Video On.) 2 VIDEO OPERATOR: We're Now Recording 3 and on the Record
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1 1 (Video on.) 2 VIDEO OPERATOR: We're now recording 3 and on the record. My name is Wayne Martin. I'm 4 a certified legal video specialist for National 5 Video Reporters, Inc. Our business address is 58 6 Batterymarch Street, Suite 143, Boston, 7 Massachusetts, 02110. We are here in association 8 with Hennessey Corporation, doing business as 9 Robert H. Lange Company of 50 Congress Street, 10 Boston, Massachusetts, 02109. 11 Today is May 8, 2002 and the time is 12 9:17 a.m. This is the deposition of Cardinal 13 Bernard Law in the matter of Francis Leary, 14 Plaintiffs, versus Father John Geoghan, 15 Defendants in Suffolk Superior Court, Civil 16 Action No. 99-0371. The deposition is being 17 taken at the Suffolk Superior Courthouse in Post 18 Office Square at Boston, Massachusetts, on behalf 19 of the plaintiffs. The court reporter is Loretta 20 Hennessey of Hennessey Corporation. At this time 21 counsel will state their appearances and the 22 court reporter will administer the oath. 23 MR. GORDON: I am Attorney William H. 24 Gordon and I represent Plaintiff Francis Leary 2 1 and 85 other plaintiffs who have brought claims 2 against Father John J. Geoghan, and his 3 supervisors at the Boston Archdiocese at 4 different times. My office address is 100 State 5 Street, 6th floor, Boston, Massachusetts, at the 6 Law Offices of Mitchell Garabedian. With me 7 today is also Attorney Mitchell Garabedian 8 representing the same plaintiffs. We do not, the 9 only plaintiffs we do not represent are Messrs. 10 Hardigan, Ezdra and Pagliuca. 11 MR. GARABEDIAN: Good morning. 12 MR. TODD: My name is J. Owen Todd. I 13 appear for the Cardinal, Cardinal Law personally. 14 MR. ROGERS: My name is Wilson D. 15 Rogers, Jr. I appear for His Eminence Cardinal 16 Law personally and for all of the remaining 17 defendants excepting only Thomas Duane and John 18 Geoghan, and I'm with The Rogers Law Firm at One 19 Union Street, Boston. 20 MR. ROGERS, III: Wilson Rogers, the 21 Third on behalf of all of the defendants 22 excepting Thomas Duane and John Geoghan. 23 MR. MARK ROGERS: Mark Rogers on 24 behalf of all defendants except for Thomas Duane 3 1 and John Geoghan. 2 MR. O'CONNELL: Tim O'Connell 3 representing Mr. Pagliuca. 4 MS. JACKSON: Susan Jackson for Thomas 5 Duane. 6 MR. O'DONNELL: Michael O'Donnell for 7 Joseph Ezdra and Michael Hardigan. My address is 8 165 Washington Street in Quincy. 9 MR. MURPHY: Tom Murphy on behalf of 10 Thomas Duane. 11 MS. TANNENBAUM: Shauna Tannenbaum for 12 the Law Offices of Mitchell Garabedian. We 13 represent the 86 plaintiffs. 14 MR. GARABEDIAN: With me today I have 15 a victim who is also a plaintiff. His name is 16 Mark Keane. 17 MR. KEANE: Good morning. 18 BERNARD F. LAW, Sworn 19 a witness called on behalf of the Plaintiffs, 20 having been duly sworn, was examined and 21 testified as follows: 22 MR. GORDON: The parties will enter a 23 stipulation that all objections except objections 24 as to form are reserved until time of trial. 4 1 Further, all motions to strike are reserved until 2 time of trial. The plaintiffs will agree that 3 the deponent may sign under pains and penalties 4 of perjury without having to have his signature 5 notarized. 6 And let me state, I know there's going 7 to be an objection that is going to be made 8 generally for First Amendment. Let me state an 9 objection for the record, I'm not sure it will 10 create a problem, but it may. As I understand it 11 from counsel who have identified themselves, 12 there are now two counsel at the table both 13 personally representing Cardinal Law, and I guess 14 I'm a little confused as to who will be making 15 objections on behalf of Cardinal Law because it's 16 not normal to have two lawyers able to do that at 17 a deposition. 18 MR. ROGERS: Well, first of all, let 19 me take the first issue, the First Amendment. I 20 suggest that we agree that I can have a 21 continuing objection as to the First Amendment. 22 I have raised the First Amendment as a defense 23 and feel the inquiry into the internal workings 24 of the Church is inappropriate. I think it would 5 1 be a more orderly deposition if we go forward 2 with just an agreement on the record that that 3 objection is reserved and is considered made as 4 to all of the testimony and it will be raised in 5 an appropriate forum. I just think it would make 6 for a more orderly inquiry. 7 As to the Cardinal, Mr. Todd and 8 myself are co-counsel. I was going to suggest 9 that we take the position that an objection by 10 any lawyer on behalf of a defendant runs to all 11 defendants to avoid the situation where one 12 attorney makes it, then everybody else wakes up 13 and say oh, yes, me, too, and then we have all 14 these people yelling out "objection." I just 15 suggest that anybody makes an objection, it runs 16 to all defendants. Now, that obviates your 17 concern, but I don't, I just think it will all 18 make for a more orderly progression. 19 MR. GORDON: Let's see how it plays 20 out. I think you may be right. Let's see how it 21 plays out. It's my understanding now that there 22 is a standing objection on First Amendment 23 grounds to the questions at the deposition. 24 MR. ROGERS: Yes. 6 1 MR. GORDON: And our position has been 2 clear before. We think there has been an attempt 3 to over, to make an overbroad interpretation of 4 the First Amendment, we don't think it applies to 5 the scope you do and this is an issue we continue 6 to disagree on and the Court has generally more 7 often than not. 8 MR. ROGERS, III: But we can agree 9 it's a standing objection. 10 MR. GORDON: Yes. 11 DIRECT EXAMINATION 12 BY MR. GORDON: 13 Q. Would you state your name for the record? 14 A. Yes. My name is Bernard Francis Law. 15 Q. And what's your date of birth? 16 A. November 4, 1931. 17 Q. And where do you reside? 18 A. I reside in Brighton, Massachusetts, 2101 19 Commonwealth Avenue. 20 Q. And is that the Archdiocese Cardinal's residence? 21 A. And office, that's right. I live over the store. 22 Q. Are you, you're a citizen of the United States; 23 is that correct? 24 A. I am. 7 1 Q. Are you a citizen also of the Vatican State? 2 A. You know, I am. But may I qualify that? I am 3 because I inquired of that this week since the 4 question was raised, and I had never considered 5 it before. The answer that I have is that I am. 6 But I must say that it hasn't been something that 7 I've been conscious of in the past 17 years. 8 Q. It was something that we had heard raised this 9 week. It didn't come from us, but it is now 10 something that we have some interest in knowing. 11 You're not a citizen of any other 12 country that you know of? 13 A. No. I was born in Mexico, and by a change in our 14 own law I believe now I would have the ability of 15 dual citizenship in terms of both countries, but 16 I, as a matter of fact, do not have that. 17 Q. As I understand it now, you could have 18 citizenship in Mexico, but you -- 19 A. As well as the United States. 20 Q. Yes? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Do you know if you have any ambassadorial 23 standing with the Vatican? 24 A. No, I do not. I have represented the Holy See as 8 1 a legate for a conference, but that was not 2 ambassadorial standing. 3 Q. Do you have a summer address? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Okay. And your primary residence, then, is the 6 Comm. Ave. address? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. And you don't have a winter address, winter home? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Okay. You graduated high school when? 11 A. 1949. 12 Q. And where did you graduate high school? 13 A. Charlotte Amalie High School in St. Thomas, 14 Virgin Island. 15 Q. Oh how is that high school name spelled? 16 A. C-H-A-R-L-O-T-T-E, and then capital A-M-A-L-I-E, 17 High School. 18 Q. And did you go to college right after graduation 19 from high school? 20 A. I did. 21 Q. And where did you go to college? 22 A. I went to Harvard. 23 Q. And how many years did you stay at Harvard? 24 A. Four years. 9 1 Q. And did you get a baccalaureate degree? 2 A. I did, 1953. 3 Q. And what was your degree in? 4 A. History. 5 Q. Did you graduate with honors? 6 A.