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Da´Il E´Ireann Vol. 647 Tuesday, No. 3 19 February 2008 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Tuesday, 19 February 2008. Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 495 Minister for Defence Priority Questions …………………………… 506 Other Questions …………………………… 513 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 522 Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 523 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 32 ……………… 528 Order of Business ……………………………… 529 Council Framework Decision: Motion ……………………… 535 Referral to Joint Committee: Motion ………………………… 535 Finance Bill 2008: Financial Resolutions ……………………… 535 Passports Bill 2007: Order for Report Stage …………………………… 536 Report and Final Stages …………………………… 536 Private Members’ Business Agency Workers: Motion …………………………… 560 Adjournment Debate Health Services ……………………………… 586 Ferry Services ……………………………… 588 Water and Sewerage Scheme ………………………… 590 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 595 DA´ IL E´ IREANN ———— De´ Ma´irt, 19 Feabhra 2008. Tuesday, 19 February 2008. ———— Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 2.30 p.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Ceisteanna — Questions. ———— Commissions of Investigation. 1. Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach if officials from his Department have met the family of Seamus Ludlow as outlined in his reply to Parliamentary Question No.139 on 31 October 2007; if he will meet the family; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31949/07] 2. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach the action he has taken as a result of the report of the MacEntee commission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34026/07] 3. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach when he last met representatives of the Justice for the Forgotten organisation; if he has plans for further meetings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34027/07] 4. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if representatives of his Department have met the family of Mr. Seamus Ludlow; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34142/07] 5. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the MacEntee commission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3560/08] 6. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting of 22 January 2008 with members of the family of Mr. Seamus Ludlow. [1907/08] 7. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting of 22 January 2008 with the family of the late Mr. Seamus Ludlow. [1991/08] The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 7, inclusive, together. I reported to the House on 10 October on actions taken arising from the final report by the Commission of Investigation into the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings 1974 and, as promised, a debate on the report was held in the House. I last had a formal meeting with the full Justice for the Forgotten group on 25 November 2004. I met representatives of the group a number of times since then at other meetings involv- 495 Ceisteanna — 19 February 2008. Questions [The Taoiseach.] ing victims. I met members of the group again on Monday, 10 December, when I unveiled a memorial to the victims of the Miami Showband massacre. My officials are in regular ongoing contact with the group and last met formally with their representatives on 30 October. I have not received any recent request for a meeting. I met with the family of Seamus Ludlow on Tuesday, 22 January. At that meeting I welcomed and acknowledged the work on this case of Mr. Justice Barron and the Oireachtas Joint Com- mittee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights. I added my voice to the apologies already offered to the family by the Garda Commissioner and the former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in respect of the Garda investigation. The family is being kept informed of the current active Garda investigation. Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Does the Taoiseach agree that the report of Mr. Justice Barron on the murder of Seamus Ludlow is an indictment in particular of senior Garda manage- ment who prevented a full investigation being pursued in 1979 even though they were aware of the identity of the four people directly involved in the murder of Seamus Ludlow and that two of those were serving members of the British army’s Ulster Defence Regiment? The report concludes that the decision not to pursue the investigation was taken by Deputy Commissioner Laurence Wren. Would the Taoiseach believe, as this Deputy believes, that this was not taken wholly and solely by then Deputy Commissioner Wren, but in consultation with senior officials in the Department of Justice? In the light of this damning conclusion does the Taoiseach agree that this case in particular highlights the huge responsibility of the State not only to come clean regarding what has happened but also to make amends for what was done and what failed to be done in the name of this State? Will the Government agree to the request conveyed to the Taoiseach at his recent meeting with representatives of the Ludlow family for a full indepen- dent public inquiry? When will the decision be taken to agree to concede to their request that has been repeatedly made? Have all the Barron reports and those of the Oireachtas sub-committee been presented to the British prime Minister, Gordon Brown, or his predecessor? If they were presented in the first instance to the former Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has the Taoiseach considered presenting the current occupant of 10 Downing Street with the full complement of these reports including the Oireachtas sub-committee’s reports following the reports of Mr. Justice Barron, Mr. Justice Hamilton and Mr. Patrick MacEntee? Have parliamentarians at Westminster, altogether apart from the British Prime Minister, been lobbied for support for the repeated call of this House for a full independent judicial inquiry into all the matters we have recently addressed in this House under the banner of collusion? The Taoiseach: Subject to checking I think that all of the reports of the late Mr. Justice Hamilton and Mr. Justice Barron have been provided. I will check whether they have been given to the present incumbent, the Prime Minister, Mr. Brown. If not, I will have a look at doing that. In the follow up on the third Barron report, which deals with the murder of Seamus Ludlow, there are a number of recommendations made in the report on the murder of Seamus. Specific recommendations from the Ludlow report have already been acted upon. They include that all mechanisms be fully utilised by the Garda to liaise with the PSNI in respect of the investigation into the murder of Seamus Ludlow; and that the Garda Commissioner appoint a dedicated team of gardaı´ to re-examine the case in a proactive manner to see if there is any possibility of bringing any or all of the four suspects to justice. I have been advised by the Garda auth- orities that, as recommended by the Oireachtas joint committee, which was the key recom- 496 Ceisteanna — 19 February 2008. Questions mendation, the reinvestigation of the murder of Seamus Ludlow would commence. That is now at an advanced stage and remains ongoing under the direction of a Garda superintendent. Liaison has been established and maintained with the historical inquiries team in Northern Ireland and the family of the deceased have been kept fully informed of the status of the inves- tigation. At a recent meeting with the family on 22 January, family members made it clear that in their view only a public inquiry would establish the truth about what happened. Their legal representatives suggested they could frame a process that was narrowly focused with tight procedural deadlines and asked for an opportunity to discuss the inquiry process with officials from the Office of the Attorney General. These discussions are taking place — some have already taken place. I understand from the Attorney General and his officials that, following the first round of those discussions, they are not convinced that one can get a tightly-focused process, as opposed to a prolonged inquiry. They are examining the matter, however. On the general issue, I have always said that the victims must be central to all that we are dealing with concerning the terrible events of the past. I frequently meet officials who are in ongoing contact with the various groups representing victims of atrocities on all sides. We have provided financial support for a number of those groups. In addition, the Government and the British authorities have set up a number of inquires to deal with specific cases. The British Government has established a well resourced historical inquiries team that will provide a thor- ough examination or re-examination of unsolved deaths during the Troubles. The Police Ombudsman is reviewing cases involving the police, which can bring closure to victims and survivors and hopefully can build confidence within the community. Of course, the Remem- brance Commission is still in place and we have made available resources for that. Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: While I acknowledge the Taoiseach’s indication that, if it has not already been done, he will look at compiling all the reports I have cited, including those of the Oireachtas sub-committee, with a view to presenting them to Prime Minister Brown, will he indicate whether we have employed any other level of activity in lobbying parliamentarians at Westminster to give support to the request of the Oireachtas for full British co-operation in an investigation into all cases of collusion? While the Taoiseach is on the record in this regard, will he acknowledge once again his personal concern at the fact that in 1974 we had a very short-lived investigation by the Garda Sı´ocha´na into the Dublin-Monaghan bom- bings of 17 May of that year? In addition, the Garda investigation into the murder of Seamus Ludlow was cut short at the direction of the then deputy Garda Commissioner, Laurence Wren.
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