Women Athletes: Fighting Their Way Into Recognition An Interview with Addie

Interviewer: Brynn Jacoby America in the 20th Century World Mr. David Brandt February 13th 2008 Table of Contents

Interview Release Form …………………………………………………………….

Statement of Purpose ………………………………………………………………. 1

Biography ………………………………………………………………………….. 2

Historical Contextualization ……………………………………………………….. 4

Interview Transcription ……………………………………………………………. 13

Time Indexing Log ………………………………………………………………… 47

Interview Analysis …………………………………………………………………. 48

Appendix ……………………………………………………………………………. 52

Works Cited ………………………………………………………………………… 55 Statement of Purpose

The purpose of this Oral History project is to better understand the progression of women in sports throughout the last century. Through an interview with champion, Pauline Betz Addie, this project provides a clearer understanding of the experiences of women athletes during 1940’s. Addie, one of the first women to win an athletic scholarship, played tennis at the collegiate level and later went on to win five grand slam titles. As Addie talks about her college years on the men’s team, playing for war relief in Europe, as well as her suspension from amateur competition, this interview provides a unique perspective of women athletics throughout the twentieth century. Biography

Pauline Betz Addie was born in 1919 in Dayton, Ohio. At a young age, she and her family moved to Los Angeles, California. Her mother, a high school physical education teacher, encouraged her to play tennis from a young age. Addie graduated from

L.A High School and won a tennis scholarship to Rollins College in California in 1939.

Proud of her accomplishments, including the rare women’s sports scholarship, Addie became a member of the Rollins men’s tennis team. One of the few women playing at a collegiate level, Addie played with many prominent tennis stars.

Known for her incredible speed, Addie won the U.S Open at Forest Hills four times, all during the 1940’s and partially while she was still at Rollins. She then went on to win Wimbledon in 1946, not once losing a single set. As a result of considering the option of going professional, Addie and good friend Sarah Palfrey Cooke were suspended from amateur competition by the U.S . Soon after, in 1947

Addie made the decision to become a professional. During this time she toured with Cooke, , “Gussy” Moran, and many others. While on the road, Addie met her husband Bob Addie, a Washington Post sportswriter.

Pauline Betz and Bob Addie were married in 1949 and started a family soon after.

The first of their five children was born in 1951. Although she still took occasional tours,

Addie began to settle down in Washington, D.C. She loved coaching and worked at various schools in the Washington metropolitan area including Foxcroft in Virginia and

Sidwell Friends and Georgetown Visitation both located in D.C. Addie worked as the tennis pro at Edgemoor Tennis Club in Bethesda, Maryland for around twenty years. She was inducted into the International Tennis Hall of fame in 1965. She now resides in

Potomac, Maryland. Historical Contextualization

Women Athletes Fight Their Way Into Recognition

When champion tennis player Pauline Betz Addie was asked what she received when she won the U.S Open in the 1940’s she responded “Not much, probably a trophy”

(Borda A20). Today, the prize for that same finals match, is approximately 1.5 million dollars not including previous matches won and other endorsements

(www.usopenseries.com). Women athletes in the early twentieth century were presented with numerous stereotypes as woman. As a result of these stereotypes, women were often at a disadvantage to men. Largely spurred by World War II, women were given many more opportunities one of which was sports. The fact that women could not obtain athletic scholarships only one-hundred and fifty years ago proves that the last two centuries have played an enormous part in the growing women’s athletic movement. The accomplishments and struggles of women playing sports in the past have paved the way for women today. The history of women in sports is truly a story of women’s liberation

(Smith ix). While women began playing sports when the country was founded, women only started to become recognized athletes in the mid-twentieth century. Therefore, in order to better understand the perspective of Pauline Betz Addie, a Wimbledon champion in the nineteen-forties, one must be informed of the discrimination women athletes endured in the nineteen-thirties and forties as well as the evolution of women in sports over the course of the last century. From as early as sixth century A.D, hundreds of Greek men athletes are accounted for while only around one dozen female athletes of the time are known

(Guttmann 7). While women have participated in sports in ancient civilizations, the

Middle Ages, and the Renaissance, they have not played a significant part in the history of women in sports. As early as 1542, Mary, the Queen of Scots was recognized as the first female golfer (Saari 361). Over two hundred and fifty years later in 1804, an

American, Alicia Meynell, became the first female jockey. She raced in York, England.

In 1887, Lottie Dod become the first female tennis prodigy, but tragically died at the young age of fifteen. Finally in 1893, Margaret Scott became the first woman to win the

British Ladies’ Golf championship (Saari 362). Over a span of three-hundred and fifty years there were an extremely low number of women’s “firsts” in athletics.

Women really started to get involved in sports in the early nineteenth century when athletics were considered an opportunity to socialize. The sports they played included fishing, boating, sleighing, ice-skating, and horseback riding. These traditional activities are not necessarily what society thinks of when considering sports today.

During this time women were deemed homemakers and the strain of any physical exertion was by no means promoted. By the mid-nineteenth century, it became acceptable for women to watch sports and some doctors began to advocate exercise in moderation for women. Being allowed to watch sporting events eventually prompted women to become interested in competing (Woolum 4). As a result of women’s increasing roles during the Civil War, women became more involved in women related organizations, further establishing themselves in society. During this time, they helped the soldiers, but their new roles eventually evolved into the increase in women’s sports. Despite their presence in the sporting world, it was often still considered “unfeminine” for women to run after balls, let alone break a sweat. Women’s participation in sports continued to grow throughout the century and by 1877, the Ladies Club for Outdoor

Sports was created. Continuing the new trend of women athletes, the Lawn

Tennis Association opened its membership to women in 1889 (Woolum 5).

Opportunities for women athletes continued to become available. Physical education programs began to blossom throughout the nations colleges and universities allowing women to become involved in sports. Some of these programs were even required

(Woolum 7). The American Physical Education Association (APEA) formed a

Committee on Women’s Athletics (CWA). These organizations were created to solve the problems women and girls faced in sports (Woolum 8). The Amateur Athletic Union

(AAU), originally formed in 1888 to promote men’s amateur athletics, took an interest in women’s competition after World War One. By 1923 AAU was sponsoring at least nine women’s sports (Woolum 9).

Women first began to make their presence known in sports in the twentieth century. Defeating Doris K. Douglas in 1905, the British Bundy became the first woman to win a singles tennis title at Wimbledon (Saari 362). Five years later in

1910, American Eleonora Sears became the first woman to play against men in a polo match. African American women also began to establish themselves in sports, which was an extremely incredible task at the time. Not only did they suffer from racial oppression, but they also had to struggle as women to create a place for themselves in sports. Lucy Diggs Slowe became the first African-American woman to be a United

States national champion when she won the all-black American Tennis Association championships in 1917. In 1923, , an American tennis player, established the , the first international women’s tennis competition (Saari

365). In 1924, American swimmer, Sybil Bauer became the first woman to win an

Olympic gold in medal in the one-hundred meter backstroke. During the first year when the competition was open to women, Bauer broke the existing men’s world swimming record. In 1928, Lina Radke, a German runner became the firth woman to win the

Olympic gold medal in the eight-hundred meter track and field. Like in Bauer’s case, this was the first year that competition in this event was open to women. Subsequently, the event was not open again to female competitors until 1960 (Saari 366).

Women continued to make their presence known in the 1940’s. American swimmer, , became the first woman to win the James E. Sullivan Award of the

Amateur Athletic Union (AAU) and Gretchen Fraser became the first American woman to win an Olympic medal in skiing (Saari 369-370). In 1950, African-American tennis player, broke the color barrier when she played in the U.S Open at Forest

Hills. She would also become the first black female to play and win at Wimbledon (Saari

371). Tenley Albright became the first woman to win the World Figure Skating

Championship in 1953. In that same year, American tennis player became the first woman to win all of the grand slams which include Wimbledon, the

Australian, French, and the U.S. Opens (Saari 372). Throughout the century women continued to make history. Playing throughout the 1930’s and 1940’s Pauline Betz also contributed to the growing movement of women playing competitive sports.

While women did make progress and had begun making there mark in the history of women sports, they were faced with many stereotypes and challenges that were not encountered by men. Fashion was extremely influential in women’s ability to play sports. Many women in the eighteen-hundreds traditionally wore corsets, petticoats, long sleeves, and high-collars. This restrictive clothing made it difficult for women interested in playing sports. The women who did venture from the norm were often ridiculed.

While the women’s clothing did make it difficult to compete in sports, safety also became an issue. For example, women bike riders needed to where different clothing because of the danger of their long-flowing skirts becoming stuck in the bikes wheels or chains

(Woolum 6). One adventurous woman, Lili de Alvarez, a Spanish tennis player, dared to appear wearing shorts during the 1931 Wimbledon Grand Slam competition. This extremely radical attire, although unacceptable at the time, became a necessity to women of future generations (Saari 367). Many women struggled throughout the century with the restrictions of “appropriate standards.” One of the biggest concerns of the time was women over-exerting themselves. There was also a fear that women could not “handle the competitive nature of sports.” In 1894 Bryn Mawr challenged Vassar in a tennis tournament, but both schools refused for the match to take place (Woolum 8). In establishing themselves in sports, women had to overcome many stereotypes and discriminations as a result of there sex. Women athletes did not really become a large part of society until well into the twentieth century.

The United States stock market crash of 1929 was one of few reasons that women athletes gained recognition. The depression of the 1930’s left millions unemployed and many women were forced to quit their previous jobs. While people looked to divert their attention to better things, sports became popular throughout the suffering society. With an abundance of time and little money to spend, playing sports was the perfect way for people to spend their days. Through Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal, the Works

Progress Administration contributed more than one-billion dollars toward the funding of recreation facilities and programs. Many sports enthusiasts were attracted by the low- prices of entertainment. As a result, many sports gained popularity throughout the country. During this time, the AAU began to sponsor female athletics, adding to the increasing enthusiasm of women athletes (Woolum 13). Women continued to take on nontraditional roles throughout the century. These new roles became even more prominent during World War II (Struna).

As World War II progressed throughout the 1940s and America’s male workforce was sent to fight in the war, women had the opportunity of joining the labor force.

Dominating the country’s wartime economy, over fifty percent of women were employed during the year of 1944. As a result of their increased workload, physical fitness was encouraged in women nationwide. According to Pauline Betz Addie, “In the 1940’s it

[women’s tennis] was big because the men’s tournaments were curtailed by the war”

(Borda A20). Despite the new support towards female athletes, great measures were taken to preserve the image of femininity (Woolum 15). In the absence of men, professional major league men’s baseball could not continue. As a result, professional baseball became available to women. The now famous All-American Girls Baseball

League (AAGBL) began playing in 1943. Although it had restrictions placed on uniform and appearance, women were nevertheless allowed to play what had once been the national pastime of men (Struna). Putting women’s stereotypes in a new light, the All-

American Girls Baseball League pulled women one step closer to achieving equality in sports. One large problem for women that continued to be an issue throughout the centuries was clothing. Sponsors of the All-American Girls Baseball League went as far as requiring players to study in charm school where they learned etiquette and makeup techniques. Maintaining the feminine figure was almost more important than the sport itself. During the baseball season, players were required to wear uniform dresses that could be no more than six inches above the knee. Players were not allowed to cut their hair short or wear any type of the so-called men’s clothing (Woolum 15). When featured in Times Magazine, Pauline Betz Addie recalls that the magazine “had nothing written about our tennis at all…All it had was what will Gussie [the opponent] wear.” (Dinich

D1) The focus being on fashion and femininity rather than athletics put women at a disadvantage to men. There was potential for women to be taken less seriously for this reason. Addie admits that much has changed from her time in the spotlight. She explained to a Washington Post reporter that, “players make much more money, [and that] more attention is paid to a woman’s game than to her outfits” (Arner C8).

Statistically women’s participation throughout the last century in sports has improved. By1951, twenty-eight percent out of a total of two-hundred and thirty colleges provided some sort of intramural competition for women students. Although still in the minority, the twenty-eight percent of schools with physical education programs was an improvement (Woolum 16). It had only been in the late eighteen hundreds that these programs were even permitted. Within a span of twelve years, the number of women

Olympic athletes had increased. Only seven countries participated in the First Women’s

Olympic Games in 1922, but by the Forth Women’s World Games in 1934, nineteen different countries participated in the events (Woolum 37). The progress women have made over the past one-hundred years is remarkable. The United States Tennis

Association opened its doors to women in 1889 and officially began to rank them in 1913

(www.usta.com). By 1998, the USTA was made up of fifty-eight percent women out of its one-hundred and twenty thousand members. (Smith 59). The hard work and determination women put forth eventually would pay off.

One of the biggest struggles for accomplished women athletes was the gap between amateur and professional athletics. It was a major dilemma for Pauline Betz

Addie and Sarah Palfrey Cooke who made no living as amateur tennis players. For even considering going professional, the two women were suspended from the league in 1947

(McKenna 16). In 1979, when speaking of the best three women players, tennis phenomenon Jack Kramer spoke of Betz “who is terribly underrated, almost forgotten because the U.S.L.T.A. bounced her out of the game” (Kramer 89). As a national champion Addie was forced to wait tables to make a living. Despite holding a real estate and brokerage license, in order for Addie to continue her tennis career she needed to make a significant amount of money (Borda A20). Going professional was her best option which ultimately worked out well for her. As tennis professionals, Addie and

Cooke were ineligible to play in the Grand Slam Events. As a result, the two took the initiative and went on tour with other professionals. In doing so, although barred from some major events, the two succeeded in earning a decent income. Although not the first women to become professionals, the steps these women took ultimately led to success for them and future generations of professional women athletes.

Without the persistence and success of the women athletes in the nineteen thirties and forties, women today would very possibly be in a different situation than they are as it relates to stereotypes and equality to men in sports. These extraordinary female athletes fought for their rights to play sports and in doing so, broke down the gender barrier which limited them so much in the past. They broke down more then just gender barriers, gaining respect from each other and the opposite sex. As one of the first female professional tennis players, Pauline Betz Addie’s experiences enables one to better understand the importance of the evolution of women in sports as well as the discrimination that women underwent in order to get to the place they are in society today. Interview Transcription

Interviewee/Narrator: Pauline Betz Addie Interviewer: Brynn Jacoby Location: Summerville Assistant Living, Potomac, Maryland Date: December 27, 2007

Brynn Jacoby: This is Brynn Jacoby and I am interviewing Pauline Betz Addie as part of the American Century Oral History Project. This interview took place at 10:00 AM on

December 27th, 2007 at Summerville Assistant Living in Potomac, Maryland. So first of all what was your childhood like growing up in California during the 1920’s and 30’s.

Pauline Betz Addie: Well the 1920’s I was just born, so I don’t remember too much about that but, it was great being in California where you could play tennis at a very young age whereas there wasn’t much tennis in the rest of the country compared to

California. So I was very fortunate that my parents moved there when I was about five or six. So I got an early start.

BJ: (laughs) Where were you born originally (pause) like where were you born?

PBA: I was born in Ohio. BJ: Ohio. And than you moved to California…

PBA: I left very early fortunately.

BJ: So, growing up then you weren’t…’cause I know women weren’t traditionally allowed to play team sports, so you weren’t really discouraged from playing sports, especially in California?

PBA: It was a very outdoor…

BJ: Well do you feel like women at the time were discouraged from playing sports at all?

PBA: Were what?

BJ: Were women discouraged from playing sports during that time do you think?

PBA: Yes, pretty much.

BJ: So when did you start playing tennis? Did you start when you moved to California?

PBA: Yes, when I moved to California, my mother played tennis and there weren’t that many women playing then so I was fortunate she was a physical education teacher, and she started me playing tennis very young. BJ: Did you play, did you play competitively?

PBA: Well, they didn’t have tournaments then for really very young. A little later they started having tournaments for the under eight, and under ten, and under twelve. So I was a pretty late starter. I didn’t play till, probably didn’t play a tournament ‘til I was around twelve.

BJ: So it’s not like today…

PBA: Today they play, yeah, under six (unintelligible).

BJ: So could you play like in high school, and stuff like that?

PBA: In high school?

BJ: Yeah, could you play like on a team?

PBA: Yeah, I played in high school.

BJ: Did they have like a team? PBA: We had a team. I went to L.A High School and we had a team. And I didn’t make the team when I was…My sister wasn’t as good as I was and she made the team (both laugh).

BJ: You played in college I think. Was it Rollins College? And did you play on the men’s team, was that right?

PBA: I did. We had a team. I played, I think I played third singles or fourth singles on the men’s team.

BJ: So were there any women teams? Like college teams at the time?

PBA: They didn’t have too many, they had some colleigent players, but not…I was probably one of the best best even when I was a freshman. (BJ laughs)

Rob Arner: When you played on the men’s team Jack Kramer was playing one right?

PBA: Yeah, yeah, Jack Kramer played for Rollins when I was there.

BJ: So did you care playing with men? Was it I mean…

PBA: No, I liked playing with men, good competition (BJ laughs). BJ: So, I mean, it seems like you weren’t…there wasn’t much…you weren’t affected so much by the feminine, I guess, image at the time, you know like the idea where men were better at least physically than women, especially as an athlete, you didn’t…did you feel affected with that at all?

PBA: Did I what?

BJ: Like, were you, did you ever feel like that as a woman you kinda not thought of as good as the men were? Do you understand? (looking at Rob) Do you understand the question?

RA: No.

BJ: Like, did you feel as a woman you were not thought of as seriously as men?

PBA: No, we had all the good women. And we really…at Rollins particularly we had a lot of good women players. And I think the women were lucky and got to play against pretty fair men who were as good as the best women. I always had good competition.

BJ: So that wasn’t really an issue for you being a woman in a time that maybe men dominated the sports. That wasn’t an issue? PBA: No, no men didn’t dominate tennis. They were a lot better…The best men were far better than the best women.

RA: I guess your talking about the cultural time when women in sports was not the most appropriate thing you know. It was sort of _____ back then.

BJ: I know there was a lot of talk about the outfits. Like did you feel ever like there was a lot more focus on your outfit and fashion rather than tennis like at the time? Like I know I read some…

RA: Gussy Moran**.

PBA: Yeah, I guess it was about my time.

RA: But Gussy’s outfit got a lot of…Gussy was… she played on the tour.

BJ: So did that ever happen, like where there was… where they focused on your outfit, like where they didn’t really focus on the tennis you were playing?

PBA: Yeah, well they, we had periods of time where they stressed the attire, mostly it was whether you won or not (laughs). RA: You did wear a leopard skin outfit one time when Gussy…Gussy’s panties were the rave right when you…

PBA: Yeah, when I went on tour with Gussy and everything was “what was Gussy going to wear?”. So I decided I wasn’t going to be out dressed, and I had all sorts of leopard skin and tiger, all sorts of outfits that I wore. Everything was versus “what was Gussy going to wear?” and when I finally came out and played with all this strange attire…everything was written about, well, how wrong could we be.

RA: Well you won the women’s first touring pros, Pauline. Were you and Gussy…

PBA: Yeah, well there weren’t too many women pros mostly…

RA: Yeah, but did a lot of women go around and do exibitions? And you were one of the first ones to do that.

PBA: Yeah.

BJ: Okay, I know you were young when this happened, but were you affected at all by the Great Depression, like the 1929 Great Depression, like growing up or during your career? I mean I know that’s earlier, but were you affected at all by that?

PBA: The what? BJ: The Great Depression. And like the 1929…I know you were young, but were you affected by that at all? Your family?

PBA: What was the ceremony?

BJ: The Depression, the stock market crash in 1929. Was your family affected by that?

PBA: No, The depression was a little before me so…

BJ: What about World War II? Was, I mean it was right in the height of your career. So was your career affected by World War II at all?

PBA: Well we still…we played a lot for war relief or a lot of exhibitions and we weren’t affected too much. We were a lot a part of playing exhibitions for war relief and for the troops and we went to Europe and Asia and all, played a lot of exhibitions.

BJ: What was the kind of war relief? Was that…did you play for the troops so that they were watching?

PBA: Yes.

RA: And she couldn’t play Wimbledon (unintelligible). PBA: No, we didn’t have Wimbledon during the war. So we had our Nationals…

BJ: So the US stuff…Being an amateur athlete could you make a living on just tennis or did you have like other jobs on the side.

PBA: Well sometimes I had some sort of a job but, mostly I played tennis (laughs).

RA: Right after the first Forest Hills win, you were working waiting tables weren’t you at

Rollins.

PBA: Yeah, when I was at school yeah.

RA: Three days later after you won Forest Hills you were at Rollins. Right? You were a waitress weren’t you?

PBA: Yeah, I did various small jobs, mostly I played tennis though.

BJ: So you could make a living off of it or no?

PBA: A meager living. BJ: Were men in the same position when it came to making a living while being an amateur athlete? Where men in the same position as you like they didn’t make much of a living?

PBA: Well they got the majority of the money. Women didn’t, but for a while when men had to go to war, we got the money.

BJ: So during the war you got more money?

PBA: Yeah, not too much, but enough, enough to live on.

RA: So if you won a tournament you won like fifty dollars, or a hundred dollars, or twenty dollars or something like that?

PBA: It all depends…

RA: But never, you won more than like a hundred dollars right?

PBA: Not much (all laugh).

BJ: So compared to the athletes today, I mean it wasn’t…

PBA: No the athletes today do a little better (both laugh). BJ: How was it winning Wimbledon and The U.S Open at Forest Hills, and how does competition differ from today?

PBA: Well there are a whole lot more players than there were when I was playing. I mean they rank, I’d say they ranked like 20 players and then they had a Class A. Now they have hundreds that rank. Pretty different…

BJ: Was Wimbledon, I guess were the Grand Slams like Wimbledon and the U.S Open, were they as big of a deal when you won them as the are today?

PBA: Well, there still, sure, they were always big. Now there are a whole lot more players to qualify for playing. You have to have a ranking… a pretty high ranking to even be able to play in the big tournaments.

BJ: So were there, were there not as many accomplished players playing in Wimbledon when you did?

PBA: No, there a lot more players now than there ever were then.

BJ: Did you feel, or did you see yourself as a role model at all? For girls especially during the time. PBA: Somewhat, there were, there were a whole lot of players playing, but there weren’t that many good players ever. I mean when I was winning, I never felt I if I had a chance of losing in the early rounds. And now they have good players. There might be a hundred and sixteen players who play…

BJ: Do you think if you played like, I don’t know, or some good tennis player today, if you had played them, do you think it would have been the same kind of competition, or do think they’re better than they were during your time.

PBA: Well, if you’re winning at the early rounds now, you probably have more competition in the first few rounds than you had then.

RA: Pauline, you were asked about being a role model, are there other players…you were affected by certain players right growing up that had an impact on you. Have you heard of other players like or . You were a role model for them weren’t you?

PBA: Not really (laughs).

RA: You weren’t? You don’t think you were a role model at all?

PBA: No, no they were almost as good as I was. RA: Or players later. I’m just saying, you know. That who saw you play, and they emulated you.

PBA: Yeah, well I hope I was. There are a lot more players playing now, but I don’t know that the…any of the top ones now…

RA: Well you mentioned the YaYa Sisterhood as being a role model for the author of that book I wanna be Pauline Addie…Pauline Betz. And the YaYa sisterhood, so certainly your mentioned in a novel as being a role model.

PBA: Yeah, well there have always been the top. There have been maybe about ten players who have a chance at beating the top players. And that’s always been true.

BJ: That’s kind of my next question a little bit, but are there any female athletes from anywhere from the twenties to fifties that really stand out in your mind at all?

PBA: Athletes who stand out in my mind?

BJ: Yeah, like women athletes that just were strong female figures or…

PBA: There are a lot of good athletes now and a lot of them tried tennis, but tennis is something that if you start out at six and seven your going to be better by the time your ten than the good athletes who started late and they can’t compete really with the very young players who are very good by ten.

RA: Like Babe Sarheris***. Was she someone…?

PBA: Yeah, she tried tennis for a while and didn’t, didn’t…as great an athlete as she was, she couldn’t really start that late and compete with the tennis pros that started at six.

BJ: So, were than any really great athletes that you looked up to or that just stick out to you at all.

PBA: No, I don’t know any players that started out late in tennis and…

RA: No stick, no some players that really affected you. Was it Dupont? No, not Dupont, but Louise B***.

PBA: Yeah, she wasn’t that great an athlete really, which was strange because usually…

RA: How bout little Mo?

PBA: Yeah, little Mo was tremendous. Luckily she was a little after me (both laugh).

BJ: What about like Althea Gibson, Althea Gibson I think she was the first… PBA: She was a very good athlete too.

BJ: She was a little bit after you wasn’t she, or did you play her at all?

PBA: I played some with her. She was just coming up.

BJ: Because I think she what was she was the first African American really woman athlete…

RA: You played with her in ’57 and ’58 when you were at Edgemoor.

PBA: She was good, very good athlete.

BJ: How about the decision for you and was it Sarah Palfrey Cooke…

PBA: (Both laughing & unintelligible).

BJ: Well, how did the decision come about to become professional?

PBA: Well she came, she came along just at the time when… it was a good time to be turning pro. Because we had some exhibition tours, we played… Riggs and Budge played on the same time as we did. She was a very underrated player, she was a very good player. So we went on a couple of tours.

BJ: Did the…Was it a mutual decision to become professional, because I think you both did at the same time. Was that…

PBA: They decided. I hadn’t definitely decided to turn pro. But I … Sorta made me, almost made me do it. He said I was negotiating to turn pro. That was what made me decided. I couldn’t play as an amateur and I probably could’ve been reinstated if I had really worked at it, but at that time I was ready to turn pro and make something out of it.

BJ: So you were suspended from the league. Is that right…during the time?

PBA: That was what?

BJ: So you were suspended for the amateur league?

PBA: Well I was suspended. I couldn’t play as an amateur.

RA: Was it because of the letter from her husband, or something like that? Is that why you were suspended? PBA: Yeah they had a lot of letters went out to tennis clubs seeing if they wanted to have

Sarah play me with Riggs and Budge. We decided we would do that. That was the end of my amateur career. Fortunately (laughs).

RA: So the letters precipitated the suspension.

PBA: Yeah.

BJ: So, fortunately. So you were glad.

PBA: Yeah, I was very happy to turn pro.

BJ: I guess, what was the difference?

PBA: Made more money. Not that much more. Somewhat.

BJ: Was it, do you think it was ultimately a good decision for you to go pro?

PBA: Yeah, I think definitely.

BJ: Other than more money, what was the difference? I mean was there a difference? PBA: Well you had more opportunities to play. Because there weren’t really any tournaments for pros. There really weren’t enough pros to really have professional tournaments. So everything was (unintelligible) as an amateur you had a lot more opportunities to play tournaments.

BJ: Could you play in like the…like in Wimbledon?

PBA: Not as an amateur no, I mean not as a pro.

BJ: Not as a pro. Do you remember who the big…who the professional women were at the time? Other than you?

PBA: Well , who was an English player.

(interruption – Rob Arner leaves)

BJ: What was your experience like as a professional, since you were ineligible for those other tournaments? Were you more restricted?

PBA: Well by that time I had had enough of amateur tennis. So it wasn’t any big deal to me then. The press seemed to think it was, but it really wasn’t. I had had enough

(laughs). BJ: So the press thought it was a bigger deal than you did at the time. So it was a bigger deal to the press than you?

PBA: Do what?

BJ: It was a bigger deal to the press than for you?

PBA: Yeah.

BJ: Were you more restricted as a player?

PBA: what?

BJ: Were you more restricted as a player? Like you couldn’t play in as…

PBA: Well you couldn’t play in Wimbledon, and you couldn’t play… And it wasn’t too long after that that they opened up and made it possible to play.

BJ: I mean what did they do to make it more possible for professionals to play?

PBA: Well they opened up the Open and Wimbledon and the French and everything became available to play in as a pro. BJ: Did you play in any of those as a professional? Did you play in the Open?

PBA: No they didn’t open it up in time for me really.

BJ: So they opened it up after?

PBA: Yeah.

BJ: Do you know how much after? Like around what year?

PBA: It wasn’t that many years.

BJ: Were you kind of the first woman professional…pro?

PBA: Were what?

BJ: Were you the first woman pro?

PBA: No, Alice Marble was.

BJ: She was before you? So was it unusual?

PBA: She was what? BJ: Was it unusual for you. I guess for athletes or for women athletes at the time?

PBA: Yeah there weren’t that many.

BJ: I guess how would you compare your experience as a famous athlete in the earlier half of the century to women’s experiences today? Like women athletes today?

PBA: Well there are a lot more, a lot more women who are runners or ice skaters.

BJ: Mmhmm…Do you think they’re treated differently at all? Are they more accepted than they were when you played?

PBA: Well I think so.

BJ: I guess in what way? Did you at all feel like you weren’t accepted as an athlete when you played?

PBA: No, I think women athletes are pretty accepted now.

BJ: More so than they were. PBA: Yeah, more so than they were. And they, they’re pretty much accepted all over. Of course the Olympics were still pretty much on an amateur basis. Even the Olympic opened up…

BJ: Was it a challenge for you at all to find competitions to play in? More as a woman than as a tennis player. Did anybody challenge your ability to play or anything as a woman?

PBA: Not really, no.

BJ: Were there instances that that happened?

PBA: No, we were prettyy accepted by the time I was…by the time they opened up

Wimbledon and the Open here at Forest Hills, Women were pretty accepted as pros.

BJ: Do you know when it opened up to women?

PBA: No, Marble and Hardwick. There were a few of us, but not nearly as many woman pros as there were women amateur players.

BJ: Can you think of the first woman tennis player? Do you remember?

PBA: Probably Alice Marble was the best…best of the pro women. BJ: Did you play her, or was she before you?

PBA: She was just before me.

BJ: What about after you retired from professional tennis? Were you married while you were still touring, or was that afterwards?

PBA: I was still touring somewhat. And then I was touring after I was married for a while. Bob [Addie’s husband] was called back in the service.

BJ: He was in the…?

PBA: He was in the airforce.

BJ: What years was that?

PBA: It was ’49.

BJ: He was a journalist of a sportswriter?

PBA: yeah. BJ: When did you move to DC or the area?

PBA: Well, I married in ’49, so I lived there sort of commuting (laughs)

BJ: How did you decide on DC?

PBA: Well that’s where he worked.

BJ: How did you meet him? (interrupted for Holy Communion) When or how did you meet you husband?

PBA: We met at the Open. I was working for a paper writing, and he was covering…he was writing for the paper her.

BJ: When did you have your children? Was that after you retired that you started your family?

PBA: I had sort of retired, but I sort of came back too. So I was married in ’49 and first child in ’51.

BJ: And you were still playing at the time?

PBA: Still playing, yeah. BJ: And then when did you start coaching?

PBA: I started coaching right away. I was pregnant when I was coaching most of the time (both laugh).

BJ: When did you start working at Edgemoor. Did you do that for a long time?

PBA: I worked at Edgemoor for twenty years probably.

BJ: Did you enjoy coaching and everything, or did you miss playing?

PBA: Yeah I liked teaching.

BJ: Did you miss playing on the road and everything?

PBA: Yeah, I didn’t mind that.

BJ: You didn’t mind that? Had you had enough of that?

PBA: I liked touring. I liked playing. As I had said, a lot of good competition.

BJ: What about coaching teams? Were you a coach at Sidwell for a while? PBA: Yeah, I taught at various schools. Foxcroft in Virginia.

BJ: Mmhmm. Sidwell? Visitation? Did you coach those?

PBA: Different Schools. Sidwell Friends I coached for years and years. I enjoyed teaching at the schools. They were good.

BJ: When was the last time you played tennis?

PBA: Well I havn’t played for over a year.

BJ: Over a year. You played a year ago?

PBA: Yeah. Don’t have too much desire to play anymore. Never thought I’d say that but…(both laugh).

BJ: So since my papers about women. Women in sports. Do you have anything to say about? Well what are you’re thoughts just about women playing sports when you did? I mean I know you said you didn’t really feel like you were affected by it as much, but do you think women were affected or prejudiced against at all? (pause) Do you think women were or there was prejudice against women at all during that time? PBA: Yeah, there wasn’t really that much that I ever felt. I remember women were pretty highly thought of. They couldn’t compete with men. I mean the good men were far better than the best women. But we had our own field.

BJ: So you kind of got lucky I think.

PBA: No, they didn’t had much prejudice against us.

BJ: Okay. Were you associated at all with other women in sports? Like I know there was the All American Girls Baseball League. I mean were you associated with any of those other sports at the time?

PBA: No, not really.

BJ: What else? Like are there any experiences that you want to share or anything?

PBA: I think women tennis players…Well there were tennis players and golfers and baseball players, but they were all different. The women tennis players I think were maybe above all the other women athletes. They really got more publicity and made more money that most of the top athletes in the other sports.

BJ: Why do you think that was? PBA: Well people just liked the tennis players.

BJ: Okay, well thank you very much. Unless there is anything you want to add, I’m done. Anything else?

PBA: Ok, very good.

BJ: Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

***Once recording is stopped, Addie continues speaking. Interview is continued on different track.

PBA: We traveled around the country with a group. I played table tennis against a

Hungarian ping-pong player. And we played. Instead of playing table tennis sometimes we went on with the log-rollers (both laugh). So I became a pretty good log-roller.

BJ: What’s that? What do you do with that?

PBA: You have to get out on the ice and if you didn’t do it very well you ended up in the water (both laugh). But I became a good log-roller. They say you work hard and become a great tennis player, then you get to get up and stay on the logs (Brynn laughs). Went out on every sport there was I…

BJ: Did you play a lot of sports. PBA: Yeah my mother taught Physical, Physical-Ed. And she started us doing everything when we were very young.

BJ: Was she a big influence in you life?

PBA: Oh yes very much. A big influence. She was a very good athlete. And she could beat my until I was about fifteen or sixteen. She was a good tennis player. And at the time when there weren’t that many women tennis players. She won a lot of teachers tournaments when she was pretty young too.

BJ: So she played too. So she had a big influence on your playing sports and encouraging you.

PBA: Yes, very very much.

BJ: If it wasn’t for her do you thing you would have become a professional?

PBA: Yeah, definitely she was the biggest influence in my life.

BJ: Did she ever go on tour with you or anything? Was she there with you a lot?

PBA: Yes. BJ: And you said you had a sister?

PBA: A sister. She was a good athlete.

BJ: Did she play tennis also?

PBA: She played, but she couldn’t beat me. She was older, so that was difficult for her.

My brother was a good athlete.

BJ: So they all played sports. What did your father do? Was he an athlete at all?

PBA: He played some tennis.

BJ: But your mom was a Physical Education teacher so that was…?

PBA: Yeah she was a much bigger influence on me than my father.

BJ: Did either of you siblings play sports in college? Did they pursue that at all?

PBA: Well I played in college. I played on the men’s team at Rollins.

BJ: Your siblings didn’t play in college at all? PBA: I played. I say we had a team that had… We had Kramer playing the number one for us. A very good player. And I played, I played usually number four on the men’s team.

BJ: Did you play other women? Were there other schools that had women players?

PBA: Not too many. We played mostly mixed teams.

BJ: So were there other mixed teams?

PBA: Not really.

BJ: Not really. Did that bother you at all? Or you liked playing with them?

PBA: I think the men kind of felt bad if they lost to me.

BJ: Did they usually lose, or did they beat you sometimes?

PBA: They didn’t like losing a woman.

BJ: Did you usually beat them? PBA: I usually could beat number four of five. Unless, if they had a good team.

California teams just killed us.

BJ: The California teams were really the best? Was really where tennis was big?

PBA: At that time California. And then Florida started coming up with some good players.

BJ: Do you know why it was that way?

PBA: Well they just didn’t give many scholarships early. Then they started giving scholarships. When they started giving scholarships to good players, the men could always beat the women.

BJ: Did you have a scholarship in college?

PBA: Mmhmm.

BJ: Was that unusual for a woman?

PBA: Yes, it was.

BJ: Was that something that you were…? PBA: I couldn’t get a scholarship to…Or I would have gone to USC or somewhere.

Except they didn’t give any women scholarships. So I was very happy to go to Rollins. I loved Rollins. Great school.

BJ: Was that one of the first colleges to give women scholarships.

PBA: Yeah, uhhuuhh.

BJ: Were there any other schools that did that? Or no?

PBA: Not when I was playing, but they started after that.

BJ: So you were really fortunate.

PBA: Yeah.

BJ: So is there anything else that you think would help me to understand? Or anything?

PBA: You’re good.

BJ: Thank you so much.

(off topic conversation) BJ: Did your children play tennis?

PBA: Yes, two of my boys played very well. Not well enough though (both laugh). And my daughter played, but not great.

BJ: Could they ever beat you, or no?

PBA: The boys could. Time Indexing Log

1. Interviewer: Brynn Jacoby

2. Interviewee: Pauline Betz Addie

3. Date of interview: December 27, 2007

4. Location of interview: Summerville Assistant Living in Potomac, Maryland

5. Recording format:

Audio Type: Video Type: Cassette ______Cassette: ______Micro-Cassette ______Micro-Cassette ______CD _******_ CD ______Digital (DAT) ______Digital (DAT) ______

6. In roughly 5-minute intervals summarize interview topics in the order they appear in the recording. Also not the tape # and tape side beginning with Tape 1. Side A.

Minute Mark Topics presented in order of discussion in recording 5 Explaining women’s place compared to men’s 10 WWII and war relief 15 Comparing the times 20 Role models and transition to going pro 25 Decision to go pro 30 Acceptance as a woman compared to today 35 Her family… 40 Last thoughts on prejudice 42:30 First recording stopped (next track) 5 Playing on Men’s team 9:04 Interview completed

Interview Analysis

Today, the prospect of women playing competitive sports is widely accepted throughout the United States and much of the world. Half a century ago however, women athletes struggled to be as competitive as their male counterparts, and arguably to some extent they still struggle today. There have been women athletes for years trying to make there mark, but it was not until the twentieth century that women started to make great progress. However, despite earning a small income, wearing uncomfortable outfits, and living in the men’s shadows, the 1940’s tennis star Pauline Betz Addie seemed to have thoroughly enjoyed her experience as a female athlete during her time. Oral history, unlike the traditional account often based on preconceived notions, provides an honest opinion from someone with real experiences. The growing movement of women athletes as well as Addie’s experiences can be better understood through oral history.

The advantage of oral history is that someone’s true perspective is told.

Regardless of opinion, while speaking of their experiences, an interviewee will tell their interpretation of the time. Oral Historian Studs Terkel once said, “I want people to talk to one another no matter what their difference of opinion might be.” Oral history brings out the different opinions and different view of all types of people. Oral history provides an account of an actual experience while written history provides a historian’s interpretation of that same experience. One might see differences between written accounts and oral histories as I saw in my interview with Pauline Betz Addie.

My interview with Addie went well, as I was able to see a different perspective on women athletes, but in more than one way, it did not goes as I had hoped it would. While she shared many personal and sentimental memories with me of her childhood, her most controversial statements were about her experience as a woman athlete. The many sources and accounts I had read of earlier times, including quotes from Addie herself seemed to have a negative attitude towards women’s participation in sports. As a result, the majority of my prepared questions were about the prejudices that women faced as athletes in the earlier half of the century. I was surprised however to find that Addie did not consider herself a victim to any sort of prejudice as a female athlete. Although she admitted men were paid more attention to, she ultimately made a point of saying she was not negatively affected from the attitudes of the time period. Although my interview did not go as I had planned, I felt that I was able to adjust my questions and learn valuable information from Addie.

While talking about growing up in California, Addie explained that tennis was widely recognized and respected throughout the state, and therefore she was playing among the rising stars. Although she firmly states throughout her interview that her career was not affected by prejudice as a woman, she tells about how she became one of the first women to receive an athletic scholarship. Addie explains, “I couldn’t get a scholarship…or I would have gone to USC or somewhere. Except they didn’t give any women scholarships” (Jacoby 32). Another issue with my interview was that Addie seemed to contradict statements that she had made in past interview with the press. For example in a Washington Post interview, Addie told a reporter that unlike her time, nowadays “players make much more money [and] more attention is paid to woman’s game than to her outfits.” (Arner C8) However, in my interview, when I asked about the outfits, she explained that, “we had periods of time where they stressed the attire [but] mostly it was whether you won or not.” Only with much prompting did Addie share her story of the time when she tried to out-dress Gussy Moran by wearing a leopard skin outfit. (Jacoby 6). Addie also spoke of her experience during World War II. During a time when many women just began venturing out of the comfort of their own home,

Addie found herself “a lot a part of playing exhibitions for war relief and for the troops

[in Europe and Asia]” (Jacoby 8). She also explained to me that during the war, while the men, who had traditionally received the majority of the money, were at war, women athletes’ salaries were increased. During the interview Addie also spoke of her controversial suspension from the amateur league and her transition to the pros as well as the comparison of women in sports today.

Although throughout the century some women struggled with the restrictions of

“appropriate standards” and concerns of delicate women over-exerting themselves, it is important for historians to see a different side of the story (Woolum 8). In Addie’s opinion, “There wasn’t really that much [prejudice] that I ever felt. I remember women were pretty highly thought of. They couldn’t compete with men. I mean the good men were far better than the best women. But we had our own field” (Jacoby 26). The oral history project has shown me how valuable these accounts are. Without them, only part of the story would be told. For example, Addie shared her experience as a tennis player, but women baseball players may have had a very different experience. Addie explains that “There were tennis players and golfers and baseball players, but they were all different. The women tennis players I think were maybe above all the other women athletes. They really got more publicity and made more money than most of the top athletes in other sports” (Jacoby 27). Addie’s statement here may be the explanation for her contradictory experiences as a women athlete. As a tennis player, she may have been much better off than the girls of the All-American Girls Baseball League who had restrictions placed on their uniforms and appearances (Struna).

From the oral history project, I have learned that there is almost always another side of the story. I learned the importance of hearing direct accounts of history because the written histories we read are often full of interpretations and biases. I also learned that it is important to hear more than one perspective because of the different experiences that people may have. Through my interview with Pauline Betz Addie I learned that it is important for people to share their experiences so that we can understand who worked before us to make our lives the way they are. Appendix I Appendix II Appendix III Works Cited

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