A Narrative Analysis of the Asian American Experience in the Asianbossgirl Podcast

“It was about topics that related to Asian Americans” A Narrative Analysis of the Asian American Experience in the AsianBossGirl Podcast

Thea Naree

Media and Communication Studies: Culture, Collaborative Media, and Creative Industries Malmö University Two-year Master Thesis (15 Credits) Spring 2020 Course codes KK649A & KK644B Supervisor: Temi Odumosu Examiner: Erin Cory

Abstract

Following the development of Asian American representation in the United States media in the 21st century, this thesis aims to explore the alternative narratives provided by the AsianBossGirl podcast which started in 2017 to fill the gap in the mainstream media. Intersectional framework has been operationalized to conduct an in-depth reading of their narratives, and complemented by the theory of uses and gratification to investigate the impacts that they have on their audiences.

The results demonstrate that their narratives of Asian American experience deviate from both cultural and stereotypical traditions. They contest the norms through relatable, subversive and authentic content that resonate with their listeners. However, through the intersectional lens, this thesis is able to identify the danger of neglecting multidimensionality in the Asian American communities which encompass a diverse immigration history in the United States.

Keyword: narrative analysis, Asian American, podcast, representation, diasporic identity, intersectionality, theory of uses and gratification

Acknowledgement

Without all the encouragement and guidance during the past couple of months, this thesis would not have been possible. Hence, I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude towards various individuals who have been part of this long, yet rewarding journey.

To my thesis supervisor, Temi Odumosu, thank you so much for supporting, guiding and challenging me to develop in my writing, from start to finish. It has not been easy, but you have shown me that persistence and dedication will help me get through this marathon. I am fortunate to have you as my thesis supervisor.

To my examiner, Erin Cory, thank you so much for your valuable feedback.

To Gabriella, thank you for always being the friend that listens and comes with wise words. And thank you for being there for me through the tough time during my self-quarantine.

To Young, I sincerely appreciate your comforting words and unconditional understanding. It has meant a lot.

To my mom, thank you for providing me with the endless mental support during the conduction of this thesis. Mom, I love you!

To everyone who has helped me in sharing and/or participating in my questionnaire. You all are awesome.

Lastly, to the ABG podcast, thank you for the opportunity to conduct a research that has been more than a research. It is a vital part of the reconciliation with my own identity as a third culture kid.

List of figures

Figure 1. Dr. Fu Manchu performed by Christopher Lee Figure 2. Labov’s structural model Figure 3. Questionnaire Figure 4. Graph excerpted from the questionnaire shows the ages of the respondents

Table of content

1. Introduction 5 1.1 Research questions and thesis outline 6

2. Contextualization 8

3. Literature review 10 3.1 Asian American identity and its challenges 10 3.2 Representation of Asian diaspora in the United States 12

4. Theoretical framework 16 4.1 Intersectional framework 16 4.2 The theory of uses and gratifications (U&G) 18

5. Methodology 20 5.1 Research design 20 5.2 Sampling 21 5.3 Narrative analysis 23 5.4 Questionnaire 24 5.4.1 Data collection 25 5.4.2 Results 27 5.5 Ethical considerations and limitations 28

6. Analysis 31 6.1 Analyzing the ABG podcast for key narratives: Ep. 22, 29 and 30 31 6.1.1 Episode 22: On Role models and relatability 31 6.1.2 Episode 29: Assimilation and subversion 34 6.1.3 Episode 30: Something old and something new 37 6.2 The emerging foci 40 6.2.1 Challenging the norms 41 6.2.2 Relatable and active community members 42 6.3 Intersectional reading of the ABG podcast 44 6.4 Relatability, connection and content neglected by mainstream media 45

7. Concluding discussion 51 7.1 Alternative narrative of the Asian American experience 51 7.2 Empowering, yet insufficient 53

8. List of references 56

9. Appendices 62

1. Introduction

“I wanted my children to have the best combination: American circumstances and Chinese character. How could I know these things do not mix?” The Joy Luck Club, 1989, p. 254

This quote excerpted from The Joy Luck Club book reminds me of growing up between the European cultures and Southeast Asian values, where I always struggled to reconcile the depictions of Western society in mainstream with media and the work of establishing of Asian roots that were narrated by my family. Organically, I internalized normative Western images into my own identity, which influenced to how I looked at myself as well as at other people of Asian descent living in the West. To conform with the norms, I never questioned what I was not exposed to and instead I tried to relate my personal experiences to what I could access in media. However, the older I get, the more the representational dissonance during my upbringing prompts further questions regarding what influences self-perception and I decided to start exploring the experiences of people living between worlds, outside of my own context. This attempt of mine has been facilitated by the rising trends of diversity in media production, and the amplified selection and dissemination of content produced by other Asians in the West. It is also possible because of the increasing mediatization of our interactions in the digital age where communicative technologies and globalization meet (Kleinke et al., 2018). I first discovered the AsianBossGirl podcast (hereafter ABG) in 2017, and it invoked my curiosity for the representations of ethnic groups in mainstream media in the United States. As close as this podcast brought me to the reflection of people sharing similar experiences in media that do not belong to the existing stereotypical representations, it also brought me to the problematization of this topic, and consequently, the present thesis. In recent years, studies on Asian Americans in media appear to be extensive and varied, including: the shifting the images of people of Asian descent in the United States mainstream media (Kim, 2013), the representation of Asian American masculinity in the sports media coverage (Park, 2015), the impacts of the stereotypical portrayal, Model Minority, on Asian Americans (Shih et al., 2019), and the celebratory discourse around the movie Crazy Rich Asians and its impact on the narrative of Asian American representation (Sugino, 2019). Yet,

studying the history of representations of Asians and Asian American experiences in the United States has revealed the gap, that this thesis paper seeks to fill. These previous research studies mostly focus on the stereotypical depictions in mainstream media e.g. movies, music, and magazines. The visibility of people of Asian descent is seemingly expanding in media, both conventional and alternative, hence, the ABG was selected as my case study to explore the unexplored area in the field of media and communication studies. Despite it being a podcast, its content is nonetheless appropriate to be subject for studying the narrative of Asian American experience and representation amidst the growing diversity in media scene. In addition to fill the gap in the research field, this thesis aims to uncover and examine the narrative of Asian American experience rendered by the ABG podcast and understand its impacts on the podcast listeners through the usage of qualitative analysis and questionnaire. To fulfill these aims, the analytical frameworks of intersectionality and uses and gratification will be further applied.

1.1 Research questions and thesis outline

There are three research questions that have been formulated in accordance with the objectives of this thesis in exploring the narrative of Asian American experience provided by the ABG podcast.

- How does the ABG podcast produce alternative narrative of the Asian American experience? - In what ways do issues of racial, gender and class dominance intersect in their content? - What are the effects of these narratives on their listeners?

The present thesis is divided into six main chapters. To position this thesis in the media and communications research field, the next chapter provides a contextualization of Asian American representation using the existing studies followed by Chapter 3 that gives a literature review. Chapter 4 will discuss the two chosen theoretical frameworks which are intersectionality and the theory of uses and gratification. The outline of the methodological approaches and strategies is subsequently presented in Chapter 5. In addition to the methodology, there is a section dedicated to reflecting my ethical concerns in relation to the

limitations of this thesis. Chapter 6 presents the analysis applying the analytical approach in practice, and finally, a concluding discussion on the findings with suggestions for future research will be provided in Chapter 7.

2. Contextualization

For clarity and contextualization of this thesis, the term Asian American needs to be established. Asian Americans are an extremely diverse population in the United States consisting of over 48 ethnic groups, according to the Census 2012 (Chan, 2017, p.13), and therefore, many scholars have faced challenges when attempting to construct an umbrella racial identity for these communities. Asian Americans as a term was first adopted by the immigrants from Asia to the United States in the 1960s and might not be applied to the new immigrants, who do not share the same historical, political and economic experiences (Junn & Masuoka, 2008, p.729). Keeping this in mind, the thesis is not intended to exclude the more recent identities such as Asian Pacific American (Patel, 2010) and Asian Pacific Islander Desi American (Chan, 2017). Since this population is multiethnic and multicultural, the focus will thus be on the traditional Asian American term which adheres to the model in relation to the collected data i.e. how the shared experiences affected by the factors such as immigration history, family culture, gender and discrimination that construe a consciousness of collective racial identity (Chan, 2017, p.14). With that said, this term will be used in consideration to the Asian American experience that is narrated specifically by the ABG podcast, which is primarily people of East Asian origin e.g. China, Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan. Going back to my motivation for choosing to work with the topic of Asian Americans, this demographic was the fastest growing group among the minorities in the United States (Sun et al., 2015, p. 295) since the immigration wave in the 1960s (Kibria, 2002, p.1), but their problematic portrayals are based on the imaginaries produced and perpetuated by the media which reflects the structural ideology in the given society. Tom Pollard (2017), who studied the prejudices against Asian Americans that are reflected in the Hollywood’s depictions, points out that “historically, Asian-Americans were portrayed using such derisive stereotypes as “the yellow peril” (dangerous criminals), “the perpetual foreigner” (unassimilated immigrants), and “the exotic geisha” (subservient sexual objects)” (2017, p.133), while “model minority” is a more recent stereotype describing people of Asian descent as nerdy and polite (ibid). Disrupting these stereotypes seems to be possible in the era post Crazy Rich Asians, which was seen as a win for Asian American representation in the United States after The Joy Luck Club featuring an all-Asian cast 25 years earlier (Le & Kang, 2019, p.525). This can also be seen in the ABG podcast’s attempt to rupture the

stereotypical representations of Asian women in media by providing a voice that deviates from the norms.

As of January 2020, there are over 850 000 active podcasts on iTunes (Podcast Insights) since the term podcast was first coined in 2004. Platforms like iTunes, Spotify and Soundcloud are hosting and distributing podcasts globally (Drew, 2017, p.202) and the number of people listening to podcasts weekly is steadily increasing since 2004 (Podcast Insights). The format as well as production and consumption practices of podcasts enable both individuals and institutions to engage and interact more “intimately” within cultural contexts (Drew, 2017, p.202). This is because the consumers have the ability to choose when, where and how to listen to the particular podcasts through their devices, and the producers benefit from the Internet that facilitates the distribution and accessibility of their content while combining traditional and new media in creating a new way of communication (Scholz et al., 2008, p.468). This attractive aspect surely has contributed to the growth of the podcast’s popularity. The Asian Boss Girl podcast is a podcast hosted by three Asian American women between the ages of 20-30, called Melody Cheng, Helen Wu and Janet Wang. They launched their first episode in 2017 and since, they have produced 57 episodes with distribution across different platforms including iTunes, Spotify and Google Play. Their initial aim of starting this podcast was to fill a representational gap alongside the ongoing movements Me Too and Nasty Gal, where they felt like the voice of Asian American women was not as strong (Episode 1). They want to elevate the authentic narrative of Asian American experience by offering the content that focuses on relatable stories such as career, health, dating and everyday life from their cultural perspectives and background. The name Asian Boss Girl was inspired by the initials ABG, a pop culture shorthand for “Asian Baby Girl” that in general has somewhat negative connotations. Because of these negative connotations, the podcast founders wanted to turn that into something positive by replacing the word “baby” with the word “boss”. For this thesis, I have chosen to analyze episodes 22, 29, 30 which will be motivated in further detail in the Methodology chapter.

3. Literature review

This chapter aims to present a review of the previous studies on Asian American representations in media in the United States throughout the years. However, a sole review of literature is deemed inadequate without drawing upon the ongoing developments the media landscape. Thus, this chapter will also address the social, cultural and political complexities in the racial identification Asian American, as well as what have been studied by the existing research studies on the representation of Asian American and Asian diaspora in the media and entertainment industry.

3.1 Asian American identity and its challenges

The identification of Asian American has to date never been without its complications, both in theory and in practice. Its roots can be traced all the way back to how alliances between Asian immigrants and labor organizations as well as other racialized communities were built in the United States (Lopez, 2016, p. 20). In the early 1970s, Asian Americans began organizing to protest racist media imagery and it was where the collective and politicized Asian American identity began to form (Lopez, 2016, p. 19). It was a sense of shared history and circumstances within a foreign country that started to come together under the umbrella of the title “Asian American” among the Asian immigrant families who settled in the United States. Politically, the title was linked to the movements against the Vietnam War, where Asian American identity was bound profoundly to antiracism and anti-imperialism, and Asian Americans were mobilized across the United States (2016, p.20). The mobilizations also reflected the struggles of working-class communities who shared similar struggles with communities in what was known as the Third World (ibid.). Scholar Nazli Kibria (2002) also connects the development of an Asian American identity with integration and assimilation into the dominant culture and society (2002, p.198). Not too far from this compilation of definitions, Kent A. Ono and Vincent Pham (2009) suggest that the term represents those individuals in the United States who experience the collective struggles against political, social and economic oppression (2009, p.9). In other words, the Asian American identity has always been politicized. Additionally, I’d also like to include the work by Lisa Lowe (1991) to the discussion of Asian American identity from the perspective of culture, because it sheds light on the wide spectrum and the intersections of class, gender and ethnic diversities among

Asians (1991, p.26), which emphasizes the challenges of attempting to essentialize this demographic in the United States. Lowe dives more deeply into these perpetually changing immigrant cultures within the Asian American discourse to understand their circumstances and histories. The mobilization is crucial argued by Lowe, as it “articulates and empowers our multicultural, multilingual Asian origin community vis-a-vis the institutions and apparatuses that exclude and marginalize us… but it also inadvertently supports the racist discourse that constructs Asians as a homogeneous group, that implies we are “all alike” (1991, p.30). This argument by Lowe is valuable from the intersectionality perspective as well as the way in which it emphasizes the major challenge in this thesis. Stirred away from its roots in countering hegemony and resistance to the status quo i.e. structural inequalities and suppressions, the shift in the definition of Asian American identity occurred as a result of the influx of Asian American professionals and business executives (Lopez, 2016, p.21). As Lopez (2016) points out, understanding the shift would benefit my examination of the salience of the term in today’s context without replacing its meaning. This also helps me pay attention to the complications within the diversity of the communities using the term Asian American as well as those who might not be included. Nonetheless, some still oppose the use of the term due to its including ability. As previously argued, the term Asian American is to date still facing the challenges because of its diverse communities. There are scholars like Kent Ono and Gayatri Spivak who criticize the term for “its failure as a collective assignation” because the larger community is dominated by the minority of its members (Lopez, 2016, p.22). Another essential complexity that cannot be overlooked is the ambiguity of the notions that pushes away many of the community members who do not feel related (Kibria, 2002, p.x). This prompts the question regarding whether Asian American identity, as a cultural designation, simply is about “yellowness” and “brownness”, and its inclusivity. There is an underlying problem such colorism in many Asian communities that can take another direction, but worth mentioning due to the ambiguity in the terminology. This compilation of definitions, questions, and complexities surrounding the Asian American identity is presented to demonstrate the challenges for me as a researcher to establish an umbrella racial identity for these diverse communities. However, giving it the historical, political and social contextualization will be useful when theorizing and analyzing the ABG podcast. This also enables me to situate their content within the Asian American community.

3.2 Representation of Asian diaspora in the United States

Like elsewhere, local diaspora communities in the United States find comfort and maintain their connections to the homelands through various media channels (Hossain & Veenstra, 2017, p.1). Yu Shi (2005) argues that media generate collective diasporic imaginations shared by the individuals of common culture, geography and history, and there is clearly a connection between media and identity construction (2005, p.57). For many communities, being left out from mainstream media in the United States has created feelings of alienation because these individuals cannot relate to the cultural representations offered by the industry (2005, p.64). This experience of Asian diaspora was first depicted in the movie based on Amy Tan’s novel The Joy Luck Club. It was released in 1993 providing insights into Asian American culture in the United States, and was the first movie to feature a majority of Asian American cast. The Joy Luck Club could be seen as an instance of the many current contributions toward the new discursive obsession called “ethnicity” (Chow, 1998, p.105). Rey Chow (1998) applied a Foucauldian reading to problematize the narrative of experience of ‘a minority group’. It is an interesting and relevant study to this thesis, as it sheds light on how The Joy Luck Club was classified as an “ethnic film” and to Chow, that classification is regarded as “a repressed truth that awaits liberation” (1998, p.101). From the culture aspect, the narrative of this movie also depicts the common theme in diaspora cultures: “the disruption and distortion of traditional cultural practices” - which poses generational conflict (Lowe, 1991, p.37). From another perspective within the same context, Nancy Wang Yuen (2004) emphasizes that Hollywood is the most influential entertainment hub in the world, but consistently produces misrepresentation of minorities through manufacturing characters based on racial and gender stereotypes (2004, p.252). This resulted in the burden on the actors from minoritized groups, including Asian Americans, to have to embody these stereotypes in the film industry (ibid). Digging deeper into this issue, Yen L. Espiritu (1997) clarifies that the structures in the United States maintain what constitutes as race, gender and class privileges (1997, p.13). These privileges neglect the experiences of the marginalized and disadvantaged from this system, resulting in degrading and delimited representation of Asian Americans in the mainstream media (ibid).

Figure 1. Dr. Fu Manchu performed by Christopher Lee

Apart from the stereotypical representation that has been produced and perpetuated by Hollywood, from the earliest days, Asians were also impersonated and depicted by and through non-Asian eyes, i.e. white people. Well-known characters such as Dr. Fu Manchu (Figure 1) and Charlie Chan were performed by white actors (Fuller, 2010, p.2). Studies by Karla Rae Fuller reiterate that this controversy displays the outcomes of the dominating societal power structures by white people in the United States (Fuller, 2010, p.6). Common stereotypical representations of the people of Asian descent in mainstream media in the past included tropes like the exotic geisha, yellow peril, yellowface and model minority, which confirmed by many scholars still exist in the contemporary media production (Kim, 2013, p.22). Hollywood’s depiction of Asian Americans was not only controversial and degrading, but biases also influenced the selection of content. Since the kung fu and Chinese martial arts craze in the 1970s (Szeto, 2011, p.25), the exposure to people of Asian descent in media was generally poor, particularly if we exclude imported foreign language films such as Ang Lee’s successful epic Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (2000). After The Joy Luck Club, the comedy TV series The Mindy Project (2012) was the first to feature an Indian American female lead (Lopez, 2016, p. 2), and television audiences were offered a different portrayal of Asian Americans. During the same period, in 2015, Fresh off the Boat was created and it was the first sitcom with all Asian American cast since All American Girl in 1994. However, the show received an abundance of criticism due to its name, and how the cast used faked accents (ibid.). In the following years, the exposure to casts of Asian descent and the variety of

representations continued expanding to include movies such as Dr. Ken (2015) and Quantico (2015).

Since its release in 2018, the movie Crazy Rich Asians has been celebrated for providing multidimensionality of Asian American representations (Sugino, 2019). It turned the typical stereotype discourse around by bringing the representations of Asians into the mainstream as opposed to earlier martial arts narratives and a marginalized ethnic genre (ibid). Riding a wave of the shifting discourse, movies and series with Asian leads in the United States are becoming more visible, such as the Netflix production To All The Boys I’ve Loved Before (2018), Always Be My Maybe (2019), and the independent film The Farewell (2019). The attempt to subvert the insufficient narratives and representations of Asians in the United States has been made by other people beyond the film industry. Today online digital media are known to provide a significant space for community involvement where social interactions are mediated, and alternative communities with the same values as the physical communities are created (Rice & Haythornthwaite, 2010, p.9). In amplifying the Asian American experience and bringing about change to media practices, the proliferation of social media platforms has been helpful to Asian Americans (Luther et al., 2017). Hence, the mobilization also occurs on platforms like YouTube where Asian Americans are enabled to create and disseminate their own content including the independent content producers Wong Fu Productions, Michelle Phan, Ryan Higa and The Fung Bros (Lopez, 2016, p.143), as well as online magazines e.g. Slant’d, Banana, Mochi and Yolk. The technological advancement certainly has opened up the space for marginalized voices to be heard (ibid), and not the least for the media channels like podcasts. Today there are over 300 podcasts hosted by Asian American presenters within different genres, offering a variety of content related to their cultural backgrounds (AApodcasters). From being excluded from the popular culture in the past where Asian American actors were not allowed to audition for the role of their own race (Lopez, 2016, p.45) to the celebration of commercial success for an all Asian cast (Le & Kand, 2019, p.528), media production in a technological and diverse climate has enabled more ways to counteract traditional imagery of Asian Americans. Notwithstanding that the ABG podcast does not fall under the mainstream media and entertainment industry, its role in shaping the narrative of Asian American experience is yet relevant. In exploring their content

in the context of representation and the impacts they have on their listeners, next chapter will present and discuss the theoretical frameworks.

4. Theoretical framework

To better understand the ways in which the alternative narratives of the Asian American experience are produced by the ABG podcast and how the issues of racial, gender and class dominance intersect in these narratives, this thesis proposes an application of intersectional framework. The theory of media effect has been further applied to examine the effects of the ABG podcast’s narratives have on the listeners. Lastly, the theoretical implications will be discussed.

4.1 Intersectional framework

The term intersectionality was coined by Kimberle Williams Crenshaw to describe the interacting forms of identity and oppression (race, class, ability, gender, age etc.) that impacted black women’s experiences at work in the 1990s (Gopaldas, 2013, p.90). Over the years, intersectionality has been widely adopted across disciplines and went beyond the academic realm. Even though the term is utilized within various sectors, its implications in the contemporary social science are still vital. Aristea Fotopoulou (2012) suggests that intersectionality is employed as a systematic approach to study “the ways in which differences such as race, gender, sexuality, class, ethnicity and other socio-political and cultural categories interrelate” (2012, p.19). Intersectionality applies the multiple axes of identity in its analysis (Golpaldas, 2013, p.91) and investigates how these social categories construct each other (Bernhardsson & Bogren, 2012, p.3), which makes it pertinent to this thesis in attempting to gain a better insight into the narrative of Asian American experience provided by the ABG podcast. Furthermore, the usage of an intersectional framework will uncover how the experiences of different groups within the minoritized communities, like Asian Americans, are affected by multiple systems of power in different institutional domains (Hankivsky & Cormier, 2011, p.217), including media. As a result of this, individuals are positioned and subject to advantages and disadvantages in society in accordance to the power structures and hierarchy (Golpaldas, 2013, p.91). Challenging researchers of race and gender studies, intersectionality sheds light on the social positioning of the community members and how they help reproduce unequal social relations within the group (Lutz et al., 2011, p.8). Reconnecting this to the contextualization chapter, people of Asian descent have historically

been portrayed in certain ways in the United States, therefore, the intersectional framework can pave the way for a debate to approach the complex interplay between the disadvantaged and privileged that has forged and perpetuated these portrayals. Even though this thesis does not focus on the impacts of these stereotypes, there is still need for the inclusion of this discussion in order to understand the narratives that appear in the ABG podcast, which extend the representation of Asian Americans in media. Studying cultural stereotypes, I found the work by Negin Ghavami and Anne Peplau Letitia (2012) useful. Firstly, it attempts to highlight the shortcomings of stereotype research studies which have been mostly focusing on a single social identity such as ethnicity or gender, while failing to highlight the intersection between these identities (2012, p.113). The second reason is that Ghavami and Letitia clarify that there are more distinct elements in the stereotypes of ethnic people where the combination of gender and ethnicity lead to specific content (2012, p.114), for example the idea that Asian women are bad drivers. Departing from this, the intersectional framework will therefore direct this thesis when theorizing the ABG podcast’s content from the aspect of Asian American stereotypes that have been affected by the cultural and social structures in the United States in a more comprehensive manner (2012, p.114).

The application of intersectionality as an analytical framework has it owns potential challenges that should be acknowledged. Floya Anthias (2008) presents one of these challenges in her work on the contemporary forms of identity construction, which is relevant to this thesis. There is a risk of seeing people as belonging to fixed ethnic, gender and class groups without paying attention to how these groups are impacted by the situational elements (2008, p.14). In avoiding this, the contextualization chapter sought to provide a background for issues of Asian American representation in the United States media, where the complexities of the racial identity were clarified. The emphasis was also on the multidimensional attributes of this community membership, including the traditional definition. As a feminist analytical framework, some scholars have highlighted the exclusions within this framework. They argue that intersectionality simply fails to connect the everyday life with the theoretical input of political activism as a result of complex intersections, where it remains predominantly white, able-bodied, young and middle-class (Fotopoulou, 2012, p.23-4).

To summarize the chosen theoretical framework, I now will discuss its implications for this thesis. Reiterated by Kimberle Crenshaw (1991), by neglecting the differences within groups could cause tension among the groups (1991, p.1242). By attempting to highlight the unequal social and power relation within the Asian American community, the intersectional framework can direct this thesis in uncovering the so-called racial progress that proliferates from the contemporary multicultural and diverse media era. In the context of representation, one ought to not simplify the specificity of Asian American experiences that are shaped by the interaction of social differentiations (Lutz et al., 2011, p.2). Hence, I have appropriated the analytical questions proposed by Mikkel Mouritz Marfelt (2016) who has developed an analytical framework to approach intersectionality:

- Which social categories are represented and absent? - Are there any explicit or implicit assumptions about the social categories or about relation among social categories? - How do these categories support or oppose each other? (Marfelt, 2016, p.41)

As pointed out by Marfelt, these questions needed to be adapted for this thesis with the intention to extract the intersection of race, gender and class from the collected data. This analytical framework can potentially reveal how specific categories are prioritized (ibid).

4.2 The theory of uses and gratifications (U&G)

As this study attempts to understand the position of the ABG podcast within the developments of Asian American representation, an analysis of its content alone may not be efficient enough. Thus, the choice to incorporate media effects theory to address why the ABG podcast is embraced by their listeners and what effects the podcast has upon them. The theory of uses and gratification (U&G) will be applied to establish the theoretical discussion drawing on research studies by Thomas E. Ruggiero (2000) and Paul Haridakis (2013). Historically, the theory of U&G was developed as a subtradition of media effects research to study the gratifications that attract audiences to certain types of media and content (Ruggiero, 2000, p.3). Paul Haridakis (2013) explains that the theory of U&G is “an audience-centered media-effects perspective” that explores the consequences of media use (2013, p.2), and

believes that there are motives behind people’s usage of media, however most effects are unintended (ibid). Moreover, this theory recognizes people as goal-oriented giving the reason that their use of media is to satisfy certain needs (2013, p.3). In the research field, different U&G studies have focused on different parts of this theory such as motives for using media, influences of the circumstances on these motives, and variability of audience activity (2013, p.4). It is worth to mention that this theory has not been employed by the researchers to analyze the effects per se, but rather on the causes and reasons of how media are used (2013, p.10).

Like any other theories, the theory of U&G has its own challenges. Firstly, as it mainly focuses on the individual use of media, it has a tendency to be too individualistic. Added by, Thomas E. Ruggiero (2000), this theory seems to struggle to include societal implications of media use (2000, p.12) which could cause difficulty for researchers to conduct an analysis at a macro level perspective. Another methodological critique towards the theory of U&G is the lack of clarity in its meanings of central concepts which obstructs conceptual development (ibid). With the constantly developing communicative technologies, the traditional communication media theorization of media use is being questioned by various scholars regarding whether the needs are the same (2000, p.14). This is because of the expansion of media forms and content options that media consumers are exposed to, and hence, this development of satisfaction and gratification could be challenging to the traditional audience analysis (ibid). The key assumption of the theory of U&G is still that the audience has the ability to make a conscious choice and connect their gratification with certain type of media channel and content (Ruggiero, 2000, p.26). Thus, the emphasis on the individual differences, social contexts in the audience experience, and the importance of motives and needs, the U&G provides a valuable analytical tool (Haridakis, 2013, p.16). While it aims to explain media consumption, use, and effects through viewing the motives (Haridakis, 2013, p.11) in this digital era, the question “why do people become involved in one particular type of media and what gratifications do they receive from it?” remains the same(Ruggiero, 2000, p.29). As an attempt to conduct a more comprehensive analysis of this topic, the theory of U&G has been chosen as a compliment. This approach will help me understand the effects that the ABG podcast has on their listeners. The following chapter will outline the methodology of this thesis paper.

5. Methodology

This chapter aims to provide a thorough presentation of the methodological approaches of this thesis. It is divided into five subsections with the first one (5.1) discussing the research design that has been appropriated for the research objectives. In the following subsection (5.2), the procedure of sampling will be discussed, and in 5.3 a brief presentation of narrative analysis will be given before the questionnaire method together with its background, process and results are presented in 5.4. Lastly, this chapter is ended with ethical considerations in 5.5

5.1 Research design

Here I will provide a discussion of the research design in order to answer these following research questions: - How does the ABG podcast produce alternative narrative of the Asian American experience? - In what ways do issues of racial, gender and class dominance intersect in their content? - What are the effects of these narratives on their listeners? Nicholas Walliman (2017) asserts that the research design is determined by the research interest and problem, and it is the research design that provides a framework for how data can be collected and analyzed (2017, p.14). It is common to combine more than two types of research designs and each of which involves use of specific types of methods (ibid). For this thesis, the evaluation and cultural research designs are considered the most appropriate. Departing from Walliman’s work (2017), the evaluation research design is intended to investigate complex social issues and try to make sense of the involved contextual elements such as political, social and cultural (2017, p.11). This has been applied to the specific aims of this thesis in uncovering and understanding the impacts the ABG podcast has on its listeners. Consequently, the questionnaire method has been chosen to collect the necessary data to answer the research questions. Nevertheless, the two paradigms according to Gerard Guthrie (2010) of positivism and post-positivism have been treated as mutually exclusive, but over time the use of mixed methods has been increasing in social science research (2010, p.45). It does not necessarily mean that I as a researcher should neglect the existing

methodological viewpoints where researchers approach their data and reach the conclusions using different methodologies (ibid). Using both quantitative and qualitative methods to conduct and analyze the data would rather complement one another as both of which have their respective weaknesses and strengths. Moreover, through the mixed method strategies for social research, the researcher is enabled to gain new insights into the social world (Axinn et.al., 2006, p.1). There are a couple of objectives for conducting a mixed methods research as presented by Walliman (2017), and for this thesis in particular, the main aims are to gain an insights into a phenomenon such as developments of Asian American media while addressing a theoretical perspective at different levels (2017, 169), where a single research design might not be efficient enough. Due to the nature of this research, the methodological strategies to approach and examine the empirical data are qualitative.

5.2 Sampling

Sampling is a significant process, not the least to this present research study, as it is “the selection of a subset of a population for inclusion in a study”, and if done properly and accurately, it can provide valid results that are useful (Daniel 1, 2012, p.1). Besides the objectives of the research study, the sampling should be done in conjunction with other significant choices including research design as it involves the data collection and analysis (2012, p.7). As for this research, the mixed-method research design has been chosen which means that this has implications for how the sampling procedures will be carried out. Throughout the years, the sampling strategies have been adjusted in correspondence to the ongoing modifications of technology, cultures, the legal environment among others (Daniel 2, 2012, p.3), and all of which has different impacts on the research conduction. As previously mentioned, if the sampling procedures done properly, it will save the researcher’s time, effort and other resources all the while bringing the insightful results. Departing from Derek Layder (2013), I have adapted and applied the strategies of problem sampling to this research study’s sampling procedures. Meaning that, the sample does not necessarily represent the population from which it has been selected but it rather reflects the research problems and questions that are the objectives of the examination (Layder, 2013, p.3). These samples will serve as the data for this research because of their relevance and richness that are appropriate for in-depth study. It is noteworthy that problem sampling can be applied to both qualitative and

quantitative research designs (ibid.). The size of the sample was also determined in relation to other components of the research study (Daniel 3, 2012, p.2) as well as to the limitations of resources. However, for the problem sampling, the size is less significant than the richness of the selected cases and the analytical capabilities of the researcher (Layder, 2013, p.14). Considering the scale of this research and limitations of resources, three episodes have been selected for a deep reading and theorizing, which include nos. 22, 29 and 30. The criteria for the selection has been based on their relevance to the objectives of this research. In learning more about the ABG’s perspectives on the development of Asian American representation in media, episode 22 with the title Asian American Women in Media was selected. Simply, the topics that are discussed in this episode shed light on the representation of Asian American women in media, the importance of relatability versus influence, and the impacts that the changes in media landscape have on today’s Asian American women (AsianBossGirl, Episode 22). To prompt questions regarding the ABG’s perspectives on themselves as Asian American, episode 29 with the title Asian Women - Do We Fit the Stereotypes? was selected. It discusses the stereotypes applied to the women of Asian descent and how each of the podcast hosts could relate to them (AsianBossGirl, Episode 29). Lastly, episode 30 was selected, with the title Pursuit of Yappiness, since it interviews with one of the co-founders of the independent Asian American media production company Wong Fu Productions, was selected. The selection of this episode was on the basis of the rich content that reflects their understanding of cultural, social, political and economic complexities within the Asian American community in the United States. From this perspective, they discussed the topics around the model minority myth (AsianBossGirl, Episode 30) which has widely been spread out and perpetuated in media. In order to answer the third research questions regarding the listeners’ responses to the content produced by the ABG, I therefore have come up with strategies for how to collect relevant data but it is noteworthy to mention that the direction of the research will become more apparent as asserted by Layder as the conduction unfolds (ibid). How these strategies have been applied in practice will be presented in detail in the following sections.

5.3 Narrative analysis

Departing from Cigdem Esin (2011), narrative analysis provides a variety of methods to approach stories (2011, p.92). Historically, narrative analysis has developed within two traditions and one of which focus on the linguistic structure and content of narratives, while the other focuses on the act of storytelling and narrative construction (2011, p.92). Esin points out that the definition of “narrative” varies depending on the discipline, but its strength is the same in giving meaning to experience (2011, p.93). Thus, narrative analysis is considered appropriate to approach the narrative of Asian American experience provided by the ABG podcast. In order to make the data analyzable, I transcribed the chosen episodes and have chosen to apply Labov’s model to identify narrative clauses in the stories before choosing the ones that will add value to the analysis and the aims of this thesis. Labov’s structural model offers lens for identifying event narratives from a structural linguistic perspective because it believes that stories are temporally ordered with three different sequences: beginning, middle and end (Frost, 2012, p.10). Moreover, Labov’s model provides means to reduce text and make it identifiable as a narrative which is appropriate to be used as a starting point in the analysis (ibid). In addition to helping the researcher reduce the stretches of text, especially when dealing with a text like podcast that contains unstructured stories, this structural model offers means to identify important narratives in the transcripts as well as to evaluate the content (Esin, 2011,p.107). Since this thesis aims to examine the lived experiences and clarify the meanings of those told in the narratives (ibid), it is crucial to conduct the analysis in a systematic approach, rather than a generic coding procedure in order to establish the underlying themes. The below table shows my development of the elements of story text in this model and questions which it believes all narratives address (Esin, 2011, p.106)

Elements Questions

Abstract What was this about?

Orientation Who? When? What? Where?

Complicating Action Then what happened?

Evaluation So what?

Result What finally happened?

Figure 2. Labov’s structural model

By answering these questions, the analysis will be able to reveal narrative clauses in the stories and thereafter their specific meanings that help us gain a better insight into the lived experiences told by the ABG podcast hosts. However, the limitation of the structural model is its inability to pay attention to the historical, social, cultural and political contextualization of the narratives (Esin, 2011, p.206). Thus, I am complementing this method with the holistic content approach proposed by Amia Lieblich, Rivka Tuval-Mashiach and Tamar Zilber (2011). This specific approach sheds light on the themes that emerge from the narrative in relation to its entire context (2011, p.11), which is suitable for my analysis in defining what constitutes the alternative narrative of the Asian American experience by taking the ABG podcast’s history and social, political cultural contexts into consideration.

5.4 Questionnaire

In order to answer the research questions, the questionnaire method has also been applied to collect data and evidence from the ABG podcast listeners. There are three main aspects that distinguish questionnaire from the survey method because often times, they are associated with one another (Guthrie, 2010, p.129). The three aspects to consider in formulating a questionnaire are general form, question sequence, and question formulation and wording (Kothari, 2004, p.102). Questionnaires can be structured or unstructured, and for the present thesis, the questionnaire was structured which means that the same set of questions was sent to the respondents and questions in the questionnaire were constructed (2004, p.101). According to Gerard Guthrie (2010), there are two main types of questions in the questionnaire: open response and closed response (2010, p.130). Researchers use open-response questions to get comprehensive answers without limiting the respondents. However, these types of questions have a lower level of reliability because different interviewers produce different answers (ibid). While closed-response questions have predetermined options and the choices for answers are restrictive, but more reliable because the questions and answers are fixed (Guthrie, 2010, p.131). For my questionnaire specifically,

I have chosen both types of question formulation sto maximize their strengths in gaining as much valuable data as possible.

Questionnaires as a method are low cost and able to be widely disseminated geographically (Kothari, 2004, p.100). As I used Google Forms to create my questionnaire, at no cost, and the link to it could be shared across different platforms conveniently. Secondly, with questionnaires the respondents can take their time to give answers without feeling stressed out (Kothari, 2004, p.101) and are able to review their answers before submitting the form. Using a digital form with a link also made it convenient for me to reach out to the respondents who otherwise wouldn’t be as easily approachable face to face. The shortcomings of this method are the risks of the questionnaire not being filled out properly upon the return, and therefore the possibility of uncertainty. There is also the issue of bias due to omission and ambiguity in replies is fairly high. Furthermore, the researchers do not have any control over the questionnaire once it is sent and it is difficult to determine whether the responses are representative (ibid). Since the respondents are allowed to edit and take their time in giving answers, the results might not be as spontaneous.

5.4.1 Data collection

After reviewing the research questions and aims, the data collection process started with selecting the most relevant and interesting episodes of the ABG podcasts for creating an online questionnaire on Google Forms (Figure 3). The questionnaire was divided into 6 sections with 18 questions in total (Appendix 1). Each section was dedicated to different purposes and consisted of both open-response, closed-response questions and multiple choice. Section 1 and 2 were intended to obtain general information about the respondents and their contact with the podcast, while the questions in section 3 were specified and related to the topics discussed in episodes 22, 29 and 30 of ABG. Section 4 contained questions to find out about the respondents’ general attitude towards the podcast in relation to the developments of Asian American representation in media, as well as the discussed topics. The intention behind section 5 was to explore the possibility of the listeners listening to other podcasts hosted by Asian American presenters, and in section 6, the respondents were allowed to add their own remarks. In the very beginning, the respondents were informed of

the aim of this questionnaire and that they would stay anonymous but have the chance to leave their email in case they were interested in receiving the results.

Figure 3. Questionnaire

The questionnaire was reviewed by my thesis supervisor before being shared in two Facebook groups (Asian Creative Network and Subtle Asian Women) and on my personal Instagram account. The questionnaire was made available for one week before I stopped collecting responses. However, there were some challenges I encountered during the process which will be addressed later on in the section on ethical considerations (4.5). Applying the problem sampling strategies that were presented previously (4.2), it was a conscious choice to look for respondents in the Facebook Group Asian Creative Network (hereafter ACN) where the group members consist of people with an interest or pursue in the creative, media and/or entertainment field. As described by the group founders, ACN “strives to inspire and elevate Asian creatives who want to explore and pursue their creative passions” (The Asian Creative Network, 2020). Since I have access to this group, I created a post recruiting respondents for my questionnaire and submitted it on March 5, 2020. However, the post was not approved by the admins until March 9, 2020 (Figure). In an attempt to reach out to more possible respondents, I created another post for the Facebook Group Subtle Asian Women which is an international group for women of Asian descent to connect, voice their worries, and share their experiences (Subtle Asian Women, 2020). The post was discarded on the basis of one of the rules not allowing self-promotion. Going back to Derek Layder (2013), before carrying out this data collection, I was aware of the impossibility to include everyone in the research population in the sample, and therefore the results and analysis of the results will not

represent the population in the study parameters (2013, p. 13). Considering the scale of the present research study, it was also a strategy to recruit the respondents using these approaches instead of, for instance, sending a direct message to the followers of the ABG podcast on Instagram or contacting the ABG podcast hosts and asking for their assistance to promote. I believed that I’d be able to collect a more nuanced set of data by reaching out on those platforms. Lastly, as further asserted by Layder, the sampling was terminated after a week because there did not yield any new insights in the responses which made it appropriate to stop the data collection process (2013, 14).

5.4.2 Results

After one week of sampling relevant data, the questionnaire was filled out by twelve respondents, ten of which identified themselves as female while the other two as male. Three respondents are over 30 years old; one is between 28-30, one is between 20-23 and the rest is between 24-27 (Figure 4).

Figure 4. Graph excerpted from the questionnaire shows the ages of the respondents

Asking demographic questions such as gender and age provides the basic data for the analysis, and allows the researcher to identify the target audience of the podcast when examining the applied communications strategies. It is noteworthy to mention that the questionnaire did not specifically ask the ethnicity of the respondents as the aim of this research is not to create statistics based on such data nor is the research scale big enough to do so. The number of data collected may seem too insufficient to draw any generalization. However, due to the nature and purposes of this research design, the sampling places a bigger significance on the relevance of data rather than the size. The results of questionnaire has also shown that, the bigger number of respondents does not necessarily mean a wider variety of valuable insights for this thesis. For an example, for the optimal utilization of this data, the analysis intentionally excludes responses by Respondent 2 due to lack of relevance and

values. This leads us back to the discussion on the sampling strategies in 5.2, where I argued that the data is collected in correspondence to the aims of this thesis and not to represent the population from which it has been selected. Furthermore, the questionnaire was designed to ask more open-ended questions for acquiring in-depth knowledge, and therefore, the scope of this thesis is unable to account for management of a bigger number of respondents. The questionnaire has provided some insightful and relevant data for the analysis, but there are methodological concerns that should be addressed. In the following section, I will introduce the ethical considerations in carrying out this research.

5.5 Ethical considerations and limitations

Every research study has its own ethical dilemmas and limitations, and therefore, it is important for me as a researcher to acknowledge and take them into consideration in the process of conducting my research. Regardless of the type of research, there are concerns according to Sharan B. Merriam and Elizabeth J. Tisdell (2016) regarding ensuring validity and reliability, and establishing trustworthiness of the study is crucial (2016, p.237). Ethical practices should be involved in every step from the conceptualization to data collection, analysis, interpretation and the presentation of the findings (2016, p.238). Understanding the nature of the chosen research design is also important. Each research design is based on different assumptions about the investigation and research questions (ibid). Throughout the years, there have been theoretical debates on the consensus among the research scholars to what counts as appropriate criteria for validity and reliability in qualitative research. For instance, research questions and worldview should be congruent with the philosophical in order to secure the trustworthiness (2016, p.239), while some place a great emphasis on transparency and the researcher's stance and contribution (2016, p.240). For this research, I have been proceeding on the basis of transparency and explaining the purpose of objectives and contribution to the field of this research as well as the chosen methodological approaches.

Certain concerns do emerge in the procedures of data collection. Since the internet has many times become the main resource for qualitative research studies, working with online data sources requires special observations. First of all, Internet is a contingent landscape in

constant development which means that data such as responses on social media or user generated content can be short-lived (2016, p.184). Meaning that the available data can be taken down at anytime which definitely will have impacts on the research. As widely as the internet helps the research expand its accessibility to useful information, assessment of the authenticity of the data sources is still important (2016, p.186). In attending this aspect, the data I have collected for the analysis has been retrieved from verified websites. Giving an example to this, the information about ABG podcast is available on their website and social media channels. The podcast episodes are also accessed through Apple Podcast and Spotify. It is worthy to mention that I started gathering data and relevant information for this research in February and in the beginning of March which means that any changes which took place after that will not be included. On April 16, the ABG podcast released its 60th episode announcing that the hosts had quite their full-time positions on the show, and explained how this has affected the podcast format. Unfortunately, this episode cannot be reviewed.

It is one of the basic ethical principles in research that before embarking on data collection, the autonomy of the participants or respondents must be respected and protected (Guest et.al., 2017, p.2). Collecting data through questionnaire prompted concern about informed consent. As a concept, informed consent is based on information, comprehension and voluntariness (2017, p.9). All the respondents were informed of the objectives of the questionnaire and the research, and everything was communicated in writing. They stayed anonymous but had the opportunity to leave their email address if they would be interested in keeping contact for the questionnaire results. Anonymity was addressed right in the introduction of the questionnaire. Lastly, all respondents participated in the questionnaire voluntarily. This was assured through the approach of disseminating the questionnaire in Facebook Groups and on Instagram.

Another important concern is the researcher’s position and reflexivity (Merriam & Tisdell, 2016, p.249).The researchers should be able to position themselves in their studies and clarify among other things their theoretical orientation, worldview and experiences, because all of which will be reflected in how the interpret their data as well as how they arrive to their conclusions (ibid). Not only would this support the authenticity of the research, but also such clarification would secure its validity and reliability. From early on, I clarified my purposes of this research which is based on personal interest. As a person of Southeast Asian descent

growing up with the Western mainstream media, issues of representation, identity and community encouraged me to work with the ABG podcast and development of Asian American representations in media. This research study is my attempt to contribute to the overarching discussion that stemmed from the increasing exposure to diversity in the media entertainment industry. Furthermore, the issue of language and terminology of Asian American was also an important ethical consideration that I had to address. As a result of my position in this thesis, I relied on the existing studies and collected data in contextualizing and theorizing the term Asian American identity.

6. Analysis

Following the process of making the collected data analyzable, this chapter is divided into four sections to; firstly examine the narratives of Asian American experience in episode 22, 29 and 30; secondly identify the emerging themes from the previous stage; thereafter conduct an in-depth reading from the intersectional framework; and lastly, present the results from the questionnaire using the theory of U&G. It is worth noting that due to the scale of the research, the procedure of identifying themes across the collected data is limited to the objective of this thesis which is to explore the unexplored area in the research field of media and communications drawing upon the previous studies. On the other hand, it is crucial to be self-reflexive as a researcher. I am aware of my subjectivity as a listener of this podcast and an outsider (a person of Southeast Asian descent being raised in Sweden) that might have influenced the process of data interpretation and analysis. However, based on this acknowledgement and limitations of the thesis, a proposal for further studies will be presented in the conclusion chapter.

6.1 Analyzing the ABG podcast for key narratives: Ep. 22, 29 and 30

This section of the analysis will appropriate Labov’s model (Esin, 2011) to identify the elements of the stories that are related to the Asian American experience in the transcription of episode 22, 29 and 30. Following that order, there are three separate parts for each episode consisting of 10 selected stories with identifiable narratives that are valuable to the thesis. These stories were selected after rounds of thorough reviews of transcriptions and applying Labov’s structural approach to look for stories with the sequence of phrases that indicate ‘beginning, middle and end’ (Frost, 2009, p.10).

6.1.1 Episode 22: On Role models and relatability

In this episode, Helen, Janet and Melody discuss the insufficient representation of Asian American women in media while growing up. Helen started off by sharing her story of encountering one of their listeners at the after party of the Crazy Rich Asian movie release. Reflecting on the situation, she stated that it occurred to her that the ABG podcast influences their listeners “in a way that they are not getting out of their own lives”. She positioned them

as “older sisters” and their listeners as “these young girls”. Connecting this encounter to the theme of their discussion, Helen proceeded the presentation of the main topic of this episode, which is the Asian American women who influenced them (Appendix 2).

Story 1

Abstract I remember Kristi Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan were in Winter Olympics as ice skaters

Orientation And my parents focused on Michelle Kwan a lot because she was not only Chinese but she went to UCLA, so she was a local person

Complicating Action I danced when I was growing up so I felt somewhat of relatability in that sense

Evaluation But even then, Olympic people are not people that you find like, oh i see myself in them

Result So even then she was influential but it wasn't super relatable

Janet began this story by reminiscing the way in which her parents could relate to an Asian American Olympics ice skater at the the time, who became a role model (Appendix 2). This story emphasizes the relatability specifically towards Michelle Kwan who she describes as a local person. It signifies the personal connection because Kwan went to UCLA and is Chinese American and Janet (the host) was borned and raised in California, and she is also Chinese American. In addition to these external connections, Janet added another layer of identification through her interest as a kid in dancing. Even though she did not grow up ice-skating, her interest was close enough to make her feel somewhat connected to Kwan. However, Michelle Kwan was to her an influential figure because she was part of the Olympics but also not relatable enough that Janet could emulate her ambitions and other attributes to her own.

Story 2

Abstract I feel like when we were younger, we’d just take whatever was given to us

Orientation We’re not looking for these Asian influencers because we didn’t even know that that was a thing

Evaluation If we had like a slew of Asian influencers out there

Evaluation Then we would be like “oh that is so cool, and I want to relate to them or I want to seek them out more”

Complicating Action Because we didn’t even have that

Result We just took like Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera

Helen’s story explains the reason to why minoritized groups can sometimes lack the ability or confidence to question the social milieu that they are in; and therefore the power to influence (Appendix 2). It provides another perspective on how the lack of Asian representation in the United States media reinforced their interests and aspirations when they were younger. Not being able to choose what they wanted to or would be able to be exposed to (i.e. more diversity), they resorted to white celebrities. Even though both stories shed light on relatability in media during the hosts’ teenage years, this story differs from Janet’s local hero, in the sense that the limited exposure in media caused these effects on their decisions they made about who they look up to. This story contributes to the overall understanding of the Asian American experience, and significant narratives such as this one emerged from the transcript through this structural model (Esin, 2011, p.106-7).

Story 3

Abstract I always wished that I had an older sister growing up

Orientation Someone I looked up to growing up was someone in choir

Complicating Action I looked up to her

Evaluation because I saw myself in her

Complicating Action I kinda called her the elevated version of myself

Result The way she handles work is something that I want to be able to handle it in the way she does

This story was shared by Melody to express her feeling of wanting to have an older sister to look up to. Leading up to this story, they were discussing the lack of Asians in media, there was no one that they could feel related to growing up, thus, they would latch on the people in their surroundings (Appendix 4). However, since Melody does not have an older sister, she chose to look up to a person in the choir that she was a part of. Not only could she see herself in this person, she even wanted to emulate the qualities of this person. The analysis discovers the evaluation clauses where the narrator presents her perspective on the event (Esin, 2011, p.106). Melody reports the action that reveals her emotions, and seeing herself in this person is therefore the point mediated in this story. To summarize, as they could not find their role models in media, they organically looked for those qualities in the people in their life with whom they felt they could relate to, and also shared some similarities. Throughout their discussion on the lack of Asian American representation, their experiences the thematic of relatability continued to reoccur. Therefore, I have chosen the sections of the podcast transcript that contain such stories from three different perspectives.

6.1.2 Episode 29: Assimilation and subversion

Janet, Helen and Melody were sharing their takes on the stereotypes projected on Asian American women in this episode. The discussion was opened up with a definition of stereotype taken from the Internet, to create a common understanding of what counts as stereotypes and not. Since the episode was divided into three main categories; stereotypes of Asian women, stereotypes of their professions, and stereotypes of the cities they were growing up in, this section will analyze three stories, one from each category.

Story 4

Abstract I think I’m somewhat opposite of this stereotype of woman being quiet

Orientation In my household, the women in my family are the head of the household

Complicating Action A lot of people would assume that I’m very controlling

Complicating Action I like to have things done in a certain way

Result Men are really turned off by that

While discussing the stereotypes projected on Asian women in the United States, Melody confidently told the story of the leading roles that women in her family have (Appendix 5). Clearly, strong female leaders are soppostional to the stereotype of the quiet and submissive Asian woman. The analysis reveals the complicating action clauses that relate the events of the story (Esin, 2011, p.106). Because of following the women in her household, people assume that Melody is controlling, and the story ends with the negative effects of this personality trait on men.

Story 5

Abstract I am a content producer for social media for a woman fashion site

Orientation The judgement that i get right away is that your job is very easy

Complicating Action I’ve realized that there’s so much work that goes in to social media

Result I think that people think that there’s no much work involved

Discussing the stereotypes on the professions that they are currently having; Melody’s story starts with describing her current job position as a content producer for social media

(Appendix 6). Since the story is told to uncover the stereotypical judgement that she has received from other people but since her role entails more tasks and responsibilities than what people are aware of, she has realized the amount of effort that is put into working with social media. This complicating action clause connects the story together, and it ends with Melody believing that this specific judgement stems from the assumptions that people who do not work with social media have made, without knowing the actual job descriptions. It reminds of the multidimensional characteristics of Asians that led to the celebratory discourse around the Crazy Rich Asians movie, and how this has impacted the representation of Asian Americans (Sugino, 2019). Being said, working as a content producer for social media does not fall under the traditional images of Asians depicted in mainstream media.

Story 6

Abstract For the longest time, I used to avoid saying that I’m from the Orange County and for a while I’d say that I’m from the South of Irvine

Orientation When I’m meeting Asian American people

Complicating Action They know Irvine but they have a different idea of Orange County

Result I often get typecasted for being white-washed

Janet’s story is about her trying to avoid the stereotypical biases that people have towards Orange County where she grew up in (Appendix 7). It is not only about her avoiding these biases which include speaking with “the LA accent” and being “white-washed” or “a Valley girl”, but she has also internalized the negative perceptions of Orange County that have been primarily based on the series O.C.1, and therefore decided to tell other Asian Americans that she is from South of Irvine. As she later explains, Irvine has a better reputation, and by saying that she is from there makes her come across as someone more intelligent. The story reveals that Janet has assumed the values, behaviors as well as biases of the dominant group.

1 The O.C. is a drama TV-series following lives of a group of teens in the upper-class neighborhood of Newport Beach, Orange County California (IMDB, 2020).

This episode consists of different insights into the Asian American experience, but not all of them make complete stories with narrative clauses (Esin, 2011, p.105). Nonetheless, these three stories contribute to an alternative narrative of Asian American experience that includes both traditional degrading stereotypes depicted by mainstream media (Espiritu, 1997, p.13), and the everyday life ones. The narrative analysis has been used specifically to explore individual experiences and access a better understanding about each host’s expectations and realities (Frost, 2012, p.10). Hence, I was able to identify the patterns of subversion and assimilations in the analyzed stories.

6.1.3 Episode 30: Something old and something new

For this episode, a guest, Philip Wong from Wong Fu Productions, was joining the ABG to discuss the topic of the ‘Yappie’, or young professional Asian. Stories circulated around their individual professional experience as well as their point of view on the Asian American community. I have chosen four stories from both the guest and hosts for the analysis.

Story 7

Abstract There’s such a huge population of Asian Americans

Orientation That do think because of us growing up in immigrant families, they are living right now very inactive or not proactive or complacent

Complicating Action I just wanted to say that we’re a powerful group

Result A lot of Asians, they just don’t care

This story begins with Philip stating that the Asian demographic is a big minority group in the United States, but within the setting of how they were brought up, they are not living a proactive life (Appendix 8). To him, being a big demographic group is not enough if Asian Americans are complacent with how they live their life following their immigrant parents. His assessment is that younger generations of Asian Americans do not care or are not fully aware of what is happening in the community. It is the feeling of frustration and

disappointment but at the same time hopefulness, as the complicating action clause demonstrates, that Philip believes that Asian Americans are powerful. Labov’s structural model is an appropriate mean for examining spoken narratives produced in different contexts (Esin, 2011, p.106), and the transcripts of this episode helps me contextualize the Asian American experience in relation to the perception of community at large.

Story 8

Abstract We didn’t have anyone to really look up to in terms of in entertainment or working 9-5 and providing a void for people like us

Orientation 90% of the people are Yappies within the Asian American community

Complicating Action A lot of us are still children of immigrants and we’re still holding on to those values that our parents have had

Evaluation We’re still a very silence community and that our voices are coming from the 10% that are in the entertainment

Result Their stories are very different from everyone else’s

In contributing to Philip’s story on the upbringing in immigrant families, Helen’s story emphasizes the inactive tendencies of the Asian American community even though 90% of the community members have the ability to make a change (Appendix 8). Due to the silence, their experience is being depicted through the stories told by the 10% in the media and entertainment industry which they feel is not reflective. This story confirms the impacts of being in a diasporic community in the current culture with shifting media representations and intercultural dynamics. Helen implicitly argues how the role of children to immigrant parents has been imprinted by traditional values and situational elements, such as being in “survival mode” through securing a safe job, and taking care of the family. However, this experience is not represented in media, and members of Asian American community cannot necessarily relate to what is offered by the 10 % (Shi, 2005, p.64). The summary is that both stories

strongly imply the desire to have a more inclusive media industry and a more participatory culture in the Asian American community, where people are more aware and living an active life.

Story 9

Abstract I had a good 4-5 years of just like trying a bunch of different stuff and kind of rounded back out to a lifestyle that someone could define as a Yappie lifestyle

Orientation Out of college, I fell into that

Complicating Action I didn’t make active decisions, I just checked the boxes.

Result But now it was an active decision that I chose to come back here

Being asked whether the hosts define themselves as Yappies, this story describes the way in which Janet could relate to the Yappie lifestyle while having the opportunity to explore the other route (Appendix 9). However, this story also reveals the flexibility in Janet’s experience as she did have a choice to become a Yappie, in contrary to the time she graduated college. This could be connected to Story 2, where Helen emphasized minors’ inability to make their own decision. As an Asian American, she was just trying to “check the box” which is an expression that reoccurs throughout this episode in describing the common inactive lifestyle. Proving the argument by Nollaig Frost (2009), that narrative analysis could recognize how people try to make sense of their lives through stories (2009, p.9), and Janet uses this story to present herself and her experience in becoming a Yappie to the others.

Story 10

Abstract When I first started working, I went to freelance right away

Orientation and pursued my passion and I didn’t make any money

Evaluation I think stability is the core part of being a Yappie

Complicating Action I wasn’t satisfied with my 9-5 job

Result which is why I’m doing this podcast now

Through this story, Melody uncovers her unconventional career path as she goes for the pursuit of passion, which is a new narrative for a community pressured to uphold traditions (Appendix 10). Early on, she knew that having a typical traditional job was not fulfilling for her. Yet, the story also reveals the downside of this route as it is not profitable as well as her interpretation of what constitutes a Yappie - stability. Even though she wants stability, her passion wins her over as she is seeking to fill the void of creativity through this podcast, which cannot be accessed at her 9-5 job. Similar to Janet’s story, this story demonstrates the freedom and flexibility that this generation of Asian Americans are having. It is a different experience to the history of the construction of the Asian American identity, which was strongly connected to the political and social movement during the war times (Lopez, 2016, p. 20).

A systematic application of analytical model is significant to analyzing the narratives, but since I am already aware of the variety of stories which are located in the data through the transcripts, the most appropriate analytical model was chosen in respect to the content and context (Esin, 2011, p.104). The identification of elements within the 10 stories have provided me with insights about the Asian American experience that hardly can be seen in mainstream media. As much as the information is valuable and insightful, I am interested in reading these stories in light of the context in its entirety, therefore, the emerging themes will be presented through the holistic content approach (Lieblich et al., 2011) in the following section.

6.2 The emerging foci

While Labov’s model provides a structural analysis to make meaning of the experiences told in the narratives (Frost, 2011, p.107), I am interested in the patterns across the stories that can contribute to a better understanding of the Asian American experience, and are valuable to the thesis. Hence, I have chosen the holistic content perspective proposed by Amia Lieblich,

Rivka Tuval-Mashiach and Tamar Zilber (2011) to identify and discuss the emerging foci in a comprehensive manner.

6.2.1 Challenging the norms

The narrative of Asian American experience provided in these episodes prove the argument by Lisa Lowe (1991) that, the younger generation is contesting the more restrictive gender role of older generations (1991, p.25). The American born generation has obtained a different perception of gender roles to their immigrant parents which was also brought up in episode 29, that the woman takes care of the kids and stay at home while the man is out taking care of the business. However, Asian women have also been portrayed as submissive and sexual objects in media (Pollard, 2017), and it has impacted on the public attitude towards this demographic as described by Helen in episode 29 (Appendix 4):

Helen: We typically get stereotyped of being very obedient and soft-spoken, meek, quiet and just playing along with the rules and not really disrupting the system.

Being obedient and non-controversial is often expected and therefore, the disruptive characteristic of Asians, particularly Asian women, is not something familiar to the public considering how the media portrayals have been historically. Melody’s story opposes to this traditional image where she describes herself as being “outspoken” and “controlling”. There are other parts of the podcast that showcase the theme of divergence. In the same episode, Melody also openly talked about how the stereotype of Asian women being quiet in bed was projected on her. The degrading sexual representation and objectification of Asian Americans as exotic is intertwined with the history of exoticism by the dominant white patriarchal structure (Espiritu, 1997, p.13). This structure could be seen in Melody’s white colleagues perception of Asian women, when they assumed that she would be quiet or a “starfish” in bed. Another narrative that disrupts the traditional stereotypical representation of Asian Americans is Janet’s story. The exemplars of Asian women she could feel related to were Kristi Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan who were Olympics ice skaters. Asian Americans or Asian women in such powerful roles are hardly represented in media. Moreover, Melody’s profession as a social media content producer certainly goes against what is considered as a traditional typical job and portrayed through the stereotype “model minority” to describe

Asians as polite and nerdy (Pollard, 2017, p133). Working with social media is far from being “nerdy” in conservative eyes.

Having a flexible, spontaneous and adventurous character does not conform to the media depiction of Asian Americans, which was voiced clearly in Janet’s story when she recalled her years after college. She had the flexibility to go down different career paths and even go volunteering in Kenya before she made an active decision to return to what would be described as traditional. This theme appeared in both episode 29 and 30 as to emphasize the disruption of what used to be expected from the Asian culture. Following Janet’s story, Melody who already was working with a very non-traditional profession, her career path is also contesting the Asian American norms. In her story, she admitted that she went straight to freelance to pursuit her passion and she ended up not making much money. This implies that economic stability is valued by many immigrant families which goes back to Kent A. Ono and Vincent Pham (2009), who sees the Asian American identity as a collected term for those individual struggles against economic oppression (2009, p.9). However, this survival mode mindset has been carried over to the younger generation, therefore, striving to become a “starving artist”, or working with social media, or having a creative side project such as podcast is not considered desirable. This theme of disruption could be seen as contesting both the stereotypical representation produced and perpetuated by media, and also the traditional cultural practices and values which are owed to the first generation of Asian immigrants to the United States. It demonstrates the wide spectrum of the Asian American racial identity as discussed by Lisa Lowe (1991) and the multidimensionality of Asian characteristics that was celebrated through the Crazy Rich Asians movie (Sugino, 2019).

6.2.2 Relatable and active community members

Another valuable theme that has appeared across the three episodes exists in how they have described themselves and their relation to other Asian Americans. In episode 22, their stories were about the impacts that insufficient Asian representation had had on their interests as children or teenagers. Because there was no one in media that they could relate to, or that the celebrities were not relatable enough, they had to look for those role models in their surroundings. When looking at the history of Asian representation in the United States mainstream media, being relatable hardly belongs to the depiction of Asians, especially when

the stereotypical portrayals are “yellow peril” or “perpetual foreigner” (Pollard, 2017). It was undeniably problematic when Hollywood did not even allow actors of Asian descent to cast for a role of their own race and let it performed by white people (Fuller, 2010, p.2). Thus, relatability was absent in the Asian American experience.

This concept is somehow connected to their overall relationship to the Asian American community in general. In his story in episode 30, Philip presents a strong sense of frustration regarding what he deems as passivity in the Asian American community (Appendix 8):

Philip: There’s such a huge population of Asian Americans that do think because of us growing up in immigrant families, did our living right now very inactive or not proactive or complacent. I just wanted to say that we’re a powerful group if we all kinda wake up and participate in the community. I’m not telling everyone to go quit their job and be a starving painter or artist. But hey, are you at least conscious about what’s happening in your community, in politics, in entertainment, in education. A lot of Asians, they just don’t care. That’s what it comes down to.

Even though Philip asserted that he believes Asian Americans to be a powerful minority group in the United States, he explicitly disagreed that they care enough about the community. This character of being quiet and conforming to the norms, specifically the white dominant culture, signify the renowned “model minority myth”. As previously clarified, the model minority discourse not only describes this demographic as polite and smart people, but it also highlights the Asian Americans’ success in areas of academic, economic and career and rather reproduces the portrayals of them being hardworking and unproblematic (Kim, 2013, p.23). While Younghan Kim (2013) argues that this stereotype has tendencies to overlook social class struggles within the Asian American community (2013, p. 26), Lori Kido Lopez (2016) adds that Asians are supposed to be non-confrontational and passive in from the white dominant perspective, this portrayal also serves as a model for other minority groups (2016, p.17). Since this is what many of the younger generation of Asian Americans have been exposed to growing up and due to the Asian cultural values such as getting a good education, having a safe job and taking care of the family, possibly internalized this stereotype. Thus, it is not uncommon that they would be described as “a very silent

community” (Appendix 8). Somehow, it is linked to the relatability theme. When 90% have taken the traditional career path, this 10% accounts for the voice that comes from the Asian American community. It seems as though the ABG podcast hosts see themselves belonging to the 10%, who are relatable and active because they care about the community and are aware of their life decisions. Based on the lack of relatable Asian role models growing up and the belief that most Asian Americans are passive, the ABG podcast produces narratives wherein they believe that their audience could find relatable, and therefore, would encourage them to participate more in supporting the community.

6.3 Intersectional reading of the ABG podcast

The intention of the ABG podcast in extending the narrative of Asian American experience in media, and therefore the recognition of how these race, gender and class intersects in their content calls for an in depth reading using the intersectional framework. This resonates with Kimberle Crenshaw (1991) who argues that “identity-based politics has been a source of a strength, community, and intellectual development” for people of color and other minority groups ( 1991, p.1242). The ABG podcast has a marketing pitch of which appears across their communicative platforms including these three episodes, that this is “a podcast for the modern day Asian American woman”. Without an established definition of who counts as the modern day Asian American woman, there are patterns in their narratives that rather delineate potential exclusion of diversity. Consequently, it fails to recognize the pre-existing vulnerabilities of immigrant families and their children within the communities and leads to a dimension of disempowerment (Crenshaw, 1991, p.1249). It is connected to the way in which certain social categories are prioritized. Even though the three hosts are women of Asian descent, they have access to more social privileges on the grounds that they are young, educated, able-bodied, hetereosexual and born in the United States. Furthermore, they enjoy relative security with commendable professions at the time they were recording these episodes, and able to afford and maintain a comfortable lifestyle in Los Angeles. Needless to say, they are well off, and enjoy more freedom than their immigrant parents when they first came to the United States. The absent social categories in this narrative are naturally those who have not acquired a university degree; are job seeking and not able to afford to move out; are disabled; belong to a religious minority group; have other sexuality/gender than the

mentioned; and/or have mixed heritage, but still they belong to the Asian American communities and share the same experiences of growing up between American circumstances and Asian values. Notably, the narrative of Asian American experience offered by the ABG podcast potentially obscures the specificities of diversity among Asians and contribute to homogenizing this racialized identity (Lowe, 1991, p.26). It neglects the argument by Lisa Lowe (1991) that there is a wide spectrum within the discussion of Asian American demographic, and as much as a collected identity would account for the attempt to construct a collective culture, it risks representing itself as a fixed or unchangeable identification (1991, p.27). Let alone, the waves of immigration to the United States from Asia entails diversities in the experience of being Asian immigrants due to the different social, political and economic circumstances (ibid). There is also a visible class struggle between the working-class immigrants and educated business immigrants, who encounter completely distinct immigrant cultures. This failure to recognize this immigration history is also reflected in episode 30 where the assumption of Asians having the biggest purchasing power and 90% of this population being professionals. The multidimensionality and diversity of the Asian American community is not being addressed in the podcast as there are Asian American women at varied ages, who have grown up in other parts of the United States under less secure and poorer conditions. These layers do not exist in the media consensus, not even in the Crazy Rich Asians that was supposed to extend the diverse representation of Asians (Sugino, 2019). With the intersectional framework, this could be translated to the public perception of Asians in the 21st century that is closely interwoven with the model minority image (Kim, 2013), and the ethnicity discourse framing Asians as perpetual foreigners (Chow, 1998). It is clear that being able-bodied, educated, young and being born in the United States falls under their definition of the modern day Asian American woman, and the narrative is customized accordingly.

6.4 Relatability, connection and content neglected by mainstream media

This part serves to complement the analysis from the audience perspective. After reviewing the results of the questionnaire, it appears that most respondents started listening to the ABG podcast because they find the topics relatable:

In correspondence with these responses, some other respondents have also motivated that they started listening to the ABG podcast because they want to support “the community” (Respondent 9) and “Asians in media” (Respondent 7). Curiosity appeared among the responses as well, this was motivated by Respondent 3 who was intrigued to “see what they had to say as Asian American women”. When asked whether or not they are still listening to the podcast, four of the respondents answered that they no longer do so due to a variety of reasons, with one abstained from elaborating. For those respondents who answer yes to this question give similar responses to the reasons why they started listening in the first place which is relatability, while Respondent 4 explains that he continues to listen to the ABG podcast “because it continues to offer an Asian American experience and talk about issues that only we specifically face”. Building upon relatability, it is the personalized content that resonate with these ABG podcast listeners which has been argued by the theory of U&G that in the information age, audiences prefer content that speak to them “in a more personalized voice” over “a broader entertaining context” (Ruggiero, 2000, p.13). This is also reflected in

the responses from those who do not or have quit listening to this podcast. The obvious motive for the discontinuation is that there are other podcasts more in line with their interests, but there are also some other reactions that differ from these and are worth mentioning. Respondent 5 explains that she only finds certain topics interesting, while some episodes “felt like a group of girls gossiping”. Similar to Respondent 5, the ABG podcast appears as though they are “bubbled” to Respondent 12. More importantly, Respondent 12, who initially hoped that the content would be useful and relatable, quit listening to the podcast due to its lack of diversity in the representation of Asian women and “started questioning if the term ABG is even their responsibility to "redefine" as it was coined by Asian women of completely different backgrounds to them”. These answers demonstrate that the listeners are goal-oriented, and they listen to the ABG podcast to satisfy certain needs (Haidakis, 2013, p.3), which vary from filling representational gaps with more relevant media, to consuming a different kind of content.

Highlighting the topics of identity, representation and media, the respondents were asked about the specific three episodes that were analyzed earlier. The responses outline the various ways in which they connect the discussed topics to their own specific experiences, that they otherwise cannot encounter in the mainstream media. For example, Respondent 6 states that “they are perspectives specific to Asian women” which she “wouldn’t be able to publicly witness as a discussion elsewhere”. Adding to this response, Respondent 8 affirms the unexplained feeling she had when she was happy to see Asians on screen as a kid, as “there was no Asians in media growing up”, resembling the reaction by Respondent 11 who never had a chance to discuss these topics in high school and kept them to herself. Needless to say, these responses illustrate the lived experience of limited representation of Asians in media in agreement with the previous studies (Espiritu, 1997; Chow, 1998; Yuen, 2994), but also the lack of public and safe space for these conversations. The latter has been voiced clearly in the answer by Respondent 3 who finds the ABG podcast as “a forum to celebrate successful Asian women”. On the other hand, “successful Asian women” diverges from the media’s distorted images of Asian women as submissive that persisted over the years (Luther, 2017), but it simultaneously reflects the ABG podcast listeners perception of being successful (i.e. outspoken, anomaly, young, educated, professional, and someone to look up to). This attitude is interconnected to the studies of media stereotypes of Asian women. Growing up without

relatable Asian representatives, some of the respondents admitted that these stereotypes discussed in episode 29 are applicable to themselves. Respondent 8 asserts that episode 29 “covers a wide variety of stereotypes” which she has heard of and personally been through, while Respondent 3 claims that “the stereotypes are very real”. Additionally, both respondents appreciate the podcast hosts’ openness and willingness to discuss sensitive topics such as porn industry and sex attached to these stereotypes. These background characteristics and motives that can be identified among people growing up in a diaspora community, who experience different nuances of discrimination as well as alienation in their community, have influenced their media consumption or preference (Haridakis, 2013, p.11). Their motives are simply driven by their recognition needs that they were or are not able to access from the traditional media platforms e.g. TV, magazines and Hollywood movies. For a long time racism and patriarchal structure have marked women of color in the subordinate position, and forced them to “fit into a prescribed mold” by media producers who are mostly white and men (Lopez, 2016), but through their content, the ABG podcast manages to call attention to these issues with a sense of openness and relatability. Relatable role models and open space are themes that resemble the yearning that Philip brought up in episode 30. Notably, they intertwine with the community and therefore the Asian American identity. Exemplified by Respondent 8, who agrees with Philip that “there is a portion for Asians that don’t care or don’t know how to participate or struggle to have a really famous role model to look up to that inspires to participate”. Complying with this response, Respondent 3 articulates that “it’s very empowering to hear and instills confidence in being Asian American” since there is not a lot of public voice that approaches these topics from the perspective of Asian American women.

When asked if they feel connected in general to the topics discussed in the podcast, most responses emphasize the individual experiences and contexts in their responses:

Respondent 1: Their personal struggles in western society are similar to my own

Respondent 3: I feel connected to most of the episode discussion topics. I felt connected to the episode when they talk about ... “self help” ... I’m into self help books and this

podcast kind of has the same effect of reading a self-help book but concentrated on Asian American women in their late 20s

Respondent 7: I really enjoyed the episode about Imposter Syndrome because I believe everyone has imposter syndrome to some extent, especially myself. … I think their topics on psychological health - understanding what drives an individual and how that nurtured through how Asian women are typically raised is very important. As an Asian woman, it's very difficult to be introspective and think about why I act or react a certain way

These responses provide a sense of how their listeners are connected with them and each other because they are allowed to represent their shared interests, support and identity (Rice & Haythornthwaite, 2010, p.9). Furthermore, it confirms that the ABG podcast listeners have the ability to make a conscious choice and connect their gratification with this specific content (Ruggiero, 2000, p.26) based on their individual experiences. These responses lead to their perception of the podcast’s role in the development of Asian American representation in media. Echoing the importance of having a public voice for Asian Americans, Respondent 6 believes that “Asian American women can be portrayed in an authentic light”, and the ABG podcast “highlights the minority (women) of another minority (Asians) that most people don’t know about, and it contributes to the growth and proper representation of Asian American media”. Moreover, some respondents accentuate the importance and need for shedding light on the specificities of Asian American experience, for instance, Respondent 4 who expresses that there should be “more people from our community talking about it”, and acknowledged by Respondent 11, these are “real topics for Asians who live in the western world”. Need has been a central concept for the theory of U&G as argued by Ruggiero (2000), as it is inherent in human experience (2000, p.27). It is also culturally situated which is linked to the drives of human sources of gratification, and even though the main criticism of the theory of U&G lies on its individualism, it places great significance on social and cultural contexts that form a need (ibid). In trying to understanding why the ABG podcast listeners feel connected to these narratives, drawing upon this theory, it shows that this identified need originates from the absence of a public voice for Asian American community which is crucial to improving their

media representations. However, Respondent 3 asserts that the narrative is “too concentrated in the West Coast” but hopes that “it branches out beyond just the ABG podcast and grows into a movement that empowers Asian Americans”. Within the movement discourse, the initiative to make changes in media practice has been attempted by various media activists who seek to improve the representation of Asian Americans in media through the collective racial identity (Lopez, 2016). It applies to the reception of the ABG podcast whose intention is to extend the narrative of Asian American experience in media. Reflected in the answer by Respondent 12, the ABG podcast provides “a good role model for most Asian American young women” because it is both “accessible” and “inspirational”. Lastly, Respondent 7 adds that “the ABG podcast allows Asian women to connect with different emotions on a more day to day level”, which is presumably dependent on their content format and choices of topics. Departing from the principles of the theory of U&G, background of the podcast listeners influences their selectivity, and therefore, they have resorted to this specific type of media instead of the mainstream because of its functionalities that help them satisfy their needs (Haridakis, 2013, p.8), which is connecting to someone in public domain who represents their individual experiences and defies the norms.

7. Concluding discussion

A concluding discussion to connect the findings to the objectives of this thesis is provided in this chapter. Furthermore, this scale of research may have ruled out a lot due to its chosen approach and limitations, but the set of knowledge acquired through this thesis could be of significant value for the media and communications field. Thus, this chapter will end with my suggestions for further research on the topic of Asian American identity and experience in media.

7.1 Alternative narrative of the Asian American experience

By adopting Labov’s structural model (2009) to analyze the narrative of Asian American experience in the three selected episodes, I was enabled to identify the stories that create added meaning to the thesis. More importantly, the analysis has shown that the ABG podcast renders a type of media content that deviates from the longstanding media depictions of people of Asian descent in the United States. In contrast to the history of Asian American representation in the media which has been studied extensively in the past (Espiritu, 1997; Chow, 1998; Yuen, 2004; Shi, 2005; Fuller, 2010; Kim, 2013; Lopex, 2016; Pollard, 2017; Le & Kang, 2019; Sugino,2019), the ABG podcast depicts Asian Americans in a relatable, tangible and ordinary way, even for the audience of a different cultural background. It illustrates their aspirations, struggles, and daily routines in an approachable manner. Nonetheless, because the hosts are born in the United States and raised in Asian households, they have emulated the mindset of their immigrant parents who had to endure social, political and economic oppressions. The findings have also shown that the traditional values that have been carried over from the older generation to their children often are in conflict with the constructions of their identity, which mirrors the work by Lisa Lowe (1991). Being a part of or assimilating into the society in the United States means different social stratifications that invoke disruption of the traditions (1991, p.25). On the other hand, the new constructions of identity are reflected clearly in their content, for instance, openness (discussing sensitive topics), freedom (professional pursuits in a creative field), leadership (working as a manager), and other attributes that do not conform to cultural or stereotypical norms. More importantly, this set of multidimensional embodiments rejects the media representation of Asian Americans, specifically Asian women whose depiction has always been associated with

submissiveness, obedience and sexual objectification (Pollard, 2017). These findings have added salient values to the thesis when exploring the alternative narratives that have been produced by the ABG podcast; how they challenge the norms. However, the application of holistic content approach by Amia Lieblich, Rivka Tuval-Mashiach and Tamar Zilber (2011) has provided me with even more valuable insights into their narratives. It reveals the relatability that can engage their listeners, but it also sheds the light on the problematization of inadequate and distorted representation of Asian Americans in media. There is a connection between the deficiency in relatable Asians in media and the reluctance to participate in supporting the community, which is clearly voiced in episode 30 where the conclusion of the Asian American community being powerful but silent surfaced. This conclusion resonates with Yu Shi (2005) who argues that media plays a significant role in constructing a collective identity in a diasporic community, but having their experience neglected in the mainstream media has led to alienation (2005, p.64), and therefore, less willingness to engage in these concerns. However, this also reflects the shortcoming of having an umbrella racial identity such as Asian American presented by among others Kent Ono and Gayatri Spivak, who have criticized the hierarchy within the larger community being dominated by a certain group of its members (Lopez, 2016, p.22), and Nazli Kibria, who points out that a lot of Asian Americans do not see themselves as part of the community because of its ambiguity and tendencies for homogeneity (Kibria, 2002, p.X). There is another layer of that alienation that has neither been addressed properly by the mainstream media nor the ABG podcast.

The ambiguous definition of Asian American and tendencies for homogeneity have led to the application of intersectional framework. Drawing on Lisa Lowe’s (1991) argument regarding the wide spectrum of this racial identity which needs careful considerations because of its diverse history, the ABG podcast has potentially contributed to represent Asian Americans from one dimension. By having promoted the podcast as one for the modern day Asian American woman and implicitly depicting their target group as a homogeneous group (i.e. young, able-bodied, educated,and employed), it completely neglects the specificities and diversities in the Asian American community (Lowe, 1991, p.26). Moreover, their assumption of the community at large, specifically in episode 30 when they stated that 90 % of Asian Americans have the purchasing power, poses a risk to its immigration history

(Lowe, 1991), political identity and media activism (Lopez, 2016) which are mobilized by the collective racial identity.

7.2 Empowering, yet insufficient

Using the theory of U&G, I was able to learn more about the ABG podcast listeners and the impacts of this narrative on them. The findings have shown that the respondents who have participated in my questionnaire have resorted to this type of media and content for different purposes, which resonates with the argument by Paul Haridakis (2013). Haridakis argues that people are goal-oriented and purposive, hence, they chose certain type of media to satisfy their needs (2013, p.3). In this case, their listeners seek to have their experiences represented by someone relatable, to consume what they cannot access in the mainstream media and to connect with other people of similar backgrounds in a safe and open environment. This can be connected to the limited and degrading stereotypical representation of Asian women over the years (Espirity, 1997; Chow, 1998; Yuen, 2004), whom the ABG podcast listeners did not find relatable. I was also able to establish that relatability is significant in their choice, for example, the response by Respondent 6 who started listening to the ABG podcast because it provides her with the specific perspectives to Asian women that she wouldn’t be able to retrieve elsewhere. It is safe to say that they have applied the content to their own experiences. Furthermore, this has added valuable meaning to this thesis because it emphasizes on the importance of having a public voice and face for Asian Americans who are portrayed in an authentic light (Respondent 6). It shows that authenticity of minorities in media can contribute to their growth of representation. In a way, their listeners have found them inspiring and empowering as affirmed by Respondent 3 and Respondent 12 who have

described the ABG hosts as role models for Asian American young women. Nonetheless, the emerging dilemma in their content that has been examined from the intersectional perspective was also reflected by Respondent 12. The lack of diversity in their representation of Asian women was her reason for not longer listening to the podcast. She also questioned their use of term ABG, which originally was defined as Asian Baby Girl and is mostly present in the West Coast because it was invented by Asian women of a different background to theirs. Their continuous negligence of diversity within the Asian American community will challenge their commitment to extend the representation of Asian Americans in media.

In contrast to the previous studies that have solely been focused on mainstream media and stereotypical representations, this thesis has contributed with an insight into the attempt by the younger generation of Asian Americans to mediate their narratives through contemporary media. By adopting narrative analytical tools to examine the stories presented by the ABG podcast, this thesis has also provided a rare take on the Asian American identity and experience that is more up to date and extensive. Despite its limitations, the elements of audience research using the theory of uses and gratifications add another layer of depth to this research and help us understand the reception of such narratives as well as the development in the media landscape that has stretched beyond Hollywood and news media. Lastly, from the viewpoint of intersectionality, this thesis reveals challenges and tension that exist in the intersection of identities categories within this diverse community that even the members sometimes fail to acknowledge. The studies on representation of ethnic minorities may seem exhaustive but the need for continuity is still much valid, remarkedly during the pandemic where the Asian representation in media has been in focus, especially in the United States where xenophobia and racism are afflicting many individuals and families as a result. After all, it reflects the perception of people of Asian descent as perpetual foreigners regardless of their story (Kim, 2013, p.45) that has for decades been embedded in the United States, with or without the authentic visibility of Asian American experience. By the time for submission of this thesis, the ABG podcast has released their 6th season, shifted their direction and started capitalizing more on YouTube. All three hosts quit their fulltime job and are now focusing on expanding the podcast and business, which in a way contradicts their initial intention in giving voice for Asian American women with a 9-5 corporate job. Furthermore, the three latest episodes contain topics with an emphasis on the Asian American representation and identity, and for the first time, they invited a guest with an Indian American background. It is an interesting way to engage the listeners in following their development to say the least.

The possibility for future research on Asian American representation and media is plenty despite the amount of existing studies. One of the directions that this thesis wishes to see is towards the identity construction and formation by the younger generation. Even though they are children of immigrants, their cultural, social, political circumstances and stratifications

completely differ from their parents and this has resulted in the wide variety of content across different media platforms, including podcasts. Their societal consciousness and traditional constraints forge a separate set of knowledge as well as tension over class, gender and race that the previous studies were not able to obtain. As mentioned in the introduction, there are other identifications (Patel, 2010; Chan, 2017) that emanated to address the diverse identity categories as well as specificities within the Asian American community. The establishment of new identities demonstrates the ongoing development within this demographic in the United States that must not be discarded. In respect of sustainability, it broaches relevant questions regarding whether the traditional identity such as Asian American is still needed and coherent in other contexts, than a mere umbrella term that has tendencies to reinforce the homogeneity of its own community. Or how this racial identity can be used efficiently in order to improve the representation of Asian Americans in media, is also another important question for future research and the community members themselves. More importantly, there should be more studies conducted on the amplifying production and distribution of content by and for people of Asian descent in the United States. In moving the discussion forward, it is simply not enough to analyze and criticize the longstanding stereotypical and biased representations in mainstream media when there is an abundance of efforts on other platforms calling for an equal amount of attention. Needless to say, the ABG podcast is only the tip of the iceberg.

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9. Appendices

Appendix 1 Introduction: This questionnaire is part of a masters research project about Asian American media conducted by me at the School of Arts and Communication at Malmö University, Sweden. The aim of this project is to explore the new developments in Asian American media production, and to better understand how people are relating to this content by using the Asian Boss Girl or ABG podcast as a case study. Your answers are anonymous but you will be able to leave your contact email address if interested in receiving the questionnaire results.

*mandatory question Section 1 Your age* - Under 20 - 20-23 - 24-27 - 28-30 - Over 30 Your gender* - female - male - non-binary Section 2: your contact with the ABG podcast When did you discover the ABG podcast?* _____ How did you discover the ABG podcast?* - Instagram - Facebook - YouTube

- Google - Suggestions on a podcast platform - Word of mouth - Others Have you been to any of the ABG podcast’s public events?* - Yes - No Why did you start listening to the ABG podcast* _____ Do you still listen to the ABG podcast?* - Yes - No If Yes, why? If No, why not? _____ Section 3: Ep. 22, 29 & 30 This section is dedicated to episode 22, 29 and 30. If you have not listened to these episodes, you can skip to the next section. Select the episodes you have listened to. 1. Episode 22: Asian American Women in Media 2. Episode 29: Asian Women - Do We Fit the Stereotypes? 3. Episode 30: Pursuit of Yappiness What did you think about the discussed topics in these episodes? _____ Do you feel personally connected to any of these episodes? - Yes, I did. - No, not really. - To certain extent. If your answer is Yes or No, could you explain why? _____ Section 4: The ABG podcast If the listeners feel connected to the topics discussed by the ABG podcast and how they describe the podcast in relation to today's AA media.

Is there any topic discussed in general by the ABG podcast that you can connect or relate yourself to?* - Yes - No If yes, which one/s and in what ways do you feel connected to these topics? If No, why not?* _____ In which ways, do you think the ABG podcast plays a role in today’s Asian American media? _____ Section 5: Podcasts hosted by Asian American Do you listen to other podcasts hosted by Asian American presenters?* - Yes - No If yes, which one/s? _____ Section 6 Is there anything else you would like to share about the ABG podcast? _____ Interested in keeping in contact, and receiving the questionnaire results? Please leave your contact email address here. _____

Appendix 2

H: well I think there's also a huge lack of asian representation when we were growing up right? Like for me it was what the yellow ranger had like a helmet on half the time and I couldn't even see her face, but at the same time I remember really liking kimberly because she was the pretty white girl and I wanted to be the pretty white one but people were like ‘no you're the yellow one’. I don't wanna be the yellow one.

J: I always wanted to be the pink ranger though because i just like the color. I never liked the color yellow.

H: I think I might've been the yellow ranger a couple time but I mean at the same time looking back that's so cool that they had an asian female that was like a kick ass girl. I remember Brenda Song watching her and really liking her she was on the suite life of Zack and Cody because she has like a really round face and i have a round face. So I was like ‘round face asians are gonna make it out there’.

J: I remember Kristi Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan were in winter Olympics as ice skaters, and my parents focused on Michelle Kwan a lot because she was not only Chinese but she went to UCLA, so she was a local person. And I also i didn't ice skate but i danced when i was growing up so I felt somewhat of a relatability in that sense. but even then olympic people are not people that you find like, ‘oh I see myself in them’. So even then she was influential but it wasn't super relatable.

M: Actually michelle kwan was someone on my list too because when i was that age and she was blowing up. I didn't know how she influenced me or why she mattered but I remember when I saw her computer game for my pc I wanted to buy it because maybe she had a familiar face or something I just, I think when you're younger when you see these Asian American women, you don't know exactly why you resonate with them.

Appendix 3

J : speaking of tv, I don't know if you ladies remember Connie Chung? So, she was on 20/20 news and she was one of the lead news anchors. I watched a lot of sitcoms, so I would always see her face before an episode started or the ending of a tv show. I was always feeling in awe and inspired that this Asian woman was in the news because it felt like it was such an important role.

H: Or even just seeing an asian woman speak eloquently and not be type casted as some sort of subservient woman or sort of like a stereotypical hollywood role of asian woman.

J: And news is something that, I mean, I think in general but as a child you look and you're like thats serious stuff. She has a legitimateness to her, and it's like, for news anchors a lot of the times they were men covering more heavier issues that she did and some of the interviews than she did. So that was something that I think, kind of did influence me when I was younger.

M: I think when you were younger you really don't know how to pinpoint when you see these people on the screen, like these asian american women. You don't know how to feel. Like for me I had difficulty, like thinking about this because I didn't have an answer as to why I felt the way I felt when I saw these people on the screen. Like ‘oh I feel a certain way but I don't know what it is’, but like seeing these women on the screen because I feel like maybe I relate to them, but then as I've gotten older and YouTube has increased I kinda realized your identity really matters right?

H: And I think media changes perception just like of ourselves too right? So when we're not seeing ourselves in media even the whole model minority myth, we essentially internalize that because if we're not seeing anyone else out there that can give us some sort of diversity and view or some perception of who we're supposed to be, then maybe we do sort of reflect that as, oh we should be the quiet asian of just like the smart asian.

J: and on to your point about not being cognizant of it or realizing I think that is the biggest point is it isn't something that you are aware of that's happening if you reflect or if you kind of look at it in hindsight and realize that it's an absence thing that is it's a very kind of psychological effect.

H: And I feel like when we're younger also we just take whatever is given to us. We're not looking for like the asian influencers because we don't even know that thats a thing. If we have like a slew of asian influencers while we were growing up we'd be like ‘oh that is so cool and I want to relate to them where I want to seek them out more’, because we didn't even have that we just took the Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera.

Appendix 4

M: Looking back like if I would look at like role models or mentors in my life, the people that I look up to growing up were actually real life people in my life that were Asian American versus someone on screen because I didn't have any when I felt like I could relate to.

J: So someone tangible too

M: Exactly so do you guys have any tangible, who, you looked up to like brothers or sister or like a friend?

H: I guess if I were to look back at my life and where I am now and who, quote-unquote influenced my life it's it's it's difficult because again I can't identify anyone specific in media that I said oh my gosh she's an amazing finance business woman that I am going to emulate and whose life I want to recreate and live on my own. But if I do think back to it I would say it's my sister. She's two years older and I literally followed her footsteps from high school to college. Same college, same undergrad program. But yeah I would say that my sister is probably the biggest influencer and also as an older sister, right? You always look up to her and kind of follow whatever she does, like she wanted to play teacher when she was younger and so I play teacher like did all these things that she wanted to do.

J: How about you Mel

M: I always wished I had an older sister growing up because I wanted to steal her clothes and I just borrow my brother's oversized shirts and he’s younger. Whatever. Someone I looked up to growing up with someone in choir so I was a freshman and she was a senior her name is Lita she still to this day like my mentor in life. I think I looked up to her because I saw myself in her. She was three years older than me. She was really silly but she's also like everyone respected her because she, she’s like our section leader in choir like she like led our whole twenty-eight girls to make sure they know what they're doing but she's also did it with compassion and love and she became someone I just looked up to because I always when that

when I run into any questions in college or anything, about love or romance and family should always be someone asked for answers to. I kind of call her like the elevated version of myself like I see her I think she's a really good daughter the way she handles work is something I want to be able to handle it the way she does and it's interesting because she's not in the same industry as me. We’re actually very different in careers.

J: Do you think that her cultural background plays a role too? Like are there aspects of similar values or similar experiences that you know that she understands or that she emulates that you know you wouldn't find in another person?

M: Lita is Thai so she's also Asian American so I think we did have that similar family and cultural background. I think when you don't have someone growing up in the media to look up to, you look for people in your life. The fact that she was so relatable to me and the fact that I feel like oh my god we have similar qualities. We’re very, our personalities are actually very similar too.

Appendix 5

H: So now let's talk about stereotypes for women. For us as Asian women we typically get the stereotypes of being very obedient and soft spoken, meek, quiet. Sort of just playing along with the rules and not really disrupting the system. With that said have you ladies felt these stereotypes placed on you?

J: I, I definitely have. I think that umm... I think because I am a rather reserved and kind of quiet person, that people will kind of link that as being a woman and kind of quiet, that I'm like submissive and that I'm weak and I would say generally that's not true. I think I'm a pretty strong person if you get to know me. So that would be one you know in in very social settings and also professional settings I feel like that that happens quite often.

M: I think I'm somewhat opposite of the stereotype of women being quiet. In my household the women in my family are the head of household so they're the ones making the decision on almost everything. Being outspoken I think a lot of people will assume that I'm very controlling. I'm a planner and like to have things done a certain way. The fact that I like to take a lead on certain things, men are really turned off by that. And they want to be like why can I just take care of you? Why don't you just relinquish control? But for me it's like not really about that. It's just like the fact that in my household like we're the ones having a say.

Appendix 6

J: So another topic that people might judge us based off or judge anyone based off of is your profession. First of all maybe we can remind our listeners what profession we’re in and then what are the general stereotypes associated with your job. So Mel why don’t you start us off

M: Okay, so for those of you guys you don't know I am a continuity was for social media four of women's fashion site and I think the basic judgement I get right away is that your job is really easy. You get you get to be on Instagram all day and Facebook it's so simple and that my profession lacks depth and people in my profession are kind of, quote-unquote dumb. I actually don't think that's right at all because working this, working in this career now realizing there's so much work that goes into social media. And I mean the fact that people assume that there's that much work that gets involved. We actually don't get as much support needed for this for this department and so I feel like a like a lot of people on my team there's only two of us are wearing so many different hats just to balance this department out.

J: Mmm.

M: And for social media like what we do also is that we report every week about how much money we make to like my VP of marketing and that's another thing that people don't realize like we actually to do a lot of reporting with our roles and using that report in those numbers to really figure out and like on the creative side what to do for Instagram and Facebook and youtube and whatnot.

J: So there's actually quite an analytical component to your job that people don't think about.

M: Yeah. And it's just like even for me like being a content producer I have to produce photo shoots. So my company we actually have a studio team that executes all the photo shoots for editorial and our website. For social media I don't have that team. I have just myself doing all that stuff. I do get support from them but I don't think people are aware that like producing a photo shoot takes a lot of time and work and there's a lot of roles involved. I think the fact that I don't have those dozen roles on my team to do that, it is a lot more work than people

expect and social media doesn't sleep, I'm online almost all the time, and I had, when something launches our partnership is launching I have to be awake and ready to go.

J: And what about being in the fashion industry as well, what do you, do you feel like you people kind of like have certain perceptions of, of what it is work for a fashion brand?

M: Yeah I think people think it's really easy and like, oh fashion’s just about looking good and what not but there's a lot of things and within my company that goes into producing or like producing really good clothing every season it's just like we have a buying team member research team we have trend forecasting all the stuff they consume all the fashion because, and if you think about it it's like when Devil Wears Prada, like fashion isn't just like, you select something from a fashion bin or like a Walmart or Target bin, but then the reality of this decision of what you're wearing, it comes from someone higher

J: So there is a lot of research there's a lot of strategy there's a lot of pattern creating and stuff like that.

M: I like the idea. And there's a lot of competitors that involves you know you guys all shop at forever 21, you know, fashion Nova like urban outfitters and it’s like how do you compete against all these other different brands out there.

H: Dang. But I have to say like working in social media and my job does help me do a good job with ABG.

M: I think you're also very very organized and I think it is because your job does ask a lot of you, a lot from you when you wear many hats at work so that does help a lot with the ABG stuff too.

Appendix 7

J: So when you go out you're meeting people and we talk about you know like maybe what city you grew up in, there's often times a way that people will identify you based on that so have you ladies gone out and had that experience?

M: For me it's like I think I take it as a compliment like when I tell people I'm actually originally from the bay area, they’re like oh I knew you're from the bay area you’re so chill I'm like yeah I am I'm from the bay. I take a lot of pride coming from the bay area because I feel like the stereotype with the girls from the bay area they're like more relaxed, chill, and don't care so much about like materialistic things so much yeah I'm from the bay.

J: How about you Helen?

H: So I’m from Boston I think it depends on who I ask. So anyone from the west coast if I bring up that I'm from Boston, there's a clear like divide because more like sports. Yeah so I mean I've had someone that I first met before I said I'm from Boston and then his first response was Boston can eat a bag of dicks.

M: Whoa whoa okay yeah you too yeah.

H: Since then I still remember that person saying that but I think in general Boston stereotypes I think people here think Boston's racist and they all think that I should have a Boston accent so a lot of people are surprised that I don't. There is a very small population of people in Boston that have the accent in Southie which is like a very contained, like very white area so not a lot of people actually have the accent. And in terms of racism I didn't really feel that much growing up because Boston’s also a very large college town, right? So there's a lot of diversity in terms like food, in terms of people, so I think I was more around like that city area where the colleges are so I never really felt a lot of racism there. How about you Janet?

J: So I grew up in Orange County and for the longest time I used to avoid saying Orange County because you guys know the show right?

H: Oh the OC?

J: So for a while I would say I'm from south of Irvine and I find that especially when I'm like meeting Asian American people, they know Irvine but they have a different idea of Orange County. I often get type cast as being like, white washed or that you know you're a valley girl and that's a pretty loaded topic but I will ... because of where I grew up. Yes I maybe have some of those qualities or some of that way of thinking but also when I was in the bay area of people based on the way I talk they said you have an LA accent and I never knew there was such a thing that I guess it's kind of like because I say like a lot.

H: A lot of people say like though. That’s more of like a millennial accent

J: But there is but there is definitely like. They're like, if you talk in that way people assume that you are a little bit more of an air head, like you didn’t have substance.

Appendix 8

M: I thought people were offended because some people actually value that safe route I think for other people when they do they value other things like you know exploring passions and like putting efforts and other activities like that series was for them to explore that while other people it's like if you don't value that that's fine like we're not saying there's anything wrong with that but then that's you.

P: Yeah and I think that's the thing like I just wanted to make something that just at least make you think about making that choice and my character when he realizes that oh my gosh there's been so many things that happen in my life that I just kind of went along with that I didn't realize happened just because I've either been complacent or because I'm Asian and just things happen to me and I just didn't question it. Yeah if if people watch it was like oh yes like this doesn't apply to me, that's fine. You can still watch the show that you don't fully relate to just, you can select like the characters, or like the topics but then for the people that see themselves in it and that and they're like oh my gosh I do feel uncomfortable why do I feel comfortable watching this, you know? That's what I wanted to do. And I think it's also because there's such a huge population of Asian Americans that I do think, because of us growing up in immigrant families, did, are living right now very inactive or you know not not proactive or just complacent that I'm like I want to say like we're a powerful group if we all kind of wake up and participate in the community. You don't, I'm not telling everyone to go quit their jobs and go be a starving painter you know artist but it's like hey are you at least conscious about what's happening in your community when politics and entertainment you know in education with all this stuff, it’s like a lot of Asians just don't care. M: Yeah.

P: That's what it comes down to.

J: For immigrant families it makes sense that your parents were on this like single focus mode of just surviving. So obviously that translates to the children and I think it's like you know now that you are second or third generation here you are more established and you should

have more freedom and availability to think outside the box. But the default setting is for them to still be in that like survival mode right?

P: Right right. I think there is a general yearning from our community of wanting to care but the problem is, is that in order for your culture to evolve, you have to have kind of like leaders or products to be like milestones or checkpoints or inspiration right? And I feel like Asian people just don't have a lot of those things to latch on to say yes this is the next level. It literally happens like once every few years that we get Lin-sanity in 2012 you know and then and then six years later we have crazy rich Asians and then in between okay there's some YouTubers or there’s and there's someone on TV or there's a K-pop group that you like. We are so hungry and thirsty to try to find things that we're excited about that we just latched on to everything and we just need more of this stuff. Which is why actually I think that this podcast is so amazing and why it's growing and and finding success is because there's a lot of girls you know that had been wanting someone to make this. They've noticed that this is missing with or or it’s one of those things where they never knew that they were missing it and then now that it's here they can be like this is what I need.

H: Yeah and I mean I can say also for me like for us three right we we didn't have anyone to really look up to in terms of, in entertainment that also work nine to five and provided a voice for people like us.

P: Well like you said it’s because they're in entertainment so they're not gonna be in a nine to five.

H: Exactly. So I think we're at a very interesting time right now where maybe even like ninety percent of the people are yappies within the Asian American community because a lot of us are still children of immigrants right and so we're still holding on to those values of our parents to have like safe traditional jobs and to be secured to take care of our family because of how hard it was for them to come over here. So I think a lot of us are still in that mindset but we're still a very like silenced community in that our voices are are coming from the ten percent that are in entertainment. Maybe even less than that but that are coming from entertainment and their stories are very different from everyone.

P: It’s not reflective of the ninety percent yeah. So that's why it's so important for people that are in the ninety percent that maybe they fell into that ninety percent by default, right? But deep down they actually do have the blueprint for something more and that's really what the series is about it's like Hey like maybe you were supposed to be more for your community. And not even like on a grand scale like yeah go be a movie star actor but maybe just even in your local community to help some organization or something, right?

H: And if you look at like the number of people on a college application, right? So many Asian people are like the presidents of their, you know, student associations or organizations but then like where does that leadership fall into after college, right? It was just to get into the school.

P: There’s like a lot of unharnessed power or talent and passion that I think just because, you know what it is? Maybe like when you enter the quote unquote real world you as a minority or person of color you realize how much things are stacked against you.

H: Yeah.

P: And that you just kinda have to play the game, right? But when you're in college and you have an organization this is cut out for you then yeah I'm going to be a leader here I'm gonna be a dancer here I'm going to make flyers here because you have a system in a network where you can flourish, right?

Appendix 9

P: Yeah I mean when Wong Fu first started you know it was definitely I wouldn’t say easier but it was just like there's less noise. And there's less expectation of what you're supposed to do. But at the same time there's less promise of success so it was more risky also in that sense like we were kind of going into the abyss. We had no idea where it's going. Now because it's not a mystery now there is expectation you need to be the success. We need these numbers you, like, you have to make this amount of money is more of a process or a process but that means that is if there's a higher barrier for entry now and so now it's just as hard to start a YouTube channel as it is to go to Hollywood. So Asians have just reverted back to the time before you two was even invented and Asians are just not going to go after entertainment, you know? That gets into a whole different topic of just like you know, the state of Asian Americans in media like I don't know if that's what really, what you guys want to talk about. I'm curious actually like because you guys have answers. Do you guys like, I actually think you guys are yappies? What's your interpretation?

J: Well I thought it was interesting that we talked about, I think most people tag on to the career in defining a yappie but then we also talked about how in in your series Andrew it's also about his social bubble and it's everything. So I would say just solely focused on career, right now I feel like my lifestyle does kind of typify me as a yappie. I started out post college in the yappie job or yappie lifestyle and then I kind of did like this detour and I had like a mass.

P: You went to Kenya.

J: I went to Kenya I went to Miami I went to New York. I tried to go into a creative industry of advertising and actually learned that advertising is a pretty secure industry so Asian people who might think like being a designer or going into advertising is like being a starving artist, it's not. There's a lot of money in there.

P: Wait, does anyone think going in to advertising is not lucrative?

J: When I told my parents, like so I started out working out like a in a tax consultancy.

P: Yes.

J: They understand what that is. So to say advertising, they were like literally like I don't know I don't know what that is like do you, are you, like is it

H: So you went from advertising to Chinese acupuncture

J: So needless to say I had like a good maybe four to five years of just like trying a bunch of different stuff and kind of rounded back out to a lifestyle that someone could define as a Yappie lifestyle. But being a yappie is not good, it's not bad. Being anything is not good or not bad. It's just promoting people to be aware of what you are. So to make sure that that is a lifestyle that you’ve actively chosen, right? So for me I feel like out of college I fell into that. I do feel like I made an active decision I just kind of did I check the boxes and I ended up there and I was like where am I don't like this but then I ended up back in a place that is very similar to that but now it was an active decision that I chose to come back here.

P: Right yeah.

J: So yeah maybe for some people you don't even need to go explore. Maybe you stay where you are and you're doing what you're doing, but you just ask yourself is this where I want to be?

P: So I think you hit it the right there. It's about awareness of your place in, in how it relates to other people and society and also your place in your just own life and if you've accepted that, if you are happy with that, right? So when people ask me, do I think I’m a yappie? I'll say yeah actually I have yappie tendencies. I'll say this. I have yappie tendencies.

Appendix 10

M: I don't know if I’m a yappie completely because I work in a creative space, right? So it's like, am I considered a yappie? Part of me says yes because I work the typical nine to five job. But at the same time my job is a part of the STEM (Science Technology Engineering Math) right?

J: But it's still you chose that job because it provides you security and stability, right? M: Yeah I guess why my definition of Yappie can vary, is my career path is very opposite of you Janet. Like when I first started working I went to freelance right away. I pursued my passion and I didn't make any money. And you know, shortly after that I realized I needed to be stable, you know? And so I think I guess stability is a core part of being a yappie and that's why we're, enter my nine to five job. But I wasn't satisfied my nine to five job, which is you know, why we're doing this podcast now.

J: But the fact that you're questioning that, right? Means that it's like, to your term, the woke yappie. So you've opted into this lifestyle but you’re aware of maybe what part of it is not fulfilling.

P: If someone told me like, like I'm an actor, I'm a writer, I would be like, okay you're not a yappie. Like there are definitely characteristics that I would not, it should be the same thing right? So I guess it is occupationally dependent in some ways? But I guess that maybe that's just like the surface of this. On the surface level, yes the yappie is these things and typically it is like the occupational stuff but I think that you can be a little bit of both. You can find, like I said I relate to being a Yappie. I have yappie tendencies but then my my profession is completely not.

H: Mhmm. So maybe it's because you are all financially stable, right?

P: I guess it all comes down to money you guys [laughing]