Muriel Duckworth, Peace Worker

An Intervie W by Christine Ball

Muriel Duckworth is one of the found- knew something about me. She thought I Yes. At that meeting, we began planning ers of the Voice of Women in Halifax. could organize and she phoned me. We the public meeting so that was how I fist Since 1962,she has served as a member of had the first meeting in my living room. I got into [the Voice of Women]. .. That the National Council of the Voice of was quite resistant; I had just taken this was 1960. It was founded in 1960 and it Women/LaVoix des Femmes, Canada, as first full-time job and I said to myself spread very rapidly across the country. It Chairperson of the National Education "who needs another organization?". ..I was founded in Toronto in response to a Committee and as Vice-President and wasn't really looking for another organi- crisis in the Peace Talks in Paris. In the National President of the Voice of zation to belong to. Kay said she had the middle of peace talks, word came out Women. She has played a major role in same feeling. about the shooting down of theU2 Ameri- the creation of several organizations, can spy plane with its pilot, Gary Power, including the Canadian Association for The samefeeling? That was at the time the over the Soviet Union. Of course, the US the Advancement of Women and Sport Voice of Womenformed in 1960...? denied it. Eisenhower was the President. and the Canadian Research Institute for He denied up and down, which is what the Advancement of Women. She is a In 1960. Anyway, we had the first meet- they do. We didn't know at the time that's recipient of the Persons Award (1981), ing in our house. The living room was routine; they deny .. . [Khruschev] broke and the Order of Canada (1983). The packed, about 25 women came. Margaret up the peace talks and went home. Every- following are excerpts from two inter- Colpitts, known professionally as Joan body was very afraid. Everybody thought views with Muriel Duckworth which took Marshall, who was then a women's mom- that meant that there was immediate risk place on October 23rd and 24th, 1986, at ing commentary on the CBC -they used of nuclear war. You understand that by Kay Macpherson's home in Toronto. to have them all across the country, this time, people hadbegun to realize that, Christine Ball, a Ph.D. student at the 'women's morning commentators' on all in spite of the temble destructiveness of Ontario Institute for Studies inEducation, kinds of issues -we asked her to chair it the atomic bombs, they were going ahead interviewed Muriel. and she did. Then we immediately had an with planning and making even more issue just dropped in our laps. Word came powerful nuclear bombs. This knowledge How didyou hear of the Voice of Women? out that theunited States was considering as it seeped out took the place of the the dumping of nuclear waste off the coast feeling that there could never be another I heard about it on the radio because it of Nova Scotia into the ocean. People nuclear war because it would be too aw- started off with quite a bang in Toronto. A didn't know very much about it but they ful. There was this incident in the South lot of media women were involved and knew enough to be incensed from a na- Pacific where the Japanese fishing boat there was a lot of talk about it but I didn't tionalistic point of view that they would was showered with radioactive fall-out think of it affecting me. I then heard about think that they could dump nuclear waste and one man died and the Japanese peace it from Peggy Hope-Simpson, who lived in our water and we knew that they were movement came alive. Then, the testing, in Dartmouth, N.S.,at the time. I was 52 doing it because there would be too much and the risks of testing, became very clear years old and I had just taken on the first of a fuss for them to do it off the coast of from the testing in the Nevada full-time job of my life working for the Maine or any other place along the East- Desert ...My first grandchildren were Adult Education Division [Department of em seaboard. Harold Hathaway, in charge born in Sackville, New Brunswick in Education, Province of Nova Scotia] of Public Affairs, at CBC Halifax, got in 1959 and the fallout from Nevada was when Peggy phoned me. To back up a touch with us about it. Because he was coming across the border as well as caus- little bit, David Hope-Simpson her hus- highly incensed, he helped with publicity. ing death and destruction in the United band, and she, and my husband and I were We had a good meeting in a school gym, States. involved in an anti-nuclear testing move- a lot of people, television coverage, and a ment at the time ...Somebody from lot of radio coverage, and in the end they So, these were all the factors around that Toronto wrote to David Hope-Simpson didn't do it. Whether our meeting had time that were considerations? and said "do you know any women.. .who anything to do with it or not, of course, we would help to organize?" ...he didn't don't know, but they never did do it. Fallout was a big factor; so was the danger think of her doing it and she said "Well, of nuclear war, without a real realization I'd like to be in on that myself." Shedidn't Was this after thefirst meeting with the 25 of how temble it would be but with some have much time. She thought of me. I women? sense of it. Then, Lotta Dempsey, a news- don't think we knew each other, but she paper woman in Toronto, writing [in] The

CANADIAN WOMAN STUDIES/LES CAHIERS DE LA FEMME 42 Toronto Star saidUWhereare the women? moved with her husband and children to peaceable solutions, the general atti- Why aren't the women doing something from Montreal to Halifax in 1%1. They tude of decisions by consensus.. .And it about this temble situation? Half the immediately set up a Quaker meeting in was the simplicity of their belief in the people in the world are women." Then their house and they invited us to come. At "Inner Light" and their belief "that God in came the organization [Voice of that time we were active members of the every person." I was with the Quakers for Women]. ..I had heard that there was the United Church of Canada which did not many, many years but I didn't join. beginning of a women's peace movement have any kind of peace witness - it was Within me, there was this very funny sort in Toronto before that. That women had really pretty shocking. The then Modera- of inverted argument. I didn't want people begun to talk about one and they were tor of the United Church was one of the to say 'Well, of course she's for peace, almost ready to take off and this gave people that the Canadian government she's a Quaker." I resisted that for a long them a real push ...It was Marion Catto took down to Colorado to show them the time. I wanted people to accept the fact who first told me about it. As they met in 'wonderful' headquarters of NORAD. He you didn't have to be a Quaker to be for somebody's house for the purpose of or- came back impressed, and he talked about peace. So, that was one reason I didn't ganizing, a question was raised, "What do the North, Canada's Northland, as a bar- join. Besides. I had an idea that all Quak- we call this women's peace movement?" gaining chip with the United States. We ers were saints and I knew I wasn't one. Somebody murmured tentatively, "It has just couldn't stand that coming from the Finally, when I was 67, it seemed right for to be called the voice of women;" they chief spokesperson of theunited Church. me to join. The path my life and thinking latched onto it. You know, from where I So my husband corresponded with him had taken seemed to lead to becoming a sit today, I think that was brilliant, be- two or three times but he was adamant, he Quaker. Not something imposed from cause the problem of women has been wouldn't back down on this position. For outside, I just felt comfortable there. They their silence. I don't think .. . I know that a while we attended both the United have such a strong social conscience and we didn't clearly see it at that time as the Church and the Quaker meetings. Finally, so much comes out of Quaker thinking problem of women that they are silent, we resigned from the United Church. It into the whole community. Later, at some that they don't speak up. wasn't just that. It was also the way the point in all this I discovered that my an- Quakers functioned, the general way that cestor, who came across from the United That was three years before Betty the Quakers functioned which itself leads States in 1792 or 3 and founded the little Friedan's book The Feminine village of Austen [Quebec] Mystique ... where I was born and where I spend my summers, was a I got into the women's move- Quaker. I didn't know that ment at that point really when I was growing up. through the peace movement .. . I sort of gradually, gradu- You said that before World ally became more and more of War II you were in the peace a feminist. movement. When did you begin to be involved in the How long were you involved peace movement? in the peace movement? I think a lot of this [was] partly I was involved before the my whole upbringing, not that Second World War. In Mon- my family were [involved in treal, we [her husband, Jack, the peace movement], be- and she] belonged to the Fel- cause they supported World lowship of Reconciliation Wars I and 11. But, I was which was apacifist organiza- brought up in the country, and tion. seemed far removed from wars. In the first World War, You're a Quaker. Have you my brother was too young and been a Quaker all your life? my father was too old, and my second cousin was the closest No, I haven't. As a matter of we came to involvement with fact, I started going to Quaker it. I think what happened more meetings, partly because of than anything was the Student the Quaker peace witness,just Christian Movement at after the founding of the Voice McGill when I was an under- of Women. Dr. Helen Cun- graduate. I startedat McGill in ningharn was a psychiatrist 1925. and one of the founders of the I Voice of Women. [She] Murid Duckworth Photo: NFB Were you born in Quebec? 1

VOLUME 9, NUMBER 1 43 Yes, born on a farm in Quebec, in Austen, ing babies with the threat - the world knew that was what people thought. lived on the farm, started school in a little threat -hanging over them. We certainly one-room school, and then we moved to had the same feeling: "Should you have What are the milestones of World War II Magog. I finished school there and then babies when things are so, so bad?" There that you remember? went to McGill. The most important thing was desperate poverty. At that time, you that happened to me at McGill was the could see the connection, you could see My brother's death was, of course, a big Student Christian Movement. It was re- the buildup towards war which was to thing. The fact that he joined up.. .[His ally more important than my courses, solve the unemployment problem You death] was a hard part of the war. looking back at it -being in a discussion began to see that war was being viewed as group constantly all the time I was there, a solution to the unemployment problem I wasjust thinking, during this interview, a religious discussion group. In this just as the militarization of industry is that myparentsdiscursed what they [had] group, we supported each other in our now. There was a constant discussion and heard, my mom especially when she was attempts to express new ideas, often ex- heated argument between the people who back here, what she had heard about plored haltingly and tentatively. There thought that you couldn't have war and rumours of concentration camps in Eu- was no space for that kind of exchange in social good at the same time and the rope. She thought [that] they were just the classroom. There was a real trend to- people who thought "you've got to have rumours. wards pacifism during that period be- war, you've got to defeat the Nazis in tween the two world wars. Of course, we order to have a good society. It's abso- I remember feeling that, too, because after talked about that too. lutely the thing you've got to do." the First World War, we had been told such horror stories about the Germans. Was that where you met Jack? Didpeople see peace and social justice as We had these homble pictures of the interconnected? Huns and stories of the cutting off of Yes.. .He was a strong pacifist. As some- babies' hands, and then came these even one once said, he was the most aggressive No, I don't think they did. I think [that] more horrible pictures of the Bolsheviks. pacifist they [had] ever met. they thought the war against fascism had I was 10 years old when World War I to be fought and won in order to be able to ended and I used to have nightmares about Fighting for peace? deal with issues of justice everywhere. Huns and Bolsheviks. Terrible stories of the Bolsheviks with their beards sticking Yes [laughter]. He was really fighting for How did you see it then? Do you re- out all over and their hair wild.. .so you peace. Then, we went to Union Seminary. member? see, it was hard, as your mother said, for We were married in 1929 as soon as I some of us to believe what was being said graduated. He was already in theological Yes. It was difficult. I wasn't too certain about concentration camps under the college. It was not common then to be of myself because so many of my friends Nazis -just impossible, couldn't be. married as students. We went tounion, to who were on the left had saidG'thisis a war New York together, for one year. Paci- that's got to be fought." I remember them The thing is that people will talk about fism was very strong around there at that getting almost enthusiastic, almost -concentration camps [now], but I find time, that was 1929-30. Then, it became a happy, when finally war was declared. very few of my parents' generation will very discussable question, of course, as "It's got to be done, might as well do it talk, or even mention the dropping of the World War 11 loomed up. now, it's been put off too long, should bomb on Japan. have been done sooner, this is all appease- Wasn't it overridden by jingoism? ment." My own feeling was often waver- Well, actually, what I remember about it, ing. I found it hard. I wasn't as firm a at that time.. . we had no idea how horren- Yes, it was, and by people who felt that pacifist as Jack was at that time. But I dous it was. We knew it had dropped on this war [was] the 'Good War,' this [was] couldn't get into wartime effort. I didn't Hiroshima, we knew it had dropped on the war that you [had] to fight. The stu- really want to and I didn't. I kept on doing Nagasaki, we knew the war had ended, dents and the faculty at Union where we work in the church, kept on doing work and we all assumed that it had caused the went were inclined at that time towards with young people in the YMCA, and I end of the war. But, the Americans delib- pacifism. Then, of course, came the De- was aware of criticism. People [were] erately kept information out of people's pression; the Social Gospel was very feeling "well, you're all mixed up; this is hands. Journalists were not allowed to strong. We came back to Montreal and not where you should be putting your visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The word worked through the Depression which effort now; your effort should be going 1 began getting out but a lot of it was hushed was really very hard.. .I remember the into the war." up. Immediately along came the Cold year that our first child was born, Jack's War. Actually, before the war was over, salary was $1,800. You were criticizedfor not supporting the they knew who thenext enemy was going war? to be, and one of the reasons that they What year was that? bombed Japan was to keep the Russians Oh yes. I was awareof that. But, there was from having any share in the victory in the '33. We had this child in the bottom of the no serious suffering about it. I just didn't Far East. Russia became the enemy and Depression.. .People talk now about hav- feel very comfortable about it when I immediately we were caught up in that.. .

CANADIAN WOMAN STUDIES/LES CAHIERS DE LA FEMME [During the time of the Gouzenko case], it was a terrible time, everybody was % afraid; everybody was afraid to talk to t ,/Y-\ anybody and it went on for quite a long H >=? H > -z time. Many innocent people suffered. It sort of merged into the whole McCarthy -*.-++F era...

I remember coming from Halifax to a World Mental Health Congress in Toronto. That was 8 years later, in 1955. It was held here because the situation was so bad in the States that the Russians couldn't go to the United States. One of the Russians gave me a Russian cigarette. I didn't smoke but I had it for a souvenir and somebody said "Don't let anybody see you with that Russian cigarette." Everybody was so fearful. Everybody was going through all that. It was still going on when the Voice of Women was More than four million adult For more information, contact: founded in 1960. We were called 'Reds,' Canadians can't read well enough Canadian Give the Gift because we felt that if you're going to talk to fill out a job application or of Literacy Foundation about peace, you've got to talk to the understand the directions on a 34 ~oss~t., Suite 200, medicine bottle. You can help. Toronto, Ont. M5T 1Z9 people on the other side. It's strange just (41 6) 595-9967 talking to yourself, and so we set out right Give money, volunteer with a literacy group, write to your MP, TheCanad~anC.rvrchrc,~ttc,fLitpracy c ampalgn ~\apr

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VOLUME 9, NUMBER 1 45