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Commission of Inquiry Into State Capture Held at Parktown

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Commission of Inquiry Into State Capture Held at Parktown COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO STATE CAPTURE HELD AT PARKTOWN, JOHANNESBURG 10 26 JULY 2019 DAY 141 20 26 JULY 2019 – DAY 141 PROCEEDINGS ON 26 JULY 2019 CHAIRPERSON: Good morning Ms Gcabashe. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Good morning. CHAIRPERSON: Good morning everybody. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Good morning DCJ. CHAIRPERSON: I apologise that we are starting ten minutes late but let us – let us – let us proceed. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Thank you Sir. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 10 ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Mr Basson we are simply continuing to lead your evidence that you started presenting yesterday. MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Understood. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: You… CHAIRPERSON: I am sorry let me just confirm for the record that the new interpreter has been sworn in. So – but Ms Gcabashe it looks like my staff did not give me the file that has got Mr Basson’s statement because I believe it is a smaller file. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: The very small one it is indeed. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. Ja. Okay I have got it now. We can proceed 20 thank you. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Thank you – thank you Chairman. CHAIRPERSON: I think we will have to start afresh. In other words in terms of the evidence of Mr Basson. I believe we should rather start afresh and not continue from where we left off yesterday because there is – there was a challenge with the interpreter. We do not want a Page 2 of 150 26 JULY 2019 – DAY 141 situation where part of Mr Basson’s evidence may be said to be tainted because the interpreter was not doing a good job. So I think let us start afresh. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: We will do that Chairman. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. So you understand that Mr Basson? I think the interpreter might not have been paying attention to what I was saying because she thought I was just speaking to counsel only. Did you understand what I said Ms Interpreter? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Understood Chair. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Mr Basson I am actually going to start right at the beginning and ask you to identify the name on page 1 of your statement? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Willie Basson. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Then Mr Basson if you could go to page 6 of our statement. There under the – or rather above the word deponent there is a signature – whose signature is that? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: My signature Chair. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: On what date and at what place did you 20 depose to this affidavit? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: The 26 June, Vrede. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: And you are familiar with the contents of this document? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: I am. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Thank you. Mr Basson where do you live? Page 3 of 150 26 JULY 2019 – DAY 141 MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: In Church Street in Vrede. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Do you have a home anywhere else? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: I have a few. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: You have a home down the road in Warden? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Correct. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Where do you – are you employed? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: I am. I am an owner of a 10 business. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: What is the nature of the business that you conduct? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: It is earth moving equipment, transport, liquor stores, shops, I have many businesses. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: In Vrede what business do you own? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Vrede tractors – earth moving business. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Yes I am looking at paragraph 5 of your statement. What do you do with this earth moving equipment? 20 MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: I build roads, dams and I also rent it out. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: You are also a farmer? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Correct. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: And you know quite a few farmers in the local area of Vrede? Page 4 of 150 26 JULY 2019 – DAY 141 MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: That is correct Chair. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Do you by any chance know any of the four commercial farmers who had a farm where the current Vrede Dairy Farm is located on that land? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: I do know them. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Would you know who the occupant of the portion on which the Vrede Dairy Farm currently operates from? Who the occupant of that farm was before Estina took it over? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: It was Krynaauwslust 10 Farmer – Farming. It was the Greyling brothers. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Who was the immediate past tenant of the property? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Greyling. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: And who originally owned that property? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: The municipality. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Yes. Were any of those four commercial farmers [intervention]. CHAIRPERSON: I am sorry Ms Gcabashe I am not sure whether Mr Basson understood your question. I think your question was who was 20 the immediate tenant? Who was the tenant immediately before the Vrede Dairy Farm started in that land and I think the answer was the municipality. I think the understanding is that the municipality was the owner rather than the tenant. Do you want to interpret that Ms Interpreter? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Greyling Chair. Page 5 of 150 26 JULY 2019 – DAY 141 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Yes thank you. Then my next question was simply the four commercial farmers who occupied that farm did they dabble in dairy farming or some other form of farming? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: It was not a dairy farm. They farmed in red meat cattle, sheep and then it was farming with regards to maize etcetera. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Yes. What about you Mr Basson? Are you a dairy farmer? 10 MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: No I am not a dairy farmer. My farming is with regards to red meat cattle. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Yes. Let us move onto our next aspect which is your association with Estina. How did you come to have contact with Estina? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: The contractor – the earlier contractor asked them too much, they overcharged them so they heard about me. They requested me to go there and do work for them. Enlarging dam, building a road and I was there up until they left. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Yes. When did you start rendering 20 services at the Vrede Dairy Farm? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Chairperson it was around about 2012 to the beginning of 2013. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Did you know any of those contractors who had been overcharging the management at Estina? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: No not really. Page 6 of 150 26 JULY 2019 – DAY 141 ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: They were not from the locality? Not from Vrede, Memel, Warden? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: No. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Do you know where they were from? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Ermelo, Nelspruit and I also think from Standerton. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: So when you took over after they left were there any other contractors at the Vrede Dairy Farm? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Correct it was Koos 10 Eksteen he is actually an engineer. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Had Koos Eksteen been working with those contractors whose services were terminated? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: I am not sure but I worked with him the whole time. I also invoiced him not Estina. He obtained the work from Estina. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Oh can we then understand this clearly. Did Estina contract with you directly or did Estina contract with you through Koos Eksteen’s company? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Estina contracted me 20 directly but Koos Eksteen had other work which they contracted him in. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: So the work that Koos Eksteen was doing was at the farm? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Correct. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Was Koos Eksteen a local chap? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: No from Pretoria. Page 7 of 150 26 JULY 2019 – DAY 141 ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: And how long did he remain on contract at the farm? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: Easily eight to twelve months. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: You say you worked closely with him. What work did the two of you do together? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: I did the earth moving part. I filled it up. He measured it out. You call it dumpy level so he showed us what to do there. 10 ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Okay. Who was the overall manager at the farm at the time you and Koos were working together? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: C P Paras. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Would that be Mr Chandrama Prasad also known as CP in the area? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: That is correct Chairperson. ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Did Mr Prasad have a house in town or did he live on the farm? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: He had a home in town. 20 ADV LEAH GCABASHE SC: Yes. So your evidence is that really from about late 2012 to 2013 your equipment was hired to do work on the farm? MR WILLEM BASSON [through interpreter]: That is correct but it was much longer up until the end Estina rented machinery from me.
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