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Parliamentary Debates House of Commons Official Report General Committees PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Public Bill Committee IMMIGRATION AND SOCIAL SECURITY CO-ORDINATION (EU WITHDRAWAL) BILL First Sitting Tuesday 12 February 2019 (Morning) CONTENTS Programme motion agreed to. Written evidence (Reporting to the House) motion agreed to. Motion to sit in private agreed to. Examination of witnesses. Adjourned till this day at Two o’clock. PBC (Bill 309) 2017 - 2019 No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the final version of the report should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Saturday 16 February 2019 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2019 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1 Public Bill Committee12 FEBRUARY 2019 Immigration and Social Security 2 Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chairs: †SIR DAVID AMESS,GRAHAM STRINGER Badenoch, Mrs Kemi (Saffron Walden) (Con) † McGovern, Alison (Wirral South) (Lab) † Blomfield, Paul (Sheffield Central) (Lab) † Maynard, Paul (Lord Commissioner of Her † Brereton, Jack (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Con) Majesty’s Treasury) † Caulfield, Maria (Lewes) (Con) † Newlands, Gavin (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) † Crouch, Tracey (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con) (SNP) † Dakin, Nic (Scunthorpe) (Lab) † Nokes, Caroline (Minister for Immigration) † Davies, Glyn (Montgomeryshire) (Con) † Sharma, Alok (Minister for Employment) Duguid, David (Banff and Buchan) (Con) † Smith, Eleanor (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab) Green, Kate (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab) † Thomas-Symonds, Nick (Torfaen) (Lab) † Khan, Afzal (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab) † Maclean, Rachel (Redditch) (Con) Joanna Dodd, Michael Everett, Committee Clerks † McDonald, Stuart C. (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP) † attended the Committee Witnesses Professor Bernard Ryan, Professor of Migration Law, University of Leicester Professor Alan Manning, Chair, Migration Advisory Committee Lord Green of Deddington, Chair, Migration Watch Dr Benedict Greening, Head of Research, Migration Watch Chai Patel, Legal Policy Director, Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants 3 Public Bill CommitteeHOUSE OF COMMONS Immigration and Social Security 4 Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill Public Bill Committee TABLE Date Time Witness Tuesday 12 February Until no later than Liberty; Justice Tuesday 12 February 2019 4.00 pm Tuesday 12 February Until no later than CBI 4.30 pm (Morning) Tuesday 12 February Until no later than Focus on Labour 5.00 pm Exploitation Thursday 14 February Until no later than Detention Action; [SIR DAVID AMESS in the Chair] 12.30 pm The Children‘s Society; Immigration and Social Security Immigration Law Practitioners’ Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill Association; Deloitte LLP; 9.25 am Amnesty International UK The Chair: Before we begin, I have a few preliminary Thursday 14 February Until no later than Hilary Brown, announcements. As usual, please switch off your mobile 1.00 pm Director, Virgo phones—I have done so. Tea and coffee are not allowed, Consultancy and we have been told to be strict about that—I am a Services; Martin tea-oholic myself, but I am afraid it is just water. Hoare, Senior Partner, H & S Today we will consider the programme motion on the Legal Solicitors amendment paper. We will then consider a motion to Thursday 14 February Until no later than National Farmers enable the reporting of written evidence for publication, 2.30 pm Union and then a motion to allow us to deliberate in private Scotland about our questions before the oral evidence session. In Thursday 14 February Until no later than Professor Steven view of the time available, I hope that we can take these 3.00 pm Peers, Professor of matters formally, without debate. EU, Human I call the Minister to move the programme motion, Rights and World Trade Law, which was discussed yesterday by the Programming University of Sub-Committee for the Bill. Essex Ordered, Thursday 14 February Until no later than Professor Stijn That— 3.30 pm Smismans, Director of the (1) the Committee shall (in addition to its first meeting at Cardiff Centre for 9.25 am on Tuesday 12 February) meet— European Law and (a) at 2.00 pm on Tuesday 12 February; Governance; The 3 (b) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 14 February; Million (c) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 26 February; Thursday 14 February Until no later than Institute for 4.30 pm Government (d) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 28 February; Thursday 14 February Until no later than Britain in Europe (e) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 5 March; 5.00 pm (f) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 7 March; (2) the Committee shall hear oral evidence in accordance with (3) proceedings on consideration of the Bill in Committee shall the following Table: be taken in the following order: Clause 1; Schedule 1; Clauses 2 to 5; Schedules 2 and 3; Clauses 6 and 7; new Clauses; new TABLE Schedules; remaining proceedings on the Bill; Date Time Witness (4) the proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at 5.00 pm on Thursday 7 March.— Tuesday 12 February Until no later than Professor Bernard (Caroline Nokes.) 10.30 am Ryan, Professor of Migration Law, University of The Chair: That means that the deadline for amendments Leicester; to be considered at the Committee’s first sitting for Professor Alan line-by-line consideration will be the rise of the House Manning, Chair on Thursday 21 February. Migration Advisory Resolved, Committee That, subject to the discretion of the Chair, any written evidence Tuesday 12 February Until no later than Migration Watch received by the Committee shall be reported to the House for 11.00 am UK publication.—(Caroline Nokes.) Tuesday 12 February Until no later than Joint Council for 11.25 am the Welfare of The Chair: Copies of written evidence that the Committee Immigrants receives will be made available in the Committee Room. Tuesday 12 February Until no later than Universities UK; Resolved, 3.00 pm TUC; Royal College of That, at this and any subsequent meeting at which oral evidence Nursing; is to be heard, the Committee shall sit in private until the witnesses are admitted.—(Caroline Nokes.) 5 Public Bill Committee12 FEBRUARY 2019 Immigration and Social Security 6 Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill 9.27 am course we have to look at, there is clearly a question The Committee deliberated in private. about the people who are here now.If we get a withdrawal agreement, there will be implementing legislation for that, but there is no clear plan to have implementing Examination of Witnesses legislation or equivalent legislation in the absence of an Professor Bernard Ryan and Professor Alan Manning agreement. That would leave the people who are already gave evidence. here exercising rights without legislative protection. 9.30 am Q3 Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con): Professor Ryan, may I ask you about clause 2, which relates to Irish The Chair: Welcome, everyone. I want our two witnesses citizens? Obviously, the rights of Irish citizens and the to enjoy the session. I do not know whether you have common travel area were outlined in the Immigration appeared before parliamentarians before, but you are Act 1971. What does the Bill do to that? Does it add to not on trial. You both look innocent as far as I am it? Is clause 2 necessary? concerned. It is really just a question of Committee Professor Ryan: I welcome clause 2. Some of us have members getting information from your good selves, been arguing for a long time, particularly since the which will help them when they deliberate the Bill. referendum in 2016, that there is not full provision for We will now hear evidence from Professor Bernard Irish citizens in immigration law. There is, in a somewhat Ryan, of the University of Leicester, and Professor obscure manner, recognition of Irish citizens coming Alan Manning, who chairs the Migration Advisory from other parts of the common travel area—that, in Committee. I remind all Members that questions should practice, means coming from the Republic—but, of be limited to matters within the scope of the Bill, and course, that does not give protection or recognition to that we must stick to the timings in the programme the position of Irish citizens who might simply enter the motion that the Committee has agreed—I hope that United Kingdom from elsewhere, or indeed who are colleagues have the timings in front of them. They are born in the United Kingdom. That is the gap in legislative either half an hour or an hour. terms. Of course, the policy in practice is not to require The scope of the Bill is quite narrow. It is not a of Irish citizens leave to enter or remain. That has wide-ranging immigration Bill. It would end free movement always been the position, but it has never been clearly of European economic area and Swiss nationals in the expressed in legislation. Clearly, this is the time to do it. United Kingdom, and questions should be focused on the effects of that, rather than on wider immigration Q4 Maria Caulfield: Am I understanding you correctly? matters. I ask that witnesses also try to keep their You feel that clause 2 is necessary to add to the existing comments focused on the scope of the Bill. We have rights. until half-past 10 for this witness panel. Professor Ryan: In terms of legislation, Irish citizens Do any members of the Committee wish to declare are protected only when they enter the United Kingdom any relevant interests in connection with the Bill? from elsewhere in the common travel area; they are not exempt from immigration law when they enter the United Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): In relation Kingdom from the rest of the world.
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