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Issue 193 November 2008 INTERVIEW The TALKERS magazine interview Talk Radio Network (TRN) CEO Mark Masters ith turmoil on Wall Street and The TALKERS magazine interview with Mark massive layoffs in the radio mar- Masters was conducted by Kevin Casey. Wketplace, TALKERS magazine station customers and advertisers. went to one of the true entrepreneurs in this Now, I do believe that 2008 will be known industry, TRN’s CEO Mark Masters, for TALKERS: This year is almost over. What as the year that powerful syndicated programs insight and analysis. Ever the optimist, would you say is the most significant event began saving the jobs of hardworking GMs Masters believes that there is an advantage to that has occurred in talk radio? and PDs, and the year that talk stations in gen- every disadvantage and that an entrepreneur- eral found a safe harbor within which to sur- ial renaissance in radio is near at hand. MM: Although the election dominated our vive through the cash-saving power of barter Founded in 1993, Talk Radio Network is a on-air programming, we –– meaning talk syndication. juggernaut in long-form talk syndication, radio — are a business and with all that is hap- 2008 will also be known as the year that eclipsing all other syndicators in the launch and pening on Wall Street of late, I would say the weak syndicated programs began dying off in development of successful long-form syndicat- fact that there is such a tough market in gener- droves. This is because most weak, syndicat- ed radio talk programs –– an accomplishment al for radio has to be considered the most sig- ed talk shows are predictable and offer only due to what its CEO terms a “fearless entrepre- nificant factor facing us this year. And it has information without true analysis or entertain- neurial environment at TRN.” only just begun. ment value. In this sense, weak, syndicated In April of last year, Bear Stearns issued a shows are like flesh eating bacteria on their report that concluded TRN is the second largest TALKERS: So what are you doing about it? affiliated station’s life blood –– ratings and provider of nationally syndicated radio talk revenue. This new business environment will shows nationwide (behind Premiere Radio MM: TRN has a strong array of revenue- not tolerate those weak shows that have posed Networks), making TRN (according to the Bear enhancing and cost-saving solutions for sta- as successful syndicated talk shows but are Stearns report) larger than ABC Radio tions. We believe thoughtful innovation is the really more a form of corporate welfare –– Networks (ranked third) and then-CBS-con- key in hard times and we are focused on help- shows that are just there because a station trolled Westwood One (which was ranked ing our customers’ stations to aggressively group’s CEO or EVP thought he could create a fourth by the same report) for national long- innovate in finding the opportunities that real- successful show by putting it on his own sta- form talk radio programming. ly do exist in tough times. Bad economic times tions and make a star. Unfortunately, as we all TALKERS magazine recently caught up can actually be very profitable times for entre- now know, group executives don’t make stars, with Masters to get an overview of the indus- preneurs, and TRN really does help bring that radio audiences do. I have looked closely at try and his perspective and what lies ahead. out-of-the-box entrepreneurial thinking to our the top 75 markets, side-by-side, most every TALKERSMAGAZINE November 2008 book, and there they are — dead syndicated more shows that have made it onto the TALK- launch: TRN’s brand reputation. shows — still on life support from guilty cor- ERS magazine top 10 list than our next three If I were to draw a comparison, then I porate parents, who are in denial about their competitors combined. To add an exclamation would have to say we at TRN are as careful in show’s lack of viability. Syndication works to this point, in April of last year, the then #1- building our brand in our little way as Pixar only if a show can create real viral unique ranked analyst for the radio sector on Wall was at building its reputation in overtaking audience. Street (Bear Stearns) conducted an analysis of Disney’s lock on animation or HBO was in its talk radio providers. Its conclusion was that pioneering record of being a magnet for TALKERS: What do you mean by viral for longform syndicated talk programming, attracting “best-in-breed” for talent in televi- unique audience? Talk Radio Network was the second largest sion. provider of talk programs by market share MM: Friends actively telling friends to listen. nationwide, ahead of ABC (ranked third) and TALKERS: So you are actually comparing 2009 and beyond will only be about shows Westwood One (ranked fourth), and second TRN to Pixar and HBO? that create referral-based audience. That is only to Premiere. To be sure, that report is a the TRN companies’ mission: To continue to point of pride. But we recognize it is also the MM: For our four networks, failure is not an build on our existing powerhouse lineup and equivalent of being the second tallest “pigmy” option. We look at the model of Pixar anima- to find and then launch new shows that turn because talk syndication is but a sub-niche of tion studios or HBO and we strive to emulate one listener into five listeners in a year. This is network radio. Still, it speaks to the meritoc- what they have done with their brands, but in the viral effect of powerful programming and racy at TRN and the true performance of our our own way, as it can relate to a network of few shows have the raw emotional and intel- programs. talk radio companies. This is not an accident, lectual range to do this. Merit-based programming provides both it is by design. TRN’s Michael Savage, TRN Enterprises’ stations and our network a “rocket effect” on Pixar’s visionary leaders, John Lasseter Laura Ingraham, TRN-FM’s Phil Hendrie, TRN top-end revenue growth. As an example of and Steve Jobs, started with “Toy Story.” At Enterprises’ Jerry Doyle, TRN-FM’s Mancow, this, if you average it out, the TRN companies first, people thought they were just lucky. TRN Entertainment’s Monica Crowley, and have had an average of 49% top-end revenue They thought the 3-D animation was the star TRN’s Rusty Humphries are shows that create growth each and every year for five years in a and they were just a one-hit wonder like so ratings spikes. These shows turn 1.0 share row. There simply is no other radio network many movie companies. But Jobs and dayparts into 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s all the way to dou- that can boast of that level of sustainable Lasseter were underestimated. In truth, “Toy ble digit shares –– all through the power of lis- growth. This growth is due to the powerhouse Story’s” 3-D animation was the gimmick. The tener referral. With rare exception, many of performance of great talent and the constant true power of “Toy Story” was in the writing, our competitors’ shows just don’t have that improvements we strive to make to each show the directing and the talent assembled by Jobs key ability. They don’t do anything but fill every year. and Lasseter. These men brilliantly knew that space with noise, and, as I just said, these types the writing and directing aspect of their talent are only there because one or two network TALKERS: What about your debt situation? acquisition strategy would not be credited at executives (who have pull within their radio Do you have one? first. So as Pixar cranked out hit after hit, the group’s corporate parent), not audiences, are 3-D animation gimmick of Pixar became syn- deciding that they know better than audiences. MM: Unlike many companies that have bor- onymous with great storytelling. But this is no longer sustainable. It’s over for rowed and borrowed to grow, TRN has had Jobs and Lasseter recognized that with one those shows by force of necessity. Merit is the ability to grow and launch shows from our great movie you are lucky. But when their sec- what wins from this point forward and that is own cash flow. We have also developed new, ond Pixar release –– “A Bug’s Life” –– was a what our shows have. TRN doesn’t own sta- innovative companies from our own cash flow hit also, suddenly Pixar’s success was not seen tions. Our shows are so good that they are such as NAC –– National Advertisement as a one-shot wonder but a culture of hit cre- there because of pure merit. For this reason, I Company, Inc., now America’s largest new ation. By their third hit movie, Pixar started to believe, this coming year will be the best year business development rep firm for nationally be seen as a leader in animation. By the fourth in the TRN companies’ history. syndicated talk radio programming; TRN hit Pixar was perceived as the leader and by Syndications, Inc.; and Digital Media the sixth hit, the Pixar reputation was so pow- TALKERS: In these recessionary times for Entertainment, Inc., a multi-faceted Internet erful that it was worth more than $7 billion to radio in general, how is TRN doing? entertainment/content company, among oth- Disney.

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