Vol. 580 Tuesday, No. 1 17 February 2004 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Tuesday, 17 February 2004. Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 1 Minister for Finance Priority Questions …………………………… 14 Other Questions …………………………… 28 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 34 Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 35 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ……………… 42 Order of Business ……………………………… 43 Finance Bill 2004: Allocation of Time Motion …………………… 52 Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions: Motion ………………… 53 Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Bill 2004: Second Stage ……………… 54 Private Members’ Business Electronic Voting: Motion ………………………… 82 Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Bill 2004: Second Stage (resumed)……………………………114 Referral to Select Committee ………………………… 139 Adjournment Debate Community Employment Schemes ……………………… 139 School Closures ……………………………… 142 Hepatitis C Incidence …………………………… 144 Social Welfare Benefits …………………………… 148 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 153 1 2 DA´ IL E´ IREANN DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL OFFICIAL REPORT Imleabhar 580 Volume 580 De´ Ma´irt, 17 Feabhra 2004. Tuesday, 17 February 2004. ———— Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 2.30 p.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Ceisteanna — Questions. 5. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if the Government has plans for the holding of ———— constitutional referenda during 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2892/04] Constitutional Amendments. 6. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the 1. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the progress made to date with regard to the constitutional referenda he intends to hold during implementation of the recommendations of the 2004; and if he will make a statement on the Oireachtas committee on the Constitution; and if matter. [1006/04] he will make a statement on the matter. [2893/04] 2. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the position in respect of the 7. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach when he implementation of the recommendations of the expects to receive the report of the Oireachtas Oireachtas committee on the Constitution; and if committee on the Constitution in regard to he will make a statement on the matter. building land; and if he will make a statement on [1007/04] the matter. [2894/04] 3. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will 8. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if there report on progress in implementing the are plans to hold a constitutional referendum recommendations of the Oireachtas committee during 2004; and if he will make a statement on on the Constitution; whether any constitutional the matter. [3703/04] referenda will be held in 2004; and if he will make 9. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach the a statement on the matter. [1280/04] progress made to date in implementing the 4. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach recommendations of the Oireachtas committee if it is intended to hold a referendum or referenda on the Constitution. [3704/04] in 2004 on changes to the Constitution; and if he The Taoiseach: I propose to answer Questions will make a statement on the matter. [1698/04] Nos. 1 to 9 together. 3 Ceisteanna — 17 February 2004. Questions 4 [The Taoiseach.] can conclude this matter successfully, it must then The Government has no proposals at present go before the people by virtue of the fact that to hold a referendum to change the Constitution. they must vote on it. The position continues to be held under review in light of developments, including: the outcome An Ceann Comhairle: We are not discussing of the examination by the All-Party Oireachtas the constitution of Europe but a referendum. Committee on the Constitution of property rights issues; the outcome of the study being conducted Mr. Kenny: This is a constitutional matter. by a sub-committee on procedures and privileges on reform of the Seanad; and the outcome of the An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a Intergovernmental Conference on the draft question relative to a referendum in this country constitutional treaty which commenced in Rome on the issue? on 4 October. It is difficult at this stage to say when the Mr. Kenny: I have but the Chair has refused negotiations on the Intergovernmental to allow me to elaborate on my point. Does the Conference might be concluded. However, as Taoiseach consider that during this Da´il a holders of the Presidency, we will be making situation will arise where the people will have to every effort to progress the IGC during our term vote on a constitution, hopefully to be concluded in office. during the Irish Presidency? I hope that question The Government has acted on most of the key is in order. recommendations which have emanated from the In 2003, the Taoiseach stated that he would be All-Party Committee on the Constitution. In all, willing to hold a constitutional referendum on the previous Government brought forward nine property rights, if one was necessary to address referenda. The Government will avail of the spiralling costs of development lands. It is appropriate opportunities to take forward further obvious to anybody, and to the thousands of first- recommendations of the all-party committee. time house buyers and young people in general, The complexities involved in holding a that the cost of development lands has spiralled. referendum require that careful consideration be With the abolition of the new house grant, the given to the frequency with which referenda can 1% increase in VAT and the imposition of realistically be held and the significance of the development levies, this cost is increasing even issues in question. more seriously. In that context, has the Taoiseach given consideration to what he said in 2003 about Mr. Kenny: I commend the Taoiseach for the holding a constitutional referendum on property efforts he has made to date in meeting all the rights? leaders of the EU and accession countries. If it is possible, it is particularly important that this The Taoiseach: In reply to the first question, matter should be concluded during Ireland’s it is almost definite that a referendum will be Presidency of the EU. Personally, I would not required during the life of this Da´il to deal with regard it as a failure of Government —— the outcome of the IGC on the constitution. Whether that is concluded in the first or second An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a half of this year or next year, it will have to be question for the Taoiseach relative to Questions dealt with. It will almost certainly have to be put Nos.1to9? to the people in a formal referendum. So the answer is, “Yes”. Mr. Kenny: The Ceann Comhairle is being very I have not changed my mind on the second touchy because —— issue. The Government has done an amount of work over the last year on the issue of property An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair will not rights, going right back to the Kenny report and accept that sort of remark from Deputy Kenny. looking to current issues and case law. We have It is quite obvious that Questions Nos. 1 to 9 deal had debates on it here and are awaiting the all- with the Oireachtas —— party committee report, which I understand will be out in a matter of weeks. We will then have to Mr. Kenny: Allow me to explain. They are come to a consideration of whether this issue can quite obvious. The first question is about be dealt with legislatively, which some people feel constitutional matters. The Chair knows as well is the case. I have my own view and think it will as I do that if the Taoiseach in his capacity as probably have to be dealt with constitutionally. President of the EU is able to conclude the IGC, However, we will wait for the outcome of the the matter will have to be put to a constitutional report and the work that is being done around it, referendum of the people. and then the finalisation of the Attorney General’s advice on the matter. My commitment An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy may talk still holds. about a constitutional referendum but not about how we arrive at it. Mr. Sargent: The Taoiseach referred to property rights. I would be interested to hear if he Mr. Kenny: I am talking about constitutional took note of the widespread calls made by people matters. The Chair knows that if the Taoiseach dealing with housing and homelessness, for a 5 Ceisteanna — 17 February 2004. Questions 6 right to shelter to be incorporated as a other areas are quite complex as well. The constitutional provision, explicitly including judgments that bring these issues forward are people with special housing needs. Has this legally complex. This is the case even for people matter been discussed and does the Government who are used to looking at legislation or those have any intention of acting on this call, which working in administrative jobs; it is extremely has been made repeatedly and continues to be complex and the legal points are quite complex. made? Even the formula for questions that are put to Has the Attorney General’s advice been sought the people is complex. I agree with the Deputy on whether there is a need to amend the that it creates much confusion and requires Constitution? In the Carrickmines judgment, for understanding and programmes for explanation. example, the judge ruled on it being On several of the other matters that are in unconstitutional to amend an Act by ministerial consideration arising from the eight reports we order. Will this have a bearing on the have had to date, we have looked at how we Government’s plans for electronic voting? Has might put these together in blocks as it would advice been sought on this? It is clear that the build up a good reservoir of information.