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OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 7 November 2013 the Council Continued to Meet at Nine O'clock

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OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 7 November 2013 the Council Continued to Meet at Nine O'clock LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 7 November 2013 2111 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 7 November 2013 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG DR THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. 2112 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 7 November 2013 THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, B.B.S., M.H. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P., Ph.D., R.N. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 7 November 2013 2113 THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN DR THE HONOURABLE KENNETH CHAN KA-LOK THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG 2114 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 7 November 2013 THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. THE HONOURABLE TANG KA-PIU DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHUNG SHU-KUN, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 7 November 2013 2115 PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE GREGORY SO KAM-LEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THE HONOURABLE LAI TUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., I.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY MR GODFREY LEUNG KING-KWOK UNDER SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL MR ANDY LAU KWOK-CHEONG, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MRS PERCY MA, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 2116 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 7 November 2013 MEMBERS' MOTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Meeting now resumes. MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): President, pursuant to Rule 17 of the Rules of Procedure, I request a headcount. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber. (After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Meeting now resumes. This Council will continue with the joint debate on the motion and amendment moved under the Legislative Council (Powers and Privileges) Ordinance. MOTION UNDER THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL (POWERS AND PRIVILEGES) ORDINANCE Continuation of debate on motion which was moved on 6 November 2013 MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): President, over the past three weeks and with respect to the problems caused by the decision to issue additional free TV licences, the Government has been using practices which can be described as bad and offering explanations in the manner of squeezing a tube of toothpaste. It has also been using those so-called informed sources to try to fly balloons to the newspapers and explain the decision made by the Executive Council. I have no idea whether these informed sources are disseminating true or false news. On the other hand, certain Members of the Executive Council have been making their own remarks, the contents of which are not the same. We can see therefore a contest, if not a feud, between the Government and the parties concerned. There is no way that the community can tell who is telling the truth. The incident is becoming more and more confusing and it was only until yesterday afternoon when the Government issued a written statement that we began to gain some idea LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 7 November 2013 2117 of the head and tail of the matter. I also received a written reply from the Hong Kong Television Network Limited (HKTVN) yesterday morning. I wish to make use of this opportunity to remind the Government that the papers of the Executive Council and contents of the discussions held should all be kept confidential. The reason is to ensure that Members of the Executive Council can say what they want in the meetings. I believe Members will all agree to this point. But after the Executive Council has made a decision, irrespective of whether it is a matter of principle or a decision of a specific nature, the Government has the essential obligation of explaining in public the justifications for the decision and the rationale of the policy behind it. The Government cannot hide itself behind the confidentiality system of the Executive Council. This is not the raison d'être of this confidentiality system and the system should not be used in this way. I am sure there is still much space between confidentiality and accountability to the public. The question is whether there is any determination and wisdom on the part of the Government. For if not, the Government will never need to explain its policies and administrative decisions. President, the question of this motion has caused a great public concern. Now many groups have gathered in front of this Council and in a rally. I have learnt from the newspapers that certain Members of this Council encouraged the participants of this rally to encircle the Legislative Council Complex, resorting to the means of posing obstruction to personal liberty and trying to exert pressure on Members of this Council such that they will vote according to the wish of the rally participants. I am greatly deplored. Our society stresses pluralism and tolerance and if we cannot respect and tolerate other people's views and their voices which may be different from ours, how can we expect others to respect and tolerate our views and voices, and how are we qualified to talk both inside and outside this Council that we should defend the freedom of thinking and speech? President, with respect to the controversial issues this time around, I have been trying to listen to the public opinions expressed and I have read many of the commentaries made. Like many members of the public, I am very unhappy with the way the Government handled this case and I am also very disappointed. But if we are to rashly1 invoke the Legislative Council (Powers and Privileges) 1 The original test is "動輒" (dung6 zip3) and Mr Martin LIAO pronounced it as "動 軌 "(dung6 gwai2). 2118 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 7 November 2013 Ordinance (P&P Ordinance) every time when we are unhappy with the way the Government handles things or when we want to make our demands known, I am afraid I cannot agree to it. I do not wish to become an enemy of the people. But I think we must have reasons and justifications in everything we do. I have the following views on the motion. First, on the many kinds of special powers vested in this Council by the P&P Ordinance, we must exercise these powers in a solemn and prudent manner. It is only when major interest of Hong Kong society is at stake and for important issues like protection of the properties and life of the people, that we should invoke it. We must not invoke it simply because of public demand or to satisfy the people in the rally, or because of the right of a private company to run its business, or because of the dissatisfaction with the Government that this power is rashly invoked to teach the Government a lesson.
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