Harry Potter and the Sacred Text Book 6, Chapter 20: Lord Voldemort’s Request - Good Will

Vanessa: Chapter 20 Lord Voldemort’s Request ​

Vanessa: (reading aloud) Harry and Ron left the hospital wing first thing on Monday morning, ​ ​ returned to full health by the ministrations of Madame Pomfrey and now able to enjoy the benefits...

I’m Vanessa Zultan.

Casper: I’m Casper ter Kuile.

Vanessa: And this is Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. ​ ​

Casper: This week’s episode is our last one before we take a two week holiday break. So, if you’ve been running behind, now is your chance to catch up. And we’ve got less than a week left to donate to RAICES, as part of our amazing “Don’t Be A Dursley” campaign. We have set goals, you have beaten them. We’ve set another goal, you’ve beaten it again. It’s been amazing to watch how our entire community has come together to support this issue. And we’re so, so grateful. Thanks to anyone who’s got a final donation to make in this last week.

Vanessa: Also, Casper, did you know that my favorite director is a man named Richard Linklater? And that he lives in a city named Austin, Texas? (Casper laughing) And I am curious ​ ​ if he is a member of our local group there.

Casper: They are the amazing Longhorn Snorkacks and it’s run by Caitlin Mimms. And if you wanna join our local group in Austin, so to HarryPotterSacredText.com/groups where you can find their info as well as more than 55 groups around the world now. We’re so glad to have you all with us.

Vanessa: And, Richard Linklater, if you are a listener, “at” me! (Casper laughing) ​ ​ So Casper, it is your turn to tell me a story on the theme of good will. What have you got for me?

Casper: So, growing up in England, you know, I was English a lot of the time but, I was also Dutch. My parents are both from Holland and we spoke Dutch at home. And so when we were visiting my family in Holland I always had this sort of weird experience of, like, knowing the language and the culture in a lot of ways. But also being completely not up to date with what was happening in popular culture. It’s one of the ways in which, in England, I did feel like I really belonged. Like I knew Dame Judy Dench and Sir Ian McKellan, and of course, not everyone knows those. But, there are these figures - people who the country has decided somehow that we all like. Like, national treasures. And, moving to America I kind of had the same experience, because, although a lot of countries in Europe look to America, you know, we consume American media, there were still a lot of things I didn’t know. So when I first heard about Mr. Rogers, I had literally no idea who this was. I was like “who is this guy? Why is he wearing a cardigan?” And it has just been such a delight to learn from people who grew up watching him how much he meant to them. And I just thought about how these characters in our national imagination represent kind of, the good will of who we are as people. Like, we lift up these people because they help us to be the kind of nation that we want to be. To be the people that we want to be. You know, Mr. Rogers, he was a Presbyterian minister. There was so much behind these little acts of like, taking off his shoes or putting his feet in the like, same mini pool as his black colleague in a time when segregation was still so politically rife. And, of course, continues to be. And I think we can learn a lot about a country by looking at who it’s national treasures are. And so, with that theme of good will, I want to think in this chapter about, like who are we lifting up in this chapter of “Birthday Surprises.” Like, who is being looked to as the kind of archetypal person to whom the whole society gives good will. I kind of still don’t really know who the wizarding world has as its national treasure.

Vanessa: It’s so interesting that you didn’t know who Mr. Rogers was. Peter and I, my partner, just had this conversation because he’s from Germany and I was like “I wanna go see the new Mr. Rogers movie” and he was like “Who’s that? A super hero?” (Casper laughing) And I was ​ ​ like “Sort of”

Casper: Yes! (Casper laughing) ​ ​

Vanessa: And the story that I told about Mr. Rogers is a famous one. Which was, that his car was stolen...

Casper: Oh wow...

Vanessa: ...one day in Pittsburgh. And they announced over the radio, you know, Mr. Rogers car was stolen. And it got returned with a note saying “I’m so sorry Mr. Rogers. I never meant to steal your car.” (Casper laughing) And that to me is just like the iconic Mr. Rogers story. That ​ ​ there is so much good will towards Mr. Rogers, that even someone in like dire enough straights to steal a car was like “But I don’t want to steal a car from Mr. Rogers.”

Casper: Yeah. Well and he just embodies good will, right? Like, he just wished everyone well and therefore everyone wished him well.

Vanessa: Do you know where goodwill gets put aside though?

Casper: Ha! The thirty second recap.

Vanessa: That’s right!

Casper: Thirty seconds on the clock, are you ready?

Vanessa: I’m ready.

Casper: Three...two...one...go!

Vanessa: So, Herminone has forgiven Ron and Harry. She’s like “Yeah, I’ll help you with your homework again.” Ron has to have this awkward conversation with Lavender. Poor Lavender. Ummm, Harry has to go for his lesson with Dumbledore and Dumbledore is like “Shame on you that you didn’t take my assignment of Slughorn more seriously.” And Harry is like “Uh, you’re disappointed and that’s the worst.” And then, uh, they go into two memories and one of them Tom Riddle is trying to collect something and like that’s very interesting. And then in the second memory...what happens in the second memory?! It’s gone from my head. And then...Oh! He comes to ask (sound of countdown buzzer going off) for the Defense Against the Dark Arts job! ​ ​ (Casper laughing) Oh! ​ ​

Casper: (more laughing) That works on so many layers. What is the memory? (Casper ​ ​ ​ continues laughing) ​

Vanessa: It, like went right out of my brain! I read this chapter this morning. This is what your late thirties look like people!

Casper: Welcome, welcome.

Vanessa: Okay. Maybe you can talk a little bit about the second memory. Uuugggh. On your mark, get set, go!

Casper: Okay, so, Harry is back with Dumbledore and he’s going to have these two memories. And first, he sees, um, uh, uh, the young Voldemort working at Borgin and Burkes and he’s like “Why is he working there?” And it turns out that he’s actually asked the former headmaster to be a professor at Hogwarts, but, um, the former headmaster had said “No.” Then he goes and visits Hepsibah, who is a rich, old witch, who has a Hufflepuff cup and a golden Slytherin locket. Oh, and there’s Hokey the house elf who’s memory this is. And, then, oh, Harry sees it and he comes back and the red eyes, glinting, dead, old lady, has the things, disappears. And, uh, the, de-, curse of (sound of countdown buzzer going off) defense, DA. Curse of the da- Defense ​ ​ Against the Dark Arts teacher.

Vanessa: I want a folk song to be written called “The Old Rich Witch.”

Casper: (in a singing voice) The old rich witch waved on her round, she had nice things and lots ​ ​ of clothes… (Casper laughing) That’s the first line. ​ ​

Vanessa: Okay, can we start with something that, no matter how many times I read this chapter, I have very mixed feelings on?

Casper: Yes!

Vanessa: So Dumbledore is like “I’m not mad, I’m disappointed.” Right? He all but uses Harry’s middle name here. In his like, non-reprimand reprimand.

Casper: Yeah. I mean, he’s pretty stern. Like, he’s like “Did you really do everything you could? No.”

Vanessa: Ye- Well, but, he doesn’t say the “No.” (Casper laughing) Which is even worse. And ​ ​ Harry says, right, like “I just wish he’d yell.”

Casper: Yeah.

Vanessa: And part of me is like, props to you Dumbledore. Like, props to you that you have so much authority that, like, he is lecturing himself, right? That Harry is like, this is what I did wrong and this is what I’ll do better next time. And that, like, Dumbledore doesn't’ even need to do it.

Casper: Mmhmm

Vanessa: And I want to say that that is good will that has been built up. That like, all that Dumbledore needs to do is be present and just like his presence is going to be enough to like show Harry that he didn’t take something seriously. The other part of me is like, you are shaming this child when, like, you miscommunicated something.

Casper: I think he made it pretty clear. I mean, the thing that wows me in this moment and where I do really see good will, is where Harry says, “I’m sorry,” and Dumbledore says, “We’ll speak no more of it.” And what Dumbledore is able to do after that moment of being reprimanding and helping Harry let go of the shame that he does feel when he’s being reprimanded. Now, we should still have conversations about how fair it is to have asked this in the first place. But, I actually thought it was a lovely moment to see him be able to move on so quickly and know that Harry is doing that himself, to himself, and that he doesn't’ need to shout. He doesn’t need to shame any more. And the rest of the meeting is very productive, I think, because of that good will.

Vanessa: Yeah. I don’t know. I think the reason that it makes me feel icky is that Harry has so much good will toward Dumbledore in this moment and it doesn’t feel reciprocated. Like, he doesn't say, “Yeah, it’s a really hard task. And you tried and I would imagine that trying and failing in front of a teacher is embarrassing.” And that, like, “And, you got injured and put in the hospital. And I need you to do this too.” It doesn't’ feel like that good will is reciprocated. Which just feels gross to me.

Casper: Yeah, and it’s interesting because I do think Dumbledore phrases it as a question. Right? Which is better than had it just been a statement. If Dumbledore had said, “You didn’t do your best. You didn’t use everything at your disposal.” Right. Like, if it was this litany of accusations, I think it would read even more painfully. I guess, good will is a lot of giving the benefit of the doubt. And so the fact that he does phrase it as a question of “Did you exhaust all the options you had?” At least there’s some more towards that which would have been much more painful if it had just been statements. But, I still feel like Dumbledore needs to work on his communication skills outside of the meeting times. Like, is there a regular check-in that they could have over owl-post? I, I (Casper laughing) Or, even at breakfast, like, should we just have ​ ​ cereal together and chat? There’s something about the large time gaps between the moments that they have together which is kind of setting up the good will to fail.

Vanessa: Right! And the fact that he finds out that he is meeting day-of. Like, maybe he would have (Casper laughing throughout statement) squeezed in one more attempt. ​ ​

Casper: Right! (Casper laughing) ​ ​

Vanessa: I just, I guess, maybe your breakfast comment reminded me that it just feels entirely like Harry is a pawn and there isn’t real relationship building happening. And I understand that sometimes you’re too busy to do relationship building, but then you need extra good will and extra, like, benefit of the doubt. And, he like, pretends to have a lot of good will towards Snape and, you know, but at the end of the day he is not very hand-out.

Casper: Well, I definitely agree with you that he does not trust a lot of people and I think that’s, that’s a major issue. I mean, one question that I did genuinely have rereading it this time was why Snape wants the Defense Against the Dark Arts job when we know that there’s a curse on it.

Vanessa: Oooohh.

Casper: Right? Like, why does he want to go into a situation that he knows will end in disaster?

Vanessa: Oh, that’s so interesting. So what immediately occurred to me is that it will be the final blessing of Dumbledore. He would say, “I really trust you.”

Casper: Ahhhh.

Vanessa: Like, “I trust you to be so close to the thing that you most love, to the thing that is most tempting to you.” It would be the equivalent of Peter trusting me with a chocolate cake. (Casper ​ laughing) I just wonder, people who have good will toward all are like, so beautiful and ​ wonderful and then also, I’m just like, yeah but do you have any special good will toward me? Like, there’s just the infant in me who finds that people who love everyone, I’m like, I don’t really have time for you in my life. I don’t just want to be everyone. And Dumbledore strikes me as a person like that who like, believes in everyone but believes in no one. And so I think that you start to get into cycles with people like that of like, this is the way that I will know that I am special to you.

Casper: Yeah.

Vanessa: That you care extra about me. And I can imagine Snape saying, “I will only know that you really trust me when you give me that job.” ​ ​

Casper: That’s very resonant. And I mean, It’s so interesting that you point out that feeling of like, making someone feel like they're special to you. Cause, we see that elsewhere in this chapter with Tom Riddle, right, when he goes to visit Hepsibah. Which is a great biblical name. It appears twice in the bible. And it means, from the ancient Hebrew, my delight is in her. Isn’t that so interesting? Because, what struck me, which relates to the comment of how Dumbledore’s kind of like loving everybody but not one person specifically, is Tom Riddle is really good at making you feel special. We see the preparation that Hepsibah’s gone, we see, you know, she’s made Hokey clean the house and tidy everything and make it just so that when the young Riddle arrives it's going to be a lovely, nice experience. He, he makes her feel special. He makes her feel wanted. She knows in part that it’s mostly about the things that she owns, but even through those things, you know, it reflects on her. I think that’s what he does with Bellatrix. I think it’s what he does with individual Death Eaters. He’s not good at friendship but he is good at making you feel powerful or wanted or somehow special. Even with Draco, that must be what’s happening behind the scenes.

Vanessa: Right. Which, I wonder if, to some extent, is the opposite of good will. Right. Which is reducing a relationship to something transactional.

Casper: Mmmmmm.

Vanessa: I mean, Hepsibah says it, right? Like, she is sceptical. She is like, “Oh no, you have to...” Like, basically, “You have to flirt with me longer…”

Casper: Yes!

Vanessa: “...or I’m gonna think that you’re only here for my stuff!”

Casper: Yes.

Vanessa: And these are two people who are entirely objectifying each other and using one another. Hepsibah is using Tom Riddle for her sense of self and like, in a really icky older woman flirting with a much, much younger man who she has some financial control over. And then, he is obviously using her entirely for her material belongings. And, if good will is giving someone the benefit of the doubt, these are two people who are in constant doubt of each other. And who are constantly making each other prove themselves to each other, right? “Oh, you have to talk to me for exactly two minutes (Casper laughing) and forty-two seconds or I’m ​ ​ gonna feel like you’re doing X.” And, “You have to be willing to sell Y to me or why did I come all the way out here?” I am totally fine with there being certain relationship that have no good will. Where it makes me feel uncomfortable is where those two things get confused. Like, Lyft drivers, it really confuses me.

Casper: Say more.

Vanessa: So, I feel very uncomfortable in Ubers and Lyfts because it is somebody’s private car. And there is this like, bridging of boundaries (Casper mmm-ing) where like, one of the things ​ ​ you can rate them on is whether or not it was a good conversation. And like, I don’t feel comfortable necessarily having a conversation when like, a stranger’s driving me somewhere. I feel like, I would rather a relationship like that be entirely transactional.

Casper: I’m with you. Yeah, and it’s funny how like, different starred ratings are attempts to create a sense of good will. Like, this person is rated a 4.8 by previous guests or previous drivers. They’re supposed to be a stand-in for that, but it’s not that simple. It’s funny how we have to navigate that in that situation.

Vanessa: So, but here is a difference. So, like, Lyft, I’m like, this is a transaction, I am in an unsafe situation, you are in an unsafe situation, let’s just get through this.

Casper: Mmm.

Vanessa: But, I very much grew up building relationships with people who I have repeat interactions with, even if the basis of that interaction is somewhat transactional. Right? So like, your mail person, pharmacist, anyone like that. Anyone who I like, see you regularly, I actually build a pretty close relationship with. That is one that I believe in because that is about community. LIke, if a mail person doesn't come for a few days, checking in on them. And say, maybe they’re in ill health and maybe there’s something that I can do. And that to me seems like this like, snider like, effort of resisting tyranny. And I just think at the end of the day, I am a short woman who is scared and so there are other times that I’m like, “Nope! This is entirely transactional.” There’s something about the one-timeness of it...I think that we should be living with good will toward people who we have repeat relationships with. Or ongoing relationships with. But, I think that good will gone too far is like naivete and dangerous.

Casper: Hmmm. So another place where we see good will show up in this chapter is that we learn that Hermione is once again willing to help Harry with his Herbology homework. And by helping Harry she knows that he’ll let Ron copy off him. And so, in effect, she is again helping Ron. Which is a major rapprochement, to use a little French word, having had this little icy period between the two of them. And, it’s interesting to think about, would she have let Ron copy her directly? Is her good will, has it extended that far again? I’m not sure. But, it has extended far enough that she’ll let Harry who she knows will let Ron. You know what I mean? But, there’s also something funny about like, grades good will and how public is the good will and that kind of stuff does show up in that little momment.

Vanessa: Yes. There’s another coded aspect of this which is that she is saying to Harry, “I will look over your essay,” when really they both know that actually she is going to finish his essay.

Casper: That’s right.

Vanessa: And so the codedness around good will is really interesting to me too. The ways that we are willing to accept the kindness of some people but only if we pretend that it’s this kind of kindness and not that kind of kindness.

Casper: And I think what we see, both with Hepsibah and with Hermione, is that sometimes there is a tragedy with good will that we only know how to show it in a certain way. Because, I think what Hermione is doing here is, she wants to make real this moment of rapprochement that’s happened, this coming back together. And the way she knows how to do that is to help with homework. And, maybe even, the way that Harry knows to signal that is to ask for it. And I think with Hepsibah, she’s someone who’s very wealthy, so maybe the only way that she knows to build a connection with someone is to be like “look at the things that I own.” Right, it’s nothing about me, it’s nothing about anything I’m particularly good at in that case. It’s just what I own. So, I think, in some ways we also learn how to give and receive good will in ways that limit us, right?

Vanessa: Yeah, I think there’s such wisdom in that. I think that often when I feel good will towards someone who I don’t have a deep relationship with, I want to prove it.

Casper: Yes!

Vanessa: And like, offer them something. And I get myself into trouble with like, not even over promising, cause it’s so vague. But it’s just this feeling of good will that I want to back up. And that all it is at the end of the day is sort of like, good wishes and I’m rooting for you. And I think that something that you model with your life, is that what to do in those moments is the build relationship, right. That the offering is, I want to be in relationship with you. And sort of, believing that we are enough and our time and attention is enough.

Casper: But really, we all want this golden Slytherin locket. Or the Hufflepuff cup.

Vanessa: I mean, that’s what I really want. (Casper laughing) ​ ​

Casper: Can I take you to another place where I was struck by kind of a shadow of good will? There’s this moment where suddenly Luna shows up and Harry, Ron, and Hermione are together. And Ron says, “Aw, your commentary was awesome!” Right? Cause, he so enjoyed it from the hospital bed. And Luna says, “You’re making fun of me, aren’t you?” Because clearly so many people have been laughing at her and that her commentary was bad and everything else. And I don’t know if this is my reading or if it’s actually in the text. But, I didn’t read it with any resentment. And I wonder if it’s actually something about good will. Like, what she has is that she nevers suspects nastiness, to the point perhaps of naivete, exactly like you were saying. But, like, with the missing items and her shoes, she’s not angry, she’s not bitter, she’s not resentful or suspicious. Like, her questions of “you’re making fun of me, aren’t you?” isn’t one of like, you’re being cruel or accusatory. She’s literally trying to understand: is that what Ron is doing. And she’s right to ask because Ron then says, “No! I genuinely loved it.” So there’s something about Luna in this theme of good will that was so important to me in this chapter.

Vanessa: I think you’re exactly right. I think Luna is really asking. And I think that it’s so generous that she’s asking. And also it me speaks of some woundedness. (Casper mmming) ​ ​ That enough people have mocked her...

Casper: Yeah.

Vanessa: ...that she’s like, “You’re making fun of me, aren’t you?” That the safe way to ask it is to assume that he’s being cruel. (Casper mmming) And she doesn’t want to believe it until she’s ​ ​ absolutely sure that’s what’s happening.

Casper: So, do you think, do you think the last few years have changed Luna?

Vanessa: I do. I also think she’s also learned not to trust Ron specifically. (Casper laughing) ​ ​ Like, she really thinks he’s funny and she’s laughing at every single one of his jokes when they first meet. And then she’s had this moment in the last book where she says, like, “he’s funny but he’s not always kind.” And this might be actually a rebuilding moment for the two of them. You know, because I do think they become great allies, especially in Book 7. Maybe by asking Ron and not assuming he’s being a jerk, even though everybody else is, that that is the extension of good will. She’s like, I’m gonna give you a chance to tell me no. Or to have to say “Yeah, I’m making fun of you.” And to expose yourself as a jerk publicly. But, I’m gonna give you the opportunity to be like, “No, I thought you were great.”

Casper: I hadn’t even seen it within that bigger arc. And I think you’re so right. I think you’re so right. So, the final place in the chapter where I’m like, is there any good will here, is Voldemort or Riddle’s constant desire to come back to Hogwarts. Harry recognizes that feeling that this is the only place that Riddle has ever felt like was home. And I wonder even if there’s a difference between the first time that he asks and the second time that he asks. That by the first time that he asks, is there some part of him that is still hoping or thinks it’s possible that he could be great, cause he wants to be great, but do it in a way that doesn’t involve him killing hundreds of people. I think by the second time he asks, that’s gone, right, like, we can see how his physical shape has already been so changed, which is an outward representation of this inward, Horocrux making. And Dumbledore pretty quickly unravels his desire, that it’s just about strategic access to a future army. But in that first question of returning, is there something of good will? Even if it’s wrapped up in all sorts of other things?

Vanessa: And here’s the other thing. Even if somebody doesn’t have good will, do they still have the capacity to be changed? Right, by kindness. I mean, I reminded of Jean Valjean, who like, goes into that house, you know the priest’s house, to steal, right.

Casper: Yeah.

Vanessa: Right, to a large extent, and then gets treated so kindly that he is profoundly changed by the experience. So, you know, we’ll never know because he was turned away. I will say that it becomes very complicated because I agree that an eighteen year old teaching seventeen year olds would not be appropriate.

Casper: Right, right.

Vanessa: So I think they were right not to hire him for that reason. And then, also, you know, as I have come down very hard on Snape, I don’t like, think extending good will to a teacher by exposing a potentially harmful person to students in an acceptable risk to take.

Casper: Mmmm.

Vanessa: Right? I think that at the end of the day it is a teacher...eh, a headmaster’s job to protect the students.

Casper: Right.

Vanessa: I don’t think that Voldemort at this point had a ton of good will. But I am very interested in the idea that he could have still potentially been changed. And that Dumbledore by being afraid of himself and his own seeking of power has closed himself off so much that he missed an opportunity with Riddle.

Casper: Yeah.

Vanessa: And that Hogwarts failed him. Right?

Casper: Yeah, that’s right. I mean, but, but really when we think of the Harry Potter books we think of the trio. We think of the students that Hogwarts has succeeded. But the books are littered with people who have been failed. Whether it’s Hagrid or Moaning Myrtle or Tom Riddle. Even the ones who have been shaped by the institution a way that we can be proud of, often have forged their own way, right? Think of Neville. Or even the Weasley twins. Think, I’m just seeing more and more, like, my focus on how this institution still has the good will of wizarding society, when it so many ways it does not warrant it anymore.

Vanessa: Yeah.

Casper: Like, the place is ready for a management shake up. (Casper laughing) ​ ​

Vanessa: Yeah. I wonder about that in my own life. And sometimes, you know, again, I think this gets back to a boundary conversation. Or like, sometimes pulling away your good will matters. You know, saying, Hogwarts, you’ve stopped doing well. Yeah, and I think sometimes removing your good will is a way to show like, I don’t condone that behavior.

Casper: It actually changes the way I think about the parents who want to take their kids out of the school. Like, usually when I read those bits I’m like, Oh, come on parents! Don’t overreact! Stay in school.

Vanessa: Be cool!

Casper: Right, be cool. Like, Hogwarts is awesome. And now I’m like, you know what? This is actually, it’s not just an act of I want to keep my kid safe after the latest attack on Katie Bell or whatever, but maybe it’s also a political signal of like, I’m not sure this institution is worthy of my good will anymore. And, we never learn about the alternatives. Like, do they get sent to Beauxbaton or to Durmstrang? Or, do they get homeschooled? Like, we don’t know. But, it is interesting to see like, there are moments, I think of a run on the bank, right? Where enough people say “This institution does not feel safe. I’m not going to give it my good will anymore. I’m going to take what’s mine out of it.” And when it’s organized like a strike, it can be an amazingly powerful tool for change. And just shows that Hogwarts also needs stronger PTA committees. (Casper laughing) For parents able to exercise their control on the school. ​ ​

Vanessa: Yes!

Casper: I will say there’s one final place which made me smile. Which is, you know, Harry has heard how Hokey’s been wrongfully convicted of poisoning Hepsibah. And he says he had rarely felt more in sympathy with the society Hermione had set up, S.P.E.W, SPEW. And that’s just a lovely moment where I think sometimes in our friendships, you know, in the moment when something’s happening. What is going on? This friend is way over involved or cares too much ​ ​ about this thing or it’s weird. And here’s this sweet moment where there’s this gush of good will from Harry to Hermione. Where he’s like, “You know what? I now see more of what you see and you’re right.”

Vanessa: It’s why kids go on field trips, right? It’s like, you don’t care about the trees and then you see trees and you’re like, oh my god trees.

Casper: Mmmmm.

Vanessa: Hogwarts should have more field trips. Even if it’s into other people’s memories.

Casper: (Casper laughing) Exactly! Just in other people’s memories! ​ ​ Sacred practice piano music interlude plays

Vanessa: So Casper, today we are going to do Sacred Imagination. It is our last sacred imagination for a little while. So I would like to invite everyone to sacred imagine as hard as you possibly can. Like, leave nothing on the field. (Casper chuckling) For next week cause there ​ ​ won’t be a sacred imagination next week. So I’d like to invite everybody to really put your feet on the floor, close your eyes if you can. I’m going to take us into a moment Hokey and Hepsibah. And Harry and Dumbledore are obviously watching, but I would really like to invite you to be in ​ the memory. So to be either Hokey or Hepsibah. And imagine yourself into the scene: what are you feeling, what are you smelling, what are you experiencing in this moment?

(Vanessa reading from the book) ​ ​

“Hurry up, Hokey!” said Hepsibah imperiously. “He said he’d come at four. It’s only a couple of minutes to, and he’s never been late yet.” She tucked away her powderpuff as the house elf straightened up. The top of the elf’s head barely reached the seat of Hebsipah’s chair and her papery skin hung off her frame, just like the crisp linen sheet she wore draped like a toga. “How do I look?” said Hepsibah, turning her head to admire the various angles of her face in the mirror. “Lovely madam,” squeaked Hokey. Harry could only assume that it was down in Hokey’s contract that she must lie through her teeth when asked this question, because Hepsibah Smith looked a long way from lovely in his opinion. A tinkling doorbell rang and both mistress and elf jumped. “Quick, quick, he’s here Hokey,” cried Hepsibah and the elf scurried out of the room, which was so crammed with objects that it was difficult to see how anybody could navigate their way across it without knocking over at least a dozen things. There were cabinets full of lacquered boxes, cases full of gold embossed books, shelves of orbs, celestial globes, and many flourishing potted plants in brass containers. In fact, the room looked like a cross between a magical antique shop and a conservatory. The house elf returned in minutes, followed by a tall young man Harry had no difficulty whatsoever in recognizing as Voldemort.

Casper: I mean, the first thing I noticed this time was the green of the room. Like, the potted plants, I’d missed that in my previous readings. I’d seen quite a stuffy space, but actually now it looked like a jungle in a room. You know, the way things are really crammed together. That was kind of cool. I think what I felt hearing it was, I tried to imagine myself being Hokey telling Dumbledore many, many years later, having been imprisoned for the murder of my mistress. And, you know, we hear from Harry that he thinks Hokey is lying. That when she’s asked “how do I look?” and I wonder if she’s telling the truth.

Vanessa: That was the exact thought I had!

Casper: Right? I think she thinks Hepsibah looks lovely. And there are so many problems with the kind of slave relationship here between Hepsibah and Hokey, but this moment seems more sincere than I’d ever encountered it before. It’s funny you felt the same thing.

Vanessa: Yeah. It just struck me, I mean, obviously it’s different because Hokey is enslaved, but it reminds me of people who live with and take care of elderly people. I would imagine that if you’re a nurse to an elderly person who doesn't’ get a lot of visitors, any time that they are excited that someone is coming to visit, that they are putting on make-up, that is breaks up the monotony of your routine together, that they feel like inspired to shower and present a best version of themselves, that you do think that they’re beautiful. And that Hokey looks forward to Voldemort’s visits because it’s like some deviation from their usual life together.

Casper: Mmmm.

Vanessa: And I just like experienced this as a sweet, you know, sad but a slightly sweet moment for Hokey, full of just a little bit of promise.

Casper: Well and it also, for me, massively changes how I react to Hepsibah’s murder. Because, in this chapter, it’s such a sideshow. I mean, it’s a convenient little fact in which we learn more about Voldemort. Like Hepsibah is just clothing to this scene. And this, this moment that we see between Hepsibah and Hokey actually makes, makes both of them so much more human and the killing of Hepsibah all the more horrible. I don’t know, I really felt the sadness in this, you know, one of the last interactions they’ll have. You know, two days later she’s dead. Yeah, this is gonna be one of the last memories Hokey carries with her as she enters Azkaban.

Vanessa: I’m trying to imagine myself into Hepsibah as well. And I don’t know why, I’m suddenly just struck with the idea of her being an elderly person who’s sort of forgotten, in a nursing home or...You know, I just think the way that we treat the elderly in the West is an abomination. And this is a woman who’s trying to matter. And she’s trying to stay relevant to this young man. And I know, I was judging her earlier for the way she was using Voldemort and I do think that is gross. But I also think that she used to be someone who was sort of a mover and a shaker, buying and selling things and negotiating and out and about. And now it seems as though, from the description, and you know we don’t really know, but it sounds like this house is her whole life now.

Casper: Yeah.

Vanessa: And Hokey is her only confidant. And it just made me incredibly sad. And sad for the state we expect people of a certain age to just, like become invisible to us so we don’t have to think about them.

Casper: Yeah, and that the only thing that’s valued about them is what they have.

Vanessa: Right.

Casper: And what they own, right. Like, I’m sure, not only does she have like, wonderful stories, but just who she is, right? Who she’s become would be a presence that would be valuable.

Vanessa: Well, she certainly seems to have been like a woman in business.

Casper: Right!

Vanessa: She was collecting these rare items, you know, fifty years ago.

Casper: Yeah, there’s so much that we don’t know and never will know about her.

This week’s voicemail is from Jordan.

(voicemail inbox beep) ​ ​

Jordan: Hey Ariana, Casper, and Vanessa. My name is Jordan and I am from Cupertino, California. I’m calling in response to your episode you just did on resistance. The thing I’ve had to resist and pushback on my entire life is the idea people have of what it looks like to be blind. There are a lot of preconceived notions and stereotypes where if you’re blind you have zero vision, you use a guide dog and have a white cane and dark glasses. And these are just not true for all blind people. I don’t use a cane all the time. I don’t have a guide dog. And I can get around by myself for the most part. But, society has some very, very firm ideas of what my life needs to look like as a blind person. One of the ways I’ve resisted the stereotypes of what blindness means and what people can do is, when I turned sixteen. Though, because of my vision loss I cannot drive a car. I will never, legally, be able to drive. And missing that milestone was really, really painful to me. So, to push back on what society says I’m allowed to do and what milestones I’m even allowed to have, instead of learning how to drive a car at sixteen, I jumped out of an airplane for the first time. I didn’t want my life to be limited by someone else’s expectations in that moment. I wanted to prove I was capable of much more. There are many things I have to rearrange my life around, being blind. Where I live, the jobs I’m able to do are all dictated by my vision loss. But, I refuse to let it dictate who I am and what I;m allowed to accomplish in my life. I wanted to give a blessing for anyone willing to push past the expectations and limitations put on them. And for the people who are willing to make their own opportunities, where it doesn’t look like any others exist. Thank you for all you do. I love listening to this podcast so much. It’s such a bright part of my day.

Vanessa:

Casper: Jordan, that is a legit badass move. I am, I just have horrible heights things, like my hands just start sweating. So the idea of like jumping out… (Casper laughing) I love your taking ​ ​ a moment that should have been a realization of limits or something and being like, “Oh no, let me show you.” That’s incredible. Congrats. (Casper laughing) Please don’t make me come with ​ ​ you.

Vanessa: So Casper, it is now time to bless somebody in this chapter. Who would you like to bless?

Casper: It’s a very small moment, but as Harry enters office we meet Trelawney and she is clearly frustrated about co-teaching. And, co-teaching is hard so I get it. But, she describes Firenze as a “userping nag.” I just, it’s hard when you hear cruelty like that, especially to somebody like Firenze who’s been so brave and has shown such good will by protecting Harry and being willing to risk being thrown out of his own context and culture and home. I really felt for him. I was like, my god, this is what he has to put up with explicitly from Trelawney, but who knows what else, you know, from students, from the staff. You know, he must be extremely lonely. And so, for anyone who’s in a context where they don’t feel like they fit in or they’re not appreciated or they’re lonely, I just wish, you know every goodness and every confidence that you’ve chosen to be here for a reason. And that there are people who appreciate and recognize you for that. How about you Vanessa? Who are you blessing this week?

Vanessa: I would like to bless Ginny Weasley.

Casper: Mmmmmmm.

Vanessa: Her boyfriend makes fun of Harry for looking stupid after he’d been attacked and she is like, “That’s not funny, don’t laugh at that.” And is like, willing to get in a fight for someone else being a bully and a jerk. And I think that is how we teach each other and how we grow and learn. Moments where like, people are laughing at something you just don’t laugh are awesome moments of power. And Ginny, as always, is claiming her full power. And has awakened a monster inside Harry. (Casper laughing) ​ ​

(Outro music begins playing) ​ ​

Vanessa: You’ve been listening to Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. You can follow us on ​ ​ Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook and join our Facebook group to chat with other listeners about the episode. Or you can come and join our community of people who are supporting us on patreon. We’re going to be on holiday break for the next two weeks and then we’re gonna return with an Owl Post on January 9th with Burns Stanfield, a wonderful minister. This episode of Harry Potter and the Sacred Text was produced by Not Sorry Productions, our executive ​ ​ producer is Ariana Nedleman, our music is by Ivan Pyzow and Nick Bohl. And we are a part of Nightvale Presents.

Casper: Thanks to Jordan for this week’s voicemail. To Julia Argy, Nicki Zoltan, Maggie Needham, Meghan Kelly, and of course, Stephanie Paulsell. We’ll see you all after the holiday break. And Happy 2020 everyone!

Vanessa: Happy Hanukkah!

Casper: Merry Christmas!

Vanessa: So here’s a big question for you Casper. Do we count Julie Andrews as a British national treasure or an American one?

Casper: I mean, is she the rare person who can cross both? Cause I feel like she should.

Vanessa: No, I want her for my own. (Casper laughing) ​ ​

Casper: (in a singing voice) Perhaps I had a wicked childhood... ​ ​