Vol. 632 Wednesday, No. 1 21 February 2007 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 21 February 2007. Visit of United States of America Delegation …………………… 1 Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 1 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 21 Suspension of Member……………………………… 36 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ……………… 37 Order of Business ……………………………… 38 Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2007: Second Stage (resumed) ……………… 46 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Transport Priority Questions …………………………… 59 Other Questions …………………………… 78 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 89 Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2007: Second Stage (resumed) …………………………… 90 Referral to Select Committee ………………………… 125 Courts and Court Officers (Amendment) Bill 2007: Order for Second Stage …………………………… 125 Second Stage ……………………………… 125 Private Members’ Business Civil Unions Bill 2006: Second Stage (resumed) …………………… 141 Business of Da´il: Motion …………………………… 173 Courts and Court Officers (Amendment) Bill 2007: Second Stage (resumed) …………………………… 175 Committee and Remaining Stages ……………………… 180 Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2007: Order for Second Stage …………………………… 184 Second and Subsequent Stages ………………………… 184 Adjournment Debate State Airports ……………………………… 199 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 213 1 2 DA´ IL E´ IREANN DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL OFFICIAL REPORT Imleabhar 632 Volume 632 De´ Ce´adaoin, 21 Feabhra 2007. Wednesday, 21 February 2007. ———— Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Visit of United States of America Delegation. Dublin as far as long-stay beds are concerned. There are between 80 and 100 people in that An Ceann Comhairle: Before proceeding with hospital who should be in long-stay beds else- Leaders’ Questions, I wish on my own behalf and where. The only commitment that has been on behalf of the Members of Da´il E´ ireann to broken here has been by his Government. offer a cead mile fa´ilte, a most sincere welcome, to a delegation comprising representatives drawn I know what is wrong out there, I know the from a number of state Legislatures in the United solution to the problem and I know what the States of America. I hope you will find your visit Taoiseach could do about it, but he does not seem enjoyable, successful and to our mutual benefit. to want to do it. The solution, which the Taoiseach appreciates, is that he must deal with the issue of long-stay beds. Since Leas Cross and Leaders’ Questions. Sutton were taken out of commission, they are Mr. Kenny: Yesterday evening I invited the down by 140 beds. The Government made two Taoiseach to visit Beaumont Hospital, which is in specific commitments. The first was to provide a a state of crisis. The Taoiseach declined to take medical admissions unit at Beaumont Hospital. It up that offer but I went out myself. In the acci- has not happened. Second, his Government, in a dent and emergency unit last night, it was per- state of national emergency, said it would provide fectly obvious that porters, nurses, doctors and 100 beds at St. Joseph’s in Raheny and 200 beds consultants are doing everything they can to in St. Mary’s in the Phoenix Park. The Govern- make life somewhat comfortable for patients. ment has not provided them. This problem will There were approximately 50 patients in the acci- continue in Beaumont Hospital until that aspect dent and emergency unit. All cubicles were filled, is addressed. on both sides of that unit. All of those patients Will the Taoiseach take responsibility for this were assessed for admission and all were too sick because those who are supposed to have to go home, but no beds were available in the responsibility for it are doing very little about it? hospital. Those beds have not appeared, and will not The first problem the Taoiseach does not seem appear, and this problem will continue until he to appreciate is that there is a problem in north sorts it out. 3 Leaders’ 21 February 2007. Questions 4 Mr. F. McGrath: It is a disgrace. The HSE, in Dublin and around the country, does all it can to provide step-down beds, in both Mr. Kenny: One 78-year-old woman had been nursing homes—— sitting on a hard chair for 24 hours. She was assessed as being too sick to go home, but there Mr. Howlin: Tell them to do something. was no place available in the hospital. It is the responsibility of the Taoiseach’s Government to The Taoiseach: The HSE does its utmost all provide those units and beds. I see hotels being over the country to provide step-down facilities built on 24-hour shifts around the country, but and is continuing to do so. regarding the most important buildings of all, hospitals, where people have no place at the inn, (Interruptions). the Government has broken its commitments. What will the Taoiseach do about it? The Taoiseach: In reply to Deputy Kenny, not the Labour Party,—— Mr. McGinley: Ten years of doing nothing. Mr. D. Ahern: Let the Taoiseach answer. Mr. F. McGrath: Accept the reality. We need more beds. An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach without interruption. An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach without interruption. Mr. F. McGrath: There is loads of money and 50 beds would solve the problem. Mr. McGinley: Ten wasted years. Mr. F. McGrath: It is disgraceful. Beaumont An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy McGrath, you Hospital is a disgrace, but we have been saying will have to leave if you do not behave. this to him for the past five or six years. The Taoiseach: In reply to Deputy Kenny, in An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy McGrath, you 2007 the HSE is providing 360 extra beds by way will have to leave the House. There will be no of contracts with the private sector — it is not a delays this morning. question of 50 beds. Of these, 220 are in the greater Dublin area, 100 in the south and 40 in The Taoiseach: Yesterday, I stated that four of the western region. It is not a question of 50 beds. the 52 acute hospitals were having difficulties this week and I acknowledged the work the staff have Mr. F. McGrath: Beaumont Hospital. been doing with the substantial additional resources, beds and facilities they have been The Taoiseach: It is not a question of 50 beds given to make an enormous improvement on the in Beaumont Hospital. waiting list this winter. They have brought down the length of stay in accident and emergency Mr. F. McGrath: The Taoiseach should talk to departments by over 50%. I also acknowledged the staff. I talked to them over the weekend. that Beaumont Hospital and three of the other 52 acute hospitals are having difficulties at present The Taoiseach: One should talk to the people and I stated that the senior people in the HSE, who know the position. Public capacity has been who have been working on the winter initiative increased by some 446 beds. It is not, therefore, and the accident and emergency departments a question of 50 beds. generally, have been working with them. I The HSE is very aware of the problems at appreciate that fact. Beaumont Hospital and has been working with it After Leas Cross and some of the other diffi- to try to increase capacity. As I stated yesterday, culties in north Dublin, a number of points were to try to avoid the problems experienced by the raised by the HSE where they required additional accident and emergency staff, the out-of-hours facilities. St. Joseph’s, Raheny, is in use. As doctors systems and rapid access clinic in Smith- Deputy Kenny would have found out, approxi- field have been opened. The latter is directly mately a year ago I visited the wards they opened helping north Dublin. The facilities in James at that time and it is in operation. They have Connolly Memorial Hospital associated with the introduced a number of other facilities. hospital-in-the-home concept have been put into There is a difficulty in four or five areas, mainly operation and the community intervention teams but not only in north Dublin. The bed numbers are in place. All of these measures are directly are down. Several times in the year they have designed to help the people to whom Deputy patients who, in the normal course, could go Kenny is referring. The schemes are working well home but it is just not possible for them to do so and were not in operation 12 months ago. This given their circumstances. Generally, such does not mean that from time to time there will patients are elderly people who would be on their be no difficulties in some hospitals. These diffi- own. That is a risk that cannot be taken and, culties must be managed and will not all be therefore, they need step-down facilities. solved overnight. 5 Leaders’ 21 February 2007. Questions 6 Mr. Allen: Ten years. presides. This is the problem and it will not go away. Will he take personal responsibility to The Taoiseach: There will be difficulties in ensure the commitments made by his Govern- some of the hospitals on some days and there is ment are honoured? If there were a serious acci- no point running around to whichever hospital dent in the Dublin Port tunnel — God forbid — has a difficulty trying to highlight it. The HSE or on his beloved M50, for which he paid \600 and the staff are doing their utmost to address million yesterday, Beaumont hosptial would cer- the problem. tainly not be able to cope. On the problem of long-stay beds in north (Interruptions).