Three-Cylinder Locomotives, Particularly with the Question of the Third Valve-Gear
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476 JOURSAL 01’ THE ISBT. OF LOCO. EXGIXEERR THREE-CYLINDERLOCOMOTIVES, Pnjer lY171i before the Iiislitirtioti, Londoti, b~ 11. HOLCROFT, McviiJer, Xozwnber 2114 19 18. Contitruaircc oj‘ Discussion at Leecis Centre, Ilecelnhcr 17/li9 1918, Mi.. T. H. Hrocklebnnk /wrsiiiiti<. PAPER No. 65A. The Chairmail (Mr. T. H. Brtxklebank) : The Hon, Secretary has received several letters of regret tor absence from some of the members. and I will asl: him to read them to you. The Hon. Secretary : As time is rather short, gentlemen, and we want a good discussion on hlr. Holcroft’s Paper, I just propose to tell you Mr. Gresley not only wrote, but alm telephoned me, I was to givc his personal regrets to Mr. Holcroft that he could not be present. Mr. Stamer also wrote again this morning, and I have received letters of rt gret from Mr. Goodall and several other members ; Coloncl Kitson-Clark was sorry hc could not attend, as he had to be in London. The Chairman: One of the great points of a three- cylinder engine is its good starting effort, or “ torque,” as our good French .4llies havc it. One might add that it can ‘. torque ” for itself, but of course we shall all prefer to hear Mr. Holcroft talk for it. I will therefore now ask Mr. Holcroft to present to us his Paper on the threecylinder locomotive, and so makc ‘‘ a good start.” Mr. Holcroft : Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen. Ikfore reading the Paper I should like to be permitted to make a personal explanation. I havc not been actually connected with locomotive work for some years, and for this reason cannot attempt to give you any details of existing. three- cylinder engines and their work, but hope to interest you ii the subject from an entirely novel point of view. A few years ago I made some investigations on three- cylinder locomotives, more especially as to the means of working three valves by means of tn.0 valvc-gears, but hitherto nothing has been published on the subject. The- Downloaded from jil.sagepub.com at CAMBRIDGE UNIV LIBRARY on June 5, 2016 Tl€REI<-CYI,IST)l<R LOCOMOTIVES-HOLOROFT. 477 rccent appearance of Mr. Gresley’s engine has fixed attentioti on the matter, and great interest has been created, so that the moment was opportune to present the theoretical side for discussion. I received an invitation from the Council in London to give a Paper on the subject, and this I will now proceed to rend to you. klr. Holcroft then read his Paper, which is published in Journal So. 35? Vol. \TllI., of the J’rocecdings. DISCUSSION. The Chairman : IVc have heard Mr. Holcroft’s excellent Paper with great interest, I am sure, and I have much pleasure in congratulating him on it and also on the manner in which he has prcsmted it. Mr. Warren has spcxially come from Darlington to help in the discussion, and has to leave soon by train, so I will ask him to make any remarks he wish-’%s to now. Mr. J. G. H. Warren: Hefore I m;\k<, n fen criticisms I sh6uld like to call attention to a Papcr published in 1913. It was read by Mr. J. Snowden I3elI bef’ore the American Master Mechan‘ics, and deals with the whole subject of three-cylinder locomotives, particularly with the question of the third valve-gear. A description is also given of a valve- gear proposed by Mr. H. S. Vincent, of the American Locomotive Company, who had apparently been working independently at the problem to which Mr. I-Iolcroft has given so much attention. I very much regret that in the time at my disposal it has been impossiblc to give to Mr. Holcroft’s estraordinarily interesting Paper the study which it deserves, but I havc noticed one or two points which seem to call for partic-ular comment. My criticisms or expressions of opinicn must bc taken as expressing only my own personal views. With Mr. Holcroft’s genera1 deductions and plea for an extended use of the thrce-cslinder locomotive I am in com- plete agreement. Rlr. Holcroft’s Paper refers at some length to the latest development of three-cylinder design in this country as sho\vn by thc, ncu‘ 2-8-0 type locomotive of the Great Northern Kailway, and it would be interesting to hear from him whether he considers that the lines on which this pzirticular locomotive has been developed are sound. Downloaded from jil.sagepub.com at CAMBRIDGE UNIV LIBRARY on June 5, 2016 478 JOVH?iAL OF THE ISST. OF LOCO. ESGINEERS. .4 glance at the engine itself sho\vs that the arrangement of the outside cylinders is unusual, 2nd I cannot discover from the published drawings any c-onvincing reason for the adoption of a cylinder arrangemciit tending to produce disturbancx in running, and, I think, loss of efkiciency due to increased friction, and large increases in driving-wheel pressure at the rail. It appears to me, in fact, that some of the advantages which might have been obtained by the use of three cylinders have been lost. On :I first study of the published drawings of the cylinder and valve motion arrangement of this engine it appeared to nie that the placing of the three cylinders in line and on the same incline might ha\.e been necessary in order .to obtain the arrangement for dri\-ing the inside valve by connections from the outside gears. Iht Mr. Holcroft, who has evidently given much thought to this question, has made it clear to us to-night that it would be possible to drive the inside valve from the outside gears rven were the outside cylinders arranged horizontally, as shown by Fig. 13, that in fact with such an arrangement of outside cylinders the valve-gears as a whole would have been simpler than as actually adopted on the Great Northern engine and illustrated by Fig. I. I suggest that undue emphasis has been given to the supposed disadvantages of a third independent valve-gear. It would appear from examination of Fig. XI that the addi- tional parts introduced between points A and B the valve radius rod pins for the outside valves are nearly as many as would be required for an additional independent gear. ,. 1he arrangement adopted also necessitates the use of rocking shafts, which are referred to by Mr. Holcroft as complica tions. Mr. Holcroft’s Paper as a wholc is of such interest that it is likely to lead to considcrahle discussion, and I therefore do not feel justified in touching upon othcr points of interest, but would add that in connection \vith thc particular points to which I rcfer 1 had prepared, some time ago, diagrams to show the relative amounts of certain vertical disturbing pressures at slow speeds and late cut-offs in locomotives ot the 2-84 type and of the same cylinder capacity, but baving- (a) Two inside cylinders of large diameter inclined at I in 8 and with drive on to the second axle. (h) Two outside cylinders of the same diameter placed horizontally with drive 011 to the third axle. Downloaded from jil.sagepub.com at CAMBRIDGE UNIV LIBRARY on June 5, 2016 THREE-CYI,ISDI<R COCOMOTIVES-IIOLCROFT . 479 {c) Three cylinders of total piston area approximately equivalent to zbove, all inclined :it 1 in 8 and with drive OII to the second axle, :IS in the case of the Great Northern engine. (d) Three cylinders as above, the inside one inclined at I in 8 with drive on to the second axle, the two outside horizontal with drive on to the third axle. It is evident that as the result of the incline and drive from the outside cylinders the detrimental tendencies due to upward pressures at cylinder head and slidebar will be greatest in the case of (c). In view of the necessity of obtaining from locomotives of given weight a maximum of efficiency, these particular points appear worthy of fuller consideration. Before I sit down 1 should likc, to save time, to antici- pate some possible objections to my criticisms. I have personally discussed these points with other locomotive engineers and have so far only come across two in favour of the arrangement adopted in the Great Northern engine, and the four principal araiiments used against me are as follow :- Firstly, that the new engine runs more steadily than its two-cylinder predecessor. This may well be the case. I believe the advantages of a three-cylinder engine are so considerable that the three-cylinder , even with this inclined outside cylinder arrangement, is better than a two-cylinder. This argument does not answer my criticism, because I am comparing one three-cylinder engine with another. Secondly, that thousands of engines are running in this country with inside cylinders inclined at I in 8. The fact that they have inside cylinders vitiates this argument. Thirdly, that owing to the weight of the Great Northern engine, the disturbances in running are not evident. This may be the case, but even if the disturbances are not evident the reactions will be there, none the less, although they are not seen. Fourthly, that I am right in theory, but that in practice it doesn’t matter.’’ I submit that sound theory is the -best basis for good design, and that this is a dangerous argument to use. It seems to me that this argument is quite inconsistent with the demand for every ounce of work from every ton of weight, to get which all causes tending to produce disturbance and friction must be eliminated.