has been transformed threats that we face from hostile states. Wehave a serious by the arrival of the Globe, with the plays of our problem here that needs to be tackled: dirty money greatest playwright being performed where he himself flowing into London; property being bought from states, performed them in the 16th century. despots and other individuals so that they can hide The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley of Knighton, spoke their money, their ill-gotten gains, in a safe jurisdiction; about the number of young people who have learned attempts to undermine our democracy, which the to read music and to play a musical instrument and Government have done very little about; and people who have had their eyes opened to the wonderful poisoned and murdered on our streets. The Intelligence world before them. I was not good enough to play and Security Committee’s report on Russia exposed professionally, but I learned to play an instrument and the weakness of the Government’s approach, illustrating to read music, and that has given me a lifelong love of how badly the Government have done in underestimating classical music. I walk past the Royal Festival Hall the threats posed and the response required. 553 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 554

[LORD KENNEDY OF SOUTHWARK] Baroness, Lady Williams of Trafford, will be able to My noble friends Lord Faulkner of Worcester and set out what the proposals in the Queen’s Speech will Lord Mann raised the issue of football. We need to deliver. We need some clarity there. The noble Lord, give fans much more influence and power regarding Lord Rogan, made reference to the Ballymurphy families, their local football clubs. Local clubs are the lifeblood who fought for justice for five decades. His description— of their communities—I have supported Millwall my that they received the official government apology whole life and the Millwall Community Trust is a from the Prime Minister by email—is appalling, and fantastic organisation; Sean Daly’s team has done contrasts poorly with the way David Cameron apologised really good work there. Football club community trusts to victims following the publication of the Bloody all over the country are key parts of their communities, Sunday inquiry reports. and we need to support them in the work that they do. The online harms Bill is very welcome as far as it The Government’s announcement of a strategy to goes, but it has taken a long time to get this far. We are combat violence against women and girls is welcome, still talking about only a draft Bill, as my noble friend but there is no timescale and many of the measures Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede made reference to. I very listed have already been brought into force so it would much support the aims of the Government to make be good if the Minister could tell us more about what the UK the safest place in the world to be online, with is proposed and give us some sense of the timescale no safe space for criminal conduct or activity, to that the Government are working to, because that is protect children from abuse, to protect us all from not very clear from the papers released so far. We on scams, to protect us all from fake news, misinformation these Benches want to support the Government in and disinformation, and to make platforms face up to tackling this huge problem in our society. their responsibilities. Every time action is called for, We support measures to give victims stronger rights, the missing piece is the platform—the host not doing although I note that the Bill coming before us is a enough to tackle the menace that is the awful, corrosive, draft Bill. While it is good to carefully consider proposals, illegal and criminal side of the internet. this is taking a very long time. I hope that in this As my noble friend Lord Ponsonby said, the decision Session we can make some real progress. of the Government to hold back on criminal sanctions for directors is most regrettable. The most direct way I have lost count of the number of immigration to get powerful executives to take some action is to Bills we have had since I joined this House in 2010. place responsibility firmly in their laps. Their frequency seems to be one in every Queen’s Look at the damage that has been done to people’s Speech. It is matched only by the frequency of planning health and safety by conspiracy theories—the absolute Bills. What this tells me is that we have a Government rubbish that has undermined the Covid vaccination who talk tough but who fail to deliver on the pledges programme around the world. The reality is that they have made, and who preside over an incompetent vaccination is the only way out of the pandemic, not and chaotic system, all of their own making. No one just in the UK; we need the whole world vaccinated. That can suggest that the Windrush Compensation Scheme is the route of safety to get us all back to something is going well. Look at the dangerous situation we have that represents the normality that we were used to. in the English Channel. Where is that comprehensive deal they keep talking about with France? What about We need urgent progress in this Session; we need a the closure of the Dubs scheme, where only a few bold vision for safety, security and the protection of children have been beneficiaries? This is not the way to our citizens, putting measures in place to give people tackle these issues. I accept that they are challenging, the confidence to thrive. What we get from the but the solutions should be underpinned by agreement, Government falls far short of that; it is particularly firmness, fairness, competence and compassion, none frustrating and disappointing to see proposals that are of which is on display if we look at the proposals from welcome but where the pace of change and reform is the Government today. so slow. The draft victims Bill and the draft online harms Bill are two examples of where the Government The noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, have dragged their feet on proposals which we all made reference to the need to update the law to combat agree are urgent and necessary. modern slavery. I agree with those calls for change. In conclusion, there are measures that we support I further add to the calls made by the noble Lord, but where we want the Government to go further, and Lord McColl of Dulwich, who is not in his place, to there are others that we have grave concerns about. do more for victims. That is exactly right. When that However, as we always do, on these Benches we will Bill comes forward again, I hope that the Government work constructively with the Government to improve look at those calls. If we can only match what has been the legislation that comes before us. done in Scotland and in Northern Ireland on these matters, we will be doing a good job. The noble Lord, Lord Morrow, who is also not in his place, made a 7.55 pm great contribution to improving the laws there in Northern The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams Ireland. of Trafford) (Con): My Lords, I thank all, I think, In terms of legacy issues, the Government must 69 noble Lords who have taken part in this debate on honour their commitments made to families and to Her Majesty’s gracious Speech. It covers three ministries victims. People need to learn the truth of what happened —Justice, Home Affairs and the Department for Digital, to their loved ones. The process must be rooted in the Culture, Media and Sport—and naturally I shall not rule of law and based on support for victims and be able to cover every detail of every last question. communities in Northern Ireland. I hope that the noble However,I shall cover the majority of the themes debated. 555 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 556

I join noble Lords from across the House in protection and support for families. We will establish a commending my noble friend Lady Fullbrook on her robust governance structure, made up of key policing maiden speech. The two of us go back a long way; we representatives who will work with us to develop a are that rare breed, still—former women who have well-defined programme of work. been in charge of local government. Sorry, we are not The noble Lord, Lord Beith, talked about offenders former women—we are women. [Laughter.] We are still referred to the Parole Board under PSCE powers, who women, but we used to be in charge of local government. will have to prove that they did not commit an offence Sorry, it has been a long day. to a lower burden of proof and not through a court. Before I respond to some of the points raised, I There is a small number of prisoners convicted of emphasise that at the heart of this Government’s agenda non-terrorism offences who would present a threat if is an unwavering commitment, including to delivering released. The power contained in the Bill addresses for the public, ensuring that we have a world-class this gap in legislation. It will mean that the Secretary justice system that works for everyone in society,enriches of State can prevent their automatic release and take lives and keeps the country safe. available evidence to the Parole Board for them to assess the risk independently. Where this power is used, these I turn first to the theme of the police, courts and offenders will be detained lawfully, pursuant to the victims. The noble Lords, Lord Ponsonby, Lord McCrea authority of the original prison sentence imposed by and Lord Kennedy of Southwark, the right reverend the court. Prelate the Bishop of Manchester, my noble friend Lady Stowell of Beeston, and the noble Baronesses, My noble friends Lady Fullbrook and Lord Goschen Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb and Lady Chakrabarti, talked about unauthorised encampments. Let me make all talked about the PCSC Bill, its unintended it clear that enforcement will not be based on ethnicity. consequences, police resourcing and protest. I say As my noble friend Lady Fullbrook fully outlined, the right at the outset that the right to peaceful protest is new offence and the amendments will apply to anyone fundamental to us as a society and should never be in residing in a vehicle without permission and causing question. I assure noble Lords that the measures in the harm within the conditions specified. Bill will not suppress the right to peaceful protest My noble friend Lord Moynihan mentioned a position but will enable the police better to manage highly of trust. This was of most concern during our review disruptive protests—we all know examples of them— of the law. which infringe on the rights of others. These very disruptive tactics are a drain on public funds and The noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, talked about the require police officers from around the country to step criminal justice recovery plan, including the courts away from their regular responsibilities to police a backlog. This Government had begun to increase sitting protest instead. The measures in the Bill have been days in the criminal courts to address rising demand. endorsed by the independent policing inspectorate, Covid prevented us making this change and brought which has said that they would its own challenges, particularly in facilitating jury trials. Having invested more than a quarter of a billion “improve police effectiveness without eroding the right to protest”. pounds on court recovery,we have expanded Crown Court The noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, talked about stop and capacity and opened 60 new Nightingale courtrooms. search, and I have heard concerns about disproportionality We are also determined to build confidence in the and the impact of stop and search on members of the system, which is whywe have increased funding for support black community. Our aim is for these orders to enable services. We are also working with partners to reduce the police to take a more targeted approach, specifically the time spent at each stage of the criminal justice process. in relation to known knife carriers. Data from 2018-19 An end-to-end review, exploring how the criminal indicates that young black people are 24 times more justice system responds to rape is to be published likely to be victims of homicide than young white shortly, along with an action plan to drive improvement people. It is vital therefore that we build an understanding for rape victims. of the impact and effectiveness of the new orders, so At this juncture, I thought I might respond to the they will be piloted before being rolled out across noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, on a VAWG timetable. We England and Wales. have a continuing commitment to tackling violence My noble friend Lady Verma talked about people against women and girls and domestic abuse. We will convicted of serious weapons offences and how the police publish new strategies this year to help drive a step change can monitor them. The measures in the Bill build on in the response to these crimes, building on the existing the Government’s record to date, including putting an landmark legislation in this area—the Domestic extra 8,700 police officers on our streets and making Abuse Act and the Police, Crime, Sentencing and £130 million available to tackle serious violent crime, Courts Bill. including murder and knife crime. The new serious violence reduction orders will give the police powers The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Gloucester to stop and search those convicted of offensive weapons referred to the victims Bill and particularly the extent offences. of female offender provision. We are making good progress in delivering the female offender strategy The noble Baroness, Lady Harris of Richmond, which includes piloting at least five residential women’s talked about injured officers. Through the consultation, centres. We have invested £5.1 million in 30 different we have identified three focus areas in the police covenant: women’s community services across England and Wales, health and well-being—encompassing a wide range of supporting service provision and the development of issues including both physical and mental health—physical new women’s centres. 557 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 558

[BARONESS WILLIAMS OF TRAFFORD] provider, the Language Shop, and will be removed The noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, the noble from the register if they fail to reach the required Lords, Lord Thomas of Gresford and Lord Beith, and standard. my noble friend Lord Faulks talked about judicial review, On culture, media and charities, the noble Baronesses, the courts Bill and the different views on it. Our Lady McIntosh and Lady Bull, my noble friends constitution is a noble thing which must be preserved. Lord Moynihan, Lady Stowell and Lord Vaizey of In our manifesto this Government committed to Didcot, the noble Lords, Lord Bird and Lord Berkeley examining in depth how judicial review was working. of Knighton, and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, Having done so, we believe there is a need to restore talked about cuts to arts and higher education funding. the right balance between our institutions of state— We are not cutting overall arts funding by 50%, as Parliament, the judiciary and the Executive. some have suggested. The Government have asked the The noble Lord, Lord Faulks QC, and the panel Office for Students to reform the strategic priorities produced an excellent report and it is the Government’s grant for 2021-22, which will help to correct discrepancies opinion that the analysis in the report of trends in that have seen, for example, media students funded at judicial review gives cause for concern. There are areas a higher rate than mathematics or history students. where there is a balance to be struck in terms of how For providers losing funding due to this reallocation, judicial review operates. As the Lord Chancellor set the income lost would account for approximately 0.05% of out in the judicial review consultation document, the their estimated total income, based on the latest data Government are committed to upholding the rule of available. law. This means the courts should and will be able to The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, and the noble Baroness, hold the Government to account in the manner set out Lady Bonham-Carter, talked about touring performers. by Parliament, and the proposals set out in the The UK’s creative industries are the finest in the Government’s response to the review bear that out. world, and this Government are determined to support The noble Lords, Lord Ponsonsby and Lord Thomas them. Touring is a vital part of musicians’and performers’ of Gresford, questioned the use of ouster clauses. The careers, providing not only a vital income stream but Independent Review of Administrative Law panel enriching opportunities for cultural exchange across concluded in its report that while Parliament should the world. Being outside the European Union does not exclude judicial review generally as that would be not change this, but it means practical changes on contrary to the rule of law, it could in particular both sides of the channel, which will require understanding circumstances oust or limit the jurisdiction of the and adaptation. As the Prime Minister has said, we courts if there was are working flat out with the industry, including through “sufficient justification for doing so.” the DCMS-led working group, on plans to support the As such, the Government felt it was appropriate to creative sectors to tour in Europe. The Government consider this point further in their consultation and to are committed to supporting our world-beating creative see whether it may be possible to add clarity to the and cultural sectors through these changes. circumstances in which ouster clauses may be upheld My noble friend Lord Black talked about journalists’ or how they may be interpreted. We will set out the reporting. Again, press freedom is an integral part of contents of the Bill in due course. the UK’s democratic processes. However, the Act is in The noble Lord, Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick, need of legislative reform, as identified by the Law suggested that the royal commission was going to be Commission. The Government are committed to ensuring scrapped. Establishing the royal commission on criminal that the right balance is struck between protecting justice process remains a priority for the Government. press freedoms, the ability of whistleblowers to hold An independent review provides a meaningful opportunity organisations to account when there are allegations of to explore some of the key challenges affecting the serious wrongdoing and adopting measures that protect system and to consider how these can be addressed to the UK’s most sensitive information. ensure the effective delivery of justice for victims, The noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, asked about witnesses, defendants and the general public. We are governance, in reference to the charities Bill. These considering the precise scope, terms of reference, reforms will enable charities to use their money and membership and timing, and we will of course update resources more effectively to promote their charitable the House in due course. causes. This is just one of many measures that have The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, talked supported the charity and voluntary sector, including about jurisdiction shopping for judicial review in Scotland. an unprecedented £750 million funding package The Government are committed to respecting the specifically for the sector and access to cross-economy devolved Administrations and we will work closely measures, including the Coronavirus Job Retention with the devolved Governments as our thinking develops. Scheme. These changes are not cutting regulation but The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, talked about refining and rebalancing it so that it works better. In the provision of interpreters and asked to meet my developing these proposals, the Law Commission has noble friend Lord Wolfson, which he is very happy to ensured that important safeguards are retained to do. Court interpreters should be appointed only from protect public trust and confidence. the national register. We are absolutely committed to On online safety, the right reverend Prelate the continually improving performance and ensuring the Bishop of Oxford and the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, highest standard of language services for those who asked about the delay to the online harms Bill. I agree need them. All interpreters provided to the courts are that it is taking a long time, but it is important that the registered and regularly assessed by the quality assurance Government get it right. We have taken a deliberately 559 Queen’s Speech [18 MAY 2021] Queen’s Speech 560 consultative approach with a wide range of groups, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, from children’s charities to the platforms themselves, asked about immigration. Through our New Plan for to ensure that the legislation is as effective as it can be. Immigration, we will reform the system so it is firm but We are working closely with Ofcom to ensure that fair. We want to welcome those who come to the the implementation period that will be necessary, UK through safe and legal routes, and to crack down following the passage of the legislation, is as short as on criminal gangs that facilitate dangerous and possible. illegal journeys. An asylum system should not reward The noble Baroness, Lady Bull, the noble Lord, those who enter the UK illegally while other Lord Stevenson, and others talked about the freedom vulnerable people, including women and children, are of speech element in the online harms Bill and determining pushed aside. what is harmful content. One of the overarching principles The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, pressed me on where of our framework is to protect users’ rights to freedom we are with the Dubs scheme. That scheme was defined of expression online. Both companies and Ofcom will and is now complete; it is not the only route, by a long have duties to protect free speech, for which they can shot, by which people can get safe passage to this be held to account. This Bill holds platforms to account country. We cannot help all the estimated 80 million for their significant influence over what content appears people who are displaced worldwide, but global Britain online. Platforms must consider and introduce safeguards will continue to show global leadership, welcoming those for freedom of expression when setting out their safety most in need. We will prioritise resettling refugees from policies. areas of conflict and instability, rather than those who The Bill will define three categories of harm to are already in safe European countries. We will maintain individuals: illegal content, content that is harmful to clear,well-defined routes for refugees in need of protection, children and legal content that is harmful to adults. In ensuring that refugees have the freedom to succeed secondary legislation, the Government will then set and the ability to integrate and contribute fully to out priority harms on which companies must focus society when they arrive in the UK. their efforts. These will be determined based on evidence The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, the noble and of harm to individuals: Ofcom will advise government learned Lord, Lord Hope, and the noble Lord, on which priority harms should be included in legislation, Lord Dubs, asked about our international obligations based on research and consultation with a broad and returns agreements. This legislation will be range of stakeholders. compliant with our international obligations, including The noble Lord, Lord McNally, and others talked the European Convention on Human Rights and the 1951 about child pornography. The strongest protections in refugee convention. We will continue to pursue returns our online harms proposals are for children. All companies agreements and arrangements with our international in scope of this regulation will need to seriously consider partners as part of future migration partnerships. We the risks that they may pose to children and take expect our international partners to work with us on action. Pornography sites will be subject to the duty of facilitating the return of their nationals to their own care if they host user-generated content or facilitate country where those nationals have no lawful right to user interaction. remain in the UK. This is an established principle of The noble Lord, Lord Vaux, and others talked any functioning migration relationship and it enables about fraud. We are deeply concerned about the growth us to maintain public confidence in our immigration and scale of online fraud and the devastating societal, system. We are very proud of our record on providing financial and psychological impact that it can have on refuge to those fleeing conflict or persecution. It has so many people. We have engaged extensively with a seen 29,000 family reunion visas issued in the last broad range of stakeholders, including the financial five years, with more than half of those issued to industry, consumer groups, law enforcement and other children. public bodies. We have listened to their views very I am aware that I am probably over time, but I carefully and decided that online fraud should be assure noble Lords that I will be finished very shortly. included in the scope of the online safety Bill. I want to mention a final point supported by the noble The noble Lords, Lord Foster of Bath, Lord McNally Lord, Lord Kennedy, and the noble Baroness, and Lord Trevethin and Oaksey, asked about online Lady Manningham-Buller, about countering hostile gambling. The online harms regulatory framework state activity. As they both said, it is vital that the will not seek to tackle gambling-related harm online. security services and law enforcement agencies have We have committed to a review of the Gambling Act the tools they need to disrupt state threats. It is something to make sure that it is fit for the digital age and have we have been looking at for some time, to ensure that received around 16,000 submissions to the call for we have the powers we need to tackle future threats evidence ahead of a planned White Paper. The noble and evolving tactics. A significant proportion of Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, asked about data governance. the Official Secrets Act dates back to the early The UK now controls our own data protection laws 20th century, with roots in an 1889 Act. They are not and regulations in line with our interests after the end suitable for the modern world, as the story of the of the transition period. We will continue to operate a squirrels in the tree that the noble Baroness told us high-quality regime that promotes growth and innovation demonstrated. and underpins the trustworthy use of data. I will stop there because I am well over time. I The noble Lords, Lord Green of Deddington, absolutely support the points that the noble Baroness, Lord Paddick, Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames Lady Kennedy of The Shaws,the noble Lords,Lord Smith and Lord Dubs, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, and Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, and the 561 Queen’s Speech [LORDS] Queen’s Speech 562

[BARONESS WILLIAMS OF TRAFFORD] I apologise for going almost five minutes over time. right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester made I thank all noble Lords. There are issues that I have on conversion therapy; and that my noble friend not responded to—such as the Northern Ireland issue Lord Pickles made on voter fraud and identity at polling that the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, mentioned—and stations. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Jay, and my I will do so in writing. noble friend Lord Arran that assisted dying is one of those things on which there is a free vote in Debate adjourned until tomorrow. Parliament, and I am sure there will be another debate on it soon. House adjourned at 8.21 pm. GC 39 Arrangement of Business[18 MAY 2021] Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021 GC 40

Grand Committee and infrastructure services. The phased introduction of controls prioritises flow at the border and gives Tuesday 18 May 2021 business and industry the necessary time to prepare for the full controls regime. It supports international The Grand Committee met in a hybrid proceeding. trade and mitigates border disruption. Those regulations, made and brought into force in late 2020, set out phasing provisions in a number of separate instruments Arrangement of Business governing official controls, trade in animals and related Announcement products, and plant health, including provisions to introduce a first tranche of border controls for some 2.30 pm specific plants and animal product commodities from 1 April 2021. The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Healy of Primrose Hill) (Lab): My Lords, the hybrid On 11 March 2021, the EU Exit Operations Cabinet Grand Committee will now begin. Some Members are Committee agreed that the dates for the introduction here in person, others are participating remotely, but of these phased SPS border control checks should be all Members will be treated equally. I ask Members in extended while businesses are still dealing with the the Room to respect social distancing. If the capacity ongoing impacts of the coronavirus pandemic, which of the Committee Room is exceeded or other safety have significantly outlasted the estimates made in the requirements are breached, I will immediately adjourn third quarter of 2020, when the instruments in question the Committee. were being drafted. We are therefore now amending the original regulations to revise the planned dates for the ongoing introduction of phased controls. We must Trade and Official Controls (Transitional ensure that these transitional provisions are reasonable Arrangements for Prior Notifications) and operable during and after the protracted period in which businesses and border operations continue to (Amendment) Regulations 2021 be adversely affected by the coronavirus pandemic. Considered in Grand Committee This phasing adjustment will enable businesses to familiarise themselves with the new SPS requirements 2.31 pm and migrate to new IT systems. It will ensure that Moved by Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park necessary infrastructure and processes are in place at border control points, further minimising the risk of any disruption. We will, in due course, introduce a The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, further instrument to reset the later phases of import Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth controls. and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond As a whole, these regulations will ensure that we Park) (Con) [V]: My Lords, there are two instruments continue to deliver robust, effective controls and checks in the group before you, both of which address on all food, animal and plant imports. This instrument requirements for the movement of goods subject to does not introduce any policy changes, and the devolved UK sanitary and phytosanitary controls. I will speak Administrations have given their consent for these to each in turn. regulations to apply to the whole of Great Britain. We The first is the Trade and Official Controls (Transitional remain fully committed to the World Trade Organization Arrangements for Prior Notifications) (Amendment) and to our international trade obligations. Regulations 2021. This instrument delays the introduction of control measures for specific plant and animal I now turn to the second instrument. The Plant product commodities. The EU exit regulations amended Health etc. (Miscellaneous Fees) (Amendment) (England) by this instrument addressed official controls on imports Regulations 2021 provides a fee exemption for to Great Britain of animals and animal products, and phytosanitary certificates for exporting or re-exporting plants and plant products, including food and other goods from England to Northern Ireland by amending imports relevant to the agri-food chain, collectively certain fee regulations. These regulations set fees for known as sanitary and phytosanitary or SPS controls. delivery of plant health services in England by the Those regulations allowed retained EU law to remain Forestry Commission and Defra respectively.This includes operable in UK legislation after the end of the transition fees for pre-export and export certification services period following our exit from the European Union. required to comply with EU third-country entry For example, they removed references in legislation to requirements relating to plant health controlled material. the Commission and replaced them with references to All businesses that use these services are charged a fee the appropriate UK authority. to recover the cost of delivery. Having exited the European Union, we are The protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland means implementing measures to bring EU imports into the that Northern Ireland remains in the EU plant health same risk-based controls regime that we apply to regime. Therefore, all movements of regulated plants imports from the rest of the world. A key element of between GB and Northern Ireland must meet EU the EU exit regulations is to set out a transitional third-country requirements, including being accompanied period for the introduction of these controls on EU by a phytosanitary certificate. If pre-exit fees related SPS imports into Great Britain. This is a temporary to production of phytosanitary certificates were not pragmatic step, made necessary due to the impact of amended, they would apply in full to trade in regulated Covid-19 on all businesses delivering import, control plants, plant products and other objects between England GC 41 Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021[LORDS] Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021 GC 42

[LORD GOLDSMITH OF RICHMOND PARK] of the House of Commons, which met yesterday. They and Northern Ireland. This would create additional make for interesting reading. They certainly give a costs to businesses when carrying out trade within the strong line on the importance of horticulture and the UK internal market. importance of the Northern Ireland market to British Amendments are being made by this instrument to horticulture. I think noble Lords will agree that it is provide an exemption from the payment of fees for important that the United Kingdom has freedom of pre-export and export certification services where goods trade across all four nations. I know that this is a are moving from England to a business or private matter of negotiation; these concessions certainly help. individual in Northern Ireland. The exemption also applies to movements of goods by private individuals If I may, I will give an illustration of what happens in their passenger baggage. This SI applies to England to a flower bulb grown in Holland. It gets a field only. Scotland has made parallel legislation and Wales inspection in Holland. It gets a dry bulb inspection in plans to do so. This instrument will ensure that trade Holland prior to export. It then gets a receipt dry bulb between England and Northern Ireland is not subject inspection in GB. Then, if it goes to Northern Ireland, to additional plant health costs following the end of it gets an export dry bulb inspection and must have a the transition period. The exempt costs will cover the receipt dry bulb inspection in Northern Ireland. That application, examination, production and amendment is five inspections for one bulb. They are duplications of phytosanitary certificates and anyassociated inspections of the same thing. A bulb is a dormant object. It is not and testing that may be required in order to meet EU a developing disease. It is not growing. It is being entry requirements. repacked in Great Britain for the purposes of distribution to retail outlets. The plant health certificate that is The amendments introduced by this instrument do issued on its arrival in the UK lasts only 14 days; the not include any policy changes. The instrument simply packing process may take a month or two while ensures that the current policy for intra-UK trade is consignments are gathered together. maintained; that services for pre-export and export certification to third countries should not be an additional It seems unnecessary bureaucracy to have to do all financial burden to businesses when moving goods this. Even with some concessions as to how frequently within the UK internal market. These instruments the consignments will be inspected, it is still a considerable ensure that we continue to deliver an effective imports burden. I ask the Minister to bear that in mind and to system that guarantees our high standards of plant seek ways of trying to negotiate arrangements whereby health and food and animal safety, while ensuring the industry does not have to have all this delay and frictionless trading and movements. I beg to move. difficulty for the genuine export of a product when previously it was sufficient for it to be sent on the basis of commercial trust from one producer to another 2.37 pm and with a plant passport issued in the Netherlands. Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con): My Lords, I am There is no difference to the bulbs and no difference to grateful to have the opportunity of speaking to these the care but an awful lot of increased delay and statutory instruments and to the Minister for his expense is involved. explanation of the regulations. I am also grateful for the easement of fees,as they were looking fairly formidable. Added to which, I know that the whole Northern There was a great deal of anxiety about the fees likely Ireland trade business is a matter of considerable to be payable, particularly in a business like ours. I concern to the Government. I support them in their must declare an interest, as my family business is very concern in this area. For example, we supply a large much involved in the supply of flower bulbs to Northern number of seed potatoes to Northern Ireland. At the Ireland for distribution throughout the United Kingdom, moment, we are forbidden from sending seed potatoes the Republic of Ireland and elsewhere. In particular, from Scotland. These certified seed potatoes are inspected the regulated arrangements made a great deal of difference in Scotland and freely distributed throughout Great to the position of a company such as Taylors. I am Britain but they are banned from Northern Ireland at sorry to speak from personal experience, but I hope the moment. I hope that it will be possible to get this that, in a way, it makes my comments more relevant— matter resolved. although my interest in the business is now as an Only today, we had a Private Notice Question in the elder statesman. I am not responsible for day-to-day Chamber from my noble friend Lord Moylan concerning management anymore, but I know the concern that it a cancer drug that is, as I am sure all noble Lords has cost. know, freely available in Great Britain but not available These statutory instruments all change dates. The in Northern Ireland. This is a real cause for concern. If first changes the date to 31 July. I notice that it also the United Kingdom is to mean anything, products extends the regulations on plant health until December. that are available in one part of the United Kingdom I wonder what the position is after that. The second should be available in another. statutory instrument expires on 31 December so the concession on fees, as I read it, expires on 31 December, I support the regulations and am grateful for the and from then on it looks as if those fees will in fact be concessions that they deliver. I would like to know charged. I hope that some accommodation can be whether there are time limits on those concessions. I made regarding the prohibitive cost of small parcels hope that my general remarks have made it clear that and mail order and, in our case, after-sales service there is a long way to go before we have anything like after the principal order has been delivered. I read the normal trading relations with our customers in Northern reports of the First Delegated Legislation Committee Ireland. GC 43 Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021[18 MAY 2021] Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021 GC 44

2.46 pm I fully recognise that Northern Ireland will continue to Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]: My operate within the EU single market under the Northern Lords, I thank the Minister for his explanation of and Ireland protocol. Can the Minister confirm that there introduction to these two sets of regulations. will be no detrimental impact on agriculture and the agri-food sector in Northern Ireland and its relationship The first set relate to trade and official controls. with GB as a result of the delay in implementing the I note that they are intended to protect biosecurity IT and digital requirements? and support trade by ensuring that within Britain, and between Britain and the EU, effective official border A number of weeks ago we discussed the plant controls continue to operate following the end of the health fees amendment regulations, to which the noble transition period, governing imports to Britain of Lord, Lord Gardiner, responded. I am pleased to say animals and animal products and plants and plant that there have been some easements. I have been products, including food and other imports to the contacted by the AgriSupply Coalition which stated agri-food chains—collectively known as the sanitary that because of our references in that debate to its and phytosanitary checks. This represents a failure problems, there has been greater engagement by Defra properly to prepare for the new arrangements over all with it. Defra recognised that more clarity was needed of last year and raises more questions that require on the terms used, such as “not intended for final user”, detailed answers. and put out much more information. It now means seed being sown to produce a crop that will be marketed, The important questions are these. Why are the IT such as a crop of OSR. This step by Defra is welcome systems not ready? Is the infrastructure in place at the in removing the higher fee from seed for trials in border ports of Portsmouth et cetera? Has more response to industry concerns. construction of infrastructure to take place? Have staff been trained to undertake the new responsibilities? Notwithstanding that, the industry remains vigilant What discussions have taken place with the agri-food about any potential divergence between all parts of the sector and the National Farmers’ Union regarding the UK on the matter of seeds and plant health. Many delays? What will be the estimated costs of the damage companies located in or involved in sales around all that these delays could cause to our agri-food sector? parts of the UK remain nervous about this. This is very relevant to the implementation of the Northern In actual fact, this statutory instrument postpones Ireland protocol, so I would welcome assurances from the date from which prior notification requirements the Minister that the area of divergence is being managed, will apply to the import of products of animal origin and managed in the interests of those in the agri-food and prescribed types of plant and plant products from sector and the AgriSupply Coalition, which helps to the EU into GB from 1 April to 31 July. The instrument supply and keep fuelled our local agricultural industry also extends the transitional period so that phytosanitary throughout the UK. certificates will not be required for the import of plant and plant products from the EU into GB until I support these statutory instruments and their two 31 December 2021—apparently to allow businesses specifications. I look forward to the Minister’s response. more time to familiarise themselves with new information technology arrangements. 2.53 pm Can the Minister explain the reason for both delays? Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con): I am delighted Is it due to the implementation of the IT arrangements? to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of If this is the case, why is that? Was no preparatory Downpatrick, and I echo many of the remarks made work undertaken on this issue last year in advance of by my noble friend Lord Taylor of Holbeach, who the TAC agreements at the end of December? Was any speaks with such authority on these issues. I am grateful equality impact assessment undertaken? If so, what to the Minister for setting out so clearly the content of were the results? If no assessment was undertaken, the two instruments before us. I would like to put a why was that the case? Will there not be an impact on number of questions to him, if I may. the agri-food sector? Why the lack of preparedness on In regard to the plant health miscellaneous fees the part of the Government and Defra? regulations before us, the point was made that an I note the concerns of the House of Lords Secondary exemption from the payment of fees is being made Legislation Committee, which has written to Defra about but, as we understand it, this is only for a period of the delays in the implementation of the IT systems. The time. However, my noble friend Lord Goldsmith said committee was advised that there would be a phased that these regulations apply only to England and that transition to the new live systems, starting in summer there will be separate regulations for Scotland and 2021. Can the Minister indicate how long this phased Wales. It would obviously be good to know that they transition period will be and whether there is an will be applied in the same way, and that there will not estimated date for completion? be two different regimes operating. Confirmation of There is also, it has been suggested, a delay in that would be very helpful. getting the BCP infrastructure ready for the new BCP I note the importance of the industry.The horticultural checks, which Defra states should be ready in October trade is worth more than £24 billion in GDP.It supports 2021, January 2022 and March 2022. What will be the more than 568,000 jobs and contributes £5 billion in financial costs of this work and has it been budgeted tax per annum, which is considerable. The agricultural for within the budget timeline for this financial year? supply industry, as represented by the Agricultural While recognising that these regulations are required Industries Confederation, represents a farmgate value for the operation of the trade and co-operation agreement, of more than £8 billion. This is a significant industry I fail to understand the inexplicable reasons for the delays. and a significant trade. GC 45 Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021[LORDS] Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021 GC 46

[BARONESS MCINTOSH OF PICKERING] one for Scotland and one for Wales—there should be Particularly in the context of the second instrument no divergence in their interpretation and operation before us—the Trade and Official Controls (Transitional between the nations of the UK on the matter of seeds Arrangements for Prior Notifications) (Amendment) and plant health. I entirely support the strong and Regulations—it would be helpful to know whether the appropriate comments made by my noble friend Minister can update us on where we are in the negotiations Lord Taylor of Holbeach about the fact that we find on the recognition of the sanitary and phytosanitary ourselves in this incredible position of not being able provisions. I have great difficulty in understanding to export seed potatoes from Scotland and the rest of why we cannot introduce a system more akin to that in Great Britain to Northern Ireland. That is regrettable. New Zealand, particularly when we live so physically If there is to be a review of the Seed Marketing close to our erstwhile European Union partners. It Regulations 2011 next year—or even this year—it would be helpful to know what stage we are at. would be extremely helpful to us to have the earliest Likewise, in case any issues arise, can the Minister possible notification of what the implications will be. confirm that parliamentary committees and other Although I do not oppose these regulations,I obviously specialist committees are being established at this time welcome the fact that there is now at least a dialogue under the EU–UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement? between the department and the industry. I hope that Many of these issues will raise concerns on both sides, the Minister will be able to take this opportunity to and it is important that they can be identified at the answer some of the concerns I have addressed this earliest possible stage. afternoon. As was noted in the discussions in the House of Commons, it is a matter of concern and something to 3 pm be remarked on that the Minister was completely silent on the question of the expected financial impact Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD): and the cost of applying these two sets of regulations. My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to Given the significance and contribution of this sector these two short statutory instruments, which are closely to the UK economy, it is extremely important that we interrelated. The first is a short SI concerned with understand the impact at the earliest possible stage. sanitary and phytosanitary checks to ensure efficient pest and disease control, which is extremely important. As my noble friend Lord Taylor of Holbeach said, Previous speakers have spoken knowledgably and from these are new fees that did not exist in the past. Given the experience on this subject. new arrangements that we find ourselves in post Brexit, this is the first time that a producer or exporter will This is all about border control, yet the EM makes have to pay them—from 1 January 2022, as I understand no mention of Northern Ireland, but deals with England, it. It would be helpful if, in summing up this short Scotland, and Wales. Given that this is extremely debate, the Minister could tell us what impact he and important, I am surprised that we are debating this the department expect the fees to have when they only today, on 18 May. The SI came into force on apply. Also, it seems slightly odd that, if that is the 1 April, as the previous regulations ceased on 31 March. case, the same fees will apply per consignment regardless This is all very retrospective and unsatisfactory. of size. That seems nonsensical and it would be helpful I am concerned that paragraph 7.5 of the Explanatory to have an explanation. Memorandum states that although businesses could Extraordinarily,when we last debated these regulations, “attempt to comply with control requirements”, there had been no discussion or formal consultation the Government do not think this is necessary and with the agricultural supply sector. The Agricultural they will not be enforced. Is this safe? Are the Government, Industries Confederation was not contacted before the in their anxiety to assist businesses, not opening a initial regulations were drafted. It is good to recognise loophole which could see the importation of diseased that there is now greater engagement. I understand material? that there is a dialogue between Defra and the AIC, as The SI on plant health deals with the payment of well as with other parts of the industry, on this subject. fees from England to Northern Ireland. Can the Minister That is obviously welcome. say whether there is a similar arrangement from Northern However,Defra must provide more clarity,particularly Ireland to the UK or whether this a one-way arrangement on some of the terms being used. One example is the only? phrase “not intended for final user”. Can more This is a fairly straightforward SI on the face of it, information be put out at the earliest possible stage, and appears to be solely about the waiving of fees for particularly in view of the fact that we have time now pre-export and export certification services. However, before these fees come into effect on 1 January next I have one concern about the wording at paragraph 2.4 year? What does that phrase mean? If the seed is being of the Explanatory Memorandum, which states: used to produce a crop that will be marketed, it will be “The exemption also applies to movements of goods by private important to understand that from the industry’s point individuals in their passenger baggage.” of view. I understand that Defra is removing the higher This Minister referred to this in his opening remarks. I fee from seed for trials in response to the concerns that am by no means a frequent global traveller, but one have been expressed by industry. Perhaps the Minister thing I have experienced is that, if you fly out of GB to can confirm whether that is the case. I would welcome another country, taking plants and plant products, that very much indeed. even for your private consumption on the flight, is not As I mentioned earlier, there is ongoing concern permitted. Given the rise in pests and pest-borne diseases, that if these regulations are to be implemented differently and the decimation they can bring to our plant life, it with three pieces of legislation—one for England, seems odd to be allowing individual travellers to carry GC 47 Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021[18 MAY 2021] Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021 GC 48 plant products in their luggage without an exemption risked jeopardising the viability of import companies certificate, and likely to be a recipe for disaster. Perhaps which were struggling then to understand the complexities I have misunderstood the meaning of this paragraph, of the administrative system set up by Defra? Can he and I would be grateful if the Minister can provide clarify what the industry response has been to the new some clarification. deadlines? I have two other comments on this SI. First, new The Explanatory Memorandum states that paragraph 2(d), which is inserted by Regulation 2, stakeholders had not been formally consulted but it refers to was expected that these amendments would be received “introduction into, and movement within and out of Northern positively. Since the amendments represent a further Ireland”. delay, this was clearly to be expected, but has anyone There is, however, no mention of the destination after asked them whether they are confident they can have leaving Northern Ireland. Is it to be assumed that it is the new processes up and running by 31 July and always going to be England, Scotland, or Wales? I am 31 December respectively? Otherwise, is there not a extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of danger that we will be back here again, with another Holbeach, for sharing his experience with us. It has SI making further changes to the timetable? been most helpful. Secondly, new paragraph (4B), which is inserted by While on this subject, can the Minister also update Regulation 3(2)(b), states that new paragraph (4A) us on the development of the IPAFFS IT system? This issue was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie. “ceases to have effect at the end of 31st December 2022.” In a letter to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny What is proposed to happen then? Presumably fees Committee, the department said that, from 1 January will be introduced, as the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, 2021, the system was being used for live animal and suggested. What is the likely scale of these fees? Will high-risk food products, and that its functionality was this be a burden for businesses which will have benefited now being extended to include plants and plant products. from a fee holiday? The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, Can the Minister clarify whether the new IT system referred to a possible increase in fees. now covers all animal and plant products, or is there I am generally content with these two SIs, but there more work still to be done? Can he also update the are some worrying aspects to this, and I look forward Committee on the development of the border control to the Minister’s concluding remarks. posts infrastructure? By the new deadlines contained in this SI, will there be the comprehensive biosecurity 3.04 pm checks that should be required at all border posts? Is the Minister confident that enough staff will have Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab): My Lords, I been recruited and trained to staff the posts? Can he thank the Minister for his introduction to these SIs. update us as to whether sufficient veterinary staff with While they are broadly technical in nature, I have a appropriate qualifications will be in place to ensure number of questions on which I would like clarification. that proper checks can take place? Dealing first with the trade and official controls SI, I accept that this debate is taking place after the We are not in a position today to oppose this SI, SI came into effect on 31 March, but nevertheless it and we have every sympathy with businesses adversely raises some concerns. We have dealt with a number of affected by the huge bureaucratic maze that the SIs on similar themes over the past year. Each time, we Government seem to have created. But, as my colleague ask whether businesses will be ready to operate the Daniel Zeichner made clear in the Commons when it new processes and whether the IT systems will be in considered this SI, it is also vital that we put in place place. On each occasion, we receive reassurances from robust biosecurity measures equal to those that we the responding Minister, only to find that further previously enjoyed in the EU. I hope the Minister can delays in implementing the new regime are necessary. explain when we are likely to receive the same protections In December, when we were dealing with an earlier on food safety and security that we previously took for SI which introduced delays, the noble Lord, granted when we were in the EU. Lord Gardiner, reassured us that a shift in introducing Turning briefly to the second SI—on plant health the new processes from 1 January to 1 April would miscellaneous fees—we accept that these proposals “allow us to maintain the highly effective sanitary and phytosanitary are necessary to ensure that our colleagues in Northern regime, while allowing businesses time to prepare for our new Ireland are not penalised by changes to export certification import requirements”.—[Official Report, 2/12/20; col. GC 179.] costs on plant and wood products. This is one small He specifically argued that introducing the new import measure that highlights the difficulties that Northern controls on a phased basis would give businesses—many Ireland businesses are having to tolerate to carry on of which had been impacted by Covid—time to adjust. trading, as was well illustrated by the example from Wenow have a new set of deadlines before us today,and the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, of dry flower bulbs the reason given in the Explanatory Memorandum is: needing five inspection certificates. Can the Minister “This extension will allow businesses affected by the pandemic explain why this problem was not picked up earlier to familiarise themselves with the new SPS compliance requirements and clarify whether a comprehensive review of fees and IT systems,and enable workable migration from current systems.” charged when goods are moving from England to Does the Minister accept that, despite previous Northern Ireland is now taking place? Can we expect reassurances, businesses were clearly being put under further SIs covering different aspects of trade costs to unreasonable pressure to set up the new compliance ensure that Northern Ireland is not further disadvantaged systems? Does he accept that trying to rush it through by the new trade arrangements? GC 49 Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021[LORDS] Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021 GC 50

[BARONESS JONES OF WHITCHURCH] system to imports of plants and plant products from Also, paragraph 7.3 of the Explanatory Memorandum EU and non-EU countries. Our new exports IT system notes: is also on track, currently in beta. The next stage is “Scotland and Wales plan to make parallel legislation, which phased transition to the new live systems throughout will have the same effect”. summer 2021. These timetables will allow the import As it has been some time since this SI was laid, can the and export sectors, including businesses affected by Minister provide an update on the status of the devolved Covid, the time they need to familiarise themselves legislation? As several noble Lords have said, it would with the new services and commodity groups. be helpful if there was no divergence in application by On wider infrastructure readiness, in response to the devolved nations, either in the timescale or the the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, as of April 2021, content of the provisions they are making. I look Defra has received 41 applications for new border forward to his response. control points in England and Wales; 37 of them are live and we are aware of 16 applications for Scotland. 3.11 pm The revised phasing has taken into account the concerns Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con) [V]: I from ports and port authorities on preparations for thank the noble Lords who have contributed to this checks. As we validate the plans for January 2022, debate. we will identify any ports or authorities where there As I outlined in my opening remarks, the first are residual concerns and ensure that a response is instrument reflects the Government’s assessment of pragmatic, tested and can be operationalised effectively. the protracted impacts of the ongoing pandemic and Delaying these requirements does not reflect a change our need to be pragmatic about phasing in controls on in policy; therefore, in answer to a number of noble EU imports in a manner and on a timescale that can Lords, an impact assessment or formal consultation be reasonably met by trade. The second instrument with stakeholders was not deemed necessary. ensures that the current policy for intra-UK trade is The delay in import controls introduced by this maintained without additional plant health costs for instrument has already been communicated to the moving goods between England and Northern Ireland trade via meetings, newsletters and a webinar. In answer following the end of the transition period. to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, these amendments I assure the noble Lords who raised concerns about have been positively received by the trade as they delaying checks and the new timetable that we are enable businesses to save documentary costs and goods acting in the best interests of UK businesses in taking to flow easily across the border. Also in response to the decision to delay the introduction of import controls. the noble Baroness, to support readiness for the delivery This will give traders time to focus on getting back on of the new import controls on animals and animal their feet as the economy opens up in the summer. products, Defra has provided £40 million of funding When the regulations were drafted in the autumn of to local authorities in England to assist port health 2020, we were unaware how disruptive the pandemic authorities with the recruitment and training of more would continue to be. These proposals are contingent than 500 new staff, including official veterinarians. on the UK proceeding with the relaxation of coronavirus The delay in import controls for low-risk plants and measures in accordance with the broad timetable set plant goods introduced by this instrument will give EU out by the Prime Minister. If the UK faces a different businesses more time to prepare for these changes. scenario, we will monitor the impact very carefully. I EU businesses have welcomed this additional time. assure the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, in particular EU member states are aware of our new requirements that we are confident that there are no biosecurity and are getting ready for these changes. Ultimately, risks from these delays.Current EU biosecurity standards they will be responsible for preparing EU businesses are essentially the same as our own, and where this is to meet ongoing demand from customers in Great not the case—for example, for certain plants—we have Britain. already delivered more robust controls, which remain in place. Noble Lords asked questions about the challenges The instrument before your Lordships was made facing those that export regulated goods to the EU or under the urgency provision so that it could be laid move them to Northern Ireland. We fully acknowledge and brought into force by 31 March, following the the difficulties facing those businesses, and continue to Cabinet committee decision of 11 March. We did not press the strong technical case for the remaining want the risk that EU import businesses would have prohibitions and restrictions to be removed from GB felt obliged to comply with the control requirements plants and plant products. originally due to come into force in April. As with The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, raised concerns about many of the SPS instruments giving effect to the charges and the need to simplify the process of sending withdrawal Act 2018, this SI does not apply to Northern dormant flower bulbs to Northern Ireland. The UK Ireland. Government and the Northern Ireland Executive have The noble Baronesses, Lady Ritchie and Lady Jones, developed practical arrangements to simplify checks asked about the readiness of IT infrastructure. Delivery and controls between GB and Northern Ireland. The remains on track for the new import and export IT requirements for moving bulbs and other plant material systems. Since 1 January 2021, the IPAFF system has to Northern Ireland are set in EU plant health regulations, been successfully introduced for imports of live animals, and we continue to discuss issues around the application animal products and high-risk food and feed not of of these requirements, in the context of the protocol, animal origin into GB. We are now extending that with the Commission. GC 51 Trade and Official Controls Regs. 2021[18 MAY 2021] Arrangement of Business GC 52

The Movement Assistance Scheme has been developed Finally, on the issue of cost, which was raised by a by the Government to make it easier for traders to number of noble Lords, the actual costs to businesses continue to move agri-food goods, including bulbs, will vary depending on how they organise their imports from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. Wewill continue and the type of material being imported. The schedules to monitor and review the scheme to determine how to the statutory instrument set out the fees for individual best to provide ongoing support to traders.Also in answer categories of commodities. The fees methodology was to the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, the UK Government agreed through consultation with the trade in 2017. have engaged and continue to engage with businesses To those noble Lords who raised questions about and stakeholders on support measures; they also continue the fees applying to moving material from GB to to collect feedback on what further assistance could be Northern Ireland, I can reassure them that there will beneficial. be no associated fees. This is in line with the principles Defra continues to press the strong technical case of unfettered market access. There is no requirement for the remaining prohibitions and restrictions to be for export phytosanitary certificates to accompany lifted to enable exports of the full range of GB plants qualifying Northern Ireland goods moving from and plant products to the EU and their movement to Northern Ireland to GB. There will also be no import Northern Ireland. Following this process will lead to checks on QNIGs entering GB, and no additional an outcome that endures over the long term. Working costs to trade as a result of plant health service delivery with industry bodies, we are seeking to ensure that this by APHA. process is expedited. I hope that noble Lords appreciate the need for The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, was concerned these trade-supporting regulations. These two statutory that there is a contamination risk where private individuals instruments are critical components in our ongoing can bring plant and plant matter into and out of legislative process, which will together ensure that we Northern Ireland with certification. The new requirements are able to maintain a functional and effective imports on goods moving from Great Britain to Northern regime now that the transition period has ended. I Ireland are consistent with the Northern Ireland protocol, would like to thank again noble Lords for the important and certificate requirements are the same for personal points raised here today. I trust the responses have or commercial movements of plants and plant products. been useful. I am confident that these regulations are The Government have guaranteed unfettered access fit for purpose and represent another marker in the for Northern Ireland’s businesses to the rest of the UK Government’s commitment to providing support for internal market, ensuring that they can continue to business. trade as they did before the end of the transition period. Plants will continue to move from Northern Motion agreed. Ireland to GB under the same plant passporting system that now governs plant movements within GB. For private individuals travelling from Northern Ireland, Plant Health etc. (Miscellaneous Fees) or indeed from anywhere, our advice remains to act (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2021 responsibly. Considered in Grand Committee My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked whether the SI covers all the devolved Administrations. The answer 3.21 pm is no. The territorial application of this instrument is England. Scotland has laid two Scottish statutory Moved by Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park instruments to cover the equivalent measures for goods moving from Scotland to Northern Ireland, and Wales Motion agreed. intends to lay equivalent legislation, which will enter into force later this year. The Scottish and Welsh 3.21 pm Governments continue to commit to not diverging in ways that would cut across future frameworks where it Sitting suspended. has been agreed that they are necessary or where discussions continue. My noble friend also asked why we do not have an Arrangement of Business SPS regime such as that in New Zealand. The sanitary Announcement and phytosanitary chapter of the trade and co-operation agreement put in place a framework, including an SPS 3.26 pm specialised committee, that allows the UK and the EU to take informed decisions to reduce their respective The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Healy SPS controls, with a commitment to avoid unnecessary of Primrose Hill) (Lab): My Lords, the hybrid Grand barriers to trade. It is in both parties’ interest to use Committee will now resume. Some Members are here this framework to reduce the rate of SPS checks in person, others are participating remotely, but all required, and the TCA is the starting point for our Members will be treated equally. I ask Members in the future relationship with the EU.Weare open to discussions Room to respect social distancing. If the capacity of with the EU on additional steps that we can take the Committee Room is exceeded or other safety further to reduce trade friction, but they cannot be on requirements are breached, I will immediately adjourn the basis of future alignment with EU rules, as that the Committee. If there is a Division in the House, the would compromise UK sovereignty over our own rules. Committee will adjourn for five minutes. GC 53 Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act[LORDS] Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act GC 54

Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act closed or are unable to operate at full capacity,particularly 2020 (Coronavirus) (Extension of the in the retail, hospitality and events sectors. Extending these measures further will give businesses the confidence Relevant Period) Regulations 2021 and support they need while they are doing their best Considered in Grand Committee to reopen safely and return to as normal trading as they can in these unprecedented times. 3.27 pm Noble Lords will know that the Government have Moved by Lord Callanan already extended the temporary suspension on the ability of commercial landlords to forfeit business tenancies. TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department This will give further protection to tenants who have only forBusiness,EnergyandIndustrialStrategy(LordCallanan) recently been able to restart trading after the restrictions (Con): My Lords, these regulations were laid before the introduced because of the most recent lockdown. House on 24 March this year. It is now over a year Although these measures are intended to help since the emergence of Covid-19, and the Government companies that may be subject to aggressive creditor have consistently taken the swift action needed to save enforcement, the Government have been clear that they lives, limit the spread of the disease, protect the NHS are not to be seen as a payment holiday.Where companies and mitigate damage to the economy.The Government’s can pay their debts, they should of course do so. It is successful rollout of the vaccine programme and the important to note that these measures aim to encourage implementation of their four-step road map out of forbearance and do not extinguish any existing creditor lockdown are both reasons for cautious optimism that rights or interests. In addition to the protection that we will soon enjoy a return to normality. To date, in these measures give, they are also intended to give excess of 35 million people have had their first vaccination those companies with unavoidable accrued arrears and more than 18 million have had their second dose— caused by the pandemic time to take advice from including me, yesterday. The British public have also restructuring professionals and to negotiate and reach risen to the challenge of suppressing the spread of the agreements with their creditors wherever possible. virus by sticking to the rules: staying at home; getting I know that many businesses and their business tested when appropriate; isolating when required; and representatives will welcome the continued support following the “hands, face, space”and “letting fresh air that these regulations will give them during this extremely in” guidance. uncertain time. However, I also recognise that these However, we are not out of the woods just yet, and measures will mean a further period of uncertainty for the emergence of new strains of the virus mean that creditors where some of their rights to enforce the now is not the time to become complacent. The recovery of their debts are temporarily restricted. Although continuation of social distancing measures, introduced we believe that the extension of the statutory demand to limit the spread of the virus and help save lives, is and winding-up provisions will be particularly welcomed crucial while we wait for everyone to be vaccinated, by commercial tenants, it applies to all business sectors but this of course continues to have an effect on of the economy. business. The Government recognise that, while most Noble Lords will be aware that wrongful trading businesses have been able to reopen and many have proceedings are an action that may be taken by an received significant financial support, social distancing insolvency office-holder against directors, which can measures remain and some businesses continue to face lead to a director being held personally liable for losses uncertainty and financial difficulties, as they are still to a company’screditors where they allowed the company unable to open or are not yet able to trade at full to continue to trade beyond the point at which it capacity. became inevitable that the company would enter formal It is therefore crucial that the Government continue insolvency proceedings. A successful action may lead to support businesses by giving them every chance to to losses being recovered for the benefit of creditors survive, fully reopen and get through this period of but, more importantly, wrongful trading has a vital uncertainty. This statutory instrument will do that by role in preventing reckless insolvent trading. The threat extending the temporary measures first introduced by of personal liability is a strong deterrent against directors the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020— causing companies to continue to trade at the risk of which were due to expire variously at the end of creditors. March or April—by a further three-month period The suspension of liability for wrongful trading until the end of June 2021. The temporary measures until 30 June 2021 will allow directors to take steps to being extended until 30 June 2021 are: first, the suspension save companies that would otherwise be viable but for on serving statutory demands and the restrictions on the impact of the pandemic without the threat that filing petitions to wind-up companies; secondly, the they may be personally penalised for losses incurred small supplier exemption from termination clause during a period of great economic uncertainty if things provisions; and, thirdly, the suspension of the wrongful did not improve and the company later had to enter trading provisions. In addition, modifications to the insolvency proceedings. I should stress that suspending moratorium provisions and the temporary moratorium wrongful trading does not give a free pass to directors rules are extended until 30 September 2021. or allow them to act irresponsibly.Other vital protections The temporary suspension on serving statutory for creditors when a company is facing insolvency demands and restrictions on winding-up petitions continue remain in place, such as the directors’ duties set out in to help many viable companies during these difficult the Companies Act, fraudulent trading or misfeasance trading conditions by removing the threat of aggressive actions under the Insolvency Act, and disqualification creditor action at a time when many businesses remain from acting as a company director. GC 55 Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act[18 MAY 2021] Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act GC 56

Finally, the new company moratorium introduced Few would argue—and I do not do so—that those bytheActgivesfinanciallydistressedcompaniesprotection businesses impacted by the Covid pandemic and which from creditor enforcement while they seek a rescue. In find themselves in financial difficulties, unable to pay normal economic conditions, the moratorium is intended their debts because of the pandemic, should be granted to work with certain entry criteria that must be met before a breathing space, which is what these regulations seek a company can enter into one. These criteria protect to do. I support that. What I do not understand, and it the integrity of the moratorium, which should be used is not apparent from listening to my noble friend, is only for those companies with a realistic prospect of why the length of the breathing space varies according rescue. Noble Lords will recall that it was recognised to different areas of activity under the regulations. during the debates on the Corporate Insolvency and Protection of companies from creditor action on Governance Act that it would help fundamentally viable statutory demands and winding-up petitions lasts only companies impacted by the pandemic to make use of to 30 June 2021—I note in passing that that is not far the moratorium if these criteria were temporarily relaxed. away, and I suspect we will be back here again, probably These regulations will extend some of those temporary after the event, to extend this period, which I do not relaxations to 30 September 2021. They include: allowing necessarily disagree with. On the other hand, protection a company subject to a winding-up petition to access a for the operation of the company moratorium goes on moratorium simply by filing the relevant documents at to 30 September 2021. Protection for directors and court, rather than having to make an application to shadow directors from the wrongful trading provisions the court; and, secondly, disapplying the rule that lasts only to 30 June 2021. There is no explanation in prevents a company entering a moratorium if it has the regulations for the different end dates, other than been subject to a company voluntary arrangement, the somewhat cavalier statement in the Explanatory been in administration or been in a previous moratorium Memorandum that within the last 12 months. These regulations will also “the extension for each measure has been determined having extend the temporary administrative rules for the regard to the nature of the measure in question.” moratorium contained in Schedule 4 to the Corporate This seems somewhat circular to me. What is it inherent Insolvency and Governance Act, which enable it to in the nature of the statutory demand versus the operate. moratorium that requires a different end date, particularly, The important package of temporary measures, first as I say, given that I would be surprised if we are not introduced by the Corporate Insolvency and Governance asked to extend these dates again? I believe I raised Act last year and by subsequent extensions, continues this issue on our last outing. to be widely welcomed by businesses. We are told by As I have said, I support these provisions, but we business that these measures, alongside the availability need to recognise—to be fair, the Minister made this of new permanent tools, have been essential in supporting point too—that, notwithstanding the small business continued trading, seeking a rescue or restructuring, carve-out exemption, these measures are an interference and allowing many companies to trade without the with the normal rules of insolvency, and indeed the threat of creditor action being taken against them. normal rules of trading. However, a year into these In conclusion, the Government recognise that these restrictions—my noble friend referred to them as measures represent a significant incursion into the temporary, and I think we are going to have to revisit normal operation of insolvency legislation, in particular that word before too long in this context—there has to the rights of creditors, and as such it is right that they been no consultation on them. The Explanatory are not extended for longer than is absolutely necessary. Memorandum does however state that the These temporary measures will, therefore, continue to “Government has engaged informally with a range of stakeholders”. be kept under constant review. I beg to move. The Minister in passing made reference to a welcome, I think, from business. The Explanatory Memorandum also refers to engagement with 3.35 pm “business representative organisations and investor groups on Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]: My Lords, I these matters.” thank my noble friend for setting out so clearly the Can my noble friend tell the Committee what groups effect of these extension regulations. I support these these were, what the nature of the engagement was extensions, as I have done previously—this is not the and what the groups said? That would be important first time we have been here, of course—but I have for us in these proceedings. some questions for my noble friend. Lastly, I turn to the position regarding wrongful The Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act trading. I note what my noble friend said about the 2020 introduced the new stand-alone moratorium suspension of liability for wrongful trading for directors procedure for companies. This had been proposed and shadow directors, and I wonder why this part of earlier and was, of course, very much a pre-pandemic directors’ liability has been seized upon. My noble proposal. Most of the other legislative changes in that friend noted, I think with approval, that other liabilities Act were driven by the pandemic, and quite rightly so. in relation to directors’ duties, disqualification and so Given that the moratorium procedure is central to on are unchanged. Why, then, have the Government some of the context of these regulations, I wonder singled out wrongful trading as a particular area to whether my noble friend can update the Committee suspend during this period? It is not clear to me. There on the number of moratoriums that have been applied may be some reason, and I would be grateful if my for, although I appreciate that that statistic might be noble friend could enlighten us on that. difficult, the number granted, which should be more Subject to these caveats and concerns, I support straightforward, and the number that are live today. these regulations. GC 57 Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act[LORDS] Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act GC 58

3.40 pm This is now very important because, as I have noted, HMRC has Crown preference, which is a huge change Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con): My Lords, clearly we are from the former arrangements. Perhaps the Minister at a critical time for UK businesses. It is widely recognised will advise us of whether the Government have any that businesses face enormous liquidity issues when an plans to review this preference. economy comes out of a downturn as much as when the downturn starts. I draw noble Lords’ attention to As part of the excellent build back better policy, my interests as set out in the register, which include there is an inevitable need to reallocate resources, investments in all sorts of companies—I think they improve productivity and, therefore, grow sustainable are all solvent, but one never knows. jobs for businesses that can truly thrive in post-pandemic As of now, as my noble friend eloquently explained, global Britain—as in post-Brexit Britain, my noble friend the effects of the downturn have been cushioned by will note. There will be a painful but necessary process the somewhat heroic efforts of the Chancellor, and the to get Britain back to fighting fit. There will be casualties; teams at the Treasury and BEIS, in providing a cushion we have to accept that. The enormous challenge we for so many businesses in different ways, from loans to have is to devise ways for fundamentally sound businesses grants, rates relief and furlough, and, as my noble to get through the next year or so, but not to prolong friend explained just now, measures that were set out the agony for those that will just use up more and in the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act, more resource before, sadly, they reach their inevitable which we debated in this House a short while ago. It end. I understand that the current rate of insolvencies was a great achievement and showed the Government is, roughly, one-third below the normal level, so there being fleet of foot at their best. is a build-up of companies and businesses facing insolvency. There is no question that we are coming through the difficult times to some sort of normality, and even I will use this debate to make some related points to possibly a mini boom, so the question is whether we this SI. First, what will the Government’s approach be need all the measures in the Act to be extended. I plan to the mounting level of corporate debt in the economy? to ask my noble friend broadly the same question as What further flexibility will HMRC provide to Covid-hit my noble friend Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth asked: businesses that need extra time to pay their debts? The why are the measures not coterminous? Perhaps he Government need to make the most of the time they can explain what has happened in the interregnum for have bought for businesses, industry and the economy, those measures which expired on 31 March. not least by the Act, to consider how they will answer I have been studying some commentary and research these questions. In particular, are there any further from the turnaround specialist group R3. When the plans for some sort of equity fund, which was being previous extension was under consideration it said: discussed about a year ago, possibly through the British Business Bank or the Business Growth Fund, which “The Chancellor’s decision to temporarily extend his COVID insolvency measures, coupled with the other aspects of the support celebrated its 10th anniversary last week? This needs package announced today, will be welcome news to many businesses to be reconsidered, as so many businesses just need a across the country … The insolvency and restructuring profession modest injection of equity—say £2 million or £3 million. will also welcome the extension of the temporary relaxation of I say “modest” in the nature of the world because entry requirements for the new moratorium procedure. This measure £2 million or £3 million is below the amount that could enable more businesses to access this important tool over traditional private equity arranges and is not necessarily the coming months,and help to facilitate the rescue of otherwise-viable businesses.” within the scope of EIS or SEIS. Of course, this is an opportunity for us to look again at the EIS rules, now It added: that we are out of the EU. This is the famous equity “However, while the Chancellor’s announcement will make a gap that was first raised by Harold Wilson, when he real difference in the coming months, these measures can’t be was Prime Minister. prolonged indefinitely, and the Government will face a number of questions when this extension ends.” I turn to a subject that my noble friend and I have It is important to avoid a cliff edge, but the longer discussed at length, the moratorium. In answer to the temporary measures are in place, the harder the recovery question from my noble friend Lord Bourne, I think will be. On early intervention, a smart and staged plan that there have been only four moratoria between June is needed for businesses to be in turnaround, ideally, and December. There is an argument that initial take-up rather than insolvency. was low because of other reliefs, such as statutory demands, winding-up petitions, furlough payments, The main issue that businesses will face will be et cetera, which are protecting companies that might working capital and skills shortages. On the former, otherwise need the procedure. The extension is to the the reintroduction of Crown preference has reduced relaxation of the eligibility criteria for a moratorium the amount of headroom in inventory finance to the to make it more accessible. I understand that the point where there may not be any facility on which to moratorium is intended to be a permanently available draw. As a key creditor in most corporate insolvencies, procedure and that permanent rules will be introduced along with landlords and banks, the Government have in due course. Can the Minister comment on that and a direct role to play in supporting viable restructuring on whether the changes to the moratorium that we and business rescue proposals. HMRC, in particular, debated are under review? has not always taken a constructive approach to these proposals although, I understand from briefings, it is By taking a more active and engaged stance as a being as lenient as it possibly can be to companies that creditor and legislator, I am sure that the Government have been sensible taxpayers. However,every step should could help to save more potentially viable businesses, be taken to encourage HMRCto be as helpful as possible. thereby safeguarding thousands of jobs, securing future GC 59 Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act[18 MAY 2021] Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act GC 60 tax income and giving companies a chance to deal distribution to unsecured creditors to give them a with the liabilities resulting from this pandemic. However, chance of survival. If the Minister does not agree, I there must soon be a time when we allow businesses to hope he will explain why SMEs are being penalised by find out if they are viable without further support, the current insolvency laws. and thereby protect creditors from prolonging and There is no legislation in place to prevent insolvency deepening the problem. practitioners enriching themselves by prolonging insolvencies and charging exorbitant fees. In some 3.49 pm cases, partners are charging more than £1,500 an hour for their services; I have seen the invoices. Government Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]: My Lords, the regulations statistics show that around 14,328 insolvencies were before us extend the life of temporary measures to not finalised, even after 15 years. This is a licence to 30 June this year, but the Government have failed to loot and no regulator has done anything to check it. It provide any road map to show how businesses can is no good saying that a creditors’ committee can act negotiable the cliff edge that is inevitable whenever the because many insolvencies do not require the prior regulations end. The past 15 months should have been approval of creditors. In any case, small businesses are used to develop such a strategy, but none is in sight at too busy looking for replacement business and do not the moment. have the time to attend such meetings. Even if they Covid-related loans have been welcomed by many did, the votes cast by banks and private equity would businesses and have enabled them to manage and override their concerns. The cost of administration survive the crisis. Such support has been welcomed by and the liquidation fees are directly borne by unsecured big and small businesses, including easyJet, British creditors. In other words, higher fees for insolvency Airways and many others. Of course, some loans will practitioners reduce the amounts that can be recovered never be repaid. However, this loan-centric policy is by unsecured creditors. I hope the Minister can explain also storing up more problems for the future. In time, why secured creditors do not bear the cost of insolvency the loans and interest thereupon will need to be repaid. —the insolvency practitioners’ fees, in other words. The repayments will deplete business cash flows and I urge the Government to provide an insolvency road dampen business recovery, employment and investment map so that more businesses can survive the coming in productive assets. crisis, which will not end soon but will roll on for quite A better policy option would have been to take an a few years yet. We need a strategy in place now. equity stake in businesses wherever possible. This would mean that business cash flows would not be depressed and would instead be available for investment in productive 3.55 pm assets. In time, the Government could sell their equity Lord Moylan (Con): My Lords, I support this measure. stake to recoup their investment if they so wished. Of It is right that the Government should take action to course, the equity stake would need to be written off if protectcorporatesfrominsolvencyinthecurrentpandemic the business in question did not survive. However, that emergency situation. The Explanatory Memorandum risk is no different from a situation where the business makes it clear that the measures are designed to help has been supported by government loans. Even now, UK companies and “other similar entities”, so I hope there is nothing to prevent the Government converting I will be forgiven for pointing out that the measures their loans to an equity stake wherever possible. I hope have no effect and give no relief for those running that the Minister will agree with this proposal and the businesses as self-employed persons from the equivalent Government can therefore avoid the problems that of corporate insolvency in their case, which is of will surely arise and affect many businesses. course personal bankruptcy. This also applies to the In previous debates, I have asked the Government directors of small companies who have been required to help unsecured creditors. Under insolvency law as it to give personal guarantees to their creditors and stands now, unsecured creditors recover little of the landlords. debts owed to them. This in turn affects their survival, I take as an example for the benefit of the Committee jobs, investment and local prosperity. There is no a bespoke tailor of my acquaintance. Effectively, his economic or moral reason for enabling secured creditors business and the skills he has learned so hard over the —mostly banks and other financial institutions—to years have been criminalised during the past year; it is walk away with most of the proceeds from the sale of impossible in practice to do an inside leg measurement a bankrupt business’sassets.This leaves little for unsecured without breaching Covid regulations. His past earnings— creditors and hits micro-businesses and SMEs particularly now very much in the past—exceed the limit for help hard. Their prospects of survival are strangled by under the self-employed income scheme that the inequitable insolvency laws. Chancellor has made available. Of course, trading as The current insolvency laws do not provide equitable he does from shop premises, he is protected from risk-sharing and the biggest burden is borne by those eviction and has had business rate relief, but he is not least able to carry it, namely micro-businesses and immune to personal bankruptcy proceedings brought SMEs. Such entities are not diversified and therefore by his landlord. Bankruptcy, even more than corporate cannot absorb the risk arising from the collapse of a insolvency, threatens one’s home, one’s family and major customer. In contrast, banks hold diversified one’s reputation in a terrible way. It is a terrible threat portfolios and are in a position to absorb risks arising to live under. My example is only emblematic, of course; from the default of loans. Insolvency law needs to be it applies to the self-employed as a class, especially changed. At least 40% of the proceeds from the sale of those trading from business premises and, as I said, to bankrupt businesses’ assets must be ring-fenced for directors of companies. GC 61 Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act[LORDS] Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act GC 62

[LORD MOYLAN] from March to June. The modifications to moratorium Short of legislation, because legislation is not the provisions and temporary moratorium rules are extended essential answer to everything, there are things that the from March to September; the small supplier exemption Government could do. For example, they could prevent from termination clause provisions are extended from such claims coming before the courts for a period to March to June; and the provisions suspending liability come—certainly while the pandemic lasts and for a for wrongful trading are extended from April to June. period beyond—in the same way as they have prevented We welcome the Government extending the safety actions for eviction being brought before the courts. net for businesses in distress because of this pandemic. They could even use the force of moral suasion—the bully Just as we supported the emergency legislation last pulpit, if you like—against unscrupulous and unforgiving year,we welcome any measures to support the businesses landlords. There may be other things that they can do that closed to keep us safe. As the Minister knows, we to get landlords and tenants working better and more argued then that the protections in the Act should be effectively together. I hope that my noble friend will be extended over a longer period. Now, as we extend able to offer some words of support to those in this them again, I stress that this causes real uncertainty very difficult position. and worry for businesses in the run-up to each previous expiry date. The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Healy As the economy reopens and restrictions ease, it is of Primrose Hill) (Lab): The noble Viscount, right that these measures are kept under review but we Lord Trenchard, has withdrawn so I call the next must remember how many people are still being affected speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Bhatia. by insolvency.According to the most recent government 3.58 pm statistics, there were 29,140 total individual insolvencies in the first quarter of this year—2021—with one in Lord Bhatia (Non-Afl) [V]: My Lords, as the 424 adults having become insolvent in the last 12 months. Explanatory Memorandum states, this SI Throughout this crisis, we have called on Ministers “has been prepared by the Department for Business, Energy and to ensure that economic support matches the public Industrial Strategy”. health measures in place. While we have seen welcome It goes on: support for workers through the furlough, there have “This instrument makes provision to further extend the duration still been gaps in support that the Government have of some of the temporary measures introduced by the Corporate repeatedly failed to address.In particular,we are concerned … Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 beyond their current about the levels of debt facing businesses, whether expiration dates, namely: restrictions on the use of statutory demands and winding up petitions from their current expiry date through the loans they have taken, the VAT they have on 31 March 2021 to 30 June 2021; the modifications to moratorium had deferred or the rent holidays they have had but will provisions and temporary moratorium rules from their current soon have to start repaying. These measures are welcome expiry date of 30 March 2021 to 30 September 2021; and the in staving off creditors but they just kick the can down small supplier exemption from termination clause provisions the road. They do little to change the fundamentals from its current expiry date of 30 March 2021 to 30 June 2021. facing so many firms of large Covid debt and low or This instrument also extends provisions suspending liability for wrongful trading in the Corporate Insolvency and Governance no takings while the fight against Covid continues. Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Suspension of Liability for Wrongful After the Queen’s Speech, it is also clear that the Trading and Extension of the Relevant Period) Regulations 2020 Government continue to dodge the need for wider reform … made under the CIG Act, from the current expiry date of of our insolvency laws, particularly in providing greater 30 April 2021 to 30 June 2021.” protection and support for key industries and their The EM also states: workers. Currently, there is no safe place to refinance “The instrument is made using the powers given by section 20 or protect such a company’s assets until it might be too and section 41 of the CIG Act to make regulations which amend late, all the while leaving the company searching for or modify corporate insolvency or governance legislation, and to refinancing while trying to retain the confidence of extend temporary provision in the CIG Act respectively and is suppliers and customers, who risk the most should subject to the made affirmative procedure … the Secretary of State must have considered the effect of the regulations on those it fail. likely to be affected by them. The Secretary of State must also be Even if these changes do not come forward, Ministers satisfied that the need for regulations is urgent, the regulations are should not be bystanders. They should intervene early— proportionate, and that the same result cannot be achieved either before liquidation if necessary. This would mean that without legislation or by using a different power. The Secretary of workers would not lose their accrued service benefits, State must also keep the need for the regulations under review and revoke or amend them if appropriate. This power is being used to and would protect the supply chain. We support today’s amend secondary legislation … The territorial extent of this measures but call for wider reform tomorrow. instrument is England, Wales and Scotland.” Thank you. 4.04 pm Lord Callanan (Con): First, I thank all noble Lords 4.01 pm who have contributed to what I thought was a very Lord Lennie (Lab) [V]: My Lords, like other noble interesting and informative debate. The points raised Lords who have spoken in this debate, I have a strong have highlighted the importance of the measures being sense of déjà vu. We are back debating the extension extended by these regulations and the necessity of of measures in the Corporate Insolvency and Governance extending them so that many businesses can continue Act 2020. As we have heard, these measures include to benefit from them. Over the past year, businesses have extending the faced an exceptionally challenging time, with many “restrictions on the use of statutory demands and winding up unable to trade or having had their ability to trade at petitions” full capacity restricted due to social distancing measures. GC 63 Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act[18 MAY 2021] Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act GC 64

My noble friend Lord Bourne asked how many support in grants of up to £9,000 per premises. Support moratoria there have been to date. The answer is four. continues to be available to firms as restrictions are This relatively low number is a direct result of the eased and economic activity rebounds. decisive government action to support the economy Further temporary insolvency legislation and business through the worst of Covid-19’s economic impact, support provided by the Government since the crisis which has helped many businesses and saved jobs. began have resulted in fewer insolvencies than would These measures have meant that there has been somewhat normally be expected. Her Majesty’s Treasury is suppressed demand to date for the moratorium. It monitoring the impact that insolvencies will have on should be noted that there have also been far fewer lenders’ balance sheets, which to date have remained corporate insolvencies in this period; for example, largely resilient—backed of course by government action government statistics show that corporate company —and on their ability and willingness to lend to support insolvencies in March 2021 were 86% down on the economic recovery. same month last year—as I say that, there is a clap of thunder; I hope that is not a sign of impending doom. The noble Lord, Lord Sikka, raised some concerns about insolvency practitioner fees. In our view, it is As the economy begins to emerge from the pandemic, right that insolvency practitioners are paid a fair rate it is of course sad to report that we expect the moratorium for the work they do. The remuneration and expenses to be used more frequently. It will be subject to review of insolvency office-holders are subject to the approval to ensure that it works as intended no more than three of creditors in each case and, of course, subject to the years from Royal Assent of the Act. overall control of the court. Regulators have a statutory On the different end dates my noble friend asked duty to encourage an independent and competitive about, the Government recognise that these measures insolvency profession that provides high-quality services have a significant impact on the normal working of at a fair and reasonable cost to the profession. Complaints insolvency legislation and the rights of creditors; it is about high levels of fees charged by an insolvency therefore right that they are not extended for longer practitioner can be made through the Insolvency Service’s than needed. The temporary provisions for moratoria complaints gateway. in Schedule 4 are extended to 30 September because I was particularly grateful to my noble friend Lord the consent of the Scottish Government may be required Moylan for highlighting the many ways in which the to implement replacement permanent rules for Scotland, Government have consistently supported business as some aspects of corporate insolvency are devolved. throughout the pandemic; he also made a number of Users have told us that when rules in both England very important points. He asked what the Government and Wales and Scotland change, they prefer the rules are doing to protect sole trader tenants and/or directors to come into force in both jurisdictions at the same who have given personal guarantees against being time. An extension of six months will therefore aid made personally bankrupt by aggressive landlords; this process. that is indeed a good point. As my noble friend will be My noble friend also asked whom we consulted. We aware, although the restrictions on insolvency proceedings have engaged with major trade representatives including were targeted at companies, the Government have put the Institute of Directors, R3, major restructuring in place an unprecedented package of support to help firms and insolvency practitioners. There are too many the self-employed with their finances during the to list now but I can write to my noble friend if he coronavirus pandemic; this includes the job retention wishes to have a list. scheme and the recovery loan scheme as well as a My noble friend Lord Bourne also asked why we number of business support schemes operated by local have singled out wrongful trading for these measures. authorities. Representatives have made it clear that wrongful trading The Government recognise that many people are is a strong deterrent to continued trading, and many struggling financially due to the coronavirus. We have responsible directors will cause companies to cease worked with mortgage lenders, credit providers and trading rather than risk the threat of future personal the Financial Conduct Authority to ensure that people liability, with the impact that this could have on the can get and access the support that they need. We are lives of directors and their families and all it entails. also committed to helping people to access the necessary As with all these measures, we will keep the need for support to get their finances back on track. An extra them under constant review and act swiftly if evidence £37.8 million has been made available to debt advice demonstrates a need to extend them further or turn providers to support people in financial difficulty. I them off. would always encourage businesses that have not been My noble friend Lord Leigh asked about the able to access support, or are not sure of the support Government’s approach to mounting levels of corporate available, to contact their nearest business growth hub. debt in the economy. While many firms have been hit The Government have established a network of 38 of hard by the pandemic, government support has ensured these hubs, with one in each local enterprise partnership that the corporate sector has remained resilient, with area in England. Expert advisers can offer businesses the increase in indebtedness matched by an increase in of all sizes free, tailored, one-to-one guidance on areas net deposits over and above the level of lending. Firms such as business plans, building resilience and potential look likely to have used lending to increase cash buffers, funding streams. both to cover deferred liabilities such as VAT and rent My noble friend asked why these temporary measures and to prepare for any further shocks. Firms in certain are not being extended for longer. The temporary sectors such as hospitality, which has been hit hardest measures can be extended by statutory instrument by the pandemic, have received additional government only for a maximum period, which was set down in the GC 65 Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act[LORDS] Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021 GC 66

[LORD CALLANAN] Once again, I thank all noble Lords who have original primary legislation; for the insolvency measures, contributed to this debate. that is a maximum of six months. However, recognising that these measures involve a significant intervention into Motion agreed. the normal working of the insolvency regime, including 4.16 pm affecting the rights of creditors, it is right that these measures are put in place only for as long as is necessary Sitting suspended. and that we keep them regularly under review. The Government will keep this matter under review in the Arrangement of Business light of ongoing developments during the pandemic, Announcement and we will move swiftly to extend them further if that proves necessary. 4.19 pm Turning to my noble friend’s questions about the The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness measures that expired at the end of March, this was solely Fookes) (Con): My Lords, the hybrid Grand Committee due to a relaxation of the requirement to hold annual will now resume. I ask Members in the Room to general meetings physically. The provision was effective respect social distancing. If the capacity of the Committee for a limited period and it was not possible to extend it Room is exceeded or other safety requirements are beyond 5 April 2021. Where there remain concerns in breached, I will immediately adjourn the Committee. the business community that holding general and annual If there is a Division in the House, the Committee will general meetings post March 2021 would be problematic adjourn for five minutes. given continued uncertainty around coronavirus restrictions, officials are working closely with stakeholders Warm Home Discount (Miscellaneous as a matter of urgency to explore non-statutory Amendments) Regulations 2021 approaches to address the challenges that might arise upon the expiration of the temporary provisions. Considered in Grand Committee Turning to the question of how we avoid a so-called 4.19 pm cliff edge when these measures expire, the Government Moved by Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist recognise the risks of such a scenario involving the accumulation of unpaid debts becoming due when Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): My restrictions and government fiscal support expire. Work Lords, the House may be aware that in October 2020 is ongoing to develop possible solutions to enable a the Government consulted on the proposed one-year viable exit from these measures; that continues to extension of the warm home discount scheme. The support business during the recovery phase. changes proposed were broadly welcomed and it is the Finally, I turn to the question of the Government’s regulations implementing those changes that we are approach to the mounting level of corporate debt in debating. the economy. While many firms have been hit hard by The Government are committed to alleviating fuel the pandemic, HMG support has ensured that the poverty. In the sustainable warmth strategy, published corporate sector remained resilient, with the increase in February, the Government restated our commitment in indebtedness matched by an increase in net deposits. to our statutory target to upgrade as many fuel-poor As I said earlier, firms in certain sectors, such as homes as is reasonably practicable to an energy efficiency hospitality,have also received additional support through rating of at least band C by the end of 2030. The best grants of £9,000 per premises. long-term solution is to improve the energy efficiency Further temporary insolvency legislation and business of a home, bringing down the cost of heating it, but support, provided by the Government since the Covid-19 this takes time, and some, especially those that are crisis began, has resulted in far fewer insolvencies than harder to treat, may be left behind. As well as reaching would normally be expected; I outlined the figures millions of people each year, energy bill rebates are earlier to my noble friend Lord Bourne. We continue to simple to deliver and consumer-friendly. The warm monitor the impact of insolvencies on lenders’ balance home discount is therefore a key policy in our policy sheets; backed by government action, these have been mix to help alleviate fuel poverty. largely resilient to date, as have lenders’ ability and Since 2011, the warm home discount has helped willingness to lend to support economic recovery. more than 2 million low-income and vulnerable The noble Lord, Lord Lennie, asked about the scope households each year by reducing their energy bills at for wider insolvency reform. I can tell him that the the time of year when it is most needed. Under the Government always keep the insolvency regime under current scheme, around 1 million low-income pensioners review and, if any change is needed, we will not hesitate in receipt of pension credit guarantee credit receive to bring forward the necessary legislation. These the £140 warm home discount as an automatic rebate regulations will provide much-needed continued support on their energy bills and more than 1.2 million low-income for businesses as we continue with the Government’s and vulnerable households receive the rebate following four-step road map out of lockdown, allowing them to an application to their participating energy supplier. concentrate their best efforts on reopening or continuing Building on the success of the scheme, the energy to trade, and building on the foundations for our White Paper committed to extending the scheme to at economic recovery in the United Kingdom. Careful least 2025-26, expanding the overall spending envelope consideration has been given to extending these temporary to £475 million per year from 2022, and consulting on measures, and the Government will continue to monitor reforms to improve the fuel poverty targeting rate. We the situation extremely closely. intend to consult on the future scheme later this year. GC 67 Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021[18 MAY 2021] Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021 GC 68

Reforming the scheme has long lead-in times, however, and, as I have not been able to give advance notice, if and this winter we want to prioritise the safe and my noble friend cannot reply in full, I would very timely delivery of rebates to ensure that those in need much welcome a written response, if that is in order. continue to receive this vital support, particularly I particularly welcome the Government’scommitment given the continuing impacts of Covid-19. It is therefore to ending fuel poverty and declare my interest as important that minimal changes are made to the scheme president of National Energy Action. I pay tribute to for next winter. This will mean that the scheme will be NEA, which works across England, Wales and Northern worth £354 million and that eligible pensioners on Ireland to ensure that everyone in the UK can afford pension credit guarantee credit, as well as eligible to live in a warm, safe home. NEA both promotes the vulnerable households supported through the broader warm home discount rebate scheme to its clients, group, can continue to receive a £140 reduction on ensuring that those who are most in need can access it, their energy bills. and delivers broader support as part of the industry We will also not be amending the current energy initiative portion of the warm home discount. My supplier participation thresholds, as any change now, noble friend has accurately set out why this scheme is with such limited time for implementation, could cause so important, and I echo that NEA strongly supports significant, and potentially damaging, administrative passing these regulations exactly as they are set out and financial challenges for smaller energy suppliers. before us. We intend to review this for the future reform. We are, I will take this opportunity to look at some of the however, making some improvements to the industry detail beyond the welcome single-year extension. NEA initiatives part of the scheme. This includes lifting the hopes that the regulations will take effect as soon as restriction on providing financial assistance under industry possible—the scheme effectively came into force on initiatives to those eligible for a rebate, which will 1 April 2021; I think my noble friend will confirm create greater flexibility and help more people during this—and I echo its concern that the new regulations the Covid-19 pandemic. We will keep the current are urgently required to give immediate clarity to overall cap of £6 million for the energy debt write-off vulnerable energy consumers and industry participants mechanism, but we will also introduce a new individual on the shape of this scheme year. cap of £2,000, enabling support to reach a greater number of households in need. I also welcome the commitments made in the energy White Paper, which has pledged to extend and expand We will also be making changes so that proposed the warm home discount scheme, after the one-year industry initiatives and specified activities will ensure—so extension, from April 2022 to the end of March 2026 far as reasonably practicable—that advice on the benefits with an expanded scheme envelope. I hope that this of smart meters is provided to households benefiting debate enables us to look at the opportunities that these from the industry initiative or specified activity. During future developments will provide, and I take this the Covid-19 pandemic, smart meters have been invaluable opportunity to seek early clarity on the longer-term for energy consumers, allowing prepayment customers scheme. to top up remotely from home, while also enabling suppliers to offer timely support to vulnerable consumers. It is particularly welcome that, while the White Paper We are also introducing greater consumer protections does not set out too much detail, it makes a number of for boiler and central heating system installations and commitments that are to be noted and welcomed. repairs carried out under the scheme. These are a significant increase in the scheme envelope to £475 million a year from the current £350 million a Finally, we are proposing to make some further year, and an increase in the rebate from £140 to £150. I operational changes this year. This includes introducing also welcome consulting on reforms to improve fuel a requirement for the Gas and Electricity Markets poverty targeting; for example, using government data Authority to inform the Secretary of State if an electricity to provide automatic rebates to most recipients. supplier which becomes a supplier of last resort notifies the authority of its intention to meet all or part of a There are some concerns expressed by NEA about failed supplier’s non-core spending obligation. This the detail, which I hope can be resolved at the earliest additionally includes making changes to clarify the opportunity, certainly before the end of this one-year full extent of a smaller supplier’s scheme obligations extension and forthcoming consultation. The only when it passes the relevant threshold and becomes clarity over the future of the industry initiative portion newly subject to the non-core spending obligation. of the scheme was a commitment from the Minister in In conclusion, the regulations extend the warm the corresponding debate to today when these regulations home discount until March 2022, which will help were raised in the Commons: more than 2.2 million households next winter. These “The reform consultations later this year will include industry regulations will provide vital support for low-income initiatives.”—[Official Report, Commons, 27/4/21; col. 315.] and vulnerable customers to keep warm, in advance of Industry initiatives are particularly important to consulting on wider scheme reform from 2022. I commend deliver significant value for the most vulnerable these regulations to the Committee. households. It is argued that they must be retained for the current level of energy advice, income advice and fuel vouchers to be preserved. Therefore, I hope that, 4.25 pm as part of this debate, my noble friend is able to Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con): My Lords, I confirm and agree that the industry initiative scheme am delighted to speak in support of the regulations is of significant value and that, as far as the Government before us and thank my noble friend for setting them are concerned, this vital element will continue or be out so clearly. I have a number of technical questions further expanded. GC 69 Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021[LORDS] Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021 GC 70

[BARONESS MCINTOSH OF PICKERING] I wonder if the Minister could tell us a little, first, I want to raise on behalf of National Energy Action about the way in which this statutory instrument has its concern about the intention to improve fuel poverty been dealt with. My understanding is that these measures targeting. In the impact assessment for the recent have come into force already; I think they did so on consultation on the one-year extension of the scheme 31 March. It is obviously slightly concerning that we before us today, BEIS set out the fuel poverty hit rate are debating issues which are already in operation. for the current core group and the broader group Secondly, in her response can she explain to me, in a based on the England-only fuel poverty “low income way that I did not quite gather from the Explanatory high costs”definition, which has been recently adjusted. Memorandum, what happens where the supplier of While it is important that the poorest fuel-poor households last resort does not take on the obligations? I understand can access future warm home discount rebates, this that part of the purpose of these regulations is to analysis implies the possibility of withdrawing support try to encourage that, but what happens in those from the current core group and the broader group circumstances? recipients. If that is the case, it could prove detrimental As noble Lords will know, the warm homes discount to households that currently receive the rebate, in was introduced in 2011, during the coalition Government, particular current core group pensioner recipients or to help tackle fuel poverty by placing obligations on low-income-household recipients who require support energy suppliers. But in the 10 years since then, significant with their energy bills via the broader group but who costs have been placed on bills because the cost of do not fall within the new fuel poverty metric for power sector decarbonisation has been funded pretty England: those with income less than 60% of the much entirely through them. This is obviously a highly median living in poverty with an EPC of D, E, F or G. regressive way of addressing the problems of climate Taking rebates away from the core group would remove change—an issue that is, after all, critical to us all and support from the poorest pensioners, which I am sure to which the wealthiest, in fact, contribute the most in is not the Government’s intention. Whether captured emissions. The fact that those on low incomes are within the England-only fuel poverty metric or not, having to pay a disproportionate share of that burden poorer recipients within the broader group could also seems the wrong starting point. face significant health risks when living in cold homes. Not only that, but the impact assessment states that The current discount doubtless helps mitigate such the cost of the warm homes discount is met by energy risks. I therefore request on behalf of NEA that the suppliers. Of course, that is not really correct: it is met Minister share with us how these potential risks will by energy consumers, because those costs are passed be mitigated and how the department expects to do so. on by the suppliers to the consumers. This means that While it is important that we value the contribution it is, again, an extremely regressive—and in my view that the warm home discount scheme makes in supporting inappropriate—way of paying to tackle fuel poverty if the Government’s wider fuel poverty commitments, it burdens costs in a disproportionate way on others the NEA specifically does not support one-off energy who may find them difficult to pay. We have to look rebates counting towards progress to meet statutory again at the whole way in which we share fairly the energy-efficient fuel poverty targets.The current approach burden of decarbonisation and how we support those considers whether a household receives the warm home in fuel poverty out of it. discount and, if so, treats the rebate as an energy-saving measure. This means that the energy-efficient fuel The most sustainable way of addressing fuel poverty— poverty target can be reached in part through giving the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, touched on this—is rebates to households. As rebates do not necessarily to ensure that everybody lives in the most energy-efficient deliver the same lasting benefits as energy-efficiency buildings. We are otherwise literally letting our money improvements, NEA believes it important that the go up in smoke, which is why it is particularly unfortunate warm home discount scheme does not potentially if the rebate is treated as an energy-saving measure. mask a lack of progress in increasing levels of domestic Again, the impact assessment gives an indication of energy efficiency in fuel-poor homes. the increased emissions as a result of these measures. While we accept and welcome the safe passage of a Can the Minister give us in her response, or else put one-year extension, which will be secured through the it in writing, a breakdown of the EPC rating of all the regulations before us today, these issues should be homes where households are in receipt of the warm addressed to ensure the future of the scheme. I welcome homes discount? She reminded us that the Government the regulations. I congratulate the Government on have committed to improving the homes of those in their ambitions, and hope that my concerns will be fuel poverty to EPC band C by 2030, while the heard. Explanatory Memorandum reminds us that the Energy White Paper committed to all homes reaching band C 4.33 pm by 2035. That is an incredibly unambitious target. The Liberal Democrats have set out a target that we should Lord Oates (LD): My Lords, I thank the Minister reach that point by 2025, but we should note also that for her introduction to the regulations. It is always a even the unambitious target set by the Government is pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh caveated by the words of Pickering, who raised a number of very important questions. If the Minister is unable to answer them “where practical, cost-effective and affordable”. immediately, I hope that any answers in writing will be At some point, the Government will have to recognise copied to the Committee, in particular in relation to that there is no point setting the highly ambitious the rebate being covered as an energy-saving measure, targets that they have—a 68% reduction in emissions which is clearly a counterproductive approach. of greenhouse gases on 1990 levels by 2030, or the GC 71 Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021[18 MAY 2021] Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021 GC 72

78% reduction by 2035, or achieving net zero by 2050— used to write off historic bad debt from previous if they will not match those targets with ambitious actions. versions of the scheme with unfortunate outcomes is The Minister knows that the one cannot be achieved one for specific case-by-case analysis. without the other. She also knows that these targets of Nevertheless, I have some questions around this 68%, 78% and net zero are absolute targets and individual cap. How many individual cases of bad commitments; they are not caveated in the way that debt have been eliminated and from what total? Was the Energy White Paper caveated the energy efficiency there evidence of disparity in higher bands of debt ambition. across any analysis of banding debts with the number I ask the Minister in her reply to confirm specifically of individual cases? It would be interesting to understand that those targets are not subject to those sorts of whether the element of previous and new bad debts caveats but absolute targets, and to recognise that if was being eliminated, with the stress for many vulnerable we are to have any hope of meeting them, our actions customers recognised and dealt with realistically.Further have to be much more ambitious. That has got to start recognition can be given to the improvements in these with the energy efficiency of fuel-poor homes. We have regulations, removing restrictions on energy suppliers to make much more rapid progress on that. All the that prevented them providing additional financial time we fail to do that, we—the consumers—are having assistance through industry initiatives to domestic to pay out costs to support those in fuel poverty who consumers eligible in the core and broader groups—with continue to burn excess amounts of fuel in homes that rebates, advice and specified activities, including benefits are not properly insulated. for smart meters and consumer protection requirements We have to recognise that the world has 79 months for boiler installations to be provided under the TrustMark at the current rate, at the current burn level, before we scheme. have used up the carbon budget to keep us within the It is also encouraging that the regulations include 1.5 degrees aim of the Paris agreement. We do not provisions such that when a voluntary or compulsory have the luxury of time. Much will rely on future smaller electricity supplier grows to pass the relevant technologies, but on the things that we know how to supplier threshold and becomes a larger energy supplier do we must act much more swiftly and ambitiously. its core group rebates, undelivered previously,are utilised As I say, our actions must be as ambitious as our consistently with the fully obligated suppliers and that targets. all funds for rebates are used to help those in need. Having said that, obviously we support the alleviation However,some benefits and improvements, unfortunately, of fuel poverty and, in the absence of a more progressive still need consideration and further development. scheme, welcome the renewal of the warm home discount For example, when a supplier fails and its licence is and the increases in rebates. However, I urge the revoked, the scheme’s obligations on that licence also Minister and the Government to really get on to the fall, meaning that there is no obligation on whoever issue of the energy efficiency of our buildings. We steps in as a supplier of last resort—or SoLR. If I simply cannot proceed on the current timetable. understand the regulations correctly,if they had included provision that whoever this might be could deduct 4.42 pm such a technical overspend from future scheme years, they could incentivise any supplier of last resort to take Lord Grantchester (Lab): I thank the Minister for a on the spending obligations of failed suppliers voluntarily. clear explanation of the regulations before the Committee. The provision would bring greater consistency with that From these Benches we are happy to approve the regarding suppliers whose growth is allowed for, as I instrument, as it extends the warm home discount for have mentioned. The scheme would be further improved. another year. As it has been a successful scheme, what Can the Minister say whether I have this correct and is there that we could not welcome in the extension for see whether it could be addressed in future years? at least a further year, with a government commitment to continuing the scheme until 2026, albeit that new It was also unfortunate that a consultation proved arrangements,with details and provisions as yet unknown, negative towards the proposal that supplier participation are envisaged to come into place from that point? thresholds should be changed. While respecting the The scheme, now in its 11th year, will continue to view that, given the pandemic and the disruptions it provide a guaranteed £140 for to help those in fuel has caused throughout 2020, the main elements of the poverty and in vulnerable circumstances with their scheme should remain consistent in this one-year fuel bills. Before I challenge any assumptions or possible extension, it causes competitive issues and distortions. intentions of the Government in shaping the future Some smaller energy suppliers can offer lower tariffs scheme, let us recognise that these regulations maintain as they do not have to take part in a scheme. There are existing benefits with minor improvements in some also consumer issues; a consumer may switch to a respects. They maintain the overriding approach agreed smaller supplier on price and then lose the benefit that by participants in the consultation: to allow as many he or she could be entitled to and receive with a larger eligible consumers as possible to receive support within supplier. Does the Minister have any figures or evidence the funding envelope. That this funding envelope has on this latent cost? been increased to £354 million—the noble Baroness, The consultation also adjudges as unimplementable Lady McIntosh, has a higher figure—in line with the the proposal to require failing suppliers to provide rises in inflation is another important benefit. The data on unpaid rebates and industry initiative spending regulations maintain the current £6 billion total debt to TrustMark, to integrate it with its framework operating write-off cap provision, while introducing a £2,000 cap requirements. This can be extremely frustrating for for individual debt write-off—although how far that is participating consumers who miss out through no GC 73 Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021[LORDS] Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021 GC 74

[LORD GRANTCHESTER] from providing better financial assistance to more fault of their own. While we understand the practicality households that already miss out on their entitlements. of the measures and the direction of travel for future This inevitably means that there will be some losers regulations, will the Minister take the issue back to the and that some households will receive less help than department and can further consideration be given for they currently do. Can the Minister confirm that industry future developments? initiatives will remain a key part of the current and Many operability improvements also included in future schemes? Will the department look at how the the measure could well be mentioned. All these measures budget could be expanded for this element that seeks will come with compliance costs and administrative to help consumers understand and utilise their burdens, which impacted businesses can recover under entitlements? It would provide a welcome boost of the scheme through charges to domestic consumers. confidence to the industry to develop these initiatives. The impact on the public sector is also discussed as There is much here for further consideration in my very small—around £2 million for scheme year 11, in a approval of the continuation of the warm home discount total estimated cost of £10 million. However, the impact scheme. assessment fails to examine the added cost that will be passed on to consumers by energy suppliers. Can the 4.53 pm Minister provide any details on the measure’s effect on consumer pricing? What is the status quo cost of the Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): My discount scheme on pricing and what may be the Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their valuable added cost specific to this extension? contributions to this debate, particularly coming from people whom, I know, have long been interested in this I would like the Minister to address some other subject and have a greater degree of knowledge than serious issues. The Energy White Paper of 2020 sets often happens in these short debates. out the commitment to make and keep energy bills The points made show the importance of extending affordable, and to ensure that households in fuel poverty the warm home discount scheme for a further year. are not left behind in upgrading energy efficiency The financial pressures that Covid-19 has imposed on ratings on their homes, with the long-term reductions households across the country has been challenging, in energy costs this would bring. particularly for low-income and vulnerable households. One feature of the regulations is that they categorise Extending the warm home discount will provide much- one-off energy rebates to many vulnerable households needed support for households in or at risk of fuel poverty, as improvements in energy efficiency and progress particularly during the pandemic. I am therefore pleased towards reaching statutory energy efficiency targets. that there is agreement across this Committee that However, as has been stated by other contributors to low-income and vulnerable households should continue this debate, rebates are not necessarily delivering lasting to receive the valuable support provided by the warm benefits in the same way as would be provided by energy home discount at the time when they need it most. efficiency improvements. The sustainable warmth part Over the 10 years of the discount scheme, more of the warm home scheme can mask a lack of progress than £3 billion in direct assistance has been provided on increasing levels of domestic energy efficiency in to low-income and vulnerable households. These fuel-poor homes. The future design of the scheme regulations will enable the continuation of this support must correct this interpretation. It is regretted that the for another winter. This means that more than 1 million green homes grant was such a dismal failure and had of the poorest pensioners and a further 1.2 million to be scrapped merely six months after its launch. households in or at risk of fuel poverty will continue to receive £140 off their energy bills. How will the Government align the warm home discount scheme with their legal commitment to net The regulations also allow for the continuation of a zero? What plans do they have to address the urgent wide range of industry initiatives, including debt write-off, problem of below EPC standard band C homes,especially financial assistance and energy efficiency measures. those of the fuel poor with generally less available These initiatives will be enhanced by the changes I income? What is the Government’s view of Scotland’s have outlined, ensuring that we can better support wider interpretation of the 10% indicator in assessing households in need. fuel poverty? What are their plans and what thoughts As outlined in the energy White Paper, we are do they have on reassessing and redesigning the scheme? committed to extending the scheme beyond this extension, from 2022 until at least 2025-26, expanding the spending The Minister said in her introductory remarks that envelope to £475 million to enable us to reach a further 1.2 million households received the £140 rebate. How 750,000 households. We are also consulting on reform many do the Government expect to receive the rebate of the scheme to target fuel poverty better. This may in the next year? What will success look like to the be where the difference in numbers came from— Government in addressing the route to eliminating the scheme has expanded from next year. We intend to fuel poverty by 2035? What measures will the Government consult later this year on the future scheme beyond 2022. put in place to ensure that net zero is delivered fairly to those living in fuel poverty? When will the promised I pay tribute to the long-standing commitment of consultation start and when will the Government lay my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering to this out their proposals? whole area of alleviating fuel poverty.I am very grateful for her support. She asked for confirmation of the Already there are concerns when the Government industry initiatives—they are of significant value—and talk of refining the scheme towards better targeting of whether they will be continued or expanded under the the fuel poor when the budget was already constrained reformed scheme. We recognise the value of industry GC 75 Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021[18 MAY 2021] Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021 GC 76 initiatives, which is why we have expanded their potential proportion than it increases income. We also believe use over time. We will consult on reforms later this that it is more likely to result in households using more year; that will include proposals on industry initiatives. energy to keep warm in winter and reduces the risk of them rationing how much they heat their homes or In response to my noble friend’s question about the self-disconnecting entirely. future for vulnerable customers in relation to the new fuel poverty metric, we intend to reform the scheme to In response to the noble Lord’s question on the target those most likely to be in fuel poverty while EPC ratings of homes that have received the warm continuing to protect the most vulnerable current home discount, I am afraid that we do not have the recipients. Our proposals, which we are still finalising, data he requires. He also spoke in general terms about will include options to mitigate the impact on households the Government’s ambitions on increasing the efficiency that may be disadvantaged by those reforms. My of homes and their heating. On this point, I should say noble friend also asked about the rebate contributing that the heat and building strategy will be published to the Government’s fuel poverty and energy efficiency imminently, setting out how we intend to meet our targets. We are increasing energy efficiency support for commitments and setting us on a path to decarbonising fuel-poor homes through the future expansion of the homes and buildings by 2050. When I say “imminently”, energy company obligation, as well as through recently I know it is disappointing that we have not got it out introduced funding through local authority delivery. already, but it is due to be published soon. I suggest that I write to the noble Lord, Werecognise that energy efficiency is the best long-term Lord Grantchester, on the details of writing off bad method of tackling fuel poverty, which is why in the debt as I do not have that data in my briefing pack or past year we have increased government investment to to hand. In response to his question on the supplier of make homes more energy efficient and committed to last resort process, the obligation is tied to the supplier’s extending and expanding the energy company obligation. licence but, thus far, the new suppliers have voluntarily We should also recognise, however, that reducing bills taken on these obligations. through the warm home discount will continue to be a crucial tool in reducing fuel poverty until all homes In response to the noble Lord’squestion on TrustMark, reach the required energy efficiency standard. I know we are introducing new requirements for the installation that this point was of particular concern to the noble and repair of boilers and central heating under industry Lord, Lord Oates. In response to his question on the initiatives. They are to be delivered by TrustMark- timing of the regulations, they have not come into registered installers and lodged in TrustMark’s data force; the rebates will be paid only from autumn this warehouse. This will provide greater consumer protection year, as is always the case. We have said that, if and for households. The cost for a company to register when these regulations come into force, any industry under TrustMark is minimal. TrustMark also has a fee initiatives that have already been funded from 1 April for installers to lodge measures in their data warehouse. 2021 and are subsequently approved will count towards As with other government schemes, the fee is £30, suppliers’ obligations. which covers the costs associated with providing technical monitoring and quality assurance. Requiring TrustMark On the noble Lord’s question on the supplier of last registration will ensure that boilers and central heating resort process, the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets systems installed under the scheme are delivered to a already has in place a process that ensures that customers high standard, providing households with security have continuity of energy supply when an energy and a longer-term solution. The introduction of these supplier fails. The competitive process is run by Ofgem standards is particularly beneficial for those who are and allows for the orderly transfer of the failing energy particularly vulnerable to cold, such as individuals supplier’s customers to a different energy supplier. with a health condition. Warm home discount obligations are placed on the electricity supply licence and, when a supplier fails, it On the noble Lord’s question about consumer costs, does not transfer to the new supplier. However, the the expansion from 2022 is expected to add £5 to the warm home discount is taken into consideration when average annual dual fuel bill, taking the total to £19 per Ofgem appoints a supplier of last resort. In previous annum. scheme years, suppliers of last resort who were themselves The noble Lord asked about the definition of fuel warm home discount participants have chosen voluntarily poverty in Scotland. Fuel poverty is devolved and it is to honour the obligations to pay rebates of the failing up to Scottish Ministers to set their definition of fuel energy supplier.This information requirement is intended poverty and targets. We believe that our definition is to facilitate the potential to permit any notifying suppliers best suited to measuring the problem and progress of last resort to deduct extra non-core overspend from against it in England. In the next scheme year, we their non-core spending obligation in future scheme expect around 2.2 million rebates to be provided. years, which in turn would incentivise suppliers of last resort to take on the non-core spending obligations of The noble Lord also asked about the contribution failed suppliers voluntarily. of measures to eliminating fuel poverty by 2035. Our target is to improve as many fuel-poor homes as is The noble Lord also asked about the funding of the reasonably practical to an energy efficiency rating of scheme. Suppliers reducing their customers’bills directly Band C by 2030. I can also confirm that we will is a more effective way of tackling fuel poverty than publish our consultation on the future of the scheme increasing incomes because consumers are more likely soon. Wewill consult on the future of industry initiatives to use the money to pay their energy bills. The same as part of this but, as I have already said, we value amount of money reduces energy bills by a greater industry initiatives. GC 77 Warm Home Discount Regulations 2021[LORDS] Electricity Trading Regulations 2021 GC 78

[BARONESS BLOOMFIELD OF HINTON WALDRIST] together. This will ensure that Great Britain can import I think I missed out the green homes grant and energy from areas of lower price or export energy to local authority delivery. Last summer, the Chancellor areas of higher price more readily than under current announced an investment of up to £3 billion in interim arrangements. This will be achieved while the decarbonising buildings, including investments towards energy market in Great Britain maintains independence the £9.2 billion of funding set out in our manifesto. from EU regulations. We have made excellent progress across much of this investment, with substantial sums being invested in While the agreement sets out the principles for the social housing, schools and hospitals as well as in design of the new trading arrangements, the detailed homes through the green homes grant voucher scheme, technical procedures still need to be developed by particularly in partnership with local authorities and transmission system operators. These are, collectively, supporting local green jobs. I think the noble Lord, the companies that own and operate electricity Lord Oates, asked about this. interconnectors that connect the UK to neighbouring I think that that completes the debate. I commend markets, and the electricity system operator that runs the regulations to the Committee. our onshore electricity network. The development of these new arrangements will need to take place in Motion agreed. co-operation with relevant electricity market operators, which are organisations that operate marketplaces for 5.03 pm the buying and selling of electricity. Sitting suspended. The agreement details the timeframes for transmission system operators to develop technical procedures for Arrangement of Business the new arrangements, noting that new arrangements Announcement should be made operational by April 2022. It is therefore important that development of the new arrangements 5.13 pm takes place quickly and efficiently. To support this development, this instrument imposes duties on electricity The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness transmission system operators in Great Britain, with Fookes) (Con): My Lords, the hybrid Grand Committee co-operation from relevant electricity market operators, will now resume. I ask Members in the Room to to develop the new cross-border electricity trading respect social distancing. The time limit for debate on arrangements for the day-ahead market period. the following statutory instrument is one hour. The instrument also grants Ofgem the ability to Electricity Trading (Development of regulate transmission system operators and relevant electricity market operators in their development of Technical Procedures) (Day-Ahead Market the new trading arrangements to ensure that they meet Timeframe) Regulations 2021 their obligations under the regulations. The instrument Considered in Grand Committee further enables Ofgem to make decisions on the allocation and recovery of costs incurred in the development of 5.13 pm the new arrangements. It is estimated that these new, Moved by Lord Callanan efficient trading arrangements could bring significant economic benefits to UK consumers. Any delay in TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department implementation will come at a cost to them. Therefore, forBusiness,EnergyandIndustrialStrategy(LordCallanan) it is important that this instrument is approved to (Con): My Lords, the regulations were laid before the ensure that transmission system operators develop the House on 22 March. This instrument is brought forward new arrangements within the timeframes set by the usingpowersundertheEuropeanUnion(FutureRelationship) agreement and that the benefits can be realised as Act 2020. early as possible. The trade and co-operation agreement that we have The new arrangements will also be used for trade secured with the European Union provides for between Great Britain and the single electricity market co-operation on a range of energy matters to support on the island of Ireland. While energy is largely a and strengthen the UK’s and EU’s shared energy devolved matter in Northern Ireland, my department objectives. The agreement requires that new, efficient has developed this instrument in close collaboration cross-border electricity trading arrangements be developed with officials in the Northern Ireland Department for between connected UK and EU markets. The UK and the Economy and the Northern Ireland Authority for the EU are committed to co-operating closely on Utility Regulation. Input from our colleagues in Northern efficient trading developed in accordance with the Ireland has ensured that this instrument supports a process and timeline set out in the agreement. UK-wide approach to the development of the new These new arrangements were a key objective for arrangements. The process continues to be underpinned the UK during the negotiations on the agreement. by extensive engagement with UK industry and Efficient cross-border trade can lower bills for UK stakeholders, including Ofgem and the Northern Ireland consumers, as well as support our decarbonisation Utility Regulator, to ensure they can prepare for the and security-of-supply objectives. The new arrangements development and implementation of new arrangements. will be based on the concept of multi-region loose My department has regular conversations with the volumecoupling,wherecross-bordertransmissioncapacity transmission system operators and is pleased with the on an interconnector and electricity are auctioned progress they are making. GC 79 Electricity Trading Regulations 2021[18 MAY 2021] Electricity Trading Regulations 2021 GC 80

The instrument is one part of a programme of I think the Minister confirmed in his opening remarks work to deliver the new arrangements. On 3 February, that Northern Ireland is not within the scope of the the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial regulations. That certainly seems to be the case from what Strategy provided guidance to those organisations to I have read. Northern Ireland will therefore continue encourage early action to support implementation of to be governed by the single energy market rules. He the agreement while the regulations were being prepared. has told us how he has consulted the Northern Ireland This instrument follows on from this guidance, providing Executive on these regulations, but how are the Northern a regulatory underpinning for the initial development Ireland Executive and Assembly involved and able to of the new cross-border electricity trading arrangements. make representations on the single European energy If required, the Government will prepare further legislation market, under which, if I have understood this properly, for the operation of the new trading arrangements once they are still governed? How will they be consulted as they are developed. I assure Members of the Committee we develop these proposals and what practical impact that this legislation will be laid before Parliament to will they have on them anyway, if they are part of the ensure that it can be appropriately scrutinised. single European energy market? Can he also indicate Since this instrument was laid in both Houses, the how long it will take to put the new arrangements in numbering of the provisions within the trade and place, given that they will obviously involve some co-operation agreement has been updated following fairly complex technical discussions between a range the final legal revision process. Therefore, a correction of stakeholders, domestically and within the European slip has been laid in respect of the draft instrument to Union? update the cross-references to the agreement. Paragraph 7.16 of the Explanatory Memorandum In conclusion, this instrument is an appropriate use tells us that of the powers of the European Union (Future “Placing obligations on relevant persons is not sufficient by Relationship) Act and will ensure compliance with an itself to ensure that technical procedures are developed without international treaty and that an enforcement mechanism delay” is in place to prevent delays in developing technical and that “An appropriate enforcement mechanism” is procedures for cross-border electricity trade. These therefore new trading arrangements will provide for greater “necessary to act against non-performance. The instrument applies efficiency and consumer benefits than the alternative Section 25 of the Electricity Act 1989” arrangements currently in place without the UK being in this respect. I have looked at Section 25 of the a member of the EU’s internal energy market and Electricity Act 1989 and it did not enlighten me subject to the EU regulations that that entails. I commend particularly. Can the Minister explain to us what the the regulations to the Committee. enforcement procedures under Section 25 of that Act are and what the sanctions are? Section 25 refers to the 5.20 pm notices that may be issued to relevant persons but says nothing about the sanctions if they are not complied Lord Oates (LD): My Lords, I am honoured to be with. I am happy for him to write to me on any of this in such a select group of noble Lords debating these because it is obviously a technical error. regulations. I thank the Minister for his explanation of The final question I have for the Minister is this. them. Throughout the documentation, there are references If I did not already deeply regret the UK’s exit from to the trade and co-operation agreement—the Minister the European Union, then having to get my head has explained that the references have been amended around this statutory instrument would surely have because of the changes in the final version of the converted even the most ardent Brexiteer to the most TCA. Paragraph 8 of the Explanatory Memorandum ardent remainer. We are confronted by such tortuous tells us: statements as: “This instrument does not relate to withdrawal from the “cross-border electricity trading arrangements at the day-ahead European Union.” … market timeframe that will replace previous market coupling I am slightly at a loss as to that. Can the Minister will be based on the concept of ‘multi-region loose volume coupling’, where cross-border transmission … on an interconnector explain how it does not relate to our withdrawal, when and electricity are auctioned together and the energy market in it seems so bound up with the fact that we are no Great Britain maintains independence.” longer part of the single energy market? That refers That is not even from the SI; it is from the Explanatory back to my first question: would this be happening Memorandum. anyway if we were within the European Union? Can the Minister help us out a little here, on what is obviously a fairly technical measure? Can he tell us 5.26 pm whether the proposed Lord Grantchester (Lab): I thank the Minister for “multi-region loose following coupling” his comprehensive explanation of the regulations. I also is preferable to the previous market coupling? Is this thank his colleague, the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, change between the two types of coupling taking for providing answers on interconnectors earlier during place simply between the UK and the single energy Questions. market—is it happening because we are no longer part This statutory instrument may not be contentious of the European Union and as part of the arrangements and is largely technical. However, it is not entirely under the trade and co-operation agreement—or is it uncontroversial, as we have discovered this afternoon. part of a broader change within the European single It implements provisions relating to the efficient use of energy market? electricity interconnectors and requirements to develop GC 81 Electricity Trading Regulations 2021[LORDS] Electricity Trading Regulations 2021 GC 82

[LORD GRANTCHESTER] than the current alternative arrangements without technical procedures in respect of the day-ahead market being a member of the EU internal energy market and timeframe in its operability in accordance with the subject to EU regulation. The UK and the EU are EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement that was moving to a new relationship and a continuation of initiated at short notice on 1 January this year. previous arrangements was not an option for either The instrument makes reference to many aspects party. There are new internal EU arrangements as a that need to be delivered as a consequence of the consequence of the TCA. agreement. If the Minister could outline how fast and On the questions regarding Northern Ireland, the how quickly he envisages these things being implemented, department has engaged extensively with the Northern it would be useful. The instrument makes reference to Ireland Department for the Economy and the Northern two agencies, the specialised committee on energy and Ireland electricity regulator on this instrument which the Agency for the Cooperation of Energy Regulators, obliges parties to consult Northern Ireland counterparts necessary to implement and co-ordinate powers and as required under specific stages of development. To regulations with what used to be the internal energy ensure that opinions reflect views that are specific to market across the EU, which at the time included the Northern Ireland, the instrument states that Ofgem UK. Can the Minister give any more details about must provide the Northern Ireland Utility Regulator these structures, as they will have considerable powers with relevant information and opportunities to make to ensure that transmission system operators develop appropriate representations. Ofgem must have regard arrangements that run efficiently across both the UK to those representations and ensure that they are taken and the EU through interconnectors? Does the reference into account as appropriate. to the Agency for the Cooperation of Energy Regulators On how long the new arrangements will take to put relate merely to dialogue with the EU after any into place, the anticipated deadline for implementation adjudication and consideration by Ofgem, as the authority is April 2022. All stakeholders are taking relevant and overall independent regulator within the UK, in steps to ensure that this deadline is met. In the meantime, connection with its operation of interconnectors? Will alternative electricity trading arrangements are in place the SCE be suitably independent in this structure? which will endure until a new agreed solution is What is its authority in relation to the TSOs? implemented. Since 1 January,the arrangements have been necessarily On the enforcement methods available under ad hoc, while respecting the independence of the UK Section 25, I will write to the noble Lord. from the previous internal energy market. What is the The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, asked about specific timeframe within which transmission system the SCE and ACER, the European regulator. I can tell operators must develop arrangements setting out the the noble Lord that ACER will have no formal role technical procedures? How will the Secretary of State but, of course, there are co-ordination arrangements determine this timeframe? Since 1 January, have any in the TCA that will require co-ordination between specific problems arisen, and will the powers of Ofgem UK regulators and ACER. The specialised committee be sufficient to implement all the provisions necessitated on energy plays a key role in the development of the since ending the transitional arrangements? What EU/UK electricity trading arrangements, and following assessment have the Government made of the efficiency ratification of the trade and co-operation agreement of multi-region loose volume coupling compared to by the EU we are now working with the EU formally the internal energy market’sexisting trading mechanisms? to set up the specialised committee on energy and all What material impact has there been on energy pricing associated working groups. In particular, since 1 January? What assessment have the Government made of the impact on consumer prices of the new “The Specialised Committee on Energy shall review the draft arrangements envisaged under the trade and co-operation technical procedures” agreement for new, cross-border electricity trading at submitted by November 2021 and day-ahead timeframes, such that they are deemed “shall take decisions and make recommendations” more efficient and allow appropriate trading to benefit as required by the agreement. from greater transparency? The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, asked about There are notable benefits from interconnectors. the impact on consumer prices. The cost-benefit analysis That more are envisaged can only be further insurance shows that there are significant potential benefits in that energy continues to be supplied effectively while moving to more efficient electricity trading arrangements. the huge transition to net zero, through reforms to the The cost-benefit analysis quantifies the potential social- energy market, continues. economic welfare benefits, as well as the carbon dioxide emissions savings. We welcome the CBA and outline 5.30 pm proposals that the transmission system operators have jointly produced, and are assessing these materials Lord Callanan (Con): First, I thank our two hardy together with the European Commission. We expect contributors who have stayed the course for this to provide feedback to the transmission system operators afternoon’s debate on the fascinating subject of the to support their development of the technical procedures technical operation of electricity markets. I thank that are required to be submitted to the specialised both noble Lords for their valuable contributions. committee on energy by November this year. Alternative Both noble Lords, Lord Oates and Lord Grantchester, electricity trading arrangements across all Great Britain’s raised questions about multi-regional loose volume interconnectors have already been developed, which coupling and whether that is preferable to the previous will endure until they can be replaced by the new market coupling. This model provides for greater efficiency agreed solution. GC 83 Electricity Trading Regulations 2021[18 MAY 2021] Electricity Trading Regulations 2021 GC 84

I therefore hope that I have been able to provide the the allocation and recovery of costs incurred in the necessary assurances to approve this instrument before development and implementation of the procedures. I us. The Government are committed to co-operating am pleased with the progress that the transmission closely with the EU on efficient energy trading, energy system operators have already made in developing markets and access to networks, with a deal based on these new efficient trading arrangements and assure friendly co-operation between sovereign equals. There the Committee that we will continue to take steps to is no precedent for an agreement on energy trading of facilitate their implementation. this nature between the EU and a third country. As I said earlier, we will continue to work extensively The UK and EU are moving to a new relationship. with the Northern Ireland Department for the Economy, As of 1 January this year, trading between Great Ofgem, the Northern Ireland Utility Regulator and Britain and the internal energy market on the day-ahead the UK industry to ensure that we see the benefits of market ceased. Until new arrangements are operational, the new arrangements as quickly and effectively as trading will continue using what we feel are less efficient possible. The agreement notes that new arrangements explicit auctions. The UK and EU are committed to should be operational by April 2022. This is a challenging developing and implementing a robust and efficient deadline, but adherence to it will enable us to realise solution that will facilitate efficient electricity trade the benefits to consumers from the arrangements as across interconnectors. As said earlier, these will be quickly as possible. I commend this draft instrument based on the concept of the famous multi-region loose to the Committee. volume coupling, allowing transmission system capacity on an interconnector and electricity to be auctioned Motion agreed. together and the energy market in Great Britain to maintain independence. The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Henig) The regulations that the Government are seeking to (Lab): That completes the business before the Grand introduce will oblige transmission system operators to Committee this afternoon. I remind Members to sanitise develop new efficient cross-border electricity trading their desks and chairs before leaving the Room. arrangements under the TCA with the EU. They will also enable Ofgem to take the necessary decisions on Committee adjourned at 5.37 pm.