Subject: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:21:57 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
This year is 50 years since I first cut my teeth on assembler programming on a 16kb PDP11-20, but I can today purchase microprocessors with an equal or better capability for only a few £££ or $$$.
Are there any other technologies that have had comparable periods of accelerated development?
Any of the other professionals who qualified at the same time as we engineers have only had to deal with the same characteristics as they dealt with 50 years ago with very minor changes, be they doctors or lawyers.
Pity the poor electronic engineer!
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:39:40 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: A.T. Murray
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 12:22:06 PM UTC-8, gareth evans wrote: > [...] > Are there any other technologies that have had comparable > periods of accelerated development? > > Pity the poor electronic engineer!
Artificial Intelligence (AI) is one technology recently blossoming with AI Minds thinking first in English, then in German, then Russian, and most recently in ancient Latin. https://ai.neocities.org/LaThink.html -- how an AI Mind thinks in ancient Latin.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:59:26 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:21:57 +0000 gareth evans
Page 1 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > This year is 50 years since I first cut my teeth on > assembler programming on a 16kb PDP11-20, but I can > today purchase microprocessors with an equal or better > capability for only a few £££ or $$$. > > Are there any other technologies that have had comparable > periods of accelerated development?
Flight! The Wright brothers got Kittyhawk off the ground in 1903, by 1953 we were seeing the first jet airliners (the 707 was only a year later) and we were only four years short of the first satellite launch.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by bert on Wed, 13 Jan 2021 21:16:23 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 21:00:06 UTC, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:21:57 +0000 > gareth evans
Maybe the 50 years (plus 1 month) from Alcock and Brown to Armstrong and Aldrin cover a bigger technological advance.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 13 Jan 2021 22:12:53 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 2 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 13/01/2021 20:59, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:21:57 +0000 > gareth evans
.... and of course my original interest in the previous 50 years from 1920, radio coming from crystal sets to portable transistor receivers. (But electronics again!)
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 13 Jan 2021 22:18:43 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 13/01/2021 21:16, bert wrote: > On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 21:00:06 UTC, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >> On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:21:57 +0000 >> gareth evans
Page 3 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >
Sorry, but having posed the question has brought to mind that for millennia, humanity existed with wood, stone and very little metal, and any possessions would be valued and keppt for generations, but the technologies of the past nearly 200 years have produced great waste in that a further development results in abandonment and scrapping of previous approaches.
What of humanity in the next 200, 2000, or 200,000 years when petroleum and coal are long exhausted. Are we too much concerned with our comforts of today?
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:16:54 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:16:23 -0800 (PST) bert
> On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 21:00:06 UTC, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> Flight! The Wright brothers got Kittyhawk off the ground in 1903, >> by 1953 we were seeing the first jet airliners (the 707 was only a year >> later) and we were only four years short of the first satellite launch. > > Maybe the 50 years (plus 1 month) from Alcock and Brown to > Armstrong and Aldrin cover a bigger technological advance.
Maybe, it was pretty fast from 1903 to some time in the 1970s and then slowed down quite a bit, short of the hypersonic planes that some were predicting a little earlier.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:45:17 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 22:18:43 +0000 gareth evans
Page 4 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Sorry, but having posed the question has brought to mind that for > millennia, humanity existed with wood, stone and very little metal, > and any possessions would be valued and kept for generations, but the
Also in very small numbers. The world population hit a billion for the first time 200 years ago.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:56:23 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Vir Campestris
On 13/01/2021 21:16, bert wrote: > Maybe the 50 years (plus 1 month) from Alcock and Brown to > Armstrong and Aldrin cover a bigger technological advance.
My grandfather was born before the Wright brother's flight, and was in the RFC in WW1. By the time he died we had men on the moon, and he'd been on Concorde.
What went wrong? I never dreamed when I was a child that I would see the end of supersonic transport, and the death of the last man who ever walked on the moon. It can't be far away now, they're all at least 85.
I'm glad I made my career in computers...
Andy
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 15:42:22 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:56:23 +0000 Vir Campestris
> What went wrong?
Page 5 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > I never dreamed when I was a child that I would see thel end of > supersonic transport,
Economics happened to that - for now at least. Musk seems to think he can make hypersonic sub-orbital transport pay.
> and the death of the last man who ever > walked on the moon. It can't be far away now, they're all at least 85.
Yeah, that is at least in part because nobody new why they went there in the first place, Von Braun's plans for going into space and to the planets sensibly were dropped in favour of "Whatever it takes get someone to the moon and back before the commies do".
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 17:12:27 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Ahem A Rivet's Shot
And there are three companies currently developing low-boom supersonic transport aircraft, two for bizjets and one for regular passenger service.
Boom Supersonic "Overture". First flight scheduled for 2023. 55 pax, mach 2.2 Aerion Supersonic "AS2". First flight 2023, mach 1.4, 12 pax. Spike Aerospace "S-512". First flight 2023, mach 1.6, 12-18 pax.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)
Page 6 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Posted by scott on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 17:16:00 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Dave Garland
Musings from a physicist who normally bounces lasers off the moon:
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/ https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/10/the-energy-trap/ https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/11/peak-oil-perspective/ https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/09/discovering-limits-to-gro wth/
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/12/the-future-needs-an-attit ude-adjustment/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:43:19 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 17:12:27 GMT [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Page 7 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > And there are three companies currently developing low-boom supersonic > transport aircraft, two for bizjets and one for regular passenger > service.
I knew of one, not the other two. I wonder how they'll pan out commercially.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 19:07:54 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:56:23 +0000, Vir Campestris
> On 13/01/2021 21:16, bert wrote: >> Maybe the 50 years (plus 1 month) from Alcock and Brown to >> Armstrong and Aldrin cover a bigger technological advance. > > My grandfather was born before the Wright brother's flight, and was in > the RFC in WW1. By the time he died we had men on the moon, and he'd > been on Concorde. > > What went wrong? I never dreamed when I was a child that I would see the > end of supersonic transport, and the death of the last man who ever > walked on the moon. It can't be far away now, they're all at least 85. > > I'm glad I made my career in computers...
Amen. > > Andy
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 19:50:35 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Page 8 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 17:12:27 GMT > [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote: > >> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
NASA is currently doing work to characterize low-boom effects on communities.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 20:04:21 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Radey Shouman [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> Dave Garland
Page 9 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > > Musings from a physicist who normally bounces lasers off the moon: > > https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/ > https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/10/the-energy-trap/ > https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/11/peak-oil-perspective/ > https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/09/discovering-limits-to-gro wth/ > > https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/12/the-future-needs-an-attit ude-adjustment/
In more or less the same spirit, an online book on what is possible with sustainable energy: https://www.withouthotair.com
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andreas Kohlbach on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 21:00:44 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 15:42:22 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:56:23 +0000 > Vir Campestris
Because Kennedy said so?
> Von Braun's plans for going into space and to the planets sensibly were > dropped in favour of "Whatever it takes get someone to the moon and > back before the commies do".
The arms race was the real deal, covered by the space race. Kind of "If we can send a man on the moon in a rocket, we can do the same with a nuclear tipped warhead directed into any other country.
The commies just followed the US' lead. But imagine what would had happened if the Russians, little before July 1969, sent a manned probe to Mars, which they had developed in all secrecy.
May be Kennedy already thought to outperform the Russians financially to drive them bankrupt faster, like Reagan successfully did more than a
Page 10 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria decade later, ending the USSR in 1991... -- Andreas
PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 21:20:59 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:07:54 -0500 J. Clarke
> On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:56:23 +0000, Vir Campestris >
>> I'm glad I made my career in computers... > > Amen.
I'm glad computers have held out as an expanding business for this much of my career, and that I switched from hardware to software very early.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 21:38:08 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Vir Campestris
On 14/01/2021 17:12, Scott Lurndal wrote: > And there are three companies currently developing low-boom supersonic > transport aircraft, two for bizjets and one for regular passenger > service.
We had a boom the other day. A bizjet inbound from Germany to London had its transponder off and didn't respond to signals. They scrambled the RAF with all dispatch... quite a little thing a Eurofighter is, and it rattled our windows 20 miles off the flightpath.
Page 11 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Andy
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 22:01:27 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message J. Clarke
> On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:56:23 +0000, Vir Campestris >
My father lived through the same era. He was landed in France hours after the armistice so missed WW I combat and he was never on a plane, let alone the Concorde. He was, after WW I, an extra in silent films and worked on building the Rose Bowl. He remaind amazed at the technological advances in his lifetime.
>> What went wrong? I never dreamed when I was a child that I would >> see the end of supersonic transport, and the death of the last man >> who ever walked on the moon. It can't be far away now, they're all >> at least 85. >> >> I'm glad I made my career in computers... > > Amen.
And I'm glad that, after a brief run at biochemistry, I made my career in blacksmithing. (Not farriery, mind you, but blacksmithing.) I took on computers after age 45 as an avocational pursuit.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 23:41:16 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 12 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria On 14 Jan 2021 18:01:27 -0400 Mike Spencer
> (Not farriery, mind you, but blacksmithing.)
Wise indeed, whenever I see a farrier with a steel shod horses foot resting on his thigh I can't help thinking of how easily a sharp edge could rip through his femoral artery or a sharp kick through his testicles.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 23:54:39 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 21:38:08 +0000, Vir Campestris
> On 14/01/2021 17:12, Scott Lurndal wrote: >> And there are three companies currently developing low-boom supersonic >> transport aircraft, two for bizjets and one for regular passenger >> service. > > We had a boom the other day. A bizjet inbound from Germany to London had > its transponder off and didn't respond to signals. They scrambled the > RAF with all dispatch... quite a little thing a Eurofighter is, and it > rattled our windows 20 miles off the flightpath.
And then there is SpaceX working on a more-boom hypersonic craft. Get you from New York to Tokyo in half an hour but there won't be a window left at either end.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Fri, 15 Jan 2021 00:11:35 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:54:39 -0500 J. Clarke
Page 13 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > And then there is SpaceX working on a more-boom hypersonic craft. Get > you from New York to Tokyo in half an hour but there won't be a window > left at either end.
IIRC the plan is to have them takeoff and land some distance off shore and ferry people to and from land. So here's what that half hour looks like: two hours to check in, thirty minutes to spaceport, thirty minutes boarding, thirty minutes getting ready and waiting on a slot, thirty minutes airborne, thirty minutes to mainland, two hours in immigration, thirty minutes in baggage control
Seven hours later and you've missed the last train and there's no taxis on the rank. The future looks a lot like the present.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Fri, 15 Jan 2021 01:00:53 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:54:39 -0500 > J. Clarke
Page 14 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > thirty minutes airborne, > thirty minutes to mainland, > two hours in immigration, > thirty minutes in baggage control > > Seven hours later and you've missed the last train and there's no > taxis on the rank. The future looks a lot like the present.
'Twas ever thus. B.C. spent $270 mil... oops, $450 million on their infamous Fast Cat ferries, promising to slash the time it took to get to and from Vancouver Island. As far as I know, the only person who liked them was a resident of Gabriola Island who would get out his surfboard every time one went by. They kicked up such a wake that they had to severly limit their speed during a good part of the trip, so they succeeded in shortening a 1:45 trip by 10 minutes. And you couldn't stay in your car but had to go up to a cramped upper deck, where you could watch your progress on a screen - or might have, if the map display wasn't replaced by ads as soon as you left port. And the only way they could get any speed at all was to redline the engines - and when the inevitable breakdowns occurred, they discovered that the only way to remove the engines for overhaul was to cut a hole in the hull. They were eventually removed from service (to the great relief of all), and sat in drydock as an embarrassing display until they were finally sold off for 10 cents on the dollar.
It all sounds like an Eric Idle skit. "I'm tired of being treated like a sheep..."
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 15 Jan 2021 04:32:08 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 15 Jan 2021 01:00:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> On 2021-01-15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Page 15 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> J. Clarke
If I was a zillionaire I would have bought one of them things and made a yacht out of it at that price.
Maybe I'm nuts but I like Incat ferries. One of them holds the transatlantic record. They spent a day in the middle of the ocean searching for a crashed airplane and _still_ broke the previous record.
Page 16 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > It all sounds like an Eric Idle skit. "I'm tired of being treated > like a sheep..."
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Fri, 15 Jan 2021 06:21:42 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> On 14 Jan 2021 18:01:27 -0400 > Mike Spencer
There is that brief moment, after each rear shoe nail is driven home but before the 1/2" to 1-1/2" projecting point has been snagged in the hammer claw and twisted off, when the horse holds your femoral artery in, so to speak, the palm of its hand, nifty leather apron notwithstanding. Six or eight such moments for each rear foot.
I put front shoes on my own horse once. I didn't lame the horse and the shoes stayed on but after that I hired a farrier, not as easy as it may sound as most farriers like to shoe riding horses and a big draught animal is, again so to speak, an horse of a differnt choler.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 17 Jan 2021 11:00:17 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Page 17 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Wise indeed, whenever I see a farrier with a steel shod horses foot > resting on his thigh I can't help thinking of how easily a sharp edge > could rip through his femoral artery or a sharp kick through his testicles. > > Yes, farriery is dangerous, which is why it is more an art than a science. Sue Doyle was killed by a kick that went over a closed stable door.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sun, 17 Jan 2021 11:59:36 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 17 Jan 2021 11:00:17 GMT maus
> Yes, farriery is dangerous, which is why it is more an art than a > science. Sue Doyle was killed by a kick that went over a closed stable > door.
Having seen a young woman thrown through a well built post and rail fence, shattering her pelvis and both rails, I'd say through would have been just as likely as over - not that it would make much difference to her.
Everything to do with horses is dangerous, I can't say I'm unhappy that my daughter has given up her (very feasible) ambitions as an event rider after getting a taste of the professional eventing world.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 17 Jan 2021 17:44:23 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 17/01/2021 11:59, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
Page 18 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Everything to do with horses is dangerous, I can't say I'm unhappy > that my daughter has given up her (very feasible) ambitions as an event > rider after getting a taste of the professional eventing world. >
Will she have competed down here in Wiltshire where we are BE-registered X-country jump judges?
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sun, 17 Jan 2021 19:10:36 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 17:44:23 +0000 gareth evans
> On 17/01/2021 11:59, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >> Everything to do with horses is dangerous, I can't say I'm >> unhappy that my daughter has given up her (very feasible) ambitions as >> an event rider after getting a taste of the professional eventing world. >> > > Will she have competed down here in Wiltshire where we are > BE-registered X-country jump judges?
No, we're in Ireland.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 17 Jan 2021 22:47:20 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-17, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Page 19 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> science. Sue Doyle was killed by a kick that went over a closed stable >> door. > > Having seen a young woman thrown through a well built post and rail > fence, shattering her pelvis and both rails, I'd say through would have > been just as likely as over - not that it would make much difference to her. > > Everything to do with horses is dangerous, I can't say I'm unhappy > that my daughter has given up her (very feasible) ambitions as an event > rider after getting a taste of the professional eventing world. >
Up there with cycling as if you dont like pain, dont compete
Real farriers can keep essencially very stupid racehorses calm while they work.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 18 Jan 2021 11:42:01 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 17/01/2021 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 17:44:23 +0000 > gareth evans
Bad luck with that, a country still largely controlled by the mores of make-believe (AKA religion) much as is Iran today.
Page 20 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:12:54 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 11:42:01 +0000 gareth evans
> Bad luck with that, a country still largely controlled by the > mores of make-believe (AKA religion) much as is Iran today.
Your information is somewhat out of date.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Elliott Roper on Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:29:27 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 18 Jan 2021 at 11:42:01 GMT, "gareth evans"
> On 17/01/2021 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >> On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 17:44:23 +0000 >> gareth evans
Have you been to Ireland recently? You would be surprised at the liberal
Page 21 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria forward looking place it now is. -- To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andy Leighton on Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:17:27 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:12:54 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Still can't get a beer before 1230 on Sunday though :-(
-- Andy Leighton => [email protected] "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Douglas Adams
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:23:29 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:29:27 +0000 (UTC), Elliott Roper
> On 18 Jan 2021 at 11:42:01 GMT, "gareth evans"
Page 22 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> > unhappy that my daughter has given up her (very feasible) ambitions as >>>> > an event rider after getting a taste of the professional eventing world. >>>> > >>>> >>>> Will she have competed down here in Wiltshire where we are >>>> BE-registered X-country jump judges? >>> >>> No, we're in Ireland. >>> >> >> Bad luck with that, a country still largely controlled by the >> mores of make-believe (AKA religion) much as is Iran today. > > > Have you been to Ireland recently? You would be surprised at the liberal > forward looking place it now is.
It is amazing how much people think they know about living conditions in places they have never been.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 18 Jan 2021 17:16:49 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 18/01/2021 12:12, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 11:42:01 +0000 > gareth evans
I immediately googled for abortion in Ireland to prove you wrong, but I'm not that far out of date! :-)
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 19 Jan 2021 10:04:36 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
Page 23 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria On 2021-01-18, gareth evans
Photos of priests here now are usually ones being accompanied by police into court.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 19 Jan 2021 10:07:06 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-18, Andy Leighton
Page 24 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >
Tap on the window, say ``Mick sent me''
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 19 Jan 2021 10:14:59 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-19, maus
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 19 Jan 2021 10:21:08 GMT
Page 25 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 10:07:06 GMT, maus
> On 2021-01-18, Andy Leighton
-- Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 19 Jan 2021 11:17:08 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-19, Kerr-Mudd,John
Page 26 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> gareth evans
As the original writer mentioned Iran, we should quote roughly
A BOOK of Verses underneath the Bough, A Jug of Wine, a Loaf of Bread—and Thou Beside me singing in the Wilderness— O, Wilderness were Paradise enow!
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Tue, 19 Jan 2021 17:58:53 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-19, maus
> On 2021-01-18, gareth evans
Page 27 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>> >>>> On 17/01/2021 11:59, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>> >>>> > Everything to do with horses is dangerous, I can't say I'm >>>> > unhappy that my daughter has given up her (very feasible) ambitions as >>>> > an event rider after getting a taste of the professional eventing world. >>>> > >>>> >>>> Will she have competed down here in Wiltshire where we are >>>> BE-registered X-country jump judges? >>> >>> No, we're in Ireland. >> >> Bad luck with that, a country still largely controlled by the >> mores of make-believe (AKA religion) much as is Iran today. > > Photos of priests here now are usually ones being accompanied by police > into court.
Man: I'm going to call the police. Woman: Shouldn't you call the Church? Son: Call the Church police. Man: ...all right. [shouts] The Church police! [Enter two policemen with ecclesiastical accoutrements.] -- Monty Python
Ireland looked pretty laid-back when we were there in 2017...
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andy Leighton on Tue, 19 Jan 2021 18:13:03 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 19 Jan 2021 10:07:06 GMT, maus
Page 28 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>> >>> Your information is somewhat out of date. >> >> Still can't get a beer before 1230 on Sunday though :-( >> > > Tap on the window, say ``Mick sent me''
Oh I am sure that the grand tradition of the lock-in (and early opening) is alive and well in a lot of places. However when I was recently there on a Sunday it was part of a SF convention in the CCD, and the previous times we were attending a con in a hotel.
-- Andy Leighton => [email protected] "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Douglas Adams
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 19 Jan 2021 21:39:40 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-19, Andy Leighton
Page 29 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Must have been fun, were many at both events?..
Happy inaugeration day to USAians
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andy Leighton on Wed, 20 Jan 2021 10:22:43 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 19 Jan 2021 21:39:40 GMT, maus
For Worldcon about 6500, and it was the same weekend as the Hurling final in 2019. The smaller cons were a lot smaller and were mainly Irish fans, with a chunk from the UK and a few from Europe.
All a lot of fun and I have seen just how much Ireland (or at least in and around the greater Dublin area) has changed over the past decade or two.
Page 30 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria -- Andy Leighton => [email protected] "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Douglas Adams
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 07:44:11 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-20, Andy Leighton
Incredible change in Dublin, I attend hospital in Tallagh once a week, the whole area is covered with office buildings intended for US tec firms who want Ireland as their base in the EU.(english speaking, but English is becoming second lang in the EU anyway).
Outside Dublen, the stream of life contonues as ever.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Sat, 23 Jan 2021 00:49:09 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message maus
Page 31 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> and around the greater Dublin area) has changed over the past decade or >> two. >> >> > > Incredible change in Dublin, I attend hospital in Tallagh once a week, > the whole area is covered with office buildings intended for US tec > firms who want Ireland as their base in the EU.(english speaking, but > English is becoming second lang in the EU anyway). > > Outside Dublen, the stream of life contonues as ever. >
Has the EU solved the “official language” problem yet? I read somewhere that Gaelic is the official language of Ireland ( maybe co-equal with English?) and with BREXIT that left no EU member whose official language was English, so it was no longer an official language of the EU.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sat, 23 Jan 2021 15:24:44 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-23, Peter Flass
Page 32 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > > Has the EU solved the “official language” problem yet? I read somewhere > that Gaelic is the official language of Ireland ( maybe co-equal with > English?) and with BREXIT that left no EU member whose official language > was English, so it was no longer an official language of the EU. > Gaelic is the First Language of Ireland.
In one lawcase yonks ago, our case was failing, and I asked our barrister if the Irish version of the law could be `consulted'.
He almst paled and said, ``Dont even think of that,''
I like English, its very common, even in India.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Sat, 23 Jan 2021 20:24:18 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-23, maus
> On 2021-01-23, Peter Flass
Still, though, I loved the sound of the language on the trains in the recorded announcements of such things as the upcoming stop. Even mundane phrases like "please keep your feet off the seats" sounded lovely in that wonderful speaking voice they used.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
Page 33 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Niklas Karlsson on Sun, 24 Jan 2021 12:49:41 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-23, Charlie Gibbs
In London:
Mind the gap.
In Stockholm:
Tänk på avståndet mellan vagn och plattform när du stiger av. (appx: Think of the distance between car and platform when you step off.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiUrZQm7cT4
Ironically, Swedish is usually pretty terse, but certainlly not in this case.
Niklas -- My main argument against autonomous probes is what alien cultures would think us if the got hold of a deep-space probe running Windows 7. Their anthropologists might enjoy the paradox of a civilisation being able to get off the planet with such software. -- Bernd Felsche
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sun, 24 Jan 2021 13:13:25 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 23 Jan 2021 20:24:18 GMT Charlie Gibbs
> Still, though, I loved the sound of the language on the trains
Page 34 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > in the recorded announcements of such things as the upcoming stop. > Even mundane phrases like "please keep your feet off the seats" > sounded lovely in that wonderful speaking voice they used.
Hmm The Bus Eireann regular "Stand clear, luggage doors operatin'" is less than lovely.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 07:00:43 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 22:30:28 -0500 Andreas Kohlbach
> I heard that if you want to work in an office at Nestle in Switzerland > speaking any of the four Swiss languages (German, French, Italian and > Romansh, sorted by numbers of speakers) won't help. You need to speak > English.
Similarly if you want a bar,hotel,restaurant ... job in central Amsterdam then Dutch is useless but English is essential and other European languages a bonus.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 15:46:13 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Andreas Kohlbach
> And German is much harder to learn than English, if you > are from Spain, France, Italy or any other country with its own proper > language.
Page 35 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Really? English is a very irregular language, while Deutsch is quite regular (with the odd exception here and there) and rather logical.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:52:02 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Scott Lurndal
One thing that English is really terrible at is pronounciation.
There is only a very loose correlation between what is written down and how it is pronounced. You can't really tell without knowing.
"ughoti" is the canonical example, of course.
(Guvf zrnaf "svfu". "htu" nf va "gbhtu", "b" nf va "jbzra", naq "gv nf va "angvba".)
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by John Levine on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:30:51 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message In article
Page 36 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> Really? English is a very irregular language, while Deutsch is >> quite regular (with the odd exception here and there) and rather logical.
The spelling is delightful but the genders and cases more than make up for it. Men and boys are masculine, women are feminine, but girls are neuter.
-- Regards, John Levine, [email protected], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:33:26 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Joacim Melin
SL> Andreas Kohlbach
>> And German is much harder to learn than English, if you >>are from Spain, France, Italy or any other country with its own proper >>language.
SL> Really? English is a very irregular language, while Deutsch is SL> quite regular (with the odd exception here and there) and rather logical.
German with it's grammar is a nightmare to learn. I tried back in school. English is also more accessible through TV and movies so you pick up way more that way.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:37:10 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
John Levine
Page 37 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> are from Spain, France, Italy or any other country with its own proper >>>> language. >>> >>> Really? English is a very irregular language, while Deutsch is >>> quite regular (with the odd exception here and there) and rather logical. > > The spelling is delightful but the genders and cases more than make up > for it. Men and boys are masculine, women are feminine, but girls are > neuter.
Mark Twain wrote a delightful piece about that.
(The neuter part comes from the diminutive "-chen", as in "Mädchen", "girl").
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:20:59 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 25/01/2021 15:46, Scott Lurndal wrote: > Andreas Kohlbach
Try learning Welsh (as I am currently having inherited a library of books) with 10 different ways of getting the plural of nouns, and the first letter mutating to something different depending on the context!
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:31:28 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:30:51 -0000 (UTC) John Levine
Page 38 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > The spelling is delightful but the genders and cases more than make up > for it. Men and boys are masculine, women are feminine, but girls are > neuter.
Coincidence bites again ? It is less than 24 hours since I was reading the bit in Artifact where a character is complaining about that very aspect of the German language.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:33:00 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message John Levine
Grammatical case (Nominative, Accusative, Genetive, Dative, etc) is also difficult for the typically american english speaker.
Granted, gender is a problem for english speakers learning Deutsch, but not for most other latin languages where gender (and more importantly case) are significant.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:42:47 GMT
Page 39 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:52:02 -0000 (UTC) Thomas Koenig
> One thing that English is really terrible at is pronounciation.
Ho hum, time for this again, try to read The Chaos aloud: http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 21:45:16 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: drb
> http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html.
LALR(howmany!?)
De
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Mon, 25 Jan 2021 23:02:37 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Andreas Kohlbach
Page 40 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Romansh, sorted by numbers of speakers) won't help. You need to speak > English. > > But if you want to have a "new official language" in the EU you might > have to look at German.
Somewhere I read that official EU documents have to be published in the official language of each of the member states. If no country has English as its official language then English is no longer required.
> German speakers account for the largest group > inside Europe. But that won't happen either. Everybody seems to be happy > with English now. And German is much harder to learn than English, if you > are from Spain, France, Italy or any other country with its own proper > language.
Every country is jealous of its own language. The French would probably never accept German, and vise-versa. I would think English is a much harder language than German because of its quixotic spelling and pronunciation. Its only advantage is its ubiquity, so everyone has some exposure to it. German is pronounced as it’s spelled.
> > I don't think anybody wants to learn German or Gaelic in Europe.
I (sort of) learned German for a number of reasons. One of them is that it’s the most widely-spoken language. I’d love to learn Gaelic, among others, but I think 1-1/2 languages are about my limit.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 01:37:23 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-25, Scott Lurndal
> John Levine
Page 41 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> >>>> > And German is much harder to learn than English, if you >>>> > are from Spain, France, Italy or any other country with >>>> > its own proper language. >>>> >>>> Really? English is a very irregular language, while Deutsch is >>>> quite regular (with the odd exception here and there) and rather logical. >> >> The spelling is delightful but the genders and cases more than make up >> for it. Men and boys are masculine, women are feminine, but girls are >> neuter. > > Grammatical case (Nominative, Accusative, Genetive, Dative, etc) is also > difficult for the typically american english speaker. > > Granted, gender is a problem for english speakers learning Deutsch, but not > for most other latin languages where gender (and more importantly case) > are significant.
What drove me nuts is the way adjectives take endings which vary depending on gender, number, and case. On the other hand, it was nice to have no doubts as to how to pronounce "ei" or "ie".
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by John Levine on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 01:47:39 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message In article <202855318.633307912.602706.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, Peter Flass
I think you have made a lot of Irish people sad.
>> I don't think anybody wants to learn German or Gaelic in Europe.
Lots of people want to learn German if they plan to live or work in
Page 42 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Germany or Austria or Switzerland. While most German speakers speak at least some English, you're at a disadvantage if you have to ask people to switch. My German is pretty bad, but I found that people in Germany appreciated and were sometimes amused by my efforts to speak their language.
On the other hand, everyone in Ireland and Scotland now speaks English. While there are cultural and political reasons one might learn Irish or Gaelic, you don't need it to communicate.
I read somewhere that the EU has chronic problems finding translators between their minor languages, e.g. between Danish and Greek. They don't want to fall back to double translation with a a major language in between.
-- Regards, John Levine, [email protected], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by John Levine on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 03:47:24 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message In article <[email protected]>, Andreas Kohlbach
It has two and a half.
The two are nominative (the pig) and possessive (the pig's.) The half is objective which only applies to four pronouns, I/me, he/him, she/her, they/them. The other two pronouns have the same objective form it/it, you/you.
Possessive case is extremely regular other than the six pronouns.
We overcompensate with a vast number of verb forms and irregular verbs ("He would have been thought foolish.")
-- Regards, John Levine, [email protected], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Page 43 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 08:09:43 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-25, Peter Flass
I stand corrected on my earlier post, English and Gaelic are joint official languages of the Irish Republic. Lallans(sp) is, AFAIK, recognized as a language in Northern Ireland.
Again, I like English, noboody, AFAIK, official body to tell people how to pronounce or spell. Old Gaelic placenames tell a more honest descripion than the newer English ones, I think thhe original name for Sundrive Road was something like `gloomy lane'.
AFAIK, without checking, back in the time when the Nation was being formed, there was a suggestion that german be adopted as the offical lannguage of the US.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 08:23:54 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 44 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-26, John Levine
``Why are you strangling my language?'' > > > On the other hand, everyone in Ireland and Scotland now speaks > English. While there are cultural and political reasons one might > learn Irish or Gaelic, you don't need it to communicate. > > I read somewhere that the EU has chronic problems finding translators > between their minor languages, e.g. between Danish and Greek. They > don't want to fall back to double translation with a a major language > in between. > Politics rears its ugly head. During the 30s, there was a movement to replace English words with German in Germany `fernseher'?. Up North, speaking Gaelic will identify one as a Republican, whereas speaking Welsh in Wales does not send any message.
Page 45 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria -- [email protected]
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 08:28:30 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-26, Andreas Kohlbach
Luxenburg, AFAIK, has its own dialect
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 09:35:06 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 46 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig maus
>> Anyway, suppose Dutch was also on their repertoire. They were truly >> quad... (what comes after trilingual?). > > Luxenburg, AFAIK, has its own dialect
Switzerland is even more extreme.
The written version of Swiss German is almost identical to that of Germany, with a few words that are different and one variant in spelling, they do not use the ß and write ss instead.
("Trinkt Aklohol in Maßen" means "Drink alcohol in moderation". In the Swiss variant, you have to write this as "Trinkt Alkohol in Massen", which in standard German means "Drink lots and lots of alcohol". Go figure.)
However, Swiss German has a "dialect continuum", which means that the dialect varies from canton to canton, and people from different cantons may have real trouble understanding each other. For people from Germany, Swiss German can be almost impossible to understand.
Most Swiss know how to speak standard German (with an accent). I think the news is usually read using standard German, but that is changing a little towards Swiss German now.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 09:42:27 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 08:23:54 GMT, maus
> On 2021-01-26, John Levine
Page 47 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>> English as its official language then English is no longer required. >> >> I think you have made a lot of Irish people sad. >> > And a great many happy. Irish people only start liking Gaelic when > they emigrate. Otherwise it is a PITA. >> >>>> I don't think anybody wants to learn German or Gaelic in Europe. >> >> Lots of people want to learn German if they plan to live or work in >> Germany or Austria or Switzerland. >> > In the latter two, local variants are common. >> >> >> While most German speakers speak at >> least some English, you're at a disadvantage if you have to ask >> people to switch. My German is pretty bad, but I found that people in >> Germany appreciated and were sometimes amused by my efforts to speak >> their language. > > ``Why are you strangling my language?'' >> >> >> On the other hand, everyone in Ireland and Scotland now speaks >> English. While there are cultural and political reasons one might >> learn Irish or Gaelic, you don't need it to communicate. >> >> I read somewhere that the EU has chronic problems finding translators >> between their minor languages, e.g. between Danish and Greek. They >> don't want to fall back to double translation with a a major language >> in between. >> > Politics rears its ugly head. During the 30s, there was a movement to > replace English words with German in Germany `fernseher'?. Up North, > speaking Gaelic will identify one as a Republican, whereas speaking > Welsh in Wales does not send any message. > I think that the English consider that people speaking Welsh in the company of an English person is a snub!
IRRC the last monolingual Welsh speaker died in the 1980s. I see the Irish can name theirs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_%C3%93_hEinir%C3%AD -- Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Page 48 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 10:16:44 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 09:42:27 -0000 (UTC) "Kerr-Mudd,John"
> I think that the English consider that people speaking Welsh in the > company of an English person is a snub!
I have heard Welsh people talking in corridors switching language as I approach and switching back after I have passed.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:01:44 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 26/01/2021 01:47, John Levine wrote: > > ... They > don't want to fall back to double translation with a a major language > in between. >
A topic well covered by Monty Python ... My hovercraft is full of eels
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 18:03:57 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 22:35:07 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
Page 49 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>>
>>>> that Gaelic is the official language of Ireland ( maybe co-equal with >>>> English?) and with BREXIT that left no EU member whose official language >>>> was English, so it was no longer an official language of the EU. >>> >>> There is no language problem in the EU. English is and was the language >>> of business and IT, and that is unlikely to change. >>> >>> I heard that if you want to work in an office at Nestle in Switzerland >>> speaking any of the four Swiss languages (German, French, Italian and >>> Romansh, sorted by numbers of speakers) won't help. You need to speak >>> English. >>> >>> But if you want to have a "new official language" in the EU you might >>> have to look at German. >> >> Somewhere I read that official EU documents have to be published in the >> official language of each of the member states. If no country has English >> as its official language then English is no longer required. > > The EU has still a long way ahead to become one country. So documents are > handled like in the past X hundred year inside of every country. That > might be different in the European parliament. Am guessing here and > assume they are issued in all languages of the members of the EU. Some > countries, like Germany, Austria and parts of Switzerland can be > eliminated because they speak German, while France and Italy take care > of the French and Italian parts of Switzerland. > > Then look at the United Nations HQ in New York. Suppose not everyone > speaks English. > >>> German speakers account for the largest group >>> inside Europe. But that won't happen either. Everybody seems to be happy >>> with English now. And German is much harder to learn than English, if you >>> are from Spain, France, Italy or any other country with its own proper >>> language. >> >> Every country is jealous of its own language. The French would probably >> never accept German, and vise-versa. > > Yes, I agree. > >> I would think English is a much harder language than German because of >> its quixotic spelling and pronunciation. > > I guess you're wrong here. >
Page 50 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Anyone here not a native English speaker, who learned English and German, > can tell what was harder to learn? > >> Its only advantage is its ubiquity, so everyone has some exposure to
> > With few exception, plus regional differences. > >>> I don't think anybody wants to learn German or Gaelic in Europe. >> >> I (sort of) learned German for a number of reasons. One of them is that
>> others, but I think 1-1/2 languages are about my limit. > > German most widely spoken? I assume that is either Chinese (well they > have different flavors), Hindu (they also have) or Spanish. Almost all > countries of South America (Brazil might be one of the few exceptions) > have Spanish as official language. > > French might also have a large area outside mainland France. Many African > countries for example.
In US high schools we were taught Castilliano Spanish. A closer to formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain.
I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 18:31:07 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-26, gareth evans
> On 26/01/2021 01:47, John Levine wrote: > >> ... They >> don't want to fall back to double translation with a a major language >> in between. > > A topic well covered by Monty Python ... My hovercraft is full of eels
Page 51 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Then there's Pedro Carolino's delightful book _English As She Is Spoke_, a Portugese-English phrasebook. The author, undeterred by the fact that he didn't speak English, passed phrases through a Portugese-French book followed by a French-English book. The results are a delightful piece of unintentional humour.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 18:34:10 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-26, JimP
> In US high schools we were taught Castilliano Spanish. A closer to > formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what > I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they > couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was > speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain. > > I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use.
By the same token, Canadian schools taught Parisian French. Many people felt we should be taught Quebec French, although there was some concern that we might all sink into some sort of filthy lower-class joual.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:06:24 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Andreas Kohlbach
Page 52 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> Andreas Kohlbach
Multi-
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:06:25 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Andreas Kohlbach
Page 53 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > English has only one article, no matter what gender. It's always "the" or > "a(n)". French had two plus one for plural (le and la and les) while > German has three (die, der and das), and "die" for plural. Since "die" is > the feminine article everything, also more than one man ("men") becomes > feminine. Also you cannot guess in French or English (suppose Spanish, > Italian and other languages with more than one article) if the article is > masculine, feminine, or worse in German, neutral. For example a tree is > masculine, a boat is neutral (you might have heard about the German 80s > movie "Das Boot"), while a hedge is female. In English you don't have to > care about genders. > > Then there are cases. English doesn't know of them. I think French has > two. German has four and Russian six. And there is where novice German > speakers will have it wrong in most cases. Like "The car belongs to th > man". > > Novice speakers would most likely say "Das Auto gehört der Mann", because > "der" is a masculine article. Correct is "Das Auto gehört dem Mann". But > if you use woman (Frau) instead of a man you get "Das Auto gehört der > Frau". Again, "der" is masculine, but it is correct! Because this is the > third case (accusative)
German seems to use fewer verb tenses. English is fussier about past, past perfect, etc.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:06:26 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Andreas Kohlbach
Page 54 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> that Gaelic is the official language of Ireland ( maybe co-equal with >>>> English?) and with BREXIT that left no EU member whose official language >>>> was English, so it was no longer an official language of the EU. >>> >>> There is no language problem in the EU. English is and was the language >>> of business and IT, and that is unlikely to change. >>> >>> I heard that if you want to work in an office at Nestle in Switzerland >>> speaking any of the four Swiss languages (German, French, Italian and >>> Romansh, sorted by numbers of speakers) won't help. You need to speak >>> English. >>> >>> But if you want to have a "new official language" in the EU you might >>> have to look at German. >> >> Somewhere I read that official EU documents have to be published in the >> official language of each of the member states. If no country has English >> as its official language then English is no longer required. > > The EU has still a long way ahead to become one country. So documents are > handled like in the past X hundred year inside of every country. That > might be different in the European parliament. Am guessing here and > assume they are issued in all languages of the members of the EU. Some > countries, like Germany, Austria and parts of Switzerland can be > eliminated because they speak German, while France and Italy take care > of the French and Italian parts of Switzerland. >
I don’t think Switzerland is an EU country, but there are differences among Swiss, Austrian, and German German. How do they handle spelling differences? It’s like US, Canadian, and UK spelling. Everyone likes to see things the way they’re used to, even if it’s as minor as “color” vs “colour”.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:06:28 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Thomas Koenig
Page 55 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> >> Luxenburg, AFAIK, has its own dialect > > Switzerland is even more extreme. > > The written version of Swiss German is almost identical to that > of Germany, with a few words that are different and one variant > in spelling, they do not use the ß and write ss instead. > > ("Trinkt Aklohol in Maßen" means "Drink alcohol in moderation". > In the Swiss variant, you have to write this as "Trinkt Alkohol > in Massen", which in standard German means "Drink lots and lots > of alcohol". Go figure.) > > However, Swiss German has a "dialect continuum", which means that > the dialect varies from canton to canton, and people from different > cantons may have real trouble understanding each other. For people > from Germany, Swiss German can be almost impossible to understand.
For people from Germany, people from other regions can be difficult to understand, but there may be fewer regional dialects in Germany than in England.
> > Most Swiss know how to speak standard German (with an accent). > I think the news is usually read using standard German, but that > is changing a little towards Swiss German now. >
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:06:29 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Kerr-Mudd,John
Page 56 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> >>>> Somewhere I read that official EU documents have to be published in >>>> the official language of each of the member states. If no country has >>>> English as its official language then English is no longer required. >>> >>> I think you have made a lot of Irish people sad. >>> >> And a great many happy. Irish people only start liking Gaelic when >> they emigrate. Otherwise it is a PITA. >>> >>>> > I don't think anybody wants to learn German or Gaelic in Europe. >>> >>> Lots of people want to learn German if they plan to live or work in >>> Germany or Austria or Switzerland. >>> >> In the latter two, local variants are common. >>> >>> >>> While most German speakers speak at >>> least some English, you're at a disadvantage if you have to ask >>> people to switch. My German is pretty bad, but I found that people in >>> Germany appreciated and were sometimes amused by my efforts to speak >>> their language. >> >> ``Why are you strangling my language?'' >>> >>> >>> On the other hand, everyone in Ireland and Scotland now speaks >>> English. While there are cultural and political reasons one might >>> learn Irish or Gaelic, you don't need it to communicate. >>> >>> I read somewhere that the EU has chronic problems finding translators >>> between their minor languages, e.g. between Danish and Greek. They >>> don't want to fall back to double translation with a a major language >>> in between. >>> >> Politics rears its ugly head. During the 30s, there was a movement to >> replace English words with German in Germany `fernseher'?. Up North, >> speaking Gaelic will identify one as a Republican, whereas speaking >> Welsh in Wales does not send any message. >> > I think that the English consider that people speaking Welsh in the > company of an English person is a snub!
In mixed company it is. I hear French people,do, or did, will refuse answer a question in English, even if they speak and understand the language.
>
Page 57 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > IRRC the last monolingual Welsh speaker died in the 1980s. > I see the Irish can name theirs: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_%C3%93_hEinir%C3%AD
It’s dad to see a language fade out. Each different language is really a different way of thinking about things
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:06:30 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
>>>> > that Gaelic is the official language of Ireland ( maybe co-equal with >>>> > English?) and with BREXIT that left no EU member whose official language >>>> > was English, so it was no longer an official language of the EU. >>>> >>>> There is no language problem in the EU. English is and was the language >>>> of business and IT, and that is unlikely to change. >>>> >>>> I heard that if you want to work in an office at Nestle in Switzerland >>>> speaking any of the four Swiss languages (German, French, Italian and >>>> Romansh, sorted by numbers of speakers) won't help. You need to speak >>>> English. >>>> >>>> But if you want to have a "new official language" in the EU you might >>>> have to look at German. >>> >>> Somewhere I read that official EU documents have to be published in the >>> official language of each of the member states. If no country has English >>> as its official language then English is no longer required. >> >> The EU has still a long way ahead to become one country. So documents are >> handled like in the past X hundred year inside of every country. That >> might be different in the European parliament. Am guessing here and
Page 58 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> assume they are issued in all languages of the members of the EU. Some >> countries, like Germany, Austria and parts of Switzerland can be >> eliminated because they speak German, while France and Italy take care >> of the French and Italian parts of Switzerland. >> >> Then look at the United Nations HQ in New York. Suppose not everyone >> speaks English. >> >>>> German speakers account for the largest group >>>> inside Europe. But that won't happen either. Everybody seems to be happy >>>> with English now. And German is much harder to learn than English, if you >>>> are from Spain, France, Italy or any other country with its own proper >>>> language. >>> >>> Every country is jealous of its own language. The French would probably >>> never accept German, and vise-versa. >> >> Yes, I agree. >> >>> I would think English is a much harder language than German because of >>> its quixotic spelling and pronunciation. >> >> I guess you're wrong here. >> >> Anyone here not a native English speaker, who learned English and German, >> can tell what was harder to learn? >> >>> Its only advantage is its ubiquity, so everyone has some exposure to
>> >> With few exception, plus regional differences. >> >>>> I don't think anybody wants to learn German or Gaelic in Europe. >>> >>> I (sort of) learned German for a number of reasons. One of them is that
>>> others, but I think 1-1/2 languages are about my limit. >> >> German most widely spoken? I assume that is either Chinese (well they >> have different flavors), Hindu (they also have) or Spanish. Almost all >> countries of South America (Brazil might be one of the few exceptions) >> have Spanish as official language. >> >> French might also have a large area outside mainland France. Many African >> countries for example. > > In US high schools we were taught Castilliano Spanish. A closer to > formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what
Page 59 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they > couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was > speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain. > > I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use. >
You probably could, if you were in Madrid. Barcelona is in Catalonia, and Catalan is common, and onsidered a separate language. I always thought US schools should teach Mexican Spanish.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:17:45 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: jolomo
Not so long ago, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2021-01-26, JimP
>> In US high schools we were taught Castilliano Spanish. A closer to >> formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what >> I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they >> couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was >> speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain. >> >> I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use.
> By the same token, Canadian schools taught Parisian French. > Many people felt we should be taught Quebec French, although > there was some concern that we might all sink into some sort > of filthy lower-class joual.
When I was growing up in Texas, they taught Castillian Spanish instead of what the locals spoke. I took Latin instead :)
-- Joe Morris [email protected]
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:43:55 GMT
Page 60 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 12:06:30 -0700, Peter Flass
Page 61 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> > language. >>>> >>>> Every country is jealous of its own language. The French would probably >>>> never accept German, and vise-versa. >>> >>> Yes, I agree. >>> >>>> I would think English is a much harder language than German because of >>>> its quixotic spelling and pronunciation. >>> >>> I guess you're wrong here. >>> >>> Anyone here not a native English speaker, who learned English and German, >>> can tell what was harder to learn? >>> >>>> Its only advantage is its ubiquity, so everyone has some exposure to >>>> it. German is pronounced as it?s spelled. >>> >>> With few exception, plus regional differences. >>> >>>> > I don't think anybody wants to learn German or Gaelic in Europe. >>>> >>>> I (sort of) learned German for a number of reasons. One of them is that >>>> it?s the most widely-spoken language. I?d love to learn Gaelic, among >>>> others, but I think 1-1/2 languages are about my limit. >>> >>> German most widely spoken? I assume that is either Chinese (well they >>> have different flavors), Hindu (they also have) or Spanish. Almost all >>> countries of South America (Brazil might be one of the few exceptions) >>> have Spanish as official language. >>> >>> French might also have a large area outside mainland France. Many African >>> countries for example. >> >> In US high schools we were taught Castilliano Spanish. A closer to >> formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what >> I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they >> couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was >> speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain. >> >> I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use. >> > > You probably could, if you were in Madrid. Barcelona is in Catalonia, and > Catalan is common, and onsidered a separate language. I always thought US > schools should teach Mexican Spanish.
None of my high school Spanish teachers were from Mexico. I had my
Page 62 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria first class in Texas. IIRC, my teachers were from Columbia, Nicaragua, and Cuba. My junior college teacher in Spanish, as far I could tell, didn't grow up speaking Spanish, but she was very good at it.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:46:19 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:17:45 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Joe Morris) wrote: > Not so long ago, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2021-01-26, JimP
I, and most of my fellow students in Texas, were not allowed to take Latin unless we or our parents could convince the school the kid was going to be a doctor or some other job that used latin. So most of us wound up learning Spanish.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 20:05:59 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 63 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Originally posted by: drb
> I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use.
There seems to be a common belief that teaching something more formal (Castilian Spanish, "Modern Standard" [more Quranic, we were told] Arabic) makes it more likely that you'll be able to communicate with whomever you encounter.
"More likely" is of course statistical, and even then may or may not be correct.
De
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 20:49:11 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
>>> >>> In US high schools we were taught Castilliano Spanish. A closer to >>> formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what >>> I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they >>> couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was >>> speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain. >>> >>> I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use. >>> >> >> You probably could, if you were in Madrid. Barcelona is in Catalonia, and >> Catalan is common, and onsidered a separate language. I always thought US >> schools should teach Mexican Spanish. > > None of my high school Spanish teachers were from Mexico. I had my > first class in Texas. IIRC, my teachers were from Columbia, Nicaragua, > and Cuba. My junior college teacher in Spanish, as far I could tell, > didn't grow up speaking Spanish, but she was very good at it.
That was, I suppose many decades ago now.
My nieces both went to spanish immersion school for the six years of grade school in california. It's been immeasurably useful for both as adults.
My niece's car had been stolen when she was in Oakland
Page 64 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria on business a few years back - when it was recovered she and her mom (nordic blonde types) went to the auto shop where the recovered vehicle was stored to pick it up and the employees started making lewd comments in spanish, which my niece quickly shut down in literate spanish and they became quite cooperative.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:13:37 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-26, Peter Flass
> German seems to use fewer verb tenses. English is fussier about past, > past perfect, etc.
And then you see all those auxiliary verbs piled up at the end of a German sentence...
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:18:03 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:06:26 GMT, Peter Flass
> Andreas Kohlbach
Page 65 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> >>>> There is no language problem in the EU. English is and was the >>>> language of business and IT, and that is unlikely to change. >>>> >>>> I heard that if you want to work in an office at Nestle in >>>> Switzerland speaking any of the four Swiss languages (German, >>>> French, Italian and Romansh, sorted by numbers of speakers) won't >>>> help. You need to speak English. >>>> >>>> But if you want to have a "new official language" in the EU you >>>> might have to look at German. >>> >>> Somewhere I read that official EU documents have to be published in >>> the official language of each of the member states. If no country >>> has English as its official language then English is no longer >>> required. >> >> The EU has still a long way ahead to become one country. So documents >> are handled like in the past X hundred year inside of every country. >> That might be different in the European parliament. Am guessing here >> and assume they are issued in all languages of the members of the EU. >> Some countries, like Germany, Austria and parts of Switzerland can be >> eliminated because they speak German, while France and Italy take >> care of the French and Italian parts of Switzerland. >> > > I don’t think Switzerland is an EU country, but there are > differences among Swiss, Austrian, and German German. How do they
AIUI there's quite a few different German Germans! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_dialects
(and variations even within Austria)
> handle spelling differences? It’s like US, Canadian, and UK > spelling. Everyone likes to see things the way they’re used to, even > if it’s as minor as “color” vs “colour”. >
-- Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)
Page 66 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Posted by Rich Alderson on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:27:05 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Dan Espen on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:34:05 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message [email protected] (Dennis Boone) writes:
>> I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use. > > There seems to be a common belief that teaching something more formal > (Castilian Spanish, "Modern Standard" [more Quranic, we were told] > Arabic) makes it more likely that you'll be able to communicate with > whomever you encounter. > > "More likely" is of course statistical, and even then may or may not be > correct.
There's also the issue of teaching material. You need text books, tests, etc.
-- Dan Espen
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Rich Alderson on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:42:33 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message John Levine
> In article <[email protected]>, > Andreas Kohlbach
> It has two and a half.
> The two are nominative (the pig) and possessive (the pig's.) The half is > objective which only applies to four pronouns, I/me, he/him, she/her, > they/them. The other two pronouns have the same objective form it/it, > you/you.
In slightly older English (but later than Shakespeare), you still see the difference between ye/you and thou/thee.
Page 67 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Possessive case is extremely regular other than the six pronouns.
Dialectally less regular than you might think. he/his/him she/her/her it/its/it they/their/them
I/mine/me thou/thine/thee we/our/us ye/your/you
_my_ and _thy_ actually arise from the *dropping* of the (phonologically) final -n before consonants, which was later generalized to all contexts; in the older language, "my own" was "mine own", for example.
Dialectally, the final -n was *generalized*, so that forms like _hisn_, _hern_, and _yourn_ occur in speech. (Part of my childhood in Texas was spent with people who said things like "This one is mine, and that one is yourn.")
Similarly, the predicate forms _hers_ and _yours_ arise from a generalization of the final -s of _his_ and _its_ along with the general -s of nouns.
-- Rich Alderson [email protected] Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur, omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus. --Galen
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:57:20 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Peter Flass
> I don’t think Switzerland is an EU country,
You're right, it is not.
> but there are differences > among Swiss, Austrian, and German German.
Page 68 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria There are actually four official languages in Switzerland: German, French, Italian and Romansh. Most people who speak German in Swizerland speak Swiss German, fewer speak Swiss Standard German.
> How do they handle spelling > differences?
There are only very few (plus a few words which are different). The only difference I know is that Swiss Standard German does not use the ß (sharp s), using ss instead.
There is no commonly agreed form to write Swiss German, people use Swiss Standard German instead.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:11:26 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 26 Jan 2021 16:42:33 -0500 Rich Alderson
> In slightly older English (but later than Shakespeare), you still see the > difference between ye/you and thou/thee.
Ye is still used in Ireland but not thou or thee and the distinction between ye and you has worn thin.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:19:24 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Charlie Gibbs
Page 69 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Not to mention the compound words.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:22:12 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:25:08 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Charlie Gibbs
> On 2021-01-26, JimP
And English Quebecois friends who are nevertheless fluent in Quebec French report being treated with scorn when in Paris.
I have a fellow-blacksmith friend in Pliezhausen whose wife is Schweizdeutsh. She has to make a special effort, even after decades in Germany, to speak Hochdeutsch.
As for my own German, I'm so hard of hearing that I have trouble with my native English so my German excursions are limited to loud one-liners of reading.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Page 70 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:31:05 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
> None of my high school Spanish teachers were from Mexico. I had my > first class in Texas. IIRC, my teachers were from Columbia, Nicaragua, > and Cuba. My junior college teacher in Spanish, as far I could tell, > didn't grow up speaking Spanish, but she was very good at it.
Circa 1957, my high school German teacher took a leave of absence due to her husband's illness and subsequent death. The substitute was Mrs. Gagliarducci, fluent in Italian, ignorant of even the basic pronounciation rules of German, not a word of vocabulary, but officially designated as a "language teacher", thus qualified to fill the slot.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:44:00 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Peter Flass
>> Then there are cases. English doesn't know of them. I think French has >> two. German has four and Russian six. And there is where novice German >> speakers will have it wrong in most cases. Like "The car belongs to th >> man".
Gripe, gripe. Everybody should have a few years of Latin to get used to the idea of orderly grammar, not the grab bag we have in English.
Teacher: What is the vocative of mensa?
Young Winston Churchill: Where, Sir, would I use the vocative of mensa?
Teacher: Why, in addressing a table.
YWC: Sir, I do not speak to tables.
> German seems to use fewer verb tenses. English is fussier about past, past > perfect, etc.
Page 71 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria I'm not so sure about that, but don't forget that indirect discourse in German uses the subjunctive or the (now, I suppose, obsolete) matter of addressing superiors in the third person.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:47:08 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Charlie Gibbs
> On 2021-01-26, Peter Flass
But then there's prepositions in English.
Man to cat under his chair: "Come on up out from down in under there."
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Elliott Roper on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:10:50 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 26 Jan 2021 at 22:31:05 GMT, "Mike Spencer"
> Circa 1957, my high school German teacher took a leave of absence due > to her husband's illness and subsequent death. The substitute was > Mrs. Gagliarducci, fluent in Italian, ignorant of even the basic > pronounciation rules of German, not a word of vocabulary, but > officially designated as a "language teacher", thus qualified to fill > the slot.
Damn lucky she was not officially designated as an espresso machine! -- To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
Page 72 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:21:28 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 12:06:29 -0700, Peter Flass
> Kerr-Mudd,John
Page 73 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> On the other hand, everyone in Ireland and Scotland now speaks >>>> English. While there are cultural and political reasons one might >>>> learn Irish or Gaelic, you don't need it to communicate. >>>> >>>> I read somewhere that the EU has chronic problems finding translators >>>> between their minor languages, e.g. between Danish and Greek. They >>>> don't want to fall back to double translation with a a major language >>>> in between. >>>> >>> Politics rears its ugly head. During the 30s, there was a movement to >>> replace English words with German in Germany `fernseher'?. Up North, >>> speaking Gaelic will identify one as a Republican, whereas speaking >>> Welsh in Wales does not send any message. >>> >> I think that the English consider that people speaking Welsh in the >> company of an English person is a snub! > > In mixed company it is. I hear French people,do, or did, will refuse answer > a question in English, even if they speak and understand the language.
On the other hand you can wear them down. I remember the counter person at a fast food place finally telling me "Just say it in English".
>> >> IRRC the last monolingual Welsh speaker died in the 1980s. >> I see the Irish can name theirs: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_%C3%93_hEinir%C3%AD > > It’s dad to see a language fade out. Each different language is really a > different way of thinking about things
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:23:34 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 26 Jan 2021 18:31:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> On 2021-01-26, gareth evans
Page 74 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>> in between. >> >> A topic well covered by Monty Python ... My hovercraft is full of eels > > Then there's Pedro Carolino's delightful book _English As She Is Spoke_, > a Portugese-English phrasebook. The author, undeterred by the fact that > he didn't speak English, passed phrases through a Portugese-French book > followed by a French-English book. The results are a delightful piece > of unintentional humour.
Then there is the famous and likely apocryphal round trip from English to Russian and back. What went in was "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak", what came back was "The vodka is strong but the meat is rotten".
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:26:04 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:17:45 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Joe Morris) wrote:
> Not so long ago, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2021-01-26, JimP
In Florida I have no idea what kind of Spanish they were teaching. After observing the Spanish teacher attempting to correct the usage of a person born and raised in Spain who was employed by the Spanish government, I came to realize that the teacher had no idea either.
Page 75 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:34:00 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 12:06:30 -0700, Peter Flass
> JimP
Page 76 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> > inside Europe. But that won't happen either. Everybody seems to be happy >>>> > with English now. And German is much harder to learn than English, if you >>>> > are from Spain, France, Italy or any other country with its own proper >>>> > language. >>>> >>>> Every country is jealous of its own language. The French would probably >>>> never accept German, and vise-versa. >>> >>> Yes, I agree. >>> >>>> I would think English is a much harder language than German because of >>>> its quixotic spelling and pronunciation. >>> >>> I guess you're wrong here. >>> >>> Anyone here not a native English speaker, who learned English and German, >>> can tell what was harder to learn? >>> >>>> Its only advantage is its ubiquity, so everyone has some exposure to >>>> it. German is pronounced as it?s spelled. >>> >>> With few exception, plus regional differences. >>> >>>> > I don't think anybody wants to learn German or Gaelic in Europe. >>>> >>>> I (sort of) learned German for a number of reasons. One of them is that >>>> it?s the most widely-spoken language. I?d love to learn Gaelic, among >>>> others, but I think 1-1/2 languages are about my limit. >>> >>> German most widely spoken? I assume that is either Chinese (well they >>> have different flavors), Hindu (they also have) or Spanish. Almost all >>> countries of South America (Brazil might be one of the few exceptions) >>> have Spanish as official language. >>> >>> French might also have a large area outside mainland France. Many African >>> countries for example. >> >> In US high schools we were taught Castilliano Spanish. A closer to >> formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what >> I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they >> couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was >> speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain. >> >> I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use. >> > > You probably could, if you were in Madrid. Barcelona is in Catalonia, and > Catalan is common, and onsidered a separate language. I always thought US
Page 77 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > schools should teach Mexican Spanish.
I am reminded of a former coworker, a native speaker of Arabic, telling of her travels. She says that it's interesting to talk to Muslims in places where Arabic is not the native language--many of them learn to communicate in Arabic but it tends to be very formal. She used the example of a Pakistani who every time he encountered her gave her this long flowery greeting to which she would reply with the equivalent of "Hey, 's up".
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:55:38 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-26, Mike Spencer
> Charlie Gibbs
"What did you bring that book I didn't want to be read to out of about Down Under up for?"
(Yes, that's stretching it a bit...)
It must have been someone like William Safire who once wrote about the grammar police showing up and setting fire to a stack of prepositions he had been saving up to end sentences with.
This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put. -- Winston Churchill
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Page 78 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:55:39 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-26, Scott Lurndal
> Rich Alderson
I always thought of the plural "die" as a distinct word which just happened to look like the singular feminine.
>> Then there are the forms of the adjective when preceded by the >> definite article vs. the indefinite article _ein_ (and similar >> forms like _kein_ "none, no") vs. without any article. To make >> this clear, I'll use the adjective _klein_ "little". >> >> Def M F N P >> Nom klein-e klein-e klein-e klein-en
Page 79 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> Gen klein-en klein-en klein-en klein-en >> Dat klein-en klein-en klein-en klein-en >> Acc klein-en klein-e klein-e klein-en >> >> Indef M F N P >> Nom klein-er klein-e klein-es klein-e >> Gen klein-en klein-en klein-en klein-er >> Dat klein-en klein-en klein-en klein-en >> Acc klein-en klein-e klein-es klein-e >> >> Bare M F N P >> Nom klein-er klein-e klein-es klein-e >> Gen klein-en klein-er klein-es klein-er >> Dat klein-em klein-er klein-em klein-en >> Acc klein-en klein-e klein-es klein-e
AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH! The old nightmares return!
> And to top it off, 'ein' gets affected as well, > > eine kleine nachtmusik.
While we're at it, let's not forget the declension of nouns. The poster child is "Herz" (heart), which has an irregular declension:
Singular Plural Nom das Herz die Herzen Gen des Herzens der Herzen Dat dem Herzen den Herzen Acc das Herz die Herzen
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:55:39 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-26, Rich Alderson
> Dialectally, the final -n was *generalized*, so that forms like > _hisn_, _hern_, and _yourn_ occur in speech. (Part of my childhood > in Texas was spent with people who said things like "This one is mine, > and that one is yourn.")
Page 80 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria He who sells what isn't hisn Must buy it back or go to prison.
I was informed by a Texan that "y'all" is singular. The plural is "all y'all".
I once made a support call to Dallas. The lady at the other end said, "We're getting a funny error message, and we wondered if it was from y'all's system."
I'd never heard it used in the possessive before.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:55:40 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-26, Mike Spencer
> I'm not so sure about that, but don't forget that indirect discourse > in German uses the subjunctive or the (now, I suppose, obsolete) > matter of addressing superiors in the third person.
Is that really the third person? I always thought of that form (Sie vs. sie) as a special form of second person.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 00:55:41 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-26, Scott Lurndal
> Charlie Gibbs
Page 81 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > >> On 2021-01-26, Peter Flass
The canonical example is a captain for the Danube Steamship Company:
Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitan
I figured that a cosmic ray research rocket launching area would be:
Weltraumstrahlungforschungsraketenflugplatz
We shouldn't be too smug, though - there is an increasing tendency in English (primarily among marketroids, especially at Virgin Galactic) to run words together - camelCaps are optional, but are a reliable indicator of marketing jargon.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andreas Kohlbach on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 02:56:44 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 12:03:57 -0600, JimP wrote: > > In US high schools we were taught Castilliano Spanish. A closer to > formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what > I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they > couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was > speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain. > > I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use.
Same for English lessons if you intend to visit/move/work in the US. I was taught British English. If you are in the UK before you move to the US all should be fine. Saying things like "Can i bum a fag mate?" are no
Page 82 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria problem. Try that in Louisiana. -- Andreas https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by John Levine on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 04:21:22 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message In article <2084667421.633380598.940468.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, Peter Flass
In Catalonia, claiming not to understand Castillian Spanish is a political statement. In my experience, they understand Spanish just fine when they want to.
> You probably could, if you were in Madrid. Barcelona is in Catalonia, and > Catalan is common, and onsidered a separate language. I always thought US > schools should teach Mexican Spanish.
Well, or Puerto Rican depending where in the US you are.
Here in NY they teach Parisian French even though we can drive to Montreal where they speak a rather different flavor of the language.
R's, John -- Regards, John Levine, [email protected], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 05:33:41 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Charlie Gibbs
Page 83 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > On 2021-01-26, Mike Spencer
Not {sS}ie. "Habet er die Gute...." 3rd person subjunctive, lit. "Would he have the kindness [to]....", addressed to nobility, meaning "Would you have the kindness [to]...." AFAIK, obsolete usage since German titles and nobility ceased to have social significance.
I'm not an authority on German usage, just milk-sieve memory: milk and cream pass through, straws, bits of cow manure and dead flies retained. :-)
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 06:46:40 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Mike Spencer
> And English Quebecois friends who are nevertheless fluent in Quebec > French report being treated with scorn when in Paris.
The French are famous for treating everybody who speaks a dialect of French with scorn. That also applies to Belgians and Swiss French.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 07:03:27 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:03:48 -0500 Andreas Kohlbach
> May be there is no term extending "bilingual" and "trilingual" to the > forth or even more languages spoken by one person?
Page 84 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria The word would be quadrilingual (just as quadrilateral follows triangle), then pentalingual, hexalingual ...
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 08:36:42 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The character `thorn' pronounced 'th' has ony been dropped from English relatively a short time ago. People not aware of that think that there was an english word called `Ye' as in `Ye Inn'.. Old West of Ireland gypsies (travellers) used a dialect close to what Shakespear used.
Many Quakers moved to Ireland and used `thee' and 'thou' which Irish people thought amusing. Perfectly legitimate English words, AFAIK. As nonconformists, they worked in the milling industry
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 09:50:54 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 85 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 27/01/2021 07:03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:03:48 -0500 > Andreas Kohlbach
Interesting that in a computer folklore forum that someone should propose speaking the forth! :-)
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Niklas Karlsson on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 11:32:17 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-27, Andreas Kohlbach
British English is what's taught in school here (or at least it was when I was in school), yet most Swedes speak something closer to American English. Hollywood is probably a major factor here.
I sometimes had Englishmen have problems understanding me because I used what turned out to be Americanisms.
Niklas -- I hereby wish to register the band name "rm -rf /". -- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Niklas Karlsson on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 11:35:06 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-27, J Clarke
Page 86 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > In Florida I have no idea what kind of Spanish they were teaching. > After observing the Spanish teacher attempting to correct the usage of > a person born and raised in Spain who was employed by the Spanish > government, I came to realize that the teacher had no idea either.
I think that may be a common pattern. I recall my English teacher being unfamiliar with the word "flavo(u)r" when I used it. Not exactly what I'd consider an obscure term.
Niklas -- One developer I worked with pronounced SQL as "squirrel" and PL/SQL as "peeled squirrel". This was the guy with several squirrel skulls on the top of his monitor. I inherited those when he was fired for punching someone fairly senior in management. -- John Burnham
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 12:24:56 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Niklas Karlsson
Actors in British TV shows often use accents which make them very hard to understand for foreigners. That seems to be very rare in US shows, which usually use a fairly standardized American English.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by mjb on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:10 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message In article <[email protected]>, Andreas Kohlbach
Page 87 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Two is already "multi", no?
> May be there is no term extending "bilingual" and "trilingual" to the > forth or even more languages spoken by one person?
FORTH is a language in its own right, but probably wouldn't count as a language you speak.
Maybe you're looking for tetralingual? Quadrilingual? ------+------Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Niklas Karlsson on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:05:06 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-27, Mike Spencer
Interesting. Perhaps related to how Swedish, in the old days, used to go through all sorts of contortions to avoid using personal pronouns to superiors at all. "Would the Colonel like another cup of coffee?"
Niklas -- Keeping UUCP running is starting to seem a lot like keeping a 130-year-old man who smokes 4 packs a day on life support because he's the last person on Earth who knows how to do the cha-cha, but he won't tell anyone. -- Ryan Tucker
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:11:23 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 27/01/2021 12:24, Thomas Koenig wrote: > > Actors in British TV shows often use accents which make them very
Page 88 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > hard to understand for foreigners.
When it is wished to portray west country yokels they use the "Mummerset" accent, supposedly based on Somerset, but for a genuine Somerset accent look for the recordings of Adge Cutler And The Wurzels, ie, before Adge was killed in a motor accent.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 16:47:03 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On 26 Jan 2021 18:25:08 -0400, Mike Spencer
I was told a few years ago, by a French Canadian, that Canadian French is seen as 'poor people's French' by the Parisians.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 16:50:29 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 89 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Originally posted by: JimP
On 27 Jan 2021 00:55:38 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
I would just say to the cat, 'Hey, out of there !'.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 16:52:17 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On 27 Jan 2021 00:55:39 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Page 90 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> Dialectally, the final -n was *generalized*, so that forms like >> _hisn_, _hern_, and _yourn_ occur in speech. (Part of my childhood >> in Texas was spent with people who said things like "This one is mine, >> and that one is yourn.") > > He who sells what isn't hisn > Must buy it back or go to prison. > > I was informed by a Texan that "y'all" is singular. > The plural is "all y'all". > > I once made a support call to Dallas. The lady at the > other end said, "We're getting a funny error message, > and we wondered if it was from y'all's system." > > I'd never heard it used in the possessive before.
Apparently different areas of Texas use it differently.
I was taught that y'all is singluar or plural, depending on context.
I never heard of all y'all until about 1995. Never when I lived in Texas.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 16:55:09 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:56:44 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
Page 91 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > US all should be fine. Saying things like "Can i bum a fag mate?" are no > problem. Try that in Louisiana.
Well, they may not speak much English. More likely Cajun French, which is French from around 400 years ago. Or maybe it is Napoleonic French. I have never been certain.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Dan Espen on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 17:14:26 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
> On 27 Jan 2021 00:55:38 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Page 92 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Hmm, I can't see any point to using sentences but the exclamation mark makes sense. If the cat is going to understand you need to use tone of voice. Just yell their name in an angry tone.
Not that I have great experience getting cats to do anything.
Well, my last cat would always come when called. Other than that she'd do whatever she pleased. We thought we had her pretty well trained not to get on the kitchen table but hours before she died she made one last foray onto the table.
-- Dan Espen
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 17:49:59 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Vir Campestris
On 27/01/2021 06:46, Thomas Koenig wrote: > Mike Spencer
But I've only been to Paris once. The rumour I hear is that it's the Parisians, not the whole country.
Andy
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 18:21:44 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-27, Andreas Kohlbach
Page 93 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 12:03:57 -0600, JimP wrote: > >> In US high schools we were taught Castilliano Spanish. A closer to >> formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what >> I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they >> couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was >> speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain. >> >> I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use. > > Same for English lessons if you intend to visit/move/work in the US. I > was taught British English. If you are in the UK before you move to the > US all should be fine. Saying things like "Can i bum a fag mate?" are no > problem. Try that in Louisiana.
"Should I knock you up in the morning?"
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Obligatory thread drift (was Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 18:21:45 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Stealing a .sig...
On 2021-01-27, Niklas Karlsson
> One developer I worked with pronounced SQL as "squirrel" and PL/SQL as > "peeled squirrel". This was the guy with several squirrel skulls on the > top of his monitor. I inherited those when he was fired for punching > someone fairly senior in management. -- John Burnham
I always pronounced SQL as "squeal". SQL*Forms was "squeal splat forms". That sounds suitably violent, although I never had any squirrel skulls on my monitor.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Page 94 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 18:21:46 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-27, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 22:03:48 -0500 > Andreas Kohlbach
This, of course, leads us to the old joke:
Q: What do you call someone who speaks three languages? A: Trilingual
Q: What do you call someone who speaks two languages? A: Bilingual
Q: What do you call someone who speaks one language? A: American
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 18:21:47 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-27, Mike Spencer
> Charlie Gibbs
Page 95 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> that form (Sie vs. sie) as a special form of second person. > > Not {sS}ie. "Habet er die Gute...." 3rd person subjunctive, > lit. "Would he have the kindness [to]....", addressed to nobility, > meaning "Would you have the kindness [to]...." AFAIK, obsolete usage > since German titles and nobility ceased to have social > significance. > > I'm not an authority on German usage, just milk-sieve memory: milk > and cream pass through, straws, bits of cow manure and dead flies > retained. :-)
When it comes to odd bits of knowledge, I consider myself a pack rat.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 18:41:02 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Vir Campestris
When I was there, I didn't notice any scorn, even with the handful of poorly pronounce words and phrases I knew. But I don't fit the ugly american stereotype :-)
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)
Page 96 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Posted by scott on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 18:42:23 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Mike Spencer
Habet -> Habt, nicht wahr?
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:00:39 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:56:44 -0500 Andreas Kohlbach
> Saying things like "Can i bum a fag mate?" are no problem. Try that in > Louisiana.
How about "I'm going out to smoke a fag" ?
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:45:51 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Charlie Gibbs
Page 97 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > "Should I knock you up in the morning?"
There's a story of a foreign student in Göttingen in the 1920's who knocked on his landlord's door and, when the daughter opened, asked: "Haben Sie eine Wiege? Ich möchte etwas wagen." (Do you have a cradle? I want to dare something) instead of "Haben Sie eine Waage? Ich möchte etwas wägen." (Do you have a scale? I want to weigh something).
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:46:35 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Andy Walker
On 27/01/2021 07:03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > The word would be quadrilingual (just as quadrilateral follows > triangle), then pentalingual, hexalingual ...
Can't argue with the linguals, but the follower of "triangle" is "quadrangle" and the predecessor of "quadrilateral" is "trilateral". Admittedly, "quadrilateral" and "triangle" are the more usual terms, for no reason that I know of and apart from school quads and trilateral agreements.
-- Andy Walker, Nottingham. Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Schulz-Evler
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 20:41:37 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:46:35 +0000 Andy Walker
> Can't argue with the linguals, but the follower of "triangle" > is "quadrangle" and the predecessor of "quadrilateral" is "trilateral".
You are of course entirely correct.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
Page 98 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 20:55:46 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 12:14:26 -0500, Dan Espen
> JimP
Page 99 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > makes sense. > If the cat is going to understand you need to use tone of voice. > Just yell their name in an angry tone. > > Not that I have great experience getting cats to do anything. > > Well, my last cat would always come when called.
Tigger the Obnoxious Tomcat would always come when called, but one had to use his secret name, which was the sound of a electric can opener.
> Other than that she'd do whatever she pleased. > We thought we had her pretty well trained not to get on the kitchen > table but hours before she died she made one last foray onto the table.
Good for her. Unless getting on the table was what led to her death.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 21:00:01 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 27 Jan 2021 18:21:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> On 2021-01-27, Andreas Kohlbach
One place I worked, "blow a fag" resulted in a certain amount of amusement--most of the male staff was openly gay and everybody who
Page 100 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria worked there smoked.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by usenet on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 00:13:51 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:33:00 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote: > John Levine
Which is why it all went to hell when they stopped teaching Latin in school. (Although I never really understand the ablative case.)
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by usenet on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 00:13:59 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 27 Jan 2021 18:21:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Page 101 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>> I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use. >> >> Same for English lessons if you intend to visit/move/work in the US. I >> was taught British English. If you are in the UK before you move to the >> US all should be fine. Saying things like "Can i bum a fag mate?" are no >> problem. Try that in Louisiana. > > "Should I knock you up in the morning?"
"She criticized my apartment, so I knocked her flat."
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Dan Espen on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:13:14 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message J. Clarke
> On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 12:14:26 -0500, Dan Espen
Page 102 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> of prepositions he had been saving up to end sentences with. >>>> >>>> This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put. >>>> -- Winston Churchill >>> >>> I would just say to the cat, 'Hey, out of there !'. >> >> Hmm, I can't see any point to using sentences but the exclamation mark >> makes sense. >> If the cat is going to understand you need to use tone of voice. >> Just yell their name in an angry tone. >> >> Not that I have great experience getting cats to do anything. >> >> Well, my last cat would always come when called. > > Tigger the Obnoxious Tomcat would always come when called, but one had > to use his secret name, which was the sound of a electric can opener.
Yeah, that's too easy. Our Angel just had to hear her name. https://www.fvwm.org/Community/Cats/angel_resting.jpg
>> Other than that she'd do whatever she pleased. >> We thought we had her pretty well trained not to get on the kitchen >> table but hours before she died she made one last foray onto the table. > > Good for her. Unless getting on the table was what led to her death.
Nope, her age caught up with her.
-- Dan Espen
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Rich Alderson on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:34:01 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Charlie Gibbs
> While we're at it, let's not forget the declension of nouns. > The poster child is "Herz" (heart), which has an irregular declension:
> Singular Plural > Nom das Herz die Herzen > Gen des Herzens der Herzen
Page 103 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Dat dem Herzen den Herzen > Acc das Herz die Herzen
There's nothing irregular about it--it's a perfectly regular n-stem noun.
There just aren't very many of them. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
-- Rich Alderson [email protected] Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur, omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus. --Galen
Subject: Re: Obligatory thread drift (was Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)) Posted by Rich Alderson on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:46:03 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Charlie Gibbs
> Stealing a .sig...
> On 2021-01-27, Niklas Karlsson
>> One developer I worked with pronounced SQL as "squirrel" and PL/SQL as >> "peeled squirrel". This was the guy with several squirrel skulls on the >> top of his monitor. I inherited those when he was fired for punching >> someone fairly senior in management. -- John Burnham
> I always pronounced SQL as "squeal". SQL*Forms was "squeal splat forms". > That sounds suitably violent, although I never had any squirrel skulls > on my monitor.
My younger nephew pronounced "squirrel" as "squeal" until he was nearing his teenage years, but it wasn't a one-off: He also pronounced "girl" as "gweel".
-- Rich Alderson [email protected] Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur, omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus. --Galen
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Rich Alderson on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:58:25 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 104 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria [email protected] (Questor) writes:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:33:00 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote: >> John Levine
>>>> >> And German is much harder to learn than English, if you are from Spain, >>>> >> France, Italy or any other country with its own proper language.
>>>> > Really? English is a very irregular language, while Deutsch is quite >>>> > regular (with the odd exception here and there) and rather logical.
>>> The spelling is delightful but the genders and cases more than make up >>> for it. Men and boys are masculine, women are feminine, but girls are >>> neuter.
>> Grammatical case (Nominative, Accusative, Genetive, Dative, etc) is also >> difficult for the typically american english speaker.
> Which is why it all went to hell when they stopped teaching Latin in school. > (Although I never really understand the ablative case.)
It gets a lot easier after you do multiple semesters of Sanskrit in grad school, since you learn to differentiate the ablative and instrumental, there is a locative separate from the dative, and there are very very few "irregular" forms--which shouldn't be surprising since it's a standardized version of the natural language in which Vedic literature was composed. (The name even says so, since it means "perfected".)
-- Rich Alderson [email protected] Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur, omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus. --Galen
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 02:21:40 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> Mike Spencer
Page 105 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> Charlie Gibbs
No, I think it's 2nd person plural subjunctive, used in this archaic context either with singular pronoun "er" (the specific line I remember reading somewhere) or with plural pronoun "ihr". Unsure about capitalization of the pronoun in either case.
Pushing both my limited knowledge and my very modest library [1] to or beyond their respective limits.
[1] Which, FWIW, does include A German Grammar for Schools & Colleges based on the Public School Grammar of A. E. Meissner, M.A., Ph.D., D.Lit. by Edward S. Joynes, M.A., D.C. Heath & Co., Copyright 1887, 1898, 1904.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Obligatory thread drift (was Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)) Posted by Niklas Karlsson on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 09:10:46 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-27, Charlie Gibbs
Page 106 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> someone fairly senior in management. -- John Burnham > > I always pronounced SQL as "squeal". SQL*Forms was "squeal splat forms". > That sounds suitably violent, although I never had any squirrel skulls > on my monitor.
You're actually in my .sig collection as well, on that very subject:
Another of my pet peeves is the use of random special characters in names, e.g. SQL*Forms. I pronounce that one "squeal splat forms" - sort of sounds like roadkill, doesn't it? -- Charlie Gibbs
Niklas -- For my birthday I got a humidifier and a de-humidifier...I put them in the same room and let them fight it out. -- Steven Wright
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Niklas Karlsson on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 09:12:24 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-27, JimP
I hear from non-Parisian Frenchmen that it's mostly Parisians who match the "snotty Frenchman" stereotype.
Niklas -- Caution: When copying and pasting text, work with only a few lines at a time. If you copy too many lines, you may trigger a bug in the system, and your window will become unstable. Pg. 129, "A Practical Guide to the Unix System"
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Niklas Karlsson on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 09:17:51 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-27, Andreas Kohlbach
Page 107 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > > "Möchten Sie [Colonel]..." (formal) > > and > > "Möchtest Du [friend]..." (informal).
Some years back, I had a German friend visit me in Stockholm. He needed some cash, so he went to an ATM at the train station and of course picked the German language option. He was rather taken aback when the machine used "Du" and "dein". I assume the translation was done by a Swede used to using "du" for everyone.
Niklas -- Programmers will tell you to read this guy named "Dijkstra" on this subject. I recommend you avoid his writings on this unless you enjoy being yelled at by someone who stopped programming at the same time programming started. -- Zed A. Shaw
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 15:48:45 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: drb
> Man to cat under his chair: "Come on up out from down in under there."
I lately lost a preposition; It hid, I thought, beneath my chair And angrily I cried, "Perdition! Up from out of under there."
Correctness is my vade mecum, And straggling phrases I abhor, And yet I wondered, "What should he come Up from out of under for?"
-- Morris Bishop
Subject: Re: Obligatory thread drift (was Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 16:04:12 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: drb
Page 108 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Another of my pet peeves is the use of random special characters in names, > e.g. SQL*Forms. I pronounce that one "squeal splat forms" - sort of sounds > like roadkill, doesn't it? > -- Charlie Gibbs
I've always figured skunks were named for the sounds that occur as they're hit by a car. SSssspray, *kunk*. :)
De
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 16:10:18 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: drb
> Saying things like "Can i bum a fag mate?" are no problem. Try that > in Louisiana.
One of my wife's coworkers, a brit expat pediatric nurse in the US, went to fetch a "torch" to inspect a child's sore throat. Alarmed looks!
De
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Niklas Karlsson on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 16:19:28 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-28, Dennis Boone
As I alluded to earlier, I'm a Swede inundated with Americanisms, so I was quite confused when I was confronted with "torch" as a term for a modern lighting device as well. Seems a bit primitive to use a torch for that, no?
Niklas -- } >A manual has, at least, some basis in fact, } Erm, excuse me?
Page 109 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Usually, the name of the program matches the manual's title page. -- DPM, Patrick R. Wade and Rik Steenwinkel in asr
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 17:39:44 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 05:39:07 GMT, Andreas Kohlbach
> On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:10 +0000 (GMT), Mike wrote: >> >> In article <[email protected]>, >> Andreas Kohlbach
1 + =
-- Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:05 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 00:34:33 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
Page 110 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> >> On 2021-01-27, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Portuges ?
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:30:28 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On 28 Jan 2021 09:12:24 GMT, Niklas Karlsson
Page 111 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > > Niklas
Gracias. ( no humor intended. )
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Obligatory thread drift (was Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:47:42 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-28, Niklas Karlsson
> On 2021-01-27, Charlie Gibbs
I am honoured.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: just in case, Too much for one lifetime? :-)
Page 112 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Posted by John Levine on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:57:22 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message In article <[email protected]>, Questor
I did pretty well in my two years of Latin and I still find German cases daunting. They're sort of the same except where they're completely different.
-- Regards, John Levine, [email protected], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 19:37:51 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 28 Jan 2021 16:19:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson
> On 2021-01-28, Dennis Boone
My gut reaction would, if I did not already know that particular Britishism, be "OMG, what they say about the NHS is _true_".
Page 113 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:13:34 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Dennis Boone
Usually it’s true. I know that in Germany there are various local dialects that locals use among themselves, but I think everyone can understand and speak Hochdeutsch. I don’t know about Spain, but I assume Castilian is the dialect used in schools.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:13:35 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Scott Lurndal
Donaudampfschiffgesellschaftsaufsichtsratsvorsteher (not the canonically example, but I think it’s still a legitimate word)
-- Pete
Page 114 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:13:37 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message J. Clarke
I would think Cuban Spanish in Florida.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:13:39 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message John Levine
Page 115 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>> formal Spanish, I have been told. I know that when I tried to use what >>> I remembered when my ship pulling into Barcelona, I was told they >>> couldn't understand me. Then someone pointed out, in English, I was >>> speaking a version of Spanish common in one province of Spain. > > In Catalonia, claiming not to understand Castillian Spanish is a > political statement. In my experience, they understand Spanish just > fine when they want to. > >> You probably could, if you were in Madrid. Barcelona is in Catalonia, and >> Catalan is common, and onsidered a separate language. I always thought US >> schools should teach Mexican Spanish. > > Well, or Puerto Rican depending where in the US you are.
Like New York.
> > Here in NY they teach Parisian French even though we can drive to > Montreal where they speak a rather different flavor of the language. > > R's, > John
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:13:39 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message gareth evans
If it’s like the German shows I’ve seen it’s more like a sprinkling of dialecticisms than a full-blown version. The idea is to convey that someone
Page 116 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria is a rustic (or whatever) without making it too difficult to understand. A lot of US books used to be written in dialect, for humor or whatever, but this is now too hard for people to understand.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:13:40 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
I have heard, though, that it’s closer to seventeenth-century French. Likewise some people in Appalachia speak a dialect that’s close to Shakespeare’s English.
-- Pete
Page 117 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:13:41 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
I heard that in Georgia, used the same way.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:31:33 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 28 Jan 2021 16:19:28 GMT Niklas Karlsson
> As I alluded to earlier, I'm a Swede inundated with Americanisms, so I
Page 118 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > was quite confused when I was confronted with "torch" as a term for a > modern lighting device as well. Seems a bit primitive to use a torch for > that, no?
If she's Canadian she might object (I once worked for a company that promised Canadian's "A Torch on Every Desk" on billboards that would no doubt, rightly, be denounced as sexist today - the printers sniggered but did not explain).
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Rich Alderson on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:52:22 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Peter Flass
> JimP
Page 119 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> > > I have heard, though, that it’s closer to seventeenth-century French. > Likewise some people in Appalachia speak a dialect that’s close to > Shakespeare’s English.
Both are urban legends, like the "Eskimo words for snow" trope.
-- Rich Alderson [email protected] Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur, omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus. --Galen
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 21:16:10 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 13:13:37 -0700, Peter Flass
> J. Clarke
Page 120 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> After observing the Spanish teacher attempting to correct the usage of >> a person born and raised in Spain who was employed by the Spanish >> government, I came to realize that the teacher had no idea either. >> > > I would think Cuban Spanish in Florida.
I could have actually found that out--we had a Cuban kid (as in actually was born in Cuba and left when he was 14) who I could have tried out on her. But at the time I didn't know that there were different flavors of Spanish.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 21:20:15 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Questor
Is ablative “by means of?” I had several years of Latin, now mostly gone. I always think I want to go back and refresh, but I never seem to get a round tuit.
Page 121 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria -- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 21:20:16 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Niklas Karlsson
Wasn’t the ATM his friend?
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 21:20:16 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Dennis Boone
I must have watched too much Downton Abbey or something. This stuff seems perfectly normal to me.
Page 122 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria -- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 28 Jan 2021 22:15:35 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 21:20:16 GMT, Peter Flass
> Dennis Boone
A torch (UKE) is a *non-*flashing light. HTH.
-- Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andy Leighton on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 10:05:51 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 13:13:39 -0700, Peter Flass
Page 123 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> genuine Somerset accent look for the recordings of Adge Cutler >> And The Wurzels, ie, before Adge was killed in a motor accent. >> > > If it’s like the German shows I’ve seen it’s more like a sprinkling of > dialecticisms than a full-blown version.
Sometimes - but too many (or too obscure) dialect words will throw even native speakers.
More often you get a generalised rural accent, or a generalised Yorkshire accent etc. But sometimes the drama (or even non-drama) has the actors use an appropriate accent.
The Netflix film _The Dig_ based around the excavation of Sutton Hoo is pretty good with accents and they have got the Suffolk accent pretty good. They haven't gone overboard with the dialect words but have got the rhythm of delivery with gaps right. But it also uses phrases like "He say time has lost his meaning" which has two deviations from standard English. This is pretty notable because rural East Anglian accents tend to be treated as generic rural which turns out more like a bad West Country accent.
-- Andy Leighton => [email protected] "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Douglas Adams
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 11:14:52 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 28/01/2021 21:20, Peter Flass wrote: > > Is ablative “by means of?” I had several years of Latin, now mostly gone. I > always think I want to go back and refresh, but I never seem to get a round > tuit. > eg, the exclamation, "by Jove!" is actually, " by by Jove" because, "Jove" is already in the ablative!
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 11:16:54 GMT
Page 124 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 28/01/2021 22:15, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote: > On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 21:20:16 GMT, Peter Flass
I give up, so what is the innuendo with, "Torch" in the US and Canada?
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 12:18:28 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 11:16:54 +0000 gareth evans
> I give up, so what is the innuendo with, "Torch" in the US and Canada?
AIUI in some parts of Canada, when applied to young ladies, torch has similar connotations to tart in the UK. I have also come across torchy being used for a level of drunkenness somewhere between tipsy and rat-arsed.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Page 125 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 16:21:43 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: drb
> I give up, so what is the innuendo with, "Torch" in the US and Canada?
For the nurse story: in the USA, one would generally say "flashlight", and a "torch" is a stick with one end on fire.
Others have suggested actual innuendo.
De
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:04:05 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Dennis Boone
What would you call one of the things on top of cameras (or in mobile phones) which gives of a very short burst of light to make a photograph?
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:08:45 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 11:16:54 +0000 > gareth evans
Page 126 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria I haven't heard those ones here on the Wet Coast. Must be some other part...
I've heard of "torch songs" or "carrying a torch for", though.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:14:50 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-29, Thomas Koenig
> Dennis Boone
Flash (or strobe if it's a separate unit)
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:15:15 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Thomas Koenig
Page 127 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > > What would you call one of the things on top of cameras (or in > mobile phones) which gives of a very short burst of light to > make a photograph?
Flash, or in the olden days, flashbulb.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 18:58:52 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Thomas Koenig
Used to be “flashbulb” back when the things used bulbs. “Flash” now?
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:38:46 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:04:05 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Page 128 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria A flash attachment. Some had a brand name, like Cube. Had 4 flash bulbs, small ones, that rotated as the camera user took pictures. The film was 12 or 20 pictures.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:45:15 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Andy Leighton
> More often you get a generalised rural accent, or a generalised Yorkshire > accent etc. But sometimes the drama (or even non-drama) has the actors > use an appropriate accent. > > The Netflix film _The Dig_ based around the excavation of Sutton Hoo > is pretty good with accents and they have got the Suffolk accent pretty > good. They haven't gone overboard with the dialect words but have got the > rhythm of delivery with gaps right. But it also uses phrases like "He say > time has lost his meaning" which has two deviations from standard English. > This is pretty notable because rural East Anglian accents tend to be treated > as generic rural which turns out more like a bad West Country accent.
On my only visit to England, I was riding on a bus with other conference attendees and was trying to eavesdrop on a conversation in the seat behind me. One of the more eccentric guys among us [1] was recounting a yarn in one regional English dialect (not his own). What struck me was that his rendition was (to my ear anyhow) indistinguishable from the dialect/accent of elderly rural New Hampshire residents in the late 1950s-early 60s and, to some degree, into the 90s,
[1] All blacksmiths, which may shift the value of "more eccentric" significantly as being a blacksmith in 1980 was pretty eccentric in itself.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)
Page 129 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 21:02:12 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:04:05 -0000 (UTC) Thomas Koenig
> Dennis Boone
On modern cameras LED flash, on old expensive ones flashgun, on old cheap ones flash cube.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anssi Saari on Fri, 29 Jan 2021 21:19:04 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Charlie Gibbs
> I was informed by a Texan that "y'all" is singular. > The plural is "all y'all".
I actually learned that from the Userfriendly web comic. Not that I've ever used "all y'all" in a spoken sentence.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Rich Alderson on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 00:55:11 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Andreas Kohlbach
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 13:13:34 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Dennis Boone
Page 130 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> I have no idea why we weren't taught something we could use.
>>> There seems to be a common belief that teaching something more formal >>> (Castilian Spanish, "Modern Standard" [more Quranic, we were told] >>> Arabic) makes it more likely that you'll be able to communicate with >>> whomever you encounter.
>>> "More likely" is of course statistical, and even then may or may not be >>> correct.
>> Usually it's true. I know that in Germany there are various local dialects >> that locals use among themselves, but I think everyone can understand and >> speak Hochdeutsch.
> In my limited experience, when I moved from northern Germany, where we > spoke Hochdeutsch, people in the south (Baden-Würtemberg or Bavaria) can > understand Hochdeutsch. But have a problem to speak it themselves.
> Not to forget, written German is usually written in Hochdeutsch. So every > kid at school can read and understand it, even if not be able to speak it.
Historically, "Hochdeutsch" is the range of dialects spoken in the (southern) mountains, while "Plattdeutsch" is the range of dialects in the (northern) lowlands. This was the meaning used by Jacob Grimm when he posited the famous Grimm's Law (die ersten und zwitten Lautverschiebungen) explaining the relationship between the Germanic languages and Latin/Greek/Sanskrit.
I understand that people now refer to the standard based on Luther's translation of the Bible as "Hochdeutsch", even though there are a number of Plattdeutsch imports (the name for "Tuesday", for example, starts with a "Z" in Hochdeutsch-the-historical-meaning), but it stills rings false to my linguist ear.
-- Rich Alderson [email protected] Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur, omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus. --Galen
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andreas Eder on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 08:39:09 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Di 26 Jan 2021 at 22:38, Andreas Kohlbach
> I suppose written German German and Austrian German is the same. yesm mostly. But the use of words can be quite different and hard to
Page 131 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria understand for some people e.g. january is Januar in german where in Austria people often use Jänner.
> People from northern Germany might have problems > understanding Swiss people. But they already have problems understanding > people from Bavaria, which is in Germany.
It is sometimes even difficult for people from Bavaria. But then Bavarians can have problems understanding peopl from Friesia.
'Andreas
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 09:56:12 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:51:43 GMT, Andreas Kohlbach
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 17:39:44 -0000 (UTC), Kerr-Mudd,John wrote: >> >> 1 + = > > Polish notation? ;-)
Did I get it wrong? RPN I was trying for.
-- Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andreas Eder on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 15:40:58 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Mo 25 Jan 2021 at 22:12, Andreas Kohlbach
> Novice speakers would most likely say "Das Auto gehört der Mann", because > "der" is a masculine article. Correct is "Das Auto gehört dem Mann". But > if you use woman (Frau) instead of a man you get "Das Auto gehört der > Frau". Again, "der" is masculine, but it is correct! Because this is the > third case (accusative)
Third case is correct, but it is called Dativ. Akkusativ is the fourth case!
Page 132 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria 'Andreas
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andreas Eder on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 15:48:07 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Mi 27 Jan 2021 at 00:55, Charlie Gibbs
> The canonical example is a captain for the Danube Steamship Company: > > Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitan
Now suppose dais captain is deceased and hos widow has a powder box with a broken mirror. THen one piece of that mirror would be a
Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänswitwenpuderdosens pielgelsplitterstück.
'Andreas
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andreas Eder on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 15:59:28 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Mo 25 Jan 2021 at 19:33, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> Granted, gender is a problem for english speakers learning Deutsch, but not for > most other latin languages where gender (and more importantly case) > are significant.
Yes, but hender can be different in different languages! In german the sun - die Sonne - is feminine, the moon - der Mond - is masculine; in french it is le soleil (masculine) and la lune (feminine).
'Andreas
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:04:05 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-30, Andreas Eder
Page 133 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > >> Novice speakers would most likely say "Das Auto gehört der Mann", because >> "der" is a masculine article. Correct is "Das Auto gehört dem Mann". But >> if you use woman (Frau) instead of a man you get "Das Auto gehört der >> Frau". Again, "der" is masculine, but it is correct! Because this is the >> third case (accusative)
"Das Auto gehort der Mann", back to self-drive car subject?
"Das Auto gehort der Mann", back to self-drive car subject?
"Das Auto gehort der Police", more likely
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:22:38 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:59:28 +0100 Andreas Eder
> In german the sun - die Sonne - is feminine, the moon - der Mond - is > masculine; in french it is le soleil (masculine) and la lune (feminine).
... and kids today think that being transgender is something new.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:26:17 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:48:07 +0100
Page 134 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Andreas Eder
> Now suppose dais captain is deceased and hos widow has a powder box with > a broken mirror. THen one piece of that mirror would be a > > Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänswitwenpuderdosens pielgelsplitterstück
Somebody needs to introduce these people to the concept of white space.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 20:06:58 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:48:07 +0100 > Andreas Eder
I nominate Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter- crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burste in- von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grande r-knotty- spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-h imbleeisen- bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspu rten- mitzweimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönendanker-kalbsfl eisch- mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the marketroids. -- not quite Shakespeare
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Page 135 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make." / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 20:38:52 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On 30 Jan 2021 20:06:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
I was just going to post 'of Ulm' but your post is better.
That particular skit like to drove me to sleep.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 22:46:29 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 136 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Andreas Eder
:-)
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 22:46:30 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Andreas Eder
A phony explanation for this is that in southern lands the sun is powerful, and hence masculine, while in northern lands it is weak, and hence feminine.
-- Pete
Page 137 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 23:09:28 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 15:46:30 -0700, Peter Flass
> Andreas Eder
I just checked and the word for "sun" in Arabic is feminine. I tried the same for the other extreme but the various Eskimo-Aleut languages seem to not have noun gender.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sun, 31 Jan 2021 00:09:43 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:09:41 -0600 Dave Garland
> On 1/29/2021 3:02 PM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On modern cameras LED flash, on old expensive ones flashgun, > > Or strobe, for one with a gas-discharge tube. (Strobe would also apply
To me a strobe is the flashing light used in discos, not something I associate with cameras at all.
Page 138 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Sun, 31 Jan 2021 05:35:19 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-01-31, Dave Garland
> On 1/30/2021 6:09 PM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >> On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:09:41 -0600 >> Dave Garland
I've only heard the term "speedlight" used by Nikon. Perhaps they're trying to establish a proprietary term.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)
Page 139 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 31 Jan 2021 06:37:19 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 31 Jan 2021 05:35:19 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> On 2021-01-31, Dave Garland
Strobe works fine. Google "strobist" and you'll find a community dedicated to the use of such equipment as off-camera flash. However Canon uses "speedlight" on their Web site.
However studio flash isn't all that expensive. A Canon 600EX is about 500 bucks. A Paul C. Buff Einstein goes for about the same. Of course you can get fancier and more expensive but there are few studio situations a set of Einsteins won't handle.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:32:42 GMT
Page 140 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: [email protected]
On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 20:22:06 UTC, gareth evans wrote: > This year is 50 years since I first cut my teeth on > assembler programming on a 16kb PDP11-20, but I can
I started my first paid programming job on a PDP11/40 in 1973.
> Are there any other technologies that have had comparable > periods of accelerated development?
Steam locomotives came on a long way between about 1830-1880, and of course there has been one fantastically rapid development in my lifetime, "We choose to go to the moon." Radar ans code breaking during WW2 also did very well.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 31 Jan 2021 15:58:28 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 31/01/2021 13:32, [email protected] wrote: > On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 20:22:06 UTC, gareth evans wrote: >> This year is 50 years since I first cut my teeth on >> assembler programming on a 16kb PDP11-20, but I can > > I started my first paid programming job on a PDP11/40 in 1973. > >> Are there any other technologies that have had comparable >> periods of accelerated development? > > Steam locomotives came on a long way between about 1830-1880, and of course there has been one fantastically rapid development in my lifetime, "We choose to go to the moon." Radar ans code breaking during WW2 also did very well. >
The cost of that PDP11-20 was about 10 times my graduate starting salary, but the new Pico from the Raspberry Pi stable exceeds its computing power and memory storage and only costs a few tuppences!
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 31 Jan 2021 21:27:50 GMT
Page 141 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: PeterP
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 15:58:28 +0000 gareth evans
> On 31/01/2021 13:32, [email protected] wrote: >> On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 20:22:06 UTC, gareth evans wrote: >>> This year is 50 years since I first cut my teeth on >>> assembler programming on a 16kb PDP11-20, but I can >> >> I started my first paid programming job on a PDP11/40 in 1973. >> >>> Are there any other technologies that have had comparable >>> periods of accelerated development? >> >> Steam locomotives came on a long way between about 1830-1880, and >> of course there has been one fantastically rapid development in my >> lifetime, "We choose to go to the moon." Radar ans code breaking >> during WW2 also did very well. > > The cost of that PDP11-20 was about 10 times my > graduate starting salary, but the new Pico from > the Raspberry Pi stable exceeds its computing power > and memory storage and only costs a few tuppences! >
FFS sake give it a rest, you tedious repetitive troll.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 31 Jan 2021 22:11:25 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 31/01/2021 21:27, PeterP wrote: > On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 15:58:28 +0000 > gareth evans
Page 142 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> Are there any other technologies that have had comparable >>>> periods of accelerated development? >>> >>> Steam locomotives came on a long way between about 1830-1880, and >>> of course there has been one fantastically rapid development in my >>> lifetime, "We choose to go to the moon." Radar ans code breaking >>> during WW2 also did very well. >> >> The cost of that PDP11-20 was about 10 times my >> graduate starting salary, but the new Pico from >> the Raspberry Pi stable exceeds its computing power >> and memory storage and only costs a few tuppences! >> > > FFS sake give it a rest, you tedious repetitive troll. >
I don't know who you are, but your interjection is childish when you have the option to KF me should you consider me to be a troll.
Grow up, Sonny!
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 31 Jan 2021 22:50:56 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: PeterP
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 22:11:25 +0000 gareth evans
> On 31/01/2021 21:27, PeterP wrote:
>> FFS sake give it a rest, you tedious repetitive troll. >> > > I don't know who you are, but your interjection is childish when > you have the option to KF me should you consider me to be a troll.
Yes, of course.
Page 143 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Grow up, Sonny! >
You first, cloudy.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Sun, 31 Jan 2021 23:32:56 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message "[email protected]"
> On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 20:22:06 UTC, gareth evans wrote: > >> Are there any other technologies that have had comparable >> periods of accelerated development?
The first guns -- 2 of them -- were imported to Japan in the 1540s. A couple of decades later, gunsmithing was a major industry with thousands being produced. At the battle of Nagashino in 1575, hundreds of arquebusiers under Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Hideyoshi pretty much ended classical Japanese warfare by wiping out the whole Takeda army. (There's a great Kurosawa movie about it: Kagemusha.)
AFAIK, there was little of no improvement or innovation in gun design but by Nagashino there were far more guns deployed in Japan than in Elizabeth's England so the craft/industry ramped up at phenomenal speed.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 09:54:43 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: maus
On 2021-01-31, Andreas Kohlbach
Page 144 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>>> "der" is a masculine article. Correct is "Das Auto gehört dem Mann". But >>>> if you use woman (Frau) instead of a man you get "Das Auto gehört der >>>> Frau". Again, "der" is masculine, but it is correct! Because this is the >>>> third case (accusative)
(In Ireland, the former official police force, (R.I.C) were allowed to retire when the new state was organized. but many were brought back immediatly, mostly former (D.M.P) Dublin Police, and so on.) > > And apropos Polizei. Italian (and that I find interesting) Euro dance at > Mo-Do did a song in 1994 called "Eins, zwei Polizei". If you (in North > America) wonder what Euro trash pop you missed in the 1990s, there is a > good point to start. :-D > > https://www.youtube.com/watc)h?v=pnphuffsCiY
Page 145 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 14:08:54 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 31/01/2021 22:50, PeterP wrote: > On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 22:11:25 +0000 > gareth evans
You now present as an obsessive stalker and thus a candidate for the loony bin.
Grow up, Sonny!
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 14:15:52 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 01/02/2021 02:35, Andreas Kohlbach wrote: > On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 16:06:35 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
Page 146 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> Remembering a joke: >> "Genitiv ins Wasser!" >> "Warum, ist es Dativ?" >> Play with words only works in German. > I should had translated it. Genitive and dative has no "e" at the end, > but as English often swallows vowels at the end of a word, they sound > pretty much the same. > And "tiv" is also pronounced like "tief" in German, which means > "deep". So > "Genitiv ins Wasser!" > could be written as "Geh nie tief in Wasser", which translates to "Never > go deep into the water. > "Warum, ist es Dativ?" > That could be written as "Warum, ist es da tief?", which translates "Why, > is it deep there?".
I have inherited my mother's German text books from the 1930s decade, and not only as obscure as the above, but printed with a stylised typeface with many strange characters!
But it is enough for me to have done French and Latin at school (Nailsea Grammar 1962-1969), some Japanese 22 years ago whilst subcontracting at NEC, and now deeply imbrangled in a Welsh course having recently inherited my father's library of Welsh books. :-)
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 15:24:41 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On 31 Jan 2021 19:32:56 -0400, Mike Spencer
Page 147 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Takeda army. (There's a great Kurosawa movie about it: Kagemusha.) > > AFAIK, there was little of no improvement or innovation in gun design > but by Nagashino there were far more guns deployed in Japan than in > Elizabeth's England so the craft/industry ramped up at phenomenal > speed.
There is a movie excerpt on youtube that shows this battle/action. All in Japanese, I don't remember any sub-titles. But it is obvious what is going on. Commands, then you see the arquibusers loading, command, then they aim, etc.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 16:54:21 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig gareth evans
Probably "Fraktur".
It is actually a little bit better for writing German than the
Page 148 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Antiqua letters we are now using. For example, the difference between Wachs-tube (a wax tube) and Wach-stube (guardroom) becomes apparent because there are two different letters for s which make the difference apparent.
It was actually Hitler who decided to discontinue use of Fraktur, because he thought it made world domination easier (or something like that, sources differ).
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 17:49:16 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: PeterP
On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 14:08:54 +0000 gareth evans
> On 31/01/2021 22:50, PeterP wrote: >> On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 22:11:25 +0000 >> gareth evans
Page 149 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > You now present as an obsessive stalker and thus a candidate > for the loony bin.
Deflecting. nym-shifting troll.
> Grow up, Sonny! >
You first, Foggy!
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 18:41:39 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 01/02/2021 17:49, PeterP wrote: > On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 14:08:54 +0000 > gareth evans
You've appeared out-of-the-blue with no history of posting to this NG and intent on a personal attack on me, to the extent that one questions your presence at all.
Page 150 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Whether or not you think me to be a troll, it is you who has hit a KF - mine.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 18:45:39 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Mike Spencer
Japanese craftsmen used to be famous for making identical copies of such items. Now, of course, they make better things.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 19:01:23 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: PeterP
On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 18:41:39 +0000 gareth evans
Page 151 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > On 01/02/2021 17:49, PeterP wrote: >> On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 14:08:54 +0000 >> gareth evans
Deflecting nym-shifting troll.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 21:34:07 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Vir Campestris
On 31/01/2021 13:32, [email protected] wrote:
Page 152 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 20:22:06 UTC, gareth evans wrote: >> This year is 50 years since I first cut my teeth on >> assembler programming on a 16kb PDP11-20, but I can > > I started my first paid programming job on a PDP11/40 in 1973. > >> Are there any other technologies that have had comparable >> periods of accelerated development? > > Steam locomotives came on a long way between about 1830-1880, and of course there has been one fantastically rapid development in my lifetime, "We choose to go to the moon." Radar ans code breaking during WW2 also did very well. > My grandfather was a mechanic in the RFC in WW1. He remembered hearing about the Wright brothers.
Before he died he flew on Concorde, and we had men on the moon.
Where did it all go wrong?
Andy
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Mon, 01 Feb 2021 23:19:56 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 21:34:07 +0000, Vir Campestris
> On 31/01/2021 13:32, [email protected] wrote: >> On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 20:22:06 UTC, gareth evans wrote: >>> This year is 50 years since I first cut my teeth on >>> assembler programming on a 16kb PDP11-20, but I can >> >> I started my first paid programming job on a PDP11/40 in 1973. >> >>> Are there any other technologies that have had comparable >>> periods of accelerated development? >> >> Steam locomotives came on a long way between about 1830-1880, and of course there has been one fantastically rapid development in my lifetime, "We choose to go to the moon." Radar ans code breaking during WW2 also did very well. >> > My grandfather was a mechanic in the RFC in WW1. He remembered hearing > about the Wright brothers.
Page 153 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > > Before he died he flew on Concorde, and we had men on the moon. > > Where did it all go wrong?
With regard to the Moon, Nixon era. NASA decided that they _must_ have a manned space program at any cost, so they rushed into the Space Shuttle without actually doing their homework. They should have built the X-20 and flown it to get some experience with winged RVs, and worked out how to build a reusable booster, and then put the two together, and that would have led to much, much cheaper access to orbit, which should have been their first priority. But instead it took another 50 years before somebody actually started working on that problem in earnest, and it looks like it might not have been nearly as hard as they thought it was.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 02 Feb 2021 01:02:18 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Rink
Op 23-1-2021 om 1:49 schreef Peter Flass: > maus
Page 154 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >
English is one of the official languages of Malta. Malta has two official languages: Maltese and English.
According to wikipedia 99% of the Irish people speaks English and 41% speaks Irish. Both languages have official status.
So, no problem. Without the UK there are still at least two countries with English as one of the official languages. BTW both countries have the Euro as money....
Rink
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Tue, 02 Feb 2021 04:26:36 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-02-01, Andreas Kohlbach
> On 1 Feb 2021 09:54:43 GMT, maus wrote: > >> On 2021-01-31, Andreas Kohlbach
Oh, let's. In French it's GRC (Gendarmerie royal du Canada). Police cars are marked RCMP-GRC.
After a shootout with a local gangster whose name was (IIRC) Rocko Cervo, it was suggested that RCMP-GRC stood
Page 155 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria for "Rocko Cervo Meets Police - Goodbye Rocko Cervo".
Time to knock off - it's now 04:25 UTC (Co-ordinated Universal Time).
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Tue, 02 Feb 2021 04:26:36 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-02-01, J Clarke
> With regard to the Moon, Nixon era. NASA decided that they _must_ > have a manned space program at any cost, so they rushed into the Space > Shuttle without actually doing their homework. They should have built > the X-20 and flown it to get some experience with winged RVs, and > worked out how to build a reusable booster, and then put the two > together, and that would have led to much, much cheaper access to > orbit, which should have been their first priority. But instead it > took another 50 years before somebody actually started working on that > problem in earnest, and it looks like it might not have been nearly as > hard as they thought it was.
It's just like any other system design dilemma. If you're working under severe real-time constraints, efficiency must go out the window.
"There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over."
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 02 Feb 2021 06:13:51 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 2 Feb 2021 04:26:36 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Page 156 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria wrote:
> On 2021-02-01, J Clarke
In 1971 what was this "severe real-time constraint"? Apollo had a time constraint "by the end of this decade". The Shuttle didn't. They could take as long as they needed.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Tue, 02 Feb 2021 06:50:50 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Tue, 02 Feb 2021 01:13:51 -0500 J. Clarke
> In 1971 what was this "severe real-time constraint"? Apollo had a > time constraint "by the end of this decade". The Shuttle didn't. They > could take as long as they needed.
They had the same essential time constraint that Apollo did, get it done before the Soviets make us look silly.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)
Page 157 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Posted by Andy Leighton on Tue, 02 Feb 2021 10:38:16 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 02:02:18 +0100, Rink
41% speaks Irish sounds high to me for actually "speaks".
https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/how-much-irish-spoken-i n-ireland shows some figures (which are obviously self-reported). The list in the section "How often is Irish spoken in Ireland" is the key one. Only 185276 people said they spoke Irish weekly (or more regularly). As to how well the others speak is a different matter - some may be fluent whilst others may have basic Irish, some may only have just a few words.
-- Andy Leighton => [email protected] "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Douglas Adams
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Tue, 02 Feb 2021 11:20:24 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Tue, 02 Feb 2021 04:38:16 -0600 Andy Leighton
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 02:02:18 +0100, > Rink
Yeah make that "can speak" and it seems reasonable.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Page 158 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 02 Feb 2021 15:21:17 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 21:34:07 +0000, Vir Campestris
People pretending the money went into outer space, when it was actually planetary jobs.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 24 Feb 2021 06:04:05 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Daniel
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:21:57 +0000 > gareth evans
Page 159 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > >> This year is 50 years since I first cut my teeth on >> assembler programming on a 16kb PDP11-20, but I can >> today purchase microprocessors with an equal or better >> capability for only a few £££ or $$$. >> >> Are there any other technologies that have had comparable >> periods of accelerated development? > > Flight! The Wright brothers got Kittyhawk off the ground in 1903, > by 1953 we were seeing the first jet airliners (the 707 was only a year > later) and we were only four years short of the first satellite launch.
My wife and I were talking about a similar thing the other day. How, when WWII started, aviation was already nearly forty years old, in terms of technological development.
-- Daniel Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Robin Vowels on Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:32:55 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 7:22:06 AM UTC+11, gareth evans wrote: > This year is 50 years since I first cut my teeth on > assembler programming on a 16kb PDP11-20, but I can > today purchase microprocessors with an equal or better > capability for only a few £££ or $$$. > > Are there any other technologies that have had comparable > periods of accelerated development? .. Aeroplanes? Medicine
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Wed, 24 Feb 2021 16:27:23 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Daniel
Page 160 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> gareth evans
It moves slowly when you’re going thru it, but looking back you realize how short a time it’s been. Hopefully fusion power by 2035.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:33:22 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-02-24, Peter Flass
> It moves slowly when you’re going thru it, but looking back you realize > how short a time it’s been. Hopefully fusion power by 2035.
Don't hold your breath. Fusion has been 10 years away for the last 50 years.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:51:12 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 161 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Originally posted by: JimP
On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 09:27:23 -0700, Peter Flass
I remember 3 tv stations back in the 1950s. And one only came in fairly well at night. One local radio station. Two small supermarkets, a one screen movie theater. Next town over had 2 movie theaters. One was a smaller, fewer statues, etc., movie palace. All three of those movie theaters have been closed for years and 2 are falling apart. All of the drive-in movie theaters are gone.
If I sent a letter home from my ship in the Mediterranean Sea, it could take a month. Now they have live conferencing and email.
I remember my grandmother and I going outside when Sputnik went overhead. Now there are thousands of satellites. Cell phones were considered to be science fiction back then. Now billions of people have them.
-- Jim
Page 162 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Mike Spencer on Wed, 24 Feb 2021 21:23:37 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
> I remember 3 tv stations back in the 1950s. And one only came in > fairly well at night. One local radio station. Two small supermarkets, > a one screen movie theater. Next town over had 2 movie theaters. One > was a smaller, fewer statues, etc., movie palace. All three of those > movie theaters have been closed for years and 2 are falling apart. All > of the drive-in movie theaters are gone.
http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/temp/tracy.jpg
Note the Happy New Year inscription from the artist in the corner.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 24 Feb 2021 21:45:04 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On 24 Feb 2021 17:23:37 -0400, Mike Spencer
Page 163 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Interesting. I read that comic strip when I was a kid. That is the one that predicted wrist phones. The movie palace above had some stars show up to promote their movies. Roy Rogers and Trigger being two back in the 1940s.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 25 Feb 2021 00:23:08 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 24 Feb 2021 17:33:22 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> On 2021-02-24, Peter Flass
That depends on who you talk to. If you're talking to people who have actually built a fusion reactor that produces theoretical breakeven they're saying some time in the 2080-2100 timeframe for a working power plant. If you're talking to Lockheed or other beltway bandits who have never actually built any kind of fusion reactor the "ten years away" is more common.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Thu, 25 Feb 2021 05:03:42 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-02-24, JimP
> If I sent a letter home from my ship in the Mediterranean Sea, it > could take a month. Now they have live conferencing and email.
And Nigerian scams, and phishing, and web pages full of advertising...
> I remember my grandmother and I going outside when Sputnik went > overhead. Now there are thousands of satellites. Cell phones were
Page 164 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > considered to be science fiction back then. Now billions of people > have them.
And they're so busy looking at them that they don't even see all those satellites whizzing overhead on a clear night. Stars? What are stars?
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 25 Feb 2021 15:59:48 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On 25 Feb 2021 05:03:42 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Light pollution blocks lots of stars from being seen.
Saw a report on a big city a few years ago, I think it was NYC, when they had a massive power failure. People living there were astounded at the stars.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)
Page 165 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:52:00 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:59:48 -0600 JimP
> Saw a report on a big city a few years ago, I think it was NYC, when > they had a massive power failure. People living there were astounded > at the stars.
Hmm Nightfall.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:38:21 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 16:52:00 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:59:48 -0600 JimP
Oh yes. That is excellent.
-- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-)
Page 166 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Posted by Mike Spencer on Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:44:57 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
> On 25 Feb 2021 05:03:42 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
When I moved here in '69, I arrived at my new home well after dark on a chilly April night. On the road since 8:00 AM, Horace -- a friend, long time city resident, along as a switch-off driver -- and I clambered out of the pickup cab to stretch. His first and memorable words on my new Nova Scotia homestead? "Look at all the stars, Spencer! Look at all the fuckin' stars!!"
But even here, in a rather darkish spot as seen on images of global light pollution, our nearest neighbor has, a couple of decades ago, opted for an always-on sodium vapor street light in his dooryard. Ho hum.
-- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 01:28:41 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message J. Clarke
Page 167 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > actually built a fusion reactor that produces theoretical breakeven > they're saying some time in the 2080-2100 timeframe for a working > power plant. If you're talking to Lockheed or other beltway bandits > who have never actually built any kind of fusion reactor the "ten > years away" is more common. >
I’m following Commonwealth Fusion, who seem to have a plan. There’s another similar startup, I think on the west coast. We’ll have to see. I hope i’m around long enough.
One thing I expect to be true, based on everything that’s come before, is that there will prove to be some kind of unexpected serious problems once fusion is actually in operation.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 01:28:42 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
Page 168 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria I remember when I was a kid (seems to be a day for memories) I’d come back from the drive-in about midnight and so many stars were visible I really hot a sense for the immensity of the universe. When I moved to Phoenix a few years ago I expected to be awed, having heard stories about stars in the desert sky. I’m in the extreme south of the city, cut off from downtown by a mountain and about three blocks from empty desert, but the light pollutions is so bad only five or six of the brightest stars are visible. I’m disappointed.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Peter Flass on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 01:29:05 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Charlie Gibbs
I was so excited by Sputnik. Mom, Dad, and I went out unto the front yard and watched it all the way across the sky. i think it was sputnik that blinked, but it may have been some other satellite - opposite hemispheres were black and silver, so it blinked as it rotated.
-- Pete
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 05:05:56 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 169 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 18:28:41 -0700, Peter Flass
> J. Clarke
I wish them well, but they're very likely to discover the same thing that the ITER team already knows--you gotta go big. > > One thing I expect to be true, based on everything that’s come before, is > that there will prove to be some kind of unexpected serious problems once > fusion is actually in operation.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charlie Gibbs on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 05:19:41 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-02-26, Andreas Kohlbach
> On 25 Feb 2021 19:44:57 -0400, Mike Spencer wrote: > >> But even here, in a rather darkish spot as seen on images of global >> light pollution, our nearest neighbor has, a couple of decades ago, >> opted for an always-on sodium vapor street light in his dooryard. >> Ho hum.
Page 170 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > > They're nasty. Before switching to LED there was a streetlight in front > of my windows. They don't just die when broken. They go on and off, and > on and off... First couple of nights I was too lazy to close the > curtains. Could barely sleep. Took a few days after I emailed the city to > have it replaced.
It was only a few years ago that high-power LED fixtures were showing a similar failure mode. I haven't seen that for a couple of years though - LED fixtures of all sorts seem to still be improving.
The problem I'm seeing more and more is mis-aimed fixtures. I'm about to write the city about a couple of private parking lots where LED fixtures are sending out intense beams horizontally, blinding passersby. Mind you, given the state of many modern automobile headlights - glorified in their ads - it seems that it is now acceptable to blind anyone in the vicinity.
-- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ /
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:56:53 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 26/02/2021 01:29, Peter Flass wrote: > Charlie Gibbs
Page 171 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > > I was so excited by Sputnik. Mom, Dad, and I went out unto the front yard > and watched it all the way across the sky. i think it was sputnik that > blinked, but it may have been some other satellite - opposite hemispheres > were black and silver, so it blinked as it rotated. >
I was 6 years old at that time, but I distinctly remember people in the road looking up at was probably an aeroplane glinting in the rays from the setting sun and discussing whether or not it was the Sputnink.
One side effect of the launch of the Sputnik was that the world of make-believe in the shape of the Christian and Jewish tradition was completely debunked when the Sputnik did not hit a Blue Firmament on the way up.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:59:57 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
> On 2021-02-26, Andreas Kohlbach
"on and off, and on and off"?
Proof, if any were needed, that Binary somewhere plays a part in their operation? :-)
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:52:57 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: JimP
On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 18:28:42 -0700, Peter Flass
Page 172 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >> On 25 Feb 2021 05:03:42 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> from the drive-in about midnight and so many stars were visible I really > hot a sense for the immensity of the universe. When I moved to Phoenix a > few years ago I expected to be awed, having heard stories about stars in
> by a mountain and about three blocks from empty desert, but the light > pollutions is so bad only five or six of the brightest stars are visible.
Same in Texas. We would be driving back to the house from a drive-in theater and see lots of stars. Last time I was back over there, high pressure sodium lights lined the highway. Of course, the drive-ins are all gone to.
-- Jim
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anne & Lynn Wheel on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 20:53:14 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message JimP
Page 173 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > pressure sodium lights lined the highway. Of course, the drive-ins are > all gone to. in early 80s, I started HSDT project, t1 and faster speed links ... was also working with NSF director and was suppose to get $20M to interconnecct the NSF supercomputer centers (congress then cuts the budget, some other things happen, and eventually NSF puts out RFP in part based on what we already had running). NSF had also given $60M to UC for a Berkeley supercomputer center ... but the regents master plan had UCSD getting the next bldg ... so it went there instead (UCSD supercomputer center operations subcontracted to general atomics).
Something of side effect, got involved in the Berkeley 10m telescope project, they were doing some testing at Lick observatory (east of san jose) ... including playing with CCDs as part of converting astronomy from film to electronics (and be able to do remote observing from ground level and back on the mainland). They only had 200x200 pel CCD (40k) for testing but there were rumors that Spielberg had 2Kx2K (4mpel) CCDs (migrating movie industry from film to CCD).
At the time San Jose was going to convert from mercury to sodium street lights and Lick was fighting over high-pressure sodium verses low-pressure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_vapor_lamp#Light_pollut ion_considerations
Eventually the project got a grant from Keck Foundation and it becomes the Keck Observatory https://www.keckobservatory.org/ the initial sizing of mainland remote viewing was it needed at least 800kbits/sec.
NSF RFP trivia drift: internal politics prevent us from bidding, the NSF director tries to help by writting the company a letter, copying the CEO (with support from other gov. agencies) ... but that just made the internal politics worse (as did comments that what we already had running was at least 5yrs ahead of all RFP responses). old post with copy of 28Mar1986 preliminary release. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#12
-- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Quadibloc on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 22:22:24 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 12:06:28 PM UTC-7, Peter Flass wrote:
Page 174 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > I don’t think Switzerland is an EU country, but there are differences > among Swiss, Austrian, and German German. How do they handle spelling > differences? It’s like US, Canadian, and UK spelling. Everyone likes to see > things the way they’re used to, even if it’s as minor as “color” vs > “colour”.
Despite German coming far closer to spelling things as they are pronounced than English, only a few years ago, they decided it was necessary to change how German was spelled.
Except for continuing to eschew the eszet, the Swiss (and, for that matter, the Austrians) agreed to participate in the spelling reform along with Germany. So apparently German spelling is largely uniform across the German-speaking countries, even if it is at variance with the spelling of the great bulk of literature written in the German language.
Which is, of course, one major reason why the English-speaking world has so far resisted calls for the reform of its spelling, however flawed it may be.
John Savard
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 22:40:31 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Quadibloc
That is true, but the changes were small - so small that I thought it was not really worth it to go to all the trouble of a reform for so litte.
Page 175 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria A _big_ reform would have changed the spelling of "Physik" (physics) to "Füsik". However, it is likely that physicis would have thrown bricks through the windows of their germanist colleagues at university, so they didn't change that.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Fri, 26 Feb 2021 23:28:24 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:22:24 -0800 (PST) Quadibloc
> Which is, of course, one major reason why the English-speaking > world has so far resisted calls for the reform of its spelling, > however flawed it may be.
Merriam-Webster was a pretty severe reform of English spelling.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Niklas Karlsson on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 10:43:03 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2021-02-26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Otherwise you mostly see it in niche applications, like the NATO phonetic alphabet. It has "Alfa" for A, which I think had something to do with certain NATO languages having difficulties with "ph" being pronounced as "f".
Alfa is also the NATO designation for a rather interesting class of Soviet submarine.
Page 176 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria Niklas -- I sat around during the design phase going "this is going to suck so badly that we're going to have to hold onto desks to stop us from being drawn into the vortex". -- Saundo in ASR
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 10:51:32 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 27/02/2021 01:53, Andreas Kohlbach wrote: > On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:59:57 +0000, gareth evans wrote: >> >>> On 2021-02-26, Andreas Kohlbach
She was the radio operator's daughter, but she only didit because her Dada didit?
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 11:19:57 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 10:51:32 +0000 gareth evans
> She was the radio operator's daughter, but she only didit
Page 177 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > because her Dada didit?
That's a mangled variant of "She was only the telegrapher's daughter but she didit ah didit ah dah".
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:59:52 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Vir Campestris
On 27/02/2021 15:22, Andreas Kohlbach wrote: > On 27 Feb 2021 10:43:03 GMT, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
The clever bit about the NATO alphabet is that it doesn't matter.
I'm still not sure if it's Lima or lemur :)
Andy
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Andreas Kohlbach on Mon, 01 Mar 2021 03:50:52 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:59:52 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote: > > On 27/02/2021 15:22, Andreas Kohlbach wrote: >> On 27 Feb 2021 10:43:03 GMT, Niklas Karlsson wrote: >
Page 178 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria >>> Alfa is also the NATO designation for a rather interesting class of >>> Soviet submarine. >> We used Zulu-, Alpha- (with "ph") and Bravo- time in the West-German army. > > The clever bit about the NATO alphabet is that it doesn't matter.
Back then we were only told. Nothing to read up on. So I couldn't tell whether it is "Alpha" or "Alfa". Had to read it up yesterday that it's indeed "Alpha". Anyway, only Zulu, Alpha and Bravo concerned us, although we had to learn the others too. But too long ago that I forgot. Was it
Zulu - Alpha - Bravo - Charlie - Dick - Erection - F**k - Genital ... ?
> I'm still not sure if it's Lima or lemur :)
May be "lamer"? ;-) -- Andreas
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charles Richmond on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:12:07 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On 2/1/2021 10:26 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
[... quoted material omitted ...] > > "There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over." >
I had this posted to my cubicle wall, right next to the sign that said:
"Computer programmer: mistakkkes made while you wait...."
--
Charles Richmond
-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Charles Richmond on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:27:35 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message
Page 179 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria On 2/24/2021 12:51 PM, JimP wrote: > On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 09:27:23 -0700, Peter Flass >
There was (is) a stand-up comedian who does routines about the way things used to be:
Page 180 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria "When I was a teenager, we did *not* have caller id... you just answered the phone and took your chances!!!"
"We did *not* have message machines or voice mail... if you were *not* home and someone called... you just *missed* it!"
"In the past, we had *no* GPS or navigation units. If you were going on a trip, you stopped at a gas station ("service station") and got a big, confusing folded paper thing called a "road map"!
--
Charles Richmond
-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by scott on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:34:54 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Charles Richmond
>> > > There was (is) a stand-up comedian who does routines about the way > things used to be: > > "When I was a teenager, we did *not* have caller id... you just > answered the phone and took your chances!!!"
Although if you go back far enough, the operator would have rung your line and announced the caller.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by D.J. on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:32:08 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:34:54 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
Page 181 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > Charles Richmond
One of my nephews, when he was 20 years old, asked me what kind of cell phone I had when I was a kid ?
After my sister and I stopped laughing, around 5 minutes later, we pointed out that such devices are new.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:54:47 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:34:54 GMT [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> Although if you go back far enough, the operator would have > rung your line and announced the caller.
Then listened in for a bit to see if there was any juicy gossip^W^W^W^W^Wyou needed any more assistance.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:48:05 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Michael Trew
On 9/29/2021 1:27 PM, Charles Richmond wrote: >
Page 182 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria > There was (is) a stand-up comedian who does routines about the way > things used to be: > > "When I was a teenager, we did *not* have caller id... you just answered > the phone and took your chances!!!" > > "We did *not* have message machines or voice mail... if you were *not* > home and someone called... you just *missed* it!" > > "In the past, we had *no* GPS or navigation units. If you were going on > a trip, you stopped at a gas station ("service station") and got a big, > confusing folded paper thing called a "road map"!
I'm still stuck in the land line caller ID loop.. I prefer my POTS line, but I won't pay AT&T $13/mo (before tax) for caller ID. I answer and "take my chance".. lol! The digital answering machine is nice, however.
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:50:04 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message Originally posted by: Michael Trew
On 9/29/2021 2:32 PM, D.J. wrote: > On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:34:54 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) > wrote: >> Charles Richmond
Really? How old is he now? Some kids must have been sheltered.
Page 183 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria I'm 26, and I recall when my parents first got cell phones, at least 18 years ago. I eventually got one as well, but growing up, I always used the home phone (and still prefer my home phone).
Subject: Re: Too much for one lifetime? :-) Posted by D.J. on Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:10:32 GMT View Forum Message <> Reply to Message On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 01:50:04 -0400, Michael Trew
Still in his early 20s.
Page 184 of 184 ---- Generated from Megalextoria