North Shore Area Transit Plan PHASE 2: Appendix 3 – Stakeholder Visioning Workshop Notes
October 2011
January 25, 2011 Session
Meeting notes from a North Shore Area Transit Plan (NSATP), Stakeholder Visioning Workshop, held Tuesday, January 25, 2011, at the Pinnacle Hotel, 138 Victory Way, North Vancouver BC
PRESENT: (From the attendance sheets)
Table 1 – Facilitator George Sali, TransLink Hansworth Secondary School – Road Safety and Parent Advisory Committee (PAC) Grouse Mountain Resorts Ltd. Lonsdale Quay Market Corp. Blueridge Community Association City of North Vancouver Social Planning Advisory Committee
Table 2 – Facilitator Matt Craig, TransLink Hansworth Secondary School – Road Safety and PAC Lonsdale Quay Market Corp. Vancouver Coastal Health Blueridge Community Association West Vancouver Seniors Centre
Table 3 – Facilitator Graeme Brown, TransLink ICBC NSATP PAC Member Lynn Valley Community Association PAC for North Vancouver School District #44 Advisory Committee on Disability Issues
Table 4 – Facilitator Jeff Deby, TransLink Lonsdale Citizens’ Association (CCA-CNV) CARA – Courthouse Area Residents Association Capilano Students Union North Vancouver PAC Edgemont Community Association
Table 5 – Michelle Babiuk, TransLink Lonsdale Citizens Association NSATP PAC Member North Vancouver City Library District of North Vancouver’s Community Services Advisory Committee Lions Bay Representative Queen Mary Elementary School
North Shore Area Transit Plan 2 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3a
Table 6 – Facilitator, Andrew Curran, TransLink Lynn Valley Community Association District of North Vancouver’s Community Services Advisory Committee Capilano Community Services Society Edgemont Community Association/FONVCA
ALSO PRESENT: Susanne Booth, TransLink Andrew Brooke, TransLink, Facilitator Susan Campbell, Corporate Consulting, Recording Secretary Kate Grossman, TransLink Brian Mills, TransLink Teresa O’Reilly, TransLink Jim Prokop, TransLink
The North Shore Area Transit Plan, Stakeholder Visioning Workshop, commenced at 6:08 p.m.
Workshop Objectives: • To get input from a variety of stakeholders on what will become a long-standing vision for transit on the North Shore; and, for eventual development into a long-term transit area plan. • Provide an opportunity for groups to hear what others have to say and listen to their concerns and challenges. ______
1. INTRODUCTION AND WELCOME Andrew Brooke, TransLink and Facilitator for the workshop welcomed everyone, reviewed the agenda for the workshop and reviewed the objectives for the workshop.
2. NSATP BACKGROUNDER Jim Prokop, TransLink provided a power point presentation regarding the background to the NSATP.
3. GAME 1 INTRODUCTION – NO FUNDING LIMIT Teresa O’Reilly provided an introduction to Game 1.
4. GAME 1 PLAYED – WHAT DO YOU WANT AND WHERE? All participants played Game 1.
Refreshment Break
North Shore Area Transit Plan 3 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
5. GAME 1 FINDING – FACILITATOR REPORT OUT AND NOTES FROM THE FLIP CHARTS (integrated into the report out)
Table 1
• SeaBus – improved frequency particularly on Sundays and holidays • Phibbs Exchange – Park and Ride should be reopened. There were concerns expressed about safety and a request for more amenities. • Grouse Mountain – request for increased service particularly on Sundays and holidays; and, improved connection to Lonsdale Quay • Light rapid transit between Ambleside and Phibbs Exchange (current infrastructure) • Improved routing from Deep Cove • North Shore – improved linkages to downtown, SFU and Metrotown • Less transfers • Generally improved facilities and amenities
Summary
• Span of service • Frequency • New routes/links • Amenities • Expand routes • Less transfers • Improve facilities (Park and Ride)
Table 2
• Where is future growth and development (+demographics)? • Longer trips • East/west! • Education is important • Improve east/west connections along the North Shore • More direct connections and not having to transfer between services • Interest in connecting to big educational centers of SFU and UBC campuses • Improved coverage of existing North Shore and more smaller buses (shuttles) • Seasonal express service to Seymour and Cypress Mountain • New SeaBus • Highway 1 bus
North Shore Area Transit Plan 4 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
Table 3
• Concern expressed that future land use doesn’t reflect First Nations developments • Core services and east west connections need to be improved – rapid bus service and improved SeaBus service • Additional on-demand service (10 minute response time) • Concern about frequency of routes and transfer times • Better communication between School Board and TransLink
Table 4
• Believe that main infrastructure needs to be added from Horseshoe Bay to Deep Cove (using existing rail right-of-ways) – very advantageous to cross North Shore and service ferry terminal and Whistler • More creative use of water connections – multiple connection points on the North Shore to downtown (smaller 50-passenger boats, very flexible) • Serve ferries, Sea to Sky – not subject to traffic congestion • Better service up and down Lonsdale • More frequent service and capacity from Cap U to a number of destinations including Phibbs Exchange • Rapid bus following Highway 1 – join Horseshoe Bay to 2nd Narrows one branch to BCIT and one branch to Cap U • With respect to the idea of rapid bus on Highway 1 would need park and rides • School service was a problem – going to school or leaving and a number of groups would benefit from increased capacity and more service frequent times • Seasonal service connecting Grouse Mountain and Capilano Suspension Bridge to Lonsdale Quay • Community shuttles – more widely spread out particularly on Lonsdale Quay • RRT – Horseshoe Bay to Deep Cove
Table 5
• East/west connections were important but lots of north/south connections were also important (for example residential neighbourhoods and Lions Bay) • Regional connections especially over 2nd Narrows Bridge to Expo Line, east side of downtown and more direct service to UBC • Span of service was seen important particularly late night service to downtown • Increased frequency was important but not necessarily every 15 minutes, for example 1 hour to ½ hour • Need limited stops (rapid but less frequent service) • Rail connection to Squamish
North Shore Area Transit Plan 5 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
Table 6
• Initially there was some contention around no funding constraints with the suggestion that Personalized Rapid Transit (PRT) could on demand pick up and deliver people to their destination. This would be instant and could perhaps be provided by taxis. • Bring back street cars. Why street cars? Electric, lower operating costs and emissions. Local service – Lonsdale to Lynn Valley, Lonsdale to Capilano, Lonsdale to West Vancouver and Lonsdale to Seymour. Note: Frequent bus or street car doesn’t matter as long as it’s frequent. • School route needed from Norgate to Edgemont to William Griffen Community Centre • Phibbs Exchange to Lynn Valley – direct east/west cross town bus terminates at Grouse Mountain • More SeaBuses and more connections to more places • Local frequent street car from Deep Cove to Horseshoe Bay and up Lynn Valley and up Lonsdale • Direct upper level cross town bus and up to Grouse Mountain • Phibbs Exchange – chaos! No lines on lot – also need lot on east side with pedestrian connections to avoid mess • Need to locate a few strategic park and rides – particularly one on the east side of highway at Phibbs Exchange • Rapid bus to SFU from Phibbs Exchange • West Coast Express extension across 2nd Narrows and then low-level route and connecting to Squamish (West Coast Express type service) • More frequent flexible type service in neighbourhoods during peak hours i.e. from British Properties, etc. • Water – SeaBus to Port Moody?
6. GAME 2 – INTRODUCTION – WE HAVE A BUDGET Teresa O’Reilly provided an introduction to Game 2.
7. GAME 2 PLAYED – RESOURCES ARE LIMITED, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? All participants played Game 2.
8. GAME 2 FINDING – FACILITATOR REPORT OUT AND FLIP CHART COMMENTS (integrated into the report out)
Table 1
• Network – wanted to improve frequency between North Shore and Vancouver • New route – Lonsdale east to Phibbs Exchange via Highway • Improved frequency of SeaBus and routes across the Lions Gate Bridge • Improve east/west connections - north of Edgemont Village has to have improved east/west connections and could be met by local service routes (community shuttles) • Rapid bus transit between Lonsdale and Phibbs Exchange and park and ride at Phibbs Exchange
• Improve frequency between Lonsdale and Park Royal (east/west) and improve frequency between Park Royal and Ambleside • Park and Ride – Phibbs Exchange North Shore Area Transit Plan 6 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
Table 2
• A lot of discussion around future network and improving east/west connections • Interested in how far east/west travel connection needs to extend • Improve local connections (local trips within communities) • Upper east/west route (Highway 1) • Good discussion about connections and transferring and improving that experience • Big focus on east/west and Highway 1 • Disjointed cross North Shore to downtown • Low density/low demand areas need more coverage, less frequent, new vehicle type • Improved SeaBus service to every 10-minutes and better transfer cross north Shore • More local routes to local neighbourhoods – Mont Royal • Transfers to existing services • Good discussion about need to improve the coverage of transit and possibly the use of smaller vehicles
Table 3
• Extend to distribute service was discussed and discussion focused on major corridors and areas that will densify • Logical and direct east/west • Concern regarding travel time from Horseshoe Bay to Lonsdale • Improved facilities at SeaBus and Phibbs Exchange – Phibbs Exchange and Lonsdale Terminal needs to be “friendlier” • Improved SeaBus service – extension of existing 15 minute frequency • More shelters for services in lower density areas (seniors!) • Specialty school-oriented services because of multi-campus enrolment (alternating and mid-day) • Improve bus stop accessibility • Amenable to Game 1 concept of on-demand services • Does concentrate investment and higher order services on high density corridors • Suggestion to reroute 257 via Highway 1 to Lonsdale and improved connections for West Vancouver
Table 4
• Lonsdale and Phibbs Exchange got a lot of attention • Want a route joining 15th and Lonsdale, down Marine Drive, Lions Gate Bridge to downtown – BUT limited stops for North Shore portion only
• Lonsdale – recognize need for SeaBus every 10-minutes, more frequent service up and down Lonsdale and to Lynn Valley • Join Lonsdale Quay and connecting through Phibbs Exchange to Deep Cove • Recognize that there is a lot of traffic going both ways on 2nd Narrows and traffic coming to the North Shore can be heavy and some of that can be captured and joined – peak hour only flex bus lane on 2nd Narrows Bridge
North Shore Area Transit Plan 7 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
• Increase service to Harbourside • Single-seat frequent service downtown Vancouver to 15th Lonsdale • Build more park and ride at Phibbs Exchange • Boost frequency and capacity on Lonsdale, extend to Lynn Valley via 29th (connects upper Lonsdale and Lynn Valley also) • Joining Dundarave to north front of Lions Gate Bridge; anticipated transfer to frequent bus to downtown Vancouver • Harbourside join to frequent stop at Marine Drive – give area more transit access • Slightly improved service to Lions Gate Hospital • Limited stops on Marine Drive segment only • 2nd Narrows Bridge – service shown facilities transfers to Station, Millennium Line, Cap U, Phibbs Exchange
Table 5
• East/west service – 1st priority Marine Drive (east of Maplewood and west of Dundarave Drive) although no consensus was reached (one dissenter). • North/south connections were important – Lonsdale and east of Lonsdale. Dense connection of north/south routes on Lonsdale and east of Lonsdale is a priority. • Dense network of frequent service preferred over of spine of rapid transit. Moderately dense network of moderately frequent service is preferred over a spine of high capacity/high frequency service, i.e. FTN and local bus instead of BRT and RRT). • 3rd SeaBus is desired. SeaBus service expansion a priority but no tradeoffs could be achieved to make that happen • Disagreement over whether increased service to Lions Bay was a priority.
Table 6
• Strong consensus – two priorities • 1st priority – good core skeleton network of frequent rapid bus from (a) Ambleside to Deep Cove; (b) Phibbs Exchange to Lynn Valley along 29th to Grouse Mountain; (c) Lonsdale to Lynn Valley; and (d) Phibbs Exchange to Cap U • 2nd priority – increased frequency on SeaBus. New more frequent SeaBus – all day. Critical link for North Shore especially to airport. Need moving walk at waterfront. • Frequent service should be direct – on main routes! • No need to increase in West Vancouver (density too low) • No transit priority (bus-only lanes) desired if this means taking away car lanes • Park and Ride – Phibbs Exchange
Facilitator: It was interestingly to hear of the trade-offs that were negotiated - the exercise is much more difficult when there is a limited budget.
9. NEXT STEPS – Jim Prokop, TransLink • Thank you all for being a planner for the night! • Phase 1 is complete, a number of visions have been completed tonight and in the third phase there will be further public consultation.
North Shore Area Transit Plan 8 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
We will continue to provide you with updates.
10. CLOSURE The North Shore Area Transit Plan, Stakeholder Visioning Workshop was declared closed at 9:00 p.m. All participants were thanked for their valuable contributions and time.
North Shore Area Transit Plan 9 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
January 27, 2011 Session
Meeting notes from a North Shore Area Transit Plan (NSATP), Stakeholder Visioning Workshop, held Thursday, January 27, 2011, at the Gleneagles Golf Course, West Vancouver BC
PRESENT: (From the attendance sheets)
Table 1 – Facilitator Jeff Deby, TransLink Park Royal West Vancouver School District #45 NSTAP Public Advisory Committee Member Norgate Community Vancouver Coastal Health Village of Lions Bay Representative
Table 2 – Facilitator Michelle Babiuk, TransLink West Vancouver School District 45 NSTAP Public Advisory Committee Member Western Residents Association of West Vancouver Lions Bay Community Representative Seymour Community Association
Table 3 – Facilitator Graeme Brown, TransLink NSTAP Public Advisory Committee Member North Vancouver School District #44 Norgate Community Parent Advisory Group – West Vancouver School District 45
ALSO PRESENT: Susanne Booth, TransLink Susan Campbell, Corporate Consulting, Recording Secretary Matt Craig, TransLink Kate Grossman, TransLink Kelly Malaniuk, TransLink Teresa O’Reilly, TransLink Jim Prokop, TransLink George Sali, TransLink Amelia Shaw, TransLink, Facilitator
The North Shore Area Transit Plan, Stakeholder Visioning Workshop, commenced at 6:00 p.m.
North Shore Area Transit Plan 11 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
Workshop Objectives: • To get input from a variety of stakeholders on what will become a long-standing vision for transit on the North Shore for eventual development into a long-term transit plan. • Provide an opportunity for groups to hear what others have to say and listen to their concerns and challenges. ______
1. INTRODUCTION AND WELCOME Amelia Shaw, TransLink and Facilitator for the workshop welcomed everyone and reviewed the agenda for the workshop.
2. NSATP BACKGROUNDER Jim Prokop, TransLink provided a power point presentation regarding the background to the NSATP.
3. GAME 1 INTRODUCTION – NO FUNDING LIMIT Teresa O’Reilly provided an introduction to Game 1.
4. GAME 1 PLAYED – WHAT DO YOU WANT AND WHERE? All participants played Game 1 (No funding limit). What do you want and where?
5. GAME 1 FINDINGS – FACILITATOR REPORT OUT AND NOTES FROM THE FLIP CHARTS
TABLE 1 – JEFF DEBY, FACILITATOR
• There were a lot of ideas presented to make new and different connections • Themes emerged: need for fast frequent service east/west , north/south and across the inlet • Rail from Horseshoe Bay to town center and rail from Lions Gate Bridge to SeaBus with extension to one of the rapid transit lines • Better use of water for transportation – possible ferry from Ambleside Park area to UBC • Dedicated bus lane on Highway 1 for rapid bus service • More park and ride facilities • Eastern edge from Deep Cove or Cates Park over to Port Moody (Cates Park preferred option) • Addition of more frequent bus service spread throughout
Notes from the Flip Chart:
• Issue/problem with rapid bus – people don’t always know it’s limited stop, so may not be able to get off where they want • Need to ensure adequate capacity for people with luggage etc for passengers connecting to Canada Line (airport) • Use existing rail line for east/west connections • Better use of water to connect North Shore with region • Better connection with existing services (Canada Line)
North Shore Area Transit Plan 12 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
• Rapid rail should not go through existing neighbourhoods • Park and Ride along corridors and municipal town centers • Increased service and span of service to British Properties • Dedicated bus lane along Highway 1 • Earlier start times for SeaBus and downtown routes • Increased or improved north and south routes
TABLE 2 – MICHELLE BABIUK, FACILITATOR
• First Priority: East/west connections all across the North Shore are important – Cap U, Phibbs Exchange, Park Royal and Ambleside • Relocate Phibbs Exchange to improve opportunity for community integration • Faster connections to downtown north/south was identified as a second priority • Parks and rides were put in all over • Majority of group, although not a consensus, felt a stronger connection to Lions Bay was important
Notes from the Flip Charts:
• Increased park and rides are needed and feeder buses • East/west connections are important – key priority is between Park Royal, Phibbs Exchange and Cap U and possibly to Ambleside • Secondary east/west connection from Deep Cove to Horseshoe Bay • Need faster connections between Lonsdale and downtown • Lions Bay connection is important (majority but no consensus) • K-12 student transportation specifically secondary using public transit important (during school times) • More frequent buses travelling routes • British Properties increase frequency • 15th in West Vancouver up to Crosscreek – Chartwell • Better bus service up Westport – connecting Caulfield Village and Marine Drive • Westmont area – increase routes to Caulfield Village • Lions Bay – Caulfield Village - Ambleside
TABLE 3 – GRAEME BROWN, FACILITATOR
• Primarily interested in fast connections from West Vancouver to Horseshoe Bay and commuter rail to Squamish • Most services okay in West Vancouver and Park and Rides were identified (Park Royal, Phibbs Exchange) • Transit on corridor – focused on developed areas such as Lonsdale • Felt need for increased transit capacity in off-peak periods and better coordination with SeaBus schedule including more frequency of service and later in evening • Phibbs Exchange to be moved to nearby town centre • Better connections to schools were noted as there was a feeling that this has eroded
North Shore Area Transit Plan 13 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
Notes from the Flip Charts:
• Increased demand for off-peak transit connections to downtown Vancouver • Insufficient auto capacity • Increased span of 15-minutes SeaBus service and better coordination with major events • Concentrated development and transit services e.g. Lonsdale • Move Phibbs Exchange to somewhere, District North Vancouver works yard? with more amenities for customers • Better connections to schools
6. GAME 2 – INTRODUCTION – WE HAVE A BUDGET Teresa O’Reilly provided an introduction to Game 2.
7. GAME 2 PLAYED – RESOURCES ARE LIMITED, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? All participants played Game 2. We have a budget. Resources are limited, what would you do?
8. GAME 2 FINDINGS – FACILITATOR REPORT OUT AND FLIP CHART NOTES
TABLE 1 – JEFF DEBY, FACILITATOR
• There were tough decisions to make and the group decided not to invest in the highest cost but rather to invest in coverage • The value of getting people to downtown over the Lions Gate Bridge was noted – increase frequency (frequent bus) and two lines joining through Park Royal to Horseshoe Bay will service Lions Bay and Bowen Island as well. Another line joining downtown having a transit priority continuing out to Lynn Valley. • Connection to Millennium Line to Park & Tilford and connection to Deep Cove • New route to Mont Royal • A couple of other local routes creating connectivity • Increase service along Lonsdale • Added Park and Ride to facilitate being able to transfer to SeaBus • Connect to airport and feeder services to Canada Line should have extra capacity for luggage
North Shore Area Transit Plan 14 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
Notes from the Flip Charts:
• Increased parking at Lonsdale Quay • Increased service frequency/capacity during events • Increased capacity (articulated buses) for downtown routes (passengers with luggage) • Earlier service to connect with other services (i.e. Canada Line) • Increased speed for east/west travel (realize new roads) • Maintain direct route to downtown Vancouver and increase frequency • For Bowen Island and Sunshine Coast ensure sufficient capacity/comfort is provided on ferry and transit connections • Frequent local bus between Horseshoe Bay and downtown Vancouver utilizing Highway 1 and bus priority lanes • Increase service to British Properties between Grouse Mountain and Lonsdale and local bus • Increase service between downtown Vancouver and Lonsdale and areas east of Lonsdale • Single connection along Mont Royal
TABLE 2 – MICHELLE BABIUK, FACILITATOR
• This plan will relocate Phibbs Exchange to the Super Store parking lot • Top priority was feeding dense connections in the center of the North Shore east/west and north/south. Most important were the connections between Ambleside and the new Phibbs Exchange. • Second priority was evening service west on Marine Drive. • Transit priority improvement on Queens and local routes to feed into frequent bus service. • Extra shuttle service to Horseshoe Bay and highway routes. • Neighborhoods on far east should be served. • In earlier plan instead of new SeaBus and got downgraded was the time it takes on either side of the SeaBus - that is the issue with SeaBus.
Notes from Flip Charts:
• Dense connections in the area bounded by new Phibbs Exchange and Cap/Marine by new Phibbs Exchange (beside Super Store) and Cap/Marine (east/west connections) and between Queens and Marine (north/south) i.e. center of North Shore • Most important connection is between Ambleside and relocated Phibbs (east/west) – should be FTN with transit priority • Integrate and relocate Phibbs Exchange with new lower Lynn Valley development • Later evening service along Marine Drive, especially between Ambleside and Horseshoe Bay (peak hour service) • New shuttle service between Horseshoe Bay and Caulfield (lower priority) • Transit priority important (bus lane on Marine and intersection priority on Queens) • Local circulator for Highlands and upper Lynn Valley (peak service only) (lower priority)
• Ambleside to Caulfield via 31st local service needed (no consensus) North Shore Area Transit Plan 15 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
• No consensus or need for improved service to east Seymour
TABLE 3 – GRAEME BROWN, FACILITATOR
• Focused on new services on dense corridors and east/west service on Marine Drive. • Lonsdale is the commercial center and core for community to have frequent service and transit service to SeaBus and new expanded SeaBus service captures north/south. • Relocating Phibbs Exchange to proposed new town center. • Need direct service up 15th Avenue. • Bringing demand in from west West Vancouver and provide a park and ride and if located further west will capture demand earlier but choose to have park and ride closer • Acknowledged that people will only use transit if frequent and wanted to avoid long wait lines to capture new transit users
Notes from the Flip Charts:
• 15-minute frequency to 10 p.m. = focuses north/north travel on SeaBus; and 30- minute frequency to 2:00 a.m. = and connects to SkyTrain • New location for Phibbs Exchange (amenities for customers!) • Cap U doesn’t need all-day service (not agreed) • People take transit if frequency is too low • Need direct service on 15th • Connecting dense areas • Faster to travel east/west on North Shore than in Vancouver. Also more pleasant • Transit market for west – West Vancouver is commuters • Park and Ride location: VKT reduction vs. cost of service • All-day frequent service serves seniors well
Participants were asked to complete their feedback forms and provide comment as to whether this exercise was helpful - any recommendations or suggestions would be beneficial.
Next Steps – Jim Prokop
• Thank you all for being a planner for the night! • This is your vision and this is information we can take and use to synthesize and do some network planning and costing of alternatives.
Facilitator:
North Shore Area Transit Plan 16 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3
• Phase 1 is complete, a number of visions have been completed tonight and in the third phase there will be further public consultation. • We will be going out to the North Shore Mayors and Councils soon and they will all have the opportunity to see how you have designed transit for the North Shore. • In April or May we anticipate holding public consultation sessions. • We will continue to provide you with updates.
DISCUSSION:
Q: What determined the financial limitations we were given in the game? A: TransLink: We looked at it as more of an average of what would be provided for and the various levels of service over a 30-year time period and to allow for enough resources to get people to discuss the trade-offs and how they would focus priorities and develop concepts of service.
Q: It seemed real limiting for rapid transit and if you put turnstiles in we would be okay. A: TransLink: For your information, the fare gates will be installed by 2013.
9. CLOSURE The North Shore Area Transit Plan, Stakeholder Visioning Workshop was declared closed at 9:00 p.m. All participants were thanked for their valuable contributions and time.
North Shore Area Transit Plan 17 | Page Phase 2: 2040 Transit Network Vision | Appendix 3