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Latter-Day Saint Women Podcast Transcript Jane Clayson Johnson | Depression: Connecting Through Stories

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Latter-Day Saint Women Podcast Transcript Jane Clayson Johnson | Depression: Connecting Through Stories June 21 Latter-day Saint Women Podcast Transcript Jane Clayson Johnson | Depression: Connecting Through Stories KARLIE. Hello, and welcome to the Latter-day Saint Women podcast, where we share the legacy of women of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You’ll get to know the faithful women who shaped our past and also hear from inspiring women of faith today. I’m Karlie Guymon. SHALYN. And I’m Shalyn Back. We’re your co-hosts. Today we’re so excited to welcome Jane Clayson Johnson to the podcast. Jane, welcome. SISTER JOHNSON. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it, Karlie and Shalyn. SHALYNN. Well we’ve been really looking forward to this. Before we jump into the questions, we’d just like to briefly introduce our guest. Jane Clayson Johnson graduated from Brigham Young University with a degree in broadcast journalism and really used that degree. She went on to have a remarkable career as an award-winning journalist, widely known for her work at CBS News and ABC News. So many of our listeners will know her from her incredible work. She currently lives in Boston with her husband, Mark, and they have five children and three grandchildren. And Jane, as an international journalist, you used your skills recently to interview Latter- day Saints about depression and then wrote a book based on these interviews, and that book is called “Silent Souls Weeping: Depression—Sharing Stories, Finding Hope.” And Karlie and I were just fascinated that you interviewed 150 people to gather these stories that you then wrote about, and we’re so glad for this opportunity to hear what you’ve learned through your own experiences with depression that you’ve shared and also the unique © 2021 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Printed in the USA. English approval: 5/17. PD12345678 stories that came from your research. And we’ve just been really looking forward to this and think it will be really beneficial to so many of our listeners who are having similar experiences. We hear this kind of feedback a lot, or those who are supporting loved ones who may be struggling with mental health challenges as well, so again, we’re just so glad to have you. SISTER JOHNSON. Well, thank you. You know, so many people do struggle, and what I have learned is that so many people struggle and suffer in silence, and that’s really the reason that I wrote this book after my own experience with depression. But you know I give talks—or before COVID, I would give talks—and I would ask people in the room where I was giving a talk to stand if they or someone that they love suffered with depression or anxiety or other mental illness. And it didn’t matter if the group was 20 people or 2,000 people, 98 percent of the room stood up. And I believe with all my heart that everyone has a story, and if you’re not struggling with these issues yourself, you know someone or you live with someone who is. And so having these conversations and opening up the discussion, I think, is so important, so thank you for being willing to talk about these difficult issues, and again, thanks for having me today. KARLIE. Of course. SHALYN. Of course, and we appreciate your openness too. KARLIE. Thank you. And as you say that, I remember you saying in the book that I think they estimate one in five people in the United States suffer from mental illness. So when you think about a family or you think about a ward family, that’s a significant number of people. SISTER JOHNSON. Yeah. And it’s men, it’s women, it’s teenagers, it’s children. No one is spared from these challenges, and so I have special empathy also for © 2021 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Printed in the USA. English approval: 5/17. PD12345678 caregivers, people who have never experienced these issues themselves. And if you’ve never experienced it and you’re, for example, like my husband, someone who’s just steady and even going all the time, and your wife has a significant clinical depression, I think the inclination is to say, “Uh, what is your problem? You know, buck up. Life’s tough. There are lunches to make and kids to drive to school and work to get to.” And it’s hard. And so I think there needs to be a conversation so that we can overcome the stigma, we can understand the illness and help each other. KARLIE. Jane, as I read these stories that you’ve shared—and it’s been a couple of years now— through this process of meeting and hearing these most personal stories from 150 people, what are some of the things that still stand out in your mind, either memorable experiences or themes or takeaways that you just kind of want to shout from the rooftops? SISTER JOHNSON. Well, you know, I guess when I started my research, I didn’t really understand the magnitude of the problem. And so I myself went through a pretty severe clinical depression, and I didn’t want to talk about it and I didn’t want to open up about it because I was embarrassed about it and I was ashamed. And you know, I lived a pretty public life, and so I thought, Well, if I talk about this or reveal these secrets of my emotional state, what are people going to think? And after a significant amount of time in the struggle, and then when I slowly started to come out of it, I started to talk with other people about what had happened to me, and I started to realize how many people also had the same experience or similar experience. And so what I have learned, I guess, from the beginning of this till the end of where I am now and talking about it and having written a book about it and spoken to quite literally thousands of people about it is that we have to have the courage to confront the problem and be honest with ourselves about what it is. And I talk now very openly about brain health, about trying to reduce the stigma, and to help people understand that mental illness, it may be invisible, but it is no less devastating or painful than any other physical condition. And that’s really my message, and that’s what I have learned over the process of writing this book and certainly through my own journey. KARLIE. © 2021 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Printed in the USA. English approval: 5/17. PD12345678 And I really appreciated, as you emphasized over and over, that depression is a disease, it is an illness. I like how you say it. We’re talking about brain health here. It’s not a character defect, it’s not a spiritual deficit. And we’ll talk more about how there are unique challenges within our own Latter-day Saint community in how we talk about depression and deal with depression and mental health challenges. So thank you for sharing that. SHALYN. Well, Jane, I thought this was interesting from your personal story: you shared that it wasn’t until you were living your dream, in quotes, that you were diagnosed with depression. You were a wife and a mother, and you were also dealing with difficulties related to fertility, but I just think it’s so interesting that depression is no respecter of person. So it’s like when depression isn’t triggered by something traumatic, I imagine that it’s hard to reconcile feelings of I should be feeling grateful and I should be happy. Things are going well. I’m doing what I can to be a good person and to follow Jesus Christ. But then you have these feelings of excruciating depression and this feeling of debilitation, and so I think especially for members of the Church, when the gospel is about joy, but they’re not feeling joy, that’s a very difficult thing. And we wanted to know, how have you dealt with this or seen others deal with this type of dissonance? SISTER JOHNSON. Well, I think it’s a really important question. Let me share if you will, my story with you first because I think it’s illustrative of how difficult it is, to your point, to deal with this when you are feeling like you’d rather not be around anymore. I mean, I had had what I call situational sadness over the years, just the ups and downs of life. I’d had a successful career and had worked for many years and sort of at the highest levels and had traveled the world and done a lot of things and got married and started to have a family, and all of a sudden, I was just hit with darkness and sadness unlike anything I had ever experienced before. I mean, it was so unexpected and so harrowing, and I didn’t really know what was happening because I had never experienced these feelings before, but it was very physical for me. I use words like drowning and choking and sinking and suffocating. I mean, I just felt like someone had tied me up in a sack and thrown me in a dark, damp cave and I couldn’t get out, and it was dark and cold, and I was lonely and alone.
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