LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10899
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 14 May 2014
The Council met at Eleven o'clock
MEMBERS PRESENT:
THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN
THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG
DR THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, B.B.S., M.H.
PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P., Ph.D., R.N.
10900 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C.
THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN
THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, B.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU
THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE
THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, B.B.S.
THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C.
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG
THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10901
THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN
THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN
THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING
THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H.
THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING
THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI
THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK
THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN
DR THE HONOURABLE KENNETH CHAN KA-LOK
THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG
THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, J.P.
10902 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI
THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG
THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG
THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.
THE HONOURABLE TANG KA-PIU
DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P.
IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHUNG SHU-KUN, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN
MEMBERS ABSENT:
THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN
THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10903
PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:
THE HONOURABLE MRS CARRIE LAM CHENG YUET-NGOR, G.B.S., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION
PROF THE HONOURABLE K C CHAN, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY
MR GODFREY LEUNG KING-KWOK, J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
THE HONOURABLE PAUL TANG KWOK-WAI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE
DR THE HONOURABLE KO WING-MAN, B.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH
PROF SOPHIA CHAN SIU-CHEE, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH
MR JAMES HENRY LAU JR., J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY
CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE:
MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL
MRS JUSTINA LAM CHENG BO-LING, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL
MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL
MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL
MRS PERCY MA, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL
10904 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
TABLING OF PAPERS
The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:
No. 100 ─ Research Endowment Fund Financial statements for the year ended 31 August 2013
No. 101 ─ The Government Minute in response to the Report of the Public Accounts Committee No. 61 of February 2014
Report No. 18/13-14 of the House Committee on Consideration of Subsidiary Legislation and Other Instruments
ADDRESSES
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Address. The Chief Secretary for Administration will address the Council on "The Government Minute in response to the Report of the Public Accounts Committee No. 61".
The Government Minute in response to the Report of the Public Accounts Committee No. 61 of February 2014
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, laid on the table today is the Government Minute (GM) responding to Report No. 61 of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC).
When presenting Report No. 61 on 12 February to the Legislative Council, the Chairman of PAC gave comments on three chapters in the Director of Audit's Reports:
(1) Direct land grants to private sports clubs at nil or nominal premium;
(2) Management of roadside skips; and
(3) Allocation and utilization of public rental housing flats.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10905
We are grateful for the time and efforts that the PAC has devoted to investigating these subjects. We accept the PAC's various recommendations and have set out in detail the specific responses of the relevant bureaux or departments in the GM. Today, I would like to highlight the key measures that we have taken in these important policy areas and the progress.
On direct land grants to private sports clubs at nil or nominal premium, the Administration started the private recreational lease (PRL) policy review in September 2013. We will take into account the recommendations of Audit Commission (Audit) and the PAC during the review. The Home Affairs Bureau will take the lead in conducting the PRL policy review from a sports policy perspective and will involve other concerned Policy Bureaux and departments as necessary. In this regard, the Development Bureau and the Planning Department will provide input on land use and planning, and the Lands Department (LandsD) will provide input on land administration matters.
In reviewing the PRL policy, we will take into account factors such as sports development needs, land use, site and facilities utilization, the interests of the lessees and their members, and the wider public interest. In the course of the review, we will also consider how to ensure an appropriate apportionment of sports and non-sports facilities on PRL sites. We expect that preliminary findings of the review will be available by the end of 2014.
The Home Affairs Bureau has asked all lessees to open up their sports facilities more extensively. Apart from providing non-members with a much higher degree of access to their facilities, lessees are also required to operate junior membership schemes to allow talented young athletes to join the clubs as members at greatly reduced levels of subscription fee. The approved "opening up" scheme forms part of the Conditions of Grant when a PRL is renewed.
The Home Affairs Bureau has increased publicity on the availability of sports facilities of lessees for use by outside bodies by various means including advertising in print media, requiring the lessees to provide full information on the "opening up" schemes on their websites, disseminating relevant information through Competent Authorities, District Officers and the Sports Federation and Olympic Committee of Hong Kong, China and uploading the information onto the Home Affairs Bureau's website.
10906 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
The Home Affairs Bureau will issue revised guidelines in mid-2014 to help lessees provide more detailed and informative reports on the implementation of the "opening up" schemes.
The Home Affairs Bureau works closely with the LandsD and other government departments to ensure that PRL sites are used in accordance with their Conditions of Grant. The Home Affairs Bureau will monitor the utilization rates of sports facilities on PRL sites, in particular with regard to the requirement to give greater access to outside bodies in accordance with the approved new "opening up" schemes. Using the quarterly returns as a monitoring tool, the Home Affairs Bureau follows up with lessees in cases of low utilization and conducts random checks on the accuracy of the reported information.
The Administration will work on further strengthening the monitoring mechanism and improving lease conditions. As part of the comprehensive policy review on PRL, the Home Affairs Bureau and the LandsD will clarify their respective responsibilities with regard to inspections on PRL sites and will formulate plans for routine inspections accordingly. In addition to conducting site inspections in the context of processing lease renewals, the LandsD will inspect sites where lease renewal is not yet due.
The LandsD will, in consultation with the Home Affairs Bureau and other relevant bureaux and departments, continue to follow up on individual cases of irregularity and suspected non-compliance with the lease conditions as identified in the Audit Report and take lease enforcement action as appropriate.
On the management of roadside skips, a Joint Working Group led by the Environment Bureau and Environmental Protection Department (EPD) has been set up with participation of eight relevant bureaux and departments. The Joint Working Group is collating data to determine the magnitude of the skip problem. In the light of the data collected, the Working Group will consider and recommend the appropriate measures to better regulate and facilitate the operation of roadside skips for discussion with stakeholders. The Administration will report to the relevant Panel of this Council as soon as the Joint Working Group completes its study later this year. We will also keep the PAC informed of the progress.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10907
Meanwhile, the Transport Department and the EPD are stepping up promotions among the skip operators to enhance their understanding and adoption of the guidelines and good practices on skip operations.
On allocation and utilization of public rental housing flats, the Government is firmly committed to providing public rental housing (PRH) to low-income families who cannot afford private rental accommodation, and will endeavour to maintain the average waiting time (AWT) target of around three years for general applicants on the Waiting List (WL). Under the established methodology, waiting time refers to the time taken between registration on the WL and the receipt of the first flat offer, excluding any frozen period during the application period (for example, when the applicant has not yet fulfilled the residence requirement; the applicant has requested to put his/her application on hold pending arrival of family members for family reunion; the applicant is imprisoned, and so on). The AWT for general applicants refers to the average of the waiting time of general applicants housed to PRH in the past 12 months. Currently, applicants will be given three housing offers to allow them a reasonable range of choices as far as practicable.
We have repeatedly highlighted the definition of the AWT and the basis of its calculation at various public occasions, including meetings of the Legislative Council and to the press. We agree with the recommendations of the Audit and the PAC and will enhance publicity in this aspect. We have uploaded the definition and computation method of AWT onto the Housing Authority (HA)/Housing Department (HD)'s website on 29 January, 2014. We have also taken action to incorporate the definition and computation method for the AWT for applicants into the brochure on "Waiting List for Public Rental Housing ― Information for Applicants" and the application form, together with clearer advice to applicants on the channels for obtaining the declaration forms for PRH applications and the proper use of the forms as recommended by the Audit.
Also, we conducted a detailed analysis of the housing situation of WL applicants in 2011, 2012 and 2013 respectively to study, amongst other things, those general application cases on the WL with longer waiting time. The reports of the analysis have been uploaded onto the website of the HA/HD for public reference. We will continue with this analysis on an annual basis.
10908 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
We consider that priority should continue to be given to general applicants (who are family and the elderly applicants) over non-elderly one-person applicants. Nevertheless, we fully understand that there have been calls from the community for the Quota and Points System (QPS), which is implemented to rationalize and re-prioritize the allocation of PRH to non-elderly one-person applicants, to be refined so as to reduce the waiting time for older one-person applicants. In the Long Term Housing Strategy Consultation Document published by the Steering Committee on Long Term Housing Strategy (the LTHS Steering Committee), the LTHS Steering Committee has also put forward recommendations on the QPS, including allocating more points to those who are above the age of 45, developing a mechanism to regularly review the income and asset of QPS applicants, and so on. We have referred Audit's recommendations and observations, the views received during PAC's public hearings, as well as the LTHS Steering Committee's recommendations and the views of the public collected during the public consultation exercise to the HA for consideration. Thank you, President.
WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
Regulation of Pet Food
1. MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Chinese): President, earlier on, the Consumer Council (CC) conducted a sampling test on dry pet food sold in the market, results of which indicated the presence of harmful substances (including carcinogen aflatoxin B1 or contaminants of melamine and cyanuric acid) in some of the samples. The CC has stated that long-term intake of aflatoxin B1 by animals could increase their risk of liver impairment and tumors in liver of animals whilst intake of both melamine and cyanuric acid may lead to formation of crystals, resulting in blockage of tubules in kidneys that may cause acute renal failure in animals. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether there is currently other legislation, apart from the Trade Descriptions Ordinance (Cap. 362), requiring manufacturers of pet feed and dry pet food (including "complementary and complete feed" and "feed materials") to label the following on the packaging of their products: (i) ingredient table, (ii) best-before date, (iii) place of origin, (iv) recommended daily quantity of feed and (v) age range of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10909
pets for which the product is suitable; if so, of the details, and the date on which the relevant legislation was last amended; if not, the reasons for that; whether it will consider amending the legislation to introduce such requirements;
(2) whether there are currently relevant legislation or standards regulating the food safety of pet feed and dry pet food (including ceilings on the contents of harmful substances); if so, of the details, and the date on which such legislation or standards were last updated; if not, the reasons for that; whether it will consider amending the relevant legislation to impose such regulation;
(3) given that some loose-pack pet food sold in the market do not have their composition and safety information marked on the packaging, whether the authorities have put in place any mechanism for regulating the package descriptions of loose-pack pet food; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(4) given that the Secretary for Food and Health, in reply to a written question from a Member of this Council on 28 March 2012, indicated that the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department (AFCD) would take the initiative to seek information on the quality of pet food products from the importers or distributors concerned where necessary, whether any government department was responsible in the past three years for (i) collecting overseas and local information regarding the safety of pet food, (ii) conducting sampling tests on the safety levels of pet food sold in the market, and (iii) verifying the accuracy of the package descriptions of such food as well as taking the necessary follow-up actions; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(5) whether the authorities or CC received any complaint about pet food in the past two years; if so, of the number of such complaints; and
(6) whether it has considered setting up a channel for disseminating information (such as a reporting mechanism in respect of pet food incidents) so that members of the public can be expeditiously informed of the pet food which may have problems and they may 10910 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
stop feeding their pets with such food; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, at present, we are not aware of any large-scale commercial enterprise in Hong Kong which produces pet food. Some pet owners may choose to prepare food for their pets from fresh ingredients. In recent years, we see a growing tendency for pet owners to feed their pets with processed and pre-packaged food readily available in the market. As pet animals often feed on one single food item on a long-term basis, pet food producers usually employ veterinary surgeons and animal nutritionists to develop different food products which will provide a balanced diet for different types of animals. This is to ensure that the pet food products are suitable for long-term consumption by pet animals and are able to sustain the pets' healthy growth and living.
My reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:
(1), (2) and (3)
Unlike the case of food for human consumption, there are currently no specific safety standards for pet food commonly recognized by international organizations for reference. Producers mainly rely on the professional advice of individual experts or use standards drawn up by individual countries as reference. In most cases, the pet food sold in Hong Kong is compound formula food imported from the United States, Europe and Australia. As pet food producing countries or regions, they have their own regulatory regimes for the production, quality control and description of ingredients of pet food. For instance, the European Union (EU) has enacted specific laws on animal food. The United States has in place a single regime governing food for both human and animal consumption. In Australia and Canada, self-regulation by the trade is practised. Different jurisdictions have developed different regulatory approaches according to their own needs. Major pet food producing countries usually have more stringent regulations. Where necessary, the AFCD will proactively seek information on the quality of pet food products from the importers or distributors concerned. Pet owners who wish to know more about the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10911 particulars of pet food or the needs of individual pets may seek such information from distributors or veterinary surgeons.
In most cases, pre-packaged pet food available on the local market carries labels that provide such information as description of its ingredients, places of origin, and so on. We suggest that pet owners should purchase pet food from reputable retailers and check the date of expiry and nutrition label. For cases of suspected contamination of pet food products, members of the public may make enquiries with the source of purchase and the importer or distributor of the pet food concerned, or contact the AFCD. Where necessary, the AFCD will assist the complainant by following up with the importer or distributor concerned.
The Trade Descriptions Ordinance (Cap. 362) prohibits any person from applying false or misleading trade descriptions to goods in the course of trade or business. The Ordinance applies to general goods including pet food, while "trade description" covers information such as composition and place of origin. Members of the public may report to the Customs and Excise Department any suspected cases of false trade descriptions in relation to pet food. Aggrieved consumers may lodge complaints about pet food with the CC.
Over the past years, no significant pet food safety incidents have been reported in Hong Kong. As pet food available in Hong Kong is generally safe, we do not see the need to introduce legislation to regulate pet food for the time being. The AFCD will continue to keep in view overseas developments in the control of pet food, as well as the overall safety of pet food in Hong Kong. Meanwhile, the AFCD keeps records about major pet food producers and distributors in Hong Kong. This would help facilitate follow-up actions in the event of enquiries or complaints concerning such pet food. The Government will review legislation related to animal welfare from time to time to ensure that the control regime remains relevant and appropriate in changing circumstances and meets the needs of our society.
10912 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
(4) and (5)
As mentioned above, the AFCD keeps records about local major pet food producers and distributors so that enquiries and complaints concerning pet food can be followed up accordingly. Members of the public may report to the Customs and Excise Department any suspected cases of false descriptions in relation to pet food. Aggrieved consumers may lodge complaints about pet food with the CC. The relevant departments and the CC will take follow-up actions or conduct investigations as appropriate.
According to the test conducted by the CC in April on 39 types of dry pet food, the test results for microbes and contaminants in 28 samples detected were satisfactory. Although trace amount of aflatoxin B1(1), melamine(2) or cyanuric acid(3) was detected in the other 11 samples, the levels were all within the safety limits established by the EU and the United States, or of minimal significance. The AFCD will continue to keep in view the overall safety of pet food in Hong Kong as well as the latest standards for pet food around the world.
In the past two years (2012 and 2013), the Customs and Excise Department received two complaints about pet food suspected of violating the Trade Descriptions Ordinance. One of the cases is under investigation, while no violation of that Ordinance is found in the other case. Over the past two years, the AFCD received two complaints concerning pet food whereas the CC received 39 complaints regarding animal food.
(1) Under European Commission Directive 2002/32/EC, the maximum content of aflatoxin B1 allowed in animal feed is 0.02mg/kg (20μg/kg). According to the test results of the CC, although trace amount of aflatoxin B1 was detected in seven samples, the samples met the requirements of the EU on animal feed.
(2) The Codex Alimentarius Commission, the United States Food and Drug Administration and the EU require that the content of melamine in animal feed must not exceed 2.5mg/kg. Of the 39 types of dry pet food tested by the CC, trace amount of melamine in the range of less than 0.1 to 0.16mg/kg (or ppm) was detected in two samples, and such levels meet the abovementioned requirement.
(3) Currently there is no international maximum permitted level of cyanuric acid residue in animal feed. Of the 39 types of dry pet food tested, trace amount of cyanuric acid in the range of 0.72 to 1.3mg/kg (or ppm) was detected in two samples, and such levels are of minimal significance. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10913
(6) Over the past years, no significant pet food safety incidents have been reported in Hong Kong. As pet food available in Hong Kong is generally safe, even though isolated cases may be found occasionally, we do not see the need to set up a specific information dissemination channel for pet food safety incidents for the time being.
The AFCD will continue to remind members of the public to buy pet feed from reputable suppliers for consumption by their pets. Pet feed should be properly stored and consumed as soon as possible once opened, and should not be kept in humid and hot environments. This will prevent breeding of microbes and reduce the chance of the pets getting sick by consuming spoiled dry food. Members of the public should take their pets to reliable veterinary clinics for consultation if they find their pets showing symptoms such as vomiting, diarrhoea or lack of appetite after consuming particular pet feed.
Proposed Environmentally Friendly Linkage System in Kowloon East
2. MR PAUL TSE (in Chinese): President, the Government plans to construct an environmentally friendly linkage system (linkage system) to enhance the connectivity between Kowloon East (including the Kai Tak Development Area, Kowloon Bay and the Kwun Tong Business Area) and other districts. After commissioning a consultancy study on various types of systems (including monorail and modern tramways, and so on), the Government has proposed the two-way elevated monorail option and forecasts that the linkage system can be commissioned in around 2023. The Government has consulted the public on its proposal and is now collating the views received. On the other hand, the MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL) indicated on the 15th of last month that there was delay in the project to construct the Hong Kong Section of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link (XRL project) undertaken by it, and the Secretary for Transport and Housing said that he was totally caught by surprise by such information. There are views that apart from the possible problems of huge overspending, inaccurate estimations, improper supervision, hiding the truth from superiors and misleading subordinates, the delay in the XRL project may be attributed to the fact that the MTRCL, being the dominant market player, had difficulties in deploying resources and construction manpower to 10914 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 carry out a number of large scale projects (including those relating to XRL, the Shatin to Central Link and the South Island Line, and so on) simultaneously. As such, it is inappropriate for the Government to entrust the MTRCL to construct the linkage system. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it has assessed if it is suitable for the linkage system to be constructed by the MTRCL and if the MTRCL has sufficient manpower and resources to ensure that the system can be commissioned in 2023 as scheduled; if the assessment outcome is that the system cannot be commissioned on schedule, of the expected duration of such delay;
(2) given the surging prices of construction materials in recent years, coupled with the risk of project delay, whether it has assessed if the costs of the proposed elevated monorail will be substantially higher than the original estimates; if the assessment outcome is in the affirmative, of the anticipated increase in the costs; and
(3) given that the Hong Kong Tramways Limited has proposed that modern tramways is the most suitable option for the linkage system (and it has been reported that according to the latest proposal put forward by the company, the option will include the construction of an additional transportation link between Kwun Tong and the Cruise Terminal), and indicated that the system can be commissioned as early as in 2018 while the fare for a single journey will need to be set at merely HK$3 for attaining a breakeven, whether the Government will consider and examine afresh the option put forward by the company, with a view to avoiding the dominance of the MTRCL in rail transport and over-reliance upon the MTRCL for the construction and operation of mass transit systems?
SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, due to the limited road surface in Kowloon East, it cannot cope with the ever-increasing traffic activities on roads arising from the long term development of "Energizing Kowloon East". As such, we need to introduce an elevated monorail Environmentally Friendly Linkage System (EFLS), which would occupy relatively less road surface, to serve as the backbone of linkage within the district. The EFLS will also be supplemented by other modes of transport (including mass LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10915 transit railway (MTR), environmentally friendly buses/minibuses and pedestrian facilities) in meeting the transport demand.
According to the outcome of our two-stage public consultation on the EFLS just concluded, the public generally supported the Government to conduct a detailed feasibility study on the EFLS in order to devise the way forward. We plan to report the outcome of the above public consultation exercise to the Panel on Development of Legislative Council in the latter half of May this year with a view to commencing the detailed feasibility study on the EFLS in early 2015.
My reply to the three parts of Mr TSE's question is as follows:
(1) and (2)
The proposed detailed feasibility study will further examine the alignment and construction costs of the EFLS, the financial performance and economic benefits, and the most suitable mode of project implementation and financial arrangements. The study will also formulate proposals for the implementation, construction and operation arrangements of the project. As such, it is premature at the present stage to consider entrusting the construction works to the MTRCL. As regards construction costs, we have yet to make any detailed assessments at this stage. The current estimate on construction costs are just ball-park figures. The costs can only be ascertained in detailed feasibility study.
(3) We do not agree that a modern tramway running on at-grade level is a system suitable for Kowloon East. The existing Kwun Tong and Kowloon Bay are highly developed and the road space available in the existing road network in these districts is already very limited. As such, use of a modern tramway system would seriously affect other road users. Moreover, connecting an at-grade level system to the existing elevated MTR stations at Kwun Tong and Kowloon Bay would be difficult and make it highly inconvenient for passengers to interchange between the two systems and, hence, undermine the overall accessibility of the central business district in Kowloon East.
10916 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Tin Sau Bazaar
3. DR KWOK KA-KI (in Chinese): President, the Tung Wah Group of Hospitals Tin Sau Bazaar (Tin Sau Bazaar) in Tin Shui Wai, which was set up with the facilitation of the Government and under the operation and management of the Tung Wah Group of Hospitals (TWGHs), has commenced operation since February last year. It has been reported that only 60% of the stall operators were willing to renew their tenancies upon the expiry of their one-year tenancy agreements, and the remaining stall operators did not renew their tenancies as business was dull. It has also been reported that when TWGHs invited tenancies for 70 vacant stalls in Tin Sau Bazaar by open application and auction in March this year, the office of Tin Sau Bazaar only gave out some 350 application forms and received around 390 enquiries within the 11-day tenancy invitation period. The response to the tenancy invitation was much less enthusiastic than the situation when tenancies were first invited in late 2011, at which time 3 800 application forms were received. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it has requested TWGHs to conduct a review of the causes of the drastic decrease in the number of applicants for the stalls in Tin Sau Bazaar; if TWGHs has conducted such a review, of the outcome;
(2) of the process by which the Lands Department leased out the site of Tin Sau Bazaar to TWGHs under a five-year short-term tenancy, including whether it has conducted an open tender; if it has, of the details; if not, the policy basis for not conducting an open tender;
(3) whether it has monitored the performance of TWGHs in managing Tin Sau Bazaar; if it has, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; whether it will, in view of the management performance of TWGHs, consider early resumption of the site of Tin Sau Bazaar and re-tendering the site for lease to other non-governmental organizations for operating a bazaar; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(4) given that there are currently 30 stalls which are operated by organizations and four stalls by TWGHs on its own in Tin Sau Bazaar, whether it has assessed if such an arrangement is contrary to the original intention of setting up Tin Sau Bazaar;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10917
(5) whether it will discuss with TWGHs the comprehensive improvement to the facilities of Tin Sau Bazaar, including putting up more directional signs, further improving the power supply and surface drainage facilities, considering afresh the construction of a canopy and introducing a central air-conditioning system; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(6) whether it will request TWGHs to revise the criteria for selecting the stall operators of Tin Sau Bazaar, such as adding the criteria of introducing a greater variety of merchandise, and giving priority to young applicants to provide them with an avenue to start their own business, and so on; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(7) whether it will request TWGHs to extend the business hours of Tin Sau Bazaar or to operate it overnight as well as introduce cooked food stalls; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(8) whether it has requested TWGHs to review the effectiveness of its publicity efforts on Tin Sau Bazaar; if TWGHs have conducted such a review, of the outcome; if the Government has not requested TWGHs to do so, the reasons for that; and whether it will request TWGHs to step up its efforts in this respect; if it will, of the details, if not, the reasons for that;
(9) whether it has compiled statistics on the number of stall operators among the first batch of stall operators of Tin Sau Bazaar, who used to be hawkers carrying out hawking activities in the Morning Bazaar of Tin Shui Wai; whether such stall operators have renewed their tenancies upon the expiry of their one-year tenancy agreements; of the changes in the number of hawkers carrying out hawking activities in the Morning Bazaar since the operation of Tin Sau Bazaar;
(10) whether it will consider setting up similar bazaars in other districts by drawing on the experience in the operation of Tin Sau Bazaar; and
(11) whether it will, in the long run, consider setting up a public market in Tin Shui Wai so as to solve the existing problems of Tin Sau 10918 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Bazaar in one go, including poor environment, insufficient patronage and merchandise failing to meet the needs of the residents in the district; if it will not, of the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, our reply is as follows:
(1) According to the TWGHs, applications for stall tenancy were first invited in late 2012 (not late 2011 as mentioned in the question), with 182 stalls available for lease on a monthly basis, including 30 for organizations and 152 for individuals (plus four stalls operated by TWGHs, making a total of 186 stalls). On the other hand, applications invited for this year involve vacated stalls arising from termination of tenancy agreements upon expiry of their first-year tenancy period. They include 50 stalls opened for application in March this year for Yuen Long residents aged 18 or above interested to join Tin Sau Bazaar (the Bazaar) and underprivileged individuals on Comprehensive Social Security Assistance or with children receiving full textbook assistance, as well as 20 stalls opened for bidding in April this year by experienced commercial operators. Given the considerable reduction in the number (70 in total) and choice of stalls available for application compared to those in late 2012, the number of applications would also decrease correspondingly.
Besides, in response to local requests for enhancement of the operation of the Bazaar, TWGHs has revised the terms of the tenancy agreements to extend the operating hours of stalls from four hours a day last year to eight hours a day this year. The longer operating hours might also affect the response from applicants.
Regarding the 50 stalls available for application in March this year as mentioned above, TWGHs received 89 applications in total, recording an oversubscription rate of almost 100%. As for the 20 stalls available for bidding in April this year, 29 applications were received, representing an oversubscription of almost 50%. All in all, TWGHs finds it difficult to make a direct comparison between the number of applications received in late 2012 and that in early LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10919
2014, having regard to the difference in the situation of the application for tenancy, the number of stalls available, the operational requirements for the stall operators, and so on.
(2) The primary objectives of setting up a bazaar in Tin Shui Wai are to provide more shopping choices and affordable goods for local residents, develop the local economy, and create local employment. As the bazaar operates on a non-profit-making basis, it is most appropriate for a charitable organization to operate it as a social enterprise. Being one of the longest standing and largest charitable organizations in Hong Kong, TWGHs has considerable experience in running a social enterprise. Noting the need to establish a bazaar in Tin Shui Wai, TWGHs submitted its proposal to the Government quickly, indicating its interest in operating and managing the bazaar. After the Government had accepted the proposal, the Lands Department, with policy support, directly leased the site to TWGHs at a nominal rate according to the established procedures.
(3) TWGHs and the Government have been closely monitoring the operation of the Bazaar, and have been listening to the requests and views of stall operators, District Council Members and other stakeholders. For instance, views are collected at the regular liaison meetings with the stall operators of the Bazaar, while TWGHs' staff, including social workers, stationed at the Bazaar collect views and provide the stall operators with assistance. Moreover, TWGHs has to comply with the conditions of the short-term tenancy when operating the Bazaar.
The Yuen Long District Council (YLDC) and the Legislative Council have also been monitoring the operation of the Bazaar. Before setting up the Bazaar, TWGHs consulted YLDC on 25 October 2012 as well as the Panel on Home Affairs (the Panel) of the Legislative Council on 14 December 2012 and obtained their support. After setting up the Bazaar, TWGHs updated the Panel and YLDC on the latest operation of the Bazaar on 14 June and 3 September 2013 respectively, and has improved the operation and management of the Bazaar in response to Members' comments.
To strengthen the operation and management of the Bazaar, TWGHs set up "The Advisory Committee on the Management of Tin Sau 10920 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Bazaar" (the Advisory Committee) in late 2013 as a platform for thorough discussions by the representatives elected by stall operators and other stakeholders including representatives of TWGHs, government departments and YLDC as well as academics or members of the community to study the measures to support stall operators and enhance the business development of the Bazaar. The Advisory Committee met on 12 November 2013 and 13 February 2014 and provided constructive advice on the long-term development as well as short- and medium-term venue improvement measures of the Bazaar. TWGHs and the Government expect that the operation and management of the Bazaar will be improved further.
(4) When applications for stall tenancy were first invited by TWGHs in late 2012, 30 stalls were allocated to non-governmental organizations and social enterprises for the purposes of creating employment for the local underprivileged and fostering social integration. Upon tenancy renewal in early 2014, 13 organizations fulfilled the requirements for continuing with the operation of their stalls.
In addition, TWGHs operates four stalls as social enterprise selling refreshment and chilled meat in order to enhance the variety of products and respond to the request for selling meat in the Bazaar.
The above arrangements are in line with the primary objectives for setting up the Bazaar as mentioned in part (2) of this reply.
(5) TWGHs and the Government have been keeping a close watch on and improving the Bazaar. On the provision of more directional signs, the location of the Bazaar has been shown on the maps and station guides at the West Rail (WR) Tin Shui Wai Station as well as on the maps and exit signs at the Light Rail Transit (LRT) Tin Yat and Tin Sau Stations since June 2013.
To improve the capacity of rainwater disposal in the Bazaar, the Architectural Services Department (ArchSD), with the co-ordination of the Yuen Long District Office (YLDO), installed additional service channels at each major aisle and carried out local floor LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10921 levelling in phases between April and June 2013. No flooding occurred in the Bazaar last year and this year under inclement weather when the Black Rainstorm Signal was in force. The situation of puddling of water has also significantly improved.
Further to the introduction of a number of measures to increase power supply and enhance customers' comfort last year, TWGHs has been implementing another series of improvement to the hardware since January this year, including the provision of more sun-shading facilities, installation of an additional 400 ampere (A) cable and preparation for the setting up of more stalls to sell meat and cooked food (see part (7) of the reply for details). TWGHs, in collaboration with the power company, has started works to enhance the electricity supply to a total of 800A for the Bazaar, which are expected to complete by the end of June this year. Stall operators can be allocated with more electricity progressively according to their operational needs in order to further diversify their products and services.
As far as canopy and central air-conditioning system are concerned, since the Bazaar adopts an open layout with standalone stalls of different sizes, the current design is to provide basic facilities for operation under a short-term tenancy of not more than five years. The provision of canopy and central air-conditioning system is incompatible with the concept of outdoor market stalls of the Bazaar. Besides, TWGHs estimates that central air-conditioning will have high energy consumption. The power supply, even after enhancement in the middle of this year, will be insufficient to support it. Furthermore, the operating costs of the stall operators will increase correspondingly which may not be cost effective. Nevertheless, TWGHs has endeavoured to enhance the comfort of the Bazaar visitors during summer and under the sun. In addition to the awning provided by ArchSD for each stall, TWGHs installed a number of outdoor cooling fans and more than 100 sun umbrellas last summer and completed tree planting in March this year. More than 60 tailor-made large sun umbrellas will also be provided soon to enlarge the shaded area.
10922 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
(6) At its meeting on 13 February 2014, the Advisory Committee endorsed the criteria for allocation of stalls and selection of individual applicants, and decided to set aside some of the stalls for open bidding. Open bidding can attract stall operators with more business experience, hence further diversify the goods and services available in the Bazaar.
The Bazaar facilitates the entrepreneurial endeavours of stall operators, including young people, by offering relatively low-cost stalls. A young stall operator established his first computer maintenance service centre in the Bazaar. Having operated there for a year, he has established a total of three shops in Tin Shui Wai. Another young operator set up a magic store in the Bazaar, offering courses on magic performance and performing magic shows from time to time at festive events held in the Bazaar.
(7) At present, the Bazaar operates from 8 am to 8 pm. This is a consensus reached upon consulting YLDC, nearby residents and relevant stakeholders by TWGHs before the establishment of the Bazaar. To facilitate Bazaar visitors during festivals, TWGHs appropriately extended the opening hours of the Bazaar during Mid-autumn Festival last year (to 9:00 pm for three days during the festival) and Chinese New Year this year (up to 11 pm the latest for three days before the festival). The feedback was positive. TWGHs will continue to strive for a balance between the daily life of nearby residents and the development needs of the Bazaar by arranging the opening hours flexibly as appropriate.
As regards cooked food stalls, two stalls operated by TWGHs as social enterprise are selling reheated refreshments. TWGHs is equipping these two stalls for processing and selling cooked food. In addition, of the 70 vacant stalls which were open for application and bidding, four have been reserved for those intending for cooked food business. Upon enhancement of the overall power supply by mid-2014, TWGHs and the stall operators concerned may apply to the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department (FEHD) for the relevant licences for sale of cooked food.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10923
(8) TWGHs keeps under review the effectiveness of its publicity efforts on the Bazaar and steps up related promotion. TWGHs regularly distributes promotional leaflets at locations with high pedestrian flow, such as shopping arcades, WR and LRT stations, and major bus stops adjacent to the Bazaar. Since July 2013, TWGHs has put up publicity banners at 33 roadside locations in Yuen Long Town and Tin Shui Wai as well as in Tin Sau Road Park. Publicity banners and posters are also put up in most of the housing estates in Tin Shui Wai to promote the activities at the Bazaar. In addition, TWGHs placed bus body advertisements in August 2013 and promotional video on Roadshow in buses from August to October 2013.
TWGHs organizes special events such as fairs and carnivals of various themes at the Bazaar around the time of festivals to attract visitors. The open space in the Bazaar is also made available to local groups for hosting events to enhance patronage. Major activities held at the Bazaar include its opening ceremony, "2013 Biciline New Year Bicycle Parade", "Healthy Food Carnival 2013" co-organized with Yuen Long Farmers' Market, "Back To School Fun Day" for the sale of books and stationery, "Yuen Long Specialty Products and Delicacies Carnival" co-organized with Yuen Long Merchants Association, "Christmas Thankful Sale" with holiday mobile stalls, "Year of the Horse Lunar New Year Fair" and "Colourful Easter" carnival. YLDO also organizes community involvement activities in Tin Sau Road Park adjacent to the Bazaar, including the recent "Kick-off Ceremony of Yuen Long District Youth Festival 2014". YLDO plans to stage activities such as the opening ceremony of "Colourful Life @ Yuen Long" in August and "Tin Shui Wai North Area Committee Carnival cum Prize Presentation Ceremony" in October at the Bazaar. Since inception on 1 February 2013, the Bazaar has attracted a total of 607 395 visitors as at 30 April 2014. Subsequent to the implementation or completion of various enhancement measures (including improvement to drainage, increased directional signs, stepped up publicity, staging of large-scale events, as well as additional sun-shading facilities and access points) around September 2013, the number of visitors on weekdays and holidays has increased progressively from September 2013 to, say, before the Chinese New 10924 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Year in late January 2014, with holiday patronage recording a 40% increase.
(9) When application for stall tenancy was first invited in late 2012, 72 hawkers of the "morning bazaar", recommended by social workers, applied to operate in Tin Sau Bazaar. Sixty seven of them were admitted. Upon expiry of their one-year tenancy, 33 of them fulfilled the requirements for tenancy renewal.
As regards the "morning bazaar" located by the side of Tin Shui Wai Nullah, the FEHD has continued to monitor its situation closely. In general, the FEHD adopts the strategy of warning before enforcement, while prosecution will be conducted if the hawkers concerned ignore the warning. Given the important policy objective of safeguarding food safety and public health, the FEHD takes instant prosecution action against unlicensed hawkers selling prohibited goods/controlled goods/cooked food. Currently, about 20 hawkers remain at the "morning bazaar", selling mainly vegetables and dry goods such as preserved food and clothes.
(10) The Government is open-minded towards proposals of setting up bazaars. Any concrete proposal of bazaar at suitable location should be made upon consensus forged at the district level with due consideration of the views of nearby residents and the endorsement of the District Council after thorough discussion. If a consensus can be reached at the district level, the relevant government departments will take follow-up actions within their ambits. The Bazaar is one of the examples of establishing a bazaar in response to district needs, in accordance with the specific situation of Tin Shui Wai. The Government will continue to monitor closely the operation of the Bazaar and draw on the experience. Taking into account the consensus and specific situations of each district, the relevant departments will also jointly explore whether there are needs to set up open-air bazaars in other districts. Factors to be considered include assessments on the availability of suitable sites, transport, noise, environmental hygiene and management.
(11) According to the Food and Health Bureau, various factors have to be taken into account for the construction of public markets, including LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10925
the number of market facilities and fresh provision shops in the vicinity, and so on, in order to ensure the proper use of public money. The Director of Audit has also pointed out in one of his past reports that owing to the high cost for building a public market, the viability of the market has to be duly assessed in determining whether a new market should be constructed.
At present, there are six markets operated by The Link and the Housing Authority in Tin Shui Wai as well as 13 shopping arcades, 13 supermarkets and about 90 fresh provision shops in various housing estates to cater for the daily shopping needs of local residents. According to experience, the viability of a new market will be adversely affected if there are many retail outlets selling similar products/foods in the catchment area of the new market, resulting in high vacancy of market stalls and substantially undermining the functions of the facilities in providing services to the public.
On account of the above considerations, the FEHD has no plans to provide a new market in Tin Shui Wai.
Decisions on Whether Country Park Enclaves Should be Incorporated into Country Parks
4. MR WU CHI-WAI (in Chinese): President, I have learnt that the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department (AFCD) decided in recent months that six country park enclaves (enclaves) located in Hoi Ha, Pak Lap, So Lo Pun, Pak Tam Au, Tin Fu Tsai and To Kwa Peng would not be incorporated into country parks. Yet, a number of members of the Country and Marine Parks Board (CMPB) have pointed out that Hoi Ha, Pak Lap and So Lo Pun are areas of high ecological value, and they are dissatisfied that the AFCD did not provide the CMPB with the relevant information nor consult the CMPB before making the aforesaid decision. Nevertheless, the AFCD has indicated that it will submit for CMPB's consideration only those proposals concerning the designation of lands as country parks. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether the AFCD had fully consulted the CMPB before making the decision of not incorporating the six aforesaid enclaves into country 10926 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
parks; if it had, of the consultation process; if not, the reasons for that;
(2) whether it has all along been the practice of the AFCD to consult the CMPB only on the enclaves which it considers suitable for incorporation into country parks; whether the AFCD has unilaterally revised the procedure for consulting the CMPB; if it has, when and why the procedure was revised; if not, whether it will consider consulting the CMPB on the incorporation into country parks or otherwise of all enclaves;
(3) as the CMPB endorsed a set of revised principles and criteria for designating country parks in May 2011, whether the AFCD will draw up a timetable for expeditious assessments, based on such principles and criteria, of the suitability of all enclaves for incorporation into country parks; if it will, of the specific timetable; if not, the reasons for that;
(4) of the AFCD's assessment results of the six aforesaid enclaves in terms of their (i) conservation value, (ii) landscape and aesthetic value and (iii) recreational development potential, as well as (iv) the reasons for not incorporating such lands into country parks (set out in the table below); and
Enclaves (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) Hoi Ha Pak Lap So Lo Pun Pak Tam Au Tin Fu Tsai To Kwa Peng
(5) whether the AFCD will make public all the discussion papers regarding enclaves submitted to the CMPB in the past three years, so as to let the public and this Council understand the criteria adopted by the AFCD for assessing whether the relevant enclaves should be incorporated into country parks; if it will not, of the reasons for that?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10927
SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Chinese): President, in the 2010-2011 Policy Address, the Government undertook to either include the 54 enclaves which had yet to be incorporated into country parks or protected by statutory plans into country parks, or determine their proper uses through statutory planning to meet conservation and social development needs. The AFCD and the Planning Department carry out assessments having regard to the actual circumstances of each enclave, including factors of conservation value, landscape and aesthetic value, geographical locations, existing scale of human settlements of the sites, and the relevant development pressure, in determining which enclaves are to be incorporated into country parks under the Country Parks Ordinance (CPO) or protected by statutory plans under the Town Planning Ordinance. My reply to Mr WU Chi-wai's questions is as follows:
(1) and (2)
On assessing whether individual enclave is suitable for incorporation into country parks, the Country and Marine Parks Authority (that is, the Director of Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation, hereinafter as the Authority) have always referred to the principles and criteria for designating new country parks or extending existing country parks which was endorsed by the CMPB at its meeting held in May 2011, which include conservation value, landscape and aesthetic value, recreational potential, size, proximity to existing country parks, land status and land use compatibility.
CMPB is the consultative body to the Authority on the matters of country and marine parks. As far as country parks are concerned, the terms of reference of the CMPB are laid down under section 5(1) of the CPO as follows:
(i) to act as a consultative body to advise the Authority upon any matter referred to it by the Authority;
(ii) to consider and to advise the Authority on, the policy and programmes prepared by the Authority in respect of country parks and special areas, including proposed country parks and special areas; and
10928 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
(iii) to consider any objection that may be lodged under section 11 or section 17(1).
The AFCD has not unilaterally revised the procedure and principles for consulting the CMPB. Rather, it has always honored the terms of reference of the CMPB as set out under section 5(1) of the CPO in deciding what matters should be endorsed by the CMPB. For enclaves which are considered to be suitable for incorporation into country parks after assessment, the Authority will submit the detailed assessments and designation proposals to the CMPB for endorsement in accordance with the purview of the CMPB under section 5(1)(b) of the CPO. Such enclaves include Sai Wan, Kam Shan and Yuen Tun which have already been incorporated into country parks and Fan Kei Tok, Sai Lau Kong and the site near Nam Shan which are proposed to be incorporated into country parks. The Authority consulted the CMPB on the assessments of these sites.
As to the enclaves which are assessed to be not suitable for incorporation into country parks, the Planning Department will prepare statutory town plans for the consideration by the Town Planning Board in accordance with the Town Planning Ordinance. Although it does not fall on the scope covered under section 5(1) of the CPO, the Authority will provide an assessment summary to the CMPB for information.
(3) In the course of country park designation of Sai Wan, Heung Yee Kuk (HYK) and the rural sectors have expressed very strong opposition to the incorporation of private land and village environs into country parks. Against this background, the Authority considers that it is more important to demonstrate to the HYK and the rural sectors that mutual benefits can be achieved through striking a balance between the villagers and private land owners and conservation work after the private lands are incorporated into country park, Sai Wan being a case in point. It is therefore suggested proceeding now with those enclaves which have no private land and no village environs while the CMPB is engaging the villagers to work out a suitable management plan for Sai Wan. The
(1) Section 11 of the CPO concerns about the objections against draft maps while section 17 is relevant to the objection to notice under section 16(2) (control of use of land in country park). LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10929
Authority recommends incorporating three enclaves with no private land and no village environ at Fan Kei Tok, Sai Lau Kong and the site near Nam Shan into country parks in accordance with the established principles and criteria. The assessments have been endorsed by the CMPB and the Authority is seeking the views of the stakeholders.
(4) Further to the replies in parts (1) and (2), the CMPB has endorsed the revised principles and criteria for designating new country parks or extending existing country parks, including conservation value, landscape and aesthetic value, recreational potential, size, proximity to existing country parks, land status and land use compatibility. For the six enclaves of Hoi Ha, Pak Lap, So Lo Pun, Pak Tam Au, Tin Fu Tsai and To Kwa Ping, the assessments revealed that their conservation values range from medium high to high while their landscape and aesthetic values vary from medium low to high. In the meantime, these enclaves are open valleys where most of the private land and village environs are located on their open flat land, making them unsuitable for recreational use by the public. Besides, the existing use in Tin Fu Tsai is incompatible to the surrounding country park areas. In summary, according to the established principles and criteria, these enclaves are considered not suitable for incorporation into country parks due to the land use, development potential, private land distribution pattern and uses and the location of village environs, and so on. The Authority provided the assessment summary of these enclaves to the CMPB for information on 12 February 2014.
(5) The papers discussed by the CMPB in the past three years have been uploaded to the AFCD's website for public access.
Measures to Combat Money Laundering Activities
5. MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Chinese): President, some accountants have pointed out that as Hong Kong is a free port without any restriction on capital inflow and outflow, and it adheres to a simple and low tax regime, coupled with the fact that the procedure for setting up a company is simple and convenient, it is susceptible to be used by lawbreakers as a base for money laundering activities. 10930 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
It has been reported that the authorities received over 33 000 suspicious transaction reports (STRs) last year, representing an increase of more than 40% over 2012. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it has assessed if the substantial increase in the number of STRs received last year as compared with that of the preceding year was a result of more rampant money laundering activities or that of increased public awareness of the relevant legislation; if the assessment outcome is the former, of the specific measures put in place by the authorities to step up law enforcement;
(2) given that the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect, which allows the Mainland and Hong Kong investors to trade through local securities companies eligible stocks listed on the stock exchange of the other side, will be implemented in six months, whether the authorities have assessed if the settlement method of such transactions will encourage cross-boundary money laundering activities; if the assessment outcome is in the affirmative, of the measures put in place by the authorities to plug any loophole and reduce the risks involved; if the assessment outcome is in the negative, the justifications for that;
(3) as I have learnt that quite a number of law-enforcement officers previously responsible for combating money laundering activities have changed jobs to work in private financial institutions, whether the authorities have any plan to step up training and recruitment of such talents, so as to ensure effective combat of the ever-changing and increasingly rampant money laundering activities; if they have, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(4) given that the Joint Financial Intelligence Unit (JFIU), formed by officers from the Hong Kong Police Force and the Customs and Excise Department, is currently responsible for managing STR in relation to money laundering and terrorists' financing activities, whether the authorities have any plan to reorganize JFIU into an independent regulatory body, so as to enhance its functions and independence, thereby stepping up the efforts in combating the related illegal activities?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10931
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Chinese): President,
(1) Since the full operation of the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter- Terrorist Financing (Financial Institutions) Ordinance (AMLO) on 1 April 2012, financial institutions have been required to comply with the statutory requirements on customer due diligence and record keeping. This has strengthened significantly the anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing regulatory regime for the financial services industry in Hong Kong. For the implementation of the AMLO, relevant financial regulators and financial institutions have updated their guidelines to enhance financial service practitioners' awareness of their obligations to identify and report suspicious transactions.
In 2013, the JFIU received a total of 32 907 STRs, up 41% from the 23 282 STRs recorded in 2012. Of these, over 90% of the STRs were lodged by financial institutions (including those from the banking, securities and insurance sectors, and money service operators). The police believe that the rise in STRs reflects an enhanced degree of awareness of the AMLO and the relevant statutory reporting obligations in the community (in particular among financial institutions).
(2) Under the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect, the Stock Exchange of Hong Kong and Shanghai Stock Exchange will allow investors to trade eligible shares listed on the other market through local securities firms or brokers. On the trading side, the two exchanges will each establish a subsidiary in the other market to receive orders from their respective participants to trade eligible shares and route them onto the trading platforms of the other exchange for execution. On the clearing and settlement side, the Hong Kong Securities Clearing Company and China Securities Depository and Clearing Corporation will become a participant of each other to provide settlement and clearing services for cross-boundary trading through the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect within a closed loop subject to comprehensive risk management measures. With such arrangements, the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect ensures the money that flows into its system can only be used for trading eligible 10932 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
A-shares or Hong Kong shares. Upon the sale of these shares, the funds so obtained will flow back to their originating market through the respective clearing system and cannot remain in the other market or be used to buy other asset classes therein. At the initial stage of the pilot programme, cross-boundary RMB investments will be subject to quotas.
The regulatory authorities of the two sides will take all necessary measures to establish an effective regime under the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect to address any misconduct in either or both markets timely.
The Guideline on Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorist Financing published by the Securities and Futures Commission (SFC) provides specific guidance to assist licensed corporations, registered intermediaries and their senior management in formulating and implementing their own anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing policies, procedures and controls in line with the requirements under the AMLO. The requirements are the same as those for dealing in local shares or shares listed on markets outside Hong Kong (including A-shares to be traded via the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect). The SFC can take enforcement actions against licensed corporations or registered intermediaries failing to comply with the customer due diligence and record-keeping requirements under the AMLO.
In addition, when Mainland brokers receive orders from clients to trade Hong Kong shares via the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect, they are required to take appropriate measures to handle such clients' transactions in accordance with the Mainland laws and relevant regulations. This is in line with the arrangements for other overseas investors currently trading Hong Kong shares via their own local brokers.
(3) In terms of manpower training and recruitment, the police strive to develop a pool of skilled police officers with criminal investigation skills and relevant knowledge on financial investigation. The police also collaborate closely with local law-enforcement agencies and financial regulators and those outside Hong Kong in combating LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10933
money laundering offences. In addition to providing regular financial investigation courses to police officers of different ranks, the police send representatives to attend regular meetings held by international organizations (such as the Financial Action Task Force) to exchange investigation experiences and knowledge with counterparts in other jurisdictions.
In view of the changes in crime trends, techniques and the number of cases, the police will continue to deploy resources flexibly to tackle all crimes, including money laundering crimes, effectively. The Commissioner's Operational Priorities 2014 have set "targeting and investigating money laundering activities" and "confiscating proceeds of crime" as key operational areas to which the Force will accord priority.
(4) Since its inception in 1989, the JFIU has committed to processing and analysing STRs, and providing financial intelligence and crime investigation support to law-enforcement agencies in a timely manner, with the aim to achieve prosecution against money laundering offences successfully, and freeze and confiscate proceeds of crime. At the same time, the JFIU has been in close co-operation with financial regulators, related professional bodies and other stakeholders in the fight against money laundering offences. As this area of work has been functioning effectively, the Government has no plan to make changes to the JFIU institutionally.
Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect Pilot Programme
6. MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Chinese): President, following the remarks made by the State Premier at the Boao Forum for Asia on the 10th of last month that "conditions would be actively created for the establishment of a Shanghai-Hong Kong stock exchanges connectivity mechanism" (the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect), the China Securities Regulatory Commission (CSRC) and the Securities and Futures Commission (SFC) of Hong Kong made a joint announcement immediately on the same day that a Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect pilot programme would be launched officially six months later, allowing investors of both places, through their local securities companies, to place orders to trade eligible shares listed on the stock 10934 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 exchange of the other side. There are comments that the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect marks an important step in the financial reform in China, but it will at the same time bring about problems of cross-boundary regulation. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether the authorities have conducted any comprehensive and in-depth assessment on the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect to be launched six months later, including the possible positive and adverse impacts that may arise from the relevant co-operation model; if so, of the assessment outcome; and
(2) how the authorities will ensure that no adverse impact will be brought about by the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect to the existing regulatory system and investor protection measures in Hong Kong, including how the authorities will tackle problems of cross-boundary regulation so arise; in discussing with the stock exchanges of Shanghai and Hong Kong on matters relating to the "connectivity mechanism", how the authorities will ensure that the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect can achieve the greatest effect in promoting the financial and economic development of both places, rather than merely benefiting the development of the relevant stock exchanges themselves; whether the authorities or the Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Limited have currently formulated any plan or timetable for further extension of the relevant programme, such as co-operation with the Shenzhen Stock Exchange under a model similar to the "connectivity mechanism"?
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Chinese): President, on 10 April 2014, Premier LI Keqiang announced the establishment of mutual access between Hong Kong and Shanghai stock markets, with a view to further promoting the two-way opening up of the capital markets of the two sides. On the same day, the CSRC and the SFC of Hong Kong announced in a joint statement that they had approved, in principle, the development of a pilot programme (Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect) for establishing mutual stock market access between Shanghai and Hong Kong. Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect will not only help strengthen the two securities markets, but will also have long-term and strategic significance.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10935
This is a mutually beneficial development. For the Mainland, Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect will help increase the participation of overseas investors, in particular institutional investors, in the Shanghai securities market, which will promote the further development of the market in a step-by-step manner, enable Mainland investors to invest in overseas markets in an orderly way, enhance the opening up of the Mainland's capital markets and promote the internationalization of the Renminbi (RMB). For Hong Kong, Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect will strengthen the strategic co-operation and interaction between the Hong Kong and the Mainland markets, catalyze the two-way RMB fund flows between the onshore and offshore markets, and further increase the liquidity of the offshore RMB market in Hong Kong, whilst reinforcing and enhancing Hong Kong's position as the premier international financial centre and offshore RMB business centre through this process.
The development of Hong Kong as an offshore RMB business centre has made significant progress over the past few years. The relevant financial platforms are increasingly comprehensive and are ready to capture the opportunities offered by mutual access between the Hong Kong and Shanghai stock markets. As the two-way opening-up of the Mainland capital markets and the internationalization of RMB proceed further, Hong Kong will continue to play a unique and indispensable role in the process.
The government and regulatory authorities of the two sides, together with the Shanghai Stock Exchange (SSE), the Stock Exchange of Hong Kong Limited (SEHK), the China Securities Depository and Clearing Corporation Limited (ChinaClear) and the Hong Kong Securities Clearing Company Limited (HKSCC), have worked closely together on the development of Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect. To launch Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect, the preparatory work will take approximately six months.
The regulatory authorities of the two sides will take all necessary measures to establish, in the interests of investor protection, an effective regime under Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect to respond to all misconduct in either or both markets on a timely basis. CSRC and SFC will upgrade the current bilateral agreement to strengthen enforcement co-operation in respect of mainly the following areas:
- referral and information exchange mechanisms concerning improper activities;
10936 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
- investigatory co-operation in relation to cross boundary illegal activities including disclosure of false or misleading information, insider dealing and market manipulation;
- bilateral enforcement exchange and training; and
- enhancement of general standards of cross-boundary enforcement co-operation.
The regulatory authorities of the two sides will establish a dedicated liaison mechanism for Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect to deal with any issues that may be encountered during the pilot programme which may require joint resolution. SSE, SEHK, ChinaClear and HKSCC will collaborate with one another to develop the operational and other components of Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect prior to launch, including all necessary arrangements to ensure an orderly market and prudent risk management. Launch of Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect will only take place once relevant trading and clearing rules and systems have been finalized, all regulatory approvals have been granted, market participants have had sufficient opportunity to configure and adapt their operational and technical systems. All necessary investor education programmes must also be in place. SSE, SEHK, ChinaClear and HKSCC will, during the development of Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect, and prior to launch, liaise with market participants in relation to all rules, systems and technical requirements relevant to their operations.
We will accumulate experience through the implementation of Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect, and discuss enhancement and expansion arrangements with the market and the relevant authorities of the Central People's Government in a step-by-step manner.
Development of Kowloon East into a Tourism and Core Commercial District
7. MR WONG KWOK-KIN (in Chinese): President, some members of the public have pointed out that with the commissioning of the first berth of the Kai Tak Cruise Terminal (the Terminal) in the middle of last year, the number of tourists moving around in Kowloon East (KE) will be increasing continuously. The Government is committed to developing KE into a tourism and core commercial district, with a number of sites in KE having been converted for hotel LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10937 use. Yet, as the existing ancillary transport and shopping facilities in KE mainly serve the general public, the development of the district may be constrained and it may affect the original life style of the local residents. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it has assessed the numbers, and their rates of increase, of passenger arrivals and departures through the Terminal upon the commissioning of the second berth of the Terminal this year; if it has, of the assessment results;
(2) whether the authorities will organize mega events targeting mainly at Hong Kong people at the Cruise Terminal Building or its rooftop garden so as to increase the visitor flow of the Terminal; if they will, of the details of such events;
(3) of the respective numbers of hotels in Wong Tai Sin (WTS) and Kwun Tong (KT) which are currently (i) in operation, (ii) under construction and (iii) at the planning stage with planning applications submitted to the Town Planning Board, as well as the respective total numbers of hotel rooms being provided/to be provided in these hotels;
(4) whether it has assessed the impacts of the tourists brought about by the Terminal on the traffic-bearing capacity, coach parking spaces, shop rentals and livelihood-related consumption activities, and so on, in WTS and KT; if it has, of the assessment results; if not, the reasons for that; and
(5) as it has been reported that WTS and KT are districts with relatively high concentration of the poor and the elderly, of the measures put in place by the authorities to ensure that the development of KE into a tourism and core commercial district will not affect the consumption activities and daily lives of local residents as well as the community services rendered to them?
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the Kai Tak Cruise Terminal (KTCT) is an important tourism infrastructure of Hong Kong and has gradually won positive comments from 10938 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 cruise companies since the commissioning of the terminal in June last year. After disembarking at the KTCT, passengers will either join local tours arranged by shore excursion operators or plan their own itineraries to various tourist attractions on Hong Kong Island, in Kowloon and on the outlying islands for sightseeing. Some passengers may also stay overnight in Hong Kong before or after their cruise journeys, bringing benefits to the tourism, hotel, retail as well as food and beverages industries across different districts. The Tourism Commission keeps in close communication with the trades and relevant departments to ensure that the overall economy of Hong Kong benefits from the development of cruise industry, and a balance is struck between the needs of both visitors and local residents.
My reply to the five parts of the question is as follows:
(1) As at mid-April this year, there were a total of 21 ship calls at the KTCT since its commissioning in June last year. The total passenger throughput at the KTCT is 47 000 arrivals and 46 000 departures.
According to the latest information from the terminal operator, there will be a total of 27 ship calls at the KTCT in 2014. To date, the terminal operator has received 26 cruise ship bookings for berthing slots in 2015. As for the figures and growth rate of passenger throughput upon the commissioning of the KTCT's second berth, it is difficult to project accurately as they will depend on the actual loading of the cruise ships. Yet, as many international cruise companies are actively considering increasing the number of ship calls at the KTCT in the coming years, we are confident that both the utilization rate and passenger throughput of the KTCT will continue to rise in the future.
(2) The terminal operator is actively developing non-cruise businesses by attracting different sectors of the community to organize events at the KTCT. Apart from brand promotional activities, the KTCT has hosted activities that were open to the general public. Examples include the "Cruise Holiday Expo" organized by the Travel Industry Council at the KTCT last September, which was the first ever exposition in Hong Kong that targeted at cruise passengers and attracted about 30 000 attendants; on 1 December last year, we LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10939
organized the "Community Planting Day" at the rooftop park of the terminal, which was attended by District Council members and primary school students; on March this year, the area of the KTCT served as the official starting and finishing point for the 10-kilometre marathon race; and from 18 to 23 April this year, the world's largest floating book fair, Logos Hope, berthed at the KTCT and about 24 000 members of the public boarded the ship. The rooftop park of the terminal also hosted various events organized by schools and local organizations, such as drawing competitions for school students and school picnics.
Looking ahead, many organizations have expressed interest in holding a variety of events at the KTCT and are currently in discussion with the terminal operator. For instance, the Leisure and Cultural Services Department plans to organize the "Dance cum Recreation and Sport Carnival" at the KTCT Park on 27 September this year, featuring game stalls, dancing performances and play-in.
(3) According to the Hong Kong Tourism Board, as at end 2013, WTS has one hotel with 695 rooms while KT has three hotels that provide a total of 1 155 rooms. Over the next four years (2014 to 2017), one new hotel with 334 rooms will be completed in WTS while five new hotels providing a total of 1 018 rooms will be completed in KT. The Government is identifying feasible ways so as to gradually release the six sites within the "hotel belt" at the former Kai Tak runway to the market from end of next year (that is, end of 2015) onwards in order to increase hotel room supply.
(4) When a cruise ship berths in Hong Kong, passengers may join various on-shore excursion tours arranged by the cruise company or plan their own itineraries. According to our observation, cruise passengers generally disperse to Hong Kong Island, Kowloon or the outlying islands to visit different tourist attractions and will not overly concentrate in a particular district. In respect of transport, the KTCT has not caused adverse impact on the traffic of the WTS and KT districts so far. Generally speaking, the local traffic conditions and utilization rate of coach parking spaces in these districts remain normal.
10940 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
The Transport Department (TD) has been keeping in view on and regularly reviewing the supply and demand of coach parking spaces in the two districts and will take appropriate measures when necessary to cope with the demand. It also listens to the views of the relevant sectors and coach operators from time to time for taking follow-up actions as appropriate. In general, the Government will implement the following measures to increase parking spaces in individual districts where supply is tight:
(i) provide additional on-street parking spaces, subject to no adverse effect on road safety and no disturbance to road users;
(ii) allocate land which is not planned for immediate development for use as temporary carparks;
(iii) where the demand for designated parking spaces for non-franchised buses is particularly keen (for example, at popular tourist attractions), the Government will consider designating certain existing temporary carparks exclusively for non-franchised buses when renewing the tenancies of the sites; and
(iv) require an appropriate number of parking spaces to be designated for use by non-franchised buses in suitable development projects.
In addition, the Travel Industry Council of Hong Kong issues notices to travel agents from time to time reminding them to ensure that their coaches would comply with the traffic regulations when parking at tourist attractions, to adjust their itineraries according to traffic conditions to avoid causing congestion in the vicinity of tourist attractions, and to minimize inconvenience to other road users.
(5) The Development Bureau is actively taking forward the policy of "Energizing Kowloon East", with the objective of transforming Kowloon East into a core business district that will provide a continual supply of premium offices and business service facilities to support the economic growth of Hong Kong in the long term. The Energizing Kowloon East Office has implemented various initiatives LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10941
in respect of enhancing connectivity, improving the environment and releasing the development potential of the area. It has also conducted studies on the integration and interaction of Kowloon East with its peripheral areas. We are confident that the economic and environmental benefits brought by the transformation of the area will extend beyond the surrounding areas to the adjoining districts, such as KT and WTS. The Government will also monitor the development closely to ensure that local residents will continue to enjoy appropriate community services.
Handling of Passenger Enquiries and Complaints by Public Transport Operators
8. MRS REGINA IP (in Chinese): President, a member of the public has relayed to me that a franchised bus company does not provide its email address on its website. Passengers who wish to make enquiries or lodge complaints to the company can only call its hotline, but they often have to wait for over 30 minutes before they get connected. The member of the public said that the aforesaid situation had been relayed to the bus company concerned and the Transport Department (TD) on several occasions but no improvement had been made so far. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether the operating licences granted by the authorities to public transport operators (including franchised bus companies) require the operators to provide certain channels for members of the public to contact them; if so, of the details;
(2) whether TD will urge various franchised bus companies to improve their channels for members of the public to contact them, including making public their email addresses on their websites; and
(3) of the government department(s) with which members of the public may lodge complaints when they are dissatisfied with the replies from public transport operators to the complaints about the operators' services (for example, lost trips of vehicles or ferries); and the follow-up procedures of such department(s)?
10942 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, the Government has all along been encouraging public transport operators to maintain effective communication with passengers through appropriate channels (including electronic ones). Having regard to the views reflected by members of the public and with the follow-up actions taken by the TD, franchised bus companies have all set up electronic communication channel (email addresses or online forms for passenger feedback). The reply to the three parts of Mrs Regina IP's question is as follows:
(1) and (2)
According to the Operating Agreement signed between the Government and the MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL), the MTRCL has to set up a system to handle passenger complaints and collect suggestions. In this connection, the MTRCL has provided an Online Feedback Form on its website, a telephone hotline and a fax number for passengers to express their views. Besides, passengers may contact station staff directly or fill out the Passenger Suggestion Forms available at stations to reflect their views.
Apart from the more conventional means of communication (that is, telephone hotline, fax and post, and so on), the three franchised bus companies concerned have committed under the three bus franchises commencing in 2013 (granted to New World First Bus Services Limited, Long Win Bus Company Limited and Citybus Limited (Citybus) (for the Airport and North Lantau bus network) respectively) to provide passenger information and enquiry system via the Internet and smart phone applications. The companies have since been doing so and would further enhance the information and enquiry system where appropriate. At present, all franchised bus companies have provided on their websites online forms for passenger feedback or their email addresses. Upon expiry of the next batch of bus franchises, that is, the other three bus franchises held by Citybus (for the Hong Kong Island and cross-harbour bus network), Kowloon Motor Bus Company (1933) Limited and New Lantao Bus Company (1973) Limited respectively, in 2016 to 2017, the Government will make similar arrangements when granting new franchises.
As regards ferries, the existing franchised and major licensed ferry operators have provided their email addresses for passengers to LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10943
express their views. The telephone hotline of the operators and that of the Transport Complaints Unit (TCU) of the Transport Advisory Committee are also displayed at piers and on every vessel.
Passenger service licences require public light bus (PLB) operators to display their telephone hotlines as well as that of TCU inside the compartment of each PLB. The law requires taxi owners to display the telephone hotline of TCU at conspicuous locations inside the taxi compartment. For trams, the Hong Kong Tramways Company has provided on its website an online form for passenger feedback, an email address, a telephone hotline and a fax number. Passengers can pass their views to the company via different channels.
(3) The TD is responsible for monitoring the performance of the public transport operators. Passengers with views or complaints concerning public transport service may either contact the operators direct or approach TD through different channels (including by email
The TD will take appropriate follow-up actions on complaints received through different channels. They include requesting the operators concerned to provide explanations or make improvements. If an operator is unable to give a reasonable explanation or make improvement, the TD will issue reminder or warning in writing to the operator and require improvement measures to be implemented within a specified period. Besides, the TD also conducts surveys and inspections on various public transport services from time to time to ensure that operators maintain proper and efficient services.
Demand-led Redevelopment Project Pilot Scheme
9. MR TONY TSE (in Chinese): President, since the Urban Renewal Authority (URA) commenced implementation of the Demand-led Redevelopment Project (Pilot Scheme) (Demand-led Scheme) in July 2011, it has received a total 10944 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 of 110 applications in three rounds, but has so far accepted and commenced only eight projects. In addition, the Chief Executive said in this year's Policy Address that "the applications [received by URA] are becoming larger [in scale], while the factors to be considered are also increasingly complex. It is necessary for the URA to review the scheme comprehensively and to continue to operate it with due care under the principle of upholding a self-financing objective in the long run, so as to ensure its sustainability." In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it knows the respective numbers, with a breakdown by the District Council (DC) district in which the site concerned is located, of the Demand-led Scheme applications rejected by URA in respect of which:
(i) the sites concerned are smaller than 400 sq m;
(ii) the sites concerned are smaller than 300 sq m; and
(iii) the buildings concerned have been assessed as "not dilapidated, not varied or not poor" in the building condition surveys conducted by URA;
(2) whether it knows the justifications, apart from planning considerations, of URA for making "the site under application not being smaller than 400 sq m" a principle for consideration and an application requirement for the Demand-led Scheme;
(3) whether it has assessed the current number and distribution of the old buildings in Hong Kong that broadly meet the other application requirements for the Demand-led Scheme but the sites concerned are smaller than 400 sq m; if it has, of the findings, with a breakdown of the number by DC district and age of the buildings; if it has not, the reasons for that, and whether it will conduct such an assessment; regarding the buildings the sites of which are smaller than 400 sq m, of the other specific measures and arrangements to assist the relevant property owners in the redevelopment or maintenance of their buildings;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10945
(4) whether it knows the mechanism of URA for conducting building condition surveys for the Demand-led Scheme applications; of the criteria and indicators adopted by URA for carrying out such surveys; of the specific and objective standards for grading the conditions of a building as (i) not dilapidated, (ii) varied, and (iii) poor; whether, prior to conducting assessments in each round of applications, the URA adjusted the mechanism and criteria; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(5) whether it knows if URA has assessed whether URA has adequate manpower and financial resources to handle Demand-led Scheme applications on an ongoing basis; if URA has, of the findings, and the corresponding measures and arrangements; if URA has not, the reasons for that, and whether URA will conduct such an assessment;
(6) whether it knows when a comprehensive review of the Demand-led Scheme will commence at the earliest, as well as the direction, scope, content and time frame of the review; and
(7) whether it knows if URA will make appropriate adjustments to the basic framework for implementing the Demand-led Scheme; if URA will not, of the reasons for that, and how URA will address the rising aspirations among members of the public for redeveloping old buildings?
SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the Urban Renewal Strategy promulgated by the Government on 24 February 2011 (the 2011 URS) proposes that a "people first, district-based, public participatory" approach should be adopted in carrying out urban renewal. Under the new strategy, the URA can forge ahead with urban renewal under diverse forms, including responding to a joint approach from building owners to initiate redevelopment of their lots, thus further expanding the role of URA in tackling the problem of urban decay in the old districts of Hong Kong.
In May 2011, the URA Board approved the implementation framework, principles of consideration and selection criteria of the Demand-led Scheme, which include the requirement that there have to be owners of not less than 67% of the undivided shares of the respective lots of a site under application jointly submitting the application; the site under application should not be smaller than 10946 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
400 sq m; the condition of the buildings covered by the site are identified as "varied" or "poor"; and there are available resources from URA to commence and implement the project within a reasonably short period of time.
Since the rollout of the Demand-led Scheme in July 2011, the URA has launched three rounds of invitation for applications for the Scheme. A total of 110 applications were received with nine projects commenced, including one which was terminated as it failed to meet the required conditions for continued implementation.
My reply to the seven-part question is as follows:
(1) The 110 applications received by URA in the past were mostly from Sham Shui Po, Yau Tsim Mong and Kowloon City Districts. Of these 110 applications, those rejected by URA with site areas smaller than 400 sq m or 300 sq m; or involving buildings not assessed as "varied" or "poor" under URA's building conditions survey (BCS), broken down by their respective DC districts, are as follows:
(iii) Number of applications (i) Number of involving applications (ii) Number of buildings not with site area applications assessed as District larger than with site area "varied" or 300 sq m but smaller than "poor" under smaller than 300 sq m the BCS 400 sq m conducted by URA Central and Western 0 3 3 Sham Shui Po 8 6 22 Yau Tsim Mong 2 10 17 Kowloon City 2 0 8 Kwun Tong 1 0 3 Eastern 0 0 2 Total 13 19 55
Note:
The applications listed in column (iii) above may not necessarily correspond to those listed in columns (i) and (ii)
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10947
(2) Planning considerations and building design considerations are the two major reasons why URA has stipulated a minimum site size requirement of not smaller than 400 sq m for applications for the Demand-led Scheme.
On the planning front, if the site size is not smaller than 400 sq m, there will be less constraint when planning for infrastructural facilities (such as on-site loading/unloading area, and so on) at site. Government, institution or community facilities and other measures with planning benefit to the community such as pavement widening, roadside greening enhancement and provision of public open space, and so on, can also be suitably incorporated into the development.
On the design front, for sites not smaller than 400 sq m, more flexibility in the building design which will give rise to more positive effect on the enhancement of the living environment in the district can be achieved.
(3) As mentioned above, under the principles of consideration and selection criteria of URA's Demand-led Scheme, apart from the requirement that owners of a specified percentage of the undivided shares of the respective lots of a site under application must agree to the application concerned, and that the site under application must be no less than 400 sq m in size, another major consideration is whether the condition of the buildings within the application site is assessed to be "varied" or "poor".
According to the principles of consideration of the Demand-led Scheme, there is only an application requirement that the aggregate site size must be no less than 400 sq m. There is no requirement that each building covered by the application must have a site area of no less than 400 sq m itself. As owners of individual buildings have different considerations in applying for the Demand-led Scheme, for example, while a building with a site area of 300 sq m does not meet the requirement for applying to the Demand-led Scheme, owners of that building may jointly submit an application with owners of the adjacent building which also has a site area of 300 sq m so as to meet the requirement of the Scheme. Furthermore, there is no way for us to assess whether owners owning 10948 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
a specified percentage of the undivided shares of an individual building would be prepared to make an application. For the reasons stated above, we are unable to assess the number of buildings that broadly meet the application criteria for the Demand-led Scheme.
For buildings not meeting URA's requirements for redevelopment, their owners may participate in URA's other assistance schemes for building rehabilitation and redevelopment.
On building rehabilitation, the URA provides building maintenance support to the building owners, including financial assistance and technical support, through its participation in Operation Building Bright(1) launched by the Government in 2009 and jointly implementing the Integrated Building Maintenance Assistance Scheme with the Hong Kong Housing Society and the Buildings Department since 1 April 2011.
On the redevelopment front, the URA has launched the Facilitating Services (Pilot Scheme) following the 2011 URS. Under the Scheme, the URA acts as "facilitator" to help owners assemble titles for joint sale. The Facilitating Services (Pilot Scheme) has been open for application since July 2011. The first successful joint sale by public auction of a project site under the Scheme was completed in November 2013. The URA is now actively facilitating two other applications under the Scheme.
(4) The URA set up a survey methodology for conducting BCS in 2009-2011 and had engaged an independent engineering consultancy firm to conduct the survey. Details of the methodology are as follows.
The BCS inspectors would inspect the common areas of the target buildings, including front elevation, side/rear elevation, rooftop, common staircase and common corridor/lobby. The inspectors would grade the buildings according to the defects found in the
(1) Operation Building Bright launched by the Government in 2009 has assisted owners of over 3 200 buildings which are 30 years old or above to carry out building rehabilitation. URA is implementing the scheme in collaboration with the Hong Kong Housing Society and the Buildings Department and has made financial commitment to it. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10949
common areas (such as common staircase), as well as the size of the defects at the inspected areas. Such defects include spalling concrete, cracks, bulging/distorted concrete, water seepage/stains, unauthorized building works and signs of repair works in the past, and so on. The grading is based on the seriousness and the degree of damage that these defects have on the structural condition of the building. The survey data will be analysed by a computer programme which will come up with a score for each building. The higher is the score, the poorer is the assessed building condition. A building will be identified as "varied" or "poor" when the score reaches a certain level.
The BCS methodology and grading system as mentioned above has been adopted by URA since the inception of BCS. The URA did not make any adjustment to the system before the applications of each round of the Demand-led Scheme are assessed for reasons of consistency and ease of comparison.
(5) In view of the fact that the financial commitment of the Demand-led Scheme and the sites covered by the applications are becoming larger and larger, and that the factors that need to be considered are getting increasingly complex, the URA considers it necessary to conduct a comprehensive review of the Scheme. In late April this year, the URA has set up an ad hoc committee to oversee the review of the Demand-led Scheme, including an assessment of URA's manpower and financial resources.
(6) The ad hoc committee set up in April to oversee the review of the Demand-led Scheme will start work in May. It will discuss the direction, scope, content (including the implementation framework of the Scheme) as well as the timetable of review.
The URA plans to consult its seven District Advisory Committees (DACs) (the seven DACs are in the Central and Western, Wan Chai, Yau Tsim Mong, Sham Shui Po, Kowloon City, Kwun Tong and Tsuen Wan Districts respectively), the membership of which comprises District Councillors, local dignitaries and professional experts. The URA also plans to meet the Panel on Development of 10950 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
the Legislative Council later this year to listen to members' views on the review.
(7) The ad hoc committee set up by URA will oversee the review of the Demand-led Scheme. One of its major tasks is to review the implementation framework of the Scheme, including whether it is necessary, and if so, how, to refine it.
The URA will continue to discharge its responsibility for urban renewal in Hong Kong in accordance with the 2011 URS. Besides carrying on with its role as "implementer" in redevelopment projects, the URA will also provide assistance to owners through facilitation service to help them assemble titles for joint sale.
Demand for and Supply of Educational Psychologists
10. MR IP KIN-YUEN (in Chinese): President, some members of the education sector have pointed out that educational psychologists (EPs) play an important role in integrated education but there has been a shortfall of EPs over the years. As the ratio of EPs to students is very low, students with special educational needs (SEN students) attending mainstream schools are often unable to receive appropriate support. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether the authorities have set any standard or target on the number of EPs that mainstream schools providing integrated education should have; if they have, of such a standard or target; if not, the reasons for that;
(2) of the respective numbers of primary and secondary schools currently provided with the School-based Educational Psychology Service (SBEPS) Grant by the Education Bureau;
(3) of the respective total numbers of EPs currently employed by the Education Bureau and school sponsoring bodies (SSB) to provide SBEPS to primary and secondary schools, as well as their ratios to schools and to students; of the average annual number of days of visits to schools by such EPs;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10951
(4) of the average time taken by school-based EPs and the Educational Psychology Service Section of the Education Bureau to conduct an assessment for SEN students (from receipt of a referral to completion of the assessment report);
(5) of the numbers of places and graduates of educational psychology programmes in Hong Kong in each of the past five years;
(6) of the current number of EP supervisors (supervisors) and the average number of EPs supervised by each supervisor; of the specific duties and qualification requirements for supervisors, and the measures put in place by the authorities to monitor their work;
(7) of the average annual expenditure per school on the services of supervisors and the percentage of such expenditure in the SBEPS Grant received per school; and
(8) of the improvement measures put in place by the authorities to address the problems of (i) insufficient number of EPs, (ii) excessively short stationing time of EPs in schools and (iii) unduly long waiting time for EPs' services and time taken by them for the relevant assessments?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Chinese): President,
(1) to (4)
To support public sector ordinary schools in implementing integrated education to cater for students with special educational needs (SEN), the Education Bureau has been providing schools with additional resources, teacher training and professional support, including the SBEPS. The SBEPS is a comprehensive and integrated educational psychology service encompassing remedial, preventive and developmental work that aims at enhancing schools' capacity to cater for students with SEN. Under the SBEPS, each EP serves six to 10 schools, including both primary and secondary schools, providing support at the school system, teacher and student levels. Apart from handling individual student cases, EPs also render consultation and professional support services to teachers and parents, and offer 10952 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
professional advice on the school policies and practices for supporting students with SEN. EPs should visit their schools served regularly throughout the school year, and the number of such visits should not be less than 140 days per school year.
In the 2013-2014 school year, 579 public sector primary and secondary schools are receiving the SBEPS, covering about 70% of all public sector schools. For 223 primary schools and 228 secondary schools, the service is provided by selected SSB awarded with EP posts. Apart from covering the remuneration of EPs, the Education Bureau also provides the schools concerned with an SBEPS Grant on a recurrent basis for meeting the operating expenses for implementing the service, including hiring of professional supervision (see below for details), administrative support and general expenses (such as purchase of test materials and printing of training notes and resources).
It is our target to extend the SBEPS progressively to cover all public sector primary and secondary schools by the 2016-2017 school year. To achieve the target, the Education Bureau has been creating EP posts in both the Bureau and SSBs since the 2008-2009 school year. Currently, there are a total of 80 EPs providing SBEPS, of which 60 are employed by SSBs and 20 by the Education Bureau. It is expected that 134 EPs will be in service when the SBEPS is fully implemented.
As the number of assessment cases and the level and intensity of EP support required vary across schools, the Education Bureau will consider different factors when assigning schools to EPs or SSBs, such as the schools' student enrolment and their number of students with SEN, as a measure to help balance the workload of individual EPs.
The Education Bureau has required EPs under the SBEPS to arrange with the schools concerned student assessment as soon as possible upon receipt of referrals. Normally the assessment would be completed within six months. For every referral given formal assessment, EPs will prepare, normally within three months, an EP report for the schools concerned for arrangement of appropriate support service.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10953
(5) to (8)
To tie in with the expansion of the SBEPS, the Education Bureau has advised the University Grants Committee to increase the provision of EP training places. With effect from the 2010-2011 academic year, there are 15 or 25 graduates every year. The number of intakes and graduates of the two-year full-time EP programmes (professional training) offered by two local universities for the past five years is set out below:
2009- 2010- 2011- 2012- 2013- Academic Year 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 Number of intakes 15 24 14 24 15 Number of graduates 20 15 24 14 #
Note:
# Figure not yet available
At present, there are eight SSBs awarded with EP posts, and they have all hired EP supervisors to facilitate and advance the development of the SBEPS, and to provide regular professional supervision and support for their EPs. The number of EPs supervised by each EP supervisor will depend on the number of EPs employed by the respective SSB. As EP supervisors are engaged through hire of service, they can serve more than one SSB at the same time. Hence, providing the number of EP supervisor cannot reflect the actual service provided.
Expenditure on EP professional supervision service accounts for about 60% of a school's SBEPS Grant. An EP supervisor is required to provide each EP with individual and group supervision amounting to about 130 hours per school year. As required by the Education Bureau, an EP supervisor should be an experienced EP generally with six years of EP experience or more. SSBs should hold regular review and evaluation meetings with EP supervisors to safeguard the professional standard of the SBEPS. The Education Bureau also holds regular EP network and EP supervisor meetings annually to ensure consistency in professional support and practices.
10954 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
To keep the SBEPS under ongoing review and enhancement, the Education Bureau has been carrying out monitoring and quality assurance through regular school visits and review meetings with EPs and SSBs. To ensure service quality, we also scrutinize the work plans and progress reports submitted by EPs, and conduct questionnaire surveys to schools receiving SBEPS to gauge feedback from stakeholders. Statistics for the 2012-2013 school year show that about 80% of the cases referred to EPs were assessed within two months and about 90% within five months. The remaining cases with a longer waiting time for assessment were due to some specific circumstances, such as cases whose parents requested to defer the assessment and cases in which the assessment had to be held up pending the students' medical treatment.
Contribution of Tourism Industry to Economy of Hong Kong
11. MS CYD HO (in Chinese): President, regarding the contribution of the tourism industry to the economy of Hong Kong, will the Government inform this Council of (i) the value added, (ii) the percentage of the value added in the Gross Domestic Product, (iii) the number of employees, and (iv) the percentage of the number of employees in the total employment, in respect of inbound and outbound tourism in 2012 and 2013 and the projections for 2014 and 2017 (set out by tourism-related industry in tables of the same format as the table below)?
2014 2017 2012 2013 (projection) (projection) (a) Inbound tourism Retail trade Accommodation services Food and beverage services Cross-boundary passenger transport services Others (b) Outbound tourism Travel agency, reservation service and related activities Cross-boundary passenger transport services
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10955
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, according to the information provided by the Census and Statistics Department, the value added of inbound and outbound tourism, its percentage share in our Gross Domestic Product (GDP), the number of employees for inbound and outbound tourism and its percentage share in Hong Kong's total employment in 2012 are tabulated below.
Percentage Number of share of the Percentage employees number of share of Value added for inbound employees in value added ($) and Hong in GDP outbound Kong's total (%) tourism employment (%) (a) Inbound tourism Retail trade 26.4 billion 1.3% 100 200 2.7% Accommodation 25.0 billion 1.2% 39 400 1.1% services Food and beverage 9.1 billion 0.5% 45 900 1.3% services Cross-boundary passenger transport 10.0 billion 0.5% 13 600 0.4% services Others(1) 8.6 billion 0.4% 19 700 0.5% (b) Outbound tourism Travel agency, reservation services and 6.0 billion 0.3% 19 800 0.5% related activities Cross-boundary passenger transport 9.5 billion 0.5% 12 200 0.3% services
Note:
(1) "Others" include cultural and amusement services industry, travel agency, reservation service and related activities industry, as well as convention and trade show organizing services industry.
The Government will release the corresponding figures of 2013 in early 2015, but does not have the forecasts for 2014 and 2017.
10956 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
District Administration Scheme Implemented by Home Affairs Department
12. MR DENNIS KWOK (in Chinese): President, according to the report made by the Director of the Home Affairs Department (HAD) as the Controlling Officer of Head 63, staff members of HAD paid a total of 41 483 visits and 41 286 visits to buildings with owners' corporations (OCs)/mutual aid committees/owners' committees/residents' organizations (collectively referred to as "local organizations") as well as 7 551 visits and 7 830 visits to buildings without any form of management in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 respectively, in order to implement the District Administration Scheme. Yet, in reply to a question raised by me in examining the Estimates of Expenditure 2014-2015, the Director of HAD indicated that the authorities had not maintained a list of buildings visited, and did not give replies on the number of staff members for each visit and the average time spent. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether staff members of HAD are required, after paying each visit to a local organization for implementing the District Administration Scheme, to record and report to their superiors on the content, effectiveness or any follow-up action of the visit; if they are not required to do so, how HAD monitors its staff in performing such duties, and how it gets to know the problems faced by local organizations (such as building management problems) and assists them in solving such problems;
(2) given that the representatives of some OCs have relayed to me that most staff members of HAD lack expertise in building management and often fail to effectively assist OCs in dealing with building management matters, how HAD assesses the effectiveness of the support services provided by its officers to OCs; and
(3) of the average number of staff members of HAD designated to handle requests for assistance concerning building management in each of the past five years; whether it has assessed the adequacy of resources allocated in this regard?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, in respect of management of private buildings, the Government's policy is to assist property LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10957 owners to discharge their building management responsibilities through multi-pronged measures, including the provision of a legal framework and appropriate support services. The Building Management Ordinance (BMO) provides a legal framework for building management, formation and operation of OCs and other related matters. The BMO empowers the OCs, which is an independent body corporates, to act on behalf of the owners to handle matters relating to building management, and at the same time, empowers owners to monitor the operation of the OC and its management committee. Owners and residents may also establish other forms of organizations, such as owners' committees and mutual aid committees, to assist in performing building management duties. In addition, the HAD has set up in all its 18 District Offices (DOs) the District Building Management Liaison Teams (DBMLTs), headed by experienced Liaison Officers (LOs), to assist owners and OCs by offering them advice and support for effective building management.
My reply to the three parts of the question is as follows:
(1) Currently, there are about 40 000 private buildings in Hong Kong. The major duties of DBMLTs include paying visits to these buildings to better understand the needs of the owners and OCs/residents' organizations and provide them with necessary support services. It is DBMLTs' aim to visit each and every OC/private building at least once a year. If and when necessary, or at the request of the owners and OCs, DMBLTs will increase the number of visits to individual buildings.
After visiting the buildings, OCs or residents' organizations, staff of the DBMLTs will record in designated proforma the details of visits, including the date, time, names of the persons/organizations/buildings visited, nature of the visits, condition of the common parts of the buildings, matters of discussion and follow-up actions, and so on, so as to report to the officers-in-charge of the DOs concerned about the visits and the follow-up actions. DBMLTs will also inform the persons/organizations that they have visited of the latest position/results of the follow-up actions being taken and, where necessary, provide them with further support and assistance.
10958 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
As mentioned in our reply given at the special meeting of the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council, the number of staff paying visits to buildings and the duration of building visits vary, subject to the nature and purposes of the visits. As there are tens of thousands of buildings involved, we do not keep separate statistics of the number of staff and the average time spent for each visit.
(2) Building management involves a wide range of issues and is increasingly complicated. DBMLTs endeavours to offer advice and support to OCs and owners with a view to assisting them in handling matters related to building management. For instance, they attend OCs' meetings upon invitation and answering enquiries on building management; advise on the procedures for convening meetings, procurement, maintenance and financial management under the BMO, and provide precedent cases for their reference.
DBMLTs will, as and when necessary, advise owners and OCs to consult professionals, or refer them to the Property Management Advisory Centres of the Hong Kong Housing Society to make appointments for free professional advice.
Should a dispute arise between OCs and owners over building management, DBMLTs will strive to encourage and help both parties to resolve the dispute through enhancement of communication or mediation services. If the dispute persists, DBMLTs will refer them to the professionals of the Panel of Advisors on Building Management Disputes specifically set up by the HAD. The Panel, comprising professionals from different fields, provides impartial and authoritative professional advice to owners or OCs to assist them to make a settlement. In case the dispute remains unresolved, DBMLTs will advise the owners or OCs to seek independent legal advice and consider referring the dispute to the Lands Tribunal for determination under the BMO.
To enhance the professional knowledge of members of DBMLTs in building management, the HAD, in collaboration with tertiary institutions, regularly organizes training courses to understand management of multi-storey buildings from a legal perspective and arranges thematic seminars and workshops to study the practical LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10959
issues and precedent cases in connection with building management. In addition to on-the-job training, the HAD earmarks funds every year to sponsor LOs to take building management courses offered by tertiary institutions for further enhancement of their professional knowledge so that they can offer advice and support to owners and OCs in a more effective manner.
(3) The HAD reviews from time to time the establishment and scope of service in the area of building management having regard to actual circumstances and needs. At present, of some 470 LOs in the HAD, about one fourth (that is, around 120) are deployed for building management duties. In the past five years, there had been an increase of about 9% in the number of LOs responsible for building management.
Apart from deployment of additional manpower for building management duties, HAD has in recent years, through re-prioritization and enhanced work arrangements, proactively introduced various targeted measures and schemes, for instance the Building Management Professional Advisory Service Scheme, recruitment of Resident Liaison Ambassadors in "three nil" buildings, provision of structured training for owners engaged in OC responsibilities, and the setting up of the Panel of Advisors on Building Management Disputes, to provide more effective assistance to owners for proper building management. These help to focus resources and allow LOs to spend more time to deal with complicated building management cases.
Admission of Local and Non-local Students to Postgraduate Programmes
13. DR HELENA WONG (in Chinese): President, some members of the education sector have pointed out that among the students admitted to some research postgraduate (RPg) programmes run by the University Grants Committee-funded tertiary institutions (funded institutions) in recent years, 70% to 80% of them were/are non-local students, which highlights the imbalance in the admission of local and non-local students. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether it knows the following in respect of the academic years between 2011-2012 and 2013-2014:
10960 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
(1) the respective annual numbers of (i) applicants for, and (ii) those of them admitted to, subsidized Master of Philosophy (MPhil) and Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) programmes run by each funded institution, with a breakdown by the places of domicile (that is, Hong Kong, Mainland China and overseas countries) of the applicants; and
(2) the respective numbers of local students graduated with first-class honours, second-class (upper division) honours or second-class (lower division) honours or holding other academic qualifications who (i) applied for, (ii) were admitted to, and (iii) were rejected by, the programmes mentioned in part (1) each year, and set out a breakdown, by institution and academic discipline, in tables of the same format as the table below?
Academic year: Study level: Subsidized MPhil/Subsidized PhD Institution Academic discipline (i) (ii) (iii) Applicants who graduated with first-class honours:
Applicants who graduated with second-class (upper division) honours:
Applicants who graduated with second-class (lower division) honours:
Applicants with other academic qualifications:
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Chinese): President, research is crucial to higher education development and enhancing the competitiveness of an economy. With a view to boosting the research capability in Hong Kong through attracting high quality talents from around the world, the Government accepted and the Panel on Education of the Legislative Council was briefed on the University Grants Committee (UGC)'s recommendation in 2002 that the quota for non-local RPg students for the UGC-funded institutions should be removed. The UGC's recommendation, which was formulated after extensive consultation LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10961 with the institutions, academics and the community at large, is conducive to attracting the best talents worldwide to enhance the quality of research in Hong Kong, thereby ensuring that public money is spent on the most worthy causes, and is in line with international practice. In contrast, imposing restrictions on the number of non-local students for the RPg programmes would only pose hindrance to the pursuit of academic excellence by local higher education sector and lead to a loss of high quality research talents and projects to other places. It should be noted that top-notch universities worldwide also have a relatively high proportion of non-local postgraduate students, for example, 62% for the University of Oxford.
Response to the specific questions is set out below:
(1) In the 2012-2013 academic year, the number of local applications for UGC-funded RPg (including MPhil and PhD) programmes was 2 040, which was submitted by an estimated number of around 1 020 local applicants; 531 of these local applicants were eventually admitted, which accounted for 52.1% of the estimated number of local applicants or 26.0% of the number of local applications. As regards the remaining 47.9% of local applicants, they included those who eventually declined admission offers from UGC-funded institutions in order to pursue other opportunities, as well as those who were not given offers having regard to their academic credentials. In contrast, the number of applications for UGC-funded RPg programmes by non-local students was 18 600 in the 2012-2013 academic year. The number of non-local intakes in the same year was 1 876, accounting for 10.1% of the non-local applications.
Details of the 2010-2011 to 2012-2013 academic years, including the number of applications and intakes of UGC-funded MPhil and PhD programmes, by institution and place of origin, are set out at Annex. Admission to RPg programmes is conducted throughout the year and still ongoing for the 2013-2014 academic year.
(2) Applicants for admission to RPg programmes come from diverse backgrounds and may not be applying on the strength of a Bachelor's degree alone. For admission to an MPhil programme, an applicant 10962 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
is normally required to have obtained a Bachelor's degree, with honours not lower than Second Class, or equivalent, from a recognized institution. For PhD admission, the applicant may be a current MPhil student applying for transfer to PhD candidature, a PhD candidate in another recognized institution applying for transfer, or a holder of a relevant Master's degree from a recognized institution. Some UGC-funded institutions also consider direct PhD admission of an applicant with a Bachelor's degree with proven outstanding academic performance (for example, First Class Honours). In addition, certain RPg programmes have more specific requirements. Qualifying examinations to test the applicants' abilities to follow the prescribed courses and/or interviews may be conducted. For research students to benefit under the Hong Kong PhD Fellowship Scheme, applicants should demonstrate outstanding qualities of academic performance, research ability/potential, communication and interpersonal skills, and leadership abilities.
The UGC does not collect information from institutions on the qualifications of applicants for UGC-funded RPg programmes. It should be reckoned there are diversified choices of further studies and employment available for local students after graduation from undergraduate programmes, for example, full-time employment, full-time/part-time taught postgraduate programmes, and so on. The decision of local students on whether and where to pursue postgraduate studies, especially RPg studies, is often a personal choice affected by various factors, such as prevailing employment opportunities in the market, students' career orientation and prospect in the teaching/research fields, rather than the terms provided to students for their graduate studies. Furthermore, for local students who choose to pursue RPg studies, quite a number of them would do so at overseas universities, so that they can conduct research under a different culture and environment. Moreover, UGC-funded institutions currently have yet to fully utilize their over-enrolment capacity, meaning that if outstanding local students apply to study RPg programmes, UGC-funded institutions will still have spare capacity to consider their admission on a merit basis.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10963
Annex
10964 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Review of Long-term and Indeterminate Sentences of Prisoners
14. DR KENNETH CHAN (in Chinese): President, the Long-term Prison Sentences Review Ordinance (Cap. 524) (the Ordinance) provides that the Commissioner of Correctional Services must refer the long-term and indeterminate sentences of prisoners to the Long-term Prison Sentences Review Board (the Review Board) for review according to the specified schedules, and the prisoners concerned are not required to lodge an application by themselves. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council of the following in each year between January 2004 and March 2014: (i) the total number of cases reviewed by the Review Board, (ii) the number of cases of indeterminate sentences reviewed by the Review Board, (iii) the number of cases for which remission of determinate sentences was recommended by the Review Board and approved by the Chief Executive, (iv) the number of cases for which the Review Board recommended to Chief Executive the substitution of indeterminate sentences by determinate ones, (v) the number of cases for which recommendation for substitution of indeterminate sentences by determinate ones was made by the Review Board and approved by Chief Executive, (vi) the number of cases in which the Review Board informed prisoners serving indeterminate sentences that it would recommend to Chief Executive some years later the substitution of their indeterminate sentences by determinate ones, and (vii) the number of cases in respect of which sentence review hearings were held by the Review Board and attended by the prisoners in person or their representatives (set out in table form)?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, our reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:
The Long-term Prison Sentences Review Board is an independent statutory body established pursuant to the Long-term Prison Sentences Review Ordinance (Cap. 524). Under the Ordinance, the President and Deputy President of the Review Board must be judges or former judges of the Court of First Instance. There are at present nine non-official members with experience in various disciplines such as psychiatry, psychology, social work, law, education, commerce and industry, and rehabilitation of offenders. The Review Board's principal function is to review the indeterminate and long-term prison sentences of prisoners and the sentences of juvenile prisoners, and to recommend to the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10965
Chief Executive that such indeterminate sentences be substituted by determinate ones or determinate sentences be remitted, if appropriate.
In general, prisoners serving long-term or indeterminate sentences are those who have committed more serious offences. The Review Board shall review each case with due care and consider all relevant factors, including the nature of the offence, length of the sentence already served by the prisoner, rehabilitation of the prisoner, and the impact on public safety caused by the prisoner, and so on. Only when sufficient justifications have been found after a thorough consideration of all relevant factors for each individual case will the Review Board recommend to Chief Executive that an indeterminate sentence be substituted by a determinate one, or that a determinate sentence be remitted.
Statistics on cases reviewed by the Review Board since 2004 are at Annex.
Annex
Statistics on Cases Reviewed by the Review Board from January 2004 to March 2014
(iii) (iv) and (v) (i) and (ii) Number of cases for Number of cases for Number of cases which remission of which the Review Board reviewed (number of determinate sentences recommended to Chief Year cases of was recommended by the Executive the indeterminate Review Board and substitution of sentences therein) approved by the Chief indeterminate sentences Executive by determinate onesNote 2004 504(136) 0 12 2005 508(119) 0 5 2006 512(125) 0 9 2007 449(106) 0 5 2008 420(121) 0 12 2009 389(106) 1 5 2010 398(124) 1 6 2011 428(118) 2 2 2012 459(124) 1 6 10966 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
(iii) (iv) and (v) (i) and (ii) Number of cases for Number of cases for Number of cases which remission of which the Review Board reviewed (number of determinate sentences recommended to Chief Year cases of was recommended by the Executive the indeterminate Review Board and substitution of sentences therein) approved by the Chief indeterminate sentences Executive by determinate onesNote 2013 446(126) 2 13 2014 98(25) 0 1 (As at end of March)
Note:
The above cases in which the Review Board recommended to Chief Executive the substitution of indeterminate sentences by determinate ones were all approved by Chief Executive.
(vi) The Review Board never informs any prisoner that it will recommend to Chief Executive some years later the substitution of indeterminate sentence by a determinate one. As mentioned in the main text of this reply, in deciding whether to make a recommendation to Chief Executive, the Review Board takes into account a series of relevant factors for each individual case, including the nature of the offence, length of the sentence already served by the prisoner, rehabilitation of the prisoner, and the impact on public safety caused by the prisoner, and so on. Therefore, the Review Board cannot ascertain which cases it will make recommendations to Chief Executive some years later.
(vii) In general, some prisoners may make written representations to the Review Board with respect to their cases, or with supporting letters from their families, prison chaplains, religious bodies, voluntary workers, and so on. The Review Board will carefully consider these representations when reviewing the prisoners' sentences. If considered necessary, prisoners may also make applications to the Review Board to attend the review hearings, either personally or by appointed representatives for making oral representations, and so on. The Review Board shall decide whether such an application should be approved in light of the circumstances and requirements of individual cases. None of the cases listed above involves LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10967
the attendance of the prisoner or prisoner's appointed representative attending the review hearing.
MTR Railway Services
15. DR LAM TAI-FAI (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that the occurrence of a number of incidents in relation to the railway services of the MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL) in recent months and its fare increase year after year have aroused public discontent. On 27 April this year, the service of the entire East Rail Line (EAL) was paralysed for over half an hour, followed by another two temporary failures later on the same day, because the signalling system and its backup system malfunctioned concurrently, resulting in the Operations Control Centre at Tsing Yi (OCC) being unable to locate the trains, and therefore the services had to be suspended. Under the "Service Performance Arrangement" implemented after the Government's review of the MTR Fare Adjustment Mechanism in early 2013, the MTRCL must notify the Transport Department (TD) of any MTR service disruption which has lasted for eight minutes or is expected to last for eight minutes or more, and pay a fine for any service disruption of 31 minutes or more according to the length of disruption. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it has looked into the specific causes of the aforesaid incidents; whether it knows if the MTRCL has conducted a review on how to prevent the recurrence of similar incidents; if such a review has been conducted, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(2) as it has been reported that the computer systems of OCC, which is responsible for monitoring and controlling the operation of 10 MTR lines, are outdated, whether it knows if the MTRCL has assessed whether there will be more failures of the computer systems as a result and the consequences thereof; if such an assessment has been made, of the outcome, when the MTRCL will replace the whole system, and the relevant details; if such an assessment has not been made, the reasons for that;
(3) of the cumulative total amount of fines paid by the MTRCL since the implementation of the Service Performance Arrangement; the details 10968 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
of the mechanism under which the authorities monitor the return of the full amount of fines by the MTRCL to passengers;
(4) whether it knows the measures the MTRCL should take, according to the procedures it formulated, in the event of a malfunction of the backup signalling system; of the number of malfunctions of the backup signalling system in the past five years;
(5) whether it has assessed if the MTRCL's recent increase in train frequency has accelerated the ageing of the data transmission components in the signalling system, and therefore caused the aforesaid malfunction of the signalling system; if such an assessment has been made, of the outcome; if not, the reasons for that;
(6) whether it knows if the MTRCL will review the existing procedures for procuring new models of trains and parts, maintenance and quality control; if the MTRCL will do so, when such a review will be conducted, and of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(7) whether it knows the expenditure on maintaining various railway lines in each of the past five years; whether the MTRCL will recruit more maintenance staff; if the MTRCL will do so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(8) whether it will review the existing Fare Adjustment Mechanism to peg the fare adjustment rate with the level of railway services, so as to press the MTRCL to endeavour to improve its services; if it will, when it will do so, and of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(9) whether it will urge the MTRCL to expeditiously implement a system of deducting the remunerations of senior management personnel according to the frequency of railway incidents, with a view to pressing its management personnel to endeavour to improve management and service quality; if it will, when the MTRCL will implement the system, and of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(10) whether it knows the existing division of responsibilities among the members of the Board of the MTRCL;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10969
(11) whether it will require the MTRCL to set up an independent committee to investigate the causes of the series of incidents which occurred recently, and make public the findings of the investigation; and
(12) whether it has assessed the losses caused by frequent occurrence of railway service incidents to the community and economy of Hong Kong, and whether members of the public will have doubts about the safety, reliability and quality of railway services; if such an assessment has been made, of the outcome; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, my reply to Dr LAM Tai-fai's question is as follows:
(1) At 8.09 am on 27 April 2014, a breakdown of the data network transmission at Fo Tan Railway House of the EAL prevented the Operations Control Centre (OCC) from performing its function of centrally monitoring train operations. As a prudent measure, the OCC immediately suspended the train service on the entire EAL and deployed engineering personnel to conduct on-site inspection. Engineering personnel then re-established the data transmission by rebooting the system, with EAL train service resuming normal at 8.45 am. After the incident, the MTRCL installed a data analyser to monitor the original data network transmission. Should there be any instability of the original data network transmission, the problem can be detected and rectified as early as possible.
(2) According to the information provided by the MTRCL, three major systems are involved in the operation of MTR train service. They are (i) signalling system; (ii) monitoring and communications system; and (iii) console of the monitoring system for various railway lines.
Installed along railway tracks and inside the equipment room along the railway lines, the signalling system controls train operations. Its fail-safe design will bring trains to an automatic halt once irregularities are detected, ensuring that trains are kept at a safe 10970 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
distance apart. The Tsing Yi OCC captures the operation status of the signalling system via the data network transmission of the monitoring and communications system.
The monitoring and communications system of various railway lines is installed inside the equipment room along the railway lines; while the console of the monitoring system is installed in the Tsing Yi OCC, where it is responsible for monitoring train operations, as well as communication with train captains or stations, and so on. The OCC also regulates train service as and when necessary. Systems at the OCC are of current proven technology and can fully satisfy the needs for train operations of the whole MTR network. Even in case of system failure, only OCC will be prevented from performing its function of centrally monitoring train operations. Indeed, train operations will remain unaffected. For the EAL incident on 27 April 2014, the OCC has suspended train service as a prudent measure.
The service disruption of EAL on 27 April 2014 was caused by the breakdown of a router of the data network transmission, as part of the EAL monitoring and communications system at the Fo Tan Railway House. The signalling system for the control of safe operations of trains was not affected. The Transport and Housing Bureau has already urged the MTRCL to enhance its regular inspections on all concerned systems.
(3) Since the introduction of the "Service Performance Arrangement" last year, the MTRCL has been fined a total of $40.5 million for service disruptions of 31 minutes or above in 2012 and 2013. The proceeds are returned to passengers through the "10% Same Day Second Trip Discount" scheme. The accumulated fine of $13 million due to the incidents in 2012 has been returned to passengers from July 2013 onwards, and the $27.5 million accumulated due to the incidents in 2013 will be returned to passengers starting from June 2014.
To ensure that the arrangement is in order, the MTRCL is required to submit annually to the Government a report prepared by a qualified auditor to verify the number of service disruptions in the previous LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10971
year and the amount of fine incurred, as well as whether the proceeds have been returned in full to passengers through the "10% Same Day Second Trip Discount" scheme.
(4) According to the procedures laid down by the MTRCL, its staff will manually activate the backup system if the data network transmission fails to activate automatically. On 27 April 2014, train operations resumed normal after staff's manual activation of the backup system. According to the MTRCL, there was no other failure of automatic activation of the backup system in the past five years other than the abovementioned incident.
(5) The additional data transmission arising from the recent enhancement in train frequency still does not exceed the designed capacity of the data network transmission. According to the MTRCL, with routine repair/maintenance and component replacement, the data network transmission has shown no sign of ageing.
(6) and (11)
The MTRCL all along adopts rigorous quality management procedures for testing newly purchased trains to validate their compliance with performance standards. Such tests include the basic quality checks, dimensional checks, functional tests (for example, tests on braking and traction systems, train door operations, communications function, train control function and watertightness, and so on), and running operational tests to confirm that the trains are manufactured according to the design and relevant standards. All new trains will be put into service only after they have passed all the required safety and service performance tests and received approval from the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department (EMSD) and TD.
The MTRCL staff are deployed to oversee the key production processes in the factories of system suppliers and manufacturers. Suppliers are required to submit test results to the MTRCL, and the MTRCL will attend and witness functional tests of different systems and components, such as the traction system, train doors, braking system, pantographs and trainborne signalling system, and so on. The MTRCL also appoints international experts as independent 10972 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
safety auditors to verify the designs and testing processes of safety-related equipment and systems, including train doors, traction system, couplers, trainborne signalling system, interface of signalling system, wheels and axles, and so on. This is to ensure that the procedures comply with international safety specifications.
Upon arrival in Hong Kong, new trains are subject to the static and dynamic tests to validate that their operation integrates with the existing infrastructure and railway system.
The various tests as set out above are conducted by the MTRCL on newly purchased trains to identify any irregularities in the systems for immediate rectification, so as to ensure operational safety in the future. The EMSD will also pay close attention and participate timely in on-site tests conducted in Hong Kong. New trains are put into service only if their safe operation is confirmed after stringent validation.
In response to the several serious service disruptions related to overhead lines late last year and early this year, the MTRCL has engaged an independent overseas expert to conduct a comprehensive review on the MTR overhead line system, covering technical specifications, procurement, quality control, installation and repair/maintenance. The independent overseas expert's review is in good progress, pending for completion within August as expected. In parallel, the EMSD also participates in the MTRCL's tests of the insulators and verifies the findings. An independent expert has also been engaged by the EMSD to further evaluate the result of the review by the MTRCL's independent overseas expert. Upon the completion of the two expert reports, the Government will, having regard to the findings, decide whether there is a need to expand the scope of the review to cover other areas of the MTR network.
(7) To maintain high quality railway service and improve facility performance, investment is made each year in the repair, maintenance and upgrade of railway assets. In the past few years, the investment increased from about $4.3 billion in 2009 to about $5.6 billion in 2013. Additional repair/maintenance staff are recruited from time to time to cater for operational needs, with number of staff concerned increasing from around 3 700 in 2009 to around 4 000 in 2013. As the resources for asset repair, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10973
maintenance and upgrade are shared among various railway lines, breakdown on investment for individual railway lines is not available.
(8) The Fare Adjustment Mechanism of the MTRCL is subject to review once every five years. The last review was due in 2013 and it was completed in April that year. As a result, the "Service Performance Arrangement" has been introduced. Under the arrangement, a fine will be imposed on the MTRCL for service disruptions of 31 minutes or above caused by equipment failure or human factors. Proceeds are put into a fare concession account and returned to passengers through the "10% Same Day Second Trip Discount" scheme the following year. "Exemption Events" (that is, events outside the MTRCL's control, such as those caused by passengers' behaviours and bad weather) are excluded under the arrangement.
The fines imposed for service delay under the "Service Performance Arrangement" are set out below:
Fine for each incident Train service disruptions (subject to a maximum of $15 million per incident) Thirty-one minutes or above but less $1 million than or equal to one hour More than one hour but less than or $2 million equal to two hours More than two hours but less than or $3 million equal to three hours More than three hours but less than or $5 million equal to four hours Each additional hour (or part thereof) $2.5 million exceeding four hours
(9) As regards whether the remuneration of the MTRCL's senior management should be reduced in the event of serious service disruptions, the Government has reflected the concerns and views to the Board of the MTRCL and requested the Corporation to carefully consider the matter. The Board of the MTRCL has followed up and decided to include the occurrence of serious service disruptions as a consideration in the payment of performance-based remuneration to the Corporation's senior management staff in future.
10974 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
(10) Current division of responsibilities among members of the Board of the MTRCL is at Annex. This information can be downloaded from the website of the MTRCL.
(12) The operation of a safe, reliable and efficient railway service is paramount to the public transport system in Hong Kong. With respect to train service reliability, the number of incidents of eight minutes or above caused by equipment failure or human factors was 143 in 2013, the lowest since the rail merger in December 2007. The number of incidents in the first quarter of this year was 31, lower than that over the same period of last year (that is, 34). Despite not showing any downward trend in the safety and reliability of the MTR train service in accordance with the overall statistics, the Government considers that, under the service-oriented premise, immediate and in-depth investigation into every train service incident must be carried out by the MTRCL, followed by improvement measures to prevent future recurrence.
In case of railway incidents, the MTRCL will do its utmost to resume normal train service as quickly as possible to minimize the inconvenience to passengers. Before that, the MTRCL will provide passengers with the necessary information and contingent assistance to facilitate them to continue their journeys. The MTRCL will continue to review such arrangement from time to time, and make efforts in reducing inconvenience to passengers during incidents to the minimum.
The EMSD and TD have all along maintained close liaison with the MTRCL, and together will conduct follow-up reviews as well as implement improvement measures after incidents to prevent future recurrence. As mentioned in our reply to parts (6) and (11) above, the Government will, having regard to the findings of the comprehensive review on the MTR overhead line system by the independent overseas expert engaged by the MTRCL and the report outcome of the further review conducted by another independent expert engaged by the EMSD, decide whether there is a need to expand the scope of the review to cover other areas of the MTR network.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10975
Annex
10976 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Revitalization of Derelict Mines/Mine Caves for Tourism Purpose
16. MR TANG KA-PIU (in Chinese): President, it is learnt that currently some derelict mines/mine caves in Hong Kong (for example, the Silver Mine Cave in Mui Wo and the Ma On Shan Iron Mine) have attracted quite a number of visitors to explore them. Quite a number of people have proposed that the authorities should make reference to the practices in foreign countries and revitalize derelict mines/mine caves to become characteristic tourist attractions. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the following information concerning each of the existing derelict mines/mine caves in Hong Kong: the name and location, site area, type(s) of minerals extracted, organization(s) previously engaged in the mining operations, as well as when the operations started and ended; if such information is not available, of the reasons for that;
(2) whether it knows which organizations/persons in Hong Kong have conducted feasibility studies on the revitalization of derelict mines/mine caves, and in respect of each of the mines/mine caves concerned, set out its name and location, the year in which the relevant study commenced and the completion date of the study, the organization/person that conducted the study, and whether the authorities took any follow-up action on the outcome of the study and the details;
(3) whether the Antiquities Advisory Board (AAB) has conducted any historic building assessment on the derelict mines/mine caves on its own initiative or upon request; if so, of the names of the mines/mine caves concerned, the years in which the relevant assessments were conducted and the outcome; if the Board has not conducted any assessment on derelict mines/mine caves on its own initiative, the reasons for that; whether the Board has plans to conduct historic building assessments on all derelict mines/mine caves; if so, of its work schedule; if not, the reasons for that;
(4) whether the authorities have received any proposal on revitalization of derelict mines/mine caves to become tourist attractions; if so, of the organizations/persons putting forward such proposals, the years LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10977
in which the proposals were made, and the reasons for the authorities' acceptance/rejection of the relevant proposals; and
(5) whether the authorities will conduct a feasibility study on the revitalization of derelict mines/mine caves to become tourist attractions so as to make Hong Kong's tourist attractions more diversified, thereby attracting different types of tourists to visit Hong Kong; if so, of the government departments and relevant organizations responsible for the task; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, some mining activities were carried out in Hong Kong in the past century. The better known mines included Ma On Shan Iron Mines and Silver Mine Cave in Mui Wo. But the mining industry gradually declined after the 1970s, leaving behind derelict mines and mine caves and visitors are attracted to some of them. In the course of planning the development of the districts where these derelict mines/mine caves are located, the Planning Department (PlanD) will examine the feasibility of revitalizing them.
My reply to the five parts of Mr TANG's question is as follows:
(1) According to records, mining activities were carried out and left behind derelict mines/mine caves in the following locations in Hong Kong:
Major Mine Start Year of End Year of Location Mining Organizations(1) Products Operation Operation Lin Fa Wolframite No information No No Shan information information Mui Wo Galena, No information Latter half of No Pyrite the 19th information century Ma On Magnetite Hong Kong Iron Mining Co. 1906 1976 Shan New Territories Mining Co. Mutual Trust Co. Ltd Nittetsu Mining Co. of Japan 10978 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Major Mine Start Year of End Year of Location Mining Organizations(1) Products Operation Operation Lin Ma Galena Hong Kong Mines Ltd 1915 1958 Hang Nielson and Co. Tonley and Co. Needle Wolframite Marsman Hong Kong China 1938 1967 Hill Ltd. Taiwan Development Co. Hoong Foo Mining Co. Yan Hing Mining Co. Ltd Brothers Graphite Tin Bo Mining Development 1952 1971 Islands Corp. Ng Fuk Black Lead Mining Co. Sha Lo Wolframite No information 1954 1961 Wan
Notes:
There is no information on the site area of the abovementioned mines/mine caves in the current records.
(1) No Chinese names of these mining organizations are available in the current records.
(2) In the consultation exercise for the Land Use Concept Plans for Mui Wo Facelift conducted by the PlanD in 2007, the Mui Wo residents considered that it would be worthwhile to examine the feasibility of re-opening the Silver Mine Cave in Mui Wo. The Civil Engineering and Development Department (CEDD) commissioned a consultancy study in 2010 to investigate the internal conditions of the mine caves as well as the technical issues involved and improvement measures needed if the mine caves were to open for public visits. The study completed in March 2012 and concluded that it was not desirable to open the upper cave for public visits in view of its geological conditions, natural habitats and environment, and the problems related to fire safety and confined space. As for the lower cave, it has become an important bat habitat. Visitors entering the cave would not only interfere with the lives of bats, the viruses and bacteria carried by the bats may also endanger human health. As such, the study concluded that it was also not desirable to open the lower cave for public visits. However, the CEDD LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10979
planned to carry out beautification works and upgrade the amenities outside the upper cave, including reconstructing the sitting-out area, pavilion, seating and information panel of the Silver Mine Cave, with a view to converting the mine cave into a scenic spot.
Besides, the PlanD received written submissions from the Heung Yee Kuk New Territories and Lin Ma Hang Village Office proposing to develop the derelict Lin Ma Hang Lead Mines into a tourist attraction during its study on the Land Use Planning for the Closed Area in 2007. After studying the proposal, the related departments noted that there were problems with the mine structure and a number of locations in the cave with potential hazards. Substantial geotechnical investigation and stabilization works would be required to make it safe if the mine cave was to open to the public as a tourist attraction. But such works would entail destruction of the original landscape of the mine cave which is a Site of Special Scientific Interest. Therefore, the Administration considered that it was not desirable to develop the Lin Ma Hang Lead Mines into a tourist attraction.
As for the Ma On Shan Iron Mines, a working group was set up by Sha Tin District Council in 2000 to explore the possibility of revitalizing and developing it into a theme park of mine. The working group comprised representatives from the government departments including the Tourism Commission, the CEDD, the Leisure and Cultural Services Department and the PlanD. Though the conceptual theme park of mine did not come to fruition, the Ma On Shan Iron Mines was featured in a book on Ma On Shan published by the Sha Tin District Council afterwards.
(3) The AAB announced in March 2009 the assessment results on the heritage value and proposed gradings of 1 444 historic buildings (most of which were built before 1950). During the four-month public consultation exercise, submissions were received from the public proposing new items for assessment and possible grading. Though no mine/mine cave was included in the list of the 1 444 historic buildings, the AAB received proposals for grading the buildings in Ma On Shan Iron Mines, both during the public consultation exercise and afterwards. In the light of these proposals, the Antiquities and Monuments Office added four items 10980 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
related to the Iron Mines to the list of new items for consideration by the AAB. They include the exterior walls of Mines 110ML and 240ML in Ma On Shan, Sha Tin; Mineral Preparation Plant; and the Yan Kwong Lutheran Church and St Joseph's Church at Ma On Shan Tsuen.
At its meeting on 20 February 2013, the AAB decided to conduct assessments for the new items and the outstanding buildings pending grading assessment in the list of 1 444 buildings at the same time. The studies on the heritage value of the above four items related to the Ma On Shan Iron Mines have been completed. Subject to the assessment by the Historic Buildings Assessment Panel, the assessment results and proposed gradings of these new items will be submitted to the AAB for consideration. As per the usual procedures, the AAB will conduct a one-month public consultation on the proposed gradings after its meeting prior to confirming the gradings of these new items.
(4) As mentioned in part (2), the Mui Wo residents proposed to the PlanD to consider re-opening the Silver Mine Cave as a tourist attraction in 2007. But the CEDD concluded after a study that it was not desirable to open the mine caves for public visits. Instead, it would carry out beautification works and upgrade the amenities outside the upper cave with a view to converting the cave into a scenic spot.
Besides, the Heung Yee Kuk New Territories and Lin Ma Hang Village Office made submissions to the PlanD in 2007 proposing to develop the derelict Lin Ma Hang Lead Mines into a tourist attraction. But it was concluded after a study that it was not desirable to develop the Lin Ma Hang Lead Mines into a tourist attraction.
(5) The PlanD is responsible for planning the development in different districts. It will examine the feasibility of revitalizing the derelict mines/mine caves into tourist attractions when planning the developments of the districts where these mines/mine caves are located.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10981
BILLS
First Reading of Bills
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Bill: First Reading.
COMPETITION (AMENDMENT) BILL 2014
CLERK (in Cantonese): Competition (Amendment) Bill 2014.
Bill read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.
Second Reading of Bills
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Bill: Second Reading.
COMPETITION (AMENDMENT) BILL 2014
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I move the Second Reading of the Competition (Amendment) Bill 2014 (the Bill). The Bill seeks to confer on the Competition Tribunal (the Tribunal) certain specific powers and to make provisions regarding its operation to ensure its proper functioning.
The Competition Ordinance (the Ordinance), which was enacted in June 2012, provides a legal framework to tackle anti-competitive conduct across different sectors. Since the enactment of the Ordinance, the Administration has been working closely with the Competition Commission (the Commission) and the Judiciary on the full implementation of the Ordinance. One of the major tasks is to prepare for the full operation of the Tribunal, which is a superior court of record established under the Ordinance having primary jurisdiction to hear and adjudicate competition-related cases. The Judiciary is formulating the rules for the operation and proceedings of the Tribunal and making other necessary administrative arrangements.
10982 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
In formulating the rules for the Tribunal, the Government and the Judiciary have identified certain essential amendments to the Ordinance and to other pieces of legislation after careful consideration. These amendments seek to state clearly the powers of the Tribunal and provide a clearer legal basis for the proper functioning of the Tribunal. Therefore, we propose to introduce these amendments to the Bill.
The Bill consists of amendments which can be grouped into three main categories. First, amendments relating to the general powers for the functioning of the Tribunal. Under the Ordinance as it now stands, the Tribunal would generally have the jurisdiction of the Court of First Instance (CFI) to grant remedies and relief, and could exercise the CFI's inherent jurisdiction, insofar as they relate to the practice and procedure of the CFI in exercising its civil jurisdiction. Nevertheless, there are several areas in the Ordinance where it is not entirely clear as to whether the Tribunal would have the specific powers of the CFI to grant remedies and relief in discharging its functions. We therefore propose amending the Ordinance to confer more specific powers on the Tribunal with a view to providing greater clarity and certainty that is required given the particular circumstances. These powers include the power to enforce the orders of the Tribunal, the power to award interest on debts and damages and judgment debts, and so on.
The second category consists of amendments relating to Registrars and other registrar-related positions. The Ordinance currently provides for a framework on the automatic appointment of the Tribunal's Registrar and other registrar-related positions (collectively referred to as "the Tribunal's registrars" hereinafter). The Ordinance nonetheless does not confer powers on the Tribunal's registrars to perform judicial duties. To ease the workload of members of the Tribunal and in line with the arrangements for the High Court, we propose amending the Ordinance to empower the Tribunal's registrars to perform judicial work under the Ordinance similar to that performed by their counterparts in the High Court, and also to afford the Tribunal's registrars the privileges and immunities currently enjoyed by the registrars in the High Court. We also propose amending the Ordinance such that temporary registrars in the High Court would automatically hold the corresponding positions in the Tribunal and be given similar powers and duties and so on of their permanent counterparts in the Tribunal.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10983
The third category consists of consequential amendments to other pieces of legislation, including the High Court Ordinance, the Legal Practitioners Ordinance, the Higher Rights of Audience Rules, the Evidence Ordinance, the Electronic Transactions Ordinance and the Shenzhen Bay Port Hong Kong Port Area Ordinance. These amendments aim to facilitate the future operation of the Tribunal, and to ensure consistency with the arrangements currently applicable to the CFI and other courts or tribunals in general under these Ordinances.
These amendments are essential to the proper functioning of the Tribunal in the future. To ensure the operational readiness of the Tribunal in discharging its functions, it is essential to introduce these amendments before the full implementation of the Ordinance.
The Government and the Judiciary Administration have briefed the Commission on the proposed legislative amendments to the Ordinance, and the Judiciary Administration has also consulted the Hong Kong Bar Association and the Law Society of Hong Kong. They are generally supportive of the proposed legislative amendments. The Government and the Judiciary Administration briefed the Legislative Council Panel on Economic Development on the legislative proposal at the meeting on 16 December 2013. The Panel raised no objection to the proposed legislative amendments.
With these remarks, I implore Members to support the Bill.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the Competition (Amendment) Bill 2014 be read the Second time.
In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the debate is now adjourned and the Bill is referred to the House Committee.
Council went into Committee.
Committee Stage
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The Council went into Committee to continue to examine the Schedule to the Appropriation Bill 2014. Committee will now 10984 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 continue with the second joint debate which covers 20 heads to which amendments have been proposed.
APPROPRIATION BILL 2014
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any Member wish to speak on these amendments?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Good morning, Chairman, I am going to speak on "Head 142 ― Government Secretariat: Offices of the Chief Secretary for Administration and the Financial Secretary". This part is mainly concerned with the Office of the Financial Secretary, involving Amendment Nos 731, 732 and 733, which resolved that head 142 be reduced by $3,630,000 in respect of subhead 000 to deduct an amount approximately equivalent to the estimated expenditure for the annual emolument of the Financial Secretary.
Members may note from the amendments of this session that Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, Mr Albert CHAN and Mr WONG Yuk-man have all proposed to deduct the estimated expenditure for the annual emolument of the Financial Secretary. Furthermore, it is a broad-brush deduction for one year but not six months or three months. Why should the emolument of John TSANG be deducted? I now give a detailed account of this and I certainly support the other three amendments.
Firstly, I will make a preliminary evaluation based on the blog of the Financial Secretary. Members of the public usually evaluate the daily work of the Financial Secretary according to his speeches to the media, his budgets and articles written in his blog. Recently, the article titled "Repent and the shore is at hand" ("回頭是岸") written by the Financial Secretary in his blog has aroused strong repercussions in the community, and attracted extensive coverage by the media and netizens on the so-called "farce" which originally has not drawn much public attention. People expressed online opinions, casting serious doubts on various aspects of the Financial Secretary. Today, I will only focus on a certain part to justify my argument, explaining why the emolument of the Financial Secretary should be deducted.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10985
A netizen wrote, "I sincerely hope that Mr TSANG will repent and the shore is at hand: If your personal conduct is not correct, you may issue orders, but you will not be followed. Being nurtured by the Hong Kong-British administration, you now serve for the Communist Party, a renegade official as known in the past. If you are aware of your own mistakes and make up for a guilty conscience by working hard and not staying quiet for self-protection, you still deserve our sympathy and forgiveness. But if you hold a candle to the devil, you would be the one to be blamed. Please ask yourself: Why are you conferred with the power and awarded the emolument? Are you in a level playing field or have you been recruited by a mediocre head? If Hong Kong does have a genuinely democratic and fair system, do you think your popularity rating justifies your handsome emolument?"
First of all, I will talk about the first area in which the Financial Secretary is derelict of his duty, and that is, he has not done his utmost to deal with what he called the unprecedented "fiscal cliff" in Hong Kong which he considered to be very serious. Let me use a simple example for illustration. What should the person-in-charge of a department do in the face of internal or external disputes, such as disputes between the supervisor and subordinates, disputes among peers of the same level or disputes with another organization? The person-in-charge should do his utmost to settle the disputes. When the boss asked the person-in-charge if the disputes have been settled and what have been done, the latter replied that an article has been written in a column or a blog. It means that when he was asked to settle disputes among colleagues, he wrote on his Facebook, thinking that the issue is being or has been dealt with. May I ask the boss if this is acceptable?
While claiming that this is a serious financial crisis, his action has nonetheless told the truth. What has he done to deal with the issue? Has he met with the Members concerned? According to Mr Albert CHAN, the Financial Secretary always went past him, but has not uttered a word. Is that how he deals with the issue? Is this a dereliction of duty? In the face of a serious crisis, he has spent his effort to write in his blog in exchange for an annual emolument of some $3.6 million. Honourable Members, should his emolument be deducted?
Do you consider that your staff has done his utmost to handle a major internal or external crisis when he has not even met and liaised with the other parties, even though it is purely a window-dressing meeting? He did liaise with 10986 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 the relevant Members last year, but did not bother to do so this year. Does this justify his annual emolument of some $3 million? This is the most basic thing to do, but he has done nothing at all. What is the most important assignment of the Financial Secretary throughout the year? To secure the approval of the annual budget. If the budget is not approved, his work for the entire year will be wasted. Then why didn't he try his utmost to settle the issue by all means?
Secondly, let me turn to another article previously written in his blog titled "Together we achieve universal suffrage" ("一起實現普選"). Why would the Financial Secretary write an article about the political reform at a time when the most urgent task is to get the Budget through? What was he actually doing? Why would he mind the business of another bureau? The Financial Secretary's last article gives an impression that he is most concerned about the failure of the political reform but not the filibuster. Of course, remedial action has already been taken this week by writing the article "Repent and the shore is at hand".
Let me cite another simple real-life example. Even if the person-in-charge has nothing to do, it is inappropriate for him to mind the business of another department, not to mention that he is at sixes and sevens in his office. But instead of minding his own business, the Financial Secretary has written an article to intervene in the business of another bureau. What is his motive? If I am the boss and try to interpret the behavior of these two persons-in-charge, by applying the conspiracy theory, I would say that the former person-in-charge seeks to replace his counterpart, who receives a higher salary. The former has been vying for the latter's higher pay. Should a staff member who manipulates office politics be dismissed? He cannot be dismissed as we do not have the power to do so. We can only reduce his salary or emolument. This is the basic understanding of office politics. Instead of minding his own business, this person-in-charge has intervened in another department to show the incompetence of the person-in-charge of that department. This is one interpretation.
Even if he has nothing to do and is idle, he should not intervene in the business of other departments. I suspect that John TSANG has already made a deal with Chairman TSANG, which explains why the former can sit with his arms folded and wait for his monthly pay. The Government needs not do anything as the Chairman will set the deadline and cut off the filibuster in late May. This is hard to believe and it should not be the case. I have just discussed with the Chairman this morning and this should not be the case, unless the Chairman's LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10987 acting is so good. If the Financial Secretary is so concerned about failing to pay civil servants or providing funding for CSSA payments, why would he decide to write in his blog; why not invite "Long Hair" for a little chat? It is not enough to meet the two of us because the mastermind is "Long Hair" this time. However, he has not done so.
It was reported that after John TSANG met with the Chinese officials in Beijing last month, he is duty-bound to say something for the political reform. Let me also say something to defend Financial Secretary John TSANG. Members may refer to the article "Together we achieve universal suffrage" in John TSANG's blog. Although he berated us in two paragraphs ― he has to mention the filibuster anyway, or else he would be considered digressing from the topic ― the major part of the article is related to the appeal of Mrs Carrie LAM, who has urged us to give her a way out. John TSANG is actually using his blog to tell the Chinese officials that he is very experienced, and he has cited some examples to show that he has taken part in the global economic co-operation conferences and World Trade Organization negotiations. Regardless of whether he is well-intentioned, we are sorry to say that this does not fall within the ambit of the Financial Secretary, nor is this the thing that he should do at this critical moment. Thus, judging from the two points that he has not liaised with Members and has focused on political reform rather than the Budget, he has not done a good job.
Let me make one step further. If John TSANG has no intention to run in the Chief Executive election, he can actually say a few words from the bottom of his heart today. But if he intends to run in the Chief Executive election, he would be charged for another count of using public resources to pave way for the Chief Executive election during office hours. As the article "Together we achieve universal suffrage" was written during office hours, should his salary in the capacity as the Financial Secretary be slashed? His salary should be slashed. Luckily, the blog of the Financial Secretary is not very influential and it has become news for half day only.
In respect of coping with financial crisis, John TSANG's offence is his lack of logical administration and failure to foster harmonious relationship, his pretentious sense of humor and open-mindedness. Considering these charges, he should have his salary slashed. I remember that he once mentioned in his blog the hurling of joss money by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, and he asked LEUNG to back off. After that, some netizens also pointed their fingers at Mr 10988 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
LEUNG Kwok-hung for hurling joss money at the Financial Secretary, and doubted if this is a deferred benefit for his future use. I am not going to dwell on this matter in order not to go too far, or else the Chairman will accuse me of digressing from the question.
Coming back to the promotion of the annual budget, which falls within the ambit of the Financial Secretary, and I will be pretty brief. He is actually benefiting major businessmen and landlords using people's assets. As I have previously cited the example of the refund of rates, I am not going to repeat. But then he "splashed out on everything", and we have to remind him time and again of the saying "people are reluctant to spend money on good cause, yet willing to waste". As members of the public, we can only berate him. While John TSANG asked Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung to back off, Hong Kong people also ask John TSANG to back off. Of course, if he refuses to back off, we are not in any position to drive him away as he is not accountable to us. Therefore, we can at most propose deducting his emolument.
On the other hand, he has also been criticized of setting up a "Future Fund" to take advantage of the people. As we have said during the Second Reading debate, he has been reluctant to spend money on the one hand, but has colluded with property developers on the other. We propose to slash his salary because he has misled members of the public and failed to give a detailed account of the "Future Fund". Although the Fund is seen by the public as a scam, he does not bother to explain and address their concern. Again, this is a dereliction of duty and a waste of public money. Worse still, despite the fact that the "Future Fund" has been mentioned time and again, not only members of the public, but even Members of this Council do not know much about it. Although it has been included in the Budget, no concrete details have been provided. We therefore have reasonable right to suspect that the Financial Secretary has deliberately omitted or concealed some important information, which justifies his pay cut.
Another charge is also concerned with the failure to disclose information in the Budget. He has copied previous work. How did he copy previous work? He has copied from previous budgets. Members may look at the few budgets prepared by John TSANG. Apart from the new policies proposed by the Chief Executive in his policy addresses, John TSANG's budgets are more or less the same. He has therefore copied from his own work. As said by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung when he hurled things at John TSANG, the latter has actually copied LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10989 from previous budgets year after year. But still, he receives his salary. Is this not a great advantage to him?
Coming back again to office politics. We pay a staff member on a monthly basis and require him to submit a proposal every month, but it turns out that the proposals submitted are largely the same. Should we cut down on his pay? Likewise, for John TSANG, why should we pay him year after year? We only need to pay him for one year. As we have already paid him last year, we need not pay him again this year.
We therefore consider that the Financial Secretary's emolument should be deducted, and Members should also support the amendment proposed by the other three Members. In the face of budgets in which wrong estimates have been made year after year and not much money would be spent, Hong Kong people have long felt sick and agitated. We can only put the words "back off" into practice by supporting the amendments to deduct his emolument. This time, however, we are asking John TSANG to "back off" and vent people's anger by not paying him salary.
A member of the public has requested me to highlight another argument to support deducting John TSANG's emolument, and that is, he has made misrepresentation. Although his weird "middle-class declaration" has broken people's hearts, the Government has not taken the matter seriously. Claiming himself a middle class, John TSANG revealed in a radio programme that he was brought up in a middle-class family. Upon graduation, he and his wife became professionals. They can be identified as the middle class in both the United States and China, and they usually drink coffee and watch French movies. People were baffled by his remarks, so I think he is obliged to explain again to address people's concern. A member of the public strongly requested to slash John TSANG's handsome salary. If he claims to belong to the middle class, we should be allowed to move an amendment to slash his salary to a level on a par with the middle class, so as to regain public confidence.
I so submit.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
10990 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, if our Financial Secretary is so concerned about …
(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung stood up)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, what is your point?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): As John TSANG is not present, please do a headcount to see if he is around, so that he will not berate me in his blog so often.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Albert CHAN, please speak.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I just said that if the Financial Secretary is so concerned about whether the Budget can get through within the period of time so desired, and if he really cares about the well-beings of the grassroots, he should communicate and discuss with us more often, or he should exchange a few words with us whenever we meet. A few days ago, I greeted him when he swaggered into the Ante-chamber, but then he walked briskly into the Chamber without saying a word. Therefore, instead of writing in his blog, he should talk to us or tell us what he thinks. Many Members in this Chamber, even those from the royalist camp, sometimes chat with us whenever we meet. Mrs Regina IP, for example, often tells us her views about the filibuster.
Sending a message via the blog is, after all, the work of a spin doctor. Surely, the Financial Secretary does not truly and sincerely care about members of the public. Nor does he respect the President of the Legislative Council. The President has invited us for a meeting as he attaches importance to the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10991 message conveyed by the Financial Secretary. Contrarily, the Financial Secretary has turned a deaf ear to us and has no intention to communicate with us. While Members may approach the President for a discussion over the phone or meeting face-to-face after reading the blog, the President may also initiate discussions with us through various ways, just to gain a better understanding of the situation or express his views. And yet, so far, the Financial Secretary has not uttered a word to us even when we ran into each other, nor has he made any telephone calls. I therefore wish to take this opportunity to strongly condemn the irresponsible "Moustache TSANG". I fully support the series of amendments proposed to deduct his emolument, to dismiss him or terminate his post, hoping to tell Hong Kong people that this Financial Secretary is derelict of his duty and is morally inappropriate to assume such a senior post. Chairman, in fact, I have finished what I have to say about the Financial Secretary, but given that a new article has been published in his blog, I must take this opportunity to criticize this irresponsible "Moustache TSANG".
Chairman, next, I am going to speak on Amendment No 797 proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, which proposes to reduce head 144 by $3,380,000 in respect of subhead 000. The deduction is approximately equivalent to the estimated expenditure for the annual emolument of the Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs. As a matter of fact, when Stephen LAM or "Eunuch LAM" was the Secretary, I had proposed an amendment to slash his salary. But since I had used the term "PK" in this Chamber at that time, which was unprecedentedly ruled as improper, I was expelled from the Chamber. Why did I do so at that time? As Members may recall, I accused him that he would rather visit pandas than Hong Kong people who had lost contact after being imprisoned or arrested in the Mainland. At that time, he replied that any request to visit Hong Kong people imprisoned in the Mainland was a disrespect to the Mainland officials. I was so infuriated that I threw out the term "PK" and was then expelled from the Chamber …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, what is the relevance between what you have just said and this amendment?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): I just want to recap the history about the improper practices and approaches of the former Constitutional Affairs Bureau. Given the limited ambit of the former Constitutional Affairs Bureau, Mainland 10992 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 affairs were added to its portfolio. If my memory does not fail me, it was Stephen LAM who explored the development of Mainland affairs at that time. The emolument of the Secretary should be deducted mainly because Mainland affairs are not essential, and the Secretary or the entire Policy Bureau is derelict of duty.
As the post title has indicated, the Policy Bureau headed by Secretary Raymond TAM has two major areas of work, namely constitutional and Mainland affairs. For constitutional affairs, as we all know, we have the "auspicious trio", but the work is actually done by the Chief Secretary for Administration. Secretary Raymond TAM has been very lazy. Supposedly, he should oversee constitutional affairs, but as frequent review is not necessary, he is only required to conduct review once every few years.
I will make further elaboration on other businesses falling within the ambit of this Policy Bureau later. One of its major functions is to lead various government departments to propose systematic reforms or changes in the course of a review, and then conduct extensive, independent and open consultations on the feasibility of the proposals and public requests before compiling a report of the findings. Upon gauging public sentiment and aspiration, reasonable proposals would be made for approval by the relevant parties. Noting from the previous political reform consultations, local officials, including former and incumbent Directors of Bureaux, would conduct consultations and submit reports on a regular basis. However, Members should be aware that the ultimate changes and decisions resulting from the last political reform consultation did not rest with local officials. The implementation and approval of the relevant decision owes much to the Beijing authorities.
Coming back to the consultation of this year. Before the trio of the Hong Kong Government actually started their work, the Central Authorities have sent LI Fei to give directions and lay down the framework, which is indeed an insult to the SAR Government and the trio. And yet, our officials seemed to submit to insult. Perhaps they have been accustomed to face up to adversities when they served as officials during the colonial period, and have completely lost their dignities. Thus, even after someone slapped on their faces or stepped onto them, they could still remain cool as if nothing has happened. In the face of people intervening in their businesses or showing no trust in them … Though the officials sent to Hong Kong is not high ranking, they have been treated as VIPs. We can thus see that our senior officials are indeed very pathetic. While they LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10993 enjoy high and dignified status in Hong Kong, earning attractive salaries, being provided with government vehicles and official residences, and attending international conferences in respectable status, they will pitiably wag their tails like a Pekinese dog in front of the "Northern Giant".
There have been many cases of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau being neglected or disrespected during the political reform consultation. Discussions relating to the political reform as well as contacts and communication with Mainland officials must be done via the Chief Executive. In other words, the Secretary is useless. Although LEUNG Chun-ying is so incapable, and the entire industrial and business sector as well as senior civil servants do not respect or accept this incapable "689", we still have to count on him to open up the channels for communication before important steps concerning the political reform consultation can be made.
Worse still, it seems that the Secretary has not been informed of what the Chief Executive has done. Not only is the Secretary neglected by the "Northern Giant", he has no part to play when action is being taken by his supervisor. If "689" trusts him, he should have assigned him some jobs. This is nonetheless not the case. "689" had relayed local views to the senior level direct when he attended meetings of the two sessions in Beijing, as if the Secretary did not exist. In that case, we might as well save the $3-odd million. Given that the Secretary has no part to play in co-ordination and communication, and has made no contribution in the formulation of policies, he should assume the responsibility and step down. There is no need for him to give up personal dignity, bow to others and abandon the basic attitude of a human being in return for his salary. Judging from the ambit and performance of the Secretary's work, the post should be deleted.
The popularity rating of Raymond TAM is not the lowest and there are other officials with even lower ratings. Raymond TAM has a rating of 11%, which is not too bad. Among the numerous Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux, his popularity rating is already pretty high. Comparing with Eddie NG, Paul CHAN and Gregory SO, who have negative popularity ratings, Raymond TAM's performance is not bad at all. On the whole, the popularity ratings of principal officials who have risen through the ranks of the administrative grade have remained at an acceptable level. Recently, even the popularity rating of the so-called "political appendage", that is, Secretary for Transport and Housing who draws close to benefits, has drastically dropped.
10994 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
It is very likely that the popularity rating of Raymond TAM will plunge as the discussion on political reform intensifies, especially after the announcement of a pre-selection mechanism for the Chief Executive election. In order for him to keep his popularity rating at a certain level, he had better leave as early as possible. When Antony LEUNG was the Financial Secretary, Raymond TAM was his Press Secretary. At that time, there were queries why Raymond TAM, as a senior civil servant, had not warned his boss who was accused of jumping the gun in buying a car. I heard that some of Antony LEUNG's subordinates had warned him, but he did not listen. After all, the truth would only be revealed when the officials concerned write memoirs. He should avoid assuming this political responsibility.
As I have said, another function of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau is to oversee Mainland affairs. But if Members take a look at the work relating to the situation and development of the Mainland, they may find it not worth the money. I have already spoken on Amendment No 797 concerning emolument, Chairman, I am going to discuss two issues concerning Mainland affairs under this Policy Bureau in conjunction with Amendment No 773, which reads "Resolved that head 144 be reduced by $141,753,000 in respect of subhead 000. (The deduction is approximately equivalent to the estimated expenditure for annual emoluments of staff of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau)". Regarding Mainland affairs, manpower increase is the highest among all Policy Bureaux. The Bureau had 80 staff in 2007, but the number rose to 163 in 2014, which has almost doubled. While the amount of provision for the relevant emoluments was $84,007,000 in 2011, it rose to $141,753,000 in 2014, representing an increase of 68%.
Chairman, the number of senior officials in this Bureau is surprisingly large. Later, I will speak on the various ranks and explain why it is unreasonable to have such a high percentage of senior staff. Given that the provisions for various Policy Bureaux will be divided into different programmes, this Bureau is likewise divided into Programme (1) Director of Bureau's Office; Programme (2) Constitutional and Mainland Affairs; Programme (3) Mainland and Taiwan Offices and Programme (4) Rights of the Individual. Among them, manpower for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs is the greatest, and the number of staff has increased from only 76 in 2011 to 85 in 2014. Of course, the setting up of the new Taiwan Office has contributed to this unprecedented largest increase, boosting the number from 40 in 2011 to 70 in 2014. As for the Rights of the Individual, the number of staff has not increased over the past years, and I LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10995 will criticize this Policy Bureau for its dereliction of duty in respect of the rights of the individual later on.
Chairman, looking at Programme (2) … I am going to analyse each programme and "Long Hair" will give an account of his criticisms and opinions later on.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, after listening to what Mr Albert CHAN has said just now, pointing out that Hong Kong officials are too scared to defy their superiors, I recall an old saying "When speaking to an important person, you should look on him with a degree of contempt." Since John TSANG has attacked me time and again in his blog, though he did not mention by name, everyone knows that he was berating me, and I am obliged to respond. As part of his duty is to write in his blog, it is all too natural for us to monitor his comments made in the blog. Given that this has become a hot button issue, we should discuss it now than dwell on the same old topic …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, which amendment are you speaking on?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): The one proposed by me to deduct the emolument of John TSANG.
He asked me, in his blog, to "repent", but the contents of the relevant article are completely wrong. In his blog titled "Repent and the shore is at hand", he said (I quote), "Last Wednesday, the Legislative Council resumed the Second Reading debate on the Appropriation Bill. Three days have passed and nearly 32 hours have been spent, but most of the time was not taken up by Members' speeches … the 45 requests for headcount has used a total of nearly seven hours, which has seriously undermined the progress of the meeting."
May I ask the Chairman if requests for headcounts are not allowed? Chairman, would you say that Members are not duty-bound to request for headcounts but to excuse themselves from meetings? What is wrong if Members alert the Chairman when they notice that a quorum is lacking? Why would he hurl criticisms at this in his blog from the outset? Why did he not 10996 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 point his finger at Members who were absent from the meeting? Mr WONG Kwok-hing, for example, is now playing with his mobile phone and we can do nothing about it. What the Financial Secretary said right at the beginning of his blog is wrong. Overseas people who read this blog may think that requesting a headcount in this Chamber is a sin and an irresponsible act, while Members going out for milk tea instead of attending the meeting in the Chamber have performed their duty. He has indeed brought Hong Kong people into disrepute. The first paragraph of the article "Repent and the shore is at hand" is nothing but a lie, and has brought Hong Kong into disrepute.
He then went on to pay tribute to Members who have endured the summoning bell these days. John TSANG, do you think that they are not remunerated? Why should anyone pay tribute to them? We should only pay tribute to students who died in the 1989 pro-democracy movement. As a saying goes, "One should beware of the danger when he is flattered. Fine words and an insinuating appearance are seldom associated with true virtue". As the Financial Secretary, he appraises other people for no reason, reflecting his lack of integrity. This is what we mean by "Fine words and an insinuating appearance are seldom associated with true virtue".
He also accused me of launching the filibuster. In fact, I have already responded to this, but it turned out that my comments have not been reported by many media reports. So, today, I will respond again and Members should pay attention. My response is: "Is it possible to arbitrarily gauge the heart of a moral man with one's own mean measure or talk with an insect of the summer about plum blossom? When old folks are facing hard times having no rice to eat, the Financial Secretary smiled and told them to eat meat congee." This reply contains four historical anecdotes, but knowing that the Financial Secretary studied abroad and watches French movies, it would be a waste of time citing anecdotes when talking with him.
The proper wordings should be "Would that it were with minds of superior men as it is with the bellies of small men like us!" It is only that we used to say "gauging the heart of a gentleman with one's own mean measure", which is an idiom. Anyways, this does not matter. What I mean is, given Secretary John TSANG's tolerance and knowledge, how can he gauge the heart of an ordinary person like "Long Hair"? John TSANG is no ordinary person but born with blue blood. He is actually "gauging the heart of a gentleman with his own mean measure".
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10997
"Talk with an insect of the summer about plum blossom" is actually derived from Zhuangzi's The Floods of Autumn, in which we have "An insect of the summer cannot be talked with about ice". It means that it is a waste of time talking with an insect of the summer about ice as it has never seen ice before. Likewise, "the view of a frog" is derived from "A frog in a well cannot be talked with about the sea". We do love our country and Hong Kong because we have cited Chinese analogies in our speeches. Instead of wasting time watching French movies, we discuss the heritage of our country. I know that Secretary John TSANG is having coffee outside the Chamber, but in order to pay tribute to them, I am not requesting a headcount. Here he returns!
How can someone talk with an insect of the summer about ice? I also wish to compare myself to the poem "Plum Blossoms" written by WANG Anshi, which reads, "At a wall corner some plum trees grow; Alone against cold white blossoms blow. Aloof one knows they aren't the snow, As faint through air soft fragrances flow." We are now covered by a thick layer of ice, but still members of the public can smell our fragrances. Members of the public may wonder why "Long Hair" has been fighting for universal retirement protection year after year. Will he drop dead without universal retirement protection? Yesterday, many elderly people asked me not to pursue anymore as they could feel the pain in me. I nonetheless refused because I am the only one who suffer. This is precisely the meaning of "Aloof one knows they aren't the snow, As faint through air soft fragrances flow." Staying in the political field for so long, the Financial Secretary has become used to the stink in the fish market, so how can he smell my fragrance?
The two sentences "When old folks are facing hard time having no rice to eat, the Financial Secretary smiled and told them to eat meat congee", which originates from the Annals of Emperor Hui in the Book of Jin, are very easy to understand. When someone told Emperor Hui that people had nothing to eat, Emperor Hui, a stupid moron like John TSANG, asked "Why didn't they eat meat congee instead?" Someone suggested earmarking $50 billion to help the elderly, yet he proposed setting aside $220 billion for the establishment of the "Future Fund". Some people say that the elderly are dying and may not be able to enjoy the fruit borne by this Fund, he argues that the number of elderly people will further increase 10-odd years later and there is not enough money for the "big white elephant" projects. He therefore has to earmark $220 billion for this purpose and allocate funds from the fiscal surplus each year. Is there any difference from the reply "Why didn't they eat meat congee instead?" given by Emperor Hui? This is tantamount to telling the elderly if they still survive by a 10998 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 certain period, they can use a certain bridge and can ride on the MTR with $2. How magnificent! We could hardly survive without these, and elderly people have to ride on the MTR even if they have no money to feed themselves, they could draw a cake to sate hunger. How can he say such thing!
I have used four historical anecdotes to satirize him, but did he get it? Certainly not. I therefore do not expect to hear a "thank you" from him. Chairman, I propose to deduct his emolument and would like to thank "YUEN Qiu" for this. Is she here? Never mind. I do not bother to ask her back. "YUEN Qiu" bought some dog biscuits for me to eat, and I did eat them. A great man knows when to yield and when not, but this is not worth talking about. However, the Secretary will certainly not eat them. Increasing his emolument is tantamount to feeding him with dog biscuits. Why not ask him to swallow the same amount of cash instead. Given that he has asked elderly people without money for rice to eat meat porridge instead, he himself should eat dog biscuits, which are cheaper. And, we can then deduct his emolument. The proposed deduction is a humanitarian move as we rarely resort to euthanasia. So long as he has dog biscuits to eat, we can slash his salary and he would be fine with other alternatives. I am talking about John TSANG. Yesterday, I tried to eat the dog biscuit with a cup of coffee and it tastes good. "Eating dog biscuits with coffee and feeding scholars with dog food". I do care about you, please wake up!
Chairman, let us come back to our main story. Earlier on, I reproved that John TSANG has all along counted on the guidance and support of his "sworn brother" Donald TSANG, and assumed the post as the Financial Secretary in 2007. And yet, he has time and again made wrong estimates. The amount involved was $8.9 billion in 2008-2009 and $65.8 in 2009-2010, but then it rose to $100.3 billion in 2010-2011, and the worst has yet to come. Wrong estimates were made time and again in 2011-2012 ($82.2 billion), 2012-2013 ($68.2 billion) and 2013-2014 ($16.9 billion). Chairman, my request for a provision of $50 billion should be granted at ease as John TSANG can simply offset this sum from the wrong estimates. How serious is his dereliction of duty in making a wrong estimate of as high as $100.3 billion in 2010-2011?
He attempted to cover up his wrong estimates by handing out money, and suggested an injection of $10,000 into each Mandatory Provident Fund account. Subsequently, the amount was further increased to $12,000 due to inflation, which could only be withdrawn when people reached the age of 65. This Council "turned hostile" against him at that time, and even the conservative camp approached him for discussions. The proposal was subsequently amended. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 10999
Even if he does not have "a Buddhist heart", but if he can be so kind-hearted as he was in 2010-2011 and admitted his own mistakes, he should immediately establish the Universal Retirement Protection Fund, which should be able to save the elderly people twice.
What kind of person is he? Despite his repeated mistakes in making estimates, he still spends his days with coffee and movies, and refuses to "hand out candies". He argues that a "Future Fund" will be established and all future surpluses will go to this Fund. The Chief Executive has undertaken in his election manifesto to establish an old age pension when appropriate, but this is the second year after he resumed office and two fifths of his office term has passed. When will be the appropriate time for establishing the old age pension if it is not now? Is it because he has projected that he will have an office term of 10 years? No matter what, John TSANG should implement the Chief Executive's manifesto. Perhaps the Chief Executive has lied too often and forgotten what has been said, so John TSANG should remind him to prepare for this. However, he has not done so. Instead of reminding the Chief Executive to honour his pledge, he has condoned the evildoer by letting him go.
The problem should have been resolved if he had set aside $50 billion out of that $220 billion and used $170 billion to implement his "big white elephant fund". But has he ever discussed with me? Has he ever cared about me, my electors or the elderly people like I care about him? He only cares about the French movies and has shamelessly asked me to "repent and the shore is at hand". Does he have any idea about this tenet of "repent and the shore is at hand"? If he does not, he should ask his Political Assistant to write a better article for him because he is not good at writing Chinese. In his blog, he writes "the same situation took place last year" ("相同的情況，去年已經發生過"). What kind of Chinese is this? Is it translated from English? This is poor Chinese. Not only is a punctuation mark arbitrarily added between two sentences, the phrase "已經發生過" actually adopts English grammar in writing Chinese. What does it mean by "已經發生過"? Is this a translation? Although money has been spent, it turns out that the entire article has used "Chinglish".
Chairman, John TSANG likes poking his nose into other people's business. Before the publication of the article "Repent and the shore is at hand" in his blog, he has published another article titled "Together we achieve universal suffrage". Honestly speaking, he is like a wry-mouthed monk chanting scriptures, therefore distorting all serious scriptures. He has been so ridiculous to say that Hong Kong must implement universal suffrage, without which we can no longer remain 11000 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 as a financial centre. He then called on members of the public to achieve universal suffrage altogether. As we have indicated, civil nomination is our minimum requirement. Can he give a response to this? He cannot. Worse still, he called on us to finish the work with him. Can he stop bragging about things that he does not know? He then went on to say that (I quote) "I have taken part in World Trade Organization (WTO) negotiations as a Hong Kong representative" ― I almost laugh to death ― "and WTO negotiations are indeed more complicated than our political tug-of-war as they require a general consensus of all members. If any single member raises opposition, no agreement can be reached and the majority rule does not apply".
Today, we are talking about an economy, a system which prevents Hong Kong's elderly people from starvation, and this certainly requires our consent. I am now seeking Members' consent, and I will try to lobby them if I fail. Given that the WTO negotiation is a matter of competition among countries, it is not an appropriate description for an advanced metropolis like Hong Kong. What conflict of interest do we have? If we have, it would be the millions of people being ruled by a Chief Executive elected by 1 200 people. This is precisely the problem, as what he said, but Hong Kong is certainly not the WTO. Therefore, Chairman, I (The buzzer sounded) … I have to wait for my next turn to chide him.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, Members should not bring food into the Chamber, so please put away that box of biscuits.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): This is a box of dog biscuits.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, if I did not see wrongly, you were eating that box of biscuits just now.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Yes, someone was eating just now.
(Mr Gary FAN stood up)
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11001
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I request a headcount.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, please speak.
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, in this joint debate, I will explain Amendment No 144 proposed by me, that is, to reduce head 144 by $12 million in respect of subhead 000, which is equivalent to the estimated expenditure for the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, please repeat the number of your amendment.
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Okay. It is Amendment No 144.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I fail to see Amendment No 144 in this joint debate. You are speaking on head 144, right?
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Right, subhead 000.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Are you saying that it is Amendment No 144?
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, right, No 144. Sorry, it should be head 144 and Amendment No 786.
11002 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): That is correct. It should be Amendment No 786.
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Yes. I am sorry about that.
Chairman, let me repeat. I am speaking to deduct the amount of annual estimated expenditure of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau for the public consultations on the methods for selecting the Chief Executive in 2017 and the forming of the Legislative Council in 2016. Why? After the first-phase public consultation on the political reform commenced in December 2013, the community doubted that the Government has pre-determined positions. The "constitutional reform trio", formed by Chief Secretary for Administration Mrs Carrie LAM, Secretary for Justice Rimsky YUEN and Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Raymond TAM, have time and again openly denied and ruled out the possibility of civil nomination during the consultation. On the face of it, this is a publicity strategy aiming to create an illusion of discussion, but the earlier remarks made by Chief Secretary Mrs Carries LAM has actually told the truth. The Government has the final say and will give members of the public a bogus universal suffrage proposal with screening where people will be deprived of their civil rights.
Chairman, the Government has guided members of the public to discuss the proposal to select the Chief Executive by universal suffrage under the framework set by the Government ever since the political reform consultation was kicked off. In the consultation document released by the Government, a straw man argument has been applied. While it is stipulated that the nominating committee may be formed "with reference to" ("可參照") Annex I to the Basic Law, under which the Election Committee is comprised of four major sectors, the Government has quoted the remarks of Beijing official QIAO Xiaoyang and interpreted it as "須 參 照", meaning that reference must be made. The consultation document also quoted QIAO's remarks to highlight the need to make nomination of the nominating committee by means of institutional nomination. From this, we can see that various hurdles have been set right at the beginning of the political reform consultation, thereby suppressing local views in support of civil nomination. Even in the face of doubts, Chief Secretary Mrs Carrie LAM still vowed that they are the views of Beijing officials, and are self-evident and "basically in line with" the Basic Law. Chairman, I nonetheless think that the SAR Government has actually rested the result of the Chief Executive election firmly into the hands of the Beijing authorities. What is self-evident is the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11003
Government's firm position towards selection, which has made the selection of the Chief Executive in 2017 remain "basically in line with" to the coterie election.
A member of the trio, Secretary for Justice Rimsky YUEN, has emerged as an authoritative interpreter of the Basic Law in his capacity as the head of the Judiciary. During the public consultation, he has time and again openly denounced civil nomination for not complying with the Basic Law. He has forgotten that he is also the leader of the political reform consultation, and should remain impartial and listen to the various views of Hong Kong people. In January 2014, Chief Secretary Raymond TAM has also stated in his blog …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, Secretary Raymond TAM has yet to be promoted to the post of a Secretary of Department.
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): What? Oh yes, sorry. Chairman, thank you for your correction. It should be Secretary Raymond TAM, who said in January 2014 that it would be difficult to suit all tastes. Above all, that matters most in political reform is to propose an option and the public should take this option first. This means that even if the ultimate proposal is not the cup of tea of Hong Kong people, we should accept it anyway. Chairman, apparently, all these remarks prove that the so-called consultation conducted by the Government is nothing more than a spectacular show to lure people to accept a universal suffrage proposal with screening. I therefore propose to deduct the entire year's estimated expenditure for the political reform consultation, so as to condemn the SAR Government for conducting such a bogus consultation with pre-determined positions.
Chairman, the slogan which the SAR Government has chanted most often during the political reform consultation is "Let's talk". Extensive publicity campaign has been launched through newspapers and television, and visits to the districts have also been organized. Yet, the most expensive of all is the filming of Announcements in the Public Interest (APIs) to be broadcast on television and the Internet. In the first promotional video, the "constitutional reform trio" appeared on the screen to invite members of the public "to talk and listen together". Sarcastically, however, after the Government uploaded this promotional video to YouTube, it disallows Hong Kong residents from leaving any message or expressing any views on the website. Such an approach and mentality precisely reflect that the Government is not sincere to talk. Chairman, during the advanced stage of the political reform consultation, the Government 11004 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 continued to spend huge sums of public money on promotional videos for television to call on members of the public to take this opportunity to achieve universal suffrage. However, the promotional video has only selectively mentioned the right to vote on a one person one vote basis, neglecting the universal definition of universal suffrage. In fact, apart from the right to vote, we also have the right to stand for election. Chairman, these obviously biased advertisements and promotional strategies have not facilitated public discussion on the various universal suffrage models and the forging of consensus. Rather, it shows that the Government is indeed promoting an election model for the Chief Executive with an element of screening as desired by the Beijing authorities. Although the first-stage political reform consultation ended on 3 May, the Government's promotional campaign has yet to come to an end. The latest video clip was uploaded on 8 May. On that clip, Dr LEONG Che-hung highlights the importance of the criteria that the Chief Executive should love the country and Hong Kong, which is indeed a one-way dissemination of the Government's pre-determined position. This falls short of people's expectation for the political reform consultation. Such bogus consultation does not worth our continuous support using public money.
Chairman, not only the "constitutional reform trio" has turned the political reform consultation into a bogus consultation, the Beijing Government and the Central Government have also joined hands to make the consultation process nothing more than a backdrop. This has not only defeated the real meaning of the consultation, but has also undermined the "one country, two systems" principle and showed no respect to the consultation conducted under the authority of the SAR Government. According to the "five-step mechanism" formulated in 2004, step one is that the Chief Executive shall make a report to the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPCSC) as to whether there is a need to amend the two electoral methods. Thus, before the report is made by the Chief Executive, the Beijing Government actually does not have any part to play in Hong Kong's political reform. But before the conclusion of the political reform consultation and the initiation of step one, the Beijing Government has already met with Legislative Council Members time and again through the Liaison Office of the Central People's Government in the HKSAR, and has even invited the entire Council to Shanghai. On the pretext of seeking views about the political reform, it aimed to pacify and enlist support from Legislative Council Members through united front work. Such practice of the Beijing Government …
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11005
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, what is the relevance between what you are saying and this amendment?
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): I will go back to the "constitutional reform trio" very soon. If the trio notices that what the Beijing Government has been doing will undermine the "one country, two systems" principle, circumvent the principles of "Hong Kong people ruling Hong Kong" and "a high degree of autonomy", and even affect the political reform consultation under their purview, they should make their voice heard instead of turning a blind eye to the situation. Given that the Beijing Government has circumvented the established procedures, the Chief Executive and the trio are duty-bound to rise to safeguard the inherent principles of "Hong Kong people ruling Hong Kong" and "a high degree of autonomy", instead of actively making arrangements for meetings between Beijing officials and Members. I therefore propose this amendment to reduce the funding for further political reform consultation.
Chairman, on 6 May, 2 500 people who have signed the letter of intent for the Occupy Central movement and participated in the deliberation days cast their votes and selected three options on the Chief Executive electoral system. These options will be put to vote on 22 June by universal suffrage. All these three options contain civil nomination, which is an important manifestation of public views. If the result of the referendum shows that civil nomination has majority support, but government officials overseeing the political reform consultation insisted on Raymond TAM's approach of discarding proposals that were incompatible with the Basic Law, and listening to public views on a selective basis, the ongoing political reform consultation under the banner of "Let's talk" would be utterly powerless and end up in a failure.
Therefore, Chairman, on behalf of the Neo Democrats, I propose to reduce head 144 in respect of subhead 000 to deduct the annual estimated expenditure of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau for the public consultation on the methods for selecting the Chief Executive in 2017 and for forming the Legislative Council in 2016, so as to urge the Government to respect the views expressed by Hong Kong people during the political reform consultation and not to arbitrarily mute the voices that fail to strike a chord with the SAR or Beijing Government. On the other hand, Chief Executive LEUNG Chun-ying should also make a frank report to the NPCSC, highlighting the aspiration of Hong Kong people for a genuine universal suffrage without screening, as well as the views of 2 500 11006 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 residents who have taken part in the Occupy Central movement on the importance of civil nomination. Otherwise, the political reform consultation should no longer continue.
Chairman, I so submit.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): I will continue to speak on Amendment No 731 …
(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung stood up)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, what is your point?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Point of order. Mr WONG Kwok-hing is not in the Chamber now, I would like the Chairman to summon him back.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, the purpose of making a headcount is not to ascertain whether a specific Member is in the Chamber or not.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Okay, I am sorry. I take back my remark that Mr WONG Kwok-hing is not in the Chamber …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Do you request for a headcount?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Yes.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11007
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please continue.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): I will continue to speak on Amendment Nos 731 to 733 to deduct an amount equivalent to the estimated expenditure for the annual emolument of the Financial Secretary. There are many reasons to deduct the emolument of the Financial Secretary, but simply put, he is "a thief crying thief". He vilifies those Members who exercise their powers under the Rules of Procedure to scrutinize the Budget during the Committee stage as "putting on a show", and intends to influence Members' speeches with his words. Chairman, as you also know, for each joint debate on various expenditure heads with amendments, the amendments are proposed by more than 10 Members, and each Member is entitled to speak on his own or other Members' amendments in the debate. John TSANG's vilification that Members are "putting on a show" is already a charge in itself. However, by saying that he is "a thief crying thief", what I mean is that he has not only vilified Members, but he himself has also "put on a show", a lousy show.
I am not the only one holding such a view or having such a feeling. Chairman, you should have sensed something too. Let me quote the Chairman's remarks as reported in today's newspapers: "Members understand that if the Legislative Council cannot proceed to vote on the Appropriation Bill by the end of this month or early next month, it would result in financial difficulties for the Government." Even the Chairman has only used the expression "financial difficulties", instead of "financial crisis" or "fiscal cliff" as mentioned by the Financial Secretary. Even the Chairman does not truly believe in his words. What the Chairman said next is critical: "But the Government is also responsible for putting in place corresponding measures in case of any delay in approving the funding provisions." In other words, the Government should not assume that the Bill must be passed by the Legislative Council by the end of May.
11008 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Whenever the Government implements a plans, it always has some fallback plans, right? For example, when we organize an event, we would have an alternative plan in case it rains, right? Even if no Member is filibustering, there is still the possibility that the Budget may not be passed, say, if the Council cannot convene a meeting due to black rainstorms every day. Moreover, there is the possibility of having another influenza outbreak, resulting in half of the Members falling ill and hence, the meeting has to be adjourned. How come the Government has not made any reasonable preparation at all? Besides, if the Government has learned from last year's experience, shouldn't it have made preparation to apply for supplementary provisions again? Chairman, has the Government informed you of any plan, idea or possibility of applying for supplementary provisions again? As far as I learn from the media, the Government has not done so, that is, it has not made any preparation for a rainy day, nor has it formulated any contingency plan, or any fallback plan. As the saying goes, "In nature there are unexpected storms and in life unpredictable vicissitudes", why does the Government have no fallback plan at all?
In addition, fallback plan aside, the Government should all the more make some sort of "forward" planning. What do I mean by "forward" planning? The Government had such experience last year. This year, Members have all along not concealed their intention to propose more than 1 000 amendments to the Bill. These amendments do not come up suddenly. Why then does the Government only apply for supplementary provisions to cover its expenditure for April and May only, but not for June as well? If the month of June is also covered, there would be no fiscal cliff, or the crisis would not be as serious as claimed by the Government. Given the Government's refusal to make another application for supplementary provision or to apply for more funds, isn't the Financial Secretary "putting on a show"? If it is a genuine case of life and death, the Government could be running into an unprecedented fiscal cliff, and it should treat it as an emergency case making full preparation. However, the Government has not done so.
Last year, the Government had also written to those Members who participated in the filibustering and met with them. However, the Financial Secretary did not do so willingly. As I recall, as Members had indicated at a meeting that the Government should also played a role in meeting with Members, the Financial Secretary thus wrote to us. But this year, the Financial Secretary not only acts poorly, but is also reluctant to put on a show. As I just said, last year the Government did not act out of sincerity to write to us or give us a call, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11009 but this year, he does not even bother to do so, and has not met with us. Given the various comments made today, perhaps he would be compelled to meet with us, as he and his boss can then be accountable to the public by claiming that they have exhausted every possibility. Should, unfortunately, the Government really runs into an unprecedented fiscal cliff, John TSANG would undoubtedly have unshirkable responsibility. Although this problem has yet to emerge and is unlikely to emerge in our view, the Financial Secretary still deserves to have his emolument deducted since he has made no preparation at all. This small punishment can serve as a big warning. If his emolument is deducted this year, he would be fully prepared next year.
Moreover, John TSANG has not endeavoured to promote the Budget with his best effort, so as to win the support of most Members. He promoted the Budget half-heartedly. As I have said before, he makes wrong estimation year after year, and has not changed the wording of the budget year after year. His only concern is to get enough votes to pass the Budget, and with so many Members in the pro-establishment camp, he is sure to have 35 votes. He neither intends to lobby for support from more Members nor even bothers to give us any further explanation. In fact, John TSANG's hidden agenda is not to get high score for his Budget, but to bring out his concept about long-term management of public finance through the Budget. Perhaps, in his view, through the report of the Working Group on Long-Term Fiscal Planning, he has been successful in bringing out the message that the Government will run into structural deficit in seven years' time. It does not matter how many members of the public subscribe to his concept, or whether he is just crying wolf, he has at least managed to bring out the message. He has devoted most of the time and effort in advocating this message and the so-called "Future Fund", instead of promoting the Budget. Hence, he is guilty of not endeavouring to promote the Budget or setting his focus wrongly.
But unfortunately, selling the concept of a possible structural deficit in seven years' time and the need for the Government to cut down on its expenditure has created conflicts with his boss, LEUNG Chun-ying. Last month, the International Monetary Fund Staff Mission to Hong Kong endorsed our financial monitoring measures, the Linked Exchange Rate System, housing policy and prudent fiscal management. Of course, the Financial Secretary was overjoyed that Hong Kong's prudent fiscal management had been endorsed by an international organization. But when LEUNG Chun-ying responded to the said report on the day of its release as he left the venue of the Boao Forum, he only 11010 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 mentioned the first three points in a high-profile manner, namely, the financial monitoring measures, the Linked Exchange Rate System and housing policy, without saying a word on prudent fiscal management. The crux is not what he has said, but what he has not said. LEUNG Chun-ying wants to spend more, but John TSANG does not want him to do so. Under the "odd one out" principle, if John TSANG cannot convince LEUNG Chin-ying, he should resign. As we cannot make him resign, we can only deduct his emolument. Of course, "Long Hair" does not agree with my analysis. He holds that LEUNG Chun-ying is very fond of John TSANG because LEUNG is adept at making oral undertakings while TSANG is holding the purse string tight. As a result, LEUNG does not have to foot the bill because John TSANG does not allow him to do so. For example, LEUNG Chun-ying invites someone to dinner, but when it is time to pay the bill, John TSANG refuses to allocate money. Isn't it great that LEUNG's oral undertakings would cost nothing? If Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung's analysis is correct, we should deduct the emolument of John TSANG or dismiss him because he has prevented the Chief Executive from fulfilling his oral undertakings by the use of public finance.
I would now talk about the most critical issue. With the implementation of the Accountability System for Principal Officials in Hong Kong at present, each accountability official (Secretaries of Departments or Directors of Bureaux alike) must take responsibility for their own policy portfolios. The accountability system was once working effectively in the early years as two former Secretaries, namely, Frederick MA and Dr YEOH Eng-kiong had tendered their resignation for the penny stock incident and the SARS pandemic respectively. But to date, the accountability system exists in name only, without any actual effect. Principal officials should accept responsibility and resign not only because of the mistakes they made, but also because of their failure to implement important government policies. As we cannot compel principal officials to resign, we can only use our power to propose a deduction of their emoluments in the course of scrutinizing the Budget. In our present day society, neither the Chief Executive nor his principal officials has to be accountable to the public and the Legislative Council. In the past two years, the Legislative Council had witnessed too many incidents of this kind. This is actually in breach of the provisions in the Sino-British Joint Declaration and Article 64 of the Basic Law which provides that the Government must be accountable to the Legislative Council. The same rationale also applies for Chief Secretary Mrs Carrie LAM, whom I will talk about later. When an official fails to implement LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11011 an important government policy, he should resign. We cannot compel officials to resign and hence, we support the amendments to deduct their emoluments to serve the purpose.
So much for John TSANG for the time being. I will move on to the amendments to deduct various amounts under head 142 which are roughly equivalent to the estimated expenditure for one year's or six months' emolument of the Chief Secretary for Administration. Amendment No 729 is proposed by Mr Albert CHAN, which reads "Resolved that head 142 be reduced by $3,750,000 in respect of subhead 000 (which is roughly equivalent to the estimated expenditure for one year's emolument of the Chief Secretary for Administration)". Amendment No 730 proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung has the same content. Amendment No 737 is also proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung which reads, "Resolved that head 142 be reduced by $1,875,000 in respect of subhead 000 (which is roughly equivalent to the estimated expenditure for six-months' emolument of the Chief Secretary for Administration)".
When I read these two amendments proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, I cannot help but ask him one question, and I hope he can find time to respond to it later. Why does he propose to deduct one year's emolument of John TSANG but propose another option with regard to deducting Carrie LAM's emolument, that is, deducting six months' emolument? Is he being more lenient to Carrie LAM? The performance of an official is the determining factor of whether his emolument should be deducted or not. Being a "good fighter", Mrs Carrie LAM is an exceptionally capable "nanny" to the Secretaries. Whenever the Secretaries have said or done something wrong, they would all hide behind her and she would step forward to rectify the situation. Some people consider it her principal duty, but if that is the case, she should get a share of the emoluments deducted from the Secretaries.
Let us consider the duties of the Chief Secretary as stated in the homepage of the Chief Secretary for Administration's Office. The Chief Secretary's work is to dedicate herself to "assisting the Chief Executive in implementing his policy blueprint". That is her priority programme. Hence, whether LEUNG Chung-ying's policy blueprint can be implemented or not would serve as an indicator of whether the Chief Secretary's emolument should be deducted. Now, I will first talk about the three priorities of her work this year (which are not part of her general duties). All these areas of work are related to the livelihood and future prospects of Hong Kong people, as well as Hong Kong's development.
11012 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
The first task is poverty alleviation. Poverty alleviation and housing are the top priorities of LEUNG Chun-ying. As pointed out by Carrie LAM, the current-term Government is determined to tackle the poverty problem. To this end, the Commission on Poverty (CoP) was set up in late 2012 under her chairmanship, and the first official poverty line was published at the CoP Summit in September 2013. In the light of the promulgation of the poverty line and the analysis of the poverty situation in Hong Kong, the Chief Executive announced in his 2014 Policy Address a comprehensive list of policy initiatives on poverty alleviation and support for the disadvantaged, which form the current-term Government's blueprint for poverty alleviation. I will give a detailed analysis later on whether these policy measures have been implemented and how effective they are. Nonetheless, I must raise a very important issue at this juncture. The Chief Secretary is the Chairman of the CoP, and its meetings lack transparency. In the Legislative Council, the Subcommittee on Poverty has been set up to mirror the CoP's work. We have once asked for the agenda of its meetings (The buzzer sounded) … but our request had been rejected.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, just now, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen said that the Accountability System for Principal Officials has actually ceased to exist. On the one hand, this system has not been mentioned at all in the policy addresses of several terms of Chief Executive. On the other hand, the principal officials have repeatedly committed disastrous mistakes, they have failed to fulfil their undertakings, or worse still, they keep telling lies and have neglected their duties. Yet those despicable and shameless officials still remain in office, drawing handsome salaries and wielding great powers. Hence …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, please indicate which amendment you are now speaking on.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I wish to remind Mr CHAN Chi-chuen that he should not have any expectation of the accountability system. If it is not mentioned, it no longer exists. Besides, he talked as if it is the Chief Secretary's duty to babysit the Secretaries, but actually this should not be the case. In the jargon of social workers, this is called "creative dependency", and principal government officials are in fact … Principal government officials aside, young LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11013 people working in any private organizations, or even at home, should be allowed to grow independently and autonomously, rather than being taken care of by a babysitter …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, this is the 22nd time you speak. Please speak on the relevant amendments.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, you are right because those amendments are also related to the allocation of provisions. I only want to explain my reasons for supporting the amendments to deduct the emoluments of the Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux concerned.
Chairman, just now, I talked about the manpower problems of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, as well as the rationale for deducting the provisions for the annual emoluments of the Secretary and the relevant staff of the Bureau. In my last speech, I referred to the changes in staffing establishment in several programmes over the past few years. One of the programmes with a particularly large increase in manpower is "Mainland and Taiwan Offices", but I cannot see any actual meaning for such an increase. As far as Hong Kong is concerned, it will bring no benefit at all. In particular, from the perspective of Hong Kong people, instead of bringing them any benefit, the additional resource allocation on the staffing and office expenses of Mainland Offices will actually bring them more harm because such offices are set up to promote Hong Kong.
According to some recent commentaries, thanks to the relevant Mainland policies, Kong Kong's localism campaign has become vibrant. With an increasing number of Mainland visitors to Hong Kong, the territory's economic culture has been colonized, resulting in emotional and ideological repulsion and retaliation on the part of Hong Kong people. In the end, a powerful "anti-locust" movement or localism campaign against Mainland visitors has emerged in Hong Kong.
Obviously, this is caused by the dereliction of duty or blunders on the part of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau. As stated in Programme (2), the Bureau's main responsibilities include firstly, "the implementation of the Basic Law". I will not comment on this point again because a lot has been said previously. Regarding the interpretation of the Basic Law, the Hong Kong Government is acting like a coward, with Mainland senior officials and scholars 11014 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 taking the lead completely. Most Hong Kong officials including the Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux are only "yes-men", and they will never strive for the interests and rights of Hong Kong people under the Basic Law.
One of the Bureau's responsibilities under Programme (2) is to "promote and co-ordinate closer co-operation with the Mainland, Macao SAR and Taiwan, and advise bureaux and departments on related matters as necessary". Chairman, the crux is that such a tie should be co-ordinated "on related matters as necessary" through communication between Hong Kong and the Mainland, especially about the development and needs of visitors. On the Hong Kong side, apart from a very crude assessment conducted last year without any consideration on Hong Kong people's needs, the Government has never conducted any assessment in this regard before. Moreover, regarding its work to promote this tie of co-operation, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau has never provided any analysis, data or conclusion "as necessary" on the problem concerning the special needs of Hong Kong. It has done nothing in this regard. In other words, all its promotional work in this regard has been conducted casually on the sole basis of some undisclosed reasons, special political missions or personal preferences of the officials concerned. In addition, the Government has failed to conduct any assessment on the consequences of such promotional work. This will of course lead to catastrophic problems in Hong Kong as many shops are forced to close down.
Chairman, I wish to point out that this is not only a problem for the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau. Chairman, as I am talking about the problems of Hong Kong, I hope I can draw more attention from Members. Even though it is meal time now, the Chamber should not be so empty; in particular, there are no Members sitting in front of me and on my right hand side. It is unsightly for members of the public to notice that so few Members attend the Council meeting. Hence, even though Mr WONG Kwok-hing is in the Chamber now, I still request a headcount.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11015
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Albert CHAN, please continue.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, just now, I mentioned that the development and increase in manpower are primarily concerned with the Mainland Offices. Concerning to the Bureau's responsibilities in the Mainland, basically, no analysis or study has been conducted. As a result, instead of bringing positive results for Hong Kong, many developments have instead created negative impacts.
In 2014-2015, one of the matters requiring special attention under Programme (2) is "continue to deepen regional co-operation with the Mainland, targeting in particular at Guangdong, Beijing, Shanghai …". In fact, Hong Kong people have become increasingly resistant to having so much close co-operation with the Mainland, not to mention the "deepening" of such co-operation. Hong Kong people have vowed to defend our local characteristics as well as our core values, and continue to preserve our traditional industries. With increasing co-operation with the Mainland, the essence of Hong Kong will gradually disappear, either through assimilation, annihilation or replacement by red capital. This situation is definitely not beneficial for Hong Kong.
Throughout the decades of development in Hong Kong from the post-war era or since the 1911 Revolution, the territory has been developing on the basis of its own local characteristics, without the need for any co-ordination. Over the years or over the century, Hong Kong has been developing without any co-ordination from the Central Authorities in relation to the respective positions and roles between Hong Kong and its neighbouring regions. Moreover, there is no need for any deepening of co-operation in this regard.
Hence, on account of the reasons stated above, I consider that it is indeed unnecessary to set up so many Mainland Offices. Regarding the consultation on constitutional reform mentioned just now, according to some commentaries, the so-called consultation and report on the methods for selecting the Chief Executive in 2017 and for forming the Legislative Council in 2016 are actually bogus consultations. Some hold that this is a hoax of the century, and given the elements of misrepresentation and fraud, the outcome should rightfully be over-turned and rejected.
11016 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
One of the Bureau's main responsibilities under Programme (2) is to implement the Framework Agreement on Hong Kong/Guangdong Co-operation. Chairman, many people have become increasingly sceptical about the agreement. Back then, the relevant agreement was actually drawn up in closed meetings of senior government officials. Firstly, Hong Kong people did not have many opportunities to express their views on the scope of the agreement. I can say clearly that when the agreement was eventually implemented, it had nothing to do with Hong Kong people's aspiration. Hence, if there is no staff to implement the agreement, it will actually be beneficial for Hong Kong.
Chairman, I will not go into too many details here but suffice to say that the relevant tasks which include striving to complete the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge by 2016, constructing the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link, expediting the Eastern Corridor in Shenzhen (which is a cross-border expressway), promoting the expansion of cross-border trade, investment and financing, exploring the Intermodal Transshipment Facilitation Scheme of the Customs and Excise Department, so on and so forth, would basically speed up the so-called integration between the Mainland and Hong Kong. Actually, the expression "integration between the Mainland and Hong Kong" is a terminology used by the Central Authorities. As far as Hong Kong people are concerned, "integration between the Mainland and Hong Kong" is synonymous with stripping away the essence of Hong Kong and turning it "red". Hence, this is definitely unacceptable.
Chairman, regarding Programme (3), I think many Hong Kong people would surely welcome contacts between Hong Kong and other regions, especially Taiwan for more and more Hong Kong people are now going to Taiwan. In fact, the Hong Kong Government needs not set up any offices in Taiwan as more and more Hong Kong people would like to go to Taiwan for settlement, investment or sightseeing, particularly because they are reluctant to go to Thailand and the Philippines lately. Hence, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan have become the favourite destinations of Hong Kong people for sightseeing and travelling. As such, there are many related developments, albeit not to the extent of obviating the need for official liaison. But from Taiwan's perspective, basically it is not keen to have contacts with the Hong Kong Government; there are various reasons, one of which is that there were incidents in the past where Taiwanese senior officials had been denied entry into Hong Kong.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11017
Hence, to a certain extent, strengthening the liaison with Taiwan is just for implementing a political mission from the Central Authorities. But this has already been overtaken by events. At a time when the Central Authorities could not take forward political work in Taiwan, there was a role for Hong Kong to play. But at that time, Hong Kong officials were passive and dared not play this role proactively. One reason why TUNG Chee-hwa was then chosen to become the Chief Executive was that he had close connection and ties with Taiwan. But more than a decade has passed, and Hong Kong has yet to play this role effectively. What I mean is the political role, not the role of recognition. Hence, any work to be done now is basically just a waste of public funds. Let us consider the programme concerning the office in Taiwan. It has a broad range of responsibilities, including enhance liaison and communication with the Central People's Government, the provincial and municipal governments and other local authorities in the Mainland … Regarding this office set up by Hong Kong in Taiwan, how come it has the power to enhance liaison and communication between the Central People's Government, the provincial and municipal governments and other local authorities in the Mainland and relevant authorities in Taiwan? That is simply ridiculous. To say that we would help to enhance liaison between Taiwan and various provincial and municipal governments and other local authorities of the Central Government is an overstatement. We cannot even do our work properly. Do not be so self-conceited. Nowadays many channels are available for the Mainland to do such work in Taiwan, given its political and financial prowess. On the contrary, Hong Kong lacks funding, right? The amount of funding currently allocated by the Mainland authorities to undertake promotional work in Taiwan is enough to inundate Hong Kong. It is the same in Hong Kong. Clansmen associations in Hong Kong would return to the Mainland … I will stop talking about the clansmen associations. Likewise, when "689" LEUNG Chun-ying visits the Mainland, he would always receive luxurious hospitality. Hence, Hong Kong is definitely pompous to say that it has a role to play in this regard. In terms of its status, resources or connections, Hong Kong is definitely in no position to play a role.
In addition, the office is responsible for encouraging and attracting investments to Hong Kong, and promoting Hong Kong's many advantages as an investment and business hub in Asia. Unlike the past, the number of Taiwanese visitors to Hong Kong has been dwindling. Before direct links and contacts between Taiwan and the Mainland were established, Hong Kong used to have an important role to play as many goods from Taiwan must be transported to the Mainland via Hong Kong. But with the establishment of direct links between 11018 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 the two places, Hong Kong's role in this regard has disappeared, as reflected by the downward trend of Taiwanese investment and economic activities in Hong Kong in recent years. Hence, it is just a waste of public money to promote Taiwanese investment and businesses in Hong Kong. Later on, I will provide more supplementary information on other aspects. Thank you, Chairman.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Is Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung present?
(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung stood up)
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Mr WONG Yuk-man says he wants to speak first.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please move slightly the picture you display because I cannot see whether you are present or not.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Okay, done.
MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I will continue to speak on my proposed Amendment Nos 14, 17 and 38 concerning the funding provision in respect of subhead 000 under Head 21 ― the Chief Executive's Office. I will not read out the contents. Chairman, please read them if you want to. This is the second time I speak.
When I spoke for the first time, I had elaborated on the various charges of the Chief Executive …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WONG, this is the third time you speak in this joint debate.
MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): Pardon me.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11019
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): This is the third time you speak in this joint debate.
MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): What? Is this the third joint debate? Has the Council finished with the second joint debate already?
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Council is now having the second joint debate, but this is the third time you speak.
MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): Is this the third time already? Chairman, you have a better memory than I do.
My discussion about the funding provision in respect of subhead 000 under Head 21 ― the Chief Executive's Office will focus on the Chief Executive's emolument and benefits, which includes deducting the estimated expenditure for the emoluments of the staff responsible for domestic services for the Chief Executive's official residences and the relevant expenses for a full year. In my last speech, I have explained some of the reasons from two perspectives. Firstly, while he is all courteous and cautious before his masters in the Chinese Communist Party, he is always arrogant and conceited before Hong Kong people. Secondly, concerning the Individual Visit Scheme (IVS), he always claims to be the mastermind of the IVS, but the IVS has eventually brought many painful experiences for Hong Kong people. It is well evident that the IVS has also created the so-called Mainland-Hong Kong conflicts. As a result, even ZHANG Dejiang, Chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress, must take the initiative and ask the Mainland authorities to study Hong Kong's capacity to receive Mainland visitors.
Given that ZHANG Dejiang is the master, and the master has instructed that a study be conducted on whether Hong Kong is capable of receiving so many Mainland visitors, LEUNG Chun-ying said immediately afterwards that the Hong Kong Government has attached great importance to this matter. Given the relatively rapid increase in the number of Mainland visitors in recent years, local residents in many districts have complained that the influx of Mainland visitors have affected their livelihood, including public transport and the supply of daily necessities. In response, LEUNG Chun-ying said that the Government will adopt measures to adjust the growth in visitor arrivals and the composition of 11020 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 visitors. Once the master changes the tune, LEUNG Chun-ying dances to it immediately. This proves that "689" only cares about flattering his masters or second-guessing their intentions, and he has no qualms about neglecting the rights and interests of Hong Kong people.
Separately, from the policy perspective, we should all take note of his policy on "Hong Kong property for Hong Kong residents". When running for the so-called coterie election of the Chief Executive, LEUNG had once chanted the appealing slogan of "Hong Kong property for Hong Kong residents" in order to win the support of those Hong Kong people who aspired for home ownership but were gravely concerned about the escalating property prices as a result of speculation by Mainlanders. But after he had "stolen" the post, he has just incorporated the provision of "Hong Kong property for Hong Kong residents" in two sites, responding perfunctorily to the legitimate expectation of Hong Kong people.
On 1 April, a front page news article in Sing Tao Daily reported that the "Hong Kong property for Hong Kong residents" policy has been shelved silently. After the Executive Council's regular meeting in the morning on that day, LEUNG Chun-ying took the initiative to speak to reporters. Responding to the article, he said that when the "Hong Kong property for Hong Kong people" policy was first introduced, he had already made it clear that it was just a pilot scheme implemented when the property market was over-heated. Since the introduction of the "double curbs" measures, the property market was no longer in an over-heated state, and the Government would continue to monitor market development. How come a policy having such a profound impact on the local property market was just implemented perfunctorily and then halted silently? The whole process is merely a trick to deceive Hong Kong people and fool the general public. Regarding such a major policy decision, he should have given a clear and detailed account to Hong Kong people so that the public can take the news in their stride. From the perspective of political spinning, TUNG Chee-hwa's "85 000" housing target and LEUNG Chun-ying's "Hong Kong property for Hong Kong residents" are both examples of policies being non-existent if not mentioned anymore. Clearly, they are nightmares in respect of public relations. The former is a case of evasive tactic for the sake of self-preservation, while the latter is a case of managing public expectations by deceptive means, avoiding doing harm to Mainlanders and property developers on the one hand, and maintaining Hong Kong people's good impression on the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11021
"Hong Kong property for Hong Kong residents" policy as well as the SAR Government on the other. The intention is vicious indeed.
(THE CHAIRMAN'S DEPUTY, MR ANDREW LEUNG, took the Chair)
Apart from the policy of "Hong Kong property for Hong Kong residents", we are also gravely concerned about the issuance of domestic free television programme services licences (free TV licences). The imminent issues are the renewal of free TV licences of Asia Television Limited and Television Broadcasts Limited. Earlier, the public have expressed their hope for more choices. Having been the Chairman of the Panel on Information Technology and Broadcasting for three years, I am well-versed with the licensing system of free TV licences. The Government's refusal to grant a free TV licence to Hong Kong Television Network Limited has created an uproar in society, for the decision was made under the table without any regard to procedural justice. In face of public queries, LEUNG Chun-ying used the confidentiality system of the Executive Council as a shield. He spoke in a strong tone when responding to queries and his self-conceited countenance had created great public outcry and resentment. Refusing to take the brunt, some Members of the Executive Council of the former Governments, including Allen LEE, Selina CHOW and Joseph WONG denounced the SAR Government's act as betraying people's aspiration. Moreover, they pointed out that the confidentiality system was meant to safeguard against the disclosure of the stance of individual Members of the Executive Council, rather than an excuse manipulated by the Government to refuse giving explanation to the public on its major policy decisions. Allen LEE even stated frankly that he believed that there were certain political motives behind the Government's decision for it departed completely from people's aspiration. Anson CHAN, former Chief Secretary for Administration, even issued a statement saying that the Government's act had aroused public skepticism that the decision was politically-motivated and had deprived the public's right to know.
There is no way for Hong Kong people to exert pressures on the Government through public opinion or politically through their votes and referendums. Under the so-called autocratic executive-led system, the Government has become more or less "lawless". When making important policy decisions, the Government can of course act arbitrarily. LEUNG Chun-ying can 11022 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 even hide behind the confidentiality system and avoid his responsibility of being publicly accountable in respect of this policy decision. A precedent for the Executive Council to cover up its sins has been set. It is common knowledge that people have the right to know and the Government has the obligation to inform. Yet the Government has acted on the contrary by locking up the free TV market and blocking Hong Kong people's free access to information. It has gradually become a dictatorial autocracy.
Separately, I would like to talk about the incident involving teacher Alpais LAM Wai-sze. When responding to questions raised by parents at a district forum on 11 August last year, LEUNG Chun-ying said that the Government could not turn a blind eye to the wide concern in society concerning the use of vulgar language by teachers as well as the related questions. As the case was related to the education system, he had asked Secretary for Education Eddie NG for a report on the incident. After the incident, Ms LAM had suffered from endless nuisance and harassment attacks from "scoundrel organizations" of indigenous communists. In the worst case, they even staged protests outside her school and harassed the primary students for the sake of putting pressure on the school management. As birds of a feather flock together, LEUNG Chun-ying joined in the conspiracy of the "scoundrel organizations" of indigenous communists and took action to perpetuate political persecution against this defenseless secondary school teacher. Feeling indignant by the injustice, I rallied thousands of people on a Sunday in August to besiege these "scoundrel organizations" of indigenous communists, causing them to flee haplessly. On the same day, "689" criticized members of political parties for filing reports to the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) against Franklin LAM for jumping the gun when disposing his properties, claiming that he would never allow ICAC to become a tool of political persecution. He also said that another allegation against Barry CHEUNG about obtaining low-interest loans from property developers was eventually proved to be unfounded, yet nobody ever offered any public or private apology to LAM and CHEUNG. Where are they now? While Franklin LAM is doing alright and Barry CHEUNG still not behind bars, CHEUNG is debt-ridden, the finance companies are going after him to collect the debts, and the Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange went into liquidation. Buddy, these are all scandals involving LEUNG's underlings. How can he be accountable to the public? Hong Kong's clean and efficient governance has been destroyed by LEUNG Chun-ying and his likes.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11023
At the meeting of the Panel on Security yesterday, we discussed a ridiculous case involving the ICAC recently. Charley SONG Lin, a former Chairman of ICAC's Ethics Development Advisory Committee (EDAC) and Chairman of China Resources group, is now under detention and interrogation in the Mainland for corruption allegations. Isn't it ridiculous for the ICAC to appoint a corrupt boss of a Chinese enterprise as the Chairman of its EDAC? As far as I am concerned, the ICAC can be done away with. Hadn't it heard about Charley SONG's sumptuous banquets at the headquarters of China Resources group where red wines costing more than $100,000 a bottle were served? How can such a person be the Chairman of ICAC's EDAC? The explanation subsequently provided by the Administration is even more ridiculous, saying that member chambers of the EDAC would take turns to be the Chairman. What an explanation!
With the successive cases of "covetous TONG" and Charley SONG, the ICAC's reputation has been severely tarnished. The ICAC is formidable in investigating complaints concerning candidates omitting to report election expenses of $50, or complaints lodged by fellow party members about failing to declare or forgetting to declare interests. As investigation into those cases can easily drag on for more than two years, it is just a waste of time and effort. But when it comes to the incidents I mentioned just now, the ICAC just turns a blind eye and dares not take action against "covetous TONG" and "covetous TSANG". The ICAC might as well be disbanded, don't you think so? When those at the top like to do this kind of thing, those below will love to do it all the more. There is no way that LEUNG Chun-ying can absolve himself of the blame of bringing the practices of corruption into Hong Kong, and "disseminating his wickedness among the public".
Speaking of this guy, Deputy Chairman, I do not want to be overly rude. He is an archetype for using lackeys as talents and talents as lackeys. I think that back in school, we have all learnt about Mencius' teaching of "The Four Principles". As the Chief Executive, LEUNG is the leader … Mencius was actually a man with kind motivations as he held that human nature was good, but Xunzi later held that human nature was evil. Is human nature good or evil? I think "689" can serve as a good example because any person who has offended him would surely be doomed. Last time, I said something good about KO Wing-man. Really, he should pray that his popularity rating would not be so high for I can surely tell him that it would be very dangerous for him to be more 11024 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 popular than LEUNG Chun-ying. If I praise him, he would become more vulnerable. Hence, I have decided that I would not praise him anymore.
According to Mencius, the four principles of human beings are benevolence, righteousness, propriety and knowledge. The meaning is quite simple. He held that the feeling of commiseration belongs to all men; so does that of shame and dislike; and that of modesty and complaisance ― or also known as the feeling of reverence and respect; and that of approving and disapproving1. As a leader, a person must have the feeling of commiseration and sympathize with the disadvantaged. Some elders have kneeled before the Secretary for Labour and Welfare, pleading him not to demolish their elderly home … In the first oral question I raised after I became a Member, I asked Matthew CHEUNG how many elders had unfortunately died while waiting for subsidized places in nursing home and care-and-attention homes for the elderly. At first, he replied that there was none, and then he said that there were some 3 000 elders. At present, the number has increased to more than 5 000.
According to Mencius, the first principle is the feeling of commiseration. The Government is now planning to demolish the Shek Tsai Leng Elderly Village, and some elders have kneeled before the Secretary. That is a case of a complete lack of commiseration. According to Mencius, no man should be without the feeling of commiseration. The second principle is the feeling of shame and dislike. LEUNG has no sense of shame for his many evil deeds. The feeling of shame and dislike starts with knowing what is meant by shame. According to Mencius, as LEUNG Chun-ying "689" does not have any feeling of shame and dislike, he is not a human being. The third principle is the feeling of modesty and complaisance, also known as the feeling of reverence and respect. In other words, as a leader, he should revere and respect the elderly while striving to help the underprivileged and assist the disadvantaged. According to Mencius, no man should be without the feeling of modesty and complaisance. Lastly, the fourth principle is the feeling of approving and disapproving. Buddy, how can he have any feeling of approving and disapproving if he has surrounded himself with scums and scoundrels like Andrew FUNG, Barry CHEUNG and Franklin LAM? According to Mencius, no man should be without the feeling of approving and disapproving.
1 Reference from
According to Mencius, the feelings of commiseration, shame and dislike, modesty and complaisance, as well as approving and disapproving are essential to man for they are respectively the principles of benevolence, righteousness, propriety and knowledge. But this person or even the whole government has gone to the other extreme and does not have any of these four principles at all. Hence, how can we support the financial provision for the expenditure of the Chief Executive's Office (CEO)? How can we support the financial provision for the emolument of the Chief Executive?
The aforesaid are some fundamental principles of governance, and there is a meaning behind. Being the leader of a region, he should of course be people-based. The principles of benevolence, righteousness, propriety and knowledge I mentioned just now are essential to the ruling of Hong Kong. Simply put, humanity should always come first in the Government's administration. One of the most important factors leading to social instability is the widening gap between the rich and the poor. Owing to the presence of many injustices, society cannot remain stable. Executive hegemony or draconian rule can never attain social stability, instead, the Government should ensure that the well-being of people from all walks of life are safeguarded and they can live in peace, and the policies adopted should be conducive to long-term social harmony and political stability. Moreover, the leader has an important role to play, regardless of whether he is elected by the people. But LEUNG Chun-ying does not even possess some basic requirements.
There are still many evil deeds done by LEUNG Chun-ying. Just now, the Chairman reminded me that I have already spoken three times in this debate, and this is the fourth time. Even if I speak one more time, there is still insufficient time to cover such misdeeds. Some people say that he is always on leave. Where is he now? We do not see him often. I have done a rough count. The last Chief Executive "covetous TSANG" was on leave 48 times during his seven years in office, with a total of 89.5 leave days. As for the incumbent Chief Executive, he was on leave for almost 30 days with less than two years in office. He is a typical "off-shore Chief Executive", and the Chief Secretary has to act up as the Chief Executive during his absence. On those occasions, she would always talk nonsense. Hence, Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung has proposed an amendment to deduct her emolument.
Deputy Chairman, I will stop for now and hand over to Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung.
11026 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, just now, Mr WONG Yuk-man evaluated the Chief Executive according to Mencius' teaching of "The Four Principles". Instead I will focus on the performance of John TSANG. As an old Chinese saying goes, "His misdemeanours are too numerous to inscribe on all bamboo strips." Let me give a simple example. In the Budget speech, he talked about the need to establish a "Future Fund". Of course, even if we approve the Budget, it does not mean that we approve all his proposals. But if the Budget is passed and there are grey areas in his proposals, the Government would say in future that his proposals had the endorsement of the Council. Hence, I must talk about the "Future Fund".
As I said in my last speech, the future of our elderly population is a practical problem. In other words, no matter by what standard of measurement, one third of the elderly population are living in poverty, and the ratio is likely to increase gradually to 50%. This is indeed a very practical problem. When we return home after this meeting today, the number of elders living in poverty will increase tomorrow. This is the major trend. Interestingly, in page 53 of his Budget speech under the section on "Public Finances", the Financial Secretary has the following to say in a paragraph under the heading "Saving for the Future" (and I quote), "Our fiscal reserves currently stand at over $700 billion. Of this amount, $220 billion is the balance of the Land Fund and $130 billion is held in funds with designated uses. Only the remaining $400 billion or so, held in the General Revenue Account, may be flexibly deployed to meet the day-to-day operation of Government. We can consider setting up a savings scheme to prepare for the future having regard to the experience of other economies. One example is the setting up of a 'Future Fund' comprising the Land Fund and a portion of future surpluses. Government may draw on this contingency fund in the event of sustained budget deficit to finance strategic infrastructure projects conducive to Hong Kong's future economic development."
Our Financial Secretary is really a pathological liar because I once asked him, "Financial Secretary, what infrastructure projects are you referring to?" He replied, "Mr LEUNG, they include hospitals and schools." Actually, he was lying. For infrastructure projects such as hospitals and schools to be funded by the recurrent expenditure of the Government, the applications for funding provision would be made by the relevant Policy Bureaux. Take for example the construction of a hospital, the expenditure incurred would be charged to the financial provision of the relevant Bureau. Then what actually are the "strategic infrastructure projects" he is referring to? Those are white elephant LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11027 infrastructure projects which cannot bring us any benefits, such as the Express Rail Link. Hence, I have been taken in by him. After I went home, I reflected on his question: "Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, why do you raise objection? There is no reason to oppose the construction of hospitals and schools." In fact, he has played a trick by calling black white.
Today, I confront him with this question: If the infrastructure projects he is referring to are funded by the General Revenue Account, why is there a need for savings? Actually his statements are twisted. Facilities such as hospitals, public rental housing, schools and community halls are all funded by the Government's general revenue. But somehow he has dreamed about Hong Kong's ageing population which necessitates the increasing provision of such facilities, and in his view, elders are burdens to society for they are not productive, resulting in the year-on-year decrease of our GDP. If there is a continued need to build hospitals and schools, and the funds still come from the General Revenue Account, the source of funding for those white elephant projects would be depleted. Hence, he said that we should set aside certain funds for the implementation of those white elephant projects.
Buddy, he has mentioned nothing about these facts in paragraph 143, that is, the paragraph I quoted just now. He just said that a "Future Fund" should be set up. Surely, he later … He is a tricky fellow. While giving no detail in the Budget, he held a press conference immediately after the delivery of the Budget and announced that he had appointed a Working Group on Long-Term Fiscal Planning. That is his trick. He mentioned nothing in the Budget. After he delivered the Budget and I hurled stuff at him, he dug out the report of the Working Group on Long-Term Fiscal Planning. Buddy, that report does not need our endorsement. We have been taken in by him. If we pass the Budget, the paragraph under the heading "Saving for the Future" would also be passed, and he would say that the whole Budget has been passed by the Council. If I say, "Financial Secretary, can you take out paragraph 143? If not, I will not pass the Budget." He would say that "Long Hair" is getting in the way because that is just a short paragraph, why is there the need to take it out? Deputy Chairman, why do I suggest that his emolument should be withheld? As Mr WONG Yuk-man has just said, a man without the feeling of approving and disapproving is without knowledge for he has confounded right and wrong.
By the way, our Financial Secretary is a man with little general knowledge. He once posted an article on his blog with the title "Let's implement universal 11028 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 suffrage together". Do Members know which date he chose to publish the said blog post? The date was 4 May; it was the 85th anniversary of the May Fourth Movement. The May Fourth Movement was about adopting Western ideas of democracy and science. In two paragraphs of his blog article, he presented a vague argument about the relationship between the economy and democracy, saying that, "From the outset, there is an inseparable relationship between politics and economics. In a country with mature democratic development, election results always depend on the economy. With a high unemployment rate amid an economic downturn, people's propensity for change will act to the disadvantage of the ruling party. Even without any quick fix, the opposition will always have an upper hand. On the contrary, in times of economic prosperity, even without any significant achievement, the ruling party will always win another term of office."
I want to point out here the fallacy of his analogies. According to the Basic Law, we have yet to have universal suffrage. Let us put aside the question of whether genuine universal suffrage will be implemented for the 2017 election for the time being. As we are now embarking on the road to universal suffrage in an orderly and progressive manner, why then should he use a country with mature democratic development as an example? What is his meaning? This is just as meaningless as we look at the same thing, while I say it is an egg, he says it is a rock. In the next paragraph, he made a sharp turn and said that: "By the same token, politics is also critical to economics. If society is politically unstable with governments changing successively and incessant struggle among political parties, talents and investment would naturally be deterred, resulting in a lack of momentum for economic growth. Hence, political stability will impact directly on the government's effective governance, as well as the operating and investment environment. Around the world, many creditable surveys on competitiveness would take into account factors like the political environment and the government's governance effectiveness of a place." While these views are all correct, how are they related to Hong Kong?
What is his underlying meaning? It turns out that he has reserved the last blow on me. He said: "The developments in recent months have somewhat caught me by surprise. Considering the actions taken by some representatives of public opinion, one cannot help but doubt that their extreme positions are not taken for the sake of bargaining, but that they are determined to stand firm and unyielding, or even …"
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11029
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, let me remind you that you should speak on the services and policies concerning the deductions proposed in the amendments.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Yes, I am seeking to deduct the Financial Secretary's …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): You should concentrate on the policies under his purview, rather than his remarks.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): As I want to deduct his salary, what else should I talk about if not his performance? If the proposal is to deduct the salaries of the entire office, I should of course talk about the policies. But the present proposal is to deduct his salary, rather than the salaries of other persons. The subject that I am discussing is not the total expenditure for the Financial Secretary's Office, but just his personal salary. Surely I should talk about him. How can other people take responsibility on his behalf? This is logical. If I talk about deducting the expenditure for the entire office, you can query how the expenditure for the entire office is related to him. I think that is … Okay, I respect you. Your advice is good, however … I will just revert to the Financial Secretary's Office.
If you say that the Financial Secretary is only carrying out his responsibility duly, then can he give a better performance? Why should he resort to attacking Members? What is the basis of his judgment that some people's extreme positions are not taken for the sake of bargaining, but that they are determined to stand firm and unyielding? I have objective facts to prove my point. Last year, I spent a long time presenting my views in this Council, the President summoned all of us to a meeting ― Deputy Chairman, you were also present at that meeting as you were the Chairman of the House Committee ― and sought our views on how to deal with the situation. As I specifically requested an audio recording of the meeting, all Members said that they could not make any endorsement for the Government. If the Government was out of its depth, the President should write to the Financial Secretary and ask him to approach the Members concerned because as the saying goes, "Every wrong has its cause, every debt has its debtors".
11030 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Deputy Chairman, as the saying goes, "After taking pig's blood, one will discharge black excrement". That was what happened last year. Then would he take this step this year? Even the most incompetent officials can follow the established rules, and he owes us an explanation as to why he has not followed last year's practice, but said from the outset that some Members were not willing to hold discussion. Isn't that right? Has he carried out his responsibility duly? This the Financial Secretary then went on to say that ― regarding the problems with Carrie LAM, I will discuss them in other debates ― the Government would have the problem of fiscal cliff. For example, without funding provision, the Hospital Authority has to take out the principal of its fixed deposit to sustain its operation and consequently, it will lose $1 million in interest payments. How can he make such statement?
Deputy Chairman, there are laws in Hong Kong. According to the laws of Hong Kong, in case the Budget is not passed, the Financial Secretary can apply to the Legislative Council for a suitable and proportionate amount of funding at any time. There is no reason why this Council would not pass the funding. Some people may say, "'Hair', as you are one of the instigators of the filibuster, you will surely oppose the funding application." In that case, let me remind John TSANG that he should not regard Hong Kong people as fools because motions presented by the Government to the Legislative Council can, firstly, be given top priority; and secondly, even if Members of the pan-democratic camp vote against the funding application unanimously, there are only 27 votes while 43 supporting votes will come from Members sitting on that side of the Chamber.
In other words, he really has a "rubber stamp" and can get the necessary provisions in case the Government has any financial difficulty. Nonetheless, this Financial Secretary just jumped to his own political conclusions and refused to perform his proper duty. Instead, he threatened the elders with lies. He claimed that some elders would starve if the provisions were not approved. What would happen if some elders were scared to death? Has he tried his best? Has he exhausted every means? Not only has he done nothing of this kind, he just resorts to bluffing and empty threats. My present proposal is to deduct his emolument. He has failed on account of this matter alone. Moreover, he has no feeling of commiseration or reverence. What is meant by the principle of "people-based"? According to Mencius, being "people-based" means that even if a government is not formed through elections, it should work to bring benefits for the people. In other words, even if a government is not "by the people", it should be "of the people".
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11031
If he intends to implement policies, he should implement benevolent policies. Even if I, "Long Hair", were a sinner beyond redemption and condemned to eternal hell, he should guide me onto the right track. Even though there is no way to change the course of events, he should not make innocent people suffer just because of one sinner, not to mention he threatens people before they actually suffer. What kind of person is he? He is a man without any feelings of modesty and complaisance, commiseration, as well as approving and disapproving. He does not have any principles of benevolence, righteousness, propriety and knowledge. Don't you agree that it is right to deduct his emolument?
I now challenge him: Does he want to discuss the matter with us? Does he want to discuss with the President of the Legislative Council? Does he want to follow the footstep of Carrie LAM and lecture the President of the Legislative Council on what should and should not be done, instead of having a discussion? Should John TSANG want to order us around on how to conduct our meetings at the Legislative Council, he should run for the election as a Member of the Legislative Council and then run for the post of the President. In that case, he would have such a power. Otherwise, he can go home and get some sleep, or eat some dog biscuits with French coffee. Financial Secretary, let me tell you, do not act like the Chinese historical figure, SIMA Yi (司馬懿), who refused to come out and fight even when his opponent sent him a set of female clothing.
John TSANG, I am scolding you. Show up and answer me.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please speak.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman …
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I request a headcount.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
11032 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please speak.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, in this session, I will first speak on Amendment Nos 729 and 730 proposed by Mr Albert CHAN and Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung respectively to deduct $3,750,000, which is roughly equivalent to the estimated expenditure for the annual emolument of the Chief Secretary for Administration. Actually, there is another option in this set of amendments, which is Amendment No 737 proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung to deduct $1,875,000, which is roughly equivalent to the estimated expenditure for six months' emoluments of the Chief Secretary. In other words, after listening to my speech, Members can opt for the deduction of one year's or half months' emolument.
Some people think that among all principal officials under the accountability system, Chief Secretary Carrie LAM is one of the best in terms of her performance; and among the three Secretaries of Departments, she has the highest net approval rate. According to the findings of the public opinion survey conducted under the Public Opinion Programme of the University of Hong Kong released yesterday, she has a net approval rate of +48%; John TSANG, the Financial Secretary, +32% and Rimsky YUEN, the Secretary for Justice, +12%. If popularity rate is one of the indicators in judging a government official's competence, though Carrie LAM did not score the highest mark among all accountability officials, she has the highest scores among the three Secretaries of Departments. Such being the case, should her emolument be deducted? I wish to point out a principle, that is, the work of the Chief Secretary is mainly to assist the Chief Executive in implementing his policy blueprint. The latest net approval rate of LEUNG Chun-ying is -27%. Actually, among all principal officials of a government, if the Chief Executive has the lowest scores while the Chief Secretary under him has the highest approval rate, that does not mean the Chief Secretary is very competent, rather it reflects that the Chief Secretary fails to assist the Chief Executive, which is a pathologic phenomenon. Since the Chief Secretary is so competent, she should take the place of the Chief Executive; if not, from the perspective of her power and function, it is a dereliction of duty on her part as she fails to assist the Chief Executive in attaining better governance and higher popularity.
I have just briefly described the three main tasks of the Chief Secretary in this year so that Members can, based on her performance in these areas, decide LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11033 whether or not to support the motion of deducting her emolument. The first task is poverty alleviation. The last point I mentioned just now was that the meetings of the Commission on Poverty (CoP) were closed to everyone. Even though the Subcommittee on Poverty of the Legislative Council only asked for the agenda of the CoP but not the record of its meetings, the CoP chaired by the Chief Secretary refused. That is absurd because several members of the Subcommittee on Poverty are also members of the CoP and they have the agenda. When we made an official request, however, our request was flatly rejected by the CoP. Concerning the success and failure of the poverty alleviation policy, I will give detailed comments later on.
Her second major task is the population policy. Carrie LAM pointed out that the Chief Executive pledged to formulate a population policy in his election manifesto. Hong Kong has never had a population policy before. The Steering Committee on Population Policy was restructured in December 2012, and in October 2013, it commenced a four-month public consultation on the policy strategies to deal with our future demographic challenges. The consultation is now over but members of the people still have no idea about the population policy in Hong Kong or the policy proposed by the Government. The Government also gives us the impression that it starts off with a bang but ends up with a whimper. Carrie LAM has commenced the work in various areas, including poverty alleviation and the population policy, and she is now busy preparing to undertake the third task, that is the constitutional development which I will talk about later on.
Here I would like to remind Members that although Carrie LAM was known to be a "good fighter" when she was the Secretary for Development before taking up the post of the Chief Secretary, there were precedents that she started off with a bang but ended up with a whimper. Let me cite one or two examples and one cannot deny my allegation. In dealing with the unauthorized building works in the New Territories, did she not start well but finish badly? "Uncle Fat" is present here. He also knows that how invincible the Chief Executive was in her words, but in the face of political reality and the objective social reality, she took no further actions. Therefore, Members will have to measure the Chief Secretary's performance with this yardstick.
The third major task is constitutional development. Carrie LAM states, "On its mission to take forward Hong Kong's constitutional development, the SAR Government is committed to implementing universal suffrage for the 2017 11034 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Chief Executive election in accordance with the Basic Law and the relevant interpretation and decisions of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress." The Task Force on Constitutional Development (Task Force) led by Chief Secretary Carrie LAM was formed in October last year and in December of the same year, it officially carried out the public consultation on the method for forming the Legislative Council in 2016 and the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017. The Task Force promises that it will listen to the views from all sectors of the community with an open and inclusive attitude as it presses on with its work in accordance with the "five-step mechanism" of constitutional development.
Next, I will comment on Carries LAM's dereliction of duty in respect of the three major tasks mentioned above. I hope that colleagues will support my proposal to deduct the provision for her emolument. First, it is poverty alleviation. Hong Kong has a serious poverty problem and what attracts wide criticism is the extremely wide gap between the rich and the poor. The problem is not just about a large number of poor people but the vast wealth disparity. The SAR Government set up the CoP and set a poverty line in order to quantify the poverty-stricken population and formulate the poverty policy. However, as the poverty line is drawn at half of the median household income, poverty is a relative problem by definition, meaning that we will always have poor people. The Government has also stated at the outset that it has neither the commitment nor the intention to eliminate poverty. This is why Members criticize Mrs Carrie LAM that though she claims to alleviate poverty, she simply has no desire to eliminate poverty. She declares defeat even before the battle.
In respect of the poverty or wealth disparity problem, it is necessary to narrow the gap so as to address the problem. Apart from helping the poor, there are some other means, such as "restricting the rich". How can this be done? Let me cite a simple example. In Switzerland, a 1:12 scheme is proposed, under which the wage earned by the highest-paid employee cannot be over 12 times higher than that earned by the lowest-paid employee in the same company. Of course, I believe that people from the business sector will strongly oppose this idea and they will put forward all kinds of arguments, such as driving investors away and eventually pushing up the unemployment rate. Of course, according to the referendum conducted in Switzerland, the majority of the people opposed the proposal, with 65.3% against it and 34.7% for it. Nevertheless, to tackle the problem of wealth disparity, the Government cannot just think of one way only. I am not promoting the policy of "restricting the rich" like setting the maximum LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11035 wage, but I think we have to find some other solutions. Let me point out the greatest blunders made by the SAR Government or Chief Secretary Carrie LAM in implementing the poverty alleviation policy in the past, resulting in our request for deducting her emolument.
Actually, since LEUNG Chun-ying assumed office, he has introduced some so-called benevolent policies or poverty alleviation policies which incur huge expenditure, including the Old Age Living Allowance (OALA) implemented last year and the Low-income Working Family Allowance (LIFA) this year. When we first learnt about such policies, they sounded great. However, the meaning of the OALA was distorted as soon as it was launched. Eventually, the OALA, which was originally a subsidy introduced out of our respect and support for the aged, has turned into a welfare payment, which will be subject to a harsh means test and a complicated declaration procedure. The OALA had aroused great controversy in this Council and Members even staged a filibuster at the meeting of the Finance Committee. Supposedly, this should be a benevolent policy, but how come it ended up losing public support? At present, many elders are frightened to apply, and those who have applied fear that they will be arrested for failing to provide accurate information. Although no such cases have happened, many elders told me that they dare not apply or they fail to make a correct declaration as they do not know the amount of assets owned by their spouse.
The incident mentioned above happened last year. This year, the Government launched the LIFA, which has also drawn many complaints upon its introduction. What attracts the most criticisms is the "208" requirement, stipulating that the breadwinner of a household must work at least 208 hours a month to be qualified for full grant. The requirement is not only harsh but also contradictory to the Government's family-friendly policy. When a person works 208 hours a month, how can he take proper care of his family? Another point that attracts criticism is that "an individual" cannot apply. Is "one person" a household? This point has long been a dispute. The Government later said that was not its intention. Its intention was to address the problem of inter-generational poverty through this measure and to grant each child $800. The policy changed again afterwards. It is very confusing. In the end, couples with no children can also apply. In that case, the Government should not tell us when responding to our question that the original design of the policy was to address inter-generational poverty.
11036 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
From this we can see that the Government's poverty alleviation policies are contradictory and various barriers have been imposed. As a result, a benevolent policy turns out to be a vicious policy. For example, the policy stipulates that a couple cannot add up their working hours to meet the working hour requirement. This is completely mind-boggling. We do not understand why the assets of the husband and wife can be counted together in the calculation of their income but the same rule does not apply to their working hours. The Government subsequent explained that this would distort the labour market. That is to say, if the husband and wife accurately calculate their working hours to be eligible for the allowance, they may work fewer hours, hence affecting the supply of labour in the labour market.
The blunders of the poverty alleviation policy mentioned above are reasons for the deduction of the emolument. Recently, Chief Secretary Carrie LAM told the public that if Members filibuster at the meetings of the Finance Committee to scrutinize the controversial funding application relating to the first stage works in the North East New Territories, the poverty alleviation measure of LIFA may not be able to be introduced next year. This is another reflection of Carrie LAM's dereliction of duty. As the Chief Secretary, her duties include alleviation of poverty and at the same time, she should also co-ordinate the problems of various Policy Bureaux. If she considers that this poverty alleviation policy should be accorded the highest priority, she should co-ordinate with other bureaux and asks the Secretary for Development, Paul CHAN, to withdraw the funding application for the first stage works in the North East New Territories, so as to make way for LIFA. I believe the Government, especially the Chief Secretary, is duty-bound to do so. She should take the initiative to co-ordinate various Policy Bureaux, and should not passively turn a blind eye to the problem, or make frightening statements to scare people, telling them that if the motion cannot be passed, nothing can be done and the measure cannot be introduced early next year. Therefore, this is also dereliction of duty on her part and that is the reason why I support the deduction of her emolument.
I can speak on the poverty alleviation policy for a long time but I will leave it aside for the time being and talk about the population policy, which is the second task of Carrie LAM. Again the authorities claim that they are sincere in tackling the problem of an ageing population. But what is the reality? The reality is that the Mainland prevails over everything. Since they do not want to see any elders in Hong Kong, the best way is to send them all to the Mainland. This has been the impression given to us by the Government all along or in this LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11037 year. For example, if there is a lack of university places in Hong Kong, students can enrol in universities in the Mainland; if the business environment in Hong Kong is unfavourable, people can move northward to start up business; if national education cannot be implemented in Hong Kong, study tours to the Mainland can be organized; if the elders have no one to care for them in Hong Kong and are not allocated a place in the residential care homes before they die, move northward to seek a solution.
Since these are policy conflicts among the bureaux, should the Chief Secretary's emolument be deducted? What is our present welfare policy and elderly policy? It is still "ageing in place as the core, institutional care as back up". She is now telling people to go to the Mainland for matters concerning birth, ageing, death and burial. Is this her population policy? In a word, the so-called population policy is not a population policy. If Members have read the policy document and paid attention to the Government's remarks in promoting the population policy, they will find that it is a policy for labour importation instead. Therefore, the Legislative Council Members representing trade unions have to closely monitor these population policies or they should support this "not so harsh" amendment of ours to deduct six months' emolument of Carrie LAM, so as to remind her to be careful and not to import foreign labour by disguising it as the population policy. She should not claim that in the face of labour shortage in the short run and the large number of works projects, importation of labour is necessary. In respect of this, we know that Members of the pro-establishment camp who are concerned about labour benefits are also keeping a close watch of the situation.
I have talked about the population policy and the poverty alleviation policy. As regards the issue of constitutional reform, I will talk about it in the next session.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, just now I talked about the policy blunders of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau and how it uses public funds, which is basically a waste of public funds. Hence, I agree that the provisions for the annual emoluments for the Secretary and the staff of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau should be slashed.
11038 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
I have already talked about Programme (2) and now I will speak on Programme (3) which is mainly about the work of the Mainland and Taiwan Offices who employ a total of 70 staff. Among the five Programmes concerning the Bureau, Programme (3) involves the second highest number of staff. As I have said just now, the responsibilities of the Mainland and Taiwan Offices are to enhance the liaison with the Central People's Government, the provincial and municipal governments in the Mainland and relevant authorities in Taiwan. I have also pointed out that in respect of the liaison with Taiwan authorities, Hong Kong government officials, especially senior officials, are negative assets in the eyes of the many political parties and officials in Taiwan.
If Members can recall, many years ago when the President of Taiwan was taken up by someone belonging to the Kuomintang, one senior Kuomintang member was refused entry into Hong Kong. This incident had left an extremely negative impression on the Taiwan people and they had bad impression of the Hong Kong government officials. I visit Taiwan almost every year, though less frequently in the past two years. Since the late 1980s, whenever there was a presidential election, election of the Legislative Yuan and election of the Mayor of Taipei, we went to Taiwan to observe and learn about their election system and their policies. In particular, more than a decade ago when Taipei promoted the waste recycling programme, we went there to witness the whole process from the preparation of the programme to its successful implementation. When CHEN Shui-bian ran for the Legislative Yuan membership for the first time, I was also there to support him and attend his street assembly.
Deputy Chairman, speaking of Taiwan, the gap between Taiwan and Hong Kong is widening, in particular in the areas of culture, people's livelihood and environmental protection. Taiwan's achievement in environmental protection is even getting further and further ahead of us. But 20 years ago, Hong Kong was more advanced than Taiwan in many aspects …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, how is the gap between Taiwan and Hong Kong related to your request for reducing the expenditure?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, the two are related. In Taiwan, people consider that it is less and less worthy to liaise with Hong Kong. The Taiwan Office is to promote to the Taiwanese people Hong Kong's advantages but, buddy, what advantages does Hong Kong still have? Hong LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11039
Kong lags behind Taiwan in terms of the political system, human rights and also environmental protection. Deputy Chairman, let me read the following policy description, "encourage and attract investments to Hong Kong, and promote Hong Kong's many advantages as an investment and business hub in Asia". Taiwan is already considering cancelling the Cross-Straits Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement because Taiwanese people do not like to see so many people from the "strong country" going to Taiwan. Hong Kong is flooded with people from the "strong country". Are you telling the Taiwanese people to invest in Hong Kong and face these people from the "strong country"?
Recently, a Taiwanese singer has openly said that if people from the "strong country" want to go to Taiwan, they should first learn to close the toilet door when they are inside. From this we can see the demand of the Taiwanese and their outspokenness. Taiwanese people's outspokenness and boldness is beyond the understanding of Hong Kong people. They can resort to self-ignition in their fight for democracy. People dare to pour kerosene on their body and light it up to show their resentment against the Kuomintang. Taiwanese people have a doughty character. They are willing to sacrifice their immediate economic interests for their goal and personal ideals. They are not like the Chief Executives and Financial Secretaries of Hong Kong, such as "689" and his predecessor TUNG Chee-hwa who kept saying, "When China is good, Hong Kong will be good too". All they care about is making money, "whoever breastfeeds me is my mother".
Taiwanese people are not as snobbish and money-minded as Hong Kong people. Therefore, if anyone wishes to set up an office in Taiwan to promote Hong Kong's advantages, I would ask that person to look closer in the mirror and look at Hong Kong's degradation and sunken state, and the shamelessness, unscrupulousness, lack of integrity of the people of Hong Kong. Perhaps we might still be able to compare Hong Kong's degree of freedom of speech today with the situation in Taiwan 20 years ago before the ban on political parties and newspapers was lifted. Today, however, the broadcasting business in Taiwan is more robust than that of Hong Kong, is it not? The sheer number of radio, especially the underground ones, and television stations is just amazing. That is why "Ah Ngau" also visited Taiwan to learn from the Taiwanese people's tactics and methods of running an underground radio station. In Taiwan, at the peak the number of underground television stations alone was already in the hundreds. I wonder how its development has been in recent years.
11040 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Therefore, talking about advantages, Hong Kong people, the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong in particular, should organize more tours to Taiwan to learn about its advantages, rather than like a frog sitting at the bottom of the well, thinking how great our Motherland is. China only appears to be strong but is weak inside. Of course, the overall figures of its economic development seem magnificent, but, buddy, with the widening of the wealth gap, the situation in China is not so optimistic. Therefore, for those who are like frogs at the bottom of the well and who consider "anyone who breastfeeds them as their mother", they can never understand the mentality of the Taiwanese people, especially the business sector in Taiwan.
As regards providing further funding to the Taiwan Office, I have nothing against civil servants who work there, and I am not directing against the quality of individual civil servants. I just wish to point out that for the purpose of achieving certain political objectives, the Hong Kong Government thinks that it can attain some good results by hard-selling Hong Kong and high-handedly using the system and resources to set up offices in Taiwan. This may be the tactics of "689" because for "689", not mentioning something means taking no action, and something that has not been mentioned means it has been cancelled, as in the case of the "Hong Kong property for Hong Kong residents" policy, what has been said is taken as what has been done. If the setting up of offices is regarded as having the work done, without giving due consideration to the practical situation and real needs, he will never achieve the goals set in the Programme.
Basically, this is just like placing a paper doll in those offices. By placing a paper doll there and using the telephone recording system, it might just achieve the same effect. On the contrary, if the authorities can slightly change the goal and help Hong Kong residents emigrated to Taiwan to adapt to the local environment, those offices may achieve a better effect. Owing to the extremely unfavourable environment in Hong Kong, recently many Hong Kong residents wish to emigrate to Taiwan. Hence the authorities should significantly change the job nature of the Taiwan Offices in terms of their responsibilities and the Programme, and provide Hong Kong residents wishing to emigrate to Taiwan with the information and assistance needed, so that they can settle down in Taiwan smoothly. This may be more desirable and better meets the aspirations of Hong Kong people.
Moreover, one of the tasks under Programme (3) is to provide assistance to Hong Kong residents in distress in the Mainland. Strangely though, it only LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11041 states, "to provide practical assistance to Hong Kong residents in distress in the Mainland" but leaves out Taiwan. Perhaps the term "Mainland" cannot include Taiwan. Another task is to "provide information and other appropriate support to Hong Kong residents in the Mainland and Taiwan". Here it clearly states that it is to serve "Hong Kong residents in the Mainland and Taiwan" but the other task mentioned previously is only "to provide practical assistance to Hong Kong residents in distress in the Mainland" which only include the Mainland but not Taiwan.
Recently, two young women from Hong Kong completely trashed a room they rented in Taiwan and disappeared afterwards. They were put on the wanted list, arrested and finally sent to jail. Hence, Hong Kong residents may also run into trouble in Taiwan, including facing criminal charges. Why is it that the Taiwan Office needs not discharge the duty in this respect? Do the authorities believe that Hong Kong residents will never face criminal charges in Taiwan or run into the same troubles as those in the Mainland? Of course, cases happen in the Mainland are generally involved with the miscarriage of justice as corruption is just too rampant there. Therefore, does it mean that when Hong Kong residents run into trouble in Taiwan, they have no need to seek help from the Taiwan Offices? This is a rather odd arrangement which is totally illogical.
Another task is to "facilitate the application of foreign nationals in the Mainland for entry visas to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region". So, this service is not needed in Taiwan as it only mentions the Mainland. Does it mean that if foreign nationals in Taiwan wishing to apply for entry visas to Hong Kong, the Taiwan Offices will not provide any assistance to them? So, the Mainland is "superior" and it needs help in every aspect. Perhaps even going to toilet also needs to be arranged. As for other offices set up by Hong Kong in other places, although they are also within the ambit of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, they receive different treatments and have different responsibilities. From this we can see how absurd the arrangement is.
In respect of matters requiring special attention in 2014-2015, it is hard to give any favourable comments about them. The first point listed is "make preparatory work to set up liaison units in the Northern and Eastern Regions of the Mainland to strengthen the work of the Beijing Office (BJO) and the Hong Kong Economic and Trade Office (ETO) in Shanghai". However, buddy, "Long Hair" was refused entry to Shanghai. That was totally outrageous. The staff at those offices should be sacked. A Legislative Council Member invited to 11042 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Shanghai was refused entry. What had the BJO and ETO in Shanghai done about that? That was a grave humiliation to the Member. That was apparently a dereliction of duty on the part of those Offices and they should be eliminated. Therefore, we propose not to approve the provisions for those Offices. "Long Hair" also needs to declare interest as his personal resentment against those Offices is involved.
The strengthening of the work of the Offices actually provides a means to facilitate senior officials to quest for quick money after their retirement. Perhaps they may not have a successful career in Hong Kong's political arena and are thus banished to the BJO or other similar ETOs. Having worked in those offices for a few years, they would have established a personnel network. By the time they retire and having gone through the sanitization period, they can set up a consultancy firm to make a real fortune. As far as I know, one former senior official did exactly that. During his time in the BJO, he did not have any important tasks but to build up relationships. Such relationships are very useful because in any political, commercial or investment dealings, those who have good relationships and connections with people in the high echelon can get whatever he wants and make a real fortune.
These kinds of offices are mostly headed by administrative officers. After they have familiarized themselves with the working environment and the bureaucratic structure, got acquainted with more senior officials of the relevant departments and various ministers, and even people in the financial departments through their work in economic investment, they can start making real money. Hence, these offices are actually another kind of club for retired senior government officials and I believe the membership will increase in future. In the past, people used to say that the statutory organizations in Hong Kong are the clubs for retired senior government officials, but now few retired government officials would join statutory organizations because they are all "three-evil posts" where one can easily be shot down. For those who are not "LEUNG's fans" but appointed by the previous Government, they are particular vulnerable to attack by "LEUNG's fans".
If they are away from Hong Kong, they can avoid being followed by the media and tracked by the paparazzi. Therefore, with the setting up of more offices of this kind, senior civil servants would have more opportunities to be stationed in offices away from Hong Kong so they can avoid seeing "689" who is an eyesore and avoid working with "LEUNG's fans". Also, in the Mainland, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11043 they can drink Moutai, have good food, enjoy the hospitality provided by people from various provincial and municipal governments and departments, and live an easy life without being disturbed by the Hong Kong media, or being summoned to this Chamber and face the questioning of Members. Even if there is such a need, they only need to attend the Budget meetings in this Chamber, sit with the Secretaries for a few hours and answer a few questions. This only happens once a year. If no Members raise any questions, they can treat it as a vacation to Hong Kong as they need not respond to or handle any questions.
Deputy Chairman, the emolument expenditure for staff of the BJO is at $18.3 million, which is ridiculously high, and $16.5 million for the Guangzhou Office. This kind of expenditure is nothing but a waste. Therefore, to save these expenditures, these Offices should be scrapped in order to do justice to the people of Hong Kong.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, first of all I would like to have more Members in this Chamber to hear me speak. I would like to ask the Deputy Chairman to do a headcount.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, please speak.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, my speech will still focus on the emolument of Financial Secretary John TSANG.
I have a poem to ridicule him for asking why people do not eat meat porridge. Let us leave aside the question about the "Future Fund" that I just 11044 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 mentioned. Let us not talk about whether it is appropriate to set aside $220 billion and a portion of the annual surpluses in future to set up this "Future Fund", and not setting aside $50 billion to implement the universal retirement protection scheme. I will leave this issue aside for the time being and talk about this year's relief measures.
I have in hand the Budget which I think many people have already chucked. Has anyone brought the Budget to this Chamber? No. How come you do not bring your textbook to class …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, this is the 25th time you speak, please do not digress.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Yes. Will colleagues please take the Budget out and turn to the part on "Relief Measures" on page 53 and start reading from paragraph 147. Here the Financial Secretary proposes to spend $20 billion to introduce the relief measures. I will quote from the fourth line of paragraph 147, "… especially a slight slowdown in inflation, and the financial position in the current financial year. I now propose to launch five measures involving about $20 billion. Together with other measures in this Budget, the fiscal stimulus effect on GDP will be 0.7 percentage point", that is, 7 over 1 000.
In respect of the relief measures, he proposes to spend $20 billion. However, how many measures, the so-called "giveaway" measures, can really help the grassroots? They are found in items (d) and (e) on page 54 only. In item (d), I quote, "paying one month's rent for public housing tenants … This measure will involve $1 billion"; and item (e), I quote, "providing an extra allowance to Comprehensive Social Security Assistance (CSSA) recipients, equal to one month of the standard rate CSSA payments, and an extra allowance to Old Age Allowance, Old Age Living Allowance and Disability Allowance recipients, equal to one month of the allowances. This will involve an additional expenditure of $2.7 billion." The two measures incur an expenditure of $3.7 billion but the remaining measures involving $16.3 billion will not benefit the public rental housing (PRH) tenants and CSSA recipients.
The Gini Coefficient in Hong Kong is about 0.5, indicating the tremendous disparity between the rich and the poor. Items (d) and (e) of the relief measures LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11045 exactly target those needy people but there are still the "five have-nots" who cannot benefit from the measures. In such a developed place like Hong Kong, which is also a metropolitan plagued by the grave problem of wealth disparity, the Financial Secretary does not address the problem directly but takes $16.3 billion out of the huge surplus and spends it in other areas, such as reducing the salaries tax and tax under personal assessment, which results in a decrease of about $9.2 billion in government revenue; and reducing the profits tax, which results in the decrease of about $6.1 billion in government revenue. Deputy Chairman, for people who have a flat to live in or have rental income, do they need help from the Government? Compared to the PRH tenants and CSSA recipients mentioned in items (d) and (e), who should be helped and who should not?
Let me cite a very simple example. Relief measure item (c) is to waive the rates for two quarters. A survey has found that a real estate agency can enjoy a rates concession of about $220 million. Most companies reap their profits from rental income. Their owners are in the top social strata, enjoying great wealth. But the Government still introduces the rates concessions. On the contrary, those in the bottom social strata who sell rice cakes are in a dire plight. The relief measures the Government provides for them only amount to $3.7 billion, a very small sum indeed. All the relief measures are paid with our money. All colleagues, including those present here, have to pay taxes. After we have paid taxes to the Government, the Government has no sympathy for the poor but gives way to nepotism, that is, people who have a better relationship with the Government will get more money.
Besides, John TSANG totally misunderstands the principle of tax payment. In his view, for those who have paid taxes, it is justified for him to refund them if he makes a wrong estimation; but for those who have not paid taxes, even if he makes a wrong estimation, how can he refund them? His interpretation is totally wrong. In western countries, some people propose that for those who have no representative right in parliament should not pay tax. Although Hong Kong has the Legislative Council, its nature is not like a parliament. We all know that it is not democratically elected. However, if a large portion of the population cannot afford to pay tax in a place, the government concerned has committed a sin. Frankly, it is not true that many people do not want to pay tax; the problem is that their income is so low that they cannot contribute to society through paying tax. They do not have to pay tax because of their meagre income.
11046 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
If a government genuinely practices benevolence in governance, it should refrain from gilding the lily, the money used for buying roses and carnations should instead be given to those who have no food. Should a government not do so? Why then does the Financial Secretary introduce the above measures? Is the Financial Secretary fighting with other Secretaries of Departments? I have not talked about Carrie LAM and my proposal to slash her salary. Relax, Carrie LAM, I have yet to talk about slashing your salary. In respect of the three Secretaries of Departments, Carrie LAM heads the Commission on Poverty but the Financial Secretary has nothing to do with her. Carrie LAM is putting on a big show by trying to identify the poor and setting the poverty line. But the Financial Secretary takes three fifth (about 70%) of the $20 billion to reward the rich. What kind of person is he? He has none of the four principles, namely benevolence, righteousness, propriety and knowledge. He has no feeling of commiseration, and that of shame and dislike, of modesty and complaisance, as well as that of approving and disapproving.
Deputy Chairman, from the relief measures alone, we can tell that John TSANG does not have a right mind. Take Secretary CHEUNG, not Secretary Anthony CHEUNG but Secretary Mathew CHEUNG, for example. A couple of days ago, a grey-haired elderly man in his eighties knelt down in front of him, begging him not to demolish the residential care homes for the elderly in Shek Tsai Leng. I would like to ask John TSANG, as he claims to belong to the middle class and only watches French movies, do some French movies also depict the plight of the underprivileged before the French Revolution? Is he totally ignorant of that? Does he want to see 100 elders kneeling outside his office and refusing to stand up before he is willing to set aside $50 billion? If so, I will invite 100 elders to kneel before him. Some elders have phoned me, asking me if the Financial Secretary wants 100 elders to kneel before him. John TSANG, what are you doing? I really have to give you a set of female clothes, just like SIMA Yi. Why are you leaving? I am insulting you. Come back. Defend yourself on the scene, do not just write in your blog.
Deputy Chairman, this Financial Secretary uses $16.3 billion to help the rich but only $3.7 billion to relieve those in a dire plight. Has he confused the right and the wrong? Should we still support the allocation of funds to the Government? In the Budget, there are only two pages (pages 53 and 54) that talk about the so-called "relief measures". I would like to ask him and those in this Council, who keep saying that they want to stand up for the poor, how can LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11047 they be so indifferent? Do they not have any views? They choose to keep their mouth shut.
The candidates of the constituency to which I belong all say in their election platform that they will speak for the elderly people, strive for universal retirement protection and elimination of poverty. During my time serving as a Legislative Council Member, I only have one chance in a year during the Budget debate to discuss the relevant problems and request the Government to change this unreasonable system. In 2011, Members did not support the Budget. That year, this unqualified Financial Secretary made a wrong estimation again for the third year and proposed to inject $6,000 into the employees' Mandatory Provident Fund account. Did Members not burst into an uproar and refuse to support the proposal? Why is everyone so forgetful? If the $16.3 billion is distributed to all Hong Kong residents, or if it is only distributed to those who can benefit in items (d) and (e), how much can they get? Why does the Government insist on distributing the surplus to the rich? It is immoral to reduce the poor's wealth to increase the rich's, just like cutting the flesh to cure a boil.
Deputy Chairman, John TSANG is practically good for nothing. When I read from page 52 to 55, I cannot sleep. How can there be such an idiotic and treacherous person? Deputy Chairman, I am justified to propose deducting his emolument. In paragraph 140 on page 51, he makes some novel initiatives about preserving the revenue base. In paragraph 140, it reads and I quote, "The second major recommendation of the Working Group is that Government should preserve, stabilize and broaden the revenue base. I am all for it. Having regard to the competitiveness of Hong Kong and the impact on the community, there is little room for major tax hikes. In principle, I shall not rule out any means to increase tax revenue. However, I also understand that it will be controversial to propose any new taxes, which need thorough consideration and public discussion. At the present stage, Government's priorities are to overcome the constraints posed by the ageing population on our economic growth, keep moving our economy up the value-added chain, and increase and preserve our revenue. Meanwhile, we have to ensure that our expenditure growth keeps pace with economic and revenue growth. We should also strive to forge a consensus in the community on preparing for Hong Kong's fiscal challenge in the short, medium and long term." (End of quote)
Since 2007, John TSANG has experienced many lessons. In the face of the financial tsunami and further economic integration with the Mainland, and so 11048 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 on, he has repeatedly talked about the trickle-down theory. What is the trickle-down theory? Deputy Chairman, if you have studied economics, you will know that the trickle-down theory is to boil water for whatever reasons, and when the water is boiled, it will drip down from the edge of the container. It means that the tax reform will not make those who are so fat that they cannot bend down to put on their socks to give back a little money to help those who work hard to contribute to the prosperity of Hong Kong. His philosophy is, "We only have so much food. If you have not been given food while other people have the food, you have to wait for these people to spit the leftover food to you". This is the so-called trickle-down theory. Nevertheless, does the trickle-down theory apply to today's Hong Kong society? LEUNG Chun-ying has a different view today. He has changed his view.
In my view, he is dumb and cannot think. He not only copies his homework every year but also drools and needs a bib. For this reason alone, we should deduct his emolument. For the past six years, he has done nothing good. All he has done is to wait for luck, wait for the Mainland economy to "pour down a big bucketful of water" and for the water to trickle down to benefit Hong Kong. Deputy Chairman, on this point, I think (The buzzer sounded) … he should not be paid.
John TSANG, come back quickly. Do not leave!
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Your speaking time is up. Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I now speak further on Amendment Nos 729, 730 and 737 in support of deducting an amount roughly equivalent to the estimated expenditure for one year's or six months' emolument of the Chief Secretary for Administration. In my speech earlier, I mentioned that Carrie LAM has been in dereliction of duty in three major areas and I have explained clearly the first two areas, namely the poverty alleviation policy and the population policy. I will concentrate on her work involving the constitutional reform in this part.
The first stage of the five-month consultation exercise on constitutional development was completed and half of the consultation period has already passed. The "constitutional reform trio" led by Carrie LAM seems to be gaining LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11049 momentum. During the consultation, they made non-stop efforts to meet with people from various political parties, groupings and sectors, and have dinner or breakfast with them. We participated in none of these activities. They also exchanged views with certain Mainland legal experts and academics, and had invited LI Fei to come to Hong Kong. They appeared to be very tough, diligent and have done a lot of work. However, as we always say, having done something does not mean doing something well. The Chief Secretary said that they have consulted all parties, but in fact they were just "falsifying the accounts" for the bogus consultation. She produced a pile of figures on the last day of the consultation period when she attended a consultation meeting on constitutional reform organized by a district body. There, she said that in the previous 151 days, the Task Force on Constitutional Development and relevant officials and staff had attended a total of 226 consultation meetings and she had also attended 87 meetings. Attending 87 consultation meetings in 151 days can be considered a remarkable record, that is, to attend about one consultation meeting in every two days. She also said that sometimes she and her colleagues had to attend more than one consultation meeting a day.
This has been the practice of the Government in recent years. It just focuses on building up the numbers to prove to the public that it has done something, but gives no regard to the quality of the work done. Similarly, the Chief Secretary criticized Members for raising too many questions, convening many hours of special meetings of the Finance Committee, or speaking many times at the Committee stage. We admit that even though we have made various speeches, it does not mean we have accomplished something or have done a good job. During the whole consultation process, we can see that the Government's tactics is to hear the views, but its stance remains unchanged. Although the Chief Secretary attended so many seminars, met with so many groups and bodies and collected 2 700 submissions, she just pretended to adopt the attitude of "Let's talk". While she said that there was no predetermined position and they would take on board everyone's views, they kept rejecting the opposing views and relentlessly criticizing civil nomination, stating that civil nomination was just a stance, a slogan and an expression of idealism which would not be accepted under the law.
Nevertheless, I have to be fair to Carrie LAM. Being the leader of the "constitutional reform trio", she has to take up a nasty job. Someone said that she should get a pay rise for doing so much work. If she can truly attain a genuine universal suffrage in Hong Kong, we do not mind contributing a share to pay her. However, as only the first half of the match is finished, we have our judgment on 11050 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 whether she is worth the money and whether she should be paid that much. The first half of the consultation on constitutional reform is just a kind of expectation management. Can the Chief Secretary get a passing mark for her performance? I believe the general public would give her a passing mark. In particular, for those who do not care about politics, they may even be misled by the trio, thinking that civil nomination is against the Basic Law and thus they dare not strive for it.
With the completion of the first stage of the consultation, we now enter into the second half of the match. The pressure on the "constitutional reform trio" is mounting and the room for maneuvering has become increasing small. In the end, the nomination committee (NC) will become the only channel for nominating the Chief Executive candidates, and the discussion will concentrate on the formation method of the NC and the nomination procedure. Actually, not only democratic Members, pro-establishment Members or the political party to which the Deputy Chairman belongs also consider that the room cannot be so suppressed. If so, even people from the pro-establishment camp cannot meet the threshold. However, during the course of consultation, that is during the consultation led by Carrie LAM, is she fighting for the biggest room for the people of Hong Kong, or will she, after going to Beijing for instruction and after listening to the definitions given by Mainland officials, impose such views on Members and the people of Hong Kong, compelling us to accept the views which are not even expressed by the most senior Mainland officials but only by mid-level officials or legal experts, claiming that the Central Authorities consider that civil nomination is not feasible as its representativeness among the public and the sector is not extensive enough and it is against the Basic Law? If so, her work will be easy enough. All she has to do is to receive the imperial edict and then follow it exactly when conducting the so-called consultation in Hong Kong. At the beginning, she pretends to adopt a "let's talk" approach, but has she ever spoken for the people of Hong Kong?
Dr Margaret NG, former Legislative Council Member and a practising barrister, said that under Article 45 of the Basic Law, the justifications for civil nomination are more direct and forceful than those given by the Chief Executive when requesting for the interpretation of the Basic Law by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress. At present, the most common dispute is: has the Basic Law laid down this requirement and if it has not, does it mean we cannot take any action? I do not intend to put forward all the arguments here. But the justification is that in relation to the democratization LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11051 process, it is absolutely possible for civil nomination to be included in the nomination procedure of the NC. With the foundation of civil nomination, the NC has no reason to veto it; it should instead recognize that such a practice is absolutely justifiable and reasonable.
My speech in this session is not about Secretary for Justice Rimsky YUEN. I will propose to deduct his emolument when I talk about other amendments next time. However, Secretary for Justice Rimsky YUEN once said that if the NC could not reject a nomination, its nomination right would be stripped. This statement is too exaggerated, meaning that the NC has the final and absolute screening power, a power which is sacred and inviolable, and any proposal that may weaken the NC's screening power is unacceptable.
Though the theme of this session is not on constitutional reform consultation, I must raise one point. If the NC's nomination power is so sacred and inviolable and cannot be weakened, then is restricting the number of candidates to be nominated by the NC to three tantamount to restricting and weakening the NC's supreme nomination power? How come what Rimsky YUEN considers feasible is feasible while what it is considered feasible by others is not feasible? Concerning this question, I still do not have the chance to ask Secretary for Justice directly and he has not responded.
At many consultation forums about constitutional reform, Carrie LAM not only pretended to adopt the "let's talk" approach, she also tried to tell the people that her arguments are justified. John TSANG said in his blog that someone was "putting on a show" but in fact, Carrie LAM was also putting on a show in the consultation on constitutional reform, acting as if she was genuinely consulting the public. That is why we have to deduct her emolument.
I have just said that under the accountability system, principal government officials have the duty to implement important policies. It is indisputable that constitutional reform is the most important policy and since Carrie LAM has accepted this hot potato, she has to deal with it. If she fails to implement the reform successfully, she will be held accountable. This is not only the responsibility of Members who vote against it. They of course have the responsibility. If electors think that Members should not vote against it, they may vote for some other people in the next election. However, since the Chief Secretary is paid for the job and she has taken up such a significant task, she cannot shirk her political responsibility by quoting the gatha of Buddha such as, 11052 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
"The flower in the mirror; the moon in the water; They are mirages and illusions, which are intangible and will end up in a void.".
Therefore, at the present stage, we think that it is best to deduct six months' emolument of Carrie LAM, that is, we support the "half-harsh" proposal put forward by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung (Amendment No 737), so as to let her know that in this consultation on constitutional reform, she has to bear responsibility should the constitutional reform fail to bear fruit, and she has the responsibility to make it work. She cannot just execute Beijing's orders and attempts to force them onto Hong Kong people, thinking that she will win if Hong Kong people give in to the pressure; but if they do not give in, she can just ignore it, saying that the situation is like "Flower in the mirror and the moon in the water" which has nothing to do with her.
The emolument itself is of no great significance. Even if Chief Secretary Carrie LAM has her one year's or six months' emoluments slashed, it will not have much impact on her daily life. However, she should not bury her conscience and blindly conduct the bogus consultation and fake constitutional reform, driving Hong Kong people to their doom. I wish to give the Secretary the following quotation, "Nothing can be brought away, only the karma that follows". I hope that she will act in the future interest of the people of Hong Kong. Financial Secretary John TSANG said that without universal suffrage and constitutional reform, Hong Kong will stay put and become very hard to govern Hong Kong. I believe that both Secretaries of Departments understand this principle and by demanding the deduction of their emoluments, we only wish to emphasize the importance of this matter.
On the whole, as regards the three major tasks mentioned above, namely poverty alleviation, the population policy and constitutional reform, I consider that Chief Secretary Carrie LAM's performance is below par. Hence I hope that Members will support Amendment Nos 729, 730 and 731.
For the remaining time, I will talk about another amendment which is related to Head 143 ― the Civil Service Bureau. There are a total of nine amendments; Amendment Nos 763 to 771 are related to the Civil Service Bureau. The "harshest" amendment is to deduct the estimated expenditure for the salaries, allowances and staff-related expenses of 21 directorate civil servants for the whole year. There are also some individual amendments on deducting the estimated expenditure for one year's or six months' emolument of the Secretary for the Civil Service, and deducting the estimated expenditure for the emolument LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11053 of the Permanent Secretary for the Civil Service. The least harsh one is Amendment No 771 proposed by Mr WONG Yuk-man concerning the deduction of $200,000 only from the estimated expenditure for official entertainment incurred by the Civil Service Bureau for the whole year. It is just a mild penalty. Members can decide which one of these nine amendments they will support after hearing what I say in the following. I will speak on all of them instead of going into detail of each amendment.
First of all, I support these amendments because I find that the Civil Service Bureau has made very serious blunders in its recruitment of civil servants. The Bureau has the responsibility to appoint government staff on merit and ensure sufficient manpower for government departments. As at 31 March last year, the number of civil servants was about 162 000, but that was not an up-dated figure. In the face of the up-coming wave of retirement in the Civil Service, various government departments are extremely inefficient in their recruitment. The Audit Commission (AC) criticized in its audit report that the open recruitment of civil servants took too long, with some recruitment exercises taking over eight months to offer the appointment. The report also pointed out that the Correctional Services Department (CSD) conducted 10 small-scale recruitment exercises and the longest one took 714 days, that is, over two years, to recruit some staff while the Civil Service Bureau lacked an established mechanism to monitor the completion time of the recruitment exercises. The AC considered that a lengthy recruitment process could put the Government in a disadvantageous position in competing for talents and also increase the recruitment costs.
The AC recommended that Policy Bureaux and government departments should formulate a recruitment timetable and closely monitor the progress of open recruitment. The AC conducted a review of over 50 open recruitment exercises carried out by the Civil Service Bureau, CSD, Education Bureau, Food and Environmental Hygiene Department (FEHD) and Leisure and Cultural Services Department (LCSD) between 2010-2011 and 2012-2013, and the most outrageous one was the CSD. When I talked about deducting the expenditure for the CSD, I mentioned the case that the CSD spent 714 days on recruiting a technician responsible for construction and maintenance work, during which half of the time was spent on vetting applications and shortlisting candidates. Moreover, the CSD spent another 628 days on recruiting a Technical Instructor (Printing). The report also pointed out there were problems with the in-service recruitment in the Government. As at the end of last year, the FEHD, LCSD and Education Department had the most vacancies, all of which are basic grades of 11054 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Workman I and Workman II. In the past two years, the three departments conducted a total of nine in-service recruitment exercises. The LSD conducted an in-service recruitment exercise for Workman I staff (The buzzer sounded) …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I have just talked about Programme (3) relating to the work and establishment of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau. One of the issues to be noted in Programme (3) … Deputy Chairman, as there are a number of issues concerning various aspects, I will not discuss each of these issues in detail.
I have mentioned that the expenditure for the SAR Office in Beijing (BJO) amounted to $18.3 million, the expenditure for the SAR Office in Guangdong (GDO) amounted to $16.5 million while the expenditure for the office in Shanghai amounted to almost $8 million. Let us consider the grades of those officials; they are exceedingly high. If there are so many officials and staff, why do they not stay in Hong Kong to help Hong Kong people tide over difficulties and properly handle the housing and healthcare issues?
Deputy Chairman, it is really interesting that the BJO also has 19 staff members. It has the largest number of directorate posts. In 2014-2015, the BJO has three directorate posts. These directorate posts include one Administrative Officer, Staff Grade A; one Administrative Officer, Staff Grade B1 and one Administrative Officer, Staff Grade C. There are also 16 non-directorate posts, including two Senior Administrative Officers. Deputy Chairman, Administrative Officers are senior posts with rather high salaries; and those Administrative Officers stationed in Beijing are experienced officers who are ready for promotion. They may make use of this opportunity to get "sanitized", become acquainted with senior Mainland officials and have a better understanding of the situation in Beijing. When they return to Hong Kong, they may get accelerated promotion, but of course, they have to ensure that nothing goes wrong during the period. They may also take this chance to learn Putonghua when they work in the Mainland. My Putonghua is just so-so. So, the posting can be regarded as a chance for training, getting to learn the political culture in the Mainland. However, they should not learn to drink or pick up the bad habits in the political arena of the Mainland.
There are two Senior Administrative Officers, one Principal Trade Officer, four Trade Officers, one Principal Immigration Officer, one Chief Immigration LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11055
Officer, three Immigration Officers, and one Chief Information Officer who is a spin doctor in reality. I do not know if the Chief Information Officer is … "Long Hair" said a few days ago that Information Officers seem to have nothing to do with fighting for the freedom of the press. In fact, Information Officers assist in packaging government information, reporting good news only and holding back unpleasant news. They promote government-supported news and conceal unpleasant news, and they never respond to any questions. For instance, a Member previously asked for the records of meetings of the Executive Council but nobody would provide an answer. Even if you ask the Information Officers for information, it is to no avail. If senior government officials refuse to disclose certain information, you will not get the answer no matter how you pursue. In addition to one Chief Information Officer and one Information Officer, there are also one Executive Officer I and one Senior Personal Secretary. On the whole, many officers are responsible for the execution of duties but there are fewer posts for general office administration.
This establishment is certainly better than that of the Chief Executive's Office (CEO). The CEO has numerous secretaries and officers responsible for general office administration, and it even has five officers responsible for confidential files. Do staff of the BJO not required for keeping confidential files? This is really very interesting. We should ask in future why there are five staff members in the CEO responsible for confidential files while no one in the BJO is responsible for confidential files. Perhaps the BJO does not have any confidential files and since there are no confidential files, nothing needs to be done. Buddy, a former reporter has recently been arrested in the Mainland for disclosing certain information which in fact can also be found in the Internet. Though the information disclosed is not important, the person is charged for revealing state secrets. If no BJO staff is responsible for confidential documents and files, the BJO may not be aware of some so-called sensitive information circulated online. Can we say that the BJO is useless? The officers only care about wine and dine. As circulated online, a Hong Kong resident was almost arrested recently for having dinner in Hangzhou without making prior application. This is irrelevant to the main subject.
On the BJO again, I have just mentioned that senior government officials, especially the Administrative Officer, Staff Grade A, could, after assumption of office, easily establish networks and pave way for their retirement in the future. Perhaps in future these officials should not be allowed to station in Beijing for too long. I know an official who has stationed in the Mainland for a long time. Being very senior, he is not accepted by other Policy Bureaux in Hong Kong and 11056 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 is thus deployed to station in the Mainland for a long time. Owing to his long stay in the Mainland, he has been deeply influenced by the bureaucratic practices and culture in the Mainland, and upon retirement, he stayed in Beijing and he has not returned to Hong Kong. This story actually reflects a phenomenon which is not so good or a bad lesson. Even if officials … many retired senior officials really want to serve the people and they would not accept appointment by large consortia. Not long ago, it was reported in the press that a retired former Commissioner of Police explicitly said that he would only work as a volunteer and would not accept any appointment. This is highly commendable, but some officials have, before their retirement, applied in advance for special approval to work as "watchdogs" for large consortia, and they should be strongly reprimanded. The "No 1 in-charge" of the Police Force has become a lackey of large consortia after retirement.
Deputy Chairman, let me talk about the scope of work of the GDO. The GDO certainly has fewer staff than the BJO, and the ranks of its senior officers are lower than those of the BJO; yet, it also has a rather large number of officers. The establishment of the GDO includes one directorate officer, that is, Administrative Officer, Staff Grade B. As compared with the BJO, it does not have an Administrative Officer, Staff Grade A though it still has an Administrative Officer, Staff Grade B. In addition, there are 14 non-directorate officers, including Senior Administrative Officers, Trade Officers, and Immigration Officers, Information Officers, and so on. However, I would like to express my dissatisfaction with the SAR offices in the Mainland over the years. As I have said earlier, certain senior government officials would rather visit pandas than imprisoned Hong Kong people. When they were asked to visit these Hong Kong people and understand their situation, they said that such act was disrespectful to the Mainland authorities. I must condemn this kind of attitude.
I asked for some information in the past few years. In 2013, the Taiwan and the Mainland Offices received a total of 353 cases relating to personal safety of Hong Kong residents; the BJO received 156 cases; the GDO received 184 cases while the Office in Chengdu received only 13 cases. These figures either showed a lack of publicity by the SAR Offices in the Mainland or Hong Kong people's lack of confidence in them.
Deputy Chairman, my office in Hong Kong receives complaint cases involving the Mainland almost every week, and some of the cases are related to properties. For example, there are cases where Hong Kong residents' ancestral LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11057 houses in the Mainland are being unreasonably or unlawful occupied by force without offering any compensations. There are also cases where family members have been imprisoned. They lost contact with their family members after they have travelled to certain places in the Mainland, or their family members, who are involved in economic and commercial disputes, have been arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned by public security officers in exercising administrative detention powers. They are not allowed to visit their imprisoned family members and have not heard from them, but after some time, they are asked to pay a certain sum of money, amounting to several ten thousand, hundred thousand or even several million dollars, to get their family members released. These cases frequently happened in various areas including Shanghai and Kunming, and they often involve the abuse of power by Mainland authorities, especially the public security authorities.
Buddy, we waste over $100 million each year for posting so many officials in the Mainland while Hong Kong people are often unreasonably or unlawfully treated. Yet, a Mainland Office only receives on average one case seeking assistance a day, and there are 353 cases seeking assistance a year, so, there is less than one case a day on average as there are 365 days a year. Many Hong Kong people are often unreasonably or unlawfully treated in the Mainland and some of these cases involve personal safety.
Of course, we sometimes ask the Immigration Department or the Security Bureau for assistance. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Security Bureau for it can occasionally help Hong Kong people return safely to Hong Kong. Nevertheless, some of them suffer physically and mentally; some have been beaten black and blue; and some have been intimidated or blackmailed to pay several hundred thousand dollars before they could return to Hong Kong. If they wish to find out who is to blame and make claims against the authorities concerned under a more reasonable system, they can hardly succeed in seeking justice, not to mention getting compensation. The chance of making successful claims can even be described as miracles.
These problems have happened every now and then. Yet, Hong Kong people have to pay more than $100 million to help these senior officials pave way for their retirement in future, establish networks of personal connections and lead a luxurious life in the Mainland. When Hong Kong people are in trouble, they cannot get reasonable or effective support services. This situation must be reprimanded and I am furious. Since the Mainland Offices are powerless in 11058 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 helping Hong Kong people in many aspects, they might as well close down and waste no more public money.
Deputy Chairman, let us consider the report, if the Mainland Offices can really … in this Chamber, as well as at meetings of the relevant committees and on other occasions, we have strongly criticized the Mainland Offices for not making any contributions in this respect. However, over the years, officials from these Offices have not proudly stepped forward and told us how they have successfully helped certain people or provided assistance in certain cases. We know that the Security Bureau has helped to arrange people with medical problems to be rushed to hospital in ambulance once they cross the boundary. We understand that healthcare assistance has been provided.
Nonetheless, in dealing with Hong Kong people being improperly detained by public security officers in the Mainland by exercising their administrative detention powers, things will be handled differently. As we all know, when there are disputes between two parties, the party having public security influence can ask public security officers to detain someone and then force the other party to make payments. As we are aware, Hong Kong investors would co-operate with influential people of Mainland departments or influential people from towns and cities in the Mainland. When there are disputes, the administrative detention powers of public security officers are often used to detain Hong Kong businessmen.
Deputy Chairman, you definitely know much more about these cases than I do. I believe that the Business and Professionals Alliance for Hong Kong (BPA) and the Liberal Party, especially the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong (DAB), have received many related complaints. A lot of people who complained to these parties have come to me for assistance, but I can only tell them that I am eager to help but not being able to help. I asked them, "Since the DAB has many NPC deputies, how come it fails to help you? There are also many NPC deputies in the BPA. If these NPC deputies from Hong Kong cannot help you how can I, a Legislative Council Member from the opposition faction, be able to help?
Nonetheless, Deputy Chairman, I would like to tell you that my office receives similar cases every week. Perhaps they think that they can put pressure on the Hong Kong Government through the opposition party like us, or they want us to throw bananas or clear the places for them so that they can vent their dissatisfaction and anger. Of course, there are some litigation cases involving LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11059 judicial proceedings, and such cases were lost. However, those who are familiar with the Mainland judicial proceedings will understand that there is room for negotiation. For certain types of cases, people can pay several ten thousand dollars to get certain kinds of verdict; and there are numerous similar cases.
Since the Mainland Offices cannot help Hong Kong people in this connection, it is absolutely justified to delete such expenditures. Besides, we should not set up more Mainland offices as they will only become a means for retired Hong Kong senior officials (The buzzer sounded) … to make arrangements for themselves after retirement.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I still want to talk about John TSANG; this green booklet is a textbook … should he receive his salary … In fact, Mr TSANG …
(Mr Albert CHAN stood up)
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, when it comes to John TSANG, I would like to invite him to the Chamber to listen to the remarks of "Long Hair". He has written so many things in his blog but he has not come here to listen to our remarks. We openly ask John TSANG to attend the meeting and I request a headcount.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(While the summoning bell was ringing, THE CHAIRMAN resumed the Chair)
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
11060 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will Members please return to their seats? Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, please continue.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, we should examine the achievement of the Financial Secretary John TSANG from different levels and aspects. Is that right? It is not true that he has not considered the economic development of Hong Kong. When Chairman was not present a while ago, I mentioned the "trickle-down theory" that the Financial Secretary has mentioned over the years. Certainly, this is because he has never studied economics and he is a protégé of Donald TSANG, who is a believer of the "trickle-down" economics. Truly every official has the right to manipulate the economy based on his economic views, the question only lies in whether he is returned by election. As we are not discussing democratic issues now, I am not going to elaborate on this point. He has given his thought to the question and has made some political computations; for example, regarding this debate on the Budget, he has informed the Government in advance of a financial crisis.
Frankly speaking, if we consider the track records, no matter it is the "Future Fund" that I have strongly lashed out against just now or the fiscal cliff concept, there are track records. In fact, John TSANG has constantly taken a lot of factors into account, and he has once made a five-year forecast. Soon after he assumed office, he made a very bold forecast, which was deemed far-fetched today. According to him, there would be a fiscal deficit of $7.5 billion in 2008-2009, and from 2008 to 2013, we would have a fiscal deficit of $100 billion. He assumed that there was no or little economic growth but expenditures could not be reduced accordingly. Back then, John TSANG said at a press conference that the Government would use $100 billion from its reserve in the coming five years. In other words, 20% of the reserve would be used to make up for the fiscal deficit each year, which would be a considerable amount. Furthermore, our financial position was rather healthy as the remaining reserve of $390 billion would be sufficient to meet 14 months' government expenditures.
Times have changed. How much fiscal surplus is there when he proposes setting up a "Future Fund"? A fiscal surplus of $750 billion would be sufficient to meet 22 months' government expenditures. Is our financial position healthy or unhealthy? If today we decide not to allocate funds to the elderly and earmark the money for future use, miscalculation is no big deal. As I have often said, we need not bother about past mistakes or who made the mistakes so long as LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11061 we do the right things today. Mr Albert HO said so during the "five geographical constituencies referendum". The same applies to the Financial Secretary. So long as his past miscalculation would not affect the situation of today, and if he has not proposed the allocation of $220 billion and a portion of the future annual surpluses would go to the Fund, I would not mind whether he is right or wrong. It would be fine if he can hand out money, right? But this is not the case at present.
Chairman, to be fair, why should we believe in a person who has been in office for seven years and in his second year in office, forecasted that the Government would have fiscal deficits in the coming five years? In other words, he forecasted a fiscal deficit from his second year in office right to his sixth year in office, that is, last year. That was what he had done and he was wrong. He did not tell us that this was a really serious matter for Hong Kong. According to him, even if there was a surplus of $390 billion ― there was a surplus of $490 billion at that time but $100 billion was allocated ― our economy would still be robust. Is he still logical? Has he forgotten what he once said? Do we have to believe him? He has been in office for seven years but he has made wrong estimations in five years. He has still made wrong estimation this year though it is not so serious.
I would definitely fight against his proposal on a "Future Fund". It is because this proposal forms part of the green booklet on Budget. If this part is passed, the whole Budget would be passed. Thus, I must reiterate that there is absolutely no need for a "Future Fund". If his current and previous arguments are established, the Government would have estimated in 2008-2009 that $100 billion from the reserve would be used in the next five years to make up for the deficits as forecasted by John TSANG. That is really miserable! If the Financial Secretary takes pity on the elders, he just needs to make another mistake by allocating $50 billion for the purpose. He can make such mistake, right? I certainly hope that he would make such mistake and I even hope that he would mistakenly allocate another $50 billion to the elders. This is utterly simple.
For example, one day, I see a $500 note on the street. I am greedy and intend to pick it up and keep it. "Unless a man looks out for himself, Heaven and Earth will destroy him", right? But when I bend down to pick up the note, I see an old man begging on the road. I suddenly realize that I should not keep this $500 note but should pick it up and give it to the old beggar but not the 11062 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 police. This is a philanthropic act and ill-gotten gains should be given to people who are really in need, right? I presume the person who has dropped the $500 note would not blame me. It is definitely wrong for me to take the money because I am a Legislative Council Member receiving a high salary. If I take the $500 note, people would query if I want to buy two more cans of beer.
Let us think about this: if the Financial Secretary adopts this attitude in handling the mistakes he often made, that is, he bends down and picks up $50 billion or over $100 billion, and then proclaims that he has made a wrong estimation. The elderly are so miserable! Just pay a visit to Sham Shui Po, not to Lan Kwai Fong, and he can give some money to an old man. Tell the old man, I have picked up $500 note, I now give it to you, do not collect cardboard boxes that night. It is certainly right for me to make such criticism. Our argument today is about the attitude of conducting oneself, rather than economic estimations. He does not understand my point of view and he has done something that is even more incorrect. Why should we continue to deduct his emolument? If his emolument for the year can be deducted, I would ask for a deduction of his emolument for another year, so that he has to pay out of his own pocket for his expenses.
What are the reasons? The fiscal cliff that he has proclaimed is actually non-existent. We keep asking him what the origin of the fiscal cliff is, and whether it cannot be predicted. If the Financial Secretary can think of the events that may happen more than 10 years later, why can't he think of the events what will happen a month later? Chairman, I would not blame him if he made such statement last year. That is because everything has a start. Given the same situation that happened last year, how can he still say that if the Hospital Authority has to take out the principal from the fixed deposit to meet the expenses, it will loss $10 billion as interests. Is the Financial Secretary a fool? In that case, he can simply allocate more money to the Hospital Authority.
It is too bad for him to create such a crisis. Why? The elders cannot be frightened. When they learn that "Long Hair" would filibuster, they are panic, thinking that they may not have "double pay". The Government keeps frightening the elderly; does it not have a feeling of commiseration? Can it stop frightening them? The Financial Secretary can intimidate me by saying, "Long Hair", if you continue to filibuster, you will die a dog's death and you will be condemned by the world. That will do; does he need to frighten others? Those people are in urgent need of money. He uses $16.7 billion to help rich people LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11063 and $3.7 billion to help poor people. Is he intimidating those who need $3.7 billion? Who does he think he is? I would not be scared off even though the Financial Secretary uses the financial crisis argument as a political tool to suppress me. I hope the Financial Secretary would be more kind-hearted and would not tell those people who are in dire straits and worry about their next meal that they would have no money for meals if "Long Hair" would filibuster. That would not happen, Chairman.
The Government can approach the Chairman at any time and ask for priority handling of certain issues or the adjournment of debates. That is possible and we would readily allow these motions to be passed. These government motions cannot be negatived under the well-tested separate voting mechanism. A heavy-duty rubber stamp definitely works, right? Yet, the Government will not do so because it wishes that other people would also die. This is just like eating arsenic to kill the tiger. "Long Hair" is the tiger; a person will eat arsenic before he is eaten by the tiger. John TSANG is not convinced and he wants to beat me up. He can just beat me up, why bother the elders? He has said that he practises martial arts. Martial arts are about ways to stop fighting and resolve disputes. Is he really practising martial arts? He even used dirty means to attack me sneakily.
Chairman, as in the case when LEUNG Chun-ying wanted the "five Secretaries of Departments and 14 Directors of Bureaux" proposal to be passed at a meeting of the Finance Committee, he jumped the queue and applied for funding, but the application was not approved. Although this conclusion is drawn after thorough consideration, it is inverting right and wrong and shifting the blame on others.
Chairman, I have given the script to the translators and I think they must know how to translate them into English. "People who concern about the world will only consider issues which they consider difficult but to the neglect of simple matters, and they will only be vigilant on matters which they are afraid of but to the neglect of non-dubious issues. Yet, disasters often happen amidst oversight, and confusion often arises from unsuspecting incidents. Has comprehensive consideration not been made? Consideration can only be made on personnel matters, what wits cannot fathom are out of heavenly will." God will punish you, John TSANG! You have come up with so many nasty ideas to build up a frightening atmosphere to intimidate poor people; you would have your retribution! Even if he is intelligent, the conclusion is "If one is not to win 11064 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 heavenly favour with his virtues but intends to manage all state affairs with sheer wits in the hope that the state will surely go peril-free in the years to come, that would be at odds with reason. Is it the way heavenly will works?" In other words, it is meaningless for him to come up with venomous schemes; what matters is whether he would implement humane and benevolent policies.
My proposal for an allocation of $50 billion has been raised for two years and I have been rebuked again and more strongly this year. I have been rebuked by the Global Times to people at all levels. Why should I be rebuked? I am talking about humanitarian. We have a reserve of $750 billion but he even refused to allocate $50 billion. Starting from 2000, I have been advocating for comprehensive social security, not just retirement protection. The tasks in my political platform must be accomplished in this Council, how can I back off?
John TSANG, you have served a few masters: TUNG Chee-hwa, your sworn brother, and LEUNG Chun-ying, but that is meaningless for there are no political platform and no soul. But I do have, and for this reason, I will not succumb. You can be an official in your lifetime and spend money on coffee and French movies. I have not done so. Come on! John TSANG, come back and debate with me! Otherwise, you are a coward! You are not as good as SIMA Yi. Coward! Coward John TSANG!
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I would continue to speak on "Head 143 ― Government Secretariat: Civil Service Bureau". There are nine amendments, Amendment Nos 763 to 771, relating to the Civil Service Bureau, including the most powerful amendment to reduce the training expenses of the Civil Service Bureau, amounting to more than $70 million. Amendment No 771, the most minor amendment, is to reduce the annual estimated expenditure for the official entertainment of the Civil Service Bureau, amounting to only $200,000.
Before I continue to talk about the problems concerning the Civil Service Bureau, I would like to reiterate clearly that the most important programme of the Civil Service Bureau is "Human Resource Management". The aim of the Bureau is "to foster a dynamic, visionary and knowledge-based civil service LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11065 which delivers quality service to the community through a clean, trustworthy and fulfilled work-force". With this aim, the foremost task of the Bureau is to "recruit and retain persons of integrity and of a high calibre", and to "adopt and promote good human resource management practices to improve efficiency and quality of service".
However, it is mentioned in the Audit Commission report that, as at the end of last year, the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department (FEHD), the Leisure and Cultural Services Department (LCSD) and the Education Bureau have a large number of basic rank staff such as Workman I and Workman II. In the past two years, these three departments conducted nine internal recruitment exercises (I stopped at this point last time). In 2011, the LCSD appointed 192 people as Workman I through internal recruitment but 141 of them originally worked in the FEHD. That is to say, department A recruits staff from department B. As such, the two departments agreed to allow the staff concerned to transfer to new posts in batches from April 2012 to January 2013.
Moreover, in these 17 recruitment exercises including 10 small-scale recruitment exercises, some departments have not followed the guidelines of the Civil Service Bureau to formulate recruitment timetables; and the Civil Service Bureau has also failed to provide a monitoring mechanism. According to the Audit Commission, the lengthy process is unfavourable to the Government's competing with the private sector for staff. The Civil Service Bureau thus fails to perform its top priority task to "recruit and retain persons of integrity and of a high calibre". This also gives rise to problems such as high recruitment costs and delay in filling vacancies, as well as failure to perform the second task to "adopt and promote good human resource management practices to improve efficiency and quality of service".
As stated by the Audit Commission, "where an appointee did not come from a civil service grade with surplus staff" … in other words, if other civil service grades have surplus staff, appointing staff from other departments is a good use of government resources and there is nothing wrong. However, if two departments are understaffed; for example, the LCSD's recruitment has attracted FEHD staff to switch to new jobs and working environment, this would make the departments continuously compete for staff. As a result of such competitions, the departments which have lost staff to other departments will conduct recruitment. If they carry out internal recruitment to snatch staff from other departments, a vicious cycle will be formed. Government resources would not 11066 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 be effectively used and the staff wastage rate will be high. Therefore, the Audit Commission has reminded departments that the adverse effects of internal recruitment will be far greater than those of open recruitment. Hence, regardless of the number of vacancies, civil service vacancies at basic ranks will normally be filled by open recruitment, and in-service recruitment would only be conducted when there are adequate justifications under special situations.
I do not know how many friends of yours are civil servants; my friends in the Civil Service would go online to look for better government jobs on their first day to work. They have really found better jobs. If a civil servant earning $20,000 a month found online a government job paying over $30,000 a month, he would be able to switch to that job. I think the Civil Service Bureau really needs to address this issue squarely.
In addition to recruitment, I would like to take this opportunity to raise two other points. One of them is about ethnic minority civil servants, and this issue has not been satisfactorily dealt with. Thus, I support the proposal on reducing the expenditures for the Civil Service Bureau. Irrespective of the amounts to be reduced, Honourable colleagues should listen to my remarks and determine the rewards or punishments for the Bureau.
The ethnic minority groups in Hong Kong have been criticizing the excessively high Chinese language proficiency requirements for some civil service posts, imposing barriers for them in recruitment and promotion. As stated in a paper submitted by the Civil Service Bureau, the authorities completed a review of the language proficiency requirements for all civil service grades in 2010. Several departments such as the Police Force and the Correctional Services Department (CSD) have gradually relaxed the Chinese language proficiency requirements, thus increasing the opportunities for recruitment and promotion of non-Chinese candidates. According to an anonymous survey conducted by the authorities, as at the middle of the year before last, about 0.8% of civil servants are non-Chinese staff. This number is highly unsatisfactory, and the Government should take the lead in promoting the policies on ethnic minorities.
As we all know, the commercial community follows the lead of the Government in formulating policies. For instance, the Government introduces paternity leave for male employees and takes the lead to provide five days' leave at full pay. Other institutions in society will not completely follow the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11067
Government's practice, and they will reduce the paternity leave period to three days at a rate of 80% of the salary. However, in the recruitment of ethnic minorities, if the Civil Service Bureau in charge of civil servants does not take the lead to address this issue squarely, it is difficult to convince the public and in the private sector … We would go too far in saying that other sectors in society will be affected. We are considering if the Government can implement the policies that it proposed.
According to the Secretary for the Civil Service Paul TANG, among the current civil servants, 1.9% (approximately 500) of them are non-Chinese people, and the Government has no intention to create specifically new posts for the ethnic minorities. The Bureau also suggests that written tests should be exempted by various departments for vacancies for which Chinese writing is not required. About 20 grades have relaxed the requirements for language proficiency. For example, the CSD has cancelled the written test for some posts, and the Police Force has also adjusted the language assessments. I believe that the ethnic minorities can compete with others more fairly.
In fact, these two departments cannot accurately reflect the actual situations. Since the CSD has detained a lot of ethnic minority prisoners, it has to hire ethnic minority staff as far as possible. Owing to the needs of the CSD, applicants who do not understand Chinese, who do not know how to speak and write Chinese may still be employed. However, we fail to see other departments giving special consideration in employing the ethnic minorities. We encourage the Civil Service Bureau to relax the requirement on language proficiency, and regard the competence of ethnic minorities in the third language as a value-added condition, which may be conducive to their recruitment in individual civil service grades. It is roughly estimated that 6% of our population are ethnic minorities but the Government has only hired 1% to 2% of them. What percentage of ethnic minorities does the Government expect employers in the private sector would employ? Will the percentage be higher than that employed by the Government? Is the Government asking these employers to employ those ethnic minorities who are rejected by the Government?
In Hong Kong, result of the Chinese Language subject is a prerequisite for entrance to university, but this practice has deprived ethnic minorities whose mother language is not Chinese of a chance to enrol in university. Before the handover of sovereignty, ethnic minorities who had not taken the Chinese Language subject examination or who had failed in the Chinese Language 11068 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 subject, could till join a number of civil service grades such as the disciplined forces if they passed in the English Language subject. However, after the handover of sovereignty, applicants for further studies or jobs are required to pass in both the English Language and Chinese Language subjects. For example, for admission to local publicly-funded universities, students taking the HKDSE Examination have to attain a minimum of Level 3 for both the Chinese Language and English Language subjects, and this is obviously unfair. Speaking of the examination system, I have digressed too far, but I still hope that the Civil Service Bureau would pay more attention to the employment of ethnic minorities.
The last point is about civil service training in the Mainland. Why does Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung propose in Amendment No 763 to slash all … not all, but to slash the training expenses of the Civil Service Bureau from $72,534,000 to $100,000? The Government has all along encouraged civil servants to receive training abroad, but in recent years, civil servants mainly receive training in the Mainland. The Legislative Council Panel on Public Service has discussed civil service training and development. Some Members pointed out that as different systems are adopted in the Mainland and Hong Kong, if civil servants receive training in the Mainland, mutual understanding and exchanges between the two places will be enhanced. However, as civil servants cannot be unilaterally instilled with the positions of the Mainland, Members ask the authorities to make public the information on the Mainland courses and speakers, for they fear that civil servants may be brainwashed on the pretext of having exchanges in the Mainland.
How did Secretary Paul TANG respond at that time? He said that as there are increasing co-operation between the SAR Government and the Mainland authorities ― a nonsense comment ― it is necessary to enhance civil servants' understanding of the Mainland. During their training in the Mainland, civil servants will have exchanges with people having different positions and backgrounds. In other words, he has not directly responded to this question though I do not know his position about providing information on the courses and speakers.
In the estimates for the Civil Service Bureau in 2013-2014, $63.5 million has been set aside for the above training courses and services. In 2013, the Civil Service Training and Development Institute (CSTDI) organized training courses, seminars and workshops for a total of 54 000 civil servants. These training courses included the Basic Law training courses, attended by around 12 700 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11069 people. At the end of 2013, around 110 senior directorate officers had attended National Studies Programmes offered by the Chinese Academy of Governance. For this reason, I propose reducing the Mainland training expenses of civil servants, which involves Programme (4), especially the National Studies Programmes, and I support the reduction.
If the Government does not want Members to propose reducing these training expenses, it should disclose fully all information on the civil service training courses in the Mainland, including the outline of the courses, teaching materials and instructors. The public and this Council should be given such information; otherwise, we will hardly be convinced that it is necessary to have these exchanges with the Mainland for we believe that this is brainwashing on the pretext of training.
Lastly, I hope Honourable colleagues would support the nine amendments, Amendment Nos 763 to 771, relating to the Civil Service Bureau. The amounts to be deducted in these amendments varied according to the extent of severity. So, if Honourable colleagues think that a stumble may prevent a fall, they can support reducing $200,000 for official entertainment, so as to give the Civil Service Bureau an alert.
I so submit.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, a new development involving the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau is the plan to open an office in Wuhan with the addition of seven posts including an Administrative Officer, Staff Grade C; a Senior Administrative Officer; three Trade Officers; a Senior Information Officer and a time-limited Executive Officer I post.
If the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau is only responsible for promoting economic and trade affairs, the whole Bureau might as well be put under the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau, right? This is simply not the task that we consider the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau should undertake. In the past, apart from the work related to the political system, constitutional reform and the Registration and Electoral Office, the 11070 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Bureau was also responsible for handling human rights issues. Therefore, regarding the Mainland affairs under this Bureau, attention should be given to the treatment of Hong Kong people in the Mainland, but not economic and trade development. Moreover, the work related to economic and trade development is beyond the capacity of Hong Kong. We all know the actual situation in Hong Kong. While a number of studies have indicated that tourism in Hong Kong is dependent on the Mainland, and that tourism accounts for more than 1% of the GDP and has created tens of thousands of jobs, other studies have pointed out that it has gone beyond the capacity of Hong Kong. Therefore, there is not much need for development in this area, in particular, the setting up of an office in Wuhan is definitely a waste of public funds.
Furthermore, I would like to give the Government an advice. With the advanced development in communication technology today, many offices … Honourable colleagues may still recall, when we were young, there was a Neighbourhood Police Unit (NPU) in each public housing estate, but later it was no longer necessary to have NPUs. Given the advanced development in communication technology, police officers have walkie-talkies, and according to some studies, it was more effective to deploy police officers on petrol than station in certain places. The same happened to hawker control teams. In the past, they stationed in certain places, but nowadays, they travel around in vehicles to conduct the petrol duties. Some operations of other government departments have phased out owing to new management concepts or advanced information technology. Old practices implemented in the 1960s … The community reacted strongly when NPUs were scrapped. Residents of each housing estate wanted to have a NPU in their block, yet they gradually accepted the new practice and no longer demanded for NPUs.
However, the current practice is running in the opposite direction. The Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau has mainlandized the concept of governance of Hong Kong. Chairman, you are well aware that it is a common practice in the Mainland to set up offices in each town, city or province. Large enterprises and even each village are eager to set up offices in Hong Kong, so that they can have a chance to come to Hong Kong and experience the life outside the Mainland. By having exchanges with Hong Kong people and setting up offices in Hong Kong, they can have other development, or they can arrange their family members to work in Hong Kong as employees. They can even have their family members and relatives to fill up these posts. This is a mainlandized practice with regard to administration and management.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11071
At present, the administration and development of the Hong Kong Government is completely running in the opposite direction, either for achieving certain political effects, or for transferring of benefits among government officials, or for training certain officials to facilitate their future employment. Therefore, we might as well follow the practice in other regions by setting up a 24-hour hotline operated by Hong Kong government officials. They can directly provide services via the Internet or telephone; anyone from Wuhan, Sichuan, Heilongjiang, Shandong or Inner Mongolia may phone in and receive help. Why is it necessary to set up an office for enquiries? At present, many areas of operation in the Mainland have been computerized, and communication services are advanced and direct. To set up an office in every place is a waste of resources and staff of these offices really have nothing to do.
Under this operation mode, offices will be constantly set up. At first, offices are set up in a few regions such as Guangzhou, Shanghai, and Beijing, followed by Sichuan, Chengdu, and then Wuhan. Will offices be set up in various major cities in future? If so, offices will be set up in other provinces and cities such as Nanjing and Yunnan, how about Urumqi? Numerous offices will have to be set up as China is a vast territory with a large population. Since there are so many people, Hong Kong would go bankrupt if offices are set up in every city and province. So, in terms of service promotion and design, this mode of thinking is wrong and the impacts caused by this mistake cannot be underestimated. In future, other places and departments may also make the same mistake; if everyone does the same, public expenditures will be huge and so will the wastage. These officials should return to Hong Kong to serve Hong Kong people. There are still many elderly people picking up cardboard boxes. According to Mr WONG Kwok-hing's concept … Chairman, Mr WONG Kwok-hing is not present, please summon him back so that I can talk to him and ask him questions. I request a headcount.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
11072 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Albert CHAN, please continue.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I hope Members would not leave their seats and listen to some of my suggestions. We do not need too many Mainland offices and the Government should simply set up 24-hour hotlines or online services. Similar to the operation of the Tutor Hotline, anyone who have complaints can phone in and the calls from various parts of the country will be immediately answered. This can save money and officials will not learn the bad habits in the Mainland.
I know that many Legislative Council Members (especially those from the industrial and commercial sectors) sometimes return to the Mainland to attend banquets. Owing to limited funding of the Mainland offices, they cannot always host luxurious dinner gatherings. Very often, the bigwigs from Hong Kong will host such parties to entertain senior Mainland officials, and Hong Kong government officials will be invited as guests. Chairman, this undesirable practice would create or establish the culture and tradition of corruption. After the former Commissioner of the Independent Commission Against Corruption had taken office, he had used public money to buy Moutai and beef offal, and he had actually acquired the bad habit. In order to eliminate and prevent the expansion of such culture and mode of operation in the official circles in Hong Kong, these Mainland offices should be closed down, so as to restore the tradition of a clean Government of Hong Kong. The bigwigs in Hong Kong (especially Members) can save some money, for they no longer have to waste tens of thousands of dollars to host "meaningless" dinner banquets in the Mainland. Hence, for the above reasons, we should delete the expenditures for the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau on staff emoluments, especially the expenditures of the Mainland offices.
Chairman, I want to discuss another point ― just like CHAN Yuen-han, I would like to say whatever I wish to say ― one of the Programmes is about human rights, the rights of ethnic minorities and enhancing the promotion of the rights of children. Buddy, on the promotion of the rights of children, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau said nothing when a kindergarten in Tin Shui Wai was forced to wind up. One of the rights of children is the right to receive education. Owing to the lease problem, the strong relations established between teachers and children have to be severed. This is actually an offence but the officials concerned have not said a word, probably because this case LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11073 involves education or social welfare, but the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau is responsible for enhancing the promotion of the rights of children. The officials concerned have not uttered a word whenever these issues are involved; thus, they should be slapped in the face, dismissed and punished.
Concerning human rights reports, as we all understand, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau is responsible for co-ordinating the attendance of the SAR Government delegations at hearings of the monitoring bodies of the United Nations human rights conventions. If you have read the reports ― I have read such reports ― you will find that the contents are basically very biased. The protection of human rights is promoted in Hong Kong, especially the rights under many international human rights conventions, but the progress has been very slow.
When York CHOW was the Secretary, in order to build up a good reputation in the international arena, he decided to cause a substantial drop in the number of smokers. So, he drastically increased tobacco taxes. If the Government can be as brave as York CHOW in respect of human rights, we would have direct election years ago. We need not make ethnic minorities … they are very angry. They held a seminar in an education institution last week and I have frequently received many complaints from Nepalese, Indian and Pakistani people in the district. They censure the Government for not taking the initiative to safeguard the culture, rights and interests of ethnic minorities. In many respects, ethnic minorities, especially those who grow up in Hong Kong, lack suitable assistance and support. Therefore, they meet many obstacles during their development. As they fail to receive suitable assistance in their academic and professional development, they have encountered a lot of difficulties. For example, owing to unsatisfactory academic development, they fail to get a good job or they consider that they cannot give full play to their talents.
Therefore, the Hong Kong Government, especially the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, has failed to promote the interests of ethnic minorities and children within the scope of the international human rights conventions. The contents of many reports are biased, and have even concealed certain facts. For these reasons, we should reduce the relevant expenditures for this Bureau.
Chairman, I am now going to discuss Amendment No 776 that head 144 be reduced by $44,110,000 in respect of subhead 000; the reduction is equivalent to 11074 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 the annual estimated expenditure for the promotion work of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau.
Chairman, the reasons mentioned just now are sufficient to support the reduction of the Bureau's expenditures on promotion work. Chairman, I would like to point out that the expenditure of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau on publicity has soared to $44.11 million this year. The expenditure was originally $24.73 million in 2012-2013 but it reached $30 million because of its overspending of $6 million. The estimated expenditure was originally $23.95 million in 2013-2014 but the actual expenditure reached $35.27 million because of an overspending of $12 million. The Secretary should be spanked and dismissed. These departments really have special functions, statuses and powers. In my view, only public works projects have problems of cost overrun; the tender prices of public works projects are based on market prices and are beyond control. But in this case, we are forced to accept the Bureau's overspending and cannot raise any complaints.
However, this Policy Bureau has overspent for two consecutive years. I wish to publicly appeal to the Director of Audit to conduct audits on the Bureau. Every department should spend within limits. The total expenditures for the Financial Secretary's Office and the Chief Secretary for Administration's Office have increased by 18% this year, which is considerable. Even the Policy Bureau responsible for publicity on the constitutional reform led by Carrie LAM has significant overspending, and the publicity expenses are soaring. Why has Mr WONG Kwok-hing not ask them to increase the meal subsidies as well as CSSA payments for the elderly? Why do the elderly have to continue to collect cardboard boxes while these departments can have significant overspending and can substantially increase the publicity expenses? What should the elderly do? What should people living in "sub-divided units" do? When they ask for a higher amount of allowance, it seemed as though they wanted to take the Financial Secretary's life. These departments succeeded in increasing their expenditures considerably and they can overspend drastically year after year (The buzzer sounded) … They should be fired.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, not only has John TSANG … as I said …
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11075
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, this is the 27th time that you speak in this joint debate and you have discussed the performance of the Financial Secretary Mr John TSANG many times already. Please try to refrain from repeating the views which you have already expressed.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I have not repeated myself and I have something new to say each time. John TSANG has been the Financial Secretary for seven years. There are a few problems with him, including he is not humanistic enough, which I have said before. Actually, there is a problem with his level of intelligence too.
I said there is a problem with his intelligence for a reason. How come he got his estimations wrong? That is because he does not understand that since CEPA was implemented in Hong Kong in 2003 … no, in 2004, and after the global financial tsunami in 2008, he said … he said in this Council in 2009, when you were the President of this Council, that is, on 22 April 2009 …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I remind you again that you should not repeat what you have said.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): No, I am just giving an example to prove his low intelligence. When I say he is unintelligent, I have to give an example, otherwise I may be accused of hurling invective at him. At that time he said, "We will have an accumulated deficit of about $100 billion for the next few years" and he added, "In the next few years, there will still be many uncertainties in the external environment exerting pressure on our public finances. But we must not forget that in the six years from 1998-1999 to 2003-2004, we recorded deficits for five years". Okay, there is no problem in taking note of what happened in the past, but things have changed afterwards. In what ways have they changed? The Mainland actually used $4,000 billion to rescue the market during the financial crisis, could it have used that much money to rescue the market back in 1998?
Our economy has undergone a fundamental change. With the incoming Mainland business activities ― despite my strong criticisms and opposition, our economy has indeed changed ― three items of revenue have increased 11076 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 substantially, namely, stamp duty, investment income and profits tax. The increase in these items has exceeded that of sales of land. John TSANG is the Financial Secretary and he said he had participated in a WTO meeting, but he is actually not qualified to be an underling.
With $4,000 billion from the Mainland to rescue the market, the multiplication effect resulted led to investment in Hong Kong; yet John TSANG still acted foolishly in 2009, thinking that such incidents would not happen again. That is a problem of intelligence. The tycoons had reaped profits and he was still foolish enough to say that we did not have money to spend. What were his remarks? He might as well pack his bag and go home. This is a matter of intelligence and common sense. To date, he still cannot explain the change and his words lack substance. I can now tell Members that the change is caused by the economic situation in the Mainland. After the financial tsunami in 2008, Barack OBAMA printed banknotes amounting to US$4,000 billion and China printed RMB 4,000 billion yuan and so there was sufficient money to go around and we have benefited from it. Certainly, I know that drinking poison to quench thirst will not work in the long run, but I will not keep making wrong estimations like John TSANG. As he has made mistakes in his estimations, he has to cover them up with inconsistent statements.
I want to point out that because of his low intelligence, his mental state is also affected and his behaviour has become unpredictable. He said he would review the matter in 2009, but a few years later, he seemed to have completely forgotten what had happened and had not conducted any review. The cash handout in 2011 was a result of his wrong estimation, thus, after handing out $6,000 in 2007, he had to hand out money again. That is the practice of John TSANG. Whenever he made wrong estimates, he handed out money. When he handed out money in 2011, a coup was staged and I will not talk about it again. Anyway, somebody approached him and told him that people would oppose him if he adopted his initial proposal. As a result, he decided to hand out money to everyone.
Towards the end of the Budget debate held on 13 April 2011, John TSANG said loftily and I quote, "When allocating public resources for long-term and short-term needs in the Budget, we have to keep the balance right. We have to reserve adequate resources to complement long-term policy commitments on the one hand, and respond promptly to the immediate demands of the community on the other … we have proposed in the Budget a number of relief measures to give LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11077 people from all sectors of the community more disposable money and to ease their burden". (End of quote) Chairman …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I have to remind you again that this is the 27th time that you speak. Please do not repeat what you said in the Second Reading debate on the Appropriation Bill a few years ago.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I have indeed said so at that time.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Yes, you have mentioned the point at that time.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): But the incident happened a few years ago.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Please do not repeat.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, the incident happened a few years ago. Yes, you are right, many people say that I am unreasonable, that I am ignorant and incompetent, and that I speak nonsense as I do not read any books or information. Many reporters said to me outside this Chamber, "'Long Hair', you are speaking nonsense", but when I make a long quotation, I am forbidden by the Chairman. I have justification for my statement.
Just consider John TSANG's philosophy, why does he make the change after two years? Why has he proposed to set up a "Future Fund" out of the blue? Chairman, apart from being unintelligent, he is also a plagiarist. What idea has he copied? He is the king of plagiarism, apart from copying his own work, he has also copied an idea from Australia. Australia introduced the "Future Fund" in 2006 which was similar to his proposal. Australia introduced the "Future Fund" in 2006, but what I am talking about now is …
11078 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, during the Second Reading debate, you and a number of Members have already expressed your views on the "Future Fund".
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I know, but I have not mentioned his plagiarism at that time, since he has plagiarized, his salary has to be deducted. Earlier on, I was only making a general comment, but now I am proposing to deduct his salary. Buddy, deducting someone's salary is an important matter, is it not?
An unintelligent and unscrupulous person will certainly resort to such shameful tactics as plagiarism. Every day, he thinks of way to harm others, but as he cannot think of any ideas, he copies the "Future Fund" of Australia the name of which matches the reality. I do not know what our "Future Fund" will become. Worse still, members of the Working Group on Long-Term Fiscal Planning have been appointed by him. I do not know if any of these members has been a fund manager of the Future Fund of Australia. If there is, I hope the members will declare interests.
Why do I have to make strong criticisms here today and propose to deduct his salary? It is because the "Future Fund" of Australia is neither fish nor fowl. It has only been eight years since the Fund was established in 2006 and what is wrong with it? One of the initial objectives of the Fund is very similar to what John TSANG has in mind now, namely, to achieve a rate of return higher than the inflation rate of 4.5%, but the "Future Fund" of Australia has not been able to meet this target so far.
Secondly, a "Future Fund" is a sovereign wealth fund through which a sovereign state buys back state assets to support it. That is what John TSANG may also do. He has copied the approach and will allow the "Future Fund" to buy ― I urge Members to listen carefully because it is a valid point ― after the establishment of the "Future Fund", any state asset bought will belong to it. That is why the electricity used by the Australians every day … We say that the MTR Corporation Limited is supreme and these things happen in Australia too. Without explaining to us the whole concept of a "Future Fund", John TSANG keeps on saying that it will not only prevent Hong Kong from being marginalized, but will also enhance our competitiveness. I have to ask John TSANG: Are you out of your mind? Have you copied your proposal from the "Future Fund" of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11079
Australia? Answer me. I am saying publicly that John TSANG is a plagiarist. I now ask him this question in public: Has any member of the Working Group on Long-Term Fiscal Planning appointed by you been a "big spender" or a broker of the "Future Fund" of Australia? He should not have gone away to practise martial arts. Chairman, do you think … what is the use of mentioning this point? If John TSANG was in this Chamber, he could have answered at once, "'Long Hair', you must be crazy. Not a single member of the Working Group has ever participated in the sovereign wealth fund, the 'Future Fund' of Australia". But he could not answer me right now. I may even be accused of damaging his reputation by saying these things here.
The "Future Fund" of Australia is the same as ours. If the Fund has not been depleted after 14 years, it will be used to pay pensions. It is not intended to be a white elephant. State assets have to be injected into the Fund, the Fund seeks a high rate of return, the money is to be invested freely and managers have to be appointed to manage the Fund independently. To follow these five major principles, public money has to be spent which will make some people rich, just like the Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF).
Chairman, I have been condemning the MPF so much that my teeth are rotting away and Miss CHAN Yuen-han has also been condemning the MPF so much that her gum bleeds. I am telling those innocent Members among us that in setting up a "Future Fund", we are actually creating something similar to the MPF …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, you have spoken a lot on this subject already.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Okay, I will stop criticizing the "Future Fund" and continue to criticize John TSANG.
Chairman, after I have scolded him this time, I will stop for a while because it is pointless to pour hot water on a dead pig. Let me summarize, John TSANG has low intelligence and has problem in understanding. He is unscrupulous and relies on crony connections. I have said so in my first speech and will not repeat. Chairman, I believe even if no provision is allocated for his expenses, he may continue to work using his own money, and he is as foolish as 11080 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 that. I can do nothing about that. If Members agree not to make provisions for his salary, he may continue to work using his own money. Therefore, I will not use human language to talk about such an unintelligent and unscrupulous person.
Today, in response to John TSANG's comment that I have been "putting on a show", let me say that I actually agree with him. If I did not review his personality from a variety of perspectives, I would not have understood why such a person could act as the Financial Secretary. Chairman, I now formally ask Members who support universal retirement protection and who oppose the "Future Fund" for their help. Although I know some Members hate me and my speeches are not pleasing to the ears, they can treat me as a piece of black gold or a piece of coal which can be burnt. Feel free to burn me for I am not afraid of turning into ashes. You can scold or praise me, but after you have spoken, bring a pot of water to boiling point so that the elderly will have congee to eat after putting a handful of rice into the pot. That is fine with me.
Members, that is the end of my scolding of John TSANG. In fact, the Chairman is right. Too much scolding of a person is not good, is it? Too much scolding will reduce its value. Chairman, I announce that I will now end my strong criticisms against John TSANG. As the old Chinese story tells us, ZHUGE Liang captured and released MENG Huo seven times. I have scolded John TSANG seven times today, but has he responded? ZHUGE Liang ventured into the sparsely populated Burma, captured and released MENG Huo, chief of a cannibalistic tribe, seven times. Today, I have also captured and released John TSANG seven times, but this "MENG Huo" we have is a big trouble maker, he does not even have his soul.
Therefore, Chairman, you are right and your comments are indeed inspiring. Regarding such an unintelligent, malicious plagiarist …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, you have repeated these remarks many times.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): What?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11081
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): You have repeated your earlier remarks many times.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Sometimes that is inevitable. When my mother is angry with me, she will say, "Ratbag!", "Ratbag!" again and again. I will tell my mother, "Mom, you have said 'Ratbag!' many times already", but she will say, "That is not enough to vent my anger". Anyway, I will not call John TSANG "Ratbag".
Chairman, I announce that I will not attack John TSANG any more. Instead, I will ask him to do one thing, which is to initiate discussions with people. He should discuss with you, with me, with Miss CHAN Yuen-han and with everyone who support universal retirement protection. That will solve the problem. Trying to win over me by staying at home and playing "Keyboard Warrior" will not work. A "Keyboard Warrior" should not be paid a monthly salary of several hundred thousand dollars. I announce that Comrade John TSANG should amend his attitude, clean up his mess and stop fighting. If he initiates a discussion with me, I can negotiate with him. If he suggests setting up a fund with $49 billion, that is negotiable. He can say that he and his staff cannot get things done in 2017 because of low intelligence, but discussions can be held with a view to establishing a universal retirement protection system in 2018. Stop scolding me, stop humiliating the elderly and stop bringing insult on himself. Chairman, I announce formally that I will stop scolding him as nothing has been achieved after capturing and releasing him seven times. I will try to capture Carrie LAM next time, but before that, I have to capture those Members who have absented themselves from this meeting now. Please do a headcount.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
11082 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I will speak on "Head 74 ― Information Services Department" now. This part of the joint debate involves 10 amendments (Amendment Nos 370 to 379), proposed mainly by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung and Mr Albert CHAN to reduce the estimated expenditure for the Information Services Department (ISD).
First of all, I have to point out that among the government departments which deserve budget cuts or closure, the ISD will hold one of the top three places. Can you imagine what will happen if the expenditures for certain government departments/bureaux are slashed completely? The consequences will be dire. For example, if the provision for the Hong Kong Police Force and the Security Bureau are slashed, what will happen to Hong Kong? Some people say that it is utterly nonsense to slash the provision for the Hong Kong Police Force and the Security Bureau. However, the provision for the ISD can really be slashed. Consider if Amendment No 370 is passed, the expenditures for the emoluments of staff of the ISD will be completely slashed, in other words, there will be no manpower for the ISD. If there is no manpower, the ISD cannot operate and what will happen? No problem will arise because each government department/bureau can take up its own information services duties. The Chief Executive's Office (CEO) will be responsible for its own information services duties, the Administration's Offices for two Secretaries of Departments will be responsible for their own information services duties and the other departments/bureaux can recruit one or two staff members to carry out its information services duties. Therefore, the ISD is a department which we can afford to scrap. According to head 74, the estimated expenditure for the ISD is $408.8 million which is not a large amount for a government department.
Before I discuss the details of the proposal to deduct the expenditure for the ISD, I will brief Members on its five programmes and examine the estimated expenditures involved. There are also problems with them. To put it simply, the five programmes are: (1) Public Relations Outside Hong Kong; (2) Local Public Relations and Public Information; (3) Public Opinion; (4) Civic Responsibility and (5) Publishing. I will discuss in detail Programme (2): Local Public Relations and Public Information which incurs the largest portion of expenditure.
Let us look at the expenditures for the other programmes first. Programme (1) Public Relations Outside Hong Kong. The aim of this Programme is simply to promote a favourable image of Hong Kong LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11083 internationally and yet, the scope of work is very wide. Many government departments and related institutions are also doing the same kind of work. However, if we look back at the figures of this programme ― Public Relations Outside Hong Kong ― in 2013, the actual expenditure was $85.2 million, which was 5% less than the estimated amount of $89.6 million. Let us also take a look at the actual work done under this programme this year, less work has been done. What am I trying to say? This indicates that the ISD does not want to take up too much work and in fact, it has not done much because 5% of the provision has been left unspent. For example, the number of "sponsored visitors and visiting VIPs assisted" has dropped from 377 in 2012 to 260 in 2013 which indicates a decrease in workload. The number of "speaking engagements outside Hong Kong arranged" has also reduced from 203 in 2012 to 163 in 2013. Thus the ISD has not fully performed its function and its role can be replaced by the other departments.
Programme (3) is Public Opinion. The aim of this programme is to keep the Government informed of public opinion as expressed through the media and to advise the Government on public reaction to government policies and measures. I consider this programme redundant because its work overlaps with that of the Central Policy Unit. If Members do not support my proposal to abolish the Central Policy Unit, they should support my proposal to abolish the ISD. Regarding the programme on public opinion, both the original and the revised estimated expenditures for 2013-2014 have been reduced by more than 2%. I do not know if that is because similar work has already been taken up by the Central Policy Unit. The duties of conducting research, keeping the Government informed of public opinion as expressed through the media and advising the Government on public reaction to government policies and measures have been taken up by the Central Policy Unit.
Programme (4): Civic Responsibility. This is even more ridiculous. What is civic responsibility? It refers to the publicity and promotion activities and programmes run by the Government. Do Members remember which publicity campaigns have been launched last year? I believe you will probably remember "Big Waster" and "Food Wise Hong Kong Campaign", whereas the other campaigns are rather contrived and they draw two unrelated activities together. For example, the "Hong Kong: Our Home" Public Participation Campaign and "Bless Hong Kong" Campaign have been drawn together without careful consideration. Yet, the provision was not used up. While the original estimated expenditure was $460 million, the actual expenditure only amounted to 11084 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
$420 million which resulted in a difference of almost 10%. What has the ISD done in relation to civic responsibility? If we look at the actual figures, the number of exhibitions mounted dropped from 103 in 2012 to only 86 last year. In fact, if every government department is to conduct its own publicity campaigns, it will be more effective as the department concerned will be in the best position to know what the campaigns should involve. For example, fire prevention campaigns should be conducted by the Fire Services Department and anti-drug campaigns should be conducted by the Narcotics Division. Currently, these campaigns are conducted by the ISD which may not be most desirable.
The last Programme is publishing. The amount of government publication, which is published by the ISD, has dropped. The original estimated expenditure for 2013 was $666 million, but the actual expenditure was $662 million.
Let me discuss in detail the reasons for my proposal to reduce the provision for the ISD. Focusing on Programme (2): Local Public Relations and Public Information which consists of the major duties of the ISD, the estimated expenditure is $190.8 million, which accounts the largest share of the total expenditure. What are the main items of work in this Programme? They are arranging media facilities and issuing press releases.
Since LEUNG Chun-ying assumed office, the ISD has been strongly criticized as a publicity machine. Well, it should be a tool for publicity, but it has turned into … a publicity machine which is derogative. It seems that the ISD is performing political duties and impinging on the monitoring role of the media. The Government can promote its policies and publish its news, but it cannot distort what the media says and try to influence the media, so that the media cannot adequately exercise its right to monitor. For example, in the "sub-divided units" incident in which Mr Paul CHAN, Secretary for Development, was involved, do Members remember what the criticism against the ISD was? The criticism was that the ISD issued a press release almost at midnight to explain that the Secretary and his wife owned properties with "sub-divided units". At that time, some journalist's groups issued a statement criticizing the Government for issuing a press release late at night. The press release could have been published earlier, but it was only released late at night. I do not know whether the authorities acted purposely to vent their dissatisfaction, or they had difficulties in writing the press release or there were other reasons. As such an approach ran contrary to the open and transparent principle LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11085 emphasized by LEUNG Chun-ying, the journalists were infuriated. The fact that the authorities published the press release almost at midnight had made it impossible for the media, particularly the press, to contact anyone to comment on the incident. Can they phone Mr Albert CHAN late at night and ask him to comment on the matter? Moreover, the media did not have sufficient time to write the news reports or editorials. Besides, as the matter was not breaking news, the ISD should work in tandem with journalists. The incident makes people think that the authorities did not want wide coverage of the matter and were trying to play down the matter. Some newspapers which had early cut-off times could not publish the related news. Although the news was reported in one or two newspapers the next day, the other newspapers were unwilling to report on this matter in detail any more, as the news had become outdated. All in all, the authorities had tried by all means to minimize the negative effect of the news, or rather the scandal. Such practice had run contrary to the principle of establishing a good relationship with the local media. What the authorities did was actually damaging their relationship with the media and arousing their discontent.
Another reason why I think the ISD warrants punishment is that it has "tampered with" press releases. How is this done? Consider the following example. A reporter once asked, "CY, you have to take flight during your first visit to the districts. Are you aware that some members of the public strongly demanded your stepping down?" Surprisingly, when the press release was published by the ISD, the words "to take flight" were removed. This is an example of removing negative words from the press release and Members will find many more such cases if they search in the Internet. In the official press release, the above question had become, "How do you think about your visit to the districts yesterday? Some members of the public strongly demanded your stepping down". As the ISD had rewritten the strongly-worded question and turned it into a mundane one to hide the crucial words, it had attracted great criticism. This shows that since LEUNG Chun-ying assumed office, the ISD has become a publicity machine.
The above example is rather controversial, but there are others which are more practical in nature. Neither I nor the press has trumped up charges against the Government or LEUNG Chun-ying out of dislike. Last year, the Audit Commission criticized the ISD for not well utilizing the free airtime provided by television channels to broadcast announcements in the public interest (APIs); instead, it had spent money in placing repeatedly recruitment advertisements in 11086 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 different newspapers and used light boxes of bus stops. Moreover, it has printed a big volume of publications regardless of the sales volume and the full-cost recovery principle and unnecessarily spent $10 million in leasing warehouses for storing stock of publications. As the ISD has financial provisions, it has not given due consideration as to how money should be spent. It would be better if it had no money for it would have to think of ways to attract the press to report on or strive to report on the government news. It would not, in seeing that newspapers do not report on government news, extravagantly place a full-page or half-page advertisement on the press. Very often, when the Government rolls out certain controversial policies, the ISD would place full-page advertisement on the free newspapers to create public opinion. Despite the money spent, the Government certainly failed to create public opinion. What I want to say is that no efforts have been made to make use of the free channels to broadcast APIs. Money is not all powerful. Certainly, the Government can buy up the airtime of a television programme to promote constitutional development, and the special programme on constitutional development can then be broadcast day and night. Since Asia Television Limited does not have any advertisement these days, the Government can broadcast its APIs all the time, but public funds should not be used that way.
Besides, the Audit Commission recommended the ISD to place recruitment advertisements and tender notices through websites and electronic means more often and allow more scheduling flexibility in broadcasting APIs and encourage television broadcasters to broadcast them at different times. The ISD responded that it would work with other government departments to formulate guidelines on promoting information and expand the reach of government publications through government websites and mobile phone applications to reduce the costs of printing. The mention of mobile phone applications makes me angry. In a recent special Finance Committee meeting, I told the representative of the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer that although they have written many applications, the downloading rate was very low and they have not promoted the applications. In fact, the downloading rate is the most basic criterion for assessing the popularity of an application. The downloading of an application does not indicate its success; after downloading, the application may be not be used, people may just download the application out of curiosity, but a low downloading rate actually indicates a waste of public resources. Since the ISD claims that it promotes civic responsibility by assisting Policy Bureaux and government departments in mounting publicity campaigns and promotion drives, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11087 has it done any work in promoting mobile phone and tablet applications in this digital era? I believe it has not, at least I cannot see that it has.
Finally, I have to discuss the problem of official entertainment in the ISD, but I do not think there is sufficient time for me to do so in this session. I will speak on this point later. (The buzzer sounded)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
(Mr Gary FAN stood up)
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): I request for a headcount.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): I will continue to talk briefly about the reasons for proposing to reduce the provisions for some major items of ISD. I am referring to Amendment Nos 376 and 377, proposed by Mr Albert CHAN and Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung respectively to deduct an annual estimated expenditure of $42.4 million, used for visitors to Hong Kong and overseas speaking engagements.
Members may be aware of a recent news report on an incident which happened early last month. Seven high-level officials of the ISD, namely, Director of Information Services Patrick NIP, Deputy Directors of Information Services Matthew LEUNG and May LEUNG LAI and the Assistant Directors of Information Services had lunch with HU Xijin, Chief Editor of Global Times. After the dinner, HU Xijin uploaded the photo taken during the lunch meeting to 11088 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 the micro-blogs which led to a crisis. The netizens certainly rebuked the high-level public officers for wine and dine with public money and they also criticized the ISD for socializing with a "50 Cent Party member"1. It has been reported that the ISD invited HU Xijin to lunch upon knowing his visit to Hong Kong. From the photograph, it can be seen that the ISD turned out in full strength to have lunch with the Chief Editor of the Global Times. There were seven public officers and I will not name them all … in fact, how many high-level officers are there in the ISD? Seven, and the other five people in the photograph were from the Global Times. That made up a table of 12 in the Chinese banquet.
Do Members know about the Global Times? If you search the Internet, you will find that it is regarded as the mouthpiece of the Mainland Government. What are the people's comments of the Global Times? Its common practice is to fabricate figures, distort the facts and start a rumour. It has the habit of telling lies in almost every issue and it lives in a world of lies. Certainly, those are only comments on the Internet which cannot be taken as the absolute truth. However, when Chief Editor HU Xijin gave a lecture in The Chinese University of Hong Kong, trouble was stirred up too. Prof CHOW Po-chung of The Chinese University of Hong Kong took off his shoes and walked out in protest. I will not talk about the trouble in detail here, but more than half of the audience was dissatisfied and they disagreed with HU's point of view. He said that the majority of the 1.3 billion people in China shares the views of the Chinese Communist Party and the Global Times represents the voices of the majority of the people in China.
My question is, given that all high-ranking officials of the ISD have lunch with the Chief Editor of such a newspaper, did they ever have lunch with the Chief Editor of the Epoch Times as well? Does the ISD have any guidelines on how it establishes relationships with non-local media? If Mainland media are to be entertained in that manner every time they visit Hong Kong … since there are so many media in the Mainland and if each of them claims to be the Mainland Government's mouthpiece, how can we afford to entertain them? To be fair, Members are aware that the views of the Global Times are very biased. I am not going to enter into an in-depth debate with you; while the Chairman did not say we were filibustering, the Global Times said we were filibustering and published an article to attack some Members for launching the so-called "filibuster". I do
1 Internet commentators hired by the Communist Party to post comments that advance the Communist party line. They are said to be paid 50 cents for every post. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11089 not know whether the ISD has collaborated with the Global Times in that incident.
That ends my supplementary comments on the ISD. I hope Members will support Amendment Nos 370 to 379 proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung and Mr Albert CHAN. I will not go into the specific items of expenditure and trust that with the information I provided earlier, Members can determine whether they will support the Amendment which proposes to reduce the annual estimated expenditures for publicity or for the enhancement of civic responsibility; or support Amendment No 379 which proposes to reduce only $644,000, a petty punishment to warn against great penalty, so that the ISD will review on the problems which I have mentioned.
I so submit.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, my earlier speech mainly seeks to delete the expenditure for the publicity work of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau.
First of all, I have to declare interests. When the Government was promoting the consultation exercise on constitutional development some time ago, it sent to our office a four-coloured ball pen embossed with the words "Let's talk and achieve universal suffrage". As I am still using that ball pen, I have obtained some benefits from the publicity activities of the Government. The ball pen writes well, but I do not know how much it costs.
In fact, such publicity activities are not effective at all. The entire publicity strategy of the Government may well be transferring benefits to subdue the public on all fronts. I will certainly continue to demand Carrie LAM to step down, demand "689" to step down and resort to civil disobedience, such as participating in the Occupy Central movement to fight for civil nomination. I have to follow up on the profits made by the manufacturer of these ball pens, and the Audit Commission may have to look into these publicity activities. I certainly do not consider handing out ball pens a good promotion tactics. 11090 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Although they have given me a ball pen, I still have to reduce the provision for publicity.
I have criticized cost overrun earlier. If there is a cost overrun again this year, the public officers concerned should resign because there has been substantial cost overruns for two consecutive years and the rate of cost overrun may even be higher this year because they have to make an all-out effort in publicity. Chairman, talking about publicity, there are agreements between the Government and the radio and television broadcasters that certain airtime should be reserved for public broadcast free of charge. If the time slot for playing the national anthem, which is a golden time slot starting at 6.30 pm, is used for publicity, a large audience will surely be drawn. Continuing to play the national anthem will only cause aversion and it is meaningless …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, which amendment do you speak on?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): I am speaking on the proposal to reduce the provision for the publicity expenditure of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, which is Amendment No 776. It seeks to reduce an amount approximately equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure for publicity of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, amounting to $44.11 million. I have read out some figures earlier and Chairman, I will not repeat them lest you will say that I am filibustering. The estimated expenditure was $20 million-plus in 2012 and also $20 million-plus in 2013, but the cost overrun was $6 million in 2012 and even $12 million in 2013, which is nearly 50% of the expenditure. I thus have to reprimand the Bureau in this respect and will not condone it. The Bureau should not think it is so powerful that it can … Buddy, a person cannot be called a "good fighter" for wasting money. A "good fighter" means a capable person, but how can someone who "burns money" be called a "good fighter"? That is wasting money, is it not? While the estimated expenditure was $20 million to $30 million, the cost overrun was $10-plus million which is almost half of the expenditure. The "good fighter" image is but a misconception. If she wants to show us that she is a "good fighter", she should exercise control over the Bureau under her purview to avoid cost overrun. A "good fighter" can get things done without spending money. Getting things done by spending money is no more than bribery and an extravagant way of doing things cannot demonstrate ability. Such an approach shows timidity and vanity instead, does it LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11091 not? Spending money on giving out ball pens to solicit support for constitutional development is a kind of bribery. I think I really have to crush this ball pen.
Chairman, after speaking a lot on the problems concerning the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, I will now turn to another item which is Amendment No … hold on, let me see if I have finished talking about this area … no, I have not finished with the part on the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau. I will discuss Amendment No 793 proposed by "Long Hair". Before I do so, I have something to add. In relation to the publicity work of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau which I have criticized earlier, the Bureau estimated that of the expenditure on publicity amounting to $40 million-plus, $8.5 million will be spent on carrying out public consultation on constitutional development. That is definitely a waste of money. Look how the discussions on the Occupy Central movement have drawn public attention valued at more than $8.5 million. When we were demonstrating in Central a few years ago, a few television broadcasters continued to broadcast the demonstration process from 7 pm to 11 pm. The advertisement cost during the said airtime would cost more than $8.5 million.
Regarding the publicity work of the Government, if the Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs and his staff would conduct more meaningful seminars, they will surely get media coverage and public attention. Has "Long Hair" carried out any publicity? "Long Hair" needs not advertise himself, but he is the most well-known politician in Hong Kong, more so than Carrie LAM and LEUNG Chun-ying, is he not? Although the Government has spent a lot of money on advertising, and the "auspicious trio" appear on the television screen every day, their popularity ratings are not as high as "Long Hair". People of high calibre who are eloquent do not need any remedial treatment costing money.
Therefore, instead of broadcasting the national anthem at around 6 pm, the airtime should be used for government publicity to convey some worthy, meaningful and persuasive messages to draw the attention of the public and promote their understanding. If we can really implement Chief Executive election by universal suffrage through civil nomination, the public will give immediate support and why would we still need publicity work? If Carrie LAM supports civil nomination in the election of the Chief Executive and abolishes functional constituencies, all press headlines will report on it and the public will give her full support immediately. It will not be necessary to conduct "bogus 11092 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 publicity work" and "bogus consultation" and spend money to hand out ball pens to win favour. Conducting publicity work in such a manner is a timid approach adopted by a timid person. It is a waste of public money. The words "Let's talk" are nothing more than a lie. When can we really talk things out? The Central Authorities always have the final say; when have they allowed Hong Kong people to talk things out? Therefore, that is only a rogue's tactic. Some people have called it the deception case of the century, incurring a waste of so much money.
I will now turn to Amendment No 793 proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung which reads "Resolved that head 144 be reduced by $7,100,000 in respect of subhead 000". The Amendment reduces the annual estimated expenditure for hosting the 10th Pan-Pearl River Delta Regional Co-operation and Development Forum cum Trade Symposium by the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau (excluding staff emoluments). As the Chairman may be aware, as members of the progressive democratic camp, we attach the prime importance to local interests, local values and the development of the local economy. In our view, Hong Kong should neither be controlled by any external powers, nor should it allow any external influences or capital to affect its original planning and development. Over the last few decades ― actually for the last century ― Hong Kong has struggled independently to become the Pearl of the Orient, but the "pearl" has now become a "pig"2, a fat pig which has turned red. A white pig looks well, but a red one looks like a roasted suckling pig which is dead. Putting the pig over the fire until it dies is definitely …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, please be concise.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): If the approach is adopted, Hong Kong will turn into a roasted dead pig, buddy … Chairman, I understand.
Let us return to the Pan-Pearl River Delta Regional Co-operation and Development Forum. We are told that the hosting of the Forum, which will be held for the 10th time this year, will cost $7 million-plus. Consider the Ninth Forum. It mainly consisted of symposiums held with the authorities of the Mainland and Beijing and decisions were apparently made according to the planning of the Mainland. As Members may be aware, the Central Authorities
2 The words "pearl" and "pig" are homonyms in Cantonese. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11093 made all the planning and then published the reports, designating the different roles to be played by different regions, as well as the division of work. Such is the approach and mindset adopted in making plans and decisions for the development of Hong Kong. Making final decisions for Hong Kong according to this mindset will destroy Hong Kong. It will turn Hong Kong under the Lion Rock into Hong Kong under the Chinese flag which is governed by the Communist Party and controlled by Tiananmen. How bad it will be if Hong Kong under the Lion Rock will become Hong Kong under the control of Tiananmen. Therefore, there is no reason why we have to accept the control under the planning of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China.
As Members may be aware, Hong Kong was almost regarded as the most beautiful city and the most livable city back then. However, under the influence of the "north wind" and the mindset of Mainland tourists and so on, the ranking of Hong Kong has dropped to a position lower than that of Zhuhai. Recently, Zhuhai was ranked by some academic institutions as the most livable city while Hong Kong only ranked second. If more forums of such kind are held in Hong Kong, the ranking of Hong Kong will drop even further.
In the past when there were no such forums and planning and we were not affected by such mindsets, the development of Hong Kong had been smooth and Hong Kong was a very beautiful place. Many Mainlanders visit Hong Kong because they want to see this beautiful city. If they want to see a Mainland city, they should visit Shanghai or Zhuhai. Therefore, such forums are actually opportunities created for leaders of different regions to "flatter" members of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China. All Mainland officials adopt a similar mode in delivering their speeches in these forums. First, they will state the position of the Chinese Communist Party and the policies of the Central Government, and how different regions should give their support. Then they will state the outcomes of liberalization and economic reforms over the last decade, declaring that China has become a powerful country with outstanding performance. After some bragging, they will announce that the country's direction of development and the roles of different regions as well as the division of work. For example, Zhuhai will focus on developing education and leisure spots, a certain region will focus on industrial development, another region will focus on developing the transport industry and Hong Kong will focus on developing the finance industry …
11094 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, have you actually read the speeches delivered at those meetings mentioned by you?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I have not. I am only speaking according to my script.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): You are not talking about the scripts of the speakers at the meetings, are you?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): I believe the contents would be similar, Chairman. Let me look them up and then I will read them out to you.
Chairman, actually I have the information with me and I want to read them out to you now, "The Ninth …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Please do not digress.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): During the Ninth Forum, the Guizhou Consensus was reached. Chairman, I have done a lot of research and I am not talking nonsense. What I said earlier … Chairman, as you have attended many meetings of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conferences, you would know how the speeches are worded …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, this is the 28th time that you speak and it is also the 105th time that Members have spoken in this joint debate. Please be as pertinent as possible and do not digress.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, my speech is very creative and interesting.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11095
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): There is no provision in the Rules of Procedure which provides that creativity can make up for digression. Please focus on the amendment on which you are speaking.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Alright, I take your instruction and will talk about what happened at these subsidized meetings.
The 10th Forum will be held this year. During the Ninth Forum, the Guizhou Consensus was reached and its contents included ― I will read it out to you, Chairman ― "persist in serving the development of the country, actively implementing the overall strategies of regional development, give priority to pushing forward the development of the Western region, striving to facilitate the emergence of the Central region and actively supporting the early development of the Eastern region". The relationship between developing the Western region and Hong Kong … is not mentioned in the document, it is something which I have criticized.
In fact, there is not much relationship between developing the Western region and Hong Kong, hence, these meetings only serve to lend applause to the plans of the Central Authorities to develop the Western region. This shows that my earlier assessment and criticisms are correct, Chairman. However, I will not wrangle over this point. The consensus reached in the Ninth Forum also included "continuing to realize the comparative advantages and facilitating the expeditious development of designated areas in the region". The following point is even more serious, "continuing to adopt a pragmatic approach to facilitate co-operation in the designated areas … jointly pushing forward the construction of major cross-boundary infrastructure facilities". As the document is printed in simplified Chinese characters, I can only read them out slowly. "Expeditiously promoting the development of regional markets and integrated facilities, continuing to enhance the system of industrial co-operation, establishing a healthy system of public services and jointly promoting ecological progress in the region".
Buddy, these words are terrifying. In "jointly promoting ecological progress in the region", Hong Kong is also included in the region and is required to participate in promoting ecological progress, that is, to promote ecological progress as advocated by the Communist Party. In other words, Hong Kong has to follow the instructions of the Central Authorities and it cannot voice different 11096 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 opinions as harmony is the top priority, right? While Hong Kong is required to get involved, it is also required to pay millions of dollars to subsidize the hosting of a forum in which such consensus are to be fostered. Is this the case? Worse still, the consensus also includes "further promoting the closer relationship between the Mainland and Hong Kong and Macao" which is more horrifying.
Furthermore, Hong Kong is required to "persist in following the principle of liberalization and establishing a multi-level co-operation system". This point is even more terrifying because the word "multi-level" means the Central Authorities will control and influence Hong Kong at different levels, and they will decide on the future of Hong Kong. In that case, will Hong Kong have any status at all? As Hong Kong is influenced and controlled by so many provinces and municipalities and has to establish so many relationships of co-operation, our officials have to drink more Moutai and continue to be influenced by corrupt practices. (The buzzer sounded)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, I keep my word and will not talk about John TSANG anymore until at an appropriate time at the end of the debate. Chairman, you may have heard a poem with lines to this effect, "shoot the horse first in order to shoot its rider; capture the ring-leader first in order to capture all bandits". Of course, the Chief Secretary for Administration whom I am criticizing is not an emperor, she is the head of all public officials. Her position is similar to that of a prime minister or a chief of staff, actually more similar to the former. After the Chief Executive appointed the Chief Secretary, she would assume complete control and form a team of Principal Officials. Therefore, appointing the right people is one of the important functions of the Chief Secretary. Has the Chief Secretary exercised shrewd judgment in appointing officials? Probably not.
In fact, some ancient books of wisdom have explained this point clearly. Let me quote the example of GUAN Zhong who was a famous chancellor of the emperor. How did he assess the performance of someone like Chief Secretary Carrie LAM who is performing the role of a prime minister? The criterion is the ability to appoint the right person for the right job. This ability includes various aspects. It goes beyond whether Carrie LAM is a capable person herself or LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11097 whether she can tell who is not capable. It involves the ability to identify suitable candidates for replacement when necessary. SU Xun already mentioned this point in his book GUAN Zhong. In fact, the Chinese saying of "congratulate each other on the prospect of getting official posts" originated from the story of GUAN Zhong. What actually did SU Xun say? He said, "Once GUAN Zhong departed, the three bad guys would congratulate each other on the prospect of getting good appointments. GUAN Zhong thought that giving Emperor WEI a deathbed advice of not appointing these three people to any important positions would suffice. The truth is, the presence of the three bad guys was not a problem to the nation Qi, but the absence of GUAN Zhong was. If GUAN Zhong was there, the three bad guys would be nothing more than ordinary people who could not cause much harm".
GUAN Zhong criticized the three bad guys, and they were SHU Diao, YI Ya and KAI Fang. Colleagues of the Translation and Interpretation Division should not worry because I have provided the relevant information to facilitate their translation. Under the government system, if Carrie LAM knows that there are three public officials who are bad or incapable, should she tell LEUNG Chun-ying regardless of whether these officials are appointed by her? According to the passage quoted above, GUAN Zhong had fulfilled his responsibility to advise the emperor. GUAN Zhong told his master Emperor WEI that the three guys were bad and worthless and once GUAN Zhong died, they would seize power. Similarly, Carrie LAM must tell her master which three persons can replace the three bad guys.
Hence, we are fair, we understand that withholding one's salary is a big deal. If she fails to identify the right talents, how can she manage the state? She not only fails to identify the right talents, but also fails to tell her immediate superior which officials cannot remain in office and have to leave before her departure, and that person cannot replace her.
Therefore, I think Carrie LAM has failed right from the beginning. First, let me give an example. The incident of MAK Chai-kwong has sparked off a political crisis in the whole SAR Government. MAK was hand-picked by Carrie LAM as she considered him a person of integrity and a "good fighter", just like her. So she hand-picked him from the Civil Service and promoted him from a Permanent Secretary to an accountability official. However, problems had arisen after he failed to pass an integrity check. Just think, if Carrie LAM, being a high-ranking and influential government official, told others that there was no 11098 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 problem with MAK's integrity … and said that he was the Permanent Secretary under her supervision … do you think anyone will order … I got the answer after some enquiries. I found out that integrity checks are actually conducted by the police.
Just think, if a person, who is in a position similar to that of a prime minister, says that someone is her subordinate and her good friend and she wants to appoint him, will the police be so bold as to ask the Chief Secretary whether the person in question has sorted out his residential property issues? Will the police be bold enough as to tell the Chief Secretary that they have been informed that the person in question has cheated the Government of housing allowance? Will the police be bold enough to make such statement? Even if they will, will Carrie LAM believe in them? I am not trying to wrong her. After the disclosure of the incident involving MAK Chai-kwong, Carrie LAM immediately came forward and asked people to trust her, indicating that MAK was not that kind of person. Buddy, a person in the position of a prime minister was willing to undertake risk to save her friend ― if they were really friends ― but frankly speaking, how could she command respect of the people? She has staked her reputation on a wrong choice. After the incident, she has not come forward to apologize and so one incident happened after another.
Since MAK Chai-kwong, Carrie LAM's recommended official, has created such a mess, why should Franklin LAM be an exception? How can Carrie LAM reprimand other people? To put it simply, Carrie LAM cannot play the role of GUAN Zhong and says to LEUNG Chun-ying, "Your Majesty, your friend Franklin LAM is no good". She cannot do so, can she? To remedy the situation, she can criticize herself publicly. Although she cannot criticize herself publicly like what an emperor would do, she can at least apologize publicly. She should not call the incident a matter of miscommunications, as what Jay WALDER has said. Is that a good reason?
Since the first day Carrie LAM draws on this salary, she claims to be a "good fighter" … she tumbled after the incident of MAK Chai-kwong, but she did not apologize and so two departments were affected. Chairman, I have to tell you that civil servants, being members of an independent and professional team, should give advice impartially according to the established rules and systems, regardless of the opinions of politically appointed officials. Carrie LAM has already adversely affected civil servants because they notice that once a distinguished civil servant has become a member of the Policy Bureau, she has LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11099 become a totally different person. As they are also civil servants … anyway, after she has become the Chief Secretary, which is comparable to a prime minister, she has confused right and wrong in defending a member of her governing team, and she did not apologize for her mistakes. Is the Franklin LAM's incident inevitable? The answer is such incident is bound to happen. How then can she accuse others? If she points a finger at others, she is actually pointing four fingers at herself. For this reason, she should not receive her salary.
Let us consider "NG Tak-tim"3 who has also fallen as if a domino effect has been triggered. NG Tak-tim … NG Hak-kim ― excuse me for slurring, "Tai-fai", because I have spoken too much. Chairman, Eddie NG is another problem. He was appointed by the Emperor. The Emperor appointed someone engaged in the business of human resources to handle education. That is a mismatch because human resources management seeks to achieve savings in manpower and resources. But what is education, Chairman? As the saying goes, "It takes ten years to grow a tree, but a hundred years to nurture talents". Instead of focusing on the potential yield, farmers should just concentrate on growing trees. In time, they will be able to enjoy the fruits under the shade of the trees. Nurturing talents is a long-term task, yet Eddie NG, the miser, has been appointed to handle the task. The outcome is, as we can see, Eddie NG has been discussing education issues as if he is negotiating business deals. He talks to school principals the subject of 15-year free education, which is one of the highlights in LEUNG Chun-ying's election manifesto. Eddie NG is calculating and he likes to talk about money. In response to the complaint of teachers that they do not have time to pursue further studies, he talks about money again. This shows that LEUNG Chun-ying has failed to appoint the right people, mismatching lovers. Is this the case? Appointing a person who is good at making profits from deducting payments to others to handle a policy area which should not count the costs is a shocking failure.
Although Carrie LAM was aware of the problems, she remained silent, even so after the problems had emerged. Chairman, she responded to the incidents of Franklin LAM and Eddie NG in the same manner. Although Eddie NG made a big mistake in the national education incident, he was allowed to stay in his post and continue to make various mistakes. How then can 15-year free education be introduced as stated in the Chief Executive's election manifesto?
3 The name which sounds like NG Hak-kim, the Chinese name of Mr Eddie NG, means "no good". 11100 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
How then can small class teaching continue? Why is it that "Tai-fai" kept frowning during meetings of the Panel on Education? The problem lies in the personality of Eddie NG, but I will not blame him because he is not qualified to handle education. He lacks competence and moral integrity and what can we do about it? These examples show that Carrie LAM "lacks the ability to appraise people" as mentioned in GUAN Zhong, and even if she has the ability, she dares not tell her boss that the three men should be removed and she cannot say who should replace them after their departure. Am I right? That was the point made by SU Xun. This point which has been quoted for more than a thousand years throughout the world, is actually a simple doctrine of an official. Under the principle of "patriotism" advocated by the SAR Government … as we all know, the ancient Chinese bureaucratic system is actually more sophisticated than that of the Western European model. The bureaucratic system in the TANG Dynasty, drawn on the many years of past experience, was most sophisticated. Buddy, have you read about it? Chairman, this book Gu Wen Guan Zhi is very cheap. I will read it whenever I am filibustering because it is so boring. It is a nice surprise that I get some insights from the book. I am sorry, I should have said whenever I am "not" filibustering. So, I am not filibustering today, I am only reading …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please do not digress.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Alright. GUAN Zhong talked about Emperor WEI. Let me go back to Carrie LAM now. She has a problem of appraising people. Instead of resolving problems for LEUNG Chun-ying, she creates problems for him. Anthony CHEUNG, a professor of a university, has been authorized to take charge of the Transport and Housing Bureau, the most complex and problematic Policy Bureau in Hong Kong because he is a "supporter of LEUNG". The establishment of the Transport and Housing Bureau has been revised. As some people thought that there was an organic connection between transport and housing, they combined the two major policy areas. But, how can someone with no practical experience, or in vulgar terms, a political scoundrel or politico, been appointed as the Director of Bureau? Years ago, Anthony CHEUNG was an active member of the pan-democratic camp, he turned to the opposite camp later and rose to a high rank and he is now "earning a living" by working under LEUNG. What should we do? Problems will certainly arise. Anthony CHEUNG cannot resolve housing problems and as far as transport … LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11101
Mr Michael TIEN has left the transport sector. On the issue of transport, Carrie LAM had not issued any statement after learning what was said at the meeting of the Panel on Transport. She used to issue a statement in response to what I said each time, but after hearing what they said this time, she did not do so. Jay WALDER phoned the Secretary, asking him not to disclose the information that the works would be delayed because that would increase the construction costs of the railways. He asked the Secretary not to tell the truth. While the Secretary said that he made a mistake in his consideration, Jay WALDER said it was a matter of miscommunication. Buddy, one of them is bound to die, or the two of them can fight to the death. The whole story is flawed by weak arguments. Chairman, Carrie LAM, the prime minister, has a subordinate who is threatened by a mean fellow, an ordinary businessman and that businessman even queries the competence of the Secretary. He even said to the Secretary, if they honestly told the public the delay in the construction work of railways, funded by the Government, the contractors would increase the price.
How can an official act like that? Should integrity be the primary principle to uphold in implementing policies? Why did he not issue a statement? The Policy Bureau which he supervises is responsible for the management of the MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL) and the people of Hong Kong actually own 77% of its shares, how can we allow these two men to do as they please. Should we demand the official to be accountable in future? This is what will happen when no official is made accountable. Why is that so? The Marine Department completed the report on the marine disaster after two years and said that the report could not be disclosed and the Director of Marine did not have to apologize. Anthony CHEUNG finally resorted to offering an apology, but reiterated that the report could not be disclosed. That makes it impossible for the families of the deceased to seek compensation through civil proceedings. The officials have treated the interests of the public like dirt and remained silent all along. As an unimportant legislator, all I can do is to moan and groan, but the Government is so terrible that it has attacked me in blog posts. They give me a black look, and in a sorrowful and distressed look, they tell the public that Hong Kong is doomed if the Appropriation Bill cannot be passed.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, you have digressed.
11102 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): A public official should not reprimand Members (The buzzer sounded) … reprimand other officials instead. I will talk about this point later and she should pay to get to work.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please sit down.
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, in this speech, I will elaborate on the fifth amendment under this joint debate, that is, Amendment No 750 ― the numbering is correct this time. The amendment is to reduce head 142 by $772,800 in respect of subhead 000, that is, to reduce an amount equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure of the Central Policy Unit (CPU) on the Study on Trend of Discussions on Social and Political Issues in the Mass Media under the Office of the Chief Secretary for Administration.
Chairman, since LEUNG Chun-ying assumed office, the CPU has commissioned the One Country Two Systems Research Institute (OCTSRI) for three consecutive years including 2014-2015 …
(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung stood up)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, what is your point?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): A point of order. I note that a quorum is not present in the Chamber.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Gary FAN, please continue.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11103
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Just now I was saying that since LEUNG Chun-ying assumed office, the CPU has commissioned the OCTSRI for three consecutive years including 2014-2015 to conduct the Study on Trend of Discussions on Social and Political Issues in the Mass Media. The OCTSRI has received an accumulated funding of nearly $2 million. Chairman, over the past three years, the CPU has commissioned four organizations to conduct research. Three of them are the University of Hong Kong, The Chinese University of Hong Kong and the Guangdong University of Foreign Studies. The fourth one is the OCTSRI which is the only non-academic organization. This has inevitably aroused query as to whether the OCTSRI is academically qualified for the huge sum of funding by the Government.
Let us look up the information about the OCTSRI. Its incumbent Executive Director is Executive Council Member Mr CHEUNG Chi-kong, who has long been recognized as a true fan of LEUNG Chun-ying. What is the most widely known nickname for this Executive Director recently? He is given the nickname of "newbie pollster" by a local economist, Dr KWAN Cheuk-chiu.
In early March this year, Peter LEE, a member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) National Committee of the People's Republic of China, criticized at a CPPCC meeting that the The Public Opinion Programme (POP) of the University of Hong Kong provided a basis for the aspirations of the opposition camp. Being "LEUNG's fan", CHEUNG Chi-kong immediately stepped forward and criticized Dr Robert CHUNG, Director of POP, for being bias in the opinion polls on the Chief Executive. However, being a dabbler in opinion polls, Mr CHEUNG Chi-kong has repeatedly committed rookie mistakes in political science and gave comments that are not well supported academically. As a result, in the eyes of the community, the media, members of the public, especially academics in social science, Mr CHEUNG Chi-kong has a smattering of knowledge in opinion polls and holds a post without the required qualification. Chairman, according to the information obtained from the Executive Council website, CHEUNG Chi-kong is awarded a Bachelor of Social Sciences at The Chinese University of Hong Kong. His academic qualification pales in comparison to the persons in charge of other opinion poll organizations operated by universities. As such, the OCTSRI, being led by the newbie pollster CHEUNG Chi-kong, is not well qualified to be commissioned by the SAR Government to conduct the Study on Trend of Discussions on Social and Political Issues in the Mass Media.
11104 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Chairman, within the structure of the Government, the Local Public Relations Division of the Information Services Department has set up a Media Research Sub-division to keep the Government informed of public opinion as expressed in the print and electronic media, and in turn provides professional advice on public relations. In December 2013, LEUNG Chun-ying appointed Andrew FUNG as the Information Coordinator. Andrew FUNG, being remunerated at a monthly salary of $180,000, is dedicated to ensuring effective implementation of media and public relations strategy for major policies; monitoring public and media feedback; and helping to plan and implement the Chief Executive's programme of public functions involving media interactions. Chairman, within every Policy Bureau, there is a political assistant, remunerated at a monthly salary of over $100,000, dedicated to maintaining political liaison with different parties including the media and stakeholders from all sectors. Moreover, there are information and public relations units under 34 government departments and all bureaux which are tasked to enhance information transmission between the Government and the mass media, as well as the liaison between the Government and the public. Chairman, in the examples I just cited, they all involve the use of public money to assist government departments or posts engaged in the work related to the trend of discussions on social and political issues in the mass media. These departments should be capable and well-resourced to conduct the study in this regard. It is in fact not necessary for the SAR Government to commission the OCTSRI to conduct the Study on Trend of Discussions on Social and Political Issues in the Mass Media which costs some $700,000.
Chairman, before LEUNG Chun-ying took up the post of the Chief Executive, he had been engaged in the work of the OCTSRI and was even the Chairman of the Board of Directors; SHIU Sin-por, Head of the CPU, was once the Executive Director of the OCTSRI; and the incumbent Executive Director, CHEUNG Chi-kong, is serving on the Executive Council. All these have aroused our suspicion that the OCTSRI has been commissioned for three consecutive years to conduct the Study on Trend of Discussions on Social and Political Issues in the Mass Media owing to its affinity with LEUNG. The funding for the study amounting to almost $2 million over the past three years is obviously part of the political reward.
On behalf of the Neo Democrats, therefore, I propose to reduce the annual estimated expenditure for the CPU on the Study on Trend of Discussions on Social and Political Issues in the Mass Media. I also urge the Government to LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11105 disclose more information on the approval procedures and selection criteria of research funding, as well as the details about the Study on Trend of Discussions on Social and Political Issues in the Mass Media. With better understanding of the details, the Legislative Council will be able to decide whether the funding of some $700,000 is really reasonable and necessary, and examine the funding in the Budget in an effective way.
Chairman, I so submit.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, next I will speak on "Head 112 ― Legislative Council Commission". Though there is only one amendment, that is Amendment No 553, it is very important. Proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, the amendment reads "Resolved that head 112 be reduced by $37,253,760 in respect of subhead 366". The amount to be reduced is equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure for the remuneration of 35 Legislative Council Members returned by functional constituencies (FCs), including one Member who is the Chairman of the House Committee cum President's Deputy and three Members who serve on the Executive Council.
I believe this amendment is carefully designed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, who only proposes one amendment under this head. I hope that all those Members who support full-scale direct election and abolition of FCs will keep Amendment No 553 in mind and later on vote in support of this amendment. Members should approve and support this amendment proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung in order to show their determination in fighting for constitutional reform that complies with the principles of universality and equality. Moreover, as far as the abolition of FCs is concerned, this is a very crucial step.
Advocates for FCs have all along based their major argument on balanced participation. In their opinion, the purpose of establishing FC seats in the Legislative Council is to achieve balanced participation in the system of representative government, so as to strike a balance among the interests of different sectors. On the one hand, they claim that FCs, which include representatives from all major sectors in Hong Kong, are widely representative; but on the other hand, they opine that as the system of representative government 11106 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 is not yet mature, there is no other suitable mode in Hong Kong at the moment which can fully balance the interests of different sectors as the FCs do.
When we talk about this subject matter, we must first recap some history. Before the return of Hong Kong's sovereignty, that is, during the era of British colonial rule, Sir David AKERS-JONES, the then Chief Secretary, stated in 1985 that "The setting up of FCs is merely a transitional measure: that is to facilitate the transformation of an appointed legislative body into a directly elected one. The intention of the establishment of the FCs is to appease the business and professional interests, so as to provide them with extra temporary voting rights, and to ensure that their voices will be heard in Legislative Council". Such transitional measure has been implemented until now and Hong Kong has waited for 30 years. However, it is still uncertain whether genuine universal suffrage will be implemented and whether Hong Kong people have equal rights to vote and to be elected. Why has the transitional measure of FCs still be implemented to date? Why do we still discuss the existence of FCs at this moment? Even if Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung's amendment is passed and the remunerations of such Members are slashed, they can still represent their respective sectors without pay and continue to carry out their functions in the Council.
Some academics have pointed out earlier that the system of returning representatives to the Council by FCs is usually adopted by governments with low legitimacy as a means to stabilize the political situation. Those in power allow voices of different sectors to be heard in the assembly and a share of political power between the government and different sectors, so as to gain support for the government. However, history tells us that there are very few successful cases of the so-called share of political power because social unrest and political instability cannot be solved simply by such interdependent relations. The legitimacy of the government is also a key factor. Therefore, we fight for genuine universal suffrage in 2017 and the abolition of FCs. FCs only allow balanced participation within a small circle. While balanced participation is achieved in this small circle, the balance in the whole society is undermined.
In terms of the constitutional system, FCs have in fact lost the support of the general public long ago. But more importantly, the whole Council has thus lost its credibility because the voting results of the Legislative Council have distorted public opinions due to the presence of FCs. I do not have to give detailed explanation on this. With the existence of FCs as well as the separate voting system, the decision of the majority of the Council can be negatived by LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11107 only 18 people. There are in fact great discrepancies between the idea of "balanced" in the so-called "balanced participation" of FCs and the principles of universality and equality. Both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights provide that every citizen shall have the right to vote and to be elected at genuine periodic elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage, so as to ensure that electors can freely express their wishes. Obviously, the presence of FCs is not in compliance with the above principles because the rights to vote and to be elected do not exist in the form of universality and equality.
If FCs are really set up to reflect the views of the sectors, why are there corporate votes that deprive industry players of their election rights? Even if we measure the present FCs with their own "ruler", they are still small circles within small circles. Even those belonging to FCs are discontented with the system. Let me cite some simple examples. Why are real estate agents not eligible to vote in the real estate and construction FC? Why is the "King" in the insurance sector not entitled to vote but only those representatives from hundred-odd insurance companies are given voting rights? The finance services sector is even represented by less than 1% of the industry. Furthermore, corporate votes may manipulate elections. Assuming that I will not have any children but Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung will have, vote-rigging is not possible in general direct elections even if Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung has become a father to triplet babies. He can only get three extra votes after 18 years. On the contrary, under the system of corporate votes, it is easy to multiply one vote into 10 as long as someone is willing to unbundle his company into subsidiaries. Corporate votes seriously undermine fairness in elections. No wonder we have been hearing more and more remarks that have "human touch". Even Frederick MA, a former senior government official, also comments that the corporate votes of some FCs should be abolished.
In addition, the so-called balanced participation is in no way balanced in terms of distribution. Even members within the FCs have expressed their dissatisfaction. Therefore, for those FC Members who would like to come out of the darkness into the light, please mark down the number, Amendment No 553, and show your support later on.
What are balanced participation and representativeness of sectors? We have in fact debated on this question during our discussion about the nominating committee. Let us take the Agriculture and Fisheries FC as an example. Is the 11108 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Member representing this FC present now? Taking into account the share in GDP, the business sector has made more contribution to society and therefore its representatives, both in this Council or in the Chief Executive election, will have a louder voice. On the contrary, the agriculture and fisheries sector is 500 times smaller than the education sector and its share in GDP is not particularly large. How come its FC still takes one seat out of the 35 seats? Regarding the representativeness of the Member ― I am not targeting the existing Member elected ― we all know that Members returned by FCs are not required to be actively engaged in their respective sector. As long as they have some connection and get associated with the sector, they can become a representative.
This shows that even members within the FCs consider the distribution of FC seats unfair and uneven. For those sectors with celebrities such as the Sports, Performing Arts, Culture and Publication FC, their case is baffling. I have no idea how the four sectors involved in this FC can achieve balanced participation and representation. If the Government suggests that the Bureau under Gregory SO be divided into two, then should the Sports, Performing Arts, Culture and Publication FC be divided by increasing the number of FCs? As far as the constitutional reform is concerned, the problem of FCs certainly has an impact on the nominating committee. This is also the root of the problem because the four sectors of the nominating committee are mainly derived from FCs. As a result, the nomination right of electors in these sectors is many times bigger than that of general electors. Do we think that the next generation and young people in Hong Kong will accept this so-called "genuine universal suffrage"? With the permanent retention of FCs and the persistent limitation imposed on the so-called universal suffrage for the Chief Executive election by a closed system under a screening mechanism, can we still talk things out? That is why Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung has proposed Amendment No 553 to slash the remunerations of all the 35 Members.
Of course some people may say that the existence of FCs is to allow the voices of the professional sectors to be heard. However, without FCs, does it mean that doctors are not represented in the Legislative Council? Of course it does not. For example, Dr KWOK Ka-ki was once a Member returned by FCs but he is now returned by direct elections. Are there no lawyers in the Legislative Council? Of course this is not the case. A lot of lawyers have run for direct elections and Dr Priscilla LEUNG is one of the Members returned by direct election who has a legal background. Mr Paul TSE was once a Member returned by FC but he subsequently ran for direct election. Are there no LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11109 representatives from the business sector? Of course this is not the case. Mr James TIEN and Mr Michael TIEN are returned by direct elections. I am not going to cite all the examples. Of course it is the strategy of some parties to fight every inch of the way in order to gain as many seats as possible by running for FC election as well. If they sweep more than half of the seats of FCs, they may then veto the FCs. Of course I think this is just a dream. I am not sure whether those who had such a dream still hold on to it today. When it comes to voting, I would like to ask those Members who have been supporting the abolition of FCs to stay here and vote for this amendment.
Is Hong Kong really in lack of political talents? We certainly do not think so. As long as there is a fair system and a platform, even people from the business sector or the professional sector may run for direct election or even the Chief Executive election. If people can see that there are political prospects and elections are not just small circles where relationship rules, they will be willing to take part in elections. Apart from the Chief Executive election, it is also important for the Legislative Council to have genuine universal suffrage. In our view, this is not only the basic political right of Hong Kong people, but a prerequisite factor to improve governance. As such, reducing the annual estimated expenditure for the remunerations of FC Members will in fact help Hong Kong by expediting the pace of democratization.
We can all see that FCs are in a weak position with low legitimacy. Neither the pro-establishment camp nor the pan-democratic camp should support the Government blindly. They will definitely be ousted if they still have such an old mindset. I therefore think that the retention of FCs is meaningless. While we cannot deal with the abolition of FCs during the scrutiny of the Budget as it is an issue about constitutional reform, we may reduce government expenditure. We may reduce the remunerations of FC Members, but not their power. They may continue to vote in the Council. However, if they are money-minded, they may not be willing to become Members without any pay. This is their own choice.
In conclusion, the continued existence of the FCs will only deepen the politicization of professional institutions and chambers of commerce. Those professionals who do not belong to the pro-establishment camp will be depicted as the opposition camp. Even if they are unwilling to oppose the Government, they cannot express their standpoint in public. It is already an open secret that the professional sector has been facing threats and inducements, thus gradually 11110 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 losing its independence and credibility. If they vote in support of a motion that is against public opinion, this will undermine not only the image of the Legislative Council, but also that of sectors, thus leading to division of society. As such, I hope that Members will support Amendment No 553 to reduce an amount of $37,253,760. While the amount involved is not significant, it carries a great symbolic significance in political terms.
Chairman, I so submit.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, just now I have talked about the reduction of the estimated expenditure for the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau on promoting the Basic Law. I would like to talk a little more … No, it should be the Pan-Pearl River Delta Regional Co-operation and Development Forum (the PPRD Forum). Excuse me. There are really too many issues. I would like to talk more on the PPRD Forum I mentioned just now.
From the outcome and the so-called "consensus" reached by the Ninth PPRD Forum, we can clearly see that the needs and interests of the Mainland or the whole Pan-Pearl River Delta are akin to or more important than the interests of Hong Kong. Such mindset should never be supported because the government officials of Hong Kong responsible for planning ― especially Paul CHAN, a LEUNG's fan now in-charge of the Development Bureau ― as well as the Planning Department would definitely make planning for Hong Kong in accordance with the consensus. I believe that the consequences of Hong Kong being "planned" are disastrous. Therefore, we should not support the Forum but should instead oppose and forbid Hong Kong officials to attend the meetings concerned, although such meetings are held in the Mainland.
It is unreasonable to ask Hong Kong people to pay $7.1 million incurred by the PPRD Forum. It would be more desirable if this $7-odd million is used to buy canned mud carp for the elderly. It is unreasonable to ask Hong Kong people to pay for the "show" performed by the communist officials and to draw a conclusion using communist jargons and wordings. We should therefore raise objection. Chairman, not many people have noticed this problem. I am so LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11111 worried about such situation, which will, if allowed to continue, lead to the fall of Hong Kong very soon.
Chairman, next I would like to speak on Amendment No 795, which reads "Resolved that head 144 be reduced by $3,984,000 in respect of subhead 000". The amount reduced is equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure for disturbance allowance of the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau. Chairman, my justifications are consistent and so my speech will not be too long.
As what I have stressed in my previous speech, I oppose the setting up of numerous Mainland offices by the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau because such offices fail to perform their functions. As such, I propose to delete the disturbance allowance as well because it is unreasonable to retain the estimated expenditure for such allowance under the head if I propose to shut down the Mainland offices set up by the Bureau.
Chairman, disturbance allowance is paid to a civil servant when he/she is posted outside Hong Kong and returns to Hong Kong on completion of an external posting. The purpose of the allowance is to compensate the officer for incidental expenses that may arise from an external posting and changes in living environment. Generally, it is a one-off allowance payable when the officer is posted outside or returns to Hong Kong. Under the current arrangement, the rate of disturbance allowance payable to a married officer accompanied by his/her family is 60% of the top point of the Master Pay Scale or 100% of his/her substantive monthly salary, whichever is the greater. A single or unaccompanied married officer will receive 50% of this rate. We can see that disturbance allowance is subject to the regulation of a well-established regime.
Chairman, there has been a substantial increase in the expenditure incurred by disturbance allowance, which may be possibly due to the rising number of officials involved. The expenditure incurred over the years are sufficient to buy many canned mud carp for the elderly. I hope Mr WONG Kwok-hing will pay more regard to this problem. The expenditure on disturbance allowance was $1,690,000 in 2011-2012, which increased to $2,000,000 in 2012-2013, but dropped to $1,690,000 in 2013-2014. However, the expenditure has drastically increased to $3,980,000 this year. On average, each civil servant involved can get an allowance of $300,000. Some of them are Administrative Officers, while some are civil servants of different ranks including officials responsible for trade affairs and immigration. I propose to delete the expenditures altogether.
11112 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Earlier, I have suggested providing online or hotline services. For example, the "Dr Ruth" hotline mentioned by "Long Hair" is quite good, which is similar to the idea of "Tutor Hotline". Given that sex consultation can be provided through telephone, we can surely provide the relevant services through telephone hotline as well. Dr Ruth was well known in my generation ― maybe a number of colleagues are not familiar with her ― She is a famous Jewish old lady who answered questions about sex on the phone.
Chairman, next I would like to discuss Amendment No 783 proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung. I am making rapid progress! The Amendment reads "Resolved that head 144 be reduced by $16,000,000 in respect of subhead 000". The amount reduced is equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure on the promotion of the Basic Law by the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, which is as high as $16 million. The Government also spends large sums of money on other promotion efforts. It has been disclosed in a press report that a seminar on the Basic Law was in fact a free luncheon, part of the expenditure being borne by the Hong Kong Government, part by the District Councils and part by the sponsors. The Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong (DAB) is an expert in offering snake feasts, vegetarian feasts, moon cakes and rice dumplings …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, you have strayed away from the question.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): In fact, the promotion of the Basic Law can be carried out by the DAB so as to save public money. Given that public money has to be used, the DAB can raise $13 million with only a painting …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, this is the 29th time that you speak. Please do not stray away from the question.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I am not repeating anything.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11113
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Please do not stray away from the question.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I am only using the current subject matter to put forward my ideas.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Even so, you are still straying away from the question.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I am just sharing my deepest feelings with you.
Chairman, spending $16 million on promoting the Basic Law is indeed a waste of money. Recently, the submission made by the Hong Kong Bar Association was immediately reported on newspaper headlines and repeatedly broadcast on radio and television, as well as widely discussed in phone-in programmes, forums, seminars, and so on. The publicity through news reports is definitely more effective than spending $16 million by the Government on promoting the Basic Law because the former is much more entertaining and controversial. In my opinion, if we want the public to show concern about a certain subject matter, that subject matter must be entertaining and controversial in order to arouse public concern. But to our surprise, the Government's approach is dull and boring.
Earlier, I walked past an exhibition promoting the Basic Law and I found that no one was attracted to take a glance. If some souvenirs like pens are given out … in some promotion exhibitions organized in the past, respondents who completed a questionnaire would be given a souvenir and basically people completed the questionnaire only for the souvenirs. Instead of doing any promotion, the Government should arrange some organizations (such as the royalists) or academics to express their views on one or two subjects. This will then attract wide coverage by reporters. There is absolutely no need to spend money on promoting the Basic Law.
What makes matters worse is that with more promotion from the Government, the public have less confidence. The result is counterproductive. On the contrary, if community groups or the opposition camp express their views, 11114 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 people will have more confidence. If the Government tries to carry out the promotion in official capacity by using public money, people will just have less confidence. Such practice should be stopped. Such a waste of money must be stopped.
What sort of programmes will be carried out with the estimated expenditure of $16 million? About $4.3 million is earmarked for using electronic media targeted the general public, such as Announcements in the Public Interest on television and radio; about $10 million is earmarked for enhancing public awareness and understanding of the Basic Law through promotional activities at the district level, such as roving exhibitions; about $0.6 million is earmarked for strengthening co-operation with community groups in staging promotional activities, such as seminars and debate competitions. In addition, extra manpower is recruited to set up a team led by a Principal Assistant Secretary and supported by four officers. However, such job will likely be very boring and I believe these officers will resign very soon. In fact, the job is not necessary at all, especially when Hong Kong is now ruled by lies. Nobody will have confidence in it.
Earlier, LI Fei came to Hong Kong to discuss issues related to the Basic Law. In the absence of government officials, more discussion will be carried out in the community and public awareness will be enhanced. Owing to the above reasons, we firmly oppose spending $10-odd million.
Moreover, I am worried that transfer of benefits may be involved because we are not sure which organizations will be responsible for the job. Chairman, the Mega Events Fund also involves the transfer of benefits and the results of the investigation conducted by the police and the Independent Commission Against Corruption are yet to be released. So problems will also arise in the promotion activities of the Basic Law. The luncheon I mentioned just now may not be paid by using this provision because it was organized by the District Councils. I remember that the District Councils have organized similar activities in which some celebrities have expressed their views. Some of them actually …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, you have strayed away from the question.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11115
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I have not strayed away from the question because this involves a waste of public money. This is obviously a kind of … Chairman, transfer of benefits is the reason for my objection. My arguments are definitely sound and justified. Based on these reasons, I must raise my objection.
In addition, I have looked up some information but cannot find any clues on the number of people who have viewed the roving exhibitions because the Administration has not provided the relevant information. The Audit Commission should really review this problem. I remember that if we succeed in getting funding from the District Councils for organizing certain activities, we are required to fill in the number of participants. There are also random checks to review the actual situation of the activities. We are not allowed to simply spend the public money without a review. Although the activities concerned are planned by civil servants, the non-disclosure of relevant figures is never a normal practice for spending public money. For this reason, I must raise my objection.
Chairman, not many Members are present at the meeting. Maybe we should do a headcount. Chairman, please do a headcount. Mr WONG Kwok-hing is not present again.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Albert CHAN, please continue.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, next I would like to discuss Amendment No 371, that reads resolved that head 74 be reduced by $190,800,000 in respect of subhead 000. The amount reduced is equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure on local public relations and public information by the Information Services Department.
Chairman, as my arguments on this part are more comprehensive and important, I will discuss the significance of the proposed reduction after "Long 11116 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Hair" finishes his speech. The proposed reduction is particular meaningful in the political sense and is closely related to the governance of the Government, accountability system of principal officials, as well as the development of the governance of the whole Government.
I will speak on this proposed reduction later.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
(THE CHAIRMAN'S DEPUTY, MR ANDREW LEUNG, took the Chair)
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, just now I spoke on the reduction of the remuneration of Chief Secretary Carrie LAM. One of her biggest mistakes is that she, being the head of all the government officials of Hong Kong, fails to keep a close eye on her subordinates, thus weakening the governing authority of the SAR Government.
I pointed out that Chief Secretary Carrie LAM used to make strong-worded statements to indicate her authority. If she does what she says, or exercises strict self-discipline before judging others, her statements will be effective. But the problem is that Chief Secretary Carrie LAM has not done so. Whenever a Director of Bureau makes a mistake, she does not come out immediately to point out the mistake or instruct the Director of Bureau to make corresponding arrangements. In other words, she does not admit the mistake committed. This will definitely further undermine the Government's authority.
Take the recent MTR incidents as an example. Paul CHAN can remain in his post despite public uproar on two occasions. How is that possible? It is because Carrie LAM is just the same kind of person, talking a lot but doing nothing, showing no concern for her failure and refusing to admit the mistakes committed. Here is a simple example. When Chief Secretary Carrie LAM was still a Director of Bureau and was in charge of the Kowloon East Development, most of the current development projects in Kowloon East were planned by her. Of course, I know that admitting one's mistake …
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11117
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, how is a recap of what the Chief Secretary for Administration did in the past related to your present proposal of reducing her remuneration?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): They are related because she refuses to admit her mistakes, and such mistakes continue to ferment. I guess Miss CHAN Yuen-han has become exhausted trying to push the Government. Although the Government has provided a blueprint on Kowloon East, it has done nothing. Let me cite a very simple example. The two "madams" who had been in the same post did not admit their mistakes. The airport opening chaos occurred when old Mrs CHAN was in office. Instead of admitting her mistakes, she claimed that the public and the situation were to be blamed. How majestic-looking she was. All she has is obscene power, the meaning of obscene power is not what you have thought, the word "obscene" just means "too large" …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, you have strayed away from the question. Can you focus your speech on the amendments?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Please do not misunderstand the meaning of "obscene power", which means unchecked …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I have reminded you not to stray away from the question. Please focus your speech on the amendments covered in this joint debate.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Both of them refused to admit their blunders and that is their common mistake …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): You are now requesting for a reduction of the Chief Secretary for Administration's salary. Please speak on this.
11118 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Alright. Maybe you are too sober-minded and do not understand what I am saying. When the whole world can see the mistake committed by an official, no matter how high ranking he is, the mistake made will not disappear simply because the official has been promoted to a higher rank. How can you expect your subordinate to admit a mistake he has committed if you deny your own mistake? For example, when we ask Prof Anthony CHEUNG to admit his mistake, he may think that he has done nothing wrong; or even if he has, he will not admit.
Deputy Chairman, I guess you also very well understand that if you chair the House Committee meeting in a way like Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok does, do you think I will trust you? I will of course protest against you. As you do not chair the meeting in that way, I trust you. The rationale is that simple. If the boss is doing well, the subordinates will follow suit. After Carrie LAM has assumed the post of the Chief Secretary, her attitude remains the same. She fails to address the problem of "sub-divided units" but has never apologized for her failure. She and Paul CHAN proposed to revitalize industrial buildings and build 10 000 "sub-divided units" that are suitable to live in. But subsequently she failed to make any accomplishment, yet she did not give any explanation nor admit her mistake. She simply told us that the Development Bureau considered the proposal infeasible and the cost was too high. If this is the case, why was the proposal put forward in the first place? Based on this point, I think the bureaucratic system of Hong Kong is defective.
Deputy Chairman is right in saying that it does not help to talk too much on something in the past. This is true. So I will now talk about new matters. After she has assumed office, she has focused on three major policy areas: (1) population policy; (2) poverty alleviation; and (3) constitutional reform. Let me make an assessment on her competence in these three policy areas. On poverty alleviation, her only notable achievement is the setting of a poverty line, that is, defining the poverty stricken population as those living below the median income of Hong Kong. Let us not talk about whether such definition is appropriate because median is a concept in mathematics which divides the population into the upper and lower groups. But what is the extent of poverty for the lower group? That is, what is the extent of poverty for people whose income is below the median? This is a very important point.
We cannot say that we have now identified the poor because we have adopted a new way for measurement. Buddy, if we buy a thermometer and the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11119 reading shows that the temperature is 28°C or 32°C, will you simply say that it is good to know that the temperature is now 32°C. If you feel hot, will you not take off some clothes or turn on the air-conditioning? Or will you do nothing after you have measured the temperature? Now Carrie LAM has set the poverty line. She is the Chief Secretary and there is another Secretary for Department sitting next to her, that is, John TSANG, who has been scolded by me for seven times. Has John TSANG followed her instructions? Within the bureaucratic system, she is above John TSANG.
While she talks about poverty alleviation, she does not know the actual living situation of the poor after she has adopted a way to figure out the size of the poor population. As the poor population definitely exists in society, what measures have been put in place to improve their livelihood? Deputy Chairman, if the median is used as a measurement, we will definitely have a group of poor people, unless we adopt the actual amount of income as the basis for measurement. For example, if the line is set at the average annual income of $220,000, people whose annual income is below $220,000 are defined as poor. Her only achievement is to find out this fact. But she has not figured out how to improve the living conditions of those who always belong to the lower class. She has not worked out any new initiatives.
Deputy Chairman, since you are the Chairman of the House Committee but not the Finance Committee, you may not know many details. What has she done? The Old Age Living Allowance is a benevolent policy of LEUNG Chun-ying. Now we also have the Low-income Working Family Allowance (LIFA). This is very amusing. Why? There are endless strategic goals but none of them can be achieved. The Government said at the beginning that this was a measure to prevent inter-generational poverty. What does it mean? Does it mean that poverty in this generation need not be addressed?
Deputy Chairman, let me tell you that "prevention of inter-generational poverty" is a very mean remark. Why is the Government unwilling to spend money to help the existing elders? It is because these elders will not cause the problem of inter-generational poverty as they will soon kick the bucket. How can they pass on the poverty to the next generations after they die? How mean and caustic it is! Whenever inter-generational poverty is brought up, how should the elders be positioned? Under the first definition made by the Government, only children are taken care of while the elders are being neglected. As elders cannot react quickly, they will not get angry after hearing such remark. On the face of it, the Government claims that children should be treated nicely. 11120 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
How about the elders? At present, there is no universal retirement protection because she considers that it is a problem of inter-life poverty instead of inter-generational poverty. When elders die, they will go to the next life after reincarnation and that will be inter-life poverty. So it is more important to protect children. How brilliant!
Therefore, my criticisms on her are justified. Being the one responsible for poverty alleviation, she made mistakes immediately when she started to speak. As the Deputy Chairman may also be aware, we have heated arguments in this Council on why so many elders are not given institutional care or cannot make ends meet due to the blunders made by the Government. We have been making a lot of efforts in this respect. However, she made a mistake at the outset. So the LIFA has nothing to do with the elders, right? A person with children will be granted $800 each. She has really helped children, but has she helped the elders as well?
Deputy Chairman, let me tell you a figure which will piss you off. The elders account for one third of the poor population. Unlike the elderly, children's ability to earn money will increase as they grow up. On the contrary, the elders' ability to earn money will decrease with the passage of time, and ultimately, they fall in abject poverty. In this sense, do you agree that the Chief Secretary has taken the wrong medicine? Instead of helping those helpless people who cannot improve their own living, she puts the priority to help those who have the potential to improve their living. In fact, assistance should be provided to both the children and elders. But she lays emphasis on helping children to address inter-generational poverty and neglects those who experience inter-life poverty. Will you piss off after learning this? The rationale is very simple. Carrie LAM is very harsh, she often criticizes me and instructs the President on how to discipline Members. I would like to share with her a remark made by Theophrastus, an ancient Greek philosopher, on preserved silence (I quote): "If you are an ignorant man, you are acting wisely; but if you have had any education, you are behaving like a fool" (End of quote). Why do I apply this remark on Carrie LAM? If she is ignorant, she should keep her mouth shut; but since she is well educated, she should not remain silent when she finds injustice.
Deputy Chairman, I have learnt about a lot of family tragedies in the community as a result of this mistake. For example, most core families in Hong Kong consist of a couple who have to maintain their parents as well as their children. Now the Government announces that the next generation is to be LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11121 saved by addressing inter-generational poverty. Then do they need to maintain their parents? An irreparable rift is thus created. This is what the Government teaches us: inter-generational poverty is not permissible and we should try our best to help our next generation; nonetheless, we do not need to take care of our grandparents because they do not belong to the inter-generational relationship. Is this appropriate? Don't we often promote caring for the elderly and treating senior citizens well because they have made much contribution? Carrie LAM has made a critical mistake in the poverty alleviation work. When the Commission on Poverty discussed about LIFA, she could not make appropriate responses. Sometimes she said it is necessary to preserve employment. Honestly, even if I do not criticize her, she should feel sorry about this. Now she has another new goal. When the asset tests are conducted, the total overall household income is to be assessed, as such, some families are not eligible for the allowance; yet the requirement of 208 working hours per month is not to be counted based on the whole family. She advised that this is not feasible because people will lose the incentive to work if they are allowed to add up the working hours of the whole family. How mean she is! And the policy is unclear.
Deputy Chairman, a couple would have more time to take care of their children and more parent-child interaction if they can get a monthly allowance of $1,000 by only working 144 hours instead of 208 hours a month. The middle class attach great importance on parent-child interaction, enrolling their children to study tours, and so on; but the poor do not even have time to see their children. The father needs to work two shifts and when he comes home at 11 pm, his children are already in bed. He does not even have the chance to take a glance of his children's homework. Can we allow them to work two hours less so as to prevent inter-generational poverty? While Carrie LAM would also take a flight to visit her son, other people do not have the chance to go home early to see their sons. What kind of policy is this?(The buzzer sounded)
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Next I would like to speak on "Head 72 ─ Independent Commission Against Corruption" …
(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung stood up)
11122 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, what is your question?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): A point of order. I request a headcount.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please continue.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, in this debate session, I would like to speak on "Head 72 ─ Independent Commission Against Corruption". This head involves as many as 13 amendments, from Amendment Nos 357 to 369. Before I spell out the justifications in support of these 13 amendments, I would like to review whether the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) can achieve the objectives for the programmes under this head and whether the estimated expenditure is reasonable.
As we all know, the ICAC's task is to fight corruption. But its task is not limited to this. There are four Programmes under head 72, which include "Programme (1) Corruption Prevention", "Programme (2) Operations", "Programme (3) Preventive Education" and "Programme (4) Enlisting Support". The aim of "Corruption Prevention" is to "identify and eliminate opportunities for corruption in government departments and public bodies, and advise the private sector on corruption prevention". The expenditure on this part is not much. The largest expenditure is of course on "Programme (2) Operations" which amounts to $707 million in 2013-2014.
On "Programme (3) Preventive Education", precept is indeed more important than example. The aim of "Preventive Education" is to "promote better public understanding of the corruption problem and encourage target groups to take positive action". Later I will talk about the deteriorating image of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11123 the ICAC in recent years and its failure to set a good example. The ICAC can hardly convince the public if it preaches one thing but practises another.
I notice that under "Programme (3) Preventive Education", the original estimate for 2013-2014 is $82 million but the actual expenditure on preventive education is only $76 million, representing a decrease of 7% compared with the original estimate. We are perplexed why the ICAC had not spent all the provision allocated. Is there a lack of diligence or dereliction of duty on the part of the ICAC? I must point out that under "Programme (3) Preventive Education", the ICAC has listed out "Matters Requiring Special Attention in 2014-2015", one of which is to "launch a series of education and publicity activities for the rural elections scheduled for early 2015 … to uphold integrity and fairness in the elections".
Have we read the cover story of a weekly magazine today? It is about some Rural Committee members ― local tyrants in the New Territories ― who travelled to Vietnam together to patronize prostitutes. The actual expenditure on Programme (3) last year was 7% less than the original estimate. I hope the ICAC will pay more attention to the area of work claimed to be important and not just mere talk.
Regarding "Programme (4) Enlisting Support", what is "Enlisting Support"? If I do not explain, Members may not understand what it means. Let me first talk about the actual expenditure. Under this Programme, the actual expenditure of $78.8 million is 7% less than the original estimate of $84.6 million. "Enlisting Support" means to "promote public awareness of the evils of corruption, foster public confidence in and support for the work of the ICAC, and encourage reporting of corruption offences".
To the ICAC, 2013 is a precarious year. I cannot understand why the actual expenditure of the ICAC on the Programme of "Enlisting Support" is less than the original estimate. Is it because the ICAC considers it necessary to save the money for future use since its image last year was so bad that any efforts made will be just like throwing money into the sea? Does it think that any Announcements in the Public Interest will not have any effect subsequently?
Why do we propose to slash all the estimated expenditure for the ICAC? The harshest amendment is to reduce the estimated expenditure on the salaries of ICAC staff from $761.5 million to $100. In fact, the annual estimated 11124 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 expenditure for the ICAC as a whole is only $937.1 million. As the publicity goes, "Hong Kong ― Our Advantage is the ICAC". But why are we so cruel and support the amendment proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung? It is because the whole ICAC, from top to down, ― I am not using harsh words ― is suffering from a complete dysfunction. When the ICAC staff fail to maintain their integrity, how can the ICAC play the role of promoting anti-corruption in our society? How can the ICAC be qualified to seek approval from this Council for a funding of some $700 million for its anti-corruption operations?
Let us not talk about the distant incidents, let me first talk about the recent cases. At the meeting of the Panel on Security (the Panel) held yesterday, the representatives from the ICAC briefed us the problem of cross-boundary corruption. Panel members have of course asked about the case of "covetous TSANG". I asked whether the case was regarded as cross-boundary corruption. The case of "covetous TSANG" is definitely cross-boundary corruption because TSANG accepted hospitality in the Mainland and he is inextricably linked with Mainland tycoons. However, the ICAC has not yet given an account of the investigation progress of the case of "covetous TSANG", our former Chief Executive.
When senior officials from the ICAC attended the Panel meeting yesterday, members raised questions on whether the investigation was still in progress, whether Donald TSANG has helped in the investigation, and whether the ICAC has interviewed Donald TSANG, and so forth. Can we guess the replies given by the ICAC representatives? Mr Ryan WONG of the ICAC refused to disclose anything on the reason that he was not in the position to comment on individual cases. However, despite his refusal to admit anything, he subsequently replied that "the case is still in progress".
In the past, the ICAC had a very good image. We certainly think that the ICAC has a better image than the Police Force. Whenever ICAC says "we will continue our investigation", the public will be relieved. However, in the reply yesterday, the ICAC senior official advised that "the case is still in progress". I have no idea what sort of reply this is. He should have said "our investigation is still in progress". What is the result then? Both the Council and the public are deeply worried whether subsequently there will be no follow-up on the case of "covetous TSANG". We are also worried whether the ICAC will only fight against the "flies" but not the "tigers" or "crocodiles". While the credibility of the ICAC has not yet gone to pot, it has lost much credibility compared with the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11125 past. Even after the new Commissioner, Mr Simon PEH, has assumed office, there are various traces which make us doubtful if the ICAC can get rid of the past bad practices and bring order out of chaos.
Last year, the ICAC advised in its reply that no investigation would be conducted on Barry CHEUNG's involvement in the case of forged documents of the Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange. According to the ICAC, the complaint was only based on press information which was insufficient to initiate an investigation. The ICAC further advised that such decision had been agreed by the Operations Review Committee. Nonetheless, according to past practice, the ICAC would initiate investigation in certain cases disclosed by the media, including the case of former Secretary for Development, MAK Chai-kwong, who was suspected of cheating on government rent allowance. For example, I think the ICAC should initiate investigation into a case reported by a weekly magazine this week. The decision of the ICAC in the current case is really puzzling. The ICAC often advises that investigation is not initiated because it is impossible to trace the sources. This will in fact undermine the credibility of the ICAC and push us to support the 13 amendments proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung. Why has the ICAC changed its past practice? Does the ICAC think that the excuse of "not to comment on individual cases" can explain everything? There are more and more similar cases.
At the Panel meeting held yesterday, members pointed out the falling credibility of the ICAC caused by its former Commissioner, "covetous TONG", and it has yet to recover. "Covetous TONG" abused his power and curried the favour of powerful people in the Mainland by giving luxury banquets and refreshments, thus arousing great public indignation and seriously tarnishing the ICAC's image.
In addition, SONG Lin, former chairman of the China Resources Holdings cum the Secretary General of the Party Committee, is being investigated for suspected grave violations of discipline and law. SONG held a number of public offices in Hong Kong, including the post of the Chairman of the ICAC Ethics Development Advisory Committee (EDAC). But it was only after the news had been disclosed for a few days that the ICAC replaced SONG with someone else on the reason that he was no longer suitable for the post.
The Commissioner of ICAC, Simon PEH, explained that the EDAC was comprised of six local chambers of commerce and it happened that it was the turn 11126 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 of SONG Lin to take up the post of Chairman. SONG's chamber of commerce informed the ICAC that SONG was no longer suitable for the post of Chairman and his appointment was subsequently dismissed upon the agreement of the other five chambers of commerce. Simon PEH further explained that the EDAC plays a bridging role through which the ICAC may keep contact with member companies of the chambers of commerce and small and medium enterprises. The work of ethics development is carried out by the ICAC staff.
In other words, the name of the EDAC carries no significance at all and its members are not required to uphold ethics because they only play a bridging role. In Cantonese, if the character "橋 " ("kiu4") in the term "橋 樑 "(meaning bridge), is pronounced slightly off the tone, it will become "kiu2", which carries the meaning of making an expedient excuse. The advisory role of the EDAC is only a pretence with fake consultation. We have no idea why meetings are held if the members only gather and meet one another while the work of ethics development is still carried out by the ICAC staff. It is just like the current constitutional reform which pretends to carry out consultation. The EDAC is also pretending to carry out consultation and the so-called "preventive education" is actually implemented with the ICAC's own resources.
Instead of saying that the recent incident of SONG Lin has further exposed the belated awareness of the ICAC and has embarrassed the ICAC, I would rather say that the ICAC has decayed long ago. We should express the regret of all the Legislative Council Members about the ICAC by supporting the relevant amendments.
At the Panel meeting held yesterday, a member cited a report by the Mainland media about a general secretary of state-owned enterprise discipline committee who had arranged a secret meeting with senior officials of the ICAC through the Liaison Office of the Central People's Government in the HKSAR. The purpose is to exert pressure on the ICAC regarding a certain case. Of course some other members opined that we should not regard magazines as the imperial edict, treating everything reported on magazines as true, and raise doubts on the ICAC based on the reports. How did Ryan WONG reply? He denied such reports and pointed out that this was absolutely not the case. However, when the ICAC was further asked whether they knew and met with that general secretary ― records show that he is XU Bin from the Sinopec Group who is the incumbent general secretary of the discipline inspection commission; and he has exerted pressure on the ICAC ― the Deputy Commissioner of the ICAC did not LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11127 make a direct response. He simply advised that he was not in the position to comment on whom they have met, stressing that the ICAC would act in accordance with the law and its independent investigations would not be affected by pressure.
After learning about so many cases ― I have simply given a brief summary of the cases ― Members will now find that various signs have already reflected the existence of the dysfunction of the ICAC. It seems that even the Government intends to degrade the ICAC's image and depicts it as a "toothless tiger". When the ICAC is of help, the Government appoints it as the "political hatchet man". This is also why I think the ICAC should not be granted the funding as requested.
The Public Accounts Committee of the Legislative Council has recently held public hearings on the operation of the Mega Events Fund as reported in the report of the Director of Audit. One of the highlights of the hearings is that according to the Audit Report, the ICAC had already pointed out in 2010 that the Mega Events Fund was no longer necessary in view of the enhanced economy of Hong Kong and it was recommended that the unused funding be returned to the Government. However, the Government still sought approval from the Finance Committee for further injection into the Mega Events Fund without mentioning a word about the ICAC's advice (The buzzer sounded) …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I have just given notice to propose Amendment No 371 to deduct $190.8 million, which is equivalent to the estimated expenditure for public relations and public information of the Information Services Department (ISD). Deputy Chairman, this amendment proposes a significant reduction, but it is fully justified. Basically, this amendment does not target at the performance of the journalists or civil servants, but senior government officials in general.
Deputy Chairman, Amendment No 371 was proposed by me and I have actually proposed a number of amendments to reduce the emoluments of ISD staff. Deputy Chairman, noting from the programmes of the ISD, it is responsible for the following duties: arranging media facilities such as press 11128 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 conferences, briefings, interviews, media visits and public functions; issuing press releases; arranging for officials to participate in radio phone-in and television public affairs programmes; broadcasting press conferences and briefings on the government homepage and providing an archive for public information; and dealing with enquiries from the media and the public.
While the estimated expenditure in this regard was $154 million in 2009, it rose to $190 million in 2013, representing an increase of 23%. While the number of staff was 243 in 2009, it has risen to 247 this year. Deputy Chairman, I propose to reduce the relevant expenditure mainly because the nature of work of the ISD has changed, and consideration has also been made to its performance, which is probably outstanding. I have no intention to play down on the professionalism of ISD officials as they are completely different from the Information Coordinator of the Chief Executive's Office (CEO). The Information Coordinator of CEO should be dismissed simply because his performance is not up to standard. His appointment to the post is only a political reward.
The ISD should be abolished because its establishment or existence has made officials of various government departments lazy, or prompted them to have little or even no contact with the reporters. Let me provide some data to enhance Members' understanding. Firstly, the number of press release has significantly increased, which means that the number of press releases issued by the ISD has surged. In the past, the media tended to cover all exchanges between government officials and reporters, but nowadays the reliance on press releases has grown. Can Members guess the number of press release issued in 2009? Let me tell you: 40 000 press releases were issued in 2009. Let me ask Members again. How many press releases have been issued this year? Can Members guess? This is a question-and-answer game with presents. Deputy Chairman, 220 000 press releases have been issued so far. The number of press releases has risen from 90 000 in 2009 … No, the number has increased from 40 000 to 220 000 this year, which is more than five times. Although Information Officers were appointed to issue press releases, why would there be an increase of more than five times within only five years? What has happened?
If Members also look at other data, they will understand why the ISD should be abolished. The numbers of press conferences and briefings have increased over the past three years. While it was 1 073 in 2011, it rose to 1 699 in 2013, and the actual number of press conferences held in 2013 is higher than LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11129 expected. Obviously, this is attributable to the unforeseen incidents, such as the involvement of Paul CHAN in "sub-divided units" and the hoarding of land; the resignation of Executive Council Members and the issuance of television licence. As a result, various government departments, Directors of Bureaux and Secretaries of Departments had to whirl around attending several press conferences in a single day, fighting to disseminate the relevant information. That is why the number of press conferences and briefings surged last year.
Another major reason for the issuance of press releases is a drastic drop in the number of government officials attending media interviews. Deputy Chairman, this is a very important number. Very strangely, while other numbers are rising sharply, contacts between government officials and the media or reporters have dropped significantly. Shielded by the Information Officers, government officials can thus excuse themselves. Although an official might have spoken for just a couple of minutes, the effect could be much greater than an Information Officer working for one whole day. Reporters will certainly ask questions in an orderly manner. This indicates that government officials are too cowardly to meet the press because the matters to be dealt with are very often scandals.
However, this has significantly pushed up public expenditure. Let me provide Members with some data which should not be concealed anymore. Government officials attended 4 300 media interviews in 2012, but the number has dropped to 3 700 this year. And yet, the number should be increasing given that the number of press releases issued, inter alia, has increased by four to five times. Why did the number of interviews attended by government officials drop?
Also, the number of interviews arranged for media is dropping. If the media had not brought to light the scandals relating to the MTRCL and the overspending of the Express Rail Link, no arrangement would have been made for the media to visit the construction sites. As Members can see, be it the Government or an organization, there is a tendency to conceal information from the public. An example is the ancient wells unearthed during the construction of the Shatin to Central Link, which are relics of the Song dynasty. Many things have been concealed. The number of visit was 263 in 2012, but it dropped to 150 this year. The Government is obliged to take the initiative to do something. The media certainly welcome visits as requests for visit might not be attended to in some cases. I sometimes bring along the media to certain visits in my 11130 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 capacity as a Legislative Council Member. The overall operation of the Government and communication with the media has apparently become an opportunity for government officials to disseminate information favourable to them. When the media pursued or requested arrangements for visits, government officials tend to derelict their duty. As a result, the number of visits has drastically reduced and led to fewer interactions, which is unhealthy. In the modern world, especially places with abundant information, interaction is very important and would enable the media to collect information about the people concerned. Also, pursuit by reporters can enhance the accuracy of information. There is no way that arbitrary messages can get through in press releases as in the case of the art of double-talk demonstrated by "689".
This is absolutely unsatisfactory, especially for governance, and it has disastrous effect on the quality of administration. Let us look at the table just finished by the netizens today. It was originally a coloured table about the public opinion survey conducted by the University of Hong Kong on the support rate of government officials … This political accountability team of LEUNG Chun-ying has now become a "negative asset team". Secretary, you are here now. You are great as your support rate has yet to drop to below zero. Perhaps this is an advantage of civil servants, whose work is not so political. For Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux whose work involves people's livelihood and political issues, their support rates have dropped to below zero. Even the Secretary nicknamed "Exploiter", that is, Secretary for Transport and Housing Prof Anthony CHEUNG, has had his support rate dropped to negative five. Secretary Paul CHAN is definitely worse. Before he became a Secretary, I have warned him not to take up the job as his fate would be very miserable. The support rate of Secretary Paul CHAN is negative 29 and Secretary Eddie NG is negative 27. Today, he has surprised us by attending an activity organized by an association whose name begins with the word "Voices", and requesting all schools to prohibit their students from participating in the Occupy Central movement, which he claimed is an offence. Buddy, Secretary for Home Affair TSANG Tak-sing had also participated in a riot when he was studying at St Paul's College and was sentenced to two year's imprisonment for distributing leaflets. The fact that a person who had broken the law when he was a student can still be appointed as Director of Bureau shows that the Government does not care about one's criminal record. This is tantamount to slapping on the face of TSANG Tak-sing, thus the Secretary for Education should not hide away but to stand out and explain to the media. Given that he has the courage to join the activity of such an organization and issue a statement, he LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11131 should stand out to explain to the reporters. Instead of giving an explanation, he has chosen to be a coward and passed the ball to the Information Officers of the ISD. What other abilities do government officials have? People engaging in public administration have to face the public and the media, and are subject to the supervision of the fourth estate, that is, the media. Nonetheless, questions raised in this Chamber often fail to achieve this purpose. Deputy Chairman, noting that only a few Members remain in the Chamber, I have no interest to continue to speak. Please do a headcount.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(When the summoning bell was ringing, THE CHAIRMAN resumed the Chair)
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Albert CHAN, please continue to speak.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I hope more Members will understand that the existence of the ISD and an increase in its expenditure will prompt government officials, especially Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux, to stop meeting the media or meet less frequently. This will definitely lead to deteriorating governance. Such evasive and cowardice attitude would only undermine their ability to handle adverse situations. As I have always said, public administration is a profound art which is not taught in any book and cannot be learnt from any master, although Chinese people are always eager to pursue "consummate stroke". It can only be acquired through active participation in public affairs or sometimes trial and error. With accumulation of experiences, one will be fit for the post. This is why the popularity ratings of Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux who used to be Administrative Officers are different from those who joined the Civil Service halfway. Regardless of whether the latter are lawyers, accountants or professors, the fact that they have only engaged in empty talks and are absent of 11132 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 prolonged experience in public administration (such as the Chief Executive "689") would only bring disastrous outcomes and result in the plunging of their popularity ratings. Popularity rating, after all, is a matter of personal reputation, thus a plunging rating is no big deal. Administration blunders, however, will bring sufferings to Hong Kong people. Inability to face or handle adversities or crises will certainly lead to deteriorating governance.
Chairman, one of the problems with the ISD is its discrimination against network broadcasting stations. I must point out that the most important reason for deducting the expenditure, which is over $100 million, is, as I have said, to remove dependence. This will not open any opportunity for government officials to chicken out in the face of the media. This is the underlying reason for deducting the expenditure of ISD.
I would also like to take this opportunity to criticize the ISD as many reporters of network broadcasting stations are denied access or not allowed to attend or take part in certain press conferences. Worse still, the ISD has refused to issue press cards to them. Such an approach has failed to keep abreast of the times because I am pretty sure that the news reports produced by certain network broadcasting stations have higher viewership than those produced by the ATV. And, when compared with those licensed TV broadcasters, their influence is absolutely … the hit rate of some network broadcasting stations is higher than the rating or viewership of radio stations or TV broadcasters.
Therefore, it is not only against the current trend to discriminate against the network broadcasting stations, but has gone against common sense. The purpose of reporting is to help disseminate news. Through reporting, reporters are able to disseminate information and journalistic autonomy has given them the right to decide how the information would be reported. As the majority of network broadcasting stations are not government organizations, many organizations or news media have become government organizations (the buzzer sounded) … I will provide additional information later on. Thank you, Chairman.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, I will continue to speak on the proposal to deduct the provisions for the emoluments of the Chief Secretary Carrie LAM. As you were not in the Chamber just now, you did not hear my speech. Actually, I have covered a lot of grounds in my analysis. Of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11133 course, when it comes to the performance of Chief Secretary Carrie LAM, her misdemeanours are, as the Chinese saying goes, "too numerous to inscribe on all bamboo strips". First of all, her statements are always contradictory. Instead of digging up what she had said in the past, I will concentrate on the incidents after she became the Chief Secretary. Chairman, what did she do on 3 July 2012, that is, three days after she assumed office? She made the following statements when she visited the districts with LEUNG Chun-ying (and I quote to this effect), "In the past, the Government has allocated a lot of resources on the 10 major infrastructure projects. In future, the Government will focus more on people's livelihood. In other words, we should embark on 10 major livelihood projects … Moreover, efforts should be made on promoting local economy." (unquote) The above statements were quoted from a report made by a Mainland media agency, the China Review News. I have not accused her wrongly as the report does not come from the so-called opposition media such as Apple Daily.
Honestly, a lady can become more beautiful by putting on make-up. But if she has less than remarkable features, it could have the opposite effect and make her look unsightly, or it is like "drawing the eyebrows too thick by rashly shaping them" as depicted by the famous Chinese poet, DU Fu. Chairman, let us just concentrate on these three statements. What are the whereabouts of the "10 major livelihood projects"? We are all aware of the "10 core projects". At present, the Express Rail Link project as well as the Liantang Boundary Control Point project are running over budget. As the Chief Secretary, she has talked nonsense in order to win some short-lived applause. Let me repeat those statements again: "In the past, the Government has allocated a lot of resources on the 10 major infrastructure projects. In future, the Government will focus more on people's livelihood. In other words, we should embark on 10 major livelihood projects." But at most, LEUNG Chun-ying has only accomplished two meritorious deeds, namely, the Old Age Living Allowance and the Low-income Working Family Allowance. Actually, the expenditure incurred by these two measures is just limited, right? The "10 livelihood projects" claimed by LEUNG Chun-ying have now become the "10 'bogus' livelihood projects". As the Chief Secretary, she has talked nonsense to people.
In fact, in the course of examining the funding provisions by the Council, I discovered that this year, the 10 major infrastructure projects alone, which were proposed by Chief Secretary Carrie LAM previously and opposed by us, have already run over budget by tens of billion dollars. I have not accused her 11134 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 wrongly, right? I recall a Chinese doggerel as follows, "First year, a novice; second year, a veteran; third year, a lawless." It would be most appropriate to describe the way LEUNG Chun-ying has forgotten his origins over the years. In the first year after his election, he was acting cautiously as he was still a novice. In the second year, he started to "show off" and often went to Beijing to conduct the so-called "compensated dating" or "homeland relationship" …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, you have strayed away from the subject.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): … The Chief Secretary's role is like that of a prime minister. In imperial China, the prime minister was in charge of the government's administration, and one of his major duties was to check against the emperor. In other words, if her superior has erred, she should tell him directly. "Chief Executive LEUNG Chun-ying, as we need to embark on the 10 livelihood projects, please ensure that the necessary funding is available." As we are having this discussion today, John TSANG still intends to go full steam ahead with the 10 major infrastructure projects. What is more, he wants to set up a savings fund dedicated to finance the costs of infrastructure projects for the next 15 years. Would you say that the Chief Secretary is capable of leading the various bureaux and departments in the Government? I have not accused her wrongly. But instead of mending her ways, Carrie LAM recently criticized a particular Member, that is, me, for taking LEUNG Chun-ying to task for his undertakings. In his election manifesto, LEUNG Chun-ying undertook to set up an old age pension fund at the right time. By my calculation, he has assumed office for 27 months. As his term lasts for 60 months in total, it means that his term is almost half way through. Hence, I must ask him what he means by "the right time". When is the right time to do so? The truth is clear for all to see. This is the third budget of the current-term Government. Regarding this initiative pledged by the Chief Secretary and the Chief Executive which has yet to be fulfilled, why does a humble Member of the Legislative Council, LEUNG Kwok-hung, take it upon himself to remind the Chief Secretary that the most important qualities of a ruler are integrity and kindness? Last year, I already reminded her that it was the right time to set aside $50 billion to prepare for the setting up of an old age pension fund, or what we call a "universal retirement protection fund". That point is very clear, and I did not ask her to exhaust the fund immediately, so that universal retirement protection as LEUNG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11135
Chun-ying has pledged himself can be implemented before his term expires in 2017. Am I right, or is Carrie LAM right? Luckily, I have a good memory.
Hence, Chairman, just now, Mr Albert CHAN … I would like to discuss another amendment. I also support the proposal to deduct the estimated expenditure for the Information Services Department (ISD). In the first year after LEUNG Chun-ying came into office, a total of 40 000 press releases were released. Do Members know how many press releases were issued last year? Chairman, you may also be surprised to note that 220 000 press releases were issued. Has the size of Hong Kong increased by five times? Or has the number of incidents which happened in Hong Kong increased by five times? That is just a case of glossing over the Government's mistakes, right? If the same incident is repeated 10 times ― Chairman, I will talk about the ISD first ― the workload will increase by five times. Let me give an example. Why does the Government issue a large amount of "spam" press releases? Because by describing an apple in five different ways, the Government wants the apple to look perfect and impeccable so that nobody can find fault with it, say, by using expressions like "I believe in me", "I have never said so" and "I have done no such thing". That should be the work of the Ministry of Truth … The front-line troops are in critical situation while the backup troops only dance; we have no money to help the corrupted, yet the ISD just issues loads of press releases of this kind. Chairman, there is also a Public Information Division in the Legislative Council. Would you say that nothing ever happens in the Legislative Council? But even with Members filibustering or hurling objects at government officials, how many press releases have been issued by the Legislative Council? It would suffice for the President to speak in public about those incidents so that the media can record and relay the same accurately. As persons with commitment, we need not issue press releases for we can speak to the people face to face and eye to eye, and we have nothing to hide. But that is not the case for the Chief Secretary. Instead of speaking to the people face to face, she just relies on blog posts and press releases for news dissemination. Will there still be news in Hong Kong? No, we will only have "past" news because everything is prepared in advance. This is similar to the practice of the Ministry of Truth. If you have read George ORWELL's novel, you would know that the truth are just lies, that is, only the truth or government-approved versions of events would be disseminated to the people. Any person with some knowledge of modern history would know about one such "Ministry" inside the Communist Party of China, that is, the famous Central Propaganda Department. Buddy, this Government does not administer on the basis of doing practical work. Honestly, had Carrie LAM heard my speech today, she would have said, "We have indeed 11136 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 carried out the 10 major livelihood projects." Then she would identify 10 measures she undertook previously and call them the "10 major livelihood projects". She would then say, "I have never mentioned specifically what the 10 major livelihood projects are. Now I proclaim that the 10 implemented measures as stated above are the 10 major livelihood projects." In that case, there would be two items of news.
Chairman, I will say a few words about the speech made by Mr Albert CHAN just now. Actually, I am moved to give a response. Being a "good fighter", Carrie LAM dislikes criticisms, and she would always retort back. For a ruler, silence is the golden rule. A ruler must bear responsibility as well as blame, instead of retorting against people with dissenting views. Today, let me give Carrie LAM a lesson on how to be a government official. So long as she can do the things I read out in the following passage, I will not deduct her emolument. "Those who were known as outstanding men in ancient times always had a kind of self-control that was unsurpassed in others. When something happened that could not be borne by human sentiment and when an ordinary man, faced with an insult, unsheathed his sword and girded himself for a fight, this was not enough to indicate bravery." ― Mind you, that is just what an ordinary man would do ― "Men of great valour were not overcome with surprise even when suddenly confronted, nor angered when provoked without justification. The reason was that the cause which they upheld ("挾 持" ― the Chinese term "挾 持" can mean "to uphold" or "to hijack"; unlike what other people say about me "hijacking the Council", "挾 持" is a term with good connotation) was lofty and the goal they sought far-reaching."4 That is how a man should conduct himself, regardless of whether he is an official or not. A person with lofty goals would never jump to retort simply because of criticisms made by a few Members in the Opposition. As the Chinese saying goes, the effect of which is that, "when one dog barks at the sun, a hundred others join in to bark at the noise." Once she says something in response, almost 100 others will echo her view in support. A ruler should be prudent with words and generous with practical deeds. When she said we were putting on a show …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, it seems that you have mixed up the two idioms.
4
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): What did you say?
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The two idioms should respectively be, "In Sichuan dogs bark at the sun" and "When one dog barks at the shadow, a hundred others join in to bark at the noise".
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Yes, you are right but I am coining a new idiom.(Laughter) The two idioms have the same origin. In Sichuan, dogs bark at the sun. Afterwards, when one dog barks at the shadow, a hundred others join in to bark at the noise. The meaning is the same. As the sun is a rare sight in Sichuan, dogs there would bark once they see it. Chairman, it shows that you have been listening to my speeches carefully, but I am sure that Carrie LAM has not. The words of wisdom I quoted just now came from the article On the Marquis of LIU written by the famous literati and scholar, SU Shi, and they are still valid for the officials today. Why does she spend time on a war of words with me? She should just do her job, or if she has done nothing, she could just tell Hong Kong people why she has not done her job. That is alright. But why did the Government issue 220 000 press releases to channel public opinions?
Chairman, one of the duties of Carrie LAM is poverty alleviation, but the Government's work on poverty alleviation is ineffective. As I pointed out just now, the target of her poverty alleviation work is wrong. According to the Chief Secretary, her priority is to resolve inter-generational poverty. Then what about the poverty of elders in their next life? No wonder she has paid no attention to the elderly these days for inter-generational poverty is unrelated to the elderly. For the elders, they either go to heaven or hell, or are reincarnated; and if they are reincarnated, the Government will provide them with assistance in their next life. We are now talking about welfare for the elderly. As mentioned by the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions, the matter has been discussed for over 30 years. All along, the Government has said nothing about inter-generational poverty. As the elders approach death day by day, they can do nothing to improve their livelihood. On the contrary, with parental care of upbringing, children can gradually gain more power to improve livelihood. But the same will not happen for the elders. Won't you say that the policy on poverty alleviation has erred in this regard? Our aim is to help the underprivileged and assist the disadvantaged as they would become increasingly … As an old Chinese saying goes, "Rather bully a white-bearded old folk than mess with an 11138 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 impoverished young bloke." In other words, people who are capable of bringing changes themselves should not be the priority target of poverty alleviation. But I am not undermining the importance of inter-generational poverty. The problem of inter-generational poverty is a certainty because even with upbringing and proper coaching, some people may still fail to improve their livelihood due to the lack of mobility in society. In that case, society is at fault. The Government has sinned on both counts. On the one hand, it has ignored those people who have made lifelong contribution to society, and on the other hand, it is telling the young children or the grand-children, "Your grandparents have done you wrong. Given the lack of funds, the Government can only take care of you." Either way, the Government is neither benevolent nor righteous. John TSANG has blamed the elderly of today for becoming a burden in the future as no funding could be made available for housing construction. Hence, there is no need to care for the elders. Likewise, Carrie LAM is trying to incite disharmony in society. Is Hong Kong really so strapped on cash? Given the Government's allocation of $750 billion on poverty alleviation, how come its work is only concentrated on one side while nothing has been done for the other?
Chairman, given that she has even got the target of poverty alleviation wrong, how can I agree with the provision for her emoluments? She has started off as the Director of Social Welfare, buddy. By appointing her as the Chairman of the Commission on Poverty, LEUNG Chun-ying has breached his duty again. Perhaps she saw herself as a beauty for she did not notice the freckles on her own face. For one, she supported cutting CSSA payments by 11.1%, and she was responsible for implementing the policy. It was only afterwards that she went to London to fill another post. She also supported the block grant policy. These two initiatives have made poverty alleviation practically impossible for social welfare organizations can no longer increase their expenditure according to actual needs. Moreover, with this "small vaults" system in place, social welfare organizations can "fatten the top and thin the bottom". How can she alleviate poverty? Through cutting CSSA payments by 11.1% or imposing the requirement that only persons who have resided in Hong Kong for seven years are eligible for CSSA (The buzzer sounded) … The Court has already ruled that this requirement is invalid. How can she alleviate poverty?
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please calm down. Please sit down. Does any other Member wish to speak?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11139
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Perhaps it is better to have a walk after meals. Chairman, I request a headcount.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I will continue to speak on the 13 amendments proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung to deduct the provisions under head 72 for the estimated expenditure of the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC).
Last time, I said that there were early signs showing that the ICAC had been malfunctioning. Seemingly, the Government also wants to marginalize the ICAC as a "toothless tiger". The recent examples can prove it. They have incited more and more public anger. Lately, public hearings have been conducted by the Public Accounts Committee of the Legislative Council (PAC) in relation to the criticisms set out in the Report of the Director of Audit (Audit Report) on the operation of the Mega Events Fund (MEF). One of the foci of public hearings is that as revealed by the Audit Report, in as early as 2010, the ICAC suggested that given the changed economic situation in Hong Kong, there was no need for the MEF to continue operation, and that the unused funds should be returned to the Government. But it turned out that in 2012, the Government … As I just said, although the suggestions of the ICAC were made in as early as 2010, the Government did not mention those suggestions at all when it sought funding approval from the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council for further injections into the MEF in 2012. The public have all the right to question whether the Government has deliberately withheld the information from the Finance Committee. At the PAC's public hearings, Permanent Secretary Andrew WONG surely denied it, saying that the relevant suggestions were just the views of individual members of the ICAC's Corruption Prevention Advisory Committee (CPAC), rather than the recommendations of the 11140 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
ICAC. It is really convenient and self-serving to say that the suggestions are "for reference only"! The Government had not heeded the advice, but had it done so … First, the Government has not made those suggestions; second, the Government has not heeded the advice ― had the Government heeded the advice, it would not have applied for further injections into the MEF two years later. According to the Government's explanation, the relevant suggestions were just views of individuals. Notwithstanding, it later said that the Government had already carried out the recommendations of the ICAC and returned the unused funds of the MEF to the Government.
At that time, Mr Alan LEONG ― who is not in the Chamber now ― retorted that it is common sense that there must be some underlying reasons for the ICAC to suggest returning the unused funds of the MEF to the Government. What was the logic behind? The logic was that when the problems had been detected, the ICAC was being polite and tried to give the Administration a way out by saying that with Hong Kong's economic situation improving, funds for the organization of mega events could be raised in the community without the need for public funding support. As we can all see clearly, the logic behind is that the MEF should cease to operate. At that time, Mr LEONG said that even primary students could understand the logic behind. But the Permanent Secretary argued that according to his judgment back then, such information was unimportant ― he was saying that as the advice of the CPAC was considered to be unimportant, it was not disclosed to the Finance Committee. On hearing the reply, Mr Alan LEONG said resignedly that as the Government had already admitted that it was a judgment made at that time, he would not ask further. While Members were interrogating the Government on that occasion, I am now discussing the work of the ICAC, and I want to deduct the provisions for its expenditure. It turned out that findings of the ICAC's investigation were meant for reference only. But given such important advice from the CPAC, why did the ICAC not follow it up by further investigation or verification? So, when the CPAC tendered its advice to the Government, the Government refused to take it on board, and the file was just closed. Was that what happened? Afterwards, the ICAC just let other public officers shirk the responsibility to individual members of the CPAC. In other words, the ICAC has detected the problems all along and requested that the MEF should cease operation, but the Government did not pay any attention at all. In that case, should the ICAC be more stringent in this regard? Public officers of other government departments did not pay attention to such advice for it was considered to be incorrect or unimportant. But from the perspective of the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11141
ICAC, were the necessary follow-up actions taken properly? There is concrete proof showing that the Government has treats the ICAC as a "toothless tiger". Even the Government treats the ICAC as a "toothless tiger". In fact, the Government also wants the ICAC to cease operation in order to avoid the trouble of further investigations into "covetous TSANG" and Timothy TONG.
The MEF case is just a small example we have come across when we learn more about the covert relationship between the ICAC and the Government. The report of recommendations submitted by the ICAC to the CPAC was prepared with public resources. But ultimately, it was just ignored. Of course, Members can further enquire into whether any investigation has been conducted afterwards. As I see it, even though the PAC cannot investigate the ICAC, it can investigate the Government.
Besides, the ICAC has been established for 40 years. Has it learnt its lessons from the recent scandals? Or will the ICAC's priceless halo, that is, its good reputation built up over the past four decades, be tarnished completely? Obviously, it is the latter.
I still have some pieces of evidence to support the 13 amendments proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung to deduct the provisions for the expenditure of the ICAC, but I need a moment to organize them. I will give a detailed explanation in the next session.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, concerning Amendment No 371 mentioned just now, I really hope that the Government, especially the team of accountable officials, will study it in detail, even if I fail to deduct the expenditure for the Information Services Department (ISD), which amounts to over $100 million, and the overall operation in future … The Chairman should provide training for the Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux to teach them how to face the media rather than hiding behind the Information Officers.
Chairman, next I would like to talk about Amendment No 372, which reads "Resolved that head 74 be reduced by $67,400,000 in respect of subhead 000". The amount roughly equals to the estimated expenditure of the ISD on its publications for a whole year. Chairman, I have two reasons. One relates to environmental protection and the other relates to cost-effectiveness. If Members 11142 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 have read the data, they would find that the Government's expenditure on its publications and the volume of the printed materials have not decreased substantially over the years. It is inconsistent with the trend of development in today's society where an increasing number of publications are published in electronic versions and the number of people reading printed publications is dwindling.
Let me quote some figures. In 2006-2007, the ISD's actual expenditure on printed materials was $58.4 million and it has increased to $67.4 million this year. The sales income from the publications, however, has dropped significantly, from $10 million in 2006 to $5 million this year. The number of staff has not decreased over the years. It still remains at 61. That may be due to the ossified and bureaucratic operation system. The department just follows the beaten path with no one pressuring it to cut down the number of staff. However, the Audit Commission (AC) has pointed out many such problems before. According to Report No 60 of the Director of Audit published in 2013 on the results of value for money audits, from 1995 to 2012, the sales volume of government publications decreased by 95% and the sales revenue decreased by 89%. Marvellous! The sales volume decreased over 90% and the sales revenue also decreased 90% to the amount I just quoted, $5 million.
The ISD cannot recover the cost through the sales of the publications. Everyone knows that many government departments have the basic policy of cost recovery. Even for the application of driving licence and the sale of postal materials, they are also required to recover the costs. The ISD, however, fails to go by the book and follow this principle. That is totally outrageous. A number of other departments, including the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau that I mentioned just now, have their publicity expenses substantially overrun, just like the ISD. These publicity machines are becoming increasingly brazen. They totally disregard the mechanism, policy and the internal guidelines among government departments. Perhaps they are important and powerful and can do whatever they like with the publicity machines in their hands as long as the Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux, and even "689", are satisfied.
The AC estimated that in 2011-2012, the under-recovery of relevant costs amounted to $4 million for the Gazette, and $2 million for other publications. Of course, these sums of money are not very much in the overall government expenditure but in terms of the department's attitude or work objectives, these are LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11143 serious blunders which are hardly acceptable. Therefore, to address this problem and do things by the book, the expenditure of ISD in this respect should be slashed.
Moreover, the AC also pointed out another problem with the ISD. One basic requirement of the Government's administration and management is to write off the stock that has been stored for a certain period but the ISD did not write off the slow-moving books and publications on a timely basis. The Government has to calculate the costs of many things, including the storage of goods and materials but the ISD has not applied to the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau to handle the costs of writing off and disposing of the obsolete stock and the storage costs. As at March 2012, the AC identified its obsolete stock to be worth $9.4 million. Mr WONG Kwok-hing, how many cans of fried dace with black beans and luncheon meat can be bought with $9.4 million? From this we can see how much damage such waste and cover up has done to the public money.
Therefore, we see that the ISD has not improved its operation in this respect and continues to print various kinds of publications for years. In 2011-2012, 84 titles of government publications at a printing cost of $11 million were still distributed, although 82 of them were available online. Take the Gazette, one of the biggest volume of publications printed by the ISD, for example. A total of 18 300 copies of the Gazette at a printing cost of $5.8 million were distributed, despite the launch of the e-Gazette in December 2000. With the e-versions of publications more and more readily available, the Government can disseminate information through the electronic media without paper. As pointed out just now, one of my reasons is the environment. How many trees have been destroyed to print these millions of publications? The authorities should ask an environmental protection group to assess it and give the ISD a "black piglet" stamp for destroying forests.
To implement a policy to force it to do something, the best way is to cut its expenditure. With no money, it will stop printing. It feels just great to reduce head 74 by this amount of $67.4 million in one go. Chairman, I just do not see any special need for the expenditure in this regard and why it is irreplaceable.
Moreover, I propose to deduct $54.1 million from head 74, that is, Amendment No 373, which roughly equals the ISD's expenditure on publicity work for the whole year. As a matter of fact, the publicity work involves a huge sum of money, which requires an additional $54.1 million. Chairman, I wonder how many cans of fried dace with black beans and luncheon meat this amount can 11144 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 buy. Compared with last year, there is an increase of $3 million this year. Although the increase in number is more moderate as compared with other items, it still gives people the impression of a waste of public money.
The AC has made some comments on how the publicity work of ISD wastes public money. First, the repeated placing of government notices with the same contents in the same newspapers is obviously a waste. In 2012, the expenditure on the placement of government notices amounted to $42 million. The AC opines that the Government can upload recruitment advertisements onto its website rather than placing them in newspapers as many people will read the information directly from the Internet or government websites and they have no need to read the newspaper advertisements. Nowadays, electronic messages are disseminated faster and more effectively than newspapers. Hence the expenditure in this respect is not required.
The second comment of AC is that the ISD has not conducted any survey on the effectiveness of the Government's publicity campaigns since 2002. Most things simply followed suit. The ISD spent much money on publicity campaigns, but were they cost-effective? Private organizations pay close attention to it. Commercial organizations will certainly assess the effect of the placement of what advertisements in what newspapers, the public's response to the advertisements, and whether people would buy the product or use the service after seeing the advertisements concerned. I believe that not only private organizations but also the Chairman is also very familiar with the example of the elections. Candidates and their election campaign team will certainly assess what publicity strategy to use, where to put the resources, whether to use paper, posters or banners, and how to use the publicity funds, and so on. However, the AC said that the ISD had never conducted any survey on the effectiveness of the publicity campaigns for a whole decade since 2002. This is just like waiting for the handouts. When it gets the money, it just spends it without caring whether the money is properly spent, the cost-effectiveness of the publicity campaigns and whether they can achieve the efficacy expected. All in all, it has never conducted any survey.
Therefore, the current system may have turned into a routine, and especially after "Covetous TSANG" and "689" assumed office, the accountability of these departments continue to dwindle. Buddy, these Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux are not held accountable for their actions. For example, Anthony CHEUNG can repeatedly blunder and "Sub-divided Units Paul" was not held accountable for his mistakes and they still remain in office. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11145
As such, will other civil servants be willing to accept responsibility and be evaluated in the value for money audits? In particular, some Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux are reaping gains and they can reap tens of millions of dollars in land sales. This is outside the topic. I should stop talking about it lest the Chairman will say that I digress.
Back to the assessment, it shows the lack of professionalism on the part of the ISD. The ISD should make good use of the media and assess the effectiveness of everything. This kind of lax and passive attitude is prevalent in the Government. Of course, many would say that ossified bureaucracy of the Government often induces laziness in people but the performance of the ISD is just disappointing. The head of these departments should actively demonstrate their professionalism rather than waiting till they are cornered before doing something. Therefore, I move this amendment to cut the relevant expenditure.
Moreover, Amendment No 375 is to deduct $43.2 million from head 74. The amount approximately equals to the estimated expenditure for the ISD on enhancing the public's civic responsibility for the whole year. However, for whatever education and publicity campaigns launched, they would not be as powerful as the remarks that we have to "tolerate" made by "Secretary Name Card", right? To foster the sense of civic responsibility among the public, we have to help them obey the law and understand their social responsibility. If we tolerate even the behaviour of defecating and urinating on the street, what civic responsibility can we talk about? The civic responsibility is to correct people when they are wrong, tell them not to defecate and urinate on the street. To fulfil one's civic responsibility, one should point out what others have done wrong, just like the campaign against the "litter bugs" years ago. The Secretary now tells us to tolerate and turn a blind eye to people defecating and urinating on the street. Hong Kong can easily become a "capital of feces and urine", right? The Directors of Bureaux are being illogical and irrational. Chairman, with a Secretary having such performance, what kinds of public education and publicity campaigns do we need?
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, you have digressed.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I have not digressed. This item is about the duty of the ISD to enhance civic responsibility among the 11146 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 public. The ISD should denounce the wrong-doings of "Secretary Name Card" immediately by pointing out that it is dereliction of duty of the Secretary to make such statements and hold such an attitude, and he has not fulfilled his civic responsibility. Making such an immediate criticism is more effective than spending $43 million on publicity. Am I right?
Therefore, the Government spends large amounts of money on publicity but the words and deeds of some senior officials such as "Secretary Name Card" just go against the norm (The buzzer sounded) …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, your speaking time is up. Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I request for a headcount.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, I mentioned in the last debate session that a person in a position similar to a Prime Minister must have firm belief in order to carry out his governance philosophy.
When the Chief Secretary for Administration, Mrs Carrie LAM, accepted her appointment by the Chief Executive, LEUNG Chun-ying, she should have her own political beliefs or she should be deeply impressed by the Chief Executive's governance philosophy. So, when we comment whether she is competent, we should focus mainly on whether her ideas are correct, and if they are, whether she has carried them out.
As I mentioned earlier, Chief Secretary Carrie LAM, said on 13 July 2012 during a visit that there would be 10 major livelihood projects. Now that almost LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11147 two years have passed, where are these 10 livelihood projects? Have the 10 major livelihood projects that she mentioned ever appeared? This is the first point. Second, if they have not, is she going to announce that now? If they have, are there any results? We should examine this issue.
Basing on the information I have collected, there is no follow-up on the 10 major livelihood projects, and there is no such thing. This is certainly because there have been too many twists and turns after the formation of the current-term SAR Government. However, the examples I have just cited show that while Chief Secretary Carrie LAM, previously commented that too much time, effort and money were spent on the implementation of the 10 major infrastructure projects, the Government needs to implement the 10 major livelihood projects. In fact, the Government has continued to implement the major infrastructure projects after she made such comments and overspending has become increasingly serious. On this point, I think Chief Secretary Carrie LAM should do us justice as she cannot effectively prevent overspending on 10 major construction projects. This is the first point. Second, she has not stopped the appearance of infrastructure projects like the 10 major infrastructure projects. Hence her administration is naturally weak. There is basically the same problem in respect of poverty alleviation because her ideas are very confusing.
To make a long story short, I was just about to talk about the damages of lump sum grants a while ago. She implemented this project when she was the Director of Social Welfare in 2000 ― she was not the Director of Social Welfare but she was Deputy Secretary for the Treasury ― regardless of her official position, she thought highly of lump sum grants. I do not understand why Mr CHEUNG Kwok-che is not speaking. I have said in this Council that it is necessary for lump sum grants to be appropriately changed. We must consider the issues of "fattening the top and thinning the bottom", "small vaults" and manpower wastage in the industry. As better remunerations cannot be given, better staff cannot be employed. Most of the expenses of the social welfare sector are human resource expenses …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, you should know that this Council has repeatedly debated this issue and you should not discuss this in detail again in this joint debate.
11148 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I understand. Why has Carrie LAM said that the poverty situation should be improved but it has come to such a poor condition? Since the situation has not been improved after the adoption of the measures she advocated, there is a bottleneck in poverty alleviation. It is even more outrageous that she proposed an 11.1% reduction in CSSA payments. I will not discuss that as it was a thing of the past. But the problem is that the requirement of seven-year residence in Hong Kong for the CSSA Scheme that she proposed has unfortunately been turned down by the Court recently. Her idea intends to reduce welfare expenditures. What are the 10 major livelihood projects she mentioned? I have finally found the relevant information. Chairman, it turns out to be something else. I am too stupid.
First, the Kowloon East project is a mess under her administration. When Chief Secretary Carrie LAM served as the Secretary for Development, she introduced the Kowloon East project, and she still worked on the project after she left the post. Chairman, to make a long story short, she said that more than $10 billion would be used to build an elevated monorail track, so that the cruise terminal would benefit various areas in Kowloon East. The merchants there can do business and Kowloon East would be revitalized. Nevertheless, this is not going to happen. I would like to ask if we should hold her accountable to this. Yet, this subject would be dropped. What is poverty alleviation about? Carrie LAM thought that she could alleviate poverty through revitalizing the communities. Nonetheless, she fails to observe that the drip effect is not significant in this process. Even if the Government provides a lot of money and policies, the money spent will not produce the drip effect and the lower level will not be benefited. Thus, this is a fundamental mistake.
I have just accused her of so many things in this connection, but what is the basic problem? The problem is that she does not know the cause of poverty, which is excessively uneven distribution. Excessively uneven distribution must be reversed through government policies. I argued with her over one point: if the Government does not implement a universal retirement protection scheme, it cannot solve the poverty problem of the elderly. So long as it does not legislate on standard working hours ― it must not subsidize capitalists through a low-income subsidy system ― it cannot improve the living standards of workers through wage incomes. This is basically wrong because low-income subsidy has lots of loopholes. I have already stated that it is unnecessary to discuss that any more. After all, "you cannot expect the horse to run fast when you do not let it graze". There should be moderate regulation so that hungry people would LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11149 not starve to death. Yet, their living standards cannot be really improved. We wish to moderately alleviate the situation where the minimum wage is too low but we dare not legislate on standard working hours, which will allow workers who work overtime to be compensated with overtime pay.
So, after the first erroneous distribution, she carried out the second distribution, which does not help improve the situation. It is meaningless to give one's children some money; that is why I … I might have been too annoyed. When we are talking about solving the problem of inter-generational poverty, we are not just talking about whether one would have money to buy a toy or a hamburger. Although this is also a problem, we want food for the soul, which can only be given by the parents. Putting it simply, a worker who has worked 10 hours can earn $300; after a wage and working hour reform, he can earn $400 after he has worked 10 hours. Then, parents can freely choose between shorter working hours and earning more money …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, your remarks on the poverty alleviation policies have gone far beyond the scope of the relevant issue.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Alright, I will not talk about poverty alleviation; it is also a waste of time to talk about this person. She is wrong and she has made insincere comments.
She is also responsible for the population policy but she has turned it into a cattle policy. What are the reasons? It is because she really regarded the population as cattle. As John TSANG has said, the Government focuses on an ageing population. An ageing population lacks productivity and becomes a burden. If we want to upgrade our productivity, we will have to introduce a new population.
How does a new population come by? First, over 100 people come from the Mainland to Hong Kong each day. I have made this point many times and I am not going to repeat myself. The Government put many restrictions on them after their entry to Hong Kong. Actually, the Government should enable them to integrate better into the community or become investments on upgrading productivity and turn them into benefits. However, the Government has not done so or included this as a part of the population policy. If we wish to have 11150 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 this population with the ability to upgrade our productivity, as well as a population policy that will enhance the competitiveness of our community as a whole, they must become benefits but not …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I would like to remind you again that, if the amendment is related to reducing the salary of a certain official, you should not discuss in detail the policies that the official is responsible for.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Nevertheless, the population policy is wrong. If Carrie LAM is going to receive salaries, she should do this well because she should not only formulate policies but also implement policies. She is directly responsible for this task, and she should not formulate policies and ask others to implement them. Yet, she is now providing one-stop services for she is the one who proposes, implements and gives account of the policies.
Chairman, it is certainly right for you to say that I cannot discuss her policies. But she is entrusted with the important task by the Chief Executive and she has to provide one-stop services. Under her leadership, all Policy Bureaux and government departments relating to the population policy are to provide services to her. What would happen if she as the commander-in-chief is knocked off her horse … if she is knocked off her horse in a battle … ?
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I have reminded you again that, when you discuss the performance of an official, you should not discuss in detail the policies that he or she is responsible for.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I understand. All in all, Carrie LAM fails to achieve results in dealing with the formulation and implementation of the population policy. In fact, she caused a greater controversy because she regarded the population as cattle, which is just a kind of productivity.
What did she say? She copied what Mr Michael TIEN said, and she said that due to understaffing, she had to consider labour importation if there was not enough new arrivals. This approach will cause uproar from the lower class in Hong Kong. Chairman, all changes in productivity would enhance our overall LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11151 competitiveness, if local workers would become skilled productivity or technical productivity through training. But if borrowed …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I have to keep reminding you that there are controversies in the community and this Council over the policy issues you raised, and you should not discuss at great length your opposition to these policies, which have made you ask for the reduction of the salaries of the official concerned. If you keep saying that, I have to stop your speaking.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I understand.
As I cannot ask her to be accountable, I will talk about politics. Chairman, is politics about policies or implementation? Please tell me about that first so I need not go around in circles. To what extent should the political reform by Carrie LAM be discussed? Should I discuss what she has done or spoken, or the policies she has formulated?
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I have already said that, if you are asking for the reduction of the salaries of an official, you can certainly comment on the performance of the official in carrying out his or her duties but you should not be discuss in detail the policies that the official is responsible for.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, I must say you are wrong. You can definitely say so if I am talking about the Secretary. However, I am talking about the Chief Secretary who is holding a lofty position, second only to one person. The Chief Executive has specifically designated her to perform these three tasks. If you say that the policies have nothing to do with her, who is the one to formulate policies? Is it LEUNG Chun-ying? What is her work? This is judging people from old impressions and, to be honest, this is a high-handed approach. Nonetheless, if I refute you, I cannot speak any more.
This is really very simple, if a policy is ineffective, should she who formulated the policy be accountable? Premier ZHOU Enlai did not have to be accountable because he was the Premier; MAO Zedong should be accountable …
11152 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, you have continued to digress from the topic.
MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): This is simple enough; I will now talk about Carrie LAM again. You can always give a ruling against me. It does not matter, and I will make changes after you have given a ruling.
First, in respect of constitutional reform, Carrie LAM has basically made a very serious mistake. She has no integrity in implementing policies, which is the first point. At the beginning of the constitutional reform consultation, it is specified that there are no boundaries. The Government will just listen to and collect opinions, and the opinions will be classified afterwards. This is still ringing in our ears. That day, the so-called pro-establishment camp or pro-Beijing camp asked the Chief Secretary what she was talking about and whether she would listen to all opinions. Sure enough (the buzzer sounded) … Sure enough, I can only continue to speak next time.
Sure enough, I have to ask the Chairman to summon more Members back there. It is already late at night and we feel very lonely.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, before I continue to speak on "Head 72 ― Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC)", I will first spend some time to respond to the speech made by Mr Albert CHAN just now. He talked about Amendment No 375, which proposes to "deduct an amount approximately equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure of the ISD on promoting a greater sense of civic responsibility", which involves $43.2 million.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11153
I understand why Mr Albert CHAN was so angry, Chairman, because "it is easier to destroy than to create". While seeking funding to promote civic education on the one hand, the Secretary has turned a deaf ear to some basic urban hygiene problems on the other. Instead of clarifying the matter, the Secretary talks about being accommodating. For example, after the Government launched Announcements of Public Interests on drunk driving with the funding, the Secretary staged a show of drunk driving himself. From this, we can see that the Government would secure funding for publicity to promote civic education and civic responsibility. But given that senior government officials who asked people to refrain from unauthorized building works would do so themselves, what is the point of spending this sum of money then?
This has something to do with a very special case that I am going to present about the reduction of the expenditure of the ICAC. The documentary which marks the 40th Anniversary of the ICAC, is jointly produced by the ICAC and the China Xinhua News Network Corporation owned by the Xinhua News Agency. However, they have made some very serious mistakes, which is not only a matter of inaccuracy, but also a possible crime. In one episode, it mentions the bribery case of former Chief Secretary for Administration Rafael HUI, which is sub judice, in a high-profile manner. This is one mistake. Secondly, it has wrongly reported that the police officer involved in artist Nicholas TSE's "scapegoat case" was found guilty. The legal circle considered that these two points might lead to charges of contempt of court and libel.
What is it all about the documentary which marks the 40th Anniversary of the ICAC? This documentary aims to court a bit of luck for the ICAC after the case of Timothy TONG has left a stain on the ICAC's gold-lacquered brand. Having a total of four episodes and each lasting half an hour, the documentary was published in two DVD sets. The third episode, titled "Fearless", mentioned the sub judice case of Rafael HUI which has just started in the High Court. There were also scenes of Rafael HUI appearing in Court. Simon PEH, making the narration, said that the ICAC has no fear of people of senior ranking or operating large-scale businesses. In other words, he is using the case to show that the ICAC is fearless. How can he pass a predetermined verdict before a proper hearing has been conducted? One may say that Rafael HUI is believed to have problems, but this is not in line with the principles of the laws of Hong Kong. How can the most senior official of the ICAC make such improper remarks!
11154 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014
Mr Eric CHEUNG, Principal Lecturer of the Faculty of Law of the University of Hong Kong, pointed out that this documentary would easily provide preconceived views which might prejudice the jury's judgment on Rafael HUI's case, thereby exposing the Commission to the charge of contempt of court. I wonder if Rafael HUI's lawyers would use this as a defence. It would be terrible if he "gets away with" the charges and is found not guilty. I should not use the phrase "gets away with" as no one knows if he is guilty or not. He should receive a fair trial and judgment. Another mistake found in the same episode is about the "scapegoat case" of Nicholas TSE, which says that police officer LAU Chi-wai was found guilty and sentenced to six months in prison. But the truth is that LAU Chi-wai's appeal succeeded and was found not guilty in the end. Legal experts also agreed that this part of the DVD may have slandered Mr LAU. What is wrong with the ICAC? What is it doing? How can it be so careless? Or, has the ICAC become LEUNG Chun-ying's political tool and secret weapon to eradicate his opponents? Hong Kong people are now pretty worried. What else can be done to save the ICAC?
After senior government officials of the old days, including former Chief Executive Donald TSANG, former Chief Secretary for Administration Rafael HUI and former Commissioner of the ICAC Timothy TONG, were accused of bribery in a row, people began to lose confidence in the integrity of government officials. If even the Commissioner ― I mean the incumbent Commissioner ― made mistakes and failed to follow the book, does the ICAC have the credibility to convince the public that it is determined to fight against corruption? Should the ICAC be penalized by, say, reducing its expenditure, as proposed in the 13 amendments under discussion? Let me repeat, some amendments involve drastic reduction, but some are pretty mild. The most drastic reduction is a deduction of an annual estimated expenditure of $700 million, whereas the mildest one suggests a deduction of only $68,900, that is, the annual estimated expenditure for the grant to the ICAC's Welfare Fund. If Members support Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung's Amendment No 376, which is somewhat a small punishment serving as a big warning, it can be seen as a serious lack of trust of this Council to the ICAC. Given that it is usually pretty difficult to propose a vote of no-confidence motion against the ICAC, the endorsement of Amendment No 367 may indirectly advise the ICAC to be more prudent as the Legislative Council has no confidence in it.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11155
Lastly, I want to add that the ICAC has been on very intimate terms with the Mainland Authorities in recent years. One may argue that this is Mainland-Hong Kong co-operation and integration, but we should beware of the noxious influence of the Mainland. The concept of integrity has been downplayed and distorted among the staff of the ICAC, and this should not be taken too lightly. The case of Timothy TONG ― not to mention how corrupt he is ― has actually distorted the highest standard of integrity, and highlighted the eagerness of local government officials to establish foothold in the Mainland officialdom. Even the Commissioner tried to fawn over Mainland officials by splitting the bills of luxurious official meals. How sarcastic this is! Although the ICAC has turned a new leaf with Simon PEH taking up the post as the Commissioner, we are still not totally convinced that such incident will not recur. As a matter of fact, the ICAC has gradually given up its previously stringent approaches. The abovementioned documentary has exposed the ICAC to charges of contempt of court. It has lost its compass as to what should be investigated or reported. Is the ICAC still the advantage of Hong Kong people? I therefore sincerely implore Members to support the 13 amendments from Amendment Nos 357 to 369, which are about the ICAC.
Next, I will use the remaining little time to speak on "Head 121 ― Independent Police Complaints Council" and "Head 122 ― Hong Kong Police Force". In fact, the Hong Kong Police Force (HKPF) under head 122 is the hardest hit. Why do I say so? As I have proposed 14 amendments, I will spend more time to give a detailed elaboration on these amendments. Perhaps I may have to speak three to four times on the HKPF, about which I have proposed 14 amendments. There are 28 amendments on head 122 alone. They are proposed by a total of six Members, and this is why I say the HKPF is the hardest hit. Apart from Mr Albert CHAN, Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung and me, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Mr Gary FAN and Mr James TO have also proposed amendments to "Head 122 ― Hong Kong Police Force" to deduct the estimated expenditure of HKPF under various subheads. Some Members have already spoken on the parts which they have expressed concern, so I am not going to repeat. For the rest of the time, I will speak on the issues which Members may not necessarily concern or mention. I just want to expose to Members the mistakes made by the HKPF to solicit their support for our amendments.
I am going to speak on Amendment No 573, which resolved that head 122 be reduced in respect of subhead 000. The amount to be reduced is equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure for emoluments of HKPF staff under "Personal Emoluments". This is one of the toughest proposals, and I will further elaborate 11156 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 on it later. If Members considered it too tough and we cannot survive without police officers, they may support other amendments.
In this part, I would like to discuss how unfair the police officers have treated certain disadvantaged groups in the community. They have even threatened or bullied the sex workers. Many sex worker concern groups revealed that sex workers are often threatened and bullied by police officers, but very few of them have reported to the police. What is the point of reporting to the police when they were bullied by police officers? Even if they report to the police, will their cases be fairly treated or simply brushed aside? A sex worker concern group, Action for REACH OUT, released the findings of a survey on the International Day to End Violence Against Sex Workers, which showed that of the 200 sex workers being interviewed, more than 10% has been threatened and blackmailed by police officers in the past six months. Some police officers have threatened sex workers in the course of Identity Card checks and statement taking. The concern group has received many complaints from sex workers, saying that they were impolitely or unreasonably treated by police officers in their encounters or when questioned upon arrest. "Unreasonably treated" is indeed a subtle complaint, and there is no need for us to state the obvious. This include the use of abusive language, physical scuffle, prohibition to use their mobile phones to call to seek help from their relatives or lawyers, prohibition to read the statements taken by police officers, and forced to sign on statements which they disagree.
Despite such encounters, sex workers rarely lodge complaints to the Complaints Against Police Office (CAPO). Apart from avoiding the strange look which the general public cast on them, the sex workers also fear that they may be discriminated against once their identity is revealed. Their unhappy encounters with police officers, coupled with the impolite and even unreasonable treatments which I have just mentioned, have all attributed to their lack of trust in the police. Thus, they dare not lodge complaints through the complaint mechanism. This is one of the reasons why the complaint mechanism has failed to perform its function.
Furthermore, many sex workers fear that their complaints may lead to retaliation by the police officers concerned. Since Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung does not fear about retaliation, he surely has the courage to lodge complaints. After all, the police will target at him regardless of whether complaints have been lodged. The cases of sex workers are different. While we are not supposed to worry about any disturbance from police officers during our work, sex workers LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 14 May 2014 11157 do have such worries. They fear retaliation by police officers as well as their targeted actions. Many sex workers, whom I call "sisters", have been arrested by police officers who did not give the reasons for the arrest. This again demonstrates the police's disrespect of the right of the people under arrest, and their failure to follow proper procedures. Worse still, police officers often do not inform sex workers of their due rights under arrest when they are being questioned. For example, there were cases where sex workers were not informed of their right to remain silent and to refuse to sign on the statements which they disagree. Only a few interviewees knew that they had the right to call their relatives or lawyers, or obtain a copy of the statement taken by police officers on their behalf. These are obvious examples showing that the rights of people being arrested or questioned are not respected by the police. According to the interviewees, the police did issue them the "Notice to Persons under Investigation by, or Detained in the Custody of, the Police" and asked them to sign on it, but is this the truth? The truth is that after the police questioned and threatened them, they had to sign on the notice without being given a chance to read through it. I am soliciting Members' support for this amendment on these grounds.
SUSPENSION OF MEETING
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now suspend the Council until 9 am tomorrow.
Suspended accordingly at nine minutes to Ten o'clock.