Issue 193 November 2008 INTERVIEW The TALKERS magazine interview Network (TRN) CEO Mark Masters

ith turmoil on Wall Street and The TALKERS magazine interview with Mark massive layoffs in the radio mar- Masters was conducted by Kevin Casey. Wketplace, TALKERS magazine station customers and advertisers. went to one of the true entrepreneurs in this Now, I do believe that 2008 will be known industry, TRN’s CEO Mark Masters, for TALKERS: This year is almost over. What as the year that powerful syndicated programs insight and analysis. Ever the optimist, would you say is the most significant event began saving the jobs of hardworking GMs Masters believes that there is an advantage to that has occurred in talk radio? and PDs, and the year that talk stations in gen- every disadvantage and that an entrepreneur- eral found a safe harbor within which to sur- ial renaissance in radio is near at hand. MM: Although the election dominated our vive through the cash-saving power of barter Founded in 1993, Talk Radio Network is a on-air programming, we –– meaning talk syndication. juggernaut in long-form talk syndication, radio — are a business and with all that is hap- 2008 will also be known as the year that eclipsing all other syndicators in the launch and pening on Wall Street of late, I would say the weak syndicated programs began dying off in development of successful long-form syndicat- fact that there is such a tough market in gener- droves. This is because most weak, syndicat- ed radio talk programs –– an accomplishment al for radio has to be considered the most sig- ed talk shows are predictable and offer only due to what its CEO terms a “fearless entrepre- nificant factor facing us this year. And it has information without true analysis or entertain- neurial environment at TRN.” only just begun. ment value. In this sense, weak, syndicated In April of last year, Bear Stearns issued a shows are like flesh eating bacteria on their report that concluded TRN is the second largest TALKERS: So what are you doing about it? affiliated station’s life blood –– ratings and provider of nationally syndicated radio talk revenue. This new business environment will shows nationwide (behind Premiere Radio MM: TRN has a strong array of revenue- not tolerate those weak shows that have posed Networks), making TRN (according to the Bear enhancing and cost-saving solutions for sta- as successful syndicated talk shows but are Stearns report) larger than ABC Radio tions. We believe thoughtful innovation is the really more a form of corporate welfare –– Networks (ranked third) and then-CBS-con- key in hard times and we are focused on help- shows that are just there because a station trolled Westwood One (which was ranked ing our customers’ stations to aggressively group’s CEO or EVP thought he could create a fourth by the same report) for national long- innovate in finding the opportunities that real- successful show by putting it on his own sta- form talk radio programming. ly do exist in tough times. Bad economic times tions and make a star. Unfortunately, as we all TALKERS magazine recently caught up can actually be very profitable times for entre- now know, group executives don’t make stars, with Masters to get an overview of the indus- preneurs, and TRN really does help bring that radio audiences do. I have looked closely at try and his perspective and what lies ahead. out-of-the-box entrepreneurial thinking to our the top 75 markets, side-by-side, most every TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008 book, and there they are — dead syndicated more shows that have made it onto the TALK- launch: TRN’s brand reputation. shows — still on life support from guilty cor- ERS magazine top 10 list than our next three If I were to draw a comparison, then I porate parents, who are in denial about their competitors combined. To add an exclamation would have to say we at TRN are as careful in show’s lack of viability. Syndication works to this point, in April of last year, the then #1- building our brand in our little way as Pixar only if a show can create real viral unique ranked analyst for the radio sector on Wall was at building its reputation in overtaking audience. Street (Bear Stearns) conducted an analysis of Disney’s lock on animation or HBO was in its talk radio providers. Its conclusion was that pioneering record of being a magnet for TALKERS: What do you mean by viral for longform syndicated talk programming, attracting “best-in-breed” for talent in televi- unique audience? Talk Radio Network was the second largest sion. provider of talk programs by market share MM: Friends actively telling friends to listen. nationwide, ahead of ABC (ranked third) and TALKERS: So you are actually comparing 2009 and beyond will only be about shows Westwood One (ranked fourth), and second TRN to Pixar and HBO? that create referral-based audience. That is only to Premiere. To be sure, that report is a the TRN companies’ mission: To continue to point of pride. But we recognize it is also the MM: For our four networks, failure is not an build on our existing powerhouse lineup and equivalent of being the second tallest “pigmy” option. We look at the model of Pixar anima- to find and then launch new shows that turn because talk syndication is but a sub-niche of tion studios or HBO and we strive to emulate one listener into five listeners in a year. This is network radio. Still, it speaks to the meritoc- what they have done with their brands, but in the viral effect of powerful programming and racy at TRN and the true performance of our our own way, as it can relate to a network of few shows have the raw emotional and intel- programs. talk radio companies. This is not an accident, lectual range to do this. Merit-based programming provides both it is by design. TRN’s Michael Savage, TRN Enterprises’ stations and our network a “rocket effect” on Pixar’s visionary leaders, John Lasseter Laura Ingraham, TRN-FM’s Phil Hendrie, TRN top-end revenue growth. As an example of and Steve Jobs, started with “Toy Story.” At Enterprises’ Jerry Doyle, TRN-FM’s Mancow, this, if you average it out, the TRN companies first, people thought they were just lucky. TRN Entertainment’s Monica Crowley, and have had an average of 49% top-end revenue They thought the 3-D animation was the star TRN’s Rusty Humphries are shows that create growth each and every year for five years in a and they were just a one-hit wonder like so ratings spikes. These shows turn 1.0 share row. There simply is no other radio network many movie companies. But Jobs and dayparts into 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s all the way to dou- that can boast of that level of sustainable Lasseter were underestimated. In truth, “Toy ble digit shares –– all through the power of lis- growth. This growth is due to the powerhouse Story’s” 3-D animation was the gimmick. The tener referral. With rare exception, many of performance of great talent and the constant true power of “Toy Story” was in the writing, our competitors’ shows just don’t have that improvements we strive to make to each show the directing and the talent assembled by Jobs key ability. They don’t do anything but fill every year. and Lasseter. These men brilliantly knew that space with noise, and, as I just said, these types the writing and directing aspect of their talent are only there because one or two network TALKERS: What about your debt situation? acquisition strategy would not be credited at executives (who have pull within their radio Do you have one? first. So as Pixar cranked out hit after hit, the group’s corporate parent), not audiences, are 3-D animation gimmick of Pixar became syn- deciding that they know better than audiences. MM: Unlike many companies that have bor- onymous with great storytelling. But this is no longer sustainable. It’s over for rowed and borrowed to grow, TRN has had Jobs and Lasseter recognized that with one those shows by force of necessity. Merit is the ability to grow and launch shows from our great movie you are lucky. But when their sec- what wins from this point forward and that is own cash flow. We have also developed new, ond Pixar release –– “A Bug’s Life” –– was a what our shows have. TRN doesn’t own sta- innovative companies from our own cash flow hit also, suddenly Pixar’s success was not seen tions. Our shows are so good that they are such as NAC –– National Advertisement as a one-shot wonder but a culture of hit cre- there because of pure merit. For this reason, I Company, Inc., now America’s largest new ation. By their third hit movie, Pixar started to believe, this coming year will be the best year business development rep firm for nationally be seen as a leader in animation. By the fourth in the TRN companies’ history. syndicated talk radio programming; TRN hit Pixar was perceived as the leader and by Syndications, Inc.; and Digital Media the sixth hit, the Pixar reputation was so pow- TALKERS: In these recessionary times for Entertainment, Inc., a multi-faceted Internet erful that it was worth more than $7 billion to radio in general, how is TRN doing? entertainment/content company, among oth- Disney. Jobs was able to oust Michael Eisner ers. TRN simply can’t afford to launch shows from power and put Lasseter in charge of both MM: Right after the first really bad week on that don’t work because, beyond the fact that Pixar and Disney animation. Not bad for two Wall Street, we received more calls in those each show must pay its own freight, there is a underestimated guys who understood the five days from groups looking for merit-based more vital issue at stake upon every show power of, 1) talent first and, 2) constantly syndicated programs than in the previous two rolling out hit after hit as a result of getting the months combined. This is because as radio right talent to make those hits. groups are finally being faced with having to Now, Jobs and Lasseter are busy rejuvenat- terminate more of their live-and-local shows, ing Disney’s 2-D animation division because and know they must move to a syndicated they know that their 3-D animation was show, they need “best-in-breed” –– nothing always a gimmick –– that the true power of less will do. And, not being owned by a radio Pixar and Disney is all about brilliant talent group, our shows must perform like thor- who know how to tell a compelling story with oughbred race horses –– and they do. strong emotional range chock-full of brilliant- The best example I can give of this reality ly timed humor. What you get is a hit, regard- is simply the fact that since our inception, less of the animation use, whether it’s 2-D or 3-D. TRN has launched, developed and re-built These same principles apply to radio, and TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008

TRN in particular. Like Pixar, the TRN strate- believe TRN has merit-based programming tiser referral to the station free of charge. The gy relies on great talent who know how to be available that is strong enough to replace tipping point local advertiser referral initiative brilliant, unpredictable, funny, compelling expensive, beloved, local shows that probably utilizes a series of activation strategies through and smart –– backlighting absurdity using will be gone soon. which our hosts will: absurdity. They crystallize the fog of their audiences’ thinking into jaw-dropping clarity TALKERS: We’ve noticed that you have been 1) activate each affiliate’s loyal listeners by that validates what the listeners always knew running spots by your hosts promoting local asking their audiences, who own businesses, but couldn’t put in words themselves, all the sales for your affiliates. Obviously you are that are already part of the show’s audience to while making them laugh. In short, these are doing more to help the stations financially support the local station affiliate through the qualities that, just as Pixar uses to make than just provide good, inexpensive pro- advertising on it. movies which create giant referral-based gramming. viewership at the box office, TRN uses to cre- 2) help activate their show’s loyal listeners to ate referral-based radio listenership that MM: First and foremost, our hosts have an do business with each local station’s advertis- brings ratings spikes –– “tent poles” of audi- unusually strong bond with their audience. It ers by asking them to do so, and in so doing, ences. They, in turn, collateralize the rest of is this bond that we are actually putting to rewarding those advertisers for supporting our affiliated stations’ line-ups with audience. work for our stations over the next year. Our the shows they love. I will tell you that I believe outside of Rush hosts will go out and sell their audience on the and a handful of other greats at our competi- concept of that audience buying ads on our 3) eliminate advertiser churn because the tors, TRN’s shows are the ones that have done affiliated stations –– drawing local advertisers folks who respond to the national campaign this consistently. And it is that consistency to our stations out of the bond of loyalty that and toll-free call center are those who are that our station customers stopped betting exists between host and listener. This will already most compatible with the station and against after –– like Pixar –– we launched our increase sales at each affiliate and enhance rev- its shows because they are drawn from the third and fourth hits. We are working on our enues. The audience bond with a beloved host actual audiences of our affiliate’s shows. eighth now. is where it all begins for the station and it ends These advertisers are most likely to be patient in our stations having more local advertisers. and supportive enough to renew. This elimi- TALKERS: They say that the present finan- Unless a network cares about the profit nates advertiser churn. cial crisis is unparalleled –– at least in mod- margin of their station affiliates as job #1, net- ern history; as a student of history do you see works will ultimately fail. That is why all the any parallels to the current situation from TRN companies’ network hosts are participat- “2008 is 1987 all over again. which we can draw insight? ing in strategic efforts on multiple levels across most every show to activate their loyal audi- But for syndication, it will be MM: This economic environment is replicat- ence to advertise locally on each of our station twice as good this time ing that of the year 1987 –– the year modern affiliates. We call these the TRN companies’ talk syndication was born with Rush and the tipping point initiatives. around because this time, last year the stock market collapsed. As in talk syndication will save both 1987, what stations need most now is revenue. TALKERS: Okay tell us more. This is very With most budgets having already been interesting. the AM and FM bands.” slashed to the bone over the last five years, the only real places left to cut are local talk show MM: The first step, as I just mentioned, is uti- hosts, their producers and call screeners. lizing the powerful bond that our hosts have TALKERS: Explain how you are using the Thus, powerful, syndicated, barter talk pro- with their audience, and then getting the lis- term “churn?” grams are the only real solution to filling the tener involved as part of the process to help voids left behind at stations due to these nec- the station thrive. This is an effort unlike any MM: Churn is a result of replacing test adver- essary cuts. And, as in 1987, syndication will other network has attempted. This is best tiser after test advertiser that are initially thrive on a new, unprecedented level. 2008 is exemplified by commercials read by our hosts incompatible with the audience and won’t 1987 all over again. But for syndication, it will making the case that the local station must be give an ad campaign enough time to work. be twice as good this time around because this rewarded for airing the shows they love –– that Our tipping point effort helps eliminate adver- time, talk syndication will save both the AM freedom of speech is not free and must be sup- tiser churn. It helps to solidify our host and and FM bands. AMs, by replacing costly local ported with ad dollars. Stations are encour- entire station’s affinity group into a communi- shows and FMs by saving them from the slow aged to air these commercials in their local ty of people who are doing business with each death that is music radio. unsold avails as often as they have unsold other and thus, the station not only gets the In the last six weeks we have seen a giant inventory. TALKERS magazine readers can lis- best programming, but enhanced revenue as economic tsunami hit the world markets. ten to 15 different examples of these commer- well. Radio groups were already dealing with a cials by logging onto www.sponsorthissta- Now, if you are in business, you know a tough environment before the stock market tion.com. tipping point is the point at which, all things debacle. Now, many radio groups’ stocks are The next step of this is a national call center being equal, there is something that tips you to off 90% to as much as 99.7% from their former managed through our wholly-owned new do business with one guy over the other. For highs. These groups must now throw off the business development rep firm, NAC mini-vans, the tipping point 10 years ago was maximum amount of free cash flow that they (National Advertisement Company, Inc.), cup holders. Whoever had the most cup hold- can and they have no choice but to cut yet where local advertisers’ leads, desiring to ers won. Then it was built-in DVD players. again. And in order to do that they are turning advertise on our affiliates, are collected, Think about it: A $299 item tipping a $30,000 to syndication to solve two problems at once: tracked and then processed back to our affiliate purchasing decision. But each product or serv- lowering costs while increasing quality. I department to then be transferred as an adver- ice has to have a slight advantage. That’s the TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008 tipping point. star salespeople. This might sound like an draw at a certain date. Top producers, on the For our affiliates, getting advertisers to expense at first blush, but it is not. Because other hand, won’t worry about the time win- start with their stations and then to renew, great salespeople are not only ultimately free, dow for the draw, because they believe in begins with the host’s bond with his or her they go on to bring you $9 for every $1 you themselves and talk radio. audience and our hosts using that powerful pay them. As time goes by, constantly recruiting new emotional bond to get the local advertiser to Thus, once a talk station’s weekday line- sales people as a process eliminates the need “tip” in the station’s direction with their ad up is mostly syndicated, there is one key area to nurse weak sales people. They will work dollars. Through strong, consistent repetition for which we suggest our affiliates utilize hard because they know that the GM or GSM of host spots (among other mentions), our those cash savings: the expansion of their local is busy finding their replacement every day if hosts can penetrate most of the inattention of sales force. they don’t. Thus, constant, disciplined recruit- their audience. That requires local sponsors to At TRN, we advise our GMs and GSMs to ing really does solve all revenue, management step up and reward the station with their ad spend at least a third to 40% of their time and retention problems at the same time. dollars for having the courage to carry our interviewing new recruits for their sales Recruiting can slow down to a drip when the shows and other shows they love on our local department. Beyond actively recruiting from sales team consists of only top notch “eagles” affiliates. Our hosts also drill in the fact that competitors –– local newspapers and TV –– that compete to outdo each other for fun and the good news is, according to research proj- we also suggest targeting four additional profit. Eagles fly with eagles, ducks fly with ects conducted by TALKERS magazine and groups for recruitment: 1) teachers on summer ducks. At TRN, we have something called “TRN other reliable sources, talk radio generates two recess, 2) nurses, 3) former military, 4) off-duty University.” One of the programs we will be to three times the response to ads placed in police officers. Why these groups? Because offering in mid-2009 is how to manage and powerful talk programs than those same dol- each one has something in common. They are upgrade your sales force through the use of lars spent on similar sized music audiences, normally good communicators. They can strategies such as these. which are generally passive. speak in an authoritative voice when they In this way, beloved hosts who have a believe in something and they usually have TALKERS: Will this educational program powerful bond with their audience are active- high standards of integrity and ethics. focus exclusively on sales? ly using that bond to help our affiliated sta- At TRN, we believe the only way to win in tions on the revenue side in these tough times. a bad economy is to sell into it. This is the MM: No. Other “TRN University” programs That bond is the equivalent of the extra cup equivalent of applying a surge strategy to the will be on coaching new or weekend hosts on holders in mini-vans or the DVD player that sales department –– like General Petraeus has the structural architecture and formatics of tipped the auto sale. In our case, we aim to successfully accomplished in Iraq. With that doing talk radio. “TRN University” will offer achieve a tipping point effect that moves the surge, the same principles ring true when you programs for training talk radio producers. audience on a visceral level to shift their local bring in top-flight sales people. Perhaps liter- Stay tuned for dates for “TRN University” ad budgets from newspapers or from TV to ally doubling the sales department by bring- programs. our station affiliates and then stick with it. ing in new recruits constantly and then man- Because with talk radio, the medium is the aging their efforts by replacing the weakest message. And talk radio moves advertiser 25% every 60 to 90 days. The end result of this “Every hour spent recruiting products in a much more powerful way than is a lot more pressure on rate due to more newspapers, TV or music radio. inventory being sold because you have twice a deep bench for your sales Let me backlight this point even further by as many salespeople working on a finite department of top producers is referring to a project I conducted a few years amount of inventory. Rates rise as inventory back. At that time, in America’s top-20-rated diminishes, due to the surge. equal to 20 hours of manag- markets, news and news/talk radio stations ing weak salespeople.” were ranked first, second or third in revenue TALKERS: What about commissions? in 16 of the top 20 markets while they aver- aged only eighth through fifteenth in ratings MM: Part-timers can be commission only, TALKERS: To your great credit, TRN has rank for Persons 25-54. So revenue rank while full-timers have a short time window never shied away from developing and pro- trumps ratings rank any time –– but especial- where the cash draw against commission moting women in political talk –– now with ly now. Talk stations can only achieve this diminishes to nothing over whatever time Laura Ingraham and Monica Crowley, is this high level of revenue performance if they are frame that is practical. Truth be told, nation- a peek at the successful evolution of talk? moving products for their advertisers on a wide, it is a well-known fact that 20% of the powerful level –– and they are. salespeople sell 80% of the inventory, while MM: We are very proud to have the top 80% usually sell only 20% of the inventory. So women issues-oriented talk show hosts in the TALKERS: We hear stations complaining if the emphasis can be put on targeted recruit- country. The “Palin Effect” has really cata- that it is hard to find good salespeople. ing of both existing sales reps from newspa- pulted all four of our top women talkers to Many out there are not even covering their per, cable, etc., and the four new groups I men- new heights. Just this last month, Laura draws. Do you offer any advice or help to tioned, stations can start to increase their odds Ingraham added 20 new Monday-through- local stations in this regard? of bringing in superstar salespeople –– or Friday affiliates –– a great number of which “eagles” –– and this, in turn, allows a GM or are the coveted flagship stations of their MM: We try to work with our stations in a GSM to eliminate the non-producers –– the group; such as Entercom’s WRKO, variety of innovative ways to increase their “ducks.” Every hour spent recruiting a deep Boston; Citadel’s WBAP, which is said revenue. One of the biggest items on our bench for your sales department of top pro- by the Citadel folks to be the most powerful agenda is to help our stations to realize they ducers is equal to 20 hours of managing weak daytime AM signal in the U.S. and reaches must sell hard into a recession. The best way sales people. The motivationally impaired upwards of 25 states at night; Fisher to accomplish that is through recruiting super- should fire themselves through losing their Broadcasting’s flagship talker KVI, ; TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008

Mt. Wilson Broadcasting’s on Westwood One when she came to TRN that shifted her world views to what they are 20,000 watt 1260/540 AM Enterprises. We moved her to mid-mornings, now. Tammy is a true maverick, intellectually simulcast in L.A.; along and with our team and Laura’s talent, the honest, secure in the fact “she knows that she with 16 other Monday- show grew some 20-fold after re-launching knows,” because she has been down that other through-Friday stations, with us in L.A. and in New York on WABC. road and has come back with a deep under- many of which are also the Now in 43 of the top 50 markets, and 83 of the standing that shows in her kind confidence. flagship stations of their top 100, Laura is the uncontested number one Tammy is a rare person who can knock out the groups. show in her daypart nationwide and the fifth biggest bully, then pick him up, dust him off Laura Monica Crowley like- largest show in the U.S. overall. From WABC, and make him a friend. Tammy Bruce is bril- Ingraham wise has been catapulted New York to WRKO, Boston to WBAP, Dallas liant, funny and unpredictable. into weekday syndication as a result of her and 320 other stations from coast to coast, So, we woke up one day, and, as it turns out, stellar performance nationwide. Monica’s Laura is a guiding light of smart analysis, hip we had, across the TRN companies, amassed three audiences spoke to PDs and we listened to wit and wisdom. She is a firebrand who of the best female talkers in the business. Then them. This is the way stars are made. Monica clerked for Supreme Court Judge Clarence Sarah Palin comes along and electrifies the female is now syndicated live, 3:00 pm to 6:00 pm ET, Thomas, was a speechwriter in the Reagan base of conservative news/talk radio in a way that Monday through Friday, White House, is a two-time New York Times is simply stunning. and is growing fast as a best-selling author, and was named in the top In composite, across several of our net- perfect “tag team” with the 10 most influential conservatives in America works, we now have nine hours a day of the likes of Laura Ingraham by the Times of London. Laura is also the desig- strongest women issues-oriented talkers in the and Tammy Bruce for up to nated fill-in for Bill O’Reilly on the business –– a women’s network that works nine hours a day of week- Channel and separately appears as a weekly and is powerful. And we didn’t plan it that day issues-oriented talk from Fox contributor on “The O’Reilly Factor.” way, but there it is. America’s most influential Monica Crowley’s rise in national promi- women talk radio hosts. Monica nence is no less impressive. She worked as TALKERS: But what you described is only Darla Shine is also doing Crowley President Nixon’s foreign policy aide for four geared to the conservative side of the for- some impressive things on our weekends. years in the early 1990s and wrote two best- mat…granted, it is the bigger side at the selling books about her experiences with moment. But what about women who are TALKERS: You used the phrase, the “Palin Nixon. Monica holds a Ph.D. from Columbia not hard-line right wingers? Effect.” What do you mean by that? University, has worked as an anchor for sever- al news and opinion shows for NBC and NBC- MM: Good point and believe me we are think- MM: Most of the disposable income in controlled networks, including NBC’s early ing about it. Without getting ahead of myself America is controlled by women. With Sarah “Today Show” for two years, before launching here, this is also the way we plan to roll out a Palin electrifying the base of conservative into syndication with such affiliations as full slate of progressive talkers, one big hit at a news/talk radio and bringing in women lis- WABC, New York; WTKK, Boston; KPAM, time, until there is an entire lineup. teners, stations that have two or three women Portland; WTNT, Washington, DC; along with in their weekday lineup are in a strong posi- another 102 stations under her belt. Monica is TALKERS: You mentioned earlier that you tion to receive the key benefits of the startling also a permanent panelist on “The foresee talk replacing music on FM in the groundswell among “activated,” and now McLaughlin Group” and a news analyst for the very near future. How are you planning to motivated, women. This has become known Fox News Channel. Monica’s new Monday take advantage of that? as the “Palin Effect.” through Friday East Coast afternoon drive One great female talker on a station is a time provides a powerful female alternative, to MM: More than 75% of America’s radio audi- good start, but from an ad agency perspective, counterprogram existing talkers in every mar- ence is waiting for talk on the FM dial and the two is a culture –– a culture that local agencies ket. Monica resonates with common sense on time is now. TRN-FM was created to focus on love. With Laura Ingraham as the top female a level that is rare, doing it all in a way that is the simple reality that there is little to no future political talker in the country, and Monica hip, witty, smart and feminine. Monica is bril- for FM radio stations in music. Music is now a Crowley live in afternoon drive, stations such liant and has tremendous emotional and intel- commodity available every- as Red Zebra’s WTNT, 570 AM in Washington, lectual range. I predict that Monica will be a where, commercial free, on DC are quickly recognizing that women are true breakout star in afternoon drive. your iPod or cell phone. A the true power behind spending –– both on Tammy Bruce, once the president of music radio station just can’t the home front as the primary consumers and N.O.W. in L.A., a proud feminist and openly compete with that. So let’s as buyers at the agency level. Smart stations gay, is one of the strongest proponents of step back from that truth for are capitalizing on this fact. independent conservatism and defends a minute, stick a pin in that Great talk hosts attract massive audiences religious conservatives daily from those on point and consider the because of who they are, what they stand for, the extreme left who have insanity of the following: Erich the sheer gravity of their presence and, ulti- hijacked both the legitimate Imagine a top 10 market. It “Mancow” mately, their lovability. With that said, the feminist movement and has five urban music sta- Muller women of the TRN networks are just terrific, those on the extreme left tions, five rock stations and so on. Yet talk sta- rare powerhouse players who truly bring who purport to represent tions are statistically the top revenue generators something special to the issues-oriented talk the gay community. In in most of the top markets. Besides that, unlike game. We have been blessed to capture that her landmark book, The music stations, where the group Green Day can magic in a nine-hour block that I believe is New Thought Police, Tammy be heard on most all of the five rock stations –– unmatched anywhere in national syndication. uncovers what brought her Tammy meaning no exclusivity of content –– talk pro- Amazingly, Laura Ingraham was on nights to the startling realizations Bruce grams grant an FM station exclusivity for talk TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008 shows. You can’t get the same talk show on four from being the Mancow of 19 years ago to Erich For FM stations that want to go full-time 24/7 other places on the dial in the same market like “Mancow” Muller of today shows the night- talk, the Hendrie/Mancow overnight/morn- you can with music. Then combine that exclu- and-day difference. To underscore the point, ing drive combo is a rock-solid foundation of sivity advantage of talk programming with the Citadel’s legendary PD, Jack Swanson of KGO talk superstars that they can build a station audience bond that comes with what I call the and KSFO, San Francisco, has called Mancow upon –– and we will be there to help. “monopoly of personality” and 30% more com- the “next Rush Limbaugh” and amazingly, just mercials per hour than a music format provides, a few days ago, Citadel’s WLS, presi- TALKERS: How is the rest of the TRN stable and, presto, it becomes very clear that several dent/GM Mike Fowler independently doing? FM stations in each market will be forced, echoed Swanson’s comment. Fowler just through economic circumstances, to go talk due hired Mancow for a mid-morning slot on the MM: Michael Savage, whether you love him to talk radio’s sheer income-generating power. heritage Chicago station and told the Chicago or hate him, is brilliant and hilarious. I do Now add two more key elements: First, talk Tribune, “It’s going to bring a lot of energy to credit Michael Savage for helping me re- programs have engaged audiences and, as a the station. It’s a younger version of Rush with launch TRN and independ- result, talk formats move products –– as some Roe Conn thrown in.” Conn is WLS’ suc- ent syndication in 1999 Michael Harrison has pointed out over the cessful afternoon drive host. after we sold TRN and its years, at two to three times the rate of the same A while back I had finally convinced leg- subsidiary, CBC/Art Bell, sized music audience. In fact, ads airing in talk endary talk consultant Greg Moceri to work to Premiere and then programs have much greater response for the with Mancow. Greg’s reaction was immediate bought it back. After we hit advertiser’s dollar which means greater return and powerful. He was blown away by what 150 stations with Savage, on investment, which then results in renewals Mancow’s show had evolved into. Greg’s sage Sean Hannity, a close on ad contracts. And the clincher: more than advice has advanced Mancow to the next and friend, called me and kind- Michael 75% of America’s listening audience is already final level of the best of both worlds: the edgy ly told me that, perhaps I Savage on the FM band and most are a younger, more humor and pop culture explosion and sensibil- wasn’t crazy after all for syndicating valuable demo than that on the AM band. If ities of FM, sprinkled with the passionate dis- Savage and that in his mind, I had proven you stand back from these course of issues-oriented AM talk. independent syndication could thrive in a truths, you start to realize Mancow’s show is the perfect syndicated post-consolidation world. However, when I that talk radio has just powerhouse replacement for FM stations that initially called Sean in 1999 to tell him that I begun because it barely now must cut their expensive morning shows. had just signed Savage, Sean told me that I exists on FM now. But a In the last decade, Mancow’s morning show had made a mistake. He said no one, includ- year from now there will be has been the top morning drive performer in ing him, would ever be syndicated because more talk stations on the FM his daypart in three of the top ten markets, in consolidation meant the end of independent band than there will be qual- three different regions of the U.S. –– West syndication. But now he was ready to go with ity programs available to be Phil Coast, Midwest, East. Now add to that his me, if he was allowed to do so. But then- distributed by them. For Hendrie evolution since September 11, 2001 and sta- WABC programmer Phil Boyce –– a legendary this reason, TRN-FM was created; right now tions have an entertainment juggernaut in talk radio PD who recently joined TRN as pres- TRN-FM consists of two of the greatest innova- morning drive as a syndicated option to ident in charge of programming –– convinced tive talents in all of radio, Erich “Mancow” anchor their day as the morning drive show ABC to match my offer for Sean, which they Muller and the legendary Phil Hendrie. on a music or a talk station. did. But Hannity won in any event, because TRN-FM’s second show is “The Phil TRN’s breakthrough success with Savage TALKERS: The FM talk movement seems to Hendrie Show.” Phil Hendrie is an entertain- made the case, both to Sean and obviously to be starting with morning drive, a trend that ment legend. What else can be said? After join- ABC, that talk syndication could work in a goes back to … ing TRN last year, team TRN has been able to post-consolidated landscape. I remember clear Phil’s show in 17 of the top 25 markets. telling Phil Boyce, “Either you syndicate Sean MM: When analyzing where the bulk of FM The beauty of Phil’s show is that FM stations or I must, but don’t let Premiere get him.” stations’ revenue is, it becomes quickly appar- testing the waters for talk can put their toe in Well, ABC matched and after he called me to ent that between 40 to 60% of many successful the water with talk at night with “The Phil tell me that sad fact, we were both shocked. FM stations’ revenue impact revolves around its Hendrie Show” and expand from there. At But I guess ABC did not want me having both morning drive show. We looked at around 400 first, our strategy for music stations was for of their major talents, so they courageously FM personalities over five years and the really them to put Phil on live 10:00 pm to 1:00 am stepped up to the plate. talented ones were usually either brilliant, high- PT, then put a short best of re-feed of Phil in Hannity was launched by ABC into syndi- ly unstable, self-destructive nut jobs, or they the middle of the night that backs right up to cation September 10, 2001 –– the day before were stable milquetoast. But finally we got the Mancow’s morning drive show. Those folks September 11. God bless him. He’s talented, best of both worlds in Erich “Mancow” Muller. that fall asleep listening to the brilliant satire brilliant and blessed. Hannity is still my Mancow is one of the most talented morning and humor of the very independent libertari- friend and the only one that got away. But he show hosts to ever grace the airwaves and he is an Phil Hendrie will wake up listening to the is surely there because Savage provided the a decent, stable businessman, off the air. He is hilarious libertarian pop culture explosion of case for him. They might hate hearing this, truly a person you can invest in, believe in and entertainment and issues with Mancow for a but every show since owes Savage a certain he won’t let you down. As was the case of Jerry one-two punch of brilliant overnight program- debt of gratitude for proving that syndication Seinfeld, who certain NBC executives stuck ming leading straight into brilliant morning still worked after consolidation changed radio with for 18 long months until he broke out drive programming. in the late 1990s. going on to become the biggest TV show on In this way, FM music stations can run NBC, Mancow has evolved to such a point that up to 10 hours per day of talk, 14 hours of TALKERS: With the nightmare on Wall I believe he will be the Seinfeld equivalent on music and start the transition to talk as an Street, Jerry Doyle’s time spent working in radio. His time is now. His personal evolution evolution rather than through a revolution. the financial sector seems to be serving him TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008 well. It seems Jerry was ahead of the curve of courage that sets Humphries apart. He going unsold or is being bonused away on the on this. spent a full week with “buy two minutes, get one minute free” prem- General Petraeus, has per- ise that struggling salespeople often offer. So MM: Jerry Doyle was right about the Wall sonally been invited to and what we suggest is to take the 33% of that Street debacle long before anyone else. He saw gone with the Supreme hourly inventory stations are probably not sell- what was coming and how it would affect pol- Allied Commander of ing or are simply bonusing away and creating itics in a way that no one else has or even could NATO to Afghanistan, bad habits in the form of expectations of free do. As far back as November of 2007 I remem- slept on the ground night minutes from their advertisers, not to mention ber getting calls from Jerry’s producers about after night on a special trip bad habits in their sales reps and instead, turn how Jerry was spending more and more time to the Sudan to get the Rusty that inventory into “talent dollars” by trading on an impending nightmare on Wall Street. truth about one of the Humphries away those minutes to TRN in return for “best- This producer didn’t see the connection that greatest modern tragedies of this century –– in-breed” talk programming. This has several Wall Street would end up having with politics. Sudan’s slave trade. He has been to GITMO immediate wonderful benefits for the GM, PD Jerry spent 11 long years on Wall Street at three times and Israel more than that. The list and GSM. Drexel, Burnham, Lambert, and Prudential as goes on and on but Rusty truly does bring you By reducing the available amount of an investment banker, and was spot on in con- tomorrow’s news tonight and is the most saleable avails from 15 minutes per hour to 10 necting most all the dots powerful live syndicated show in his daypart minutes per hour, all “buy two minutes, get eight months before anyone nationwide. one free” giveaways and bonusing of spots are else was even getting a stopped dead in their tracks and rate integrity whiff of it publicly. I TALKERS: In spite of your lineup’s quality can start to be rebuilt on a real supply and believe Jerry is a superstar and achievements, I’m sure that many people demand basis. After all, too much supply of in the making, having reading this will disagree with you even to inventory means the floor falls out of your amassed some 230 affiliate the point of being horrified about stations spot rate. Thus, by taking five minutes per stations. This guy was also being better off with syndicated program- hour off the table, the supply of available min- a jet pilot, did 12 years as a Jerry ming over local hosts across the board. utes decreases and the rate of the remaining TV star including six of Doyle minutes correspondingly increases. those on the Emmy Award-winning Sci-Fi TV MM: The TRN companies’ strategy is to fully Second, after the unsold five minutes have show “Babylon 5” –– there are still over engage our GMs, PDs and GSMs in helping been traded to a syndicator (hopefully TRN) for 165,000 fan websites for him from that time. them to be as proactive as possible in both superior programming, the underperforming But despite his Hollywood background, increasing income and lowering costs at their or too costly local show host, producer and call Jerry’s raw intellectual and emotional horse- stations while increasing programming quali- screener’s costs can be eliminated. This cost power allows him to pull share numbers in the ty, particularly in this economic environment. saving is far more than you might think at first 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s, 7s and more on air because he is Please bear in mind, that what I’m going to glance because our GM/PD/GSM team is pay- the real deal. He ran for Congress on his own say addresses only eliminating local shows ing the local host with dollars net of local dime in 2000 and lost. “Outed” as an inde- that are either too costly or not performing. agency and station sales commission fees pendent conservative in Hollywood, he But a station may still be better off with an which require many more gross dollars to be sought out talk radio and has since risen to be affordable local show that is performing rather generated to pay the local host/producer team. ranked eighth largest talk show in the U.S.* If than having a tepidly weak syndicated show. Plus, there are additional savings from the I owned 400 stations I would have him on employer side of expenses of payroll, etcetera. every one, but since I own no stations I am Third, we then encourage our happy with 230 and am watching him grow “In fact, ads airing in talk pro- GM/PD/GSM teams to use their weekends as on merit. Not cram down, but merit alone. grams have much greater a place to start developing new local talk tal- ent in lieu of selling that time in blocks to TALKERS: Even though foreign policy has response for the advertiser’s infomercials. My strategy has the same or taken a backseat to the economy, it seems dollar which means greater greater revenue opportunities for stations as Rusty Humphries has done everything that selling time to infomercials but I think it is he can to own the Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan return on investment, which more strategic. conflicts and Homeland Security. Are you then results in renewals on ad Going back to recruiting as an answer to going to allow him to continue the level of all problems on the sales front, PDs can apply risk that he has taken as of late? contracts.” this same thinking to their weekends by recruiting new hosts –– and supplemental rev- MM: Rusty Humphries is on over 200 stations This is achieved through proactively replacing enue as a side effect –– from their local com- nationwide and ranked ninth largest show in costly local shows that are not stellar perform- munity on a revenue-share basis. This is how the U.S.* While he is live 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm ers or that are just too costly with “best-in- it works: Local high-profile businesspeople, PT, Rusty is famous for his enormous natural breed” powerhouse syndicated shows. When I church leaders, service providers or just plain entertainment ability –– he has drawn crowds say this can and should be a proactive process, old highly connected folks are approached by of as many as 7,000 to his events in Reno. But what is really happening is that the station the PD for an opportunity to do a weekend he is now most well-known for his literal own- GM/PD/GSM team is creating a win-win-win show coached by the PD. The deal is there is a ership of foreign affairs and Homeland for themselves, the station and the rate integri- time window for the host to get up to snuff and Security. Almost losing his head to the Al- ty of the station’s inventory. Here’s how it an opportunity to perhaps even go weekday Aqsa Martyrs Brigade to get an inside inter- works: In a weak economy –– as existed in 1987 locally, someday, if the weekend farm team can- view with the top terrorists operating on the and exists today –– perhaps five minutes per didate can achieve certain milestones like, A) West Bank in Israel is just one of the examples hour of a station’s costly local show may be take direction and coaching on how to do TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008 radio, B) sell all the spots in their show to indi- the Right.com,” to name but a few. This proba- and adds value to what they are doing. You viduals they know for full rate card at 100% bly will appear by the end of the first quarter of will see this come to full bloom in 2009. sellout, within 90 days of launch, C) the week- 2009. Within three years, over 50% of what we end host then is paid 50% of all the proceeds do will be creating web content. Specifically, we TALKERS: Exactly how do you plan to they bring in for hosting the show and selling will be in the broadband/audio/TV business, achieve this? the ads. The station retains 50% of the pro- but not in the way others are doing it. ceeds at full rate-card rates. MM: A radio network’s website and hosts’ This strategy allows our PD, beleaguered TALKERS: As you know, TALKERS maga- sites just happen to be the most natural dot- by market conditions, into having to fire his zine has been very aggressive in forecasting com entities imaginable. Strong host and costly local weekday hosts, to recruit and the coming emergence of the “media station” audio/visual network websites are almost a develop an entire local farm team at no cost as a kind of web-based super platform for necessary by-product of what a syndicated outside of board ops. He’ll not only have a talk radio and its newly acquired assets of radio network talk show already does. Robust team developing on the weekend, but because video, graphics and text. What do you think web traffic for each show is a cost-free side the condition of getting the show is based on about the web, long term? effect of each show’s natural function in the them each finding their own sponsors, the TRN model. From an advertiser’s standpoint, weekend starts to become a huge profit center MM: TRN believes that the true power of the a link inside TRN’s local syndicated website or that the PD can get direct credit for. web does not lie within, but rather outside, the national website will be a wonderful added With this strategy, something else wonder- web. The real power of the web lies within the benefit of a buy. From a listener’s standpoint, ful happens. The station’s weekends become realm of the web driver, meaning old media. TRN’s website is not only a doorway to their transformed into live and local radio that is Whatever can bring top-of-mind awareness to favorite radio host’s virtual community, with very profitable for the station and includes the a website, either local or national on a consis- visuals of show content being discussed, but active interest of the sphere of influence of tent and highly repetitious basis, ultimately also a place to watch network shows via tele- every local host recruited. If the weekend holds the key to a site’s traffic and value. vised simulcasts or to watch other proprietary, hosts are really good at selling their weekend Obviously, most web-based companies must unique video content, blogs and to link to local show, they can also be offered the opportunity pay a premium for this level of promotion if or network advertisers via links placed in the to turn that skill on selling the weekday lineup they utilize the reach of television or radio. local station’s syndicated site, network show as well under the standard commission struc- But what if an audio/visual broadband web sites or the main network site. TRN’s plan ture for weekday salespeople –– but this is media company whose aim was to become a converts the audience loyalty that our hosts commission only and, once again, costs noth- worldwide broadband “superstation” was enjoy into massive usage of our syndicated ing. actually a division of an “old media” radio stations’ websites, which is a part of the network? An old media web driver carrying “superstation.” TALKERS: What are your plans for the the next generation of broadband TV and As proven previously on many of growth of the Internet? You mentioned a audio within it? Nationally syndicated talk America’s largest syndicated shows’ websites, new division called Digital Media radio programming has the time and power to the intimate relationship between talk radio Entertainment, Inc., what is that all about? drive traffic to websites for pennies on the dol- hosts and their audiences drives listeners to lar compared to TV and print. websites on a benefit-to-cost ratio like no other MM: Well, I can say that outside of growing TRN, Digital Media Entertainment, and its medium can. Many radio programs utilize a our syndication business, there are two key websites will not only capitalize on this princi- content-based website to show its audience strategies we have been focused on that will ple for its station affiliates’ profitability and videos, pictures and other information on the start rolling out in the next year. Those are our the network’s own advertisers, but more subjects being discussed on the show. When a series of web companion initiatives and inno- importantly will promote its syndicated sta- subject discussed has a visual element, these vative journalism. tion/master site through all of its shows in a visuals are simply posted on the show’s site variety of ways as a natural side effect of each and the listeners’ interests drive them to the giant show’s design and format. Our plan is site in massive numbers. Wanting to see the “Whatever can bring top-of- to use the power of our networks, with as visuals of show content being discussed is a many audience-loyal shows as possible, as a natural side benefit of talk radio. It also hap- mind awareness to a website, vehicle to carry and transport a supplemental pens to be a free by-product –– a dot-com either local or national on a online community of listeners and viewers to dream come true. a global audio/video interactive “supersta- consistent and highly repeti- tion.” That will be the dot-com company TALKERS: Does this concept only apply to tious basis, ultimately holds within talkradionetwork.com, Digital Media news/talk radio? the key to a site’s traffic and Entertainment, Inc., and its subsidiaries. The radio network and its syndicated MM: It matters not whether the host is conser- value.” radio shows become a transport vehicle for vative or liberal or believes in the paranormal. what ultimately will be a worldwide broad- It does matter, however, that the host passion- band multi-media giant in the online universe. ately believes in something and is sincere First, I will stick my neck out and talk about In such a universe, every radio show can ulti- about it. Most of all, the host must be truly tal- our Internet initiatives by saying that we will be mately be simulcast as video, and thus become ented and understand that talk radio, in the providing our station customers a product line a TV show –– a TV show that is bathed in an end, is entertainment driven and not agenda of syndicated web products that they can actu- information-rich environment that is interac- driven even though audiences bond with the ally monetize. TRN is also involved in creat- tive and designed for the broadband universe. sincere and passionate beliefs of a host. Rush ing a series of broadband comedy channels, All of this ties back into our affiliate stations’ Limbaugh is an excellent example of an enter- such as, “Laugh at the Left.com” and “Laugh at participation that is both profitable for them tainment-driven host with sincere personal TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008 beliefs. However, he is not agenda driven. will source us. ming “software” that will be king. Because it Belief, in any form, from a host inspires, fasci- In effect, TRN’s investigative news unit, is the programming that is what all listeners nates, and bonds an audience. People often combined with the right stories and journalis- and viewers think of as radio and TV, our goal listen to and bond with talk radio hosts tic standards broken into 10- to 20-part serial- would be to own the intellectual property because their chosen host expresses and con- ized reports, can make some of our shows that rights to that programming before distribution firms the listener’s inner thoughts and beliefs. opt for it “America’s Anchormen” and will becomes completely commoditized through In a sense, listening to someone else voice drive our “superstation’s” online universe for syndication rights and options for both radio their opinions is a form of release for most “the rest of the story.” Best of all, our competi- and simulcast on TV. people. It is this quality that helps create a tors will be reacting to and reporting on the strong bond between host and audience. It is news stories we break. Our shows would be TALKERS: Since we are on the topic of jour- this bond that can be utilized in making a lis- the cause and our competitors would become nalism, opinion and the Internet, what are tener go interactive within the broadband the effect. Our reporters would drive the The your thoughts about rumblings of a possible “superstation” universe. New York Times to become an effect because return of the Fairness Doctrine? In this way, talk radio becomes talk media. our shows would make and break the news. The talk media environment carries more than MM: Murdoch bought MySpace for the just show content. The talk media environ- Internet’s potential and Google bought ment is simulcast as a form of interactive tele- “I submit that spoken-word YouTube in preparation for the years ahead. vision. It carries advertisers’ links to our virtu- Thus, our broadband Internet “superstation” al mall, host clubs, digital coupons, blog sites, programming will be in 10 or –– our version of the “media station” concept citizen reporter’s posting of video, multi-part more niches beyond the ones you’ve been writing about in TALKERS — investigative reports and one-stop shopping in does not require any of our host’s listeners to as many easy-access ways as possible. This with which we are commonly even go there or use it, but simply know that leads me to my next point, TRN’s two-punch familiar such as sports talk, it is there. If the Fairness Doctrine ever kicks approach to innovation through thoughtful relationship talk, news in or talk radio is messed with in any other investigative journalism, both on the citizen variety of ways, our broadband “supersta- level and for the professional. and news you can use.” tion” will become the audio listening option of choice for all of our shows’ listeners. TALKERS: Ah! So there’s room for news Bridge Ratings’ projected growth from 57 and even journalism in your vision of talk Let me add context on this topic. An inde- million weekly Internet listeners today to 150 radio’s future? pendent, investigative news unit could oper- million in three years shows how events ate under its own brand which would grant would work to our advantage. If there is no MM: Absolutely! Because of the advance of radio “first in breaking news” exclusive rights governmental interference –– I don’t think technology in cell phones, most cell phones to our hosts. We consider this a value added they would be that stupid –– we still win big are a kind of video camera. The host’s “super- that gives our shows a competitive advantage as listening devices will continue to morph. station” site can do its own mini-YouTube citi- on a serialized, multi-part basis. This creates Be it broadband audio or radio, we must be zen reporter video and blog (which would “word-of-mouth, only place you can get it” clear on this one point: The end user perceives have quality control editors, of course) that promotion for our shows of any format –– what comes out of the speakers as “radio.” would also become a source of conversation. news/talk, sports talk, entertainment shows, Thus, three years to five years from now, those That, in turn, would drive the “superstation” whatever format. The advantage of being able speakers might be connected to twenty differ- traffic. In our model, each host would have to break stories in any niche is huge. We are ent forms of distribution, AM and FM stations his or her own affinity group of citizen not talking about muckraking here, but real being just two such forms. But for the listener, reporters –– “mini-Drudges” if you will –– multi-sourced journalism from entertainment this distribution issue will be invisible to 99.9% which bring new unpredictable elements to reporting to hard news –– such as that of the of them. It will still be “radio” because audio the “superstation” model. quality done by Claudia Rosett, who uncov- content is perceived as radio. Spoken word, or ered the U.N. - Oil for Food scandal. talk, is the “software” that will run across all TALKERS: But what about the investigative I submit that spoken-word programming such forms of distribution. This is why I say journalism you mentioned? will be in 10 or more niches beyond the ones that talk radio personalities through TRN can with which we are commonly familiar such as be the “Microsoft” of talent and that it’s 1982 MM: The true power of any news organiza- sports talk, relationship talk, news and news all over again. All spoken-word programming tion is its investigative reporters. Ninety-nine you can use. Others that will emerge will is indeed “software” because everything is percent of news commentary is a direct result include entertainment shows that can contain about to change intra industry. But those of the news that a very few investigative music artist interviews, as well as some music changes will be somewhat invisible to the lis- reporters break. Over the next 24 months, it is itself. In every case, we can own the “pillar” tener who just wants to hear his or her favorite our plan to put under long-term contracts shows in those genres because we would be host. America’s best investigative reporters and the ultimate content entertainment software Just as IBM’s computers from 1982 onward then break news stories on our shows. In this company for many, if not all, of the “best-in- started becoming “commodity” distribution way, our shows are making and breaking breed” AM/FM radio shows. And later, all outlets for Microsoft’s software with decreas- news while all of our competitors are a day other new distribution media that wish to dis- ing margins on hardware every year from the behind, reporting and communicating on tribute our entertainment software. late 1980s on, so will AM/FM operators who what we broke first. For every dollar we put Once again, I submit that soon distribution will ultimately become just one form of com- into an ace investigative unit we may receive will become commoditized because there will moditized distribution for our shows and hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars of com- be so many different ways to distribute pro- other personalities become commoditized dis- petitive edge in the fact that all other media gramming and thus it will be the program- tribution, competing with 20 other methods of TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008 distributing our programming “software.”

TALKERS: So what exactly do you see as the future of AM and FM?

MM: In the years beyond 2010, will AM/FM station values drop like a rock as many pre- dict? No, I think not. However all FCC licensees’ values will start a slow decline through 2020 and beyond. That value will not vanish. It will re-appear on a slight upward grade, equally as slowly in other places like YouTube and YouTube’s evolution. Thus, that value will transfer from FCC- licensed radio and TV stations to our online content company slowly, quietly and conflict free because the consumer thinks of radio or TV as content, not as towers or distributors. That’s what TRN’s strategy accomplish- es. A pure content company that provides content to radio stations very profitably for as long as they exist and in doing so makes those stations’ listeners aware that listening and viewing can also be achieved directly from each of our stations’ syndicated companion web- sites provided by their syndicated program- ming/web content provider…us.

Mark Masters can be e-mailed at [email protected].

* According to TALKERS magazine, Spring 2007.