[16 Juby, 1912.])4. 443

Nore. Kirwan 'on- S. Cornell iHon. j. W,. Hon. . S. Dod Hun. F. Davls Tumesday, 16th -July,:1912. Hon, J, AT. Drew(Tlr) Papers presentedi...... 443 Qusin;naeptens plctoso releatse 443 Ampendjment thus passed. Add01S.i!1Tn-reply, seventh da~y...... 444 Amendiment (that the words proposed to be inserted be so inserted) put and a The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4.30 division taken, with time following re- p.m., and rend prayers. si t:- Ayes 10 PAPERS PRESENTED. Noes 5 Br the Minister for Works: 1, Papers - re petition of John Maher for compen- Majority for 3-1 cation (order onl motion by Mr. Dwyer). - 2, Amendment of by-laws (schedule 1) of Avs. the Grold Melds Water Supply Administra- Hon. F. Connor rIOlio .M. cIaflY tion. .Non. J. F. Cullen Hon. M1. L. Moss3 Hion. D. C, Qawier lHon. C. A. Plesse Hon. V. Hamnersisy Mon. A. Sanderson QUESTION - INSANE PATIENTS, lion. C. Sommers Hon. ft, G. Jenkins PP UEWAT IONS FORt RELEASE. Ron. W. King-mill Hon, T. H, Wilding Hon, R, J. Lynn Hon. H. P. Colebatch Mr. E. B. JOHNSTON asked the Hon- Hon. C. McKenzie (Totter). orary Minister: 1, Has a petition been Ron. ft. D. McKenzie received from a inunber of patients at the DE9S. hospital for the insane, Claremont, asking- Hon. LT.Cornell Rion, a. Wv.Kirwan that anly inma01te who considers himself Hn. J. E. Dodd Hon. F. Davis (or herself) unlawfully detained in the Hun. J. M. Drew I(Teller)_ institution should he enabled on applica- Amendment thus passed. tion to have his (or her) ease publicl 'y investig-ated byv a judge of the Supreme The PRESIDENT: The question now Court, provided tie applicant shows is, that thme Address-in-reply as amended cause to the Satisfaction of the judge that be agreed to. such inveetigation should be held? 2, Us On motion by Hon. F. Connor, debate it true that patient s in similiar ilnstituitionis adjourned. ini the State of Victoria have (Ile privilege niitionedl 2, In view of the immense House adjourned at 10.28 p.m. importance or this privilege to the on- fortunate persons concerned, is it the iii- PALOS. tention of the Government to grant thme Non. J. D. Connolty Hion. H. G. Ardagh mwLaest of the petitioners? lion. B. C. O'Brien 1 Hon. Wv.Patrick The HONORARY MINISTER (Hon. WV.C. Angivin) replied:. 1, A petitiou has been signed hi' three or fouir patients onl this matter, and several patients hare written to the judges of the Supremte Couti asking for release. The letters have been sent onl in each case. and I le Judges, after making full inquiry.. considered it Uunecessary to w0 any fuzr- ther in) thle matter. N~o attempt has been made by the Luace author01ities to preveut any ease lbeinig fully investigated by the judges. 2. Yes. .3, ProvisionI al1ready exists under Setion 107 of The Lunacy Act. 1903. 444 444[ ASSEMBLY.)

Al t) RESS-1 N-liI11 P stuntt ioiil'auaLthIority t hatl neiiibers, onl Seventh D)ay. thle opposite side cover themselves, xvith. inl a feigned patriotic aip- Debate resumed from tile 110t duly. peal to (lie people of kWestern Mr. TURVEY (Swan): Since thle ad- Australia. And when that clauk is re- vent of the Labour Governmenit some re- moved whiat have we? Nothing, but cant. forms have been effected in this Chamber hamnbug, anid insincerity. Elsctvliere the which 1 v'enture to say mneet with tke ;up- opening of the session wans signialised by jiroval, not only'% of hou. inuher, onl this acrimonious hostility to thie Labour party, s ide of' the IHouse. ad. olso ioail mew- no doubt :1 further part of a tiian of hers sitting- onl thle Oppositioii benchies, n ucioulined to themi by their Iord bunt wijtli thle aIpIrov-al (if (lie peoiple of High Commissioner, Sir- Johnt Forrest. Western Aust ralia. who are advaneinir If so e arly in the session wej find( suceh tvith modern timnes. lThouglh reforms partisanship and such hostility tlispdayed have beent effected, anid 'I cong-ratulate towards thle demcratic measures otlinled youn, iAir, Speaker, onl Your efforts iin his Excellency's, Speechi. we can realise tnhis particulair direct ion, I be- what. hope the Government have duriit- lieve that further retormas still can be thle coming session of having piieil onl effected, and( there is one that I person- thie statute-hook of Western AntiAraliai thle olly, as one who is certainl'Y youngl tin dleinocratice measures whrich theyv have political life, would like Io see effected, been auithorised to pin-e t here by' tile Mnd that is the ciithilinct of the peol ile oif t his State. Is it miuy wonder sp~eeches onl the Address-ini-rell'Y. It may that we find. under suetp ci rc,sa nies. be said, perhaps. that 1 amn somewhat in- lie people of Western Austr-alia tiningi- consistent in advocating thle curitailment to seek justice from thle Federal Legisla- of these speehes, and at thle same time hure, when they find that their efforts in nishig to speak inl connection therewith, this, State are thwarted 1y t he Tory ele- but l would point out that while thle ens- meni that is domn inting elsewhere. andl torn prevails 1 have just as much righIt to is also represented to) a1 onsiderable de- a~vail myself of the opportunity' as any ,,ree 1)y some mneinhbeis sittitigo Opposite? member. Further., I believe there arc In Nect. it hlas beenl said that the receiit miany members sitting Onl (ile Opposition Upper House elections gave the lates.t benches who still intend to speak oni the man11date froml tile people of this State. Address-in-reply; therefore, it is neces- Well, it was the latest mandate certainly; sary for Lmmbers onl this side of the aMandate from- the Liberal League. House also to rise and take ipl thle cud- and it has been used by others. gels onl behalf of the Government. T but I can 011vont Say that the desire to congratulate the leader (if Lte brazeni effrontery of individuals who Opposition onl Ihe commion sense lie wrould make such a statement is exceeded showed ini vithdratving- the second amend- Only by their asinine siti pidity and their int to the Addi-ess-in-reply after lie had emlaqtion of Ananias. The member for s;een thle hopeless bungle into which he Beverley, in the course of his remarks. had led] his party.v But it certainty seemns waxed warmi at thle very fact that the to nie tHint there is a concerted plan of work~ers in the rural industries had de- act ion here mid elsewhere in connection cided to organise and form a uinion. He with the aiidmneun moved to the Ad- fell into the trap into whichi T think mainy dres-i-el ty eertai iilv a mlost puerile of the farmers of Western Australia also MA futtile attack, buit neverthe-less it have fallen. He evidently assumed that s7eems as thonugh it was a premeditatfed thle logr preparedI by the rural wvorkers' tdal (IF action. not to defeat the Got-eril- union was already an award of thle court. ,ine)i hutt eertainly to harass them in I maintain that thle wvorkers in a itt branchl evr 'iv possible manner. Therefore, it is neeessaryv that members onl this side of of industry have a right to prepare a Ion' the House shouild take thle fullest OPPiol- and cite a case before the Arbitration tiinitv inl tearing aside the cloak of eon- Court. and then to produce evidence to [16 Jim;, 1912.] 4454 show that our demands are just and department is established, keep a ruase~nabic. The farmers and producers a Watchful eye over the export of fruit have just the same opportunity to bring from this State, so tlhat the high reputa- evidence to prove that the demands are tion that Western A ustralian fruit has exorbitant andl unreasonable, and the Su- already obtained in the London and Con- preme Court judge has to decide. Surely tinontal markers may be maintained, I that is only just, and yet we find some imar he miet with the reply that private prodeiccrs saying that the workers in that enterprise has been able to do this. I particular branch of industry hare no ag-rea that that is so, but the method's righIt to organise. If I remember rightly, which have suffeed in the past will not the member for Bleverley was recently be adequate when we consider the expan- taking- a very active part in the formation sion of the horticultural industry which is of a, union in the Beverley district, and I taking place. We must rem-ember also believe hie had associated with him in his that a very small quantity of fruit has attempt to form that association or union, been exported in past years compared a lpromlinent official of the Liberal League, With whaIt is likely to take place in the and T many say lie was an individual whose near future, especially when we take into sgnatuire appeared at the end. of many considecration the irapid increase that is cheqncs circulated in my electorate during taking place in the industry, and I yen- the campaign which I fought. I repeat tulre to say that Western Australia will that there can be no sound argument before long outstrip all other States of advanced as to why the workers in the the Commonwealth in horticulture. We rural industries should not organise and have in various parts of this State form a union. I was pleased to note in some of the finest horticultural land, to His Excellency's Speech that it is the in- he found in Australasia, and I might tention of th e Government to establish perhaps say, in any part of the world. State open markets in the metropolitan We are endowed by nature -with a area. So far as horticultural products perfect climate for horticnlture, and are concerned, the establishement of open in proportion to its population, Western markets is urgently required, and I desire Australia stands second in importance to impress upon the Minister for Agricul- amongst Australian States in fruit tture, who, I believe, wilt have charge of production, being excelled in this respect that branch, the necessity of considering by Tasmania only, and there is every indi- the desirability, when h e is selecting a cation that in a very short time we shalt site. of securing one that will give ample hold pride of lplace. I would urge tile accommodation, and also make ample Government to give ear-nest attention to provision for cold storage and for a rail- this fast-expanding industry, anti partielL- we v sidinge into the market so that it larlv is assistance required of the Gov- would facilitate the handling of the pro- erment in fruit-growing centres i pro- duce or fruit and also lessen the handling viding- better roads for the orchardists. generally to a considerable degrTee. So 1oii. members wvill understand that the far as fruit is concerned T know that roads which igh-lt be considered pas-Lbhi these are absolute essentials in connec- gzood in an agricultuiral district are of tion with any open market, and further I little or no usre in a fruit-growing centre, believe when in operation, and beeanse where you might cart wheat and the sooner the better, the State chaff and other products of the farm over open markets will mean better the road without inJury to those products, conditions for the fruit-growers to place it is quite impossible to cart products of their produce on that market, and thusg the orchard over similar roads where there the producer, the consumer and the mer- may be considerable jolting. This would chants interested in the trade will bene- even render it impossible to bring the fit in connection with the export fruit to the local market in a good c ondi- of fruit. I trust that the Govern- tion, let alone take it to the railway for ment will, until a, State export transit to the London and Continental 446 446ASSEMBLY.] markets. In conjunction with the export wood in small cabinet work, but be this trade it might interest members of the as it may the fact remains the use of House to know that during the year just local timbers in the manufacture of fruit ended 1,279 cases of fruit were shipped cases is gaining ground considerably. One from this State to Batavia, 1,000 eases of of our loea] orchard ists. who is also one which were grapes; and to Bombay and of the most practical men in Western Aus- Colombo there were sent 3,474 eases, tralia, recently assured me that hie used mostly grapes, while to Singapore and no other than eases made of the local Sourabaya, 1,997 eases, again chiefly timbers provided he could get a sufficient grapes, were sent. To London during the supply. Before concluding my remarks past twelve months the State exported no in conection with the fruit industry, I fewer than 43,614 cases, and to Hamburg would like to express the hope that every 14,951 cases. The bulk of the fruit sent encouragemient will be given towards as- to the latter jplaces consisted of apples. sisting in the establishment of small fac- Altogether no fewer than 65,205 eases of tories for canning, preserving, and dry- fruit were exported during the twelve ing fruits. During the past twelve months monthis just ended. Not many years ago we imported into this State no less than little or no attention was paid to horti- about £180,000 wvorth of fruits, janms, and culture in Western Australia, and I am jellies, and I hope the time is not far dis- of opinion. that at no distant date this tant when the State instead of being aul State will lead all the other States in this importer in this direction, will be an ex- branch of rural industry as surely as she porter. I desire to commend the work will lead them in that greater branch- that is being dlone by our fruit commis- agriculture. I have p~reviously drawn the sioner, Mr. Nloody, and his staff, and I attention of members of the House to the trust that the Government will rake the suitability of some of our local timbers. earliest opportunity of establishing in con- for the manufacture of fruit cases, and nection with one or more of our State in my advocac 'y of the use of thie timbers farms, experimental orchards for the in this direction I have met with consider- benefit of the fruit growers, and also de- able opposition, and opposition also from vote their attention towards encouraging fruit-growers, but I would ask the Gov'- the establishment of nurseries, because at erment to give the matter a fair trial the present time most of the fruit trees under proper conditions, and if that be planted in Western Australia are imported done I have not the slightest doubt that from the Eastern States. I believe if the our- local timbers will be largely used in Government gave attention to this matter the manufacture of fruit eases, and fur- they could assist considerably. I desire ther I believe that these cases inanufac- to congratulate the Governmnt on their tamed with our local timbers can be sup- decision to create a water supply depart- plied to the growers at about half the ment. This must eventually mean -a cost that cases are obtained for at the considerable saving in the cost of admiini- present time. T was pleased recently to stration, and further it must mean a more note that the suitability of the local tim- efficient department. Reference is made bers was endorsed hy Sir Newton Moore, in His Excellenc 'y's Speech to the wretched who referred to the matter in his report water supply in the metropolitan area. I to the Government in connection wvith believe the Government will take action. fruit exported to England. Sir 'Newton T know that they have already, moved in Moore stated that the fruit carried better the direction of making provision for a in those cases, and further that the Lon- better supp~ly for the metropolis. When don and Continental buyers favoured this scheme is being considered, however. them, It is; not improbable that thie jar- I would impress upon the Governmnent the mali used in these eases has a commercial importance of hesitating before attempt- value in London and on the Continent, ing to draw the metropolitan supply from probably as jarrah is rare in those places, the present Mundaring reservoir. I do not and that it has some value as a veneering doubt, for one moment that at the present [16 JuLy, 1912.3 4474 time there is an ample supply of water places in close proximity to the reservoir there to provide, not only the agricultural and the 30-inch main, though they have areas and goldifields, but also to give the been asking for a water supply for years. metropolitan area a sufficient supply of have been denied it, and I would remind pure water, hut I believe that a still better the Minister that these people wvent supply can be obtained in the Canning through very trying times indeed during- Hills district. There is already a small the past summer, and may I express the reservoir established there, anti my reason hope that before next summer sets in for advocating this is that I believe it these people will be given that water wvould be absurd for the Government to, supply for which they have been, so long shall I say, put all their eggs ini one bas- clamouring. Whilst on the subject of ket, that is, if they depend upon this one wanter supply I would like to urge on the source of supply for the goldfields, the Minister for Works the necessity for the farmers, and] the city, they should remem- abolition of that grossly unfair and in- ber that bigger dams than that at Mun- iquitous charge for meter rent. I believe daring have given 'vay before to-day, and meter rent is abolished in the metropolitan one can imagine what a fearful position area, but not throughout the State, but the this State of ours would be placed in, if, time has arrived when this should be dlone, after the metropolitan area had been con- and I believe the Minister is sympathetic nected with the Mundaring reservoir, any in this connection. But I think it is simply disaster befell that particular reservoir. a case of the Minister looking on the Gold- and left the farmers and the goldfields, fields Water Suppl'y-and rightly so-as who were dependent upon it without a commercial concern, and he, at the pre- water. By the building of another weir sent time, probably cannot see his way to at the suggested site at Canning, there allow this commercial concern to suffer would be provided not only a much greater this loss of revenue, still I believe that by storage of water than we have at the pre- the addition of, say, one penny, or even sent time in the IMundaring catchment less than that, per thousand gallons, the area, but it would also act for a time as a Minister would be more than comp~ensated safeguard. I believe that if a reservoir by the abolition of meter rents. Just one were built at Canning, by linking it with other word in connection with water sup- a line of pipes to the Mundaring reser- ply to which I would like to refer, and voir, with only one additional pumping that is, to the wages staff in the Gold- station it would be possible to connect the fields Water Supply Administration. I Caniiing reservoir with the No. 1 pumping am aware that for some considerable time station at Miundaring, and if at any time there has been discontent among the any disaster by the breakage of valves or wages staff of this department. Whilst a braknge in the wall took place at Wiun- in almost every other department the dlaring.- in a very short time the water workers have been giv'en an advance in could he pumped from the Canning wages to meet the increased cost of reservoir into the dam at the living, I know that there are men in that No. 1 pumping station. If any- particular department who have not re- thing should befall the Canning res- ceived an increase in wages for the past ervoir when the metropolitan area was eight, ten, or twelve years, and I hope dependent upon it for a water supply, the Minister will bear this in mind, and then water could he obtained from Mun- at the earliest opportunity give these men daring. This is a feature I hope the Gov- the increase to which they are entitled. erment wvill take into consideration when I do not wish to go over any of the mat- they are considering the establishment of ters that have already occupied the atten- a reservoir to supply Perth. Incidentally tion of members of this House, but I in speaking of water supply, I would like cannot allow this opportunity to pass to remind the Minister for Works, who without briefly referring to the action of has charge of this Department, that the the Government in connection with the settlers in the hills districts, Parkerville, purchase of steamers, and I venture to Smith's 'Mill, Swan View, and Darlington, sayv undoubtedly the people of Western 448 448[_AS SMBLY1

Australia heartily endorse the Govern- State brickworks, and in this connection ment's action in this direction. I believe one cau fully appreciate the position in the result will mean that in the which the Government find themselves in future the price of meat will be kept at connection with the Workers' Homes a reasonable and fair price. I do not scheme. 'Most members I think are aware intend to go0 into the details in connection of the price of bricks in the marker to- with this, or elaborating in any degree, day and I have not the slightest doubt because this matter has been placed be- that members have interested themselves fore members in a clear and concise man- to suich in extent by ascertaining- what ner by the member for Bunbury. What- has been done in the Eastern State-- in ever hie result may be-and personally 1 this direction. I believe even the member hold no doubt on this score-the present for 'Northam expressed the opinion that Government are not merely promising, this veniture would prove a success. I do they do noble deeds, not dream them all not know whether members in this House day long, like the leader of the Opposi- have any, knowledge of the site of the' tion and his collaborator, the member for proposed works, but as one who has been Northanm, who admitted to the House that over this particular site- the result of his untiring efforts for a Mr. George :It is in the wrong place, number of months, shall I say years, the anyhow. net result of his untiring efforts was a Mr. TIURVEY :Perhaps it is not in letter to the under secretary which bie the lion, member's electorate. read to this Chamber, showing that he Ur. George :That is exactly what I therein hinted at some arrangements about meant. It is four or five miles away. a steamer. Truly the mountain had lab- oured and brought forth a, mouse. That Mr. TURVEY: I believe that in the wais the net result of the hion. member's proposed site we have one of the finest efforts for a considerable number of deposits of shale to be obtained in any years. The Government have only been part of Australia. Already it has been in office for a short time and] the steamers, tested to aLconsiderable extent, and the are here. It is not merely promises. The deeper the tests have gone the quality Government have certainly made promises of the shale has improved. Sample bricks and intend to fulfil them, and are fulfilling have been made with very satisfactory them already. I would advise members results. Of course, the scheme meets with On the oposite side to remove from their considerable opposition from members eyes the scales of jealousy,' and help to opposite because it is a State concern, speed on,. shall 1 say, the chariot of pro- but let me say the State brick works of gress and prosperity, and not to sit still New South Wales have already proved a and sing, "We will all hiang on behind," huge success. They have shown a profit for so surely as they do they will get that of 80 per cent. 1 know there are somne dust in the eyes which was predicted by who xvill say they should not show that the member for Pilbara. It is no use profit, bu~t it is the intention of the Gov- decrying the action of the Government in erinetst to extend these works,. and the this respect like members opposite, who profits that they have been making in the should wake up from their state of leth- past will be utilised in this direction. argy. Let them shake off the shackles of Already they are turning out over 500,000 envy and drop once for all their cry of bricks per week, and it has been proved stinking fish. The smallest actual good conclusively that they are saving- over is much greater than the most magnificent £1 per thousand, and it is admitted that promises- Thle Government, as I told when the extension I have referred to members, have made promises, but have takes place they will then be able to turn fulfilled those promises and done some oit a milion bricks per week, and saving good. Icome nowv to another proposal £1 per thousand on that will show a clear of the Government, another of the State profit for the bricks used in the public trading concerns that is looming on the buildings throughout New South Wales of horizon, and that is the establishment of no less a sum. than £1,000 per week. It [lIP Juts, 1912.]49 449

will show a saving of that to the State partinent may well feel proud of what of New South Wales, and when that is has been done in this direction. Now, I the case wve can fully understand what a believe that every boil. member will be saving it wvill mean to Western Australia, gad when the day comes that we find and] p adieu hily as it is the intention of our primary schools linked uip, not only the Government to proceed with their with the secondary schools, but with the scheme for the dtablishment of Workers' university. I believe that all of uts will Homes. I come now to the important be pleased to expedite in every possible subject of education. I desire to offer manner the time when we shall have free a few brief remarks in connection with State primary education, free State secon- this subject, retaining much for some op- dary eductationi, and at free State univer- portune time. Considerable attention, we sity. In connection with the secondary are told in His Excellency's Speech, has schools, reference has been made in this been given to the important subject of edui- House to one secondary school in the cation. I venture to say that much more State, the High School. Personally, I remains to be done. I do not want to dis- have no fanlt to find with the High parage for a moment the good work that School or with its methods, but I canl the Minister for Education has already see no earthly reason why that institution done, but I do wish to say that I believe should be considered as a separate school, the salaries of both teachers and in- if, as 'ye are told, it is a private institu- spectors in our Education Department are tion. If such be the case, then I say by altogether incommensurate with the im- all means let us have it as a State secon- portant work entrusted to their care, and dary school. It is subsidised by the Gov- I hope the Minister for Education will ernment, I understand, to the extent of tackle seriously the problem of agricul- £1,000 per annum, And, if it cannot be tural education, and that every assist- taken over by the State and wade a ance wvill be given to encourage its ex- State secondary school, then I can tension in our schools and also by the see no reason why other secondary schools establishment of agricultural high schools in Western Australia should not also par- at our State farms. The establishment ticipate in the State aid, and receive of these schools at the State farmis will £1,000 per annumn each. Reference has be materially assisted by the Wheat Belt been made in the Speech to certain rail- Commissioner. That gentleman is anl wvay, proposals, but I regret to note that enthusiast in connection with experimen- one important line, one which the Railway tal work in agriculture, And I believe that Advisory Board some time ago furnished his services in the agricultural high a maost favourable report, is evidently- schools to be established at the shall I say, inadvertently-omitted from State farms will be of material benefit the list. I refer to the Armadale-Brook- to the State. The Education Department ton line. A most favourable report, in- of Western Australia may well feel proud deed, was furnished by the board on that of one part of its system. I refer now particular proposal, and I express the to the school saving banks that are hope that, in His Excellency's next Speech, knowvn a~s the penny savings banks. we will see onl the top of the list that most These institutions have been established worthy project. in connection with all schools in order The Premier: The route of the Trans- to encourage thrift amongst the children. continental railway will have to he fixed Already .12,000 children in Western before we canl decide that. Australia are receiving, very early in Mr. TURVEY: I take it, then, the life, every encouragement to be thrifty people may realise that it is not alto- and not to be spendthrifts. The amount gether improbable that the Transcontin- now owned by the scholars through saving ental railway will traverse that route. 'We their pennies is no less a sum than £10,000 are informed in the 'Speech that legisla- which stands to the credit of the school tion will *be introduced for the ameliora- children of Western Australia. The De- tion of our social conditions, And I would 450 [ASSEMBLY.] appeal to lion. members sitting opposite It is desirable to put the animal on the to give all the assistance they possibly open road so that, if it does kick over canl to the Government in this direction. the traces, it cannot do much harm. It They owe a duty to the community to may be that members returning after re- assist the Government in framing laws cess feel an excess of animal spirits, and that are in conformity with the age in perhaps it is as wvell to allow them to h ave, which they live. Many of our industrial the open road, so that t~y can kick up. laws are obsolete; certainly they are not a bit, as thev' appear to to in this Addlress- advancing with the times. There is a in-reply debate. Still. I t .inik it would universal change in society. Mental habits be well if the length of ' the Address-in- are being acquired by the peopie, and the reply* could be reduced somewhat, and education of the masses has caused them thus save some of the time which seems to think for themselves. The workers to tie to be wasted under the present throughout the wvorld are breaking the system. I also desire to congratulate the fetters that have kept them iii bondage members of the Ministry upon the manner for so long, and to-day they are asking in wvhich each and every one of them have for what is their owni. Other who arc adapted themseljes to their wvork and the drones and parasites will be relegated obtained a thorough grasp of the different to receive their due also. In the past, departments under their administration. those w'ho produced the least received the Thle rep lies bY the 2Yii,ters who have most, and those who produced the most so far spoken to the no-confidence received the least. They have been forced motion moved by the leader of the Oppo- to work uinder bad conditions of employ- sition showv that they have, in the short menit, to be poorly housed and poorly fed, time they have been in office, obtained a and wvherever we find those conditions wve good grip of the administration of their find poverty. Wherever poverty exists, departments. I also cannot help feeling disease, vice, and crime generally are a certain amount of sympathy for some rampant. The workers of the world to- lion. members on the Opposition side on day are asking for their own. Now, in account of the position in which they conclusion, I would ask those lion. mem- mne been placed by their leader. As bers opposite who, perhaps, cannot see hon. members are awvare, during recess eye to eye with the whole policy of the that lion. gentleman has been going about Government that, when these democratic the State and addressing great Liberal measures are p~laced before the House for rallies-sometimes I believe lhe has ad- the amelioration of the social conditions dressed an audience to the number of 13 of this State, they will do their best to -pointing out the sins of the Seaddan see that justice is done to that particular Ministry h'ow their administration of the section of the community. Lands flepartment was causing ruin to the State, and howv their lack of financial Mr. SH'LLANY (11enzies) :In rising6 knowledge was also going to place the lo speak onl the Address-in-rely. I desire, State ship in troubled waters. Further, at the outset, to endorse tile remarks of lie wvas also charging the Labour party the mnember for Swan in complinrting with having failed to fulfil the promises you, Mr. Speaker, on the reforms you have made during the elections in October that instituted in, (ihe rmde of proi-cdure they were going to do something. if pos- in this House; more p~articuilarly do I sible, to reduce the cost of living, and endorse the remarks of that lion. member more particularly the price of meat. But in regrard to the necessit y for some cur- immediately it is announced by the Min- taiment of the length of this Address-in- istry that they have taken one step, and reply. I. like the member for Swan, am ,a most decisive step, in the purchase of new to political life, and the onl'y reason I can see to justify this practice is that steamers to puat on the north-west trade, members arc treated in the same manner we find the leader of the Opposition as a horse that has been out of harness making a eomplete change of front, and and comes back to work in good spirits. saying that the action of the Government [16 JULY, 1912.]41 451 is unconstitutional. After leading his on his own side when they realised that party and a section of the public to be- the great charge to be burled against the lieve that, wvhen the House met, he would' present Administration was all over, and be able to make such charges against the was so painfully weak. In regard to the Administration at present in power that purchase of the steamships for the North- the people would revolt against such West for the meat trade, the leader of actions being taken, we find that when the Opposition has repeatedly asked he faced[ the Premier and the other Miii- almost every member wvho has spoken in isters his attack, to say the least of it, support of the purchase of these steamers was weak indeed. I think that any old how it was going to benefit the consumer. politicians would say that they had never Now, it appears to me, once we admit the known such a weak case made the basis existence of a meat riug-and I think of a no-coalidence motion in the Parlia- that there are few indeed in the State who ment of Western Australia as the leader will deny its existence in Western Aus- of the Opposition put tip here a few tralia-we must admit also the meat ring nights ago, and after the reply that has does not miss any link, first the grower in been given by Ministers I am satisfied that the North-West, then the shipping com- the people generally will be of the same panies and the auctioneers, down to the opinion. We find that even the official retail butchers. Many of them are inter- organs of the Opposition ate now blaming ested in the ring; not all-I quite under- the leader of the Opposition for having stand that. I believe I have said "auction- wasted the time of this House in dis- cers.' Well, even if they are interested in cussing such a motion which had no possi- the ringI it would be a very small interest bility of succeeding, and they have indeed, and we can leave them out. Per- pointed out the weakness of the ease haps it would rather be rather offensive wvhich that gentleman placed before the to the member for West Perth. though I House. He appears now to be in the am sure he is not connected with the ring. position of a man who arrives in town Supposing we leave out the auctioneers, with a great reputation as a fighter. For we have the large growers, the steamship some time after his arrival. he has great companies, and the retail and wholesale difficulty in finding anybody who will butchers interested in this ring. If we enter into an argument with him, and admit this fact it does not matter to the everything he says is accepted as right. large butchering- firms what price is paid, The leader of the Opposition has claimed or wvhat price they appear to pay, for to he a great financier and a great politi- the stock ii, the Fremantle mairLet; because cal tactician, and to be able to put his it is merely a paper transaction; they are finger on the financial piulse of the world. really buying from themselves. On the He said at these great Liberal rallies, other hand, if a small man, or one outside "these men in Power know nothing about the ring, is desirous of entering- into the finance, and how can they be expected butchering trade in Perth, hie has to pay to manag~e the affairs of State?" And that amount in cash when lie goes to pur- he led the p)eople to believe that, when he chase his cattle. This is where it makes came before the House, his charges wvould a difference, if we admit the existence be proved as correct. But when he meets of a ring, while they can show on paper the Premier his reputation is shattered. that they airc carrying on their retailing He is like the ma', with the reputation butchering business at a loss, if they are as a fighter. Once he finds anybody so disposed, they are at the same time only courageous enough to enter into an argu- buying their own cattle in the market at ment with him, hie is worsted, and I ven- Fremantle: and they can show any price ture to say that the man with the at all; it is merely a paper transaction, least financial knowledge in political and] reallyv does not affect them. When life would now be pleased to they come to retail the meat, if they follow cross swords with that gentleman. their books right through an this basis, It was almost pathetic to see the look of on what they pay in the Fremantle market, disappointment on the faces of members they appear to be retailing at a loss. The 4,32 [ASSEMBLY.] outsider. however, who is cutting into and settlers are going to fight for their the trade, has to pay these charges, and righlts. And undoubtedly they are; I give hie is on a. very different footing indeed. hem every credit for doing so; but surely. That ig one way in wAhich it can be shown while the member for Beverley is busy in that it is going to benefit the consumers, forming an association to fight for the if thle State steamishipis are successful, igh,,ts of the class to which lie belongs, which I believe thleyv will be. in allowing the farmers and settlers, lie will not deny the snmial grower in thle North- West, the to the rur-al or agricultural labourer the man ,' ,t eon nected with 5 the meat ring;, same right to combine to look after his to hu',P facilities to get his stock to the righits as anl employee? That is all the Fzeintiurlc market. That is all that is formation of a rural workers' union necessary to bring about a considerable means, and I am sure when the member reduction in the price of meat to the con- for Bleverley looks at it from that light sumer in the nietropolitan area. Then lie will not again saiy that he is pleased also I have heard the leader of the Op- that these men have failed to form a position say in the House, and he has been union. Surelv a powverful organisation reported onl several occasions to have said, such as the Farmers' and Settlers' Asso- that stagnation exists in the Lands De- ciation does not want to fight these meon partmnen t and that we can go there and disunited and have them cut upl in detail. fill( four or live clerks who have nothing They are not afraid of the strength of the to do. though we find from the figures pre- Rural Workers' Union when they take sented by the Minister for Lands that the oppqi-tunity to combine themselves. It land settlement is undoubtedly going on. ap~pears to me a sor-ry state of affairs when Someone in the House, I think it was the we see one of the pai-amount industries member for Forrest, sugge sted that if it of the State, the agricultural industry, was the case, that there appeared to be claiming it cannot pay anything like a nothing going onl in the Lands Depart- fair- rate of waiges, or give a fair set of ment, it showved there was better admini- working conditions to thle men employed stration. and that the officers were carry- in it. It haqs been thle history of organised ing out their work onl better business labour throughout the world that where lines. That may be the case, but another good wages are paid and fair conditions solution of it appears to me to be this: exist, the labour is more productive, and the Ylinister for Lands has shown us how material is produced at a lesser cost than he has endeavoured to stop these illegal where lower wages and bad working con- transfers of land. Undoubtedly many of ditions exist. If that is the case--and I the St. George's-terrace farmers, who have believe it is-it is not at all to be won- been making a living in the past out of dered at, because on the very face of it, land trainsactions, havec found their ocen- we must reeogmrse that anl industry that Sat ion gone. Mird they are not thronging pays good wages and gives fair condi- the uii-ridois of' thle department as they tions is going to attract the very best used to (10 formerly, and the clerks are labour; and without a doubt the wages not imiH a round getting in formation and conditions iii the agricultural industry for then: instead of for tilie manl who is for workers on the farms is not such really' dewirons of going on the land, and thlat would attract the best class of labour selerting for himself. I was struck by one to the State. T would like members of the rcmark mnade byv the member for FBe'er- Opposition interested in farming matters ley, ir. Broun) in regard to the plat- to look at the finati ci in this wvay. They form of thle Rural Workers' Union. The ar-c real ly stantding in thieir own light. lion. member stated lie was pleased that The niember for Beverley said that many the efforts of thle orgauiser throvigh his of the men emnployed wer-c bieakinig valu- district to form this union had failed, and able machinery through incompetency. that there were few indeed of the agri- How can the fa rmers expect anything else cultural labourers who had joined the when the only class of labour they get union,. Yet a moment or two afterwards is that wvhich cannot find em ploymet any- thle bon., member said that the farmers where else and which, in the last resource, [16 JULY, 1912.]43 453 must go to the farming areas "to work," upon the capital that was put into it. It as it is termed, "for the cocky." I believe has crushed 74,600 tons for 11,961 ounces. those engaged in the industry are really It is also abandoned at a depth of about standing in their own light in this matter. 700 feet vertical. The Westralia Waihi The member for 'Moore (Hon. H. B. Le- at Davyhurst has crushed 46,279 tons froy) was very fearful that the State, in for 19,700 ounces. This also is practi- embarking onl these different enterprises, cally abandoned at a depth of 600 feet. was going to interfere with private-enter- I think I am correct in saying that there prise people who were putting capital into is no producing mine inl Australia to-day, various industries in the State. I think the payable at a depth of 1,000 or over, State has a counter claim in some of the that has been continuously payable from industries for the treatment it has re- the surface down to a depth of 1000 feet. ceived from private-,enterprise people In almost every instance in gold mining who bave gone into various in- in Australia poor zones have been met dustries in the State. I refer more with at different levels, but the mines particularly to the mining industry. In payable below that depth have kept on the earlv nineties the discovery of the with their development work and have Eastern Goldfields attracted population gone through the poor zones to get pay- from the different States of Australia, able values at greater depths. Yet wre and from all over the civilised world; and find these mines, which took a great am- one can quite realise the great impetus ount of money out of the districts I have the discovery of the goldfields gave to the referred to, did not give the p~ropositions State of Western Australia; but iii many a fair mining chanice; and now the State instances., I claim, private companies, who is in the position that it has spent a developed, or partly developed some of great amount of money in providing the claims in this State, have not acted water services, railway com muni cation, fairly in their transactions and dealings public offices, and all the different con- with the State. I must give credit, and veniences. the State provides to try to I tlhink most people will, to the Adminis- assist these people to carry on the indus- tration of the day in the early nineties try; but I claim the companies have not, for the prompt manner in which they con- and the figures I have quote& support structed rilways into the interior and me in claiming that they have not, given provided water suplies to ])ernmit privaite- the State a fair- go in the mnininga indus- enterprise people to exploit time golden try' at any rate of Western Australia. wealth in the goldficids areas; but I1claim Another instance. and one of the most they have not been met in a fair spirit ini glaring of the lot, is the Queensland Men- many instances. I have a few figures relat- zies at Menzies. The mine has crushed ing to the gold production of some of the 50,321. tons for 76,928 ounces. bitt is also mines immiediately north of Kalgoorlie, nbandoved at a depth of 600 feet. I have most of them being situated in the M4en- here a clipping from a report of the in- zies electorate. The Paddington Consols, spector of mines for this district, which '30 miles north of Kalgoorlie, has crushed bears upon this matter. It reads- 133,000 tons of ore for 60,000 fine ounces. The Queensland Menzies mine has The nine is now aibanrdoned, and] the (lone very little work during the year. greatest depth reached on this mine was This is a remarkable mine, after having 600 feet. A little further on, at Bardoc, paid between £50,000 and £100,000 in~ there is the Zoroastrian. This mine dividends that it shouild be to-day lying treated 70.393 tons for 49,494 finie ounces almost idle. The shoot of values which of gold, but is also abandoned,. and the paid these large divdends pitched diag- greatest depth reached is something over onally through the entire lease, and was 400 feet. There is also the Golden Pole mined to within l0ft. of the boundary, at Davybiurst. The member for Pingelly -where displacement' occurred, the "'as at one time managing this mine, arid boundary being so near to the Wads I know he has stated, and. I believe, cor- lease,. belonging to another company, 'eetly. that it paid over 400 per cent. that they stopped further prospecting 454 454[ASSEMBLY.]

for this splendid ore shoot. It is the never have been crushed, was taken out opinion of several competent miners and sent through the battery to keep it that this shoot could be again located. g oing. Moreover, a hugh dump of many This company were forced to abandon tho0usands of tons of nulfloek was delib- their mine owing to die injustice imposed crotclv trucked dowvn into the faces, by the working of the concentration of trucked along the levels to the shaft, and labour sections of the Act. However, I brougbt uip and put through the battery; wvill deal with that phase of the question anti so. through management such as this, later on. The Ladly Shenton, iMenzies, we find the mine abandoned to-day. Tm- crushed 96,611 tons of ore for a return of mnediately after the company ceased op- 132,656 ounces; the Alpha lease, imme- erations they let nmn tribute parties into diately adjoining, has enished 18,807 tons the mine. Thlese men were making really f or 16,830 ounces, and the Lady Florence good 'rages, some of them fromt £10 to has crushed 7,813 tons for 5,690 ounces. £20 per week, but the company allowed These three leases, which have worked thle water to rise in the mine, a 11( the men the one continuous ore-shoot, thus give had to go away, leaving 2-ounce stone a total of 123,231 tons crushed for an. flooded by the water. This is another in- nrrregate return of 154,676 ounces of stance in which private enterprise in the fine gold. Yet we find that mines which niining industry has not given thle State have produced this amount of gold are a fair return for the efforts the State has practically abandoned at a depth of 700 made to help them develop the mines. It feet. In this case I know that the is sometimes said that values will go0 out directors decided upon closing down very in all these distiricts at a comparatively much against the advice of the manager, shallow depth. This has been [the opinion and this too, with £30,000 in hand and a in the past, but there is at least one mine well-equipped plant on the surface. The which has proved the contrary: I refer to show was closed down without having the Menzies Consolidated. T his mine has bengiven a fair mining chance of prov- been working continuously for the last 16 ing whether good values would not again or 17 years. employing an average of come into the reef. Another striking ex- from 100 to 150 men. They hsnve had ample is furnished in the Cosmopolitan poor zones to go through: in fact theme at Kookynie, 13 or 14 miles north have been tines when the different work- of Menzies. A few years ago Koo- ing faces in this mine were no more kynie "was oue of the most pros- promising than those in some of the p~erotis townships on the goldfields, mines abandoned to-day. But the man- yet to-day it is practically deserted. a ement kept onl wvoikiz on a different The p~rinci pal mine in the diistrict, the principle. 'lucy went th rough the poor- Cosmopolitan, has crushed '543686 tons looking places, and to-day, at 1,200 feet for a return of 264.206 ounces of fine from the surface. this reef is as lav ze and gold. The Cocnrnpolitan mine was work- enrnies as good values as at any Previous ing well anti paying fair dividends until time in the history of the mine, and the it came into the hands of a well-known mine is still employing between 100 and firm of mnining engineers, who control 1.50 men, thus showing that where a com- man -y properties in the State. Mell in pany has persevered the gold has con- the district to-day will tell you that im- tinued to go down. I referred Inst now mediately' upon this firm assuming con- to the concentrating sections of thle Mlin- trol they increased the batten, power ing Act. Under the Act a company em- frant 20 to 50 head, and proportionately ploving a certain amount of labour on increased the tonnage of ore treated,; but, one lease can get concentration of that unfortunately, it was not done by' takting labour, or amalgamation as it is some- out the really payable ore. Men who were times termned, and so take the average of employed on the work are prepared to the men working on the whole of their state that the filling which had been put leases. That is to say'. supponse a com- into the stopes, mullock which should panyv had a lease here in this Chamber, [16 Juim; 1912.] 4555 and another situated in the Perth Town various reasons this industry has of late Hall. Of these two leases they are work- years fallen off considerably. I know the ing only one, but as a result of their em- present Minister for Mines must find it a ploying more labour on the one lease very difficult department to control; that than is demanded, they secure concentra- is, if he is being asked to show any good tion of labour. And in some instances, results from the system; because, during through the working of these sections, we the last six or seven years, there has been have companies holding 200 or 300 acres noticed amongst those of the prospectors of land, all the labour being concentrated who have a few hundred pounds capital, at one spot. This Queensland Menzica a ma rked tendency to forsake prospecting Company was a glaring instance, showing on the g-old-fieids and transfer their labour how the concentration sections of the Act and their capital to the agricultural areas. work against the true interests of the I amn not making any complaint about mining industry. Another company held that. I believe that perhaps it is in the the adjoining mine, the Nada lease it was best interests of the State that these men called. The Queensland Menzies people should have done so. But it is impossible worked a shoot of ore through their own for themn to be in two places at once, and lease and at about 600 feet the shoot was the drain made upon the State's re- found to be going out into the Nada lease. Sources, 'both in men and money, to de- They entered into negotiations with the velop the agricultural areas, is in my Nada people to secure the ground to fol- opinion responsible to a great extent for low up the shoot, but they could not come the falling off in the returns from the to terms and, unfortunately, a displace- public batteries. One day last week w e ment occurred 10 feet from the Nada had some new regulations designed to boundary. This is not the first displace- assist those still battling on the goldfields. ment that has occurred in the Queensland Among them is a regulation relating to Menzies property. Sometimes a reef of low-grade ore, and making a special gold-bearing ore may shift a few feet one concession in respect to ore crushed of side or the other, and this is what oc- a value of six weights or under. curred there. However, they could not Whilst I appreciate this attempt to asqsist come to terms with the Nada Company to the men working in the indiustry, I think follow the ore shoot, and consequently the the term "03weights bullion" is not quite Queensland Afensies people transferred definite enough. In many, cases gold won their plant to another locality. Wile the from the battery, -whether private or machinery was being removed, the mann- State. is not worth mnore than, £2 15s.;- flqer said to me that if he had control of sometimes it is as ]ow iii value as £ 2 10s., the Nada ground this machinery, would while v-ery often in-deed it is not worth not have been dismantled. The position more than £E3 per ounce. whereas in other to-day is that the Nada lease is aban- cases more fortunate prospectors, having dloned, and anybody could take it uip. buit a show where gold values are good, secure unfortunately it would cost thousands to gold of a value of 4s. a weight. On the put the Queensland Mkenzies mine into the wording of this new regulation the con- same condition as it was when first aban- cession is to he given to ore of a value of cloned on the ore shoot escaping- into the six weights or less. I think the regulation next property. I -want the Minister for would give better satisfaction if it re- Mlines to look carefunly into this phase of ferred to a money value. If the Minister mining, for I know from experience that thinks it is advisable to give a concession it is high time some action was taken in the case of ore containing gold to the in this regard. Another State enterprise extent of six weights or less, I think it we hare is the public battery svsteni. would be much better to make it. say, 24s. Many years ago the system was started per ton, to use the money value instead by a previous Administration, andl it has of the amount of bullion; because it is done a grat deal of good indeed for the very unsatisfactory for one man to get mining community, hut, unfortunately, for the benefit of this concession on six 456 456[ASSEMBLY.] weight dirt worth perhaps 24s., while companies. I was pleased to notice in another man might have seven weight the session before last that amendments dirt, which is worth only 20s., not- were made to the Tributers Act so that withstanding which he would not be the trihuter shouid get £3 per week before able to take advantage of the con- any tribute percentage could be collected. cession. This matter should be looked That is a good thing, but I would be pre- into, and I trust the Minister will do pared to go further and say that the ar- so. In passing, I must compliment the bitration rate of wages ruling- in that dis- \Jinister for having, immediately upon trict should be the amount. That would assuming office, gone into the question be fair all round. Somie mighit sa ,v tit the and found that it was possible to pay mine owner would not have a fair' chance prospectors for their sands upon agree- and would not get anything. I sa; that ment of assay. This is a boon that pros- where a man is willing to lot on tribuite1 pectors have long looked for but were un- it. is fair evidence that he does not wish able to get until the present Minister for to work it or that he considers it would Mines took charge of the department. not be payable to work on wages. If a I give hima credit for having done this, man risks his labour on the chance of get- and I know that throughout the goldfields tigntig opercentage should he his action has been much appreciated. paid until the full arbitration rate of Another regulation wvhich I think should wages is earned. For anything above that be altered is that -which provides that all sum the owner should be paid because ore over two ounces per ton shall pay an lie has probably put down shafts and extra 5 per cent, crushing charge. The levels and perhaps has opened uip the same argument which I used with regard mine to a certain extent, and when gold to the six pennyweights proposition ap- is obtained lie is deserving of somue re- plies here. A man who handles two- comupeuse. I say, however, that no per- ounce Ore Might not be doing so well centage should be paid until the full ar- as a man who handles, nine or ten penny- bitration rate of wages has bean earned weight ore,' for the reason that the high- by the mnembers of the tribute party. grade ore is difficult to get. Sometimes Turning to the industrial side of mining, it has to be carted a long distance, there is a great controversy among mem- and usually it is found in small reins. bers of the miners' unions and the min- A man sometimes works six or even ing community generally as to the ad- twelve months, and he gets Only a visability, or otherwise, of continuing the proportionately small return in cash al- contract system in mines. I believe our though hie has had a two-ounce crush- contract system is one of the worst ever ing. It looks very well on paper, instituted in any mining community in but that is all. This regulation should the world. I believe that the contrast sys- not apply to ore going over two tem, or so-called contract. system as it ounces and the man handling it should exists to-day, is as near an approach to not be asked to pay the extra 5 per cent. sweating as wve can get. It bringsou Another aspect of the maining industry the -worst side of human nature, both in which I believe will occupy a good deal of the employer and employee. amnd I believe attention and wvill be of benefit to the thle employee often requires to bie pro- State, is the system of tributing. Mem- tected against himself as much as he does bers will ag-ree it is feasible that, where a party of these large mnines have been worked down aginst his employer. Take to a great depth, there are often small st rong you ng m en, who a re comipeten t main- reins on sonic of the leases which are ers, and who want to mnake a little more altogether distinct from the main body than the ruling rate of wages. The;' will of ore which the company have worked. take risks and go into places which they Tributers are always willing to work know perfectly well are not altogether safe. these small veins if they can get there They will go into places before the fumes on fair and reasonable terms from the have dispersed, and they swallow more [16 Juur, 1912.]47 457

~dust than they otherwise would, and the while the contract system continues this result of such practices is to be seenr in tendency will exist. If the contract sys- the Coolgardie sanatorium to-day. On tem is abolished and the men kno-w thlat the other hand an employer, having let they cannot get work tinder contract, we this work on contract, feels that he is not will find that the great majority wvilt be bound to see that the men are working willing to give a fair day's. work for a under safe conditions. The shift boss fair day's pay. From my mining know- might go around, but his only concern ledge, and it is fairly extensive, I believe is to see that the battery is kept going. that the sooner the contract svsteLu is If the contract system were abolished, abolished the helter it will be for all con- it would be the duty of the shift boss cerned. Another miatter to which pro- to see that the -work is .carried on pro- minence is being given is that of working perly. He -would go around and see the night shifts. Some little time ago- a Corn- miners once or twice every shift. If mission were Appointed to inquire into the there is dangerous ground, he knows it is subject of miner's phihisis, the prevalence to his advantage to take no risks. Under of tuberculosis, miners' diseases, and coin- the contract system, however, there is a plaints to which miners are subject. I sort of divided responsibility, and the shift believe that one practical method of bet- boss does not like to interfere with the men tering the health of miners is to do away or to prevent them from getting on as with night shifts. Perhaps some members fast as they can. A man might see that have not worked in the mines and (d0 not the working faces are kept safe, but fur- know anything about the conditions of ther behind the ground might not be the industry. I ask those members to safe, and it is nobody's business to see picture the position This Chamber is that these places are properly looked larger, and has more air space, and is after. I believe that more than 50 per better ventilated than the ordinary mine cent. of the accidents which have oc- underground; and yet into the same space curred on the Boulder mines through we have 200 or 300 men working continui- falls of grouind occurred in the circum- ously from Sunday night till Saturday stances I have mentioned. If the con- niuhf. E~ach man carries a candle and tract system were abolished, better super- we may be sure the candles are not of vision could be maintained and the mines the best quality, and flo not improve the would be worked on safer lines then they quality of the air in the minec. Constant are at present. I have conversed witht explosions are taking plice; high grade many mnining managers on this matter, explosives are used, and it has been and they invariably have said that men found impossible to make a. satisfactory working on wages will not give the same explosion without griving off fumes which satisfaction as they used to do some are destructive to the health of anyone years ago. There may he something in who inhales them. From Sunday at m-id- this contention, and it is only natural night until the following Saturday at mid- to suppose that that is the ease. If a night the continnonIs round of work goes mine is earying on work on contract on. The men are going into this atmr,- systemn and a change is made to the wage sphere night after night and day after system, a large number of the men em- day, and there is no chance of the ployed would find that the ordinary ar- mine g-etting a blow out except on the bitration wages would not come up to one day in the week. In addition to what they have been used to making un- this we find that the men very often have der the contract system. I admit that to take what test they can get during the under the contract system the men often day while the temperature is over 100 make more than the arbitration wages. in the shade. How can a man sleep) and be fit to go to work at 12 o'clock at night On the othier hand, there is Also the ten- uhder such conditions? Can he be in a dencY to let work on contract on proper physical condition to give satis3- the ground that it would not be faction to his employers uinder such con- Advisable to show too good results, and ditions9 Tuberculosis and kindred chest 458 (ASSEMBLY.] and lung diseases are more liable to attack been discovered. I regret that he is not people whose physical condition is low, able to understand a paragraph writtent and I contend that one of the reasons in plain English, because there is a very why lung diseases are so prevalent among great difference between the opening up the mining community is traceable t~o of a new field and discovering it. The- night working. I believe the House would hon. member stated that Ora Banda and be justified in endeavouring to abolish the Mount Jackson had been discovered prior, system of working underground the whole to the early days of Kalgoorlie, and that twenty-four hours round, and wake pro- his old colleague, the late Minister for vision that so many hours must be allowed Miines, had been nursing Ora Banda for to elapse to give the fumes a chance to the past ten years. I can only say that, disperse from the mine. I think the as a result of that ten years' nursing, the, member for Leonora, while speaking last infant was until lately still unable to, week, claimed that the mining industry walk, and per medium of the Redistribu- was still paramount, although the agri- tion of Seats Bill, it was fathered on to. cultural industry was making great the innocent member for Coolgardie. I strides. I do not feel very much con- do not believe there is a mining district cerned whether the mining industry or the in this State towards which so much. agricultural industry takes the leading neglect and want of sympathy and con- position, providing that the gold yield sideration has been shown during the past does not diminish, but that it is due to two or three years, as Ora Banda; as a& the continued expansion of agricultural result of which the progress of a live and development. If in this way the mining prosperous field has been retarded. For a industry is forced to take second place period of at least twvo years, residentsr among the industries of this State, I will there had uinavailingly urged upon ther not complain. I believe that if the pre- late Minister for 'Minies to give them what sent Administration have a chance to is of all importance to a mining field- carry on as they are doing, the mining an adequate water supply, and I can say and agricultural industries will continue on the other hand, that I do not be- to make great strides and thus we will be lieve there is any district in this State doing something to assist Western Aus- that has been dealt with more expedi- tralia to take and retain a leading posi- tiously than this field during the past five, tion among the States of the Common- or six months, and where greater success. wealth. promises to result. What is the history of Or:, Banda? As stated, I visited Sifting suspended from 6.15 to 7.30 p.m. that district during the recess, and it has been said by one of my critics who also The MINISTER. FOR MINES (Hon. represents a mining, constituency that he P. Collier) :Although the debate, so far has been disappointed at the want of as it hans progressed, has called forth very assistance given to the goldfields. Whilst little criticism regarding either of the that may be excusable in an ordinary departmients under my control, I, never- citizen, it is wholly unfair and inexcusable theless. desire to give the House some in- an the part of a public man, more parti- formatiion concerning the work which has cularly when the district concerned hap- been accomplished during the year, more pens to be a promising centre in his own particularly with regard to the Mines constituency. This is a clipping taken D~epartmnent. Exception bus been taken from a newspaper some time after my by a member of the Council, who was visit to the district, and just to show howv also a member of the late Government, incorrect his statcment is, I will read to a somewhat innocent parivgraph in the what the people of Ora Banda think of Governor's Speech which states that, dur- the present Government- ing the year, new fields have been opened Just now we cannot but come to the up at Ora Banda and Mount Jackson. conclusion that although -Mr. Collier That hon. member declared] that it was has not given uts all that we asked for,. news to him to hear that these fields had lie has at least shown his sympathy by (16 Jutv, 1912.]45 459

giving what we asked for in many eases, what has taken place at Mt. Egerton, a and in every ease has done the best he tiew district in thie Peak Hill goldfield. can under the circumstances. The In October, 1910, the Assistant Govern- geological party arrived to-day under ment Geologist made the recommendation the charge of Mr. Jephson and will to tlhe then Minister for Mines-

Department inl the past to buy the nearest industry. In addition crushing facilities second-hand mill to the site where it hav-e been provided for at many prilvate was proposed to erect it. At Meeka- mills. In that new district. 50 miles to tharra, although they had a 10-head south-west of Southern Cross called West- battery there, prospectors were prac- oils, arrangements have been made with tically driven to Day Dawn, finding a private company to provide crushing it cheaper to carry their ore to Day facilities for all thle prospectors there and Dawn and have it crushed at a pri- the battery has been at wvork onl that field rate battery. L~fter going into the matter, for about five months and a considerable I decided that the only remedy for that amount of stone has been cr-ashed with state of affairs was the erection of a satisfactory results. Again at Marvel new plant, and that has been ordered Loch, where my predecessor had been sub- and is now being put together. Exactly sidising an obsolete mill, which brought the same thing prevailed at Aft. Ida, one forward more condemnation from the of the best little districts inl the hack coun- prospectors than any other battery in the try, which hars yielded a large amount State, I hlave now, biy granting a subsidy of Itold for manly years past. The plant of £1,000 arranged for the erection of a there was obsolete, and I have decided new battery, which will be completed to erect a new battery onl that field. At next week, and I believe, according to the- the heg-inning of the year, in order that terms of the contract, crushing will be the North-West should not be neglected, carried out there touch cheaper than at T decided to send one of the Government any other mill in the State. Again, in Geologists there, and lie has, during the Raveiston, in the Peak Hill district, simi- past four months, travelled through prac- lar assistance has been given. The mem- tically the Pilbara goldflields, and is now ber for Mur-chison will knowv as the result about to return to Perth. The result of of my action in forfeiting a number of his visit is that, after forwarding me a leases which have been locked up, there report from Bamboo Creek, while he was are now 25' or .30 prospectors at work in that 'district, I have decided that a new there. battery' shall be erected there, and steps AMr. Holman: They have taken up every aIre being taken to have that done at the lease. ear1liest possibe moment. I can point to another new field, Mt. Keith, situated 30 The MINISTER FOR MINES: The miles from Alt, Sir Samuel. The matter old Peak Hill leases had been held with- of crushing facilities was only brought out a manl in the district, but there are tinder my' notice during my visit to 'the now thirty-five p~rosp~ectors atl work, and back country three nionthis ago. A it is my intention to spend £1,500 in put- 2_P010215t was immediately despadtcbed to ting- that battery in order. Further, I have retort oil thle place, as well as the inspec- decided onl rem odelling and overhauling tor of mines, and last week I had the the whole of the old plants. I have had a pleasure of nipproving of the erection of report prepared by the new Superintend- a new hatter '. Tius, it will be seen that ent of State batteries showing the re- thore are five new batteries approved. or pairs and imp)rovements required by the in 'nurse of erection at the present time. odd1 batteries, because many of the old inl thle State. rand this is more than has ones are sadly in disrepair, and I have ever been done inl thle previous history of approved of anl expenditure of £8,000 for mininug in Western Australia, and yet, overhauling and remodelling these plants. iiotwitlistanding this fact, we halve ill- Does that bear out the statement that ab- informed critics who will not even solutely nothing has been done for the mining industry? I say that not for very take the trouble to rend the daily papers, many- years past has so much work been because. if they did, they wonid find that done in regard to assistance to the pros- thle statenients they had made were in- pectors on the various mining fields. correct. Those critics declared that no- Shortly after taking office I found that thing had been donie to assist thle mining one of the most srions complaints by the [16 JuiS, 3912.1 4610

-customei s of our State mills was that of the mining industry will depend largely they were unable to obtain payment for on the profitable exploitation of low- tailings for at least two mouths after the grade propositions. I may mention for comipletion of assay. I have now made thle information of the member for Pid- anl arrangement with the Treasurer where- bara that at the much discussed battery by for the lpast eight months I have been at2-Mile Sandy, where thle charges have -&be to pay the lprospeetors within four- been higher than ait any other Govern- teen days of the assay. That is a great ment battery, I have decided to make a assistance in the backblocks where men reduction and bring them down to the have been struggling along on a low-grade level of the rates charged on the Murchi- sbow, for they will now be able to obtain sonl goldfields. A rearrangement of the the money a fortnight after assaying, managerial staff has been made where- whereas formerly they were waiting some- by we are running two more batteries timles two months. than previously, wvithi provision for Mr. Foley: Four months sometimes. a spare battery manager from the ex- The -MINISTER FOR MINES: Two isting staff who will be able to go months was the minimum. Further than onl relieving duty froni one battery to an- that 1 have agreed] to make a special re- other, and with all this greater efficiency bate onl low-grade ores, realising that the we are making- a saving of over £290 per onl Iy mens of giving cheaper crushing, annum., This in itself shows that sonme- facilities to the public is to increase the thiing- has been accompl ishted. Then again tonnage crushed at thle State batteries, be- if we turn to ihat other very necessary ad- cause, after all, I have found that the junct of lprofitabie mining on the gold- great difficulty with our battery system fields, the questioni of water supply, what is that the batteries to-day are only crush- do we find? That the price of water froma ing up to one-third of their total capacity. the Goldfidds Waler Scheme to low-grade After going into the matter. I decided to prop-.ositions has been reduced by from make a rebate of 2s. per ton or Is. per 2s. to 2s. 6id, per thousand gallonls, or a. hour. owi all parcels of low-gfrade ore under rebate is beingt allowed of Is. Gd. oii all Gdwts. in valne up to 1,000 tonls inl ex- ore up to the value of 10s. per ton, whilo. tent, not necessarily from one lease7 but onl ore up to thie value of 14s. per toni. from any number of leases and any num- whichi was preiously chiarg-ed 5s. per her of crushings. thousand gallons. we are allow.ing a sun- MrY. 17ohiuan:- You have put too 'low a hr rebate, In this way there is %great value on it. jprospect of mines, which would otherwise The M11N[rSTER FOR MINES: The be unprofitable to work. being broughit bon. mnembr. will recognlise that it is all to a -profitable stage at anl earlOy date. I a question of how far tile State is pre- found shortly after taking office that in pared to lose money onl these transac- the South Yilgarn district, at Mart ci Loch, tions. The Government battery system. a very promising- field indeed hadiu been must be treated as a whole, and unfortu- handicapped for lack of a xvater supply. utitely we are losing a lot of money onl Sn far back Hs 1908 an agitation had been it. We could make one dwvt. of ore' pay cnmmeueed for the provision of a water by giving sufficient assistance from the sup~ply, hut nothing was done until Janu- Government, but there must be a point ary, 1911, whea rep~ort was obtained. below which it is not generally profitable After that, nothing further was done till for the Government to go. However, it May, when the late Minister for Mines is my desire to give this innovation a trial instrUCted that the matter should rernain and possibly we may be able to improve it in abeyance for three months. In JLuly later on; at any rate, this is a very moater- he would not promise that a pipe-linle ial assistance to the prospectors who are -would be laid down from the Goldflelds working lowv-grade ores in different parts "Water Scheme, notwithstanding that a of the State. Unfortunately, a great petition had been sent to the Government, portion of the rich ore has been worked which contained about 400 names. When out, and we must recognise that the future I took office this was one of the first mat- 462 462[ASSEMBLY.] ters brought uinder my notice, and I on tions. There arc properties working now from the files that the late Minister for that have not been working for many years Mines and the late Minister for Works past, and whilst I am determined that the had bandied the papers backwards and holding of properties out of use by those forwards for twelve months and absolutely who have no intention of working them nothing had been done. In the meantime shall not continue, I have always been pre- a water famine was being experienced in pared to give fair consideration to owners. thle district and residents were paying where consideration could be justified. 10s. per hundred gallons for water, not- Where companies or individuals have- withstanding that the engineer for mines spent considerable sums in opening up water supply suggested that the charge or developing properties they are entitled should be only four shillings per 100 to somne consideration in the matter of gallons. That is the sort of sympathetic exemption, and whenever a good case has assistance given by the late Govern- been made out I have niot hesitated to- ment to outback districts. On October grant that exemption. Neither have I 20, within a very short time of our hesitated, on the other hand, to forfeit comning into office, the Minister for prop)erties hield by' speculators who had. Works and I discussed the matter1 and no intention of working them and held wye decided that a pipe-line should themi only by the labotir of tributers. The he put down, and the water will be laid leader of the Opposition said that he on next week at a total cost of £12,000. wanted to know the cause of the falling A pipe-line has also been laid on to West- off in the battery returns. In my opinion ons. At Ora Banda the water supply is that falling off was largely caused by the just nearing completion at a cost of miannier in which his Government boomed £24,000, and at Meekatharra a supply is die Bujlinch field. We 1'ave had reports- being provided for an expenditure of from all over the back country where Gov- £9,000. All. these matters go to show that ernment batteries are aitua ted saying that although I have not been advertising the the prospectors were attracted to the Bull- fart-though that should not prevent finch field and have never returned; and, those interested being aware of it-I have moreover, from the knowledge I have d]one a considerable amount of work in gained during- the last nine months by order to assist and develop the mining meeting those interested in mining and industry. Taking the totals from the 3rd coming into contact with those hitherto of October until the 15th of July, a period prepared to invest capita] in the industry, of nine months, covering the term of office I say that that disastrous affair has done of the present Government, there has been miore injury to genuine mininge in Western exp~ended on wvater sup~plies and boring, Australia than anything since the wild- etc., On the Eastern Gold fields, £41,329; car days of fifteen or- sixteen years ago. on the Murehison Goldfields, £15,105; on Mr, Holman: It was worse than those the Pilbara Goldfields, £400, on the de- dlays. velopment of mining, loans, and rebates, The MINISTER FOR 'MINES: It was £6,393, and another amount of £E4,806, undoubtedly worse than those days, and which has been approved but the authorli- it will be a long time before this State ties for which at~e not yet issued; and on recovers fromn that experience; but the the erection of Government batteries, hon. memiber would blame me after I have £31,034; or a total expenditure in nine been nine months in office for the results months on mining development and assist- we arc now reaping from the action of ance to mining of £99,129. Do these his G overnment. fi gu res show that the necessities of the Mr. Holman: The greatest boost the Goldfields have in any way been na-- boodler ever got. lecred? That is a larger sum than has been expended in a similar term for many The MINISTER FOR MINES:, I do years past. In other ways I have been able niot desire to say anything further with to do something, particularly in the mat- regard to mining. I think I have shown ter of tightening up in regard to exemp- the falsity of the statement of that [16 JULY, 1912.]43 463

:gentleman, who in anl off-hand, airy receiving the lowest wage. We were fa-ced fashion, without giving any particulars during the past season with a considerable -or information whatever, declared that shiortage in rolling stock, and since the the goldfields have been absolutely Government have been in office we have -neglected. At any rate after travelling over approved of the purchase of 36 new loco- practically the whole of our goldflelds motives estimated to cost £150,000, and -daringj the past six months, I can say, and 250 waggons, the contract for which has -I believ e that hon. members who are sit- been let to the Maylancis workshops, at ting on this side of the House, and who an estimated cost of £36,000. represent the whole of the goldfields eon- Mr. Carpenter: Will they be ready in .stituencies will also say, that there has time for the next harvest? never been for many years past more The MINIS'IER FOR MINES : No. -contentment and satisfaction throughout hut there are 1,000 waggons under con- the goldficlds than at the present day. struction that were ordered by the pre- Now turning- to the railways, I suppose vious Government, and they will be avail- hon. members will agree with me when I able for the comuing ]ar-vest. :say we have passed through a very trying Mr. Carpenter: You will need diem. time during the past eight or nine months. The MINISTEFR FOR MINES :We 1 'Shortly after taking office we were faced shall. -with the position that the 'then existing lion. Frank Wilson: Where are you agreements were about to expire. Of tgettiung the locomotives from? 'Course, the responsibility of making new The MINISTER FOR 'MNINES: They .agreements with the organisations rested are coming from Great Britain. Although with the Government, and whilst these Krupp's tender was something slightly 'were not fixed up without some little fric- cheaper than the British tender, the Gog- tion, nevertheless, I can say that never ernient nevertheless decided to give the in the history of Western Australia has contract to the British manufacturer. there heel) more satisfaction amongst the There are 250 waggons being constructed -workers than exists at the present time. in the shops, and senders are now being We, of course, gave increases in several called for anl additional 500. We have ,directions, which as was stated by the given orders for the construction of roll- Premier, amount for the present financial ing stock involving anl expenditure of year to some £.74,000, hut we believe th-at £C377,450 during the nine months. those increases were justified. In fact, Mr. B. J. Stubbs: You will need it all. right throughout the whole of the staff, although there are some few matters to The MINISTER FOR TMIINES: If the be adjusted yet with one section of the season turns out as it promises, which employees, better wages are being paid we all hope, I am afraid that this addi- to-day than have ever been paid onl our tional rolling stock will not be sufficient to railways before. I noticed that during cope wish the coming harvest; but even the campaigni in the Central Province at if that be so, I am justified at this stage Geraldton the leader of the Opposition in saying that the fault will not lie wholly -declared that his sympathies were with the with the present Government. Cheaper men who hind gone out an strike. It excursion fares have been given ditring seems to me a rather strange way of the surnmer months to the gohdfields than showing sympathy, when one has the have ever obtained hitherto; and as a -op)portumnity to give inicreases, to increase result,. something like three times the the manl getting 7s. 6d. a day by 6d. to number of goldfields citizens have availed bring him up to Ss., and then, when one themselves of the opportunity to visit the that, but they is out of office, to expiess sympathy wvith coastal district s. Not only have been given the right to have the the man who is getting Os. that lie does tickets made available to Perth and Fre- not get an increase of 2s. In future it mantle, instead of the practice which oh- will always be the desire of the.Govern- tained in the previous year of having ment to give first consideration to those them available only for Bunbury, Albany, 464 404ASSEAEBLY.]

and Busselton. While I have the greatest hon. member that there was likely to be a admiration for those beautiful cities, deficit of £!156,000 on the year's opera- especially in the summer time when the tions. climate is nice and invigorating, I never- Hon. Frank Wilson: Will you explan theless believe that many of the goldfields howv he made up that estimate? people much prefer to visit Perth and The MINISTER FOR 'MINES: I do Fremantle than to go to those districts. not desire to exlplaini it. In fact, the reslts show that this has Hot. Frank Wilson: But it was not an been the case, and it has been a great estimate; it was only if the expenditure boot) indeed to people who have to put and the revenue were the same as in the up with the long, trying summer on the previous year. It was no estimate at all. goldfields. Also, in order that their trip The Mi-NISTER. FOR MINES: The may be made a little more comfortable for broad fact remains that the Under Trea- them, I have decided-in fact before sitter at that time anticipated a deficit. Christmas last I had running on the lion. Frank Wilson: NKo, hie did not. ooidhields lines second-class sleeping comn- The MINISTER FOR MINES: Her partnments. Two coaches were putt oil for did, and that even without any allowance the Christmas holidays, and at the present being made for increases to public ser- time there are three more in course of van ts. construction. We shall he able to cope 1-Ion. Frank Wilson: No. He showed. -with thle whole of the demand for second- a surplus of £16,000 on thme 30th Septem- class sleeping accommodation on the rail- ber. You knowr it, and why not quote the ways, a very much needed reform. minte? It was made up from the esti- M~r. Green: When will they be avail- mates of the departments. able ? The MINISTER FOR MINES: We The MXINISTER FOR MINES: They kniow all about the hion. member's esti- are in couirse of construction and will be mates. out in a few weeks, perhaps. One of the Ho it. Frank Wilson: It was not mine; other matters I noticed was in the speech it was the Under Treasurer's. of the member for Northam, where he The MINISTER FOR 'MINES: One declared that one thing the Government would imiagine that during the years the had failed in, and which all Labour Gov- hion. member was in office he had one long ernmeuts must fail in, was in regard to succession of surpluses. The public would the finances. hardly credit the fact that, covering the, M1r. Green: He thinks you require emn- whole period of six years, I believe T honpoint. am correct in saying that only once did The M1INISTER FRo MDTES: It is hie produce a little ewe lamb in the shape becoming quite a hoary old theory- on the of a surp)lus. part of our opponents that no body of Labour men can he capable of in any way Hon. Frank; Wilson: For two years we financing successfully, but I venture to had a surplus. say-and in fact the records of the Trea- The MINISTER FOR MINES: Then sury will show-that even if the disaster I beg- the hion. member's pardon. I was which occurred in October last had not speaking from memory and I thought it overwhelmed our friends, nevertheless was only one year,' and yet lion, members. there would hare been a deficit just as stand Up and charge this Government with itch as, if not greater than, that we have being incompetent with reg-ard to the at the present time. In fact the increases finances. to our railway servants, to the police, the Hon. Frank Wilson : You have started school-teachers and other public ser-iants, very well. more than account for the deficit with The MklINISTER FOR MINES: Their which thle year w'as wound uIP. The Government for six years had a proces- Under Treasurer in September last, as thle sion of deficits, and in some inistances I leader of the Opposition knows, the believe as great deficits as the one that month before the elections, informed the we have had this season. I believe the (16.JuLY, 1912.]46 465 accumulated deficit exceeded £300,000 at was with regard. to the finances. While one period. it was declared primarily that the objec- Hon. Frank Wilson: Yes, for four tion. was that money had been expended years. illegally, nevertheless the whole of the The MINISTER FOR MINES: After debate turned upon the wisdom of the we have been here for four years we shall procedure. see whether our accumulated deficit will Hon. Frank Wilson: Did it? exceed that. The MILNISTER FOR MINES: Prac- Hon. Frank Wilson:- You did not lose tically the whole of it, both in this and in £000,000 to the Federal Government. another place. The M*kINISTER FOR MINES: And Eon. Frank Wilson: You had better the hon. member did not lose the money turn up Hansard and see. we lost this year because of the bad The MINISTER FOR MINES: Much season. more time was devoted to showing that Hon. Frank Wilson: Very much more. businesses would be a failure than was There is no comparison. devoted to showing -that the steamers pur- The MINISTER FOR ININES: Hon. chase was illegal. members during the whole time they were Hon. Frank Wilson: It was proved. in office did not experience such a season The MINISTER FOR MINES: No- as the State has just gone through. body knows better than the hon. member. Hon. Frank Wilson : What nonsense! Will he contradict the Grown Law an- Your revenue shows it. Look at your rlioritics when they declared it was a per- railway revenue. fectly legal transaction? The MNINiSTER FOR MINES: Thle Hon. Frank Wilson: Certainly. We railway revenule? Careful administration. have better authority than that. Our railway reventie has been ver 'y much Th e MIlNIJST ER FOR MINE S: In any lower last year. Only by cutting, down case the Government are satisfied that the expendi lure a nd by careful admi nistra- nuthority is pretty sound. tion have we shown a profit. Hlon. Frank Wilsoti: What have you Hlon. Frank Wilson: Why uot give the charged themn up to, anyhow9 right figures? The MAINFISTER FOR IMINES: The The MINISTER FOR MINES: The hon. member got all that information. hon. memnber has given theml so often. that They have beeen charged up to the ex- the I-ouse does not wisht to be wear-ied pendituire authorised 'by the House. I-Ion. Frank Wilson:- Are they charged Hon. Frank Wilson: You got more; tip to the Treasurer's Advance Account? why not be accurate. The MINISTER. FOR MINES:- It is The MAINISTER FOR MNINES: Turn- nt because the transaction was illegal ing to the ver serious charge levelled that he and his Liberal friends were against the GO'overnnient during this de- worried, so much as it was that it was hate, that of doing something illgal- the first inroadl that was being made upon Hon. Frank Wilson : Why will yout not the huge profits of some of the members admit you got £C40.000 more revenue ont of the Liheral Leaguie; and while it was the railwa 'ys last year? declared for months past that had the The MI1NISTER FOR MNINES: I am Government succeeded in purchasing the dealing with another matter. tramways of Perth, had thle mayor of Hon. Frank Wilson: Then why makie a Perth offered no objection to the 1pur- misstatement? clise, and had we gone on and purchased them writhout Parliamentary authority, wre The M[INISTER FOR M3INES: I do would hatve been applauded as statesmen. not, arnd the bon. m'emhcr knows it. The hon. memnber was more concerned, in may- Hon. Frank -Wilson: Oh, no! iiig his amendment, as to the illegality The MINISTER FOR MINES: The of the action of the Government in en- expenditure of £475,000 without Parlia- tering into trading enterprises than hie mentary authority in the purchase of thle 466 466[ASSEMBLY.]

Perth tramways would have been a states- to do? The member for Murray-Welling- manlike action, but an expenditure of ton declares there is no anialogy what- £100,000 on trading concerns was wholly ever between cutting sleepers for one's illegal and all unwise proceeding. own requirements and cutting them for Hon. Frank Wilson: You cannot pur- the purpose of selling to others. chase the trains without Parliamentary Air. O'Loghlen : He admitted that authority. they had a surplus stock to dispose of to The MA~INSTER FOR MINES: The the public. hon. members did not care, nor did the The MINISTER FOR MINES : But critics care, whether we had Parliament- the bion. member failed to show 'why ary authority or not so long as the action there wvas no analogy. During his oc- met with their approval. cupancy of the commissionership. the Hon. Frank Wilson: Certainly; you Railway Department decided, because of have to go to Parliament for it. the high prices they were being charged The MINISTER FOR MINES: In any by the combine for sleepers, that they case the businesses are not going to pay. wvould erect a mill of their own; and the Hon. Frank Wilson: Are they not? results hav-e amply justified that enter- The 'MINISTER FOR MINES: So prse for tip to date the mill has re- hon. members declare. Now, I can never turned a profit of over £2,000, and has understand why if the State can profit- had the effect of reducing the price of ably control transport by land, and if it sleepers by 25 per cent. If, therefore, in is a good thing to do so, they cannot do one instance it is wise to erect a State it with more success by sea. There is a mill, why should it not also be wise in greater possibility of monopolies exist- another instance? In my opinion there ing in transport by sea; because if a is nothing that can be carried out by man wishes to go to Geraldton and does private enterprise which cannot with equal not care to ride on a privately-owned rail- success be carried out by the Government way, he can take the alternative and departments. One of the most intricate walk; but if lie wishes to go to K~imber- businesses in the Commonwealth is that ley to walk is too far, and hie is compelled of the post office, yet the State can suc- to travel by a privately-owned boat. To cessfully carry to every village, town and that extent there is always the greater hamlet ii [lie Commonwealth the letters possibility of a monopoly existing with of the people, no matter where those regard to shipping than there is with letters have been posted. But, notwith- regard to railways. The sameold 'bogey standing that the State can successfully tbat is being trotted out that the enter- control a huge concern of that kind, and pise is not going to be a success has been manage the railways successfully, it is urged against other enterprises taken up contended that the State cannot success- by this or any other Government. Was fully run a steamer to the North-West, there not a man occupying a public posi- or control two or three sawmills. tion in this State at one time who de- Hon. Frank Wilson : You must re- dlared it would be an unwise policy to con- member that there is no competition struct a railway from Fremantle to Perth whatever in those departments you refer because he said a cart came from Fre- to. mantle to Perth twice every day! It is TEhe MINISTER FOR MINES : What the same old argument. Every time a is it that the lion, member's friends nrc step forward is taken we are told one afraid of? If we cannot compete with is treading on dangerous ground. If the the privately owned concerns, they need State can supply its own requirements not worry about it. with regard to sleepers at a cheaper rate Mr-. Wisdom : They are not w-orrying than they can be purchased from the about it. private mills, why cannot the State also The MINISTER FOR MINES : Not supply the sleepers for the trans-Aus- wvorrying! There has never been such a. tralian railway, which it is our intention noise madie in the public life of the State [16 JULY, 191a.]46 467 before. Another place has been turned And at this there was applause. into a party House to a greater extent Hon. Frank Wilson: What about the than ever before in its history. I under- chilling works? stand that in the course of a similar The MINISTER FOR MINES; Why discussion in another place some of the did not the hon. member erect his chil- bitterest statements and the most violent ling works? Ever since I have been, in party speechies have been made regard- the House I have heard about these pro- ing the action of the Government- posed chilling works of his at Wyndham. l3Ir. SPEA'LKER: The hon. member is For six long years he had the 01)ppor- not in order. tunity of putting that part of his policy The MINISTER FOR MINES:- I am into practice, yet now he turns round and sorry I am not, because after all there wants to know why weT are not doing it. seems to be more fight in the Opposition Just pnjior to the election-, when the feel- in another place than in the Opposition ing, was getting pretty strong, the hion. we have here. mnember himself came round to the idea Hon. W. C. Angwin (Honorary Minii- that a steady supply of fat cattle could ster) : There is no Opposition in another he brought to Perth by a Government- place. owned steamer. The lion, member cannot deny the fact that lie pronounced himself 2%r. SPEAKER: Order! The -MINISTER FOR INTES : No, it iii favour of the policy of the Govern- ment-owned steamers. I will leave the is not a lparty House. I say that in enter- question at that. ing into these businesses the Government Hon. Frank Wilson: No, go on. have taken a wise step, one that will be to the ultimate advantage of the whole The MINISTER FOR MINES: The of the people of the State. hon member and his party have also been lion. Frank Wilson : Whom is it go- very indignant because the Government ing to benefit? proposed to give a grant to the Trades The M1INISTER FOR MINES : The Hall; in fact his colleague, the other hion. member will find out. It is not the leader, tabled a motion which amounted possible failure of the enterprises that is to one of no-confidence, stating that the worrying him; it is their probable suc- action of the Government in granting as- sistance to the Trades Hlill was against cess. If hie thoughit these enterprises- British liberties. It is a mnost remarkable were going to be pronounced failures thing that these gentlemen can. so quickly there would be no mnan in the State better .forget their own remarks because, as satisfied than himself, because his oppor- has been pointed out, there are any numn- tunity would then come again in two her of precedents for our action in that is bneause the hon. mem- years' time. It respect, right hack to the days of Sir ber knows these enterprises are going to John Forrest. But one -would hardly ex- he successful that lie is crying out so pect to find that the lion, member's own loudly. The hon. member himself, just Government, a few years ago, gave an ab- when driven on th eve of the election, soueurih grant for the erection of into a corner, uirged on by the strong trades halls on the goldields, without course of public opinion, declared himself any qualification whatever. The hion. in favour of Government controlled memiber knows that these halls erected by steamecrs. the unions are just as much political in- Hon. Frank Wilson: Did he? stitutions as are the trades halls of The MINISTER FOR MINES: Yes, Perth and Fremantle. To make so muchi in a speech made at the Queen's Hall trouible in reard to an, action which had on the 6th September last year, just be- already. been taken by his own and pre- fore the elections, he said- vious Governments is merely trying to A steamer would be put on the bood-wink the public. I have just been in- North-West trade when a steady sup- formed that the Fremantle Chamber of ply of fat cattle could be obtained and Commnerce secured a grant of valuable slaughtered. land from the previous Government; hut 463 [ASSEfl3LY.]

I suppose I had better remember that the have been opened up during the past few Fremantle Chamber of Commerce is not a months, pathways which I ventare to say political body, at least our friends would will be followed by every Government in say it is not. I have a little leaflet here the Commonwealth before very long, fol- which is reminiscent of the late election. lowved even by our Liberal fri ends in the It was issued by the Liberal League, and future, as in thle past they have followved it wants to know whether the electors are our footsteps wvhenever success has been going to vote for progress or stagnation. achieved. Limitation of State borrowing as it affects the settlers, no roads, no agri- Mr. 'MONOFER (York) : I have not too cultural railways, no water supplies. many eulogies to offer to the present Ad- These three items are not reproductive ministration on the score of His Excel- to the State as laid down by the Lab- lency 's Speech. It is my intention, dur- oar platform, and, that being so, can- ing- the remarks I have to make, to try, not be proceeded with. wherever I consider they are justly en- Our friends have been false prophets in titled to fair praise, to give them that that regard, and they were particularly praise. But whein I come to look calmly unfortunate inasmuch as there has been and quietly at the position and at the more progress in respect to these three many' instances they have pointed to as items dti n- the last nine months than entitlig them to credit, I feel that in the was made during the whole time the Lib- majority of cases they see what no one erals occupied the Treasury benches. At else can see. It is gratifying to learn any rate it is pleasing to know that the from the Speech that land settlement is electors did not accept them at their word, still going on in a satisfactory manner. It and still more pleasing to the settlers was also pleasing to Die to hear from the to know that the prophecies have not Minister- for Lands the other evening that been fulfilled. I do not wish to speak at someothing like two and one-half million any greater length; much of the ground acres of land had been surveyed, and that one might cover in a debate of this kind hie anticipated that it would all be up- has already been dealt with by various plied for in the very near future. At the speakers. The discussion has tended to srme time he expressed his intention of show the relative strength of parties in not allowing settlement to take place in this Chamber, not only in regard to num- certain areas. On a plan submitted to me bers, but in regard also to the arguments only to-day. I notice that north of Arrow- advanced; because I believe that not on smith and cast of Wandering, new areas any motion of no-confidence ever debated have been sub-divrided, and I venture to in this Chamber has a leader of the Op- say that in allowing these areas to be position got such a complete trouncing submitted to the general public, the Min- from the Premier as has been given our is ter is not carryin g out the principles friend during the course of this debate. hie put fot-ward. I have' been ,aiticulaylv At any rate I venture to say that the struck by one statement in 1-is Excel- work of the Government has not been leuc-Vs SpIeech. for the reason that it equalled since the inception of Responsi- Varies so materially in so short a time ble Government. from an answer given in another place Hon. Frank Wilson: You are blowing this afternoon. In the Speech we are your own trumpet, you know. told that 61 surveyors wvith their The INISTER FOR MINES: The staffs are in the field. In reply to a ques- hon. member was fairly effective in that tio in a nether place this afternoon the direction wvhen he had the opportunity, Minister- said that there are only 4S and having sat so long opposite the bon. surveyors in the field. If we are to take member it may be that I have acquired His Excellency's Speech and base the some of his bad habits. In any ease the whoie of the conclusions arrived at on Government have been faced with many the reply given to a question within three difficulties which did not beset previous wceks rf the opening of Parliament. we Administrations. New political paths must come to the conclusion that wvhen [16 JULY, 1912.] 4696 the Governor's, advisers prepared the re- and that since the increase was arranged marks for His Excellency's delivery they for and passed last session he knows of cold not have given the proper facts of one of these acmounts having been taken (lhe ease. I1 only mention that because over from the associated banks. by the I desire to deal with land settlement Government institution? Regarding the generally, and I wish particularly to draw Minister's restrictions, which I say he attention to those restrictions issued by had no power to enforce, and which the the Minister for Lands on the 20th Octo- present Land Act as it now exists never ber last, really before he had warmed gave him power to give effect to, though his Ministerial seat. He issued these in- he had the power to issue them, the At- structions. and they have been referred torney General might as well give in- to somewhat frequently in this Chamber. structions that in future petty larceny During last session, I asked a question will be a hanging business. He has as ats to whether hie had obtained authority much power to 'give such anl instruction to allow him to issue instructions, and I and give effect to it as the Minister for say,' with nit due respect to the Crown Lands has in this instance. What has Law Department, that these instructions been the effect of these instructions? It could never be given effect to. Only has brought a number of people, desirous recently we halve seen how futile these in- of putting a transfer thfrough, to Perth, structions have been, but they created a and they have bad to ask for anl interview certain amount of fear in the minds of with the Minister, and wvhen the Minister the associated banks, and the result has has interviewed them hie has almost in. been that where the associated banks variably told them to come back to him always looked upon conditional purchase in a couple of hours. When they come as equivalent to a Crown grant, the back hie tells them, "I have seen one of moment these instructions were issued, the under secretaries, and if you go to and in the face of a not too promising Mi. Under Secretary so-and-so lie will season, they closed up their pockets and fix you lup, but you are untder a very refused any further advances or assist- great obligation to me for the manner in' ance. I think the whole of the kudos for whlich I have trea ted YOU." that unsatisfactory state of affairs can Mr. Heitirann: I canl hardly imnagine be honestly laid oin the shoulders of the the Minister making such a statement. present Minister. Mr. Thomas: A most ungenerous state- Mr. Ileitmaun : You do not desire this ment. country to be governed by the associated Mr. MONGER : And in the case of a banks, do you? widow- Mr-. MONGER: Many of those who Mr. Green: Poor widow. obtained advances from the associated Mr. MONGER: Site was brought down banks are now realising that they made a 120 miles to interview the Minister, and mistake in removing their transactions when I met her iii Perth I told her if from these institutions to the Agricul- she had wasted a penny stamp I would tural Bank and are desirous of going, have done all the work for her. back to them. I think, notwithstanding Mr. Heitmann; That showvs it is un- the great cry made last October, that the necessary to comne down to Perth. Governmnent were going to liberalise the Mr. MONGER.: It shows how ridiculous conditions of the Agricultural Bank- tiese instructions were. I want to men- Mr. O'Loghlen: We did so. tion how one of the colleagues of the Mr. MONGER: Nominally, but can ally Minister for Lands was treated. The member point to any case where a farmer Minister for Works bad a conditional has reached the limit of E2,OO-or, I purchase which was converted from Sec- might say, there was no limit given to the tion 55 to Section 56 on the 26th, June poeswe gave last session. Can any last. I asked certain questions in regard mnember say he knows of friends who had to that particular block of land onl the transactions with the associated banks, 14th November last, and the Mlinister's [171 470 470(ASSEMIBLY.] reply was, "With regard to block so-and- that I had a most enjoyable trip, and r7 so, the department is awaiting the inspec- really enjoyed the opening remarks of tor's report re residence." The Minister the Minister for Works at thint confer- for Works was cognisant on the 14th ence. It was one of the most bouncing November that somebody wanted to know and bluffing speeches I have ever listened what the was doingr in) regard to his par- to from that gentleman, bitt wvhen the ticular holding. TIbis is what I take ex- conference sat for several hours during ception to: notwithstanding that he wvas the day, and when my two friends found wvarned on the 14th November last, it was that they had a very adverse audience to not until lie returned from his North- deal with, how different was the attitude West trip that hie made any attempt to of the Minister for Works towvards the bring ilie matter into (lie position of at constituents of the Minister for Lands as comimired to the treatment meted out to, Hon. W. C. Angwvin (Honoratry Min- mine on~ly aIfewv weeks previously. When ister) : He carried out improvements, did the Minister found that an adverse reso- lie not? lution was to be carried by that meeting, Mr. MIONGER: WhNqen the Minister wvis lie made a most mnisericordia appeal to- in Port Bedland he was evidently inter- these pieople, "Nowv I ask you not to sub- viewed, because in the next issue of the mit any resolution; I ask you to allow TWest jlust robe,, we find these words- matters to siand over until my friend the Evidently, by the telegram published MAinister for Works returns from the in the local papers, capital is being North- West, and 'ye will have another made out of the fact that I hold] a conference at Perth and pay the expenses thotisaud-acre block at Kunijuin. anad of Your delegates." How very different tiat I contemiplate purchasing a further tat was from the attitude adopt-od by thousand acres adjoining. No doubt that gent leulan when speaking to the nmy critics, in their desire to cover their people I hav'e the honou r to represent inl own nefarious practices, have taken ad- this Parliament. W~hen lie "'as speaking. vantage of my absence to misrepresent to the Minister's constituents he pro- thle facts. mised them a trip to Perth and to then consider the mnatter again. What was Tilese are the words I am dealing with at thie result of that further consideration? the present moment. I want to know who in the first place hie said, "I am not going attempted to make any references to the to reduce; you have to take this water at nefarious practices of other people? I the price I flx" -there was a terrible lot say they were perfectly justified in saying of the "'I"about him-''and if you will that AVir. Johnson's land transactions were not, you will have to do without it.'' illegal from the start, and have been ''What is more,'' he said, "'Iam going to illegal tip to the present, and the refuse to ratify the passing of a transfer -by the Minister for agreements entered into by the previous Administration in Lands and the altering of the conditions is so contrary to ttese ridiculons instruc- iegard to water supply in close proxim- tions lie issued, that I fail to see how he ity to the main Coolgardie trunk line.'' can adopt any other course than to cause When the settlers of Tanimia told him they were going to have water at hialf-a- the forfeiture of the Minister for Works' block and his conditional purchase. crown and make the Minister carry out Mr. Green: You are trying to draw a the obligations of the previous Adminis- herring across the track. tration, and when the Minister found that big talk onl his side was not going Mr. MIONGER: I wilt deal with the to be received too kindly by that aut- hon. member's railway presently. It was dience, hie knuckled under and within a my pleasure to accompany the Ministers short time after his return to Perth he for Lands and Works to a conference at agreed to reduLce the price by 25 per Tammin in regard to the amending of ceint. the Goldfields Water Supply Bill as Passed last session, and I am going to say Mr. Green: That will not hurt you. [16 Jtna, 1912.]41 471

Mr. MONGER: How different from his her, who is so constant an interjector? Attitude to the constituents of gentlemen In the course of the Attorney General's who occupy seats on my side of the remarks that gentleman said that in the House. previous year there had been in that dis- 11r, 'furvey : More spoils to the vie- trict over 800 acres and er cultivation. I tbrt. wonder if the hon. member, who has spent Mlr. MONO ER: There is another mat- a good deal of his time in that district, -ter of lands administration that I desire has any idea of the results of last year's to congratulate the Minister upon, and harvest. I am going to give those results that is the closing up of the Melbourne to the House, and I hope thait the hon. agency. Poor Western Australia could member who has referred in such glowing not any longer aford to keep a Mel- terius to the great capabilities and the bburvne aigency going, notwithstanding the prospects of the Esperanee country wvill fact that bplendid work was being done bear in mind that in 1912 the quantity of and that hundreds of people had been in- land tinder cultivation, according to the duced to cotfie here through the influence Statistical returns, was barely half what of the genitlemuan in ehatge of that agency. it "as in 1910-11. ,Later on I will imove for the full papers Mr. Green:- You killed it. in regard to the arrangements made by Mr. MONGER: I will shock hon. mem- the Governmenit and the reasons which bers by giving figures as shown in the -actuated themn in closing uip that agency latest returns. I wonder if the hon. in Melbourne. There is another little member for Kalgoorlie has any idea of mnatter that came under my notice the the figures of this great wheat belt with other day. The Lands Department its millions of acres, and which had one are economising on a very big scale, hut of the finest markets that Western Aus- the economy is not being effected in the tralia had to offer at its door, and which electorate of the member for Williams- preferred to send its chaff and its corn Nma'rrogin, but it is in the adjoining eec- away through Esperance and Albanyl I torate;, and it is that, instead of the wonder, I repeat, if he has any idea of agency there being open once a week, the the latest statistical returns of its pro- department has decided that it shall be duiction last season-? I am going to tell the open only once a fortnight. I have lion, member that there were three acres thought this matter out, and the only put in for grain, and the yield from those -conclusion I can come to is that, because three acres, as shown in the statistical re- the member wvho represents the electorate turn, was nil. There were 417 acres under sits on this side of the House, the con- crop for hay, which gave a total yield of rvenience of settlers is to be sacrificed. 201 tons, considerably less than half a ton It is not my intention to deal with the to the acre. Those figures were not faked many items referred to in the Governor's at mny request, and I presume some hon. :Speeeh. Mly principal reason for rising members will say there is a mistake some- -to-night is to make some references to where, but I am giving the latest statisti- certain railways. cal information- as regards the capabilities Mr'N.Lander: Do not mention the Wicke- and the production of Esperance. We are ]3iIi-Merredin line. calmly asked to allow the Government- and wve must allow them to do anything Mr. MONGER: I shall refer to that they think fit-to sanction the expenditure later. I notice that one of the first mea- sures. that is going to be brought up for of £300,000 to build a line of railway to convey 201 tons of hay. -consideration is the Norseman-Esperane line. Mr. Green: What is your authority? MrLI.Green: Hear, bear; the first one Mry. MONGER: The latest statistical *on the sheet. returns, as furnished by the Registrar Mr. MONGER:- I wonde r if the speech General's department. .made by the Attorney General last session IMr. MeDowall: The Statistical Register is still fresh in the mind of the hon. men- or the Monthly Abstract? 472 472[ASSEMBLY.)

Mr. M,%ONGER: I knew some of my moved in the ordinary way. I wrote a friends would not like to hear these little time ago and asked that planis be figures. furnished to me showing the routes now Mr. George: They bave killed the Es- decided upon and the route as recom- perance railway no. mended by the advisory board, and I Mr. MONGER: There is one thing that think even the Premier and the Minister struck me in regard to the reference to for Works will say that wvhen one receives these railways, and that was that there ,a reply such as I received, one is justified was no mention of any kind with regardl in bringing these complaints, which might to the intention of the Government con- 1.erhaps be considered trifling, before the erning the lines already sanctioned, and niotice of Parliament, This is the letter .1 the attitude that has recently been ad- received in reply: -"The maps asked for opted by the Government in altering the showing the sarveyed route of the Quair- routes at the whim of a Minister or of ading-Nunag-in railway are sent here- the party. This appears to tue to be With. I referred the matter of the route more thani the people of Western Anstrn- recommended by the Railway Advisory lia are going to stand too long. Thle Board to the Surveyor General, who says latest matter we have heard of is the seni- that the permission of the Premier is re- otis alteration in the Wong-an Hills-idu- quired before this canl be shown; would lewva line, aii only this afternoon another you please obtain this permission, and place sanctioned the appointment of a plans call then be supplied." Surely select committee to inquire into thle whole members are not supposed to go, cap in of the circumstanlces iii reganrd to that hand, to the Premier and say, "Please, sir, line. allow the drafting department to give me The Premier: Hear, hear. a bit of information which has already Mr. MONGER: I am glad to hear the been public property for a long time, and Premier say hear, hear. How diffelrent is which for weeks and months occupied a his attitude from liat which lie and his pice onl the walls of this Chamber." followers took uip last session when I asked Hon. W. C. Ang-win (Honorary Minis- that a selctl commhittee should be app ~oin led ter) : Whly did you want it, if it was to i nquirec into antother line; there waqs no public property? hreal-, hear, about him then. I come to two Mr. MONGER: I wanted the lithos railwvays tli t are unt iten iloited but which showing the plan of the route as recom- have been vryw considerably interfered mend'ed by the adVisOry board, a very with dutring the administration of the Irc- reasonable request to make, and that was sent Government; I refer in the flirst the reply I got, and J did not fedl dis- place to the Qnairading-Nunag-in line, and posed to ask the Premier to give me per- only the other afternoon, when I asked a mission to aet the hins. Now I am question as to whether the Minister in- going to deal with the question of a rail- tended to place upon the table of the wayv that T believe has received more eon- House the reports which caused the sidcratioin at the hands of tile reO ic of alteration of the route as recom- the district T rep)resent tha n any other mended by the advisory board, I got ]lne of ag.ienl tura1 railway that hiag ever, the reply f anticipated. flint that informa- been before this Chamber. When intro.- tion Nvonld be furnished in the ordinary dueine- a petition last session T ,ef-lred course, if I moved in the usuial way. I briefly to the positon that had been token knewv that would take up a lot of time, and that it might be wveeks before the notice hioned byv Parliament somae lime in De- of motion which I tabled onl the following cemiber. After dealing with the second day would be reached. I certainly think reading speech onl the Bill, and after it would have been a manly and just reply halving dealt with the nuestion as plainly by the Minister for Works to say to the as lay in my power, I made a very strong House that hie would give all the infor- appeal to the Minister, and I said- mation asked for in the question, but that Let the Minister and his collenzies in the future motions would have to be decide upon men of the stamp of Wi) [16 .JUtV, 1912.]47 473

lini Paterson, John Muir, and }Larry for any alteration inl thle Fecommllendatioins ,Johnston to miake the alterations in the or thle Advisory Board is the fact t hat route if any be deemed necessar y. either tilie -Minister or the majority of is Hon. W. C'. Angwin (Honorary Minli- colleagnes, or the Majority of caucuis, have ster) : Have you every contideuce iii John decided that these 100 odd settlers are Muiir!1 goinlg to lbe Sacrificed and inconvenienced M1r. MONGER : Yes.. inl order that they canl vent their spleen H-on, IV. C. Angw11in (Honorary M1ini- onl that one mail-! ster) :Iami pleased to hear it; you1 will MJlr. Lander: They have decided to carry not then object to the Wougan Hlis- out what is laid down inl J1insard. Mullewa route. M\fr. MHONG ER: There was a remarkable Mr. MNONG ER : I wvent onl to say- occuirrence at that gathering. I produced Then iH these gentlemten say "'The cir- a series of plans fromn the Lands otbiee eumistanices have changed, tile conditions shiowing alt thle latest selections of land in thle locality have changed, and not- between \Vickepin and Merredin and be-- withstanding- our earlier report we con- twveen Quairadigand Nuinajin, and a plan sider the route should go in another s-howing the Advisory Board's recommnenid- direction," I shiall be satisfied. atiwjis. Those wvere tile plans as fuirnished Notwithstanding that appeal to tile Mini- Iby the Lands Departmeiit right up to the ster for Works, he took no notice of it, date of ouir departure onl that trip. and hut he was good enough to take several Ihave to compliment the 'Ahinisi er for members of Parliament and myself Works onl having so little confidence inl his IbrouOlgh thle district, anld T was hoping colleague, the Minister for Lands, that. when lie star-ted onl that toui that before iictwitlistaidiiig that the Government had hie camie to a.nyv delinite aind distinct uin- beenl six mion Ilils inl office, he placed 4lerstaildimlg as to what lie was going- to no faith ill tire plans a nd lithios recommenid to Cabiniet hie would have said furnished by that department. A nice "I amj not going to take thle responsibilityv compliment to pay! Yet ipl to that (late. -of any.) alteration of the Advrisory Board's notwithstanding t hat it was four or five recommrendation. becanse I am interested mionths after the passing of tile Bill by this Assembly, lithos inl the district" NT0 othier mian hatl the were furnished show- present Minister for Works wvould have ilig tile route of the railway inifthe position arrogated to liiniself suchi responsible ais recommended by the Advisory Board . duties. and ]. dci not think any other Cabi- and the settlers who selected pamid anl Inl- net amongst the British speaking people creased price owing to the contiguity of woid have allowed anl interested colleagule thle proposed rail-way. During the eourise to be the hole arbiter of so important a of the remarks made byv the 'Minister lie question. During the course of that trip. said, "We have fixed the route Of this rail- onl a festive occasion when wve were treated way' to a point about two miles south of -most royally and( loyalty, aIfter hearing the Korr-ijiti." I may say that tile 'Minister had actual initenitions of the \filnister for been talking a loit about tile mandate from Works. as conveyed to me by the speech Parliamient. and I said, "All I want is that lie m1ade before I had the honour of res- you shall carry oit tile mandate from Par- puonding to the toast- of Parliament. I liatnent: I want you to carry out the couild only come to one conclusion, and secoiid portion of the Schedule of the Act that wV-s that a hundred to a hundred And andl( you will be carry'ing out what I andt fiftyv of the finest settlers in Western Aus- the settlers in this locality require aiid i ralia were going to be sacrificed in order deniand." Remember, the Minister had hat Ministers and their colleagues might distinctlyv statetd that thme Government had rent their spleen onl one individual. When fixed the route at two miles southt of Kor- I mande that remark, the Minister said it rijili. Later onl the acting -Minister told was a cruel and cowarli- - reimark. and me tliat the Government were going to another fellow whol was "Yapping" ait me carry, out within the four points of tile there said "Yes, it is so." I am going- to comp asis the schedules of tile Act passed repeat here to-nighit that the only reason hr Parliament. Iii order to Carry oult what 474 44[A'SSEMBLY.) the actins_ Minister told me, instead of tralia would collapse if he retired from that railway being fixed two miles south that position-I received telegrams from of Korrijin. it is brought round now two settlers, who were very much concerned or three miles north, iii order that the by rile U~nsympalthetic reply of the ultima i/nile of this Bill may be given Minister Ifor Works, asking me to ar- effect to, to within 1o mires of the Merre- range with tile Premier to receive another diin line. deputation. 1 am thankful to the Premier Hon. W. C. Angwin (Honorary Mini- for receiving that deputationl, Whichl, I ster) : ]t is within the schedule of that think, was the mnost influential that ever Act; is it not? waited on a Premier in regard to an Mr. MONGER: I thought tbe hon. agricultural railway, Accompanying me member had( more sense. I am quoting was tile lender of the Opposition and the the definite pledge given to hundreds of late Minister for Works, Mr. Daglish, and settlers that the Government had fixed the I want to read to hon. members what route to a certain point, and I had no tear Mr. Daglish said, because there are some of the balance of the route being misconceptions in regard to this rail- carried out, thus giving effect to the wvay and the attitude adopted by that desires of the majority of the people. gentleman. Mr. Daglish said- But what do I find now? They have de- finitely fixed the rouite north of Korrijin Hle was present, not as a politician, to a point called Quarebin Rock, and the nor as one having any interest in the district. As the result plain showing the route to be taken indi- of the debate cates a direct line from Quarebin Rock to in Parliament when he was Minlister for Nunajin. I ant told that the route Works, his idea was thlat they should recommended by the present 'Minister "on obliterate as far as possible two long his own" is by no means the best as re- deviations in tile line. However, any remarks he gards the grades, and I can assure him- made then, and any instruc- and no one knows it better than hie does- tiolns hie gave as Minister, were always tha t, as regards the land, it will be a cry- to be read and interprete1 as to be ing disgrace to allow an agricultural rail- carried out in accordance with the sche- way to go through one of the worst pieces drile of the Act. He had never imagined of agricultural land in Western Australia. that a railway could be laid down to follow Euclid's definition of a straight The Minister for Wbrks: Your electors line-the shortest distance between two will be pleased to hear that. Mr. MONGER: I am not afraid of my p~oints. There had been no intention onl his part to make one straight lute, but electors. Therefore,' having had that posi- to make approximately, so far as it tive and definite assurance that the route the requirements was fixed to a certain point to carry out- could be done, taking of the district into consideration, two wvhat? To Carry out Some electioneering until pledge, or some electioneering statement straight lines, one from Wickepin it reached cte nmost easterly point at of the Premier to please some particular which the railway would touch and the supplorters of his own that, even if the other thence northwards to the north late Government had carried out the line, of Merredin. One of tile principal ob- if they (the Labour party) were returned jects of the line was to serve the Kum- to power they would pull it up and take minii lpeop~le anti tilose to the east of it from Hedges. Kunlninin. He hlonestly believed, as Mr. O'Loghien: Who said so? the result of the information be ob- Mr. MIONGER: I am maing a state- tained when Minister for Works, that ment. After that trip, notwithstan ding the best line would be along the route that the Minister who accompanied us said laid down by I he Wilson Government that within a week his report would be in .Iuly last, which was to go approxi- presented to Cahinet, anti if it was not carried out there would be another Mini- inately 40 miles south from Merredin, ster for Works-I did make the interjec- and then generally in a south-westerly tion that I did not think Western Aus- direction to Wickepin. [16 JULY, 1912.] 4757

In reply) to that deputation the Premier 30th April I wrote to the Premier as fol- saidl- lows: Ile had particularly made a point of (Some weeks ago a deputation con- not discussing the question of the route sisting of prominent settlers from the- of the railway with the 'Minister for Kumminin district waited upon you in Works, until he had beard the views of regard to the route of the Wickepin- the deputation. Nevertheless, lie did Merredin railway. In reply to that not agree to receive the deputation until deputtowih was supported by the Mr. Johnson consented, because they preseint leader of the Opposition and had made it a rule that questions of the late Minister for Works, you pro- route should be decided by the Minister maised that the decision arrived at by for WVorks once anl Act had been passed 'Cabinet would be communicated to the for the construction of a railway. The deputation through me. MAay I ask if repiresentationis made by the deputation any decision has been arrived at? must necessarily carry weight. He Two days later, onl 2nd May, I received recognised at once that the position was a letter addressed to mie at York, which a very difficult one to deal with. They stated- lad lind a]ll sorts of accusations thrown With reference to your telephonic re- about thle countryv that the line had quest to be supplied with the Cabinet decision been twtisted to suit certain gentlemen, in relation to the route Of tile Wickepin-Merredin railway, I beg to and when they saw t hat five dififerent inform you that it surveys had been made they must be led has beeni decided to make a survey of thle extension to the to th e belief dint influence had been Villiminning-Kondinin line, so as to brought to bear from some quarter. As junction with thle Merredin railway and a result the position -to-day was in a serve the Mt. Arrowsmitli district. tangle. When the nuaps were first shown That wats thle Premier's letter to me, and in Parlianmen t, with a great turn ill the seeing- the absurdity of thle reply, I wrote line towards Mr. Hedge's property, the on thie 2nd M1ar- impression was gained that it was in- In further reference to my letter of tended to serve that property. the 13th ultimo, may 1 ask if your MA~r.flaglish: That was never stated letter of the 29th idem, which only in debate. reached me this morning, is to be read as a reply to same. Thle Premier: It was debated outside To that communication and onl the public platform. It was I have heard noth- ing further, but I take this particulax op- made one of the principal questions of portunity, on behalf of the deputation the elections as to whether the line that waited onl the Premier, of thanking should be straightened up. There was himu for thle courteous manner in which a considerable amount of discussion in he dealt withi ue in the reply he gave to the lobbies. the deputation. In regard to this par- Mr. 'Wilson: That is the trouble. Thle ticular line, I have always appealed, both discussion took place in the lobbies and persoinally and in public, that instead of oil the hustings, but not in the House. the Minister for Works taking upon him- self the responsibility of settling so vexed After going a little further, the Premer a question, the advisory board should be stated that the matter would be given again sent out to report, and I promised careful consideration and that the deputa- that any recommendation they made, tion would be advised through me in due whether it was a point to the east or a give it my course. I want to showv now the courtesy point to the west, I would best support. But no: what do wre find? extended to us on this side of the House The Minister pays a trip to the district, by the gentleman who runs the Premier's but evidently has Is recommendation in department. The information was given his pocket before lie sets out, and he to the Press on the 24th April. On the makes a recommendation, and on that 476 476[ASSEMBLY.]

Cabinet follow like a lot of sheep to the when giving evidence before it. It was fold, and they say, "We will do what the no use trying here. Last September when Minister for Works has asked us to do." Ipresented a petition signed by practi- 1 want more than that: I -want more in- cally all the settlers iii that locality, with formation than that; I want to know that the exceptiont of Mr. Hedges and his the Minister has some reliable data to I artuers, whose nasmes were omitted, not give us that made him make the recom- one miembeir on the Government side sup- mendation that hie made. I want to know lported the petition. It is no use our ask- what engineers and what other land ex- ig- for any consideration from them. I perts hie has asked for an expression of can only' hope that the select committee, 6pinion; and I say that if hie has not whichi I believe will be app-ointed in an- got other informnation than that which lie other place, will subject the Mlinister to had framed in his own mind before the that cross-examination lie is desering of. last election, he has done a most unfair There is only one other matter I desire act in making the recommendation; lie has. to make a reference to, and that is the I feel certain that the good sense of the Premier's diesire and intention to render people of Western Australia. is not going finncial and other assistance to thle to allow a Minister to carry out on his Trades Hall. I understand that the Pre- own works contrary to Ihie advice of the mier said thiat any promise lie made would proper qualified officers of the Crown. If he subject to the consent of Parliament. the "Minister for Works delegates to him- I have a great opuioin of unions, but I do self these powers what ood are we in not like [he ideas of some of those rabid Parliament? We might juist as well say unionists that only those belonging to "Here. Mr. Minister for Works, draw their org-anisaliuns shall receive any Con- yonr pencil along this, and we will h'.ild -ideration. In fact, for their own sakeF. a line of railway where you want it." I I think, they would be very sorry if it say in conclusion on this point, that a were given effect to. It may he fresh More unsavonry piece of political jobbery in the minds of some of those I have re- has never been perpetrated in thie history fenred to as being rabid uinionists that a of Responsible Government; and I say telegramn appeared a little rie ago, which there is no other Cabinet that would allow sa id(- a Minister to -o about the country flout- Mr. Fisher, when asked his opinion ing, "I am going to do this;- I am going of the decision of the Broken HillI to tell Cabinet this and that and th~e Carriers' Union to ad-mit Afghans uin- other; if they do not do it there will be der certain conditions, said lie lre- another Minister for Works-;" as much as suimed the mien were camel drivers, and to say. "I know they cannot do without the union had good reasons for its de- m ,y valuable services. and I am going to cision. He dlid not desire to say any- carry out not what I think is in the best thing, about the policy of admitting- interests of the people," because he must coloured mii as unionists, nor whether k-now that the Government's advisers will the action of the union conflicted with advise in a niore-well-nbiassed man- flic White-Australia policy. ner than hie would himself- I pr-CSLme that if these Afghans who ain Mr. Heitmann : You must remember affiliated with the Broken Hill carriers, that the previous Government had five w-ere to comie to take up their- residence lines surveyed. in that direction. in Perth, they would soonm become afflii- Mr. MONGER: And the last one was ated with the Trades Hall in Perth : an(i the best; not the first one. I may perhaps T slippose the nest thing, we would see have laboured the question, but i am glad would be communications goingu ouit to to know that notice has been given in Bus Mahornmed or others of that ilk ad- .another place for the appointment of a dressed "Dear Comrade." At thie same select Committee to inquire into this. I time as that famous expression of opin- would like to be upon that select com- ion from Mr. Fisher. in which lie states mittee to subject the Minister for Works, that the Trades Hall can do no wrong, to the cross-examnination lie should get there was an article in the I~est Ausira- (16 Juon', 1912.]47 477 lian, headed "Chinese not wanted as un- are not naturalised British subjects, ionists." The member for Subiaco was in though as far as the selection ballot goes the chair. The article proceeds- they have the same power as the hon. mem- The chairman said he could not deal ber. with the question from the standpoint Mr. Heitmiann : What is wrong with the of lawv for the simple reason that he italianlsq "'as not a lawyer, but they could only Mr. MO0NGER: I have no fault to find consider their position if the law comn- with them, bitt I say that no manl should 1oiled them to take Asintics into their have the powver to returni a member to union s. Parliament who is not qualified to have a We see that in Broken Bill they had vote under the laws of our country for allowed thorn. It seems as if we are get- thast Parliament. Hon. INWC. Angwin (Honorary Mlini- tia petty close to it in Western Aus- ster) : How could they return a manl to Sonic of [ihe unions had rules which ex- Parliament when they have no votes? pressly stated that onlyv white men Mr. MNONGER : The Honorary Mini- Should be periided to join their raniks. ster knows very well that every Ski or A. voice: Supposing the Chinese form lag-o onl the goldfields belongs to a union, themselves in to a sepa rate union in the and that they, all have votes onl the selec- hotel andl restau ranmt industry and apply tion of a can didate. for afifiliat ion wvith our council. (La ugh- Hon. AN. C. Angwin (Honorary Mini- tot'.) Mr. Henshaw: There is at prop)osi- ster) : The selection does not return a tion in thte Carpenters' Union from a al to Parliament. Chinaman. (Laughter.) The council Mr, M,%fONGER : Invariably it does on finally decided to recommend all unions the goldfields. not to admit into their ranks men of 1r. 'fatvlor: Howv do you arrange for Asiatic extraction. the votes of die cooks at the Weld Club! Now, this is what 1 wvant to impress onl Air. MONGER: 'They are not natural- these rabid friends of mine- ised, andl have no vote. I have dealt wit One of die lady delegates said it was only one or two matters in the Govern,- a delicate position to deal with, be- or's Speech, a ad onl the many ottier mat- cause there were some half-caste Chinese rers referred to I shall have moy op~por- who, she regretted to say, wereC superior tunity later on. to white people. Mrt. S. STUBBS (Wagin) : A number 'The moment the funds of the people of of hon. gentlemen have addressed them- for an WVestern Australia are to be used selves to the Address-in-reply, and several il legitima to purpose of this kind, even to of them have stated that they) regret that allow debates of that sort, where a womanl SO much time wvas wasted in speaking- to belonging to one of the lady unions of the Address-in-reply. Most of them, in this State describes the half-caste China- the conurse of their remarks, camne to the manl as better than some of the gentlemen matters that affect them most: the agricul- stie comes into contact with-the moment tural members speaking from an, agricul- the funds of the State are to he utilised tural point of view, and the golclfields in that manlier, the Government are not members invariably spending most of their carry'ing out their duties in dealing in a time on matters relating to mining. I. do fair and reasonable way. not think t 1ev wvere to bla me. I. hope t hat Mr. O'Loghlen: Would you allow the my remarks will not he misconst rued, Afghan farmers in Your district to Join becanse although I represent an a9gricul- the Farmiers' and Settlers' Association? tural industry,' I listened with great in- Mr. MONGER: There are menl sitting terest to the remarks that fell to-night onl the Government side of the House from the Minister for Mines. I maintain who owe their position in this Parliament that the mining industry in this State is to being selected by the flago and the Ski practically only in its infancy, and I gentlemen who belong to their unions but hope that whatever Government ire in 478 478[ASSEMBLY.) power the industry will receive very gene- we had fewer personalities brought into rous tieatmentttat their hnds; because politics it would be better for the State mining gave this State its first start in as a whole. During my occupancy of a life, and had it not been for the mining seat in Parliament it will be my intention, industry our population would not have both inside and outside the House, to re- been nearly as great as it is to-day. Since frain from making use of language which the opening of Parliament I have listened can be well done without, but mwhich I re- with great respect to views expressed by gret to say is very often used in Parlia- members on (he Government side of the ment. House, and to-night one or two have Mr. SPEAKER: That is a reflection voiced the opinion that we onl this side on Parliament. are to be pitied. I was returned by a very Mr. S. STUBBS: It may be, but if I large majority to represent the Wag-in have transgressed the rules of the House -electorate on the Liberal side. I do and am called upon to stop, I will do so; not require any sympathy from the lion. because 1 have no intention of reflecting gentlemen who thought that our side, be- on Parliament. But I do hold that very ing so small in numbers,, was in need of often things are said which should tiot be pity. I believe that the Liberal side, al- said. and that it would be very much though temporarily disabled as regards better if people were to guard their numbers in Parliament, will yet prove tongues in making insinuations concerning to the country that they have been a valu- the conduct of members, of both sides of able adjunct to the political life of the the House for that matter; because in -State aiid have done exceedingly good dealing with questions concerning past work in (he past. Notwithstanding that, actions remarks are hurled from the I have listened, this session and last ses- Liberal side to the Labour side and vice -sion, to charges against lion. members on versa. But, having- been elected to reprie- this side, and particularly two gentlemen sent Wagin in the Liberal interest. I de- of our party here, wvho seem to have raised sire in mny criticism of the Speech delivered the ire of a number of members seated on by His Excellency, and which was placed the Ministerial side. The leader of the in his hands by his advisers, to sa 'y that Opposition and the late Minister for Lands there are several planks which I think seem to have come in for an extra, share must commenC~d themselves to [lie rnaloflty of blame in connection with the running of the electors. Seeing that tHe Govern- of the country; but I venture to say that ment were returned by so large a ma- these two gentlemen have done really jority it is, I think, the dutty of the Lib- -splendid service for the State, and that the erals to see that the Government get a ,charges which have been levelled against fair ebanee to carry out the programme them are a little bit over the fence. I do which they map)ped out last October. At not think it is right or fair for members the same time, I reserve the right to say .of Parlianleut to slangwang one another that in iespet to any measures- which T as has been done in this Parliament dur- think are not in the best interests (of my ing the past few years. In mny opinion onistituenits and the State as a whole, I better legislation would be placed upon should be wvanting in my duty if I did the statute-hook if fewer personalities were not oppose theni. The fitst item I would indulged in. It appears to me that a pub- like to touch uipon in His Excellency's lic mati, when hie rises to the position of Speech is that of land settlement. The a Minister of the Crown, is looked upon M1inister for Lands made no secret on the by a number of people as somebody to be hustings of his belief that the land man- bated. Many who have attained to that agement of Mr. M11itchell was not a good position have Sacrificed the best years of one. their lives to the State, and the pay they would have received had they devoted that [Thre Deputy Speaker took the Chnir.1 time to their own private affairs would have been very much greater than any re- Shortly before assumning offee the M3inis- turn they can expect from the State. If ter for Lands issned a manifesto which [16 Jurs, 1912.]49 479, was published in the columns of the Wlest It was a mistake, and I can assure hon. Australan, and which, if he had thought members that the sending Of People Out it out more carefully, would not have been onl the land 20 or 40 miles away from ex- printed in the form it was. The members isting railways was a big undertaking for on the Ministerial side of the House have tile hundreds of families who have gone declared it was the bad season that caused out there. If they had not hadl assistance the unrest in financial circles in connec- from the Agricultural Bank and the store- tion with thle land settlement of Western keepers they Would never have been able Australia. As a business man of a good to stay there. many years standing I can assure the The Premier: Who sent them out? House that the effect of the bad, season Mr. S. STTUBBS: You are doing so. was known to nine out of every ten busi- now. ness men in the State before the 18th The Premier: No. October, and that when the regulation Mr. S. STUBBS: I understand from was issued the financial institutions shut the Speech flint anl immense area of lad tip like so miany oysters. They called in hans been surveyed and is now open for advanced,. which, in my opinion mioney select ion.- would have remained o"l their books had The Premier: No, a fair amount of it it not been for the fear flint certain lands is withheld from selection until reason- wvere liable to forfeiture. Nowv it was the able facilities have been provided. laudable desire of the late Government to settle the people onl the land, and I believe Mr. S. STUBBS: Yet I say with all the same desire exists in the breasts of respect to the Premier that if we send the present Administration. But a great people onl the land, even if it be only fear entered the hearts of those wvho had fifteen miles away, and they are bona fie the administration of financial institutions settlers, the best thing the country could of Western Australia, when regulattions do would be to charge them no rent at came out to the effect that land taken up allt for the first five years, provided they under certain conditions would be liable put the equivalent of rent into the land to forfeiture if those conditions were not in the shape of improvements. The pro- complied with. ducer is the man we wVanmt onl the land, and the paltry few shillings we get from him Hon. W. C. Ang-win (Honorary Minis- for the first five years would' be better ter) : Why should they not he? spent onl imp~roveiments to his holding. In Mr. S. STUJBBS: I would like to say my opinion the land reg-ulations issued by that, provided every mnan and woman in the Minister for Lands had a most disas- Western Ausiralia took up land legiti- trons effect, for thle reason that the finan- specified conditions miately. even if the cial institutions naturally wanted to know were not carried out in their entiretyv the from the storekeeper whether the men on State would not be a loser. the land, and on their books, had com- Haot. W. C. Angwin (Honorary Minis- plied with thle whole of the conditions ter) :Then you believe in violating agree- under which they had taken up the land. nients? I must confess I am speaking for 09 out Nr. S. STUBBS: If I had anything, to of every 100 business people of the State, do with the present Government I would when I say it never entered the heads of endeavour to get them not to sell the land one of these business men that forfeiture at 22s. 6d. per acre. I maintain that it would ever be thought of. does not make the slightest difference to The Premier: What sort of a farmer- the State whether 5s. or 10s. per acre, or wvould hie be, if, being unable to comply nothing at all, be charged for the land, with tile conditions, he took stores from provided the land is settled and taken up. the storekeeper? The Premier: Who raised the price Mr. S. STLUBBS: It was this thought from 5s. to 22s.9 that agitated their minds: suppose a man, Mr. S. STUBBS: Whatever Govern- through sickness, desired to transfer his. ment did it, they were wrong in doing so. land,. The regulaitions issued by the Mini- 480 480[ASSEMBLY.] islet on the t. th October stated that cer- Mr. S. STUBBS: The cry has been taminiprove-enis must be effected, or a going throughout the world that we certain lengthl of time must elapse, before wanted settlers and were practically giv- the land would be allowed to be trans- ing away land, and suddenly this regula- ferred. tion appears which causes a feeling of Mr. Heitmnion: Provision was made for unrest amiong the financial institutions. special ci rcumstances. That is w%%here I join issue with the pre- Mr. S. STUIIBS: Yes, that is all very sent Government. welL. The idea of thie Mlinister for Lands Mr. O'Loghlen: Has it i-eta rded land "as a golod one, namnelyv, to stop traffick- settlement in Your district? ing in laud. I honour him for that, but 'Mr. S. -STUBBS: To a certain extent, there was another way of trapping the yes, and it caused such a feeling of tin- manl who was then mentioned, that is, the rest that the baniks were calling up over- St. George's-terrace land speculator. I drafts where they were not absolutely must say I have never met him, this land sure that the conditions bad been carried speculator, in my district. Every man, as out. far as I knosi, who is settled there, took Mr, O'Loghleu: I heard you say at a up his land under conditional purchase, deputation that land settlement wvas or purchased his farm lcgitimately; there- taking place with great rapidity. fore the harm done in my district I am AMr. S. STUBBS: I maintain that the certain cannot be laid at the door of the Minister for Lands' famuous regulation bad season. The financial institutions issued on the 18th October did a great which were lending money freely for deal of harmn to land settlement in AWes:- months and months prior to last election evi Australia. The Governor's Speech stopped suddenly. also stated that 60 odd surveyors were in Mr. Thomas: They had been onl a finan- the field. The member for York stated cial drunk and decided to sober up. to-day that a question wvas answered in M-r. S. STUBBS: No, I do not agree anioth~er place to the effect that there were with that. 48. 1 reside in a town where two or did theyv cease? Mr. Heitinn: Win- three sur-veyors who have been working 'Mr. S. STUBBS:- Because of the regu- for the Government have suddenly found lations. which the Minister for Lands pub- that their work is done, and one, at all lished. events, has nothing in ]land at all. Mr. Hoitinanin : If they lend monley would like to know what is g'oing to hap)- they must get it out of the produce. pen iii another twelve 01' eightgen mouths Mr,. S. STUBBRS: But supposing a if the land settlement that members hope muan wanted to sell his land to a neighbour for does not take place, and what is to onl account of it not being large enough, become of the thousands of people we or for somne other reason, the banks were hope to see settled in the State- under the impression that a transfer The Minister for Lands: Do you wish would not be put through. us to put the people away on the uncer- .Mr. Heitmann: What difference would taini limits of rainfall? that make to the bank; they had their I\Ir.' S' S TUBBS:- No, but I point out security and that security was what could unless we go on surveying and getting be produced fi-nm the soil. data ready for- tie settlers whomn we holre Mr. S. STUBBS: If the conditions will arrive in two or three years, the wovlc were not complied with, the land was will he all behind and we -will not be able liable to forfeiture, and it w-as the duty to settle peolple as we decsire. If we are of business men to see that the farmer reducing our surveyors from 60 to 43, had the improvemlents uip to date as they perhaps in six months they- will number feared that otherwise the land would he only 15 or 20, and how will we con tinue forfeited. the work of settling the people on these The Minister for Lands: That has ex- millions of acres of land which we are isted since 1906. told we have? It appears to be a short- [10 JULY, 1932.] 4818 sighted policy if the Government are re- Mr. S. STUBBS: The land that the ducing the number of surveyors in the Premier means, I take it, is that worth field. £7 or £8 an acre, and there is plenty of The Minister for Lands: It canl that around York and Beverley. only be done by putting them out where The Premier: Yes, until we want to you constantly assure uts land should not buy it. be thrown open owing to the risk of IMr. S. STUBBS: I am earnest in my failure. desire to see stopped trafficking in laud Mr. S. STUTBBS: Do I understand that by persons whose only desire is to fleece all the available agricultural lands worth the legitimate former, but the Government taking uip under conditional purchase for have made a big mistake. Whether they agricultural purposes are finishedY believe me or not, I cannot help it. The Minister for Lands; Not all. The financoial institutions of this State Mr. S5. STIUVBS: Then why not put begani to look with suspicion on these the surve yors out in areas where there is regulations, and 1 confess that as a busi- 'all assulred rainfall? ness manl, having transactions with huni- The 'Minister for Lands: There are not dreds of fariners every year, I never asked the samne large areas of unsurveyed coun- them. whlether all the conditions under try in the good rainfall line now as there which they took up their laud were actu- were, You cannot go onl surveying and a lly complied with, because I thought any have the land still unsurveyed. sensible Oovernment would not issue re- Mr. S. STUBBS: I understand that gulations such as wvere issued and which only five per cent, of the land has been caused such unrest among business people alienated from the Crown. and the associated banks. The Premier: Do not forget to add The Premier: As a business man, have wlit is in process of alienation, that is you suffered from that regulation up to far more than five per cent. dIate?9 + Mr S. STUBB'S: It seems we still have '-It. S. STUBBS: I believe I have. large areas of land in assured rainfall 'Uhe Premier: You believe, you ought areas, and I repeat that I agree that to knowv. people should not be sent out on to laud Mv. S. STUBBS: I am certain I have -where the rainfall is uncertain and where iii this respect: The season being a bad it is more than -15 or 20 miles from anl one, I had to give a large amount of existing or proposed railway line. credit to farmers, and in the fear that Mr. Taylor: There are plenty of Crown somte of the farmers might not care to lands still within the rainfall area to be remain on their holdings if they bad selected. another bad season, and I would be -Art. S. STUBS: I should say tens oEf saddled wvith a big lot of land which I thousands of acres. could not carry and for which the banks The Premier: Neither of you seems to would -not finlance me even if the regula- be very certain. tions would. allow me to hold it all, IMr% S. STUBBS: It is a poor look-out The Minister for Lands: Do you think for the policy we expect to see adopted the baniks would have lent money if there if the Premiier does nlot ki',Nvw. No man had been another bad season? should take uip less than a thousand acres, and I do not think two thousand is too Mr. S. STUBBS: I believe a majority much for a family to make a living on. of the financial institutions would have The Premier: It depends where it is stood by the farmers to a certain extent situated. and the storekeepers would have done so) Mr. S. STUBBS: I agree, but most of to a greater extent. the land of the best quality in the egri- The Premier: The banks have never cultural areas has been taken up for 15 stood behind the people when there has or 20 years. been a bad season. The Premier: Then what are we going Mr. S. STUBBS: In the Wagin district to survey now? the banks have stood by the people well. 482 482ASSEMBLY.]

The Premier: The banks take less risk Alr. S. STUBBS: No, but the money than anybody. has been spent and the cost of carrying- Mr. S. STUBBS: I am glad to say I that water would. have built a railway. believe the Minister has not refused a Mr. O'Loghilen: How could the Gov- legitimate transfer. It would have been ernmuent tell what time the drought would quite sufficient to look through every last?4 transfer in the Lands Department and Mr~. S. STUBBS: The quality of the make a proper inquiry to see if it were land is such that settlers have been there legitimate or not. That would have been for 40 years and have carted their pro- sufficient instead of frightening peopole by duce 17 miles to the railway without a that famous manifesto on the 158th murmiur. They hove been told that the October. line would be built, but uip to the present that hats never been done. Certainly Par- Mr. George: Infamous, I think. liament two Years ago passed a loan auth- Air. S. STUBBS: The past season was orisation for the construction of a por- a bad one for everybody and in this con- tion of that line and the suplply of mater- neetion I give great credit to the Govern- ial, and the Premier in paying a visit to ment for the way they tackled the water that part of the State recently, traversed difficulty in the dry areas. In several the district I am speaking of, and pub- instances I know farmers were at their licly declared that hie could not understand wits ends for water for their families why it had been allowed to remain with- and stock, and in every instance which out a railway for so many years, and he I know was brought uinder the notice of promised to !bring in a Bill this session. the Government, steps were immediately I congratulate the Premier on carrying taken to serve these settlers with water, out the promise he made to a large and and in many cases at such a low rate that representative gathering of farmers who great credit must be given to the Gov- met him at the Arthur River a few weeks ernment for that action. I would, be want- ago. The building of that line will save ig in my duty if 1, in criticising the the Government, in the case of another Government, did not give them credit for dry season, thousands of pounds. the work they did iii supplying water Hon. W. C. Augwin (Honorary Mlin- in. the Great Southern district. ister) : That is another charge against the Mrr. Underwood: Come right over here late Government. and bring your chair. Mr. S. STU'BBS: They 'nay not have. promised this particular one, but they Mr. S. STUBBS: 1 have no desire to carried out a great many other railways. do that. One point, however, has strucrk I would, however, again criticise the pres- me forcibly; the Government have spent ent Goverument for saying that they hundreds of pounds a. wecek in carrying could only build 200 miles of railway an- water along the Great Southern railway, nually. If they are not able to buildT and, within seventeen miles of Wagin more, why not call tenders for the con- westwvard there are sheets of water a struction of others; -why not build 500 couple of miles long, 17 chains in width, miles of railways annually9 It Could be and varying in depth to 30 feet, -which proved to the satisfaction of any Govern- would supply the -whole of the residents lwent, if they could spae the time to have from Beverley to Albany if we had no a look at these districts, that a vast am- rain- for two years. floes iiot it seem ex- ount of splendid country has in the past traordinary that the Government have been entirely neglected. The Labour Gay- spent five or six hundredI pounds a week emninent who were in power several years since last November to carry water hun- agro might just as easily he charged with dreds of miles along the Great Southern neglecting this country as the late Gov- line when water is available within 17 ernmient. 'What I want to emphasise is miles of Wauin 9 that it seems a pity that in a young coun- Mr. O'Loghlen: There is no railway try like this we are limiting our- railway there. construction to 200 miles a9 year. I take [16 JutY, 1012;]18 483 it that the party in power do not desire 'to that the land is cut up into fair-sized hold- :see contracts let for railwvay construction, ings and sold, not leased. 1 do not think but if they cannot build more than 200 the Government are sincere with regard miles annually, surely we should goaout- to the iioiii-alienation of Crown lands. I .side and give others the opportunity of notice that there is no mention of it in -doing some of this work. the Governor's Speech and I hope we Mr. Thomas: The 200 miles annually shall not hear any more about it. At is more than other Governments ever dlid. pjresen~t the Government will lime suffi- Ifr. S. STUBBS: I maintain that the cient work to do to prevent the people ,greater number of miles of railways that who arc now onl the land from are constructed in a young country like leaving it, and also to carry out .this, the better it wvill be for the State, those planks of their platform which they Aind we should remember also that our mentioned on the husting-s and leave the experience is that railways can be con- jion-alienation of Crowvn lands for some structed for £.1,500 per mile, while it costs future occasion. The purchase of steama- nearly £1,000 per mile to make roads. ers has exercised the minds of many mem- 'Undoubtedly, therefore, railway construc- bers of Parliament and a big majority of lion is chenaper, and if the Government the people of the State. I do not knowv wvill submit several lines of railways over where the Government got their data from and above those mentioned in the~ Gor- which caused them to think that the bny- 'ernols Speech, I will do my atmost to ing of steamers and trading in the North- -assist in passing them, provided, of W~est was going to bring down the price course, that they are put in hand without of meat. I1 was under the impression, as a business man, that the price of com- -delay and there is no dilly-dallying over their construction. That is alt I have to modities was regulated by the law of sup- ply and demand. Recently say with rega rd to agricultural lines. a prominent butcher in town was asked by me the Hon. W. C. Angwin (Honorary Minis- price of beef and lie told me that hie could ter) : If you read thle Governor's Speech sell it at 6d. per p)ounfd. you will find that three hundred miles of railways were constructed last year. Mkr. Thomas: It has fallen already. Mr. S. STUBBS: Yes, and most of Mr. S. STUBBS: Ilam speaking of a them were built by contract, and if the few weeks ago, before the question of the present Government called tenders they purchase of steamers was mentioned. I could easily build six hundred miles anu- said to him that it seemed to me that it ally. Why not go on with these railways! was not an outrageous price. A rep~resen- 'There is no justification for delaying their tative of a butchering firm also told me if construction. With regard to that por- T could let him have 500 fat sheep) weigh- tion of the Governor's Speech dealing ing 60 lbs., he would give me £1I a head with irrigation, I commend the Govern- for them, and if they weighed 65 or 70 ment for the proposed huge scheme, the lbs. hie would give me 22s. per head. Can object of which will be to supply water anyone tell me that the offer of that price for the purpose of intense culture. it was duie to the existence of a combine in -seemas to me a great pity that so mutch flie North-West? A local butcher at money is sent out of the State for Narrogin has for some months been im- dairy produce. One has only to go potting his live beef from South Austra- down to the South-West to see the beau- lia, and he told me that the cattle from tiful country' there, and to learn that all the North-West would not stand being it requires is water. T. believe lucerne brought down in the hot season, and I and fodder plants can be cultivated just suppose he was right. I am not holding as well, and quite as good q~ return secured a brief for any firm or combination of as is obtained in the Eastern States. All butchiers, and, if they have raised the that is required is anl energetic Minister price of beef in the manner in which it and competent staff of engineers to see is said they have done, I am glad tile Gov- that the water scheme is carried out and ernment are trying to break it dtown, but, 484 484ASSEMBLY.] as a business man, I have yet to learn affected by seasons and the quiantity of that the Government have inquired suffi- fat stock available. In certain seasons ciently into the meat question and the it is possible to bring down Kimberley runninhlg of steamers in the North-West to stock at a fair price, but there are other enable therr to arrive at the conclusion seasons when cattle will not travel. I that that line of steamers will have the understand that the reason that actuated effect of reducing the price of meat. the Government in running steamers is Hon. W. 0. Angwin (Honorary Mlinis- that they allege that a comubine of but- ter) :You have not inquired into it if you chiers and ltnstoralists is keeping up the said you paid 6id. per pound. price of meat. Mr. S. STUBBS: I can produce an in- Mr. Heitmaunn The Government al- voice to show that I bought it for 6d. a lege we are paying too mueh for macat. pound, and it was beautiful meat too. Mr. S. STU.BBS: I maintain that the Air. Lander: It ought to be possible to present price of beef to-day is not due to buy North-West beef at 3d. what the Government allege, and that the Mir. S. STUBBS: If the hion. member steamers will iiot have the effect which goes to-morrow morning to a butcher's is anticipated. The dry seasons in the shop) that I can take him to, I can show North-W'est districts have helped to in- him exceedingly good beef which is being crease the price of meat and to make it sold at 5d. a pound. I suppose lion. mem- ais dear as it has been this year. bers will say that this is due to the pur- The Premier :The season has been chase of steamerfts by tile Government, all righit in the Kinlberleys. That is ridiculous nonsense. I would like Mr. B. J. Stubbs: Hlas the lion, mem- to tell the Honorary Minister that ever ber read titemecat commission's report? since 1 can remember, and I was born in Mr. S. STI'BBS: Yes. the Warnambool district of Victoria E~r. B. J. Stubbs: Do you not think where cattle and shbeep are grown, that i here was a econbination V certain parts of a bullock are worth 3d. MAtr.S, STUBB3S : But that was two andl 4d. a pouind more than the other or three years ago. parts. Even in New South Wales one The Premier :And they have strength- must pay 2d. and 3d. a pound more for cued since then. rump steak than for an ordinary joint. T desire to see cheap meat for the people, Mr. S. STUBBS: From the informa- tioni I have had from the Press and from but I have yet to learn that the running of steamers will have any appreciable lion, members who ought to know, there, is no mieat ring, and effect on it. On the contrary, I have every I believe that cer- reason to believe, that if proper accounts tain butchers and pastoralists have lost thousands are kept in connection with the running of pounds for several1 years of these steamers, we will find if the price running in connection with the meat in- of meat is brought down even to one ha f- dust ry. penny per pound extra taxation will have Mr. Green : And yet they keep go- to be imposed to assist in the upkeep of Jin g. the steamers. Mr. S. STUPJBS : I hiave had twvo Hon. IV. C. Angwin (Honorary Min- or three bad seasons in Wa-in but I have ister) -Is that what you are hoping will niot been discouraged; in fact, thle Whole he the remiat? oif my' capital is in jeopardy at the pre- Mr.- R. STUBBS -That is what you sent moment, but I do not carry ray heart will find will he I he result. I hionestly on my) shirt cuffs. Hoa. members seem and truth fully heplieve that the running of to think that if a business man has two theze steamers will be a costly affiri and or three bad seasons he abandons the will not have tine effect that the Premier business. and his Governmnent anticipate. The Gov- The Premier :The big men in the ernmnent have not gone deeply- enioughl meat ring ha-ve not lost money during into this question. The price of meat is the last few years. [16 JuL~Y, 1012.]48 485

Mr. S. STUBBS :Yuill & Company The Premier: You would not bring ar- are alleged to have lost £30,000 or guments against your own pledges. £40,000 pounds in this State. Air. S. STUBBS: No, I am not going Mir. Green : What a lot of money against my own pledges. they must have made before that. The Premier: But you pledged yourself Mr. S. STUBBS : The company dial to do t his. not make the money here; they made it Mr. S. STUJBBS: No. in other States. The Premier: Your leader pledged you Mr. B. J. Stubbs The ring was too then; be said he would buy a steamer. powverful for them. Air. Wisdom: But hie qualified it. Mr. S. STLUSBS They had the best The Premier: No, lie (lid not qualify it; show of meat in their shop that was to hie said lie would put on a steamer. be seen in the city; in fact their win- The DEPUTY SPEAKER; Order! dows at all times would have done credit Mir. S. STUBBS: Whether the Liberal to ally country. Government promised to do it or not, The Premier: While they were getting even if they had proposed to undertake the meat from the South they were allt this enterprise I would still stand up iii right. [ihe House and say it should have been Mr. S. STUTBBS : If Yuill & Co. (lid done by Parliament and not by them. not lose money why was it necessary The Premier: You should look through their records; they have been buying sta- for them to close tip? And, if they were uip against the mecat ring, whky was the tions which Parliament has not been asked to approve yet. price of meat not reduced? Mri. S. STUBBS: I desire to say that The Minister for Works :Yuill & I am entirely in accord with the Govern- Company did reduce the price of meat; ment policy in regard to education. If very slighitly, I admit. any, body of public servants are deserving MAr. S. STUBBS : I am trying to of assistance at the hands of the Govern- prove that the State is 'lot undertaking ment and Parliament they are the men a profitable enterprise in entering- into the and women wvho are endeavouring to teach meat trade in the North-West. the young people of this State. To one The Premier : All we propose to do travelling through the agricultural dis- is to run steamers to bring downi stock. tricts-and I suppose it applies on the Will you tell me why the people who goldfields with equal force-the disadvan- are doing so well wvant to get out all of tages these men and women work uadei' at sudden and are falling over them- are patent at once. Their work deserves selves? the highest praise that the Legislature can Mr. S. STLUBBS Many of the give them, and that is by giving themt the people who are said to make so much best possible pay for the services they money are interested in stations and in render to this State. In conclusion, may other properties and they make their I again say that I hope the season will be money in that way. At any rate, I con- a prosperous one and that the Govern- tend that the Government will not at- met will not have a very big deficit, be- tain the object they have in view by cause if we have R big season I feel sure running steamers on the North-West that the present deficit will be wiped out. coast. I am perfectly right in saying I maintain thatt in a youing country like that there was no violent hurry for the this we could not expect to have a large Government to rush in and buy steamers surplus at the end of a year such as we on the eve of the opening of Parliament, have just experienced. The Government and I maintain that an expenditure of have had a hard row to hoe, I admit, in hundreds of thousands of pounds, such taking office at such an inopportune time as this will amount to, should have been for thlem as regards the season, because brought before Parliament and facts and if ever there was a bad season in the aigri- figures put forward to show that the cultural districts of Western Australia it Government are on right lines. wvas the last one. The Government have 486 486[COUNCIL.), done good work in connection- with water which 31r. -Sopamers mnoved for .the -ap- supplies and many other thing-s to help pointiment. of a select committee to en- the settler on the land, and I hope that qunire into the Wongan Hills-Mfullewa rail- the Minister for Lands, in his zeal to pro- way, no authority was given to the corn- tect the public from land speculators, will muittee to adjourn from place to p~lace. not desire'to see those men who arc on I beg- to more- the land lose their holdings, or forfeit That the Comm~ittee appointed by this their land if they do not omply strictly honourable House yesterday, to enquire ,with every provision laid down in the into the Wongan Hills-Mufdletro rail- Act. way, be authorised to adjourn from On motion by --\r. Munsie, debate ad- ploec to place. The PRESIDENT: When I put the joun ed. motioii to thle House I included these houise tidljou rned at 10.23 p~pm. words "fronm place to place," butt they were not onl the p~aper thlat was handed to thle Clerk. Question put hid passed.

S UPP bY-MIfiNIS'r ElIIAL STATE MBDNT. The COLOMiAL SECRETARY (lion. lecgislative Council. J. 1M. Drew) -. [ wish to make a state- Wednesday, 17th July, 1912, niunt for the informnation of lion. mem- hers so that they may not be taken aix- Papers presented...... 486 awares. I. propose to hold a sitting of Mo.tion : Woen Rils.Mullewa Railway Select the House to-morrow in order to intro- Corn., extended rowere ...... 48 Supply,, Ministeril statement...... 486 duce at Supply Bill, and I desire that it Questions : Fremautle Dock, cement 487 Legisla~tive Council Electoral Rolls ...... 487 shall be Ipassed through all its stages to- State Stisiunship Services------4q7 morroW. Workers' flames...... 487 Address-in-Repl, segth day, conclusion .. 487 Hon. M. L. Moss: Cannot you introduce it to-day 7 Tie PRESIDENT took the Chair at The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Con- 4.30 p.m., and rad prayers. sequently, I think I should niotify members of the House beforehand. The abject of the Bill is to enable advances to be legally PAPERS PRESENTED. made to departments to pay salaries and By the Colonial Secretary: 1, Public wages per medium of field orders, and Works Act, 1002; by-laws regulating also to make payments on behalf of other traffic over the North Frernanile High Governments as requested, including the Level Bridge. 2, Roads Act. 1902. Special H-ome Government, such as the payment by-law of the Black Range Road Boarid. of Imperial pensions. Previously, such 3, Annual report on Prisons for year end- consent has never been obtained by our ing 31st December, 1911. 4, Phan show- predecessors, they have gone on and spent ing test bores at Fremantle Dock (asked the moiney, and practically it was illeg-al for by Hon. M. L. Moss). expenditure, but everything wve do we pro- pose to do constitutionally, and with that object in view, we will submit this Bill 'MOTION - WONGAN HI1JLS-MUL- to-miorrow for consideration. LEWTA RATLXYAY SELECT COW- Hon. W. Kingsmill: What are field MITTEE. orders?9 Extended powers. The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Field orders are orders sent out for signature. Hon. R. J. LYNN (West): In the mo- There is an amount of money for thle Rail- tion as handed to tile Clerk yesterday, in way Department, whbich may require