Thursday Volume 565 27 June 2013 No. 25

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 27 June 2013

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2013 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 443 27 JUNE 2013 444

Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): It has been House of Commons revealed that the maritime rescue co-ordination centre in Belfast has been staffed below risk level on 191 shifts Thursday 27 June 2013 this year alone. Does the Minister find that acceptable, and, if he does not, what is he doing about it?

The House met at half-past Nine o’clock Mr McLoughlin: It is vital that we have cover, and if there is low availability pairing arrangements ensure that others take over that cover. We will not demur from PRAYERS our responsibility.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Bus Services

Q2. Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) Oral Answers to Questions (Lab): What his policy is on quality contracts for bus services. [161765]

TRANSPORT The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker): The regulatory framework around The Secretary of State was asked— quality contract schemes is the one we inherited from the previous Administration and there are no plans to Coastal Safety change it. The decision to pursue a quality contract scheme remains for the local transport authority to Q1. Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): What steps his take, if it can satisfy itself that the scheme is in the Department is taking to improve coastal safety. [161764] public interest.

The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick Mr Brown: The Minister will know that up until now McLoughlin): The Department works closely with many most provincial passenger transport authorities have organisations to promote safety around our coast. preferred the partnership route and, to my knowledge, Last year we saw an increase in accidents around this at least two—Tyne and Wear and West Yorkshire—are time of year, and, while I want to encourage everyone exploring whether to go the quality contract route to enjoy our beautiful coast this summer, I want them to instead, not least because of all the financial pressures stay safe and to follow the advice of organisations such that are now upon them. What advice does he have for as the coastguard, the RNLI, the National Water Safety the two authorities? Forum and the Royal Yachting Association so that they enjoy their time around the coastline. Norman Baker: My advice is to consider what is best in the public interest for their constituents, to examine Mark Menzies: Over the summer months, millions of the options available in legislation, to pursue partnership tourists will flock to tourist resorts such as Lytham working with bus operators and to try to secure the best St. Annes and the Fylde coast. Will my right hon. Friend possible outcome for the bus passenger. assure the House that all will be done to keep our inshore waters as safe as possible to encourage more 15. [161779] Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) people to holiday here in the UK? (Con): Some 45 per cent. of those travelling on the excellent bus services in North Yorkshire take advantage Mr McLoughlin: My hon. Friend is right that many of concessionary fares. Will the Minister look kindly on constituents will flock to the coast, including the coastline allowing bus companies similar commercial freedom in his constituency and many others around the UK. to that enjoyed by the railway companies that provide Our coastline is fantastic, attractive and beautiful, but it concessionary passes? is also dangerous and people should not take risks or underestimate it. Norman Baker: The arrangements for train and for bus are slightly different in the sense that the railway Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): arrangements for the discount card were set in place at Amphibious vessels such as the Duckmarine that recently privatisation and are funded by the train operating sank in Liverpool appear to have at least three regulators: companies, whereas the bus arrangements are of course VOSA and the traffic commissioners; the Maritime and funded from the public purse. But if she has particular Coastguard Agency; and the Driving Standards Agency. concerns about the operation of the travel concessionary Will the Secretary of State ask the accident investigators scheme in her area, I will be very happy to meet her and to consider whether this split regulation and split talk about them. responsibility is the best way to guarantee public safety? Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab): Mr McLoughlin: Of course we are all very concerned When the Minister sat on the Bill Committee for the about the incident that happened in Liverpool and I will Local Transport Act 2008, he was not satisfied with talk to the inspectorate about it. A report is being what the Government were then proposing because he prepared by the marine accident investigation branch. I knew, as do other hon. Members, that the current will want to see what that says and I shall take the point deregulated system allows bus companies to game the made by the hon. Lady as Chair of the Select Committee. public purse to the detriment of the travelling public. 445 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 446

Can he not persuade his hard-hearted Tory colleagues Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): In theory, to help authorities that want to re-regulate the system quality contracts and quality partnerships should make to the benefit of the travelling public? integrated ticketing—and, therefore, smartcard ticketing— easier to manage. We are still not seeing enough smartcard Norman Baker: As far as the landscape is concerned, use outside London—specifically in Merseyside, where following the recommendations of the Competition the project is long overdue. Will the Minister say specifically Commission, we have of course taken steps to improve what he and his Department have done to empower it. The options available under the Local Transport integrated transport authorities to get smartcards available Act—the hon. Gentleman and I sat on the Public Bill for passengers? Committee—are still available. I encourage local authorities to explore the best possible options. What we are seeing Norman Baker: As a matter of fact, we have provided across the country in places such as Brighton, for example, significant sums of money to ITAs to take forward is a good arrangement between local authorities and smart ticketing. We are also taking forward multi-operator bus companies, which is driving up passenger numbers. ticketing guidance, in accordance with the Competition Commission’s recommendations, and I have made it Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): plain to bus companies that we want to see progress on The Minister will well remember the grilling that he and that matter. Only this week, I held a two-hour meeting I got before the inaugural meeting of the Youth Select with key operators in the bus and train world to talk Committee about a year ago on the whole anomaly of about smart ticketing and to make sure we are making young people often qualifying for full adult fares at the progress, which indeed we are, in both modes of transport. age of 16 and of a postcode lottery in certain parts of the country. A year on, with the YouthSelect Committee Dangerous Driving moving on to a new study next week, will the Minister update us on what progress has been made on getting fairer fares for young people? 3. Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con): What steps he is taking to reduce incidents of dangerous driving. [161766] Norman Baker: I do remember that particular Select Committee engagement, and I am sorry that my hon. Friend is no longer in his post to carry on the work he The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport was doing. Since then, we have talked to the bus companies (Stephen Hammond): We are taking forward the measures at the Department for Transport and they have produced set out in the strategic framework for road safety. In this new website, which is useful for identifying offers 2012, a new offence of causing serious injury by dangerous and the availability of transport for young people. In driving came into force. We are also creating a new addition, I have had discussions with the Minister for drug-driving offence and will consult on the limits Schools about the situation for young people, and we shortly. We have also consulted on changes to make the are considering what further action, if any, we can take. enforcement of drink-driving laws more effective. Additionally, we intend to publish a Green Paper on young drivers later this year. Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): Lancashire county council is considering quality bus contracts. Will the Minister and his Department be as supportive as possible Karl McCartney: My hon. Friend will be aware that towards those authorities that wish to move towards in certain areas of our country there are drivers who quality bus contracts, providing support where necessary? have never taken a driving test. Has his Department investigated the potential benefits of requiring drivers to take a test every five or 10 years in order to reduce Norman Baker: We are always happy to engage with such incidents and make our roads safer by removing local authorities and to give them advice in so far as those who drive illegally? they request it. Obviously, when local authorities request factual information from the Department, we will be happy to supply it. Stephen Hammond: The Department has not investigated the potential benefits of that. We do not regard it as a Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): The quality of bus priority, partly because if those people are driving illegally, travel between Newcastle, Hexham and Carlisle has they are unlikely to take the test. However, I can reassure suffered terribly due to the mismanagement of Arriva. my hon. Friend that we take illegal driving very seriously, Specifically, many of my constituents encounter great and that the automatic number plate recognition system problems with the service being perpetually late or even is helping us to crack down on illegal drivers. buses running out of fuel. Will the Minister reassure my constituents that the next time he meets Arriva, he will John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): Does urge it to improve the quality of this service? the Minister now regret the axing of the targets on deaths and serious accidents on the roads, particularly Norman Baker: I am always keen to improve the in the light of the first increases in both categories for quality of bus services for passengers. The satisfaction more than 10 years? level of bus travel as measured by the independent Passenger Focus is 84%, and in Tyne and Wear, for Stephen Hammond: I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman example, it is 87%. If the hon. Gentleman is concerned is out of touch. If he looks at the 2012 figures published about particular issues in his local area, I would be this morning, he will see that deaths and serious injuries happy to pursue them with him and the relevant bus have reverted to the trend we had expected, and have company. fallen. 447 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 448

Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): When will the Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): Minister’s Department implement part 6 of the Traffic Given that on a recent visit to Wolverhampton the Management Act 2004 to prevent dangerous driving Transport Secretary described our train station as “awful”, and to allow the prosecution of those who drive in cycle and given that the Department for Transport contributes lanes and commit other moving traffic offences? to the regional growth fund, will the Minister commit himself to supporting the bid to the regional growth Stephen Hammond: My hon. Friend will be pleased fund by Wolverhampton city council and a consortium to hear that we are having cross-departmental discussions to rebuild the station and regenerate the surrounding on the matter. No decision has been taken yet, but I area? hope we will come to a conclusion in the near future. Mr Burns: The hon. Lady is absolutely right: my right Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab): When hon. Friend the Transport Secretary did visit the station, the Government announced trials of 80 mph limits on and he had a very jolly visit. I can also reassure her that our motorways, there was dismay at the prospect of a considerable amount of investment is being made in higher emissions, higher costs for drivers and collisions the area, but the specific bid proposals she mentions at higher speeds. The Minister announced in a recent will be fully considered and decisions will flow from speech that the trials were still on track, whereas the that in due course. Secretary of State suggested in a press interview last Sunday that they were off the table. If there is one thing Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): we need in road safety, it is clarity. Will the Minister tell When the Minister discusses the refurbishment of stations, us whether the Government are still pressing ahead will he look closely at accessibility for passengers with with such a dangerous policy? poor mobility, especially wheelchair users? Will he also take that a step further and speak with some of the train operating companies about the dismal access for Stephen Hammond: The Government made an initial some wheelchair users when trying to get on trains? assessment of the possibility of introducing trials of 80 mph limits, but it is not a priority. What is a priority for this Government is the transformational investment Mr Burns: The hon. Gentleman raises a very important that is delivering growth and road safety. Yesterday’s point. It is crucial that access for those with restricted announcement by the Chancellor will give us the means mobility is improved. That is why, as he will be aware, to deliver that transformational change. there is the Access for All scheme, with investment of more than £300 million for the whole programme, and with an additional £100 million to be made available for Railway Stations the next control period. We are as anxious as he is to ensure that there are improvements for such people. 4. Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): What progress he is making on funding the refurbishment of railway stations. Motorists: Support [161767] Q5. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): What steps he is The Minister of State, Department for Transport taking to support motorists; and if he will make a (Mr Simon Burns): In the past two years, more than statement. [161768] £238 million has been spent on schemes benefiting more than 100 stations nationally, including major investment The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport at Birmingham New Street, London King’s Cross and (Stephen Hammond): Roads are vital to people and to Reading stations. Work includes improved access, better the economy, but they have suffered from a lack of parking, retail outlets and ticket offices. investment, and we expect traffic to increase in the years to come. Yesterday, the Chancellor announced the largest Peter Aldous: I am grateful to the Minister for that programme of investment on our roads for half a answer. Lowestoft station is Britain’s most easterly station, century to tackle congestion and support growth. As and while welcome work is currently taking place to my hon. Friend will know, since we came to power we improve bus interchange facilities the station itself remains have been working hard to minimise costs for hard-pressed shabby in appearance. Will the Minister confirm that as families by keeping fuel duty down. part of the negotiations for the extension of Greater Anglia’s franchise, the Government will do all they can Robert Halfon: The best way of helping Harlow to ensure that the station and its surrounds are smartened motorists would be to provide an extra junction on the up and brought back into full use? M11, junction 7a, which would reduce traffic and help businesses in my constituency. May I urge the Minister Mr Burns: Although there will be no changes in the to give it his strong support? requirements for the direct award up until 2016, my hon. Friend will be reassured to know that Abellio Stephen Hammond: My hon. Friend will recall that I will be required to undertake normal repair and visited him in Harlow a few years ago and saw the maintenance activities and to invest in areas where there scheme for myself. I know that there will be consultation is a positive business case. I fully understand what my on it over the summer, and that it is a priority for Essex hon. Friend says about the condition of Lowestoft county council. I do not think that I should prejudge station and the overall impression it gives, and I will the consultation, but, as my hon. Friend knows, I certainly draw both his comments and mine to the should be happy to meet him and his constituents to attention of Abellio. discuss the matter. 449 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 450

Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): Will the the building of a further 270 carriages at the Hitachi Minister join me in congratulating Driver First Assist? factory in Newton Aycliffe. Will the Secretary of State It has provided great support for motorists, piloting agree to that? It would constitute an investment in work with the emergency services and the road haulage sustainable jobs, and an investment in the long and industry to promote crash-scene first aid and crash proud tradition of train building in the United Kingdom. management skills among drivers. Will the Minister and the Secretary of State keep an eye out for an Mr McLoughlin: I welcome Hitachi’s investment at invitation to the national roll-out launch, which I believe the Newton Aycliffe site, following a £4.9 billion contract is winging its way to their inboxes? that it has already won for refurbishment of IEP trains. The Department is currently considering other proposals. Stephen Hammond: I am delighted to support that Huge investment is being made in all our railways, initiative, and I look forward to the invitation. Let me partly as a result of the huge increase in the number of also congratulate the road haulage industry on the work people who use them. it has been doing to make its drivers aware of the danger posed to cyclists by vehicles, and on its excellent Q12. [161775] Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): work in upgrading the technology in a number of vehicles. During a debate in the House last Thursday, the East Coast Main Line Minister of State acknowledged that investment in infrastructure and rolling stock for East Coast would be financed by the taxpayer, but that there would also 6. Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): What his policy be some private investment. Perhaps— is on the privatisation of east coast main line services; and if he will make a statement. [161769] Mr Speaker: Order. We do not need these constant sedentary interventions from the Minister of State. The The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick message is clear and simple: be quiet, man. McLoughlin): This Government’s programme for rail franchising was announced on 26 March. The comprehensive schedule included the intention to return Sheila Gilmore: What additional investment does the the inter-city east coast franchise to the private sector Secretary of State see privatisation bringing? by February 2015, and that remains our policy. Mr McLoughlin: I simply say to the hon. Lady: look Jenny Chapman: The east coast main line will have at what has happened since privatisation—and, indeed, returned £800 million to the Exchequer by the end of all the current franchises in operation were let by the this financial year. Are not the Government taking us last Government. from a position in which the line subsidises taxpayers to one in which taxpayers, through their fares, will subsidise Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): At the shareholders? previous Transport questions the Minister of State said on East Coast that Mr McLoughlin: I am guided by the words of the last “the involvement of the private sector means that we can increase, Labour Transport Secretary, who said: over and above the taxpayers’ money, the money that can be “I do not believe that it would be in the public interest for us to invested”.—[Official Report, 25 April 2013; Vol. 561, c. 995.] have a nationalised train operating company indefinitely…because Yet he has now admitted to me in a letter that the of our recent experience of rail franchising”.—[Official Report, investment House of Lords, 1 July 2009; Vol. 712, c. 232.] “comes from an increase in the value of Network Rail’s regulatory He said that when he held the job that I hold now, and asset base”, I think he was right. and he says Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): “it is through private sector operation that we can best realise the The east coast main line has benefited from major benefits of the planned investment.” improvements over the last 20 years. Will my right hon. Why does the Secretary of State not now just admit to Friend assure me that the Government will not neglect the House that his Minister was wrong? the need for future investment in that important route, notwithstanding the huge amounts of money that are Mr McLoughlin: No, what my right hon. Friend said being sucked into the doomed HS2 project? was absolutely correct. We are seeing huge investment in the railways and, as I said just a few moments ago, all Mr McLoughlin: Huge investments are being made in the franchises currently in operation were let, and endorsed, the east coast and, indeed, a number of other railway by the last Government. lines. Our package of rail investments between 2014 and 2019 will lead to the largest-ever electrification on Maria Eagle: The fact is that the Secretary of State’s our railways. The Chancellor confirmed that and further policy does not bring in any additional investment and investment in the railways yesterday. is costing taxpayers, with millions of pounds paid to train companies to extend contracts so we can focus on Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): I refer the House to East Coast. He claimed West Coast is paying more my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. money back to the taxpayer than East Coast: it is not. I support the HS2 project, but because that network He said Lord Adonis backs his plans: he does not. He will not extend to the north-east of England, there will says they are vital to bring in investment: they are not. still be a need for investment in the east coast main line. Is it not the case that, one by one, his arguments for this One option, under the intercity express programme, is costly and unnecessary privatisation have fallen away? 451 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 452

Mr McLoughlin: It is wrong to draw direct comparisons Local Growth Fund between one company and another. East Coast uses older rolling stock, which is cheaper to rent than the Pendolinos used by West Coast, so I do not acknowledge 8. Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab): What what the hon. Lady says. What I do acknowledge is that assessment he has made of the potential role of the there has been huge growth in the railway industry since local growth fund in improving transport; and if he will privatisation. That has been brought about in the main make a statement. [161771] by competition between the different rail-operating companies—something that the last Government endorsed The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport throughout the entire 13 years when they had the power (Norman Baker): The single local growth fund will to change any of these things. incorporate devolved major transport scheme funding along with other funding streams from across Government. The contribution the fund can make to improving transport Local Pinch Point Fund will ultimately be determined by local decision takers. The Chief Secretary will make a statement on the matter in 31 minutes. 7. Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD): What progress he is making on approving schemes under the Rosie Cooper: I will try to get in before him. The local pinch point fund. [161770] Burscough curves, the Ormskirk bypass and a railway station for Skelmersdale are much-needed transport The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick projects in West Lancashire that would benefit from McLoughlin): From the local pinch point fund, I have local growth fund money. Following the Chancellor’s announced 72 schemes across the country that will statement yesterday that local enterprise partnerships benefit from £190 million of Government funding. Together are to bid for single growth fund moneys, it is unclear to with third-party contributions, including from the private me who is responsible for making decisions on local sector, over £300 million will be invested as a result of transport priorities. Is it LEPs or the local transport that fund. authorities? Whose door do I knock on to get that much-needed money? Mr Ward: I thank the Secretary of State for his answer, and for the welcome infrastructure investment, Norman Baker: We have set up local transport bodies particularly in commuter routes. Despite the fact that in and I have recently been engaging with them on their Bradford people are either travelling up a hill or are just assurance frameworks, so in the immediate future I about to do so, cycling is very popular. Every day tens would suggest that the hon. Lady contacts her local of thousands of people travel from Bradford to Leeds transport body. The LEP responsibility kicks in from and from Leeds to Bradford. Can the Secretary of State 2015. give me any information about the “highway to hell”, the proposed scheme for the cycling superhighway between John Pugh (Southport) (LD): Does the Minister agree Leeds and Bradford? that the local growth fund should be used to boost cross-country connectivity and not just to join together the big cities, particularly in areas such as Lancashire? Mr McLoughlin: I am always keen to look at schemes that help cyclists, including by increasing their safety. A number of schemes are currently before the Department, Norman Baker: I certainly agree that it is important and I hear what my hon. Friend says in support of that to consider all aspects of the geography when considering bid, but I have to say there are bids from a number of bids. It is not simply a matter of building huge new colleagues for these schemes. roads from A to B. Often, the local pinch point investments referred to by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary a moment ago can be very effective indeed, so we should Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): I thank be prepared to be open-minded about the schemes that my right hon. Friend for the approval given for the are appropriate for funding. improvements under the fund to the A421 in my constituency. May I ask what his hopes are for the future scope of that fund, so we may, perhaps, bid for further Get Britain Cycling Campaign schemes on the A421, including at the western edge of my seat leading into your constituency, Mr Speaker? 9. Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): What steps he is taking to support the get Britain cycling campaign. Mr McLoughlin: Well, Mr Speaker, I do not think I [161772] want to prejudge any future schemes that may or may not be developed. What I would like to point out is that The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport we announced the local pinch point fund last year, and (Norman Baker): I welcome the work that my hon. it has been incredibly successful. We had more bids than Friend and the hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian we had money available for it. Although I am mindful Austin) have undertaken through the all-party cycling of that, I will see what else can be done. However, as a group inquiry. We are looking at the recommendations result of the Chancellor’s announcements yesterday carefully and will respond in the near future. The coalition and the statement shortly to be made by the Chief Government takes cycling very seriously and is committed Secretary, there will be huge investment in our roads, to leading the country into getting more people cycling, which is much needed. more safely and more often. 453 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 454

Dr Huppert: I thank my hon. Friend the Minister for Seema Malhotra: The Piccadilly line is vital for thousands that comment. We look forward eagerly to the response of my constituents travelling to work at the airport or to and hope that it will be very positive. One suggestion London and is a key route for Heathrow’s passengers. It that came up repeatedly was that safety for both cyclists is increasingly overcrowded and in need of upgrading. and pedestrians would be driven by 20 mph speed zones Will the Minister reassure me that where cuts are being as the standard on most residential side streets, but one made to Transport for London’s budget, made necessary problem is that the police do not seem to be enforcing by the Government’s failure to deliver growth, that will them properly. Will the Minister have words with the not put at risk this vital investment? police to get them to enforce the law? Stephen Hammond: The hon. Lady seems to have Norman Baker: I entirely agree that 20 mph zones missed my response to her question, in which I said that and limits can be useful in particular locations. I know we announced yesterday that we were giving the Mayor that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary has already almost an extra £9 billion of capital. It is for the Mayor taken up the matter of police enforcement with the to make decisions about how he deploys that capital. Association of Chief Police Officers. Of course, operational matters are for the police to decide, but in my view if a Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab): Yesterday, when summing local democratically elected body decides that a 20 mph up the debate on HS2, the Minister of State, Department limit should apply, the police should enforce it. for Transport, failed to give comfort or even mention the Stratford solution to the congestion at Euston. Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): The Minister says Will the Government give a commitment to take seriously that he takes cycling seriously, so when will the Government the cost-effective proposals for HS2 at Stratford to help implement the relevant part of the Traffic Management the east of London, the City, Essex and Kent? Act 2004 to enable local authorities to enforce measures against law-breaking motorists who drive in cycle lanes Stephen Hammond: My right hon. Friend obviously and sit in advanced stop boxes for cyclists? did not have quite enough time to mention Stratford in Norman Baker: My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary his closing remarks, but I assure the hon. Lady that the responded to that exact question on part 6 of the Government look at all these things seriously and will Traffic Management Act a moment ago. We have had continue to do so. representations about that; I am considering the matter Topical Questions seriously; we are in discussions with other Government Departments; and I hope to make a statement shortly. T1. [161783] Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD): If he will make a statement on his departmental Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): With roads congested, responsibilities. high petrol prices and obesity increasing, investing in cycling generates huge benefits and savings elsewhere. The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick What confidence can the Minister give us that yesterday’s McLoughlin): Since I last addressed the House, I have 9% cut in the Department for Transport’s budget will been able to announce the full programme of local not see the paltry amount of money that Britain spends pinch point schemes, benefiting from £190 million of on cycling reduced still further? capital funding from the Government. Recognising the crucial role that such capital investment plays in unlocking Norman Baker: I do not accept that we spend a paltry growth, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the amount of money. The local sustainable transport fund Exchequer yesterday announced a 5.5% real-terms increase is £600 million—more than £1 billion with match in the Department’s capital budget. funding—94 out of the 96 schemes have cycling elements; we have spent £107 million more on a range of cycling The Government have also this morning published schemes in recent months; and there will be a further the complete road casualty statistics for 2012. I can tell announcement on cycling spending shortly. I can assure the House that in 2012 the number of reported deaths the hon. Gentleman absolutely that spending on cycling on our roads fell by 8% to their lowest level since will continue. records began in 1926. This is welcome news. However, we cannot afford to be complacent. The number of London Transport Network cyclist fatalities increased by 10% within the year, underlining the importance of our continued work in 11. Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op): making cycling safer. What his plans are for future investment in London’s transport network. [161774] Simon Wright: Norwich is one of the country’s leading cycling cities, with one in five adults cycling at least The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport once a week. The city has ambitions to double this (Stephen Hammond): In his spending round statement figure in the next 10 years, and Norwich’s bid for city yesterday, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced cycling ambition funding would go a long way to achieving that the Government will give the Mayor almost £9 billion that aim. May I urge the Secretary of State to back the of capital spending and additional financing power to bid and inform me when he intends to make an the end of this decade. We will also consider the case for announcement? Crossrail 2. In return, we expect the Mayor to bear down on the running costs of Transport for London. Mr McLoughlin: I welcome Norwich’s ambitious plan The Chief Secretary to the Treasury will make a statement to double the number of adults cycling over the next in a moment about investment in infrastructure, including 10 years. An announcement on the successful cycling investment in transport for London. ambition grant bidders will be made as soon as possible, 455 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 456 but as I said in my opening statement we cannot be T3. [161785] Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) complacent about cycling safety. I look to the increasing (Lab): Last Friday, many hon. Members from across interest in the House in this subject and I will consider the north-east went to their local East Coast what else the Department can do. rail station to highlight the planned privatisation. At Newcastle Central station and elsewhere, the support Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): Will for East Coast’s remaining in the public sector was the Secretary of State introduce new legislation to improve overwhelming, and that has since been emphasised the regulation of level crossings before the end of this by many letters and e-mails. So why is the Secretary Parliament? of State ignoring the views of those who use East Coast rail and pressing ahead with a costly, wasteful, unnecessary and ideological privatisation? Mr McLoughlin: I will certainly consider what the hon. Lady says about level crossings. I have had Mr McLoughlin: As I have said many times, if it is conversations with Network Rail about what we should ideological, it must have been the ideology of the previous do about them. I will look at whether legislation is the Government, because that is what the former Transport right way to go or whether we already have the powers Secretary and the former Chancellor said should happen. to get things put right. It is not ideological; it is about getting the best service and making sure we get long-term planning on the east T5. [161787] Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD): coast main line. I believe that we will get a better service My constituents face some of the highest car insurance because that planning for the future will take place. premiums in the country. I am aware that many Departments have to be involved in this, but will the T7. [161789] Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) Minister reassure me that dealing with this terrible (LD): Forget high-speed rail; in south-west England issue remains a top priority and Cornwall, we welcome average-speed rail, reduced fares and wi-fi on long-distance services. What progress is being made? Stephen Hammond: I can indeed reassure the hon. Gentleman about that. My right hon. Friend the Secretary Mr McLoughlin: I was down in the west country—the of State and I hosted a follow-up summit on 25 March Cornwall and Devon area—just a few weeks ago. I fully to discuss with the industry ways to bring down premiums. recognise the importance of mobile services for the The Ministry of Justice has already banned referral fees travelling passenger and I am keen to see improvements and is consulting on steps to reduce the number of made. We are discussing with First Great Western how fraudulent whiplash claims. We are also taking steps to to deliver better services to the hon. Gentleman’s ensure that drivers are better prepared, the driving test constituents. is safer and there will be more responsible drivers on the road, which again will help to drive down premiums. T4. [161786] John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): Following on from the question asked by my T2. [161784] Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East (Lab): In the past few years, rail fares have been rising (Mr Bain) about fares, in a recent poll by Passenger almost three time as fast as wages, and are among the Focus only 42% of passengers were satisfied with most expensive anywhere in Europe. What will the cap the service they were receiving. Exactly what is the be on regulated rail fares by franchised rail operators in Minister going to do to improve that? Might it not be the 2015-16 financial year? time for us to freeze fares until people are satisfied with the service? Mr McLoughlin: With the help of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, we have capped the overall increase Mr McLoughlin: The Opposition have to decide whether in regulated fares to RPI plus 1. I am very aware of the they want investment to continue at the levels that we pressure of rail fare increases that passengers face, and are putting in to the railways. If they do, it has to be so are the Government. paid for. I believe the cost has to be shared between taxpayers and those who use the services. I make no apology for the amount of investment that this Government T6. [161788] Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) are putting in to Britain’s railways. It is desperately (Con): This week, a private developer announced needed and the right thing to do, but it has to be paid plans to invest £400 million in private housing in for. Worcestershire; it is also going to help with the dualling of the southern link road. Will the Department commit T9. [161791] Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I to working with my county council to ensure that we am pleased that in recent years the volume of freight use the opportunity to unlock further investment in being carried on our railways has increased, and it is Worcester Parkway station and a new bridge across the important that that welcome trend continues. What River Severn to the heart of cyber valley in Malvern? plans do the Government have to encourage as much freight as possible to transfer from road to rail? Stephen Hammond: I am happy to assure my hon. Friend that we will of course be pleased to work with The Minister of State, Department for Transport the county council, as we already do. I was delighted (Mr Simon Burns): The hon. Gentleman raises an extremely that we were able to approve the Worcester integrated important point. He will be as pleased as I am that since transport scheme last year, and my door is always open privatisation, freight transport has increased by 60%. should she wish to make the case for her constituents. We are helping the rail industry to develop a strategic 457 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 458 freight network, which will make rail freight increasingly new bus initiatives—Better Bus Areas, the green bus competitive, so that we can get even more freight off fund and so on—to make sure that buses are properly our congested roads and on to our railways. funded in this country.

T8. [161790] Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): Will Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): Earlier this week statistics the Minister look into the scandal of Driver and Vehicle were released suggesting that in London, transport Licensing Agency checks on the practices of private spending per head of population is 520 times more than parking companies? Schedule 4 to the Protection of in the north-east region—£2,700 in London, compared Freedoms Act 2012 is supposed to protect motorists with a measly £5 in the north-east. What is the Secretary from rogue car parking companies, such as the operator of State going to do to ensure a fairer distribution of of Eastgate car park in Accrington, but the answer to a transport finances to the north-east region? freedom of information request on 18 June revealed that, in breach of the 2012 Act, the DVLA is not Mr McLoughlin: It is right that there has been large checking either notices or correspondence between car capital investment in London. Building Crossrail was parking companies and motorists. the right thing to do. It was long overdue and it is now being built. It is currently the largest construction project Stephen Hammond: I visited the DVLA only a couple anywhere in Europe. But I also think we must get the of weeks ago to look at the various departments there, balance of transport spend right, and that is partly why and I know that the agency is alert to the problems of HS2 is an important means of spreading those benefits. fraudulent car park operators. If the hon. Gentleman I very much bear in mind the points that the hon. brings this particular case to me, I will make sure that Gentleman makes. As I pointed out to one of his hon. we look into it. Friends, we are spending £4.9 billion on the intercity express programme for new trains for the north-west Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con): Does and the south-west. my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State accept that the transformation of the passenger experience at Stansted airport needs to be matched by a transformation in the time it takes to get to Stansted airport, specifically an LEADER OF THE HOUSE improvement on the 51-minute journey, which I understand he undertook a week ago? The Leader of the House was asked— Mr McLoughlin: My right hon. Friend is right. As he European Union: Scrutiny knows, I was at Stansted last week and saw at first hand the subject of his representation and his call for greater investment in Stansted airport. I would like to discuss 1. Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): What steps that with him and think about it with Network Rail. he is taking to improve the role of the House in scrutinising European Union-level decision making. [161794] T10. [161792] Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): Stafford road and Stanhope way in my constituency are in a state of chaos owing to unco-ordinated bus services The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Andrew using narrow residential roads. What plans does the Lansley): This coalition Government have significantly Minister have to look at the strategic co-ordination of increased scrutiny of European Union-level decision bus services outside London? making through the provisions of the European Union Act 2011. Three Bills were taken forward in the last Session to signal the approval of Parliament under the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport Act. In addition to that, the Prime Minister has made (Norman Baker): We think that these decisions are best 16 statements to this House on business at the European made locally. It is therefore a matter for the relevant Council. The House will be aware that the European local authorities to engage with the main bus operators Scrutiny Committee is currently conducting an inquiry to drive that forward. We have incentivised partnership into the European scrutiny system in the House and we working through the creation of Better Bus Areas. That await its findings with interest. is putting £70 million more into the bus network, so there is a financial incentive for local authorities and Mr Jones: What more can the House do to ensure bus companies to work together. If they are not doing early engagement with the European Union in such so, I suggest the hon. Lady contact both of them in her matters? area. Mr Lansley: The Deputy Leader of the House and I Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): Further to visited the European institutions during the Whit recess. that answer from my hon. Friend, what steps are the It was clear to us that there is more that we can do in Government putting in place to protect vital rural bus this House to improve our engagement with and impact services, particularly in sparsely populated areas? on European legislative proposals, especially through the work of the Select Committees of this House. In my Norman Baker: I hope my hon. Friend will have view, which I think is widely shared, this House is the noticed in the statement yesterday that we have fully prime source of democratic legitimacy and accountability protected the funding for bus services in order to recognise for law-making. We should therefore be taking every their importance to rural areas, including my hon. opportunity to develop our influence, including in Friend’s. In addition to that, we are continuing to fund EU law-making. 459 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 460

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION Diana Johnson: Given the public concern about APPGs and lobbyists, might it be possible, as a very small measure, to list next to each Member’s entry on the The hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter parliamentary website all the APPGs to which they Ross, representing the House of Commons Commission, belong? was asked— Library/Table Office: Opening Hours Tom Brake: I thank the hon. Lady for that suggestion, which is one that the Standards Committee might like 2. Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): What to consider. Indeed, the House might want to look at comparative assessment he has made of the opening that in future. I am sure that we will work to support the hours of the Library and the Table Office and the initiative. sitting hours of the House. [161795]

Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North): In the absence of Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con): Will my my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness, Sutherland right hon. Friend assure the House that he will take no and Easter Ross (John Thurso), I have been asked to steps in this matter until he has heard the evidence and reply. read the report from the Standards Committee, to which the Administration Committee has submitted its own Members expect that both the Table Office and the evidence? Members Library will remain open at least until the rise of the House on sitting days. In the case of the Table Office, the Adjournment of the House at the end of Tom Brake: Yes, I would like to assure the right hon. sitting is the point at which no further procedural Gentleman that that is the case, and we await the business can be transacted. Some adjustment has been Committee’s report with great interest. Incidentally, made recently to opening hours of the Table Office and Members still have an opportunity to contribute to that the Library to reflect the earlier sitting of the House on process. I am sure that we will then want to allow the Tuesdays and Thursdays and the use made of services House the opportunity to consider the matter in great by Members. detail.

Dr Coffey: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): answer. I recognise the importance of the Table Office I am sure that the whole House will want to join me in staying open until business has finished, for example so thanking you, Mr Speaker, for the leadership you have that amendments can be laid, but I suggest, as we are shown in recent weeks in helping to restore public trying to save money, that we look again at the Library confidence in Parliament after the public’s concerns service’s opening times so that when we have a late about lobbyists and APPGs. The Administration moment of interruption on, say, a Monday, we do not Committee, which is so ably chaired by the right hon. have Library staff here until 1 o’clock in the morning, Member for Saffron Walden (Sir Alan Haselhurst), has as frankly that is unnecessary and more office hours recommended, as part of a range of measures, the would be appropriate? scrapping of APPG passes. Will the Deputy Leader of the House confirm that the Government will not oppose Mr Doran: I think that Library staff who are on duty those recommendations? On the broader concern about are working on other matters, because Members phone the transparency of APPGs and lobbyists, does he not in with questions and all the rest of it. The present now accept that all lobbyists must be covered by a arrangements were agreed by the Administration register and a code of conduct? Committee after a study of last year’s changes to the House’s sitting hours. If the hon. Lady wants to take the matter to the Committee to look at again, I am sure Tom Brake: The Administration Committee makes that its Chair, who is sitting next to her, will be happy to sensible proposals, and I look forward to the House listen. being able to come to a decision on them in due course. On lobbyists, the hon. Gentleman will have heard the debate that took place just a couple of days ago. The Government have made our position very clear: we will LEADER OF THE HOUSE come forward with a third-party register of lobbyists.

The Leader of the House was asked— Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Does the All-party Parliamentary Groups Deputy Leader of the House not agree that the real problem with APPGs is that there are simply far too many of them and that the House would benefit from 3. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): the imposition of a moratorium on the creation of any What steps he plans to take to promote the transparency new ones and a programme of amalgamation and mergers of hon. Members’ membership of all-party parliamentary across the whole system? groups. [161796]

The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom Tom Brake: The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting Brake): Rules relating to APPGs are a matter for the point. We all have our different views on whether there House. The hon. Lady might be aware that the Standards are too many APPGs. The Standards Committee might Committee is currently conducting an inquiry into APPGs. want to consider that proposal. If it comes forward with Its terms of reference include the transparency of the proposals to limit numbers, that is a matter that I am House’s regulatory system. sure the House would want to consider. 461 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 462

E-petitions Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend may not know this, but I have this week written to the Chair of the Procedure Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne 4. Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): What (Mr Walker), to set out the Government’s response to plans he has to introduce an e-petitions system applicable the Committee’s sixth report of the previous Session, to both Parliament and Government. [161797] which related to debates on Government e-petitions in Westminster Hall. I hope that we will shortly be able to 6. Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD): What plans bring forward a motion to extend the practice of opening he has to introduce an e-petitions system applicable to up Westminster Hall for e-petitions until the end of this both Parliament and Government. [161799] Parliament while we consider longer-term proposals for the petition system in this House. 8. Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): What plans he has to introduce an e-petitions system applicable to Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): When both Parliament and Government. [161801] the right hon. Gentleman is looking at the e-petition system and perhaps setting up a Committee to do so, The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Andrew will he ensure that we do not ignore paper petitions and Lansley): The introduction of the coalition Government’s give e-petitions and paper petitions the same status? e-petitions system has been a successful improvement for public engagement with Parliament. However, it is Mr Lansley: The hon. Lady is right. I referred to the clear that the public expect to be able to petition their petition system advisedly—that is, not just the e-petition Parliament and seek action from their Government. I system. At the moment the e-petition system is working want to work with the Procedure Committee, the Backbench well and is a significant improvement on what happened Business Committee and interested Members from across in the past. The paper petition system in this House is the House to develop the current system into something somewhat anachronistic. What we need—I want to that more fully meets that expectation. work with colleagues to make this happen—is a petition system that enables our constituents to petition their Sarah Newton: I thank the Leader of the House for Parliament but also engages with Government to get a his answer, but can he really assure the House that any response from Government. The signal improvement, I changes to the e-petition will not impact on or restrict hope, will be for this House to be able to use the petition the work of the Backbench Business Committee? system as a basis for demonstrating further improvements in the engagement of the House with the issues that matter to our constituents. Mr Lansley: I agree that reforms of this House should not have an adverse effect on the successful work of the Government Expenditure: Scrutiny Backbench Business Committee, which this coalition Government established. It may be possible, none the less, that there is a role for a Select Committee or 5. Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): Committees in examining petitions, taking evidence on What progress he is making on the introduction of petitions, seeking information from Government, and measures to improve financial scrutiny of Government even recommending debates in Parliament. However, I expenditure. [161798] envisage that it would remain for the Backbench Business Committee to consider and schedule debates. 9. Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): What progress he is making on the introduction of measures to improve financial scrutiny of Government expenditure. [161802] Simon Wright: Under the current system, the MP of a signatory to an e-petition is not made aware that a The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom constituent’s signature has been added. Can reforms to Brake): The coalition Government are keen to build on the e-petition system take account of the importance of the success of the alignment project in simplifying promoting direct engagement between the signatory Government financial reporting. We intend to do this and their elected representative? by working with Select Committees to support better scrutiny of Government expenditure and to promote Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes a good point. greater efficiency and improved value for money in all Improving engagement with Parliament and politics Departments. must be the focus of any improved system. I am grateful to him for his suggestion on how we can achieve that. Andrew Bridgen: What assessment has the Deputy However, I alert him to the fact that more than 11 million Leader of the House made of estimates day debates in signatures have been added to petitions in the two years scrutinising Government expenditure? Could they be a or so since the Government’s e-petitions system was useful tool to monitor the ever-escalating costs of projects established. I am not sure that hon. Members would such as HS2? welcome an e-mail for each of those signatures, but I do agree that there are ways in which we can open up the Tom Brake: The three estimates day debates each data overall to help Members and their constituents to Session present a valuable opportunity for Select identify and work together on popular petitions. Committees to hold Departments to account, but too often the debates are focused on specific Committee Glyn Davies: In order to increase opportunities for reports rather than departmental expenditure as such. debate on e-petitions with 100,000 signatures, will my We are keen to explore with Select Committees any right hon. Friend consider bringing forward a motion ways in which we can enable these debates to focus on to reopen Westminster Hall on Mondays? a wider range of financial and performance-related 463 Oral Answers27 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 464 documentation. I am sure, for instance, that as part of estimates day debates, on 3 July, is a broad one that that process the Transport Committee would want to will look at public expenditure on health and care pick up on the issues that the hon. Gentleman has services. raised in relation to HS2. George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): As we drive Dr Huppert: The public believe that Parliament scrutinises forward the necessarily tough reforms and efficiency Government expenditure. When I talk to people they savings in the public sector, I urge the Government to are surprised that in fact we have a few debates about keep their foot on the pedal in driving that revolution very specific items on estimates days and do not even through the internal mechanics of Government. What look at the entirety of one Department’s expenditure. steps can this House take better to scrutinise Government Will my right hon. Friend look urgently at options to expenditure and, indeed, expenditure in the House, so reassure the public that Parliament does look at expenditure that we can show the public that we are putting our own in these areas, whether through debates in this place, house in order? Westminster Hall or Select Committees? We have to hold the Government to account. Tom Brake: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. As I have stated, more effective use could be made of Tom Brake: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. estimates day debates. We have a range of Select Committees Some Select Committees do provide the level of scrutiny that look at financial matters. I think most people that he wants. For instance, the Health Committee would agree that they are effective in doing that. and the Transport Committee look at the estimates carefully. I am pleased to say that at least one of the Mr Speaker: Mr Simon Hughes. Not here. 465 27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 466

Investing in Britain’s Future in the best digital equipment for our police and £100 million in a new prison in north Wales—a scheme that will 10.30 am eventually save £20 million every year. More than The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): £200 million is being invested over three years to increase I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for allowing more the digitisation of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs’ time than is usual for a statement, given the range of customer services, a move that will save more than announcements to be made today. £50 million every year in administrative costs. Yesterday, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set I pay tribute to the Minister for the Cabinet Office out the difficult decisions that the Government have and Paymaster General and his team for their expertise taken to continue the process of restoring our country’s and insight in unlocking these savings. I am the first finances. I pay tribute to his work to see the country Chief Secretary ever to have had this pool of commercial through these most difficult of times. expertise at my disposal during a spending round. They Today, I will set out how the British economy can tell me that we can do more to save money for the succeed in the global race by creating balanced growth taxpayer. So, working closely with the Minister for the and delivering lasting prosperity. Most past Governments Cabinet, I will conduct a further rolling efficiency review of every colour have prioritised short-term convenience of all Departments to unlock savings to support our over the long-term national interest. Today, we change economic priorities. I will strengthen the financial that. We are shifting the Government’s policy horizon management capability in Government, too. We will to match the modern economy’s horizon, because the take action to sell off £15 billion-worth of public assets coalition Government want to make the right long-term by 2020. Some £10 billion of that money will come from choices for Britain. corporate and financial assets, such as the student loan I therefore announce the most comprehensive, ambitious book, and the other £5 billion will come from land and and long-lasting capital investment plans this country property. has ever known. We are putting long-term priorities The Government are the custodians of taxpayers’ before short-term political pressures. I tell the House in assets. When we no longer need them we should sell all candour that these are not easy choices. There is no them back at a fair price and not act like a compulsive easy way to create jobs and prosperity. It is a difficult hoarder. Too often, local and national Government sit path, but the right one. on an area of land that could be put to good use for the Today, it is clear that the British economy is moving economy, housing or schools. Today, we say this to from rescue to recovery. We inherited an economy in businesses and communities, “If there are any publicly dire straits. Official statistics published this morning owned sites out there that you can make economic use show that the recession in 2009 was even deeper than we of, then tell us.” Unless Ministers can be convinced that first thought. We have made painful choices to get our the site is needed, we will sell that land at a fair price economy back on the right track. We are making good and we will use the proceeds to pay down our debt and progress—the deficit is down, jobs are up—but as we invest in our economy. move from repair to renewal, we need to invest in the Let us not forget that the plans we inherited from the fabric of our nation. I can do that because we have previous Government included significant cuts to capital chosen to find savings from day-to-day budgets, allowing spending in this Parliament. We have added to those us to recycle billions into long-term capital spending. plans year-on-year with more money for investment in That is not the easy choice, but the right one. this Parliament. Some people say that we are not delivering, We can guarantee £300 billion of capital spending by but since we came to office more than 30 transport the end of the decade. Today, I can set out our plans for schemes have been completed, 150 railway stations have more than £100 billion of that for the infrastructure of been upgraded and we have built 84,000 affordable our country: the biggest public housing programme for homes. However, we need to work more smartly to more than 20 years, the largest programme of rail improve delivery. No single Government infrastructure investment since Victorian times, the greatest investment project in recent memory has been quite as triumphant in our roads since the 1970s, fast online access for the as the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic games, so we whole country and the unlocking of massive investments appointed Lord Deighton, the man who oversaw that in cleaner energy to power our economy forwards, all at success, to improve infrastructure delivery across a price that we can afford to pay, without adding a government. He is working his way through Whitehall single pound to our borrowing forecasts. Investing in Department by Department, helping to develop clear stronger communities, in better infrastructure, in new delivery plans. Today, the Government are accepting his sources of energy—that is how we will build a stronger central recommendation that we take crucial infrastructure economy in a fairer society, enabling everyone to get on delivery out of the hands of civil servants and into the in life. hands of commercial experts. At every stage of the process, we have sought to cut Our innovative UK guarantee scheme is enabling waste and inefficiency first, focusing on the back room, privately funded projects to go forward, too. It has not the front line. We should not pretend that that is already provided certainty to investors in the Drax painless. Back-office efficiencies mean thousands of job power station and the Northern line extension. I can losses. Contract renegotiation means rightly asking more announce that UK guarantees will be available for two for less from our suppliers. But that is the right way to more years to December 2016. I can announce today make savings, while improving the quality of our public that we will offer a guarantee of up to £500 million to services. support investment in the Mersey Gateway bridge and a Across Government, we are using our capital budgets multi-million pound guarantee to advance the new nuclear to help our public sector become smaller, more efficient power station at Hinkley point, a guarantee that could and more effective. In 2015-16, we will invest £25 million provide growth in Liverpool and a guarantee that could 467 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 468 provide power to 8% of the UK’s homes. These deals increase that in real terms every year to 2020. More are not yet done, but they are a major step forward for than 400,000 households will be protected over this our country’s future. decade. Insurance also has a vital role to play in helping Let me turn to how we will invest in stronger households deal with the consequences when flooding communities. The Government have made a very strong does occur. I am pleased to tell the House that we have commitment to education. We have protected the schools now reached an initial agreement with the Association budget, including the pupil premium. We know what of British Insurers on the future of flood insurance. The parents want: a good school nearby in a good state of industry wants to do the right thing and so do we. We repair, and this is how we will give it to them. First, have always said that we wanted to find a solution that some buildings simply are not good enough, so we are works for households at risk of flooding, wider bill rebuilding 261 of the worst schools as part of the payers and the taxpayer. The industry’s proposed scheme, Priority School Building programme. With the moneys known as Flood Re, promises to do that by effectively I have committed today, we will complete this by 2017—two limiting insurance prices for high-risk households. Up years early. There are many other schools in need of to 500,000 households would be helped, with support repair and investment. The previous Government stopped targeted towards those on lower incomes. Support would even checking just how many schools were in need of be funded by a levy on insurers, something the ABI has repair. We have started again. We will put £10 billion promised us will not increase customer bills in general. behind this, which will be enough to clear the urgent Importantly, there will be no cost to taxpayers. backlog. We are investing, too, to create 1 million new There remain many details to work through, so we places in a decade across the country, including in propose also to take powers to allow us to regulate for Lancashire, Leeds and London—better buildings and a affordable flood insurance should that prove necessary. place for every child are the best investment in our We are seeking these powers in the Water Bill, which we future generation. are today introducing to Parliament. The Secretary of We will continue to invest in the health of the nation, State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is today too. The health budget will rise in 2015, including on launching a public consultation on our proposed approach, capital. That means we can begin redeveloping the and we welcome views on it. He will introduce our final Royal Liverpool hospital next year, and I can also proposals to Parliament as a Government amendment announce a further £150 million for health research in the autumn. infrastructure, including facilities for our world-leading Local businesses, local communities and local authorities work on dementia. know best how to make the decisions to support growth in their area. For decades we have not given them Our new approach to housing is truly transformative. enough chance to do so, but now we are. Yesterday, the Our Help to Buy scheme is already getting people on to Chancellor confirmed that we are establishing a single the ladder. But, put simply, this country does not have local growth fund to transfer funding streams to local enough homes that people can afford. The previous enterprise partnerships, as recommended by Lord Heseltine, Government allowed the number of affordable homes with £2 billion in 2015 and at least that in every year for to fall by a shocking 420,000. A good home should not the rest of the decade. In total, at least £20 billion will be a luxury for the few, but an achievable aspiration for be under the control of LEPs to 2020. The details of the many. We are already ensuring that the affordable how that will work are set out in the document published housing supply increases every year, not decreases, as it today. did in every year but one under the previous Government. But our housing associations have told me that they can We have also reached agreement with Greater Manchester do more. To do that, they need certainty on rents, on its innovative “earn back” scheme, which will allow alongside public investment. So today I can provide it to invest in its priorities, such as the Trafford Metrolink both those things: I can guarantee that social rents will and the A6 to Manchester airport relief road. I know be set at the consumer prices index plus 1% out to that many hon. Members, including my hon. Friend the 2025—the longest period of certainty ever; and I can Member for Cheadle (Mark Hunter), have been provide £3 billion more capital over three years from campaigning on that for many years—as indeed has the 2015 to deliver 165,000 new affordable homes. On average, Chancellor, for that matter. that is more each year than in any of the past 20 years; it The regional growth fund has also been a fantastic is more in three years than the previous Government success, thanks to the drive of people up and down the managed in seven. And we can do all that because our country, led by my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime approach gets twice as many houses as they did for Minister. The £2.4 billion in this Parliament is safeguarding every pound we put in, getting more for the taxpayer half a million jobs, spread across every English region. and more for this country. This spending round also Furthermore, we are today investing an extra £600 million funds over 2,500 more new homes specifically designed so that we can do even more to strengthen our communities. for older and disabled people, and £160 million for For our economy to grow, however, we need those decent homes, mainly in London. I know that issue is communities to be better connected. In the last two important to many MPs, particularly my right hon. decades, rail passenger numbers have doubled, and that Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark figure is set to rise by nearly 15% over the next five (Simon Hughes). This is the most ambitious and significant years. More people are using our railways than at any investment in affordable housing for a generation. time since 1927, so we have set out a clear, long-term Too many Members of this House, on both sides, plan to cope with that demand. Last year, we announced have in recent years seen the devastation that flooding that Network Rail had been funded to deliver the can cause in their constituencies. We need to work with largest programme of rail investment since the Victorian the private sector to protect families from the threat of era, and today I reaffirm that commitment. This investment flooding, so we will provide £370 million in 2015 and will bring new life to our rail networks, upgrading 469 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 470

[Danny Alexander] schemes. First, we will take action to fix the backlog of maintenance that has left road surfaces crumbling in stations such as King’s Cross, Manchester Piccadilly communities up and down the country.We are committing and Birmingham New Street, improving links from £10 billion of investment in road repairs between 2015-16 Liverpool to Newcastle through the northern hub and and 2020-21. More than £4 billion of that money will be opening up a new line from Bedford to Oxford. We are spent on national road maintenance—enough to resurface also electrifying 850 miles of railway. By comparison, more than 21,000 miles of road, which is the equivalent the previous Government managed 9 miles in 13 years. of London to Beijing and back—while the other £6 billion My hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and will be spent locally, allowing local authorities to fill the Lonsdale (Tim Farron) will be pleased to hear that equivalent of 19 million potholes a year. Network Rail is conducting a feasibility study into Secondly, we will deliver all the major projects in the electrifying the Lakes line between Oxenholme and Highways Agency’s pipeline. We will add two lanes to Windermere. We are going one better in London, and the busiest motorways, bringing another 221 lane miles from 2015, we will fund Network Rail to begin work on to our road network, and we will tackle some of the electrifying the line connecting Gospel Oak and Barking. most congested parts of our network, through projects Nowhere is fast commuter transport more important such as the £1.5 billion A14 scheme between Huntingdon for our economy than in London, and our investment in and Cambridge. This scheme is of strategic national Crossrail will support more than 120,000 additional importance and will unlock jobs, housing and growth in peak-time commuters every day. The Government are the region, as well as providing key relief for a major committing £2 million to support a funding and financing freight route. I am delighted to announce that we will be study into Crossrail 2. The challenge for the Mayor of bringing forward the start of construction by almost London now is to determine how at least half of the two years, to 2016. cost of the scheme can be met through private sources, I can confirm today that there is more: the A19 ensuring that it will be affordable to the UK taxpayer. between Newcastle and South Shields, the A63 in Hull, Keeping London connected is crucial, but it must not the M6 junctions between Birmingham and Manchester, be done at the expense of our other great cities. It is not the M5 junctions from Bromsgrove to Worcester, the good enough that the UK has just 68 miles of high-speed A38 Derby junctions, the M1 junction near Long Eaton rail, compared with 1,000 in Germany and more than and south of Rugby, the A21 between Tonbridge and 2,000 in France. We want a high-speed line that connects Pembury, junctions on the M4, the M23 Gatwick junctions eight of the UK’s 10-biggest cities, making daily commuting and the A27 Chichester bypass. between them possible for the first time. Today, therefore, This money will pay for us to identify and deliver we provide long-term financial certainty for High Speed solutions for the most notorious problem spots across 2, setting a funding envelope of £42.6 billion for construction the country. Any hon. Member from the Prime Minister costs and £7.5 billion for rolling stock, and we are down who lives in Cornwall or who has driven there for setting a clear budget for the scheme of £16 billion for their holidays will want to see a better A303. Any hon. the next Parliament. Member planning a trip to Scotland—Scotland as part Yes, that is a higher overall budget than previously of a strong United Kingdom—will want to see a better put forward. We are learning from our Olympic experience A1 north of Newcastle. We will also look at the A27 and setting a long-term, realistic financial plan with the corridor, the trans-Pennine route and connectivity to right contingencies. This is the longest and largest transport Leeds airport. budget the Treasury has ever set aside, and the people We will ensure that these investments are delivered, running the project will have to deliver within it.This because I can also announce that we are transforming project will change the economic geography of our the Highways Agency into a publicly owned corporation, country, and I urge hon. Members to support it. It is an organisation that will have the long-term funding not being built at the expense of a single other rail certainty and flexibility to deliver the best possible road project. Taken together, we are supporting more than network for the UK’s motorists. We are legislating to £30 billion of investment in rail, making this coalition ensure that these reforms and this investment are the most pro-rail Government in history. guaranteed. We also need to think of the remote parts of the UK Where our predecessors left the road network on the that HS2 will not reach. Air connections are crucial to hard shoulder, we are bringing it into the fast lane. We those regional economies, so to help maintain those are not only building the roads of the future but developing connections, I can announce today that we will provide the cars of the future. This Government remain £10 million a year for a new regional air connectivity committed—[Interruption.] fund. I look forward to Howard Davies’s report into that and other aviation issues. Mr Speaker: Order. There is a very disorderly atmosphere Millions of people rely on our road network. We have in the House. Mr Docherty, you are in a very jolly frame worked hard over the past three years to protect road of mind, but it would be greatly to your benefit and that users, cancelling fuel duty increases and saving 13p on a of the House if your jollification could be a tad more litre of petrol, but our road system has been decaying restrained. for decades, and without further significant investment now, by 2040, nearly a quarter of motorists’ travel time could be spent stuck in traffic. I can therefore announce Danny Alexander: Thank you, Mr Speaker. today the biggest programme of investment in our This Government remain committed to ensuring that roads in 40 years. The Government will invest more the UK remains at the forefront of decarbonising road than £28 billion over the six years from 2014 in the transport and investing in electric vehicles. In the enhancement and maintenance of national and local 21st century, good communications are not just about 471 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 472 faster roads and high-speed railways, however; they are we have been able to make faster progress so, today, also about high-speed internet access. The Government I can announce that we are publishing the prices for have already committed £1.2 billion of public investment renewable generation ahead of schedule. Prices have to fixed superfast broadband. I saw at first hand been set for key renewable technologies, including onshore the impact that that investment is having on smaller and offshore wind, tidal, wave biomass and solar. The communities when I visited Rothbury in Northumberland. prices are broadly similar to those we would have to pay It is crucial, if we want to rebalance our economy, that under the renewables obligation. We will set the price at it is not just the biggest cities that have access to the the level we need to bring forward sufficient investment, fastest broadband. but not a penny higher. As these technologies develop, The UK already has better broadband coverage, usage costs will fall, so we will reduce the price too. For instance, and choice than Germany, Italy, France and Spain, but next year we will guarantee generators £155 per megawatt we want to go further. I can announce today that we are hour of offshore wind. By 2018 this will fall to £135. We providing a further £250 million to ensure that fixed expect our reforms to bring forward 8GW to 16 GW of superfast broadband reaches 95% of the population by offshore wind capacity. Industry asked for certainty; we 2017. We will work closely with industry to ensure that have given it. Now industry needs to get on with it. at least 99% of the UK population have access to Yes, this approach has costs now but, in the long term superfast broadband—whether fixed, wireless or 4G— for consumers, they will be more stable than they would by 2018. otherwise have been. In fact, when this investment goes Let me now turn to how we support the private sector alongside our plans for energy efficiency, overall our to deliver our energy needs. Some Members will know policies could save an average of £166 per household by that I was privileged to spend my early years on the 2020. We are taking the right decisions now for the Hebridean island of Colonsay. Then, the island had no good of our country. mains electricity. Unreliable diesel generators powered In addition, we need to guarantee that capacity will the island, and regularly broke down. Until mains electricity be available at short notice to meet spikes in demand, arrived, we never quite knew when the lights would go for instance through gas-fired stations. Today we can out. We do not want any community in our country to provide details on a new regime that will achieve this. face that problem in the future. Our existing power The first auction for this new capacity market will run stations are closing, as they are too old or too dirty to next year to provide certainty for the winter of 2018. continue. They must be replaced and added to as our But there is financial risk for construction, too. That is need for electricity grows. Thanks to the hard work of why we have set up a Green Investment Bank to back the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change— green energy projects. It has committed over £600 million already; for instance, it has invested in the Walney wind Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): Is he farms off the north-west coast of England, which are the best ever? expected to provide energy to the equivalent to 300,000 households. We have already pledged to provide £3 billion Danny Alexander: He is the best ever. for the bank and, today, I can announce that we will Thanks to my right hon. Friend’s hard work, we are provide an additional £800 million so that it can expand ready to unleash the energy revolution that our country further. Crucially this will include, for the first time, the needs. Today’s news from the British Geological Survey power to borrow half a billion pounds in 2015-16 from of 1,300 trillion cubic feet of shale gas—double the Government. This is a real milestone in green investment, previous estimate—confirms its huge potential for the delivering a key promise we made in our election manifesto, UK. That is almost as much hot air as the shadow unlocking over £100 billion of private investment into Chancellor produces in a year—[Interruption.] And if our energy networks, and supporting jobs, growth and they would stop fracking around on the Opposition prosperity for years to come. Our energy policy is a win Front Bench, they might learn something. The plans for consumers, a win for investment and jobs and a win that we are setting out today provide the framework to for our climate; the greenest Government ever. kick-start this industry in a way that protects the In the last three years we have re-secured for this environment and supports local communities. country a very precious commodity: credibility. No one As well as revolutionising the way in which we get our doubts that the coalition is serious about sorting out the energy, we are transforming how we generate and supply economic mess that we have inherited. People have it. As we face the challenge of climate change, we need the right to know that we will continue to work hard to to bring forward investment in low-carbon technologies. repair the economy, that interest rates will stay low and This country has massive potential in wind, wave and that we will get our country back on an even keel. But tidal. We need to harness it. We are putting in place a repair is not all we do, because people also have the comprehensive energy policy through the Energy Bill right to expect that Britain stays one step ahead in the that is in front of this House. This is an approach that world, that we ease congestion on our roads and deliver we know will work for consumers and investors alike. faster broadband to make sure businesses in every corner Last year we made the unprecedented decision to set of this country can serve their customers—[Interruption.] out funding plans for low-carbon generation all the way to 2020, providing up to £7.6 billion in real terms. Mr Speaker: Order. There is a lot of noise in the Now we can set out what this means for investors. We Chamber. I think that the Chief Secretary is nearing his do this through setting strike prices. If future prices are end. below this level, we will guarantee a price to the generator, giving them the confidence to invest now. But if they rise above it, we will claw back money for consumers. Danny Alexander: I am certainly nearing the end of We were planning to set strike prices next month, but this statement. 473 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 474

[Danny Alexander] legislation, which should have underwritten up to £40 billion of infrastructure. Two years ago, the Chancellor told People expect us to ease congestion on our roads and us—I do not know whether he remembers this—that a deliver faster broadband to ensure that businesses in further £20 billion would be leveraged in from pension every corner of this country can serve their customers, funds, yet in March he let slip that only £1 billion had and that we make sure all parts of Britain keep going. been committed and that no investments had yet been They expect that we will invest in a modern railway so made. Of the 576 projects in the Government’s existing that commuters get to work on time and home in the infrastructure pipeline, just seven have been completed evening to see their kids. People have the right to expect and 80% of them have not even started. All the while, that we keep spending serious money on the schools the construction sector has lost 84,000 jobs since this and hospitals on which all families rely, and that we Government came to power. make sure that the lights stay on in our homes, even When the Prime Minister said, over 18 months ago, when the demand on energy is surging. that he would go on The plans I have set out today deliver all that and “an all-out mission to unblock the system and get projects underway”, more. This is an ambitious plan to build an infrastructure of which Britain can be proud and, in doing so, to help what happened? All that chillaxing has been at the expense build a stronger economy in a fairer society where of the recovery that should have been well under way everyone can get on in life. years ago. I commend this statement to the House. Let me ask the Chief Secretary about the detail of his statement. Will he confirm that the Government’s plans 10.58 am for housing construction are stagnant and that no Government have presided over such a low peacetime Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): What a level of new housing completions since the 1920s? Will lot of hot air from the Chief Secretary. Haven’t we he confirm, too, that the local government capital budget, heard it all before? Plenty of empty promises. But I which includes housing, is being cut by over a third— must ask; when will the Government pull their finger 35%—in yesterday’s spending round announcements out and actually start to build some of these things? for 2015. Will he confirm that particular figure? It The Chief Secretary to the Treasury has been sent out looks, from the Chancellor’s face, that that is in fact the with this long-winded statement to talk and talk and case. What action is he taking to tackle the lengthening talk about infrastructure investment, but all the evidence time for both major and minor planning applications to shows that the Government are failing to deliver. As be decided, despite his promise two years ago that they John Cridland, the director general of the CBI said would improve on the 13-week time scale? What happened yesterday: to that? “While the Government talks a good game on infrastructure”— On transport, will the Chief Secretary now tell us and I think even that is a bit doubtful— when he is going to publish the three long-awaited “we’ve seen too little delivery on the ground so far.” national policy statements on ports, transport networks It is no wonder that the director general of the British and aviation? I hope that somebody is keeping an eye on Chambers of Commerce has described the Government’s the High Speed 2 budget, which seems to have leapt plans for infrastructure as overnight by £8 billion. It was good that he gave the “hot air, a complete fiction”. go-ahead to the Mersey Gateway bridge—again. In Should not the Chief Secretary be listening to his fact, he also re-announced the A14 funding, which I leader—not the Prime Minister, but the Deputy Prime think the Chancellor announced two years ago in the Minister, who said this week: November 2011 autumn statement—and in exactly the same words. “The gap between intention, announcement and delivery is quite significant”? On energy and carbon reduction, is not the Renewable A little more action and a little less Tory from him Energy Association right to describe the decision to would not go amiss. Why is the Chief Secretary neglecting undermine the feed-in tariff rates as “a horrendous the health of our flatlining economy, and why was there strategic mistake”? On shale gas, would it not be sensible nothing—I repeat, nothing—in yesterday’s spending to be led by the evidence rather than by political antipathy review to kick-start a strong and sustainable recovery? to renewables? If the Chief Secretary really wants to Will the Chief Secretary confirm that this Tory-led encourage new investment in our energy infrastructure, Government have spent £5.6 billion less in capital investment should he not have a decarbonisation target to clean up over the last three years when compared with the plans our power supply by 2013? they inherited from Labour? No wonder that their plans On flooding, it was noticeable that the Chief Secretary for construction and growth have been such a total flop. said that the devil was in the detail and there is still a lot Is he not just a little embarrassed that the infrastructure to be worked out, but will he stand up and confirm that activity in the British economy collapsed by a staggering these changes might need primary legislation? If so, 50%—it has halved—in the first three months of this when is that going to happen? year? Does he not realise that three years of economic On schools, does the right hon. Gentleman not now stagnation means that this is the slowest recovery for regret scrapping Labour’s Building Schools for the Future over a century, with just 1% growth compared to the 6% programme? On “Newsnight” last night, the Education that the Chancellor promised when he started his cuts Secretary did not seem to realise that his capital budget programme? was being cut in real terms, perhaps because his so-called The Treasury’s performance on capital infrastructure Priority School Building programme announced three is lamentable. Just one project has been supported years ago has so far seen construction start on only one by the Government’s supposed emergency guarantees school building. 475 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 476

Does the Chief Secretary not understand how dangerous Mr Speaker: The length of the Chief Secretary’s it is to ignore the warnings from the International answer is improper, regardless of its content. The way in Monetary Fund, which says that Britain should bring which a Minister replies to questioning is a matter for forward capital infrastructure projects because we need him, and he is at liberty to refer to material, but he must a significant near-term stimulus now, in 2013, not several not dilate in his answer. If it were to become effectively years away. Why does he not listen to the advice of the a second statement, he might have some difficulty retaining IMF? Why does he not come clean and admit that he is the attention of the House. cutting the capital investment budget overall, in real terms, by 1.7% for 2015-16, as it says at the bottom of Danny Alexander: Thank you for that advice, page 11, table 2 of yesterday’s spending review, should Mr. Speaker. I was merely attempting to respond to the anyone care to look at the detail? Is it not the truth inaccurate account of our investment given by the hon. that there is no new money for infrastructure? He is Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie). In fact, spinning a line, rolling multiple years together to make investment as a share of GDP will be higher during the figure sound big, reheating old announcements in the current decade than it was during the 13 years for his microwave statement, which should have turned into which Labour was in office. We are spending more and action long ago. underspending less than Labour did. Ours is a record of The House can at least agree that the Government delivery and a record of action, and today I have given have been negligent with the health of our economy and the House our promise of more. that the deficit is not falling as a result. The scandal is The hon. Gentleman asked about the private sector. that they are still ignoring the urgent need to kick-start We have been listening to the private sector, which is growth when they should bring forward projects without why we are setting out the long-term plans that it wants. delay. We are seeing no delivery for three years, no He asked about the planning system. We have reformed infrastructure brought forward and, for all the hype, the planning system, and he voted against that reform. real terms cuts to long-term infrastructure in 2015. He also asked about flooding. As I said in my statement, Something has got to be done about this lot, because so my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for far they are not capable of delivering the goods. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will be announcing amendments to the Water Bill. The hon. Gentleman will know from the spending round document which Danny Alexander: What a pathetic response to a very was published yesterday that the forecast for local serious long-term and detailed plan for this country’s government self-financed expenditure is up, not down. I infrastructure. We heard no admission of Labour’s am sorry to hear that he opposes investment in shale 13 woeful years of delivery of infrastructure. Given gas. His Building Schools for the Future programme some of the hon. Gentleman’s questions, he obviously was expensive and inefficient, which is why we have had not listened to my statement. introduced the Priority School Building programme. On borrowing, our deficit is falling as a share of I should very much have liked to hear from the hon. GDP, which is the proper measure, but only the Labour Gentleman that he supported our detailed and ambitious party could claim that new figures showing that we plans, and so would the country. I am sorry that we did borrowed less in previous years are bad news for the not hear that from him, and I hope that he will reflect country—the Labour party is addicted to borrowing— on it in the days to come. and that is on the day when we learned that the hole that Labour left in our economy was even deeper than Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): previously said. Today’s figures show that the 2008 I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his statement. I recession shrunk our economy by 7.2%, not the 6.3% thank him for his announcement about flood defences, of previous estimates. As the first shadow Minister which will pave the way for a flood insurance agreement, to respond since the new figures came out, the hon. but will he please give careful consideration to maintenance Gentleman made no apology for the mess the Labour spending as well? The Environment, Food and Rural party made of the economy. We are clearing up its mess, Affairs Committee took evidence from the Association and he ought to have shown a little humility on that of British Insurers about the subsidy issue. There is a point. fear that a subsidy will be paid by all households that On delivery, let me give the hon. Gentleman the facts take out insurance, which would have implications for about this Government’s record. Since 2010, 30 major their spending. We want insurance to be available, yet road schemes have been completed. Of the 24 major affordable. projects announced since 2010, eight are under construction, and eight more start this year. Of the 56 local road Danny Alexander: I know that the hon. Lady has schemes announced, 28 have been completed or are taken a great interest in this subject. Maintenance spending under construction, and 15 more start this year. Some constitutes a major part of the DEFRA resource budget 150 stations have been upgraded across England and that was announced yesterday. DEFRA has made Wales, including Blackfriars and King’s Cross. Some considerable efficiencies in flood resource spending, 190,000 school places have been completed for the next and will continue to have a significant budget. I have school year, and 81 free schools have been built. Some been assured by the Association of British Insurers that 84,000 houses have been completed, and 59,000 houses the proposed levy will not add to people’s bills overall. have been protected from flooding. Crossrail is employing 8,000 workers with six boring machines—more than the Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Opposition Front Bench. Hillsborough) (Lab): I am afraid that the Chief Secretary’s On investment, we have added £20 billion of investment statement was an insult to the intelligence of the British at every fiscal event since the 2010 spending— people. We have established, have we not, that in 2015 477 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 478

[Mr David Blunkett] Danny Alexander: I agree very much with my hon. Friend. The commitment on broadband in particular, we as a nation will be spending £10 billion less on with fixed broadband in 95% of the population and infrastructure than we spent in 2010. How can the Chief superfast broadband—mobile, 4G and so on—to 99% Secretary allow infrastructure and structural investment or more of the population, will be welcomed in every funds from Europe to be protected in Scotland and corner of the UK, no matter how remote. Wales while they are being cut by two thirds in England, at a time when English local government is being asked Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab): to cut its day-to-day spending on essential services The biggest problem facing the north-east of England by a third, allegedly to allow funds to be invested in is the need to strengthen the region’s private sector infrastructure? employment base. How will today’s statement help to do that? Danny Alexander: The Prime Minister secured an extremely good deal on structural funding for the United Danny Alexander: I would refer to two things. First, Kingdom at the recent European summit. There will be the single local growth fund, which we have worked on a fair allocation of the small reductions in funds between with the North East local enterprise partnership in the four constituent nations of the UK, and I think that particular, will be very welcome news in the north-east. is the right and proper approach. I also hope the commitment to the A1 north of Newcastle will promote significant investment in the north-east Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): economy. I congratulate the Chief Secretary on his excellent statement, but perhaps he will forgive me if I do not share his Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con): I enthusiasm for HS2. I am delighted to learn that there is particularly welcome the money earmarked to tackle to be a new prison in north Wales, because I have been flooding, as there was a fatality in my constituency asking for one for eight or nine years, but I am sorry earlier this year. Can my right hon. Friend confirm this that the statement made no reference to Wylfa. should help people in places like Looe, which is still More important is the question of airport capacity in suffering from road closures due to the horrendous the south-east. We cannot duck that Howard Davies situation we had earlier this year? report for much longer. We must have it well before the general election, otherwise we shall be building HS2 in Danny Alexander: The precise details of where the completely the wrong place. money will be spent will be for the Environment Agency to develop, but the purpose of announcing this funding now is precisely to help communities such as my hon. Danny Alexander: I am aware of my right hon. Friend’s Friend’s to ensure they are not in danger of flooding in views on HS2, as is the House. She should know that future. Hitachi is considering the Wylfa power station as part of its acquisition of Horizon. As for her last point, Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): My constituents in I will certainly take it up with her. Exeter saw under the last Government five new high schools, several new primary schools and a new medical Alan Johnson (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) school, but so far, in more than three years, they have (Lab): I was pleased to hear that the Government seen absolutely nothing of what this Government have intend to upgrade the A63 at Castle street in my promised on infrastructure. Why should they believe constituency, in accordance with the last Government’s anything the right hon. Gentleman has said today, 10-year highways plan. However, the road currently given his appalling record at delivering what he has cuts the city off from the waterfront. Will the Chief already promised? Secretary agree to work with the Secretary of State for Transport and the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Danny Alexander: If the right hon. Gentleman were Wells (Greg Clark), the cities Minister, to ensure that giving a balanced account, he would also have referred the Castle street project includes an iconic land bridge to the flood defences we are investing in, and the local that will enable us to fulfil our economic potential by road project around Exeter that has been completed. connecting the city with the waterfront? Mr Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) Danny Alexander: I am grateful to the right hon. (Con): I welcome the capital for the A27 Chichester Gentleman for his comments and of course I will do bypass, for which my hon. Friend the Member for that. That is why we have funded the local growth deal Chichester (Mr Tyrie) and I have been pressing for a under the Heseltine recommendations, and this road number of years. I also welcome the initial agreement investment will also help to unlock port facilities for the Government have reached with the insurance industry greater use, for renewables among other things. based on the Flood Re proposals, and the new powers they are contemplating, which may help to tackle the Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): My right hon. refusal by a minority of insurance companies to insure Friend has made a sweeping series of announcements houses that have suffered flooding, such as the company that will be felt in every community around the country, that has just written to one of my constituents withdrawing in particular the investment in rail infrastructure. As cover because the boundary of his property suffered well as that renewal of Victorian infrastructure, however, flooding in June last year, despite neighbouring properties does he agree that his announcements on science, superfast being insured by other companies. Will my right hon. broadband and low-carbon energy are paving the way Friend look into the practices of companies that are for the hi-tech, low-carbon future? refusing to abide by the current statement of principles? 479 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 480

Danny Alexander: First, every insurance company Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): Publication of the will have to sign up to the Flood Re deal in order to be strike price for renewables today is very welcome, but as valid, and as I said in my statement, we will bring yet we have had no mention of the strike price for forward amendments to the Water Bill to take backstop nuclear. Indeed, the only mention of nuclear in the regulatory powers in case that does not happen. statement was a multi-billion pound guarantee to build Hinkley Point. How does that stand with the promise Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): Some of my for no public subsidy for new nuclear? constituents cannot sell their homes because when they, or the new buyer, seek flood insurance, it is completely Danny Alexander: It stands completely alongside that unaffordable; one person was told the excess would be promise. First, I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s positive 20% of the value of the home. When will this initial remarks about strike prices and he will see in the agreement become a substantive agreement, so as to document we published today strike prices for all the allow these people to get on with their lives? other forms of renewable energy. Of course, in the case of nuclear, there is a detailed and ongoing commercial Danny Alexander: As part of the proposed arrangements, negotiation. I am sure that he would think it right for us excesses would be capped to deal with the problem the to drive a hard bargain in those negotiations, because of hon. Gentleman mentions. We will bring forward the course these prices will have to be paid by consumers amendments to the Water Bill in the autumn. for 50 years to come.

Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): I particularly Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): I very much welcome welcome the announcement about the A38 in my the shift from entitlements and consumption to capital constituency, as there is a huge problem there for both investment that will create jobs now and underpin our local and long-distance traffic, because it is the one future prosperity. It represents a crucial part of the place where drivers have to stop at two roundabouts. I Chancellor’s rebalancing of the economy strategy. Will therefore know everybody locally will welcome that. my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary comment on May I also welcome the house building measures? We the benefit of the plans to regions outside London and do need that to get the economy going locally; we need the south-east, such as my own area of the west midlands? more houses, and we certainly need more affordable Will we see more projects like the excellent new transport homes. interchange opened in my constituency of Stourbridge last year? Danny Alexander: I agree with both my hon. Friend’s points. We need to invest in the road networks to support growth and the economy and this is the biggest Danny Alexander: I welcome that project, which is plan for road investment since the 1970s. Affordable another example of projects being delivered by this house building by housing associations accounts for Government during this Parliament. Of course, the 40% of all new housing starts this year. It is very plans I have set out today on roads, on energy and on important we maintain that record and build on it in the rail will directly benefit every part of this country, years to come. including the west midlands. The hon. Lady is right that even at a time of austerity we are squeezing spending wherever we can to realise more resources for investment Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): Yesterday in the long-term infrastructure needs of this country. we learned that of the £530 million the broadband That is the right strategy and it is a shame the Opposition delivery unit had been allocated, only £3 million had seem to oppose it. reached local authorities. Today, the Chief Secretary said that beyond 2015 he was allocating £250 million to broadband roll-out, but previously we were told that Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): the BBC licence fee would be top-sliced to the tune of I welcome investment in transport, but can the Chief £300 million. What has the Chief Secretary done with Secretary tell us how much extra he has announced that £50 million? Has he cut it or has he lost it? today in addition to ongoing programmes and projects that have already been announced? That includes the Danny Alexander: In due course we will be investing it. Mersey Gateway, which has already had its go-ahead.

Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con): The Danny Alexander: Today I have announced the guarantee investment of £1.5 billion in the A14 and the bringing for the Mersey Gateway bridge, which is necessary to forward of the project will be welcomed by my constituents enable that project to go forward because of the private and many people and businesses throughout the east of funding. That is a new announcement of a guarantee. the country. Will the Chief Secretary say a little more We are setting out tens of billions of pounds of new about how the requirement for money will be split between investment in roads until 2020. I know that the hon. central Government, the region and local businesses? Lady in particular has argued in the past for longer-term certainty on funding for road projects to allow us to get Danny Alexander: The Department for Transport will better value for money for those investments. That is make an announcement on that in due course. The precisely what we will do. point I am making today is that we have set aside the funding for delivering the project as planned, bringing Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): This must be the start date forward by two years to 2016. The road is the most substantial and, dare I say, lengthy commitment one of the most important and clogged up economic to a stronger economy made by a Liberal in government arteries in our country and we need to invest in it to from that Dispatch Box since Lloyd George. How much ensure we get our economy moving. less could we have afforded to invest in our future had 481 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 482

[Duncan Hames] to spend the money. Part of the money going into the single local growth fund comes from the new homes the Government not taken the decisions necessary to bonus, so it will enable LEPs to invest in housing if that ensure that the interest rates at which we borrow are is what they choose as part of their local economic kept low? priorities. As for the mortgage guarantee scheme, it is important that, when it is hard for young people to put Danny Alexander: My goodness! I am not sure quite together the deposit they need to buy a house, we how to respond to that one—I am blushing slightly, but support them. That demand will also bring forward I am grateful for the positive remarks from my hon. additional supply. That is the view of the Home Builders Friend. He makes a very important point. If we had not Federation, and I agree with it. entered into the process of clearing up the economic mess left by the Labour party, we would not be able to Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): invest any of this money at all. I, too, am delighted that the Chief Secretary has named the A27 as part of the road works, but he mentioned Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): The Chief Secretary only the Chichester by-pass. Will he confirm that the has confirmed what the Chancellor told us on 20 October study will include a holistic study of both the bottlenecks 2010, at column 963 of Hansard, that financial support at Worthing and Arundel? Otherwise he will just create would be available for the Mersey Gateway in my two bottlenecks further down the A27, which is the constituency. However, the devil is in the detail. Will the longest car park in West Sussex. Chief Secretary meet me to hear the concerns of my constituents? The funding package given to Halton Danny Alexander: I can confirm that we are getting borough council restricts its ability to give discounts or on with the Chichester by-pass, one of the Highways free travel across the currently free Widnes to Runcorn Agency schemes that is already worked up. We will be bridge when the Mersey Gateway opens. conducting further work across the corridor, including Worthing and Arundel, to invest across the corridor Danny Alexander: My hon. Friend the Financial between now and 2020. Secretary, who is also responsible for cities policy within the Treasury, will be pleased to meet the hon. Gentleman Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): The housing to discuss precisely those concerns. investment that the Government have announced must be set against the halving of the affordable housing Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con): Constituents programme inherited from the previous Government, in the Calder Valley who cannot get flood insurance for which led to a halving of social house completions last their homes and businesses after the three devastating year. Is it not true that the right hon. Gentleman’s floods that we experienced last summer have contacted affordable rent model is based on higher rents, that my office. Can my right hon. Friend tell the people of higher rents mean higher housing benefit, and that Calder Valley, after the announcements today, how housing benefit will cost his Government £13 billion long they will have to wait before the initial proposals more in this spending period than it did under the become actual proposals, and when all of them will be previous Government, and can he explain how that able to get flood insurance and at an affordable price? makes sense?

Danny Alexander: The existing statement of principles, Danny Alexander: I think the hon. Lady was giving a which was due to expire this month, will be continued back-handed welcome to the commitment that we made for the next year or so until this arrangement is fully in to affordable housing today. On rents, the policy that we place. I hope the hon. Gentleman will welcome the have set out of CPI plus 1 for 10 years for uprating of long-term commitment to capital investment in flood rents saves the Government a growing amount of money defence, which of course will be of benefit to his in housing benefit payments for the simple reason that constituents, along with those of many other hon. tenants rents will increase less fast than previously. That Members. is good news for those individuals, and will save the Government money, as was announced in the costings Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): Not one document yesterday. mention of local councils in the statement or the role they can play in helping to rebuild our infrastructure. Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I am delighted Why does the Chief Secretary continue with the ridiculous by the broadband announcement, but Scottish Government mortgage guarantee scheme, which the Treasury Committee, money is also required. In the current round, the Scottish the International Monetary Fund and the Governor of National party Government reduced this Government’s the Bank of England have all said is more likely to add target of 90% to only 75% in Argyll and Bute. Can the to housing demand than increase housing supply? Why Chief Secretary please persuade the Scottish Government does he not use the billions of pounds available to allow to put in their fair share of money so that the new local councils to build homes that people can afford to targets can be met in Argyll and Bute? rent and put thousands of constructions workers back in work? Danny Alexander: I will certainly do my best. I should say that the additional £250 million will need local Danny Alexander: Local authorities were mentioned matching, including in Scotland from the Scottish in my statement, particularly in relation to the single Government, to get to 95% of my hon. Friend’s constituents local growth fund. The money goes to local enterprise and, I hope, to 99% in due course. I remind the House partnerships, which as the hon. Gentleman knows bring that this is one of the areas in which we are better private sector businesses and local authorities together together as one united kingdom. 483 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 484

Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): I genuinely welcome Danny Alexander: Those representations certainly will the announcement of a new prison in north Wales, for be heard as the Department for Transport and the which I and many colleagues across the House have Highways Agency develop their plans for that important been campaigning. However, in the future—even after a route. projected Bill has been passed—can we expect all big energy announcements to be made by the Treasury? Is Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): The that not a further downgrading of the Department of £3 billion investment in affordable house building will Energy and Climate Change, where we have a part-time not make up for the cuts in 2010 that led to a 29% collapse Minister from the Department for Business, Innovation last year, will do nothing for affordable house building and Skills with the Secretary of State? Is not the Chancellor this year or next, and therefore mean five wasted years doing this for self-serving Treasury purposes? under this Government. May I ask the Chief Secretary this question: is it true that the amount announced Danny Alexander: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman today is less than in the last two comprehensive spending for his comments about the new prison. I think my right reviews? hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change welcomes the fact that he has full and Danny Alexander: As I said in my statement, and the wholehearted support from the Treasury for his policies hon. Gentleman should welcome this, we will through to bring forward the low-carbon investment this country this announcement be building more homes on average needs. every year than in any year but one under the previous Government. Frankly, he should be ashamed of the fact Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): Having been that the number of affordable homes in this country fell an early applicant for a university technical college, by 420,000 during his party’s time in office—a total UTC Reading will open in September. May I welcome disgrace. the 20 UTCs and 180 new free schools announced in today’s statement? Does the Chief Secretary agree with Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): The me that those innovative new schools are essential to announcement about the A63 is good news for the raising educational standards and providing the skills sub-regional economy in Humber and for my constituents this country will need in the global race ahead? in Brigg and Goole, and comes on top of other investments which have already been delivered, such as the Humber Danny Alexander: I certainly agree with the hon. bridge, the Get Moving Goole project and the A160. Gentleman that the innovative UTC model offers real We are doing very well on roads, but can I ask the Chief benefits to the Government’s strategy on raising educational Secretary to continue to listen to representations about standards across the whole schools system. That is why the electrification of rail services on the north and we have invested in more UTCs, and I am delighted to south banks of the Humber? hear that the one in his constituency is working so well. Danny Alexander: There has been a strong cross-party Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): The campaign on the A63, and I am pleased to have been vast majority—some 80%—of investment announced is able to make the announcement today. We will certainly in London and the south-east, and there was virtually to listen to the hon. Gentleman’s representations on the no mention of Wales. Why is there no investment in other subjects he mentions. an M4 relief road, a high-speed rail link to Wales, superconnectivity status for Swansea or a reduction in Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): We the Severn bridge toll, so we are not taxed for our should obviously welcome any investment in the economy, infrastructure in Wales, or more money for the Welsh but the Government should not have cut it in the first Government? Where is the cash for Wales? place. The Chief Secretary has mentioned on one or two occasions, as have other Ministers, that some of Danny Alexander: There are projects and programmes that investment will be financed out of efficiency savings. announced today, including on energy and broadband, Are there any efficiency savings left? which will be of huge benefit to the hon. Gentleman’s constituents, and I hope that he would welcome them, Danny Alexander: This is the first Government who as well as the new prison in north Wales, which his hon. have made a serious effort to look for efficiency savings. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) welcomed I mentioned in my statement the excellent work of the just a moment ago—[Interruption.] A prison for English efficiency and reform group in the Cabinet Office under people? I am sure there will be some Welsh people in my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet there too, if that is what the hon. Member for Swansea Office, which has yielded up a view that there are more West (Geraint Davies) would like. As for the M4, this is savings yet to be had in Departments. That is why I closely connected to the discussions, which are in their announced today a rolling programme of efficiency final stages, on our response to the Silk report, which reviews across major Departments to unlock yet further we will publish very shortly. I hope that he will, in due savings over the next two years. course, have news that he will wish to welcome. Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): I warmly welcome the I particularly welcome the announcement on the new £10 billion investment in roads, in particular the mention regional air connectivity fund. Aviation capacity is often of investment in, I assume, the dualling of the A303. described as a south-east issue, but it applies right Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that representations across the country, especially in Yorkshire. May I urge from residents around Amesbury and Stonehenge will my right hon. Friend to continue to focus on connectivity be heard and that economic benefits will also accrue to between modes of transport and on the fact that this Wiltshire from the investment announced today? issue applies right across the country? 485 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 486

Danny Alexander: I very much agree with my hon. revenues, which could potentially go to the Treasury in Friend’s point. As the Member of Parliament for Inverness, London, are used to improve and develop those great I am all too aware of the importance of air connectivity counties of England? for remote areas of the country. This fund will help to ensure that for all parts of the UK there is support Danny Alexander: As the hon. Gentleman will see available when those projects can be justified. when he looks at the document that we published today, part of the announcement states: Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Given “Operators will commit to provide £100,000 in community that the Chancellor has had to admit that the spending benefits at exploration phase, per well-site where hydraulic fracturing round did not bring forward a single penny of new occurs. They will commit to sharing their proceeds with communities, providing one per cent of revenues to communities that host public capital investment for 2015-16, can the Chief them.” Secretary tell the House when we will have the judgment of the Office for Budget Responsibility as to whether Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): May I echo the his statement today will make any difference whatsoever Chancellor’s praise yesterday for the Chief Secretary for to growth this year, next year or the year after? the great job that he has done as the Tory election strategists’ little helper? Beneath the hilarious hyperbole Danny Alexander: The OBR will publish a new growth in today’s statement, is not the truth, as per the Chief forecast at the time of the autumn statement. At the Secretary’s own document, that gross investment is falling Budget this year we allocated an additional £3 billion of by £1 billion next year—by 1.7%—or is the document capital in 2015-16 and for the remaining years of the wrong? decade, and the announcements today are partly about how we will use that money. Danny Alexander: We set out the plans for capital investment in 2015-16 and beyond yesterday and in the George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): I welcome Budget last time. We have set aside £50.4 billion in this major package of investment, which contrasts with 2015-16. That is £3 billion more than was previously the record of gridlock under the previous Government. promised, which we added to at the time of the budget. I particularly welcome the investment in science and Those comments are ludicrous when we have not yet research and development infrastructure, the investment heard an apology from Labour for the mess they made in broadband for the rural economy, and the A14, of the British economy. which will help to unlock Britain’s fastest-growing city, Cambridge. With respect to the eastern region, may I Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): I welcome ask that priority be given to the A47, which is a strategic the Chief Secretary’s statement. Affordable flood insurance artery linking east-west and linking the offshore energy for all is essential. Also, the A303/A30, which runs from cluster and the life science cluster with Cambridge? Honiton up into Somerset and Wiltshire, is absolutely What reassurance can my right hon. Friend give us that essential for the visitor experience in the west country in this £28 billion roads package, the A47 may yet be and for its businesses. One final plea is for new school able to receive funding? buildings for Tiverton high school and a new school building for Mrs Ethelston’s primary school in Uplyme. Danny Alexander: I am grateful for the welcome and I will certainly pass on the point about the A47 to the Danny Alexander: I agree wholeheartedly about the Secretary of State for Transport. importance of the A303 and those road connections. The south-west is a vital part of our economy and needs to be properly connected to the rest of the country, and Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Even the Chief Secretary this investment will do that. With regard to the specific must admit that the Government completely and utterly points on schools, I will ensure that they are brought to bungled the west coast rail franchise. The way that they the attention of the Secretary of State for Education. are now implementing the roll-out of superfast broadband is exactly the same bungle. It is working out as a bung to BT. Is it any coincidence that the chief executive of BT Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): Is it is to become a Trade Minister, so it will get yet further not a shocking indictment of this Government that bungs? since 2010—[Interruption.] I suggest hon. Members listen to what I have to say before responding. Is it not a shocking indictment of this Government that since Danny Alexander: What a pathetic comment. There 2010, 84,000 construction workers have lost their jobs was a proper competition for all the contracts in every and construction output is down by 12%? Is not this county in England, as well as in Scotland and Wales. statement just another example of smoke and mirrors The hon. Gentleman should welcome the fact that the that will do nothing to improve investment before 2015? Government are making a serious financial contribution— the first Government ever to do so—in the roll-out of Danny Alexander: The hon. Lady is right to highlight superfast broadband across the country. the problems in the construction sector, but those problems started in 2008 when her Government were in office. Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston North) (Con): They saw a major drop in output. By investing more in Assuming that 10% of shale gas is recoverable, Lancashire affordable housing, in both this Parliament and the and Yorkshire are sitting on $440 billion worth of gas. next, we are giving companies in the sector certainty so Will the Chief Secretary ensure that the communities that they can plan for the future and we are providing that live closest to this potential development are generously Government investment to help ensure that jobs are compensated, and that a sizeable proportion of those maintained in a vital part of our economy. 487 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 488

Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): There is much of 420,000 and cancel the survey to evaluate the to welcome in the statement: increased funding for maintenance needs of our country’s schools? It is also affordable housing, science and green investment—it is about getting the best value for taxpayers’ money, which, all excellent. The announcement on the A14 will be frankly, Building Schools for the Future was failing to welcomed by many. There is a long history of schemes do in a big way. for that road coming and going, while the poor design continues and the Huntingdon viaduct is well beyond Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): I greatly welcome its design life. Can my right hon. Friend confirm whether the Chief Secretary’s announcement of investment it will be a toll road? I certainly hope that it will not be. in road infrastructure. I particularly welcome the Can he be clear on that point? reference to M4 improvement in the Chancellor’s statement yesterday. However, the mid-Wales economy depends Danny Alexander: The road will be taken forward on other improvements on the Welsh-English border at according to the plans set out previously. That will Llanymynech. The cost-benefit on the Welsh side is include some tolling for new capacity. huge, but on the English side it is very weak. Will my right hon. Friend ensure that mid-Wales does not lose Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): out on transport infrastructure improvement because The north-east leads the way in the British export of the way in which devolution works? industry, so can the Chief Secretary tell us what percentage of infrastructure spending will go to the north-east, and by when, to support the expansion of our manufacturing Danny Alexander: Many of these matters are devolved export base? to the Welsh Assembly Government, and so it is for them to take them forward. I have regular and friendly Danny Alexander: The hon. Lady is absolutely right discussions with the Finance Minister of the Welsh to highlight the fact that the north-east is the only Assembly Government, and I will draw my hon. Friend’s region in the country that is a net contributor to the concerns to her attention in my next conversation. UK’s exports. The infrastructure investment announced today, for roads, broadband and so on, will help those Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): As regards capital industries. I cannot give her a precise breakdown, but I spending that creates jobs, it would be wrong to say that urge her to encourage the local enterprise partnerships this is a “jam tomorrow” statement; it is a case of jam in in the area to take a full part in the local growth fund, a couple of years and then only perhaps and not very which is a huge opportunity for the north-east. generously. Can the Chief Secretary confirm that in 2014-15 flood capital spending will be £344 million less Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): I warmly than we spent in 2010? If he is not sure, he can turn to welcome the announcement of further investment in the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food high-speed broadband. Nearly two years ago almost and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Newbury (Richard £1 million was awarded to the Labour-controlled Greater Benyon), who is on the Bench next to him and who Manchester authorities to procure improved broadband. should have been making that statement today. Today, thousands of my constituents in Bury, Ramsbottom and Tottington are still waiting and have seen no improvement whatsoever in broadband speeds. Will the Danny Alexander: In 2014-15 spending will be Chief Secretary please undertake to speak to whoever it £358 million, rising to £370 million in 2015-16. is, whether in Broadband Delivery UK or local government, to ensure that my constituents will at last see a real Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) improvement in broadband speeds? (Con): May I give my heartfelt thanks to the Chief Secretary for mentioning the improvements to the A303 Danny Alexander: I am sorry to hear about the experience for which I have campaigned for the past 15 years? How of the hon. Gentleman’s constituents. The Greater long does he estimate that it will take for the dualling to Manchester Combined Authority is actually one of the become a reality? most innovative in the country. The earn-back deal, which we have confirmed agreement on today, will give those authorities a real incentive to invest in the local Danny Alexander: The A303 is one of the most notorious economy. I will certainly pass on his specific concerns to transport bottlenecks in the country, and these BDUK. improvements will have a major impact on the economy in the south-west of England. The Highways Agency will be developing the detailed plans, so we will need to Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): I am afraid consult on those, including, no doubt with my hon. that half an hour of windy rhetoric from the Chief Friend. This is part of the funding that was set out for Secretary does nothing to make up for the dreadful, between now and 2020 to deliver improvements on that short-sighted decisions that this Government took when route. they first came to power three years ago. If investing in schools and homes is so important to them, why was one of their first actions to axe the Buildings Schools Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I welcome for the Future programme, and why did they cut the the encouraging news about the Trafford Park extension national affordable housing programme by 63%? of the Metrolink. Will the Chief Secretary comment on new Homes and Communities Agency regulatory powers Danny Alexander: If investing in schools and houses that appear to be restricting housing associations’ ability was so important to the previous Government, why did to open up new and commercial income streams, with a they preside over a fall in affordable housing stock knock-on effect on their ability to build more homes? 489 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 490

Danny Alexander: I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s Newcastle upon Tyne East (Mr Brown), the Chief Secretary comments on the Trafford Park Metrolink extension. spoke of his “commitment to the A1”. What he actually On her question, I will certainly look into that, because said in his statement was: I do not want the Homes and Communities Agency to “Any hon. Member planning a trip to Scotland…will want to be doing anything that holds back housing associations see a better A1 north of Newcastle.” from engaging in appropriate developments. I will take Is that really his idea of a commitment? If he can say up her point with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of nothing more credible—I hope that he can—is it any State for Communities and Local Government. wonder that he inspires so little confidence in the country?

Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): Northumberland Danny Alexander: I am sorry to hear such a residents will welcome the good news about the A1, curmudgeonly response to what I thought was a very flood defences, and the potential school rebuilding positive announcement. [Interruption.] The point that programme. Greater funding for broadband is key to I was making in my statement was that there are a England’s least densely populated county. I know that number of long-standing issues on our highways network my right hon. Friend has visited Northumberland. Will that have never been addressed. We have set aside the he give more details about the expanded broadband plans? funding and will bring forward the plans to ensure that the improvements to that route take place between now Danny Alexander: There is a broadband plan in and 2020. Northumberland that has been negotiated by the local authority with the supplier, funded partly by national Mr Speaker: My sense is that there is nothing Government and partly by local government. Today’s unparliamentary about the use of the word “curmudgeon”. announcement is about extending broadband to reach It is very much a matter of taste. 95% of the population of Northumberland and to work with the industry to find ways to get broadband, whether Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): I congratulate mobile or 4G, to 99% of the population. We will keep the Government on the announcements about social my hon. Friend updated on that. care spending and the health service. I draw my right hon. Friend’s attention to a capital project that will Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): I fear that serve my constituency: the commitment to an investment the Chief Secretary does not really understand housing of £219 million in St Helier hospital. However, that finance. The homes to be built from 2015 have a subsidy project has been stuck in the mud for the past three level of under £20,000 per unit, and that is how he is years because local NHS managers have been blocking able to announce that there are suddenly double the its progress. Will he intervene with Ministers at the number that there might otherwise have been. The Department of Health to unblock that project and problem with that, as he knows full well, is that it provide the much-needed investment? requires much higher rent levels, and that will have a knock-on effect on the housing benefit budget for years Danny Alexander: I agree with the first part of what into the future. Is that sensible? my right hon. Friend said. The massive reforms to health and social care that we announced yesterday are hugely important for the future of this country. I am Danny Alexander: The move from social rents to proud to be part of a Government who are taking those affordable rents for homes newly built by housing matters forward. Much of the credit for that must go to associations is a right and fair way to ensure that there him for the work that he did in government and for his is a balance between the subsidy given to the individual campaigning outside government. On the latter point, I and the capital subsidy given to the builder of the will certainly raise that matter again with Ministers at house. It allows us to build many more houses for the the Department of Health. amount of money that we have available, and the hon. Lady should be grateful for that. Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ Co-op): It was quite reasonable for my hon. Friend the Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): I thank my right hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) Friend for his statement, particularly the announcements to try to find out exactly what the Chief Secretary has about my constituency, notably the improvements on announced about the A1, so I will try again. Is he the M1 at the junction at Long Eaton. I add to that the making a commitment to the dualling of the A1 from nearby work on the A38 at Derby and the campaign Newcastle to the Scottish border? If so, when will the that I have been leading for many years to secure the work start? If he is not making that commitment, what reopening of the train station at Ilkeston, now agreed is he announcing today? by the Department for Transport. Does he agree that all those points link together to bring great improvements Danny Alexander: I am committing to undertaking and opportunities for the people of Erewash, as well as the improvements that are necessary to bring that road encouraging businesses to invest in the area? up to a proper standard. There is clearly the need for a detailed feasibility study to consider precisely what is Danny Alexander: It is clear that the hon. Lady’s needed at every stage of the route. The money is set campaigning is a model of parliamentary effectiveness aside for that investment between now and 2020, so it and I urge her to continue with it to the further benefit will take place. of her constituents. Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): Superfast Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): North Yorkshire is about to make North Yorkshire one In response to my right hon. Friend the Member for of the first counties in England to deliver 90% broadband 491 Investing in Britain’s Future27 JUNE 2013 Investing in Britain’s Future 492 coverage, but we need a bit more help to get to 95%. We draft strike prices. That should encourage SSE and also have the Tour de France coming next year, and ScottishPower to go ahead with their investment decisions there is a big risk that the cyclists will come a cropper on in Galloper and the East Anglia Array, making Suffolk our potholes. Can we have a conversation soon about truly the green coast of the country. how North Yorkshire can get the cash quicker? Danny Alexander: The hon. Lady and I share a passionate Danny Alexander: I am sure that Ministers at the commitment to green energy, and I hope that the strike Department for Transport would be happy to have that prices now complete the picture for energy companies conversation. As the hon. Gentleman will know, in the looking to invest. My message to the energy companies autumn statement last year, we set aside additional is, “You have the certainty you need, now bring forth funds this year and next year for road maintenance and the investment that the country needs.” dealing with pinch points. I dare say that some of that money could be used to ensure that the Tour de France Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): I welcome the passes off without pothole-caused incidents. announcement on superfast broadband and hope that Arley, in my constituency, will benefit. Will my right Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): Is hon. Friend seek to ensure that far more priority is not the A63 announcement more about news management given to providing superfast broadband on our industrial than road management, given that the work is due to estates that are, at times, being overlooked in the current start no earlier than has been planned for many years? roll-out? Is this not another case of jam tomorrow, while Hull continues to have traffic jams today? Danny Alexander: The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I will say two things. First, I will draw Danny Alexander: As we are the first Government to his point to the attention of BDUK. Secondly, specific have committed to undertake that work, I thought that funding has been set aside to ensure that enterprise the hon. Lady would have welcomed it. zones have the best broadband in the country. Broadband is a crucial part of those zones being able to attract the Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): investment they need. There will be a broad welcome for the certainty that is brought by the Chief Secretary’s announcement of a Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD): Despite new prison in north Wales. However, any announcement the welcome news on capital spend on flood defences, on infrastructure spending by Departments whose there remains the very serious issue of flood insurance. responsibilities are devolved to Wales will have Barnett As my right hon. Friend will know, the current agreement consequentials. Will he give a flavour of the consequentials with the insurance industry runs out in just three days’ that will accrue to the Welsh Government? time, yet he is not promising legislation until the autumn. What can be done in the meantime to maintain affordable Danny Alexander: The Barnett consequentials of the and available flood insurance, so that people can protect, 2015-16 public spending round were set out in the mortgage and sell their homes? Chancellor’s statement yesterday. On the resource side, the Welsh Assembly Government will see a small reduction Danny Alexander: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. in their budget and, on the capital side, a small increase. Let me repeat what I said in my statement. The existing I am sure that they will work with him to ensure that the statement of principles will continue until such time as money is used wisely for the benefit of the people of the new arrangements that I described in my statement Wales. are put into place. The new arrangements will last a very long time and will protect his constituents. Alongside Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): I welcome the extra capital investment we have announced today, the A14 construction phase starting two years earlier, they will ensure that we keep people safe from the risk but I am particularly pleased by the publication of the of flooding. 493 27 JUNE 2013 Business of the House 494

Business of the House poster, it is clear that this Government have cut the NHS and not the deficit? The Financial Services (Banking 11.57 am Reform) Bill is due to return to the House on 8 July, but with only one day of debate for all its remaining The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Andrew stages. After the important recommendations from the Lansley): The business for the next week is as follows: Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards last MONDAY 1JULY—Motion to approve a ways and week, which the Prime Minister claimed he supported, means resolution relating to the Finance (No.2) Bill, why has the Leader of the House scheduled only one followed by remaining stages of the Finance (No.2) Bill day of debate? I am sure he agrees with me that we must (Day 1). act to reform the problems in our banking system, so will he now undertake to provide a second day to ensure TUESDAY 2JULY—Conclusion of remaining stages of the Finance (No.2) Bill (Day 2). that all the necessary amendments have time to be heard? Does the Leader of the House agree with the assessment WEDNESDAY 3JULY—Estimates Day [1st Allotted Day]. There will be a debate on public expenditure and health that the Tory handout EU referendum Bill of the hon. care services, followed by a debate on Rail 2020. Further Member for Stockton South (James Wharton), which details will be given in the Official Report. At 7pm the reaches the House next Friday, is House will be asked to agree all outstanding estimates. “a transparently cynical attempt to combat the rise of UKIP and to try to appease Tory backbenchers”? [The details are as follows: The Health Committee, 11th report, 2012-13, Public expenditure on health and I see that the Leader of the House does not, but those care services, HC 651, and the Government response are not my words; they are the words of Stockton South (CM 8624); and the Transport Committee, 7th report, Tory Councillor Mark Chatburn. How long does the 2012-13, Rail 2020, and the Government response, 9th special Leader of the House think that this farcical misuse of report,2012-13, HC 1059.] the private Member’s Bill procedure by Tory Whips will carry on before the obsessive anti-Europeans realise THURSDAY 4JULY—Proceedings on the Supply and they have been sold a pup? Appropriation (Main Estimates) Bill, followed by general debate on NATO, followed by general debate on corporate This week, we have seen two alternative Queen’s structures and financial crime, followed by general debate Speeches put down on the Order Paper, one from the on the economic implications for the UK of an EU/US self-proclaimed Tory Taliban and one from Labour trade and investment agreement. The subjects for these MPs. They want women to lose their right to protection debates have been nominated by the Backbench Business if they are sexually harassed at work. We want respect Committee. for our armed forces. They want to scrap the BBC. We want fair prices on our railways. They want to bring FRIDAY 5JULY—Private Members’ Bills. back smoking indoors. We want to tackle the scourge of The provisional business for the week commencing zero-hours contracts. I am proud of our Labour Back 8 July will include: Benchers and the work they are doing, but can the MONDAY 8JULY—Remaining stages of the Financial Leader of the House tell us whether he can say the same Services (Banking Reform) Bill. about his? TUESDAY 9JULY—Consideration in Committee of the This alternative agenda kicks off next week with the Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. plan to hijack the August bank holiday and turn it into WEDNESDAY 10 JULY—Opposition half day [4th Allotted Margaret Thatcher day. [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear.”] Day]. There will be a debate on an Opposition motion, I can see that there is a lot of support for that among subject to be announced, followed by the Chairman of those on the Government Benches. Some might think Ways and Means is expected to name opposed private that they are too obsessed with this controversial and business for consideration. divisive figure from the past, but I do not think they are showing nearly enough zeal. Why celebrate her once a THURSDAY 11 JULY—Business to be nominated by the year—why not every week? Are they not missing an Backbench Business Committee, including a general opportunity? If they were real believers, would they not debate to mark the 25th anniversary of the Piper Alpha want Thursday, Friday, Thatcherday? I think she would disaster. be very disappointed in them. Perhaps we could name FRIDAY 5JULY—Private Members’ Bills. other days after current members of the Cabinet— I should also like to inform the House that the business 29 February could be named after the Deputy Prime in Westminster Hall for 4 and 11 July will be: Minister, because it gets noticed only once every four years and makes absolutely no difference to anything in THURSDAY 4JULY—Debate on the 8th report of the the meantime. International Development Select Committee on post-2015 development goals, followed by debate on 10th report Yesterday’s spending review underlined the scale of of the International Development Select Committee on this Chancellor’s economic failure, with living standards Pakistan. falling, the economy stuttering, borrowing up, long-term unemployment up, prices rising faster than wages and THURSDAY 11 JULY—Debate on social care reform for working age disabled people. bank lending down. He has not even managed to keep his prized triple A rating. He is presiding over the slowest recovery for more than 100 years, and businesses Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): I thank the Leader and families across the UK are paying the price. He can of the House for announcing next week’s business. put on a mockney accent and eat as many posh burgers We are approaching the 65th birthday of the NHS, so as he likes but, unlike millions of people up and down will the Leader of the House now admit the truth: that this country, he will never understand what it really feels in a reversal of their infamous airbrushed election like to be paying the price for his economic incompetence. 495 Business of the House27 JUNE 2013 Business of the House 496

With a public relations man as Prime Minister, this future in Europe. I and my hon. Friends support it, and Government are all too quick to issue press releases but I hope that hon. Members from all parties will do so too too incompetent to deliver them, so we need a debate next Friday. in Government time on Government incompetence. Given the Chancellor’s statement yesterday and the In their fourth year in office, only one of the 261 new Chief Secretary’s excellent statement today, I am not schools they promised in their “priority” building sure why the hon. Lady tried to rerun some of the programme has actually been built; only seven of the arguments from the Opposition that were demolished 576 infrastructure projects they promised have been by the Chief Secretary. If she wants to talk about future completed; and they have delivered a paltry 2,000 of the business, she can use the half day available to the 100,000 new homes they promised under the NewBuy Opposition on 10 July, and I would be delighted if they scheme. They said that they would set up a British chose to debate living standards in this country, given investment bank to help businesses grow, but no business that yesterday’s statement made it clear that a five-year has yet had help. They said that they would set up the council tax freeze would be available. I and many others Youth Contract to get young people back to work, but saw council tax double under Labour. Yesterday, the no one has used it. They promised councils £530 million Chancellor announced a three-year council tax freeze for superfast broadband, but so far they have paid and two further years available. out only £3 million. They said that they want more infrastructure spending, but yesterday revealed a £1 billion In addition, 24 million basic rate taxpayers will benefit cut in capital spending. They said that they would bring by nearly £700 from the coalition Government’s down borrowing, but it is £245 billion higher than they commitment to increase the personal tax allowance. planned. Is not the truth that they are posturing, not The consequence of not having to impose the fuel duty governing? They are spinning, not delivering. It is not escalator will be a saving of £40—13p a litre—for the just the Chancellor’s Byron burger stunt that was a average motorist. If, on the other hand, the hon. Lady sham—it is the whole Government. wants to debate the economy on 10 July, she will have the opportunity, among other things, to debate why we are in this situation: because they doubled the debt, Mr Lansley: I do so look forward to the shadow leaving us with the highest deficit in the OECD and Leader of the House’s response to the business statement, £157 billion of borrowing, which we have reduced by but mainly—normally—for the humour. On this occasion, one third to £108 billion this year. however, it fell short of her normal high standards, which is a pity—I look forward to future weeks. [Interruption.] It is all very well Opposition Members making gestures to suggest flatlining. The economy did The hon. Lady asked about NHS spending. The not flatline at the end of the Labour Government; it figures demonstrate that the coalition Government have fell, as new statistics tell us, by 7.2%. There was a 7.2% met their commitment to real-terms increases in NHS crash in the gross domestic product of this country. resources year on year. In addition, the Chancellor’s That is the basis of the crisis that we had to resolve statement yesterday confirmed that we will make provision when we came into office, and if the hon. Lady wants for a further real-terms increase in NHS resources in to have a debate on that, we will be very happy to 2015-16. As she must recognise, that contrasts with my accommodate her. predecessor as Health Secretary, the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), who regarded real-terms Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): increases for NHS resources as irresponsible—that was Will the Leader of the House consider allowing a the Labour party’s view. We are delivering on our debate on the time allocated to Departments for answering manifesto promises. The NHS could not have afforded oral questions in the House and, therefore, the time that Labour’s irresponsible policies. Members have to scrutinise Ministers and hold them to The hon. Lady asked about time on Report for the account? During such a debate, we could perhaps examine Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill. I direct why the Department for Transport, which has now been her to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor’s response given responsibility for some of the largest capital on Tuesday to my hon. Friend the Member for South expenditure in any Department in Government, answers Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom). We are clear questions for only 45 minutes. We could consider extending that we will welcome, and consider positively and that to a full hour, which would be the proper amount carefully, the Parliamentary Commission’s report and of time to allow for correct scrutiny. that, where necessary, we will legislate to bring its recommendations into force using that Bill. She must Mr Lansley: The total amount of time available is realise that the Government have allowed two days fixed, so if we give more to one Department, we have to on Report more often than did our predecessors, but take it away from another. We look carefully at the that that must be an exception rather than the rule. volume of questions to the various Departments—I In this instance, as always, we will consider the promise my right hon. Friend that we do this rigorously— requirement for debate on Report and make time available and we try to ensure that if a Department answers accordingly. questions for less than an hour, it is because it has I will tell the hon. Lady exactly what the European proportionately slightly fewer questions being asked Union (Referendum) Bill is about: it is about my hon. of it. Friend the Member for Stockton South (James Wharton) taking the lead and giving the people of this country a Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab): choice. There are Opposition Members who do not Will the Leader of the House find time for the House to share her unduly cynical view and recognise that it is a debate a report prepared in 2008 by senior police officers genuine attempt by Parliament to exercise its responsibility and said to have been given to Lord Leveson’s inquiry? and give people confidence that they can decide our It alleges sustained and persistent access to information 497 Business of the House27 JUNE 2013 Business of the House 498

[Mr Nicholas Brown] Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Can the Leader of the House explain why the Government have still not contained on the police computer and other organisations’ sent the royal charter on press regulation, which was databases that is supposed to be confidential but is in passed overwhelmingly by this House, to the Privy fact widely shared via improper methods. We understand Council? The motion on which we voted stipulated that that the report exists. Will the Leader of the House it should be sent in May. Can he reassure the House and confirm that that is so? Will he find time for us to debate the victims that it is not because the Government are it and, before we do so, may we see it? planning to do some kind of grubby backroom deal with elements of the press and to further water down Mr Lansley: The right hon. Gentleman will understand Lord Justice Leveson’s recommendations? that, without prior notice of his question, I have been unable to ask my colleagues about the issue that Mr Lansley: As I understand it, this is simply a matter he has raised, and I do not know the answer to his of the proper processes relating to the approval of a question about whether such a report exists. However, royal charter by the Privy Council being pursued, in he will have heard my right hon. Friend the Home circumstances in which other proposals are also being Secretary speaking at the Dispatch Box recently, setting presented. The Privy Council Office has gone through a out measures to promote the integrity of the police. process of securing the examination of other proposals I will ask her to respond to the right hon. Gentleman, as well, but these are matters of continuing discussion but I think he should take considerable reassurance among my colleagues and I will ensure that the House is from the wide range of measures that she announced updated as soon as we are clear about the timing. and that are being taken forward. They involve not only inquiries but proposals relating to the College Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): The Leader of the of Policing and the Independent Police Complaints House will not be surprised by my question, because Commission. this is the fifth time that I have asked for a debate on the Francis report. In fact, I am now going to insist on one, Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): May I reinforce if I may. I know that the Secretary of State for Health the request from the Opposition Front Bench for two believes that there should be a debate on that issue. It is days on Report for the Financial Services (Banking incredibly important for the national health service and Reform) Bill? I take it that the Leader of the House for the people affected by what happened in Mid Staffs rejected that request; at least, that is what I think I and by the Francis report. Will the Leader of the House heard. Some months ago, the Parliamentary Commission please provide time for a debate in Government time on on Banking Standards, which I chaired, recommended the Floor of the House before the recess? Giving excuses that the Report stage be taken in September, but that about approaching the Backbench Business Committee was rejected too. We have now produced a further is simply not good enough. We want a debate, and we report with more than 100 recommendations. Colleagues insist on it. from all over the House have told me that they would like an opportunity to consider those recommendations Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend and other Members and express their views on them before the Bill goes to have discussed this matter with me, and I have written the other place. Frankly, I simply cannot understand to my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy why the Government are dragging their feet on this, Lefroy) about it this week. I have said before, and I bearing in mind that they were the prime movers in the repeat today, that it is our expectation that we will creation of the commission. Nor can I understand their secure a debate on the Francis report. However, after decision, in view of the fact that the Enterprise and consultation with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of Regulatory Reform Bill, the Justice and Security Bill State, I think it makes sense for us to do so at the point and the Crime and Courts Bill all had two days on at which the Government are in a position to make their Report. full response to the Francis inquiry. My hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) will know that an interim Mr Lansley: The Government, and the House, are response has been made thus far. I cannot therefore grateful to my hon. Friend and his colleagues on the commit to a debate on the Francis report this side of the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards for summer recess, but I will continue to have discussions the work that they have done and the excellent report with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on that they have produced. That entirely justifies the when it will be the right time to do so. decision that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister made to proceed by way of a parliamentary commission Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): The Leader of the House rather than a public inquiry. That is what has enabled us will know that it has been a very long time since we had to reach this point at this time. I will not repeat all that I a debate in Government time on Zimbabwe. The situation said to the shadow Leader of the House, but we should there is now grave. Mugabe has decided arbitrarily to not regard two days on Report as anything other than call an election, without discussion and with very little the exception. We have allowed it more often than our of the global political agreement having been carried predecessors did, but it must be—[Interruption.] It is through. It is important that our Government should not a matter of priority. It is a matter of judging the be involved in putting pressure on South Africa in this necessity for debating time on Report in the light of the regard. Could we at the very least have a statement on amendments that have been tabled at that stage. I have this matter from the Foreign Secretary before the recess, announced the provisional business for the week after as this is an important issue for British people? next. We are making rapid progress with the Bill and it is important that we continue to do so, but I will of Mr Lansley: I am sure that many Members share the course always listen carefully to what my hon. Friend hon. Lady’s concern about the situation in Zimbabwe, the Member for Chichester (Mr Tyrie) has to say. as they have done for many years. I will of course talk to 499 Business of the House27 JUNE 2013 Business of the House 500 my hon. Friends at the Foreign and Commonwealth Chief Secretary in reply to my neighbour and good Office about what form of statement might be made, if friend the hon. Member for Wyre and Preston North appropriate, to update the House. In respect of a debate, (Mr Wallace), is it not time that the Chamber had a I should point out, perhaps not for the first time, that it full debate on the impact of shale gas? As you know, is clear as a consequence of the Wright Committee Mr Speaker, we are very generous people in Lancashire, reforms that, as significant areas are priorities for the but we want to get to the bottom of the appropriateness House to debate as Members feel strongly about them, of the compensation scheme, whether it will be underpinned time has been made available to the Backbench Business by statute and how we will ensure that the communities Committee to accommodate them. It is therefore to the most affected get the compensation they deserve. Backbench Business Committee that Members should make their representations. I am happy to stand at the Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes further good Dispatch Box and be the intermediary to enable that points on this. I cannot offer a debate at the moment, message to be heard by the Committee, but Members but he will be aware that Ministers from the Department should also make the case directly to the members of of Energy and Climate Change will be answering questions the Committee that there is a priority for such debates on 11 July. I will draw their attention to the points that to take place. my hon. Friend and other hon. Members have made. I have said that I cannot promise a debate immediately, Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) but hon. Members may seek opportunities elsewhere. I (Con): Yesterday, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor hope that when the time comes, we can take forward of the Exchequer announced that money would be put what I think are rather exciting announcements about into helping problem families. Plymouth has a significant the potential capacity for shale gas exploitation, while number of such families, and that number has stubbornly making sure that Members of this House are aware of remained high despite the very best work of Plymouth the benefits that will flow not only to consumers and city council and the various agencies. May we have a the economy, but to their constituents. debate on this matter, so that all of us who represent challenging inner-city areas can have a conversation Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): At 4.20 pm on 18 March, about it and share best practice? the Prime Minister, no less, stood up and urged this House to support a motion that would, as my right hon. Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend raises an important Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) said, call aspect of the positive announcements made by the on the royal charter on press regulation going to the Chancellor yesterday.There are now many local authorities Privy Council meeting in May. I understand that the —Plymouth clearly is one—that are making increasingly Government say that, bizarrely, the Prime Minister was effective use of the resources provided to the troubled beaten to it by the press barons. Will the Leader of the families programme. Some £448 million over three years House guarantee that it will now go to the July meeting? was announced in December 2011 by the Prime Minister, That is the will of this House and the House of Lords. and the extension now announced for funding in 2015-16 It was a deal between all party leaders and was supported enables a further expansion. I cannot offer time at the by everybody. If it is not going to go in July, will he moment, but my hon. Friend makes an interesting guarantee that he will write to me to explain why not? point. Many hon. Members may now feel that they are starting to understand the benefit of this programme Mr Lansley: I cannot make any such guarantee; it is and the opportunity that the extension might give, and not in my gift to do so. The will of the House was they are probably starting to think that it is time for expressed very plainly but it has not been possible to them to start sharing that knowledge in this House so comply in terms of timing. I will ensure that if not I people can see the progress we are making. then my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): May we Culture, Media and Sport writes to the hon. Gentleman. have a science-led debate on whether Ministers should be spending more time working out how to keep fossil Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): Yesterday’s fuels in the ground and less time squandering taxpayers’ announcement of new funding for joint health and money on tax breaks for shale gas that scientists say we social care was a welcome step towards the integration simply cannot afford to burn if the Government are to of health and social care, and I think all of us across the keep to their commitment to limit global warming to House would welcome that. Yet some short-sighted below 2°, a commitment that was reaffirmed at the G8 councils are closing down care home facilities without last week? providing proper alternatives. Labour-run Reading borough council wants to close the Arthur Clarke home in my Mr Lansley: I am not sure that I am likely to agree constituency, which will cause great distress to residents with the hon. Lady on the possible benefits of investment and families, risks breaking up a successful work force in shale gas exploitation, not least for hard-pressed and will end up putting greater stress on the local NHS. consumers who want to see the benefits in terms of Will my right hon. Friend support a debate to highlight energy prices, and for the security of energy supply in the issue of care home closures and their impact on the this country. She has had opportunities during discussions local communities they serve? on the Energy Bill to consider these matters and I am sure that there will be further opportunities in the Mr Lansley: The Liaison Committee has timetabled a future. debate on public expenditure and health care services on Tuesday. Clearly the issues that my hon. Friend Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con): raises are relevant to that debate and he may wish to Following on from the previous question, from press utilise that opportunity. I felt strongly that the Chancellor’s reports this morning and from the statement by the announcement yesterday was extremely important and 501 Business of the House27 JUNE 2013 Business of the House 502

[Mr Lansley] to take place today under the auspices of the Back Bench Business Committee, the first of which in particular welcome, and it followed the announcement made in is extremely heavily subscribed, so there is a premium, the spending review of 2010. The NHS has used its both in this session and subsequently, on brevity. resources, together with local authorities, in developing health and social care interactions very effectively, which Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): has demonstrated how these additional resources might Two weeks ago, the Leader of the House told me that make a much greater difference in terms of promoting the reason food bank use had trebled in the last year independence and preventive health care. was that the Government were now advertising in job centres that food banks were available. To explore this Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): further, may we have a debate to explain why, in Hull, On shale gas, we learned from BBC news this morning police and retailers have been reporting a serious increase that the Government were likely to announce a streamlined in food theft? Is it down to shops advertising food better? planning process to award drilling permits for shale gas, but we did not hear any more detail. We got one Mr Lansley: Oh well, sarcasm does not always read mumbled sentence in the statement from the Chief so well in Hansard. The hon. Lady will find that I said Secretary. For constituencies such as mine, this is a key this was one of the reasons—[Interruption.] One of the issue because we now have the threat of fracking for reasons for the increased take-up of food banks was shale gas close to two housing estates. May we have a that the previous Government did not allow relevant debate in Government time on Government plans for information and material to be made available in jobcentres, shale gas? We need to explore the reality of what the while this Government did. That is the simple fact of exploration and exploitation of shale gas will mean for the matter. communities before we are hurtled into a streamlined Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con): The last time I process, which apparently will be announced on 18 July, stood here and mentioned the bullying and financial the day the House rises. incompetence of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, I opened a veritable Pandora’s box of pain for Mr Lansley: I will not reiterate the points I have myself and those close to me. Does my right hon. Friend made, beyond saying that DECC Ministers will be here think we should have a debate on IPSA, as many colleagues on 11 July to answer questions. I know that they will on both sides of the House have offered me their want to keep the House fully updated. I hope that we support and would no doubt like to discuss reforms to might have an opportunity for a debate between now this unfettered regime, which continues to act like the and the summer recess, if not in Government time, then KGB of our civil service, breaks the law, ignores the in Back-Bench time or elsewhere. Data Protection Act and is now—I am personally pleased While I am at the dispatch Box, Mr Speaker, I said to report—in trouble with the Information Commissioner’s to my hon. Friend the Member for Reading East Office? (Mr Wilson) that there was a debate on public expenditure and health care services next Tuesday. I was wrong; it is Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend feels strongly about Wednesday. IPSA. I believe that a number of Members feel the same on the basis of their personal interactions, but there are Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): We rely absolutely others who have felt that since its establishment, the on the police and the intelligence and security services, service it provides has improved. Either way, I would who do a great job, but we must have confidence that say to my hon. Friend and the House that IPSA may they are acting within clear and agreed safeguards. This have statutory independence, but that does not mean has been hit by a series of revelations over the last few that it is without scrutiny. IPSA also has an informal weeks about GCHQ and the activities of undercover relationship with Members, and that should be used to policing. Will there be an opportunity for an open convey messages about IPSA’s operation. The Speaker’s debate in this House so that we can set out what we Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards believe are the parameters within which they should do Authority is a mechanism that can be used—I know their vital work? this as a member of it—to send messages to IPSA about how it does its work. Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend will recall that my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary came to the Dispatch Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): The Secretary Box when there had been previous press reports to give of State for Defence is meeting the Colombian Defence the assurances in relation to GCHQ that my hon. Secretary today to discuss our further military support Friend and others have sought. These matters continue for the Colombians. Given the murder of four innocent to be carefully considered inside Government. It is very protesters by the Colombian army and police over difficult sometimes to have debates about some of these recent days, may we have a debate in Government time matters, but the House should remember that now, about why we are considering giving military support to literally, following the Justice and Security Act 2013, we a Government whose Ministers, including the visiting now have the Intelligence and Security Committee of Defence Secretary, routinely name their political and Parliament, part of whose work is to ensure that precisely social opponents as “terrorists”, thereby effectively placing those sorts of safeguards and scrutiny are in place. a death sentence on them?

Several hon. Members rose— Mr Lansley: Beyond saying simply that I will ask my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence to Mr Speaker: Order. There are still several colleagues respond to the hon. Gentleman’s points, I had better trying to contribute and I am keen to accommodate not trespass any further for fear of demonstrating my them. I just remind the House that there are two debates ignorance. 503 Business of the House27 JUNE 2013 Business of the House 504

John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): This week, Wiltshire it receives income from advertisements displayed alongside police announced the relocation of Salisbury police these pages from many household-name companies. officers to a new building shared with Wiltshire council, The internet summit of the Secretary of State for Culture, thereby saving £500,000 and avoiding a 50% under- Media and Sport did not even address the question of occupancy. Will the Leader of the House make time for child protection on social media. When is she going to a debate on how to encourage effective collaboration come to the House to tell us how she is going to bring between local public agencies so as to optimise service this disgusting practice to an end? delivery and allow space in the outgoing building for the new Salisbury and South Wiltshire university technical Mr Lansley: The hon. Lady raises an issue of the college? greatest importance to Members, and indeed to people across the country and especially to parents. I will, Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes a good point. I of course, talk to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of know that work has been done previously both in Wiltshire State. I was not present at the summit meeting with and in neighbouring authorities to try to secure that internet companies, but I know that she is working very sort of collaboration between authorities in order to hard on these issues. I particularly welcome the additional deliver savings to all through the rationalisation of back support given to the Internet Watch Foundation, which offices and sometimes even of front-line services. Clearly, was previously based in my constituency and continues under this Government, local authorities have been taking to operate out of Cambridgeshire. I hope that we will be exceptional measures to try to deliver efficiency savings able to work together across the House to ensure that and maintain front-line services. What my hon. Friend we take every practical measure we can to reduce child describes provides a very good example of how, with the exploitation and abuse. new police and crime commissioners, we might find a greater impetus, and indeed a political impetus from elected commissioners, to try to make those savings happen. Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): Sixth-form colleges are a vital and highly successful part of our education system, Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Given but they are treated by the Government as orphans of that we have received news of an actual cut in planned the further education sector. This means that they face capital investment and a virtual strangling at birth of issues that school sixth forms do not. May we have a the Heseltine proposals, may we have a debate on the debate on sixth-form colleges, and which Department Government’s plans to stimulate jobs and growth in does the right hon. Gentleman think should respond to economies such as those in Birmingham and the west such a debate? midlands? Mr Lansley: I cannot promise an immediate debate, Mr Lansley: I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman although I must say that in due course such a debate and I listened to the same statements yesterday and would be useful and would be appreciated not least by today.What I heard, including today, was an announcement myself and my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge of £2 billion a year going into the single pot to support (Dr Huppert), in whose constituency are two very successful local enterprise partnerships across the country, and sixth-form colleges at Hills road and Long road. My that will accumulate into a substantial sum of money. hon. Friend the Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) makes This is a devolution of resources that never happened a very important point, and I hope that we can take it under the Government the hon. Gentleman supported. up at some point. If we had a debate specifically about Additionally, if I heard it correctly, £500 million extra is sixth-form college teaching up to A-level, it would be going into the regional growth fund, and we have all the responsibility of the Department for Education seen how that has made a big difference to projects. I to respond, but if the debate related specifically to am afraid that I do not recognise the hon. Gentleman’s apprenticeships and skills-based learning, it would engage premise; we are supporting manufacturing and growth the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. across the regions.

Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): There has Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) been a huge and resounding welcome throughout Wales (Lab): Given that the Health Secretary, the Work and of yesterday’s confirmation that the budget for Sianel Pensions Secretary, the Lord Chancellor, the Chancellor Pedwar Cymru or S4C is to be protected—demonstrating and even the Prime Minister seem to have a basic lack a commitment to Welsh language and culture by the of understanding of basic statistics, when will the Leader Prime Minister and the Department for Culture, Media of the House organise a training course for them, and and Sport, as well as the Wales Office. May we have a will it be a back-to-basics training course? debate on the importance of S4C to demonstrate its significance for Wales, the economy, the language and Mr Lansley: Since I do not accept the premise, I am the culture as well as to the Union? not planning to arrange such a thing. Mr Lansley: I cannot offer my hon. Friend the prospect of an immediate debate, but he used his opportunity at Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): It could business question last week, if I recall correctly, to raise be genuinely useful for Members of all parties to have a this issue. I am pleased that he has found that his debate on youth unemployment, including on apprentices, representations have been successful. in Rossendale and Darwen. Over the last 12 months, youth unemployment has dropped by 20%, and we have Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): Facebook tripled the number of people entering into apprenticeships is providing a meeting place for paedophiles by continuing since the general election. It would useful to explore to publish on its pages indecent images of children, and whether that supports our world-class manufacturing 505 Business of the House 27 JUNE 2013 506

[Jake Berry] Points of Order and what it says about the hugely successful 100 in 100 campaign, which we are now running for our second 12.41 pm year. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I draw to your Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes very important attention the written ministerial statement provided this points. I cannot offer an immediate debate, but I hope morning on flood insurance? There has been no opportunity that an opportunity will arise before too long, because to consider what is in that statement, and the Chief the 1 million apprenticeships created under this Government Secretary was not able to give full details in his statement are vital and are making an enormous difference. We earlier. My constituents are particularly concerned about have persistent, worrying and continuing levels of youth flood insurance and the provisional deal that seems to unemployment, which grew under the last Government have been reached by the Government and the insurance at a time when the economy was growing and even before industry. May I ask that the appropriate Minister be we hit the Labour-induced recession. This programme brought to the Dispatch Box to answer questions, so should, through traineeships alongside apprenticeships, that we can have effective scrutiny of the issue? help some of the young people who have found the greatest difficulty getting into work. That will also help Mr Speaker: The Leader of the House has signalled us to achieve the Government’s objectives clearly set out an interest in coming in on this issue. He is welcome to in the Queen’s Speech, which is to ensure that all young do so. people gain access to traineeships, apprenticeships or college-based education. The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Andrew Lansley): If I may say so, the hon. Member for Kingston Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): My upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) asked a question at constituent, 18-year-old Natalie McCusker, has been business questions, and she might have asked one that waiting more than 18 months for a lung transplant. I related to the issue she now raises. I would have been learned from a written answer on 15 May that waiting very happy to explain that, in addition to the written lists in the north-west are among the longest in the ministerial statement, following statements today there country. May we have a debate on selection and allocation will be the presentation of the Water Bill, which will policies for donated organs? As it is national transplant then be available for Members to see. As was made clear week in the week beginning 8 July, might that not be an earlier, my right hon. and hon. Friends at the Department apposite time to have the debate? of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs are today publishing a consultation that sets out the Government’s Mr Lansley: In this instance, it would be appropriate intentions and gives people an opportunity to respond. for the hon. Lady to approach the Backbench Business Committee or to seek an Adjournment debate, but I Mr Speaker: I thank the Leader of the House for have great sympathy with her comments. As I have in what he has said. In relation to the point of order made my constituency Papworth hospital, the largest hospital by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North, provider of heart and lung transplants in the country, I what I have to say is twofold. First, my understanding is am only too aware of the difficulties associated with that the motivation of the Government in issuing a accessing lung transplants and the availability of suitable written statement was that the time of the House would organs for donation. be heavily absorbed today by both the Chief Secretary’s statement and the business statement, and the Government Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Will were mindful of the fact that this is a Back-Bench the Leader of the House provide a debate on why nine business day. It is only fair to be clear about the motives in every 10 people being referred to the Government’s of the Government on the matter. Work programme are being so badly failed by the Secondly, in so far as the hon. Lady feels dissatisfied—and scheme? Last Friday, a constituent told me she was she is a persistent and indefatigable Member—I assure referred to a scam employer paying her cash in hand, her that she will find other opportunities for the matter and the police were called in to close the business down. to be debated. I do not know whether the Government Do we not need to debate in full the growing problems will decide to come forward with an oral statement with the Work programme? because of the intellectual force and personal charm of the representations that she has made today, but even if Mr Lansley: I cannot offer the hon. Gentleman a they are not so minded, the hon. Lady can apply for debate immediately, but he would find it helpful to look debates, and I have a hunch that she will do so. at the written ministerial statement made this morning by the Minister of State, Department for Work and Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): On a point of order, Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Fareham Mr Speaker. On 18 March you were very wise—[HON. (Mr Hoban). It set out the new statistics, such as that MEMBERS: “Always.”] And on many other occasions—you the Work programme has enabled 132,000 jobseekers to are always wise and wonderful, never curmudgeonly, escape long-term unemployment and find lasting work, and all the rest of it. But, on 18 March, you very wisely up from 9,000 at the end of March 2012. The hon. dug the Government out of a hole and enabled the Gentleman will see the impressive trajectory of improving whole House to come to a view on the future regulation performance under the Work programme. of the press, by allowing a manuscript amendment and a change to the order of business, without the normal rules of the House. That was a wise course of action to take. Since then, however, the declared will of the Prime 507 Points of Order 27 JUNE 2013 508

Minister, the Government, the Opposition and the whole House, which was for the matter to go to the Privy Backbench Business Council meeting in May, has not been implemented. You are, as I understand it, a Privy Counsellor, and I Legal Aid Reform suppose you could go to the Privy Council and insist [Relevant document: Uncorrected oral evidence taken that the matter be carried forward as swiftly as possible. before the Justice Committee on 11 June 2013, on price You might not want to go down that route, but I competitive tendering proposals in the Government’s wonder whether you could chase this matter up a little, Transforming Legal Aid consultation, HC 91-i.] because the whole House, the victims and all those who had their phones hacked would be profoundly disappointed Mr Speaker: May I remind the House that this debate if the matter did not go to the July meeting of the Privy is extremely heavily subscribed, as a consequence of Council, if legal advice were not provided, if no reason which I have had to impose a five-minute limit on were provided to the House, and if no action had been Back-Bench speeches. forthcoming when we came back in September. 12.48 pm Mr Speaker: My response to the hon. Gentleman’s point of order, of which I did not have advance notice—I Sarah Teather (Brent Central) (LD): I beg to move, make no complaint about that; I simply point out that That this House has considered legal aid reform. I did not have such notice—is twofold. First, I am a I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing Privy Counsellor, but as the hon. Gentleman well knows, the House to debate this very important issue. I am I do not call meetings of the Privy Council, which take hugely grateful to the many Members who have remained place perhaps from time to time. Secondly, I understand in the Chamber on a Thursday afternoon even though the hon. Gentleman’s point—I would be exceptionally the debate is not on a dividable motion. I offer my unwise if I did not—and if he is minded to pursue the apology for the fact that I did not ask for a full day’s matter, he will have multiple opportunities. I have a debate—clearly, there is much more desire to debate this sense that the hon. Gentleman understands at least as matter than I expected when I went before the Committee. well as I do that in campaigning quantity, persistence and, above all, repetition are at least as important as the As many in the House will know, the background to quality of the arguments themselves. the debate is that just after the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 came into force, Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): On a the Government began a new consultation, “Transforming point of order, Mr Speaker. You have ruled that there Legal Aid.” That consultation closed on 4 June, and the will be a tight limit on speeches today, because the Government are due to respond after the summer recess. debate is obviously oversubscribed. Do you not share The proposals were incredibly wide ranging and arguably my concern that the Secretary of State for Justice has more significant in some ways than those in the LASPO not even bothered to turn up for the debate? Act, but it looked as if the House would not get an opportunity to debate that consultation document before Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman the Government responded. As the Government are for his point of order. I had not noticed the absence of currently proposing secondary legislation for the matter, the Secretary of State. It would undoubtedly enrich the my concern is that we may not get an opportunity to House were he to be present, and there will be some have a debate before the legislation is introduced. sadness and disappointment if he is not present, but Because the proposals are so complex and wide-ranging, precisely which Ministers are fielded by the Government I think it important for us to get the details right, and I is, of course, a matter for the Government. therefore hope that the Minister will view the contributions of Members in all parts of the House as part of the consultation process. BILL PRESENTED I am grateful to the 31 members of all parties who supported my application to the Backbench Business WATER BILL Committee. I particularly thank the right hon. Member Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), who is a former legal aid Secretary Owen Paterson, supported by the Prime Minister, and the right hon. Member for Haltemprice Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Chancellor of and Howden (Mr Davis), who I know wants to speak the Exchequer, Secretary Vince Cable, Secretary David later about some of the constitutional implications of Jones and Richard Benyon, presented a Bill to make the proposed changes. provision about the water industry; about compensation The fact that so many organisations, including Mind for modification of licences to abstract water; about and Shelter, have contacted Members of Parliament main river maps; about records of waterworks; for the with briefings and queries demonstrates that it is not regulation of the water environment; about the provision just lawyers who are worried about these proposals. of flood insurance for household premises; about internal drainage boards; about Regional Flood and Coastal Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab): Is it Committees; and for connected purposes. not very disappointing that that the Justice Secretary Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on has not bothered to come to the House today? As Monday 1 July, and to be printed (Bill 82) with explanatory the hon. Lady has pointed out, the debate is very notes (Bill 82-EN). oversubscribed. More than 96,000 people signed the e-petition, and I believe that 96 Members of Parliament signed early-day motion 36. The Justice Secretary should be here. 509 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 510

Sarah Teather: I would have been delighted to see in the great scheme of things, is not very much in any the Justice Secretary, but I am, in fact, delighted that the case—the changes are likely to generate on-costs of Minister is present. I trust that he will listen carefully to about £30 million. what Members say today, and will relay it faithfully. Sarah Teather: I entirely agree with the hon. Lady. Sir Edward Garnier (Harborough) (Con): Like the She was referring, of course, to the changes in civil hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner), rather than criminal legal aid. I think that the costs are I am a member of the Bar, but unlike him I do not do likely to be significantly greater, especially if people any legal aid work. remain in detention or cannot be released from hospital. Does my hon. Friend agree that although the debate is important, it would not have had to take place had Jake Berry: Let me begin by drawing Members’ attention the Government chosen a better way in which to find to my declaration of interest, largely because I am their savings? It would have been better to continue with immensely proud of being a solicitor. What concerns the proposals for further privatisation of the prisons, me most is discrimination against small high street rather than attacking the legal aid system. practices such as Holt and Longworth and other small firms in my constituency, which, although they are the Sarah Teather: I certainly think that there are better backbone of our profession, will probably cease to exist. ways of finding savings. I hope that some Members will refer to the way in which we manage some of the Sarah Teather: I find it extremely worrying that the services that we privatise. The way in which contracts Government should pursue a line that would put small are managed is very important. The privatisation of the and medium-sized firms out of business, apparently interpretation and translation services, for example, appears deliberately. It flies in the face of everything they are to have led to greater delay and driven up costs. trying to do to promote growth and the high streets. I trust that the Minister has noted what the hon. Gentleman Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): I congratulate said. my hon. Friend wholeheartedly on securing a debate I hope that the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston that is clearly of interest to Members in all parts of the (Kate Green) will catch your eye later, Madam Deputy House. About two years ago, I too secured a debate on Speaker, because I know that she wishes to speak specifically legal aid, which I think she attended, and that prompted about issues relating to civil legal aid for prisoners. a great deal of interest as well. The issue is incredibly I shall not have time to speak about that myself, but broad, covering such matters as the residence test and, I think that it is important for it to be covered today. in the case of criminal legal aid, choice and diversity. Is it not important to ensure that small providers can Let me now say something about the residence test. continue to provide a service? As a former children’s Minister, I know that the proposed changes have particular implications for children, and as Chair of the all-party parliamentary group on refugees, Sarah Teather: I think there are critical issues involving I am very concerned about the impact on those who choice. seek sanctuary on our shores. Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) rose— The Bill that became the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishing of Offenders Act was highly contentious and Sarah Teather: I will struggle if I try to give way to fiercely debated in both Houses. Many were persuaded everyone. May I at least respond to one intervention of the need to save money, but all sought to ensure that before I accept another? the most vulnerable members of society would continue to have access to justice. Time and again, Ministers I intend to speak about the residence test rather than assured the House of Commons that when people’s about criminal legal aid, but I know that a number of lives or liberty were at stake, access to justice would be Members—including the hon. Member for Kingston preserved. However, the new residence test appears to upon Hull East (Karl Turner), who supported the undermine that directly. application to the Backbench Business Committee, and my hon. Friends the Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) Schedule 1 of the Act lists the categories that the and for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland)—want to Government sought to protect from cuts—groups whom refer to it specifically. they recognised to have a vital need for legal representation. Children who may be subject to care orders, children with special educational needs, victims of domestic violence, Caroline Lucas rose— victims of trafficking, asylum cases, those in immigration detention, those facing immediate homelessness, and Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con) rose— those with mental health issues are just a few of the very vulnerable groups that are identified. I am afraid that Sarah Teather: I will give way first to the hon. Lady people in all those categories may be denied legal aid if and then to the hon. Gentleman, but after that I must they fail to pass the residence test. make some progress. Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): Does Caroline Lucas: I wanted to intervene early in the the hon. Lady agree that what may happen—if it is not debate to crush the myth that this is about savings. It already happening—is that citizens advice bureaux and should be made absolutely clear that no money will law centres will become overloaded with casework, and be saved. Indeed, a barrister at Matrix Chambers has people in all the categories that she has listed will start suggested that, rather than saving £6 million—which, coming to elected Members of Parliament for help? 511 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 512

Sarah Teather: I think the hon. Gentleman is absolutely an opportunity to speak, but I also do not want to right. Those in what was originally a category of people speak for too long, and there are some points I want needing legal aid will still have problems after being to make on the residence test, so I shall continue denied it, and will arrive at all our surgeries seeking Were it not for the intervention of lawyers, many our help with problems that still exist and are still refugees would be homeless at the very time when the insurmountable. state has recognised they are absolutely in need of protection. They will also be unable to challenge other Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): I thank decisions, such as on special educational needs and the hon. Lady for giving way; she is being very generous. other forms of care. Young unaccompanied asylum Does she know whether the family of Jean Charles de seekers are particularly vulnerable. The Coram Children’s Menezes would have qualified for legal aid under the Legal Centre provided an example of a young woman new residence test? That is a very esoteric but important from Eritrea who was just 16. The Home Office accepted category which ought to be protected. that she required refugee status. However, after that happened, as is often the case, her local authority began Sarah Teather: I understand that the family of Jean disputing her age. Were it not for the intervention of Charles de Menezes would not have qualified under the lawyers, she would not then have been cared for by the new test. As the hon. Gentleman says, that was an local authority, as she had no chance of proving she had incredibly important case which had huge implications been resident in the UK for 12 months; in fact, she for policing policy, and it is for precisely that reason had not been resident in the UK for 12 months, and she that we need to be careful about identifying categories had certainly not been lawfully resident in the UK for of this kind. 12 months. A number of Members have said that the changes Those who struggle to make a claim for asylum will not save money. That, I think, is the point. The initially are frequently particularly vulnerable to wrong Government are apparently not seeking to save money decisions being made. I include in that category young with the changes in the residence test; they say that their people, those who have experienced sexual violence, purpose is to shore up public confidence in the legal aid those who are claiming asylum on grounds of sexual system. However, I do not think that the public will orientation and those who have been tortured. Many of continue to have confidence in a system that denies access these people fail to disclose that in their initial interviews. in certain cases, including the one that was referred to It is only on subsequent fresh applications for asylum by the hon. Gentleman. that the right decision is made, because all the information Particularly unjust, in my view, is the position of is provided. Once that fresh application is accepted, those who, having gained refugee status, will be forced they become eligible for legal aid. However, they need a to wait 12 months before becoming eligible for legal aid. lawyer to put in an application, so these people find I think it extremely unlikely that we would be complying themselves in a position of not being able to gain the with article 16 of the Geneva convention if we proceeded status they deserve. Similarly, victims of human trafficking with that proposal. Many of the people involved are very may need to challenge the identification given to them. vulnerable, and there is frequently a gap in communication Without access to legal aid, they are unable to do that. between the Home Office and those who should be Perhaps the most bizarre aspect of this residence test seeking care for them in the form of housing or benefits. is not about asylum seekers, but about British-born Many would face a period of homelessness if lawyers children. British-born children under the age of one will did not intervene to ensure that local authorities do fail a residence test. I do not know whether Ministers their duty. did not communicate with the Department for Education, but it is common practice in care proceedings that a child will be allocated a solicitor. That is why certain Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): Will the hon. Lady categories of children were listed at the back of schedule give way? 1 to LASPO. Examples of other kinds of case that would be excluded are British citizens who from time Sarah Teather: I will, but I am conscious that I am to time get wrongly deported—I am afraid that does taking up the time of others who wish to speak. happen—and high-profile cases such as that mentioned a few moments ago. I am aware that my right hon. Friend Keith Vaz: I am most grateful to the hon. Lady, who the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) has been extremely generous in giving way. She is right wishes to raise Baha Mousa’s case and the case of about immigration, which has become more complex. Afghani interpreters. One of the reasons for opposing these proposals is that Perhaps the most invidious and troubling cases, however, the few remaining specialist legal aid immigration lawyers are those involving people in immigration detention. will disappear if they are accepted. That, too, was specifically included in LASPO because it involved the state depriving people of their liberty. Sarah Teather: I fear losing specialists in immigration They must instigate their own proceedings. We often law. I already see constituents who are consulting lawyers have indefinite detention for these people; their case who are, I am afraid to say, less than qualified to do the does not automatically review, yet they will not be job, and that is what creates many of the delays and bad eligible for legal aid, because they are not lawfully here. decisions in the first place. The chief inspector of prisons has previously expressed concerns about that group, and this makes it significantly Several hon. Members rose— worse. The argument Ministers have offered to me is that I Sarah Teather: I have tried to take as many interventions should not concern myself with this group because as possible, as I know that some Members will not get exceptional funding is in place to support them. I want 513 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 514

[Sarah Teather] that occasion, the House met for three days, there was huge debate, we sat through the night, and then the to debunk that myth right away. First, the application House was able to vote. It is a travesty that the Secretary process for exceptional funding is exceptionally complicated; of State is not present, and that the Government seek to it is extremely difficult to provide the required evidence make such a profound change in our country by secondary to the Legal Aid Agency, which is why very few people legislation. That is why I urge Members to follow me have applied, and people need a lawyer to be able to fill into the No Lobby after the conclusion of this general in the form. I understand that 100 cases have been debate. accepted by the LAA, and the Public Law Project has told us it knew of just one case that had been accepted. John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): Does Secondly, exceptional funding exists for cases outside the right hon. Gentleman agree that the removal of the scope of LASPO, yet all the cases I have detailed are people’s choice of advocate is a very profound change? within its scope, but are outside that of the residence test. Thirdly, there is no procedure for urgent cases. Mr Lammy: It is absolutely the case that in our That is not much good for people who may have a system the choice of lawyer is fundamental and essential. pressing problem with their housing or who are seeking In fact every democratic country we can think of enables a non-molestation order as a result of domestic violence. that choice. That this Government should seek now to Finally, there is no exemption for those with no capacity say that someone facing criminal charges cannot choose, to litigate. and therefore have confidence in, the person to be The residence test is likely to be seriously detrimental charged with preserving their liberty is a huge exception to many of the most vulnerable groups that we have to the democratic system we have sought to preserve sought to protect during previous cuts to legal aid. I for so long. Of course it will lead to huge miscarriages want to remind the Minister—as one former Minister of justice. to a current Minister—that being judicially reviewed is annoying. I remember that; it is very frustrating when Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con): I we are taken to court, but we have to be humble enough am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving to accept that Ministers, and others in public authorities, way and I hope he gets extra time for taking a second sometimes make the wrong decisions, and we also have intervention. I hear what he has to say, but does he to be man enough to accept the risk that some of the agree that whoever was in power at the moment, having things people will JR us about may not seem to be to make difficult choices, would almost certainly have particularly significant. That is what we need in a free to look at what is one of the most generous legal aid society; that is the price we pay for making sure citizens systems in the world and make savings to that budget? are able to hold the state to account and for preventing Does he agree that the problem is not so much the overbearing state power from interfering with people’s principle of the savings but the way that this is being right to live in the way they choose. done and the fact that there needs to be consultation on Several hon. Members rose— a number of specific points that, to be fair, the Government have agreed to reconsider? Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. [Interruption.] Mr Lammy, it is not a good idea to Mr Lammy: The hon. Gentleman is right. It is totally be on the move in the Chamber when one wishes to be unacceptable that the Government have sought to rush called to speak. It is not a good way to try to catch the this measure through after a speedy consultation that Speaker’s eye. lasted less than two months. It is wrong that there should not be a vote in the House and it is wrong to 1.6 pm caricature previous changes to legal aid as having any Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): I am very relationship with these changes. When I was legal aid grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker. I seek your forgiveness Minister, changes were made to scope in personal injury for being on the move, but I was consulting with colleagues in an attempt to take out those who were caught up in about whether, given the importance of this debate, a speeding or traffic cases in the legal aid system. We vote of this House might be required, and whether I introduced fixed fees to maintain costs. We introduced could invite colleagues to join me in the No Lobby after online and phone systems for free legal advice to limit this debate. That would, of course, require tellers. costs. Those were the sorts of changes we introduced; Why is this so important? It is important because the we did not attempt to charge and make an attack on Secretary of State has caricatured this debate as being judicial review. solely about producers and suppliers of legal services. Judicial review is so important. Most people in this He has sought to suggest that it is about fat-cat lawyers country feel that public authorities are benign until they and their fees. He also sought to suggest that this have a disabled child, or one with special needs, and follows in a long line of reform to legal aid over the last seek to challenge the local authority or the school, until 10 years and that ultimately it is about saving £220 million they have an elderly relative in a care home and abuse of taxpayers’ money. I think it is hugely important that goes on in that care home, or until they live in the path Members are able to assert that that is not the case. of High Speed 2 or Crossrail. There are people in this These are profound changes that would completely country who would seek to use judicial review and it is a unsettle our constitutional arrangement, which begins travesty that this Government would run a coach and with Magna Carta, where it was said we should not sell horses through it for £6 million. justice, deny justice or delay justice to anyone. When The hon. Member for North West Norfolk this House last met to discuss issues of such importance, (Mr Bellingham) mentioned savings and savings can be the subject was the suspension of habeas corpus. On made in other ways. Tagging a defendant costs £13.41 in 515 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 516

Britain, but £1.22 in America. Let us find the savings Even then, the Labour Government were so frightened through cheaper procurement. Let us find the savings in of initiating the cuts that they organised them to take the court system. Let us not rip up a democratic, effect after the general election. That was the position constitutional system that we have had for so many that this Administration inherited and one of the main years and that has served us well. reasons why we decided to reform civil legal aid first to We have heard that the parents of Jean Charles de allow the criminal legal aid market to settle after Labour’s Menezes would not have received legal aid under the cuts. changes being made to the residence system. In fact, after these changes, babies in our care system aged Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I have under one would not get legal aid, even though children no argument about whether the savings should be made, sometimes need access to it. There are many headlines but why does the hon. Gentleman think it is right to at the moment about Jimmy Mubenga, a young man have a widespread attack on legal aid when the chair of who lost his life in a deportation case. His family would the Criminal Bar Association has said that banking not get legal aid. Is that really the kind of country we fraud cases are taking up 45% of the legal aid budget? want to live in? Is that what we want to arm our Foreign Secretaries with when they are trying to speak powerfully Mr Djanogly: They do. The consultation considers to foreign Governments who seek to oppress their citizens? very high cost cases and identifies them as a specific It cannot be, so I ask the Department to think again area that needs to be looked at. I agree with that. about the decision and to think very hard about the During debates on what is now the Legal Aid, Sentencing changes it is attempting to railroad through Parliament. and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, Labour spokesmen Those are the reasons it is important that we have the were saying that we should be looking at making savings opportunity to vote. It is deeply concerning that it has by contracting criminal legal aid rather than touching taken senior Back Benchers going to the Backbench civil legal aid. Now it seems that they have made another Business Committee to bring this discussion to the U-turn and are saying that they do not want criminal House in the first place. I cannot think of an occasion contracting at all. The position of Labour Members is in the past few years when that has happened on such a not only inconsistent but deeply irresponsible, because major issue. I ask the Secretary of State to be mindful of they still acknowledge the need for legal aid savings but the petition signed by thousands of people because do not have a clue how to deliver them in practice. That they, too, are concerned about the situation. is not the position of a party that can be serious about The caricature that implies that those who are caught government. up in the criminal system are thick and therefore do not need a choice of lawyer is a disgrace coming from a Jake Berry: The criminal legal aid solicitors to whom Secretary of State for Justice. For legal aid lawyers to be I have spoken in my constituency have said that they caricatured as fat cats when their average salary is less would prefer a further cut in their rate to the structural than that of nurses and teachers in this country and changes the Government are talking about, because when we are talking about high street firms in Bristol, those structural changes mean that a solicitor in Rawtenstall Swindon and Brixton—places as different as that—is has to travel to Blackpool to go to the police station. unacceptable. This is not about the producer, but about that is completely unsustainable. the citizen and the consumer. It is about hard-fought battles that have taken place in this Chamber over many Mr Djanogly: Further cuts in the rate are the easy years. I ask the Government and hon. Members to join option. The market is out of sync with the legal profession me in the No Lobby after the debate. and it needs reform. My theory is that Labour’s contracting proposals 1.14 pm failed because they not only succumbed to the reactionary Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con): I declare wing of the legal profession but shied from the bottom any interest I might have as a practising solicitor, although line facts of criminal legal aid contracting, which are not one who has ever done any legal aid paid work. that in order to get efficiencies and savings, contracting The Government have given a very clear explanation will always involve fewer but larger practices operating of how, under any reckoning, this country spends by far over a larger area. If the market is to be sustainable, the most of any in the world on legal aid and will still do there must be fewer firms each receiving a larger slice of so after these proposed savings, which have to be made the remaining pie. in these times of tough spending decisions. Although I support the Government’s consultation Let us first acknowledge that the difficulties in providing and the contracting proposals in general, my personal criminal legal aid are not new. Indeed looking through view is that we are missing an opportunity radically to my old notes for the debate, I found my question asking restructure the market and bring it into line with modern a Justice Minister in the previous Labour Administration practice norms. At the core of that lies the need to what he was going to do about the then crisis, with consider the type of organisation that can bid and how barristers going on strike, some 25% of criminal law they are paid. The historic position in England and firms having closed shop in the previous four years and Wales is that the client instructs a solicitor and then, rates having been frozen for a decade. The then Labour particularly for more complicated advocacy, the solicitor Government acknowledged that the system was employs a barrister. That involves two fees and I would unsustainable and prepared, but subsequently failed, to strongly advocate moving to a single fee. introduce contracts for criminal legal aid tendering. Admitting their inability to reform the system, they Karl Turner: I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman then went for the relatively easy route of making savings has read the consultation document. The proposals are through further rate cuts. very different from what the previous Government proposed 517 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 518

[Karl Turner] the first not to have been qualified in five years, and I congratulate the MOJ on that achievement. Significant under best value tender. There are major constitutional savings have since been made by abolishing the LSC differences in these proposals that will ruin the entire and reintegrating legal aid into the MOJ. criminal justice system.

Mr Djanogly: The previous Government were considering 1.22 pm contracting, as were Labour Front Benchers during this Parliament. We need to appreciate that the Legal Services Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): As the Act 2007, brought in by the previous Government with founding chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Conservative support, has transformed the potential for legal aid, I am pleased that Back-Benchers have organised legal service provision. To cut a long story short, there is an opportunity for us to discuss this important issue at now no reason why solicitors and barristers should not this time and to touch on not just the “Transforming go into partnership together, or indeed, with non-legal Legal Aid” agenda but the impact of the Legal Aid, organisations, via alternative business structures. There Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, is no reason why barristers should not take instructions much of which came into effect this spring. direct from the client nor any reason why barristers As we know, the predominantly civil legal aid cuts should not themselves bid for contracts and employ that have come into effect have taken out of scope solicitors. In practice, there have been blockers to this swathes of provision for benefits, social welfare and kind of progress, not least a barrister regulator that large areas of housing and employment. It has happened seems unable to see the writing on the wall for its own at the same time as local authorities are struggling with profession. a 30%-plus reduction in their own funding, which has If I seem radical, I am explaining a scenario that added to the squeeze on advice services. That impact is would seem more or less natural to most Commonwealth being felt up and down the country. Just this week, we common law countries. were sorry to hear the news that Birmingham law centre was the first major urban law centre to go under. I am struggling to see whether we can sustain Paddington Mr Bellingham: On a point of order, Madam Deputy law centre, the second oldest law centre in the country, Speaker. I am sorry, but the right hon. Member for which has been hit by legal aid reductions and the loss Tottenham (Mr Lammy) is on the move again. Surely of grant funding. Shelter, a major housing charity, has right hon. and hon. Members should always stay in their seen its advice services decimated as a result of cuts. seat and listen to the speech immediately after their contribution. Mr Jim Cunningham: Does my hon. Friend agree that Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): The not only will citizens advice centres be affected, with courtesies of the House are that a speaker should people denied public justice, but small law firms will remain for the next two speakers, having contributed to go out of business and 400 big companies will have a the debate. It is regrettable. I did not see him move monopoly? again, but I am sure that someone from the Opposition Benches will ensure that he returns quickly to hear the Ms Buck: My hon. Friend is correct. This is something debate. Sorry for the interruption, Mr Djanogly. that we will see in terms of the “Transforming Legal Aid” agenda. We are seeing advice deserts emerging. We Mr Djanogly: To retain the two-fee structure sends are seeing the concentration of services in larger providers the wrong message either that the outdated current and, critically, we are seeing the loss of specialist services, system can adapt to contracting or that it will soon be which are so important. As is often the case with this reversed and be back to inefficient business as usual. In Government, we are finding that cuts—the £350 million the longer term both are unsustainable. taken off the legal services budget—do not always The legal profession, from mediaeval times, has always mean savings. As we were warned, we are already seeing been against change. Most significant legal reforms an increase in the number of litigants in person appearing emanate from Parliament. Our job is to create a marketplace in court. The Bar and judges warned that it would lead for the future, not for the past. I support the Government’s to additional costs. proposals, but I recommend that we look again at A number of changes that have impacted on housing bringing in a single-fee structure. Yes, that will force need have led to an 86% rise in homelessness acceptances significant changes to criminal legal practice, but in the in my local authority alone. Homelessness decisions longer term it will provide a more flexible, efficient and remain within scope of LASPO, but debt and welfare sustainable platform for criminal legal aid provision. advice provision does not and those issues are what lead I end by noting that it was not just the Labour people to the brink of homelessness in the first place. Government’s inability to reform that constituted their As a result of the loss of advice services and the failure but their shocking inability effectively to process dramatic increase in homelessness, we are seeing extra legal aid payments and to monitor fraud and auditing costs falling on local authorities and wiping out a systems. In all seriousness, when I started at the Ministry number of the savings. of Justice, the previous Minister had hardly been on It was interesting to see in the comprehensive spending speaking terms with the Legal Services Commission, review statement yesterday further resources being directed and the delays and inefficiencies of the processing of to the troubled families programme. It is slightly ironic claims, including criminal claims, were very serious that we are rightly investing more in troubled families, indeed. Much of the processing has now been dramatically knowing that debt and arrears are at the heart of the improved. The accounts published only this week are problems that they seek to overcome. 519 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 520

Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) 1.29 pm (Lab): My hon. Friend is making a powerful argument. Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I rise to speak as a member In my area, since April the bedroom tax has increased of the Public Accounts Committee who is concerned arrears in the city already by £750,000, pushing more about the effectiveness of the proposed measures, and families into misery and making them more in need of as a constituency MP who is concerned about access to the very advice to which she refers. justice for my constituents. Ms Buck: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is We are told we have the most expensive system in the another excellent example. I am sure that colleagues will world, but only last year the National Audit Office have examples from a number of areas of service and found that the cost of our system was average, after from all over the country. accounting for variances in the role of the civil service and the judiciary, and the costs have been reduced since On the “Transforming Legal Aid” agenda, while it is that finding. As a previous speaker said, 48% of our true that a Labour Government would have faced difficult criminal legal aid costs are for 1% of cases, so why does and not necessarily popular choices about the justice the Ministry of Justice not look specifically at those system and legal aid, one of the elements that we regard cases in order to save money? as critical is maintenance of the ability for the accused to have a choice of lawyers. There is a risk that the Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): proposed changes will lead to a loss of specialist services One of the misunderstandings in the mind of the public and quality services driven by choice, and potentially to is that legal aid is a principal cost. In fact, our legal miscarriages of justice. system costs half that of the Swiss and three quarters of I want to share with the House a letter I received the system in the other major European countries, and from one of my constituents in the run-up to today’s it delivers better results. Surely we should be proud of debate. It is from Anne Maguire, one of the Maguire that? Seven convicted in 1975 of possession of explosives together with her husband, two teenage sons, brother Ian Swales: I am proud of that, and I am surprised by and brother-in-law and a family friend. She received a some of the comments from Front Benchers that seem sentence of 14 years. She and all her relatives and friend to contradict what the right hon. Gentleman just said. were innocent and their convictions were quashed by We also have a system in which tariffs vary widely the Court of Appeal in 1992. She says: across the country, sometimes paying twice as much for “Over many years, our solicitor Alastair Logan worked tirelessly the same activity. Why does the Ministry of Justice not without payment to overturn our wrongful convictions. Without look into that? We often criticise the Ministry for not his diligence and painstaking work, it’s no exaggeration that the piloting its ideas, but they have tested this one by setting miscarriage of justice we suffered would never have been put up five public defender services. They are proving to be right. Under the government’s terrible proposals, solicitors’ firms such as Alastair’s would disappear to be replaced by a reduced three to four times as expensive as present local number of large commercial operations with no interest in helping arrangements, and the one near me in Middlesbrough innocent prisoners. has already closed down. What has the Ministry learned Many more miscarriages of justice will occur if plans to award and why is it planning to protect those offices from legal aid contracts to the cheapest commercial bidders such as the competitive tendering? haulage company Eddie Stobart and to remove the ancient right of accused persons to choose their own lawyer are implemented. Mr Bellingham: The Crown Prosecution Service now I hope you’ll attend the debate on Thursday”. has a lot of in-house lawyers, who are expensive and I am pleased to do that but also to join my colleagues in who have pensions, significant overheads and so on. the vote. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that going back to I would love to be able to talk about the judicial instructing the independent Bar, as used to happen, review proposals and the accountability of public services would result in savings and that the MOJ should look at that will be lost, but I want finally to touch on the issue that quite urgently? of residency. As my parliamentary neighbour, the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather) has pointed Ian Swales: The hon. Gentleman has made his point out, urban constituencies such as ours with large migrant fluently. I am not a lawyer and am unable to comment populations are most likely to feel the impact of the new on those details, but I am sure that Ministers heard his residency qualifications. Those qualifications will have point. a particularly severe impact on children. I am indebted Looking at the effect on justice first, the evidence to a law company in my constituency called Just for from the USA, where the MOJ’s planned approach is Kids Law, which has raised with me its fears about the already in place, will give the public little comfort. Even residency qualifications and the extent to which they people who are charged with the most serious crimes, will hit trafficked children and the children and families including murder, are given low-cost lawyers and scant of victims of domestic violence, some of whom have attention. Among the most serious duties a Government come here on their husband’s visa. It will hit children can have are to prevent people from dying in hospital and families of people who have come here to work in and to prevent them from being wrongfully imprisoned. domestic service. This is something I am familiar with Why do we believe so strongly in choice in the first case in my constituency and have many problems with. while seeking to eliminate it in the second? Only through Finally, it will hit the babies and small children of choice can standards be maintained and competitive British citizens who have been abroad and returned to pressures take effect. Yesterday, the Chancellor said: this country, who will lose their qualification. That is a “Our philosophy is simple: trust people to make their own serious impact on the rights of children. I believe the decisions and they will usually make better decisions.”—[Official measures must be resisted and look forward to joining Report, 26 June 2013; Vol. 565, c. 306.] colleagues in voting against them this afternoon. I urge the Minister to follow that approach. 521 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 522

[Ian Swales] are on bail; and, if they are found guilty, transporting them to a G4S prison—oh, and it is quite possible that I also urge the Minister to look carefully at the when they are released, G4S will be in charge of their financial incentives in the proposed contracts. As we on rehabilitation. The potential perverse incentives in that the Public Accounts Committee know, there is touching chain are mind-boggling. I urge the Ministry of Justice faith in most Departments that their private sector to ensure that its contract packages meet its stated aims. partners will “do the right thing”. They will—but it will The Ministry’s record on contracting is appalling. How be the right thing to maximise their profits. It beggars will it be different this time? believe that firms might get the same fee for a quick I end with two questions for the Minister. First, if he guilty plea as they get for a trial lasting days or even or a member of his family were arrested, would he be weeks. I know that the Secretary of State is a great happy with the new arrangements? Secondly, has he believer in payment by results, but is he really looking heard the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield for justice through short trials with few witnesses, or for (Mr Mitchell) express delight that he has just found the innocent, vulnerable people to be locked up through a cheapest lawyer to fight his case against the Metropolitan quick guilty plea? That is what his system will encourage. police? I doubt it. Equal access to justice is a cornerstone of our society. The Minister has a lot to do to convince Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): Does my this House that that remains an objective of his Department hon. Friend acknowledge the serious concern that there and that it is competent to deliver it. will be an incentive for legal representatives to encourage clients to plead guilty, because the fee will be the same? That is deeply worrying. 1.37 pm Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab): Prior Ian Swales: I agree with my hon. Friend. I repeat: to my election to this House, I worked as a criminal private companies will seek to maximise their profits. I barrister from my local chambers in Hull, and before advise anyone who doubts that to check the financial that, I was a criminal solicitor. I was never a fat cat incentives in the GP out-of-hours contracts and then lawyer—in fact, my waistline has increased only since look at what has happened to the number of people coming to this place. attending hospital accident and emergency centres. I will now deal with contracting. This time last week, Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): I am pleased that I was in Westminster Hall discussing the court translation my hon. Friend is not a fat cat, but could he say whether services debacle—a true horror story. The response fat cat lawyers actually attend police stations at 2 o’clock from the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. in the morning? Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), showed breathtaking complacency about the overall Karl Turner: My hon. Friend makes a good point. As effect on and cost to the courts system. She even seemed far as I know, it is very unusual for a partner in the firm to be content with a present failure rate that is five times to come out in the early hours of the morning. The greater than the one contracted for. In addition, as has important point is this: a solicitor who attends at a been noted, early results coming in on the new civil legal police station in the middle of the night is often dealing aid arrangements show more court cases, not fewer, and with extremely serious allegations—sometimes allegations many cases doubling in length owing to inadequate of murder. I have been in that position on a number of representation. Again, I ask whether the Ministry is occasions, representing clients who are alleged to have counting the full costs. committed murder. The solicitor is there on his or her The most lucrative business in this country now seems own, whereas the police have advice from the CPS and to be winning Government bidding rounds, then— many officers to assist them. The solicitor is facing all ideally—selling the contract for a quick profit, as we that pressure and is not being paid properly, even under saw with the court translation service, or taking fat fees the current arrangements, for his or her expertise. and getting other people to do the work, as we see in the Of course we accept that in these straitened economic Work programme. times, cuts have to be made to Departments across the board, but these plans are massively ill conceived. They Mr D Raab: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? will, in my respectful submission, irretrievably damage the criminal justice system. I will focus my remarks on Ian Swales: I am running out of time. price competitive tendering. The Ministry has touching faith that many groups of lawyers will come together to bid; in fact, it will be Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): Can largely the same magic circle of outsourcers, who hover the hon. Gentleman help with this point, then? If like vultures around the award of almost every public irretrievable damage is done to the criminal justice contract—with the rumoured addition this time of a system by any change to legal aid, why was it that the supermarket and a haulage company. One company right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw), when likely to win work, of course, is G4S, with which the Lord Chancellor, said: Secretary of State will be familiar from his previous job. “I hope that everyone…will accept that the growth of spending G4S’s success in winning work in this sector raises the on legal aid seen in the early part of the decade and before is no spectre that a person could be arrested, then have G4S longer sustainable”? legally representing them at the police station; providing the civilian staff processing them there; transporting Karl Turner: It is very disappointing, but I suspect them to court; representing them there; owning the the hon. Gentleman has not read the consultation court in which that person is tried; tagging them if they document. 523 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 524

I shall go on to deal with price competitive tendering, 1.45 pm but first let me try and bust a myth. There seems to be a suggestion that the Labour Government were particularly George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con): As there generous to criminal lawyers. We were not. Criminal are only five minutes available to me, I hope hon. lawyers have sustained cuts to fees from successive Members will understand that my arguments are unlikely Governments. The current proposals are far reaching to be in any great detail, and I will not take any and, if they go through, they will be horrifically damaging interventions. I should point out that I am a complete to the criminal justice system. PCT will inevitably lead outsider to the issue, having no legal qualifications at to the market being dominated by the big multinationals— all. the usual suspects—G4S, Serco, Capita, and probably I note the contribution of the hon. Member for the new entrants to the market who have absolutely no Redcar (Ian Swales). His tract on the procession of G4S experience, Stobart. throughout the legal system was particularly persuasive. The plans are also unconstitutional. They dismiss the It is not something that had occurred to me before, but I notion that an accused might have the right to choose a think it is a cause for real and serious worry. solicitor. The cavalier ignorance of the Lord Chancellor At the heart of the Government’s proposals lies the was exposed when he remarked: question of what is the best method of delivering savings “I don’t believe that most people who find themselves in our without threatening the quality of justice dispensed. criminal justice system are great connoisseurs of legal skills.” That is the question that exercises us today. Oral evidence Not only does he dismiss everyone requiring legal advice given to the Justice Committee on 11 June made plain as a criminal before they have even been charged or had very real concerns from the legal profession about the a trial, but he apparently has the naiveté to think that proposals. Quality was high among those concerns for those who come face to face with the criminal justice completely understandable reasons, but it must be a system are not capable of judging the competence of little worrying that some of the organisations representing their own lawyers. This is the “too thick to pick” point. the profession are refusing to engage with the process of The notion is completely contrary to attitudes applied designing the quality thresholds with which the contracts to, say, health services in this country or education, will be let. I understand their concerns and I understand where choice is deemed essential. that these are fundamentals changes being mooted, but I hope that at some stage those organisations will reconsider The proposals look to implement yet another changing their position. It seems to me that it is not incompatible fee structure. Fees would be cut by 17.5%, on top of the to be implacably opposed to the changes, but still to 2011 reduction of 10%. Firms that successfully bid for co-operate with the design. Surely to do so ensures that, PCT will have demonstrated that they can provide the should the argument be lost, the system will be as good services at the cheapest possible rate. This means that as it can possibly be. advice will probably be provided by less qualified people supervised, perhaps, by a single lawyer. The “stack it The Justice Committee’s session also threw up evidence high, sell it cheap” mentality will reduce the criminal from the profession that there were other areas where it justice system to a sausage factory where the quantity felt that savings could be made, and should be made, of cases trumps the quality of the service provided first. Principal among these were the court system, and every time. persuasive evidence was given that there are huge costs The proposals specify this in paragraph 23, suggesting within the court system driven by other agencies and that there is no need to be concerned about the quality factors outwith the control of those providing legal of provision because work shall not be representation. I have some sympathy with the argument that says that to reform the cost of representation “above the acceptable level specified by the LAA”— without dealing with those factors misidentifies at least the Legal Aid Agency. The plans also perversely propose some of the source of the expense incurred. the same fee to be paid, whether the case is resolved by way of a guilty plea or contested at trial. There is strong Michael Turner, the Chairman of the Criminal Bar, concern that this will inevitably lead to undue pressure gave in his evidence three compelling examples of how being put on a defendant to plead guilty when in fact fees can escalate owing to factors wholly outside the they have a defence. control of those representing defendants. Although I can see that the pressing need to make savings and the The proposals will change the sort of people coming time scale that might be involved in reforming the court into the profession. This is not a plea for so-called the system create difficulty for the Minister, I would like to fat cat lawyers, but as the eminent barrister John Cooper hear from him about any plans that are in hand to deal QC put it to me yesterday, with these issues. “This is recognition, before it’s too late, that if the proposals go through we will be complicit in excluding many young people The witnesses also made clear their concern that with from less advantaged backgrounds from becoming part of what some 13,000 responses to the public consultation, a can only be described as the National Health Service of the Law”. response date of early September to an exercise that I have only one minute left. The Lord Chancellor ended in June seems, shall we say, ambitious. Finally, showed his ignorance and lack of understanding of the although those who appeared before the Justice Committee profession. He showed ignorance today by not attending seemed reluctant to explain alternative proposals that this important debate, yet the civil servants Box is full might meet the available budgets, I have to assume to the gunwales. The Lord Chancellor should sit down that such have been made and hope very much that the and meet for the first time the chairman of the Criminal Minister can confirm that they will receive careful Bar Association, Michael Turner QC, and Bill Waddington, consideration, if indeed they have been received. the chairman of the Criminal Law Solicitors Association, and discuss alternatives to these undemocratic, Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): Will unconstitutional and worrying plans. my hon. Friend give way on that point? 525 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 526

George Hollingbery: Just once. in the industry, they currently appear, at least to an outsider, to be the only game in town. I believe that, if Mr Raab: My hon. Friend is very generous, in his handled correctly, they can be the right way forward, own sober and stoic way. although, crucially, they must protect the quality of Among the various alternatives that have been put outcomes at the same time as saving money. forward, I have received a number of concrete suggestions about tighter court management of delays caused by 1.51 pm the Crown Prosecution Service, and the idea of higher Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab): I congratulate fees in commercial cases. Does my hon. Friend agree the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather) on that such additional aspects ought to be considered by enabling Members to debate how the Ministry of Justice the Government? is taking a hatchet to the British justice system. There is of course scope to tackle inefficiency within the justice George Hollingbery: Indeed. I thank my hon. Friend system and to make the necessary changes while ensuring for his intervention. It was exactly such issues that that the core elements of a sound justice system remain Michael Turner brought up in his evidence and it seems in place. Instead, what we see is a slash-and-burn approach that there are genuine savings to be made there, as well to legal aid—I, other hon. Members, legal professionals as costs incurred by those representing, which cannot and constituents have problems with it—that will absolutely be controlled by them. That is a very important point. rewrite the fundamental principles and values of the In the interests of timeliness, I shall move purely to modern British justice system. The reforms attack the the representations that have been made to me by my principles of fairness, justice and, fundamentally, hope. constituents. I have received 40 letters from constituents Local justice has been a foundation stone of this on legal aid and there are one or two specific, rather country’s criminal justice system for years. Many small than general, issues that I would like to draw to the and medium-sized legal firms are the cogs in that local Minister’s attention. The first is about representation, justice machine, alongside the police, magistrates, law which has been brought up in the Chamber today. courts and the Crown Prosecution Service. They often I met Robert Ashworth of Saulet Ashworth LLP in provide the link between each of those organisations Portsmouth and although he did not agree with the that makes our justice system a strong and comparatively Government’s changes, the point he made to me that fair one. people should be able to choose their representation Under the proposals, in Lancashire we would see a seemed to be a good one for the following reasons. He 70% reduction in legal aid services, which would leave believes there are considerable hidden cost savings in just 14 firms covering a population of over 1 million. It certain types of, shall we say regular, clients in having would lead to advice deserts spreading across the country, a trusted solicitor whose recommendations will be especially in more rural areas such as West Lancashire. accepted without debate. A case in point would be a Local firms will be forced to close as they will be unable recommendation, after due thought by the solicitor and to compete with the large entities that are entirely the representative, to offer a guilty verdict. If accepted, commercially driven, which will be the only ones able this can clearly lead to a large saving across many successfully to bid for contracts. The only incentive for budgets. He believes, and I accept the core of his obtaining a contract will be to spend as little as possible argument, that such savings might be lost to the system on each case and to get them over and done with as under the new arrangements. I know that he submitted quickly as possible, not to see that justice is done. There his views to the Government during the consultation. I will undoubtedly be an increase in the number of hope that the Minister will acknowledge that there is an miscarriages of justice, and righting those wrongs will issue to be considered. be very costly. The second issue that has been raised with me relates to rural sparsity. One of the concerns that has emerged Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): My hon. Friend from the consultation is that rural areas might be is making an important point. Because of the fixed disadvantaged as a result of the proposals. In Derbyshire, nature of the contract, there could be a vested interest Cumbria, Wales, parts of Norfolk, and indeed many in a firm getting people to plead guilty. other parts of the country, it is very likely that the contracts awarded will cluster in or around a small Rosie Cooper: I am sure that is exactly what will number of larger towns. In my own backyard, the Isle happen and that justice will be ill served by the people of Wight is a plain example, as my hon. Friend the who support and vote for this awful idea. Has real Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner) has pointed out. consideration been given to the issue of conflict? The That might limit access to justice, given the geographic new legal corporations will reach into every stage of the scale of some of those areas. Once again, I hope that criminal justice process, motivated by profit, not justice. the Minister will offer some indication that that factor The removal of a client’s fundamental right to choose has been recognised. their representative is completely unacceptable. Reform of the legal aid budget is tough. Its sheer These proposals will cause problems for the justice scope and size means that it just is not possible that it system, including concerns about the right to a fair trial can escape savings. The industry itself might come under article 6 of the European convention on human forward with a comprehensive and deliverable package rights. An individual who is involved in multiple matters of change that recognises that reducing budgets is might end up with numerous representatives forced to unavoidable and timeliness is essential. If it does, I hope deal with separate matters. That will add to the delay and expect that the Minister will give the proposals due and the costs as there will duplication of effort in consideration. However, although I recognise that the obtaining information and instructions, to the detriment Government’s proposals will lead to considerable change of the individual. That is if they are to get legal 527 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 528 representation at all. In a big sign of things to come, the Secondly, as a Conservative, I do not like the removal Bar Council has already produced a do-it-yourself guide of choice from the market. It does not really matter that to representing oneself in court. the individual concerned happens to be a defendant in criminal proceedings; after all, at that stage he or she is Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) presumed innocent until proven guilty—we do still have (Con): Does the hon. Lady share my concern that we that. The removal of choice in the selection of representation will see an increase in the number of litigants in person, concerns me. The idea that the state will prosecute, that which, far from driving down costs, will take up more it will contract those who defend, and that those contractors time and add to costs? are likely, under these proposals, to employ the defence advocate, is worrying. I have dealt with cases that have Rosie Cooper: I absolutely agree. In fact, I think that involved issues of security and of taking on the the hon. Lady will find that that is already happening. Government, for example in relation to what the previous How can that aid cost cutting or justice? It is a travesty. Government did in Iraq. I wonder whether someone working for an organisation that had a contract with Everything about the consultation strikes me as being the Government would feel as able as I did to take on about the easy option, not the right option for the those issues and seek to expose them in the course of a people who sent us here or for justice. I believe that the trial, regardless of consequences, as a member of the cuts will be a false economy, as we will see increased independent Bar. inefficiency. One wonders how much could be saved if the Justice Secretary simply sorted out the waste in the There are smaller difficulties. The hon. Member for system. For example, I know of one prisoner who was Redcar (Ian Swales) referred to the proposed fee structure. not produced in court by the Prison Service—it had In fact, that already exists elsewhere. Some military nothing to do with the CPS—on three occasions, with cases in Germany are paid for on that principle, but proceedings stayed and all the associated time and costs with an escape clause, as it were, that recognises that it is wasted. If we tackled that waste, how much money not suitable for the more serious cases. That suggests would we save? We would still preserve justice and that it is therefore not suitable to be rolled out across fairness at the heart of the system. the Crown court system for the vast majority of criminal I wonder whether the Justice Secretary, if his family cases. found themselves unable to afford legal representation— The expression of support for an independent Bar in God forbid—would accept the crumbs that he is now the consultation document is inconsistent with the model throwing to everybody else. In closing, I ask the Minister, that is proposed, under which advocacy would be kept who is in his place, whether justice on the cheap is any in-house to offset the reductions necessary to take part justice at all. in the tendering process. That has implications not only for members of the independent Bar but for judicial recruitment and for the availability of experienced 1.56 pm prosecutors. The Ministry of Justice might want to Simon Reevell (Dewsbury) (Con): I declare an interest: think about what it is doing not only in relation to those I practise at the criminal Bar. I will make my observations who defend in the Crown court but to where it will get on the criminal justice system and the implications for those to whom it looks to prosecute serious cases—the criminal justice legal aid. I will start by saying that there murders, the rapes, the woundings, and matters of that is no reason in principle why the Ministry of Justice sort. should not be asked to look at reducing its departmental Having criticised the consultation document, it does spending or why its expenditure on legal aid should not contain something that has not been offered to any be part of that review. I will not say to my constituents, other group of people. I used to be a soldier. Soldiers who have been affected by all sorts of spending reductions were not told, “These are the proposals—if you’ve got across Departments, that somehow there is special pleading some of your own we’ll look at them”; they were simply as far as criminal justice and criminal justice legal aid told, “These are the proposals.” It is the same for are concerned. teachers, firemen and everybody else. Lawyers are being However, that does not mean that there are not some told, “These are the proposals—if you’ve got alternatives fundamental difficulties with the consultation proposals. and they achieve the same result, then the Department First, simply as a Conservative, I do not like proposals will go with them.” Anybody who works in the criminal that appear set on driving small businesses out of business. justice system knows that savings can be made. The years of dedication and expertise of those small businesses seems to me to be far more important than Karl Turner: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if the fact that the business happens to be law. The principle the consultation document is really about considering is that we should be looking to encourage small businesses, alternatives, the Justice Secretary should meet the not driving their business into the arms of large chairman of the Criminal Bar Association? He has corporations. made himself available on numerous occasions, and the Justice Secretary has refused to see him. Would it not be Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): Does my hon. sensible for the Justice Secretary to agree immediately Friend agree that in places such as rural Devon we will to that meeting? see a mass driving out of those small businesses in small towns and that people will have to travel large distances Simon Reevell: The hon. Gentleman knows full well to seek justice? why that discussion has not taken place and that the prelude to it did not involve a method that was taught at Simon Reevell: My hon. Friend makes the same point the Bar school course that he did. I hope that those very well. difficulties can be resolved. 529 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 530

Karl Turner rose— treatment when they have lost asylum cases or are failed immigration seekers, yet they are being denied access to Simon Reevell: No, the hon. Gentleman has had one legal advice contrary to the assurances that we were go and that is quite enough. given in this House. The consultation has a blunt instrument to deal with We know that people in prison are more likely to have the expense of long trials which impacts on the majority learning difficulties or mental health problems, or to be of Crown court work, but there is a simpler solution—the poorly educated. They are often the product of disruptive abolition of very high-cost cases. Nobody needs them, and difficult childhoods. Many of them have arrived in nobody wants them, and they can be got rid of. That prison having spent most of their childhood, to our would save money at a stroke. great shame, in public care. Those people are particularly Allowing choice but banning the practice of client poorly equipped to advocate for themselves and to use poaching is another effective way of saving money. the internal prison complaints system. It is therefore There are simple measures such as making prisons particularly important, not only in their own interests provide video links so that solicitors can have video but in the interests of the smooth running of the prison, conferences and therefore not have to be paid to travel that we take the steps that we should to ensure that they to prisons. The majority of prisons will not allow solicitors are given effective opportunities to make their case. to have such facilities. Other options would be controlling who within defence teams is paid to read and use Steve McCabe: I agree that people are often not very material, thinking about whether those with frozen well equipped to use the complaints system. Is it not assets can be asked to pay for their own defence, and also the case that if they are driven to the prisons and looking at how those who are convicted can be asked to probation ombudsman, the average cost of a complaint contribute towards the cost of their representation. is about £1,000 more than it would be if we referred There are all sorts of ways of doing this. them to a legal aid lawyer? If those making these proposals and those opposing them on the grounds of the consultation document, Kate Green: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The while recognising in principle that savings have to be £4 million cost savings are very likely to be eaten up not made, were opposing litigants, a sensible judge would only by the cost of using the complaints and ombudsman tell them to go outside and settle the case. The flaws in systems but because of the impact inside prisons if the consultation document are apparent, and the alternatives prisoners are unable effectively to have their case made. are there for consideration. I agree with the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) that we are Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op): getting to the time when this needs to be sorted out and My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech on the resolved, because that can obviously be done with the needs of prisoners. Does she agree that another cause acceptance of all. for great concern is that prisoners will often go through this process when they have exhausted other routes and had unsatisfactory outcomes? Without adequate investment 2.4 pm in the prison complaints system, there will be even Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I want to greater miscarriages of justice. speak about these proposals specifically in relation to prisoners, not when they are on trial but after sentencing Kate Green: My hon. Friend makes an excellent or when they are in prison on remand. The proposed point. savings of £4 million mean that they will no longer be What kinds of situations are we talking about when able to access legal advice and will instead be expected we say that prisoners need representation? It is about to use the internal complaints system when they have issues such as segregation and categorisation. It is about problems. mothers separated from their babies who need to make It is unpopular to speak up for prisoners’ rights in the case to be with them in mother and baby units. It is this House, but it is so important that we do so, because about prisoners who need to access programmes that it is a mark of our being a civilised society that we set will be a prerequisite of their being considered for parameters on what we do to people when we remove parole. It is about cases of bullying or discrimination, their liberty. Removing their liberty does not equate or cases where people are denied access to health treatments with removing all their human and legal rights. that they ought to get. These are really important entitlements that we must ensure that we protect for all Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab): I entirely people. We should not deny them to people simply agree with my hon. Friend’s point about prisoners. I am because they are in prison serving a sentence for a sure that she will apply it equally to those in immigration criminal offence. detention. The removal of legal aid from those people If we fail to deal with these cases adequately, we will, breaches the specific pledge given by the Lord Chancellor as my hon. Friends have said, drive up costs both to this House on 18 December last year, when he said outside and within the prison system. We will have more that legal aid will continue to be available to anybody people in higher category prisons for longer. We will whose life or liberty is at stake. Is it not essential that have more problems caused by failing to address their that promise be kept? underlying health and well-being needs, and that will play out in continuing disruptive and difficult behaviour Kate Green: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. inside prison and on release. I invite the Minister, who is I do not have time to cover immigration in detail, save a very thoughtful Minister, to take account of the much to say that we are talking about people who may be broader context in which these apparently cost-effective returned to face homophobia, torture and appalling measures will impact inside our prisons. 531 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 532

I particularly ask the Minister to comment on youth He has been most willing to engage with Members of offenders, who are the most vulnerable group in our this House who are interested in legal matters. The hon. prisons and in our penal system. Are they too to be hit Lady therefore does herself a disservice to characterise by this lack of access to legal representation? They, of the process as rushed. all prisoners, will be especially poorly equipped to represent themselves. I hope that the Minister will at least be able Mr Lammy: The hon. Gentleman is doing a fair job to give us some assurances on young offenders. of coming to the defence of the Government, but does he really believe, as a member of the criminal Bar, that it 2.9 pm is right to withdraw choice from defendants? That is the fundamental question. Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): I declare the interest that appears in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests that I am a member of the Bar, Robert Neill: The right hon. Gentleman had no difficulty although I do not currently practise and have not done serving in the Government of Tony Blair, who observed so since I have been in the House. For 25 years, I in 2003 that it was time practised in criminal courts around London and the “to derail the gravy train of legal aid”. south-east. I defended almost invariably on legal aid He might like to think about his own background rates and when I prosecuted, the remuneration was before he criticises anybody on the Government side of broadly the same. I have spent enough time at the sharp the Chamber. end to know and value the importance of legal aid in Of course choice is important, but if we are to have a our justice system. sensible and intelligent approach to choice, we must It is because I value legal aid that I find some of the recognise that when choice is funded by the taxpayer, it responses to the Government’s consultation deeply should not come with a completely blank chequebook. disappointing. The criminal justice system and legal aid It is legitimate to look at the way in which choice is deserve better than the rather Panglossian view adopted delivered. We should link to the question of choice the by some Opposition Members and, I am sorry to say, important commitment to a proper quality standard. I some spokesmen of the profession that all is as well as it hope that the Bar Council and the Law Society will can be and that it would horrific to alter it. work with the Ministry of Justice to develop a quality More thoughtful Labour Front Benchers of the standard to ensure that the lawyers who come forward past have recognised that that view is not tenable. The under this scheme are not just acceptable, but really former Lord Chancellor, the right hon. Member for good and able. Blackburn (Mr Straw), not only recognised that the growth in legal aid spending that we had seen over a Mr Raab: Will my hon. Friend give way? decade or more was, to use his word, unsustainable, but observed that the profession needed to consider not just efficiencies, but structural change. He pointed out the Robert Neill: I have given way twice, so my time is opportunities that the Legal Services Act 2007 provided running out. I am sure that my hon. Friend will forgive for such structural change. It is interesting that there me. is, yet again, collective amnesia on the Opposition There might be different means by which the same Benches. objective can be achieved. It might be possible to have some form of panel system. It might be possible to Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ have a different approach to police station work, where Co-op): If we put aside the issues of cost for one there is a strong argument for saying that firms need a moment, because there is agreement that we must always guaranteed volume of work to make the business case consider value for money, is the hon. Gentleman content sustainable, as opposed to the preparation of litigation that the Secretary of State has conducted the consultation and the ongoing court work in both the magistrates in a timely and proper fashion? The rush in which this court and the Crown court. It is not unreasonable to say matter is being dealt with and the lack of a substantive that choice has to be provided in the context of affordability. vote in the House are of real concern, given the issues We must not be afraid to say that. with which we are dealing. We must recognise that the number of people seeking work at the Bar and in the solicitors’ profession has Robert Neill: It seems to me that the Secretary of grown greatly, frankly to an unsustainable level. The State has adopted a careful and measured approach. profession has to recognise that too many people are What the hon. Lady says is thoroughly misleading. I am chasing a diminishing work load. The number of cases sorry to say that she does herself no service by making that go to court has reduced by broadly a third since I such a thoroughly meretricious point. came to the Bar, whereas the independent Bar and the This matter has been the subject of great public solicitors’ profession have become about three times as debate. I have referred to the former Lord Chancellor’s large. Something has to give. Let us sit down sensibly speech in 2009, in which he made specific proposals, and find ways in which that can be achieved. including bringing in fixed fees and graduated fees as a precursor to best value tendering. He may not have Karl Turner rose— delivered on those proposals, but the ideas have been out there for a long time. Robert Neill: I have given way twice and am afraid The Lord Chancellor has met the chairman of the that I cannot give way any more. I am sure that the hon. Bar Council and the president of the Law Society. It is Gentleman will find another opportunity to make his right and wise that he chooses temperate interlocutors. point. 533 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 534

[Robert Neill] Karl Turner: It ought to be on the record that it is the chairman of the Criminal Bar Association, Michael We should not be sniffy about the development of Turner QC, whom the Lord Chancellor is refusing to alternative business models that might deliver the service meet, not the chairman of the Bar Council. properly. I recognise the points that have been made about accessibility in rural areas and about the particular Valerie Vaz: Absolutely. I am sure hon. Members types of expertise that may be needed. We could do received the e-mail from Michael Turner QC stating more within the existing mechanisms to assist people that the Lord Chancellor refused to meet him. with such issues. It is not clear what the Lord Chancellor is trying to I have come across such a situation in my constituency. achieve, other than to undermine the legal system. The Bromley council has set up an online platform in negotiation Lord Chancellor does not appear to understand that if with reputable and well-established solicitors firms in people are given access to legal services, they do not the area that puts potential clients in contact with a need to go to court—if that is where he wants to make solicitor, who provides the initial advice without any the savings. Perhaps he wants to make the savings in charge. There was difficulty in setting that up because, court time. However, as a result of these proposals, despite the willingness of the established solicitors firms court time will be filled by people who can afford going to take part, the Solicitors Regulation Authority would to court. In certain circumstances, companies can offset not provide the necessary regulatory clearance. That is a their legal costs against tax and even get the VAT back. needless bureaucratic obstacle to a practical solution to An ordinary citizen cannot do that. a genuine problem. That could sensibly be looked at Judicial review is an important branch of law. Of and I hope the Minister will consider what might be course, the Executive do not like it because it holds the done. Executive to account—it looks at how public bodies There are other ways in which we can make savings in come to a decision. Given the legislation enacted since criminal matters. My hon. Friend the Member for North 2010, it is no wonder that the Government want a West Norfolk (Mr Bellingham) has suggested using the neutered judicial review. No one can predict the outcome independent Bar more within the Crown Prosecution of a case, so having to make a judgment that there is a Service. We should look at whether more efficiencies 50% chance of winning to receive legal aid, is absurd. can be made in that body more generally. Perhaps we Evidence has to be heard from both sides and a decision should look at the operation of the new centralised is made based on arguments that are made before an magistrates courts service. Again, there might be scope impartial judiciary. Lawyers are obliged to advise a for savings. client whether a case has merits before they proceed. We spend markedly more on legal aid than any What about the figures for judicial review? They are not comparable common law jurisdiction. We spend about increasing exponentially. A written answer to me revealed £39 per head in the UK, compared with about £20 per that in 2009 there were 2,145 cases in judicial review, head in the Republic of Ireland, about £10 per head in with that figure going up to only 2,304 in 2011. In Canada and about £13 per head in New Zealand. Those criminal judicial review, it was 316 for 2011. Those are are jurisdictions with the same system and trial processes just the figures for cases lodged; they are not even the as we have, but they do it markedly cheaper. I do not figures for cases that have gone to completion. believe that a reduction of 10%, which is not out of line with other reductions, is unacceptable. Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): The statistics quoted by those who want to restrict judicial Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. review are that there are just 144 successful cases out of a total of 11,359. We should be careful about those figures, because they include only successful public 2.18 pm hearings. Most cases are settled way before public hearing— Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): It is a pleasure to they are settled before determination—and that is the follow the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst merit of judicial review. (Robert Neill). If the Lord Chancellor really wanted to engage with Valerie Vaz: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that hon. Members, he would be sitting in the Chamber point. He speaks as a true lawyer; I know that he works today. All hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber very hard in his own law firm to deliver justice. know how important, significant and seismic the Let us blow the myth that lawyers are in it for the Government’s proposals on legal aid will be if they are money. As my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston implemented. It is noteworthy that the Law Society, upon Hull East (Karl Turner) said, legal aid lawyers are the Criminal Bar Association, the panel of counsel, the not fat cats. Under legal aid, they do much more work President of the Supreme Court, barristers, solicitors, than they are paid for. Treasury Counsel, whom I had the Equality and Human Rights Commission and our the privilege of working with when I worked for the constituents are all ranged against the proposals and Treasury Solicitors Department, have also expressed against the Lord Chancellor. We know why he is not concerns about the reforms. They undertake Government sitting here today. work at incredibly low rates—much lower than if they As I said in a point of order last week, the Leader of were working in the private sector. They do both, but the House keeps insisting that Ministers have met the they bring the same intellectual vigour to Government chairman of the Bar Council. It is the Lord Chancellor cases as they do to anything else. who has not met the chairman of the Bar Council and What of price competitive tendering? The number of who refuses to meet him. He refuses to meet the very contracts is to be reduced from 1,600 to 400. The west people who will be affected by the proposals. midlands can expect only 20 firms. According to the 535 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 536

Law Society, however, approximately 800 firms operate In their efforts to cut legal costs overall, the Government in the west midlands. The Magistrates’ Association, are overlooking a far bigger cause of waste in the another voice against these proposals, says that there system than legal aid, namely the sheer inefficiency of appears to be little consistency in the number of contracts the Crown Prosecution Service. In 2011-12, more than allocated to each area. The idea that one would get paid 123,000 prosecutions failed after charge because either irrespective of how one’s client pleads is absurd. That is no evidence was presented or the case was eventually not justice; that is plea bargaining. The Lord Chancellor dropped. The cost to the service, the courts and aborted should know the difference. It is not choice either, as it defences was measured in tens of millions of pounds, concentrates representation and funds in a few hands. not to mention the stress faced by people who were, Lawyers pride themselves on their reputation—that is presumably, innocent. how they get their referrals. This will deny people the chance of choosing who they want to represent them. Meg Hillier: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? The hon. Member for Dewsbury (Simon Reevell) said that that is anathema to Conservatives. It is anathema Mr Davis: If the hon. Lady will forgive, I am very to everybody when small businesses go out of business. tight on time. I will give way if I can a little later. Michael Turner QC has come up with decent proposals, That does not tell the whole story, however. Time and if only the Lord Chancellor would meet him. He has again, we see trials delayed and extended by CPS pointed out that 45% of the criminal legal aid budget of incompetence. In my part of the world alone, the £1.1 billion is spent on fraud cases. If there is a banking newspapers are littered with cases of lawyers not turning case and the bank cannot recover the money, the fraud up, evidence not being presented and cases being adjourned loss can be written off against tax, despite the state again and again. I suspect we all have constituency having spent money on investigation. cases just like that. This happens right across the country. This is another policy from the Government that We should not pretend that the legal aid system is a will benefit those who can afford it at the expense of model of efficiency, but when it comes to finding savings the weak and vulnerable. There is no evidence for the and better, effective justice across the whole system, we policy. The Lord Chancellor has no mandate from the should look first at the CPS itself before we let the axe people, and no moral, legal or financial argument to fall again on legal aid. continue with this course of action. He is tampering I am yet to be convinced—this addresses the point with one of the important checks and balances of the made by my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and state. He is trying to weaken the golden triangle of Walton (Mr Raab)—by Government assurances that Parliament, the judiciary and the Executive that underpins the quality of legal aid providers will be guaranteed by the rule of law and the framework of a good society—our a state body. This debate comes barely a week after the society. These proposals are toxic to society and should Care Quality Commission scandal. That demonstrates be withdrawn. how difficult it is to guarantee the quality of complex intellectual services, which, of course, justice is. We 2.25 pm should notice that even where the state has direct control— Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): namely, the CPS and the Serious Fraud Office—it cannot My name is on this motion not because I do not think guarantee quality there either. A judge in a recent we need to control the cost of legal aid—we do—but murder case described the CPS lawyer as “completely should it be done in this way and at this speed? I think inadequate”. The judge said that the lawyer cited old not. The Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of law, did not understand the current law, fell out with the Offenders Act 2012 is barely complete, and has had no prosecution team, and then simply did not show up on assessment. The consultation was extremely brief and the following Monday. As a result, the trial had to be we understand that the Government intend to place held six months later. If we cannot guarantee our own contracts in the autumn. Frankly, without primary system and our own service, how are we going to legislation, the likelihood is that this business will be guarantee 400 private operators around the country? challenged in the courts. We will have more haste and less speed on the delivery of savings. Mr Lammy: Does the right hon. Gentleman also I want to deal with some fundamental points. This is recognise a Conservative idea that competition can not, as has been intimated, about the protection by drive down costs? silver-tongued lawyers of serial offenders: in the Crown courts in contested cases, half are found not guilty. Mr Davis: The right hon. Gentleman is almost taking What we are talking about, therefore, is providing justice the words out of my mouth. I cannot believe that a to the innocent and to victims. Conservative Government are going to mandate how many companies and providers there should be. I know Mr Raab: Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of no example in the world where a Government mandated of the discrete risks of allowing large firms to swallow the number of companies and then improved the efficiency up small firms may be a loss of small specialist firms of provision—not one. This is a Soviet proposal that I capable of demanding the trust of specific local communities do not want to see. I do not mind if there are better —in particular, practices representing victims such as in ways of finding efficiency—as has been said, that is the Stephen Lawrence case and others? what we must find—but please do not lay down laws like that. Mr Davis: My hon. Friend makes a good point that I I wish briefly to discuss a couple of other troubling will return to later. He is exactly right—this is one of the issues in the consultation document, the first of which likely unintended consequences of what is being proposed is the 12-month residency test. That could deny justice in the consultation. to people who have suffered because of the actions of 537 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 538

[Mr David Davis] Justice purchases legal aid services from 1,400 local providers with a model involving just 400 larger providers. the UK Government—under UK jurisdiction—which The fee structure will be changed so that lawyers’ fees we are responsible for resolving. Just to mention cases are paid regardless of whether there is a guilty or not in which I have been directly involved, I can cite those of guilty plea. Binyam Mohamed, Serdar Mohamed, Yunus Rahmatullah, I wish to raise a number of concerns, the first of who is still in Bagram prison, and Baha Mousa. We are which is about choice, which has been mentioned by so talking about: people who were subject to torture in many hon. Members. Choice is vital to ensuring that which Britain was complicit; an innocent man beaten to people have trust in the person representing them. Under death by British soldiers; people who have been rendered— these proposals, defendants who want to change their and still are—to other countries; people who have been provider will have to apply to a court and then it will be handed over to our allies—[Interruption.] From a sedentary the Legal Aid Agency that will determine which other position, my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and provider services their need. On quality, the tendering Walton mentions de Menezes, who was shot, although process will be skewed to the lowest-cost provider; accidentally, by the British Government. All those people lowest cost will trump quality. If it is hard for someone would be denied their justice. More important, given to change their solicitor, what is the incentive to firms to that in many of those cases the person is deceased, the ensure that they provide the best quality to the vulnerable? British people would not know about the misdemeanours There is a great concern that the state—the prosecutor—will of their own Government. also be picking someone’s defence. No doubt, that will That brings me to my final point, which is about again lead to concerns about conflicts of interest and judicial review. I sympathise with Ministers who find it miscarriages of justice. irksome that we have so many judicial reviews, but the I also wish to raise the issue of the impact the Government are in danger of getting themselves a proposals will have on black and minority ethnic firms, reputation for wanting to act above the law. Irksome as which form a large proportion of solicitors, particularly it is, judicial reviews are what keeps British Governments in London. Some statistics show—the Society of Asian honest—it does not matter of which party or of which Lawyers has done some excellent work on this issue—that origin, they keep the Government honest. I say to the four years ago 4,000 firms of solicitors were able to Government that before they strike down these things offer legal assistance to those in the criminal justice at their own convenience, they should think again, come system in London, and 40% of those firms were owned back more slowly and present this House with some by Asian and black lawyers. Changes over the past primary legislation we can then be proud of. few years have reduced the figure to 1,600, with a disproportionate number of the firms that have closed 2.32 pm having been run by those from ethnic minorities. Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op): It is not only Members who are raising concerns; It is good to follow the right hon. Member for Haltemprice research undertaken by the Legal Services Commission, and Howden (Mr Davis), as I agreed with so much of as was, talked about the importance of BME firms. It what he said, particularly the need to save within the said: system but not in this way and certainly not at this “The presence of such firms, positioned as they often are in the speed. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the heart of the communities that they serve, provides reassurance to House on this important topic, which has caused great these communities, giving voice to their grievances and serving to boost social cohesion and confidence.” concern across the country and about which I have received an unprecedented number of representations, Under the Government’s proposals, where BME firms from constituents, barristers, solicitors and charities. secure a contract there is no obvious way in which BME Not least, I note that the Government’s own Treasury defendants will be able to be allocated those providers counsel have expressed opposition, as have Crown Court should they so choose. justices. This is a major issue of concern for all of us Legal aid is vital in ensuring that, after due process, and all our constituents. those who are guilty are found guilty and the innocent Access to justice must not be determined by the are able to clear their names. We must ensure choice in ability to pay.That is one of the most important safeguards access to legal representation and ensure that that choice we have in a state that believes in liberty and fairness. is available to everybody, regardless of wealth or income. Labour has supported finding savings in the legal aid We must ensure that we do all we can to protect the budget, but not in this way. We support people who can British justice system, in which we all have great pride. afford it paying their own legal fees. We support the use of the frozen assets of criminals to fund their legal 2.37 pm costs. We also agree on the need to address the problems Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): I wish to make a few of very high-cost cases, not to mention the need to root short remarks about the “Transforming Legal Aid” out inefficiency in our courts and wider justice system—we consultation, which has sparked such lively debate in would all like to see that done. this House and across the profession, to put it mildly. I The problem is that the core of the Government’s qualify my comments by making the point that I am a proposals are likely to have consequences that go against member of the Select Committee on Justice, as is the the grain of so much that we are proud of in our hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra), system. We surely cannot go through a process of whom I follow. The Committee is conducting a mini-inquiry reform that leads us to a system that puts quantity into these proposals. Representatives of the profession ahead of quality, and risks leading to an increase in have been before us already, and we will see the Lord miscarriages of justice. The Government’s reforms will Chancellor on Wednesday next week. So I have to say replace the current model whereby the Ministry of that I do not recognise some of the knockabout from 539 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 540 the Opposition about the Lord Chancellor somehow Hon. Members might know that Winchester is the being absent on this one. Members from across this home of the western circuit—or, more precisely, the House will be very welcome to come along when he chambers there have for centuries been the major providers comes before the Committee—we have never been so of legal advice and advocacy for the large area they popular. cover. The depth of specialist knowledge available across Some claims have certainly been made about these the circuit is its strength and benefits those whom I and proposals in the past few months, one of which was others in the area represent. Many members of the made at the Committee’s first hearing on the subject, on western circuit will recognise the example I just gave 11 June: that the proposals will spell the end of the and share the concern that many of us have about the independent judiciary in this country, no less. That is future of specialisms. quite a claim, but I do not think it is true and I do not think it helps the debate. Concerns certainly exist about Mr Raab: My hon. Friend is making a powerful the reduction in the number of those at the Bar if these speech. The aim of the reforms is to cut the number of proposals go ahead—future judges are, of course, drawn firms from 1,600 to 400. On the four to five-year tendering from these people. That point has not been aired enough periods, does he share my concern about the countervailing in this debate so far, so perhaps the Minister will touch risk that we might see a small number of large firms on it and allay the fears. Another point that has been snuff out the competition, creating a monopoly and made is that the effect of the proposals will be a leaving no incentive to compete on quality? fundamental change to the criminal justice system, and that is certainly true. Steve Brine: I am not sure that that is the aim of the Many Members still wish to speak in this debate and reforms, but it might be one of the consequences. I am I know that they will discuss many of these fundamental concerned that without such competition, at the end of changes and what they might mean, so I wish to focus the contract period, a firm would be in an incredibly on the issue of choice. It has been repeatedly raised with strong position to say to the Government, “Well, this is me by constituents, as it has been raised by other hon. what we want to continue”. Members who have spoken this afternoon. During the PCT is seemingly not that popular, but I wonder consultation, a practising barrister in my constituency whether it has to be the start and end of this conundrum. sent me what I thought was a useful case study—and It might be the future, but perhaps not now and not to one that I hope will show the human side of this point. this very tight time scale. As we have seen this week, Under the current system, he explained, a young man there is no money left. Clearly, savings must be found—we with profound mental health problems was again arrested are told £220 million—so what is to be done? My right for having a knife in a public place. My constituent, an hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor has rightly said that experienced solicitor, whom the young man knew and we have one of the best legal professions in the world, trusted, was called. He had the defendant’s previous and he is dead right that in a time of major financial psychiatric reports on file and even his psychiatrist’s challenge, the legal sector cannot be excluded from the number in his phone. The defendant was questioned Government’s commitment to getting better value for by the police and advice was tendered. A number of our constituents’ money. I asked the chairman of the appearances in the magistrates court led to the case Criminal Bar Association at a Select Committee evidence being committed to Crown court, at which point my session whether he took at face value the Secretary of constituent was instructed, as he had been before, and State’s assertions that we needed to make significant updated psychiatric reports were obtained. savings, and the response was this: Following various pre-trial hearings to sort out reports, “There is at least £100 million that can be saved by plugging a two-day trial was held, at the end of which the young the gaps in the system. As we have also pointed out, if he wants man was acquitted and further psychiatric treatment real savings to the taxpayer and listens to the proposals that we was ordered by the judge. Happily, according to my have put forward, he can have himself £2 billion for a legal aid constituent, the young man is now on the right medication, budget. The real sadness, for us, is that we are just not being and has a diagnosis of Asperger’s. He even has a job for listened to.” a couple of hours a week. My and my constituent’s I disagree with that. They are being listened to. The very concern is that under price competitive tendering, the fact that this debate is happening on the Floor of the duty solicitor, who almost certainly would not know the House is proof of that. I suggest that the Criminal Bar defendant, might well advise a guilty plea, with an alien Association, the Bar Council and others get these proposals barrister, either in the magistrates court or at first into my right hon. Friend’s hands and give him some appearance in the Crown court. My constituent tells me options. that the fee is the same for a guilty plea as it is for a I do not accept that this country faces a choice short trial, so what is the incentive to have a trial? between well-funded public services that we cannot There is a huge potential conflict of interest for the afford and terrible public services that we can. We need advocate, says my constituent, with the young man sustainable public services that we can afford in the long possibly being sent to prison, resulting in devastating term, and that is as true in legal aid as anywhere else. It consequences for him and the state. I think he makes is true that we have one of the best legal professions in a powerful point. Putting aside the arguments about a the world—a lot of it resides in my part of the world—and reduction in choice in relation to the Legal Aid, Sentencing I want to see it live within its means. It is open to and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 and the European reform, but we might need to think, slow down, find convention provisions on the right to a fair trial, which I initial savings and then reform the system in a way that understand opponents of the proposals will bring forward, leads to reliable savings in the long term. I still think if they are pursued, Ministers must address PCT and that the Government and the profession can jump the choice issue, so that we do not throw the baby out together on this one, if they slow down and talk. I with the bathwater and lose this fundamental right. remain ever the optimist that we can do that. 541 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 542

2.44 pm He seemed to suggest that wisdom comes only with someone’s position in society, and that only those who Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): I am pleased can afford it should have a choice of representation. to be able to contribute to a debate in which we have heard many thoughtful contributions from both sides Throughout the proposals, the same casual disregard of the House. The number of speakers clearly illustrates is shown for those who are not considered worthy of the concerns on this issue, but time does not permit us justice. They include survivors of domestic violence—whose to do justice to them all or me to reflect all the detailed position was raised with me by the local medical committee representations I have received from my constituents. in Sheffield—trafficked people, separated children who I shall therefore focus on the main ones. fail the residency test, prisoners whose cases cannot be addressed through the complaints system, legitimate The first concern is about price competitive tendering. asylum seekers wishing to challenge decisions, and those To demonstrate the breadth and depth of concern, let seeking access to judicial review. me refer the Minister to his more senior colleague, the Bargain basement representation will damage this Attorney-General, who told The Law Society Gazette: country’s reputation for justice. I urge the Justice Secretary “I cannot see that competitive tendering in criminal legal aid to listen to the wise counsel of the Attorney-General makes sense—legal aid contracts do not pay market rates. If firms back in 2004. He should also listen to the widespread want to win a competitive tender, the only way they will be able concern being expressed throughout the country and to to undercut each other is by steps that could open them up to the views being expressed on both sides of the House, potential allegations of incompetence”. and he should go back to the drawing board. He continued: “There are ideas creeping into the system that treat legal aid as 2.49 pm if it is just about the economic provision of a service. That Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): I am approach will lead to problems with lowered standards”. delighted to be able to take part in the debate. I must Those comments were made in 2004, but are even more declare straight away that I am not a lawyer. I hope that pertinent to today’s proposals. Furthermore, they were I can therefore approach the debate in an impartial made by someone who not only is the Government’s manner. I have been listening to it, and I am concerned chief Law Officer, but has considerable personal experience to hear that so many small firms of lawyers could be of the criminal justice system, and he clearly understands excluded from the large contracts. Devon and Cornwall not only how the legal system works, but how markets cover 40,000 square miles, and that will be viewed as work, so as Eddie Stobart prepares to dispense justice one contract. That is a huge area to cover. I am not off the back of a lorry and G4S prepares to bring its against the principle behind the reform, but we must be expertise from the Olympics to the criminal justice careful about introducing contracts that will cover such system, we need to ask what the legal landscape will huge areas. We must ensure that smaller companies look like if these proposals are forced through. have a chance to tender for that work. As hon. Members have said, in the three months that Mr Burrowes: My hon. Friend makes a good point businesses have in which to bid, small legal practices about small firms. I work in one such firm as a criminal will be squeezed out of the system. It is deeply ironic defence solicitor. Does he recognise a certain irony, in that the Government are proposing a system so damaging that the Government want to avoid the legal aid deserts to small businesses. Unable to grow to the scale needed that it has been suggested could be created as a result of to compete for contracts and unable to offer the loss the equal-sized contracting model, and that the small leaders of the big companies that want to get into the firms, the medium-sized firms and the large firms are all market, hundreds of firms will go to the wall, and as saying that the proposed model is unviable? was pointed out, this will affect not fat cat lawyers, but many honest, hard-working and often poorly remunerated Neil Parish: My hon. Friend speaks with a great deal solicitors, who, with their modest earnings, make a real of experience as a lawyer in a law firm. He has identified commitment to justice in this country. the problem with the reform, and I can relate to what he Our bigger concern, however, should be about the is saying. I suspect that all Conservative Members recognise impact on justice. We are looking at a cost-driven race the need to make savings, but we need to do so in a way to the bottom, with firms competing simply on price that will still allow people to have a choice. Hon. Members and, as was pointed out, being incentivised to cut on both sides of the House are keen to see small law corners and find the innocent guilty. As the consultation firms get business and stay in business. document makes clear, lawyers will receive the same fee It is estimated that about £20 million is being spent for entering a swift guilty plea as for providing several on the defence of criminals, many of whom are probably days’ legal defence. Constituents have also made the not declaring all their assets, and I agree with the point to me that losing the opportunity to choose a Government that that needs to be sorted out. That is lawyer is a fundamental breach of rights. I am disappointed perhaps a slightly different issue, but it is none the less that the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst essential that taxpayers’ money is used to the best effect. (Robert Neill) minimised the importance of that. On A cut-off point can be set on a person’s income above that issue, the Justice Secretary’s own comments are as which they will not qualify for legal aid, but there are enlightening as they are shocking. He gave a real insight also cases in which someone who is eligible for it carries into his thinking when he said: on a vexatious case against a person who is just above “I don’t believe that most people who find themselves in our the threshold and has to fund the case themselves. That criminal justice system are great connoisseurs of legal skills”— is perhaps not a matter for debate today, but it is essential, if we are to ensure that people can get access as they— to legal aid, to ensure that those cases that are pursued “often come from the most difficult and challenged backgrounds”. are legitimate and not simply vexatious. 543 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 544

It has been pointed out that we are seeing a great One of the most contentious aspects of these so-called many judicial reviews. It is right that the Government reforms is the removal of the client’s right to choose. should be challenged, but it not necessarily right that Instead people will be allocated a provider, regardless of everyone should have access to a judicial review, as they the complexities of the case or whether they have any are often unnecessary. I broadly support the Government’s particular needs or vulnerabilities. attempt to reduce the costs of legal aid, but I am concerned about certain aspects of it, as I live in and Caroline Lucas: The right hon. Gentleman will know represent an area of Devon that is very rural and the that the clause in the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment proposed contract will be very large. I believe that the of Offenders Act 2012 that guaranteed the right of the Secretary of State and the Minister are listening to individual to choose was deemed to be incredibly important these arguments; the Minister is nodding his head. I do and now is being completely ignored. Does he agree not want us to be a Government who reduce choice, that there is a very real risk that the public simply will who drive out of business many small firms that do an not have confidence in a system where the defendant’s excellent job and, perhaps, who do not save anywhere lawyer is chosen by the very state seeking to convict near as much money as we believe we will. Before we go them? ploughing on with this, let us sit down and have a proper consultation. I am hopeful that the Government Mr Llwyd: That is a very important point, because it are not just saying this and that they will have meaningful was considered vital in the civil context and yet curiously talks. I look forward to that happening. not even regarded as being of passing interest in the criminal context, where people risk their livelihood, liberty and everything else. 2.54 pm Comments made recently by the Justice Secretary in Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): May I the Law Society Gazette make one rather suspicious first of all declare an interest? For many years, I practised that there is something ideological in the calculated family and criminal law, both as a solicitor and barrister, removal of choice. He said that he does not believe and many of the cases were legally aided. “that most people who find themselves in our criminal justice The effects of these reforms will be extremely detrimental system are great connoisseurs of legal skills” to solicitors and their practices. Inevitably we will have or to paraphrase—as we have heard—they are “too advice deserts and this will impinge even more on the thick to pick”. These condescending comments display situation in Wales, where there is a requirement to a sinister lack of compassion for the vulnerable in provide services through the medium of Welsh. The society and a cavalier disregard for these individuals’ Justice Secretary, sadly absent, has admitted that the best interests. Ministry only considered this factor a month into its consultation and his impact assessment does not even Denying an individual the right to choose their legal mention the Welsh language. representation is arguably in breach of the European convention on human rights, article 6 of which sets out The consultation process in general so far has been specific rights for criminal defendants including that nothing short of a sham allowing professionals only they should be informed of the offence they are accused six weeks to get up to speed with proposals that will of in a language they can understand. fragment the professional world they inhabit. To add insult to injury, the Government intend to introduce A loss of expertise will also follow, unfortunately; the these reforms by secondary legislation without proper point made by the hon. and learned Member for scrutiny by Parliament. This is scandalous. Unless these Harborough (Sir E. Garnier). It will deprive the legal plans are stopped now and quickly, there will be no system of practitioners, firms, solicitors and counsel turning back. with specialist knowledge of particular cases and areas of law. In the event of price-competitive tendering Mr Lammy: I was in Wales at the weekend and was being introduced to the so-called market, the quality of struck by the major rurality issues in that part of the service will be considered at only a preliminary stage of UK. Is the right hon. Gentleman concerned that the the process. The final stage of bids will be determined loss of high street lawyers in rural areas could damage on price considerations only. Even at the starting price, access to justice? following three previous cuts to legal aid fees over the last eight years, the Government have specified that Mr Llwyd: Undoubtedly so and, as one who used to bids must be at least 17.5% lower than the current rates. practise in a small town, I speak with a little authority. The first casualty of this race to the bottom will be The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. the quality of service. Astonishingly, as has been said, providers will be paid the same unit price for preparing Sir Edward Garnier: It goes further than the point made each case regardless of the offence and regardless of by the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy). a push for either a guilty plea or trial. This presents a It goes to the Bar as well, as the right hon. Member for conflict of interest, but the Justice Secretary has said Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) and I know. If the that he is sure the professionals can be relied on to act in good barristers leave because they cannot afford to the best interest of the client—but the professionals will remain within the criminal legal aid system, we will not no longer be around; that is the point. They will have get the silks and we will not get the circuit judges and been priced out of the market altogether. Crown court judges. In that way, we will see a diminution The proposals provide that daily payments to solicitors, in the quality of justice that we all expect to receive. for example, will be reduced after a second day. There are many reasons for delays in court—interpreters not Mr Llwyd: The hon. and learned Gentleman is absolutely turning up, people speaking the wrong language, change right and I could not have put it any better. of court date at the last minute, Crown Prosecution 545 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 546

[Mr Llwyd] I do not like the idea of a state-imposed system of providing criminal legal aid, rather than that of allowing Service witnesses and so forth—but the individual lawyers a market to develop organically. I shall make three are now apparently to be penalised. With 400 remaining observations to highlight my concerns. providers, advice deserts will develop in rural areas. First, I do not believe that four firms can provide At present, there are 249 law firms in Wales undertaking comprehensive coverage across the whole of Suffolk. some form of criminal work. Under these proposals, Rather than applying the same straitjacket to each of only 21 contracts will be awarded to provide legal aid the 42 criminal justice service areas, would it not be criminal services in Wales. Providers will be expected to more appropriate to look more closely at the make-up service work across large distances without any additional of each area and come up with a system that takes payment for travel costs. There will be no guarantee of account of such features as rural sparsity and the work after the initial three-year contracts have come to location of the main police stations, police investigation an end. It is difficult to imagine small local firms being centres and local courts? able to survive. With them will go knowledge of the Secondly, I am concerned that requiring firms to local area, local police, courts and agencies and local expand substantially to cover such large procurement access to justice. Instead, we shall have Eddie Stobart, areas could mean that solicitors spend most of their Tesco, G4S, the Co-op and so forth. There is even talk time sitting in their cars driving to courts and police of call centres. The prospect of tendering cases out to stations. In Suffolk, Lowestoft is 45 miles from Ipswich “Stobart Law” or “Tesco Law” fills me with absolute and 54 miles from Bury St Edmunds. Is it realistic to dread. It will mean an attack on the criminal Bar and reduce automatically by 17.5% fees that have been will make a cataclysmic impact on the future of our pegged back in any case for many years, and then expect criminal judiciary. a firm in, say, Ipswich to provide a comprehensive and These proposals will, I am afraid, seriously undermine good service in Lowestoft? Will such firms have a the rule of law. Why is it, then, that the Council of proper and full understanding of the needs, challenges Circuit Judges vehemently opposes these plans? Why is and concerns of people in the Waveney area? Is it the Judicial Executive Board similarly opposed? Why practical for solicitors to drive an hour through the is Lord Neuberger, until recently the President of the night to attend at police stations? Driving up and down Supreme Court, vehemently opposed? Why? It is because the A12 or along the A143 are not the easiest journeys they are right. The Justice Secretary—a non-lawyer—knows at the best of times. better than the finest legal brains in the British Isles. It Thirdly, it has been suggested that one way in which is time to reconsider, and if this consultation is not to be solicitors can improve their productivity is to make a sham, the Government must reconsider. greater use of paralegals. That would involve those who are not fully qualified and have lower hourly charge-out 3.2 pm fees carrying out more routine work. Such an approach Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): I am grateful to the may well be practical in other legal fields where there hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather) for are fewer legal obligations, but not in criminal legal aid, securing this debate. I shall concentrate mainly on the which is fundamentally different from other legal work. proposals relating to price competitive tendering. My We all must accept that savings have to be found. concern is that these are not suitable for a county such To find them, one must adopt a strategic approach, as Suffolk, which covers a large geographical area, looking at the whole criminal justice process, from the much of it rural in nature. Suffolk has three principal police station through to the courtroom. I would be urban centres: Ipswich, Bury St Edmunds and Lowestoft, grateful for an update from the Minister on whether the the latter being the principal town in my constituency. Government will increase magistrates’ custodial sentencing All are some distance from each other. powers from six months to 12 months, which will enable justice to be delivered more efficiently and quickly by Having lived in Suffolk my whole life and having magistrates who live in, and have a good understanding worked there as a chartered surveyor for many years, I of, the communities they serve, and, according to my do not believe that it is practical for a firm of solicitors understanding, would produce significant savings of up based in one of the three towns to provide a good to £40 million a year. service across the whole county. If the proposals are implemented in their current form, I fear it could result Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): On that point, I in significant parts of the county being left without listened carefully to what my right hon. Friend the ready access to good legal advice. One would, in effect, Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) said be creating advice deserts, as many Members have said. about the Crown Prosecution Service not being up to This would be bad for my constituents and bad for the job. Surely more savings could be made there. those towns and market towns where the presence of solicitors on the high street, often long-established family Peter Aldous: To find savings, we should look across firms or partnerships, could be put at risk. There is a the whole criminal process, from the police station on need for their continued presence. Large multi-discipline the first night through to the courts, whether magistrates firms have their place, but we do not want a system that courts, which I believe should have a bigger role, or the encourages all solicitors to locate on business parks, Crown court. We must look at the CPS as well, and my often inaccessible to public transport, on the edge of right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and remote urban centres. My worry is that the proposals Howden, who is not in his place, made a very good could eradicate those small legal firms who best know point about that. their clients, and this would be bad for community The Secretary of State should look again at the justice. These high street firms are not legal fat cats proposals for price competitive tendering. There is a gorging on legal aid. need for a more local approach that takes account of 547 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 548 the individual features and characteristics of different lawyer and trusted him, he was able to provide a high areas and communities, an approach that enables small quality of representation, and she was acquitted. That and medium-sized firms of solicitors to have a sustainable would not happen under the proposed new system. and viable future, and an approach that provides local Again, we should not jeopardise access to the law for communities with access to legal advice and support the most vulnerable members of society. According to from professionals who have local knowledge of the my daughter, it can take weeks for a trusting relationship particular problems and challenges in their area. to develop; in the early stages, one-word sentences may be the only form of communication. Several hon. Members rose— There are also proposals to restrict access to legal Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. A advice in prisons. As I have said, my daughter works in large number of Members still wish to speak, and there prison law. I have been told that a very vulnerable client are only 30 minutes left before the debate will conclude. who was sentenced at the age of 15 and had served three I hope that Members will try to make their comments times her sentence tariff was recently released following succinctly so that as many as possible can speak, and a judicial review. That would not happen under the new that those who are tempted to make interventions will system—and she is not unique. As we heard from my avoid doing so if at all possible, and save them for the hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston Minister and the shadow Minister, so that Back Benchers (Kate Green), many prisoners are extremely vulnerable, get their comments on the record. and may have mental health problems or learning difficulties. It should be recognised that punishment is not the only purpose of prison. Opportunities for rehabilitation should 3.9 pm be offered, and prisoners should have access to the law Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) when that does not happen. It should also be ensured (Lab): I will try to remember your advice, Madam that facilities are appropriate for those with learning Deputy Speaker. Although I am not a lawyer, I should difficulties or other disabilities. mention that my eldest daughter is a lawyer working in It is a myth that restricting access to civil legal aid will prison law, so I have drawn much of what I will say from save money. It has been suggested that the changes her experience. relating to prison law will save £4 million, but, as we On the proposals being an attack on access to justice know, there will be a cost of £10.3 million. for all regardless of means, we must ensure that such access is protected. Even the Government’s Treasury Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. Counsel has roundly condemned the proposals. What The hon. Lady’s time is up. concerns me particularly is the fact that they will not require primary legislation, but will be pushed through 3.14 pm in secondary legislation. That is an insult to Parliament. A system that would restrict access to criminal legal Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): Before I make some aid to people with assets of less than £35,000 would be brief remarks on behalf of the many members of the very different from the current system. The Government legal profession and the general public who have approached say that they do not want to pay for the defence of me, may I say a word to the House on behalf of the wealthy criminals, but people who are charged are not Backbench Business Committee? The Committee granted criminals. Indeed, that is the point of charging them. this debate to the hon. Member for Brent Central The proposed restriction breaches the fundamental principle (Sarah Teather) and the right hon. Member for Tottenham in our legal system that those who are charged are (Mr Lammy) as a general debate with no Division to presumed innocent until proved guilty. Article 6 of the allow for a wide-ranging and frank discussion, which I European convention on human rights requires that think all Members would agree the House is having. We they have the right to a fair trial and to professional are also extremely mindful of the fact that the debate is legal representation. I agree with my right hon. Friend over-subscribed and the House needs to give more time the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy): this is akin to to this subject. Does the right hon. Gentleman want to what might happen in a country run by a despot. It is intervene on me at that point to say anything? entirely unacceptable. Our proud tradition of the right to access to the law dates back to Magna Carta, and we Mr Lammy: The hon. Lady is a member of the should not threaten that tradition. Backbench Business Committee, and I wonder whether she is saying more time could be made available for us I was also concerned to learn that in the autumn to return to this topic and have a vote. I am also mindful there is to be consultation on a proposal to restrict that the shadow Secretary of State has not yet spoken, access to legal aid for recipients of benefits. The restriction however, and that I may not need to press this debate to of access to the law for the poor and vulnerable would a Division. take us back to the dark ages, and we must not let it happen. Jane Ellison: I hope it is possible not to do so, for the Some Members have referred to the introduction of reason I have just explained. There is also a short, but price competitive tendering, which many believe will important, debate to follow. lead to a race to the bottom and a dramatic reduction in the quality of services. Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): If it helps, may I say that The importance of the right to choose one’s lawyer as the Justice Secretary is running scared and is not here has also been mentioned. One of my constituents, who today, and as the Government are failing to allow a vote is a solicitor, told me of a vulnerable young woman who on this issue, the Opposition will use some of the had been abused. She had been charged on three occasions, limited parliamentary time available to us to hold an but because she had built up a relationship with her Opposition day debate on it? 549 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 550

Jane Ellison: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his point, I say those points have all been touched on in this intervention. debate, and I will make sure each of them is aware of I am not a lawyer, but many points have been put to what has been said. me by people in the legal professions, and I therefore The last point I want to make is about the money to wish to pick up on a few of those points. Of course I do be saved by the smoother running of the justice system. not think it is unreasonable to look for savings from this In recent weeks I have been stopped on the street by two budget, just as savings are being looked for from all the part-time judges—there is obviously something about others, but the question is how they are to be found. Battersea, as part-time judges just stop people in the There seems to be a consensus emerging in the House street. They said that there are enormous savings to be that there are better ways to find savings in this budget made through the system running more efficiently, with than through these particular savings. fewer delays and mishaps. They also made the point May I quote from one of the criminal barristers who that a rise in the number of litigants in person will wrote to me directly? She said: almost certainly have a knock-on impact on the justice “We who work at the ‘coal face’ know where the money can be system, and not in a helpful or money-saving way. saved and where the problems are. We are acutely conscious that every Department must sustain a cut in spending. But this is not 3.19 pm the right way to do it—we would like to sit down with the MOJ and discuss how we can save money and preserve the justice Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ system at the same time.” Co-op): I want to talk about the impact of the proposals, Those are wise words and I think all Members would the process and the politics of the situation. Before I want us to try to find consensus as to how to proceed. start, however, I should mention that I have raised the On the residency test, I represent the last British issue with the National Audit Office, particularly after resident of Guantanamo bay, so I can think of obvious its very good work on interpreters in the criminal justice exceptions—people who very much need access to justice system. The Secretary of State ought to be a little and who certainly would not qualify under that test. worried, because the NAO will be watching and monitoring Turning to a slightly less dramatic aspect, I am also the situation and waiting to assess the impact. Of course, particularly concerned about victims of human trafficking. it always does that retrospectively, but the Secretary of I said this in my submission to the consultation: State could save himself a lot of grief from an NAO audit if he improved the scheme from the beginning. “Had I applied this test as an MP, a number of vulnerable constituents who I have been able to help would not have qualified. What the NAO can do well is consider the system as a I would particularly wish to be assured that the proposed residency whole. I have asked it to do that and it is considering test would not stop victims of human trafficking or modern that request at the moment. slavery being represented.” As time is limited, I will not repeat the arguments on Much has been said about the issue of high street the impact of the scheme that have been made eloquently firms. Not every high street firm is absolutely brilliant, by so many Members. Let me touch on a couple of and that is especially in an area in which I work a lot. I points, however. The system is often painted as dealing have a large immigration case load, and about 15% of with criminals but, as my hon. Friend the Member for my constituents do not receive notification of their Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) said, leave to remain or get their papers back in a timely people are innocent until proven guilty. A local solicitor fashion, and we often have to chase them up. I would in my area has pointed out that more than 50% of the therefore just say that everyone can look to improve. people who rely on legal aid with whom he deals are Price competitive tendering has been discussed, and I innocent and are neither charged nor cautioned. This is was particularly struck by the point made by the hon. an attack on the innocent, as well as on those who Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) about the potential for appear in the picture painted by the Government. end-to-end vested interests. That is particularly concerning One of the big impacts is through cost-shunting. We and gave us all pause for thought. I also fundamentally have heard a lot about self-representation, more time agree with the points made by Conservative colleagues and duplication of work. Those are serious issues. I am about price competitive tendering, and in particular the a member of the Public Accounts Committee and when comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury we consider such issues, we see time and again that one (Simon Reevell). It just does not feel like a naturally Department makes cuts and pushes the cost on to Conservative solution to a problem potentially to drive another. We must consider the system-wide elements choice and competition out of the market. That just and I am not convinced that the Government have done does not feel like what we should be doing. that. Finally, I want to say a few words about the smooth I will not repeat the other arguments, save to mention running of the justice system, drawing on my own what happened when I was a Minister dealing with experience of particularly complex cases involving, sadly, challenging issues, when I took on dealing with children people stuck in the revolving door of prison and the detained with their families. In that investigation, I justice system, and often involving drugs and so forth. uncovered the immense cost of not getting proper legal The Government are seeking to address that in a way I advice at the beginning of a case. It caused huge problems applaud, but these people often have very complex and damage to those children at a later date. There was problems, and the cause of ensuring justice in the courts also a huge issue with the geographical spread of cases. is almost certainly served by their being able to have I did a round table in Wales and swathes of that nation some kind of continuity of representation, rather than in our country did not have immigration lawyers. I fear starting again with a new solicitor every time. that this change will only exacerbate that. I shall finish a little early to try to ensure that every On the process, the consultation has been rushed. Member has a chance to speak. To those constituents There has been no proper opportunity for debate in this who may feel I have not touched on their particular House and we have heard of some of the inadequacies 551 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 552 in the consultation. The statutory instrument in the the people are proud of and that is about fairness. The autumn will be the only opportunity the House gets to legal aid system is also an institution that is about vote on these proposals and I am delighted that my fairness. It is one that we can be proud of, but it is not right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) one that in polls people say is a No. 1 priority. That has said that the Opposition are not afraid of a debate makes it even more important that we as a Parliament on the issue. and a Government make sure it has integrity, but it There have been no pilots. The points about changes cannot be excluded from the Budget round. made elsewhere should also be considered and perhaps Why can we proud of it? Members do not have to pilots could compare this option with some of the take my word for it. Just take the word of the Secretary others. I was a witness in court in the past year and was of State, who has been maligned and caricatured in appalled at how much time was wasted. I was in a room many ways, but I am convinced is open and is listening with four other witnesses, some of whom were also to this consultation. We need to take his word for it— victims. Only one was called into court that morning. One woman had some sandwiches and I realised as I left Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) that she must have been prepared—indeed, she had (Lab): Where is he? been before and knew that her case might not be heard. What a waste of everyone’s time and money! It is Mr Burrowes: Let us not get into the “Where is he?” everyone’s—it is taxpayers’ money, it is my constituents’ business, or who he meets with. Let us take this a bit money and the situation needs to be considered. This is more seriously. Let us listen to what he said in the not the way to do it. It is a cack-handed approach, but document. He said: the situation is presented in a very political way. “Access to justice should not be determined by your ability to Costs have gone down, as legal aid spend figures pay, and I am clear that legal aid is the hallmark of a fair, open published yesterday show, but I have not time to go into justice system.” that. That is what we have all been saying throughout today’s The Government are trying to paint the picture that debate. He went on to say: they are being tough on criminals and immigration. “Unfortunately, over the past decade, the system has lost much That rhetoric is unhelpful. It attacks many of my of its credibility with the public. “ constituents, who need good advice. Even with legal I look at the criminal legal aid system, predominantly in aid, we have a two-tier system. The changes will cut the police stations and magistrates courts. The Secretary of vulnerable adrift. Many of my constituents have suffered State went on to say: because they cannot afford expensive lawyers and legal aid lawyers are already stretched. “Taxpayers money is being used to pay for frivolous claims, to foot the legal bills of wealthy criminals, and to cover cases which There is politics attached to this. We have heard from run on and on racking up large fees for a small number lawyers.” the Deputy Prime Minister, who is quoted in the Daily The proposals seek to deal with that; for very high cost Mail as saying: cases, I welcome that. “Youcould say it’s perverse that a Government with Conservatives Police stations and magistrates courts have been under in it is reducing public choice”— cost control for a number of years, with real-terms cuts. we have heard that already— Is there evidence that the system has lost credibility “rather than increasing it…on the back of the consultation we with the public and we must change the system wholesale should see if there are alternative, less disruptive, less unpopular by introducing price competitive tendering? I think not. ways of delivering” When we look at the elements of our system and ask savings. what is delivering quality and what is making us proud So there you have it, Madam Deputy Speaker. If the of it, we see that it is the fact that it is based on the Liberal Democrats decide that this is unpopular, they principle of choice. Yes, we can look at procurement might persuade the Government to drop it. Given that going forward, but we cannot undermine the principle we have no vote on it, that might be our best bet. So I of choice. urge those who are listening to this debate to turn up in When we look at those that I and others have represented droves to the surgeries of Liberal Democrat Members over the years, we can characterise them as the good, and persuade them that it is unpopular. Then perhaps the bad and the ugly. Choice ensures that the most the Deputy Prime Minister will have his way. heinous, wretched criminal is represented and has a choice of lawyer. The most worthy of saints also gets the choice of lawyer, without judgment or conditions. 3.24 pm That is an important principle of which we can be Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): I proud. It means that, when dealing with the regular refer the House to the Register of Members’ Financial clients that I have represented over the years, we can Interests. My interest is as a criminal defence duty enter a timely guilty plea, which is efficient; we can solicitor, so I have a particular interest in relation to the achieve a sentence that takes account of their mental criminal legal aid proposals. It is important that we health needs or drug needs and go the extra mile to focus on this issue, but we should not have this debate in make sure that they get drug rehabilitation. a vacuum. Certainly, yesterday’s statement ensures that We can also represent the young innocent because we do not have a vacuum; there is a need to make the their parent has asked us to go down to the police £11.5 billion saving, and legal aid cannot be exempt. station. They want to choose someone they trust, who We also heard from the Chancellor that this is about can understand the person’s special educational needs, fairness. Reference was made to the national health problems of communication or learning difficulties. service as an institution that we can be proud of, that They need their own solicitor to be involved. We must 553 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 554

[Mr Burrowes] What do those case studies tell us? They tell us that under the new regime, lawyers are unlikely to take on a have choice, yes to protect the vulnerable but also to case where there is a likelihood that it will be settled ensure quality, to ensure that there is a client base that is before permission stage, as they will not be paid. Perversely, protected and maintained but also to ensure mutual the strongest cases will not be funded and taken up. trust and good will in the system. People on low incomes will have much less chance of Let us look at the costs of justice so that we can getting access to judicial review and to justice. We are deliver efficiency. But let us also listen to the Ministry of told that cases such as the ones I have described are less Justice over the years, which has said that choice is the likely to have a good outcome. The young man whose key deliverer of quality. Let us listen to Lord Carter case I described is now enjoying learning and, hopefully, who conducted an independent review, and said that he will grow up to have a decent job and contribute choice had to be maintained. Let us also recognise our positively to society. Imagine what might have happened small firms, who make up three quarters of legal aid if that intervention had not occurred early enough. firms and do the business end—the 90% of cases that go through to magistrates courts. They are delivering Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend out of good will—yes, they are paid, but a fairly limited agree that when changes are so far reaching, there really wage—because they care about the system. They need ought to be some sort of pilot scheme and evaluation to be maintained and encouraged. We need to go along before anyone takes any steps any further to try to with it, with a timetable and proper consultation so that implement any changes of this nature? we deliver an efficient justice system for the benefit of all. Lyn Brown: I absolutely agree. In the examples I gave, if the outcomes that were, in effect, negotiated before 3.29 pm the cases got to court had not been achieved, the costs of the alternatives in terms of alienation, unemployment, Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab): Rightly, a lot of attention ill-health, petty crime and worse, replicated across the has been given to the changes to legal aid for criminal country, would far outweigh the £1 million that I understand law and the removal of choice of solicitor, and those are the change is designed to save. How much more would it serious matters, but I will focus on the cuts to legal aid cost us to keep that young man in the criminal justice for judicial review. I do not speak as a legal expert—I system and to replicate that across the country? am not a solicitor or a barrister—but I will illustrate how judicial review has worked in the past and how the David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Will the proposed changes will militate against good outcomes. hon. Lady give way? A 12-year-old boy was excluded from school and his local authority placed him in the pupil referral unit. Lyn Brown: No, I will not. After a couple of days he stopped going, because the Even if we were to save £1 million, would that be PRU was in an area where a different gang was based worth the cost of losing the ability to change the lives of and he was scared. For two years, the boy received no people like those in my examples? People must be able education: the local authority occasionally organised to hold power to account, and I fear that the proposals meetings with the family and occasionally threatened to are a serious attack on the right of the most vulnerable take his mother to court. Understandably, she wanted in our society to do just that. her son to be educated, but she understood his fears. A local charity recommended a solicitor, who made Several hon. Members rose— repeated attempts to resolve the problem with the local authority. They were ignored. Eventually, the mother Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I am issued judicial review proceedings. They were ignored. dropping the time limit to four minutes. I am going to An order was made for the matter to be expedited, with get everybody in, so nobody will miss out. a date for the authority to set out what it steps it was taking to provide the boy with an education. That order 3.34 pm finally galvanised the authority into action to avoid judicial review. A package was worked out, with good Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): I will will, between the council, the PRU and the local college—a keep my comments brief. As the mood of the House has right and welcome outcome. Under the Government’s made clear, there is an acceptance across the Chamber proposals, the case would not have received legal aid, as that reform is necessary and cost savings must be found it was settled before the permission stage. in the legal aid budget, but there is an overwhelming There are other cases that illustrate my worries about view that although change may be necessary, the ones the future, such as the woman receiving treatment for proposed are very clearly the wrong changes. Coalition cancer who was evicted because the landlord wanted to colleagues have been keen to point out from the sell the property unoccupied. She would no longer be Conservative Benches that in their opinion this is not a able to challenge the council’s decision not to provide Conservative reform and not one that they can support her with emergency accommodation. A 16-year-old girl from their own philosophy. I understand and sympathise fleeing the physical abuse of her alcoholic mother and with that. stepfather was living on the streets until the threat of Let me say from the Liberal Democrat Benches that judicial review convinced the council to find her these changes are not liberal. They undermine the principles accommodation. Shelter, which represented the girl, of liberal democracy and the justice system that is a key would not have been paid for the case because the local part of it. They threaten the liberal values of justice and authority acted after it was threatened but before the fairness that our justice system should be based on. I case got to court. am therefore saying clearly that as Liberal Democrats 555 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 556 we should oppose them. As colleagues have said, we There are some serious questions to be asked. We have already had substantial cuts to the legal aid budget have gone through the miserable experience of LASPO, through the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of we have already seen the effects of the loss of legal aid, Offenders Act 2012 and the lower fees built into the we have seen in our surgeries many people who cannot 2010 criminal legal aid contract. find a lawyer to help them, and many legal aid practices I have further concerns, apart from the financial ones. have already gone under in high-cost inner-city areas My hon. Friend the Member for Redcar (Ian Swales), where low-income families are desperate to receive justice. as a member of the Public Accounts Committee, has I hope that we will have a serious response to the laid out the Committee’s concerns. I am a member of Ministry of Justice’s rather rushed consultation. the other overseeing Committee, the Public Administration Like all Members who have spoken, I have received Committee, and we have already expressed our concerns many representations on this matter. I do not have time that in a number of areas Government procurement to quote from or refer to them all, but I would like us to does not sufficiently allow small and medium-sized remember one important underlying principle. When enterprises to bid. Here we have something that the the current legal aid system, more or less, was introduced Government are doing which will make that difficult or in the 1940s—it was built on the rather ineffective impossible and will damage or destroy many small system that existed before—the then Government, who businesses. As Members have said, many of the high were much more far-sighted than this Government, street solicitors are not fat cats. Many of them operate considered legal aid to be as valuable to justice in our in the heart of communities, and that will be ripped society as health, education, housing or the welfare away by the proposed changes. That seems to undermine state system that prevented people from falling into a number of other Government initiatives, including destitution. What we are approaching, if we are not the Portas review, for example. already there, is a system in which if someone is poor, In 2011 at the Liberal Democrat federal conference destitute, marginalised and up against it, they will get we passed a motion noting that those least advantaged no help and no justice and will continue to suffer. Legal in society are often those who most need assistance in aid is fundamentally important in a democratic, civilized getting access to the courts and to legal aid, and that society in which a person can have their day in court to fair access to justice and to the courts is a mark of a get a verdict in their favour or otherwise. modern, civilised and democratic society. The Liberal I will mention the representations I received from Democrat party as a whole therefore agreed that before INQUEST, a good organisation based in my constituency. any substantial changes are made to the legal system, It rightly points out that the cases of Jean Charles de full consideration, assessment and trials should be carried Menezes and Jimmy Mubenga could not have been out, which is not the case at present. taken to court had these proposals been in operation. It also points out that the proposals are likely to breach Liberal Democrat lawyers have come up with a number article 2 of the European convention on human rights, of proposals to show that there are different ways of which concerns the right to life. The Immigration Law achieving the same aims. These proposals are worthy of Practitioners Association, which over many years has consideration, and I hope the Government will consider done fantastic work on ensuring that everyone is represented them. They include lifting the bar on assets subject to a and gets advice, points out, in relation to judicial reviews: criminal restraint order from being used to fund reasonable “This is not an immigration problem or even a legal aid legal expenses; removing long and complex fraud cases problem. It is a problem of access to justice, of equality of arms, entirely from the scope of legal aid and instead requiring of holding the State to account.” company directors to take out insurance against the That is what a judicial review must be about. costs of defending in prosecutions arising out of the conduct of their company; the use of penalties which For those busy telling us that every lawyer is a venal could reimburse legal aid against the Crown Prosecution fat cat interested only in practising commercial law and Service where prosecution conduct leads to wasted costs, leaving the rest of the people to rot, I have an interesting long trial extensions and so on; a strategy for decriminalising e-mail from a young solicitor in my constituency. Jed minor offences and reducing the use of custody through Pennington, who has a good law degree from Cambridge restorative justice alternatives; and making savings from university, turned down work in the commercial sector the administrative budget. to work pro bono on many other things and on legal aid the rest of the time. He, like many others, is not a fat cat Liberal Democrat lawyers oppose the proposed changes lawyer. They are doing it because they believe in justice. and the Liberal Democrat party as a whole opposes the changes. I believe that the Liberal Democrat parliamentary Matrix and Bindmans have pointed out that the party should oppose those changes, and that is the proposed savings are nonsense. The cost increase will be message that I want to send today. at least £24 million if the proposals go through. It is time for this House to assert itself and listen to organisations such as the Islington Law Centre, which does great 3.38 pm work in pointing out that loss of legal aid is loss of right and loss of justice. Reject it. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for reducing the speaking time and ensuring that all Members are called. There is a message 3.42 pm here: I hope we have another debate, at greater length, Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): It is a disgrace that the when we can have a vote on this important topic. Secretary of State is not here, but hon. Members should Although it is always regrettable when the Secretary of count themselves lucky that there is a Minister here at State cannot be present, the good news is that he will all, because in yesterday’s Westminster Hall debate on be before the Justice Committee next week, so we legal aid in Wales, secured by the hon. Member for will be able to ask him a few questions there. Ceredigion (Mr Williams), we had a Whip replying, 557 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 558

[Nia Griffith] 3.46 pm rather than a Justice Minister. I hope that today the Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): I Minister will be able to respond to two very important congratulate the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah points. One concerns a pilot. It seems that the idea of Teather) on securing this important debate. firms having to tender will be rolled out across the When the Bill that became the Legal Aid, Sentencing whole country without even first trying a simple pilot. and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 was being debated, A pilot scheme is absolutely essential. The other issue is I genuinely thought that things could not get much the time scale. The way the proposals are being brought worse—that the Government would not go any further forward is so rushed. in what appears to be a crusade to dismantle universal access to justice—but I was wrong. Since then we have Steve Brine: Will the hon. Lady give way? had the deeply worrying Justice and Security Act 2013, and now we have these proposals for secondary legislation Nia Griffith: I will not, because of the time available. that will deny access to legal aid to some of the most There seems to be absolutely no time to consider the vulnerable and disadvantaged in our communities. Like proposals, certainly for small firms. If they are to many other hon. Members, I have been lobbied extensively contemplate trying to work together, they will need far by my constituents who share my passion about the more time to put together their tender and fully understand importance of a justice system that supports the right how it would work. to a fair trial. Yet that right is being fundamentally I come from the Dyfed Powys area, which is the undermined, with precious few opportunities for MPs largest police force area in England and Wales. It takes to scrutinise the details or to object. three and a half hours, for those who know the roads Much has already been said about the impact of well, to drive from Llanelli to Machynlleth. The idea price competition tendering. I simply point out that that only four firms could provide for that vast rural many legal experts in my constituency have told me that area is complete nonsense. Many local solicitors will be if the changes go ahead, then cost becomes the determining unable to participate and will effectively lose all the factor, not quality, with the inevitable result of a huge business. That means the clients will be unable to access loss of knowledge and expertise that will never be the justice they need, never mind access to specialised recovered. One of them notes that the effect will be areas or in the Welsh language. Even one of the larger more delays in court and a detrimental impact on firms in the area, which is obviously very small by victims and defendants in the criminal justice system. national standards, has said that it cannot see itself The system is already under immense pressure and only tendering through the process. It is absolutely essential works because of committed judges, court staff, probation that clients have a choice. As many Conservative Members officers, barristers and solicitors who do what needs to have pointed out, it is quite ironic that a Conservative be done out of professional duty and pride. Another Government are proposing to eliminate choice. Many expert issues this stark warning: clients have problematic backgrounds. They want to go to somebody they know who may also know their “PCT will in all likelihood destroy the independent criminal bar. A Bar that is held in the highest esteem throughout the world family, their circumstances and the community they and which continues to adapt to a changing landscape.” come from. We hear about all the stereotypes of clients who need A constituent who works as a defence solicitor describes legal aid, but Thompsons Solicitors has pointed out the likely impact of another proposal—namely, people that it will often be used by someone to clear their having no choice about who represents them and the name, such as a paramedic or teaching assistant who creation of a single fixed fee payable regardless of has been wrongly accused of assault or suchlike. My whether an individual pleads guilty. He says: hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown) “The right to a fair trial will no longer be assured. Innocent made an extremely compelling case for the use of legal people will end up in jail. Vulnerable and high maintenance aid not only for judicial review but for the preparations defendants will be left unrepresented. The high maintenance clients will create delays and inevitable injustices in the Court and leading up to it. JR is vital in holding our public the vulnerable or weak will have inadequate protection from the services to account and avoiding many other complications police looking to meet their government imposed disposal stats. for the clients involved further down the line. In practice this will mean them accepting cautions at the police The real threat that these proposals pose to justice is station and pleading guilty at court for offences they haven’t that people may be tempted to plead guilty rather than committed. The police will have ‘solved’ many crimes. But it is innocent. That is extremely worrying; it really is a recipe unjust, and with criminal records, those affected will be prevented for miscarriages of justice. As for people trying to from becoming teachers, lawyers, doctors and MPs.” represent themselves, we should think about how that I want to end with a few words about the judicial will clog up our courts, which will be completely review process. Like many other hon. Members, I overwhelmed. With the current staffing levels in courts, am deeply concerned about these proposals utterly people already have difficulties in trying to get information, undermining the JR process, which is one of the most and they will not be able to cope. important ways of achieving public body accountability. Absolutely fundamental in all this is the fact that Environmental cases, social welfare cases, and cases there is no redress for the ordinary person. We have seen about library closures, schools and so on were all this time and again with this Government, whether it is done by way of judicial review. A consortium of non- in trying to damage the employment tribunal system or governmental organisations working with refugees and trying to drive down wages in the context of rising migrants has commented: prices. Every which way we look, it is the poor and the “In our opinion the proposed change would result in an vulnerable who suffer. I very much hope that the increase in unlawful decisions relating to access to services with Government will look again at these proposals. disastrous effects on the individual and/or an increase in the 559 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 560 number of individuals who seek to ask the court to intervene I pay tribute to all 32 Members who have contributed without the assistance of a properly qualified representative. This to today’s debate. I agree with much that has been said is not in the interests of justice.” and look forward to the Minister’s response. Will he The homelessness charity, Shelter, has also raised clarify whether the changes will require primary legislation concerns: and when parliamentarians will have a chance to vote “Judicial review is the main mechanism Shelter uses to ensure on the proposals? My right hon. Friend the Member for local authorities meet their legal duties to help homeless people.” Tottenham (Mr Lammy) spoke about dividing the House It has stated that the proposals to limit legal aid funding this afternoon. I tell him that although we have a for judicial review will have a significant impact on the limited number of Opposition days, in the light of the ability of people on low incomes to question council Government’s failure to move on this issue, it will be a decisions and, ultimately, priority for us. We will have a debate on a motion that divides the House because of the issues that have been “will make it even more difficult for us to help homeless families raised this afternoon. find a place to stay for the night.” The Government’s latest proposals on legal aid are The environmental charity, WWF, warns: this Parliament’s second attack on access to justice. “These measures will significantly affect our ability to protect Social welfare legal aid has been decimated. We were the environment… Individuals and civil society groups should accused of scaremongering during the passage of those not be denied their fundamental constitutional right to check an proposals. However, law centres have closed—we hear abuse of power and protect the environment on the basis of today that the law centre in Birmingham will be closed— costs-cutting.” leaving the most vulnerable without recourse when they Moreover, the Coalition for Access to Justice for suffer wrong decisions by the Government and other the Environment has found no evidence to support the organs of the state. In the recent past, more than claims that the changes are justified because the Government 600,000 people have been denied access to advice in are overwhelmed by judicial reviews on planning issues. areas such as social welfare, debt, employment and That is not the case, nor are there any data to support a housing law. There has been a 30% fall in the providers credible claim that judicial review is a significant impediment of civil legal aid and a 12% fall in the providers of to economic progress. criminal legal aid. None of those providers was a fat cat If the planned changes go ahead, they will seriously or ambulance chaser. damage public access to justice, the equality of citizen It is disappointing that the Justice Secretary is not and state before the law, and our ability to hold the here. If he was, he would have heard 30 mini tutorials Government accountable. on our legal system. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) would know all about that. Fundamental to our legal system is a 3.50 pm presumption of innocence. A decision on guilt is taken Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): I congratulate the by a court of law only after the evidence for and against Backbench Business Committee on holding this debate. a prosecution is presented and cross-examined in an open and transparent manner. Due process needs to The Justice Secretary may be a rising star in the happen. After all, removing an individual’s liberty is Conservative party, but this policy and his non-appearance one of the most important powers in the gift of the this afternoon are misjudgments. More than 30 Members state. Properly administered legal aid means that all of Parliament have applied to speak on a Thursday individuals charged with a criminal offence have legal when there is a one-line Whip and more than 98,000 people representation, not just those who can afford it, and have signed a petition expressing concern about the ensures that our country’s precious rule of law applies proposals. to everybody. Legal aid helps those who are wrongly I have only 10 minutes to address the various points accused to maintain their innocence, and ensures that that have been made, so I will rush through the most the state proves, beyond reasonable doubt, the case pressing of them. First, I will make the position of the against a defendant. Please note that I use the word Opposition clear. We support efforts to find savings defendant, not criminal. I do not, unlike others, make across the justice system. We support making those who sweeping generalisations that all those who receive legal can afford to pay their legal fees do so and restricting aid are guilty criminals. The last time I checked, we still legal aid to those who are most in need. We support had a presumption of innocence in this country. using the frozen assets of criminals to fund their legal Many miscarriages of justice have happened because costs. We would support moves to address the problem of an absence of proper representation for defendants: of very high-cost cases. We would support a root-and- the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four, the Maguire branch review of our criminal justice system to cut out Seven and others. Because of legal aid, victims have the waste and inefficiency that anyone who works in the confidence that genuine perpetrators of crime are prosecuted sector or has used it knows is rampant. and punished. Victims of crime want certainty that the We do not support the Government’s proposals to true perpetrator has been found guilty. They do not place the quantity of cases processed ahead of the want the wrong person pleading guilty or being found quality of legal provision and to remove choice from guilty, and they certainly do not want the guilty walking defendants. We believe that those proposals could lead the streets. Legal representation for defendants is crucial to more miscarriages of justice. We do not support legal in minimising miscarriages of justice. These proposals aid being run by the same global corporations that run introduce perverse incentives that could unbalance the prisons, probation services, courts and tagging. I should criminal justice system, with representatives being paid say that those are the proposals not just of the Justice the same whether someone pleads guilty or stands trial. Secretary or the Conservative party, but of the Government, The Justice Secretary may not have turned up this including the Liberal Democrats and Lord McNally. afternoon, but he has sought to portray legal aid solicitors 561 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 562

[Sadiq Khan] He said: “It could permanently damage the provision of criminal legal and junior barristers as fat cats. He knows that the aid.” profession has a public relations problem, and he has He knew that the proposals could mean a generation of sought to exploit that in the media to further his own lawyers leaving the profession and that once they are political aims. That is all a tough veneer that masks the gone, they are gone. I see from recent press reports that real impact of his proposals. Local providers, often high he is unhappy at current plans, which are even worse street firms that know their local authorities, courts, than the ones he opposed when in opposition. police and probation, will be replaced by big corporations, I note from the look on your face, Mr Deputy Speaker, maybe even the same ones that run prisons, probation that— and tagging—conflicts of interest at every turn. Strangely for a party that claims to be pro-enterprise and pro the high street, this will sweep away hundreds of small and Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): It is 4 o’clock medium-sized enterprises. High street firms will go under, and we need to hear from the Minister. an unintended consequence that will have an impact on the diversity of the judiciary. Sadiq Khan: Notwithstanding your generosity in allowing the debate to carry on, Mr Deputy Speaker, time means The driver of the new contracts is how many cases that you have cut my comments short. I understand can be done at the lowest cost per unit, not the quality that, but may I say that it is unacceptable for the of the legal representation provided. Why else propose Government to be railroading these plans through, with to pay the same fee regardless of whether there is a no pilots, no proper consultation and no working with guilty or not guilty plea? It is as if Ministers do not key stakeholders to see whether savings could be made know the substantial difference in work load between in a less oppressive way? We oppose the current plans, the two pleas. In an era when so much in the public but we are happy to work with the Government, with or sector is about choice, the opposite will happen in legal without the Justice Secretary, to see whether we can aid. People will get what they are given, whether it is make savings that are less unjust. rubbish or good. The state will prosecute people and decide who defends them. The Justice Secretary would 4pm not accept a special adviser—also paid for by the taxpayer —or the external legal advice relied on by his Department, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice to be imposed on him. Nor would he accept where (Jeremy Wright): May I start, as others have, by declaring his children go to school being decided by someone an interest, as a non-practising barrister? I practised in else. Why then should someone who is facing serious the field of criminal law and a great deal of what I did allegations, but is presumed innocent, have no choice in was legal aid work. I congratulate the hon. Member for their solicitor? Brent Central (Sarah Teather) and the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) on securing this debate, Lawyers who have the confidence of defendants are which has been a very good, and understandably passionate, more able to give robust advice, for example for a one. Having listened to a good deal of mock outrage defendant to plead guilty when the evidence determines from Opposition Members about the absence of the that that is the best course of action. A lawyer who has Secretary of State and their being stuck with me—I am acted in previous cases will know about a client’s learning trying not to take it personally—it is worth my reminding difficulties, language and other problems that may be them of two previous occasions when we have discussed relevant to their current case, leading to a more efficient matters of great importance in the context of justice legal system that saves money. policy. The last statement in this House on a justice Let me be clear and save the Minister’s time. He matter was about the rehabilitation reforms. It was a talked about Labour wanting to spend more, but we statement that Opposition Members had called for would make savings to the legal aid budget. We did so in repeatedly, but the shadow Secretary of State was not government, as many legal aid lawyers keep reminding here for it. Neither was he here the last time we had me. Despite what the Government claim, our legal aid questions on justice matters, when we covered a range budget was not increasing: of important issues, including legal aid. I am sure we “The Government’s legal aid bill increased very substantially would not want to read too much into that, just as I am in real terms between around 1965 and 2000, but it has been cut sure Opposition Members would not want to read too since then”. much into the Secretary of State’s absence today. As Those are not my words, but those of the President of hon. Members have said, he will be appearing before the Supreme Court, Lord Neuberger, last week. The the Justice Committee next week to discuss this very hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) matter. also talked about cost pressures on solicitors as a result of Labour proposals. However, they did not lead to Sadiq Khan: Why does the Minister not just share defendants being denied choice. In government, we did with us where the Secretary of State is? look at a version of price competitive tendering. We looked and we considered, but we recognised that it was Jeremy Wright: I note that the right hon. Gentleman fraught with danger and thought better of it. Back in did not take the opportunity to share where he was the 2009, the current Attorney-General, the then shadow last two times, but I suggest that we might want to move Justice Secretary, supported that decision. He actually on. committed the Conservatives to suspending the scheme, This is an important debate, as hon. Members from claiming: all parts of the House have said. Before I try to respond “We really should be concerned about the lasting damage that to a number of the specific points made—the House could be done if we’ve got this wrong”. will understand that the time constraints we face mean 563 Legal Aid Reform27 JUNE 2013 Legal Aid Reform 564 that I will not be able to respond to everything, and I ahead. We are looking carefully at the 16,000 responses apologise for that in advance—let me say something to the consultation, and, with reference to what my hon. about the context of these reforms. Friend the Member for Brent Central said, I can reassure It is right to say that the previous round of legal aid the House that I and my ministerial colleagues will treat reforms, culminating in the Legal Aid, Sentencing and everything said in this debate as important contributions Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, will have already to that process. We will listen carefully to what has been removed about £320 million from the legal aid budget said today as well as to what was said in the consultation. by 2014-15, but those proposals were primarily focused We are duty bound to ensure, however, that taxpayers’ on civil legal aid scope and eligibility. Alongside those money is spent only where it is justified and only on changes, we have made sweeping reforms to the central those who genuinely need the state’s assistance. The administration of the legal aid system. We have strengthened taxpayers, who fund the legal aid scheme, have every accountability and introduced a more rigorous approach right to demand that their money be well spent and to to financial management by creating the Legal Aid ask important questions. They have a right to ask why Agency. But the successful delivery of that programme the taxpayer should be paying the legal costs of the very has not eliminated the need for reform. In order to meet wealthiest Crown court defendants up front; why the the ongoing financial challenges facing the justice system, taxpayer should be paying for criminal legal aid for which many who have spoken have recognised, the claims made by prisoners that can be better resolved by Government have had to look again at the cost of civil other means—I will return in a moment to prisoner legal aid, as well as turning their attention to arguably law— and why the taxpayer should pay the legal costs the most difficult part of the legal aid reform agenda: of those with no strong connection to the UK. the reform of criminal legal aid. As others have said, our legal aid budget is disproportionately high. My hon. Friend the Member Mr Lammy: The saving the Government would make for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) made that by looking at civil legal aid is £6 million in relation to point very effectively. We have an extremely good legal judicial review. Does that really make it necessary to system—it is greatly admired and, as others have said, it run a coach and horses through judicial review? contributes significantly to our society—but that does not mean that it should be immune to the realities that Jeremy Wright: The position is, as I have just said, the Government face. Efficiencies have to be made, and that the bulk of the work done under the 2012 Act dealt reform is the mechanism for achieving them. with civil legal aid and the bulk of the work being done under these proposals will deal with criminal legal aid. Mr Lammy: No one is suggesting that there should The total value of the savings that these reforms would not be reform. Has the Minister considered the fact that make if fully implemented as currently proposed would 45% of criminal legal aid goes on high-cost cases, many be £220 million by 2018-19. That is a significant figure, involving bank fraud? Why does he not ask the banking given our financial circumstances. industry to come up with an insurance scheme and take Many hon. Members have questioned the need for that out, rather than dismantling the whole system? further reform, while others have said we should go much further. My hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) made an interesting speech about more Jeremy Wright: The right hon. Gentleman is right radical options we could pursue. The answer is simple: that very high-cost criminal cases are an important area criminal legal aid accounts for £1 billion of the overall for us to focus on, and we propose to take about 30% of legal aid budget, and in the current financial climate, the cost of those cases out of the system, but he would the Government, being committed to eradicating the be wrong to assume that those cases, on their own, deficit and the national debt, cannot overlook such a could achieve the savings we need to make. We need to sizeable portion of Government spending. We have had look more broadly. to make extremely tough choices in other areas, and it I want to turn to the particular proposals and concerns would not be right to exclude this one. that hon. Members have concentrated on. Many Members Many hon. Members have said that we should look have focused on the effect of the proposals on smaller for savings in other areas of the criminal justice system. firms and on the issue of price competitive tendering. In My hon. Friend the Member for Meon Valley (George 2011, we said that competitive tendering would likely be Hollingbery) made that point, as did my hon. Friend the best way to ensure long-term sustainability and the Member for Dewsbury (Simon Reevell), my right value for money in the legal aid market. Some Members hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden were concerned that this was a new idea suddenly (Mr Davis), my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney springing into the political landscape, but of course that (Peter Aldous) and the hon. Members for Hackney is not the case. Indeed, the right hon. Member for South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) and for Leeds Tooting (Sadiq Khan)was gracious enough to point out North West (Greg Mulholland). All of them were right that the idea was first considered under his Government. about the importance of looking at other areas. I think In March 2010, the last Government produced a Green we heard some good suggestions today, and of course Paper entitled, “Restructuring the Delivery of Criminal the Government will look in all those areas for savings, Defence Services”. Among other things, it said: too, but that does not get us away from the need to keep “Currently the criminal defence service is highly fragmented, the legal aid budget under proper scrutiny. with a large number of small suppliers and relatively few large suppliers….We believe that these market trends are not sustainable. The package of proposals on which we have consulted Therefore we believe a future tendering process would ensure a is intended to ensure that our legal aid system commands more consolidated market, with a smaller number of more efficient the confidence of the public—that is important—and suppliers, required to undertake the full range of the services we remains financially viable both now and in the years need.” 565 Legal Aid Reform 27 JUNE 2013 566

[Jeremy Wright] Multinational Companies and UK Corporation Tax That is what the Labour party thought in 2010, and lest we should run away with the thought that it has changed [Relevant documents: Ninth Report from the Committee its view since then, let me quote from what I am sure is a of Public Accounts, Tax Avoidance–Google, HC 112; very well-read blog written in October 2011 by the right Forty-fourth Report from the Committee of Public Accounts, hon. Member for Tooting. He said—as, to be fair, he Session 2012-13, Tax avoidance: the role of large accountancy also said today—that: firms, HC 870; Twenty-ninth Report from the Committee “I recognise that cuts need to be made…I would have carried of Public Accounts, Session 2012-13, Tax avoidance: through a new scheme for contracting of solicitors for criminal tackling marketed avoidance schemes, HC 788, and the legal aid and lowered criminal defence advocate fees in the Crown Treasury Minute, Cm 8613; Nineteenth Report from Court…This more efficient contracting of legal services from the Committee of Public Accounts, Session 2012-13, solicitors has bizarrely not been implemented by the coalition HM Revenue & Customs: Annual Report and Accounts government”. 2011-12, HC 716, and the Treasury Minute, Cm 8556.] So he criticises us for not doing it, then he comes here and criticises us for proposing to do it. 4.12 pm Another point that has been made repeatedly today is Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con): I beg the effect that the proposals could have on smaller to move, firms. I need to make it clear that the proposed competition That this House has considered the matter of multinational model would see the number of contracts, not the companies and UK corporation tax. number of firms, reduced from 1,600 to 400. Our proposals do not prescribe how many lawyers should be available I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee or how those that have the contracts should divide up for giving the House the opportunity to debate the the work allocated to them. important issue of corporation tax and the avoidance of tax by multinational corporations. I was keen to see this The matter of client choice has also been raised by debate take place, not only because of the gravity of the many hon. Members today. We have listened carefully issue but because of the efforts that two local retailers, to the concerns that have been raised not only in the Frances and Keith Smith of Warwick and Kenilworth debate but by those who responded to the consultation. Books, have taken to raise the profile of the matter. Let me reassure the House that quality-assured duty They have launched a petition, which has gathered solicitors and lawyers will still be available, just as they 170,000 signatures, calling on Amazon UK to pay UK are now. The Legal Aid Agency will need to ensure, as corporation tax, and I would like to pay tribute to their part of the tendering process, that all providers are public spiritedness and determination in pursuit of this capable of delivering the full range of criminal legal aid cause. Individuals can make a difference in politics, as I services across their procurement areas. That is also am sure hon. Members would agree, and we should true in relation to the points raised about rural sparsity encourage more citizens to take similar action. and about the Welsh language. The issue that I would like to put at the heart of the We have a number of things to consider, and we will debate is tax avoidance, rather than tax evasion, which consider them carefully. We will come back with our is illegal. I think all Members would strongly condemn conclusions in the autumn. I am grateful that the debate any kind of tax evasion. However, tax avoidance, sometimes has taken place today and for all the contributions that euphemistically called “tax planning”, is also a matter have been made. We will consider them properly and of serious concern. The case that Frances and Keith respond accordingly in the autumn. have raised illustrates the problem. Amazon made £4.3 billion in sales in the UK last year, but its subsidiary 4.11 pm Amazon UK paid only £2.4 million in corporate taxes. Sarah Teather: This has been an excellent and well- It does this by classifying itself as a service provider to informed debate. If there is one thing I hope the Minister its Luxembourg business Amazon EU Sarl in order to will take away and consider, it is that of the more than reduce its tax bill, yet its UK business employs over 30 contributions we have heard today, only one—in 4,200 people, compared with the 380 based in Luxembourg. addition to his own—was unequivocally in favour of Given the size of the UK market, it is laughable to the proposals. I hope that he will reflect on that. Liberal believe that Amazon UK is somehow serving the democracies cannot afford to get themselves into a Luxembourg portion of the business, but this is perfectly position in which they wield power over a citizen without legal and Amazon UK is not an isolated case. giving them a right to challenge. It would undermine However, this avoidance is not without its victims. It the rule of law if we afford citizens rights without giving is businesses such as Warwick Books in my constituency them the means to secure them. I hope that the Government and ordinary people who pick up the bill. Through this will consider these points carefully and come back with creative tax planning, the burden of taxation is shifted some very different proposals, which they will put to a on to individuals and businesses that do not have the vote in the House. resources to spend on reducing their tax bill and on Question put and agreed to. hiring expensive accountants to find loopholes in tax Resolved, law. That this House has considered legal aid reform. I understand that there are some who believe that businesses have a moral duty to pay only the absolute minimum of tax that they are legally obliged to pay, but I cannot believe that that is the case. Businesses, even multinational companies, are still members of society. They benefit from a strong education system, a functioning 567 Multinational Companies and UK 27 JUNE 2013 Multinational Companies and UK 568 Corporation Tax Corporation Tax health care system, decent roads, a transport infrastructure, order to clamp down on tax evasion, but HMRC also needs the police and our armed forces. The reason we raise to be more robust in the way it holds these companies to taxes is in order to produce public goods. We can argue account. whether the Government spend that money wisely, or whether the Government should provide this or that Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): Will service, but that is the basic principle behind taxation. the hon. Gentleman give way? Businesses have a moral responsibility to play a full Chris White: I would like to, but if the hon. Lady part in our society, and structuring their businesses in does not mind, we are very short of time. order to avoid taxation and to make it harder for tax These companies need to be held to account and we authorities to monitor their business is not fulfilling need to feel free to investigate fully the accounts of any that responsibility.Voluntarily paying tax is not a long-term company that we suspect might be seeking to avoid solution to this issue. What is needed is for multinational paying taxation. This highlights another issue, one that companies to take responsibility for their actions and is close to my heart and to that of many colleagues— respect the fact that they need to structure their businesses the future of our independent retailers. Warwick and to reflect the way they are operated, rather than merely Leamington is full of many excellent independent businesses, to avoid that taxation. which give our community its distinctive character, and If a company is legitimately servicing another company not only provide incomes for the owners, but hire local in another country, or needs to pay royalties as part of a residents and often give young people the chance to get franchise or needs to borrow money from its parent their first experience of work. abroad, I believe we can all understand that this should Times change, and I do not think any of us would be respected in the tax system. We do not wish to crush support or even want a situation where multinational enterprise, nor do we wish to penalise international companies were prevented from entering the workplace, businesses that invest in our country, but multinational but I think we all recognise the need for a mixed companies still need to play their part. The endless economy. We need independent, smaller businesses and game of cat and mouse, with tax authorities having to large multinational companies working together. We plug gaps and investigate subsidiaries, and multinational need to recognise that in the 21st century, the idea of companies developing ever more complicated legal the capitalist as some profit-making machine, uncaring structures to avoid paying tax, is simply unsustainable or unthinking about the effects of its business on wider and destructive. society is completely outdated. For the most part, I believe Many of these companies depend on individuals and that businesses recognise that. businesses buying their services, but as they avoid taxation, International progress is essential, and the Prime the Government have to find this revenue from other Minister should be applauded for his efforts at the G8 sources, reducing the profits and incomes of others and last week and the agreement that he secured. Britain leaving them with less to spend on other goods and cannot take unilateral action without significantly damaging services. The regulatory arms race between multinational our economic position, and while changes such as the companies and states seeking to raise revenue is also general anti-abuse rule are welcome, real progress will distracting. It is distracting the corporations from focusing only come from companies themselves. on productivity and creativity, and one wonders what marvels or products might have been created if multi- A model that we need to look at more closely is that nationals had put the effort they put into avoiding tax of social enterprises, but a successful 21st century global into developing new ideas, services and products. economy needs to be one that combines equity with entrepreneurship; principles with profit; responsibility Tax avoidance does not benefit our economy in the with reward. We are taking the first steps forwards by long term; that can only come through making our talking about this issue, but I hope that we can move economy more productive and more efficient. We need towards action in the years to come. to encourage businesses to focus on the real economy rather than on trying to enhance their profitability by Several hon. Members rose— avoiding taxation. The sheer mechanics of the situation make it clear Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I remind that action purely from the Government is unlikely to Members that there is a four-minute limit on speeches. be the solution to the problem. There are hundreds of thousands of multinational companies, and only a handful 4.23 pm of tax regimes capable of monitoring their information. Margaret Hodge (Barking) (Lab): I congratulate the It is always a game of catch-up, and while reforming tax hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris codes and greater enforcement may help, they will not White) on securing the debate and on his contribution, reach the nub of the problem. That is why I believe that with which I totally agree, and I congratulate my hon. we need to focus on the culture in international business, Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Paul on the structure of these businesses and the codes of Farrelly) on supporting him. conduct they abide by. Fundamentally, businesses are The vexed question of multinational companies and staffed by people, and if we put in place the right their failure to pay a fair share of corporation tax on frameworks, I believe that we can appeal to the better the profits they secure from the activities they undertake angels of their nature. This is the only long-term solution. in this country has struck an incredibly powerful chord I am realistic, however, and I appreciate that there with the British public. If we take the Amazon example, will always be corporations that are unwilling to contribute we find that in 2012 it had sales of £4 billion in the UK, to the public good and wish to shirk their responsibilities. yet it paid only £2.4 million in corporation tax, and That is why I am pleased that Her Majesty’s Revenue then took £2.5 million in grants from the UK Government. and Customs has been given additional resources in That is simply unacceptable. 569 Multinational Companies and UK 27 JUNE 2013 Multinational Companies and UK 570 Corporation Tax Corporation Tax [Margaret Hodge] a turnover of £28 billion and operating profits of £10 billion a year, yet they paid just £541 million in tax, an effective In this climate, people are finding it tough to manage tax rate of 5%, which goes down to about 3% if we take their daily income, there are public expenditure cuts into account those who have been declaring tax losses. and small businesses feel hounded by HMRC, so I can I have looked at two electricity companies, EDF and well understand why there is huge anger at the behaviour RWE npower, which have a collective total turnover of of multinational companies that seek so aggressively to £25.6 billion and operating profits of £1.7 billion, yet avoid paying their tax. I am particularly cross about the they paid no tax whatever. It cannot all be explained by argument, which so many of them put forward, that capital allowances. Foreign-owned utilities, particularly because they pay other taxes they can decide voluntarily in the water industry, have been engaging in schemes whether to pay corporation tax. We all pay our council using debt interest to avoid tax, which, on my calculations, tax, VAT and income tax; they pay business rates and have resulted in a loss to the Exchequer of about employer contributions, and should also pay their £1 billion over the last three years. corporation tax. Let us take the example of Southern Water, which I know the Minister is concerned that if we tread too covers the area I represent. Over the three most recent heavily on companies they may seek to relocate elsewhere, years for which figures are available, it generated more but I draw to his attention the remarks of Eric Schmidt, than £2 billion in turnover, operating profits of £767 million the chief executive of Google, who said that whatever and paid a net tax charge of £45.9 million. That is an we decide to do, his company would remain here, because effective tax rate of 6%. Yorkshire Water, over the last this is too important a market for it not to do so. I also three years, generated £2.6 billion in turnover, operating draw the Minister’s attention to the fact that feelings are profits of £990 million, and yet received a net tax credit so strong on this issue that we should not, in an attempt of £46.2 million. Anglian Water, over the last three to keep multinational corporations here, allow them to available years, generated £3.3 billion in turnover, operating blackmail us. Such corporations will stay because of the profits of £1.4 billion and paid a net tax charge of just market: they come here because we are outside the euro £124.7 million. That is an effective tax rate of 8.9%. and have a strong financial services sector, not because What concerns me particularly is that those companies our corporation tax regime treats them gently. have been abusing the interest deduction system. Over We must toughen up HMRC. It is unacceptable that the last three years, Southern Water made some there has not been one case challenging an internet £481.6 million of net interest and interest-related payments company on whether it pays a fair share of corporation to the multinational owners of group companies overseas. tax here. I am not convinced that such companies are According to my calculations, the tax forgone is a acting within the law, and until we challenge them we potential £125 million for the Exchequer. Yorkshire will not know whether I and the members of my Committee, Water, which is especially egregious in this respect, who I think feel the same as I do on the evidence we made £548.5 of net interest and interest-related payments have received, are right or wrong. Greater transparency to group companies. According to my calculations, is needed. Gone is the age when one could hide behind the tax forgone is £142 million. Anglian Water made taxpayer confidentiality; proper information should be £365 million of net interest and interest-related payments given to the public, whether it is a matter of opening up to group companies over the three most recent years for the books of the FTSE top 100 companies, or more which figures are available. According to my calculations, naming and shaming of people for tax avoidance. the tax forgone is some £95 million. We should be tougher on public procurement. I welcomed Over the three most recent years for which figures are the initiative, but its practical effect is much weaker available, EDF,which is owned by the French Government, than the original intent. We must simplify our tax made £268.4 million of interest payments to group code—six people working on that is not enough. In a companies. According to my calculations, the tax forgone climate in which multinationals value their reputation, is potentially £70 million, if we assume a corporation they see themselves in our market over the longer term, tax rate of about the average, 26%. Npower made and they, too— £58 million of interest payments to group companies. According to my calculations, the tax forgone is £93 million. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I am calling on the regulators to examine the position and to say that if the water companies, in particular, are 4.27 pm receiving too high a return in total, they should either be subject to a windfall tax or reduce customers’ bills. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): It is a pleasure to Tax-avoiding water companies, and other utility companies, speak in the debate, and I congratulate my hon. Friend should be made to give a rebate to hard-pressed customers the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) who have faced increased bills in recent years. I hope on securing it. that Ministers will consider the options available to Hard-working families want a better life for themselves them. In any event, tax law should be changed so that and their children. They go out each day, work hard, interest is no longer favoured over equity. Specifically, strive, and pay their taxes. They face increasing costs in interest payments from one group company to another some areas of their lives, particularly in rising household should not be tax-deductible. bills for gas, electricity and water. The average family have seen their annual household bills rise by £384 since 2010. 4.31 pm I am concerned about whether utility companies are Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab): I saw paying the appropriate amount of tax. I have done a this somewhat curtailed debate as an important opportunity study of nine water companies, which, collectively, have for other Back Benchers to add more power to the 571 Multinational Companies and UK 27 JUNE 2013 Multinational Companies and UK 572 Corporation Tax Corporation Tax elbow of the Public Accounts Committee, chaired so not classed as having a permanent establishment. It is forcefully by my right hon. Friend the Member for important that the OECD changes the rules as they are Barking (Margaret Hodge). The Committee has shone outdated, but we should not let our attention simply be a powerful spotlight not only on multinational tax deflected internationally as there are plenty of things dodgers but, importantly, on the timidity of HMRC. I we can do here. There is plenty that HMRC can do. To shall return to the subject of HMRC’s mindset a little see that only takes an examination of its rule book, and later. the double tax treaty with Luxembourg, and the test it Controversy over profit-shifting is hardly new—it has applies. With the tools at its disposal, it can push harder rumbled on for years—but, with the G8 only just over, here and now, to pursue this issue and raise billions of it is easy to forget that it is only a little over 12 months pounds for the hard-pressed coffers of the Treasury. since the issue finally gained enough traction to be given a place on the national agenda. I think that the 4.35 pm reasons for that are clear: it has happened because since the banking crash and the recession Treasury coffers Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I welcome the moves the are bare, because of the sheer cumulative scale of the Government have been making, but there is still a lot avoidance, because of the sheer size of the deposits held more to do. For example, Vodafone declares a profit of by United States multinationals offshore—at the last £2.5 billion in Luxembourg, where it has no business. It count, $83 billion was held offshore by Apple, the is incredibly easy for companies to export UK profits to biggest of them all—and because the companies themselves their country of choice. Luxembourg is often the country are so brazen. Eric Schmidt of Google said that he was of choice. It is used by Vodafone, Tesco, Pearson, the proud of what the company had done. He said: Daily Express group and many others. “It’s called capitalism. We are proudly capitalistic.” In fact, it is becoming almost compulsory to do this. This year, Apple put its money where its mouth was Low-risk, profitable businesses, such as utilities, have to silent. In May, in the world’s biggest corporate bond do it, otherwise they will be taken over, as most of them issue, it raised $17 billion in the United States. Given have been. That applies to trade takeovers too, such as the comfort of its offshore cash pile, it will pay even less those involving Boots and Cadbury. Under the system tax, because the interest is tax-deductible. here in the UK, it is almost impossible to be a long-term profitable company without doing this kind of activity. It is cheaper to borrow than to pay tax in those companies’ universe. They are perhaps not so much UK profits are exported. That is a key item in the “immoral”, as they were memorably described by my business case for takeovers, and now we have also got right hon. Friend the Member for Barking (Margaret the internet making all this even simpler. As many Hodge), as entirely amoral. However, HMRC is so meek companies have shown, companies can build up a huge that legislators would not have the necessary ammunition business in a country, apparently without being there. A without investigative journalists and campaigners prying little quoted part of HMRC’s own rules—I have not got into the shadows. It was a close friend and former time to read it out now—says it should be going after colleague of mine, Ian Griffiths, who combed Amazon’s these companies. It does not apply its own rules, so I accounts in Luxembourg and the United States last urge it to start getting tough and the OECD to start year. “A great deal for Amazon: £7 billion sales, no UK driving home the simple principle that if a company corporation tax” was the headline on the front page of sells in a country, it must account for that there and owe The Guardian. In February last year, Simon Duke wrote taxes there. Until then everyone will be climbing on the an in-depth piece in The Sunday Times about Facebook bandwagon—or should I say the Trainline, which now entitled “The Anti-Social Network”. He tracked the apparently routes its ticket sales through Luxembourg? way in which the social website had deliberately organised I firmly believe the key reason for flat UK growth is the avoidance of millions in tax, routeing revenues through that so much of our UK economic activity is no longer Dublin à la Google. A series of exposés followed on counted here. Has productivity really fallen so much different companies—“the untaxables”, as the newspaper that 1 million extra people are producing no extra called them—and kept up the pressure. output, or is that because, for example, Amazon, one of The third journalistic push came from Reuters, an our fastest-growing businesses, is not actually here, and organisation for which I once worked as a journalist. is therefore saving vast amounts of tax? Following his investigation of Starbucks, Tom Bergin It is time for Brussels to deal with the cuckoos in the revealed that rather than reducing sales booked in the EU nest. Ireland, Luxembourg and the Netherlands United Kingdom, like Google and Amazon, it loaded have arrangements that routinely enable tax avoidance. its United Kingdom operation with so many costs I am sure the free movement of capital was never meant that little or no UK profit was apparently made. Two to mean the free removal of taxes. International work is campaigners have also been at the forefront of these vital. For example, are the Government dealing with investigations: Richard Brooks, a former tax inspector, scams used by banks? They can create instruments that and Richard Murphy, an accountant and founder of are traded between countries with different tax regimes, the Tax Justice Network. I urge the people at HMRC to and with a bit of fancy footwork create a net tax read their recent books closely, as I entirely agree with reduction manufactured out of thin air. the PAC report of last year that criticised the mindset I welcome the moves to greater transparency, but of HMRC in not being more assertive in pursuing there is a long way to go. I recommend the recent multinational tax avoidance. Private Eye article, “Where there’s muck, there’s brass We have heard about how absurd it is for HMRC to plates”, which has highlighted that over 11,000 UK accept the way that Amazon does business; that flies in limited liability partnerships have been set up since that the face of common sense. Despite the scale of its was enabled by the last Government and they are now operations here, its overseas Luxembourg subsidiary is one of the corporate vehicles of choice for the world’s 573 Multinational Companies and UK 27 JUNE 2013 Multinational Companies and UK 574 Corporation Tax Corporation Tax [Ian Swales] revenue. I know the companies pay local rates and national insurance and have employees who pay tax too, but that money launderers and tax avoiders. They provide a magic does not excuse the times when they trouser our support mix of UK respectability and absolutely no transparency and avoid corporation tax. Will the Government review or scrutiny. Action is needed. the company support criteria in such cases? If companies The Government obviously work regularly with advisers like Amazon are not going to deliver, perhaps it is time on tax matters, but who are they? They are top finance that we all had a refund. directors, who will almost certainly be engaged in tax avoidance, and big four tax partners who make a very 4.42 pm juicy living from advising on how to avoid tax. I recommend Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): I that the Government add people who are involved in strongly welcome the cross-party will among Back Benchers tax campaigning, as well as campaigning journalists, to bring this incredibly important issue to the House. global poverty campaigners and other experts who do The estimates of how much is lost to the British not have a vested interest in tax avoidance and who can economy through tax avoidance in its many forms go see how toxic the current system is. up to in the region of £120 billion. Lots of people have In a speech in January I went into more detail about different figures, but there is no doubt that if we could the solutions. Today, I will just make one recommendation. get on top of the issue—not of tax evasion, when people It is time to cap the allowable offshore royalty and illegally do not pay their taxes, but of tax avoidance—many interest payments, possibly by only allowing a double of our other debates in this House about the deficit and taxation relief—in other words people only get tax relief so on would be skewered. We face a major challenge, as on interest if they have paid tax on it somewhere else. over decades we have reached a situation in which we do Secondly, we should set up new systems to police our not collect the taxes we need to pay for the services we national borders— want to provide in the communities we represent. We need to reach some sort of solution so that we can Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. Time collect those taxes. is up. I call Nick Smith. It is interesting that in this Back-Bench debate we have heard people from different political parties speaking 4.39 pm with one voice. One of the problems in the debate is that Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): In the past 15 years, for a long time the leaderships of the parties have not the world of e-commerce has become a fundamental had the political courage to take on the multinationals. part of our lives. It has shaped the way companies do If we reflect on the speeches we have heard today and business, how money is handled and many of our read Hansard tomorrow, we will see that it is notable shopping habits, but it has also changed the nature of that these companies are household names. They are business on a global scale and therefore our ability to not the kinds of companies that would move out of levy a fair level of taxation has fallen behind. Britain. To suggest that Starbucks, Amazon, Vodafone, In my work with the Public Accounts Committee, I npower, Google or HSBC will pack up their bags, move have seen the massive rewards for e-commerce leaders. away and stop making profits out of our constituents is As has been pointed out, Amazon alone made £4.3 billion ludicrous. The reality is not that progress will be made of sales last year in the UK, yet by running its sales only by the companies themselves. Yes, we need to through Luxembourg it paid a meagre £2.4 million tax change the culture in companies. Yes, we need to name bill in 2012. That is less than one tenth of 1% of sales and shame. But as politicians we have to change the and that is just not good enough. rules of the debate. That means changes in law so that It would be remiss to ignore the thousands of jobs we are far tougher on those who avoid taxes but also that such companies have created, but when our grants tackle those who evade taxes. to those companies outpace the returns in tax, questions Paul Farrelly: Does my hon. Friend agree that we must be asked. In Wales alone, the Welsh Government should use our influence within the European Union to, have thrown millions at Amazon to bring it to Swansea. as the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) said, sort An £8.8 million regional selective assistance grant was out the cuckoos in the nest who provide effective tax given to bring the company into the city, while a £3 million havens? Will she join me in congratulating Senator link road entitled “Amazon way” finished construction Philippe Marini, president of the French Senate finance late last year. So, we have a regional Government supporting committee, who has been in the vanguard in Europe of regeneration and jobs, but the money from the Treasury pressing for concerted European action? used to fund that growth is not being recovered. The Public Accounts Committee, of which I am a Katy Clark: I congratulate all those who are working member, concluded that Her Majesty’s Revenue and to get international agreements to tackle this problem, Customs needs real teeth to be able to challenge the including the British Government. artificial nature of how businesses set up to avoid tax, as The reality is that we also have to look at what we are well as to be able to push against antiquated international doing here and now. Since 2005, we have lost 37,000 jobs tax laws. It is time for the Government to get a grip on in HMRC. We expect to lose another 10,000 tax inspectors tax avoidance. by 2015. No doubt the Government will come back and E-commerce will increase as our appetite for doing say that there are slight increases in the numbers of staff our business online grows exponentially. Perhaps when in specialist and criminal investigations, but they are he sums up, the Minister will reflect on examples such only one part of the team that looks at all these issues. as the double benefit gained by Amazon thanks to the We have to highlight clearly the use of tax havens by incentives it has received to set up in Wales and other FTSE companies—98 out of the top 100 use them. We places while we still suffer the loss of corporation tax have to say that roughly one in five of the world’s tax 575 Multinational Companies and UK 27 JUNE 2013 Multinational Companies and UK 576 Corporation Tax Corporation Tax havens are the responsibility of the UK and that the use something has gone very wrong in the system when a of those tax havens is estimated to cost the UK £18.5 billion large multinational company can make £1.2 billion-worth a year. These issues need to be tackled internationally, of sales in this country and describe itself to investors but we have a lot to do at home. as profitable, yet report no UK tax liability. We need to build a consensus in all political parties It is not only UK taxpayers who pay the price of such that we need tax laws which ensure that multinationals profits shifting, although the loss to the Exchequer is pay their due in this country. Unless we do that, a lot of significant, and my hon. Friend the Member for North the other debates in this place, whether on legal aid or Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark) powerfully argued the how we fund hospitals or education, are nonsense. We case for why this is so important to the UK Exchequer. need the money to go forward. Perhaps one of the Such behaviour totally undermines the notion of a level things that comes out of this financial crisis will be a commercial playing field by putting at a serious recognition that all parts of society must make their disadvantage responsible firms that pay their fair share contribution. Some of the companies that we have been of tax on profits generated in this country, as well as talking about today should be at the top of the list for employ thousands of people here and pay all the associated ensuring that we all pay our way. taxes. There are those who believe that the problem is just too difficult, too complicated, too entrenched to 4.47 pm tackle, and I suspect that that is what some people— especially those who are involved in that sort of activity— Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) would like us to think, but we believe that there are (Lab): Let me begin by commending the hon. Member measures that the Government could and should be for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) for securing instigating right now to end the era of tax secrecy and this Backbench Business Committee debate, ably supported move us toward the greater transparency that is so by my hon. Friends the Members for Newcastle-under- desperately required if we are to rebuild confidence in Lyme (Paul Farrelly) and for Paisley and Renfrewshire our tax system. North (Jim Sheridan). To give him his due, the Prime Minister committed to Once again, we find ourselves discussing the challenge putting tax avoidance at the top of the G8 agenda when of corporate taxation—an issue which increasingly agitates world leaders met in Northern Ireland last week, and not just businesses up and down the country but members many people—including several million campaigners of the public. The mood could not really be better for tax transparency—had high hopes for what could be exemplified than by the constituents of the hon. Member achieved through the UK presidency of the G8. Ahead for Warwick and Leamington, who run the independent of the summit, we called on the UK to push for an bookshop Warwick Books. As the hon. Gentleman internationally agreed system of country-by-country outlined, Francis and Keith Smith achieved quite a reporting in which multinational corporations, regardless remarkable feat by gathering 170,000 signatures for of sector, would be required to publish a simple statement their petition calling on a certain online bookseller to of the amount of tax they pay. We believe that that pay its fair share of corporate tax. They highlighted the information should incorporate multinational revenues, fact that last year the company made £3.3 billion of profits and taxes paid in every country in which they sales in the UK, yet it is not registered to pay corporation operate, and include the key pieces of information that tax here. enable people, whether they are experts or not, properly The hon. Gentleman’s constituents and I have something to assess the amount of tax they pay. That would also in common in that we both studied at Northumbria benefit British consumers by enabling them to make university. I also understand that one of them once informed choices about the companies they buy from. worked at Fenwick’s, which is a great Newcastle department The G8 leaders’ communiqué stated: store. So it is enough to convince me of their pedigree. “We call on the OECD to develop a common template for We have had a thoughtful and productive debate, country-by-country reporting to tax authorities by major multinational with excellent contributions from both sides of the enterprises, taking account of concerns regarding non-cooperative Chamber. All hon. Members have noted the cross-party jurisdictions.” agreement, certainly on the problem and the diagnosis, That is a serious step in the right direction, but we need if not necessarily on the cure. I commend my right hon. to see far more detail and we need to see it soon. Friend the Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge) for Today, we have heard about various tricks used by her contribution, for her powerful chairing of the Public multinationals to minimise or avoid their tax liability in Accounts Committee, and for the work it has done, and this country—for example, shifting profits and using I commend all the members of the Committee who complex corporate tax structures. It is increasingly clear have raised this issue in the eyes of the public. that we have failed to keep pace with the changes, and At the beginning of this year, my right hon. Friends my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and the Leader of the Opposition and the shadow Chancellor Arran talked about the resources HMRC needs to laid down a challenge to the Government to end the era tackle the problem. We need progress on transparency if of tax secrecy and to use the G8 presidency to do that, we are to put a stop to multinational and global companies both by showing international leadership and by taking hiding behind an unacceptable veil of secrecy about action here at home. I think we all agree that sometimes their tax. there are good reasons why companies pay little, reduced or even no tax: some firms are investing large sums in 4.53 pm research and development, assets and infrastructure, The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David and where that is done for genuine commercial reasons Gauke): We have had a short but useful debate. I and not simply to minimise their tax liability, it is to be congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick welcomed and has to be acknowledged in the tax system. and Leamington (Chris White) on securing it and thank However, as I have said previously in this Chamber, the Backbench Business Committee for granting it. 577 Multinational Companies and UK 27 JUNE 2013 Multinational Companies and UK 578 Corporation Tax Corporation Tax [Mr David Gauke] issue here because very often the law that applies to large businesses encompasses international law, OECD Rightly, this issue has received much greater scrutiny arrangements and what is set out in double taxation in recent months. The public anger is understandable agreements. The point was raised about the definition and not surprising, given that difficult decisions are of “permanent establishment”. That is set out not just being made on the public finances and the vast majority in domestic legislation, but in international law. We of people pay the taxes they owe, and the perception is have led the way in encouraging the OECD to look at that some companies are not contributing their fair what needs to be done to improve the international share or complying with the law. situation, to make sure that the base erosion and profit- We should say at the outset, and the hon. Member for shifting work can ensure that the tax rules are all up to Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) date for the internet world. was right to say, that there can be occasions where it is We have had a very short debate, and in this very entirely legitimate for a company not to be paying short speech and the time available to me I cannot do corporation tax if it is making use of reliefs or capital justice to all the points that were raised. Let me say in allowances in the way that Parliament intended. It is conclusion that HMRC has robust methods in place to also the case—there can be confusion about this—that ensure that tax compliance by the biggest businesses corporation tax is a tax on profits, not a tax on sales. It occurs, and the numbers support that. We have used our is also worth remembering that we do collect significant international position to make sure that there is progress sums of corporation tax from large businesses. But in bringing international tax law up to date to reflect the where the public’s concerns are justified, where there is current position. We have a Government who are committed avoidance, by which I mean contrived and artificial to ensuring that large corporates pay the tax that is due. behaviour contrary to Parliament’s intention, that is a very serious matter and it is right that we take action. 4.59 pm There is an issue of administration. The point has Chris White: This has been a brief debate, but it was been raised about HMRC’s effectiveness in dealing with still an important one. I thank all Members who have tax avoidance by large businesses. I should explain that taken part for the crucial points they made. More HMRC works, with regard to large businesses, by putting importantly, I hope that the debate was watched outside in place CRMs—customer relationship managers. Their the Chamber by the companies that have been referred role is essentially to man-mark the most complex and to and that they take the necessary responsibility to high-risk taxpayers. In recent years that approach has ensure that some of these things are put right. I applaud proved to be effective in getting money in. HMRC the Minister’s comments. The Government are moving secured £8 billion of additional compliance yield from in the right direction, but I think that this is still a work large businesses in 2012-13, and more than £23 billion in progress. in the past three years. It is an approach that has been Question put and agreed to. endorsed by the OECD. One of the difficulties that HMRC has is that it is bound by taxpayer confidentiality. Resolved, It cannot give a running commentary to this House on That this House has considered the matter of multinational the action that it takes, but the numbers demonstrate companies and UK corporation tax. that HMRC is effective in getting money in. PETITION Margaret Hodge: Will the Minister give way? Anti-social behaviour on Cato Street (London) Mr Gauke: I will, but I have about two minutes left to cover a lot of ground. 4.59 pm Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con): Margaret Hodge: Why has HMRC not taken one It is a pleasure to present this petition on behalf of case against any internet company? Mr Mark Gregory, managing director of PHA Media of Wardour street, and 156 other London residents. Mr Gauke: Neither the right hon. Lady nor I know The petition states: what action HMRC has taken with regard to individual companies. What we do know is that it has got billions The Petition of a resident of the UK, of pounds in additional yield as a consequence of the Declares that the Petitioner believes that actions of individuals action that it takes with large businesses as a whole. who are sleeping, sheltering, littering and defecating on Cato Street, London, are unacceptable and detrimental to the local With reference to HMRC’s performance across the businesses and residences. The Petitioner therefore requests that board, additional yield is being achieved year after year, the House of Commons urges the Cities of London and Westminster and this Government have provided resources to increase local authority to resolve this issue and remove those individuals the yield on evasion and avoidance. from Cato Street and surrounding areas. One other constraint on HMRC is that it can collect And your Petitioner, as in duty bound, will ever pray. only the tax that is due under the law, and there is an [P001190] 579 27 JUNE 2013 Reserve Service Personnel 580

Reserve Service Personnel they were still protecting our safety and looking after us. If there had been a terrorist attack, they would have Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House been in the front line and their lives would have been at do now adjourn.—(Mr Evennett.) risk. I found that attitude quite depressing. We have legislation that enables employers to make 5pm allowances should they employ those who wish to risk Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): I think their lives on our behalf, for our freedom and our safety, that everybody in the House, particularly MPs, and in order that they do not suffer as a result of doing so. indeed everybody in the country, is very aware of the I recently heard about the case of a soldier who had work undertaken and the sacrifices made by those who been on a tour of Afghanistan and on his return went serve in our reserve forces. In many cases, the job of the straight back to work. Again, I heard the same story: he reservists is no different from that of the regular forces. had lost his holiday pay and holiday entitlement. The Their family life is disrupted in the same way and they legislation says that when reserve forces personnel return suffer the same strains and stresses. They go out and from a deployment they must be taken back fulfil the same role. “on terms and conditions not less favourable to him than those There are two military bases in my constituency: which would have been applicable to him in that occupation had Chicksands, the Army intelligence base, and RAF Henlow. he not entered on such service.” Many of the staff who serve on those bases, as well as I know that the Minister is going to say that a White the soldiers and RAF personnel, send their children Paper is coming up shortly. That is indeed the reason I to school in Bedfordshire and, because they are there called this debate. I wanted to use it to highlight the for quite a while, I am in the fortunate position of position in which reservists who have been in the regular having many of them stay in the constituency and forces, and who have settled in Mid Bedfordshire and become reservists. A number of cases involving those are now my constituents, find themselves. I do not reservists have come to my attention over the past few believe that their situation is unique as it is probably months. occurring with employers not only in Mid Bedfordshire I am often intrigued by the way we honour our armed but nationwide. I would like the Minister to be aware of forces and our soldiers, who do a fantastic job. The this problem, so I highlight it at time when he will be Royal Anglian Regiment is based as Chicksands. I will preparing the White Paper. The wording of the legislation always remember a story I was told—I think the Minister needs to be tightened and secured to provide reservists was with me at the time—when the Royal Anglians with much greater protections than they have now. He came back from Iraq and presented to us on the work will probably say that it is already quite tight, and I they had undertaken there. Some of the soldiers who agree that one would think that there were no loopholes were there that day are now living in Bedfordshire and that employers could use, but I am afraid that they are serving as reservists. They were telling us about the doing that, and that is what we need to protect against. respect the public show them when they come back There needs to be an effective means of challenging from a tour of duty. They had just come back from decisions made by employers should a reservist feel that Washington DC, where they had been making a similar he is being unfairly treated when he comes back from a presentation. They had stopped at an American diner tour of duty, whatever or wherever it may have been. At to eat. When the soldier—the one who presented to us the moment, it is a situation that arises between the that day—went up to pay for the meal, the young girl at reservist and his employer. We need to widen that out the checkout said, “You don’t need to pay, Sir. Your and find a mechanism for an appeals process through meal has already been paid for.” When he asked who which a reservist can challenge his employer without had paid for it, she nodded to the window. Reversing fear of losing his job. out of a lorry bay was a lorry driver. She explained to At the moment, non-British companies operating in our soldiers that the driver had just wanted to say thank the UK are free from our law. The White Paper needs to you for the sacrifice they make on their behalf. I was explore how to find a way of ensuring that non-British incredibly touched by that story, particularly as I was companies comply with the legislation that we have to told it by soldiers in our own regiment in Bedfordshire. protect our reservists. It appears that non-British companies It is a huge honour the way UK citizens will wait for may be the worst offenders. We need to find a means by returning soldiers who have lost their lives in Afghanistan. which we can name and shame companies that do not They stand in the rain and the cold to honour those do their best for our forces or treat them in the way that returning soldiers. It is therefore hugely dismaying for we would like them to be treated. There is a huge gap me to hear from reservists in my surgery who sit and between the respect shown towards our serving personnel give examples of employers who perhaps do not pay by the lorry driver in the States and the way that some them the respect they deserve for the sacrifice they companies treat them in the UK. make. A few people have said to me, “How do you expect I know that the military go a huge way towards a small business to be able to cope with taking on a providing for reservists all the assistance and benefits reservist who may be going to disappear for a few that regular soldiers in the Army receive. However, I months at a time?” There is provision to enable employers have heard examples of things that have happened over to do that without being inconvenienced in any great the past year, the most recent of which made me call way. That provision enables the reservist to go and fight this debate. When reservists who served at the Olympics for his country. Surely the employer should be grateful last year got back to their full-time employment, they that that person is fighting for the freedom of businesses discovered that they had lost their holiday entitlement to operate in the UK. It is therefore a double-edged and holiday pay. Some might say, “Well, they were only sword. The employer should show the same respect that at the Olympics—it wasn’t a tour of Afghanistan”, but the lorry driver showed. 581 Reserve Service Personnel27 JUNE 2013 Reserve Service Personnel 582

[Nadine Dorries] In truth, however, the role of the reserves has changed markedly since I served among them. Since 2003, there The last Government left a huge, multi-billion-pound have been more than 25,000 reservist mobilisations for black hole in the finances of the Ministry of Defence. operations to fight alongside their regular counterparts, The Secretary of State and his Ministers, while fending and 30 have paid the ultimate price for their country. I off demands from the Treasury for ever more spending take this opportunity to acknowledge the tremendous cuts, have done their bit to recognise the contribution of contribution our reserves make to the defence and reserve forces and personnel. Indeed, they will be relying security of our nation, echoing the exact sentiments on them more, because one of the realities of the of my hon. Friend. Reserves have always played an cutbacks is that the reserve forces will increasingly be essential role in our armed forces, and their dedication, called to the front line and into more dangerous situations. professionalism and contribution have been vital to That is one of the main reasons why the legislation achieving success. needs to be tightened. The difference between serving in My hon. Friend will be familiar with the background the reserve forces and the regular forces is becoming to our new policy for reserves. The 2010 strategic defence narrower as we rely more on our reserves. and security review described the role of the reserve I know that the Minister has been a reservist. He has forces as part of our future, highly capable armed told me some fascinating stories about his time as a forces. As an integral part of this future force, we are reservist, none of which I can repeat here today, growing the reserves to provide additional capacity, as unfortunately. I wish I could, but they would be struck well providing certain specialists—for example, medical from Hansard in a flash. This is not blackmail, I hasten personnel or cyber experts—whom it would not be to add. I am not saying that I have something over the practical or cost-effective to maintain as part of our Minister. However, I hope that he will hear the plea from regular capability. Seeing the very close relationship my constituents and all reservists across the country; between my hon. Friend and her BlackBerry, she is that he will consider in the White Paper how the indeed a cyber expert. employment rights of British nationals who are employed in the UK by foreign companies can be protected and The changes we are making are substantial. They are secured; and that he will consider tightening the wording about delivering defence differently from in the past. in the legislation so that our reservists are not disadvantaged We are taking an approach that envisages military capability once they have completed a tour of duty. That is being delivered through a whole force comprising regulars, fundamental. reservists, contractors and civil servants. This is already happening in Afghanistan today. For example, the Army The White Paper is coming, so the Minister has a is reorganising into an integrated force of 112,000 trained fantastic opportunity to do his best for his colleagues regulars and reservists that is able to meet the security who do the job that he once did. I know that he will take challenges of the future. This construct, mirrored by the up this challenge enthusiastically and do his best. Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, allows us better to 5.12 pm harness the talent the country has to offer. This approach will deliver the Ministry of Defence’s contribution to The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark national security in a cost-effective way that makes the Francois): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member best use of the resources available. for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries) on securing this debate on the terms of employment for reserve service We need to develop the reserve component of the personnel. It is timely in two respects. First, it relates to force. The 2011 independent commission on the reserve the White Paper that we will publish shortly. Secondly, forces found at that time that the reserves were in we are in the run-up to Armed Forces day 2013 this decline, particularly in the Army, and needed to be Saturday, when the country will rightly pay tribute to brought up to date to meet the challenges of the new our personnel, regular and reserve, the families who security environment. The key recommendations of the support them and our veterans. independent commission’s report were to stabilise the I am delighted to see my hon. Friend in her place. To reserve numbers and increase the trained reserve strength; draw a military analogy, she got slightly waylaid on a to provide the reserve forces with better and defined jungle training exercise, but I am pleased to say that she roles; to offer the right mix of interesting and challenging has successfully rejoined her unit. I would like to make activities, with appropriate recognition and reward to some general points about our reserve forces before attract and retain individuals in the reserve forces; to addressing at least some of the issues that she raised in provide greater ease of mobilisation, better employee relation to her constituent. protection and greater recognition of employers; and to Before I go any further, I should declare an interest increase investment in the reserve forces. or, given the circumstances, confirm one. I served in the In responding to the report last July, my right hon. Territorial Army as an infantry officer in the 1980s. I Friend the Secretary of State for Defence announced a was a Royal Anglian—a regiment that proudly recruits £1.8 billion investment programme in the reserves over from Bedfordshire as well as from my county of Essex. the next 10 years. That is significant. There have been It is therefore quite possible that some of her constituents reviews of the reserves in the recent past that have led to serve in its ranks. I served in the cold war, when we comparatively little change. This review is different: it planned, in essence, for world war three. Fortunately, will deliver. It is supported by additional funding, by that nightmare never came to pass, so I was never the requirement to deliver that is created by dependence mobilised for operations, I was never shot at with live of the Future Force on the reserves, and by the will, ammunition, other than in training, and I bear no throughout Defence, to ensure that it succeeds. The medals. However, I still proudly carry the Queen’s commitment to deliver was reinforced by the publication commission, which hangs on my wall at home. I have in November last year of the Green Paper, “Future worn the uniform and I understand the ethos. Reserves 2020: Delivering the Nation’s Security Together”. 583 Reserve Service Personnel27 JUNE 2013 Reserve Service Personnel 584

This set out our proposals to enable Defence to build into service as part of the deployment for Operation and sustain over time the changes recommended in the Olympics. I, too, pay tribute to all those service personnel, independent commission’s report, and to ensure that we both regular and reserve, who, in many cases at very are able to deliver a reserve force that will meet the short notice, were mobilised to ensure the security of needs of the future whole force concept. those wonderfully successful games. At the end of that Following the publication of the Green Paper, we service, a reservist would be entitled to a period of paid launched a consultation exercise, which has proved leave. For each month that they are mobilised they get invaluable. We received more than 2,500 responses from about two or just over two days’ paid leave. In this reservists, employers, employer organisations, regulars and particular case, her constituent might have been entitled members of the public. In addition, some 50 consultation to about eight days’ paid leave from the Ministry of events were held with employers, reservists and their Defence in view of having been mobilised for several families. These responses were generally supportive of months—it was both before and after the games. So the our proposals for the future of the reserves, and recognised normal procedure would be for the leave to be taken at that the future proposition requires the development of the end of the operation—in effect, it would be post- new relationships between Defence and reservists—and operation tour leave, to be paid for by the MOD. their families and employers—that will be crucial to In this case, without being familiar with all the detail, achieving our goals. As someone who has commanded it sounds like my hon. Friend’s constituent took that TA soldiers, albeit in the last century, may I just say that post-operation tour leave of about eight days, and the the relationship with families is also very important? employer then decided in effect to “net that off” and There is an old saying in the Army, “Recruit the soldier, take it off her constituent’s leave from the company. It retain the family.” We need to ensure that families are might be that the employer went slightly beyond that—we supportive of our reservists, too. In order to retain the would need to know more details—but the reservist support of families, we need to get greater support from would still have had broadly the same amount of leave. employers and, indeed, from society as a whole. They One could take the view, however, that perhaps the also serve who sit at home and wait. employer should have been more generous, given the service that had been rendered, and should not have Nadine Dorries: The Minister makes a fantastic point. “netted off” the additional holiday. As I understand it, It is the families who suffer when employers take away nothing in current legislation prevents the employer the holiday entitlement from reservists when they return. from doing that, but one could take the view that the The children suffer as they do not get to spend time employer should have been slightly more generous. with their father or mother when they return from this Notwithstanding that issue, we need to re-set the very stressful situation. The stress factor is involved relationships between reservists, and employers and here, because when someone is returning from a tour of society as a whole, and we aim to do that via the White duty, they need that time off and that down time with Paper. Greater reliance on reserves is more cost-effective their families to re-stabilise themselves—to step away for the nation, but requires a greater willingness by from where they have been and back into the real world. society to support and encourage reserve service. Our So removing their holiday entitlement has another effect, reservists make a contribution to society over and above as it prevents that process from taking place. most others. We recognise and value this and we must offer them attractive challenges, fair rewards and incentives, Mr Francois: My hon. Friend makes a very pertinent and we must undertake to provide them and their point. Holiday is important to the families as well as to families with appropriate support, recognising the the servicemen themselves. Of course, it is important contribution they make. The White Paper, which we to the children, where that is applicable. The ability to shall publish soon, will set out our plans in much have leave, particularly when returning from operations, greater detail and will set the agenda for a very significant is very important. We understand that in the Ministry change in the future of our reserve forces. This is of Defence, and I hope, at least in general terms, to tremendously exciting and I look forward to our reserves address that point as it relates to her constituent in a playing an even greater role in the defence and security moment or two. of our nation. Given all the things I have been talking about, we When I served, there were 75,000 trained men and have done considerable work with employers, and much women in the Territorial Army. Our target now is to get of the consultation focused on them. We recognise that to 30,000 by 2018. I have to believe that if we got to reserve service will affect different employers in different 75,000 then, with a smaller population, we can get to ways, according to their size and sector. We seek to 30,000 within four and a bit years with a larger population. develop relationships that are tailored to reflect that— In order to succeed, however, we must have the support relationships that are open, practicable and based on of employers and the right relationship between them mutual benefit. I have had productive discussions with and their reservist employees. We need mutual respect, the British Chambers of Commerce, the Business Services and that is what we seek to engender via the White Association, the CBI, the Federation of Small Businesses Paper. I congratulate my hon. Friend on raising the and the Institute of Directors to try to ensure that we issue at this time—as I said, the debate was timely—and achieve that. I hope that the fruits of some of those I believe that she has done her constituent a good discussions will be reflected shortly in the White Paper. service. Given all that, I was concerned to hear about the case Question put and agreed to. of my hon. Friend’s constituent, and I shall explain the MOD’s policy as I believe it would apply in a case such 5.26 pm as this. I understand that her constituent was mobilised House adjourned.

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with the current tax rate in the Republic of Ireland. Westminster Hall Corporation tax in the UK is 23%, but only 12.5% in the Republic. Although the Committee was certainly Thursday 27 June 2013 not unanimous on that proposal, we felt that it would help the economy in Northern Ireland move towards [MR DAVID AMESS in the Chair] where we want it to be. We are debating aviation policy, not corporation tax, but I will talk about tax a little Air Transport (Northern Ireland) later. [Relevant documents: An air transport strategy for Northern I must stress the importance of air travel to Northern Ireland, First Report of the Northern Ireland Affairs Ireland. It is an island off an island—a beautiful place, Committee, Session 2012-13, HC 76, and the Government but nevertheless slightly remote. The only way that response, Session 2012-13, HC 960.] people there can travel reasonably quickly and efficiently Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting either to the mainland or to the continent is by air. The be now adjourned.—(Greg Hands.) sea crossing is lovely, but it is quite slow. [Interruption.] I do not know whether the Minister is thinking of 1.30 pm extending High Speed 2 to Northern Ireland, but I am Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): It is a sure that it would be welcome if he did. However, as at pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, the moment there are no plans to do so, we must stress Mr Amess. I thank the Liaison Committee for nominating how important air travel is to people in Northern Ireland this important debate, and the Minister of State, for social, family and business reasons. Department for Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), for attending. I Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): Some Committee members know that he had a busy night last night, not necessarily suggested that it might be helpful for Ministers, particularly helped by some who are in the Chamber today. I welcome Ministers for Transport, to make the journey to Belfast him. from London or Southampton via the only real way other than flying, and to tell us all how long it takes, This debate comes on the back of the first report of how much it costs and how it could possibly help 2012-13 by the Select Committee on Northern Ireland improve business connectivity for that to be the only Affairs, which we published last November. I am grateful way by which a person can travel. It might be helpful for to all Committee members for the work that they carried the Minister to make that trip so that he can experience out on this detailed inquiry, and to our officials, who it for himself. I had to make it once. It takes a very long are a bit thin on the ground today, although I am time. sure—at least, I hope—that quality will make up for the lack of quantity. Mr Robertson: I thank the hon. Lady for her helpful I am grateful to the many witnesses whom we interviewed intervention. I am sure that the Minister travels to during the course of our inquiry into the air transport Northern Ireland regularly, but it sounds like an invitation strategy for Northern Ireland. We talked to representatives for him to do so in a different way. of the airports, the CBI, the airline companies, travel companies, the Consumer Council for Northern Ireland, When the Minister gets there, he will see that the rail unions, the UK Border Agency, Ministers, the Federation links in Northern Ireland are not what we might want of Small Businesses and others. either, particularly between City of Derry airport and Since the Committee was re-formed after the last Belfast. I will come to that issue in a minute. It is a long general election, we have concentrated on trying our and sometimes difficult journey.Northern Ireland Members best to move towards a rebalancing of the Northern sometimes have to leave Parliament early in the day—not Ireland economy. We know that Northern Ireland has in the morning, of course, but not too late in the become somewhat over-dependent on the public sector, afternoon—if they want to get back that evening, which and we are well aware of the reasons why. There is a may explain why they are sometimes unable to take part large deficit in the amount of Government spending in in debates such as this. Northern Ireland relative to the amount of tax raised The background is that we have three airports in there. The same is true in Scotland and Wales, of Northern Ireland: Belfast International, sometimes known course, but it is more pronounced in Northern Ireland. as Aldergrove; Belfast City, nowadays named George Wages are also lower in Northern Ireland, and there is Best Belfast City airport after the great footballer; and, great concern about people who perhaps do not feel of course, City of Derry airport. Belfast International that they have had the full benefits of the peace process. airport has about 4 million passengers a year, Belfast We as a Committee have considered security issues from City airport 2.4 million and City of Derry 400,000. When time to time, of course, and we will do so again, but we we compare that with Dublin, which has 90 million are doing our best to encourage and work with the passengers a year, we see a big difference between the Government and make proposals about how we might two, but Belfast International airport is busy and fulfils rebalance the economy in Northern Ireland. It is obviously a completely different role from Belfast City airport. worth doing for its own sake, so that people in the Both are important. City of Derry airport could probably Province can enjoy greater prosperity, but we also see it be used more, especially this year, when Londonderry is as a way to cement the relative peace achieved over the the city of culture. past 15 years or so. In terms of connectivity, it is extremely important Our first inquiry after the last general election was on that we retain capacity in the south-east of England, the level of corporation tax. We recommended that the because many people fly from Belfast to London and issue be devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly so then on to other cities in the world. There is some that it could set a rate that would be more competitive concern about the speed with which we are moving in 147WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 148WH

[Mr Laurence Robertson] some difficulty with that. The slots are probably best secured by creating extra capacity in the south-east, and that direction. The Committee expressed frustration we are in a vicious circle in that respect. about how long it is taking for the Government to I now return to tax: air passenger duty. A while ago it decide whether we are to have, for example, a further became obvious to the Committee that Continental runway at Heathrow, Boris island or something else. It Airlines, now operating under United Airlines—the is of some concern to the Committee that the Government only company flying from Belfast directly to Newark in seem to have ruled out a third runway at Heathrow the United States—was seriously considering ending its before commissioning the Davies report. only flight, because of the high level of long-haul air passenger duty. We have since had discussions with that The Minister of State, Department for Transport airline in the United States. It was a close-run thing. It (Mr Simon Burns): If it is helpful to my hon. Friend, the was seriously considering ending that flight, because it Government’s policy, in the manifestos of both the did not feel that it could pass on the air passenger duty Conservative party and the Liberal Democrats, is that to the customers, owing to the proximity of Dublin. there will be no third runway at Heathrow during the Four people travelling from Belfast to Newark would lifetime of this Parliament. For the way forward beyond pay £260 in tax, whereas from Dublin I think the charge 2015, we have set up the Davies review, an independent is ¤3 each, and there was talk of abolishing that. Because commission, to consider what we should do to move of the possibility of a short journey elsewhere, Belfast forward on capacity in the south-east of England. was in danger of losing out. We did a quick report and put an awful lot of Mr Robertson: That is extremely helpful, given that pressure on the Government to do something about we have less than two years to go in this Parliament this. To be fair to the Treasury, the Department for before the third runway is a possibility. I cannot speak Transport and the Northern Ireland Office—I do not for the Committee on that—we did not express a view know exactly who took the decision; I suspect it was the whether there should be a third runway at Heathrow—but Treasury— we did say that we are concerned about how long it is taking. The Government’s response to our report said, Mr Burns: Treasury. reasonably, that they do not want to rush matters; they want to consider the issue in depth and detail, and to Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab): Stereo. get it right. I fully understand that, but we feel that we are losing out to Dublin, Paris and Schiphol due to Mr Robertson: The Treasury is all-powerful. The level the delay. of air passenger duty was reduced to that for short-haul It is important to Northern Ireland that we secure the flights, and the Government have since devolved decisions routes from Belfast to London airports. A while ago, on air passenger duty to the Assembly, so it can decide British Airways—or the International Airlines Group, how it wants to play it. That reduction saved that route. to be more correct—took over BMI, and there was I pay tribute in particular to the Select Committee some concern about whether the route would be members from Northern Ireland, who put pressure on discontinued. We interviewed Willie Walsh of International me as Chairman, allowing me to put pressure on the Airlines Group, who was helpful to the Committee and Government. We saved that route, but it was a close-run stressed the importance of that route to British Airways. thing that demonstrates how important—how big an We are concerned that the long-haul routes appear to be issue—air passenger duty is. more profitable for some airline companies. He said Okay, we saved that route and that is important, that BA was not in a position, necessarily, to buy an given the relationship with America, but 98.5%—the awful lot more planes that could fly long-haul, so the vast majority—of Northern Ireland passengers take route from Belfast was valuable to it. That is a slightly short-haul flights. Many witnesses cited air passenger negative way of getting to the position that we wanted duty as a major problem and a major cost, particularly to get to, and we must stress the particular importance for people who travel an awful lot. to the people in Northern Ireland, and to its economy, I have made mild criticism of the Government so far. of the routes from Belfast to London. They inherited a massive deficit from the previous Recently, we had a bit of a scare when Flybe announced Government and, as we saw yesterday, it is difficult to that it was ending flights from Belfast City airport to cut taxes at this moment. We fully understand that. Gatwick, although it ended a number of flights to However, I stress to the Minister—although we are glad Gatwick, not just from Belfast. The good news is that that the Transport Minister is present, and we know EasyJet has taken over and assures us that that route is that three Ministers cannot be here, we could have done important for it. All these things are worrying and are a with a Treasury and a Northern Ireland Minister here, problem for people in Northern Ireland, because air too—that air passenger duty is important. I hope that transportation is so important to them. he takes that message back to the Treasury, to see what Linked to the issues I have mentioned are the slots, can be done to lower this burden on the people of particularly at Heathrow, which is under such enormous Northern Ireland. pressure. We want to move the situation on as quickly The Committee also considered visas and tourism, as we can. We discussed the possibility of ring-fencing which is important to Northern Ireland and, indeed, to certain slots, particularly at Heathrow, but as the the Republic of Ireland. Of course, the Republic of Government correctly responded, it is difficult to do Ireland, the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands that under EU law and tends to distort competition and and the Isle of Man are not in Schengen, but in what the free market. As an avowed free-marketeer, I have is known as the common travel area. Although that is 149WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 150WH helpful, people coming from other countries to Ireland—it regulations, which make doing something about that is a bit more complicated than this—may need a further difficult. Well, given how the EU works at the moment, visa to get into the United Kingdom, and vice versa. that certainly will not be easy to do, but if we had a Again, the Government agreed with our recommendation Government who committed to arguing for it, it might and are already acting to have discussions with the happen. Government of the Republic of Ireland, to see if this I feel strongly that travelling by plane from Northern situation can be made simpler. Obviously, there has to Ireland to London, Manchester, Scotland or anywhere be a uniform security policy surrounding the common else on the mainland of Great Britain is not a luxury. travel area, if we go down that route, but we encourage People do not wake up and think, “Great, I am going to the Government in that regard. Of course, the island of be flying from Belfast to London tomorrow. Isn’t that Ireland is promoted as one destination in respect of wonderful? I don’t mind paying APD, because it is such tourism. There is nothing wrong with that, even for a nice way to travel.” The reality is that flying is the only Unionists like me. It is sensible. However, we feel that way people can realistically travel, particularly to southern there can be more simplicity with regard to travelling to England. Flying is now very expensive for students who both the UK and Ireland. want to come back home between studying, and the I thank the Committee for all its hard work in compiling cost to business people is very big. A growing phenomenon this report. I hope that I have stressed the importance of in the current economic situation is that more and more rebalancing the economy in Northern Ireland and of people—mainly young men but women, too—are flying the role that air transport plays in that. over on a Monday morning, working in the building industry near Stansted and flying back on the Thursday night or Friday, and APD is a big addition to the cost. 1.46 pm We should be arguing that Northern Ireland is a Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): It is a pleasure to see special case because it is different. We are part of the you in the Chair, Mr Amess, and I am pleased to be able United Kingdom, but we have water around us, and we to say a few words. My colleague from the Northern therefore need to be treated differently. There is an idea Ireland Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Belfast that we cannot do something about APD for Northern East (Naomi Long), wants to make a contribution, too. Ireland. The Government’s response states: I thank our Chairman, the hon. Member for Tewkesbury “APD makes an essential contribution towards helping the (Mr Robertson), for putting the case so well and mentioning Government meet its deficit reduction plans.” why our Committee felt that this is an important issue: the links between Northern Ireland and the rest of the I do not want to go further than to say that, in the long United Kingdom, which are crucial, and particularly run, we would end up with more money if APD were air passenger duty. reduced, but, obviously, if we were to treat Northern Ireland differently, APD would have to be devolved. In We need to thank the Government for listening to the that case, the Northern Ireland Executive would have to Northern Ireland Affairs Committee and to the lobbying— make up the money to fund the reduction, but the all legitimate lobbying, I will add—that went on for a people of Northern Ireland could debate whether they long time and getting the air passenger duty changed on feel that that is a priority. I think that there would be the international flight from Belfast to Newark. That support for it. was crucial, because there was no doubt that people were travelling by car down to Dublin, even though it The Government’s response further states that made the journey slightly longer, as it worked out “in order to protect the public finances and also to comply with cheaper due to the reduction there. The Irish Government EU State Aid rules. It would not be possible under EU law to have make an issue of making it much cheaper to fly different rates of APD on intra-UK flights from GB to NI than internationally, particularly to America. That is important. on flights from UK to other EU destinations.” I hope that we have made that link with United Airlines I am sorry, but I am a British citizen. I am part of the permanent and that we see it increase. We now need a United Kingdom, and I want my Government and my direct flight from Belfast to Canada, where there is a country to be able to decide where planes are going to huge diaspora of people from Northern Ireland. That fly, how much that will cost and what the tax should be, would be welcome. and I do not want to be restricted. I am sure my hon. In addition to what was always an important issue, Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim we raised the other pressing, day-to-day issue in our Fitzpatrick) on the Front Bench does not necessarily recommendation 7 on tax policy. Air passenger duty agree, but I do not want the EU to decide policies that throughout the United Kingdom is far too high. It is should be for us to decide. That is why I support the the highest in Europe. Some people argue that it is need for a referendum, the need for a debate in the good, from a green point of view, and others argue that country and the need for us to decide our future relationship it is needed because the Government need the money. A with the EU. I will not digress further, Mr Amess, cost-benefit analysis has not been properly done to although I am sure that you might want me to do so. show how much the United Kingdom would benefit It is just not good enough for us to say that we cannot economically if we reduced and, in some parts of the allow Northern Ireland to be treated differently and UK, abolished air passenger duty altogether. specially because of the peculiar nature of its situation, Northern Ireland is a special case, just as the highlands not only because it has a land border with another and islands have become a special case, but whenever country, but because of the water that lies between us. It we ask why the highlands and islands get a reduction on is not good enough just to say, “We cannot do this their flights but Northern Ireland cannot, we come up because the EU will not let us.” I believe we should against something about which I have made my views reconsider, and I support the “A Fair Tax on Flying” known clearly over time: the European Union and campaign, which in some very good reports has shown 151WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 152WH

[Kate Hoey] business travel, flying is the only viable option for people from Northern Ireland to make contact with the how we are losing out across the United Kingdom south-east. because of the APD tax. I hope that the Government I recognise and welcome the Government’s analysis are listening. of the contribution and benefits of aviation to the UK I am surprised that the Secretary of State for Transport, economy. That is especially true in Northern Ireland, in answer to a question not too long ago, said that he particularly in my constituency of Belfast East, where does not have a view on APD. He was asked, aerospace companies such as Bombardier and Thales “what assessment has the Department made of the impact of air directly employ many highly skilled workers. Their passenger duty on aviation?” employment contributes to the rebalancing of the economy, And he answered: which the hon. Member for Tewkesbury has said is a priority for the Committee and for the Northern Ireland “I am not sure we have taken a view on it.” Executive. I believe all of us who represent Northern I hope that the Minister will clarify the Secretary of Ireland want to see that happen. Aerospace is a particularly State’s answer, because that could be good news. The important marketplace for us to sustain growth. Secretary of State is my constituent when he is in London, so I know that he is quite a good egg. I hope The tourism industry, both inbound and outbound, that his answer means that we have not finally made up relies heavily on aviation, as would be expected for an our mind, and I hope that my party will consider the island economy. Due to the relatively small number of matter very clearly, so that we can have a strong view direct flights to other international destinations, our before the next election. connectivity to other parts of the UK is crucial if we are to ensure our connectivity with international destinations. There are now no direct flights to Heathrow from Such connectivity contributes heavily to UK economic Belfast International, which is an important airport. activity, and passengers who pay APD on both parts of They have stopped because of the merger of British their journey are particularly affected. Airways and BMI, and Aer Lingus then going to Belfast City airport. There is a bit of one airport playing off the APD has a detrimental effect on the continued other by lowering the amount of money that it charges development of a thriving tourism sector in Northern for a short time, and after a year or two, the other Ireland by placing a cost burden on business, not least airport seems to offer something more and the airlines because of our unique position of having a land border go back. We need to ensure that both airports, while with another EU state, placing us in direct competition they are there, serve the needs of everyone in Northern with a much lower-tax economy. We have to be cognisant Ireland. of that when we make decisions, and I will elaborate on that later. I want to speak up for easyJet, which has brought an amazing amount of opportunity for people in Northern I will start by addressing connectivity to and through Ireland. I fly easyJet all the time, more or less. I think the UK hub airports, and I will then reflect on what the easyJet is a great airline. For short flights from Belfast, Committee says about connectivity to the airports within easyJet is absolutely brilliant and usually on time. I am Northern Ireland. Airports are recognised as devolved not being paid by easyJet; I really do think that. I get but there may be things that the UK Government can cross when people dismiss easyJet as one of those cheap do to encourage more work on connectivity within airlines, because it has brought huge opportunities for Northern Ireland. people to travel not just from Belfast to the rest of the The UK is one of the best-connected countries in the United Kingdom but all over Europe. The more that world, and the Government are right to state that the that happens, the more that we will see people going broader the range of destinations served and the higher from Belfast to Amsterdam and then to America. That the frequency of flights to and from those destinations, will not happen unless we grasp the nettle of APD. the better connected we will be. That is particularly This debate has been a good opportunity, and I look crucial in the context of Northern Ireland. It is vital for forward to the Minister’s response. us to get access to the south-east of England and, through the main hub airports, to the rest of the world. 1.56 pm On connectivity to the south-east, the overall gross value added of Northern Ireland is only about 80% of Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): I am pleased to the UK average. Successive Governments have nominally follow the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey). I committed to a policy of regional convergence, but thank the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) London and the south-east are still regarded—I argue, for his chairmanship of the Committee generally, and protected—as the main drivers of the UK economy. particularly for his interest in aviation and aviation Only three UK regions are net contributors to the policy.Such issues have consumed a lot of the Committee’s Treasury, and Northern Ireland is the most dependent time, whether it is the aerospace industry, aviation strategy of the remaining nine. or APD, which reflects the importance of aviation to Clearly, an active regional policy by Government is Northern Ireland’s economy. necessary to promote a more even distribution of economic As an island off an island, our peripherality can be activity throughout the UK. In the interim, it is imperative countered only by having good, quick connections. The to ensure that the regions have good access to London hon. Member for Vauxhall made the point well that and the south-east to assist with economic competitiveness. those of us who have on occasion laboured by boat, Northern Ireland’s unique position means that aviation train and car to make the same journey would not swap is essential to that connectivity. There are no other an hour-long flight for the alternative. We certainly appropriate means of transport to access mainland UK could not do so if we were seriously going to do or other onward destinations quickly and easily for business in the House or anywhere else. As a form of business purposes. On onward connectivity, as we rebalance 153WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 154WH the Northern Ireland economy, it is vital that we encourage allow us, for example, to vote in the House on a Wednesday and support indigenous businesses to expand their exports, night and still get back to Northern Ireland on a attract new foreign direct investment and so on. Ease of Wednesday night. There is an issue about the routes travel and the frequency and cost of flights are always and, although we understand about public service factors in our ability to maximise potential. Direct obligations, it may need to be looked at in future. Any access to the main hub airports in the south-east is vital. threat might not be imminent, but if the matter of I concur with the Chair when he said that the Committee Heathrow and capacity in the south-east is not resolved was concerned about delays to do with the Heathrow as a matter of urgency, the pressure on slots for flights issue, and I will elaborate on that. Demand for landing to Northern Ireland will continue to increase. slots for international flights is placing pressure on I hope that something will be done as a matter of national connections, which worries us, as one of the urgency. Given that the need for resolution is of acute most affected regions. If Glasgow loses its landing slot, importance to Northern Ireland residents, I regret the people at least have the option to step on a train, but if apparent lack of urgency in the approach taken. I have Belfast loses its landing slot, we are talking about a read the Government response to our first recommendation, three-day hike, so the issue of our connectivity is much and I understand the need for an evidence base and the more serious. Future proposals need to be evaluated not reference to the Airports Commission, but the response in isolation, but in terms of the economic impact in goes on to mention that any decision will be “highly Northern Ireland and other remote regions of the UK, contentious” and that the decisions have been under because equitable access to London is crucial. The lack discussion since the early 1990s. I suspect that the of a decision on an additional runway at Heathrow or contentious nature of the decisions has had more impact of a new hub airport—I am fairly indifferent to which on the time frame than the lack of an evidence base. option is pursued—has an impact on landing slots, Most people in Northern Ireland feel that that has been which is important for Northern Ireland passengers in more the guiding factor, rather than the difficulty of the two ways. decisions to do with the airport. First, the focus of the airports on through passengers Connectivity to airports within Northern Ireland is is intensifying, because of constrained capacity, and also important. Those are largely devolved issues, which both Heathrow and Gatwick now levy charges on was reflected in the Government response to the report, passengers who arrive in those airports as their final but that context is important. We are pleased to see destination from other UK airports, which adds to the commitment to creating lower-carbon methods of reaching cost of travel. Such charges might be relatively small at airports in Great Britain, which we hope will be encouraged the point of introduction, but they will have an effect, in the devolved Administrations. The Northern Ireland because, as the pressure increases, the charges will increase. Administration do not have a climate change action Furthermore, we often find that charges will increase as plan, unlike the rest of the UK: Scotland has its own people’s tolerance of them increases. The charge is plans, and England and Wales are covered by what applied to transit passengers, but Northern Ireland has happens in Westminster. Northern Ireland sits outside few through carriers, so most people arrive there as a those arrangements, and some impetus to drive something destination, then have to change flights completely—they through the Assembly would be good. are not technically transit passengers, so they end up Northern Ireland will obviously not benefit directly having to pay the charge. from high-speed rail. In case the Minister does not Secondly, as others have mentioned, the flight connections already know, I voted in favour of high-speed rail, between Belfast and London, and their frequency, are which I hope will make him slightly more sympathetic placed at risk as the pressure for landing slots—at to my other points. Investment in public transport is Heathrow in particular—grows; they are at risk of good and wise investment, and I say that as someone being replaced by more lucrative long-haul routes. The who comes from an engineering background. High-speed Chair of the Select Committee has already reflected on rail will not directly benefit us, but in Northern Ireland, the evidence given by Willie Walsh of IAG, but his twin by contrast, all our airports are within one mile of an reasons for the continued need for regional flights were existing rail line, and yet none has a direct connection to to feed the passenger capacity of onward internationals that railway. Someone arriving at Belfast City airport and because of a lack of a fleet of international jets terminal can see the railway, but cannot reach it directly; ready to take on the extra slots. That was not an option people have to leave the airport site and walk across a therefore, certainly in the short term. The reality is that dual-carriageway bridge and through some streets to the frequency with which the airline would want to fly get there. Relatively modest investment by the Northern between Belfast and London would be based more on Ireland Executive, therefore, could enable connectivity its onward connections than on the convenience of between the rail network in Northern Ireland, limited those who travel for business and other purposes. though it is, and air travel. We want to see the Government We heard good evidence about the possible constraints and the Department for Regional Development in Northern from the CBI, the Federation of Small Businesses, the Ireland work on developing such access to identify Northern Ireland Assembly and Business Trust, and so funding and other opportunities. on. We heard that frequency is almost as important as The lack of ease of access to Belfast International capacity for flights between London and Belfast, so airport in particular remains a problem, and one that that people can have more flexible travel arrangements. has received attention as a result of the Northern Ireland As already mentioned, Members from Northern Ireland Affairs Committee’s aviation inquiry. The road network will often struggle still to be in the House for the close serving the airport fails to meet the needs of Northern of business at the end of the day, because the last flights Ireland in pursuing inbound tourism and international leave so early. Not to join the bandwagon, but easyJet is investment as key drivers. We need to have an adequate one of the latest flights to leave and one of the few to and well-maintained road infrastructure to have onward 155WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 156WH

[Naomi Long] Hon. Members will be aware that since I have been in Parliament I have raised the issue frequently—the Treasury connectivity within Northern Ireland and with the rest would say relentlessly. I apologise that much of what I of the island, which is our main economic partner in am saying today has been heard before, but until it is terms of exports and other things. Improved infrastructure acknowledged and dealt with it bears repeating. I want could attract more customers and international carriers to focus on what happens in Northern Ireland because to the International airport, improving our connectivity of its uniqueness. It is an effective demonstration in with the rest of the world. Road access to Belfast microcosm of APD’s impact more widely throughout International is extremely poor in places, as the hon. the UK. Member for Vauxhall, who uses it regularly, is aware. When I have raised the issue with Treasury Ministers, Travelling from Belfast and after leaving the M2 motorway, I was scolded for not acknowledging the Government’s one must proceed along seven miles of two-lane single work on direct long-haul flights. I will not make that carriageway, passing through a small town to reach the mistake again. I acknowledge that that was real progress, airport. The road is relatively straight and safe, but high and I am glad the Government moved to devolve that traffic volumes during peak periods result in delays and and in the first instance to reduce it so that we retained an increased chance of accidents. No proposals or the United Continental flight as our only long-haul meaningful discussions have been forthcoming about direct route. Of the 600,000 passengers it carried in the upgrading the road. In our discussions with the devolved last six years or so before the decision, 40% were inbound Administration, we have stressed that it should be examined. tourists and business visitors, so it was crucial to retain First impressions are hugely important, and our public that connection to north America. transport connectivity creates a generally poor impression, The route’s success is a tangible demonstration to although we might have benefited slightly over G8—no others. The hon. Member for Vauxhall mentioned direct one could actually get to Enniskillen, certainly by public flights to Canada. We had those seasonally, but have transport, even had anyone wanted to go there to since lost them. It would be good if they were restored, protest. It is something that needs to be addressed. given the huge diaspora to Canada. It provides a good I next want to touch on air passenger duty, because evidence base for other airlines to consider direct flights we cannot discuss aviation strategy without looking at from Belfast. APD placed the direct flight in jeopardy APD, which has a disproportionate effect on Northern simply because the rates are so much lower in Dublin, Ireland passengers. The Committee spent considerable which is less than two hours away and, in contrast, has time discussing the issue, and some changes have happened, good road links. That is a challenge that we must face in in respect of the International airport in particular, on developing our infrastructure. the back of one of our previous reports. People frequently I give credit to the Government for responding to the gave us evidence about the impact of APD. If we are to work of Northern Ireland MPs, the Northern Ireland rebalance Northern Ireland’s economy, it will primarily Assembly and its Ministers, businesses and the Northern be not by cutting the public sector, but by growing the Ireland Affairs Committee’s report on APD by reducing private sector. In my view and that of a growing number the levy on direct long-haul flights and for devolving of people, the APD regime is a significant obstacle to the matter to the Assembly. That change was important that. It is a commercial challenge to Northern Ireland and very welcome, but affects around 2% of Northern businesses and conflicts directly with the positive measures Ireland passengers. It does not help with the unfair that are being taken to boost tourism and related burden on Northern Ireland of APD more generally; employment to encourage foreign direct investment and for example, on regional flights, or because of the so on. It adds to the cost of indigenous businesses, double duty that is paid because our access to main UK particularly those seeking to grow their export markets. hubs often requires separate flights due to the limited The Committee received evidence from a large fish number of through carriers. We pay short-haul to get to processor in Northern Ireland who exports to the far London and we pay long-haul to go from London. If east, and finds APD a huge burden on his business. we had a through carrier, we would simply pay long-haul, Being able to take his product to international markets even if we stopped in London, but because we do not and build relationships with those markets and clients is have seamless ticketing, we end up paying more and crucial for him in growing his export base. But in his that should be looked at from the perspective of fairness. evidence, Mr Rooney said that APD effectively consumes The case for reviewing APD is strong throughout the part of the budget he sets aside for travel, so the number UK. For island nations, connectivity and aviation are of his mission journeys is limited by APD. If it did not crucial. The situation is more acute in Northern Ireland exist, or were lower, he could travel more frequently to because we have a land border with another EU member sell his products. He is very successful at getting them state and the price-sensitive advantage in the Republic into the market when he has made those connections. of Ireland has directly affected Northern Ireland. It was At best, APD adds to the cost base and, at worst, it initially a bigger issue with international long-haul flights could jeopardise connectivity between Northern Ireland because the extra time needed to get to the airport made and other UK and international markets, impeding our it worth while, but when flying on even a moderate efforts. The levy was originally relatively affordable, but flight of, for example, four hours it is almost as quick it has increased significantly, particularly on long-haul for many people to go to Dublin as to International flights. Since 2007, the increases have been very steep—up airport or elsewhere to pick up their flight. The savings to 260% for short-haul flights—and between 2008 and may make it sensible financially to make that slightly 2011 the number of passengers carried by Virgin Atlantic, longer journey, and that will be an increasing challenge. for example, decreased by between 7% and 8%, but the APD also affects tourism because it reduces the cost amount of APD paid by its passengers increased by for people flying into Dublin, and when they do so as more than 45%. inbound tourists it is very difficult to get them to cross 157WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 158WH the border to spend time and stay overnight in Northern that for most of us APD has been by far the biggest Ireland. We are trying to grow our tourism, and the issue in aviation and connectivity, and pass that on to tourism offer has improved dramatically in recent years, the Treasury. but it is still difficult to get people who have flown into I want to raise one more issue: the impact on the another jurisdiction to come north and spend time in environment and people of having an airport nearby, Northern Ireland, which is what I really want them to particularly the impact of noise. I welcome the recognition do. Getting people to Belfast in the first place is hugely of the need for a fair balance between the negative important. impacts of noise and the economic benefits of flights, When APD was first introduced, it was a means of but I am concerned that the main mechanisms for taxing aviation to try to reflect the environmental impact. addressing those issues seem to be about engagement I have no objection to aviation paying its fair share in between airports and local communities. That is extremely that regard. It is important that it does and that tax valuable in building relationships and aiding understanding, takes account of issues such as climate change and but it does not necessarily improve the situation. seeks to effect behavioural change. However, there is no We would like to see independent monitoring of realistic alternative in this case so it has become punitive noise contours, with an independent body able to make for travellers. decisions on how aircraft noise should be controlled in I recognise the importance of addressing the deficit highly populated areas. The introduction of an independent and do not dismiss it in the slightest, but international body would increase public confidence and ensure that evidence suggests that tax on aviation is such a constraint the existing noise monitoring undertaken by airports on other revenue that it outweighs the benefits economically. has a degree of independence, which it is currently not The hon. Member for Vauxhall referred to that. The perceived to have. That would also provide a more Irish Government committed to abolishing the tax robust approach and give additional transparency, as equivalent of APD because it viewed it as a barrier to those who are making the decisions about monitoring growth and tourism, despite it being set at ¤3. Most and about the frequency and timing of aircraft movements significantly, the tax in band B of APD covers flights of would be removed from having commercial interests in 2,000-4,000 miles at around £60 and £120 for economy the decisions. and business-class passengers respectively. Comparing The mapping and monitoring of noise exposure at that with the zero charges that the Irish Republic is designated airports is very helpful, but it should be introducing shows the difference that it can make to the considered for extension to airports with any significant cost of a flight. neighbouring residential population, so that anyone A PricewaterhouseCoopers study earlier this year living with aircraft noise is aware of the impact on their indicated that significant economic benefits could be health. In particular, when there are schools nearby, reaped from the abolition of APD. It estimated that that needs to be carefully considered. In my constituency, APD would boost GDP by 0.46% in the first year, and the George Best Belfast City airport is a hugely important amount to about £16 billion in the first three years and economic driver: it is a good employer, employing more create almost 60,000 jobs in the UK in the long term. than 1,000 people, both directly and indirectly, and it One of the most interesting facts in the report was that creates jobs and opportunities for the city of Belfast. the abolition of APD would pay for itself because the There is no doubt about that, but those who live close to increased revenue from income tax, VAT and higher the airport, under the flight path, find it difficult to deal employment and business growth would outweigh its with the effects. There are issues relating to how those loss. That is without the peripheral benefits, including effects, and the environmental impact, are monitored at more tourists coming to the UK and airlines expanding a UK level, and it would be helpful for us to consider their networks within the UK. It suggests that in the those in light of evidence that the Committee received. I first two years, the Government would gain increased thank the Minister for his attention to what we have revenue of about £500 million and about £250 million said, and I look forward to hearing his response. each year thereafter until 2020. That study builds on previous studies by Oxford 2.21 pm Economics, which suggested that abolishing APD would Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab): It is raise gross value added by between £1.8 billion and a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Amess, and it is a £2.9 billion because of the boost in the aviation and delight to follow the hon. Member for Belfast East tourism sectors from increased passenger numbers, (Naomi Long). She made reference to most of the and would create 40,000 to 60,000 new jobs. The extra report’s key points, which I will also refer to when I income available for consumers from lower airline ticket comment on the report, and she raised several other prices would also provide a stimulus to consumer spending, issues that I hope to cover. I thank the Chairman of the so additional spin-offs were predicted. To date, the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, the hon. Member Government have not accepted those studies so the for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), for the report and for answer is for the Treasury to commission its own his explanation of it: it is clearly a work of some independent cost-benefit analysis, as the hon. Member significance. It is a good to see the Minister in his place for Vauxhall suggested, to look at the impact of APD in to respond to the debate, and I hope not to be too long the light of research. in my contribution, because responding to the points I will not try to draw the Minister too far. I have that have been made is clearly a matter for the Government. frequently tried to do so in correspondence, and he has I want to make two non-financial declarations, resisted effectively. I am sure he will do so again today, Mr Amess. First, I have family in Belfast, not too far and I respect his deference to the Treasury, but I hope from the constituency of the hon. Member for Belfast that he will take the opportunity to reflect on the fact East, in Holywood. Secondly, I say to my hon. Friend 159WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 160WH

[Jim Fitzpatrick] The only potential recommendation that we have firmly set ourselves against is if the commission comes the Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) that I sailed out in favour of an estuary airport. I cannot imagine from Southampton to Belfast last year to help celebrate that it will, but that is one recommendation that we will the opening of the Titanic Belfast museum, which is a not take forward. However, we will look at anything else must for anyone interested in British history, British that Davies comes out with, as the Conservative party shipping or British tourism. Going to see it was a great has also said. I think that the Liberal Democrats are in opportunity that my wife and I took. a different place altogether on aviation. I am not clear exactly how they view aviation, given how important it My hon. Friend, along with the hon. Member for is as an economic tool, which everyone who has spoken Belfast East and the hon. Member for Tewkesbury, in the debate so far has recognised. made some powerful points on air passenger duty, and I will come back to those in due course. My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall also commented on links to Mr Laurence Robertson: If an additional airport is north America and particularly, potential new links to not in Labour’s plans at all, the hon. Gentleman must Canada, which the hon. Member for Belfast East also be sympathetic to the idea of a third runway at Heathrow. referred to. I am sure that the Minister will come back to those links in due course. Jim Fitzpatrick: For the avoidance of doubt, we have said that we will look at whatever the Davies commission My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall asked for proposes, with the exception of a potential recommendation the Opposition’s view on APD. I know that the Minister to build an estuary airport. We said that if that is a would say the same thing as I would; it is a Treasury recommendation, we are sorry, but we are not persuaded matter. However, I have had meetings with shadow at all by the evidence that that is the way to move Treasury Ministers, and the official Opposition policy is aviation forward as an economic tool for UK plc. that we have given a commitment to undertake a review However, we will look at point-to-point, additional of APD, because there is an understanding—I am sure runways at Gatwick or Stansted, or a new hub airport— with the Government as well, because of the comments whatever the Davies commission comes up with, we will that they have been making—of the impact that APD is look at, but an estuary airport, from our point of view, having on tourism, industry and connectivity. The hon. is off the table. Member for Belfast East made significant comments on the Oxford Economics report, the PricewaterhouseCoopers Anecdotally, a range of events have been organised report and what APD is doing, as well as whether it by a variety of different organisations, industry bodies, should be rebalanced and whether that could provide a think-tanks and so on. The best story that I have heard greater incentive for the UK economy to grow. I have no from many such meetings was a question-and-answer doubt that colleagues in the shadow Treasury team are session that included, on the top table, the chief executive keen to look at those issues. of Schiphol airport. When he was asked what he thinks the answer to the UK’s aviation policy should be, his The hon. Lady made some points reinforcing the response was, “It’s not for me to say, but the report’s recommendations, and I will try to refer to recommendation I would give is that you should take what she said briefly in my review of the recommendations. your time and think about it long and hard.” The longer One thing that I will is that from my time as aviation we take to make a decision, the more Schiphol is Minister, between 2007 and 2009, I know that the vast growing, day by day, week by week, and month by majority of airports take the issue of noise very seriously. month. We tried to reinforce the provisions, and the coalition As the hon. Member for Belfast East and my hon. has tried to reinforce the protection for communities Friend the Member for Vauxhall said, Schiphol advertises around airports. My understanding is that the expansion itself these days as the UK hub airport. It serves more of the airports in Paris, which we envy, because they than 20 British cities, while Heathrow only serves seven. have a greater capacity than we have, was partly dealt Therefore, the connectivity from our regions is dwindling, with by the appointment of a noise regulator for aviation and as slots from Heathrow become more precious and in Paris, which provided the independence that the hon. more airlines want to get in, that squeezes the ability for Lady is asking for. This is about reassuring the public our regions and for Northern Ireland, Scotland and that somebody—whether the Government, an economic elsewhere to get in. Capacity is a big issue, and the regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority, or whoever—is connectivity points made in recommendation 1 are looking at the noise footprint and can ensure that it is therefore significant. within the contours; that all the arrangements, whether compensation, double-glazing or air-conditioning, that On recommendation 2, we note the Government are in place for most airports are monitored appropriately; response. Naturally, I consulted my colleagues in the and that the matter is being dealt with efficiently. shadow Northern Ireland team and, if I may, I shall quote the points that they made to me. They said: On the report, the key question relates to “The main political issue is Air Passenger Duty.” recommendation 1 on connectivity. The Government, They are aware of the as I am sure the Minister will tell us, have set up the Davies commission, which is looking at capacity and “keen debate on this around regional airports in the UK, particularly connectivity. He knows that we think that it was a great re Scotland.” idea and that we suggested it 12 months before they did They say that their line to date, cleared with the shadow it, but the fact that they got round to it is to their credit. Treasury team, is that We fully support it, and Labour’s position is that we will “there are special circumstances in Northern Ireland. It is the wait to see the outcome of the commission and its only part of the UK that has a land border with another EU recommendations. member state, which has lower rates of APD. Belfast City airport 161WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 162WH and Belfast International airport both compete with Dublin…on Mr Laurence Robertson: Could I ask for clarification attracting airlines, routes and passengers. Conversely, it relies on something? We were told by the City of Derry on…air transport for a link to the rest of the UK. airport that UK guidelines are that The government has removed”— “railway access to airport terminals can only be justified when congratulations to the Government— passenger numbers reach 10 million per annum.” “APD on the long-haul New York flight from Belfast International Does the Minister know—perhaps he can write to me if airport, which we supported.” he needs to find out—whether that is a devolved or a That move is obviously well supported also in the Select reserved matter? Committee and by colleagues from Northern Ireland. My colleagues in the shadow Northern Ireland team Mr Burns: I hope that I can give some reassurance to go on to say: my hon. Friend. That is a devolved matter, but what I will do, in the spirit of co-operation and friendliness, is “We are sympathetic to the argument for reducing APD on all write to him with the precise details to explain why it is routes from Northern Ireland but would need to examine it fully, including the impact lowering the rate would have on the block and what the best way forward is for him and his grant. There are other options including looking at ‘protected Committee. routes’ that already exist in the UK for the air link to the Scottish islands, for example. Belfast-London Heathrow would be the Kate Hoey: Can the Minister just provide clarification? obvious one for this.” It is only a devolved matter if it has been devolved. We I cannot imagine that the Minister will say very much devolved the international route, but we have not devolved different. the GB-Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland-GB On recommendations 3, 4 and 5, the Government route. response says that they concern devolved matters, and clearly that is the case. With regard to recommendations Mr Burns: I am a bit confused because I thought that 6 and 7, I think that I covered the relevant points in my my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury was talking comments on APD. Recommendations 8 and 9 concern about rail links between airports in Northern Ireland. a key issue, and obviously the Government say so in their response. That matter is very much part of this Kate Hoey: That is devolved. debate. On recommendations 10 and 11, we are told: Mr Burns: Yes, it is. “The Government notes the comments on these areas”, Kate Hoey: Sorry. which I think is a very erudite thing to do. As I said at the beginning of my speech, this is an Mr Burns: That is all right. important report. I am pleased to be here to contribute to the debate. I thank hon. Members for their comments and the Chairman and his Committee for producing the Kate Hoey: Obviously, I was not listening. report. Like them, I look forward to the Minister’s response. Mr Burns: That is fine; the hon. Lady is fine. I just thought for one ghastly moment that I had walked into a huge hole, so I am relieved that it was not me—not 2.32 pm guilty, guv. The Minister of State, Department for Transport I welcome the fact that there is broad agreement—indeed, (Mr Simon Burns): It is a particular pleasure to serve unanimity—on the importance of maintaining the UK’s under your chairmanship, Mr Amess. I thank my hon. position as a leading global aviation hub. The Government Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) believe it to be vital to the Northern Ireland and wider and the Select Committee that he chairs for giving us UK economy. It is important to remember that the UK the opportunity to debate this report today. This has continues to have excellent aviation connectivity, both been an interesting, if sparsely attended, debate. on a point-to-point basis and through the London hub. The five airports serving London offer at least weekly We continue to work closely with the Northern Ireland direct services to more than 360 destinations worldwide, Executive on this important issue, because, as hon. which is more than Paris, Frankfurt or Amsterdam Members will appreciate, air transport policy remains Schiphol. We have the third largest aviation network in largely a reserved issue. However, as the recommendations the world after the United States and China. from the Committee and the Government response show, a number of issues are devolved to the Northern Northern Ireland is increasingly well connected both Ireland Executive. As I said, that is reflected by the to the rest of the UK and to the wider world. In 2012, British Government’s response to the Committee’s Northern Ireland airports operated services to 23 domestic recommendations. Things such as surface access to UK destinations on 36 routes, to 17 EU-27 destinations airports and matters pertaining to land-use planning on 19 routes, to three other European destinations and, are within the gift of the Northern Ireland Executive. as we have heard from a number of hon. Members, to Aircraft noise was mentioned by the hon. Member for one north American destination. Belfast East (Naomi Long). Those are all matters for the Northern Ireland Executive, so I hope that the Kate Hoey: I will try to restrict my interventions, but Committee will forgive me if I refrain from discussing I thought that as the Minister had mentioned the increase, them in detail, simply because it is not my door they it might be worth pointing out, as I have been a user of should be knocking at, but that of the Northern Ireland it and you are our Chairman, Mr Amess, that the new Executive. easyJet route from Southend to Belfast is very popular. 163WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 164WH

Mr Burns: I am particularly grateful to the hon. Lady competitive. In November 2011, my right hon. Friend for mentioning that. She is absolutely right to do so. I the Chancellor of the Exchequer reduced APD for am grateful not only because I am a Member from passengers travelling on direct long-haul routes departing God’s own county, where Southend airport is, but because from airports in Northern Ireland. That move secured only in the last few weeks I have had the pleasure of the continuation of the only current direct long-haul visiting Southend airport and being able to find out for service operating from Northern Ireland. The Government myself the increasing and expanding services that Southend have now gone further, as some hon. Members mentioned, airport is providing both to Northern Ireland and to and, reflecting the wishes of the Northern Ireland Executive, other destinations in Europe. I think that it has the have devolved to Northern Ireland the power to set accolade of being called London’s fifth airport. No APD rates for long-haul flights departing Northern doubt, Mr Amess, you will correct me if I am wrong. Ireland. The zero-APD rate for direct long-haul flights The Government believe that Northern Ireland is departing Northern Ireland, which took effect from 1 well placed to continue to grow the direct network as January 2013, puts Northern Ireland in a highly competitive well as to enjoy vital connections through the UK and position. continental hubs. The Government recognise that, like I listened carefully to my hon. Friend and the hon. elsewhere, the airports in Northern Ireland make a vital Members for Vauxhall and for Poplar and Limehouse, contribution to its economy. However, unlike in other and to the hon. Member for Belfast East in particular, parts of the UK, aviation plays a unique role in connecting when they spoke about the ways in which they would Northern Ireland with the rest of the country. As such, like to move forward. As the hon. Member for Belfast aviation connectivity with the rest of the UK is extremely East correctly anticipated, I will be consistent and my important to our national cohesion and will remain so. comments will reflect what I said to her in my We all know that the provision of commercial air correspondence: APD is a matter for my right hon. services is subject to market forces. Ultimately, airlines Friend the Chancellor and it would be sensible for her operate in a competitive, commercial environment and to convey her views to the Treasury, so that it is aware of it is for them to determine the routes that they operate what she believes should happen. I will not detain hon. and from which airports. It has been suggested that Members by going into detail on all the reasons for some form of intervention is necessary to protect air APD and why it is where it is at the moment, because services between Northern Ireland and London from that is well known. They can rest assured that we are commercial market pressures. The hon. Member for aware of the views on and the reasons for APD and that Belfast East mentioned that. But air links to Northern the Treasury regularly monitors the situation carefully. Ireland remain commercially viable. Northern Ireland is well connected by air to London, with more than Kate Hoey: I know that the Minister has to stick to 18,000 flights a year between the two Belfast airports Government policies overall, but he is the Minister for and the five main London airports. Those flights handled Transport, so does he have a view that he could quietly just over 1.9 million passengers in 2012. Over a third tell us here? There are very few people here. What does were between Belfast and Heathrow. That said, the he personally think? Government fully support the efforts of the Northern Ireland Executive to develop the route network of Northern Mr Burns: The hon. Lady is extremely charming and Ireland further. in many ways intellectually seductive. She too has been Northern Ireland is also unique within the United a Minister. There may be only four close honourable Kingdom in that it shares a land border with another friends of mine sitting in the Chamber, but unfortunately EU member state, as was mentioned by the hon. Members the walls have ears. I have always found that it is for Belfast East and for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) and by extremely wise when one is a member of a governing the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Poplar and Administration to be bound by collective responsibility, Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick). Although that brings many which I happen to believe in as well; one fully understands benefits, the Government are highly conscious of the the merits of the cases that the Government put forward greater competition that it creates when securing air as their policy and one fully supports them. I hope that services, especially long-haul services. As such, in the explains to the hon. Lady that what my right hon. recent Northern Ireland economic pact, we confirmed Friend the Chancellor had to do was due to the that the Government and Executive will work together unsatisfactory, if not catastrophic, economic situation to consider with the US authorities and other interested we inherited in May 2010. We have had to take some stakeholders the feasibility of establishing US pre-clearance tough and difficult decisions. He is right, because it is facilities at Belfast International airport. It is complex right that we address the problems of the debt and the work, with practical and legal issues that need to be deficit. addressed, but given that such facilities are currently I shall move on to the probably more neutral subject available at Dublin and Shannon airports, we hope that of aviation policy frameworks. Overall, the Government progress can be made quickly. I think that all hon. want aviation to continue across the country. To that Members present today, and those beyond the Chamber, end, we continue to deliver: we have delivered the Civil fully appreciate the importance of establishing such a Aviation Act 2012, to bring the regulatory framework service, if the discussions and negotiations between our up to date, and we are implementing the recommendations countries can come to successful fruition. of the south-east task force. We have also acted to I think that every hon. Member has mentioned air ensure that the Northern Ireland aviation sector remains passenger duty in the debate. As hon. Members have competitive. We plan to create an economic climate that been gracious enough to mention in their comments, enables people to travel and to use aviation to conduct the Government have already taken action to ensure business and visit friends and family as easily and that the Northern Ireland aviation sector remains cost-effectively as possible. Many people in Northern 165WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 166WH

Ireland are concerned, as those in the rest of the country Mr Burns: I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but I are, about capacity, particularly capacity in London fundamentally disagree with him. The issues are extremely and south-east England. Although it is across the Irish complex and difficult, and they have stumped successive sea from Northern Ireland, capacity there does, as hon. previous Governments—we have been going around Members have said, have a knock-on effect on those the houses for 30 or 40 years without a final conclusion. who wish to fly long-haul from Belfast and other parts A timetable of just short of three years, to consider the of Northern Ireland to the rest of the world. They will recommendations for the short term and, hopefully, to frequently travel to London to meet their connections find a proper and lasting solution for the long term, is and then travel on or, as hon. Members have said, in the right time scale. With that, there can be no accusations some cases they go to Dublin. that it is a botched job, or that it has been rushed The Government believe that maintaining the UK’s because of an artificial deadline, and we will be able to status as a leading global aviation hub is fundamental get the right and relevant recommendation, which will to our long-term international competitiveness. To make secure our moving forward to keep our hub status and decisions, we need our evidence on the way forward to everything that flows from that. We will, hopefully, then be as up to date as possible. Dealing with airport be able to get cross-party consensus. capacity, increasing the size of existing airports or I think that all the political parties have behaved creating new airports is highly controversial and arouses responsibly—sometimes uncharacteristically so, where strong emotions. It is essential that we get it right, which British politics is concerned—in reaching consensus on is why I welcome the comments from the hon. Member high-speed rail, and when the Davies commission has for Poplar and Limehouse on his party’s attitude to how reported, ideally we will be able to reach consensus on we are moving forward, but I exclude from that welcome its recommendations. We will have to wait and see, but I the comments he made about Boris island; I must be think that the time scale is respectable and responsible, totally independent, so I do not want to comment on and provides the time for the work to be done without any option and compromise that independence. rushing it.

Jim Fitzpatrick: The only difficulty we have with the Mr Laurence Robertson: I hear what the Minister Davies commission is the timetable the Government says, but the problem is that when the report comes out have given it to arrive at its conclusions, which is after it will not be the end of the story. Everything then has the 2015 general election. Like Mayor Boris Johnson, to be negotiated, and then something has to be agreed, the CBI and the aviation industry, we would much and built. So let us say that in 2015 a third runway at rather the deadline was brought forward to before the Heathrow is recommended. When does the Minister general election, so that parties have an opportunity to estimate it would be operational? examine the recommendations and include them or otherwise in their manifestos, and people can have the Mr Burns: I am not going to fall into the trap of opportunity to decide. signing up to, “Let’s say it’s the third runway at Heathrow airport”. The Davies commission is totally independent Mr Burns: I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but and I, as a Minister in the Department for Transport, perhaps I should let sleeping dogs lie; he kindly did not will not in any shape or form be tempted into that, even mention that topic in his comments. The time scale that as an example, because it could be misconstrued—as I has been given, with interim recommendations for the said earlier, walls have ears—and I certainly do not short term announced at the end of the year and a want to compromise the commission’s independence. full-blown report with recommendations in the summer Nevertheless, I get my hon. Friend’s point about how of 2015, is the right one. On a very complex, difficult long any major infrastructure improvement project in and controversial subject, the commission must have this country, however much support it has in the political the right amount of time to assess fully all the evidence arena, takes to go from the idea, and the acceptance of and come to a proper decision, rather than rush it for an the idea, to laying down the first bricks and opening the artificial, more short-term deadline. I fear that if it had first door for the service, or whatever it is. That is had a shorter time scale, all those who did not like another issue and, speaking from a purely personal whatever recommendation the commission made, would point of view, I think it has to be considered, but I do accuse it of a botched job because it was a rushed job, think that the right way forward is for an expert organisation because it did not have enough time. that is divorced from party politics to consider the issue and come up with a solution. I hope that one can then Jim Fitzpatrick: Forgive me, Mr Amess, but I must get swift consensus among the political parties—or the comment that the Davies commission was appointed major ones—so that we can move forward. more than 12 months ago. It has a three-year job, but From the past 24 hours, my hon. Friend will appreciate there is no way that it takes three years to arrive at that notwithstanding the fact that most issues in the conclusions on an issue such as aviation capacity in the House of Commons have some opposition, having broad south-east. There is so much evidence available. Three consensus that one is doing the right thing makes some years is far too long. The timetable is a political stitch-up of the parliamentary processes easier, and avoids one to get past the general election, because the issue is a political party being against another in a kind of guerrilla deal breaker for the coalition. That is the reality in warfare, trying to slow down and thwart what might be politics. I am not knocking it; it is just where we happen in the national interest. That is why the decision made to be. The timetable could have been shorter and that by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for would not have truncated the opportunity for a full, Transport to set up the Davies commission was the thorough and comprehensive examination of the issues right one, and I look forward to the commission’s by the commission. recommendations in the summer of 2015, so that we 167WH Air Transport (Northern Ireland)27 JUNE 2013 Air Transport (Northern Ireland) 168WH

[Mr Simon Burns] On the time scale, I have some sympathy with the Government, because airport capacity in the south-east can seek to build political consensus and move forward. should have been sorted out long ago by the previous That is crucial, not only for Britain’s interests but for Labour Government, but we need to speed up the Northern Ireland’s as well. process. I am concerned about how long it will take for This has been an important and interesting debate, the review, for action to be taken and then for building and I welcome the fact that we have been able to discuss work to be completed. Northern Ireland might lose an the valuable contributions made. As I said at the beginning, awful lot of jobs while that is going on, and I am very a number of the issues are devolved to Northern Ireland, concerned about that. and the Committee might well want to pursue them Let us say that the recommendation is made next year further with the Northern Ireland Executive. and that it is for a third runway. From a political point of view, if the Lib Dems do not like that, they can go into the election saying that they will not pursue that 2.55 pm option, and we can go into it saying that we will. I do not see what is wrong with that. We will get to the point, Mr Laurence Robertson: Thank you, Mr Amess. This before the next election, at which we disagree on several has, indeed, been an interesting debate, and we have issues with the Lib Dems—and with the Labour party—and covered all the relevant issues that are very important to we will all go into the election putting forward our own Northern Ireland. I thank everyone who has spoken, views. and I thank the Minister for his comprehensive response. I would be nervous about going into the election and I talked about competing with the Republic of Ireland saying to the electorate, “I’m sorry, we have no policy.” or with Dublin. I should put on the record that as well This is a political point—you may rule me out of order as chairing the Select Committee, I co-chair the British-Irish in a minute, Mr Amess—but I would have a problem Parliamentary Assembly, so I meant competition in a about going into the election and saying to my constituents, very friendly way. The Irish Government support reducing “I’m sorry, I don’t have a clue what we should do in the corporation tax to 12.5% in Northern Ireland, so I south-east.” I will not be doing that; I will be putting speak about such competition on the basis of co-operation. forward a very definite view. I want to impress on the It would be helpful if the Minister came back to me Minister the importance of that point. on my specific point about railway access to airport The debate has been very valuable: we have made our terminals, and we can take it from there. points to the Minister. I have known him for many I entirely agree with the points made, particularly by years, and I know that he will go away, take those points the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey), about EU on board and do his absolute utmost to help the people interference on air passenger duty and landing slots. We of Northern Ireland. It has been a privilege to lead this should make our own decisions in this country, and debate. As I have said, the very important thing to do in perhaps we will be doing so by the end of 2017. Northern Ireland is to rebalance the economy, and one way to help do so is by securing the aviation that enables The Minister spoke about the reasons for APD, of people to travel not just to the mainland, but to the which there are two: one is to raise tax and the other continent and to the growing markets that are emerging relates to green issues. On those green issues, if we throughout the world. over-tax our airlines, we will not reduce the number of Question put and agreed to. flights or save the world; people will just fly from somewhere else. That is the point we have been trying to 2.59 pm get across. Sitting adjourned. 9WS Written Statements27 JUNE 2013 Written Statements 10WS

LEP Allocations for ERDF and ESF 2014-20 Written Statements LEP Allocation ¤m1

Black Country 177.4 Thursday 27 June 2013 Buckinghamshire Thames Valley 13.9 Cheshire and Warrington 142.2 Coast to Capital 67.3 Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly 592.9 Coventry and Warwickshire 136.0 BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Cumbria 91.4 Derby, Derbyshire, Nottingham and 249.7 Nottinghamshire Dorset 47.3 ERDF/ESF 2014-20 Enterprise M3 45.7 Gloucestershire 38.3 Greater Birmingham and Solihull 255.8 The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills Greater Cambridge & Greater Peterborough 75.5 (Vince Cable): I am today confirming how the ¤6.2 billion Greater Lincolnshire 133.5 England allocation of the European regional development Greater Manchester 415.6 fund (ERDF) and the European social fund (ESF) will be allocated. Heart of the South West 118.3 Hertfordshire 69.5 The European regional development fund, the European Humber 102.4 social fund and part of the European agricultural fund Lancashire 266.3 for rural development (EAFRD) will be allocated to Leeds City Region 391.2 local enterprise partnerships (LEP) areas for a full Leicester and Leicestershire 126.3 seven-year period through a new decentralised EU growth programme. Liverpool City Region 221.9 London 748.6 The Government have given a commitment that the New Anglia 94.5 growth programme funds will be allocated to local North Eastern 539.6 enterprise partnership (LEP) areas as an important new Northamptonshire 55.0 source of finance to stimulate local growth and jobs. This marks a significant shift from previous European Oxfordshire LEP 19.4 programmes which were substantially centralised with Sheffield City Region 203.4 limited local involvement in many key areas. Under this Solent 43.1 new model, decision-making powers will be transferred South East 185.9 from Whitehall to local areas. LEPs and local partners South East Midlands 88.3 will be in charge of European funds that will provide Stoke-on-Trent and Staffordshire 161.6 significant investment in innovation, business, skills and Swindon and Wiltshire 43.6 employment in a common agenda for growth and jobs Tees Valley 202.6 that will integrate effectively with wider LEP strategic Thames Valley Berkshire 28.7 plans. The Marches 113.7 In February, the Prime Minister negotiated a real-terms West of England 68.6 cut in the EU budget for the first time in history. As the Worcestershire 68.1 independent Office for Budget Responsibility has said, York and North Yorkshire 97.5 the effect of this deal was to reduce its forecast for what taxpayers across all parts of the UK will pay by £3.5 billion over the next five years. The Government have set allocations that deliver the National Minimum Wage fairest split of funding across England, as far as EU rules allow. Allocations by LEP area for ERDF and ESF are set out in the annex. Allocations for the part of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, EAFRD being channelled through the growth programme Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson): The Government will be published at a later date by the Department for have today written to the Low Pay Commission setting Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. out the remit for its 2014 report. Gibraltar’s current allocation will be frozen at ¤9 million The Government support the national minimum wage and will be taken from the England allocation for (NMW) because of the protection it provides to low-paid “more developed” regions (Gibraltar is counted in this workers and the incentives to work it provides. Our aim category). is to have NMW rates that help as many low-paid The Government have today also confirmed the detailed workers as possible, while making sure that we do not allocations for the highlands and islands region in Scotland damage their employment prospects. as ¤172 million and the allocation for west Wales as The Low Pay Commission (LPC) is asked to: ¤1,783 million and for east Wales as ¤361 million. Monitor, evaluate and review the levels of each of the different All allocations are subject to final agreement on NMW rates and make recommendations on the levels it believes the EU regulations and the EU 2014-20 budget in the should apply from October 2014. European Parliament. The European Commission will Review the contribution the NMW could make to the employment also need to agree the UK Government’s specific proposals. prospects of young people. 11WS Written Statements27 JUNE 2013 Written Statements 12WS

In making recommendations in the areas set out I am grateful for the careful consideration which the above, the Low Pay Commission is asked to take account STRB has given to this important matter. Copies of the of the state of the economy, and employment and STRB’s 22nd Report have been laid before Parliament unemployment levels. today and are available in the Vote Office, the Printed Timing Paper Office and the Libraries of both Houses, and online at: www.education.gov.uk and www.ome.uk.com. In addition, the LPC is asked to report to the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, and the Secretary of The STRB has recommended that a 1% pay award State for Business, Innovation and Skills by end February should be applied equally to all salaries and allowances 2014. in payment, and to all points on the pay scales contained in the School Teachers Pay and Conditions Document Copies of the remit have been placed in the Libraries (STPCD). This includes an increase of 1% from September of both Houses. 2013 in the values of: All points on the unqualified, main and upper pay scales for classroom teachers; TREASURY The minimum and maximum of the pay range for leading practitioners and all pay ranges for individual posts set before taking account of the September 2013 uplift; Welsh Funding All points on the leadership pay spine; Any individual allowances in payment and to the minima and the maxima of the ranges for all teacher allowances. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): I am grateful to the STRB for these recommendations As agreed by the terms of the October 2012 joint and, subject to the views of consultees, I intend to statement on funding reform, the Welsh Government accept them in full. and UK Government completed a joint review of the My officials will shortly write to all of the statutory pattern of convergence in Welsh relative funding in consultees of the STRB to invite them to contribute to advance of the 2015-16 spending round. a consultation on my acceptance of these recommendations, In the run up to the spending round, Welsh Government and on the text of the 2013 STPCD. The consultation and Treasury officials tested alternative spending scenarios will last for four weeks. for 2015-16 which were then assessed for their impact on Welsh relative funding levels. Based on this analysis, both Governments were able to conclude that no ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE convergence is forecast during the 2015-16 spending period. That conclusion was formally recorded in an Electricity Market Reform exchange of letters, between the Welsh Finance Minister and me, that took place ahead of the spending round announcement. The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Following the spending round announcement yesterday, (Mr Edward Davey): The Government are making a I am now able to confirm the relative funding trend for range of key announcements today in relation to reform Wales up to 2015-16. There will be a small degree of of the electricity market. Electricity market reform (EMR) divergence in Welsh relative funding during 2015-16 as is a central component of the Energy Bill currently shown in the table below: being considered by Parliament, and will address the need to attract unprecedented levels of investment in Wales Relative Funding (England = 100) the UK electricity sector over the coming decades as we 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 2015-16 replace our ageing energy infrastructure with a diverse 115.0 114.6 115.1 115.5 115.8 mix of low-carbon generation, and meet the expected increases in electricity demand as sectors such as transport This work was taken forward collaboratively with the and heat are electrified. Welsh Government and is a good example of the two The Energy Bill includes clauses to introduce contracts Governments working together for the benefit of Wales for difference, to support investment in low-carbon and the rest of the UK. The review process will be generation, and a capacity market, to ensure security of repeated ahead of the next formal spending review and supply. I look forward to continuing to work closely with the Welsh Government on this process in the future. Contracts for Difference (CfDs) CfDs form a core component of the Government’s strategy to bring forward investment in affordable low- EDUCATION carbon electricity generation—including renewables, carbon capture and storage and new nuclear. CfDs provide efficient and long-term support for low-carbon generation, School Teachers’ Review Body (22nd Report) reducing risks faced by generators by increasing revenue certainty and through the backing of a long-term contract. Generators are paid the difference between the market The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove): price and a “strike price”, but when the market price is The “22nd Report of the School Teachers’ Review high the generator must pay back the difference, which Body” (STRB) is being published today. The report reduces costs to consumers when electricity prices are contains recommendations on how to apply the pay high. The Government are announcing today alongside award that is due to be implemented from September the spending review draft CfD strike prices for renewables 2013. technologies, decisions on key CfD terms, and the levy 13WS Written Statements27 JUNE 2013 Written Statements 14WS control framework (LCF) profile to 2020-21. I am laying ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS before Parliament our policy document “Electricity Market Reform—Delivering UK Investment”. Flood Insurance The aim of these announcements is to give investors early sight of the principal contract parameters, including terms and draft strike prices. We intend to publish TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof StateforEnvironment, further detail (including supporting methodology and Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): The current analysis, a draft capacity market reliability standard, voluntary agreement on flood insurance between and a forward look to 2030) in the draft delivery plan Government and the insurance industry, termed the for EMR in July. We will publish detailed drafting of statement of principles, ends shortly. Without new key CfD contract terms in early August. arrangements, there is concern that households at flood risk will not have access to the affordable insurance The paper will be available at: cover they need. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ Flood insurance is a complex problem. Ministers electricity-market-reform-delivering-uk-investment. have consistently said that the aim is to find a solution The Capacity Market which secures the availability of affordable flood insurance for households at risk of flooding without placing A key part of the challenge our market faces is in unsustainable costs on wider policyholders and the ensuring secure electricity supplies. In addition to the taxpayer. Our preference is to work in partnership with closure of ageing plant and increasing demand, the UK the insurance industry to deliver this. is seeking to decarbonise its electricity supply in order to meet our carbon reduction targets. These changes This Government have therefore been working hard create an investment challenge, for some forms of capacity to develop a new approach with the Association of such as gas generation. The Government are taking British Insurers (ABI) that promises to allow affordable clear action to address this by legislating to introduce flood insurance to continue to be available. I am grateful the capacity market. The capacity market will give to my right hon. Friend the Minister for Government investors the certainty they need to put adequate reliable Policy who has led these discussions on behalf of the capacity in place and by protecting consumers against Government. the risk of supply shortages. It does this by providing a I am today launching a public consultation on how predictable revenue stream to providers of reliable capacity, we intend to move forward. We will seek the necessary including both generation and non-generation measures powers to take action in the Water Bill, also published such as demand-side-response and storage. In return, today. they must commit to provide capacity when needed or Following extensive discussions with the Association face financial penalties. of British Insurers, we have established the principles Government have confirmed today they intend to for a new flood insurance solution based on their “Flood run the first capacity market auction in late 2014, for Re”proposal. I will arrange for copies of the memorandum delivery in 2018-19—subject to state-aid clearance. In of understanding we have reached with the ABI to be addition, I am laying before Parliament our proposal placed in the Library of the House along with the document “Electricity Market Reform: Capacity Market— consultation document. Detailed Design Proposals”. Flood Re promises to effectively limit the most that hundreds of thousands of UK households should have The detailed design proposals published today have to pay for flood insurance. We anticipate that up to been developed following discussion with stakeholders, 500,000 high-risk households could benefit from Flood and provide further detail on all elements of capacity Re, and pay significantly less for their insurance than market design. By publishing this detail now Government they might otherwise. Customers would be free to shop are seeking to give investors the information and time around to get the best overall deal from an insurer of they need to start preparing for the capacity market. their choice as well as limiting the potential for price We intend to consult in October on these proposals rises, with some customers seeing prices fall. Flood Re and draft secondary legislation to implement them. would also constrain the excesses that could be imposed Secondary legislation will be subject to Parliamentary on households at high flood risk. scrutiny in 2014 and it is expected to enter into force in The benefits of Flood Re would be targeted towards July 2014. those who need it most, helping those who are particularly Ofgem has also today published its 2013 capacity hard-pressed with the cost of living. Furthermore, the assessment—this shows de-rated capacity margins ABI has assured Ministers that its proposal can be decreasing faster in the next few years than in Ofgem’s introduced without impacting customer bills in general. 2012 assessment. In response, Ofgem has published a An internal industry levy would fund Flood Re, capturing letter seeking stakeholders’ views on the rationale for, the existing cross-subsidy in the market. Flood Re would and principle of, National Grid Electricity Transmission operate as a not-for-profit reinsurance scheme managed plc (NGET) procuring new balancing services to support by the insurance industry itself. There will be no contingent electricity security of supply during this period. The liability for the Government or the taxpayer from the Government, Ofgem and National Grid have a shared Flood Re scheme. view of the risks and the suitability of the solutions Flood Re would be a novel approach and there being proposed for both the short and medium-term. remain many details to work through with the industry, including the relationship between Flood Re and The paper will be available at: Parliament. Our broad intention is that Flood Re, rather https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ than Ministers, would be directly accountable to Parliament electricity-market-reform-capacity-market-proposals. for its ongoing operations. Ministers would of course 15WS Written Statements27 JUNE 2013 Written Statements 16WS remain accountable to Parliament for overall policy on to ensure, that one way or another, flood insurance is flood insurance. While novel, these arrangements are not just available but also that it is affordable. I believe intended to strike a balance between the full requirements that the proposals set out today will achieve this, and of accountability to Parliament and the need for Flood will for the first time provide real peace of mind to Re to operate as an integral part of the insurance households at flood risk. With our investment in flood market. I am writing with further details on this point defence, and our approach to ensuring that only appropriate to the chairs of the Environment, Food and Rural development takes place in flood risk areas, I am confident Affairs, Treasury, and Public Accounts Committees. we have the right approach to tackling the long-term of Due to the statutory nature of the levy, Flood Re is also risk of flooding. likely to be classed as state aid and so would need to be Together our approach will help us build what we approved by the European Commission. want to see—a stronger and more resilient economy in a While it is our preference to work with the industry fairer society. towards Flood Re there are therefore still significant issues to be overcome, many outside of the Government’s control. Households deserve to have confidence that Triennial Reviews this issue will be addressed one way or another. Because of the remaining uncertainties around Flood Re, the Government will also seek powers in the Water Bill to The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural regulate for affordable flood insurance. This approach Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson): Today I am publishing the would be pursued if Flood Re would not or does not report of the review of the Environment Agency (EA) deliver what we need, and insurers are otherwise unable and Natural England (NE), which I launched in December to keep prices at affordable levels. If introduced, the 2012, and the report of the review of the Joint Nature fall-back regulatory approach would place an obligation Conservation Committee (JNCC), which commenced on each insurer to take their share of high flood risk in March 2013. households, or face penalties. This flood insurance obligation would have the objective of sustaining the These reviews have taken a fundamental look at how existing market for high-risk households at affordable the bodies can continue to deliver the Government’s prices. priorities for the environment with improved resilience in the face of current and future environmental and This Government do not intervene in markets economic challenges. unnecessarily, and whichever approach is finally pursued it would only operate for a limited time, and would be I have concluded that the EA and NE should be withdrawn within 20 to 25 years. In the long term we retained as separate public bodies with separate purposes need to create a situation where everyone is fully aware and functions, but that both bodies should continue to of their level of flood risk, and households and communities reform how they deliver their services to their customers are rewarded through their future bills for the steps they and drive further efficiencies. take to reduce flood risk. The bodies will be tasked with delivering the conclusions We are seeking views on this as the way forward of the reviews, developing a jointly owned implementation through a six-week public consultation. The Water Bill plan in close consultation with DEFRA. DEFRA will being published today will contain a placeholder clause hold to account the leadership of both bodies for the on flood insurance. Following public consultation I delivery of the reforms. intend to announce final proposals and introduce updated Working with the devolved Administrations of Northern clauses to the Water Bill by Government amendment Ireland, Scotland, Wales on the review of JNCC, I have later this year. concluded that JNCC is the most appropriate organisation The best way of securing affordable insurance in the to deliver its functions, and should be retained as a long term is and will always be to reduce the chance of non-departmental public body. The review has identified flooding in the first place. Investing in flood risk a number of measures to deliver a more effective and management remains at the top of the Government’s efficient service which JNCC will now implement, priorities. The Government also provide a range of developing their implementation plans in close consultation further support for households to reduce their risk of with DEFRA and the devolved Adminstrations, and flooding and find affordable insurance, for instance by reporting regularly on progress. signing up to free flood warnings, and help with fitting The reports of these reviews will be published online, flood gates and other property-level protection measures. and copies will be placed in the Libraries of both I am also pleased to inform the House that insurers Houses. have agreed to continue to meet their commitments under the statement of principles until such a time as Flood Re can begin operation. This will provide valuable and immediate reassurance for householders. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE The Water Bill will also reform the water sector to support growth and improve resilience, while ensuring it continues to attract long-term investment. It will introduce Afghanistan (Monthly Progress Report) more competition in order to create a more innovative, efficient and dynamic sector which meets future demands and offers customers more choice and better service. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth This Government are committed to delivering a new Affairs (Mr William Hague): I wish to inform the House approach to flood insurance that is better than the that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, together statement of principles it will replace. I am determined with the Ministry of Defence and the Department 17WS Written Statements27 JUNE 2013 Written Statements 18WS for International Development, is today publishing the Library of the House. I have also deposited a copy of 28th progress report on developments in Afghanistan the calendar of ministerial meetings for the duration since November 2010. of their presidency. Voter registration ahead of the 2014 presidential and provincial elections was begun as expected on 26 May. Women make up 50% of the voter registration teams. Phase 1 focused on 41 registration centres across all HEALTH 34 provinces. Limited progress was made on the passage of two important pieces of legislation which will form the structural basis of the electoral system used for the Health Council 2014 and 2015 electoral cycle. As the fighting season intensifies, we have seen an The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health increase in enemy-initiated and spectacular attacks, (Anna Soubry): The health part of the Employment, particularly in the east, west and north of the country. Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs (EPSCO) Nevertheless, violence levels within central Helmand Council met on 21 June 2013 in Luxembourg. I represented appear lower than at the same point in the fighting the UK. season last year and the ANSF are holding firm. The ANSF responded well to attacks on the International After considerable discussion and changes to the Organisation for Migration (IOM) in Kabul and the proposed text to address concerns of member states, International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) in including the United Kingdom, the Council agreed a Jalalabad. general approach to the tobacco products directive. The UK secured a number of key changes to address UK On 8 May, the Prime Minister confirmed in Parliament policy priorities including: the ability to maintain picture that UK force levels will be reduced to around 7,900 by warnings on all types of smoked tobacco; a more flexible the end of May, and to around 5,200 by the end of approach to cross-border distance sales; adequate freedom 2013, in line with security transition and progress on the for member states to take forward domestic public ground. health policies in certain key areas, aiming for a higher On 15 May the NATO military chiefs of defence met level of health protection where this is justified. The and endorsed the concept of operations for the post-2014 UK supported the general approach. Four member NATO train, advise and assist mission in Afghanistan. states were not able to support the general approach. Their advice to NATO Defence Ministers recognises The presidency provided progress reports on negotiations the initial requirement for a regional approach to security. on the clinical trials regulation and the medical devices On 14 May the Defence Secretary announced that regulations. some UK forces deploying to Afghanistan this October Under any other business, the presidency provided on Herrick 19 will serve up to eight months, rather than information about the proposal for a decision on serious the usual six-month tours. In addition some personnel cross-border threats to health, the drugs action plan, deploying on Herrick 20 in June 2014 may be required the importation of active pharmaceutical products, the to serve up to nine months, to complete redeployment cross-border healthcare directive, the transparency directive activity in Afghanistan should it continue into 2015. and middle east respiratory syndrome coronavirus. This will help to align our presence with key milestones between now and the end of 2014, such as the presidential In the margins of the meeting I discussed the UK’s elections and help to maintain operational continuity. front-of-pack labelling scheme for food with Commissioner Those personnel affected by the extended tours will be Borg and the Italian Minister, emphasising the voluntary compensated from the 7.5 month point through the new nature of the recommendation. Herrick draw-down allowance of £50 per day before tax. This will be paid on top of the standard operational INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT allowance package (except for those in receipt of campaign continuity allowance). I am placing the report in the Library of the House. Departmental Annual Report and Accounts It will also be published on the gov.uk website www.gov.uk/ government/publications/afghanistan-progress-report- May-2013. The Secretary of State for International Development (Justine Greening): I have today published and laid before Parliament, the Department for International Development’s annual report and accounts for the year Lithuania Presidency 2012-13. The report provides information on DFID’s activities during 2012-13 in line with the International Development The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): Iam (Reporting and Transparency) Act 2006 and includes a keen to keep Members fully informed on developments full set of accounts for 2012-13. The report will be in the European Union and their implications for the placed in the Libraries of the House of Commons United Kingdom and our priorities. I would, therefore, and House of Lords for the reference of Members and like to draw Members’ attention to a paper on the copies will be made available in the Vote Office and priorities of the Lithuanian presidency of the Council Printed Paper Office. It is also available online on the of the European Union, which has been placed in the Gov.UK website. 19WS Written Statements27 JUNE 2013 Written Statements 20WS

JUSTICE These proposals would also reduce the time and money that is currently wasted by many applicants as only 50% of them complete the current application Office for Judicial Complaints (Annual Report 2012-13) process. Instead, the new system incorporates transferable credits which trainees will be able to carry forward to The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice other vocational qualifications, if they change their (Chris Grayling): With the concurrence of the Lord mind about becoming an ADI. This allows for better Chief Justice, I will today publish the seventh annual job mobility. report of the Office for Judicial Complaints (OJC), The consultation will run from 27 June to 8 August 2013. which provides support to the Lord Chief Justice and The consultation paper is available at the following web myself in our joint responsibility for the system of address: judicial complaints and discipline. www.gov.uk/government/consultations/modernising- Over the past year the OJC has seen the volume of driver-training. complaints it receives increase by a third; receiving over 2,100 complaints and 550 written inquiries. I am pleased, therefore, that the OJC continues to deliver a good service; providing complainants with a first substantive WORK AND PENSIONS response within 15 working days in 93% of all cases it receives. Subject to parliamentary approval, this annual report Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer will be the last published by the OJC prior to the Affairs Council introduction of the Judicial Discipline (Prescribed Procedures) Regulations 2013. The new regulations are the product of a review conducted by a working group, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions led by Lord Toulson, and seek to establish a more (Mr Mark Hoban): The Employment, Social Policy, efficient and streamlined process for handling complaints Health and Consumer Affairs Council met on 20 June 2013 about the conduct of judicial office holders. in Luxembourg. I represented the UK. The introduction of the new regulations will also see There was a discussion on the European semester the OJC become the Judicial Conduct Investigations 2013 focusing on a number of documents linked to the Office (JCIO). I am confident that the JCIO will build European semester. The UK stressed the importance of on the solid foundations laid by the OJC over the last the semester process in driving forward robust national seven years and, in tandem with the introduction of the labour market reforms and called on the Commission new regulations, will deliver further improvements and to share their staff working documents with member efficiencies in the handling of judicial conduct complaints. states in advance. Copies of the report are available in the Libraries of There was a separate discussion on youth employment. both Houses, the Vote Office and the Printed Paper The UK cited its labour market flexibility and highlighted Office. Copies of the report are also available on the the youth contract and the work programme as key internet at: http://judicialcomplaints.judiciary.gov.uk/ factors behind the fall in UK youth unemployment at a publications.htm. time when youth unemployment has risen in the EU. The Council agreed a general approach on the European TRANSPORT globalisation adjustment fund regulation (2014-20). The UK opposed this and stressed concerns about the efficiency of the instrument. There was also a progress report on Approved Driving Instructors the fund for European aid for the most deprived regulation. The presidency secured Council agreement for a general The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport approach on the proposed directive on minimum (Stephen Hammond): The Driving Standards Agency requirements for enhancing worker mobility by improving (DSA) today launched a consultation on a reform of the acquisition and preservation of supplementary pension the regulatory framework for approved driving instructors rights. The presidency provided updates on directives (ADIs). The consultation seeks views on improving the on equal treatment between persons irrespective of religion way that people qualify to become driving instructors, or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation; enforcement including replacing the existing DSA qualifying tests of directive 96/71/EC on posting of workers in the with a new vocational qualification delivered by approved framework of the provision of services; and gender training centres and assessed by an external awarding balance among non-executive directors of companies organisation. listed on stock exchanges. The new qualification would be aligned with DSA’s Ministers adopted two sets of Council conclusions national standards that set out what skills are needed to on social investment for growth and cohesion and on be an effective driving instructor, and would reflect any women in the media. changes introduced as a result of the Government’s Under any other business, the presidency provided upcoming Green Paper on young drivers. updates on legislative files and preparations for the The consultation also considers reforming the trainee upcoming G20 Labour and Employment Ministers meeting licence scheme so that trainees would only be able to and joint meeting with Finance Ministers. The Commission give paid tuition when accompanied by a fully qualified presented its legislative proposal on public employment instructor; and seeks views on minor changes to the services (PES) and the Lithuanian delegation outlined administration of the ADI register. the work programme of their forthcoming presidency. 21WS Written Statements27 JUNE 2013 Written Statements 22WS

Social Fund (Annual Report 2012-13) review will look at the functions of all four bodies and whether they should continue to exist in their current form. If the review determines that these bodies should The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions continue, it will go on to consider whether they are (Steve Webb): The Secretary of State’s annual report on operating in line with the recognised principles of good the social fund for 2012-13 will be published later today. corporate governance. I will inform the House of the The report records that total gross expenditure in outcome of the review when it is completed and will 2012-13, excluding winter fuel payments, was £924 million. place a copy of the review in the Libraries of both This figure includes 197,000 non-repayable community Houses. care grants and more than 2.8 million interest-free loans awarded worth over £558 million. Also, cold weather payments worth over £146 million, funeral payments Work Programme Official Statistics worth £43 million and Sure Start maternity grants worth £39 million were paid. In addition, over 9 million households benefited from The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions a winter fuel payment at an estimated cost of around (Mr Mark Hoban): The Department for Work and £2.1 billion. Pensions has today released official statistics covering the performance of the Work programme up to the end This has been an important year in the history of the of March 2013, showing performance to the end of the social fund as preparations were made to abolish those second financial year of the Work programme . parts—community care grants and crisis loans—that had not kept pace with wider welfare reforms. They The Work programme is designed to help people who were too complex for ordinary people to understand are at risk of becoming long-term unemployed. Many and were poorly targeted, failing those they were meant of those being supported by the Work programme are to help the most. in receipt of benefit for nine or 12 months before joining and are then supported over a minimum of two From 1 April 2013 new local provision began, developed years. by upper tier local authorities in England and under arrangements made by the Scottish and Welsh The figures published today show the Work programme Governments. I would like to take this opportunity to has significantly improved. A total of 132,000 jobseekers thank local authorities and the Scottish and Welsh have escaped long-term unemployment and found lasting Governments for the way in which they have engaged work—normally at least six months (three months or with the Department to deliver this significant change more for the hardest to help). This compares to 9,000 for and to ensure help is now being targeted at those most the period up to the end of March 2012—a significant in need. improvement. The “Social Fund White Paper Account 2012-13” The figures also highlight more people are getting will also be laid in Parliament today. This publication into work within a year of joining the Work programme provides an audited account of the social fund’s receipts . The UK Statistics Authority has said that it does not and payments and notes on key balances. regard the calculation by commentators that 3.5% of people got into work in the first year of the scheme as This year, following nine years of qualification, the the most relevant figure on which to assess performance. Comptroller and Auditor General is satisfied that It says that performance is better measured by counting the social fund is making award decisions materially in how many people referred to the Work programme get accordance with Parliament’s intentions and has not into sustained work in their first year on the scheme on qualified his opinion on the regularity of social fund this measure, while just 8.5% of those who started the awards. The National Audit Office has tested samples Work programme in June 2011 completed at least six of awards during the year and estimated the value of months of work in their first year, this success rate has most likely error to be just 0.68%. This is a significant increased dramatically to 13.4% for more recent recruits achievement for the Department and is the culmination who joined in March 2013. of focused work over a number of years. Compared to many employment schemes under previous The social fund commissioner’s report on the standard Governments, the programme targets the hardest to of social fund inspectors’ decisions was published on help into work, such as those claiming employment and 24 June. support allowance. Some people have been out of work All three of these documents will be available later for more than 10 or 15 years, so it will take time to help today at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications. them back. But the Work programme is offering them more support than previous employment schemes, and Triennial Reviews 6,000 of the harder to help have now found lasting work. We expect providers to deliver improving results as they share best practice. The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions Although many providers are now meeting their (Steve Webb): Triennial reviews of non-departmental contracted levels for helping jobseeker’s allowance claimants, public bodies are part of the Government’s commitment some are lagging behind. The Department intends to to ensuring accountability in public life. Later today I refer more claimants to better performing providers. We will launch a review of the Pensions Regulator, the will be implementing market share shift in at least Pensions Advisory Service, the pensions ombudsman 16 instances. Implementation of these shifts will begin and the pension protection fund ombudsman. This in August.

325W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 326W Written Answers to Railway Stations Q17. Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of Questions State for Transport what progress he is making on his plans to fund new railway stations. [161782] Thursday 27 June 2013 Mr Simon Burns: Funding from the new stations fund has been awarded to four stations in England and Wales (Ilkeston, Pye Corner, Lea Bridge and Newcourt), TRANSPORT plus a further station at Kenilworth which the Secretary of State for Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member A14 for Derbyshire Dales (Mr McLoughlin), is minded to fund subject to its integration into the programme of wider improvement works in the area. Q10. Mr Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what progress is being made on the widening In addition, local authorities can also fund new stations of the A14 around Kettering. [161773] using funding from other sources as a contribution.

Stephen Hammond: A design and build contract was A1 awarded to Bam Nuttall/Morgan Sindall JV on 20 June 2013. Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Their tendered programme indicates a start of works Transport what plans he has to upgrade the A1 North in late 2013 with works completed by spring 2015. of Tyne and Wear. [161348] During the initial phase of the contract the contractor will complete the detailed design before works can start Stephen Hammond: I refer the right hon. Member to later in the year. the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the right hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey Bus Services (Danny Alexander), oral statement to the House today in relation to Government’s future capital expenditure Q13. Dan Rogerson: To ask the Secretary of State for for roads. Transport what steps his Department is taking to protect local bus services. [161776] Motorways: Driving Offences Norman Baker: I am very conscious of the vital role that buses play in supporting local communities. They Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport are the backbone of our public transport system and what estimate he has made of the number of accidents crucial to a healthy, growing economy. This is recognised that will potentially be prevented as a result of the by the fact that we were able to protect existing levels of introduction of new penalty notices for misuse of the Government support for buses as part of the spending middle lane of motorways. [161634] decisions announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday. Stephen Hammond: Careless driving takes a number of different forms including misuse of the middle lane Tractor Driving Licences of motorways. Data collected by the police on the contributory factors to road accidents show that in Q14. Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State 2011, 272 deaths had ’careless, reckless or in a hurry’ for Transport what assessment he has made of the recorded as a contributory factor. This may be an licence system for tractor driving. [161778] underestimate as there are other contributory factors (e.g. failing to look properly) that could be included as Stephen Hammond: There have been no assessments careless driving. made of the licence system for tractor driving. Motorways: Speed Limits Public Transport: Disabled Access

Q16. Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Transport what steps he is taking to improve disabled what estimate he has made of the environmental effect access to public transport. [161781] of increasing the speed limit on motorways to 80 mph. [161573] Norman Baker: The Department for Transport published an Accessibility Action Plan in December 2012 which Stephen Hammond: Work on the environmental impact contains a number of commitments to ensure that has not been completed and we would consult on the transport is accessible and safe for everyone to use. This potential impacts before any decision was taken as to sets out how the Department will build on the accessibility whether to proceed with trials. legacy of the Olympic and Paralympic Games. At a time when Government has been clear about the I have also recently announced that the Department need to manage a step change in investment for our intends to retain the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory road network, trials of 80 mph on the network are not a Committee. high priority. 327W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 328W

Network Rail Thameslink Railway Line

George Galloway: To ask the Secretary of State for Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) what Network Rail’s current debt is; Transport what recent progress he has made in drawing [162233] up a management-style contract for the next Thameslink (2) what the annual change in Network Rail’s debt franchise. [162010] level has been over the last three years. [162234] Mr Simon Burns: The management style contract for Mr Simon Burns: The level of Network Rail’s debt is the next Thameslink franchise is currently being developed reported annually by the company in their annual report in close consultation with the pre-qualified bidders. The and accounts which are available on their website at Invitation to Tender is due to be issued in September 2013. www.networkrail.co.uk The relevant figures as reported in those accounts are as follows: HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION Year ending Debt (£ million) 31 March 2013 30,358 Telephone Switchboard 31 March 2012 27,281 31 March 2011 25,049 Q7. Simon Hughes: To ask the hon. Member for Aberdeen North, representing the House of Commons Railways: Shropshire Commission, what assessment he has made of the performance of the parliamentary telephone switchboard. Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for [161800] Transport if he will hold discussions with Network Rail Mr Doran: The switchboard is an outsourced service. on restoring a direct rail link from Shropshire to Capita are the current service provider. Formal monthly London. [161777] service reviews take place between the House and Capita. Mr McLoughlin: I announced to the House 6 December Capita has met its call handling target of answering 2012, Official Report, columns 1018-19, that I would 90% of calls in 10 seconds. The average answer time was welcome direct rail services to Blackpool and Shrewsbury 4.5 seconds. Since the relocation of the service to from London. Virgin Trains has made an application to Southampton, some feedback has been received about Network Rail seeking paths to run those services. misdirected calls and the speed with which requests for diverts are applied. The House is working with Capita Network Rail has assessed Virgins Trains’ application to resolve these issues. for additional Track Access rights on the West Coast mainline and rejected the application for the additional services on the basis that it would be detrimental to Parliamentary Tours performance. This matter is now being considered by the independent Jessica Morden: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) which is responsible Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of for Track Access applications. Commons Commission, what recent discussions the Commission has had on the availability of tours for constituents of the parliamentary estate. [161793] Speed Limits: Driving Offences John Thurso: The Commission’s most recent discussion Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for about the provision of tours was in June 2012 in the Transport how many speed awareness courses were context of the Administration Committee’s report on undertaken in each (a) region and (b) constituent part visitor access and facilities. The report and the Commission’s of the UK in each of the last three years; and what the response were debated in Westminster Hall on 4 September cost of undertaking such a course was in each such 2012. area in each such year. [161338]

Stephen Hammond: The Department does not hold this information. This information would be held by INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY individual police forces and the National Driver Offender STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE Retraining Scheme. Legal Costs Swindon-Kemble Railway Line Sadiq Khan: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, Neil Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Transport what assessment he has made of progress on Parliamentary Standards Authority, how much the the redoubling of the Kemble-Swindon railway. [161804] Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority has spent on external legal advice (a) between 7 May 2010 Mr Simon Burns: The project is on schedule and and 4 September 2012 and (b) since 4 September 2012. ready for completion in 2014. [158705] 329W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 330W

Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. Letter from Andrew McDonald, 24 June 2013: Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated 25 June 2013: As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking for figures relating to legal advice sought by Question asking for information relating to legal advice sought by IPSA. IPSA. The information requested is provided below. It is not possible to separate the costs of legal advice from the costs of other The figures requested are provided in the table below. It is not services provided by lawyers. Therefore the figures produced possible to separate the costs of legal advice from the costs of below cover expenditure on all services provided by lawyers for other services provided by lawyers. Therefore the figures produced the relevant periods. below cover expenditure on all legal services for the relevant periods. External Legal Services These figures are shown divided by calendar year and by the Expenditure (£) value of invoice paid. The invoices do not separately identify Between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 351,714.40 costs attributable to specific matters and are aggregated with Between 4 September 2012 and 7 June 2013 185,745.07 other costs over varying time periods and so are not directly comparable. Where there were fewer than 20 invoices paid in each year, the values of all invoices paid are shown. Sadiq Khan: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Number Parliamentary Standards Authority, how much the 2010 Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority has Addleshaw Goddard LLP 36,284.00 spent on external legal advice from Queen’s Counsel Addleshaw Goddard LLP 28,605.38 (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 and (b) Treasury Solicitors 24,433.77 [158708] since 4 September 2012. Bird & Bird LLP 18,181.95 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 11,527.46 Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls Treasury Solicitors 10,928.91 within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary Addleshaw Goddard LLP 10,852.72 Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. Treasury Solicitors 8,460.00 Letter from Andrew McDonald, 25 June 2013: Bird & Bird LLP 7,527.88 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 6,358.51 As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question Treasury Solicitors 6,121.95 asking for figures relating to legal advice sought by IPSA. Addleshaw Goddard LLP 6,028.93 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 4,358.66 It is not possible to provide the information requested, as expenditure on Queen’s Counsel is not recorded separately from Monckton Chambers 3,331.11 other legal services. Treasury Solicitors 2,405.23 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 2,331.79 Notary Co UK 17.50 Sadiq Khan: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, what the highest 2011 day rate paid for external legal advice by the Independent Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 7,215.60 Parliamentary Standards Authority since 7 May 2010 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 7,200.00 has been. [158711] Addleshaw Goddard LLP 6,815.52 Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 6,214.80 Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 6,011.88 within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 6,000.00 Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. Addleshaw Goddard LLP 4,500.00 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 4,218.36 Letter from Andrew McDonald, 25 June 2013: Addleshaw Goddard LLP 4,174.80 As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Addleshaw Goddard LLP 2,822.40 Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Addleshaw Goddard LLP 2,050.80 Question asking for figures relating to legal advice sought by Addleshaw Goddard LLP 1,940.40 IPSA. Addleshaw Goddard LLP 1,662.00 It is not possible to provide the information requested as to do Addleshaw Goddard LLP 1,354.20 so would, in conjunction with other information in the public Bird & Bird LLP 1,086.88 domain, breach commercial confidentiality. Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 615.60 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 529.20 Sadiq Khan: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 473.40 representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Trethowans Solicitors 12.00 Parliamentary Standards Authority, what the 20 highest amounts paid for external legal advice by the Independent 2012 Parliamentary Standards Authority in (a) 2010, (b) Addleshaw Goddard LLP 13,902.25 2011 and (c) 2012 were; to whom such payments were Addleshaw Goddard LLP 13,043.40 made; and for what reasons the legal advice was sought. Addleshaw Goddard LLP 12,279.60 [158714] 331W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 332W

Social Enterprises Number

Addleshaw Goddard LLP 10,768.08 Chris White: To ask the Secretary of State for Addleshaw Goddard LLP 9,233.40 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many of his Addleshaw Goddard LLP 9,230.47 Department’s suppliers are social enterprises. [160661] Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 9,220.74 Richard Benyon: Core DEFRA suppliers are not Addleshaw Goddard LLP 8,946.00 required to provide this information. DEFRA does Addleshaw Goddard LLP 6,856.20 have some data on which suppliers are: social enterprises, Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 5,790.00 a charity or a voluntary sector organisation, this is too Addleshaw Goddard LLP 5,401.80 incomplete to provide a reliable response. Addleshaw Goddard LLP 5,331.60 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 4,830.00 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 4,638.60 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 4,561.20 CABINET OFFICE Addleshaw Goddard LLP 4,518.00 Big Society Network Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 4,338.00 Addleshaw Goddard LLP 4,176.00 Mr Thomas: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Addleshaw Goddard LLP 3,574.80 (1) when his Department first informed the Big Lottery Bates, Wells & Braithwaite LLP 2,424.00 Fund that the Big Society Network Foundation’s Get In campaign had been put on hold and its funding had been ended; and if he will make a statement; [161858] LEADER OF THE HOUSE (2) pursuant to the answer of 19 June 2013, Official Report, column 739W, on the Big Society Network, if Grand Committees he will publish the objectives of the Society Network Foundation’s Get In campaign; and what progress had been made against each objective before his Department Mr Dodds: To ask the Leader of the House (1) in took the decision to end support for it; and if he will what locations the (a) Northern Ireland, (b) Scottish make a statement. [161859] and (c) Welsh Grand Committees have met in each session of this Parliament; [161864] Mr Hurd: Cabinet Office did not inform Big Lottery (2) how many meetings there have been of the (a) Fund of its decision to end funding for the Society Northern Ireland, (b) Scottish and (c) Welsh Grand Network Foundation’s Get In Campaign because it is Committees in each session of this Parliament. [161865] not normal practice to inform external organisations of a decision made regarding a grant recipient Mr Lansley: The information is as follows: The Cabinet Office has supplied a copy of the BSN (a) There were two sittings of the Northern Ireland and Sports Leader’s UK quarter 1 monitoring report Grand Committee in session 2010-12, both at Westminster. for the Get In campaign to the House of Common’s The Committee did not sit in session 2012-13, and there Library; this sets out objectives for the Get In campaign have been no sittings so far this session. and progress against these. (b) There have been no sittings of the Scottish Grand Mr Thomas: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Committee so far in this Parliament. Office pursuant to the answer of 17 June 2013, Official (c) There were 11 sittings of the Welsh Grand Committee Report, column 517W, on the third sector, how the in session 2010-12. Ten were held at Westminster; one in £350,000 allocated to the Big Society Network to support Wrexham. There were four sittings of the Welsh Grand his Department in allocating the Big Society Awards Committee in session 2012-13, all at Westminster. There was spent; and if he will make a statement. [161860] have been two sittings of the Welsh Grand Committee so far in the current session, both at Westminster. Mr Hurd: This grant payment was allocated to the Big Society Network (BSN) to support the delivery of aspects of the Big Society Awards process and to promote and support the Big Society agenda. As stated in my ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS answer of 17 June 2013, Official Report, column 517W, this included the design and development of the website: Hunting Act 2004 www.bigsocietyawards.org to raise the profile of the awards and to increase the Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for number of awards announced, as well as to promote Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what representations social action more widely and to support and accelerate he has received regarding potential amendments to the social entrepreneurs and social innovators. Hunting Act 2004 in the last 12 months for which Further details of BSN’s work are on their website: figures are available. [161463] http://www.thebigsociety.co.uk/ Richard Benyon: In the last 12 months DEFRA has Death received a variety of representations both for and against a repeal of the Hunting Act 2004 from Members of Jim Shannon: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Parliament and the public. This includes 114 pieces of Office how many deaths there were in each constituency correspondence from Members of Parliament and the in each month between October 2012 and March 2013. public, according to DEFRA’s correspondence database. [161832] 333W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 334W

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the constituencies in Glasgow. I’ve have also provided this information responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have for local authorities in Scotland and the rest of the UK for asked the authority to reply. comparison purposes. A copy of the tables has been placed in the Library of the House. Letter from Glen Watson, dated June 2013: National and local area estimates for many labour market As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant have been asked to reply to your recent question asking the count are available on the NOMIS website at: Minister for the Cabinet Office how many deaths there were in each constituency in each month between October 2012 and http://www.nomisweb.co.uk March 2013. (161832) The numbers of deaths for parliamentary constituencies are not routinely published, but 2012 data will be available on request after 10 July 2013. Equivalent 2013 data will be available in COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Summer 2014. Provisional figures showing the number of deaths registered Buildings: Energy each month by local authority district are published on the ONS website. The latest figures available are for May 2013: www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob2/monthly-figures-on-deaths- Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities registered-by-area-of-usual-residence--england-and-wales/ and Local Government whether any infraction index.html or derogation proceedings in respect of the UK’s Mobile Phones: Cybercrime implementation of the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive regulations have been commenced by the European Commission; and whether he is aware that Chi Onwurah: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet any such proceedings are likely to be initiated. [160601] Office what recent representations he has received on the cyber security of mobile telephones. [162031] Mr Foster [holding answer 25 June 2013]: My Miss Chloe Smith: Regular discussions take place Department is not currently involved in any formal between Ministers and officials across government as infraction litigation proceedings in respect of the UK’s appropriate to address information security and assurance implementation of the Energy Performance of Buildings requirements and policies for government. In line with Directive. the practice of previous Administrations, details of We have recently received a letter seeking clarification such meetings are not normally disclosed. In addition, on a technical issue of holiday lets in England and officials are in regular contact and have working-level Wales, and we are currently in discussions with the relationships with the telecommunications industry. Commission on this issue, and hope to resolve it in a I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 29 satisfactory manner. January 2013, Official Report, column 693W. Fire Extinguishers Unemployment

John Robertson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Office what the current level of unemployment is in (a) Communities and Local Government what categories each parliamentary constituency in Glasgow, (b) each of buildings have fire sprinklers installed as a mandatory city in Scotland and (c) each city in the rest of the UK. requirement. [160729] [162272] Mr Foster: The provisions of Approved Document B Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the set out which categories of buildings should be fitted responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have with sprinkler systems to satisfy the requirements of asked the authority to reply. building regulations in England. These are: Letter from Glen Watson: Blocks of flats, office buildings, shops and commercial buildings, assembly and recreation buildings, and storage buildings—where As Director General for the Office for National Statistics they exceed 30 metres in height. (ONS), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking the Minister for the Cabinet Office what the current level Shops—where any one storey exceeds 2,000 square metres in of unemployment is in (a) each parliamentary constituency in area. Glasgow, (b) each city in Scotland and (c) each city in the rest of Commercial buildings, assembly and recreation buildings—where the UK (162272). they have more than one storey and any one storey exceeds 2,000 The Office for National Statistics does not produce unemployment square metres in area. statistics for cities. As an alternative we have provided the Industrial buildings—where any one storey exceeds 7,000 square unemployment level and rate for local authorities in Scotland and metres in area. Or where they exceed 18 metres in height, and any the rest of the UK using model based estimates of unemployment, one storey exceeds 2,000 square metres in area. which are only available for local authorities, for January to December 2012, the latest available period. Storage buildings—with only one storey, where that storey exceeds 20,000 square metres in area (or 18 metres in height). Or ONS compiles labour market statistics for other local geographies where they have more than one storey and any one storey exceeds from the Annual Population Survey (APS) following International 20,000 cubic metres in volume or where they exceed 18 metres in Labour Organisation (ILO) definitions. Whilst the APS does height, and any one storey exceeds 4,000 square metres in area. collect data on unemployment, no reliable estimates can be produced for parliamentary constituencies in Glasgow. There are also provisions for the installation of sprinklers As an alternative I have provided the number and percentage in other buildings, such as certain types of dwelling of people aged 16 to 64 who were claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance houses and care homes, which allow greater flexibility in May 2013, the latest available period, for parliamentary in design. 335W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 336W

Floods: Finance costs they incur when responding to a major emergency in their area. The level of funding over time is causally Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for linked to the scale of the flooding. It operates by local Communities and Local Government how much funding authorities retrospectively claiming spending back. has been (a) claimed by and (b) paid out to each local authority under the Bellwin scheme as a result of flooding The following table sets out amounts claimed by local in each year since 2007-08. [161940] authorities and paid by DCLG under the Bellwin scheme for flood related incidents in financial years 2007-08 to Brandon Lewis: Bellwin provides emergency financial date. Payments for the remaining 2012-13 Bellwin claims assistance to local authorities to help them meet uninsurable will be made in July 2013.

Bellwin flood related payments 2007-08 to 2012-13 £ Bellwin claimed Outside scope of scheme Bellwin grant paid

2007-08 22,787,812 5,279,000 17,508,812 2008-09 1,956,316 20,635 1,935,681 2009-10 1,344,666 0 1,344,666 2010-11 1,133,696 244,155 889,541 2011-12 0 0 0 2012-13 (to date) 5,895,788 75,091 688,937 Total 33,118,278 5,618,881 22,367,637 Note: Payments may not necessarily be in the same financial year as the incidents occurred. The amount claimed is net of threshold and grant rate.

Landlords: Licensing formula funding document presented as part of the Local Government Finance Settlement for 2013-14 and Graham Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for is available at: Communities and Local Government if he will consider www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/1314/calcffs.pdf making failure to meet the Housing Health and Safety The formula for the environmental, cultural and Rating System a criterion for allowing selective licensing protective services block covers the calculation of a of landlords. [161050] number of services. Formula grant and Revenue Support Grant are unhypothecated block grants and it is therefore Mr Prisk [holding answer 24 June 2013]: The Housing not possible to set out how much funding is provided Act 2004 permits local authorities, subject to carrying for any particular service. out a consultation, to license all private landlords in a designated area that is suffering from low housing demand Misuse of Drugs Ministerial Group and/or antisocial behaviour. The purpose of selective licensing is to address the adverse, cumulative impact Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for that poor management by some landlords and/or antisocial Communities and Local Government how many times behaviour by some tenants can have in the community. Ministers of his Department have attended the inter- Selective licensing is only concerned with the management ministerial group on drugs since May 2010. [161576] of privately rented dwellings, not the condition of the property. Brandon Lewis: In line with the convention under Notwithstanding, the 2004 Act also introduced the previous Administrations, it is not usual practice to Housing Health and Safety Rating System which is disclose details of Cabinet committee and other inter- designed to assess the presence and severity of a range ministerial discussions. of hazards in the home, such as excess cold, fire and I also refer the hon. Member to the answer given electrical hazards. This allows action to be taken by today by the Minister of State, Home Department, the councils against individual properties which are substandard hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne) to PQ or dangerous. 161582. Local Government Services: Per Capita Costs Working Neighbourhoods Fund Dan Rogerson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (1) what estimate Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for he has made of the effect of population density on the Communities and Local Government how much was cost of delivering local government services; [161170] spent through the Working Neighbourhoods Fund in (2) which specific services in the environmental, each of the principal seaside towns in each year of the cultural and protective services block have given rise to fund’s existence. [161397] additional funding because of the effect of population density in the last five years. [161171] Brandon Lewis: The Working Neighbourhoods Fund ran from 2008-09 to 2010-11. The grant was paid to Brandon Lewis: Population density and sparsity feature local authorities, and not to town or parish councils; within a number of the Relative Needs Formulae used thus there are no figures available for seaside towns. in settlement calculations. Detail of the methodology A table showing the allocations for all local authorities used for Relative Needs Formulae is available in the has been placed in the Library of the House. 337W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 338W

The fund was a time-limited, three-year programme reporting PAYE information in real time. HMRC have that ended as originally scheduled in March 2011. More therefore agreed a transitional relaxation for RTI reporting information can be found in a deposited paper from requirements for smaller employers. February 2011, available in the Library and online at: This relaxation means that employers with fewer http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2011- than 50 employees, who find it difficult to report every 0295/DEP2011-0295.tif payment to employees at the time of payment, may send information to HMRC by the date of their regular World War II: Genocide payroll run, but no later than the end of the tax month in which the payments are made. This extra time will Mark Reckless: To ask the Secretary of State for enable these businesses to adapt their processes so that Communities and Local Government what financial they can comply with the new legislation. support the Government has given to holocaust memorial HMRC has recently announced that it is planning to groups in each year since 1997. [161256] maintain this temporary relaxation for those employers to April 2014. This will avoid employers having to Mr Foster: The UK Holocaust Memorial Day was change their processes during the year. first held in January 2001 and has since been held on 27 January every year. Until 2005, responsibility for delivering Holocaust Memorial Day lay with the Home Office. Tax Allowances: Cultural Heritage Since 2005 Holocaust Memorial Day and related activities have been delivered by the Holocaust Memorial Day Helen Goodman: To ask the Chancellor of the Trust, an independent charity set up by the Government Exchequer (1) how many visitors visited tax exempt to deliver the annual Holocaust Memorial Day heritage assets in each of the last 10 years; [161639] commemoration. The Holocaust Memorial Day Trust (2) whether he records the number of visits by the is the only Holocaust memorial group Government public to each tax exempt heritage asset. [161644] funds. The approximate spend for 2002-04 was £280,000. Mr Gauke: Information about visitor numbers to tax Financial support for the Holocaust Memorial Trust is exempt heritage assets is not available. detailed as follows: HMRC does not record the number of visits by the £ public to each tax exempt heritage asset.

2005-06 500,000 Helen Goodman: To ask the Chancellor of the 2006-07 500,000 Exchequer when the terms of the tax exempt heritage 2007-08 500,000 assets regime were last reviewed. [161642] 2008-09 500,000 2009-10 750,000 Mr Gauke: The Government keeps all tax policies, 2010-11 750,000 reliefs and exemptions under review. Major changes 2011-12 750,000 were made to the provisions in 1998 to extend public 2012-13 750,000 access. Since then minor changes have been made in 2013-14 904,000 2006 and 2008.

Helen Goodman: To ask the Chancellor of the TREASURY Exchequer whether the owners of tax exempt heritage assets are required to loan them to national or local Pay galleries and museums. [161643] Mr Watson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many staff in the private office of the Economic Mr Gauke: There is no specific requirement for owners Secretary to the Treasury received a performance-related of tax exempt heritage assets to loan them to galleries and museums. However, depending on the nature of the bonus in the last two financial years. [162013] asset and the terms of the undertakings they agree to, Sajid Javid: Fewer than five staff have received owners may choose to have them on display in galleries performance bonuses in the last two financial years. We or museums to fulfil the public access requirement and do not give numbers where they are fewer than five as meet the conditions to qualify for the tax exemption. this could risk identifying individuals. Helen Goodman: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer PAYE what recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the tax exempt heritage assets as a contribution to Stephen Timms: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer public enjoyment of heritage assets. [161645] for how long he plans to permit businesses with fewer than 50 employees to submit PAYE information monthly rather than in real time; and if he will make a statement. Mr Gauke: The tax exemption scheme for heritage [161936] assets preserves and protects over 70,000 national heritage items and collections, which may have otherwise been Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) sold or taken out of the UK, for the benefit of the recognise that some small employers who pay employees public. It also ensures that the public have access to weekly, or more frequently, but currently only process heritage assets in private ownership which they would their payroll monthly may need longer to adapt to otherwise not see. 339W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 340W

Helen Goodman: To ask the Chancellor of the Number of completed Number of cases of non- Exchequer what his estimate is of the annual cost of Calendar year investigations compliance offering the tax exemption for heritage assets. [161863] 2010 1— 1— 2011 (from 30 Mr Gauke: An estimate of the annual cost of offering August 2011) the inheritance tax exemption for heritage assets for 2012 34 9 2011-12 and 2012-13 is published in the HM Revenue 2013 15 4 and Customs Minor Tax Expenditures and structural 1 Unavailable reliefs table, available on the HMRC website at: The number of complaints received from the workers http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/expenditures/table-b1.pdf described in each of the years requested is in the following The estate duty exemption for heritage assets is estimated table: to currently have a negligible cost for the Exchequer (ie less than £3 million per year). Calendar year Number of worker complaints The Exchequer cost of the capital gains tax exemption 2010 1— for heritage assets is not known. 2011 (from August 2011) 20 2012 50 2013 37 Taxation: Business 1 Unavailable

Jim Shannon: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he is taking to ensure that large HEALTH UK companies pay correct amounts of tax. [161900] Accident and Emergency Departments: Greater London Mr Gauke: The Government is fully committed to supporting the international efforts to address Base Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS) by multinational Health what recent discussions he has had with the enterprises, through the OECD and G20. University College Hospital, Royal Free, The Whittington, Barnet General, North Middlesex and Chase Farm on At the recent summit in Lough Erne, the G8 leaders the future plans for accident and emergency and hospital welcomed the OECD work on addressing BEPS and care; and if he will make a statement. [161705] emphasised the importance of the OECD developing an ambitious and comprehensive action plan for Anna Soubry: Health Ministers have not held recent presentation to the G20 in July. discussions with any of the named trusts. Planning for the future provision of accident and emergency and other hospital care is a matter for the trusts themselves, Work Experience working closely with local commissioners of health care services. Stella Creasy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Alcoholic Drinks and Drugs: Rehabilitation (1) how much was secured in unpaid wages for people identifying as interns, volunteers or work experience in (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12; [162028] Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he is taking to ensure that health and wellbeing (2) how many cases HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) strategies addressing alcohol and drugs treatment are has investigated for the non-payment of the national being developed by local authorities. [161944] minimum wage in relation to people identifying as interns, volunteers or work experience workers in (a) Norman Lamb: The Health and Social Care Act 2012 2010, (b) 2011, (c) 2012 and (d) 2013; and how many places a duty on local authorities and each of its instances of non-compliance HMRC has discovered partner clinical commissioning group to undertake Joint through such investigations in each such year; [162029] Strategic Needs Assessments (JSNAs), and prepare Joint (3) how many complaints HM Revenue and Customs Health and Wellbeing Strategies (JHWSs) through health has received regarding non-payment of the national and wellbeing boards. minimum wage from people identifying as interns, JSNAs and JHWSs are local strategic planning processes, volunteers or work experience workers in (a) 2010, (b) we therefore do not monitor them centrally in the 2011, (c) 2012 and (d) 2013. [162030] Department. JSNAs are the means by which the current and future health and well-being needs of the local Mr Gauke: HMRC does not have figures relating to population, will be determined through health and wellbeing the period before August 2011 as it did not specifically boards. This will then be used to develop locally agreed collect information on whether workers making complaints priorities in JHWSs, which will underpin local about non-payment of the minimum wage were interns, commissioning plans. In this way, health and wellbeing volunteers or work experience workers before then. Of boards will plan local services on the basis of identified the complaints received between August 2011 and the needs. JSNAs will therefore need to cover the health end of that financial year, three cases were completed and care needs of the whole local population and may but no arrears were identified in those cases. well include drug and alcohol treatment. However, it The number of investigations completed and the would not be appropriate for the Department to highlight number of non-compliant employers identified by HMRC, any care group or area of need over another as this in these for the years requested, is in the following table: would risk undermining the purpose of JSNAs and 341W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 342W

JHWSs being objective, comprehensive and most (Mr Hunt), met the Mayor of London on 27 March importantly—locally-owned processes of developing 2013. Their discussion covered a number of health evidence based priorities for commissioning. issues relating to London. Ambulance Services: Corby Heart Diseases Andy Sawford: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make an assessment of the consequences Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for of closing Corby ambulance station on the ability of Health what steps he is taking to reduce deaths from the ambulance trust to meet the eight and 19 minute heart disease; and if he will make funding available to targets. [161552] Northern Ireland to improve cardiovascular outcomes. [161842] Anna Soubry: The East Midlands Ambulance Service National Health Service Trust consulted on the Being Anna Soubry: Health is a devolved matter, and funding the Best proposals between September and December to improve cardiovascular disease (CVD) outcomes in 2012. Northern Ireland is a matter for the Northern Ireland Assembly. Lincolnshire county council referred those proposals to the Secretary of State for Health, my right hon. Reducing mortality and improving outcomes for people Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Mr Hunt), with heart disease and other CVDs in England is a key on 25 March 2013 who subsequently requested initial priority for this Government. The indicator ’Under 75 advice from the Independent Reconfiguration Panel. mortality fate from all cardiovascular diseases’ is included in both the Public Health and NHS Outcome Frameworks That advice is due to be submitted to the Secretary of and the Clinical Commissioning Group Outcomes Indicator State no later than 28 June 2013. Set. NHS England works to improve the quality of Bounty Services NHS services and is held to account through the Mandate. In March 2013 we published the ‘CVD Outcomes Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Strategy’. The strategy sets out key actions for Health what assessment he has made of recent reports commissioners and providers to improve outcomes in that Bounty paid NHS trusts to allow salespeople CVD. access to maternity wards. [161947] Hospitals Anna Soubry: It is for individual trusts to make decisions about representatives from Bounty or any Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for other organisation being allowed on maternity wards. Health what provision is made available to accommodate The Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. families that choose to stay beside an ill family member Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North whilst in extended care in hospital. [161631] Ipswich (Dr Poulter), has written to all national health service trusts, NHS foundation trusts and heads of Anna Soubry: The provision made to accommodate midwifery asking them to review their practices for families that choose to stay beside an ill family member allowing representatives from private companies on while in extended care in hospital is a matter for the maternity wards and to assure themselves that they are providing health care organisation to determine. maintaining women’s dignity and respect shortly after The Department publishes guidance on the design of the birth of a baby when they can be tired and vulnerable. hospitals in support of the regard national health service Diabetes: Children organisations have to have to the NHS Constitution’s pledge of providing services from a: Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health ‘clean and safe environment that is fit for purpose, based on which bodies in the NHS have responsibility for funding national best practice.’ the replacement of out-of-warranty insulin pumps for The design guidance for in-patient care recognises paediatric patients with diabetes. [162009] that ’relatives and visitors are encouraged to be more involved in patient care and support’ (‘Health Building Anna Soubry: NHS England is responsible for Note 04-01: Adult in-patient facilities, Department of commissioning specialist endocrinology and diabetes Health, 2009’) and ‘Health Building Note 00-03: Clinical services for children and young people as part of its and clinical support spaces’ (Department of Health, specialised services. This service includes the provision 2013) gives spatial guidance on ‘receiving visitors’ at the of insulin pumps and replacement pumps where clinically bedside and ’ space for a relative’s overnight stay bed’. appropriate. Guidance for the design of more specialised in-patient departments—such as children and young people and Health Services: Greater London intensive care facilities—similarly addresses accommodating the needs of visitor and relatives. Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Copies of the guidance have been placed in the Health what recent discussions he has had with the Library and are available at: Mayor of London on his views on London’s future health needs. [161704] www.gov.uk/government/publications/adult-in-patient-facilities and; Anna Soubry: The Secretary of State for Health, my www.gov.uk/government/publications/design-and-layout-of- right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey generic-clinical-and-clinical-support-spaces 343W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 344W

Hospitals: Parking (2) for what reason it was proposed to second Jackie Holt from University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay Debbie Abrahams: To ask the Secretary of State for NHS Trust to Warrington and Halton NHS Trust; and Health what assessment he has made of the number of if he will make a statement. [162012] NHS trusts who hold contracts with car parking management companies for hospital car parks. [161941] Anna Soubry: The decision to second an employee to another organisation is a local employment matter and Anna Soubry: The information requested is not collected is taken by the employer concerned. Sourcing and approving centrally by the Department. any particular secondment are operational matters for National health service organisations are responsible the trusts involved. locally for decisions on the management of car parking, University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay is a Foundation including whether it is provided in-house or outsourced. Trust and as such the Department has no involvement Hospitals: Trafford in employment decisions of this nature. We are advised no consultations were held with Monitor, Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Health NHS England or the Care Quality Commission on the pursuant to the answer of 10 June 2013, Official Report, decision to request a secondment to the Warrington column 160W, on hospitals: Trafford, if he will place and Halton Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust. the initial advice which he has received from the Independent We have written to John Cowdall, chair of the University Reconfiguration Panel in the Library. [162037] Hospitals of Morecambe Bay NHS Foundation Trust informing him of the hon. Member’s inquiry. He will Anna Soubry: The Secretary of State for Health, my reply shortly and a copy of the letter will be placed in right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey the Library. (Mr Hunt), is currently considering the initial advice from the Independent Reconfiguration Panel concerning Ketamine a New Health Deal for Trafford, and will make his decision in due course. Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what estimate his Department had made of the Independent Midwives UK number of ketamine-related hospital admissions in each of the last five years in (a) Birmingham, (b) the Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health West Midlands and (c) the UK. [161945] what steps he is taking to address the concerns raised by representatives of Independent Midwives UK in their Anna Soubry: Data on ketamine-related hospital meeting with his Department in May 2013. [162016] admissions is not collected centrally. This is because the Anna Soubry: Independent Midwives UK (IM UK) International Classification of Diseases, used to collect met the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. data on hospital admissions, does not separately identify Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North drug poisoning by ketamine. Ipswich (Dr Poulter), to discuss their concerns about Mental Health Services implementation of the European Directive on Patients’ Rights in Cross Border Healthcare which requires all. Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for health professionals to have indemnity or insurance in Health whether he plans to require mental health services order to practise. In particular they were concerned that to collect data on children whose parents or carers have it is difficult for independent midwives who are practising mental health difficulties. [161946] in a self-employed capacity to obtain appropriate cover. As part of the public consultation on this matter Norman Lamb: The Department is considering how people were asked to identify barriers to obtaining best to meet the recommendations of the recent report insurance and officials are now analysing the responses by Ofsted and the Care Quality Commission which to the consultation. Departmental officials and NHS recommended collecting information on children whose England are meeting with IM UK in early July to parents or carers have mental health difficulties. discuss what commissioning arrangements could be used by IM UK members to support their practice. We Misuse of Drugs Ministerial Group are in continuing dialogue with IM UK to understand the barriers to their on-going practise with particular Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for attention to alternative operating models to enable them Health how many times Ministers of his Department to find the best solution. have attended the inter-ministerial group on drugs since May 2010. [161580] Jackie Holt Anna Soubry: The Department’s Ministers regularly Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health attend the Inter-Ministerial Group on Drugs. As was (1) on what date and by whom the decision was taken to the case with previous Administrations, it is not the request the secondment of Jackie Holt from University Government’s practice to publish details of such meetings. Hospitals of Morecambe Bay NHS Trust to Warrington and Halton NHS Trust; and what consultation on this NHS: Drugs decision was undertaken with (a) Monitor, (b) the Care Quality Commission, (c) the relevant local area Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for team, (d) NHS England and (e) his Department; and Health how much has been spent by NHS trusts in what involvement each such body had in this decision; London on (a) anti-retroviral HIV drugs and (b) [162011] anti-cancer drugs in each of the last five years. [161942] 345W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 346W

Norman Lamb: Expenditure by national health service affected by mental illness for the coming year and also trusts in London, as defined by the former London that the NHS should ensure momentum is maintained strategic health authority (SHA), is provided for both in improving care and outcomes for people with learning anti-retroviral HIV medicines and anti-cancer medicines. disabilities. London generally has a larger proportion of its medicines The Mandate to the NHS expects NHS England to costs going through hospitals than other SHAs as patients ensure that clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) work from areas surrounding London are likely to travel to with local authorities to ensure that vulnerable people, London hospitals for some treatments. particularly those with learning disabilities and autism, receive safe, appropriate, high quality care. £000 The Equality Act 2010 requires NHS bodies, and Secondary care Drug type Year Primary care cost1 cost2 those carrying out public functions on their behalf, to make reasonable adjustments for disabled people which Anti- 2008 4321.0 175,398.3 may include providing more appropriate services. This retroviral HIV3 statutory duty aims to ensure that a disabled person can 2009 502.4 191,720.7 use a service as close as reasonably possible to the standard usually offered to non-disabled people. NHS 2010 642.0 206,752.9 bodies must think in advance and on an on-going basis 2011 555.5 214,542.6 about what disabled people with a range of impairments 2012 539.4 215,484.2 that use their services might reasonably need. The Department is currently in discussions with its Anti- 2008 417,299.8 112,677.5 partners about publishing further guidance on making cancer5 reasonable adjustments in health care settings. 2009 23,486.3 131,052.7 2010 22,461.9 147,571.4 NHS: Negligence 2011 20,958.7 157,944.3 2012 613,017.2 171,445.4 Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 Net ingredient cost. Health what assessment he has made of the 2 Cost of medicines at NHS list price and not necessarily the price paid. effectiveness of local authorities dealing with instances 3 As classified within British National Formulary (BNF) section 5.3.1 ‘HIV infection’. of medical negligence against disabled people. [161600] 4 Information for 2008 primary care costs is only available for May-December 2008. 5 As classified within BNF section 8.1 ‘Cytotoxic drugs’, paragraph 8.2.3 Anna Soubry: No assessment has been made of the ‘Anti-lymphocyte monoclonal antibodies’, paragraph 8.2.4 ‘Other effectiveness of local authorities in dealing with instances immunomodulating drugs’ (Aldesleukin, Bacillus Calmette-Guerin (B.C.G.), of medical negligence against disabled people. Lenalidomide and Thalidomide (Immunomodulating) only), section 8.3 ‘Sex hormones and hormone antagonists in malignant disease’. 6 The main reason for the lower cost is the large reduction in the cost per item NHS: Procurement price for three drugs, as lower-cost generic formulations became available (Anastrozole, Exemestane and Letrozole). These are mainly used in primary care; therefore there was not the comparable reduction in secondary care costs. Sources: Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for 1. Prescribing Analysis and CosT tool (PACT) system. The Health and Social Health what contracts for outsourced NHS (a) patient, Care Information Centre, Prescribing and Primary Care Services. (b) administrative, (c) IT and (d) other services have 2. IMS data. Hospital Pharmacy Audit. Some supplies through homecare providers may not be captured, therefore cost estimates may be under-stated. been ended early in the last five years; whether he makes a routine assessment of the (i) adequacy and (ii) NHS: Equality transparency of foundation trust procurement where contracts to outsource services are prematurely ended; and if he will make a statement. [161515] Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he is taking to ensure that the provision of medical care is equal for those with physical and Anna Soubry: Information on the management and mental disabilities. [161572] termination of contracts at individual national health service trusts and NHS foundation trusts is not held Norman Lamb: The Mandate to the national health centrally. The Department does not generally hold service expects NHS England to ensure that mental information centrally about NHS contracts because it is health and physical health are given equal priority. By local NHS bodies themselves which are the procuring March 2015, we expect the NHS to demonstrate measurable authorities and are accountable and responsible for progress towards achieving true parity of esteem, where decisions concerning the performance of the contract everyone who needs it has timely access to evidence-based and the contractor. services. NHS foundation trusts are accountable to Monitor The NHS Outcomes Framework 2013-14 sets out the for complying with their duty to exercise functions outcomes and corresponding indicators that will be effectively, efficiently and economically. used to hold NHS England to account for the outcomes it delivers through commissioning health services. Reducing Whittington Hospital NHS Trust premature death in people with serious mental illness and people with a learning disability are identified as Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for improvement areas. Health what his estimate is of the number of job losses The NHS Operating Framework for 2013-14 specifically proposed as part of the Whittington NHS Trust policy talks about a focus on the physical health care of people of applying for Foundation Trust status. [161703] 347W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 348W

Anna Soubry: The NHS Trust Development Authority Gregory Barker: 795 Green Deal advisers have now has advised the Department that there are no plans for completed their training with support from DECC funding. significant overall reduction in Whittington Health NHS A maximum of 47 advisers are due to complete their Trust’s work force. training by 31 July 2013. All 751 installer operatives are due to have completed their training by the end of 2013. Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health on what date he expects the Whittington Health Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Trust to achieve Foundation Trust status. [161706] Energy and Climate Change with reference to the answer of 29 February 2013, Official Report, column 308W, on Anna Soubry: The NHS Trust Development Authority the Green Deal scheme, what discussions his Department has advised the Department that achieving foundation has had with officials at the Department for Communities trust status will come as a result of Whittington Health and Local Government on preparations in the private NHS Trust demonstrating that it is able to deliver high rental sector for the 2018 deadline. [162008] quality, sustainable services for its patients. Gregory Barker: There are ongoing discussions with the Department for Communities and Local Government ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE (DCLG) to prepare the private rental sector for the 2018 deadline. Working groups are being held between Climate Change February and summer 2013 to discuss the introduction of the regulations in 2018. Working group members Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for include DCLG and a range of other key industry Energy and Climate Change what steps the Government stakeholders. is taking to help negotiate a new international agreement on climate change by 2015; and if he will make a Sizewell B Power Station statement. [162052] Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Gregory Barker: The Government is strongly committed and Climate Change what reports he has received from to securing by 2015, an ambitious legally, binding global the Office for Nuclear Regulation on its special risk climate change agreement covering all countries, to assessment of the pressure vessel of the Sizewell B come into force from 2020. In order to achieve this we pressurised water reactor conducted following the serious will continue to work with our partners in the European flaws found in two Belgian PWR pressure vessels at Union, and across the world, through the United Nations Doel 3 and Thiange 2. [161649] Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and other relevant multilateral fora. Michael Fallon: In light of the discovery of defects at This year, we have already made good progress in Doel 3 power station in Belgium, the Office for Nuclear recent negotiations in Bonn, where all countries held Regulation (ONR) provided a brief, in August 2012, positive discussions about the nature of emissions reductions alerting the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate commitments for all and what other elements will form Change to the situation and outlining that further the scope, structure and design of the new agreement in investigation was needed. 2015.These discussions will continue at the next Conference Subsequently, in April 2013, a full assessment report of the Parties to the UNFCCC in Warsaw, in November reviewing the manufacturing records and existing safety this year. case at Sizewell B was published on the ONR website. ONR judge that the validity of the reactor pressure Energy vessel safety case for Sizewell B is not affected by the recent observation of flaws at Doel 3 and Tihange 2 in Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Belgium. Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of 6 June 2013, Official Report, column 1246W, on energy, ONR’s position on Sizewell B is given in the assessment whether the threshold at which energy suppliers are report published on ONR’s website. required to participate in social and environmental Social Enterprises programmes will be reviewed in 2013-14. [161971]

Michael Fallon: The Government continues to monitor Chris White: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy the impact of the customer number threshold at which and Climate Change how many of his Department’s suppliers are required to participate in social and suppliers are social enterprises. [161324] environmental programmes. We have no specific plans to change it, but continue to welcome all views and Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and evidence. Climate Change does not hold this information in its accounting systems, and to obtain this information Green Deal Scheme would incur disproportionate costs.

Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for World War II: Medals Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of 17 June 2013, Official Report, column 460W, on the Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Green Deal scheme, what estimate he has made of how and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of 13 June many Green Deal advisers and installer operatives will 2013, Official Report, column 415W, according to what have completed their training by the end of 2013. criteria applicants for the Bevin Boys Veterans Badge [162007] were assessed. [162038] 349W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 350W

Michael Fallon: Unlike those called up to serve in the Forced marriage armed forces, who were paid by the Crown, the Bevan Out of court disposals All pre charge decisions Boys were employed by the individual mining companies 2010-11 0 46 and as such there is no central record of their service. 2011-12 0 51 Therefore, in order to meet the criteria for the Bevan 2012-13 0 59 Boys Badge individuals are asked to complete an application form and confirm that they were called up or volunteered Homophobic/Transphobic under the scheme between 1943 and 1948 and were aged Out of court disposals All pre charge decisions between 18 and 25 years of age at that time. In the 2007-08 49 1,219 majority of cases they would have undertaken a period 2008-09 42 1,090 of training at a number of specified training pits and 2009-10 41 1,373 information about that is therefore also sought. 2010-11 31 1,384 2011-12 26 1,368 2012-13 16 1,107

ATTORNEY-GENERAL Honour crime Alternatives to Prosecution Out of court disposals All pre charge decisions 2007-08 0 106 Emily Thornberry: To ask the Attorney-General how 2008-09 2 127 many out-of-court disposals were recommended by the 2009-10 0 209 Crown Prosecution Service for offences of (a) child 2010-11 0 288 abuse, (b) crimes against an older person, (c) forced 2011-12 0 262 marriage, (d) homophobic and transphobic hate crimes, 2012-13 2 230 (e) honour crimes, (f) racist hate crime and (g) religious hate crime in (i) 2012-13 and (ii) each of the previous Racist hate crime Out of court disposals All pre charge decisions five years. [159759] 2007-08 311 11,215 The Solicitor-General: The Crown Prosecution Service 2008-09 258 10,730 (CPS) records the number of cases referred for pre-charge 2009-10 283 11,484 advice and where a decision was made to either, issue a 2010-11 241 11,949 simple caution, conditional caution, reprimand or final 2011-12 207 11,499 warning. 2012-13 164 10,052

The CPS identifies cases involving the offences in Religious hate crime question by way of a monitoring ’flag’. The figures in Out of court disposals All pre charge decisions the following table show the decisions made at the pre-charge stage where a flag was applied. The data 2007-08 12 281 does not capture whether the decision to issue a caution 2008-09 8 351 or other out of court disposal was related to the flagged 2009-10 6 316 offence or allegation or other criminality evident on the 2010-11 3 411 file following a decision that there should be no further 2011-12 5 419 action in respect of the substantive offence. The case 2012-13 3 297 would remain flagged even after such a decision. Child abuse flagged Out of court disposals All pre charge decisions Animal Welfare: Prosecutions

2007-08 378 11,542 2008-09 320 11,094 Karl McCartney: To ask the Attorney-General how 2009-10 294 12,688 many prosecutions for offences of cruelty to animals 2010-11 332 13,018 were brought by (a) the Crown Prosecution Service 2011-12 231 11,613 and (b) the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty 2012-13 190 9,381 to Animals in the five years prior to the amendment of paragraph 96 of the Adult Court Bench Book in Crimes against an older person November/December 2010 and in each year since. Out of court disposals All pre charge decisions [161571] 2007-081 —— 2008-09 25 1,494 The Solicitor-General: The Crown Prosecution Service 2009-10 28 2,194 (CPS) records identify the number of offences in which 2010-11 30 2,978 a prosecution commenced and reached a first hearing in 2011-12 34 2,989 magistrates courts, rather than the number of defendants 2012-13 18 2,839 prosecuted, as individual defendants may have been 1 Not recorded prior to 2008-09. Forced marriage charged with more than one offence. The number of Out of court disposals All pre charge decisions offences of cruelty to animals prosecuted by the CPS since 2006 is provided in a table which has been deposited 2007-08 0 15 in the Library of the House. 2008-09 2 18 The CPS does not record details of private prosecutions 2009-10 4 69 that are not referred to it. 351W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 352W

Fraud: Prosecutions The CPS has now received the HMCPSI report and has already made clear that it intends to publish it David Simpson: To ask the Attorney-General how shortly. This would be alongside the report by the IPCC. many corporate prosecutions the Serious Fraud Office undertook in (a) 2012-13 and (b) each of the five RSPCA preceding years. [161922] Karl McCartney: To ask the Attorney-General how The Solicitor-General: I refer the hon. Member to the many claims for trespass and wrongful detention of answer I gave to the hon. Member for Islington South property have been brought against the RSPCA since and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), on 18 June 2013, 2010. [161615] Official Report, columns 602-03W. The Solicitor-General: The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) does not maintain a central record of the number Offences Against Children: Internet of prosecutions brought in criminal proceedings against a particular organisation. This information could be David Simpson: To ask the Attorney-General on how obtained by consulting individual files only at a many occasions the Crown Prosecution Service has disproportionate cost. recommended out-of-court disposal for cases of the downloading and viewing of indecent images of children in each of the last five years. [161920] DEFENCE The Solicitor-General: No central record is maintained of the number of out-of-court disposals recommended Afghanistan in cases involving indecent images of children. This information could be obtained only by examining files, Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for which would incur a disproportionate cost. Defence if he will estimate the cost of moving the headquarters of British forces from Lashkar Gah to Police: Wales Camp Bastion. [160993]

Emily Thornberry: To ask the Attorney-General (1) if Mr Robathan: The rough order of magnitude for the he will instruct the Director of Public Prosecutions to move is estimated to be £1.9 million. publish in full the report by HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate into the collapse of prosecutions Defence: Expenditure of alleged police corruption surrounding the investigation into the murder of Lynette White in 1988; [161986] Peter Luff: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (2) whether the report by HM Crown Prosecution what proportion of gross domestic product he estimates Service Inspectorate into the collapse of prosecutions will be spent on defence in (a) 2013-14, (b) 2014-15 of alleged police corruption surrounding the investigation and (c) 2015-16. [161854] into the murder of Lynette White in 1988 is critical of the Director of Public Prosecutions; [161987] Mr Philip Hammond: The UK will meet NATO’s target of spending 2% of GDP on defence for the (3) how many of the lawyers criticised in the report duration of this Parliament and, as announced at the by HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate into spending round, in financial year 2015-16. the collapse of prosecutions of alleged police corruption surrounding the investigation into the murder of Lynette White in 1988 are still employed by Iraq the Crown Prosecution Service; [161988] (4) whether the Crown Prosecution Service intends to Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence make public all names of lawyers criticised in the report if he will make representations to the World Health by HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate into Organisation for the immediate publication of its the collapse of prosecutions of alleged police corruption report into the health effects of the Iraq war. [161758] surrounding the investigation into the murder of Lynette White in 1988. [161989] Mr Robathan: No.

The Solicitor-General: In January 2012, the DPP initiated a review of the circumstances which led to the discontinuance of the trial of eight former police officers WALES accused of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice in South Wales (R v. Mouncher and others). As part of Official Engagements that review, Her Majesty’s Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate, an independent statutory body, was asked Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales to consider the way in which the prosecution team if he will list his official engagements for (a) 21 June conducted the disclosure exercise in this case. 2013, (b) 22 June 2013 and (c) 23 June 2013. [162179] Simultaneously, South Wales Police referred their part in this matter to the Independent Police Complaints Mr David Jones: I had no official engagements on Commission. these dates. 353W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 354W

HOME DEPARTMENT Mr Vaizey: The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Counter-terrorism Basingstoke (Maria Miller), and Ministers hold regular meetings with Ministers from the Department for Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Communities and Local Government. It is for local Home Department how much funding her Department authorities in concert with their communities to make has provided to the National Union of Students to the funding decisions that they feel are most appropriate implement the Prevent strategy. [161589] for their area. Mr Willetts: I have been asked to reply on behalf of Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Media and Sport what discussions she has had with (a) The National Union of Students received funding of the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth £115,000 in 2012-13 and will receive £160,000 in 2013-14 Affairs, (b) the British Council and (c) UK Trade and to take a clear leadership role in delivering its responsibilities Investment on the arts and creative industries; and if of supporting students’ unions to: she will make a statement. [162035] Understand the risks posed by some external speakers and how to mitigate against these risks; Mr Vaizey: I have regular discussions with the Secretary Understand their responsibilities in relation to the Prevent of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my agenda and charities legislation; right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) Respond to tensions between different student faith groups; (Mr Hague), the British Council and UK Trade and Support student faith groups to negotiate for improved services Investment. and gain acknowledgement from their institutions of their specific Arts: Curriculum needs (particularly in relation to changing equality legislation); and Increase interaction, understanding and learning amongst students Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, and staff about the role of religion and belief in students’ lives. Media and Sport what discussions she has had with the This includes work to continue to roll out the Hate Secretary of State for Education on arts and creativity Speech Guidance (increase their capacity to manage the in the curriculum; and if she will make a statement. risks associated with external speakers) and develop the [162034] work that supports this including working to reduce discrimination and harassment; sharing best practice; Mr Vaizey: The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and increasing knowledge and understanding of the and Sport, my right hon. Friend the Member for needs of students of faith, as well as increasing inter Basingstoke (Maria Miller), and Ministers hold regular faith engagement. meetings with Ministers from the Department for Education. I jointly Chair, with the Under-Secretary of Misuse of Drugs Ministerial Group State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), a regular meeting Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the on Cultural Education, and DCMS and DFE officials Home Department how many times the inter-ministerial have met frequently in the last year to discuss cultural group on drugs has met since May 2010; how many education. Both Departments are working closely together times more than four Ministers have been present; and to ensure that we provide a high quality cultural education how many times the agenda has included (a) drugs for every child. education, (b) drug prevention, (c) the role of Public Health England, (d) new psychoactive substances and (e) co-operation between criminal justice and health bodies. [161582] EDUCATION Mr Jeremy Browne: Further to the answer given on 9 Class Sizes July 2012, Official Report, columns 82-83W,I can confirm that the Inter-Ministerial Group on Drugs met on the Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Education following occasions: how many five to seven year olds were in classes of 12 November 2012 more than 30 pupils in January (a) 2011, (b) 2012 and 10 January 2013 (c) 2013; and if he will make a statement. [161857] 30 April 2013 Mr Laws: Information on infant class sizes (typically As was the case with previous Administrations, it is covering pupils who become five to seven during the not the Government’s practice to publish details, including academic year) was published in table 6a of the publication agenda items, of such meetings. “Schools, pupils and their characteristics, January 2013”1. The School Standards and Framework Act 1998 limits the size of an infant class to 30 pupils per school CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT teacher. Additional children may be admitted in exceptional Arts circumstances—for example, looked after children or children of UK service personnel. Classes often fall Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for back naturally to 30 over a year or two. We are spending Culture, Media and Sport what discussions she has had £5 billion by 2015 on creating new school places, more with the Secretary of State for Communities and Local than double the amount spent by the last government in Government on arts in the regions; and if she will make an equivalent time frame. This will help reduce the a statement. [161850] pressure on infant classes. 355W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 356W

We have also opened 81 free schools and approved The Department has produced a ’one-off’ parental some 200 more—providing 130,000 extra places in total consent form, which covers all activities outside the once full. normal school day. The form will only need to be signed 1 Available at: once, when a child enrols at the school. Schools will https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/schools-pupils- then only need to inform parents in advance of each and-their-characteristics-january-2013 activity and give them the opportunity to withdraw their child from the activity if they wish, rather than Curriculum conducting bureaucratic form-filling exercises for every school trips. This will reduce bureaucracy for both parents and teachers. Mr Jamie Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what recent meetings he has had with pupils groups to discuss changes to education; and what Foster Care representations he has received from individual pupils regarding the proposed changes to the curriculum. Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for [161982] Education what recent consideration he has given to raising the age in which young people can choose to Elizabeth Truss: The Secretary of State for Education leave foster care from 18 to 21. [161953] visits schools regularly and takes every opportunity to speak with pupils about a range of issues related Mr Timpson: In October 2012, I wrote to all directors to education. Since May 2010 he has made 111 visits to of children’s services about the importance of supporting schools, not including political or constituency visits. care leavers and I urged local authorities to ensure that On the proposed changes to the curriculum specifically, care leavers are always living in safe, suitable the Department has held two events aimed at gathering accommodation. The Government’s Staying Put policy views on the new national curriculum with young people, encourages young people to remain with their former working in partnership with youth organisations. In foster carers beyond the age of 18 and allows them to addition, a number of young people responded to the experience a transition from care to independence and recent public consultation on the proposed changes, adulthood based on need and not age alone. and these responses are currently being considered alongside The Planning Transition to Adulthood for Care Leavers those of other respondents. Regulations and Guidance 2010 and the Fostering Regulations and Guidance 2011 (Children Act 1989) Education now require local authorities to have such a policy, and many already extend foster care placements beyond the child’s 18th birthday. Mr Jamie Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what steps he is taking to ensure that pupils The Department for Education has also worked alongside understand the reforms to the education system that the Department for Work and Pensions and HMRC to are currently underway. [161983] align and simplify tax rules for Staying Put arrangements to make implementing the policy even easier. Elizabeth Truss: It is important that pupils understand An amendment to the Children and Families Bill was the reforms this Government is undertaking to improve proposed on extending ’staying put’ arrangements. In the education system. We know that children and young the debate on 11 June on this amendment I explained people are most likely to access information about their that if no progress is being made in widening this education from teachers and parents, with whom we provision I will consider if legislation is required in the communicate regularly. future. When appropriate we directly engage young people on our reforms—for example we recently produced a Free Schools: Admissions children’s version of the Children and Families Bill. We also specifically consulted with young people with special Stephen Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for educational needs (SEN) and disabilities on the SEN Education (1) what proportion of the places created provisions of the Bill. under the free schools programme in the current school year will be primary places; [161950] Educational Visits (2) what estimate he has made of the proportion of school places created under the free schools Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for programme created in areas where there is need for new Education what steps he is taking to reduce the amount places by 2015; [161951] of paperwork teachers have to complete when taking (3) what proportion of primary school places created pupils on educational visits. [161930] under the free schools programme to date have been created in areas with a shortage of primary places; Elizabeth Truss: The Department is committed to [161955] reducing unnecessary bureaucracy that can deter schools from taking pupils on valuable visits. We have simplified (4) what proportion of places in schools created the Department’s health and safety guidance, reducing under the free schools programme to date are primary it from 150 pages to eight pages. It sets out clearly what school places; [161956] schools and local authorities must do in law, and encourages (5) what proportion of places created by the new free both to take a common sense approach to ensuring schools announced in May 2013 will be primary places. compliance. [161990] 357W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 358W

Mr Timpson: Around 130,000 additional pupil places Elizabeth Truss: The Department does not hold a will be created in total by free schools which are open record of the number of journeys undertaken between and in the pipeline. the Department’s premises and Parliament using the Approximately 50% of places in open free schools are ministerial car pool. primary places (this includes primary places in all-through Outdoor Education schools). Approximately 89% of open primary free school places are in areas with a shortage of primary places. It is estimated that approximately 64% of places Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for in open free schools are in areas where there is a need Education what steps he is taking to improve teachers’ for new places by 2015. awareness of the Learning Outside the Classroom badge scheme. [161972] Including all-through schools, 42 out of 78 mainstream free schools approved in May 2013 will cater for primary- Elizabeth Truss: The Government do not promote aged pupils. 72% of all free school approvals and 91% individual schemes. Schools are free to choose how to of primary, approvals will go towards meeting basic deliver their curriculum, including the use of initiatives need. 90% of mainstream free schools approved in May such as the Learning Outside the Classroom badge 2013 are in areas of basic need or deprivation. The scheme. Government does not have a target for the number of primary places to be provided by the free schools Schools: Standards programme. The Government is addressing the shortage of places Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Education left by the last Government through basic need funding—we how many (a) failed and (b) underperforming (i) primary are spending £5 billion on creating new places over the and (ii) secondary schools there were in each of the last current spending review period, more than double the 30 years. [161541] amount spent by the previous Government in an equivalent timeframe. By September 2013, we expect 190,000 Elizabeth Truss: We have interpreted ’failed’ schools additional places will have been created, with many to mean schools judged as ’inadequate’ by Ofsted. Data more to come. from 2005 onwards have been placed in the House Library; no comparable data is available for inspections undertaken before September 2005. To compile this National Curriculum Tests information would incur disproportionate cost. There has been no consistent trend in the number or proportion of schools judged as ’inadequate’ between 2005/06 and Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State 2011/12. Many factors can influence the spread of inspection for Education (1) whether his Department plans to use grades, including modifications to successive frameworks, the current Key Stage 2 (KS2) curriculum or the draft some of which raised expectations, and moving to more KS2 curriculum planned for introduction in 2014 to be risk based inspection, with weaker schools inspected (a) used as the basis for KS2 assessment tests in 2015, more frequently than other schools. (b) 2016, (c) 2017 and (d) 2018; [161735] We have interpreted ’underperforming’ to mean those (2) what the earliest date is at which the draft Key schools that failed to meet the national floor targets. Stage 2 (KS2) curriculum planned for introduction in The first school-level floor targets used to identify 2014 could be used as the basis for KS2 assessment underperforming schools were introduced in 2002 for tests; [161736] key stage 2 and key stage 4. Prior to this, targets were set (3) what the latest date is at which the current Key at local education authority and national level. Data Stage 2 (KS2) curriculum could be used as the basis for from 2000 onwards on the number of schools failing to KS2 assessment tests. [161737] meet each year’s targets have been placed in the House Library. With rising attainment, the criteria for being ″ ″ Elizabeth Truss: The new national curriculum will be above the floor has increased over the period—the introduced from September 2014. Key stage 2 statutory number of schools below the floor has decreased both assessments under the new national curriculum will absolutely and relatively between 2000 and 2012. In take place in summer 2016 and in subsequent years. 2012, at key stage 4 the toughest threshold to date was This is the earliest that the Standards and Testing introduced, leading to an increase in the number of Agency can develop new national curriculum tests. Pupils schools below the floor between 2011 and 2012. will have been taught the new curriculum for two years UN Committee on the Rights of the Child before being assessed under it. The existing national curriculum will continue to be Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for the basis for statutory end of key stage 2 assessments in Education (1) how much funding his Department will summer 2014 and summer 2015. make available to support the participation of children and young people in the 2014 reporting round to the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child; Official Cars [161927] (2) with reference to Article 12 of the UN Convention Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education on the Rights of the Child, what steps he plans to take how many journeys he has undertaken between his to ensure that children and young people’s opinions are Department’s premises and Parliament using the ministerial represented in the Government’s report to the UN car pool in the last 12 months. [162015] Committee on the Rights of the Child; [161961] 359W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 360W

(3) with reference to Article 12 of the UN BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Convention on the Rights of the Child, what steps he plans to take to ensure that children and young people Apprentices are represented in the 2014 reporting process of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. [161967] Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what financial support Mr Timpson: The Government is due to submit a his Department makes available for small businesses to report on implementation of the UN Convention on take on apprentices. [161916] the Rights of the Child in the United Kingdom to the United Nations in January 2014. Preparation of the report is under way and will continue over the coming Michael Fallon: In addition to wider efforts to create months. I expect the report to include details of various more apprenticeship opportunities, the Government has consultations that have taken place with children and introduced the Apprenticeship Grant for Employers young people on a wide range of policy proposals and (AGE 16-24). This provides grants to support smaller issues. Some were organised for us by the British Youth employers taking on young apprentices aged 16-24. Council, to which the Department has allocated £666,000 Grants of £1,500 per apprentice are available. The grant for 2013-15 in support of youth voice. Other consultations is available to employers with up to 1,000 employees were conducted by or on behalf of individual Government who have not taken on an apprentice in the previous 12 Departments. We do not have a record of their costs. months, and an employer can claim grants to support up to 10 new apprentices. The availability of this grant I would expect children and young people to be has been extended until 31 December 2013. involved in the later stages of the reporting process to the UN. We will consider the practical and funding implications of this when we know the UN’s timetable. Flexible Working: Carers

Vocational Guidance: Engineering Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he (a) has Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for and (b) plans to put in place to improve awareness of Education what recent assessment he has made of the the right to request flexible working amongst (i) employers level of engagement of engineering firms with careers and (ii) employees with caring responsibilities for older advice services. [161763] or disabled relatives; and if he will make a statement. [161553] Matthew Hancock: Schools have a duty to secure careers guidance for pupils in years 9-11, and are expected Jo Swinson: This Department has been working with to work in partnership, as appropriate, with external a number of external partners to highlight the benefits careers providers and employers. From September this of flexible working to both employees and employers. duty will be extended to years 8-13 and to colleges. An example of this is our involvement with the Department The Department ensures that the Government-funded for Work and Pension’s Private Sector Working Group National Careers Service provides information and advice on flexible working, chaired by Working Families, which on careers in engineering. This includes details of jobs, has been raising awareness of the right to request flexible careers, the skills and qualifications needed and links to working. Their newly created strap line ’Happy to talk representative bodies. We are looking to expand engagement Flexible Working’ encourages employers to advertise between employers and the National Careers Service to vacancies that operate flexibly and also encourages ensure that young people get information on academic prospective employee’s to discuss their flexible working and vocational routes into Science, Technology, Engineering needs with the employer at interview. and Maths (STEM) careers. This Department has also been working with Carers In addition, EngineeringUK, through initiatives such UK and Employers for Carers to highlight the benefits as the Big Bang Fair and Tomorrow’s Engineers, are of flexible working to carers, and we welcome the work raising young people’s awareness of the wide variety of undertaken by groups such as the Agile Future Forum engineering courses on offer and the benefits and rewards (a group of leading businesses) which highlights the they can bring. The STEM Ambassadors programme, opportunities and benefits that flexible working practices funded through the Department for Business, Innovation bring to employers. and Skills, also works to raise awareness among children This Department will continue to work with all the of the range of careers that science and technical relevant representative bodies to ensure that the extension qualifications offer. of the right to request flexible working to all employees is publicised when it comes into force in 2014.

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Greenwich University

Privy Council Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills whether Greenwich Mr Sanders: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister on university was one of the 40 universities contacted by what dates the Privy Council will meet in July 2013. his Department in 2009 under the auspices of the [162050] Prevent strategy; and whether his Department received evidence that Greenwich university had conducted an The Deputy Prime Minister: The Privy Council is assessment of the risk of radicalisation on its campus. scheduled to meet on 10 July. [161586] 361W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 362W

Mr Willetts: Greenwich university have, like most Sports manufacturers can apply for support for any institutions, worked closely with their police Prevent of the above services in the same way as any other UK engagement officer over recent years to look at the risks based company. on their campus. The institution is now working with In the current year’s TAP programme UKTI is BIS’s London Prevent co-ordinator. supporting organised groups of UK businesses at over We do not publish the list of 40 universities that were 17 specialist and general sports trade shows. contacted in 2009. This information is exempt from publication. Professional Organisations

Higher Education: Radicalism Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what his policy is on Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the self-regulation of professional bodies; and what Business, Innovation and Skills what funding his assessment he has made of the efficacy of professional Department has allocated to universities in order to insurance schemes. [161629] deliver the Prevent strategy; and which universities have received such funding. [161593] Jo Swinson: Government policy towards the self- regulation of professional bodies varies according to Mr Willetts: There is no funding currently allocated the nature of the professional body. The Department directly to universities to deliver activities under the for Business, Innovation and Skills has made no assessment Prevent strategy. We do however fund 10 regional of the efficacy of professional insurance schemes. coordinators to support universities and colleges to engage with Prevent. In addition the National Union of Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Students receives funding to train staff and sabbatical Business, Innovation and Skills what recent representations officers in Prevent awareness and to produce guidance he has received from those who represent victims of on external speakers and room bookings. Universities professional negligence on the effectiveness of professional UK is publishing guidance for universities on speakers insurance schemes. [161638] and has set up a website for the sector to share knowledge and collect resources together. Jo Swinson: Our records show that the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my right hon. Manufacturing Industries: Sports Friend the Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable), has received no such representations. Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Students: Loans Business, Innovation and Skills what support his Department offers British-based sports manufacturers to export their products. [161507] Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what work is currently (a) ongoing Michael Fallon: UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) within his Department and (b) commissioned by his provides trade advice and practical support to UK-based Department on modelling the effect of retrospective companies wishing to export their products. Advice is changes to the terms of student loans. [162275] provided through a network of professional advisers within the UK and across more than 100 international Mr Willetts: The Education (Student Loans) markets. Support ranges from participation at selected (Repayment) Regulations set out the terms and conditions trade fairs, inward and outward missions through to of income contingent student loans. As we have no providing bespoke market intelligence. intention to change retrospectively the terms that applied in previous years, no such modelling work is being Gateway to Global Growth: undertaken or commissioned by this Department. Is a service for experienced exporters which offers a 12 month programme of strategic support tailored to each company’s UK Research Partnership Investment Fund requirements. The Export Marketing Research Scheme (EMRS): Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Provides independent advice on carrying out marketing research; Business, Innovation and Skills what proportion of the in addition companies may be eligible for a grant of up to 50% of UK Research Partnership Investment Fund awarded the cost of conducting that market research. by the Higher Education Funding Council for England The Export Communications Review (ECR): has been awarded to institutions in (a) the North East Provides companies with impartial and objective advice on language and (b) the South and London to date. [162033] and cultural issues. The Overseas Market Introduction Service (OMIS): Mr Willetts: The UK Research Partnership Investment Is a chargeable business tool allowing UK companies to use Fund (RPIF) is managed by the Higher Education the services of UKTI’s trade teams overseas for bespoke services. Funding Council for England (HEFCE) with funding UKTI’s Tradeshow Access Programme (TAP): allocated via competitive process. Higher education institutions across the UK are able to bid for funding, Provides grant support for eligible SME firms to attend trade shows overseas. and all bids are assessed by an independent assessment panel against published criteria. Competition for funding UK companies can register on the UKTI website: has been strong, and HEFCE has to date provided www.ukti.gov.uk £137.6 million to institutions based in the South and to access information and to receive details of specific London. There have been no awards made so far to business opportunities. institutions from the North East. The commitment to 363W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 364W date from RPIF is £301.4 million, which has leveraged Court Advocates (HCAs) has increased over the last 10 £855 million from business and charities, together delivering years. In 2003-04 HCAs accounted for 3% of total a total investment of £1.156 billion in R&D collaborations AGFS spend. In the last financial year (2012-13) HCAs between universities, businesses and charities. accounted for 21% of total AGFS spend. Table 1: Proportion of AGFS spend delivered by barristers and HCAs since 2003-04 JUSTICE Percentage spend HCA Barrister Legal Aid Scheme: Cumbria 2003-04 3 97 2004-05 3 97 John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for 2005-06 3 97 Justice how many firms currently deal with legal aid 2006-07 4 96 cases in (a) Barrow and Furness constituency, (b) 2007-08 5 95 South Lakeland and (c) Cumbria. [160519] 2008-09 10 90 2009-10 13 87 Jeremy Wright: The firms that hold contracts with 2010-11 16 84 the Legal Aid Agency may provide services from several 2011-12 20 80 offices. The table shows both the number of offices and 2012-13 21 79 firms in each area. The Legal Aid Agency and its predecessor the Legal Services Commission (pre 1 April 2013) records costs Misuse of Drugs Ministerial Group relating to firms by legal aid procurement area, which is broadly based on local authority boundaries. We have provided information based on local authority area as a Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for reasonable proxy for constituency boundaries in relation Justice how many times Ministers of his Department to the Barrow-in-Furness and the South Lakeland. We have attended the inter-ministerial group on drugs have provided information based on procurement area since May 2010. [161578] as a reasonable proxy for the county of Cumbria as this encompasses a similar geographical area. Jeremy Wright: Ministers from this Department have attended the Inter-Ministerial Group on drugs on eight Number of occasions since May 2010. Area Type of area offices Number of firms

Cumbria Procurement 43 33 area Prisoners on Remand South Lakeland Local authority 77 area Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Barrow-in- Local authority 55 Furness area how many (a) men and (b) women were remanded in custody in each month of the last three years. [161449] Please note that the above information is correct as at 10 June 2013. Jeremy Wright: The following tables show the number Legal Costs of male and female prisoners received into prison on remand in England and Wales each month in 2010, 2011 and 2012. Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what the percentage rate of change in the value The figures provided are a further breakdown of of fees paid by the Legal Services Commission to those published in Table 1.2 of the ’Offender Management counsel and higher court advocates was pursuant to the Statistics Quarterly Bulletin’ available on the GOV.UK Graduated Fee Scheme for each of the last 10 years for website. which figures are available. [157991] These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems which, as with any large scale recording Jeremy Wright: The proportion of total Advocates’ system, are subject to possible errors with data entry Graduated Fee Scheme (AGFS) spend paid to Higher and processing.

Remand receptions into prison establishments1 by type of remand and by sex 2010-12 Untried receptions, by month 2010-12, England and Wales 2010 2011 2012 Male Female Male Female Male Female

January 3,819 322 4,054 354 3,922 342 February 3,786 359 3,824 359 3,965 366 March 4,417 399 4,213 402 4,121 315 April 4,161 384 3,859 327 3,767 305 May 4,361 409 4,323 368 3,970 292 June 4,250 364 4,189 316 3,651 315 July 4,376 367 4,206 346 4,113 373 August 3,998 358 5,326 451 4,097 345 365W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 366W

Remand receptions into prison establishments1 by type of remand and by sex 2010-12 Untried receptions, by month 2010-12, England and Wales 2010 2011 2012 Male Female Male Female Male Female

September 3,975 374 4,352 360 3,775 337 October 3,904 373 4,169 345 4,044 316 November 4,172 377 4,203 312 3,719 328 December 3,534 300 3,859 320 3,207 242 All 48,753 4,386 50,577 4,260 46,351 3,876

Convicted unsentenced receptions, 2010-12, England and Wales 2010 2011 2012 Male Female Male Female Male Female

January 2,506 193 2,773 217 2,866 181 February 2,766 222 2,654 238 2,729 208 March 2,931 243 3,035 249 3,076 210 April 2,661 204 2,646 199 2,669 161 May 3,042 253 2,993 255 3,060 199 June 3,196 245 3,255 214 2,776 163 July 3,254 235 3,047 234 3,074 221 August 2,845 201 3,267 263 2,933 180 September 3,240 250 3,335 269 2,798 199 October 3,137 226 3,213 254 3,108 206 November 3,315 257 3,363 244 2,878 225 December 2,659 216 2,951 223 2,364 162 All 35,552 2,745 36,532 2,859 3,431 2,315 1 Excludes police cells. Note: Untried and convicted unsentenced receptions cannot be combined to give total remand receptions as some individuals are counted under both types of remand reception.

Prisoners: Public Consultation (2) how many speech and language therapists currently work within (a) prisons and (b) young Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice offender institutes. [161502] how many prisoners responded to public consultations run by his Department in the last year. [161272] Jeremy Wright: Central data is not available on the Jeremy Wright: Central data is not available to confirm number of offenders in custody with speech and language how many prisoners responded to public consultations difficulties or on the number of speech and language run by the Ministry of Justice in the last year. This therapists currently working in prisons. The information information could be obtained only by a manual check could be collected only by a manual check of local with individual policy holders, which would incur records and this would incur disproportionate cost. disproportionate cost. Prisoners: Rehabilitation All newly received prisoners who wish to undertake education or training while in custody in England have James Wharton: To ask the Secretary of State for a detailed assessment by the learning provider of their Justice what information his Department holds on the needs, and needs can also be identified through routine number of prisoners in England and Wales awaiting screening. This is a contractual obligation on the Offenders’ placement on sex offender treatment programmes and Learning and Skills Service (OLASS 4) service providers. the number of places available on such courses annually. In all public sector prisons, learning and skills in prisons [161334] is funded by the Department for Business Innovation and Skills, provided by learning and skills providers, Jeremy Wright: We expect a total of 885 placements and co-commissioned between the Skills Funding Agency to be completed on sex offender treatment programmes and NOMS. In Wales, learning and skills in prison is in prisons in England and Wales in 2013-14. delivered by HMPS staff. The number of prisoners who have been assessed and The assessment will identify any additional learning are on a waiting list for places on these programmes is support needs, and the learning provider has access to a not centrally available. We are obtaining the information dedicated budget to deliver that additional support. from each prison that runs sex offender treatment Where other needs are identified (for example a learning programmes and I will write to my hon. Friend as soon disability which might require additional detailed as possible. assessment), the learning provider will refer appropriately. Prisoners: Speech and Language Disorders Examples might include speech and language therapy, occupational therapy, and mental health support. Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) what recent assessment he has made of the Additional support against assessed need will be proportion of prisoners who have speech and language delivered through personalised programmes, and through difficulties; [161501] the use of specialist staff, adaptations and resources 367W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 368W where appropriate. This support is expected to last programme for 2013-15, and in line with the wider throughout the length of the programme and should be Government strategy on Fighting Fraud and Error continuously reviewed. through early prevention and detection. The Agency is Prison health services may identify prisoners with part of the working group, led by the Cabinet Office, to speech and language difficulties. Annually refreshed identify solutions to data sharing barriers and improve prison health needs assessments are commissioned locally joint working. for each prison by NHS England, working with Public Health England, may identify these needs at the population Verne Prison level. Routine health screens and health appointments will identify prisoners requiring support. Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and education in Wales are devolved matters Justice what his policy is on the future of HM Prison for the Welsh Government. Processes to identify and The Verne; and if he will make a statement. [161315] meet the health needs of prisoners in Wales are broadly similar to those described above and are in general the Jeremy Wright: The National Offender Management responsibility of local health boards and NHS Wales. Service and the Home Office are working together to Tax Evasion ensure that there is sufficient prison and detention capacity for foreign national prisoners and immigration detainees. Gareth Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many cases have been referred by the (a) As part of that, the two organisations are looking at Legal Services Commission and (b) Crown Prosecution where such offenders are currently held and possible Service to HM Revenue and Customs for consideration future arrangements. No decisions have been taken of prosecution for tax evasion in each of the last three about HM Prison The Verne. years. [159004] Youth Custody Jeremy Wright: The Legal Aid Agency (former Legal Services Commission) is not in a position to answer for Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice the Crown Prosecution Service, which is a matter for the what the average cost was of a place in a (a) secure Attorney-General. training centre, (b) local authority children’s home The Legal Aid Agency has not referred any cases to and (c) young offender institution in each of the last the HM Revenue and Customs for consideration of tax three financial years. [161445] evasion in the years 2010-13. The Agency is working together with HM Revenue Jeremy Wright: The following table shows the average and Customs to identify ways of sharing data between cost of a place in a (a) Secure Training Centre, (b) the two Departments, when fraud is suspected. This is a Secure Children’s Home and (c) under-18 YoungOffender key element of the Agency’s anti fraud strategy and Institution in each of the last five financial years.

Average sector bed prices To the nearest £000 Financial year Secure Training Centres (STC) Secure Children’s homes (SCH) Under-18 Young Offender Institutions (YOI)

2009-10 160,000 215,000 60,000 2010-11 163,000 219,000 59,000 2011-12 170,000 211,000 57,000 2012-13 178,000 212,000 60,000 2013-14 187,000 209,000 60,000 Note: All prices shown above are to the nearest thousand; they are based upon Youth Justice Board (YJB) budget allocations for 2012-13. They are prices which the YJB and MOJ pay for those services in young people’s secure custodial facilities. They are not intended to represent the total price of providing custody and related services to young people as they exclude other costs associated with custody such as: Education costs in under-18 Young Offender Institutions Secure and custodial transport for young people Service development programmes such as workforce and regime development—e.g. new restraint system; VAT paid by the YJB (on applicable services). Source: Children and Young People’s Estate Average Sector Prices (Youth Justice Board)

WORK AND PENSIONS capability assessment. Where appropriate any failure has resulted in the Department taking appropriate action. Atos Healthcare Since the introduction of the work capability assessment the Department has applied performance remedies on Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 23 occasions. and Pensions how many times Atos has breached its contractual targets in its delivery of the work capability assessment to date. [162046] Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Mr Hoban: The Department reviews Atos’s performance Pensions how many complaints have been made to Atos against the contractual performance targets on a monthly regarding the work capability assessment to date; and basis and this includes targets in respect of the work what the outcomes were of these complaints. [162047] 369W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 370W

Mr Hoban: Since the introduction of work capability Guidance for users is available at: assessments in 2008, 14,941 complaints have been made https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ to Atos Healthcare to date. attachment_data/file/203439/tab-tool-guidance.pdf This represents all complaints relating to the overall The statistics on jobseeker’s allowance sanctions applied service provided by Atos, including arrangements for from 22 October 2012 will be published in due course. an appointment, the conducting of the work capability assessment (WCA) and the information contained on a medical report completed by health care professionals. Jobseeker’s Allowance: Dunbartonshire The outcome or action taken following each complaint investigation is dependent upon the circumstances of each case. Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many jobseeker’s allowance claimants Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and registered at (a) Clydebank Jobcentre Plus, (b) Dumbarton Pensions what the value of his Department’s contract Jobcentre Plus and (c) Alexandria Jobcentre Plus have with Atos to deliver the work capability assessment is. had their benefit sanctioned in each month since September [162055] 2012. [161943]

Mr Hoban: The total cost of these services provided Mr Hoban: Statistics on the number of jobseeker’s under the Medical Services contract amounts to allowance sanctions and disallowance referrals, where approximately £100 million per annum. This figure not the decision was found against the claimant, in each only covers the total number of assessments undertaken month from 1 April 2000 to 21 October 2012, by across all benefits, but also costs relating to written and Jobcentre Plus office can be found at: verbal medical advice, fixed overheads, administrative costs, investment in new technology and other service https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/number-of- improvements. jobseekers-allowance-sanctions-and-disallowances-where-a- decision-has-been-made-in-each-month-from-1-april-2000-to- 21-october-2012 Jobcentre Plus Statistics from 22 October 2012 will be published in Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for due course. Work and Pensions how his Department assessed the performance of jobcentres in 2012; and how it will Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Work assess them in 2013. [161851] and Pensions how many appeals against jobseeker’s allowance sanctions have been successful in West Mr Hoban: Off flow from benefits is used to measure Dunbartonshire constituency since September 2012. the performance of jobcentres. This measure was used [161984] in 2012 and will be used in 2013.

Jobseeker’s Allowance Mr Hoban: Statistics on how many appeals against Jobseeker’s Allowance sanctions have been successful in West Dunbartonshire constituency from 1 April 2000 to Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 21 October 2012 (the last date of the old regulations) and Pensions what steps he is taking with the devolved can be found at: Assemblies to reduce the number of jobseeker’s allowance claimants. [161895] https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department- for-work-pensions/series/dwp-statistics-tabulation-tool Mr Hoban: Jobcentre Plus works closely with the Guidance for users is available at: devolved Administrations in Wales and Scotland to https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ enable unemployed people access the right support they attachment_data/file/203439/tab-tool-guidance.pdf need to get a job and stay in work. Our policies build effective local partnerships to ensure the right support Statistics on jobseeker’s allowance sanctions from is in place to meet the needs of employers and those 22 October 2012 are not yet available. looking for work. At a more strategic level there are regular meetings between DWP, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to work together to share best practice Low Pay on helping jobseekers find employment. Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many families in work with children and Pensions for what reasons jobseeker’s allowance were earning less than the average national weekly claims have been sanctioned in each month since January income in (a) Barnsley Central constituency, (b) South 2012. [161985] Yorkshire and (c) England in each year since 2010. [162053] Mr Hoban: Statistics on the number of jobseeker’s allowance sanction referrals by month and reason for referral, up to 21 October 2012 (the last date of the old Esther McVey: Information for South Yorkshire and regulations), can be found at: Barnsley Central constituency is not available as the https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department- sample size the Family Resources Survey is not sufficient for-work-pensions/series/dwp-statistics-tabulation-tool to provide robust estimates for these areas. 371W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 372W

The information requested for England is shown in reduction of benefits when they increase their earnings. the following table. Universal credit will also reduce child poverty by re-focusing Table 1: Number of families with children with incomes below average national of entitlements on lower income in-work households weekly income1 by economic status, Before Housing Costs, England and having a simpler system that should lead to a Number of families with children where at least one adult is in work with incomes considerable increase in the take-up compared to the below average national weekly income1, Before Housing Costs, England current complex system of benefits and tax credits. Million We want to develop better measures of child poverty Below average national weekly income which include, but go beyond income to provide a more Number of families with children whose family type is: 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 accurate picture of the reality of child poverty. Our consultation on how best to measure child poverty At least one adult in work 2.6 2.6 2.8 closed on 15 February. The complexity of the issue Workless families 1.0 1.0 0.9 means that we need to take time to ensure we have the Total 3.6 3.6 3.6 best option for measuring child poverty, so that we can 1 Average income is defined as the median equivalised net household income, ensure we properly tackle the causes. We will publish where median income divides the population of families, when ranked by income, into two equal sized groups. Equivalisation is the process that makes our response as soon as we can. adjustments to incomes, so that the standard of living of households with different compositions can be compared. Notes: New Businesses 1. These statistics are based on Households Below Average Income (HBAI) data sourced from the Family Resources Survey (FRS). This uses disposable household income, adjusted using modified OECD equivalisation factors for Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for household size and composition, as an income measure as a proxy for standard Work and Pensions how many new businesses he expects of living. 2. Families with children are defined as a single adult or a couple living together to have been created as a result of the new enterprise with dependent children. allowance scheme by the end of 2013. [161937] 3. The number of working families with children who have a household income of less than the national weekly median is calculated on the basis of household income for all families in the United Kingdom. Therefore, the median income Mr Hoban: We have made a commitment to support divides the population of all families, when ranked by income, into two equal the creation of up to 40,000 new businesses by the end sized groups. of 2013. Nearly 1,000 new businesses are being established 4. The statistics published in the Households Below Average Income (HBAI) publication are based on the number of people below various thresholds of every month because of the New Enterprise Allowance, median household income for all individuals, and are therefore produced on a a trend which suggests around 20,000 have been set up different basis to the figures provided in the table. 5. Figures have been presented on an Before Housing Cost basis. Housing costs in total. consist of (rent, water rates, mortgage interest payments, buildings insurance payments and ground rent and service charges). 6. All estimates are based on survey data and are therefore subject to a degree of New Enterprise Allowance uncertainty. Small differences should be treated with caution as these will be affected by sampling error and variability in non-response. 7. The reference period for HBAI figures is the financial year. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for 8. Numbers of families with children have been rounded to the nearest 100,000. Work and Pensions what plans he has to provide support Source: for unemployed people seeking self employment after FRS referrals to the current new enterprise allowance scheme ends in September; and if he will make a statement. Further information can be found in the Household [161939] Below Average Income series published at http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/index.php?page=hbai Mr Hoban: We are currently developing the policy for Work is the best route out of poverty, children in self-employment provision after September. More workless households are around three times more likely information on this will be available in due course. to be in poverty than those in working families. New statistics (Households Below Average Income) Occupational Pensions show that the number of children in workless poor families has reduced by 100,000 children over the past Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work year (a two percentage point reduction). The proportion and Pensions how much his Department has spent on of children in poverty who are in working families has communicating to the public the introduction of the risen, this is because the proportion of children in Government’s workplace pension scheme. [161599] workless households has fallen as more families have moved into work. Steve Webb: To date, we have spent £7,840,308.24 on The evidence consistently shows that the best routes communications to individuals, and £1,479,380.25 on out of poverty are through parents being in work and communications to employers. through a child’s educational achievement which can Automatic enrolment into a workplace pension is a stop a poor child becoming a poor adult. Income major government reform programme. It is a legal matters but it is also about addressing barriers to requirement and will see 1.3 million employers enrolling employment and ensuring that every family has the up to 10 million eligible workers into a pension scheme. skills and opportunity to lift themselves out of poverty. Our communications campaign aims to raise awareness We are introducing the universal credit which will and understanding of workplace pensions, and ultimately reduce child poverty through making work pay and encourage more people to stay enrolled. The campaign providing an effective route out of poverty. Universal is supported by a programme of low cost/no cost activities. credit will improve work incentives by allowing individuals Since the launch of the campaign in September 2012, to keep more of their income as they move into work, our tracking shows that the campaign has reached over and by introducing a smoother and more transparent 87% of all adults who watch commercial TV, and the 373W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 374W radio advert has reached 67% of the population, who https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department- heard it 10 times on average during the launch burst in for-work-pensions/series/benefit-cap-statistics September/October 2012. Following the initial burst of campaign activity, awareness Andy Sawford: To ask the Secretary of State for of the change in the law had risen to 71% of working Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the age adults, up from 33% prior to the start of the number of households likely to be subject to the benefit campaign. cap after July 2013. [161824]

Social Security Benefits Mr Hoban: National implementation of the benefit cap commences 15 July and by the end of September Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2013 all appropriate households will have been capped. and Pensions how much his Department has spent on We estimate around 40,000 households may be subject communicating to the public (a) changes to entitlements to the benefit cap in 2013-14. This estimate is available made by the Welfare Reform Act 2012 and (b) assistance at: available to those affected by such changes. [161598] https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/196895/ Mr Hoban: The information is not available in the Ben_Cap_Updated_Estimate.pdf format requested. Such information as is available is in the table. Andy Sawford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work The Department has also made a wide range of and Pensions whether there are circumstances under welfare reform information available online at GOV.UK which an out of work household that is not otherwise via a series of toolkits. The toolkits have been promoted exempt from the benefit cap would still receive benefits extensively to stakeholders, many of whom are actively in excess of the cap after its introduction. [161847] using the content to communicate the changes to people who may be affected. Mr Hoban: The majority of households who currently Welfare reform publicity costs receive benefits in excess of the cap level will be in Activity Cost (£000) receipt of housing benefit and they will have the cap applied in line with the Department’s announced timetable Benefit cap direct mail 85 for its phased roll-out. We are aware that there may be a Spare room subsidy advertising 84 small number of households whose income from benefits Personal independence payment 17.5 other than housing benefit exceeds the level of the cap stakeholder events and these will continue to receive benefits over the cap level until their claims migrate to universal credit. Stephen Doughty: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many out of work households Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for who are not otherwise exempt from the benefit cap, will Work and Pensions with reference to the letter to him of still receive benefits in excess of the cap after its 9 May 2013 from the Chair of the UK Statistics Authority introduction. [161721] on Department for Work and Pensions statistics, enclosing a letter of the same date to the Trades Union Congress, Mr Hoban: We estimate that around 4,000 out of if he will review the answer of 16 May 2013, Official work households who would not otherwise be exempt Report, column 353W, on social security benefits in the from the benefit cap, will still receive benefits in excess light of the contents of both letters. [162018] of the cap after its introduction. This is due to the cap initially operating through housing benefit. Until claimants Mr Hoban: The Department formally responded to are migrated to universal credit, it remains possible for the letter in question on 14 May 2013 and is making combinations of other out of work benefits to exceed every effort to meet the requirements as set out by the this level. UK Statistics Authority: This figure is consistent with the ad hoc statistics http://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/reports--- release of the number of households we estimate to be correspondence/correspondence/robert-devereux-to-andrew- affected by the benefit cap published in April 2013, dilnot-140513.pdf which can be found here: The response dated 16 May 2013 contained accurate https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ information as published by the Department with the attachment_data/file/196895/ required caveats noted. The plan for releasing number Ben_Cap_Updated_Estimate.pdf.pdf of capped cases has also now been published and is available at: Andy Sawford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) how many people have been https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for- work-pensions/series/benefit-cap-statistics affected by the benefit cap since its introduction in April 2013; [161823] Social Security Benefits: Greater London (2) what the average loss in income per person has been for people affected by the benefit cap since its introduction in April 2013. [161868] Andy Sawford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what the cost was of administering the Mr Hoban: Statistics outlining the number of households benefit cap in the London boroughs of (a) Haringey, affected by the benefit cap will be published shortly. (b) Enfield, (c) Croydon and (d) Bromley since April This analysis will be published here: 2013. [161814] 375W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 376W

Mr Hoban: The following table illustrates the In March, HMRC announced a temporary relaxation, administrative funding provided to the four local authorities until 5 October 2013, of requirements for reporting for phased roll-out and national implementation. PAYEdata for small firms employing fewer than 50 people. This recognises that those smaller employers who pay £ employees weekly, or more frequently, but only process 2013-14 their payroll monthly, may need longer to adjust their Project management New burdens process to reporting PAYE in real-time. and set-up costs funding Total This relaxation runs for a period of six months, Bromley 216,608 64,420 281,028 broadly coinciding with the UC Pathfinder, during which Croydon 367,560 164,547 532,107 we expect the number of employers of UC claimants to Enfield 441,093 368,483 809,576 be relatively small. We will be utilising RTI data for Haringey 277,939 207,256 485,195 claimants where this is possible. Where RTI is not Total 1,303,200 804,706 2,107,906 available we will have alternative clerical processes to ensure their awards are based on accurate and up-to-date The project management and set-up costs were provided earnings information. Based on our knowledge of to enable the management of phased roll-out and the employers recruiting in the Pathfinder area, we would compilation and analysis of lessons learned. not expect the relaxation to have a significant effect. We will, however, be monitoring this closely during the Pathfinder. Unemployment: West Midlands HMRC have now announced that the concession will run until the beginning of April 2014 when it will be Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for withdrawn. However, it is not expected that it will have Work and Pensions what measures other than the a significant effect on the first months of live UC Work Programme are in place to tackle unemployment running. in Birmingham and the West Midlands. [162060] Universal Credit: Ashton Under Lyne Mr Hoban: Jobcentre Plus personal advisers offer a comprehensive menu of help including support with jobs search, work experience, skills provision, volunteering, Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for and help to set up their own businesses. Work and Pensions how many people have claimed universal credit at Ashton-under-Lyne jobcentre since The Youth Contract provides wage incentives for 29 April 2013. [161707] employers who want to recruit an unemployed young person, from Jobcentre Plus or the Work Programme, and financial incentives to take on young apprentices. Mr Hoban: I refer the hon. Member to the reply I provided the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Where Jobcentre Plus advisers feel that a person Hill (Mr Byrne) on 6 June 2013, Official Report, column would benefit from a short period of activity, they can 1253W. refer them to a Mandatory Work Activity placement that lasts for four weeks focused on delivering benefit to The Department is working to guidelines set by the the local community. UK Statistics Authority to ensure we are able to publish statistics that meet high quality standards at the earliest In-work support for 18 to 24-year-olds is offered in opportunity. We intend to publish Official Statistics on Birmingham. This is designed to support those starting pathfinder areas in autumn 2013. work who may have difficulties holding down a position for the first 26 weeks. Support includes a dedicated We expect around 7,000 claims to be processed in Aftercare Adviser, access to an In-Work Mentoring pathfinders. Service and Money Management and Debt Counselling. Work Capability Assessment: Appeals

Universal Credit Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions with reference to the decision of Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for the Upper Tier Tribunal in ST v SSWP (2012) UKUT Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of the 469 (AAC)-(CE/829/2012), what steps he has taken to effect on the roll-out of universal credit of the ensure that all submissions to tribunals concerning announcement by HM Revenue and Customs that small appeals against decisions made following application of businesses will be permitted to submit PAYE information the work capability assessment contain all the relevant monthly rather than in real time from October 2013; evidence. [161897] and if he will make a statement. [161938] Mr Hoban: Guidance is available to all DWP employment Mr Hoban: I refer the right hon. Gentleman to my and support allowance appeal writers telling them to answer of 26 March 2013, Official Report, column 1030W. provide relevant evidence to tribunals for appeals against The universal credit system will assess the payment to decisions made following a work capability assessment. be made to a claimant monthly. Earnings used to calculate The relevant guidance can be found at: the universal credit payment will be determined from http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch06.pdf Real Time Information (RTI) data received in the assessment period and any earnings reported by the and claimant. http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/ch04.pdf 377W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 378W

Work Programme: Clwyd Lynne Featherstone: DFID draws on global research. In December 2012 The Lancet published the “Global Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Burden of Disease study”. It found that road traffic and Pensions how many young people in Vale of Clwyd crashes accounted for nearly a third of the world injury constituency returned to work under the Work programme burden. Economically disadvantaged families are hardest in each month of that scheme’s operation. [161970] hit by both direct medical costs and indirect costs, such as lost wages, that result from road traffic injuries. At Mr Hoban: The information requested is not available. the national level, road traffic injuries result in considerable financial costs, particularly to developing economies. Statistics on how many people gained a job outcome Indeed, road traffic injuries are estimated to cost low- under the Work programme in each month from 1 June and middle-income countries between 1% and 2% of 2011 to 31 July 2012 can be found at: their gross national product, estimated at over US$100 https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department- billion a year. for-work-pensions/series/dwp-statistics-tabulation- tool#benefit-caseloads Palestinians Statistics covering Work programme referrals, attachments and job outcomes to March 2013 are being Mr Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for published on 27 June 2013. International Development what processes are in place to ensure that UK aid to the Palestinian Authority is not used to pay salaries to Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons convicted of terror offences. [161708] INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Developing Countries: Roads Mr Duncan: I refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to him on 21 March 2013, Official Report, Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for columns 766-67W. International Development whether her Department has Sierra Leone made any estimate of the number of people who (a) are killed and (b) suffer an incapacitating disability as Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for a result of road accidents in developing countries. International Development what assessment she has [161506] made of child poverty in Kailahun province, Sierra Leone. [161509] Lynne Featherstone: The World Health Organisation has recently prepared a Global Status Report on Road Lynne Featherstone: The most recent assessment of Safety. That report shows that road traffic injuries are child poverty in Kailahun is contained in the results of the eighth leading cause of death globally, and the the Multiple Indicator Cluster Survey undertaken by leading cause of death for young people aged 15-29. the UN Children’s Fund (UNICEF), published in 1.24 million people were killed on the roads in 2010. For December 2011. In common with other rural districts in every road traffic fatality, at least 20 people sustain Sierra Leone, this shows that children in Kailahun non-fatal injuries. These deaths and injuries occur suffer severe levels of poverty and deprivation. Although predominantly in poor countries and a high proportion child survival rates in Kailahun are a little above the of deaths (Africa 38%) are pedestrians. The cost of overall rate for the country, the district scores second dealing with the consequences of these road traffic worst against UNICEF’s Early Child Development index crashes runs to billions of dollars. (which shows the percentage of children developmentally on track with respect to literacy-numeracy, physical Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for wellbeing, social-emotional development, and learning). International Development whether her Department provides support to any programmes to improve road safety in developing countries. [161512] FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Lynne Featherstone: The UK is providing £1.5 million Afghanistan over three years to the Global Road Safety Facility (GRSF), managed by the World Bank. DFID’s support Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for will contribute to the achievement of the UN Decade of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his Action goal of reducing road casualties by 50% by Department is taking to engage with Central Asian 2020. As part of the African Community Access states on transition in Afghanistan. [161330] Programme (AFCAP), DFID has also commissioned road safety research. One example is a project with the Alistair Burt: We have taken active steps to engage NGO AMEND which works with schoolchildren and with Central Asian states on transition in Afghanistan motorbike taxis on road safety in Tanzania. There is to help secure long-term stability and security for the also support to road safety in some DFID country region. The Senior Minister of State, my noble Friend programmes. For example in Democratic Republic of the right hon. Baroness Warsi discussed Afghanistan Congo, the “Pro-Routes”project to rehabilitate sections during her recent visits to Kazakhstan in April 2013, of the national highway includes road safety considerations and to Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan in at the engineering design stage. June 2013. She also represented the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) International Development whether her Department at the Ministerial Conference of the Istanbul Process in has made any assessment of the effect on development Almaty, Kazakhstan in April 2013. This conference of poor road safety. [161513] discussed regional stability and security, with a focus on 379W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 380W

Afghanistan. My noble and right hon. Friend met with Alistair Burt: The EU has taken significant steps to her Central Asian counterparts in the margins of this prevent Iran using its energy revenues to fund its nuclear conference to discuss Afghanistan. Our Central Asian programme. This includes a ban on the import of Iranian embassies actively engage their hosts on transition in oil and gas, and designation of Iran’s key energy companies Afghanistan, reaffirming the UK’s long-term commitment and their subsidiaries, as well as energy ministries. As a beyond 2014. In addition, we are working with Central result of EU and other international sanctions, Iranian Asian governments on a number of initiatives funded oil revenues have been cut by more than half from 2011 by the tri-departmental Conflict Pool to help them deal levels, and access to those revenues is highly constrained. with security challenges and we continue to monitor Sanctions have played an important part in bringing progress. Iran to the negotiating table.

Mr Tom Clarke: To ask the Secretary of State for Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has made of the decision of President Karzai to he has had with the president-elect of Iran on future boycott the peace talks in Qatar. [161340] relations and the possibility of mutual re-opening of full diplomatic facilities; and if he will make a statement Alistair Burt: The opening of a Taliban Political on relations with that country. [161702] Office in Doha for talks with Afghans and the US is a welcome step forward in the Afghan-led peace process. The Taliban have said that they will use the office in Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and Doha to pursue a peaceful, political solution and to Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member meet other Afghans. We hope and expect that meetings for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) has not had any with members of Afghanistan’s High Peace Council discussions with President-Elect Rouhani. will take place soon. On the question of UK-Iran relations, and the possibility of re-opening embassies, I refer the hon. Member to the Arms Trade answer the Secretary of State gave to the House on 17 June 2013, Official Report, column 626. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his Saudi Arabia Department is taking to ensure that a coherent approach is being taken towards the international sale of arms; and if he will make a statement. [161408] Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions Alistair Burt: The UK is a co-author and strong he has had with his Saudi Arabian counterpart on the supporter of the Arms Trade Treaty that was adopted execution of seven prisoners for armed robbery in that by an overwhelming majority at the UN General Assembly country on 13 March 2013. [161393] on 2 April. I signed the treaty for the UK on 3 June, and will shortly table the text in both Houses to initiate our Alistair Burt: I expressed my concern about this case ratification process. The Treaty will save lives, reduce in a public statement I made on 13 March. It can be human suffering, and bring consistency to the global found on the Government’s website at: trade in conventional arms. It will not stigmatise the http://www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-concerned-at- legitimate trade in arms. Instead it will protect it, establishing executions-in-saudi-arabia global commitments on national arms export controls and a baseline for robust controls that ensure countries Officials have since raised the death penalty with the can defend their citizens without undermining human Saudi Arabian Government. development. Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign British Overseas Territories and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he has had with his Saudi Arabian counterpart on that Sir Andrew Stunell: To ask the Secretary of State for country’s human rights record. [161394] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is taking to ensure that overseas territories sign the Multilateral Alistair Burt: In April, the Deputy Head of Mission Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in at our embassy in Riyadh met the Deputy-Chairman of Tax Matters; and when he expects them to sign this the Saudi Human Rights Commission. They discussed Convention. [161963] the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s (FCO) Annual Human Rights Report 2012, and some of the concerns Mr Gauke: I have been asked to reply on behalf of highlighted within it. The head of the FCO’s Human the Treasury. Rights and Democracy Department visited Saudi Arabia I refer the right hon. Member to the answer given on in May. She met His Highness Dr Prince Turki bin 18 June 2013, Official Report, column 636W. Mohammed bin Saud al-Kebir, Minister responsible for human rights at the Saudi Arabian Ministry of Foreign Iran Affairs, members of the Majlis Ash-Shura’s Human Rights Committee, authorised Saudi human rights NGOs, Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for and human rights activists. We hope the Shura’s Human Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment Rights Committee will be able to visit Parliament to he has made of the effectiveness of sanctions against discuss the work of the Joint Committee on Human Iranian oil and gas companies. [161319] Rights in due course. 381W Written Answers27 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 382W

USA Alistair Burt: I refer to the statement made by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond and Commonwealth Affairs on what date the intelligence (Yorks) (Mr Hague) to the House on 10 June 2013, agencies informed the Intelligence and Security Committee Official Report, columns 31-34. about Prism; and if he will make a statement. [162014]

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 27 June 2013

Col. No. Col. No. HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 459 TRANSPORT—continued Library/Table Office: Opening Hours...... 459 Coastal Safety...... 443 Dangerous Driving ...... 446 LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 458 East Coast Main Line ...... 449 All-party Parliamentary Groups ...... 459 Get Britain Cycling Campaign...... 452 E-petitions ...... 461 Local Growth Fund ...... 452 European Union: Scrutiny ...... 458 Local Pinch Point Fund ...... 451 Government Expenditure: Scrutiny...... 462 London Transport Network...... 453 Motorists: Support ...... 448 TRANSPORT ...... 443 Railway Stations ...... 447 Bus Services ...... 444 Topical Questions ...... 454 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Thursday 27 June 2013

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 9WS INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 18WS ERDF/ESF 2014-20...... 9WS Departmental Annual Report and Accounts...... 18WS National Minimum Wage...... 10WS JUSTICE...... 19WS EDUCATION...... 11WS Office for Judicial Complaints (Annual Report School Teachers’ Review Body (22nd Report)...... 11WS 2012-13) ...... 19WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 12WS Electricity Market Reform ...... 12WS TRANSPORT ...... 19WS Approved Driving Instructors...... 19WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 14WS TREASURY ...... 11WS Flood Insurance...... 14WS Welsh Funding...... 11WS Triennial Reviews...... 16WS

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 16WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 20WS Afghanistan (Monthly Progress Report) ...... 16WS Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Lithuania Presidency ...... 17WS Affairs Council ...... 20WS Social Fund (Annual Report 2012-13) ...... 21WS HEALTH...... 18WS Triennial Reviews...... 21WS Health Council...... 18WS Work Programme Official Statistics ...... 22WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 27 June 2013

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 349W CABINET OFFICE—continued Alternatives to Prosecution ...... 349W Death ...... 332W Animal Welfare: Prosecutions ...... 350W Mobile Phones: Cybercrime...... 333W Fraud: Prosecutions ...... 351W Unemployment ...... 333W Offences Against Children: Internet...... 351W Police: Wales ...... 351W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 334W RSPCA ...... 352W Buildings: Energy...... 334W Fire Extinguishers...... 334W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 360W Floods: Finance ...... 335W Apprentices...... 360W Landlords: Licensing ...... 335W Flexible Working: Carers ...... 360W Local Government Services: Per Capita Costs ...... 335W Greenwich University ...... 360W Misuse of Drugs Ministerial Group...... 336W Higher Education: Radicalism ...... 361W Working Neighbourhoods Fund ...... 336W Manufacturing Industries: Sports ...... 361W World War II: Genocide...... 337W Professional Organisations...... 362W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 353W Students: Loans ...... 362W Arts...... 353W UK Research Partnership Investment Fund...... 362W Arts: Curriculum...... 354W CABINET OFFICE...... 332W DEFENCE...... 352W Big Society Network ...... 332W Afghanistan ...... 352W Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE—continued HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 328W Defence: Expenditure...... 352W Parliamentary Tours ...... 328W Iraq...... 352W Telephone Switchboard...... 328W

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 359W INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Privy Council ...... 359W STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE ...... 328W Legal Costs ...... 328W EDUCATION...... 354W Class Sizes...... 354W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 377W Curriculum ...... 355W Developing Countries: Roads...... 377W Education ...... 355W Palestinians ...... 378W Educational Visits ...... 355W Sierra Leone...... 378W Foster Care ...... 356W Free Schools: Admissions ...... 356W JUSTICE...... 363W National Curriculum Tests...... 357W Legal Aid Scheme: Cumbria...... 363W Official Cars...... 357W Legal Costs ...... 363W Outdoor Education...... 358W Misuse of Drugs Ministerial Group...... 364W Schools: Standards...... 358W Prisoners on Remand...... 364W UN Committee on the Rights of the Child ...... 358W Prisoners: Public Consultation...... 365W Vocational Guidance: Engineering...... 359W Prisoners: Rehabilitation...... 365W Prisoners: Speech and Language Disorders...... 365W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 347W Tax Evasion ...... 367W Climate Change ...... 347W Verne Prison...... 368W Energy...... 347W Youth Custody...... 368W Green Deal Scheme...... 347W Sizewell B Power Station ...... 348W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 331W Social Enterprises...... 348W Grand Committees...... 331W World War II: Medals ...... 348W TRANSPORT ...... 325W A1...... 326W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL A14 ...... 325W AFFAIRS...... 331W Bus Services ...... 325W Hunting Act 2004...... 331W Motorways: Driving Offences ...... 326W Social Enterprises...... 332W Motorways: Speed Limits ...... 326W Network Rail ...... 327W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 378W Public Transport: Disabled Access ...... 325W Afghanistan ...... 378W Railway Stations ...... 326W Arms Trade...... 379W Railways: Shropshire...... 327W British Overseas Territories...... 379W Speed Limits: Driving Offences...... 327W Iran...... 379W Swindon-Kemble Railway Line...... 327W Saudi Arabia...... 380W Thameslink Railway Line...... 328W USA...... 381W Tractor Driving Licences...... 325W

HEALTH...... 340W TREASURY ...... 337W Accident and Emergency Departments: Greater Pay...... 337W London...... 340W PAYE...... 337W Alcoholic Drinks and Drugs: Rehabilitation...... 340W Tax Allowances: Cultural Heritage ...... 338W Ambulance Services: Corby ...... 341W Taxation: Business ...... 339W Bounty Services...... 341W Work Experience...... 339W Diabetes: Children ...... 341W Health Services: Greater London...... 341W WALES...... 352W Heart Diseases ...... 342W Official Engagements ...... 352W Hospitals...... 342W Hospitals: Parking ...... 343W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 367W Hospitals: Trafford...... 343W Atos Healthcare ...... 367W Independent Midwives UK ...... 343W Jobcentre Plus ...... 369W Jackie Holt...... 343W Jobseeker’s Allowance ...... 369W Ketamine ...... 344W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Dunbartonshire...... 370W Mental Health Services ...... 344W Low Pay...... 370W Misuse of Drugs Ministerial Group...... 344W New Businesses ...... 372W NHS: Drugs...... 344W New Enterprise Allowance...... 372W NHS: Equality ...... 345W Occupational Pensions...... 372W NHS: Negligence ...... 346W Social Security Benefits...... 373W NHS: Procurement ...... 346W Social Security Benefits: Greater London ...... 374W Whittington Hospital NHS Trust...... 346W Unemployment: West Midlands...... 375W Universal Credit...... 375W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 353W Universal Credit: Ashton Under Lyne ...... 376W Counter-terrorism ...... 353W Work Capability Assessment: Appeals ...... 376W Misuse of Drugs Ministerial Group...... 353W Work Programme: Clwyd...... 377W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

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CONTENTS

Thursday 27 June 2013

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 443] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Transport Leader of the House

Investing in Britain’s Future [Col. 465] Statement—(Danny Alexander)

Business of the House [Col. 493] Statement—(Mr Lansley)

Water [Col. 507] Bill presented, and read the First time

Backbench Business Legal Aid Reform [Col. 508] Motion—(Sarah Teather)—agreed to Multinational Companies and UK Corporation Tax [Col. 566] Motion—(Chris White)—agreed to

Petition [Col. 578]

Reserve Service Personnel [Col. 579] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Air Transport (Northern Ireland) [Col. 145WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Statements [Col. 9WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 325W] [see index inside back page]