28040 EXTENSIONS OF REMARKS October 17, 1983 EXTENSIONS OF REMARKS LEGAL SERVICES CORPORATION It is our opinion, based upon a careful it is necessary for employment or for medi­ REGULATIONS SEEK TO SIDE­ review of the proposed regulations, that cal-related treatment. TRACK SERVICES TO SENIORS their implementation would result in a 5. Counting assets of family members: By severe and unacceptable alteration or elimi­ requiring that the assets of all household nation of legal services to the poor elderly. members be counted under Section 1611.6, HON. MARIO BIAGGI Such action is directly contradictory to both the proposed rules provide a number of dis­ OF NEW YORK the spirit and intent of the 1977 amend­ incentives for family members to care for el­ IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ments to the Act which specifically state derly relatives at home if they also seek that priority for services shall be given to legal services. Monday, October 17, 1983 the elderly and the handicapped. In our es­ 6. Verification: The requirements set forth e Mr. BIAGGI. Mr. Speaker, I wish to timation, if the proposed regulations are im­ in the proposed rules would impede legal bring to the attention of my col­ plemented, over one-half and as many as services by creating an excessive paperwork leagues an ongoing battle which has two-thirds of the elderly poor could be burden upon legal services attorneys. The eliminated from legal services. verification requirements that allow all cli­ been waged with the Legal Services In testimony before the Subcommittee on ents information to be made available to the Corporation proposed eligibility guide­ Human Services of the House Select Com­ Legal Services Corporation not only forces lines issued on August 29, 1983. These mittee on Aging on September 22, it was re­ attorneys to violate client confidentiality guidelines seek to restrict access to vealed that the proposed regulations depart codes , but also to divert staff time to deter­ legal services by imposing guidelines dramatically from existing eligibility re­ mining complex eligibility criteria. which, in my eyes, and in the eyes of quirements for the two major income sup­ In sum, we believe that if these regula­ many, directly violate not only the port programs for the elderly: Food Stamps tions were to become final---either in whole spirit, but the very intent of the Legal and Supplemental Security Income . or in part-they would violate the spirit, if This inconsistency will have the effect of not the very intent of the Legal Services Services Corporation Act. eliminating the very same clients from the Corporation Act. Specifically, we feel that On September 22, the House Sub­ program that the program was created to these new eligibility requirements are in committee on Human Services of the serve. In addition, the new assets test will direct conflict with the specific mission of Select Committee on Aging, which I require local legal service providers to the Corporation under Sections 1002(3) and Chair, conducted a hearing to examine endure an excessive paperwork burden to 1007 <2> to provide services to "any the impact of the proposed regulations verify assets of potential clients. Such an person financially unable to afford legal as­ upon the elderly and the disabled. My administrative burden would only serve to sistance. We call upon you to withdraw the special interest in this issue stems divert critically-needed resources. August 29, 1983 regulations. There is no rea­ from my authorship, in the 1977 There are specific provisions within the sonable explanation why the Corporation, proposed regulations

which we feel would should undertake such a radical reversal of Corporation Act, for priority services seriously impact upon the elderly. These eligibility requirements at this time. We to the elderly and the disabled. The provisions include, but are not limited to: intend to assure that adequate funding is proposed regulations, in their original 1. Group Representation: The application provided to the Corporation to protect the form, would have diminished substan­ of an assets test to members of an organiza­ right of poor citizens of this Nation to equal tially, if not completely eliminated tion designed to protect groups of poor and justice under the law. access to legal services by the very frail elderly is a misapplication of law. We are also including, as part of our offi­ same people the act is charged to There are many organizations, such as cial comments on the proposed regulations, serve. those which represent institutionalized el­ testimony received by the Human Services derly, who are not composed of potential cli­ Subcommittee on this matter. We ask that The subcommittee received exten­ ents, but instead, represent those in institu­ you make this testimony part of our official sive testimony from not only the Cor­ tions that cannot speak for themselves. position. poration but from a number of organi­ Eliminating group access to legal services by Sincerely, zations which represent the elderly imposing an asset test upon the group does MARio BIAGGI, and the handicapped. By our own esti­ a direct disservice to the very people living Chainnan. mates, legal services would be denied in such homes that cannot represent them­ OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, to at least one-half if not two-thirds of selves. This provision reflects not only a Ranking Minority Member. the eligible elderly population had the misunderstanding of the role of such groups BARNEY FRANK, in protecting the elderly, but more impor­ Member of Congress. regulations been finalized in their tantly, is a direct attack upon the right of CLAUDINE SCHNEIDER, original form. As a result of the hear­ the poorest of the poor elderly to be afford- Member of Congress. ing, I was joined by a number of my ed equal justice under the law. · LEs AuCoiN, colleagues, including the ranking Re­ 2. Home equity not to exceed $15,000: This Member of Congress. publican member of our subcommit­ provision ignores the fact that the majority STAN LUNDINE, Member of Congress. tee, 0LYMPIA SNOWE, in calling for the of the elderly who live in their own homes complete withdrawal of the proposed have also owned them for some time. The EDWARD RoYBAL, regulations. A copy of our comments most recent housing survey notes that 88% Member of Congress. to the Corporation on the proposed of all low-income homeowners own homes On September 28, Mr. Donald P. nationwide valued above $15,000, including Bogard, president of the Legal Serv­ regulations are included here for the 3,095,000 who are over 65. benefit of my colleagues. ices Corporation, sent the subcommit­ 3. IRA's and Keogh plans: Inclusion of tee the accompanying letter which in­ SELECT COJlDI[I'rl'EE ON AGING, income from such government-protected re­ SUBC011D4I'ITEE ON HUMAN SERVICES, tirement plans in determining eligibility dicates his intent to revise substantial Washington, D.C., September 28, 1983. contradicts all incentives provided to the el­ sections of the proposed rules. For the Mr. JOHN c. MEYER, derly to establish and contribute to such benefit of my colleagues, the letter fol­ Deputy General Counsel, Office of General plans. lows: Counsel, Legal Services Corporation, 4. Maximum equity of $4,500 for one or LEGAL SERVICES CORPORATION, Washington, D.C. more licensed vehicles: This provision over­ Washington, D.C., September 28, 1983. DEAR MR. MEYER: We are writing to pro­ looks the fact that many working, low­ Hon. MARio BIAGGI, vide you with our comments on the pro­ income seniors would be forced to choose House of Representatives, posed regulations addressing client eligibil­ between working and unemployment in Washington, D. C. ity published by the Legal Services Corpora­ order to obtain legal services. Furthermore, DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: I want to thank you tion on August 29, 1983 (48 Fed. Reg. 39086). the SSI program totally excludes one car if for the time and attention you and your

e This "bullet" symbol identifies statements or insertions which are not spoken by the Member on the floor. October 17, 1983 EXTENSIONS OF REMARKS 28041 Committee devoted to the Legal Services consideration by the Corporation. that they do not have the resources to hire Corporation last week. After carefully con­ These issues-both addressed exten­ private attorneys. Our extensive experience sidering the suggestions you made, I have sively in our hearing, are the issue of with such advocacy organizations, which decided to accept your most important rec­ group representation and the public primarily exist to protect the legal rights of ommendations and am redrafting the pro­ poor elderly and institutionalized individ­ posed eligibility guidelines to include the benefits exemption. Current regula­ uals, conclusively demonstrates that these following provisions: tions allow for advocacy groups to groups are not composed of "rich members" 1. Local programs will establish the specif­ retain legal services attorneys on as the proposed regulations contend. ic guidelines for determining eligibility. behalf of individuals or groups which Rather, these groups are composed of con­ 2. Special consideration must be given to they represent. A perfect example of cerned citizens who recognize that those the needs of the elderly, institutionalized this are those groups which exist to who cannot help themselves, such as nurs­ and handicapped. protect the right of nursing home resi­ ing home residents, must retain access to 3. A client's equity in a home may be ex­ dents-who by definition are poor and legal service in order to protect the rights of cluded from the assets considered by the those who cannot help themselves. local program in establishing eligibility. who are clearly unable to retain access to counsel. The proposed LSC regula­ Public benefits exception: Section 1611.4 4. Equity in work related equipment need of the proposals eliminates a critical portion not disqualify a client. tions would bar advocacy groups from of existing regulations which have been in 5. Impediments to an individual's access to retaining attorneys on behalf of resi­ effect since 1976 and which make those re­ the assets of the family or household must dents based on the erroneous assump­ ceiving public benefits automatically eligible be taken into account. tion that members of such advocacy for legal services. This was primarily done 6. The ceiling on maximum allowable organizations may have their own to assure a minimal amount of administra­ assets may be waived by the program direc­ money to hire attorneys. The absurdi­ tive "red tape" would be placed upon local tor. ty of this assumption speaks volumes service providers. It also underscores a fun­ I am enclosing a draft of the changes damental aspect of the Legal Services Cor­ which will be submitted to the Board as about the lack of understanding of the role of such organizations on behalf of poration Act itself: if someone is poor part of our staff recommendations. enough to be receiving public benefits, such Sincerely, the poor and institutionalized. as food stamps or SSI, they certainly should DONALD P. BOGARD, A second aspect of the proposed reg­ be eligible for legal services. To deny, as the President. u1ations which remain in issue is the proposed regulations suggest, these individ­ provision in existing regulations which uals from automatic eligibility with the jus­ STAFF RECOMMENDATION/PROPOSED REVI­ automatically grants eligibility to SIONS 45 CFR 1611 WITH OGC TECHNICAL tification that "a person receiving govern­ anyone who currently receives public ment income maintenance payments may AMENDMENTS benefits, including SSI and food have more disposable income than one re­ Section 1611.5(b)(2)(D) should be revised ceiving income solely from employment" is, to read: The existence of assets, including stamps. The subcommittee's hearing revealed that little thought had been in our opinion, irresponsible and misleading. liquid and non-liquid, which are available to More importantly, this statement reflects a the applicant and are in excess of the asset given by the LSC to income guidelines basic lack of understanding about those in­ ceiling set by the recipient pursuant to Sec­ for SSI and food stamp programs-the dividuals on public assistance and attempts tion 1611.6. most important benefits to the poor to create two categories of poor-those who Section 1611.6 Asset Ceilings should be elderly-when the proposed regula­ are "worthy" because they work and those amended to read as follows: tions were drafted. Yet, as the Sep­ who are "unworthy" because they do not By January 30, 1984, and annually there­ tember 28 letter from the LSC states, work. after, the governing body of the recipient consideration was not given to the We believe that there was ample evidence shall establish guidelines incorporating spe­ presented at our September 22 hearing to cific and reasonable asset ceilings, including public benefits exemption-despite the fact that its very intent was to mini­ warrant withdrawal of these two additional both liquid and non-liquid assets, to be uti­ aspects of the proposed regulations. If, in lized in determining eligibility for services. mize redtape and to preserve resources fact, the Corporation has conducted an The guidelines shall consider the economy by providing for the public benefits analysis or study that would refute our posi­ of the service area and the relative cost-of­ exemption. As a resu1t, the subcom­ tion on these two sections of the proposed living of low-income persons so as to ensure mittee sent a subsequent letter to the the availability of services to those in the rules, we would like to be advised of this greatest economic and legal need. LSC outlining the remaining issues fact. If the Corporation has made these rec­ The guidelines shall be consistent with with the proposed regulations as we ommendations without benefit of systemat­ the recipient's priorities established in ac­ see them. ic analysis of their impact upon the poor el­ cordance with 45 CFR 1620 and special con­ SELECT COMMITTEE ON AGING, SUB­ derly and disabled communities, we respect­ sideration shall be given to the legal needs COMMITTEE ON HUMAN SERVICES, fully request that you withdraw these re­ of the elderly, institutionalized, and handi­ Washington, D.C., September 30, 1983. maining sections prior to the October 4 capped. Mr. DONALD P. BOGARD, public meeting of the Board of Directors. Assets considered shall include all liquid President, Legal Services Corporation, The promulgation of these proposals in and non-liquid assets of all persons who are Washington, D.C. their current form would deny justice to a resident members of a family unit, except DEAR MR. BoGARD: We appreciate your group of citizens who otherwise would be that a recipient may exclude the principal letter of September 28, 1983 which indicated unable to obtain legal assistance in the residence of a client. The guidelines shall your decision to revise selected portions of event their rights are challenged. take into account impediments to an indi­ the proposed client eligibility regulations With kllldest regards, we are, vidual's access to assets of the family unit or published in the Federal Register on August MARIO BIAGGI, household. 29, 1983. Chairman. Reasonable equity value in work-related Your attention to our comments and rec­ OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, equipment which is essential to the employ­ ommendations from last week's hearing was Ranking Minority Member. ment or self-employment of an applicant or most encouraging. However, we remain The LSC Board of Directors planned member of a family unit, shall not be uti­ deeply concerned over two remaining issues a public hearing on October 4 for the lized to disqualify an applicant, provided in the proposed regulations which were not expressed purpose of discussing the that the owner is attempting to produce addressed in your letter. We assume these income consistent with its fair market value. proposed regulations are under active con­ proposed regulations. This meeting The governing body may establish author­ sideration by your agency and urge you to was canceled and has yet to be re­ ity for the project director to waive the ceil­ withdraw those remaining sections which scheduled. In the interim, I plan to ings on maximum allowable assets in unusu­ deal with the following areas: vigorously monitor the activities of al or extremely meritorious situations. Group Representation: Current regula­ the Corporation to assure that the While I applaud the Corporation for tions (45 CFR Sec. 161.5(c)) require that all concerns of Congress are adequately groups seeking legal assistance certify that relayed to all the members of the their attention to our concerns, I they lack funds to obtain private counsel. remain deeply troubled over both the We believe that the proposed revisions to Board who will have to make final de­ vague references to revision of the this section of the regulations in fact mis­ terminations on these proposed rules. proposed rules as well as two impor­ represent the intent of the law since the or­ I stand by my original call for the tant issues which remain under active ganizations in question must already certify complete withdrawal of these eligibll- 28042 EXTENSIONS OF REMARKS October 17, 1983 ity regulations. They are misdirected, EPA. Even more damning, there is as yet no helps keep letters and money pouring into badly conceived, and equally as impor­ strong evidence that emissions from coal­ environmentalists' headquarters. Politicians tant, they are being proposed by a fired plants in the Midwest are in fact "kill­ have been learning, through the move­ Corporation that does not even have a ing" lakes, fish and forests in the Northeast ment's success in dispatching Anne McGill and, hence, that spending billions of taxpay­ Burford and James Watt, not to make light fully confirmed membership. The very er and/or ratepayer dollars to clean up the of even its more irrational demands. A Na­ fact that the LSC maintains business emissions would make a difference. This tional Governors' Association task force, as usual without a fully confirmed latest "environmental" campaign FISH AND ACID uniformly with the methods used to reach this experiment? RAIN this conclusion and with the conclusion David Stockman, no slouch at politics as itself." it added: "The conclusion of a linear well as numbers, sees through this wasteful removal mechanism for sulfur dioxide is not game. It's about time a few other people did HON. TOM CORCORAN supportable." as well.e OF ILLINOIS Tennessee Valley Authority scientists re­ IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES cently investigated the causes of fish kills in trout-rearing facilities near Raven Fork TRIBUTE TO BUCKS COUNTY Monday, October 17, 1983 Creek in North Carolina. It found that CITIZENS e Mr. CORCORAN. Mr. Speaker, in water runoff from the highly acid soils of an October 12 editorial, the Wall surrounding forests was the culprit, not Street Journal discussed various man-made acid rain. Similarly, a study by HON. PETER H. KOSTMA YER schemes being proposed to control Everett and Associates, an independent re­ OF PENNSYLVANIA search group in Maryland, found that for­ IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES acid rain. According to David Stock­ estry practices in the Adirondacks are in­ man, the Director of the Office of creasing soil acidity and that water percolat­ Monday, October 17, 1983 Management and Budget, one such ing through the soil is carrying the acids plan would end up costing $6,000 for e Mr. KOSTMAYER. Mr. Speaker, I into the lakes and streams. am every pound of fish supposedly saved. Despite the claims about acid rain killing honored to pay tribute to two out­ The cost for another plan is $66,000 forests, there has been no damage to more standing Bucks County, Pa., citizens, per pound of fish. highly sensitive plant life in the Adiron­ Dorothy and David Dickstein. Both I have communicated my concerns dacks, according to botanist E. H. Ketch­ Dorothy and David lead very active about the potential high cost of any ledge, who has studied the region for a lives in several areas of community in­ quarter century. "The fragile alpine summit volvement. acid rain control program, particularly vegetation . . . does not appear to exhibit in the Midwest, to the President and Brooklyn-born Dorothy Dickstein, a the slightest damage or deterioration or de­ registered nurse, has been an excep­ others. The points made in the Jour­ cline purported by some spokesmen to be nal editorial further emphasize the killing the more complex and thus more tional contributor to area Jewish ac­ importance of careful consideration stable spruce-fir forests immediately down­ tivities. She has been vice president of being given by the administration and slope," he says. "This most fragile of all eco­ the N.E. Chapter of the American the Congress prior to moving ahead systems in New York State has escaped the Jewish Congress and president of the with any acid rain control program. postulated damage widely heralded else­ Levittown Chapter. Mrs. Dickstein has Mr. Speaker, for the benefit of our where about these mountains." served as president of the Women's Di­ Claims that acid rain is killing red spruce vision of the combined Jewish Appeal colleagues, I would like to include in trees in Vermont aren't supported by the and as the president of the Federa­ the REcORD at this point the text of data, according to an analysis by California­ tion, the board of directors of the the October 12 Wall Street Journal based Environmental Research & Technolo­ editorial entitled, "Gold gy Inc. It blamed an extreme drought in the Jewish Family Service, Congregation Fish." mid-1960s for slowing the trees' reproduc­ Beth-El Synagogue, and a board tion. member and membership chairperson The article follows: of the Congregation Beth-El Sister­ [From the Wall Street Journal, Oct. 12, Edward C. Krug and Charles R. Frink of 1983] the Connecticut Agricultural Experiment . In addition, she has been chosen Station, writing in Science magazine, point most deservedly as the Congregation GOLD (PLATED) FISH to changes in land use, soil-formation proc­ Beth-El Woman of the Year. David Stockman, director of the Office of esses and vegetative succession as causes for David Dickstein, a Philadelphia Management and Budget, has calculated increased acidification. "Natural processes that a $21 billion "acid rain control" pro­ of acidification must be more carefully con­ native and graduate of the University gram recently advanced by Environmental sidered in assessing benefits expected from of Pennsylvania at age 18, has been a Protection Agency Administrator William proposed reductions in emissions of oxides leader in the community since he Ruskelshaus would put a price tag of $6,000 of sulfur and nitrogen," they concluded. moved to Levittown after service in a pound on every fish supposedly saved. But politics, not science, clearly is driving World War II and a short stint as a And if you take some of the more extreme the acid-rain campaign. In true Madison Government employee. He has been proposals, the price of fish in Northeast Avenue fashion, acid rain sells, implying as president of Chaim Weitzman Chapter lakes goes up to $66,000 a pound. it does some new environmental horror that of the American Jewish Federation Mr. Stockman's figures help to illustrate might cause your skin to peel off in a rain what a fish story the whole acid-rain issue shower. At a time when most Americans re­ and president and director for the has become. The Ruskelshaus plan repre­ alize the air and water are getting cleaner Lower Bucks Realtors Multiple Listing sents the total abandonment of cost-benefit and want economic sense brought to bear on Service. Mr. Dickstein has served on analysis by zealots inside and outside the government regulations, the acid-rain scare the board of directors of the Jewish October 17, 1983 EXTENSIONS OF REMARKS 28043 Family Service and Congregation TRIBUTE TO CHUMS Fourth. Phone-a-patient and visit-a­ Beth-El. patient programs to let cancer pa­ I join the Jewish National Fund and HON. MARIO BIAGGI tients/survivors know somebody cares. the Dickstein's children in paying trib­ OF NEW YORK Fifth. Pen pal program to enable ute to the commitment of Dorothy IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES cancer patients/survivors to corre­ spond with each other. and David Dickstein to the Jewish and Monday, October 17, 1983 humanitarian causes they have sup­ Sixth. Campaign against discrimina­ ported. I was proud to have attended • Mr. BIAGGI. Mr. Speaker, I would tion of cancer patients/survivors in the testimonial dinner for the Dick­ like to call to the attention of my col­ employment, insurance, and other leagues the outstanding progress that areas. steins last night at Congregation Beth­ has been made by CHUMS e of war. I asked him to let me help him. He apartment because I could no longer afford denied that anything was different and house payments and the upkeep. My hus­ reaffirmed his devotion to me and to our band's second wife is entitled to my GI bill TIMOTHY SCHMIDT, NATIONAL family. Shortly afterward, he was ordered to to further her education if she wishes. I BLIND WORKER OF THE YEAR Camp Lejeune and, for the first time in our have no money for any type of training. I married life, refused to let me accompany now work at a discount department store him. I was baffled and hurt. Because he was near where I live for minimum wage. When HON. ELDON RUDD selected to attend the Staff College in Nor­ I am sick, I am not entitled to use the Naval folk, his stay at Lejeune was short. He came Hospital. My husband's second wife of OF ARIZONA back home. When he graduated, he was as­ thirty-nine days has my medical privileges. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES signed to the Naval Base in Norfolk. Against That is my story, But mine is not an iso­ Monday, October 17, 1983 my wishes, he moved into the BOQ. Again, I lated case. was deeply hurt. Was there another woman? The Committee for Equality and Justice e Mr. RUDD. Mr. Speaker, I would He denied it. for the Military Wife has evaluated the gov­ like to share with my colleagues in the I now know that during those years he ernment benefits my husband's second wife House of Representatives the story of was involved with a very, very young of thirty-nine days received. The total that Timothy Schmidt, a remarkable man woman. I now know that their relationship the taxpayer will pay out to this woman is lasted several years. Yet, my husband did who served a little more than one month as who truly an inspiration to all who not ask for a divorce until a year before he a military wife is more than two and one­ have ever faced despair or adversity. died. That year, when he became ill, he half million dollars, or $2,589,528 to be pre­ Timothy Schmidt, who I am proud urged, he cajoled, he insisted that we di­ cise school he was diagnosed as having Retinitis WILL THE COWS COME HOME? Q. In this public dispute between Mr. Pigmentosa and his vision rapidly deterio­ Feldstein and Regan, has the president sug­ rated. Timothy persevered and earned his HON. BARNEY FRANK gested whose side he's on? high school diploma. He also earned letters OF MASSACHUSETTS A. No. I think they both agree on policy. I for managing the football, basketball, and IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES think it's just a matter of debate on wheth­ baseball teams. er deficits do count. The president's view on Mter graduation Timothy attended a Monday, October 17, 1983 that is known. He prefers lower deficits and Junior college but he was not happy. He • Mr. FRANK. Mr. Speaker, today he prefers that Congress act to lower defi­ withdrew from college and became totally and for the past few months, a very se­ cits. dependent on his family for food and shel­ A: No. He's never been wrong. ter. His self-confidence had so dwindled, he rious debate has raged in Washington Q: Does that mean we could bring the in­ felt the public transportation system was over the importance of deficits in our terest rate down even further by tripling too complicated to figure out and he de­ national economy. The contestants in the deficit? pended on his family for transportation too. this debate have fundamentally diver­ A: Just noting that Treasury rate bills yes­ Finally, Timothy realized he could not con­ gent views about the impact of deficits terday morning were 9.04 percent, down tinue existing this way. He wanted to live on interest rates. Indeed, rarely in our from 9.19 at the end of last week and 9.21 life rather than watch it pass him by, so he history have we seen such a head-on on the week ending Aug. 31. And you know visited the State Vocational Rehabilitation clash of positions on such a fundamen­ the three-month Treasury bills have fallen Division. Within a month Timothy was re­ substantially in recent weeks and many ceiving on-the-job training as a teacher's tal economic subject. What is particu­ economists believe the stage is set for a fur­ aide in the Work Activities Program at Ari­ larly interesting is that the contest­ ther drop in interest rates. zona Industries for the Blind . ants in this debate are both members Q: I'm confused a bit . . . What is the posi­ As Timothy's responsibilities on the job of the Reagan administration: with tion, or is there one? increased, so did his self-confidence and his Chairman Feldstein of the Council of A: I just stated it to you . . . that we want desire to become independent. He tackled Economic Advisers arguing that defi­ lower deficits through reductions in federal the public transportation system and cits cause interest rates to be higher spending. became such a competent traveler that he than they otherwise would be, while Q: Thus far there doesn't seem to be began assisting his co-workers. Timothy pre­ much link betwen rising deficits and lower pared for the day when he would live on his Treasury Secretary Regan denies that interest rates. Are you indicating that might own by taking instruction in home manage­ any such relationship can be shown to change? ment, including budgeting, shopping and exist. A: I'm not indicating anything. cooking. Timothy was promoted to occupa­ Many people have been led by this Q: Larry, you're giving conflicting signals tional therapy aide and used his sports ex­ debate to ask a simple question: With here. You have Feldstein giving one set of perience to provide exercise training for the which of his major economic advisers signals and Regan giving another. agency's clients. does President Reagan agree? Alas, A: And what were the words out of Timothy's determination had no limits Mr. Speaker, it is a simple question to mouth? That economists can debate this till until the summer of 1981 when he required the cows come home. surgery to remove an enlarged spleen. The which there is not only no simple Q: They're your economists and they operation was debilitating and further com­ answer, but, according to the Presi­ should be speaking with one voice. plicated by infection. Timothy thought he dent's official press spokesperson, it is A: Reasonable men have differing opin­ might never be able to return to work and a question to which there is apparent­ ions and the president has asked for differ­ his future was bleak. ly no coherent answer at all. ing opinions. But Timothy had pulled himself up by his On September 18, the Washington Q: What is the administration position? bootstraps before and he was ready to do it Post printed excerpts from a tran­ A: Bob . you'll have to see. Q: Un unison] ... the cows come home. As a cosponsor of this measure I be­ Q: So there is no administration position Q: I want to take a stab ... lieve that it offers a rational and on linkage between deficits and interest A: Paul : Can I take one last of eligible individuals being thrown off the question either? shot? If the president gets lots of advice and the roles without recourse. A: I don't know that it can be resolved. he says he doesn't want yes men ... at a Q: the White House saying ... that certain point he has to form an opinion. In my own State of New York, Gov­ the administration doesn't know whether Clearly this is an issue [on which] one ernor Cuomo led the Nation in stop­ lower interest rates will result if we lower would think he would have formed an opin­ ping all reviews of those on the dis­ deficits as the result of lowering federal ion. All we're asking is 'Where does the ability rolls until a more spending? That's the bottom line of what president come down?' method can be adopted. Since the an­ you just said. A: He doesn't have to have an opinion on nouncement by the State's depart­ A: You know, all the economic theories, this in order to go after reducing deficits ment of social services last July that Saul, are subject to interpretation and, through reducing federal spending and tell­ the "legal and moral obligations of the really, you have to take a historical perspec­ ing Congress we want to cut this federal tive. spending. disabled were not being met," 11 other Q: If I'm not mistaken, it's the administra­ Q: What is the purpose in cutting federal States have followed suit and banned tion position that those budget deficits do spending? further review of beneficiaries. This threaten economic recovery, [isn't] it? A: Balance the budget, reduce the deficit. national outcry was a result of 374,000 A: I don't know that you ever heard the Q: And the reason is? people being removed from the disabil­ president say it. You might have heard A: Paul, how many times have I got to tell ity rolls since March 1981 when the some of his advisers say it. you? Cool it.e Social Security Administration an­ Q: What's the policy here of having Feld­ nounced a crackdown on the program stein going out and saying one thing and Regan going out and saying another thing? DISABILITY REFORM MEASURE to implement a 1980 law which man­ A: You can't even pronounce his

11-059 0-87-28 (Pt. 20)