Thought Leadership

De-gendering science: Alice Roberts on engaging everyone in research Professor Alice Roberts is one of the most recognisable faces in mentoring. But I think there is a wider, deeper science today, appearing regularly on television programmes since the problem which relates to the structure of academic jobs, and which was picked up by early 2000s and bringing subjects as diverse as dinosaurs and ancient the Science and Technology Committee’s human anatomy to a huge audience. As such, she is well placed to be 2014 report on Women in Scientific Careers: the first Professor of Public Engagement with Science at the University current career structures and provision of of Birmingham. In this interview, Alice tells us more about inspiring parental leave do not promote equality. One pertinent quote stood out: “the academic people to engage with the research carried out at the university and career system was developed when most on encouraging academics to connect with a community beyond the faculty members were men (with stay-at- university walls. home wives)”. If we are to achieve anything near equality, we need to make it easier to share parental leave and childcare and look for ways to support women (and men!) s Professor of Public and raising the profile of engagement within coming back to work after periods of leave Engagement and Science at the the university. We focus on interdisciplinary – that sort of flexible approach would help University of Birmingham, Alice projects – bringing together academics from with other types of caring too. Part-time Roberts is committed to her different disciplines to spark new ideas and work needs to be seen as both normal and role as a figurehead in science, perspectives, and working with partners valuable. Many employers are not grasping notA just in engaging, but involving the general outside the university, including museums. the opportunities for flexible working that public in science and research. More than modern communications technology offers that, she would like to see a diversification in As well as that strategic role at the University, us. For those parts of jobs which were the demographic of career scientists. I lecture undergraduates on anatomy and previously office-based – we just don’t embryology, and engage with research need to be tied to those rooms and desks any In this interview with Research Features, Alice in biological anthropology, exploring more. It’s up to employers to make sure that discusses gender roles at work, and how links between form and function, and the there is support for achieving a good work-life more equal representation in the sciences development of osteoarthritis in humans and balance – they have a moral obligation to do might be realised, as well as the cultural other apes. that. But it also makes good business sense issues and patterns that typically lead men to lay foundations for a happy, productive and women on to separate and opposing Outside the university, I am involved with work-force. paths in terms of careers, aspirations and discussions about public engagement achievements. at a national level, through membership What or who inspired you to pursue of various boards or more informal contacts a career in science? Hi Alice! Can you tell us more about your role with organisations and institutions such I was particularly inspired by great as Professor of Public Engagement as the Wellcome Trust and the British science writers like Steven Jay Gould, with Science at the University of Science Association. Richard Dawkins and Steve Jones. David Birmingham? Attenborough was an inspiration to me too, I have been at the University of Birmingham Less than 20% of professors are female of course. But my dad was also an important since 2012, in a role that is focused on – what can be done to address this issue inspiration to me – he’s an engineer and encouraging and supporting public of women reaching professorial levels? taught me a lot about critical thinking and engagement, not just with science, but We need to tackle unconscious bias, which questioning the world around me, as well as with research and teaching more generally. can impede promotion and progression; instilling a love of tinkering and taking things I quickly realised that this challenge needed the Athena SWAN charter has proved very apart to find out how they worked. Now I am a strong team, and we came together useful in this area. Much of that comes down fascinated by the way the human body is put originally as the public engagement to awareness as well as effective training and together, and the best way to understand working group, which has now evolved into the Public Engagement with Research Committee (PERC). We work on developing We need to tackle unconscious the university’s portfolio of engagement activities, on identifying and dismantling bias, which can impede institutional barriers to public engagement, promotion and progression

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that is to take it apart! My local museum When I look at the balance of science Science Grrl.” Science Grrl does excellent damaging. From a very early age, we’re and the hands-on science centre were places presenters on television, despite efforts to work, but it’s odd to mention an organisation sending out signals that certain areas of life, that inspired me as a child. achieve diversity, there’s still a definite male alongside those two male examples, rather certain careers eventually, are more suited to bias. I suspect that the idea that men naturally than any of the prominent female scientists boys than to girls, and vice versa. While boys You have been versatile in your various have “more gravitas” runs very deep indeed. on television. Having mentioned two male can expect to build towers and bridges, girls

roles, from TV presenter, to author and physicists and broadcasters, he could have must lower their ambitions to assembling © David Stevens professor. What has your experience We are in the midst of a Golden Age of mentioned Maggie Aderin-Pocock, Helen three Duplo blocks into a cake. There are so been as a woman in a leading and very science on TV, but women are arguably Czerski or Danielle George. In terms of many examples – in toys and clothing – where successful career? mostly absent: ‘Girls are crying out for a public engagement with science, and gender girls are directed to be interested in ponies, It’s always hard to know, but I think female scientific role model’. Do you think stereotypes, I felt that this speech rather fairies and unicorns while boys are associated I experienced a certain level of it is true that there is a lack of women in the successfully promoted the idea of science as with trucks, space exploration and dinosaurs. institutionalised sexism early on in my media? Do you consider yourself to be the an exclusively male endeavour – whilst laying What about the boys who’d like to be equine academic career, when I was passed over female Brian Cox? bare that problem of invisibility. vets, nurses or dancers – or the girls who want for promotion and told I “lacked gravitas” I don’t think I’m the female anyone! I’m me. to be engineers and palaeontologists? (which I took as meaning: a beard and other Could Brian Cox be the male Alice Roberts? I think it’s important to have a range of male accoutrements). In my department, After all, I had a landmark science series potential role models out there – not just one We need to make sure that such gender it was clear that women were channelled on BBC2 before he did – but perhaps nobody or two. And it’s not just gender diversity that stereotyping isn’t narrowing horizons and more into teaching and administrative roles. noticed. we should be aiming for. lowering ambitions, and the easiest way to do that is to avoid it entirely. I was delighted to I’ve enjoyed a long career in television, as I do think there’s a problem with ‘invisibility’ In 2013, you argued that pink Lego for girls hear that John Lewis introduced gender- an expert presenter covering areas as diverse of women. Even when there are women helps reinforce gender attitudes that see neutral clothes for kids last year. Let’s stop as evolutionary anthropology, biology, scientists prominent on television, we don’t boys performing better in science – can you labelling our kids and wait to find out what medicine and archaeology, which all relate seem to be noticed as much as men. When explain this idea of breaking down gender they’re interested in, rather than restricting to my academic background, teaching and science minister Jo Johnson gave his speech stereotypes in more detail and also explain their choices from the start. research. I’ve had wonderful opportunities about the “Future of British Science” in why the gender divide is so prevalent in the to make interesting programmes, but I January 2016, he mentioned ten men – and UK in comparison to other countries? Engineering is the subject with the smallest found that taking time out for maternity not a single woman. When it came to I only singled out Lego as an example of how proportion of women – why do you think leave affected my broadcast career quite “STEM capital”, he said, “We have come a toys had become more gender-differentiated this is? How should the subject gender significantly, for a while, at least. Memories long way in the last decade in mainstreaming over the last couple of decades. It may be a imbalance be addressed? need to catch up. Other problems involve You can find out more about Professor seem short in television, and there is a science, thanks in no small part to stars neat device by toy manufacturers to make Well it’s not ability, so again it’s down to social gender stereotyping and low uptake of Alice Roberts’ role and work here: https:// tendency to pigeonhole people according to such as Brian Cox and Jim Al-Khalili and sure that we buy twice as many toys, but and cultural influences. With physics and subjects by young women – such as physics www.birmingham.ac.uk/university/ their latest work. the important work of organisations like the effect is insidious and potentially very engineering, the problem lies not only in the and engineering. Biology, psychology heroes/alice-roberts.aspx. leaky pipeline of careers, but with attracting and medicine don’t suffer from such an issue, a good balance of students to start with. instead, we should be worried about the There’s nothing inherently masculine about lower numbers of young men applying for physics, just as there’s nothing inherently these subjects. feminine about psychology, but somehow that’s how it’s portrayed and viewed. From What needs to be done to ensure that a national, economic perspective, this women continue to enter science education means we’re not tapping into the widest and pursue a career in science? pool of talent in these areas. I am even more We have plenty of young women entering concerned with the personal perspective study and careers in medicine and biology. – where individuals are being turned off Focusing more on specific areas and specific

© Lorian Reed-Draker Lorian © subjects and careers that they might have challenges will help to pave the way for Contact found wonderfully fulfilling. workable solutions. In summary, solutions Professor Alice Roberts range across: tackling stereotypes where School of Biosciences What challenges do women face in science, these create barriers or disincentives; University of Birmingham technology, engineering and mathematics schemes to raise aspirations focused Edgbaston (STEM) education and careers? on certain disciplines; schemes such as the Birmingham I hate the acronym ‘STEM’! It’s used so much Athena SWAN charter – to raise awareness B15 2TT in the literature, and yet poorly understood and encourage training and mentoring; UK outside that educational bubble. It is too radical career re-structuring – especially narrow in some ways, and too broad in for early and mid-career researchers in W: www.birmingham.ac.uk/schools/ others. It’s narrow because it doesn’t include universities; more equality in national policies biosciences/staff/profile.aspx?Refe medicine – but then it’s also too broad on parental leave; equal pay. renceId=122726&Name=professor- because it lumps sciences together. alice-roberts What would happen if universities W: www.alice-roberts.co.uk/ Some of the challenges women face in provided low-cost, on-site crèches? : @theAliceRoberts What could free childcare such careers are there in many professions, do for the equality of and have to do with career structures which And perhaps most radically – what could free assume the support of “stay-at-home childcare do for the equality of women in our women in our society? wife” – society has changed, and jobs society?

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