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Settlement Covers 1/2/06 6:04 pm Page 1 A New Settlement for London Minutes of Evidence Volume 2 Settlement Covers 1/2/06 6:04 pm Page i A New Settlement for London Minutes of Evidence Volume 2 February 2006 Settlement Covers 1/2/06 6:04 pm Page ii copyright Greater London Authority February 2006 Published by Greater London Authority City Hall The Queen’s Walk London SE1 2AA www.london.gov.uk enquiries 020 7983 4100 minicom 020 7983 4458 ISBN for complete set of 3 volumes: 1 85261 821 3 ISBN for this volume: 1 85261 823 X This publication is printed on recycled paper Commission on London Governance Evidentiary Hearings Date List of Witnesses 8 Feb 2005 Tony Travers - Director Greater London Group, London School of Economics 15 Feb 2005 Local Empowerment Simon Jenkins - Evening Standard columnist Paul Wheeler - Director of the Political Skills Forum and formerly of IDEA Anna Randle - Head of Policy, The New Local Government Network Ian Parker, Head of Communications, The New Local Government Network 1 March 2005 Mayor Ken Livingstone 15 March 2005 Housing Neil Litherland, Director of Housing, London Borough of Camden Chris Buss, Director of Housing, Wandsworth Borough Council Berwyn Kinsey, Head of London Housing Federation Donald Hoodless, Group Chief Executive Circle 33 Martin Cheeseman, Director of Housing Services, London Borough of Brent Mike Davis, Director Housing at London Borough of Croydon 5 April 2005 Homelessness Mark Grant - Director of Services and Deputy Chief Executive, Broadway Rebecca Sycamore - Head Homeless Link's London team Martin Cheeseman - Director of Housing, Brent Kamal Faizi – Divisional Director, London Borough of Newham 12 April 2005 Business Irving Yass CB - Director of Policy, London First Jo Valentine, Chief Executive, London First Jeff Austin, Director, Tribal Consulting Geraint Williams, Strategy Manager for BT Education and Local Government 19 April 2005 Sir Sandy Bruce-Lockhart, Chair, Local Government Association John Ransford, Director of Education and Social Policy at the Local Government Association 10 May 2005 Michael Snyder Chairman of the Policy and Resources Committee at Corporation of London 24 May 2005 NHS and Provision of Health Services Carolyn Regan, Chief Executive, North East London Strategic Health Authority Stuart Bell, Chief Executive, South London & Maudsley NHS Trust Kathy Jones, Director of Service Development, London Ambulance Service Caroline Taylor, Chief Executive, Croydon Primary Care Trust 31 May 2005 Chief Executives of London Boroughs Mary Ney, Chief Executives’ London Committee, CE of LB Greenwich Leo Boland, Honorary Secretary of CELC and CE of LB Barnet Rob Leak, Member of CELC and CE of LB Enfield Bruce McDonald, Member of CELC and CE of LB Kingston 7 June 2005 Grass Roots Simon Wooley, Chair, Black Londoners Forum Matt Dykes Policy Officer of SERTUC Kate Monkhouse, Director, London Civic Forum Peter Eversden, Chair of the London Forum of Amenity and Civic Societies 14 June 2005 Parish Councils Michael Green, Policy and Parliamentary Affairs Manager Justin Griggs, Head of Development Tim Ricketts, Head of Legal Services Cllr James Lewis (Labour), Kippax and Methley Ward, Leeds City Council Cllr Isabella Fraser (Lib Dem), Campbell Park Parish Council, Milton Keynes Council and Chair MK Association of Urban Local Council Caroline Godfrey, Parish Liaison Manager, Milton Keynes Council Unitary Authority Cllr Thomas Fraser, Campbell Park Parish Council, Milton Keynes Council and Training Officer for County Association for Parish Councils 20 June 2005 Learning Skills Ros Dunn, Director, Strategy & Corporate Planning, London Development Agency, (LDA representative on LSC London North Council) Maxine Jones, Director, LDA's Skills and Employment division Jacqui Henderson, Regional Director London, LSC London Central Peter Pledger, Executive Director, London West John Wise, Former Executive Officer, Corporation of London 28 June 2005 Rt Hon Lord Heseltine 12 July 2005 New York City Rosemary Scanlon, Former Deputy State Comptroller for the City of New York Ester Fuchs, Special Advisor to Mayor Bloomberg. 19 July 2005 Waste Mike Nicholls, General Manager, West London Waste Authority Barbara Herridge, Chief Executive, Waste Watch Cllr Gerry Ryan, LB Croydon John Duffy, Mayor's Policy Director for Environment Dirk Hazell, Chief Executive, Environmental Services Association Nick Lester, Director, Transport, Environment and Planning Simon Read, Project Director, London Recycling Fund 22 July 2005 Sir Michael Lyons, strategic adviser to Government and a Professor of Public Policy at INLOGOV, Birmingham University. 6 September The Arts 2005 Sarah Weir, Executive Director, Arts Council England, London Karin Gartzke, Chief Executive, Richmond Theatre and Chief Executive of the New Wimbledon Theatre Cllr Denise Jones, Deputy Chair, Association of London Government Culture and Tourism Board 13 September Rt Hon Nick Raynsford MP, former Minister for Local Government and 2005 the Regions. 19 October 2005 Policing Police Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair Commander Jim Smith 20 October 2005 First Minister for Wales, Rt Hon Rhodri Morgan Principle Private Secretary, Lawrence Conway 8 February 2005 Commission on London Governance: First Hearing Members of the Commission held its first evidence gathering session on Local Empowerment and improved services for the capital by putting questions to Tony Travers, Director Greater London Group, London School of Economics. Present: London Assembly Association of London Government Bob Neill (Deputy Chair, chaired the Cllr Stephen Carr (substitute for Cllr session) Edward Lister) Brian Coleman Cllr Cameron Geddes Darren Johnson Cllr Steve Hitchins Murad Qureshi Cllr Clyde Loakes Graham Tope Cllr Simon Milton (substitute for Cllr Merrick Cockell) Transcript Bob Neill (Deputy Chair): The first evidentiary session. The first thing is to introduce Tony Travers. I suspect Tony (Travers) needs very little introduction as Director of the Greater London Group at the London School of Economics (LSE). I should declare an interest as a former product of LSE myself, as I think perhaps others in this room would be connected with this Authority. Tony (Travers) is acknowledged all round as one of the leading if not the leading academic experts on London. I have certainly found his published works very interesting and useful and of course he has been a great help to both the Greater London Authority (GLA) and the Association of London Government (ALG), often ready to provide us with evidence and advice. We are grateful for trespassing on your time again. As you know with these things, we like to keep it fairly fluid and try to have a bit of discussion going. There are a number of topics that we want to touch upon. What I think I would be grateful for is your indication to us to start with of what you see as the key areas that need looking at as far as London governance is concerned. Tony Travers (Director, Greater London Group, London School of Economics): Thank you to all members of the Commission for inviting me to this, the first evidentiary hearing of the Commission on London Governance. If I could just say in a historical context, given the number of distinguished enquiries that have addressed this issue – Ullswater (Royal Commission on London Government (Ullswater Commission) 1922), Herbert (Herbert Royal Commission 1960), Marshall (Marshall Report 1978) – over the last century, in a sense there is always a good time to have another review. The question of what works and what does not in London is a matter of permanent interest, partly because of the city’s vast geographical size, and partly because of its history – the way it evolved from small units of government up to being a big city and from time to time, units of city-wide government have been clamped upon it. The question of how the city is best governed is probably never going to be settled once and for all. If I can address the precise question you asked, Chair, I think if one takes the system as it has evolved over the nearly five years since the GLA Act came into effect, I think what we have seen is a system that has matured. Though there are doubtless calls – as there always will be with London government systems – for something to be abolished, broadly, the system has settled down. The questions within the present arrangements that still clearly remain to be addressed include the extent to which power is or is not over-concentrated within central government in relation to the powerful new unit of government that the GLA is or could more fully become. The second issue is of course the question of London’s – both the boroughs’ and the GLA’s – financial freedom. The third issue that still remains on the table is whether the arrangements that were initially set up for the GLA and its internal workings are the best they could possibly be. Certainly from my perspective, it seems first, the disposition of powers between central government and London including the boroughs; secondly, financial matters; and thirdly the question of how the GLA operates given that we are now five years into a new system. I think those are the three key issues I would highlight. Bob Neill (Deputy Chair): That is thoughtful, and perhaps if it convenient to members, we will try to take it in broadly those blocks as I think that fits in with some of the issues we ourselves have to think about. Let us kick off with the over-governance. If we were looking at that over-governance, how would you say it is characterised, and what are potentially the problems that you see arising from that? How might we look at it? Tony Travers (Director, Greater London Group, London School of Economics): I think the primary difficulty for this Commission and those represented on it, is that they are only two of the at least three levels of government that operate to a significant extent in London.