Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 24 NOVEMBER 1966

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

1890 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

THURSDAY, 24 NOVEMBER, 1966 DISPLACEMENT OF RAILWAY STAFF ON SOUTH-WESTERN LINE Mr. Sullivan for Mr. Cory, pursuant to Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, notice, asked The Minister for Transport,- Murrumba) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m. In relation to dieselisation of the South­ Western Railway line, is he now in a QUESTIONS position, following my representations in April last and on a number of occasions WATER-CONSERVATION ScHEME, TowNs­ subsequently, to indicate the result of my VILLE PRISON FARM representations, particularly whether (a) Mr. Aikens, pursuant to notice, asked The there were discussions with the relevant Minister for Health,- railway unions as suggested by me and, if so, what was the outcome and (b) there is ( 1) Have considerable and effective any likelihood of a change in the numbers water-conservation schemes been installed of staff to be displaced at Warwick and at the farming area of the Townsville other depots? prison by the officers and inmates of the prison? Answer:- (2) If so, will he approach the Minister "Following the strong representations by for Primary Industries with a view to the Honourable Member, an examination arranging a "Field Day" for his Depart­ was made of the requests for the retention mental officers and interested farmers, so at Warwick of as many of the trainmen that they might benefit from an on-the-spot affected by dieselisation as possible. It has inspection and discussion of these projects now been decided that adjustments can be at the prison? made in the number of trainmen required to be stationed at Warwick, Wallangarra and Toowoomba. Eleven trainmen (four Answer:- drivers, four firemen and three guards) (1 and 2) "An excellent water conserva­ additional to those who were to be starioned tion scheme has been developed at Towns­ at Warwick under the original staff adjust­ ville Prison, with both a surface reservoir ment proposals will now be retained at that and underground supply of substantial depot, with a corresponding reduction in capacity. It is sufficient to meet the needs the number of additional trainmen to be of the Prison for irrigation purposes in placed at Toowoomba and Wallangarra. connection with its farming and agricultural At this moment, of the forty-one trainmen activities. The reservoir is presently being being withdrawn from Warwick, all but extended. Experimental fodder crops of five drivers and two firemen have been tropical legumes and the growing of allotted to other depots." certified vegetable seeds for the Department of Primary Industries are being undertaken at the present time. Officers of the Prisons PROVISION OF PUBLIC WEIGHBRIDGE, AYR Department have been working in close Mr. Coburn, pursuant to notice, asked co-operation with officers of the Primary The Minister for Mines,- Industries Department in the development As the weighbridge that was formerly of a substantial agricultuml area at Towns­ situated near the Ayr railway goods shed ville Prison. The Prisons Service is and was available for public use has been indebted to these officers for their advice dismantled and removed, leaving vehicle­ and assistance." owners of the town and district of Ayr without adequate weighing facilities, and as fines have been imposed on several vehicle­ GOVERNMENT ADMINISTRATIVE owners in Ayr recently for carrying loads ARRANGEMENTS in excess of the registered carrying Mr. Aikens, pursuant to notice, asked The capacities of their vehicles, will he provide Premier,- a suitable weighbridge for public use, preferably on the site where a weighbridge When were Honourable Members last was previously installed? supplied with a list of the Acts administered by the Departments and Sub-departments Answer:- controlled by each Minister and will he con­ "The provision of a weighbridge for use sider bringing this useful information up to by the public is not a function of either date? the Department of Mines or the Depart­ ment of Main Roads." Answer:- "Administrative arrangements are always GENERAL SCIENCE LABORATORY AT AYR published in the Queensland Government HIGH SCHOOL . Gazette, copies of which, of course, are freely available to Honourable Members. Mr. Coburn, pursuant to notice, asked The Additionally, a roneoed summary is Minister for Education,- periodically prepared by the State Public Are science lessons at the Ayr High Relations Bureau, the last one being School conducted in a room under the main produced in July 1966." school buildings under conditions that are Questions (24 NOVEMBER] Questions 1891

considered to be not entirely safe for this (2) "The contracts are as originally purpose? If so, will he approve of the negotiated except that sea transport to provision of an appropriate science block Burketown and Mornington Island is now there as soon as practicable? provided from Thursday Island instead of Normanton. The contract rates remain Answer:- unchanged." " One of the Science Laboratories at the Ayr High School is located under­ neath the building and as it was constructed WIND-DRIVEN SAND NUISANCE AT some years ago, it does not conform to PALLARENDA, ToWNSVILLE present day standards. There is no evidence Mr. Tucker, pursuant to notice, asked The available, however, to indicate that this Minister for Lands,- laboratory is unsafe. Plans have been prepared for the provision of a new General (1) Is he aware that some residents in Science Laboratory at the school and this the new areas opened by his Department work wm be put in hand as soon as the at Pallarenda, Townsville, are at times necessary funds can be allocated." annoyed and embarrassed by the wind­ driven sand which was used in the reclamation of the area? LIGHTING AND GROUNDS, WYNNUM (2) Could an inspection be carried out HIGH ScHooL with the object of devising some scheme Mr. Harris, pursuant to notice, asked The to alleviate the nuisance, which could affect Minister for Education, - future sales? Regarding requests made by the Wynnum State High School Parents' and Citizens' Answers:- Association,- ( I) "I am aware that the recent winds, ( I) Has his Department made a decision which are reported to have approached relative to their request on August I about speeds of 35 miles per hour for considerable lighting in the library and school rooms in periods, blew some surface material from "A" Block? If so, what is the decision? the further residential allotments presently (2) Relative to the advice received on being developed by my Department at July 3I that plans were being drawn for Pallarenda into several adjoining properties combating erosion and the putting down which were part of the initial development. of a bitumen surface in front of the school, A number of complaints of damage and when will this be effected? inconvenience from the wind-blown material have been made to my Department Answers:- which will offer to alleviate part of the ( I) "The long term policy with regard residents' problems by removing the wind­ to 'A' Block is to remodel it when funds blown material from their aiiotments in are available-remodelling to include the course of cleaning up and restoring the improvement of lighting and ventilation." new allotments to a satisfactory condition." (2) "Funds are not available at present (2) "The area has been inspected by for attention to be given to the grounds in the Land Commissioner, Townsviiie, who front of the school building. This work has reported that the combination of dry will, however, receive further consideration weather and prolonged high winds is the later in the current financial year in relation basic cause of the problem. Some dust to funds then available for works of this nuisance usually occurs during earthmoving nature." developments of this nature but if the present extreme conditions persist, possible sources of a heavier top-dressing material GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH KEITH less prone to wind movement will be HoLLANDs SHIPPING CoY. PTY. LTD. investigated. It is not possible to install sprinklers due to the water restrictions Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked applying in the area and I feel that only The Treasurer,- heavy rain will remove the problem." ( 1) What contracts are at present in existence between the Government and Keith Hollands Shipping Company for the VISITS BY DOCTOR TO MAGNETIC ISLAND transport of goods to Thursday Island and Gulf ports? Mr. Tucker, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Health,- (2) Have any contracts been negotiated with this company other than the origina:l ( 1) During the present month, how one for the transport of Government many weekly visits to Magnetic Island have supplies to Thursday Island? been made by the doctor delegated to do so from the Townsviiie General Hospital? Answers:- (2) How many hours does the doctor (! ) "Two--one for Thursday Island and spend at the Island during his visit and is one for Gulf centres and ports." the period considered adequate? 1892 Brisbane City [ASSEMBLY] Square Bill

Answer:- justification for the establishment of a car ( 1 and 2) "The Townsville Hospitals park under the surface of Albert Street and Board advises as follows:-The normal the use of that as the basis for its closure. weekly visits to Magnetic Island by the I think I also made it perfectly clear, doctor from Townsville Hospital are irrespective of the criticism directed at the scheduled for Tuesdays of each week. He Minister from the other side of the Chamber, arrives by boat at 2.40 p.m. and returns on that the powers and authorities conferred on the boat departing at 4.20 p.m. The period spent there is considered adequate. Due to the Minister under the Land Act to close the shortage of medical staff at Townsville roads, permanently or temporarily, are very Hospital, however, no visits have been limited. I think I also made it clear that the made by a medical officer to the Magnetic Minister would have great difficulty in Island Outpatients Clinic since October 25, applying the provisions of that Act to the 1966. A satisfactory service can be given closure of Albert Street. by the Matron there who is in direct Mr. Fletcher: I agree with you. contact by telephone with the medical superintendent of Townsville HospitaL" Mr. WALSH: Well, why all the talk about loose talk? The Minister would have great PAPERS difficulty in convincing a substantial section of the community in Brisbane that he could The following papers were laid on the certify that that part of Albert Street was table:- no longer required for public use, and that Proclamation under the Diseases in is one of the limitations imposed on the Plants Acts, 1929 to 1948. Minister relative to the implementation of Orders in Council under- the provisions of the Land Act. The Fauna Conservation Act of 1952. The Minister will not get away with it, The Meat Industry Act of 1965. either, by claiming that as the Brisbane City Council is the owner in fee simple of the Regulations under- land adjoining the part of Albert Street to The PTimary Producers' Organisation be closed, this makes a right of objection and Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1965. unnecessary. I remind the Minister-! am The Stock Acts, 1915 to 1965. sure he knows it already; I should not have to teach him his job, because he has been MARKETABLE SECURITIES BILL Minister for Lands for some time and he has some experienced advisers in the depart­ Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen­ ment-that it is specifically laid down in Minister for Justice): I move- section 363 of the Land Act that the person "That the House will, at its present sitting, owning the land in fee simple or holding it resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole under a lease from the Crown adjoining a to consider introducing a Bill relating to road is entitled to apply for the closure instruments of transfer of marketable of the road. If such an application were securities and for incidental and other made, the Minister would implement the purposes." procedure as laid down in that section of the Act and give notice to the public Motion agreed to. that the road was to be closed. The Minister may have noticed that I was very BRISBANE CITY SQUARE BILL careful earlier in the debate to say that. while a person may not have any legal RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE right to object, it has been conceded that (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, there is a moral right to object to the closure Greenslopes, in the chair) of any such road. Debate resumed from 23 November (see Mr. Aikens: Do you think the Minister p. 1889) on clause 2-Ciosure of Part of bothers about the opinions of the people? Albert Street- Mr. WALSH: The Minister has to take Mr. W ALSH: (Bundaberg) (11.17 a.m.): I some cognisance of the advice that is have a few points to make on this clause. tendered to him. However, in matters that It seeks to give to the Governor in Council the impinge on Government policy or on the power to close that part of Albert Street rights of the individual, the responsibility described in it. The Minister dealt fairlv rests on the shoulders of the _Minister, not extensively in his second-reading speech with on the shoulders of officers of his depart­ various points raised earlier in the debate, ment. It is not for the officers or the and I am inclined to the view that he was draftsman to say what shall be included in more concerned with the bouquets thrown in the Bill to protect the rights of members of his direction than with some of the justifiable the public; that is a matter of Government criticism directed at the contents of the Bill. policy. My main complaint is that, notwith­ The Minister even referred to "loose talk" standing the rights that have been extended concerning certain phases of the discussion. to members of the public relative to the I do not think I engaged in any of that. I closure of roads under the Land Act, no thou:>ht I made it perfectly clear that I was such right has been provided for in this in fz:vcur of a city square, but that I queried merrsure. Brisbane City [24 NovEMBER] Square Bill 1893

The Minister may say, "Well, the Brisbane point that I query the justification, because City Council has decided to close the road. I still suggest that the possibility of building It wants to close it." Again I say to him a car park over the river be explored. that, acting as arbiter between the council, The Minister will remember that in the an elected body, and those who elected it earlier stages of the Bill I mentioned a large it is his duty to determine whether or not car park built over a railway cutting in any of the rights of members of the public New South Wales. The area was used for are affected. The Minister knows only too the construction of a multiple-storey car well the procedure that he and former park. Ministers for Lands have followed in the closure of roads. It is all very well for him The CHAIRMAN: Order! I remind the to say that he intends to accept the local hon. member for Bundaberg that in the authority's view in the matter. I do not debate on this clause we are not discussing accept that. Parliament has to consider the the establishment of a car park. effect that such a closure will have on the community in general, and if an application Mr. WALSH: With all due respect, Mr. was made by any shire, town or city council Hooper, I understand that Albert Street is outside Brisbane for the closure of a road to be closed to provide for the establishment of a car park. I do not want to go into the either perm~nently or temporarily, and th~ general merits of the suggestion, but if we local authonty concerned was in favour of are to be limited strictly to discussing Albert it, the Minister would still have to make the Street without discussing the justification for final decision. The Minister knows very well its closure, I am afraid the debate will be that quite frequently he has been asked to very limited. make such a decision, and no doubt in some instances he has decided against the view of Mr. Nicklin: You had the opportunity the local authority. I should be very under the previous clause to discuss the surprised if he has not; I should be equally car park if you had wanted to. surprised if his predecessors have not taken similar action. Mr. WALSH: Excuse me, Mr. Premier~- Again, hon. members received an The CHAIRMAN: Order! assurance from the Minister at the second­ reading stage of the Bill. He said that all Mr. WALSH: Through you, Mif. Hooper, these things would have to be justified from the previous clause provided for the the Government's point of view before Albert proclamation of the Act. On this clause, Street would be closed. That would indicate strange as it may seem, somebody suggested of course, that because of the nature of th~ the building of a car park over the railway works to be undertaken there will be a cutting alongside the Canberra Hotel. considerable delay before Albert Street is closed. I think there will be what one might I still have some time up my sleeve. call a "cooling-off" period, which might Consequently, I make the point clear that I allow the Brisbane City Council to consider will vote against the Bill. I am surprised that whether or not there is some other place the A.L.P. Opposition has not taken a stand where it might establish a car park instead to see that there is contained in the legisla­ of disturbing Albert Street as it now is. tion a provision giving the public the right to object. I think the Minister agreed-if he did not expressly agree, at least he implied it-that Mr. BENNETT (South Brisbane) (11.29 if it were not for the underground car park, a.m.): Briefly, the obvious necessity for this Albert Street would not have to be closed clause is that the residents of Brisbane at this point. Is that correct? approve of a scheme that has been advanced by their representatives in the local authority Mr. Fletcher: It is not my business. sphere. I was rather amazed to hear a suggestion coming from the Government Mr. WALSH: Surely the Minister has benches that the scheme is purely non­ some views on it. He is the responsible political and that politics should not enter representative of the Government who is into it. If that is so, I cannot understand asking this Parliament to give effect to what why this clause is not to be promulgated is proposed in the Bill. Surely to goodness until after the next Brisbane City Council the Minister has some views on it. I do not election. want him to get into any fight. He has enough fight coming from those on my left The proposal is either good or bad. If it is without my inviting him to enter into a good it should be implemented as soon as fight with the Lord Mayor and his council. possible; if it is bad it should not be con­ But I think he said something that probably sidered at all. Why it has to bear the politic:1l indicates that he is not wedded to any part taint of not being proclaimed until after the of the scheme. He said it is a matter for next Brisbane Citv Council election, I fail to the local authority; but I think we want understand. I think the Minister should something more than that. It must be up to explain his reasoning for the delay in the the Government, or to the Minister to put implementation of the proposal because of a to Cabinet at some time that it is essential pending Brisbane City Council election. Does to close A lbert Street on the justification of he intend to completely destroy the purpose establishing a car park there. It is on this of the Bill by refusing to proclaim clause 2 1894 Brisbane City [ASSEMBLY] Square Bill

if the Brisbane City Council election does not previous Labour administrations being sold go the way he feels at the present time it will by the C.M.O. administration for private go? business purposes. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ As a Parliament, we should not only ber for South Brisbane is discussing clause 1. comply with the wishes of the present Bris­ I point out that clause 2 is presentLy before bane City Council administration but we the Committee. should also ensure that future council administrations will not frustrate the Mr. BENNETT: I am accepting what the expressed intention in the alienation of this Minister said about clause 1. :It seems rather land. I could mention land in my own futile to be considering clause 2 if the Minis­ electorate at the present time. It was ter meant what he said about clause 1. My acquired for park and recreational purposes attitude is that if he is going to delay-- by the Brisbane City Council, but it was subsequently sold by the Groom C.M.O. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I am afraid I administration to a local supporter of the cannot allow the hon. member for South C.M.O. for subdivisional purposes. I think Brisbane to discuss clause 1. That clause has we are taking a distinct risk in allowing been dealt with by the Committee; clause 2 is land of this nature to be placed in the hands now being discussed. If the hon. member con­ of a possible future businessmen's organisa­ fines his remarks to the closure of part of tion. They could poss1bly sell it for business Albert Street I will allow him to continue. purposes. Mr. BENNETT: With respect, Mr. Hooper, They are the only two points I wish to I certainly hope that I am not to be ham­ make. I believe the Minister should clearly strung in such a debate. I am accepting the indicate why he intends to delay the imple­ fact that clause 1 has been adopted, subject mentation of clause 2 if, in fact, he believes to the conditions as outlined by the Minister. in principle that it is the correct thing to do. Accepting those conditions, I am now con­ sidering clause 2. My submission is that if Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham­ what the Minister said about clause 1 is right, Minister for Lands) (1,1.36 a.m.): I am not it is quite futile to consider clause 2 until altogether surprised at the outburst of the after the Brisbane City Council election. I hon. member for South Brisbane. submit that clause 1 is particularly relevant Mr. Bennett: It was not an outburst; it to clause 2, which means nothing unless the was simply a contribution. Act is proclaimed. We are merely engaging in an academic debate designed to palliate Mr. FLETCHER: It sounded like an out­ the feelings of Brisbane citizens when in fact, burst; it is just a matter of standards. The depending on the result of the Brisbane City reason for it, of course, is that he was Council election, it is not really intended to speaking what I might call "in absentia" implement clause 2. I think that is the guts because he has not been here to listen to of the Bill. The guts of the Bill depends upon the debate and understand it. On reading when it is to be implemented. If it is to be through the debat·e it be·comes crystal clear implemented in 10 years' time we need not that the proclamation is likely to be deferred consider it at all. However, if it is to be -I said it as an expr.ession of opinion­ implemented next week it is a very important beyond the next council election, and then matter, and we should give some practical I said, as a further expression of opinion, consideration to the adoption of clause 2. that the matter could be decided when it That is the point I make. Why should clause comes up as a matter of Council policy to 2 be relegated into the field of politics? Why test the idea politically. That was only an should the Minister decide to delay its expression of opinion-it is not a fact­ implementation for political purposes? That is arising out of the practical difficulties of the point I want to make. As the hon. mem­ tying up all the ends and making quite ber for Sandgate has said, this is at the sure there is no interruption in the flow of direction of the Liberal .Party executive. traffic. In my opinion, this will take so long The other point I wish to make is that I that it will carry past the date of the next am strongly in favour of the Australian council election. I do not blame the hon. Labour Party's policy on the alienation of member for not having gathered this. How­ Crown land, that is, that it should not be ever, apart from his not being able to hear alienated in fee simple but should be alienated the debate, if he had read it he would have as a Crown lease. With respect, I think this known exactly what it was all about. alienation should be no exception to that The hon. member for Bundaberg scarcely principle. displayed his usual acuteness in this mattt:r, I realise that the present administration of because we find that what he brought up m the Brisbane City Council definitely intends his reasons are the difficulties, if not the to carry out the expressed programme relative impossibilities, of doing what he himself has to this land. On the other hand, I have had suggested is difficult under the ordinary the sad and shocking experience, as a provisions of the Land Act. We just had to member of the Opposition in the Brisbane do it this way; he has conceded that, but he City Council when the C.rM.O. was in raised it again. He also invited me to express administration, of seeing land like this that an opinion as to whether there should be a had been acquired for public purposes by car park, or what sort of a car park there Brisbane City (24 NOVEMBER] Square Bill 1895

should be underneath the square. I have residential zones was subdivided for resi­ ex;plained over and over again that the council dential purposes. If it were required for is entitled to do what it, in its responsibility, subdivision into, say, industrial lots, and was thinks nece·ssary for Brisbane. H it builds zoned as residential, then this certainly under the square a black car park or a would require an amendment of the Town silver car park, as I have said all through the Plan, and the bringing into operation of the debate, that, in my opinion, is its business lengthy processes involved in amending the and responsibility. I do not think I can say plan. anything more than that. For the benefit of the hon. member I say The same remarks apply to what the hon. -and again I hope it is for the last time­ member for Mt. CooHha told us yesterday. that roads are not zoned, rezoned, or closed To me, he seemed to go over the same old under the Town Plan. Unrequired roads, points again and again. I do not know that or roads replaced by the provision of alter­ I should keep the Committee too long in native roads, are being closed every day. answering what I think has already been They are not closed by amendment of the completely answered. Town Plan, nor is amendment of the Town Plan necessary to close them. Mr. Wadsh: How many people do you think would be likely to object? The objective of the Town Plan is to ensure the planned and regulated develop­ Mr. FLETCHER: I have already given ment of the metropolis, and the method of adequate, and, to my mind, full and cogent achieving this objective is by zoning lands reasons why this should be done in all these according to the uses to which they are to circumstances. I am the strongest protagonist be put. of the right to object, as indeed is the hon. There are 16 zones, as fo!lows:­ member who asked me the question. I have dealt with that point, and I do not think Non-urban, which is coloured light blue; I should have to go over it again. Future urban, which is coloured light scarlet with a brown edge; To .put it as clearly and as succinctly as I can, for the last time I say that the ·Bill deals Residential, which is coloured light with that portion of Albert Street known as scarlet; King George Square. I do not really need to Central business, which is coloured light tell hon. members that, because they know it. blue; I suggest that the hon. member for Mt. and so on. Roads are not zon~.-d or required Coot-tha might listen to this, because it is to be rezoned under the plan. If every road appropriate to what he said. The area is closure in the City of Brisbane required shown on the Brisbane Town Plan as King the lengthy processes of amendment of George Square. It has the wo11ds "King the Town Plan to be put into effect, George Square" written across the Town Plan. administration would be bogged down I repe·at that the area referred to in the to its axles and the purpose of the Bill is shown on the Town Plan as King plan as a benefit to the city, would be George Square. submerged and probably lost in the morass. Mr. Walsh: Including the road? I repeat that the area in question is presently shown on the Town Plan in clear and Mr. FLETCHER: Including the road. unmistakable language-! saw it this morn­ The·refore, for the last time-and I hope ing-as King George Square. I reject the it is the last time I need to say it to the hon. member's suggestion that legislative hon. member-! say that I cannot see any machinery and fairly long processes should reason why I should accept the hon. member's be provided to change King George Square suggestion that we should chang·e the Town from King George Square to King George Plan. His suggestion arises out of a complete Square. misunderstanding of the objectives of town The hon. member for Mt. Coot-tha sug­ planning and the legislation controlling the gested that the drafting of clause 2 of the planning of this fair city of Brisbane. Bill would be improved by inserting after the Mr. Wal.sh: There will be no legal access word "and" in line 8 an agglomeration of for v·ehicles. words; I shall not bore the Committee by reading them. In the opinion of my advisers Mr. FLETCHER: That is another point, if we made this amendment it would con­ and I have adequately covered it. found, probably to the point of utter con­ Since the inception of the Town Plan hun­ fusion, the meaning of the clause. That is dreds of land subdivisions have been effected, the considered opinion of experts who, in hundreds of new roads have been opened, spite of assertions to the contrary, a:re not and goodness knows how many roads have inexpert in their job. been closed. They are not recorded on In the grammatical construction of words, the Town Plan, nor are they required to be if we accepted the hon. member's proposal recorded on the Town Plan by amendment some pretty startling results would flow. of the plan or in any other way. However, Firstly, the Act would be proclaimed in force every such subdivision was made in accord­ and the road would be closed, and the land ance with town planning and the town plan­ comprised in the road closed would be sus­ ning ordinances. For instance, land in pended in air like Mahomet's coffin until the 1896 Brisbane City Council [ASSEMBLY] Square Bill

council satisfied the Government in respect One becomes accustomed in this place to of an unassorted variety of ponderables and, being praised by the Minister if one agrees I might say, imponderables, arising out of with him. If one disagrees with the the use of the phrase, "All claims for com­ Minister, who acts only on the advice of pensation whatever", without any sort of his advisers because he is incapable of list or distinction. acting on his own ,knowledge, one i:s always wrong. One difficulty that the hon. member's sug­ gestion would entail, and which he has not The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. foreseen, probably because he does not member for Mt. Coot-tha to withdraw that understand it, is that there is, I am advised, remark concerning the Minister. It is no authority in law for the council to carry offensive. out some of the ponderables, and likewise Mr. LICKISS: I will withdraw it, but l to carry out the imponderables on which hope the Minister will be a little more careful it is to satisfy the Government. in future in the phraseology that he uses I am very happy with one result of concerning my capacity. I have been in this rather long-winded and wordy debate. this business quite a lot longer than he and some of his chief advisers have been. Mr. Walsh: It is an important debate, too. The hon. member for South Brisbane said he does not believe that the land should Mr. FLETCHER: Very important. Its be vested in the Brisbane City Council in most important result, however, is that it the title of fee simple. It is obvious that has given to those outside Parliament who a request was made to the Government take an interest in what goes on here a for the land to be so vested in unrestricted clear idea of the real standard of the title of fee simple. This is very unusual self-styled experts whose advice I and my in the case of a local authority, because department, and some other Ministers and land usually is vested in such a body by their departments, are getting from some deed of grant in trust. There is a great of the members of this Assembly. deal of merit in what the hon. member Mr. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha) (11.46 a.m.): for South Brisbane said about the way in It is with complete regret that I again have which this land is to be held. I have no to correct the Minister and, if necessary, his complaint about it, because it is obvious advisers. I take with a grain of salt some that an amalgamation of title is necessary of the remarks of a personal nature that he for the city square; but under normal has made. circumstances I would agree with the hon. member that it would be better to give Mr. Tucker: You are lucky he didn't the council a deed of grant in tmst. make a lot more. Mr. Walsl:J: Are you suggesting that the Mr. LICKISS: The hon. member for Labour Council is acting contrary to the Townsville North can mind his own business. policy of the Labour Party? I am prepared to be judged on my knowledge of these matters by people who count, and Mr. LICKISS: Of course 1t is in this in that I discount the Minister. instance. I think the hon. member for South Brisbane would be the first to admit that if Let me put the record straight concerning the council did not believe in holding land in King George Square. All who know anything fee simple, it could easily surrender its about land administration know that what present title to the purchased area of Alb.ert is dealt with is the legal status of the land, Street by transferring it to the Crown. The not its name. I challenge the Minister to land would then become Crown land in the show that King George Square, or whatever true sense and deeds of grant in trust could it might be named, is not a public road. be given over that portion of the city square. It is now allotment 21 of section XI, City of Brisbane. It is proposed to change that The Minister saw fit to deal with the ques­ area of land from a public road to land tion of strata. As this is mOtre pertinent vested in the Brisbane City Council in title under the next clause, I shall deal with it of fee simple. The road will be closed when dealing with the deed of grant. I and no longer will access as permitted on a wish to impress on the Minister that I am not public road be available. This is a major concerned about what view he holds of my change in the Town Plan. It is an amend­ capacity in this respect. I do not think I ment in the use to which the land is have asked at any stage for anything other presently put. If the Minister says there is than to be judged by the public generally on to be no change of purpose, why worry my knowledge. If I might refer the Minister about closing the road? to an editorial in a leading country-wide In cold facts, this is the situation. What­ newspaper, it is apparent that I have been ever name be given to this area of land. judged diff.erently by that newspaper than I its legal status is a public road, and this is have by the Minister. the issue. It is proposed to close it, and, in As I said earlier, the clear-cut case here doing so, make it Crown land alienated in an is that, whatever name the land is given, the estate in fee simple to the Brisbane City legal status of land is what matters. It Council. This statement of not changing the could be called Buckingham Square or any status from one thing to some other thing is other name; it would not matter. My con­ so much nonsense. tention is that, once the road is closed, the Brisbane City [24 NOVEMBER] Square Bill 1897

land becomes unzoned land within the city pun, perhaps I should suggest that we be of Brisbane and within the area controlled careful we do not get too many "mayors" and by the Town Plan Act. It will have to be not enough good old working horses. given a purpose, and it will be given that pur­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. pose under the provisions of the City of member is not dealing with the clause. Brisbane Town Planning Act. If it is sug­ gested that that is unnecessary, I suggest that Mr. PORTER: I am saying that the the Brisbane City Council could in fact build council intends to use the land as a car park, a factory on it. It is being given unrestricted and I do not go along with the view that the freehold title to the land, which is unzoned. Government is not concerned; it is. This What is the Minister's attitude to that? It is Government passed the Town Planning Act. evidence of the need to amend the Town That is an indication of our concern. I agree Plan. It should be amended for a specified with the hon. member for Bundaberg that we purpose, and the Government has laid down are the fountainhead from which power flows that the Town Plan shall be amended under for local authority to do things, and we the provisions of the City of Brisbane Town cannot escape the essential responsibility Planning Act of 1964. that we have as the source of power. That Clause 2, as read, agreed to. is why I think we have to be concerned with whatever result may flow from our actions Clause 3-Deed of grant- and with the council's use of the piece of land with which we are dealing. Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (11.54 a.m.): I like to think .that the purpose of town­ This clause vests in the council the full title planning and all the ancillary services that to the land, so I think hon. members will flow from it are concerned with human recognise that under it the Brisbane City welfare. Like a refreshing breeze we have Council is given the sole prerogative of decid­ had in the past few days a visit from an ing what the future purpose of the land shall eminent town planner from the lovely city be. of Perth, and it reminded us that the purpose of planning was not for buildings, or free­ That brings me to a point that I mentioned ways, or car parks, or even for Lord Mayors, earlier in the debate, so I shall deal with it but for people. I believe that, as a Govern­ only briefly: that, in theory, the Government ment, we must be concerned with what is should not interfere with things that are done done. We would want to be sure that what in Brisbane by the Brisbane City Council is done with this piece of land will ensure because they are exclusively the concern of that the citizens of Brisbane are able to lead the Brisbane City Council, not of the Parlia­ a fuller life in the future. Certainly, if I may ment or of the Government. Here the make a very rough prophecy, I should think Minister and I agree to disagree. We do that it is very likely from the discussion that not fight over it; I should not like hon. has ensued in this Parliament that King members opposite to think we do. It is just George Square in the future will not be a diiierence of philosophic opinion. The totally closed to through traffic. Minister probably has the majority of mem­ bers in this Chamber on his side, but I Mr. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha) (11.58 a.m.): should like to hear the opinion of the public As the hon. member for Toowong has men­ on the question. Parliament has a responsi­ tioned, clause 3, under the heading "Deed of bility in this matter, because it was Parlia­ grant", sets out the conditions under which ment that created the municipal monstrosity a deed of grant in fee simple will be vested that controls Greater Brisbane. I suggest in the Brisbane City Council. We are deal­ that a Government that is dedicated to the ing with the actual title, and I should like to progress and prosperity of the State and that recall the remarks of the Minister when he recognises Brisbane as the very core and said that I had somewhat changed my heart of its economic, financial and industrial ground on this matter of substrata title. The fabric, has to be concerned with what is Minister said I had changed from dealing done, in major ways, in Brisbane-and this with substrata title in fee simple to leasehold. is certainly a major matter. The matter of I do not like having to give him ,1nother being concerned is in accordance with well­ lesson in land administration and land-title established precedent in the relationship handling, but it must be readly realised that between government and local government a lease over land conferring alienation of ever since the pattern of municipal authority rights is possible only if the holder of the was established in this State. land who gives the !.ease holds a superior title to the land. Also, as has been stated we The Minister referred in the earlier stages know that the proposed use of this land is to the fact that there are many in this for the construction of a building partially Chamber with local-authority experience who underground, the roof of which is to be the support him. I would not doubt that that is city square, and on part of the land is to be true, and I do not mean it unkindly when I built a Commonwealth Bank Vault contained suggest that perhaps those who are saturated within the structur.e. I mentioned that in the with local-government experience are not in initial stages when I made my recommenda­ the best position to give the kind of judgment tion on the general principle, and if the we want. because they cannot see the wood Minister would like to check on it, he for the trees. If I might make a shocking will see that I referred to the need for a 1898 Brisbane City [ASSEMBLY] Square Bill

review of the land resumption laws. That is There still would appear to be some long overdue. W·e need a single land resump­ difficulty in the way of alienation of part of tion Act for the whole of Queensland. I the land and to reserve portion of it (the pointed out that with the more sophisticated roof of the structure) for a city square. It method of land handling-this is applicable was in a spirit of co-operation that I men­ to every other State, and I hope my words tioned that point. As a guide to the Minister, wiJI not be twisted-it is realised by those I referred also to subsequent land dealings who take an interest in these matters tha·t in which might be necessary in relation to a the future it will be necessary to go under­ proposal associated with Anzac Square and ground, figuratively speaking. In the future possible other like projects. we will deal in sub-surface strata; we will I do not object to this. It is positive build under roads, leaving the roads on top planning, forward planning, and the type of open for public use. It was in this spirit that planning that is essential with a more I said we should give some consideration to modified approach to city life and city this problem. design. In all of this we come to a more I have passed the stage of regretting that complicated system of land administration. I the Minister has seen fit to twist my words, say this with respect to the Brisbane City but if I referred at one stage to leasehold and Council: it is just not good enough, for if we at another stage to freehold, let me put the are to be bona fide in our efforts to give record straight. This normally would not be the council the wherewithal to do what it necessary. If we are to deal in title in wishes to do-something that is its inherent strata-the hon. member for South Brisbane right to do provided the law is adhered to­ will be aware of this--one must have a we should give it a free hand and superior title before one can give an inferior not tie it down so that it will have to take title by way of leasehold. If the council the more difficult approach to achieve the wishes to sublease part of a stratum for a desired result. That is the spirit in which I Commonwealth Bank vault, which would be set out to approach the Bill, and I regret that part and parcel of the parking station, then personalities came into the debate. it might be necessary for it to give a I think I should correct the Minister's registrable lease, and we know that a statement that I have now changed my registrable lease is facilitated if it can be ground and am dealing with freehold rather incorporated by registration on the title. than leasehold. In land administration, I I should like to make it quite clear that say generally that if the council is to be I have not dealt with this matter on a vested with fee simple in the land it will be political basis. Nowhere will it be found that entitled to alienate lessor rights available I have objected to this land being handed over and register those lessor rights by way of to the Brisbane City Council. Nowhere will leasehold on the title. It is preferable for anyone find that I have objected to the land those rights to be registered on the title for being handed over to the Brisbane City the safeguard of the persons who have the Council for the purpose of a city square or Jeas.e. I feel that only time will prove I am car park. I said that as a duly elected body right in the matter of section 49F v. section in this city it had certain rights and responsi­ 32 ( 4) of the Local Government Act. Here. bilities and that what it did with the land again, this information was given in the spirit was its prerogative, or words to that effect, of assisting the Minister and I again regret provided the Jaw was adhered to. I hope that p.ersonalities entered into it. that will be checked. I should like to say that if we are to assist One reason I have attacked the proposed the council to comply with the law, and if, legislation is the method adopted by it. I as a Government, we are to insist that the have pointed ·out that in giving this title laws we lay down are to be heeded, I should we aPe still bound to make .subsequent prefer to see clause 3 worded in this way- amendments to other legislation. It is under "3. Deed of grant. Subject to the Brisbane section 49 of the Local Government Act that City Council complying with the provisions we wiJI be able to give a 75-year lease. It of the Brisbane Town Planning Act of 1964 is all very well for the Minister to say he and subject to Brisbane City Council paying rests heavily on his advisers. I did not want the appropriate deed and assurance fees, the to attack them at all, but the Minister-- Governor in Council shall issue to it a deed of grant comprising the said land." Mr. Walsh: I think you made some references to them that were not justified. I believe that would have been a very simple way for the Government to say to the Mr. LICKISS: If I did I will withdraw council, "We are prepared to meet you; we them, but the Minister's advisers are being are prepared to go along with you in what referred to repeatedly. you intend to do. But we insist that you Mr. Walsh: They cannot reply. comply with the Jaws of the land." As I said, that could have been done under section Mr. LICKISS: No, but they reply through 6 of the Brisbane Town Planning Act. I do the Minister. From memory, I think it is not think it would have imposed any great section 49F of the Local Government Act hardship on the council. I believe that if that wiiJ have to be amended from "30 this proposal had been put to the council it years" to "7 5 years" to enable the council would have readily agreed to go along with to alienate certain parts of this land. this line of approach. Brisbane City [24 NOVEMBER Square Bill 1899

I do not want to make things difficult, but The hon. member for Ipswich East knows it is silly for the sovereign Government to that there are a good many of them in make the laws of the land and then be the his electorate covering coal mining. first to try to jump over them when it does Suggestions have been made about not wish to abide by them. democratic usage. The hon. member for In this matter I have only tried to point Toowong said that his only attitude was out, with some backing and some little that in the use of the proposed square the experience-obviously not enough for the people of Brisbane should have an opportunity Minister to pay heed to-that this is done to lead a fuller life. We all stand for generally in land administration in other that ideal. Our democratic institutions, of States and, I should hope, in this State. It which the Brisbane City Council is not is a sensible approach. This is merely an an unimportant member, have this concept in administrative matter and I do not think it getting in Brisbane the best use of such areas. should have been necessary for it to come Clause 3, as read, agreed to. to this Assembly. The fact that it has come Clause 4-Reservations and conditions- here really spells out-and I think the hon. member for Bundaberg has taken the point Mr. WALSH (Bundaberg) (12.12 p.m.): quite well-that it was necessary for it to I rise to give the Minister an opportunity come here because our normal, general of conveying to hon. members on his legislation is inadequate. I favour an amend­ side of the Chamber some of the protection ment of the general legislation and have that is still left in the hands of the Minister said so. and the Governor in Council. The Minister could inform the Committee whether the Mr. Walsh: We would have to be wary of reservations made in clause 4 include all of that. the powers already exercised by the Governor Mr. LICKISS: Yes, we would. in Council over land held in fee simple, such as the numerous parks in the city, and We should write the protection into the whether, before a lease is granted by the general legislation. council, it is subject to the approval of the I know that in the Northern Territory the Governor in Council. It would be of some Commonwealth has a special ordinance-the satisfaction to hon. members to know that Opening and Closing of Roads Ordinance­ there is such a reservation in this clause, which was considered to be necessary there, which reads- and there was never any criticism of the " . . . the deed of grant comprising the procedure. The rights of the individual are said land shall be issued subject to such protected, and what we are doing here would reservations and conditions as are have flowed as normal administrative action. authorized or prescribed by 'The Land Acts, 1962 to 1965' or any other Act." I regret the delay in the passage of this That would include the Local Government Bill through the Chamber. I hope it will Act or any other Act governing the powers of spell out a lesson in matters of a recurring local authorities. I should like the Minister administrative nature. When we are dealing to elaborate on this clause, because the with these matters we are really dealing with Government is in effect granting another legal status of land and in relation to the subsidy to the Brisbane City Council by interests of the public. I hope we will giving it, subject to its paying the appropriate never again see such a Bill in this Chamber. deed and assurance fees, a valuable piece I hope that good sense will prevail on all of land in the heart of the city. Never­ future occasions, and that we may provide theless, clause 4 would indicate that the the necessary power within th, general legis­ Governor in Council, under the relevant lation to carry out the wishes of the people. Acts, has to exercise some authority. That is what I thought this Government always set out to do. In all legislation, Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham­ particularly in town planning legislation, Minister for Lands) (12.14 p.m.): The hon. great stress is placed on the right of the member for Bundaberg knows as weii as individual to at least determine in some small any other hon. member that certain conditions way his future in this city. are laid down by the Local Government Act and the Land Act. Relative to freehold Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham­ land, there are very few reservations. They Minister for Lands) (12.1 0 p.m.): I have deal only with the right to dig for already given my thoughts on the point petroleum or coal. of view expressed by the hon. member Mr. Walsh: The council cannot lease for Toowong. I respect it, but I cannot Davies Park, for instance. agree with it. Mr. FLETCHER: That is under the Land For the purpose of advising members Act. There are many Acts-I could not of the Committee who may be getting mention them all-that govern the powers confused about the whole thing by now, of local authorities. There are very few I say that I do not think there is any conditions relating to the control of fee-simple real problem about title. I have been land, and they concern mainly the right informed that strata titles give title to various to take minerals. levels above ground level. As hon. members Clause 4, as read, agreed to. know, there are also underground !itles, and there have been no problems wrth them. Bill reported, without amendment. 1900 Inspection of Machinery Acts [ASSEMBLY] and Another Act, &c., Bill

INSPECTION OF MACHINERY ACTS notice. This is satisfactory in the metropolitan AND ANOTHER ACT AMENDMENT area, except in the absence of the Chief :BILL Inspector, but is impracticable in most country districts. The amendment also INITIATION IN COMMITIEE enables the Chief Inspector to authorise (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, another inspector to issue such a notice in Greenslopes, in the chair) his absence, or if the other inspector is located in a country district. Hon. J. D. HERBERT (Sherwood­ In relation to the following up of motor Minister for Lalxmr and Tourism) (12.17 vehicle repairs, at present the Chief Inspector p.m.): I move-- and inspectors of machinery have no juris­ "Th:at a Bill be introduced to amend the diction to follow up any repair demands on Inspection of Machinery Acts, 1951 to private motor vehicles that have been sent in 1963, and the Inspection of Scaffolding for inspection by a member of the Police Acts, 19'15 to 1963, each in certain Department. A new section, 44 (A), has particulars." been included, and the proposed amendment It is proposed to make certain amendments gives the necessary authority by applying with a view to enabling these Acts to conform sections 24 and 25 of the Act in a manner to present-day requirements, and also to similar to that in which section 44 applies. clarify the position concerning owner­ This means in fact that once a vehicle has responsibility in certain instances. reported as directed, the department becomes responsible for ensuring that the necessary A definition of "escalator" has been repairs are effected. inserted, because there is no reference to this machine in the present Act. Escalators In regard to notices to repair second-hand are increasing in numbers, and are inspected motor vehicles, the power to issue orders for in the same way as lifts. They are cove!'ed by repair on cars for sale in used-car dealers' the S.A.A. Lift Code, and regulations must premises is being extended to any inspector. be drafted under the Act to cover them. This is what is done in fact, although the present wording requires each action to be a Provision is also being made to prohibit personal one by the Chief Inspector. The males as well as females from working near proposed amendment, therefore, clarifies pro­ machinery unless long hair that they may have cedures without amending the intent of the is securely fixed and confined. This provision section. has recently been introduced in New South Wales, and consideration is also being given With the introduction of the Decentralisa­ to this point in Victoria. Whilst verbal tion of Magistrates' Courts Act of 1965, the inquiries of the Queensland Chamber of requirement under the present Act would be Manufactures indicate that at present there for all proceedings for the recovery of fees is no problem in this regard, it is considered to be taken in the Magistrates Court district desirable to make this amendment. Cases in which the debtor resided. This could be have been reported from overseas of males impossible administratively, as some debts are being caught in machines. A haircut will for only $1.50 and the person concerned may prevent this possibility. live in Mt. lsa. Virtually all these proceedings are ex parte, and the Department of Justice At yresent, section 30 provides that has agreed that action can be taken in any inspectJOns of machinery shall be made division of the Brisbane district or any other between the hours of 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. on district. any day. This makes no allowance for days that are not normal working days, such as A similar amendment is proposed in the Saturdays, Sundays and statutory holidays, Inspection of Scaffolding Acts. An addi­ and also does not allow for the application tional paragraph is being included relative to of penalty fees for inspections during these facilitation of proof. It is to the effect that times at the owner's request. Owners have a declaration by any person that he has been undertaking to pay such penalty fees delivered or posted a notice or order can be and, in order to legalise this procedure, this produced as evidence of such act. This is section is to be amended so that it- necessary and desirable in cases where action is taken to prosecute a person for not present­ (a) Retains the hours of 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., ing a motor vehicle for inspection after notice but excepts Saturdays, Sundays and has been sent in the manner prescribed by holidays; the Act. A similar provision is contained in (b) provides that inspections outside these other Acts. hours will be carried out at the request The provlS!ons concerning fencing of of the owner, and that additional fees may machinery and relating to doorways and be charged. floor openings, protection of hoists and lifts, Section 44 (1), which relates to the inspection unsafe and dangerous lifts, and the restric­ of motor vehicles, provides that the Chief tion of the employment of minors and Inspector may, by notice delivered to the females, have been amended to place obliga­ owneT of any motor vehicle, require that tions on the owner in this regard without owner to produce that vehicle for inspection removing the obligation of the operator or at a time and place. This means that the attendant to retain guards or other fencing in Chief Inspector personally must sign every position. A similar provision is contained in Inspection of Machinery Acts [24 NovEMBER] and Another Act, &c., Bill 1901 other Acts. The present provision simply Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays, and says, for instance, "Machinery shall be provides that inspections outside these hours guarded", but does not specify whose respon­ will be carried out at the request of the sibility it is to do so. owner and additional fees may be charged. Apparently the previous procedure was for I commend the Bill to the Committee. the owner to pay these fees voluntarily. Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) (12.23 Mr. Herbert: That is the reason for it. p.m.): The Opposition cannot find anything very wrong in the provisions as outlined by Mr. TUCKER: Apparently the payment of the Minister. It appears that most of them fees is to be made mandatory if inspections are of a machinery nature. However, hon. are carried out under the Act. members on this side of the Chamber will examine the Bill carefully after it is printed Mr. Herbert: We have not yet had anyone and make sure that it does not contain any who has refused to pay, but people could provisions that are contrary to the policy of legally refuse. the A.L.P. At the moment, they seem to be Mr. TUCKER: I see that now. very fair; they probably will meet with the Opposition's approval. Mr. Herbert: We have had one or two The Minister mentioned certain machinery who queried whether they were legally bound that has not been covered by the Inspection to pay, so we are putting the position beyond of Machinery Act or the Inspection of doubt. Scaffolding Act-escalators, and so on. It Mr. TUCKER: There could be a possibility is quite understandable that, in this modern day and age, such an amendment should be that some of these people might not pay the necessary to cover this, and possibly similar fees and we are making it mandatory? amendments will be required in the future to Mr. Herbert: There is always a possibility deal with machinery that has not yet been that amongst mainly reasonable employers seen in Australia, especially when automation there will be one who is unreasonable. becomes more widespread. It is rather novel to propose amendments Mr. TUCKER: I concede that. This would to the Act relating to the need to keep the cover that possibility. hair of males out of machinery. There is, of course, a tendency for young males to I do not think we could have any argument wear their hair long and for older people to with the delegation by the Chief Inspector regard this as rather queer. But when we to inspectors of the right to order the delivery look at the matter objectively, we remember or production of motor vehicles for inspection that many years ago men wore their hair at a certain time and place. Previously the long, and the fashion is reappearing today. Chief Inspector was required to sign notices personally, but he can now delegate the It is a practical approach to this matter authority to any inspector. to say that we should afford protection to those who today feel that they should wear Mr. Herbert: That would be in country their hair in a style different from that of areas; he can still do it in the metropolitan people who conform generally to old conven­ area. tions. I have heard of accidents to some of these young people when working with Mr. TUCKER: It will allow our inspectors machinery, and the Opposition feels that this in Townsville to sign these notices? measure is necessary to ensure the safety of those who work, no matter what their hair Mr. Herbert: That is right. style may be. I do not think that in a democracy we should be able to say that any Mr. TUCKER: I think that is a good idea. youngster should have to conform to any It is decentralisation and it assuredly allows regulation in regard to hair style, but when inspectors in the far-flung areas of the State the question of safety is involved I agree to act quickly in this regard and not to have that there should be some provision to ensure to wait for notices that have been signed that when a young man is working with by the Chief Inspector in Brisbane. There machines he is working in perfect safety. again, I have no argument with the provision. In country districts it is a very practical There is one point I did not quite grasp. approach and meets with the approval of the Perhaps the Minister might elaborate on it Opposition, particularly of those members in his reply. It deals with the inspection of who have seen hold-ups of this nature when machinery between the hours of 6 a.m. and all these things are centralised in Brisbane. 6 p.m. on any day, and the fees that are payable. He said that the existing Act makes The next point I wish to make concerns no allowance for days that are not normally the vehicle that has been sent in for an working days. such as Saturday. Sunday, and inspection. Apparently once an order is statutory holida\s. I think the Minister said issued by the Police Department for an that owners have been undertaking to pay inspection and for repairs to be carried out nenalty fees for inspections outside those there is at present no follow-up. hours, but in order to legalise the procedure the section is being amended. It retains the Mr. Herbert: The police have the power hours of 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. but excepts to follow it up. 1902 Inspection of Machinery Acts [ASSEMBLY] and Another Act, &c., Bill

Mr. TUCKER: The Minister is bringing The Minister referred to action to be in this Bill to make it mandatory on his taken to prosecute a person for not presenting own department? The responsibility of a motor vehicle for inspection after notice following it up will be on the Minister's own has been sent in the manner prescribed by department? the Act. I did not quite grasp that provision. Mr. Herbert: Yes. Mr. Herbert: They get three reminders before the action is taken. Mr. TUCKER: I think the idea of motor vehicle inspections is a very good one. There Mr. TUCKER: I see. could be more defective vehicles on the road than we realise. Not all the carnage on the Generally speaking, the amendments are road can be attributed to the defective state designed for the safety of workers in of vehicles, but the poor condition of some industry, the safety of those who may be using machinery and the safety of those vehicles must have a bearing on it. The who may have to use escalators and lifts. Opposition believes that in order to reduce The Minister has been specific in regard to the carnage on the road the inspection of persons who are responsible for guarding vehicles and the follow-up procedure to machinery. I notice that he is placing an ensure that any necessary repairs are carried obligation on the owner, without removing out are both very desirable. the obligation on the operator or attendant, Apparently inspectors will be able to go for placing the fence or guard in position. into used-car dealers' yards to inspect If I remember rightly, this is similar to vehicles and they will be empowered to issue provisions that have been inserted in other orders for repairs on the dealers? Acts in the past year or two. I can see no argument against it. Mr. Herbert: That is right. Generally speaking, the Opposition considers Mr. TUCKER: I am wondering whether that most of the amendments put forward this will be carried out all over Queensland. are quite good, but we reserve our right Will such inspections be made only now and to consider them and make further comments again? Will there be sufficient inspectors to at the second-reading stage. enable regular inspections to be made of used-car dealers' yards throughout the State? Mr. BENNETT (South Brisbane) (12.37 p.m.): I share the opinion of my Deputy Mr. Herbert: We have been outside Leader. It is very obvious that the amend­ Brisbane. Of course, the inspectors have ments suggested by the Minister are desirable. other duties. I do not speak for my party when I say Mr. TUCKER: I realise that. There would that if I were in charge of any industrial ~eed to be a large number of inspectors to organisation, I would insist on every male mspect all used-car yards in the State. Not employee having his hair cut properly. I long ago I read articles in some of the leading would not mess around asking them to newspapers dealing with what were described put it in a net or a pigtail, or asking as "bombs" that were being sold for £60 or them to have it lacquered, tied down, or put in a bonnet. I would kick them out £80 to young people. Many of those vehicles if they did not have their hair cut properly. could be death-traps. If orders for repairs That would be my attitude and my personal costmg some hundreds of dollars were issued approach to the problem. Alternatively, on the dealers it would not be worth their I suppose we could insist on their wearing holding these "bombs" in their yards. In this dresses if they want to appear in that way we might be able to keep them off the fashion. roads. The Minister is obviously proposing to The Minister pointed out that with the amend the section dealing with female introduction of the Decentralisation of workers which says- Magistrates Courts Act of 1965 the require­ . . unless her hair is cut short or ment under this Act would be for all pro­ securely fixed and confined close to her ceedings for the recovery of fees to be taken head by a net or otherwise, and no in the Magistrates Court district in which worker wearing any apron or loose the debtor resided. The proposed amend­ garment shall work, or be allowed to ment will apparently allow for action to be work, in any position where the worker taken in any division of the Brisbane district is likely to come into direct contact with or in any other district. We should like any moving machinery." a further look at that proposal. The Minister said it would assist the administra­ It is rather embarrassing that, in this day tion. He pointed out that some debts are and ·age, young men are not retaining their for only $1.50 and that the person concerned differentiation in this respect and are coming might live in Mt. Isa. The Department of into the same category as women. Justice apparently has agreed that action can Mr. Ramsden: There is no suggestion, be taken in any division of the Brisbane of course, that barristers' wigs will be district or in any other district. I suppose affected. the person concerned would be notified of the action to be taken. We will have a Mr. BENNETT: I could say something close look at that provision and determine in reply to that remark, but we are not our approach to it. dealing with that subject. Inspection of Machinery, &c., Bill [24 NOVEMBER] Local Government Acts, &c., Bill 1903

While this action is apparently becoming Mr. BENNETT: Obviously the hon. mem­ necessary, it is rather humiliating for the ber for Merthyr and his colleagues know masculine community to have to admit that that there is a wide, essential, pathological, there are sections in the male community and sociological difference between men and for whom legislation must be specifically women. introduced so that they may be placed in Hon. J. D. HERBERT (Sherwood­ the same category as women. That is Minister for Labour and Tourism) (12.44 what it boils down to. p.m.), in reply: I am gratified that these Like my Deputy Leader, I say that we amendments are acceptable to the Committee. I do not propose to divert from the original cannot blame the Minister for having to proposal or to have my mind changed by the do this, but I suggest that it is a shocking remarks of the hon. member for South indictment of our modern standards. Brisbane. While the Minister is consideving an amend­ Motion (Mr. Herbert) agreed to. ment to this section, perhaps~I am not Resolution reported. committing either my party or myself to a firm conclusion on this point-in these days when we are endeavouring, because of certain FIRST READING pressures being brought to bear from time Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. to time, to remove any differentiation between Herbert, read a first time. the sexes, it may well be that other principles in the same section of this Act could also be considered, because differentiation is preserved LOOA:L GOVER.INME!NT ACTS and is being applied between male and female AME!NiDMENT BILL in that a male person under 18 years of age INITIATION IN COMMITTEE or a female person under 21 years of age shall not have the care, custody, control, or (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, management or working of any lift, which Greenslopes, in the chair) means in effect that a differentiation is being preserved between young men and young Hon. H. RJiCHTER (Somerset-Minister women in that a young man of 18 years of for Local Government and Conservation) age may drive a lift whereas a young woman (12.45 p.m.): I move- of the same age may not. "That a Bill be introduce·d to amend the The same section also preserves a Local Government Acts, 1936 to 1965, in differentiation between the sexes in that it certain particulars." provides that a male person 18 years of age The Bill amends the Local Government Acts can do certain maintenance work on in certain particulars, the amendments machinery, such as mill-gearing and other covering a variety of subjects, ranging from types of maintenance work on machinery, the calling of tenders and quotations by local but that the same type of maintenance work authoritie·s to the rules governing the pro­ cannot be performed by a female. I have not had time to give serious consideration to this cedure at local authority elections. Certain aspect of differentiation between young men ·of the amendment:s were proposed by the and women, as the Minister has only just Local Government Association of Queensland. introduced the Bill. But it is something that For the information of the Committee, I will obviously calls for consideration in this age now give hon. members an outline of the when this Parliament and particularly this more important amendments included in the Government say that they are doing the,ir Bill. best to remove any differentiation between Under present law, a local authority men and women. Obviously the Opposition desirous of sdling land, or surplus goods or has not had an opportunity to consider in materials, has to invite public tenders for detail the preservation of such differentiation. .their purchase. It is considered that in certain I should like to hear the Minister's thoughts cases greater interest in the sale would be on this matter. It may well be that he created by sale by public auction, and that considers that differentiation should be this would tend to result in a higher sale preserved. On the other hand, like the price being obtained by the local authority. coalition-party Government's opinion on the We accordingly propo-se to amend the law Jury Act, he may consider that differentiation by vestrng a local authority with discretion should not be retained. While we are con­ to sell by public tender or public auction any sidering the amendment suggested by the land, or surplus goods or materials, which it Minister, these other points could also be decides to dispose of. considered, lest it be found necessary in the The next amendment relates to the calling near future to again introduce an amendment to this section. It is rather strange that on of te·nders and quotations by loc•al authorities the one hand we are tryit.g to make boys for the execution of work or the furnishing act like women, and on the other hand we of goods or materials. Under present law, a are trying to see that there is no difference local authority desirous of having any work between men and women. ·executed, or goods or materials furnished, must call quotations wher-e the value of the Mr. Ramsden interjected. work, or the goods or materials, exceeds 1904 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

$500 but does not eJCceed $1,000. Where the In addition, some obsolete tenures are to value exceeds $'1,000, the law requires the be deleted. They are- local authority to call tenders. Development grazing homestead lease; The present limitations were inserted in the Development grazing farm lea;,e; law in 1958, and it is proposed to raise to Prickly-pear development grazing home- $2,000 the limitation on the value of a stead lease; and contract which can be let by a local Prickly-pear development grazing farm authority for the execution of work, or the lease. furni;,hing of goods or materials, without inviting public tenders. The amendment is Their deletion is just a tidying-up process. also designed to save the time and eJCpense Dredging leases, mineral lea~>es and gold­ entaile-d in the calling of tenders for minor mining leases are presently valued for rating works, etc., under $2,000 in value. Quotations purposes on a fee-simple basis, and it is will, of course, still have to be invited where thought that there is no good reason why the value of the work, or the goods or coal-mining leases and special coal-mining materials, exceeds $500 but does not exceed leases should be valued on a different basis. $2,000. The Department of Mines agrees with this It is propo~>ed t:o make the following contention, and the proposed Bin will bring amendment:s to the pwvisions of the Act about uniformity. dealing with the determination of the rateable value of lands-- The next amendment that is proposed relates to the power of local authorities to (a) Coal-mining leases and special coal­ grant bursaries to pupils attending schools or mining lea;,es to be valued on a fee simple colleges. Under the existing law, a local basis instead of on the basis of twenty authority is empowered to grant bursaries to times the annual rental; pupils attending a school or college in its (b) Stud holdings to be valued on a area-I emphasise the words "in its area". fee-simple basis; and The aim is, of course, to assist the secondary (c) Purchase leases issued under the education of pupils. The Local Government Brigalow and Other Lands Development Association has pointed out that secondary­ Acts to be valued on a fee-simple basis. school facilities are not available in a few local authority areas and that, in these cases, Hon. members will remember that last year children have to move from the area to certain leases were included under exactly obtain secondary education. Al'l I said, a the same provisions so that they would be local authority has no power to pay bur­ valued on a fee-simple basis. saries to children when they cease to attend Mr. Houston: Why were they left out a school or a college in its area, and the previously? association asks that the law be amended to enable bursaries to be paid in these circum­ Mr. RICHTER: They were simply missed. stances. The Government believes that there Mr. Homton: Will this cover all possible is merit in the proposal and has decided to leases? amend the law to empower a local authority to pay a bursary to a pupil who formerly Mr. RICHTER: I think this will clean attended a school in its area but who subse­ them up. The valuation of coal-mining leases quently attends a school outside the area for was made on the basis of 20 times the the purpose of obtaining education of a annual rental, and originally that was quite standard not available in the area. I think simple. However, the rental of some of the that is reasonable. leases has been increased 10 times, which Mr. Tucker: It applies only to those places means that the rates payable on them have where there are no secondary schools avail­ also increased 10 times. They are now being able? put on a fee-simple basis. Mr. Houston: What were the others? Mr. RICHTER: It applies to any local local authority area. It could apply to a Mr. RICHTER: Coal-mining leases and college such as the one at Longreach, for special coal-mining leases, stud holdings, and example. If the facilities are not available in purchase leases issued under the Brigalow and the particular area, the bursaries will be Other Lands Development Acts. They will available outside. all be valued on a fee-simple basis, and this Mr. E. G. W. Wood: Does that apply will bring all the leases into line. to tertiary education also? Mr. Houston: How are they valued now? Mr. RICHTER: Yes. Mr. RICHTER: They are special leases. Further, we propose to repeal the existing The Government wishes to have them valued town planning provisions of the Local on a fee-simple basis. Government Acts and introduce new Mr. Houston: What is the present basis of provisions based on the City Df Brisbane valuation? Town Planning Act of 1964. The town planning provisions of the Local Government Mr. RICHTER: Twenty times the annual Acts have remained virtually unchanged since rental. 1936. Local Government Acts [24 NovEMBER] Amendment Bill 1905

As hon. members are aware, a new Act The next proposed amendment included was passed in 1964 for the administration in the Bill empowers a local authority, and implementation of the Brisbane Town when approving an application to subdivide Plan. We consider that a number of land, to require the subdivider in appropriate provisions contained in the 1964 Act could, cases- with advantage, be included in the Local ( a) To make a cash contribution to the Government Acts so that they would be local authority, not exceeding $20 per applicable to town planning schemes under­ allotment, to be applied towards the taken by local authorities outside Brisbane. provision of park and recreational areas The provisions I have in mind include­ to serve the subdivisions; and (a) The power to amend a town planning (b) To make a contribution towards scheme without opening up the whole the reticulation of the subdivisions with scheme to public objection; water supply and/ or sewerage. This will be very popular with the hon. Mr. Houston: $20 does not cover that. member for Ipswich West. Mr. RICHTER: It covers part of it. These (b) The right of a landowner to apply provisions are in the Brisbane City for rezoning of his land and to appeal Council-- against the local authority's decision on his application; Mr. Hanson: That would come within (c) The inclusion of more specific the council ordinances? provisions regarding the right of an owner to claim compensation for injurious Mr. RICHTER: I will elaborate on the affection by reason of the provisions of point after the luncheon recess. a town planning scheme; [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] (d) The power of a local authority to make by-laws for the amplification of Mr. RICHTER: Prior to the luncheon a town planning scheme; recess I was pointing out that another (e) Clarification of the rights of persons proposed amendment included in the Bill to appeal against decisions of a local empowers a local authority, when approving authority under a town planning scheme; an application to subdivide land, to require and the subdivider in appropriate cases- (a) to make a cash contribution to the (f) The hearing and determination of town planning appeals by the Local local authority, not exceeding $20 per Government Court constituted under the allotment, to be applied towards the provi­ City of Brisbane Town Planning Act sion of park and recreational areas to serve of 1964. the subdivisions; and am sure hon. members will agree that (b) to make a contribution towards the it is particularly desirable that the town reticulation of the subdivisions with water planning laws applicable to the City of supply and/ or sewerage. Brisbane and local authority areas outside Mr. Tucker: That is happening in a number Brisbane should, as far as possible, be of local authority areas now. uniform. We have, accordingly, decided to completely revise the existing town Mr. RICHTER: Yes, if they enter into a planning provisions of the Local Government contract with the subdivider. Acts with a view to bringing them into line, as far as possible, with the provisions of Mrs. Jordan: On a barter basis. the City of Brisbane Town Planning Act Mr. RICHTER: Yes. of 1964. Town planning is becoming an increasingly important function of local Mr. Tucker: This is virtually making it government, and we feel that the introduction legal? of the proposed new town planning provisions into the Local Government Acts will Mr. RICHTER: This is writing into the Act facilitate the exercise of this important that the local authority will have the power, function by local authorities. following an application to subdivide land, to ask the subdivider to make a contribution Consequent upon the introduction of the of $20 per allotment. This money will be new town planning code, it has been pooled to provide suitable parks in the area. necessary to make certain minor amendments of section 33A of the Acts, which deal The powers that we propose to vest in local with the declaration of residential districts. authorities generally are already vested in These amendments clarify that an Order the Brisbane City Council. We feel that local in Council cannot be made declaring a local authorities outside Brisbane should be clothed authority area, or part of an area, a residential with similar powers, and have decided to district if the area, or part, is already subject amend the law accordingly. The intention is to an approved town planning scheme. The that a local authority deciding to exercise tlus amendments also declare that upon the power will introduce a by-law setting out the approval of a town planning scheme for circumstances under which it may require an area, or part of an area, embraced within these contributions to be made. Such by-laws, a residential district, the provisions of the of course, will have to be approved by the Order in Council declaring such district shall Governor in Council before they have force thereafter have no force and effect. and effect. 1906 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

The existing law specifies certain matters 1'he next amendment de-clares that the which a local authority must consider when provisions of section 34 (19) (iv) of the Local dealing with an application to subdivide land Government Acts a;pply and shall be deemed in a residential locality or a locality which, lto have always applied to the City of in its opinion, will become a residential Brisbane. This amendment springs from a locality. Examples of these matters are: the judgment recently delivered in the Supreme transfer to the local authority of drainage Court wherein it was decided that an agree­ reserves for the drainage of the subject lands; ment to sell a part of a parcel of land whether the land is so low-lying as to be constitutes a subdivision of that land and incapable of being properly drained; and that, in the absence of some provision to the provision of public garden and recreation the contrary, such an agreement is unlawful space to serve the area to be subdivided. We unless the relevant subdivision has been feel that these matters, together with the approved by the local authority. reticulation of the subdivisions with water and sewerage, should also be taken into considera­ A provision to the contrary is contained tion by the local authority where the land in section 34 (19) (iv) of Vhe Local Govern­ the subject of the subdivisional application ment Acts, which provides that nothing in is being used or will be used for commercial section 34 shall be deemed to render any or industrial pmposes. The Bill makes agreement to sell, Jet or otherwise dispose provision to this effect. of any land illegal or void by reason merely that it is entered into before an applkation We have also decided to discontinue the in respect of the subdivision has been present practice whereby subdivision of land approved by the local authority, but the appeals outside the City of Brisbane are lodged with the Minister and are heard and agreement shall be deemed to be made determined by the Minister or some person subject to such approval being obtained. appointed by him for that purpose. In lieu of That has always been the practice. According these arrangements, we propose that sub­ to the judgment abovementioned, this division of land appeals outside the City of provision has no application in the City of Brisbane shall be heard and determined by Brisbane and it follows that an agreement the Local Government Court constituted to sell part of a parcel of land in that city under the City of Brisbane Town Planning prior to subdivisional approval being granted Act of 1964. by the Brisbane City Council is prohibited by the council's ordinances, which provide that Mr. Houston: Will there be any new a person shall not subdivide land otherwise features in the local authority? than in accordance with an approval granted Mr. RICHTER: They line up pretty welL by the council's delegate. Wherever we can use the provisions of the It has always been considered that the City of Brisbane Town Planning Act, we will section mentioned had application in the do so. In terms of that Act, the court City of Brisbane, and the amendment declares presently hears and determines all subdivision to that effect. The amendment in no way of land and town planning appeals in the City affects the powers of the Brisbane City of Brisbane. The same court will be hearing Council to deal with applications for approval appeals throughout the State; consequently, to subdivide land. we hope that we will get a degree of We also propose to amend the realign­ uniformity. ment provisions of the Acts. In terms of Mr. Tucker: Will the one court be capable these provisions, a local authority desirous of hearing all appeals? of widening a road may, instead of immedi­ ately acquiring or r,esuming the land required, Mr. RICHTER: I understand that it will. cause a notice of realignment to be served The court is quite satisfied that it can hear upon the owners of land affected by the the appeals. I have checked on that point. proposed widening. This notice sets out the The present practice is for the Minister realignment so far as it affe-cts the owner's to appoint the local sNpendiary magistrate to land and a copy of the notice is also served hear and determine subdivision of land upon the Registrar of Titles. After the appeals outside Vhe City of Brisbane. service of the notice, the owner is precluded Mrs. Jordan: Often the stipendiary from constructing a building or altering any magistrate does not understand the situation, existing buildings between the o}d and new yet he makes a decision on the matter. alignments. The Jaw, however, provides that the local authority may permit the carrying Mr. RICHTER: That is so. out of minor repairs to allow of the reason­ Whilst this practice has operated satis­ able preservation of an existing building. factorily, we feel that it would be preferable The land between t'he old alignment and the for these appeals to be heard and determined new is not taken by the local authority to by the Local Government Court. If this were form part of the road untH it is cleared of done, decisions of the court would be avail­ buildings and the local authority has able to all interested part,ies per medium of compensated the owner. Compensation is law reports, and it is considered that this payable when the land is cleared of buildings, would lead to a more unifurm approach to and is limited to the value of the land taken. town planning and subdivision of land We understand that some local authorities matters. I am convinced that it will result in have served notices of real[gnment on lands quite a degree of uniformity. that are clear of buildings and have refrained Local Government Acts (24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1907 from paying compensation to the owners on should not be impeded in these circum­ the ground that, under the law, compensation stances, and accordingly propose to amend is not payable until all other lands affected the law to empower a local authority to by the realignment have been cleared of remove and sell by public tender or public buildings. We feel that this attitude is auction any chattels found in these circum­ inequitable, f

The next amendment included in the Bill as the debate proceeds, there may be some relates to the granting of building leases by differences of opinion as to the meaning of local authorities for the erection of off­ some of the provisions. I suggest that, if street parking stations. Section 49F (3) of that does occur, it will not be because the Local Government Act provides that a members of the Opposition wish to distort local authority may lease land owned or what the Minister has said but because of held in trust by it to any person on a building their inability to understand all the state­ lease for a parking station for a term not exceeding 30 years. Section 32 (4) of the ments he made during his speech. Act deals with the granting by local authori­ Some of the proposed amendments, par­ ties of building leases generally, and this section was amended in 1965 by extending ticularly those recommended by the Local from 30 to 75 years the period for which Government Association, seem to be in keep­ a local authority may grant building leases ing with the policy of the Australian Labour generally. At the time, a corresponding Party. I shall leave those matters to the amendment was not made to the provisions of hon. member for Ipswich West, who is inter­ section 49F (3), which relate specifically to ested in them and who, I understand, played the . granting of building leases for parking some part in the conference of the Local statiOns. In order to rectify the position, we Government Association. propose to amend section 49F {3) by extend­ Ing from 30 to 75 years the period for which The selling of land and surplus goods by a local authority may grant a building lease public auction could work very well, pro­ for parking station purposes. In terms of vided there are safeguards to ensure that the section 32 (4) of the Act, the granting by conditions of sale are not loaded in favour !ocal a~thorities of building leases generally of a person who buys in large quantities. Is subJect to the prior approval of the Unfortunately, one often finds that a small Governor in Council. We consider that the buyer is precluded from buying when large granting by local authorities of building quantities of material are offered for sale. leas_es for the erection of off-street parking The selling agent justifies this action by say­ statiOns s~<;mld be subject to like approval, ing that the value of the article being sold and proviSion to that effect is contained in does not warrant its sale in small quantities. the Bill. But if public bodies are disposing of goods, The final amendment relates to the rules an attempt must be made to ensure that governing the conduct of local-authority no-one can cast reflections on the integrity elections. These rules follow, as far as of the council or anyone else. possible, the provisions of the State Elections Act. As hon. members are aware, a number It is also proposed that the value of work of amendments to those Acts were made executed, or goods or materials furnished, during the last session of Parliament. We for which public tenders need not be invited propose that, where applicable, consequential by a local authority is to be increased from amendments be made to the local govern­ $1,000 to $2,000. This is another excellent ment electoral rules. The principal amend­ example of the way in which costs have ments are in relation to- increased between 1956 and 1966 and of the inflationary trend in that period. Although (a) Postal voting procedure; hon. members on this side of the Chamber (b) Clarification of the law governing may attempt to prevent something happen­ the publication of electoral propaganda ing, once it has happened they accept it. prior to elections; and The proposed alteration seems necessary and, (c) The removal of the disqualification accordingly, is to be commended. from voting of Torres Strait Islanders and half-castes under the control and super­ Apparently changed circumstances have vision of the Director of Aboriginal and shown that the method of calculating value Island Affairs. on the basis of 20 times the annual rental is I commend the Bill to the Committee. no longer practical. In fact, I take it that it reacts more against the holder of the land Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the than against the council. The Minister did Opposition) (2.35 p.m.): On almost every not give the Committee any figures, and I occasion when a Bill has been introduced suggest to him that he might tell hon. during this session of Parliament, the members if the proposed provision is purely Minister has declared in his introductory for the benefit of the holder of the land. speech that it is a simple Bill. The pro­ visions of the proposed Bill now under dis­ Mr. Richter: The position is that the cussion could not be called simple, because, original figure has been increased 10 times. although they all relate to local authorities, If the rating is made on the increased value, they cover a very wide range of subjects. the rates are astronomically high. It is impossible for the Opposition to give Mr. HOUSTON: Is the local authority any undertaking on a measure such as this. being given a concession, or is the lease­ Naturally, hon. members on this side of the holder being given a concession? Chamber will express their views according to their understanding of the Minister's Mr. Richter: The leaseholder is paying introductory remarks, and it is possible that, too much now. Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1909

Mr. HOUSTON: If that is so, hon. "Government Gazette" and see exactly what members on this side will probably support they are. I will read them out, because they the proposal. are particularly important. It says- The granting of bursaries should be encour­ "Arnold Lucas Bennett, Esquire, one aged, particularly in cases in which local of Her Majesty's Counsel learned in the authorities wish to employ juniors on the Law to be a Commission to make full and basis ?f cadetships. I can see many advan­ careful inquiry into- tages m local authorities assisting young men 1. The dealing by the Brisbane City and women to further their studies. As we Council, the Council Registration Board, know, in some local-authority areas, because established under Chapter 59 of the of the SIZe of the main centre or in some Ordinances or any Ordinance amending cases the size of towns other than the main or substituted therefor of the Brisbane centre~ it is. necessary to bind young people City Council, or any other delegate of the early m therr educational careers in order to Brisbane City Council, the Greater Bris­ get them to remain in the areas. This is bane Town Planning Committee consti­ necessary to ensure that they will come back tuted under The City of Brisbane (Town to the area and contribute to its welfare and Plan) Act of 1959,' the Planning development. We know from experience Advisory Committee established under that there are times when young folk who Part II of Chapter 8 of The City of sh'?w marked promise from the academic Brisbane Ordinances and officers of the pomt of v1ew leave an area without any ties said Council, with applications for- apart perhaps from a family tie, and go t~ (a) Approvals to subdivide land; a larger centre, where they usually stay and are thereby lost to their own district. (b) Approvals to use land or build­ ings for a particular purpose; By means .of bursaries it is possible for (c) Permits to erect buildings or local authont1es to ensure that the ability of other structures; and these young people will be used in the areas conce:ned. . T'? encourage young people to (d) Other like approvals and stay m the1r nome towns is of advantage permits, to them, apart altogether from any advan­ and the practices and procedures which tage that may be gained by the local have been followed in respect of such authonty. Cadets and others, even if they applications from time to time by the are not bound, could be given bursaries to said Council, the said Board or other pursue course~ i?- techn?logy at the university said delegate of the said Council or the or, as the M1mster sa1d, at the agricultural said Committees or officers of the college ';it Lo~greach. I cannot see anything Council." wrong m th1s. I take it that the local authority's by-laws will look after the method Mr. Richter: How does this affect the ?f gr':'nting the bursaries so that everything legislation? m th1s respect will be in order from the Mr. HOUSTON: I am trying to point that public point of view. out. I have not seen any denial of what has . The next part of the Act to be amended appeared in Press reports. Certain parties 1s of parti~ular interest to most members. tried to involve the Minister, and he took It deals w1th the local authority's power appropriate action in the circumstances. Of :elat1ve . to rezoning, paying compensation, course, that was up to him. The Com­ mtroducmg by-laws, and the right of appeal missioner indicated that he was also !O . the Local Government Court. In effect, inquiring into the Acts themselves. He made It I.s sm~ply the adoption of many of the pro­ some comments to the effect that the Com­ VIsiOns m the present City of Brisbane Town mission was also set up to investigate hard­ ~lan~ing Act. Whilst the Minister was speak­ ships caused by decisions of the council, or mg It seeme.d to me ~o. be rather strange by practices of the council. The Com­ that. at th1s time the Mm1ster should be sug­ missioner indicated that it was within the gestmg that the City of Brisbane Town terms of reference to inquire into the law, Planning Ac~ has proved to be very success­ and whether the law, as provided in the City ~ul. . I t<;JOk 1t from the Minister's reply to my of Brisbane Town Planning Act, was creating mtenectwn and from his attitude that he hardships. He also indicated that he was agrees t~at this is so and I have no fight prepared to look into the question of zoning­ at all w1th the Government's extending such in other words, in the whole Town Plan. successful laws to other places. But I cannot Whether the Government intended that, I understand why the Minister should be intro­ do not know. Newspaper reports from time ducing these provisions now when his own to time indicate that that is actually what the G~vernment. has set up an inquiry into the Commissioner is doing. That is why I raised Bnsbane C1ty Council and its handling of this point. This Parliament accepted the City some of these matters. of Brisbane Town Planning Bill. Although certain hon. members may not have been Mr. Richter: That is not investigation of completely happy with some of its clauses, the Town Planning Act. I think all of us said we were prepared to see how it worked out. From the Minister's Mr. HOUSTON: Let us have a look at introduction of this Bill, I take it that in the the Commission's terms of reference in the main it has worked out quite satisfactorily. 1910 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

For the life of me I cannot see why the Mr. HOUSTON: The committee that was Government appointed this Commission to established to advise the City Coundl on the make this investigation. The mere fact of its Town Plan. being set up creates in the public mind a feeling that something is wrong, because a Mr. Richter: Tha;t ±s entirely up to the commission is never set up just to give council. We merely said that it could appoint someone a nice easy job. That was the a committee. public's first reaction. I trust that the setting­ Mr. HOUSTON: 11he Government gave it up of this Commission was not done on any the power to appoint a committee; the political basis, because it was a Labour Government cre·ated the machinery for its Council's activities that are being inquired appointment. into and a Brisbane City Council election is not very far off. Mr. Ritcher: We gave the council the right to appoint a committee. Mr. Richter: No. Mr. HOUSTON: The Mrnister or the Mr. HOUSTON: I hope and trust not. Government named no person who it was The Minister would agree that certain mem­ thought should serve on the committee? bers of the Government parties~I am not suggesting they are particularly friendly Mr. Richter: No. We were asked if we towards the Minister-will grasp any oppor­ had any objection to certain officers. tunity to bring politics into local authority affairs. We regret this and do not want it. Mr. HOUSTON: And tthe Government We should challenge their actions whenever had no objection. I have no argument against they try to do this sort of thing. the Government's not objecting to particular officers. No-one on this side objected at Mr. L~nv: You will find that it is a good the time, and we are not objecting now. Bill. J.t s·eems to me to be completely ridiculous Mr. HOUSTON: I am not denying that. to investigate the people who have been approved. I suggest to the Minister in all Certain sections of the City of Brisbane sincerity to stop playing with local-authority Town Planning Act are now to be applied administration. W·e have this measure before in this Bill. I take it that the hon. member us now, and if any hdn. members have any­ agrees with that. What will happen if when thing to say about tthe administration of this the Commission brings down its findings, it legislation by t

The proposed method will allow local forced to forgo its rights. If subdividers authorities to alter the areas designed prin­ paid $20 instead of providing the land and cipally as rural areas so that they can be the money could be spent on one large area, subdivided or put to industrial use as councils could provide useful park areas. In required. It is not necessary to deal with the fairness to particular parts of the district, I whole shire in making those alterations. At think that the local authority should be the same time, I agree most heartily that the required to pay the money it receives in this rights of the individual must be protected. way into some form of trust fund to ensure From what the Minister said, I assume that that it is used for the purpose for which local authorities will have to advertise pro­ it is taken; it should not merely be paid into posed alterations so that all will be able to consolidated revenue. exercise their rights. Having listened to the Minister's remarks The Minister also dealt with the Local in relation to compensation for various Government Court. The present system of changes of alignment, I support the proposed local government appeals has been most change. In my opinion, things such as that inadequate, and I am very happy that it will are axiomatic. now be possible to go to a central body that In regard to selling land by tender or by will be experienced in dealing with these public auction, the time has long since gone appeals and from which uniform decisions when $500 was a sufficient maximum. Prices can be expected. have increased, and I believe that the limit There has been over the years considerable of $2,000 on the value of work or goods is a comment on subdivisions, and some adverse very excellent idea. Of course, the council criticism of demands made by local can buy in two lots instead of one-that has authorities on subdividers. I wholeheartedly been done for years-but some things cannot agree with those who think that the sub­ be bought in small lots, and the proposed divider should provide all the amenities. increase will be of considerable assistance. New residents in an area demand certain I know a great deal about the calcu­ amenities. They want water supply, bitumen lation of value on the basis of 20 times roads, kerbing and channelling, adequate the rental. That was the standard for lease­ drainage, and, if possible, sewerage. I do hold land in Queensland 20 years ago, and I not agree that existing ratepayers should be assume that the Minister is correct in what asked to provide these amenities in new he said about coal mining. I have seen it areas. Allotments cost about $400 more set out in one authority that the valuation when they are provided, and if the subdivider of these coal freeholds can be very difficult does not provide them, rates have to be if they are at strata level, and the question increased over the whole local-authority of getting comparable values will present a area to enable the council to do so. I do great deal of difficulty. not think it is reasonable to say that the general public should provide amenities such The matter of scholarships is one I would as these. Although I realise that most of be interested in but it is more for western the houses on allotments in new subdivisions shires. All shires along the coast usually probably are built by young couples, the have high schools within their areas. Redland Shire Council is imposing conditions I commend the Minister for the terms of on the subdividers. this Bill. It has been required by local In 1890, surveys were carried out that have authorities for a long time and, on behalf of now been opened up. It is not possible to the Local Government Association I thank impose conditions when subdivisions are the Minister for the effort he has made in made in accordance with those surveys, and bringing these matters before the Committee. in the last five or six years the council has been forced, by pressure of public opinion, Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (3.11 p.m.): I to provide certain roads and other amenities think we will all agree that this is an excellent in the areas concerned. They are not up measure. It will do quite a deal to to the required standard, and it will be quite strengthen local authorities in the very vital a long time before those areas reach the aspects of town planning to which the hon. standard of other areas of the shire. member for Logan has referred. The pro­ vision for appeal is certainly overdue and I am wholeheartedly in agreement with the will be extremely well received. Minister's proposal to deal with drainage I think all members will accept that it is easements and provide by-laws under which particularly desirable that local authorities action may be Llken. should become stronger and more effective, The question of $20 an acre was also and this proposed amendment undoubtedly raised through the South-eastern District will contribute much in that regard. Any­ Branch of the Local Government Association, thing that tends to consolidate democracy and town planning is really involved. Five should have unhesitating support, and with­ per cent. of all subdivisional land goes to out doubt municipal government is one of local authorities for park purposes. If the the three pillars of democratic government. subdivisional areas are small, the council In our country they are government in the might get a quarter of an acre in one place Federal sphere, government in the State and half an acre somewhere else. That is sphere and municipal government, which has quite useless, and very often a council is to play its proper role. I want to use the Local Government Acts [24 NovEMBER] Amendment Bill 1913

introductory stage of this measure to express nature at all. In my view this opens the door my doubts whether municipal government is wide to the entry of party politics into local indeed playing a role to the full extent that government. it could at the present time. As one of the I could not agree more with the Leader of three pillars-although perhaps a shaky the Opposition when he deplores the entry one-is it playing its role as it should be, of politics into local government, but I was has it the authority it should have, has it a somewhat amazed at hrs remarks because it sufficient area of vital responsibility? In our is the Australian Labour Party which State, for a long time the area and role of relentlessly insists on bringing party politics local authority has tended to become rather into every major local authority in the State. rigid and defined; it has become narrower No other party machine does this. and narrower as the years have gone by, and I wonder if it is not time to try to bring it Opposition Members interjected. out of that rather restricted area. Mr. PORTER: As far as I am concerned, A survey was made in New South Wales rhe Communist Party is not a political party not very long ago relative to municipal but an illegal society masquerading as such. expenditure-the average expenditure of the A simple adult franchise makes it easier average municipality. Whilst that is not for party politics to come into this field. I Queensland, I have no doubt that if it were should like to see a change in this pattern, done here it would show much the same and I use the introductory stage of this Bill result. This survey showed that the average to suagest to the Minister and his officers municipality spent about 50 to 80 per cent. that p~rhaps on a future occasion they s~ould of its money on roadworks, 6 to 12 per cent. look at this to make sure t!hat people WJ.th a on sanitary and garbage services, 6 to 8 per real interest and concern in an area get the cent. on administrative costs, about 10 per chance to vote for local government-! cent. on parks and gardens, about 2 per emphasise !'he words "local government"-!'nd cent. each on libraries, health services, town that it be not just left to anybody who m1ght planning, fire prevention, and so on. That gives be an itinerant passing through, somebody on a kind of rough yardstick of municipal activi­ a working holiday, with no interest what~ver ties. There could be pronounced variation in the area but who, nevertheless, provided from that norm, but quite obviously local he is there long enough, would be entitled authorities have a sort of obsessive preoccu­ to vote. That is what happens constantly. pation with road building. Peo'ple with not an atom ?~ _interest or a I cannot help but wonder if we could not skerrick of property responsibility get on the do something to relieve local authorities of roll and are entitled to vote. Therefore, I this obligation. Obviously I think they will recommend a substantial change in the basis always have some responsibility for road­ of franchise. works, but surely not to the extent of four­ Mr. Houston: You are just a publicity fifths of their moneys and energies. I seeker. should hope that they would be more con­ cerned with long-term planning, and the fact Mr. PORTER: If the hon. member listens that town planning is beginning to play a to me he might hear something useful to him. larger and larger role suggests that this would If we amalgamated the simple adult be so. franchise with the basis of property entitle­ ment I believe this wou~d be a very good Mr. Carey: Do you support that? thin<> for local government as a whole. This"' has been done for donkeys' years in Mr. PORTER: Indeed I do. I think local other States, where it has worked quite authority should be helped to set its sights. successfully so it would be nonsense to beyond the provision of roads. The necessity surrrrest th~t such a type of franchise is for a local authority to have the power to diffi";;ult u'nfair or biased either against or provide the right environment for people is, for any class. In Victoria a person must I think, well expressed in the example of be the owner of property to a certain value Inala. Notwithstanding how right or how to be entitled to be e11rol1ed for local wrong have been many things that have been authority elections. He must own property written about this suburb, the fact is that it liable to be rated not less than $10 .to become is an area that exemplifies all that sensible entitled to be a voter. An occupier of some town-planning would want to avoid. duration is entitled .to be a voter. In uhe I should like to see local authorit\~s helped city of Melbourne a person is entitled to up to get their horizons lifted above roa:ds, to three votes, his entitlement being deter­ bridges, sanitary pans, garbage tips, and so mined on the value of his property. In New on. One essential way to place local South Wales a person votes at local authority authority in its proper arena is to review elections as an occupier, an owner, or a its basis of franchise. In Queensland we ratepaying lessee of r~tea~le land. Th~ have a compulsory, simple, adult franchise for qualification as an occup1er IS three months munici?al elections. Anybody can vote if occupa'ncy where the yearly rateable value he is on the roll, irrespective of whether he is not less than $10. has any roots in an area, any responsibilities Mr. Houston: How do you get on the roll of proferty owner~hip, or anything of that if you are not? 63 1914 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

Mr. PORTER: You do not get on the alleviate the position in some cases it would roll as a property-owner if you are not overcome the general problem, which not one. If you live there you get on is a chronic shortage of finance in local the roll in fhe normal way. rf you have authorities. property you also get on tlhe roll. Quite plainly, there are many people in those I think we must face up to the question, States who vote as residents i'n one area and at some time in the very near future, of as owners of property in another. how to assist local authorities to get more money. What sort of a net do we fashion, and Mr. Aikens: YQu are trying to get back where do we cast it? Someone has suggested the days of the land barons. a special tax on teenagers. I am opposed to such a suggestion, because on principle Mr. PORTER: The land barons? This has nothing to do with them. I am opposed to special taxes. I think they have a very inadequate foundation. What I believe this would be far better for local else can we suggest? My own view is that authorities; it would give them an electoral we should recommend a provision that makes basis that is firmly attached to people who it possible for local authorities to impose have real concern for the area in which the a second sales tax, one in addition to the local authority operates. In my own case-­ Commonwealth sales tax. This will be at a and if I am a land baron, I am a very barren prescribed rate, and in prescribed areas for baron-I have owned a property on the Gold which permission has been sought and Coast for almost 40 years but, because I do obtained, to cover a certain line of goods not reside there, I have never been able to and services. That is done quite consistently have one atom of say in what happens down in overseas countries. A docket for the sale there in terms of local government. of such goods and services would show the net cost, and also the municipal sales tax Mr. Aikens interjected. and the total amount to be paid. That would Mr. PORTER: The number of voters on require only a small adjustment to existing the station properties would be minute in cash registers and other similar machines. terms of the total votes in an area. As I say, this has been done for years and years in the United States and Canada, with A franchise that recognises the contribu­ singular success. Apparently it is one way tions of people who own property and who in which people do not so much mind pay­ pay substantial rates, would, I believe, lead ing for the very heavy burden of municipal to better local authority elections, and more services. It also casts the net over people solidly based local government would do who come into the area to use those services, much to lift the horizons above their present and would be of extreme value in tourist level. areas. I realise that we need more than a dif­ Mr. Aikens: In countries where that applies ferent basis of franchise. It is quite obvious the local authorities do much of the work that we also need some assistance in terms that State Governments do in this country. of finance. Franchise is one of the great problems of local authorities, and finance Mr. PORTER: Not entirely. The local is the other great problem. I think they all feel the financial pinch, some more than authority in Canada has a similar role to others. our local authorities, but State Governments play a much larger role in those countries Local authorities with special develop­ than here. mental problems must certainly feel the financial obligation cast on them; they must I commend the Bill, and the Minister for feel it much more heavily than others. By bringing it down. I hope that at some time this, I mean that it is unfair to expect small in the future the Minister and the Government parcels of ratepayers to carry all the burden will look at the suggestions I have made, of expenditure required to carry out massive namely, to change the local government development programmes in areas where franchise to enable property-owners, as well development means a great deal of revenue as those people who live in an area, to for the State. The Gold Coast is a classic vote; to improve the financial position of example of this. In my view, it is manifestly local authorities by having them declared unfair that those with property interests developmental areas entitled to special should be expected to carry the major burden assistance, and to permit a special municipal of the tourist development, which will vastly sales tax to be charged in certain prescribed benefit the whole of the State. If the North areas. Coast is not in this category at the moment it will be very shortly, and there are many Mrs. JORDAN (Ipswich West) (3.27 p.m.): other developmental areas. As a member of a local authority I welcome the legislation and commend the Minister for I believe that a special fund should be its introduction. The principles contained established by the Government within its in the Bill have, for some years, been the developmental accounts for the prime purpose subject of general discussion at local authority of assisting local authorities who have respon­ conferences and town and city conferences sibilities in what could be called prescribed as well as conferences of the south-eastern developmental areas. Whilst this would zone of the Local Government Association. Local Government Acts [24 NoVEMBER} Amendment Bill 1915

I commend the Minister for attending local subject to the scrutiny of the Local Govern­ government conferences, including the recent ment Association. I do not feel that any one in Toowoomba. Unlike other Local harm can be done by this clause; indeed, I Government Ministers who have delivered feel that it has a lot to commend it. a speech in the opening ceremony and then retired, he stayed for most of the conference I now come to what I think is the main and listened to the debates. As a result, portion of the Bill, and that is its relation he knows what local authorities represented to town planning and subdivision. In the at that conference had in mind. In no past, provincial local authorities have come way did he wield the big stick over delegates. up against a great deal of difficulty in town He stayed there, I think, because he has planning. There has been too much rigidity been a local government man for a number in it. If, as a result of development and of years and was interested in what delegates progress in a city, the local authority wants had to say, and in their problems. I think to alter some part of its town planning, it that by staying at the conference he got has been unable to do so. The only way a greater grasp of their requirements, and to get round the difficulty has been to intro­ as a result we now have the amendments duce an entire new town plan. All who have proposed by this Bill. had experience in the local government field In the first section of his speech the Minister will know that the preparation of a town dealt with the rights of the council to sell plan, even in part, is a very lengthy business. materials either by public tender or public Even after its preparation, it is subject to auction. A difficulty facing councils for public display, and the local authority has some time has been their inability to get then to wait for objections. people interested in tendering, whereas people Whilst that whole procedure is in progress, would attend and bid at an auction. I the town plan can become outdated. That suggest that the lots be kept small enough has happened in some cases. In the past, to allow individuals to purchase them; councils have been hamstrung by the rigidity otherwise they have to buy a large lot, of the regulations relative to town planning. that is, if they can afford to do so. I know that the Ipswich City Council has The second point covered the minimum been in a most embarrassing position. In price and ceiling price. There is to be some areas that have gone ahead very an increase in the minimum of $500 and quickly, we have not been able to provide the maximum of $1,000 to $1,000 and $2,000 for business or industry because of their respectively. That merely brings the provision zoning as residential areas under the town up to date and into line with cost-of-living plan. Indeed, the council felt that the need increases and price rises that have occurred was so urgent that by resolution it tried to since this matter was last the subject of do something about it by putting 43 amend­ legislation. ments to the Local Government Depart­ ment. Under the existing Act, the Depart­ The third phase, the change to the fee ment of Local Government could not say simple procedure from the old method of "Yea" or "Nea", and the council could not 20 times the rental, is plain logic and rezone the areas. As a result, the develop­ common sense, and I do not think there is ment of those areas in Ipswich was held up. anything in it with which we could disagree. I know that other local authorities are in Concerning bursaries, we in the city are a similar position. Discussions in the south­ not affected to a very great extent eastern zone, which covers south-eastern except where we might like to see Queensland, indicated that local authorities bursaries granted to cadet engineers have been hamstrung by the rigidity in the or similar students to help them com­ law relating to town planning. I believe that plete their studies and enter the local they will join with the Ipswich City Council government field. The widest effect of this in welcoming the flexibility provided by the provision will be felt in the western shires proposed legislation. where education facilities are not as close as they are in the larger cities. Those who Some years ago ratepayers generally lifted travel to the West realise how difficult it is their hands in horror when it was suggested at times for people in those areas where that a subdivider should have to pay for the there are no, or very few, secondary schools, construction of roads within a subdivision. and no tertiary education facilities. With Those who had anything to do with local the aid of bursaries, local authorities can government in those days know how difficult help to send away, and further the education it was for councils to provide roads, and of, bright students whose parents could not they know also that subdividers reaped the afford to do so. However, a line must be full benefit from the sale of the land. Local drawn somewhere in deciding how much authorities and people generally now accept such students can be helped and how far the principle that in subdivisions, particu­ they can be sent. For political reasons, or larly the bigger ones, subdividers should be to receive some kudos, someone may recom­ required to pay for roads. mend the granting of bursaries, or someone People are demanding more and more may want to send a persons overseas, which facilities and local authorities have not the would be beyond the line of reason. I finance to provide them at the rate desired. think that this can be overcome by the They are behind the eight ball all the time. by-laws of the various councils which are I have not anything against the franchise in 1916 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill local authority areas, but I do not think that foresee when we will be able to do so. If people who have properties in several local they are genuine subdividers and if the authority areas should have several votes. If development of the land is in keeping with all those who are interested in local govern­ the way the city is developing-some of them ment study the problem, I think it should be try to develop ahead of time-and there is possible to devise some means of raising a possibility of their selling the land, we find additional finance to provide the facilities that they then come forward with an offer that people now demand. of so much towards the cost of reticulation The question of requiring a contribution of the water. The bigger ones in particular for the reticulation of water belongs to this will do so. This provision merely gives legal day and age. In my electorate, a number of sanction to something that is now happening subdivisions are being made on a large in the local government sphere. scale. One contains 843 allotments; another contains over 600 allotments. Both of them When the City of Brisbane Town Planning are in areas that are some distance from the Act was introduced and when the Brisbane water main, and to reticulate water to even City Council brought forward regulations one of them would cost more than the and various other matters that had to be amount of money that has been provided in put before the Local Government Depart­ the Ipswich City Council's budget for water ment, I know that many local authorities reticulation for the whole city. If water requested copies of the requirements and was connected to that subdivision, the regulations. Indeed, by devious means we remainder of the city would not get anything. tried to get them before they were made law because we knew they contained so many In its negotiations with one company, the things that people who worked in local council attempted to have the work carried authorities realised were sensible and in out by stage development. But subdividers keeping with what was required by rate­ do not like stage development, particularly if payers in these modern times. they are asked to develop the first stage nearest to existing facilities. As most hon. Most of the things that some of us have members know from experience, sub­ been trying to do under a barter system are dividers like to develop first the area farthest covered by the regulations issued under the away from existing facilities. They want City of Brisbane Town Planning Act. A to sell allotments to a few people who as lot of thought, preparation and experience ratepayers can then agitate for the provision went into the framing of those regulations by the city council of facilities such as water and other local authorities, therefore, are in the instance to which I am referring. Thi~ using them as a guide. agitation will possibly cause the council to put the mains through to the farthest section The Minister mentioned the point about of the subdivision and as a result all the councils being able to make their own by­ land between the existing facilities and the laws, subject, of course, to approval by the farthest end of the subdivision will increase Governor in Council. In the past the powers in value by at least 50 per cent. or perhaps of local authorities have been gradually more. The subdivider reaps the benefit stripped from them. This will give them greater flexibility and is a step in the right whilst the ratepayers of the whole of the direction, in that it will give local authori­ local authority area pay the costs by way of rates. ties a greater degree of autonomy. Greater flexibility in town planning and particularly The facility has to be paid for in one way subdivision is a step towards greater local or another, and I think local authorities are authority autonomy. By that I do not mean agreeing more and more that · those people greater power. I believe in the right of the who get the facilities should be the ones to individual. On that point I think it is a pay for them. Perhaps they pay on time very good idea that in future all appeals payment over a period, but in the meantime shall be heard by the Local Government they have the facility they require and the Court. At the present time such appeals cost of it is not a charge on all the rate­ come within the jurisdiction of stipendiary payers in areas already developed, who have magistrates in various areas. I am not say­ already contributed to the cost of their own ing anything against the stipendiary magis­ facilities. If we could require the subdivider trates, but many of them are not steeped to proceed in stage development from the in local authority law and all their decisions nearest point to the existing facilities the are therefore not necessarily wise ones. position would not be so bad, l?ut up tc{ date With the Local Government Court hearing the Government has not dealt with the matter all appeals throughout the State I feel that in this way. I think that the introduction the position will be much more satisfactory of a reticulation contribution by this legis­ for the individual and the local authority. lation is a forward step. In the past some appeals have been delayed for many months. In my area an appeal In fact, local authorities do this under a that was lodged three councils ago has still barter system now. Under local authority not been decided. The operation of the law, we cannot refuse to give them the right Local Government Court throughout the to proceed, but we can put all sorts of strings State will make a tremendous difference in on them, or try to, by telling them that we the time factor and in the attitude and cannot provide these facilities and cannot knowledge applied to appeals. Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1917

This legislation is a step in the right 1980 the City of Brisbane will have a direction because it helps both the local population of 1,000,000. None of us needs authority and the individuals in the area. reminding that each year many thousands It puts the cost for some of these facilities more motor-cars come onto our arterial roads. where it should be-not on the individual We are faced with the simple alternative ratepayer. But for what is proposed many of planning now or watching the city slowly local authorities would be forced to increase strangle to death. When we see the traffic their rates. I know that at the present time snarls at the Normanby, Story Bridge, all local authorities are fighting against that. Woolloongabba, and many other intersections, Costs are rising but they do not want to it is reasonable to say that possibly it is pass them on to their ratepayers. Therefore later than we think. the provisions of this Bill will help local Therefore, the Wilbur Smith Report was authorities as well as individual ratepayers. timely. We have a plan that in broad I welcome the provisions relative to regu­ terms will be followed; implementation of lated parking, particularly the third one the first stage has started. In broad terms, which deals with official traffic signs, and the plan provides for projected river the way the money can be used. In the past crossings, defined freeways and main arterial the local authorities have been on the losing roads, and outlines the way in which traffic side in this matter. The provision to let problems may be alleviated. It may or them use such money from the general fund may not be implemented in its entirety, and is a step in the right direction as also is the we know that some of the plans will not proposal to allow leases for off-street parking even be considered for many years. When the time comes for them to be considered facilities to be extended to 75 years in order there will be a host of reasons why the to encourage private individuals to enter this plans that exist today will be substantially field, knowing that they have some tenure in amended. Some alterations will concern the the land and buildings used to establish the positioning of bridges, the cost of resumptions facilities. here compared with the cost of resumption I reserve any further comments until we there, the ultimate surveying of the projected deal with this matter at a later stage. roads, and a host of other things. All these considerations will necessitate substantial Mr. W. D. HEWITT (Chatsworth) (3.51 amendments to the plan. p.m.): There is no question that local authorities in this day and age are beset At this point of time there is a plan in with problems of great significance. existence. Whether or not it will be imple­ mented in its entirety or in part is a Mr. Aikens interjected. decision to be made at some time in the future. But because of the existence of this Mr. W. D. HEWITT: The hon. member plan many people, at this point of time, are for Townsville South preceded me on one suffering very real hardship and are very occasion, so this time he can be the seriously disadvantaged. I want to discuss soothing party to follow. their problems quite briefly with the Com­ Local authorities these days have immense mittee this afternoon. problems and on this occasion hon. members We have the situation where a householder should approach them objectively and -or indeed a landowner, because this is not dispassionately, in an attitude removed from confined to people who own a modest house­ the dissension that often permeates some of hold block---can decide for any number of our discussions. I expect that the debate reasons to sell, and in the course of time he will maintain the high standard which it lists his home or property with an agent, has so far achieved. and the agent then proceeds along well­ I believe that all hon. members are very defined lines to obtain a buyer. When a conscious of the problems that confront buyer comes on the scene one of the first local authorities. There are many people in things he wants to satisfy himself upon is the this Chamber with specialised knowledge. positioning of the house or the land or the They have had experience at the local property with respect to the projected plans authority level before coming here, and I of the Wilbur Smith Report. In fact, his am sure that the Minister will take advantage solicitor will probably serve upon the vendor of their experience and their attitude to the a requisition asking if the property or home measures he envisages in the Bill. is encumbered in any way, for mortgage details, and if there are any immediate or I am prompted to speak on this measure because of the comments of the Leader of planned resumptions against it. That is a the Opposition about planning, particularly standard question in solicitors' letters of this those concerning the Wilbur Smith Report. day. The hon. gentleman made passing reference Additionally, a buyer or his agent will to what he said were the hardships suffered make a close scrutiny of council records as a result of this plan. I wish to support to determine the l&yout of planned roads or his comments. First, the Wilbur Smith freeways. If the buyer establishes that a Report was necessary in a city of this size, freeway might go through that area at some and it is highly necessary in a city of the time in the future, the chances are very real size that it will be one day. We either that he will shy off and look elsewhere. So, plan, or we watch ourselves slowly strangle while in 20 years' time a freeway may be to death. We should recognise that by nowhere near the paint where it is presently 1918 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill indicated to pass, the fact remains that now a Mr. Richter: They are entitled to compen­ seller is disadvantaged very much indeed as sation if you are talking about the Brisbane a buyer quite rightly does not want to acquire Town Plan. a property that may be resumed some time in the future at a price that at this point of time Mr. W. D. HEWITT: I am talking not he cannot anticipate. He could pay a large about Stage 1, which is being implemented sum of money for a property now and he has now, but about Stages 2 and 3, which may no way in the world of knowing whether the not be implemented for many years and resumption payment in 10, 15 or 20 years' may not be put into effect as they presently time will equal, fall short of, or exceed, the stand. It is the great shadow of uncertainty price he paid. that concerns me. I put it to the Minister with the greatest respect that there is no So the simple fact of the matter is that doubt at all that, because of lines on a map because there is in existence an extensive at the City Hall, some people are very greatly map with nothing more than lines drawn disadvantaged. Their properties are in effect across it, hundreds and hundreds of people frozen. I have evidence of that. in this city today are very seriously dis­ advantaged as a consequence. It is easy Mr. Richter: That is not right. enough to outline the problem. It is not so easy to solve it. As I have already said, Mr. W. D. HEWITT: My evidence is to and as I emphasise, there is a real necessity that effect. for this plan-we must have it-but there Mr. Richter: If they cannot sell at a must also be some recognition of the dis­ reasonable figure now, they can apply for advantage that these people suffer. I should compensation. like the Minister first and foremost to be seized with this situation, to understand it Mr. W. D. HEWITT: Under any stage fully, and to comprehend the fact that people of the plan? in fact have their properties frozen because of the existence of this plan. Mr. Richter: Under the Town Plan. The standard answer given to these people Mr. W. D. HEWITT: That is useful advice. when they approach the department or, I shall be pleased to pass it on to my con­ indeed, I suspect, the Minister himself is that stituents, who will be very happy indeed. "This is no more than a plan. At this point This is a major breakthrough. of time it is not being implemented. It is This is a simple plea that I make. The not even certain that it will be implemented". That is as far as the answer will go. That is Town Plan at this point of time creates meant to satisfy the vendor, but it does not uncertainty and disadvantages for many satisfy the potential buyer. people, and I am pleased to receive the Minister's assurance. Nevertheless, I should Mr. HanJon: In any case, some of the roads like to give him details of a particular case could be 100 yards away depending on the that has been referred to me. survey. Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (4.2 Mr. W. D. HEWITT: That is right. That p.m.): As the Bill amends the Local Govern­ in its turn casts a shadow of doubt not only ment Act, I rise with considerable trepidation on property in the immediate area but also and apprehension because on the front bench property adjacent to it. I do not pretend to is the Minister for Lands, who, I feel sure, come up with the correct answer, but I should will jump to his feet the moment I finish like to know that this point is exercising the speaking and launch a phrenetic and vitriolic Minister's mind. I suggest to him that because attack on me for conducting a vendetta these people suffer from a situation which is against the Townsville City Council. not of their making there could be occasions, when real distress or hardship is established, I should like first to deal with some obser­ that the Government should be able to come vations made by the hon. member for to their rescue. That is a prerogative which Toowong, in which he said that we should would have to be exercised sparingly. turn back the clock and return to a property Mr. Richter: Why should the Government franchise. If that is to apply at local take the risk? authority elections, why is he not honest enough to advocate it for State and Federal Mr. W. D. HEWITT: Surely it is the elections? They are all based on the same Government and the local authority that democratic concept that one man is as good ultimately will have to implement this plan. as another. Mr. Bennett: It's the Government's plan. Of course, he talks about the Labour Party entering candidates in the municipal sphere, Mr. W. D. HEWITT: It is the Govern­

candidates in the local government field is local government on the basis of the amount a two-edged sword, as the failure of Labour of income he receives. Until that stage is aldermen has a very deleterious effect on reached, the system will be unfair. Labour candidates in the same area at State and Federal elections. I do not think any The hon. member for Toowong objects to member of the A.L.P. will deny that at the the itinerant-the person who comes in last Queensland State election the actions of carrying his swag, the man who might be in the A.L.P.-controlled Brisbane City Council town for a few weeks earning a living-hav­ had an injurious effect on the chances of ing a vote. Well, if he gets his name on the metropolitan Labour candidates. roll, he gets a vote in the local-government elections. I think that is only democratic, It is all very well if a political party enters and any suggestion to the contrary is a the local authority field and does a good negation of democracy. I am amazed that job. If its representatives do not do a good the hon. member for Toowong should make job, its candidates at State and Federal elec­ that suggestion. But if every person in the tions have to carry the burden, like the State knew that a portion of his income tax Old Man of the Sea. would be diverted to local-government revenue, he would be entitled to a vote in the Mr. Smith: The council made sure of put­ local-authority election not only because he ting roads and guttering in wards where there was, for the time being, a resident of the were A.L.P. candidates. local-authority area, but also because he had supplied his quota of the financial commit­ Mr. AIKENS: If I may use the vulgar ment for the upkeep of the area. vernacular, the Brisbane City Council is "on the nose," and the Liberal candidates in the Here is where I take a very great risk with metropolitan area profited by that at the last the Minister for Lands; but I am going to State election. take it because I think it is my duty to do so. I wish to mention again, seeing that he raised the matter, that the hon. member for Mr. Smith: I will hold the door open for Toowong has a queer and confused idea of you. how local authorities should be financed. I have never been happy about the way local Mr. AIKENS: The hon. gentleman is not authorities are financed at present-that is, likely to make a physical attack on me. that the landowner pays rates. If he is a home-owner, he pays not only rates on his I intend to lay a charge of what I con­ land but also water rates, sewerage rates, sider is corruption against the Townsville and other rates. I have never been able to City Council, and I am going to ask the understand why I, who could afford to pay Minister to set up a committee of inquiry in higher rates, should pay the same rates as the Townsville similar to the one that has been little widow-woman who lives round the set up in Brisbane so that this matter can be corner. Because her allotment is valued at ventilated and dealt with on the highest the same figure as mine and because the sewerage rate is uniform throughout Towns­ possible level. I do not intend to go into the ville, she pays exactly the same sewerage matter in general terms m make any general rates and general rates as I do. The only remarks about it. I shall quote from difference is that I pay a few extra pounds documents. in water rates because my home has a slightly First, I tell the Committee that a man larger floor area than hers. Why should that named W. C. de Courcey owned 47 acres of unfortunate widow, or a young man struggling to rear a family and pay off his home, pay land in the Aitkenvale area, at the Aitkenvale exactly the same rates as I do? There are, end of Townsville. Under the Town Plan, of course, many men in Townsville who are that land was frozen. It was declared future wealthier than I am. There are some bar­ urban land and, therefore, as the hon. risters there, and, as all hon. members know, member ,for Chatswo:rth said, it was frozen. barristers wallow in affluence. Why should The Town Plan was adopted by rhe Towns­ the ordinary battlers ha,ve to pay exactly the ville City Council and sent to the Minister same rates on their allotments as barristers for Local Government for his decision on it. do? While the land was frozen, while it was classed as future urban by a town plan Mr. Hinze: What do you suggest? adopted by the council, de Courcey made an application to the Townsville City Council Mr. AIKENS: I am about to suggest for a subdivision of it, not knowing that a something. I really believe that the day subdivision was illegal and unlawful once the must come-it will come only when people Town Plan had been adopted. Mr. de involved in local-authority affairs begin to Courcey would not know it but the council agitate for it-when a moiety of Federal must have known it, so I hope the Minister income taxation will be made available on for Lands will not claim afterwards that local-authority finance, and every person these documents are forgeries. I can assure should have to pay, as he now pays towards him that they are not. the upkeep of the Federal Government and the State Government, towards the upkeep of Mr. Smith: How did you get them? 1920 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

Mr. AIKENS: I got them from de Courcey. tramfer of allotment 2 will have no bearing Under date 7 January, 1966, headed dn the determination of park contribution "Townsville interim development by-law", the when the balance area is subdivided. Townsvi!le City Council wrote to Mr. Yours faithfully, de Courcey as follows:- Wilson, Ryan & Gross." "Dear Sir, Proposed subdivision of land~Allot­ That was a blackmailing offer made by the melllts 1 & 2 of sub. 4 of Resub. 3 of council to de Courcey, that if he withdrew Sub. 3 of Resub. 2 of Sub. 1 of Portion 38, his objection to the Town P}an they would Ross River Road, Aitkenvale. grant the subdivision. de Courcey replied "I refer ,to your application for a permit allld refused to accept the blackmailing offer. under the Interim Development By-law in Mr. Smith: A man of principle. respect of tl:re above. I have to inform you of t'he Council's decision in this matter as follows:- Mr. AIKENS: I thank the hon. member for that interjection, because I a;m now going to (1) A permit is ihereby granted: To ask him for his opinion of the people who the proposal to subdivide two allotments wrote this letter, under date 2 June, 1966- as indicated on P1an T.P.S. 94. Allotment 1 will contain an existing "TownsviUe Interim Development By-law dwelling house, and th:e Council accepts "Dear Sir, your offer to transfer to the Council Proposed Residential Subdivision­ a fee simple title to Allotment 2." Balance of Sub. 4 of Resub. 3 of Sub. Incidentally, the subdivision sought was for 3 of Resub. 2 of Sub. 1 of Portion 38, an allotment containing the existing dwelling, Ros:s River Road, Aitkenvale which was de Courcey's home. Then the "I refer to your application for a permit council adds this comment, and I should like under the Intel'im Development By~law in the Minister for Lands to take note of it- respect of the above. I have to inform "In conveying this decision the Council you of the Council's decision in this matter further points out that the permit is as follows:- ,granted on the understanding that you will A permit is hereby refused for the withdraw your objection to the Town following reasons:- Planning Scheme and that the transfer of (a) The proposed dev.elopment will allotment 2 will have no bearing on the prejudice ~he orderly and proper determination of park contribution when growth of the locality. the balance area is subdivided." (b) In the Council's opmwn, I should like to mention ihere, in case I have essential public utility services are not not mentioned it before, thart: de Courcey had available ·to serve t:he propQSed lodged an objection vo the Town Plan, which development. zoned the whole of his land as future urban. (c) There is no adequate drainage There is blatant blackmail i'n which Vhe for the proposed development. council agreed to de Courcey's a;pplication to subdivide, provided de Courcey withdrew his Yours faithfully, objection to the Town Plan in respect of his C. B. Campbell, Town Clerk. land. That letter is signed "C. B. Campbel!, Town Clerk, per John Manton, Acting Per: John Manton, Planner." Acting City Planner." On 1 February, 1966, through his solicitors, All those objections, of course, were Messrs. Wilson, Ry:!n aoo Gross, de Courcey applicacble in tihe first place when they made wrote to the Town Cl'erk, Townsvi!le City their blackmailing offer, but they did not CQuncil, as fol!Qws:- mention any objections in the first place. "De·ar Sir, Their only suggestion was Vhat ~hey were prepared to make a blackmailing deal with Re: W. C. de Courcey~Proposed sub­ division of land, Allotments 1 & 2 of de Couroey that if he would withdraw his Sub. 4 Qf Resub. 3 of Sub. 3 of Resub. objection to the town plan with respe-ct to 2 of Sub. 1 of Portion 3'8, Ross River the whole 47 acres they would let him sub­ Road, Aitkenvale. divide the land in order to place his home on a separate allotment, and de Courcey refused to do it. The matter goes further. "We act for Mr. de Courcey, who has The Minister for Local Government knows referred to us your l'etter to him of 7th all about it. 11hese papers are part of a January, 1966, reference T.P.S. 16/86 bundle of documents that de Courcey brought to Brisbane a'nd made available to officers C.M.W. 16~12-1965. of the department of Local Government. I "Our client has instructed us to advise did not have bime to deal with them fuLly that he is not prepared to accept the permit during the Address-in-Reply debate, but I on the conditions under which it is granted, mentioned them briefly. The Minisrer for namely, that he withdraw his objection to Local Government knows all about the the Town Planning Scheme, and that the existence of these documents. The hon. Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1921

member for Windsor has not made any the council said, "We don't care whether the observation cdncerning the action of the land is shown on our Town Plan as future council-- urban or not. We don't care whether the land is frozen or not. As long as you with­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! draw your objection to the whole of those Mr. AIKENS: What the Minister does not 47 acres we will allow you to subdivide the know is that subsequently de Courcey sold the land. We will allow you to put de Courcey's whole of the 47 acres. He could not get home on a separate allotment with a separate approval for subdivision from the council so title." Tapiolas has since sold to another that he could put his big, old home on a sep­ buyer the land on which the home stood. arate allotment with a separate title, so he I admit that the Bill is a step in the right sold the whole 47 acres to a man named direction, but no-one knows better than I, Tapiolas. and the Minister-perhaps he is adopting Mr. Richter: At a loss? the attitude that he must hasten slowly­ that there is still a long way to go before Mr. AIKENS: I feel sure the MinisteT people who live in areas outside Brisbane aTe could find out what he sold the land for, given the same locrul-~uthOT[ty rights as those because all these prices have to be lodged who live in Brisbane. Nevertheless, it is a with the Valuer•General. I am not quite step in the right direction and I commend sure what he sold his land for, but you can the Minister for it. I hope it will not be long bet your life he was anxious to get out. He before he introduces further amending legis­ sold the whole 47 acres to a Mr. Tapiolas, lation. who immediately withdrew his objection to Mr. Richter: For instance? the Town Plan. Of course, he bought the objection when he bought the land. He Mr. AIKENS: Legislation giving to people promptly withdrew the objection to the Town who are appealing against a town plan the Plan and the council immediately granted right to be heard by a District Court judge, him the right to subdivide that they refused as is the case in Brisbane. de Courcey. Tapiolas has since sold de Courcey's home and the allotment on which Mr. Richter: That is in the Bill. de Courcey's home stood, with a separate Mr. Bennett: You weren't in the Chamber. title, for an amount that was told to me but which I have forgotten. Anyway, what does Mr. Richter: You weren't here. the price matter? It is the principle that should concern us. Mr. AIKENS: If it is in the Bill I con­ gratulate the Minister. When the hon. TheTe is an instance of 47 acres of land member for Burdekin told me that the Bill that had been frozen as future urban land. was being introduced, I hurried in. I am There is the blackmailing offer by the council sorry I missed that point. If it is in the to the then owner, with the council saying, Bill I congratulate the Minillter. "If you will withdraw your objection to the Town Plan we will g;rant you permission to In reply to the interjection from the hon. subdivide in defiance of the Town Plan." As member for South Brisbane, who has just I understand it, once a town plan is adopted blown in and said that I was not here, when by a local authority the Minister for Local the hon. member asked a question about Government is the only person who can Dalby this morning he thought it was the either suggest alterations to the town plan name of a racehorse. I do not mind any­ or himself alter the town plan. Yet in body except the hon member for South defiance of the Minister for Local Govern­ Brisbane sitting in judgment on me for my ment, in fact in contempt of the Minister for peregrinations in and out of this Chamber. Local GoveTnment, after the Townsville City I think we all share those sentiments. Council had accepted and endorsed the Town Plan, it said to de Courcey, "We don't care I again congratulate the Minister for whether on our Town Plan the land is future writing such a provision into the Bill, but urban land or not, whether it is frozen or not. now he has to clean up a matter concerning Provided you withdraw your objection to the enrolments. Why is it that a person who Town Plan we will grant you permission to lives in Brisbane can have his name placed subdivide the 47 acres so that you can have a on the electoral roll--and vote--right up to separate allotment and a separate deed for the day of the closing of nominations, the land on which your home stands." When whereas in country areas--that is, every area de Courcey would not accept their blackmail­ outside Brisbane--names must be on the ing offer they refused him permission to put roll on the 31st day of December preceding his home on a separate allotment with a the municipal elections. separate title. Mr. Hanlon: I think the City of Brisbane The moment de Courcey sold and the new pays an extra fee for the supplementaries. owner bought the whole 47 acres and sub­ Mr. AIKENS: If that is so, why don't the mitted to the blackmailing offer of the others? Townsville City Council by withdrawing his objection to the Town Plan, again in con­ Mr. Hanlon: Apparently they don't want tempt of the MinisteT for Local Government to. 1922 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

Mr. AIKENS: We have a right to lodge soon be in Goodna. In order to retain my an objection when a local authority outside sanity I try not to spend too much time in Brisbane introduces a town plan. But, if the Chamber when he is here. anybody objects to it, the objection is not If it is something I did not hear, I shall sent direct to the Minister. The local ·be pleased to hear it from the Minister or authority attaches sarcastic comments and read it in the Bill. I do not come here pins it to the town plan, and then sends it claiming to possess all the intelligence and to the Minister. It then depends on the knowledge in the world, as the hon. member calibre of the Minister what happens to the for South Brisbane does. I am a humble, objection. simple seeker of the truth, a representative of the people who send me to this Parliament. I am not unhappy with what the Minister Here is a case and I make this appeal to the is proposing to do with the shocking mon­ Minister: in view of the documents I have strosity known as the Town Plan of Towns­ read and the statements I have made, the ville. Having had a look at the position Minister should appoint either a royal com­ himself, the Minister really thought that the mission or a committee of inquiry to be set up town plan for Townsville should be amended in Townsville, or wherever else he desires, in certain ways, but the other day, when he to inquire into this charge of corruption that sent it to the Townsville City Council as he i have made against the Townsville City was required to do they got up on their high Council. horse and in effect, said, "Who the hell is the Minister to make suggestions and recom­ Mr. DONALD ~Ipswich East) (4.27 p.m.): mendations to us? We are not going to As I was called from the Chamber, I did accept the Minister's recommendations for not have the opportunity or privilege of amendments to the town plan. If he wants hearing the Minister introduce the Bill. to amend the town plan, let him do the However, I have had the opportunity of bloody thing himself." That was the attitude listening to members of this Parliament, they adopted. I think I know the Minister who were members of a local govern­ well enough to be sure that he will say, "If ment body before entering Parliament, that is their attitude, if they want it, they including the hon. member for ·Ipswich West. can have it." That is the sort of thing we As they found no fault in the Bill and gave have to put up with in Townsville. I can it their blessing, and also thanked the see the Minister for Lands wanting to jump Minister for introducing it, I would not have to his feet and abuse and scarify me. I do found it necessary to ·rise to my feet until I not mind that. heard the hon. member for Toowong deliver an irresponsible, conservative, and reactionary Mr. Bennett: He isn't taking any notice speech that typified the thinking of the Liberal of you. Party of Queensland. We cannot afford to disregard what he said or treat it lightly. Mr. AIKENS: No-one takes any notice He is not an irresponsible member of this of him. I thank the hon. member for South Chamber, nor is he an irresponsible member Brisbane for his interjection. of his party. Before he came rto this Chamber I think I have proved a case by the docu­ he was general secretary of the Liberal Party ments I have read, and the statements I have of Queensland, so what he said here today made, of an attempt by the Townsville City reveals the policy of the Liberal Party of Council to blackmail a landowner. When Queensland and supports the accusations I it failed and the ratepayer sold the land have frequently made that the Liberal Party to someone else, it successfully blackmailed of Queensland is not a Liberal Party in the the new owner. It did all this in defiance political sense. of its own town plan; in defiance of the The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. zoning set out in the town plan and in Hodges): Order! defiance of the requirements of (he law, as I understand it, that once a council adopts Mr. DONALD: On the contrary, it is a a town plan no alteration or amendment can conservative party, and any member who will be made to it without the prior consent of get up in this Chamber, or anywhere else, and the Minister for Local Government. advocate that some people should not have a vote and that other people should be allowed Mr. Richter: That is another one you did to have more than one vote is a conservative not listen to. and a reactionary, and he cannot deny it. Mr. AIKENS: Well, the Minister can tell If it is permissible for an hon. member to me. I am here to learn what I did not suggest that a man should have a vote wherever he owns an allotment of land it is listen to. permissible for me to criticise him, and he did Mr. Bennett: You should spend more time say that some people should not have a vote. in the Chamber. Who are the people he would deprive of this right of franchise? They are the useful people Mr. AIKENS: I do spend some time in the of this State of Queensland, the people who Chamber when the hon. member for South are responsible for the progress of Queens­ Brisbane is here, and I am fiat out retaining land, for creating the wealth of Queensland, my sanity. If I had to spend more time in and for producing the commodities that the Chamber when the hon. member for enable us to enjoy a high standard of living. South Brisbane was in the Chamber I would These are the people he would deny the Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1923 right to choose whom they wanted as their to the local authority. If a man or a local representatives. That reveals the policy woman rents a home from any person or of the Liberal Party. company, he or she has to pay the rates n is not so many years ago that the on it through the rent charged. A single franchise of this State was based on what man or woman who lives in a boarding-house the hon. member is now advocating for local pays to the person who conducts it, in government. No-one can deny that local the payment for board and lodgings, the government is very responsible government. rates payable on the property. People who In fact, it could be truthfully claimed that it is are paying rates in this way are entitled one of the most responsible forms of govern­ to a vote, as they have just as much interest ment in the Commonwealth. It comes close in the community as anyone else, even a to the people and caters for their daily needs, millionaire who may own half the State. whereas the national Government and the Such a person does no more for the welfare State Government are more remote. Anybody and development of the State than the most who in any way seeks to interfere with the humble man or woman in it. No-one who progress or election of a local government calls himself a democrat could say that must be branded a reactionary of the highest because a man has no property, although order. he may have worked hard all his life but The hon. member suggested that we return never had sufficient money to build a home, to the franchise that previously existed in he should not have a vote, whilst others this State-it still exists in some other States who may have inherited property in every -and that deprives the useful people of a electorate in Queensland should have 78 vote and gives the right to vote in a number votes. of local-authority areas to others because they have wealth or were fortunate in The hon. member then makes another speculation and own land. That used to very conservative and outrageous suggestion, be the franchise for the election of members that is, that everyone, including those who to this Chamber. However, in Queensland own no property but pay for the privilege we now have a democratic form of of living in a home or a boarding-house, government. We do not have an Upper should be taxed on every commodity he House. What criticism was heaped on the has to buy. He called it a second sales Australian Labour Party when that Chamber tax on every citizen. How reactionary can was abolished! What great calamities were one become? How class-biassed can one to befall the State! None of those things become? The hon. member wants to make happened, nor has this Government tried a man who has already paid his just taxes to alter the present system. There is in and rates pay them again to ease the burden Queensland no property franchise, as there of the man who is affluent. But the man is in some other States, nor is there an that the hon. member for Toowong is asking Upper House, and we have every reason to pay a second sales tax, in his view is to be proud of that fact. That is one of not worthy of a vote. He does not own the benefits that the Labour Party gave to any property; he has not a big bank account. the ordinary people. Why should he have a vote? Unless he has property, according to the hon. member I have no reason to doubt that the hon. he is not a worthy citizen. I am quit~ member for Toowong was sincere in his justified in putting that interpretataion on the advocacy today, because he is a conservative words of the hon. member for Toowong. and wants to take all the privileges he can from the working man and give extra I have said that local government is a privileges to those in a favourable financial very important part of the free system of position. That he has influence in his party government in Queensland, and in Australia. is beyond doubt, because we have witnessed I say, too, that more assistance should be not once but repeatedly during this session given to local authorities than they now of Parliament the way in which he and receive from the Commonwealth Govern­ some of his colleagues have harrassed the ment and from the financially starved State Government, to which he claims to have Government. On many occasions they have pledged loyalty. They use this Chamber to do without recompense the work of both to make attacks on the Government and Commonwealth and State Governments. The do things that should be done in the party moneys they receive from those Govern­ room, where decisions are made to which ments by way of loan have to be repaid by they should then remain loyal. They do everyone who lives in the area concerned. not do that. They bring their propaganda More money is needed to allow local into the Chamber to give publicity to authorities to develop their shires, towns or themselves and the conservative party to cities as they would like. which they belong. Many people who serve as aldermen and After all, who pays rates? One would shire councillors, or as chairman of a shire think from listening to the hon. member or mayor of a city, give a voluntary, unpaid for Toowong that the only people who pay service to the community in those positions. rates are those who own properties. If the There was a time when they were not paid, hon. member for Toowong owns a rented and I am sure the hon. member for Toowong home, he will not rent it without charging would like to see shire councillors and the tenant the rates that have to be paid aldermen again giving their services without 1924 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

payment. It would be a way of disfranchis­ Our participation in local government has ing the working people, the people who improved local government administration could not afford to give their services for throughout the State. That cannot be denied. nothing, and at the same time keeping them The records of cities and shires that have off local-government bodies. been governed by members of the Australian What adds to the value of property? Labour Party will prove that. To make it There is vacant land. A developer difficult for working people to serve on local comes along and says, "I will cut this up government, the present Government passed into allotments." At that stage the land is a regulation forbidding any member of the not worth very much. He incurs some Public Service becoming a member of a expense by having a survey made, and some local authority. The hon. member for local authorities insist that he shall pay for Toowong supports that move, of course. He the construction of roads and water tables. would be very enthusiastic of anything that He does that. Does it add to the value of deprived a working man of the opportunity the property or to the development of the to play a part in local government. That district? Of course it does not. He may is just what the Government parties want, have electric light and water connected to particularly the Liberal Party. the property. It still has no more value as If the Liberal Party were honest, it would property and no more development has taken call itself the Conservative Party; it would place. come out in local government elections and People have to move onto that property. call itself the Conservative Party. But it They have either to build a house on an hides behind a nom de plume in the hope allotment or purchase one that is already that it will hoodwink some of the people into built. The property has to be filled with believing that it is in no way connected with people. Who are the people who will fill the the conservative Liberal Party sitting on the homes built on the land that the land Government benches in this State. The developer has had surveyed and developed Liberal Party does its best to do that, but to a certain extent? Are they not the people at the same time it has men who have con­ that the hon. member for Toowong says are tested local authority elections running as not worthy of a vote? Of course they are. Liberal candidates in the present Federal If it were not for the working-class people, election. To say that a man can divorce there would be no development. If it were himself from politics in local government not for the first-class citizen who produces and come out as a parliamentary candidate commodities essential for progress, there for a political party is so much humbug and would be no development. These are the I do no think it hoodwinks many people. useful people whom the hon. member for It would be better to be honest and let the Toowong would deny the right to vote. The people know the truth, but agents of the hon. member has the audacity to call him­ present Government are afraid to do so. Why don't they decide to do so? I shall not self a democrat and to claim that he belongs attempt to answer that question; it is some­ to a democratic party. thing they can answer for themselves. But in Mr. Hanlon: Do you think that he would answering it, again they will not be truthful agree to the Minister for Lands having a but will attempt to deceive the people. vote for every piece of Crown land? I think I can conclude by saying that Mr. DONALD: If the Minister for Lands members on this side of the Chamber, and were a member of the Liberal Party, the true democrats throughout the length and hon. member would; but he would not trust breadth of Australia, will be alarmed and the Country Party with so great an asset. disappointed at the reactionary extravagant and conservative utterances delivered here I do not know what the people on the this afternoon, in this age of democracy, by Government benches think the people of not only a responsible member but a very Queensland are-and the members of the responsible member of the Liberal Party, a Opposition-when they have the audacity to man who even outside this Chamber has say that they are not interested in municipal great responsibility and immense influence politics and local government. If that is the in the Liberal Party of Queensland. I hope case, how is it that they have wasted so much that what he said receives the publicity it time in this Chamber tryir.g to discredit deserves. It will be a warning to those Clem Jones, the Lord Mayor of Brisbane, people who feel that the Liberal Party can and his party? Who has introduced politics be trusted and who might feel inclined to into local government more than Govern­ vote for Liberal candidates in the very ment members? If the hon. member for important election to be held on Saturday Toowong had his way he would not allow next. The hon. member perhaps has been supporters of the A.L.P. a vote, much less over-honest in his statements and he has let take part in local government, but he wants his enthusiasm run away with him. Appar­ the man from whom they rent a home to ently he could not resist the temptation to have as many votes as he has homes in get in a plug to prevent the working class different localities. from enjoying the franchise. The Australian Labour Party consciously I join with those hon. members on both and deliberately enters municipal govern­ sides of the Chamber who have served for ment. We make no apologies for it, nor do some years in local government in Queens­ we have any reason to be ashamed of it. land and who have congratulated the Minister Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1925 for introducing the Bill. In so doing he is City of Brisbane Town Planning Act. Whilst improving the position of local authorities I certainly agree with the extension of its throughout Queensland, and has hearkened jurisdiction, I hope that its life, as presently to the voice of local authority and given it constituted, may be a short one. One would something of what it feels it should have. indeed hope that the findings of the Hardie Perhaps this is because of his long years of Committee of Inquiry, in many of their association with local government. If my recommendations, will be brought into opera­ memory serves me correctly, before entering tion without much delay. It was recom­ the Chamber the hon. gentleman was chair­ mended in that report that a bnd and man of the Boonah Shire Council. valuation court be set up to deal with matters pertaining to land valuation. It was strongly I am glad of this opportunity to reply to recommended that appeal matters connected the hon. member for Toowong. But for his with town planning should also be dealt with speech I would not have risen to speak. by that court. Mr. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha) (4.46 p.m.): We have already heard of the difficulties Many of the matters raised by the Minister at present experienced in various parts of are of a purely machinery nature, and I the State where stipendiary magistrates, often do not propose to deal at great length with without any basic knowledge of planning those proposed amendments because I realise matters, are requi·red to sit in judgment. I the necessity to reorientate our thinking do not decry stipendiary magistrates in any about the valuation of coal-mining leases and way, but I do say that they are not the the other tenures mentioned. The proposal to proper persons to sit in judgment on such rate these on the unimproved-capital-value technical and vital matters. basis will probably spread the rate burden The Bill envisages the extension of the more .equitably than at present and will Local Government Court to cover the whole preserve the equity as between owner and of Queensland. That is in keeping with what owner. was originally suggested by me to the Mini­ The introduction of the City of Brisbane ster at the introductory stage of the City of Town Planning Act of 1964 was a matter of Brisbane Town Planning Act. The Minister some interest to this State. Hon. members now realises the wisdom of that suggestion. may remember that on that occasion I There has be.en a great need for it in places advocated uniform town and regional outside Brisbane. I congratulate the Minister planning for the whole of Queensland. I for implementing legislation to give effect to also urged for the setting up of an appeal this suggestion for a Queensland court. court to deal with town planning matters on Whichever way we look at planning and a State-wide basis. I discussed this matter attaining uniformity throughout Queensland, with the Minister on that occasion but it we will not achieve our ideals until we realise, was felt that although the suggestion had as does every other State in Australia and some merit it might be advisable to wait the more sophisticated countries of the and see how the then proposed legislation world, the vital necessity for town and operated. regional planning. I congratulate the Minister on his action A few evenings ago I had the very pleasant today in extending to citizens outside the experience of listening to Mr. Paul Ritter, the Greater Brisbane area the benefit of some of town-planning officer from Western Australia. the provisions of the City of Brisbane Town When we see what has been achieved by Planning Act. town planning and what a mess many cities If we are to deal with town planning we have got into because they have ignored it, should not deal with it in isol<1tion. If we we can certainly judge, without any hesita­ are to encourage town planners and regional tion, the great value of-and in fact the planners to this State they should know what great wisdom in-adopting a system of town limitations will be placed on them and what and regional planning for Queensland. requirements they will have to meet. Con­ I have raised this matter here on several sistency can come only with uniformity of occasions. Some hon. members may regard legislation. I believe that this is a very it as monotonous repetition, nevertheless I earnest attempt on the part of the Minister propose to raise it again and again at every to provide in the Local Government Act, opportunity, for in my humble opinion it is many of the worth-while provisions of the a vital matter that concerns Queensland now; City of Brisbane Town Planning Act and in fact, it concerned Queensland many years so ensure that people living in other areas­ ago. Let us not postpone longer a decision, particularly in the area from which the hon. once and for all, on this vital requirement member for Townsville South hails-are of the development of our city and our State. given the benefit of the same uniform system It is already known that I do not agree of town planning as is applicable to people with some of the provisions of the Hardie in the Greater Brisbane area. Report although I agree whole-heartedly One of the most important provisions with much of it. I had the honour and enunciated by the Minister is the one dealing pleasure of presenting evidence before that with the extension of the operations of the inquiry, and saw the splendid ~ay .in w~ich Local Government Court. As we know, this it operated and the depth to wh1ch mvestiga­ court was set up under the provisions of the tions were made into what might be termed 1926 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

the prope•r path that Queensland should amended to delete "30 years" and to substi­ tread in matters of valuation in Queensland. tute "75 years." The truth of one's state­ Let us all hope that it will not be long before ments may be brought home. The amend­ we introduce the necessary amendments to ment to make the lease subject to the legislation for the better government of the approval of the Governor in Council, as State as it applies to land valuation. I believe happens with a lease under section 32 ( 4) of the seeds are there for a vastly improved the Local Government Act, might be quite system, and I hope that we plant the seeds appropriate. But I remind hon. members that very soon. if section 49F is used for a parking station, and it is the only section that can he used, I hope we end up with a land and valua­ it carries with it certain other obligations. tion court for the whole of Queensland to which will be referred all matters of town Moneys obtained from parking station planning, all operations of the Valuer­ proceeds have to be placed in a special fund. General's Department, and a final appeal so I do not know whether the Brisbane City far as the Lands Department is concerned Council was aware of that provision when it in relation to the freeholding of leasehold decided to lease an area for the construction properties. I do not think anyone could be of a parking station. If that is the provision left with any misunderstanding of the find­ under which it is to operate, it should also ings of the Hardie Report on the Land be aware that in operating under this Court. Obviously he was not prepared to section the funds obtained from the parking accept the Land Court for the purpos.e of station will not flow freely to the revenue of determining freehold value. If we are to get the council but will go to a trust account uniformity in land-valuation practices in this and can be used only for certain purposes. I State we need one court to deal with that have no obJection to that. matter. This is a matter that I discussed at some I do not mind if the court is constituted length, apparently without a great dea;l of by a judge sitting alone or a judge sitting satisfaction or result, in another debate. It with assessors. Bearing in mind the scope of is pleasing to see the Minister now of necessity operations of that court dealing with matters introducing this measure under the Local of town planning, the judge might deem it Government Act, and I congratulate him necessary to have engineers, surveyors, or for doing so. architects sitting as assessors with him. In matters of valuation he might deem it neces­ I believe that the operations of the council sary to have competent rural valuers sitting under section 49F might not be conclusive with him. If we have one judge dealing in themselves. Perhaps the legal gentlemen with these matters there is a chance that in the Chamber may confirm this one way or we will be able to build up case history, the other. The type of structure likely to he which we have not got at the moment. erected pursuant to a lease of this nature Quite frankly, any valuer operating in this is proposed to play several roles. In the first field often has to resort to the findings of place, it will be a parking station. Within the Mr. Justice Sugarman and various other structure will be a bank vault and the roof eminent judges in this jurisdiction. The hon. will be the city square. I shall leave it to our members for Windsor and South Brisbane eminent land administrators to work out how would no doubt have referred to such cases that situation can be dealt with. I have my when they have appeared before courts that own ideas on it and I have already given deal with valuation matters. This is necessary them in the Chamber. I now watch with for the better government of the State. interest to see whether we deal with this in a very clumsy manner, or whether we provide I congratulate the Minister on the intro­ the necessary machinery to enable the duction of the provisions to extend town­ council to carrry out its wishes as the duly planning facilities to areas outside the elected body, Greater Brisbane area by incorporating those I should like to peruse the amendment provisions in the Local Government Act, and concerning section 49F. According to the to extend the scope of the Local Government Minister's introductory remarks, it goes Court to areas outside the Greater Brisbane further bv providing for the granting of a area, at least, at this stage, in relation to lease to be subject to the approval of the town-planning appeals. The ultimate is town Governor in Council. I shall be interested to and regional planning for Queensland. see the Bill when it is printed. I now come to another matter that I I again take the opportunity to congratulate referred to in an earlier debate. It is pro­ the Minister on the introduction of the Bill. posed to amend section 49F. I foreshadowed To me, the most important issue is the that section 49F would have to be amended extension of the town planning provisions prior to the Brisbane City Council's dealing and the operations of rhe Local Government with the land proposed for the city square. Cour1t to the whole of Queensland. I trust, On that occasion I was told I was wrong. and confidently believe, that it wiLl not be The wheel turns, and if I was wrong in some very long before we wnJ see, of necessity, of the things I said-and I am sure that time town and regional planning adopted in this will prove that I was not wrong-I was not State as it has been adopted elsewhere in wrong about section 49F. It is being Australia and throughout the world. Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER} Amendment Bill 1927

Mr. BENNETI (South Brisbane) (5.4 p.m.): programme that he intends to follow. The I wish to confirm the submiss•ions made by the electors then demand and insist, and his hon. member for Ipswich Eas1t. I do not colleagues in the party demand and insist, think that we as a Parlaiment should be that, as far as possible, he should pursue and ashamed bhat politics has entered the field implement that policy. of local government. As a matter of fact, In the days when there were allegedly no most local authorities are now playing politics politics in local government, in the main local to some extent. By no means the least of authorities were controlled bv self-seeking these is the Golkl Coast City Council, which businessmen who owed allegiance not to any is riddled with politics and, in some cases, organisation but to their own selfish greed. victimisation. Running second is the Red­ They banded together with others of the c1iffe City Council. In that sphere on one same type and formed cliques to make occasion we l:iad the spectacle of the mayor decisions in local authorities that furthered using his position to obta:in a seat in Parlia­ their own business interests rather than the ment. He certainly played politics to the interests of the community. That is why I bitter extreme. say that the change has been a good thing Mr. Campbell: Didn't you come in by for Queensland. way of local government? I know it is popular to say, "Let us not have politics in local government." That is Mr. BENNETI: I was not the Lmd why there are various organisations known Mayor of Brisban·e. If I il'ad Jlad the as the Citizens' Municipal Organisation, and respons.ibility of the leader, I would not have so on. But in fact they are pygmy Liberal deserted and run away to a nice safe seat organisations that have not the intestinal in Parliament. I wou~d have stayed to see fortitude to disclose their true position. things through; I would not 'have left it to someione else to take on thart: very responsible Mr. Carey: Do you dislike successful and onerous position. The point I make is businessmen? that members of the Labour Party concede Mr. BENNETT: No, I like to meet a and admit, in their integrity, that they do successful businessman, provided he has field a team of A.L.P. po!irtlicians in an achieved his success through honest endea­ endeavour to control local government. vour. That is why I do not like so many They are proud to do that. On the ovher hand, members of the Labour Party disdain hon. members opposite. They are business­ the untruthfulness of so many other politicians men of a different type. in this Ohamber and in Jocal governmenil: I can say truthfully that I am very who deny that they have any political pleased that the Minister has introduced affiliations and who, at the same time, use legislation to amend the regulations relating leading political organisations to obtain their to local authority tendering. It is a pity positions. In my opi·nion, that is very that the Parliament did not amend the code reprehensible. I believe it is a good thing to of tendering in Government departments. have party politios in local government. If it did, one would not see the racketeering that is going on in the demolition of the Mr. Houghton: Why? dome of Central Railway Station. That is Mr. BENNETT: Because for 10 or 12 simply a racket, and the Government should years there was a so-called businessmen's put its own house in order before saying to organisation in Brisbane masquerading under local authorities that they should consider the name of the Citizens' Municipal carefully their methods to ensure that there Organisation, and until the A.L.P. organised is absolute honesty and integrity in tendering. a strong body of Labour men to oppose it, Nobody can say that there was any honesty its weaknesses and misdoings were not about the tendering that was done in connec­ exposed. It had the run of the show until tion with Central Railway Station. a well-organised Labour team came in and The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. proved that the members of that organisation Hodges): Order! The hon. member is out­ were not all they were cracked up to be. side the ambit of the Bill before the Com­ The A.L.P. smashed the organisation, which mittee and is imputing improper motives. I is now a spent force. Even though the ask him to withdraw. "ginger group" at the back of this Chamber is endeavouring to resurrect it, their efforts Mr. BENNETI: I did not impute improper are futile. Their latest attempt, The motives to anybody. Anyway, I pass off Brisbane City Council Subdivision Use and that aspect by saying that if we do not have Development of Land Commission, has politics in local government then we have proved a complete failure up to date. cliques and pressure groups who are endeav­ The A.L.P.'s decision to enter the ouring to further their own interests. field of municipal and local government Another principle in the Bill deals with has proved to be a sound one and to be in town planning. True it is, as every other the interests of the people of Queensland and speaker has said, that it is desirable to have for their benefit. Members of the A.L.P. say throughout Queensland local government that when a person enters local government legislation that is consistent and consonant, as a member of a political party, he has to and as the Brisbane City Council is the lead­ put to the public his party's policy and the ing local authority in Queensland it is only 1928 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

right and proper that the other local authori­ permit such action on the part of any ties, as far as possible, should be brought inspector against a businessman who has been into line with the provisions applying to it. in operation for a great number of years. In the short time at my disposal at this No doubt with a great deal of accuracy the stage, I do not wish to deal with other Minister said-I will use the legal language amendments that should be made to correct -that, if there irs injurious affection of a anomalies that have already been created in particular property under a proposed town Brisbane but I do instance one. In the Local pran, the owner of it has the right to claim Government Act the word "building" is compensation. Theoretically, or to some defined as- extent, that statement of the Minister is "Any fixed structure which is either true. That is the p.os~tion when you have a wholly or in part enclosed by walls and town plan that has been approved and adopted which is roofed;" by the Governor in Council. I think it is under section 33 of the Local Government It is rather strange that the City of Brisbane Act that you can daim compensation. Of Act does not define the meaning of "building" course, there is a lot of planning and a lot at all; nor do the ordinances covering the of publicity given to proposed planning long building code of Brisbane, so that courts, before the proposal ever gets to the stage when dealing with town planning problems in of receiving t!he approval of the Governor in Brisbane have to go to the Local Government Council. Act to find a definition. I will refer to one case in particular in my Not so long ago a well-established Bris­ electorate. It concerns one of my constituents bane engineering firm, the manager of which who previously lived in Merivale Street. is a man of high integrity, had to remove Because of the high rating of that area he the roof of its building in order to get a deci!ded that he would sell his home. It large gantry crane out. One of the side was a lovaly old home in which he had walls also had to be removed. This firm had re!Sided for many years. In addition, the been in business at this site for at least 50 neighbouring property was being given over years. When the time came for the business­ to industrial development. In order to man to replace the roof and side wall he preserve the home as a home he shifted it found that the building did not conform to from that allotment in Merivale Street to modern zoning requirements for the area. It an:other allotment on the outskirts of was built at a time when there was no zoning, Brisbane. He decided that he would sell no residential development and no develop­ his land as vacant land. Because of the ment of any great note. It did not conform development of the neighbouring properties to present residential zoning standards; it was it was obvious that his land was readily an unattractive building of corrugated iron. saleable for industrial or commerciali purposes. The building inspector thought that this was He negotiated a sale through his agent with an ideal opportunity to insist on the building a purcha!Ser in Sydney. :Agreement was being removed, so that the development at reached on an attractive purchase price, but that site would conform to zoning require­ before the contract document was signed the ments under the latest town plan. Advantage Wilbur Smith Report was published. was taken of the definition of the word According to the Wilbur Smith Report his "building" to tell the businessman that an prope-rty will not be private land. Naturally unroofed building was no longer a building the industdalist or commercial purchaser in and that before he replaced the roof he would Sydney said, "I am not going ahead with have to get a permit. this proposition. I intended to spend a lot He was told that he would have to comply of money in the development of this land." with the ordinances and submit plans for Now this owner cannot sell the land to approval in order to replace the roof and the anybody. He has no right to make any side wall. Obviously, if he submitted plans claim for compensation from the Govern­ he would be told that the proposal did not ment, and in the meantime he is paying in comply with the existing zoning requirements the vicinity of £1,800 a yeaT lin rates. He and that the plans could not be approved. realises every morning before he has his breakfaSit that he has just paid another £5 In my opinion the definition of the word in rates to the Brisbane City Council. "building" in the Local Government Act deprived that man of the right to replace Mr. Richter: If he offers his property for his roof. sale and he cannot get a reasonable offer, under the City of Brisbane Town Planning Mr. Chinchen: Don't you think the attitude Act he has a right to compensation. of the inspector was wrong? Mr. BENNETI: I do not want to disclose Mr. BENNETI: I am not commenting on any confidences but this man did have an the attitude of the inspector; I am merely appointment with the Premier. He is retired saying that that was done. What was done and cannot afford to pay out £5 a day in by the inspector was strictly and technically rates on useless land-he cannot use it and in accordance with the Local Government nobody else wants it. Nobody could afford Act. As the law stands he was entitled to to pay that for nothing. I sincerely hope that do that. I do not think the law should the Premier informed him that he was Local Government Acts [24 NovEMBER] Amendment Bill 1929 entitled to an adequate amount by way of Mr. Richter: Are they valued under sec­ compensation in keeping with the offer made tion 11 (1) of the Valuation of Land Act to him before the Wilbur Smith Report was where they get the residential value? published. Mr. BENNETI: Under the Land Act There is no doubt that local authorities they are only valued for land-tax purposes. thmughout Queensland are starved for funds. Mr. Richter: Section 11 (1) of the Valu­ In the main they have reached the elastic ation of Land Act provides that where a limit or saturation point in the levying of property is a residence it is valued at a resi­ ra.tes. dential value. A concession is given; that Mr. Hinze: What do you suggest we do was introduced by your Government in 1954. about it? Mr. BENNETI: Now the nastiness must Mr. BENNETI: I very rarely agree with be introduced. The Minister said 1934; that the hon. member for Townsville South, but is ancient history. I think that in tJhe first place the Federal Mr. Richter: I said it was introduced in Government should honour its obligations 1954, and it gave people a concession. to local authorities. It has a responsibility to Because they had a residence on the land local authorities who are obviously it was valued on a different basis. contributing to tax'ation funds. There is absolutaly rio reason why they should not Mr. BENNEIT: I know that what the get their proportionate share of the funds. Minister said is correct to the extent that, if there are different types of development on The next matter applies more to Brisbane land, the valuer values in a different way. than to many other p'laces. Although there is development on the Gold Coast, Redcliffe, and Mr. Richter: You are missing my point. cities throughout Queensland, there is not as Mr. BENNETT: Perhaps I have not seen much unit development from which local the point. I know different values are placed authorities are stil1 getting on1y mdinary on land according to its development. residential rates. That is not right. Mr. Richter: This is a special clause in the Within 100 yards of where I live there is Act. If the land is in an industrial area or a multi-unit building called "Torbreck" a commercial zone, and is used for residen­ which pays rates according to the unimproved tial purposes, a special residential use value value of the land. is placed on it. Mr. Hinze: What about strata title? Mr. BENNETI: I see the point, but it is Mr. BENNETI: They have not got quite immaterial to the point I am making. strata title. It was constructed when we did I am saying that if land is used for many not have a strata-title system. There is no units that are completely separate so far as obligation on any organisation to build living is concerned there should be an according to the strata-title scheme. They individual rating for each family unit. can do as we did as barristers at the Inns of I view with a certain degree of disquiet Court, and purchase as a company. We are the proposal to make section 34 (19) (iv) shareholders in the company and pay rates of the Local Government Act apply retro­ only according to the unimproved value of spectively to the Brisbane City Council. the land. We are not rated according to I am not suggesting it should not apply as our interest in the company. such, but the proposal is that it will be deemed to have always applied to the Brisbane "Torbreck" family units in days gone by City Council. No lawyer or genuine would be on separate properties in various legislator can condone retrospective residential areas of Brisbane, and each of legislation, because it interferes with them would attract full rates. I am not contractual rights. condemning "Torbreck"; I am using it merely as an example because many other Mr. Richter: You are missing the point. units in Brisbane are in the same position. Mr. BENNETI: I am not missing the "Torbreck" attracts rates according to the point. It interferes with contractual rights unimproved value of the land. It contains and relates to a decision given in the Supreme about 33 units, for which, on separate blocks Court of Queensland. As the Supreme Court of land, the Brisbane City Council would of Queensland has given a decision on collect 33 lots of rates. If a large number contractual rights of parties, the law as of people Jive in a block of flats the position it stood when that decision was given should may be a little different, but in "Torbreck" not be interfered with. each unit has its separate services. Each Mr. Richter: The law is not being interfered unit has water, electricity, gas, and sewerage. with, but the ordinances of the Brisbane Each has everything that the Brisbane City City Council conflict with it. Council can provide, but they are all rated virtually as if "Torbreck" was a private Mr. BENNETI: That is what the court house on an ordinary residential allotment, held, and the Minister will get into a heap although they do pay extra water and sewer­ of bother if he says that contractual rights age charges. already entered into under the existing law 1930 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

are to be deemed to be affected by this The hon. member for Toowong opened up particular section, because obviously it was a wide subject when he said that some con­ the section that embarrassed the contractor sideration should be given to adult franchise in the dispute he had with the Brisbane and the granting of voting rights to owners City Council, and I am not prepared to of land in local authority areas. Yesterday believe at this stage that the amendment I introduced to the Minister a deputation of is not being made to try to correct the people from the Gold Coast who have the decision that was given by the Supreme Court same belief as the hon. member for Too­ and that adversely affected either a close wong. Because they live outside Queensland friend of a member of this Parliament or and own land on the Gold Coast, they a parliamentarian who was particularly believe they should have some say in the interested in the decision. There is no administration of that area. I had to present necessity whatsoever to correct contractual them to the Minister, whose arguments, I obligations entered into under the previous believe, should be related to the Chamber. law by trying to make the law apply to They are very real. them retrospectively. The Minister made the point that a person I concede that the proposals to amend the living in Hong Kong could own land on the provisions relating to realignment are Gold Coast and have the right to vote at desirable. But they do not go nearly far local authority elections. He pointed out enough. The provisions for realignment in that compulsory voting would have to be local government areas are implemented abandoned. normally in a harsh and shocking fashion, Mr. Smith: What is wrong with that? and no local authority has been free from blame in this regard. In the more developed Mr. HINZE: In my opinion, the present areas it can create great hardship. As a system is far superior to that followed in matter of fact, during the Chandler adminis­ other States where voting is not compulsory. tration a new alignment was declared in I cannot agree that it would be better to Albert Street. Following the declaration, do away with it; I think it is far too impor­ no building fronting that alignment can be tant for that. properly repaired or renovated. Only The Minister also said that there would essential repairs can be made. The local be problems in the preparation of electoral authority waits for the building to fall down rolls. Whereas at present we follow the or to be demolished and then hops in and simple system of using the State electoral says, "We want to acquire this land and rolls, there would be problems in preparing will pay the unimproved value." rolls for local authority elections when there The other proposal is that compensation are people entitled to vote who live all over must be paid immediately the land becomes the world. I am not exaggerating when I clear. That interferes with the orderly say that, because there are people living all development of the city. over the world who own property on the (Time expired.) Gold Coast. It is also impossible to legis­ late for one specific area. The hon. member Mr. HINZE (South Coast) (5.29 p.m.): I for Toowong owns land on the Gold Coast join with members on both sides of the and believes he should have some say in the Chamber in congratulating the Minister for administration of that area. I recognise his introducing the few simple amendments argument. contained in the Bill. Those recommendations Mr. Smith: It is much easier to prepare no doubt came to the Minister in a very rolls from property lists than the way they democratic way through the executives of are prepared now. You simply go to the local government bodies and from his own rating lists. department. Mr. HINZE: The point I make is that it Before I proceed further, I congratulate a is not possible to legislate for one corner great Queenslander, Mr. Paddy Behan, of the State only. What is being done now president of the Local Government Association is in the best possible democratic manner. of Queensland. He is held in such high A thousand representatives of local govern­ regard that for the second occasion he holds ment in this State bring their resolutions the position of president of the Local forward for discussion in conference annually, Government Association of Australia. and, if a majority decide that an amendment The hon. member for Toowong was, I is desirable, it is brought before the Minister. believe, quite off the track when he spoke That is the simplest and best way to work our this afternoon of local government in democratic system of local government. I Queensland as one of the three pillars of think it would be difficult to get local government and referred to it as, I think he authorities in Queensland to subscribe to the said, "tottering". Actually, quite the reverse opinion expressed by the hon. member for is the position. Anyone who analyses the Toowong. position of local government throughout I think that the auctioning of land, as Australia will see that Queensland leads in provided by the Bill, is desirable, as such a this field. This is confirmed by the fact that means of sale induces people to make higher the president of the Local Government bids than they would by tender. I also Association of Queensland is also president believe that local authorities should have the of the Australian body. right to provide bursaries for young people Local Government Acts [24 NovEMBER] Amendment Bill 1931 in their areas to enable them to attend a bed tax to tourists who came into the area. schools and colleges in other places. Again, There is nothing new about that; it is that is a good amendment. accepted in tourist areas throughout the The Minister referred to the Town Plan. world. I understand from the general Is it not logical that if the Brisbane Town manager of one of the largest hotels on the Plan has operated successfully, similar pro­ Gold Coast that some people who stay in the vision should be made for other areas of the hotel expect to be charged a room tax or State? I agree entirely with the idea of a bed tax. The argument could be used uniformity. What are referred to as the that if such a tax applied in Queensland contiguous local authorities meet every two tourists may prefer to go to Tweed Heads, or three months in Brisbane. Representatives Northern New South Wales, or some other of the Brisbane City Council and representa­ area in which it did not apply. I think it tives of all the local authorities surrounding will be found that a room tax or a bed tax the city meet and discuss matters of common is a necessity if the requirements of a quickly interest. They iron out problems connected developing tourist area are to be met. with roadways, subdivisions, park lands, and Finance must be found, and the 24,000 rate­ the type of approvals to be given. As a payers cannot be expected to provide result, uniformity is achieved. Regional amenities such as parks, sewerage, water planning is a very good idea; I believe that supply, roads, kerbing and channelling, and it should be extended throughout the State. swimming pools, and meet all the other Hon. members know as well as I do that if expenses of local government work today. one builds a little shack, one first prepares 'I suggest that some thought be given to a plan. More attention should be given to local au~hority finance being augmented in planning, and regional planning amongst local authorities is highly desirable. that way. I agree with the previous speaker that it is very important that we continue to I commend the Minister for introducing a argue our case with the Commonwealth provision that will enable local authorities Government for increased funds for local to take $20 an allotment to provide for parks authorities, because their problems are and recreation areas when subdivisions are growing every day. The responsibilities of made. In the canal estates area, about 200 local government are continually increasing, or 300 acres have been subdivided for sale and it is particularly important that we have and thousands of allotments have come on adequate funds for this purpose. the market. The subdividers agreed to pool the 5 per cent. that is applicable under the Listening to the debates over the last week Act and provide one large area for park and or two, I have been rather surprised to recreation purposes, instead of having areas realise the attitude of some members towards that were not big enough to allow young local government. They think that possibly people to engage in sport, which is so highly because they are members of this Govern­ desirable in areas that develop quickly. The ment they should have more say in local proposed provision is an extension of that government. I cannot subscribe to that view. idea. If a subdivision is only 2 or 3 acres ~f a local government is not doing the things in area it is impossible to take out 5 per 1t is set up to do, at the next election it will cent., and the idea of putting $20 an allot­ be quickly told and removed from office. If ment into a fund to enable local authorities anyone wants more say in local government to develop parks and recreation areas is a affairs, he can stand for local government good one. The hon. member for Logan and have his say. suggested that the Government should ensure This Government does not direct local that funds allocated for that purpose are not government in any way and I am proud of used by the local authority for any other the fact that the present Minister, the Director purpose, and I commend his suggestion to of Local Government, and the officers of his the Minister's consideration. department, appreciate this important point. The idea of having a Local Government Local government is charged with responsi­ Court is excellent. At present appeals have bility of local government and I do not think to be made to the stipendiary magistrate, and we should hinder it in any way. We should the proposal in the Bill is an extension of a never try to take over any of its functions. principle in which hon. members on this side As I have already said, if local government is of the Chamber believe. I commend the not doing the things it is set up to do it will be Minister for introducing it. quickly told about it at the next election and removed from office. I wish to deal now with local government finance. In the Gold Coast City area, 24,000 Speaking the other day on secondary­ ratepayers are trying to provide services for industry development, and referring particu­ upwards of 140,000 people who come into larly to decentralisation, I said that I thought the area at holiday times. This poses very local authorities should be allowed to use real problems, Mr. Hooper, as you will some of their funds to attract industry. I appreciate. I believe that the landowners believe they should be able to use some of in the area are rated as highly as it is their funds for the pul'pose of building possible to rate anyone, and the council has factories so that they can lease them to attract to find other ways and means of raising industry to their areas. I do not know whether finance. It has been suggested that revenue or not an amendment of the Act will be could be raised by applying a room tax or necessary to allow this. 1932 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

Quite often an industrialist will come into From time to time it appears that local an area with only limited funds. He wants authorities do not engage in good business land and all the things that go with the management. I think every hon. member setting-up of plant for his industry and then will agree that any business, whether big or he finds that he has spent his limited funds small, is dependent on its management. If and has no working capital. Therefore, I am we have good management, we have a good suggesting it would be a good thing if local business; if we have bad management, we government built factories and leased them have a bad business. That applies to activi­ to industrialists who wish to decentralise and ties in all walks of life. If we have good get away from the capital cities. In this business management in a Government, we way, we would attract more industries to have a good Government. local government areas in Queensland. This Government is a good Government In the Gold Coast area building approvals because it manages its affairs very well. There are running at an all-time high level. Last are times when we have cause for concern month, Albert Shire approved $600,000 about whether we are getting the right type worth of building, and Gold Coast City of business management on the local­ $2,000,000 worth. That is an industry on its authority scene. It was very enlightening to own. Twenty-five per cent. of all building hear the hon. member for South Brisbane approvals in the State this year were in the say-I am not sure whether these are his Gold Coast City and Albert Shire. exact words-he had great respect for cap­ This area is developing quickly and it is able businessmen. obvious that local government finance is becoming a real problem, particularly to All in all, I think councils and their some of the smaller local authorities in aldermen do an exceptionally good job. Queensland whose borrowing is restricted to Probably we should recognise their services the $200,000 bracket. Such a shire has only more than we do. I would never suggest to have one sewerage scheme and all its there is not a great deal of credit due to loan funds for the year are virtually absorbed. them. I am inclined to support the idea Obviously, if a local authority spends its that this Government should give considera­ loan funds for the purpose of installing a tion to increasing the amount of money that sewerage scheme over three or four years it aldermen are permitted to accept for atten­ cannot undertake any other capital works. dance at council meetings and committee meetings. At the present time they are T think it is important that we make this restricted to $600 a year; that is the point known when discussing this matter with maximum amount they can be paid. That the Commonwealth Government. The limit maximum is all right in small areas where of $200,000 was arrived at many years ago, many councillors are unable to attend suf­ and it should now be increased to allow the ficient meetings to qualify for the payment smaller local authorities to install sewerage of the full $600 a year. However, it is not and water-supply schemes and at the same enough in an area like ours, which is so big time have funds available for roadworks, and is growing to such a great extent. As parks, swimming pools, and that type of thing. a matter of fact, we suggest to the Brisbane In conclusion, I commend the Minister for City Council that it look to its laurels or we the way he has accepted the recommenda­ will overtake it. According to the Common­ tions of the Department of Local Govern­ wealth Statistician, we are now the 14th ment and the Local Government Associa­ city in size in Australia, which puts us very tion, and the democratic way the legislation close to the top. Many aldermen giving has been introduced. I commend the Bill to their services to the Gold Coast City Council the Committee. are spending hours and hours of their time on inspections and committee meetings in Mr. CAREY (Albert) (5.45 p.m.): Unlike an attempt to get the very best results for many other hon. members, I had no local­ the people they represent. authority experience before entering Parlia­ ment. However, as a man from the field of Mr. Duggan: If they are so good, why commerce I feel there is a lot of merit in should they engage the services of a specialist the Bill, and I compliment the Minister for to tell them how to run it properly? bringing down some of the proposed amend­ ments to the existing legislation. Mr. CAREY: That is a very good ques­ tion. The aldermen cannot afford to give A local authority has a very great respon­ any more time than they are already giving sibility to the people who elect it. Just as for the return they receive for their services. we are responsible to our electors, so are the I suggest there should be a slight increase aldermen responsible to those who elect so that they will not be out of pocket. I them. My experience in paying rates to a should have got further information on this local authority gives me some knowledge point from some of the aldermen in my of the responsibilities of aldermen. I am well aware that the local authority provides area. the government which is closest to the Mr. Thackeray: How much a year does people. It is a type of government that we Mr. Harley get? must all respect. We must endeavour to assist the men who are prepared to accept Mr. CAREY: Recently his mayoral salary the great responsibility of being the people's was increased to $5,000 a year. Of course, representatives in the local-government field. that may be reasonable, although some may Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1933

argue that it is not. I may be one of those In areas such as mine we depend on who argue that it is more than a reasonable developers because they bring money into amount. the area to start development. They should be assisted, not harassed. We should not put Mr. Thackeray: What other perks does he obstacles in their way if they are reputable get besides that? and honest subdividers. I was shocked to think that our council would consider taking Mr. CAREY: He has a car-a beautiful 20 per cent. of the total a

Minister. We suggested it was logical that Before the Country-Liberal Government there should be some basis of uniformity came to office some attempts had been made or code . of planning that would apply to produce a town plan for the city of wherever applicable throughout the State, Brisbane, and when the Government intro­ similar to that applying on a major scale in duced its town-planning legislation some years the Brisbane metropolitan area. At the time ago, hon. members opposite were critical of I think the Minister asked what we meant the delay that had occurred under Labour. by that suggestion. I can now say that we I think the hon. member for Bundabe-rg, who meant something similar to what is contained was a Minister in a forme'r Labour Govern­ in this Bill. ment, was accused of having pigeon-hoJ.ed Whilst it is desirable to have some some proposals. He informed hon. members uniformity in this matter, our experience with that that had been done because what was the City of Brisbane Town Planning Act is presented to him was only a series of maps relevant to our consideration in more or less and that the scheme had little possibility of bringing town planning throughout the State being implemented in a way that would be into line with what has been done in Brisbane. satisfactory to eithe·r the Government of the Today the Leader of the Opposition, the hon. day or the people of Brisbane. members for South Brisbane and Chatsworth, Therefore, when the Committee is con­ and others, referred to the concern felt by a srdering amendments to the Local Govern­ number of people in Brisbane at injurious ment Aots, and taking the· City of Brisbane affection caused by road planning under the Town Planning Act as a basis for application Wilbur Smith Report and, prior to its in other areas, I think it is relevant to examine presentation, the original road plans suggested in the town planning maps displayed maaers such as that. If hon. members on initially in Brisbane. this side of the Chamber do that, I do not want the Minister to think we are trying to I was particularly interested to hear the talk politically or make a nuisance of our­ Minister answer the hon. members for sdves, because the fact that doubts about Chatsworth and South Brisbane relative to injurious affection and compensation for it the provisions applying to claimants for have been raised by the Leader of the compensation under the City of Brisbane Oppo&ition and other members of the Town Planning Act of 1964. The relevant Opposition, and altso by the hon. member far part of that Act is section 13, which deals Chatsworth on the Government side, indicates with claims for compensation. It reads- that there is a certain amount of confusion "(1) Subject to this Act any person- and concern as to the exact meaning of the City of Brisbane Town Planning Act on that (a) who has an estate or interest in point. land in the City of Brisbane and such estate or interest in injuriously On 17 Nov·ember, a feature article by affected- Mr. John Atherton appeared in "The (i) by the coming into operation of Courier-Mad!". It was headed "On Brisbane's any provision contained in the Plan;". Home Front: Will a highway run through your living room? The Town Plan doesn't Without wearying the Committee by an say-but it may some day". Mr. Atherton's extensive reading of the section, I say that it is the key proposition in the matter of article shows thait, after his examination injurious affection where people are seeking of rhe matter and di:scussions with people compensation as a result of road widening or who are responsible for implementing the other matters raised in that context today. City of Brisbane Town Planning Act, he is not quite certain what !'he Aot provides. Doubt seems to exist about the extent to Mr. Ricllter: Is not that also the case which some of the proposals under the when there is no plan at all? Wilbur Smith traffic plan coincide legally with the coming into operation of any provision contained in the Town Plan for the Mr. HANLON: That is quite true. That City of Brisbane. I assure the Minister that is why I said at the beginning of my remarks I appreciate, as I think we all do, that it is that it is easy to be critical of somet:hing very easy to be critical on matters that are that in itself is ver.y complex and difficult to very complex and difficult. I do not think deall with. However, that does not mean anyone minimises the problems confronting that an atJtempt should not be made to deal the Minister's department and the Brisbane with it effectively. As I said, that was City Council in putting the plan into effect pos~>ibly one of the reasons why former and, as it were, getting it off the ground. That Uubour aJdministraJtions did not reach th·e stage is probably one of the reasons why we have that has been reached now, and possibly not had a town plan, and I think it is some fau1t lay with the C.M.O. council's regrettable that we have not. If a town plan of the day, too. If Labour Governments were is to be implemented, it must be implemented at faul1, of course, the Opposition is with the greatest possible expedition having prepared to aocept that. But one of the regard to the engineering and financial reasons why more progress was not made difficulties, and it must be as clear as was that Labour Governments were not possible so that everyone will be aware of satisfi·ed that !:he job could be done properly his rights and his opportunities under the at that time, and probab1y they thought it legislation. was better not to try to do it than to create Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1935 a hotchpotch that could not be put into oper­ that Stage 1 and the future stages of the ation efficiently or which did not treat the Wilbur Smith Report are being legally ci'tizen\S of Brisbane equitably. brought into operation under the City of Bris­ Having seen Mr. Avherton on television as bane Town Planning Act and are now incor­ a member of the interviewing panel on porated in it, then under section 13 it is true "Meet the Press", and having read other that such a person can apply for compensa­ feature articles by him, I do not think he is a tion of alleged injurious affection, writer who tries to create sensations. If he being the owner of land where a pro­ looks at something as a journrulist, he usua1ly posed road is to be routed. But he can do examines it very pointedly and on a basi's this only if it is accepted that the Wilbur that indicates that he is endeavouring to get Smith proposals in Stage 1 are now actually at the facts. ~his is what he said about part of the Town Plan. I do not know highways- whether the Minister can give us an assurance-- " A man buys a property and wishes to know how it stands in relation to the city's Mr. Richter: No; they are not in the Town future development. So he goes to the Plan yet. City Hall where he may see a section of Mr. HANLON: Then it would seem that the plan covering that particular area. the reply the Minister gave by interjection "Is a future highway likely to run to the hon. member for Chatsworth­ through his living room? Is a corner of although I appreciate the Minister has still the allotment going to be lopped off for to make his reply-was not quite factual. an expressway or a bridge or a round­ He said that anybody who is placed in the about? position outlined by the hon. member for "The Town Plan won't give him the Chatsworth could already seek compensation answer no matter how closely he studies and, if he was not satisfied with that, under those shaded zones. For it does not cover clause 15 of the City of Brisbane Town Plan­ roadways even though these are the arteries ning Act he could then make application to that keep a city alive and largely plot the court. Now the Minister tells us that its course." the Wilbur Smith proposals are not as yet officially part of the Town Plan, so he cannot And so on. He points out that at the Main do that. Roads Department there is another plan relating to the Wilbur Smith proposal as to Mr. Richter: He can when the roads are where future roads will go, and he goes on on the plan. to say- Mr. HANLON: When will that be? That "Stage 1 of the report has been accepted is the point we are trying to get at. We and the original town plan road proposals are not doing this in any way with the idea were scrapped. But all is not yet clear. of upsetting the work done by the Town "There is some doubt on Stage 2 of the Planning Committee or the Brisbane City Wilbur Smith report-whether this is to be Council. accepted or whether some of the old town I think it has been very clearly demon­ plan roads may yet be brought back into strated in this Chamber in recent days that play. some people endeavour to score off the Minis­ "In theory, anyway, one plan dovetails ter because he is trying to handle a com­ with the other. plex problem. Some people are trying to "Yet the Main Roads Minister (Mr. score off the Lord Mayor and the Labour Camm) told Parliament only this week that administration in the Brisbane City Council maps and documents were still being pre­ on a similar basis. They want to be critical pared to incorporate five year Stage One about matters that are complex in themselves, roads into the town plan. and they want to be critical simply because somebody is having understandable difficulty "And the public is still without detailed in the exact programming of a difficult pro­ plans revealing who will be hit by land posal. This is not in any way helpful and resumptions for the road scheme." we do not want to do it, but, as the Leader Mr. Atherton's remarks-and I think they of the Opposition and the hon. member for are applicable-bring me to the point I Chatsworth have pointed out, people-there made that section 13 (1) (a) (i) of the City are some in my area-who were originally in of Brisbane Town Planning Act of 1964 the first plan stage set down by the Town says- Plan were concerned when they saw on the map that it looked as if certain traffic-ways "Subject to this Act, any person- would flow through their property. (a) who has an estate or interest in land in the city of Brisbane and such Mr. Richter: Don't you agree that careful estate or interest is injuriously affected­ engineering should be finalised before the par­ (i) by the coming into operation of ticular location of roads is determined? any provision contained in the Plan;" Mr. HANLON: I agree with the Minister The Minister suggested this by way of inter­ that until these surveys are done and until jection when the hon. member for Chatsworth we get down to careful engineering it is very was speaking. If the Minister can suggest difficult to know just where these roads will 1936 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

go. The Commissioner for Main Roads, for Chatsworth and others did not suggest Mr. Barton, has already pointed out in that the Minister should do that, but they regard to the Wilbur Smith Report that the wanted to know whether more could be done proposed roads are still only lines on maps, to assist these people in some way. The and until the actual surveys are completed preparation and implementation of a town no-one is sure exactly where they will be plan has been going on since 1958 or 1959, constructed. In my own area, for example, when Sir James Heading introduced the first it would appear that houses in Blaxland town-planning Bill. The very essence of Street are to be affected whereas, when the what he said at that time was that we had to actual survey is completed, they could easily get a town plan under way; that we had to by 50 or 100 yards from the highway. do something to make a start or the prob­ Mr. Richter: The Council could be called lems that would arise would be the very upon to pay compensation twice-once in problems that had killed previous attempts respect of properties where the present line to get a town plan for Brisbane. is, and again later when the road is actually I was not going to speak on this Bill, but constructed. after listening with interest to the matter raised by the Leader of the Opposition and Mr. HANLON: That is true. The coun­ the hon. member for Chatsworth I was cil and the Government must have regard prompted to do so. I do not make my to that. But the point I am trying to make, comments in any parochial sense; it just with due respect to the Minister, is that I happens that the road proposals have some do not think it is very helpful to try to effect in the area I represent. I know the create the impression, in answering the hon. concern felt by a number of people. I do member for Chatsworth, that all these things not know whether we can satisfy their are covered by section 13 of the City of doubts or assist them in any way. The Brisbane Town Planning Act. Minister may say we cannot do anything until we proceed further with the engineer­ The Minister has suggested that if people ing surveys and so on. But if we have not approach me or other hon. members, the Wilbur Smith proposals incorporated in or Brisbane City Council aldermen, about the town plan obviously we have not got the difficulty in disposing of their property very far with the town plan. because potential buyers are concerned about resumptions because of suggested roads and People in my area are somewhat affected whether they will be able to build in accord­ because when the first town plan was ance with their own wishes, they can be introduced and maps were made available the people in Paddington and Milton called told they can apply for compensation under a protest meeting. I, and Alderman Marshal!, section 13. as the ward alderman, attended the meeting, I do not deny the points the Minister is and we pointed out to them-we did not want mentioning now. That brings me back to to agree with them just to make good fellows the whole complexity of getting a town plan of ourselves, although they were concerned off the ground. The Minister has to be about roads going through-that this was careful and not merely brush off complaints the first stage that had to be gone through by saying that these matters are already if we were to have a desirable town plan. covered by section 13. From what he says We said we had to get something to start now, it is quite clear that they are not. with to permit objections, and then get on When I say this I am not being critical of further with the job so that everyone the Minister or the Brisbane City Council. knew where he stood. Being good citizens, The council would be just as anxious as the although they were concerned they accepted Minister to see that these matters were our explanation. covered. Over several years we have had a succession of road proposals. In the areas of Milton We must have clarity in the implementa­ and Paddington we have the proposed roads tion of the Town Plan. When the Leader of under the initial town plan, which was the Opposition and the hon. member for adopted by the Government, and also the Chatsworth mentions these matters it is no proposals under the Wilbur Smith plan, some use the Minister suggesting that everything of which coincide with the original town is all right, that they are covered by section plan maps. In each case we are told by 13 of the City of Brisbane Town Planning the Main Roads Department and the Minister Act, when they are not covered at all until that neither may be correct because the the roads are incorporated in the plan. That survey could place the roads 100 yards from citizens are entitled to expect on this issue. where they are shown. Although it may satisfy them temporarily to Virtually the whole area of these suburbs tell them that there are compensation rights is under a cloud. I appreciate that this under section 13 for any injurious affection is part of the pains of getting a town plan, by road proposals- but I do not think we will get very far if Mr. Richter: How would you cover a we try to pretend to ourselves or to the person woo only feels that some day a road electors that these matters are already dealt may go through his property? with by the legislation. They are dealt with to the extent that when the final plan Mr. HANLON: That is the point. I do comes into operation and the surveys are not deny that there is a difficulty. The completed these people will be able to get Leader of the Opposition, the hon. member some compensation. Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1937

The hon. member for Chatsworth did Mr. SHERRINGTON: There have been not suggest that if we were to try to frequent instances of this very thing. I compensate everyone who might be affected, will find it. There was also certain criticism the Government and the Council might of other subdivision conditions such as the have to pay compensation for about 10 provision of sealed roads, sewerage, etc. different sets of properties, only one of Now we find, apparently, that these are to which might be resumed. The hon. member become the prerogative of local authorities, for Chatsworth merely suggested that there so there has been complete rethinking. The should be some machinery for selecting cases provision of land or an equivalent cash con­ in which great hardship is involved. Many tribution for recreation areas has been a of these people would not be wealthy; they feature of even small municipalities in are ordinary householders. Perhaps some of southern States. them may be approaching the age of retire­ ment and want to dispose of their properties, In the development of a city it is not and others may want to change their always found that an area thrown open for employment to follow job opportunities, as subdivision is developed in a reasonably is happening more and more frequently. Such short period; therefore I should like some people are entitled to some consideration. guarantee that those contributions will be I am not suggesting to the Minister that paid into a trust account so that when the there is any easy way to do this, and I area reaches a certain stage of development, take pains to point out that we should not it will not be found that the contributions be critical just for the sake of being have been swallowed up in the general fund critical of the Town Planning Committee, and spent for some other purpose, but-- the Minister's department or the Brisbane Mr. Richter: That is provided for in the City Council, all of which are anxious to City of Brisbane Bill which will be intro­ bring this plan into operation as smoothly duced at a later stage. as possible in the interests of the city. Mr. SHERRINGTON: I am pleased to There is still a certain amount of doubt hear that because it is most important that about the matter and it can be clarified only money obtained from an area should be by expediting the plan, if that is possible. spent in that area. Perhaps the Minister for Main Roads has some responsibility for expediting it so that Mr. Richter: It is within a radius of 1 we may know what we are doing in the mile. building of roads, as distinct from suggestions in the air from the Government and the Mr. SHERRINGTON: That is fair Main Roads Department. We have no enough. One good illustration can be found indication whether Stage I, let alone Stage II, in the transfer of the Mt. Gravatt University of the Wilbur Smith proposals will be site from the council to the Government. incorporated in the Town Plan. The Govern­ The local authority decided that the ment has a responsibility to give us an $1,400,000 or $1,600,000 involved would be indication. I hope the Minister will do spent in the area adjacent to the site of the so, as planning is most important. Anything university. This means that when the uni­ that downgrades planning and makes people versity is established there will be no prob­ suspicious of planners generally is not in lems with approach roads, etc.-all of the the State's interests. We must avoid that developmental work will be carried out. I as much as possible. do not think any fair-minded citizen would (Time expired.) say other than that money raised in an area could well be spent in that area, particularly Mr. SHERRINGTON (Salisbury) (7.40 if developmental works are required. p.m.): I do not want to delay the Committee I am glad to have the Minister's assurance unduly but there are a few matters on which that those contributions in lieu of the dona­ I should like to speak this evening. It is tion of an area of land will be protected somewhat surprising that the Minister has and will be spent in the area from which introduced a Bill which extends to local they are obtained. authorities many of the conditions contained I did not quite catch the Minister's in the City of Brisbane Town Planning Act. reference to rezoning of certain areas. I Many activities of local authorities, particu­ gained the impression that where rezoning larly the Brisbane City Council, have been is desirable a particular location rather than strongly resented by Government back­ a complete area could be rezoned. That benchers over the years. would seem to follow naturally from some In his introduction the Minister referred of the problems that have cropped up under to a contribution of $20 an allotment town-planning legislation. No town plan, towards the provision of recreation areas in however well thought out or designed, could all subdivisions. ever be expected to be perfect in its initial application. Mr. Richter: That applies in Brisbane. If I interpreted the Minister's remarks Mr. SHERRINGTON: Yes, and that is correctly, I think there is much to commend part of the legislation that was criticised by in them. I have a similar problem within Government back-benchers. the bounds of my electorate. Some years ago-going back to about 1957 or 1958- Mr. Lickiss: You cannot find that. the proprietor of the Sunnybank bus service 1938 Local Government Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

obtained permiSSIOn to use an area of land Brisbane" shows that Queen Street was never as a bus depot, and this use of the land has laid out properly but grew because of the over the years been a very shaky arrange­ buildings that were constructed in the area. ment between the company and the Brisbane I think Thomas Petrie was the first person City Council. Permits have been extended who made any attempt to draw up a town only on a 12-monthly basis, and at present, plan for Brisbane, and he was promptly because the area is not zoned as industrial howled down by those in authority. Because land, the bus proprietor does not know from of their lack of foresight and vision, the main year to year what his fate will be. If the streets of Brisbane are now only one chain Minister's statement means that in such wide instead of two. circumstances the land concerned can be I think the fact that 150 children cannot rezoned expeditiously, I applaud that action. be provided with a bus service because the Naturally these problems crop up in the Brisbane City Council has a limited amount wake of the introduction of any town plan. of money from the Commonwealth Aid The strange part about this particular case Roads Grant is an illustration of the diffi­ is that the bus depot is almost surrounded by culties that have to be overcome. The bus industry. It is within a stone's throw of the proprietor says he will not run a bus down project of General Motors-Hoidens Pty. Ltd. the road until it is sealed, and the interests but, because of some queer quirk of fate, it of the children are prejudiced because no was zoned in the Town Plan as residential proper subdivisions were carried out in the land. The bus proprietor, having incurred a early days. If they had been, there would :ather large outlay in buildings and vehicles, at least have been a reasonable road giving Is now hanging by the skin of his teeth from ingress to and egress from the area. year to year without any real security. If I wish to speak very briefly on the ques­ what the Minister proposes will eliminate tion of granting a 75-year lease for off-street this problem, I am sure that it will have the parking areas. I suppose the provision is approbation of all right-thinking members. designed basically to give private companies I had brought home to me very forcibly that obtain leases for off-street parking, either this morning the desirability of having under the city square in Albert Street or metropolitan subdivisions carried out cor­ elsewhere, a period of 75 years to recoup rectly, with the provision of sealed roads their capital investment. Although there is drainage, and so on. With officers of th~ a reasonably good case for the provision of Transport Department of the Brisbane City amenities of this type by private companies, Council, I inspected an area at Wacol I think it is a sad commentary on our society adjacent to the Queensfield Industrial Park that methods are still being used that were Estate where a bus service to the various used back in the depression. I remember the schools in the area is required for 150 construction of the Hornibrook Highway, children. Many years ago, before sub­ which was undertaken principally to provide subdivisional conditions were imposed upon a road to the Redcliffe peninsula but also subdividers, this area was developed by a to provide employment during the depression. hillbilly subdivider. I think he must have Today the Government still looks to private run a grader through, missing all the trees industry to supply basic public needs. and following the contour of the land. The It is true, as the Wilbur Smith Report area was subdivided into 2t-acre blocks, and shows, that Brisbane faces a very grave traf­ today the children are paying the penalty for fic problem. Bridges over the upper and that type of development. The Brisbane City lower reaches of the river, expressways and Council has a vote of only about $330,000 land resumptions are going to cost a tremen­ from the Commonwealth Aid Local Auth­ dous amount of money. In earlier debates ority Roads, Fund. I do not 'want to trans­ on town-planning legislation, I forecast that gress by going outside the scope of the $400,000,000 would be required to overcome debate, and I merely mention by way of Brisbane's traffic problems, pay for land illustration that almost that entire allocation resumptions, and so on. That now seems would be required to seal the necessary roads a little conservative. Because it will take to provide a bus service for 150 school many years to implement the Wilbur Smith children. It is a real problem, and the poor proposals, it is reasonable to assume that, in subdivisional planning in bygone years is a a growing community, costs of road con­ real tragedy. struction, resumptions, and so on, will increase considerably. It is a sad com­ Mr. Richter: All local authorities have that mentary that today we are still looking to problem. private companies. Mr. SHERRINGTON: Yes. Although I am a little concerned aboui the fact members of the Opposition may not agree that ,off-street pacrki:ng stations will have with Government members on the amounts leases for 75 yea:rs. I rhink everybody that local authorities are asking subdividers breathed a sigh of relief when the Story to pay-it is our right to disagree-! do Bridge toll was removed and when the toll not think any right-thinking citizen disagrees was removed from the Indooroopilly Bridge. with the principle that amenities must be Whilst it is possibly sound reas<:>ning to say provided when land is developed. That has that the citizens should pay for amenitie's been Brisbane's tragedy right from the early such as bridges, I think ~t is unreasonable to days. Greenwood and Laverty's "History of expect them to pay a toll over a great Local Government Acts [24 NoVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1939 number of years until a bridge has been If we accept thrut the St:ate is progressing on paid for over and over again. 1f I remember a sound industrial basis we must also accept correctly I once read in a newspa:per that the that as each new incllttstry comes to an a:rea company controlling the Indooroopilly toll it brings wit!h it the problem of finding more bri•dge paid a dividend of something like 38 money to provide essential services for that per cent., which was not a bad rake-off on an industry. This is a ver.y real problem in the investment in those days. major towns anld cities. Although it is very desirable to develop industries, their establish­ Perha:ps Brisbane warrants specirul consider­ ment brings financial problems in the ation as the capital city of the State. I provision of electricity, sewerage, water and pointed out previol!SI!y that nobody contested so on. If the local authoriis, as we are Report. I should like to make it perfectly presently doing in other mining leases. I clear that this report does not form part of believe that is fair and just. the Brisbane Town Plan. Until such time The Leader of the Opposition approved as accurate working surveys have been com­ of the other amendments and then dealt pleted for any particular stage of the report with the committee of inquiry. Apparently it would not be wise, or even possible, to he tried to drag me into an argument about include it in the proposals for the Town the committee of inquiry, but he is barking Plan. I mentioned by way of interjection up the wrong tree. that if the council took a line it could be The hon. member for Logan understood liable for compensation on that particular what we are talking about with town plan­ line. At a later stage it would carry out ning. I thank him for his very sound con­ engineering surveys and could take another tribution. He knows the problems; he is on line and pay compensation twice. the Redland Shire Council and understands Mr. Hanlon: I appreciate that. But what the reasons for what we are doing. is the position with the suggested roads that I thank the hon. member for Ipswich are in the plan? West for her contribution. When she spoke on the measure this afternoon she displayed Mr. RICHTER: They have not been sur­ a very sound knowledge of local govern­ veyed, and no engineering work has been ment. I compliment her because she stuck done on them. to the measure and did not engage in a Mr. Hanlon: According to clause 13, slanging match. She was good enough to people who think they are injuriously affected talk about the provisions in the Bill without by those proposals if they want to sell can diversifying and engaging in other argu­ apply, but under the Wilbur Smith Report ments. She appreciated the power we are they cannot. giving local authorities under the Bill to amend town planning schemes without open­ Mr. RICHTER: They have been taken off. ing the whole of the scheme to the public Mr. Hanlon: There are no approved roads for general objection. This has caused in the plan at all? trouble in Ipswich and quite a lot of other cities where, because of minor amendments, Mr. RICHTER: No, and until such time we have had to advertise far and wide and as accurate engineering surveys are under­ everybody has had a right to object to the taken the Wilbur Smith scheme will not go whole scheme. This will be a partial on the plan. advertisement. We are simplifying it as much as we can. We have discussed it with Mr. Hanlon: The provision about being the Local Government Association, and the affected by roads is in suspense until you hon. member for Ipswich West has a very bring some other roads into the plan? good appreciation of the facts. Mr. RICHTER: That is true. The hon. member also spoke about the The hon. member for Baroona referred to right to introduce by-laws. I do not know if the Wilbur Smith Report. It has not yet I clarified this point in my opening speech, been incorporated in the plan. I think the but under this proposal every local authority hon. member agrees with me that careful will have power to make by-laws just as engineering surveys should be undertaken the Brisbane City Council makes ordinances. before particular locations are determined, These by-laws may vary to suit the local authority and the conditions. The hon. otherwise we will be very uncertain as to member also approved of the Local Govern­ what compensation is being claimed for. ment Court. I agree with it entirely. I know Mr. Hanlon: The basis of clause 13, when it has been suggested that we should have you brought down the City of Brisbane a town planning scheme for the whole of Town Planning Bill, was the instance of the State. Some people suggested that we people who were trying to sell with this were wrong in dealing only with Brisbane. proposal hanging over their heads. That is This town plan scheme has been fairly hard what you suggest in the clause? to get off the ground, as the hon. members for Salisbury and Baroona said. I feel we Mr. RICHTER: No; but had the roads have done a good job in getting it off. It gone onto the plan, yes. Without roads on would have been very much more difficult the plan there is no threat. Roads could go if we had tackled the whole of the State. through a property, and because there was a proposed plan at one time the hon. member The hon. member for Toowong spoke is suggesting that it is a threat to the about a ratepayers' franchise. This matter individual. It is not a threat to the was debated across the Chamber. I do not wish to deal with it at present, and I will individual. not express an opinion on it other than to Mr. Hanlon: It makes sales difficult. Local Government Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1941

Mr. RICHTER: Wait a minute. Many the Town Plan. There is no threat of a people could say they cannot sell because a road on it now. That is something that can road will go through their properties. be applied to any block of land in the city. Mr. HanJon: Without their having been Mr. W. D. Hewitt: The fact remains that mentioned in the Wilbur Smith Report? sales are difficult to effect for that reason. Mr. RICHTER: Is the hon. member Mr. Sherrington: Nobody would want to buy a house that is affected by the Wilbur talking about Wilbur Smith or the Smith Report. previous proposal with the Town Plan? There are all these things and we cannot Mr. RICHTER: Do you mean the Wilbur compensate for them all. Smith Report or the previous plan? Mr. Sherrington: The mere publishing of Mr. Hanlon: How long do you think it the Wilbur Smith plan has had an injurious might be? effect on property. Mr. RICHTER: I cannot say; I hope it Mr. RICHTER: The publishing of the is not long delayed. initial plan could have had the same effect, Again, I think it would be very foolish but these roads have not been put onto the for the whole of the Wilbur Smith traffic plan. plan to be considered with the Town Plan. Mr. HanJon: The Government has This is actually to be done in sections. I approved of it in part. It has approved of think the hon. member will agree that before at least Stage 1, and probably Stage 2, of any section can be implemented, some t~e plan. definite engineering work must be carried out. There is a period of five years during Mr. RICHTER: They will not go on the which the plan can be altered at any time. plan, and these conditions will not apply until No debate on local government would be they do. Let us look at it this way: if a complete without the hon. member for road does go through a property the Townsville South attacking the Townsville individual will be fully compensated for any­ City Council. I do not intend to reply to thing he has on that property. He is free to any of his attacks. Most of his suggestions go ahead and build a house or anything are covered in the Bill, and I mentioned else he likes. them in my introductory speech. He was Mr. Sherrington: He will not be com­ not here to hear it, so that when he sees pensated at market value. the Bill I think he will be quite happy. The hon. member for Ipswich East spoke Mr. RICHTER: He will be compensated of ratepayer franchise. The Bill does not at full value for injurious affection. deal with adult franchise or ratepayer Mr. Sherrington: Full market value? franchise. Those things do not come into it, so I shall not go into them. All that Mr. RICHTER: Yes. He will be compen­ it does is bring local-authority electoral rules sated for any injurious affection. up to date with the amendments recently made to those governing State elections. Mr. Hanlon: This is vitally important. As you know, under clause 15 a three-year time The hon. member for Mt. Coot-tha spoke limit is set from the date on which the of planning uniformity. I agree with him claim arises. It will be important whether completely. He stressed the importance of the court interprets that a claim arises now, the Local Government Court and mentioned even though it is not in the plan, or in five its extension to deal with the suggestions years' time. contained in the report of the committee of inquiry on land matters headed by Mr. Mr. RICHTER: The claim could not arise Justice Hardie. now, because there are no roads on the plan The hon. member for South Brisbane now. spoke on many things, although he did not Mr. Hanlon: He will get full compensation say much about the Bill. He dealt with for injurious affection and his three years will local-government finance. Although I suppose not start until it is incorporated in the plan? he was entitled to have a "free go", he was not very helpful. He said something Mr. RICHTER: There will be no cause, about the term "Building" defined in section 3 will there? of the City of Brisbane Town Planning Act. He spoke of a building without a roof. That Mr. Hanlon! I hope somebody else does would be a "structure", and, if he looks at not successfully argue to the contrary. the Act, he will find that that is defined. Mr. RICHTER: If you are referring to Mr. Bennett: I was talking about approval compensation for a road going through a to construct a building. property, the compensation can date only from the time the road is gazetted Mr. RICHTER: The hon. member was on the plan. A person is free to go ahead talking about a definition. and build and do as he likes, on the one condition that he conforms to the zoning in Mr. Bennett: The definition of "Building". 1942 Local Government Acts, &c., Bill [ASSEMBLY] Medical Acts Amendment Bill

Mr. RICHTER: The hon. member said things to be carried out within, or within there was no defintion of a building without a mile of the boundary of, the subject land, a roof. namely- Mr. Bennett: I did not say that at all. ( a) the acquisition of a public park or recreation area or a public park and Mr. RICHTER: The hon. member for recreation area; South Coast made the point that I attend (b) the provision of capital works for local authority conferences. I attend as the improvement or enlargement of an many of the annual conferences as I can, existing public park or parks or recrea­ and I also attend many subconferences tion area or areas." throughout the State. Quite a number of the So the money will be used within the area, resolutions agreed to at the annual conference or within a mile of its boundary, for the pro­ emanate from the subconferences, and I vision of new parks or for the extension or endeavour to meet local authority repre­ renovation of old ones. sentatives in their own areas. They have the power to make by-laws, and I think it is Mr. Bennett: Are you going to send a wise to know something about the local copy of this Bill to Mr. Arnold Bennett? scene and local problems when one is consid­ ering by-laws. In my opinion, the Minister Mr. RICHTER: What has that to do with should visit the various areas and see for it? himself the problems that local authorities The hon. member for Salisbury spoke about face. some re-thinking by the Government. I point out to him that the principles in the The hon. member for Albert referred to City of Bri&bane Town Planning Act are the the responsibility of local government repre­ same as those we propose here. sentatives. Members of local authorities play a very important part not only in the Mr. Sherrington! It is peculiar that the running of their own shires but in the develop­ Government back-benchers attack those very ment of the State. The hon. member sug­ things. gested that in some instances a higher pay­ ment might be made to local authority rep­ Mr. RICHTER: I am talking about Government thinking. This is Government resentatives. I do not think that is a very policy. good principle. The ordinary man in local government is prepared to give his services Let me say in conclusion-anything I have free. He gives a considerable amount of his missed I will pick up later-that the reason time and energy to local authority affairs, but we are extending the principal provisions of it is a public service and he is prepared to do the City of Brisbane Town Planning Act to the job as well as he can. local authorities generally is that the local authorities requested it. They have looked Mr. Carey: That is true, but Gold Coast at this plan, they have approved of its City Council has an enormous financial principles, and they are asking for it. responsibility. Surely you cannot compare it Secondly, let me say that experienced with cities such as Warwick. authorities in other States have commented favourably on our town plan legislation; they Mr. RICHTER: J do not altogether agree have spoken very highly of it. Consequently, with the hon. member. If aldermen are doing we think it is quite good planning and, if it a job that officers of the department should is good enough for Brisbane it is good enough be doing, I have very little sympathy for for the rest of the State. them. Motion (Mr. Richter) agreed to. The hon. member for South Coast spoke Resolution reported. also about the proposed $20 an allotment to provide parks. That is a very wise pro­ FIRST READING vision. Under the existing Act local auth­ Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. orities take a percentage of the area that is Richter, read a first time. subdivided, and in many cities or towns there are small blocks of land that are of very MEDICAL ACTS AMENDMENT BILL little use because they are dedicated as parks or recreational areas. The hon. member for INITIATION IN COMMITTEE Salisbury and the hon. member for Albert (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, also referred to this proposal. The thinking Greenslopes, in the chair) behind it is that the $20 an allotment should be used in the particular area. Each local Hon. S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove~Minister authority will be free to make its own ordin­ for Health) (8.29 p.m.): I move- ances. Whether they conform to this pro­ "That a Bill be introduced to amend the posal or not is up to them. But the position Medical Acts, 1939 to 1963, in certain under the Brisbane City Council ordinances particulars." is this- In presenting this Bill to the Committee I 'The amount so paid ($20) shall be want briefly to outline its provisions. There expended by the Council within a period are four provisions of some considerable of three years from date of payment on importance, and a number of minor amend­ any or all of the following works or ments of the principal Act of an Medical Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1943 administrative, machinery nature. Of these, suppress this rejection, and should the trans­ some 13 deal with the conversion to decimal plant be successful the patient must remain currency and bring various penalties up to on these drugs for the remainder of his life. date in accordance with the change in money Experimental work in the United States has value from the days in which those penalties produced anti-sera which attack the cells that were listed in the original Act. Then there are bring about destruction of the kidney, and two clauses by which the terminology has this anti-sera might ultimately be able to been amended because, in the opinion of the take the place of the very expensive drugs Parliamentary Draftsman, the intention of the to which I have referred. These, of course, principal Act is not clear. are all matters of continuing investigation and Dealing with the main purposes of the experiment. Bill, I point out that the first amendment is The patients selected for operation must to allow of the removal of organs of deceased be young and must also be carefully selected persons for the purpose of surgical trans­ by a panel of experts in renal disease so plantation. This is a relatively new, develop­ that the precise cause of kidney failure is ing technique in surgery, and with this identified and the prognosis established. If development there arises a need for an transplantation is considered to be indicated, amendment to the principal Act. I will deal the patient is placed on the artificial kidney with that point in greater detail a little later. while being prepared for and awaiting trans­ plantation. Next to a living donor who is a The second amendment is to prevent a close relative, the best results are obtained doctor using a description in connection with from a person who has died as the result the practice of his profession which would of a road accident. convey to a patient that he was a specialist In view of the development of these in a particular branch of medicine in which, techniques and the possibility that they may as a matter of fact, he is not so registered reach the point when they can be effectively in Queensland. used, it has been decided to amend the Act The third amendment is to give the Medical in general terms so that, subject to the Board power to vary the periods of time approval of the Governor in Council from required to qualify for registration as a time to time, the transplantation of an organ specialist. may be carried out. That is to say, in place of the present very limited authority to The fourth is to facilitate the registration transplant corneas of human eyes, the of distinguished overseas doctors who visit amendment will provide for any necessary Queensland at the invitation of the university, authority to be granted for the transfer of colleges, major hospitals or learned societies an organ as and when any development in connected with the practice of medicine. medical science justifies this. In 1955 the Medical Act was amended to Mr. Hanlon: This will be reStricted to provide for the removal of eyes of deceased people who have indicated their approval as persons for the purpose of corneal grafting donors? to alleviate blindness due to opacity of the cornea of people to whom these eyes had Mr. TOOTH: Yes. The use of an organ been willed, or for storage in an eye-bank must be approved in advance, as the Bill from which they could be drawn for the pur­ states clearly, by the deceased donor. Indeed, there is provision in the Bill for close rela­ pose of alleviating the blindness of some tives, such as a wife, to negate the permis­ other person who would benefit from this type of operation. sion even in those circumstances. Mr. Bennett: It would be rather unusual Since that day research has been carried to get prior approval in accident cases. out into other transplantations of human organs, especially kidney transplantations, Mr. TOOTH: This brings in some cases and for the last seven years experimental of which no doubt the hon. member has kidney transplantation on animals has been had examples, where people in their wills performed at the Princess Alexandra Hos­ make arrangements whereby, for instance, pital in Brisbane by a team under the direc­ a cornea is to be given to the eye-bank. tion of Dr. R. M. Mitchell, Reader in Surgery of the Department of Surgery of the Mr. Hanlon: The late Alderman Buchan University of Queensland. was generous enough to do that. Recent advances in this procedure have Mr. TOOTH: Quite so. enabled this technique to be applied to care­ As these techniques develop, banks of a fully selected human patients with an increas­ similar nature may be established in respect ingly successful outcome. The results are of other parts of the human body. Hon. better when the donor is a relative than members will appreciate that this is a tech­ when he is unrelated. The work as carried nical matter of which I do not have full out to date would indicate that, if the opera­ knowledge. Similar banks may be estab­ tion is successful for one year, it is likely lished in the future. The amendment is to be permanently so. I understand that framed in such general terms as to enable with this type of operation the body often the Governor in Council from time to time rejects the transplant, but there are now drugs to meet the changing conditions that may available-extremely expensive drugs-which arise. 1944 Medical Acts [ASSEMBLY) Amendment Bill

I wish to make it clear at this stage that in a hospital. Most people who have skin it is not intended to establish the unit at troubles are treated at the out-patients' Princess Alexandra Hospital in the immedi­ department or at a clinic and return home. ate future, as much work still remains to be It would have to be a very bad case before done and much more investigation under­ the person would be put into hospital. taken. The Medical Board is of the opinion that The next point in the Bill is a provision each specialty should be treated on its merits to prevent a doctor using a description in and that the periods of time in which experi­ connection with the practice of his profes­ ence should be gained and the places where sion that would convey or indicate that he such experience may be gained should be is a specialist in a particular branch of varied to suit the requirements of each medicine in which he is not so registered individual specialty. in Queensland. This has become necessary due to a number of instances, and in par­ Mr. Melloy: Will they have to do a post­ ticular, to an incident that occurred earlier graduate course as well? this year when a doctor displayed a sign containing the words "Medical Centre for Mr. TOOTH: Yes. That is the signific­ Women." The doctor was a practitioner who ance of having a special post-graduate degree. held the degrees of Bachelor of Medicine I have said that an applicant for registration and Bachelor of Surgery and he displayed as a specialist must possess a higher quali­ this notice on his plate. The Medical Board fication where such can be obtained. There was of the opinion that this conveyed that are one or two specialties in which that he was a gynaecologist and to clarify the higher type of qualification is not available. position has recommended the amendment contained in the Bill to meet this problem. Mr. Melloy: Could he have done it prior The amendment prescribes what designation to any post-graduate course? a medical practitioner or specialist is authorised to use, and makes the use of Mr. TOOTH: No, it is always a post­ anything other than such authorised designa­ graduate course. tion misconduct in a professional respect. Mr. Melloy: He normally could not obtain In the preparation of the amendment the any higher qualification unless he does a post­ board gave careful consideration to descrip­ graduate course? tions that were not likely to mislead the public, while still allowing adequate descrip­ Mr. TOOTH: A doctor gets his general tion of the type of medical practice being registration with his Bachelor of Medicine carried out. and Bachelor of Surgery degrees. Then he The third point is to give the Medical has a year of conditional regrstration in Board power to vary the periods of time which he must serve in a recognised hos­ required to qualify for registration as a pital. At the end of that time he receives specialist. Section 22 of the Medical Act registration as a medical practitioner. Then requires an applicant for registration as a he must obtain a higher qualification, if it specialist to possess a higher qualification, be available, before he can make application where such is available:-there are certain to be registered as a specialist. In addition, fields in which degrees are not yet available he must have that period of experience that -together with evidence of special skill to I mentioned, namely, three, four, or five show that the applicant has had the neces­ sary practical training in the specially. years, according to the place in which he gained his experience. It presently defines the place and period of time which is considered necessary to give this It is therefore proposed to amend section skill. If experience is gained in a hospital 22 of the Act to provide for the manner the period of time is three years; if in private of gaining experience in each individual practice the period is not less than five years; specialty to be prescribed from time to time and if partly in practice and partly in hos­ by the Governor in Council upon the recom­ pital the period is not less than four years. mendation of the board, such prescription to It is necessary for the experience in the be by Order in Council published in the specially, whether in hospital or in practice, Gazette. to comprise the major portion of the work being carried out throughout that particular As this amendment would involve prepara­ period. tion of recommendations by the Medical Board on matters to be prescribed by the There are certain specialties where these Governor in Council by Order in Council, conditions relative to experience cannot be and as such recommendations cannot be con­ fulfilled. For example, a specialist in public health cannot gain the experience necessary sidered until these amendments are made, in a hospital, because public health is not a the provisions of this particular section will matter dealt with in a hospital, nor can not come into operation until a date to be a doctor practising in a hospital obtain a fixed by the Governor in Council. It is in full-time position as a dermatologist, because clause 2 of the Bill, as hon. members will there is not sufficient work of that nature see when it is printed. Medical Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1945

The last principle deals with the registra­ Mr. Sherrington: Is there reciprocity tion of distinguished overseas doctors who overseas for Australian doctors? visit Queensland at the invitation of colleges, hospitals, or the university. It arises because Mr. TOOTH: In certain areas, yes. Their from time to time various organisations in certificates have to be viewed and checked. the State invited distinguished overseas guests Reciprocity applies in the countries I have to Queensland for the purpose of research or mentioned. teaching. For example, Dr. H. W. Clatworthy, Mr. Duggan: Has any effort been made who is a distinguished American surgeon, by the appropriate authorities to extend the was invited by the Royal Australasian College areas in which reciprocal arrangements of Surgeons to carry out a teaching pro­ operate? gramme at the Brisbane Children's Hospital. Dr. C. R. Stephen, of Canada, an anaes­ Mr. TOOTH: I must confess that I cannot answer that question, but I shall make some thetist, was invited by the Australian Society inquiries. of Anaesthetists to lecture and demonstrate at the Brisbane Children's Hospital and the Other provisions include an amendment of Mater Misericordiae Children's Hospital. Dr. section 47(c) of the principal Act, which H. N. Harkins, of America, was invited to prohibits a person other than a medical prac­ Queensland as the Edwin Tooth Guest Pro­ titioner from displaying various types of fessor in Surgery for 1965, whilst the Aus­ medical equipment such as sphygmomano­ tralian Orthopaedic Association invited Dr. meters, stethoscopes, hypodermic syringes, and X-ray apparatus. The proposed amend­ R. B. Salter, of Canada, for the purpose of ment will permit a person other than a demonstrating orthopaedic surgery at the medical practitioner to display X-ray appa­ three teaching hospitals. I remember about ratus provided he is a person who is entitled a year ago Professor Kliegermann, who is to use same under the Radioactive Substances an expert in the field of cancer from Yale Act of 1958, or any amendments thereof. University, was out here and spent some time at the Radium Institute. If my memory It is also proposed to extend the period for serves me right, I think he went as far north recovery of penalties laid down in section 76 of the principal Act from six months to 12 as Townsville. months after t:he commission of an offence. These gentlemen come here by invitation This is in conformity with the Justices Act, from time to time. No difficulty is experi­ and the amendment is really of a machinery enced in registering them when they possess nature. degrees of universities of the United Kingdom, Various penalties contained in the Act are South Africa, New Zealand, or the other being increased in conformity with present­ States of Australia, because these degrees day monetary values, and provision is made, are recognised by the Medical Board of as I mentioned at the outset, for a change Queensland. If, however, a visitor comes from £.s.d. currency to decimal currency. from a country whose degrees are not recog­ nised by the board, it is necessary to obtain I commend the Bill to the Committee. the approval of the Governor in Council to carry out research or teaching before he Mr. DAVIES (Maryborough) (8.51 p.m.): can be registered. If his demonstrations The Committee must have found the involve surgery, it is vital that he be properly Minister's introductory remarks very registered for his own protection. interesting. His reference to the trans­ planting of organs makes one wonder how Often the visitor arrives at short notice, much research work has been done in the and the necessity to have the application surgical sphere of medicine. lodged with the board and the approval by the Governor in Council prior to engaging Personally, I cannot see anything in the in teaching or demonstrating has caused Bill with which the Opposition is likely to embarrassing delays and difficulties. This disagree seriously, but hon. members on this section of the Act is being amended to side of the Chamber will consider it in detail allow the board to give the necessary when it is printed. approval for research work or teaching so I thought that the Minister might have that the visitor can be registered for a taken the opportunity in this Bill-possibly limited period. he will do so in the Bill to amend the Health Act-to deal with the use of X-ray equip­ In addition, the provisions of subsection 2 ment. At the end of his introductory speech of section 20 of the principal Act have been he dealt with the display of certain medical rephrased to provide for the termination of equipment, including X-ray equipment, and limited registration on a person's ceasing to he mentioned the right to use X-rays. Some engage in the duties for which he came to time ago a Bill was brought down to amend Queensland, as the section as it stands at the Health Act by prohibiting the use of present does not make definite provision for X-ray equipment by chiropractors. I thought termination. There is some doubt whether the Minister might have considered permitting medical men registered for this special pur­ chiropractors who prove that they have the pose remain for ever registered. necessary knowledge and e:xcperience-- 64 1946 Medical Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. to be transplated was removed. It was a Campbell): Order! The Bill does not deal small part indeed but, as a matter of fact with chiropractors, and the Minister made my part in the case was recorded in the only limited reference to the use of X-ray Journal of the Australian Medical Associa- equipment. tion some two years afterwards. As hon. members probably know Dr. Mr. DAVIES: I intend making only passing Peter English has done quite a number of reference to it, Mr. Campbell. If a person transplantations since then and has since proves to the Medical Board that he has the 1 d necessary ability, knowledge, and experience, established the first eye bank in Queens an he should be permitted to use X-ray equip- at the Mater Hospital. I mention that in ment. Many medical men are not very good passing because it is a matter of interest to at reading X-rays, and a number of chiro- me. practors who have experience in that field The matter of specialisation which the would put many medical men to shame. Minister mentioned and the malpractices he said were associated with it deserve the In conjunction with that, I hoped the closest attention of the Government and the Minister might give consideration to intro- Parliament. There are certain dangers in ducing a Bill that was planned last year specialisation that the Government has to to establish a board to deal with the watch closely. Specialisation should be registration of qualified chiropractors in reviewed quite frequently because there is Queensland. However, it is quite evident, Mr. a tendency on the part of some doctors to Campbell, that you are not going to allow me exploit patients. I do not think registration to develop my argument along those lines, so as a specialist should be lightly conferred I will leave it at that. on anyone, whether he be a dentist, a doctor, Mr. Hanlon: 'lt is important that nobody or anyone else who seeks special designation should be allowed to practise anything unless in any profession. he is properly qualified. Also as a result of specialisation I think Mr. DAVIES: Yes. A number of people there is a tendency on the part of many who call themselves chiropractors but who general practitioners to pass over to special- ---have--n0-qualificati0risare-now--practising ---ists -too-much- -of-their -responsi bility;--and;- in the State. because of the availability of various special­ ists, there is a tendency amongst general The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! practitioners to neglect to do any post- The Bill does not deal with chiropractors. graduate study. I think it is most essential I ask the hon. member to confine his remarks for any G.P. to do post-graduate courses to the proposed Bill. because the time will, or should, come when he will be in a far-flung part of the State Mr. DAVIES: I wished to ask whether the and will need a great deal more knowledge Minister had such a Bill in mind and whether than he will ordinarily gain as a general he had to withdraw it because of pressure practitioner without post-graduate study. from the Australian Medical Association. Many doctors when they go out to a country Probably it was for that reason that he centre after completing their period in a wanted to obtain further information in this hospital are not really prepared to meet all regard. We look forward to receiving the the emergencies that might arise. Too many Bill and studying it. It appears from the general practitioners are inclined to neglect amendments that have been mentioned and post-graduate courses because they think the other points I have just mentioned that the there will always be many specialists in Opposition will approve of the Bill. various fields of medicine to whom they can Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) ( . p.m.): I refer their patients. They refer patients to 8 55 specialists for treatment because they them- think this is quite a good Bill. It is in selves have not kept up with developments keeping with the times and developments in in their profession. medicine. The Minister referred to trans- ference of organs from deceased persons to Medical clinics are becoming quite common living persons who have defects in such in the city and suburbs. I feel that in organs. I was very interested in his early these centres a certain amount of exploitation remarks about corneal transplantations, as of the patient takes place. There might they are called. In fact, I was associated be five or six doctors in a clinic. A patient with the first corneal transplantation in sees one doctor who tries to diagnose his Queensland, done towards the end of 1944 complaint. If he is not too sure about by Dr. Peter English at the Holland Park what ails the patient he will not go to the Military Hospital, hence my particular inter- extra trouble that might lead to a correct est in his remarks. The operation was per- diagnosis; instead he says to his nurse, "Ring formed on a patient from New Guinea. Dr. So-and-so in the next suite and make an appointment for Mr. Brown". Dr. My part in the particular operation was So-and-so might be an E. N. and T. man. very small. I was associated with it because, When Mr. Brown sees Dr. So-and-so he at that time, I was a dental technician at might suggest that the patient go to the the Holland Park hospital and had to pro- next suite to have an X-ray examination. vide the plastic receptacle of the exact size It is a matter of quid pro quo. Treatment to hold the eye from the deceased person at these clinics is costing the average person from which the small segment of the cornea more for his medical treatment than it should. Medical Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1947

The doctors in the clinic depend to a great That raises the point that the true extent on the work being spread around. specialist is a man who, throughout his Such clinics are not set up at low cost course, has evinced a predilection for some and only a certain number of patients would particular field in medicine and has shown be available to any suburban clinic. I might himself to be, if not brilliant, at least particu­ be wrong in what I am saying but these larly efficient in that field. He would be a are things that suggest themselves when you true specialist and I do not think we should hear about what is going on in some places. have any qualms about him. Not many years ago when a person saw his general practitioner he could be reason­ Certain men who have been general prac­ ably sure that the doctor could and would titioners for some time and who have just treat him until he was cured of his complaint. failed to make the grade, feel that they are But with the setting-up of these clinics by slipping and see the possibility of doing a a number of doctors it seems that the patients post-graduate course in some field to estab­ are shared, so that everybody gets his "cut". lish themselves as specialists. That may be in the interests of the public. If they con­ Mr. Bennett: In addition they have shares centrate on one field they may be able to in the day-and-night chemists. treat the patient correctly. If they cover many fields, and handle none of them well, Mr. MELLOY: That is true. Shortly after they are a menace to the people. a clinic is set up it is found that a day-and­ night chemist is established in the area. The Minister referred to a case of a medical centre for women. There is a ten­ The doctors in these clinics are not always dency for certain doctors, although not specialists, but there always seems to be the registered as specialists, to concentrate on need for further consultations. One doctor certain fields in medicine and in order to get refers a patient to another doctor not patients more or less set themselves up as necessarily because the other doctor is a specialists. I know that happens in specialist in any field, but because he cannot put his finger on the cause of the patient's dentistry. Dentists set themselves up as condition and brings in his mate next door specialists in orthodontics and prosthodontics. and lets him have a look over the patient. I would not go to any of those specialists. In this way the patient can get the run-around I am speaking about dentists because I know with three or four doctors and ends up paying some of the men who have set themselves about 20 guineas instead of six. These up as specialists in certain fields. doctors are more or less financially dependent All in all, the Bill is a step in the right on each other. It is a case of "You send Brown to me and I will send Jones to you." direction. I hope it will provide a certain I do not think it is a very desirable state amount of protection for the public, and of affairs. At these clinics you just cannot ensure that those who claim to be specialists go along and have your sore throat treated are in fact specialists so that we will not by one general practitioner. With advances have any quackery of any kind in the medical in medical science and discovery of diseases profession. I do not know the exact terms of which we had no knowledge years ago, of the Bill, but we will see them in due we must find out if any of these diseases course. I shall leave any further comment or complaints are present in our bodies and until I see the Bill. doctors refer us to other doctors to make sure we are not suffering from any such Mr. SHERRINGTON (Salisbury) (9.10 diseases. p.m.): Like previous Opposition speakers, and like every right-thinking person, I com­ I believe that a certain amount of special­ mend any steps that will lead to greater ising is necessary to encourage research. efficiency in the administration of the medical The general practitioner has little oppor­ profession. The Minister dealt with corneal tunity to engage in it. Doctors specialising grafts and said that science had advanced in certain fields of medicine have a tendency, to the stage where we could expect success­ or an inclination, to undertake research in the ful kidney transplants. That indicates that field in which they are specialising. On this a tremendous amount of research is being ground specialists are ~esir~ble but we. n:ust conducted behind the scenes without the strictly control the registratiOn of specml!sts. knowledge of the general public, and the For that reason I think this a good Bill. It tremendous advances that are being made in provides that a doctor must spend three medicine. Very often those responsible for years in a hospital and five years in outside these achievements are unsung heroes. private practice. In that period he has to show that he has concentrated to a large Some time ago I was speaking to a doctor extent in the particular field in which he is friend of mine and said to him that many to specialise. That is a good idea, and I doctors are often said to be mercenary. He think it will eliminate some of the abuses. replied that if that were so the inventors A man who has to go to this trouble will of many of the instruments in use today­ not lend himself to entering into arrange­ and many of them were medical practitioners ments with other doctors. If he is properly -would have taken out patent rights and qualified he will set himself up as a bona­ made a considerable amount from their inven­ fide specialist, not as a next-door specialist tions. He said that in a great number of for the benefit of a group of doctors. instances these highly technical instruments 1948 Medical Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill were the brain child of a doctor whose only I think all hon. members will agree with reward for developing such an instrument, the provision to ensure t'hat no medical was that it was named after him. practitioner uses a title that conveys other than the true nature of his qualilfiootions. The The Minister said that there is still a Minister referred to the "Mediool Centre for great chance of failure with kidney trans­ Women." It seemls ~hat 'today the medical plants, but that corrective treatment can be profession is leaning towards taking complete administered by the use of expensive drugs medical services to the suburbs by the which the patient must take for the rest establishment of medicaJ. clinics. Usually of his life. In this connection I refer to suburban medical clinks contain a couple of the pharmaceutical benefits schedule, which general practitioners, and perhaps a I feel is wrongly used because it does not gynaeoologist and obstetrician. The use of provide for enough life-saving drugs that a name such as "Medkal Centre for Women" are too expensive for most sufferers. It was cou~d confuse the public on the real value of brought home forcibly to me that we have a medicaJl clinic. I think possibly one of the on the list 800 items that can be bought best advances in medidne has been the for 50c-in many cases there is a saving growth of suburban medical centres staffed of only a few cents-to the exclusion of by medical men spocialising in various fields, many life-saving drugs. The Minister which makes it relativ·eil.y easy to obtain mentioned that a person who was not for­ treatment locally. Not so long ago general tunate enough to have a successful kidney practitioners had their surgeries in the suburbs transplant must use these expensive drugs. and specialists were on Wickham Terrrace, I know of one case-I am still correspond­ like people in an ivory tower. The trend ing with the Federal Minister for Health towards medical clinics in the suburbs is in this regard-of angina pectoris in which very good, and, if there is any move to the drug segontin was prescribed. It is very "cash in" on it by the use of such names as expensive. It costs $10 for 100 tablets and "Me'dical Centre for Women", that practice the prescribed dose is three tablets a day, so should be stoppeld. it costs about $2.10 a week. The patient had to take other drugs as well, but segontin Although, Mr. Campbell, you have ru:led was the main treatment for his complaint. that I cannot deal with pharmaceutical bene­ A person suffering from this ailment would fits, I think you may give me a little latitude be an invalid pensioner, and, for this reason, to refer to a matter that is rather troublesome the absence of the required drug from the to sufferers from emphysema. This is a free list places a tremendous financial burden disea:se of the lungs, and in its acute form on him. After all, the drug is needed basic­ oxygen is required by the patient. It is ally to keep him alive. strange that a supply of oxygen is made ava:ilable to returned servicemen under any After a period it was found that whilst conditions, and to patients in hospital segontin had been ·effective in the first instance, it was more or Iess losing its suffering from this complaint. But if a efficiency in his treatment, a:nd he was con­ patient chooses to remain at home because s-equently put onto a .course of inderal, whk:h he is reasonably healthy otherwise and does is fa:r more expensive than segontin. The not wish to become a charge on the hospital burden on this pa:tient was thus even greater, service of the State, he does not qualify for because he could not work and was of free oxygen. The Minister for Health could necessity an invalid pensioner. These life­ well make representations to the Common­ saving drugs are required solely because of wealth authorities on that point. the condition of the patient, which precludes him from working, and if they are not on Mr. HANLON (Baroona) (9.21 p.m.): As the pharmaceutical benefits list its whole other hon. members have said, I think it is purpose is being defeated, especially when pleasing that the stage has been reached in such things as cascara and bicarbonate of the treatment of kidney disease and other soda remain on it. diseases when it is necessary to bring in a Bill to cover the transplanting of organs. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. The Minister said that the introduction of Campbell): Order! The Bill does not deal with pharmaceutical benefits. I have given the Bill did not indicate that these things the hon. member latitude to make his point would take place immediately. However, it and relate hi's ar;gument to the comments of indicates that Queensland is keeping up to the Minister, and I now ask him to return to date in its hospitals, and hon. members are the principles of t'he Bill. aware that some members of the medical profession in Queensland, and particularly in Mr. SHERRINGTON: I have been leading Brisbane, have carried out research and led up to that poin't. The Minister did say ~hat the way in their particular fields. As I if ~idney transplants were not entirety mentioned by interjection, the late Alderman successful, the drugs neeldeld 'were extremely Buchan gave his eyes to the eye-bank, and eXpensive. I felt that in the public interest the Bill will make clear the position of it should be known that, where expensive people who are considering making similar drugs are concerned, there is a great need for donations of organs for the welfare of their re-thinking on pharmaceutical benefits. fellow-men. Medical Acts [24 NOVEMBER] Amendment Bill 1949

This is the age of nomenclatures. No should not overlook the fact that we have to matter what work a person does, he likes view these matters from the point of view of to have a particular title outside the broad reasonable conditions of work. In this regard, description of his occupation. People in the I should say that these clinics have possibly medical profession should not be allowed to provided a better rostering of work and ser­ assume specialist titles merely for the sake of vice than would have been the case when the title or in an endeavour to secure an practitioners worked individually. Wh

am sure he will feel that there is a very council provided for the equitable repre­ complete range of drugs. There are differ­ sentation of cane-growers in the State in the ences of opinion on this matter in the medical light of the number of growers, the number profession. Of course, that is merely an mill areas, the sugar-cane produced, and ~;o indication of the continual ebb and flow of on, in particular areas or districts. It has thought and discussion which makes this a been my policy and the policy of the Govern­ very live and vigorous discipline. ment that in matters of this nature every The supplying of oxygen has already been opportunity should be given to the industry considered on two occasions-! think I can itself to bring forward a solution acceptable say this without breaching a confidence-at to the industry, and that Government inter­ conferences of State Health Ministers, and vention or direction in the matter should representations have been made to the Com­ not take place until these avenues had been monwealth about it. I think it is also fair to fully exploited. say that a wide opinion is held amongst My predecessor in office, the late Hon. 0. medical men that a patient requiring oxygen 0. Madsen, arranged during his term of of5ce should be under medical supervision and care for the growers to set up their own com­ when he is using it. I know that is not mittee to examine this matter under an always done, but that is the view strongly independent chairman. For this purpose, he held by quite a number of members of the arranged for the services of Mr. E. E. J. profession. Pearce, Stipendiary Magistrate, to be made The hon. member for Baroona also made available. commendatory remarks about research work Mr. Bennett: His correct title is Senior in Queensland. It has been my privilege Stipendiary Magistrate. ever since being Minister for Health to take at least some slight interest in what is going Mr. ROW: I am sorry. on. Many of these workers are indeed doing This committee reflected the almost equal wonderful work without giving thought to division of industry opinion as to whether personal kudos or aggrandisement. or not a change in the membership of the Motion (Mr. Tooth) agreed to. council was warranted. Motions to change the membership of the council had been Resolution reported. successful at some annual conferences and FIRST READING unsuccessful at others. This was the position when the Government referred the matter to Bill presented and, on motion of a committee of inquiry under the chairman­ Mr. Tooth, read a first time. ship of Mr. J. A. Jones, secretary of the Council of Agriculture, a man highly experi·· PRIMARY PRODUCERS' ORGANISATION enced in primary producer organisation. At AND MARKETING ACTS AMENDMENT present there are 12 districts, each electing BILL one member to the council with the Mackay district having an additional member. INITIATION IN COMMITTEE (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, The committee of inquiry considered that Greenslopes, in the chair) on the geographical spread of the industry, and having regard to the industry content of Hon• .J. A. ROW (Hinchinbrook-Minister the various areas where cane is grown, there for Primary Industries) (9.42 p.m.): I move- should be seven districts only, each of which "That a Bill be introduced to amend the should appoint two members to the council, Primary Producers' Organisation and but with Mackay retaining its extra member Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1965, in certain as it has a considerably greater industry particulars." content than any of the other districts and is not conveniently divisible into smaller The Bill that I present to the Committee is districts. In short, the re-grouping of districts a small one. It makes provision for an and the representation recommended by the alteration in the constitution of the Queens­ committee of inquiry involved an additional land Cane Growers' Council by an amend­ council member for each of the Burdekin and ment of section 30 of the Primary Producers' Herbert River districts. Organisation and Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1965. This section provides for the estab­ The committee stressed that one of the lishment of a mill suppliers' committee for important factors to be weighed was the each sugar-mill ~~ea, district executive value to be gained, or otherwise, from the committees compnsmg representatives of retention of the existing local organisation; mill-area groups, and the Queensland Cane that is, at mill suppliers' committee or district Growers' Council as the State body, com­ executive level. The inquiry committee's prised of representatives from each district. recommendations and views were given very In addition, representatives of the 31 mill careful consideration. It was agreed that suppliers' committees meet at a conference there was need for a change in the member­ annually to discuss and debate matters of ship of !!he council, but that there were common interest. advantages in not disrupting the local organisations built up over the years in the Hon. members will be aware of questions established districts. Achieving this end raised in this Chamber from time to ~ime as within the framework of the committee's to whether the present membership of the proposals entailed an additional member for 1952 Primary Producers' Organisation [ASSEMBLY] and Marketing, &c., Bill

the Mackay and Bundaberg districts above only one representative when areas such as those recommended by the inquiry com­ Herbert River, Burdekin and Bundaberg have mittee. It is proposed to adopt this basis. two representatives. It may be because of This will mean that there will be no change the quantity of cane grown, the number of in the established districts, and that Mossman, growers, the size of the area, or the possibility Cairns, Innisfail, Tully, Proserpine, Isis, of future expansion. There must be some Maryborough and Southern Districts will basis on which the Government has proposed each have one member; Bundaberg, Burdekin a change in representation. and Herbert River districts will each have two I do not mind admitting that I am learning members; and the Mackay district will have as I go along, and in looking through the three members, making a total of 17. The records I have discovered what a wonderful legislation as it now stands provides for the background of organisation the sugar industry appointment of one member to the council has. As the Minister mentioned, a mill by each of the 12 district executives, and suppliers' committee is elected by the growers the appointment of an additional member for each of the 31 sugar-mill areas. A district by the Mackay district executive. The Bill cane-growers' executive for each of the 12 provides for the appointment of not more districts into which the sugar-mill areas are than one member to the council by each grouped is elected by growers supplying cane district executive unless otherwise authorised to the mills in the districts concerned. The by Order in Council, which may prescribe Queensland Cane Growers' Council is the the appointment of either two or three mem­ State body, and the annual sugar industry bers in respect of an executive. conference is composed of one representative I commend the Bill to the Committee. from each mill suppliers' committee. Each of those bodies has a very important job to Mr. WALUS-SMITH (Tablelands) (9.48 do, and the industry has many problems to p.m.): When introducing the Bill the Minister overcome at present. I hope, therefore, that said it was a relatively short one. When the proposed Bill will strengthen the present we look at the reason for it, however, we organisation. find that it has quite a long history. What it Members of the Opposition are in agree­ really concerns is the lack of agreement ment with the aims of the Bill but are in between the Government, the growers, and some doubt as to whether other districts the various committees of inquiry that have could put forward a case for increased repre­ been set up. I therefore think that it is sentation. I shall reserve further comment quite an important Bill because one wonders till the Bill is printed, and I hope it will be whether it will be satisfactory to all cane­ growers in Queensland. accepted by all sugar-growers in Queensland. The Minister referred to such things as the Mr. NEWBERY (Mirani) (9.52 p.m.): The geographical situation of the various areas, proposed Bill seeks to amend one subsection the quantity of cane produced, and the of the Primary Producers' Organisation and number of growers. We find that the inquiry Marketing Act, and I support it because it set up in 1965 has been completely dis­ provides a more equitable distribution of regarded. There may be reasons for that, voting power to a very important section of and perhaps the Minister will give them in his the sugar industry-the cane-growers who reply. He mentioned Mr. J. A. Jones, a provide the basic material for the production knowledgeable man prominent in the of sugar. industry, who was chairman of that com­ mittee, yet when its recommendation was to There are 12 cane-growing districts within alter the number of districts from seven the 31 sugar-mill areas, and one could go on to six and provide two representatives from for years endeavouring to determine whether each district and three from Mackay, making or not the districts or the sugar-mill areas a total of 13, this was disregarded by the should be the factor in deciding what actually Government. represents equality in voting power and in the making of decisions in this section of Mr. Row: Fifteen, they recommended. the industry. For instance, districts and sugar-mill areas could be regrouped in Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH: The Minister says accordance with locality, number of growers, it was 15. That will be the new number. actual sugar production, production capacity, Mr. Row: It will be 17 now. and so forth. Such factors could be argued in any industry as widespread as the sugar Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH: As the findings of industry, with its ever-changing fortunes. the committee have been disregarded by the But as I pointed out in my speech on Government, I and many others are the motion for the adoption of the Address­ wondering if all the growers in the whole 31 in-Reply last year, there was an urgent need areas of Queensland are completely in to reach a solution immediately to at least agreement with the Government's decision. enable the Burdekin, Mackay and Bundaberg I am interested to know whether there is districts to have a greater say in the affairs a case for increased representation for some of the cane-growing section of the sugar areas, particularly Cairns and Innisfail. The industry. The Bill now before the Com­ committee of inquiry may have given reasons mittee does just that and it is being introduced for the way in which it allotted members. because the Act limited district representa­ Perhaps the Minister can tell the Committee tion to only two members. Now, of why areas such as Cairns and Innisfail have course, it is proposed to lift the number to Primary Producers' Organisation [24 NoVEMBER] and Marketing, &c., Bill 1953 three to enable the appointment of three miU area:s, those three districts hacve only representatives on the Queensland Cane 41·2 per cent of voting power on the State Growers Council from the Mackay district council. instead of two as at present. Previously the aggregate of these three The reasons for the dissatisfaction amongst areas on the State council was only 32 per the majority of mill areas, particularly those cent., so at least we are gaining some ground within the Mackay, Burdekin and Bundaberg and getting closer to equitable representation. districts, are that at the present time the I doubt if there ecver has been a period in council comprises 13 members and of this sugar-industry history when there was greater number 9 represent 15 mill areas and the need for a close study of the structure of four members from Mackay, Burdekin and the industry. Bundaberg districts represent 16 mill areas. We would be only fooling ourselves if That is the position today. we believed there will be no further droughts, or depressed overseas prices, or such other It can be readily seen that the nine members problems as confront the industry today, representing a minority of mill areas can and we would be truly foolish if we have easily outvote the four members representing not learnt a lesson which should show us the majority of mill areas. The actual voting the way to substantially avoid, in the future, power on the Queensland Cane Growers' such a calamity as the one in which so Council is 2 · 2 per cent. for each of the many of our farmers are now involved. Thi-s seven mills in the Mackay district, 1 · 93 per refers not only to the new growers but also cent. for each of the four mills in the to many growers already established. It has B urdekin district, 1 ·54 per cent. in each of the snowballing effect of bringing trouble to the five mill areas in the Bundaberg district. businessmen, workers, and, in fact, to almost Of course, the percentage varies for each everyone associated with the sugar industry. mill area in Queensland but the maximum Many of our new growers are in a des­ voting power for a mill area is 7 · 7 per cent. perate plight as they have had no opportun­ for each of the districts which have only ity to establish free assets or cash liquidity. one mill area. The problem with many established growers With the increased representation from is that they have taken additional cane two members to three from the Mackay assignment, and its development has con­ district will flow a second representative from sumed their cash liquidity. An important the Herbert River, Burdekin and Bundaberg factor is the cost of fertiliser to maintain districts, thereby increasing the membership an economic acre-tonnage. We hacve had from 13 to 17. Whereas previously the very great relief in this direction by way of three districts of Mackay, Burdekin and subsidies on nitrogenous fertilisers. Bundaberg, which produce more than half Fertiliser, of course, is not the only need; the Queensland sugar-cane and contribute growers have many other expenses in the more than half the revenue required by the conduct of their farms and in living. The council, had only four representatives on businessman has already been called upon to a council of 13, the amendment now proposed help, but he, too, has a limit to his resources. will give those three districts a representation The employment of man-power is, or may of seven members in a council of 17. This, be, restricted, and here we find trouble for in my opinion, is still not a fair equity, but the farm worker. We expect that there it is a tremendous improvement. could be more unemployment in the indus­ I agree entirely that the existing local try if the position does not improve in the organisations such as the mill suppliers' near future. That is why the structure of committee and the district executive should the sugar industry must come under the not be disturbed as they live and work closest scrutiny to avoid, or at least minim­ very closely in the industry and are a vital ise, in the future a repetition of the exist­ part of the industry organisation. They are ing problems. Those best able to conduct conducted by men actively engaged in the this scrutiny are the men in the industry. industry. From these local organisations Equitable representation at State council should flow details of the practical needs level and the maintenance of the equality of the industry and the advice so necessary which now exists at area or cane-grower to its conduct. executive level seems to me to be the proper However, let me point out to hon. members, arrangement. Therefore, I give this Bill my just in case they may be suspicious that fullest support. an unreasonable benefit is being extended Hon. J. A. ROW (Hinchinbrook-Minister to Mackay, Burdekin, Bundaberg and the for Primary Industries) (10.2 p.m.), in reply: Herbert River that all the 31 mill areas I should like to reserve any further com­ have equal voting rights at the annual ments until the second-reading stage, when conferences of the sugar industry in Brisbane, hon. members will have had an opportunity this being equal to a voting strength of to study the Bill. 3 · 22 per cent. from each mill area. There­ fore, the Mackay, Burdekin and Bundaberg Motion (Mr. Row) agreed to. areas, representing as they do 16 of the Resolution reported. State's total of 31 mills, have a total of 51 · 6 per cent. voting power at conferences, FIRST READING whereas under the Bill now before the Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Row, Committee, which deals in districts and not read a first time. 1954 Regulation of Sugar Cane Prices [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

REGULATION OF SUGAR CANE PRICES There is a belief in some circles that the ACTS AMENDMENT BILL maximum economy to be derived from mechanical harvesting will come from very INITIATION IN COMMITTEE large-scale harvesters, and that from an industry cost point of view the smaller (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, individual farm harvester may be a step Greenslopes, in the chair) in the wrong direction. Hon. J. A. ROW (Hinchinbrook-Minister Associated with financial aspects is the for Primary Industries) (10.5 a.m.): I move- question of availability of capital and, too, the capital risk involved in the supply of "That a Bill be introduced to amend the bins, possible relocation of tramlines in the Regulation of Sugar Cane Prices Acts, mill yards, alterations to receiving facilities 1962 to 1965, in certain particulars." and so on by millers and the provision of harvesters individually and as a whole by Hon. members will recall that on two or the growers. The problem is a difficult one three occasions in the present session I have but it is being met in many mill areas by made reference to a proposal to bring co-operation and agreement between millers forward legislation to amend the Regulation and growers. of Sugar Cane Prices Acts with a view to The Bill I now bring before the Committee providing a means of determining questions provides for arbitration by the Central Sugar relating to the supply and transport of Cane Prices Board in those cases where such mechanically harvested chopped-up sugar­ agreement cannot be achieved. The direct cane to the mills. object of the Bill is to give the Central Board jurisdiction to make an order at the Transport of cane is essentially a local request of a cane-grower or a miller with matter between the growers in each mill area respect to the use of chopper-harvesters, that and the miller, and under the legislation as is, as to the supply of bins or the supply it stands at present all matters relating to the of chopped-up cane, on such terms and con­ harvesting, delivery, transport, handling and ditions as the board deems just. Such appli­ crushing of cane can be determined by the cation may be made at any time and an award of a local board. Any such award is order may relate to one or more seasons then subject to appeal to the Central Sugar or be unlimited as to time. Cane Prices Board, whose decision is final. An order, once made, may subsequently However, this procedure, in so far as it be revoked, varied or otherwise modified by applies to questions arising from the supply a further order of the board- and transport of chopped-up cane, is in prac­ (a) At any time, by consent of all tice ineffective. By the time an appeal can parties affected thereby, or, be determined, the season is under way and (b) In respect of a particular season or it is then too late for the miller to provide seasons, upon the application by an affected facilities and, in all probability, for a cane­ party, if such application is made prior grower to purchase a harvester. As each to 31 December preceding that season. award has application only to the season for Failure to comply with an order of the which it is made, the same position can arise board invites a maximum penalty of $200 each year. and, if a continuing offence, an additional penalty of $50 a day. Sugar-cane may be mechanically harvested either by whole-stalk harvester or by chopper So that there will be no conflict of juris­ harvester. The chopper-harvester, which has diction as between rhe award-making powers of the local board with respect to harvesting many advantages, has at least one serious and transpor,t of cane, an'd the powers now disadvantage. It is certain that chopped-up granted to the Ce·ntra:l Board, provision is cane sours more quickly than whole-stalk made in the Bill that where an order of the cane, so that the time lag between harvesting Central Board is in force, vhe local! board and milling is much more critical. Sour will not, to that extent, have any jurisdiction. cane presents milling difficulties, and some Provision is made in the Bill alro for the mills have turned their faces against chopper­ conversion to decimal currency of al'l money harvesters until more is known of this vaLues in the principal Act. Details are problem. contained in a schedule to the Bi'1l. On the growers' side, it is certain that The BHl is a simple one. It does not go chopper-harvesters handle lodged cane beyond granting jurisdiction to the Central efficiently and, in common with other Board to arbinrate in cases of dispute. This mechanical harvesters, reduce harvesting is fu11y in keeping with its prime function costs and also the growers' dependence upon as the sugar industry tribunal. an uncertain labour force. The situation has I commend the Bill to the Committee. been met in some mill areas by a judicious Mr. WALLIS.SMITH (Tablelands) (10.12 blending of chopper and whole-stalk harvest­ p.m.): It seems unusual that two Bills like ing and by adjusting mill shifts to minimise these should come one after the other so late the time chopped-up cane is held. in the evening, but I quite understand that Regulation of Sugar Cane, &c., Bill [25 NoVEMBER] Questions 1955 the Minister is tryifllg to tie up some loose ends in this very important industry. This BiLl will assist to do that. The main reason for this Bill is the intro­ duction of a new method of hacrvesting. I have no doubt that other improvements will follow. The minister said Vhat the main method of harvesting which is causing concern to the growers is the use of the chopper-har.vester. Anybody seeing that harvester at work can ima:gine how much wastage can .be caused by a delay in crushing. The cane produced by a farmer adopting Vhe correct method of farming can become an inferior product in a short space od' time. The authority given to the Centra:! Sugar Cane Prices Board to make an order on the representation of either the grower or the miller, or both, is an effort to get these two parties together to eliminate this annoying delay. Some growers treat it as a personal matter. They might happen to supply the mill towards the week-end or on a day when there is a glut of cane at the mill. If this happens two or three times some growers claim they are being victimised. I am certain that all members of the Committee will agree that this is an excellent Bill that will keep pace with this method of harvesting cane in Queensland. Orders can be revoked or increased with the co-operation of the miller and the grower. That allows latitude, which is necessary in an industry such as this. Because of the weather we experience in some parts of Queensland nobody knows from one day to another how supplies will be affected, and those hon. members who are engaged in this industry know only too well that they cannot predict whether their cane will be cut on time or whether there will be a rush at the last minute and a lay-off at a later stage. This unusual supply to the mill is some­ times the cause of delays, and even unpleas­ antness if a farmer finds that he has been the victim on several occasions. I have nothing further to say on the Bill. I do not want to go into a long eulogy of the wonderful sugar industry, as we have heard that over and over again. I think it is sufficient to get on with the business in the knowledge that the Bill will bring the desired results in favour of growers and millers. Hon. J. A. ROW (Hinchinbrook-Minister for Primary Industries) (10.16 p.m.), in reply: I thank the hon. member for Tablelands for his contribution. I shall deal with it in greater detail at the second-reading stage. Motion (Mr. Row) agreed to. Resolution reported.

FIRST READING Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Row, read a first time. The House adjourned at 10.18 p.m.