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Ernest Martin Hopkins ʻ01 President, Emeritus

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Ernest Martin Hopkins ʻ01 President, Emeritus An interview conducted by Edward Connery Lathem ʻ51 Hanover, NH February 21- March 14, 1958 Reels 1-9 Rauner Special Collections Library Dartmouth College Hanover, NH Ernest Martin Hopkins Interview Reel #1 Hopkins: I'm very apologetic for being late, but every time I have a definite appointment, I get hung up on the telephone. Watson: But I got hung up in a different way. Just as I was getting in my car, my trousers got caught on a piece of broken metal at the back of the car. Professor Sadler ran into it yesterday – and ripped my trouser leg right down so I had to rush back and change my pants. Hopkins: I'm sorry for the cause, but I'm kind of glad you were delayed. This was an interesting telephone conversation. It was with a fellow named Gordon who is the head of the company that made the silver bowl and he just wanted some assurance it was all right and so forth. He's a very, very attractive fellow, but I have just barely met him though. I donʼt know him well at all. Childs: It looked like a beautiful bowl. I trust it's as beautiful as it looked there. Is it? It's a perfect reproduction, isnʼt it? Hopkins: Just a perfect reproduction. It is very beautiful, very beautiful. Childs: I told you ahead of time I wasn't going to get to your dinner. But I did. I was so glad… so thrilled by it. It was wonderful. Hopkins: It was quite a night. Watson: By the way, Hop, wasn't there a replica of the bowl used at the president's house when you were there? Hopkins: Yeah, I was so afraid something would happen… just one of these vague imaginings that I got authority from the Trustees to have a replica made, we used, always used, the replica instead of the original. Watson: Oh, yes. Hopkins: And the… and I suppose it's over to the president's house now. Childs: That didnʼt belong to you… was it a present from the college? Hopkins: That was from the college, yes. 2 Ernest Martin Hopkins Interview Watson: Like the crown jewels. Lathem: Did you not have made during your administration a smaller replica for Mr. Tuck? Hopkins: I think we made a large-size replica for him. I suppose the Germans got that. Lathem: No, it's in the New Hampshire Historical Society. Hopkins: Oh, is it. Well I'm glad to hear that. Lathem: There was so much of it that he wanted to preserve very carefully. Hopkins: Oh, they got his files. Gracious, I wish I had been a little more insistent. He had a… I was thinking of it Lincoln's birthday… he had a letter from Lincoln to his father, Amos Tuck, asking him whether he really thought he should run for the presidency or not. Then there was an interval which wasnʼt covered by correspondence in which Lincoln came up to Exeter and had a long visit with Amos Tuck, and then the two letters that I wanted to get awfully for the college. Tuck, you see, Amos Tuck is a practical politician, didn't vote for Lincoln on the first ballot, that is he waited to lead the landslide and didn't vote until the third, and apparently Lincoln was irritated by it, didn't understand it because this was a handwritten note and saying something to the effect while I donʼt understand the tactics of the convention, I did expect your support from the beginning. And then two or three days later, a letter of apology saying that he did understand it. Well, this was a package of letters, and I begged him to let me bring them back, and he said, well, he said they're really the most precious things I've got and you'll have them eventually, and so forth. Lathem: That's a shame. Hopkins: Yeah, the Germans evidently got them. I think one of the most tragic afternoons I ever spent was three years ago when I went over to join Whit in Paris, and Whit says is there anything particular you want to stick around Paris for, and I said yeah, I want to stick around one day because I want to go out and see Mal Maison and well, everything was tawdry there. The manicured lawns had gone 3 Ernest Martin Hopkins Interview up to weeds, the glass in the hothouses was all broken, the doors in the house were hanging by one hinge and… Lathem: A heart-rending scene that must have been for you. Hopkins: Yes, I wish I had never gone out there, I mean, I hate to have that memory of it. Lathem: I thought this afternoon we might chat a little bit about Dr Tucker in the interest of gathering some of your three reminiscences of him to help Mr. Leavens with his work and also just for the record, and it would seem the best way of beginning is at the beginning and perhaps we could think first in terms of your earliest encounters with him coming to Hanover Plain. Hopkins: My earliest encounters with him were because of Watt. Watson: I was just going to ask you that, Hop. Hopkins: As a matter of fact, I wonder, before I say anything else, what relationship was D.B. Rich to you? Watson: He was my cousin. Hopkins: He was your cousin. Watson: My own cousin. Hopkins: The circumstances of this was the faculty had just put in a very drastic anti-hazing law. D.B. Rich, who was a class ahead of me, that is, he was a junior while Wattie was a freshman, I think that's right, he came around and he said I've got a cousin in the freshman class and he says I think he's headed towards being altogether too fresh. He says I don't want him beaten up or anything but I'd like to have a little attention given to him. So, Howard Hall, who was my roommate, and I went over to give the due attention, at which point "Clothespins" Richardson walked in on us, and I was before the administration committee for three successive weeks on it, trying to persuade them that we hadnʼt insured the boys seriously. Watson: You hadn't. I enjoyed it. Hopkins: I know you did. That's what irritated me about it. And, actually, I wonder sometimes if perhaps that wasn't the beginning of my 4 Ernest Martin Hopkins Interview career, because Dr. Tucker got his attention fastened on me early in my freshman year. And that was… no, I never knew and I don't know now how serious it was… they were putting up an awfully good bluff that it was serious anyway, and asked me if I didn't know the faculty rules, didn't I know this, that, and the other thing, and I kept insisting that I didn't think we'd harmed Wattie at all or that we'd broken the rules very seriously. Watson: And didn't I understand that Dr. Tucker was much impressed by your argument? Hopkins: Thatʼs right. Lathem: Did he ever refer to this in later years? I suppose he must have. Hopkins: He never referred to it at all in later years. As a matter of fact, I was before the administration committee so often anyway… Watson: You remember you were caught when you were sticking my head into a pail f water. Hopkins: Yeah, that was exactly right. Watson: And Professor Emerson, the dean, walked in. And I remember his words. They sank into my heart. He said, "I have never seen such indignity visited upon any human being.” [inaudible] Hopkins: I spent hours attempting to explain that it wasn't even an indignity, but I didn't get anywhere. Actually, to finish the story, I came to understand later that Dr. Tucker wasn't very much impressed anytime during this. He had a habit which I didn't recognize until years later, but when I got to traveling with him. When he was very much amused, heʼd suck in his upper lip and bite his moustache. Yeah, like that. It all came in a flashback. I can see him sitting in those meetings when they were making these vehement denunciations of my brutalities and sadistic qualities and didnʼt so much as to say well, just what did you intend to do? Well, that opened up a large range, you know, and I had to improvise at that point because we hadn't any idea what we intended to do, we were just extemporizing as we went along. Watson: I think my… you see, your interest in college, although you were a fraternity brother of mine in two fraternities, your interests were so different from mine that I had almost no contact with you until we 5 Ernest Martin Hopkins Interview were both actors in a wretched play called "Hunting for Hawkins." I was a very disconsolate boy, and you were a magnificent butler, I remember. Hopkins: Yeah, shifted from a maid. They didn't think I was enough of a [inaudible]. And you can continue on to say our interests are still divergent because there was a tremendous difference between our acting ability. Watson: Well, I remember one episode. We … the players, they then called it the Dramatic Club, went to Manchester, I think it was, to give a performance, and right in the middle of the performance, I was locked into a telephone booth on the stage and left alone, and at that moment the booth, which wasn't very secure, fell over and left me standing with a very miserable look on my face in the middle of the stage to the great delight of the audience.
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