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Silent Souls Weeping with Jane Clayson Johnson

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Silent Souls Weeping with Jane Clayson Johnson Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast Episode 104: Silent Souls Weeping with Jane Clayson Johnson Released March 6, 2019 This is not a verbatim transcript. Some wording has been modified for clarity, and timestamps are approximate. Laura Harris Hales: 00:01 Jane Clayson Johnson is an award winning journalist widely known for her work at CBS News, ABC News, and the nationally syndicated NPR program “On Point.” Over more than two decades, she traveled the world covering stories from international news, two presidential campaigns, and interviewing the biggest news makers at the day. Jane is the bestselling author of I Am a Mother. Jane and her husband Mark live in Boston. They are the parents of five children and grandparents of three. Hi, Jane. Thanks for joining us today. Jane Clayson Johnson: Nice to be with you. Thank you for having me. Laura Harris Hales: Our discussion today is based on your new book Silent Souls Weeping: Depression; Sharing Stories and Finding Hope. What was your goal in writing Silent Souls Weeping? Jane Clayson Johnson: 00:54 I wrote this book after my own unexpected and quite harrowing experience with depression. After I had experienced that and come out of it, I started talking with other people about what had happened to me, and I started to realize how many people had experienced the same thing or something similar, and they had suffered in silence like I had. I just couldn’t get over how damaging that was for their families and for themselves. I knew how damaging and difficult it was for my own family and certainly for me. I wanted to do something about it, and I started not just talking with people. I asked to interview them. At the end of my interviews, I had interviewed more than 150 men, women, and teenagers about their experiences with depression. That’s what this book includes. What I wanted to do was start a conversation with members of the church who feel like they can’t openly discuss their experiences with mental illness and with depression because they’re embarrassed, they feel ashamed, they feel like because their faith is suffering, and they’re not feeling the spirit because they’re depressed. Jane Clayson Johnson: 02:20 All of these things came up in my interviews, so that’s what I was trying to do with this book. LDS Perspectives Podcast Episode 104: Silent Souls Weeping with Jane Clayson Johnson Laura Harris Hales: 02:27 A lot of people have written books on their own depression. Why was it important for you to share the stories of others? Jane Clayson Johnson: 02:35 Because I think they’re powerful. I shared my stories with other people to help them open up about their own experiences. My personal story in chapter one is very raw; it’s very authentic, and it was difficult. As I heard from other people, I felt it was important to describe a wide range of experiences. There are chapters in the book on postpartum depression, missionaries who come home early because of mental illness issues, and kids and teens who suffer. There’s an important chapter on toxic perfectionism and how that’s a contributor, especially in our culture. I also write about what leaders of our church can do on the local level to uncover this problem and treat it and help people to get hope. I should mention there’s also an important chapter on suicide that is a real epidemic. In each story, Laura, I heard pain and vulnerability and loneliness, but I also saw love and life and hope. Everyone can relate to something in these stories, and they can also see redemption at the end of it. Laura Harris Hales: 03:58 I liked it because it wasn’t just Jane’s story, a celebrity who fought depression. This is a problem that a lot of people suffer with. Let’s talk about it! And you were blunt in how you talked about it. In fact, in the first few pages, I found myself flinching because you were using words that we tiptoe around, right? For example, you start out by labeling depression as mental illness. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I might be depressed, but I’m not mentally ill. That’s the thing that crazy people do. Jane Clayson Johnson: 04:32 I can’t tell you how often I heard someone say to me, “I’ve never talked about this with anyone” or “My parents don’t even know this” or “I can’t believe I’m telling you this.” After I had done many interviews, people started reaching out to me who I didn’t even know who had hear I was working on this book and asked, “Could I talk to you? Can I tell you my story?” They were desperate to help other people and to use their experience for good. I think that’s a very powerful and courageous thing to do. Laura Harris Hales: 05:10 In labeling depression as a mental illness, you differentiate it from what you call “situational sadness.” How are they different? Jane Clayson Johnson: 05:19 Well, I say in the beginning of this book, I’m not a doctor, and I’m not a PhD. I have been a journalist for over 20 years. I told many stories and interviewed very interesting and influential people. This book is through the power of story explaining what depression is and what mental illnesses is. When I say I experienced situational sadness, I speak from my own experience, and I say that throughout my life I had dealt with difficult experiences, and I had been down, and I had had a good cry or two or three, and I was always able to get back up. But when I was in depression, I felt like I was in a sack, a burlap sack, and someone had tied the top of that sack, and I could not get out of it. I couldn’t understand why I was feeling so badly because I was blessed. https://wp.me/paeAPT-IEPage 2 of 15 Episode 104: Silent Souls Weeping with Jane Clayson Johnson Jane Clayson Johnson: 06:09 I had a wonderful family, and I had what I needed and wanted in my life. And yet, I couldn’t get out of bed, and I was barely functional and cried all the time. And I was angry. There were all the classic symptoms of depression. And I was confused because I wondered, “What is this and why is this happening to me?” I’m doing everything right in my life, right? I’m praying, and I’m reading my scriptures. I’m going to the temple, and I’m serving in my calling. And yet, I’m depressed. When I had was a little girl, I’d always been taught that if you’re doing what’s right, you’re following the commandments, you’re serving, you’re praying, and you’re doing all the right things, then you are happy. If you’re sad or not social or whatever else, then you must be doing something wrong, and you need to repent. Jane Clayson Johnson: 07:04 So for me, depression was very real, and it was a tunnel vision of sorts—a collapsing of possibility—and that’s very hard to get out of. In fact, it’s impossible to get out of without professional help. Laura Harris Hales: Why was it important to destigmatize the use of the term mental illness? Jane Clayson Johnson: Stigma and shame lead to isolation and silence. Stigma and shame lead to isolation and silence and that aggravates depression and most importantly cuts off important sources of support and treatment. That’s why talking about it is so important. I think mental health specialists and some organizations have made progress over the years trying to reduce the stigma attached to mental illness. But stigma is still the main reason that individuals and families do not reach out in times of crisis. And we have to change that. Laura Harris Hales: Can you tell us a little bit about how you went about conducting your research? Jane Clayson Johnson: 08:10 Yes. So it’s a journalist’s experience. I have spent my whole life as a journalist at CBS and ABC News, and now I am on a national public radio program produced out of Boston. People always ask me, “What were the favorite interviews that you did?” And I think they were expecting me to say a president or a Hollywood star, you know, somebody famous. “Was it Martha Stewart?” You know, my favorite interviews were always those of people who had done something extraordinary who are not in the public eye; people who were just normal folks who’d made good choices, who had used their talents and experiences, difficult as they may be, for good. So those are the people that I reached out to. As I was thinking about this book and the stories that are in it, I realized that that’s what I’ve dipped into—to tell the stories of people who don’t have a platform, people who don’t have the ability to share what they’ve been through. Jane Clayson Johnson: 09:11 And I’m honored that they would trust me enough to tell their stories. Laura Harris Hales: Depression as a discreet mental illness is difficult to describe. Why do you think that is? https://wp.me/paeAPT-IEPage 3 of 15 Episode 104: Silent Souls Weeping with Jane Clayson Johnson Jane Clayson Johnson: So why is it difficult to describe? Laura Harris Hales: Yes.
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