Nunavut Canada

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF

2nd Session 5th Assembly

HANSARD

Official Report

DAY 81

Friday, February 28, 2020

Pages 5069 – 5105

Iqaluit

Speaker: The Honourable , M.L.A.

Legislative Assembly of Nunavut

Speaker Hon. Paul Quassa ()

Hon. (Quttiktuq) (Amittuq) () Deputy Premier; Minister of Economic Development and Transportation Mila Kamingoak Emiliano Qirngnuq (Kugluktuk) (Netsilik) (Gjoa Haven) Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole () (Hudson Bay) Deputy Speaker and Chair of the Hon. Committee of the Whole ( South) (-Niaqunnguu) Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole Minister of Community and Hon. Government Services; Minister of () Hon. Human Resources Premier; Minister of Executive and (Cambridge Bay) Intergovernmental Affairs; Minister of Minister of Justice; Minister responsible for Adam Lightstone Energy; Minister of Environment; Minister Labour; Minister responsible for the Qulliq (Iqaluit-Manirajak) responsible for Aboriginal Affairs;

Energy Corporation Minister responsible for the Utility Rates

(Arviat North-Whale Cove) Review Council Hon. George Hickes

(Iqaluit-Tasiluk) Hon. Minister of Finance, Chair of the Financial () (Iqaluit-Sinaa) Management Board; Minister of Health; Government House Leader; Minister of Minister responsible for Seniors; Minister Hon. Family Services; Minister responsible for responsible for Suicide Prevention; Minister (Aivilik) Homelessness; Minister responsible for responsible for the Workers’ Safety and Minister responsible for Nunavut Immigration; Minister responsible for the Compensation Commission Arctic College; Minister responsible for Status of Women the Nunavut Housing Corporation Hon. () (Rankin Inlet North-Chesterfield Inlet) Minister of Culture and Heritage; Minister of Education; Minister of Languages

Officers Clerk John Quirke

Clerk Assistant Law Clerk Sergeant-at-Arms Hansard Production Stephen Innuksuk Michael Chandler Charlie Audlakiak Innirvik Support Services

Box 1200 Iqaluit, Nunavut, X0A 0H0 Tel (867) 975-5000 Fax (867) 975-5190 Toll-Free (877) 334-7266 Website: www.assembly.nu.ca

Table of Contents

Opening Prayer ...... 5069

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery ...... 5069

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters ...... 5070

Report of the Committee of the Whole ...... 5104

Orders of the Day ...... 5104

A. Daily References

Friday, February 28, 2020 ...... 5069

B. Bills

Bill 39 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2020-2021 – Community and

Government Services – Consideration in Committee ...... 5070

Bill 39 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2020-2021 – Education –

Consideration in Committee ...... 5096

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5069

Iqaluit, Nunavut Orders of the Day. Thank you. Friday, February 28, 2020 Members Present: Speaker (interpretation): The member is Hon. David Akeeagok, Mr. Tony Akoak, seeking unanimous consent to proceed to Hon. Jeannie Ehaloak, Hon. George Item 5. Do you agree? Are there any Hickes, Hon. David Joanasie, Ms. Mila nays? Please proceed, Member Joanasie. Kamingoak, Mr. Pauloosie Keyootak, Hon. Lorne Kusugak, Mr. Adam Item 5: Recognition of Visitors in the Lightstone, Mr. John Main, Ms. Gallery Margaret Nakashuk, Hon. Patterk Netser, Mr. David Qamaniq, Mr. Hon. David Joanasie (interpretation): Emiliano Qirngnuq, Hon. Paul Quassa, Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday I Mr. Allan Rumbolt, Hon. Joe spoke about music and as the Qilaut Savikataaq, Hon. Elisapee Sheutiapik, contest winners are in the gallery, I Ms. Cathy Towtongie. would like to take this opportunity to recognize them, starting with Jo Ellen >>House commenced at 9:00 Etuangat, who is originally from Arviat. Welcome. Item 1: Opening Prayer >>Applause Speaker (Hon. Paul Quassa) (interpretation): Before we proceed, I The other one is Becky Han and her ask Member Keyootak to say the children are also here. Welcome. opening prayer, please. >>Applause >>Prayer Daniel Taukie, who is from my Speaker (interpretation): Good morning. community of . Before we proceed, I wish to make a brief statement. We have all had >>Applause mothers. Mothers raise their children. Let’s express our appreciation in our Angela Amarualik. mothers, as we have all had mothers, and we were well taken care of when we >>Applause were children. The same thing goes for mothers who raise their children today. Caylan Kunuk. Let us remember them today. >>Applause >>Applause Also staff from the Department of I now recognize Member Joanasie. Culture and Heritage, Tocasie Burke and Saa Pitsiulak. Welcome to the gallery. Hon. David Joanasie (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning. Mr. Speaker, I request consent >>Applause of this Assembly to go to Item 5 in the

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Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Welcome to the gallery. We are proud of Mr. Chairman. Good morning. you for using culture and songs. (interpretation ends) We wish to continue with the review of Bill 39 and (interpretation ends) Orders of the day. the 2020-21 Main Estimates for the (interpretation) Member Joanasie. Department of Community and Government Services, followed by the Hon. David Joanasie (interpretation): Department of Education. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There will be a (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. concert tonight and I would like to Chairman. welcome everyone to the concert in Iqaluit. Chairman: Thank you. Are we in agreement that we first deal with Bill Mr. Speaker, I again request consent of 39? this Assembly to go directly to Item 19 in the Orders of the Day. Thank you, Some Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker. Bill 39 – Appropriation (Operations & Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. Maintenance) Act, 2020-2021 – The member is seeking unanimous Community and Government consent to proceed directly to Item 19 in Services – Consideration in the Orders of the Day. Are there any Committee nays? There are no nays. Let’s proceed to Item 19. (interpretation ends) Chairman: Thank you. I would now Consideration in Committee of the like to ask Minister Kusugak: do you Whole of Bills and Other Matters. Bills have officials that you would like to 39 (interpretation) and 40 with Mr. appear before the committee? Minister Akoak in the Chair. Kusugak.

I ask members to remain in their seats as Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): we will proceed directly to Committee of Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good the Whole. morning. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. (interpretation ends) Sergeant-at-Arms. Chairman: Does the committee agree to Item 19: Consideration in Committee let the minister and his officials go to the of the Whole of Bills and Other witness table? Matters Some Members: Agreed. Chairman (Mr. Akoak): Good morning, colleagues, Inuit, and Nunavummiut. I Chairman: Thank you. Sergeant-at- would like to call the committee meeting Arms, please escort the witnesses in. to order. In Committee of the Whole we have the following items to deal with: For the record, Minister Kusugak, please Bills 39 and 40. What is the wish of the introduce your officials. Minister committee? Mr. Main. Kusugak.

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Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. family. Chairman. To my right is my Deputy of Community and Government Services, I would like to continue on the theme of Ms. Constance Hourie, and to my left, contract employees. Yesterday the Mr. Chairman, no he is not a Zamboni minister had indicated that there was a driver, but it is Eiryn Devereaux, number within the Information Assistant Deputy Minister. Thank you, Management and Information Mr. Chairman. Technology Branch. My first question is: are there currently any contract >>Laughter employees within the Infrastructure Branch? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Thank you. It must be a Friday morning. Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

Thank you. We are now on page J-7. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Infrastructure. First name on my list, Mr. Chairman. I believe that there might be a Rumbolt. couple, two or three, which is not uncommon, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, but I didn’t have any more Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. questions. Thank you. Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Rumbolt. Chairman. I don’t know where to go Next name, Mr. Lightstone. from there. Are these contract employees project managers? Thank you, Mr. Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. Good morning. Good morning, minister and your officials, Ms. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hourie and Mr. Devereaux. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Yes, they are, First, I would like to thank the minister Mr. Chairman. Thank you. for his comments yesterday in making a commitment to reduce the reliance on Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. contract employees. I can’t express how pleased I am to hear that and I look Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. forward to seeing progress in that area. Chairman. I understand that project managers are crucial in achieving our Before I go into my questions, I would capital projects. Are there any full-time also to thank Mr. Devereaux for being indeterminate project managers? Thank such an upstanding citizen. On a number you, Mr. Chairman. of occasions I have come across Mr. Devereaux volunteering, not just with Chairman: Minister Kusugak. himself but with his family. I think that’s an excellent standard to set for our youth Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. and I appreciate that, and I will do my Chairman. Of course there are, Mr. best to do the same with my young Chairman. We have a lot of non-contract

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5072 workers, but it’s inevitable that our Chairman: Minister Kusugak. department along with many other departments are going to have contract Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. workers. There are no two ways around Chairman. Actually, when you break it it. In the north we have a lot of work to down, it makes sense. You don’t need do; our department is tasked with many snow removal all the time, but as and projects we have on the go. We have to when you need it, you need to hire have project managers if we want these somebody to come in and remove your projects to go through. Unfortunately at snow. You might need to get some extra this time some of them, two or three of janitors if there’s flooding or something them, have to be filled through contracts, like that, and with heating and plumbing. but yes, we have non-contract project There are instances where we may not managers, of course, Mr. Chairman. need a person all the time, but as and Thank you. when we need them, in cases of emergencies or situations where we do Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. need them, we would work with them on that. It’s the best way we can do it Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. without getting into long-term contracts Chairman. My next question is on the and not necessarily needing people full service contract budget of $45 million. time to remove snow. You would use it I’m going to assume that it’s for leasing in winter after blizzards, but you of government assets. Would the definitely don’t need it in the summer. minister be able to provide us with a Thank you, Mr. Chairman. breakdown of what exactly that $45 million is for? Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. Chairman. Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman. With regard to the $45 million budget for the service contracts, Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. I know the minister would not have on Chairman. That’s all encompassing, hand a detailed listing of everything that including some of the items that my budget is for, but would the minister be colleague mentioned, but there are also able to provide us with a breakdown at a as-and-when contracts included in there. later date? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are a number of things that are included in that number, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Thank you. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. Chairman. I would be glad to. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As-and-when seems a bit of a Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Lightstone, vague term. Is that, for example, when a are you done? Okay. The next name on standing offer agreement would be used my list, Ms. Towtongie. for contract employees? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Ms. Towtongie: Thank you, Mr. there. I saw it when it was happening in Chairman. I just wanted to make a Baker Lake. comment while we are on infrastructure. I got a call from the mayor of Rankin This is something that is very hard for Inlet. The hamlet council had a meeting municipalities to endure because it does on the budget for the Government of get heavy on the municipalities. Roads Nunavut. They have concerns, and as the need to be maintained, water needs to be former mayor, I understand that the delivered, and snow needs to be minister will have full knowledge. removed, and so on. The pressures increase very rapidly when you look at it Rankin Inlet is going through a forced through the schools and the health growth and the large municipalities, centres and everything else in the Arviat, Rankin Inlet, Baker Lake, and community. The pressures that get put others across the territory, are being on that by no fault of the municipality is funded the same as smaller communities. one of the things that our department has For example, Rankin Inlet is constantly been working with the Nunavut fundraising in recreation. This year alone Association of Municipalities and the Rankin Inlet volunteers raised $500,000 association of administrators, along with and that is used to keep the arena open our staff. and recreation open for youth, but it does take a toll on the recreation staff and We are looking at the current funding other volunteers. formula that we do have. We do know it needs to be changed. We do know we With the forced growth like the mine, need to make some improvements and there are more trucks and the roads are we are going through that process right not well maintained sometimes because now and trying to see what is the fair of the cost of the roads. The fire balance for everybody. We would like to department is constantly fundraising to fund everybody per capita, but in train. I understand, as the former mayor, listening to the mayors and SAOs and the minister is well aware of the issues the public, that is not how it is working. and I’m positive he will look into it. As I had mentioned earlier in the week There could be a model or a structure while I was sitting here, that is where these large municipalities can something we are looking at and I hope have adequate funding. That’s my at the end of the day that we will be able comment and thank you for allowing me to come up with something that benefits to speak. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. all municipalities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Thank you. Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Thank you. Next name on my list, Mr. Main. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the comments Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, from my colleague. I understand the Mr. Chairman. Good morning, minister municipality; I am one of the other and your officials. MLAs for and I see the forced growth that is happening (interpretation ends) On page 220, one

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5074 of your priorities for the upcoming year advanced through the planning phase, is to “Pursue the on-time and on-budget CGS presented the project application project delivery for Nunavut Fibre for federal funding consideration at this Infrastructure Projects.” My first point in time to mitigate against the risk question, it says “projects,” so there is of not having federal funding approval in more than one. What are the Nunavut place prior to federal election.” fibre infrastructure projects? I know that the Nuuk fibre is one. I’m wondering That statement really interests me what the other ones are. (interpretation) because my understanding is that there Thank you, Mr. Chairman. was a signed bilateral agreement over 10 years, signed by the Liberal government Chairman: Minister Kusugak. in March 2018, for $566 million. If there was a different government elected, how Hon. Lorne Kusugak: I believe it is does that work? Does this money “project” like you do. I believe that it is evaporate if there was a Conservative a typo. We are working on that project, government or if there was an NDP but we are taking a look at other ways of government put in place? Does this delivering the fibre project. There was money go away? Does the new federal an announcement during the show in government simply rip up existing Ottawa that the Kivalliq Inuit bilateral agreements with provinces and Association was looking at this fibre- territories? This is the capital planning hydro or power project going up along process, so I would like to understand it. the Hudson Bay coast. That is one of the (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. things we are also looking at to see if Chairman. that may be another alternative that we would pursue, but right now it is just one Chairman: Minister Kusugak. project, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Mr. Main. Chairman. There are just no guarantees when things like that happen. They may Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, make changes to it with the new Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) government, not to say it has, but there’s Thanks for clarifying that. I’m going to that possibility. In terms of this refer to a letter recently provided to the agreement, it is what is called an Chair of the Standing Committee on umbrella agreement, so there could be Oversight of Government Operations changes made to it or if something and Public Accounts which details would have happened and there was a information about this fibre project and new government, it might have made how it came about. working on this a little different or a little harder and more abrasive and On page 5 of the letter it mentions that maybe not come forward. That was the “During fall 2018, the GN was aware work behind that, Mr. Chairman. Thank that the federal funding support, 75 you. percent, would be potentially impacted in relation to the upcoming federal Chairman: Mr. Main. election and despite only being partially

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Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Later on in the same page it says, “Given Hon. Lorne Kusugak: No, Mr. the planning phase was not 100 percent Chairman. No, it wouldn’t be that way. completed (still awaiting the marine Mr. Chairman, maybe I can get Mr. engineer’s survey report, etcetera) the Devereaux to get into it in a little more scope, definition, and cost modelling in detail through you. Mr. Chairman. fall 2018 was not at a more robust stage as we typically would experience with a Chairman: Thank you. To the man who traditional GN Vote 2 capital project like is not a Zamboni driver, Mr. Devereaux. a health centre or a school.” Reading this all together, I believe that, for political >> Laughter considerations and that the election was coming up and that there was some need Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. for security, decisions were made to Chairman. I thank the member for the shortcut the capital planning process. question. There are a few questions in there, one around the planning process On the one hand, if you want to build a for major capital projects, whether it’s a new school in Kugluktuk or Arviat, the new school, a new health centre, or in capital planning process is very strict. this case something very unique to You have to go through the planning Nunavut in a large fibre infrastructure process, you can’t skip ahead a year, but project. I don’t think on our side at CGS here we have a project that equalled the we never ascertained that we would not equivalent of four or five schools complete 100 percent of the planning together in terms of the magnitude. For associated with this project before me political reasons or political move into a design phase. considerations, it was permitted to jump ahead and go ahead without the planning I think it has been discussed, and there’s process being completed. information around what occurred in 2018 with the federal election and In terms of the capital planning process certainly the government at the time had within the government, is this something a very strong mandate around capital that is regularly done? Is there a way for investment in rural and remote an MLA such as myself to say, “Well, communities for broadband connectivity. I’m worried that my school is not going Certainly the federal government had an to be approved in the next Nunavut interest in seeing fibre come to Nunavut, government and we have an election the last jurisdiction in Canada that does coming up in 2021”? “Can we skip the not have the fibre connection. planning phase for my school because Strategically there were was motivation I’m worried that the next group of if the federal government was appeased MLAs who are elected may not approve to provide that funding approval to try to it?” I’m trying to understand this as it take advantage of that funding. I think it pertains to the capital planning process, was more of pursuing a funding which is under this division. opportunity that may not exist six (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. months later. Chairman.

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At that point in time, as we provided Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, information in the letter, that was Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) referenced, we were not 100 percent Thank you for that explanation. Further through the planning phase. We were on, so you continue the planning phase probably two-thirds or so through the and it’s detailed in this letter. It was at a planning phase and recognized there was later date, in May 2019, that your cost still some scope and costing that would estimates were updated from $120 have to evolve and always our intention million to $210 million. I’ll note that by to complete that and always are this time funding had already been understanding that we had to come back committed and there were already to the Assembly before this group to decisions made that this was the model seek the additional capital funds before to take. The minister just mentioned that this project would grow legs and go a possible private sector investment anywhere. There was always the known similar to the Kivalliq is on the table, but opportunity that the Assembly may or my understanding of this project as it’s may not approve the remainder of explained is that it’s 100 percent funding and hence the project would not government-own. There is no private go through. sector ownership.

After the federal announcement, we When you look at that increase, $120 continued, as was mentioned, to million to $210 million, it’s all on the undertake scope definition and we backs of the Nunavut government. Yes, continued to work on all of the aspects there’s funding from the federal that we would for any capital project to government, but that’s our money better define scoping cost and that led us anyway, as I see it, under the bilateral to where we were when we came into agreement where it’s up to the Nunavut the Assembly last fall for the capital government to determine how to spend estimates to further define this project. it. We’re really still in the planning phase for this project. We’re anticipating this On the next page, answer to page 3 in fall going to the market to move into the terms of whether this was compliant design phase. Until a contract is with the Financial Administration executed for design and/or construction, Manual in terms of the change to the we’re still in that planning phase to see if scope and cost, not only did the project this is the right project. increase to $210 million; two communities suddenly dropped off the The good news is that the funding is in project list, being Cape Dorset and place now, so we have the opportunity to . potentially deliver a very strategic and a very important major capital project to In terms of Financial Administration bring high-speed fibre to Nunavut. Manual Directive 302, your letter says, Thank you, Mr. Chairman. “CGS understands that the department is in compliance with FAM 302 as the Chairman: Mr. Main. department presented and sought approval of the proposed changes in scope and cost to both the Financial

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Management Board fall 2019 and all The information in terms of the change Legislative Assembly Members’ fall of scope and the reduction of a few of session 2019.” the communities, Sanikiluaq and Cape Dorset, would have been informed I don’t recall being given a chance to through the correspondence to the approve the changes to scope and budget Assembly, but I do agree that the vote in fall session 2019 because the that occurred that had shown a five-year department did not come forward for any capital plan and the increase to the GN additional funding under this project. I Vote 2 portion was in subsequent years wonder if they could clarify this out. This Assembly will have the particular part that all Legislative opportunity to decide to vote those funds Assembly members, during the fall in the future years. session, were given a chance to approve the changes to scope and budget in I guess that there was previously compliance with the Financial approved money in the fall of 2018 Administration Manual. (interpretation) based upon the $120 million capital Thank you, Mr. Chairman. project. We came before the Assembly in the fall of 2019. That money too Chairman: Minister Kusugak. would have to be appropriated. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could have Mr. Chairman: Mr. Main. Devereaux respond to that, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I Chairman: Mr. Devereaux. guess this is an area where I’ll plan to seek further clarification in terms of Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. whether the Financial Administration Chairman. I thank the member for the Manual was complied with because I question. In the fall of 2019 the don’t believe it was. I believe it has been department provided information to the clear since the beginning that this project Assembly around the fibre project and was being pushed. The capital planning the change in the scope on the increase process being what it is and for whatever to the cost estimate and that was reasons, decisions had been made that it reflected in the documents that would should go ahead. have been shared. Who is the client department for this I’m thinking that the question ties to the project? I’m looking at the substantiation fact that in the fall 2019 appropriations, sheet and it mentions a lot about health there wasn’t a request for any additional care and the benefits from fibre to health new money in that upcoming capital care. Is the client department CGS or is year because the increase and the ask for it Health or is it Education? GN Vote 2 would have been in out (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. years, in years 2, 3 and 4, and in the Chairman. previously approved five-year capital plan. Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

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Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. then maybe we have to re-evaluate that Chairman. The client department is we’re approaching things here in CGS, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Nunavut because they are privately owned assets. Chairman: Mr. Main. I guess my final question is it presents Mr. Main: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. three options that are being looked at, You go on later in this letter under item this is for the management and No. 10 regarding the ownership of the governance of the asset: GN ownership, asset. It says here, “GN will retain full a Crown corporation, and private ownership of the infrastructure. This ownership. Would the minister be able ownership of capital will allow the GN to look into partial private ownership of to ensure pricing models for residential, the asset? It could end up with the best commercial and institutional broadband of both worlds if you’re able to sell off a customers are affordable and do not 50 percent, for example, stake or 49 include a capital debt repayment pricing percent stake in the asset. It would component relative to the initial capital reduce our capital burn and maybe give investment.” Reading this statement, us some more. It may be a model to private ownership of telecoms consider. That’s my final question on infrastructure does not lead to affordable this one. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. outcomes for broadband customers. How Chairman. do we square this with what is happening in the Kivalliq right now, Chairman: Minister Kusugak. where the Kivalliq Inuit Association is pursuing broadband asset development Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. from a private sector perspective? Chairman. I appreciate the questioning (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. on this. It’s very important for us to Chairman. know the kind of interest out there. Mr. Chairman, there is a lot of interest out Chairman: Minister Kusugak. there on this topic. We get approached a lot from the private sector and the public Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. enquiring about this fibre and where we Chairman. That’s something we’re are with it and where we want to go with working on right now and I’ll be more it. than happy to share with my colleague when we get more details on that issue, We have an opportunity here over the Mr. Chairman. Thank you. next 12 to 18 months to converse with the public sector and the private sector to Chairman: Mr. Main. see what’s the best possible way to do this where maybe we can deliver part of Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, it or all of it or most of it or some of it or Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I none of it and the private sector could be think it would be interesting to see what involved. We’re going to take the next the minister can provide because the way 12 to 18 months to do that. We will I read this, if it doesn’t make sense for communicate with interested with the private sector to invest in telecoms, interested people out there, interested

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5079 private sector out there to see how we question. Is there going to be an addition can best deliver this so that the public is or renovations? Thank you, Mr. best impacted by this, Mr. Chairman. Chairman.

It’s something we will look at and as I Chairman: Minister Kusugak. assured my member that we will keep him abreast on where we are on this Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): matter and with all the other stuff we Mr. Chairman, I apologize since I don’t will be bringing, I’ll make sure that quite understand why he thinks an when there are updates to give on this addition is needed. In reading G-7, I sector, I’ll be more than happy to don’t quite understand his question. provide it with my colleagues. Thank Perhaps he can point it out as to which you, Mr. Chairman. one it is, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Chairman: Thank you. Next name on Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. my list, Mr. Qirngnuq. Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The wording is what you, Mr. Chairman. I say “good I am looking at. As the minister doesn’t morning” to the minister and his understand, I am trying to clearly ask officials. about it. Is it listed in the business plan? As buildings usually need maintenance With the amendment to page G-7, and sometimes need improvements, is deputy minister’s office, can the minister this in the business plan? Thank you, clarify what this is referring to, Mr. Mr. Chairman. Chairman? Thank you. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank The office of the deputy minister is you for the clarification. Our office has located here in Iqaluit, and if you want regional offices that also need to know where it is located, it is in the improvements and our regional offices Brown building and the office consists also have divisions that have to work of IT staff and our staff with various together. We try to keep them together divisions. The office houses my deputy by purchasing new desks, by new minister along with two assistant deputy carpets, as these are part of the work ministers as a CGS office, Mr. required for the upkeep. Further, the Chairman. Thank you. assets of the office that have to be used for operations, they all need planning. Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. The funds are allocated towards our regional offices and the improvements Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank that are required and for other offices you, Mr. Chairman. How will this be set and employees are sometimes up? I don’t see night shifts and I would transferred to other offices. That is what like to request information, hence my the funds are allotted for, that he

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5080 mentioned, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Oh, Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): sorry. Mr. Qirngnuq. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I understood your question, we have Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank ongoing capital projects in Nunavut and you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for there’s a variety. We also deal with giving me a new name. emergency repairs as they crop up, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. My second question relates to capital funds that our colleague for Arviat and Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. Whale Cove asked about. Based on my understanding, it is for the fibre optic Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank project based on the funds listed in the you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll move on to capital projects. My other question is: another subject. Again, in the same with this being listed in the capital plans sentence, I would like further for the fibre optic linkage, is there any information. I’ll read this in English, as I other capital project envisioned here? have been taught to speak English, so Thank you, Mr. Chairman. that it comes across clear, (interpretation ends) “Comprehensive infrastructure Chairman: Minister Kusugak. services to all client departments and agencies, with the exception of Nunavut Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Housing and the Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We usually Corporation.” (interpretation) What deal with government infrastructure and exactly does that mean? Mr. Chairman, we also work with different departments that’s my question. Thank you. like Education, Health, and so on. We work with them when they are Chairman: Minister Kusugak. proceeding with capital projects within Nunavut like marine infrastructure, Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): correctional facilities, and so on. Our Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Qulliq office manages the projects and we Energy Corporation and the Nunavut monitor the work for the duration of the Housing Corporation usually have their project, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. own staff who deal with and review anything that is required. For anything Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. else, the other departments, for example, with the design of the building to the Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank completion of a project, surveying the you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to fibre land, the foundation, setting up contracts optic linkage, when the project is so that they can build the infrastructure completed, is there any other capital right from the beginning to the end and project under consideration for to occupation, there’s an ongoing review improvements? I would like to of those projects and that’s under our understand this, hence my question, Mr. department. The Nunavut Housing Chairman. Thank you. Corporation and Qulliq Energy have their own staff that deal with their

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5081 projects, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. We’re simply just trying to consolidate them all instead of having to report four Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. and five different line items under the Safety Services Division. Thank you, Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank Mr. Chairman. you, Mr. Chairman. I’m sure that there’s quite a lot of work that’s put in when Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. there’s a requirement to construct buildings and so on. That’s just a Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank comment. you, Mr. Chairman. The second item is the Fire Protection Strategy. It also In your business plan on page 218 the includes a written section, although the Office of the Fire Marshal requested figures are not the same. This other funding in 2019-2020 and if I can do the matter relates to identifying issues for math, I think it’s $1,362,000. There are firefighting, as it too has an overall no figures for the following three fiscal amount, although the figures don’t years. Why is it like that? Are they not match. Is this in the same boat as what I expecting further expenditures or will asked about previously about fire there be an amount identified closer to marshal’s office? Are the figures the those fiscal years? Thank you, Mr. same as what is listed in the figures? Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps I can Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the refer it to my deputy minister to my left, figures are the same, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you.

Chairman: Mr. Devereaux. Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq.

Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank Chairman. I thank the member for the you, Mr. Chairman. I want to speak to question. When the department came safety services listed on page 219. There forward with the new chief building are no figures for 2019-2020. In thinking officials’ office at that time in terms of about this, I imagine safety issues will the main estimates, how we used to arise, and it seems only in the new fiscal report and request appropriations, we year that there will be funding of had multiple lines for the various $6,205,000, which I believe will be used disciplines within safety services. This for the upcoming year. Can you provide past year we’re simply just trying to an explanation so I can understand the consolidation. When you look at the reasoning? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. prior three years for all of those business line items that fall under safety services, Chairman: Minister Kusugak. you will see that the prior year’s was based upon a different reporting model.

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Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): occurring, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These numbers used to be separate line items to Chairman: Thank you. It’s just a be used for the fire marshal’s office and comment. Before I go to the next person, inspectors, which were funded I want to advise members that Ms. separately, but at this time we have Angnakak will not be here due to illness. consolidated them into one fund under Thank you. the Safety Services Division. The funds are listed in the second paragraph and on The last name on the list on this page, the bottom there are three items that Mr. Qamaniq. have been consolidated into one fund. We don’t expect to stop funding them, Mr. Qamaniq (interpretation): Thank but they have been consolidated under you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Safety Services Division, Mr. about what my colleague for Arviat Chairman. Thank you. North-Whale Cove was asking regarding fibre optics. I’ll be speaking English. Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. (interpretation ends) The Kativik Regional Government completed a Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank desktop site visit report regarding the you, Mr. Chairman. With that being the impact on Nunavik communities on the case, are they only going to have offices Eastern Arctic Undersea Fibre Optic in this capital city or will they have Network and provided a copy of the offices in the Kitikmeot and Kivalliq report to the Department of Community regions? I imagine there will be three and Government Services in October sets of figures for the regions then, Mr. 2016. Was there only one site visit or Chairman. Thank you. site visits in Nunavik and Nunavut communities? Thank you. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The regional Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. offices will not see any changes. It won’t Chairman. There were site visits in change for the regions, but the only Nunavut communities but not in change has been to consolidate the Nunavik communities, Mr. Chairman. funding. The employees in the Thank you. communities will not see any changes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Mr. Qamaniq.

Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. Mr. Qamaniq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am assuming that the site Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank visits were to Cape Dorset, Kimmirut, you, Mr. Chairman. This isn’t a and Iqaluit. Is that correct? Thank you, question, rather just a comment. If this is Mr. Chairman. set up properly, I don’t anticipate any further challenges in the Safety Services Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Division due to emergency situations

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Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. capacity and telecommunication Chairman. That’s correct, Mr. Chairman. companies through a public procurement Thank you. process, allowing these telecoms to provide residential and commercial Chairman: Mr. Qamaniq. Internet services to customers.” Does this mean that this Crown corporation Mr. Qamaniq: Thank you, Mr. would be competing with NorthwesTel Chairman. It says here that the Canadian and Qiniq? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Northern Economic Development Agency approved $250,000 to CGS for a Chairman: Minister Kusugak. desktop study on potential fibre landing routes involving Sanikiluaq, Cape Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Dorset, Kimmirut, Iqaluit, and a marine Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When we connection to Nuuk in March 2017. Mr. were talking about this, I stated earlier Main had indicated that Sanikiluaq and that we are looking at different options Kinngait have been eliminated and there and we will be able to have discussions are only Kimmirut, Iqaluit, and Nuuk, I with the private business owners and suppose. Dropping the two communities, people who are interested in starting up do you think this project should go Internet businesses. Our staff will talk to ahead? It only involves two them see what the best way is to spread communities. Is it worth pursuing this amongst the people of Nunavut and how project? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. it will benefit the most people in Nunavut is going to be part of the study Chairman: Minister Kusugak. that we will be doing on it. We’re trying to make it so that it has the biggest Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. impact and costs the least amount of Chairman. Our department believes it is money. That is our goal and that is part worth pursuing this project, Mr. of the review. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Thank you. Second line of Chairman: Mr. Qamaniq. questioning for Mr. Main.

Mr. Qamaniq: Thank you, Mr. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Chairman. Bear with me. I had another Mr. Chairman, for recognizing me again. question, but I’m not sure which page it (interpretation ends) I just had a couple was. of more questions on the fibre and then a couple of more to follow up on Mr. It says here in the letter that you wrote to Rumbolt’s questions from yesterday. the Chair of the Standing Committee on Oversight of Government Operations on Just for clarity where it says “on time January 31, 2020, “…create a Crown and on budget” project delivery for fibre corporation to own and operate this projects, the total budget is now specific telecommunications estimated at $210 million. The GN’s infrastructure system. Under this portion of that has not yet been fully module, the Crown corporation may also appropriated. Correct? I just wanted a wish to be a wholesaler of excess fibre correction or clarification.

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(interpretation) Thank you, Mr. on-budget project delivery. Chairman. It comes back to application of the Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Financial Administration Manual where regular members of the Assembly are Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. given a chance to approve major changes Chairman. It has been identified in the in the scope and budget. To my five-year plan, but each year it has to be knowledge, that has not yet happened appropriated. My colleague is correct, where the regular members provided a Mr. Chairman. Thank you. chance to approve the changes in the budget from $120 million to $210 Chairman: Mr. Main. million, but I’ll leave that there.

Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, In terms of this building permitting Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Just office, Mr. Rumbolt was asking for clarity, I believe it’s around $50 questions yesterday. Could the minister million from the Government of commit to giving a written status update Nunavut that would be required. How on the number of applications into that much of that has been approved to date office and the number of permits issued? and how much yet has to be approved in I believe there are also inspections that upcoming fiscal years? I’ll try not to go are done. (interpretation) I would into capital, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate it if the minister could apologize if I’m getting a bit too capital- provide a written update. Thank you, heavy. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe we did provide that Chairman. Unfortunately we don’t have information as Mr. Rumbolt was calling that level of detail on the capital in front them out yesterday, but if there is an of us and I won’t be able to answer that updated version, I would be more than question, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. happy to provide that to my colleagues, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Mr. Main. Chairman.

Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Chairman: Mr. Main. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The substantiation sheet in front of me, my Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, records indicate that $7 million has been Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I approved to date and that further roughly may be incorrect, so I apologize to the $47 million would be required to be minister for requesting information that approved under capital funding. That’s has already been provided. just where I was trying to get clarification in terms of coming back to I do see a list of building permit fees and the business plan where it refers to an application process. I don’t see any

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5085 numbers provided in terms of how many Later on in the letter, the next page, this permits have been applied for. I believe is very concerning for me; it says that Mr. Rumbolt was quoting numbers that “The need for a homeowner to hire were provided orally in committee. I was engineers and/or architects in the design just taking the opportunity to request a of new homes and renovations to written summary of the building permits existing homes is based upon how situation. (interpretation) Thank you, complex the design is. As an example, Mr. Chairman. foundations will always require a professional design and any other Chairman: Minister Kusugak. aspects of the intended design could also impact the need for professional design.” Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Mr. Chairman, I’ll be more than happy to provide that in When I read that “foundations will detail. Mr. Chairman, that shouldn’t be always require professional design,” it is an issue. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. very difficult for Nunavummiut homeowners, for example, or small Chairman: Mr. Main. businesses to access the services of an architect or an engineer. Is this a service Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, that the building official’s office is able Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) to help homeowners obtain? Do you Again, this is a page-less letter, no date have a directory of architects or and no page. In terms of the fees that are engineers who could step in to help charged under this building permit homeowners in particular? application process, you provide some (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. examples. A large construction project Chairman. of $20 million was given as an example and the fees would be $20,000 for a Chairman: Minister Kusugak. project of that size. Where do those fees go? Do they just go into general Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. revenues or is there a specific fund that Chairman. In terms of when they are is set up and then that money is put back doing the piles, the people who provide towards, I don’t know, a specific the piles service would be able to do the purpose? (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. engineering on that by driving the pile in Chairman. and setting it in place. In terms of putting in cribbing, the above ground Chairman: Minister Kusugak. cribbing, the contractors are usually helpful in doing that. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It would just go to general In terms of helping a private homeowner revenues, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. who is looking to add onto their existing Chairman. house, if they require assistance in finding somebody who makes blueprints Chairman: Mr. Main. and that, our department has been helpful and would continue to point Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, people in different directions. There are Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) different architects out there that do that.

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Often they will go to the housing 10-by-10 shack or cabin, so it’s good to corporation to seek assistance in that. clarify that. There are avenues out there. People who are building homes have to start with a We are open to suggestions and ideas. blueprint and so those blueprints will We will be reviewing this. We are detail the kind of footprints the house keeping an ear to the ground on this and should have and how to build it. There taking notes of where we could, if we are things in place like that. If you’re could, make improvements and where looking to extend your house, your we could, we will be doing that. We’re blueprint maker will build from the looking at maybe a four to five-year cribbing to the chimney tops. There are window to take a look at it and then those in place. maybe redraft or make improvements after four or five years of going through The short answer for my colleague in this, Mr. Chairman. We’re more than terms of a homeowner who is not aware happy to hear input on suggestion on this of where to get that stuff, if they contact Act, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. us, we would be more than happy to help point them in the right direction, Mr. Chairman: Mr. Main. Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Chairman: Mr. Main. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) It’s good to hear that the minister or the Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, department is open to input. Will you be Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) It consulting with the private sector on this mentions further on in the letter the particular Act or the regulations? It is of exemption level of $40,000, the $40,000 concern from some builders, property threshold for requiring a building permit, type businesses, that this is making a and that’s in the regulations. Is it the bureaucratic territory even more department open to input from the bureaucratic and harder to build stuff. private sector or homeowners regarding Will the department be going out changes to the regulations, or are these specifically and speaking to the private all driven by the Nunavut Building Code sector and looking for input on whether Act and are they written in stone and it’s these Building Code Act regulations and really hard to change them? the office of the chief building official (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. are business-friendly and as much as Chairman. possible? (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the question, Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. especially in line with this $40,000 issue, Chairman. The idea behind this or the because I have been asked and work behind this is to have people safe approached about people building shacks in a building that is structurally safe and and sheds and assuming or thinking they sound. That is the idea behind this. The need to get a building permit to build a idea behind this is not to make it difficult

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5087 for the contractors and construction Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. companies. We need to have safe Chairman. We are in communication buildings and safe homes across with the private sector, more right now Nunavut, more so than anywhere else informally. I believe next week we will probably because of the harsh and be in the Kivalliq, we will be in Rankin unforgiving climate that we have. This Inlet and probably a couple of other whole building code issue is to ensure communities to communicate with the that our buildings and homes are private sector on this and other matters, structurally sound and safe for those and we will be going throughout the people who will be in them. territory to discuss this in a more informal manner. Having said that, yes, we will be and we are in communication with the private As we get closer to the five years, we sector. I think it is important to be in will be doing more formal engagements close contact and to get ideas and input to get more detailed information from from the small private sector that would them as it will have drawn out over the spend a lot of energy on painting and next few years more issues that may be doing minor repairs to houses to those or may not be, and at that time that are building condominiums. We will everybody will have a better be in touch and communicating with all understanding of this Act. Towards the sectors and all of those of contractors, end of the four to five years we will have Mr. Chairman. Thank you. more formal discussions on this matter.

Chairman: Mr. Main. As for the input from the private sector, this is early on at this stage. In the next Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, while as we’re gathering more Mr. Chairman. Thank you, minister. information and more input from the (interpretation ends) It’s good to hear private sector, I will be more than happy that the department is open and will be to share that kind of information with in contact with the private sector. Will my colleagues as we get into it, Mr. this be a formal consultation type of Chairman. Thank you. process where there will be a public announcement or public advertisements Chairman: Thank you. I think we spent made that we’re looking for input on this enough time on this page. Infrastructure. chief building official office, the Total Operations and Maintenance, to be permitting process, the regulations, or is Voted. $117,657,000. Agreed? it an informal thing? In either case, yes or no, where can committee members Some Members: Agreed. access a summary or information regarding what the private sector is Chairman: Thank you. Before we go to telling this department about the the last page, we will be taking a 10- Building Code Act application? minute break. Thank you. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Committee recessed at 10:23 and resumed at 10:37 Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

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Chairman: I would like to call the Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. committee meeting back to order. Chairman. I don’t know, Mr. Chairman. Welcome back. Page 2 is an information I wasn’t a minister then, I wasn’t an item only, but I’ll open the floor for MLA then. I wouldn’t know. Thank you, questions on the Petroleum Products Mr. Chairman. Division. Mr. Lightstone. Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First I would like to thank the Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. minister for tabling the Petroleum Chairman. I understand that the minister Products Division’s 2016-17 Annual wasn’t around in the ‘70s, wasn’t a Report. My first question is: when will minister back in the ‘70s, but he was the the minister be tabling subsequent Minister of CGS prior to this Fifth annual reports? Thank you, Mr. Assembly, which is why I was asking Chairman. why it was never previously tabled or in fact it was never actually produced, as Chairman: Minister Kusugak. page 5 indicates that this is the first ever annual report. How is it possible that the Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. $200 million Petroleum Products Chairman. The 2017-18 is complete and Division, there had never been an annual ready for translations. The 2018-19 is report produced prior to ’16-17? Thank expected to be completed by the end of you, Mr. Chairman. March, so we will table those in the spring session, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Lightstone. Just a reminder that we’re on the 2020- Mr. Chairman, we’re also going forward 21 budget line. Minister Kusugak. from this. Our annual reports will be developed alongside our annual financial Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. audit and will be available for tabling in Chairman. As I said, I don’t know. You the fall of each year. For example, the can ask me again how come it wasn’t 2019-2020 annual report should be done. I do not know. I would only available for tabling in the fall of 2020. assume, and we shouldn’t make Thank you, Mr. Chairman. assumptions, but maybe the previous governments didn’t ask for it. Maybe the Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. previous MLAs didn’t ask for it. That’s just a guess, Mr. Chairman. I honestly do Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. not know the answer to that question, Chairman. I thank the minister for that Mr. Chairman. Thank you. update. As the PPD was initially created in 1972, my next question is: how is it Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. that the 2016-17 was the first ever annual report ever produced by the PPD? Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. I’ll move on. Page 11 of the annual report indicates that historically Chairman: Minister Kusugak. retail prices in Nunavut were adjusted annually and over time the specific

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5089 community cost did not meet the actual annual report makes further reference to cost of delivering the services and inequitable pricing, which caused the resulted in inequitable pricing structure Petroleum Products Division to have whereby the PPD did not recover its considerable surpluses, which would direct costs. It further states that in then be transferred to the GN’s addition, the retail pricing structure Consolidated Revenue Fund. If I look included different customer classes such further into the annual report, it shows as the Government of Nunavut, which that in ’16-17 the Petroleum Products was in fact the lowest priced customer Division had a surplus of $15 million, class, which means that the public was which was then transferred over to the subsidizing the GN as the GN was GN. When I read that, I see that the paying essentially less for the price of Petroleum Products Division has been fuel than common customers. overcharging Nunavummiut for fuel and then transferring that excess over to the Nowhere else in the annual report does it Government of Nunavut. My question is: provide any further information about is that still occurring today? Thank you, customer classes. My first question is: Mr. Chairman. has this been corrected? Is the GN customer class still paying less for fuel Chairman: Minister Kusugak. than average consumers? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, it’s not occurring today, Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Mr. Chairman. We work on a revolving fund. The Revolving Funds Act requires Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. that the PPD operate on a break-even Chairman. No, Mr. Chairman. Thank basis. Therefore, unlike most you, Mr. Chairman. government operations, the PPD’s expenses are offset by its revenues. Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. Chairman. Just to expand on that question, what is the GN paying for the Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. price of fuel? Is it the same as the retail Chairman. I understand that the PPD Act price that has been publicized? Thank states that it must operate at a break- you, Mr. Chairman. even profit margin, but since ’16-17, since the PPD transferred over a surplus Chairman: Minister Kusugak. of $15 million, how much of the surplus has been transferred over to the GN in Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Mr. Chairman, I subsequent years? Thank you, Mr. believe it is. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman.

Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Bless you. Chairman. I’ll move on. Page 12 of the

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An Hon. Member: Thank you. Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for that Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. commitment. The reason why I bring up Chairman. I don’t have documents going the fact that naphtha was subsidized by back as far as my colleague is asking other products, when I look at the questions on, but I’m not aware of any, breakdown of the retail pricing on pages Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. 12 and 13 by the different fuel products, Chairman. nowhere in there in that breakdown of the pricing structure is there any mention Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. of the subsidy being built in to help offset the cost of naphtha. When the Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. minister provides us a written response Chairman. I will leave that and come at a later date, would he also provide us back to it at another date. details on how that naphtha subsidy is being built in to the other fuel products? Further in the annual report on page 18 it Thank you, Mr. Chairman. indicates that naphtha is highly subsidized by other products, and I Chairman: Minister Kusugak. would like to enquire if that is still the case today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My colleague is working on Chairman: Minister Kusugak. 2016 documents and I believe that I said I would be providing the latest versions Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. as early as this spring’s sitting. That may Chairman. I don’t know at this point if have the details and changes to the and how much the naphtha is subsidized, issues my colleague is talking about. but I believe it is not. I stand to be corrected, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I would prefer it if my colleague would have a bit of patience in us so we can Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. work out the recent documents and not refer back to the 2016. Those things may Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. have changed. Getting back to why it Chairman. Would the minister be able to wasn’t tabled before, there was no confirm that at a later date through requirement to table the PPD document written correspondence to the before. We have evolved; we have committee? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. changed.

Chairman: Minister Kusugak. I hate to be looking for documents and information that may already be Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. available and that may be available when Chairman. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank we table the document at the time we do, you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. If he could have a bit of patience, I would be more than happy to Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. talk about it when we are working on the more current documents, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have included it in our Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. 2017-18 report, Mr. Chairman. Just for Chairman. I understand that all we have the information of my colleague, we to work with is 2016-17, but that is were not and we are still not mandated to because that is all that we have been table these documents. We are doing it provided. No other committee has ever by courtesy and because of requests, just had an opportunity to review this so that you know, Mr. Chairman. Thank document. I think it is crucial that now you. would be an opportune time, but regardless, the minister stated that this Chairman: Thank you. Next name on information may be provided in the my list, Mr. Main. subsequent annual reports that will be tabled and we might be able to receive Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, that information at a later date. I would Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I’m like to ask the minister if he would be going to refer to the news release from willing to commit to ensuring that that January 10 on GN retail fuel price information will be provided to us. reductions and I’m looking at the Thank you, Mr. Chairman. backgrounder which provides a list of all the fuel prices. Everyone across Nunavut Chairman: Minister Kusugak. pays the same for diesel heating fuel, except for Iqaluit, which is roughly 10 Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Mr. Chairman, if cents cheaper than the rest of the it is not in the upcoming report that I territory. will table, I will ensure my colleagues that there will be a side note with that In terms of the pricing structure, I know information, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. that there has been a long-term move towards a uniform pricing structure Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. across the territory for different products. Can the minister confirm if Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. this is the goal to eventually bring diesel Chairman. Thank you, minister. I’ll heating fuel in line across the entire move on. On page 19 it provides the territory where you would be having one breakdown of the retail price list. In the price for diesel heating fuel for all annual report there is no information on communities? I just wanted to confirm if it on Iqaluit’s retail price list, and since that’s the goal or not. (interpretation) ‘16-17 CGS has annually come out with Thank you, Mr. Chairman. a retail price list and none have provided information regarding the cost of diesel Chairman: Minister Kusugak. for vehicles, diesel for aviation, and gasoline prices. My first question is: Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. why is that information not provided? Chairman. It is the goal of our Thank you, Mr. Chairman. department to do that, to make prices across Nunavut the same as much as we Chairman: Minister Kusugak. can, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Chairman: Mr. Main. does not apply and it’s a uniform pricing structure with every other community in Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, the Kivalliq. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I also noted the discrepancy in the prices I think this is something that is of jet fuel, again, across the whole inequitable and including communities territory. For every community that jet such as Rankin Inlet, for example. It fuel is available, it’s the same price should be either a uniform pricing except for Iqaluit, where it is cheaper by structure across the territory or it’s a approximately 5.5 cents per litre. Can differentiated pricing structure where the the minister confirm whether it is also larger the community the cheaper the the goal for jet fuel is to bring uniform fuel is. It can’t be both. I just wanted to pricing for the whole territory? point out what I feel is an inequity. I (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. would like the minister to, as much as he Chairman. can, commit to looking into this and rectifying it in the upcoming fiscal year Chairman: Minister Kusugak. under the business plan for the PPD. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. That is the goal of our department, Mr. Chairman. Iqaluit Chairman: Minister Kusugak. operates on a break-even model. Its prices are a bit lower for diesel, heating, Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. and jet A-1 due to economies of scale, Chairman. I appreciate my colleague but our goal is to, when possible, make it delving into this a bit. It’s the discussion as even as possible across the board, Mr. that we are having within our department Chairman. That is our goal. Thank you, and point taken, Mr. Chairman. Thank Mr. Chairman. you.

Chairman: Mr. Main. Chairman: Mr. Main.

Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I Thank you, minister. I do recognize that wanted to enquire about the provision of larger communities are indirectly jet fuel. There are a number of Kivalliq subsidizing the smaller communities communities, including Arviat and through passing on their economies of Whale Cove, where jet fuel is not scale. I’ll use Arviat for example. Arviat available. My understanding is that there is one of the larger communities and I’ll are simply no tanks for jet fuel in those note that Arviat does not enjoy the communities, as well as Chesterfield benefits of any of those economies of Inlet, Baker Lake, and Naujaat. scale under the uniform pricing structure. There seems to be one Without going into capital, under the rationale for this particular community PPD’s operations, has there been any that we’re currently in and in the interest or enquiries from the private example of Arviat, no, that rationale sector, aviation sector, any enquiries

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5093 whether that jet fuel will be made exercise we do go through when we’re available in these communities? Have taking a look at tank farm upgrades and they had any input along the lines of so on, Mr. Chairman. We are currently “This would help our operations if you doing that for the community of Arviat can make jet fuel available in more at this time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. communities in the Kivalliq”? I’m talking about Calm Air because they’re Chairman: Mr. Main. basically the one airline in the Kivalliq. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Chairman. Mr. Chairman. Thank you, minister. (interpretation ends) I look forward to Chairman: Minister Kusugak. seeing the results of your work in that area. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In discussions that we’ve had On the business plan page 222, which is with the private sector or in this case an excellent calibre by the way when I Calm Air, there have not been any used to be able to go hunting at one enquiries into having petroleum products point, it mentions “Plan and implement for the aircraft available in those corporate and organizational model for communities that they currently are not the division.” It’s my understanding that available. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. the department is looking at options for the Petroleum Products Division. It’s my Chairman: Mr. Main. understanding that your review or looking into these options will be Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, complete roughly on November 2020. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Is the department open to enquiries or input In terms of moving away from the status from the aviation sector in terms of quo, what are the arguments for moving where they provide jet fuel? away from the status quo in terms of (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. how you run petroleum products? What Chairman. are the issues with the status quo on having this as a division under this Chairman: Minister Kusugak. department? (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, anytime we’re doing Chairman: Minister Kusugak. work on our tank farms or taking a look at upgrading or making changes to our Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Petroleum Products Division or Chairman. There are a few examples of departments within communities, that’s threats or weaknesses, I guess we can one thing we take a look at. In fact we say, under the current PPD regime. It are currently looking at the expansion of includes some things like hidden fuel the tank farm in Arviat to see if it would subsidies, maybe environmental health be viable to put jet fuel availability in and safety standards and capital that community. We’re going through infrastructure. There are a few issues that exercise at the moment and it’s an that brought us to take a look at it, but

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5094 right now as the review goes through, we Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, are trying to weigh if those are enough to Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I’ll create a separate entity or if we work just put that out there as an issue maybe with those to make changes and stay to keep on your radar because there may within the department. Thank you, Mr. be some cases where the subsidy or Chairman. cheaper prices are being taken advantage of. Chairman: Mr. Main. My final question is regarding Bathurst Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Inlet and Umingmaktok. This is your Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I drum removal initiative. It is on your just have a couple of more questions; priorities for this upcoming fiscal year. I’m almost done here. Does this priority item include any work on the tank farm? I believe there is a The prices that you charge for diesel tank farm at one of those communities. I heating fuel are cheaper than the prices can’t remember which one it was. Does you charge for diesel vehicles. It is my this priority mean that the department is understanding that these are the same also going to be doing work on that product, diesel heating and diesel abandoned or legacy tank farm? vehicle. When you look at the contracts (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. for fuel delivery and whatnot across the Chairman. territory, how does the department verify that the subsidy provided under diesel Chairman: Minister Kusugak. heating isn’t being abused? Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Maybe I will ask the question this way: Chairman. Right now our concentration is the division aware of any cases where is on oil drums. It is amazing; we have diesel heating fuel is being used and put removed over 3,700 oil drums to date. into vehicles? Diesel heating fuel which That is an awful lot of drums and that is is cheaper than the vehicle rate, is the where our concentration is at this time. I department aware of any cases where am not aware if we are looking at this may have happened across removing the old tank farm, Mr. Nunavut? (interpretation) Thank you, Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Thank you. This page is just Chairman: Minister Kusugak. an information item only, so I am just going to allow one more member to ask Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. questions on it so we can move on. Mr. Chairman. There is a slight different in Qamaniq. diesel heating fuel and automotive fuel because of the higher taxes. It is more of Mr. Qamaniq: Thank you, Mr. a tax issue, but we are not aware of Chairman, for recognizing me. The anybody abusing it, Mr. Chairman. federal government had initiated the Thank you. carbon tax not too long ago and at one point the Government of Nunavut, one Chairman: Mr. Main. time a few years back, gave out fuel

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5095 rebates of $500 to homeowners once a to finish that process. Thank you, Mr. year. It wasn’t much, but it helped Chairman. tremendously for the homeowners in Nunavut. I wonder why the government Chairman: Mr. Qamaniq. hasn’t visited this issue because of a carbon tax that was initiated by the Mr. Qamaniq: Thank you, Mr. federal government. I don’t see anything Chairman. My last question is: once this on the business plan about a rebate. is finalized, does it mean that CGS will Thank you, Mr. Chairman. no longer budget in this area? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not to pass the buck with the Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Zamboni driver beside me, but this is Chairman. It doesn’t necessarily mean something that finance would be able to that. It just means that we are finalizing answer your question on, Mr. Chairman. this. There may be other projects similar Thank you. to this that come up, but as for this, it is to finalize this, Mr. Chairman. Thank Chairman: Mr. Qamaniq. you.

Mr. Qamaniq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Thank you. We’re done with Chairman. My colleague from Arviat this page, so go back to page J-3. and Whale Cove asked about this, but it Department Summary. Community and says, “Finalize a drum removal initiative Government Services. Total Operations throughout Nunavut” and it talks about and Maintenance, to be Voted. outpost camps. Is this limited to outpost $256,631,000. Agreed? camps or can it also include federal Crown land or Inuit-owned land to Some Members: Agreed. remove oil drums? What exactly do you mean by finalizing this initiative? Can Chairman: Thank you. Do the members you elaborate a little bit further about agree that we have concluded the what you intend to do in finalizing this? Department of Community and Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Government Services?

Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Some Members: Agreed.

Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Any last Chairman. In terms of finalizing this comments from the minister? Minister initiative, we’re planning a drum Kusugak. removal initiative in those communities of Bathurst Inlet and Umingmaktok for Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. 2020. That would pretty much close our Chairman. I appreciate the questions and work on drum removal. As I said, we comments that were brought forth by my have removed over 3,700 drums to date colleagues. and this initiative we have right now is

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We have a massive department with a lot Bill 39 – Appropriation (Operations & of staff and they do a tremendous job. I Maintenance) Act, 2020-2021 – just want to take this moment to Education – Consideration in commend each and every single one of Committee them. They do a lot of hard work and they do it very well, to the best of their Chairman (Mr. Rumbolt): Good ability, Mr. Chairman. Our department is morning. I would like to call the growing and moving forward and it’s committee meeting back to order. The exciting. It’s exciting to be the minister next department that we will be dealing responsible for this department. I have with is the Department of Education. I been privileged to have some of the best will ask Minister Joanasie: do you have staff across this territory and I thank officials that you would like to appear them for it. before the committee? Minister Joanasie.

I also want to thank Mr. Seeley for Hon. David Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. having sat here in my left winger and Chairman. Yes. Thank you. then we had him changed out. I would like to than my colleague sitting beside Chairman: Does the committee agree me for being able to answer some of the for the witnesses to go to the witness questions we had before us. table?

My commitment is to keep you as much Some Members: Agreed. informed as I can. I gave that commitment when I sat here two years Chairman: Thank you. Sergeant-at- ago and it continues today. Please don’t Arms, if you could please escort the wait for COW to happen to ask me witnesses in. questions. Let’s keep this communication flowing for the Thank you. Now, for the record, betterment of Nunavummiut. Thank you, Minister Joanasie, if you could introduce Mr. Chairman. your witnesses and then proceed on into your opening comments, please. >>Applause Minister Joanasie.

Chairman: I would like to thank you Hon. David Joanasie: Thanks again, also for answering the committee Mr. Chairman. To my left, to your right members’ questions. I’m sure they had is my deputy Kathy Okpik and to my more to ask, but they will ask you in the right is Abrahim Suleiman, who is the future. comptroller for the department.

Sergeant-at-Arms, can you escort the (interpretation) Mr. Chairman, I am witnesses out? I’m asking the members happy to appear before you and the to stay in their seats so that we go on to Committee of the Whole today to the next department. Thank you. discuss the 2020-21 proposed budget of the Department of Education. For the 2020-21 fiscal year, my department is requesting a total of $232,873,000. This

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5097 reflects a collective increase of $1,998,000 to meet the provisions of the $9,240,000 from the 2019-2020 main Nunavut Teachers Association collective estimates. agreement, which expires on June 30, 2021. The increase in teachers’ salaries As of April 1, 2020, the Financial is 2 percent for the school year 2020-21. Assistance for Nunavut Students program, better known as FANS, that Lastly, the Department of Education is currently resides with the Department of also requesting $5,326,000 to meet its Family Services will be transferred to funding obligations to make sure the the Department of Education. To allow territory’s student-educator ratio for comparison, the numbers from the complies with the Education Act. The FANS program are reflected in the 2019- student-educator ratio is calculated 2020 figures of the Department of yearly based on actual student Education. enrolments and is used to determine the number of teaching staff for each (interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman, as community. part of the transfer of responsibilities of the FANS program, a business case has The funds requested will be used to been submitted that seeks to bring support 64.5 teaching positions that have $1,916,000 of new grants and been hired in prior years, but due to contributions monies to the Department vacant positions in prior years, the of Education that will enhance the FANS department was required to fund the program. The proposed FANS program positions from within its approved enhancements in financial aid serve budget. three purposes: Mr. Chairman, great strides are being 1. Reducing the out-of-pocket expenses made in our education system to expand incurred by students, for example, services and supports available to our normal living expenses like students, ensuring that those resources transportation, food, etcetera, thereby we do have are being used to maximum lowering financial barriers; effect. I thank the members for their continued support of the Department of 2. Increasing supports for students’ Education, which enables us to carry out material needs, such as tuition and our mandate. With sufficient resources related educational fees, so they can we will together provide the best better focus on their studies, education for our students. increasing retention and program completion; and finally, I would be happy to respond to questions from the committee. Thank you, Mr. 3. Improving supports for part-time Chairman. students, creating more opportunities for Nunavummiut to pursue post- Chairman: Thank you, Minister secondary education while remaining Joanasie. Does the chair of the standing employed. committee have any opening comments? Please proceed, Ms. Nakashuk. In addition, my department has allocated

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Ms. Nakashuk: Thank you, Mr. implemented, and members look Chairman. As the Chair of the Standing forward to receiving details on the Committee on Social Wellness, I am anticipated changes and how they will pleased to make opening comments as impact future expenditures and resource we begin deliberations on the proposed allocations in the areas of staffing and 2020-21 budget of the Department of support. Education. Mr. Chairman, during his appearance Mr. Chairman, the Department of before the standing committee, the Education’s proposed 2020-21 minister also indicated that additional operations and maintenance budget is funding would be allocated in 2020-21 almost $233 million, which represents an towards inclusive education with the increase of $17 million from its 2019- contracting of specialists to visit all 2020 budget. The standing committee schools across the territory and to notes that this increase in funding is provide services in such areas as primarily due to the transfer of the physical therapy, occupational therapy, Financial Assistance for Nunavut and speech and language therapy. Students program from the Department Members support this initiative and will of Family Services, the addition of be interested to receive updates on how staffing positions to meet student- the results of the relevant diagnostic tests educator ratio requirements, as well as and psychological or physical an increase in compensation and benefits assessments will impact the allocations in accordance with the terms department’s future plans for meeting its of the collective agreement with the inclusive education obligations. Nunavut Teachers Association. The standing committee continues to Mr. Chairman, despite the planned supports the department’s collaboration addition of new staffing positions, the with Nunavut Arctic College to provide standing committee notes that the additional training to student support department continues to struggle to fill assistants, who play an essential role in teaching positions. Members encourage the delivery of inclusive education the minister in his efforts to recruit more across Nunavut’s schools. Nunavummiut into the teaching professions, and specifically supports Mr. Chairman, the standing committee initiatives to recruit graduating high recognizes that attendance in school school students as well as encouraging remains one of the critical factors non-teaching education staff to pursue impacting the success of our students. teaching careers. While the committee appreciates that the department is implementing its family During the minister’s appearance before engagement program through such the standing committee to discuss his activities as the establishment of a draft business plan and main estimates website, members encourage the for 2020-21, members were given to minister to explore outreach options understand that a new formula for which directly engage those families determining student-educator ratios in with non-attending children. Nunavut schools is ready to be

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The standing committee was pleased to who wish to improve their educational note that the department continues to qualifications, such as obtaining their offer the Young Parents Stay Learning High School Diploma under the new program which enables parents in high Pathways to Adult Secondary School school to continue their education by initiative. The standing committee is in providing financial supports for child full support of all initiatives which care. encourage and assist adult Nunavummiut in furthering their educational or career Members of the standing committee opportunities. continue to have concerns regarding the delivery of early childhood programs in Mr. Chairman, that concludes my Nunavut’s communities and encourage opening remarks. Individual members the minister to move forward with his may have questions and comments as we department’s plans to review and amend proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. or replace the current Child Day Care Act. Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Nakashuk. I’ll now ask members if they have any Members appreciate the member’s brief general comments for the willingness to consider the Department of Education. Mr. implementation of full-time Lightstone. kindergarten. Members recognize that not all communities are currently in a Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. position to undertake such an initiative Chairman. Once again, I want to repeat given space and staffing capacities. The an issue or a concern that I raised last committee looks forward to updates in year, which I was not alone in this area. addressing, I would like to mention, the fact that once again, the Department of Mr. Chairman, the Department of Education has not brought forward any Education will be assuming movement on incorporating funding for responsibility for the Financial food programs in our schools. Assistance for Nunavut Students program that has been under the I believe that if children are to be jurisdiction of the Department of Family successful in achieving their education, Services. giving them all the tools necessary, including ensuring that they have During the minister’s appearance before nutritious meals and the energy to focus the standing committee to review his on their education, is one of them. draft main estimates for 2019-2020, members appreciated receiving Mr. Chairman, again, repeating what I information on the department’s plans to said last year, I am extremely enhance the FANS program which will disappointed that another budget has better support Nunavummiut who are come forward without any new pursuing post-secondary studies. initiatives for food programs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Department of Education also offers programs aimed at supporting adults Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Lightstone.

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Mr. Main. Ms. Towtongie: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question to the Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, department is the business plan for 2020- Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I 23 indicates that the work on the family would like to echo my colleague’s engagement campaign is ongoing. I’m comments. I don’t want to repeat what curious: what are the priorities for this he said, but I believe that it’s a well- campaign and what types of resources known demonstrable fact that when are being used to make it a success? children are hungry, they cannot learn Thank you, Mr. Chairman. properly. It appears to be a bit of a jurisdictional issue between the Chairman: Thank you. Minister Department of Family Services and the Joanasie. Department of Education. Hon. David Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. It’s concerning that we have low Chairman. I thank the member for the attendance and low educational question. The family engagement attainment. I think that situation, the strategy is still under development. It’s attendance and academic achievement, anticipated that we will be rolling this could be positively impacted by out in the very near future, but the intent provision of school food programs. I is to get families and communities would like to again encourage the involved around students’ participation department to look into this and I think and how they fit into the education that we will have some detailed system. There are different ways we can questions on this matter on the approach this. This is trying to get all the appropriate page. (interpretation) Thank parties involved. you, Mr. Chairman. Just as an example, for students in high Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Main. No school particularly, some students might more general comments? Moving on. have classes only a certain part of the Before we proceed, the Department of day and other times when they’re not in Education has nine branches that need school, they like to work. However, to approval. A number of these branches ensure that everybody who is in school have fairly small budget amounts in is supposed to be in school, some them. I’m going to exercise my right as businesses have opted to ensure that they Chairman and only allow one round of don’t hire any students that are supposed questioning per page, with the exception to be in school. of G-10, where it’s quite a large budget and I may allow extra questions at that That’s just an example of how we want time. to try to engage families and the community to ensure that when a student We will start off with page G-4. is supposed to be in school, they are. Directorate. Total Operations and That’s one approach, but there are many Maintenance, to be Voted. $3,920,000. different, multi-pronged approaches that Ms. Towtongie. we’re trying to get families, communities, elders, and the business community involved so that students are

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5101 in school when they should be. Thank are some of the items that would go into you, Mr. Chairman. the tool kit. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman: Thank you, Minister Chairman: Thank you, Minister Joanasie. Ms. Towtongie. Joanasie. Mr. Main.

Ms. Towtongie: Thank you, Mr. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Chairman. My final question and I thank Mr. Chairman. Good morning, minister. the minister for that, but my final question, we do have an issue with (interpretation ends) I just wanted to attendance right across Nunavut and the follow up on my colleague’s questions business plan for this year, 2020-23, on the attendance policy work. Can the indicates that the department has been minister confirm whether this work will developing a registration and attendance be looking at examples of things that tool kit for district education authorities. have been done in other jurisdictions to I’m curious: what is included in this tool improve attendance, specifically in areas kit and how will it assist district with big attendance problems such as education authorities in addressing Nunavut, such as inner city student attendance? My final question, neighbourhoods or developing Mr. Chairman. Thank you. countries? I believe that when it comes to attendance, we’re on line with those Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Towtongie. types of areas. (interpretation) Thank Minister Joanasie. you, Mr. Chairman.

Hon. David Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Main. Chairman. This is another initiative in Minister Joanasie. relation to the family and community engagement. The DEAs want to provide Hon. David Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. support for registration and attendance Chairman. Yes, we can look into this policy. In some cases where there are not further in terms of what it encompasses. any policies in place, we ensure that I believe, as part of this process, they do there’s a template to use, but this is all look at an environmental scan or inter- towards having more students in our jurisdictional initiatives, taking into schools, again, when they should be. account similar contexts with our remoteness in Nunavut, I suppose, We have hired a contractor to help us looking at other jurisdictions and with this attendance and registration populations that are comparable to policy. Again, it would have multiple Nunavut and how we can benefit from items to help foster attendance what’s already out there. Thank you, Mr. registration and those practices in place Chairman. to support students, families, and everyone involved to know what needs Chairman: Thank you, Minister to take place and understand if a student Joanasie. Mr. Main. is not attending or has dropped out, what are the processes that trigger re-engaging Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, them and those types of things. Those Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5102 minister mentioned a contract that had would like to suggest to the minister that been awarded. Once that contract is as you are working with your contractor completed, what will the department be on this attendance file, you keep all left with? Is there an action plan? Is options on the table and that includes there a series of recommendations or providing financial incentives to options that will be presented? encourage attendance. You could call it Specifically I’m interested in what cash for kids or something like that, incentives can be offered to parents in whatever you want to call it. It has been order to see their children attend school. used in other jurisdictions and it’s just a (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. suggestion from me that that should be Chairman. explored on the table.

Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Main. On the ten-year education and Minister Joanasie. recruitment strategy, I wanted to ask about the educator recruitment and Hon. David Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. retention strategy. I may be on the wrong Chairman. We hope to have a strategy in page number, but if the minister has a place to address the attendance and status update in terms of the registration and overall student development of that strategy, I would achievement and the intent is to have a appreciate it. (interpretation) Thank you, greater enrolment, higher graduation Mr. Chairman. rates overall in the long term. I keep going back to what’s in it for the family, Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Main. the student. Minister Joanasie.

I think this is where we need to think Hon. David Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. about the benefit of an education system, Chairman. We have composed a how it has an impact positively in our committee that would help support this lives and being, I suppose, open to strategy moving forward and it includes how… . The department is there to Nunavut Arctic College and two support students in their learning divisions in our department, Advanced development and their journey and their Education and Educator Development. life. How do we fit into that as That’s in place, but the strategy would individuals, as a collective, making sure outline ways to retain, recruit, and that students and families understand promote the teaching profession for our how we can better fit into the education educators for the short, medium and long system? term, and specifically looking at Inuit educators, tying into… . I don’t know if that covered the question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The strategy would be a three-pronged approach. The first focus is the short- Chairman: Thank you, Minister term needs like immediate, second Joanasie. Mr. Main. would focus on the longer term and the sustainable development of Inuktut- Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, speaking teachers, and lastly, retention Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I strategies on how to keep our teachers

Friday, February 28, 2020 Nunavut Hansard 5103 teaching in the field. Thank you, Mr. see. Chairman. I guess my first question is, as FANS is Chairman: Thank you, Minister in transition and will be moving into Joanasie. Mr. Main. Education effective April 1, your opening comments state that a business Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, case was submitted. My first question is: Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) My who submitted this business case? Was it final question is: when do you anticipate the Department of Education or the this strategy being completed? Department of Family Services? Thank (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Lightstone. Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Main. Minister Joanasie. Minister Joanasie. Hon. David Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. Hon. David Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It was the Department of Chairman. We have tied this recruitment Family Services. Thank you, Mr. and retention strategy with our ten-year Chairman. overall departmental strategic planning session. They will coincide with each Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Lightstone. other and that is anticipated to take a little longer than if we had just done the Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. recruitment and retention strategy by Chairman. My next question was, during itself. They go, I would say, hand in the minister’s appearance before this hand. At this time I can’t say when we standing committee, we had requested can expect that to roll out, but it is still information providing a comparison of an ongoing process at this time. Thank these new initiatives to the former you, Mr. Chairman. allowances provided under FANS. I would like to ask why that information Chairman: Thank you, Minister wasn’t provided. Thank you, Mr. Joanasie. Mr. Lightstone. Chairman.

Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Lightstone. Chairman. Good afternoon, minister and Minister Joanasie. your officials. Hon. David Joanasie: If you give me a First, I would like to thank you for the minute. new additions that you have put forward under FANS, Financial Assistance for Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize. Nunavut Students. This is definitely a It might have been a minor oversight and move in the right direction and we will look at providing the committee something that a number of us have been with the details. Thank you, Mr. pushing. Once again I applaud that Chairman. initiative and look forward to seeing the positive benefits that I’m sure we will

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Chairman: Thank you, Minister Continuing on to Item 21. Third Reading Joanasie. Mr. Lightstone. of Bills. There are none. Going to Item 22. (interpretation ends) Orders of the Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. Day. Mr. Clerk. Chairman. I thank the minister for his response. That information would be Item 22: Orders of the Day beneficial to us passing this budget. Clerk (Mr. Quirke): Thank you, Mr. I do believe that my colleague next to Speaker. Just a reminder that the me can hear my stomach grumbling and Management and Services Board meets I am definitely getting a bit hungry. I do at two o’clock this afternoon in the have further questions, but I would like Tuktu Boardroom. to put forward a motion to report progress. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Orders of the Day for March 2:

Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Lightstone. 1. Prayer There’s a motion on the floor to report 2. Ministers’ Statements progress. The motion is not debatable. All those in favour. Opposed. Motion 3. Members’ Statements carried. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could 4. Returns to Oral Questions please escort the witnesses out. I will now rise to report progress to the 5. Recognition of Visitors in the Speaker. Thank you. Gallery

Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. 6. Oral Questions (interpretation ends) Report of the 7. Written Questions Committee of the Whole. Mr. Rumbolt. 8. Returns to Written Questions Item 20: Report of the Committee of 9. Replies to Opening Address the Whole 10. Petitions Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 11. Responses to Petitions Your committee has been considering Bill 39 and would like to report progress. 12. Reports of Standing and Special Mr. Speaker, I move that the Report of Committees on Bills and Other the Committee of the Whole be agreed to. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Matters

13. Tabling of Documents An Hon. Member: Agreed. 14. Notices of Motions Speaker (interpretation): Please wait. 15. Notices of Motions for First There is a motion on the floor. Is there a seconder? The seconder is Mr. Akoak. Reading of Bills The motion is in order. To the motion. 16. Motions All those in favour. Opposed. The motion is carried. 17. First Reading of Bills

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18. Second Reading of Bills However, please know that the House stands adjourned until Monday, March 19. Consideration in Committee of 2, at 1:30 p.m. the Whole of Bills and Other (interpretation ends) Sergeant-at-Arms. Matters

 Bill 39 >>House adjourned at 11:51  Bill 40 20. Report of the Committee of the Whole 21. Third Reading of Bills 22. Orders of the Day Thank you.

Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. Before we adjourn, I would like to thank our pages here and their chaperone, Tanya Kenalogak. Please give them applause.

>>Applause

Sheba Nattaq.

>>Applause

And their chaperone, Mary Owingayak.

>>Applause

Also the pages from Iqaluit who will be here next week are Alexis Vincent and Maye Vincent.

>>Applause

Sergeant-at-Arms.

You probably thought you wouldn’t meet again.

>>Laughter