BRITISH-IRISH PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY Fifty-First Plenary Session 15-17 November 2015, Cheltenham, Glos. 1 MEMBERSHIP OF THE BRITISH-IRISH PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY STEERING COMMITTEE Co-Chairs Mr Laurence ROBERTSON MP Mr Frank FEIGHAN TD Vice-Chairs Mr Séamus KIRK TD Mr Dave ANDERSON MP Mr Aengus Ó SNODAIGH TD Mr Andrew ROSINDELL MP MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE Oireachtas Members British Members Mr Frank FEIGHAN TD Mr Laurence ROBERTSON MP Senator Terry BRENNAN (Associate) Mr Dave ANDERSON MP Senator Paul COGHLAN Lord BEW Mr Noel COONAN TD Baroness BLOOD Senator John CROWN Mr Andrew BRIDGEN MP Senator Maurice CUMMINS Ms Deidre BROCK MP Senator Imelda HENRY Mr Oliver COLVILE MP Senator Cáit KEANE Lord DUBS Mr John LYONS TD Mr Mark DURKAN MP Mr Dinny McGINLEY TD Mr Paul FARRELLY MP Senator Paschal MOONEY Lord GLENTORAN Senator Mary MORAN Ms Helen JONES MP Mr Joe O’REILLY TD Mr Danny KINAHAN MP Mr Aengus Ó SNODAIGH TD Rt Hon Lord MAWHINNEY Mr John Paul PHELAN TD Mr Conor McGINN MP Mr Arthur SPRING TD Mr Nigel MILLS MP Senator Jim WALSH Mr Andrew ROSINDELL MP Lord SKELMERSDALE Welsh Assembly Members Mr Robin WALKER MP Mr David MELDING AM Mr John GRIFFITHS AM (Associate) Scottish Parliament Members Mr William POWELL AM Mr John SCOTT MSP Mrs Joyce WATSON AM Mr Willie COFFEY MSP Mr Lindsay WHITTLE AM Mr Gordon MacDONALD MSP (Associate) Mr Michael McMAHON MSP Ms Mary SCANLON MSP 2 Tynwald Member Northern Ireland Assembly Members The Hon Stephen RODAN SHK Mr Barry McELDUFF MLA Mr Sean ROGERS MLA States of Jersey Member Mr Robin SWANN MLA Deputy John LE FONDRE Deputy Kevin LEWIS (Associate) States of Guernsey Member Deputy Roger PERROT OTHERS ATTENDING AS GUEST SPEAKERS Mr Ben Wallace MP Mr George Hamilton QPM Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Chief Constable of Northern Ireland, PSNI Northern Ireland Office Ms Nóirín O’Sullivan Rt Hon David Lidington MP Commissioner of An Garda Síochána Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office Mr Dominic Hannigan TD Chair of the Oireachtas Joint EU Affairs Mr Brian Kavanagh Committee, Dublin Chief Executive of Horseracing Ireland Deputy John Le Fondré, Jersey Mr Nick Rust Deputy Roger Perrot, Guernsey Chief Executive of the British Horse Hon Stephen Rodan, Isle of Man Racing Authority Representatives of the three Crown Dependencies OFFICIALS Joint Clerks to the Assembly Clerks of the Devolved Institutions Dr Robin James, British Co-Clerk Mr Steven Bell Ms Tara Kelly, Irish Co-Clerk Mr Robert Lloyd-Williams Mr Nicola Crawford COMMITTEE CLERKS TO THE ASSEMBLY Committee A: Sovereign Matters Committee B: European Affairs Mr Ian Devine Mr Ed Beale Mr Ed Faulkner Mr Ian Devine Committee C: Economic Committee D: Environmental and Mr Luke Brennan Social Dr Anna Dickson Mr Stuart Stoner Mr Luke Brennan British and Irish Secretariats Official Reporters Mrs Amanda Healy Mr Mark Blackaby Miss Priscilla Hungerford Ms Portia Dadley Sir Michael Davies KCB Mrs Awen Mai Evans Mr Luke Brennan Ms Gail Nicholl Miss Jessica O’Connor Ms Elizabeth McVeigh Mr Francis Sheehan 3 Monday 16 November 2015 The Assembly met at 10.27 am. PLENARY BUSINESS The Co-Chairman (Mr Laurence Robertson MP): Good morning. I wonder if we could make a start. Apologies for the delay, but our first speaker was delayed, and we might have to rejig the programme a little. The Assembly is now in public session, and I am very pleased to welcome everyone to this wonderful venue— Cheltenham racecourse. I hope we have a good plenary session in these wonderful surroundings. I have one or two brief announcements. First, could I ask everyone to turn off mobile phones and other devices while they are in the meeting room? Also, when anyone is invited to contribute from the floor, could they please stand up and clearly state their name and legislature? Finally, may I remind Members that the proceedings of the body do not attract parliamentary privilege? I am delighted to be joined by my Co-Chairman, Frank Feighan. NEW MEMBERS The Co-Chairman (Mr Frank Feighan TD): Thank you. Since the last plenary session, held in Dublin in February, the UK general election has been held, and we have a new UK delegation, as well as a new British membership for Committees. I do not propose to read out all the names, and a full list has been provided to Members. In particular, I would like to welcome David Anderson MP and Andrew Rosindell MP as the new British Vice-Chairs. I also welcome Andrew as the new Chair of Committee B. I would also like to pay tribute to the work of all those parliamentarians from the UK who have ceased to be members—in particular to Paul Murphy and Bob Walter, who were the previous British Vice-Chairs. I also pay tribute to Bob for his distinguished work as Chair of Committee B. The following Members have sent their apologies for the plenary session: from the UK, Rosie Cooper MP, Baroness Corston, Jeffrey Donaldson MP, Nigel Evans MP, Baroness Harris of Richmond, and Jack Lopresti MP; from Ireland, Seán Conlon TD, Seán Crowe TD, Martin Heydon TD, Seamus Kirk TD, Mattie McGrath TD, Patrick O’Donovan TD and Aengus Ó’Snodaigh TD; from the Scottish Parliament, Alison McInnes MSP; from the National Assembly for Wales, Darren Millar AM; and from the Northern Ireland Assembly, Judith Cochrane MLA and Brenda Hale MLA. 4 I have to inform the Assembly also that in accordance with rule 2A, the following Associate Members have accepted the invitation of the Steering Committee to assume the powers and responsibilities of Members for the whole of this session: Senator Terry Brennan, replacing Mattie McGrath TD, Gordon MacDonald MSP, replacing Alison McInnes MSP, and John Griffiths AM, replacing Darren Millar AM. PROGRAMME OF BUSINESS 10.30 am The Co-Chairman (Mr Laurence Robertson MP): In response to the tragic events in Paris, we will observe a minute’s silence at 11 o’clock today. We have put out a press statement, which we will read at the time, but we will interrupt proceedings at 11 o’clock to observe the silence if that is okay. We will now consider the programme for the next two days. Since the provisional programme was distributed last week, there have been a number of changes, largely due to the important talks now taking place in Northern Ireland, which have been extended into today. One or two of our speakers have withdrawn, for reasons that I hope we all understand, but we have tried to rejig the programme so that it is still very relevant and interesting. Copies of the revised programme have been sent out. We still have quite a crowded programme. We will hear first from David Lidington, the UK Minister for Europe. Ben Wallace has been slightly delayed, but will be here shortly. During the lunch break, there will be an opportunity for a guided tour of the redeveloped racecourse, which is well worth doing. Following that, we will have the usual group photograph. After lunch, we will hear from the two chief police officers in Ireland and Northern Ireland, followed by an address from the Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on European Union Affairs and a political debate on the future relations between the UK and Ireland following the referendum in the UK on its membership of the EU. This evening, at the racecourse, we will be privileged to be joined for dinner by Her Royal Highness the Princess Royal. In tomorrow’s session, which will start at 10 o’clock, we will have a joint presentation by the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey on the past and future relationship between the three Crown dependencies and the UK. Then we will have an opportunity to debate the three Committee reports and hear progress reports from the Committees. Programme of Business agreed. ADDRESS BY THE MINISTER FOR EUROPE The Co-Chairman (Mr Laurence Robertson MP): 5 As I said, we have had to rejig the programme slightly, but I am delighted that the Minister for Europe, David Lidington, is now with us. His earlier appearance has just been sprung on him. Thank you, David, for agreeing to move your session forward. I am sure that this is a very interesting time to be holding that post—in the run-up to our referendum on membership of the European Union, but also because of the very many issues being considered at the moment. It is certainly not an easy post to hold, so David, thank you very much for joining us. We look forward to hearing what you have to say. The floor is yours. Rt Hon David Lidington MP, Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office: Laurence, thank you very much for the invitation to come and speak today. As I look round, I am conscious that a number of friends and acquaintances are here from both countries. It is good to see people again. I want to start with where we are in terms of the bilateral relationship. Given the history of this body, it is worth pausing and taking note of how far the bilateral relationship has come since the early days, in which I recall some veteran Members of the Parliamentary Assembly saying that people were almost literally at daggers drawn when they first came across one another. Her Majesty the Queen’s transformational state visit in May 2011 and the first state visit by President Higgins to the United Kingdom in the spring of 2014 symbolise the way in which the political landscape of these islands has been reshaped. More recently, the visit of Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall to the west coast of Ireland has marked another step forward.