lbird Seriee, VoL XXI-No. 30 Saturday, September ZI. 196 BhBdra 30, 188S (satl)
LOK SABHA DEBATES
(Fifth Session)
(Vol. XXI,conlains Nos. 21-30)
LOK S~BliA SECRETMI~T NliWp~m
frice: Re. 1: CONTENTS COLUMNS Oral Answers to Questions-
Short Notice Questions Nos. 14 to 18 7437-47
Statement re : Cease-fire on Assam-East Pakistan border Shri Jawaharlal Nehru Statement re: Gold Control and Compulsory Deposit Schemes Shri T.T. Krishnamachari 7458-66 Papers laid on the Table 7466-67 Committee on Petitions- Minutes 7467 Message from Rajya Sabha 7467-68 Re : Appointment of Ministers 7468 Re : Discussion on NEFA Enquiry Report 7488-73 Discussion onNEFA Enquiry and Motion re:" Our Defence Preparedness" '7474-7502 Shri P.K. Deo 7474-81 Shri K.C. Pant . 7481 - 87 Shri Heda . 7487~1 Shri Nath Pai .7491-7506 Shrimati Shard a Mukerjee 7506-13 Shri Raghunath Singh 75 13-24 Shri Lahri Singh 752 5-38 Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad 7538-48 Shri Hanumanthaiya 7549'-55 Shri Frank Anthony 7555-65 Shri Manabendra Shah 7565-70 Shri Sivamurthi Swamy 7570-78 Shri Kishen Pattnayak 7578- 84 Shri Y.B. Chavan .7584--"7600 Motion re : Committee on Public Undertakings Shri Kanungo 7603-{)7 Correction of answer to Starred Question No. 743 7607-{)8
Daily Digest 7609-10 Resume of the Fifth Session, 1963 76II-14 Consolidated Contents [September 10 to 21, 1963/Bhadra 19 to 30, 1885 (Saka)] (i-vi) L0K SABHA DEBATES
7437 7438 LOK SABRA case which pertains to a Consul Gene ral and an Ambassador. In the other Saturday, September 21, 1963iBhadra cases action was taken, those con 30, 1885 (Sakal cerned being either dismissed or removed or issued warning, suspend \The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the ed etc. But in this case not even a Clock warning was issued for misconduct. The Committee observes in its recom [MR.' SPEAKER in the Chair 1 mendation that it is concerned at the disregard of financial rules by officers ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS in high position. Therefore, may I SHORT NOTICE QUESTIONS know the reasons why these cases were treated on a different footing Indian Missions Abroad from the others? Not even a warning was issued to the Consul General and S.N.Q. 14 Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: the Ambassador. Will the Prime Minister be pleased to refer to the half-an-hour discussion Shri Dinesb Singh: I would submit (In Indian Missions abroad held on the that this is not a case of misconduct. 13th September, 1963 and state: These people had drawn some ad vances for the transfer of their goods (a) the number of officers and mem from one place to another. During bers of the staff of Indian Missions this transfer, they had felt that they abroad in respect of whom the Pub were entitled to certain allowances lic Accounts Committee has made for which orders had not gone. They .,harges of financial irregularities and were awaiting orders to adjust this in etber malpractices since January I, their bills. When this matter was 1957; and brought to their notice as mentioned (b) the nature of action taken in in the statement, they adjusted the .each case, together with the details amount and refunded it. (If the charge made by the Committee Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Have .in that case? there been any instances during the The Deputy Minister In the Minis period under reference when un -try of External Mairs (Shri Dlnesb animous recommendations of the Pub lic Accounts Committee for further 'Singh): (a) action or inquiry were brushed aside Officers 14. or shelved in a manner similar to that Staff 11. in which an earlier unanimous recom (b) Suitable action bas been taken mendation made twice or thrice by .in most of the cases as mentioned in the Public Accounts Committee was the statement laid on the Table of the contemptuously disregarded in respect House. [Placed in the Library, See of the notorious jeep scandal or trans- No. LT-1796/63l. ,action in which ...... Shri Dari VIShnU Kamath: I do not Mr. Speaker: Order, order. That want to refer to all the cases refer has nothing to do with this. What 'red to in the three-page £tatement has happened here is the point at laid on the Table, but there is one issue . .1286 (Ai) LSD-I 7439 OraL Answers SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 OraL Answers 7440
Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: All right. course of just three months--may I I referred to it as it is a well-known know whether the Prime Minister ill case. in a position to assure us that the handling of financial accounts in our Mr. Speaker: May be. But it can mi!sions abroad has been made fool not be decided here. proof and attempts made to cleanse our diplomatic stables of the dirt and Shri Hari Vishnu Kamli.th: I said dross that have accumulated over the 'in a manner similar to'. years? Shri Dinesh Singh: It is very diffi- cult to meet these insinuations and Mr. Speaker: How to remove all say anything. that has accumulated in the question?
Mr. Speaker: The only question is Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I can only whether the unanimous recommenda give an assurance that we shall do tion of the Public Accounts Committee our utmost. What more can I say? in these cases were brushed aside. SUi Hem Barna: But have you SUi Dinesh Singh: Not to my done your utmost by now? That ill knowledge. what I wanted to know, because the Audit Report has pointed out these Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Further things. inquiry? Not at all? Mr. Speaker: Not at all. Mr. Speaker: Does he expect that anyone would say that he has done SUi Dinesh Singh: In the cases I his utmost? have mentioned, we have taken action. SUi Tyagi: Since the Public Ac counts Committee and its recommen Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Is the dations have been mentioned, I might list exhaustive? Have there been any make it clear that whenever an,. instances where the Committee's Ministry does not act on the recom recommendations have been dis mendations made by the Public Ac regarded and no action taken thereon? counts Committee, the Ministry comes The Prime Minister, Minister of Ex next year for examination, and it has ternal Affairs and Minister of Atomic to submit to the Public Accounts Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): If Committee an Action Taken Report the 'hon. Member points out any case, on each recommendation. I may we will look into it. It is a long list. assure the House that the Public Ac- counts Committee 'has taken a resolve Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I shall that it is going to be absolutely do so next session. judicial without any party considera tions, and therefore, if there is any Mr. Speaker: Shri Hem Barua. lapse on the part of any Ministry the Public Accounts Committee will take Shri Tyagi: Since the Public Ac care of it. counts Committee has been mention- ed ...... Shri Hem Barna: They have failed to do it. I have read the whole report. Mr. Speaker: He cannot rise in this manner. Shri Daji: The Prime Minister has stated that he will do his best. May Shri Hem Barna: In view of the we know what exact steps have been fact that the audit report 'has pointed taken or are proposed to be taken to out gross irregularities of financial see that such defalcations and mis accounts in our missions abroad-in takes in accounts do not occur in' one case there was a misappropriation other Embassies, what instructioM of a sum of Rs. 1'54 lakhs in the have been issued! 744 I Oral Answers BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKAl Oral Answcrs 7442
Shri Dlnesh SIn~h: All these things ~ l1IffiiIT~ lIftlfQl lifo ~ 0 lfo t!(. "" ~ ~ : 'IllT $lf : I co rot allow that. fm'TI +i~~ iiffif.t ;tr FiT ~ f'!; : fum +ioft m~ 'iRT it ~ ~ ? ('Ii") 'IllT ~ ~ ~ f'!; ~ lliT tmtn<=l f~ : ~ ~ ~ 'I>"t f"!fl!f if; ~ if; om:ur fG~ it m'f>n: ~ Minister promised to make a state which may yield better results ia ment before Parliament adjourned. course of time. Mr. Speaker: He is going to make >'{T <:If'IT-t {~ : that statement; we will have that 5tatement. ~ ~!if; '31't ~ ~ f~~~lfll:3;fI'l"'f;T1f1;C" The Minister of Finance (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): (a) About 42'97 if~lfT~~l1T~ million grammes valued at approxi mately Rs. 23 crores at international Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: May prices have been declared under the say that I do hope to be able to deal gold control rules by dealers, refiners, with this matter, with your permis mstitutions and individuals. sion, a little later. (b) According to an article publish Shri Tyagi: Out of this small Ed in the April 1958 issue of the Re amount of gold declared, how much serve Bank of India Bulletin, the total goes to the credit of the institutions? quantity of non-monetary gold in all forms in India was esbmated at about Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: can 3266 million grammes, the value of give you the data that I have here. which at the international price would Individuals have declared about be about Rs. 1750 crores. This esti Rs. 8'15 crores; dealers, Rs. 14'80 mate, however, was not based on any crores and refineries, about Rs. 7 lakhs. precise data. The Government has Institutions come both in regard to had no occasion to make any assess individuals and in regard to dealers. ment in this matter. So, the estimate of Rs. 8'15 crores for individuals is not a correct One. Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: Has Gov ernment tried to find out the reasons 'I1T fCf"l!ffl flf>,{ 4" "IT'filT for such a small amount of declaration ~~!if;~~'t~ out of a total of three thousand and ~<'fmi<:if;~if;~~ odd million grammes which are sup posed to be available in the country? ~~~~~<'fTrfi'fi't tffi;s ~ ljlf'fT ~ ~ ~ 'm11" ? Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: We are still in search of causes and in this Shri Jashvant Mehta: The han. search I think probably the Govern Finance Minister stated that substan ment would have to go into various tial amount of gold had not come out. matters. Government are cognizant Contradictory statements have been of this matter and are fUlly seized of made by the Treasury Benches on the this matter and at the present moment gold control and smuggling issue. I am not in a position to indicate May I know whether actually smuggl precisely what we can do. ing has increased or decreased? Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: May know whether it has been examined Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: If I that the gold control orders as at pre know what precisely is the nature of sent framed are more a handicap than smuggling in this country, there will easing the position for those who hold be no smuggling at all in this coun gold and who want to declare it? try. Shri T. T. Krishnamach3ri: I am not Shri H. N. Mukerjee: May I know in a position to say categorically that why the Government has not utilised the hon. Member is correct in his the powers whiCh I am told it has assumption. Gold control order is being got, to find out whether I:lrge amounts continually subjected to examination of gold are secreted, as they are and revision and I think We may per reported to be, in the security vaults, haps arrive at some type of control and see that they are not secreted. 7145 Oral Answers BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKAl Oral AnsweT~ under the provisions of these rules Shri Bari Vishnu Kam3th: If and orders? heard the Minister aright, there was a considerable time-lag between the oc Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: This is currence of the incident and the time a bit of a hearsay. I have also heard when the telephone service was set about it. I do not know-{)nce men right. Is the House to understand tion is made in the House that there that other communications were also is gold in the security deposits, vaults disrupted and that intimation about -it wiII still be there. I certainly the incident-the assault by the follow the suggestion. policemen-was received here very Ilite by the P. & T. authorities and, if Shri R. S. Pandey: It had been W, what are the reasons for that decided that only 14 carat gold would delay in communication? be allowed to be used in ornaments. Now, the impression has been created, as it appeared in the press, that the Shri Bhagavati: There was not hon. Minister of Finance is thinking much delay .. The incident occurred on of increasing it from 14 carat to 18 12-9-1963 after 19'13 !lOurs. Even carat. I want to know whether it is after the reported assliult on an true. operator -the exchange worked the whole night. In the morning also the Mr. Speaker: The ,tatement is operators came to the Exohange. l:oing to be made just 110W. Again there was some disturbance in the morning at about 10:35 nour.. Telephone Service in Balaghat Then the operators left the exchange. From Gondia exchange some operators S.N.Q. 17. Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: were then brought to this place and Will the Minister of Po.1s and Tele the exchange was put te work at ITllPhs be pleased to state: about 15.3f) hours on the same day i.e. the 13th. (a) whether the telephone service in Balaghat, Madhya Pradesh has been Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: What itopped or otherwise adver,ely affect exactly were the details of this assault ed following the assault by some incident, and has the State Govern policemen on local telephone opera ment ordered a regular im estigation tors; and Or enquiring into this mattu? (b) if so, the measures taken or Shri Bhapvati: A magistrate ha. being taken to restore normalcy? been appointed by the C"-mmissioner of Jabalpur division to inves:igate The Deputy Minister in the Depart into this matter. He has already meat of Posts and Tele'lraphs (Shrl investigated into this case on the 18th Bhapvati): (a) Yes. The telephone and completed the e'lquiry on the exchange at Balaghat had to be closed 19th at about 1100 hrs. on 13-9-1963 but Shri Bari ViShnu Kamath: Has the normalcy was restored by the evening report been received? on the same date. Shri Bhagavati: The report has not (b) The matter was taken up pro yet been submitted. mptly with the State Government and Shri Dajl: Has the Government high officials of the Police Department ascertained the causes of this incident who have given assurance that the and are steps being taken to see that P. & T. staff can carryon their such incidents do not recur again? normal work without any fear. On the spot investigation by a senior Shri Bhagavati: The whole thing officer of the p. & T. Department was was investigated into, and when we also carried out at the earliest oppor get the report from the magistrate tunity: then only we can say. 7447 Oral Answers SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 Production ef Cement in Andhra 11.22 hrs. Pradesh STATEMENT RE. CEASE-FIRE ON 1- ASSAM-EAST PAKISTAN BORDER (Shri KolJa Venkaiah: The Prime Minister, and Minister S.N.Q. 18 J Shri A. K. Gopalan: .") Shri M. N. Swamy: of External Affairs and Minister of l S;ui Namblar: Atomic- Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): Three days ago, Sir, I made Will the Minister of Steel and a statement about the firing on :he Heavy Industries be pleased to state: Karimganj border, near about t;l"t. This firing continued ior two do.) S after U>at on 18th and 19th until yes (a) whether it is a fact that the l'roduction of cement in Andhra Pra terday morning, when a cease-fire desh has come to a standstill as the agreeLlent was arrived at be.ween iactories are closed down; the Sector Commander on our side and the Pakistani voruer officials. It (b) whether it is due to want of ha5 appeared in the press today t30 'stockage facilities in the factories on that at 4 P.M. the cease-fire took aCl"OUnt of non-lifting of the produee· effect. .nd • During the talks between the repre (c) whether this has created a sentatives of the two parties, stress serious situation affecting the eeano was laid hy our Sector Commander to my and caused serious inconvenience have a temporarily acceptab.e work to the public who are unable to get ing boundary till the final boundary cement? is settled. But no agreement was arrived at on this. Then it was sug The Deputy Minister in the Minis- ge3ted that a meeting might be held try of Steel and Heavy Industries at a higher level, at the GOC level (Shri P. C. Sethi): (a) No Sir. No be~ween 4th and 10th October to con report has been received about oider this. The Pakistani Sector cement factories being closed down in Commander agreed to convey this re Andhra Pradesh. Production figures quest :0 the higher authorities. but availahle do not show any serious made no commitment. Meanwhile crisis in the factories. we are urging on the Pakistan Gov ernment for an urgent survey and de (b) and (c). Do not arise. mar"ation of the boundary. but we have not had any positive response Shri Kolla Venkaiah: M)' informa from the Pakistan Government to tion is that for the last I ~ months the these proposals. factories are closed because the Gov ernment did not remove it, quota of During these five days of in ter cement which is about 85 per cent of mi':tent firing in this b3rder, so far the production and the public ate as we know. there were three casual- suffering becaUSe they are not getting ties. one 0: these being fatal, and cement. Because of that, the factories probably, though it has not been are closed. Will the Government as confirmed, another of the injured, a certain M1is from the factories and the Muslim lady. also died in the hospi State Governments! tal. That is all I have to say. Shri Swell (Assam-Autonomous Mr. Speaker: He has suggest"d that Districts): Is it a fact that some that must be ascertained aDd it will Pakistanis have intruded into Indian be ascertained. territory and that notwithstanding the cease-fire. they have refused to budge from there? 7449 Statement re: BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKA) Cease_fire on Assam-7450 East Pakistan Border 8hri lawaharlal Nehru: It must be Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: We shall Dhviously after the cease-fire. ,alk with them anyhow and every where whenever an opportulllty offers Mr. Speaker: He wants to know itself. whether during this period of til ing, Paki5tanis had trespassed in to our Shri S. M. Banerjee: My qu,agtion territory, which they now refuse to has not been replied. vacate. Is that the question? Mr. Speaker: That he has answered, Shri Swell: Yes, Sir. that to the extent they have trespass ed or intruaed into our territory they Shri lawaharlal Nehru: Pakistanis have not vacated it. intruded into the territory OCCUPIed ·by ·US, but which has been in dispute. Shri S. M. Banerjee: My question was not that. They have entered mto Shri Hem Barua (Gauhati) rose- our territory. According to the Prime Minister that area is a disputed area, Mr. Speaker: Order, order; I will and according to them it may not be give him an opportunity to put his a disputed area. But they have en question. A question has been put tered into a particular area. Even if, and that is being answered now. according to the Prime Minister, it is a disputed area. they have crossed Shri lawaharlal Nehru: So far as tha t area and started firing. I would know, in this territory part of it is in like to know whether they have been ~ispule, and a,though it had been asked to withdraw from that area agreed that they should not cross this before the talks start? till it is decided, they have occupied part of it. MIr. Speaker: 'I1Iurt is what ;be has Mr. Speaker: The question asked stated. He has said that talks we will was, whether they have now refused undertake even if that is not done to vacate it. and that in any case we will enter into talks. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Yes. I do Sbri N. Makerjee (Calcutta Cen not think. as a result Of this armistice H. tral): Sir. a ceaSe fire always takes yesterday. they have vacated. They bave just stopped firing on both sides. place in accordance with return to status quo. If the status quo has been Shri S. M. Banerjee (Kanpur): In disturbed. as he alleges, how does the this particular area of LathitiUa the cease fire come to be in the picture? Pakistanis hoisted their fiag on 14th August, 1963 and they have practic.il- 8hri Jawaharlal Nehra: Cease fire 1y occupied this area. From that is a cease fire, it may be something particular area they started firing and more. It may be no more. As far as continued it for five days. I would we know we have not received detail like to know whether whi:e agree ed reports about the cease fire. As a Ing to their cease fire proposal, which result of the talks between two sector is good in my opinion. we have made commanders they decided to stop tt clear that they must first withdraw firing. Our man suggested that a from that particular area. which is a temporary boundary should be fixed. disputed area. before we .tart talking To that the other commander did not to them! agree except to refer it to his higher authorities. and the proposal wa3 that Shri laWll1larlaI Nehru: Before we on the 4th October. or a day <:-1' ~wo do what! alter that, the GOC level meeting shou'd take place to consider that. Mr. S)M!aker: Belore we begla to That has been referred to the higher talk with them. authorities. re: 7451 Statement SETPEMBER 21, 1963 Cease_fire on Assam- 745Z Eiult Pakistan Border Shri Daji (Indore): The Prime Mi- nister said that the proposal with re ~mif@~;;ror~flf; Mr. Speaker: No. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The whole area consists of about five villages. It Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Then is not a big area. As I have said here want to ask whether the han. Prime previously, there is discordance bet Minister has seen the report in the ween the map prepared by the Rad 'Hindustan Standard' that the jet. cliffe Commission and the details bomber squadron with radar equip they have given of the area. In the ment has been removed to the eastern map prepared there is a straight line [ront, that is, on the East Pakistan which is rather favourable to Pakis frontier, whether there is any infor tan. In the deta;led report it is mation about that and whether Gov favourable to India. There is argu ernment is seized of the matter. ment about that. We think that the Mr. Speaker: Shri Kamath. Shr; Hem Barua: Which they have occupied forcibly. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath (Hoshan Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Durmg gabad): He is replying to his question the last three year. how many such cease-fire agreements have been con Shri Jawaharla! Nehru: He started cluded on V18rious points of conflict on with "in view of the fact" and carried the Indo-Pakistan b~rder in the ea.t, on to some other paragraphs. That how often have they been violated by 'in view of the fact' is not wholly cor Pakistan, and is Government sure that rect, that is. the Radcliffe Award lcft Pakistan will not violate this cease it to be determined, subject to their tire agreement too in the near future, general directions, by the surveyors. and is Government prepared for it? Mr. Speaker: Can anybody be sure Shri Hem Barua: No; I can quote of anything to be done by another? from the Radcliffe Award to prove how wrong the han. Prime Minister Shri Hari Vishllu Kamath: How is. many times it has been agreed to and how many times it has been violated. Mr. Speaker: Shri Hem Barua would Every ti";'e it has been violated? resume his seat and listen to the answer. He has asked the question Shr; Jawaharla! Nehru: How can I and if he is not satisfied with the answer this question as to how many answer, he can subsequently bring it times in the last few years it has been to my notice that the answer was nut violated? correct. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Have they respected any agreement on .shri Hem Barua: But at the same cease-fire? I do not think that Pakis time we cannot allow the han. "Prime tan has respected any cease-fire Minister to throw dust into our "yeS .. agreement. (Interruption . . ..) Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I do not Sllri Ralllullatll SiBIIl (Vannasi): accept that. There are many other .greem·ents which have been agreed It is hiChly objectionable. 7455 Statement re: SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 Cease_fire on Assam- 7456 East Pakistan Bcn'cier [Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] 6"R!T ~? Now, Shri T, T, upon and which have been acted upon; Krishnamachari. some have not been.... Shrimati R8Ilu Cbakravartty: Is he Shri Han Vishnu Kamath: Acted making the statement in reply to the upon by "3, not by them. calling-atten t ion-no:ice? Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: By tnem Mr. Speaker: Yes. also. Shri Buta Sin&'h (Moga): I want to Shri Hem Barua: Before the ink is make one submission.... dry on the agreement, they violate it. Mr. Speaker: There is nothing on Shri Jawabarlal Nebnl: I am to which he can make his submission speak with some responsibility. To now. say that they have always broken every agreement made is completely Shri Buta Siu&,h: I want to put one wrong. question t:> the Prime Minister. Shri Bade (Khargone): They are going on encroaching on our land and Mr. Speaker: The han. Member may resume his seat. He cannot put his . 'we are tolerating it. question like tha t. Some Rou. Members rose- Shrl Buta Sin&'h: I want to make a Mr. Speaker: I am calling :>nly the brief submis>ion. ,signatories and not the others. Mr. Speaker: Not in this manner. Now, Shri T. T. Krishnamachari. Shrl Bnta Slu&,h: I only wanted to '>l7 .-rqr (f~) ';f0li!ff know one thing from the Prime ~R>:r, 1f7.r ~ ~ ~'~w.:r Minister. ~. Mr. Speaker: I am not allowing him. He may kindly sit down. lIfO'.l9 I1E!:Rlf: ~;ft;;r ~ Shrl Buta Singh: L want to kllow ~ it ~ lfV"f ~~? from the Prime Minister.... '>l"i lfTI'i,ft : ita ~ ~ w.:r Mr. Speaker: Order, order, he is ~ ~ .. obstructing the proceedings of the House. He should sit down now. ~ ~ : ~ otm"lT ~ '>IT ~~ : ifu ~ azr i:f ~ ~ ~'~';w:a"; i:f~f?dto ... ~ 11~~:~~m~ ~ ~ ~ mlf,t ~ ~ if) ~ 11ft 1fTI'1;1-: ~ ~, m'f ~ lI1if ~. ~ ~'RIT t ? ~lRTomfWf~·· . '>IT 1fTI'1~: ~ ~R>:r . ~9 I1E!:R~ ~ 'l\"if..-rr ~~~~f.mrCf~ ,"t~~ ~ : llit ~ m >r@' ~, ~ ~~if@' gm~ ~~f.F~Cf'I\" ~~~ ~~,.".~m>r@'~ ~ mlf,t if ~ o;r Cf'I\" azr 3. On tt ~ problem of those workir.g on gold we have to consider firstly the self-employed goldsmiths and secondly 7459 Statement re: SETPEMBER 21, 1963 Go!d Control and the 746o, Compulsory Deposit Schemes [Shri T. T. Krishnamachari] those employed by the bigger gold p03sess such ornaments and want them smiths and jewellers. While we have to be re-shaped, and to enable the self a programme of rehabilitation of the employed goldsrruths to continue tch self-employed goldsmiths, we had earn a living for the time being. recognised that the Hmge of the pro 6. Apart from these changes to which blem has hardly been touched, and it I have just referred, Government pro wou~d take much more than the POSe to make certain changes in the amount of money we have allotted administrative set-up in order to make for this purpose so far as well as a enforcement more effective. The pre great deal of time, before we can suc sent rules provide for the establish cessfully rehabilitate most of them. ment of a Board to advise Govern While we propose to pro:eed with thIs ment and to be in over-all charge of task of rehabilitation of goldsmiths, the implementation of policy. Tilt' who depend purely on 1he manufac resp~nsibility for enforcement o' ture of go:d ornaments for their live these rules is. however, entrusted to lihood, we cannot do all that has to be the Central Excise Department. After done in a day. a care:ul examination of the matter, Government have come to the con 4. Government have, therefore, clusion that bifurcation of responsi- decided to grant licences to ;elf bility for policy making and for im employed goldsmiths on a nominal lee plementation of it is not wise. Gov· and to permit them on cer:ain condi ernment. therefore, have decided t" tions to convert existing gold orna centralise the administration by ap ments in excess of a purity of 14 carat pointing a Gold Control Administra into ornaments of like purity. This t~r. located in the Department of will restore to them the facility to Revenue. who will be in charge 01 carryon what was their main avoca matters of gold policy and adI'1inis tion Out-workers, i.e., those gOld tration aLl who will seek the nEElS- smiths who worked on gold in their tance at States administrations in ,his own houses to execute orders received task. from licensed dealers, will be permit ed to handle limited stocks of primary 7. When the gold control rules were gold upto 14 carat. Government hope originally framed, it was considered that these measures will facilitate the that the most convenient method wes continuance in employment Of gold to issue them in the form of amend smiths and artisans in this tr~de, ments to the Defence of India Ruies. pending the long-term proce .. of re Considering the application Of thes~ rules to a very large section of the habilitation. community, both in regard to the use of gold in industry and in regard to 5. I would emphasise that theSE re the use of gold as ornaments, Go\'ern laxations do not involve any ci,ange ment feel that these rules shOUld be in the Government's basic long-term replaced by a statute. subject of courSe policy to discourage the use of gold to the approval of the Parliament. genera lly and the production of gold Government, therefore, intend to bring jewellery of high purity. If anyone up before Parliament at a very early wants new ornaments to be made frotTl date a bill which might cover both the primary gold he can only get 14 carat short-term and the long-term objec ornaments to whiDhever source?f tives of Government's gold policy. supply he turns. There will be no sa,e Or display by dealers 01 jewellery ~f 8. I now turn to th~ o!hpr metter II purity exceeding 14 carat. The faCI which has .been exercising the n"i"ds lity to convert existing ornaments mto of the members of Parliament during new ornaments of purity .a~ve 14 this session, namely, the Compulsory carat is necessarily a hml~d one Deposit Scheme. As the House is and intended to beneftt tllOle, wh. aware, three out of the five SMema. 7461 Statement re: BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKA) Gold Control and the 746~ CompulsOTjj Deposit Schemes contemplated under the Compulsory ing the sCheme for the land reVC1.ue Deposit Scheme Act, 1963, namely payers and most of them would pre those relating to land-revenue payers, fer to see the schemes for the urban .urban immovable property holders and property owners and sales tax payers sales tax payers, have not yet been also given up. Some Chief Ministers brought into effect. These schemes have drawn pointed attention to the have to be implemented through the fact that the levy of a compulsory de States and local authorities concerneu posit on land owners in particular "lid and draft schemes were referred for the urban population generally would their comments to State Governments. affect the contribution ,0 voluntdry The replies received have indicated savings, a consideration whIch we call numerous practical difficulties, nctably not altogether ignore, in the case of land-revenue payers. Not .only the rates at which tax on land 10, In the light of these comments, is levied, but also the periods, methods the Government of India 'lave m~d', a .and agencie, of collection vary widely review of the Compulsory Deposit from State to S:ate. In regard to the Scheme as a whole, It is imp0r~ant iwo other schemes also, it has been to ensure equity Of sacrific between represented that collection would >,ose people who belong, broadly ;peaking, difficulties. In many cases. the muni to the same income groups or to the cipal authorities do not Impose any same economic levels, We cannot urban property tax ~nd would t:lUS exempt the land revenue payers frem -ha\'-e no ready basis for collectlng this scheme with::>ut giving relief to compulsory deposits. The Stales have salaried workers as well. .also complained that lhe sales tax payers scheme wouid impose addi 11. The Government of India have, tional burdens on their already l-tard therefore, decided that schemes in pressed sales tax authorities. Besides, respect of land revenue payer" 'c1rban the out-turn from these two subsi immovable property holders ",ld sales diary schemes is expected to be CJm tax payers, which have not yet ,'ome 'paratively small. into force, should be given up, As regards salaried workers who are not 9. Quite apart from the admimstra in the income-tax paying category, tive problems, there were indications Govt, feel that similar reliei should, 'that many State Governments were far in equity, be given to them. Arrange from happy about the idea tha~ an ments will be made to refund the additional levy, even thougn it was in deposits that have already oeen marl~ 'the form of savings rather than tax. with in'terest with the least possible be imposed upon land owners and the delay, Income-tax payers, however, relatively lower income urban grcups. stand on a different footing. So far 'Since the main beneficiaries of the as they are concerned, the rate 'Jf in 'Compulsory Deposit Sche:ne were the come-tax on them has gone up and 'State Governments themselves and they have the option '0 pay a part of the entire collection from the land the increase in the shape of a contri -revenue paying class would have gone bution to the Compulsory Depesit to them, the Government or India felt Scheme, A mere withdrawal ()f (11;, 'that it was but fair to ask the Stntc scheme might mean a greater hard Governments to express their ('onsi- ship to them, became in lIeu of a re dered opinion once agam on the sct.eme fundable deposit they would have to as a whole. Accordingly, I wrote to make an outright payment ill the shape the Chief Ministers of all the Stute, of a tax, The scheme for income 'asking them for their opinion u te tax payers win, therefore, continue whether these three scheme5 3h()uld I trust these changes will hav" th" 'be implemented, modified, or al\c support of the House, ·gether given up, The replies I have received from them sh.ow that almost 12, The decisions which I have just ;all of them are in favour of abandon- announced would mean 3 su"Jstantia~ Statement reo SETPEMBER 21, 1963 Gold Contra! and the 7464 Compulsory Deposit Schemes [Shri T. T. Krishnamacharij. loss of resources. Government, how In the process of being made and ever, hope that the Joss would be more therefore nothing can be said about than made up by an increase in them iiow. In regard t~ 'Lhe second voluntary savings. The House will be part, I ha\'e stated Government's glad to know that during the first policy as clearly as I am ah~e ~o. 5 months of the current financial year, small savings collections have been at Shrimati Renu Chakravartty (Bar a record figure of Rs. 31 crores. which rackpore): May I know whether Gov is more than double the collections in ernment is considering the ~~npQSl don the corresponding period last year. of a ceiling on holding ge,ld orna Government propose to intellsiry their ments of 22 carat purity and whether efforts for the collection of sm;ln sav dealers will be permitted to make ings and they trust that State Govern- jewellery of 22 carat purity alld also ments who receive two-third of the whether licensed dealers who will be collection from small savings will permitted to do ornaments will get an also ioin in this effort with renewed assured supply of 14 carat g'Jld'! vigour. Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: 'Ne C..1n Shri S. M. Banerjee (Kanpur): Two not really commit oursell'es to an as supplementaries may be necessary. sured supply of anything fOf the rea Shall I combine them into Olle~ son that Government do not h.ve continued supply of gold. I do n~t Shri Tyagi (Dehra Dun): I want to think it is possible for the GJvernmcnt seek a clarification. to give an assurance that any de mand for 14 carat gold wouid be rr,et. Mr. Speaker: Not now. Some ques tions are to be asked. Shri Banerj ee. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Even for licensed dealers? Shri S. M. Banerjee: It IS clear feom Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: E'len for the statement Of the han. Minister the licensed dealers it oannot be made. about gold control order thai gold con The primary consideration would be trol has not succeeded as they wanted. (or industrial Use and the secondary consideration for those peoplt' who Mr. Speaker: No 20n1meljts, only make ornaments for export. Barring questions. them we can only ration what is avail able among people wha need it Shri S. M. Banerjee: AI:er gi'/ing these concessions to the self-employed Shri Daji (Indore): Thtre is a re people, what definite steps nave been port that Government had db:ussions taken to rehabilitate those ',<;ho will with representatives of the All India not be covered by this concessi"l1? Goldsmiths Association. Is this cor That is my question No. 1. Secondly, rect? In view Of this conce3..;lOn an I would like to know whe'.her Gcv nounced, has Government considered ernment also intended to reduce or the release of those who are arrested modify the surcharge on income-tax in this connection? which has affected the middle class to a great extent. The Minister of Home Affairs (Shr; Nanda): Certain steps would follnw Mr. Speaker: Instead of one and ~he declaration and the statement. two, he could have said tal and (b): It would have gone as Olle Q·lcsUon. Shri Indrajit Gupta (Cai<'utta South Wes:): The han. Minister 11", C1tCg0rl Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: In re cally declared that it is Goverhment's gard to the first part ;,f the question p~licy to rehabilitate displa.:eu r,old-· of the han. Member, the changes are smiths. For that it will take a I~ng. 7465 Statement re: BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKA) 7466· Gold Control and the Compu.lsory Deposit Schemes time. Pending completion of rehabi Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: The de litation and relief measures, may I posit scheme is now limited to in know whether Governm€lit is con come-tax payers. As I have indicated, sidering about the relief measures it is of benefit to them. The r.omencla given to these goldsmiths and their ture does not really matter now. families; whether they will be Enhanc ed in a uniform way throughout the Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Has the country? I mean the quantum ot Gold Control Board been abolished? I relief to them. have put that question. Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: The mat Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: I have ter will have to be examined; I am indicated that there will be a Gold unable to commit myself. Control Administrator. ~atural;y, the . . Shri Vasudevan Nair (Ambala Gold Control Board will not function . puma): In the rehabilitation of gold smiths, may I know wilether '.he Cen "l1 ~ (~A") : 'T~ ~ tral GQverrunent will have some 'IiT;;fT~f~~~~, ~ direct role to play In ad.ditIOn to giving some money or loail to the ~~rwrn:'IiT~~~~ State GQvernments? ~ ~ ~, ~ ~e if ~ I1'f."R" 'liT Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: That is ~ ;;miT ~ .;m: ~ ~e if ~ the idea. The Gold Administrator will I1'f."R" 'liT ~r ;;wrr ~ I '3miT Rsi look after this matter witil the cc mrr mrr ~ I Mr. Speaker: The second part may be answered. 11.57 hrs. Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: Why not PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE the first part? Whether he has con sulted his predecessor- ANNUAL REpORT OF FILM FINANCE COR PORATION, BOMBAY, FOR 1962-63 AND Mr. Speaker: No, !l0. Th2 , (ii) Review by the Government on the working of the above Cor 11.58~ hrs. poration. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-1794/63]. RE: APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS INDIAN AIRCRAFT (FOURTH AMEND The Prime Minister, Minister of ME! Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath (Hoshan gabad): I hope there will be fewer ~1l.58 hrs. accidents on the railways! COMMITTEE ON PETITIONS MINUTES 11.59 brs. Shri Thirumala Rao (Kakinada): . beg to lay on the Taole th;, Minutes of RE. DISCUSSION ON NEFA the sittings (Seventh and Eighth) of ENQUIRY REPORT the Committee on Peti'~ions held during the current Session. Shri H. N. Mukerjee (Calcutta Cen tral): Sir, I hope you will forgive me for drawing your attention to one matter in relation to the discussion 11.581 hrs. of the NEFA debacle report. It has MESSAGE FROM RAJYA SABHA caused a great deal of perturbation to many of us, on both sides, I am Secretary: Sir, I ha'/e to report the sure, of the House, that the Minister following message received from the of Defence was pleased, on account .Secretary of Rajya Sabha:- of the arrangement of business made, I suppose, by the Minister of Parlia "In accordance with the provi mentary Affadrs, to give a reply to . sians of rule 125 of the Rules of the debate -on the very same subject Procedure and Conduct d Business in the other House yesterday. I say , 746)11Re. DiscusSion BHADRA '30, 1885 (SAKA) on Neja Enquiry RepOTt 7470 1bis: that this kind of thing is being have concluded their discussion earlier repeated over and over again; ad than we did and the Defence Minis nauseam it has been said and refer ter found it necessary to give his ence has been made to the Constitu reply there earlier. Our friends may tion, that the Ministers are responsible not agree, but I have had experience coUec:tively to this House and not to of that House also. ' the other House, With the utmost Mr. Speaker: Mr. Mukerjee had respect to the other House, I say that not, and therefore he feels it! the p:'inciple of indirect election and of nomination which is the basis of Shri Ranga: Therefore, I can claim the com;>osition of the other HOuse, to appreciate their view and attitude. affects to some extent the sym I do not th'nk there is anything metry of our constitution wh:ch wrong in what the Defence Minister has complete democracy as its has done or in the Paniamentary basis, I am not quarreliing with All'airs Min:ster allow'ng the Defence that. Even during the budget Minister to reply there first when s~ssion, as you yourself have they Were fortunate enough to con bee" pleased to po'nt out, the d:scus c~ude their discuss~on. Rion of the budget in general terms has t-·,ken place several times over Shri Surendranath Dwivedy (Ken in tho! House before it has come up dr3p~ra): Though I agree in princi in this House. ple w t": w":ot Me, Mukerjee has said, on this occasion it \vas a nO!1-o~cial mnt'oCl, The Members of both Houses No'v. in regard to a matter of this h:lve the rig~t to wove a motion at descript on, \.... h~n our Hous~ is taking any moment they like, So, it was a cogni~',~,:'..c:~ of this m::r:'t::r t~lis subject Iloa-efti-;,,! motio" and they conclud is dis::'...:S:i2d ln tile other House pre ed their dis~ussion yesterday. We are vio:.ls:y to the 1vlinis";'2f coming up continuing the d:s~ussion here SOt 1 here to give his version of the case. do not think any right of this House If the Government has any intention has been infringed so far as this is of clipping the wings of th's House, concerned. I can only ss.y that it will not succeed, in view of the att'tude of the people The Minister of Parliamentary of this country, We want to know Affairs (Shri Satya Narayan Sinha): where we stand, and this sort of Since a reference has been made to thing is going on over and over again. me, I would iike to inform the House I wish you give a direction, I wish and you are also aware, Sir, that you to tell the Government, to g'ive according to the schedule we tried a reprimand to them, that this sort our level best that this debate and of thing does not take place. reply should be finished in this House before it was taken up in the other House. But because the House extend 12 hrs. ed the items of business. therefore, Shri Ranga (Chittoor): Sir, before there was no go. We had to do it; you express your view, I wish to say otherWise it would have been abso that I am not in a position to agree lutely difficult. (Interruptions). with my hon. fmend, Shri Mukerjee, Shri Nambiar (Tiruchirapalli): with regard to this matter. On more There is not much work in the other than one occasion. the Prime Minister House, bas had to say here as well as in Mr. Speaker: Of course, my task the other House that both Houses are has been made easier because hon. equal, except in regard to the parti Members have answered each other. eolar question {If the budget. In There is nothing much more add. regard to all other things, they should to be treated as equal. I do not see any Shrimati Renu Chakravartty (Bar reason why we Jlbould be peevish just rackpore): Mr. Kamath is silent on because it has so happened that they this occasion. J.286 (Ai) ~.2 7471 Re. DisC'USsion SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 on Nefa Enquiry Report 7472 Shri Harl Vishnu Kamath (Hoshan very important questions of finance gabad) : Only one of us will ·speak. or taxation and others cannot be made there. So far as this is concerned, The Prime Minister, Minister of there is no harm in doing that. External Affairs and Minister of Nothing has been done to which we Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal should take exception. My fear is, if Nehru): May I assure han. Members we take it up seriously, tomorrow that it is obvious that there is no there would be a debate there. That deep design on the Government's part would not look nice. I am rather to clip the wings of this House? That hesitant to express myself, but the simply means clipping their own Minister of Parliamentary Affairs wings and everybody's wings. But would kindly see that this matter is sometimes it SO happens-you may not extended. It should not again be remember, Sir, that day before yester said that there was discussion there day, it was suggested that the Private and then here. It shOUld end some Members' business might be taken up where. here today, so as to allow the discus sion On the NEFA report to be finish Shri Harl Vishnu Kamath: We ed here. should be careful in future. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: You Shrl Kapur Singh (Ludhiana): Who could have taken it up on Thursday. is the husband, Sir, and who are the Why did you corrode into our time? co-wives? Shrl Satya Narayan SiDha: It could Mr. Speaker: Husband is the whole not be done. Parliament. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I am mere Shri Harl Vishnu Kamath: We ly saying that there was a suggestion must be careful about the next years' that it may be taken up a day later budget debate. in order to get the discussion on NEFA report completed here first and Mr. Speaker: That we will see. Let that suggestion was rejected by hon. us proceed now. Members opposite and presumably by the House. Therefore, we were Shri Krishnapal Singh (Jalesar): forced to do this; we could not ask Sir, I want to bring to your notice the other House to adjourn and do that there is my motion for discus nothing for the whole day. sion today. Mr. Speaker: I did not think I have much to say, though I may just say Mr. Speaker: That cannot be taken in a lighter manner that we should up. I have told him so many times. not behave as co-wives of a helpless I would request him not to ra'se it husband. Both Houses are sovereign here at this moment. He can come and independent in themselves. They to me in the chamber, I will discuss have definite functions to discharge, it with him and if he can convince except of course, special privileges me I will ask the hon. Minister to that have been given to this House. take it up later in the day. First, it was a non-official resolution, as Mr. Dwivedy has said Sernnrllv, Shri Krishnapal Singh: That is all the question of budget is a different that I wanted. one. In this case there was no harm if the Minister made a statement Shri Vasudevan Nair . (AmbaIa there. Of course, the responsibility puzha): Sir, may we know what of the Minister is always there. We business we are going to dispose of have ruled that major statements of today? There is a long list on the policy and other things that do affect Order Paper_ 7473 Re. Discussion on BHADRA 30, 1885 iSAKA) 7474 N efa Enquiry Report Mr. Speaker: Let us decide what 12.08 hrs. we are going to do today. There was DISCUSSION ON NEFA E~QmRY a demand that the time mav be AND MOTION "OUR DEF_ extended for this discussion. There RE. ENCE was also a demand that the motion PREPAREDNESS"-contd. regarding Public Undertakings must Shri P. K. Deo (Kalahandi): Mr. also be taken up. Speaker, Sir, yesterday I was saying that the Government and our Com· Shri Ranga: Introduced. munist friends use the same language in their approach to the Chinese pro Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Moved. blem and how their thinking and appraisal of the situation 1re identi Mr. Speaker: Why should we not cal. In that regard I wanted to finish this by 4 o'clock, take up the quote from Shri Dange's speech on other motion and finish it even if we 12th September, 1959 on the floor of have to sit up to 6 o'clock? this House. Shr! Surendranath Dwivedy: More He said: time would be necessary for thai discussion. "I guarantee that there shall be no invasion-as far as the Prime Mr. Speaker: It that is the desire Minister is concerned he has said of the House, I certainly would not so--with the same confidence I .tand in their way. But I wanted, guarantee that there shall be no and perhaps the hon. Members were invasion as far as China is con also anxious, that this should be cerned. I cannot talk about expedited. others." Sir, on 14th August, 1962, when on Shr! Harl Vishnu Kamath: We behalf of the Swatantra Party I tabled wanted it to be moved. a substitute motion for cons'deration when this same subject was being discussed and urged that to stream Mr. Speaker: All right. Then 1 line our defence efforts we should will call upon the Minister of Defence accept miiitary aid from foreign at 4.00. Only ten minutes will be countries without any strings and also allowed to the other Minister to move demanded that we should get rid of his motion on Public Undertak'ngs. the then Defence Minister who is the How long wili the Minister of Defence root cause of all trouble, we were take for his reply? ridiculed by the Prime Minister. At that time he said: The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. Chavan): 45 minutes. "It is quite absurd to talk about China invading India or that Mr. Speaker: Then at 4.00 I will China has committed aggression. call him. That is bad enough. We should face it and try to get it vacated. Shr! Hari Vishnu Kamath: Is the But imagining that she is swoop Prime Minister participating in the ing down the whole of India and debate? swallowing it has, I submit, nothing to do with reality or pos sibility, even remote possibility Mr. Speaker: That will be seen. of any situation." Let us proceed now. Shri P. K. Deo may continue his speech. Subsequent events have unfolded who is right. In spite of the warning given to the Government from these 1475 SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 NEFA Enquiry and 7476 Motion reo "Our Defence Preparedness" [Shri P. K. Deo]. Regarding communications I beg to benches no action has been taken, no submit that our entire communica lesson has been learnt. But the report tions have been handicapped by lack now says that we are unprepared. I of ro:tds. The vehicles were old and say with all the emphasis at my com defectively m ..:ntained. Crores of mand that this amounts to culpable rupees have been spent on the in famous Tusker Project which adorns negligence or it amounts to deliberate sabotage. the name or our Prime Minister and of our former Defence Minister as the President and the Vi ce-President. Coming to equipment, to wage war Even though our new Defence Minis succEssfully the most essential pre ter has taken cilarge of the Ministry, requisite is that we should have ade his namc has not been associated with quate weapons and warlike stores. It the Tusker Project and he has got is our misfortune that we lack most no:hing to do w·'th the Tusker Pro of them. P:anning has been our ject. The Tusker Project has been watch-,Yord sinc'e we launched our c:ol1spicuous by financ:al irregularities. fi.·"ie-ye3.f plans so many years ago, but Roads on the maps are not good unless H h1d Ettle be~r~ng on defence. No they actually exist. effJrt was made for the production or procurement of essential equip Regarding vehicles the less said the ,,-.e~t. Our former Defence Minister claimed that he modernised the Indian bettcr. This morning Shri Kamath Army and built up the army industry. hqs reminded this Home about the But we ail know how he indulged in jeep scandal. We tom-tommed about dubious projects like coffee percola Shakt;man What happened to its to es, room coolers etc. We know that shakti? Vie all know how lack of the A VRO-748 programme is much comn1unicat·:ons has been the n1ajor behi:-'d scbedule. An average aircraft factor in the NEFA debacle. To set :arr:er and a cruiser were acqu:red up isolated posts without the proper at a coloss,l cost with little relevance supply line virtually amounts to to the immediate danger. In the 15th deiivering our troops as hostages to and the 16th centuries our rulers at the enemy. That is what actually Delhi made the same mistake When happened. the Indian Ocean was infested by pirates and Western adventurers, our So far as the system of command rulers at Delhi never cared to build is concerned, I will be failing in my a navy to protect the Indian shores. duty if I do not point out to this Now when the enemy has been knock House that so far as the NEFA opera ing at the door in the northern border tion is concerned the difficulty arose over crores of rupees had been spent when there was a departure from the in strengthening our Navy wh'ch is accepted chain of command. This mostly utilised for ceremonial exer has been admitted in the report. The cises or for goodwill missions. han. Defence Minister has not hesi tated to mention this fact in his Time and again we have been told statement. It is gratifying to note by the Government that our defence that the general standard of our efforts are being handicapped by junior officers was fairly good but at meagre funds. Is it not true that an the higher level the shortcomings amount of Rs. 132 crores was sur became more apparent. It is the 4th rendered in a period of six years out Indian Division, the crack division of of the budgeted allotment for the the Indian army, which had fought Defence Min.;stry? If it is closely creditably against Rommel's men and studied, it will be found that the per had many victories to its laurels, was "entage of surrender goes on increas routed If India is proud of anything, ing. It was 3.2 per cent in 1957-58 then Ind.:a is proud of her fighting and it has risen now to 6.1 per cent. men. If you study the pagel!.. of his- 7477 Di8euuion 011 BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKA) NEFA Enqui~ aM 74" Motion re "Our Defence Preparedness" tory, you will always find that when particular persons cannot Be named ever the Indian Army faced any individually. major reverses, it was not due to the fault of the fighting forces, but it was Shri Ranga (Chittoor): He stands always the Generals and the leaders condemned by his own party. who had let them down, whether it Mr. Speaker: That is a different was at Panipat or it was at Piassey. matter. I am only laying down what the procedure in the ParLiament To keep up the morale of the Armed Forces is the primary duty of debate should be. every Government. We have seen Shri P. K. Deo: The report has been how many experienced young Generals conspicuous by the fact that there have been retired premature:y, and was constant interference from Delhi. one them had serious public differ 0: The report has rightly said that ences with the then Defence Minister. details of operations should have been A B~:gadier was promoted overnight, left to the ofIicers on the spot, but superseding many fellow officers, and this was never done. he was the person who played the dicastrous r:lle as the corps commander Ano"her thing which comp;etely in the NEFA operations. Now, we be'Ni:dc~'s m.e is the announCEment of learn that he has been profitably the P.:lrn(~ 1tlinis~er prior to his dcr-nr... reh:l~"'il:t2ted in some company. tUre to Ce:y As regards equipment, I shall restrict In the end, may I say that this myse!! to welcoming the doubling of enquiry should be regarded, not as a the rate of production in our ordnance post mortem, but as a diagnosis. It is factories since the em€rgency, and to but an incident in a developing situa a few words regarding the project to tion. Listening to my han. friend Shri manufacture MIGs in India. Shri Prakash Vir Shastri yesterday, I could Prakash Vir Shastri also referred to not help feeling that he wasted too it. The scheme is to have two factories, much of his golden eloquence in flogg one at Nasik to manufacture the fuse ing a dead horse. The real usefulness lage and the other at Koraput in Orissa of the NEFA enquiry lies not in fa uIt to manufacture the engines. I agree finding, but in paving the way to ·a· 7487 Discussi011 011 SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 NEFA Enquiry and 7488 Motion reo "Our Defence Preparedness" [Shri K. C. Pant]. proper reconditioning of the armed in Florida at that time and they asked forces vis_a-vis the task they face on my reaction, I said that war between the country's boroers. It is on this China and India had started; it is not aspect and on the efforts mad~ by going to last less than five years; it Government since November last to may last even 25 years. So, we have to make good the deficiencies of the Army think of this affair, not as a sing;e that the debate in this Hou~ could incident which is complete or which most purposefully focus the attention has ended but we have to think of ,of the country. NEFA or Sela or Bomdila as one of the first event in the war that is going on Before 1 sit down, may 1 quote : between China and India. In the ini few words of wisdom addressed by Sir tial stages it is the aggressor who has Winston Churchill to the House ot got th~ obvious advantages. He is well Commons in June, 1940, after the shat prepared for it. However mighty or rering military disaster of Dunkirk. armed an army -might be, it cannot This is what he said, and what he said have that advantage which an aggres has a lesson for us too: sor has got as the Chinese were aggres sors, they got those advantages. So, th~ reverses we had at Bomdila or Sela "I am not reciting these facts for should not be exaggerated. the purpose of recrimination. That 1 judge to be utterly futile and even harmful. We cannot afford it. The second factor is the character at "Now 1 put all this aside. 1 put our Army. Our Army is known for it on the sh~Jf, from which the his its daring, valour and courageous stand. torians, when they have time, will If yOU happen to be in the UK, every select their documents to tell their other man seems to know something stories. We have to think of the about our Army; th~y have a high future and not of the past. There word for the Fourth Division: it has a are many who would hold an inquest great name all over the world. The in the House of Commons on the point is that this division or for that conduct of the Governments,-and matter the entire Army was formed of Parliaments, for they are in it too, not for defensive purposes but rather for offensive purposes. went to --during the years which l~d up to It this catastrophe. Africa, Europe, Burma, Singapore, Malaya and so many places to take offensive: it knew to fire and march "They seek to indict those who forward, Here, for the first time they were responsible for the guidance at were confronted with a situation where our affairs. This also would be a they had to sit, stand and wait and foolish and pernicious process. Of then fire. This was an entirely now this I am quite sure, that if we open strategy which they had to face and a quarrel between the past and the in my opinion they faced it very well. present. we shall find that we have You cannot mention Sela and forget lost the future." Chushul. In Chushul We fared far better and we showed our superiority, Shri Reda (Nizamabad): Mr. Spea courage and valour because there we ker, what surprises me most is that had the experience and we had been two basic factors are ignored by the entrenched for a long time. But at Opposition when speaking on NEFA Sela, 14000 feet high altitude, the Army or similar matters: They are the had hardly reached that place when duration and the course of this war. they had to face difficulties. At such ~ massive attack on our soil by altitudes it is not so easy to acclima Chinese Army took place in October tise oneself, especially for people from . last. I happened to be in Cainsville the plains. Discussion on BHADRA 3D, 1885 (SAKA) NEFA Enquiry and 74g<' Motion reo "Our Defence Preparedness" Then why did the Chinese cease fire? cular region and some particular No Member of the Opposition dealt castes. Nowadays, we find the same with it. After covering such a long thing. A number of persons from terrain and reaching Sela or even Foot.. other areas were refused though their hills, why did they not march forward? health was good and they had the The reason is: they saw how the coun necessary height, chest measurements, try got agitated and stood as one man; etc., and they were quite satisfactory. It was not bullied and it took a firm When people from Assam demanded decision to fight back. The Chinese a recruiting centre, a centre was had therefore no other alternative but started but again recruitment did not to cease fire. They had sent a good take place. number of forces upto Sela: their 8Upply line between Sela and Walong Shrimati Jyotsna Chanda (Cachar): was very thin and therefore it was not Recruitment is going on in Assam. possible for them to hold a long time. Shri Heda: 1 am saying that the So many stories have been said by number recruited is not satisfactory. friends from the Opposition and I was There is a good reason for it. What surprised that they did not refer to I am saying is that when the people the most important part. 1 do not from the new regions; from where the know whether it is a fact or not. That recruitment was not taking place, offer is immaterial but what is material is themselves, we should give them pre how people feel and react to it. Is it ference. When people from the neW not in the knowledge of Mr. Prakash castes and communities which were Vir Shastri that when Gen. Chaudhuri not known as martial communities or was appointed, his first task was to ffy castes come forward, we should give to Gauhati and to ask our Army men some preference to them because they to go back to Tezpur. He brushed the are the people who have departed question of shifting the headquarters from their ordinary run of life, the life from Tezpur to Siliguri. This was an of their ancestors, and they want to act which created a tremendous feel join the army to serve the country and ing in Army, in Gauhati also: I was die for the country. Therefore, that in Assam for more than a fortnight enthusiasm and determination goes along with other Members of Parlia very long. From this angle, we should ment. It had a great impact on our make the necessary changes in this Army and the civilian population and regard. they were prepared to give a very good fight. I know General Chaudhuri No doubt, what happened at Sela or well as he had been in Hyderabad for Bomdila was not a good thing. But it a long time. I casually met him but agitated the entire country. 1 found did! not try to find out the truth a very important change coming among because what is material is the impres the people of Assam. The people of sion you create. On that day when Assam, as you know, had never seen Chaudhuri came on the scene and tack war for the last many centuries, may the command, the entire psychology be 10 or 20 centuries. Even in the last was changed and they were confident war, Netaji did come there with the that they would go on from victory to Indian National Anny for a short victory. time . . . (inteTTUption). In this context, you will have to see Mr. Speaker: Order, order. certain other things too. My hon. friend Shri Bhakt Dharshan referred Shri Hecla: Netaji did come there, to the recruitment. For some histori and even the Britishers and American cal reasons, so good and some not so soldiers were stationed there. But the good, the British Government recruit actual fight which Punjab had experi ed people for the Anny from a parti- enced, which Rajasthan had experi- 7491 Discussion on SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 NEFA Enquiry and 749% Motion reo "Our Defence Preparedness" [Shri Heda] enced, which these bord-er States had the sadd-est chapter in the history of experienced, has not been experienced free India. We are discussing the fai by Assam. I am not casting any asper lure of the Government to prevent sion. I come from a State which also aggression and to defend the frontiers· did not experienc-e any war for the of the country. It is true that W"e do last many centuries. So, that is not the not in anyway share the blame or res point. The point is that the people ponsibility for the tragedy that befelI have a particular outlook in a border our coun:ry: nonetheless the stigma oi State and the people have a different dishonour on our motherland attaches outlook in a State which is not a bor and clings to all of us alike. I am, der State. howe"er, encouraged to speak for, there is the oid adage of our fore Mr. Sp~aker: Orller, lOrder. There fathers who have said this-and that is t31king across th'2 Benches. it the natural difficulty in which many of us find ourse:ves today: Shri Heda: Now, Assam has become a bOI'ier State and I am very happy to lj"'f"fT: 'pnr: <:r;q We'" f~'n~ find that Assam has got an oCltlo;)k of a corder State whiCh is prepared to msr'~"z; q~~ "I' 'i'flr >~lTI ~ ,\i.,:" I I die for th~ country, and it is becomlng a martial race. I am quite certain that I t;.'ust th::t t!12 De:2;:2~ l'.!:~~c-t<,; .... ~.'Till in the future anaals of our history, be taking the few submisoions that As;am will have a great role. have to m:1ke to him in this light. The Assamese generally are peace Though the Defence Minister has loving by nature. But today the Assa tri'<-':-d to take this House into cO:1fid mese is entirely different. He has ence and to m1kp aV3ihhlc to us sc:ne a\vaken·cJ.; he is consciClu3 of his we3.k of the findings. he was. I think, held ness; he has the preparedness to back by his loyalty to his colleagues. defend, and he anxious to overcome is But I want this to be submitted to any difficulty. you look at any If you: that it is the right of this House young Assamese boy or girl, you will to be told th" whole truth. I am not ieel convinced that Assam has entirely going to defend my or base my changed today. Their youth is fearless caS'2 plea on the promise the Prime Minis and is ready to face any -eventuality. ter made 0" the II:>0r of the Rajya The Assam S.ate can be a good ground Sabha alo!lc. but I do plead that Par for recruitment to our army, navy and liament is entitled to know the whol.,. air force. They have some oi our truth. And his persistence in with finest talents. The people are already holding from Parliament all that it is awake and ar-e in a militant mood. enti:led to know, apart from being an They are happy to sacrifice their all insupportable encroachment on Par for the freedom 0; the countr;,·. liament's prerogatives and perhaps a' This is a very big advantage. I am calculated contempt of its authority, quite certain that the psychology only strengthens the suspicion that the created in Assam and all over the coun Government dare not tell the peopl.,. try has been a great boon, and with the whole truth and face the conse that psychology as an asset, the future quences. The Government have vest course of the war between India and ed interest in suppressing the truth, China-history will see and will see we and the specious and unconvincing plea -wi!] be in favour of us, and. we will is used-the plea of national interests show ourselves far b-etter. is used-to shield the Government's Shri Nath Pal CRajapur): Mr. own vulnerability to the charge of hav Speaker, Sir, I feel no sense of elation ing failed in its elem-entary duty to or enthusiasm in participating in defend this country. today's debate because the subject Having said this, I would like to ask matter of today's discussion is perhaps the Defence Minister a few questiofts 7493 Discussion on BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKA) NEFA Enquiry and 7494 Motion reo "Our Defence Preparedness" which arise out of the statement which who may be innocent, that we demand he has placed on the Table of the this full enquiry. It is the only way of House. First, ~re all those who were defending those who may be innocent. concerned with the defence of our Let us not have witch-hunting; it is country during those fateful days bld but white-washing is worse. But I were all of them--'examined by this would like to tell the Government that Committee? Was the Prime Minister in war ultimately discipline and the examined? Was the then Defence Min morale of the army are part of the ister examined? It is true that no whole defence apparatus. What is flo- minutes are maintaiiled, no records ing to happen to th'cir morale, to the are maint3ined, of some very important discipline which is geared to this ao top-level conferences that took place pantus? Already I hear the impres among the D'2fence Mi:Jister and senior sion is getti:1g rou:Jd that when a militarvofficials. I would like to know Dener"l may lose the b1ttle-all that win! t-l'anspircd at a me-etLlg on the h1P~':'~E is this-he wi!! be transferred 17th Octcber. \'lhat was the estimste from one job to another job. This will m:iGc? No security is involved i!1 thi:;, be an extremely d~ngC'rous prec"edpnt. and I am going to talk something about I am not going to ta:k about any mdi security. vidu1.l. It h:J.s never l:1ierc3ted m'2 in the P3.st: it does not i!1tercst me now. I sholll:! also like to get a10 answer But t:,e:::c arc m1tters of very vital im- to thi:--; question: W'2rc al1 relcv3l1t port to us. They cannot be brmhed documl2nts made avail3.bJe to th1S COffi aside b:: raising a b1s-e plea. mi-;.~ion? Had they access tn all the relcva:lt material? 'Vere anybody who Vi ",ted to depOSe allowed (0 depose HOWe\·Pi. \\'~1t the rc)ort discloses befor'2 this co:nm:s'::lon? A~d finJlly, is such an a:arming. shockiY' g state of wl"t docs the cDmmission tell us, apart u'1prep3.rcdnes" th1t irrllgination shud from what has been included in the ders at the co~templation of what the statement of the present Defence Min whole truth may be like. In brief, ister? Does the commission fasten any tbis statem2nt of the Defence Minister rc'ponsibility on anybody for wh}t has admits that because of sheer incompe happened? Does it completely absolve tenc·e. because of an almost insane pelitical leadership for the dehac;e in obstinacy and immeasunble irrespon NEFA? If at all he holds himse;f re; sibility on the part of those who were ponsible, the answers must be provid charged with the defence of the coun ed to these questions, and it is for this try, the once proud army was subject reason tbat I tell him once a.~am: ed to the humiliation of being beaten Shri Chavan, yesterday, with a degree on its own soil. The nation's pride was of success, has resisted this demand for wounded; its honour compromised, its a further enquiry. I would plead with very existence as a free nation endan him that this country will not rest gered_ Mr. Chavan's statement admits content, you will not have heard the that such an injury was infiioted on last on the demand for an enquiry, till this nation, but it refuses to disclose a full presidential enquiry is instituted who were responsible for this injury and we all know all that has happened. and this anxiety is there under the pretext of national security. This an Do not level this charge of witch xiety to shield the guilty is paraded as hunting. Witch-hunting, persecution, being the paramount necessity of na victimisation, are against the very tional security. The public must be grain of Our national character. It runs kept in the dark in public interest counter; it is repugnant to the spirit indeed extraordinary logic! of tolerance which permeates our de mocracy. It is only because we seek 13 lIrs. io put an end to witch-hunting, be eause We want that the clouds of sus About security, I should like to ask picion and doubt do not fall on those a' few pertinent questions. The Prime 7495 Discuss,on on SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 NEFA EnquiTy and 749" Motion reo "Our Defence Preparedness" [Shri Nath Pai] Minister sp-eaking in the debate on were being built, including where the foreign affairs observed that there is new radar instal.ations WIll be put up, a China lobby ill this country. He dep was made available. It is now denied lored it by s3ying "unfortunately, there by one Ministry that any such map is a China lobby in this country". The was made. I would like to know from strongest expression this master of the Defence Mini,ter whether the map English language can find to describ-e exis!ed or not and whether it was the existence of organised treason is smuggled out or not. If it is so, why "unfortunate", It is OUf misfortune do yOU try to protect anyb:Jdy by say that his reactions to these vital matters ing that they are not ex:sting? Whose like treason and defence have of late purpose is served by these interrup become so lukewarm, so watery. I tions, I do not understand. We can all would like to ask him now this thing be together, I think, in having an about this China lobby. Is it not a interest in security, in seeing that nC) fact, or are we once again indulging potential enemy knows anything in witch-hunting, that there is a China about our country. lobby working in the Foreign Minis try? Would he deny that th-ere is a I should now like to come to another China lobby working-I will quote aspect. From the Defence Minister's somebody now-in the Defence Minis statement. certain pertinent points try? Would this Government be bold arise. Mr. Chavan's statement, pin enough to tell the people of this coun pointing this extraordinary state of try that there is not a Chines-e cell, a unpreparedness of this country, says pro-Chinese cell in every secretariat, that there were 1).0 arms even for active, organised, and masterminded? training, much less for defence; there Mr. Rawle Knox .... (Interruptions.) was nO proper orientation; there was no transport; there were no proper I heard this kind of absurd interruD roads, no equipment, no intelligence, tions; the sam-e little group interrup no leadership, no command. All these ted me, when I was speaking on the e.ements which make up the complex same defence debate. When I said pattern of the apparatus of modern that there was no ammunition, no com defence were missing. Nothing was mand, no shoes and no arms, they got available, which forms the figh:ing up in a chorus and sJid, "N 0, no, no". arm of the country. Only, we had a Mr. Chavan had to say "Yes, yes, yes" v~ry active Defence Minister and a after six man .hs. So, be careful before v~ry expensive Defence Ministry! In interrupting me. spi te of these vital deficiencies, each of which would have destroyed the I would like to say a;so that this fighting capacity of any army. our security bu;iness is raised to rob Par soldiers fought valiant"y and bravely liament of its right. But the rest a ~ the at Walong and Chushul against a foe, world know,-we are not happy that again;t an adversary whJ was b~tter it knows, but it is a fact that the rest equipped and had every advantage in of the world knows. I want a catego_ inclement weather and in an unaccu rical answer from the Defence Min_ stomed terrain. That is a matter on ister about this disclosure which first which the whole nation can be legiti appeared in a Bombay paper, and we mately proud. It only shows that were all worried. We have nothing to basically our armed forces are sound do with the ethics or politics of any and are capable of great deeds of paper. But when a matter touching heroism and sacrifice in the honour of upon the defence of the country is in OUr country, provided they are pro volved, we all get necessarily agitated perly led and properly equipped. and concerned. It was said that the photostat copy of a certain map point The repC)rt admits an extraordinary Ing some of our new airstrips, which state Gt unpreparedness so fll{ as the 7497 Discussion on BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKA) NEFA Enquiry and 7498 Motion reo "Our Defenee Preparedness" defence of the country is concerned. matters, that it shows lack of How did it come to happen? The concern, that there are nO shoes, Prime Minister, whenever an occas;on no warm clothing, to say such a came, was assuring the country how thing is improper." thoroughly we were prepared. Some Members have already referred to it. Every time an anxious enquiry was Those words were ringing in my ears, made by thi, side-{)£ course, I have because I took comfort when he told to draw a line somewhere here- Us that the House need not be anxious. either we were ridiculed or a faise t remember in reply to a question of kind of statement was made that mine in April, 1962, he said-the next everything was all right. day it became banner headliDe, because everybody was happy to have May I now ask, who perpetuated this assurance from his lips-when I this tremendous fraUd On this coun asked, "What is yOUr overall estimate? try that the country was prepared to Where do we stand with regard to take up any enemy from any quarter? this danger?", he said, "Broadly N ow, they come round and tell us speaking, generally speaking, the mili. three different pleas are advanced: tary balance has tilted in our favour". fa) We did not have the money; Ib) That was said in April, 1962. May I we were taken by surprise; and (c) read out the whole thing? He said, the army command was Sandhurst oriented. I want to raise four perti "We have always attached a nent questions today. Who under_ great importance to NEFA border estimated Ule Chinese menace? Who for various reasons and we have kept on telling the country that the succeeded in protecting it country' was prepared? Who was res.. adequately." ponsible for the state of complete un preparedness later on discovered? How well it was protected till the Who then struck a posture of im_ hour of trial came! Til! then it was pregnability, of being almighty in face very ably pro:ected. Time and again of this unpreparedness? We were having these assurances: I will take up the question of money obody is left unconnected "N now. Mr. Chavan has referred to it with the base and therefore yesterday and made my task easy. He weakened. Everything is being said, it is true we return money year done. If I may m3ke a broad after year, but every Ministry does statement, I think the situation that. Is that an adequate explana h3s broad:y changed progressive. tion? Is the responsibility of other ly in our favour." Ministries as onerous as that of your This is ano~her statement. office? Is it the same thing to us that the money is returned because a fac I must be fair to the man principal. tory was not built and money is re ly ch 1rged wi th OUr defence. It will be turned because a strategic road is not the height of impertinence not to re built? Are these two things on a fer to the assurances given by t.he par? For nine years, money was then Defence Minister. The then De being returned at the rate--I have fence Minister told the Rajya Sabha: calculated it-of 7 per cent of the grants that were voted by this House, "With regard to explosives, for on an average. But that is not my the first time, this country is like charge. The main thing is, again and ly to be self_sufficient." again, the Prime Minister and the De_ fence Minister and every spokesman Shri Krishna Menon, in the Lok and everybody who . takes up the res Sabha debate on 9th April, said: ponsibility on himself of defending "Therefore, to say that Gov. the Prime Minister, tells us that we· emment is oblivious of these had to make a choice between prior- 7499 Discussion on SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 NEFA Enquiry and 7500 Motion re; "OuT Defence PTepaTedness" [Shri N ath Pai ] soon"? Have not We read that Mr. ities for defence and for development. Mao Tse-tung in one of his writings When did they come to this House? said that China will reclaim her old When did they come with a blue. territories of Bhutan Nepal and Silt.. p;int, with a White Paper giving the kim and China will' resurrect itself? details of their requirements? When Had he not been telling us how he did this House commit the crime of proposes to do i,1 And, what abololt saying "no" to them? When did we the maps which were being changed reduce even by a single naya paisa demanding greater and greater chunks the demands of the Defence Ministry? of our national terri,ory? Were Th.s remains perhaps the only Par. these not warnings? After 12 years of liament in the world where every every possible manifestation of grant of the Defence Ministry has the enemy's evil inten- been vOled unanimomly for not one tion towards this country, yeelr but for 17 ;o"g O'e"rs. But still after 12 years of hl~ mounting enmity, they will come round and tell us that of his incre3.sing bellico3iLy, this Gov we do not hlve the money. Did you ernment h3s the check to turn round ask for it? Did we deny it? Were you and tell us that \'le were taken by ever short? Bu~ Cle plea is raised. su.;,·prise bJ the st..dcienness of the Wh3t a se'lS" of gra:itude and £oiJ· C 1cmy's att;;ck. l~.u th.:!y expect the pby to this House which has been SO Ch.n(2:;2 t'J anncu ll,e their intention co_op('rlfv~~ w~th the Government in with a be3.t of t..:.l Ch:'~ as we are used these matteI'llI to announce the arrival of our leaders h the village:?? The Chinese had No\v, tl1e,::e is this pL':l about being done every~h~~~g ·... o5sibie to warn us. laken by surprise. 12 yelrs of warn_ ings arLO not sufficient for this Gov The truth or ,he motter is thOlt ttis· ernment to be aW8kcned to its sense Government did not understand, did of duly. The Prime Minister said, in not realise iliJ H~ll grasp the true a quotation which I referred to ear_ dimensions' aad th~ magnitude, the lier, that we were seized of this ques_ true s"gnificaucc end the meaning of tion from 1950. May I now ask a few the menace pIlJI- d b) Chinese expan quesjons? Can this plea of the Prime sionism. The }'CU50ns are very sim Minister made in the House that we ple. They n: e 1I,tel igent peopJe; were taking note and living up to it am~ng the mu:.t ;nlelligent people in since 1950 be reconciled with the pre the world we c; 11 rank some of them. sent claim of the Government that we But what ha;l/;,tc. thpn? Why did were taken by surprise? Was not the they in 'pile uf "I, this allow them_ warning given by the raPe of Tibet selves to '0£ So m·; Shrimati Renu Chakra'lartty (Bar I would submit to yOU that I have rackpore): What happens in the club seen wounded men, limbless men who and the mess? are sent out with a small pension. There is nO furlher reco~n·,tion of Shri S. M. Banerjee (Kanpur): their va~our and the~r ;12i'J.1.:)m. There What about the club? is no attempt made to resettle Clr re employ or rehabilitate these men. Do Shti Ravindra Varma (T!uruvella): you except these men to gIve up The hon. Member opposite seems to their lives just because this lie USe and be more interested in clubs than in the country are able to giVe enough defence. money towards it? You w.!! have to give more than that. Yo.! will not Shrimati Sharda Mukerjee: am only have to infuse thom and in;plre referring to the jawans. I am not them with natiOnal g~Oly and a sense referring to the officers. of heroism and patriotism, but you Shd Hati Vishnu Kamath: The will have to be prepared to giVe your han, Member said that there was sons, and you will have b be pre mixing. pared to give your :,usJ"nds, I would JOke to know how many of us Shrimati Sharda l\lukerje~: I am arE: doii'!!?; that. I do n.Jt like rl-:f2r referring to the mixing between the ence being made time and again to officers and jawans and ~~iIT'l~l~ Shri C. K. Bhattacharyya (Rai- 'f.T l;ffl'U m t ~ I ~'tf~Tll'nft ri ,anj): Raghunath Singhji i. in the midst of his emotion. ~mu~t~~~ ~fiI;Irr~$~~~ '1ft 1:\tlfToq m~: 'If walT~wRWI".rr.fT'fit~ l\" mq 'l>'T wm;fi'l f~ ~ ~~ ~f'f> ~~r.ro; eft ~ ',! ~,ar~~m arm m:'IiR oi'\1r ;;nft;T ~ W ri'iT, 'ffl: ~ ~: mff fu'Cff;;r.r m 'R ~, ~ ltu lIT~)~m~~i[Tl:l!I ~~ ~f.I; ~'litm ~'iTl~~'!ilI~ i'f'fiiI;fT ~ $;f\';f 'lit ~ l!~ ~ ~ f.I; ;ffi;fut ;;iT ~ i[T;ft ~', ~ ~ ~ "!;:r en 'Pc; ~ fq; ~ ~ it Ill, ~ ~ f~ ~ 'f>t;r ~ m~m r;tT 'lC?T I WR ~R if; ~ ;;r Shri BanllJlllUltbai,.a: It had been Shri SureDdraDath Dwlvedy: No happening in this Ministry alI alona body has .uggested that. t'1~ budget-making process. It has lShri Ua.uumantbai,.a: The army at been happening in other ministries ell levelB might have done better or a"~. Therefore to get into a mood of might not have done better-I am personal rancoUT and attribute all not an expert-but the report itself sorts of motives to a particular per makes it clear that there wert' seve "On is not the kind of psychology that ral deficiencies. 1 meet as a commoll ought to pervade our mind, in this man many a soldier or jawan sa you hour crisis, of "'y. In Hindi, who was on the front. I am particularly anxiou. and I They are bitter against their officen, have a premonition that the Chinese the lowest ranks of officers, that is, the will again attack. The very people Captains. Lieuten&ntt. and Buch othen. who expected the Chinese not to They sa,. that they never eave 1h. attack India said that they placed faith inspiring lead that ought to have been in Chinese friendship rather wrongly ,; Yen b,. the immediate officers. It 18 and they eonfessed that the,. were de eaay to blame men at the top. I cI. ceivetl. Let us !lOt be deceived a,ain not defend them either. We. ,.... v. te 7553 Discu.srion on BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKA) NEFA EnquiTIl and 77554 MotiQll re: "Our Defence Preparedness" hold them responsible ~cause, after Shrl HlUlWDlUltha1:ra: Then what ill all, power is vested in them. But to the 'good of my comparlnj/ TaU to Mr. put a veneer on all our jawans and H.!lrold Wilson? officer, by saying that they are the best of individuals and to say that 15 11ft. only the people in the highu ranks .are the worst sinners ia a way of ar ShrI~: I did not ask lor it. gument which I cannot appreciate. That it a cheap jibe which il un worthy of my hon. friend. The army that haa been trained, as has often been described by the han. Silri BaaumaJlthaiya: sh.all only Prime Minillter and the hon. Minuter quote two passages for the ilJidance of Defence now and previously, was of the Defence Ministry from TIl. tra'ned in the British way •. A. you Memoir. of Field-Marshal Montgomery, know, methods Of warfare, equip and then I shall conclude my speech. ment, startegy and all these thines c;lang" from year to year, from war The real lacuna, as is admitted in to war and this army was not trained the report, it want of leadership. upto, what is called, the stan dud of Field-Marshal Montgomery saYl that warfare required for the occasillll. It the leadership it the most important there was any rigidity, I can tell you element In commanding an Army. it was not at the stage of the Minis And he define "Finally, I do not believe that There was the admission of overall today a commander can inspire shortage of equipment, the admission great armies, or single units, or in of lack of proper roads and transport, dividual men, and lead them to of an unsatisfactory intelligence orga achieve great victories, unless· he nisation. These admissions by them has a proper sense of religioU1l selves are especially a grave indict truth; he must be prepared'to ment of the former Defence Minister. acknowledge it, and to lead his Perhaps, some of the things that 1 troop;; in the light of that truth. might say of the former Defence He must always keep his finger on Minister may sound a little bitter, but the spiritual pulse of his armies; let me say at the outset that I am he must be sure that the spiritual bitter, and 1 am resentful against the purpose which inspires them Is former Defence Minister, not for any right and true, and is clearly ex personal reason; I want to pay him pounded to one and all. Unless he t his personal tribute that unlike most does this, he can expect no lasting of the other Ministers, he had a cer success. For all leadership, I be-:; tain definite capacity for hard work, lieve, is based on the spiritual' and he was one of the few Ministers quality, the power to inspire who when I .ent a case or a problem, others to follow .... "oaIt with it promptly, and in most of the cases that I sent to him he 8hri Frank Anthony (Nominated ,lealt with them very satisfactorily. Angl()-;Indians): I feel that most of My resentment is purely on principle. u, in this House agree with many of the sentiments that have fallen from the Defence Minister. As he has told It had become a habit with the for us, this NEFA inquiry was intended to mer Defence Minister deliberately to bring out the mistakes and deficiencies keep this House and the country in the of the past and to ensure that they dark. Whenev"," we asked for infor would not be repeated. I agree wih him mation, however innocuous, and how- when he says that there should be a ever advcrsised it was in the world need, and there is a need, for a pro press, he was in the habit of fobbing per perspective for our not saying or lIS off with supercilious and rather doing anything that' might give infor dyspeptic replies, suggesting that we mation to the enemy or that might were ignoramuses while he was the demoralise our own fighting men. 1 sole repository of all knowledge and alncerely hope that we are really OD capacity in defence matters. ",1 had 7557 rn.cU8sion on BHADRA 30, 11185 (SAKA) NEFA Enqu.iry and 7558 Motion re: "Our Defence Preparedness" occasion over and over. again to criti which does not impinge remotely on cise him for this supercilious habit. security, and whose publication would And the few admissions that have have fortified the morale of the nation, been made in this rather cryptic state the part which would have vindicated m~nt have been sufficient to show that Our fighting men, has beeu deliLerately the repeated categorical assurances withheld from this House merely r would not elaborate them-of the because its disclosure would have been former Defence Minister 3bout our a damning indictment of the former having. not only adequate but in Defence Mmister. That is why I am creasingly adequate defence prepara resentful. I believe the whole Indian tions, I am sorry to say, were rep.eated Army today is resentful, and bitterly categorical untruths intended delibe re:;entful, because in order to cover rately to mislead this House and the the guilt of one man, the former country. Defence 1I.':'l .. 13tt!f, there has been a gratuitouo tarnis~ling of 1.11e image of I am not unduly worried by some of our inconlparable jawans, tnere has the deficiencies that have been pointed been a gratuitous tarnishing of the out in the statement. I am not un image of Our senior officers. Some of duly worried by the reference to tile them wo~ld be a credit to the best failure of certain middle-aged officers. arm:?5 in the world. I think the De I am not condoning anything, but I fence Minister said that the defects say this that in any Army, particularly W2re mOot apparent at tile higher in an Army which has functioned over levels; and it was quite clear that ·by a fhirly long period of peace, you will the 'higher leve:s' he meant Major find these deficiencies, middle-aged Generals and above. I am sorry that officers, and people who become soft h2 should have given the impression or who have degenerated, if I may of a sweeping indictment. It was use that expression, into pot-bellied neither fair nor just. Most of us know pen-pushers. They are known as pot who the two Major Generals were. bellied pen-pushers; there is a special The communists, of course, have run name for them in the Indian Army, true to form. Their whole technique and they are known as Agra briga is to demoralise the country, to demo diers. And it is UP which has the ralise our army. to damn our Generals palm for producing pot-bellied pen to save their political henchmen. They pushers or otherwise. And in the best damned personally one of the Major regulated Army, there will be defi Generals. I do not know him perso ciencies of leadership at all levels, at nally. I know of him. I know this unit levels, and at higher levels, parti that he had one of the finest records cularly in peace-time Armies; they in the Indian army. That by itself is tenj to become soft; they tend to be not a gua~antee that he would make come decorative, and when political a good General. How do you expect leadprshiu has no rapport with the even the best or Generals to get on Armv and has very little military top of this tremendous confusion? And thinking, they tend to be diverted to they had to do it in the space of a few peace-time nurmits. And did we not hours. see the debilitating spectacle of f ]ht ing tro 1pS being diverted to building What I want is this, that this House hous~s. and the officers, allegedly fight and the country should not spell out ln~ offieers-I have used the word the notorious failure of the Opera 'allegedlv' advisedly because they tional Corps Commander into a sweep were favourites at the political court,- ing ind.ictment of all OUr Generals. being decorated for building ho'~ses? His failure was there. It was a noto riou< failure; it was an expected What I feel is this, that the most failure. vital part of the report, the part which deals with political directions and with political misdirections, the part Shri Ranga: Expected? SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 NEFA Enquiry and 7560' Motion reo "Our Defence Preparedness" Shri FraDk Anthony: I will tell you. Corps Commander. I regret to say it I say it was his failure. But per that over and over again palpable un haps in a sense-I am talking of the truths were relayed to this House. Over and over again, we were told CoI"Ps Commander-it was not 60 much his own failure as the crime of that this General had a fine lighting record. I regret to have to say it, but th~ former Defence Minister. And I aay it advisedly. I say this because I then I have to repel palpable un truths. Throughout the Army, he hav" some knowledge--I cannot dis was known, as the Army knows. as cl03e it to this House, because I am often, very often, consulted profes 'Khacchar Corps General'. sionally by people in all ranks of the Shri Sham Lal Sarat: Question. Anny-.and I know a good deal 01 what has happened in the past. But Shri Frank Anthony: I know a good I know this also that Shri Krishna deal. I do not want to go into details. Menon played havoc wi~h the senior Shri Sham La] Sarat: I know much ranks of the Indian Army. He sought more. steadily to purge the Indian Army of its best fighting Generals because they Shri Frank Anthony: I know a little had too much self-respect, they had more than you. too much moral courllge to submit to his political dictation. He sought deli His whole experience was that of a berately to create around him a caucus supply and transport officer. He was of courtier-politician officer who known in the military messes as an would do hIs political bidding. He officer, as one of the few senior offi- sent of the Army-I could give the cers who had not heard a short fired names, but I do not want to-some of even in anger. our finest fighting Generals, when they Shrl Balkrishna Wasnlk (Gondia): should have been kept. Some were On a point of order. virtually compelled to resign. I could name them, because I know some of Shri Frank ARthony: I am not giv- their cases, but I won't. ing way. As I said, he played utter, absolute, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is a point havoc with the senior ranks of the of order. Let me hear him. Indian Army. And not onLy the senior ranks of the Indian Army. He was Shri Balkrishna Wasnik: The hon. known to intervene in selection right Member is using the names of Gene down to Lt. Col. level rals. As a senior parliamentarian, I do Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He did not not want to refer personally to any mention any name. one. But I say this that his appoint ment of the former Chief of the Army Shri Balkrishna W&SIllk: He refer Sh'1' wa, a deliberately nepotistic red to the Corps Commander. political appointment. He might have Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He referred been an exceedingly good person as an to the rank. individual. But it was known through out the Indian Army that he had noth Shri Balkrishna Wasnik: He had al ing of the image of some of its for ready mentioned the name and then mer fighting Generals. He was put the Speaker had to take exception to there because it was known that he it. was ineffective, It was known that he would be completelv ineffective, to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No names withstand the manipulations 01 may be mentioned. Mr. Krishna Menon. Shrl Frank Anthony: 1 have not But the greatest crime of all was mentioned the name. Unfortunately, the appointment of the Operational others have. They have either con- 7561 Discussion 011 BHADRA 30, 1685 (SAKA) NEFA Enquiry Bnd 756. MotiOTt. re: "Our De/eft(!e Preparedness" demned him by name Or sought to de_ to:n because he had already injected fend him. I know quite enough. You into the army for the first time thi. will be surprised if I mention names pernicious political virus. and facts. 1 say that the most serio'lS questhn 8hri A. N. VidyalaJlkar (Hoshiar that emerges from this whole m'lulry pur): He pretends to know more than is this. If it was merely chronic in he knows. competence, you get it in the bc~ regulated nations. It it was merely 8hri Frank Anthony: I know a little gross negligence, that also happens. If more than you--certainly which end of it was merely the pretensions of n the rifle to hold when using a rifle. megalomaniac who saw himself in t11., role of a diminutiVe Hitler, ,hat Dlso Ai I was saying, this unIortunate sometimes happens. But th" question man was more sinned against than sin that is being asked today is: was it ning. My hon. friend, Shri Hanuman much more than any or all of these thaiya, just said that monle of any things. Wa sit deliberate sabotage? army depended on its leadership. I agree with him. As soon as the I say this, that as long as the Gov· appointment of this unfortunate, unfit, ernment chooses to shrOUd this part inexperienced General was made, the of the report which refers to political whole morale of the Indian Army interference as a decisive =ause of the plumbed to the depths. They expected NEFA debacle, this charg" will pe~ it~very mess in India expected the sist--this charge of deliberate sab) reverses which We suffered in NEFA. tage. I say this: the report it'*!lf Lud:· Why didn't they have reverses when cates sabotage. The Government knew our officers were much less experienc as early at least as 1957 that ClllllS ed? Did we have rever""s in the constituted a major military threat to Kashmir campaign? Thzy faced and this country. Yet there is the adm" overcame the most impossible, almost sion that there was no slant in our impossible, logistic conditions. Why training fOr a war with China. There even in Ladakh did they fight, and was no slant in our training 30 rar as fight to the death? Why this debaCle in the requisite knowledlle of Chinese NEFA? tactics was concerned. There was 1:0 training to our troops for lighting at I have tri2d to give you :;ome of the high altitudes, when it was ~xiomatic reasons. As I said, the elevation of that if we had to fight the Chinese We this General was part of the Krishna would have to fight them at high alti Menon plan to create a caucus of polio tudes. tician----'Generals around him who would do his political bidding. I I have often been asked my reasons· blame him more than these unIortu for this .udden, unexpected with nate Generals. drawal of the Chinese. Many of us have given different reasons. I have We have to be thb.nkful to the Chi given an amalgam of reasons. I do nese for many things. But one O! the not want to be unfair to Shri Krishna things we have to be thankful to them Menon. but my reasons have been not for is this, not only that the Chinese only this tremendous national upsurge, attack created this tremendous not onlv the aid that was being rush national upsurge but that it led to the ed to us by the Western democraCies, virtual dismissal of Shri Krishna but perhaps most of all it wa. be<'ause Menon, because I believe that if ShTi Shri Krishna Menon was sarked from Kri.hna Mpnon hnd continued in office office. I say this, that his sackin~ from for lI1\y further length of time, he offipp c~mp. a~ C:l1rh ~Tl unexpected would have succeeded in destroying shock to the Chinese, ihat it upset all the whole Indian Army. He would their calculations for a military cake have demorali.ed it from top to bot- walk into India. The Chinese may 7563 Discussion on SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 NEFA Enquiry and 7564 Motion re: "Our Defence Preparedness" [Shri Frank Anthony] have continued to be able to rely on of denial that he did not supersede the the Indian Communists to sabotage the advice of his Generals. I say that he war effort in the country, they may superseded their advice, that he ham have been able to continue to rely on strung his Generals at every step. the Indian Communists supplying them with vital miiitary intelligence, I have here a cutting from a weekly they may have been aWe to continue newspaper, which is not very well to rely on the Indian C"mmunists to known, but it is not bein~ refuted. It confuo" and demoralise our people, but levels such grave charges against the thpy could not depend 0n sabotage at former DefenCe Minister that if they '" e very heart of OUr war effort. were untrue, he would have it prose That, in my opinion, was the dOllnnant cuted. rf'.:<;;.::')rt: tl"lp sudden, unpxpected sack Shri S. M. Banerjee: Which is that ing of Shri Menon was the dominant paper? rc" "The guerrilla campaigns being 1511 f~r" ~T (~): waged in China today arc a pcige in history that has no precedcnt. ~t Secondly the terrain in which we \lmf ~~ 'R ' ~ ~~~rnif; ;ffi~ ~ 1 ~ "far cr ~'I "Our Prime Minister is very kindhearted. He " extremely ~ ~ ~ ~~ if; ~ eft;; generoUs to the fault; of ,,.,is friends. He seems to have over ;m: R'f C!'!> ~ I m'f>ii ~'!>T<: :art' 'I>'T looked the harm that has been ~ .m: w.rr ~ m ~oni ~ done the country On ac:oun~ tl) ~ 'fliifl!; ~ ~~ of Krishna Meno". But let il be m if fml: undersloo:! that th~ verdict of the ifflif ~~ 2fT I ~fI ~ 'I>'T~f~ history will be different, if a ~~~~?~f'f>ii~~ per-on responsible for the ter ribl .. setback to our coun:ry, ~ "fT~ ~ fl!; ~ "J:'i9 m lJ<'IfCPrt in-t':'ad of being puni~'H!d, con ~ ~, itm ~ fif;7n 0fTIf fl!; tinues to enjoy the confidence hm-u ~ Ilif ~ ~'mT ~ I ~f'fi He made a very important point. ''IT <{lffi ~ (~ Shri Y. B. Chavan: mean the statement wherever I have mentioned .10 ~ ~~\ {;f ..~ : ~ ~ t he word 'report'. I was saying that f~ m 'JA"Im If~q : ~ if ~ '1ft lflfT ~~7 Mr. Speaker: The Home Minister wanted to make a statement. He il not here. Shri Kanungo. osft~m: wn:m'f~~eft m~flAeif~~~~ I Motions re: SEPTEMBER 21, 1963 Committee on 760 Public Undertakingb 16.46 hrs. takings specified in t!le Sche dule; MOTION RE: COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC UNDERTAKINGS (b) to examine the reporls, if any, of the Comptroller and The Minister of Industry (Shri Auditor General on the P-"b KanUDgO): Sir, may I submit that lie Undertakings; there is hardly any time, and $0 I would not take a little more th&n 15 (c) to examine, in the context of minutes. (Interruption). the autonomv and effir'i"ncy of the Publi~ Undertakings, Mr. Speaker: What about the Half whether the affairs of the an-Hour discussion? Would the House Public Undertakings are be like to sit .... ing managed in accordance with sound business pIlfJ.ci Several Hon. Members: No, no. pies and prudent commcrclal ~Ir. Speaker: Then I will prCllr.is,", practices; and Shrimati Savitri Nigam that in the first wek of next session if sh" re (d) such other function vested m peats the notice we will take that up the Public Accounts Comm,_ in the next seSSlOn ttee and the Estimates com mittee in relation to the Shrlmati Renu Chakravartty (Bar Public Undertakings specified rackpore): Let the hon. Minister in the Schedule by or :.mder move the motion. ihe Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business of th:s Shri Surendranath Dwivedy (Ken House as are not covered by drapara): Let him move the motion. clauses (a), (b) and (e) (Interruption) . above and as may be allotted to the Committee by the Mr. Speaker: He is going te move Speaker from time to tIl"e. it. If he wants 15 minutes he can have it. Provided that the Committee 3hall not examine and investigate any of Shri Kanungo: I beg to mo,'e the the following matters. namely: motion as put down in the Order Paper, item No.7. To saVe "ilTle, I (i) matters of major Government am not reading it. policy as distinct from' busi ness Or commercial functions of the Public Undertakings: Mr. Speaker: It may be read once. Shri Kanungo: I beg to mov~: (ii) matters of day-to-day ad ministration; "That a Committee of Lhis (iii) matters for the consideration House to be caIled the Committee of which machinery IS es on Public Undertakings be con ta blished by any .peclU) stituted with ten members who statute under which a parti shall be elected from among the cular public undertakin!', i, members of this House according established. to the principle of proportional representation by means of the (3) That the members of the Cvm single transferable votes. mittee shall hold office for a perIod of (2) That the functions of the Com_ five years; mittee shall be: Provided that one-fifth of the (a) to examine the report; and members shall retire every year by accounts of the Public Under-' rotation and the members to retirp Motions re: BHADRA 30, 1885 (SAKA) Committee on 7606 Public Un:J~Ttakings by rotation every year shall be \hos<' 2. Bharat Electronics Ltd., Hanga who have been longest in office SillC~ lore. their last election but as beh. e~n members who were elected on the 3. Mazagon Docks Ltd., Bonlbay. same day, those who are to retIre 4. Garden Reach Workshop Ltd., shall be determined by lot. Calcutta." (4) That in other respects tbe Rules also beg to move: of Procedure of this House relatIng to Parliamentary Committees shall apply "That this House reconeTlends with such variations and mo..JJlica to Rajya Sabha that Rajya Sabha tions as the Speaker may make. do agree to nominate five mem bers from Rajya Sabha to asso SCHEDULE ciate with the Committee on (List of Public Undertakings) Public Undertakings and Oil the constitution of the said CommI PART I ttee to communicate to this House the names of the membe~s so (Public Undertakings established by nominated by Rajya Sabha." Central Acts) 1. The Damodar Valley eorporo This motion has a chequered his tion. tory. A similar motIon wa3 moved in the House on the 24th November, 2. The Industrial Finance C"r 1961. The general elections illter poration. \·ened ... 3. The Indian Airlines C0rpora_ tion. ShrI Bari Vishnu Kamath (Iiosh angabad): The speeh may be laid on 4. The Air India International. the Table. 5. The Life Insurance Corpora tion. ShrI Nath Pai (Rajapur): We did not bargain for any speech today. We 6. The Central Warehousing Cor suggested that the motion may be poration. moved, so that the House may be seized of it. We were not read 'f for 7. Oil and Natural Gas Com_ one more speech today. mission, Some Bon. Members: He can lay it PART II on the Table. (Public Undertakings which are Gov Mr. S~ker: If speech is to be ernment Companies formed ullder made On the floor of the HOUse and the Companies Act) if the House is not prepared to sit now, when we meet again ~1e can Every Government Company wl:ose make the speech. annual report is placed before the Houses of Parliament under sub Shrj Surendranatb Dwivedy: We section (1) of Section 619A of the must be permitted to mOve our amell Mr. Speaker: The amendments can Mohan Studio and mentioned the be moved after the speech is mad". name of Shri Raj Bans Khanna akng with that studio in that connection. I wish to state by way of correction 16.53 hrs. now that while Mohan Studio was one of the studios searched by the pOlice, CORRECTION OF ANSWER TO Shri Raj Bans Khanna has no con STARRED QUESTION No. 742 nection whatever with the !.lohan Studio or with any other stuliic in The Minister of Home Affairs i Shri Bombay Or any of the places which Nanda): Sir, I wish to make a ccr were searched by the police. rection in one of the replies which I gave to tbe House the day before Mr. Speaker: The House sland. ad_ yesterday in reply to one of ~le S111) journed sine die. plementaries to the Starred Question No. 743 regarding the search of Iilm studios in Bombay. I stated in reply 16.55 lam. to a supplementary by Dr. L. M. Singhvi that one of the studios rpcent The Lok Sabha then ad;o"nted ly searched by the police was the sine 4ie. DAlLY DIGEST 76tO [Saturday, Septtmber 21, 19631Bhalira 30, 188~ (Sob)] CoLUMNS PAPERS LAID ON THE ORAL ANSWERS TO QUES- TABLE--cantd. TIONS 7437-47 CoLUMNS S.N.]. Sw.ject (ii) Review by the Govern No. ment on the working 14 Indian Missions abroad 7437-·41 of the above Cor 15 Dussehra Holidays in poration. Delhi Schools 7·41-42 (2) A copy of the Indian Air 16 Gold in the country craft (Fourth Amendment) 7442,-45 Rules, 1963 published in 17 Telephone service in Notification No. G.S.R. Balaghat 7445-46 1457, dated the 7th Sep tember, 1963, under section 18 Production of cement 1¢ of the Aircraft Act, in Andhra Pradesh 7447 1934, together with an explanatory note. STATEMENT BY PRIME MINISTER. 7448-57 (3) The Minutes of the sittings (Seventh and Eighth) of the The Prime Minister (Shri Committee on Petitions held Jawaharlal Nehru) made during the current Session, a statement on recent firing by Pakistani forces on Assam-East Pakistan MESSAGE FROM RAJYA border. SABHA Secretary reported a message STATEMENT BY MINIS- from Rajya Sabha that at its TERS 7458-66 sitting held on the 19th (i) The Minister of Finance September, 1963, Rajya (Shri T. T. Krishna Sabha agreed without any machari) made a state~ amendment to the Personal ment on the Gold Injuries (Compensation In Control Order and the surance) Bill, 1963, passed Compulsory Deposit by Lok Sabha on the 28th Schemes. August, 1963. ,ii) The Minister of Home DISCUSSION RE: NEFA Affairs (Shri N anda) ENQUIRY AND MOTION made a statement RE : "OUR DEFENCE PRE- correcting the reply . PAREDNESS" . . 7474-7(02 given on the 18th September, 1963 to a Combined discuss'on on ~NEFA supplementary by Dr. Enquiry and the motIon re : L.M. Singhvi on "Our Defence Preparedness" Starred Question No. continued. The Minister of 743 regarding Search Defence (Shri Y. B. Chavan) of Film Studios in also took part in the debate. Bombay. The motion re: "Our Defence Preparedness" moved by Shri Bhakt Darshan was PAPERS LAID ON THE adopted. TABLE 746t-67 (I) A copy each of the MOTION RE: COMMITTEE following papers : ON PUBLIC UNDERTA- KINGS . 7(03'-07 (i) Annual Report of the Film Finance Corpora The Minister of Industry tion Limited, Bombay, (Shri Kanungo) .moved a for the year 1962-63 mOtion re: Constitution of along with the Audited a Committee of the House Accounts and the to be called the Committee comments of the Com- on Public Undertakings. ptroller and Auditor Th r discussion was not General thereon, under concluded. sub-section (I) of section 619A of the Lok Sabha adjourned ,in. die Companies Act, 1956. at 16·2shrs. RESUME 7612 OF mE F'IFrH S_ION (1963) OF THJ: Tlmm LoK SABHA Period of the Session 13th August umber of Discussions to 21st Sept. held under Rule 193 1963. (Matters of Urgent Public ImpOrtance) : Number of meetings held '0 (i) Notices received 2R Total number of Sitting (ii Discussions held hours. . 188 hours and 6 Numbers of statements minutes Made under Rule 197 (Calling Attention to Number of Div·'iorr ~eJd 12 Matters of Urgent Public Importar ce): Government Bills :- Ci) Notices received (i) Pending at the com- (ii) Statements made by mencement of the Ministers 2 'i session 16 Half-an-hour Discussion (ii) introduced . held (iii) Laid on the Table"s Government Resolutions: passed by Rajya Sabha. (i) Moved Nil (iv) Referred to Select (ii) Adopted. Nil Committee Nil (v) Referred to JOint Com Private Members, ReSOlu- mittee tions: «.;) Reported by Select Ci) Received 15 Committ~e (ii) Ac'mitted 12 (vii) Reported by JOint (iii) Discussed 3 (1 Part dis Comminee Nil cussed) (viii) Passed 20 (List at (iv) Withdrawn Nil tached) (v) Negatived 2 (ix) Returned by Rajya (vi) Adopted Nil Sabha without any re- (vii) Part discussed. commendation (viii) Discussion postponed Nil (x) Returr.ed by Raj),a Sabha with any amend- Government Motions ment Nil (i) MOved (xi) Pendil!g at tloe (ii) Admitted but leave not mittees presented to the granted 6y the House Nil Lok Sabha : (iii) Ruled out of order Nil I. P.A.C. Reports 2. E.C. Report Consent withheld by (iv) 3. Committee, on Private Speaker Nil Members Bills and Re Total nwnberofQuestions sOlutions admitted 4. Business Advisory Committee . . i) Starred 801 5. Committee on Ab :ii) Unstarred (including sence of Members starred questions con- Nwnber of MembclS verted as unstarred granted leave of absence I I questions) . 2259' Petitions presented 4 (iii) ShOrt Notice Questions 18 Nwnber of New Members Nwnber of Reports of va swOrn with dates and riOUS ParliamentarY Com- constituencies: S.No. Name of Member Date on .swOrn which Constituency Div.No. swOrn 1. Shrimati Syam Kumari_Devi 13-8-1963 Raipur 2. Shri J. B. Kripalani . Do. Amroha 436 3. Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia Do. Farukhabad 390 4· Shri Rajdeo Singh Do. Jaunpur 163 5. Shri M. R. Masani Do. Rajkot 445 GOVERNMENT BILLS P ABSED 11. The Warehousing Corporations DURING THE FIFTH SESSION (Amendment) Bill, 1963. 1. The All India Services (Amend 12. The CustO'ms and Central Ex ment) Bill, 1963. cises (Amendment) Bill, 1963. 2. The Insttutes of Technology 13. The Major Port Trusts Bill, 1963. (Amendment) Bill, 1963. 14. The Personal Injuries (Compen sation Insurance) Bill, 1963. 3. The Administrators-General Bill, 1963. 15. The Appropriation (Railways) No. 5 Bill, 1963. 4. The Specific Relief Bill, 1963. 16. The Special Marriage (Amend 5. The Textiles Committee Bill, ment) Bill, 1963. 1963. 17. The Indian Sale of Goods (Am 6. The Union Territories iJramatic endment) Bill, 1963. Performances (Repeal) Bill, 1963. 7. The Limitation Bill, 1963. 18. The Employees' Provident Funds (Amendment) Bill, 1963. 8. The Indian Emigration (Amend ment) Bill, 1963. 19. The Code of Civil Procedure 9. The Iron Ore Mines Labour Wel (Amendment) Bill, 1963. tare Cess (Amendment) BIll, 1963. 20. The Public Premises (Eviction 10. The Appropriation (No.4) Bill, of Unauthorised Occupants) Amend 1963. ment Bill, 1963. 1286 (Ai) LSD-7.