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Official Report (Hansard) Tuesday 30 September 2014 Volume 97, No 8 Session 2014-2015 Contents Executive Committee Business Legal Aid and Coroners' Courts Bill: Further Consideration Stage .................................................. 1 Private Members' Business Kincora Boys’ Home: Investigation of Allegations of Abuse ............................................................. 11 Oral Answers to Questions Social Development ........................................................................................................................... 19 Agriculture and Rural Development .................................................................................................. 27 Private Members' Business Kincora Boys’ Home: Investigation of Allegations of Abuse (Continued) ......................................... 36 Commonwealth Games: Team NI .................................................................................................... 41 Adjournment Sporting Provision: Dungiven ........................................................................................................... 53 Suggested amendments or corrections will be considered by the Editor. They should be sent to: The Editor of Debates, Room 248, Parliament Buildings, Belfast BT4 3XX. Tel: 028 9052 1135 · e-mail: [email protected] to arrive not later than two weeks after publication of this report. Assembly Members Agnew, Steven (North Down) McAleer, Declan (West Tyrone) Allister, Jim (North Antrim) McCallister, John (South Down) Anderson, Sydney (Upper Bann) McCann, Fra (West Belfast) Attwood, Alex (West Belfast) McCann, Ms Jennifer (West Belfast) Beggs, Roy (East Antrim) McCarthy, Kieran (Strangford) Bell, Jonathan (Strangford) McCartney, Raymond (Foyle) Boylan, Cathal (Newry and Armagh) McCausland, Nelson (North Belfast) Boyle, Ms Michaela (West Tyrone) McCorley, Ms Rosaleen (West Belfast) Bradley, Dominic (Newry and Armagh) McCrea, Basil (Lagan Valley) Bradley, Ms Paula (North Belfast) McCrea, Ian (Mid Ulster) Brady, Mickey (Newry and Armagh) McDonnell, Alasdair (South Belfast) Buchanan, Thomas (West Tyrone) McElduff, Barry (West Tyrone) Byrne, Joe (West Tyrone) McGahan, Ms Bronwyn (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Cameron, Mrs Pam (South Antrim) McGimpsey, Michael (South Belfast) Campbell, Gregory (East Londonderry) McGlone, Patsy (Mid Ulster) Clarke, Trevor (South Antrim) McGuinness, Martin (Mid Ulster) Cochrane, Mrs Judith (East Belfast) McIlveen, David (North Antrim) Copeland, Michael (East Belfast) McIlveen, Miss Michelle (Strangford) Craig, Jonathan (Lagan Valley) McKay, Daithí (North Antrim) Cree, Leslie (North Down) McKevitt, Mrs Karen (South Down) Dallat, John (East Londonderry) McKinney, Fearghal (South Belfast) Dickson, Stewart (East Antrim) McLaughlin, Ms Maeve (Foyle) Dobson, Mrs Jo-Anne (Upper Bann) McLaughlin, Mitchel (South Antrim) Douglas, Sammy (East Belfast) McMullan, Oliver (East Antrim) Dunne, Gordon (North Down) McNarry, David (Strangford) Durkan, Mark (Foyle) McQuillan, Adrian (East Londonderry) Easton, Alex (North Down) Maginness, Alban (North Belfast) Eastwood, Colum (Foyle) Maskey, Alex (South Belfast) Elliott, Tom (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Milne, Ian (Mid Ulster) Farry, Stephen (North Down) Morrow, The Lord (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Fearon, Ms Megan (Newry and Armagh) Moutray, Stephen (Upper Bann) Flanagan, Phil (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Nesbitt, Mike (Strangford) Ford, David (South Antrim) Newton, Robin (East Belfast) Foster, Mrs Arlene (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Ní Chuilín, Ms Carál (North Belfast) Frew, Paul (North Antrim) Ó hOisín, Cathal (East Londonderry) Gardiner, Samuel (Upper Bann) O'Dowd, John (Upper Bann) Girvan, Paul (South Antrim) O'Neill, Mrs Michelle (Mid Ulster) Givan, Paul (Lagan Valley) Overend, Mrs Sandra (Mid Ulster) Hale, Mrs Brenda (Lagan Valley) Poots, Edwin (Lagan Valley) Hamilton, Simon (Strangford) Ramsey, Pat (Foyle) Hay, William (Speaker) Ramsey, Ms Sue (West Belfast) Hazzard, Chris (South Down) Robinson, George (East Londonderry) Hilditch, David (East Antrim) Robinson, Peter (East Belfast) Humphrey, William (North Belfast) Rogers, Seán (South Down) Hussey, Ross (West Tyrone) Ross, Alastair (East Antrim) Irwin, William (Newry and Armagh) Ruane, Ms Caitríona (South Down) Kelly, Mrs Dolores (Upper Bann) Sheehan, Pat (West Belfast) Kelly, Gerry (North Belfast) Spratt, Jimmy (South Belfast) Kennedy, Danny (Newry and Armagh) Storey, Mervyn (North Antrim) Kinahan, Danny (South Antrim) Sugden, Ms Claire (East Londonderry) Lo, Ms Anna (South Belfast) Swann, Robin (North Antrim) Lunn, Trevor (Lagan Valley) Weir, Peter (North Down) Lynch, Seán (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Wells, Jim (South Down) Lyttle, Chris (East Belfast) Wilson, Sammy (East Antrim) Northern Ireland Assembly Tuesday 30 September 2014 The Assembly met at 10.30 am (Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Mitchel McLaughlin] in the Chair). Members observed two minutes' silence. "(2) The selection of the person to be so Executive Committee designated must be on the basis of merit Business through fair and open public competition.". Legal Aid and Coroners' Courts Bill: The following amendment stood on the Marshalled List: Further Consideration Stage No 2: In clause 3, page 2, line 27, after Mr Principal Deputy Speaker: I call the "directions" insert Minister of Justice, Mr David Ford, to move the Further Consideration Stage of the Legal Aid ", issued under this section or under any other and Coroners' Courts Bill. statutory provision,".— [Mr Elliott.] Moved. — [Mr Ford (The Minister of Justice).] Mr Elliott: I will speak on amendment Nos 1 and 2. Obviously, we are back here just two Mr Principal Deputy Speaker: Members will weeks after the last debate. I think that the have a copy of the Marshalled List of Minister was quite pleased that I provided a amendments detailing the order for little more debate and discussion around the consideration. The amendments have been legislation. He did not ask me to bring these grouped for debate in the provisional grouping amendments forward again, but I think that he of amendments selected list. There are two is quite sympathetic to them — at least I hope amendments, which will be debated in a single that he is. group. The amendments set out to require specific selection arrangements for the person It was quite interesting the last day that Mr who is to be designated director of legal aid Allister described the amendments that I casework and to provide that the director must brought forward as modest. Most parties, with comply with directions from the Department the exception of Alliance, appeared to support about the carrying out of the director's the principle behind them but did not appear to functions, which have a specific basis in statute. have the will, the courage or whatever to vote for them. I remind Members intending to speak that, during the debate, they should address both amendments. Once the debate is completed, What were modest amendments the last day the second amendment will be moved formally, are even more modest today. Therefore, I hope and the Question will be put without any further that Members will see fit to support them. They debate. If that is clear, we shall proceed. are pretty simple. I have simplified them as much as possible. We now come to the amendments for debate. With amendment No 1, it will be convenient to The first amendment obviously deals with the debate amendment No 2. I call Mr Tom Elliott appointment of the director. I did attempt to to move amendment No 1 and to address the amend it so that the matter of being a civil other amendment in the group. servant would be taken out of it. That has now remained in. I accept that situation. However, what I am doing at this stage is proposing an Clause 2 (Designation of Director of Legal amendment that will result in an open, Aid Casework) transparent competition for the appointment of the director. I do not see how anybody can Mr Elliott: I beg to move amendment No 1: In actually object to that. I thought that most page 2, line 18, at end insert parties and Members of this House supported 1 Tuesday 30 September 2014 open competition for senior positions. I hope the senior officials have told us at Committee, that Members will see that. which is that any directions that are given to the director must be issued under statutory I know that the last day, the Minister indicated provision — in other words, within legislation. to us, as the officials did when they were at They have already indicated in Committee that Committee, that there are a number of options that will be what they have to do. Therefore, for how the director may be appointed, but why not include it in the legislation? there is no guarantee that it will be by open public competition. That is the difficulty. In the last debate at Consideration Stage, I Indeed, at the Committee, the senior official noted that the Minister gave an example of indicated that there were three methods that when that power of direction might be used. could be used. Only one of them was open However, the example that he gave was either competition. If we are genuine about moving about individual cases, in which he cannot give the appointment process in the Senior Civil direction anyway, or about a class of case, Service towards more open competition, why is which was raised in that debate by Mr this not a good place to start? The last day, Maginness and Mr Allister and was not included there was an acceptance in the House and in in my last amendments