This Is a Complete Transcript of the Oral History Interview with Merrill Dunlop (CN50, T2) for the Billy Graham Center Archives
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This is a complete transcript of the oral history interview with Merrill Dunlop (CN50, T2) for the Billy Graham Center Archives. No spoken words which were recorded are omitted. In a very few cases, the transcribers could not understand what was said, in which case “[unclear]” or “[?] were inserted. Also, grunts, verbal hesitations such as “ah” or “um” were usually omitted. Readers of this transcript should remember that this is a transcript of spoken English, which follows a different rhythm and even rule than written English. Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of thought within the sentence of the speaker. Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of an incomplete sentence. ( ) Word in parentheses are asides made by the speaker. [ ] Words in brackets are comments made by the transcriber. This transcript was created by Robert Shuster in July, 1989. Please note: This oral history interview expresses the personal memories and opinions of the interviewee and does not necessarily represent the views or policies of the Billy Graham Center Archives or Wheaton College. © 2017. The Billy Graham Center Archives. All rights reserved. This transcript may be reused with the following publication credit: Used by permission of the Billy Graham Center Archives, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL. BGC Archives CN 50, T2 Transcripts - Page 2 Collection 50, Tape 2. Oral history interview with Merrill Dunlop by Robert Shuster on June 1, 1979. SHUSTER: This is an interview...this is an interview for the Archives of the Billy Graham Center of Mr. Merrill Dunlop. The interview was conducted by archivist Robert Shuster at Mr. Dunlop's home at 712 Fairoaks Street in Oak Park on June 1 at 9:30 am. DUNLOP: Well, I try to be respectful. That's why I put a coat on [laughs.. I didn't have one on before. SHUSTER: I.... DUNLOP: Either I should put one on or make you take yours off, make yourself.... SHUSTER: Well, whichever is more comfortable. DUNLOP: Make you feel at home anyway. SHUSTER: Well, I do. I was...thought we might start with a brief sketch of Mr. A. M. Johnson, who I understand was a close friend of Paul Rader's? DUNLOP: It could be somewhat brief sketch, I guess. Now is this set up the way it's supposed to be? [ Referring to audio recording.] SHUSTER: Yes. DUNLOP: Is this close enough to me? SHUSTER: Yes, it's fine. DUNLOP: I speak just this way? SHUSTER: Yeah. Yeah, it’s fine. DUNLOP: Seems strange, because usually I expect a microphone to be a lot closer than that. [Break in recording.] SHUSTER: So, Mr. A. M. Johnson was a president of an insurance company? DUNLOP: Yes, Mr. A. M. Johnson headed the National Life Insurance Company for many years as his...its president. And of course that was the big insurance company that went down the drain in that terrific crash that happened back there in the late days just before the Tabernacle went under from bankruptcy. Mr. A. M. Johnson had been a very close friend of Paul Rader for many years. In fact, he was the one who personally paid Paul Rader's salary for several years so that Paul Rader © 2017. The Billy Graham Center Archives. All rights reserved. This transcript may be reused with the following publication credit: Used by permission of the Billy Graham Center Archives, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL. BGC Archives CN 50, T2 Transcripts - Page 3 would not be having to appeal to the congregations in the Tabernacle for his personal support but rather to put it into the missionary projects and other things that he was interested in projecting and promoting. Mr. A. M. Johnson attended the Tabernacle and his wife was very prominent there. In fact during the...during the days when Paul Rader had the...the broadcast throughout the Chicago area, beginning at ten o'clock on Sunday mornings and running right straight through without interruption until midnight every Sunday. These hours were segmented into half hour periods or an hour period or even fifteen minute periods. And Mrs. A.M. Johnson had a full hour on Sundays. She wanted that because she was quite a Bible teacher. And she had a very large ladies class. I suppose it was attended by at least somewhere between fifty and seventy-five ladies every Sunday in the Tabernacle, in her one class alone. She wanted to have an enlarged ministry, so she took this whole hour. I think it was about from two to three pm on Sunday afternoon. SHUSTER: What was her first name? DUNLOP: [Pauses] Oh. [Pauses.] Give me a moment to think on that. [Pauses.] Esca...escapes me now and I should know it but I just can't think of it for the moment, but if I think of it, I'll let you know. SHUSTER: What does the A. M. stand for in A. M. Johnson. DUNLOP: Albert, Albert M. Johnson was his name. She was a...she was a very lovely little lady. Short and sort of...slightly buxom, but always with a happy way of meeting people and a very, very knowledgeable Bible teacher. SHUSTER: Did...did he support other evangelical...or other evangelists in Chicago or in the country? DUNLOP: I do know... SHUSTER: Or organizations? DUNLOP: …I do know this, he was very much interested in helping the Wycliffe Translators way back. Because he was a good friend of the...of the founder of that Wyc...Wycliffe Translators which was Cameron Townsend. And I know that he helped Mr. Townsend and I think he had provision for some of his...his funds to go to Wycliffe at the...at the...the eventuality of his passing, you see. And I assume that that's what happened. And he, as I said, had taken Paul Rader's personal support. And he attended the services himself. I knew him personally. He was a very tall, slender man, white haired and I used to think of him as elderly but I can't remember just how old he was back at that time. I...I suppose he was in his seventies. But I spent some time with him out in Death Valley. He had the...he had the Death Valley castle. He was a man of great wealth and built the Death Valley Castle, which is called Scotty's Castle. And he was a great friend of Scotty. Have you heard of Scotty? SHUSTER: I haven't heard of Scotty. I've heard of Death Valley Castle. © 2017. The Billy Graham Center Archives. All rights reserved. This transcript may be reused with the following publication credit: Used by permission of the Billy Graham Center Archives, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL. BGC Archives CN 50, T2 Transcripts - Page 4 DUNLOP: Scotty was the not only legendary character but the actual character around whom hundreds of legends had come. That he was the man who had discovered a secret gold mine and had great wealth and he built this beautiful [pauses] palace, you might call it, mansion out in the heart of Death Valley there and had a swimming pool and...and all kinds of extravaganzas. And A. M. Johnson of course was frequently there and actually what happened was A. M. Johnson was the moneyed man behind Scotty. And Scotty had at one time was supposed to have saved A. M. Johnson's life and there was a real mutual understanding and appreciation of each other. And A. M. Johnson financed Scotty in many of these things. But he just had a great joy out of the legends that were just constantly being manufactured by the news media and constantly the reporters were there, always trying to find out stories about Death Valley Scotty. So I was out there, spend three days with Mr. A. M. Johnson. My wife was with me one time. We had a lovely time. We got to know Mr. A. M. Johnson quite well. His wife was not.... Oh. Bessie. SHUSTER: Bessie. DUNLOP: Her name was Bessie. He...he kept us up until all...wee hours of the morning and sitting out under those...on the porches there in that Death Valley Castle, looking up at the sky and the stars. He could just spin yarns and tell us all kinds of things. Looked as if you could just reach up and touch those stars. And Scotty would be there, he would come. And he would spin his tales. He was a most colorful character. And I took their pictures together one time. But I remember Mr. Johnson said when he was speaking of the hours that he and...he was keeping my wife and me and Paul Rader's daughter up, he said, "If Bessie were here, I wouldn't be doing this" [laughs]. So her name came back to me, you see. Am I off the track now, Bob, or...? SHUSTER: Well, no, I wanted to ask you also.... We have came across in a book that A. M. Johnson was a supporter and backer of Aimee Semple McPherson. Did you know anything of that connection or...? DUNLOP: A connection between A. M. Johnson and Aimee Semple McPherson. SHUSTER: I know that Paul Rader also spoke once or twice in... DUNLOP: Paul Rader spent three months there... SHUSTER: ...Angelus Temple. DUNLOP: ...preaching in Angelus Temple. I don't know about any possible connection between A. M. Johnson and Aimee Semple McPherson. I met and knew Mrs. McPherson. In fact, I arranged some of her songs for her.