This document is from the collections at the Dole Archives, University of Kansas. http://dolearchives.ku.edu ROBERT J. DOLE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interview with Sen. ROBERT J. DOLE May 11, 2007 Interviewer Richard Norton Smith Robert J. Dole Institute of Politics 2350 Petefish Drive Lawrence, KS 66045 Phone: (785) 864-4900 Fax: (785) 864-1414 This document is from the collections at the Dole Archives, University of Kansas. http://dolearchives.ku.edu Dole 5-11-07—p. 2 Smith: First of all, the major thrust of all of this is to look at your Senate career, but obviously you can’t isolate that, and that overlaps a whole lot of things. What I thought, before you were a senator, you were a legislator, obviously in the House and even before that in the Kansas House. How did you get into politics? Dole: Well, we had a law librarian, whose name was Beth Bowers [phonetic], a Democrat who thought young people ought to be involved in public policy, politics, and she kept talking to us. We’d go down and study, and she’d talk to us, very nice lady, and I think she convinced—I think there were four of us—to run for state legislature. That was way back in 1950. Smith: You were at Washburn [University]. Dole: Right. She was the Washburn Law School law librarian. So we gave it a shot, and I ran against a fellow named [Elmo J.] Mahoney, who thought he was going to be governor one of these days, and here I was some young upstart, didn’t know anything about politics, didn’t know much about parties, and here I ran against him, and I think largely because of my veteran status and all that, you know, I prevailed, plus even then Russell County was filled with Republicans. Smith: But this was not something you thought about when you were in the hospital after the War? Dole: No, no. Dan [Sen. Daniel K.] Inouye tells the story that we talked about this when we were in the hospital in Battle Creek, Michigan, that I laid out a scenario that what w-e ought to do is get out and get into public service and run for Congress, and I said, well, if he says so, it’s okay with me, but I don’t recall it. I remember when I was in Russell recuperating when I was on leave from Battle Creek Hospital [Percy Jones Army Medical Center, Battle Creek, Mich.], and then when I was discharged, both parties were looking for veterans to run for office, and I remember talking with the Democratic leader, a fellow named Clifford Holland who had made a run at Congress and lost, and a young attorney named John Woelk, Republican, and they both This document is from the collections at the Dole Archives, University of Kansas. http://dolearchives.ku.edu Dole 5-11-07—p. 3 wanted me to run in their party, but I somehow chose the Republican Party; I guess my relationship with Woelk. Smith: Your parents, I think, had been Democrats. Dole: Yes, I think they switched. Clifford Holland, when he ran for Congress, switched a lot of people in our little hometown, and in Russell whether you’re an R or a D didn’t really make much difference. I mean, you know, if you knew the person, they were your neighbor, they didn’t care whether it was Democrat or Republican. I mean, people were really active in politics, but most people then were pretty laid back and didn’t stay up all night watching the talk shows. There weren’t any talk shows. We watched what’s-his- name [John R.] Brinkley, you know, the goat-gland specialist. That was our radio show. Smith: What was your first campaign like? I assume you didn’t have much money. Dole: Had hardly any money. It was all—when you talk about grass roots, I mean, it was grass roots, I mean going from door to door, little town to little town, in and out of businesses, printing little cards that didn’t say much, have your picture, your name, “running for state representative.” I think it said “native, veteran,” something else. About three words. That’s about all you did. That was about it. Just a lot of shoe leather. Smith: I assume you’re building an organization, family, friends, one person at a time. Dole: [laughs] It wasn’t very big. Really, when I ran for Congress, we really had an organization, but in the early days, running for state legislature and then later county attorney, it was pretty much solo. I mean, you had some friends who were—but I don’t know, as far as people giving you money, I can’t even recall getting any money from anybody running for county attorney or state legislature. Somebody may have given me ten dollars or twenty dollars, which was— This document is from the collections at the Dole Archives, University of Kansas. http://dolearchives.ku.edu Dole 5-11-07—p. 4 Smith: I remember you saying—I think it’s in the book, or one of the books—I think the first time you had to go up and knock on someone’s door, a stranger’s door, it wasn’t easy. Dole: Wasn’t easy because in some ways I was sort of reserved anyway. You know, my parents taught us to respect your elders and keep quiet until you’re spoken to and all this. So to knock on someone’s door and say, “I’m Bob Dole. I’d like you to vote for me,” and da-da-da, it’s like anything else, right? After you knock on a hundred doors, it’s pretty easy. All you worry about is some dog coming around the corner, and I’ve had a few of those things happen, which always keep you awake but keep you alert. I didn’t know at the time, but I’ve learned since, probably only about every fourth door you knocked on in a primary voted anyway, so you knock on three doors, you waste a lot of time. Smith: Were people generally pretty nice? Dole: Oh yes, they were very nice. Coming back from World War II, having been wounded, you know, whether Democrats or Republicans, the whole country was united. It’s not like today. World War II vets were sort of up on a pedestal, maybe not all deserved, but that’s where they were. So everybody was nice to everybody because everybody had somebody involved, either raising wheat to feed us in the military or working in a little factory or being in uniform. So almost everybody, even the rationing, everybody participated in some way. Everybody made a little sacrifice as opposed to today when only the families and the people directly involved sacrifice. Smith: Do you remember election night? Dole: I kind of have a vague recollection of particularly the legislative race. I can’t remember how much I won by, but it was a pretty good margin, several hundred votes, as I remember. Smith: Yes. This document is from the collections at the Dole Archives, University of Kansas. http://dolearchives.ku.edu Dole 5-11-07—p. 5 Dole: I think I might have been in the old Russell Record Office. They kind of got the news. Or I might have been—I wasn’t at the courthouse. You’d call in the results to the county clerk, and the reporter would check with the county clerk. It was not very high tech those days. Smith: It was more fun. Dole: More fun. You’d have to wait for Paradise—sounds like a great place to get votes—Paradise get their votes in. They didn’t have very many people voting. Of course, Russell was always the key, and I lived in Ward 1. I don’t think he carried any wards in Russell. I’m not sure he carried any wards anywhere. Smith: So what was Topeka like? I mean the whole legislative environment. You’re a freshman, newcomer, first office. Dole: I didn’t have a clue about anything. Was in law school, and let’s see. There were at least two others elected out of the four. I think there were three of us, one Republican named [Clyde N.] Wilson and a Democrat—can’t remember his name. But I don’t know, Ed [Edward F.] Arn was governor then. It was a part-time legislature. I remember I was on Taxation Committee, equivalent to what we call Ways and Means or Finance Committee, and the chairman was a fellow named Tony Emmel [phonetic], who’s still alive and lives in [unclear], Kansas, a longtime friend. I was only there two years, and I can’t remember making any great speeches. I sort of recollect that I did get up one day and disagree strongly with the governor, which we didn’t do in those days. If you were a Republican and you had Ed Arn, the governor, whoever, you followed the party line or kept quiet. Smith: In those days there were only two parties in Kansas. Dole: Right. The Populist Party was long before. This document is from the collections at the Dole Archives, University of Kansas. http://dolearchives.ku.edu Dole 5-11-07—p. 6 Smith: Were you nervous initially? Dole: Oh, I think so. I had to be, yes, because what little I knew about politics could ride on the head of a pin.