RuPaul: Hey guys this is RuPaul and that’s Michelle.

Michelle Visage: Hi.

RuPaul: And this is What’s the Tee, our podcast for everybody who wants to know about everything.

Michelle Visage: A podcast for any occasion.

RuPaul: Do you listen to podcasts?

Michelle Visage: I do listen to podcasts because I do a lot of hiking and I know you like to listen to music, and you impregnate my iPod actually it’s due for some twins.

RuPaul: Oh yes well I’ve got the seed for your iPod.

Michelle Visage: I know you do, but for me when I, like I take my dog on a 3-5 mile hike and I like to listen to podcasts.

RuPaul: A 3-5 mile hike?

Michelle Visage: I do in my neighborhood, because it gets my fat ass moving, it gets my mind cleared and it gets the dog exercising. We have a one year old puppy and he’s really energetic, when I take him to the park I feel like I’m just being a lump. It’s great for him because he gets to run and he needs that run time, but for me at least I’m teaching him how to walk on his leash properly because he’s a pit bull and he’s crazy. It just gets me moving and I live in a beautiful neighborhood so I put on my podcasts, he just does his things and walks and we do our thing. I listen to a bunch of stupid podcasts, they’re not even personality driven they’re like Julian Michaels and her workout podcasts. I listen to The Paleo Solution, healing podcasts, because I have an autoimmune disease and my whole focus on this year (not career wise but personally) is to cure this autoimmune disease. I believe anything can be healed through proper diet and the way you take care of yourself, so that is my goal this year to heal myself, I’m trying to get all the information that I can so I listen to people that have really great podcasts with lots of information.

RuPaul: So now we’re talking about the thyroid?

Michelle Visage: Yes I have something called hashimoto’s thyroiditis which is an autoimmune disease, everything else in my blood work always comes out great and then the doctor goes “Oh my god.” And it’s the thyroid peroxidase where it sees that the autoimmune disease my body is attacking itself. I want that to reverse because all the reading that I’ve done, all of it comes down to something called AIPE and I don’t want to get too boring or too drawn out, but there’s so many women and men but mostly women that have my disease. It can be cured through food.

RuPaul: Wow.

Michelle Visage: It can be cured, it’s totally from around you, environmental, they say that it’s genetic but nobody in my family has it. I don’t want to die young and be decrepit, I want to be vibrant so I’m trying to change it around. I can’t just juice because you need more than that, people that go vegan on my autoimmune, it’s effected detrimentally.

RuPaul: Really? Michelle Visage: Which is amazing, because almost live raw vegan can cure a host of things including cancer and of course this is not all approved by the FDA, this is just me and my thoughts. But for autoimmune it’s autoimmune protocol which is autoimmune paleo, you have to cut out certain vegetables, you need proteins from certain animals so I’m not a fan of eating meat. I haven’t eaten it in years and I’m not going to start eating it, but I have reintroduced chicken back in to my diet. You have to be careful with fish because of Fukushima and all the radiation that happened in Japan, it’s down here it’s in our fish. There’s so many things that you have to be aware of that we’re not, we’re such blind people as a society when it comes to food and the way we feed our bodies.

RuPaul: Absolutely.

Michelle Visage: You and I we can attest to…

RuPaul: A lot of people that we did Morning Jive Radio in New York, there was a period where we had this guy. We’d get there at 5am.

Michelle Visage: Magic Mark and the candy cart we named him.

RuPaul: Magic Mark would come around to fill all the machines in the building but he liked us and we were there so early, he would let us have our take of whatever we wanted on his cart. So we would grab snickers and Reese’s peanut butter cups, you name it and we would just go crazy.

Michelle Visage: You loved cinnamon brown sugar pop tarts.

RuPaul: Oh I love those, oh my goodness and this is like 96 and 97’.

Michelle Visage: It was 96’ because this was before my wedding, my wedding was in 97’ and then we enlisted Voltage.

RuPaul: That’s right and you got down to a size what for your wedding?

Michelle Visage: Size two.

RuPaul: Oh my God it was crazy, but I remember before we enlisted Voltage to help us lose weight, I remember looking at my ass and thinking “Who’s ass is this?”.

Michelle Visage: I so got through those days, like now going who’s ass is this?

RuPaul: I couldn’t believe it was so much sugar and also to be fair, the hours were crazy.

Michelle Visage: We’d wake up at 2am.

RuPaul: Wake up at 2am, most of those nights I would stay up all night, go in to the radio station, the car would come for me at 4:30am.

Michelle Visage: It showed in your eyeballs.

RuPaul: Yes the car would come for me at 4:30am, we were going on to air at 5am?

Michelle Visage: 6am, but we’d have to be there by 5am to start prepping.

RuPaul: To start prepping with the newspapers and all that kind of stuff and then I would go home and crash, but then a little bit later we got the VH1 show, leave the studio, go to the VH1 show. At the same time I was promoting MAC Cosmetics and I had a book out and an album out at the same time. I was doing all of those jobs.

Michelle Visage: And I was planning a wedding doing the radio show and doing the VH1 show.

RuPaul: But the full thing was out of control for me and I couldn’t believe what my body was doing.

Michelle Visage: It’s an addition but even to this day Ru being a 45 year old woman, back then I felt like I cared more about what my body was doing because the change… I don’t know. But now these days I had my kids, I had two cesareans, I look in the mirror and I’m like “Umm it sucks anyway so why don’t I go ahead and have some Cheetos?”. What I’m doing is feeding my disease, I don’t really care as much about my fat ass and my fat gut I really don’t, because I feel like people are going to love me for who I am no matter and that’s a beautiful way to be but it’s also careless. The fact that I’m feeding my disease every time I put that stuff in my mouth, that’s the stuff that scares me. I’m trying to get educated so going back to the original question, I try to listen to podcasts that have information on “Okay I’m going to try this, I’m going to try that.”. If all you guys can do that are struggling with your weight or whatever it is, is get out there and walk – walk. That’s what I’m doing, I got to a point where my body had never been better than it was when I was 40 years old. I was the better than when I was 20 and had a trainer six days a week, I was doing sprint training and I looked unreal. Then I hurt my neck in the gym by lifting too heavy, if you guys watched The Reunion episode of season three you’ll see me dancing at the runway at the end with a neck brace on, that was real. I hurt myself so terribly that I couldn’t move for six months, I couldn’t sit, I couldn’t sleep, it was the worst experience and you know this being a back survivor. You had surgery and I didn’t, so the point was I turned to food again and I haven’t ever quite got myself out of that hole, even though I know what I’m supposed to be doing so I think it was detrimental to me and my disease.

RuPaul: But you grew up, we talked about your mother earlier today because today happens to be her birthday. But you grew up in a household that was a foodie household.

Michelle Visage: I had two fat parents yes, absolutely and I believe that’s why my mother died at the age of 56. Too young because not only was she fat, she just didn’t take care of herself. Now growing up I will say this though and you’ll probably agree with me, back when we grew up I grew up in the 70s and 80s my mother cooked every night. My mother worked a job and my father worked a job but my mother cooked every night.

RuPaul: Was she a good cook?

Michelle Visage: She was a very good cook but she never let me in the kitchen, she was a big meat eater and she had a problem. I gave up eating meat when I was 16, she had a problem with me not wanting to eat meat. She said even when I was a baby I’d leave it for the dog under my high chair, I just never liked meat so it really goes against everything I’m supposed to be doing now, which is where the problem lies so you always turn for the easiest thing. But do you know about the whole 30?

RuPaul: The whole 30?

Michelle Visage: Alright it’s called the whole 30 it’s a 30 day challenge to take every single thing that’s not good for you out of your life. I think I’m about to undertake that, but the point is..

RuPaul: Is there a website attached to this? Michelle Visage: Whole30.com and it’s free you can download everything, it’s just a challenge for you and I want to do it for my kids. I pack their lunches for school and I pack them beautiful stuff.

RuPaul: You make them sandwiches?

Michelle Visage: Every day I get up at 6am and I make sure that I have the good stuff from Wholefoods so there’s no nitrates and nitrites, those things cause cancer. If my kid wants a turkey sandwich I’ll get real turkey, I’ll put it on a beautiful piece of bread or sometimes Lola my little girl doesn’t like bread, I wish I didn’t like bread so I throw it in a little container for her and everything they get is natural and organic. I try to steer them in the right direction, so why is it okay for me to pile in the crap in my pipe hole? But it’s like you said on the other podcast though, it’s filling something that’s got nothing to do with the food.

RuPaul: Right it’s a symptom of something else.

Michelle Visage: Absolutely and we all struggle with something and I guess my point is, I want this year to be focusing on my health and my vibrancy, my vitality and coming back to who I was instead of sitting back. If we don’t change it we can’t complain about it, so I don’t like the way I look on season six I think I look way too voluptuous. I want to change it, for season seven I want to be like “Bam bitches!”.

RuPaul: Well we’re going to start filming season seven in a few months.

Michelle Visage: I’ve got months, I can do a little damage in months. I’m not going to do all the damage but I’ll do some damage.

RuPaul: You mentioned that your weapon of choice are Cheetos?

Michelle Visage: I’m just saying anything like a junk food, because I do have some snacks in the house for the kids mind you they’re organic gold fish, and they’re ducks instead of goldfish but they’re goldfish nonetheless. It’s a matter of me not eating the foods that are going to inhibit my thyroid crap, so I’ve got to take night shades out, I’ve got to take eggs out, it’s so strict the way I’m supposed to be eating that’s why when I listen to podcasts, they kind of help me give me motivation. That’s what we’re here to do, our podcast is going to get you motivated whether it’s working out, your music, whatever – that’s what we’re here to do.

RuPaul: We’ve got to use what you’ve got to get what you want girl.

Michelle Visage: Know how to hold them.

RuPaul: Now you were talking about hearing an interview with Bill O’Reilly and Russell Simmons about Beyoncé.

Michelle Visage: Yes it was a couple of weeks ago Russell Simmons was on to promote his new book and meditation and schools and whatever he’s doing, he not unlike you has made a big shift kind of evolution wise.

RuPaul: But he’s been making that shift for years.

Michelle Visage: He has but Russell was my manager after Seduction and before Soul System.

RuPaul: Really? Michelle Visage: Yes I was with Russell for a little bit and he thought that I could be something, but he wasn’t very active. I wanted to be this big white girl rapper, I wanted to be the female Eminem back then. He believed and me and he took me under his wing but knowing Russell I got to go in the apartment that he owns that was Cher’s and that’s all that matters for me.

RuPaul: Is that for the Broadway?

Michelle Visage: Yes that it was Cher’s, that’s all I cared about. For me seeing him evolve in to what he is today was like “Holy sh..”, that’s not the Russell that I knew. Russell was all fat and dumpy, a partier, I’m so proud of him not that I need to be but I really am. Watching you evolve in to kind of this space that you’re in is amazing for me because I’ve seen you in other ways, so it’s amazing to see you be this deity to all these kids. You’re going to be like the new L. Ron Hubbard, there’s going to be a Ru Ron Hubbard religion. Ruatoligy.

RuPaul: So you heard this Russell Simmons dialogue with Bill O’Reilly?

Michelle Visage: Correct so he’s there to push one thing and Bill O’Reilly and his negative ass, look I’m not a fan but he has the right to say what he wants to say. So Bill O’Reilly brings up Beyoncé’s Partition video now mind you my 12 year old daughter is obsessed with that hold album, obsessed. I do not share any of my music styles with my kids because most of my iPod is Broadway and then the rest is hip hop. My kids don’t share, my one daughter is in to Panic! At the Disco, My Chemical Romance, she’s a total emo girl. Lola is my little black girl, she loves hip hop, she’ll do all the dances and she downloaded that Beyoncé album before I even knew it was out.

RuPaul: She got the clean version, is there a clean version?

Michelle Visage: There is a clean version and she doesn’t understand what the dirty version is.

RuPaul: She doesn’t know what surfboarding is?

Michelle Visage: She doesn’t know what that is, she doesn’t know what on her knees is all about, she doesn’t know what Monica Lewinsky is, she asked me and I was like “She did a dirty thing with our president.”, you know what I mean so you find your ways around it. You can only protect your kids so much, I do look at what they’re doing.

RuPaul: Oh please knowledge is power.

Michelle Visage: Correct, she asked me and I tell them. Bill O’Reilly had a problem with that saying that she’s a role model, she’s a mother, why is it necessary? Look I’m trying to be kinder about it he was like “How dare she make a video like this where she’s talking about getting on her knees, Monica Lewinskied all over my dress? This is a married woman, what is she doing? She’s not a role model it’s disgusting.”.

RuPaul: I don’t know what world he’s living in.

Michelle Visage: Well you know what world he’s living in.

RuPaul: It’s just so funny to me that people, there are two of us. Each of us there’s the person that we are when we’re with other people, and then there’s the person we are when we’re at our computers or on Craigslist or whatever. Everybody is two people and people argue these self-righteous viewpoints that don’t really gel in the real world, when you have total vision of who humans are on this planet. Michelle Visage: I don’t think he believes all of that.

RuPaul: I don’t think so, I think he just sort of goes and panders to a certain ideal.

Michelle Visage: Yes to get those people to stay by him and go “You go Bill O’Reilly!”, I don’t think anybody could really think because the bottom line is Russell Simmons said “It’s art.” And Bill goes “How can you call this art? It’s ridiculous, this is not art, this is her talking disgusting and why is it necessary?”. Although as a mother I’m not negating what he’s saying, I don’t understand why it’s necessary but Russell’s point is she’s talking to a certain group of people and she knows who she’s talking to. These people whether it’s people of color like Bill O’Reilly said.

RuPaul: He said that really?

Michelle Visage: He did it was so ridiculous, Russell kind of chuckled which made me laugh. Or anybody in general and Russell made a good point “I don’t think saying people of color warrants here because Beyoncé has completely blown away far beyond...”.

RuPaul: She’s the biggest pop star in the world.

Michelle Visage: Correct and Bill O’Reilly did agree, but again as a mother do I want my kid to see the video? No, but that’s my job as a mother to protect my kids and know what they’re watching, to know what she’s downloading. I know she downloaded the album and I know she downloaded the clean version of the album, I told her “You cannot see this video.”.

RuPaul: How old is she?

Michelle Visage: 12. I don’t want her seeing that, the 14 year old already knows more than I can… it is what it is they’re different kids. I can protect Lola, Lillie can handle it but Lola is way more sensitive.

RuPaul: But is it protecting? I mean parents have this idea that we need to make the world baby safe, we need to cover all the sharp edges so that your kids don’t get their head bumped up against something. But we humans the way we find out and learn things is by bumping our heads up against sharp edges.

Michelle Visage: 100%, my kids asked me what t-bagging was, my kids have asked me everything and I will tell them the truth.

RuPaul: You told them it has to do with celestial seasonings and Lipton.

Michelle Visage: That’s exactly what I said as any good mother would, I said it’s something to do with the face. She said “Okay.”.

RuPaul: “Yes I’ll accept that.”.

Michelle Visage: That’s what she did, it was a really funny moment. She has asked me about all of it and I’m honest with all of it.

RuPaul: You should be because the thing is that you arm your children with knowledge, and then you have to also arm them with the ability to process the information and to check in with their own personal GPS system, that says that this doesn’t feel right for me or this feels perfect for me. That is what you do, I remember my sister she wouldn’t allow her kids to listen to hip hop music and stuff like that. I was like “That’s outrageous, it only makes it more appealing to them that it’s being kept from them.”.

Michelle Visage: I’m sure Lola has seen the video after I told her not to watch it.

RuPaul: Partition?

Michelle Visage: Yes but Lola is a rule abiding kid, she’s the kid that is probably going to lose friends because she abides by the rules too much.

RuPaul: Lola’s the older one or the younger one? Because it’s Lola and Lillie and I’ve known them forever but I get the mixed up.

Michelle Visage: It’s fine Lola is the baby and I’m not shielding her, she’s a kid who likes to be shielded, she doesn’t even let Lillie say crap around her because it offends her.

RuPaul: The word crap?

Michelle Visage: She says “Don’t curse around me!” and she cries when I curse, it’s really offensive to her.

RuPaul: She must be crying an awful lot Michelle.

Michelle Visage: I’m so good around my children, I really do my best Ru.

RuPaul: Really?

Michelle Visage: I do my best not to curse around them because they get it at school, they get it all around them, if she asked me not to I can only respect her wishes. With that said she’s like a little innocent kid whereas Lillie is like me, I’ve got one of each and I want her to know everything and if she has questions she asks me. But I also know that the video will embarrass her, she will get embarrassed by it which is why I told her not to watch it. If she does it’s up to her and what she does, that type of stuff okay it’s a music video it’s not like a movie. But for me I agree with you I don’t like my children saying “My chicky hurts.”, I want them to say my vagina and know that it’s called a vagina and a penis. I remember my friends were like “Eww! How can you have your kid saying vagina at three years old?”. But for me I think it’s important not to sugar coat everything.

RuPaul: I agree but I’ve never heard anyone refer to their vagina as my chicky.

Michelle Visage: That’s our little code word so in public when they were kids, I didn’t want them to go “My vagina!” but it didn’t help anyway they always went to vagina and not chicky.

RuPaul: I love chicky, I think that’s so great.

Michelle Visage: That was our word for it.

RuPaul: You know George, his sisters name is Chickwita.

Michelle Visage: Are you kidding me?

RuPaul: Her name is Chickwita and they call her chicky.

Michelle Visage: Well she’s a vagina. RuPaul: She’s a vagina yes, chicky, chickina.

Michelle Visage: I love it, but so going back to Beyoncé I think she has every right and is still a role model to me.

RuPaul: Oh she’s brilliant, one of the records A Drunk in Love came on the shuffle yesterday in the car, usually I keep my iPod on shuffle in the car. I’ve got to tell you I love Beyoncé, she is the consummate super star professional hard worker and a sweet heart and a smart girl too. This record is a concept album, it’s a concept album about her life as a super star, mother, wife, that’s the concept. But I’ve got to tell you having said that the album doesn’t appeal to me that much.

Michelle Visage: Let me tell you why being a radio chick there’s no hits.

RuPaul: There’s no hits on it.

Michelle Visage: I was having this argument with Carmen Carrera because if anything it’s a very sexy album, anything that’s sexy Carmen is going to love and defend till the day she dies. She’s like “But it’s so sexy!”, I’m like “Listen I know but there’s no hits.”, “What are you talking about?”, “Carmen, there’s no hits on this album.”, “You don’t know what you’re talking about, every song is a hit I’m telling you, you don’t know.”, I said “Carmen listen you can roll around on stage and dance to whatever you want, there’s no song that’s going to be played on the radio from this album.”. At the beginning I was not interested in it, Lola has played it so much that I now love Partition, Drunk in Love.

RuPaul: Well there’s that lollipop song or something or candy, there’s something that seems like it would be a hit, I have it in my computer I should look at it later. Anyway there is something in my mind that could possibly be like a radio song but I don’t hear it, I don’t go to the album to listen to it, only if it comes on shuffle.

Michelle Visage: See the thing is I think that her fans are in love with it, my daughter is in love with it and she’s 12. I think Bill O’Reilly’s thing is probably you’ve got kids that are 12 that are loving you so much, why did you need to do a video like that? But she’s doing it really for her diehards that’s what this album is all about.

RuPaul: But this is the first time she’s really ever gone there, she said the S-H-I-T word, I just spelled it which is the same as saying it.

Michelle Visage: She said poopy.

RuPaul: Yes she said poopy and she’s never done that before, she’s never done it and this was an artistic decision to say “You know what, I’m actually going to reflect on this album who I am as a women at 33 years old.”.

Michelle Visage: And married, it’s a man behind the partition.

RuPaul: That’s right, I think it’s pretty provocative.

Michelle Visage: Is it role modely? No probably not.

RuPaul: People ask me about that role model stuff, “Ru you’ve become a role model…”, my goal is not to become a role model. Michelle Visage: I don’t think hers is either, I think anybody that gets in to this industry does not go in to it to be a role model.

RuPaul: When you get in to the auto industry do you go in to the auto industry to become a role model? I don’t think so.

Michelle Visage: No.

RuPaul: I had to say that because of Female Trouble the movie. I think that your parents are your role models, that’s where you get all of your stuff from.

Michelle Visage: I’m not going to look to a pop star to be my role model, they are by default but I don’t think they choose to be. If Madonna was really my role model I’d be in trouble I’d be on my back when I was 12, which for me she was my everything but that doesn’t mean I’m going to act like her. They have to stop with the forcing of people in to role model land, and allow them to be who they want to be. People get in to this industry and know very well what they’re doing, if Taylor Swift wants to be who she is right now which I’m not a fan of hers at all, then God bless her she wants to be a role model then she can take on the weight of the world and be the Virgin Mary. But for somebody like Beyoncé she’s talking to a different crowd, that’s not who she’s talking to this is what she wants to do artistically and I think, have you seen the video?

RuPaul: Oh my I love it, I never listen to the album but I watched the video.

Michelle Visage: I have not seen a video that hot in years.

RuPaul: It’s so fantastic, I don’t listen to the album but I bought the record the moment I heard about it, I was on iTunes and I went and got it. But I just want to close with this, I love Sharon Needles statement which is “I never wanted to be a role model, I just really wanted to be a supermodel.”.

Michelle Visage: Well that’s not going to happen so in the meantime role model is out too, buy her album on iTunes.

RuPaul: Hey listen whether you aspire to be a role model, a supermodel or creating a business model, you are going to need a website that shows the world who you really are. When someone tells me to check them out the first thing I do is Google their website, if their website is sloppy I assume they’re sloppy at everything they do and I quickly sachet away. Remember your website is the first impression anybody has of you, go to Squarespace, get your website, be prepared. You know what I always say “If you stay ready you ain’t got to get ready, get your website together.” Plans start at only $8 a month and come with a free domain name when you sign up for a year. $8 A month, now when you’re blown away and ready to confirm a plan just use the offer code Ru to get 10% off. Now by supporting Squarespace you’re supporting this podcast by keeping it free, so go to Squarespace.com and get yourself a website. Hey guys let’s do a little beauty talk here, I want to talk about going total blam but we’ll do that in just a minute. But first I want to talk about moisturizing, this is for our two straight guys that might be listening to this.

Michele Visage: Probably my husband… RuPaul: And my lawyer. When I was ten years old my mother said three words to me the same three words “Moisturize, moisturize, moisturize.”. I have moisturized and I’ve done it my whole life, I can use the cheap stuff too. I love the Palmer’s which is, you know who told me about Palmer’s?

Michelle Visage: Cocoa butter?

RuPaul: My hands were really ashy on the set one day.

Michelle Visage: Lotion up girl.

RuPaul: I was in the workroom with the girls and it was the season with Roxy Andrews on, I said “Oooh Child my hands are ashy!”.

Michelle Visage: That was last season, you’re acting like it was so long ago.

RuPaul: Was it?

Michelle Visage: It was season five girl!

RuPaul: But I’d never had the Palmer’s before, I had seen it.

Michelle Visage: The cocoa butter?

RuPaul: No it was Palmer’s lotion. She said “Oh honey give me a minute, here.” And she threw me a bottle of this Palmer’s and I put it on, it was so luxurious.

Michelle Visage: It wasn’t too greasy?

RuPaul: It wasn’t too greasy it went in to my skin really nicely, black folk get a little bit ashy around the knuckles.

Michelle Visage: I know girl who are you telling?

RuPaul: This little area in between the thumb…

Michelle Visage: The webbing.

RuPaul: The webbing yes, I put that on and I fell in love with it.

Michelle Visage: Really?

RuPaul: I fell in love with it and it looks really great, there’s this little sheen to it because it’s a lotion but it’s got a hint of cocoa butter.

Michelle Visage: Well I use straight up coconut oil on my face these days.

RuPaul: Really, that’s not too greasy? You don’t wear it with moisturizer though?

Michelle Visage: No just the oil, at night I’ve been putting on organic coconut oil on my skin. Now if you get clogged pores it’s not for you, but if you don’t have to worry about that stuff, well I’ve always been blessed with good skin I’m lucky.

RuPaul: You do you’re gorgeous.

Michelle Visage: But with that said I do a Clarisonic every day. RuPaul: What’s a Clarisonic?

Michelle Visage: That’s the machine that has the brush on the end of it.

RuPaul: Oh like on the home shopping and QVC?

Michelle Visage: Yes but it works.

RuPaul: Doesn’t Susan Lucci have one of those?

Michelle Visage: Who knows? I got the leopard print one from Sephora, it was worth $130 and I got one for my daughter for Christmas. Honestly and she has something called KP which is also called chicken skin which is disgusting, do you ever see people with bumps on their arms?

RuPaul: Yes.

Michelle Visage: That’s what it is, it’s something you’re born with and it never goes away. It does help, she had a little bit on her face and it’s not there anymore so the Clarisonic helps with that. Coconut oil is such a healer in so many facets.

RuPaul: Where do you get coconut oil?

Michelle Visage: Any health food store and as a matter of fact you can probably get it at Target and Walmart these days. I always say if you’re putting it on your skin it should be organic, if you’re ingesting it should be organic. I like natural skincare, if I’m going natural I like Annemarie Börlind and I like Dr. Hauschka, you can always find them in the skincare the whole body section of Wholefoods.

RuPaul: And these are moisturizers?

Michelle Visage: A whole line, toners, moisturizers, eye cream, Atomic Cosmetics that’s another one out of Seattle that does everything naturally. If you’re going non-natural I love Amorepacific which you can get at Sephora, it’s one of my favorites and they don’t have too many chemicals in it.

RuPaul: Those sound so expensive.

Michelle Visage: They’re not that’s what I’m telling you, it’s not no Palmer’s cocoa butter but they’re not La mer either. Amorepacific, Dior even though they’re on the pricier side has some great skincare. You know who has the best skincare but I can’t afford it? Chanel. Chanel’s skincare line is out of control but they never send me anything free, I can talk about it till the cows come home and they don’t give me no gratis. I started just doing coconut oil it’s like $7 for a big jar of organic coconut oil, and I’m talking less than a dime size, about the size of a pea coconut oil solidifies.

RuPaul: Do you do it all over your body or just on your face?

Michelle Visage: I do it all over my body.

RuPaul: I’m going to try that, it’s just coconut oil at Wholefoods or one the natural food places?

Michelle Visage: Ru when I tell you a little bit I mean the size of like a big pea, it’s solid and then you rub it between your hands and you just do this. Guys, girls and everything in between who does not identify with a gender, put it on your neck, put it on your chest, everybody leaves out the neck and the chest but that’s the biggest giveaway when it comes to ageing. So make sure you do everything and you need the tiniest little bit, dab it around your eye area but if it gets in your eyes it’s going to get really blurry so make sure you don’t put it in your eyes.

RuPaul: Lotion up girl.

Michelle Visage: Absolutely, your legs, everything it’s better than cocoa butter.

RuPaul: I can use the cheap stuff and even with makeup sometimes I’m in makeup for 15-16 hours and I’ve never had a problem with my skin with makeup.

Michelle Visage: What do you use to take it off?

RuPaul: Mac makes this cleanser that is oil when you put it on and then you’re in the shower, and you rub it and it turns in to soap it dissolves. I don’t know what it’s called.

Michelle Visage: I know exactly what it is, I like their makeup wipes too.

RuPaul: I love those too but that’s usually what I use to take my makeup off. I want to talk a little bit about just glamorizing your look, speaking of makeup a lot of gals want to know “Okay I’m going to go to a wedding or I want to go from the office to an event afterwards. How do I glam up my look?”. My number one suggestion is always, wait for it… false eyelashes.

Michelle Visage: 100%.

RuPaul: But the thing is most people don’t know how to put them on.

Michelle Visage: I was just going to say that.

RuPaul: Because usually it’s a strip and you have to get the strip aligned with the follicle line of your own lash, that’s hard for most people.

Michelle Visage: You need to practice.

RuPaul: You have to practice but my trick and this is a sure proof trick of doing this, is to cut that strip in to three pieces and put a little bit of glue on the counter or whatever, and take a third of your strip and dip that in the glue then place that at the base of your lash.

Michelle Visage: Does Matthew do that for you?

RuPaul: He does it but the thing is well obviously we know how to do it really well, but what he’ll do is Matthew who obviously does my makeup he puts a strip down and then he’ll cut up a strip and put that on top of it to supplement the lash.

Michelle Visage: I wear about three pair of lashes per show, do you too?

RuPaul: Sometimes I’ll do three sometimes I’ll do two or one with a demi or something that has been cut up, but never just one. I also always wear lower lashes too.

Michelle Visage: Yes you do now real girls out there, biological women, lower lashes don’t usually work well for us because we’re just built differently. These are boys underneath their girl clothes and with that said they can wear bottom lashes differently than us, most women can’t wear bottom lashes without looking crazy. RuPaul: Well if you think about Diana Ross and Cher in the 70s, actually in the 70s everybody wore lower lashes. In fact you know how obsessed I am with Murder, She Wrote, I’ve bought every season and watch it every single night.

Michelle Visage: Are you telling me Angela Lansbury wore a bottom lash?

RuPaul: She wears a lower lash, she’s got those big eyes but they’re very conservative lower lashes. They show up on camera and it does give you dimension, a lot of times a lash is not about the length of the lash, on a side angle of a face it adds dimension and that’s where it’s important.

Michelle Visage: I agree and I recommend for biological women to get the individual short lashes for bottoms, and yes it takes more time and it takes a steady hand. You’re going to get so frustrated when you first try it but once you get it, it becomes really easy, that’s the way to go with bottom lashes – individuals and get the short, don’t get mediums or longs unless you’re going for a specific thing. But for me I do take strip lashes, my favorite lashes on the market are by Eylure, I love all the lashes that they have and some of them even come with self-adhesive that actually work.

RuPaul: Those are at the grocery store aren’t they?

Michelle Visage: Yes you can get them at Planet Beauty, any beauty supply place has Eylure. Their lashes are phenomenal, Katy Perry did a line for them and they’re actually pretty good too. Everything they do I just love their lashes the way they fit the curve of my eye, it’s important that you guys practice. Ru’s tip is great and another tip that I do is I put my head back so I’m looking down.

RuPaul: Yes that’s what I do.

Michelle Visage: If you try to go straight your eyelid is going to go up, you have to cock your neck back and look down so your eyes are basically closed. Then you let it dry and then you do that.

RuPaul: It makes all the difference, I love lashes you know a lot of times the girls on our show, they come and they use those huge 103s?

Michelle Visage: 301s.

RuPaul: Of course I’m dyslexic I get it backwards, they use those huge lashes which work in a club but they don’t on TV. The overhead lighting creates a shadow on their face and you just have to adjust for that.

Michelle Visage: The 301s are great when you are doing drag in a club, Ivy Winters like 304s, they’re very different. I’m learning the girls lash numbers – this is a problem. But because I’ve gone shopping with them all I know what they like, girls we can’t do 301s and 304s we’ll look ridiculous. So you go to an Ardell or an Eylure, what I like to do is layer wispy with something a little more dense. So you take the wispy’s on the bottom, you put the more dense one on the top so it looks like they’re wispy on the bottom but you get the full mission meat on top. You can even cut and just do a demi with the full ones so you get it on the outer corner. Just play around, lashes you do not have to pay a lot for them, go to a beauty supply place sometimes they’re cheaper.

RuPaul: Naimies you can get them for $2, it used to be over in New York on Broadway around 28th there was a place up there that Bunny used to get them for a dollar. Michelle Visage: See in San Antonio you can go to Black Fox they had really cheap ones there like $1.99, really fantastic and you can just play around with them and layer them. Don’t throw them away, if you find a lash you like you take it off and put it back in that case. I’ll use lashes for months.

RuPaul: You don’t even know the half of it.

Michelle Visage: Once it gets too thick you just start pulling off that gloop with the tweezers.

RuPaul: If you get a good lash that works with the curvature of your eye, you don’t want to let it go but honey I’m not even going to say how long I’ve had some lashes.

Michelle Visage: I’m with you girl and here’s the best part here’s the best tip and I just learned this from Queens travelling with them six months ago, do not mess with duo glue, get yourself some 30 second bond weave glue it is the best thing.

RuPaul: Everybody says that, I still do duo.

Michelle Visage: No don’t!

RuPaul: But the bond weave you’re putting bond weave on your eyes?

Michelle Visage: I said the same thing, it’s not, it’s nothing. It dries in 30 seconds.

RuPaul: This is the glue they put in your hair to put a weave in? You want me to put that on my eyes?

Michelle Visage: Yes, it’s super black.

RuPaul: Where do you get it?

Michelle Visage: The beauty supply store, it’s in like a little thing that has a pointed nose.

RuPaul: All the girls use it.

Michelle Visage: I was so scared I was like “I’m not going blind!”. A it holds better and B it comes off easier.

RuPaul: Really?

Michelle Visage: I’m always ripping eyelashes out when I take the duo off, because you don’t want to put grease on it because you want to save them lashes so you’ve got to try to pluck the lashes off. 30 Second bond weave glue I’ll take a picture of it and I’ll tweet it to you, that’s what you need to get, I’m telling you it will change your life.

RuPaul: So you’re @MichelleVisage I’m @RuPaul, so that’s your beauty advice right there, I’m going to get me some of that bond stuff.

Michelle Visage: Next time I’m there I’ll pick one up for you and you won’t have to worry about it, but I’m telling you once you go black you’re never going to go back.

RuPaul: Now the last time we sang a song on record was on my Christmas album called Ho Ho Ho.

Michelle Visage: 1997. RuPaul: 97, I don’t know how long ago that was but it was a long time ago. So now we have a new record out on my album which is called Born Naked and it’s a song called Let the Music Play.

Michelle Visage: When Ru first emailed me and said “I want you to do a duet with me it’s called Let the Music Play.”, the first thing I said was “Please do not tell me we’re trying to remake Shannon’s Let the Music Play.”. There’s some songs that just should not be touched.

RuPaul: Let the Music Play by Shannon is one of them it is a classic, didn’t that record start the whole freestyle movement?

Michelle Visage: It was one of the earliest ones for sure, so this one is definitely thank you Jesus not that. Ru sends me the demo and I was like “Well it’s going to be like a Ru Cher song so okay I’ll just fit in, get in where I fit in.” and he sent it and I was like “Oh my god this is actually a really good pop song.”.

RuPaul: You know what? Lucian and I decided to do something more like the sweetest pop like Ace of Base and that kind of thing, that’s what this song is like. We do the boom boom boom dance stuff on Born Naked, we do a rock song on there, there’s a guitar ballad.

Michelle Visage: This is my favorite RuPaul album, it’s your tenth album?

RuPaul: Tenth album yes.

Michelle Visage: Look I’ll find a few songs on every album that I love and I love your voice and I love singing with you so it doesn’t matter what you sing, it always makes me happy and it always makes me laugh. But this album I feel for you is your biggest risk, you don’t take risks like this and I think the biggest example of that is Adrenaline which is one of my favorite songs on the album. But this is not like you at all and even Can I Get an Amen with Martha Wash.

RuPaul: Talking about Born Naked it’s the most raw, the song that we have together which is Let the Music Play.

Michelle Visage: Which is the best song on the album.

RuPaul: It’s the best song on the album, it’s very raw too because the emotions there are very heartfelt. Actually I get verklempt whenever I hear that song.

Michelle Visage: I told you I started tearing up when you sent me the lyrics and I was like “Does this mean I’m gay?” and you’re like “Yes.”, “Okay then I’m on the right path.”.

RuPaul: It’s fun and I knew that you had been on the road singing again in the stage show, you’re going to Europe soon?

Michelle Visage: In May.

RuPaul: Is it our tour?

Michelle Visage: No it’s just Michelle Visage.

RuPaul: Just the Michelle Visage tour.

Michelle Visage: Yes I’m doing a little Euro tour because you know my anglophilia runs long wide and deep, so I’m going out there to see our UK babies who are just, when I tell you talk about a group of people who jump through hoops to get our show – they do everything and I try to tell them all the times “Babies, we are trying it’s not like we’re forgetting about you, we’re trying to get back on the air out there.”.

RuPaul: What’s this magazine that’s starting a petition to get us back on the air over there? What’s it called, Vada?

Michelle Visage: Yes.

RuPaul: They’ve started this petition I guess they’re petitioning to E4 or Channel 4.

Michelle Visage: E4 We were on E4 out there, I say we but that’s because I’m part of this show now but it was when Merle was on. So it was the seasons one and two I think were on, but the way they did I think it was on at 11pm or midnight something crazy. The show was just starting so of course it wasn’t taking off, drag is in a whole different world now because of RuPaul’s Drag Race so if you put us on now it’s going to be a smash hit. It’s just a matter of getting it back on at a time when people can watch it, and it will knock down all the barriers and walls over there.

RuPaul: Right because they can get it on Netflix there and a lot of obviously for years people were doing the torrent sites which are kind of dangerous, it’s dangerous for your computer to go on those sites because you don’t know what other kind of madness there is.

Michelle Visage: They want to watch it now though and that’s the thing, they are jumping through hoops so I’m heading over there and I think I’m going to sing Let the Music Play at the gigs over there.

RuPaul: Good, so you’re going just to the UK?

Michelle Visage: I’m also going to Amsterdam I believe so I’m going to Scotland, England, Ireland, anything that I can do to spread the word over there and anything else I want to spread while I’m there. I believe I’m going to bring your song there and sing it.

RuPaul: So of course you guys listening now the intro to this podcast has our music on there, it’s the instrumental version of it, who knows maybe we’ll get another Michelle Visage album. You’ve never had a solo album, you’ve been in the group Seduction, you were in the group Soul System and you’ve done some duets with me here and there but what about a solo album?

Michelle Visage: Lucian, I was singing with him doing my section of the duet and he was like “Oh my god, oh my god your voice, oh my god.” And I was like “Okay… calm down.” He was really making me feel loved, I explained to him my dilemma and my problem is in all the years that I sang I never wrote my own music and I really don’t want to write my own music. I don’t have that within me, I can write lyrics I’m a great lyric writer but the music the melody, I could sing it and I’ll start riffing with it but I’m not a writer per se, maybe I am and I’m just stopping myself but every time I’ve tried it never came out of me organically. That sounded terrible but you know what I’m saying. Everything and anything anybody has sent me over the years from producers that are like “Why don’t you sing?”, it’s just not moved me and motivated me enough to sing it. No matter what you sent me I was going to sing it anyway, but it just so happened that it was a song I really wanted to sing, that I actually enjoyed it. If there were more songs like that which I wanted to sing then yes I’d sing it, my state of mind is I was in a platinum selling group and then I was on the biggest selling soundtrack of all time. If I come back with a single that is a dud, I left on a high so that’s a lot of pressure I’m putting on myself. RuPaul: There’s this pressure but you have to do it because you want to do it and because you like it, whether it sticks or not.

Michelle Visage: Does that matter anymore?

RuPaul: It does not even matter.

Michelle Visage: Well then you need to write me a song, you can take your writers credits and take your monies and I’ll do it with Lucian, that’s the way I want to do it. I want to do it so it moves people and it sends the message that I’m sending, to me I’d love to focus on getting on Broadway in the next year even if it’s a six week roleplaying Mama Morton in Chicago.

RuPaul: Well why don’t you do that? Why don’t you pick your favorite show tunes and just do an album? You could even do it where you don’t even have to sell it, it should just be like one of those mixtapes, do a hip hop mix tape of Broadway songs.

Michelle Visage: Do you think people would want to hear that?

RuPaul: I think people would because in branding today and the way social media and with the show, fans and consumers want several different layers of involvement in things that they like. So they want a TV show, they want the t-shirt, they want the music, they want the fragrance, they want it all and it doesn’t necessarily have to make a lot of money, it just has to feed the hole. Feed the hole that’s what we say around here at World of Wonder, you’ve got to feed the hole and ultimately water finds its right level and you’ll get compensation for it somehow.

Michelle Visage: Sometimes it’s not about the money, absolutely not about the money it’s about the passion. My passion has always been musical theater so for me I left my goal years ago when I went in to recording, and I kind of put Broadway in the back burner, I never reached that goal even though I think I lied in interviews and said that I did

RuPaul: What’s your favorite show tune?

Michelle Visage: I don’t have a favorite.

RuPaul: Because you love them all.

Michelle Visage: I love so many.

RuPaul: You’re a Sondheim girl.

Michelle Visage: No god no, I do Sunday in the Park with George I like. Anything Bernadette Peters I love, she’s the best Sondheim singer on the face of the earth but I’m more of a Jerry Herman type of gal. I’m a belter, the next tour that we do I want to sing It’s Momma’s Turn from Gypsy like Ethel Merman stuff but I can do all of it.

RuPaul: What song did you do in the tour? I loved it you did great.

Michelle Visage: I did When You’re Good to Momma that’s from Chicago.

RuPaul: I love that. Michelle Visage: It’s fun, but sometimes I sing How Lovely to Be a Woman I change it to How Lovely to Be a Drag Queen from Bye Bye Birdie, girls 13 years old sing that song but it’s the gayest song ever written so that’s how you sing it.

RuPaul: Come on every show tune is really the gayest song ever written.

Michelle Visage: That’s true, you have a good point there amen to that. But I’m glad that people can go out and buy Born Naked, honestly it is the best RuPaul album yet out of all of them. I want you all to go out and support and really quickly before we end this segment, please let’s talk about really quickly this bootleg thing that you did. It was sent to me and I can’t even tell you, it’s the most brilliant thing you’ve ever done. So Ru puts out you know because we were talking about torrents and downloads, Ru puts out this special I think it’s called a Jabber, there’s a term for it like you’ve been Jabbered or something. You think you’re getting the song and you play the song like eight bars or whatever and then Ru comes in and he’s like “Uhuh pirate, I caught you!”, he just go and starts talking about the tracking a little bit, so he did this bootleg album right?

RuPaul: Yes it’s like a decoy record.

Michelle Visage: It’s hilarious, whose idea was that?

RuPaul: That was Lucians idea, now other record companies had done sort of decoy albums before where they play 30 seconds of the track and then it goes to static or something, but this is where he said “Give it 30 seconds of the track and then you go in and you start talking.”.

Michelle Visage: Hilarious you guys now they’re all going to download that one, but if you do download that one make sure you buy the real one because what you’re doing is supporting Ru in his art. It’s not like Ru’s walking around like the Kardashians, we’ve all got to eat so support your girl, go buy Born Naked on iTunes, buy our single Let the Music Play. I’m telling you from the bottom of my heart I do not talk crap, you’re going to love this album, there’s so many great songs on this album it’s not a one off. It’s a really good album so go ahead and get it.

RuPaul: It’s just really interesting there’s people talking about piracy and all that stuff, young kids believe that music is supposed to be free but the truth is this world we live in is about polar opposites, it’s yin yang, it’s male and female, night and day. If you do something if you put the work in you deserve the compensation, we’ve all pirated.

Michelle Visage: We’ve all been taken from.

RuPaul: Absolutely but you have to understand that there’s a give and take and cause and effect in this world that we’ve created, so it’s important and if you love something if you love what we do on Drag Race, if you love what we do our outspokenness and our freedom of speech, you have to support things that you believe in.

Michelle Visage: Even if the songs suck that these queens put out because most of them do, I love these queens but the music is horrible. With that said, pay the $0.99, get their single, there are some exceptions obviously. Jinksy’s album is coming out and I know some of the songs on them are so good, and I love a lot of the songs that Alaska does and Sharon has done, there’s some great stuff out there. Support your kids, buy the single if you can’t afford the album and when we come around to your town to tour, buy the tickets I know you know the queens but you’ve got to understand we don’t get paid a lot to do these tours, hand to God we don’t, nowhere near what we’d get if we went to a local club and got booked. With that said, you buying the ticket helps pay these queens so your support means everything to us, I feel like PBS right now but it’s true. We couldn’t do any of this, the show, the tour, the merchandise and the music, none of it can be done without the love and support of you guys so thank you so much.

RuPaul: Absolutely, okay so Michelle you’ve been married for how long?

Michelle Visage: June 20th it’s going to be 17 years, 17 years with the same penis.

RuPaul: Oh my goodness, I remember you guys got married on was it The Intrepid? It was some boat.

Michelle Visage: The Intrepid? What am I Cher?

RuPaul: I knew it was like on the harbor, it was on the Hudson.

Michelle Visage: It was on a Dolphin cruise line ship that doesn’t exist anymore, they’re defunct.

RuPaul: Oh they’re defunct.

Michelle Visage: Yes we probably sunk the Titanic.

RuPaul: But you guys are still together.

Michelle Visage: 17 Years after meeting in Central Park and I remember you telling me “Girl it’s too fast be careful” and I was like “I’m telling you…”.

RuPaul: Because you had just broken up with that other one.

Michelle Visage: He broke up with me, he dumped me after five years on the phone and I was devastated.

RuPaul: Burnt up a mink coat. But it was after five years you had broken up with what’s his name we’re not going to name his name, and then how long after that did you meet?

Michelle Visage: Well he broke up with me on like Memorial Day let’s say, it was in early May so it wasn’t Memorial Day. Then I went through the summer on a rampage, I was the angriest female on the planet, I would take guys back to my place, have sex with them and then kick them out. Guys were like “I want to see you again.” And I’m like “NO!”, “Can I have your number?”, “NO!”. I was angry, I was just going on a friggin estrogen filled rampage through the summer. So all the club gigs that I did because I was on the radio so I was all over the place, Long Island, Jersey Shore, I was just going through it. I was looking good, feeling gorgeous and just taking men. That was getting old really quick and then it was Labor Day weekend and we went to Central Park, I was looking really good in my bikini with my boobs so I was sitting out by the tree and long story short I met David. He went to Julliard with a girlfriend of mine, he came to see her in her bikini and ended up coming back with me. We got engaged six weeks after we met, three weeks we talked about it but technically six weeks and married in nine months.

RuPaul: Break up in May, engaged in October.

Michelle Visage: Break up in May, hooked up in the beginning of September, by mid-October engaged. RuPaul: Right, it always strikes me as strange when someone breaks up and are able to hook up with someone else shortly after. The night I met George I had just split up with someone, actually I was going out that night to just get it off my mind.

Michelle Visage: Of course.

RuPaul: But the truth is I met George that night and he was interested in me but I was like “You know what? I can’t even go there.”.

Michelle Visage: Because it was rebound for you still?

RuPaul: Yes and it was at about three months we said we’re going to be friends, and he kept trying but I was like “You know what, I can’t.”.

Michelle Visage: So you kept him at an arms distance?

RuPaul: At an arm distance for three months.

Michelle Visage: But you’re talking the same night, I met David four months after Michael and I broke up so that was a big deal, that’s four months.

RuPaul: Four months though I think that’s still, I don’t know, if I’m in to someone like that they’re like in me in my conscious.

Michelle Visage: Ru to this day I’ve been married for 17 years, when I think about the ex there’s still something in there, I’ll never get over that relationship. I think I’ll take it to the grave, I don’t know why, maybe because there was no closure and I had no say in it. It was just like “But but but…” and it was true love there, there was so much true love and you know that because you went through that break up with me. It was terrible I was ripped apart, so four months to me was a long bit of time and I knew right away when I met David I was like “This could be the guy that not only I marry but I’ll never cheat on.” Because I’ve cheated on every single, and sorry if you’re listening boyfriends I’ve cheated on every single one.

RuPaul: Is it cheating though I mean come on.

Michelle Visage: Dating isn’t cheating no.

RuPaul: You think it’s not cheating I know that but like, I think that when you just tell someone that all of this chicky is going to be for you and you alone.

Michelle Visage: I got this chicky for you.

RuPaul: I think that’s just such a lie.

Michelle Visage: I’ve got the good chicky, that’s because this is the one instance where I think gay men and women differ. It’s fundamental because women do not tolerate the chicky sampler platter, with gay men it’s almost a given that not everybody I’m not generalizing, but for the most part most of the gays I know they’re allowed to sample.

RuPaul: Listen I’ve got to tell you, men in general it’s in the DNA for you to want to spread that seed and it’s not even a conscious choice, it’s almost like this directive that has been placed there like a computer program. To ask a man to not “cheat” is like saying don’t follow your own intuitive instinctual behavior, now that doesn’t mean be a liar and be a prostitute whore.

Michelle Visage: Why are you quoting cheating?

RuPaul: Okay because with the cheating when you say cheating we’re talking about “Okay we’ve made a commitment, I’ve decided that my chicky is going to be for you and your chicky is going to be for me.”.

Michelle Visage: He doesn’t have a chicky he has a pee pee.

RuPaul: He has a pee pee. It’s cheating when you’ve crossed the line with your word, you’ve disrespected your word you broke your vow. That’s when it’s cheating.

Michelle Visage: Okay so you’re saying that it’s only cheating if it’s emotionally cheating?

RuPaul: No I’m saying that I think the idea of saying you have my chicky and my pee pee is going to be only for you is unreasonable.

Michelle Visage: I don’t want my husband sampling other chicky.

RuPaul: I don’t want him sampling it either, I don’t want him to unless he wants to.

Michelle Visage: No I don’t care if he wants to, I’m sure he wants to but my chicky is ready and available 24/7.

RuPaul: Sometimes you’re not in the mood for chicky.

Michelle Visage: I get it which is why I cheated on every single one of my boyfriends, every single relationship so I get it because I love me some penis. Straight up.

RuPaul: Who doesn’t?

Michelle Visage: Exactly, amen. But if he can control himself and only sample my chicky, the least I can do is only pay attention to his pee pee.

RuPaul: I’m just saying and I love that it sounds great on paper, but I think in reality I think we pain ourselves in to a corner by expecting to do something that’s actually against their own nature.

Michelle Visage: I don’t necessarily disagree though I really don’t, I get what you’re saying by nature we’re human and there’s animalistic needs and wants. I’ve been married for 17 years I’m 45 years old, don’t think a fine boy can’t still get me going at a club, but I have to walk away.

RuPaul: You’re all up in the club.

Michelle Visage: All up in the club I’ll be like “Let’s go to the bathroom because that’s how I roll.”. So trust me I get it, but it’s also taking that vow like you said it’s a responsibility, if you’re going to be monogamous then you’re going to monogamous. If you’re not then have that conversation at the beginning.

RuPaul: George and I have been, he’s the love of my life for the past 20 years but the truth is if he needs to go and taste some chicky or some pee pee.

Michelle Visage: I wouldn’t count on the chicky. RuPaul: Actually back in the day he was a chicky eater.

Michelle Visage: But you never had sex with a girl?

RuPaul: I never have.

Michelle Visage: You’ve kissed a girl though, queen Ester?

RuPaul: Queen Ester I kissed I sure did and I slipped her the tongue, but I never have.

Michelle Visage: She’s lucky she gets the crown.

RuPaul: Bragging rights.

Michelle Visage: Yes she’s the only one that made out with RuPaul.

RuPaul: But there was a girl across the street her name was Tina and I slipped her the tongue too.

Michelle Visage: You know what they say about Tina?

RuPaul: What?

Michelle Visage: Some say she’s much too loose.

RuPaul: Yes all those rumors yes.

Michelle Visage: I love it. So George used to be with chicks, I meet a lot of gay boys these days that were married, had kids from their wife and it’s all actually one big happy family most of them now.

RuPaul: One of his girlfriend’s name, I loved the name so much I put it in the movie Star Booty and Candis Cayne plays the character called Annaka Manners.

Michelle Visage: That was his ex-girlfriend?

RuPaul: That was his ex-girlfriend Annaka Manners and I just love that name, I can’t stop saying that name. Annaka Manners. Annaka Manners.

Michelle Visage: That’s a drag name and if you queens out there are looking for a drag name you’ve just found one.

RuPaul: But you never see that name Annaka.

Michelle Visage: You don’t see Chickwita either.

RuPaul: But Annaka is such a beautiful name.

Michelle Visage: It is beautiful, Americans don’t think out of the box, only in the south, only in the black culture do they think out of the box. You aren’t going to see no white person naming a kid Aquanetta, but I live for that.

RuPaul: I know I do too.

Michelle Visage: There’s no creativity and even Lillie and Lola aren’t the most creative, but I got a lot of flak for naming my kid Lola when I did. My mother in law told me it was a harlots name and she’ll be a street walked, I’m like “Duh… Look at her mother, hello?”. But a lot of people don’t know about your relationship with George, they don’t know there is a George. So 20 years almost that you’ve been with George.

RuPaul: Not it’s been 20 years.

Michelle Visage: Has it been 20 years?

RuPaul: Yes.

Michelle Visage: I know you guys together forever and I know that you’re soul mates and you don’t have to be living with each other, you don’t have be in the same state it’s just always going to be there. Even the years that you tried for it not to be there, you couldn’t help for it to be there.

RuPaul: Right, he is the person that I love the most. It’s just you live on this planet long enough and you realize what the odds are of finding someone that you can actually stand to be around for more than two hours.

Michelle Visage: Amen, that’s why I leave my house all the time.

RuPaul: It’s crazy, I just love him. He has a ranch in Wyoming, I’m here in L.A.

Michelle Visage: Dressing?

RuPaul: A ranch dressing in Wyoming, it’s called Hidden Valley.

Michelle Visage: Oh I know it well I do.

RuPaul: And so you know it’s akin to Dolly Parton’s relationship with Carl.

Michelle Visage: Don’t you think that the distance is what makes you stronger?

RuPaul: It does although I’ve got to tell you, when we are together we’re together 24/7 and he’s someone who I can be with 24/7. He doesn’t get on my nerves and that’s crazy coming from me.

Michelle Visage: Trust me I know, I know how you are.

RuPaul: I’m not a people person really.

Michelle Visage: Well I wouldn’t say that, I just think that you’re quiet and in order for you to be around people, there’s a set of rules or not rules but they have to pass the test unbeknown to them and I get it. But there are times where I have to leave because my husband is getting on my nerves, but we spend every waking minute together, he helps me with my career, we’re rearing our children together he’s their coach, they’re hurdlers, we’re together all the time so when I travel I think that makes our relationship stronger. We talk every day, we Skype every day, I don’t want people to think “Well she’s not saying the right thing about marriage.”. I love my husband, I do not cheat on my husband he is my best friend, but at the same time my time away from him makes it stronger. Because when I come home the sex is great, we’re having a great time, it’s 17 years.

RuPaul: That’s a long time.

Michelle Visage: It is and I think it’s important for you to have your me time, people loose themselves in their relationships and that’s where everything starts to go wrong. You wouldn’t have a problem? RuPaul: No, he’s a man, I’m a man.

Michelle Visage: You’re both cool?

RuPaul: We’re both cool with it the thing is this, I know based on my history with him that there is not another MF in this world that he would feel as crazy about as me. He knows that I feel that way about him so nothing is going to change, not no little two piece chicken dinner over here or a fish fry somewhere, or anything. He’s always going to come home for supper.

Michelle Visage: I love that, a lot of people didn’t know that about you and it’s just recently that you’ve been talking about George, I don’t think there’s been a need to talk about it.

RuPaul: No one has really cared, it’s just what it is.

Michelle Visage: I think people care but there’s been a rumor for years and you know this rumor, when they talk to me they’re like “I heard Ru was married with children like to a woman.”.

RuPaul: I’ve heard that too.

Michelle Visage: “I’d be the only woman that he’d ever be able to handle.”.

RuPaul: Exactly.

Michelle Visage: “Trust me it’s not there, Ru is gay.”.

RuPaul: Well there’s our little relationship talk and you guys have been so lovely to join us for our podcast What’s the Tee. Don’t forget to subscribe because that’s very important to us and join us every other week so have fun kids.