>> Thank you so much for joining us today. We're just thrilled to have both and Denene Millner here to discuss their new book that they are publishing and writing together. Both of them have written some very exciting books that we have in our libraries and in -- on our catalog. My name is Ariana Chauca Calita. [assumed spelling] I am the author of "The Young Person's guide to the Ballet." And as I mentioned, I work at the Tremont Library. So we're very excited. I'm under the impression you're going to be reading "Bunheads." Is that right?

>> Yes, that's correct. I'm very excited to be sharing this one.

>> Wonderful. Well, I'll let you get to it, if you want to maybe read a little bit for us before we start with our questions. That's wonderful. Thank you.

>> Great. So "Bunheads" is a really, really special book for me. It's something that I planned on writing, I think, almost five years ago. And I wanted to give young people, as well as the ballet world, a real insight into what it is to grow up loving dance, grow up in an inviting environment. Which, that's what I experienced growing up as a 13-year-old coming into ballet, that it's not what you might often see depicted in Shaman India, which can be very negative. It doesn't always show the camaraderie and the friendships that are built, and just the beauty of the stories and the storytelling, and how rich that is for a young person to experience. So I'm just going to read a little bit, just to give our audience an idea of what "Bunheads" is about. "When Miss Bradley announced they'd be performing the ballet 'Coppelia' for the recital, everyone in Misty's class shouted excitedly, and gathered around to hear their teacher tell the story of Coppelia. Misty didn't know what Coppelia meant. And she was too shy to ask, especially since it was her first ballet class ever. So Misty took a spot on the floor, and before she knew it, she was completely entranced, as Miss Bradley told the tale." These are some of my favorite illustrations by Setor Fiadzigbey. Here's the story of Coppelia. "Once upon a time, an odd, old toymaker made a beautiful, life-sized doll named Coppelia to cure his lonely heart. The doll was so pretty, and looked so real, that a boy named Franz fell in love with Coppelia at first sight, even though he already told Swanilda he would marry her. Swanilda was furious when she caught Franz blowing kisses to Coppelia. But Franz ignored her anger. Later Franz sneaked into the toymaker's house to see Coppelia. But the toymaker caught him. When the toymaker realized that Franz was in love with his doll, he had an awful idea. Maybe he could use Franz's love to turn Coppelia into a real girl." I love just the way that Setor first of all made the little girl look so much like me, and that you see a brown girl with curly hair depicted in ballet. "Lucky for Franz, Swanilda had also sneaked into the toymaker's house out of curiosity. And she was still hidden inside. She overheard the toymaker's evil plan and decided to dress like Coppelia to confuse the old man. Once the toymaker believed that his doll had finally come to life, Franz escaped. After that, Franz realized what a fool he'd been. And he married Swanilda. The two lived happily ever after." If only life was actually that simple. "Misty loved how Swanilda never lost sight of her goal, or her real love. She knew she wanted to be Swanilda. 'In just a few days, we will decide what roles you will dance in the performance,' Miss Bradley said. Now, let's practice. First there was a developpe tendu front, with one leg lifted forward, the pointed foot gently touching the floor." You can see the tendu here, the young girls gathered around Miss Bradley. "Next was the rond de jambe to tendu front, with the leg stretched straight out to the front, making big circles round and round in the air with the toes. Then it got a bit harder with the pot au beret, moving from side to side, as one foot crossed over the other." I think this is my favorite picture, the rond de jambe, where you see the action of the leg making a circle. "They had such fun with the soutenu, as the young dancers twirled and spun in unison. Finally the lesson ended with simultaneous pot au berets, again and again. Misty picked up the step easily, following only a half second behind the rest of the class. 'Have you ever danced "Coppelia"?' Miss Bradley asked. Misty shook her head nervously, replying, 'I've never taken ballet before.' 'Well, you're very good,' Miss Bradley said. 'Come,' she called to Misty and Cat, a younger girl who was full of energy, 'you two, up front.' Misty could feel her heart pounding. Miss Bradley asked Cat to show Misty the dance of Coppelia. Coppelia sits in a chair on the balcony of the toymaker's house throughout the first act of the ballet. Cat held her arms in first position, then lifted her arms and turned her head like a robot, up and down, and side to side. She performed the moves beautifully. When it was Misty's turn, she imitated Cat from memory. 'You are both very gifted,' Miss Bradley said." And there's Cat and Misty. So that's just a short bit that I wanted to share. Again, just the way that I think the ballet terminology is shown in this book, you know, it's not kind of watering down what ballet is, but really educating children and teaching them the French terms, and then seeing the movement, and explaining a little bit about what those movements mean.

>> I love the accessibility of it, right, that it's still -- it doesn't dumb things down. But it still invites them to see what each thing is, and trying it on their own. The book is so fun, because it shows inside how you lit up when you first started dancing, that you were in that class, and without necessarily having role models, just coming to it, and feeling it. Although it does sound like the class was -- it was the right fit, right? So out of curiosity, I was wondering, what were some of your role models growing up? I mean, you're a wonderful role models for so many of our children now. But who were some of your role models? I know you're friends with the famous ballerina Raven Wilkinson. So I don't know if that was someone you had looked up before, or how you got to know her. I thought that would be an interesting story for the kids to maybe hear.

>> Yeah, you know, what's so interesting is that, growing up as a brown girl, as a biracial girl, as a black girl in Southern California, first of all, I had no introduction to what ballet and dance really were. I was discovered on a basketball court at my Boys and Girls Club. That's where I took my first ballet class when I was 13 years old. And it was Miss Bradley, Cynthia Bradley, who discovered me and brought me into her school. I, at that point, had no idea that there weren't -- There was no real history that had been documented of black and brown dancers in classical dance. So my teacher did a pretty good job of shielding me from, you know, the racism that existed in the ballet world and in dance culture at that elite level. And so I didn't really have any black dancers that I was aware of. I'd say that my mom was someone that was a role model for me, being a black woman, raising six children on her own. Miss Bradley -- Cynthia became a role model for me, someone who was so invested in her community. She was going to different public schools and community centers, and looking for more diverse students to be able to give them scholarships and bring them into her school. And I wouldn't be where I am. I wouldn't have the career I have, had she not gone to that Boys and Girls Club and literally plucked me from the bleachers and forced me to take a ballet class. And she knew the life that it could give me, whether or not I went on to become a professional. And one that -- I'm sure the kids listening would have no idea what I'm talking about, but before Raven -- because I didn't learn about who Raven was until I was in my late 20's was Mariah Carey. And I know that sounds so silly. But you know, with something that I don't think I realized until I was much older. But seeing someone who looked like me who was succeeding -- someone who was biracial who had this unbelievable gift, and was receiving, you know, the acknowledgement and the accolades that she deserved. And I think that there was just something that I connected to. And it was her music that I started creating movement to before I even discovered ballet. So I really, really truly and strongly connect with and understand, you know, how powerful it is to have representation.

>> I really appreciated that. And I know that "Coppelia," that was your first dance. But now everybody is talking about how well-known you are for dancing the "Firebird." And I remember reading that book and burning the chicken, because I was so entranced at how your story was, and all the pictures. And I just want to know, how did you feel when you read -- when you danced the "Firebird"? What was your feelings?

>> Oh, there's so much around ." And something that I did -- You know, the history of ballet is so interesting to me. And it's something that I feel like the black community often is told or feels they don't have a place in, because it's not their culture, and we're not telling our stories. But there was something about the way that -- the traditional history of ballet that I connected with. I feel like a lot of the times as black Americans, you know, it's like, where do we belong? What is our history? Where do we fit in? And there was something about ballet that I felt like, I'm a part of this lineage of amazing history. But you know, it started in Italy, and then in France, and then in Russia. And there was something about not -- As much as I love the history, it's like, I wanted to find a way to interpret these stories and make them my own. And the firebird story is an old Russian folktale that's -- It's a bit of a bizarre story if you think about it. But the firebird is the heroine. And she does -- She comes, and she kind of rescues the prince and a princess that are in despair, and that are under the spell of an evil sorcerer. With the "Firebird" book, I wanted to take the power that I felt performing that role, but change the story line. So that -- the "Firebird" book that I did with Christopher Myers is not the actual fairytale story that you see in the ballets or in the Russian folktale. It's actually -- The backbone in history of that story is the relationship between me and my mentor Raven Wilkinson, who is the first ballerina -- black ballerina to dance in a major company -- in an all white company in the 1950's, who dealt with extreme racism. So you know, taking on that role of Firebird, there was so much more behind it for me to unpack. I wasn't just another person fitting into this Russian fairytale -- another Russian ballerina doing the same steps. But I found power from my community. The first time I performed that ballet was at the House. I was not yet a principal dancer. I was given this opportunity to do a leading role as a soloist. And it was the first time I had ever seen the Metropolitan Opera House more than half full of black and brown people. And it was so overwhelmingly emotional that -- It was like, "Okay they're all here because of what I represent for this long history of black and brown ballerinas that were not given an opportunity to be on the stage, or not given an opportunity to dance in a company like American Ballet Theater." So I just felt like I was carrying -- I was flying, carrying my ancestors, and the future black and brown dancers with me on that stage. And so that role has such a deeper meaning for me. >> Thank you.

>> Yeah, I loved how you made it your own.

>> When I picked it up, I thought it was going to be, "Oh, here we go. There's a new -- it's a new "Firebird" by Misty Copeland. And instead of the traditional, you know, like -- was it Pushkin, right? I think Pushkin did the original one. So which -- we have a beautiful version of that too. But it was so refreshing. I was like, Wow. It was so unlike any other book that I have in the children's and the sort of art section. And I love that. And I think it is also fun, because it shows the doors opening, you know, that everything is -- Everything can happen. And I think it really, hopefully you've started a big change here. You know, I know there were a handful before you, but you really -- you know, have done a beautiful job. So I would like to compliment you, because I think all of your success really is based on all of your hard work. And knowing what goes into the training behind ballet, and the discipline, and teamwork, all of that -- So I was wondering if you have any tricks you'd like to share with us that maybe keep you focused, right? Or if you have any success tips for you -- We've got beginning ballerinas -- on how they could deal with rejection, or how they could get to the next level.

>> Well, the first thing I always say to young people is -- I mean -- I think it's something that you figure out pretty quickly, whether or not this is something you want to do, because it is hard. As fun as it is, it's probably three times as hard. And there is something that I found in ballet -- you know, something that I didn't have in my life. I didn't have a lot of structure. And I think -- you know, or groundedness. And I was looking -- craving that without even realizing I was. I think that it's important to recognize -- and it's hard as a young person -- but all of the incredible tools that dance can give you to be the best you can be in your life. I have so many friends that have gone on to be doctors and lawyers, like, second careers after having such a full life and career as a dancer. But you know, I find motivation day in and day out, you know, when I'm injured or my body is hurting, I mean we dance, you know, up to eight hours a day, five to six days a week. So it's really grueling. But you know, it's so worth it when you step out onto the stage, and the work that you're putting in to make the movements second nature, so that when you go on stage you can just be completely like, abandoned to the movement and to telling the story. That to me, is what makes it so worth all of the hard work. And you know, it's -- I think people often say that like, that you can forget pain. You can forget, you know, when something beautiful, and it's like having a baby. You go back and have another one and forget that pain that you go through. And I think that there's something about you know, art and/or sport that, you know, you get. It's so intoxicating. It's something that really takes over, you know, and it -- you feel almost like you're not human. You're superhuman. And even just feeling the love and the joy that that we bring to the audience makes it all so, so, worth it.

>> Great, thank you so much. And now we want to introduce journalist, author, and publisher, Denene Millner, to give us a presentation, and then we're going to ask you some questions about your career as well. >> Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for having me. I have to say just I'm beaming ear to ear, listening to Misty talk about not only her books, but her work and just you know, understand that she's a superhero, just because she embodies not just the beauty of this art form, the beauty of representation which is something that's super important to me. I am the publisher of Denene Millner books. It's an imprint with Simon and Schuster. And what that means is, I go out and I find beautiful stories. I focus on stories about black -- mostly black Americans and black families, black children in particular, and chronicle and find stories that chronicle the everyday experience of these children and families. To me -- I have two daughters. Let me start there. I have two daughters, and when I was pregnant with the first one, it was deeply important to me to be able to surround her with the beauty of us. And when I say the beauty of us, I mean surrounding her with things that would let her know her place. Because I grew up at a time where it was hard to be me. I felt like it was hard to be me. I felt like it was hard to accept my skin tone. It was hard to accept the texture of my hair. It was hard to accept where I come from. It was hard to accept or to figure out where I was going, looking the way that I looked, thinking the way that I was thinking, being raised the way that I was raised, in a world that consistently felt like it was telling me that it wasn't right, that it was wrong, in fact, or that I was just invisible. I was an avid reader when I was a kid. There was just never a time that you would see me without a book in my hand. But those books didn't represent me. You know, they didn't -- they spoke to me in many ways, but there were a lot of other ways that they didn't talk to me, because they didn't have children who looked like me, or experienced the same things that I experienced. And it just would have been nice to be able to see that. And so I made it my mission when I had my daughters, to be able to give to them what I felt like I had gone without as a child. And so I went looking for their library, because I obviously the first thing that I wanted to do was to build their library in their room. And I just couldn't find a whole lot of books featuring African-American characters, that told stories that were beyond sort of like, the how black people overcame. So there would be stories about slavery, or overcoming slavery. There would be stories about the civil rights movement. There were stories about lots of black firsts. But every-day stories showing my daughters the things that would appeal to them, that are in our family -- good food, great music, dance, you know, Alvin Ailey, you know, those kinds of things just we couldn't -- I couldn't find them as a mother. I could not find them in the stores. Now it's a little bit easier, because you have your phone in your hand. You see a book, and you can just order it online, and it shows up to your house. But this was in the '90s. And if a bookstore or a library wasn't focused specifically on grabbing the books that existed, and putting them on the shelves, and then presenting them to children and showing them, "Hey, if you liked Judy Moody, you might like this book. Or if you like Judy Blume, you might like this book." If there wasn't someone handing it -- physically handing it to them, or a bookstore that actually bothered to put it on the bookshelves for sale, it was pretty hard to find them. And so I always wanted to write children's books, and couldn't find anybody who wanted to publish the books that I had in mind. And so I just decided to start my own imprint, so that I could not only do my own books, but to open the door for other African-American writers and illustrators who were having a hard time getting through the doors of the publishing industry. And so my first book that I -- or the first time I published was in 2016. The first books came out in 2017, and right off the bat, I published the book, "Crown: An Ode to the Fresh Cut," which was a book that got pitched to a bunch of other editors in the industry, and passed on. And as soon as I read it, I was like, "This is gorgeous." It's a book about a little black boy who goes to the barbershop and gets his haircut, and how great he feels because the men in the barbershop are telling him that he's a prince, that he's worthy, that he's smart, that he's loved, that he's important, and that he matters, right? And all of the people who are surrounding them, or that are surrounding him, matter too. And that book just took off and became a huge, huge hit. Ended up winning pretty much every award there was to win in American children's books for 2018, which is when it was eligible for the awards. And then I switched the imprint over to Simon and Schuster in 2019, and our first books came out in 2020. And the very first book that I published under Simon and Schuster was, "Me and Mama," by Cozbi A. Cabrera, which also was a book that was shown to several publishers who passed on it. And to me, it was a beautiful book about a little black girl who spends a great day with her mom. And her mom and she go on a walk in the rain, and they'd point out things that are similar and different, and things that are new and interesting. And then she goes to sleep at night after a big hug and a kiss from her mom, and dreams about her wonderful, ordinary, extraordinary day with her mom. Those are the kinds of stories that appeal to me, because they speak directly to the every-day experiences of black children in a way that, you know, until recently, weren't necessarily focused on, when it came to books featuring characters that look like me. And so I'm thrilled to be able to use my talents, my resources, and my platform, and the wonderful opportunity that Simon and Schuster has afforded me to be able to bring those kinds of books to kids everywhere.

>> Hello Miss Millner. In addition to the many hats that you're wearing, being a mom, an author, and a publisher, you're also a journalist. And I want to know how important is it to you to add truth to whatever story you and your writers tell?

>> Oh, goodness. So I became a journalist. I knew I wanted to be a journalist when I was in the ninth grade. Started out, wanted to be an architect, and then I got my physics grades and that became a dream that got pushed to the wayside. My dad was like, "Um, I don't know if this architect -- you need to know how to make the building stand up. Physics is kind of a thing you need to know." So he asked me in that moment, "What do you want to do with the rest of your life?" And it just so happened that "New Edition" was being interviewed by Sue Simmons, on "Live at Five." I'm from . "Hey." And I thought Sue Simmons was a superhero, because she got to interview all the people that I loved, including Ralph Tresvant from "New Edition,"," whom I just knew I was going to meet, and marry, and fall in love with, and all those beautiful things. And so I said, "I want to be Sue Simmons." And he says, "Well, tomorrow, go back to school and figure out what you need to do to become Sue Simmons." And you know, that was my journey toward becoming a journalist. And when I started looking seriously at becoming a journalist, one of the things that I wanted to do -- and I'm sorry, this is a long about way of answering your question. But one of the things that I wanted to do as a journalist was to shine a light on the beauty of us, right? When I was younger, it felt like the only time that black people ended up in a newspaper, or a magazine, or on a television show, was if we were doing something wrong and got caught. Or if we were bouncing a basketball, or throwing one, or anything that had to do with being a sports figure -- not necessarily even a celebrity, but a sports figure. And so I wanted to be able to use my abilities as a journalist to sort of dig into who we really are and to fill those pages and those spaces. First I worked for the "Associated Press," and then the "New York Daily News" as a political reporter and then an entertainment reporter. I just wanted to use my abilities to go in and say, "I know that you think, you know, this particular show on Broadway is a big, big deal, but do you see what August Wilson is doing over here, and what that means to, you know, audiences that didn't necessarily glom on to what's over here, but can see themselves over here? Let me write about that. I know that you guys are into, you know, sort of the old school, or pop artist; that's great. But do you know what hip-hop means to not just New York, but like, how it's growing globally, and what that means to us? I know that you want to talk about, you know, how beautiful is, but can we focus on ?, maybe? Can we talk about how beautiful Harlem is with black people in it? Like, you know, that means something to us." And so telling the truth really was about shining a light on, you know, things that people ignored, that newspaper editors, magazine editors pushed to the side. I was there, oftentimes the only black person in the newsroom or in the magazine, except for my one three-year stint at "Honey Magazine," to say, "Hey, please do not forget us." Like, when we're talking -- when I was at "Parenting Magazine," and, you know, every month the magazine would come out, and there wouldn't be any black children in it. "How are we talking about parenting, and we're not talking to black mothers? We're parents, too, And we care about raising our children with intention." And I was there, thank goodness, in those newsrooms, to say that this is our truth, and it deserves to be on the page.

>> Thanks for the -- that answer. I am also a New Yorker, so I remember Miss Simmons as well.

>> Yeah.

>> If I wanted to be an author, or a publisher, or both, what advice would you give?

>> Oh goodness. So first and foremost, you have to read. Whether you're an author, or a publisher, an editor, whatever you choose to be in this industry, where the written word is the thing that you're doing, you have to read. You have to know what people are doing. You have to know what's going on in the industry. You have to know what's been done. You have to know what's been done, so that you can improve upon it, or reach it from a different angle. If you want to write, you want to know different styles. Gain recognizes gain. So you want to be able to see what others are doing, and let that inspire you. Let that push you. There's not a day that goes by that I don't read something. There's just something always on my coffee table, or on my counters, or on my kitchen table, or next to my bed stand, that I'm just reading. And I still read children's books avidly. I think that they're beautiful, and they're a personal favorite of mine. And I collect them -- specifically, children's books that feature African-American characters. But I also just look at them because you know, it's my job to...it's my job to know what's going on in the industry. And then write. For me, I just -- I cannot imagine -- there's not a day that goes by that I don't write. So I keep, you know, journals all around the house. And if something just catches my attention, or somebody says something interesting that makes me think, or even if I'm watching tv and somebody says something that I think is interesting, I jot it down. And then you know like, I may just sort of pontificate on that. In the morning, I'll sit and just free-hand write four pages, just because getting my thoughts out onto paper, just -- it's a great way to start the day. A friend of mine told me that if you put your pen down on a piece of a paper, and you write four pages, by the time you get to the fourth page, the truth comes out. There's just nothing that you can do to stop it from coming out. And she's absolutely right. By the fourth page I'm like, "So that's what was on my mind. Okay, well, let's think about that," right? So really, it's really in both instances, it's to do what it is that you're asking other people to do for you. It is to read, and write, and fall in love with the written word.

>> Awesome, thank you. So we have a couple of questions for you both. So -- and we'll start with Chelsie.

>> Could you both tell us a little bit about what inspired you to work in publishing or writing, specifically for youths as opposed to adults? What made you want to write for the younger people?

>> Here's my go. For me, I feel like growing up, I was extremely introverted, and I didn't -- I literally didn't have a voice. My nickname was Mouse growing up, because I was like, silent. I remember going back after I moved to New York when I was 17, and then going back home after maybe a year or two. And seeing high school friends, and people realizing I wasn't mute, which was like, really shocking for me to just think about. You know, what was going on in my life, and how was I dealing with those things? And one of the more consistent things, and this was even before dance, was journaling, like you were saying, Denene. And the importance of it for my sanity, because I wasn't expressing myself in any other way. I had no other outlet, and I was in an environment where my mother was so preoccupied and so busy just trying to get food on the table. And I was a middle child, one of six kids, and could just easily get away with not being pushed to, you know, to express myself. So writing as a young person was so vital. And the first book that I wrote was my memoir. And I remember, I had just stacks and stacks of journals that I had saved, that I had been writing since I was really young, and to be able to go through all of that and learn so much about myself, and what I was going through, and how much more developed I was than I remember. But just how important it is for young people to know the power they have by reading, and by writing, and expressing themselves in every way possible. And I think that after writing my memoir, then the second book that I did was, "Firebird." But I think I really understood and realized the importance of what it was to journal for me. I think it was like, a saving grace before dance came into my life.

>> For me, the reason why -- well, you know I write books across all genres. So I write books for children, teens, tweens, adults, fiction, nonfiction. I've done all of that. But the reason why I chose to publish children's books, specifically black children's books, was because again, I just want to show black children themselves, and I want to invite everybody into the world of black children and families. I got to show you these, because I'm so proud of these books that are coming out in September. And this is a perfect example of showing us ourselves. This one is "When Langston Dances." And it's about a little black boy who wants to dance. And he wants to dance specifically in ballet, because his mom took him to see Alvin Ailey, which is something that I do with my daughters every year. And -- when they come to Atlanta -- And he is encouraged by his mom to go ahead and be a dancer, just because it's something that he wanted to do, not because of any other reason than that he loves it. Can you see that? So it's -- it comes out in September. But what's beautiful about the book is that it not only shows this little boy being encouraged by his mother, and his community, and his dance teacher, and the little girls who are in his ballet class, but helping children understand that, whatever it is that you are -- you put your mind to do, if you're encouraged to do it, you can do it. And there's nothing to tell you that you can't. And this book isn't about -- The first thing that comes to mind when people think about little black boys dancing is, "He must be something other than a little black boy who, you know, who -- he may be what -- you know where I'm going with this. This is about a little black boy who just wants to dance. That's it. That's all there is to it. There's nothing more about it. There's one page in it where a little boy says, "Well little boys don't dance." And he says, "Well yeah we do." And then he goes on and trots off to his dance class and dances, you know. This one is called "Keep Your Head Up." And it's about a little boy who has just the worst day. He gets in trouble with his teacher. He forgets his gym clothes, so he can't play kickball like he wants to. And he ultimately has this terrible meltdown and gets sent to the principal's office. But instead of being disciplined, he is held with regard. He's told that it's okay to have bad days. We all have them. And this is something that we're learning because of this big gigantic discussion we're having now when it comes to Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka about, "Hey, we have bad days." And we can overcome them if we take the time to really hone in on what the issue is, and respect that you need the time to address it. And so that's what "Keep Your Head Up" is about. And it's -- And part of it was about discipline of black boys and black girls, and sort of the differences between the way that they're disciplined versus their white counterparts, and understanding that little black boys are children who have bad days. And it's okay if they have a bad day. You shouldn't be punishing them for being kids. And so you know, like, there's this underlying message in these books always, that appeal not just to showing black children who they are, but also talking directly to caretakers, and using this as a resource for them to understand, "Hey, maybe there's a different way that I can approach this real human being in front of me, because I had this book in front of me that showed me that he had a bad day. Yeah, he messed up in class, and he went to the principal's office. And you know what? Everybody lived without punishing him, without kicking him out of school, without calling on a school resource officer AKA a police officer to come and take the kindergartner away for being a kindergartner." And so these are the reasons why I focused on children's books. Because, I just love babies. I love them. I love kids. And I love speaking directly to them.

>> Okay, next question. When you were a child, what was your favorite book, or what book would you have recommended?

>> First, I cannot wait to read those two books. Oh my gosh, like, the importance of empowering little black and brown boys, first of all, is so incredible. And it's something that I'm hoping to add on with more series of "Bunheads," to introduce, and a lot of these are -- people are real characters in my life. But two mentees of mine, Nazir and Shakir, two Muslim boys from Brooklyn -- who fell in love with ballet as like six-year-olds, and were sneaking, and taking ballet behind their parents' backs. And it's just so important, the power of that. You know, I remember coming home to my husband and saying, "Can you help me and talk to them." You know, because now they're in their twenties and they both dance professionally. One's in Europe and one's in Houston as a soloist. It's incredible. But just the power of having support, and for me, being in my position to go to the white staff at ABT and say, "That is not how you should be handling, you know, situations that every teen-aged boy is going through in this school." So I'm so, so excited for this book. -- for those books. With that being said, I feel like, as a young person, I was looking for the most outrageous escape. And I remember "Where the Wild Things Are" being a book that, you know -- I again, didn't have a lot of outlets to express myself. And I think there was so much creativity inside of me, and so much imagination. Which is, I think, why I caught on to ballet so quickly. And I could truly -- I mean, I could be in a ballet studio where there is nothing but a bar -- a ballet bar, mirrors, a piano, and your body, and yet create this fantastical world around me. When you're learning a ballet, there's nothing there. There's no sets. You don't experience any of that until you actually get on the stage. So you really have to be able to envision. That's why I think it's so important to get children in -- into dance early, so they can really utilize what I think is so natural for children, is being able to create and have these things that are not kind of tarnished by the world yet. And so yeah, "Where the Wild Things Are" was one that I really, I think, held on to, because there wasn't a lot of that freedom and freedom of expression and creativity around my household. It was literally survival. So --

>> Okay, so I'm going to make sure I get those books to you, Misty, including two for your mentees, so that they can have them and know that they are being thought about, and inspiring so many other little boys to pursue that passion. So I will make sure I get those to you. My favorite book when I was younger was "The Little Princess." And "The Little princess" was probably the book, when I was a kid, that was closest to where I could kind of see myself, even though it was about a little white girl and her father who went off to war. And they thought that he had passed away. And she went from being a really rich girl to being the -- basically the kid who was the worker bee around the house, kind of shoveled off to the attic, you know, pummeled by her teachers and the head mistress, and treated with disregard because she wasn't rich any more. And that person thought that because she wasn't rich, that she didn't have any worth. And then to have the neighbor, who was also in a working capacity, see her crying in the attic, and come and sort of comfort her, and tell her that she is worthy of being a princess, and leaving food for her when she's hungry, and leaving warm blankets and robes for her, and slippers when she's cold, because she's being disregarded by the people around her. That made me -- Now that wasn't the way that I was, you know, born or raised. I wasn't poor. My parents weren't rich. But you know, I managed to have everything I needed, and even some of the things that I wanted, because my parents just really worked hard and were fortunate enough to be able to create this life for us, right? But when you think about black people sort of being disregarded because of whatever kind of stereotype someone has about who we are, and you know, kind of being alone and feeling alone in the world as if you're not loved, and you're not cared for, and you are not regarded, you're not held in any kind of way. And then every once in a while, a superhero will come along and tell you, you are worthy. That just reminded me a lot of the way that I was raised, and the things that I was thinking about in my mind, that I wasn't worthy of until someone came along and said, "Oh, absolutely, you are." And so I read that book over and over and over and over again. It was like my little best friend. My mom -- didn't have a whole lot of money for books -- bought that one for me. I remember that. And I read it over and over again. >> Awesome. Thank you both. We wanted to thank you both so much for joining us Misty Copeland, Miss Millner. And you can find Misty Copeland's "Firebird" and "Life in Motion" and Denene Millner's "Sparkle" and "My Brown Baby: on the joys and challenges of raising African American children," and other works on the NYPL catalog. And also thank you for joining us in NYPL's Summer Celebration. We really appreciate it.

>> Thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful.

>> Yes, thank you so much for having me as well.