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Public Session PUBLIC SESSION MINUTES OF ORAL EVIDENCE taken before HIGH SPEED RAIL COMMITTEE On the HIGH SPEED RAIL (LONDON – WEST MIDLANDS) BILL Wednesday 11 March 2015 (Morning) In Committee Room 5 PRESENT: Mr Robert Syms (In the Chair) Mr Henry Bellingham Sir Peter Bottomley Ian Mearns _____________ IN ATTENDANCE Mr Timothy Mould QC, Lead Counsel, Department for Transport Witnesses: Mr David Wilson Ms Jane Price Mr Nachhatar Kalirai Mrs Paula Sage Mr Paul Pennifer Mr Robert Young _____________ IN PUBLIC SESSION INDEX Subject Page David Wilson Submissions by Mr Wilson 3 Response by Mr Mould QC 18 Ms Jane Price, Mr Nash Kalirai and others Submissions by Mr Kalirai 20 Response from Mr Mould 30 Paula Sage, Paul Pennifer and Robert Young Submissions from Mrs Sage 37 Submissions from Mr Pennifer 40 Submissions from Mr Young 43 2 (At 09.30) 1. CHAIR: Order, order. Welcome, good morning to the HS2 Select Committee. We are likely to be sitting until quarter to 12.00, maybe just before 12.00. We may today, because there’s three of us, will be here sitting at 1.00 and go through until 2.00 when we have a private session which shouldn’t be too long, just to have a chat with the Buckinghamshire MPs about our visits, post-election. Then we will go again, finish the rest of the petitioners off. So I am afraid it’s going to be a dash and a quick sandwich, Mr Mould, today. Got to get on with the business. We start today with Mr Wilson, and representing Renewell Limited. There we are, in London? Buckinghamshire? Mr David Wilson 2. MR MOULD QC (DfT): Mr Wilson is at Windrush, Tilehouse Lane in Denham, about one kilometre from the central line of the route. If we just put up the next slide, P5369, you get a sense of the local area on plan. If you remember, off to the north-west, we have the tunnel construction site at West Hyde. 3. CHAIR: Do you want – carry on, Mr Wilson. 4. MR WILSON: Yes, okay. Good morning and thank you to everyone for listening to my petition. I feel in quite a good mood today, the sun is shining and I heard some really good news yesterday that the Heathrow spur is going to be – not going to be anymore; it’s going to be chopped. I heard the proposers say that it’s not a done-dea l for HS2 and also, this is the first time I’ve worn my business suit for 18 years and it still fits, so I’m feeling pretty chipper today. 5. CHAIR: Do you want me to adjourn now! 6. MR WILSON: Yes, sir! I am a business owner and joint owner-occupier of a three-bedroom semi-detached house on Tilehouse Lane and I’ve lived there, basically for the last 25 years with my partner and 18 year old daughter. We chose Tilehouse Lane to live in because it was semi-rural, quiet, peaceful, tranquil location which has become extremely important for the business. Since being made redundant 18 years ago – hence the business suit quip – I retrained in order to run a small healthcare business from our home in order to help people with their health and wellbeing in the local area. 3 I practice Chinese medicine, and acupuncture and teach Tai Chi and Qigong. The tranquillity and ease of access are important to my patients. This is because of the range of patients I help, people from all ages, from new born babies to frail people in their 90s, with a variety of health issues, ranging from physical through to mental and emotional problems. Interestingly in recent years, hopefully it’s not because of HS2, most cases present with an additional element of stress. So, hence the importance of the location, reasonable traffic flow, and ease of access. The areas of concern which will adversely and directly affect the business and therefore the future livelihood of your petitioner are shown in the next slide 2, please? 7. These are the main points in my petition that I want to go through today. Some of the things have changed since I have put in the petition, obviously. Costs of construction have been applied to these points, but no economic value seems to have been attributed. By this I mean, for example – 8. SIR PETER BOTTOMLEY: This is beyond our scope. 9. MR WILSON : What, beyond the scope? But surely the economic value of the – 10. SIR PETER BOTTOMLEY: I think it should be obvious – and I’m not going to stop you – it should be obvious to every petitioner that Parliament has passed the Bill at second reading, and we need to stick to the things which are specific to the people who are making the petition, rather than more general points. So if you can be very brief on this bit and get onto the things which are specific to you, that would be in keeping with what we are supposed to be doing, please? 11. MR WILSON: I will go through very quickly – I do think it’s very important to myself – 12. CHAIR: It is, but we can’t cancel the project. Our job is just to 13. MR WILSON: I am not suggesting you cancel the project, I understand that the Bill has been passed. I do understand that. 14. So by this I mean, for example, what is the value in monetary terms of, say, ancient woodland or wildlife, or the degradation of the area to the community? The thousands who use the HOAC recreational facility that would be displaced? What is the 4 value of time of people stuck in traffic, when patients are stuck in traffic, and the stress and ill-health ensuing from the proposed HS2 line. However due to the way that HS2 engaged with the petitioners it is sometimes difficult to assess all the consequences of the scheme. For example, I received an extra 100 pages of extra information to assimilate two working days before the hearing today; and also, I even I received a letter yesterday suggesting I look at further information. As a consequence, I still feel that I lack information about important aspects of the proposed scheme, and its construction that are likely to have adverse impacts on me. However, I will do my best and I would like to set the background and the concerns raised and then my proposed solutions. 15. Next slide please? As I said, we run a small wellness business from our property, helping many people from all walks of life, mostly within a radius of 20 miles of our property. I was hoping my family, who also have strong views on this project would be here today to put their views, but they’re at a university interview today; maybe it’s just as well. The business and home are located at the southern end of Tilehouse Lane; the northern end has been designated as a large construction site, a workers’ residential site, and the entrance to the tunnel under the M25 from the Colne Valley viaduct; and also the major focus for the works in the area. I have also noted there are not many small, one-person businesses who appear to have put in a petition, so I feel I may well be representing their interests as well. I can understand why, because the task is onerous, stressful, time-consuming, which means loss of earnings for time spent on this. With no resources, except oneself, especially in time and money for a business such as mine, where I exchange time for money. For example, I’m not selling on the internet, the business does not run itself and if I am not with a patient I do not get paid. Many small businesses will not have had the courage, know-how, resources or endurance to spend the last five years – and I believe it’s five years today – dealing with this incredibly stressful situation. It is difficult for me to spend the time in the evenings, weekends, to take out time for my business to go to meetings and lose income. For example, to be here today, I have to close my practice and again, earn nothing. But it’s important that the business survives, not only for me, my family, friends, the community and other business owners, but of course, for my patients, so I can continue to help them with the service they need when they are feeling unwell or vulnerable: in short, providing a valuable service for the local area. 5 16. In addition to this, I am approaching retirement age and would like to sell the business as a going concern towards my pension, and I am also concerned about the house, that the house has been devalued and the business put in jeopardy both now and in the future, because of the proposed works which are scheduled to happen over the next 10 years or so. The effects of this are devastating to me and my family, especially as I am nearing retirement. The business has already suffered because of the time taken out from running the business to review and understand the complexities of the HS2 proposition, and mitigate the immediate and future effects on the business, the property and my retirement plans. 17. So I have a passion to help and value everything around me, and I’m concerned about not only myself, but also our community, our ecology, and extending to everything along the line.
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